amen PL the United States of America and to the for it stands Nation indivisible for councilman Foley councilman gford
yes councilman green here vice mayor grubs here mayor sner yes and here and councilman Foley should be here momentarily but we're going to go ahead and get started so um just a couple brief comments of what
we're going to be doing tonight first of all appreciate everybody coming out I hope that tonight will be very informative and will answer a lot of questions that many of us have so in the State of Florida if you're not familiar there is this thing called government in the sunshine and conceptually what that
means is issues that are going to come before the municipal elected body to be voted on and carried for it and executed out have to be discussed in public and open form this this particular uh Workshop that we're about to go through
tonight contains a very comprehensive study that was commissioned by the previous city council after Hurricane Ian and so we have individually had opportunities to talk about this with kimley horn thank you very much for being here tonight by the way uh and
City staff but amongst ourselves we have had not had that opportunity so that is the primary focus for that tonight um what you're going to be hearing about tonight are ultimately solutions that the council can look at and take action on to try to
put our city in a much better position to handle extreme flood situations like we have seen in the last couple of years I encourage you to to take notes you may have questions you want to email us later after the meeting tonight I
think some of our our critical staff folks are going to stay around I will stay around um the city manager is going to touch on additional meetings that are going to uh occur after this where they're going to be more geographically specific to neighborhoods and areas
heavily impacted where there's a designated project that's been identified and modeled so I hope that kind of makes sense so those are going to be good meetings for really detailed X's and O's and and lots of close contact and communication with our
staff for for council tonight gentlemen I I encourage ask a lot of questions questions okay even if you already know the answer a lot of good questions can still be asked so the information can be out there um I know our city engineer tonight is is planning on sticking
around and and and uh going through as much detail and information and questions that you guys have so I encourage ask a lot of questions try to be as clear about the information you're asking and the wise and all that kind of stuff I'm also going to be challenging each of you as as we learn more about
these projects in these specific areas is to be very very closely familiar with the ones that are in your District um and and we'll all know a lot about all of them but specifically the ones in your District because I think those residents are going to have lots and lots of follow-up questions which is a
good thing typically when we have meetings like this they run a little bit long we we see a tendency of folks have gotten a little bit of information they got other things to do and they get up and leave so preemptively I just want to say this tonight that if you have questions and you have haven heard the answer you or
you have something specific our business cards are out on the on the podium right there in the lobby I've also made numerous sheets with some really important email contacts and one thing I would ask you guys to do tonight to help us collectively as a city is and the
city manager is going to touch on it here in a little bit but there is a project that we have carried forward to Tallahassee we were actually up in Tallahassee a couple weeks ago one of these projects that we're going to talk about tonight that has a heavy funding mechanism that needs to be be funded in order for us to execute the project um
we'll get to get into the details so I don't want to spoil the the good news that we know we can help a lot of residents with one single project but it's got to get funded and so we've carried this project forward specifically to Tallahassee and we have
a state Senator Senator Tom Wright he is sponsoring the Appropriations and he is doing the lifting on his side and we have a house representative Chase traymont on the other side it would mean a lot to take a moment to take those sheets out there and email
those two folks and just send them positive words of Praise we appreciate you putting this high on your priority list this means a lot to the city of Port Orange they already know about the projects we've already gone through the projects they've had opportunities to interact with us but there's a lot of
competition in Tallahassee so it means a lot to have them both as our Representatives locally on both sides of the the government aisle to put these as high priority as they can possibly be I spoke with with representative Chase traymont yesterday he assured me he said
Scott this project for Port Orange is my number one priority in Tallahassee so that's what we want to hear there's other email content on there other state representatives that we think are are key again positive words of encouragement to support us support these projects it's easy for all of us
to do so please consider doing that that information is right out there as well all right Mr Mayor maybe for maybe let them let the people know who Kimberly horn is we're I'm going to let the city manager touch on that but if the record could reflect that uh district one councilman Reed Foley is in
attendance apologize for being no you're good so for uh for some of our new Council folks that maybe haven't been through a workshop this is a little bit more informal than the normal Council meetings so we're not we're not voting on anything tonight we're not making any motions all that kind of stuff this is
about us having open discussion and dialogue answered as many questions so that we can continue to to to take that information and figure out what we want to do and how we want to execute this we're going to get into a funding discussion later um because all of these have to none of them are free projects
right so we'll get into the funding mechanism later and that's where uh you know there's going to have to be some some tough decisions we're going to have to figure it out this time I'm going to turn it over to our city manager Wayne Clark to start us off thank you as you
said uh our city engineer Juno Reed is going to lead the presentation tonight he has been the project manager on the stormw water master plan as well as several other key projects that he'll go over in the presentation and he or his staff will likely be the project managers of the physical construction of
these projects as they move forward in time so as he gets ready to to get up here and go through the presentation just want to make sure that we're all on the the same page of what he's going to talk about so there's two main components of his presentation there's a a background component that we think it's important before you start trying
to solve problems that there's an understanding of where we're at now so he's going to go over the existing storm water system in the city as it exists today a little bit on from as large as the regional drainage basins all the way down to creeks and ditches who maintains
them who has ownership responsibility uh he's going to also go through how they work so most of our drainage system is gravity based but we do have pumps in certain areas so he's going to go over the system as it exists today in addition to that we're going to go over what we've talked about up here
over the months since the storms the root causes of the flooding the main issues that we've seen related to that he's going to talk about how our storm water regulations have evolved and changed over time uh the geography of Port Orange where the areas are that are lower Ling versus the other areas and
the rainfall history he's going to touch on also the actions that are already ongoing to try to mitigate the flooding to to reduce the flooding so there's those planning projects that are out there that are critical for us to become Grant eligible that gives us a lot of opportunity to get at money from the
larger level governments both the state and federal level as well as it it draws us Regional cooperation so some of these projects as you'll see when he talks about the storm water system are Beyond Port Orange they're not we have we have to work with other agencies and the regional cooperation that comes from the
planning efforts is how we know we're all working together and that people's projects aren't hurting each other but are helping each other going forward in addition to that he'll talk about just briefly some of the things that are out there because some of the projects are going to are are solving large area issues but there's also a lot of federal
and state money going to individual homeowners through various FEMA programs HUD programs and things like that that allow individuals to either Elevate their homes or rebuild their homes and in some cases they're going to sell the property and and leave but those programs are out there as well so in
addition to larger scale drainage projects then there's these other options um that's that'll be the background it takes about 20 minutes for him to get through that uh and then the storm water master plan projects will come after that kimley horn who we have hired to do that he'll go through who
they are in their background but they we we picked them they have done this they're a very large company and they have a lot of expertise in the area of storm water have done these kind of projects throughout the country so he'll introduce the team as he goes forward with it as you said there's no votes tonight there's no direction in formal
manner uh it's going to be a presentation of information the plan itself was due to be completed in June we were far enough along to know what the projects are so when Council said can we go ahead and explain to the public what the projects are where we look like we are we're ready to do that
they'll be done with this in May so what we're planning to do is beginning in probably late May and going throughout the Summer is taking the individual projects and having a meeting it probably be at Lakeside or somewhere like that so you can come oneto one talk
to people and hear detailed question questions about how it will affect you and your property so that was the important part if we tried to go through nine projects tonight and you happen to live in Sleepy Hollow and that's project number seven you get to listen to the everybody asked questions about the
other six and you may not care so the idea is break it out so when we're going to talk about Sleepy Hollow we're going to talk about Sleepy Hollow and everybody that cares about Sleepy Hollow can come here how it affects them in individually if you want to hear about sugar Forest Pepper Hill and those areas you can come to that Pro you're welcome
to come to every one of them if you want to but we thought the personal attention to those project areas was the better way to to go about making sure that everybody could come up and talk this setting is not going to be as effective as being able to stand there and talk to one of the engineers and say this is my
house right here how do you think that affects my house run the animations and do that the final thing before turning it over to Juno is as you mentioned some of the projects are already moving on so the the Cambridge project has been under design for a while uh Juno will talk
about that in its current status and then the one you were mentioning earlier the the sugar Forest meline Pepper Hill as we've been calling it that project last meeting you approved the design so the design is already underway for that project and that's the one that we were in talah hasy asking for funding for and
as you mentioned uh the house side of the budget it's already been included in the house budget thanks to representative traymont efforts to get it there getting the Senate side in there makes a big difference moving that forward so those two are actually already started and underway and with that I'll turn it over to Juno to go
through the presentation Juno as you're coming up uh Wayne just I just want to reiterate and I I want to I want to make sure I don't forget to say thanks to kimley Horn to come in ahead of time on the project because when we were in Tallahassee there is a big difference
when you go to the state capital and you're asking for funding on a project and you can look at them and say this project has been modeled it will work if you'll fund it or help us fund it we know it will work and that's not something they're used to hearing uh
especially in past when technology just wasn't there projects go to Tallahassee and you're hopeful that that's going to work and sometimes you spend a lot of money and they don't get you the result you're you're wanting so having this kind of modeling uh we've already seen in Tallahassee uh is is going to be to
our benefit so I just didn't want to forget to say thank you guys for coming in ahead of time on that because we were able to utilize that information this funding year which helps a lot good to see you sir good thank thank you uh mayor council Juno Reed City engineer happy to be here tonight to to give you
this presentation so these are just our meeting outcomes and uh uh city manager Wayne he's already been through these so I'll just skip to the next slide um so as manager indicated we're going to start off tonight U just kind of with a general overview of our storm water system starting with the larger kind of
going to the to the smaller and where eventually that water goes won't spend a lot of time time on it but junus I just want I'm sorry sure for one one quick pause for for Council if if if you say something and immediately in one of our minds we we want clear are you okay with us pausing
you for just and have you retouch on something yeah I I think I would prefer it that way so that it's fresh in everybody's mind if there if I use a term or if I say something that that you guys don't understand please B me stop me and I'm happy to provide additional explanation we'll do that and then when you get to the projects portions and you're going through individual projects what I'm going to ask is after each
project give me a second to see if if anybody has specific questions that project so happy too go ahead sorry so again we're looking at a map of the of uchia County and uh the county has uh numerous what we call Regional drainage basins in it and specifically uh there's
four of those basins that are that are here within Port Orange and and I'll pay it um special note to uh to two of them we have the b19 canal and the Nova Canal Basin those are those are two major drainage basins in the city that we're going to that we're going to touch on
