Good evening. On behalf of the governing body, we welcome you to the May 19th, 2026 city council meeting. In accordance with chapter 231, public laws of 1975, adequate notice of this meeting was provided by resolution of the municipal
council adopted on June 17th, 2025, setting forth the schedule of meetings for the year 2025-2026. notice was published and posted on the city hall bulletin board by the office of the city clerk. Please be further advised
this meeting will be conducted in person. The zoom stream provided is for viewing only and is offered to the public as a convenience on May 7th, 2026. Public notice and zoom instructions for this meeting were posted on the city of Pake website at www. city of poseake.com. Council
agendas instructions are also available on the last page of this agenda. Please be guided accordingly. >> Roll call, please. >> Councilman Monk, >> present. >> Councilman Love, >> present. >> Councilwoman Melo, >> present. Councilman Mayor, >> present.
>> Councilman Garcia, >> present. >> Councilwoman Colonz, >> present. >> And Council President Sher, >> present. Shall we please? >> Heavenly Father, we want to thank you, Lord, for allowing us to meet this evening. We ask you to please guide us in the decisions that will take place this evening. In your beloved name we
pray. Amen. >> I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.
>> As a note to members of the council, there are uh two pieces of correspondence from citizens that uh have been included in your materials for this evening. Uh if you don't have a copy of our agenda, they're available immediately
outside uh chambers. Uh also available to you through the website, the city's website of all the information council has received for tonight's meeting from the administration. We're up to number four on our agenda
tonight, hearing of citizens. In accordance with the open public meetings act in JSA 104-1 act the council opens every public meeting for comment on the public. However, in accordance with NJ NJSA 104-12
nothing in this act shall be construed to limit the discretion of a public body to permit prohibit or regulate the act of participation at any meeting. Therefore, please be advised that the council will not entertain any comments from persons who communicate obscene
material make statements which are considered bias intimidation in which a person intends to intimidate any individual or group because of race, color, religion, gender, handicap, sexual orientation or ethnicity or makes comments intending to harass or speak
any offensive language. Person who makes this statement will relinquish their allotted five minutes for public discussion. The council looks forward to comments from members of the public. We respectfully remind you that if you would like to speak before the council that you share with us your name and
also recognize that we ask that everyone speak for no more than five minutes. Is there anyone who'd like to address the council please sir? That would be you Carl. >> Thank you. Um I distributed a sheet of paper basically says what I said about
to say. Uh first I want to thank uh police chief um excuse me and his department. When I spoke here a few weeks ago the next morning I saw action. Um safety is one of the two major issues I want to talk about. Howard Avenue is a
broad street. When I first moved there 30 some years ago. There's a yellow line down the center of the street. It didn't go anywhere quite frankly. 21 didn't go anywhere. There wasn't a lot of traffic. I brought in some speed. I have a radar gun. I brought in some speed numbers
last trip. Cars are flying up and down the street. And worse yet, there's a crosswalk, allegedly a crosswalk, uh at Spring and Howard. School children, parents,
mothers with strollers all have to basically wait for cars rather than the other way around. It's dangerous. And uh I think we need to address that. Uh I have several um suggestions. The police cannot be there all the time. Uh
suggestions will include signage, rumble strips, electronic speed signs. I see those uh in many many communities uh sign that tells you how fast you're going and perhaps um suggest that you're
going too fast. And of course continued enforcement. But again, uh, Howard is a dangerous street. There are over 50 children living on the few blocks between Park and River Road. I maybe I
may have undercounted actually. It's It's just dangerous. I believe also that Spring and Howard should be a four-way stop sign. That's the first issue. I'm waiting to listen to comments. Uh,
the the second issue is noise. When I moved to to Howard and Corner Spring and Howard in 1995, 21 didn't go anywhere. It stopped somewhere in the middle of downtown Payic. When 21 was extended to reach 20
and 80, it became a major highway. And the new construction got noise barriers. The old construction only got a chainling fence, which means myself and my neighbors, we can't sit on our front porch unless we put on headphones.
We can't open our windows to let in some fresh air. Not a day like today, but it's just the mo the noise of traffic, motorcycles, everything else. And 21 is all day long. even worse during the
morning rush hour and you you live nearby, you know that uh the morning and evening rush hours and such. We need to get noise barriers. I spoke with uh the chief of staff of of Congressman Pal's office who was an old friend from back
when when Congressman P um Pascarella rest in peace was there. I suggested that it has to come from the bottom up. So, I I'd hope that the city could speak up to the county, to the state, and then to the federal government to get us
noise barriers for that old stretch of of 21 from route three up to where the new where the new well fairly new noise barriers are. That's it. >> Thank you, sir. Uh, just a quick question if I'm interesting. You said
you had met with or spoken with Chief Guzman. >> I'm sorry. You had mentioned that you had spoken to Chief Guzman, our police chief. >> I I saw him at the end of the the previous meeting and he was very helpful and there there
was a police car out there the next day and I saw the flash was going so must have given somebody a ticket for speeding. Um, coincidentally we both have degrees from Fairly Dickinson in and criminal justice. Uh I don't know
why if you need an 80-year-old rookie I'll volunteer as a plea but uh we spoke about it and uh he was very responsive uh and on previous occasions he put up the uh trailer with the speed thing but again that only is there when he's there or when the police officer is there.
There needs to be some permanent stuff in terms of signage and the other suggestions that I made. where Deputy Chief Jentiel, is this something that we can leave to your trusted good hands that you'll speak with uh please
chief and perhaps with Mr. Singer and get some further details? >> Yes, sir. >> That would be great. Obviously, Mr. Singer, this is >> um one of many many many priorities. Not to make it less than it is. It is extremely serious. It's an extremely
serious issue and we would like to deal with it just as seriously. Uh but obviously um some of these things are extraordinarily costly. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Anyone else like to address the council, please? Council President, before the person
addresses through the council president, I just want to inform you that we recently purchased these new signs that go on poles that actually serve the same purpose as those mobile um speed readers. We placed one on Hamilton and one by school number six. So these signs
go up on the actual light poles and as the cars drive by it tells you how fast you're going but also these red and blue lights up if you go beyond the speed limit. We've ordered some additional signs that we will be exploring putting in areas residential areas like these.
They do serve as a pretty effective deterrent as individuals um well most of us have been conditioned whenever we see red and blue lights go up to uh slow down but also the indication some people generally don't realize how fast they're going in these areas. So we did want to
share obviously through the council to the residents and those watching online that you will be seeing more of those go up as we ordered them through our purchasing. >> Thank you. Currently there's only one speed limit sign in each direction. one at the foot of River Road for cars going
westbound and one at park for cars going eastbound. So easy to overlook. Thank you. >> Very concerned. Anyone else uh would like to address the council? >> Good evening, council president.
There's an ordinance on the agenda for tonight. >> I'm sorry, your name, please, sir. >> My name is Ysef Wolf. >> Thank you. There's an ordinance on the agenda for second and final reading for our pilot program at the last council meeting. I think was
for a first reading and was pushed off. So I just want to know if it was not passed at the past last meeting. Is it due for a final reading or a first reading? >> I'm sorry. What which ordinance you referring to >> for the pilot for Spear Village?
Do you know what ordinance number that is off hand? >> Ordinance number two number 3252926 >> which which >> that's what I wanted to hear. So Mr. Wolf it was
presented for first reading. It is now up tonight for second and final reading. >> Okay. So it's not like you have to approve it. It's just a reading. No, it's if it is if it receives a positive vote um it takes effect. >> Did it get a positive vote at the last
meeting >> for release to for second reading? Yes, it did. >> Okay. >> Ordinances for first reading are usually at the end of our agenda whereas ordinances for second and final reading are at the beginning of our agenda. >> Okay. Thank you. I want to thank the
council members at the last meeting. I was not here, but I want to thank them for um questioning some of the items that were presented, including the pilot program. I think it's a very intense and complex agreement for a very complex
project. Mr. Fernandez, the business administrator, had mentioned that there is a council member, a former council member on the board on the planning board whose pet peeve, quote unquote, is parking.
I myself was present on Zoom at the two planning board meetings about two properties on Broadway that Mr. Fernandez was referencing. At the first meeting, Mr. Schwarz asked the
presenter, the planner, the ar the engineer, the architect. He asked, "Why if this is a brand new project and you're knocking down two houses, why do you need a variance for parking? Why can't you build it from scratch with
ample parking?" And he was actually quite animated about it. and they pulled back from requesting vote and they presented it again two weeks later. At the next meeting, they added not as Mr.
Fernandez said, three parking spots, they added two compact parking spots. So, this 22 unit project with 3,500 square ft of commercial space and four storefrs in
the middle of a block, not on a corner, received approval because they added two compact parking spots and nobody asked any questions. 22 apartments, 3500 square feet on the second floor for
offices that do not need parking and four storefronts that do not need parking. Received approval with no push back because instead of asking for a vote, they pushed off two weeks and replaced two compact parking spots in the back of a
uh a driveway that has an egress and a deed restriction with a neighbor. This was an 11,000 square f foot property. And I'm asking, does the council really realize that the planning board are very nice people, but they seriously seem
disenfranchised and disinterested in the basic questions? Thank you, >> Mr. the meeting that took place. Yes. And they the board members were adamant that they wanted more parking space. They
made the developer come back. They brought in additional parking spaces to the satisfaction of the board members and that's why they're there. >> And it received the board's approval after >> it did. After they came back, it wasn't immediate. They made them revise the plans, bring in more parking, and it was
to their satisfaction. >> So, it's not as if this was unressed. >> Correct. Good. That's just what I wanted to hear. Is there anyone else who would like to address the council, please? >> Do I have any more time? >> He had he had one minute left before.
>> We'll take you We'll take you for the minute. >> Thank you. The board still had to give a variance for parking. They had appro They approached with 17 parking spots. They need a minimum of of more than 21, but because they chose to do four EV parking spots, they reduced the
requirement to 21 and they asked for variance for four and they came back and they added two compact parking spots. This project had commercial space. A commercial space by city ordinance does not require parking.
It had office space. City ordinance does not need parking. So they clump together a tremendous amount of usage into 11,000 foot lot. Additionally, Mr. Fernandez mentioned that properties over 10 units need garbage to own
private garbage collection. Other projects required it. This project, the board did not require any garbage, private garbage collection. They let them off the hook and the city will be paying for the garbage collection from this 22 unit 4 storefront 3500t
commercial space. that that is your five minutes sir. Um commissions are very interesting in in local government and in non-local government as well for that matter and that is power and resolve is given from
a an elected body to an appointed body. That appointed body is appointed for a reason in the planning board's case to reflect the direction and uh interests of the administration and specifically of the mayor. Whereas in another board, for example, the zoning board does just
the same representing the council. In all cases, boards are given tremendous latitudes in doing what they do, representing the people as they do. Um these are all people who have gone through various courses uh giving them
qualification at least by the state's resolve. Um that what they're doing is correct most importantly legal. In addition, each one of these boards has an attorney that stay with it throughout to ensure that the board protects itself, the city and
the appointing agency. Um whereas I can well understand your concern about this particular case. um and have no doubt that there's more to learn about this in any other case for that matter. But the board has its right
and the city is obliged to follow that unless there is something so egregious. I cannot find something so egregious in this uh position. It seems to me the vote was taken a majority of the planning board members voted in favor of
it. uh whether for good or for bad, it is within their purview, within their right and it would be wrong to in any way jeopardize that right and that responsibility both to them as well as to their appointing agents. Um I hear what you had to say. Uh I appreciate it
very much. During discussion of the ordinance, you are certainly allowed as anyone else's to raise additional points if you would like. That is up to you. That is at your pleasure. Uh but as far as this council goes uh there's nothing
which appears to be so egregious as to suggest anything but moving forward. Is there anyone else like to adjust the council? Seeing no hands to close the public portion. >> Second. There's a motion. There's a second to close public portion.
>> Councilman Monk. >> Yes. >> Councilman Love. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Melo. >> Yes. Councilman Mayor. >> Yes. >> Councilman Garcia. >> Yes. Counciloman Golz. >> Yes. >> And Council President Shear. >> Yes. Thank you. We're up to numer five on our agenda. Ordinance for second and
final reading. Hearing is required. Number one, proposed ordinance number 2523-26. An ordinance amending the east side redevelopment plan for property identified on the official tax map of the city of Payic is block 1036, lots 1
and 8 corresponding to one market street in the city of Payic. introduced, excuse me, at the November 14 at the April 14th, 2026 council meeting. Is there a motion, please, to open public hearing? >> Move it. >> Second. >> Roll call, please. >> Councilman Monk,
>> yes. >> Councilman Love. >> Councilwoman Melo, >> yes. >> Councilman Mayor, >> yes. >> Councilman Garcia, >> yes. >> Counciloman Colz, >> yes. >> Council President Shar, >> yes. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. At this time, the council will be deliberating proposed ordinance number
2523-26. Is there anyone who would like to address the council on this matter and this matter only? >> Thank you, Council President. I would like to ask in the applications for these
in the application for these redevelopment plans, it seems that the city has basic requirements. For example, you need to have a >> Mr. Rule, I'm going to hold you to the ordinance only. >> Does the city have any requirements
attached to redevelopment in town? >> A moment, please. >> I seem to call. >> I need you to wait a moment, please. Mr. Wolf, we were not being encouraging on your time. >> Once again, it was the city clerk's
fault, Mr. Wolf. >> Thank you. >> Does the city have any requirements attached to a development of PAG like this? For example, I remember seeing somewhere that the city requires attendance lounge in the buildings,
storage in the buildings. The reason why I'm asking is because I don't see by the planning board meetings any um variances being given. >> I'm going to interrupt you and not pleasantly so. I need you to speak to the ordinance not to other buildings or
other fun. >> Does the city have any requirements attached to these development plans that require certain amenities and space and allocations for the tenants? Once again, please sir, I'm sorry.
>> Does the city have any requirements that redevelopers must include in their buildings that are entitled that are under approval for redevelopment? >> I'll take that issue on this level, not
on a higher level. And that is specifically Mr. Fernandez on the question regarding this ordinance. >> Yes, it does. >> Does a developer need a variance if they
do not provide those requirements in the building? Yes. If there's any deviation from the plan that is of a bulk standard, it could be granted by the planning board. If it is a use standard like uh under
the municipal land use law uh 40 5570-d123456 then it has to come back to this council. So the D variance is use variance. D2 is expansion and non-conforming use. D3 is conditional use. D4 is floor area ratio.
