And we're live. >> Okay, here we go. The following the following is the agenda for the regular meeting of the Palm Lakes Redevelopment Agency. The meeting is to be held in the municipal building at 25 Lennox Avenue on Thursday, April 30th,
2026, beginning at 7:30 p.m. Formal written advance notice as required by the NJSA 104-1 has been provided of this meeting at least 48 hours in advance of today, giving the time, date, and location, and
to the extent known at the time the agenda of this meeting. Such notice stated that formal action may or may not be taken. This meeting will be video recorded and will be broadcasted for later views for um viewing for the public. The notice was posted in the
bulletin uh board outside the office of the municipal clerk's reserved for this and other similar similar announcements. Number two, provided uh to the record the newspaper designated by the burough council to re to receive such notices. and three filed with the burrow clerk.
Let's stand for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
>> Okay. Um, roll call, please. >> Miss Novak here. >> Mr. Sinki, >> here. Mr. Ross >> here, >> Mr. Kimberlin, >> Mr. Lavasi >> here, >> Mr. Prea >> here,
>> Councilman Venon >> here, >> and we have Mayor Sarah >> here, >> uh, Mr. Dominic >> here, >> Russell and our PL engineer, Miss Loudis. Okay, good. Thank you. Okay. Um, and
it's okay. Okay. Anybody with cor in regards to correspondence, we have um two memos from Elizabeth Brandis. One um with the adopting the burough's affirmative marketing plan for affordable housing
units and two adopting uh fourth round affordable housing spending plan. Anyone have any questions regarding that or discussion? Okay. Okay. So then we will go on to uh the minutes. We have our minutes. I'll make a motion
to approve the minutes. >> Okay. Anyone second the motion? >> I'll second that. >> Okay. Okay. Very good. So, we have a um Mark's going to second the first. >> Hold on. I don't know. He's not doing
something. He >> He can He can move in second. He can't vote on if he wasn't at the meeting, but you can move in and second a motion. >> He was here. He was here. Got sworn in. >> He got sworn in that night. >> Okay. That's right. >> Okay.
>> It was a while back. >> Okay. Um, does everybody >> Is there any question? >> Just in case people weren't here. >> Okay. >> Okay. Roll call. Miss Novak. >> Uh, present or not present? Uh, here. I mean, yes. >> Yes. Thank you, >> Mr. Sinki.
>> Yes. >> Mr. Sinki. >> Yes. >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> Mr. Ross. >> Yes. >> Mr. Kimberlin's absent. Uh, Mr. Lavasi. >> Yes. >> Mr. Prea. >> Yes. >> And Councilman Bennon. >> Yes.
>> Okay. Okay. So, now we have the the bills that we've been um voting on for the past couple of meetings that we've had. So, we have um anyone have any questions? We have $25 for general ma matters in January. Legal fees for I
guess that's um Meridia. >> Yes. >> Okay. The Meridia project for $22.50. 50s general matters in March 2026 for 259 and legal fees for this um the um the Pompton Smith properties for $1,225.
Anyone have any questions or the $1,225? Is that just standard legal fees for >> review of everything that's come in with the agreement and the plans and the correspondence election? >> Okay. >> Generally what that is. >> Okay. Thank you. Next page is collars. >> I'll make a motion to approve that and
the engineering professional services from Collier. >> Okay. Second. >> No, it's just >> Oh, yeah. Thank you. >> I'll second. >> Yes. >> Okay. Do I have to do a roll call for that or
just >> It be all favor. >> Okay. All in favor? >> I >> oppose. Okay. Here we go. Okay. >> Okay. So, the executive director's
report. Do we have anything? We >> do not have anything at this time, gentlemen. >> Okay. Thank you. And then we are into the conceptual presentation. We don't have any. And formal presentation would be the pompith properties.
>> Good evening everyone. >> Good evening. Steven Melennic from the firm of Green Memor and Davis here on behalf of Compton Smith Properties for this formal presentation. Uh it's good to see you all again uh and and be before you. Uh we are here on a
revision. We're seeking an amendment to what this body had previously approved, which is both the concept of what you're going to see before you today, uh, the redevelopment project, a redevelopment agreement, which this body previously also approved the substance of, and why
we're here today is what I'm about to to go into. So, as you may recall, this is a project uh that spans from Wanuk up and around where most commonly known is where the ice cream store is. Um the project was
approved and it included previously 57 units. uh we had as a requirement of the uh or a condition of the approval is we needed an amendment to the redevelopment plan for a number of provisions that are currently in the re the redevelopment
plan for this subject property. After we got the approval from this body we had subsequent communications with with council with mayor um and there were concerns that were raised regarding the scale of the building the height of the building. So rather than continue to go to council and force a vote on an issue
with that with people we understood were unhappy, we took us we took a step back and said let's revise this plan so that we know everybody in town is going to be uh satisfied with. So what we did is we took an entire floor off an entire level of the building has come down 11 ft in
height have come down. The unit count has come down now it is proposed to be 47 units. An additional change and an unfortunate change for the developer here is that when we first proposed this project, we were operating under the third round rules of affordable housing,
which as you may recall, and as the mayor did a fantastic job during those those negotiations, you had very favorable uh and attractive provisions for developers, which could include up to no more than 10% of the units as a set aside, and 7% of that could be paid
or 3% I think 3% uh could be satisfied as a payment live. We're now operating in a new world in the fourth round rules. So, of those 47 units that we're proposing, we now had to increase our affordable housing uh allocation as well, which we are able to do at this
size. Um, in addition, as you may recall, if you were here, we had significant back and forth with this body over the amount of retail space that was going to be included. despite our lowering the building and reducing the unit count, we are maintaining uh
five different units of retail um at considerable sizes. So, we think we we we keep what this board ultimately was satisfied with on the retail side. So, what we're doing here tonight is we're asking for you to reopen your prior approval and approve the project as
currently designed. We are going to if if that meets your approval, then we're going to subsequently ask for you to adopt a resolution approving a redevelopment agreement, a modified redevelopment agreement with this scope with recommendations to be made to the council for the approval of three
things. Number one, the redevelopment plan amendments that are going to be articulated tonight. Two, the financial agreement, the pilot that we've already we're not going to get into tonight. you previously got into all that and that and you previously recommended it and we're proposing the same terms obviously
just at less units and three and importantly an eing agreement for us to to to develop this it requires access to the lower level parking on site through the pond hole. We've met with obviously
the mayor. We've met with your uh municipal engineer uh on this as well as well as your municipal attorney. And the proposal is to provide uh no specific meets and bounds for this easement through the pond. A general vehicular uh
access, meaning that there's no prohibitions whatsoever on the municipality to future develop this site with a garage or any other building. You're going to still have vehicular access in some form. and and so long as we have access to the rear, uh that's what we're proposing. We're obviously also proposing to compensate the
municipality on that. If it is so approved, it would be based on the appraised value. And so the municipality would compensated for that as well as uh the spaces currently in the pond hole that would be lost for that entrance. And I think uh I think collards estimated that to be three spaces. Um so
that would come at the council level, that appraisal and all that, but that is what the proposal is. So to my right is the project engineer Bob Weissman. We'll start with his testimony and ask to perhap this morning. >> I wanted to state something real quick just on the recommendation of a pilot or
a financial agreement. Um there's a lot of new members and a financial agreement. You guys don't approve that. It would be a recommendation to the governing body because that's an agreement with them. the the basis for a pilot payment in the w of taxes is that
the finances are such that it requires a tax break for the pilot. Um for new members to do it. Uh it would be my uh you know might want to speak with me and Glenn, but also provide some level of information, a proform or something for
them to be able to see, not wave around. It's not you know they can review it, but if you want them to take a position, yeah, make a recommendation. uh since there are new people that there will be a new or at least some justification for them to base that on which >> that's and that's fine between now and
we've never given a pilot presentation to this body u but we have supplied the materials and Mr. Dominic has reviewed them and made recommendations and I'm happy subsequent to this meeting if we have your approval on the project to update those proformas and provide that information uh to Mr. Brewer and to Mr. Dominic that at the next meeting he can
present their recommendations to you. But they should be uh in line with what this body previously reviewed and Mr. Dominic recommended. But for obviously it's less units so there'll be less revenue. Um but for the new members in addition to what Mr. Brewer said, it's not just a tax break for the developer.
It's also a tax incentive for the municipality because you end up earning and keeping more money uh than you would on traditional taxation. And I'm sure the mayor would would be happy to to share the experiences they've had with pilots thus far and I assume in a positive way. >> I just want to add because we do have
new members and I know the old members understand the pilot agreement is worked out with the administration and the council. It really has nothing to do with this body sitting here. you'll be made aware of what it is obviously but the agreement that we use would be worked out among us and like like uh
Steve was mentioning um we work it out to some be around the 10% 12% 9% 8% over a 30-year time period so and I can only use the Meridian building as an example the taxes that were paid on the property to us at the time when it was before it
was built were $26,000 the first year of the pilot when it's 80% filled will be 350 escalating up to a million dollars after after 30 years. So just that's a quick brief thing about a pilot and where it comes from but that would come from the council >> and that's 30 for 30 years and then then
to >> it should be zero to 30 years be zero 30 years and it's variety and they have the final negotiation on the you said a percentage the way a pilot is determined is the revenue that it brings in. of his rental and there's some specifics on defining but the revenue that comes in
you pay a a a set percentage of that instead of taxes in taxes you pay a percentage. >> But you ask a good question because that was a discussion at the council level with our attorneys and they recommend all the time at least a 30-year pilot and anything less doesn't work for both sides. >> Okay.
>> So we we had a long discussion about that actually. >> Yeah. We we and I was involved in that with the Sujin property and uh municipalities smartly brought in Phoenix advisors. Is that's still here you're using? Um who will represent the township in those negotiations. So our ask specifically is going to be our proposal. We're not going to negotiate
that with this body. They're going to do a good enough job negotiating that at the council level. Um so >> hold them up for they they sure do. So uh going back to Mr. Weissman, Mr. Bur, I'll ask that you swear him in. >> Sure. Please raise your right hand. State your name. Spell your last. Robert
Weissman Wis Sm. >> Do you swear or affirm the testimony you'll give before this agency this evening will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So, I help you got >> I do. Right. Mr. Weissman has previously testified in in this matter. I don't know if you would like him to re-qualify
himself or >> we we've had a tradition of saying that they're qualified and they're testifying, but it's not a hearing where they're going to find a truth. I'm very happy that he can I think he ought to give the uh members the the benefit of
his experience but it's not technically required that um a um get my bachelor's master's degree civil engineering from New Jersey Institute of Technology. I'm a licensed professional engineer surveyor in New Jersey. I've been practicing civil engineering primarily
in the field of sight plant subdivision work in northern New Jersey and Bergen County and SA County. I've been qualified many many times as a as such. >> I think they would recognize him as having expertise. >> Well, I was going to So, I know he Bob's old school, but we have them on here
right loaded. So, if you could just show me how to do it. >> Okay. >> To use it, we can use the screen. >> Um, so where would I go to go to his plan? >> You can just um close that and it should have a file. >> See, I I pressed one thing. I screwed
up. >> All plans are deleted. >> No. >> I can't see that. >> Yeah. Um, >> let me go over here. No, no, >> just watch that wire. >> Yeah. >> Right. I want to be on TV.
>> Yeah. I love it. >> Okay. So, you have a folder right here. Um 2011 YQ and then here it is. Did you want this part? >> The engineering plan. Yeah. >> God, slow >> this. Right. Okay. And then you can play
around closing this out and then do however. >> That's the architecture. >> That's the architecture. >> Oh, that's the architectural thing. Okay. back to >> this one. Okay. >> All right. And now here you
>> zoom in there. There you >> just minimize it. I don't know where you want to go. >> Yeah. So, all right, Mr. Weissman, you've been an engineer on this project since its inception and in the previous iteration that was approved, correct? >> Correct. >> And you were asked to make revisions to
the site plan consistent with my introduction and the reduction in size and scale of the building. >> That's correct. >> Okay. We are looking at your site plan. Can you identify the revision date on this plan? >> Sure. The last revision date is 3626. Um the original date 2722 as we started on
this. >> Okay. Why don't you walk the board through what the revisions from the prior approved version were? >> Sure. Um the original plan had uh we'll start with like the parking and access. It's primarily what my plan is about. Uh we had on the original plan we had some
parking on the it's called the first floor level which is the street level with entry coming in from Kfax. Uh and then we had an exit initially out to Lakeside Avenue. Um that um is is eliminated on this plan uh as we have
now. The first floor plan is totally either retail space or residential space. Again, with five um good size uh retail spaces and I'm trying to see how many number of apartments we have in this level. Um
spaces, uh apartments on this level, uh fitness center, a community center, and again five um retail spaces. The lower level uh down would be entered through the pothole um that was discussed that goes in. That's primarily
all parking. Um there we have a u the total of the parking spaces or parking spaces required with this new layout. We have 47 units. Uh total of 71 spaces for the apartments, 21 spaces required for the retail. Total required is 84 spaces.
Total provided is 39 spaces. Uh there's a 15% EV charging 11 provided and then there's an EV credit for 10% for eight spaces credit. And what percentage are you using for parking >> um >> for the per for the required? >> Yeah, >> I believe it's 1.4
>> the 1.5. Okay, >> it's 1.5 on this one. >> 1.5 is the current, >> right? >> What we're proposing as one of the revisions to the redevelopment plan, I believe, is 1.4 plus the licensing that we'll get into in a second in the final.
>> So, can I jump in and ask a quick question? Um, are you considering the shared parking between the two or you simply adding them up? because I believe there's a mathematical error in the total required >> um >> which I had pointed out in the letter. I just wanted to bring that up because
>> Okay. Um so we are going to be picking that up in the pothole council. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So the proposal is that we're providing 39 on site. >> Yes. >> Um and we have to pick up the rest from the pothole in consultation with uh
members of of uh the administration. It's our understanding that the spaces are available. >> So, just again for the new members, uh we, you know, we got the pond bowl that has about 206 spots in the back. Uh we had set aside a bunch for the uh theater
and the theater was working. Now, the theater is gone. We do have some extra spots available in there. I can't say with the council we haven't discussed it, but I know I've spoken to my clients or with the administration that we we would think about selling them spots. >> So, 43 is it a 43 spots you would need?
24 there's a because we're getting the EV credits correct >> so whatever that number is it's around 25 or 24 whatever it is that's something we would talk about there has been no discussion about it but we will discuss it and there would be a monthly charge
to the town for those >> which is consistent with what you've done on other projects including uh Musi's project and whoever >> anything that's being built on Wanq right now or has been built has purchased subspots from five to 17.