later on in the uh in the presentation so next we're going to talk about like some of the some of the major drainage features in in the city storm water system starting off with our storm water ponds um as you can see we have almost 600 ponds here in the city of Port
Orange of that 600 there we the city maintains 136 of those so less than 25% of the ponds in the city the city is actually responsible for maintaining so as you can see the the majority or or almost 75% of the ponds are maintained by private entities most of those are
homeowners associations or or like a Property Owners Association for a big commercial projects so we rely a lot on those associations to properly maintain their systems uh dot also has a handful of ponds and so does the county um next we'll talk about um drainage ditches and canals together so
these are the you know the anywhere from a big major canal like the v19 down to a down to a small ditch the ditch like we see along Willow Run um 36 1/2 miles of those in the city of that 362 miles the city has about 14 miles that that that
we actively maintain or just under 40% um with the county about the same number is us and then and then the state and then there's a little bit of privately maintained canals as well and then we we go to uh the next one is what we call our major canals these are the big open
waterways that that move a lot of water um the city has about 4 and2 miles of those about 30% as you can see the county has the majority of those major canals here in the city primarily consisting of the b19 the b23 and then
what's the extension of the Nova Canal is the Halifax canal and if I'll Advance through here so this is just another look at those those kind of numbers but broken out where it's City maintain versus kind of everybody else and then we'll take a look at this
map and see if I can get this to work here zoomed in nice so as you can see on the map everything in yellow is maintained by an entity other than the city and everything in blue is maintained by the city uh the larger Bolder lines with the arrows those are
our major drainage canals and then the smaller ones are the are the are the ditches and then the ponds are the other entities you see so as you can see if you look at the canals and ditches
overall again we we maintain about 40% of those here in the city okay so where does all the water go so the water gets you know from the ponds into the ditches into into the canals into these major canals and then when the water flows out of the city we call that an outfall so that's basically
where water is going from a ditch or a canal out into a receiving water so here in the city we have three receiving water ERS we have the Halifax River we have Rose Bay and we have Spruce Creek which is which then flows into Strickland Bay so three receiving waters
for all of our outfalls we have two types of outfalls in the city we have gravity outfalls where that's just what it is you know it just takes the slope of the land and flows out via gravity we have pumped outfalls so on the map the the gravity outfalls are indicated by a blue arrow The Pump Station outfalls are
indicated by a purple Arrow zoom in a little bit on the map so we can see um even though there are approximately the same number of purple arrows or pumped outfalls as there as gravity outfalls as manager manager indicated the vast majority of our water
discharges via gravity systems so we have one major pumping system and that's our Cambridge system the rest of our pumping systems are relatively small when compared to the the major gravity gravity outfalls we have are all of the uh are all of the major outfalls oneway
flow no so the gravity outfalls are so these gravity outfalls because they are they do discharge into tidy influenced Waters so the Halifax River Rose Bay strick Strickland Bay up Spruce Creek it is it is influenced by the tide so if
you have a high tide condition like a king tide or a tidle surge associated with a storm it can actually physically push that water back up into those canals and and basically like you said reverse the flow so they are not strictly oneway system when we're seeing these Storm surges and
storms are the outfalls ultimately all underwater during those peak times so basically that yes they're they're out they're they're lower than what they would normally be for for a free outfall and so that that that creates a condition that that slows or stops those
Gravity outfalls from functioning altogether okay question Juno um dealing with the gravity outfalls there are systems out there and I know we have some of those in the pipes leading out to it and I know there's talks about which you're going
to get to making check valves that it ends up stopping that influx coming back into the canals yes that's correct so they're they're basically like you said they're backflow prevention devices they're they they so they'll take a gravity system and turn it into a oneway flow so it'll let it flow out and then
it'll it'll physically stop that that tide or that water from coming back into the system and then we live in that typical Florida low-lying area going from Nova Road out an example to the river where the outfall goes to if we have a king high tide we're talking 3
feet 4 feet difference in elevation is all we have for Gravity to actually work yes that that that's correct and and I think it's you you can really see it if if you pay attention to the city and you really notice it on the on the Halifax which is the extension of the Nova Canal around that the Spruce Creek and dun
loton area there'll be certain times where we haven't had rain for weeks but that Canal is brimming at the top it's like right up near the surface and that's because of those king or those ultra high tides pushing that system all the way all the way up into our city like that so yeah they're very heavily tidally influenced so check
valves are important yes and currently we don't have check valves on any of them current so so we we have some backflow prevention devices on some smaller pieces of pipe along Ridgewood but um there's I think we only have six or seven backflow prevention devices currently in the city okay once those
devices are so what what I've seen in some of the others around the state is when the when the outfall point of exit we'll call it is underwater even if they have the the back flow prevention device the water just flows over top of it is
that correct or not or or or could it still be benefit to have could we benefit from that even in the lowest lying areas knowing that that's going to be underwater in a in a even a lowcase storm Sur so that's a it's a great question and the answer is is it depends right so so like in a situation like
let's kind of if you take Ridgewood south of of of dun Lon Avenue on the east side of R Ridgewood no matter even if you put backflow prevention devices on those pipes sometimes the tide is so high it comes up over the seaw wall and Halifax
goes underwater anyway right um but once you get to US1 US1 is higher so the water won't physically get over US1 so if we put backflow prevention devices on the west side of US1 it can prevent the water at least from going into the lower Ling areas on the west side of US1
gotcha so you have to be strategic with how you do it just one one more thing on this map and I don't have my pointer so I'm going to have to exit out of the zoom here but if you look at these two right here you'll notice that we have a blue arrow facing a purple arrow and so that's
going to come into play later on in in the in the presentation where we have a major or our biggest gravity outfall in the Nova Canal system meets at the same place our largest pump station outfall in the Cambridge Canal Pump Station they meet at the same place so and and when we start going over the the projects
later we try to address that situation J can I ask you a question please so back to uh King High Tides storm surge water's coming over Halifax it's pushing all the way to us water right we've been very fortunate we haven't had a direct
hit from the Atlantic most of our storms come from the southwest we have high tides due to high winds we have King High tidde St to the lunar um when it rains 22 in on the other side of us one what do
we do with that water I mean we got a storm surge we got 22 inches of rain so that's an excellent question and and not to not to get you too far in advance but that's when you have to turn what we call mechanical means AKA pumping we have to pump that water so you can't overcome those Tides if you pump water
apparently we don't have those mechan we have a couple of smaller pump stations um along that Corridor that that we do have but you'll see as I go through some of the projects um that's a lot of times the solution we landed on thank good y that was that one so that
was just kind of the brief history of you know kind of big picture basins into canals ponds canals and ditches into outfalls and and kind of how all the all the system ties together next we're going to look at some of the causes of flooding in Port Orange um and we're
going to really focus focus on Hurricane Ian and hurricane Milton because those are our two most severe flooding storms that we've had and we're going to start off by kind of taking a step back in time and taking a look at um how when development and
where development occurred in Port Orange and the timing of that development associated with storm water regulations so if you if you look at the map on the the map if you look at the Shaded area the Shaded area is the area of the city that was primarily developed
prior to 1990 um so we had about 12,000 homes developed prior to 1990 and that's about 54% of all the homes in Port Orange not all of them in that shaded area but the vast majority of them are in that shaded
area and why is 1990 important well in the in going in through the mid 80s into the late 80s the federal government the state government was developing storm water regulations and how to how to manage storm water and then and November of 1990 the city formally adopted our
specific storm water design criteria that we still using a lot of that criteria today obviously we we we've developed and and and and kind of advanced that criteria but starting in November of 1990 is when the city started we had those specific design criteria for storm water regulations so
over the half of the homes in the city were constructed prior to storm water regulations that's an important thing to note this next slide is um very colorful first of all and as you'll see on the and and for a point of reference because
it might be kind of hard to see um this right here is so this line right here this is Nova Road this is dun Lon Avenue right here you have your b19 Canal here and then your Nova Canal comes down Nova turns into the Halifax Canal once it turns
East on Canal View continues down Spruce Creek Road and ultimately into Rose Bay so what what this slide is showing is basically it's showing the elevations of the city with your with your lighter yellows and greens indicating lower elevations and if you'll notice you know
that that Nova Road Corridor primarily east of Nova Road is where the lowest elevations we have in the city and as you start moving West towards like Clyde moris and then and then beyond that and you start get into the orange and the Reds the elevations in the city goes up I'm actually shocked we have anywhere in
the city that has 50 55 ft above sea level I was we were actually when we saw that 20 some years I I couldn't tell you where that is henel road yeah that's you're right he's he's 100% correct that's and we were surprised when we saw that as well we were like where is that at and that's actually indicated by this
kind of there's a there's a ridg line that runs kind of diagonally through the city and that's and that's what that white indicates your skateboard go to Hansel rad I like Elementary I used to ride my bike down there that's the only spot I know of yeah so the other other
thing of note on this kind of a little a little Preamble is is you'll notice we have uh an outline you know kind of white and black outline with numbers in them and we're going to talk about all those areas coming up in the presentation because those are areas we focused on for flood prevention projects
or flood mitigation projects okay so now we're going to start talking about FEMA special flood Hazard areas um and so a little bit of History so the FEMA flood maps or as we know them is flood insurance rate Maps they were really
developed in the 60s and they were really prompted by the national flood insurance program and they were meant to encourage home ownership and to protect properties from against flooding so these are federal Maps these are maps that are developed by the federal government in in association with the
the national flood insurance program and of note on this map we have shaded in green is the flood zone AE is is is shaded in green and the AE indicates that it's a flood zone with a base flood
elevation established meaning in those areas in green these maps have identified that at this elevation usually it's around five or six or seven depending on what area in the city that's where they anticipate the flood water to be in those shaded areas
so if you develop in those you can develop in these in these special flood Hazard areas with Bas blood elevations today but you have to put the finished floor elevation or the the floor elevation where your floor is at has to be a minimum of 1 foot above that base
blood elevation so if your base blood elevation is at five the minimum your floor can be is at elevation six and since 2014 and that's been determined by that that's FEMA's mandate that's FEMA's elevation and that's I believe that's city code right Tim
that's that that's the city code okay the minimum right now is at seven right it it depends on it depends on the area I didn't think it was on any area the minimum is seven base flood elevation is FEMA but the the elevation the extra foot we
added in our code so that yeah yeah and we we do have some areas with the base FL elevation of five which would make your minimum floor elevation six okay basically um and so since 2014 we've we've only had about 337 homes constructed in the zone AE and
all of those have obviously their finished floor above one foot above that that base blood um but we still have approximately 5,000 homes that are in that zone AE that are either at or less than one foot above or
above that base flood elevation so that's still a lot of homes that that they're they're imp perel W okay so now we're going to get into really start to get into some of the some of the causes of the most recent flooding and this this graphic is one I think we probably showed before we've
seen shown this one before but it it really does tell a tale right so hurricane Ian and hurricane Milton both were very similar storms and and that they were they were fairly slow moving storms they were you know low low
