with the number of students at that school uh both with parents dropping off kids um student drivers and then the buses that also access uh from the west gate we did add a fourth CSO that uh in late spring to perform a different function but um we can always look at re-evaluating that redeploying that person to the field as well moving forward dependent on what our approach ends up being so one of the misconceptions and I've dealt with this a few times especially I spoke to the parent group at um Spruce Creek Elementary a while back and this program was designed and the vice May I'll be able to tell you over a decade ago where they began utilizing csos but the idea behind it was for traffic flow and that's the reason you see them on some of those major roadways and the idea was that as traffic begins to back up um their job is to then move in help the the parents exit so that they can alleviate the congestion on the roadway I'll go back to Spruce Creek again if you notice the times are also correlate to the times that people are trying to get to work so if you live anywhere south of Taylor I know south of Taylor on Spruce Creek and back in that area and you're trying to get to I95 even with the csos in place directing traffic there's a bottleneck in front of the high school and it's going to take you some time I think I get the question I get a lot or you'll hear sometimes say is well the CSO showed up late to the school zone started at 700 and then they left early because it goes till 8 they're their target is to when traffic congestion is its worst from his uh historical knowledge we know that generally the beginning of the school zone traffic still flows until about 7:25 and then it runs consistent till about 745 750 and then the csos will move on to their next location um and as I mentioned this is what's been been in effect now for from what I can tell easily over a decade if not longer I just want to make sure I'm not missing anything at one point so I will look at this uh at one point obviously when we were looking at all of our staffing levels and what could we do to supplement our Patrol officers we started to look at you know what what how the csos are being utilized because by policy they can actually do other things that we don't use them for uh take reports they could be trained to handle crash investigations which then alleviates some of the patrol responsibilities I did look at doing that but we decided not to do it and we left them in place doing what they're doing and just work through our staffing issues as is but in doing so um one of the things we looked at is U and this was going back probably a year year and a half ago what does the rest of the county look like and at that time uh our Traffic Unit conducted a survey and we found that of all the public schools in Valia County only eight schools hand directed traffic at or near the school itself and of those eight schools for and the ones in Port Orange that we're already doing um so that that came out as part of as we started to look at those things so you know if moving forward that um you know we want to take a larger role with our csos obviously we would need to look at adding additional personnel and then the equipment that obviously goes with that um decision which would in you know include Vehicles equipment um and everything else that that goes with the position um in addition to those things uh our motor unit uh completes a biannual school zone compliance survey which is regulated by Florida State Statute and guided by Manual of uniform traffic control which you'll uh devices which you'll hear usually on the uh traffic engineering side and by us as frequently referred to as mut CD um which defines what needs to be in Cross school zones as far as signage um the crosswalks everything that's involved in to meet state requirements it doesn't mean anything over above it just does that school zone meet requirements so our motor unit does that every two years uh the last one was in 2022 uh we are getting ready actually um now that school is out uh we will be going out for our 2024 study which will be part of our overall evaluation uh as we as we're going to talk about tonight of looking at all the schools themselves uh again uh the purpose of the survey is to determine that everything within that school complies with State Statute and the mutcd um guidelines if they're not um our Traffic Unit compiles a report and sends it to whatever entity is responsible for that school zone some would be if it's a if it's a municipal Street would be the city of Port Orange if it's a County Road uh obviously to Valia County the only school we have in the state road is Port Orange elementary which is uh obviously state again this has come up as well and I know many are aware of this uh Port Orange does not have any crossing guards and we do not control uh where they are assigned throughout the county so it's not a Port Orange function I think that's another misconception and I think maybe there's confusion between the csos and crossing guards but we do not have a crossing guard function in Port Orange so as far as next steps uh the city manager I'm not going to step on his presentation but uh we are obviously looking at all of our uh all of our 10 schools in Port Orange um Traffic Unit is going to conduct our 2024 um school zone compliance survey uh and in that survey is where we also look into some of the uh issues that have come up in the past right as far as signage um and I'll use sugar mill again as an example there was back and forth on what we could and could not enforce because the signs say no parking right the no parking signs were on Schoolboard private property so one of the things a recommendation we can make is that we change those signs out to now say no no standing no stopping no parking which then gives us more recourse to where if somebody if if a parent stops them right away and is impeding traffic or stops in the crosswalk that allows us then to take enforcement action so those will be the types of things that the Traffic Unit will look for as they're evaluating each school zone um in addition to that um we're going to talk about the meetings that we have upcoming but I also want to I don't want people to think that there's been no dialogue we do have conversations uh with the school board uh with uh particularly myself and uh and Captain Todd Smith um for me he's been a great asset I can pick up a phone and he'll generally answer if not he calls me right back so there is communication back and forth we're able to to get qu questions answered um and even before we started talking about evaluating all the schools we'd already been in contact with with the school board uh in reference to Horizon Elementary who's looking at doing some changes uh to their parent drop off and maybe flipping their Bus Loop uh which is also needed right and that'll be part of our of our survey as well but those conversations were already happening prior to uh the unfortunate tragedy at Sugar Mills so um my goal is to keep those conversations and not have that momentum stop while we go ahead and start now to discuss what can can we do going forward so um I did have a meeting schedule tomorrow with the sheriff's office but uh as I mentioned I happen to be at a conference with uh Sheriff Chitwood and his staff and Captain Captain Smith uh just these last week so we were able to have some of those conversations already uh together one-on-one so we went ahead and canceled the meeting tomorrow because there's another meeting scheduled uh with all the powers at be next Thursday uh I think that's going to be um a better Avenue for discussion because you'll have representatives from the school board uh you'll have representatives from the city the police department from the sheriff's office at that particular meeting so I think that's the better Avenue to where we kick it off uh so that everyone's in the same room at the same time uh as we mentioned um so I mentioned the meeting that we have coming up uh we also have some safety meetings that that have been ongoing and there's other meetings in regards to crossing guards um that we attend on a regular basis I don't believe the next actual meeting for the the crossing guard committee is till sometime in July right I don't think a date has been set yet but we will obviously be at that one as well um so some of the things that I know the city manager is going to touch on this uh that you know we've been asked about you know is the CSO additional csos um I've had you know it been asked about our volunteers and policing our VIPs potentially being out there um is there some iteration where that potentially Works maybe uh I'm very cautious with our VIPs uh to put them in a situation and for me in a situation where you need Staffing and you need Staffing to be there I I I don't know that volunteerism is your first uh is your first Avenue honestly it's great if people want to do that um but you cannot expect them it's not their job uh and if things come up in their family you still have to have a backup plan for those situations um so that's that's my hesitancy and especially with our VIPs because we've had to where we we look we ask a lot of them already right you most of you are at that annual they put in thousands of hours of their own time for the city just in the special events that they that they handle already so to ask them to be present at all of our schools you know for several hours a day twice a day I just don't want to overload them um so that's that's my position with our VIPs but it's not something that can't cannot be discussed obviously we know that other schools there are School Personnel um that handle those types of of traffic control um so that's another discussion that could be had out there and and uh and also there are volunteer groups right unfortunately when you have a tragedy you see a lot of people want to step forward you know it's it takes an event like that but uh so if it's you know something to the effect that we help train you know people in traffic control I wouldn't put them in the roadway is obviously we don't want anyone to uh to be outstanding in the middle of the roadway that hasn't you know officially trained but as far as the sidewalk crosswalks themselves maybe that's something that could be approached um I tell you with with me you know you look at on the crime prevention side right we talk about crime prevention through environmental design you know what kind of uh what can you do to mitigate you know with your business with your home well I think this is an approach also with traffic and especially with the schools right if to me that's your best option personally is that if you can guarantee the safety of the students to get two and from and off two and from and off the campus without relying on a some type of personnel or Staffing or volunteer to be there that's your best option because then you don't have to worry about um whether an officer gets a critical incident call and gets pulled from that zone right because we still have a responsibility to respond to critical incidents you know our Patrol officers also double as as SWAT officers so they're get called out for a SWAT call out or if we're serving a search warrant so to guarantee that that person will be there is is say yes that's our goal but if a critical incident comes up if it's a life-saving incident realistically they're going to have to respond to it we cannot not respond to emergency calls for service um and then again there's you know other things as far as technology goes um that uh had brief conversations with but I just don't know what the appetite is and even at the school board um there's some stuff that activate automatically as far as uh um alerting people that someone's in a crosswalk there's now Florida passed just recently um the ability to um conduct uh speed enforcement in school zones specifically school zones uh through cameras uh I know there's some challenges already with that in state of Georgia uh so far it's been upheld uh but it is here in Florida now um there's companies it started off with just one but now I think they're up to three uh so it's another discussion obviously uh that's out there so I know the city manager has more I didn't want to uh I didn't want to um I know he has a whole presentation so uh that's a brief overview some of the things we've been discussing um do you have any questions can can you just uh touch on I appreciate all that information can you just touch the the I know you and I have have had some conversation about another school out on Williamson where we we're seeing a a building of a problem and and and people can't get on campus Because the school is maintaining the campus Gates shut and I know in correct me if I'm wrong but when we have inquired about this they're saying that that is now a policy because of the I believe it's the margerie stowman Douglas Act is that right on that correct and that they cannot open those Gates and so what's happening is is parents who who maybe need to be at work by 8 8:30 or what have you are wanting to drop kids off an hour early in some cases or more and and there's only so much stacking room out on Williamson Boulevard or any of these schools can you just kind of touch on that on what we know is the and is the if you can talk about it is the school board looking at options where because like that particular school out there has got a huge stacking area that's just not being utilized because the gate won't they're not open to the gate can just tou on that Chief correct um and so as you mentioned we saw something similar to what we're seeing at sugar mill out west several years ago um we had one incident since I've been here uh away from the school itself but also involving um Vehicles leaving uh the development and um children on bikes in the on the sidewalk I think in that instance we also crossing guard was requested but it didn't fit the criteria because it wasn't at a crosswalk and the accident did occur it was a driveway again but different situation um but to answer your question yes so Margery snowman Douglas changed a lot changed everything for school security it changed the SRO programs throughout the state uh requiring um security you know Above All Else and to have the you know armed school safety officer if not an SRO on campus so you do get that response right because they won't they can they and I'm not an expert right the stowman Douglas commission came out um after I stopped dealing with sro's but uh the thought process is that they cannot open the campus up to students if there's not a safety officer an armed safety officer there or an S