##VIDEO ID:Fz8Z_gy4UtI## good evening on behalf of the governing body of the city of Pake we welcome you to the November 7th 2024 city council meeting in accordance with chapter 231 public laws of 1975 adequate notice of this meeting was provided by resolution of the municipal Council adopted on June 18th 2024 setting forth the schedule of meetings for the year 2024 2025 send notice was published and posted on the city hall bullet board by the office of the city clerk please be further advised this public meeting will be conducted in person the zoom stream provided is for viewing only and is offered to the public as a convenience on October 16 2024 public notice and zoom instructions for this meeting were published in The Herald news and posted on the city of Pake website www.city of.com Council agendas instructions are also available on the last page of this agenda please be guided accordingly roll call please councilman love present councilwoman Melo present councilman Schwarz present councilman Garcia pres councilwoman col monz and council president Sher president sh please rise Heavenly Father we want to thank you Lord for allowing us to be this evening we present to you this governing body in the administration we also present to you the agenda is set before us this evening we ask you to please guide us and the decisions that will take place this evening in your beloved name we pray amen amen I pledge Ali to the flag of the United States of America to the for it stands na if I may a note members of the Council on item 59 which is an ordinance to pencil for first reading there is a slight change which were informed by council is dominous and acceptable under Section 3 sub number four item number four we have minutes of July 2nd and July 16th are there any changes additions or corrections to either date July 2 or July 16 seeing none at this time is there a motion please to accept both minutes as presented by the cler move it second welcome please councilman monk yes councilman love yes councilwoman Melo yes councilman SCH yes councilman Garcia yes yes councilman monz yes and council president Sher yes thank you the minutes are passed but ter number five of our agenda if you are at home uh following the meeting with us you can get a copy of the agenda items and as well as all of the background material there they are available on the city's website we're up to R numeral five of our agenda mayor's update mayor after Tuesday it seems like there's so much to talk about I'm actually going to give a very brief update I will highlight the efforts and work of our city clerk during this election that things ran smoothly I believe we had over 40 uh young people that participated in this particular election process with the initiative of um having high school students actually work the election and it went tremendously well we had record numbers show up I want to take this opportunity as mayor to congratulate uh president reelect president Trump and uh vice president elect Vance as well as uh Senator Kim or Senator elect Andy Kim congresswoman elect Nelly Po in our County as well as all of the congression representatives locally in Pate County Sheriff elect Thomas Ado and elected Commissioners or reelected Commissioners John Bartley and Sandy lazara director John Bartley and commissioner deputy director director Sandy lazara as well as newly elected commissioner Rodney D'Or I want to thank all those who participated and also send a message to all those who ran and did not get to win however their participation in the process should be acknowledged and recognized with that said again I wanted to thank the city clerk we had close to 10,000 individuals that showed up just on Election Day alone that is not counting the early voting which was nine days right nine days of early voting as well as the mailin and provisionals that will be added but this may be the highest turnout in the history of the city of B and we're extremely encouraged by the additional participation of every resident my update again we'll be brief I'm actually going to request of the business administrator to share a bit of his report yesterday he presented the uh the renewed or Revis master plan with some additions to the planning board and I want to thank him for the work that he did along with uh David Charles as well as with the staff upstairs and administration and all that contributed in terms of our approach moving forward Mr administrator if you can conclude in this portion brief of the master plan yeah thank you very much mayor so thank you mayor please so every 10 years the municipality has to reexamine their master plan the last time that we did that was back in 2013 uh we did we took an extensive approach this time around especially because of all the changes that we've seen and going through a global pandemic we never thought that we'd be writing a re-examination report that would have to take into account uh the impacts of a global pandemic the the plan was circulated to the council uh probably U several weeks ago and we were lucky enough that it was reviewed and approved by the planning board uh yesterday evening there are number of recommendations that were in the master plan as we go through them uh we'll present some of those changes to the city council along with the analysis and data of each of one of those uh changes that are being requested and the reasons why uh but we really took an in-depth analysis took a look at all the direction of this Administration the changes that have occurred and based on those efforts and the changes in the uh Census Data kind of where does that lead us where are we going what where do we want to be as a city and uh I'd be happy to discuss any of those items with the city council as well as uh once the mayor and I get a chance to look at the recommendations to finalize the changes to bring them before the council for uh any ordinance amendments will they be presented to the council rookie um PCA or one solid document um so what we could do is I can give you a list of all the recommendations that we have and then each one of them have to be prepared because some of them are ordinance changes um so we I like to work with the lowest hanging fruit something that's going to impact the city as uh you know have a greater impact in the city we'd probably go with those first and then work our way through some of the other recommendations and obviously having discussions with the city council to to kind of explain why those recommendations are the way they are so depending on the sign ific an it may be taken on a portion by portion because the broke down the recommendations it's Economic Development recommendations housing recommendations land use recommendations things of that nature so um we may group them based on the section of the plan that they're in as we present them um depending on how many of the changes or recommendations we'll present uh it can most likely be grouped but not all at the exact same time very good questions at this time for the mayor and the ba good deal thank you Mr Mayor thank [Music] you very good there any other comments we're up to R six on our agenda hearing of citizens in accordance with the open public meetings Act njsa 10 col 4-1 at SEC the council opens every public meeting for comments of the public however in accordance with ajsa 10 4-12 nothing in this act shall be construed to limit the discretion of a public body to permit prohibit or regulate the active participation at any meeting therefore please be advised that the council will not entertain any comments from persons who communicate obscene material make statements which are considered the bias intimidation in which a person intends to intimidate any individual or group because of race color religion gender handicap sexual orientation or ethnicity or or makes comments intending to harass or