yes i know you I'm sorry yeah it's the issue with tariffs you know tariffs should be It needs to be more long we're just going to have to take it as they come really
i agree with you needs to be You always have the option to do like you did with No I don't know why he's doing it you know the one with your drainage problem out there yeah go meet with them or is Tim and
Mike here okay marketing back and forth rethink your whole supply chain decision right stick with it let them work at the right
it's his way of negotiating see I'm a bad guy now i'm a nicer guy not as bad good cut bad cup bad cup good cup all that being said I wish Jerome Powell would get some recognition trionates
right they got new chairs in here that's why Well he really does have to keep their inflation low but at the same time rates
that I agree and didn't do it soon enough inflation how can you print 40% of the money in circulation in two years in expectation trans okay I'd like to call the meeting to order if we could stand for a moment of
silence in the pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible liberty and justice for all okay madam cler could you have the roll
call please mr jamie here mr christopher P mr john here mr matthews Mr derek here mr richard here chairman Charles here and the proof of publications please
the items were advertised in the Santa Times on January 28th 2025 March 5th 2025 March 19th 2025 and April 2nd 202 okay thank you okay so I'd like to welcome
everybody today um there's some seats up front here if somebody wants to sit so I'd like to welcome you today and the planning commission is appointed by the board of county commissioners and we meet twice a month we serve as a local planning agency and we hold public
hearings and transmit to the board of county commissioners recommendations on comprehensive plan amendments land development code amendments and conditional use request plan Commission is the final decision making body for special exceptions
certain appeals variance requests and certain alternative standard requests however final decisions may be appealed to the board of county commissioners anyone is in opposition to any land development code amendment or resoning conditional use or any any item
where the planning commission makes a recommendation to the board of county commissioners it will be important for you to attend the appropriate board county commission meeting to follow up on that and we have those dates available if you if you need
them for those of you who are not familiar with the meetings um we have birds in the belfry okay how we got that out of the way let's get ready to run for the door that's
right for those of you who aren't familiar with the meetings uh besides weird sounds we also have continuences consent agenda and regular items um we're going to go a little go a little bit out of order today but just to tell
you what they are um continuences are things that we applications that we have have been brought to our attention and either the staff or the applicant has has requested a continuence for any number of reasons and unless there are
extenduating circumstances it's been our custom to grant continuences as a uh request and then we have consent items those are items that um where we have not received any objections or concerns
from staff or the public those items will go through one at a time as I read them off uh if you hear me say one that you'd like to have heard today or you'd like to speak about or have questions about raise your hand and we'll pull it from the consent items and we'll put it
on regular items and the regular items are the items that we fully discuss and vet today and and vote on so um applicants will have five minutes to make their presentations and concerned citizens will have three minutes to
state their concerns and then the applicant will have an opportunity to come back up and respond to any of those concerns um the uh I don't Do we have any requests for additional time today
no Mr chair we do not you know if you wanted to have additional time it would be necessary to request in writing at least 24 hours prior to this meeting for additional time we have have not had those any requests so um
uh this is a good time by the way to silence your phones if you have a phone and it's not silenced better check my own and uh please put it on the silent
position so we won't interrupt anyone and before we start the regular meeting is there anybody here to speak on something that's not on today's agenda okay I don't see anyone and then before we move to the
agenda items um for those of you who have signed up to speak or wish to speak please stand and raise your right hand and be sworn anybody who plans to speak about Thank you
okay i believe that we're starting with um number 11 is that correct yes Mr chair item APC11 is going first on the agenda today okay so we're this we're starting with a consent item um so I
don't know if you have your printouts but if you look under APC 11 that's the one we're going to be discussing uh that's a on on consent is the applicant present anyone here to object
is there we have one objection we have two individuals signed up Mr chair okay and you're the applicant yeah yes sir mr chairman if it's okay with you because I think we only have two folks here if I could jump in and we could handle our item i think we'll be
able to do it very quickly okay very good u Clark Hobby Hobby and Hobby PA 109 North Brush Street Tampa Florida i've been sworn and I appreciate you helping me out today know and then I' I've got a be clear are we okay with
leaving staff's presentation of the item um staff has not presented that's You're right you're right David i'm jumping the gun i mean okay staff doesn't want to present i don't in a bit of a hurry today
yeah probably works for us now you got grandchildren waiting I think good afternoon planning commission members i'm Kurt Cyerson with planning development economic growth before you today item PTE27825 resoning request in the name of Mitchell SJP
MPD just organize my notes here can everybody hear okay a little louder the county map illustrates the site by the red arrow this is southwest Pasco County Commissioner Starky's district in the South Market area patt if you can help me out go to
the next slide project overview the proposed resoning request is a prospective MPD development currently the site is zoned I2 General Industrial Park the applicant requested reszoning to an MPUD master plan unit development the prospective MPUD development would
entitle the site by the following 515,000 ft business park and 107,660 ft commercial retail node on approximately 92.61 acres the master plan in the coming slides will illustrate the locations of both the
commercial and business park sites by condition of approval number 34 just real quickly the commercial retail uses can be C2 general commercial with provisions condition of approval 34 business park uses there are four
subcategories of uses here first being industrial all permitted I1 and accessory C all permitted and accessory C3 medical uses including hospitals medical offices laboratories
three office these are all permitted and accessory P2 uses and the fourth is commercial retail same C2 with provisions here's our location map as illustrated by the aerial Mitchell SJP directly but south of State Road
54 this site is approximately 0.2 Two miles east of the State Road 54 and Starky Boulevard intersection directly west of the site is the illustrated portion of the Starky Trail here's our zoning map the site is currently
I2 south of Mitchell SJP lies Triny Communities MPUD residential community west of the site is an undeveloped AC land and the Mitchell Ranch East use I'm sorry Mitchell Ranch East
mixeduse MPUD which is undeveloped across State Road 54 majority of the zoning classifications are C1 C2 RM mobile home community of Country Place mobile home park our future land use here is PD planned development this is within the
western hub sub area compatibility with such goes by the following i compatibility with the surrounding existing and planned areas state road 54 is comprised of other mixed use commercial industrial and
residential land uses second economic development objective consistent with our economic development objectives by providing appointment generation in the business park which there provides a consumer base for the commercial component along
54 three adequacy of existing and programmed public services and facilities state Road 54 will operate at an adequate level of service with the generation of the site utilities and capacity exists for this site public transportation will be further accessible by the development of the bus
stop built on the 54 frontage here's our context map the Starky Boulevard expansion to the west has been stubbed to by the applicant and illustrated on their MPD master plan which I will show next the applicant here has generously committed $15,000 to
a county connection of their site to the Starky Trail this is by condition of approval 24 finding a fact three and illustrated on the master plan of course to the south we can see communities and beauty residential neighborhood uh to which the
applicant has requested a variance and not burdened by a vehicular connection to the east we can see a substantial wetland system between the site in Trinity Elementary and the Trinity Commercial Center where the applicant has also requested a variance as to not negatively impact the wetland system by
a vehicular connection north of the subject site are various land uses including commercial endeavors self- storage mobile home community of country place mobile home park the MPD master plan the pink red area along 54 is their commercial retail
node this is going to be entitled for 107,000 660 square ft the uses here being C2 general commercial with provisions the southern portion in blue is the 515,000 foot business park the
uses here having four subcategories industrial I1 and permanent accessory street C3 uses the medical uses office uses which are all permanent and accessory P2 and then commercial retail component
peritted C2 uses with provisions illustrated by T along the Starky Trail is the stub the county stub which the applicant has committed $15,000 to v is our vehicular
stub to the Starky Boulevard expansion should that come to fruition no go ahead a B and C are the vehicular access points access B is the site of the location the signal warrant study as outlined by condition of approval
16 lining the commercial node in the business park in light red are the sidewalks for internal capture and circulation of pedestrians employees citizens next we'll go to the variation requests number one a variation from
901.6D.11 this is to limit vehicular access east and south of the site east being because of the wetland system avoiding to impact by vehicular connection south the turn community
residential community variation number two 805.6 Six the applicant would like parcel owners to be responsible for open spaces landscape areas wetland areas and related infrastructures without an HOA or CDD this is the same for variation number
three barcelonas are responsible for storm water management systems and related infrastructure without an HOA or CDD variation for mo blended mobility fees varying from 1302.2
well specifically 1302.2 F.2 I 1302.2 F.1 C and 1302.2.5 F.2.H solely within the business park the applicant proposes a blended mobility
fee based on a thousand square feet of leasable leasable square footage within the business park for any use paid at the time of certificate of completion certificate of completion does not entitle occupancy certificate of completion is just when the payment is
due finally variation number five has to not require landscape buffers between the parcels truck service courts or individual tenants within the business park allowing for a greater ease of pedestrian mobility and aids in facilitating activation of uses within the business park the SJP product type
is a campus style and should be identifiable as such pte finds the requested variations consistent with their applicable LDC sections and recommends approval in conclusion PTE recommends approval of the resoning request item PTE
257825 with the provided conditions thank you for your time and consideration i'm available should you have questions any questions from up here okay thank you thank you very much Mr chairman just to um clarify for the record I will be abstaining from voting
on this item due to my involvement so thank you it's unedited mr mr chairman would you like me to speak now that you've actually given the staff their chance to do their job okay clark Hobby again 109 North Brush Street Tampa Florida i've been sworn i'm here
on behalf of the Mitchell family and St john Properties st john Properties is a large light industrial uh and mixeduse developer based in Maryland and on this site if we can go back can you flip back to the master plan you'll see the
overwhelming majority of the site is for a business park that we're going to be building out at roughly 500,000 square feet of flex space buildings that will be predominantly uh light industrial and office uh our clients unique in that we
uh own and we build and continue to own the overwhelming majority of the product that they build instead of merchant building and then selling so the company holds a great majority of the 24 25 million square feet of light industrial
flexbased buildings they built in their portfolio and they maintain a tenant roster i believe it has over a thousand active tenants in it at any given time and so it's unique and that they contain continue to maintain an active interest
in the site over a long period of time um as you heard from staff the existing zoning is I2 and I'll show you in just a minute um a little bit of the backstory on the site but in general I'm very
excited about this site because it could have been heavy or industrial uses for many many years believe my father uh uh zoned the site heavy industrial with the Mitchell family in 1983 and it would allow some very intense uh uses that I
don't think we want in this area so what we're doing today is just zoning it to have it conform with the Western Hub uh PD that we created about um 12-1 15 years ago and so we're excited about it we estimate I believe if I'm getting the
numbers right they think that we'll have roughly 1,800 jobs on the site and that's based on actual numbers and their buildout with similar projects uh around the US so if I could go to my PDF that would be great i just wanted to give the
planning commission a little bit of background i think we have two neighbors here that maybe have a couple of questions but I just want the uh record to be clear on on how we got to today it's a separate PDF that I don't
upload and I'm gonna have to have you manually advance the pages if you don't mind there you go i just mainly doing this i think most of the planning commissioners know this but the Mitchell families own this property for a long period of time so the first uh property appraiser aerial you see there is from
1985 as I said the property was zoned heavy industrial in 1983 so if you see that not only is the Mitchell property where we are on the subject site but our property to the west isn't developed and Trinity had not been developed at that
time so if we can go to the next page then you'll see in 2001 the development in the adjacent phases of Trinity began to occur off a duck slooh so we can go to the next page this is the original comp plan
designation when the county designated uh or created the first comprehensive plan the site because of the existing heavy industrial site was already designated as heavy industrial in the original comprehensive plan so we can go to the next one and that pretty much
stayed in place that map is from the uh adopted comp plan in 2007 and it continues to show heavy industrial and the future land use map if we can go to the next page and then again you see that's the date of the zoning you can
see in the small part of the box it shows you the 1983 zoning if we can go to the next sheet now again there are a lot of very intense uses that we don't want on this site so what we're doing today is basically stepping it down into something that will be more in line with
what's developed around us uh but the existing I2 uses would have allowed bone distillation fat rendering paper mills gas refining plants metal smelting stockyards among many other things so we don't want that in the area we're going
to build a beautiful business park if I go to the last slide here just for the planning commissioner's benefit this is based on our actual engineered plans that we plan to submit in the in the coming days when the MPUD gets approved
and what you're seeing there is we have a nice landscape buffer up against our neighbors there but even beyond that we have a series of ponds two of which are going to have fountains in them and be a really nice amenity for the area and to the extent they can see beyond our
landscape buffer and our vinyl fencing they'll mainly uh be looking into these beautiful ponds that have fountains in them so we think it'll be an amenity and moreover the measurement that you see there shows you that the closest uh part
of the business park buildings is 315 ft away from the nearest residence so we think we've been very responsible here we feel like this is going to be a great uh credit to our community and with that I'm happy to answer any questions that our neighbors might have all right thank
you very much thank you any questions from up here moment okay all right so I think we had some couple of people that wanted to speak had questions we do have two individuals signed up uh the first individual is
Molly Fischer molly if you come up state your name and address and you've been sworn I believe yes I've been sworn um good afternoon my name is Molly Fischer my address is 1 1946 Cassie Lane thank you
go ahead this is um hi uh I'm here today to share my perspective on the proposed zoning change that impacts the land directly next to my neighborhood i live in Foxwood um right now that land represents a rare find in our area it's
peaceful and it's natural and it's full of life and it's where my family and my neighbors go to walk to bike and to reconnect it's quiet and it's safe and it's one of the few places left in our area where we can just breathe so currently this area is zoned as an I2
district which uh as mentioned does allow limited types of development and does have strict controls with them and that's what my family and our neighbors signed up for when we moved to Foxwood uh it's been over 40 years that it's been zoned that way and I think that it says something that nothing has been
developed there yet under that zoning but MPUD is a completely different situation it's not the solution mpud will allow the developer to mix highdensity residential strip retail restaurants even nightife uh with fewer
limits on what they can do so under MPUD they could pivot to a mini mall or highdensity apartments tomorrow but I2 is giving us predictability right now mpud gives us uncertainty and the uncertainty is costing us it cost us our peace and our
wildlife and our safety and those are things that we don't get back the reasoning here only covers a small sliver of that entire track that we saw uh this is just the tip of the iceberg if you approve MPUD here you
start the domino effect every adjacent parcel is back before you asking for the same flexibility and pretty soon we're not going to have any of that green space left but I know Pasco is growing we need smart growth and businesses to support it and that's part of the deal but but
this space that is a small rare pocket of peace next to our homes and to our schools it's not the right place the students at Trinity Elementary don't deserve to have their outdoor spaces crowded by another parking lot we're not just losing grass and trees we'd be
losing habitats and quiet moments and the free healthy spaces that keep our community grounded it's more than just a trail and a green space back there but it's a community thread that's connecting us in that area right now and once we unravel it we're not going to be able to sew it back together this area
is one of those rare accessible community treasures it's a blessing to all of us as it stands so for my children and for my neighbors I'm asking you all to please deny this resoning request protect this green space and the current zoning for our families and for
our wildlife we don't want to be the people that look back and says that we had something beautiful and we let it slip away thank you thank you any questions any comments no thank you who
would be next next individual we have signed up is Marie Chisum i'm sorry if I butchered that person here okay again apologies for the attack alarm um and I I came here out of curiosity
because Excuse me before you go any further we just need your full name and your address oh I apologize again all right my name is Marie Chisum and I live at 2529 Cashachet Drive Newport Richie Countryplace Place Village which is
right across the street okay um I'm telling you what my observations are and it's bad enough for us to not be able to get out of our development we protested this when McDonald's went in and we were
never notified of any variances and I think it was your town commissioners that said that variances were going to be um notified to the tenants because we we rent the property okay now with that being said okay we
have plenty of businesses around us we have grocery stores we have all these things we have plenty of medical doctors and facilities um I'm not very happy with this whole situation because I as a resident of
Country Place we're all on fixed incomes and thereabouts and um our rents have gone up because of all this growth and impact and not only that people you know it's got to stop it has to stop the
insurance cars car car insurance rates are going up uh taxes are going up everything's going up to me you know we need to have this little space of green and because of all the construction we have
a I guess you would say orphaned Pen okay because her space was knocked out so we give her sanctuary but the thing is we all enjoy it and the impact on not only that but the the ambulance sewer
uh car insurance it's just null and void you know i mean we might as well give up our residence and it's up it's going to probably go up for sale for corporate use okay it's already considered corporate use because it's a
corporate land owner who rents to us okay but it's not helping the situation and I don't see any senior and veterans housing being built for people on fixed income why don't you take that energy and plant it into that because
the one facility that is available you got to wait for somebody to die to get in there okay and the other facilities that you've built okay you need to pack a gun to go into the neighborhood you think seniors want to
be feel safe we feel safe now but now it's even hard to drive and get out of there we don't even have a turn lane to get into our development without getting rear ended so that's basically all I have to say and I appreciate your time
and listening and uh like I said I just came here to observe but I'd also want you to be able to listen to the people who live in this area who are impacted deeply ma'am thank you very much can I ask you a question about the notice issue
so did did you get notice or how did you know about the meeting if you said you didn't get notice i was just perusing and found out about this and it was curious about all the construction on 54 in that particular lot of land and
