##VIDEO ID:Kz7rHXmCCIE## [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] got to keep the county running while you get [Music] David do I need to go by that clock I think it's 1:30 right mine should be accurate it's 131 ask Liam Liam are you ready [Music] oh my gosh it's awesome carbohydrates okay good afternoon everyone I'd like to call to order the Planning Commission meeting November 7th 2024 this time if we can all stand for a moment of silent in the Pledge of Allegiance Pledge Al to FL of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all Madam clerk can you call the rooll Christopher P John Moody here Matthew Ms here Derek potet here Chris Williams here Charles gr Vice chairman James here okay um the Planning Commission is appointed by the board of County Commissioners we meet twice a month Planning Commission holds public hearings and transmits to the board of County Commissioners recommendations on rezonings and conditional use requests the Planning Commission is the final decision making body for special exceptions shirt certain appeals variance requests and certain alternative standard requests however final decisions may be appealed to the board of County Commissioners the Planning Commission also serves as a local planning agency and as the LPA this body makes recommendations in regard to the consistency with the adopted Pasco County comprehensive plan of proposed comprehensive plan amendments and Land Development code amendments if anyone is in opposition to any comprehensive plan amend mment Land Development code Amendment rezoning conditional use or any item where the Planning Commission transmits a recommendation to the board of County Commissioners it is important that you attend the appropriate Board of County Commissioners meeting and if you got questions staff can help you direct you to the dates for the um upcoming board meetings for said items um before we get started uh I'd like to remind everyone please make sure you silence all electronic devices and for those who are attending virtually please mute mute your microphones while not speaking um there's no minutes to approve today um so I'm going to move on to the um public comment period if there's anybody here to speak to anything that's not on the agenda today now would be your time I want to go ahead before I a couple things before we start that um and this goes for any if you're speaking on any item when we request that when you address the Planning Commission and the LPA please do not direct comments at the planning directly at any of the commission members or team member but rather directed at the issues at hand this provides mutual respect between the commission members and the public okay and also if you plan to a couple things approve a publication first the items are advertised in Tampa Bay Times on August 21st and October 23rd 2024 and by certified mailing and postings okay thank you and if anybody here is planning to give testimony today please stand so you can be sworn do you swear orir the testimony you're about to give is the truth so help you okay so at this time um public comment for anything not on the agenda today when you come for when you come for please state your name and address for the record please my name is Michael pic 9152 Kenton Road this is not an agenda item do you have the uh PowerPoint flood regulations no I don't think so it's just a presentation you don't have to receive a file during public comment all right good afternoon gentlemen I'm speaking here for all of the residents of Pasco County all the frustrated residents the thousands of flooded out residents on east side of the county and there's an unfair situation that's been happening first I want to point out the 2024 Florida Statutes 163 3202 this specifically addresses Land Development regulations number two says local Land Development regulations shall contain at a minimum the use of land and water for those land use categories included in the land use element and ensure compatibility of adjacent uses this is the county organization in intergovernmental relations this is from the state this gives the issue to you not the state one of the main reasons here is to regulate areas subject to seasonal and periodic flooding and provide for drainage and storm water management I point that out because Pasco LDC or building code 1104 says the special flood Hazard areas of the county are subject to periodic inundation which may result in loss of life and property health and safety Etc disruption of Commerce of governmental Services extraordinary public expenditures for flood protection and relief and in the next section flood losses are caused by cumulative effects of obstructions and flood planes occupancy in flood Hazard areas by uses vulnerable to floods or hazardous to lands which are inadequately elevated flood proofed or unprotected from flood damages now the objectives here is to restrict use and minimize public and private losses due to flood conditions the third objective is to control the alter alteration between natural flood planes stream channels Etc I I I could read all of this to you but you have't FEMA says special flood planes are any area that has a 1% chance of flooding or a 100-year flood plane here's your FEMA definitions I also recognize Senate Bill 102 which is housing which is the live local act however the live local act while it says you cannot stop rezoning for residential of multifam it does not say in here that we have to roll over on flood plane management or storm water management plans for the properties I have been here for 5 years explaining to you guys we do not have a countywide flood management plan now your residents are about to have the Army Corps come in here and figure out how many bypass canals drainages pump stations it's going to take to fix the fact that since 2012 when the FEMA regulations were acknowledged and absorbed by the county the developers have not been Force to protect their neighbors adjacent uses is the current neighbors these developers by these definitions should be held to a 100-year storm because we need to understand that the 100-year storm does not come during the dry season it comes during the existing wet season so the ground is already saturated with water the water doesn't permeate I'm not going to insult you with pictures of developments we all know they go up 10 20 ft and you don't want to be their neighbor but the problem is this is the most sensitive piece of the connected City this is the ketton mpud this is the north part right here right here is where you're going to put a four-lane road and in that flooded section 106,000 ft of commercial this is dangerous where is the water supposed to go this right here to the right that little dry section is where the road's going to be this is from the south looking forward with your plans that have been submitted to you the red line is the edge of the four-lane paved Road in the easement all of the commercial is supposed to be on the south side of that red line the flooding that we had a couple of weeks ago on this topo map everything that has purple lines on it was flooded the flood waters went to 104.5 ft the red line is the edge of where the road's going to go the 106,000 ft of commercial is all in what flooded this is an issue now like it's never been before because of the media and because of emotions we don't want to stop development we don't want to stop future Neighbors from moving in we've been pleading with you for 5 years to please develop a countywide storm water management plan we need this before any more developments are allowed to come in increase density change comprehensive views or get elements of the current plans approved to benefit developers to make it cheaper or faster to build we need your help this is on behalf of all of your residents please meet us in the middle and protect us your current residents thank [Applause] you okay anybody from the Das want to adress that or well let me start by saying there's no obligation for you to address public comment but I mean if anybody wants to call comment they can it's up to you all may I ask the gentleman a question in your opinion what is a countywide storm water management plan our Land Development code contains storm water regulations which do regulate up to the 100-year flood Our Land Development code and the conditions of approval of all developments in this County require permits from the Water Management District whose regulations in 6233 also require management and storage of surface water storm water up to an including the 100-year flood and including Mitigation Of impacts to flood PLS so there are regulations in place that Florida Florida was one of the very first states in the United States to adopt a comprehensive set of storm water regulations we have some of the most stringent storm water regulations of any state in the country not saying we have the most but it's one of the most so I'm curious what is it that you have in mind for a plan there are regulations that do control to make sure that development does control storm water runoff so I'm curious what things do you think need to be added to those regulations thank you for the question and more importantly thank you for allowing me to answer because normally in public forum once once the 3 minutes is and thank you for allowing me to go past 3 minutes because these are very valid issues and we've got to start talking about them let me answer on on two fronts there the first is on very close to an agenda item I believe it's going to be the second one I'll be back up here speaking about it very close to that is the storm water Management Facility one of the issues that's very uh important right now is the king Lake uh drainage basin okay all of the homeowners on the west side are flooding out and all of those flood waters that you saw the next presentation we'll have pictures of 3 and 1/2 ft of water over our road nobody could get in or out the neighbors took care of neighbors okay caddy corner to that and before Elum was built we proposed doing doing an overflow to the Basin that would go to the storm Water Management Facility that in itself would have protected and captured the excess water and this connected City that we're putting into place by all means we could have put reclaimed water into the infrastructure and sold that water back to the residents and the businesses the reason I say it like that is because that drainage basin is a clay bottle there's no spring the water isn't going anywhere so all of the water that's captured there it's stuck it has to go somewhere when the agend item comes up I'm going to be able to show you where it's going to and the real issue with one of these projects but the the second issue and the frustrating part for us is every time I've been here to speak on on a new project the argument is given back to you well we're following State Building Codes State building codes are a minimum for the state Pasco County is a higher risk flood area because this was all cattle pastures this is cattle pastures and now we're putting high density developments on cattle pastures so when we cover the surface with non permeable roofs foundations driveways roads or the uh shedding of water into Retention Ponds there's a a capacity limit and the reason I say that is because the argument that's been given back to this board repeatedly this commission is well we're holding the 24-hour formula and developments have refused to exceed that to protect their neighbors from what we all know is really the 100-year storm during the wet season if we have three afternoons in a row of thunderstorms we all know there's water pillowing everywhere we'll take two days of Storms and then any rain event and the the reason I I wanted to point out the neighbors adjacent uses property Health life is because I have the exact number on my phone but fire rescue had to do 2,000 evacuations during Milton they had to do 188 rescues that has not only flooded out thousands of our neighbors which at this point in dat City and zhr Hills if it's our older population they're on fixed incomes their their house payments are low enough to where they can live the rest of their days they cannot afford the cost of new construction to rebuild and pay back loans at 6 and half% and live in those homes I have heard from countless homeowners that have now decided they're going to slap new drywall in and sell and they have to go somewhere else because they can't afford to rebuild what they had that's not fair to our current residents I understand the concern and we're all we're all very sympathetic to the flooding that resulted from the backto back hurricanes but to my question what what type of plan is it that you envision or would like to see the one thing I I practic storm water for a living okay and we follow those regulations and I've been doing this for 30 years what level is enough protection right now depending whether you're in an open drainage or Basin or a closed drainage basin the level of storm water protection is a 25-year 24hour storm or a 100-year 24hour storm or if you're familiar with the Florida Department of Transportation if you're draining into one of their facilities you're required to look at 48 different storm events all the way from the 2year 1hour storm to the 100-year 10day Storm at what level do you perceive is enough protection do we look at the the 100e storm the 500e storm the 1,000 year storm 40 days and 40 nights of rain and we gather up the animals and put them on the ark I'm not trying to be funny it's that we have to make a balance of what is an acceptable level of protection I'm not saying that the that the regulations that are in place provide enough or don't provide enough but I'm trying to get a a feel from you as to what you think is enough I'm sure that the community is going to have a discussion and a debate and probably the state is probably going to look back at its regulations and say well maybe we should be looking at not