[Music] good evening for welcome everybody to the February 27 2024 meeting of panic Town Council Miss Marsh in accordance with the requirements of New Jersey open public meetings act notice that this meeting was included in the annual meeting notice which was filed in the office of the Township Clerk posted on the bulletin board in the municipal building publishes a legal notice in the Suburban trans and Daily Record newspapers and distributed to all persons requesting notice in accordance with Township policy wow it's like I just heard that all right please join me in the Pledge of Allegiance followed by a prayer and a moment of thanks for individuals serving our nation all right to the United States of America and to the rep for it stands one nation under God indivisible liy and justice for all most gracious Providence we ask that you bless this governing body with an abundance of wisdom and understanding so that every deliberation will result and actions which will promote the common good and the general welfare for all of the people of banic Township amen amen amen well set all right will the clerk please call the vocal Mr Dy Mrs Florence Lynch here Mr Cole Mrs Russell here mayor herd here all righty trying to flip my page here no presentations for this evening at this time are there any reports or comments from any of the volunteers serving our community seeing none sorry I can't see it behind the pole there hi okay next on the agenda is public comments this public comment period will be limited to a total of 30 minutes an additional period for public comment is reserved later in the meeting individuals are requested to limit their questions and comments to 3 minutes if anybody wishes to address the council please wait to be recognized come to the microphone and provide your name for the record sorry come on up I was looking at something else I do apologize so my name is Donna McGovern hi Donna how are you very good thanks so the the issue that I have that I'd like to bring to light and hopefully we'll get a solution to this is the corner of Andrew's uh place and uh Kenny we've had some ious flooding you've all known I've sent you pictures I've emailed everybody so I'm sure you're all aware of it um so basically I have a couple of my neighbors are here tonight too to test to the issue and actually with the rain tonight if you drive past the corner you'll see that the floodings already started into the street and just when the water starts to go down it seems to us we're not the uh experts that these these storm drains and there are three of them one on our corner on Andrews one on Andrews and Kenny and across the street one of the other homes um that they're clogged it's more than just um water that's underneath it's it seems if you look there and if you go down keny a little further and look into the other storm drains they're very deep and you could see down where ours just now the water is just underneath the grate you could just well before today's rain it was anyway today's rain kind of just got rid of that so the issue that we're having is how can we get these things cleaned out or pumped out or I don't know I don't know what the answer is so we're looking for you guys to come up with a solution now we're there 15 years and I have never seen it like this and the Robinson across the street have been here 25 years and she attested the same thing that has never been this bad and it has gotten progressively worse I mean uh through the years the rain heavy rain would come down and it would flood but over maybe half an hour maybe an hour it it gradually would go into the storm drains and it would be gone well it has gotten worse and worse and worse to the point where we have lakefront property yeah not looking for that so what we're doing we're here to say you know help us clean these out do something to um just so that the water doesn't stay in the street and I was afraid it was going to freeze and then because the water went totally across from one corner to the to the next and across the street you'd have a skating rink in that and the school is there and the kids drive by all the time and it's just it would just be a really bad Hazard and so yeah it's definitely I actually ran past pass it uh this morning and I saw that it was down which was great unfortunately it's been a very rainy you know Season uh December and January but it's it's the number one thing for DPW to do once the water starts going down so we can get in there and actually check it out and you know come up with a solution Adam would you like to add anything yeah as as we've spoken about on on a few occasions the challenge is it's not pipe storm water infrastructure it's it's it's a dryw correct so in order to evaluated it can't be full of water and the challenge is once it's not full of water anymore uh DPW is going to go in inspect it if maintenance needs to be done it will be done exploration is being undertaken to determine if there's anything that could improve the situation can make them deeper they don't see that's that's it's it's being everything's being reviewed and explored but until it can be physically inspected to your point if there is an issue that's causing the infiltration of the water into the soil to be slowed if that's addressed maybe that improves it as the mayor pointed out 17 inches of rain in a two-month period with nothing on the trees to soak up the rain is never happened before in recorded rainfall history so it did make it work worse for sure but it has constantly been that way it's just gotten to the point where something correct and and the exacerbation of the discharge through the the Sun Pumps causes additional problems so with the addition of approximately 12,000 gallons an hour of water that definitely creates a challenge on the street so with the Confluence of all those things as soon as there's a situation where it can be inspected it it will and and if there's action that can be taken there's few people that would like the water off the street more than the township and the public works department they they don't like it there either because as you pointed out if it did create an icing condition we were ready to go with a huge amount of salt which comes at a significant expense to have to clear all that that ice yeah um at so at what point can we determine how dry it has to be I mean you know like like was going really good until today and now all of a sudden you know we're right almost back uh well not quite back as bad as it was but if it continues to rain it will be and remember to put in context too I mean we have to figure this out 100% DPW knows about it we know about it we've had multiple conversations about this but just to make sure we put it in context you know it was the most rainy season in December and January so much so that the town had two major flood events as well and there where people lost you know belongings in their home because of that so it's a horrible situation and it's amazing that that much water is on your street which is over there um but there's got to be a way that we could figure something out and hopefully it's just clogged I mean knock on wood that would be the best solution that's what we're feeling as well we need to get in it because there's a tree on each corner so if there's roots that are down there that are doing it or leaves or muck or whatever like I said there 15 years and I know they've not been cleaned I don't know