>> Do we know do we know how many spots we have down there totally? And >> right now we're using about 69 that are paid for. Um that leaves about 140 open. Uh and again that's taking it in shared parking concept.
>> So those spots are open to shoppers during the day. Even the ones we're talking about now that they purchasing, there's no assigned spots for anyone. No one gets assigned spots. >> And is that including the Meridian? Um, >> yes, that includes. >> Okay. So, 69 have been paid for.
>> I think if I remember correctly, was uh most of that's on site and I think they purchased two. >> Yeah. >> Something like that. >> Okay. >> And Joe and Ben's uh CGM uh I think was 16 maybe. I don't. >> Yeah. >> And then I think the uh first project
was maybe 12 or 14. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Lakeside. >> Lakeside. >> No, they were all they built the eight on street. They didn't do any potholes, I'm pretty sure. >> No, they have some in there. Yeah, I think they had >> Was that subsequent because they were having parking problems? Maybe. Oh, maybe that's what it was. >> Okay.
>> Can I ask why the 1.5? I think our ordinance is 1.75 for one >> the redevelopment plan. I'm pretty sure >> that ordinance doesn't apply to the redevelopment plan. >> The redevelopment plan has its own parking standard. So, I I don't remember what they are. >> So, our normal standard for most of the
projects we were doing was 1.4 to 1.5. That was our normal standard. People came in at 1.2. I can tell you the previous projects are 1.3 and this board said no, you have to increase it to the 1.4 1.5. >> Okay.
>> Yeah, that's up to you guys to discuss. >> Honestly, the only reason I ask is because we rolled in the higher parking standards into the what you're working on for the >> I don't have parking standards in what I'm working on. >> Okay. Maybe I Okay.
>> Yeah. And just uh just as an FYI, when this was originally approved, the amendment was at a 1.4 ratio. >> So you can go ahead, Mr. West. Um so the uh the access for the again the pond hole, we'd be losing three spaces to
come out into the uh panel area with the garage. That'll be this whole access to lower level building. Inside we have obviously elevators to access all the floors. Um there would be um four levels
of the uh apartments and the uh to move over here. Um so we have three total of five units on the uh first floor. Second floor we have
14. Third and fourth floor we also have 14 for those three floors with total count of 47. Um we are no longer proposing access uh um to Kfax Avenue. We will be um proposing a uh an access
up to uh just into the pond hole and the uh lakeside island access was concerned with the the board as far as the traffic the turning etc the
movements there school that access that area. of that's been eliminated. >> So, if we can look at the screen and just orient the board, especially the new members. So, we're looking at the lower level here. This is the newly designed and if if I'm doing this right, there was an access onto Kfax right
around here. >> Uh, yes. Correct. >> There was an access on Lakeside over here. >> Correct. >> Okay. Both of those have been eliminated. So, there's no vehicular access directly to KFax or Lakeside, which was a concern because there's an intersection right here. Uh and and um
it also did not help the street view um the aesthetics of the street view. So now all parking access is proposed to be through pothole here. Is that correct? >> That's correct. >> Okay. >> There um tandem spots uh which is not uncommon in these type of developments
for uh cuz you get one and a half or two uh for a for apartments for um one behind the other. So there's two eight eight uh sets of uh tandem spots. >> Oh, so explain that.
>> Those are counted as two spots. >> Yes. >> Uh yes, we do count them as two spots. >> Can you sell those though? >> So they're counted as two spots and the redevelopment agreement that we proposed has um mandated that each lease for the 47 units is guaranteed one space. Those
tandemss would be sold in connection with the unit that wants a second space and they would be those tandem spaces would have to be uh to the same unit. >> So then th those people would have actually two spots where everybody else has one. >> Well, we're doing that's what the that's
where the point4 and the 1.4 ratio comes. Guarantees everybody one, right? And the point4 is extra for those who want to purchase extra. And if they want to purchase extra, they're going to be assigned the tandem spots first if they have two two cars to one. I >> I'll ask you any I'm not very familiar
with the tandem parking and that's something that we use. >> We've seen it. Um we've seen it in the commercial properties too where they require valet parking to assist with that. But >> the key is as long as they're the same unit, then they're in charge of back because if they're different units, then you're going to have a car blocked in.
So they have to be assigned to the same unit. So, not not every unit not every um not every unit's going to have parking under within the building. >> That's correct. >> Yeah, >> that's correct. >> So, you'll have like 23 31 of the 57 or
47 will >> I think. >> Well, 23 because right because you're because eight um >> 16 there's 39 on site. >> Oh, okay. Okay. 39 on site. But 16 you have to All right. You have to you're going to
be eliminate 16 out of eight >> because one of those 10 spaces will go to a unit. >> Okay. Okay. >> So the other the eight that are behind and blocked in will be the second park parking space for the units walking. >> Okay. >> So there's 31 independent parking spaces
for 47 units. >> Right. >> And then the other 17 will be in the pile. >> And is there enough again I'm going back to engineer with the tandem in under the building. Is there enough room to maneuver while there's cars in there, take a car out, then put move another
car in >> based on the minimum aisle space that they've given the outlets? Yes. >> Okay. >> So, we're proposing uh sidewalks around the three sides of the building. Uh we've got the utilities connecting water connections out to the existing water
mainfire connection. Uh we have ADA ramps on the corners of uh both Moniku Avenue and Kfax and Kfax with lakeside. Um there's proposing tree wells wells with trees obviously along the uh the frontage
around the three sides. Um, and there'll be some uh utility connection uh modifications down in the pond hole for the sanitary sewer. And we'll be tying the uh the drainage from the building and the parking to the uh
the existing storm drain system in the pond hole. >> Okay. Should we um know we have this letter. Should we be addressing the point by point? >> No, you guys will go over that. You're talking about the college then? >> Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. We'll get Yeah.
>> typic typically the way I've done it, they do the whole presentation. >> Okay. >> But you do. >> No, that's fine. I'd like to do a typical That's funny. >> Is this building completely coming down? >> I'm sorry. Yes. >> Yeah. As you know, at one point what we tried to do is evaluate structurally
whether we can just keep the structure there and add on top. Our structural analysis proved that that was not going to be safe or effective to do. And if and this is just throwing something out there. I'm always pushing for the larger sidewalks, the new things they were built.
>> And I understand it backs up to properties that we own. Correct. Some most of it. >> If if if some deal was worked out where we were to give you some space in the back, would you be able to push the back building back a little bit?
>> There's no move no room for movement of the building itself. So we we're right up to the property lines. No, no, but I'm saying if we were to use on the property on the back side, which is ours. >> Um, well, there's a building that is right buted up against us. >> Yeah, I don't know. That's what I don't know. Right. Really can't be
>> I know you're landlocked into this spot. I know. >> What are the widths of the settlers? >> We have them at I believe 8 ft. >> 8 ft. Okay. >> Is that what they are currently? >> I believe so. Just looking to see if I have a number. I can tell you if you look at the Meridian project now when they put the
sidewalks in, it does look more to me much larger in sidewalk than it did previous because it's one piece. It's solid. It makes it a big difference on how it looked if you can remember how it used to look, but the nobody's there. So, I'm hoping that we have the same effect. >> Well, it is it is wider.
>> It is wider. >> It's 10 foot and it's it's 10t to the inside of the tree and it's 13 ft to the curb. >> Oh. So it's significantly wider than proposed. That's what it is. >> Oh, that is. >> And the 8 foot sidewalk width. It does look like that would only be Lake Side
and KFax. >> Mhm. >> The corner of Wanuku is like extremely tight. >> Well, that's different though because you have you don't want a setback on the corner cuz I think that lines up to the building next to it. Well, you couldn't you could
>> Yeah, it's not I would say it's misrepresentative to say that it's 8 foot consistent building. >> Oh, no, no, I'm not saying that. >> No, what I'm saying is if you were proposing to make it 8 ft on Wanq, if it's not, that would require a step back from the frontage of the entire
>> on the corner. You could you could um >> you could camper that corner on the ground level. >> Exactly. >> Can do what? You could you could that corner on the ground level to make pedestrian area a little wider and still get all that space above. >> Yeah. >> And I think you'd have to ask the board, but I think the board would cuz you're
giving up a little retail. That was part of the argument. But maybe they would accept the fact that you're not only leaving that corner off, making it more space. >> You're just angling it, right? >> But you're giving up a little retail. >> Yes. >> Not store the coffee shop, 1400. >> I mean, that's something I would think is nice, but it would be up to you.
>> Yeah. Safer, I would think. >> Great. I don't think we'd be opposed to that as long as we can do it where it doesn't affect the upper level. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. You would just build your normal up. It would just make the corner a little.
>> I think it would it could make a really nice entryway, too. If you have that angled >> Well, that's the way it is now, but it's not great. >> Yeah. Well, this is not the proposed entryway, though. This is just a story. >> Yeah. >> Like the the old building. So maybe what you want to do is ask how
they feel about that idea so they could add incorporation. >> It would the trade-off madam chairwoman would be reduced retail. >> Right. And how many square feet are we talking do you think >> we're talking 20 square feet? That's what I'm think I have to look to you people. >> We have 14.
>> Does everybody understand and um >> concur or anybody have a an idea a thought? >> I like the idea. >> We like that idea. Okay. So we're going to write that idea down. So, and that's something you think you could incorporate it. >> Yes. The coffee shop we have on the
corner is 1,434 ft. So, they could >> reduce it by much. >> Yeah. I think it'll make a nice look, make a little any more space I can get downtown. >> Just just on the ground floor. >> Yeah. And that would be without a column, right? >> No, there be a column in the corner. Yes.
>> Cuz you need to preserve the corner for the upper levels. You can't can lever that much. >> So there would be a column in the door >> in the corner. So would that be a >> you have to walk around? >> You have to walk around the the small column.
>> I mean it if I show if I had a picture I could show you. You've seen it probably before. And yeah, you there's kind of a column on the corner and you can >> if there there would if there was a door at that angle, you could access from either side and it wouldn't necessarily
widen the sidewalk because people aren't going to be going like in and around the column, but visually it will make the sidewalk look bigger. I mean, >> it's like a sight triangle. >> Yeah, it's kind of like a sight triangle. Um I mean, in a perfect world, that would be you'd be able to cancel lever the upper floor, but I'm not an
engineer to tell you. >> So, you can't cancel? >> No, it's it's for three stores. I would suggest not. >> Okay. >> It's a structural issue. >> Yeah. >> But even having that column, I think, is better than than not. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's very tight right there.
Otherwise, >> you can try that. >> So, we'll we'll we'll we'll try to engineer without the column, but if we need the column, we'll Okay. >> have to install the column. >> There's ways to make it a nicer column. You know, >> of course, >> we don't just want a metal pole. >> Corinthian. Yes, I know.
I'm not going to dictate your architectural style, but maybe. >> So, I have a question for you. What you brought up about I'm going to ask the idea. You said there was you said there was three spots going to be taken from the panel. Are we agreeing with it? It's only three spots.
>> Well, I actually took that from I think you so the access that we lose is three spots. >> Three spots. So I I talking about right site plan it might be worth considering the similar on street parking that they
did for lakeside. >> We had talked about that previous meetings. >> They're now closing that driveway. >> We we had talked about that at previous meetings and it was this board that rejected the street parking on that side. >> There's no room. >> But I think it's a room issue but it's
up to the body the board here. We do show on street parking in Kfax, but that's the only place I think that we could uh >> I think >> that could be accommodated. >> There is like there's on street parking on Lakeside now. >> No, >> not not that sides on Kfax.
>> On both sides parking on both sides. >> So here we're showing if that's the side you're talking about. We're already showing that. >> Well, on lake on Lakeside >> there's no parking there cuz that's where the ice cream station is and there's no parking from the ice cream station. >> Right. Correct. Because there's a
driveway, right? >> No, because there's no room there, right? Oh, >> too close to the corner. I don't think that would be Yeah, I think that's >> It doesn't start until the first building after the ice cream station. >> We can't park in front of the ice cream station currently.
>> Any spots on >> We could probably get one more. I mean, my suggestion would be to consider changing the radius of this inter of this intersection, tightening the radius to match across the street. >> Putting in a bump outside.
>> Yeah. >> Intersection. >> Yeah. >> Um, and what bring So, it's a sharper. >> Yeah. Make a sharper radius. >> For what reason? So that you could put a bump out, curb bump out >> and continue the parking further to the point >> and you could potentially spots that
make up the three spots. >> Distance to the intersection though >> that is there is a restriction for that. You'd have to look at it. I think it's 25 ft >> and it's primarily a concern on stop when you're going >> out of an intersection
>> not into an intersection. Honestly, the issue there is that radius is so big, >> you have speed issues. People blowing making that turn very fast going to the high school. >> If you tighten up that radius, >> you could potentially get a bump out of
there, >> bring two or three more parking spaces in. You'd have to look at it, right? I'm looking for it to be asking for it to be looked at. >> We can look offset. >> It would offset your three spots. very tight expensive, but it it may offset
whatever we have to pay to take those three spaces away. So, it's worth looking at. >> And your plans also don't include >> spots that are open to the public across the street of the other
side. Correct. Because there's that's open parking. That's not their parking. So, we're not using that as a number in your numbers, right? >> Correct. That's correct. And if it wasn't said before on the retail, um, >> the applicant has committed to making sure that all current tenants will have
>> the option to to lease first. >> Okay. >> And the retail, you tell the number six. Can you tell? >> Five. >> This is five units, but Bob, if you want to. Yeah, I'll just walk into it. We start on our left at the intersection of Wanq and Kfax is a coffee shop with a
1,434 square which come down by 3 corner sit down. Next retail space number two is 1,66. Detail space number three is 968 ft.
Retail space number four is 1494. Still spaces number five is 1257. >> Those are similar to what they >> So if there are no other questions for the engineer. >> Anyone have any questions for the
engineer? >> Okay. And so um >> should we go through the >> Wait, I have a question for the engineers. Can I ask? >> Yes. >> Is is it just a leftover notation where on coax and >> the depress? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay.
