Evening everybody. I'd like to call this meeting to order. >> Notice in accordance with NJSA 10-4. Adequate notice of this meeting has been provided to the star ledger of the express times as well as posted on the township's website and on the bulletin
board in the municipal building satisfying the requirements of the open public meetings act. We could all now stand for a moment of silence and a flag salute. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation
under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. All right, first order of business. We have uh minutes from our May 19th meeting, both regular and executive uh session minutes. Noel circulated them if
everybody had time to take a look at them. Anybody have any amendments or corrections? Hearing none. Uh motion to move those both minutes forward. So move. >> I'll second that. >> Mr. Rinsky. >> Yes. >> Mr. Lozetti. >> Yes.
>> Mr. Stillow. >> Yes. >> Mr. Slack. >> Yes. >> Motion to pay bills. Payment of bills presented in proper form signed by the director of each department and approved by the majority of members and listed on the bill list. Did anybody have any
questions on their bill list? I know Scott had a couple things here. He wanted to make sure we got paid in his email he sent us. >> Yep. >> Nelson, anything? >> No. I looked through it and did not see in that comment on >> Steve. >> Nope. I'm okay.
>> All right. I'll entertain a motion to pay our bills. >> I'll make that motion. >> Second. >> Mr. Binsky? >> Yes. >> Mr. Lozetti? >> Yes. >> Mr. Stillo? >> Yes. >> Mayor Slack? >> Yes. >> Okay. Now, public comments pertaining to
agenda items and agenda items only. If anybody would like to make comment about anything on our agenda tonight, please come forward. I don't see a sign in sheet, but uh come forward and be recognized.
They're all gone. >> There'll be a second public comment at the end. If you missed anything as we get through the meeting, like Kevin said, there's a second public comment. >> I like >> Sure. >> Um, should I sit or stand or should I
sit? >> Whichever you prefer. Like >> Okay. Um, >> hello. Can you hear me? >> U, my name is Fawn Malone. I am uh I I own a company that is currently
uh in contract to acquire a property located at 602 Liberty Boulevard, block 4, block one. >> Hang on a moment. That's not an agenda item. Let's wait for public the general public comment on that. Okay. >> This is only dealing with stuff
specifically on our agenda. >> Yeah, there it is on your agenda. the the approving the uh the resolution for class 5 dispensary. >> Oh, okay. Okay. >> Yeah, that's that's what I'm commenting on. >> Okay, fine. Go ahead.
>> Um so go going back um in particular to that property. I'm under contract to purchase it. >> I have applied to get a license uh for a dispensary with the town uh on April 16th. It was denied. My understanding
was that it was part of the process. Uh we were told to essentially not to do anything because there was an applicant located on 998 New Bunsuk Avenue that they were going to get their resolution in May. It would be a waste of our time
uh to not do anything. So, I I guess I'm here to >> um if if it's okay, can I take a minute to give my background information if that's okay with you guys? >> Are are you referencing block 78, lot
three? That's that's the resolution on our agenda for cannabis. Are you talking about a different problem? >> Yeah, I'm talking about that particular topic. Yes. >> Okay. So, >> not that topic, that block and lock. >> Yes. I'm I'm talking about um tonight
you guys will be approving a resolution to operate a dispensary >> at that particular property tonight. >> And you want to talk about different properties? >> No, no. I I want to talk about uh because that property affects the property that I'm acquiring. Um because
once you guys uh uh once you guys issue this resolution of support, it essentially takes away the only remaining license that you have in town. >> Correct. The ordinance >> Yes. >> permits up to two retail licenses. This will be the second.
>> Exactly. So that'll be >> um and and I guess my my whole point was I was trying to applied under 602 Ly Boulevard for this same exact license and we were told not to apply and I'm I'm asking you guys to reconsider
my particular property and not or even if you do approve this one if you can perhaps consider my property too. I know. I don't know. >> Well, we we we can't mix apples and oranges. The this this property has gone
through site plan approval with the land use board, which is a requirement of the application. They've they've done everything. They've dotted the eyes and crossed the tees. Um I I I vaguely remember your application. It was incomplete and it was ultimately sent back, I believe. So, you lost your space
and you lost your spot in line and these people ended up number two. Um, unless unless until we we were to change the license, two is the limit and there's there's nothing we can be that can be done for your property. >> Well, I well well one I was not aware
that our application was incomplete um or or any kind of negative feedback that would affect us. >> I think it was actually returned to you. >> We were told that that was part of the process that it was denied and then we had to go through the process with the land use. I guess my I'm trying to
understand what your process what your due process is for your town to for a particular license. Like what I I don't understand why I wasn't given a fair chance to apply to, you know, why I was told not to even waste my time. Um and
and I understand that yes, we're both applying for that one resolution um you know that this town has and whoever gets it essentially that's it, right? you weren't the only person who lost out on the race. There were other
properties. Um, but it's listen, it was it's a we we treat it on a first come, first- serve basis. Whoever had a complete application, these people had a complete application, you did not. >> They have site plan approval. To my knowledge, you don't have any of that yet. >> Yeah, but we were told not to even
proceed with that. >> Well, I I I you never told that by me. I'm the attorney. Nobody ever contacted me about your application. I do I do recall it being I do recall it being why wouldn't we even consider that's >> that's all we can say and I think we're
beyond the time for this so we're going to move on >> okay I mean >> I mean until we change to three licenses we're only going to allow two we started out with only one and we were almost dead set on leaving just one and then we
saw there was more interest we went to two but we we limited anything along the corridor on Route 22 too. And personally, I didn't really even want to go to two, but we did to be fair. Uh, but from what I understand, uh, 22 is
going to have several along up there. So, I and I don't know how council feels about, you know, having more than two. I thought two was plenty. I don't John, what's your thoughts? >> Two, >> Steve. >> Turn around anyway. >> Yeah, pro probably. Yeah. I hadn't
really thought about it that much, but >> yeah, I would think. Nelson, any input? >> Yeah, I mean two seems fine. Plus, there's others in Philsburg other places. It seems that two fine. >> Can I ask what's wrong with >> Yeah, one. What's the issue?
>> Then it's four, then it's five, then it's six, and then >> the one that's already approved is only like three buildings away from his building, >> right? Literally right next door. >> Is this the form? He's Is he the former Mandre building? >> I don't know. Yes, Bill property that
we're talking about, Bill. >> That is correct. >> I believe we got a letter from Mr. Mandry saying absolutely don't go forward with the with that application. So, that's part of the reason why you lost your spot in line was a letter from Mr. Mandre. >> So, I don't know what happened with that. So, that that was yesterday's
news. And and listen, we these are three minute little things on agenda items only. We're not going to relitigate our ordinance and the number of licenses. Now, if you want to send us a a letter or something asking us to reconsider, fine. But we're not going to have a
halfhour conversation about your property on a resolution for a different property. We're not doing that. >> We have a lot of people here. >> What is the procedure? >> The procedure was followed. >> Can I speak? >> No, you can't. We're done. We're done with this. We're done with this. >> Well, I'm going to take my time then
during my opening period. >> You got three minutes. Go ahead. >> All right. So here's the question. What policy or procedure does the council have in place to analyze competing applications? That's
all I want to ask because there isn't one. And I think you need to consider the fact that this man has eight licenses that are approved by the state of New Jersey. He is very physically fit for this situation. He has a lot of
experience and >> if you want to throw it out there I wanted Ernest and Young entrepreneur to you like I'll give you a whole list of things. >> Listen when we get a letter from when we get a letter Mr. Mandry from you as the
property owner saying absolutely do not proceed. Then we send the application back. You lost your spot in line >> from another entity. The entity that's here tonight. Don't mix them up. This is an entirely different situation. And I got to on that one, too.
>> Okay, if you want to really know the truth, >> you're going to get here's my question. >> What is your policy or procedure that exists with competing applications and what standards do you use to make a determination as to what entity would
have the best application before this board so you can earn your 2%. That's all I want to know. First come, first serve and this application met every criteria. That's the end of the story. There is no You're out. You're out. >> There is none. >> They had sight plan approval. It's all political.
>> Sour grapes, Bill. You shouldn't have sent the letter. >> I don't have to. He made an application. >> You're out. >> He has an application. >> You're out. >> Excuse me. >> You're out. >> I don't want >> You're You're number three. We're We're going to adopt number two tonight and
you're done. >> So, what's your policy? How do you make that determination? >> That's our policy. You just heard it. >> What is it? Is it written anywhere? Is there an ordinance that determines who you select? >> This isn't a court. You're done. Let's move on. >> What is it? Answer my question, council,
cuz you can't answer it. >> This is public comment. This is >> No, we take them as they come in. You withdrew your application. >> Take them as they come. Come on. >> Exactly. As they come in in time. Okay. You withdrew your application. >> You have >> You sent me There has to be an award.
supposed to be guns. You have none. >> You sent us a letter saying in no way, shape, or form did you want to move forward with the applicant that was purchasing your property. That was someone else. >> But that's the one that's the one.
>> They didn't know what they were doing. >> I I'm sorry that that happened, Bill. Okay. But like I said, that application is the one we sent back. >> Okay. Do you want to know? He may see but these these other two applications have gone through the process of going
before the land use board getting the site plan approvals that is absolutely irrelevant. You don't have a policy or procedure in place and >> that's it Bill. Sorry you're done. You're 3 minutes off. >> Have that policy. >> That's it. You're done.