what the process is or if there's a schedule I I really don't know I'm just saying that as far as we know um it it's it appears for us that it's really clogged and so no matter what unless we unclog it the water's just going to stay there we're going to get in there we're going to figure this out some is there a schedule I don't know do you know how many Su pumps are going into the storm water do I know in the town I no so so yours are going directly into the well they all go into the street which dra direct lined in actually conned underground that's the see that I think might be part of the problem right so not only is it raining but you also have M are pumping into that same area it's different for everybody though if you go down Kenny towards the end where the rest of the storm drains are they're clear there's not even a puddle if if it if it pleases the council um just before we kind of lose control of this as it was said there's different situations in different areas p storm water infrastructure is very different than a drywall so having the some pump piped into pipe storm water infrastructure is less of an issue if there's enough gravity and the outflow area doesn't get over full so if it pleases the council my recommendation would be that you just simply direct we continue to stay on top of this and at the first opportunity we get inspect it when will that be mother nature is going to have an impact on that and I don't know what will or won't happen with the rains but unfortunately that is the solution that is available at this time as soon as they can get in there let's make sure gpw gets in there I'll be looking every day so so I let's let's keep our fingers crossed and you know blow on the rain please thank you for your patience thank you yes come on up I need you to come up to here please I appreciate that all just state your name hi Harold Bolton I live on H Kenny Place uh 15 to be precise um uh I just wanted to make you aware of two other uh fact facts of information so I looked at the flood CT that was done on my property when I purchased it in 2015 it shows that our properties are in flood zone X which is outside of the 5ye 500e flood event so it's highly unlikely even if we all did have basements pumping into that area that it would create the sort of an issue um and um the other piece of information is my neighbor who's to the left of me who's on Washburn but on the corner of where Washburn meets Kenny U did make me aware that the township did put cones in front of his house and they uh noticed that part of the front of his lawn had collapsed uh into the ground almost like a sinkhole type of event and they said that that is an underwater drainage pipe that is uh cracked and it's not allowing water to to trade between the different storm drains that's what he told me I'll tell you what we'll take a look at it and if that in fact is it that'd be perfect because then we found the problem it's it's different it's different systems but okay there there's some that's piped and some that's dry got and that's consistent with kind of all over town I just wanted to make youw that yeah we would love to have the pitch but we're really flat which is great for bike riding but bad for stb come on up my name is Patrick da s k he plays pton BLS New Jersey um we have two pumps going into our drain from our basement uh this month the month before and the month before that they've been running nonstop uh just to clarify so December January and then Fe February okay all right so each pump is an industrial pump it's not a pump you buying Home Depot oh so you're the reason why this thing is done just kidding it's 4,900 and 20 gallons an hour per pump per pump wow that's a lot of so I keep my neighbor dry my pump is running correctly am I incorrect you Patrick doesn't pump I'm in big trouble yeah if I if my power goes out I flood her I flood the neighbor across the street I flood everybody so I I just want to make you sure make sure that the the board is aware of this between the two bumps I pumped 9,840 gallons an hour out wow all right that's 24 hours a day all right that's during the rainy season and that was dece it was December January part of February okay when the street drains are backed up with leaves and it has nowhere to go the children have nowhere to get home they have to go around the street either that or they have to walk through water or on somebody's lawn and you know it's it's kind of a an ugly situation you know when I say I have two industrial pumps I can't buy these at Home Depot I have to go to an industrial pump supply store they're $1,600 a piece I keep them running all the time I don't mind for my neighbors I I'd rather keep their basements dry toe uh but this year I could not due to the backup inside the drains in the street and storm drains in the street there was no way to put that water anywhere but in the street and then it comes back onto your lawn soaks your lawn and it goes back into your basement so it's a reoccurring event mhm now we did notice this was our first year we've noticed all three storm drains on our Corners were clogged now I was there when they picked up the leaves they did not clean out the drains they did not clean out the storm drains all right they went over the storm drain pushed the leaves pretty much packed them into the storm drain now I'm not saying it's their fault that share what they did but I don't think they realized the damage that we have living now we live between Hillview mhm and the high school two of the flattest fields of water of bodies of water that you scho did you see how much water the high school had in the back that whole field was flooded you should have seen my basement yeah so I mean now if this keeps on going on my Foundation is cracked due to water pressure coming up the enre Foundation of my house is cracked due to water pressure coming up I'm either going to have to do one or two things I'm going to have to back fill my basement take everything out put it in the garage that means my heating my water heater y all the stuff down there I have to put in the garage and I would say that would go for my neighbors as well because if I stop pumping they're full of water and and you know everything they just replaced can be kiss goodbye again yeah so you know I mean I'm trying my best I've never once spoke up about it I've never asked for a nickel for electricity for it it cost us $500 the one month and 400 the second month that was uh December and February December and January that's 900 in electric for a ranch yeah for a ranch and I don't even have a pool if you want I could make a pool fill the pool real quick too yeah but I mean this is all groundwater yeah this is all groundwater and it's all damaged to my house and yeah you could see I mean just go over by the dog park you can see how high that water is and unfortunately because of panic I mean it's I know it's it's flat land and we're actually on top of an aquifer and you could literally map like the the river that's underground and it literally is going from uh if you look at by the dog park and you kind of cut across town you'll literally see where it hits on Tilly where it hits on Park where it hits on Cameron you'll see four houses that are pumping out and nobody else is I mean you could literally map this as you know with all these heavy rains that have been happening all the houses that are pumping if you had an aerial you would actually