your meeting of the of adment we get a reading of the so forward The Ting I thinke C thank you um I'll just go through that with our our power cons of pages so know the first sheet the same photographs location pictures building current zoning table from the some of the culinary Delights then here is the site um 38 of an inch um have the survey updated um the survey shows the property Allin four corners of the property building Improvement the four corners of property we made some revisions to the interior architectural you can see here the bar is done we have the area made a little biger and that's basically what I'd like to do is first start with Mr Havey the arital changes fortim just briefly your name relation the can you um I have your A1 so this area here theine previously REM number exter walk eneter be and S this Closet in here this was one large closet and now we Tak part of it venting for the hood below is going to go here and up onto the roof and it'll be located on the roof there were questions that Mr Sab raised about the exterior of the building the rear of the bu so what are we going to have re elev AG last time put a tin on them requ concern CH and the siding will be Bri I think but it has change substantially from the PRI yes from the original one that had been submitted this window layout is different from that there was a discrepancy on the floor plans versus the elevation previously some of the windows show but this is the correct version no I guess I'm more concerned with there was a prior approval for a hotel it's change do you have anything to show us what the building is going to look like it's not brick is that correct correct which is what was approved during the hotel use onal regardless what we're proposing for that back darl so you want put elev the rear elevation here're ver window a over top andal that's basically the of the building will stay the same are you Murphy attorney I just have a few questions um I know you testified before you're a licensed architect correct are you familiar with the rehabilitation sub code governing code you'd agree with me that a hotel R1 category is that correct correct you'd also agree with me that that's a a an increase in the hazard capacity from the R2 that previously was correct if I were to tell you that's an increase would you have any reason to disagree with me what you're saying I can't verify that's fine um you that the rehabilitation subcode prohibits openings ins side ele side elevations where um the hazard level increases um from the prior level question thees I don't disagree with that but in at the same at the same time this is actually a matter of public safy are you familiar with the fact that but it's true um are you familiar with the fact that the building the rehabilitation sub prohibits openings whether protected or unprotected where the uh side elevation is less than three feet from the property that's not entirely true can you explain here we in some of the openings that were there the other ones are fire rated system you are allowed to have them I have a 2hour wall if I have a 2hour wall metal piece glass piece whatever that is it's a two hour rating that meets the rehabilitation sub so you would disagree with New Jersey administrative code 5 23- 6.31 F2 which specifically states that openings are not permitted where there's a change in the hazard classification when the property is 3 feet from the property line disagree with how you represent at this question and C prior testimony I think it was in the March meeting there was testimony regarding that my recollection is correct it was based on questioning from the objector Mr Cox believe reference to the front windows the plate glass windows that were there that we had agreed that they were not going to become or overhead style I don't think we agreed that they would not and I spoke to Mr Co about that so we agreed we would abide by the building code wasn't not offering that so and if it was part of the original conditions then you're asking for it to be REM that the plan right now is to use regular windows but so certainly Mr Mr Cox is here window bu it the windows department so you not consent to a condition of approval that the the windows of restaurant we'll abide by what the board directs on there of course but we're not offering number I just wanted by power changed and the for the rooff and rear roing we have on the RO where they are so basically be minits so those will each have their own condenser up on the roofed out where the where the rooms are above them and those units are small so fo and a half by two and a half by maybe high so from the angle standing you know below it you're never be able to see any of those and then the one rooftop unit will be on the back new addition piece that will be for the first FL you Des down of buing conc that could at looking over it is set closer to the road Point Interiors which goes all the way back if you a drone shot looked at the other UNS along there you can see all the roofs everything along you living up against commercial distri not bu W standing on roof I don't see be able to see a unit but they could look down the street and see every other commercial unit there not okay than I have a couple things that I'm going to ask then first of all let's go back to the rehabilitation code and there was some interpretation that each side had I don't know that the board has that language in front of it I don't know if it matters when Ray asked the question that no matter what it's going to have to meet building code right so do that sued fact of the interpretation that of that code really because in the end it's going to have to pass there'll be no openings if the code says there can't be openings and will be openings the way they have drawn there can be that's correct I guess the only question for the board would be to weigh the testimony and the understanding of the witnesses and assessing the overall presentation uh but yes I mean compliance is going to have to be compliance and then question is are you comfortable based on the testimony that what you're looking at is what's going to be built so that's that's inter and then Ray I still don't feel like you number as truth like I don't feel you I haven't sense that you've gotten a satisfactory answer there I think and I'll just say why first and then you can add on and then they can answer is because it's a change right like I've heard you guys say many times through your testimony and different things that we already had the hotel approved and you know why is this big deal we got that but now there's a change to what was approved and it's kind of very matter of fact how we change the back that that's what our relation is I guess what I'm sensing is you want to understand the changes more you want to understand why the changes are there I think I heard you say potentially because it's more of a residential but I think that's where you're at yeah so so so certainly prior application that and cly thiss comfort and I just want to make has all information of it to rer that decision as to what was approved with the hotel application and what is proposed now the prior subm for this application the back of the building not very I think it's been upgraded it's been detailed some out would but so I would say that because the is back before the bo ability I don't I don't think it's the tode that at but I think it's to and I would let me just add to that I would agree with Ray on that and I think shows the importance of some of the questions that Ray had in his report about changes from the original approval the chairman indicated you know some of the testimony relates to what was already approved but it's important to know what the proposed changes are and the specifics of those details you might like the changes better and you might weigh that when you're weighing the criteria for the variances that they're asking for to the contrary if you don't like the changes that may come into your weighing of the evidence when you make your decision on the back so I just think it's important that it be real clear about whatever changes there were from the original approved plan to what the board is being asked to vote on I have a clear basic saying not I approve original application the main one of the main try to keep and they're Bound by the original approval to the extent they go forward with that original approval but but this is a different appliation everything's on the table your testimony can come later sure I do have one additional question for the architect if if you permit well there's been some additional talk I think you can keep it to a question of the architect it seemed like you were creeping up for some point about what we're talking about and that's not what we're not at that point that's fine and could I address of disc oh you're definitely going to address the discussion I'll let this question and then you'll know what else you might be addressing the only other question I had was related to the second floor the hotel is there a bathroom for the employees of the hotel there are not fulltime employees so there's never going to be a full-time staff oner so go ahead because the upper level was approved after number ofs this the lower level there was no on the lower level as what was going toen except it going to be out Onasis people farmer I'll use that term I think we all understand what's going on and person would be in there selling cucumbers for two weeks and next week you find perh babies or and that's way that was approved and there was very little conversation ler level and there was no proposal at that time for any typ of eating facility drinking facility or anything that so we're now here disc downstairs took us about now ler changes that ever anyone ever there and I don't think so because the building has and it hasn't beened yet or that at that point still at the back of the building right now so Mr so I think we would like to get a little more testimony unless byal that's what we' heard so far and I think you said want to address the the West hearing was not like a complete perfect total thorough exact replica of the old building that was never the intent there was changes made to the rear faad there was decking back there there were changes made to the building what the board what was in the resolution last time on Arnold elevation upper story brick work and faade will be maintained and restored with new windows check new the lower portion of the on arold will be restored keeping the existing locations the doors the lower story tile will be replaced with decorative painted trim that maintains the building more in line more in line with historic design the proposed addition of 691 ft will be in the rear of the building which is I think what we're talking about and this is different will be a small with a set of stairs and an elevator that will provide access to the second floor and basement as well as the rear entrance and for the commercial tenis the rear building will be configured to match the existing brick and create some brick details to allude back allude back to the design of the existing in the front theid of the building will remain substantially as is however the app will be taking out the oper windows on the sides and replace them with fixed fire rated class that does not open so where our proposal is now this is a this is an application we've had to come to this we had rev we made revision to the initially do a new you know one of the comments in this resolution is would be better the board finds a negative that there's no paid driveway we corrected that so we're proposing now there there are some minor differences now as it relates to those garage style windows on the front the they said there was going to be replacement of Windows on on the lower facade a lot of the restaurants downtown have Windows that open my Cent actually like to do that in the future there's no immediate uh plan for that right now but we we just aren't offering as part of the resolution that we are going to say there will never be doors I'm sorry windows that can open on the ground floor I don't think the board will think that's a good idea anyway but that's that's the board if you say you have to have fixed non operable windows on on theold Avenue side then that's what the board will say we we think that there's no reason to limit that now as far as the um that that was changed considerably and Mr mon can that he's the one that made the changes um this this rear elevation is different than the real rear elevation of the original gotle building and he has permits and what we're proposing now Mr it would to have a little artified that he thinks it has a certain aesthetic and I don't know if you think that's horrible this was never maintained in its exact historic configuration in the first place was never represented as dois here and we're saying that this is what we want to do if say it has to be Bri I guess we'll have to deal Mr mon will address why it's the was were allone first and um so so that that's where we're at I think we addressed number 11 in mr's where he said say what you're doing provide testimony on the architectural details of the building as proposed we've done that the prior approved application PL provided for fror to be replaced on all four sides correct the current shows ciding clad Edition correct that's what we're proposing the architecture and the real building has been updated up and the applicant she present testimony to the board in theity I think that's what we did I mean the board thinks that that's a Abomination to the original intent what building was supposed to look like it's now the rear elevation on um I don't know I think what the board felt there was a the last resolution and we wanted to make sure that Mr sa wanted us to understand and that's what we wanted to do so I'm hopeful that we've addressed it if there are more questions find out if theard have any more questions of the AR and Mr monel will have more comments about that too based on construction and field conditions