>> You'll be removed next. >> We have an officer here. You you'll be out of here. I don't want to holler, Bill, but like I said, >> you didn't answer my question, though. >> I TOLD YOU FIRST COME, first serve. >> Originally, we only had one or one one
license, and we bet and went to two. If we get to the point where you're third, you'll be third in line if we want to go with another application. All right, let's move on. uh hearing and adoption of the 2026 budget
as approved by the mayor and council on May 19th uh 2026 meeting. I have a tidbit here that I need to uh read. Do we have any comments from our auditor at all? Anything you would like to state?
>> Uh no, just that um the budget remains unchanged from your introduced budget. Your proposed local tax levy is 5,7355.86. And for the average assessed home, that's about $13 a month.
>> All right. So, I'd like to open the uh 2026 budget up to public comment. Can I have somebody move that forward? Senator move. >> All right. I'm opening the floor up to public comment about the budget for
2026. If anybody would like to come forward, ask questions, uh, make statements, come forward. My auditor is here. But you said the average increase was $13 a month. >> Yes.
>> And that's on a home valued at >> at aboutund just a little under 173,000. So even for our homes that are 300 and some thousand, you're talking $26 a month >> rough thing.
>> Seeing no public comment, uh I'd like to close and adopt our 2026 resolution or uh um budget, please. So move second, Steve. Mr. Rinsky, >> yes.
>> Mr. Letti, >> yes. >> Mr. Still, >> yes. >> Mayor Slack, >> yes. Be it resolved by the council members of the township of Poakhan County of Waring that the budget here be within set forth is hereby adopted and shall constitute
an appropriation for the purpose stated of the sums therein set forth as appropriations and authorized of the amount of 5,735,586 for municipal purposes and 168,4 $497.13
for open space, recreation, farmland, and historic preservation trust fund levy. So, it is adopted. Everybody worked hard, especially our auditor and our VA to get that to a uh
good good number. All right. Now, we have an RFP for our municipal court prosecutor. Thank you, Mom. Thank you. >> Have a safe ride home. >> You want to >> We only got one. >> We have one RFP to open for municipal
court prosecutor. Looks like we got a thumb drive here as well. Okay. The uh one application we received is from Stephanie P. Tedimemer, Esquire. Um it
okay it appears just superficially to be complete but obviously that we'll have to take a look at that. Um I'm just trying to see to give you guys an idea what it >> you want to thoroughly review it and then bring it back to our next
>> Yeah, I think we'll we'll hold on to it. It's quite extensive. We did a pretty comprehensive bid spec. So yeah, we we have 60 days to make an award or to reject this the bid that we had. So I'll go through it and I'll get back to our BA. >> Sounds good.
attorney's report. Kevin, what do you have for us tonight? >> Uh, we need a short executive session for contractual matters. Um, with respect to the former EI project, I think you guys got all those figures. So, I just I talked with Scott earlier. I just want
to go over that with you very quickly in the executive. We won't have to take action, but I just want a way forward. Um, other than that, we will be shortly breaking ground on the uh the warehouse at the former Philipsburg Mall property.
And as you guys know, that's basically six the mall, the new piece of the construction is 60% of Patcon, roughly 40% of us. Uh, they have their own building department. We use the state. Uh, we worked out an arrangement with them on the UCC building permit
inspections only. our own engineer will be doing all our own site plan reviews pursuant to escros that we establish. So all the site work will be in Wayne's control and I think that's a great idea. But just for the building inspection portion um we've worked out a shared
services agreement with the township of Laccon. Basically they'll they'll do all the inspections. They'll collect all the fees. They're going to take a 10% administrative fee off the top, which I think is fair, and then the rest, you know, whatever is left over, we'll split 6040, which is basically the the
percentage of of of property that's in each respective municipality. Um, I've looked at it. It's it's pretty straightforward. If you guys don't have a problem with that, we could make a motion to authorize the mayor to execute that this evening. We could add that to motions. >> Add that to motions.
>> Yeah, >> I'm okay with that as long as you are. I'm I'm fine with it. I'm fine with it. >> Um everything else >> different property. >> No, you I don't know why you're here, but this is this is the mall
reconstruction of the warehouse. Excuse me. >> This is the warehouse that's going to be breaking ground where the former mall property used to be. >> Yes, that this is an inspection shared service. Um so we'll add that to the motion's calendar. Beyond that,
everything else I can mention as we go through the agenda there. >> Okay. Wayne, what do you have for an engineers report? >> Sure. So, uh you'll be happy to know that the uh guide rail grants are submitted to DOT and we have items on the agenda to uh authorize the Morris
County co-op contractor to do that. Uh so, we'll finally be able to move that forward. I I do have a correction to the uh uh resolutions though. I mistakenly didn't uh update the co-op contractor at the top. So, it's ML Robertton, um, which is actually listed in the
resolution, but not at the top. So, we'll probably just have to change the name of the resolution, but the the dollar amounts and everything are correct. >> Yeah. Um, but so those are on the agenda tonight for both uh 2024 and 2025 grants. >> Um,
Ohio and Persing are submitted for reimbursement. I was told 75% reimbursement is already coming back on Ohio. That's the bigger dollar value one anyway. We tried to process what we could. So, uh, that's getting a lot closer. Um, we submitted the local freight grant this year. We were not
awarded the grant. Um, they took a surprisingly low number. I think, you know, it's like the well's been running dry on the grants lately. Uh, they took less than 50% of the applicants, which is way below previous. Um, I'd recommend, you know, the work's been done, so I think we just submit it here
to here as it comes up and hope we, you know, we did at one point. It costs nothing because the work's already put into it, but that won't be till December. >> Um, we made the 2026 application to DOT for Mountain Joy Road. Uh, so that application is in and submitted. Uh,
should hear about that uh late fall. Uh, we worked with Jen to reassess uh or um reapply with the tax map submissions. Um, you know, she got I think her end all squared up. So, that's back at the state and we're awaiting their comments, but you know, hopefully this should be
the the next set of comments should be the last uh to get that resolved. Um I've had it on for a few months, but the uh Aqua's coming in to do lead line uh as well as water main replacements. Uh so, we have some pretty big ones coming
in. Um the one they just submitted is New Jersey, March, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Middle Sex. Um, you know, the nice thing about it is, you know, we have some really old water infrastructure. So, on top of getting that repaired, we're also going to get some nice, you know, new clean paved roads because they're going
to be doing half widths or full widths. >> Are they using a different contractor than they did before? >> They haven't specified a contractor yet. This is just the permit phase. So, we don't know who who's going to end up. >> Didn't we have some problems before though, Wayne? >> Yeah, that Well, that was the lead line replacements. Apparently, they kicked
that contractor off of their next phase of work. So any of the >> that was my concern. >> Yeah, the lead line work is being done by a different contractor now. And um you know, we complained about a couple of the alleys they left in terrible shape. Um the project manager directly
with Aqua um agrees he's going to try to fix it. What they want to do first though is they want to replace the mains in those roads now. Um and so they're applying for various permits to do that. So once they get the permits from the state that allow them to do it, they're going to replace the line and they are
going to repave the road. So they've committed to doing the work. Um you know, I didn't they can only go as fast as the state will let them, but I think this is a better solution. Why get it repaved and not have a new line uh on top of it? Um Silver Hill Road, um I
think we've done all our portions. Um you know, we got the easements. I think you guys were waiting on the uh contractor bids, right? Yep. So, I think that's kind of the last step of the whole deal. So, but I haven't heard back from Scott on, you know, >> we got one back. We're still waiting for three more. >> Okay, great.
>> Um, just v, you know, various uh other projects. The the uh alpha uh edge road uh issues. We've been driving by that. What they put in there seems to be holding up pretty well unless anybody has seen otherwise. I think that the flow has gotten better. It's in the side
of the road. >> Trickle. >> Yeah. >> Yep. So, I think it's better than it has been. Um, you know, I haven't noticed any issues, but you know, um, still keep me advised if if you see anything. Uh, the Willows, uh, is well underway in construction. I believe blasting is
complete. Um, if anybody heard anybody complaining about that, um, they've been getting a lot of sink holes, not unexpected, but they've been addressing that. That's been what they're tied up with at the moment, but they're moving along pretty quick. Uh, working on their utilities and stuff now, mainly. Um we
I've been saying this for months, but we are still waiting for a county permit to uh do the sewer inspections uh so we can do our repairs. It's we're going on like 3 months. Um it it just every time you submit what they ask for that it's one more thing. So we just gave them insurance and things and you know we're
we're still waiting to hear back. Um and finally uh our MS4 submission was done this year. Um so that's in on time. No no no issues there. Um, we have done everything we can with our Highlands grant at the moment. Um, we're just waiting on replies from them to be able
to close it out, but they have the invoices and things. So, once uh once they give a final sign off, you'll get the reimbursement uh on that and then um you know, at that point we can just move on to future grants with them because any all the unused money and there was
plenty will go back into the pot that we can apply for other other things from them. So, that's all I have. We had a quick question. The old um gas station down there in Finesville, we we still they still finishing up that phase two environmental.