perusing what were you perusing uh your your site our website okay so just so we're clear when the board directed that areas like yours get notice what was adopted into our code was that registered neighborhood
organizations get notice not the individual tenants so well the thing is do you know do you know if your organization registered do we get notice well the thing is we have an HOA right did your HOA register with the county to get notice of these i am not privy to that
okay i'll ask staff if they're the applicant if they notice us okay just want to make sure you got proper notices well the thing is you know I'm just saying it's impossible for the applicant to notify every tenant because they have to go by the property appraiser records but we did create a process for registered HOAs could put themselves on
a county list to get notice so okay that's why I'm asking whether your HOA put your put themselves on the county list to get notice i guess we'll find out from staff whether or not as I stated I'm not privy to that and I'm not sure but I do know that the all the residents came up and protested
McDonald's i understand but as a result of what yeah that happened the change code was that register HOAs could get notice okay thank you for clarifying i'm asking whether your HOA ever did that i like I said I'm not sure because I
wasn't on the HOA but I will advise them of this situation in case we are not that but we'll find out because if you were the applicant or staff would have included you in the in the notice list correct so we'll find out from staff or
the applicant well I appreciate it again thank you for listening and you have a happy Easter thank you you too thank you for coming uh was there anyone else there's nobody else signed up Mr chair okay
Mr chairman Clark Hobby again I'm looking through my uh notice list david get this stand there we go um I don't know that they have an association but I can see that we did notice the owner of the park so they're all renting from
this owner and I can see their name and address here i would have to look into whether there's any uh association would be unusual at this kind of park to have an association planning development economic growth um we do have the mailing list and Miss
Chisum's name is on the mailing list oh it is yes sir okay there you go there you go addresses that issue so I'll just answer a couple of the questions for the first uh um woman who was speaking just to be clear the MPUD only gives as much
flexibility as is proposed and being approved in the MPU there is no residential being proposed here there will not be any impact on schools for instance there won't be any new students and I think most of the planning commissioners are aware that what went
into creating the western hub had a variety of uh things we're trying to accomplish on the original 1183 acres but one of the main things we're trying to do and specifically on this site it had already been targeted for employment
so having employment and and industrial and particularly light industrial is one of the key components and objectives of the county and that the board set when they adopted the western hub so what we're doing is exactly what the board uh gave us direction to do about 15 years
ago and moreover before their community was even built it was already designated for heavy industrial all of the uses that we're seeking today in the business park were already allowed in that old zoning because all I1 uses are allowed
within the I2 zoning district clark could you I think it would be helpful for the lady who come up and spoke there's quite a few uses that you voluntarily agreed won't be included in the business park i think that might
help put her mind at ease yes and I don't know if we want to read all of them because it's very extensive about what's not allowed but there are a series of what would have been C2 uses uh that are specifically prohibited
within the business park and I I'll just read a few of them you can't have a standalone car wash this is really mostly what's up in the retail area but it also applies to the business park you can't have self- storage facilities you can't have garage st uh services you
can't have standalone lawn mower sales you can't have funeral homes uh propane septic tank sales solar power collection facilities archery ranges etc some of these uses might otherwise have been allowed in either a C2 zoning or I1 and
we elected to voluntarily in working with staff to limit those uses so again we're trying to create a very high-end business park here and our client knows how to do these they've done them all over the country they generate a lot of jobs and and the other thing I guess I
would also say for our our neighbor to the north we will have a signal at this site that's our objective um and we need the signal so that the trucks can safely get in and out through the business park and my suspicion is that once that signal goes in it will slow traffic uh
to a point that has not existed for our neighbors to the north they'll probably have an easier time getting out the last thing I'd say on the traffic just two kind of subsets of that because traffic was raised our timing and phasing analysis and our uh access management
analysis shows that we meet the applicable levels of service so that's been categor categorically addressed in our studies and and that's important to note but moreover if I go back and I look at what the original F was under
heavy industrial and I look at the existing zoning it would have allowed 1.5 million square ft of industrial on the site so we're basically at onethird of what has been allowed for essentially 40 years now so I think you could argue
that this is net decreasing what the entitlements could have been now there's a more asserbic argument you could make about the western hub sub areas but in general we are not trying to max this site out of what it would allow would have have allowed years ago clark could
you address the comment that it's easy to convert commercial uses in an MPU to residential in Pasco County it it is not it is I have not seen any MPU that's allowed that in I would say probably
almost a decade now and all of the newer MPUDS including this one specifically prohibit converting any of the uses from commercial to residential furthermore even if you have a land use equivalency matrix those specifically prohibit
converting non-residential to residential so it cannot occur here and so what this should be doing is giving our neighbors the asurances that we're proceeding with a plan of development under this MPU that will not have more residential and will be delivering the
jobs that we all want now I I guess I should say one other thing there was some discussion about the trail the biggest trail in this area is the Starky Trail the MPUD has two provisions that will assist in uh making that more usable for all of the residents of
Trinity one of which is we're going to we have uh provided funding to help make a connection from the business park over to Starky Trail if the uh uh Duke Energy folks will see that fit in some point but we also align the ingress egress
points and working with Mr gerardi and the rest of our team to create a system where we can safely get to the point that the county plans on there being a crossing across 54 that will better interconnect the whole system of the Starky Trail so that's all your staff
has been you know working with us for basically a year to try to make sure that those things happen it's important for the area we get it we want to be part of the solution and making a great live work u situation in our area yeah I think one of the things that I like I
live in this area too so I'm familiar with it and uh one of the things that everybody should know and realize is that this canoe connection to the Starky Park between the Starky Park and the Saranova
uh preserve that that gives us over 21,000 acres of public property that you can access which you can't access now easily from this location that's right so uh I think that's a very very very
big plus and also you know I would rather see this than a big industrial complex right behind my house so um I think there's some real benefits to to making this change so um that being
said anybody else have questions or concerns thank you okay so if not then uh hear a motion i'll move to approve item APC11 second have a motion and a second any
further discussion on the motion if not all in favor signify by saying I i i like sign for opposed okay that motion carries and this will be heard at the county commission if you uh want to go to that
meeting to state your concerns we'll have a second shot at it okay thank you uh good afternoon planning commission GA planning development and economic growth i would also like to state for
the record I had not mentioned earlier that we have no individuals signed up to speak on WebEx for general public comment or in opposition okay uh starting with the continuence items item PC1 PDE25-7688 is a zoning amendment in the
name of Riveridge MPUD MERS for LLC and a continuence to a date uncertain is being requested item PC2 PDE25-7781 a zoning amendment in the name of Enclave at Livingston MPUD and
this is coming with the request to continue the item to the May 15 2025 planning commission meeting at 1:30 p.m in Newport Richie okay let me just back you up one little minute um PC1 yes sir who's the applicant present anyone here
to object okay let's go to two number two again sorry no you're fine i got ahead of myself sorry um we're doing that a lot today that's okay item PC2 was
PDE25-7781 a zoning amendment in the name of Enclave at Livingston MPUD and this is coming with the request to continue the item to May 15 2025 planning commission meeting at 1:30 p.m in Newport Richie all right is the applicant present anyone here to object
one objection okay i guess we'll have to pull that one then what's a continuence so they they get their right to chance to speak today yeah i mean if if they if they speak today then that means they're not going to be able to speak on the
continuence date so typically somebody would only speak today if they can't be here on the date that being continued to do you understand that how that works yes would you rather speak on the day it's being continued to okay
all right okay number three item PC3 this item has a companion resoning which is item PC4 item PC3 is PTE25-0109 a comprehensive plan amendment
CPA2403 Elite 52P PD and the original request for this one was to continue the item to the May 1st 2025 in Dade City however the applicant is now requesting to continue this item as well as PC4 to the May 15 2025 planning commission at
1:30 p.m in Newport Richie may 25th he said May 15th 15th and that's same four is the applicant present okay anyone here to object no
one okay move to continue item PC1 to a date uncertain PC2 to the May 15th hearing in Newport Richie PC3 to the May 15th meeting in Newport Richie and PC4 to the May 15th meeting in Newport Richie second have a motion and a second
any further discussion on the motion if not all in favor signify by saying I i opposed like sign okay all right the first item that we have on the consent agenda today is item APC12 we're going a little bit out of order
um I would like to also note for the record that there are expertise for this item that have been submitted to the clerk's office and this item has a companion special exception which is APC13 okay item APC2 is
PTE2-7769 it's a zoning amendment in the name of Mirs for LLC for a change in zoning from a C3 commercial manufacturing district specific use to a C3 commercial slash excuse me commercial/light manufacturing district
in the northwest Pasco County on the southwest corner of the intersection of Shady Hills Road and Lenway Road east of the Sun Coast Parkway containing approximately 9.10 10 acres and this is coming with the recommendation of approval from the planning development
and economic growth department all right the applicant present anyone here to object and Mr chair can I ask that you vote on this one as a consent item separately since I'm involved in the project so I need to
abstain that's 12 12 and 13 and 13 okay okay item APC13 is a special exception to item APC12 um we now have a walk-on edit to condition of approval number five to add
the following language unless an alternative standard to allow for existing natural vegetation to be retained is approved at the time of the preliminary site plan for approval and this change has also been sent to the clerk's office okay item APC13 is
PTE25-7874 is a special exception in the name of MERS 4 LLC/MER special exception for a freestanding recreational vehicle and boat storage facility and a C3 commercial/light manufacturing district in northwest Pasco County at
the southwest corner of the intersection of Shady Hills Road and Lenway Road east of the Sun Coast Parkway containing approximately 9 1 acres and this is also coming with the recommendation of approval with conditions from the planning development and economic growth department
all right the applicant present anyone here to object okay Mr chair you want to take care of those two right now yeah is that the last uh is that the last consent item well for John but Okay
yeah let's take care of those motion to approve APC 12 and 13 second further discussion all in favor signify by saying I i oppos like sign okay noted that Mr mitt is abstaining
thank you okay item APC14 and this item has a companion substantial modification which is item PC5 item APC14 is PTE25-0144 a development agreement in
the name of Riverstone Reneer MPUD KB Homes Tampa LLC and a modification to the development agreement DA to allow for the developer to receive certificates of occupancy for 98 homes prior to the completion of road
improvements for the Reneer MPUD to clarify the terms and conditions therein and additionally rename the DA a agreement from the Reneer to Riverstone this is coming with a recommendation of approval from the planning development and economic growth department
okay companions and item PC excuse me Mr chairman can we pull that one i have a question on that one okay pull APC14 and the other one and PC5 as well okay okay okay and that one excuse me we do
have one more on the consent item PC6 which is PTE25-CU8 a conditional use in the name of Rubich Ronald C and Pacy M living Trustanet Anthemet excuse me verizon
Wireless for a 180 foot above ground level AGL closed mount monopole wireless communications facility WCF in an AC C agricultural district in south central Pasco County on the west
side of Joy Drive approximately 700 ft north of Dog Patch Lane and this is coming with a recommendation of approval with conditions from the planning development and economic growth department that is the last item we have on the consent agenda i don't need to pull but I have one quick question for
staff on that yeah yes um in the aerial photograph showing the cell tower site it shows the site is undeveloped but then on the in the construction plans included for the cell tower it shows the
site and the area around it is under a substantial amount of construction what is the construction going on in and around the tower site it's like that on Google Maps too amy if you Yeah
if the applicant's present maybe they can answer it even quicker quicker i don't Is the applicant present is the applicant present guess not is there anybody else here to speak on that matter hi this is Tracy Moore uh
515 5151 Headquarters Drive Sweet 170 Plano Texas i have been sworn um uh I am the applicant for Anthem Net and the property has been zoned or reszoned for
I believe it's the dog training park by the landlord which I believe is mostly developed now at the time our aerial was done i believe the shots in the underlay hadn't been developed yet if that answers the question so it's a dog training park that's what she said
correct okay all right that answers the question it's huge big goats must like to swim yeah yeah i see storm water ponds and everything okay thank you that was the last item
that we had on the agenda are there any other questions from up here nobody from the public I asked um so William did you have something oh I was just gonna I was getting ready to answer Mr tanella's questions about
the the rend well we're pulling we're not on that that's getting pulled oh fully pulled yeah yeah we're going to hear that in just a second well then I'll So then PC6 is the only thing on the consent yes all right then I move to approve item PC6 i'll second have a motion and a
second further discussion all in favor signify by saying I i i oppos like sign okay the first item that we have on the regular agenda is item PC7 a reszoning in the name of Flex-C Odessa Town Center
SE presented by staff are we doing that before let's just let's do the one that was please was 14 and five do you want a full presentation from staff on or No no no okay i just I mean I was looking at this
reading through it i just want to make sure that the road's still going to be built and then we're not going to be left holding the bag with the county so that's all I wanted to know william Vermillion Planning Development Economic Growth yeah the the cross-section that was already approved is still going to be constructed by the applicant as it was approved previously by the board of
county commissioners including that multi-use trail it's just increasing the trigger from 66 CO's to 98 the the construction's already bonded and been bid on okay yes sir thank you okay
so I'll move approval of consent items A PC14 and PC5 okay second any further discussion not all in favor signify by saying I i post like sign okay
motion carries good afternoon amy Tol with planning development and economic growth give a moment for the PowerPoint to be loaded get okay uh today you're hearing PTE25-7862 it's a special exception for
a spe a special exception request for a private school or gymnastic training facility in an AR agricultural residential district uh this is uh located within the Odessa Town Center uh plan development so the proposal is a special
exception request uh the request as stated before is to allow for a private school gymnastic training facility subject site is located within an AR agricultural zoning district or agriculture residential zoning district and a future land use of PD plan
development it is also within the Odessa town center sub area policy uh the facility is expected uh or requesting to be a 31,500 foot private school private school facility uh to allow for or serve approximately 1,400 students is located
on the northwest corner of the intersection of Old Gun Highway and Interlac and Road here's a general location for the subject site located within the South Market area and the urban service area your context map to highlight what's in
proximity of the proposed special exception your aerial view of the proposed site the zoning is currently AR oh I'm sorry that was backwards the future land use is currently
PD and the zoning is currently AR so the project overview subject site contains currently a single mobile or manufactured home on approximately two acres uh the access to the property is from Old Gun Highway a countymaintained
local road and approximately 60 ft of rightway as well as Interlen Road a county maintained collector road with 70 ft of rightway uh we have added recommended conditions for the special exception so I will read through them uh at time of
preliminary development plan and/or preliminary site plan the owner applicant shall provide a parking study to determine the required parking based on similar gymnastics facilities in Florida since the LDC does not have a required parking ratio for this training
this type of training facility uh the hours of operation will be limited to Monday through Thursday from 9:00 a.m to 9:00 p.m and Friday through Sunday from 9:00 a.m to 10:00 p.m the owner applicant uh shall provide cross access to the parcel to the west and
north and then at time of preliminary development plan and or preliminary site plan the owner applicant shall provide a sidewalk along the project's old gun highway frontage which uh shall be a minimum of 5t in width and at time of
preliminary development plan and or preliminary site plan the owner applicant shall provide a six-foot minimum to an 8 foot maximum with any combination of an opaque fence no wood or chain link a wall burm or hedge with
plantings of one to five uh linear feet along the north and west property line within the required buffer and this is the proposed conceptual plan parking situated along the frontage with the use set back to
the rear and we have uh the required standards as part of the special exception that the proposal is consistent with and meets uh LDC section 402.4F and with that we recommend approval of conditions from planning development and economic growth and I'd
be happy to answer any questions you may have can you just go back to the slide on the hours of operation sure okay got it okay okay any questions for questions as far as the parking and I guess they would have some meets there
at some point like a gym you know competition or something possibly would there be any overflow parking because I know from just from other sports the parents are all coming and Sure anything like that at this point in time we haven't considered overflow parking um
but we could bring up the applicant and have that discussion see if there's a consideration since they have to do a parking study at site plan approval on they're going to base it on other gymnastics facilities that presumably would have similar events so I think that's why staff imposed that condition
is because gymnastics facilities do typically have a lot of parking and so they wanted to make sure that the parking was sufficient to accommodate this kind of event okay that's fine thank you exact i mean I have a similar concern with this location i mean it's right next to with the interlocking right there and being a main road i mean
there's going to be overflow parking i mean there's almost an identical size gym around the corner that gym is sufficiently underparked and it has almost the same number of parking spaces as shown on their concept plan and it's exact same size building gotcha um so I
mean we need to be careful on that one because that's parking is going to be a problem okay understood great okay thank you anything else all right is the applicant present any people here to speak about
it any objections no thank you shelley Johnson 6400 Madison Street and I have been sworn um I know we have a couple people that here that do want to speak but we're good with all of the conditions of approval and the staff's recommendation and I'm here with my team to answer any questions that you all may have okay have you considered the
parking issue yeah and that is something that that's why that condition is in there um because I think you know Mike Razer who our is our traffic engineer is going to do a parking study when we get to that point in the process to make sure that you know we're complying with whatever the needs are and obviously if there's a need for a variation they're
going to have to get the alt standard to to get that approved so um you know if it happens it happens if it doesn't it doesn't but unless they you know reduce the be clear there wouldn't be a variation because the condition says we don't currently have a standard for gymnastics abilities
so correct it's whatever the study says you're required to do is what you're required to do okay yeah so yeah they would have to do the study in order to not comply with the code obviously so all right or whatever they decide the code is at the time
okay um anyone who'd like to speak on this one uh please come forward just state your name and address please and let us know what your concerns are jim Spivey address 1349 Interlockan and Old Gun
