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Okay. Please join with me for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge to the flag of the United States of America and to the flag for its one nation

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with liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you. Welcome to our >> chair. I'm sorry. Um, Commissioner Hanley has joined us, too. >> Okay. Thank you. Um, thank you so much for joining us, everybody. Uh, please be advised this meeting is being recorded

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and broadcast live on YouTube. The file will later serve as a very public access channel throughout Plymouth County for further potential broadcasting. Okay. So, first on the agenda, we have um Mr. Troy Clarkson, excuse me, Dr. Clarkson from Brockton. a very good

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friend of mine for many many years as he is friends of uh most of us here. Uh he's going to be presenting today on uh handover citizens petition information update and regionalized services. Thank you.

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>> Thank you madam chair. I'm really honored to be here and thank you for asking me to attend uh as a former county administrator and as somebody who's worked in management here in Plymouth County for uh for nearly 20 years. The the chair just asked me to

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attend given some of the uh discussions that are occurring and particularly a town meeting article in handover about county government. I just wanted to just share some thoughts from my perspective as a veteran of municipal management of the value that the county brings to the

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uh communities in Plymouth County. I mean these are things that you have all discussed in your meetings for a very long time. But I think providing the perspective of someone uh who as a representative of three different communities in Plymouth County and of course as the former administrator uh

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the value that the county has brought to the member communities over the last several years. Uh I'll just give you a few examples. the Brockton City Hall, which I consider to be one of the most, if not the most stately and beautiful municipal building in Massachusetts, uh had not had fresh

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air in that building uh recirculating fresh air ever. Now, thanks to uh the work of the commissioners and the administrator and certainly Treasurer O'Brien, uh we partnered on a $14 million project and that building now

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for the first time has fresh air and and that means something. the people that work there and the people that visit there and do business there. Uh and that building will be we also replaced the roof because it was leaking. Uh and so that building will be preserved for another generation of Brockton citizens

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and and that's really important. We expanded put a 6,000 square foot addition on on the senior center. We uh fixed up parks and playgrounds in every ward uh in in the city. uh we were able to uh working with our federal partners

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but also using uh ARPA funds completely renovate the city's pool which for many residents in Brockton is the beach. It's the summer place where people can recreate. Um and and so from my perspective uh the the county has been a

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vital partner in our ability to uh to serve our residents. But I'll go a little beyond that. I think as communities, particularly here in Plymouth County, struggle with the rising costs of health insurance and pension costs and and employee costs and

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and maintenance cost and utility costs and all of those pressures that are really uh stressing all communities in in Massachusetts, but certainly in eastern Massachusetts and Plymouth County, the ability of the county uh of

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this organization to look to provide support through regionalization is just vitally important. I wrote a column recently. I read a column every week in a newspaper on the Cape where I live and and I I highlighted the fact that uh on

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Cape Cod there are 15 towns but 19 fire departments uh because the fire departments are funded through the water districts. And so the town of Barnstable itself has five separate and distinct fire departments with five chiefs and all of

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those uh apparatus. LA County has one fire department or hundreds of municipalities. And I use the fire service as an example because it was it was readily available to to

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make that comparison. Uh but I think it highlights the opportunity that existed when I was the administrator and still exists to really have the county be a hub of regional services. Uh in that column I talked about assessing uh which is something that has been looked at

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over the years I know by different boards of commissioners. Uh the software that assessors use is most communities is the same and the the processes that they use to value properties is the same. And so there are today, I think, tremendous opportunities to regionalize,

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for the county to continue to be a leader in in regionalization. And and so rather than speak specifically about the town meeting article in handover, I think my my purpose here today is just to highlight how vitally important the

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county is and and how it can continue to be uh a really important resource for the communities that it serves. And so it it uh really was my pleasure to be here today and talk about those things. I'm happy to answer any questions the commissioners may have, but I just I

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wanted to come and and speak as a as a satisfied customer of regional government, and I'm grateful for all of you uh for our ability to partner with you to do some important things. >> Great. Thank you so much. Do you have any questions, Commissioner Valenzola?

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>> Uh no questions. As always, a privilege to be with you, Troy. I certainly appreciate um all the work you've done in the county and for the county uh as the opera coordinator working with Treasurer O'Brien and of course my colleagues. It was a privilege to work with the city uh with the former mayor

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with the council um and everyone involved. I think you highlighted it and I just want to add some emphasis to it. At this level of government, we're able to collaborate. We're able to be responsive. We're local. Um we have each other's numbers. We're we're very

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reachable. And that's not to slight the state or slight our friends in other levels of government, but as it gets bigger, it becomes more difficult to be responsive and be nimble. Um, at this level, we're able to um and we're able to do that effectively. Um, so we

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certainly appreciate that. Um, I have no questions or comments. Um, you know, I was intrigued by this agenda item. Um, myself personally, I try not to overreact to what one um, malcontent select men in one town has to say about

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us. Um, maybe I'll file legislation to repeal the uh, acts of 1727 established in the town of Handover. I mean, you know, who can play at that game? So, um, I don't think I'm going to do that, but I I think it's unfortunate that the

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conversations being had. Um, but I have no doubt that that there are many in handover and many across the county uh who see our value, see the things that we do. Uh, candidly, we're older than Hanover, as I just mentioned, 1727, we're 1685. So, we've been around for

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400 years, we'll be around for 400 more. Uh, and always appreciate the opportunity to have robust discussions about what we do as a county. Thank you. >> Hi. Uh, is Mr. Hanley, uh, Commissioner Hanley online? He is chair.