>> That's my understanding. I mean, I haven't really been updated on I think Scott has been maybe incompetent on that, but I can I can check if you like. >> Yeah, I don't think I don't think anything's happened there at all. It's all over the road with weeds. >> Well, because I've been driving by, too, and I noticed the same thing. We >> follow I'd like to get that clean sold,
>> right? I'd like to get cleaned up on that and get that auctioned off if we can. >> Okay. I'll follow up. >> Okay. Thanks, Wayne. >> All right. We'll go through council now. We'll start we'll start on the other end. We'll start with you, Steve. How >> I don't I don't have anything. >> Have anything?
>> Nelson? >> Uh, no. I don't I don't have anything to add. I I unfortunately I screwed up my calendar and I missed the meeting with Musk. >> I can get a summary from uh Tyler at the next environmental and bring it back. >> That's good. But I appreciate that. But I'm going to reach out to him. I'm going
to reach out to Ben and catch up a bit on that as well as the uh Delaware Scenic River uh and some of the other historic properties and things like that. So, I I'm working on that and I will have something for the next meeting. >> Thank you, Nelson. >> John was passed. So, that's all I have
for the finance and then uh you have any questions with >> I was up to see the >> Oh, the new sports field. >> Yeah. So, the community fields up there are uh they've got the snack stand done. They have the press box and they went up for two days. It was very >> Yeah, I was there when the guys were
doing press box. They they banged it out. So now um the school board has been poured and then that's going to go up hopefully this week and then you have uh JCPL next week's coming with all the electric >> and then you have um the final pour for
like a round and steps um for where the for the press box and everything that's going to be done this week and then um pretty much then then it's kind of the next phase of hopefully pavilion and then walking path and things like that. >> Will you guys be on schedule to yeah start this fall then?
>> Yep. everything. Yeah, the grass has finally grown and everything has been uh you know it's been growing nice there. We've been adding some uh >> Do you have to have any kind of inspections by like any athletic association? >> No, the league the league is uh I mean the league may come and look at it but I mean it's from the old field we have for
now it's uh it's in really good shape. And then the the two fields next to it for practice fields that's coming along nice as well. And uh things are uh you know going quickly. guys have any bleachers set up for? >> No, there's no bleachers. Just because of ADA for you to do bleachers, it's so expensive. So, a lot of people just use
chairs and things like that. Once you do bleachers, they have to worry about ramps and so you're talking, you know, a couple hundred thousand dollar for that. So, we just uh you know, we just put a rope around or fence around the field and um then parents will just sit with chairs and and go from there. Great. The only thing I had, and you saw it as
well, Kevin, is the young lady there on uh River Road inquiry about the uh lot down there. >> I believe you answered all her questions in those emails. >> We had actually got over a year ago, did a whole analysis of properties we own
with the idea of trying to get some back on the tax roles either by auction or offering them to adjoining lot owners. Um, so we we put several on we have to do that by ordinance. We adopted the ordinance, but then as a double check, I checked our lossy list, which is our our
open space restricted properties that we can't do anything with. There were two properties on there that were in our ordinance. So, we're not doing anything with those. And the third one was that FEMA property down on the river, and that's actually deed restricted as well. And she was asking about, you know,
whether she could >> lease it, >> lease it or something, but it You can't lease for private purposes. That's basically public public. >> What would stop us to put in a a uh dock intersecting? >> Parking is the only issue though.
There's no no parking here, >> but technically it's open public space. >> Yeah, >> we'll have to see. >> You get approval from the dock. I don't know who you get that from, but >> Well, there there's places you can get that. I don't know if they're state approved though, but there's a couple of
>> We could we could we could do that as a we could probably put in for that. >> We probably even put in through open space. >> Well, we or we could put in through a recreation grant. >> Well, food for thought for the future. >> Yeah. But we bottom line is we have to hold on to the other ones we will be I'll be
getting information from general and joining property owners and offering them the other lots, >> you know, which would merge into property, >> right? just line adjustments. >> All right, we have some resolutions here tonight. Everybody want to take a look
at the resolutions, see if there's any we need to take separately, but there's several. >> When did you say we're changing the name on one of those resolutions? >> Yeah, the the uh 2026 and 2025 guide rail. It's correct in the resolution. Just the title still
said road safety. They've had that contract forever. They got displaced by ML Rubberton. >> No. >> Um, so it's listed correctly with the correct numbers. It just changed the title. >> So, we can just note that. >> Yep.
>> And again, we've scaled this to be within the grant. So, you know, we're doing this to try to be neutral to the budget. >> Nobody has any issues. I'd like to take all those resolutions together. So moved.
>> Second. >> Mr. Vincy. >> Yes. >> Mr. Lozetti? >> Yes. >> Mr. Stilof? >> Yes. >> Mayor Slack? >> Yes. Just food for thought. Noel, the liquor license, is that for one particular property or >> it's for all of them. >> All of them.
>> They all had to be in by the end of this month. >> All right. Ordinances for first reading, we have none. Ordinances for second reading, we have it looks like two ordinances.
So Kevin, you want to just give a summary on both of those and we'll open it up to public comment? Uh, ordinance 2606 um was actually worked on by both myself, Wayne, and our zoning officer at our zoning officer
suggestion because if you recall in that R4 zone, the the way the zoning was set up, every time a resident wanted to do something, it became a variance. And when you see that many variances coming in, then obviously the ordinance isn't compatible with the existing development of the
town. So, working with Wayne and working with our zoning officer, we basically ex uh reduced some of the setbacks, uh increase some of the impervious coverages reasonably so, so that people can, you know, put in a little deck or
put in a shed or do something with their backyard without constantly have to spend the money, time, and effort going to our board for variance. So, that that's that ordinance. Um, the second ordinance uh was a vehicles and traffic amendment. We had a wrong name on one of
the intersecting streets. I forget which one it was, but we just it was just a name street name correction on a on a stop sign intersection that the chief had brought to our attention. Um, I don't remember which street it was. I don't know if you do, but
>> and that was it. All right. I'll entertain a motion to open those two up for public comment. >> So move. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Anybody like to come forward and make any comments about either one of those ordinances?
Seeing none, I'd like to close and adopt. >> Move. Second. >> Mr. Binsky. >> Yes. >> Mr. Letti? >> Yes. >> Mr. Still? >> Yes. >> Mayor S? >> Yes. Anybody have any old business? we'd like
to talk about tonight. >> New business. >> Yeah. No, >> this public comment. This is business amongst council, >> but public comments coming right up next. So, >> thank you. >> No problem.
Hearing no new or old business, we have some motions. Everybody want to take a look at the motions? Do want to do them separately? Yes. >> All of them or the last one that we just added? The one for sheriff service for local. >> No, no, for for the uh Well,
>> yeah, it's the sheriff sheriff service for inspection. >> All right. For the inspection, you're saying Steve, the added one. >> One, two, three, four, five. Well, I can take these six that are on the on the existing motion together. >> All right. No problem, Steve. We'll leave that one last then.
>> So, the the six that are on our agenda, does anybody have any issues taking all them together? Nope. So move still >> second. >> Mr. Binsky. >> Yes. >> Mr. Lazetti. >> Yes. >> Mr. Still. >> Yes. Mayor SL.
>> Yes. And then the added motion. >> The you had a motion. Mayor, again, let me just clarify. This would be a motion to authorize the mayor and clerk to execute a shared service with Opacon for the inspections for the new mall that that's going up.
I'm sorry. The new warehouse is going up where the old mall was. That's all this is. This has been approved for years um in both townships. So um this doesn't deal with any other property. This this is dealing with the the new mall that's
going to be break the new warehouse is going to be breaking ground in like August that we've already had pre-construction conferences with. And all we're doing here is allocating the inspection fees between the two townships. That's all we're doing.
That's the That's That's your It's very It's a very Yeah. >> Okay. >> I'll move that motion forward. >> Second, >> Mr. Pavinsky. >> On what I'm saying, >> Mr. Lazetti? >> Yes. >> Mr. Still? >> Yes. >> Mayor Slack?