Highway uh my understanding where's the storm water is going off the site is it going off site or is there a retention pond in that size of a building what I understand the parking has to be anywhere from 107 to 170
parking i just don't see that being efficient there i mean you're talking uh what a 31,000 square foot building and then 100 to 107 parking lots for that lot and the retent and are they taking
any more rideway on Old Gun Highway yeah I those are some of the things that we're just questioning ourselves about the number of parking spaces and concept drawing shows 85 parking spaces actually I don't think the uh 85 that was just
the conception point it doesn't show any storm water retention right yeah so those are concerns we have yeah both of those things that was the only concerns I have but I mean I'm not trying to stop development I'm in
construction myself but I was just understanding the the parking in old gun highway are they paving any of that or is it going to stay i've been down dirt roads better than that road i mean the traffic is going to come off of old 54
down Gun Highway past where Lowe's is at or is it all and then it's going to come down off of Gun Highway and Interlac yeah David isn't there a condition there is a yeah there's a condition um or there's a requirements I guess
it's mentioned in finding uh 14 that says they've got to cons reconstruct old gun highway to to meet mining county standards from interlocking from their access point to interlocking you're going to have an entrance off of
Interlock and then off of Gun Highway yes and they have to reconstruct it from their entrance to Interlockin is what the finding 14 says right yeah and then there'll be a process where they have to go through to get their number of parking approved and also their drainage
so that's all it's all going to have to be done but I mean getting to the parking point I mean it the concept plan is only a concept plan it's not the final plan they're going to have to provide whatever parking and storm water the code requires if they can't fit it
on their site they're either going to have to enter into an agreement with Lowe's or build a parking structure or whatever it is that they got to do to make sure they've got adequate parking right or reduce the size of the building or reduce the size of the building but in theory they could build a parking
deck if they really had to that's it yeah but they still have to provide for parking and it's perhaps to provide for storm drainage so I mean like like David was saying the concept plan we had to have is just a concept it's not a not an approved plan okay
there's also vacant land around them so in theory they could buy that land for parking as well right but the stud is going to say what they what parking they have to provide and they're going to have to provide it so well I mean if there's going to be
gymnastics or whatever I'm sure they're going to be having tournaments there or whatever for you know quite a bit of traffic right that's why the condition requires them to look at similar gymnastics facilities in the area to determine the required parking
okay I understand okay all right thank you thank you very much appreciate it the next individual we have signed up for comment on this item is Ricky Miller mr miller have you just given us your full name and address i'm Ricky Miller i
live uh 2026 Old Gun Highway which is across the street of Gun Highway from this project uh I uh have two things I want to one is
about the retention pond this size of building has quite a bit of water runoff which has to be addressed i'm sure um that's not been other than what y'all
mentioned as far as the plans there's been nothing that we can find on this problem but because I don't want Mr spivey and myself to accept the excess water like they did Mr
heat uh the other one is the road on Gun Highway between uh Interlac and where the old project was from
um Lowe's uh is one lane and barely uh what would you say upkeep on it has been not of the greatest of essence um
so if you travel down this road you have to go to the rightway to pass somebody and if this is not corrected someone is really going to get hurt uh because there's blind spot coming in
on inner lake and the people cannot see it what's coming up gun highway uh the other thing was uh I forgot what it was oh that's okay we got a minute but yeah but let me just
touch base with our county attorney on the on the road that's the is that the road he's talking about David that going to have to be done to county specs so if you look at the concept plan that the road that we're talking about
is on the east side of the project it's called Old Goen Highway and it the the finding requires them to reconstruct it to county standards from that entrance they're showing on Gun Highway south to Interlocking that's the part they'd have
to build north of that point they don't really connect to that part so um I thought that Lowe's had made some improvements to that road i don't I'm I'm asking staff i thought they had
But did you understand what he said about the part doesn't Nick you want to stand up or you understand that one do what did you understand the part of what he talked about about the part that would be improved well that would be the other thing because I've taken my
grandchildren to these facilities and they park everywhere and anywhere right and it's going to be if it's one lane it's going to cause a problem somewhere down the line I'm sure
and uh this is what I we're concerned about right so well we have the county engineer here so we'll ask him the question yeah he uh supposedly he uh done a road count and in the middle of
the day and uh since the load's been put in they they I think they really need a accurate bipartisan uh count on that particular road because it has increased tenfold
so uh that's what that's my concern okay all right thank you thank you so if somebody can staff could clarify what Lowe's was or Patrick do you know what anybody know what Lowe's was required to
do on that road good afternoon Nikki Red county engineer i love those glasses by the way you can borrow them um Lowe's reconstructed Old Gun Highway from State Road 54 to the southern end of their detention pond so they did not
go all the way to Interlockan it is a dirt road from their southern terminus to um to interlock it so I guess if this project has to reconstruct it from their entrance to interlock and there might still be a patch of dirt there will be a patch of dirt between their driveway and
the southern um drainage pond for the lows and the premise behind that is by not obligating this property to construct the rest of old gun highway is that they're pres proposing access from interlocking that they don't their presumption is that their customers will
not be coming from the north and I think when when they go request their access management that the driveway on Old Gun will actually get probably moved closer to the northern property line i don't know if you can put the site plan up on
the screen so Nick can see that but it's a corner parcel so I think they'll end up having to pave and fix more of old gun than what this plan might show yeah there's pl there somewhere yeah just put if you show the concept
plan I think Nick will probably agree that that driveway on Old Gun will actually move there it is north since they're a corner parcel i'm not asking you to approve his access today i'm just saying in general in access management we try to get those
driveways as far away from the corners as we can mr um that that we would absolutely like to see that driveway moved to the north and it also would prevent that the dead end parking that they're currently proposing it's actually more of old gun that'll better circulation on site better operations on the major roads great
thank you Nick so I do have a question for staff um I'm not sure who to answer it but what is the purpose of the concept plan that is submitted with the special exception application i don't think any
of them are listening to me right now so not you Nick sorry i'm asking Amy or David Engel or anybody that can answer my question i'm just trying to figure out the general purpose of a concept plan that is submitted with a special exception request
because I understand the parking is still up in the air but do we have to accept them with no storm water plan shown on storm water pond shown on them i mean well you could go underground well there's a lot of things that are required they're required for cross access for example doesn't there a
condition that requires them to cross access connection to the north and to the west it requires a sidewalk along Old Gun Highway so I mean there's a lot of things that are required for the conditions that aren't shown on the concept plan so I had a similar question right i mean but but you would think that if the purpose of it is to show
that hey I can at least fit this building on the site they should at least show some storm water pump or some how they're going to even if it's not a fully engineered plan but I I'll let Mr engel answer well that thank you David Engel planning and economic development
director so uh the concept site plan is not really typical of a special exception it's just establishing the criteria for special exception and our position is is that the building whatever that footprint is at site plan is not to exceed 31,000 square
feet all the requirements if it's if it doesn't mean anything why do we require it at all I guess is my question I don't do we required any I I don't well they almost all have well at some point aren't you aren't you at some point a deviation from the concept concept
becomes so dramatic that it no longer resembles a concept and so I I understand this is not an engineered plan and it's to give us an idea but I think there's still a reason behind it like say for instance we were particular about having a certain amount of in fact
I think one of the conditions addressed buffering and the type of buffering making sure we understand where that falls and what we're buffering against if there are residences there that we're trying not to disturb so there's clearly a purpose for the concept plan i guess I thought the
purpose was roadway access the way it was explained to me previously was that the primary purpose is to show that there's a way they can fit the special exception use on the site like that there's we're not we're not approving something that's just not feasible at
all at least that's what was described to me previously well you know as I've been told by engineers there's an engineering solution for everything but there's a cost so obviously we talked about parking decks uh underground storm water
storage not to say that this is going to take place but um we wanted to be clear about buffering and road access on this project that's why we asked the plan to be produced okay well maybe Mr money is correct i
guess they could put put in underground storm water and parking decks and it illustrates the development footprint for this property what they do inside that footprint has to be consistent with our land development code along those lines I have a question
David Goldstein does the special exception exclude them from the building coverage requirements in the that zoning category generally reason the reason I'm asking that question is is in AR zoning
district which is his AR property correct yes there's a a building limit to no more than 25% of the total lot area which would be 21,000 and change good catch
so the way it's been explained to us and I I think they set it out in the memo a little bit is because it's in the Odessa Town Center overlay and that PD the design standards because part of that overlay is to try to encourage interconnectivity you know the live work play concept and so those design
standards in that overlay actually apply versus the AR design standards so the F is actually 3.0 on this so you're actually looking at potentially under the plan the Odessa overlay you could probably get a little over 261,000 on this little piece where
in this instance we're just doing the 315 or below wait can we back up because there's a difference between F and F is F is the sum total of all all floor divided by the the site area whereas coverage is the first floor area over
the site area my understanding is that the overlay standards are what apply and I don't think the overlay standards address the lot coverage correct Amy do they uh Amy toll planning development economic growth that's correct the lot
coverage will be subject to the zoning district but the FAR applies to the square footage I apologize I was wrong so they could point how how can we allow this square footage where they have to do it in stories correct they go vertical the F yeah
right so they could still meet the 25% lot coverage but they would have to go vertical getting more expensive they may need to go vertical put this out there i looked at this when this came to us before it was continued and
my first impression was good luck i been doing this a long time and I'll just say to put that size building on that size site is probably a long shot but to Mr engel's point if you got
enough money you can engineer anything gymnastics is expensive i can speak from experience it be really not personal but maybe there's enough margin in it to cover the cost of that building insurance for it okay come on up
uh good afternoon michael Razer with Razer Transportation Consulting um our firm prepared the substandard road application uh specific to the discussion regarding Old Gun Highway um as we have heard this afternoon we're
anticipating a couple of tweaks to the concept plan before it becomes a site plan and at that time um in addition to the already known uh reconstruction of gun highway from old gun highway rather from interlock into the project driveway
we will be subject to another substandard road application at the time of site plan permitting which will look at the specific plan in place at that time as submitted and if there are by code requirements for the gap between
what Lowe's had done and what we're already know that we're required to do um those would come out of that phase of um of of permitting and approval thank you any questions for Mike i'll ask Mike can I come back up the 85
parking spaces that are on here this concept plan now that's not based on any study you've done that's correct i The first time I've really heard about the parking was today um other than knowing that we have the condition that indicates we're going to need to do a parking study um and I'm
familiar with how to do those parking studies and we'll go out and we'll study in coordination with staff with the methodology and identify what's needed for the site and propose that when we get to permitting okay all right thank you
okay everybody had a chance to speak okay do you get your questions answered back there all the way in the back you got your questions answered yeah you were both raising your hand
earlier okay thank you all right having uh everybody spoken um there motion I'll move to approve the item
i'll second have a motion and a second further discussion not all in favor signify by saying I i like sign okay got a lot of work left to do
on that one okay item P8 will be presented by Rose Stevens all right thank you hello Rose good afternoon i Stevens Planning Development and Economic Growth okay before you is PTE
257822 it's a special exception request in the name of Irma Whitmer and Dog Kennel the applicant is requesting a special exception for a dog kennel a dog boarding and breeding kennel with a maximum of 25 dogs on
approximately 4.40 acres the zoning is AR Agricultural Residential District and the future land use is RES 3 just some background on February 26 2024 the subject site received a warning notice
issued for operating a kennel on AR zone with 34 domesticated dogs without a special exception permit and the number of swine observed was 12 on AR property of 4.0 4.40 or zero acres to exceeds the one per acre limitation so the property
is located on the west side of two lane street approximately 340 ft of Cordell Street we are in located in the central market area outside of the urban concentration area and the rural
areas here is a context map ariel and future land use we've got the north east south and west all res 3 and zoning also north east south and west a the subject site contains a mobile
manufactured home on approximately 4.40 40 acres as mentioned before access to the property is on two-lane street it's a privately maintained local roadway with approximately 50 ft of rideway the subject is not located near any or is
not located adjacent to any trails this special exception proposal meets all the following standards pursuant of LDC section 402.4F 4f and with that it is the recommendation is for approval with conditions from the planning development
and economic growth department here if you have any questions I've also asked animal services and code compliance to be here in case you have questions for them sure yeah so you said it was like a year ago the applicant was giving a warning notice
how did that happen how what caused it did the neighbor call and complain about the dogs or code enforcement happened to drive by or I believe it was the neighbors that's why I'm understanding it the neighbors
called we know what the ne why the neighbors called what the complaint was do you want to have bring up the code enforcement officer it's probably not fair to okay ask these questions to Rose why not if you're on the spot if you have I'm just saying we have if the code
enforcement officer here we might as well ask get the questions answered by the code enforcement officer animal services here okay for animal services thank you whoever whoever responded to this complaint John Douglas I work for animal services code enforcement is not here that I can
see i worked with them on the original case the officer was I worked with him on the case to my knowledge I was explained that there was someone in the area complaining about their property and when they showed up that's when they found all the animals
on the property that's when they asked me to come and uh work with them on that so all right so what I'm trying to figure out was the complaint it would be helpful if the officer was here because I'm trying to understand is the complaint about their property or was
the complaint about the dogs or the pigs or looks like there's all kinds of issues here so I don't know what the initial complaint was because you can't really see any of the animals from any street so I don't know what their complaint could have been and the way the house is
situated they're so far away from everything and they live next to a swamp that's you can't habit okay you can't see them hear them or smell them no not from one side there is a neighbor on the other side but they're so far away i
don't know if it was Barkin i didn't receive any complaints from animal services for that go ahead if I may Denise Hernandez code compliance department so there was a uh there was a complaint about several
things on the property having to do um with decaying vegetative matter and some other nuisance items um and then the complaint was also for the the dogs on the property and then our code officer
as is required that person goes out to the property and takes a look at the property holistically as to what other violations are on the property and there was another violation as well which had to do with not having the street address on the site so um these this property um
two of the items have been resolved come into compliance and then this one regarding the dogs there was a citation issued and we're just waiting on on this process too i guess what I'm trying to figure out did he was the main complaint about the dogs
themselves or you said it was decaying vegetation decaying vegetative matter and then also the dogs so those were two complaints what's specifically about the dogs do you know I mean the number of dogs on the property the number of dogs on the property that had exceeded the number that is allowed by the code
without having a special exception which is n so the person called out 50 dogs on the property according to the complaint oh okay all right got it so they weren't complaining about noise or dogs running loose or any of that it was just the
complaint does not state that the person was complaining about noise just had to do with the numbers okay okay and then when you got there what what were the dogs in I mean being taken care of properly were they
in clean quarters and they met all minimum standards what does that mean they had shelter they had sanitary living conditions they had food they had water okay minimum standards are indeed very minimum for animals
all right i'm trying not to put you on the spot why um well no i I'm trying to get an idea he's saying the m met the minimum standards but the minimum he's I think he's implying that
the minimum standards aren't exactly hard to meet i mean your let's just say there if you had a dog that you needed to board would this place that you brought
your dog to board need to be better or as good or not as good as what you saw i don't I'm not asking if you'll board it at this place but just trying to get an idea what we're working on no pictures or anything we look at do they have
required shelter do they have three sides a roof and a wall and a ceiling as far as shelter that's a minimum standard that's what I look at did they have that they did they had little individual doghouses did they have an area where they could get out if there was feces to use the restroom they had that did they
have water they had that as far as a boarding facility it's hard to compare the two because a boarding facility they're doing that for their business like that and Okay were all the dogs healthy yes right so they're sanitary
they're healthy were they all of one breed or variety of breed they were multiple breeds multiple breeds okay i don't have any more questions about that okay good oh yeah actually I do
i don't want to ask about dogs i want to ask about the pigs and did you look at the pigs too the pigs are handled by the sheriff's office that's livestock that's not That's not in the county or Well but it just Well but I think they
were cited as a zoning violation for having too many livestock is that correct you get the ticket per acre yeah and maybe Denise can elaborate on that i don't think it's exclusively the sheriff's office i think it's a zoning violation if you have too many numbers
livestock that That's correct they were cited for that as well and let me look at the case notes to see if that was um remedied because well I see it's a condition there's a condition of approval and that's actually something I'm going to ask you David
they're asking for a special exception for a dog breeding housing kennel but there are conditions of approval that have to do with pigs and the number of pigs and how long they have to get rid of pigs and it just seems like we're talking about
apples and oranges well but if it was a violation that is not been remedied since it a special exception is a discretionary approval okay i think you can make them come into compliance with the code before you grant I mean that's a zoning violation so I think
your special exception could cure the zoning violation yeah and in addition this has already gone to court so that may may be part of the agreement through the court system and we're just incorporating that into the file i mean I think you have to understand