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>> Thank you, Madam Chair. >> Well, first of all, my apologies for not being uh with you this morning. I have a 10:00 uh funeral up in the city of Quinsey. So, um sitting here uh listening to the comments of u the

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doctor, the good doctor, and uh I appreciate him coming out on your behalf, Madam Chair, to talk about our abilities. And I do appreciate Jared's um comments because I think he and I are sympotico on this. But you know in in terms of you know responses I think

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we've already started down the path with Treasurer O'Brien uh with WATD and I think he was able to let the public know that Plymouth County Commissioners and the Plymouth County Retirement Association two separate entities. Um

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the fact that Troy being a former um town administr and town manager in Hanover brings a little bit of credibility as to what his suggestions would be to educate the public. So I'd be interested in a strategy that you may offer us. Uh is it wise for us to attend

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the uh town meeting which I believe is the first Monday in May. Uh is this something we should do uh individually, collectively? Should we call the um moderator, the town manager to see if we should be in the audience to answer

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questions before there's a vote if we're allowed? >> I mean, I think town meetings are open for a reason. I I I think absolutely. uh one of the things that I know you have done collectively uh as you passed out the ARPA funds was visit those

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communities but I know that there's been a road show where over the years uh commissioners have attended different select boards and town meetings to to provide updates and I think that's that sort of engagement is always a good idea. uh most town meetings and I'm not

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sure if Hanover does this now uh but have a report from committee at the beginning of the town meeting and that's always an opportunity again to share the value of what the county does uh and and and maybe that's rather than take the art town meeting article itself head on

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have an opportunity to really just present the value of what the the uh the county does. I know you have a a spreadsheet that the the chair showed me recently and it lists each town in Plymouth County and the CARES money and the ARPA money that was distributed and

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that alone demonstrates what a gamecher it's been these last several years uh for all of the communities in Plymouth County. Uh but beyond that uh you know the other good things that uh that the county does and that's a message that I know you've told but it's a message that

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can and frankly should be told over and over and over again so that as select boards transition and new members come on they get an opportunity to see what the value of regional government really is. Uh I have read with interest your article recently on the um

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regionalization down uh on the Cape of uh firefighting. Is it something that you think would be uh a program that should be introduced uh implement? So, I think the possibilities there are

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nearly limitless and I don't think there's ever been a greater time than now because of those dynamics that I discussed a few minutes ago because the the cost pressures of health insurance uh the county does a great job with the Mayflower and Municipal Health Group in

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providing high quality relatively lowcost health insurance but the industry itself in Brockton we manage our health insurance very similar to Mayflower but in a group just for Brockton and a couple of are small entities and we know those cost pressures continue to rise and so the

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time is now and has never been more important. Uh I mentioned a couple minutes ago assessing, but there are so many opportunities and virtually any municipal service. If you look outside of Massachusetts, most of those municipal services, uh public works, uh

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trash collection, um any of the financial services that communities do. Uh years ago, we looked at engineering, uh uh and providing plan review and those sorts of things. planning itself and if you look at any municipal service

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uh there are economies of scale with providing those services on a regional basis and so I think uh the opportunity exists now to really engage with county communities seek uh information from them about what's

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important and and go down that road to provide those services because uh the budget pressures that I've spoken about and that all those towns and the city of Brockton are grappling with, they're not going away. Uh and uh the amazing work

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that the legislature did with the Student Opportunity Act, uh that funding is ending and so that's going to put even more pressure on county communities uh to find ways to continue to deliver services. I don't want to get too philosophical here, Madam Chairman, but

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I think we can all recognize that the funding structure through Proposition 2 and a half has has sort of reached its limit. And the ability for governments to continue to provide services with a 2 and a.5% increase every year is reaching a breaking point. And so we either have

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to figure out a way to change the way local government is funded uh or fund things and do things on a regional level to relieve some of those pressures or both. But there's no question, at least in my mind, that that some relief has to occur uh for local government to be able

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to continue. >> Great. Thank you. So questions. >> One more last question, Madam Chair. Just uh I guess a philosophical point of view. You know, since um a lot of what we discuss is public public um

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partnerships. Right now, we're in the midst of a survey surveying our member communities on the efforts that if we could regionalize might be beneficial. Uh in the past, we've walked down the lane of public private partnerships and today we're going to get an update on

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the 100 acres and the proposed use of that property with Boston South Properties. Uh and in the past we've contracted uh regional trash in regional uh energy uh that were public private

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relationships to the benefit of the member communities. But more importantly and above all for revenue generating programs for the county as you're aware 10 cents on every dollar that's uh transacted for deeds excise in the county. the other 90% goes to the

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Commonwealth and then we're relying on having to assess our communities uh their portion share that makes up our complete budget. What are your thoughts on trying to put public private relationships into the mix and trying to

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negotiate contracts that are uh revenue generating for the county? I I think that's always an excellent option and and I think can I can provide you examples of of every community where I've worked uh where that has has borne

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fruit. Actually you commissioner Hanley as you were mentioning that I thought of a public private partnership that we were working on here in the county back in 2010 uh >> 102 >> uh with the wood lot and

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the potential to have wind energy there. uh and that didn't come to fruition, but we actually put out an RFP and had uh contractors identified to erect I think it was three 1.5 or 1.65 megawatt wind turbines. And uh um

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so that those sort of partnerships that can generate revenue but provide a public service are always an option. And again, you know, I think that the county still has so many resources, land resources and u structure resources

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where those sorts of things can occur. Uh it it it always and and can should be an option. I say all the time, success is all about relationships. And the people in this room, the all three commissioners, uh the treasurer have long established

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relationships in the region that I think can uh that can be used to uh really boost that revenue and and create some revenue streams that provide long-term stability. >> Okay. Well, thank you for your presentation today.

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>> My pleasure. >> So, I have a couple questions. Uh I know back in the day uh we I believe we had spoken uh many times on towns and what they would be willing to give up and regionalize uh services with. Uh none of the towns at that time wanted to give up

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anything. Where do you where do you think we are today as far as their willingness to come in and uh probably partnership with us is uh regionalizing? I know uh there's a lot of things that I've been pounding about constantly. Uh

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one is grant writing. I think that is a very uh important source even to give out to our communities. Uh payroll services um you know so many other things that I can't think of right now. But uh where do you think that the towns stand as far as maybe giving up some of

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their uh regional services? >> That's a great question. So I use this analogy all the time. the the way this whole thing started and by thing I mean this great democratic experiment that is the United States as we all know just steps from here right uh some people

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came over on a ship and and decided they were seeking religious and social freedom and they formed a community in the mayor of Flower Compact and not long thereafter a couple people get in a dispute and a couple of guys said you know what we're going our own way and that's how Ducks got formed

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>> it's quite literally how it happened and then another 350 times over. Uh that happened again and we have the 351 communities in Massachusetts and those borders are real and imagined barriers, right? There is just fierce