>> Yes. Okay. Now, public comments. Don't all run to the front at once, but anybody that would like to make public comment and as I I'm going to state right out of the gate, we have nothing to do with the mall property behind the mall or the
warehouse behind the mall. That's all we pulled out before. We're going to permanently preserve Po Hackcon's portion. And I don't know, are they going to even deed it to us? I think Kevin, no. >> Uh I think it's going to be deed restricted. deed restricted, but they're
going to maintain ownership. >> But they're not even going to run any of the roads through Pohak. Correct. >> Deed restricted completely. No, no, no improvements on the Pak. >> So, with that said, if anybody like to come forward now and make public
comment, please come forward. And uh >> I just had a question directly related to maybe some comment. U Matthew Watts who worked at the school over there. Yeah, we know each other. Um, so you said that you guys have nothing to do with that, right? But I went to the Highlands Council meeting last month and
if so is Low Hackong using part of Po Hackong's impermeable surface for this wonderful finally getting something done. Are they using that in the calculation for impermeable surface in order for the property behind it to be
classed as in need of redevelopment? I I have no idea what the development on the Pacon lot looks like to be honest with you whether or whether they're including this property as as part of impervious coverage calculations. The our they
asked us the Lakcon asked us and we've wor been working with Leakcom very closely for years over there. Uh starting with the mall property um more recently the this the significant residential property that is accessed off 22. We work with them for
access through the mall property for emergency access. So we you know try to maintain comedy with our municipal neighbors. Um though Pacon asked us to be a co-licant. We ultimately withdrew initially from
that because we didn't want any development because of a variety of environmental constraints on the Paccom portion. Uh they we were then reapproached by the developer and the township of Hackcon saying hey what if we restrict no development impleon would
you at least be a courtesy co-licant and that's what we did and that was the limit of our involvement we haven't done any of the advertising or anything else in that regard without raising hands it's one at a time sir and so that that's that's the limit of Hackcon's
involvement I don't know what's going to end up being built there in terms of square footage or anything. And what I can tell you is nothing's being built on the the Laccon lot and block that and that's all we can really say about it. I don't I don't really know where where it goes from there in terms of you know
their development approvals or processes in the Pacon. That'll all be in Lacon. >> Okay. >> Understood. Right. >> The at the at the highest council meeting and I understand the trying to be with our neighbors. Right. Right. Um, but at the Highlands Council meeting
then the the way that low pack was able to get that approved and voted on by the Highlands Council because it's Highlands protected as you guys are all aware >> is by using the calculation of impermeable surface that at the mall property in order for them to get that >> okay
>> not not the mall itself the rest of the po portion of that property. >> They they use nothing to do with the old mall. >> Nothing. Well, if if they were able if they're able to do that, >> two different two different properties when the entire thing was approved
because of the infirmary services the law property to my understanding >> this application what happens they would then just get a new application and if we would have drawn if we would have pulled out they would have got a new application it would delay us 6 months and then the 24 acres that would be deed restricted then that developer can then
put stuff right next to park side which we don't want. So >> any event, but what whatever Highlands decide to do is really that's the Highlands Council's jurisdiction. But yeah, I mean I'm not suggesting in any way, shape or form that somehow the property in Bohackcon they weren't able
to somehow utilize as part of their presentation to the Highlands Council and and perhaps perhaps you know just deed restricting it they were able to use as part of an impervious coverage calculation. That that's perfectly possible. That's very common in land use. But all I all we were concerned
about is you know Lil Pacconhon has to look out for Lil Paccon. That was kind of the way we looked at it. We were looking out for our side, our property. There were a lot of concerns about environmental constraints there. So I I mean we made the decision as a council
at the time that with a deed preservation commitment, we would be a co-licant under that circumstance. And that that's what happened >> to keep those 24 acres on being >> and that that's and that I believe at one point the Highlands council denied it then they considered that there's
been a long tortured history there to be honest with you but we really have not been involved. We in terms of all that the Pacons's had to carry the load on the advertising and doing all those things those types of things. I mean, we had residents from Low Pacon here, I can
remember, at meetings asking us questions about what Lacon was doing >> and we were dumbfounded because like we need to go talk to Lacon, not us. Like, we don't know what they're doing. Like, that's their part of the project. Talk to them. And I don't want to say they weren't very
>> well >> forthcoming with the residents, but >> there's nothing no lack of transparency on our part. You know, any advertising >> like initially we had bought into it. we were going to let him go ahead and as this thing went on we got kind of you know and I said no we're pulling out that's it we're not going to have our
side developed we had too much objection from the residents and for the little bit of the project that would end up in Poakon it wasn't worth the aggravation and that's when we pulled out and then the developer came back to us with this compromise that if they would deed
restrict those 24 acres would we consider you know I don't want to say signing off. But >> well, we became a we agreed to be a co-op into the Highlands. >> So, we come up with a compromise. >> Where's the wildlife going? The animals. >> We're not going to have a shouting
match. This is This is not going to be We're devolving into chaos. This gentleman has the floor. You each going to have your turn. >> So, so, so basically that's what happened. We Yeah, we were a co-licant, basically a silent co-licant with that caveat that you can't develop our
sideline. But I'm not going to sit here and tell you that that that 24 acres didn't help them maximize their whatever they're doing over there. It may have. I don't really know because that's the pat it that's a site plan approval process
that's really going to be over there. >> So >> I mean they've got guarantee that there'll be no development on 24 acres. >> Ultimately correct. What happens is that requirements new application and they would maybe shrunk their size a little bit in low. But
>> again, we want to make sure that PO hat >> was not to be touched and now we had 24 acres of buffer because if not, they could have put a a development there. They could have done anything else with that property. And then right next to Parkside >> and with it being deed restricted, that's for perpetuity. Then we don't have to worry whether it's my lifetime
or my son's lifetime. It's only >> can never be developed. Can never be developed. that >> so they were going to do it anyway whether we were in or not. >> Just going to delay. It was just going to delay, >> you know, for them to just just just to put a new application. That's all they it saved them time not putting
application >> and then the developer could have came back and then said, "Hey, listen. We're going to put, you know, over 55 development. We're going to put low-income housing or whatever in that area right next to Parkside." And then we would have nothing because we couldn't stop. Now we can at least keep
our 24 acres again buffer from park side to wherever that is from from being you know with noise lights whatever we have 24 acres to be able to buffer. If not, we have a >> let hi. >> Hi, >> I'm Linds. Um, I live around the corner
of 519 and um I'm a little bit shocked to hear that Congress saying that we don't have anything to do with it. This is all low pad, but yet Copaccom is going to suffer the traffic, the border
issues that are bound to occur, >> the wildlife problem, which we all know exists and will only get worse. >> And all of these other issues that are attached to these types of development, this kind of warehouse thing. Um, and
I'm very disappointed in the council that we did not push harder to u respect the highlands uh act which was supposed to protect our natural light, our natural world from this exact type of development which is definitely not in
our best interest. I know you might have a different opinion on the matter, but I've lived here almost 40 years now, and I can tell you that the traffic has exponentially increased, especially on 519. There's very little we can apparently do to monitor the speed limit
because that just is gone. and you know the pollute, the air pollution. I mean, I went to a meeting recently and they were talking about um one of these warehouses over by Bloomsbury. I think they had put in their application that
they could handle 1,200 trucks a day. Can you imagine that? 1,200 trucks a day. And you folks are sitting here saying that it's not going to affect. It is going to affect what happened.
It's going to deeply affect and I'm just my heart is broken over it because it is just a situation that could have been avoided and >> I'd like to comment to your Highlands uh comments that that property is not in
the Highlands preservation area. >> That's in the Highlands development area. It's north of 78. >> So that's actually targeted for development. I reached out to the county a development committee originally and I
said, "Guys, is this farm in your ADA, which is their target list of farms that they would like to try to preserve?" And it was not. >> Interesting. >> Well, and the other thing I would point out that the the process that you're all here asking about, the map adjustment
process is solely within the jurisdiction of the Highlands Council. They they're the ones who developed the the Highlands regional master plan. They're the ones who originally there was a carve out there part partially their maps, you know, they their first
roll out of their mapping there were a lot of inaccuracies across the the the state to be honest with you. I mean initially even the mall property when it was a functioning Philipsburg mall that was misdesated and that ultimately had to be changed and that was basically
non-controversial. The piece in the back is basically if you looked at the Highlands map as the mayor points out, it's like a tiny hole in the donut of of a of an existing development area. That's what it's called. And so
I think I think as as Councilman Still pointed out, ultimately at the end of the day, whether we were part of that map final map adjustment or not, it was something was going to happen back there. It could have been maybe a somewhat smaller warehouse, I suppose,
if you didn't include our impervious, but that map change was going to happen. I just had a one-hour Zoom conference with the Highlands Council for another municipality that I represent and this this recent
map adjustment that you guys are here talking about was brought up and I don't think it was that is rare. you don't see them a lot and I don't think you're going to see a lot more. So, I think the fact that this one happened kind of goes
to the point that even the Highlands Council felt that not incorporating that into a developable zone when it's completely surrounded by a developable zone wasn't really sustainable. So, that that's what happened. And again, I I'm not if you're
worried about what type of warehouse or how much traffic Mhm. >> that you're going to want to go to the again they they haven't even made their development application till that time, but that's where all those public hearings will be and that that's that's where you can you know have your say and
>> yeah, >> you know, basically >> and like I said, our concern was that yeah, we didn't we pulled out then they're going to do it anyway and then we're going to be left with now >> nothing to say. >> Nothing to say. But then also too the developer comes back by the way we're now going to build on those 24 acres that we're now going to be deed