>> Okay. >> Would you like to go through the letter? >> Absolutely. Um some of the comments are persons too. So we'll start with number one um on the site plan. This was the question I asked earlier about the
parking requirement. I was simply reading your your chart wrong. Um in a sense when you add up the 71 spaces in the 21 you get 92 and you were showing total required 84 but you are taking um an eight space credit for the EV. So
that that's fine. um finished floor elevations and sidewalks. I know you're you're still, you know, moving along with the process, but it would be good to see entryway elevations. Yeah. Well, it's everything's pretty
much on grade. Fortunately, it's it's relatively flat in the front, >> but the architect's still going to be working on the finished elevations once you get get, you know, farther along. But this it's going to be similar to what the carrier I think the total building height we have is uh 57 ft
proposed. >> Yeah, I think I think I read that 257, >> which is listed as a request. >> It was 68. >> Does it require variance, right? >> It does. It does. 12 >> needs an amendment an amendment to the
>> just going through a lot of these I think are um >> I tried to address it >> comments too that you might be more familiar the site plan needs to reflect we're saying the layout design of the street level upper level garage area um
we're a little confused over the parking arrangement because it looks like the two levels are kind of overlaid on each other I think It's just a graphical issue. Um, >> this comment number five. >> Yeah, I tried to disseminate between the two and I think we've got it pretty well
covered. The >> I'm sorry. >> I'm sorry. I'm just looking I'm just thinking out loud. I'm looking to see what we have that might be overlapping. Looks like the first floor U plan is pretty clean. the lower level. Um, we got some cross-hatching
and some existing conditions underneath which go and we just, you know, freeze or remove the plan to clean it up a little bit. I think each one is pretty uh straight as far as what's being proposed on each level. >> Okay. Um, we also noted that there was
no proposed streetscape design, but um, for some more familiar, >> I mean, some of those things are un understand that you're not going to flush them out until you have the confidence that you're going to be able to go to the planning board. Um, so to some extent, some of these comments are
kind of preparing you for what we will expect down the road. Um yeah, so like the proposed streetscape design. Um we'll be looking for that at the time that you um are going to the planning. >> Can I jump in there? And she brings up a
very good point. It's something that we missed in the radian project. We didn't have the streetscape put back the way it was. And luckily, we caught it right before they were going to cement it down. They were actually just going to pour cement in the sidewalk in between our brick that's down already. Okay. Luckily enough, they agreed to put the
brick in. Something that all boards kind of missed. >> This does show brick. So, >> we're on the right track. >> We're on the right track. >> Yeah, I think we got to that point in the eye. So, it's a carry on from there. So, I think we do have the So, it's the concrete and then the brick along with >> it follows what's there now. >> Yeah. >> Okay. I think that's what's shown here.
So, and the trees are obviously whatever commission discussion would happen right now. Trees. So, Okay. I guess one of the older comments as well had to do with the interior garage areas that they would need some
form of drainage. >> Yeah. >> Um so I'm assuming that that's going to be flushed out with >> Yeah, we do show some inlets in the in the garage area and run up in the cars. It's and obviously that is again being connected to the uh drainage system in
the pond hole. We have trench drain at the uh entrance from the pond hole at the where it gets into the building. >> Mhm. Um so that should be the extent of the bridge and obviously the roof drains coming down will also tie into they would be all internal within the
building down spouts going from the roof. >> Okay. And all that will would be shown on a future set of drawings >> for our preliminary final site plan. Yes. >> Of course. Um also the next comment kind of follows through its drainage calculations just to confirm the
capacity of the downstream pipe. Um that's part of the planning board submission. Um, next we talked about the adequacy of the proposed tandem parking. I think this is one of your comments. >> Yeah, I mean the board has already spoken a little bit about this. Um, when
if and when we get to the point where we're going to be amending the redevelopment plan. Um, we'll probably write some language like x up to x percentage of parking spaces can be tandem so that we're not seeing a rearrangement that like >> you know all we have all tandem spots or
something like that. But we can work that out when we get >> I think you may have to in your I think you started a draft of this under the prior >> I think I did >> and we just have to update it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Because if you want a recommendation from these guys they'll
see exactly what their you know list of every specific thing >> which is attached which which is attached to the draft redevelopment agreement. However, I believe there was one in the review letter that picked up that we didn't have which was the aisle width from 24 ft down to 23.7. >> Yeah. 3 in off. >> Yeah.
>> 2375. Yeah. >> Um >> I know it. >> Yeah. So, well, I I did write something a while ago. Do I remember the details of it? No, but it's saved. I >> dare you. Yeah. >> Well, it's saved and and we'll um we'll tweak it as needed.
>> So, let me just ask. So, we're going to we're hearing you now. Are you are they going to come back here if >> um >> No, we're we're agreeing to make these as conditions for when cuz remember this this has to go to the council then it goes to the planning board
>> and as as you heard from your planner these are the details that are going to beable after I mean this board decides if they're going to come back or not. So that's they can propose that. But if you want to see what that column and that sidewalk looks like, you can say come
back and they can do it on the same night that they vote. So you don't have to hold them up, but that's your decision. >> Okay. But in terms of the amendments to the redevelopment plan specifically, like tonight you're going to say to me, well, if you choose to, >> you may say to me, um, Kristen, we're
okay with them having, um, X a height of X as opposed to what's currently permitted of 45 ft. >> Okay. >> And then you've charged me with making that amendment, and I will do so. And then that will be given to the governing
body and the planning board. um if if you want to see a draft of that document that I write, of course, there's no reason for you not to, but it's really >> once you've given that direction, >> the adoption and recommending of zoning
is really in the hands of the governing body at and with the recommendations of the plan >> and it can be a very simple one. It can be a recommendation to draft amendments to the redevelopment plan that make this conform. So you don't have to list everything say when you're looking at if
you're happy what you see and the heights and everything you don't you can tell her >> make this conforming and that's that's enough that would be enough I believe >> that's better in case so that if we find >> another 3 in that's a great point >> and I just want to remind everybody again this already went to the council
as presented now past went through you guys and it went to us they're making amendments to that change but we've already approved the previous project >> we meaning the council. Okay. >> So, they they were they were still working out well, they were still
working out some issues, but it we we we've discussed this. We we've had conversation on this at the council level about what we want to do. They didn't present because they want your change plan because of the parking parking situation had come up. So, now they've done that. If you make your
changes and everything goes good and everything's well, then it's going to they're going to present to the council also and then they'll make their recommendations too. So, you know, there's two steps involved for that. You're the first step, we're the second, planning board is third. >> Okay. >> So, there was another question I had
about again, we're going back. Has the MUA has this been brought to the MUA? >> I believe we didn't. >> It was a discussion with them. >> It was brought to the MUA. We have capacity. We do not yet have an agreement which would be the next step.
>> You did talk. Yes. Okay. And that's actually the next um comment in the letter. Um I don't I don't think it's unless of course the board would like me to go over it. Um I don't think any of the other comments really
affect zoning or the development plan or anything like that. They're minor technical in nature that can be addressed in the submission to the planning board. So, Madam Chair, if you'd like me to go through any particular question, I can rather than >> um >> go through everything.
>> Defer to anyone on the board that would like to >> Is there a reason you guys pulled the green roof? >> The green roof? >> Yeah, >> the green roof. >> Maybe that's a question. >> Okay, no problem. Um, is there could there be consideration for some type of
subsurface storm water storage just for the roof drains? Uh >> we're we're just a town that floods. You know, you get two inches of rain and a pothole has 3 ft of water in it. So, >> we're not doing our job if we don't push you guys a little bit on storm water. >> Um we can Well, at first I'd like to see
what the ground is like to see. >> Understood. >> Yeah. Capability to but we can't just put it overflow out to put some water down. >> That's my thought. Just some dry wells of the building. >> But again, first I'd like to do some holes to see if it's fusable. >> Okay.
I would like that to at least be a recommendation that that be considered. It's going to go to the planning board. >> No, just storm water. Some type of storm water retention. >> Okay. >> Infiltration pit, something under the building to the floor type control just
to control the roof drainage. >> Okay. Now, this board just and I I learned this myself because the my build inspector called this board at the time we did Meridian which was so long ago on Babcock decided to only put the width of a sidewalk in and then put greenery,
grass and trees in there and not make it cement from the building to the curb. Um I don't know what you're presenting here. Is it is it just curve? >> You lose your 8 ft. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's that's why I want you to know, you know, for that project, for whatever reason, at that time, they decided a
walking sidewalk with green grass between the sidewalk and the walls and trees. >> Mhm. >> Um, this is having also meant larger sidewalk, but there's a little more space that we're needing too on the sidewalk. So, just keep that in mind. >> The lakeside um commons or what the
other apartment, but they have um >> I don't know. >> They have green space between the the foundation and the sidewalk. >> Okay. So that would match. Okay. >> Yeah. I mean, so do we have room for that in this project? >> Firstly, I I don't think it's a good
idea to uh introduce um any drainage. Uh if you just talk about green, I think that would probably work. Uh again, that would reduce the width of the 8ft sidewalk. That's the only way we could >> Is that a hard thing that we have to keep that 8ft sidewalk? >> I think what you guys want to decide is do you want to give up the width of an
8ft sidewalk for the greener, >> right? >> That's what you guys got to decide >> and it can be done. It doesn't really impact much on our own. It just I would suggest not putting any drainage because there's you know basement right the jeans. >> So do we have cantal lever here on this?
I mean is it somewhat can levered on this? Um it does just I guess these three bumpouts are are cantalvered. Is that it? >> Refer to the architect. >> Oh that's an architecture. Okay. >> Yes. We'll talk about
first. So I I'll defer the architect. >> Okay. Any other questions that the board wants to address for the engineer? >> No. Okay. So we'll be >> um >> It's it it's it's hard because it's all related, right? The engineer
>> and building layout and configuration, right? Um the >> and and there's the twoft alleyway. Right between the two buildings. Were there prior discussions? I I don't know where the board was like that. They don't own that alleyway.
>> Correct. >> The other business owns that. >> I mean, what are you suggesting? >> Uh, I was suggesting they push back their corner 2 feet. When the next person comes in, they push their corner back two feet. And now we have a sixoot
alleyway. >> And so we have access to the to the pocket. We I can say the town is not in favor of alleyways because they uh >> they cause issues with people hanging out in them and graffiti and and you have to have locked fence on them and then involves opening and closing. The
only issue we have with real graffiti right now is on the side streets which is badcock on the theater and the alleyway. >> So I'm not in favor of an alleyway but that's >> So So how do we how does somebody access your building like retail to the to the
pond hole? Is there is there easy access >> from our building to where >> to the pawn hole? >> I mean to the lower level, right? >> Yeah, that's that's the only access. >> But that's that's open to like the public, not just the >> No, no. That's the garage door's going to be closed. >> I thought your question was from the
buildings. >> If I was to go into one of these shops and I parked in the pond hole, how would I get >> upstairs internal stairs that have public access? Yes. For for people to go to the right here. >> Oh, they're resident. No, >> stairs. Where did my cursor go?
>> These stairs here. >> There you go. It goes up and down, too. Yes. To There's a public hallway. >> Is it Is it Oh, right. >> So, this is the street level. These are the retail stores, >> right? >> This would be the stairwell that empties into the parking lot on the lower level.
>> And then there's a hallway that leads up >> down here. >> So, most people do not use the alleyway to go to the pondo. Okay. if they're going to shop in those shops. A lot of uh businesses have a rear door that they allow them in and out of to go if they're parked in the pond hall. It usually involves steps going down steps.
I'll use Steve going most stores as an example. You park in the back, you go down the stairs and you're in the pawn or you walk around >> and that's what those steps would I could go. >> Yes, there's a small lobby there that's labeled and the stairs go up to the first floor level. >> Then that'll open up into the
residential space, won't it? Uh yeah, you can enter um I believe you can go out from there to this carter that goes out towards Culfax and then I think that's where you get the uh access to retail stairs. >> Wait, if the
my point is that if that if that stair is accessible to the public, then the public has access to >> Yeah, there needs to be a door so that can't happen. New York. >> I don't think there's access from >> We're going to get the parking lot level.
>> Clear up our uh >> our mistakes. >> Okay. Um anyone else for the engineer? Okay. See, >> he's going to remain in the room. So, we got more questions. I'm sure you come back. >> Thank you. >> Run away. Thank you. >> Run away.
I am calling up our project architect, Yogish Mystery for Mystery Design. Ask that he be sworn. >> Please, please stand. Raise your right hand. Spell your uh state your name. Spell your last. >> Yogish Mystery. Y O G E S H M I S T R Y.
>> Do you swear or affirm testimony you'll give before this agency this evening will be the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth. So help you God. >> Yes, I do. Thank you. >> These ones first. Uh let me control it
first. Um Mr. Misty, you've testified before this body on multiple occasions and different applications, but as with Mr. Weissman, if you could give the board the benefit of your qualifications. Sure. Uh I'm a licensed architect in the state of New Jersey. I have been since 2000. I have a practice
in But Lake, New Jersey where uh which provide architectural services for various types of projects including multif family uh office buildings, hotels, retail, so forth. I've been in business for over 20 years. >> Okay. >> And you were the architect in the
original approval? >> Yes, I was. >> And you were asked to make revisions sub uh subject to the reduced size that we've been discussing? >> Yes. >> Before I ask you to go through the changes, I don't want to leave anybody in suspense. Can you clear up the confusion over the stairwell? >> Yeah, it it's not a public stair. It's
the the two fire stairs are meant for uh the internal uh residential population. >> Okay. >> So then the question that was posed is if you are I think the chairwoman asked if you were >> if we were shopping in one of these shops and we parked in the farm hole, how could we get to? >> Yeah, you would have to go around. I
mean there's an access on lakeside. There's that kind of that walkway and drive u kind of a driveway/ sidewalk or you could kind of cut through this little alley that It does kind of shimmy through it. >> Yeah. I mean, it it does pinch down. So,
four or five ft, I guess. I don't know exactly. >> 24 in. >> Sideways. >> All right. So, with that clarified, why don't you walk the board through the revisions that were made? Can I just what you mentioned I I and maybe it's something you want to think about is in
your retail spaces there might be a way to put an outside entrance to the pontole from inside the retail. >> No, there's an elevation difference though. We're we're up at we're up at uh you know street level and the pond hole is you know a little >> I mean it would be to the retail's
advantage if they had someone who they could park in the back and get right into the retail in the back. >> Yeah. I I think I mean maybe for employees they might give them access cuz you know there is a door there's there's um >> like if if you go to the lower level
>> there's a door in the back but it would be locked. It's not meant for anyone to just walking but let's say they are an employee then I'm sure they could kind of coordinate. >> So there's no fire doors from the retail out to parking. >> No transformation. But, you know, if if employees were
given access and they parked in the pothole, they could go through this door and then take the elevator up, which kind of gets us back to that level. >> I think that even if employees are given that right, you need a you need a second set of doors to that to that residential corridor.
>> I I >> like nobody should be able to get into that corridor if they don't live there. >> Yeah, we had Yeah, there is a there is a secondary. >> No, but from the elevator. >> So, how do I make it? You're Are you Are we talking about the elevator that's at like that bend in the hallway? >> Yeah.
>> So, if you're saying that an employee of one of these stores could go up that elevator, they there needs to be a door so that they can't go like to the right into that residential area. >> Yeah, I we could add a door. You're right. I mean, >> it's just not secure.
