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You're on. Okay. Fine. So, should I I'll begin. Uh the following are the minutes of April. No, I'm sorry. That's not what I'm supposed to go to be reading. Okay, here we go. The following is the agenda for the uh regular meeting of the Pmpton Lakes Redevelopment Agency. The meeting

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is to be held in the municipal building, 25 Lennox Avenue on Thursday, July 16th, 2026, beginning at 7:30 p.m. Formal written advanced notice is required by the NGSA 10 um col4-1

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has been provided and this meeting at least uh 20 48 hours in advance of today giving the time, date, and location and to the extent known at the time of the agenda of this meeting. Such notice uh stated that the formal [clears throat] action may or may not be taken. This

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meeting will be videoed, recorded, and will be broadcast uh for later uh viewings for the public. The notice was posted on the bulletin board outside the office of the municipal clerks reserved uh for this and other similar announcements provided to the record the

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newspaper designated by the burough council to receive such notices and filed with the burough clerk. Um the pledge of allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation

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under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> And um [clears throat] to the uh oath of office, we have none. Roll call. Do we need to do um I get do we need to do a roll call?

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Okay. Miss Novak [clears throat] here. >> Mr. Seni >> here. >> Mr. Ross will be absent. Mr. Kimberlin will be absent. Mr. Lavasi >> here. >> Mr. Arresta >> here. >> And Mr. Venon >> here.

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>> Councilman Bennett >> here. And oh, Flynn Dominic is absent. and Peter Brewer. Okay. >> Here. >> Okay. All right. And then we have um let me see. Oh, correspondence. We have

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none. And the minutes from um April 30th. Okay. Um everybody get a chance to review the minutes. >> I had anybody any any uh questions? I have two

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minor minor minor notes. >> On the second page, >> okay, >> executive is this and a U. That's all minor. I don't major. >> And on the last page, new and unfinished business mandatory,

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>> land use board training. Just say it's storm water training. >> Which page? >> Oh, sorry. The last page. >> The last page. >> Mandatory land use board training. It's storm water. That's a storm water training, right? Not not significant comments,

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>> but more accuracy. That's fine. Good for that. I don't see it. >> Oh, the last page. Let's take a look at the last page. >> I think you're adding storm work, correct? >> Yeah. Yeah, just add >> Oh, add storm. >> Yeah, just add that install training

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>> so people know what we're doing. Thank you. >> Okay. >> I'll make a motion to approve the minutes as amended. >> Okay. Great. [snorts] >> I'll second. >> Okay. Mark. Okay. So, good. >> Thank you. And all in favor?

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>> I >> I. Anyone oppose? >> Okay. Good. >> All right. So, we're good for that. >> We don't need a roll call, right? We can just go forward with that. Then we have um approval of bills. Okay. So here

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again, we don't really know all the ins and outs of the the bills, but um everybody can see that we have total $2,112 legal fees for the Smith properties. Does that Oh, excuse me. >> Okay. And um and that does that that

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gets picked up, right? that >> yes that >> paid from the escro. >> So we get a charge back. >> Anybody brings a project to us, they have to give us a certain amount of escrow and anytime we know any kind of bills comes out of that and then we'll add more to it as we move. >> You're looking at the minutes. You're looking at the agenda for the Oh, I'm

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looking at the do am I a [laughter] >> There we go. >> That's why that's where's 2,000. >> Okay. I'm sorry. We do have legal fees though. And so again, that's for the Capid uh Dagley. Um uh and then also for

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the Smith properties and they do get charged back. Okay. >> Yes. >> So just for I know we have some new board members 6,000. >> There are no charges. You know there this the town should be charged for nothing unless our professionals are doing something for us. >> Okay. >> That's the only way where we get the charge. Everything else should be picked

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up by the cost of development. >> Okay. Good. like the general matters are um legal fees for auntie and that comes out of the redevelopment budget and then everything else is out of escrow. >> Okay. >> So if anybody would like to see anything

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I have it there. >> I'll make a motion to pay the both both bills. >> All yours as well. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Sinki. >> Okay. Second that. >> Who? And all in favor? >> I

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>> I Anyone oppose? Okay, good. Um, we don't have a director's um report, right? >> Well, I can help. Sorry. I had some meetings with >> Okay. Okay. projects that we've done. Uh yesterday I had a meeting with heagga

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their team and they are about two weeks out of finishing getting a temporary CR. They came in asking for a temporary. I told them to give be able to give them a temporary after 12 months out. We're not going to give them a final until we know the restaurant and the retail that's going in.

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>> Oh, okay. >> They want to start the temporary so they could start leasing. They hope to start leasing in sometime in September and then see first residents moving in end of September, beginning of October. There are some

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apartments that still need to have some work done for our inspectors finding some things. So those inspector those apartments are pulled out of the number and and they formulated those. I think it was around 120 apartments are ready to go at this moment that they that have been approved and they get the temporary

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seal on that. So, it was a good meeting. I don't know if everybody's seen the civic center or been in the civic center that's up and running and that was all donated through that their work and we're going to start renting in that that building out to the public. So, that was a nice setup. The only change to the plan

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is the emergency door in the back here was when they put the plan together, the shed was still there. So, now the shed is gone. They have to move it down further towards the sidewalk to open the gate because it had initially there. or something. That's the only difference

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that they're doing is moving moving it. >> Okay. >> And then same so um Meridian brought in a gentleman to oversee the project that's outside Meridian. It's the same person who's interested in buying the SU. >> Oh.

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>> So we met with him also because he was at the meeting and he wanted to know he's very interested in buying Susian property as is just as you guys approved it to make it happen. Um, but he wanted to know the town's feeling, meaning how we feel about the project and and the area. I said, "Look, that's been a

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blight in our town for many years. So, we want to see that done. We want to fix that up. We want the gas station gone. We want this project to happen. >> It's already been approved pretty much by all the boards. So, now they just have to move forward. So, he's very close to making an offer to purchase it.

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>> And once he purchases it, he will start building. This is a gentleman only builds 50 units or less. So he's not a big builder building hundreds of units. Um he loves the town. He's worked on Capidia's projects for many years to get his own little project here. So the solution which is only 22 units is a

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perfect. >> Okay. >> Um >> don't we have to approve that? >> That was the transfer. We would approve the transfer. >> We would have to approve the transfer and recover. Right. >> Right. You you approve the transfer >> and uh unless you have questions. That's

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it. We're still I have S going next week with the inspectors to uh CJM to uh ask them to clean up the front uh change the wood. Maybe even put back a a a barrier in front there so nobody gets into the

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front doors and windows. That project is moving along. It's a little slower. From the back it looks great. From the front it looks horrible. I wish they had done the front first and the back last, but that's not what they did. So, uh, he will be going over there to talk to them to tell them to clean up the front of that. >> Okay. So, we don't have a timet on that

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one, though, do we? >> Well, he's going to go talk to them this week. Well, when it's going to be done. >> Yeah. >> Uh, they're saying six to seven months. >> And then I had a meeting with this. Let's do I had a meeting with the senior housing. They're all ready to go and they're they're getting their temporary seal also. Uh, they're at the point now

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where they've rented out a 44. So, they do a you know, they do a a check on each person. They have 44 people already to move in there. Okay. Vets and seniors. I think 29 of them were from Compton and the rest are from nearby towns.

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>> Um so they're just waiting for their temporary to finish the out landscaping and then they will start. They're hoping to be moving people in in September. In September also um they had some questions, you know, like garbage, for example, who picks up

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that garbage? Does the town pick up that garbage? Or do they have to buy the hall? I suggested to them that they should probably get a private hauler because we're normally picking up twice a week and you know private hauler might not pick it up more than twist. >> Okay. >> Um so they're still working out those >> Okay, good.

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>> That's all I got. >> That's close. >> I have two questions. I'm already at in the front the parking. Is there a roll down door on that? >> No, there will be no door. >> There's no there's no door on that parking talked about that. There's no doors. There's no pad to get in or out of it. So I said, "What's gonna stop

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people from parking on the bottom floor?" You know, shut down. >> And it just looks >> just looks unfinish without the roll down door. >> I think this is my personal opinion. Once they see how that goes, they're going to have to add something, >> you know, because it's not going to work. >> Yeah. >> He's cuz he even said, "So somebody goes

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in there and parks." >> I was going to walk in there the other day and just check it out. >> Ask for any of you guys who want to go take a tour. The guy name, his name is Vinnie. He's the instant manager there. He knows all about the boards and he's been involved with them again. We're glad to give you a tour of the company. >> Okay.