D5 is density. And D6 is height. If they exceed any of those to the point that it triggers one of those six, it has to come back to this board, this council for an amendment of the plan, the planning board has no authority to grant that waiver. But if it's the minimous waiverss like setbacks or parking
standards or um open space standards, they're allowed to evaluate and u decide if to their satisfaction the reply from the applicant is sufficient. Do they need approval? Do they need a
vote if they don't want to uh give tenant lounges and storage? Do they need a variance for that? Let me check what the the code says on that. But for example, it it says that you have to have at least 10,000 square feet of community space for the for the
the individuals. Let's see. Um and the reason I have to is because some have it. Some of them have it, some do not. >> 19 >> uh 40 units or larger should incorporate approximately 10,000 square feet. have a wellness center, business center, concier center, something of that. Um,
and it should be for the residents only. So, I mean, the bedrooms themselves have to have their own closet space for them to be considered bedrooms. Uh, there's a whole section on trash and recycling enclosures.
I believe that's uh the business administrator's analysis. Mr. Wolf, >> if a project did not get does not provide this, does it need the the planning board to vote on a variance or it can get relief
before the planning board's vote? So once this passes, it becomes law and they can grant waiverss specifically to what's on this piece of paper unless it triggers one of the devariances that we discussed before. So yes, they would need to get relief
from either the council or from the planning board depending on the type of relief they need. So the answer is yes. They need to go to either this board or the planning board to get relief. >> Excuse me. Mr. Is that effectively what they're doing? >> Say that again.
>> Is that effectively what they're doing tonight? >> No, this is this is the ordinance that sets that guideline that they have to comply with. So what happens after this is the applicant has to prepare a site plan that goes to the planning board.
And because this is a redevelopment, it has to be consistent with this redevelopment plan. If it's inconsistent, it it can extensively require an amendment from this plan which comes to this governing body with the exception of design standards, you
know, like the parking size. So they they're well within their rights to have compact cars. If if if to the board's satisfaction, the applicants professionals, you know, uh bring a presentation that satisfies that and within the law, the the boards, and
again, this goes for either board, but in this case, it's specifically for a planning board, um can impose conditions to alleviate the any impact of a variance request. So there are conditions that can be
placed above and beyond this as long as they're reasonable uh to amilarate any negative impact of that possible waiver >> storage space requirement number 14. Would that need a vote from the planning
board for variance or is that not under a variance? >> Anything in this plan requires review and approval from the planning board. Everything. So any number you see on the redevelopment plan requires review and approval from the planning board. Unless
it exceeds the authority of the planning board, which requires a devariance, then it has to come back to the city council for an amendment of the plan. The planning board doesn't have authority to grant those waiverss. >> Okay. Thank you. I just want to let the
the city council know that there are redevelopment plans such as this that are asking for relief from major parts of the redevelopment plan and they are receiving it. Thank you. >> Anyone else to address the council,
please? >> There's a motion. There's a second to close public hearing. I'll hear from uh Councilman Mayor first. Council, your light is on. >> Thank you, Council President. >> This project's pretty big.
>> What's it? >> It's over six acres. It's a It's a huge site. >> The 50% workforce units challic house allocated to households only 60 to 75% of AMA really speaks to me. It's pretty cool. Uh I just have a few questions on
I see a lot about the history of the census and what percentages renter occupied housing units get for parking. Now is there any do we know what mix of apartment sizes or apartment unit sizes are going to be in this property? >> Uh no because this is the guide. So
until they submit a plan it's only a concept and an idea. But what I can tell you is that um due to the changes in the state of New Jerseyy's fair housing program um specifically the uniform housing affordability controls uh hack
we've put minimum which I'm very excited for minimum unit sizes within it. So because that passed we're allowed to do that now. So there will be no more of those undersized, you know, tiny little apartments for
affordable individuals that are much smaller than the rest of the building. So we're very excited about that. This is one of the first redevelopment plans that we were able to add it because the law just passed uh you know maybe six months ago or so. >> So you led me to one of my next
questions. I'll skip to it. These apartment sites are minimum set by the state or these are >> Yeah. So, so we got we we yes it's in the state uniform housing affordability controls for affordable housing. So those are the minimum standards.
>> Is there any correlation in in the census between the apartment size not the the amount of bedrooms or to the parking or there's no such correlation? >> There is no such correlation. the census doesn't correlate that the the the census what it does is it so it's
impossible for them to correlate exact unit square footage. So it's it's approximates and averages but they tell you for example what a census tract depending on the type of housing unit what the parking uh ownership is of
those units. So that's what you see those are the numbers you see before you >> the on page four >> um those I need to just shut it down. Let me go back to page four. Yeah. So, at the bottom there, that's what you see. So, what the census does,
it breaks it down if you're renting it, right? Um, if you're renting, if you're a renter, because that's what these units are. They would be rental units. So, this is a general census, not based on the to say apartment size. This is a general state. It's general. Well, no, it's to
our census tract. So, basically, this number you see here is for the census tract that this specific property applies to. So, no, this is not general. This is what the census when they did the sentence in Pake. This is what this
census tracked came out with based on their review. So based on that, we have a no vehicle available, no vehicle available on 375 for 29.3% of the the units. Um there's other things taken into
consideration on the apartments for for size which isn't included. We have the amount of units, but so these are all units. So they took into account the average of all units and that census tracked. And this is
what the census came out with based on >> that's assumption that we're replacing what we have with what we have. >> That's not assumption that >> no there's no assumption of replacement at all. This is just telling you this is what we have right. So in that area the
car ownership right of uh one vehicle or no vehicle is over what is that uh 60 78 79%. So 79% of all these units, right, are one car or less. So when you're
coming up with a parking standard, you need to use some data, right? So we use the data um that we have that's provided by the census plus data of actual units that have been built in the area. And we take into account uh buses, busing, and
mass transit. And I could tell you that in front of this building specifically, it's one of which I found very interesting when I spoke to New Jersey Trans. It's one of the busiest bus stops that they have in their system uh usage wise. >> Okay. Um
so this is just to get a gauge so you understand kind of where the standards came in, but I can also tell you that the planning board um doesn't like and this council for example also doesn't like to see for two bedrooms to be less than one and a half. So that's why it's
at one and a half irrespective of what the census comes up with. >> Which brings me to my next question. >> See, I I'm I'm with you. >> If you have 100 studios or one bedrooms, you need to have seven, what is it? You have 100 100
onebedrooms and 100 two bedrooms, you end up with a wash. You end up with 225 parking spots based on the one the 75 and the 1.5. >> Okay. you go down to 50 two uh one bed uh two bedrooms and 100 one bedrooms,
you're now at uh I think it's a wash. So 150 to 150. You go to 25 bedrooms and you have 100 onebedrooms, you're now below the minimum of the minimum of one parking spot per unit and
you can get away with just one parking spot per unit. So there's really no difference between building 100 one-bedroom units, 50 two-bedroom units versus 100 one-bedroom units, and 25 two-bedroom
units, it's the same. They're going to end up with the same amount of parking based on the requirement. But I can also tell you if you look at our minimum requirements, the maximum studio onebedroom mix is 20%. >> Okay? >> Because we don't want we have if you
The city of PI has a larger family size no matter what census tract than the national average which means we need family housing not just single and studio apartments. Hence why we have a minimum you there's a maximum
requirement of one one in bedrooms and studios and then there's no limit on two bedrooms and then there's a limit on three to fours because of the parking. So we everything everything kind of interplays with each other to make sure there's a balance
within the plan. So the so just to repeat what you're saying the other way 80% of this is at a minimum of 1.5 park units >> per one per 1.5 park >> or two depending on the type of >> but at a minimum 1.5 >> okay and and a last question
the filling up the space is there any requirement at any point for them to fill up the foot they're getting redeveloped for or they can hold on for something later and say they come back to us with additional units for additional variances for additional important. So
an applicant can always request, right? So within the law, you're allowed you're allowed to request. So an applicant can request changes, amendments to be added into a plan.
That's normal. The question is what consideration do you give each one of those requests? And it's got and also within the law, it's on a case-byase basis. So not every project is the same and not every project should be
evaluated the same way. You can't paint land use with a broad brush as much as sometimes we'd like to. Okay. So for this specific ordinance, would it be us, the council? Would it be us, the council, or would it be the planning board that sees the final layout for this project, whatever they come back
with, and see whether they're filled up the entire redevelopment or there was left some for later? That would be the planning board when the plan is prepared, right? So, no one sees it until the site plan is prepared. What this does is it allows a
guide for that site plan to be prepared. So they prepare it however they see fit as a developer and then they bring it to the planning board and then the planning board evaluates it on its own merit off of this plan. Okay. So hypothetically
>> hypotheticals but all right let's we'll work on them. >> Hypothetically they come in with uh apartment sizes on the site plan that are 10% bigger >> yes >> than these apartments. It's presented to the planning board. >> Everything is approved. They go to construction of the city. Now the apartments are 10% smaller, reserving
space for some other development later on. So it so it depends. It depends on the plan. So I kind of know what you're getting at because I'm familiar with the comparisons. This plan specifically, that's why I'm
so happy that the state passed the regulation specifically has minimum bedroom sizes. That is a requirement of this plan. If anyone comes in with a plan to construction that is less than
the plan requirements, it needs a a waiver. It needs a variance. It has to come back to the planning board. And if they say they don't like it and they say, "Well, I don't want to be have this 550 unit 550
square foot studio. I want it to be 400." Right? then that requires an amendment to this plan which the planning board can't do and this board would then have to this governing body would then have to say yes we're going to let the 400 go. Does that make sense?
>> Yeah, but let me rephrase the question or let me try. They come in with higher numbers than the minimums. They come in 20% higher on the minimums. These apartments are huge on the plan. >> They're approved for this. They end up building that amount of units but with
the minimum amounts when they submit to construction. So they have 20% left over because they saved it for a later date. So then they're in jeopardy of not getting anything approved in the future. That's what happens, right? Because the
plan is also so there's many things that interplay. So for example, this maximizes the number of units, right? So if they exceed that number of units, that requires an amendment from the governing body, right? And then the question becomes we passed the
redevelopment plan right the redevelopment plan was conducted and completed right is there still a need for redevelopment right because under the local housing redevelopment law right once the
development is completed and there's changes that want to be to that completed project then there has to be a termination if you're still going to use the redevelopment local housing redevelopment law or are you going to remove it from the local housing
redevelopment law then requiring that applicant to go to uh the planning or zoning board depending on what the relief is requested to get relief but it would be from the underlying zoning ordinance no longer from the redevelopment. So, this is a complex question you're asking. There's multiple
layers. Um, but that is typically what would happen if if the council, let's say they did that, right? This applicant came in, they did it, they we have 4 and90 units and they built them very small and half of the building is
vacant, right? And now they say, well, you know what? I got this half a vacant building. I want to go back and I want to build it. So they would have to come back here because remember yes here to this and say I need another 100 units because I
didn't build half of it. Then the question is why the hell didn't you build half of it right? Like that you're a developer. You got approved for these 400 units. That's what the governing body. The planning board because remember this went to the planning board
for consistency with the master plan. Right? this is and then the they have to submit a site plan also to the planning board. So what happens is um they went through a whole process and now they want to do the whole process again. So
the reason is is there a need because when you read the local housing redevelopment law there has to be a need. So this excuse me for a moment isn't there a need inherent in this issue overall throughout the
state there is but remember what happened and butressed by the governor's numerous statements in terms of more housing must be built right so then that would be a consideration that the governing body would have to attain so for example if a project is coming in
that has no affordable housing and now the project is proposing affordable housing. That is something to consider based on what you just said, council president, right? Because the state is looking for housing specifically for families that
fall within a certain income level. So that is a consideration that you would give. So for example, this one has not only affordable housing, has workforce. This plan has all the bells and whistles and it also u reflects the state's new
approach because we specifically I went in there and I specifically took out sections of the uniform housing affordability controls statute of the state to include as part of this plan which we didn't have the chance to do uh again and I think we're all clear what the mayor's directive has been and I
don't want to put words in your mouth mayor but we're talking about the gap of those working residents that still can't afford the market rate but make too much for the affordable. That's how you got workforce housing. Then those that need it uh for affordable housing all mixed
with market rate incomes uh because that is not just within the state of New Jersey but statewide the approach I mean uh nationwide the approach for development and integrating uses because the old affordable housing complexes of the 40s and 50s clearly that
concentration didn't work. So the uh diversity of of uh uses but more directly to your point council president if this was already done takes a whole different life right once once they have availed themselves of the local housing
redevelopment law and they've completed the project then the question is well is there a need for this amendment right is you know is the project completed Is there a need? What is the difference
between what was presented that met all the guidelines and now what they're proposing now? So that's why to your point, Council President, if they're looking to add affordable housing, if they're looking to add workforce housing, things that make a significant
difference showing there's still a need, then that's something to consider. If it's just I'm coming in with, you know, an additional market rate units, then what's what's the reason? what's the rationale for the amendment, right? That's from a planning perspective. But
again, I'm giving you general notes. Um because every project is a little different and you got to evaluate them differently. You may look at this and say, you know what, I you know, I wish we would have done this that or the other thing and then you make the amendment or something changes in the state or you know.
>> Thank you. Okay, >> Mr. industry if I can ask a question and it's been troubling me for over a year. Um when we speak about low moderate and workforce those are different levels
right and it's based upon what the federal mean average is. Yeah. So it's based on a region. So they put uh Pake in a region with like Bergen County and Sussex is in the region to
balance out a minimum rental payment and a income limit. Okay. To to set a baseline of what those limits are so that when somebody comes we know what number to look for so that we can establish
whether they're moderate, low or workforce. So how does one make sure that there is a blend? Isn't the purpose is that there be a blend? >> Yeah. So there's certain requirements um depending on So we because we're a
HUD entitlement city, our requirements, we follow HUD requirements because that's where our funding sources come from. So we we put that into the plans which requires after a certain number of units that a percentage be moderate, a
percentage be low and very low. There's like a a range that they have. So if you have, let's say, 13 units, a portion of those 13 units have to hit, you know, one of those income limits. So, the criteria for renting one of these
apartments has to do with your income um versus the federal standards. Correct. And then your your um income to uh expense ratio. So affordable housing,
the definition of affordable housing is 80% of median income or below but a maximum household expense of 30 to 35%. Okay, this is this is what I wanted to understand better. Yes. So how does how
does that work? Essentially on a practical basis, I go to rent an apartment with my wife and family. Um I make too much. I don't qualify. I make too little. I don't qualify. Is that
correct? >> Um, yes. Depending on the unit, right? So there that's why that's why the regulations require a range of incomes. >> Does it dictate to us how many of each?