just 24hour events but multi-day events and I will tell you in my own experience it's not usually the one- day event that's a problem it's usually the three or four days in a of rain in a row you know we can have that or and unfortunately what we saw in Milton was rainfall amounts that came in an extremely short time so we talk about a 100-year storm in our area is generally 12 in of rainfall in a 24-hour period in Milton there were areas of the county that received 16 to 18 Ines of rainfall in a 4 to six hour period that's an unprecedented event that no one could have ever contemplated and I'm not suggesting the regulations can't be better but what level of protection is it that you think we need first off I want to thank you because you have always been um constructive and positive whenever I'm up here speaking with you guys so first off I want to say thank you okay because I believe a lot of these conversations are going to have to be constructive all right not you some of your peers in the past have asked me where I got my civil engineering degree from and I don't have one I'm not an engineer okay I am finished up my third master's degree and I've got a doctorate in common sense at this point okay well you're speaking intelligently about the subject accounts so um I try to bring some objective stance here okay Common Sense tells me that when the environment is changing okay that however it is we're looking at things maybe we should consider sliding that scale or making improvements if we have proof that what we are permitting developments to abide by is now threatening our current County now when I say that what what I'd like to give you as an example is I had several neighbors here all right before the hurricane just from two afternoons of ring what I want to tell you is this gentleman lost his foundation of his home and we didn't even see a hurricane that's just from afternoon thunderstorms we don't have to talk about a 100-year storm and I'm sure it's going to be a little emotional when we talk about uh Timber Pines because that one's going to have an effect on this gentleman but if we can give you examples currently that don't involve that hurricane or 12 or 16 or in 18 inches of rain we already know there's a problem and so I I really think think that it's time in a positive constructive way that maybe we need to re-evaluate the standards that we're holding new developments to because currently with what we're using they're flooding out their neighbors we've got linemen whose homes are still underwater that aren't even in a flood zone right behind the YMCA in zhr Hills we have residents that will not make it back to their homes to find out that they're never going to live in them again for two more weeks and while I com you're much smarter than I am with storm water much smarter than I am but that rain came in 4 to 6 hours many of these people didn't start flooding until 2 to 4 days later when that water stacked up that tells me that the 4 hours if it would have been over 12 hours or 24 hours was still the same amount of rainwater that flooded them out 2 3 4 days later so we're asking you please can we maybe tap the brakes on some development and figure out how to protect our current residents yeah I think the big thing to delineate between here is the event that we saw with the storms and what's happening obviously that's the most painful event at the Forefront of everyone's memories but you know again that's arguably one of those 100e storms or maybe even a 500e storm we don't know but I think think that the key is is to look at what was happening before then if if we are getting problems Within These developments on afternoon thunderstorms that's something that should be regulated and should be fixed you know although this is kind of a painful subject right now because of the storms it's probably not a good example to use when it comes to talking about what's happening um because a lot of what happened with that storm you just couldn't design for if you could it would make development so expensive that nobody could buy the homes yes sir and again just as an example for the everyday the everyday example um out of the last what 8 weeks our road has uh and it's a very used Public Road okay our road's been washed out all but maybe 10 days in the last eight weeks okay still I got yeah so the the there's parts of the county where regardless of hurricanes part of what's going on right now is the Watershed from other basins that are you know it takes a long time for that water to move through a fat flat piece of land out to the gulf and so that's that's why we're seeing that because there's so much rain that was dumped on the and it may call for drainage canals it may call for Pump Station those are other places deal with this so those well but those are interesting Concepts so back in the 1960s the Army Corps of Engineers and it's infite wisdom decided it was going to drain the swamp land in Florida too and it came it straightened out to CMI River and we managed to dehydrate and destroy the Everglades yes sir okay now we've just paid billions of dollars to put all the curves back in the cimi river at one time the brilliant Army Corps of Engineers came in to decided we're going to up near englas dig a canal across the State of Florida so that we can cut barge traffic through okay and what what what was the result of that saltwater intrusion into the Florida and aquifer so I'm not convinced that the Army Corps of Engineers is Pasco County's great savior or that and I would tell you that current current federal and state regulations don't actually allow us to do projects like straightening out the CMI River or to dig drainage canals if I don't know if you you're familiar with the drainage in South Florida there's a the south Florida Water Management District is a series of canals that lead from those swamps out into the Atlantic Ocean you couldn't get a permit today you couldn't get a federal permit today to do something like that so although I hear you and it may be what we maybe perceive as common sense there are still federal laws that prohibit us good Lord this County took 14 years to get a permit to build from the Army Corps of Engineers to build Ridge Road it's longer than that it's close to 20 years it's close to 20 years they're not I think the point I'm trying to make is I know we want to get rid of the water and it sounds like digging a giant ditch out to the gulf is the most expeditious way we achieve getting rid of the water but trying to get permits and approvals for these things are not something that's simple it takes millions and millions of dollars and sometimes decades to try to do um so I just they're not there are not any simple easy answers are there things that we can do to try to reduce storm water runoff sure maybe we can require less impervious surface and more green space but you know we all create to storm water runoff too how many of your neighbors move into a subdivision vision and they've got a 60t wide lot and we're in here debating the width of lots all the time and they've got a two-car garage and then they've got two high school students with cars now all of a sudden I need to widen my driveway and I concrete my driveway or when I moved into that subdivision I didn't have a swimming pool and then I put in a swimming pool in a big concrete deck around there I didn't have sidewalks around the side of my house and now I paved the side of my I go into neighborhoods like golf harbors and people have pavers from their house all the way out to their neighbors property line and the next neighbors put papers in all the way on their side of the house all this stuff contributes to storm water runoff too so it's something that we all have to be aware of every every time each of us creates an impervious surface we're adding to that problem I'm not telling you that development doesn't contribute storm water runoff but we all do it's just like we all generate traffic and we all generate waste water so everybody needs to keep that in mind too when we want things of convenience around our own homes but I'll be looking forward to the discussion on the mpud that's on the agenda I had planned on pulling that and I have questions about the storm water too so I'm sure we'll have a nice discussion thank you thank you for bringing top sir one piece of advice yes sir if you give the speech to the board don't suggest the Pasco County's role over on the live local act because so what I I couldn't hear you I'm sorry you made a comment oh about live local yeah I don't have your full presentation but probably pull it back up you reference the live local act in your present we're taking live local very seriously u i and I maybe maybe repeat your comment I don't forgot what you said about it but it sound like you were suggesting the Pasco County is rolling over for no no no not no not on any level I understand that's a very suggesting that Al the live local it shouldn't be it shouldn't allow developers to roll us on storm water protection is all I said I didn't yeah just I that's probably your point but I just so you know Pasco County is not allowed a single live local act project period Then I applaud Pasco County and Pasco County yeah in fact our board is threatened to sue any developer that tries to use it and and you know that I'm in those meetings also I I applaud Pasco County for fighting him for many reasons for many reasons but it is still State Statute and um the issue is it it doesn't tell the county they have to approve the development plans as submitted if it doesn't handle its I agree that even a live local project would have to comply with our stor mod regulations but it scares a lot of people but my only point is that they'd have to get in the door to even invoke the LI I mean to even submit a project to have that be a problem and Pasco County is not even letting them in the door so just by way of knowledge or just my is L if I were giving this presentation I'd stay away from that I'd just focus on the storm water stuff there's a lot of residents that have been uh told by uh County Representatives that that's one issue that the county is handcuffed on and it it has given to many of us it has really given the image that um the county doesn't have a choice to to roll but to roll over on it and I but I I do I applaud the county for everything it's doing on that issue I've been here I've I've heard commissioner waitman talk about it I know how passionate he is about it um and I applaud the bccc and the county as a whole for that um because we do need employment and we need other issues besides just high density housing okay I I wasn't sure how much of an understanding you had about it since you brought it up but sounds like you do so thank you sir I just like to add that you're obviously involved and paying attention as a l of other people that are here as well Pasco County's in the process of updating the storm water master plan that they've got which is through public works as a consultant doing it and just looked at the scope of that it does include watershed management plan project review so that's looking at the schedule I think it's July next year supposed to be the when they bring the results of that to the public given what has happened in the middle of the study I'm sure the board's going to be more critical of that study but keep an eye on that too is input there is going to be you know I think invaluable so could I make a suggestion especially with the Pasco connected City many of us feel uh and I've had County Representatives also say this okay that there's so much happening and so many approvals and so many zoning amendments and so many individual projects that the project as a whole has literally uh morphed all over the place and we've collectively lost sight of the project as a whole making sure that everything um works with everything and if there's I mean if if I could just make a suggestion for those that are involved with the Pasco connected City it is far beyond time to have an actual public workshop on that project because when that project was originally brought to the Planning Commission and went to the the national level to present and get its pretty Awards it was supposed to be a community that would make Lake Javita jealous and I'm watching and I'm seeing a heck of a lot of warehouses and light industrial that keeps being put in these zoning amendments and warehouses don't look to me like the South Tampa project we were we were promised they just don't when when the connected city turns into 2 million square ft of distribution space that tells me semi-rs heavy lifting and moving of things it doesn't reflect in my mind the South Tampa vibe that was going to make Lake Chita jealous Michael just to keep things moving if we connected City if we can just table we're going to talk about that here at length here and real shortly when we get to item I will tell you that some of your comments right are issues that are going to get discussed in that particular project good and thank you and we do appreciate you coming out today thank you okay is there anybody else here for public comment on anything not on the agenda Nancy Hazelwood 34110 a nice place I want to Echo the gentleman is up here I think he has some important points I'd like to say it might be prudent at this time to put some applications on hold until we figure out exactly where that flooding would go and to your question about what we can do me maybe we need committees together with Swift Mud and our County to figure out what it is or maybe we need to not develop in those places that we are needing that are flooding right now I know some of these places have flooded three or four times and that should be a clued also uh this if you did that I think it would show your citizens how much all the boards in Pasco County do care about them thank you okay thank you I'll arm wrestle you for it come on Le I'm ready 1 16 331 Iola woods trail and I want to Echo some of what