uh so we have had that right where there that school in particular does have the ability to go ahead and move the at least as many vehicles off the roadway into the lane but uh we were told that we could not open the campus due to um not having a safety officer there until and I don't remember what their time frame was I think it's 30 minutes before the actual started School uh was was the response we got so that's another thing we can bring up uh in some of these discussions with uh in these meetings like you know what else can we do um as far as as those types of things uh with Sugar Mill uh I'm I'm I'm not sure honestly U where that's going to be part of the investigation but um but yes you are correct we've seen it there um and we've frequently been told that the Gates cannot be open until a certain time frame so okay because they have to staff it I think uh a lot of the fiscal plant things uh questions like that uh let's let Wayne get through his presentation because he's going to talk about that a little bit but after that uh I any questions Council has of both the chief and the city manager will allow that and we're certainly going to take public comment after that and uh after we take public comment and public comment is going to consist of of listening and then after we go through public comment it's going to come back to us to ask those questions of Staff as well so um do anybody have do we have anything else for the chief right now before Wayne starts I can wait okay we get it all on the table Mr city manager okay you've heard from the the chief that there's been a lot of conversation and Gathering of resources in the last week uh we thought it was really important to make sure that anybody that can bring a solution or assistance to this to the table was part of it so we've done as much talking to everybody as we can as he said we've got a meeting scheduled next week where the Sheriff County uh School Board all of our staffs are going to come together face to face to to have those conversations one of the things we wanted to do though is pull every bit of information we can together to make that meeting more meaningful in the meetings that will follow obviously that one meeting won't be the end of it uh I I kind of approach this there's a a form of budgeting that you might hear about called zerob based budgeting where at the beginning of the year you don't just start with what money you have and talk about what's new you go back to the beginning and talk about it from the beginning at the zero base do we really need these things I I think the approach to this situation warrants more of a zerob based analysis and I get that there are certain committees and certain roles and certain policies that well this is what we do but I think at a minimum we need to at least ask the question and you've heard a couple of these comments and I'll touch on as go through crossing guards typically cross across streets not on sidewalks we had a problem on a sidewalk maybe the question is is my understanding is that there were policies that that committee didn't put a crossing guard there because it was a sidewalk across a driveway and not crossing a street maybe we' readdress that policy at least ask the question is that a valid policy do we want to keep it so I I think you go back to the zero base and at least test every assumption is this the right way to do it ahead of time so so that's what we were trying to do was build enough information so we can start from zero instead of going and I get some of them are going to be the stowman Douglas things and the safety that may be a little bit harder to to get through but the policies on who does what and where at least ask that question and have somebody readdress it from the beginning because some of these committees have been around for decades and and so the roots of why those policies were built may not be clear to all of us today uh so on the next slide what the first thing we've done is we've gone in and put together and and the map is not it's not a intended to be a discussion PowerPoint graphic it's a digital image that we're using to actually do research so this is a Citywide map with insets of all 10 schools and you can pull them all out as digital images and we collect data we're going to keep putting it in there but the idea is when you're sitting in a room with a bunch of decision makers we have all this information in front of us to help make the decision so as we put all this together uh we looked at all the schools we went to the areas immediately adjacent to the school identified all the crossing areas touching the school property so there think in our 10 schools there's 64 Crossings about a little more than half are Crossings of roads and a little less than half are sidewalks going across driveways so we're looking at all the different ways that our students cross something where there might be a conflict with a vehicle we looked at the enrollment at the schools the traffic counts on the roads uh we've been looking at where we have safety signs where there are flashing lights where the school zones are what are the speed limits uh one of the other things that we put on this map and you can you can kind of see the purple lines that pop out and there's a couple of them that are that are green or orange I think they are on this map Orange so those are the indication of over the last decade or so the city's done about a million and a half dollars worth of projects on safety improvements on sidewalks uh to get people to the schools and what what step stands out of this one is that a lot of these aren't right at the schools they're there're several of them a pretty good distance away from the school the kids are still crossing roads and driveways a long way away from the actual School itself so I think it's important to look at the broader nature uh of of those and some of these are are fairly big projects that have made an impact but that's 10 years worth of work on sidewalks just to see that that amount of of work so we wanted to make sure that we were not missing anything when we were going through that uh as you heard from the chief there's there's two committees that are out there the school crossing evaluation committee that focuses on the location of crossing guards and then there's a community Traffic Safety team that's more of an accident based group group that be deals with solutions to areas where there have been problems with accidents so there's a a Florida Department of Transportation person who's an expert at that and a lot of law enforcement officials so these committees provide resources to help us with what might be the right thing to do as we go forward um I think I think I've covered on the map also had we did put the Stars where the community safety officers are so you can see which schools have them so we're we're trying to make this a a database that has everything we can possibly have on a school so when you're sit in a room with people it makes it easy to come up with Solutions so obviously the more input we get the stronger that data becomes uh to make better decisions the the next slide is a list of improvements it's it's not an exhaustive list uh I tried to group them by areas that that are easier to to understand them under whether it's a physical Improvement a Personnel Improvement or a policy Improvement it's obvious from this list some of them are easier to do quicker than others some will take more time I obviously know that there there's a whole lot of people that the answer is don't don't do government to this and bureaucratize it and take a year to do it some people are going to want some Immediate Solutions others are going to take a little more time I think that there's a way to mix that sort of what we did after the hurricane with the flooding there are certain things we could get out and do immediately and there's other things that we need to take more time to to work on so and so this is not an exhaustive list what we were trying to do is bring data and ideas to the table when we sit down with everybody and start working on it uh the next slide just shows how collaboration is so important so there's no one agency fully in charge U multiple different responsibilities when it comes to protecting our children on the streets and schools and our communities so it we all have to work together to solve these problems and so I just tried to list the areas where we where what would be ours what would be the school so as we start working on these Solutions why we need to be in a room together and not trying to solve it as independent entities uh and then at the bottom I I still think it's really important we were as we were digging through the history of all these committees and trying to find anything from the past that could help us go forward U I did see a number of schools that were doing Outreach and education on how to drive better and what right you know at some point you know in addition to all the things that we can do people still have to drive safer and take better care of of what they do when they're in those zones uh so in addition to everything we do we I do think it's important that we all come together and work on driver Behavior as part of of our solution so I I can answer questions as you want to go into more detail but I thought that was a a brief overview and then I can turn it back to council for any questions you have of me and the chief okay when we start with Reed um well I'll start with just questions for now save remarks for later um Chief um VIP program um obviously I can understand your why you'd have concerns about putting them in a role like that uh but more so can you just talk about what where that program is in terms of membership and where it used as we're looking at what we can do um I seem to recall that membership's really down in that volunteer program yeah membership is has been down as you know many of our uh many of our VIPs are are a little bit up there in age um God bless her you know we just celebrated uh Mary whitmire's 100th birthday she's been a VIP since since 1983 so uh we do have a number of of volunteers um that fall into that category I have to get you a number I wasn't expecting that question to be honest with you um but I get you an up to date we had had a couple of people be interested and step up for the program recently but not any kind anywhere near the numbers uh that we saw prior to co I think that that that particular um volunteer program did take a hit um during covid and as I said I mean granted we still are so thankful for the ones that we have um you saw the numbers thousands of hours of their own time um but we've have tried to use them um and the vice mayor and I have talked about that uh where we have tried to use them in more of a a capacity that would be similar to this has not worked out well uh to where the volunteers have wanted to step away uh both at the boat ramps um where you know quite frankly they were rude to our volunteers uh and over the years and I guess many many years ago uh they did try to look at them for maybe some kind of traffic control and then the same thing you know the driver not treating them with respect you know they're and uh putting us putting them in a dangerous situation which is not not what I want to do and I don't think it's the best option okay and then I want to make sure I wrote this stat down correctly um said only eight schools in count have hand directed traffic and four of those are in Port Orange and that's something we'll have to we'll have to um yes that was the so our Traffic Unit called around the various jurisdictions um out of 67 correct and I don't want to give a specific number to the but the number was up there close to from when I remember almost 70 schools uh and that was the response we got um eight eight different schools in all of Luchia County and we did it for four of them um and one of them wasn't actually at the school it was at an intersection that was close to the school okay um I think that's the only two questions I have right now tracon so I understand the the VIPs and the age in retirement and and I agree with you the boat ramp was brutal I wouldn't want to sit down there and listen to people down there right um and what they do for the city is is pretty remarkable for the thousands of hours that they they give my question is is for the community what's the difference on what a CSO is so people understand that position so quite frankly their main responsibility is that is is as I mentioned um traffic control and and to ensure that these areas that tend to become very congested uh are able to um quickly alleviate that congestion and that and when you say you know the quicker that they can get the school traffic under control and get the backup you know some of the stacking that we mentioned and then even at that peak hour right those Peak 20 30 minutes where everybody's arriving at the same time uh that's what they're there for is to get that roadway reopened and that's the that's the design of that Pro that program and as I said that's that's the design that's been in place for uh at least 15 10 to 15 years I don't know if they're civilian employes thece Department who we we do train and provide a vehicle to whereas the VIPs we give them Vehicles they don't get to take them they want assignment sometimes they don't but they're volunteers unpaid and they the csos are the same and I should have mentioned that that's correct um they are they are civilians they are not sworn law enforcement the training is much shorter obviously uh so we can get a a CSO up and running in a fair amount of time uh they also do um you'll see they're always in pict pickup trucks uh part of the reason for that is if they help to respond to a traffic homicide uh or some type of serious injury accident or even just an accident that's tying up the roadways they're able to run back to the station utilize the pickup trucks uh to pick up cones to assist the Traffic Unit if they need to get barricades uh remove bicycles from the roadway so they serve those functions I'll tell you part of the reason I looked at what they do um and it is in our policy as I mentioned so one of the uh prior Chiefs either the galdi or manahan had looked at how you could utilize them differently uh I'll tell you at my former agency and granted we were much larger I had over 30 csos but we they did not direct traffic unless there was at an accident scene or out in a roadway their primary function was to respond for certain types of calls for service to handle accident reports with the idea that that then alleviate that then um frees up the patrol officers to respond to emergency