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independence between communities and identities. Every community I've worked in, you know, Bridgewater has a regional school district with Rainom, but the people in Bridgewater have a different dialect. They speak differently than the people in RAM, literally, right? And so they have these fierce identities and

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they cling to them. Now when we go we the county go to them and say well let's regionalize and you're going to give up some of that authority and and power that you have and seed it so that we can do things regionally. Uh the opposition is fierce. I remember when I was

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administrator, we were looking to form uh regional dispatch for all 27 communities and we at one point had 27 fire chiefs and police chiefs in a room and it was uh >> getting everyone to work together. Now, we were leaders back then and since then

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several communities have regionalized their dispatch with great success. Uh uh but the the key is those relationships I talked about and getting communities to reduce those barriers and being willing to give up some uh of of the supervisory

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authority they have to work together. I think as I mentioned a few minutes ago that has changed since back then because the financial pressures have not abaded. They've gotten worse. And so communities have to do something. And so now I think is the best time ever for the county to

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to step in and and offer those opportunities. And you know that comes from the commissioners setting a course and deciding which services they want to provide and then working with those communities to do that. >> What would what is the value of bringing

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in a grant writer? I know we've tossed it around many times. I mean what would it benefit us? So, uh, thanks to the leadership, uh, and the support of the city council in Brockton, the we recently, uh, hired two grant writers, uh, two full-time grant writers in the

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city of Brockton, and they pay for themselves. >> Uh, so the the pay for both of them is a it's about $90,000 a piece. U, but they generate uh about a half a million a year in administrative fees back to the

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city. So, they more than pay for their own salaries. Uh so it's for us been a tremendous success because they're constantly bringing money in uh and and they're constantly looking for more grants. So each year those grant writers

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pay for themselves and they give us in the city the opportunity. One of them is to do things regionally. So we manage uh a grant in the city of Brockton that is providing uh health services to uh five communities Brockton and four other

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communities, three of those here in Plymouth County. Uh and that was through a grant that was obtained uh through us seeking out those opportunities and I I think that uh same opportunity most definitely exists for the county.

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>> Thank you. Uh I being out in handover change a little bit uh on the discussion here uh just recently uh you know there's a lot of misinformation out there. I don't feel that it's uh necessarily the uh select board that is

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you know creating this you know to uh get out of county government. Uh there may be one but uh I'm not sure about that. I think it's more of these citizens that are implementing this uh you know um uh petition

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uh which you know again I think getting the word out that you know there's a lot of bad information out there and um which is unfortunate because it just makes everybody you know look thin bad and then you know follow in line sometimes but uh we'll keep you know

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continue to keep on doing what we're doing. Uh I did mention the other night, you know, the pros and cons of, you know, uh leaving county government, but um I don't know where that's going to actually go, but um anyways, I just wanted to elaborate a little bit more on

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that. Um so I did have an a couple of the Any other questions, Commissioner Valenova, as we >> Yeah, I just have a couple of quick things. I'm curious by your comment about pros of leaving county government. To my opinion, there are no pros uh to leaving county government. Um relative

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to handover, it it is a citizens petition much like every other community in the county. It takes 10 signatures uh to get anything on the town meeting warrant which is an incredibly low threshold. I think handover has 15,000 residents. Uh Rockland 18, Plymouth

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70,000. So it's a very low threshold. Um I did want to quickly um just uh ask another quick question. Um, we do have the chairman of the handover select board here. Um, and our advisory board member, Rhonda Nyman, and I know you're leaving, so I want to thank you for your

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service to our advisory board, uh, for several years, five years, six years. So, thank you, and your service to the town of Hanover. Um, more broadly, this this was it is a citizens petition, but it was one one of your your colleagues, and I'm not going to put you on the spot

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on that, but maybe more broadly, I guess, what is your take on this article and um, our best approach? I I like Troy's idea that perhaps during committee reports, we offer updates, and that's something I never considered. A lot of communities do that, and that is

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actually a nice idea that gets us before an engaged audience. I I think uh he he's correct in that um any one of us uh taking on that agenda item that article item head on not the best idea but if you didn't mind just if you had some

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thoughts on uh that article that you wouldn't mind sharing with us that I would appreciate it >> and madam chair you allow me to have >> sure I'll speak briefly to it um again I think the committee report would be wonderful if we could have that information I don't know we've met past

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the deadline if it's printed yet or not, but if there's some sort of handout, I think that would be wonderful. As you know, I'm the chair of the select board. I'm running for county commissioner as well, so I have to be a little bit sensitive to this. Of course, I would be biased in any of my comments, but I can speak petitions. Uh, this year here,

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we've had a lot of citizens petitions that came in. Um, you know, there was a late filed by one of our select board members, um, with only 10 signatures, petitioners that signed. Um and you know how I feel it's should go through a

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citizen petition shouldn't be uh decided by a five member board of selectmen. It should go to town meeting and be to let citizens at town meeting vote how they'd like to see on any of the petitions. The select board did not weigh in on any of those. Um I know it's gone before advis

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advisory and um I believe that they're in support of pushing this forward but I do have to say that this is non-binding. This is just like sending a letter to the leg, you know, to the legislature, to the governor, to, you know, it's non-binding. It's not going to do

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anything. Um, you would need someone to file a bill >> and, you know, that's where it would have some standing. You'd have to reach out to the delegation or somebody would have to file that bill for us. Um, why it came about, I I don't know. I um have some assumptions again, but I'll leave

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that alone. I don't want to weigh in on any of the citizens petitions. I think it's a citizens petition for a reason. Let it go forward. Let town meeting decide what they should do. Um, don't know if that answers your question. >> No, it does. Thank you if I may, Madam Chair. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. No, it does. And as I said, I didn't mean I didn't want to put you on

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the spot. Um, but I do and I'm actually glad you said it because you're absolutely correct. I mean, I think one thing I try to remember here is not to overreact to certain things, right? Um, >> again, we have 27 communities. We have 550,000 constituents. Um, and we don't know what

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any one of them may be thinking at any time and what what they may want to try and do. And and I'm glad you mentioned that, um, Mrs. Diamond, because >> you're right, it it's akin to sending a letter, right? Um, knowing how the legislative process works. I don't think