Michael said um it appears we keep saying every year this is unprecedented this is unprecedented this is unprecedented and yet every year it keeps happening that it's unprecedented I believe that maybe what we need to do is look at what are happening with our weather weather patterns it seems like we are entering a new cycle of weather patterns I know that they do go in Cycles although I'm not a weather expert um and some of the things that we have used as our ordinances and regulations and our codes are not keeping Pace with what is happening with our planet basically and when we we were talking just a little bit earlier you were talking with Michael about you know yeah it's a 100-year storm it's a 500e storm he was talking also about people that went through Debbie and took a lot of water and their house floated off their foundation and that isn't a cause of the Hurricanes we also are looking at you know yeah the folks on the west coast took it hard with um colen and we took the brunt of Milton but in between those two things you know it doesn't all get lumped together and we've seen the water trying to figure out how to get home and it can't find its way home because we've changed the topography we've changed the way that water moves if you look at it as almost like a capillary system we've completely cut off a lot of the capillaries we're also damaging our Wetlands those are our kidneys for our aquafer so we're creating tons and tons of problems because we're moving so fast and so I would hope that you would consider recommending that we slow down our growth I know I said that all throughout my campaign I'm going to say it again we need to slow the irresponsible growth because everything's being looked at and as it comes to you in isolation and instead of being able to see the larger picture of what's happening and how it's impacting all the way around we just keep saying oh this project okay yeah this project okay yeah but we aren't looking at the big picture and that's what's going to trip us up so I thank you for your time thank you uh my name is Rodrigo helveston 11341 Rosier Lane uh basically the same thing you know it just seems like you guys keep building on top of places that are used to drain the water out and you guys don't think there's any correlation or what can we do about it when you know we had 2004 there was four hurricanes in a row and it never never freaking flooded like it did now and so it's basically the same thing you know just like everybody saying like are you guys going to slow down what are you guys going to do like it just seems simple that you know they've been building more in the past three years in the past 20 years and you guys don't find that there's a correlation with it with the flooding so that's about it thank you okay thank you okay is there anybody else excuse me chairman I just want to note we did have somebody signed up virtually for public comment but they are not on so I just wanted to noted that okay thank you okay well that's everybody now we will move on to the public hearing portion of the agenda uh for those of you not familiar with our meeting agendas we do the agenda is broken down into three parts first part is um items for continuance those are items that are going to be pulled by either the applicant or by staff and will be heard at a later date we also have consent items and then we have regular item portion of the agenda um just a reminder inperson participants and participants attending through WebEx including the applicant who have pre-registered for the Planning Commission meeting will be notified by County staff when they will be permitted to speak applicants will be limited to 5 minutes and other participants will be limited to 3 minutes unless additional time is approved at least 24 hours in advance of the meeting I don't think we have anybody just a reminder imperson participants and WebEx participants must announce their name address and acknowledge if they've been sworn before speaking and then the three or five minute timer we'll start today I think we have one uh consent item I'm sorry one continuance item and the meeting was advertised as two consent items but I think one of those is going to be pulled so um Liam you want to go through the [Music] agenda yes Li Divine Planning Development and economic growth Department um before actually begin I do have some housekeeping the cover sheet for your agenda packet today did need to have a correction under staff um removing Denise Hernandez the zoning administrator and replacing it with Patty Chris Yingling Planning Commission agenda coordinator um to begin with um the first item if you're ready yes pc1 pde 25773 it is a zoning Amendment um in the name of Evans county line 80 mpud master plan unit development property Inc this is a request to continue to the item to January 9th um 2025 at 1:30 in Dade City okay is the applicant present is there anybody else here to speak on this item move to continue item pc1 to the January 9th meeting in here in date City second okay there's a motion in a second any other discussion all in favor I post motion carries PC2 PD e 25765 in the name of Tall Timbers MPD will be pulled and then PC3 pde oh sorry let me correct myself PC3 you'll be sitting as the local planning agency pde 25-44 it's a development agreement in the name of Wiregrass mpud Master plane unit development ckb Development LLC it's proposed is to modify the existing development agreement for the Wiregrass mpud and that's coming with a recommendation for approval okay is the applicant present anybody here to speak on this item okay I move approval of the consent agenda P3 all right most than a second any other discussion all in favor I I oppose motion carries okay clarify it's a consent agenda made up of only PC three since we pulled PC2 okay so back to PC2 good afternoon Gavin Kobi Planning Development and economic growth this is pde 27615 the tall timers mpud and so this is a zoning Amendment rezoning from an AC agricultural District to a cc PUD connected City master plan unit development uh to allow for 380 multif family dwelling units and 180,000 Square ft of non-residential uses and Associated infrastructure on approximately 38 acres this is located at the northwest corner of the intersection of K road and tendle road so here's a general location map uh within the county and then here's a location map within connected City you can see that it's in the orange area which is in the community Hub but directly adjacent to the urban core which is uh intended to be a downtown area in the future looks like North is to the left yeah the way that the exhibit is made is horizontal so that's correct uh here's a location map for you here's a current zoning which is AC here's a context map to the north is a portion of the marada MPD to the West is a Pascal County facility and to the South is the K MD which was referenced earlier uh during discussion then here is the uh mpud master plan and just to note a couple of design features that have been included with the mpud um 41 of the town homes are intended to be reloaded um there is a maximum 10t setback in the mix use area to make sure that the building orientation is along uh the future Kenton and Timber Run uh with parking in the back um um and then in the mix use area as well uh 12,000 ft of non-residential uses are intended to be vertically integrated in mixed use with the apartments and then lastly this is The Binding concept plan and PDD is asking for a recommendation of approval with conditions to the board of County Commissioners G can you go back to the binding concept absolutely we haven't seen this before B in an mpud wherein they provide a binding concept plan with this level of detail and I'm not saying I'm opposed to that but what does that mean what what are the obligations of the developer in this binding concept plan yeah so I think the intent is to show some of the negotiated building conditions I described earlier and to have a general idea of what the development will look like in the future um PD understands that not everything is going to look exactly the same as in this concept plan but we do want to have a general idea of what the development is going to be looking like in the future so let me ask this question so this part of connected city has requirements for mixed use uh so part of connected city is requiring a distance requirement between certain amount of uh uses within a certain area so that is is correct uh in terms of a distance requirement but not necessarily specifically said that this area must have vertically integrated mixed use Apartments is the amount of traffic in this mpud in other words I the question is the traffic study requires certain Improv movements and that's predicated on having a certain amount of office and a certain amount of mixed use correct so there uh in the TR Transportation study they basic they didn't use a mixed use analysis they just did Apartments U the mixed use is actually a lower trip generation than if it were just standard Suburban um retail or commercial or office even and is there any requirement on the developer to build the mix fixed use or the office before the town homes or vice versa no there's no uh requirement like that and what if they can't build the mixed use or the office um then they would come in for a substantial modification we could talk about you know modifying The Binding concept plan and the conditions of approval at that time okay if I could just answer I think Gavin's mostly answered the question but yeah on a binding concept plan I think the thought process is that if what they end up building or coming in for site plan approval if it's materially different from what you see here it would have to go through the substantial modification process basically the new resoning process come back to the Planning Commission come back to the board of County Commissioners I think that's what I was trying to get at and then I'll explain later as we get now there is a condition I think it's the last this is the last correct this the last condition that says that staff has a certain amount of delegated authority to to approve minor modifications to the plan but it has to substantially comply with the with what you see okay otherwise it's basically coming back through the zoning process got which is a departure from some historical practice where we tended to get more bubble plans right that's and and there would be no need to go back through the zoning process because it's just a bubble PL this isn't quite pmer site plan level but it's getting close to pmer site plan level of detail okay that's all great explanation of it thank you yeah get real real quick sorry looked down and you walked away when when stuff like this comes on on these bigger plans that are part of like some of the bigger community Village of Pasadena Hills connected City Etc is it possible to get some of this detail that's in your presentation included in the agenda packet and the reason I'm asking that is is I mean we're we're kind of looking at I saw the agenda and I saw this I kind of see the the snapshot of here's this project but not anything really in relation to overall connected City so I mean if I know it would help me personally if we could include some information on you know the surrounding I mean some of these maps and stuff you had in your presentation are good just in that information in the agenda that would really help course yeah I can absolutely do that and provide a general connected City kind of descript at least a little bit that's right little background thank you so one other question too the wetlands on the property how is the classification determined I believe in their in their natural resource study they are all found to be Category 3 um think is that what you're asking well I understand that but how how was that determination made I believe through the use of Pascal mappa in our natural resources department so I'm not trying to do we have here what the definitions of the different categories of wetlands are in our comp plan I believe they're in the LDC well they're know they're in the comp plan but do we have those available is there someone they can pull those up there's some on here that I believe are class three Wetlands or Category 3 Wetlands there's others that I think might meet other definitions in code I see that there's connectivity of wetlands here that they're not just isolated MH and that gives me some concern yeah the other thing that I have some concern about and we'll ask the developer is in the mpud master plan that's in our packet it lists the acreage of wetlands it lists them all as Category 3 I'm not sure I agree that they're all Category 3 but there's no wetlands in the post development condition this developer is proposing to Blitz all of these we wetlands and I understand that under our code you might be able to Nuke a cat 3 Wetland I'm not sure you can nuke a cat one or two Wetland so how do we get verification that all of these wetlands are actually Category 3 wetlands and the other thing I'll say is this Although our comprehensive plan may allow it I'm not sure you're going to get a permit from the Water Management District to do that okay because there's some tests that you have to meet when you have a wetland impact right and the the Water Management District rules recognize that sometimes I may need to affect a little corner of a wetland or that a wetland may be so small that it has no substantive environmental or biological or hydrologic value but somehow I'm looking at this aerial photograph and I'm not thinking that these wetlands have zero hydrologic value or that someone's actually going to get a permit to be able to just Blitz these wetlands and that's why I asked about the binding concept plan so The Binding concept plan so shows that I'm going to attempt to turn these Wetlands into giant storm water ponds I'm not 100% sure that someone's actually going to get a permit so what happens if they