see it's unfortunately just one of the things of aqu Quantic we're literally sitting on a lake yeah two School fields we would soak ex so I mean you know my neighbors I love my neighbors I'll do anything for them I wouldn't ask a nickel for them but what I would ask the town was please clean well it is prior it's priority we got to get in there we have to make sure they're not clog clean and and figure something out I mean it's 100% priority we've talked about run off I know the runoff is the river I believe uh I think what do you mean runoff the runoff for that dra for that street drain would be the river wouldn't it you would be able to talk to that some of them are not piped infrastructure meaning some of them are just dry Wells and where are those dryw you don't momy asking it's it's just a it's just a tank in the ground that takes the water off of the street during a rain event and it percolates in a lower level of town right it doesn't it doesn't because there's nowhere to run the water to because of gravity okay you can't you can't pump storm water deep he won't let you do it okay cuz we weren't sure of that but yeah so there there's that's one of the challenges some of the infrastructure is dry Wells and some of it is piped so the dry Wells if you get 15 lb you got a 10 lb bag you got a prop yeah but maintenance is key and as the mayor said No it's it's we understand it's we had to come up here and express our opinions about it because totally understand uh it's not fair to our neighbors I mean I don't mind pumping I don't I don't mind paying for it I don't mind pumping it out uh like I said but you know I not everybody has I mean they you buy a pump from Home Depot I'm beaten it four times they buy a quarter horsepower I got 3/4s running yeah I'll keep mine and theirs dry I can keep all three of my neighbors dry you know if I'm allowed to pump water but if the water's constantly circulating back in through the ground water which it is it comes in through my lawn Jill's lawn my neighbor's lawn and it circulates back in through the ground let's keep our fingers crossed for a drier spring and for everybody absolutely let me just are are you done sir and theas is because Jill no blet I'm sorry cuz I know you um I I live in a house that was my parents house so I have experience with the neighborhood for decades and um it's never been like this so that's why I think we're all thinking something's wrong it's never been this way we've lived through many many many floods and many high water tables and I can't say anything more than my neighbors have already very articulately expressed but just that it's a very unusual event cuz it usually it's flooded before no doubt when there's been a high water table but it has gone down relatively quickly it has not been this prolonged Agony where you know the streets flooded and for me unfortunately I I think I'm at the heart of it because I'm right at the end of the driveway is where the big flood occurs and I especially when it's cold when it cold that's what we were really worried about an ice skating rink right there that's exactly what it was and we there was a couple days my daughter and I we had walked to school we're very lucky we're close it's not it's good exercise but it's still it's to get out of to do other things like go to work and those things becomes more of a challenge so I just wanted to share that it's unusual event it has not ever been this way um so there's something weird there's something wrong and that's why I think we're all like this is very unusual it's not how it's been in any other high water table and let's face it we're in b if we've had a lot of high water tables and a lot of flooding and so I just wanted to add that that it's unusual so I appreciate your attention to the matter and again as as soon as we can get some dry weather out there and it starts going down we're going to get in there DPW it's priority get in there and and start figuring out hopefully I mean quite frankly let's keep our fingers crossed that it is clogged because then we can provide a solution to the problem so I'm just curious though is there any way cuz I think someone said there it was a dry well is there any way for not to be that that it could go cuz actually there's a sign on that particular sewer I don't know if it's on your sewers or not but that says empties to a stream but evidently it doesn't so I don't know it may be just a standard head unit for an inlet I don't know that's main I think for pollution yeah to keep people from dumping cooking oil and other things right right well that makes sense I yeah the the the engineer is exploring every option uh the problem is gravity okay that's the problem as was pointed out it's it's a spot that is really really low spot yeah and and I appreciate your comments about the history but we've never so to give context there was 13 in of rain plus or minus from January 1st to November 30th in 2023 in the last 2 and a half months there's been over 18 so although I agree 100% this has never happened based upon our review of historical rainfall this has never happened it is an extraordinary circumstance that is greater in duration and quantity than even Irene yeah from a groundw perspective Irene you had heavy 11 in in August that was a crazy event that happened over a short period of time this is a prolonged period of extraordinarily High it just won't stop that's the problem it just won't stop have it again tonight all right hopefully it will now so let's focus on that anybody else sir good evening Paul mailor um also just to to the point these folks have made uh this is one of the reasons why overdeveloping 60 Sunset will also worsen that problem uh following the January 23rd Town council meeting I took the time to listen to the official recording what I heard was disconcerting uh not from the public as in each case they were completely accurate with their comments about our library uh but what was dis uh disconcerting was that despite a a clearly stated point of order mayor heard abruptly and inappropriately cited or ended the 30-minute comment segment at about 25 minutes he then declared much of what he had heard to be disinformation giving him the benefit of the doubt I can only conclude that he has been poorly informed about the goings on at library trustee meetings the following is the text moving on from uh a February 23 email that I sent to councilwoman Russell in an effort to support our great Library I thought it might be helpful to summarize my observations of Wednesday night's Library trustee meeting Township resident and prominent Township architect Jim catillo presented exciting plans for reimagining the library footprint as the original designer of the building that beautifully represents the township character Jim's plans were well received both by the board and the more than 50 residents in attendance Jim added that upgrades for state-of-the-art electronics for example while not included in his scope of work provide an opportunity to bring our library up to the latest standards for safety efficiency and well-being that suggestion is the kind of thinking we're hoping for as the new board considers how best to spend the tax allocation afforded by law to our library we are also delighted to hear councilwoman Russell's support for an outdoor events facility as described by a res president during the comment segment it's yet another example of the kind of innovative thinking