The following is the agenda for the special open session burough council meeting of the burrow of Thompson Lakes mayor and council and municipal corporation in the county of the state. The meeting will be begin at 5:00 p.m. on June 4th in the municipal building 25 Lennox Avenue consistent with the open
public meeting act. The meeting will be open for public comments and shall be in accordance with the terms and conditions of the burough's municipal code and bylaw. Please stand for to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it
stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Please bless this mar and council as we deliberate on best of pomp. Roll call please. I'm sorry. In conformance with the open public meeting law of all public law 1975 chapter 231
adequate notice of this meeting setting forth the time place and purpose of this regular meeting through notice posted on the bulletin board in the municipal building mailed to all have requested and paid for same and published trench. Roll call please. Mayor Sarah here. Council president here. Council here.
Councilman Hinton here. Councilwoman Ken here. Councilman Quinn here. Councilman Bennett here. With us this evening is our burden David, our administrator Michael Carelli. Our Department of Public Works superintendent Daniel and
Supervisor of maintenance repair and landscaping Michael. Okay. Can I open the meeting for public comments? Councilman Venon, Councilman Cruz. All in favor? Against. Anyone from public like to address? Please keep it five minutes. name, name, and address.
Hi, Kathy Short, Pine Street. Um, just a couple questions about the um the Oakland, you know, the shared services. I I live at the south end of we get flooding down there. I want to know, you know, it always seems like we're short-handed. As a matter of fact, I I
had called a couple weeks ago about the um Katy Quickley Cole Park because the grass was this high and they told me they were short-handed. So, I want to know how this is going to work. What if we get a flood? I mean, while while our guy or or a major snowstorm or our guards are picking up the garbage in
Oakland, who's going to who's going to plow for us? It just seems like there's a lot. And plus, having worked for the government, um if we hire these people, we're going to pay pensions, health benefits, you know, so it's a lot to consider. And I just feel like it's it's
you know Oakland is what twice as big as we are. It's just going to be a lot. So I'm just worried about that. Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. Anyone else like to address? Step up to Dorothy Mancini at the Orange Street.
Um, I just have have you guys put like some figures together to see the money that we get is worth what we're going to spend for the equipment, the people, the health benefits, and then what happens after
the end of the term, those people that we hired, what do we do with them? So, those are questions that I have. And and like that lady said about the garbage pickup. I know on our street we have the
parkway, it wasn't mowed for I think 3 weeks and I know the town workers work very hard and um I I just think you know um does it make sense to do that? will
we have the manpower, the cost factors and all those and during the holidays and the leave pickup and you know when we do once a week garbage are we going to do that for Oakland? So those are questions I would like you guys to
answer. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else from the public? How you guys going? Hi Sandra Man here doing street. You know what? I'm thinking about this garbage pickup and uh I see we're building
apartments, condos, whatever. So that means there's more work for our town people. They're going to have their handful just picking up our garbage. What we got to buy? All new trucks for for their town for Oakland. I I think you guys better look overall because I
think you guys are taking too much in the town. We want to keep this town nice. I mean, if you want to do something for Oakland, why don't you marriage with the town? Maybe that's the way to go. I I don't know. But I I think
this town has their plate overfilled with all this stuff. And as far as all these apartments, I think it's crazy because I think these apartments over here, they got 200 apartments. Figure 200 cars. They're parking underground. Well, how many space you going to have?
You got snow days. she can't park in the street. Is it is the town going to give her leeway because, you know, they pay taxes? You know, these are the things that you guys got to look at further down the street. And I think we have a nice town and I think you guys are
taking out too much for this town. Okay? We're not rich in this town. We're just, you know, living nice and all. We want to keep it that way. We want to keep a nice town. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else from the public would like to address?
Seeing none, I have a motion to close the public session. Motion. Councilman, is that Henry? Yeah. Uh, Councilman, was the second one? Uh, all in favor? Okay. So, I'm going to group a lot of us together. You're going to hear a presentation today by our administrator,
our DPW supervisor. We're bringing in new employees. We're bringing in nine new employees that Oakland will be picking up the cost of through a us putting it out and then them then paying us back. Their garbage should be done and you'll hear about this from the instant uh the people by 12:00. From
12:00 forward, they become our employees to use. So those concerns you just brought up about cutting grass and parks and all those things, we're going to have more power to do it. I'm not going to address all the trucks and everything because they're going to talk about that. But at the end of the day, there there'll be we're not paying we're
paying for it upfront and then Oakland's paying us back. And same thing with the benefits and same thing with the retirement and all those things. Uh so all that is coming out of Oakland's agreement with us. Okay. So the reason Oakland is doing this is because they have a p they had a private pick garbage
pickup. It got too expensive to do. They worked out a shared arrangement with us. Shared arrangements are very common among towns. Most towns do shared arrangements with some sort. Um, we do it with our first aid squad. We do it with our with our mechanics. We do it
with a lot of different things. So, it's not an unusual thing to have shared service. But I understand these concerns and questions about the project itself and that will be addressed later. Um, just to mention, somebody mentioned parking with the building. Most of the parking for the new buildings is all underground within their building. They
don't they don't need our parking to park their cars. So that would be fit within their their premises. Okay. Okay. So is that true? Uh shared sir. Okay. We're going to start with the discussion. Mike, I don't know how you want to start this, but I I would like
to start with there was some concerns at the last council meeting that um council president brought up that our DPW supervisor told her to pull this from the agenda and that he hadn't she he she said he hadn't seen an agreement. So,
I'm going to let Dan address that up front just to get that out of the way. Um, all right. Yeah, that was uh taken out of context and when we said agreement, I'm sorry, the packet I realized that was a shared service agreement. And when I did speaker, I said you have concerns and questions.
Meaning heard, I said if I were you and me that was her that I would table if you have questions. Not I never said that I wanted a table because if I wanted this table and I'm the one like one of the architects behind it. I would have brought that up way before that meeting cuz I would have concern that
and that wasn't me. So that was my my word they contract. So you you did not say a table this. I said if I were you and you had questions about it I would ask you table. I never said that I wanted a table. Okay. That's not what was implied and we can pull the tape if we have to look at that. All right. So we're going to move forward. Can I ask a
question about that? Sure. Did I specifically ask you if you saw what we were given and you told me no? You asked me if I saw the packet. I didn't know that the packet was a service. So when I asked you a few questions about the content of the packet, you said you could not answer them because you didn't you had not seen what we were given. Correct. Because I didn't know you were
talking about the shared service. So that was really all I alluded to in the meeting was that I had extra extra questions that you couldn't answer because you hadn't seen the content. If I if I had seen your content, if I had known you were talking about the shared service agreement, I could have told you yes, I've seen it. But the I was talking to you was after hours did not have in front of me. So I couldn't answer your
questions directly to what was in what you're reading. But you did text me that you didn't have you still said I just want to make sure that I asked you specifically if you had the info. Okay. So you did see the agreement. Yes. I had the agreement on my desk for about a month. Okay. All right. I'll give it to
you. Okay. Uh thank you mayor and council. Uh so we're here tonight for a special burrow uh open council meeting to talk about a proposed a proposed shared service agreement with the burough of Oakland for garbage recycling and vegetative waste collection
services. Um we did have a workshop uh discussion on this uh on April 23rd. Uh we're back again for a nice public presentation. And who was in attendance at that workshop? Myself. No, no, from the council was everybody. Everybody.