speak any offensive language the person who makes these comments will relinquish their lotted five minutes for public discussion is there anyone who would like to address the council at this time yes ma'am good evening my name is Griggs I live at 23 Aspen Place Apartment 6C the last time I was at a city council meeting I left with a broken heart because I found out how we were treat I need you a little bit louder please oh louder yes ma'am is that good that's better okay let me stand up with a bigger posture I said I left here last we in with somewhat of a broken heart because I was approached by some homeless residents in the city of bake and they told me that their belongings was discarded and thrown in the trash I did not disbelieve them but when I came to the meeting I found out that was a directive that they belong is be thrown in the trash one of the young ladies that approached me last winter season asked me to buy her a coat I did I took her to several stores throughout our Main Avenue and I let her pick out the Cod she wanted and regardless of the price because she needed it and I live at home what about 32 coats for the winter so I didn't think it was uh anything that I could not fulfill she approached me and told me now the winter is coming and her coat was thrown out and I was heartbroken and like I said I came to the council meeting and I found out that was a city directive to throw away the homeless people's belongings so I was asked could could I come up with something by the homeless that happened to stay in front of City Hall I said maybe if the city as because a lot of this housing going up is not affordable I know everybody that owns a car is glad for the additional parking but could we come up with some kind of place where we could put some lockers that they could store their belongings in a lot of them don't have IDs some kind of system where we might could take their picture in case they lose their key to a locker where they are registered I get it no one wants their things all over bagged up across the city in Parks stored in places that can't but it's heartbreaking to know that we are throwing out every everything they own in the trash so I would like you to consider something like that finding a place where we could put up lockers and register them for that Locker we know with homelessness comes a lot of other issues drug abuse mental illness stuff like that some kind of system where they have access to their thing because I saw all summer long this young lady Carri in the coat I even watched it on several occasions for her because she was holding on to what she had and that's all she had had for the winter season to protect her from the elements so I'm asking you could consider something like that finding a location putting in some lockers so they stuff do not be just laid anywhere across the city of per say I do understand the scenar of it I I do but once again I was heartbroken and I will be buying that young lady and whatever person that need a cat for the winter like I said I own several so I don't think it's something that I cannot do for one of my fellow citizens I cannot actively stand up places and say invocations and then see people treated mistreated when they badly when they already have the odds against them thank you for hearing me thank you for your comments Chief can you help us with uh I just I don't I don't know who might have throwing this homeless person stuff out uh we don't have a directive to throw any homeless person or anybody's uh property out so I I really don't know um he who who's throwing these things out I know under the mayor's leadership the the city has been I don't want to use the term aggressive she did identify the two person my five minutes is really not up and she did say DPW threw them out and they were told to and if you check the minutes it was said last minute last me my understanding of that is council president is that the property is to be stored not thrown out so I don't know thank you chief for clarifying there is no directive bring de council president there's no directive uh from the administration or we aware of any other agency to throw out homeless possessions there has always been an approach of the city that any abandoned um items left in the city are to be picked up and taken to a location where people can reclaim them um if things are left such as there are laws against having the shopping carts in the city those can be taken by DPW and brought over there um there are certain areas where you cannot set up items like mattresses we had one instance I know that we have the director of DPW here where on Central on the parking lot there was a mattress and a barbecue grill that was set up that was taken by uh DPW and brought into the uh the property of DPW where the person could go and and reclaim it but it could not set up a grow and a mattress some bags are left around the city and if they're not claim DPW picks it up but that's not directed at anyone specifically it's an approach in order to ensure that we're addressing concerns around the city if anyone believes that their personal items are taken they are welcome to come to the city and say where are they and they can go through them of course the police and the DPW will facilitate any process as to um obvious any initiatives a dignity house Resource Center that we have available once a week all homers are invited to uh take showers and have their clothes washed that's been going on for years and everyone's invited to go through Human Services we keep records of everyone that goes every single week um in terms of storing we will definitely explore with the attorney there may be some concern of liabilities of whether we would be responsible for any items lost or if an individual says I have this in the locker and it's not there so we'll explore with the attorney I think it's an excellent idea in theory but obviously as Government if a not for-profit would like to do it they have a little bit more leeway than government does we have a responsibility to ensure that our approach is done the most responsible and organized manner so if someone states there was a locker and it got broken into the city would now be liable for any item taken we usually Reserve lockers for police and fire but we've we have not had a public lock loer program for anyone the community we will explore while the attorney but other than that again I'll assure you there's no directive there's only and this applies if you have a home or not if you have a home and you leave your items unattended in the street they can be picked up if you have a home and you uh set up a barbecue or a mattress or leave a bag out on the corner and don't come back to pick it up it will be taken if you have a property and decide to uh set up a tent in the city without a permit then it will be taken but this has nothing to do with your status we want to assist the homeless and facilitate any help we'll direct them to any agency that isn't here but again that approach of grabbing anything on the street that applies to anyone whether you're homeless or not excellent thank you mayor anyone else wish to address the council saying no hands I'm over to close the public portion there's a motion there's a second to close public portion roll call please councilman monk yes councilman love yes councilwoman Melo yes councilman Schwarz yes councilman Garcia councilwoman goong monz and council president Sher yes thank you we're up to ran numeral seven on our agenda ordinance for second and final reading hearing is required number one proposed ordinance 2468 d24 an ordinance amending the designation of restricted parking for disabled persons by New Jersey license plate number is there a motion please to open public hearing so moving motion is there a second second motion and second roll call please councilman monk yes councilman