cap ones or even even Ian was a a a tropical storm when it came over Port Orange it wasn't even hurricane status when it came over but the thing that they both had in common is the when when the I exited the state it was just south of Port Orange and that puts us in that
Northeast quadrant and as we know we call that that's the dirty side of the storm right so that's and that Northeast quadrant that's known for your high higher rain totals and your more severe weather so we caught we caught a little bit of a lot of bad luck I should say from those storms being just how they
tracked across the state they went really really slow and dumped a lot of rain on us this is really just kind of kind of follows up with the previous slide except for so after Hurricane Ian and hurricane Milton myself and Public Works staff and and management staff we we we
have visited dozens and dozens and dozens of residents right we've talked to dozens of residents on the phone at their houses and for some of the some of the longer term residents that the residents that have lived here for a long time we heard we started to hear a common theme I've lived here 20 years I've lived here 30 years I've lived here
40 years I've never flooded how is that possible so well let's try to figure that out why is that possible so we went and did a deep dive and we did some heavy Research into 100 Years of rainfall event here in Florida so we went back a 100 years and we we grafted
all of the largest rainfall events we had in those past 100 years and as you can see with the exception of of 1924 was just a little bit before my time we had we had a 15-inch rain event we don't know the results of that rain event we just know that we got that rain
event and really up until up until we got to to 2010 with with that or the 2009 May 2009 event we didn't really have anything over that over that that 11 in of rain and and why that line is important that Red Line you see there that that red
line is our that's where our standard is right now so you basically you design a storm water system today your storm water system has to hold that 11 plus inches of rain before it starts releasing water so that's kind of the the dividing line and we have we have it
divided into pre-1990 and post 1990 kind of going back to pre-regulation post regulations and as you can see from this slide hurricane Ian again hurricane Ian and hurricane Milton the two Lar largest rain producing events that the city has had in the last 100
years actually before I saw this graph I had so being born and raised here I was born in 1970 um not 1924 but being born and raised here you know growing up you you perceive things and you think okay when I was a kid I remember this storm and and what have you and I remember Hurricane David in
1979 we lived in Lantern Park in South Daytona now closely a buts to to Port Orange um and I remember rowing a Blue Canoe up and down the street for 3 days after that storm um and it didn't have anywhere near double digit impacts but I had before I saw this graph trying to
trying to put a lot of this in my perspective as well because I think before you know where you're going you got to know where you've been and what's what these numbers really mean and and so I went back and I was impressed at the data that is actually available to go back into the 70s 60s and 50s on
calculated rainfall not not just from Nam storms but by by any uh searchable content I mean it's it's pretty impressive the other thing I wanted to just make note is when we're looking at these numbers this is rainfall in 24 hours right yeah so these are these are 24hour
totals that we so one of the things I thought saw was interesting in some of the data I looked at was the was some events you know you you think 8 Ines in 24 hours is a lot of rain but if that 8 Ines Falls in 3 hours that that can be
as catastrophic as 11 or 12 in in a lot of a lot of the scenarios from some some of the data that I've been looking at and seeing so I I think when it comes to how much rainfall it's important for us to also understand how fast that rain comes in
in terms of I know you're going to talk about projects about how much water can we move no and so and so that that's actually an excellent point because a lot of times we do get focused on just you know it's 11 in 11 in 11 in but as you indicated that that rainfall intensity is almost as important as the total amount of rain that you got and
and in my next slide I'm actually going to going to show you something that kind of kind of kind of proves us that so so this slide shows basically the past 10 years of of storm events that we've had or 20 years I'm sorry 20 years of storm events and then the the
map shows uh damage in the city associated with hurricane Ian and hurricane Milton and primarily this is flooding damage I'll give you a quick Zoom so that it's a little bit easier to see the see the map and as you can see so the the big green line with arrows that's
the Nova Canal system as you can see that that that that system and again it's on the east side of the city the lower Ling portions of the city the portions of the city that were developed prior to storm water regulations is where we had our most flooding occurrences
happened and so again focusing on hurricane in and hurricane Milton uh hurricane Ian 20 plus inches of rain over a thousand structures flooded and then for Hurricane Milton you see that our rainfall total was just over 15 in
and yet we had more structures flooded for Hurricane Milton so we really started diving into the data on that and and and we actually heard a lot of a lot of you know firsthand witness of the data that we're going to we're going to talk about so for Hurricane Milton just
what you said previously between the hours of 2: a.m. and 5:00 a.m. we got almost 10 Ines of that rain so 10 inches of rain at 3 hours that's that's unheard of that's unpublished type rainfall intensity so you don't see that kind of rainfall intensity you don't model for that rain kind of kind of intensity you
don't design for that kind of intensity on top of all that we had a title surge associated with the storm and I and I went back and looked at the tide charts and high tide at Pon Inlet was at 2:45 a.m. so as we're getting
nailed with these with these in high high high intensity rain bands we got title surge coming in on us and we're sitting at high tide so it was it was literally you know everything wrong that could have happened at that time did and that is why we had so we had
more flooding with less rain so so mayor you hit the nail on the head with sometimes you you get so focused on the amount of rain but you got to also pay attention on how how much time that rain fell in I think one other thing in this too though you know is that um the amount of rain that we actually took in
the two weeks before the storm we were really really saturated before these storms came so we were already at a disadvantage yeah and that's something that you can't tell you you know you'd have to go back and check the data on that prior to this this rain I I actually did go back and check that one
I because we we have some we have some really nice high-tech uh weather stations we have one at the EOC which is located at the police department and we have one on the east side out of Public Works so I was kind of combing through the rainfall data and I did I went I went back it was about 10 days prior we had over inch of rain in in those 10
days prior so we were we were all of the the ponds were full everything was was trying to as we call in the industry was trying to recover so your Pawn gets filled up your pawns are trying to recover your systems are trying to recover and before they had a chance to fully recover we got we got hit with hurricane
Milton which is the same thing you know you look at these numbers 267 homes on Hurricane Francis 20 years ago you know that was Charlie Francis jeene we got the flooding then because we were already saturated at the same time and that was 9 in of rain then and that and
that if I remember correctly H kanane Francis was one of those where it was 9 Ines of rain but that was spread out over you know 12 or 15 hours right so it wasn't it wasn't that incredibly high high intensity rains that we we really saw those for Hurricane Ian but then when hurricane Milton came you know he
said you know pardon my friend hold my beer right let me show you what rainfall really is right yeah okay so that's kind of the first part where we've looked at the storm water systems how they function where they go kind of looked at some of the some of the root causes of the flooding from Hurricane
Ian and hurricane Milton now we're going to start talking about some of the ongoing actions some of the planning actions that we've been taking and some of the maintenance and repair actions that we do as well as a city so the first thing is storm water master plan that's what we're here talking about tonight as manager
indicated we're we're about 95% complete with the master plan I have draft of the plan that I'm currently reviewing um and so really what we're doing right now is we have a we we've developed a matrix to try to prioritize these projects so really finalizing that prioritization
Matrix to prioritize the projects and probably the the most important thing is trying to figure out how we're going to pay for all these projects because none of these projects are cheap unfortunately or not cheap but not cost effective cost effective thank you
councilman gra I appreciate that and then so at the same time as we're doing the master plan we're doing what we call a vulnerability assessment and this is something that a couple of years ago the state came up with this resilient Florida program and then so the resilient Florida program is a
program that makes you eligible for grant money to to to build projects before you can be eligible to apply for grant money to build projects you have to perform a vulnerability assessment on your city we received a grant from D from FD to perform this assessment
we're about 75% done with that assessment so once we complete the storm water or the vulnerability assessment we package that up and we send that to FTE they review it and once they accept the vulnerability assessment then we're eligible to apply for what they call implementation grants or construction
money up to 15 up to 50 % of the construction cost so if we're looking at a $20 million project we're potentially eligible for $10 million through resilient florid by doing this vulnerability assessment
having accepted by the state so it's it's kind of getting it's not lost in Shadows we're kind of doing it behind the scenes um we're working really hard and and the state's been they've actually commented a few times that they're really impressed how how efficiently and how quickly were able to get through this vulnerability is the storm water master plan part of the
vulnerability vulnerability assessment so they're and the same or they're separate but they complement each other okay yeah so there's some there's some overlap in the science and there's a little bit of overlap in the modeling as well but they are completely separate projects and then the the last thing or
the the the the next thing I'm talking about is the what we're going to call um so Watershed studies so back to I think is the first or second slide we showed the the map of the county with all the major major watersheds in it and so we're going to working with in
partnership with fuchia County through the transform 386 program the count is going to fund additional Watershed studies for us so the first one is this is the is the Nova Canal we all know that the Nova Canal is a regional drainage Canal right
it from Orman Beach through Daytona Holly Hill South Daytona and then ultimately to us with our outfall at Rose Bay so this is a regional Canal so this study we're going to do at the county is really going to kind of Kickstart Kickstart that those Regional
Solutions so we're going to with the portion we're going to do we're going to focus on you know kind of the Port Orange area but we're also going to kind of go up the canal to make sure that that things are going to H that are happening Upstream of us aren't going to have negative effects on us and so some
of the things that we'll look at in the Nova Canal study is we're going to look at the the canal itself is there anything we can do to improve storage in the canal is there anything we can do to make the canal flow more efficiently is there pinch points in the canal that we could potentially take out we're going
to take a look take a look at the re Canal outfall is there anything that can be done with the re canal outfall fall Can it can it be changed to get more storage out of it can we make that Canal more efficient can we potentially backflow that Canal so that we're not getting the huge title surges up the re
Canal because we do get a lot of a lot of what we're getting in the Nova Canal is that title push back up re that re Canal into the Nova canal and when we say we when we're talking about Nova Canal we're talking about the state we're talking about the Florida Department of Transportation they're the ones that own the canal right so so the
the fdot owns a portion of canal that runs along Nova Road and once that Canal turns East on Canal View that then turns into a county Canal so it's kind of a joint again to the regional of that Canal it's it's state and then and then it's County and and we we attended a
presentation where the County Public Works director a couple weeks ago made it a very he wanted to make sure that everybody understood that he did not maintain that Canal on on Nova Road or on that state road that so it really is it's it's multi-jurisdictional it's state it's County it's local governments
and we all really have to to work together to come up with solutions that not only we don't want a solution that just works for Port Orange or just works for South [Music] Daytona good for me just take a message and I'll call back sorry I'm sorry that's okay yeah we're really we're
really trying to focus on solutions that are that are going to help up and down the canal with obviously Port Orange for us being the most important so we go ahead go we we talk about like Port Orange being the bottom of the funnel so to speak because everything's got to go out ponet at some point right so those I
know this is probably going to sound like a stupid question but I'm going to ask it anyway does all of the Nova Canal do you know does it all flow to the South I know there's a couple of outfalls before you get to us but predominantly everything flows South right there are a couple of outfalls to the north of us the closest one being
the Reed Canal outfall but primarily it does flow north to south okay with with our outfall into Rose being being the ultimate outfall for that system do you know if any of the stuff in like Holly Hill and Orman flows north into tamoka or does is is there's fling South also so so kind of going back to those those