don't get a permit to do that as far as this entitlement goes because that binding concept plan shows those are going to be storm water plans or ponds I'm sorry excuse me we do have Jackie Jordan from natural resources online I I don't know if she can answer some of those questions about whether category 1 Category 2 Category 3 and we did pull up the comp section for you okay so the categories talk about isolated Wetlands I mean I can see in the aerial photograph the hydrologic connections I'm not sure these wetlands are isolated do they are they less than 5 Acres let's see I think about 20 or 30% of this site was Wetland when I looked at that table according to Pesco map are they're all category three yeah but that's somebody entered something in the gis and that doesn't mean they were a wetland [Applause] expert I think we should Jackie Jackie are you there yes I am hear yes okay afterno with paral resources department so when we so we did do some historic a reviews and it looks like some of those systems were ditched together so that's kind of how we make our determine it's not it's a man-made connection versus a natural um historic connection so we did make an initial determination that they were all Category 3 Wetlands um which would be anything under five five acres or less but Jackie just clarify further analysis and consideration will be given to those during the site plan review correct correct we require the um actual approved Swift Mud delineation at time of site plan submitt and per the LDC Category 3 and two wetlands are able to be impacted as long as they receive their appropriate State approval yes yeah I understand that I'm just not sure they're actually going to get a state approval to like I said I don't think anybody has a problem with a third of an acre Wetland that's been highly impacted over the years versus something that's a two or three acre Wetland that actually does have some substantive hydrologic function and I'm not seeing that the concept plan submitted by the developer recognizes that hydrologic function I recognize it's going to get reviewed later but I'm hesitant to Grant an entitlement for something that actually cannot be achieved okay but if it can't be achieved don't they don't they just adjust their plan they can only do what they want I mean do what they can well so that goes back to my question about the binding concept plan so okay now they go to Swift Mud and Swift Mud says no you're not going to Blitz that Wetland and turn it into into a a storm water Pond then is this entitlement that we're evaluating here still valid so to a certain extent staff has discretion as I mentioned earlier to determine what is a substantial modification from The Binding concept plan I suspect and Patrick can address this but if if what was located in that area was a if it just remained a wetland and not a storm water Pond and it wasn't affecting the development layout of the rest of their site staff may determine that's not a substantial sure change to because it's a wetland now instead of a storm water Pond um now if that caused them to completely redo the layout of all their residential units now concern then then it is a potentially a substantial modification but that's something St has a certain amount of discretion to determine right and so this is all asked in the context of that there's now something we haven't seen before and that's the binding concept plan yeah can we make a condition that it has to come back here well if it's if they change a binding concept plan it's going to have to come back here that that was kind of the point is that okay his now that's a substantial amendment to their mped and they're going to have to bring the Revis plan back here and to board of County Commissioners or Patrick has something else he wants to add are we required to make the plan finding at this point well there's nothing okay this is a little bit of a touchy subject um the board has expressed an interest in particularly with NPS that the plans that are shown to them pretty picture so to speak end up being what actually gets built um and so there's been some concerns in the past that the developer shows pretty pictures and saying these These are the this is my wonderful layout that I'm going to do here and then what gets on the ground is completely different so um that's what I think the board is trying to achieve by requiring these concept plans to be binding subject to minor modifications that may be made at Ty so um yes there is there is more a risk when you have a binding concept plan that if if somebody got the wetlands wrong or the storm water wrong or I mean they're going to have to do a little more engineering on a b you know make sure they got it right on a binding conso plan or they risk having to come back to can can I give an example if I might and Gavin could you put the the oh you've got the plan back up here or can we go back to there there's in our packet there there's a wetland and flood plane exhibit there there is one in the developers mpud master plan so in the northwest corner of the property oh are we able to bring that up patties there's a there's a wetland and flood plane exhibit in the mpud master plan yeah I think it showed the acreages right yeah but I and I'll show you where I'm going with this you just just while there's some some dead time uh Patrick D assistant director of planning Services uh I got up to say basically what David was going to say but he did it much more eloquently than I could so he he usually does he usually does so uh no additional comment at this time thanks for being here though Patrick I me could could you condition it that the concept plan is binding pending state or S but approval well I mean so and I'm not understanding what the delay is it's in the agenda packet but the in the developers mpud master plan document that's attached to our agenda packet there is a wetland and flood plane exhibit and it shows a substantive amount of wetland and flood plane at the northwest corner and the southwest corner of the property yet their master plan shows those being a well and if you look at that's that's not the exhibit I'm referring to but this one yes okay so the dark blue line represents flood plane area the light blue lines represent Wetland area so their master plan shows an intense office development and an intense mixed use development at the North northwest corner and the southwest corner of the property all right parking lot lot of impervious well in order to accomplish that that means I need to fill that flood plane and Blitz those Wetlands they may or may not and I doubt they will actually get permits to do that when I look at the extent of the flood plane and then I look at the amount of storm water Pond shown on the master plan I'm going well where are you mitigating all of these flood plane impacts so that's why I was asking about if there was an obligation to actually do a mixed use and do a mixed office because I'm not sure you're going to get the approval to do these things so and does that end up constitute end up constituting a substantive deviation from that binding concept plan I'm not sure that they're going to get a permit to turn the Wetland now the Water Management does allow you to use use isolated Wetlands for water quality treatment that's something that's legal but that's different than dredging out the entire Wetland and trying to turn it into a storm water base well that was one of my questions if we can you scroll to the sheet before that I think the sheet before that's got delineated Wetlands on a survey map that don't what I was looking at before I I want to but it's not just the M it's not just the amount of wetlands it's the amount of flood plane our code and the Water Management District rules also the section 1104 that the gentleman referenced earlier require compensation for impacts to flood planes there's no flood plane compensation areas shown on these Master plans maybe they intend to do that in the storm water Pond and I'm not saying that it's a reason to deny a permit if they can't because you can't get a a permit to do this or I'm saying I'm sorry it's not a reason to deny the entitlement because you can't get a permit to do this my question is this asked in the concept of in the context of a binding concept plan well is that a substantive issue that you can't get a permit to actually build that mixed use building or that office building or to put Town Homes down the middle if you go back to their concept plan had town homes and a row of town homes going east and west that are going right through the middle of that flood plane and those wets so I'll let Patrick collaborate but I'll try to give you what I think the answer is um I suspect if they were generally in accordance with the binding concept plan but if there were portions of this project that simply just didn't get developed at all okay because they were in the flood plane in a wetland but the remainder of the development followed the binding concept plan staff may well determine that's not a substantial change because the in any of the built areas it followed the binding concept plan and so so I'm not sure that andless Patrick has a different opinion now the one exception would be if it's an employment site that was promised to get credits in Connected City because there's a requirement in Connected City to get credits for the roadway construction you have to set aside a minimum 4 ACR site for employment uses which there's this service ready site that's the service ready site acreage if that entirety of that area was undevelopable and they never built it I'm not sure that it would be a basis to say that they departed from The Binding concept plan but it might be a basis to say they wouldn't get any credits for the road construction now in this particular project I'm not sure they're seeking any credits anyway I don't remember if this one that's a Gavin okay so so maybe that's not an issue um in this project but that's the only time I could think of that if a site was sort of reserved for employment as a promise to get something and then it that Reserve site ended up being entirely undevelopable it may cause issues that might be considered a substantial change or a basis to deny them credits because they never they didn't give us the employment area that we were promised understand but but if it's not putting aside that issue I believe that if the rest of the project that was developable followed the binding concept plan and they left the flood plane areas and Wetland areas as just blank or undeveloped my guess is the staff would still say that's consistent with the binding concept plan in other words the areas they developed as long as that was consistent with the binding concept plan they'd probably say that's not a substantial amendment is that accurate Patrick am I tell me if I'm wrong no I I'd agree with you okay thank you okay um is the applicant present to speak at this time or good afternoon thank you Shelley Johnson 6400 Madison Street and I have been sworn I'm just here to answer any questions so if anybody has any questions I'll be happy to answer them but I we did hear you loud and clear and understand what you're talking about it's it wasn't a statement or a position I was trying to understand the function of the binding concept yeah yeah and we understand you know the discussion in regards to you know if it's a subst I mean we're going to do whatever we're required to do so thank you okay thank you okay now uh public comment um anybody here to give public comment I think Liam do you want to call them an order that they signed up or do you want to just let them come up Liam the first one sign up is David Torino okay okay so then Michael you're back yes sir this is the one that counts and I understand the 3 minutes there is a couple of points of uh information because the information on their application does not meet the uh grading plan for the adjacent property where the roads are going to go which will have an effect on the storm water so all of this is going to be objective I've got about 20 seconds of subjective but there's uh a lot of objective here to share with you so this is a picture of um of the site you can see this is from all of these uh aerial photos are from this morning so they're all current there's nothing in the past the aerial they used is actually in the dry season and just remind you on this parel 380 multif family dwelling units and 180,000 Square ft plus parking on 38 acres this is the site plan they showed you it's pretty it's got colors none of the wetlands here's your topo map now if you type into Google the address to get there Direction you can see on the left that's a lake you guys are way smarter than me on the right is the topo map with your Wetlands that's the aerial that they showed us the aerial they showed us here's your flood plane 380 multif family dwelling units and 180,000 ft plus parking on that flood plane if we back out a little bit you can see the top boat from the West the Northwest the north the Northeast and the East all falls into this bottom that should be very important because this bottom receives all of the water from marada from the county site your next development to the Northwest which is 2017 18 ft higher than this piece of property and then everything on the east side these pictures are from this morning every one of those Wetlands currently holds water every one of them we haven't seen rain since the hurricane they are all holding water again the topo map with the level three and the level one and a on it this water collects here and then it moves on to the neighboring properties the adjacent properties so if you look at the site plan and that office building with all of its parking is right on that Lake it holds water most of the year the mixed use is on the southwestern Corner this is the adjacent property and the point of information the grading plan from this project right here which was submitted in July of 24 