architectural questions from board because it's a new application the side of the building still to not allow not allow to have an open inated we have a r assembly going in in a fire rated assembly which does not open miscommunication originaly think know was these basically if it a brick wall or this opening both to me build anyone else one more question I'm Bel laboring the garage style Windows um because it sounds like that's an ultimate plan um do you think that that fits with theoric nature of the building were they used back in 1800 no clearly they were not is it a out of character of the building to have something like that basically you're going to have rather than one big p you're going to have two PES of glass so no I don't think that's out of character what you would piece you can ask um just focus you could put the just curious as the level of detail that represents inms of inance I only has been shown in here in detail really layout of that was not say the variance was about okay deferring to Mr AV you'll comply with all the requirements of chapter 27 sinks etc etc sinks and so to the ref area part of chapter 27 talks about separation between the refu area and food prep area storage area and typically that would be done through enclosur so we have this enclosed area with food scraps is there um drain is there venting is there are there fil on V toas gases while Isola whether we need to put a drain wall off provide ventilation all that be code this was more a schematic to show what we're doing and it's going to be accom because one of the concerns Wass without we haven't Sol follow anyone else any questions um than question the background of your relationship to this application I'm one of the owners of the we bought it from Steve fer we were part of the original application with Steve we had lied say what the back of the building was going to look like per what it was the hotel was going to be however we were in conjunction with Steve with the architect Greg Cox given a little bit of direction but the end result was the former owner had more control over that than I did purchased the building I saw some deficiencies in the drawings of on the hotel of the second floor um I addressed certain issues that I thought were impactful for the Neighbors which was on the original design in the back there was a sitting room that all the hotel guests could go and party their ass off down and in the sitting room I thought that wasn't a good thing I said let's get rid of the sitting room keep the same envelope of the building let's get rid of the sitting room let's put the laundry room where the sitting room is out of the building and the inside of the building which was originally proposed which is still a storage area and and get rid of the sitting room that was overlooking all the neighbors to the north that's why we made some minor changes to the Aesthetics of the building on the back and of the building however still keeping with the footprint that was originally approved uh when it comes to the design I've traveled a lot with my daughter in college and and and I've seen Charleston and all these different cities that have grown and had buildings from the 1900s and 1800s and there was a style that I L was in Charleston and other major cities that was really cool Tak a little bit of a industrial look to an old building to revitalize the look of the the rear of the building so when you come into that driveway you know you're you're at a destination spot that goinging to want to come back um the front is traditional I'm not we weren't opposed we weren't changed the front of the building um the gritted glass that was above U the front of the building was compromised so we did have to take that out it wasn't original from the original design this building itself has transformed probably four times on the front facade so I keep hearing the historical about this building this building has changed probably four or five times in the front facade since when since the 1900s please explain so in the 1900s it had one entrance to the front that was it and then at some point it went through an addition which they actually took down um they made a Yankee basement in the the basement of this goly building which is probably about three4 of the of the footprint of the building they dug out all the dirt they threw that dirt to the outside of the foundation that they built they had a coal shoot in the front of the building that came into that so that was that was an addition when they did that I believe because I've I've had my hands on every part of the building that you could see by all the different transitions that that front went through and I did a little investigating myself so the front of the facade if you look at some of the older buildings it did not look anything like the faade it looks like today slide number four is that what you're talking about that was one of the changes yes so um they had no windows above so if you look at that where the where the awning was there was no windows there's a piece of Steel that's actually two I beams that hold up the entire facade above the windows want to go up there so this area here this was this one of the original drawings able to find this on here right now there's windows that go about here and they were put on I believe probably the 40s or the 50s the style of glass that was in there was not conductive to like the 1900s it was a it was a piece of glass with it wasn't behind it made like but it wasn't build a double I that goes from here to here which is actually two supports actually Four supports one two three four supports sand that all this there no like now there's a door here here's here so in the evolution of the building it has changed there's no columns here there's no windows up here so you know like listen I want to keep as much as the history of the building as well but we also want to attract people to stay here and keep the the elements of what this beautiful go building is but also add a little bit of newness to the building to attract people to come to the hotel because if you don't attract anybody to come the hotel it becomes nothing and you're not attracting the people which we originally thought to have people staying up here help into the town we get estimate almost 2,000 extra people will come in and they'll either at our restaurant restaurants down the street they'll shop in all the different shops coffee you know so that was our original intent is as many people to OCC here that actually come into town it's a boutique experience it's really about the experience it's you know you can say at any hotel it go sleep but it's about the experience and that's part of why we changed a little bit back here to make it that to be awesome really if you want to this H you're be wow wow the entrance is going to be wow a 10 wall on the right hand side you're going to look at the building wow they really spent the extra dollar to make it look great they thought about all the little detail right here on the original was window they were all looking to the neighbors that was the which right here there was a bathroom over here beIN actually the foot this footprint never changed okay there was five Windows here overlund the entrance to the hotel the STA is here you come up beautiful staircas to the mural in the wall welcome to the hotel and then greeted by digal Bo say welcome toach to what happens in the put a lot of work You' been s your own about the the we can see thech there talk about the roof what you had to do with the basement and everything what did you have to do to bring this building back to took everything down four wall standing W that everything from the first FL down we got to the basement the basement had inadequate foundation so we basically gted the entire floor of the first floor was basically we support the second floor from the basement and we ripped out the entire first floor the whole first floor is brand new construction all micr beams we had to redo certain Foundation we had to bring the engineer like five times finding uh problems finding deficiencies in the building to make it last another 100 years so we spent the time and the effort to keep this building alive for the next couple hundred years hopefully by reinforcing the foundation along this side here there's four giant pillars four wide by 3 wide by 3 deep with six number six rebars in there filled solid holding steel I beams that are holding GDs that now are holding the second floor there three major gerss going from back of back of this side of the building to the front of the building patched right this was patched so there was a compromise when I talked to you about the addition back in when they did the Yankee basement I I I have a theory that they came in through here where the where the steps are to go down the basement right here this opening I believe was an opening that they were taking the dirt out of which I believe compromised the back of this this this the here because if you would go inside the building door is the brick is about an inch and a half to two in off on this side to this side somehow the building shifted only in the rear not the right or the left East or West there we put a we put a laser on it from the front to back is maybe 3/4 an inch difference the back this whole facade in the back which we we patched all this in this used to be a bath at one point um and on top of the deck which was delapidated but this whole rear is still Myster building for 30 something years I don't understand how brick goes from here to here but the sides don't get compromised but we restored the whole back we covered all the windows and doors that were openings in the rear on the previous building I don't know if we have so let's look at what you to do now the ah there is that a good view to show you yes so what we did is we eliminated the windows the extra windows that were up here um this here is this is the elevator when you come off the elevator you have when you walk in you have light get to the elevator this is like kind of like greeing area you walk in you go straight up the stairs you take a left turn you go right up the stairs a scissor let me stop you one minute when you well all this first story wasn't there some kind of or double decker originally there was a deck from here to here there was a little makeshift stairway that went here and then over here there was a bathroom that had two openings in the back original drawing there was I think there was or 10 openings on the back over to theth all right so go back to what you want to do there with so what we did is we took took the mo a little bit of mod Industrial Age 1906 a lot of industrial things going on clapboard was kind of know a little bit of was used back then was on metal so we kind of wanted to bring that Industrial Age to the building to kind of modernize the building that was built in 1906 and kind of mar the two together so it kind of really looks Collective really starts transforming the building into something really unique in it spot so this is all Harding back clapboard this is Bo over bat which is Hardy um kind of like offsh some black again keep that industrial look of it um here you're not going to see the door because there's a fence that's going to come from here over here to the site over here's a little canopy that just gives you a little bit protection when when you have bu to the back and hopefully you know here maybe we can put something where maybe you can grow some Greenery or something on top kind of grows up the wall or something like that um but this year's powerit parit so if you're coming from you're not going to see anything I did the only area of of noit is here and the only reason is a gutter here but if that's an issue we can put a parit here we can slope the rest of the water which com to the West the west side over here which so let's talk about the change in the exterior we could we could open yeah we could open you do that y so that that addresses the exterior um why don't we talk about operations on the inside um you you have experience operating a restaurant now correct yes and you've taken the opportunity to look at a lot of the other restaurants downtown in town and how they manag the garbage correct um can you just explain to the board uh what your plan is how you intend to manage the garbage other people do it and why you think it'll work yeah so I spoke to a lot of the owners I spoke to Daniels I spoke to Daniels I spoke to coach I spoke to barbecue I spoke to others you know sh not sh cers s house they're all using cans um we you know the neighbors had concern said L we'll put them inside right here you could put approximately 12 cans if you want to Ed 12 I'm proposing about probably eight there for now in the summertime they pick up on Avenue every day so every night the St going to come be like little wheels they're going roll out straight through the dining room right to the front of our own Avenue gets picked up in the morning in the morning last some bring them back to the ref um they will be cleaned on a basis um so there's no you know obviously there's no stin we don't want that in our restaurant either but we do have room for about 12 trash cans in the back on PE Seasons they don't collect on Saturday morning or Sunday morning so that's when you're going to probably have 10 and Sunday morning you're going to have probably 10 eight to 10 garbage cans on Arnold Avenue in the morning which is not abnormal to any other restaurants that's using garbage cans for the refug okay so explain the spa uh you'll have a tenant as a spa why do you think that compliments the the restaurant I'm sorry the hotel where is it and what's your SP comes through here um the SP is basically facial spa right here and the so if you're coming camper your wife or your significant other get massage for you at 12:00 I'm to you know get a cup of coffee you go get your massage you go get your facial I think just complements what the amenities that we're going to want to you provide it's a small amenity that we're going