restricted. So it's sometimes you got to lose a battle in the war. And so what happened we were like we got to keep Po Hackcon you know what as much as we can because if not they're going to do it anyway because that's what Blow Patch choice you know they're they're choosing these warehouses and you know back there and listen we love Nutrino there but
unfortunately we had to look for for us and Parkside because I talked to a lot of Parkside residents. we had to protect them because if not they could have you know what built something there um and then it would been been worse. >> I did reach out to two county commissioners and flat out asked them
both if the county would have any interest in trying to preserve it as a preserved farm. And they said that they would if they had a willing participant. And that's the whole thing. You have to have an entity on the other end that's willing to want to do it. And obviously
it comes down to dollars and cents, right? >> But I even did reach out to the CADB and they said that they would support it if we put in um an a development area. I tried to find other ways to but without a willing participant, i.e. the land
owner. I I don't want to say our hands are tied, but it's it's tough. Well, yeah, I'm greatly disappointed um because now I see there's um warehouse over here on Edge Road. There's one out. Neither one of those are occupied from
what I understand. >> And there's going to be one empty o over in Lope too. >> And now we got another. >> When's that going to stop? Like when do we say when can we say or can we ever just is it just money? like these folks just have a lot of money and they're
just going to come in and do whatever they want to do and we can't stop them. Like what's the deal? What do we do? What can what do you you tell us? >> That's a rhetorical that's a that's a rhetorical question but we appreciate the comment but I think we should try to move on. We have a lot of people here if
anybody else wants to speak and then if not we can circle back to >> Thank you. Thank you for your comments. >> Thank you for your time. Anybody else like to make public comments? >> My name is Eric Hair. I have a statement, but
my mind is just kind of exploding over what I just heard that you had pulled out of this because you considered all the environmental impact and all of the harms that it was creating and then because the developer came back and I
assume that to be maybe Mr. Brucci and his friend Senator Steinhart and then you changed your mind >> man. We changed our mind to pull out. Initially we had went along with it. >> Yeah. Well,
that's really upsetting because you did the right thing initially, >> but we had we had to come up with a compromise. >> So say they were going to do it anyway. So what happens when originally it is going to be on our property that's why we pulled out then all of a sudden it
went to their property but then they can come back and just reapply and it's going to go there anyway and then they could have done whatever they want for those 24 acres >> and can I ask you >> they can reapply >> which commissioners
uh well not just has have people tried to speak with this owner you know have the commissioners tried to reach Uh um I mean I personally could. It's still owned by a private entity from what I gathered from my tax assessor the
other day when she researched for me. >> But there again, I know the money that's involved and I don't think the countyy's going to even come close to what the offer is. I mean, when the county bought the ground behind the Lowe's, I think they
paid 30 or 32,000 an acre for that farm to buy it outright from the builder. >> And then they turned around and sold it. I don't know what the residual value was, $8 or $10,000 an acre. But we're talking, you're probably talking $60,000
an acre for this property. And unless the countyy's willing to come up with that kind of change or close to it, I I don't see the land owner changing his mind. >> I'm wondering if there isn't a way for, you know, granted I understand the SADC
came back and said this is not uh a preservable piece of property, but there might be other sources of funds out there. Oh, I'm sure open space or green acres, I'm sure that's another whole avenue, you know, to turn it into a
giant park. But there again, that would be on the county and and Low Paccon to want to consider it. I mean, you have to look at it from Low Pacon side, too. They're they're going to get a huge ratable. If they build a park there, it's a big goose egg. And I hate to always talk about money, but you know,
we sit up here and try to make our budgets tight as we can. You heard our budget tonight. And I can't say Low Packon is in the same kind of straits we are. They've had a lot of development lately. I don't know what their cash flow is like. It's not really my business. I don't want to know, but I
know what we deal with on a day-to-day basis. >> I understand. I think it's just that the Paccom piece is a conservation zone and we are talking about the Laccom wershed.
>> I I agree. I was I was down there when the firehouse flooded. I was helping our firefighters sweep the water out of the firehouse because the creek overflowed that it couldn't carry the water from obviously the new warehouses behind Ingresaw Ran
that all dumps down into that. The one over there on Max Reed's old farm that dumps into it as well. >> Huge issue. >> So I I can I can sympathize there 100%. So maybe we should be reaching out to the commissioners and seeing if there
are other other ways to >> Well, the the the county the county commissioners meet they have public meetings that you guys can certainly attend and they're right out there on the Belvadier Pike and on a regular basis and I think that's
>> if you want to make convey that message and of course the mayor can do that and I can talk you know we can all talk but really constituents probably have a have more of an impact. So, you know, these are things I would say you don't go down there and during their public comment raise these concerns. But again, I would
also just indicate that the I don't know what what exactly what that where I mean, we've seen a few schematics over the years, but I don't know where it's ultimately gone in terms of square footage or what they're going to do, but I can just tell you that again, the what the Highlands map change didn't approve
any specific project. That still has to be fully engineered, fully presented to the Pacon Township's planning board. So storm water, >> it wasn't even >> all those things, was it? >> Well, they can't get in the sewer
service area till they got the map adjustment. So the the dominoes will start falling uh with the map adjustment. But again, I would emphasize that that was ultimately a Highlands Council decision >> and Highlands Council, >> you know, again, they also have public
meetings, too, and they're pretty stringent with their with their designation. So change that topic because right now I can't speak to the highlands council. Not happy. Not happy about that. >> Well, there's been some additions there before.
>> We'll be visiting them again as well. >> But I just want to emphasize that that there you know there's going to be I'm sure multiple public hearings at the land use levelcon and you know to the extent you have these concerns I would definitely encourage you to attend. And of course,
you know, we we have an engineer that sits up here and we we have a land use board and part of part of our municipal engineers jobs is to make sure that the, you know, site improvement standards are are satisfied. And I can tell you this, the storm water ordinances in the state
of New Jersey at this point, which are all mandated by D, we basically all have the same storm water ordinances at this point. Um, they're they're very they're tough. They're tough. I'm not, you know, and I'm not, I understand things have happened in the past, but I can tell you since those last warehouses that you
guys were talking about, the storm order standards and Wayne could speak, you know, Mr. Ingram could speak more this even than I from an engineering standpoint, but they're they've been drastically uh improved. So, I can only give you that bit of uh optimism if I can.
Whatever happens there is going to be subject to much higher standards in 2026 than they were just just even a couple years ago. total house and it's still going to be putting storm water into the lac concrete in the whole area concrete
>> anything back there putting stuff in the creek negative impact completely environmentally it will produce flooding for residents it will produce air pollution noise pollution light pollution it will be a 380,000
plus square foot warehouse so no matter what you tell me about you know the storm pump water regulations and everything that being as best and tight and all that, it's still a warehouse that's going to produce all these negative impacts on coatcom residents
and >> I mean the only thing we can control is what's in our town. I'm sorry. At the end of the day, that's what it comes down to, which we tried to. And what the irony of all that is is the Highlands Council and the state um planning
commission development planning commission with their warehouse guidelines talk in depth about how we should be looking at things regionally region and I know that's not how the land use boards work and how we are required to look at applications but
regional impact with warehouse draw and the woman previously spoke about how there are so many out there. I I >> I did I did want to just change and ask have we looked at a I thought I heard that you were having discussion about
data center ordinance. >> We are. >> So that's in discussion right now >> trying to figure out how we can put it on the books to prohibit it as a not a permitted use. >> Thank you. because I can tell you that 12 other townships in W County right now
have uh either updated their their ordinances including Lat we're working on right now. I know Greenwood put one on Alpha did >> Lat had one in the works but it got shot down or they had to start over. I don't know. But
>> they just recently um >> did they adopt it? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Because when I talked to Lori about it, she said that something was wrong and they had to do it again. I thought, but that was >> two weeks ago. >> Yeah. >> No, we're we're we're definitely working on that because
>> the first screening there, but it's too pro now. They went through a process. First, it was full on data centers, then it was conditional, and now it's proit. I mean, I would reach out to the county and urge the county to go to the SADC
just like they did with the farms up there in White Township that Jandel had bought. >> On every single meeting, >> well, I know >> this this could be the same route and and I understand uh Mayor Piaza, I think, did the same thing in Philipsburg
with the property behind the uh >> Howard Street. Howard Street back by the old scrapyards. So it it is feasible and that same developer is as you know the developer that's doing this. So it it is feasible if they have a willing
participant. >> So we should read as a speaking with the state agriculture development. >> Yeah. Like I said the state came from what I what I understood the state came in and just bought out Jandle. Just bought it out. They're going to turn around and then sell it as a preserved
farm. He walked away. Were you talking about How Street or what? >> No, no. White Town. >> They he got a good $26 million on that deal, >> right? Well, and they're they're in part there in lies part of the problem because you've now established a benchmark
>> and everybody else who wants a buyout's going to want similar values. And I I believe me, that discussion's been had. And again, I'm not saying that was a bad move to uh to purchase that, but like you just mentioned, that that was a very
expensive purchase. And so now you have the guy behind the mall and elsewhere saying, "Well, if they're getting that much per acre, what why why aren't we?" And and you get you run into a limited pot of money. Absolutely. You know, that they're they're in lies part of the problem. But I mean, >> quite happening right now at the state
level. But >> I mean at that time the state agricultural development committee was out in the press all over the place saying please come to us preserve farmland. We have the money. That was just two years ago.
>> We we probably have I think we're number one in the county here in Bhakcon in terms of preserved acreage. I mean we've we've done an enormous amount of that over the years >> over the last 25 years. >> We had a council member here Steve >> Kihei. he was the one that initiated a lot of that.