here's a copy of it does not show their road going at a Southeastern diagonal across this property that Road's going to go straight to the east on the top or north side of that thick red line if we back out what you see is this Basin drains to the south on the left side of the existing tendle Road it then goes back into and pillows in the Kenton mpud which is the rectangle there and if we back out again you'll see that in the left picture that Basin where the red wetlands are flows into the first level and that encapsulates the Lake View Estates if we zoom in on the right this is your current flood zones and you can see how close it gets to all of the residentials some of these homes flooded out in the last hurricane but this is existing without pushing that water without shedding it somewhere else the level of risk for the entire development there for Lakewood Estates that's the topo map for it so the proper property we're talking about is 104 ft these homes are at 104 ft 103 ft this is where the water is going to go Michael I need you to try to wrap it up yes sir so let me give you just a little bit of the subjective here this is the bottom for the whole connected City this is the second most important piece of property for the whole development this is the where the water pools and starts at for the whole drainage B B West of Kenton the whole connected City what we've been given and that's uh looking to the north at this property it would be irresponsible to move this project anywhere close to what it is right now on for the bccc to see this entire piece of property floods continuously there's nowhere for the water to go and the wetlands have got to be protected the whole connected City here we're still not seeing where the parks are going to go we're still not seeing where any green space is going to go outside of private parks for the individual developments this would be a prime piece of property to put an actual connected City Green Space so that everybody can enjoy it as a county let's buy it from the owner but to put an mpud here where all it's going to do is Blitz or nuke the wetlands and move the water on to flood the neighbors down stram is irresponsible okay thank you next Jennifer McCarthy hello hello Jennifer McCarthy 8819 Kenton Road so this has been a long decade because I've been talking about the connected City since 2013 I've gone through Matt Armstrong Ernie Monaco and Gavin really nice guy doesn't have a whole lot of experience we need to get way more experienced Personnel on this project it's it's it's a gimmick and it's been peacee it's not a cohesive image this should be a cohesive image it should be something for the county and it's not it's not driving anything you got erson with it's $60 a day to go into a lagoon okay that's great but there's nothing like Bonnet Springs part there's nothing that's exciting about it and there's never going to be anything exciting about it it's all if all you guys do is have houses and warehouses here so I mean I I live on Kenton Road so obviously I wanted to see an area that we were able to live wear everything with everything coming through and now we're I I think on this partial it said that there would be you know up to 60t apartments on that um I mean I I live on a 10 AC parcel so you talk about okay we have storm water and we have this I do way less impact on the environment than any of of this and I pay for it I pay a lot of money taxes on that land to not have the kind of effect that other that these areas are having um but I did want to talk about the flooding in the specific area that you now have the ability to control we have evidence not just from the recent hurricanes but from the afternoon storms from the past couple years not just this year year after year CU I run up and down Kenton Road during my lunch break and I am running through water so I am gross gross water um you know i' I've tried sping speaking with Swift Mud and they say hey we're following the state laws so and earlier you said that hey you're following the state guidelines but here's my issue we know that the Kenton parcel FAA that's already been approved and that Timber Pines flood so you have the ability now to resolve this specific area of known concern turn before you approve the development and truly like have an everlasting negative effect on this area when you're looking on curly road on the east side of curly road all the cow pastures they look like cow pastures when you look at Timber Lakes when you're walking on that road it looks like Wetlands so whether or not it says three it does not look like a cow pasture it looks like Wetlands 10 years ago when I used to horseback ride through there there'd be there's Gators so they're coming I mean this area it's been like this for for decades it's had water for decades um I mean the other thing is just is just a connected City there's there's no Community there's no innovation I mean there was supposed to be a Innovation Area Community Hub uh this I mean there there's there's not um traffic is is beyond ridiculous now so I mean for Years everybody said Wesley Chapel is going to be the new Brandon when it comes to traffic and it is we are sitting in two lights for two to three times my kid because now there's no transportation to and from a lot of these schools we are I am she is in the vehicle almost 2 hours a day going back and forth to school and one activity that's all located in the Wesley Chapel area my six-year-old two hours a day in a car I mean it's just not the life that I thought was going to be here things that used to take five minutes take 20 minutes now um I I mean it's just it's it it's really disheartening because I've lived in Pasco County for decades and I'm I'm not old right I've lived in Pasco County for decades and I've seen I remember with the JC Penney sitting there Road to Nowhere I mean i' I've seen all of this and the last five years it is so sad what the what I've seen it's just not no nobody wants it that is is living here to the extent that is happening so you know like everybody else I think we need to stop approving the new development until we already know that there's tens of thousands of approved developments and housing that are already approved why don't we let some of this happen and see what's going to what what do we actually need here I mean we're approving something where Kenton Road hasn't been appr we have you have Kenton Road you have the the property right here you have the FAA you have the you you have five areas that are already approved that haven't been built you have no idea the impact on it and it's I don't know so I I I just I I I don't believe that this should be approved I think this is going to have a negative impact on the on water on flooding on traffic I don't see how that amount of homes is going to only generate 70 students towards our school because that's what it says in the in the amend in the in the agenda I mean I it just doesn't no nothing seems okay nothing seems right so got it appreciate you coming out thank you thank you that was our last member of the public who has signed up okay so no other public comment the applicant like to come back up I can answer a couple of the questions um as far as storm water obviously whatever regulations are in place at the time when this comes in for construction plan um and permits and that it'll have to comply with whatever those regulations are if they're more stringent at the time than so be it I you know I'm sensitive to you know I live in Pasco County I have for many years so I'm sensitive to what I'm hearing I've had people that have been impacted by flooding so you know I can appreciate where everybody's coming from um so I do know that that would be something they would have to do as far as the actual plan itself it is consistent with what this particular area this community Hub calls for in regards to where this property's at um I think that's why planning staff has supported it because you know it does have that that mix of non-residential uses their vertical integrated uses you know they want that um there is non-residential on the property but it's you know it's part of a a larger hole in terms of that that planning area and connected cities and and um you know I do I do know the plan complies with the goals and objectives for that particular Community how it's located so but I will more than answer questions so can I ask you a question Char I get your point I I might and I realize you're not seeking credits but to a certain extent when the board approves a mixed use project mhm the carrot for the board is the non-residential portion of the imput mhm they sometimes they only allow the residential because they're getting the non-residential mixed use portion of the mut to Mr Moody's point do you all really feel that that portion of the imput is developable given the flood plane and Wetland locations on this site and I can't answer that question there was a wetland delineation done on this site um Swift mut has it was approved inspected it was flagged in the field build um unfortunately one my understanding is these wetlands and I I think that's maybe what the county um expert is like also kind of coming to the conclusion on is they're unfortunately already contaminated um and so that's why they've all they're all getting flagged as class 3es by the the by Swift Mud by you know the Wetland delineation that was done I think by what the county is seeing so I do think that property can be developed um but again if it can't then yeah I mean if we have a substantial modification and we're we're there's something that they're proposing where it's going to throw it out of consistency with the goals and objectives of the complain I think that you know they they're going to have to come back and revisit it I guess what I'm for sure let me ask a question different way did because in theory you could have put the employment uses in the Upland portion of the site or the part that's clearly Uplands M but you put the residential there so I guess did staff tell you to kind of Orient the uses the way that it's oriented where the non-residential is all on the on the west side where the wetlands and flood plane is or is that something you all chose to do I mean I don't know the answer to that um because I'm not I I'm not the engineer so I didn't lay it out um my my understanding is it's been reviewed by staff this is you know what they're comfortable with again they're class three Wetland so my understanding is you know they're they're going to be impacted and mitigated for um now I'm not an engineer whe whether that's can be accomplished I don't know but um well I don't think it's just the wetlands it's also the flood plane you'd have to mitigate so let me just ask staff the question would you support would staff have supported this MPD if the non-residential portion ends up being not developable because it's in wetlands and flood plan so the uh srsa site and the office site is actually not a requirement for this project that was something that was negotiated for specifically um is just underneath the threshold for that um office srsa site um so I could see either way um staff is always just looking for employment generating uses whenever possible so are you saying that even if only the residential portion of this MPD were built you would still support it I personally would support it cor correct yes yeah but not you personally does I'm asking does the planning department support the I mean I I understand that you always want mixed use and you always wanty I'm not my question is on this particular project was that important to your recommendation of approval that they have this employment and mixed use portion of the imput uh Patrick D planning Services uh I don't think it was necessarily vital um of course it's great when we get mixed use development we always look for that um but I don't think it was necessarily vital for this area this is in the community it's still in the community Hub area of right so what does that mean what's what what what what's the function of the community Hub um Community Hub was envisioned um higher density so the core of connected city um what's that oh I can read the actual definition if you'd like uh project is located within the community Hub the community Hub is characterized by a potential mix of residential educational recreational Civic cultural and Resort type uses centered on a central manity the king lake so uh I think the idea was we have the northern Innovation Zone the southern Innovation Zone uh where back and read that one more time sure sorry uh Community Hub is characterized by a potential potential mix of residential educational recreational Civic cultural and Resort type uses centered on a central amenity the king lake so uh Northern Innovation Zone at the top southern Innovation Zone generally lighter densities uh going towards the Middle where there's a little bit higher density multif family type projects moving towards the West to the downtown area which was going to be a little bit more question I'd have for you what's the central amenity well well no he's saying King lake is the central amenity okay sure not necessarily with commercial around the the lake itself but I I understand that so hold on the question I have is where's the cultural where's the resort I'm not seeing how you this fits with what you just described sure so it's it's not each project is going to include all of these things it's the the community hubber is a large geographical area have we approved any that have those things um what what specifically Resort well read the definition again sure can we put it up there yeah part of I think this kind of goes back to my statement earlier of kind of getting an understanding of what all is included here in this community Hub portion and connected City and and all that kind of stuff and seeing the surrounding I mean it it it's really hard for us when we see these one at a time and these one-offs like