the reason part of the purpose of code enforcement is to bring the site into compliance so I don't think it's necessarily a good idea for you to approve a special exception and then we're still prosecuting them for another violation you know what I think the what I'm trying to understand in my mind is
okay let's just make the assumption we approve a special exception and then code enforcement comes out not on a call about pigs or dogs about decaying vegetative matter which isn't a condition of
approval that doesn't make their special exception go away if they get cited for not having their street number on properly posted on the house but in this case we're making tying the pigs to it
well I would argue that pigs have a more relationship to dogs i mean there's it's still an animal on the property and so it appears the staff is concerned about the number of animals on the property in general so I mean if you
had 300 pigs there may not be enough room for the dogs i mean there's they're somewhat related to each other when you talk about the number of animals on the site well I recognize that in the zoning code there's a limitation on or the density of pigs or grazing animals on
the site i'm not saying it's not a violation i'm just trying to figure out how that ties into a dog that's all 4.4 pigs in this case i think Well all the sheriff's it's four i don't think Yeah you can have a point4 of a pig yeah you never know
you could and a live pig um but I believe staff was just trying to make sure that if the special exception is approved the property will come into compliance with the outstanding violations yeah and I can also add to that and
there's three separate code enforcement complaints the one regarding the dog kennel and the pigs is in the same complaint so it was handled together okay okay now if the applicant says they can't get rid of their pigs down to four then I
guess we can have that conversation again but I I believe the applicant's in agreement with these conditions is my understanding but we'll see here also if you have any questions for her specifically okay if you'd like to come forward
please state your name and address arena Vitmar 113152 Lane Street Newport okay so you're applying for a special exception for for how many dogs i have
21 right now currently adult size and I'm still looking for few homes for a couple of the babies and how many pigs i actually don't have any i gave them all to my son oh okay so you only have dogs
yes have only dogs and and you want to limit it to only dogs and are you running a breeding operation or a boarding operation a rescue no this is a rescue it's it's a misunderstanding i was breeding occasionally but just
pretty much like a hobby i'm not doing it anymore and um they are my babies i have mostly chihuahua the small three to four pounds most of them live in my house chihuahua do I have couple um of
the Frenches and one Great Dane and they are um in and off out or outside or inside uh all all of the complaints about code enforcement um happened when I just moved to that property and I had
no idea I had to have a house number and all of this i corrected it right away um when I bought the property um the lady who owned this she didn't take care of it so it was overgrown and it was it had
a junkyard in it i had to when I moved in within a two months I had to pull out tons of tires and a metal and concrete and all the vegetation i had to take care of it and now it looks beautiful
and I can enjoy it it's not in a condition it was when I moved in i lived on it only a year and three months okay so are you in agreement with this conditions of staff presented to you yes
okay totally in agreement everything was dropped all the charges no um I have no nothing against me right now except of dogs okay and also I want to say I am veterinarian
so I'm taking care of animals this is my profession and I am also a veteran which my dogs are my emotional support animals they are really greatly helping me to go through hard times you're a licensed
veterinarian i think she licensed in Florida actually late for job right now try to go and help community we do vaccination clinics all over Florida very good okay uh thank you very much any
questions to the applicant okay is anybody here to speak on this all right you want to come forward give us your name and address hi my name is Nika Coats um I live 9617 Branching Ship Trace in Wesley Chapel
Florida um I own a piece of uh I own a lot uh right down the street from Two Lane so I got the notification which is why I'm here my main concern is with this special exception how it's going to affect uh my property value um my
intention was to or hopefully is to build on my lot but if this is going to be you know something that is going to be allowed I'm not sure that I'm going to want to continue that plan so that's my concern is it loud i'm sorry is it
loud i know she said that she had I don't live there i have I have a lot there so she said she said she had mostly Chihuahua i don't imagine they're too loud but I'm just imagining it i I don't know um what the breeds of
dogs and what their volume levels are so again my main concern is is how this special exception is going to affect my property volume how big is your property um I have almost a half acre
okay and I'm right off of two lane and manity how is it from this property can we put it on a map you said it's a corner of two lane and manatee yes so I'm right past two lane on Manatee Avenue so yeah right in that area um on
the other side yeah so where that house is my my lot is directly across from that house yes there and the subject site where the yellow dot is It's quite a ways from there
chair chair Mr chair you're the closest thing to a real estate expert property values well you know my you my experience is is that if they're loud it can affect you know your
your peace and quiet because I I did live near near a a dog pound but they were all big hunting dogs and uh and I don't know how far that is from from there to there because I don't know what the scale is on this
but it looks like there's quite a quite a bit of Buff between those two locations my sense is that with the type of dog she's got it pro probably won't be very loud between where you are and where
that is it looks like it might be thousand feet maybe you think John jamie I don't know can you hit the measuring thing on mapper right right and if she's continuing to you know house the rescue dogs or the kennels it
she's going to be limited on the number of dogs she's going to have okay she can't have 50 dogs on the property so are there It looks like there's other homes between the proposed kennel and this
property that owned by somebody right like 500 feet 5 600 feet i guess what I'm my point is that if the if the noise was a concern don't you think that one of the closer neighbors would have shown up today yeah that Yeah
that's exactly what I'm saying you know that uh I had that experience but they were completely different kind of dogs you know were you closer than this distance i was about that distance but the but the
u you know you could put a limitation on kind of dogs well but everybody's gonna have a different opinion on sometimes for some people a small yappy dog's a little more annoying than a big Yeah they just got from all sides you got the biggest the great game down to the
Chihuahua so 600 plus feet so that's two football fields that's how I measure everything that's why that was my main concern in regards to how that's going to affect
building have you spoken to your neighbor that's right across the No I have not okay all right anything else you want to add to it or any other questions i have a question yeah under the code just a normal person living there how
many dogs can they have nine huh nine nine okay all right what I was What I was thinking is that anyway they could sort of like have some kind of graduated thing so when maybe the dogs pass away you know have your dogs
now but slowly i don't know enough i don't know if that's a some kind of condition that the dogs would you know dwindle down to get to that point at some point otherwise you don't add any new dogs right do we know Denise the proximity of the neighbor
that made the initial complaint are they like right next door are they around the block no the person who made the complaint I'm I'm not going to disclose the address but does not live in that area whatsoever oh okay and there is no need to have be an
affected party in order to make a complaint about I I understand that okay does not live in the area at all nowhere near there gotcha that's important is there a way for you to look up whether we receive complaints from any of the adjacent
property owners for this specific location right yeah the only complaints that I have are those three complaints and they're from a person that is nowhere near this area you have no nothing in your system from
for any complaints from the immediate neighbors though that is correct well I'm not trying to be argumentative but I thought the law was changed that we can't make anonymous code enforcement complaints it is not an anonymous code
enforcement complaint i just don't know if it's appropriate for me to disclose the address of the person who put the complaint right now should I say that David do you want me to state what the address is i I don't care oh okay no no it's not anonymous it's not an anonymous complaint i mean I'm not sure it's
relevant for purposes of That's what I say i don't It's on Grand Boulevard she address one of the neighbors that's the It's on Grand Boulevard i don't think you can hear them from there yeah well I mean I I don't I don't think
it's a bad idea to you know along the lines that you suggested Richard that might might be a thought down to a minimum number um that would give her some time to make the adjustment but um you know anybody can have up to nine
dogs so can I can I ask the lady to come back up so We're going to keep I'm trying to Well no i'm trying to understand her purpose and intent the special exception says
it's a breeding and boarding kennel but she tells us it's a rescue and that it's not a breeding so the I'm trying to understand what it is we're trying to do do you just need to have 21 do you feel the need to have 21 pet dogs or or am I
running a business boarding these things or No I I own these dogs for over 10 years they are my personal pets i am not trying to get gain any more dogs i am actually trying to downsize and find a
good home for few more i can ma I'm managing them just fine and they just my personal pets really are and it's hard to explain because when you don't have this many animals you
don't understand maybe that but I am attached to all of them and they love me and our shelter's full of animals i just provided them a great home and it's hard for me to um give them
away and yes they will pass eventually i have a dog who is 10 years old already and they will pass and I I'm not planning to keep gaining more dogs there is not a plan my plan is to get downsized a little bit more so to
clarify it's not really a rescue per se you're not really trying to continue to rescue animals and find homes for them i rescue these animals but I'm not planning to bring any more animals okay so you're not intending to run an active rescue not intending to run a breeding
kennel no it's not a breeding kennel at all i don't I didn't even purchase the license for next year so I'm not breeding it's just my personal pets i'm spending time with them they are uh situated when they outside they're
situated in the middle of my property i'm building a privacy fence which and planting some um plants to prevent the noise going across so I'm trying to prevent all of
this i also use um anti-barking colors on the bigger dogs chihuahua cannot have those and they never bark at night because I do have this protection because we all want to sleep and get rest i am taking care of it so
can I ask you a followup question so what is your target number of dogs that you're trying to get downsized to my target is it's hard it's very hard but my target is at least 17 at the at the minimum that's it
maximum sorry maximum and based on the current age of your dogs how long would it how long do you anticipate it'll take you to get down to 17 assuming they all live their natural life natural life
oh most of them are pretty young so I want to say maybe the first one maybe another five years max one of them i'm just saying if under your current plan how long do you think it would take you to get to 17 oh
and under and current plan probably I want to say four months maybe five at the most because you're trying to find homes for them so you're not you're not so you not another four but I guess if you couldn't Well in her defense if she can't find a home I'm assuming she
doesn't want to kill them so she probably would keep them so I mean that's why I'm asking in a worst case scenario how long would it take you to get down to 17 in a worst case case scenario probably a
month to find a good rescues and give them there oh so there's other rescues you would put them at there is no other rescue maybe my family would take some my friends i mean the planning commissioner
was inclined to add to condition one and say that within a year she'll reduce the number to the maximum number would be 17 i mean you could do that if that's your intended that's what you're trying to do doesn't appear that would be
inconsistent with what she's proposing the thing I'm struggling with is she's not proposing to actually operate a kennel she's not proposing to operate a dog rescue she's not
proposing to operate a breeding operation it's more like she's here asking for a variance to the maximum number of dogs and I'm wondering is the variance the better well vehicle than the special exception this is not the
first time this has happened though i mean there's been other now typically it's more active rescue where they're continuing to take in dogs but unfortunately by sort of by operation of law our code says that to exceed nine
dogs you need a special exception for a kennel regardless of whether your purpose is so and that may be for a reason because it's probably hard for code enforcement or animal services to figure out i I'll just say this is she breeding is she giving you know is she
rescuing i mean I don't know that let me ask the zoning person something who's that can one keep animals on the property if there's not a principal structure can one have an agricultural is a dog
shelter an agricultural building denise you want to answer that for for code purposes enforcement purposes sure a dog shelter is not an agricultural bu building so you cannot have a a special that use without a principal structure
like a home you mean residence or residence right the principal structure would be a um an actual site built home mobile home manufactured is a chicken coupe an agricultural structure it it could be yes so in the AR in the
in the AR district for example it specifically calls out what um agricultural structures are and a chicken coupe is considered farm animal and an agricultural structure yes but not a dog that is correct okay were you worried about your
chickens no I was going to suggest she go split her lot in two she's probably a parent parcel then she can have 18 dogs legally in fact I guess if she puts another mobile home over there then she can have 18 dogs and there's nothing we can do about it i'm willing to do anything honestly at
this point because it was my plan to build a home there anyway she has an application before you i think you could act on that without making her split her lot or build a new home well I if your concern is the number of dogs you could you could add to condition one that requires her to reduce it to a specific
number personally I'm not even Well other than she needs to comply with the zoning regulations i agree with that but the problem that I'm having with this case is none of the complainant is in Newport Richie on Grand Boulevard somewhere so it's somebody's vendetta
against whomever this woman is they weren't even affected by the dogs she doesn't have any pigs and she's not trying to operate a cattle well then you could just approve her application i'm not sure what you're Yeah but doesn't the special exception
run with the land yes it does if it's not personal to her correct yes although we have in the past we have in the past occasionally imposed a condition that the special exception I'd feel more comfortable I'd feel more comfortable if the special exception was
personal to her what I'm concerned about is that she sells the property to somebody to operate a dog kennel or rescue or which isn't her intent here i'm not saying so you could impose a condition
that it says that it expires you know upon I think we have standard conditions we've used in the past and staff would have to figure research them but I think it basically says that expires upon the sale of the property or her death or what we have to go back and look at the
language we normally use but we we could we could impose a condition saying that it's personal to her if that's if the planning commission You could also put a time limit on it well we just talked about that you could
but but remember that if you put a time limit that's going to require to get down to nine and what I'm hearing her say is that she may never get there in her lifetime she she's she's trying to get down to 17
so if you if you put a time limit she'd have to get down to nine at some point okay I understand but by tying it to her that's also likely less effect on neighboring property properties and property value as well not none but less because at
least it's a finite time right in other words I can't she can't if we put a condition on like that then she can't go advertise her property as hey buy 4.4 acres in Moon Lake approved for dog kennel or breeding facility correct
okay well If David can craft such language then I would be yeah I don't have it memorized form of a motion but we if you just make a motion to that we add a condition that the special exception is personal to the applicant we can craft the condition so
moved second or how many dogs the way it was written way it was written it was up to 25 on Um I have a problem with 25 dogs we got to limit the number of dogs is there Well I'd be willing to amend such motion if there's a reasonable
amount of dogs you think is Well she stated 17 i mean I think I mean she's already said she's in the process of farming some of them out you know so I think at some stage within the next 12 months she should get down to like 12
dogs somewhere in that vicinity it gives her a buffer but you know I think in you know in deference to the person that came up here to speak she does have property in that area and she is concerned about it enough to be here
today i agree you know and and I and I would be too so I mean I think we're giving her some leeway by giving her 12 dogs and giving her a year to get to get to that stage and then but just like you say uh
we need I still think we need the language about if she sells it well that's already part of his existing motion well so the motion's been seconded does it have to be voted on and remotioned or Okay probably the best
thing to do is just to be take action on that that part of the motion and then we'll figure out if somebody wants to make another motion on the number of dogs so I'll get to vote against my own motion right i think it's going to get too complicated if you make it a two-part motion let's just The motion that's on
the floor is to limit the special exception to her personally okay all in favor signifying by saying I I oppos like sign nay nay roll call so it's limiting to Can I ask a question
we're going to by saying nay we're going to start over with the motion and get it all right is that correct yeah the motion was just to add that condition let's be clear oh okay that's why I
thought the motion okay let's start over okay my understanding of your motion was that you were making a motion to add a condition that the special exception be personal to the applicant with the exact language be determined by county attorney's office and staff after
this meeting if we want to do this one step at a time then yes that was my motion okay let's get a vote on the motion to add that condition of approval we're not taking action on the whole special exception or anything else just it's a motion to add that condition is
that still Jamie's second by the way yes let's be glad you're not the chair okay all in favor signify by saying I i i okay n like sign nay all right i think that one
passed okay now you've added that condition as a be personal to the applicant now if anybody wants to make another motion please make it okay so now we would like to make a motion to add a condition that the number of dogs on the property be reduced to 12
within the next 12 months is there a second i'll second it any further discussion of the motion all in favor signify by saying I hi n like sign
do these dogs go to school so So yeah I guess I can't vote on it so um you can't vote on this so I think we need we need a roll let's do a roll call vote on that motion please
well did Richard second it i did so you Oh then he shouldn't be seconding either let's start over that one again on that one too any any second to the motion other than Mr tanello i second my own motion it wasn't your motion it was my motion yes you can you
can second it second mr chair before we vote just a quick question was there something special to the number 12 i mean she's allowed nine she asked for said she could get down to 17 there's nothing special to number to the to the 12 but I know from my own
experience that if you have you know 17 to 20 dogs they're going to make a noise well I I mean I would make the argument that 10 to 12 are going to make a lot of noise i could also make the same the ones that she keeps those are going to be the quiet ones we already established that they go to
school and we said "No." Have you ever Well here first off I have You could stay inside i just asked myself that who who's gonna count them who can can if if you were around the corner would you be able to tell if she had 12 or 14 probably I could well we have
distinct Well one of the conditions in the special exception is that she has to avail her property to inspection from the authorities here yeah so code of animal services or code enforcement would is capable of counting the number of dogs so it's an enforceable condition
that's it's true but it's just a matter of whether you want to impose it or not okay well I mean I'm capable of accepting defeat but let's just have a vote i seconded John's motion i think
your number is wise okay so we had a motion in a second did we actually vote on that one we have not okay all in favor of the motion signify by saying I i i i think we're going to have a roll call
opposed i guess we don't need a roll call i think that that vote failed do you want a roll call Mr dur no I think I'll There a number we can all agree on well I I think she stated 17 please
because it's so hard it's like my babies it's hard to give them away i feel you i'm an animal lover myself and I love them too we don't have kids and we have fur kids so I the way I see it she's got 20 over 20 dogs now the person nobody nearby complained she's obviously taking
care of them and managing the noise and the the potential nuisance i think we should there's no need to limit beyond that beyond what you're asking for i don't I don't think which is 17 well to be clear condition one number
one right now says 25 so if you intend to limit her to 17 within a year you would need to add to condition one and you'd be okay with 17 within a year yes that that would be Well this last vote failed right so we have to make another