calls uh so this situation is unique to me but to answer your questions the majority overwhelming majority of what they do both in the morning and afternoons is traffic control okay my my look is is is we're limited on staff as it is for sworn officers but if we could Elevate the CSO to take some of those positions at the school Lings and cross it would be uh beneficial for you if I'm gathering that right to be able to do that job so you're not taking away from law enforcement handling the other tasks at hand um I think uh potentially we we live in a county of a lot of people moving here a lot of retirees that are law enforcement that are retired and I can't imagine that a few of them still don't want to serve in a smaller capacity of what they used to do so it might be something as how how can we target to be able to bring more csos into the department to help with the school issues and other things as well yeah okay you got all your questions actually to follow up on that so do you know how many csos we have currently in the department we only have the three that are out there directing traffic we brought a fourth as I mentioned uh late spring with the idea that they could handle maybe some of those nonviolent no suspect involved reports right um and there's no so there's no vacancies there there's no vacancies yeah we added that one filled it right away thank you you good I'm good for now because we're asking questions to both the chief and the city manager just making sure okay Scott Chief the uh we real quick just to make a clarification because I want to make sure we're all in same music so the the the uh the history of the VIPs that the chief is referring to I can speak to back in the 80s in the early 90s the VIPs would help out with some traffic control at theol school zones they also did that uh to some degree at the boat launch facility and and other places around the the city and as the chief was trying to put it very politely what happens is these are pure volunteers and the concept of that program was people who wanted to volunteer that could help with a lot of administrative task and some task out in the community when they could help in non-law enforcement related positions and and they've been very very effective however when it came to implementing them and putting them in traffic control type duties and functions what what they found was the same thing that a lot of our Law Enforcement Officers experience is people don't like to be told what to do they don't like the direction they they were constantly being bered and rude um and and they they came to the chief of police back in that day which was Bob Ford and they basically said we like to volunteer for the city but we need to be able to pick and choose what comfortable doing and this isn't it and we're not doing that anymore and so the volunteers themselves said what you got to find another source for this because we're not going to do that anymore that that evolved early into us taking what we used to refer to as our Animal Control Officers and actually having them trained to meet State qualifications so that they could then start assisting with traffic control responsibilities which would free up up some of like the motor officers that could actually do traffic enforcement um and so I and then over the time what happened is is the ACO what we used to refer to as an animal control officer ACO evolved into a CSO position and the IDE what we found there was is is there were a lot of task that would take our Law Enforcement Officers off the street that were non-law enforcement task related for example somebody calls us and up and says hey I was walking the park and there's two bicycles laying in the pond we don't need a police officer to leave their Zone to go pick up bicycles so we would have csos and they would go do that uh like the chief mentioned if they had a bad crash or a crime scene and an additional equipment would need to be brought to those scenes the csos were were equipped and set up to do that and then as the evolution of an additional school and growth in the region of our County it with more traffic the csos then became more and more utilized for Traffic Control um in a lot of our on our areas um and so that I just wanted to clarify that the csos do direct traffic in the schools currently and that's kind of how that program evolved um Chief um you spoke on the on the the uh the review at Silver Sands that there was a previous review as a which was requested to see if a crossing a county crossing guard could be established at that location did is am I right there was a review or was not a review I think there was a conversation whether that was even possible because it wasn't uh and it wasn't Silver Sands it was uh it was out west coming out of Water's Edge area um it wasn't near the school it wasn't uh crossing the driveway at the school it was literally in the area of the wat's edge uh entryway and I think was where we were told it's not going to that we would we would not be getting AC crossing the basically the feedback was is that just unless they're crossing streets correct generally what you'll see and this is from my experience I'm not sure completely how the Sheriff's Office does it uh generally you'll see them um either at an intersection itself or on a and again I'll go I'll go um I'll go back to just you know our here just right here in our own city um at Spruce Creek Elementary right you have the FIV lane roadway you have a high speeded coming in so there's two crossing guards at that location to get them across from North and South as they're coming into the school uh where you'll see both guards stop traffic in both directions uh I personally have not seen crossing guards in a situation such as Sugar Mill uh but again that's just from my experience prior agency uh so I'm not sure how they deploy them here but generally that's where you'll see them and then you know an intersection you know say if they had to do one at near Port Port Orange elementary where you're dealing with d lton and we know the type of vehicle traffic that we have on that State Road uh I you I wouldn't be surprised if you needed four crossing guards if you head across at a certain section just to completely ensure the vehicles are going to stop and is the is the is the county crossing guard program still only being utilized for elementary schools uh that I'm not aware of okay I know that's in past my experience maybe in your in in the next meeting if you could just I'll verif give me confirmation what I would like to have confirmation on is is is that the case number one and number two to was there an actual committee review for for Sugar Mill previously in this geographic area of of Charles Street that's that I believe there was uh last year okay um it was submitted to the committee uh we do have the data on that and the committee did not approve putting a Crossing card there okay in 2023 okay that's what that actually what I wanted to confirm was that it was reviewed by the county committee and there was a denial correct and then my experience again uh General you don't have crossing guards at the middle schools and definitely not at the high schools which does cause a problem because of the time difference between the start start and end times of the schools uh because that was always a concern even in South Florida is to well you know my middle school you left the school zone and my middle school student hasn't crossed the roadway yet so uh but I will verify that that's the case here as well you have other equations like the later start times for high schools now the fact that the sheriff uh I think he said he's 25 crossing guards short now can't hire there are other difficulties U of course those are conversations Wayne and the chief are going to have in regards to the hardest part here is that so much of what we've tried to provide is based on what's been asked for what we've been told is needed and things like that and I think this Council will agree that moving forward our standard is not to provide the minimum of what's being asked for but to set the standard instead and I think the biggest challenge we have is we've seen when a lot of people in charge us School District Sheriff's Department City County State when you have so many people in charge nobody is and we need to take charge of this and I know that there are almost 70 school zones in this County um these the 10 that we can have some influence over Scott did you have any more questions no that's any other questions is okay coming back I want to get all the questions answered up here uh and then we'll go to the we'll go to the audience we'll get their comments and then we'll come back to uh to then we will come back to us go ahead Tracy uh Chief dealing with the arget stman Douglas policy been told that one of the key elements to that is dealing with security is that there's only two access points allowed coming and going at any school so you get a drop off for buses for elementary schools and then a drop off for parents pickups and things of that nature am I correct on that one uh I'd have to refer back to the stowman Douglas report but yes that those were the some of the discussions as far as entry onto the school campus itself and then there was the discussion of single points of entry into the actual School itself um so was you did have you did have a separate access point for bus Loops but to the school itself as far as entry into the physical building those were single point access points okay one of the things that you you said and and I went out there yesterday and did a walk not a not an easy thing by any stretch of the imagination and took a look at it and one of the things you you said was the environmental design to mitigate um sitting with Wayne and and talking to him with it uh yesterday and and having the discussion on it I know that the city can only do x amount until we get to County property and then it's up to the county to go from there but where I'm seeing um the crosswalk going in front of the exit on the west side where that crosswalk is the sidewalk goes into the school so any child that has crossed major intersection or anything with school guards is on that sidewalk they would walk down to that sidewalk and enter the school right there without having to go across a crosswalk unfortunately we we have a senseless tragedy that the child has to go from the East side across the crosswalk when the incident happened my question I mean it's to me being a simple person looking at things simply is looking at this crosswalk and going why are we sending any kids across a crosswalk when all we have to do is on the east side is put another 4 foot sidewalk to go down into the school where the gate is so we have two sidewalks one on the east side and one on the west side so they never have to go across that crosswalk at all then they are now inside the school correct to go forward from there um is my thinking wrong no no and that's one of the suggestions even our traffic Sergeant has and again you know we can make recommendations um on what we think is the safest route possible but you are correct and now is an opportune time right because we're talking about some of the changes that are going to occur with the uh right turn lane entering into the school correct so while we're you know in that phase now and granted I realize we're that down that road but potentially that yes that that m Ates anyone having to cross from east to west it will it will have to have them cross through the parent Loop but that'll be farther into the campus to where potentially School Personnel will be on hand or the guardian or the school SEC we would then have Personnel to be able to take care of the child at that point where we're out front we're trying to find people correct and and and I'm not saying that it's not a budgetary thing I'm saying it shouldn't have to be done to begin with it's it's pouring a concrete sidewalk to mitigate it and that is one of the suggestions um obviously we were going to bring up we've talked we've mentioned it as well um traffic units mentioned that uh you know in addition to some other things you know to what's option two what's option three if if that's not if that's not feasible because I I will tell you this you know we we think we have a solution like that and then we don't think about everything that planning has to deal with and when it comes to Ada requirements and distance and things that just aren't in my wheelhouse you know we look at something and go hey if you do this this is going to work without thinking of what the unintended consequences are right you know if we make everybody go right well then that's going to cause an issue with these two crosswalks and potentially tie up traffic again so it's all of those things and having the people in the room that have the expertise you know we I am by no means an expert in all of those things and and those are the things that we need the other people in the room to say okay that's that might work except and this is what also has to happen where the conversation is so important because those physical improvements to the to the school campus have to come from the school district they we don't own the schools obviously it's got to come from them but our part is to know suggest know and know what's coming there so that we can react and provide the service accordingly correct I say I don't want to be the the error of talking about other entities yeah well but maybe the city pours the concrete footer up to them and go we're prepared now continue it I will say the existing design as it is is going to push some that crosswalk uh potentially farther back away from the roadway uh which may allow for some other design features that we're not thinking of um that's going to occur anyway just the way the road's going to turn and where that crosswalk will now be located will be farther away from the roadway does that give enough you know even more reaction time for parents you know that are pulling in and out of that lot so those are also things that are that'll come out of the design feature in the planning but um we can still P correct to shorten that acceleration Lane which it would do because you there's less time to accelerate because You' be you'd be closing that Gap there because when you come around that curb at that point it's a straightaway uh anything you can do to shorten that I don't know there again I'm not a traffic engineer but right these these are questions we all have to ask and I think I just want to come in on Tracy that suggestion is actually something I went down and looked at myself because the I had heard you know the