love yes councilwoman Melo yes councilman Schwarz yes councilman Garcia yes councilwoman colong monz and council president Sher yes thank you ladies and gentlemen at this time the council is contemplating proposed ordinance 2468 d24 if there's anyone who would like to address the Council on this item and this item only seeing hand please Council move council president thank you sir is there a motion in second councilman monk yes councilman love yes councilwoman Melo yes councilman schw yes councilman Garcia yes councilwoman go monz and council president Sher yes thank you we're up to r a numeral eight on our agenda discussion on authorities and agencies as per the state of New Jersey best practice council president excuse me we need to move on the ordinance yeah is there there is a move is there a second please I apologize there is a motion there is a second okay councilman monk yes councilman love yes councilwoman Melo yes councilman Schwarz yes councilman Garcia yes councilwoman colom monz and council president Sher yes thank you now we're okay all right ran numeral eight thank you councilman by the way no problem uh discussion on authorities and agencies as for the state of New Jersey best practices Mr Fernandez um so once again we did our annual review of the city's best practices and how um the city is running in comparison to those practices that the state of New Jersey deems to be appropriate once again we are at over the 90th percentile on the score of the summary as the council may recall uh it's a graded questionnaire that we have to do and if we fall below the uh minimum score we fail the test and depending on how greatly we fail we lose State funding I could tell you that at least since 2018 the city of Pake has been consistently over the 95 the 90 percentile this year we 95% of the reasons we did not get a 100 right the questions are why didn't you get 100 there's really it really has to do it has to do with the budget um and when the budget is implemented and when the annual financial statement is provided so some of that has to do with discussions of issues at hand presentations as well as getting the annual financial statement from our auditor uh and those are really the two main reasons for the reduction in the uh in the score but again we have a very high percentile um the total possible the highest total possible score was 46.5 we got 44 uh and the number to lose that would start losing State funding was 35 so we were significantly above that we were almost at the uh total score just so you can kind of get an idea uh all our agencies and authorities have had their audits all of them have um passed their audits with either no recommendations or very minor recommendations and and we're we're running along as is appropriate for a city of our size and for this score uh it really shows for a city of our size with everything that it is that we have going on and the number of Grants and things of that number that we're scoring this High uh is a testament to all the work of all the directors and employees within the administration so how much time does the whatever Department of TR in charge how much time do they really spend with each municipality uh in terms of arriving at a good score or a bad score so they so what they do is they prepare the questionnaire and they they have a system that they have prepared so there are questions that are weighted there are questions that do not give you any points and then depending on that sometimes the questions you get one year that are not weighted a year later become weighted right and they they kind of circulate these questions um and they change every year I mean I hear that the municipality scored 90 I mean I think that's pretty amazing I would agree all right so I'm not out of left field or right field we got an A almost A+ right what's 95 I think we're almost at an A+ for six years straight that's correct a testament is Right any questions for Mr Fernandez just real um quick council president um do you remember off hand what the recommendation was for that budget issue that we're having so it's just timing it's just getting it in listen this is not an uncommon issue for municipalities of our size right uh many many municipalities do their budgets far after the state requirement and we're actually even though we didn't hit the timeline we hit it shortly after right there are municipalities that go almost the entire year on a uh temporary budget and then in December right before the old budget is due they passed the budget with all the money they already did so uh we're not one of those towns but we do take our time as you all know uh we have we have been one of those towns yes am I right in in believing that we at there have been years prior to this administration of course but there have been years when we submitted the documents after the the new year had started right um I can only this Administration we have not done that so that's why over the last uh six years you haven't we haven't had that issue but I will sh sometimes the delay is out of the control of the council and the administration it's contingent on certain information or certain policies that are waiting on or certain information that we need in order to have a complete budget it changes from year to year but that's why it's not an uncommon thing it's not a director I guess result of of any dereliction of Duty or any purposeful delay obviously for the council to consider the budget and adopt it they have to have all the information before them so sometimes we're waiting on items and that doesn't always line up on the dates that's a great segue and I was and I was going towards that that way so I want to thank you for anticipating that um because I do know also the state right with with their demands sometimes pushes us back because when they're asking for different things so we're asking you know by the time they get documents over could push the budget back as well so I appreciate your and remember that it's all dependent on the auditor getting us the annual financial statement in a timely fashion so they're waiting for reports as well so it's a combination of many things so realistically that's always or or most likely going to be an issue for it'll happen more times than not okay all right thank you any other questions soon if we can go on to our next item Communications from the numeral nine on our agenda items two through 21 I believe two through any comments on items two through2 sign lights at this time is there a motion please to accept 2 through 21 motion and second dra call please councilman monk yes councilman love yes councilwoman melow yes councilman Schwarz yes councilman Garcia yes councilwoman goz and council president Sher yes thank you very much we're up to all matters listed to be routine in nature items 22 through 30 are there any questions on items 22 through 30 seeing none is there a motion please to accept items 22 through 30 motion and second R call please councilman Monk so 20 um one thing I have to tell if we do a separate vote on 16 I'm sorry sir separate vote on 16 please separate vote on 16 aded when we take exceptions first with the council's permission and do item 16 alone is there a motion please to accept item 16 we already voted on already accepted it back I someone who voted positive I have a positive vote in the last motion on a second to uh the V to accept the communications thank you thank you we have the motion thank you roll call please councilman monk yes councilman love yes councilman Melo yes councilman Schwarz yes councilman Garcia yes councilman colz and counc president sh yes that we just rescinded the motion now we will remake vote on everything again for item 16 items for items 2 through 15 and six and 17- 20 one so move second motion and second roll call please councilman monk yes councilman love yes councilwoman