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>> Um yes, that came up though. There is no uh gate or control. And I said, "Well, what happens when people pull into actual numbered spots that someone has?" He said, "Well, we're going to have to address that within the management system. They have a full-time manager that's going to be on the staff there,

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and it's going to be the same person who's going to manage the 20 unit building also." procedure. >> Was Wasn't there supposed to be some kind of like, you know, a swipe card or something? I I >> that's to get into the uh apartment into the areas. Everything swiped once you get in, but the garage itself is open. Okay. >> And remember, the county made

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>> the the no right-hand turns, left-hand turn decisions that had nothing to do with us. So, coming out of the garage, let me give it straight. Coming out of the garage, you cannot make a right turn. Don't make a left turn. >> Right. >> Okay. But remember the back garage, >> I mean the back building does not attach

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to the front garage. So all it's only 45 apartments, but those 45 apartments have to go out on back and in on back. >> You can only make a left out. >> Can only make a right. It's right in, right out. Right out. Yeah. Okay. Right in, right? Yes. And I and I was honest with him. I said to him, [clears throat]

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"So now let's talk about, you know, what do you see the traffic concerns are?" Because, you know, I do hear people put up here. And he said he doesn't really see any issues of the cars because they don't all leave at the same time. They don't come back. He said the only issue he would see is we have a lot of school buses from winter school in and out on

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that street and they slow down the traffic there. So there might be some traffic to make the turn if your school buses stop for some reason. >> He does he doesn't believe there's going to be any issues with the traffic. He said especially on Babcock um because that's a less use section and you can

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only get to the back building with that. can get to the front garage from from the front but not to the back. So, that one will be less used and there's more room to work there with. So, the other thing we did I don't know you guys know initially they were going to they had six spots

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in front of the entrance on bad. Okay. We said that's not going to work because how is the radius of turning to move in the parking lot and all that's not going to work. So, we told them we want you to get rid of those spots. >> Okay. and and they were happy with that because they didn't want to stripe and do all that other stuff. So they said,

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"We'll get rid of all those spots. Now we have a you can still drive through the pondsole to go out by the high school or out by backpock with no parking in the way, >> right?" >> Um so nobody you don't have to maneuver around things. So I think that's going to help the traffic flow very

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>> This is a dumb one, but I'm gonna ask it. >> Yeah, >> we verified that the flag holes are shown on the plan. >> Yeah, that's that's kind of funky. We've got all that space on that corner and now it's like killed with those black. >> I was going to bring that up in my report. You know, this Wednesday we have

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a council meeting. She'll be presenting the plans that we talked about about the meeting. And I I already told them kind of lied a little bit and said that you already passed you can't have certain flags up. He said the only flags we're flying there is the American flag, the town flag, and an M for the only three

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flags that fly. Um, I said, "Well, you can't buy any lease signs or any of those other things. We just passed that." Oh, you did? >> He was [laughter] okay with that. I And I told, too. I said, "Look, my personal opinion on the building. I love it. Everything looks great. I'm not a fan of the sign and I'm not a fan of those."

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>> Yeah. Because that's cluttered. Very cluttered. >> They just like it and and they did measure the distances for wheelchairs. It does meet the requirements for wheelchairs outside of that. So, >> we'll just be aware of future um flag polls in this. I mean, that's something you guys can [laughter] think about as

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you move forward. I mean, if I had to do this, I would take the flag pulls out and take the sign. I don't like >> Yeah. Yeah. >> They like it. >> They like putting their name on them. >> So, >> would it be possible to do So, we've had like a lot of development going on. We

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have a relatively new board. Would it be possible to do like a designated meeting where we just went out and walked and looked at some of the properties? >> That's a great idea. Yeah. Yeah. And just kind of >> have to advertise it. >> You have to advertise and make it available to the public to not going to make it to the public. >> Well, it would have to be we would have

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to like start here. >> No, but you guys go to small groups, too. >> Oh, or on your own. >> Yeah, but don't do it for him because you'd have to have the public available every place that you go. >> If you karm, you have Vinnie's number, right? If you have if you want if you're

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home and free and had nothing to do, you can always just call Vinnie uh you know, have call and get Vinnie's number. Say, "Look, I want to come over in an hour. You're going to be there. He'll meet you in the garage and he'll take you." Oh, >> okay. I guess if you do that, just say you're on the rebell. >> Yeah. [laughter]

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>> I want to do it. >> Okay. All right. Um, thank you. Um, [clears throat] um, okay. So, we did that. Okay. So, they we have no conceptual uh presentation. So you're we're finished

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with conceptual nothing. So just the resolution now. >> Yeah. Let me discuss the I think the status here. >> Okay. >> Unfortunately unfortunately um following that meeting you know you approved he wanted an approval on the plans. So everything presented you approved said

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yep and then subject to an agreement. >> Put together an agreement. He looked at it. I think do, you know, Glenn saw it um put around and then the other side saw it and he agreed to the change that I did put in. >> I think there's some things that may be in the minutes that are not in there explicitly,

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>> right? >> They're not here. So, if you want to go through the things you think should be in there in the minutes, if you want, I can >> amend the resol amend the agreement to specifically include what you think are supposed to be in there. They're going to have to he's going to have to say

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yeah. If he was at the meeting and he's reading the minutes and he knows it too, then it should be a yes. But I think that that's the way to deal with it. So I think we should everybody pull out your minutes and what you think is was supposed to be in there, >> right? >> And let's talk go through each one. >> And can I just add to that? We're not

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talking about making changes that are not in >> just just the changes in the minutes. >> Just things that are in the minutes. >> Very good point. >> We do it. >> I hope I write everything in there. [laughter] Um, >> and could you just speak to just because

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just so what we fully understand, right? We approve we conceptually approved the plans. >> What if we locked up and never got to an agreement >> and they have absolutely nothing. That that was my point. It doesn't get them anything >> and even that it was kind of like a silly >> there were a lot of conditions.

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>> Yeah, you don't get anything if you don't have an agreement. It didn't designate them. So, okay. I didn't think it was a good idea, >> but it also gave them nothing. We're not like legally, you know, we're not >> No, they have no rights. They have no rights until they are designated. Just so that we just So >> Yep. >> Okay. >> Yep. That's absolutely correct.

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>> So they're designated. >> They are not designated until you approve a a redevelopment agreement with them, which would have all the terms that you require of them. >> Okay. um then that that's on the agenda, but I think that there's going to be some there may be some amendments to

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that, some additions because of the some things that maybe we're not in that agreement. >> So, I think I I'll start. I think we talked about at the meeting that the entrance of the front wanted to be angled. I think it might be on the plan, but I can't tell.

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>> It is on the plan. It's on the I think it's a 63 revision. I got to look and see the revision date. Yeah, it's the June 3rd revised plans. They show >> they show the corner cut, >> right? Yes.

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>> They show that angled with the overhang. >> Was that on the plane that was given to you in >> Yes. And was provided and so it was provided to me. It was provided to Karm has one. >> Kristen has one. Abby has one. >> Those are the plans we attached. That

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one's done. Okay. >> Already done. So do we want to put that do we that's that those are the plans will be that plan okay that was just referenced is going to be attached that's their their latest so that's done all right so then um

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okay so we that that's the first one that we had provide uh 10-ft sidewalks along Kfax and Lakeside while maintaining the established building line on Waniku I I think that's done but I'm not positive so we should

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>> Well that goes back to question was is it can cataly see that on the plan. So the only way that's going to work is if the the the bottom is is pushed back but then the upper parts go to where >> didn't we look at it and we thought that it was 10 10 >> the first floor is pushed back

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>> right so it is >> on that ground >> on that corner >> all along KFax I thought >> well it's corner in lakeside too right >> it is pushed back along you go to page

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first page A201 that it it shows that it's set back. >> Listen, I think we should just still have it in there. >> Yeah, I think we should have put it in the resolution in case we're reading the the can top.