>> Yeah, it wasn't me. We This issue just came up because someone asked about the public access, but I'm throwing out there employees. If we don't provide access for employees, then the only people in that quarter should be residents, >> right? I'm not I don't have a preference as to what what employees are allowed to
do. All I'm saying is if they're allowed to do that, there needs to be another door. >> So, restated the condition would be if if if non-residents are permitted access to that, there needs to be a secure door. >> Yeah. >> Okay. I I agree there. Yeah. And a way of limiting the elevator
access and the stair access to the upper floors, too. >> They're going to go up. >> Yeah. >> For egress only. >> Yeah. Block from the outside. >> Yeah. Like you should need a you should need a >> floor to go up to those floors. >> Correct. >> Okay.
>> Yeah. That would be the intention. >> And is that just because we're dealing with this meridian is that the fire escape for people in the retail space? >> No. So everything's coming out. >> Yeah. The retail spaces are there's five retail spaces. They're all generally small and they'll have a fire door right
onto the street side. >> Street you don't now based on the square footage of each space. Now you don't need um so yeah the two fire stairs are strictly for the uh residents. >> Okay.
Um yeah I mean just going back to the changes I think many of them were discussed but the the main uh reduction has been the uh the fifth or the the upper floor it's been taken off and and lowered down to uh have a reduction by
one floor. The total number of units is is down to 47 units. Uh the breakdown of the units now is uh 33 onebedroom, 12 twobedroom and two threebedroom total 47. Of those um 10 units are COA and
then the the COA breakdown uh is two onebedroom, six twobedroom and two threebedrooms. And that that breakdown is really just a mandated uh ratio. So of the 10. And what's the uh square footage on those?
>> So the large the minimum square footages of the onebedrooms are 750. I think I think it's actually 755. Uh the twobedroom the minimum is 1,000 and the 3bedroom the minimum is 1,400 which are all our requirements.
>> Yes. Yes. That's the >> square footage requirements for 750. the the two bedrooms needs I think it's slightly off. I think it's on the list. >> Oh, so the two bedroom is like slightly
long. >> I think >> yeah, it's slight it's very slightly off, but they're all consistent with like if you look at uh you know what Yogish was referencing before was uniform housing affordability controls, U-Hack, >> they set the standards for the how many onebedrooms, two bedrooms, three, right?
They all also under the December 15 most recent amendments have minimum sizes >> sizes. Okay. >> And these all far exceed like for example the one bedrooms I think is 525. >> Oh okay. >> 750. So >> okay. >> Um since we're on the ground floor I'm
calling the ground floor which is the street level elevation. Um just to kind of walk you through starting at the right side of the the page that's on the screen. That's that's um Wan Wan sorry. >> Yeah.
>> And then as you turn it the CFax is along the bottom of the page and then Lakeside on the left hand side. So starting at the Wanuk side there's a coffee shop of 1434 square ft. Um then as you turn the corner there's a second retail space which is store on Kox. Uh
that's 1,66 ft. Mhm. >> Uh then there's a a a set of doors that allows residents to access uh through the elevator lobby. Um and then right after that is retail space number three, it's 968 ft. Um and then retail space
number four after that is 1494. And then retail 5 is 1257. So that kind of hugs um Kfax uh all the way to the kind of the corner of Lakeside. Mhm. >> Um and then behind it and you know kind of facing one one unit facing Lakeside
and the bounds facing the ponhole there are five apartments there um they kind of hug the uh perimeter of the back side of the building. Uh then within the footprint also there's two uh common spaces for the residents. There's a fitness center and a community center
room. Um, and then on the on the corner uh kind of in the far corner on Lakeside, there's just uh the electric meters and transformer room. It's just got to have that somewhere on the uh on this level. So, >> so in reference to my friend uh Councilwoman Riker who was on this board
for many years uh and she did have this question she would always bring up with packages being very visible now and deliverable. >> Is there a place for that to happen? >> Mail room. Yeah, there is a um the the residential corridor is kind of two accesses. There's an access off of
Koffax where it's a double door you can get in. It'll be a you know a key fob type security door and then another access off of um Lakeside and that there's kind of a double door again. You come in through this residential exit
corridor, but then there's another door that leads to the sort of private residential corridor. And you know, and then as you walk through there, the elevator lobby's in the middle, but then off of the that residential corridor, there is a mail and package room. >> So that is a separate room. It's
dedicated just for that purpose. It'll be big enough to have packages as well as the mailboxes. So like the counter >> the delivery men would come in through which >> they would have to come in through here and back on this. >> There's a doorway. Yeah. There's like
>> two sets of doors there. >> Is your retail trash taken out through the front? Walked around. >> Yeah. They would have to walk around and in the it's in the lower part of the garage >> in the corner there, right? >> Yes. It's uh
the retail trash is garage door right on this corner here. Um yeah, I mean that's that's where uh the trash is also the residential trash is in the uh lower level as well. The
the termination room of the shootute. This is trash that extends all the way up through the entire building to the top floor. Uh residents will have a you know a location on each floor to dump their trash. It would end up at this lowest level. Um trash would have to be hauled out of the
>> And where is the corral itself when you put out the can garbage from the hole? >> That's on our space. >> Well, no, you wouldn't pull it out. The the you know the trash truck would come Yeah. You'd have to roll it out. You'd have to roll the dumpster out. It would it would pick it
up, dump it in their truck, and then you have to wheel it back. >> So, you're not going to you're gonna wait. You're gonna know when the truck is coming and the guy's going to roll it out at that time. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's how it's usually coordinated. This is a discussion that we had and the preference was not to do this on Lake Kofax.
>> No, no, I understand not. >> Yeah. But this is going to go out into the pondole. Is that covered with by the least that you can >> by by the agreement by that agreement? >> I can't I can't recall, but I think it needs to. Yeah. You have to make sure that you're allowed. >> Right. You're using our space requirement. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Is there >> is your recycling handled the same way? >> Yes. There there are >> No, it's not in the shootute. There there's recycling containers on uh each level and those would have to be uh
picked up by the management too. Um there's one chute in the building. I mean, unless they're using a service that provides co-mingling of the recycling and uh trash. >> But but my client brings up a good point. The recycling then is you'll have your manager take it out, but then
again, it has to go somewhere to be picked up. It won't be waiting. It won't be a truck there waiting for it. It'll have to be put out somewhere to be picked up when the truck comes. >> I assume it goes down the elevator into the garage in the same general location by the pond hall entrance.
>> Yes. Yes. What? That the the residential trash room isn't by the pond hole entrance. It's more interior to the garage. >> No, but the retail is >> Yeah. So, the retail people have to go out on their pullbacks, walk around the
block, and back into the garage. Is that right? >> Correct. >> Where do they go now? >> They just put it out the can. >> Is that what they do? >> Which was a discussion point in our prior that I'm just asking because like that I understand that. I'm just
>> But we also are, to your point, trying to be have dumpsters in the back that people are using to dump it into a dumpster. Now, unfortunately, they don't have any space to do that. No, >> I I'm with you. >> And I would almost suggest, and I'm going to throw some out, you probably hate it. Uh maybe you take another spot
out of a pond hole that you purchase and you use that as a corral for everything that the trucks could go in and out of any time you pick up. Cuz I see I see a nightmare going on here with cars parked, moving, trying to bring the garbage out at the same time a garbage truck's coming in. You got to reach out
where people are trying to get to work, >> right? >> Can it can the trucks get through there? >> Where? >> It's going to be tight. There's cars in there. It's not the easiest of turn. We do it now. We pick up garbage in there, but it's not an easy pick up. They might be private. I don't know which way
you're going. I mean, are you relying on us to do it or private? Do you know? I can't recall what we decided on this one. >> I think it was you. I think it was public. >> Okay. So, that just keep that in mind. That could be a little bit of a
small garbage truck. We have the pull truck >> and those are the ones that are entering the puddle now. >> But they're not making turns. They're kind of just going to the ends cans in the ends. >> I think we can co I think we can coordinate where you want us to bring them out to. >> Well, no. See, the problem is you don't
have any property to bring it out to. >> No. No, no. With the with the understanding that we are going to use the pond hole to bring it out to when we roll them out. It's where you want us to roll them out to when the pickup is occurring. >> Right. But what I'm saying is so say it's a spot that you didn't purchase.
We're not going to tell you put the garbage in a spot that could be used for parking. >> So you need >> you have no space to actually use the cans and grab the back. >> I I understand. So you have dumpsters now, >> right? >> Back there in where this >> No, we don't have dumpsters.
We don't have any dumpsters. Okay. >> So, we would want them to purchase. Um, maybe >> I would leave it up to them to figure out the best pattern for them, >> but they need to have a place where they have a right to leave trash and a ability for a truck to pick it up. >> Now, they might do that privately, and
some some companies have smaller trucks that would be easier to move. Um, if we go in there and try to pick up dumpsters, we're going to need room to back up that truck, move it in, and that would mean spaces to do that in. There's no place to do that in an alley. Um, so
it would be used spaces. >> Yeah. We wouldn't go into the garage itself. They would probably leave it outside >> and and and what I'm saying is in other projects that we have, they roll it out to somewhere and when the garbage gets picked up, it gets picked up. There's no
be there at 10:00, we'll be there at 10:02 to pick up the garbage. It's you leave it out there for the morning and they come and pick it up. The problem they have with their situation here is they don't have any space in the back. So they couldn't roll it and leave it somewhere unless they were to purchase another spot where they could corral
that fence it in. >> Put your garbage in there and just leave it. >> How often do you do pickups? >> Twice a week. Well, yeah. Twice that. Well, let me change it. Three times a week. >> Recycling. And do and where is your um garbage
collected like within like where what do the tenants do with their garbage? >> Yeah. So there's a trash shoot on each floor. Okay. >> And they would dump it in the chute and it would go all the way to the lowest level. >> I I think originally I know this this project has gone back and forth many times and >> originally there was a you know sort of
a garage area on the upper or the um street level. We had a trash area and you we also had two driveways and that was like we went back and forth. We eliminated those and I think the idea originally was that we would bring trash out to the street here at the street level. >> That was, you know, not the most
favorable. So, we we kind of brought it down and anything new we're building in downtown now. We're trying to dip it garbage to go to the back side, not to the front. >> Now, old old buildings, that's what they've been doing. But I could say half of the people, especially the smaller redevelopment projects, have dumpsters.
They have actual dumpsters and they dump it. It's on their property. We come pick up the dumpster and it goes out. >> So, it's something you'll have to think about for now. >> Yep. Okay. Good comments. >> I I mean, I don't know if it's possible. Maybe we recess this and just created our dumpster area right there and, you
know, have access from the outside. >> That's something you could do on your own >> with an overhang. >> Yeah, with an overhang. >> Yeah, let's let's look at that. >> Again, just check the radiuses for a truck to get back into credit. Well, they don't have to necessarily back it in. It would just be coraled here and
they can pull it out and they >> Well, our guys are not going to move it. So, that's the problem. >> You know, you guys would be moving it. >> But that's a dead end there, right? >> Yeah. >> You never No matter what, you're not going to get a truck. >> Yeah. How you going to get a truck down there?
>> You got to let the dumpster. So, you can't do a small truck. You could do a front end truck in But they'd have to back all the way out. >> No, cuz there's aisles that can go up and down between the parking, >> right? But is there an aisle to the right? I thought it was kind of tight there. >> They're tight aisles, but there's three
aisles. There's three aisles, >> but they're tight. We have I can tell you this. We had an issue with a fire truck and we're I can tell you we're going to probably remove the railings that were put in the pontoon, the wooden railings. >> Mhm. >> Because too many people were breaking them and mashing into them because they're so tight, including garbage
trucks and fire trucks. And we're going to pull that out. We were trying to slow the padding down in there speeding wide, but it's working against us now. And I think at the time they put too many spots into an area. >> This is where >> this goes kind of back to not to you but
to the civil that >> weird >> you guys may want to show more of the parking lot on your site plan >> so that we can see that flow of traffic through there. Not necessarily for us but >> going to the next level. The council is going to have to review the easement and
>> it's probably I just showed it to Glenn, but if you look on Google >> there where we're putting this truck could just do an easy turn. >> No, no, I I I didn't believe the truck can do it. I'm just concerned that if there's if it's a full lot for some reason, it becomes tricky. >> Well, you have to plan for it to be a
full lot. I get that. >> But even with it being a full lot, this is a picture of >> pretty full. >> This is where it's going to take. >> Yeah. >> Oh, no. I I know just as long as there's place I think my biggest concern is you can't
have deduction but just >> remind like this this has not changed this is what all was previously approved >> um there were two other questions that were raised on the candelier >> fevering >> yeah we could look at that I I I know I
was listening to the discussion you know if we could kind shamefer this corner off and you know if it's not that deep and we could lever that would be ideal and and not have to deal with the column and it would kind of be kind of defeat the purpose almost of you know kind of widening that >> I think I think you're right I mean it
look very nice too >> so yeah we definitely making an effort to make that work >> and then the other question was the green roof >> yeah the green roof uh is really you know discussions with the climb we had a small portion of the roof that was green before We did eliminate that mainly
because the maintenance issues is really, you know, the only access is there like a roof hatch go there and maintain it. I'm not sure how much it does in terms of storing the water. >> It's not a green roof. I'm >> sorry. Did you saying it's not a green
roof? >> Something like some kind of retention, water retention, storage. I >> I mean, we have to talk to the site to see if we could put a dry well underneath and try to catch some of that. you know, it'll be underneath the the lower level parking and and try to um you know, catch some of that rain
water in there. Something we could think about. >> Okay. >> Uh just another question just before I forget. Um how about is there are there going to be uh dogs in the um apartment and do you have an area for dog walking?
>> Uh I don't know. I don't know if he's going to have dog. Are you going to allow dogs? Bill, >> that's a great question because it's another thing for sure. >> Well, any size dog, you're going to need a place walking on your property. The issue I'm having with lakeside and over
is the walking over smaller. I mean, we we do have a courtyard as part of this still. It, you know, the the courtyard did get a little smaller from the original one only because, you know, we're trying to make the plan work and make the number of units work. >> Is there grass to this courtyard?
>> There could be grass. We don't have right now. >> It's on the second story. >> Sorry. >> It's on the second story. >> It's It's not It's not Yeah, it's on the >> It's on the >> street level. Street level. >> It's No, it's one level. >> No, that's right. Second. You're right. >> It'll be on the first main level of res.
Yes. >> I'm going to make a suggestion. You can bring it to your your bishop of people who might want to think about No. >> No. No. >> I like that better. And then and then how about what is the square footage on on that uh courtyard?