drainage basins so the idea behind a drainage basin is if if you're in the Nova Canal drainage basin every drop of water that flows that drops in that goes to Nova canal and Nova Canal does not flow up into the tamoka river okay that thanks so I will just I will just
preface that with saying the b19 Basin flows into Spruce Creek so that's a basin kind of flowing into a basin okay wh why does it why does it flow South just curious I mean the land flat or whatever it's probably the pull of the inlet gravity so so the the in in
normal tide conditions the the the tide is slightly lower so there is some some gradient or some fall with that system but it's it's practically flat but with the ultimate outfall being slightly lower so T things are going to tend to flow north north to south so question
dealing with the Nova Road Canal as it goes south you you talked about the county and the state owning pieces of it as it go south who owns the end of it is the end still in their hands or is it us so so it's it's the can it's the Cy's
Canal until its outfall underneath Nova Road into the little there's like a little creek system that kind of by the go-kart track area yeah that that that kind of flows South and ultimately it flows underneath the railroad tracks yeah um into Rose Bay that's after it goes down Canal Street yes that's
correct the turn and the county owns it until then that's correct um the question question I was going to have because this is a multi-jurisdictional canal um correct me if I'm wrong this Nova Canal has been causing problems for South Daytona and and further cities
it's all the way up so it's it benefits everyone for us to get together to find a solution that might improve that absolutely yeah it's it's a it's a regional drainage system in order to fix this it's going to require Regional solutions that that's something we are able to do from our seats because we can
work with our County officials state officials and even other uh Council people at other cities uh to help just kind of Lobby there and talk to them um I've had great conversations with uh councilman Sanders in South Daytona Matt
Reinhardt at the county so those those are things that we can do from our seats to just you know make sure they understand how important it is to us and and to everyone and the County's been a great partner to us so we're really looking forward to working with the county on this and and and and strengthening that relationship with the county because they can they can be a
really great Ally for us absolutely I've heard a lot of comments about I don't understand why we don't dig it deeper and I kind of know why fill it up you can't dig it deeper because it'll clops in on itself well and ground water is there and and once you once you reach
groundwater you can't once you if your groundwater's sitting here I mean I'll take the bottle of water right so if this is your groundw you can take this bottle of water and you could dig it down another 100 ft but you don't get any more storage in that bottle than where that water level's at so that that's the main reason why digging it
now establishing the bottom where it should be is important but just going in and and digging it deeper it's not a solution got and the history of that Canal was it designed for this so it it was not originally
designed for this I and and this is similar with with most of the major canals they are originally constructed as mosquito control canal something to drain the low-lying areas to allow for development thank you same with the b19
b19 is absolutely that yeah and so thank you for that for that U segue so the the other other uh important Watershed study we're going to do at the county is the b19 canal now we don't have the widespread flooding along the b19 canal like we do along the Nova
Canal but we do have pockets and Willow Run and some of the areas going north up towards meline so but the thing about the b19 that's that's really unique um to itself is if you're familiar with like if you know where the LA you know where the LA Fitness is over there on I
call it East Taylor Road for lack of a better term there's a little bridge that goes over the b19 canal as you head east towards Spruce Creek High School MH so just Upstream of that bridge there's a uh a weir a flow control Weir that's that's been installed what a weir is so
a weir in essence is a wall so they built a wall in the channel and the water has to rise up to the level of that wall wall before it flows over so that that holds the water back and so one of the things we've immediately identified that we're going to we're going to we're going to proof this out
in in the study is there's something we can do with that Weir is can we put a gate on the wear to pre-stage that Canal can we make it an adjust this what can we do at that point because we know where our our point of constriction or our point of issue is on that b19 Canal
so that's going to be one of the major things we're going to look at with that b19 study another thing we're going to do and this can be a fairly short-term solution is the city has a lot of um we have a lot of pipes that discharge or outfall into that b19 canal and we're going to look at where it makes sense to
to put backflow prevention devices on those pipes that flow into the b19 so if the b19 stages up as long as it doesn't spill over its banks and it stages up we can prevent that water from flowing back into the streets that that particular area that you're talking about because I know we've had that conversation what if
if we can find a better process there at that Weir what areas do you believe that directly benefits so that mostly the Cambridge area no so the b19 that directly benefits the the Willow Run area that far that far south
that Weir does yes absolutely I follow I'll follow you okay and that B9 is the one that runs behind colony in the woods that was going to be that's correct that's literally maybe 4 ft across that's correct correct for b19 where
he's talking about for you guys to understand is where it comes through on meline you got the Twin Lakes through meline it's the next little bridge that you cross so it heads North it goes up to Pelican Bay Area it comes down
between sunset uh Cove in Cross Creek then it winds down through uh into Willer run and me and Jos had lengthy conversations about this you know we have all these projects to try to help the mitigation of flooding in major
areas but it's also making sure that we're not doing proactiveness on stuff that's coming down the road um and those areas had heavy flooding you know we've had two major storm events we've never had water standing in our gutters but now we
got knee deep water in the roads in all these areas the the fortunate part was is the homes didn't flood in that area but if you don't start addressing it in time it could happen so what he's talking about on this Weir was brought up
because I came in with a video the same video he took probably two hours before me and going it's a kayak uh class two Rapids coming off the wear so everything down south of that had no water standing
or flooding off the banks south of that wear but you had water flooding to the north so it's how do you mitigate that wear to point make the point of getting the Headwater off of it right excellent point thank you where
does the B9 team start I know I'm looking at the map on page the b19 starts just just kind of south of the airport okay kind of kind of where the speedway in the airport at so it's another it's slightly multi- jurisdictional as well but once again it
all comes to us seeing a Fame yeah we are why they have port in all right so uh and this is not my my
area of expertise by any stretch of the imagination this is something that primarily our committee Development Department is working on but it it's just another thing that the city's working on there's multiple programs that are out there to help individual homeowners um FEMA being the first one um FEMA we have a lot of and I I think
the unique thing is is with FEMA the FEMA grants first of all take a long time to process we're still waiting for responses back from Hurricane in on for the through the FEMA process and then the city has to be the applicant on those on those grants and then so the state did a really good thing early in
2024 they developed a program called um if I get it correctly it's called Elevate Florida and that's run through the Florida Department of Environmental or no Florida Department of Emergency Management runs that program and the the idea behind that it's going to be basically a mirror or a very similar
program to what the federal government or what FEMA is doing but their idea is they want to they want to take those time frames and cut them in half or or even greater than that they want they want these Grant process to move very quickly and these these grants the individual homeowners apply for these
grants correct Tim okay thank you and then the other thing that's available for the individual homeowners is is going back to the transfering 386 through the county there are some individual assistance available through the county and I know the county is holding I think they actually held a couple of work workshops today for the
individual assistants um so there's there's a lot of so aside from the big Regional storm water projects that we're going to try to try to construct it's going to help a lot of people there's a lot of one-offs that maybe it doesn't make sense to do a $5 million project for three homes or something like that
that's where these other programs become really important because there's still something available for those homeowners ju just a quick comment on on the FEMA stuff is that one of the things and frustrations we have as as City that some of you will will that'll sit up
here for a while we we'll find out is that FEMA which is federal government seems to change with the presidencies so and and natural disasters so when you you had a major incident many many years ago in New Jersey FEMA found out that a lot of people were skimming money and doing things they shouldn't have been
doing with it it created a slew of blanketed restrictions and changes which changed how we did a lot of the stuff but we are not bigger than FEMA and um regardless of what happens we we need to adhere to the regulations and the stipulations in order to be able to get
our residents access to those dollars however they are wherever they are and how we ever need to get there because they they really are that important and and I only mention that because obviously with the with the new president in Washington DC now we've already heard that there's an interest in getting rid of FEMA so we will we
will continue to watch that closely and and make Jus accordingly so yes all right so just very quickly um these are the we're just going to talk about some ongoing actions that that that we as a city do and I just want to preface that by saying this these are
not actions we started after Hurricane Ian all these things I'm I'm going to talk about are things we've been doing for decades I just think it's important to to see what we're out there doing on a daily basis right so the first first thing we'll go back to the ditches right so with with
14 miles of ditches again a third of the total ditches that we have in this the city the city is is responsible for maintaining and so this is a yearr round activity for us so we're we're in these ditches uh and a lot of these ditches are really really hard to get to so it's not like you can just some of them you
can drive up next to a road you can clean the ditch and drive away other ones are very difficult to get to you we have limited access to get back to and so even when we get back to them we have to have really specialized pieces of equipment to get into these ditches you can kind of see so we have what we call
our Kaiser here down in a ditch in the in the muck and in the ditch running and and part of these really specialized pieces of equipment you got to have a highly skilled operator to get in there and run that piece of equipment to make sure you're you're not doing damage to the to the to the banks of the of the of the ditch so you're making sure you're cleaning it appropriately
and getting the material out that needs to get out uh just real quick so we have over 5,000 drainage inlets in the city and so this is a this is a constant thing we're doing we're we're repairing you know that this is what we call the apron to the inlet so these things are getting broken all the time so we're always out
there repairing these and sometimes we're even going out and and replacing inlets alog together if they if they've been damaged or broken for something like that so this is an ongoing activity for us corrugated metal pipe so going back
to the you know 70s and 80s when we were when we were developing half of the city uh it was common practice in that in those days to use what they call corrugated metal pipe or CMP for the roadway drainage infrastructure for the pipes underneath the roads that's going to capture the roadway drainage and and
Route it to a a pond or route it to a canal and due to our high groundwater so the groundwater in the older parts of the city is really high maybe a foot or two below the surface sometimes and these metal pipes sitting in that water for decades and decades and decades they
corrode and they rot away and you see a really good example of that right there so you see that piece of pipe that was underneath the road and so so when those pipes fail it's causes not only do you have to fix a pipe you got to dig up the road
you got to fix the road and those those are very expensive fixes so what we're trying to do to be proactive with that is we also have another method we could do it's a trenchless method and it's called cured in place pipe lining so you basically have a liner that's
impregnated with a resin an epoxy type resin and so they run that piece that they run that liner all the way through this piece of pipe that needs to be fixed or or rehabbed and you you seal off one in and you inject either hot steam or hot water into that into that liner and it blows that liner up to
adhere to the to to match that the diameter of that of the pipe and then from the heat it sets that resin off and so as that resin sets off and C you end up with a brand new piece of pipe inside your old piece of pipe so much less you're not digging up roads most of the
time you're not having to do major repairs so we're being very proactive with trying to trying to get out into the older areas and find these pipes before they fail and line them and just just as a point of reference we have about 12 miles of the CMP remaining in the city and if we if
we fund it at a million dollars a year it's still going to take us almost 15 years to to get all that pipe either replaced or lined so this we will be doing this for quite some time okay the next thing is street sweeping I like to call this our our first line of