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>> We can't tell that from there. >> Well, that we'll get there. That that's a whole other discussion. >> I I don't think we demanded that, by the way. I mean, they want to push the whole building back in. >> We would love that. >> Yeah, that would be fun. >> Um, so I guess I have a question. Do we ever like

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>> So, a lot of times the planning board >> has purview on a lot of things that that we're we're conceptual, right? >> Right. >> No, no, you you can get down to the color and texture of the bricks. you are as specific as you want to be more specific

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>> cuz there are times the planning board will I've listened to their meetings and on redevelopments they'll kind of like wave their hands and be like hey redevelopment wanted it this way we can't comment >> um so do we ever like lay out so like I my thought would be if we wanted 10 ft

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and their plans don't explicitly show it >> as they get to the planning board they're going to have a more detailed plan set >> well they should show that >> they would have to show it you you can require That's >> okay. >> The plan should show explicitly a dimension 10 foot minimum.

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>> Let me ask was that and I'll go back to the minutes. Was that in the minutes stating there was 10 ft? >> It says provide 10-ft sidewalks along Kex and Lakeside. We did talk about that. >> It says it in the minutes and yes, you can require them to do that. >> Yes. >> Yeah. And going back to your question, the

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planning board sitting, you know, I sit on the tape board also, they sometimes feel neglected that they can't make some of the changes that you guys have the ability to make because you guys have, I won't say more power, but a different power to this building than the planning board, which would normally have that

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power to to do that, right? >> So sometimes they do say we'd like we would have liked this, but they approved that at redevelopment, so we can't change that because redevelopment didn't. >> Hm. I wonder if sometimes we would be Well, we didn't think of that. >> Well, [laughter] and that's why I had made the suggestion when we have an opening seat on this board. Yeah.

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>> I'd like to put Mike Simone, who is the planning board chair. >> That would be wonderful. >> On this board also and he would be the connection between the two boards to go back and forth. I think that would be a good idea. >> I think so, too. >> So, that's something to keep in mind. >> Yeah. Kristen is, which is a good thing,

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>> right? engineers which is a great idea. Yeah, you could definitely say 10 minutes. >> Okay. So that so we should include that. Then we had investigate and I remember Matt um this was uh investigate the feasibility of adding on street parking

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along uh Lakeside Avenue because we did talk about that. >> Yeah, they submitted an investigation. I I don't I'm not sure if they knew kind of followed what we were talking about. They put they showed a concept of

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putting two on street parking spaces by eliminating the sidewalk. >> Oh, >> that was their proposal for the two on street like eliminate the sidewalk and put two right up bump the curb in face in flush with the building. >> So there would be no sidewalk.

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>> Correct. Really? >> Or it would be a very like a two it would be a twoft sidewalk. I think it kind of >> so I think the clock >> when we did the other building across the street they had much more room to work with on that side. So they were

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able to push the sidewalk in and then move the indented parking there. On the other side there is no room to do that. So the only choice you have is get rid of the sidewalk. Don't get parking. That's the only choice. >> Isn't there parking um there now? But now there's a driveway there because of

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the the little parking space that the ice cream station has. So they have that apron, >> right? They'll still have that. That's the entrance into their >> Oh, that's right. >> I I will say I don't know that I agree. I think what's misleading is their plans, their survey and their base plans

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are from pre Salvation Army development >> on >> on that side >> on that side. >> So like it's not representative of how the road is actually configured today. >> I don't know the side. I don't know. I mean, to me, just driving past there, it doesn't seem like there would be enough

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room for a spot and a sidewalk. But maybe there is. I don't I don't know. >> Yeah, that's >> they're very afraid of the county planning board. They made that very clear. >> Yeah, they are. Very afraid of the county. >> I would put in there, you could always say something like to the effect of if

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there is enough space to do both, >> would you enter would you entertain the idea of looking at that? it would only be beneficial to them because it's more parking spaces for their units >> because >> yeah, >> so across the street at the other place there's parking for those units and it's

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marked certain times of days when people can park there. It would be the same thing on that side. You know, certain times regular people can park anytime they want and then at night residents. >> So, um they'd only get two spots max, but >> if I don't know, so I can't speak.

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>> Yeah. >> Okay. So we could put in um >> they just don't want to go to the county planning board. That that is like their biggest sticking point. >> But but on Lakeside, would they have to go to the county planning board for for that? >> Not if it's just on Lakeside, but they

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would have to make modifications around by Kfax. >> Well, either way they have to go >> they have to go to the county anyway. Either way, it's not like >> Yeah. >> And they're going to go to the county for Moniku and Kfax that portfol. So um you know, either way they're going. So

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we so we should just include that in there. >> Well, I don't think do we have to do it because the county knows that, right? >> If you want them to further investigate it and to be a requirement, you'll put it in, but that doesn't do much other than saying investigate. >> Going the county, we we don't tell them

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the county. They the county tells them they have to come to us, but >> we don't. Should we put it in just so so the planning board knows our the threat of our thoughts? Anyway, [music] um >> I don't want to talk to Andy. I don't know how you would do that. >> That that's the benefit of the engineer.

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She knows all all the specifics of holding it back in the 10 ft and all that stuff. That's that's the benefit of having her on. >> That would have been a good point and makes up a good point. Maybe that question should have been asked to the engineer before the meeting. Is there room to put a spot and sidewalk? I you know, I can't answer that. I don't

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>> Yeah. And her answer would be I need updated base mapping. like I need an updated survey >> and I'm going to say this >> to be to be able to show it say we should have >> that that's >> so so we should require updated surveys >> I think you're going to have to anyway

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when they do project >> so so you know I think we could make note that they have to update the surveys before submitting their planning board >> that shows that shows an accurate survey >> the planning board would require >> of the intersection of Kfax and Lakeside

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and in conjunction with the updated plan investigate if they can mirror the curb returns and the basically the configuration on the other side of lakeside on this side >> and that would also I would say you should ask and that should help you should ask our engineer to also identify

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if that can be done so okay we don't want to trust their engineer say we don't trust our own engineers >> yeah and I what I think what I worded is that they'd have to investigate the parking on street parking on lakeside um and provide the analysis is for the review of our engineer.

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>> Yeah, that's why it may be big. >> Yeah, two spots are big. >> Yeah, >> there are there is other on street parking on Lakeside >> further down, right? There's on street

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parking in front of the >> shoe store. Yeah, like all those places. So, >> okay. Then the evaluate underground storm water management systems to the satisfaction of the board engineer.

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That was on there. >> They said no. >> That was it. That was their response. They just said no. >> Is that what they said? No. No. >> And their in their engineer's response letter. >> He said basically it's it's professional opinion. It's not feasible.

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So >> well there are things that are beyond the scope of of doing you know without tearing the whole block apart right >> again I can't speak to that >> the topography of that I don't know how I >> I can't speak to any of that to see the engineer um so you'd have to again ask the engineer if that's

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>> so we should ask for >> yeah I mean it comes down to how far how hard we want to push that's really it that that's the >> all right revise the building design to accommodate dumpster storage on site. I know we talked about this or um secure

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an easement for dumpster place. >> We have that that's the easement that need easement for either truck access to get there or to for the dumpsters to be out because then they would have to lose parking spaces to put the dumpsters there. That's in this that's in the

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>> Okay. But they have a choice, right? They haven't worked that out yet. >> Yes. So, you just have to have an e an easement that will accommodate what they're going to propose. Um, so we're and then we have um ensure the the building is pet free. I know they said they >> in there.

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>> That is in there. Okay. >> And I'm reading this comment on the corner here. I think this addresses what you brought up about the shrubbery. >> Yeah. This right. This is the one about the KOA um >> Yeah. The KOA um apartment. Sorry.

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>> Yes. Okay. >> And that's in the agreement that what they wrote there? that is in our resolution referencing that they are approved including the plans that were provided by their architect on July 16th um which was today finally >> my question is what they're presenting

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here wasn't presented in that meeting right >> no >> no but it was it is now they have said that they will do that and so the resolution approving the the redevelopment agreement if they if you choose to do that tonight specifically references that plan that you're

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pointing to It will be uh it will include these subjects review and approval. >> And I'm not part of all the emails, but how did this come about? Did someone ask or >> I I Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay, good. >> We had talked about the COA the ground

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floor residential kind of at the tail end of the meeting and it was kind of like oh yeah, we'll have to deal with that and then >> yeah obligation that they have to follow. There's no around that. Where they put it is really up to them. They can put it anywhere in the building they want. And

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we have our own COA group that handles the COA. So they're not even in charge of who sits gets the COA, who gets in the COA. That's all done through a group that we hire. >> So they have no say. They just have to build. >> We just This particular apartment building was just right on the public

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side. >> That's a great >> Okay, good. Um goose neck lighting for signage instead of uh back lit signs. I think we did talk about that. Um, so that's >> yeah, the agreement

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makes sense, you know, says boost necks permitted and no back. >> Yeah, >> I think it's I saw it somewhere. >> Okay, I think it's okay. Remove um or revise uh rooftop overhangs if they extend into the public right away

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without approval. We talked about that um at the meeting. I don't know if the rooftops are going to extend into the rightway. >> Yeah, we talk about the sidewalk. >> No, the rightway is the face is the building. Their property line is the building face. >> No, I understand.