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the legislature is going to necessarily take up a late filed bill, if it is even filed, you know, as a former legislator yourself. So, I don't I'm not I'm not entirely sure they're going to take up a late file bill to study the elimination of Plymouth County. So, that's why myself personally, I can't speak for my

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colleagues have tried not to take this not necessarily as a as an affront as something that might actually happen. I have absolutely no doubt we will be here for uh hundreds of years to come and all of us will just be nothing but you know pages of Plymouth County's history. Um

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but I do I do like your point on that and I think it's it's important that we try to remember and stay focused and grounded that doing great work and I think Mr. Clarkson, you've you've highlighted what was worked on for years and and the point we've come to now. Um

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that's our best defense. Um we could bore the masses with I shouldn't say bore. I'm sure there are some who are very interested. Treasure O'Brien would obviously be interested in any financial or monetary data that came forward as would I and everybody in this room. But we could discuss ad nauseium the the

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millions of dollars it would cost the member communities of Poma County were to be eliminated. We could discuss the the retraction of the level of services. As many may know, I work professionally in real estate. Our registry of deeds, no exaggeration, is one of the best is the best registry of deeds to deal with

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in the Commonwealth. And that's not a put down of our friends in other counties. Certainly not a put down of the state, but the level of service, the the the quickness, the accuracy that that agency provides uh is incredible and and and deserves a loting. and and

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anytime I have a real estate transaction I'm working on outside of the county, I I brace myself for when I have to deal with those other registries. And I've heard that feedback from title attorneys, land use attorneys across the board. So, I think it's important for us to remember our best defense to this is

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going to be our offense. I I appreciated the treasurer's um uh report on WATD Monday night. I think it was excellent. It was >> all-encompassing of of the Plymouth County Retirement Board. And I think there may be some confusion on that. Uh some people think we also kill mosquitoes, right, because the PM County

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Mosquito Control, which is a separate state entity. So, um I mean that's all I have. I I right now, Madam Chair, on it. I I think again I I liked um I don't know if it was Troy or Rhonda who mentioned um the committee reports at beginning of town meetings. Um but I

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think that could be a good idea going forward uh for us to examine not just handover but every other community that may have that. I know the legislators do updates there. it might be advantageous uh if there's an opportunity uh for us to come in and just give a a five minute

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uh year and review and uh I know some towns I'm I'm looking at Nancy not for an answer but for affirmation some towns even as asked us for an annual report um in the past and they didn't one town last year want one >> um was it bridge water >> it's about been about 25 years since

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>> that might be another idea though I mean again it's it's tough to put out there are people I read, believe it or not, almost every Townstown town report these days now. But just different ideas to com to combat some of these things. Again, I I think it's unfortunate. You know, I you you mentioned turnover on

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select boards. I'll just end with this. I I've reached out uh I always try to reach out to new select board members, offer uh my number to have a phone call uh or you know, a meeting or coffee just to discuss or new counselors in Brockton Brockton and Bridgewwater's case. Um and

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that offer is always there. So if there are newer members on these boards across the county that want to learn more and I I don't think my colleagues I don't think Chair Ryder, Commissioner Hanley are adverse to it either. We're willing to sit and talk with anyone anywhere any time about the things we do. And you

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know I think we're still trending well above budget. So as as Troy mentioned some of the financial restraints a lot of communities have. Plymouth County is not only a balanced budget but it's turning a surplus. So I think we're doing something right here. Madame Chair, if I may.

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>> Go ahead. >> Thank you. I didn't realize that uh Selectwoman uh Nyman was in the um audience. Uh and I'm not going to speak for our group, but I would like um to see if we could pursue uh our ability to

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address town meeting. Uh and in doing so, we'd obviously have to post uh for the three of us to be present because we'd all be there. But I want to uh see if that's something we should pursue through the board. You know, I go with the consensus. I plan on being there.

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But to Jared's point, I think public education in just a fiveminut opportunity to distinguish the difference between uh the request of extending the funding schedule as really being the the epicenter of why and how this all came up and telling the folks

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of handover it has nothing to do with Plymouth County. it is Plymouth County Retirement Board that has those decisions as well as and Jared could probably speak to this better than me that all the other member communities who voted on this many years ago to

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their benefit. So, I think we need to not debate what's at hand with the retirement board, but what is at stake here by this petition initiative to try to do something as a knee-jerk reaction to what the retirement uh board has yet

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to be requested from the community. They're going to us saying to us that we should do something about it and we need to get it out there that we're two separate entities. And I would just ask that if allowed through you, Madam Chair, to the chair of the handover board that we at least seek the

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opportunity to be heard. Uh for that, >> I don't think uh that I would want to put her on the spot right now. >> Well, I think she answered it. I mean, I think she mentioned the warrant may have already been been posted. I would argue perhaps the moderator would have some leverage under whatever the article item

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is. Um I'm not answering for you, but I'm >> No, Madam Chair. I think a lot of people don't know enough about what county government does. So I think it might be helpful if that's your intention to come in and just talk a little bit if the town it's up to the town moderator.

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>> Right. Um certainly um you know and um you know I I'll stay at bay um obviously at town meeting but I think it wouldn't hurt if the board if you your board someone chooses to do so going forward. I think if it's just an update about the good things that they've done and you

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know what you're doing, I don't think it would be like you said the senator and the state rep comes speaks at town meeting >> you know and I think the more we can talk about what county government does the better off we'll all have a better understanding. >> Yeah. And I think that this is one of the things that we brought up, you know, in the first of the year when I became

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the chair is that, you know, just getting out and and talking to our communities uh more and finding out what their needs are. And it is frustrating, you know, where there's a constant turnover of select boards and and uh counselors and uh so it's it's difficult

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to always keep up with, you know, all the different changes. It's difficult, you know, even uh having the budget meeting today uh Tuesday, uh how difficult it is for the three of us to we, you know, just can't get together and talk about anything. So, it's frustrating because we always want to

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make sure that we're on the same page and uh hopefully that's going to change a little bit with the education of the uh administrator and the uh treasurer uh where they'll meet more on a regular basis with each of us. So, uh, we're trying, you know, we're getting out

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there and and, uh, I think that we have a lot to offer and a lot to bring in and it's just getting the word out and, you know, when new people come in and and updating them a little bit more. >> Just real quick, only because Commissioner Hanley did mention something that I wanted to and I'm trying to be mindful of time because I

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know he has a funeral to get to. So, um, he had mentioned with the retirement board, I think the the last little piece I'll put on this is the retirement board is a five member board. Two members are elected by the members. One is elected by the treasurers in the member units. One member is appointed by us and one is

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obviously elected the the county treasurer. If you were to eliminate Plymouth County, you would actually have less oversight. So the communities, the towns would have less oversight and less responsiveness to uh even that issue. Commissioner Hanley is correct. It has

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nothing to do with us aside from the fact that we appoint one member to that board. Um, but if you were to eliminate Plymouth County, you would effectively eliminate the two members of that board that are uh that are answerable to the public. Treasurer O'Brien has to run for election. He's answerable to the public.