>> That courtyard I don't have a label on that square footage of that but just looking at some of the units in in that area it's probably about 1,000 square ft. >> Only 1,000 square ft. >> So coach going back if you decide to go the other way have pets you are going to
have to have an area to walk the pets. Okay. >> They can have a bird. >> You'd rather dogs than birds. You've heard birds. >> You can have a goldfish or a bird. I guess you >> was there anything else? Um, no. I mean,
in terms of the changes, no, everything really uh stayed the same besides what we discussed. Um, yeah, I maybe the number of signs might have changed because I think we have I think we did have five units, though. We have a total of
um 303 ft of signage which uh >> What kind of signage do you have? >> The signage is really what's on the the retail spaces is coffee shop sign on the uh coffee shop and then the other retail spaces there
>> is that boxed um lighting. >> No, we're showing awnings there. We're showing awnings all along the streetscape and the you know the signage. >> Well, we have our own and Chris probably. We have our own standards. >> We're working on that, right? Yeah.
>> But they're not quite done. So, >> no. Well, we have initial we have the map, too. >> What what we're doing I just have whispered to the mayor about this. >> Okay. >> A few minutes ago. Our what we're doing now will probably not be adopted prior to what this team is presenting to the
planning board. But um I don't think that there's anything that's particularly off with this project as to what we will end up adopting in terms of design standards. And I with with the permission of the burrow, I could always show them what our design standards are
and hope that in goodwill they >> kind of play along. >> All right. So, so, um, just curious when you say like signage, um, you said that that's that's the awning. So, are you not that the meridian has those box that box
lighting? >> Box lighting is accepted. >> I'm not loving that. >> Yeah, but that's that's >> I know that's already done. >> Well, I'm just saying that's in our ordinances of the type of lighting you can have, >> but I thought like, you know, when um Michael Frizzio was
toying with design standards, that was one of >> They never changed any of that. Yeah, but that's one of the things that they were like, >> so that's what Chris is talking about. We are in the process of changing it, but it probably won't happen by the time this project come first, >> right? So, like, can we get rid of it? >> If we tell them we don't we we're we're
planning to move away from box lighting, but we do like, you know, facade lighting with gooseeneck facade signs with gooseseneck lighting or awnings ABC. Like, I can show them to the team and hopefully they are fine with it anyway. >> Okay. >> You have complete approval here.
>> Right. Right. So, we could just say no box question. >> You could, but then the the uh they're going to say what you want. >> Yeah. >> Well, then we could ask Kristen for some ideas. And she does she does describe some ideas, >> right? But then there's also the standard of the town.
>> Would you be open to considering >> no backlit signs in some sort of alternative? >> That's the question. >> No box signs you're saying? >> Yes. Are would you be okay with facade signs, wall mounted signs that were gooseeneck illuminated?
>> Yeah, I think that would look nice. >> Yeah, I think that. >> Yeah. >> So, say that again. >> Just wall signs with goose neck lighting. >> Yes. >> Yeah. So, no warnings. >> No. Uh, >> no back. >> No back lit signs. >> Okay. >> Well, no, I didn't say no warnings though, right?
>> No, no, the warnings are fine. >> No, just that's what I interpreted when you saying walnuts. >> Okay. No. If No. If there were things that were other than awnings, signs other than awnings, it would be that. >> Yes. >> Awnings are We like awnings. >> Right. Right. Right.
>> Well, is there is the are the awnings illuminated because >> No. >> Yes. If there is something other >> stores that are open at night, how do you >> Well, I mean it's just I mean, we could ask we could add gooseeneck lights to the awning itself. I mean, >> email me tomorrow and I'll send you the
draft of what we're working on. Can we look at page four of the architectural plans? I think it's top level. Uh uh page floor. Maybe page >> three. >> Yeah. Whatever shows the top floor. Yeah. >> Fourth floor. Yeah.
>> So if you if you zoom >> this is the roof plan. >> Uh yeah, that might be it. If you zoom in where the cornice is on the right, >> yeah, >> it extends beyond the property line. >> I don't know that you can have a portion of your structure that extends beyond >> the right of way. I think you're allowed
to I I this is if this is not a right of way. If this is an adjacent property, we might have to trim that back on that stuff, right? >> But even a right away, I don't know that you have permission to put your >> There's usually a several there's usually an allowance for several inches, but I don't remember.
Well, you have to check. >> Okay. I just saw that and don't want that to be >> and can you just go over what the courtyard is? Explain what it actually presenting there. >> No, this is a roof plan in on the second
floor. >> What is actually what is it? >> Piece of cement. Just an open space. >> Well, yeah, really just an it's a you know, right now it's showing pavers within this courtyard space. I mean they would just put put out some uh you know lawn furniture and things like that. Um
>> really just there for egress, right? >> Ultimately it's there so you have a second exit for your apartment. >> No, it's not a second exit. It's just it's for lighting air and >> it's for windows windows in there. >> That's what it's for. >> Yeah. >> So, >> but it's also your second
>> if people are hanging out there. >> You can't you can't exit street level from the courtyard. >> No, you can't. It's not meant for an exit cuz you this door is really an entrance exit into the courtyard, but anybody coming out would either go to this fire stair or this fire stair. >> But so how would you
um prep for um what would you do about privacy? Because let's say anybody who lives in that building can go have a little whatever barbecue out there. Um, how would we prevent them from like
>> getting right up on the windows over? >> I mean, you can't I mean, you know, you'd have to maybe screen it from >> I would say maybe have >> planters of X width along the perimeter of that building. Maybe like, I don't
know, 3 ft or 2 feet um of planters to at least keep people away from those windows a little bit. I was going to say these are all units. >> Yeah, the units look in necessarily. >> I mean, not only to keep the creepy
people from looking in, but to keep like to keep like a malicious person from trying to get in. >> Right. Right. >> Yeah. But the only people that are getting into there are people who live in >> that mean you don't have creep in your building. That's >> the creepy I get, the malicious I' and
I've always said my wife, somebody wants to get in, the potted plane does not stop. But I agree. >> You're you're right. But it it it at least provides a fabricated sense of safety. >> Well, somebody could just put their chair right next to your window. >> Like stand there smoking.
>> Exactly. >> Oh, yeah. Are you allowed to smoke on those? >> Are you allowed to barbecue is my question? >> Yeah. I would say no. I would say no to barbecuing. >> No. No. I don't think >> Even if you're hanging out there having a a whatever a birthday party, you don't want somebody who's like this far from your window. >> Right. Right.
>> What about music and Well, that's going to be up to management. >> Yeah. >> So, this is just for the next question. Is there management on site? >> There's no super unit. >> Yeah, there's no super. It's only 50 or 47. That's >> a good amount. Yeah,
>> I would say better. >> We're not I'm going to make that suggestion. >> I I have not seen or done any building less than 100 units of this. >> Thanks. I promise. >> You forced me.
No, I don't I don't think this >> I I'm just saying I don't speaking for my police and everything else, you know, we we stop a lot of concern if management steps in before police steps in, right? >> Um you know, for stupid things. Um I'm not even saying you have to have limited
management. It could be management that's there during, you know, hours. Um you know, you have to find a little space for an office, but not a lot. Um they like normal maintenance. Who's doing that? >> Right. >> Well, there's going to be a professional management company and there's
>> a offsite. >> There'll be a portfolio management company that has multiple sites within the area. Yeah. >> No, but I'm saying you have to call them when there's an issue. >> That's typically how it works. or there's there's typically the professional management companies and anybody who's a renter here probably
knows about it but there are a lot of um programs that as a tenant you have access to and you put in work orders directly through that >> right but I'm saying say the front door doesn't open >> right >> okay they're going to call the police they're not if >> no they should they the man there is they their management company will have
an emergency number they all they always do >> I'm going to make >> 47 units is not I mean the superintendent would be >> so twiddling renting these >> through the management company. They're going to have to be there'll be appointments. There's no leasing office for 47 units.
>> I'm not asking for leasing office, but I would think the same gentleman that you would have on site for concerns or hours would also be char leasing shoveling around. You know, I've been in many buildings that have somebody doing all those things. Um, I'm not saying to live in you don't have to get space.
>> A super. Are you are you accepting to take one of your units as a super not to make not >> No, I don't know yet. >> I mean, we we could easily add a small office if you want. I mean, we have this uh space on the ground this uh
>> Is that what you're asking for? Okay. >> I'm not asking for a room for living. I'm asking for a small office that you have. >> We have this, you know, community room. You got to carve out some space out of you. Put a desk in the community room >> and you can use it to sell those things.
>> You got you've also got that big space like around the corner where you're by the elevator. You're like a huge lobby. >> Where? >> On the first floor. >> On the first floor like Yeah. In the center. >> The board. That's just my suggestion. You guys don't want to do that.
>> That's great. You think? >> No. That's a small office in there. I mean, we we could we had to carve out an office in the community room. We could >> community room. How the what's 675
square ft? >> Matter of fact, if I rent it might be to super have an apartment. So, I don't know. >> That's I didn't want to go that would be better. >> Yeah, >> that would be better. I just know dealing with the small units
that we have when we have units that are 25 50 45 things pop up all the time and if there's management on site at least they can get the project started the process started not saying you're fixing it but at least starting instead of a resident who doesn't know any better there's a dog running around the backyard they're calling the police
right instead of the manager just saying let's go see whose dog that is this guy's dog whatever example >> right right they're not allowed >> not that's Maybe the bird's flying in. >> Any other questions? >> Okay. Any other questions on the
architectural? Um, so you're you're 8 ft the just 8 ft on the um the sidewalk, right? So I'm just thinking of the um the optic right now. We have that we have the open space there from the ice cream station.
And we were thinking about maybe making that more of um bringing out that curb a little bit and creating more green space there. >> Well, it's actually more than 8 ft cuz we we did set the building. If you see this is the property line that's shown in the heavy uh the dark line. So the
building is set back the upper floors to can leave or over like 2 ft or so. So that I believe the 8 ft is from from side from the curb to the property line and there's an additional 2. >> So there's an extra 2 ft or so. >> Yeah. Yeah. Except except at this corner where she kind of
>> cuts back. >> All right. So, you're looking at maybe a 10 foot. >> Okay. >> 10 foot 10t from the back of the curb or 10t from the back of the pa border or 10t from the back of an >> Well, those are all very very different
numbers. >> I believe right now the existing properties are right to the property line. See that that shaded this kind of hatched area here. to the brick building that goes right to the property and we're actually making it a little better by pushing our building back.
>> So you So that's you know that's good news. You are pushing the building back a little bit. >> Yes. >> So but you're not really you don't really know. I'm not I'm not getting a a clear idea of >> No, but if you look at this this drawing on that's on the screen. This shaded
area goes right to the property line. The shaded area is the existing building that's there. So we're our building is 2 ft back from there. So regardless of what this dimension is, we're picking up an additional 2 ft. >> So you're you're thinking 10 ft.
>> Yeah. If the sidewalk is eight. Yes. An additional two. So that would be 10. >> I know. >> Cuz what you could end up if you have a true 10 ft smaller table, if you have a coffee shop for example, could put a
small table out front and 9. I don't I don't think it's going to be I don't think I don't think they're proposing the curve. >> Just just eyeballing it. If that if that if that's 2 ft between the property line
and the building, then it certainly looks like at least four of those to make it 8 ft. >> Okay. >> I just feel a little Okay. I will say my struggle with this is the the my kids just started riding their
bikes yesterday. They were so excited to go to the ice cream station and hang out in that while it's on private property. It essentially has a park-like feel. >> That area with pavers, with benches, people walking their dogs can hang out
there. Kids can hang out there. you you end a baseball season, you go to the ice cream station, right? That is a huge community field. And I understand it's on your property >> and that is a struggle because the viability of this, right? And the area you need and the the units you need,
that is a total struggle, right? I understand that. I also understand our ordinance that requires 75% max building coverage, >> which would be 25% open coverage, which in my mind was envisioned when the plan was developed. This this lot hasn't
changed from when the plan was originally developed. And we must have taken those things into consideration when we developed the plan that we want to maintain some semblance of open space or open feel in our downtown. Um,
height, height, height is the is people are hammering us on height, which is why we're here. You hear it all the time. Um, I personally can give on the height if there's a give on the feel on the space.
>> I know you're back here and I, you know, I apologize that I'm asking things that I'm sure have been discussed at previous board meetings. I'm a new board member. We have two other new board members. So, um, you know, regretfully, I want to
revisit some of the space that's already been tried. Now, I understand I'm only one board member, so that's certainly to everyone else's discussion, but that's just personally where I come. >> Just Yeah, >> it's it's and look, cards on the table. I'm an engineer, so I look at things logically all day.
>> I have to look at this more emotionally from a town feel. If redevelopment doesn't give people in town what they want, >> then this board is gonna lose support, >> the council's gonna have a real tough uphill battle to push these projects
through and make redevelopment plan changes. So that's just I guess that's my soap box two cents to the rest of the board. >> I understand what you're saying. The other thing you have to keep in mind is there's no guarantee even the ice cream station comes back, right? It's his choice to come back. >> And I and I I I don't want to even say
the ice cream station. It's just that >> they feel and any retail that goes into one of these units to be able to market >> clothing store. The kids don't care about the clothing store, right? They're not going to drive their bike to the clothing store. >> Correct. >> But but I think to um to Matt's point is
that we're we are losing that small town feeling and this is built out to the maximum beyond the maximum. Um, can can you can you entertain the idea of changing that curve line because that would would that help out?
>> I mean, that's going to give some like So, if you go to this plan to widen this curve, you're saying >> so this survey is not reflective of the current condition on the other side of the road. This might have been done before Lakeside was constructed.
On the left side of this, there's now like a a bump out and on street parking strike through. Now, if you flatten this radius just to match the radius on the other side, you're going to create more space on that corner. More nonvehicular
space on that corner for pedestrians for >> So, you're not changing the plan, you're just changing the street. >> I would do both, but I'm presenting, you know, but it stacks above. So you're pushing it back. I would
>> What did that one retail on the corner? Retail five. >> Well, let's let's say it's completely independent of that. >> Yes. You wanted to do something like this, right? And then >> but but not on Well, yeah, you could do it on to Kfax, but I'm saying on to Lakeside also.
>> Yeah, but Kax might be difficult. Are they both county road? >> County road. >> Yeah. >> How about that? How about that side? >> Will you have parking on both sides of that street further down? >> And I'm not saying the county won't
agree with that because the county is looking to to uh slow down traffic on all those streets. So, you know, maybe making that tighter radius there might help. I don't I can't speak for the county, but just keep in mind that's not nobody's decision here. That's going to be a county decision,
>> right? But that I mean I think just even for safety sake that's a >> that is a fast >> absolutely >> but it's not as wide either as you got your line right the line is going to stop probably where the writing is. >> Is that correct? >> Well this is the parking stall right
here the depth of the parking stall the first one. So I mean if you lined it up with that >> Oh l it just sweep that curve. >> I I mean I'm not against that idea. It does bring more space to the front of it. It's not really costing you guys a lot of money. It's not it's not doing
anything except giving us a better appeal on the front. >> It's just the county. >> That's what I'm saying. >> No, it does. It does greatly impact us when >> because I spent 18 months for John Sukini trying to get a county approval on something. >> Oh, well that's
that's a huge difference. >> I just you're not you're not going to gain a lot of space. I don't think you're getting the benefit for the delay and the banging here. I get the argument. I get the idea.