Yeah. Everybody was in on that meeting. Okay. No, Maria was Maria wasn't. I was here. Patrick was not a member. Patrick was not. Of course, Patrick wasn't, right? But this discussion kind of formalizes everything uh for the public. So, I think it I think the public will appreciate this. Uh it'll certainly be
posted on our website as well. Um so, again, we're here to talk about a proposed shared service agreement. Uh the agenda for tonight is to review the scope of services, to review some of the additional provisions within the proposed agreement, uh to review the financial analysis and our proposed fee
that we are charging the Burough of Oakland. Uh and then to uh solicit any questions and uh answers from the governing body. Um I do want to uh pivot to the burough attorney uh to his prior email to the governing body just so we're all on the same page with the uh
discussion. Thanks, Michael. Just just a reminder to the council members that you know questions concerning the presentation are absolutely appropriate. This is this is the forum for that. If um the presentation gives rise in your
mind to some concerns that you want to discuss alternative uh terms or what terms were considered. Um those would be close session items. Then we're then we get into the the topic of ne contract negotiations and contract negotiations
are not only permitted to be in closed session but recommended to be in closed session because as everybody knows you don't sit down in the negotiating table and think out loud. So if we're going to really talk about the agreement or have questions specific to the agreement that would be in close
session. Yeah. Okay. Everything else we can talk about in open session. Okay, Mike. Thank you. Thank you, mayor. Uh, so again, we're here to talk about a proposed shared service agreement. Uh, us, the Burrow of Pmpton Lakes being the lead agency with the agreement. The Burrow of Compton, I'm sorry, the Burrow
of Oakland being the receiving agency of the agreement. And there is a difference. When you file the agreement with the state, you need to delineate who's the uh who's the receiving agency and who is the lead agency. Uh, so that's important to note. Uh the public works committee, DPW superintendent and
I are recommending a 5-year contract uh from January 1st, 2026 to December 31st, 2030. Uh the proposed agreement covers all residential, municipal, and school facility collections for the Burrow of
Oakland. Uh just note that uh condominium and apartment complexes are not included in this agreement. Uh different from here in the Burrow of Pump Lake. So, just keep keep that uh note. The purpose of the agreement again is to provide a cost-effective uh
comprehensive sanitation services for the burrow of Oakland. uh bringing us uh bringing Oakland a uh savings compared to private collection and bringing us the Burough of Compton Lakes additional revenue, new equipment, and additional
employees to service our uh needs of Compton Lakes after servicing the Burrow of Oakland's uh garbage collection uh tasks for the day. Uh just important to note that we don't anticipate any uh loss in service for the residents of Pompton Lakes. Uh
again these these uh individuals and we'll get into this in a minute will be dedicated for Oakland Oakland will be our customer in a way uh and once our customer is uh satisfied for the day th those individuals uh and that equipment
will be ours uh and our property and can satisfy any other projects or tasks that our DPW has for that given day. the proposed scope of services within the proposed shared service agreement. So again, it includes garbage
collection for the borrow of Oakland. Uh approximately four uh 4,400 units uh for the Burrow of Oakland. Similar to Pmpton Lakes, Oakland has two collection districts, north and southside. There's dump dumpster service
at uh 15 municipal and school facilities. I just want the governing body to be aware that here in Compton Lakes, uh, we collect over 250 dumpsters. Uh, so this is not anything, uh, exorbitant for us to do. Uh, it's,
you know, we were anticipating more when we were in negotiations. Uh, so, you know, that's a that's a plus for us. Um, and another benefit for the garbage collection is that the borrow of Oakland currently has a bid contract with Data Recycling Company, uh, which
is the same disposal company that we use here in Compton Lakes. So, the benefit is that we're bringing the solid waste to the same place. If if you know Oakland was using uh Coanta, which happens to be in Newark, well, that's double the distance, and we would need
more uh reimbursement or more of a fee to cover more gas and more equipment maintenance, vehicle maintenance. So, it works out for us in that respect. Uh recycling collection for the Burrow of Oakland is on a bi-weekly curbside basis. Uh again, the same
schedule as Compin Lakes, which aligns well for us and our collection schedule. Their disposal is at Atlantic Coast Fibers, which is the same vendor that we use. Um we would be picking up their monthly white goods and metals on the
third Thursday of the month or by appointment. Uh that's, you know, something that we handle right now and we're comfortable doing moving forward. Sorry to interrupt. Michael, you said third Thursday. Is it It's a second time. the second Thursday. Sorry. Sorry. Thank you. Um please note that electronics
will be excluded from the agreement uh from the shared service green screener. And again any white goods and scrap metals uh generates additional revenue uh for the borrower as we do now. All the metals and white goods that we collect are scrap and you know we get additional revenue for that. Uh so
that's a plus. The third aspect of the agreement is vegetative waste. uh vegetative waste for the bur of Oakland is picked up from April 1st to December 15th uh weekly on a weekly basis. Uh we had discussions with Oakland. Uh Oakland
seemed to be amendable to moving their vegetative waste collection schedule to be in align with ours to satisfy, you know, making a more efficient collection across the board. So that that's on the table still. Uh but again we think we could satisfy what their current
schedule is right now. Tony just jump in when you say we this has been a discussion between you and the supervisor of the department. Correct. You know you guys worked out the the pieces of this. It wasn't just you working this out. It was his input.
Yeah. Be so between Mike and I have a conversation and we talked to I think his name was Rich is the super not the super administrator. um open and Anthony superintendent. So if we have any questions, we're kind of waiting for the board of us trying to figure stuff out.
Thank you. Um please note that the vegetative waste aspect of the shared service uh for Oakland includes grass collection. They've always had grass collection. Uh so we would them being uh our our customer, we would be picking up their grass. I did speak to council some
of the council members uh prior about you know could we do our grass collection and that's something that I think the public works committee we'll look at in the near future and maybe we could come to an agreement with that uh there's some logistical things that we have to work out but you know we we're
going to definitely look but that is a big question among residents I agree well you bring we bring our grass to local I'll raise my hand um thank you I think grass is going to be an issue If we don't if we do one, we have to do the other. So, I think we have to Yeah. And
that's something that we'll address with the DPW and we're certainly going to look at for, you know, for the new year. Um, also note that uh all vegetative waste right now right now for the Burrow of Oakland would be brought to their compost facility off of Skyline Drive
off off of West Oakland Avenue. Just note that right now we bring our vegetative waste to the burrow of Bloomingdale. uh so it's not any exorbitant distance uh to bring the vegetative waste for the day. Okay. So uh going through the agreement further again as mentioned
before uh this this proposed service agreement would bring in nine additional laborers for our staff uh for our DPW. Uh the fee that we are charging Oakland uh the shared service fee uh is an
annual fee and that that fee covers the costs of of all of those laborers salaries, health benefits, fringe benefits, payroll taxes uh in full. Uh so those those employees uh benefits will be paid for with the fee that we would be charging. So often we're paying
no piece of any of those employees. No. And just we'll go through the financial agreement, but just so everyone's aware, it's it's an escalating fee. It goes in accordance with our union agreement and with anticipated health benefit increases uh from the state of New Jersey and premium increases across the
board. So that's something that was taken into consideration when we uh came up with the fee. Uh also an important budgetary impact that all all of the contractual costs in that you see in the spreadsheet that are part of our fee that we are
charging are all outside the budget cap. Uh meaning that you know when we put together the municipal budget there's there's a 2% appropriations and tax levy cap that we have to comply with. All of these expenses for this contract are
outside of those caps. Uh so it's not uh locking us into a cap issue uh in future budgets. It actually gives us more flexibility in the future. Uh so that's an important uh thing to know. Uh part of our negotiations with
Oakland um let me back up. Uh the Burrow of Oakland uh in our negotiations are making a lot of compromises for us, right? So, normally if a collection is canceled in the burrow of Oakland, the contractor, the private contractor would
come back the next day to pick it up. Well, they're willing to compromise with us to have us come back on the next regularly scheduled election day, right? So, we wouldn't have to come back on the same day. Um, also the the Burrow of Oakland has a different holiday schedule
than ours. Considering these would be burrow employees, we would have to follow our holiday schedule. So actually the residents of Oakland will be losing service and losing more collection days per year uh to satisfy our employees. So that's another uh important
compromise. And again in in part of our negotiations, we did come to to uh to some sort of to to terms with the Burrow of Oakland that we would allow access for their residents to use our recycling center moving forward. Uh, in speaking
with our DPW superintendent, we don't foresee an exorbitant amount of residents using the center, but again, we do expect people to use it. Um, it's important to note that the Pay County as part of the P County Housing Authority
project is resurfacing the inside of the recycling center. The residents will experience a oneway in, one way out moving forward. So, it will be a more efficient center. And I think and I know Dan thinks that it can take on more residents, take on more and pave both in
and out, right? No more potholes and dust. Just ask a quick question regarding the recycling center. So I'm happy to hear they're going to be paving because obviously there's some very big holes right now as you enter. Now the flow right now as far as where things are positioned between the grass
clippings between they're not ideal. Is the goal also to reposition those items to provide a better flow? because you're going to get maybe three or four cars at a time with only one way out and one way in. Based on the new layout within the work in the county, when you get to the bottom, obviously you can't really see