idea of you know you you parallel the entryway and then you create a c a pedestrian bicyclist crosswalk on the school campus farther inside that gate area and I definitely think that is warranted to really take a strong look at but we need to keep in mind that you're still having having children cross in front of the same exact cars they're just doing it 25 or 30 or however far in and that there's still an element there that has to be addressed the other thing that when I saw that I guess maybe my little bit of a background in traffic is that as you got cars that are coming in and off of Charles Street and they're making those turns into the school it would need to be far enough onto the campus so that they could realize okay there's a a teacher or coach or administrator that has stepped out in front of cars to stop cars to let kids cross because if not you're just what you're going to have is cars turning in and immediately running into the back of each other so all of that stuff definitely would would need to be reviewed but I like the idea and and and the design there there is some pretty good amount of distance and and where the where the students would be going to get to the bike racks and and actually be on campus I think you could push that in there a little farther I would I would my my again I'm not a traffic engineer but I like the idea a lot I just think that it would need to be studied much much farther into campus which was not a big which wouldn't be a big deal more concrete but if it saves another life it's worth every dime so no no problem there at all but I like the idea for sure so there's already a crosswalk there I was just getting ready to say as somebody drops drops off and picks up my son through that Loop um right now there are several parking spaces and there is a crosswalk there and somebody does step out to man it when somebody comes to it right yeah and and and they do not like when parents try to walk across there without having someone looking uh looking on there so I mean the idea has Merit but they already have that crosswalk God probably 200 feet it feels like at least you can add features to it yeah and you could add lights you know like there's a lot of things you could do in there once they're on that property and I've got to believe that right now they're more than willing to talk about a lot of things yeah um I have another question uh this one this is actually for Wayne Wayne so this school crossing evaluation committee that you mentioned so talking about getting experts in the room um do we know who that's comprised of do we know how people get appointed to that what their qualifications are when do they meet like what are the details of that it apparently goes back into the 80s at the County uh Mike Springer and I spent a couple of days trying to research its history uh it wasn't easy to find information information on we found people who manage it today and they were very Cooperative immediately told us the next meeting is coming up in July you're welcome to ATT 10 we've even been told feel free to come talk about this so but its history and how it came about it appears to be an 80s era um when the sheriff was not a was not a a charter officer but a worked for the county and they have there was a County Traffic engineer there's a civilian a citizen member uh there's I think law enforcement I don't you remember the list of them we we weren't able to find what like our environmental Advisory Board we can go on the website and look up here's our committee the county has a whole list of all the Committees that they have on their website and I couldn't find that on the website to look into so I think just because of its history and how long ago it goes back but it it appears to be a series of people who have certain specific skills and and also some residents or parents so that you get a broader range of of information but I I do not know specifically we were not able to find that through through a pretty good amount of research okay CU but we know they meet again in July we do and we will be there and that's how we'll get the answers to the questions of their history and role and like I said even if even if the role isn't that I think we at least say do you want to think about a different role should we do that whoever whoever created them uh may want to broaden their scope or their role given these these situ I mean I don't think anything's off the table trying to figure out a solution here and and even if they won't or or cannot we can still at least ask people who've been spending 40 years providing advice on safety any ideas for us to do better Solutions plural yeah um one thing that uh Wayne we talked about is this process and it'll continue to be ongoing I I want to make sure that is on the agenda for a council meeting uh our first council meeting in August to have another discussion uh after you've had those discussions with the district school district after you've had those discussions with crossing guard I want to hear where we're at for our part and certainly if there are things that need action from us in the meantime we we can take care that but I also want people from the public uh to be able to come here before us and be able to hear what we've done since then and what we've done in conjunction with others and if we have information from uh based on what others are planning to do we can share that as well so that everybody's not getting it bits and pieces from everybody but uh uh certainly the more the better even if it's not just ours okay any other questions of the chief or or the city manager let's go to the public okay this is what we're going to do anybody wants to speak you've got three minutes when you come up just identify yourself where you live uh we're not going to interact with you we're going to listen this way that nobody says I didn't get my time or or anything like that after we we're going to be taking notes we're going to be going through all of that uh but we're not done discussing this we're going to be uh come back to us and be able to react uh and hopefully get you guys some answers because I know that we've asked a lot of questions up here I hope we've got some of the answers for you but uh we want to hear from you what other questions you have uh it's got a lot of arms and legs to it it's a very fluid information uh situ ation so uh as of right now anybody care to speak to the item yes come on up thank you my name is Mark Dickson address exempt for former law enforcement I live on Herbert Street um there's a lot of moms in here that are probably going to be upset about this one of them actually witnessed me almost getting hit by a car a day and a half after two days after at that same intersection um right before that officer gray was on his phone sitting on his motorcycle texting or doing something on his phone I simp asked him just to put his lights on and turn those on to be more visible I think that's what a lot of these parents wanted from all of the times that they've emailed you and clearly said that we just want someone down there to be more visible uh he was defiant in it uh same thing when they're down at Silver Sands why don't you turn your lights on to have some preemptive stoppage of these people coming in in their school zone to slow them down you guys don't get 50% of the tickets anymore and it's it's just not the way protect the kids keep them there turn their lights on but officer gray just wouldn't do that that and when I almost got hit someone took a photo of it he didn't even bother to say anything didn't stop lady was over the Stop Bar if you're not going to be down there mayor if you can just guide the chief to have them always have their lights on because it's no longer this let's ticket them and get them anymore please okay thank you Mark thank you who's next I'm Aaron borof I live in city of Port Orange um I just have a few things on going read so try not get the entry at our school needs a traffic opop we used to have one we were told we got it taken away um when parents would go and park on the right side where you guys are saying there's a crosswalk while parents would park there walk their kids across effectively stop traffic two additional times and then back up into that traffic and stop it again so that's why we were told the traffic got cop got taken away because the school would not remove those parking spots but they didn't have the room for additional parking every car enters at that Crossing is not protected along with it being one of the busiest student Crossings they're also building a new community right behind our school and we believe that will add additional student Crossings I ask that you as city leaders work with the county and schools to get it implemented and quickly we ask that the crossing be protected it was even reviewed by the sheriff's crossing guard committee and deemed not necessary to have a guard there I ask that we urgently find a solution for all elementary schools prior to the start of next school year and have a plan of of action implemented and in place I find it scary when a Port Orange Police Officer informed me that the entrance at to Horizon is even worse than ours and also unguarded we have members of our police force parents that see it every day and we have safety measurements in place for what seems like less hazardous areas but yet these ones that seem most hazardous continue to go unprotected I would also like city planning to evaluate all sidewalks in the neighborhood surrounding Sugar Mill you guys showed sidewalks that were improved they're quite a bit of distance from the school there are several right by the school if you go down Old sugarm Mill Road it's intermittent there's a sidewalk then there's not and then you get the Sugar Mill Gardens there's no sidewalk it's a blind Corner kids are crossing that it's dangerous please reevaluate where csos are located as stated by the police chief they are prioritized to normally High a traffic areas however like I just said I think I feel like our infrastructure around the school is significantly less than those other higher traffic areas which makes it more dangerous I also understand that city is not in control of every aspect of the safety standards we want to implement and as you guys have touched on as already um but I mean some is County Crossing cards some is on school grounds some is with City police but you guys communicate and plan with all other parties and like you said you going to have those meetings I just ask that we control and ask that everyone gets on the same page urgently and action is taken to prevent additional preventable tragedies thank you who's next hi I'm Stephanie Kathy I live in salty Tona on the Port Orange Line um I am the parent of a child at sugma elementary as well as a PTA president I'm not here to place blame or to point fingers I'm here to ask you all for help when my son was hit by a car outside of Sugar Mill less than two years ago and I'm sure you're all tired of hearing about it um I've been on the fierce mission to increase safety outside of the school I do not believe this falls on any one agency I think collectively we' failed the city the County Sheriff's Department Port Orange Police school board and yes parents have all failed trust me when I say that I see the aggression that comes out of some parents that the parent pick up drop off which is one of the main reasons I push for consistent police presence at the school not only for speeding but most especially in terms of traffic control I'm not telling any of you how to do your job I don't know how to do your job I am confident that if all of these agencies come together and sit in a room and open-mindedly discuss the issues we can figure out Solutions we are if we are better off tomorrow than we are today or yesterday then that's a step in the right direction I know there may not ever be a permanent solution accidents happen people get distracted we now see tragedies do happen but it is my heartfelt belief that this one could have been avoided if the constant attempts made by myself to bring attention to the kids biking and walking to school were taking seriously guys I got so lucky I got so lucky it was a matter of seconds before my kid was this kid seconds and I begged you all I begged all of of you for help I have printed out 500 pages of emails with many of you attached him attached as well asking for help and it went fell on De ears I lost my place because I just got emotional when I pushed the city to request crossing guard at the school the crossing guard committee conducted an investigation or survey to see if we qualified for a Crossing guarden early 2023 and it was decided that by the committee it was not necessary that it was a police Enforcement issue and a parent issue again with pointing fingers when lenon was hit I was told it was school property then City but because it was County Schools I need to talk to the sheriff for a long time no one listened to me there was never any real effort for a solution I keep getting pushed off I'm asking the city to put pressure on the chief of police who by the way based on your own statement seems to think that a 5-year-old riding his bike to school with his dad who stopped by the crosswalk and started make and made sure everyone was not moving looked left and right before slowly entering the crosswalk before a girl hit her gas throwing throwing him into oncoming traffic that it was potentially his fault he was partially to blame I'm here to say no he's not he's not to blame he was five stopped blaming my son and it didn't take a tragedy like this to get you guys to step up I've been asking for help for two years this is unacceptable I'm trying not to get emotional I'm asking you guys to tell the chief of police for no tolerance I remember back in the day when it was welcome to Port Orange here's your traffic ticket we don't have that anymore it used to be a big joke but now it seems that things are just getting pushed aside I'm going to ask the school that if they find parents driving hazardously in the schools they'll kick them out I'm going to ask the county to incentivize crossing guards I have ideas I've been thinking about this for years a sidewalk thing was also an idea that I had I'm running out of time I'm just asking if you to listen I'm tired of begging this kid didn't have to die and it was preventable thank you hey Stephanie Stephanie give me a favor turn around I want everybody to see your shirt okay thank you who's next hi my name is Sher Peterson I live in Port Orange I won't take too much time they basically have said everything that I'm thinking I just want to make sure that