we're hoping for uh from her and from the new trustees newly minted board president Christina White however ended last Wednesday's meeting seeking to again claw back funds from library services to the municipality for purposes she couldn't or wouldn't explain she then refused to honor a Bonafide 2020 three trustee vote to fund the library capital budget inappropriately deeming it a straw poll she unwisely added you don't budget for a rainy day attempting to support taking money from the library new trustee Jason Peller cautioned the board to quote be compliant with the state law he was later assured by a resident that there's no state law requiring a library board to return money to their municipality in fact State Library officials would encourage our trustees to spend all the library money allocated to the library for the library we also heard at that meeting from a resident Who provided State Library statistics for six other surrounding libraries proving that the millage allocation to our library is proportionate to those surrounding communities in every case each of those libraries spend all of their allocation for Library services in addition truste Museo reported that of the 23 34 Municipal libraries in New Jersey no more than six have ever sent money back to their municipality six out of 234 in the entire history of New Jersey the reason is that the law to take money back was actually intended to provide for very wealthy South Jersey communities whose residential values provide too large a millage rate for libraries to adequately utilize certainly Panic Township doesn't fit in the same income or residential property value category as Avalon New Jersey for which the law was written the comments Wednesday night from a former Library staffer were filled both with emotion and indicative of an ongoing challenge readily resolved she spoke of her frustration at having been dedicated to her work but leaving because she and apparently other staffers are paid less than the minimum standards set by the New Jersey State Library it seems it certainly seems in congruous that we would have so much pride in our library but not enough to pay our staffers at least the minimum standards as board President White observed there is currently a $500,000 reserve for Capital Improvements at the library however her conclusion that the current Reserve amount will suffice leaves out several key items the total Capital plan is actually more than $800,000 and that doesn't include the following important considerations to ensure the safety health and well-being of our treasured Library one a new facility that would greatly contribute to new and exciting Library events two the $210,000 estimate in scope of work provided by architect cillo doesn't include the following additionally desirable enhancements refurbishing bathrooms improving the lighting and appearance of the meeting room stateoftheart art electronics for staff and patrons alike repair or replace the fountain plans for improvements to be suggested by Library interiors and organization the libraryies used in the past and to employ them to implement recommendations number three re-engineering the parking lot for safety before repaving given the many board discussions regarding parking lot safety it would be unwise for the board to Simply repave with the library taking over responsibility at the Township's Direction it is incumbent on the board to re-engineer the lot for better traffic flow and pedestrian Crossing savings such as with handicapped access and then repave complications that may occur with roof repair while it's appropriate to move forward with repairing the roof a word of caution leaking roofs often have substantial substr substructural problems so please be sure that when taking the lowest bid the scope of work includes whatever problems might be found once the old roof is removed should the substructure damage be extensive the additional cost would be considerable while bringing my book donations to the Friends uh for the friends upcoming book sale I noticed missed a significant leaking problem at the front corner of the library entranceway so new gutters should also be added to the roof replacement job so it's easy to consider that these foundational updates will bring the capital Improvement budget at the library to well over a million dollar thereby negating any justification for taking additional libraries additional dollars from the library I'm sure there are other excellent ideas for continuing to improve our treasured Library uh contained in a resident poll that was done for the long-term plan and also a word about the obvious Discord exhibited at uh between board members uh at the last trustee meeting they stem from two very serious points of contention one our professional librarian whose Stell leadership provides for a great local institution felt the need to warn councilwoman Russell personally and the board collectively that should the verbal abuse she has suffered over the last many months continue she would take legal action two the New Jersey state library's position on taking money back from a Municipal Library is very clear they consider the millage amounts to be the minimum that a library should spend on the LI uh uh that the municipality should spend on the library the minimum so I look forward to working with you with the town with your Town Council colleagues and the library trustees towards helping Debbie and the friends of the libraries to keep uh our library the pride pride of the township thank you for your time thank you okay unfortunately we've hit our 30 minute time period so as previously noted additional period for the public comment is reserved later in this meeting next on the agenda is manager report Mr Brewer thank you mayor um within my report I have four items three of which I will take as a group uh as discussed previously D requires uh three Oran es be implemented to comply with our storm water management permit timely that we're talking about storm water management yeah uh those ordinances a revision to the general storm order ordinance salt storage regulations which is new as well as uh an ordinance regulating the removal of trees and the replacement of trees those ordinances are scheduled for public hearing and potential adoption and the last or the fourth item on my report is the uh recommendations is being made for the council's consideration to award the concession provider for the 2024 season at PD Park uh competitive Contracting process was utilized which necessitates waiting and averaging sheets and a whole lot of bureaucracy articulated by Administrative Code which is included as an appendix to my uh memor there's any questions on my report I'd be happy to answer them otherwise that's it is this the same guy that had it last year this is the incumbent for the last two years correct and also the highest uh contribution provider financially is it the only income the only person again receed three um based upon the review of the competitive contract Review Committee this was the recommendation because of experience as well as the financial contributions High than they did good last year cuz I know in the years before that both it wasn't the best service they did okay challeng the biggest challenge is not disimilar to the restaurant industry is is Staff you know we see some of our most popular restaurants in town sometimes shutting down because they can't get staffed that was