too much now. There's a giant concrete pad that should be able to hold about seven containers on it right now. Um, so that grass will probably end up getting moved. Um, probably end up being a bigger dumpster. We'll put another set of aluminum stairs up there. So everything on your way out, all the dumps will be angled on the way out. So you kind of come down, have a few stuff
on your left hand side, still compact on your right. the flow of traffic will come in from Laurel um Laurel I believe and then come out over by the car wash but not in that dead corner so res will be able to come in and come out so they won't be coming down anymore and you're going to try and do four 40 point turn other cars come out uh so the flow of
traffic should be a lot easier uh I don't think based on the conversations with open they don't think the residents are actually going to get um I don't understand why not but I offered as an option just cuz if they do drop off the electronics them to pick up. We get we
make a revenue on that. Uh if they drop their tires off, we make a small revenue on that. If the cardboard and paper and cardboard um uh money changes for like one for when we raise the recycling center, if that fluctuates based on the market, we will actually make more money
if that happens change that some none. But nonetheless, um and we have no cost when we do like the grass and brush. There's no cost. We have a flat seary cost on that. So there's no cost increase on that. So we'll be adding more space also for the recycling. That's right. The
question is are we going to improve the space of the air flow? Things will be moved once it's there. We might be moving stuff around for a couple times to kind of figure out the ideal location. Um but we don't see anything bigger an issue making it more traffic. I think it'll be a lot easier to kind of come in and out even when our trucks are
there during the week. Perfect. Thank you. And you know in just uh in our negotiations with Oakland uh with with uh providing access to the recycling center opens up other relationships with Oakland, we had talked about maybe right now Oakland provides styrofoam
collection to the residents on like a quarterly basis. So we saw we thought you know maybe with access to the center we could maybe host events in the future, maybe collaborate with them on increased hazardous collections and sort of standalone collections in the future. We thought it would open up a nice
relationship with them moving forward. So, my experience with the recycling center is that the gentlemen that's working there, most all of them have all been pretty good. They really help you out. They direct you uh for bringing Oakland in. My question was to you both
this afternoon where we have two people working there now that we have twice as many people coming in. And your answer to me this afternoon was it's a wait andsee basis. Um, but we don't want to overt text or overt tax the one guy that we have there. All those guys I got to
say have been pretty if like I said this afternoon I I don't foresee it being that busy up front and obviously it's um I can't gauge that three exact numbers until Yeah. Until you see what's going on massive influx and it becomes too much. Yes, we can look into having some
like there are part time and and those are part-time employees with no benefits. Correct. So it's not a big deal to add. It won't be it won't be an incorrect cost, right? Um but it's like right now during le season most time we end up put a second person up there anyway because the amount of influx of people coming at least um helps. So like
it becomes like that we have no problem getting somebody else up there. Right. Right. Well, like I said, we just don't want to overt. And just to follow up really quick, how do you and I I don't foresee that being an issue as well, just to put that out there. How do you foresee gathering that type of data? How
do you determine who's an Oakland resident and who's a Palton Lakes resident? You know, because I can go on a Tuesday and there's 78 people in there. It's crowded on a Tuesday. Now we got warmer weather. So, is there a system that that's going to be in place to determine that number or I haven't gotten that point, but we could um off
the top of my head if we want to do separate decals just for open residents. That's probably a good idea. I'm going with that. I think and it probably brings up a good point. We should have our own uh uh decals, too. Yeah. Well, we did have anybody for We used to put them on the back of your That's not a
bad idea, Mike. I think Yeah, I think for both sides, I think that's a really good to help you at least within that first year where we can determine, well, this is going to be an issue or not. You have the numbers to back that. I can also do a case on case um how many times we're pulling containers. We can we kind of vaguely know like we run paper every
like paper gets run every two weeks, carpet gets run every two weeks, home gets run every two weeks. Now, obviously there's two dumpers. Uh we see a giant increase in that. No, that's where I think it might help. And I'm not saying it happened, but it could be happening. There's no speaking from your
head. Sorry, there's no speaker. Okay. You can't hear us. That makes my head turn this way. Microphone. Yeah, you take that microphone. Yeah, but that the microphone doesn't work here, doesn't it? It'll work. It'll go across, right, Liz? Yeah, we got it. Okay. So, I think
what I'm not going to speak louder. I think what would help too is, you know, if we identify our own residents who use it, that way no residents from other towns are using it illegally. Not saying that happens, but that would help stop that. No, fair enough. Okay. Are there costs involved in recycling and
collecting recycling as well as whatever the revenue is generated on certain items? Can before we kick into that, can we reiterate just what you took because we have audience members that didn't hear that. So just go over the truck that you say well the load you're able
to tell by how much and also that we're planning maybe still in discussion of having decals for Oakland and Compton residents. I'm sorry he's going to repeat just so you can hear better. Thank you. So to we can gauge the increase if there's a large increase for
Oakland residents coming to can't hear you. Why don't you move up to why don't you move just we won't bite you. Come on up. I invite you back. I know both of you. I know you would. Um
I can gauge the increase of residents or influx of people by the amount of container people cuz we know about what we pull now based on just pumping residents alone. So we start getting an influx of say now I'm pulling paper and cardboard every week. I'll obviously know that we're having a large influx of open residents coming through. Um same
thing with coingle, same thing with electronics, same thing with uh tires. I can pretty much I have all the stuff filed now and we know every time we do a every time we do a drop off we get a a sheet saying how much was picked up how much was brought over. Uh even when our container is only half full we still
pull them every two weeks. So like I might not you might pull in more often but it might not be a larger increase in the other drop. So that and what was the other thing Bob? I'm sorry. The other one just to let the considering decals. Yes. So we're able to tell who's coming in from Oakland and who's a pump.
Yeah. So sorry people from we can't have discussion back as yet but just yeah so the the so right currently we have decals now for pond residence we haven't really gotten anyone saying complain we don't really question people will come some people not going to give you one for each car you have so if you
have three cars in the driveway getting three decals in my opinion is not crazy some people will just ask for like to see your driver's license you know so but we going moving forward open we can get a separate decal for an open resident we can possibly have them come here register the vehicle. We give them a peak out from here. So, we're going up
there and um tying up our the tent that's there. So, this way we could also keep track of when they're coming in because we are I believe we're bringing cameras in there so I can actually see I'll be able to see the decal every time it comes in. So, I can also just do a hand count every day. I think we
have your Okay, keep going. Thank you. Just a quick question on that. What's the life expectancy of our two compactors? Uh the paper compactors, would they be able to take an increasing? I mean, how old are they? What chair? So, I got here a new one.
So, I got here eight years ago. We replaced them um 2 years after I got this. So, they're about 6 years old. Uh the ones prior that I believe were 20ome years old. They should be if if we do maintenance on them, as long it's pretty much like a car. As long as you do regular routine maintenance, your oil
changes, your belt changes, and stuff like that, stuff like that will last hundreds of thousands of miles. I'm not saying it's mile baby, right? But all they're really doing is pushing paper and cardboard which won't will push back but not as bad as um okay that and because we know if we have to close one down we're able to put both into each
other. So again it that we do that now it doesn't cause any issues with uh with the compact. So we should they should last a while. Correct. Okay. And just forformational purposes for I know there's some residents here that only come they can't this is anformational process for the council. They can ask questions anytime they want. The the
public unfortunately cannot go back and forth and ask questions. So that's why we do it that way. So if you see these guys asking questions that they're asking um and that's why they're doing it. So I had a question about the costs involved with you operating the recycling center. Uh
it would be based on tonnage. So right now we we see no cost increase for grass and grass and brush. Um we have a flat rate fee with R and Bloomingdown. Um so it doesn't matter how much material we bring there. could bring 40 dumpsters a
week and it doesn't increase or decrease our cost. Uh the slight might increase be in um paper and cardboard, but that's market based revenue. I can't tell you if we're going to be if it's going to cost us an extra $10,000 or an extra $2,000. I can't determine that cuz it's
all been market based. So the market value of the material goes up then we make we pay less money. If the market value goes down, then we're paying more money. So it's the same thing with coal. So paper cardboard coming on the all market basis and that's for everybody that's across the state. So no no one right
now 15 years ago we were making money from that. Now no one's making money from it. All right. So we're not really generating a profit on the recycling center as it stands. No. Well, we would be generating revenue on metal and any additional white goods as well. So, white goods and metal don't come in and
everyone starts bringing their cardboard and paper here and we could potentially need to hire another attendant to work there and now our costs for recycling have gone up and that's not factored into the break even point for where we're bringing in 133 in the first year.