Melo yes councilman Schwarz yes councilman Garcia yes councilwoman go yes and council president sh yes thank you on 20 no 16 we just did 16 no we skipped we skipped 16 okay we're doing 16 I mooved that we have a separate roll call on item 16 second motion on 16 please roll call councilman monk huse councilman love yes councilwoman Melo yes councilman Schwarz councilman Garcia yes councilwoman monz and council president Sher yes thank you on 31 please is there a motion to accept second motion and second on 31 please councilman monk yes councilman love councilwoman Melo yes councilman Schwarz yes councilman Garcia yes councilman col monz and council president Shar yes thank you we're up to resolutions R numeral 10 on our agenda item 32 is a resolution authorizing closed executive session sus do we need closed executive no council president thank you Mr Fernandez no council president Mr Mayor sir thank you sir members of the council okay if we could council president yes sir we have to do 2 we already have um love and melow we just need to complete the roll call you have to complete 2 30 is the councilwoman correct she almost always is no she's we have we need a separate resolution on 23 through 30 22 through 30 do I have consensus on that yes sir yes it seems to me we're doing a lot of approvals here is there a motion please to accept items 22 through 30 move second roll call please councilman monk yes councilman love yes councilwoman Melo councilman Schwarz councilman Garcia yes councilwoman goom yes and council president share okay if that wasn't enough fun now we're getting into contracts items 33 through 55 questions please on 33 through 55 councilman monk thank you yes thank you council president so item 38 resolution for Engineering Services I'm pretty sure we had this conversation last year resol just trouble um Administration just to get clarity again um we're using this company as our engineering to fill the engineering office right the Personnel that's correct they are in all extensive purposes this firm is the city's engineer and and and and I'm sure we discussed this I just I don't remember what what was the advantage of giving it out as opposed to doing having in-house in-house engineer uh so there there are no um a number of advantages by having um a firm one of them is there's multiple Engineers no one's out on vacation ever they have to provide coverage uh during that time there's no um insurance payments pension payments um salary expenses on the city side with all the additional taxes and the health benefits and things of that nature versus one individual and uh most importantly on the minor jobs they it comes out of that office so a lot of plans that we might have bid out in the past there are some of the more minor ones uh like designing of a section of a park or something that's more minor nature comes out of that office with the current staff versus having us bid it out uh to a firm that would then you know create that so it creates a little bit more efficiency as well to get projects out a little faster um as well as the other things that we kind of mentioned so so so there was a full I guess on analysis in terms of what the cost would be to have it inhouse yes so there there was an increase in this year's contract and the mayor has directed me to do an analysis based on the growing need versus what the current rates are um and again these are professional contracts that only last a year so depending on the outcome of that we'll decide I'll get direction on whether we're gonna try to hire somebody or if we're going to continue with the contract uh at the current rate uh right now this contract will get us an engineer and the reason for the increase is to get us an engineer the entire week for the number of hours that were there so that created the increase and also the firm uh added the an additional um hourly rate was a little bit higher than it was last year so those two things combined raised it which then LED uh to the direction um directive to reanalyze the the service and to see what what the value would be in getting an inhouse so we're in the process of doing that we hope that before these bids go out next year uh we'll have an answer and there might be um there might be a add out for an engineer I don't know I could tell you that with all the the benefits and everything that we do with an engineer you're you're you're definitely looking over the 200,000 when you add health benefits vacation time and all that and liabilities and all those other things I do this with that that mindset that again not looking to take anyone's job away but coun I need that mindset why won we just to me every Department maybe every but maybe other departments we should do third party as well if we want look at to save benefits and the payroll tax and so on so forth so it doesn't always work right so in certain positions like for example let's say you're construction official you really can't go ahead and just do that right uh the services that we provide our residents would be hindered in certain departments uh but for example in that department instead of hiring a mechanical inspector to do our elevators we went to an outside party to do that because it was more beneficial uh in fact the city several years ago went out to private inspection firms to do some of our inspections and it just was inefficient with all the construction that we're blessed to have in the city to do it that way um so we do try and depending on how the Y comes are so we've done it it wasn't efficient it wasn't effective and it was hindering um what what's the term we don't want to be Penny wise and dollar foolish where then bringing another $50,000 on the tax roll would suffer because we couldn't get the inspection done in time so those are we we take a holistic approach uh when we do this to make sure it works and like I said once uh immediately once uh I spoke to the mayor and he saw the numbers he's like let's take a look and make sure that this is still effective and efficient May adequately point out the discussion appreciate the always taking a fresh look at everything you know appreciate that item 40 so seems like it was bit out it's architectural work there was there was a firm that was cheaper per hour and everything just wondering what the process was in picking this architect architect because of the the services so we' we've already worked with them they're in the middle of doing uh projects it's not one of those massive contracts that hit the number all the time so we figured uh service and efficiency over price because of that price obviously if we were talking High six figures we'd be having a different type of conversation uh but because of the size of the contract because of the services that we've been provided uh by the contract and the that they've already given us uh we felt that it would be in the city's best interest to continue with the current firm that we've had for the last several years so there's something to be said about continuity of service okay thank you thank you item 44 there a change order for the parking deck yeah significant hit over there over $300,000 so there's different parts of it there's one part of um the the Earth the dirt had had contaminat so I guess there was no phase one done prior to Construction so so there was so there was and it there was an allowance for that the issue is when they there were two issues one was an oil tank that showed up out of nowhere two there were foundations of old buildings that were found in when they were digging up and then thirdly so I'm going to say this is not the last change order you're going to see when we did the uh the wall that is closest to the neighbors property on where the structure is going to be built um it was just a false wall so there was no footing or foundation in that wall that holds up that dirt