the biggest challenge you that's just as long as they're getting better and doing the best they can correct okay Cal did you have any questions no I did not right now Melissa I just wanted to make a comment that I was surprised um but pleasantly surprised that we have now this tree removal and replacement ordinance that we have to do I was surprised that we didn't have something in place before and uh I think it's contributed to problems in the past by not having this ordinance so I'm glad that we're doing it I know it was sted M there you go okay how how soon would we put these into effect if they're adopted tonight uh 20day period based upon State's me any other questions nope no all right next agenda public hearing on ordinance number 202 24-3 Miss Mark ordinance number 20243 is an ordinance amending chapter 308 of the code of the township of panic and revising storm waterer management regulations are there any comments from the council just went over it no is there a motion to open this public hearing open can I get a second I'll second all in favor I if anyone in the audience has questions or comments on this ordinance please come to the microphone and identify yourself for the record okay seeing none is there a motion to close second all in favor is there a motion to adopt this ordinance I'll make a motion to adopt ordinance number 202 4-03 and I got a second I'll second yes roll call please Mr Dy yes Mrs Florence Lynch yes Mr Cole yes Mrs Russell yes may herd yes next on the agenda is public hearing on ordinance number 202 24-4 Miss Marsh ordinance 20244 is an ordinance of the township of panic amending the township code to establish njde mandated regulations for privately owned salt storage are there any comments from Council no none is there a motion to open to public hearing I'll make that motion I get a second all in favor I I if anyone in the audience has questions or comments on the ordinance please come to the microphone and identify yourself for the record isn't this exciting guys okay seeing none is there a motion to close the public hearing can I get a second second all in favor I is there a motion to adopt this order [Music] I'll make a motion to adopt ordinance number 20 24-4 I'll second roll call please Mr Dy yes Mrs Florence Lynch yes Mr Cole yes Mrs Russell yes mayor herd yes next on the agenda is public hearing on ordinance number 20 24-5 Miss Marsh ordinance 2020 405 is an ordinance amending chapter 330 of the code of the township of banic and establishing tree removal and repacement requirements thank you are there any comments from Council no is there a motion to open the public hearing I'll make that motion second all in favor I if anyone in the audience has questions or comments on this ordinance please come to the microphone and identify yourself for the record how are you yes I do how about that that's awesome Mary kman um could you tell me what establishing tree removal and replacement requirements have you already made it and what does it say Adam the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection created new requirements to the township storm water management permit okay and one of them was that we Implement an ordinance regulating the removal and replacement of trees so the ordinance articulates what homeowners can do and can't do and what needs to be replaced and when uh essentially homeowners can remove one healthy tree per year or up to three and five years and they can do so without a permit but it really attempts to manage the clear cutting or overdevelopment of things if one were to buy a lot and then clear cut all of the trees it just establishes procedures and requirements for the removal of trees so if somebody does do a clearcut that's in violation of this of that ordinance correct is that also there's there's an enforcement component to it and a requirement to replace trees and okay so do you know what the requirement is if you take down a tree to replace a tree like is it immediately or a year or it's is that part of the open it's articulated in the ordinance okay is all Rel there's a copy right there okay great so all this is really important to have yeah it's to prevent the clear cutting and also just you know we can't just take all of our trees out of our backyard we have to if that needs to be done then you have to replace a certain amount of trees and and everything's in there relative to the size of the tree as well but if you have a tree that is dead you know you can take that down that that's a safety hazard right right right and then also there's going to be the trees going to be planted through the grant through and that's coming in the spring right correct that's still trct and we also replanted 450 trees um in the floodway we got a grant for that for a couple years ago okay and they're actually doing fabulous we're almost ready to take the the protection uh off the bottom them taking off already yeah yeah getting thank you very much you're welcome I know anybody else no where am I is there a motion to close a public hearing I'll make that motion can I get a second Melissa all in favor I is there a motion to adopt this ordinance I'll make a motion to adopt ordinance number 202 24-5 I'll second uh roll call please thank you everybody M thank you Mr Dy yes Mrs Florence Lynch yes Mr Cole yes Mrs Russell yes mayor herd yes there are no orces for introduction o a big one all right next on the agenda is resolutions Miss Marsh beginning with resolution R 202 2471 confirming the designated memberships in the Panic Township Fire Department 20 2472 approving change order number two for the route 23 sewer project increasing the contract with PNA contractors of Colonia New Jersey by $1 5,198 13 to a revised contract price of 5 million did I read is that right five yes revised contract price of $5,673 6739 3881 2024 73 awarding a contract for the concession operator for the Panic Valley Park Lake concession stand to sha Leonardo doing business as the Joshua tree for the total contribution amount of $2,875 in accordance with the request for proposals 20247 4 calling upon New Jersey Department of Transportation commissioner Diane gutier scetti to facilitate a study of the route 23 Corridor in an effort to improve safety 202 2475 authorizing tax office refunds overpayments or cancellations 202 2476 authorizing release of designated escrow deposits 202 2477 approving payment of the itemized claims is set forth on the February 23rd 2024 Bill list and 2018 female el elevation escrow list an R20 2478 authorizing an application to the Mars County Community Development block rant program thank you are there any comments from on the resolutions from Council yeah on number 72 it's a net deductor contract correct this is an addition there was a previous change order one was a reduction of approximately 39,000 this is an an addition of 15,000 and change based upon finding big remnant of an old road right this just has them both here so got it okay yes tracks it in each Kyle you have anything I'm good Dave I'm good Melissa I'm good I was just curious who actually puts together are the grant the the the cdbg grant is specific to whomever really oversees that kind of project so this one was prepared by the township engineer the engineer and that that is a draft as of a certain date it's expanded upon in the final version Tom okay cbbg cdbg Comm like a BL that sounds like something else around now that smells funny all right U I'll