>> Absolutely outstanding and Steve's still around and he actually worked at the D. Um we have done an enormous amount of that and we we uh you just heard part of our budget is a continuation of our open space tax. Um so and and again the other
thing this council did many years ago and I've been here longer than I'd like to think at this point but many many years ago when the islands first came out um and I know council Minsky was here. and I were both here. Um, we actually had the legislation changed to
move the preservation area boundary all the way to 78. We we actually put about what 80% of this township, Steve, >> into the preservation area. And we had our then engineer, Cherry Weber, we did a whole report. we, you know, supplemented their studies and that line
I that was one that's one of the few spots that I know of in the state of New Jersey where the where a municipality asked for the preservation area boundary to be extended. So, we've we've done an enormous amount in this township over the years. Um, you know, warehouses and data centers are >> absolutely
>> are the are the thing to jour but I would suggest the county, you know, you got if you want stuff to happen at the freeholders, you're going to have to go there just like you're here. >> Absolutely. and and SADC, I will say, has stepped up. They've increased their funding amount to 80% now on
preservation. So, >> I mean, I'm not I'm not being critical. or you are not used to consider like I'll just read my last lines here that we did it as
control over this precious home farmland and do whatever it takes to withdraw your portion of the farm clim that contains this farmland from the local home redevelopment application if that is at all possible but we will also do
all the things WE'RE SUGGESTING THANK EVENING COUNCIL MARTIN ALIMOS. Um back again to bring up Airbnbs. We've been down here mountains roads before. Um my previous neighbor Rich Mason who is no longer my neighbor has
sold most of his properties due to the um his property surrounded and it is summertime and I don't get to enjoy my property any weekend from Friday to Sunday night because it's blasting all weekend long.
Two weeks ago, we had about 15 cars on Meltzwood Road, which you know, that road is pretty much one lane road. Um, there's trash that's left on the road. I can hear music and loud screaming, volumes of people inside my house on a
Sunday morning when I'm trying to enjoy my breakfast with my door open. And peace and quiet is why I bought that house in that area. I've lived there since 2009. It's peace and quiet. Airbnbs should there there's
there's no control with this Airbnb with this gentleman that that's running this place. Uh I'm sure there's an occupancy uh limit. He's exceeding that. Um his advertisement on Airbnb says it sleeps
what is it? Five, >> eight. Oh, the driveway is a U-shaped driveway and it holds six cars. So just imagine how many people fit in six cars. Most of these cars are from New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts, nowhere
near. They come up and down our road creating havoc. >> The parking is put >> um I just had somebody two weeks ago >> do a shady K turn in my driveway while I'm sitting in my garage working on my vehicles. Do a K turn in my driveway
back into Mr. Le's field. run over his crops. And you know how less would how piss off Les would be. >> Oh, I'm sure I know less good. >> Ran over his crops and then proceeded to drive through the front of my property and destroy two of my American flags that I display on my property because I
serve this country and I display those flags on my property for my brothers and sisters that I lost serving. >> They disrespected me on my property. >> Who would regulate? Would the zoning officer be the one? I want to say maybe
I think again this has been a problem. I mean you talk about warehouses another problem that's kind of >> becoming more of a problem if you will statewide. Um I think maybe three, four or five years ago we put a very basic ordinance in place. >> Maybe we need to tighten it up a little.
>> But I just recently drafted a much stronger ordinance for another municipality that is similar to Blackcon. A lot of people coming out from the city so forth. But yes, we can put restrictions on the number of people, all kinds of things like that. So, um
>> I mean I'm rent to Airbnbs. When I travel, I go to ball games and things like that. I've gone to New Orleans and I had to give copies of IDs of every single person that was staying in that house. >> I will. >> Now, who did you have to give that to? To the municipality or the parish or
whatever? >> So, so the owner of the property submits all that to the city of Northeast. >> Okay. So they they want to know who's staying in these houses, too. Um, now New Orleans is the greatest place to stay, but again, they want to know who's
in your city and who's staying. >> I think there are some things we can definitely do um to to address some of the issues you're talking about, especially the amount of people in them, all those things. >> And it's not like they're courteous either when they're when they're parking on the street. Yeah,
>> I will, mayor, what I'll do is I'm going to I'm going to circulate to you guys for to consider before our next meeting. >> We'll get we'll start working on tighter draft ordinance and um Jim Kyle, our planner, is also excellent on that. So, Jim and I between Jim and I, we'll we'll
we'll make a commitment to tighten that up. >> As far as the noise, call the inside number downstairs. And I have I called these gentlemen out numerous times and and I've had I've even told dispatch, please send them to my house first so that way they can hear what I'm hearing. You know, my neighbor behind me on 519,
Charlie, he's called numerous times to have them come out and address the noise and they'll come up, they'll address the situation, they'll leave >> and as soon as they're going to turn it right back. >> I deal with the same I deal with the same stuff on Ravine Road now. It's summertime.
>> I hear him down there. It's It's >> exhaust. It really does. You know, if if I can work in my garage and and have music on my garage and you can't hear in my driveway, but I can hear yours 200 yards away, that's a problem. >> I I think we can definitely um do some things and especially to be honest with
you, you guys are even in a more favorable position here because you do have an excellent local police department. >> And so I know but I mean I think you we'll have you know, you're fortunate here in Paccom because if we do an ordinance like that, there's enforcement power.
You know, some of the municipalities I represent rely upon state police coverage and frankly that's very difficult. So, you guys have a great department here. So, we'll we'll start working on that. To be honest with you, I think this Airbnb thing is catching on because my other neighbor at the end of my road now, he's right now a property
that he just acquired across the street from him and he's got the gentlemen that are doing all the line work here and they're making that road a complete >> uh a mess. I mean, they're parked trailers with cable reels on it. >> Yeah. Less less brought brought some of
the hardware that they were leaving in his yard. So, >> and they did the same thing on our property trees up, left all the debris in the yard. >> How many Airbnbs do you think is on your on Melwood switch just >> right now? Probably too because everybody else has been there long
enough. These are two two properties that you know people recently transferred >> and and they were acquired and my neighbor up the road, he's lived there longer than we have, but he heard about the Airbnb and the profit this guy's making. I just looked it up. He has uh
the 26th to the first, he has it listed for $3,500 to stay there and not a single promotion for the township. It's you can go to Crayola's factory, you can go to Iron Pits, you can go to Lehigh University. Well, yes, everything is PA based.
>> Nothing nothing for any of the business. >> Well, actually, actually the newer ordinances and that will be in the one that I'm going to be preparing, but we can actually and the state will collect this for us, but we can actually impose a 3% occupancy tax uh for Airbnbs. And you know, these are some of the things
that we can start kind of reing this in a bit and we will um I >> and again I listen I just wanted to join the property at end of the day. I live in the woods for a reason. >> You know, I want to hear the birds and my dog and you know my chickens laying an egg. >> I don't want to hear whatever the hell music they're playing as they're
swimming in the pool and hooping and hollering and all the other >> You need some more chicken. I got too many. >> All right. We'll we'll be working we'll be working on that. >> Did you say that the line the guys who were doing line work are setting up shop on some property over there? >> Yeah. And I to be honest with you, the
house is uh in the process of being remodeled. Um I mean I'm just curious about that cuz that to me that's like they came in here, they asked for a permit to be running up and down the roads putting all their lines up. I know they got to do the work. They we have to give them a permit. They have a permit, but you
know, they don't have a right necessarily to stage themselves as a commercial operation >> on on property that's not zone. >> Go to my end go to the end of my road right now and there's three bucket trucks jammed in that little park or the little driveway there and then there's
probably three or four cars parked in the yard and they're out of state. They're they're not >> Is there any storage of like other stuff or is it just the truck? >> Oh, they were parking the trailer right on the road. Yeah. But did they did they bring any air seat containers in and drop or anything like that or no? No. >> Just everything portable.
>> Yeah. >> So, um that's my issue on the Airbnb. I would like to enjoy my property. Okay. Nothing's nice to live there long enough. You know, I hate to see, you know, again, I want somebody to enjoy their property, but I don't need to enjoy living. >> Okay. You invite me to the party. I
don't want my year. So um other my other issue uh concern is um we had a rec meeting two months ago maybe um is there permanence on positions
>> right now it's all in their bylaws um with that so I I think it's every year they have a um nominations and vote and whoever's in the I think in the audience votes and then that's how they do it. If they don't have meetings then they can't
>> and that's that's another concern is we're not having >> Yeah. I inquired about them having monthly meetings and you know they they've been very sporadic on that. So but yeah that's how that's how it would work is that I think in December they have because it goes June January 1st to December 31st. That's the the terms for
them. So they would have probably usually in December or November or December at those meetings they should have uh elections every year. So, I would just get a copy of the bylaws, okay, >> and look at that because that will get you the road map. >> The reason I bring that up is I've coached the uh girls softball program
for about the last six or seven years. Um, there was a new director put in place. She made a decision to move the league or team into a Pennsylvania league. Um, we didn't get to vote on that as residents. Uh, which again I thought
that should be brought to the table and it should be an option for residents. you're affecting 60 families um across all levels and that wasn't the case. This was a decision made by three people that affected 60 families. >> Um
>> so yeah. So like at that meeting I was at that meeting. So they were just talking about it where the directors choose. So whoever the director is they choose kind of what leagues are going into and that's all through the director. I think that might be in their bylaws. So until I believe that is changed, you're at the mercy of what the
director is going to be proposing. Now how directors are chosen I don't know because I mean again I'll check the bylaws but I think it's really again the board chooses the directors and then directors then are in charge of >> you you saw the turnover at that meeting because a lot of a lot of families were
concerned that there was a lot of gray area on the changes that were being made and there was a lot of misleading information. >> Um so with that being said I wanted to keep my girls local. We can't play in Pohhat so we went to the next town over which is out. We ended up taking 29
girls to Alpha to play locally. That was half of your assignments that went to another township and paid registration fees to the rec program to uh to continue to play locally. Um and lastly is the batting case down there too. We
would like to have something addressed with that. That's been two years now that that's been down. >> Yeah. So that was Scott. >> Yeah. So Scott we got from Renos. We find out the quote from Renos. So, he's going to use that quote and get that constructed.