Um, at what point do we start to erode what our net revenue is if you know we're speculating Oakland might not want to use our recycling center. Is there a benefit for Oakland to shift their recycling to here? then they don't have to spend as much on their recycling
center. Perhaps they they don't have a recycling center right now. So they don't have a recycling center at all. So why would we not think that their residents would use our recycling center if we're allowing it to them? Because they don't currently have one now. So they're not going to be like like most residents around here like almost like a routine. Like they we have the same
people come the same day almost the same time without the same material all the time. Like I can't guarantee that they're not going to come, but talking to their their super supervisor who's been in Oakland for about 20 some years and I I'll take them at their word. They
know they they should know the residents better. I think where are they taking their recycling? What's that? Where are they taking their recycling? It's curbside. It's curbside pickup. Normal pickup. If if if we didn't do curbside pickup in town, right? Or no, I'm sorry. If we didn't
have a recycling center in town, where are your recycling picked up at your curb? That's what Oakland has currently. They have all their recycling picked up at the curb. That's it. So, if they have things they need to bring to a center like we do here, they just don't do that. They don't have that option. So, we're taking on all of the additional
recycling and we haven't factored in that there could be any cost increases attached to that. No, because I can't I can't give you a gauge value because I can't tell you what the market price is going to be across. I think the real answer would if there was it would be minimal because it's a part-time position paid the
hourly. Well, that's just the position aspect of it. That's not a whole additional town's recycling being added to our current recycling, but they're still getting their stuff collected at the curb. So, it's not like they're not getting collected at the curb. They're getting collected at the curb just like the residents do here. And some people end
up say having a memorial labor day party and they have extra cold meal that couldn't get to the curb or collection stop for another 2 weeks whatever the case is they'd have the ability to bring it here instead of sitting on it for 3 4 weeks and us having to pick it up that 3 4 weeks later. Same as what current residents do now. But also
Oakland's Oakland's garbage collection and recycle collection. Their barrel size is 13 13 gallons less than ours and they're only allowed to have two g two containers out and two large items for garbage and only two containers out for recycling. And if they're being picked up with that while now asked for a
recycling center, I do not see a large influx of material for us. No. Then why does the agreement say they can have unlimited amounts of cans put out that? So that's that's I know I know it's that's in the agreement. I don't know. I
think that's maybe that recycling center. No, in part of the agreement does say unlimited cans. Um my supervisor myself before we're talking about that that has to be corrected with Oakland because that wasn't in our conversation. There's other things also on this that have to corrected that were also not in conversation. like it says
uh for white goods now that we have to give them part of the cost back and um and the times back and when we had the conversation about that I said I cannot do that I have to hold a separate dumpster for them to run that dumpster for Oakland get their tires ready to give it to them and they they were fine with that so I'm sorry you just said
there are things in here that need to be corrected because they were not part of the conversation and this was put in front of us last week to vote on as is and now we're having a discussion with things that were not incorporated in Is that am I hearing that correctly? There are things that need to be amended in this agreement because they were not
part of the original conversation. Correct. We almost voted on this last There's always things amended in the agreements. That's not unusual. No, that's not that's just to pause for one second. I I don't disagree, but this is a special meeting that was coordinated to have a final
discussion, so to speak, on this shared service agreement. Okay. to come now at 5:00 have the residents here early to have to come back another day for another that it's inexcusable that should have been discussed prior to this meeting have the the addendums done and
have a final contract with the wording and language the way it was intended to be and this is why this is not okay I'm not happy about this okay we were all taking time out of our schedule to come here for what should be a final draft
of this agreement. Now, you're going to tell me we're going to have to have another discussion cuz we're going to have another discussion to make sure the language matches what he discussed with the with Oakland and what Michael is expecting to see that the fact that we got to do this again. I'm sorry. No, I'm going to bring this
back to you on the timeline to the whole order of these trucks within a certain time frame to the opening comment that was made before this meeting started when I was called out for questioning the superintendent to ask if he had the information that was given to us and it was made to look like I was elaborating
on some falsehood here. Now, it has just been said on the record that there was not information that was presented to us properly then and still is not corrected now. So, and this was a meeting, by the way, that we had to fight for because it it was almost an issue to ask for a
special meeting. So, Michael, can we address sometimes how there's changes in in agreements as we move forward? I mean, that's not unusual. We're not voting on changes. We're voting on an agreement. Well, with this uh type of agreement, there's logistical challenges and pivots that need to happen before uh implementation of set agreements. I'm
not okay with that answer. you know, it's uh not uncommon, but in my in you know, in my uh in my terms that you know, we came here with a final draft of the agreement. Uh so that's what I brought to you, which is but now we know that that is not the case and that's
perfectly fine. But I think if we're we're talking about a substantial agreement, you know, we got to cross the tees and dot our eyes at this point. We can't have the DPW superintendent coming here and telling us which by the way, we just had a council meeting to discuss. We already had to revise the first paragraph of the resolution. You know
what? You go through the agreement again. He sees it. If he had a problem, he needed to contact Michael, get it ready for today. Now, we're on a time crunch, right? And I do, by the way, just to put this, I do support cuz I'm not here to to I do support it, but I don't support the lack of issues we've
had with the agreement. We should have did we had a we had a workshop then we should have had a draft document so we can discuss prior to last meeting available but we didn't we went in to vote then we found issues and we had questions now we have a special meeting
to discuss what I hope would be the final and now we got to go back to this again to be honest with you Bobby like I read through this twice but every time I read through something I always find like I'll find something that I didn't catch the first time and that's great that's great but this has been this has
been in the works for how many weeks? Months. Months. Months. This is inexcusable, guys. Inexcusable. I deal with contracts all the time. So, I I don't want to hear the excuses. You get it right the first time. And if you don't, that's what the draft is for.
Which, by the way, we're going to forgo all together and go right into vote. And now we're at it again a third time. Thank you. Um I believe we also cut off. Patrick, did you have another question? That was uh not Oh, uh it was had
something to do with the white the weight the white white pickup. Yeah. Uh the tonnage when you Yeah, you mentioned something about the tonnage. I apologize. I forget which. Uh um what I wanted to clarify center that tonnage or you talk about the white goods tonnage. You kind of talked about both real
quick. That's why I just want to clarify which one. Uh the the white the refrigerators and correct things like that. So the time so it's a misright because I noticed I record it just recently that it says that open would get a portion of
the or get a portion but they would get the the funds from that and we have to give them a ton and when I had to we sat down myself Michael my other supervisor and their account they're not counsel but their their administrator and their supervisors they all agreed that I
explained to them I can't break that I can't separate what you're picking up there and figure out how to put that in another container and separate that and they were fine with that. They said we can keep the cost, we can keep the tonnage and we keep the money from the profit from it. So that's something that we caught that just recently and that
has to be changed. But you you want to address any of this because they're saying that we don't have a finished product in well in my in my terms I brought to you a final draft. So that was my intent. So you know things come up in workshop and you know
as part of discussions things could change uh we could talk about that in close session but you know we brought to you a final draft that's the intent the intent was to come here and talk about it go through go through it maybe there's discussions in close session and
then schedule a another uh followup for a final final draft if there are any changes and then maybe come to a you know a position to be able to vote on it in in the future. Um, so that was the intent and you know we we did provide a final draft at least in my perspective.