make a motion to approve or resolutions 2024 d71 through 202478 I get a second roll call Mr Dy yes Mrs Florence Lynch yes Mr Cole yes Mrs Russell yes may hert yes there are no I for discussion no report or notices Council report and announcements next on the agenda is Council reports and announcements Mr Dy thank you Mr Mayor um my only uh committee did not meet the sh committee did not meet they affil didn't have anything to discuss so next time I know we're going to discuss the new ordinance that just came out um congratulations to the new Junior firefighter that jumped on board thank you very much for volunteering your time and helping out and I understand there's been a couple high school students that have gotten really cool Awards and track and wrestling and stuff congratulations to you very well done thank you thank you for making Panic proud and we do live in a great town Mr herd do we do that's it thank you sir uh next councilwoman Florence Lynch I also want to say congratulations to the new Junior firefighter member Paul St how do you say it say Paul Paul Paul sto studo congratulations uh to him um we also some of us went to the polar plunge this last weekend put on by the FBLA and that was a success and uh I didn't go in the water but it was next time it was nice um the memorial for Jay wasnik was uh very nice so kudos to everyone that put that together very well attended um the senior citizen advisory committee they met um we welcomed a few new members that committee now is pretty much full uh Nancy L Ed jenish and Debbie Kio I don't know if I said that right but those are our new members and they picked um they voted on their chair Bernice sour co-chair which is a co-chair Debbie Duca and a secretary Debbie Kio um so they're just working on a couple of things there's going to be a senior event that that um parks and wreck is handling setting up um as far it's a a senior ID event it'll also be for Veterans for um veterans and seniors so they're trying to get the word out on that um that event is April 17th from 10: to 2: so uh that'll be up probably on I I believe they're going to put it up on our website and they've been doing some communication or getting a flyer ready and that'll be going out I don't know if it's actually been out there yet but um I do have to say some of the communications have been better uh through I guess Parks and Rec started a well I guess they always had it but but they've been putting they have a new uh Facebook page out um that through Facebook they were putting a lot of stuff out and the community pass and you can set up for alerts and and the website's been updated so I so you know the seniors were talking about that that some of that has been um been great that they've been putting out more Communications and it's easier to find uh what else um our next meeting for the seniors is March 20th at 9:30 at the senior house um Economic Development advisory committee they are meeting tomorrow night at 700 p.m. and my flood committee is meeting Thursday the 20 9th at 700 p.m. other than that I don't have anything else thank you mayor thank you for that very comprehensive report I appreciate that Council M Cole uh I just wanted to let everyone know that art Schmidt uh from the tbsa a panic resident is being uh got an award from the association of environmental authorities congratulations for a outstanding commissioner award that award will be presented to Art on Wednesday March 13th in Atlantic City good for him it doesn't stink yeah um congratulation to Ryan chokar he's our new 400 meter group one state champion uh girls basketball team had a great season finished 16- 10 lost in the second round of the state playoffs to the number one seek Jefferson congratulations to Sophia clutcher she is the first female wrestler from pths that is going to be headed to Atlantic City for the state championship awesome uh like everyone said Jay's Memorial was uh very nicely done thank you to everyone that was involved in that uh like Melissa said FBLA chamber Polar Plunge was this past Sunday and congratulations to Paul our newest Junior fighter fighter firefighter and I just said Paul because I had no idea how to say as last have you ever considered being the announcer for uh the high school you got like that announcement voice I got to tell you no okay uh my report again councilman Russell Council woman woman you're striking out kid I'm telling you just say my name um I do want to I do want to say congratulations to uh Sergeant Jim DK F trolman Steve Nats and patrolman Brian am I going to say this wronge um they are being being wed the 200 Club of Morris County um and that's going to be at the Birch Manor on April 25th they um help save somebody at up in Cedar Crest with the water they did two people in the water search so that is April 25th at the Birchwood Menor I think I'm going to try to go um so if any of you guys want to go let me know um congratulations welld deserved um that's awesome it's 125 I think yeah oh I didn't take it out of the take it out of the list so yes so I'm I'm going to try I have to look at my schedule see if I can make it um rotary's doing a comedy night I think it's all sold out though uh Saturday the 2nd um Library they did award a bid to do the roof we awarded a bid um yeah still a lot of uh falsities going around face false things going around about this law that is indeed a law about return excess Library money um but it's good I think we got clear goals about what we are going to do and we hope to improve the library um what was that I said good yeah under it's good it is it's good we're actually um meeting tomorrow and have a special meeting to hire a library attorney because so many things go in as you know does abstain mean yes does abstain mean no like silly stuff and it's we waste a lot of time on silly stuff instead of just going and getting the work done I'm glad to see waste a lot of time I'm glad to see it's getting done I mean I know that the roof has been a problem for a while I don't understand why it hasn't gotten fixed but I'm glad you're there I'm glad things are getting actually done it's going to get done we're going to get a lot of stuff done and I'm excited but also speaking of the library because unfortunately we did had somebody quit like I explained last week and um it's tough people don't realize that these are volunteers and they get up and they make comments and and some it she just it's it's mean and some person screamed and yelled at at at us and you know in November and she just she actually she actually said she was scared So eventually she just quit so I would like to make a motion to replace her on the board um with Joanne mcshain we had all gotten a list do I have to give that a number Carol uh is that r what I need three people to tell me to put it on the agenda okay by me okay by me and we're putting the the youth for the yeah and I'd also like to add Jason GOC to a use lead these are both commissions which is why it we can do it why I'd like to make sure we have these things filed can I make a suggestion yes we can make one resolution for the library when you do it in the re y you do a separate resolution for each board right so if you want to do one for the library board right so R 2024 d79 yeah she can do it from the floor as long as there's support from the body without a documented future meeting and then a different one for the environmental Comm right and then I'd like to