>> That's all I got, gentlemen. Thanks for >> We'll work on that Airbnb. >> All right. >> Any other public comments? >> Can I set from here? >> Yes. >> Um, my name's Trisha Bro. I live in
Philipsburg, New Jersey. for the last 44 years. Um, right on Stanley by Green Acres. Um, what and I got this in the mail.
Well, that's the one that Pro I think was circulating. Kane, I think, was the one behind that. It's backing up that anchor saw putting up warehouses and
you guys want to build on that farmland. What's going to happen to the wildlife? Right now, I have three baby fonds in my yard. Foxes run all over the neighborhood cuz
they got nowhere else to go but that farmland. I mean there again, like I said, it goes down to the gentleman that owns that and the fact that he wants to sell it. Like I wish we all could, you know, preserve all the farmland. I had 80 houses or 30
houses built on 80 acres next to my farm. But I couldn't buy the farm. I didn't have the money. So I had to look at those houses from now forever. I didn't have a choice. I wish we could persuade the gentleman that owns that to preserve it. But there again, it comes
down to dollars and cents. >> Why not travel? >> Our our acreage is >> our acreage is going to be preserved. I I can go through and I had somebody reach out to Laccon to see if Laccon would have any interest in trying to do
that. But like I said earlier, you have to have somebody that's receptive. If you don't have somebody that's receptive on the other end and only sees dollar signs, it you're you're not going to win. >> And it's not >> And and you're right, the animals do lose out.
>> Yeah. I get damaged. uh they damaged property and everything else and foxes just run. >> Like I said, we we tried to do what we
could do to keep the poacon portion of that as it is and it will be as it is. But Laccon is is a whole another ball game. >> Okay. Also another thing um right on
Lock Street, you keep going towards the industrial park towards um 22. Um there's a spot where a vehicle can fit back there.
Um >> and it looks like drug deals going down. What? >> That's I don't That's not even the Hack. >> I was going to say that's not our town. >> I don't think that's PO Hackon.
>> But yeah, there is noise vehicles. There is the same thing with the warehouses. >> There was another gentleman I believe got up wanted to make a comment. I just want to make a brief comment since we're
co-licants township so to speak. Is there any way you could delay this to give us more time because the group is getting larger and larger and this is you kind of got blindsided and being being frank cuz it to us it's
a big deal. I live in Parkside, right? And I don't want to look out my back door and that 24 acre buffer. Yes, it sounds nice, but it's not. 22 that they're not going to do any work at 22 to help ending traffic. They're not
going to do much. Is there a way since we're co- applicants delay this to give us more time to fight >> at this point? No. The Highlands Council already had their, you know, you guys probably got your notices,
all the legal notices were sent. Again, this is Highland's jurisdiction. you know, we didn't we didn't know anything. >> Yeah. >> Well, I I I can only tell you there's certain notices that are mandated. Presumably, Highlands Council looked at
that to make sure all those notices were complied with. They said we we didn't have any role and we didn't have any active role in the process. But at this point, um, from my understanding, the Highlands Council made their decision that that's been memorialized and
that, you know, that's made it speedier. >> I don't know about speedier. >> I don't know if it was speedier or not, but >> I mean, it got voted down once. >> The train the train left the station on that quite a while ago and the Highlands Council made their decision.
I mean, how you even got it reconsidered a second time is >> Well, that's that's politics. I'm not That's above my >> Yeah, I agree. >> T >> any other public comment.
>> I'd like to real quickly I just I wanted to second what he was saying, what everyone here has been saying. Thanks. It sounds like you guys feel the similarly. So I I was going to say the Highlands is having a meeting right on T on Thursday.
So perhaps any of us who can go Thursday, what is it? 4:00. >> Yeah. >> I mean, maybe if we continue the pressure because it seems like you guys you're seems like your heart's in the same kind of place. >> Well, I think I I think I think we've
been again as a matter of trying to to have decent relationships or enable. We've kind of we tried to let home rule, no Paccon be home rule. As the mayor have said repeatedly, we we ensured that our side was preserved. But again, I I I
would think I would say you're probably right. We don't really have any any hard interest in their seeing it developed either. We're kind of just trying to stay out of it to be honest with you. But if you guys go down, that's fine. But I mean, I think at this point, uh I I don't know. I mean, my understanding
is they already had their public hearings on this process and it was approved, but I don't know. >> I I was there when it went through with I was there. >> I mean, that's what I was told today on a Zoom meeting. I understand that the map adjustment process is they've approved it.
>> But I think I if I'm not I don't know everything in the world. All I know is that at one point in Philipsburg, it was all approved and it was going to go through all that kind of stuff. And I actually sat in a meeting and the folks up there, they were not nice like you. They were mean. And they said, "I don't
know why you're all here because it's already been decided." >> And I was like, "Wow." And left. And then guess what? It got overruled. And it it was okay. So I'm just saying maybe if we go to Highlands or something. >> Well, I I I had suggested that whether
whether it's a county freeholder or the Highlands, that's why they have public hearings and public meetings. I I don't know how effective it'll be. I can't promise you that. But and as I said, I think as the mayor said repeatedly to this evening as well, >> it's nothing is ever over till it's
over. I mean, I remember 18 months ago, White Township was over and Jandle was happening and all of a sudden somehow all of a sudden it was bought again. whether something can that can happen here. Um that's where you guys as the public really have more influence by
Rais McCain, frankly, than than we do as a mayor in council. You know, they're used to seeing us and they just say, "Yeah, whatever." But if 500 people show up at a public meeting at at the count at the county level or at Highlands, then sometimes things happen. So, I
we're not certainly opposed to you doing that. You guys exercise your rights in that regard and see what happens. >> Any other public comment? >> Well, good question. >> The egress for the other portion of the
warehouses. How's that going to run? >> Egress for which portion, sir? >> The the proposed portion that we're trying to stop at this point in time. I I again that's not directly in our control room. I I believe there's going to be some type of cross easement
agreements. the owner of the uh the former Philipsburg Mall property is not the same. that that's an entity called the cubes that's owned that for some time and and I believe that they're going to have to work out some type of
cross access easement with the cubes and I I'm assuming that they had to show that to the Highlands council but again we really haven't taken an active role but I'm sure Highlands Council asked that same question but I I believe at some point there was a cross access agreement between the Paccom piece and
the lack piece of the mall property Doesn't those condos use the ring road as well? >> Years ago, years ago, we we permitted them to do a cross easement for the uh existing residential piece that's right on 22. Yes. And there'll be something
similar to that. >> There won't be any new There's not going to be, if you're asking me there's going to be any new access of 22. Absolutely not. They're all going to have to come in and out. >> Come out again. Oh, >> what's that? >> They'll still come out. >> They're still going to come out that
same light. What? whatever comes out trying to get a new, you know, NJ dot access road is impossible. >> Oh, I don't care if they go through the main >> the main light at the >> Yeah, that's what they're going to do. >> They're all Oh, that's great. Instead of
coming out along Coles over there, but if you look up the hill, you're in Cole's parking lot. So our concern is having all the tractor trailers driving along the Kohl's access road out rather than going to the light.
>> Well, it I mean that part of that side from Kohl's is actually in Pakcon Township, >> right? >> Um and and so if they were proposing any type of access over there, they would have to come to our land use board. So we would have a say there. Now, I haven't heard anything about that, but
if that's the case, we that will then come back to our jurisdiction and that will obviously be looked at quite closely. >> Wayne, will you find out >> like when they do come up with some kind of site plan over in Lope? >> If anything's ever presented to us, I mean I mean it's a it's within 200 feet of our property. So, if they submit a
site plan application, >> we'll get notified. we can go look at the records and see what's done and then you know if it's we can either choose to submit our own comments to them as to how it would affect us or if something they're doing is in the township or something we have control over we can
notify them that they need to get our approval >> I would like to see any of that traffic not in the Koh's end of that mall you know that they need to use in between Kohl's and uh the current warehouse that's going to be there to go in and out
>> it's going to be I know what she's saying that access road is right up against Parkside all the way around. >> I mean that access road to some extent is going to get utilized by the malls warehouse. So you may have a hard time distinguishing what traffic's which. I mean they can create traffic patterns
that they want to follow and they're going to have to get a DOT modification of their permit board no matter what they do. >> But I mean I would think it would have to go to a signal light. >> It's going to have to go to the DOT who's going to control how the access is done because they're adding traffic to the highway. We don't want to have all that truck traffic coming out and exit
with no signal. >> I mean, again, I would think the DOT is going to be the one to control that. They're going to dictate what's a safe and effective thing. They may say, "You need a new light. You need to rettime the light. You need to add lanes." >> Well, make sure we're involved in that process when it gets down to that or at least
>> we're notified that something's available for for review. Um but if they're pro if they if they propose any physical improvements they would have to come to us for sight >> unless it's in the right of way of the state.