so they had they're going to have to shore up that section of the wall so you're going to get a number of chain doors the good thing is that with let's just say this number was a lot higher there was a lot of negotiation and discussions with the contractor and our professionals and one of the things that our uh professional firm the inspectors that are hired on the city's behalf did say that in these types of projects this is where the change orders are once we get the U the soil completed it's they're pre-cast so it's really more of a jigsaw puzzle so there if there are change orders there are much more minor in nature than this uh which leads to the next thing now that we're on the parking deck starting um next week you're probably going to start seeing State Street closed as they start bringing the pieces in so for the next three or four months State Street heading south will be Clos so that these massive cranes and things bring in the pieces so we hope that by early next year right mayor you're gonna have something that looks like a deck you won't be able to drive it it'll be no floors but it'll be stacked up and it'll look like a parking deck just but mentioning that retainer I I read through this it seems that retaining the new retainer R is included in this change order it's a $300,000 there is a $300,000 change order yep but the soil so the soil numbers there's some soil numbers and there yeah but there's not what I'm trying to tell you you're not going to get all soil numbers once that was one half of the that was one half of the soil removal you're going to get the other half of the soil removal uh the good thing is that we did put in a contingency as part of this project and we have not hit the contingency so there's still money uh left in the contingency so that we're not over budget thank you Mr fernandz on 38 uh the engineering contract is all of that from the general fund does any of that come from Grants rewards uh no so this is mostly from the general fund yes this comes from the general fund the other ones such as the um architect the encal engineers those come out of uh grants but the majority of this contract is uh general fund virtually all of these uh resolutions that we're looking for approval tonight um how much did they go up versus last year do you have any general the great majority of them stayed exactly the same uh so if you want me to kind of go through them very quickly for the council uh let's start with 33 same vendor same price 34 same vendor same price 35 same vendor same price 36 same vendor same price 37 same vendor same price 38 we just discussed on the changes 39 same vendor same price 40 same vendor same price 41 same vendor same price just make sure I'm getting all the contracts but you get the you get the gist right they're almost all same vendor same price I think that covers instruction 69 yeah that's it everybody with the exception of 37 same vendor same price I mean I'm sorry 38 okay are there any other questions on items 33 through 55 please note on 55 as we said earlier is it 55 that's 59 excuse me I'm sorry are there any other questions hearing none at this time is there a motion please to accept items 33 through 55 motion and second roll call please councilman monk yes councilman love yes councilwoman Melo yes councilman Schwarz yes Council Garcia yes councilman go monz and council president Sher we just okay we're up to R numeral 11 on sorry council president Shar you just need to vote on this one I'm sorry I need your vote Yes we up to 11 ordinances for introduction and first reading number 56 proposed ordinance amending chapter 295 of the code of the city of pic entitled vehicles and traffic ordinance for second and final reading to be set for December 3 2024 is there a motion please to accept for set down December 3rd motion second and second Ro call please thank you councilman monk yes councilman love yes councilwoman Melo yes councilman Schwarz yes councilman Garcia yes councilman monz and council president sh yes thank you 157 please proposed ordinance amending the city code of the city of the chapter 295 vehicles and traffic article 16 bus stops section 38 locations to remove bus stop on pic Street ordinance for second and final reading to be set for December 3rd 2024 is there a motion to accept please second motion and second thank you roll call councilman monk yes councilman love yes councilwoman melow yes councilman Schwarz yes councilman Garcia yes Council and council president sh yes thank you 158 please proposed ordinance amending city code of the city pic chapter 295 vehicles and maintenance article 12 schedule section 20.1 schedule schedule uh 2A official parking ordinance for second and final reading to be set for December 3rd 2024 is there a motion please motion and second roll call please councilman monk yes councilman love yes councilwoman Melo yes councilman Schwarz yes councilman Garcia yes councilwoman go monz council president Sher yes thank you we're on 59 please um as for the announcement we made earlier at the opening of the meeting without objection on 59 please language on Section 3 278 5 a the language should change to or correct whetherly the word black or white black or white Susie this is not considered a problem to add it is dominous very good that being the case is there motion please to accept on 59 for set down at our meeting of December 3rd motion and second roll call please councilman monk yes councilman love yes councilman Melo yes councilman Schwarz yes councilman Garcia yes councilman colz council president Shar yes thank you payment of bills please R 12 is there a motion please to accept the bills as presented motion please motion and second roll call please on payment of bills councilman monk yes councilman love yes councilman Melo yes councilman short yes councilman Garcia yes coun woman council president sh with the council thank you yes with the council's approval at our last meeting in fact plural meetings U it was shared with us by the administration and by our uh legal team and that we are having a problem filling the various positions in the rent leveling board as we all know the rent L board is composed of three individuals and experts a tenant um and a landlord um we have one person already and assembly Council Melo suggested another we're still missing we do have a number of uh items that have come to us that need to be considered the council instructed me at our last meeting to speak with the legal team and to impose on them for some suggestions that they might offer to us in terms of the predicament that we're in versus the need legally to get this accomplished Susie can we turn so I think there's several things that we could do um the first thing is we could amend the ordinance um to instead of having a rent leveling board to have a hearing officer I would Envision that would be someone with some kind of legal expertise and background who would serve as the offic um that would be a paid position it would be appointed for whatever ter you see is fit um and that would resolve the problem of of getting these hearings done um and getting someone willingly to serve that's option number one um option number two is we could play with the requirements um instead of requiring a landlord um a tenant and an expert we could open it up to be um just three forsake residents and that may increase the the pool of people um and make it easier to procure people who are willing to serve on the board um you know the third thing that we could do is um advertise and that we're going to have a process where people if they're interested because we may not be reaching everyone that may be willing to serve on the board um and accept you know perhaps through the city clerk applications with credentials and resumés for the council to vet and elect who will be the successful um appointees I I think those