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Uh he's accountable to uh everyone in the county. He's accountable to the member units in the county. The three of us obviously have to run and we have an appointment. We are accountable. So, so in a interestingly roundabout way, uh the idea of eliminating us as it relates

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to the thread of retirement would give you less oversight because you would be reduced to the state board, uh which is chaired by the state auditor. She's very busy. Um not to put that she is she's very busy. Good luck trying to get you can get Treasurer O'Brien pretty easily. We know where our address is. 44 Over

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Street, Plymouth. You come on in here and take a right to see him or you take a left to see the commissioners and and who the appointee is there. So, um I I just wanted to end my comments on that because I think Commissioner Hanley hit a a good >> note there and I think it's important to get it out there >> uh that any elimination of us actually

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reduces drastically the amount of oversight the member units >> and by virtue or the by extension the taxpayers of the county would have on that board which is an incredibly well-run board. I will end on that. It is very good. Madam

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>> chair, I I'll leave on this just uh with respect if we could just um put it in Frank's hands to coordinate with handover to see if we could be part of that evening in whatever capacity with the idea of >> me. So if it's only one that goes

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>> very good Frank has that. Okay, getting back to you. I want to thank you so very much. I greatly appreciate your input. I always do and uh you're a good friend and uh I know that we will have um future meetings uh and any questions I

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know I can always count on you so thank you so much >> thank you thank Madam Chairman my pleasure to be here >> thank you thank you for coming in >> Troy >> okay so uh let's move on so do I have a

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motion to accept uh April 9th minute uh minutes >> motion Second. >> All in favor? I. >> Nope. You have to call a roll call. >> I'm sorry. I'm just getting into the swing here after that. Roll call. Commissioner Hanley. >> Yes.

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>> Commissioner Valenzola. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Wright. Yes. >> Motion to approve CPS forms. Francisca Drummond. New hire benefits assistant. Mayflower Municipal Health Group 15-1. >> Second. >> Okay. Roll call. Commissioner Hanley.

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>> Yes. >> Commissioner Valenzola. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Wright. Yes. >> Uh motion to approve end of vouchers. >> Second. >> Okay. Uh roll call. Commissioner Hanley. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Valenzola. >> Yes.

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>> Commissioner Wright. Yes. >> Okay. Um do I have a motion? >> Sorry. Yeah. A motion to accept payroll vouchers. >> Second. >> Okay. Commissioner Hanley. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Valenzola. >> Yes.

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>> Commissioner Wright. Yes. Okay. Next. Uh do we have any um American Recovery Plan Act? Uh any >> vote? >> Okay, we do. Okay. Thank you. >> Pursuant to the terms and conditions of the American Rescue Plan Act, the Plymouth County Commissioners grant dispersement of funds held administered

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through the Plymouth County Opera Program as follows. Payment to Clifton Lassen Allen LLP in the amount of $5,744 administrative support. >> Second. >> Okay. Roll call. Commissioner Hanley. Commissioner. >> Yes.

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>> Commissioner Valenzola. >> Yes. But I do just have a quick question on the motion. >> Sure. >> Are we still at about 1% administrative costs? Treasure O'Brien. >> We are. >> Very nice. Thank you. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. Commissioner Wright. Yes. >> Okay. Very good. Uh would lot lease

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update and possible action. That would be uh uh administrator Frank Basler. >> Uh thank you, Madam Chair. Uh the negotiations committee had a great meeting yesterday with the uh negotiation uh between the negotiation team and Boston South Development. Uh

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Boston South was very excited to present a conceptual plan that they'd like to move forward with a project that meets all parts of the original RFP and offers significant values both to the county and to the town of Plymouth. Uh the proposal is still in development uh

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final development but includes a combination of multi-ports arena complex for hockey and basketball, a golf entertainment complex along with hotel and potentially some friendly housing development. >> What was it?

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>> Uh we just handed out a conceptual plan that came in uh this morning. Uh and I want to share that. share that with uh the >> just like to go through this quickly. Um I have handed out this handout. Uh this

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is a conceptual plan A. Uh you can see this is actually the wood lot is the centerpiece of uh of this main green area. Uh it includes a few other pieces that Boston South has under contractual

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obligation and it includes the two additional pieces uh from the county. So uh you'll see uh from the east uh this plan conceptual A starts with 150 room hotel. It's considered a play and stay

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hotel uh for tournaments and whatnot for those at the hockey rink and of course regular visitors to the area. Uh it also includes a driving range, pitch and putt and uh some uh golf uh holes for uh for

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training and uh and um amusement. Uh there'll also be a tavern there for entertainment. And then it does include a cooperative funding bee working with the town of Plymouth uh to help uh fix

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uh and uh meet their uh housing goals. Uh again, this is uh early uh planning uh but we wanted to show you what uh Boston South has been working on. Conceptual plan B

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is a slightly different uh roll out uh and includes um uh just shifting of those pieces on the lot. Uh what Boston South is looking for uh is uh to

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complete their timelines and due diligence work. They've invested hundreds of thousands of dollars into the property over the last four years. They need an additional year to finish this work and be ready to present the project uh to the commissioners and to

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the town. They are requesting one additional year amendment on the due diligence lease to pull the final details together. as a tremendous show of good faith, they've offered the county $150,000 for this year, this amendment um uh $150,000 for the