>> I'm saying if they're coming out of that rear property and they're going to improve that block 78 lot one way they're going to need site that would be a site plan approval on our >> stay fully in Leakon and it's just a track. >> Well that's what the mayor's saying. If they want to go they want to come that way then we don't have jurisdiction. But
to your point, sir, if they want to come our way, that's our lot block there. And anytime you you add any type of infrastructure, they they would need some type of site plan. >> Yeah. And I mean, similar to what >> and as we point out, if they were going to try to make any type of access onto
the state highway, that's going to be DOT. And they're they're pretty tough. >> I would say it's probably all going to end up coming out to that intersection. As Wayne said, more more than likely the existing >> east and west is going to have to go to that existing light. >> Yeah.
>> All right. Any other public comment? Seeing none, we have a executive session we need to call. Do we want to stay here? >> Can I say something? >> Absolutely. Sure. I think I think the point is not getting across starting with the pro just to try to help out uh is that they
the the highlands act is kind of like built like with loopholes. It kind of allows the effect of the act was to conserve on land and control so that people wouldn't have to continually show up and say stop developing our background and this and
that. Um and there was amendments put in 2019 and originally the act was just yeah to conserve the wershed and farmland and then they put it so that we could have adjacent properties to brown fields and per and permeous
surfaces like paved lots like the Philsburg mall and then the 70% clause is added in there. So your meeting minutes, you already approved that the Felsburg model was going to be developed and that's fine. But now it's recounted for a different property in Mopaccom and
so the people are asking for a favor that you would just say our property can't be included into Milaccom's application with the highlights. >> That happened already, but we already we already agreed to that and we weren't part of the application. That's what I'm saying. What he's trying to say is the
Philipsburg mall property has nothing to do with it. That doesn't have anything to do with this. >> Nothing to do with this at all. >> That's what the application says is that the calculation of sep unless the developer struck some kind of deal with the cubes. This is news to us. That Philipsburg Mall property is a separate
block and lot separate site plan. There's there's there's rules that allow you to look at the impervious surface in a certain area that you designate and and based on calculations that you provide based upon you know areas that are over a certain percentage of impervious that you can then develop
other adjacent property. I think that's probably what you're talking about. But that's a this all remains a rule of the >> high nothing to do asking for a favor because like you said it's none of it's really on your property and >> right but they never that's a decision made and we made it for the reasons that
have been stated already. So it's it's not going to change. >> We we didn't from our perspective it's not changing. The way it's written, it says that low package is the applicant, but then somehow your property in POAC is included for this calculation like you said to and that's what I'm talking about this,
>> but but that's a calculation they provide with their application. It it doesn't need a town permission for them to draw those boundaries. I've done the same application for clients before. I don't need the town's permission to create my 70% boundary. I can put that boundary wherever I want. It's not a
township jurisdiction. That's how they come up with their what is a developed area to utilize that permit mechanism which is a highland mechanism. >> But but even I just want to be clear though again because you know this council's we you know we we always
operate to the best we can by with full disclosure and so on so forth and people come and say they haven't heard stuff and so on. I appreciate that. We're all busy and you can miss things. But again, at some point, as we've said repeatedly, um we made a a what we felt was a
compromised decision after the this process went through the Highlands Council when the Highlands Council was constituted differently and was rejected. Now, the the mall property itself had already been approved as a has a a Highland Center designation. So, the mall property itself isn't directly
involved to my knowledge, but at some point, as I said, and as Councilman Solo said tonight, some point when it resurfaced, uh, when a second bite of the apple, if you will, was was pursued, they we agreed to go back on as a
co-licant only if our piece was preserved. Now, what the impact of us being a co-licant to the extent our preserved land if impacts their lot coverage things and all the things you've said tonight, I don't really know what the Highlands Council ultimately did with that.
>> But I I but our concern it was preserving our 24 acres, which we viewed as critical. And to be honest with you, I I'm frankly a bit surprised that that the Highlands Council approved it. >> As I as I as I said, % of what? Well,
we're saying no, no, no, no. >> Well, it's it's not that. It's that they they have only made a few map adjustments in the Ohio Highlands area throughout the the state. Maybe I can they're less than, you know, I can count them on one hand. Maybe a couple things. 16 other cases similar to this because
they had a lawyer >> who's representing the council and she said >> they've been doing this 16 times because there's confusion about what's termed in the law as a site and what's >> I it's been it's not been many and 16 would surprise me and most of the ones
that I'm aware of have to do with some type of exception for like a 100% affordable housing project or something like that usually not a commercial context but again I don't know why they made the decision or what they did But um that application went in a long time
ago. You know when I say a long time ago, several months ago and to the extent you're asking us to to withdraw at this point, I think that the train left the station on that and that it is what it is. >> So the last council meeting they had the meeting minutes and they voted like I
said they al it was like what was 80% of the council said yes. They've also approved uh appointed new council members which should allow for >> there was six vac there were six vacancies right >> so that could change everything >> that could change the vote very quickly yes I look online there was six
vacancies and that's that's the problem now >> I'd be more concerned I have no idea who appoints them but yeah there was >> I'd be more concerned who made those appointments that's who you need to >> there and that it's like a lawyer >> yeah I have no idea I guess that's the
So, cuz it was no and then two months, a month ago, two months ago again, it was a yes. And but when I looked online cuz it got shot down the first time, it was uh there was vacancies and then they said there was six vacancies in there. So, I have no idea how that went. >> And then they also paid lip service to the calls too. They're like, "Yeah, we
understand like a lot of the New Jersey highlands is getting developed anyway, and we're losing that since the act's been implemented, we've been losing more and more and more and more land, you know, and I understand there's conservation zones, and then there's development zones, but these people are
concerned with just like the lights and the the the humanitarian concerns for their they're, you know, they have lights coming in the windows and noise and standing in the garden. We just kind of want a little bit of green space for >> and that's what we're hoping. That's why
that's why we're having those 24 for that green space because again say we do pull out and all of a sudden it delays it 6 months and all of a sudden they go back and do the warehouse anyway. It's a little smaller but then now they come back and develop those 24 acres. >> Now we have park site here. We understand like you're put you're
actually done them a favor already, you know, cuz you're trying to you're trying to >> and so we don't want to have them come back, you know, 10 years from now saying, "Why is there an over 55 development right next to me? Why is there now another little warehouse next to me? We're trying so hard to keep PO hat and Lat again, they're their own
entity and we're just trying. Listen, we wish they would, you know, what would not happen, but unfortunately >> Well, that's the point is what they're saying is like yeah, like that's their own home. their this their own sovereignity to decide what they do with their land. But we're they're arguing that they're including your piece of the
property from the mall property into the calculation for this crazy act with the amendments. >> It may have it may have a it may have had a I think any impact was probably relatively modest to be honest with you, but I'm not going to say there wasn't one. But all I I'm saying is, you know,
our compromised decision when we made it was made, God, God, it's got to be a year or two now, I think, at least. >> And the process has been amazingly protracted. But I I don't You're asking if there's any ability for us to send a letter now to withdraw. I I don't think there is because that application's
already been fully processed. I think your best >> fact that the Highlands council's approved it already. It just minutes have not been approved on it and >> well the vote was taken. It's simply I mean I think the vote was taken so maybe it has to be memorialized still but
>> um >> that happens very >> they're going to approve that vote >> right they here at this meeting you're meeting ask if you something you could do >> yeah I don't I don't see that at this
point really the ability to >> after they heard the applica they've already heard the application so >> okay >> and The pro is they might take this to court. >> No, they could. I mean they you know the islands council is a administrative agency like anybody else. They're their
their decision can be challenge it and govern can veto it. >> It's not the first time. >> Yeah. And they ask the governor too for the veto but then they're saying oh there might be this connection. Yeah. >> So, it's just like a lot of >> I I don't know if the governor has I don't think the governor has veto power
over council decisions to my knowledge, but there is obviously a due process appeal like any other agency whether it's D or DOT, you know, they they grant an approval and PRO or Musk on River says I mean there's a variety of
advocacy groups out there that that do bring litigation. That's certainly possible. And again, maybe maybe that will bring a property owner to the table if things get further moved down the line because time is money. So, you never know. As I said, I I'm not
discouraging advocacy. You guys >> I mean, there's a lot of that in the state of New Jersey and sometimes it works. >> Yeah. >> And I I don't know. I can't promise it'll work here, but maybe it will. >> Stop the sewer line and chant the reoing of the world.
Thank you. Thank you very much. >> All right. Okay. >> All right. There's no more public comments. Uh we're going to take a an executive session action. >> We're not going to take action. So, we can adjourn the public meeting and stay right here if you guys want to.
>> Suits me. >> We're at executive for to for a contract matter, but we're not going to be taking action. So, uh thanks for coming. >> Thank you. >> Thank you all for coming out tonight. I appreciate it. Usually we don't have anybody here.