are the three things that you know we could think of that would alleviate the problem so first would be a hearing officer yes and that would be a position that would be a paain position um you know there there may be a potential of of utilizing um one of the professionals um already on the list um within their contract such as special legal councel um or we can appoint you know someone else a prosecutor someone from the AG's office but you know that's that that's the concept and the second the second is to um open it up not have a a requirement that it be a landlord a tenant and a professional um it could just be three forsake residents the and that increases your potential pool of people to select from um you know well it doesn't but it doesn't provide the balance that the original ordinance provided it does not you know I I think it's more optimal to have the landlord the tenant and the expert but if if we can't find people to fill the positions that is um it's another alternative the third is to um advertise that that we need people to serve on the board post something on the on the city's website and say if you're interested um please give us your information your credentials come apply and we'll take a look um and the council can see if there are applicants that they think um would be a good fit for the board that would apply to all of our boards yes that could be easily apply to all of our boards but then it becomes a free-for-all really who applies for the various positions whereas currently the way the system works and has worked for many years and I think successfully so is appointments that are made appointments that the council makes versus those that are made by the executive um they' always has been a bit more controlled with responsibility which is why we have usually dismissed that idea um as one which would not really be workable or desirable in terms of what we've been looking to do and based upon what the city looks like today I mean I'll tell you I think that anything that reaffirms that is is a positive members of the council yes any questions on question yeah go ahead are we having trouble finding anybody or landlords or tenants but right now we don't have anybody that unless there been something new that's changed over the last couple weeks the board um has been sitting vacant um we we don't have an expert um I know that there was an expert who was interested in serving but they are not in sake they're from another town um you know that that it's a possibility you could change the expert requirements also so but that still leaves two other positions that we've been unable to um fulfill and I guess um the council hasn't been able to procure um someone that's willing and that they think would be a good fit for the board excuse me council president if I may to the attorney if you can just clarify for the councilman because he asks if we can find anyone perhaps the process hasn't been made clear that this is an appointment of the council so any suggestion of any council member would be uh considered for it it's not an appointment of the administration and it's not an open position forgive me prob it's not an open position that's been posted so just just to clarify that that we can't find anyone I know that's what the councilman schz was trying to ask it's not like it's posted um it's simply if any council member it's only three individuals if any council member were to bring a resume of somebody they would be considered and voted on we just haven't had any brought up right now thank you for theara thank you Council I I did I did submit I believe that would have been a tenant yes first PR tenant yeah made a suggestion so our city council um actually touched on where I wanted to go um at least that would give us a pool of um landlords if we opened up the residency partk right because there's some landlords who who own um places here in Pake um who they want to serve on that board right and and they know the make up and they know the land of forsake so that would at least help us with that one expert um that's a thought process of of opening it up to landlords who don't live in in the city of sake but could possibly own and Andor U maybe not own because um being on that board we need different perspectives from different areas right um Pake is unique but there are other towns that's very similar so to have a a fresh uh mind and a and thinking from another municipality may not be a bad thing on the board that's a thought process the second is I I only can speak for myself and and I I toy with it with um the city clerk but the mayor touched on it I haven't been aggressive myself with with seeking anyone I think that this Council should set a hard date um of of of uh seeking applicants or or people to serve and then start looking at different um ways of of getting this done um I don't agree at this point a paid person right now um but if that's the option after the hard date where each one of us are are actively seeking because I again I only can speak for myself um I I I spoke to the city clerk a few times but I didn't uh follow up as as I should have and I think that a hard date by all of us collectively the seven of us should should um yield some some qualified individuals I uh just wanted to share what we all all of us know and that is that this board has always been so very very difficult yes but the board's Authority far exceeds far exceeds um what any of us really could consider um I never un understood the real role of the board um it is considerable it is considerable landlords if I'm not mistaken do not need to be residents of the city am I am I correct Susan no um everyone needs to be a res at this point but we can modify that but we can modify that I'm sorry resent every member has to be resent I understand which was also a question we had were like a landlord yeah you do have landlords that don't yes but they have to they have to own be a landlord in P may be different than a resident of bake what's our disposition question with the paid position option is it true that whenever the board would meet we're paying an attorney regardless during that period and therefore the paid position isn't really costing the city anything because we would be paying someone regard to um babysit the hearing so if if I could just go ahead Susie well there's a this paid position would be someone to conduct a hearing um which doesn't necessarily but we have to have an attorney present whenever the hearing would happen anyway so we have to pay we're paying someone regardless you have to pay someone there's the rent leveling board attorney but they um are providing advice um and mediation services it would be the commiss so they it would have to be someone other than level still need the attorney during the hearing yes yes so if I um councilman the way it's currently working and I have to tell you we've been doing a pretty good job we haven't had a need for a hearing the attorney has been pretty much mediating every single one of these things and both the landlords and the tenants have come to agreements through this mediation so the the red leveling attorney has been handling those things what happens now that being the case are we compelled to fill well this is this is the next problem right so now I now can't come to an agreement which is the current situation with the one specific case let's be clear it's one specific case um the mediation they're going through the mediation they're not coming together right then ultimately what has to happen either the board or some sort of hearing entity would have to hear the case and then adjudicate what would happen right uh and then the Rand leveling board attorney would present the mediation discussions and provide the guidance and then some sort of entity would have to opine on it that then would be uh you know have would have to be binding