>> It dictate. So remember this dictates minimums. You can always exceed the minimums. If you say that you know really in the city of Pay the range we have more of a greater need at 40 30 to
40% of AMI right then you can say that X% of these affordable units have to be you know 30 40% of AMI which exceeds the federal minimum. I've always been told that Pose is
unfairly placed um in this analysis because income levels in Bergen which were a part of that group as you would say um are just that much higher than they are in PAC and thus hurting Payic
residents. Would you agree with that? I don't know if I'd say that because I look at census tracks specifically to track that down and when we do our numbers we look at those census tracks. Um so yes there is a skew but there's a
skew from the higher income limits within one municipality and one section of that municipality to another. So that is why they also threw in Sussex. Right? So when you when you look at well how did Sussex get into the Bake Bergen
region right that is to balance the income levels because Sussex sections of Sussex are way lower right so it tries to create a balance so the regional approach is trying to create a balance so it's so that the moderate income is
not too low and the low income isn't too high I guess is the best way to do it. Uh but yes, so if you're looking just at Bergen County, it's going to skew it. But when you look at it as a region, it balances itself out. >> And there are rules and regulations in
terms of um same-sex children um receiving their own bedrooms that you can >> That's correct. That's that's under the um multiple dwelling and uh tenant uh
rights. So, if I have a two if I have a two bedrooms, I mean, can my wife and I sleep on the couch in the living room as as long as each of the the two boys and two girls that I have have their own bedrooms? So, now you're getting into like
construction code and what's permissible as a habitable space, right? So, there are certain locations that are uninhabitable in an apartment. So you can't sleep in the bathroom, you can't sleep in the kitchen, right? But a
living room is a habitable space. Now that being said, in the code, a bedroom, you can't cross one bedroom to get to another bedroom and say you got two bedrooms. That's only one bedroom,
right? So that could kind of hinder that scenario, right? But it's hard because you got to see a layout of the unit and and all of that. So no. And then there's on top of that there's overcrowding requirements.
So there's a certain number of individuals that can live in an apartment based on their square footage. So that can exceed that which then would require a bigger unit. So there's multiple there I mean there's a whole slew of regulations from different
>> as well as relationships and it be familiar relationship amongst all the people living in the apartments as well. >> Yes. So I mean I started my career doing overcrowding and illegal housing. So I'm very familiar. That's why I know the
code the way I know the code. >> Councilman Mark, is that your line? >> Yes. Thank you. for council president just to address what you were harping on regarding the AMIs. It's the whole thing is really skewed
especially when you bring in so many different counties. I mean what should be happen is that every zip code should really have its own AMIs because what happens is many times you could have the 70 80% of AMI could actually be your market rent. you know,
is let's say you want to charge $3,000 for an apartment, right? Because you the AMI might be very high in the area. So, your 80% might be exactly $3,000. So when you offer
affordable housing, it's it's from a developer's perspective, he's not really giving up anything because his market rents fit into that 80% box to begin with.
So, so for a developer where the AMI is relatively high, it works, you know, on paper looks very nice, you know, 75% 80% of EMI and, you know, it definitely helps people if they could afford it, right? But it's good for a developer
because he's not really giving up anything with by by saying, I'll give 50% of my units at 75, 80% of AMI, whatever it is, you know. So again, I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but it it actually works many times in
favor of a developer that makes the deal work. He's not really discounting his rents at all by doing affordable housing. >> And I wonder why they fight I wonder why they fight tooth and nail not to do it then, right? Because they come in here fighting tooth and nail that they don't want to build any affordable housing or
let's put them all in the same building. So, I've been doing this for quite some time and uh I can tell you that those those are rare instances depending on the market. One of the main reasons that you see this regional is because
there's a regional need and it's to try to get more affordable housing quite frankly in more affluent counties. That is why they're doing it. So the one of the the things that happens with affordable housing in this state is that
we put out numbers for municipalities. So we're not one of those because we we meet our fair share of affordable housing. So we want to expand it to our sister cities. So what happens is they're so focused on a number and meeting a number that they don't
understand that this is an average of a regional need. so that Pik doesn't get all of them, right? So that Patterson doesn't get all of them. so that other municipalities have to provide their fair share of affordable housing in the
city of Pake which we made very clear right mayors we want to provide for our residents to not displace them but also keep the individuals that may uh have higher education that may get a better
house better u finances to stay here right and then diversify the incomes within units to make them uh not only more affordable but more attractive and change really
the economy of the area, right? So that concentration of either side is no good. Okay, that's clear because what happens is if you go too low then the economy tanks and you're providing services hand over fist. If it's too high, they are
then so restrictive, they let no one else that doesn't look exactly like them in their section. Right? So that is the the the two extremes. And what we've always talked about, right, mayor, has been balance. We want to provide balance.
um you know as best we can because like you're saying Councilman Monk there's also the market there is the economy there's inflation there's the cost of construction right which then skews all of that and what we're trying to do here
with all the ordinances that the mayor has proposed and the council has passed is to provide a level of protection for those individuals but also not deter um individuals from investing within the municipality and as we've said throughout all of what do we call the
the stabilization of the market in Vay it's to provide that balance >> so I I understand that they come in no one wants they fight in terms of far a little bit louder >> I'm sorry the reason why they fight the
affordable piece is because no one wants a property we have restrictions where in case the market does start flying you don't want to be restricted for for a refinance purpose or for a sale, right? You want institutional buyer to come pick up 600 units, right? Without you restrictions, it's only going to hurt
you. >> Yeah. So, if I could just elaborate for the public and for the council members that may not know. So what happens is because this is a requirement there has to be a deed restriction that goes with the land that these units for at least
20 years in the city of Pake has to be have to remain affordable and the increases can only be guided by those federal increases on income and rental market. So that's that's what we're
talking about when we're we're having a discussion on refinancing and having restrictions on it because it is a deed restriction so that if the market does blow up, right, which we wanted to, we don't displace >> individuals that are living in these
apartments. So that's why those restrictions exist. of an ordinance. >> Why? Like I understand like you know you have a development of 20 30 50 units. Um and I understand that the this plan requires
50 dwellings or more to have a traffic study, a drainage study, uh sanitary sewer system. Why not a a school impact of what it will do on the school? Are you talking you're not talking you're talking about not talking about 50 units? You're talking about 600. How
many units? 400. >> Uh yeah, it depends. It's a maximum here, but >> they can come in below that. We don't know what the number is. They can't go above it. >> 490. >> Yeah. So >> why isn't that such a large project
something of concern? Uh so what happens is it's the reason is because there's already a study that everybody uses. It came from out of ruckers and that's any professional that comes before the board that they talk about school children is going to refer to that study and they
base it on an average and estimate that Ruckers came out with um you know several years back and that's been the the norm for professionals. So you're really requesting it is only like putting it in here. it's only going to get you the regurgitation of that study.
>> So where is I mean where is >> so usually it's a question that's asked when they're at the planning board and then their professionals have to answer it. It's no different than you know having them justify their parking requirements. >> Should that be part of the impact study then especially the data is available
impact study? >> It could be. It could be. It's just not our code our code has never required that. So we don't put it in there. This would be the first time. I mean, if you wanted it, I don't think it's a major change to ask add that as as you know, a a child impact study to this
specifically, but I can tell you that in units that are 50 or greater, that's a conversation that's had and the planning board can, you know, discuss those findings with those individuals. But does the why if it's not part of the plan, it's not a required impact study
as traffic, drainage, and sewer is >> why would the planning board even have to take it into account? Um they they can or they cannot. So what happens is ch the reason that it's typically not. So let's start with that is because
that's a moving target, right? It's a moving target. You don't know how many children are actually going to be there or not, right? You can have estimates based on what the census data is based
on family size. Uh you can look at, you know, you can make estimates based on the unit mix. How many are one bedrooms? How many are two bedrooms? How many are three bedrooms? But as an example, so I could tell you that the rule of thumb is if it's three or four,
guaranteed is guaranteed. If it's studios in one bedrooms, not really, unless they're overcrowding the apartment. And then your one and twos, I mean your two specifically, your two bedrooms, the majority maybe, but not all of them because you may have a
couple that's a professional that hasn't started their life yet that wants to have children. So, you know, but is that an ex I'm telling you there's a study out there and these are conversations that planning boards are having. We've just never put it in a plan. In all fairness, parking is a
moving target, too. >> Yeah. But, uh um parking, right, is it is a moving target, but it's not it's not like children are a moving target because it could be one child, two child. you don't know the size of the of
the family size. So, similarly to parking, right? And remember, we're not asking for a parking study. We're asking for a traffic study on the parking, right? We're using our best guess based on census data on what
the number of units and historically what the appetite for any of the boards have been. So, like I said, originally in certain areas of town that have a lot of mass transit, it used to be two bedrooms, one to one when we first started doing that. There is no longer
an appetite for the one to one. It has to be one and a half. So, then those changes were made based on, you know, what we've seen, right? So, um I would I would say that parking is less of a moving target than than the number of
children in the in the classroom because there's so many and for example, how many of them go to public schools? How many of them go to private schools, right? Like there's a whole how many of them are all in kindergarten? How many? So there's many many more layers than if I own one car or two cars, right? So
because one of the issues that you look at when you're looking at this is impact on the school system, right? Why do you want to know how many kids people have, right? The reason is for the impact, let's say, on the school system. Well, then the idea is, well, how many of them are going to use the school system? How many of them are actually going to be in
the same grade? Um, thank you. And then the the biggest thing that is evaluated is well, what about enrollment, right? In school enrollment. And the mayor was kind enough to remind me that our enrollment in the city of Pake has gone
down by over 4,000 students in our local public school system. Right? So in actuality, when things like that happen, you actually want to promote having more children because you don't want to close doors and you don't want to fire
teachers and staff. That happens, right? Um, so those are all considerations that one takes into place when they're evaluating that. But those are questions that are asked by by board members and that's why typically you don't have it in this like a sewer system. The impact
the impact of the sewer system, right? Um, D and their storm water regulations literally has gallonage per unit per day peak hours. It's given to us. You could do the math, right? And you know if the
impact requires the board, for example, to say, well, you need to change this linear footage in front of your building as a new sewer section because of the impact on it. And that's a condition they can place to alleviate that
requirement. Right? Traffic. It's a traffic study, there's very specific calculations. How many trips per hour at what time come out of a building per unit? It's already there. Just do the math. Um engineers make a lot of money
doing that, right? So then the question becomes, is that too much for the street to handle or is there a condition that could be placed? For example, the planning board, I know for many, many times I'm looking at Councilwoman Colz, has required speed bumps coming out of
driveways from buildings to slow down the traffic onto the roadway or requiring flashing lights or stop signs or requiring street traffic lights in intersections that are affected by that property. Right? But that's all
um there's actual numbers and formulas that are used for that. >> Thank you. Thank you. Um under the general administrative provisions, it states >> what's what can you just tell me the page in second?
>> Page eight. The planning board may grant exceptions or waiverss from design standards from the requirements for the site plan or subdivision approval as may be reasonable and within the general purpose and intent of the provisions for site plan review or subdivision approval
within this plan. I'm going to skip a a few sentences here. Um, no deviations may be granted under the terms of this section unless such deviations can be granted without resulting in substantial
detriment to the public good and will not substantially impair the intent and purpose of the redevelopment plan. >> Yes. >> Who decides what's sub substantial and what's not substantial? the board members that are
entrusted with making that waiver, that decision. This is this is directly from the municipal land. >> I was trying to just as a follow from a meeting last meeting. Um, in other words,
in other words, if if a plan calls for 600 parking spots >> and a board decides, well, we cut that in half. It's not such a substantial um change, you know,
that the board could decide, you know, any you're saying any change the board makes is considered a change. That's a deviation. That's that's not substantial. that's does not substantially impact or the intent of the >> so that's a generalization of the
statement and it's it's general on purpose because they want to give flexibility to the boards to make decisions right and that's any board this language is in every code and it's in the state of New Jersey um so there are proofs that are required on the
record through the municipal land use law to prove if there's substantial detriment or not and that comes by the presentation of the professionals of the applicant to prove that. If they prove that to the satisfaction of the board,
then they can get granted the waiver. Now, there's also an appeal process. There's 45 days after the action of any board that you can appeal their determination.
You know, I hate to say it, but I've seen cases where governing bodies have sued their zoning boards and their planning boards, right, for, you know, u some of their actions, right? Someone
won, some laws, you know, but there's the law is set up that way for that purpose. >> Thank you. I was just curious what what that language meant. Um, >> yeah. So, this is there's a specific legal meaning for it that has to be
presented by the applicant to show that. So, like when I do presentations for applicants, well, not that I haven't done one in a million years, but I have to compare the project to the plan, to the master plan, to the code, to the municipal land use law, the purposes of
the municipal land use law. And those are how you establish substantial uh consistency and no, you know, limited impairment of the intent and purpose of the redevelopment plan. Okay. There's
under this plan it's it calls for at least 50% of the units to um basically a few different provisions. There's the 20% >> which we have of required
of affordable units right 70% 80% below and 20% workforce which is 60 to 120% of AMI and then addition this says no less than 50% of the workforce units
shall be allocated to households earning 60 to 75% %. >> Yes. >> What does that mean? >> So workforce housing as defined is 60% to 120%. So remember your comment that
well, you know, to me as a developer, it's market rate, right? So when you're hitting the 120% of AMI, you're much closer to market, right? So what this says is you can't avail yourself of the
workforce housing requirement by making them all 100. >> Half of them have to be between the 60 and 75. >> You know, just to bring you back to some conversations that the mayor's had in this specific council about meeting that gap of those individuals that are
hardworking families >> that get left out. And we wanted to make sure that with such a large project, right, we were able to cross all the tees and dot all the eyes of every this is a culmination of all those regulations that the mayor has proposed
and this council has voted on in one plan. Yeah. So I I just for clarity so you have the affordable units which is 80% below AMI. Mhm. >> So, let's say AMI, just for round the
numbers, AMI is $100,000. Okay. AMI. >> Do you want the exact numbers? I mean, I could look it up, but I just want to get just let's say AMI is $100,000. Okay. So, 80% affordable means they have to be earning $80,000 or less. >> Yes. Depends on family size, but I'm
following you. >> Okay. >> I like the easy math. >> Okay. % of the workforce house units is 60 to 120% of AMI. >> Yes. >> So 120% of AMI which mean is someone that's making $120,000. >> Yes.