>> But, you know, we're going to be living with this and it changes the whole dynamic of that area. It's a nice open area right now. >> Keep in mind say no. >> Yeah. >> You wasted 18 months for nothing. >> But how about for Lakeside? Is there something we can do with the lakeside
portion of that? We didn't >> side meeting where >> like at from the other area here >> just yeah I don't know we can bump out that >> street width >> here it's not >> 30 ft
>> no so they took when they built the other side they did the bumpouts that he's talking about they took the property that they had to make the bump out it wasn't our property >> it we took it from Yes we did took it from lakeside go ahead >> I I not to look in the gift fixate on
this. It's just more information. >> Well, here's something you guys will do to it. You could chop off some of the retail on that triangle and make it open space and have a smaller retail on the corner. >> I mean, the problem is then that
permeates all the way up to the building. >> Yeah. They're not going to cut the upper floor. You're just going to have this overhang. >> Yeah. You'd have >> outdoor space. >> Yeah. There's that's also that would also chop off part where the uh unit >> where on the bottom >> on the first floor to the call unit.
Isn't that a first unit? >> Yeah, but look how close look how close the unit gets to the floor. >> You really wouldn't get anything unless you took out the the housing unit as well. >> Yeah. You know, the space is what the space is and that's that's what it's
always been. If nothing is done and they don't do a project, space exactly the same way it is right now, but it's not changing >> or we go forward with what we already have approved. >> Remember, we're we're here for two changes to reduce the height. >> Okay. >> So, that's that's what we're here is to
make the project smaller. >> But but no, but they don't have approval because that height is not approved. They need a variance, a Dvarian. So, no, it's not approved in that they could they can't go to plan board with it because >> it's approved by this body is what I meant.
>> Approved, but there's nothing signed. You want something different and there's no redevelopment plan that will allow it to go forward. You're not bound by anything. I want this thing to go forward. Don't get me wrong, but don't believe that you're bound by when they said it's approved. They need something and they cannot go unless they get a
hype the hype changed and plans changes to the redevelopment plan. So, >> and I think they came back to us. They heard your board, they heard the council, and they heard that the project was too big, it was too high, it was too many units, and it was squished into a
small package. So, I think they did the best they can, and I think it's not bad in reducing the height, reducing the units, and still going forward with what they want. Um, you know, at the end of the day, if nothing happens on that corner, we're stuck with what we're looking at right now for for time.
That's what stays. It's not going to like it. She walk away. Everything gets built new there. It's just going to be looking junky there. >> I guess it looks >> Anyone else have any questions um for the for the article?
>> Anyone? >> Um any questions? No questions. And is there anything else you would want to propose to reduce the >> I don't think I >> it's the it's really for me it's a
fundamental question on like the overall concept that that and and you know it I'm certainly wrestling with it and struggling with it right and it's uh >> yeah I I' I've been struggling with it. I mean as you know I I've been you know that I've been struggling but you're
probably oh no she's the chair. >> Not at all. Anyway, um I am struggling with it too just because it's not um it it's just so large and and there's if there's any way to step it back or >> Well, they did though. Is that what they >> that they did they did chop down and
that's that's a big >> So, the next step for them is say for some reason it doesn't pass here. They take what they have and they go to the council for the next step of the old building >> and say the council approves that, >> right? >> Then you're getting a higher building, >> right? So, this is so that's that's
There's no sign I don't want to punish them for coming back with those more of what we want. We signed it. I'm >> pretty sure. Yeah, >> the new agreement. I think they voted to approve but >> not executed.
>> Yeah, I don't think we ever executed. >> But anyway, >> yeah, >> I think we're trying to work something out here. Let's do this. >> So, the next step is the council if he stays with the initial private, right? >> No, I don't I don't think that this board signed a redevelopment agreement allowing them to move. I think they did. >> I think that they
>> Why would they not be oblig So if they passed a resolution authorizing the execution just because we haven't that still binding. We'd have to sign it >> authorizing not mandating. Big difference. >> Yeah. >> But I I I think let's go forward here. Let's not let's not have an argument
that we don't need that. You need to have >> I'm going to reach out to our executive. What do you how do you you know you're new to the scene too. What do you feel about >> Well, I mean reducing the height is significant. the units have dropped. They've given a lot of what was asked
and I understand the feel issue, but I don't know how you get around that on the corner. >> I mean, again, you kind of agree with Kenny. You're you're punishing them for trying to bring them more in line with what we originally asked for. >> I have a question. I don't know if you
bring up the owner or not. >> No, unless Yeah, I mean, you can >> I ask you guys, you could ask it. Uh, I see that the front uh salon is moved into the second area. Does that mean they're going to stay and take over that
whole area or they did all this work to move into the second space and not knowing to come back? >> We don't know yet on that part, but they're going to take in the new building. That part we don't know yet how much they want, how many square feet. The ice
cream station was just sold again. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Now, I don't know how long that's going to last. I lost so far. Hans has been moved out 2 years. I can't rent that spot. Now, I just had the uh the clothing store just closed up because
she couldn't afford to stay there. Okay. So, I'm losing retail spots like crazy on this piece of property. I'll I'll say this and not agree with them, but >> if if I mean you could make them more uh
reasonable for the retail to come in too. Maybe >> there are I have no reasonable risk, >> right? Not I'm not saying cost. I'm just saying lookwise. You know, there's some people probably are saying, I don't know what's going on with that redevelopment. So, I'm staying away from that till I know what's going on cuz obviously anything that's going to be put in there and I would be doing the same thing.
Obviously, this square footage is going to go up because you're building a new building and maybe some people can't afford that. >> So, that's just >> Well, there's also the there's going to be a lot of downtime for whoever is in here. So, it's hard to rent a space that they know is going to be gone for two a
year and a half to two years while it gets redone. >> It's just a tough place to be in. >> Yeah. And I think what the board has to look at is, and I go go back to what Matt is saying, the future of what we're looking for for our downtown, right? We want to keep the retail. That's the most
important thing, at least to me, is to keep the retail. And if we can put apartments on that to offset to keep the retail going and keep the small feel of our town, which is very important to me also, it's a combination of everything. But sitting the way we're sitting now and going another 10 years the way we're
sitting right now is not the answer. Right? Keeping those five buildings the way they look now for another 10 years, especially if the ice station is was to disappear would be an ugly corner. I'm not I'm not going to lie, it would be an ugly corner. Um, I can tell you that the building that they built across the
street, Lakeside Common, a lot of noise about that, a lot of screaming and yelling. We have no concerns, no complaints, no problems. We were rarely over there for anything. National company does a good job of doing what they have to do. Uh, the only issue we had there was the pet thing, which is
our fault for not thinking of that earlier, and they're walking their animals at the high school, and that was our mistake. I don't blame the builders for that. M. >> So, I mean, that's the way I'm looking at it. Now, it reaches a point that development will stop. And I can tell you where that's going to come from is from the MUA. The MUA is at a number
right now where there's not much more building can go on this town unless they address concerns at MUA level. Um, so we're almost at capacity. There's maybe 60 more spots that can fit in this town. >> So, I guess that's my other question, right? And this is a question for this
board. Do you go to four stories at a location knowing that you really don't have sewer capacity to go up anywhere else and you're really only going to be able to build in exact height and footprint of what you have or you go shorter on
current buildings so that you get more consistently to three stories. >> Well, I can tell you the MUA stand there is no there's no hierarchy first come first serve to the MUA. Someone comes in tomorrow and wants to build, you know, 12 stories and 200 apartments.
>> I'm sure the MA is going to say we can do up to 60 or 70. And then you're going to have to come up with a plan for a new plant to figure out all this. >> The other problem is that it comes down to a balance between how much it costs them to to redo the building versus what
they're going to get as a payment out of it. And there's that fine line between two stories and four stories that and the number of apartment units before it becomes not feasible for them to even do anything with the building. So >> that four seems to be about the magic
number that we're hearing with with most of these projects. >> Mhm. >> You know, but I got a push. >> No, I'm not saying I'll use the project that we just approved >> the gas station which we'll call the sewer project. That's an ugly sitting in
gas station for how many years? 20 years. >> It's gonna it's going to be some apartments there with no retail, but it's better than what's sitting there now, right? It's going people are going to drive through the town and see that and say, "Well, that's much nicer than that junk that was sitting there before. And we're going to get 20 apartments.
We'll make some money as a town. We'll get some pilot out of that." Um, and that's not why we're doing this, by the way. It's not about the pilot only. It's about redeveloping our downtown >> to make it usable for future people coming to town. People want to come here because they see our downtown and and
that's a huge part of the retail. The retail is, you know, we can't dismiss how much these builders want to be downtown because we have a great downtown. >> Well, I I just have to wonder like when I driving through like Thor Park and things like that, I see three stories. I don't see four stories unless I go to
Pompton to go to Panaku, it's three stories. >> No. No. Most most like, you know, Riverdale's is building 600 units. Uh Bloomingdale is building 600. I mean, Riverdale, the you know, the the one that, you know, near us, the Hamburg turnpike is two.
>> That's four stories. That's four stories. >> No, no, no. The little strip mall. >> The strip mall is the retail. And there's the there's three on top. >> The the one by the thing is Yeah. >> two stories. >> They're all
>> You guys construction cost and tariffs. three stories cuz every once you do the foundation, >> every story above it is incrementally less expensive. >> Okay. >> You know, and and you can't go more than four over parking anyway. So, we went in
at that originally. And you'll recall we also had two levels of parking. >> You did. >> And that's where we had and that's so our sacrifice here to get the lower level even though we took away 10 units. >> We got rid of the one parking. So, we put more units on the ground floor, but >> our market unit. So you may see we lost
10 units, but we really lost like 16 17 units when you count the number of CO units we had to add back >> cuz we were only originally going to be required to have something like four or five and now how many we have? >> 10. 10. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> And that's dictated by the ratio. >> That's dictated because we're now in a
fourth round. When we started this, we were in the third round. That allowed and what that provided was 10% 7% actual units, 3% you can buy down 90 90,000 per year. So we we when we went to the fourth round, you know, there's a magistrate and judge that we deal with
about this and they came to us and said, "You are starting at this level this time. You're not getting that deal anymore. You got away with a good deal." Then we're going here and only up from there. >> So So our so our fourth round housing plan shows this building, this this lot.
>> This is included >> as four units and four bonus, >> right? >> No. And they have to meet the requirement of the new of the new obligation, the one that we just passed. >> No, no, no. I I what Mr. Brewer is right. I cuz I looked at your housing
element fairship plan. You included this property. >> We did include it. Yes. Correct. >> But you but you have to follow you're not on the uh three cuz three is over. >> Correct. No, what I'm saying is you it's not just following the 20% like you actually use these units. You need these
units. That's correct. >> 10. I thought it was four. When I read it, it was four units. >> Oh, no. I thought >> No, no. I understand it. I'm saying what we're required in our plan to meet is four and four.
>> Four units and four books. >> We're exceeding our plan, right? >> But that was But that is because that's >> what Sorry. >> They were paying for it. >> No, no, no, no. He's talking about the fourth round. What that the reason for that is cuz your current redevelopment plan cannot contemplate. That's where we
have to amend the redevelopment plan. >> Correct. But but if you only were approving if you only providing eight units, >> right? Eight affordable COA units, you would meet our plan. >> But they would >> because that's what our plan shows.
>> If you had less units, >> No, you would just be minus and then we'd have to make up two. >> No, no, no. He's >> If our plan shows eight units and they're providing 10, >> we're plus two. >> Plus two, >> right? If we reduced the number of units and meet the ratio, they were only
providing eight units, they would still be compliant with our housing plan that show that has eight >> allocated. I don't know. >> That may be true, but it wouldn't be buildable. >> So you would >> I'm just trying to understand you'd be shorting two units for the >> right. So you're saying we would take
off two? >> Well, because for every two units that come out, >> you have to take out another eight market units. Come on. Ju just so that it's out there so it's understood that if you were to lessen if you were to lessen the number
of units overall on this project, not talking about financials, just talking about affordable housing, you could still meet our affordable housing requirement. >> Sure. Just so >> right. But then it becomes going what Ken said a buildable buildable and unbuildable >> and
>> and it becomes a function of what pilot looks like >> and and we're not partying to that negotiation. >> I'm going to say this when these small and I call this a smaller project. The pilot is nice and it brings in some money and it's good but you know it's not it's not changing our tax ratio hugely but these small projects a
meridian project is making changes. It could be tax point difference for residents. This helps. No question. You all know our healthcare alone went up um >> half a million dollars or >> $500,000. Our our $200 tax increase for
each resident of $26. 200 of it is because of health retirement. >> So it's $6 is the increase that we're putting out. The other 200 state and there's nothing we can do about that. And those numbers are going to keep growing. >> What benefits do you guys have? So
speaking solely for myself, >> Steve, >> if we could get the overhang canal lever at Wanq and Kofax that we talked about, right, to increase the sidewalk width to there to let's say a minimum of 10 ft.
>> Let's assuming it's f right, if we can get that to 10 ft. >> Mhm. if we could investigate modifying the radius of the street and I'll go to the county planning board with you and argue for it. Modify the
radius to get a curve bump out if feasible on those two lots to increase the the pedestrian area on that corner. And if we could investigate pushing back to can further can lever
that two poring units, we'll call it the COA unit and retail space 5. >> Okay. >> To get at least a 10ft sidewalk or or more sidewalk. I I'll say as maximize the sidewalk we can get there.