defense first line of defense for our for our drainage system so we're sweeping the roads just basically trying to get as much debris leaves branches oils and grime off the road before they get down into our drainage system for the stuff that we can't get with our street sweepers then we have to
physically get into those drainage systems and clean them and this this might be my favorite piece of equipment that we own um so I'll spend a little bit of time talking about it um so this is what we call our vac truck or our vac conon and if you can see that that you have a big hose that comes down it's basically a a really really really big
vacuum cleaner that's got a lot of suction power and also it's a little bit harder to see but there's an an orange hose that comes on a reel on the on the front of that piece of pipe so what you do is you get that that that hose which is a jet hose and there's a jet nozzle that goes on the front of that hose and
it's got backwards facing Jets kind of like a jet engine face backward to push you forward so you put that jet nozzle in your piece of pipe you you turn you turn the jet on a little bit and it and it pulls itself through the pipe and those hose reels are usually 3 to 500t long so you know you get a couple
hundred feet out of there and then you really crank the pressure up you get it up to you know 34 5,000 PSI in some of these jet hoses and you turn your vacuum cleaner on and then the hose Rael slowly reels itself back in meanwhile pushing all the all that dirt grime and debris
back to that vacuum and we're sucking up into that vacuum truck the next one is just this is just simply you know clearing curb lines and and and and and manually clearing a lot of work and I'm just going to take a a quick second here in the presentation to recognize our Public Works staff that
are out there doing this work so these are true First Responders in my opinion so during the hurricane I work the EOC a lot of times we'll get a call from from police and fire saying we got a call on this road but there's a tree down so what do we do we call Public Works hey Tom can you get your can you get your
stuff out there fire needs to get to this house or police need to respond to this emergency so they're clearing trees uh there's a tree falling on a house we can't get into the house to to to try to rescue this person so these guys are there cutting the cutting the limbs they're cutting the tree down so um I
just wanted to just take a quick minute to to to point out that these guys were out here working during the storm in Peril and then once the storm is has passed and the flood waters recede they're still not done um a lot of First Responders our police officers
and our firefighters they go back to somewhat normal operations that's when these guys turn into now they're now they're driving tuck pulling debris off and and collecting collecting the debris from the roads so after Hurricane Milton they work the entire storm through the storm and immediately following the
storm they're working 12-hour days seven days a week collecting collecting debris for almost three months so just a quick shout out to those guys if you see him out there just tell him thank you and that you appreciate him this this happens to be Andrew right here he's a really good guy can we pause you for just one second
please do all right so before uh before uh junos goes into the storm water master plan anybody have any specific questions about the information he's already kind of covered this has been more historic and and how we're designed as a city and laid out PL yeah so a
couple things um so how many of these vacuum trucks does the city own so our Public Works we own what two BR two so I took uh Port orang University and I learned that those trucks cost
$800,000 approximately I would say in in today's market you're going to be $6 $800,000 one of those trucks and it takes special people to run those trucks does and and to man these trucks and to to keep these trucks on is quite expensive and and and quite an Endeavor
um moving forward do you think the city needs an additional vacuum truck or trucks so I would I would leave that up to the folks that are to running that department uh it seems like we're probably okay with that piece of equipment but I would defer that I would defer that to the public works staff at
this point um so the vulnerability study that you're that you're mentioning that is different from this storm water plan that we're doing yes sir so we're doing both of them at the same time and one of them is 90% done but these others only 70% the vulnerability assess and the
vulnerability assessment because it's a it's a it's a state program that they put together and they they give you a grant to do the to do the vulnerability assessment and they have very specific deliverables and very specific tasks that they want to see you do and you have to do them in a in a sequential order and you as you as you complete a
task you submit a task and they accept the task so we're we're through tasks nine of 13 on that so would you for see us being done with that so we should be done with that here in the next couple of months so is it is the timing of both of them kind of coming at the same time or yes they are we we'll probably we'll be done with the master plan a little
bit before the the vulnerability assessment and then we have to like like I said we have to submit that assessment to D and then they have to they'll do a full through review of the whole thing Al together and then once they accept that then we can start applying for the for the resilient Florida grants okay and then I guess I got one more comment
I'm going to make and and and I'm going to leave this to you the engineers but for years and years and years we've relied on gravity to to take storm water away um and I think we're at a point now where we need to Force this and the only
way to do that is going to be with Force main pumps yes I think you'll find that once we start going through the projects I'll explain how we we always initially when we try to develop these these flood mitigation projects we always tried to go with the gravity solution first
because a gravity solution is the most economical way to to do it but when you don't get the benefit you need from those from those gravity Solutions then you have to turn to Mechanical means which is most of the time pumping and you're saying currently we only have a couple of force pumps now so
we have we have our our our Cambridge Canal Pump Station which is our largest pump station we have a and that pump goes to where though it's only pumping over the levy it it pumps to directly into Rose Bay right so kind of over kind of on the wrong side of the rail track right correct okay all right so when
when we move forward we're going to talk about that project yes yes I'll get i'll get into when when I start getting into the projects I'm going to I'm going to give you an update on on that project that the the Cambridge project that isn't necessarily part of the master plan but we're we're working on so I'll give you an update on that here in just a minute all right thank you great point
and I'm just going to uh tag on to that for a second and and maybe ask Wayne to weigh in so when we using this phrase vulnerability assessment most people don't know what it is and what the history of that is so there was a time where if you had a project in your city and you needed State Appropriations and
and funding you take the project you go to Tallahassee you pitch your project and you hope to get funding out of that legislative session well Wayne can weigh in but that has changed now and for the most part what they want to do is the legislature being signed by the governor they want to take a certain amount of
funding and put it in a special category and then they want you to go and apply through that process as opposed to going up there and meeting with your legislative representatives and pitching your project and all that kind of stuff so that has changed that vulnerability
assessment is a condition in order now to go to resilient Florida for the funding so you can't where they put the money now you can't can't even go try to get it until you do this part that the state is requiring did I get that pretty close correct they wanted to make sure
that we were on equal footing so everybody had to go into a competitive Grant process that used the same rules so you weren't in a position where if your Senator was more influential than someone else's you might not get money based on need and so they put the vast majority of the that in there and a
minimum requirement to be eligible is having a vulnerability assessment so that that's how they were trying to move a lot of the program whether it's Parks programs or anything at the state level is away from member-based Appropriations and into competitive grants where all the communities can
equally compete and the if there's any good news to that process is it seems like we are farther along than a lot of cities in the state of Florida that that may be another year or two out before they can even try to get money out of that so the vulnerability study really it realistically has nothing to do with
with our Master storm water plan our Master storm water plan is for our youth I guess and and and and to know what projects we need to do to help save homes but the vulnerability study is how you go get the funding right yeah that's a a very good uh summation of it
okay it it always comes back to the word funding yeah absolutely and you know when and we're going to be having a funding meeting here in the next couple months am I correct right for our budget and uh these we'll be talking about this
again and and as I think you'll see um funding is going to be critical because a lot of these projects are are are quite expensive yeah and and way I understand it is we're we're good at getting grant money and we're good at having our own money but not all of it
and when we were in Tallassee and talking to them we we were sharing with them not only how far along we were with the studies but the fact that we're not we're asking for a little less than 50% because of the work that you all have done already setting money aside so yeah
that that the local match is always very important the the local match is important and I have projects that are ready to construct are important and and everything you've talked about outside of just maintaining on a daily basis the amount of miles that we have uh and so
forth nothing happens overnight you know when we go and apply for this stuff you know I don't understand why we have to wait well it's because it takes a long time to get anyone from up there or from the state from the national like FEMA
you know it takes a long time and and many of these grants have what they call Grant Cycles where they open up a a cycle and it's like typically a three or four month Grant cycle and if you don't get your application in then you got to wait till to the next year in the grant cycle and that's kind of where we're at with the vulnerability assessment we're
going to miss this year's Grant cycle because we're not going to be quite done so we're going to we're going to be able to get in next year's Grant cycle and we don't have any control over that yeah um just a couple of terminologies I want you to clarify one and and just for for Council and for
everybody following along with what these this is all about when we use the word flooding we're talking about our interest and priority of keeping water out of homes and businesses streets flooding that's something we we can work on later and get to but can you explain
what a closed loop system is and how some of the neighborhoods built prior to the 9s I know it sounds odd but the roads are designed to be the retention area can you talk about that briefly so so the the way that it was so we didn't
have specific design criteria for storm water so the the engineers were designing to the to the to to the code of the day and they knew that they had to at least channelize and and take that storm water somewhere so they account they they used the roads to temporarily store and channelize that water so the
roads were the storm water system de facto in a lot of these older neighborhoods and really it was just a means to get it to an existing Canal or trying to get it to to to a pond or something like that but so yes you're correct that that the roads were in essence designed as the storm water
system and and and lastly and I'll move on to these folks here I want you to touch on this because I hear this a lot from residents who are asking me questions and they've heard a term and they've kind of misunderstood what that is the difference between Pump Station
lift station and a force main pump because not everything is pumping storm water it's pumping other things so just touch on that so we make sure we're clear so a lot of the terminologies do cross over so typically you you have your lift what we call a lift and and
I'll go so far say sanitary lift stations so we have a lot of sanitary lift stations that take the sanitary sewer from your house from your your showers your washers your dryers your toilets that go into a gravity system that flow into a to to a wet well is
what we call or big well and these lift stations take that take that sewage and pump it to our Wastewater Plant for treatment so and then they and they flow through what we call a sanitary Force main and all that is is it's it's a main that you're forcing water through and so
but not storm water not storm water right but we still use that same term in storm water because it's in essence mechanically it's the same thing the pump really doesn't care if it's pumping sanitary sewer or if it's pumping storm water the the the main difference is is these these storm water
pumping stations we'll try to use pumping station for the storm water and lift station for the sewer just as it kind of to designate the two these are much bigger much much bigger so just for a point of reference uh a typical sanitary lift station your pumps are
going to pump a couple hundred gallons a minute our smallest storm water pumping station is thousands of gallons a minute our largest excuse me down at Cambridge one pump down at Cambridge can pump 48,000 gallons a minute so we're moving
a lot more water when you're pumping storm water than when you are Mar with sanitary sewer so the pumps are bigger the pipes are bigger the stations are bigger so because you're moving a lot more water I think one of the other things that you see a lot where the confusion comes is there's about 120 sewer lift stations in the city four
Regional and about 115 smaller was there a ton of them and that's what people see more frequently there's only five or so actual storm water pumps that we have so most of the time when you see one of those bumps it's part of the sewer system correct Tracy anything else