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>> And and and their building comes up at the property line and at the top the overhang extends past their property line. >> Right. But that most most places do that, right? They have some type of molding or something, right? >> That's going to make >> Yeah. I just don't >> they will need the

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>> I don't know how we permit that. >> Yeah. They would need the consent of us to do it >> of the burrow to do that. >> But I'm I'm what I'm trying to say is that's not an unusual Yeah. That happens on every building. Even small houses, we do that. >> You know, there's an overhang on top that's over our property. They have to

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get a piece of an agreement to do that. But, you know, the CGM building had that um uh port in the back where you could drive under, right? You know, that was an all right. You know, they had to build >> um and and by the way, they used that.

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Didn't they use that when they were building that we had this eman already for the uh the deck that was there that we got that space? >> Honestly, I only flagged it because it's a large >> How much is it? I don't know. >> It doesn't [clears throat] have a

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dimension. >> The benefit >> and in the rendering it just especially Meridia sometimes that that corners at the top it can make the building feel overwhelming. the the the way the way it is dressed at least in the back door way

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is they cannot legally do that until the burrow says yes if it's in the right way >> and then the burrow can get into the detail if they want to >> they can't apply instead of >> they can't apply for anything like >> yeah I don't have just >> and they can't do it if the doesn't

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that's >> cuz it's into the wan it's into the wanq way so they'll probably pull back on that anyway. But yes, >> I don't know. The county would >> Well, no, the countyy's pretty. >> They I mean, they may although up several stories out of Milton the

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county. >> Yeah. I don't know how they they have high requirements depending on how high you're going and how much overhang could be. And if it's only one story, it's this. If it's three, five stories, it's this. But I don't know. >> I I just wanted it brought up so that

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doesn't show an exact dimension, >> right? And I just don't want it to feel like it's >> overpowering knowledge anyway. >> They would need an ement from the town if they're going past the uh the right way. >> I would say from the public entity, right? It could be the county, it could

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be the town and let them figure that out. >> I'll pick from the public entity. >> Okay. cuz he basically said to have the overhang, they'd have to push the building back. To have the overhang that they're showing the plans, they'd have to push

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building back to make it stay in line, the property line. >> Yeah. There's not many buildings doing that just to keep it alive. >> No. >> All right. Then we have um install planters around the courtyard perimeter. Um we did talk about that. Um

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>> is that this or is that something else? No, that's within the courtyard. >> In the courtyard. >> Yeah. In the courtyard, we also had the same problem as we have with the COA units where the anybody using the courtyard could come right up to a a private window. >> And again, I don't remember. I don't

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have the minutes in front. Did they agree to that? >> I I shown on the plan. >> Okay. >> They Yeah, right. It is shown on the plan. >> Okay. So, that was shown on plan. >> Okay. So, that's done. Okay. Um [clears throat] Okay. And then

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>> bring your paperwork. You know what? >> All right. And then we have the paperwork. >> Then we have submit updated architectural renderings. Now we have one that was submitted um is that June 5th? >> On the 5th. On the 5th. >> On the 5th. Okay. Um it doesn't have all

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uh design reser um revisions because we had the co- revisions afterwards. Um but it has I think it has everything else. Do you see anything missing? >> I don't think so. >> Yeah, I don't think so either. So, we

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>> It's just that bump back for the That's fine. It actually shows. >> Does it show the um the angled on the angle? >> It does on >> this one. It shows >> Kristen did have a comment. She did something about

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>> spoke with Kristen and >> they angled the corner and typically you would put the the door there, >> right? >> Not a window, right? >> Because you would want to make that the focal point of the business and in the rendering they're showing it as a window. >> Um, >> that's true.

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>> So, she said she would be commenting on it. >> I don't know that we got a revised report from her, but that she would comment that it should be a door. Door should be at the corner. >> Yeah. And that's Yeah. How do we just put that in as a [clears throat] comment? >> So, and and was it just

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Okay. So, that's it right there. Window. >> See how that that overhangs, >> right? >> That is where they chamfered that corner. >> Okay. But they didn't they didn't go all the way up the >> No, they they what they were saying is you they wouldn't go all the way up because then you would have to address the footprint of all those all those

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buildings. Yeah. There's no way they >> Okay. So there so we um yeah I saw she today she uh had a comment about that >> being a window instead of a door. Okay. If I make a statement that I can >> Yeah.

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>> Uh so uh acknowledging you know receipt acknowledging that they modified the corner at Monu and >> Kfax >> Kfax um but uh based on conversation B you know based on input from the planner

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>> uh we would require that the >> door the you know the >> Well can I ask is there a door on that side? >> There is. There is another door on that back side because if there's no door then it would be >> I got to look at the uh

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>> Well, I don't think they would have two entrances. >> Well, they could change one that that should be the main door. >> No, the main door should be on one. >> It Well, that >> so that so that is shown as coffee shop. that

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>> corner that that corner unit >> and right now the door is pushed all the way up Wanik towards Meridia. >> Okay. >> So you would just move that door >> to the corner corner instead of >> to get into the coffee retail. >> That's getting into the retail.

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>> Move the door. >> Yeah. To getting into the retail. >> To get into the retail. >> That's not to get into the apartment. >> No, it's to get into the retail [laughter] corner retail unit there. And if you look at the building as it exists now, they they have that that angled doorway. >> Yeah. To go into the

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>> to go into the beauty shop on the front. They have that you're talking about on the other side. >> No, we're talking about the front right now. >> Oh, you're talking about where the beauty shop is? >> Yes. >> Oh, I thought that was the door. That's not the door. >> They they just made it a window for some reason. >> That's where they cut that corner. That's just a window.

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>> That should be Yeah. I don't know why it wouldn't. Now, you know, I I'll tell you why they probably did it that way. Because that doorway will get them into the apartments and into the retail. >> They don't want is separate. >> It's the floor plan. It's just the coffee shop. >> Yeah, that doesn't make sense. >> So maybe they just put, you know, didn't

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think it. >> Okay. >> Unless it's because if you put a door there, then you got to >> show some more space in the retail. >> So, do we want to see um a a a rendering of like with We have to >> Yeah. >> Do we want another rendering to of the

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um of all the revisions, do you think? No, >> typically these are things subject to the review and approval are questioned because she's going to see it for planning. >> Okay. Okay. And then add secure entrance if any non-resident access is permitted. Oh, remember we

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talked about that. Um but we I don't know um when they come up from the from the parking or know if they're in the retail. I'm guessing. >> Yeah. So there is underground parking in this. >> Right. Um, but it it says add secure

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entrance if if if any non-resident access is permitted. >> But there should be no entrance from the parking garage >> without a fob to get into the apartments, right? >> There's no open door, for example, to walk upstairs. Now, I don't know. Maybe

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they were saying there was open doors to walk into the retail. I don't know if that's what they were saying. >> Secure entrance if any non >> I would say no to that, too, by the I would say you'd have to I think yes. I now the argument was so what you're basically saying to the retail people is they have to walk out of the garage, walk around the building to enter in the

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front. >> Okay. >> And and I don't see any reason that we we should not agree with that. Let them have to walk around. I don't you shouldn't want more doors from the inside. >> Okay. >> To get into the retail, >> okay? >> You know, just because it's another doorway that people can get in and out.

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>> That's something they have to figure out though, you know, because it's their retail. So if that means you're parking there and you have to come out steps around the ice station or the other corner come around and get into the retail drop but no entrance to retail except from the street level >> from the street side right

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>> you it looks like you will be able to come up the stair you'll be able to park in the park say you have spot as the retail you'll be able to park in the parking garage walk up the staircase get into a a a hallway that will let you walk out on KFax Right.