>> So how is that what what defines that workforce? If someone's making $120,000, what defines workforce that he qualifies for these 20 workforce units? >> The AMI. >> He's he's making over AMI.
>> Right. So it goes back to your point about the region and the you know area and the different counties and the whole thing right so >> I'm sorry it's just a bit councilman you said he is making refer to an individual
but of course could be they >> yeah it could be combine >> so the AMI is based on family size as well right so if you're a family of four in the city of Payic then you're looking at the 95,000 AMI,
but that's a family of four. >> Where I'm going with this is if we're looking to make housing affordable >> and that 70 units or 20 to 15% whatever it is by allowing some of the units to go over the over 100%.
That's not really someone that needs financial help and the family. So, if you look at a couple, let's say you have um husband and a wife and three children, two children, 120 isn't the same as the individual professional
making 120 >> which wouldn't qualify. They would be making too much. They would be making too much money in numbers, right? So, a one single person under AMI in the city of Pay, right? 120,000 for a single person under the
workforce would be making too much money. How does one ensure that there is economic diversity? >> By this exact to answer your question, what we're doing right now, the discussions we're currently having percentages of affordable housing that
ranges anywhere from 30% of AMI to 80% and workforce housing that ranges from 60% to 120% of AMI. >> So, everyone who applies for an apartment needs to there needs to be diversity of of those incomes. You can't have five people earning
the lowest amount and one person the most, >> right? And there has to be that flexibility as well because one thing we all know is that banks currently are very fickle and >> they're not fickle at all. >> No, they have they don't want to loan
anything to anybody unless it's a million dollar like unless they know they're getting prepaid paid back. So what happens is you have to have that flexibility to make sure it's fundable. So one of the worst things and I could tell you from experience that has even happened in Pacific is there are
programs where the state requirement to meet the the grant doesn't match up with the underwriting of the bank and we've had nightmares of reconciling the underwriting of the bank with the grant money that they were given us from these
different agencies. Yeah. >> So those are things that um you know we work through >> also an expectation of >> an expectation of the range. >> Yeah. Just there's a range and sometimes we we see the higher end of the range when we're
talking about the AMI. If you're thinking 120% the likelihood that everyone who's going to be going in there is at that higher range is low. And for those who are listening AMI online would be area medium income. I know we throw around these acronyms. were privy to the info. Sometimes the
late people don't >> and and income is uh requested, proof of income is requested, how often. >> So, it has to start when the rental is given and it really ranges depending on
if there's funding sources or not that goes into the affordable housing. So one of the things we're blessed with here in the city of Bake is we do get an allocation from HUD specifically home funds and if they avail themselves of that there's a whole list of other requirements but they have
to provide proof at any time and keep records of that proof um as they they register their tenants because the city of PC also has a tenant registration requirement that has to reconcile all those requirements and they have to provide us with a deed restriction.
So that at any time um they can be audited. We ask for audited financials. Do they get a pilot? Do they not get a So the timing the frequency of the timing is really dependent on all the other things but it it happens um at least annually should
happen at least annually. >> Thank you Councilman. Um, just the affordable, what percentage of AMA is that it? >> It's 80% or below. >> 80%. Thanks. Also, you mentioned this 20-year deed restriction when we're
doing pilots or, you know, I'll say this. There's no pilot on. I'll say I know we kind of went off >> Yeah. Yeah. >> We went off the the ordinance, but I think it was a very good conversation to have. I'm happy to have it. I allowed it
because frankly I think that uh all of the council members learned quite a bit which will hopefully assist us in doing even better jobs. Are there any other questions? >> Just 2523. >> Yeah, just from the following up we had asked for
you know how how meaningful these plans are that the council >> sense. So, at our last meeting, uh, Councilman Monk, um, had requested and council president, you had asked us to prepare a report
of the last 20 redevelopment applications to the planning board and the parking variances that were required. So, we took the last 20 that ranged from 2026 to 2021,
right? Uh, out of those 20, 14 of them did not require a parking variance. They complied. One of them required one parking variance, two of them required two parking variances, one required three
parking spots, but it ended with a one:1 ratio. So even though they got three parking space variance, each unit got a parking space. So it wasn't like a unit was left out. Then there were two outliers. One was five units, one was
seven. One was five parking spaces, one was seven parking spaces. I the the one that is seven parking spaces was like from like three years ago, so I don't remember, but the one for five parking spaces, which was um just last year, and
that was on Main Avenue. So, as council may recall that on Main Avenue, we're actually trying to have residential parking permits and opening up the center islands and the parking deck for
residential parking permits. So, uh developers could come in and offer beyond their parking requirement by residential parking spaces. So, for example, and and councilwoman, correct me if I'm wrong. I think there was one
of them where you required that the uh applicant would have to provide a their parking spaces, but also a residential parking permit for every single car that comes up on their leases. So if all of a
sudden you added a car not, you know, um not to exceed their full amount, they would have to purchase uh at their expense a parking pass for the residents of that unit >> is additional to the pilup or >> additional to the pilup that is a
justification to grant the variance. Remember there's a misnomer and all developers know this already because I've said it till I'm blue in the face. A pilot does not apply until after the case has been adjudicated. There is no I pay you for the parking spot so I don't
have to provide it. That doesn't exist here. They have to get the variance. So even though this and that's a great point. So even though this applicant got a five parking spot variance, even that the board required them to pay for the residential parking permit, the
fact they got the variance still owes us a pilot above and beyond all of that. So those are the numbers for the last 20. So 14 of them did not require one. There was really only two, like I said, that were outliers, one for five, one for seven. But I could tell you that the
one for five which was on Maine and Jefferson um there there's things to take into account was the the access to public transit, the availability of public parking, the
availability of residential parking permits. And you know, if if that were to be granted, then the pilot comes separate apart, which um this council may recall those payments of the pilot was what was used
as the down payment for the parking deck. >> So So you mentioned there's one of them needed one variance, two of them needed two variances. Two variances means two spots. >> Two spots. Everything we're talking about is per spot. >> Those number spots. So basically 14 of
them didn't need any of it. One of them needed one spot. Two of them needed two spot. One of them needed three spots, but it gave a one to one ratio. So every unit got one. Then you had one on Main Avenue that I explained. And then the one for seven I it was it's an older
case, but they did have a onetoone. So even though they were seven spaces short, it was 24 units and they provided 24 parking spaces. >> I saw. >> So they also gave a one to one. Is that me? >> We don't know which
set off. >> Yeah. So, so now I just read the notes. Even the seven was 24 units, 24 parking spaces. So, even though they received a variance, each unit had a parking space. >> Okay. Thank you. Thank you for that research. Appreciate it.
Okay, >> we this is a great project. I just want to council I think it's it's an amazing project to um take literally a corner of the city and it already started right with Market Street. You have some new new stuff that
um that was developed there, right? And um few new buildings there. is really going to transform that whole area in you know in the downtown area. So >> yeah to that point the mayor had asked me to look at it so that and express to
the council this is a holistic approach. >> Yeah >> this is right across the street from Big Apple West. I mean Big Apple West is right across the street from factory 220 which is all commercial >> you know uh from it. Then it's, you know, walking distance from 8th Street, which has the hundreds of thousands of
square feet of industrial space. So, we're connecting people to jobs. We're connecting people to transportation. We're connecting people to businesses, local businesses. This is what redevelopment is all about. I'm very proud to say that. I mean,
>> yeah, I I I did with the council's permission. If you want, I could share you a little slideshow that shows it if you want to see it real quick. I don't >> real quick is quick. Uh, two seconds. It's just pictures. I'll show you real fast. >> Can you give this to the council, please?
There it is. Right. Madame clerk, can I share? >> Yes. I made you co-host. >> Okay. Give me one second. These They're not really these are not really made for computers. So, it's loading. Here it is.
Okay. Uh, >> oh my god, it took me Am I still in the Zoom? >> Yep. >> You're going to help me out here because this thing just disappeared on me. I don't know. Oh, here it is. Okay, I got it because it's on a it's on a web
interface. Let me share Here we go. All right. >> Yeah. Can everybody see that now? >> There we go. All right. See, I figured it out. Took me a minute, but I got it. Okay. Um, so this is the one market
street application. Let me see. Can I do a full screen on this? >> Why is this one so different to navigate? I don't understand. Okay. for years. >> I just want to make it full screen and this thing doesn't work.
As you can see, it's surrounded by the east side redevelopment plan, which is the yellow, and then the burgundy or red is the Market Street redevelopment plan. So, this is literally at the heart of the entrance to our redevelopment area, this site.
It's located surrounded by a multitude of projects. You have the residential projects, the lofts that were converted, factory 220 that was done in the 127 South, which is almost completed. Along those lines, you have a street and
you can't forget Jefferson Street, which was the old Panace site. It's over 7 acres. And these are all logistic and industrial centers which employ hundreds of individuals that are all within walking distance to this redevelopment
plan that's being proposed. Not to mention that these are again the census numbers just so you can see the difference between 2010 when we used to do a one to one to now in 200 26 where
we do a one and a half parking spaces because the average household size has gone up by 0.2 two, right? So, you see, we use data as we approach that. So, one of the biggest things to note is the
diversity in uses, right? The fact that you have all these industrial centers, and these are just the highlights of redevelopment. This isn't even everything that's in that area. These are just the highlighted redevelopment areas as well as all the construction that's going on.
specifically factory 220 which I'm happy to report that we're working on a marketplace saw de bas the 220 experience which will bring small businesses into a an area to provide their different food options within this
factory 220 to fill it up which provides more jobs and it provides amenities to all these workers and and residents in the area as well as possibly a boutique hotels. So if people want to come visit people that live in that area, they're
able to come in and do that. So the reason and purpose for this is to show you what where this project is and why the proposal is what the proposal is and why we presented it to you in the way that we did because this is the gateway.
So if you look at it, this is when you come in off of the highway, you make the right, this is the first thing you'll see when you cross over Route 21. So, it's a it's a very impactful and like Councilman Monk says change would
change that downtown area um and go fit very nicely uh yeah supplement all the other development and uses that are in the area and I think that is it. I will now stop sharing.
There you go. That was quick, right? President as fast as I can. >> Are you saying to me it's over? >> It's over. >> Okay. >> I'll move to close public portion. >> I have a I have a motion and a second to close public portion already. Uh we can
but thank you. Council roll call, please. >> Councilman Monk. >> Yes. >> Councilman Love. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Melo. >> Yes. >> Councilman Mayor. >> Yes. >> Councilman Garcia. >> Yes. >> Counciloman Komz. Yes. >> And Council President Sher. >> Yes. Thank you. On the ordinance,
please. Is there a motion to accept? >> Move it. >> Second. >> Motion and second to accept. >> Councilman Monk? >> Yes. >> Councilman Love? >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Melo? >> Yes. >> Councilman Mayor? >> Yes. >> Councilman Garcia? >> Yes. >> Counciloman Coline? >> Yes.
>> And Council President Sher? >> Yes. Thank you. The ordinance has passed. Number two, please. Proposed ordinance 2528-26. An ordinance amending the designation of restricted parking for disabled persons by New Jersey license plate number. Is there a motion, please, to open public hearing?
>> Yes. And >> second, roll call, please. >> Councilman Monk, >> yes. >> Councilman Love. >> Councilwoman Melo, >> yes. >> Councilman Mayor, >> yes. >> Councilman Garcia, >> yes. >> Counciloman Colom. >> Yes.
>> Yes. And Council President Sher, >> yes. Yes. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, at this time the council will be deliberating and proposed ordinance 2528-26. Is there anyone who'd like to address the council on this item and this item only
showing no hand? Excuse me. >> Yes sir. This is on the ordinance. I did a random survey of reserved parking spots in PAC. >> No sir, we are not on that ordinance. >> I would like to let the council know. >> Excuse me sir, we are we have gone over that. We are now on a new ordinance.
>> Okay. This is for the reserve parking spaces. >> This is for designation of restricted parking. >> Yes. Thank you. I would like to let the council president know that I did a random survey of parking spots with reserve parking. The city is not
enforcing and people's tags are expired, non-existent, but the license plate is still on the sign. I just want the council to know that. Thank you very much. >> Thank you, sir. >> We have a Where are we on this? >> There's no one else you can close.
>> That was in terms of public hearing. from the council would like to adjust the council please on 2528-26. Move to close public portion. >> Motion and second to close public portion. >> Councilman Monk, >> yes. >> Councilman Love, >> yes. >> Councilman Melo, >> yes.
>> Councilman Mayer, >> yes. >> Councilman Garcia, >> yes. >> And Council President Sher, >> yes. Thank you. On the ordinance, please. Is there a maker? >> Move it. >> Second. Councilman Monk. >> Yes. >> Councilman Love. >> Yes. >> Yes.
>> Councilman Melo. >> Yes. >> Councilman Mayor. >> Yes. >> Councilman Garcia. >> Yes. >> And Council President Sher. >> Yes. Thank you. That was on the ordinance. >> Yes, sir. >> Very good. Uh, why? We're up to number three. Post ordinance 2529.
Why don't we take about a five minute break? >> Yeah. >> Is that all right? >> Yeah. >> Y. >> Okay. It's a logical time to do it. Have to vote on it. >> You know, that's one of the few powers that I actually have.
>> Roll call. Council President. Councilman Monk. >> Yes. >> Councilman Love. >> Councilwoman Melo. >> Yes. >> Councilman Mayor. >> Yes. >> Councilman Garcia. >> Yes. >> Counciloman Colom Montz. >> Yes. and council president chair.
>> Yes. Thank you. We are now on >> Yes, I'm here. Council president. >> Thank you, council. >> We are on number three, please. >> We're still on number three, please. Ordinance 2529-26,
an ordinance authorizing the execution of an agreement for payment in lie of taxes pilot with Spear Village Preservation Owner LLC. Is there a motion, please, to open public hearing? >> Move it. >> Second. >> Motion and second. Roll call, please.