Yeah somebody has to make a new move so I I' I'd move that um we approve with limiting the number of dogs to 17 within a year thank you and my chihuahua they're at home all the time almost so yeah and they're inside they're not going bark nobody going to hear them
i'll second that so she's okay with unlimited number now 17 and just has to get a 17 a year from today yeah she she'd be at 25 for the first year so it'll be 25 now within a year it has to be reduced to 17 that's the motion that you're making right correct and it was
second and and this is still personal to her especially that that was already that mot yeah and I vote on that so you second I second this yeah so all in favor signify by saying I I I opposed
like sign nay nay motion carries you want to roll seven no no okay i'm more disturbed that somebody on Grand Boulevard who's not even anywhere near her property is making complaints
about the lady's property that Yeah well that's maybe that's why the legislature got rid of anonymous complaints that's people for him i don't know okay next next item on the agenda is AP15 a conditional use request in the
name of CNM Low Limited Partnership and Port Hudson Marina LLC/Old Dixie Highway Marina presented by staff now now that Robert is finished rolling over in his grave from his rules being violated for the record I'll be ab I'm
involved in this project and I will be abstaining i have filed the forms with the clerk so I may participate in the discussion okay very good all right good afternoon amy Tall Planning Development and Economic Growth
so the item before you is a conditional use request for the for old Dixie Highway Marina uh under PTE25-C1 the proposal is a conditional use request existing future land use is ROI retail office residential and
currently res 6 res or yeah res six residential uh six dwelling units per gross acre the zoning district is C2 general commercial dis district D district and the purpose is to develop the property as a commercial marina that will be consistent with 125 dry boat
storage spaces and eight wet slips boat lifts with ancillary facilities typical to a marina i.e office bait shop uh boat ramp fueling and parking uh the location is oh uh sorry there are some expartes
that were submitted to the clerk's office prior so just to let you all know that they're there as well thank you thanks for the update um the location is on the north and south side of Harbor Drive at the intersection of Old Dixie Highway general location map being within the
Hudson district of the West Market area and the urban service area here's your context map to identify the subject site a zoomed in aerial of the location future land use of RO and RES
6 and your zoning map of C2 the proposed conceptual plan highlighting where the boat dock is going to be located and additional parking and drainage and uh pursuant to policy COA 2.1.5 development conditions for marina
Uh the following conditions have been recommended as part of the conditional approval um so policy uh COA 2.1.5B speaks to hurricane preparedness and prep and uh preparing an all hazards
plan uh policy COA 2.1.5C is a fuel management and spill contingency plan policy COA 2.1.5F it speaks to additional signage and drain or design of the marina basin as an idle speed zone to designate the
access channels as low speed channels uh COA 2.1.5G compliance with any applicable Pasco County manity protection and preservation plans and 2.1.5H to demonstrate adequate sufficient upland areas to accommodate
all necessary support facilities uh you'll notice that there only a few of them identified the rest have been met as the location criteria as part of the findings of fact in the agenda memo so with that we recommend approval with
conditions of the requested conditional use from the planning commission or planning development and economic growth and answer any questions thank you any questions questions the applicant Barbara thank you for not jumping up
ahead of staff it's the first time to defend themselves barbara 6327 Grand Boulevard Newport Richie for the applicant usually I like to talk to you um but I want to introduce you to Tim Low the Low family owns and operates
Fort Hudson Marina so I thought it'd be best for him to tell you about the proposed project in this location so Tim Low thank you good afternoon how are you doing i'm fine thank you how are you Chair good all right tim Low 14329 Crabtrep Court Hudson Florida um as
Barbara mentioned my family and I own and operate Port Hudson Marina in Hudson Florida which is less than a mile away from this facility uh we've done so ever since we purchased the property back in December of 99 um so we've been around a while we know how to operate marinas
we've improved uh Fort Hudson Marina over the years to become one of the largest um on the West Coast but also one of the cleanest we're one of the only uh well we are the only clean marina designated by DP in Pasco County which just holds us to a higher
restriction of um conditions environmentally uh storm water things like that so we will hold those same standards with this project but more importantly I'd like to just describe to you what what what we're proposing how
this operation is going to work um it is a boat ramp marina so it's a little bit different than a traditional high and dry and it's a lot different than a public boat ramp um so what we're proposing to do is construct a boat ramp
on the waterfront parcel and then across the street on the vacant land that's currently there we're proposing to store the boats on their trailers and then the marina staff themselves will use a compact tractor to hook up to the boat trailer and launch them into the water
stage them at the dock ready for the customer to come use the boat um that does a couple things that restricts or prevents traffic backing up on the road it makes it more efficient and it also controls how many boats are going to be
coming and going on that waterway because the staff would be in charge of that and a um compact tractor is much smaller than a pickup truck so crossing the street we feel would be a very quick effortless operation done by marina
staff um we can provide that service to our customers we know there's a a large need for access to the water there's very few public boat ramps available and if any of you have used a public boat ramp
recently you know that it's a pretty hectic situation it's pretty busy uh pretty stressful so we're confident that this this project would alleviate a lot of that it would not reflect uh any of that at all we also propose to improve
the site make it um beachy coastal there'll be shell landscaping maybe some sun shades we want it to be kind of a boutique marina um our customers will be more like members right so they're going to take pride in that property in in
that facility so that's that's what we're here proposing can I ask you one question so I see there is a condition saying that you can only do one boat at a time how how how often would you be crossing Hut Harbor Drive with I mean is there
going to be like on average one every 10 minutes one every hour i mean like what what do you see as your rate of launching that's likely to occur great question um that that number is strictly going to depend on how many
you know customers we have we're proposing 125 spaces um to give you some reference over at Port Hudson Marina we have over 300 boats on our property about 200 of those are high and dry um
we're not at 100% capacity today we have been before but that fluctuates so with this project if we got to capacity I would expect it to take some time but to answer your question on on traffic and quantity we do track how many boats we
put in the water at at our marina and to give you an idea in July on July 4th our busiest day we put in 50 boats we never put in more than 50 votes in the entire year and there was only one day we did
that that was July 4th um Memorial Day I want to say that number was 36 um those are our peak extreme days at a high and dry facility on average we're putting in on the weekdays we're putting
in two to four boats a day on average and on the weekend it's more like 9 to 11 9 to 16 on average on weekends that are non-h holidays and that's for a 200 boat capacity so if we're at 100
125 if you use that math we'll cut that in half to to give us maybe a general idea of the traffic yeah so peak day was basically 25% of what your capacity was correct yes sir yeah i'm my experience is I'm have been a boat owner for a long time in the area
i know from my experience and even owning a marina that uh it's amazing how few people actually go out in their boat and uh it sits in the marina most of the time it's surprising and sometimes they remind you that at the at the beginning
of the month but yeah so uh yeah I I concur with everything you just said thank you yeah our goal is to improve and beautify the area and then also solve solve a need right for the community huge need
huge need it's it's currently it's been a marina for as long as we've owned it as long as we can remember we have leased it out to a commercial tenant that unfortunately hasn't kept it in the best condition we're trying to change that um we want to replace the current
commercial vessels that are there and that commercial vessel traffic down the canal with residential boats um another important note is the boats that we plan to store are going to be under 25 ft in length because of the nature of
operation using a tractor it's not practical to haul a 30-foot boat on a trailer and down a ramp if that customer came to us we're going to you know we're going to move them over to Port Hudson and say "We'll move you with our forklift." So one more followup question
when you do cross let's say it's average you know 10 times a day or whatever do you put some kind of warning sign up on like on Harbor Drive that says like for the people that drive on Harbor so they know hey a fairly large
trailer is going to be coming through i mean how What do you do from a safety perspective it's I mean I assume Harbor Drive is a public residential street right it's a public street it um it's not a dead end there is one more access
uh to Harbor Drive from Pine Street i guess what I'm asking is what are you envisioning you're going to do to make sure that nobody who's using Harbor Drive is you know is prepared to know that there's fairly large trailer that's
coming through well that's a great question i mean one thing that I we plan on doing is is communicating and and training our staff obviously if they come up to that that driveway the end of our driveway getting ready to cross and they see traffic oncoming from either direction they'll
be instructed to wait obviously give priority to oncoming traffic um and if they don't see any traffic coming the time it's going to take to cross that 25 30 foot roadway is going to be a matter of seconds yeah I'm not as worried about the people that are driving eastbound on Harbor Drive because I think they would
clearly see you it's more if somebody's coming off Oldix Highway and making a left there's not a lot of time for them to see that's where I see a potential problem but that's why I asked what are you going to do to kind of alert drivers
that hey there's a vehicle crossing right now that they're not accustomed to seeing now yeah i don't have a current plan or answer for that other than it would be very in my eyes very similar to another side street where a vehicle
coming we could have hazards on on the tractor or maybe a flag to make the front of that tractor more visible because it is smaller than a uh you know than a fullsize pickup truck so David these were all questions that I asked during the design process and one of the
things that you have to consider and that Mike Razer is probably better equipped to come up and I hope they'll bring Mike up but is the total number of trips per day down Harbor Drive and the number of left turn movements from northbound Old Dixie or sorry left turn
movements from northbound Old Dixie to westbound Harbor Drive or southbound Old Dixie to westbound Harbor Drive that is a small number of vehicles per day and then I would tell you that
there's a similar if you go to Port Richie Corman's or whatever it's called Sunset Landing Marina operates in a similar fashion and in that case they're actually driving a forklift across the street to the putin
point and that's been there for 60 plus years that I know of yeah i mean I was mostly just trying to figure out could some like flashing light be put at the corner of Harbor Drive and Old Dixie that flashes whenever you're crossing so that anybody
who's making I realize it's a few number of trips but I mean that way if you are making that left or right turn you have there's some way of you knowing hey there's a boat about to cross and I may not want to fly through that do as quick a left turn as
I normally would i I'm but it's up to the planning commission and I guess we'll hear from the public i'm just throwing it out as maybe that could be pretty simply done with the trigger you know when he drives over a certain spot on the property to trigger that flashing light as a caution
but let's hear from the public and do you have anything else left to add Mike barbara do you have anything else you want to say thank you thank you very much first individual we have signed up to
speak is Wendy Juel hi Wendy if you give us your name and address please my name is Wendy Juel my address is 6906 Harbor Drive and um we have many of us have
many of us have I have more time than that yes you do um as you know the property in question is located in a res is a in a residential area which is already prone to prone to flooding the decrease in
green space will lead to additional flooding we believe for residents who are already stressed by high water levels and flooding we've had two devastating floods in as many years um and numerous residents are still recovering and others sadly never will
during Hurricane Helen barrels of oil from that property washed up along the canal requiring costly cleanup efforts to contain and remove them i personally had a whole barrel of oil in my backyard and killed the grass it still smells
like oil back there it was very expensive to clean the fences um it was a mess um and you know we're to us it's like we seem that it's very likely that similar incidents will
occur again in the future and boats that aren't removed from the water may potentially sink because I believe they have some wet slips as well down there um and pumps and tanks may leak leading
to fuel contamination in the water this poses a significant environmental risk um uh it's a very long canal so it doesn't refresh as fast i mean it it's a very very long canal so it takes a while
for that water refresh when we had oil and gas in the water from sinking shrimp boats down there it was there for a while um the traffic on Harbor Drive will impede the movement of residents um and as as Mr low stated Pine Street is
an exit but Has anybody ever been down Pine Street anybody i don't even want to take my golf cart on that road i think it's a private road it is not kept up it is just it it's horrible you wouldn't even
want to drive a car down that um so I don't I can't say for sure if it's a private road but if it's not a private road somebody here hasn't been doing their job and so there is no alternative route available so during an evacuation
the presence of all those numerous boat owners um trying to get their boats out of there 125 of them um are going to obstruct the resident's ability to leave the area safely um in the event of a flood boats left in the water or on trailers may end
up on private properties we've seen it all over causing further damage um canal traffic presents additional hazards many areas along that canal are unsafe for passing boats due to rocks and oyster beds the obstacles can cause damage to
the boat's lower ends and in the past we've had the shrimp boats hit the personal docks and those are licensed captains oh man come on you guys talked about dogs for a really long time i think you still have another minute right yes
um they're licensed captains since we live at the end of a really long canal we've had issues with transient boers not obeying the no wake rules causing our floating docks and boats to rock and contact each other um 125 plus recreational or novice boers would cause
more damage to the property the docks just swing the proposed hours of operation are 7 to 6 working marinas are quite noisy the diesel forklift moving boats off racks and the backup alarms boat motor starting at the docks general
flow of customer traffic is loud we live in a residential area and are completely opposed to the noise mere feet from our homes the three other marinas in Hudson don't operate this early or late the three other marinas and a public boat ramp in Hudson and we're wondering how much boat traffic does our little town
need um and at our end at the very end by the proposed property um young children fish kayak and paddle board in back in there um so we're concerned about that um you know and boers some boers see
tend to consume alcohol and you know coming back in and the children playing and they're they're not very fast at it so I think that puts them more at risk unsafe and uneducated boers pose risk to docks seaw walls and wildlife we do have
um visitors from manatees dolphins um coming in and we are concerned about them as well um so let's see many of us choose chose to build or buy a home at the end of that quiet canal with a little boat
traffic for our families to enjoy we didn't buy into the neighborhood only to have a full service marina to be built operating within feet from us um so we are opposed to this project and there are other questions the neighbor had so if I can throw them out uh since Tim uh
Low is here is the marina going to have a boat club um and is the marina going to allow liabs u will there be background checks for those persons if if it is um the lighting there if anybody's been there at night you can't
hardly see the road to turn onto it let alone so I don't know if there's going to be upgrade in lighting um so that if they are pulling a boat across there in the dark so we can see them so I think if if it has to
be there needs to be other conditions to it like lighting um um Pine Street needs to be accessible to be able to uh evacuate if that happens there needs to be that needs to
be open for evacuees during emergencies um but yeah all those reasons we have to say question about the emergency access because the applicants proposing their emergency access to Apple Street so why are you suggesting it has to be
Pine Street instead of Apple Street there's no access to from HUD from Harbor to Apple i believe their property does connect to Apple at least that's what their property connects to Apple what he's saying is in the event of emergency they evacuate boats they can evacuate it out
the back side of the property to avoid but you're still talking about old Dixie a slow twolane road and all that traffic converging trying to get out right at least it wouldn't block Old Harbor Drive though so yeah I'm just not sure
how getting access to Pine Street helps i'm just not clear about that were you talking about when you said Pine Street were you talking about for you on Harbor to be able to evacuate yes there because the only other escape route is Pine
Street in its hor the only other escape route past the property past the proposed marine oh oh she's saying that if this comes in she wants to be able to use Pine Street to get out she's saying that if she needs to get out because her way is blocked by boats
crossing harbor that her only other alternative is to get out via Pine Street correct and because I don't know that they are going to as the operators they're going to pick them up and they're going to drop them in the water but if there is a storm
coming all those boater boat owners if they know what's good for them are going to come and pick up their boats and take them somewhere else because boats will like with Helen the all those boats will be up against the fence over the
fence in people's yards um so we'll have 125 boat owners coming and trying to get out apple pine ma'am I you answered my question i wasn't trying to open this up for more debate i just I just wanted you to answer my question thank you
okay any other questions all right thank you very much thank you anybody else I'd like to speak the next individual I have signed up to speak is Susan Bower i'm Susan Bller i live at 6424 Drive
i also own the property at 6911 and 6915 Harbor which is adjacent to where these boats are going to be parked um I just have a couple of concerns um that house took on 4t of
water so the lot adjoining where this is proposed is a lot lower um as far as him building it up for a parking lot and putting in whatever where's all this water going to go is it going to end up in my property you know which is a
problem for me i also am wondering about a buffer zone is there going to be like a sixoot concrete fence there um I rent that those units to the VAST program through Pasco County which is the Veterans Association
so I don't need lights going on from 7:00 a.m to 6:00 p.m bothering the people that are in those units um as far as the noise you know there needs to be some type of buffer there um I have put a lot of money and
time into the property there and his property not only is on the corner of Old Dixie but it goes and surrounds on three sides of where my units are so is this going to expand eventually when he fills up the units is it going to go
down to Apple and then across the back you know is he going to ask for variance there and as far as the traffic on the canal from the point of this marina to the first marker going out is just under a mile that's a lot of residential homes
to run by you know it's I I mapped it out in my boat it's over threequarters of a mile so you're going by quite a few uh residential homes nothing's marked there there's no no wake signs um no one knows where the oyster beds are because
they're in front of my house i know where they are but I watch people get hung up on them all the time so you know I just have a lot of questions about you know the engineered plans it doesn't really show any of
these things also at the corner um where these where all this crossing's going on that's where the current bus stop is for the children so they're all standing right there too um as far as Pine Street
uh having another access or something of that nature Pine Street's like driving on a in a third world country you don't even want to go on that road nobody goes down there you know is this property going to be fenced you know what's it going to look like
so you know where where exactly are these driveways you know because when I'm at the the units there next to this property everyone goes down that road 30 40 miles an hour and the traffic is
continuous there's a hundred homes back there you know it's not a a lowraveled street it's a hightraveled street it's not US 19 but there's a lot of traffic going down there because my tenants have complained about the speed that people
go by the units so that's a problem for me too is turn it on to harbor you know and all of a sudden here's a you know 25 foot trailer with a tractor on it what kind of markers is he putting up or you know and I don't want to stop anyone
from doing business but I want the proper things in place you know we want no wake signs and we want to have lights or something there when he's crossing the road so people know it i want the children to be safe when they're at the bus stop all these different things you
know I want my veterans to be safe i don't want lights on them this kind of thing so if everything's put into place in the right time in the right manner I'm good with it but those need to be addressed tim and maybe Mr junell knows