to have here and again when we talk through the whole Grand pict want people to go out to the town and do what they want to do um you know go to the coffee shops go to other restaurants you know obviously they not you're M amenties through the the SP it says 428 square feet there um appointment only um already has an existing clientele U proposed my sister- andlaw was proposed to go here she's been bounced multiple locations after she lost her husband she went to do facials and she's been dying to have a spot where she call so this doesn't have aont presence or anything like that does it this is no it's GNA be appointment only uh she has a very highend clientele U she has an established clientele she lives here in Point Pleasant Beach with her with her son and that's what this was really designed for um is to give her a spot and I think it would compliment gu upstairs if they want to get a facial they want to get a massage that this is the area they can just go straight downstairs and get it done so the um I think we covered with Mr slack the um hours of operation etc for the restaurant but let's address the windows how how did I know that's a topic was mr's letter please address that so the regional application be better with the front elevation or there so the only the windows in question are probably these these two these two and these two this is more of a Hostess area that's going to come through I just don't want to be limited so some point 10 years from now you know everybody loves the open air dining atmosphere and nowadays you have air curtains the bugs don't come through the air curtains it is a thing it's a thing that most restaurants now want to have open air especially after the pandemic we did it at band bam we put a garage door at band bam fully approved and you know what when that door is open it's like a whole different people love that atmosphere and I think it would add to the building I don't say we're going to do it now I just don't want to be restricted to never being able to do it fact all these windows are and the whole infrastructure of this had to be replaced we have a picture of so right here these windows there's five windows up here these windows was where the grid pattern was we pulled them out because there was a lot of leaking going on there was moisture that got behind it rotted all the ples a building like this Everything You Touch just crumbled and like we had to fix it the right way that's one thing my guys and myself we don't fix things half we fix things the way it should be fixed so we said you know what let's do it let's demo the whole thing in the front because it's alled out we pulled the glass when we pull the glass to the P the fre of the P cracked oner cor you couldn't even if you tried to get a fix it just wouldn't it wouldn't so right now like these windows were replaced these windows will be replaced and it'll be be fixed glass be solid glass but kind of replicating the grid just not going to have the Grid on it just like these were replaced these were non-te glass which is very dangerous the kid ever put their bike into that it could have shattered and caused some damage so when I brought that up to Steve Steve like ASAP so we fixed all these windows now are all safety glass all tempered glass so they're all new you don't have any they're all brand new we actually had we had this piece in the corners here where the only pieces that we're able to Sal had a piece in the corners which is brass actually copper and we actually put all copper flashing all in here all this is brand new Oak in here we have new copper flashing here we got new copper flashing on top of there and obviously we're going to kind of restore this area the door is probably going to changed to kind of mimic the other do I'm think maybe solid mahogany type door C board cler which is a harder board at the uh the site plan what are we doing in the back so the site plan now is going to do all papers asther request obviously where the H is be solid conrete very similar to the original application the only really Chang was the papers um there's a slight shift in the grading based on where the addition was going to be because the handicap accessibility so we had a of the land so you'll see that some of these numers slightly Chang but when I spoke to the engineer the is going to go from here most up% of water but the gut system that's all on the roof here is going to go to Avenue there's actually dra right the sidewalk here that dischar from interi so he has 8C dra goes into go sorry just that roof notar drain at the sidewalk if if you decide that hey there might be too much for Arnold we come up with some other way of getting it either a recharge system which I'm not opposed to I've done them before we did that's the cas the level here is about so I think the recharge system is viable if we need it to but I'm not against it I spoke to the engineers they're not against either just issue we address all the signs and striping and curve stops that's all shown on the plan right it's all shown on the plan is actually go all the way to the end hotel hotel sign only um Hotel parking only ass approved I believe over here somewhere that was approved Hotel so you have how many parkes for the hotel there's 10 parkes for the hotel and the restaurant will have street parking parking lot parking only whoever goes there the first time might have to be directed by the owner umy we're in the back of hotel entrance again that's all only throughs that's how she it's almost like spot that would be in the interor hotel yes we put Hotel parking don't but I found out with our building that we have people don't like sign they don't at sign it's amazing think all the showes so all 10 all 10 are for the hotel correct let's take a look you opportunity to meet some of the neighbors and on things you do we have that on page power I don't know if you want me to read through them or it's satisfactory that it's in the power part of the record but we will build a wall that's probably the first thing that we do is build a wall um we just haven't because obious CAU up in meetings but you haven't built the wall yet um again the wall is going to be significantly beautiful to kind you when you go that entrance we want to really be a wow when you turn into that apron you look at the wall you're going to be like I and we we told the neighbors we'll help whatever they want on their side we'll kind of we'll help them out tear out their old fence anything know make it look aesthetically good on their side as well 10 wall is big wall conc nothing shall inhibit the opening you enlarge thate but but the wall was part of the hotel approval so that's that's what I just want to maintain that build wall we're building a wall regardless unless we sell the building I I think maybe that last sentence was supposed to be in your is it or got Pro 10 I I think it is 10 I think the 12 was there was pretty was discre the columns will still be at 10 but in between be SLS of two um original proposal was 12 and the board decided let's bring it down 10 I believe that STS down the six foot at the end y one of the questions in mr's was whether corners of the property for the survey that's in the record you Tak a look at the survey right boundaries survey cor and the survey has been adjusted to reflect that change what was it one qu one Dee it's minutes my question is cly building buer and there are some improvements proposed along yeah so what we had was we had po actually St um what he explained to us expain expain some went from here and then for reason there which was out of character for an engineer for surveying company or whoever did the sub to do that um so what the judge line that's what they explained to us' eliminated all these windows repl new windows when I went to building building approval for this design itself he said no you got close the windows I okay orig side was five Windows which were already purchased and already insted we actually removed them based on the that the building inspector said you have to remove we this one this and these two will separ get some this is the west side which was never in contention however we went to get the building he said listen openings and whatever open obvious they could be and elim are um so um you're very expert about building and everything and I just was curious first floor the way you know you got it and everything um was that part your plan was to remove the tin ceiling and the wood in there was that part of it so part of it was the tin ceiling so when when the initial guy who bought it was k um what he initially did is he ripped off the Asus off the roof when he did that it created a lot of rain um over months I think it was a month and a half when we got into the building and Steve uh initially bought the building there got right on the roof and we put um called ice Shield which basically you put on a flat roof and we spent a couple thousand dollar Ice shielding the roof to minimize the damage inside however when we started getting into it it was too much mold that we couldn't save the sealings so what I did was talking about the tin ceilings there was a company that I actually researched and they actually make the same tin ceilings they have the old plates and they refur you could actually get tin ceilings so when I at the time I I asked um Steve what I said these are really been compromised we try to take three of them down and they just crumbled in our in our fingers you know they just crumbled you know I tried we saved all the doors which I'm hoping to repurpose them somehow I got to be careful because paint so you got to kind of be careful with that um but there was some old pocket door assemblies that had like four straps on them that we kept we kept as much of stuff that we could in the building but once we start taking layer off the layer we started exploring we saw more and more deficiencies and people over the years put a Band-Aid on top of a bandaid on top of Bandaid so every layer I I took out we found another bandaid and we' have to like okay and we found what the root cause was the sil plates the rad brick comes down a little sill like a little 4 in ledge that comes off the the concrete there was a sill plate was about three in high all eaten Away by ter gone so imagine the floor dipping three inches and then somebody trying to pack it up to piece of plywood pack it up to plywood over the years so the downstairs is like this and once we got into it it was like there's a can of worms and then we found more and more and more and we said you know what let's take the whole thing out let's redo it and reconstruct we had a underpin there a middle foundation wall we actually had to underpin it with new footings because the wall didn't have any footings so we had to underpin five different SPS that wall was not going anywhere and then not only that we actually put a structural Beam on top of the wall to mitigate any pressure on the wall itself so the four joist was mid span right on that wall so the rest of the questions are operational okay um I think you're the guy to ask right no problem I hope the rest of the answers aren't as long as that one I'm sorry I you know I have my hands in the building so it's like um so the architect mentioned that the 77 foot entry you know the wine used to be correct is just a waiting area is that large for a waiting area you know what we say 70 seats I don't know if all 70 seats would be here um I would love to Envision like a private room so if somebody comes with a guest at 12 that you could s of segregate them into a little private room I was just at a place on Rosies they were doing restaurant tting and they put 12 of us in a room it was fantastic you know we had room so like here possibly throw over here now you have a private room would you use it for Special Events maybe maybe like you know somebody you know know something not too big but something enough where if you had a family event doing a a birthday party and you know 12 you know 12 to 14 people you kind of fit him in that room close the door kind of like B2 has you know that that little corner room there yes similar to that um and when you B2 and and entertainment things like that um I think you had mentioned something there shall be 10 groups lied to a duo will they have amps will they just be AC you know we that was part of our discussion they could have the small amps because they need the synthesizers and yes they would be so that's not going to be like a it's just there as background type of you know music of some sort kind of like it the reason why we put that like that because a lot of performers now they have the Ed uh backup the drum synthesizer and you need an amplifier in order to do that kind of performance the reeverb I'm not a musician so I don't know if those are the right words something as far as operating I know that it was something about the kitchen will close to customer service at 11: p.m your restaurant so I guess the last reservation would be what you know generally finding um and I spoke to in L with Daniels it's more less 5 to 9 when you get the stragglers at 9:00 you're not sering them sometimes they'll straggle and they'll stay there 10 o00 but I don't see anybody eating at 11 o' generally from the research that I've done most people when they're going past 10 o' they're going to a bar you know they're not going to a fine dining establishment you're done eating you're G to get out of there let's go have a night cap at the Frankie let's go toat yard let's go have a night that's what I don't see anything ours like five to n i mean my my chef can contend to that he was a chef at room 561 on you know I pick his brain a little bit too that's generally the time you try to turn the tailes at least twice but it's hard sometimes when you have a 630 renovation you can't get an 830 reservation it's kind of like something like that final question um how many I don't think we ever clarified how many employees it sounds like the Spa has just one so the spa will be goinging the day slightly only during the