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amendment, and they're willing to pay this uh amount two months earlier than they have to. Uh the negotiation team feel this is a generous offer and supports the one-year amendment. I'm asking the commissioners to approve the one-year amendment and to authorize the

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county administrator to sign the amendment once it it's approved by county council and I can answer any questions chair. >> Any questions? Commissioner Valenol. >> No, thank you. I Frank covered it very well. >> I'm just

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>> Yep. Go ahead, Commissioner. not not being present, not having whatever paperwork has been distributed, would it be possible to uh stay a vote for today and put it on the agenda for a vote at the next meeting so I can come up to speed with it? Uh we have plenty of

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time. My understanding is we have them under agreement till July 1 on the current program. Uh yes, the current lease runs through June 30th of 2026. >> Okay. So, all I'm asking for is uh not

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for a vote today, but certainly for a vote, I'd absolutely consider the due diligence of the negotiating committee, but I'm just not present to go through it. So, I in my mind understand what the program is. >> Okay. Uh

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with that, um is there any reason why they haven't come in and presented? I mean I they presented what five years ago. Uh it'd be nice to have them come in and uh give us a presentation of what they're actually planning on doing and probably their timeline.

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>> Well, we we uh they're still finalizing all that and that's why they need the additional one year of time. uh they will do a full presentation uh with uh draft timeline and with uh the actual conceptual plan. Uh they need to work

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with Plymouth, the town of Plymouth, a little bit more and they uh need the additional time uh to iron out the details. Um so this uh and I I I understand uh Commissioner Hanley, I did um actually email that to you. Uh we uh

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this conceptual plan came to us this morning. Uh so uh I I emailed that out knowing that Commissioner Hanley wasn't going to be here, but uh it might have uh uh after he left this morning. I apologize for that delay, but that was due to that's when we received it. Um we

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thought this would be an additional tool just to help conceptualize what they're working on uh for today's meeting. Um, but uh I know they're anxious to get going and continue work, but uh I leave that to the uh to the decision of the commissioners.

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>> Okay. So, I know we're going to table it until next time uh next meeting uh when Mr. uh Commissioner Hanley is uh able to see the the plans here. But uh I think in between now and probably July June, well, you said June 30th, we should they

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should be able to give us some update of uh where they are in standing with the town of Plymouth. >> Well, they're working with them and and all this all this work is a negotiation. They're working um to finalize the timelines and to come up with the

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details that they would need to present to the commissioners on um on a more uh rigid or more structured plan complete plan. Right now it's very conceptualized >> and and they have they have they are

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working with the negotiation committee as is directed by the commissioners. uh we created a negotiation committee to work with them and they have uh they gave us this tool uh yesterday. They went through a timeline and I'm more

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than happy to share that share that too. >> How often does our committee meet with them? I mean it doesn't seem like it's been you know is it on a yearly basis or is it a doesn't seem like it's been very often. >> It's ad hoc. Uh so um we met with them

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as directed by the commissioners and as requested by Boston South. Uh we met with them yesterday. Uh it has been a number of years since we've met with them, but that's what the negotiations committee uh expected and and shared uh

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because there right now it's only in a uh uh uh planning process and uh portion of the lease. So, um, you know, one additional year and we can go over this

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again, uh, with, uh, Commissioner Hanley in the room next next meeting, uh, and, uh, and answer questions again then. Um, if you'd like, uh, I can we can request to come in. >> Let's table it until the next meeting. Yeah. And if they if you can ask them to

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come in, if they have any other details or anything up updated, then, you know, it certainly would be helpful. They're going to present exactly what I just shared with you. Okay? Because that's exactly what we heard yesterday. >> Okay. All right. >> Yeah. I think it's important to note they are working with multiple end users

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as it relates to developing the site. Those end users change. Um the reason why there was a request uh for the vote this morning um was uh to just send a signal to the end users that

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will be developing the site that uh we're ready, willing, and able to move forward. Um I'm not sure what a two twoe delay would look like or mean. Um, but part of the reason why there's been no presentation is there's there hasn't been aside from the work they've done uh

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with the site. Um, as they reported to us yesterday, uh, they've been working with other end users. I I I I get the sense that they could have potentially come in here once a month with a whole bunch of different things. And what was the point of that if it's never going to come to fruition? I'm not a big believer

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in wasting this board's time or wasting anybody's time on possibilities or things that aren't concrete. Um they've come to us with something concrete. Uh as Frank mentioned, they've they've come to us with $150,000 for an additional year. Um we are three years in, four

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years in with these folks, not five years, it's actually been less than four. Um so I think um I mean I'm obviously supportive of it, but given that Commissioner Hanley's not here, certainly look forward to uh giving this an affirmative vote in two weeks.

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>> Okay, we'll table it till next time. Great. Great. Thank you, Madam Chair. >> Okay, so um next is municipal programs and uh opportunity discussion for Pulma County. I think that I don't think that there's really anything uh that we need

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to update right now. I know that uh we met Tuesday about the budget and you know went through a lot of different uh ideas and uh of what we have interest in. And I know that you have uh a paper of all the things that county has been

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doing for projects and it would be interesting and and probably worth our while to uh probably discuss those more uh in maybe next I know you're going to be meeting with the other commissioners to update them on that and we'll have more to come forward I believe in some

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of those programs that we already have uh going. So other than that um I before we adjourn uh I think at this time uh going forward uh let me see of course I

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want to thank uh Dr. Clarkson for coming in and and all you people for coming in and I do want to uh say thank you to my commissioners for rescheduling their time and making it an early morning meeting. I don't know if that has been okay with you and uh there was some

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discussion the other day of maybe moving our meeting even to 3:30 on Thursday and if that would be able to fit in your schedules. Uh something we can talk about later. I think uh the Thursday evening is probably better than the morning ones just because of payroll and

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vendor vouchers and everything that it would be a problem. They wouldn't be available until Friday. So, we'll keep the meetings on uh Thursday evening uh possibly. And that's a question if you know 3:30 would be good for you, Commissioner Valenzola uh instead of

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4:00 uh and Commissioner Hanley. I know you people have the jobs that you have to work around and I greatly appreciate your time. So, uh we can the next meeting will be at uh I guess four o'clock then. And um so moving forward