The amended final draft for us to vote on in the future. We were almost pushed into voting on this at the last meeting and we did Yep. Yep. Okay. And even outside of that I I guess the the question look guys and look I I I'm going to apologize now cuz I'm a little bit aggravated with this. Okay. Because
I I thought at this point we were coming in. I know Michael you consider a final draft. So, it's either a disconnect between both of you and what your interpretation of that contract and what it includes matches and aligns with what you expect it to be. Clearly, it doesn't. And that's a problem, right?
Because we have the department head, we have mayor, we have everybody, the personnel committee, every not the person, was it the person had separate meetings, everybody involved, everybody involved. So, I I this is my only problem when I go into meetings. I want to know this one in
particular because this is a special meeting. that we're going to get this done. And I know you're on a time crunch, Mike. I know we got to get this ordered, right? But this should not have happened, guys. Plain and simple. If you had any questions or doubts on that contract, it should have been an immediate email. Hey, Michael, this
language does not align with my discussion with Mayor Oakland. This does not line. This is not aligned. I'm not sure. You should have the meeting today. We don't need to revise and discuss this. To be honest with you, Bob, I caught it this morning. So, I went through it again this morning so I can refresh my memory. I I'll take this.
I'll take owners. That's I mean we caught up this morning. I asked about this two weeks ago and and then was told at the beginning of the meeting that I was wrong. I'm sorry. This is not okay. And I have a ton of questions about things I see in the financing aspect of this that don't make sense. So, I don't know how long we're going to be here tonight. Well, I'm not going to linger on this and we're not going to be here
all night telling you right. I'm just going to let you guys discuss and revise and let's agree on a final final version of this contract that we're all comfortable with. Okay? That's what needs to happen. And I don't think that's going to happen. All right. So, let me ask you this. And I and I
hear you saying, and I kind of agree that. What happens at that point if there's another change? Do we have to have another meeting because there's another change? It's a contract, Mike. Any This is a 5-year contract. Any contract, you need to go through with a fine tooth comb, Mike. No, I understand that. You know, but it doesn't matter how many revisions. If there's a
mistake, two mistake. Two. And there was one last week on the resolution first paragraph. I'm not asking that. You got you want to change something if if I'm comfortable as long as architect or administrator their their experience their lives is what I'm going to depend
on. I'm not part of the personnel committee can't speak to that. So I got to trust these two. Right. And I got to trust that what they're relaying to us what's before me right now put together is correct. Correct. Now, he's admitted to two areas that he read this morning
that are not correct in a contract for 5 years. This is not a yearly contract. If this was a yearly contract, we could revisit this and make course corrections, but we're stuck for 5 years on this. So, my personal opinion, and it's only mine, I don't think we're going to get anything accomplished tonight cuz I can tell you right now, I
am not voting on any contract with mistakes. Well, I just I just clarify what Mike about that what Patrick asked about the can thing because I did catch that earlier, but I did I think Mike was waiting for response or we got the response. I think I follow the ordinance that they have in place in town which
says in their ordinance that is two cans uh and two bulk items. That's it. All we care about is that the language in the contract reflects for 5 years. Again, guys, if this was a year-toear, which would make sense anyway, but if it was a year-to-year contract, I have less of an
issue cuz we could revise it going into the So, I'm going to throw this out. Do you want to continue with this meeting or not? I I'm okay if not continue with this meeting, but what I would like to do if that's and and if this is okay with you guys so that we can not do this
again after the next time, I actually have specific questions for parts of this PowerPoint that we have not gotten to. I would like to just read them so that and you read yours and you read yours and you read yours so that you know what it is that we're going to ask the next time so that you can address
them before we I I I have 10 questions on the financial aspect of this that we haven't gotten why haven't you met with your administrator on asking those questions. I'm asking them here in public session after this workshop. That's what we agreed upon. I I just to say I do want Michael to complete his presentation.
Okay. He put work into this and it's it's still it's accurate in the financials. The public is here. So, at the very least, let him go through and finish up. Mayor, that's at the very least. And you can chime in obviously Dan if you have any questions or anything anything else comes up, but I
would like for Michael to actually go through it and there was an ask of us to ask questions behind the scenes in an email and I don't agree with that. I wanted to ask here at this meeting. That is what the purpose of this meeting was and I have questions about what you're putting on the screen. So, I'm not asking them separately. I'm asking them
here. Go ahead and answer something. Um, at the last meeting, Councilman Hinton said he had at least 30 questions. And I asked Councilman Hinton to please give those questions because they're important questions. And I agree with you, Randy. But I asked them to give them to the administrator and to give
them to the Senate superintendent so they had the opportunity to find the answers because I don't expect these guys to have it all in their head at every point. Um, because it's it is a big it's a big service contract. I let me speak. It's a big service contract and there's a lot of parts to this thing
that are operating and you know as we go through it and as you go through it and as I go through it as Jennifer went through it there are going to be questions. Some people are going to be a little bit you know more sophisticated in the the finance part of it. Some people are going to be more sophisticated in the recycling which I I
was more concerned with the vegetative issues such like that. So I was I asked that if you had questions, please send them to the the two people who are the architects and the the financial administrator so that they can answer
these questions and if they found there there was deficiency in the cre in their shared agreement then they could fix them or that at least they could say thank you for bringing that to my attention councilman. We have to change that. That's what I was asking. That's
that's all I was asking and I think that's a very rational and reasonable way to to handle our our our administrator and our super and I agree with you and I will tell you that Mr. Hinton did do that and he spent two hours with these two gentlemen and I give him credit for doing that to take that time to ask those questions and we
did find a lot of errors and the time for this to be in their heads has passed. It's on paper now. We were supposed to vote on this at the last meeting. It shouldn't be in anyone's head. Mike, why don't you head forward with the uh presentation and then we'll just go from there. And mayor, just so you know, I have a an appointment with another meeting with Well, there's not going to be a vote tonight anyway. So,
Okay. So, I just I just want to remind everyone there is no vote this evening. I just don't want the residents think I'm walking out cuz I'm mad. I actually have a presentation with a scholarship for school. So, go ahead. Why don't you keep uh so we left off on the vehicles and
equipment aspect of the agreement. Uh the agreement calls for the Burough Poppy Lakes to provide compliant well-maintained vehicles uh being uh Oakland being our customer. Um as part of the agreement uh built into our fee
uh would be the cost of two two new garbage trucks for our fleet. Uh that would bring our fleet up to eight garbage trucks. Right now we use about two garbage trucks. I'm sorry. Right now we use about four garbage trucks to service the residents of Pompton Lakes.
We do have two surplus garbage trucks uh right now within our fleet. Uh and we're looking to get two more uh being four for Compton weights and four for Oakland's needs. Uh and our superintendent feels that that would be sufficient uh to pick up solid waste and
recycling. Um we had talked about, you know, the tonnage that's collected and the amount of vehicles needed for each type of specific collection. We kind of anticipate three vehicles being needed for Oakland for garbage and four vehicles being needed for recycling. Uh
so this would bring us up to speed and have sufficient vehicles uh within our can I stop you and ask you a question on that part. Sure. Okay. So um I did watch I was the one that wasn't in attendance at the workshop meeting, but I did watch the video. So, I have some questions
about what took place in that workshop because you're saying we have four garbage trucks and two our surplus. Currently, we have four. We have six total. We have six total. We're buying two, right? But before you moved into workshop, you
finished off the capital wish list discussion and it was mentioned specifically that there was a request to purchase another new garbage truck for next year um because one of ours is going to need to be replaced. So that's not factored into any of this and that's in addition to the two that we're
purchasing for this shared service agreement. So are we looking to go out and purchase a third to replace one of the existing ones that's not factored into these costs? Well, we have a replacement schedule uh with our fleet with our DPW as we do with all other
other departments. Um and you know vehicles from time to time need to be replaced part of this. We could potentially be buying three trucks next year. Yep. So, so we feel that right now our fleet is sufficient. Uh, again, we'll talk at a future council meeting
about uh mechanical services contract and how that will enhance our fleet and uh provide for better maintenance and upkeep. Uh, but we feel that this is sufficient uh for this contract right now. And of course, you know, unforeseen circumstances come up with vehicles all
the time. Um, but again, everything is in working order right now. Uh so we feel that it would be sufficient for the contract for most and then it you went on someone went on to ask about storage of the vehicles and trucks and the quote was I spoke with the superintendent and
he thinks he can make it work. Again another speculation that we are taking on a large project and we don't have a definitive answer as to you know I we think we can make this work is I'm looking for a little more than that. Well I can tell you right now I I can I
can make it work. we have enough space in the back. Uh recycling center being done, I'll have more spaces because I'm moving the metal pile out of our yard. So, I will have more than enough room and I have open and if I needed to, I can store or leave one of those two trucks or if not three trucks there at
their yard. So, you understand my my concern for the lack of connectivity because now you have given me a definitive answer that you have thought this through and have a solution to the problem. When your words were used in that meeting, it was a he thinks he can make it work. So there needs to be a
final discussion here. And Michael, just so I understand that the you know the cost of our trucks that's budgeted budgeted separately. The other trucks that we have to buy to take on this that's we're not absorbing that cost, right? We're we're getting refunded or
right it's part of our fee. I just I think that that's worth a clarification. It isn't like we're going to absorb three new trucks. We're not buying their stuff. Can you just speak to the just buy them initially? Initially, but we're getting the money back. Yeah. I don't And that part cannot be excluded. Okay.