this sure not knowing I mean for that matter everybody that comes in in the commity Hub on their individual projects who come in with nothing but multif family right and how do we know without having a bigger picture see in the big picture right so we've got this giant planning area and you've just described this function of this sub area of this planning area sure and we've got around a central amenity King Lake where and I can tell you multiple times we've restricted access to the lake so I'm not sure how that's an amenity to anybody and I'm not sure we've approved any resorts around there and that's why I'm curious to actually see the language up here of this definition so I can tell you as somebody who reviews almost every MPD in Connected City I do not recall any well one might argue that the crystal Lagoon is a quote Resort okay but if you put that aside and the area where around the crystal Lagoon I'm not aware of anything MPD that has come in where we've allowed for Resort type entitlement looks like that's part of the north innov Innovative zone right but if you're asking for the if you're asking specifically for the community Hub area I believe the only non-residential entitlements we've allowed or required would be probably office or retail type entitlements not Resort that's for my recollection I don't right and and there's tons of restricted access to the lake itself I think the original plan had envisioned that King Lake would have a a boardwalk going along the length of it that could be you know people connect through that nature nature trails that type of thing uh but I believe those types of impacts were not necessarily feasible with any of the actual mpds that came in after the fact it looks like the community Hub section of connected city is around all the way around that Lake yeah centered around that Lake generally around that Lake right and this is in the upper North East or Northwest portion right and it's supposed to connect into the uh downtown business core that is supposed to be established so this abuts that um and that's why you see some non-residential right on that uh that side of this MD it a buts Urban core it looks like that's correct and uh Mr JY to your point yes so how do we assure that there's a mix of residential educational recreational Civic cultural and Resort type uses so everyone that comes in here wants a multif family they all want Town Homes Town Homes Town Homes Town Homes where's the requirement for the rec the Civic and the cultural and Resort type uses and I understand not every project will be a Civic cultural but if we just approve all Town Homes then we never meet the goal or the objective of the community Hub Zone because there was NE nobody comes in to propose while I'm going to do something Civic or cultural make sure what it's worth this is on the edge of the community of Zone it's the very corner of the The Zone I it's not the project I'm asking in general because this goes to Jamie's comment and I'm frustrated too with every time we get something in Connected City I'm looking at this thing through with blinders on and I'm not seeing the whole Zone and whether we've achieved the vision of the zone and who's who's making sure that that gets done so and I I don't disagree with either of you I think you both have very valid points that we could probably do better in our presentations to you to show the context of the entire area just the presentation who's making sure that the goal the intent and the character that's laid out is actually achieved sure I I would think that would lean towards the planning department um Planning Commission to keep an eye on that the board to ultimately how can we do that if we don't even yeah it's hard for us to see the context of all the different projects that are out there you know because we're looking at the peace meal as they come up on come up here to the DI sure I understand well Patrick let me just add to that comment so I mean it appears as if somebody in planning was trying to make the sort of The Logical extension of the urban core Zone which talks about having a mix of businesses employment gener uses um higher density smaller block sizes which might make some sense sure okay because it's right next to the urban core sure but then I heard staff say they don't care if it has those things that it's perfectly fine if it's residential so can you explain that well goad I'm going to bring up Mr Vermilion good afternoon William for million Planning Development economic growth um not to contradict any of my colleagues that have spoke today but most likely what would happen is we would renegotiate based on a minimum square footage of those office uses if it wasn't achievable when they came in for S plans compared to the binding concept because of the proximity to the urban core and that means that that this body would see it again okay so that is different than what your colleague said so correct so I I came up I came up from the back and uh I am um so you're saying that the non-residential court is crucial to staff's recommendation of approval for this MP correct because of the proximity to the urban core what you were just talking about like nonr portion is on the west side of property which is directly B so then I'll ask you the same question I asked earlier then if would you still have recommended approval of this project if it did not include those things no we we would have negotiated some sort of non-residential mix use component along that road so what bothers me when I look at this is and I'm sorry because I'm looking at my own screen and that's back to that exhibit that I asked that we put up earlier that is the wetlands and flood Plains and I'm trying to figure out why doesn't the concept plan binding concept plan follow the natural features of the land and it seems to me that we can still achieve the objectives of the concept plan but also respect Mother Nature here at the same time for instance up in the very North and I'm sorry because I don't have a pointer up in the very North why couldn't the office be up there I think the town homes generally do sort of follow the Upland why can't the mixed use wrong way why can't the mixed use be there the office be there we're showing an office Blitz in a wetland a mixed use Blitz in a a wetland we've got Uplands that we can be used Town Homes can be located in here instead we want to make this Lots blocks and rows and Blitz Wetlands all at the same time while the public is not exactly thrilled about storm water drainage over the last couple of months here and I understand this is going on a long time but certainly at some point we have the we have the responsibility to recognize to develop in accordance with the lay of the land and that drives me nuts I get clients that come in my office too that don't seem to understand water flows downhill here I want to put I want they come in here with a layout and I want to put a building down here on the low side of the site because it's convenient and I want to put my storm water pond at the top of the hill I get that all the time and I understand but Engineers where that's what we're supposed to to make happen but why are we why are we Fighting Gravity here we're going to go so I think part of the root of Mr Moody's concern and all ask staff this question is the root to me the root cause of the problem is you're basically saying this concept plan is binding because if it wasn't binding in theory it would just be a group of entitlements in a bucket and they could put those entitlements they could lay them out just as Mr Money suggested they could put them but to me the conflict is that we're saying the concept plant is binding but it may not be able to achieve some of what the county is looking for sure so to to both points staff has no issue with following the natural layout of the Wetland nor the flood plane if the applicant were to meet the conditions of approval for the build building orientation that were laid out it would still be substantially compliant with that binding concept plan even though it didn't match exactly if the building orientations still remain the same as in the conditions of approval today then pte would deem that that would be substantially compliant because it would be accomplishing the in intent and purpose that was laid out that you guys were recommending asking all the questions about what does a binding concept plan mean and then how much latitude does your department feel like it has in determining whether something is in accord with the binding concept plan yeah you said if the building orientation is substantially similar but it looks like no if the building orientation is the same not not substantially similar if the building orientation matches the conditions of approval as in the agenda packet but the buildings were in different spots so William but I I think part of the concern is that they're showing a building say in the south west corner where there may not be a building at all so how could the ability and orientation be substantially similar if it just doesn't exist I I I thought we we had already covered that if it didn't exist we weren't going to hold them hostage as it were for not getting build if it was still that was the reason for if we don't then all I'm getting is a townhouse development I'm getting sold a concept plan that says I'm going to get a vertically integrated mixed use and I'm going to get a office and I'm going to get some Town Homes cing back I said because it other because really what should happen is if it if more of it's consumed then there ought to be fewer multifam and then some of the office is in there right you have Rao think I I I said that previously I it would be renegotiated if there was no non-residential in which case it would come back to you guys but how does that happen how does that happen if I have if if we approve this today well actually we don't get the final approval but the bo if the board approves this okay and they come in here for a site plan they come into Brad's department and they get a site plan approval for some town homes and he he says yep town homes are shown on the concept plan looks like the concept plan they brought me a Swift Mud permit go build your town homes then they never ever come back with a mixed use development or a office building so then I haven't met and achieved the goals in the intent of the community Hub I'm not even sure this actually meets and achieves those goals but nonetheless I've never met and achieved those goals what I'm saying is if they had no non-residential it was just Town Homes it wouldn't be substantially compliant because we're like like I mentioned so are you saying that they're required to come and get a site plan approval for all of this at one time no I mean we we could craft a condition today about phasing right if you guys want to see the first phase to be the non-residential component we can do we're trying to renegotiate it here that's just not the right place for renegotiation and there's a lot of kind of moving Parts here one I think the binding concept plan and and first off I I think they've over asked for entitlements but we don't really know that at this point it's not that uncommon to ask for more entitlements than you can actually achieve on the property yes okay that that being said I don't see anywhere outlined where there is a phasing plan where there is any kind of guarantee where there are any minimums if that's important which I think what I'm hearing up here today and what I've seen in the community Hub that's an important component here um I I agree with John's point that I mean there's nothing the way this is written today to stop this from a Town Home Project coming in building out the town homes and then trying to negotiate the build out of the of the more difficult property I mean there's a lot of restrictions in this property that from an engineering standpoint have not in my opinion been even accounted for agre sure uh and I don't disagree with you um and I think that what will was saying staff has no issue with any kind of condition that would require the non-residential component to uh proceed or go along with the residential but I think the applicant would need to weigh on whether or not they would be okay with the condition as well and to I think some points made about The Binding concept plan um you know if they're not substantially complying with the binding concept plan you guys will see it again so but still your point about phasing still applies understand that Mr tip it's been a fun discussion and and quite quite frankly every single person that has spoken on this is absolutely right this is the inherent problem with binding concept plans uh but there has been a commitment to go that route so so we want to try and do that and I think that the solution here um and just to not create too much of a problem I think it's a concept of phasing as you know when you phase a plan at at my level you have to everything uh has to be there it can't be dependent on a future phase of development so there's a level of engineering that has to be done so whatever we put in as far as this phasing should also be kind of a conceptual phasing a certain amount of uh of non-residential has to be approved prior to going Beyond this amount some sort of a generic thing like that rather than drawing a line the line may not work I would tell you Brad I 100% agree with you that that that's the case I'm just not sure if this is the time that place but yeah I mean it feels like you know if this has to come back to us this you know it should have been done right in the first place you I feel like some of this engineering should have been done before we get into a binding concept plan I think Mr Moody's point is that if there's going to be a phasing condition about non-residential versus residential that that's something staff should negotiate before it ever gets plan I'm not comfortable my I'm personally not comfortable with trying to