before we move on the only thing uh we're just because we talked about the Weir real quickly is um maybe a presentation with a uh a pump station with float valve switches to Dam over the we just as an ideal that's actually
a really good idea and I had thought about that yet so we're going to put that on the list of things to look at in the study okay read uh just want to touch on the cor grad metal pipe because I know that we've actually gone to Tallahassee and and brought back some extra funds for that we we've used I mean we've gotten
what I think two or three times what we usually did up until the last three years uh we're able to speed that up um in talking about that we're saying you know a million a year take 15 years it's still $15 million I guess my question is just when
it comes to that pipe is there any chance do how much of that pipe do we know is collapsed not not that has to be replaced but we know that is absolutely collapsed and so so typically you don't know collaps until the road above it fails okay so there's a lot of that pipe
that's in the that's probably has um some failure points to it but a lot of times what we find and and talking to our our storm water staff is they they'll go and they they'll dig up a piece of pipe and the top of the pipe is completely corroded away but somehow the Earth above it has stayed in the shape of the pipe so the pipe's gone but the
Earth is still there and then a lot of times what happens is if you get a big rain event where you get a big flush in there and that pipe gets it capacity that pushes up on that dirt and then brings that dirt down and then that's where you start to have the failures gotcha okay we saw that really a really good example of that is uh meline Avenue
after Hurricane Ian we had a we had a big hole open up and that was we had a basically a failed corrugated metal pipe that when that pipe got to capacity it just the whole top of it fell in yeah it's the Good Good Earth that we have on
the US one area comes Co it's got some coina mixed in there so it does give it a little bit of structural stability y very yes and just one more thing real quick um I already asked the city manager um to put this presentation this is more for the
audience uh this presentation with all these slides I've asked him to make a Facebook post and put that on there tonight when this is over because I see a lot of y'all taking photos with your phones and everything else I want you to be able to like listen take notes and really soak it all in so tonight whenever this is over we will get that
whole presentation on to Facebook so you guys can be able to access it easy that way I want you guys to be able to really listen to everything being said and not be worried about taking pictures of the slides due to the due to the size because it's a massive file we may have to look at potentially a website link or
something like that okay yeah whatever we can do obviously I like someone asked me if we're going to print it off and give copies it's 56 pages so don't think that's going to work but um we can get it online for everyone so just as we transition now from talking about the past and the history into the future I
do think it's important I know there's you can sense it and we've been talking to people since the two hurricane this frustration about what Port Orange has done in the past and I fully understand it but as we're moving forward I think it's important to note we didn't put Juno got in this role just he's two-year anniversary right now
as the city engineer in this role the leadership of the public works department two years in that role uh in the two years this is following Ian he he came into my office I'd started a little before Ian he came in my office one day after the storm and within like an hour and a half explained to me our
storm water system in a very short period of time uh we have a master plan almost done a vulnerability assessment with Grant eligibility almost done the Cambridge project is well underway in design and the meline Pepper Hill is already under design they've done this in in a matter of about two years and I
know everybody wish we'd done that 15 20 30 years ago but and you can be mad about the past but we have to move forward and start making improvements and mad about the past doesn't fix the future so uh I I just want to make sure that as people listen to him talk he's not why we're in this spot he's here
solving the problem and moving us forward so whatever frustration don't take it out on him uh he he has moved us tremendously forward as has the public work staff that we put here two years ago so so I I get I get the frustration just it's not there it's not them
they're here to make a difference go ahead but we but we will listen so before I get into the master plan I just want to recognize once again kimley horon Associates they're the they the engineering consulting firm that we hired to perform this master plan we hired them because they're they're more
than qualified to do this they have they have industry experts they've performed these these large storm water Master plans and Watershed studies throughout Florida and really throughout the southeast and they just have vast resources available to them and and resources to an engineering company is their people they have really really good people and really really smart
people uh working for us so um we do have a couple of them here tonight um in our audience and I I appreciate you guys all showing up and and they they worked really really hard for us on this and granted we paid them for it but they they still work really hard for us
yeah okay so when we set off this project we really had three main objectives to our storm water master plan the first objective is let's analyze and figure out where the city floods existing granted we kind of already knew that but we were going to we're going to we're going to take a
we're going to analyze it we're going to make sure that we have a full understanding of where the city floods uh we're going to we wanted to evaluate our existing infrastructure and the need for repair and replace corrugated metal pipe being that primary focus of the repair and replacement so I have a full
RNR manual that they produce as part of this master plan as well that's going to help us moving forward in those 15 years so we can systematically start getting to some of this repair and replacement and to me the the most important thing that we set out to do is to develop solutions for flooding right so that's
really what we're here to talk about and that was really the primary focus of the master plan was come up with solutions to the flooding and so the master plan is is a is a document that's got a lot of information but the the heartbeat the heart and soul of that master plan is what we call a storm
water model and a storm water model is basically it's a computer simulation and so you you you you use this model to try to predict something's going to happen I'll kind of make a quick analogy to to WEA you know you have your Doppler Radars
right and you and then when they show you future Doppler radar that's a computer simulation that's predicting what the pr precipitation is going to be based on a bunch of input parameters so when we started building this model to me there's two really really important
things when you're building a model is and your data collection and your data input are probably the most important thing you're going to do so if you don't have good data to put into your model your model's not going to give you good input or output back out another really really important thing is what we call
our our our boundary conditions or our tail water conditions and that's what what's happening so that when when we do these models you know you kind of have to have a an area and and you allow water model you allow water into your model and you allow water out of your model and where the water leaves your
model we call that a tail water and so when we're when we're running these model simulations we were very very conservative with our tail Waters so meanings we're we're modeling with title surge we're modeling with King Tides we're not modeling at at low tides when everything works beautifully we're
modeling at King Tides or at tidle surge to make sure that the solutions we come up with are going to work during those conditions because that's when we need them to work the most and so you go through and collect your data we we collect infrastructure data elevation data back to the colorful
slide that showed all the different colors of elevation that got put into the model uh land use and soil are important so what is how is the land being used is it a vacant piece of property is it a is it a residential subdivision with quarter Acer Lots is it
a is it a big box commercial with almost all impervious you put that information into the model soils is important to the model do you have well drained soil where you put water on the ground it drains right into the ground or do you have soils where groundwater's High and the water doesn't drain very well so that's important in put into the model
and countless field visits so once we have once you you because we're Gathering infrastructure datab base based on asilt drawings based on permit drawings and some of these drawings are from the from the 60s and 70s so we have to go out and verify a lot of the state there a lot of field verification that went on with this we also looked at uh
uh FEMA damage reports and some City damage reports to try to really try to hone the areas that were flooding in the city and so once you put all this input into your model then you can start running simulations and you try to and and I think if I'm correct me if I'm wrong but you call it flooding the city
right you do a flood simulation so you you dump a bunch of water into your model and see where the city floods at and then you then that's when kimly horn after they did that then they would cuz it's truly was a team effort it wasn't them doing this in a vacuum they they were doing a bunch of work and they would come to the city or we'd have a
teams meeting and it would be engineering staff it'd be Public Works storm water staff it'd be our our flood management staff we'd all be kind of verifying the data we' say yeah yeah your model looks really good there but but we we don't see we don't see it happening there with the way your model's showing it so they go back and they refine the put data they refin some
of the modeling parameters until we could get to a point where they come to us and we go you know what that's exactly what we see and that's what we call a calibrated existing conditions model so our model is predicting accurately what actually happens in the city when we put a
certain amount of rainfall into that model so that that's a that's a really really big milestone once once you get to that point then you can really start to use your model as a tool cuz up into that point you're you're you're building it you're building it you're building it cuz it's not a tool for you you yet it's not a tool for you until you've
calibrated it so what you're saying is having milon unfortunately that came through was a calibration to what they had already put together as a model to back up what they're saying that that's an excellent point um
so I think it was a day or two after Milton I get I get a call from Victor hey man we're on the ground man we're just we're just in town looking around so they're they're here with their rubber boots on they're they're looking to try to make to try to make sure what their model is doing is is is accurately
predicting what happens so we had a real world calibration event basically that you don't often get when you're developing these models so we had something to happen as we're calibrating it that we can calibrate the model to so that really helped us have a lot of confidence in the model it's it's incredibly unfortunate that it happened
because we had to have so many h Homes that flooded but you know we we did use that as to to try to make our tool even better okay and so once you once you've got your calibrated model that that's where you start going okay we know we've identified these areas we call them
areas of Interest the areas that we see in the model and that we know on the ground that actually flood and then you start building scenarios that are going to try to fix this the flooding so you can say okay let's put in a storm water Pond here let's make the pipes bigger to the outfall let's you know do any number
of things and then run a simulation and see how the model response and for a lot of what we found is our gravity Solutions or our Simple Solutions the model didn't have what we call any sensitivity to it so you didn't really get any benefit so you you'd run the model before you did any Improvement
you'd put the Improvement into the model we didn't see much improvement so that's why a lot of times we ended up with a pumping solution because then you can you can tell your model okay you've got you know so many what we call cubic feet per second or so much rainfall coming into this system or this Pond we're going to pump that same amount of
rainfall out or that same amount of water out so you can you can kind of and then you start to really get some good some good benefits from from the projects and so okay so this slide is I want I want to highlight something here
see if I can figure out how to do it because this is important I want to did oh it did show up perfect data driven Solutions that's really important so the solutions that we come up are they're data driven we don't think these Solutions are going to
work we have data that shows that these Solutions are going to work so kind of my catchphrase that I've come up with over the past couple of days is data driven decisions lead to effective Solutions right so you use good data to drive your decision your Solutions are
going to work okay so that was that's just a brief kind of what is a storm water master plan what is a storm water model and um now I think I'm going to get to the part of the presentation while we're all here for right this is you know this is where we have the the Pyro popup and you know this is what we're all here to
talk about right now and as you asked I'm going to I'm going to go through each I'm going to go through each project it's going to be fairly briefly at a at a fairly high level because these are the thing about these projects we're going to talk about these are these projects are not designed they're not on the ground yet so we're still
sitting at about 10,000 fet in the air with a lot of these projects so we're still kind of looking at a zoomed out picture and then once we take these project to design that's we get on the ground we do physical surveys we know exact pipe sizes we have a lot more real information so we have a lot and and we