So, can you just for the public so they understand how the purchasing of this is going to work and where the dollars are going to be coming from? Thank you, Councilman. So, as I'll get into later in the presentation, there's going to be an annual fee that is going to be charged to the Burrow of Oakland, uh, paid on a quarterly basis. Built into
that fee is the capitalization of the purchase of the new trucks. Uh which comes to about $72,625 per year. Again, to capital ordinance the new trucks. Uh so that that'll fund uh that'll fund the cost of
the debt of the new trucks over the term of the contract. Um you know, and it's again it's built into the fee that we're charging. So the fee, just so everybody understands, the fee is what we're charging Oakland to pick up all the costs that we're putting out to make this project happen and they are picking
up all the costs of those fees as we move forward with this. Correct. How are we? Well, the way we word that is is so they're paying us for a service and we're paying for everything that is
required to provide that service and then after the expenses of providing that service, what is left from what they are paying us for that service is the net revenue. Right. Right. So it so we're making it sound like there's very very different compartments here. they are buying something from us and we are
bearing the cost of all of what it takes to put this package together. So, you know, it's a million, right? And then you take out everything else and at the end you're left with 133,000. Right. And that's what's broken down into the spreadsheet. Right. Right. Can
I ask a question? First, I want to thank Councilwoman Kent for bringing up my 30 questions and uh I spent two hours with the gentleman and they answered a lot of the questions and one of the questions I brought up from the two different sheets that we got, one from the last meeting and one we recently got was the vehicle
cost. You can explain that one was 175,000 each and the next one was 321,000 each. Now there's a big difference there and and also bonding cost was 3.75%. And in the second sheet bonding
costs was 4.0%. So in the two weeks a lot of things have changed. Bonding cost is off of one truck. Just quickly he has a presentation that I would like for the public to see. Can everybody hold their questions because I'm pretty sure
they're all written down so he completes the presentation because if not we're going to be here till like 9:00 tonight. And the other side of that is any agreement questions we would have to do in session. So let's get through them first. We're going to have another public session for the public there. We're not Oh, we're not okay. Then just
Well, can I just say one thing in all due respect, Councilman, we're looking at a 5-year contract, millions of dollars. M and personally if I have to stay here to midnight I don't care if you need to leave Kent needs I completely understand
that but we have to be respectful of the public we can stay here you well that's true too we have to be respectful but it's being televised but we have yes but right now they're in person we questions are going to be they're going to be answered but let's get through the
presentation at midnight okay let's do the presentation and the presentation will he'll finish any problems with or concerns or questions about the financing costs all has to be done in close session. No, not if it's specific to the presentation that's in front of us. The numbers that were being
presented. If there's discussion of the numbers though, then it would be No, I can have an explanation for the breakdown of the numbers that are sitting on the screen in public. Correct. But if someone's challenging those numbers, then we'd have to that would be that would be something. As I said, if there are
concerns that are to be discussed, then those that's a close session discussion. Okay, go ahead. Thank you. Uh so again, part of the vehicle uh part of the proposed vehicle verbiage, uh again, the trucks must be lettered. As with any
private hauler, it has the name of the contractor on the side of the truck. This would be no different. it would say Burrow Pompton Lakes. Uh so we would be looking to decal uh those trucks uh that are servicing the burrow as we have with all of our other trucks. Um another point I wanted to add
was miss collection provisions. Uh again I went over this before but in the event of increment letter uh we would be picking up on Oakland's next regularly scheduled collection day. Again right now the uh the tonnage is picked up on the next day. Uh so again that was a
compromise that we had uh with our uh discussions. Uh on the next slide is our payment terms and termination clauses. Uh again the annual fee uh the annual fee proposed to be charged to the B of Oakland is 1 million
$24,681 and that escalates up to uh up to 1 million about $300,000. And just to, you know, briefly go over the spreadsheet that was provided to the governor's body, uh, within that fee proposal, uh, to council
president's point is the cost of salaries for all of the proposing laborers. Um, you'll see an escalating increase based on our union contract. Can you put that up? I can. Yes. Yes. Sorry. Thank you.
Uh, yes. Uh so you'll see on the salary uh spreadsheet that all of the salaries are escalating uh throughout our union agreement uh forecasting. Uh the fee covers all of the health benefit costs uh pensions and fringe benefits. Again,
all of those are escalating based on prior trends from the state of New Jersey. Again, for the public, we participate in the state health benefits plan. Uh so we have we are anticipating an increase moving forward. uh you know we've seen absorbent increases from 18
to 20% from the state. Uh so that's kind of what we have forecasted uh for the future uh for that. Again part of the fee uh we have a breakdown for fuel costs and for maintenance costs. I just want to note that the fuel cost was provided to us by Oakland uh based on
their expertise with the collection routes and their private hauler. Uh so again that starts at 70,000 and escalates up to 75,000 per per year. We do have a cost for maintenance. Uh again as we discussed before we anticipate our
m maintenance cost to be much lower uh due to some changes in the future with our mechanical services. Um again the the cost of the two new garbage trucks uh when you uh uh perform a capital ordinance for those is about
72,000 per year. Uh so again the cost of those two new trucks are covered within the fee. Can you stop there and explain that though? Because you have the based on a cost per truck of how much? Right. So within your packets is a quote
uh from Hoover uh on the source well contract for two new garbage trucks. Uh that's a combined pricing of 321,000 per truck. So it's about 650,000. Um when you do a bond when you do a bond ordinance for this type of
thing, uh the municipality has up to 10 years to pay back the money. So we're looking to capitalize the cost of the trucks over the term of the agreement. Uh, so that comes to about 72,000 per year to pay off the debt from that bond
or but that unless I'm reading this wrong at at your rate that debt service is based off the cost of one truck, right? We're th this when when you extrapolate out over a 10-year period. You you have 10 years to pay back the
full money and the capital ordinance is spread over 10 years. So that's what it is per year for 10 years. And that's just the way that capital ordinances work and the funding mechanisms work. Otherwise, we'd have to pay, you know, upfront to just purchase the vehicles
outright. But that just inflates the financial implications. So, are you just not showing the final 5 years of an additional 72 per year because it's what you have in here in total, right, over 5 years covers the debt service on only one truck. So, does is this supposed to
go out an additional five years? It is. Yes. And that that's how that's how the budgeting for for bond ordinance works. It is spread over a 10-year period. So the total debt service on this is almost 700,000 then and that's what the quote is for. Yes,
the approximate life of a truck. What's the approximate life of a truck? Truck about 15 years. Okay. I mean cost. I'm sorry. What were you saying? Should we keep these trucks? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they would be
regardless end up being the bur and Oakland is picking up the debt cost. That's why we figured it out over that cost. Is that correct? They're not picking it up. It's part of it's part of the pay. Yes. For stop separating and saying they're picking when when I hear you say to me they're picking up the
cost. That makes it sound to me like that's something that's being held separate. No. When I say that, I I'll say what I'm saying. They're paying making the payment. So, they are picking up the cost. Well, they're they're paying us a lump sum which includes that payment.