this but where does the bus stop it's right at the stop sign bus stops right there on Old Dixie right at the stop sign of Harbor and Old Dixie yeah and that can be moved is it stopping where these boats would cross
or is it further east of from where these boats would cross um it's it's probably they're going to be crossing right at Harbor which is probably only I don't know i don't know exactly know where his driveway is going to be but I would say it's within 30 40 feet
but the kids are running around there and their parents' cars are sitting there or they go take them down there on golf carts whatever the case is you know the bus stop would have to be moved they don't need the sidewalk there is that right is that where they're waiting is there
Yeah they're waiting by the sidewalk but you know he's going to have to build his driveway across the sidewalk to be going across old Dixie they were going to move the bus stop i'm just trying to figure out whether there's a risk that he'd be crossing
when the bus is stopped there picking up kids no the bus would be on Old Dixie and he would be crossing a few feet away okay so it's stopping at Old Dixie not but the kids are running around there and their parents' cars and golf carts so you know that needs to be addressed
of maybe moving the bus stop for the kids' sake okay all good ideas all right anything else any questions is there anybody else thank you very much anybody else the next individual we
have signed up to speak is Elizabeth Dontanello um while Elizabeth's coming up I staff if you could just just be prepared I'm going to ask you this question eventually so be prepared to answer it i need to know what the code required buffer is
for between this use and the adjacent residential uses if we could just have your full name and address please yes sir my name is Elizabeth Donatello i live at 6915 Clark Street um which
is directly across from the proposed marina i did have an opportunity to speak with the building department and with Mr below who answered quite a few questions but I wanted to go through the the density of the area there were
studies done on the roadways and the impact on the traffic on the roadways and the the homes on Old Dixie but there wasn't really a lot talked about on the canal the canal is um approximately 3/4
of a mile long i used the Pasco County Mapper and Google Earth um so all of this is readily available there's about 105 homes 56 are directly on the main
canal but 105 roughly feed into that canal there's 30 or so vacant building lots some of them I believe have been approved for condominiums there's uh 10 of those are on the main canal right now i counted roughly 130
docks and that includes the docks that are on the the vacant lots and homes that have multiple docks there are um of those there's about 77 directly on the canal there are um on top of that there's a 70 boat
marina there is a 15 or so room in that has the length of the inn it has um a dock a long dock space i think it holds roughly 5 to 10 vessels um when I when I
did my count there were approximately um I want to say there were approximately 80 boats and vessels in actually in the water and that was um that overview was dur not during peak
season not during the summer um the summer boating season or the late fall so we're not talking about um uh you you put in 125 votes and even with the amount of um you know the the rough
numbers of what's going to go in maximum and daily talking about a long way and a lot of people a lot of vessels a lot of personal property you've got kayakers you've got um paddle boarders you've got all manner of water sports there kids
fishing um so there's a there's a big risk to both personal property and to to kids and and people using the canal the the people who live on the canal I'm right at the end the um the
number of times you you watch the boats go through and it's like it's like bumper docks they're just back and forth hitting those docks and I'm concerned about um what's going to be um put in place to
keep the boats from circling there at the end when they're trying to get in and out and I don't think there's anything in place for that i'd ask you to consider that but otherwise I think his ideas are great if he can beautify that area that would be fantastic
okay thank you very much thank you the next in we have signed up to speak is Pete Veto oh boy good afternoon and thank you um my wife just spoke but my big concern I'm a retired police commissioner out of New
York the infrastructure that currently exists there does not support an additional 125 boats or 125 vehicles sir just for the record could you state your name and the address sure it's Pete Veto 6915 Clark Street Hudson Florida and you
were sworn I'm sorry did you swear in when at the beginning yes sir i did okay and to let me reiterate that infrastructure does not support this project i understand the original approval was given in the 70s the 70s have certainly changed till
2025 the infrastructure is small to have boats in and out of there in and out of Harbor Drive and on Old Dixie it's going to be an absolute disaster both for people children in the area our house borders their property
the property has not been maintained he's admitted that he's owned it for over 20 years the property is a disgrace we've had calls into the sheriff's repeatedly because of drunken brawls that have been on the property there have been gunshots there was actually
homicide there um a year or so ago and trying to get somebody to go and even cut the grass has been an absolute disaster we called get hooked we never got a call back we talked to the building inspector who've been
tremendous they've they've cleaned up the corner um only through their diligent efforts has that been cleaned um just when this project became uh public knowledge they went in and cleaned some of the existing garbage and
debris that had been in their property since we bought our property back in 2020 um I'm very concerned about 125 boats in that small canal the canal has not been dredged we have damage to our seaw wall
because people go up and down that canal well in excess of an idle speed and just think about an idle speed for 3/4 of a mile to the Gulf Gulf of America as we're proud to call it now it's going to be a disaster and then all these boats
coming back in you've got one person i talked to the maintenance person that was there and he said he didn't even have a lawn mower a push lawnmower to maintain the property i don't see this changing and drive by it tonight on your way home take a look at the way the property
looks now i'm 100% opposed to this okay anybody have any questions pete right thank you very much appreciate it Pete that was the last individual that we had
signed up to speak Mr chair okay and before we proceed I'm going to take a fivem minute break please sounds good my back teeth are about to float away perfect i was already there
student oh you didn't hear about that no yeah we were talking about that before the meeting started oh I did not know i noticed I could I used that one but that's okay you don't have to explain don't you i didn't
do any of you guys know Gar Angel what's that gar Angel his His son was right there when it happened was chased by the shooter apparently but he escaped yeah he didn't get shot no but he said he ran by a person that was laying on the ground
that had been shot wow he thought they were dead but obviously they weren't where was it florida State that student union wow okay let's start again i'm going to bring Mike Razer up okay good afternoon uh Mike Razer with
Razer Transportation Consulting 1 19046 Bruce B downs Boulevard Tampa and I have been sworn okay good so I'm going to uh talk a little bit about landbased vehicular traffic we identified the current
traffic volumes on Harbor Drive we got counts from February of 2024 so during the peak season of occupancy during the AM peak hour we have a total of 31 vehicles and that's 17 eastbound 14
westbound in the afternoon peak hour a total of 34 21 eastbound 13 westbound so relatively minimal traffic volumes in regard to turns from Old Dixie Highway onto Harbor Drive during the morning
peak hour there were six left turns and eight right turns in the afternoon peak hour there were nine left turns and four right turns so again relatively low traffic volumes indicating relatively low conflicts
so the intersection of Old Dixie Highway and Harbor Drive has return radiuses of approximately 30 ft with the lane
widths taking it into the the Ashto formula the theoretical maximum speed for the worstase turn which is the left is 15 miles an hour and that has to do with side friction on the tires and whatnot theoretical maximum to make the
turn from Old Dixie onto Harbor Drive so at 15 m an hour the stopping sight distance is 80 ft to come to a complete stop once you see something in your way the distance from Old Dixie Highway to the eastern edge of the boat ramp area
not even where the boats may be coming across there's probably another 5 to 10 feet there perhaps but worst case 130 ft to that location so we have a stopping sight distance of 80 we have a distance to the crossings of 130 so there'd be
ample opportunity for anyone turning onto Harbor to be able to stop well in advance of creating any type of conflict with someone traveling across Harbor Drive and to that there was some discussion earlier about how that would look and will it be blocking the road
well the way I see this it's no different than a two-way stop control situation where the crossing activity is the minor street which would be under stop control with Harbor Drive as being
the main street folks wait for a gap they cross when there's a gap so no different than any other intersection that's out there in in the county state wherever so with that I'd be happy to answer any traffic related questions so Mike your
statement assumes light daytime visibility doesn't it i mean I guess my question would be if it was nighttime I don't know how well lit this intersection is but if it's nighttime and the back of the trailer
was not properly lit isn't it possible that somebody may not be able to have that full sight distance david that's an excellent point i'm working on the presumption that the tractor that's crossing the road will be lit to a manner that's appropriate for crossing a
public roadway and I think we'll have to have uh the applicant speak to that i'm not seeing any looking at Google Street View i'm not seeing any street lights well the other thing is is that I don't think and I don't I wasn't I wasn't
referring to Mike external lighting i was referring to on vehicle i think the uh the hours of operation would put you in a position where you wouldn't be crossing the street at night well I mean there's times at 7:00
there's times that's dark there hours of operation yes during the summer I don't see it being dark by seven but think during the winter months it sometimes dark 7 a.m too could be dark so there it could be dark during
those hours of operation so that's why I asked the question however most of the most of the operation is going to happen in the summertime so just just if I could address the uh the hours there we we put those hours down in anticipation of
seasonally in the summer when the daylight is lighter earlier if we had a large request from customers that wanted to leave early to go fishing that we could accommodate that possibly our
intention is 8 to 5 seven days a week um year round the intention is daylight hours basically yes i don't I don't want our employees operating at night yeah so if it was in the summertime and those hours were before 8 it it wouldn't be
when it was dark so if we need to adjust that for seasonal or I mean if it was the hours were from dawn to dusk would that I'd be okay with that we don't we have no intention or desire to operate one thing you got to keep in mind is during the winter time when when we have our
shorter days that's not prime boat season well I get your point but I'm saying he he intends to not operate after when it's dark at all i'm hearing him say but that's not right necessarily consistent
with condition seven and the other thing is dawn dusk it probably would be but the other thing is if even during the day if it's bad weather you're not putting boats in the water I assume correct right okay
so and I'm not sure who asked this question to because I don't think Mike handles boat traffic um at least I doubt he did an analysis of boat traffic if he did sure he may not be qualified to do analysis of boat traffic i guess my question as it relates to boat traffic
is is there an existing operation there now that's using this canal yes there's a commercial operation with any at any given time anywhere from maybe six to nine commercial vessels that are I would say a minimum of 30
feet in length and they have a much wider width than a pleasure craft and a much deeper draft and they operate 247 i'm sure some of the residents could attest to the early morning hours 3 four
5:00 am that they come through sometimes unmuffled and we're we're looking to Well I mean the allegation that I heard was that because it's such a long canal that there amount of boats you have could impede boat traffic but if you're
telling me it's at most 50 a day I don't know that the rate of I'm just wondering whether the rate of votes you'd be releasing would be much different than what's occurring there arguably it'll be less than 50 a day
because that was 50 based on the capacity of 200 yeah i mean that was his max capacity his average is I think he said 10 a day i was on his other operation so um figured 25% i'm just trying to figure how likely it is that there would be congestion on the
canal itself i I I don't know who's prepared to testify closer to 30 boats a day 31 if I could touch on that again um in terms of the traffic in the canal when we launch the the boats again it'll be one tractor one employee so that'll
be one vessel at a time um I haven't done it in real life but just from what I know and my experience once a boat is dropped in the water and it's tied up to the dock that operator then drive across the street go back into our gated
parking lot drop off or park the empty trailer find the next boat that's waiting if there is one waiting in succession hook up to it drive through the yard drive across the street turn around back down the ramp and launch it
i mean if we get really good at this after a year or two that might get down to a six or eight minute cycle time but I'm going to I'm going to take a guess and say that's going to be a good 8 to 10 minutes on the shortest scenario to to do that by that time that vessel at the
dock will be loaded and leaving and so they'll be kind of staggered if you will in time even if we had 10 people show up at once to get launched that has happened i I would say at Port Hudson on our holiday days but even with that
backlog waiting in the parking lot it's going to take us you know 10 minutes at least to to cycle through and get vote what I'm hearing you say is that the most you could throughput is maybe six per hour
i guess it may maybe have a customer that's in the in the slip waiting for someone else and two go out at once i mean on average You can only launch one at a time so at least that's what it said i Well launch means go going in the
water so he could have somebody we could have a stage in the water that's Yeah and also if there's if it's later on in the day there's people coming back we we would relieve we would take that boat out right so there'll be a in our opinion there'll be plenty
of time in between boats there wouldn't be a traffic jam on the water well I'm just trying to think a lot of is there some condition this fear that that somehow there would be 125 boats using the canal at the same time it seems unfounded but
I there's nothing that specifically says that you know you couldn't put a bunch all at once other than that they have to be launched one at a time i'm just wondering is there some rate of launching that you could agree to that would address that concern that somehow
we're going to flood the canal with boats you said on your peak day you launched about we figured you launched about 25% of the boats that you had there which you said 50 boats out of a 200 boat uh
and that was once that year and then it went down to maybe 23% which was one other time so on average it's less than 20% so at 25% you're at like 31 boats by my math on 125 if you were at full capacity during
the whole day or the you know probably just the launching period in the morning but still and that could take three hours to get them all out if they were all waiting all at once correct and we've got the full eight hour day to do that right but I think having a maximum amount per hour would address the
concern more than a max amount per day because I think the concern I heard is that there would be just a bunch of boats using the canal all at the same time and that would clog the canal so maximum per hour would address that concern more than per day because if you
did it per day they could do all 50 within an hour and that would that would potentially cause the problem there yeah that's just impossible yeah operation that's what I'm asking is there some condition you could agree to that would limit the amount you could
launch per hour i wouldn't be opposed to that but I would like to learn more about the cycle time how long it would take um maybe there's one one day a year that we did seven an hour i wouldn't want to have to be concerned about that so it wouldn't
be an issue um if I could touch one more thing on this subject when you reference the length of the canal I know some citizens had concerns about that there's rivers and canals in western Pasco that are much longer than that the Cody River the Anklo River also the main Florar
Canal and Gulf harbors that one is almost two miles long for vessels to get out so 3/4 of a mile isn't short by any means but it's not nearly as long as some of the other idols that are in our district can I ask you a question about the
intended um construction of the the lot because it's it states on the concept drawing there's a semi impermeable surface is that what's is that gravel is it So we'll do gravel or shell we're not intending to pave that
okay possibly pave pave the entrance or the apron yes keep the shell off the road they're required to do that under the county code we'll have to have a paved apron but in the boat storage area that'll be a gravel or shell surface okay yeah so that allows some permeation
of some storm water it won't ponds too proposing storm water ponds so could somebody I don't know whether a staff or the applicant address the what the code requires in terms of buffering to the adjacent uses and then is the applicant proposing just to
meet code or so against the residential and I heard the lady's concern the code would require you have a commercial use a C2 use against a residential use that would be a 15 foot type B buffer and the site plan the concept plan that's
included in the package includes a type B buffer and a type B buffer includes a continuous hedge it's a tree every 30 feet and then a solid fence which they can't do wooden or
chain link so it'll be a vinyl fence a six foot fence yeah six foot that's the minimum and then last question I had was um and this may be um better for staff I'm not sure But uh it looks like the access to Apple is emergency only is
there any particular reason because there was some concern about the amount of crossings on on harbor which also included owners dropping off or picking up their boats so is there any reason why we couldn't have owners uh pick up or drop off boats off of Apple and just
use the crossing there on on harbor just for the launching of the boats just as a thought and that might alleviate some of the concerns especially if there's a hurricane and we have a bunch of owners picking up their boats all at once the intent here is
that you're storing your boat here for launch here no different than if you stored it in high and dry at Sunset Landing or Port Hudson Marina it's not like a boat and RV storage area where I'm coming up and hooking my car
or truck up to my boat to take it here or there and everywhere it's that I'm signing up for a marina service to have them storing it here while they launch my boat for me it's for convenience it's not intended to be a traditional boat
and RV storage yard where you come and get your boat every weekend at will and take it here and there yeah I think my concern was more regarding to what what one person mentioned one of the citizens mentioned was about in the event of a storm or something like that where
suddenly everybody's coming to grab their boat to get it away from the impending storm well it's labeled as emergency it's labeled as on the site plan as emergency access i think at that point emergency yeah so that's that I
just wonder you know what would trigger you know I didn't know if we should codify anything in the conditions that say that you know that that should be prioritized for use of Apple during emergency condition in order to not impede traffic on on harbor again this is in direct
response to one of the citizens that had concern about that during a hurricane sure and I was going to address that at our current marina we have a hurricane plan and it starts basically from the the moment there's a hurricane warning or watch implemented and within 72 hours
anybody that's going to come get their vessel needs to come get their vessel before we're within that 72-hour window because that's when we start to prepare our marina for the storm um believe it or not we don't have as many people come get their boat as you would think
um but they don't all have trailers so with this we will take that same approach we'll have a hurricane plan our customers will have a copy of that and we will implement that and communicate that as those storms arise and so our goal would be to have all those boats
out of there well before the residents actually decide oh my gosh it is coming this way we need to get out of here and of course emergency uh response or or storm situation we would uh intend to use both access points to to alleviate
any backlog but again if we were full um I I don't even suspect that we would have an issue because it would be over a week or more that they would come get it people work they have other things they're doing it would be I believe it would be so buried that um we would not
impede the traffic but to answer your direct question and almost every one of these events our board declares a state of emergency so I think that would trigger their ability to use it yes the other thing I'd like to point
out is in the event of an or approaching hurricane and I've w I've witnessed this and I've volunteered to help before when a hurricane is approaching there are a lot of people that have their boats in the canals in the water and they want to
pull them out and if you're up here in Hudson the only place to do that is over at the Hudson Beach boat ramp this now offers another opportunity to get boats out of the
water in the event of emergency having another ramp available that can be used by the used or operated by the county in the event of an emergency so it actually helps the situation in my mind
so um I just want to go back to the buffering can I just call up the lady who lives next who has the property immediately next to this i just want to know now that she's heard what the code requires in terms of buffering does that address your concern
as it relates to buffering um as far as the lights yeah maybe not the noise i don't know exactly how it's going to knock down the noise it just depends you know when you're when everyone's pulling in there to go