>> Councilman Monk, >> yes. >> Councilman Love, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Melo, >> yes. >> Councilman Mayor, >> yes. >> Councilman Garcia, >> yes. >> Councilman Colz, >> yes. >> Council President Sheer, >> uh, yes. Thank you. Uh, we just opened
public hearing. >> Yes, sir. >> Very good. Councilman Monk, your light is on. >> Yes, fine. Thank you. Um can we get just a high level to start in terms of what this project is? I know coming in for payment in L of tax is a
pilot program. Um what what's what is this project consist? >> So so this is uh phase one of the overall rehabilitation and redesign of spear village. So this specific uh pilot
would be for the rehabilitation of the four buildings in the rear. So these buildings are going to remain 100% affordable. Then the rest of the projects would be integrated incomes and possibly uses
with uh commercial. But that's not what we're here for. I don't even have a site plan for the other phases. This is only for the rehabilitation. They need the pilot so they can go to NJHMFA which is the housing mortgage I tried to say housing
and mortgage at the same time. That didn't work out well. The housing mortgage finance agency for their financing which qualifies for the 30-year abatement that you have here. So that funding source is what triggered the 30-year abatement and the
requirements of that 30-year abatement. >> So right, who owns this project right now? who >> currently it is the uh sake housing authority. >> Okay. So they're selling it. >> So they're making an agreement with a developer um to maintain the affordable
housing. So in essence they would be they would be owning it and uh housing authority would be managing it or it be kind of a no that's not how it is. >> Should be trans. >> So we we do have the owner here. I don't know if you want to the developer is here. if you want to ask him
specifically how that transfer works. So, they're going to be um the property is going to be theirs. They're going to manage the property and I think the housing authority manages the vouchers or something like that. >> The gentleman is >> that's what it is. So, I know it was something like that. So, yes, the
housing authority manages the vouchers, but they manage the project. Um they have to be an urban renewal LLC nonprofit to do the the HMFA financing. So then this will go to HMFA for them to get the financing and then they can
start the rehabilitation of the projects. So what's councilman, you have the floor. Did you want to invite the gentleman to address? >> Yeah, I would love to in a few minutes if you don't mind. Okay. So currently these buildings have 256 rental units.
>> Yes. >> Okay. And currently um the when this is finished, the people that are living there will still be eligible to live here. >> Yes. >> Well, there's going to be new requirements. >> No. So, so I mean there's income
requirements that they have to meet, but uh under under HUD um the housing urban development, it requires that there be a relocation plan and that individuals that want to come back to the units are eligible to come back to the units. if
they don't accept a voucher and leave, there's a whole relocation plan that has to be approved by Hood um for those tenants that want to stay or come back. >> Okay. Please, I would love to hear um I'm trying to if you don't mind, I'm trying
to understand what we're doing here right now. I know we have buildings what I six is it four buildings or six buildings >> that are up right now, >> Susie. So I you look like a great guy. You want to help Pay. You know, first person that ever walked in there with a
nice big smile. I love Pay. I want to help. I'm doing it for free. Right. So I'm really trying to understand is that I know that it says that the city of P is going to earn $165,000. >> Yes. >> A year or 3% of income.
>> But I also see here that developer is going to earn $14 million of fees. So, I'm trying to figure out why you should do it and not city shouldn't do this and make the $14 million. Like, what are you bringing to the table? What are you doing? What's your vision here? Okay,
that we should roll out the red carpet for you and hand you the keys to these buildings and it's, you know, capitalism. We should make all the money. I'm sure you deserve it plus more. But explain to me what's going on here. Like, what what are we doing here? >> Sure. Uh we thank you for the
opportunity to present to you and uh I'm glad my smile had some effect. >> Um >> could it go so far as to give us your name, your firm? >> Certain certainly. My name is John Cortell and I'm the principal of Cortell Development Group. I uh represent a
partnership with L&M Development um and together we are collaborating with the housing authority on um the transformation of its existing assets. We are uh engaging in this in this opportunity to collaborate in part
because we have a extensive track record in just this kind of partnership. We value these relationships as a device to uh respond and deliver for communities. So we have been long in conversation with this administration in part uh to
understand goals set and um uh to communicate um something that works for city residents as well as future residents of the city. Um we uh together
with L&M we are doing this work across the state across the state if not across the nation. And um uh we are choosing to do this in part because uh there is a meaningful opportunity enabled through these programs to
uh improve these buildings and deliver uh efficient efficiently. um uh you know improved quality of affordable housing. Um we can do it faster than we can ground up new new construction. We can leverage the
resources created by existing in place buildings which by themselves have residual value to then pursue additional uh new construction components that will supplement the vision of a transformed gateway condition. here. We take this
seriously because this is a gateway into the city and we think that the uh the I these six buildings there are six currently. The conversation that we're having or the evaluation you're you're you're doing now relates only to four in
the back. The four in the back represent a majority of the total and are effectively agents to preserve and place the affordable housing, create and improve those buildings as long-term quality
affordable housing opportunities, but also facilitate redevelopment of underutilized portions of that property, including the office structure and areas on the front on State Street, which are of visible and critical importance.
I I know that you've must have gone through tremendous amount of review before you were chosen, but you shared that you're working in other uh municipalities in the state. Could you just share that with us then? That's >> We've we've been collaborating with with
the state on the repositioning of a meaningful project in Trenton um that's across the street from the AG's office uh known as Kingsbury Towers. property was uh in substantial duress and we are substantially along in a meaningful
repositioning and uh in that instance a similar pilot was approved in part because um the pilot resources enable a substantial rehab. So again, the goal here is to meaningfully transform these
gateway buildings to improve the the offering that they're making for the existing housing. The councilman who said, "Will existing residents be enabled to remain?" Yes, of course. Some portion of the goal is to make sure those residents have improved quality
housing opportunities. uh those buildings have not seen they've been maintained well by the housing authority but they have not seen meaningful investment to modernize those units and create sustainable housing opportunities for the next 30 years. >> You mentioned Trenton. Can you give us
another municipality as well? >> Uh well I mean we're we're currently at work in uh uh Irvington but we um uh we've done a good deal of work in Newark. Um, our firm has done a a variety of of project types. Um, so one
of one of the projects that we were associated with is the Hannes redevelopment in downtown New York. Um, so >> thank you for that. Please go on with your >> Sorry. Um, I want to make sure that I've answered the councilman's earlier question about
the ongoing role of the housing authority. So the housing authority is anticipating effectively um remaining the underlying owner of the asset. So they will maintain fee a fee position and finance an acquisition
price to support the project through a uh seller note. So they will remain the fee owner. There the the subject the property will be subject to a ground lease. The pilot will be on the ground lease and then the housing authority will participate in both the development
uh fee that you cited and will also um play a role in the long-term ownership of the improvements uh to to the um administrator's point um the housing authority will continue to administer vouchers for for the city and
for the uh for the project. So, so you're putting in $147 million the cost, right? >> The overall project cost >> into this these 256 units. That's like
$600,000 a door. >> Some portion of that is um uh the valuation of the land which is then being contributed. So, it's a little bit um I would focus on the amount of work
we're doing and the amount of hard costs uh specifically is over $200,000 a unit with the expectation that that will make a significant dent in modernizing these units. >> So, what so the the just step me through here a second.
So, the housing authority is giving you a note for like 41 million of this, right? to largely offset the purchase price. Yes. >> So, in other words, you're buying it and they're giving you a note. They're carrying
the cost of the partial of the property. >> Yes. I I know that you um have some interest in this business yourself, Councilman. So I I I for the rest of the audience I think um this structure facilitates
um federal tax credit proceeds that then become a source for the hard costs. So um the financial engineering you're citing isn't where the the guts of this is. It's it's really in the fact that we're
doing this without reducing tax collections to the city or asking for upfront subsidy. are doing this entirely on the strength of HUD and federal tax credit proceeds with HMFA functioning as a conduit. >> Okay. Okay.
So, excuse me. So, this note >> Yes. >> Well, what's the interest rate on this note? Curious. >> Honestly, I'm I'm going to get it wrong. Um I don't know. It's it's it's it's
sub 10. I don't I don't know. I don't I don't remember what where we came out. Um tax council to the agency and the tax credit investor will end up resolving that. Um you know, it's uh it's it's not a driver for the housing authority or
for the transaction. It is a part of a uh a financial engineering to try to just generate financial federal tax credit proceeds that then provide a subsidy so that city and state don't have to do it. So basically the the goal here is to
take these 256 units and rehab them, put in a few hundred,000 a door into each apartment and then put put the tenants back in whatever then put put the people back into the project at the rent's going to be the same. It's going to go
up. What's the plan there? the the uh the tenants in place won't see a meaningful adjustment to their out of pocket because I think he said earlier that ultimately they're they're subject to you know limitations on what they what their incomes are. So their rents are tied to their incomes. >> Um what it does do though is it enables
us to um uh with a forwardlooking view enhance the uh breadth of the population that we can serve. So what is currently a public housing asset and is restricted to you know public housing tenency would become uh
more likely to serve the populations the councilman was was referring to when he was when he was suggesting the low uh very low and moderate. So we will effectively be positioning this asset for the long term as affordable but taking it again out of the public
housing regime and making effectively privatizing it and making it um a candidate for households up to 80% of AMI as as the admin administrator said but a breath and depth of of incomes will be served. So again existing
tenants will not be adversely affected. They may have to move >> temporarily >> temporarily because we may have, you know, destroy their units, but um, you know, they would they would have the choice to move back into their unit or move into a different unit, you know. And so, uh, this is, you know, this is
the start of a process as, as the administrator alluded to, and, you know, we take this position seriously because we have been collaborating with this administration on a vision of of uh, positive change at the doors stop the
doorstep of this city. So, uh we're not we're not we want to make sure that we maximize the uh the investment we we make on the per unit basis. So, if you've seen other rehabs of this ilk, not everyone is is so fortunate to be able to, you know, put in $200,000 a
unit. This is we've learned over time that >> where we need to make this meaningful investment. What where as payments in le is is 3% of income where did that number come from?
>> Um functionally it was a byproduct of uh uh understanding what the site is currently generating and putting this site in a position this portion of the property and the entirety of the property to increase tax collections for the city as a whole.
>> But we're only dealing with one part of it. >> That's correct. So to to get to your point uh hopefully this is the point you're trying. So the HMFA it's not our normal tax pilot structure. It actually starts below the 10% mark. But then there's the other phases which Mr.
Cortell is alluding to which is the front of the site along State Street. that is separate and apart with separate financial agreements that um depending on the funding source will run a more traditional possible you know tax you
know pilot or payment or >> and you have required us to consider uh you know the relative diversity of the city and so um our goal our collective goal the conversation is to asssure that this site has a mixed product offering
uh one that serves populations at various rental levels. And so what he's hinting at is that future phases are intended to embrace this sort of evolution and offer, you know, higher higher rent units which would then turn around and have generate higher pilot
payments. So it's a it's intended to be a comprehensive plan. um elements that are not addressed by this is that uh uh we're we're trying to maintain um this the site's collections for the city. So the
city is not taking any reduction in collections, but we're also taking back some of the responsibilities. So the property going forward will maintain security for itself and privatize the trash service. So the burden no longer sits with the city. So taken alone the
pilot is probably uh not telling the full story that considerations for some of those other obligations that we expect to take on are part of the picture too. >> And and the lease under the land is file along how
many years? It's it's effectively structured as a forever lease because uh in order to to make this work for tax credit purposes, it has to be a transfer of title for federal tax credits. So, I mean, it's I think it's it has the potential of being 99 years, but it's I
think it's 50 years with an extension >> and the restrictions stay forever with the with the ground lease call it, you know, in terms of affordable housing. >> Theoretically, I mean, the housing authority has prioritized the maintenance of affordable housing. So um it is their expectation that the the
regulatory regime would be perpetuated in some form. I mean it seems like so enduring a set of requirements. I don't know what what the future long-term future will hold but the on you know the the tax credits themselves have a have a period of
compliance right and extended so at minimum of 30 years and it will keep going based on uh the housing authorities's kind of targeted goal of maintaining affordability >> so I missed that so my point where I'm going is know can it in 20 years or 30
years um can all this affordable stuff go away and this becomes a market rate complex. >> Uh it is unlikely in this instance because of the involvement of the housing authority on a normal property. There is this possibility that at at the
end of the 30-year comp extended use period it could go away. I I don't I don't see that happening under these circumstances. that I you know we come to this uh trying to pursue this in an engagement of the partnership with you guys and the housing authority and you
know I don't know what what the future holds but I expect that we need to we need to buttress this facility for the next 30 years so the affordable housing needs of this population are met but we're also enabling new populations who who aren't necessarily public housing tenants to use these units.
>> Okay. Thank you. No problem. Councilman Mayor um >> the percentage of units that are affordable again 100%. >> The $600,000 a unit sounds like a lot. Why is there a rehab versus a knockdown?
>> Right. So I I think um he tried to explain that before. So, it's really a more about 200,000 a unit. >> The reason, right, because there's like uh implications for the land and the purchase of the land, and that's why the numbers look higher than they really are.
>> And just just so we're clear, the the pilot payment for this this proposal for these four sites is more than what we're currently getting for the entire site. And then ultimately depending on the other buildings and those there'll be s
significant increases from there. Right? So just so you kind of get a baseline. The reason that the numbers are the way they are is because the whole rear section is 100% affordable for those 30 years. And I would agree with Mr. Cortell. The fact that there's
involvement with the housing authority. Um, for some of the council members that might have been here at that time, that was already done by the housing authority under Victor Cerillo when they did the senior houses. All the senior housing that is currently senior housing
um did a similar program where they went into a voucher program and they sold it. The best way they showed it is like a refinance of it, but it kind of worked in a similar vein where they used that money, the equity of that income to infuse it back into the building to
rehabilitate the unit. So, it's a rehabilitation model where we're looking at a new construction model for the front of the state. But again, that's not why we're here, but just to give you an idea of what's to come um and kind of how those
tax implications will be. I think the property owner mentioned this and council monk touched on it and I think we're we're expecting for at least 30 years 30 years for the term of this pilot it to remain 100% affordable. >> Yes, >> at least. But it typically extends
longer than that because of the involvement of the housing authorities. >> Can I get some of this some clarity? Is there are these buildings being taken down? >> No, not the four buildings. They're being fully gutted, rehabbed.