day and it's one one person one person yeah and she actually showed me her garbage like this did we ever by the restaurant the restaurant we're going to have four people in the back of the house so you have your Chef your sh Chef your two Su chefs somebody a dishwasher the front of house you'll have a Hostess you'll have a bus and you'll have three wait or wait and then the hotel I think were ready so the hotel is going to have it's the Cleaning Service will be out to one of our employees and basically from you know check out at 11 check in at 4 so from 11 to 4 they'll be in there cleaning getting everything ready and they'll be out of there so there'll be nobody really parking in the parking lot between 11 and 4 because they' so you know if they need to use the bathroom they're actually cleaning the hotel room so should I don't maybe more than two people only okay thank you that's all think would be good idea yeah I think I think it might Beal there's certainly not having system good ide I think I was thinking Mr said it since the roof drains to the rear now it's probably a better idea to put a small recharge system in your parking lot and then have it overflow onto River Avenue which is way run off fls now and then it assures it goes that way I think that would be the best thing but but the detail that's provided um there needed to be one change on it because it's shown to be filled with polymeric sand which just turns to concrete within the within the bricks themselves but absent that change and and a small recharge system May connect the gutter directly since it's flowing across the handicap area I I think that would be yeah yeah we almost every new house that you build now you have to put recharge system rear property anyone else on the board have any questions Mr Murphy Mr thank for your testimony just have a few questions for you um specifically regarding the hotel itself um have you ever operated a hotel before I operated hotel but I've operated U Hospitality businesses absolutely like what we had two luxury U rentals down on the island which had weekly St and turned them 16 to 24 times each week sometimes midweek they in the winter time so that was pretty much our extent we had house cleaners that came in here basically 11 to FL um we had touchless uh entry we had U we had cameras at the front door so all touch matter of fact we were doing now you'll have to forgive me I was not here during the first use variant application for the hotel uh I believe you were represented as the manager and the operator is that correct at the time I did not own the the property correct yes so you at the time you were the manager in the operator I was the operator yes um and that would be fair to say you're still going to be the oper much um how long have you been involved with the goly project 19 I believe correct somewhere um in that time have you familiarized yourself with the DCA regulations surrounding the hotel operations yeah you have to be registered as the state it's a simple application they approve three five days you made that I don't have to yet I'm not approved well approv but let me ask you this question are you familiar with the DC DCA regulations regarding Staffing I am with DCA I'm very familiar with DCA I was on the website did a lot of research I don't know anything about Staffing but it's a s room Hotel So to that point are you familiar with the amount of rooms that the DCA requires for a hotel license I don't I didn't see that on any any website or any New Jersey would it surprise you if you were required to have 10 rooms to be a hotel you call a hotel to be atique Hotel well that's actually my point is that this isn't a hotel at all is it it's Boutique Hotel what's the difference between a boutique hotel and a hotel oh you tell me you're the one testifying you're the one ask me the question that's exactly right okay so it's Cain you called it a correct uh yes now so what's the difference between a bque hotel you know I don't there is no difference okay exactly thank you so you don't have 10 rooms is that correct we have seven rooms we got to prove for seven so you're not a hotel we understood okay so that's good well let me let me ask you this are you familiar with the Point Pleasant Beach ordinances for own hotels I don't but that's why I have okay well would it surprise you Point Pleasant Beach ordinances also require 10 rooms to be Hotel I believe that's why went to okay that's fine um but again you're not going to have any staff on site 24 hours a day fine staff let me ask you a question when you're denied the DCA license that you apply for what are you going to do with these seven rooms if you're denied if you're denied what are you going to do with these seven rooms so you have space to build 10 now probably yeah so you can have 10 240 foot rooms no not 240 so it' be fair to say that even though you're going to operate a hotel you have not taken the time to familiarize yourself laws that relate to the operation of a hotel it's a question is it fair to say I'll leave that to my attor I'm ask that you direct him to answer that question I mean he doesn't have the option to to not answer this question he and you respectfully Len the to the advice of Mr Sav and your attorney they've opened the door there was some testimony about a sitting room that pre previously previously existed is that correct corre are there any amenities whatsoever for the hotel guest well you're you're you agreed with the neighbors to the rear that you're going to place no lawyering signs in the back of the hotel is that correct that was of they as well my question to you is is if there's no boering in the back of the hot in the back of the hotel building um where are the employees going to go during their break times they cleaning and leaving after they clean how about the restaurant pleases I so toing side of in my business so what do your employees do during their break times they take a break the front of the house go out so they're not all so they're allowed to leave for lunch that's the law just where are these Hotel guests going to go uh when they want to leave their rooms hopefully they go to the restaurants they go to the shops they go to anywhere any of the amenities that the township provides you provided you provided no space on the property for these people to go is that correct they have a hotel room they that's it just room yes are you require are you familiar with the fact that njac 10-11 Ires you to have 24 hour a day cleaning staff so 11 to4 is not going to be sufficient you're aware of that I went to engineering school I understand that are are you going to be able to provide 24-hour cleaning staff as required by law testimony pring be thank you I have nothing f anyone else any questions no further questions there's one downstairs it's she'll probably be here when it ends e e my now I'd love toest whole I do hi my name is John tyina I am a principal with all things planning and development in South Brunswick New Jersey I'm a liced planner in state of New Jersey and have been since I finished my studies at ref University in 1992 I've had the pleasure of keeping my license standing for the last years just um and I've had the pleasure of being here before in addition to another 157 boards around the state we accept your and I remember you being here before so please continue Mr Mr ta uh generally performed prepares a that theard your analysis and assessment of this application from the planning certainly um so uh prior Witnesses did a really nice job of laying out quot the facts um so I will not repeat them that receiving you know seeking a 70 seat restaurant a 428 spot that is being plac in of the previously approved first floor retail space 7 hotel remains as previously approved by this Bo um we still are at 641 on Avenue we still have 10 um so the relief we require uh is uh kind of I guess it's uh first is a D1 use variance uh where for a use that is not permitted in the GC District so the spa use is not permitted with the GC secondly we would require a D2 variant for an expansion of a of a previously permitted previously approved nonconforming use where we had a previously proved not conform use of a hotel and in of the previously approved retail we are changing that uh to a um to a restaurant which is a permitted use as the retail was uh in the GC uh but your your zoning official um believes that any change uh in that uh going on with the non-permitted use would require the D2 and uh what I like about Mr Sao is he is uh consistently conservative and uh and so I I think uh I think his his reading is can be and then finally uh we are uh continuing our non-conformities from prous cover inside setback and we're continuing the parking variant for 10 spaces uh in Le of um the previously uh required I guess 35 spaces new requirement would be uh 30 spaces and that may be further reduced uh with the employess uh Hotel um but the restaurant is based on seats so even in terms of intensity the restaurant use is less intensive in terms of parking um but the burrow has I guess previously and consistently determined that is more intensive than a retail use because of the things like garbage and smells and all these types of things um so I think that we talk when we start to talk about particular Cil um that will be critically important one of the ways that we're using we're going to use the spa us kind of knock down some of those some of those so in terms of our relief um we need to two things and you need to find two things first and foremost is uh that the site is particularly suited for secondly uh does the proposed use uh Advance some of the purposes of zoning uh third um why hasn't the govering body zoned it for this uh the enhanced D approve and then as always the lawyer approvals um what is how do we negative substantial public good and we don't have a substantial impairment Z tying into that the uh expansion U criteria is some a little less so we nearly need to show that we are accommodating the potential it's called Coventry uh standard if you we're accommodating the potential problems that could arise from the expansion of theuse so in this instance if we're deeming the expansion to be the restaurant um how are we accommodating those potential negative externalities so we've talked a lot about how we do with garbage how we do with li how we do with nor all those types of things and I think that um the board through its questioning and professionals through its questioning and very nicely my client for their reactions has shown um that they are we are addressing those externalities with things such as interior garbage for the um for the uh for the restaurant um having uh providing for the paid parking on the back providing for the additional drainage reducing the window exposures to the residen to the West Etc so that in each instance that we are minimizing and Ting any those potential and then finally the parking variants I submit to you this would be a C2 variant um so again we' got show the benefits of providing the parking that we are weighing detriment that it represents a better planning alternative in this instance and then all of that negative criteria we only talk about um so uh in terms of particular suitability uh the property contains a boutique hotel now uh that is approved underr fruit perent and under construction that will be very complimentary to the spa use it is not uncommon to have a spa that would be part of a hotel um typically be considered anary customary this have different operators um that so A different use uh the orientation of the property such that the re parking um and the rear yard access will provide access to the spa while the restaurant the prim sore space on or Avenue and your GC zone is very much like an Orland Avenue is treated very much like many many downtowns uh throughout the state New Jersey Main Streets through the state New Jersey and around the country really where you want the main streets to have Windows and uh and activities that are in those stores that activate the store that provide windows that are interested to look at windows that are uses that are interest to walk by um and all of that adds to the Vitality of of Main Street and on the second floor so your ordinance perits actually residential on the second floor in this instance and the benefits of that are you get two fold one is you get The Walking Wilds uh that Daryl talked about um that has great uh great benefit to downtown to have people coming into the downtown um that are not going to be locked away in the hotel rooms but they're going to be out and about um visiting the restaurants both our restaurant on site and the other restaurants and businesses in town and they're providing that level of activity the second thing they provide and this is where the residential beneficial is they're almost like extras extras on a you know in a play or in a movie you need activity bouncing up and down the street and even just the the hotel people leaving the hotel and and walking along all the Avenue going someplace El just the fact that that activity is there nobody wants to go to an empty Street you want to go you know like Yi bar say nobody goes there anymore it's too crap you know and that's what you want you want that that hustle and vle on that provides for that activity that's exactly why you typically wouldn't want a spy use that quotequote have to be private you know blind drawn that's why you wouldn't find the new GC uh because it would close off the windows on Main Street in this instance we're not putting it we're not putting it on on on the street it's going in the back it's going to be destination only it's actually as a destination appointment only use is going to bring people to the downtown as Destin so again um this location all perfectly suited to that um we also think the spa use that grade is going to serve as a little bit of a buffer uh the activities restaurant from the back it kind of keep keeps the kitchen and the restaurant activities more oriented for toward on the Avenue we have a very small space in