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>> But you will not be able to get into the residential portion of of the main floor. >> And I think what'll happen is maybe they work out a deal with some people who work in the buildings in that retail and give you a spot in the basement to park and that would leave the street marking open for customers, but they need a way

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to get in and out. So that would be coming through the the hallway as long as you can't get into the rest of the building. Yeah. >> That that's common. >> Okay. So how um so do you have a >> no no entrance to the retail except from the street. Okay. And >> that accomplishes that because they have

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to come out out to the street then get in >> no matter how they get out the street. Could be a doorway out or go out. Yep. >> Okay. Um include a um oh management office within the building. I know we talked about this. And provide regular posted on-site management hours.

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>> Can't require management on on site. Just certain numbers the state >> management office. You want >> Oh, just an office or a person? >> A man. We It It says here management office, but we did talk about >> an office. An office they they could build, but are you asking to have a full-time person on staff there?

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>> Well, that's what we talked about at the >> No, I think event I think eventually them to have regular hours where the person would Yeah. Not living there. Not a super No. >> Right. >> Right. So, yes, you can do that. Sure. >> Yeah. Okay.

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>> They did an office. Are they? And where's that? Is that next to the COA or >> the Yeah, it's on the first floor in the residential corridor next to the community center. >> And just so you guys all know for everybody on the board, the way they normally do this is they'll set up a a fake apartment that's in these offices

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or wherever. And that's what they show people when they come in. It's not like they have every apartment that they're walking to saying, "Do you want this one? Do you want this one? Do you want this one?" Right? >> They say, "This is a onebedroom, this is a two-bedroom, you know, pick." And I actually tried to get pricing out of Meridian. And you know, it's how they

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this is the way it works. And if they're going to do a two-year lease, there might be a better deal. If they're doing a one-year lease and if they're going to say they're going to be here for five years, they might get a better deal than the cost of the apartment. So, they negotiate with every person that comes in. >> Oh, okay. >> So, it's hard to get a number out. >> Okay. >> Because I know people are asking

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actually they're asking how much they cost, >> right? >> Okay. So, we want we do want to make sure that they include a management office within the building. >> So, they have it. >> It's in it's in the right. So, so then we're okay. We're okay. We have that here. >> Okay. So, um

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does anybody have any discussions? Anybody have any other um expectation that they wanted to see in the resolution that we didn't talk about? >> Well, apart from these, every other thing that we discussed is in there. Uh and we took out, you know, they we made

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some changes to them saying that [clears throat] they it's only subject to finding financing and other stuff. So, it was tightened up and the pets and no subleas leasing and a lot of that was in there. Um, there's a timeline normally the regular timeline's always scheduled on what they can do. Not they

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don't have a deadline to get things. They have a deadline to put in their applications to submit and to move things along which is normal. Um, that's on regular basis. It's contingent on two two really big things. one the approval of the pilot of the financial agreement and two the revision to the ordinance

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allowing certain allowing these changes. So this is a compliant but they have to change the redevelopment plan. They're going to work on that though. They have to put together that. Those are the two big contingencies. Other than that, it's >> just for the new people go over the process. You know, we're gonna vote on this tonight. Then what's the next steps

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that happen there? >> Excuse me. >> The next steps that how the process moves forward >> for this it is going to be if if you voted on and approved it tonight, they have um they would have to look at these few little additions and agree on it. Then this agreement will be solid. Then

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they have two things to do. one, they have a a the application to go to the burrow seeking the pilot, which is the the tax exemption uh and and the structure of that and how long it's going to be. They have to negotiate that with the bur. You don't do that. You um you're making a recommendation based on

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Glenn looking at the financials that it's not going to work with regular taxes. He's not saying what it should be or how much, but it won't work. So, you are making a recommend. you're being asked to there's a resolution to recommend uh that the bureau negotiate a redevelop a financial agree agreement um

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but then also um in a parallel track they are going to be putting together a draft ordinance to change the um setbacks and bulk standards for the uh this redevelopment area so this property

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becomes a conforming application. So when they go to the planning board they won't need any variances. So, those are the two things they're going to be doing once this agreement gets approved and signed. Once those things, if they're done, um once those are accomplished, then they'll put together the plans and

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submit to the planning board, which then would go through the regular planning board approval. Uh they're going to need some county approval, but then it's going to go forward that way. That's >> And the only thing I'll add to that is the council does vote on on some of these pieces. So even though you guys have been doing what all the work you're doing here, the uh the plan that they're

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putting together, the agreement, council has to vote on it. >> So they could vote yes, they could vote no on that. So no matter what you do here, they vote no to that project doesn't go forward unless they change the agreement and everybody's happy. >> And they also have to approve the easement that they're asking for to get the access to the parking and for the

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and for the garbage. >> So the the council does have a vote on on the project twice really moving forward on how this happens. When it gets to the planning board, this is where it gets a little different. When it gets to the planning board, the planning board becomes the advisory board to to everybody. They can't.

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Usually planning board has the final say to make changes. >> You guys have that ability where the planning board really doesn't because it becomes a conforming application, right? >> So sometimes they'll make suggestions to you like we've had it happen in other projects where you know we don't we all miss things. The planning board catches

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something, right? and they'll call the redevelopment agency say, "Hey, say we we just noticed that you're missing this and then you guys can add that back in." So, it's kind of like a double check in both. >> That's good. >> Look at both things, but you guys have more power at this moment than the planning does, which is kind of backwards.

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>> So, so right now we'll vote and then um >> two votes. One to approve the execution of the redevelopment agreement was attached subject to the revisions that we talked about. I'll make those changes before it goes over to them. Second one is just a plain old that you will

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recommend to the bureau that they negotiate and look at a financial agreement or pilot and that's what it will. >> So I just have a quick question. >> Sure. >> If we decided to be quick >> if we decided right now even though it wasn't discussed in our last meeting,

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you know what we don't want. It's too late to make that. They're gonna they would complain about it, but they have no right, no ability to go forward until you designate them. That's why I told Steve, "Why are you looking for a vote on approving the plans?" Because you get nothing. You

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wanted it technically you can do it. They they can't go to court and say they could go to a judge and said, "Oh, they said this." Nothing's approved until the agreement's approved. So, no, nothing's approved. >> So, what you're doing at this moment is just recommending to the council seek

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forward. You're not voting really on anything except to send it to the council. >> The council makes the >> and the council will make >> change to make the changes on the ordinance to make the pilot >> and the financial agreement. Yeah. Nothing goes forward without >> But if we agree to the agreement, we've agreed agreement. Like if we agree to

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the agreement, we're concept we're we're blessing the plans. We're we're we're saying yes. >> You're saying yes to us. >> Yes. We're saying yes to Correct. Correct. Correct. And we and we have said yes. This board has said yes.

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>> And we've said yes several times. >> And then you said yes. >> Yes. >> So I I just again I only do this for the new people. The reason this board these boards are set up is because when when a town like us, which is a small town, has changing council all the time. It's very

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difficult to to get because projects take a long time. This the Meridian project took 10 years. You know how many different council people have been involved with the council while that went on? So, what we decided early on was to let a board like you who has the knowledge and is consistent get that

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information over to us because it's so hard to get halfway there and then the three new council people come in and then you start from scratch again and it just keeps changing from year to year to year when you do that. So, that's why the red and by the way, the redevelopment agent as you all know is a state-run agency. We didn't just pick

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this out of the sky and say let's make a redevelopment agency. It's run by the state. There's requirements that we have to do, but it gives a little consistency to what we want. But the council does still, you know, I always tell the council and knows this, at the end of the day, it's their decisions about how things are going to happen. You know,

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they're elected to make those decisions. So sometimes we say yes, sometimes we say [snorts] again, it depends who's on the council, right? It could be this council says yes, the next council says no. It's just the way. >> Yes. >> All right. So on the financial recommend

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the resolution recommending the financials there's a whereas that the PL has reviewed the financial proposal and projection you know deep that we've done that we've done a financial review >> but I could amend that to say that the that professionals have >> professionals have I have not seen

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anything in the financial right so I struggle with this whole thing because we have a plan that says it's three stories and they come in and they say we can't make three stories work financially >> and we just have to take on faith. We don't see those financials. We don't we're not party to that pilot

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discussion. So, we're taking it on faith. But that truly is only going to work as a four-story building. >> But that's why you have Glenn because and and there's certain licensing you need to do that. He's supposed to be looking at that with along with our

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burough attorney and your your attorney here on the board. They sit together and talk about that even the >> And I would love Glenn to have us an executive session and explain it to us. Yeah, I he could, but that's not a normal procedure. I mean, it it really has nothing to do with even the council. We don't know. We we have no part,

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>> but we're being asked to approve a project that doesn't agree with our our standards on the premise that it only works financially, >> right? >> So, then they're going to go to the council and they're going to say, "Hey, you guys worry about the finances. Don't worry about the scope of the building.