get on their boat or whatever you have a lot of traffic coming in and out i don't know if it's a dozen a day i don't know if it's 50 i don't I have no idea let me ask Denise since she's here what what what decibel level would they have to
meet probably under our code for commercial use to residential let me pull up the noise ordinance i I should know that by heart i don't know if it's 55 dBA let me double check so the reason I'm asking Denise's question
is because they are they're not exempt from our noise ordinance so I understand if they exceed a certain decel level you could call code enforcement and say they're exceeding that decel level
and and code enforcement could cite them i'm I'm going to figure out Denise is about to tell us what that decel level is i've tried to call um Tim's corporation several times because that lot was filled with homeless people and nobody would respond to me or ever call me back i called there probably four or
five times and I had to go over there with my husband and get the homeless people out of that lot you know this you know we pay some of the highest taxes in the county you know I would appreciate it if I could get help from somewhere just for the record before we go any
further could we you please restate your name for just for the record so we know susan Bller i live at 6424 Drive thank you you're welcome so I have the answer to the question so um so the noise ordinance from 7:00 am to 6 pm
Monday through Saturday nothing can exceed between commercial and residential 60 dBA and then um no time limit at any given time outside of those limits that I stated 66 dBA is the maximum
well and would would it um solve some of your concerns if it was only an operation from dust till dawn or dawn till dusk rather yeah I mean that would be fine and I don't want to lose income obviously you know I've had that property for Yeah i'm only pointing out
that I mean I do think that the buffer that was described will help with noise but if it is insufficient I don't want you to think that you have no remedy i mean there's okay if they're exceeding the decimal level that Denise just the use on that side of the property though
if you pull the site plan up is a parking area right on what side of the property between on the side that's adjacent to the lady's property it's a proposed parking area the boat ramp is further to the east i understand that in theory noise could
travel yep point being that it's not the boats right up against it i don't think Mr moody you're you're asserting that you're exempt from our noise regulations no I'm not i'm not asserting that what I'm saying is that the use that's going to be on that portion of the property is
not necessarily a noise generator the other thing that I think one needs to keep in consideration is the property today is zoned C2 there's a number of other uses that the property could be that may
generate significantly more amounts of noise that aren't subject to this conditional use property there's things they can do by right in C2 right but I'm actually agreeing with you and saying that our noise ordinance governs whatever commercial use goes there
exactly and that if there was noise emanating from the site regardless of the commercial use if exceeded that decel level she could file a complaint correct and I appreciate you letting me know that and I have no objection to what's going on there i just wanted to
make sure that everyone around there was protected in some way i was mostly asking for does it address your concern for visual screening that's what my primary and it sounds like the answer is yes the answer is yes okay that answers my question thank you mr chair can I please clarify the record because I did
state I did misstate okay okay so from commercial to residential between the hours of 7:00 a.m and 6 p.m monday through Saturday 60 DBA is a maximum anything outside of those times it cannot be over 55 dBA okay i did state
66 by mistake that was commercial to commercial so 55 outside of the times and then um 7 am to 6 pm Monday through Saturday 60 dBA okay and according to Google 60 dBA is
considered equivalent to normal conversation or sound background music in a restaurant or the noise level and air conditioning unit at distance that's fairly tolerable yes okay and I get I think one other question I had was about lighting maybe
you want to address that because in the evening time you may want to have lighting on on the on the property for security purposes but I'm sure you're going to direct it in toward the property yes yeah there were there were some
questions concerns about lighting we do intend to have some security lighting where the boats and trailers will be stored on the north side of Harbor Drive um the lighting on the waterfront parcel would be described more as ambient
lighting more like you would see with landscape lighting so the docks would have you know a lit uh pathway so if somebody was there at night for some reason closing up they could see um we don't intend to light this up like a Hughes car lot uh we do want to make
sure it's secure um but on the waterfront parcel one thing that I failed to to mention in my earlier description is that where those current commercial vessels are those docks are going to be in you know we're proposing to completely rip those out rebuild
those and install boat lifts six to eight boat lifts or boats that are maybe 22 to to 30 feet or so so that will be improved and beautified those will be the only permanent vessels that are either on or over the water the only
other docks that we're proposing are floating docks on either side of our boat ramp just to help launch and retrieve vessels and we will have enough room as long as we've got the length there we're proposing to have enough room to to
stack two to three vessels on either side so if there is a large number of boats that come back at the same time we can accommodate them at our docks rather than in the basin to not create a backlog there okay so just to clarify what I mentioned
before would you be uh opposed to modifying the hours uh and the condition to dawn to dusk i would not be opposed to that is that a motion uh well if we if we if we get to the motion of approving
the item then I would probably make that as part of my motion if I was the person making that motion put it that way well say you could make that motion now to amend condition seven if you wanted to um to get out of the way okay so I' I'd move that we amend
condition seven to operating hours of dawn till dusk is there a second have a second any further discussion of that motion if not all in favor signify by saying I i i those like sign okay
motion carries all right that should alleviate some seasonal questions from some of the residents as well so and the lighting safety lighting after dark okay i guess the only other question is
did you all want to address the rate of launch issue or you comfortable just being solid on that well I think that you know the problem with it is is that who's going to modify it who's going to monitor it um the rate of launch and I think it's going to be sort of from my
point of view it's sort of self-controlling you can only launch so many boats within a certain amount of time one driveway you know and the amount of time you're going to be on Harbor Drive is going to be seconds not minutes if you look at the floating
docks that are on either side of the boat ramp they the best you're going to do is get like four boats that are possibly lined up in there at one time until one boat pulls away if say let's say say for example you actually have four boats along the floating docks you
can't launch another one until one of those pulls away and then you move and create the space so yeah well I think that one thing that he you just answered for me that I was going to ask is really more a concern to
me votes coming back in because they you know they don't come back in at the same rate they go out necessarily there's bad weather everybody comes in everybody comes in at once but you do have a plan that you just said you you're going to stack them at the docks you know and then pull them out one at a time yes sir
we're going to put other than have them trying to navigate a circle there correct we recognize it's not the largest canal we're going to request to put in as long of a staging dock as the state will allow i think the state might be more restrictive than the county i'm not sure whichever that is for that
purpose we want a good customer experience but we also want to be continue to be a good steward of the neighborhood like I said we've been operating for us in Marina um owning and operating it for 25 years i do uh share some frustration with an earlier resident about the condition of that
property today it has been owned by us for many years but it is under a commercial lease which that lease has rules and regulations we can only do so much uh we are very excited to terminate that lease and move forward and beautify
this area i drive by that property almost every day and it's yes it's frustrating um we we want to create a boutique marina and give it more of a member feel so the people that we bring in that our customers are going to appreciate and respect you know the
surrounding area and we will not have boat clubs there i know that was another question and concern we will not have liboards the state won't allow us but we would not choose to have that either um and I think we addressed lighting
hours of operation the storm if the boats are going to be cleaned or the engines are going to be flushed that will be done across the street on the northern parcel where the boats are stored that won't be done on that waterfront parcel so that'll be far
away from any residents you know I guess just to clarify your crossing point is not it doesn't appear that your crossing point would interfere with the where the bus stop is for the school
kids but I could you confirm that i I don't think it will interfere with it but I I do know that our busy times are going to be on weekends and and holidays and given our cycle time of maybe 5 to 8 minutes to to get a boat
and retrieve it uh versus the the short window of time that the the bus stop would be occupied well the testimony was that the bus stops on Old Dixie to so again for the record Michael Razer Razer Transportation the crossing point
is approximately 130 ft west of Old Dixie my understanding based on other testimony today is that the bus travels along Old Dixie does not turn onto Harbor Drive so there would be no conflict between the loading and
unloading of a bus and the and the crossing of Harbor Drive with the boat trailers the sidewalk is located um I know there's one on the south and is there a sidewalk
on the north yes there's sidewalks on both sides so I mean children could potentially walk past that location however as I'd stated before it's no different than a typical two-way stop controlled intersection on any street um
the folks that are handling the boats need to be diligent as as any driver would be so I again I I don't believe there's any conflict between the bus stop and the and the operation of the the boat launches
well my concern was kind of alleviated when they read the dawn and dusk because to me if it's dawn dusk it's going to be light so any kids that are in the area should be able to see what's going on i don't see how they wouldn't in the lighted
condition okay okay are there any other questions the only I think other concern we heard was about just there's not a lot of information on the canal there is there any way to post some additional signage
to indicate there's no wake for your users can that's one of the conditions of approval okay i didn't see that in there okay it's condition number unfortunately what has to happen is the board has to go in and declare that to be an idle speed or no wake zone and
then the applicant will pay for the signage okay and there's no need for channel marker condition 16 by the way online it says that if we have to install additional signage they have to pay for
it so Mr moody's right the county has to do it but if it costs anything they're going to pay for it we'll have signs on our property and we will communicate to our customers i had
mentioned to one or two of the citizens here during the break that if they see any uh activity like that uh especially if it's repetitive to call us we're going to answer the phone and we're going to address it with that
customer we have that ability as a private business to regulate and choose who our customers are unfortunately that's not as easily done with a public boat ramp i mean at the end of the day I'm going to get tired of getting complaints right we're going to we're going to act on it we're going to act on
it before we get too many but um that's I mean again we've been here 25 years we we want toh continue to be a good a good neighbor and and improve the area okay all right any other questions
i'm sorry you can't speak from the floor and you've already come up so all right that's okay if uh if anybody would like to ask this lady a question you're welcome to and I I would just add that this is Barbara Bhigh this isn't our last conversation with the
neighbors you know M Donella you know he spent a half hour with Mr low on the phone and so they can continue to communicate um and that's my client will do that so um it's not like and there's another hearing before the board of county commissioners so if you have more
to say to somebody you can speak to the board right unless somebody wants to figure out now okay very good if there is no more questions or you have no want to call anybody up then I'll hear a motion
i move approval of AP15 second we have a motion to approve the recommendation of the staff uh with with the various uh restrictions so modified condition and the modified
condition um all in favor of that motion signify by saying I I opposed like sign all right motion carries the record reflect that I abstain yes mr mitty abstain mr chair before we move to item PC9 and
PC 10 I would like to state for the record that Tim Low was sworn in previously in the meeting and additionally for items APC 12 and APC 13 it was stated on record that there were expertise received um I misstated that
they were conflict of interest forms not expertise okay yeah and I confirmed about Mr low's testimony too okay think that does it any other motions two more items we still got no more
huh let's go ahead and make the motions technically they're technically they're public items that you hear from the public yes yes sir if you want to wave staff if you want to wave staff presentation I must but you have to minimum ask for public
comment okay do you want to hear from T yes okay yes of course okay we've been here a long time just teasing instead of fighting fire everybody with you
chair board members Ryan Gwyn uh fire chief Pasco County Fire Rescue just want to tee this um workshop up uh real quick for 30 seconds before I let the fire marshall take over but first of all thank you for your time we've been working on this for about two years trying to come to a conclusion uh we
reached out to county staff they advised us to possibly go out and reach a third party uh consultant which we did and uh I think that we're going to show that we have some extenduating circumstances and necessitating a need from you guys so um at that note I again like to say thank
you and then I'll let fire marshall take over all right thank you thank you Chief good afternoon planning commission chairman councelor Justin from fire marshall of Pasco County uh presenting on the first workshop to the extraordinary circumstances necessitating our need for fire rescue
combat rescue service impact fees to exceed the phase in statutory limitations um statutoily bound uh by 50% increase the uh we're asking that we exceed that phase of limitation under the
extraordinary circumstances of population growth construction cost increases and below the market on uh NFPA 1710 standards for staffing and responses um under the phasing limitations it allows the government to
demonstrate extraordinary circumstances necessitating the need to exceed these phasing limitations holding at least two publicly noticed workshops dedicated to them uh this being the first and the second will be heard Tuesday at the border county commission meeting because we are proposing that increase exceed
the phase limitations two workshops will be required the uh unprecedented development in Pasco County more people increasing calls for service and demands in the 23 years that Chief Aguin and I have been
with the organization by leaps and bounds we've elevated our service delivery to the citizens and customers uh and guests of Pasco County a lot of efforts with board support and county administration support and direction we've raised our services to meet the
needs of the community to be recently outgrown with population since our current impact fees were adopted uh in December of 23 and into 24 43.2% increase in population compared to
a 134.4% nationwide increase since the 2003 adoption of the current impact fees construction cost indexing has increased 143% land values increased approximately
160% and we still remain well below the threshold of the NFPA 17 standard 1710 standard of firefighters per 10,00 population as well as fire station delivery areas uh it's necessary to update project costs therefore the impact fees to ensure the cost to
deliver new facilities need to maintain fire rescue level service in the county are sufficiently covered in this fee structure what is that standard for firefighters per thousand the I have a slide that represents that in just a moment sir jumping ahead
the uh again affirming the population growth in the index that our consultant will also speak to uh we're up 43.2% 2% since these impact fees in 2004 and in this graph it parallels and
there's a direct correlation to our increased service delivery and calls for service the demand on our units uh parallels the population growth represented by uh new residential home permits this dates back uh to January of 2017 to
the end of the calendar year of 23 24 is when we completed the study i I will say that we surpassed that in the calendar year of 2024 surpassing well over 100,000 calls for service uh construction cost index
increase of 143% you all in the planning commission all know the cost that has gone up um in both construction cost building design as well as land acquisition uh following the the uh scant study i'm sorry this is our our current fee
structure on uh fire combat and rescue service residential combined for unincorporated PE residents is $420.39 and our non-res sits at 54877 per 100,000 square feet
looking at that and when we started this venture we were looking at our capital revenues and how it was not sustainable to our capital improvement plans to parallel the growth and the demands on our services um when we looked at this originally we were nearly 35 months of
revenue capital revenue collection before we meet a threshold of approximately $10 million to fund a new service delivery area uh with the proposal and the ask that we have reducing that down to approximately 15 months of acquisition to capture a $10
million capital revenue line for a new service delivery area um in addition to increasing uh both uh fire combat and rescue service impact fees we're asking to remove the cap at 50,000 square foot
in non-res after we completed that study and that internal audit of where we were at and how it wasn't sustainable to our capital improvement plan and our growth to parallel theation of population putting on our calls for service we presented that to Mr carbala and county
administration who supported us uh moving forward with a impact fee study and Stantech consulting was retained so at this time I would like Peter Napoli he was our program manager to come speak on his portion of the study
thank you good afternoon planning commissioners uh and thank you for the introduction fire marshall from uh I've got a few slides here summarizing the results of the impact piece study that we conducted for the county um as well as the demonstrated need study that's required
as part of the state statutes to exceed the limitations and I I might go through these kind of quick if you want me to go back at the end to any of these slides and dive a little deeper but I'm gonna just try to give you a high level overview and not get too into the weeds um this
background slide here I pretty sure you guys are all very familiar with how impact fees work and and what they're used for so I'll skip over this um the existing fees you already saw uh Mr from showed that table uh between and your existing fees are currently split between fire combat and rescue service
and then there is that cap of the 50,000 square feet for non-residential which is very unusual in my experience around the state you don't typically see caps on the non-residential impact fees that are that are assessed and uh I'm sure the uh the fire department could speak to how
there is excess of of of demand that they place on on services beyond that 50,000 square foot mark i'm sure you're familiar with House Bill 337 which put these limitations
into place on impact fee increases um this was put into place in 2021 and before then you didn't have to go through the extraordinary circumstances and demonstrated need to exceed that 50% threshold but now you do so this is uh this is part of that um I can tell you
that I' I've helped numerous counties uh around the state with this uh you procedure uh most recently Hernando and uh Citrus will be coming up soon uh these are the same charts that uh Mr
from showed with the excessive population growth and cost inflation in the in the region that are substantial um uh use cases for the extraordinary circumstances those are the two most popular extraordinary circumstances that
I see uh identified around the state when counties go through this process um another is operational and he spoke to operational the operational needs need needs from a staffing standpoint and then uh we kind of go into the methodology here um some of
these slides kind of changed around a little bit once we put them in the Pasco County format but uh the methodology that we use to recalculate the fees is what we call the hybrid approach so this is a blend of existing costs and future costs existing capacity and future
capacity um so we use the fixed asset data from the the county's records to support the existing cost of your fire department facilities and then we use the capital improvement plan for the future cost of uh future facilities that
are planned and uh as a result of growth uh the this one kind of comes up a little weird uh the capacity is measured in what we call functional population which is a way measuring the impact or demand for certain services um and this
is used for most of the general government services public safety parks and wreck uh essentially it's a way of estimating the amount of people that are added to the capacity of the county from a certain type of development so on the non-residential side it's the amount of
people occupying per thousand square feet of space which includes employees visitors etc on the residential side it's the people living in the dwelling unit or apartment unit etc these are the functional populations measured for the county and they form
the basis for the uh proportional nexus between residential non-residential fees these are the capital improvements that we identified there's several stations major apparatus acquisitions and then there's also a portion of a future training