It's a gut rehab of the interior and there's exterior repointing and windows and things that we talked about. And what happens to the people living in these apartments today? >> So depending on how the construction goes, they may be working on units that
are vacant and then asking people that want to stay to move. But before all that, there's a whole relocation plan that has to be approved by HUD that's then offered to all the tenants. And then depending on who stays, who goes, there'll be a musical chairs for lack of
a better expression for those that want to stay while they repair the evenings. Mr. President, we held multiple town hall meetings here at the council chambers where residents were allowed to come and ask questions, but there were very clear presentations and they even have what is often referred to as a
relocation manager which like a project manager that is uh tasked with the responsibility of meeting with each family member. Each of them are going to be given vouchers and they'll be able to choose whether or not they want to move somewhere and come back to the apartment. They have first dibs which is
an easier way to describe it to come back to the apartment and as the business administrator described it they can move to a vacant apartment as fixing one and they come back to me but it is it is very much the priority of the housing authority along with our
administration and I with our city council and those involved to ensure that every family understands their options and they are considered along with the process. As to the question that was asked by council mayor and I think um council monk alluded to it and I know you were concerned of this as
well. It would have been the desire to knock them all down. I I made that very clear and Jonathan was excellent beyond his smiles but he knows that my response will come when the project is done. We we often discuss the need to ensure that
it is significant that it's not just superficial rehab. I think the business administrator again described it perfectly as he articulated to full gutting and ensuring that when the people come back they see the change and that it is set up for success for the
next 30 years and so on. But each family member um or each individual resident that is in the unit will be given the option to come back or to take their voucher and free country go wherever they can with their voucher if they so choose.
And that's on through house. >> Okay. Did we have public hearing yet? >> Right now we are. No, we're in a public hearing and the council has questions which I'm entertaining before discussion.
>> What else can you can you share with us mayor? And I must tell you this is this is the real deal. Huh. I remember being on housing authority 30 years ago. >> Yes. That's when you started. That's right. That's when Yeah. Oh gosh.
>> Again, I want to reiterate because I think it's important. We've had multiple town hall meetings. We've had residents come and some have been uh tense to say the least and others have been uh much more productive as people understood
what the process is. It's it's been a real effort and I do want to commend Jonathan for being present at each of the meetings including the executive director, the commissioners on board, the representatives from housing to ensure that the residents understand that it is a collective
um commitment by government, by the developers, by the investors, by housing to ensure that this project and considering that it is a gateway and entrance to the city is not just about aesthetics. It's about investing in the families.
The mixed income is purposely done to ensure that individuals aren't living in a in a concentration of low income which that formula and as the business administrator shared I believe at the last council meeting has not shown to be successful. >> So go ahead.
>> So what do we do then mayor when we've got the people to replace? >> I'm living in public housing now. I have to exit it for a year whenever I come back. How do we ensure that all the people coming back which are the vast majority of people period don't all
reflect one economic status? >> Well, that's that's that's sense. >> Yes. Right. So, uh as Mr. Corteell was stating and I don't want to lose that uh as part of the conversation, there is a range that is required of the HMFA on
different AMIs. So what happen? So what happens if that range and I remember clearly what you had said and I appreciate it tremendously. But what happens if practic practically everybody who wants to come back comes back and all of the people coming back
are at the same economic income level. >> One the much better units we have before. That's what we have now. >> Yeah. And uh they end up having much better units and hopefully their children grow up in an environment where they see greater opportunities and the
next generation does better and they get access to more income, more job. And then in the future, what was alluded to with a mixed income? They may be living alongside someone that would inspire them to say, "Hey, this individual's going to college. I'm going to college or this person started a business and
perhaps my son or my daughter, I can work there." Ideally that would be the case. Um obviously we we cannot 100% predict what will happen but I think the investment in the area the approach being taken
will go a long way to let families know that their income subsidized housing shouldn't mean substandard living. That we are going to invest in in that project and provide opportunities for
growth. And sometimes that's just with a change of environment. And I think that will be called there, >> right? And there's there's um checks and balances through that approved relocation plan from HUD for making those accommodations.
>> Yeah. This this is vetted by multiple layers, not just like the city and the housing authority, the HMFA, the federal government. Like but to your point and I think it's a good point but it's important that we share what what would be the alternative. I
mean if we're investing there where people live we want to let them know you have the right to come back. >> No >> each one of them that leaves and I think you you have shared that in the past for it's extremely important that everyone knows they're not being kicked out so we can make something nice and then they don't get access to it again. But there
is a plan moving forward to ensure that there are opportunities for workforce for moderate for income that is mixed you know uh without taking away from them and also not one of the problems that I remember years ago and perhaps
it's no longer German today but rewarding people for intergenerational occupancy of something that was never meant for intergenerational um are are are we condoning promoting a
culture which is antithetical to what it is that we're trying to accomplish. >> That's a much deeper conversation here for that. >> No, no, it's a it's a fair conversation. I don't know where it goes in the
future, but council president, I remember a few months ago we heard that there was going to be a a sort of end to uh housing um from this administration. There were rumors that you would get two years to come off and you're gone. We know that that approach to say it's
callous and cruel would be an understatement. Of course, we want to encourage individuals to not want to live there and pass it on to the next generation in terms of um depending on finance. We we want to see upward economic and social mobility. We want we
want you to go to college. We we want you to get a better job and not have to live there. When when the business administrator said a holistic approach, bear with me and I I'll try to wrap up quick. I remember when we talked about why it was important for us to redo
Dundi, why why we went after over $12 million, why we wanted to give the downtown area this beautiful park in front of the river so that kids wouldn't grow up just staring at brick and mortar.
Because we believe that when you're exposed to something better, it opens up the possibilities, not just the actual ones, but the intangible ones. what your mind can conceive what you think what you can dream of for many. The idea of nature
may inspire you to think that there's something else in this world and not to box too poetic. The idea that we would invest there that there would be mixed income that they would see something different than just brick and mortar there. Maybe there's a commercial
component and you're working when they are on the first floor. Then maybe some of the investments, whether it's just bushes and trees and seeing more green will will change your mentality and say, "I liked the way this looked when I grew
up and I want more. I want to buy a house. I want to move somewhere else." That's how I would respond to it. that though we cannot guarantee it, we believe that data has shown that the impact of where you live and and how you
perceive it directly or at least data again I'll reiterate correlation between whether or not you move up whether you get a better education and get a better job and that's the best that we can do. last note on this and then we'll open up
discussion more but I'll remember when I was in the housing authority I kind of blew some people's minds I I suggested that each commissioner with his or her family should occupy an apartment in Spear village for a month to understand
better the construct um my colleagues shot me down immediately for lots of reasons most of them bad but nonetheless Okay, members of the council, guess
>> I'll yield to the council. I'll yield to the council. >> Go ahead. Councilman Love, you can go. >> I I want to say thank you to everyone for the dialogue and mayor. I I know how intense you are um and hands-on with
this project, but the question I have is have we had any uh citizens or residents on any of the committees or sat in on the development of this plan? The reason why I ask is that um they they they provide a insight that many of us
probably wouldn't even have. So, I'm just wondering if if we had any uh one or a few residents um in this planning stage andor in the umformational stage of the project.
>> I know I spoke about town hall meetings, but there was also the inclusion of input from the residents with uh I believe there were surveys that went out. there was information that housings are now working alongside with uh the developers and the investors. So yes,
there was a there was multiple opportunities throughout this process for residents to share input uh to definitely share their concerns to respond to uh information that they were receiving sometimes inaccurate
information um more more so directly from housing. But again, I think that we had at least four here and and over there at um at Aspen Place as well as we did tours, went door to door. I mean, one time we
were on the roof >> um having a meeting up there. That was one of the more exciting meetings. >> Thank god no one jumped. >> So, yes, councilman. Yes, there has. But what what we can do of course is and through the business administrator um
reach out to the housing um director the executive director just to share some information in regards to the residents involvement that we could present to the next council meeting so they are aware. I thank you so much for that, mayor. Um because I think that's that's a crucial
part of this, right? Because and and I'm I'm being a little uh redundant because it has been said in terms of the process and how these vouchers are going to work. There's a lot of garbage out there and we need to be as transparent and as
fair to folks who who one, this is a a very new process to many of us and them as well. So I I would just like in you know that as much information and input from the residents as possible and I
thank you. I I see you have done so. >> Thank you council council please. >> Thank you council president. Um so with this pilot is this similar and please follow me just what is happening with um like the NICHA in New York what they're
doing with their um with their housing is that similar where they're going in rehab people are moving out and then bringing it back but also the managing company pretty much still owns the land the managing company will man maintain
the day-to-day the same way this is going to be managed Yeah, very very similar. Yeah, it's very similar. I just don't like to compare us to just in case but again to clarify that housing will be
dealing with the vouchers. >> Yes. >> And then they will be dealing with the actual property. >> Okay. Okay. And how long as people are um moving out, how long will they be out for? Is there a time frame? Six months, a year?
um how quick is I mean I've seen cases where a month or two but take longer. >> Yeah, it's not it's not as long as all that. I I think it will ultimately depend on the final scope of work we we select but um we've been talking about
two to four weeks at the longest okay for the for the person's displacement and what we've been doing by the way is displacement is only to a hospitality setup that we might provide on on premises. So functionally a unit a
restored unit will be made available to that population. So they they move into what was previously a vacant that's now been restored and then while they're in this hospitality suite their unit is renovated and so they can then move back. So they're not off they're not you
know lost at sea during that period. They're simply in a different unit. Um, we have done some off-site hoteling, but >> you know, it'll it'll depend and we we we spend a lot of time uh focus on communication because
>> this is disarming. This can be uh unsettling and we want to we want it to be as as painless as possible because >> we want them to be an advocate for the success of the building and then the building will endure. >> Okay. Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. Um, why don't you, if you
wouldn't mind, Jonathan, why don't you just stay where you are? I think we're going to >> Oh, okay. >> Councilman, uh, mayor, please. >> Wearing another hat. I've climbed those stairs because of the elevators being out of service, and I can only imagine
how terrible it is for the residents, having two elevators out of service. Tell me those elevators are getting >> modernized. Absolutely. Yeah. >> Two brand new elevators. I I I don't I don't want to like speak out of turn because I'm not sure I have a handle on
the details, but we've we've done this enough to know that the elevators are like the heartbeat of the building. So, you can't have uh elevators that don't function or that are inclined to go out. The building is underserved. So, we will be modernizing the elevators to improve
speed and quality. So, it's a core it's a core tenant of the scope. No question. >> Thank you. >> No problem. Um, >> how about in terms of vandalism while everything's going on, Jonathan? How does that work? >> Uh, how do we inhibit vandalism? How do
we uh some It's very hard to compete with what the mayor was saying, but but if I can highlight what he said >> a long time ago, by the way. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, I'll give up. I I'll just say that some portion of pride of place was going to offset some of
that. We think that um vandalism will be reduced by the care with which we deliver the improved product and then the expectations that we communicate to the residents. So uh the management team that will be in place some portion of which will have learned from the experience of the existing housing
authority staff will be targeting the issues that have been issues of the past and creating impediments to any problems that you have seen over time. And I think we will also be in a position to
exercise more discretion with where tolerance should be should be should be short shortened right if if there is a repeat offender um that that won't be tolerated and and and it will be addressed. Um, one of the
comments earlier, and maybe this speaks to something you said, Councilman, is that, um, uh, tenants will be subject to annual leases, and those leases will have, um, adjustments based on what the
administrator referred to as the AMI. So, the AMI is adjusted from year to year. Tenants will be subject to rent increases over time, which isn't really the case now in the public housing establishment, right? But the the rate increases are moderated. Um there's no disincentive for the
tenant to grow their income. In fact, it's encouraged. I say this with confidence in part because I think the tax credit program has one been one of the most effective devices for the development of affordable housing whether it's the you know the market rate buildings in Manhattan that have
affordable set aides. those affordable set aides are are made possible by a tax abatement and by the tax credits that we're using as well. So, councilwoman, you said something about a NICHA project. Some portion of this same
formula, the math is is is employing some of the same logic that's being used on the affordable components of those market rate town uh towers on 6th Avenue, for example. So um we expect uh limitations on the transfers of the
leases because named parties on the leases have to be counted towards the household size and each of the uh uh households fit the units subject to a tax credit regulatory agreement. So there will be parameters that are more
strict than the ones that are in place on the public housing potentially addressing some of your concerns about long term. >> Yeah. But but just to be clear, those increases are limited by HUD. >> Yes. And the annual adjustments. So, right. So, >> I just want to just for the record, after all we've been through, I want to
make Yeah. This is this is handled those increases and the amounts that's all handled by HUD that gives us the numbers that we have to abide by. >> So, this is not just open the the faucets. He has to follow whatever HUD
required. On top of that, council president, I did I did want to add because you shared about addressing existing issues. Jonathan had shared there haven't had any significant rehabs for over 30 years. Just to remind some who may be watching online and those who
aren't familiar, some of the complaints that we have had the years, doors that don't close, security locks that are never functioning, individuals who come in and out unchecked. I know that there was a similar project done in one of our
neighboring municipalities, largest one is state north, where one of the specific properties as they were looking at it, the design strategically considered what aspects of it were making it more conducive for individuals to avoid or
stay in areas that perhaps you would want to decrease or you wouldn't want that. I know that we've had conversations about what it will look like, how it will be managed, and how the design will impact that. So, I think that speaks directly to some of the
concerns, not only vandalism, but um of of real worries of families in terms of their children and safety and when they're engaged in recreation and coming home after school. And I know all of this will be taken into consideration in
terms of the rehab and the gutting of the units individually which I think it's important that that that gets highlighted as well that there are vacant units that they will begin with and then obviously in a pragmatic approach go now that we have a vacant unit has been rehabbed you can go in
there because I think perhaps the perception might be or the understanding is some that it gets fully gutted all at the same time and everyone has to go they go in piece by piece they or address that. >> Mayor, my last question I I
I shouldn't I I think I have my last question. >> Tell me about the Trump effect. What I mean by the question is um most of us would agree whether we are in favor of the president's policies or not
that he is the best pecurial that he changes his mind maybe several hundred times a day on any given subject. Is it possible that he wakes up tomorrow morning? God willing, he wakes up tomorrow morning. Well, um, and he
changes his mind in terms of what HUD does and how it does it. And we're going to get out of this affordable housing business because we should be pouring all of our money into making a more aircraft carriers because we need one, too. >> Unfortunately, I think you answered your
own question. Um, anything is possible. Um, >> is there anything that we've done or need to do or should do to make sure that we don't have that scenario? >> My impression is that this uh represents
a policy that uh has general we're implementing a program that has general support um that uh HUD does has been changing policies on on the daily. We've gotten an update on policy statements, you know, just yesterday. But I think
that um the formula that we have laid out here is one that um is being encouraged by this HUD um as well as its predecessors. And you know, the big beautiful bill expanded the the credit program. Yes, it had a
negative effect on the amount of credits. So the the it made too many credits available. So the price of the credits is coming down. natural supply and demand. So, um, policy changes made have both intended and unintended consequences. I believe
that this program is supported by and would be sustained by the policies of this administration, but as you said, I can't, nobody can predict. as you stated in murial. I think that's the key word. But there's a green light right now and we can move forward and that we've seen
some uh some positive response from this administration side with this project and I think the mixed income the uh the plan itself as Jonathan already articulated has been wellreceived. So that's why we're trying to move forward. Councilman Mark, your light
>> and then I want to try to open this up to uh other people besides the governor lobby. >> Um how do we guarantee that the reason why the mayor may you have invested so much time and effort into
this to improve the housing of the people that live in Spirit Village, right? There are developers and there are developers, right? Um, you could build an apartment with a
solid door. You could build an apartment with a hollow door. Okay? A hollow door doesn't take long before it's kicked in and has holes in it. Right? So once we sign, excuse me, once we sign an agreement here for the next 30, 40 or 50
years, like we have no clue how long this will last, but a long time, right? And you get all your pilots and you get everything. What incentive is there for you to build a project that's going to maintain the look and the feel what we're trying to
accomplish here? Then in five years be back where we where we are today. Obviously, these buildings are old. I don't know if we'll ever get back to where we are, but we're not going to accomplish with all the effort and goals. So, what
is in place the negotiations with this developer? Okay, he might be a nice guy, great smile and everything, right? But the bottom line is we're all human beings and we all like making money and we all like making more money. Okay? So
the difference between a a project that's really solid built for the future built with this in mind that in terms of the maintenance the type of carpet you could put down carpet that's $10 a square foot $30 a square foot whatever it is in terms of how long it lasts what
it's going to look like could make a difference you know to to a developer could be millions of dollars money in his pocket. what is in place to guarantee that what the goal here is is actually going to play out. I mean, these are numbers.