propose our 20248 to put Jason goldach a a youth leaz onto the environmental do I have a second I'll second that all in favor sorry I don't no hly she'll get there that was Council woman Russ counil woman Russell um you just see get it too you just move to and then who's second in them JD John okay all in favor wait Mr Dy yes Mrs Florence Lynch yes Mr Cole yes Mrs Russell they are heard yes motion carries both of them thank that was harder or easier than I thought I don't know I'm not sure um are you done making resolutions now no I so many um yes I am and congratulations to everybody and you're right this is a great town this is a great town we have we have great volunteers we have people who just want to do the best for the town and I think people have to realize what one person thinks is the best and another person thinks is the best it's okay to disagree it's not okay to get nasty about it agree agree again you want to come here come yell at me know so anyway okay that's it thank you thank you okay just have a few things uh I did owe everything that everybody said I do want to talk about Jay I mean Jay was a fabulous uh volunteer and like you were saying Miss Russell you know our Township is the way it is it's the culture it is it's the community it is because of the volunteers and people like J who put so much into this town especially with historic I mean uh he was Our Town Administrator at one point um he's done so much for this town he was uh you know citizen of the year at one point as well and uh he will definitely be missed um it was great to see the turnout there was a ton of people there and it was a beautiful day so uh we're going to miss you J from New York from from a club he used to go to in New York yeah he was he was head of an Irish Club out of York yeah I don't again something I wish I would have known beforehand cuz that could have been a very interesting conversation with Jay I remember he used to take the bus there right he would take the bus and then he'd come back yeah so we will miss you Polar Plunge was cold and I have to do a big shout out to Kay you know Kay she is 87 I believe she said she was and she got in that water she got all the in that water going out as far to the I got to tell you awesome talk about inspiring she went out there I tried to stay uh with her for as long as possible and then I had to tread water and get out cuz it was so cold but she did an awesome job um LED signs so I got this this was really interesting I want to give it to you um but you know some of the signs that we have that that do uh speed and whatnot this was just really neat I don't know if they had other ones or different ones that were less expensive but just something to keep in mind for putting around town cuz I know on my street I could use one everybody's always hitting those tabletops and going way too fast uh I don't know how we can change things like that but what are you going to do as well as LED signs can we talk to the county so the LED sign the blinking LED sign uh on the rail trail where rail trail and Jackson comes together it's working nobody's paying attention um and the other thing too is they're really tiny as far as the blink and I'm sure at night it's fine but during the day it just doesn't have like that one stop sign that we have that the red blinking you can tell day or night that thing's blinking but this during the day I don't know I I don't know if they could do some supplemental thing or something you know especially on the side coming into town where it's kind of like that if they can do something else it's just it doesn't seem like it's bar for the Walkers isn't there eventually going to be a bar that stops them I think on the trail not not on the cars bar that comes down it's just offset so you can't just go straight through like on a bike you got to kind of zigzag but it's not done yet so I hate driving up that hill yeah I got to tell you I sat there I pushed it but I'm still waiting people are still going and they just kept on going it's a but um you know just my thing uh we talked about the family thing for PV that's great uh I don't know what my other Chicken Scratch is here oh uh the mailboxes so is there just a go back one you know we had the snowstorm uh and unfortunately DPW you know hit a a couple of mailboxes and not on purpose I mean this is something that happens you know during things like that but I apologize for the interruption but just for clarification that this the snow hits the the snow right exactly sow hit the mailbox the mailbox comes out it's not like yeah I'm not saying DPW like took their truck and ran over the the mailboxes no W clarify that thank you it's just something that happens but I still want you know I know that we're in a a hard place here because you have the um post office that designates walking routs driving routes and they kind of tell where these things have to be um but there's got to be some kind of happy medium you know if if something was done even by accident I think that we should uh I think that we should at least do something now we can't put the thing back up and we can't have them move it because it's it's stated by uh by the post office but I would like to you know give them what what the amount of a post office box is 50 bucks 75 bucks I don't know what do you think about that I think it starts a bad president we never did it before we have a resolution that we don't that we don't correction and I don't know if anyone was around for this the the township did do it okay and then the code was changed to eliminate it right um because of the issues that surrounded it so wait a minute so Council changed it to eliminate it correct what when was that was when Dave was here before all our time yeah probably can we change it back it's so that's the question so just yeah for for the for the council's benefit and benefit record the the current code states that the township of panic um will not be responsible for damage done to any improvements in the right way including those impacted by snow plowing that was put in place by the governing body um that the governing body can change and go back to the way it used to be which was a fixed amount was designated upon confirmation that a box was damaged question then becomes what's the fixed amount um some towns some towns so title 59 uh indemnifies us against claims and has a process so you have to file a Tor claim notice if you want to file a claim against the township which is currently what any Resident has to do if they want to recover damages for a mailbox often they are denied by the insurance provider and then the option of the homeowner is to litigate I don't know what nobody does I don't know what most mailboxes cost but I did go take a look at some of the mailboxes that fell around me I think I I thought it was more but it was only three and a lot of them were either old or very thin poles with a big metal thing up top yeah so but yeah just just if you don't so if the council wants to consider it the mo the cleanest way to deal with this and what's most consistent with how it's approached previously by the township or by other municipalities is to set an amount upon confirmation of Public Works that it was damage or to continue with the current statement of we're not going to be responsible for the damage of things and if you want to recover anything file to if we think it's thing to do if we set an amount is it moving forward or the