the back where we're going to have our spa use that's going to exit out through the through the hotel and now we have our new um our new garbage use that's going to be there uh that again is is providing for benefits that are improve our residents to and then finally the site itself is on the edge of the GC district is in the middle uh and and in consideration the adjacent uses has to be taken into account in this case the residential uses behind this would support a lower intensity use in the real property like like so we think that for all these reasons uh this site is particularly suited um to the uh to the Spy use um the board in its prior approval um also found that that was particularly suited for the hotel the shape of the property um providing adequate parking for the Propst hotel and with frage on Main Street uh again provide that appropriate um and that the location the heart of the downtown district and a Synergy between the proposed Hotel use proposed Spa use proposed restaurant use all of that will will contribute to the activity in the GC downtown distri um in terms of uh the positive criteria um I would submit to you that uh there are there are two G these are the purposes of Advance G to provide for sufficient space and an appropriate location for variety of uses in open space according to their respective environmental requirements in order to meet the needs of Maury citizens and N to encourage the coordination of the procedures and activi shaping Land Development with a view of lessening the cost of such development and to the more efficient use of land the most important thing I've learned in my 32 years is when you read those you have to go slow because you don't cour rep throw and it becomes very impressive so I apologize for read but I do that uh make sure you get that um so our our proposed SP use will support the hotel um in this instance it will uh help to strengthen the resort economy uh and it will help um will help one continue as in its quest to be not just one of the preeminent uh beach front towns and and summer Resort destinations but it's I can usually speak over it but there just um but also it's question to become uh really also preeminent year round Community um so there's certainly sufficient space in this location uh the proposed use um we think that the site can accommodate and accommodate the three uses in a complimentary way um the introduction of confidential use uh is going to further the success of each of them um so you're going to have people that are coming to the hotel that will be able to use the Spy you people who come to the spa we'll see there's a restaurant there Etc and they're going to be able back up each other uh and the other uses in the downtown to the benefit Evol them and then providing for additional Spa within the mix hotel and restaurant build promotes the efficient use of land uh with the complimentary uses the final piece of of that um is actually you know I like the the first piece of them it it really we want to encourage the coordination of all the different elements um of all all the different elements of and that's a challenge that really comes into play with um with all these applications and what's important there is that each element of the land use process out function so to to quote you know quote the you know the famous football apprach Che you do your job so the job of this board is to consider the land use elements uh the job of the construction official is going to be consider those construction elements that deal with the building code it's going to be the job of the DCA to deal with how you license HS it's going to be job of the B to LIC license issue licenses whether it's health for the restaurant or health for the spa or the county for the county health spa whatever it is everybody in that in that process is going have to do their job um but uh you only have to do your job's going to look to this board to force Health regulation building regulation DCA we're going to ask you to look at what that it's part of it and that the applicant's job is the appc has to but pulling all that together is one of the purposes think that support in terms of the medich enhanced group um this is reconcile why the proposed use is not is not be provideed for the ordinance and um so actually when you look at in the case law for example the proof that the character Community has changed substantially since the adoption of the master May demonstrate that a variance for a use omitted for new is not incompatible with the intent purpose when new pass so in this instance I believe use in question Spa has evolved uh somewhat um from the thought of what a spa would be um in the beginning You' always think of a spa as a large lavis op operation that would that would tracked from theity downtown the proposed Spa is uniquely Boutique in nature only 428 feet and certainly when out have been envisioned by the planning board of the governing body tucked behind the fineing restaurant a hotel down um so I I think that we have a very unique situation here uh one that um that would not have been forced on uh by the uh by the governing body and um and that uh board in its previous approvals determined that the use can be reconciled with the Omission price precisely because it does not fall into the hotel category town or the bed and breakfast category but it kind of fits somewhere in the middle um it is it is either a very small boutique hotel or it is a overly large bed breakfast without something um can uh it can take on the element of both um and that is why you a board of adjustments um if it fit the rules we wouldn't be it um but we think that we have we can make finance that would have the ability to to advance this to advance the project um there has I'm going to I'm actually going to jump to something that was talked about at the first and um because I know Mr M's gonna ask about it so I'm gon answer the question before ask Fisher meeting or no no no no no um so um so one of the issues that that comes up is um is a case called uh s of BU and what it is is you had you had an approval for a hotel and your proposing a permitted use a restaurant and you're proposing a non-permitted use a spot and the question is is that a new variance and um I would submit to you uh that it is and it isn't it isn't because the hotel is already approved so that can continue and the restaurant is a permitted use um but the fact that we're here for a D1 Varian at all allows the board to make that consideration because you're approving a boutique put Spa with a boutique hotel and a restaurant on a site with 10 part um and that is the approval that we so in my opinion sadala really doesn't come into play because we're seeking a D1 variance and when you're seeking a D1 variance you are going to consider the particular suitability of this site and how the that on the site as what is approved for the building that exists Etc and you're going to consider that all together so accordingly the the sadala we need a new use variance really wouldn't apply here because we're seeking to be one VAR so I don't understand how you can seek to um that kind doesn't make any sense I think it makes perfect sense yes you need A1 these VAR and you need to consider how a Spa will fit with a previous approv hotel and a per restaurant and how do that all and that I believe answers sedal question um in terms of the expansion of nonconform use verbage beine Hill is the case in question uh provides the review for the review that expansion um and it's it's really more on the on the line C1 C2 Varian is do the benefits of granting the expansion out detriment and are most importantly are those detriments uh addressed so here we have a a restaurant is is what would be considered to have detriment um I think we've done a very nice job of internalizing the garbage providing fencing and screening in the back uh that is going to um limit the exposure activ to the north uh We've made site improvements that are going is going to limit the impact of the parking um that is previously proposed on the site by Paving it providing for appropriate drainage already in the approval the prior approval addressed the buffer issue with a uh with a 10 foot wall uh again somewhat of an extraordinary uh measure um to take there we've heard extensive testimony about how the views are going to be addressed um from the north making sure that we have uh we Havey parit that the HDC systems are located where they can't be seen that they're quiet they vented in the right direction Etc so all of those individual elements that could be um potentially negative aspects have been addressed um and continuing having a restaurant R aspect of and is going to continue support Avenue finally in terms of uh in terms of our parking Gran again we had a previously granted parking GRS uh 39 I guess Reed and 10 really toel um continuing providing 10 that are dedicated to the hotel and we're submitting that the ground floor uses are going to ground uses operate uh throughout throughout point and um that there's street parking municip parking is available on River and up in or that will be able to accomodate those those parking needs uh just as there in the existing restaurants throughout the town and that again is is similar similar to how the board found previously um that recognize the potential negative impact of parking lot small size recognize the benefit that lot will accomodate the appropriate number for the hotel guests that are out of town that might not be familiar with how pleasant operates compared to a restaurant user or or an important spy user who can be provided with direction for what is well known with how oper and I think that burrow are able to supply Ade part surrounding so I think there continuation of fing will be most approprate um in terms of the negative criteria first no variant should be granted present a but detri of public goods again the propos use of the is generally consistent with character of the area the hotel will be an asset to the resort Community while the spa will support the hotel it's very minimal in nature attract additional customers from downtown find that the restaurant is a permitted use it's well operated will not have substantial negative impacts through our surrounding neighbors um my client has done an outstanding job of working with neighbors behind make sure that resal neighbors are well accomodated all and I it will certainly not going have any substan the site in the downtown accommodates proposed use as well the approved rard wall will buffer our neighbors to the North and the additional uses assist ining the renovation and reconstruction of a desirable downtown uh the second PR is that we shouldn't uh have any inher the intent purpose of the Zone plan and the master plan zoning incorporates all the purposes Mr La as present crer The Proposal needs several of the ml purposes and therefore the purpos of zoning ordinance there is no stated purpose to your GC Zone it is the downtown Main Street of the town and hotels and restaurants in the spa will continue to contribute to a vibrant year round downtown Pleasant in terms of your master plan your master plan again identifi Municipal for purposes uh the planet a vision statement that s greater energy and vibrancy of local businesses that include complimentary uses and service a yearound community by providing Goods services and jobs tail to both seasonal and permanent residents adding to the viy is a design scheme which historic coal Marathon character that is found design of buildings signs and Street SC I would submit to you that that could be the uh vision statement for the restoration that's what we're doing we're providing for year round employment employment and activity uses that are going to benefit downtown the proposed project certainly helps fulfill that Vision um it uh it continues the historic evolution of a building and and this I you know I didn't this is this is one of those instances where I need to talk a little bit about a fiveyear trunk of my career that I spent uh from 98 to 2004 um well I was the planer of record National register in Ocean Grove and and I had the opportunity to actually write the zoning ordinances for both of those communities that are still in use today um so you should try be in front of those board try to get a variance for something new V interesting um my my point my views on signage have evolved tremendously but um any the key the key with historic preservation is historic preservation does not seek to lock something in a certain in a certain period of time or on a certain date nobody is looking to locken or build 19 what history did uh throughout you know all it is it continue to evolve as use evolve and as building materials evolve so those two things happen and you have tremendous Evolution as you came through particularly the 20th century on building materials and uh you see that uh that it continued to get better and better and better um and how it was used uh throughout the building so virtually none of the buildings including the buildings in Ocean Grove which are lovely Victorian buildings but uh I submit to you that the Advent of Hardy flank saved ocean gr saved Ocean Grove because it was being ripped apart by uh all the different types of vinyl siding that were just not historically appropriate and it was causing tremendous strike and all of a sudden party Point came along roughly 1999 um and the strike went away and now you can just have an investment in those historic buildings and they could continue to evolve uh in their history and serve as Daryl said your next hundred years and that's really preserving history can continue to use it for the next 100 years and I submit you that is what we're doing with the with the um finally your master PL goals you know opportunities to encourage private investment in existing uh Residential nonresidential Properties regulate the unique valuable resources in the community strengthen the burs resort resort economy Taxas and to address the continuing role of Point Pleasant as a family resort