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Redevelopment already says they love the scope of the building." >> No, they won't. And it's and it and it's a one of these, right, where we don't know the money. We're told, "Don't worry about the money." >> Mhm. >> And then just just we have to do this size building and then the council's put in the

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opposite position of of Well, you guys are just really looking at the money redevelopment plan. >> No, we're looking at the ordinance, too. We vote on the ordinance. >> I know. It's just it's uh so as a new member who's never been and I know talking to the other Andy back

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originally redevelopment used to be more involved with the finances on earlier projects. >> We did it because and then we stopped doing that. >> The old burrow attorney was not familiar. I've done I do financial agreements a lot. So I'm I was comfortable looking at and doing it. They took it back. Mark is Mark is good

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at Mark Seo council knows those things. He knows the finance. That's why it went back that way. If you're if you're not comfortable and you want to wait till Glenn has looked at it, do it. That's that's fine. So, you can either do that or you can I'll I'll amend it to say the board's professionals have reviewed it

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and are of the opinion that uh it doesn't work with conventional taxes, >> which is not that is procedure. >> But but let's go back to one of the statements you made. One of the nos that was said on a different building was the council didn't like the setbacks and the heights and all those things. And no

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matter what you guys had said approved it or not and they did approve it by the way the board did send it over they said no to that. >> Um so that's where the council comes in. You know that's the they have to hear the money side of it and yes we will get a presentation from our burough attorney

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on why the finances work for everybody. But then there's the other side of that too where the building's too high. It's too many cars. We don't like it. We say no. So there is other options besides just the financials. Go. >> All right. So,

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>> I would ask that we revise the resolution to reflect that we >> which makes >> revise the resolution and let's also have an executive session. It'll be after the fact, but Glenn will explain give whatever explanation you want his review of why it doesn't. And he didn't say how long it should be, the numbers,

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but his his review of it not working. I think that's a great idea. >> There's a here, right? Like they could be saying, "Oh, we need five stories, right?" And >> they did and they did at one point. No. Glenn next next meeting Clint will we'll have an executive session and he'll go over finances. But I will when we and as

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Andy said when we didn't have an attorney who is knowledgeable in this some of the attorneys are this is complicated stuff. This is not easy stuff. And some of the burough attorneys were like you know I don't really have good knowledge on this. We would have those executive sessions where attorneys would come in and explain it. Not their attorneys our attorneys. So everybody

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got a feel. Now we're in a place that we have people that we feel confident know what they're talking about. But you can always ask to have that explain to you. It's not a problem. >> Yeah. And I know some municipalities [clears throat] have targets, right? They have targets in what they want to see in a pilot as far as, you know, rate

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of return and and and that kind of stuff. I don't know if we have those targets or if we have like >> specific goals that we're looking for in our I think you know you have an environmental I mean a a financial consultant. We do >> that looks at is it Phoenix advisors? >> Yes. >> So Phoenix looks at them and they'll go

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through >> since this is both this is a mixed use. It's not, you know, typically the the what they're shooting for an IRRa in a warehouse is different from a residential, different mixed use. So, yeah, they'll look at out of that. Yeah. What is what does the industry expect

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for their return? >> With the senior house, they came in, they want to build a building and they wanted a 2% pilot number. Okay? That's not what we normally do. We don't normally do a 2%. And they hed and said, "This is a county project. It's helping

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your residents. It's your vets, it's your seniors, and we did give in to the 2% of whatever the number was not home, >> right? >> But we did give into that because we did want that building to help our residents also. >> But a norm if if a normal this builder came in and said, I want the 2%. Our

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professional is going to say, "No way. We don't that's not how we do this. It's not going to be >> and Phoenix would go through that and it would go a long way for us to understand, okay, a hypothetical building, right? If if we were going to give up five stories, they would agree to give a 15% rate to the town, right?

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And that and what does that mean? Okay, that means the town's going to get x amount of dollars in in their pilot payment, right? And at a fourtory, the town gets less. And at a, you know, like that would help us to understand a little bit. I think what'll help you understand too is we in the past

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projects I always talk about the past projects we did not go lower than 10 but escalators every couple years 5 years or 10 years getting up to 15 or 18%. When the 30-year final is over so we start at 10 maybe we the beginning five years is

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a little light to get them started and then we catch up on the back end to make up the difference on that money. But what you're asking is and I don't know the answer to that to be honest. Does five stories make a difference and four stories? We're figuring all that out. I don't know if that plays into it, but I think what we look at from our experts

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is what is our end percentage that we're looking at all together. You know, starts at 10, ends at 15, five years at 16. You know, what is it we end up with and what percentage do we want to get? So, I can tell you the sweet spot for us is around 15%. When we're all said and done for all the years now, times have

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changed. Maybe it's hiring. I I don't know. This is going back a couple years. And that's 15% on their revenue >> on their revenue >> in their revenue for for the what they're taking in. >> Again, that's the problem I have with this whole thing. It's their audit that we have to go by. We don't do the audit.

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They do the audit, but it's, you know, they have a right to look at their record and they have a CPA that has to speak for people who at home who might be listening, right? It's that 15% or a cap, >> a lower cap of of what their property value. It's like a a growing percentage

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of what their property taxes would be under a normal tax scenario. >> We're never going to get less than the taxes we should have collect. >> Correct. >> It's always pretty much going to be no matter even if they don't get their goals will be they'll always be >> okay. Just

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>> Okay. >> But as you said, you should add that and if you want to have an executive session. >> No, I think you got an idea. >> Okay. >> So, the second resolution will also be I'm have to amend the second resolution. It's going to be read. It's not going to read that the um redevelopment agency

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has seen and reviewed the records. It's that they their consultants did and advise that it does not work under normal taxation. >> But the first one is the first >> just to clarify my question before. So we voted last week, right?

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But we went home, rethought a few things, and came back and said again, I'm just going to use the courtyard as an example. I don't want that courtyard. What's our next step? Is that something we have to discuss here? Do we just vote no on the resolution? Where where how

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does that work? >> If you want to raise it with the members, you can raise with members. What would happen is, you know, they the the member the the agency itself was okay with it. So, you're gonna run against, you know, this just a practical thing. You're going to run against other

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people that were okay with that, right? >> Want to rehash it >> to the extent that they don't like it, so what? But they you they're going to say, do you you said okay, >> that's but until they have an agreement until things are signed that nothing is final. Till things are all final is

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signed. I think what the confusion is and any vote is separate. You did not vote on anything. Okay. >> Okay. This is the vote, >> right? >> Okay. Some of the people come in because it cost them a lot of money to make the process happen, right? So, they want to try to get >> a yes before they can get

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>> like a provisionary yes, >> right? You know, I had another developer who insisted on wanting to know, would I get a yes? And I [clears throat] said, I can't tell you. >> You know, at the end of the day, you have to go through the boards and you have to go through the process. And he even hired an attorney to try to fight

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us to say, "I want to know yes before I put money in." And and he did quit. But I And that's where that's where that gray line is, right? Because that's the developer saying, "This could cost me 20 grand before I even do anything, right?" >> And then I'm told no, that's the chance you take if you want to build a

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building. That's what happens. >> But then, you know, I guess we have to also see like how many years has the Smith property been coming in? they become. >> Yeah. And so I mean >> everything you did you >> right and so we started out at you know

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something much different than than what we're looking at now. They have made concessions and um it's a better project I think than >> I would have said no first couple projects. >> Yeah I did say no to >> yeah I would have said no too. I think they really listen to you and this is a

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lot of the people that are not sitting here now but they they listen to what you asked. They reduced the size. They reduced the units. They they bought parking from the town so they didn't have to get all these easements and build garages and they kept the retail which when council the line was on that was a big fight for him. You're not going to build the building and have