while we're having these discussions these conversations in the room that we're thinking that we're restoring the confidence in these children because they don't have confidence in the adults of the room right now none of them my two included so that should be our most important step two I want to make sure that the visibility of the information that's being discussed and knowed and Y and and everything that you guys are coming up with ideas which I appreciate the fact that everybody's coming to the room I want that information disseminated the community is here to help I'm here to help I want to be here to help this should never have happened so how can we all work together to come up with the answer the solution as opposed to this is not my responsibility this is so and so's responsibility they'll tell you what they can do what they can't do they'll tell you what you are allowed to do as a volunteer here as a person as a parent in the in the front of the school I think it's important that everybody comes together puts that information out there and tells us what what we're allowed to do what we can't do and I that's my time thank you thank you thank you who else another good shirt um everybody else has pretty much said what I already have to say but my name is Audie Brooks um I live in Port Orange my daughter is a fourth grader at Sugar Mill Elementary and she happened to that Friday walk by and see before First Responders even got there a little girl and she knew she was able to identify her by her pink backpack so I want that image to sit with everybody who has the authority to make decisions because I can't take that away from my 10-year-old and she should have never had seen that it was so preventable I have been on Stephanie side since her son got hit almost two years ago actively trying to email anybody that would listen I emailed in April April 13th of 2023 I spoke to Gregory gaver gaver um I was told he was a uh traffic supervisor um I pretty much got the brush off on that as well um it was very disappointed it basically got no where I was told we we have five motor officers total and on Mondays and Fridays we only have three I don't know the solution either again that's y'all's job everyone's job County's job but something needs to be done before August again I need to know that my child is not going to walk by and see what she saw I can't take that back now but we can't go backwards we can go forward and we need to move forward at a quicker Pace than meetings are in two weeks meetings are in four weeks we need to find a solution so that out of the three different ways that children get inside sug Elementary if there's only two crossing guards allowed one needs to be in the front of the school where everybody is entering the school our kids need to get to school safely and I don't think anyone in this room would disagree with me that there is nothing more important than our children's safety thank you thank you who else hi I'm Aaron Warwick um my daughter goes to sugar or she did from kindergarten to 5ifth she just graduated fortunately she had that lucky lucky thing these days um I just want to say first off that I'm very sorry I'm very sorry we dropped the ball I'm good friends with Stephanie and I didn't Advocate hard enough when lenon got hit I sat out front on my bicycle with Mike and try to stop people from parking there and that wasn't good enough but I stopped after that I didn't Advocate hard enough and she did and she still got the same response the same response the same response it was just shirking of blame from city council to the Port Orange Police to L County School boards uh I just want to ask that we make sure starting sugar Mills next school year even though my daughter's not going to go there that there will be an officer there directing traffic every day because when my daughter started going there there was an officer that directed traffic and it was a lot better than it is now and now we have Lenin's accident and now pochelon and everyone knows that everyone knew this would happen cuz Stephanie stated it I think every single parent that went there every day was on edge so I just want to say please please make sure that there is a police officer there directing traffic next school year and can we all say we're sorry for what happened instead of just passing off the blame thank you thank [Applause] you who else I'm going to give it a second in case somebody's on the fence yep my name is Ray Hill I am a parent of two children at Sugar Mill Elementary um when everything happened on the 24th I started a petition at change.org and the petition is asking for an officer to be present at that entrance way um amongst other things like signs a raced crosswalk uh things to help prevent this um I did want to point out that I did reach out to the mayor back in October of 2023 it wasn't even 3 4 months after my kids started going there that I started to notice how dangerous it was we are within walking distance and I will not let my kids walk I will not let them ride their bikes because I could see it from the very beginning of the school year that it was just going to be too dangerous and that there's not enough safety precautions put in place for these kids to get there safely and I also with Stephanie have tried to voice this before this ever happened and like she said it fell on death ears and now this has occurred so we just want the city of Port Orange to to hear our please because now this has happened and it could have been prevented and um our petition we were trying to go for 2500 we are almost at 3,000 signatures and I can have that to you guys if you want it or anything of the sorts but that was all we're asking thank you thank you thank you right who else uh give everybody one more chance did we get everybody okay back to council comments and questions based on what we've heard tonight from everyone Reed why don't you start well it's a very interesting position I'm in because I sit on both sides of this table uh I said my son's a first grader he going to second grade and me and my wife both have driven through there a lot and uh you know I I I share Stephanie's feelings that she just was speaking about what what frustrates me the most both as a parent and as a sitting council member is this inner government Communication Breakdown um when she reached out to me about lenning getting hit you know it it was one of these things where I thought it was taken care of I thought someone else was going to do something and the second time when she came back to me we we did do something we reached out and Don your wife Anita helped to to move that along but the big thing for me that from from tonight that is of the most concern both like I said as as a parent and as someone who is a decision maker on this Das is how do we figure out to make sure all the information is on the table and that all the voices are being heard and that we're getting information from experts to make good decisions you know know um I would love to know more about why this uh School uh Crossing evaluation committee wh why did they turn down that intersection to have a crossing guard um you know I'm left with more questions than answers and unfortunately um right now they not many of them are for our staff you know I've already asked my questions of our staff and and I know that we're going to take initiative on this to see what can be done um I'm trying to make sure this is trying to think how I want to phrase this exactly but um as a as a kid I was a big D earn heart fan uh follow me for a second here but when he passed away in turned four nasar changed everything all of a sudden there was there was no money that was too much to spend there was no idea too silly it was let's make the wall softer let's put these devices on drivers let's do this let's do that let's do this um I would urge everybody to make sure that we exhaust all of our thoughts all of our ideas all of our efforts and get all the people in the room at the same time so that we can take effective action going forward Tracy so it's a I have to agree with councilman fley the senselessness of how we have so many hands trying to take care of our children and something gets unfortunately slipped through and it happens to a child it it just should never happen um I live in District Two which is right down the street from Horizons and I had the pleasure of taking both of my kids early morning because my wife works I did in the early morning to elementary school they're now 21 and 19 so it's been a while since I've had to go down there to thee elementaries and and watch that process but it hasn't changed and I know that um we try to protect as much as we can but at the same time it's not just one single fault that can fix this problem I agree with Reed that in this process we need to have everything collectively together fast one of the challenges that we have at hand is speed here to try to get this process taken care of to protect our children school starts back in August now if you know anything in government and you've watched government and the year that I've been in government that process process is hard we need y'all's opinions and emails sent to the powers to be to speed this process up I understand saying that how we go forward with this is unfortunately it is County we need the county to come to the city or vice versa us going to them to sit down for us to try to find the best Solutions but it might not just be one solution this is going to be multiple pieces to be able to take care and protect our children saying that the environmental side of what we talked about with sidewalks that's one piece of it I know for a fact that with my youngest growing up that even if there was a sidewalk for him to take to protect himself he's a standard boy he's going to go across the crosswalk because he just going to furiate that so we still need even though we have those sidewalks going into the school to protect them we're still going to need either a CSO or a school crossing guard or somebody to stop the one child so we're not having the one child to pay the price of what we're talking about today so thank you for coming out and not um let me change that thank you for coming out and allowing us to hear the concerns that we already know but hear the concerns so we can go forward to try to get a fix or the best way we can with multiple solutions for this and I I I can't stress it enough that um there was a lot of Anguish uh that day with me and having to go out there after hours and uh you know and being out there um it is it is not taken lightly no life should be taken lightly and uh hopefully that we can with Council and the city manager and staff we can come to a solution that is quick and Rapid with the county to be able to handle this Scott one thing that you have is a unique viewpoint is retired law enforcement and having had your your wife work there and your kids go there as well you've seen it what it was you've seen things grow around there and uh I know you've probably got quite a quite a bit to share and I know that you've proba done a lot of that behind the scenes as well and I appreciate that so I think as we as we as we try I think the end goal here is make it better make it sough right do something do anything do something but you got to start you got to move forward right so I I I feel very confident that everybody's on that page um as we do that I think it's really important that we always remember historically how did something get to where it's at today right so I I like the mayor's talking about um I have a had a unique experience here much like the assistant police chief who's in the back of the room we we've been in the city for quite some time but in 1989 I started working for the police department and worked for the police department for over 20 years the entire time I was there there was always a police officer directing traffic here at the school why was there a police officer directing traffic here at the school well it wasn't because of the student Crossing aspect the the issue with the school was that the parent drop off Loop was so congested and so tiny that it created a very unique and really bad traffic congestion issue out on Charles Street and then you'd have people going around cars that are waiting in line and doing all kinds I've seen it all it's crazy I've seen it um in addition to that you had the parent parking lot which the buses went into and you had the design of the two entry exit ways very close together the parents wouldn't let the buses out of the parking lot so conceptually how that all ended up occurring which actually even started before 1989 because it was already in effect when I got there was that there would be an officer there to control traffic to keep Charles Street moving and allow buses to get in out of these of this area so that that's kind of how that started and then it was that way all the way up until I retired from the police department in 2011 one of the things that was constantly advocated uh by the police department to the school and the school district was you got to fix the parent Loop you have this huge field and and as I'm speaking I don't mean to to not address you guys but I know we got a lot of parents here that know this like the back of their hand you have this massive Field behind the school and the idea was always if you could just extend the parent Loop go all the way back into that field where they have to turn around we can get the cars off of Charles Street keep the traffic moving and inherently make the entire area safer then in addition to that years later they closed the the the parent I'm sorry the the teacher entry exit which I know is where Stephanie's son had the issue there and and where I'm going with that is is and I'll talk about that in a minute but sometimes when you do do one thing it creates the next thing right so they closed that that all seemed to help the parent Loop got extended actually twice um it's now almost three times I think what the initial linear fit I'm kind of looking at it here on Google Earth but that's roughly about what it is and that allowed cars to get on and off Charles Street in stay and and have this smoother transition without blocking Charles Street um and then of course you didn't have the bus issue because now I believe the buses go in and out off the McDonald area um so historically that's how that all started um one of the things that um that that has really frustrated me about all the accidents that we seem to have involving students going to or from school not all but a lot all over the city is how many parents and family members are responsible for the accidents