while addressing increasing attractiveness as a year round Community I think that we do with all those things um finally in terms of your smart growth objectives and your sustainability most important aspect of sustainability is using what exists and not throwing it away revitalizing this building does that and preserves a valuable piece of downt as an active productive so the proposal the SP not use we believe the patient isly to it think it's contribut to the other uses on the site um the restaurant expands the nonconform use by and advances the nation goals certainly not imp according I believe the has the ability to in zoning governing body either omits things name so then so then that happen and I think that was a big part of why I Ved for it the first time because it's a unique situation correct that's different correct but still supports down downtown all exactly that's that's exactly what a board of Justice does it's one of the challenges and I I do this three nights a week but some boards like oh it's a it's VAR it's like yes I know I need VAR that's why I'm here but that is what a of does kind of it strikes the appropriate balance in the middle sometimes and uh does that and that's why it's interesting when you read all these cases and I bring up the cases because they provide the road you know I'm getting a if I'm getting a D1 use variance the cases mvs have playing field you know from 1987 and um tells you the things you have to find and that's why I use the case but when you when you read the cases one of the things that CES that is a string or thread that winds through us all is the courts invariably find the opportunity to point out in the decision that local zon know their communi and that their judgment should be deferred to in have because you know your best and I find that and by your questions that we've heard tonight in the prior hearings you you know John always does such a nice job for his clients I mean I'd always agre like this but like John Wooden said we can disagree and not be disagreed absolutely so I appreciate you uh first and foremost can you define Boutique you keep throwing around that term right and and and you define it as a boutique spa though I think the Varian is for spa we keep calling a hotel what's the difference it's small it's Unique it's so you talked a little bit about the walkability of arold and things like that I know your office is in South Brunswick um you know when I was I got to walk to a meeting today never happen I live in like Suburbia 101 so I um one of the things you said was uh relating to arold BR TR I'll tell you story I work for works I waso college one of the things that I noticed about the town is that AR Arnold Avenue is really not empty most of the time accurate yes that's good that absolutely but how does that lend to particularity the SP it's the Street's not empty that that's where I'm trying to draw the if you everything that exists has to be Contin continually nurtured or if it's not growing it's dying take your um so at every opportunity you want to you want to take the opportunity to add and and nurture the thing that is our lab and that is by adding New Uses by enhancing existing uses and by continuing to support the uses that are there and sometimes that bying war sometimes it's by changing um and sometimes by adapting uh to what the Technologies are Etc I mean you know my prior life that I just had before this I travel and I you know I spent 150 nights a year in hotel for seven years um my wife was actually disconcertingly happy that frankly but but uh kids the kids aren't little anymore um and you know the fact that you was check will never have to see anyone ever um you never would have thought that Milli years and that is the norm and the preference of the travel so I appreciate the fact that you addressed headon sadal and I talked a little bit about that before um and you talked about how you don't really need two D1 variances which I don't know that I necessarily agree with or disagree with um but again you're the planner so I'll refer to you um one of the things that you said though was because you have a you're requesting A1 variants we're already looking at particular right and so would it be fair to say that if you weren't requesting D1 variant for the spa you would in a Vari for the hotel restaurant use I don't need to consider we don't need to talk about hypothetic I would love to debate land use add INF to be fair to be fair okay this goes specifically to the criteria that's necessary right so if you would in fact need A1 variant right you're talking about how we're addressing particular suitability anyway the fact of the matter is is that you would in fact need A1 variant if you were not already see one for this which brings to the point need to satisfy medich in relation to the hotel and restaurant usage and you haven't done that so how do you reconcile the fact that the governing body of Co Pleasant Beach amended their zoning map in 2023 uh by way of ordinance amended some of their zon ordinances new presumably new presumably new based on the ml this application had been heard that the seven room Hotel had been granted but still the governing body chose not to amend their zoning ordinances how do you reconcile that I reconcile it by the approval that was granted was for seven they have an ordinance on the book that commits six and I'm not going to surmise what the governing body think wouldn't think but if an approval is for seven and they already commit six dramtic difference between the two which ordinance permits they have a bed and breakfast that permits six roomed and breakfast G this isn't a andak is it no it's not it's a bouque no it's a hotel I get to use the words that I wish to and again but the ordin you would agree with me that the ordinance does in fact require 10 rooms for a hotel I don't specifically know what that hotel section says the the land use ordin is not provide it may be a different section of the uh F code but it's not the L so how do you reconcile the fact that even though they permitted this seven room Hotel like and now because they have B back Orin at six how do you recile that neither hotels nored and breakfasts are pered in the GC despite testimon just got again I I think that the finding the board made last time where it is a use that can advance it that can advance the purposes of the GC it maybe something that wants to be with future but in this specific instance we're talking about hotel follow with right and that's the variance that weing um so again I think that specific you know combination of Hotel Spa restaurant was not considered under pieces other pieces that's why I don't think the garden body plan board would have foresaw a hotel spa restaurant uh being on in a GC just because your normal thinking of something that would be Hotel Spa restaurant would be ific larger than that what is being accomodated in the did you give any consideration to the potential negative impacts to the neighbors yes I think I think we we've discussed the potential negative impacts to our neighbors and infinitely and I think the applicant has done a fabulous job of of addressing each and every one of those potential negative impacts in DET my clients your Cent theyve they provided for the appropriate their everything is located on our lot not on not on your Co slot uh all of our drainage is taken care of all of our fire openings are the right way all those individual elements that would address um that would potentially impact your client have been addressed yet your client's building still looks like it does and let me ask you this question with regard to the ability to improve that particular parel 639 637 how does the fact that there are openings on the Eastern side affect that zero there's no issue to space no my client to the TW building would no issue based that I just want to uh indicate this is you know dialogue between the planner there's a legal issue as well Reserve all my Cent any future application to absolutely that's not I'm not I'm notations legal agreements on of my C that are hpthe question as it I didn't ask I intend and I think we just have top of building that we don't know Happ or not you know keep it that's that's fair respectfully my client does also have certain rights when it to his property careful we that was The Limited that was the limit of that question um I think I've addressed everything that I want to address with you oh uh with regards to the employees where are they par downtown where they par for virtually everything theity ofuse is going is increased inity of use shouldn't that requ morees no specifically require fewer to employes session as to where these employees where the hotel guests where they're going to congre say for example if they go on a smoke break or something that it's a it's a legitimate concern it is it is again I think that um employers can manage employees as they wish and I think Hotel guests will oper and you know just like every other M of public and the resourcefulness of smokers the find some place to smoke is without bounds so and remembering remembering walking my 92y old grandmother outside with her oxygen tank to go have her cigarette uh in the in the assistant living facility um brings brings to to vivid memory so again resourcefulness of smokers I really I think the fact that the applicant has said we're not going to behind the building we're not congregate behind the building we understand has reasons the now we have building upstairs we don't know become departments now we have a spa downstairs that's not connected through the hotel anymore it's just a separate bus I would like to figure out what is this special why this is not being used as what it can be used for restaurant he he bece compliment hotel hotel there sister-in-law M out it the same he a private B pretty much a private you have to call for app now it's a legiate spa and you could have people coming hours night multip people multi time Mr Dixon I spoke to my Cent we would Sate and make no Hotel there's no and then guess the question the special reasons you gave for the correct so the standard is hardship that it can't be developed as a use is that it's particularly suited to the use that weos spot and one of Reas is because of what else we proposing the restaurant Hotel there so the concern is Hotel goes away' obvious addressed that one the rest of it was because back people and again it's not uncom to have uses by massage Etc that would that is that is why the special reasons go to from g g is provides sufficient space space and appropriate location for a variety of uses according to their respective environmental requirements uh in order to meet the needs of New Jersey citizens so it's right space in the right spot anyone else on board good job your presentation uh couple things this this this application I was on the board back in 2017 Mr Kar USS and ret traff around um I think the uh the hotel have a little more activity for the downtown um because the people that that come to stay they they don't they literally have to do everything else they have to eat outside so they walk around Avail themselves that be better than an apartment where you know you can live upstairs and it would generally be one person um that's living upstairs 6% hous I think trff no I think intensity in this instance is a good you want people down that are being active that are using the of downtown the shops and restaurant providing any of the externalities of intensity or you think by Paving the parking lot having the 10 wall having the right lighting Etc deal with drain all negative in the audience you didn't stand I'm not going to stand perfect so you kind ofed over Park okay so have you done a parking study no have you evaluated any of the other approv projects in the last five years which are you utilizing public parking no okay so would you agree as a plan that as development progresses orish the problems r and that can no I think parking parking Rises to its level when we run out when when you run out of parking people will drive less and are you aware of other municipalities that require parking contribution to address that situation I'm aware of no fewer than 20 different arrangements with Municipal parking fol uh to address absolutely and they have ordinances and they have formulas Etc and all that all that works so that that's one way to um look forward as municipalities grow to address this parking issue which is exacerbated in a anyone else F com no further questions I just that'll be our I just want to for resolu just add just at theend of our case I just want to no I submitted all my I submitted 015 F6 so for purposes of the record let's first Mark the res the former resolution as A6 comments on that he's to make about that before after comment uh well I mean if he wants to make a comment now we're still going to have summation at the end after public comment if that's in the record I could address it when I do mying sum I my Cent may want to testify yeah yeah we didn't get the public comment yet which would allow his testimony as well which we now at public comment so if he wants to begin minutes yeah we got another couple minute break here we watch they go and Friday Satur sat very sat ice prob car re the meeting a roll all right comments from the so I I'm just GNA ref I don't have enough time okay so we're g we're GNA wave okay thank you anyone else so um as the board knows we own the building next to form of firehouse and um one of the reasons we're all here talking about renovations to this historic buildings because it's historic it's been deemed historic by the council by the historic preservation Commission in town of which I'm member and not speaking on behalf of the commission however the discussion about the front of the building um I think the board should really seriously consider the look that the building has today with a large play glass windows is significant and to change that look in the future or what what's been presented to the board tonight the drawing show these existing large