on both sides uh for whatever that ultimate you know decision is made so that's what we're missing right now is that last piece so to the councilman's question when would we pay the hearing officer it's only if they need a hearing that's how that would be if you have a rent leveling board there may be meetings that the board may have to have discussions on different rent leveling issues but if you're having a hearing officer they're there for a hearing and only when a hearing happens that's the way we're envisioning it uh if that were the route that the council wished to take as the attorney was discussing the options but but if I can I'm sorry coun councilman Schwarz I'm good Council love I just want to just go back to that mediation part and and I think um well not that think some citizens have stressed the fact that they settle because there's not another option in terms of hearing um so so today there is an option yeah today there is an option you are the option right so in the absence of the rent leveling board and the absence of mediation it would be a hearing here here at the council at the council okay right so that's like if nothing comes up and we haven't decided to do any of those options that the attorney said and the council's still deliberating and there has to a response because there is timing that's in the ordinance right of certain time frames that have to be met um then really the council is up no choice but to hear the case right that's problematic because you're supposed to act the appell as the Appel so you really can't can't do both so you really can't how you can't conduct the hearing because you're supposed to be reserved to hear and appeel is is there any problem is there any way to to get some figures on what the cost may be for for for um that Herring office so like for example in the pinch like in a pinch Susie said special legal council can be included as that right now their rates at $125 an hour we can go out to bid maybe the rate comes in lower maybe the rate comes in higher I can tell you we historically have the lowest rates hourly rates for attorneys than our neighboring towns but right now if we were to say listen we need a hearing officer right now let's just say it's special counsel for right now that would be at $125 an hour and I don't know how long the hearing will take right it could be done in a day or it may take several hearings I don't know it depends on the severity of the case and time yes absolutely you know it's not just you walk in show and so there's before preparation there's during the hearing and then there's sitting down and writing an opinion okay I just want to know what do they meet just when they're needed or are they meeting every month like the normal so a hearing a hearing officer would be only for a hearing not the hearing officer talk the board the board can set normal schedule like any other board and decide to have discussions and and the can ask questions of the rent leveling board and they can submit recommendations to this Council just like any other board uh within the city like hours right it's not set meetings like the planning board has a meeting every month I'm trying to like when I speak no they they would they could meet they could Council Woman made one Clarity on could or have to could would be a decision that they would make they could choose legally are they required the councilman wants to know are they required to meet on a monthly basis like our other boards if they are not required then the response councilwoman if I may would be they could choose to meet like the planning zoning Redevelopment Parking Authority or they could choose to meet according to a particular case and say we'll meet if we have three cases we'll meet this month there's no need to meet they have the option to choose right agenda items if No Agenda items I'm thinking the rent I'm thinking are they gonna like like if I I didn't know anything about this and I would come in I say I'm I'm a tenant I would like to be on it am I gonna be given paperwork to understand what the what is expected of me it would be like any board you and all members would be briefed on the on on your powers your responsibilities your controls Etc I think that that may be one of the uh concerns the the rent leveling board specifically was set up with three individuals from three different areas you have the landlord you have the tenant you have the professional and then the idea would be the decisions would be to certain extent you're looking for fairness you're saying there wasn't just one perspective and then people would claim the reason why they keep deciding is because there's only one perspective if someone would to say well of course the landlord's going to V like this well you have three individuals so the tenant either agrees the majority of the board so each time and then the council would serve as the Appellate level or the appealing body in case there are any concerns so that would be the intent of the original I guess R leveling board okay thank you understandable is there any guidance in terms of how we should be proceeding it seems to me there are several options before us those enumerated by Susie the option of doing nothing the option of a hearing officer um the option of of including anyone and not just City paic residents and I believe councilman love suggested setting a hard and fast date procure recommendations and then revisiting the issue Land reming thec from the landord landord I think the only one we should remove the residency should be the landord um because the landlord could be in clion but they own property here in the city of but for um because you're in um the expert I mean you can find any real estate agent I'm assuming that those are like the requirements what are the requirements for an expert I'm saying that you being an the definition you yours to you're living it you're living that that role mean anyone that will be familiar Miss with the do we want to uh do we want to put this on the shelf for our next meeting and at that point U hopefully I've given it some thought and discussions counc president councilman Garcia is trying to speak councilman Garcia forgive me Sir Mr President you just answer my question so I would like to have more time on this so maybe we can find somebody take that position thank you um I think under any circumstance uh councilman uh the council is not prepared tonight to take any any uh long-term action but rather as a discussion item uh to be considered perhaps at our next meeting or some meeting thereafter but I don't believe that any of us envisioned that we' be taking uh action tonight and if we would it would necessarily need to be an ordinance for first reading um so there' be time to develop and time uh to expand upon it any thoughts ladies and gentlemen I would go I'm sorry Ma I would go with um giving a date to see if we now the holidays are coming we to meet see more people maybe we'll be able to give us time to search for someone that's willing to take the position or you not the position take be on so the suggestion is to put this back on our agenda formally um perhaps a month from now from now is that acceptable acceptable all right that being the case with the council's permission let's please SCH schedule uh not at our next meeting whether Le at the meeting thereafter December 17th December 17th um we continue the discussion and hopefully come up with some clear recommendations that we can act upon therea council president forg me just for clarity are you are you setting a date according to the recommendation of council L for people to bring suggestions or to revisit the options to R the options I so it's not the council are going to bring suggestions for people to appoint to the board it's to have a conversation on this on on the structure and form itself okay rather than the