>> I think I can support this. >> Okay. I I and I I I can respectfully tell you I cannot agree to anything that is going to require us to go to the planning board of the county. Not because I don't think we'd be approved, but because your mayor can chair this county planning board more than all the
other 20 in the state. That will add a year and a half to our project. And I I just can't. It's as infant, you know, as small as the project. It's not about the money, it's about the time. This planning board will take a year and a half for us to get to. >> But is is um wait, what's the street? Um
is Lakeside County? >> No. >> So, can can you do can you investigate doing a bumpout only on Lakeside the way that it is across the street and not even not even impact KFax? >> We can certainly investigate any of that, but if anything Yeah. If anything
requires us to go to the county, then I just can't. >> Doesn't the project Isn't it required to go to the county anyway because it's on a county road? Yeah, but we're not going to need approvals for improvements on the road, which is what caused the delay in the other project >> because I I've run into this in another
town where they requested the radius actually be made larger, >> which is what we have here. So, >> yeah, maybe they will. Yeah, they may tell you to make it smaller. They could ask for things like that. >> And I understand why you're saying it. I
mean, it makes sense. I mean, it is a a busy intersection and we could slow that down. >> Slow it down and and should we be addressing? >> But I agree completely with what Steve is saying and it's just unfortunate. Our county the way it sits makes it very difficult to get anything approved through them. I know many and not just
with him other builders on on Hamburg turnpike have said I'm going to keep what I have cuz I'm not going back to the county because that could take another year and a half to figure out how to just put a bush in front of my business. So they don't even want to deal with it. It's just unfortunate. It's just the way it is.
I honestly think that they're going to have comments on it on on the project without without requesting additional things. We'd like to do this or that. I think they're going to have their own comments. They they very well may, but I've had success, you know, I I've had
success with them when it's just a comments like that rather than, hey, we're going to realign your road, you know, from and then it just gets into >> I can't tell you what poor John. >> So, but you think it's already 10 ft.
>> Well, that's I'm I'm interested in that. >> It's not on the corner and we agreed to at the quarter do that. That's fine. >> So, but I if I'm understand what everybody's telling me, it's 10 ft now from the new building to the street. >> No, at least on the coach side
>> approximately. >> Approximately. Yeah. >> What's that mean? >> That means it could be 10, it could be nine, it could be >> Yeah. 10 to me. I'm just going to say this because we brought a lot of problems down. >> We don't have a but they're going to I think that you're
going to look into making some of these changes. the ability to do it. I imagine between now and then you can look into giving the exact width of that sidewalk for the next meeting and the garbage thing that which will not slow me down looking at the agreement because that is
just going to have the attached stuff whatever's approved that's not going to slow it down. So I would say if you can list the things that they some you're going to have to do with the garbage some you're going to have to measure the sidewalk. So unfortunately have to be here for the next meeting. Well, that's
that's it's not a delay thing. That's now, you know, we've been before this body probably 10 times on this project for, you know, 47 units. The I understand it's not a delay, but what it is now is Bill paying three professionals to come back another night when I think we could just make them all conditions of approval for your
resolution. >> Well, there's a lot of conditions because, you know, I have four. >> No, what we've discussed, we haven't talked about parking, right, which we have to still discuss and has to be voted on by on the council. the east. >> Oh, no. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> No. I mean, those are things that are part of this project. >> Yeah. Yeah. Not this this this vote is
this vote is limited. >> So, the conditions that I wrote down is the corner that we talked about. Uh if we're going to allow employees, which I don't think we are, we're going to have to add a secure door. We're going to figure out the trash and recycling. Either pull it back in that corner or
have to propose a space for a dumpster. There'll be no pets. The signage will have gooseeneck lighting. Yogesh is going to look at the Cornish on the top. See if that's illegally over the property line and planters along the
perimeter of the courtyard. That's what I have. Was I missing any? >> Um the >> No, but I don't see this as a planning board thing where you where they're going to approve it subject to conditions. I see those things being
satisfied and they see exactly what they're going to vote yes on and approve at the next meeting or whatever. I this isn't a planning board thing where subject to conditions. I don't see it as that. I don't think the board has to either. They can see the final thing what it's going to look like everything
with the measurements whether they can do the sidewalk respond. Bring one professional. They don't need everybody. Um and I don't think that they would need everybody especially if there's some consultation beforehand. But that's my recommendation. You can do what you want and if he convinces you otherwise, you can. >> No, I I I
>> Well, I will and I I I see where this is going, but I just for the I agree with you that that the board can do that, but I also don't see why the board could not do it either as conditions in a resolution or subject to the engineer satisfaction. Um >> I don't think they're ready to vote
tonight on anything, but they can decide. >> What? I I'm going to go with um with Andy's recommendation and let make sure that but I don't know if we have everything. Um I know I'm just telling you.
>> Yeah, I like that. I think you're going to put it in the public and I know you have to do it and then maybe you want to go down either store on either side and just get a feeling of how each person feels >> on general. Okay. And then you do a vote or whatever you want to do. >> Okay. So, um
>> but talk to Andy about the opening to >> opening to the public. You got your >> Okay. So, the um is there anyone in the public would would who would like to be heard? Seeing no one in the public that would like to be heard, then then we'll um we'll start down with Ken. Is that okay,
Ken? You have some >> um what are your thoughts? You've given us a few already. Yeah, I I mean I would be okay with um going the way that you're saying, which is to just say these things need to be taken care
of and and assuming that you do that, then it's a go. So, I'm I'm okay with going that way. >> Okay. So, so right now we have um Okay, I I'll just continue. >> I would agree with the mayor that this looks better than what we have currently
and most definitely >> if we don't build they'll just build elsewhere and we are stuck with what we have which is our aging buildings >> that are crumbling that don't look as nice. I I think this is a beautiful building and I I appreciate that they
lowered it an entire floor to accommodate our ask and increase um the retail. So I think we can find open space elsewhere in downtown. There's some there's some properties that I know that can't be built on or very difficult
to build on that we were looking at at one point. >> Okay. >> So, um I'm I'm okay with moving forward as well, but I also understand there are new board members, so there might be a need to review a little bit more, ask some questions. So, >> and I I think we're also we have um
conditions and and that you know Andy said that you know proposed that we should maybe ha have them u come back after the conditions are met. I >> understand that. and then we uh bring one professional and we will then um be satisfied in that in that regard. >> I'm with I'm with Ken.
>> Okay. Thank you. >> So, right, my concerns I I I laid them out. Um I I think we absolutely need to have a 10ft sidewalk consistently around development. I think that is
for me that would be a condition of the approval. Um, you know, I would also recommend that if we're going to make a recommendation to modify the redevelopment plan, we could consider
instead of modifying it to approve 5 ft and five stories and 57 ft, maybe we look at it differently and we change plans that it's measured from Wanq. >> Yeah. and it's shown as four stories and
>> it's just a big mental change for people to say they're putting in a five-story building versus they're putting in a four >> certainly when I open up the redevelopment plan to amend it I am without a doubt going to have to address where we're measuring from. So it'll either say
x stories and feet from wanq and not even talk about from the pond hole >> or give two separate dimensions um or or something like for sure the height is not just going to say
>> um five stories because that's how it looks from the pond hole because that's that will um alarm people and that's not really what the experience parents will be looking down the street. >> Correct. Right. >> Yeah. >> And that goes back to the big project when it was presented. They were saying
it was only seven stories above, but it was seven stories below also. So depending how you looked at it, it was 14 stories depending on like how you approached it. >> So I believe it or not, I I'll compare with
these two board members. If we can put those conditions in, I don't feel the need that they would have to come back. If we can get it if if we can get it firm that we're going to be able to to maintain the 10 foot. I would like a condition that I would ask a condition
be added that they investigate the uh the bump out. I will say only on Lakeside. And I think you're truly going to be able to add two parking spaces further up Lakeside because you now know you don't have the driveway for the ice cream station. I think you're going to
be able to offset two of the ponhole spots with two on street spots. And I think that's going to >> so if they if you ask them to do that then they don't come back >> if they can get I think if so I would say that we ask them to consider that
and that and that >> they would have to work with our engineer and demonstrate that it can or it can't be done to our engineer satisfaction. >> Correct. >> I don't think that if it has to go to the county and it's going to be an 18-month process that we should require that. >> Okay.
>> It wouldn't leak site. I think we're good. >> Yeah, that's if that doesn't trigger that nightmare for you, I'm okay with that. >> I understand the >> So, what I'm trying to understand and and I I think I like it. What you're saying is you're saying there's enough space in the driveway of the ice cream
station to bump out. >> So, do we have >> I don't know. >> I got a sketch. Do you have Can we Can we bring our Google Maps? Can we >> bottom line is if you if you make that radius at the street a tighter radius that it it kind of pushes
>> gives you more space on the street on lakeside >> on the our on this building side to possibly squeeze in some parking >> and it shortens the crossing distance. It >> Listen, it's something that we'll be looking at in all of our safety programs. So
>> agreed. >> Um >> Steve, I'm going to ask you to list these all these conditions. Absolutely. >> It looks like you're winning. >> Yeah. So, if you like drop a pin and like just go opposite and then look
down the street, but you basically do exactly what we have on that side mirrored already. We already have the on street parking down there. >> So, we just bump it out a little bit. You're saying to continue the park? >> Probably continue the parking past where
the ice station's current driveway is. >> Right. Right. And bump it out a little bit. >> You re redo the radius at the corner, you might be able to get those a couple extra parking spots. >> Design or any touching of that radius though is going to need county approval even if it's on lakeside.
>> Well, that's why that whole >> the whole radius. So >> that's why I commented about that not causing an 18month delay. All right. Well, we're just going to investigate and then you'll get back to to our stomachs.
>> Yeah, I would that that's true. I would add also that that they investigate >> uh to the satisfaction of our engineer about the feasibility storm water retention under the building. >> That's not >> uh >> and we'll and we'll know that this is
done because of your communication with our professionals. >> That's the way we go. We're not going to vote to approve the actual redevelopment agreement until all these conditions have been satisfied by either Sam or your >> and we and we will vote if if it goes the way that these three gentlemen have
described. We'll vote without them here. >> Well, yeah. What they're what they're looking for is tonight to lock in what they presented with conditions. >> Okay. With conditions. that does not designate him as the redeveloper because that will depend on those conditions being satisfied by >> she will decide that those conditions
have been satisfied. Okay. >> Okay. >> And then she'll give us a report back and we would >> prior to you voting >> our recommendation we would concur that they have been satisfied and we vote on them. >> Yeah. Because until you vote on that redevelopment agreement nothing is good. They can't do anything. >> Okay. So we also want to make sure that
we don't forget about the garbage. Did we put that in there? >> Recycling. I'm gonna after you're done, I'll go through my list and you can fill in the gaps. >> Can we also ask we got renderings? >> You can ask. >> We got renderings. Well, we're I I want
to ask we got renderings from the wanq direction with the current configuration. When we clip that corner hopefully without a column, we get a revised rendering. And then I think we also want a rendering at this corner.
This is this is a huge opportunity for us because it's two major corners in town, right? So, I think we want to see a rendering >> um from I guess diagonally cross looking at this corner >> the what it's going to look like on the
KFax. >> Does anybody know what what the process was with Lakeside Commons? Was it difficult for that? >> Yes, it was. >> Oh, it was >> Well, it took a while for the phone, >> but that's very different. It is >> discussion because that was our property. It was their property
>> and and listen maybe that maybe the answer is >> you guys draw it up, show it on a plan. >> You get a credit from the town as your two or three additional parking spaces to be completed. Maybe it just goes in
with striping for now and the town puts it in our back pocket as a future streetscape improvement. But I think the engineer is correct in that at Ry's turn, the county, even though they're not going to say they own their road, they're going to be very concerned about anything we do right on that turn.
And they're going to be want to say, >> but maybe this project starts with p with pavement markets. >> Yeah. Well, >> and then we county also is going to perceive it a lot differently if the town is asking to do it as a town project. >> No. >> Developers. >> We tried that >> as a developer.
>> You almost made it worse. >> Oh, really? Oh gosh. figures. >> Okay. Um Mark, >> yes, I agree with um the other three gentlemen down there as well. >> Okay. So, with the with the conditions, >> yeah, we have to move forward with the conditions >> and Jason, how your books
>> um I agree with the conditions. Um I also agree with one of the statements you made where the fourth story I I feel still doesn't fit in our landscape. Um I don't know where the sol is for that
because obviously that changes your the revenue of the project uh and I also agree with uh Matt regarding you know that the the feel of I mean you could see right from the picture there
how much of that ice cream station air corner is is open space. Yeah. Right. >> Um or perceived as open space. Right. So, >> it does change it. >> Yeah, it does.
Um, >> outside of that, I I do agree and I would almost prefer to to have them come back than just list the conditions, but if everybody else is going the other way, I'm okay to concede that.
>> Yeah. Well, we have four to two at this point. I mean on a you know >> I I I think I follow this or not. Yeah. So >> what are your thoughts? >> You know my Yeah. I do um my stance is I think what council said but it's a it's a blend of how we want to do our
downtown. Right. This is not let's just build up. We're not becoming Morristown. We're not becoming Jersey City. But at the same time, >> nothing against the people that are sitting here. We want to update what we have in our downtown. It doesn't look so good. The longer it sits, the worse it's going to look. There's no question of that. It's not like they're going to
pump in a lot of money to make it look better. Okay. So, for some reason this project on their end or on our end, they walk away from it. We're going to be stuck with that. And if someone walks away from the ice cream station and doesn't want to open an ice cream station there anymore, we're going to have an empty building sitting in that open space, which is even going to look
worse. >> Um, so, you know, it's a hidden trait, but I I agree with what everybody's saying. >> If they can do it conditionally through the engineering and through the planner, I'm okay with that. Mhm. >> Uh at the same time, I don't think they're here to fight us on anything. So I think if we make some good
suggestions, they will look into it. So at least try that. >> Okay. So So you're concurring with >> Yeah, I think I Okay. So um so then do you want to go through the list of conditions and everybody >> go slowly? >> Yes. Go slowly, please, cuz I'm going to >> So, before we get to the conditions, the
request is to approve the project as presented tonight and revised subject to the conditions we're going to go through and to authorize Mr. Brewer and I to negotiate a redevelopment agreement that upon satisfaction of those agreements or
those conditions will be approved at a subsequent meeting. >> Okay, >> those are the two asks. Okay. >> And that redevelopment agreement will include recommendations to the council to amend the redevelopment plan to adopt a financial agreement of which I will provide Mr. uh Dominic and Mr. Burward
the performance and to recommend the easement to the pile. The conditions that I have written down is that we will modify the corner at the intersection of Wanuku and Kfax to make it a curb on the
street level to ensure 10T uh at that intersection radius. that we will have 10- foot sidewalks from curb to building, not to property line, but to building around that we will that in the event that we are
going to allow non-residents access, which I don't think we are, we will add a secure door to all entrances to the building. >> Hold on. >> All right. that we will either revise the lower level so that there is room for a dumpster on our property or we
will revise our proposal to request an additional space in the pond hole for placement of a dumpster which would also be in the easement area. that the building will be pet free or that a pet relief area will be
provided. That the signage will have no backlights, but goose neck lighting is permitted. that we will edit the rooftop plan to remove any overhang into the right of way if we conclude that we're not
permitted to do so or that will demonstrate to you that we can do it. We will install two feet of planters along the perimeter of the courtyard. That we will update the architectural renderings to show the new conditions at
the angles that have been requested and that we will from an engineering perspective review issues and demonstrate to your engineer satisfaction whether we can or cannot. Number one, install underground storm water uh facilities for management uh
operations or install any parking along Lakeside com Lakeside Avenue on our side of the street without requiring county approval. Believe that identifies all of the issues. So the one thing you said I just
want to verify that what you said maybe you said 10 foot sidewalk around the whole perimeter of the building or just >> the street sides street side street size sides >> no but on the lakeside do you have 10 ft there? >> That's what I I mean Bob you can correct
me but I believe we have with the two foot that we're adding we have 10 ft right >> correct on the lakeside side I know you have patch but on the lake side you have >> on the lake side right Bob. >> Yes. >> Okay. And then um what about the um super? Were we going to have a super or >> Yeah. Or something to
>> I should discuss that. >> Okay. So the we were talking about having someone live there or at least have somebody there during office hours or or what have you. We can we would we would agree to modify the community or to incorporate into the community center
an area for management a management office or station or desk or something so that there's a location when management's on site to to do lease ups or meet with residents. >> Do you want there to be management on site or a place for management on site? >> I think we want management on site um
>> at all times. >> No. >> Um the building's way too small. They're going to be >> it doesn't have to be all times, but like at a at a specific you'd be there like 9 to5 or something. >> No, I think that's >> it's only 47 minutes. Not
>> so what time would you have? >> They need to know what they're agreeing to. >> Yeah. So, what time >> I I I'm agreeing to have the area there for when they're there, >> but I mean, I do management contracts that are portfolios for, you know, multiple buildings and depending on the unit, sometimes they're guaranteed to be
there 10 hours a week and they have office hours and people know when they're there. >> But the mayor has has has identified that there are some issues. This is not this is yours to approve. So if you believe they're necessary for some office hours, you can make that.