windows so if the owner was planning on changing it tomorrow five years from now it would significantly change the look of that building and I think it's consideration that should really think hard about Additionally the back of the building and I understand everybody has a different take of Aesthetics when when the building was originally last approved with use of stairs show brick and the B it was compliment again history bu made a big point about the history of the G and Aesthetics play a large role in the history so I think just from a personal perspective and from what we' testified before the last approvals I would request the board just give that some serious considerations what the the aesthetic of the building on the back as well as the front windows bring to the history of oh and I think the addition of the spot is Mr Dixon said that's a little too much in one space you know you've got a use variant for the hotel an existing I mean a proposed use downstairs you know just one extra thing kind of my perspective overloads the site that's all I have to say you can stay there just get SW in this time y I do just a couple quick comments the presentation was great just reminding Bo we're not approving Mr right so we have to look past today and say's going to be and number two we had no testimony regarding the impa of parking parking or the neighborhood that surround the district so you know the last guy in doesn't get what the firsty necessarily we talked about we haven't talked aboute storage little things that have come up in more Urban Development today anyone else looks like there's no one else so you want to give us your summary and well because chairman just because we had represented party if we're going to allow summations for both Mr Jackson have the last I'm sorry Mr chairman thank you very much M of the board I appreciate your consideration this evening um I just have a few closing remarks to property the proposing way too first and foremost just backing up a minute from procedural perspective I made this argument back inch I stand by today I don't think this was ever noticed and I think that was eved by testimony from mrch tonight as as made by professionals to the reing of fact of the matter here is that the applicant has an application for a hotel a spa and a restaurant it's simply way too much for the property itself whether or not the DCA approves Hotel my opinion it's not legally Hotel I would Hotel I ofc that's my opinion um if they get their license that's fantastic but again as this gentleman said the real question is what are what are you approving intention to to offend anyone or to rude or anything of that nature um the fact of the matter here is we had a testimony from dawn on March 6 and at that time I had specifically asked Don if there was a new survey that was prepared and while I don't have the transcript in front of me the answer to that question and again I apologize I don't recall was I don't um and it turns out that the applicant actually had a survey that was prepared four months after Don purchased the building um you know so there there are certain credibility issues that are coming into play you know Don knew Dam the operations inside and out but we got very limited testimony on the operations this Hotel restaurant you know everything is Hush Hush because the fact of the matter here is in my opinion I believe that there is knowledge that this is not going to be approved as a hotel it's simply as simple as that um it doesn't meet the ordinance requirements it doesn't meet the state requirements so the question becomes what is this going to be tonight we had Mr monel again both very nice gentlemen I'm not saying this but there was specific Flatout refusal to answer my cross examination questions these are that need to be taken into account uh you know when it comes to an application of this nature you heard from Mr Cox you know the fact of the matter is you know Mr Jackson can downplay it all he wants but the fact of the matter is that historic building that was you know we all he about is being changed even further than it more and more changes more and more Chang what's coming down the road you know there's nothing that's going to prevent them from coming back for another use for and this and that the other thing you know the fact of the matter here is this is too much three uses on one property it's too much they need a second B1 variance for the for the hotel and the restaurant it reopens you know the the1 criteria I didn't hear any justification from Mr as to why your governing body failed to address the very question that the chairman had uh why they failed to uh reone why they failed to include in zoning that update why they failed to change the ordinance over the two plus years since that initial variant was approved to permit this type of use it's not permitted in the zone it's extensive it's excessive you know and the fact of the matter here is I don't necessarily agree with Mr I think that self serving testimony and I think quite frankly this is going to impact my client these things that have to be considered the use being as intense as it is it does not belong in the building that's there plenty of other super places for type of use in town this is not one of them accordingly I'm going to ask the board deny this application but I will submit to Mr at this time ask questions weow question sure so you've alluded several times now to the impact this will have on your five corre could you please be spe I knew I was gonna do that could you please be specific about what sort of impacts the story of my life and I really wish I had water yeah I mean so so again my client is to the east um Eastern facade has three I believe three propos openings testified that that might have changed I know the Western facade Chang I'm not so sure about East the problem that we have here is that we have openings that as Mr montelo testified are designed to provide life right and that light is actually coming from my client's property under land's law the fact of the matter here is that if my client wants to build up he wants to make a twot building rather than the one story building that's currently attached again you all on on about firewall and the like that's a party wall um you know that's not permitted but what I'm concerned about here is that my client's not going to have the freedom to do as he wishes with this property because of those openings those those openings are going to to create an issue I mean one of the main purposes of zoning under njsa 44 55d D2 is to provide air light and open space and certainly it's not it's not my intent to deprive this particular applicant of air light and open space there are better alternatives to having lot line Windows to provide air light bu and space right there are better Alternatives there's skylights there's things of that nature that can be done that can alleviate the uh the need for open space right we'll call it air in this particular instance um you know that will not impact my's ability to build up because what's the argument of the app going to be I already know that they're going over Che my my app my my clients been told that period so no matter what he files they come to ob one of the main arguments is going to be they're going to deprive us of our airl open space which is going to dep deprive my client of his right to develop his propert there are better alternatives for what I don't know why they weren't explored I can't tell you that but there are better Alternatives than having a two or I was wondering if anybody thank you for your time quite a Mr loader alluded to Joe K and I first came here and his plan was to demolish the building basically build a a loik and at the last minute uh demolition was ordered Steve fiser came in as a white night and bought the property he became aligned with Mr slack and Mr monel was involved in that time and we came with an application for a hotel and for a public market um Mr Sav determined that adding a restaurant which is a as a zoning officer um determined that adding a restaurant that required trip back to the board for I submit that the restaurant as proposed it's probably less intense use than what was originally approved as a public market the board will recall and the resolution that's why I want introducing the evidence that public market had musical performances it had a stage had all different vendors in had much more intense envisionment and that didn't come to pass what my clients did they buy the building and now they want to have a restaurant a restaurant is a pered use in the downtown that is exactly what is supposed to be there we've had questions about parking uh Etc none of the restaurants were parking or very limited parking that is the nature of a downtown and it works very well I would submit that right now you go to downtown Point bu Beach the restaurant scene is horal um many of the members of the board have a longstanding uh understanding of this town I asked the board to recall back to um when I first moved to town 30 years ago downtown was kind of a mess before we had the uh the a lot of the buildings were uh vacant um it it was really listless and lacking Direction I Would submit that the thing that probably turned around when N I think it really got a lot of traction then when the espe was uh approved and all the restaurants we're lucky Point Pleasant Beach now has a very uh what I can't speak I represented him on I apologize that's we now have a thriving restaurant rout in our downtown and the buildings that aren't restaurants it's hard for retail to make it with Amazon Etc you look at the Vitamin Shop it's right across from the hardware looking atore I was looking at that this morning wonder how many people are storming the doors there to go uh uh dietary supplements but the restaurants are repeat are thriving and Frank just got a great new dangelo is now doing very well Spanos this board approved and might have been the plan Bo approved permanent outdoor expansion to Spanos this is exactly what makes Point Pleasant each grade you can walk downtown you can walk to the restaurants and then you have a lot of choices the line out the clients and and Mr Barber have taken great pains to design a restaurant that has all the activity out on the front out on the streetold it belsu that was approved last time determined that the proposed site is particularly suitable for theque hotel use because the unique shape of property allow provide the found that the proposed suited to the site because of the existing transport infrastructure serving the location as well as the proximity to the beach and local buses the finds that while are simar buildings the bque hotel use commonly associated with renovating buildings the fact that the restoration and renovation of existing historic buildings makes the site suited the site's location in the heart of the downtown district and the Synergy between the proposed Hotel use surrounding businesses as to the particular suitability site desirable visual design environment is found the proposed use can be reconciled with the Omission because the hotel category bed and breakfast category is a unique lodging thing as mred out the rep found that this hotel use is a benefit to the so now adding a permitted use on the public market concept which arguably was a lot more intense how how is that detract from the hotel how does that add to uh whatever negative impacts the hotel might have um it's a unique concept um some of the board members travel um I I think from the first hearing Mr shun just made the comment that he swipes in and he never sees any H I know his job involves a lot of traveling Mr taen said when he travels he doesn't you know necessarily want to check in it's a unique concept and it's going to work the board found that the proposed first floor use of the retail space as an open market will provide benefit not only to the applicant for the local business Community Public Market maybe that was a stretch of whether that was a permitted use it's not listed in the uh bur's ordinance as a per a restant is exactly what's pered it's what's supposed to be there so can't the board substitute that that the proposed first floor use of the retail space as a permitted restaurant will provide benefit not only to the applicant but to the local business Community isn't it better for all the purveyors and uh of of you know butcher all of our seafood distributors on on Channel Drive isn't it good to have another local restaurant that they can supply doesn't that provide um doesn't it provide when somebody goes to the to the restaurant they look across the street and they see a uh you know one of the clothing stores that we have that are doing well notand my earlier comments about retail it brings people to the downtown like our planner said it's a success story when we have a business downtown is there enough parking people come I call the Frankie parking lot the magic parking lot not the you can always find it's interesting 42 the bo found that there are potential negative impacts from the proposed use and this included the hotel the hotel use is not allowed in the Z okay the setbacks are insufficient although they were preexisting the driveway should have been paid of the negatives there that were cited and were found okay not to be substantial related to the hotel use now we have the driveway pay so that has been eliminated this is a better plan ultimately you know I put this Google these two buildings on this section of town they're right at arguably main Crossroads of the down is that what we want in Pleasant and this scot building has been stalled since Mr parante came don't you want to give a couple local entrepreneurs who have a track record in town who have a longstanding association with Point Beach who have experience in the in the hospitality not only in renting to guests not only in um providing a restaurant don't we want to give them the chance to finish this job finally and get this going we're hopeful that the board sees the merits of this application in