center and uh operations center that we we discounted since a portion of the buildings uh serving existing residents as well it's not wholly necessary due to growth this is the rescue side this is uh the the calculations
once we take the cost basis the existing cost plus future cost identified for fire combat and rescue service divided amongst the existing units served measured in equivalent dwelling units which is the capacity for both of those
these are the fees that we calculate um and and your fees are actually separated out into two buckets between land and then facilities and equipment so you could see in the top section there uh land and facilities equipment would
total 416 for the fire combat fee per residential dwelling unit um and on the non-residential side 362 uh per thousand square feet that's a 67% increase on the residential side and a 12% increase on
the non-residential side and it's important to point out that the cap is removed in this situation from that non-residential so uh the revenue would most likely be uh affected higher than that 12% increase on the rescue services side the
fees uh shown there highlighted in the dark blue the updated fees 29 for land 229 to make it two 258 per residential dwelling unit uh that's 50% increase and then the non-residential actually stays
flat per thousand square feet but again the not the uh the cap for the uh total square footage uh charged is removed and again that 50% increase technically is below the 50% threshold threshold that the state allows however
they wouldn't allow you to adopt it all at once without going through this process you'd have to phase it in over a four-year period and that would affect revenue collection so this last graph here just sum summarizes the results of the updated
fees uh together the fire and rescue account for a 60% increase when combined and then on the non-residential side the combined increase is 7% this is a survey that we performed this back in you know early 2024 so it's
probably changed since then there's a lot of increases to impact fees around the state right now uh the green arrow uh shows where you're at currently and where you'd be moving to in relation to the total impact fees that the county charges this is kind of a minor increase
um you know when you factor in schools transportation mobility etc so you stay in the same place in the survey um and you're a little bit above the average and then there were a few operational slides that I don't know if
you wanted to speak to Mr from but I'll I could just skip through these but um that's basically the end of my presentation i'd be happy to answer any questions when was the last time there was a fee or a um this was reevaluated when was the last time there was an increase in
impact fees for fire rescue 2003 three okay there actually never was that was the initial adoption initial that was the initial adoption so there hasn't been an update it's never been increased and we recommend in looking at these every five years
any questions so the first item in the workshop that you don't need to take any action on that the second item is you have to make a recommendation because that's the ordinance itself um you have to determine whether you find it consistent with the comp
plan you do need to make a recommendation on the second item but you need to at least ask for public comment i realize there's nobody sitting in the audience but it's a caution i want to say something would anybody like to speak we we
thought when we got here after we had all the support on social media over the last 48 hours that they were all here in favor of it we quickly learned that people only show up in opposition and not support so Yeah part of the reason you don't see anybody in the audience is they also they also went to TVBA and got
a blessing on this increase as well so so this this was presented to TBBA who did supporting the increase um and then it was presented to horizontal vertical round table yesterday afternoon um and then to the the previous question that was asked in that NFPA standard of 1710
per 1000 population the recommendation is 2.28 28 firefighters per 10,00 and we currently operate at 1.14 and we are four stations below the threshold of the standard for service delivery areas based on population um in
that capital improvement plan we've outlined and identified our next five prioritized service delivery areas that we are well behind the eightball in already uh the first being down in Commissioner Weightman's jurisdiction in the Union Park area where we're facing
14 to 21 minute responses and that's without any consideration of call concurrency where we have the the first due area to that area of geographical responsibility may be committed on another call for service when a call comes in for there um and then that
capital improvement plan also supports and identifies the uh the apparatus and equipment that uh Peter had spoke to um Chief Gwyn did you want to touch on some of the station design considerations and um yeah I know there's been some
questions about you know I know there's been some interest in and and questions about the cost of the station size of the stations and such and I know that um you know we've making we've made considerable um changes to the process already we've already decreased the co the cost of each station by about $2
million right now um but currently as the presentation stated you know we're about five to six years before we have enough capital to build one we haven't built one out of um impact um in quite some time actually because we've been operating off of the go bond and we do have plans to build
one currently and that will put us in the negative with the impact revenue that we have already so it's kind of a the necessity of this is the goal to get to the 2.28 per thousand our goal is to be premier and
exceed that um and that's a timing and a staffing issue not to mention the apparatus to support those firefighters and the stations to house them in i mean with with what you're proposing I mean is there like a projection how long it'll take you to get there i mean are we talking 20 years or so that again
between now and the the fruition of the capital improvement plan not knowing what the population growth truly will be we can't factor that um but it will put us in a position to bring it up to that at our current population and NFPA is a
standard and a recommendation we try our best to follow even at the current rate it says we're below uh four fire stations internally we recognize we're behind five fire station just because of the geographical layout of Pasco County we're wider than we are tall and so you know you have to take that in consideration as well so we we do our
best to follow NFPA yeah i mean obviously this is way outside of my knowledge base here to try to follow i'm trying to follow the numbers but I mean obviously we see all the numbers and all the development that's coming for before us every two weeks i just I frankly I was a little surprised to see
the non-residential fee only went up 7% um but that's in also in consideration with removing the cap so the 50,000 foot cap right and unfortunately I think we probably missed a boat on a lot of that as well but it is what it is we want to we want to be able to capture it moving
forward yeah i mean and kudos to you guys for being able to provide the service you provide on 2003 fees i wish I wish my 2003 budget at Publix worked the same as it does yeah it's it's it's the troops it's the hard work right and and they do an incredible job serving
citizens and guests we just identified a shortfall and we need to go forward correct part of that was because they got the go bonds right approved let them catch up somewhat but they're still gone can I just ask you a stupid question
maybe why is it that uh the firefighters are required to send a fire truck every time there's an automobile accident because it seems like that puts you under a lot of pressure you don't need it does um unfortunately we operate under the premise that we can only handle the calls that we currently have
so same reason that they go to houses the the fire truck would follow the ambulance to the house for a medical call as well if there's any indication that caused a severe call it's hard to handle with just two individuals on a on an ambulance you know if we have to do CPR on you or if we have to do any
advanced medical care on you it takes upwards of three four five people sometimes so is that because you have the the severe care people on the fire trucks and not on the ambulance is that why what's that sir i'm sorry not enough room for the people on the ambulance is
that because you have your uh your serious care people designated to the fire trucks they're actually on both they're on the fire trucks and on the ambulances but we we operate with three individuals on the firet truck three personnel on the ambulance and the majority of the time that's sufficient
but when it's not we send extra personnel if they need it we'll jump people from one truck to the ambulance and then we can transport to the hospital and and maintain another unit in service doing the doing the best we can with what we got sir well I'm just thinking
is there a way you can cut down on the on the demand you know because seems to me like you're they got you running all over the place and they do you know and we're we're working on some new service delivery models i can see where in some cases you'd need all of that and in other cases you wouldn't you know yes
sir so anyway u Yeah I'm sort of like you i'm What's the need i don't know a lot about it so um so one of the things we've talked about in here over the last few years is on a couple occasions we'd
asked staff to make arrangements to get you guys in here to tell us what your needs are from the extraordinary amount of development that we've been experiencing over the past few years what we need to
understand is what you need for land for fire stations what you need what infrastructure needs you have from new development to make your service you know to provide
the service to the county residents i'm trying to couch is nice because I when I say it's not going to come out right but I mean I'm a little disappointed that we're here today there's many times that we could have asked developers to pony up a fire
station site or and Mr moody we we we do entertain those we are part of the MPU process in the review uh we do entertain those conversations and we've been successful with with land acquisition through many of the developments at at the fair market uh land value um there
has been a a few of those developers that have done uh land donation uh for that um our most recent one we broke ground on last month station two in the uh 54 Men Point Boulevard corridor uh
station two they started site work last month last month y um and that was uh a land donation from that developer um and that was all in discussions through the MPUD process so we are fortunate where we have had opportunities and we have
and David if they do a a land if the developer gives land for like a fire station do they get just similar like we do with mobility fee credits they get credit against the land portion of the impact fee so now they
could do a charitable donation where they wouldn't get any credit that rarely occurs um no we'll take it it has I mean I the I will tell you the the park site we got in wire grass was a charitable donation was not for credit so
occasionally it does occur um but generally under state law we have to give them credits against the land part of our fee i will tell you that some developers complain when our fee is too low because they can't they can't absorb the credits right sure
the fee is too low so um you know we actually had a park site in two rivers that we're about to acquire where they there was no way we could have acquired it but for the increase in the impact fees to parks which you all voted against but um water under the bridge um
but it acquired it allowed us to acquire that a park site in two rivers that we otherwise would not have been able to do we need to find a way to do it in most recent instances we've still been forced to pay fair market value for the land that we're buying and put fire stations
on so yeah it's all it's always cheaper for us to get it through the development process and award credits than to force them to go out and buy it a site so I guess that's what I'm inviting you to do is we so often we get the comments
from your department in the MPUDS and the comment is no comment but we don't know to ask for such things if we don't hear from you and and also that that in our capital improvement plan our strategic align um we have where MPU may
coming in at the northwest corner and we've already secured land acquisitions on the northeast corner to where we we would respond No comment so the difference with fire to the reason you see like you see a land exaction on roads on almost every MPD that goes through the difference is that there's
roads everywhere but there's only so many fire stations they need so you're not going to see a exaction for a fire state on on every single No and I'm not expecting that we're exacting fire stations from 100 unit
MPUDs but it's the multi,000 unit ones and they've been in here before those are the appropriate ones and those are that's the time and the place and trust me they are asked on every one of these MPDs if that's the case and I
don't think they're trying to say is speak up you'll get them and usually the developers are are pretty accommodating when it comes to fire station sites they actually fight us less about those sites than they do school sites park sites they fight us more about school sites and park sites
than they do fire station sites because their request is usually like four to five acres it's not Well yeah it's smaller much smaller they don't want the Cadillac like Richard correct richard wanted 30 40 50 sites
if you're 35 we'll carve out five there you go another thing is that I will tell you that that a lot of times we acquire them as public safety sites occasionally the sheriff will put like a smoke substation in their facility as well i don't know
how often that's still occurring but it so all of our new builds um in the last 10 years has afforded space for a substation if you will for the sheriff's office so they do indirectly help the sheriff as well when we build these sites and then just a bit of an
unrelated question is there any development trend that has materialized over the past few years whether it be the way we design subdivisions or the way apartment
complexes are built and designed that causes any increase in the need for your service not not currently um you know our woodframe multif family is a fear in the industry uh abroad and it you know it's
spoken at at NFPA conferences uh we we heard lots of lectures on it at FDIC last week in Indianapolis um but we're not there it's all new construction so it's all going to be the human air component not your electrical fault and
your unintentional or not by design fires that we're not seeing them right now okay well that's good um you know that we've worked really well with a lot of the developers in the new uh horizontal apartment platform uh where they're you know conforming to our requests and needs for remote courtyards
and uh sprinklers systems residential systems in those units um as well as some design on our fire department connections to to reach all those units individually so and you have things like going to arc fault breakers and things like that which help a lot and there
there's a lot of new there's a lot of new technology coming out in the form of residential hood suppression systems as well as outlets that are integrated with smoke alarms and detection that will shut that down uh they're all still pending UL approvals but that'll be at
the forefront probably within the next three to five years so I have one more question for you since we're on unrelated topics to impact fees now um so there's a lot of times that we get presented with something called an emergency access to
the planning commission which I assume usually means there's some installation of some emergency gate who how does that work in practice like if there there's a fire or whatever like what what how do you get the gate open for a gate so we
we we have to have two means um we operate off of the SOS system which is it's activated by the siren so any electronic that that does not apply to me uh mechanical gates it's only electric gates there's a feature that uh acknowledges our mode on the siren and
that'll open it and sustain it open for a set duration of time um and then there's a secondary means that they have to provide either by a key device which can incorporate into our NOX system uh Richard I'm sure you're familiar with the Knox right so uh there's a a key
secure device in all of our apparatus that's unique to our organization and agency on all the commercial structures and any of those gates uh that key is taken out of the firetruck if you will and utilized to override in the event that that does that just change i if it's a recently got comments that we're
not doing boxes anymore that's just We have a Knox lock padlock uh that that operates off that function the school board does it on on all their mandates um and then they're swing arm gates that aren't electric and do you normally only do that when you're
bringing your own truck or are there times when you have to open up a gate like say there was a fire in the subdivision and you need to get people out of the subdivision do you sometimes open the gate for that reason too or like how how does it So that only applies to ingress so egress is all on
the approach okay um that that's with with any of the gate egress is is on the approach so usually it's by design with a metal sensor or weight switch or a pressure switch um I guess my question is have you ever used it in a scenario where your vehicle's already gotten
in but for whatever reason the fire or accident or whatever is blocking residents from being able to get out their normal exit have you ever opened it up for that purpose uh not not any instance that I know of um it's only
on the ingress side to the development of the community or their apartment complex um and then there there is a set default that it stays open so when the first apparatus if it is a multi-comp alarm where we have many units going in
the first company's not coming in with their sirens and then a second one so there is a delay that it will stay open uh but for for means of egress and to evacuate people um it's always always been on the the egret egress side of the the entrance well and if it's a manual
gate then that would be okay if it's manual gate yeah we'll usually try to put in a lock position but but I'm saying on on egress so leaving the neighborhood with a manual gate where you so you have the same ability to go from from that
side of the gate as well we have some instances um there are uh mostly on the west side of the county where there's a designated uh access for fire department access that has a manual gate and that would be our approach in so on the way
in that would go into a lock open position and residents would have the option yeah i'm basically just trying to figure out you have the ability to keep the gate open if you found that that was the only way that people could get in and out now if if it if it is we can override it
with a NOX switch um so we could in an instance like that put it in the open position and leave it till we restored it okay another situation would be like a car accident blocking the main entrance to a neighborhood but on on the SOS feature itself that's time delayed from activation
most of the automatic gates are designed with a release function once you're inside anyways quick flip of a switch we can release the the automatic openers on the gates anyways and move them where we wanted them so that's a real quick function for us
so to get back to impact fees though just uh to mention what you'd mentioned before about how we voted down the park parks and recck fee at the time i think it's generally because we're you know we're mostly made up of of a conservative board that's not crazy
about new taxes that being said um according to U Bureau of Labor and Statistics CPI inflation calculator if you calculate from 2003 when the impact fee was initiated for fire and rescue till now we've had compounded inflation
of 73.61% and you guys are looking for a 60% increase so just inflation alone not even talking about um population increase or anything else uh it justifies the 60% increase in impact
fees and compound inflation since 2003 that's something in my line of work we we watch inflation very closely so that's when I thought you know inflation is you hear the 2 and a half% number or 3% number obviously we had higher numbers in recent years but uh that's a
comp you know you got to think about that it's compounded it's not you know so over two you know 22 years that's a lot that way of clarification an impact fee is not legally not a tax well that's
that's true but it's effectively revenue side is that I don't want any of you be accused of raising taxes you are not raising taxes i want to be clear thank you we we want that capital revenue line to sustain our growth parallel to our service deliver in fact one could argue
that impact fees reduce tax burden and it does because we're not looking at that general fund of the MSTU to fund the the capital side of the house or you know looking at general obligations bonds um we want that that revenue stream you are reducing taxes you're not
increasing taxes yeah we're heroes yeah well I I think we're opposed to any new fees from government how about that but there are needs for it as I pointed out to someone who's going to be making the final decision on this
not just a recommendation in percentage terms it looks large in actual dollar terms when compared to the cost of a house it's not that large and again it's it's they're asking for a less percentage than just the inflation
over that period of time so in theory by the way I've raised that very complaint with legislators who who keep trying to change that statute because that 50% is it's relative to the to the base fee so
if your existing fee is $100 you know even a $50 increase has now triggered this extraordinary circumstances thing which is not fair to somebody who's got their fee so low to begin with so that's right it's it's
relative to the last time it was updated as well so the 50% is kind of an arbitrary number that doesn't make sense in a lot of circumstances 60% is not that big of a number when you talk about arbitrary things in government but that's a conversation for another day now if you guys are finished
buttering these guys up in case you ever need anything let's have a vote can we get Well this is just a workshop right well the first part is a workshop pc10's take action on the second one okay so I'll move approval for PC10 second we have a
motion and a second any further discussion all in favor signify by saying I I I post like sign silence thank you okay thank you great pres thank you thank you for your
service thank Yes thank you for your service all right move a journ maybe we should have done theirs first so everybody could happy that's right we talked about dogs and dogs you know we remember when we used
to get dog pounds all the time oh yeah we used to get them all the time well that's what I was asking all the questions because we used to get the there was the whole issue of dog kennels and puppy mills and it seems like we had one a week it was terrible
we were getting to be an expert motion to adjurnn Mr chair you have a motion second second favor i can I vote on that you can vote on that i'm a dog