have a lot better information but I'm going to give you a real kind of a kind of like I said about a 10,000 foot view of these projects and I'm happy to answer questions on any of them can I just stop you one second as much as this is for us it's for everyone in the crowd
do you all need a little break before we get into this because this is what we're here for thank you just wanted to make sure sensitive to you I'm good to go it's yours I try and and I just want to reiterate the fact that what the mayor and the manager
both said that in in the coming months even though I'm we're going to talk about these briefly we're going to we're going to be able to get into a lot more detail with those individual meetings because we'll have a lot more time to to talk individual projects individual streets so the first one and and try not to get caught up in the names you know
we're Engineers we're not we're not project namers so we just named and what we thought makes the most sense right so the first one we're calling our our sugar Forest drainage improvements um so this is a it's really a multiphase project and for phase one of the project as we indicated phase one of the
projects we've you guys have already approved the design contract and we are going to be starting uh survey and and and kickoff meetings here in the next week or two so this project is starting right now for design and we estimate our our our design and permitting time frame to be around a little over a year about
14 months we're going to try to Fast Track these as much as we can but some things we don't have control over estimate our construction time to be about 18 months and we and we see in this project for both phases we see a lot of a lot of potential benefit we're talking about
400 homes potentially helping with this project both phases okay so what does this project look like so I'll just real quick I'm going to zoom in on this just so that we can kind of see so there's some colors on here you'll see the Light blues and the dark Blues
the Light blues are areas that flooded in before the Improvement dark Blues are area that the model shows was the Improvement so again these are very conservative estimates and we don't have finished floor elevations for all the
residents so just because a house is shaded in light blue doesn't mean that house floods so the model is not that sensitive to the finished floor elevations the model is only as sensitive as the data we put into it and we just put in ground liar data so the ground around a resident May flood so I
don't want people to think just because there's a light blue shade around where their house is that means they're still going to flood because that's not necessarily the case and then I'll I'm going to go to the next slide because it's a little bit easier to see because there's not all the all the stuff on it so while you're
doing that real quick so so in in this map you you we have inputed the Topography of all of the land yes so so we were able to get the the lar data and and we use that lar data as our as our as our topographic part so the there is
Topo in the model that's correct nice thank it's not survey toppo but it the lar data is actually incredibly accurate that they you know they've developed this this technology it's it's not it's not radar anymore they're using light to to determine the Topo and it's actually pretty accurate nice okay can I ask a
quick question of course jino um so on the first page it talks about number of homes helped number of properties helped is 400 right but then um on the slide it says buildings removed from flood plane 183 can you just touch on why those numbers are different and because
obviously 400 homes means 400 homes stand a benefit in some way shape or form but can you explain what when it says 183 removed from the FL actually that's a phase one number and the the overall is the 400 so we're looking at this as a phase project potentially a two-phase
project so the the phase one project is so the the city about a year and a half ago purchased the 2 and a half acre piece of property at the corner of meline Avenue in Pepper Hill uh with the thoughts of we're going to put in a storm water Pond to help the the storm
water in that area so as we're running through our model simulations that's the first simulation we ran is just a pond it didn't work just that pond did not solve the flooding in that area I don't think that was a big surprise to us but the model proved to us that that didn't
work so we're not going to just dig a pond just to dig a pond we want to make again we want to make sure that these Solutions are effective well I I will just tell you from from a non-engineers perspective I did think it would be significant of help you know I mean you think when you take a piece of property
that big and you're saying okay we're going to acquire this property we're going to create this really large retention Pond I was thinking when we approved the purchase of that property that this will be significant help right and and the modeling shows it will help but you got
to have more to it so the benefit of the modeling already has paid dividends there because that project concept has already changed so that we can move that forward and and as you're talking about these projects are all of these modeled to how many inches in 24 hours are we so so we're modeling these two are I hate
to use this term the 100-year storm event okay which is the which is the basically the 11 in of rain over the 24-hour period so it's a standard what we call a standard design storm that that is a that is the standard for which modern storm water systems are designed to okay so we're designing to the
existing standard um we're not designing to a hurricane Ian or hurricane Milton um that's not saying that these projects won't help during those events sure but it's not realistic to to to model to those to design to those type of events okay all right good so
again we we we we have that piece of property we're still going to put a pond there we're still going to dig that same Pond we're talking about but what we're also going to do is we're going to put a storm water pumping station there at that pond and then we're going to pump that water all the way East to the
Halifax River so that's about roughly 8,000 ft we're going to pump that water and that's a closed system so that Force man that we're not the the route of that Force man is not going to have any effect of anybody along the Route I know that might be a concern well you're pumping at East you're going to flood me
to the east no the the point of that Force man is a close system so you don't allow any water correct it's not a ditch it's not a gravity system it's a pump system so that that's basically the project you dig the pond you construct the pump station and you and you take
your Force main 8,000 ft so the the second phase of that project is we own a we own a we own a the city has a pond at the end of um Sugar Grove Court it's an existing Pond there's a culdesac there um second phase is going to be to put a
pump station at that pond and and then take that and and tie that Force main into the Force main that we've already constructed you know the the cost breakdowns for Phase One versus phase two I know we got a total but so we're we're estimating phase two to be between
$8 and $10 million okay what's the estimate for one then yeah Phase One 8 to 10 same oh okay and and and again these are these are not construction cost estimates these are kind of order we call them order of magnitude estimates so we're we
don't have any any design so we don't know the exact size of the pumps we don't know the exact size of the force Mains we don't know the exact size of the wet Wells and all that comes into play when when you're when you're cosing these things out and and also we don't it's the Force main is going to kind of Be The X Factor in this one the water
that the the pipe that we're pumping through if we can get if the force main gets to a certain size a certain diameter we're going to have to open cut and trench the whole way which is going to cost a lot more money then you have to go restore all the roadway if we get it down to a size that we can
directional drill which is trenchless then you can start having some significant cost savings so but we're not quite there yet we're going to be there in a couple of months though because we're going to start designing and these these people over here are going to they're going to they're going to help us determine that so but we're going to we're going to put in a force main that's appropriately sized to
handle the flow that we needed to um we just don't know exactly what that size is yet so that's going to be that's kind of one of the X factors or one of the the unknowns in this project one of the things in we get into when you were talking about what we were designing it to uh so the west side of town when we were showing the 1990 post all the stuff
out there so everything in water's edge and and Wood Haven and all that area on the west side was built to that 11 Ines of rain in both storms we had very minimal flooding out there uh the the issue is they're built with a ton of ponds and so one of the exercises we did
was we took Water's Edge and picked up Water's Edge with all of its ponds and dropped it over this part of the city just to estimate if this area was built with the same retention system that was built in water's edge what would it look like and over 400 homes would be in a
pond so the idea of digging holes in the ground in ponds was not going to work because you're were not going to remove 400 homes so that's where you see the pump solution come in is right now all that water gravity's to the West into the Nova Canal when Nova is full of
water it doesn't have anywhere to go so it just backs up in these lowline areas and floods them so what they were doing here is flipping it around not relying on gravity using a pump forcing it the other way and then you can use less holding area to get rid of the water
because you're pushing it out instead of trying to hold it so instead of trying to retain 11 Ines of rain in a bunch of holes in the ground you're trying to get it out into the river that can handle it all and push it out into the ocean through pont's Inlet so that exercise was really important because once we dropped Water's Edge over it and saw
that impact you you can't go back and retrofit the old parts of town with that amount of ponds without we we you just simply couldn't wipe that many homes out so with the solutions as you'll see are tend to be uh pump driven because of that because of the large amount of land
it takes to retrofit if you're going to try to do it through a bunch of ponds that's that's an excellent point and and especially just to kind of go on what the manager said is if you're going to develop so developing today a typical developer depending on groundwater conditions you're going to have to
dedicate anywhere between 25 to 30% of your land for storm water management so I think that's when you equate to take 25 to 30% of this area turn into ponds that's when you start getting into you know the four to 500 homes so that's kind of the that that was one of the the
the the challenges that we had to overcome is we did not we did not have a bunch of vacant land in this part of town to develop a bunch of ponds and I think the the point the mayor made earlier that while that area is designed to 11 in of rain we had 15 in in one storm and 20 plus and the other and
there were minimal homes that got water in them now streets flooded you know the neighborhoods we got some of you guys that live out in that area there was water close to your houses but it was it kept it out of the houses which was the top priority is to make sure the water will receed out of your street but you
don't want it inside your home and so that's the system designed for that has worked reasonably well in those two very strong storms I want to touch on that real quick with you you know so so this particular area in this project
currently has no real outfall to the river now that that that's actually an excellent point and I'm glad you brought that up so so this area is kind of a there's kind of a a little Basin divide where where part of this area naturally wants to drain West into the Nova canal
and then part of this area actually does does drain to the east through a series of ditches and actually flows through uh an area that we're going to talk about a little bit kind of flows through the pona area so one of the one of the things that we didn't take account for we didn't take credit for is by by
taking this water and capturing it pumping it we're not sending that water Downstream right so we're we're only accounting for the benefit to this area we didn't account for any Downstream of benefits because we're not sending all that water we're going to pump we're not sitting Downstream okay that was going to lead me in my question on on this
particular project and and this Project's got 8,000 ft of pipe and it's going to the river yes we are going to force this water from from spring fors or whatever it is to all the way to the river are we able to to capture any of the waters that goes down Charles Street
or is that not something you can you can do with a force system right you can only pump into a force main so as soon as you open that system up there's going to be pressure on that pipe right so if there's if it's as soon as you open up you you lose the pressure and it's going to flow out okay but like you just said
at the same time though now that we're not pushing gravity water towards Charles Street it should relieve that area as well correct and and we did not account for those benefits so those that's why every everything we did was Ultra conservative we did not want to oversell any of these projects so we we
didn't take into account any kind of Downstream or any kind of outside the Basin effects and we are going to see some of that okay and I think does the model show that at all when you like I know you're not accounting it it's really difficult um when you start trying to do because the the some of
these simulations can take a day to run I mean these are these are really really really complex and a lot of calculations so if you start trying you you could end up crashing your system if you try to if you try to do too much with the model got it but but those of us that have
been on the ground in these areas during some of these events I think one of the things at least I feel like I've seen that I'm very confident of is that the the area doesn't have a lot of retention because of the design from many many decades ago but when that Nova Canal
starts to overflow you're done it just continues to flow East and so you can't help but think that this type of a project mitigates a lot of stuff outside of this scope of the area because you go you