thank you very much nebor offered in response to question by Mr Dix that were noes and there page 20 of the power point the 20 conditions listed and agreed to a condition that the plans would be revised to provide for recharge in the parking lot with run off to River Avenue and that final plan would be subject uh afcan agreed as a condition to provide a paret in the rear area with an opening for drainage in the area where currently there is no par on that rear facade condition not agreed to but is up for board consideration related to the front windows and whether they are to remain fixed as shown in the existing toity style over we have 10 B wall first uh yes and I think that was in the list of 20 yeah it's 10 but and clarify that be constructed as not going back to conditions from the March meeting that imposed and agreed upon uh the second floor plan the seven hotel rooms are exactly as had been presented and approved from the original there were no changes from the prior approval uh the kitchen would have oven venting up to the roof and that was provided in this revised plan all Mechanicals will we placed on the roof of the building and that was provided in this revised plan condition that all the doors and exits uh as presented were identical as to the doors and exits of the original approval no changes proposed and that was all I had all right get a motion to close for deliberations I'd like to first of all say that all the professionals did a very good job one of my concern a recharge the back there so that's a big I think for the Neighbors behind all that as far as go they don't really drain that's I do that late I check the ranger to see where we were I go right ahead okay POS I think it's going to help the Neighbors in a lot front windows I understand the app to keep that open so we change change to change but one of the big arguments of this whole building it's as far as the go I don't my main problem was when I first walked in here I was pretty much to be against it bece way it's be run it's almost like a traffic people coming in and out is very lied I don't want to reiterate everything all the professionals job exping a lot of things I understand the opposing attorney issues IDE not talking I do want to speak to One Thing Really concerns it goes back to philosophy anal involvement that all changed and what really became pH along the way certain things happen aren consistent and it BS me resoltion areed when it comes to the per process how or why that happens I don't really care what we were concerned about was again this philosophy preserving the historic building now I'm going to say I have 11y old house in town it has hard siding all all around it it looks absolutely beautiful and it looks historically appropriate for 15 dramtically of the building I'm going to say no it's not I would prefer it to be brick but maybe it's not a bad thing what it does bother me is that somehow these of things get done outside of what was already I'm going on along it's the appc want toate presing windows and at some point may want to put in a types orage typ windows and I know those are very popular I've seen them all a lot of his builds my first reaction was oh God no and I'm G to say now that I'm thinking about it and trying to Envision it I don't think it would be the worst thing ens we have a lot of build that myin a lot ofes bus but what mostly everybodys at is those windows on the second that Beau on the bottom a little I think you can not even look like so with all of that St I do want to hear from everybody else but I had answer ton appr I do want one last I do think G criteria for spot is I think it'si use and it's a unique that appes also toel stilles com I wish we RI the building down in I do know 22 hours of my my point being you know his preservation has a certain timel to it and a certain time this building but I it made to build and thenur are eving build windows and are that AR taking away the enting I want toan of restur remember had ad bu bu just doesn't in my opinion again we've approved the hotel motel hostile whatever you want to call it SS it is the way go it is youel years ago I was in gotl places just Qui I really appreciate all presentations it really was good your passion SC and I agree with [Laughter] Mr Mr I just I would appreciate board members would speak to the concern hypothe that's not necessary because I do have some concerns about that and I think any of us are on something well I'm just going to put it on the record to say that I don't think having the opening in the building we're talking about should have a future effect on that's has a border line like that that that would be uh that would hurt his chances because of white I would hate to see that I you know feel that that would be a disadvantage I agree but I also think this building should have its ability to have some light there right so I don't think in either case anyone should have a negative effect from it I'm sorry no I was definitely toate that and I cane this guy he was my coach in farm leue go ahead well you know been here a while and privileged to actually to know him quite well and his two sisters who wouldn't live in I think I'm concerned about is what we do here behind and that is we these things and earlier in the year we heard about building going to be oror down or whatever of may it should people it someone will to fix it up in that building in the basement many know problems running problem I don't believe of the building is going to be changed that much obviously be build we had an earlier meeting we approved upair what we felt to be at that time rooms that going to be used for our summer winterowd BR down them a nice place the proper well unfortunately Market that I considera market up here and Market was approv our little tomato entertainment come in plays guitar for May two weeks and then would take that Bo re inv don't but anyway we no longer have that situation but we do have the rooms upstairs I don't think that has changed allk no I got pages and pages I think I'm just going to try to keep this as short as possible um first of all I came out of the last Mee questions and I felt a lot better when I saw the revised plan um but still came into this meeting about 5050 um before I heard from everyone um I thought the was an issue but I see that it's a very small private business with just one proprietor um it's not high intensity use so um I'm fine with that I kind of agree with Mr Cox about the front windows um it's Breer for me but um I guess I'm oldfashioned I would prefer keeping the windows as they are rather than doing the garage Tech Windows um now as far as I looked at the master plan earlier today and aesthetically pleasing down town is one of the components yeah it sounds like you're going to accomplish that um strengthening the economy in the tax base I think you accompl that too these all my notes um and increasing the attractiv the town to year round residents I think this can accomplish that um all of the professionals were fantastic as was Mr Murphy um but I I do tend in favor of this application Mr loer thank you Mr chairman uh to address uh the objector I think our our our board were favorable on any movement at that location of that property to improve it we'd be willing to work with with Mr Doan to improve that area V to the future of the town in my time here serving on the board I've always been a proponent of working getting more people to live downtown when you walk down Arnold Avenue there's plenty of stores with one story and for a while some of us were trying to get the ordinances changed or zoning changed to allow people to put Apartments upstairs and Mr Karen came with his proposal to do that to put Apartments down there um I think the hotel bus challenging from you're competing I did a many of you know I worked in C for here for 15 months and I did a little summary today I went down Arnold Avenue krer Avenue there's seven Airbnb and BRBO houses in that neighborhood where people go and stay so the hotel business is a challenging I think will be a challenging business there um and then I talked to to the planner about intensity so I mean you put a you know Hotel seven rooms 20 people restaurant employees intensity you know that's that's a I think year round employees would be less int or year round residents living there would be less intense than having a transient population coming to restaurant me I people that Park I live in 712 Atlantic I have people that Park in my front of my house you see them carrying bottles of wine and stuff to go over and all that with that said um I appreciate the work that Mr M has done uh to to take this project on I know it's a d project I've been involved in this project multiple ways since 2017 with the Fishers and for amra Joe kante what have you so I'm I'm happy to see to to see that this is being approved the site is being approved and hopefully you know if this project receives the you know the appropriate votes and moves forward that will other owners ofer aren to fix properties up let's try to get that cleaned up as best we can thank you Mr thank you Mr Reynold said that not many people speak as Davis and I looked over he he wrote a scpt for and then you have me tring what the fre do I have on thiser so bear with me for a minute I'm all over um the first thing I'm going to address is Mr Murphy's comment that he made in two different parts of the meeting one was on his cross examination of the planner and then again in his clation where he tried to put a hole in the D and he talks a lot about why wouldn't the government body have changed their ordinances and made a difference this body came up with this seven room Hotel why wouldn't they have done that well they didn't need to do that they had a Varan that was granting it and giving it approval that didn't mean that they had a grossly overstate the zoning and start saying that we're going to have this new definition of a thing because in one particularly sued area for one building that this board felt was right where they gave to have it doesn't start creating wholesale changes to governing bodies if the council sat and started writing new ordinances every time made variances there' be a lot of weird new ordinances that would be out there so I think as trying to a hole through that standard it didn't work for me Mr Murphy sorry about that so that's the first thing I wanted uh the next certainly is the outli in this the spot is that isur which you know is approv use so the spot to me the fact that it's located in the back of the building which makes a difference not a score front spot so that makes it a different criteria than what someone thinks when they Define it out the fact that it is appointment only the fact that in that way it is meting as Davis said the right space requirements from criteria G criteria and the coordination of elements of the land use because AA that's in with a hotel use which is you know in the downtown area all seems to to fit for me um so I I don't see any negative criteria to when I think about it um and the general welfare for clientel to be able to have a use like that in the downtown uh in a unique fashion is a positive um mentioned the parking concerns and you know I think we're giving the parking spots to the hotel so the big parking need comes with the thing that's the approved use the restaurant going people going to come for that on a Time basis you so the additional parking that's needed comes with the thing that's allowed and the town is operating over at times I don't really get spill over on Curtis Avenue except V day that's my that's my parking day um but as you are closer to the downtown environment like Mr loer said I guess it does start to creep at times but with the Downtown parking with the municipal spaces you know and with it being a less of a criteria than what we had previously approved with the market you know parking will fill itself out I think is kind of how you put it how the planner put it you know it'll it'll get to it's Point um you know the vibrancy of the master plan uh that was talked about and I think where you do have this hotel environment the spa environment the restaurant on this unique property we're keeping the building so to a certain point I guess Mr Cox is satisfied with the restoration of it I know we're not going by rule for it to be exactly again with the windows I think I've kind of stated how I feel that it's a combination of modernization with the restoration right start to allow theant to do some things with the building that bring it to today's Times Mr talk about the bites and I just want to say there's little red birds all over town I understand I'll I'll that was a joke CU I have never seen anybody put a b you ever seen seagull that's again again um you know the fact I believe the fact that you know there is the one scary piece of this and I I think it's a valid that for whatever reason the DCA sticks to their 10 room thing and there's not an approval then happens Mr mon layout knows I guess we would probably see them back unless it was a definite approved use on that second for anyway so that is one question but I do think from DCA perspective from a town perspective from an ordinance it's just an admission of definition right they admitted that definition of that type of hotel or whatever we want to call it because it's so wasn't ever of by anybody so that's why it's not I Ted on points from MP I think iiia I don't negative I thinked on Mr Murphy's argument of why the governing body would you know we have an expansion of aity but I still think it FS I thoughts on the front window I not in my opinion I wouldn't restrict this is what happens we get ation alls and if I can be free to take the vote I just want to clarify based delation that proing this motion to approve all the that were listed to not include a Windows fix window all over I do want to I think openings should not be a restri to neighbor white that could be resolution they pull it up sometime in the fure whatever it is and that of yes yes motion to close your know