pull a number out of the air and say well you better build X many square feet of this and that before you build this many town homes or vice versa I think that all needs to get looked at well and the other reason I think staff needs to do it is no offense to staff but we were somewhat conflicting testimony on the importance of the non-residential so that what makes it which makes it even more difficult for Planning Commission to come up with the number because we don't know how important that non-residential component is so to to to move this along I mean would would it continue to make sense give some more time to so I I would leave that up to the applicant and and the staff that are directly involved but I know obviously you don't want to yeah it is something that that there could possibly be some some solution here because I think the condition that would be added is is somewhat generic in nature you wouldn't necessarily pull a number you know completely out of the air there would be some kind of a r well I I don't know that I agree Brad I mean what you're what you're describing is basically commitment that a certain amount of the non-residential will get built approved appr approved site plan approved whatever before they get to a certain amount of residential yes How would how would Planning Commission come up with those numbers I mean the applicant may be able to provide those numbers today if the applicant can commit to certain percentage the staff and the Planning Commission are in agreement with it I guess that's maybe that works but gu all the further stff in the applicant I think we just need to kick it to these guys see what their thoughts are David I have a question for you we just don't need to be planning from are you well yes I agree with you Derek are there any comprehensive plan policies that you can think of right off hand that would attempt to either encourage or discourage the wholesale destruction of a wetland to accommodate a project I understand don't get me wrong and I'm involved in Land Development I'm one of these bad guy Engineers that does these plans for these land developers and there are times where we come across an inconveniently located mud hole a lot of times they're cattle W wle holes or they were some cattle watering Pond dug 100 years ago for a ranch and we fill them in and we mitigate off site and we create flood plane compensation areas to make up for that loss of historic Basin storage and flood plane storage but we don't look at properties and go well hey 40% of this property is wetland we'll just fill the whole thing dredge it all out turn it into a storm water pond and I will tell you and I'm not accusing all developers of doing that the vast majority of them do come in here and protect and build around these wetlands and we show these Wetland buffers there's no Wetland buffers here we're just going to dredge the Wetland out and turn it into a storm water Pond I'm just not so my question is is do we have any policies that would encourage that discourage that require that so I'll probably need Jackie to help weigh in on this but my general understanding is is that if it's a category one Wetland we absolutely do have comp plan policies that discourage and in fact basically say you can't impact that class one Wetland unless there's no feasible alternative I mean it's a pretty stringent standard familiar with that on a category one Wetland um whether it's fortunate or unfortunate I don't the standard is certainly not as strict for category two or three but I'm going to let Jackie weigh in on whether we do any kind of avoidance analysis on a category two or three Wetland so and Jackie before you respond I'll just say that if you apply to the Water Management District one of your burdens that you have to meet if you want to fill a wetland is you have to demonstrate minimization Andor avoidance and then you also have to demonstrate that this is in the public interest but I think my my general understanding is that standard is more stringent than what is in our comp plan okay but that's what I'm trying to ask but I'll let Jackie weigh in if she wants to add to [Music] that are only allowed to be impacted for you know access and linear utilities but category twos and threes can be impacted as long as they get their state approval so we don't really have a say in if they're minimizing and avoiding at our level just because the the code defers to the for those okay understood than you Jackie Jackie can can you comment on how our uh and the comp plan policy on flood plan protection would apply potentially here um our department isn't designated that section you're looking at Matt I'm looking at uh flu 1.2 can we put that up excuse me what was that section again 1 1.2.5 and then 1 point I don't know that 1. 2.6 May apply as well review of res zoning requests within areas of frequent flitting but it's right there with it so so it's the uh oh it's it's future land is 1.2 Sor right you're in con you have to scroll the other way keep scrolling down should be below that he said 1.2.5 yes I'm sorry it should be above that above that wrong way there you go I'll wait for well my general understanding all that staff we have storm water staff they can give you a more detailed understanding is that this comp plan policy is implemented through our Land Development regulation that was going to be my comment and so you the details of how we limit development within the 100-year flood plane are contained within our Land Development regulations in particular is it section 1200 Patrick you would know what is where's our storm water regulations I don't know the top of my head is either 12 or 14 then we have storm water quality which is in other words this this is setting forth a general policy to protect flood planes but the details of of how that is regulated or in Land Development code okay so if Shelly gets up and says we'll comply with the Land Development code she's arguably compliant with this policy because it's the policy is implemented through the Land Development code let me let makes sense should there be a basic need if you're going to come in and you're going to commit to a binding concept and I understand why the board would want this and I would tell you that I'm I'm frustrated sometimes I call it the bait and switch we get presented a pretty picture and then that's not what we actually get in the field but shouldn't there be some some preliminary or basic cursory evaluation of a project to see what if I would have just come in here and said I want to pave this whole thing well I know you're not going to get a permit for that so then what's the point of a binding concept plan if I know that I can't ever get that permitted yeah I don't see how you can have a binding concept plan without having the Swift M approvals ahead of time that's that's that was I'm not sure they need to but I I think where I'm what I'm asking is shouldn't there be some kind of cursory review I mean I realize we don't want to put them through the site plan review when they're trying to go through the entitlement phase but somebody to put some common sense on a plan and say yeah that looks doable you know within some reasonable deviation which is the intent of this concept plan right the staff can approve some deviations but if a developer came in here and said well I just want to pave this wall to wall we know that's not doable I'm not going to approve an entitlement to do that so my personal belief is that I like the idea The Binding concept plan I think this the idea needs to the idea as a regulatory tool or an entitlement tool that this needs to be thought through a little bit more so Mr M I think it's not a black and white answer to your question because I think It ultimately depends on what part of The Binding concept plan is subject to not being built if they can't get these permits so for example if the area where they were showing if the areas with the wetlands and flood planes was all town homes and maybe they can build less Town Homes I don't know that staff or the board really cares okay because they're just Town Homes arguably we have a lot of those okay so but if the area they're showing where the wetlands this is why I asked the question how important are these non-residential entitlements to this approval because if that's where the wetlands and flow plane is where they're showing the the carrot to to the county which is the non-residential mixed use stuff that's a little more problematic because to your point earlier what happens at the first site plan in is just town homes they all get built they show some conceptual phase two with the non-residential mixed you stuff and then phase two never comes in because it's got Wetland impacts flood plane impacts and that goes to you know Williams Point well they wanted staff wanted that to be non-residential because it's right next to the urban core so I I think which may not be possible because what was so I what I'm saying is I don't it depends on what what they're showing in that area I mean if it's just more housing maybe not the end of the world if it doesn't get built to your point a lot of stuff gets over entitled and so if you're asking what does the county care about I'll just go by Williams answer the county cares about the employment generating portion of of the project that's what helps our tax base if we're going to impact Wetlands arguably that should be it should be for things like that that improve the tax base of the county not for more town homes and create jobs because at least we're getting yes we're sacrificing wetlands and flood plane but at least we're getting jobs we're getting and there's a need for economic development in the county too so you don't want to sty me the economic development of the county because it might have some Wetland flood plane impacts right and I recognize that there are impacts like said it's not uncommon I'm laying out a subdivision Street and I turn a corner and I clip off a little piece of a wetland that's not an uncommon thing in this business that's done every day we don't come in and generally just wholesale wipe out all the wetlands whether they be categor 3 Wetlands or category 1 wetlands in the Pasco County comprehensive plan and I can tell you when you go to get your state and federal permits for Wetlands there's no such thing as a category one two or three in fact we need actually whoever's working on the comp plan we need to get rid of that because that doesn't even comport to state and federal law in state and federal law Wetland a Wetlands a wetland a wetland but sure I'd be more in favor of a continuance for them to come back with a plan that one provides some level of assurance that we're going to get what we see and then two I'll ask them I guess maybe our our comprehensive plan and our Land Development code don't obligate them but I'll ask them to consider please being good stewards to the land listen to the people who got up and spoke prior to this hearing about their concerns and I'm not telling you that I agree with everything that was said I'm an engineer and I've got my own views on some of the flooding and some of the causes and not causes and but I do hear them sure and I would hope that they would these people would hear them and understand that you're coming to this board and the County Commission you're asking for something well this is a negotiation you don't get everything you want you got to give some stuff so you give you get well from what I've heard there's two different solutions possible it's either continuation or some sort of a condition that uh delineates a phasing uh thing and we were going to ask the applicant if perhaps they had an idea on what phasing might work okay um I'm sure that might be able to answer they're fine with continuance by the way if okay you want to know that um if you want to answer to that one you could is there well then if that is the case if they're fine with the sh is there a suggested amount of time you think you'd accomplish it's 30 days 60 days 90 days 6 months and I think an overall update on the connected City plan would be nice to accompany that if we're going to look at this again sure would agree keep that in mind as far as so if I can jump in here just I I don't know what the timeline suggestion but our next to dat City hearings for Planning Commission um the next dat City hearing is 1212 2024 1:30 in dat City and then the one after that is 1 19 2025 dat dat City at 1:30 and they say they would like to shoot for 1212 does staff believe it can get that done in that time staff does believe that okay because I think we're going to be here a long time on January 9th so can I ask Patrick is your intent for the continuance to create a new binding concept plan or is your intent to just come up with a phasing condition cuz I the reason I say asked that question is because I think it's going to take longer to redo the binding concept plan then just write up a phasing condition so what is we staff going with this so I think we're interested in in in doing the condition right so if they have a binding concept plan and they say they can make this work engineering wise in time in terms of flood plane and that type of thing so be it if they can't do that they'll have to come back in again if we have that condition in there that says that they have need a certain portion of non-residential first so I think we're more interested in getting that condition that guarantees us that non-residential all right and then I would just say I think internally you guys need to be thinking about how you'll actually administer and enforce binding concept plans I'm not going to tell you how to run your department I don't know whether that's a policy memo or a staff meeting or however you but I I think there's going to be questions about that at the board too especially the first time somebody doesn't deliver on something that one commissioner is going to say well that doesn't look like that binding concept