individuals who would comprise okay because she was saying they're GNA do councilman that wasn't councilman love suggestion so it's on December we're GNA we're going to revisit the structure of this but not that the council would come with recommendations to appoint for the board yet so I think we need Clarity on that because I'm thinking by December 17th we can we can get some things done right so when we revisit this um on December 17th we can have those options of names and take it from there or if we don't have the names at that point we or we can revisit all the options with names on December 17th rather than just revisit our options on these because now if we come back on December 17th this my my thought and we say okay we're going to go with submit names now that pushes us back even farther so maybe I'm being a bit crash and forgive me if that's the case but this has been hanging around our head for how long yes another two weeks it's not going to change the world so another two but another two weeks for us to decide whether we're going to bring back names it it may not change the world but I think that's time that we can be also submitting names Direction I I feel be either way two people suggested bringing in names councilman M Council woman Mel well I think um for the December 3rd we can revisit the structure and then December 17 at that point I think because we have two more meetings so the structure we can work on December 3rd if which way we want to go and by the 17th we should have names um if we decide to go with names because I think one of the options that may work it's opening the landlord residency and that I think will kind of alleviate and will allow us to to come up with names and have makes sense councilman Schwartz I don't think they're exclusive um targets I think basically you should have a drop dead date which which if we don't have names then we go to plan B which is hiring somebody Council we're going to get no yes same here it'll be available to Rican B sched for we're going to do our best to get names and get it done we have agreement on all this and we canose on the administration to uh help us on a practical level as well I'm sure sure would you would you allow council president I know that we want to wrap this up just for a brief comment please I don't want to um speak for any but I believe there's a discussion that's not being had and I I want to make sure that we're all clear on the same page the rent leveling board is a sensitive board and placing individuals on it with awesome Authority and power may be part of the conversation that the council want to have because and I do not want to speak for the council president I believe he's attempting I believe effectively so I I don't want to pretend to try to further clarify but perhaps for me I'll do it more for me to clarify council president let me know if I'm understanding this clearly coming up with the names alone for this board may not be sufficient because the the level of education and quality of individuals is extremely important because of the decisions that can be made and the precedents that can be set we're talking about attorneys we're talking about disputes that we're trying to address before it would have to go to court or come to the city council as the appealing Authority or the appellant authority it is something that I would propose to the council members to consider carefully in terms of the names this cannot be just any individuals that come on the board because they will make determinations of very serious concerns that affect the lives of tenants of uh property owners and again and our attorney Susie would speak to this they could set precedent in many of our boards the way it's set up and perhaps easier to appoint it's because there's enough checks and balances within the process where it goes to the planning it comes to the council sometimes goes back to the planning where here you may find that a decision is made and does not go through a vetting process or checks and balances so I would just ask that if you are going to go to the option of having an individuals on Deadline that they be very carefully vetted or if you seriously consider the structure with some options you can vet a professional that will be held accountable and has the legal background and professional um expertise to make those kind of determinations but if we place uh residents and I think the residents of City Pake are amazing and fantastic but if a board is is filled with individuals that perhaps only see one perspective there could be a lot of decisions and this Council may find themselves inundated with a lot of appeal heals in in terms of decisions that are being made so please consider uh if you're going to make those suggestions to have individuals understand the weight and the importance of this board because I think the council president again council president forgive me if I'm adding to what you're saying was trying to clarify that this board is an extremely important board the way it's set up and the authority May Escape some people until you've placed them on there and they realize the decisions they're making have long lasting impact on the city thank you Council pres thank you for thank you for expounding upon what I was trying to say so much better what you say um this board potentially I mean seems a little bit absurd that on one hand we can't find people to serve on the board and on the other hand we have a board which potentially has extraordinary power and ability um and there is there is in in many municipalities that I'm familiar with there has been a race to the bottom not a r to the top where people for their own personal privilege have used these positions um to establish their own agenda which in in a number of cases have involved U visits at a Penitentiary for a period of time so I am very cautious here um in one sense I will tell you the council uh asked that we uh find a way to begin having a discussion on the item and I think that's exactly what we've done there's been some excellent thoughts being suggested here um and I thank my colleagues uh for that um the import of the administration is absolutely necessary um and although we know it is the power of the council um as mayor you've been so kind is to open up your doors for the council to join you in any decision making so we would hope that you would continue the same with us um and be the continuing positive influence that you have been so very much in these past months and years um why don't we follow U if there's no objection why don't we follow the uh combined suggestions that were made and use both of them and I think councilman Miller you were the one who phrased it and I think councilman Schwarz whoever his ownership it might be and that is at our next council meeting we discuss structure how it would work costs involved Etc and reserve the meeting following with implementation meaning potentially choosing individuals meaning potentially choosing an officer moving however we would go does that seem to to meet what it is that we're trying to do yes everyone's comfortable with it without prejudice absolutely very good let's go in that direction and if we can come back to the agenda with the council's kind permission mayor's report Mr Mayor the date that they had available the veterans and the the state representatives but it will be Saturday at 9:00 am. at Armory Park um if if you cannot make it perhaps to send a message on your behalf and we'll have it read that day for the veterans it would be very kind sir members of the council that being the case is there a motion to ad so Move Motion is there a second to adum please motion and second to adj councilman monk yes councilman love yes councilman Melo yes councilman schw yes councilman Garcia yes Council MZ yes council president sh yes thank you this meeting is adjourned