Okay, that's it's I think we're we're recouping our cost, right? We're getting our money back. Correct. Exactly. Um thank you. Uh so moving forward uh that brings a subtotal for 2026 uh to about
891,000. That's to implement the program for Oakland. uh you'll see in any other shared service agreement that the standard admin fee for this type of arrangement or any other type of arrangement is about 10 to 15% of the cost to implement
it. Um so that comes to about 133,000 that is extra revenue for the burrow. Uh that will directly be used to offset taxes when we uh perform our tax levy increases as part of the budget process. Uh so again that brings a grand total of
1,ion24,000. Um again generating a net revenue to the borrow of 133,000 up to 177,000. Uh all in all about 780,000 uh revenue over 5 years for the burrow. And there were talks in the workshop
about using that money. It's like I I heard it mentioned I don't know in two or three different places. one to offset taxes, two to purchase a new DPW facility, three to buy the other truck that we need. It's $133,000 a year. It goes it steps up
over the 5 years. But how far do you think you're going to spread that money? Well, it's used as anticipated revenue in the budget. So really, it's not dedicated for a specific purpose. It's just anticipated extra revenue. And then as part of the budget process, this
governing body decides how to use that uh additional revenue quite frankly and and or just you know it could be used to lower the tax rate for that given year. All right. So I'm going to ask this question and and you can stop me if it's wrong, but I am going to quote something that was specifically stated in public
in the workshop. You summarized your workshop and specifically stated that in year one, Oakland is realizing a savings of approximately $800,000. We're netting $133,000. Um, there aren't any other options. So,
if I wanted to ask if we could revisit that because I feel like there's some negotiating opportunity there, we can have a close session for that. That that would be a close session. Uh, I I'll I'll try to be clear on this because it is it is kind of a a misty line. If if you have questions about how a number is
calculated and how we derive a certain number, um, that's an open session. That's fair game here. If you have concerns about that number that you want to discuss, that's a close session item. So, how did we derive a number that is a savings versus a net revenue on one side
that has such a big difference in it? How did we negotiate that? Well, we feel that we're getting all this extra equipment and manpower that it kind of equalized out. Uh, and that's what that's what was negotiated. I can get into a little more
in close session. I would like to have a close session for that then. I would like to have that discuss. Not obviously at this meeting. No, of course. Of course. Absolutely. Yeah. This this meeting is the presentation, right? Thank you. And then go ahead. If I may ask, uh the question with all the
laborers, there's nine that are coming on. There's none shown supervisor. Will somebody be promoted within Pmpton Lakes and where is that cost? We currently Yeah. So, thank you. Um so right now the way our our department of public works
um makeup is we have a superintendent we have two supervisors one is dedicated for landscape and buildings and grounds one is dedicated for solid waste however they both are crossrained to to do both um and both are well trained to to take on any duties in the absence of anyone.
We also have very long tenur uh garbage truck drivers and laborers that have been collecting garbage for us for you know over 20 years um and know the routes hand in hand and and have the experience to be able to manage garbage collection in the absence of someone. Um
we do have a laborer right now who is a certified uh public works manager. So we do feel we have the sufficient uh staff to be able to manage the program. Okay, that was my question this afternoon also about not union and non-union the
leadership if taking on extra work are we going to take care of them financially um with extra salary that would be done negotiated through contract through their contract right all right because uh they're taking on a big job
here well and every contract negotiation there's gives and takes and people ask for certain things and you get tax certain things. So, whatever they're going to come to the table with, we would counter offer with our offer. Well, we still have a couple years for that. How many years is we just did? We just did our two more after this one.
Yeah. Okay. So, that that's a review of the financial and fee proposal. Um, and again, Q&A. Uh, we can certainly go into a quick close session. I'll refer to the governing body. So, what we'll do right now is on what was just presented just
presented. If anybody has any now and I'm okay, I'm going to start with I hear what what some of the people here are saying and I'm going to ask you two. Is it possible to get a final agreement that is final and not changing or that is not possible? No, it's it's
absolutely possible. Yeah. All right. So, I think what I'm hearing is they want to see a final final that they're signing off on and there's no changes to that final. So any concerns, questions, things you catch, concerns from this
group that you need to put into that that needs to be put into that to address that. Is that is that Well, I would like to have a close session on on how we negotiated that number. We're getting there next. We're start talking about this. Is everybody okay with what I just said? Yeah. Because the aspect of
it is for me is that we're going into a 5-year contract. I was elected by the citizens of Pumpton Lakes. And all due respect to the mayor of Oakland and to the citizens of Oakland, I'm looking out after the
residents of Pumpton Lakes first. We're not really a profitm organization. We collect taxes to provide services. If we can do a shared service agreement and make a dollar or two on it, then that's fine. But my first obligation is to the
citizens of Papa. And I agree with you that you you should know that the state of New Jersey pushes very hard for shared services. Well, God bless them. But I'm concerned about pump and two, we have to worry about the tax dollar at the end of the day. Of course, we do. This is bringing in revenue to do whatever we're going to do with that revenue. Well, this
this works. It It doesn't matter who it worked with or not. It works with us because our supervisor believes it does. Okay. We would have extra revenue to now play around a little bit with. We do need a new DPW. We're hoping we have extra
revenue. A lot of these like fuel costs, um, labor, um, there's a lot of variables in healthare. Okay. Healthcare. Could you address all those concerns that they just brought up, Michael? Well, I just brought up about the truck costs 175 to 341 in the two
weeks. That changed. So, I was going to address that before we got off topic there. Thank you. Uh, yes. Uh so at the last workshop the intent was uh to to purchase uh used vehicles and the problem is right now the state of New
Jersey has a requirement that for every 10 diesel or gas vehicles that a private you know vendor sells they have to sell one electric vehicle for every 10. So, we were running into issues with vendors not being able to purchase, you know, a
diesel vehicle, which is what we currently have and our mechanic contract services. We don't service electric vehicles and they cost more. Uh, so we were run we were running into real challenges finding vehicles. So, the solution at the time was for a used
vehicle, but since then we have gotten word through associations and through our colleagues that that requirement has been lifted or is going to be lifted. And you know, we were we were able to get a quote for new vehicles in stock,
you know, ready to be outfitted in time for this agreement. Um, so we felt it would be more beneficial to do that to provide for a more sustainable vehicle, you know, lifespan of up to 15 years compared to 5 years. And really we thought it was in the best interest of
our fleet to do so. Thank you. Could you talk about fuel health costs? Yes. Uh so as part of the financial analysis that was on the screen uh yes so the health the health benefit costs uh are using uh the increases that we have seen over the
past 2 years which again has resulted in 18 to 20% increases which really are really exorbitant increases from the state of New Jersey. Usually it's around 8 to you know 8 to 15% usually. Uh so again we have had trouble sustaining
those increases just on a regular budgetary perspective. Uh so those those uh costs are forecasted out within the fee proposal. Uh again same with pension pension is 15% payroll taxes benefits
are se 7.65%. And again forecasted into the fee is our employee contributions for the health benefits which is what they pay into the the uh health benefits to maintain them. Uh so again all those costs are escalated and forecasted out uh based on
prior and that's the only way to do that because we don't have those exact numbers right and employee contributions we have to look at in the next few years about increasing them. Correct. I would say that's a topic more so for a closed uh discussion. Uh but that would provide
for more of a savings in the future if we were to do something like that. Thank you. Um you mentioned bringing on all nine employees in I think it was the last few months of this year to train them. There are no there is no um fees
being paid in 2025 who is going to cover their salaries for 2025. Right. So we're I think we're looking to maybe you know get a formal agreement, finalize it sometime in the near future. Uh the intent is to you know solicit for
employees maybe in the midfall uh period try to retain them uh in the late fall/ early winter right at the end of the year and you may see a month you know a month cost of salaries just to train those people. Um but again we we're not paying that are we? Well, we
would be, but again, logistically, it would be impossible to to hire them uh, you know, in January and then train them all at the same time. There's a little bit of a of a implementation here. Um, but we believe that it works within our budget.