Numbers don't talk about quality. >> Yeah. So, if we could just address that, please. >> Understood. But what I was going to say is there's there's no way that we have a 100% guarantee. There are requirements that they have to meet. There are construction codes. There are
inspections. But allow me to elaborate a little bit more. As government, it's our responsibility to determine whether a partner, and I'll refer to them as a partner, with the city, has the best interest in mind of
our residents, aligns with our vision, and of course, none of us are naive enough to think they're not in it to make a profit. Everyone is. So, we look at history, as Jonathan had shared, previous projects. We understand that to
a certain extent they need this project to be a positive one because they want to do more. I don't imagine this will be their last one. They want to do this project and they're done in the state. We have some
and I I'll try to be uh humble in the description some rather influential officials from the state and locally. some that know this business and know the numbers and know exactly how these
projects should end up. In case anyone's missing it, I'm talking about a sevenman Councilman Monk Planner, Council Mayor, Councilwoman Melo, Councilman Garcia, Councilwoman Montanz, and Council Love, and myself. This isn't a an approval and
then we all walk away. I mean, Jonathan can share how many meetings we've had, some of them very tense in our conference room, some of them including representatives from housing, some with residents, and we've stayed very late into the evening until every single
person has been heard. outside of just the obvious safeguards of of inspections and code regulations and requirements, it's that we are all involved in this and we're going to be
involved in it every step of the way. So, I'm I'm not sure if you're suggesting something, but I want you to know that we we did do our due diligence. there was a visit on a similar project with them in Newark to
inspect it, to consider it, to see how it's working, not just a year after, but years after. That's why I referred to certain safety measures that sometimes come by design. Those are strategic design. when you're developing, you can
sometimes create conditions that invite elements of uh undesirable elements to come and create issues and then there's designs that can deter that. I think all of that is being put together. But in terms of structurally sound construction and
ensuring that safety concerns are addressed, they have to. We can't you can't circumvent regulations and laws. We're not the kind of city that allow you to do that and turn a blind eye to it. >> Right. I I appreciate that. However, I I
will say that, >> you know, government is government, right? We all wear different hats, right? >> I don't know if anyone in city hall. I don't mean to in any way negative, but bottom line is we all have our
specialty, right? And there aren't people that specialize in terms of writing up a quality a spec report on a development. Like if you go to a typical development, there's a what's it called? AI form. AIA a what's it called? That form
form, right? That that's specifies exactly the quality of everything that's going to be used by a developer. You know, it's there's a difference when you start, you know, the the you change the quality of
the door, you change the quality of the molding, you change the quality of the countertop, okay? You change any little thing, the amount of years of what it's going to look like, right? And I I I don't know like who I I'll be a
lot more comfortable knowing again that the city has a consultant, right, that went through the detail of the building that we're giving here. You know, it's a it's a beautiful I I get the benefit what it is for the city. I I get that. But there's also benefit you're not doing it for free. You're not running a charity organization, right? And
granted, you deserve it, right? But when someone's making millions and millions of dollars of profit, one that little change is another million dollars. Why? Why shouldn't they? >> I would. I mean, if I hadn't have anyone writing >> unlike a different project though, >> I as much as I love
>> gentlemen, I need you both have so much important things to say. If one could say, >> no, no, it's an important question. I just want to say unlike other projects, they're doing this with housing. Housing is going with them every step of the way. So they have to keep an eye on it.
They they don't get to deviate and cut corners and tell housing don't worry about it. >> Understood. So the fact we have code does not tell you what type of door you have to have. >> No, but they make sure the door is put in correctly. So what you have is there's multiple layers. I can't stress
this enough. It is you are correct. Everybody has their specialties. There's like 50 different specialties that have to review this before it gets approved. And I'm I'm glad you brought the A1A. They can't get release of funds until HUD reviews that reimbursement for that
portion and make sure it complies with what it is that they're submitting. So there besides our code that's going to make sure it's built correctly. Not to mention, don't worry about the apartment doors because the UCCC requires them to be solid and can't be hollow. So that's a requirement. That's why when he was
saying I was like I got to tell him that, right? So besides those, you also have the requirements of the funding source that's going to analyze and review every single dollar. And by the way, and I've been there, and I know you might have been there, too, where if the nail isn't the right nail that they said
that was in the A1A, they're like, "We're not paying for that nail. You said it was going to be this nail, and that's why I'm that's what I'm paying for. I'm being a little extra." >> We also have their track record to look >> Well, that's where the mayor started. >> We're working in Irvington and Trenton. I mean, you can survive building CRA.
Yeah, East Orange. Yeah. I mean, >> excuse me. >> I I think Councilman, some of the other points they're both making, but implicitly, um, HMFA has reviewed our our plans on all of these projects and
reviewed them diligently for the quality of the product. Just as you suggest, we we take on through this tax credit program a investor who is the limited partner in the ownership and they have uh ongoing monitoring that they will do.
In fact, I'm we have a building in Orange. I'm being sort of tortured on that where they want to remove a street tree because it is a tripping hazard street tree. It's probably more beneficial than not, but there's to the
administrative credit there's there's an enormous amount of uh it takes a village to get these deals done and there will be multiple eyes on this. So, it's not the the obligation will not simply be on the city. Furthermore, some of the
structure of these deals necessitates a uh deferral of some portion of the fee that you've called out and the expectation is that that fee has to be collected over 15 years. So the assumption that we would make is that we
are in it to assure the success of the building for not today, not tomorrow, but we're motivated to assure the collection of the the deferred fee over that 15-year period. And and finally, we've done this enough. I mean, look, I
I I want to believe that I can accomplish this project for the mayor, for the administrator, for you by myself, but I bring to the to bear a robust development concern with 400 people. And the expectation is that they have they they all want to tell you
about all the mistakes that can be made. And we will have that not only will we be policed by others, we will police ourselves. And we will assure a product that we will be proud to own, proud to put on our in our portfolio. And hopefully we don't have to do anything to maintain it because it was so well
built. >> Thank you, >> Mr. Wolf. You've been patiently sitting and I know you wanted to escape on the >> I appreciate that very much. Council President, I want to ask the council, as much as we have not been receiving
any money or any tax revenue from these 256 units to date, it seems to me, I'm sure it occurs to you as well, that this is a once- ina-lifetime opportunity for the city. The city doesn't have many
assets to auction off, to sell off, to lease off. It sounds like there are other projects like this that are getting higher tech pilot payments. This project is in an opportunity zone. This project is
getting seller financing. This project is getting lit credits. This is getting tax credits. It seems to me not only that, for every $1 invested in this project, this developer is receiving
back $1 in loans from the seller and $1 in tax credits. That's $2 back for every $1 invested. 3% pilot is takes that means it's going to take
this developer 10 days of collecting rent of that year to pay taxes. The average multif family in Payic, it takes you a month, I'm sorry, it takes you a month to pay back taxes.
A $1,500 rent on 10 units has an average of 15,000 in taxes on a two family house in PAC. It takes you 109 days in collections to pay your property taxes. You have an average of $4,400 in rent a month on a two family and you have an
average of 16,000 in taxes. So 109 days. So this developer is they take him 10% of the time of a two family house to pay his tax bill. Why am I saying a tax bill? Mr. Fernandez mentioned a Rucker study.
A recorder study says that up to 60 students come to public school in low tech housing for every 100 units. If they're proposing 400 units, that's 240 students. That's a cost of 4 to5 million based on how much it costs in Payic to
educate students. We know low income, this police department's very busy with, EMS is busy with. There's a lot of social services. I'm asking the city. This developer sounds like he knows what he's doing and we're learning what he's doing. Do we really need him today? I'm
sure you could work with him. Do you need to give away this asset for the next 30 years at 3%. One more point. There's something called a break even point. The break even point in businesses where the costs
start stop and the revenue starts creating income. So, if you have a lowinccome project in Louisiana collecting $600 in rent compared to a project in New Jersey collecting $2,200 of rent, your refrigerator is the same
cost nationwide. That means in Louisiana, you're going to have to take one month's rent to replace that refrigerator. In New Jersey, you're going to replace a refrigerator with a cost of 10 days rent. this developer as soon as he starts raising rents, his income is going to
far exceed the city's income. Meaning to say on day one, he might be break he might be even. He might be breaking even even though he'll be making money. But as his rents go up, his net income, his percentage of rent that goes towards his income exponentially increases while the
city is still collecting only 3% of his rent. I'm asking the city again. Can you collect 10%. Can do you have to give them a 30 years? I don't mean to one up on the city, but the city mentions 5year payment or
30-year abatement. The fact of the matter is that the city can give a seven-year tax pilot. They can give a 17-year tax pilot. How much does this developer need and how much does this developer want? Thank you. I'm sorry, one more point I forgot to
mention. While the city is not making money on this development today, this develop I'm sorry. Thank you, >> Mr. Fernandez. Why a pilot of 20 years? 20 years is >> it's a 30-year pilot, but it's it's it's
developed based on the funding source. So, as I stated originally, the numbers are guided through the HMSFA financing and the numbers that they're looking for, which are typically under 6%. And we can't. So, there were a lot of
assumptions made in those statements that cannot be used under this product. It's 100% affordable. It's an HMFA uh low-inccome that's lit is low-income housing tax credits that are used um for
the project as well as we are looking for the future investment which is part of the project of the other phases that require additional funding that will not be included in the same type of financing. So again going back to our
point of a holistic project. This is phase one. That's why I started with that of an overall project that infu that's going to infuse additional dollars in different ways that will not qualify for this. It's a it's an overall
kind of um approach that's going to require that. And I think you've heard for quite some time now how the the structure it's a layered structure. So the numbers you're looking at isn't exactly a one-year deal. It could be
paid back through 15 years. So that there's multiple layers. Not to mention that we also need it to be viable enough to lead to the construction of the other phases which will infuse much greater t much more open and greater taxable
uh interest which is kind of the long-term tax abatement law versus how it's guided under HMFA which does not follow the same structure. It has to be below that structure. Just as a matter of curiosity, Victor Holinsky is
involved with this. Yeah, >> he is the his firm is the at the attorney's representative. They brought a representative, Mr. Cory Klein from his office from SS Cumins and Gross. >> Thank you. >> What do we council may please? >> Is there is like there time of Is there
a time of essence here? So, we're not seeing the holistic picture. >> Is there like a time of essence here? Like we're not seeing the holistic portion. >> That is correct. So right now they need to get into that pipeline for HMFA financing. So right now they require
this document so he can be put into the pipeline for the funding. So that'll get them the rehab of that component and then you can leverage that rehab off in the other units and the other construction that they're doing. >> When do we expect to see the rest of
this project phase? >> So my understanding and Jonathan correct me if I'm wrong. You're looking at construction sometime next year, right? >> Uh >> for the FA for the rehab. >> Yes. The goal is honestly the goal is to
try to get to the financing closing this year so that we can implement the rehab as soon as possible. Uh you know HFA process so they know the length of time. >> Sure. So so the approval of the pilot enables a what is called a financing
authorization by the HMFA. Um, we are also subject to HUD timeline. So, HUD is waiting for this in order to sort of affirm what they've called a concept call and then a financing plan um with approvals by HMFA and HUD and then
engagements by banks who will buy the credits and part of part of the pilot structure is dictated to by the tax credit investor who wants some relative security about the schedule for as long as they're in the deals. The credit investors in for at least 15 years. So, they're looking for no less than a
15-year pilot. >> Um, the goal is to get to the rehab done uh by the end of the year and then follow, you know, say 6 to 12 months later with the new construction on what is
currently the office building. If the administration, if the administrator feels it's appropriate, I would suggest that we, you know, uh, before the end of this calendar year, if not before the end of the summer, we discuss more about the new construction and, uh, and its
attributes. So, >> when you refer to new construction, you're talking about phase two of this. >> Phase two is contemplated as the redevelopment of the office, >> the two buildings on State Street. >> That would be theoretically phase three. >> So, when do we get to see that? Um I I
will work uh in coordination but the timeline's on >> tell you why like we're gonna go through this process now till next year. All of a sudden we're you know you're going through this process and then we're going to see the state. >> So the discussions we're having is that as they're doing the rehab we're working
on site plans for the set the other phases right which could be two different phases or a blurred phase two right. >> Yep. >> Um where they're going to be preparing. So the work isn't stopping on phase two and three. It's just in development
phase, right? So they got to get through this first phase and then they're working on site plans for the other phases and then they have to go out and finance those other phases. So I can't assume and the timeline's really on you based on what your preparation is, but I can't see the other phase starting till
the year after that at least. Right. >> Well, right. I mean, I'm also uh we're interested in, as I said earlier, um creating a more uh diverse income mix over the overall and the state is enabling us in part to consider a
workforce housing band and there is a fund being raised that would be available statewide and we'd like to get into the queue for that. So, uh honestly, I'm looking >> funding related. I'm looking at the administrator in part because I I don't want to get ahead of him, but we haven't
we're eager to, you know, discuss the next phase two. So, I don't if you want to have a conversation at a future meeting, I'm happy to come back and make a presentation. >> Right now, we haven't got so basically he's preparing for the phases and we had a conversation about meeting up to
discuss those future phases. So, that >> we're talking about the next biggest greatest thing, but like the sooner we see it, I think the happier. >> Yeah. I mean, and I don't want I don't want to miss the point of what Jonathan said that there is funding out there. So, a lot of it's also guided by the
funding, right? So, he wants to get in that queue as soon as possible, which would then require him to speed up the process on the other phases to get in the pipeline because, you know, just like low-income housing tax credits are one of the most competitive financing options, you want to make sure you're competitive and get in there sooner
rather than later. But again, we're also beholden to their timelines and when they release the funds so that then he can start on the other phases. What I can tell you from an administrative perspective was that we are ready to accept those proposals
at any time that they're prepared. So, uh, Jonathan had discussed having a site plan prepared for us to look it over before he submits the other phases. Right? because of everything the mayor just said and all the discussions we had here and what he heard
early this evening, he wants to make sure that that site plan is exactly the vision that the mayor's been talking about. And in regards to time being of the essence, I mean that the council president referred to the Trump effect.