plan to me you have to answer to them Yeah we actually started um writing up what that might be so we are in the preliminary talks of defining what a binding concept plan is because that can vary depending on Project to project so yeah we're in the process of doing that yeah I think that's a good idea especially like the minimum requirements I mean because I mean I think Bing concept plan mind bind it automatically goes to you this is the general layout okay well General layout kind of goes to where your access points are and what's what is the connectivity look like through the project well then I think there's a condition in here that the the accesses are conditional or are you know not stuck at this spot well that contradicts what my mind goes to for a binding concept plan so understood yeah we're going to better Define that and and as commissioner M said too um it would be great to have see what the overarching plan is and where this fits into the plan for connected cities for any of these future projects okay I don't know if there's already already a um procedure in place with internally within uh your department to kind of keep track of well these projects as they get approved and how they fit into the overall so I heard one of the Commissioners asked for a comprehensive update or review of the progress of connected city is there an effort going on to do that to make a presentation to the board to show them here's what the vision was here's what we've actually achieved I've heard them ask this a couple of times cuz in my mind this is what it's it's like a jigsaw puzzle right and you have little pieces that are dropping in place but you know we want to be able to see what that picture looks like outside of that jigsaw puzzle and you know I think commissioner wants to I think I was at that meeting and I there definitely was clear direction from the board to have a workshop on vop um oh I'm sorry so you're correct d so but there may have been some mention at the same word meaning about want something similar for connected City but I don't know that that was a clear Direction that's my bad I think it was vop that but I staff can tell me if I'm wrong but I'll ask the Commissioners please ask for the same for connected City sure yeah I I think uh there is supposed to be a board Workshop to go over vop and connected City to talk about development and where we're at with it you intending to do both at the same [Music] time Mr Vermillion is the only reason I asked that is because vop has their own Planning Group okay sure that wants to be part of the V and we'll have to split it up for that reason sure okay we will be splitting it up yes they're very both very large projects in their own right I'll just ask sure since the Vach policy and planning committee asked to be part of the workshop on vop MH have you thought about whether you should invite the Planning Commission to be part of the workshop for connected City and that they're all shaking their head yes uh yeah we'd like to see that yes we would then the answer is probably yes we'll probably invite them probably we will definitely we will definitely invite them makes planning a whole lot easier yeah sure right so um I'll make a motion to continue before you move on I'm sorry I wanted I did wanted to address the one lady I think she stepped out but she asked the question about student Generation Um with the 380 multif family and how how can it only be 77 students so I just wanted to respond to that because I get called by principles all the time hey this huge apartment complex is going up next door to my school I'm going to have 300 students coming out of there and I'm like no you you are not let me explain so we do have student generation rates we don't make up those numbers we have um and we actually update it and every time we do the impact fees so we do a study of all the apartment complexes how many students live in them how many and we figure out okay if they're going to build bu 400 apartments how many students would we expect so that is what that number is based on and actually while we're sitting here I pulled three projects um in the Wesley Chapel area so Bona down by um Northwood has 264 Apartments there are 56 k312 students in there um deleno I don't remember where that is but that's kind of the 7 Oaks area I believe 288 Apartments that's 58 students Colonial Grand uh 318 Apartments that's about 65 students and that's across all grades yes across all all grades I can tell you how many elementary middle and high that makes so I will also say that we get the same question on impact fees yes which is Chris is you know why is it that the multif family fee is so much lower than the right single family and it's because of the student generation but it also makes sense to me because as somebody who one time lived in apartment was when I was single didn't have children yes um and then you Apartments s also have those that are retired and they're right they don't want maintenance of their homes anymore and so I can see why a single family attached home is going to have higher generation student generation it makes sense logically yeah so do I don't want to get into debate all of this the did this is Town Homes shown on this plan are Town Homes any different than apartments in your numbers are those like separated out or treated differently so we used to and David's familiar with this too when we re just redid our impact fees we used to do we do break them out um but with our more recent impact fee study we went ahead and combined them because I believe the county tends to we had that discussion about multif family versus town home I know the county so the the county classifies Town Homes as multifam development but town homes are generally be simple ownership and I have no I have no idea I don't live in a town home and I don't want to live in a town home I have no idea whether more family live in town homes than apartments or vice versa but I will tell you I mean looking for these are our old these are not our newest um student generation rights but the previous set of student generation rights um for example um multifam was generating 235 or roughly 24 students per 100 um and town homes were generating about 16 or 17 so actually less so yeah a little bit less in town homes but um similar so we went ahead this time when we redid our impact fees and just combined those if I could explain that sort of in general Common Sense terms I mean as a general Town Homes tend to be starter you know starter homes or the first move up out of the apartment into the town home typic many times they don't have the family established at that point so then when they have a family they outgrow the town home and now they need to be in the single family home so I his data makes sense to me yes all right I guess one more thing because we kind of we did get really bogged down on this Bing concept plan topic I did see reference in here to as far as conversion um and there is a limitation they're not able to convert from Resident I'm sorry from office to residential if they do convert from residential to office I didn't see is there equivalency Matrix or some kind of conversion rate that needs to be part of the package so there was a condition written that basically maxes out at 194 total trips for the development but I've already talking to the applicant about Al Loom and making that clear so we can have that as well prior to uh the next hearing to make it a little bit clear for everyone in the conversion rates very good okay all right I'll go back to my to continue uh PC2 to the 1212 date City meeting I'll second all right there's a motion in a second any further discussion yeah just one to the applicant I'd say what I'm looking at too when we do see this again just looking at the this one's obviously got more Wetland and flood plan impact and a lot that we see just looking at our conditions for evaluating and reviewing resoning I think some more discussion on I'm looking at item nine whether property reson could be developed in a manner which would comply with other regulations just some some discussion on plans there um whether the portion of the property are suitable for development being that it's all flood ples so I think there's some so I was back to make the same point with you I agree with you I shy I think next time you need to bring your engineer I think we need to see some expert testimony about how you're going to I I recognize that you got up and said that you think you can permit all of these impacts but with all due respect you're not an engineer you're an attorney so so I think we need some expert testimony to support that position yeah and for me I'm looking just to give you numbers so you can look we can don't have to read them but uh the our evaluation criteria is under 42.1 number nine 12 15 16 I think would we we need to see some of the engineering expert testimony would be good because as I don't see how it's developable at that density to not impact the flood plan it's it's just not okay Chris anything else nope okay a motion a second all in favor I I oppos motion carries continue to 1212 24 anything else I think that's all for the agenda to motion to adjourn second all in favor oppos motion carries everybody makes the motion that's right good question Robert's Rules went out the way [Music] waterways and Wildlife depend on you to keep them healthy excess fertilizer grass clippings trash oils and pet waist wash into gutters and storm drains when it rains storm water carries these pollutants directly into our Lake and rivers creating an unhealthy environment for fish water foul and other Aquatic animals storm drains are meant for clean rainwater most other discharges 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returned to their caregivers cats and our communities often have one or more caregivers and they usually hang up in their home area the best thing to do for these cats is to leave them be share that message and you too can help battle pet overpopulation if you're concerned that kittens have really been orphaned meaning they haven't been moved or you're sure mom hasn't been back in at least eight consecutive hours then you can step in and care for the kittens Animal Services offers resources on our website about kitten fostering spay neuter Services trap rentals and vaccinations whether you have a single Community cat or a bunch of kitties we encourage you to contact us at 813 9291 1212 or through our website for more information on our snip trap neuter vaccinate release program this means healthier and fewer Community cats in your neighborhood healthier because we can prevent diseases like rabies and fewer because all of the cats that we treat are also spayed and neutered cats are eligible for the program at 8 weeks old Pasco County is a strong and growing community and through our combined efforts we can help save lives with three simple words leave them be hi I'm Kurt Browning Pasco County Superintendent of Schools I lead the charge to provide a worldclass education for all students and to ensure each student achieves success in college career and life however achieving this success can be difficult for the student who has been removed from their home for their own protection and placed in foster care or another out ofhome placement alarmingly right here in Pasco County there are almost 1,000 abused and neglected children in the child welfare system children in foster care often experience multiple placements and consequently May attend several different schools in one school year making it difficult for them to achieve academic success what can you do you can help by becoming a guardian at life volunteer children who have a guardian at lium do better in school and are more likely to find a safe permanent home sooner to learn how you can help call 727 834 3493 or visit heroo a child.org our children and their success matter to me I am for the child are [Music] [Applause] [Music] you share Aaron uses Pasco County public transportation just about every day she can it saves my life actually because I'm not a person to stay home she rides the bus system to go to the doctor shopping and even into penis County I've had a couple bus drivers say you get around pcpt continues to grow expanding service with new buses and new routes West Pasco is a big town middle pasco's Rural and East Pasco is small Urban which presents totally different Transportation difficulties and challenges but our drivers and the team overcome those challenges on a daily basis to make sure our customers get where they need to go on time and safely from professionals to retirees pcpt buses are for everyone sit there use our free Wi-Fi look at your phone get some work done call somebody or just sit there and read a book and leave the driveing to us because we'll get you where you need to go nice to how you feeling okay good I like your purse pcpt also provides special services for those who need a little extra help with the PA of transit buses the service is good because it's be reliable Alana Newman gets door-to-door service to pasco's senior service elderly nutrition program they just seem like they have a good time and and they they do enjoy the service no matter where you are headed frequent riters say it doesn't take long to get the hang of things you'll learn learn where those buses go and then you can learn where to connect and and if you don't know a bus driver ask a bus driver the bus drivers are always um helping me [Music] [Music] roughly 90,000 dogs in Pasco County create more than five tons of waste every year when left on the ground storm water carries bacteria nutrients from pet waste into waterways causing algae blooms and unhealthy conditions for fish and other aquatic creatures polluted waters are also unsafe for swimming and Recreation please do your part to keep Florida waters clean by disposing of your pets waste in the trash for more information contact Pasco County Department of Public Works at 727