people that got their mailboxes KN down in the last storm could come to us yeah could we make you that is up to you you could you could set an ordinance that says you know it had to have happened in 2024 so you don't go forever somebody comes back to you if it's 5 years what if mine got knocked down last year yeah years ago some point you have to well has there been a lot of issues or qus from previous challenges retroactively documenting and proving that it happened and that it was in fact caused by the snow plow becomes a little bit of an issue some submitted a claim that's that may be a different story How about if it's a light post with a light on top I mean I where do we stop what are the other Poss I'm just talking about ma boxes so people are prohibited from putting improvements in the right of way if you notice going up I'll use Jacksonville as an example they have nice posts with lights on them that are about 15 18t off of the street for a reason it's not by accident um so other improvements I don't I would not recommend be considered for anything if the you know the the conundrum I think the council recognizes is the postmaster dictates whether you're a walking route or a driving route and if Snow's heavy and the township pushes it but that that that I think is a unique situation it's not consistent with any other Improvement right and it only happens in heavy snow and I don't I don't know what's our liability it opens a can of worms right now we have no liability we it could yeah I know I'm just leaning towards it's the right thing to do correct if if the council's again it was previously a policy in place the compensation was provided for individuals with mailbox were damaged and the Council made a decision to change that doesn't Montville or or who else around us does have a policy for that when I worked in Mel Township we had a policy where I think residents were sent $50 which generated interesting conversations that I personally had for those individuals that had $2,000 mailbox what you only send me 50 bucks this is an insult buy me a new mailbox right so no matter what you do there's always going to be an opposite reaction or or concern or consideration I still say well I still say if if our guys KN it down in a heavy snowstorm we should give them something I just think it's the right thing to do that's that's how I feel I mean how many how many times is it really going to happen I don't think a lot but again if you it's the right thing to do Dave what do you think an old I think it's the right thing to do what if it falls down every year cuz they just keep propping the same one up you know but like you said simplify it so yeah what if they just keep popping the same one up every uh every snowstorm yeah what what if they put the broker link back up with a 2x4 I I think we're going to I think we're going to how do we protect ourselves against somebody taking advantage of us you can't you can't that's what I'm saying I don't but is the reason we I know I know you weren't here but is the reason we changed it in the just because of mailboxes no it was I wasn't here I I I believe there was specific language and this is anecdotal from there was specific language about mailboxes to get out of the process of of I think that's right it was problematic I don't know exactly why but I know eliminating or moving away from that policy was a goal of the new ordinance yeah I mean it's not like they intentionally knock down people's mail boxes so I would kind of just say leave it as is and let's I mean it's not like they aim for them I just don't think that there's going to be a lot of them I don't think so either I just I'm just trying to figure out what made us change we don't want them plowing in the middle of the road so that mail now no there's I I personally I've had experience with towns one town I've served in this capacity in four communities one town provided towns file yeah all right so strw John what do you think leave it as is leave it as is [Music] Dave I don't care got to be on one side or the other I was I was going to say that but I'm I'm I'm picking a horse yeah I mean pick the you know what's the figure going to be that we it's not going to be that it's unknown 100 bucks well I mean the figure I so be what the council determined right and I I could do some research and come back to the council give him a 100 bucks and you know maybe the ambulance is going to take seven years out of B so is that your interested or not go ahead give me a 100 bucks oh we're doing 100 now well what before we put a number on it let's find out how much it is from home yeah we don't have to put a number on it we're just doing a straw pole and he's going to do some more research why don't you find out what the surround how much is a home how much isil and talk to who did it before and ask them what problems they came for that they had this ordinance but it's not it's not the mailbox it's the post that they break I doubt they're breaking the metal mailbox the labor is going to be the most expensive it's the labor the guy coming putting the bag of cement in the hole and you know atast why find out ordance and why they decided that they felt the need for that ordinance wouldn't that make sense who do you talk to Luigi board I'm not sure where we go there mailbox with dead think by saying not you know it's it's just being a good neighbor I mean by saying tough luck I'm okay with it find out what the surrounding towns are given yeah all right is is it acceptable to prepare as a discussion item at a next C me $70 $60 $173 $110 $24 $112 $449 that's a nice one no basic you know like7 48 I tell you I tell you what's going to happen we're going to say 75 bucks and we're going to get the same thing that Adam got mville you're kidding me right 75 bucks how do you want me to put up a mailbox for 75 hence leave it as it is think the whole first that's my humble opinion yeah whatever you want all right so come back I'll I'll schedule it for a discussion the first meeting in March oh talk about this again all right sir I am done officially next on the agenda is public comment if anybody wishes to address the council please wait to be recognized come to the microphone and provide your name or the record come on up yes um hello again hello again Mary K merman hey Mary um I need some clarification exactly as to what Kyle just said about the library and um I was at the February 21st meeting and a vet was there as the trustee as the lay is on for the school as I understand it is that the person you're talking about who you want to replace no so which trustee are we going back and for is it that is this comment yeah it's comment it's comment unfortunately so I can't ask a clarification as to generally you can make statements you can talk about you know concerns things like that but as far as like going back and forth between a council member something like that would be you know offline talk to her you know normal but not in a a setting like this so it's supposed to be for public comment Okay so so what is the may I ask what the you can ask you can ask the town clerk oh okay off at you can open the last the email that she sent us on Friday there you go it's in there you know what you can just wait till after the meeting and I'll have a discussion with you wait I want to find out how I can talk to the clerk and see the email go ahead you know better than me there you go an opah request yeah sure you