We've heard words that this is a once in a-lifetime opportunity. And of course, we can sit and speculate how 10% of 50% of the 80% of the 100% of the 200% divided by pi and multiply by three cuz I can grab an from the sky as well and
make a presentation. But specifically what we're discussing right now is whether or not this is a worthwhile project. Whether we've done our due diligence, whether we've seen projects done in the past and seen the positive impact, whether there's going to be
oversight based on the funding source, based on regulations and code, and whether or not these families are going to get an opportunity to see significant rehab and opportunities to develop an area that has, and I know that um
Jonathan said, underserved that housing has done a good job of managing, but I'll be a little more blunt. that has been in disarray and neglect for way too long. I think that there are a lot of opportunities now to make a
real impact. I think that it is the desire of every member of this governing body because I've had conversations with all of you to provide better for our residents and this is a real opportunity and I don't know what happens with this administration. I think the council president was very poignant when he
shared that profound. You're right. Things could change a year from now, but right now it seems like everything is lined up. And if we sit around wondering, can we do better? Can we get better and lose out an opportunity to make this change? I don't think it would be worth it. That's my two cents. If you
divide it by 5%, it would be less. Sorry. >> It is now almost 10:00. I'd like to ask that questions be as limited as possible, but if there are questions, what are they? >> Yeah. Thank you, Council President. I I
do have a question. Is there any legal commitment that the city gave for the rest of the parcel? I mean, you know, you made a great presentation. Sounds like you have a great company, but I don't maybe there's someone with even a bigger smile out there for the next
piece for the next parcel. >> I can't imagine. Uh the the concept has uniformly been a redevelopment agreement that has uh carrots and sticks and the sticks will
induce us uh to to deliver this the the next phase as part of a followup on the rehab. >> Yeah. So it's already in the agreements. >> So if it's in the agreements already, what negotiating powers do we have? when
we spoke about find this piece as a 3% but we'll have the you know the the cherry on the top right the cream will come on the next few parcels right >> yeah because those are all negotiated so
>> but how can we negotiate if we already made a commitment >> what commitment >> you haven't made a commitment to the second >> phase there's no commitment for the other >> phases my question if >> the only commitment is that he has to construct the other phases. You you you
have um uh the administrator has tried to focus this conversation on the rehab because that's really what's on the table right now. And separately, he has induced his attorneys to include carrots and sticks in these in these legal
documents that induce us to follow through and come back to you effectively. We can't get to the next financing without coming back to you another time. >> No s. But are we committed to this firm? >> There's no other pilot whatsoever. >> But we committed to this.
>> So they're the designated redevelopers. So as you're as you know, once you're designated a redeveloper there and and in this case, they weren't just designated a redeveloper by us. They were first vetted and designated a redeveloper by the housing authority and
went through all that rigma roll and then was brought to us and we then >> designated. Fine. Got okay. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Anyone else would like to address the council please? >> You may ask one more question.
>> I would ask that it be gerine and limited. >> Okay. Thank you. Uh to Councilman Terrence Love. Just want to say the housing authority is a government entity and these are private investors. I'm not saying anyone deserves to be in
a public housing space if they're not entitled. But there is no question in my mind and in your mind that they will be much more efficient and scrutinizing of inconsistencies in people's income and habitation status.
I also want to ask the city, this was a developer that you chose, how many other developers did you meet? And the projects in Newark that you looked at, what was the rate of the tax pilot over there, was it also only 3%. And you said
it has to be under 10%, does it have to be under 10%, could it be 9.9%. Thank you. Again, this is a once ina-lifetime opportunity that the city is raising taxes because of their budgets and increasing costs. And I ask you, do you need to rush in a
3%. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, sir. Is there anyone else who wishes to address the council on this issue and this issue? Emily, >> see lights. >> Move to second. >> Roll call, please to close public hearing.
>> Councilman Monk, >> yes. >> Councilman Love. >> Councilwoman Melo, >> yes. >> Councilman Mayor, >> yes. >> Councilman Garcia, >> yes. Councilman Colz. >> Yes. And council president Sher. >> Yes. That was to close. Is there a
motion to accept the ordinance? Please move it. >> Second. >> Motion and second to accept. >> Councilman Monk. >> Yes. >> Councilman Love. >> Councilwoman Melo. >> Yes. >> Councilman Mayor. >> Yes. >> Councilman Garcia. >> Yes.
>> Councilman Colonz. >> Yes. >> And Council President Shear. >> Yes. The ordinance passes. Work to number four. Please propose ordinance 2530-26. An ordinance amending chapter 128 employer regulations to add article two worker payment protection and
anti-coercion. >> Is there a motion please to open public hearing? >> Move it. >> Motion and second. Thank you. We'll call. >> Councilman Monk. >> Yes. >> Councilman Love. >> Councilwoman Melo. >> Yes. >> Councilman Mayor. >> Yes. >> Councilman Garcia.
>> Yes. >> Counciloman Golz. >> Yes. And Council President Shar. >> Yes. Thank you. At this time, ladies and gentlemen, the council will be deliberating proposed ordinance 2530-26. Is there anyone who would like to adjust the council on this item and this item only?
>> One move to close. >> Second. There's a motion. There's a second to close public hearing. Roll call. >> Councilman Monk. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Melo. >> Yes. >> Councilman Mayor. >> Yes. >> Councilman Garcia. >> Yes. >> Counciloman Colonz. >> Yes. >> And Council President Sher.
>> Yes. Thank you. on the we open that was for public discussion. >> We need to move on the vote on it. >> We're voting on the ordinance. >> Yes, sir. Yes. >> Okay. Uh is there a motion please to accept? >> Move it. >> Second. >> Motion and second to accept the ordinance. Roll call.
>> Councilman Monk. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Melo. >> Yes. >> Councilman Mayor. >> Yes. >> Councilman Garcia. >> Yes. >> Counciloman Colonz. Yes. >> And Council President Sh. >> Thank you. Communications Roman numeral six on our agenda items 5 through 10. Are there any questions please on 5
through 10. Seeing your lights at this time motion please accept 5 to 10. Motion >> second >> and second. Thank you. Roll call. >> Councilman Monk. >> Yes. >> Councilman Love. >> Yes. >> Councilman Melo.
>> Yes. Councilman Mayor. >> Yes. >> Councilman Garcia. >> Counciloman Gom. >> Yes. >> And Council President Shar. >> Yes. Thank you. All matters listed here under considered to be routine in nature. Items 11 through 21. Are there
no questions please on 11- 21? See, is there a motion please to accept? >> Motion. >> Second. >> Second. Roll call, please. >> Councilman Monk, >> yes. >> Councilman Love, >> Councilman Melo, >> yes. >> Councilman Mayor,
>> yes. >> Councilman Garcia, >> yes. >> Councilman Colonz, >> yes. >> And Council President Shar, >> yes. Thank you. On 22 alone, is there a motion, please, to accept 22? >> Motion and second on 22. >> Councilman Monk,
>> was what's that? 23. >> 22. >> 22. >> Councilman Love. >> Yes. >> Councilman Melo, >> yes. >> Councilman Mayor, >> yes. >> Councilman Garcia, >> yes. >> Councilman Colon, >> thank Council President Shar.
>> Yes. Thank you. We work to resolutions remen seven on our agenda. Resolution 23 authorizes a closed executive session. Do we need closed? >> Mr. Fernandez, do we need no council present? >> Mr. Mayor, sir, >> none at this time. >> Members of the council. Very good. If we
could go on, please 24 through 31. Are there any questions, please, on 24 through 31? Councilman Mayor. >> Um 26. >> On 26, please. Yes, sir. Your question, sir. the just under a million dollars is for planning and preparation for
underneath that overpass and coming out of the $6 million that we reapproved at the last meeting. >> Yeah, this is um actually done through the state. They're the ones that are kind of dictating this actually. >> We actually uh rebid it and this is the
second and the state's required we award it for the project. >> But is it coming out of that 6 million or is this additional? It's coming out of the six million. And uh number 30, page nine. I think it's just the clerical. >> Say that again. >> Number 30. Page nine.
Number 30. Page nine. I think the dates may be >> Oh, the dates are off. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, can we just correct the dates on the record and then we'll make that notable from there.
So this is this is what happened is >> it's a renewal. Yeah, I guess. >> Yeah. Which resolution? >> It's it's resolution number 30. It's it's page is it the second page? >> No change. The term of this agreement should begin
on January 1st, 2024. So whatever it should be changed to. >> So So one is for 2024, then one is for 2025 and one is for 2026. We're going to assure that every resolution has the
corrected date. One resolution for 2024, one for 2025, and one for 2026. So the part the housing authority was delayed in giving us the resolutions. So we don't we don't execute a contract until they give us their resolutions. So that's why we're doing three of them at
once. Last year, not last year, in 2022, uh we did the 2023, we did 2022, 2023. So we'll make sure that every resolution has the correct yield. >> That is for 30 specific. >> That's for 30. 30 is for >> Susie. That's okay. We can accept the
the count the business administrator's comment verbally and considered to be effectively a change on the resolution. >> Yes. Yes. >> Very good. We think so. Um Councilman Mayor, that's it. Thank you. >> I have another light. Councilman Monk,
is that you? >> Yeah. Thank you. I had a question also on 26. the the process the the bidding was done through the city, right? How do you get to a million bucks? I just >> we bid it out more than once by the way.
This was the best number. >> But there are no proposals attached. It says there that >> What do you mean? >> We're list of proposal. We're down. No. Did anyone else bid on this thing? There's no attach. Usually usually get an attachment of who bid on this thing.
I just can't get my head around this. A million dollars for design and construction manip. But this is the wrong backup. Yeah. So, we have a letter from the letter I have >> from DCA that says to move forward with it. But you're looking I know what
you're looking for the responses to the bid. >> All right. Who bid? How many people bid on this thing? >> Uh, it's not on the resolution. >> No. >> It's usually on the resolution. >> Let me see. The city bid it four times and only Kier
submitted for both rounds of bidding. >> So I just got that from the engineer. >> So that's why they didn't put anybody else. >> Four rounds of bidding in collaboration with the DCA and that's why the letter
is in the back. Okay. >> Are there any other questions on 24 through 31? May we have a motion please to accept item >> so move >> 31 with exceptions and changes being
made to 30 as per our legal counsel. There is a motion. Is there a second please? >> Second. >> Motion and second. Roll call please on 24 through 31 as amended. >> Councilman Monk. >> Yes. >> Councilman Love. >> Yes. >> Councilman Mayor. >> Yes. >> Councilman Garcia.
>> Yes. >> Councilwoman Colom. >> Yes. >> And Council President Sher. >> Yes. Thank you. Roman numeral aid on our agenda ordinance for introduction and first reading number 32 proposed ordinance amending the designation of restricted parking for disabled persons
by nurtures license plate numbers the motion please to accept for setown for second and final reading at our meeting of June 4. >> Motion and second roll call please. >> Councilman Monk. >> Yes. >> Councilman Love. >> Councilman Mayor.
>> Yes. >> Councilman Garcia. >> Yes. Councilman Colonz. Yes. And council president Shar. >> Yes. Thank you. Roman numeral nine, please. Payment of bills. Are there any questions on the bills? Seeing none, is the motion the bill to accept the bills, please? >> Motion.
>> Second. >> Motion second. Roll call, please, on the bills. >> Councilman Monk. >> Yes. >> Councilman Love. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Melo. >> Councilman Mayor. >> Yes. >> Councilman Garcia. >> Yes. >> Counciloman Komz. Yes. And Council
President Shar. >> Yes. Thank you. Administrator's report, Mr. Fernandez. >> Not at this time. >> You sure? >> Well, we're actually going to lock you and Councilman Monk in a room together and see who comes out.
>> Hours we spend on >> Mayor's Report. Mr. Mayor, sir, >> I'd like to take this opportunity to congratulate our head of DPW, Mr. Wfredo Bay. his son just graduated I believe today from law school. Was it yesterday from law school?
>> Congratulations. >> Wow. >> I also wanted to share on the record that we recently um invested in a study of random surveys and we have found that nine out of 10 people tend to at least disagree with one person. Thank you.
And that's on a high note ladies and gentlemen. Besides, this council appreciates the tremendous efforts as proved tonight by the administration and by the mayor and by Mr. Fernandez. And I don't think that uh what occurred
tonight with the approvals uh for Spear Village should go without proper notice and and regard. This is indeed an historic day for the city of Paic and proves to be even more so under the mayor's guidance and leadership. Is there a motion to adjourn, please?
Motion second. Call please to adjourn. >> Councilman Monk. Yes. >> Councilman Love. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Melo. >> Yes. >> Councilman Mayor. >> Yes. >> Councilman Garcia. Yes. Counciloman Cologne Mont. Yes. And Council President Shar. >> Yes. This meeting is adjourned. Thank
you.