>> I'm going to suggest that we say, and we're not telling you when, but a minimum of 15 hours a week at their discretion of how, but that would have to be publicized to the resident so they know >> I can go on Tuesday at 4:00 and talk to them about concern I have in the basement, right?
>> Some either they're going to fix it. I don't know if this management is is hands-on kind of fixing or they're going to go hire people to do that. And at the same time they could also lease apartments. If an apartment becomes available they become leasing agent also I think be part of that. >> So Andy my only concern with that is how
is that enforced after the redevelopment agreement receives. >> Yeah. It's be a conditional planning board approval >> and we did that with the other. If >> you don't do it then you're going to be in violation of your planning board. >> It was in the agreement. What was >> minimum hours? >> Not minimum hours. It was full time.
Yeah. It' be plenty more plenty more approval >> on the operations >> like hours of operation. You have to do it. >> The hours telling >> if you if you consent to it if this is a condition it's conditional redevelopment agreement and that you're going to consent to 15 hours or 12 or 28 or
whatever it is the number you're if you're agreeing to that condition that's conditional to approval on the planning board. >> Yeah. I just I'm I'm troubled just because things change. I mean things are going so much digital. I mean, 20 years from now, we could be looking at a condition that like nobody has. >> Yeah, I understand that. And maybe Andy,
>> we could revisit amended planning more approval. >> Yeah, I know. >> They'll make I I I'll tell you this. I think it's going to carry some weight with the council. The council is going to say, I like the idea that there's someone on there to be responsive. When we first opened Lakeside Common, there was not someone there initially and we
had some issues and then they brought in a management team and it stayed and everything went fine. I I also think a lot of the issues that the mayor's speaking of wouldn't go away with the digital age. >> No. >> So that's not going to change over time.
>> I agree with something maybe 15 to 20 hours a week, but it should be off hours, not during 9 to5 because people aren't home, >> right? >> Yeah. >> And if if most of this building is residential, they need to be able to get to them. So maybe like a a 4 to something 4 pm on
>> or v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v various hours but that are posted make make sure they're posted. >> Yeah, I I understand your point, but >> it's hard. >> I'm not familiar with management companies who do it off hours. >> If I need a plumber, I take off. Okay. >> Well, post the hours.
>> Yeah. >> Is that okay? Do you post the hours just so they know or >> we should when the hours are? That should be there on them. I don't think we should try to say >> I said this is a condition. So in between now and then you like 15 hours.
They'll come up with details that'll make us happy. >> Okay. >> Uh in between now. >> Well, I'm going to say this. Do we need to know? I I mean we're saying 15. Say we say 15 hours. It's up to them to decide on 15 hours. >> Okay. >> Are we making We're not saying that we want times on these certain days. We are. I don't know.
>> Hard. I need to revisit the the uh sidewalk issue because I was just reminded and we did mention it before. Wanukq has to stay 8 ft because that's in line with all the other buildings there. So it's 10 ft on Kofax and lakeside, 8 ft on one feet. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So what what drives it having to
be in line? >> You mean because of their foundations? >> No, that's you're just going to have a two foot >> street wall. The street wall. >> Street wall. You're familiar with the same line going down the whole street.
>> But can you but you're saying but we're saying maybe you could just >> maybe that line needs to be cut two feet. >> Yeah. But then all the things they have to change that as they come in they change. >> Yeah. But that's never going to happen. >> But but what does it matter if if we have like that that corner area 2T wider?
>> The corner we're fine with. It's >> it's all part I mean like does it is that going to be an opt? >> I think it's going to look funny. >> You think so? You think it's it would look funny? I think that if you were going to I think that two feet will look funny. I think that it either needs to align or
you need to have a significant setback with the plaza or something like that. And we're not going to get a significant setback with the plaza. So >> So I think that >> so where's the alternative best option is >> 10 years on coldex.
>> So can we just do a continuous taper like over the length of the building from >> Oh yeah. meeting at that alley 210 ft. >> Where does the chamfer start on the corner? >> So it would be like flare. It would be
like a >> a variable setback. >> So you're saying like then we were shaving we're shaving some square feet off of the coffee shop. Is that is that what we're >> Well, that's what we have to do on the corner. got to give on that corner >> and then and then we're going to do that
that ang that set back on the so that we're starting to take a lot of square footage away right um how much we would be taking like 100 or square feet we already got an odd angle there with the retail if you start making them
>> increase that angle I think it's >> so how how much are we stepping back that that that corner area like the >> we're just cutting the corner Yeah, cutting the corner. Are we going too? >> I'm not sure at this point, but yeah, a couple of feet would champ that. But I I I do agree. I mean, I I think most urban
downtown environments, you want to hold that line. You know, there's a storefront line. >> Well, you do something back 2 feet would wouldn't make sense or even try to do a skewed angle cuz everything else along Monu is is you know, >> okay. And so then and then but lakeside
is 10 feet and we are going to take that uh you you said I think an arc or an arched but it's going to be more of a corner. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> CH
>> it's just like chopping off the corner. >> Yeah. Just right. It's not going to be rounded. It's just going to be chopped. >> Yeah. >> And so there >> which I think is a great improvement. >> Yeah. You know what? Like the the old building does have um something like that. You look at their entrance way.
>> Okay. All right. So, are you okay? >> So, I >> I mean that's a very No, it's just it what the chamfer is and how that lays out is a very that's a very like there there's going to be some nuance to that, right? So
that >> it would certainly be subject to they're going to have to give us the what they're proposing and we're going to have to >> Well, our proposal was when we started talking about it, it came up because we were showing 8ft sidewalks at the time >> until you got to that corner and then it
was narrowed and that's how the issue came up. What we're saying is we will increase that from the curb line to where the buildings to be 10 ft. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Got and whatever that ends up being to make that happen. >> Okay.
>> Q is a county road as well. >> One Q's county as well. >> And just so I understand and we're all on the same page, the engineers are going to and the planners are going to field all the back and forth kind of stuff and then it's going to go to the board for final resolution that you've
solved all these issues. >> But they're also going to be those those uh plans will be changed by then. These will be indicated. you'll have them when you're voting on them because they will have had to be satisfied >> and which means they'll have seen something that they're happy with and that whatever that they're happy with
will be part of because it has to be attached to redevelopment agreement anyway >> all that on paper >> they just won't have it they don't there won't be a need for anybody to show up it'll be done beforehand >> okay and so and then as far as access for retail to pon hole you have to walk
around to get to >> yeah that's an unfortunate I think because of the height difference There's really that much you can do there. >> Okay. >> I think you're going to complicate if you try to bring it inside. >> Yeah. >> And then also to enter the um private um you know the >> he said that if they have it if there's
access to other than residential they're going to have to add a door. >> There's already five entry only. >> Okay. There's already five entry only. And so do you want to put that will there be access? Um >> I think he mentioned mentioned. >> Okay. Good. The one thing that didn't come up is the uh uh parking entrance
and exit. What is What is that? Is it a gate? Is it a fence? Is it >> garage door? >> Garage overhead >> that everyone follow. >> And is there any security gates on the windows of of the um of the retail? I mean, you don't have any.
>> No. Okay. >> I'm not proposing any right now. >> Okay. Okay. And we have no backlights. Okay. Snap. I think we have everything. Anybody else? Okay, I think we're good. Okay, >> you amend.
>> They are making a motion. >> Okay, so yes, >> including amended what we decide with the garbage. >> Got it. >> Okay, so who would um >> it' be a motion to approve essentially the plans
>> uh which will be uh amended uh subject to the give and take with the with the planner and the engineer. um to their satisfaction. If so, they will be amended. They will be attached to a redevelopment agreement that is going to be negotiated in between now and the
next time we're able to meet. Once that's done, that'll be on the agenda. >> Okay. All right. You might have to help me with that. Um >> what you said, >> I'll say what he said. a resolution a resolution approving the plan subject to the conditions that were set forth on
the record and allowing the um negotiation of a redevelopment agreement to be presented to um the agency at the next meeting to be voted upon. >> All right. So, do um do you want who wants to make that motion? >> I will. >> Okay. Oh, wow. Go ahead. >> I make that motion.
>> OKAY. >> OKAY. Anyone like to second that? Um. Oh, thank you. Okay. And uh >> sorry, was I >> okay? >> All in favor? >> All in favor? >> I >> I Anyone oppose?
>> Um just a point. You never opened it to the public. >> Oh, I'm sorry. Thank you for Okay. I thought >> I just want a technicality point. Yeah, you did. >> I want a technicality on this one. >> That's fine. Okay. So, um anyone opposed? Okay. So, I think um we're
done. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. >> Thank you sincerely. Thank you for all your time. >> All right. Thanks so much. And we'll uh Oh, so do we have a time frame on this? Like when will we >> Can I Can I not? >> Yes. >> He said it was going to be a short meeting. >> Yes, he did say that.
>> It's all my fault. >> So So anyway, but when when do you think how many how long do you think this will take to >> the revised plans? >> I'm just curious. >> Yeah, because we're going to have a short time for the next meeting. It's probably going to be in June. architecture and the engineer.
>> So, probably June meeting two to four weeks. >> Yeah, it's probably going to be the June meeting because this was two weeks into it. So, it probably be June whatever. >> Okay. Oh, and thanks for doing the special meeting. Couldn't do the last. >> Appreciate dealing with the new board members. Yes.
>> No. No. Watch out. >> Should I wait on doing those amendments until you give me the green light? >> No, you got the green light now. Anything that will comply with what they've done, I would say start >> Thank you so much. >> Yeah. Thanks. Thanks for everybody did
well. One more on the agenda. >> Oh, we have we have to we have to like close the meeting. >> Okay. So, everyone on motion to um >> Is there anything else on the agenda? >> There's one more thing on the >> Oh, there is one more thing on the agenda. I can't I don't even know what my agenda is anymore.
>> Okay. Let me see. Unfinished business, >> right? Is that where we are? >> Yeah, the 2026 financials was due today. So, if you didn't do it, >> go home and do it. >> You're going to be getting a fine. So if you didn't do it, it doesn't take that long. Just go home right now and do
it. >> Have you done it before? >> It really It doesn't take long at all. >> So much easier cuz um you're going to get a letter. >> Okay. Ready? Okay. Let's just close the meeting then if we're if we're done. >> Are we done? >> Uh govern uh you also have to do the
training completed by May 31st. >> Okay. >> Which I only got three people that did it. >> So who who needs all of us need to do this training? >> You. It's stormwater training. >> Storm water training. So Abby. >> Yeah. >> Uh No, it was uh Ken.
>> Yeah. >> Matt >> and Mark. >> So they need to do it. >> No, they >> they did it. So we all need to do it. >> Yes. You. >> Okay. >> Oh, wow. Okay. >> Were the ones, James, you said the ones that have to do it or who did it
already? >> And we could just go online and do it. >> Cool. >> Yeah. I sent you the >> You did? I sent you a reminder as well. >> You did. I I did the financial. Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. Okay. Anything else? >> And I just want to give you guys an update because you know, you've been
part of this whole process. The driven by the Marinian building. They got their signs up. They got their lights up. They're ready to open. I mean, I think they're going to start trying to lease out in August, September. They want to be the first one to open with all these other newer projects. So, they're pushing really hard. Okay. to open soon
as they get to, you know, the steps that that set off the pilot agreement. But as they hit 20% or 40% or 30%, we start collecting more and more money on the pilot. So, it starts kicking in. And I'm going to tell you, there was a lot of noise about it, but I'm also getting a lot of compliments now on how the building looks, especially with the
setback open. It's open up in the front and the windows and the nice retail that's going in. Um, so I think people are, you know, it looked ugly. No question. When you were building it, it looked ugly. >> Do you know what retail's going in? What? I can't tell what the retail is retail. Okay.
>> There is a there, you know, the issue right now is they need a liquor license uh for the restaurant. The restaurant will only go in if they get a liquor license. Um we're in the process of trying to get them a liquor license. Uh I'm going to hold them that uh they have to put a restaurant in there. So that
will be it was part of the condition for for the >> So if they don't put a restaurant in, I'm going to hold them till they can't open. Yeah, >> I can't say once they open, they get a restaurant in there and they go away, >> there's not much I can do with that. >> Um, but you know, they're moving along and and just for premise, the senior
housing, uh, it's already got 15 uh, vets in there or signed up and 22 PMP residents who are seniors out of 56 units. So, we got about 50 of them already rent. >> So, are they all is it >> they're not in yet. They're going to try to open again in September, but they can
put them on a list as they're ready to go. >> Okay. So, September for them. Wow. Okay. Good. Nice update. Thank you. >> All right. So, um, who would like to make a motion to >> Oh, I'll make a Can I make a motion to
Oh, I make a motion to adjourn. Abby. >> Second. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I NEVER COME BACK. I I'M OPPOSED. >> You're opposed to a journey. >> All right.
>> You know what? I just think I assumed I had already done the the storm water man. >> Nope. My hand with the other.