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uh we had discussed the budget on Tuesday. thinking about different things that uh when I came out of there uh I do want to uh have or form a committee uh a budget committee um I would like to work with

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uh or sub subcommittee uh knowing that uh you know bringing in the department heads as we spoke um I feel that they should be a part of something uh before we go forward with the budget if they have any concerns or or anything like

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that And um also I think um in the presentation today uh from Mr. uh yeah Dr. Clarkson uh I would also maybe in uh like to invite him into our budget meeting at some point and um and uh

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going forward. But I know that he has uh two award-winning budgets in the town of Hanover and and Brockton, which says a lot. And I always liked other inputs and I like just another set of eyes that uh might be available to us uh and helping

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us in in county government. So, uh that's where I stand right now. Um >> on that, Madam Chair, if I may, >> what is uh what is Dr. Clarkson's billable hour for that? Uh well that would have to be something you know that

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we would have to discuss or uh >> so is is there dissatisfaction with the present budget that as I mentioned is what are we currently running ahead of projection treasurer O'Brien >> $800,000. >> So is there dissatisfaction with the way

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the budget process has been before that is turning a surplus in an environment where communities are making drastic cuts or having to have overrides to fill their gaps? No, there's no dissatisfaction. I think that, you know, it's always good to have other input from other entities and and people and I

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think that uh it would be great to uh you know, he was once a commissioner. Uh so I no I'm sorry the administrator here long ago before you and I and um I think any input you know going forward especially with you know where where we're trying to regionalize services um

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and it might be a good input and where you know we may want to look into more grant writing as I've always been saying that we need and um I just think it would be helpful uh from the outside >> if I may you keep saying grant writing I

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believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, Frank, wasn't part of the job description of the assistant administrator uh grant writing. >> Uh yes. >> So, I think we have that covered as you recall when we allocated funds for that position, which has been uh very uh

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filled incredibly well by by uh >> by Teresa. So, I mean, I'm never opposed to more grant writers, of course. Uh as Troy said, and as I've known for many years, they absolutely pay for themselves. Um, I'm just puzzled by the

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idea of outside entities uh examining our budget when we already have an auditor that does and gives it uh passing passing grades. Beyond passing grades, it it it it's no blemishes. So, um, I'm trying to wrap my

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mind conceptually around how we are in back-to-back budget cycles that have turned what, 800,000 this year, Treasure O'Brien, and how much did we close the books with last year? >> Another 750,000. So again, in an

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environment where towns need overrides and and a lot of communities are making difficult decisions, Plymouth County uh through the process that's been established well before I got here has a $ 1.5 million in excess revenue that has

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come in over the last two fiscal years. Um I'm of the adage I I hate noise and doing things for the sake of just doing things. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. uh you're the chair, so you obviously are part of the the budget group as I was when I was chair as you were when

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you were chair before and Commissioner Haley when he was chair. Uh that process has served us incredibly well, turn surpluses and um certainly if we can have someone of Dr. Clarkson's caliber assisting us, that's never going to be a bad thing. Uh but I would just I'm I'm

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I'm a little befuddled to the the reasoning behind outside entities. Um, we have, you know, Mr. Hefernon who's a commissioner in training and of, I'm sorry, administrator in training and, uh, Teresa who's an assistant. We have an incredible amount of talent here. Um,

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why we feel we a need outside individuals or b might feel a need to contract other people uh, to assist in something that clearly isn't broken. >> Madam Chair, if I may, uh, just because I have to jump into this funeral right

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now. uh in in your budget review, is there a way that commissioners can participate? You're inviting uh an outside person to come in who's qualified, obviously. uh you sat with the treasurer and the administrator the

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other day. Uh to to Jared's point with respect to budget surpluses, I think if we have surpluses and we're putting out surveys to member communities on how can we help through regional effort efforts reduce their cost which in turn would

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increase our cost. So, with respect to a process before we get to advisory in June, I don't think it hurts to kick the tires. I haven't seen, and I don't know if you've seen it, Jared, a copy of the budget, but if our goals are to go out

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and be a service to our member communities, there may be allocations of monies, albeit free cash, but why not address it in the budget? if I could be a part of the process and I would advocate for Jared to be a part of it. Obviously, we would have to post and I

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don't know what your what your program is going to be, Madam Chair, but with respect to me supporting this idea, I don't think uh you need a vote on it, but with respect to Jared's questioning, you know, she is the chair. But having said that, I would love to be a part of

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the process because I think these revelations that I'm hearing about um excess money are new to me. With respect to audits, I think we revealed at the last meeting our audits are not up to date. So I don't know what validations or verifications we've got for what

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we've already accomplished. We're waiting for the outcomes of those. But as I stand and I will leave on this last moment, I would support whatever your efforts are, Madam Chair, as long as commissioners have a say in the proper postings, the potential for executive

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session, whatever it takes, I would like to be a part of the process because as we go out there and try to be of use to our member communities, the feedback, which we have yet to receive, would have to be addressed in the 2027 budget if we're going to be meaningful in any way.

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So on that note, thank you for the forbearance of of the vote on the wood lot and I and I have to go on those comments. So thank you very much. >> Thank you. I think that what I had expressed on Tuesday during the budget meeting was, you know, with uh our

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administrator leaving, uh it wouldn't hurt to just have another set of eyes, you know, somebody who has the knowledge and the ability to uh and who has had uh two award-winning um budgets with uh Brockton and Hannah over it just

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wouldn't hurt. on that. Madam Chair, first to Commissioner Hanley's point, I think Treasurer O'Brien updated us on the on the projected revenues uh a couple of meetings ago. >> I did >> and um also that the auditors have been in and have been continuing to do their work. So I'm not sure.

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>> I mean I guess I'm able to retain information but uh unfortunately others don't. Um I always think I do >> find it am it's it it's interesting to me like >> the three of us are absolutely able to participate. You put it on the agenda

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and we participate. The the budget is not something that can be discussed in executive session ever. That that will never I don't think meet the threshold of an executive session. Um there's just absolutely nothing that we this is a public body. We're elected by the people and everything we discuss can be public.