it I get people who say well we need more signs that say school zone there is a school there you don't need a sign to tell somebody there's a school zone there's a school it's right there but the signs already exist you know and and so I get very frustrated because the markings are there the school exists everybody knows it's a school zone there's kids everywhere and yet we've got people that are going to and from the school that are the biggest contributor to the problem and so you know as we move forward and we and we and we look at what are the low hanging fruits what can we do and what can we fix right now one of the things I'm going to advocate for is I'd like to see the schools take a really good effort when they identify like i' I've heard the rumors like a lot of people have I don't know I haven't seen an investigation I want to be clear on that but I've heard the rumors like everybody else that that that this particular person that was involved in this that there was a constant uh observation of a less than appropriate driving skill on the campus itself I don't know if that to be true not I just don't know but that being the case if that were the case or if we do have parents or faculty members or anybody for that matter that's going on and off these School premises and they are not following and obeying the rules the schools have the authority to remove them from the property and ban them from the property they are not entitled to go onto the property they can tresp have them trespass warned there's all kinds of things they could do so we need to be advocating for that so that if the school staff parents whoever PTA if they're identifying that hey we got parents here I I I I will tell you guys we've made multiple at least two that I know of DUI arrest in that student drop off parking lot in the last 35 years twice I know for a fact so things are going to happens on campus we need to be able to help we need to get the staff to help us identify these folks help take some action remove these people out of the equation you know if they can't follow the rules that's something that we can do um we we have to also implore the parents there's going to take time to go through this process to drop your child off and pick your child up everybody's in a everybody's in a big damn hurry right let's be honest everybody is in a hurry this is not a place you can be in a hurry you got to slow down you got to be aware of what's going on you got to pay attention so we need to find a way maybe through our PTA program School administration put a bigger emphasis in educating the parents listen start car pooling one of the frustr things in all of our school zones for all of our law enforcement folks we we all see it one car one child one car one child one car one child nobody seems to want a car pool it's almost like they don't know their friends well car pooling will collectively reduce the volume of traffic it will make things hang on let me finish colle collectively not everybody okay not not everybody but a lot of people don't no not most right A lot of people don't carpo so but but if we can help reduce if we can help reduce traffic then collectively we make things inherently safer right so safer for the kids safer for everybody that's involved in this thing so we need to we we need to do that as well our part is in in there's a lot of phases to this so our part is we need to have a an expectation in our city that enforcement is going to be strict I can't write tickets anymore but that would be my expectation if somebody is committing a moving violation that is putting our kids at at risk anybody else at risk in these areas my expectation is strict traffic enforcement they get tickets they don't get warnings when you got all these lights and flashing this and that and that that stuff right that so um to do that I've got to have officers on not I but our our department has to have officers that are available to do that I really like the idea Tracy and I were talking about earlier I I think if we can figure out how to improve the crosswalk in and of itself improve and reduce the traffic congestion and a I mean the best case scenario and I've got it written down here right here better on campus in the drop off loop with the school staff County crossing guards at the crosswalks and City police officers doing the traffic enforcement right that's what we want that's that's that's in a nutshell what would work the best for us to do that in order to do that we have to be able to have police officers that geographically can work this whole area because like we found out with uh you know in Stephanie's situation what if it's okay if I call you that I hope we found out in that situation that delineators did get put up that prohibit the parking over the sidewalk and the crossrock right but HIIT the parking and and what do we see now where do they go park they go further down right they're they're recreating another problem in a different location my my point to that is is simply that whatever we decide to do collectively with all of the organiz gations and agencies and this is where the frustration comes in in the time so I appreciate your comment earlier right get on it get something done we got to go but we do also as we do that we really want to make sure are we creating another problem and if so let's anticipate where that might be that's let's see where that might be because what's going to happen is his parents are going to still want to go through that drop off Loop right they're going to go down and park on well we're already having the issue they're going down now parking on Fifth Street they're going down and parking on Fourth Street they're they're they're going to they're going to not want to do the process we all want them to do safely and so that's all I'm suggesting we we we have a huge problem with it out on for Spruce Creek High School those those parents the kids don't want to ride the bus they don't want to walk they don't want to R ride a bike for whatever reason and and they get dropped off in all kinds of areas around the high school and they create problems in those areas so we have neighborhoods over there where every day dozens and dozens and dozens of cars are in an area blocking driveways creating site obstructions and all kinds of traffic conditions simply because they don't want to follow those those rules so um I you know I want to say first of all for everybody that came in tonight and stood up here and spoke I know that's not easy and I truly appreciate that and and everything that was said tonight resonates with us and and and I know that I have as I'm sure collectively the rest of the the council has given the direction to our city manager to get with whatever all these agencies are involved and come up with a plan and do something to make it safer and so you know I've got a whole sheet of ideas most of you already spoke about them um some of them have already been talked about um but there's a lot of roles here where collectively I think we can make a difference and we can make it safer and better than it was yesterday going forward so that's all I got Wayne one of the things that U I asked about was time of day as well because we got 10 school zones six elementaries supposed to be opening the gate and if they're not opening the gate consistently at the same time then how we staff those school zones also is affected um you know certainly I think time of day is an equation here uh but if you're opening a gate early opening gate late one of the things I'd like to make sure we incorporate with our conversations with the district is that whatever their policy is is that it's being implemented consistently so that we can react at all six elementary schools and know what to expect so we can uh provide the proper protection accordingly uh that that's certainly a factor I mentioned earlier when you get so many people in charge it's it's like all don't have nobody in charge I need us to take charge I know that we are not responsible for all the 67 school campuses or whatever that number is but we certainly got 10 of them and I am sorry this happened I don't know all the answers I'm certainly not going to speculate on an investigation that uh is currently underway I know some of the facts I don't know them all yet but I do know this is that uh Wayne Uh you and the chief we this council is certainly charging you to react accordingly and we're not waiting for the information there to to know whether what was needed to prevent that we've got enough information right now based and you provided a great analysis earlier on the different points of emphasis that need to be that we can go and work on a plan of action right now W with our with our other government Partners that's what you're charged with uh I do expect you guys will be prepared with a full report to us in the first meeting of August so that the public can hear it and what it is that we're going to do uh and with that I appreciate everybody may I have one last quick thing you have one last quick thing yeah I I I had it written down here and I just wanted to I I want to put it out there that today the Sheriff's Office put on social media and they put out an announcement that they are taking applications and they are looking to fill um the school crossing guard vacancies I think the mayor said 25 I had heard it was 19 but I would just ask that anybody this is a it's a great way to serve a community by the way anybody that has the time and the ability to do that please give that some consideration it is a great program those crossing guards are needed to help bring Solutions uh and I would just ask everybody to please go on to the Sheriff's Office web page or or on their social media Pages find that and share that and if you know people that have the time have the ability let's all promote that together and try to help fill the vacancies because when we can fill vacancies and you have more resources we can employ those things to do better so okay question with that you can ask I'm about to recess and I'll come to you uh we're going to recess for 15 minutes and then uh we will uh rejoin the meeting at that point e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e how you doing sir and we are back item five public comments on consent agenda there being none item six agenda approval I have a motion for approval of the agenda for the evening so moved second have a motion second all in favor signify by saying I I agenda for the evening is approved for r that I have a motion to approve the consent agenda items 7 through 12 so moved second we have a motion proper second to approve items 7 through 12 on consent call the rooll councilman buly yes Council yes vice mayor yes may yes consent toen is approved public participation do I have any cards okay Jordan Snipes good evening all I'm Jordan Snipes uh as you guys know me I'm the uh president founder of Tomorrow Needs you um we have a veteran and fresh respond nonprofit um just wanted to remind everyone about some upcoming events um I know last time I had said that we had six spots for the conference in Miami for mental health Symposium um actually one of the neighboring cities took two of those spots so those are going down um and just want to say a little bit what that was is that is a program it's a mental health Symposium to be able to help and do peer support and everything like that for mental health PTSD and everything uh so we still have four additional spots that are available to the city um and then we have this weekend coming up we have a community dinner the Port Orange Eagles from 5:00 to 7:30 June 8th and then we have our 22 Mile Walk which is our big event each year it's coming up in September um and that's going to be hosted and started and finished in the city of Port Orange so that's all Jordan keep talking about it appreciate you ma' Kelly Moore Moore of Kelly good evening Mr Mayor uh council members uh my name is Kelly Moore I here representing the Port Orange uh South dayona Chamber of Commerce just want to say on behalf of the board of directors including myself I just want to thank you for your continued support um so sorry for the events that have transpired recently with that young young student um our thoughts and prayers are with the the families um just want to note a couple of upcoming events that I wanted to share because they are open to the public so we encourage uh the residents to attend uh business owners or not um this coming Friday we have uh on June 7th from 8:00 to 9:00 a.m. is our monthly morning mix and mingle at the Port Orange Advent campus on 5821 South Williamson Boulevard we hope to see you there and U mayor Bernett we see you at a lot of the events so we appreciate that our last Thursday of the month we have our coffee and connections at copper line in the Port Orange Pavilion it's a very well attended event we were at over 40 attendees last month which is our biggest attendance and it is open to the public whether you're a chamber member or not as with all the events and then from tomorrow one of our sister cities Daytona Beach Shores uh we're highlighting members that own businesses in the city of Daytona Beach Shores so there's going to be a member appreciation from 5: to 7:00 p.m. at the max Beach Resort on 1901 South Atlantic app in Daytona Beach Shores so thanks for allowing me some time this evening thank you thank you and Robert Ryan hgen come on up Robert mayor council members Robert rehagen 1425 text to drive north um chapter nine of your uh Land Development code section four Wetlands mitigation criteria and it's paragraph D says mitigation should take place on site or in close proximity there to or in areas which shall be designated by the city as suitable for off-site mitigation and I would like to recomend commend that you consider making that much more restrictive and that you have offsite mitigation must be within the city or else money's deposited into a mitigation fund and uh we still have many flood prone properties here in the city that we could buy the city could buy and uh do some creative work with to uh prevent flooding thank you thank you Robert and Mark Dickinson I do you not see him Tracy that was all of them thank you Council comments why don't we start with Scott tonight I've got nothing else I Mo it on all right Tracy anything else for the evening uh one thing that I would like to uh bring up is Council had a fire department uh rescue uh scenario over the weekend um hate to say they bring all the toys out and all the big guns but Joe and his staff did a phenomenal Job showing us what they're made of um but what I'd like to do coming out of that and and and seeing