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less retail. That's what they presented initially. Right. >> Um so I think they did try to work with us on a lot of most of the stuff they asked for. They didn't come in here and say I want to vote now. I want this >> and they they might have lost by the way and called for that. Right. So I I agree

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with what you're saying and that times while and they've been changing as they come, >> right? >> And and so I just want everyone to keep that in mind that it's it's a it's >> you know it seems to be um a better a much better project than than we initially had and you look at what's

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there. I mean I know that the ice cream station is a big concern that's open space that we're really concerned for there. If we want open space I think we need to within the town I think we need to start to plan for that. Um that's not something you know that we have a lot of

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jurisdiction over as as a board but maybe as as a planning opportunity within the town. We can within the town proper the uptown area we can plan for open space. It's just that >> and I think the other thing you have to and I you know I say this just because it's an honest way to say it. Say for

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some reason this project doesn't happen. Okay that doesn't mean he's going in and fixing up all this retail to make it look great and bring in great customers. Okay. We get stuck with junk sitting there and it's not rented. And I go back and a lot of you don't remember or maybe you do the Salvation Army building. You

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know, that was an eye swallow. You know, it was a bad building. And for people to complain, no, we missed the the building. We didn't miss the building. We want that. It's like the gas station. Nobody wants that chunky looking gas station sitting there. We want something better. So, um that's where this branch

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is, too. you know, he he'll tell you and this goes back to your concern. I can't rent the space that right now. I don't agree with that 100%. I think puts more time, energy, and money into it. Maybe it looks better. Maybe he does, but maybe it works to his advantage. Say, "I can't rent the place right now." Right?

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>> But at the end of the day, he could just say, "Okay, done. I'm just leaving it as it is, and I don't want to do it. >> We're playing a game of chicken." >> Right. >> And my my problem with that, though, is >> Yeah. It doesn't look good now. I'm 100% in agreement.

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Would this look better? [clears throat] Maybe. But is it what we want? Is just better our goal or is it something that we truly want to have in the town? >> Well, I can see >> and that's where I'm kind of suffering,

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>> right? And I and I hear that and and and this is a thing that every town is going, [laughter] by the way, every town is doing all this, right? But what ends up happening at the end of the day and I spoke to the the kids in camp today and we talked about this and I said, you know, a lot of kids, young kids are

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looking to buy a house. They can't afford to buy the house, but they want to stay in Pmpton Lakes. There's no choice for them to stay in Pompton Lakes right now. There's no real apartments that they can rent that they can get into. So, this opens that opportunity to bring those young families that we want to stay in town stay. And it also opens

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the opportunity for seniors who no longer want to take care of a house. Maybe they're in the south end in a flood zone and they're tired of getting flooded, but they love the town and they want to stay here. So, they sell their property, get what they can get for it, they move into a rental or they can be happy, everything's taken care of and they stay in town. That's where I come

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from. Besides the side effect of of rebuilding our downtown, right, that is a huge tradeoff. And I can tell you right now, the building across from Meridian, which we use for our our um um offices, is now renting that space back out. He's asking for double what he was

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asking for just because the building's going to open. So the square footage he's asking for has doubled just in that time and and and you know >> next to Tony's >> the what? >> The building next to Tony's. Is that what you're talking about? >> Our our uh >> the old um >> Oh, okay.

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>> Our wines. So that's a we we're coming out the grant, if you don't know, has run out and we're leaving that building. So he's now renting that building. He's asking for more money than he asked for when we rented it from him by a large margin and he's been getting a lot of

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offers. So, you know, that's the goal of this is to bring up the square footage on the retail so we get better establishments coming in. >> Right. Better. Right. Right. Okay. So, um do we have any

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Did you want to >> I mean I I still don't like a lot about the building. I'm going to be honest. Right. I still think four stories is is too tall for our what we're what this town

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look in my opinion should be right. Um I think Meridian is a complete eyesore. >> It it's it's a monstrosity. Um and I understand the point that you know right now we have an area of the ice

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cream station and yes again I grew up in this town. I remember pictures and everything of when that was actually a gas station and it's just deteriorating since then. >> But I feel like something better can be done that would still maintain the look

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and the feel of what we want in this town. not just let's put up this big high-rise, let's get some more apartments and you know kind of turn this into [laughter] like some people on social media are saying you know a Morristown or a Montlair or you know

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that that's not us. That's not our town. >> But on the other side of that, a lot of the new families moving in are very excited about they said it looks great. It makes our downtown look beautiful and it's going to bring in a lot of young people that want to live in our town, which is what we want to do it. That's

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what keeps a down a town thriving is families, young families. You know, people who are established, they have their house, they're probably not going anywhere. They're not selling their house either, right? So, [laughter] you know, that's where you are. So, if you want to keep growing, that's how you have to grow. And and I hear that. I mean, there's both sides of this. You

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know, there's there's two sides to that argument. I understand. >> I'm not saying there should I don't want to change the whole town into something, but if we don't do it, they're just going to go to the next Riverdale's doing it. Wayne's doing it. You know, everybody's doing it. they're just going to go to the next town over. So, we

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might as well get some profit from it. Make the apartments look better. Make our housing our downtown look better and and take advantage of it. And by the way, we we're better than most of those. I'll say that we're better than most of those towns because we have a great downtown. Some towns do not have the downtown that it would work because they

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have a store here and they have a store there. Wait, perfect example. Beautiful city spread out, but they have no downtown, right? So, they have no place to kind of do this. They can build a huge apartment build a year, but where are they shopping? Where they walk to, where they going to? So, you know, that's what people are driven to Palton Lakes because we have that,

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>> right? >> But I don't want sky rises on the whole thing, too. And if I had my choice, I wish everything was pushed back another 10 feet off the road. That would be great. I just can't do that. >> Yeah. >> All right. So, you got >> Okay. So, should we should we kind of do you want to say something, Matt? >> No, I I I listen, I agree with the

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sentiment, right? And >> I am struggling. I am I am I I would love to see this as a three threetory development, right? >> Um push back more. Um I >> you know I I have both thoughts rolling around in my head.

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>> Well, maybe this isn't the project we want and maybe this project doesn't happen and you know the ice cream station does go out and now it's just vacant and you know >> it's a struggle. I think what I what I would It's good. Sounds like we have

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engage engagement as a board. Um to me, we have way more power than we realize to [laughter] control and and direct where this is going and how this is going. And uh for me, I just want to understand how this all folds in

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together. Right? We've had proposals for 12tory, 14tory buildings, right? We have Meridian, which is a lot of units. um this is over over the the the zoning right at four stories instead of three. So I just want to understand how this

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all folds together with sewer allocation right with with parking right I don't want to be in a situation where it's a race for developers to get in to get the remaining development availability and this guy got four and now everybody else

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is locked in it too. Um, so I think that's a conversation we need to be having. And I and I know sewer allocation is is the next big hurdle, right? >> Right. That that that is >> but that's not we don't own the sewer. The town is independent. That is their

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concern and their problem to deal with. We have no say on that. >> Correct. But if we modify our redevelopment plan for a for a single building that wipes out the entire sewer allocation. >> But they okay this >> No, no. I'm saying let's let's say the next I'm not talking about this one, but let's I'm just talking about how we need

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to be thinking strategically. If the next development comes in and they say, "Hey, we're going to go to five stories and we're and we're doing a long section of a block and that wipes out the whole sewer allocation." >> They wouldn't say yes. They would I I I've spoken to the MUA where they're

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going to basically tell a big developer that comes in is you want to build in this town, you're going to have to figure out how you're going to build a new sewer plant to make that happen. because I can tell you the MUA has already told me they will not push this off on the residents to build a new

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plant for ondevelop. So if a new developer was to come in and not saying that's happening, but if someone was to come in, they're going to leave it up to the developer to figure out how he's going to get his sewer connections. They're not going to do an upcharge to every resident to make that happen. And they're pretty adamant about that. Uh so

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if that developer comes in, he would have to maybe talk to another town, build another plant or or do whatever he has to do. But we're not in the crisis. You know, we're at 82% I think is in percentage right now. There's more than 150 spaces for that. But you're right.