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I have never had a problem with with the the budget committee that has been in place again well before I got here. Um but I I think it's interesting um I think it's interesting now that we're discussing this. Who was in that meeting

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on Tuesday? Was it Was it just >> the treasurer uh Frank and myself? >> Okay. Were others invited to be in that meeting? >> No. whether so we have uh we have Frank

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who's leaving which is which is sad but happy for your retire pending retirement where was there a reason why the assistant administrator and the administrator in training you know two folks that were you know were paying why were they omitted from that meeting was that your omission my choice uh at the

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meeting I had felt that you know I in the past always felt that uh or I thought um uh registister Buckley was in it and um I thought all the department heads and which some of them weren't and

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the ones that really uh again uh Chris is in training um which I think you know again is coming up where he's going to have to reapply for his position that's going to have to quote according to Sharon back when Greg mentioned that back a long time ago.

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>> Who's Sharon? Uh Shannon, I'm sorry, Shannon. And um so there's a lot of a lot of things that I'm just, you know, very concerned about and you know, coming up and I just am feeling that uh a little insecure of you know the the movement and the the way

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the the county is going to be directed in. I know uh Teresa is here and um I know that you know the treasurer is here but I still think it wouldn't hurt to just have uh a committee a subcommittee which you know is going to involve all of the department heads.

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>> But we but we do have one. My question is you're talking about involving all the department heads but you omitted >> the administrator that we are the individual that we're training to take the position on. That that was the point of that. That's the point of investing that money in that individual. And you

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omitted the assistant administrator who I think would offer value. I think they both would. So I'm I'm trying to wrap my mind again conceptually around we have two highly qualified individuals that were vetted and hired by this board. They were omitted from your budget

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subcommittee meeting, which you are the budget subcommittee. This I'm not sure what other subcommittees need to be formed or can be formed. you omitted two folks from that. Um, you know, to Commissioner Hanley's point, candidly, I'm aware of some of these things because I'll give the treasurer a call

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or I'll give Frank a call or I'll return their calls. I make myself aware. Um, and I and I know that everybody in this organization again, and I don't say this ever facitiously. I've I've been involved in town government. I've worked for the state. I've worked in the legislature. This government, this

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entity right here, Plymouth County, is the bestrun, most responsive government entity I've ever responded to. Doug's here, our our maintenance superintendent. Anytime I've ever had to call him, he answers the caller. He gets right back to me. Register Buckley, same thing. Molly Wulmer, anytime. Um, you

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don't I don't think I shouldn't say you. I personally do not believe we need to create subcommittees this or throw out the idea that things are just a miss when you are of your own power and free will and valition to make the calls and

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sit down with the people and have the discussions with them and and candidly you also don't have to do that. I mean, at the end of the day, and and Commissioner Haley's now off, at the end of the day, we're three individuals that are elected, and there's an expectation I put on myself on how I want to perform

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this role. You and Commissioner Haley may have your own expectations, but um to to sort of broadly make it seem like things are happening here and there and you're not involved and you don't you think things are a miss, I think is unfortunate. And I

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think it it it it speaks to the overall effort that everybody here has put in. Um, and again, I I'm just trying to conceptually wrap my mind around the fact that we got an allocation from the advisory board that the the the the advisory board saw the wisdom in bringing an individual in to train under

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Frank. It took Bristol County 2 and a half years to hire an administrator. And I by no means want to see Plymouth County in that position, and the advisory board didn't neither. and they saw fit uh to give us an allocation to to train a very well uh qualified

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individual who by again because I ask I don't >> the the information doesn't just come to me I ask I ask how are our uh folks are doing I ask about these things I do the work right and um I've received no no

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bad bad grades so um and I'm sure the same report would be given to you and given to Commissioner Hanley so Um, I'm not I'm not sure what a subcommittee would look like. I I'm agnostic. If you want to have every single employee in the county in that meeting, go for it. I mean, it it it but what I do do and what

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I am involved in, and this is again where I think it's interesting that this is some weird conversation that keeps happening because you've both been here since I was in high school. When the budget's presented to us, we can take 10 minutes, we can take 10 hours with it, >> right?

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>> We can sit here with that entire packet. And as a matter of fact, Treasurer O'Brien goes pretty much line item through line item anyway. But >> he did the other day. Absolutely. >> What I'm saying is when we're sitting here, when we're voting on it, that's that's when the true discussion is. >> Um I certainly made known to to the treasurer and to the administrator some

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of the things that I had in mind that I would like to see. Um and when we were here yesterday, they reported to me that you were receptive for them. So I'm thankful for that. Um, but how this works, if there wants to be a robust discussion on the budget well ahead of when we have the meeting before the advisory board meeting, put it on the

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agenda and we'll discuss it. That that's always been an option. But the idea that we can have backroom meetings, which I think is interesting, or the fact that we want to do things as Commissioner Hanley said, you know, uh, meet outside and have the commissioners more involved. I I I'm still involving

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myself. That's what I was elected to do. So, um, uh, but again, I'm I'm I'm more perplexed by the fact that, um, our new, uh, and very talented folks were not involved in that budget meeting. Um, because again, a lot of what we're

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looking at is a transition from Frank to to, uh, what's going to be new leadership. Um, if we're training folks and getting them up to speed, omitting them from what is the most important thing we do, which is our budget, uh, is just perplexing to me. and and I would

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request that all future uh budget meetings that you have, Madam Chair, uh include uh the assistant and the administrator in training. And that that's my request. Again, all the due respect to my dear friend in Brockton, Dr. Clarkson, who I know um would be incredible, but we have uh two folks on

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staff uh that are beyond capable of working with Frank, with yourself, with the treasurer, and whomever else in that room. Uh, and I don't see any reason to pay outside folks to come in and help us with our budget when we have two people on staff. >> Thank you so much for your input there.

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I'll take it under consideration. I know that we're meeting on t uh Wednesday next week and this is something that we'll discuss further uh and uh what I'm what my thoughts are. So I guess the next thing is uh a motion to adjourn.

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>> Uh so moved. >> Second. All in favor? I >> I >> Well, he left the Zoom, so I don't Why don't we do a roll call just in case, Madam Chair? >> Well, he left it, but I don't know if that's where it was. >> Commissioner um Hanley is off the uh out

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of the commission's meeting. Uh Commissioner Valenzola. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Wright. Yes. Thank you. 18 guard export.