So, okay. So, just so we're on the record, and I'm going to let the attorney jump in here. This whole process started between our superintendent, our public works, our administrator talking about how we can make this happen. They have communication with Oakland, talk to the
people over there. Oakland comes to us and asks these questions. It then goes to the um uh uh public works committee who kind of talks it out. Dan Kane, Mickey Kane, they were all there to talk that. They throw their input into that and then it goes to the council. That's
the way it's normally set and that's the way the process is. Is that correct? That's correct. Absolutely correct. Um and then this is where we are now at the council. We should I agree with the one thing I will agree with with Bobby is we should take the time frame out of it because we have to do what we have to do. Unfortunately, that make could make
us in trouble, but we need to do what we have to do. So I think at the end of the day that the next we're going to go you know unless anybody has any questions about what was presented presented. Now then we're going to go into a close session to discuss some some other things. Then I'm going to leave you with any you help put this
together. So you tell me your feel as the supervisor of this department what you feel is the last take on what we need to do and say lots of it here. So when you last take what we need to do I'm asking what what do you I mean how do you feel the manpower is going to work? How how do you feel? Do you have
you see any problems? Do you have any issues or you have any concerns with this? No. Myself and my other supervisor that's a worker now that disability reach sat down. We even sat down with the employees to ask if they had any concerns or questions. Um a couple of questions from the employees, but they
were basic questions like more on the lines of like are we able to pick up the garbage and popped and then directly go to Oakland with the garbage in the in our truck and has been at. That's not that's not feasible. Other than that, we've had no push back. We hear some odds and ends but again that's all rumor. Um we do feel like again myself
and my supervisor spoke today we do feel strongly that we can we can accomplish this and with the manpower again we can still accomplish it and and talk about the benefits you see to pump from this agreement not the money side of it. uh biggest biggest one we'll see a
bigger improvement on is the snow pil currently we have 19 labors uh three supervisors so 21 people uh 22 people right now and another nine put at 31 uh we'll be able to maintain police department pretty much all night long but more trucks on the road to cover
snow plowing uh which would be a huge benefit for us to get the stuff done and roads cleared sooner rather than later um also based on what open has an ordinance wise for garbage collection and recycle. The size of the can and the amount of cans they can have out um and the amount
of dumpsters they have. They only have 32 dumpsters. We have over like Mike said before over 200 dumpsters. We pick up three times a week. Um for them to have 32, we're going to fly through that. That's the longest part of our day honestly is collecting dumpsters. Uh if we didn't have to collect that many dumps, we'd be done even earlier. So
based on that, we'll have the guys possibly 12:00, could be 10:30, could be 11 o'clock, could be 1:00 in the afternoon, but those extra nine people will end up we'll have those extra nine people to get other work done. So we can catch up more on potholes. We catch up more on those street signs being placed.
We placing these signs. You're talking about in Compton. In Pmpton, correct? We're not doing any of this work outside of Compton. This is all been pumped. Um, so these extra employees will help getting more of our stuff done now. We struggle to kind of keep up with. So when we hit this season now and the
grass is growing, fields are growing, we're we're we're always struggling, right? We're always behind the eightball trying to get things done. Correct. Um, you feel this will benefit us in not being behind the eightball. Correct. In doing that, correct. Going through the rest of the year, we do have five seasonal employees coming which will
help us to catch up on a lot of stuff that we have cuz we've had people on disability. Obviously, we can protect people on vacation and sick time, but at the end of the day, these additional employees will help resolve some of the issues that were happening. Will you need to buy new plows, too? No. When we
order a truck now, like we're ordering new pickup trucks, we order plasma. So, none of our trucks currently don't have a plow. Our cargo trucks are the only ones we don't have plows on because we can't make some of the turns in some of the smaller sections of town with the plow on it. So you're looking at a 12 to 14 foot blade on it and it's become end
up coming off the front of the truck about 6 ft. Yeah, those are all being used. You said extra people means extra plows. We don't have any plows that are sitting. I I I do always have two or three trucks sitting in the garage, but I also give more people can reshuffle here, EMS,
fire, the library, lakeside, all the bridges for the county bridges that we end up beyond now. So you think we have to shovel all that like so we have guys travel all over town constantly shoveling through the entire storm. So that's more bodies out shoveling like one either shoveling or two giving my guys a break cuz like I'm driving we can
put possibly two guys in a truck. So, one guy's getting tired. Here's a pull asleep while driving. I have another guy in there. I can swap. They can swap out. Is that going to be increased overtime expenses? Of course, it's going to be there's no way around that. That's not factored into any of this then cuz you can't guarantee. So, we have a win rate
of no there's a variable that we can't calculate that we cannot calculate. Yeah. But I'm sure you as part of your budget for putting in there what the overtime cost is going to be. Correct. It's not, you know, and I'm assuming that's based on years of experience and
knowing what you're going out there, right? Correct. So, I'm just concerned because I'm looking at a net number of 133 and a lot of variables of unknown costs and and I just don't know how much farther we want to erode into that before it stops making sense. Okay. So, no more. I have one. Oh, I'm sorry.
First, thank you. Um, I didn't see it in in the contract and maybe I missed it. Now, you maintain our baseball and soccer fields, correct? DPW. Are you doing that in Oakland? No. So that's not a part of it. Only Only thing we're doing in Oakland is their garbage, their
recycling, and their vegetative waste. We're not cutting their grass. We're not maintaining their roads. We're not doing any sign repair there. We're not doing their They have their own water department. We're not dealing with their water or sewer. The only thing we're doing is garbage recycling and vegetative waste. Okay. And no and no land. No landing. Nothing. Perfect.
Okay. Thank you. Um Yeah. I just wanted to the extra nine men that we're talking about. Um Dan, he knows better far better than I do. A lot of times garbage can get done early, but sometimes garbage is heavy. Um the logistics of a day's work. It's an 8 hour day. They
start at 7:00, they finish at 3:30. If they have a 5h hour garbage pickup day, one hour lunch, you're not really going to be able to the logistics of it for that 2 hours send guys to Joe Grail Field to cut grass. They got to load the equipment. They got to go to what? They
going to cut grass for 20 minutes and then turn around and come back home that. So the extra nine guys, you know, don't rest on the delusion that we're going to have so many man hours to clean up the town. Setting them out at 2:00 with an hour's worth of work left, you know. So you got a schedule right now as
far as the maintenance and and landscaping cuz I've seen your guys there and it's usually at a set schedule week to week. So, I don't foresee that changing other than the fact that if for one week, maybe you're short staff night in, maybe there's staffing issues for the day. They call out sick, maybe
you're delayed. Um, but for the most part, Justin speaking to a lot of the commissioners regarding all the sports. They've all been very happy with the schedule right now as it works right now. The only other thing I can possibly delay with that is rain. And we can't control. Yeah, you can't control rain at all. I'd be a multi-millionaire. And
we've had our share for the last couple of weeks over. Okay. So with that I am going to move into close session uh motion to join Excel. Okay. Oh, we're not we're dropping them. Yeah, we're going to do them at a different time. Is that up to
you, Mike? We're okay with that. We defer we defer to the government. Yeah. So they'll be on the workshop for the next council meeting. Yeah. No, we are not voting on this at the next meeting. We're being given a revision and we're discussing it again. Yes. I think that we'll I'll and I could address this in
closed, but you know, we'll kind of regroup. We'll go over it one final time. We'll send it again to the power attorney to look at the compliance. Um we'll bring back the final draft. Uh you know, we could have a discussion about it again. Uh and then, you know, go from there. Can I ask that closed be moved to
the next meeting because three of us have to leave at 6:30 and it's going to take more than 10 minutes to address some of these questions? Yeah, I defer to the No, it'll be a vote. I mean, uh who's leaving? 9. The three of us have to leave at 6:30. Can we hold the close session about the negotiation process for this contract until the next
meeting? I'll leave that up to Michael. I You're the time frame, guy. Well, we're going to be discussing it anyway. So, all right, then. We're motion to adjourn. Second. So, moved. Councilman somebody. Thank you.