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At the end of the day, that is going to be an end result. There's going to be a stop 42, >> right? So there'll be a stop at some point and then the developers, whoever that is, will have to figure it out because we can't make it happen. and and you know I think to me Ford like I I can

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live with this project >> but this is like pushed right to and you know just just right to the limit and I'd be worried that if we started to go beyond this on any other projects we're going to quickly

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>> to me the best project we got was the Washington building >> same footprint same height >> improving what we had right >> no pilot you know Why? Because there's no proof that they they were in need of struggle. >> Right. >> Right. >> Yeah.

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>> There was only six units. So, >> right. >> It there's no can't prove that they need this. >> Yeah. >> So, it's just something that >> just [snorts] my two cents out there. >> And by the way, we'll see if that you know when that happens or if that >> right if that happens

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when you don't have a real developer involved in building and it's people trying to come up with money and and look at the surgeons, they're builders, >> right? >> Okay. and they don't want to build their own building because it's too crazy to do, right? So that's why they're selling their property.

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>> All right. So I think we're at the point. Does anybody else have any, you know, anyone else have any want to add to the discussion? All right. With that in mind, um do we want to is there a motion to go forward?

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Um, anybody want to >> be a motion to approve the resolution approving execution? >> You want to go over the list of things first or go with that? >> I can read out what you went through. >> I don't know if you do. >> Yes. We would add what we talked about which include would be essentially the

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resolution that I provided with the attached redevelopment agreement adding the following issues to confirm there'll be 10-ft sidewalks along Kolfax and Lakeside that the redeveloper will investigate uh providing on street

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parking spaces on Lakeside and provide our engineer with the review with the investigation for their review and that will also require uh an updated survey of the streets um to see if they can those spaces. Um a

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note that there'll they will uh require an easement from whatever public entity for the encroachment into the right of way for the roof and the overhang. Um modify the corner on uh Waniku and KFax

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so there will be a door to get into the retail on that that area. um and specify though I think it's in with the plans but that no entrance to the retail except from the street >> and and I I don't know if this is

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anywhere but this is real brick >> or this is peel and stick brick. >> We they said real brick. I believe they said real brick but we don't have that written down anywhere. They show a brick color and pattern in the plants, but I didn't see that they actually call out

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saw. >> They have sample >> thin brick. They have half brick. >> Thin brick. It's thin brick. >> Okay. So, but a real brick material. >> Thin brick says thin brick. >> Thin brick. Yeah. Thin brick is is like a third of the width of brick. It is real brick. It is just not peel and

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stick. >> No, no, no, no. Thin brick is a actually stick [laughter] is a problem. That's a good point. Yeah. >> Yeah. But the brick that's and again another good point I've noticed in all the projects we doing initially 10 years

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ago everybody said I want to use brick. Oh using brick or use brick and then they come back to us and say well we got this half brick that we're going to use that's just as sturdy as the brick but it's a lot cheaper. >> So we we've kind of did some research had engineers and and people look into it and they said it it is just as strong

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as the brick. It the new technology and the brick. A lot of people are using that brick, but there is no like some people want to put wood or or like plastic side, you know, we could say no to that, you know, that you guys do have that ability

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to pick color and style and all that stuff. >> Well, we want you want to put actual brick >> brick is it says brick >> provided that's actual brick, >> right? That's what was cited in the back

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that um Okay. So with those um so um with those conditions added is anyone willing to make a um >> motion to adopt >> motion to adopt to um the resolution and

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we are going to call that resolution PLRDA26-01. >> I'll make a motion to adopt the resolution. >> Okay. E is um making that motion. Anyone willing to second that emotion that that motion motion? >> I'll second it.

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>> Okay, second it. Um, now do I do a roll call? All in favor? >> Okay. >> Okay. >> So, Miss Novak, >> yes. >> Mr. Sinki, >> yes. >> Mr. >> Uh, Mr. Lavasi, >> no.

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>> Mr. Prea, >> yes. >> And Councilman Bennett, >> yes. And the second one on the oh the financial >> financial agreement and that comes with the amendment that it's going to reference that the board's professionals consultants have reviewed the records

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and recommend um that it would not be feasible in a normal tax uh situation. >> Okay. Okay. So um >> that amendment >> with that amendment that would be um anyone give um willing to make a motion for resolution? >> This is for the finance right?

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>> Okay. Yeah. This is financial. We're going to label this PLRDA26-2. >> O2. Okay. And Matt said he would make the U motion for that. >> Matt. >> Okay. Anyone willing to second that? >> Second. >> Mark will second the motion. Mark.

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>> Okay. And do we need a roll call for that? Okay. And a roll call, please. >> Okay. M [clears throat] Novak. >> Yes. >> Mr. Sinki. >> Yes. Uh, Mr. Lavasi >> abstain.

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>> And M. Um, Mr. Prea. >> Yes. >> Yes. And Councilman Vannon. >> Yes. >> Okay. Great. Um, we go to the >> All right. Do we have have any um new or

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unfinished business? You want to mention the uh meeting that we had about the question about the changes we're going to [laughter] have that talk. >> Oh, about the um >> Yeah, I can. >> Yeah. Yeah, you would.

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>> So, you know, we had picked people from two pieces people from every board, two councilmen, two people who board, two people from the redevelopment agency, a couple other residents to come up with just what uh Jason was talking about, some guidelines on how we want to move forward with redevelopment. and Kristen

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kind of put together a really nice group that we had a lot of discussion about and a lot of input from things and some of the examples we use are for example the flags we don't want flags uh we don't want flags have advertising on them talk about chasing lights colors there's going to be color schemes she

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put this into a whole presentation that the council is going to see be presented to on Wednesday if they vote yes it becomes their standard now for redevelopment it's a guide to address concerns from the board and from when people come into town on what we're

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looking for, types of lights, types of setbacks, >> design standards, all those things that we kind of go back and forth on a lot. It's a it doesn't mean they have to do it, but it's a guideline that explains what we're looking for. And usually if they don't go with what the boards are

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looking for, they're probably going to get voted no, right? It's a real guideline for them to kind of and and that was asked by this board actually years ago to bring that forward and it took some time first to put it all together but I think I assume it will

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pass on Wednesday and that will be under standard now. >> It makes our standards way clearer. Yes. >> Like it makes you can actually understand like oh this building is in this zone and these are the requirements and >> yes >> it's a lot better than the the ordinance right now is almost incomprehensible.

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So, >> she did a good job. >> Yeah, she did a very good job >> cleaning it up and making it clear. >> And I think it'll be nice for the um for the pro uh potential contractor to come in and >> get a better feel. >> And I have to remind you, we have new members when we put redevelopment

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together, we made them one mistake we made is instead of saying all these properties are in the development development [clears throat] zone at the time, we gave them a choice. >> So, some businesses said I'm it, other businesses said I'm out. But then

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redevelopment happens and they go, "Wait a minute, I want to be in." So now we have to redo the whole thing. We have to send it to the engineer. They have to do an evaluation to see if they're worthy to go into the redevelopment agency. And it became a problem. So this is what we if we had done this initially, this

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would have all fixed those problems and everybody would have been in. Just because you're in doesn't mean you have to redevelop. But if you're not in, that means you can't redevelop, right? So that's where the issue is. So we do have still some people that don't want to be in for whatever reason. choose not.

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>> Cool. And um so that's great. So that I'm really excited about that. So Wednesday they're gonna you're all >> we're presenting to the council. Okay. >> We'll vote on it Wednesday and then that's should be good. >> Okay. Good. And then we have uh Pmpton Smith Properties Pon Hole Eastman. Um is that something we want to talk about

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now? >> I don't think there's anything on that yet. Right. No, we've already this, you know, one of the conditions is that they have to go and get approval, right, for an easement um >> from the council. Yeah. And it's and it's also includes, as I said, the

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access to in order to pick up the garbage. That's what >> And by the way, that agreement that you that we have to work out will also be what they're going to pay for parking spot, but remember, they're buying spots from the pond. So, they'll be paying a monthly service charge for those spots to the town, which is separate from the agreement itself. Um, but you know, that

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could be, you know, $10,000 or $8,000 a month to the town to offset some of these costs. So, they're buying card spots. >> Okay. And so, um, I guess we'll open to public. There's nobody in the public, so I think we'll close. And, um, do I have

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a motion to >> second? Okay. >> And and Matt >> and probably no favor. [laughter] >> No. Did I hear it? >> Never. Never. No. No.

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>> All right. Thank you everybody. Good meeting. Okay.