what was done is get Wayne uh if we can look at if Council agrees with this is possibly next February during cooler months having that for a public venue and letting the public come out and not exactly what we did but to be able to see everything house with the training facility you don't want to let the general public repel down the third floor you know or sixth floor falling off the building you know it was uh it was exciting but uh I think uh it would be great if we could get fire and police together uh out at the center and be able to have a citizens day demo for what these guys do for the community that be heck of an idea Reed What You Got Tonight uh first and foremost I want to say thank you uh actually the F dot um if you notice they uh announced looks like July they're going to be putting up a red light uh on the corner of Nova and Miles Drive which has been a long conversation um a lot of people have been wanting and I attended meetings on that I advocated for that and um I'm really I know a lot of residents are happy that that's finally coming to be so I want to say make sure I acknowledge that uh looks like installation will be in July so just I'm not sure I don't think that'll result in any lane closures just be aware of it um and then also I wanted to mention the fire demo uh that was really cool to see thank you Chief wolfing and all of uh all of your staff for showing us around and giv us the VIP treatment it was really fun appreciate especially letting me bring the family so they could see it as well I do think it's awesome I think it uh would be cool for residents to have an opportunity to view it somehow if we can find out a logistic you know a sensible logistic way to do that a safe way and and actually on on that note and and on um you know what we were talking about earlier um I I want to make sure that I say thank you to all of our First Responders uh that work for the city um I was in New Jersey with some friends and I I was talking to uh a couple of law enforcement offers up there um and they were telling stories I usually don't get to hear um and it made me just sit back and pause and and remember that there are a lot of things that they see and a lot of things they do that none of us would want to and uh you know I I was thinking about this you know Wayne had shared a statistic with me that in the last month or so we've had three different uh firefighters in the State of Florida take their own lives and so for some reason I just felt very compelled tonight to let our First Responders know please fire everyone that you are appreciated very much so the job you do is not easy it's not something a lot of people would want to sign up for and there's a lot more it reminds me actually talking to my father about his time in Vietnam there's a lot of things that you know he doesn't discuss and that he lives with and so I just want to make sure that our people know we appreciate you I want that to be said over and over tonight for some reason I just have this deep feeling that they need to hear it more often so that's all Tracy you had one more thing to add yeah uh Chief I'm going to butcher this name so help me with this and the police department is very proud to announce that we have a new sergeant Douglas CH Cham thank you because I I'm reading it and I know I'm going to mess that up um promoted to Sergeant he's been with uh the department for quite a while field training officer and a Southeast Valia Regional SWAT team also so as we go forward uh as he was getting promoted we also took in five new sworn not in school sworn law enforcement this past weeks too so the Department's growing and uh good job thank you sir it was great to see that event it was uh great to see the sergeant uh seem a little nervous even though that he was figuring his way around a room that he been in about a hundred times but uh it was good to see appreciate that the only thing I wanted to add is uh this Thursday is June 6th you know we remember these things because they're a magic number because it's 80 years but 80 years ago this Thursday is uh the anniversary of D-Day my grandfather landed at D-Day he landed on the beaches of Normandy and he saw a lot of things and we lost a lot of lives that day he also fought the Battle of the Bulge two the biggest uh battles of World War II and he he came home and many did many did not I want to remember all of them because many of those that did came back changed people but they did that was in service of a country and in service of a world that needed it at the time and I will be issuing a proclamation in their honor on this Thursday for dday the 80th anniversary on dday so when you see notices on Facebook and social media do me a favor just don't hit like hit love and then share it make sure everybody in your circle sees it just take the extra second I'd appreciate that I think everybody who served will as well on Memorial Day we had two centenarians with us that served in World War II not one but two amazing just amazing that generation and just keep them in mind on this Thursday with that public hearing portion of the meeting is now open second reading of ordinance number 202 24-8 on ordinance of the city of Port Orange valuch County Florida approving the seventh amendment of The Clark Professional Center and wedding chapel plan commercial development master agreement and conceptual development plan providing for the appeal of conflicting ordinances providing for severability and providing for an effective day move to approve ordinance number 202 24-8 second we have a motion proper second items open on the floor for discussion we got second reading any comments questions counsel there being none would anyone here care to speak to the item there being none back to us Council final comments or questions there being none call to roll yes yes may yes may Bernette yes I V and I know I skipped the golf Advisory board report I'll come back to that after the public hearing uh we have resolution number 24-15 and I apologize for that resolution 2415 is a resolution of the city of Port Orange valuch County Florida providing and authorizing the reissuance execution and delivery of the city of the private college facility revenue bonds Palmer College of Chiropractic project serus 2019b in aggregate principal amount not to exceed $1 14,860 th000 the execution and delivery an amended and restated uh indenture of trust an amended and restated loan agreement to provide with the reissuance of said bonds providing that said reissu shall not constitute a debt a liability or obligation to do the city but shall instead be payable solely from the revenues here in provided and providing for the authorizing of the execution delivery of the related Bond documents providing for certain other details in connection there with and providing for an effective date move to approve resolution number 24-15 second we have a motion proper second the is on the floor for discussion counsel any comments or questions there being none anyone here care to speak to the item anybody but Robert come on up Robert sorry mayor council members Robert rehagen 1425 Dex to drive Fort Orange um to me using the city's tax free Status is a subsidy based simply on the fact that they rent land owned by the city I would consider such a subsidy to be discriminatory if it's not offered to every business in the city thank you thank you Robert we have a new Bond Council so we'd like Shannon was going to introduce him and let him talk uh yeah sorry let me introduce myself I'm Tim Bramwell I'm a partner with aeran and Jacksonville for your bond Council um I I guess your bond Council up until the end of March was Peter Dame and had been for 40 some odd years um he retired at the end of March and I joined him at acran back in 2021 and I've taken over the Public Finance practice from him um just to address the comments that you know this kind of subsidy is actually a subsidy by the federal government it deals with the tax exemption of Interest or or the exemption of the interest on the bonds from from federal income tax and you know this type of financing is available to all 501 c3s uh within the city upon application ultimately um this Bond was issued back in 20 2019 to refinance the facilities here in Port Orange as well as in uh Davenport Iowa um what they're doing here now is is not it's a deemed reissuance for tax purposes but really they are you know moving from one lender to another lender within the confines of the existing bond documents as this financing was was was structured for and so nothing really new here is being issued or or or provided it's more mely a continuation of of you know what's already occurred does anybody have any questions there being none thank you okay anyone else on the item back to council comments or questions there being none call the rooll couny yes councils yes vice mayor yes mayor yes for o the public hearing portion of the meeting is now closed let me backtrack to item 14 report from keer Sports on the Cypress Head call for I believe ker has left they will be rescheduled for later in the month thank you very much item 15 golf Advisory board report same I than same thing okay so skipping what I skipped didn't hurt us for skipping because we're skipping it anyway if you can figure that out so you want to skip it yeah let's do that let's go to item 18 which is next on the regular agenda item 18 is the fiscal year 2425 budget discussions preliminary capital and prevalence plan Capital Outlet in Fleet replacement Wayne who do we have presenting me and Wayne Clark city manager thank you I'm going to I'm going to present there's plenty of Staff here we have all the department heads here if you have questions on specific projects or the financing the finance team is here as well we get the powerp point on the screen all right so when you go through the capital uh expenditures that we have this is something we typically do ahead of the actual operating budget in the earlier part of the year uh looking at what our priorities were when we set this together so I I put in here for you this is really what we are looking to do there's a lot of projects in here that deal with resilience we had a bad storm a couple of years ago we know we had older parts of town that weren't developed with the correct storm water uh standards in place and so we've put a lot of emphasis on resilience projects so in addition to storm water actual projects related to improving drainage you've got public facilities that are being elevated whether it's lift stations the wastewater treatment plant other City properties and facilities that resilience projects are in there and both infrastructure and facility maintenance there had been in the past some incidences of of deferred maintenance which ends up costing us more in the long run so as we went into this budget we wanted to emphasize taking care of the infrastructure that we have so that it last its life and is taken care of the other thing I just put at the bottom is is year one projects if you put money in year one year one projects get executed by the staff we complete them in the past there had been a little bit of money put in Year One that was almost like a savings into future years and that's not really how fiveyear Capital Improvement programs work so we have shifted the focus towards uh if it's in year one whatever is you you see as we go through the presentation whatever is in there that stage is what gets done so start with the Capal and improvements these are basically construction projects and they're broken down by the funds that are paying for them so this is your water and sewer utility funds uh there's a there's a couple of highlights in here I'd be happy to answer any questions as we go along through here uh Leisure Circle maybe one of those you aware of there have been some complaints back on the the far east side of the road there was a dip in the road that we kept patching and patching and patching uh one of the things we've been trying to do on the east side that's the oldest part of town it's the oldest infrastructure you've seen a lot of projects where we're lining the sewer in there we're trying to do things that that do minimal disruption it limits our cost but in certain cases that's not going to be feasible we've actually got to dig up the roads dig up the pipes and replace them so a couple of them you see there the Leslie and leer are two of those that couldn't be handled bu through a simple lining project so u a number of routine uh water sewer type projects in in that list but if you have any questions just stop me and and I'll we'll we'll answer all your questions we put them in a map in the event anybody wanted to see where they were located um storm water uh we mentioned one of our higher priorities in here a couple big ones the Cambridge Canal project that's the construction of our uh the the big Cambridge facility so the design you've approved money this year so it's under designed now that would build the improvements to it we've shown it full funding uh we're believe we will get a decent amount of that money back from FEMA so at this point it's going to be budgeted at that amount but we will probably get reimbursed for a large amount South Winds I just wanted to draw attention to that that's a a closed Basin so when it flooded we had a lot of issues there where fortunately the Atlantic High School let us during Ian put a little bit of water into their dry Pond to help lower the water levels but that that's one of our few isolated basins where there's nowhere for the water to go so this creates an outfall to get the water out of there in the future so it won't stand up you also see some of the acquisition project so there's approximately 50 or so I think homes that we have that are to acquire and demolish so they will no longer flood most of these are at least 75% FEMA some of them will be as much as 90% uh so again those dollars are total cost but in the end the total cost to the people of Port Orange will be lower than that there's the map of of them also General construction so this is most of the stuff that comes from general fund uh a little bit of everything in here a decent number of parks projects I know is with the parks Bond being out there we had a couple people asking on social media and others what do you do with Parks besides this Bond you can see there's there's routine Capital maintenance used this is not the first year there's been capital projects related to parks in here so that's a a standard that we do so those are some of the highlights and then the city center field rehab we we put money in to design it this year that will be the construction to fix it so we can put those fields back in you so that's a a highlight project to this section another map the transportation list most of this is the stuff when you see Community Development staff get up here and talk about the TPO it's the stuff that councilman Foley works on with us as well uh so those are the projects that are out there in the different phases the two I want to draw attention to here the nine and 10 sidewalk repairs and Road resurfacing those are both actually Public Works and Engineering projects uh typically what we Fund in those two items is just what the gas tax gives you so you get about $200,000 Less in each one of those lines what we have found with our new alignment of staff and that power that they bring to executing construction projects uh there there's a lot more need out there than the funds if we give them $300,000 that's what they'll spend but they could they pro this year with the extra funding they did over $600,000 worth of work so what we've included in here is $200,000 extra for sidewalking Road out of general fund to continue to catch up on that need now eventually we will stabilize we will get caught up on the backlog because there were a number of years where we didn't do this at the pace that they're doing it now and so that number will come back down but this will allow us to get these things taken care of quicker in that area uh if if that is an area where Council may not want to to put the focus let me know but that we did that based on comments from last year thinking that would help move along some important things for Community most of those things are things that we've seen the do me a favor uh the the Charles Street uh railroad crossing elaborate on what we're trying to do there so every year we're required to pay for when they go in and fix the railroad crossing so they just make us pay for it and we pay fixed it you send us the bill yeah so we budget for that in advance because they they're nice enough to let us know that they're going to do it and charge it so we we take the we take the opportunity to put money in the budget to pay for it Wayne real quick the sidewalk repairs versus the sidewalk bundle on that page you just want to touch on why those why those are two different lines side Sidewalk repairs existing sidewalks that are either Roots busted wear whatever people driving on them anything that's existing sidewalks the bundle is gaps filling in gaps in areas where they're not and there's a decent number of those Citywide uh we actually do have a map if you'd like to see where all the little gaps are being filled in but that fills in a lot of the areas where there's missing sidewalks uh I think there's several of them that that are helping like we've got the Willow Run isn't that where those are and so some of them are going to help with school safety as well so those are fill in sidewalks in some of the areas where we heard about earlier tonight thank you for asking Capital outlay this is usually buying stuff where the other things are projects it's not that clear of a delineation but it's it's generally that um there's a number of projects in here that are that are various things that we do to do our jobs probably the biggest thing here is the two elevators that are out there I don't know if you want me to pause and let you have a couple comments on that or you continue through I'll talk about the elevators later okay a couple other things just help like just just for interesting purpose what the the side Cutters do so if we want to save side on certain Fields you send hand crews out there to do it with a shovel it's hard to cut even side and lay it back down flat side cutter cuts it consistent and even so it's easy to pick up move and flip back down uh there's a couple things that are uh you can try to see what other the bot lights if you seen the B lights around City centered some of them are busted up they don't make those anymore so it's we can't find parts to fix them with so we're going to place them with ones that we can going forward um the rest of them are all fairly self-explanatory uh under these two so the y capital fund a couple things there to improve the building we have an old fire suppression system needs to be upgraded uh the phone system is 1990s vintage and uh lacks sufficient uh cyber security protections on it so we need to get that upgraded uh in in even if we do Renovations on this building in the long run that what we do there will be something we move with us to to the re renovated facility Fleet is really part of capital outlay it's just there's enough in it to make it different this is just all the vehicles we're replacing the way we got it color coded if it's bold it's new if there's an aster next to it it's a piece of heavy equipment so all the ones that are not bolded are just Replacements of existing so they're in a plan five 7 10 however many year life we give them they they've come to the end of their life and they're they're getting replaced the fire engine on there is that takes it's like a three-year lead time so that's out here now that the fire engine actually works uh but we're we're looking to replace it so we we have five fire engines and then we have the three backups that are there this will be there when its time comes it'll be ready to go uh you'll occasionally see the difference in truck costs so Parks has a different cost for its trucks than over here where you see public works or others the the those departments are getting trucks with with lifts on them they have cranes they have heavier suspension for towing heavier items so there's different cost because there's different features on some of the trucks we just didn't go into tremendous amount of detail on them but that's why you don't see the exact same number as you're going through those things uh a number of of police vehicle Replacements including non-mark cars for detectives um couple other vehicles in in these uh these areas I know we've got a lot of uh well there you go I was going to talk about Revenue um we've got that coming up in the uh uh the the main Workshop comes up in July uh July 23 it's tentatively set as the night we go over the operating budget anything you have concerns with tonight or want us to change or work on we'll be happy to get you stuff in the interim too we can bring it up at any council meeting you want but we will confirm we've got Capital the way you want it on the 23rd it's tentatively set for you to do a Max millage that night we know everybody's here for some reason that doesn't work we have a backup on the 30 just so to make sure we get it done by the state requirements to do so you see the two budget hearings in there the reason for one of the reason for having Capital come to you a little early is Personnel is your biggest cost we pay that it it's most of it is contractually obligated we have our bargaining units that we have contracts with we contract what I would consider it's still labor it's just other people's labor so like Waste Pro that does our trash pickup the people that mow the medians you know there's still people doing work we're just paying them under contracts those contracts have escalator Clauses so your your person cost is absent changing your personnel levels is is somewhat fixed so that's your biggest amount so Capital becomes where you spend the most money other than that so it it just this is how you make an impact on the community by the stuff that everybody can see and participate in so it's it's pretty important and it's a fairly large I think it's a 20 plus million dollars in this year for those projects so uh if there's any questions you have anything you want me to go back over or anything all of our guys who know the projects better than me can help with we'll be happy to share that I appreciate that next week the property appraiser uh Mr Bartlet will be doing his valuations uh I'll be attending that I want to see uh exactly where we are with the property valuations and I will come back and share that with everybody as soon as he presents it to us I think we're expecting what might be better than I'm hoping a full Half Full Cup you know of course property valuations that's a mixed bag we all want our property values to appreciate it at at a nice rate uh and of course we adjust the tax rate downward approximately because 5 * 4 is the same as four time 5 but the other problem with property value appreciation is it also causes insurance rates to go up so because you have to Ure at a higher value so it's it's uh it's not a uh it's a mixed bag but I'll bring that information back for everybody do you have any questions of uh Wayne before we because I know we'll be digging in deeper with all of this uh at the budget Workshop but do we have any questions or comments on this right now just what's been basically presented so I met with Wayne for lunch today and we were talking about the city hall elevators line on the capital request on page 14 um so as I think everyone knows we've got two elevators out there um but one has not been functioning now for like three months um the other one needs I believe Wayne said about $70,000 in repairs uh and even more to cuz I understand there's a state certification that's going to expire in August next year next year so um what I my personal belief is that we don't need two elevators it's not required by code um it seems like something that seems like a very large price tag uh for redundancy on something and I want you to think how much has changed since those elevators were installed how many people pay their utility bill online first utili is actually here on the first floor anyway permits are done online everything is gone digital and I feel like that having two elevators and spending that much money on it is a redundancy we don't need in the budget think about it but the other problem we might have difficulty with is we have also have to be Ada requirement so if you have any maintenance on that elevator that exposes us I I understand that for sure um that's something to discuss more perhaps on what that risk reward is um elevators can be repaired let's make sure that is a topic for conversation for Council decision at the at the budget we'd be happy to put together more depth on the risk reward of of what that is I know we had talked about at some point this building itself being substantially renovated but it probably doesn't happen fast enough to we would certainly not have our certification next year do everything all at once right and I depending how long I guess the real question be how long would it take to fix na if it went down because there are several restaurants I can think of that have one elevator that have been down or would go down and I don't know if that opens them to liability or if there's a time frame in which you're allowed to fix that you know there's probably more things but I think it's something that needs to be looked at a little harder we be happy to bring you back more depth to help with that any other items very good this is the discussion item only so that brings us to item 19 additional item City attorney report nothing to report excellent report just like uh well you know what we do have one thing to report the reason why you're here tonight City attorney Matt Jones is not here tonight because he's a new father so congratulations to Matt Jones city manager report I don't have anything other than than Mike did clarify that committee we were talking about earlier the school crossing evaluation committee he's got a little bit more information he found today so we'll send that out to you tomorrow he actually has every single member it is a sheriff's committee so I was wrong I just want to make sure everybody knew I didn't have that right so Mike did get that extra information today and and we'll send you the details on it but it is a sheriff's committee and we know who the membership is of it and you go to them to get things put on their agenda okay that's all I have is that open I do not know and they said Mike said no okay I can do a G Pin report too all right after River Council committee reports River to C TPO uh yeah actually um more so because of my executive committee position on that board but um in my email today I received a draft of the V uh of the lease for the river CPO River to CPO uh that we talked about um so we'll be reviewing that tomorrow at the executive committee meeting also I don't know why I can't seem to get these words out of my mouth uh the other thing I want to say is that at the last meeting uh the river to C TPO has been discussing about a name change and a rebranding um now that we Encompass all of Flagler and valua uh to rename to be the valua Flagler TPO um so we'll see that process takes time there's a lot of expenditures that go with that um the list she had was incredibly long but um with us moving into a new building and with the change in the territory covered it seemed like a good time to go ahead and uh look into doing that Rebrand so it'll probably be known as the valua Flagler TPO uh in the coming months okay Scott you said you had something on the general pension to add yeah we had a uh might as well go ahead and report on it we had a general pension uh General employee pension board meeting yesterday uh just to report back to council current market value of the plan is about 38 a little over $38 Million April wasn't a great month actually there was a a 2.7% down month however the annual yield uh so far is over 8.38% so we're meeting our goals and objectives there did want to mention to uh coun IL that the board took action yesterday and terminated Highland Capital which had been um one of our investment groups for the plan they were they were meeting benchmarks but were being significantly outperformed by other competitive uh interests so we took the um recommendation of our Southeast advisory committee with Jeff Swanson and terminated them and and taking on a um a different vendor that we feel will better perform for us for now but Highland was with us for a long time and we let them know that you know hey in the future we still appreciate your interest and and uh it's not like you're off the table for forever but um that was a that was a good action on the part of the pension board I just wanted to to bring to you because while it's not a pleasant thing to have to do um it's the right thing to have to do and so I think it's good when pin boards will follow the advice of those advisers so that's all I got accountability appreciate it with that any other business come before us this evening there being none we will meet again in two weeks we'll see you all then thank you very much everybody have a good night e