we've seen it we we just know that the water is just going to continue to flow all the way down Charles you know through sugar Forest down you know to the railroad track underneath the railroad tracks and out to Riverwalk Park is where it eventually ends up right now just for for a point of clarification because I know I'm hoping
some folks are going to uh take the opportunity to email Senator Wright and representative chase traymont the the name of this project is different it is different and I and that's why I kind of mentioned that and I apologize for it and and that's okay so I just want to make sure folks
understand so this particular project that we're talking about tonight the sugar Forest drainage area just geographically speaking a lot of people know where sugar Forest is this is not just for just sugar Force only but in Tallahassee this project for Appropriations we've got it titled I think as uh
meline and Pepper Hill meline and Pepper Hill because that's where the pr property was purchased that will be the center point of the project so if you are writing if you could take note of that that we're asking them to support the mateline and Pepper Hill project just so we're not having any confusion there go ahead J what else you got on
that one so so that's all on that project and I'll move on to the next if there's no other questions so hold on Juno certainly real quickly on that so I know you guys are saying that uh building the ponds and things of that nature it doesn't solve the picture of
what was showed and I get that but you're still going to utilize the pond for the project that's correct so that that's what we're pumping from so you have to have you have to feed that pump and that pond is going to feed that pump okay not to be the guy on the standing
post jumping off here my question to you is is you're going to need the pond no matter what we're within how many more months before hurricane season isn't anything better than nothing that's that's an excellent point
just asking the question because we're going to appropriate the money to this project to go they're going to need the pond no matter what and it's a little bit more complex than just a pond you have to get the water to the pond so we have to do some collection system improvements in the surrounding area to
to pipe to the pond so just digging the pond isn't going to give you it's it's almost next to no benefit cuz you still to get the water from the the outreaches of that area into the pond and that's and that's much bigger because then you're you're you're putting in drain pipes in roads and things like that so oh it's an excellent question though and
and funding wise correct me if I'm wrong but once we spend that money they're not going to reimburse us on it versus getting the grant so it's allows our dollars to go further if it's not providing an immediate benefit then it allows our taxpayer dollars to go further to get more matching funds when
we hopefully get the grants from the state hopefully is there any money available for from selling the dirt of that pond um potentially um that and that's something whenever we bid the project out we we we'll bid that out as a is a
is a if we keep the dirt you'll charge us this much if you give us the you know so we'll kind of we'll have them price it both ways if they get to keep the dirt it'll cost less to dig the pond whereas if we take the dirt it'll cost us a little bit more good dirt's like gold right now it it is absolutely the
the other element that I think is important for all of us to make sure you keep in mind is that on all of these projects part of this painful process that we have to go through is we could all agree in this room tonight to go out there and do X Y and Z if we had all the
money right now we can't do it you still got to go through the permitting process and there are a lot of other agencies way above us that got to review these projects and sign off on them and ensure that these projects are executed without impacting negative other areas South Daytona other areas of the Port Orange
Community things like that so that process unfortunately is does take time this will require uh permitting through St John's River Water Management District and the Army Corp Engineers yeah as the two biggest permitting yep anything else on this particular
project go ahead okay so next uh we're going to uh talk about Sleepy Hollow drainage improvements project um this one again we're estimating you know in in the in the year year and a half time frame to design and permit about a year and a half to construct we're looking at
at uh the the 90 homes estimated and this is again a conservative estimate for 90 homes and then then you see the cost there so for a point of reference I'll zoom in
again on this one so I wish you could see the so so uh if you kind of if you can kind of follow the laser pointer I know it's kind of zoomed out so that's Jackson Avenue right there dun lton kind of in this top corner here and you have Nova Road that comes through here and
then this is Sleepy Hollow right here and then this is our our Public's Plaza right here that's where I grew up right there so for this project we're we're going to do some when we say when I say gravity system improvements that's putting pipe in the ground that's putting pipe in the ground and the idea
of putting the pipe in the ground is to route that water somewhere so we're gonna we're going to do some gravity Sy looking at doing gravity systems along Jackson Street and then down the down the west side of Sleepy Hollow which would be the east side of the The public's Plaza and then depending on
whether we can get easements or not we may continue down that east side or west side of Sleepy Hollow or we may bring that those gravity system improvements out on the Nova Road and then we're also going to put some gravity system improvements within Sleepy Hollow to try to capture that water and bring it to our
palms So currently sleepy has a has a small kind of linear Pond directly south of development zoom in on that at all just on the other side of that I kind of am zoomed in as much as it'll let me really and I do apologize these These are these are modeling level Maps so
they're not really construction ready so you do kind of have a zoomed out view um so there's a there's the there's the Sleepy Hollow Pond and then directly on the other side of that pond there's an fdot Pond that the city actually owns that pond and that pond takes the drain from Nova
Road North NOA North Nova Road up to Dun Avenue so this project is going to take those ponds and combine them into one pond so we're going to have one larger Pond we'll get a little bit of additional volume because you got about a 20 foot wide BM so you take all that dirt out of there you get a little bit more volume in your pond and then once again we're going to construct a storm
water pumping station kind of on the Southeast Corner uh around the miles Drive area and and once again we're going to take and we're going to pump if you follow that purple line this is our this is where we're initially looking at pumping water too the city owns a small parcel of land down there we're going to pump this water somewhere east of the
railroad tracks into Rose Bay we haven't completely identified where our outfall for this project is going to be but it's going to be east of the railroad tracks into Rose Bay would that that would also be enclosed pumping yes yes so every every time I'm talking about a storm water
pumping station that's with a force Main and we call that a closed system so that that pipe is closed off until it until it discharges to its ultimate outfall and that'd be one way at its outfall one way at its outfall right and again this one we have we we
we it's it's 90 homes but that's if you look at the if you can kind of look at the the dark blue with the exception of the roads most of Sleepy Hollow we're not flooding homes we're doing again what you call Nuance flooding or roadway flooding we can
accept that absolutely and these and this is at the at the peak of the flood were there any opport I'm sorry are you keep going that's the project okay in in that particular area were there any other opportunities
identified where we could hold more water even if it's temporary I know there's a really large retention area there to the south of the of the project area but any other areas that that could be expanded or didn't something happen
there with those two Pawns another one Pond and then that's actually going to be helpful we think or so so prior to Hurricane Milton we were trying to um pre-stage the the pond in Sleepy Hollow because the these two systems believe it or not and it I'm might have to zoom out
to get the pointer back on it but the the Sleepy Hollow system discharges actually from this little Pond down here it goes north and then discharges through a ditch system out to Nova out to the what's it the Hal Canal but the Nova
canal and then the dot system actually has a gravity outfall down Nova road so they're two separate outfalls so what we were doing prior to Milton as we were pumping that Sleepy Hollow Pond to try to get as much volume storage volume available for that pond prior to the
storm what happened is is we we we pumped that pond really really good we pumped the Sleepy Hollow pond so low that we had such a high difference so the water level in in the do Pond is here the water level in the and the sleepy Hollow Pon is here and then we had a burm failure so the Water started
slowly migrating through that BM and eventually a term we like to use is water always wins and and that water ate through that burm and so now the the two ponds are in essence one pond so we're just going to for this project we're just going to finish that process and
this and this one will require a d a DOT cooperation and approval for us to do this project so then no other opportunities in that area for any any additional r that so so we did we did look at there there is some vacant land that we looked at um but because it's of low-lying
nature we didn't get a lot of storage out of that land okay so currently C Hollow drained to the Nova Canal which is already we as we know the problem correct and and that's part of the issue is is again in low tides or when the Canal's down the
system works really well oh yeah but when that when it's when it's burn when it's up at its banks it's really really high it's you know we kind of use it as you you know you got a busy Interstate you got a busy interstate and you're trying to get on the on-ramp and there just no way to get on you got to wait for a break in traffic and the for the
breaking traffic is for the canal to go down before that water can get out of there it's an excellent plan that was that project if if you guys have any more questions I I'll go on to the next one read I no it's um you know that area pretty well I I do happen
to know this area extremely well considering I live there and flooded twice so um but no I I think it's a great approach I I wish there was um like Scott said more options as far as storage goes um cuz it is the NOA Canal
ultimately that kind of does Sleepy Hollow in because there's just nowhere for that neighborhood's water to escape and so you know it it'd be like me taking this Gatorade and trying to pour it into this already full bottle of water there's just it's going to go everywhere and that's what's happened to
us there um I think a a big thing like we've already talked about you know especially something behind Publix that that whole ditch has always been problematic I think you've known that from the two years you've been here it just it ends up a lot of trash gets down in there
from that complex I mean we've whole dumpsters couches I mean literally I cannot begin to tell you uh how much debris ends up in there and of course that ends up in the pipes and everything else they staff's done a great job of cleaning it prior to the big storms it
just it's you know on any given day you can walk out there and even still right now there's a huge portion of the roadway that has collapsed into this um you know Canal that's back there so the whole thing is just um it's got to be
improved you know and we know that and I think this is the right step you you bring up an excellent point in in the The public's Plaza and by no means am I am I throwing them under the bus or anything but this that that develop that that that where that Plaza is was one of the first big box developments in the in
the city again pre 1990 so if you notice something that's missing from that Plaza stor water ponds there's not a single one not a single storm water Pond for that whole Plaza and all of that water discharges to that small ditch behind Sleepy Hollow I'm just going to ask the question because I've I know I've asked it I think I've asked it to you I know
I've spoken about it with Wayne would it be something for the city to try to approach them about purchasing a portion of the parking lot or something to build retention or would it not be worth it anyway would it just be um
financially um cost prohibitive because they they their whole parking lot flooded extremely correct because they have nowhere to store their water either and I don't know that they have a lot of available parking in in that in that lot with all the with all the the infield that they've done along Nova Road there
that I think they're pretty much at their at their parking limit gotcha okay and the the design of the the neighborhood as you know the original designer there were no retention areas to that all the reten like if you Google Earth this you do see a few Retention
Ponds in the outlier area those were all built later the one major area was done as part of the the dun Lon and Nova expansion to go to multiple Lanes by by this do and if you actually notice if you're looking at the Sleepy Hollow box on the left half of this and you notice
there's another neighborhood that's in behind that um that's where Miles Drive come in they have retention and you know while they did have I believe one or two homes flood in there it was not like sley Hollow CU they have a place for their water just to go but that's the difference in a neighborhood that was
built in the 70s and 80s and one that was built in the early 2000s or late 90s they they have a modern storm water system in that neighborhood and it functioned very well did um through through the storms that's a that neighborhood was developed after 1990
correct those houses were built a lot later um I I noticed that there's I've always drive by these Lots they've been for sale since I think I've been in real estate for 30 years it's the one across from uh Oak Place warehouse Park in near
our um storm our water uh treatment plant it's um just north of Acorn Lane it's a big piece of property and then there's also behind the wind Dixie there's a big piece of property on Spruce Creek these are all west of Spruce Creek Road but on Spruce Creek
Road right would they not serve as a storage Holdings for like I mean I just so some some of that property is is fairly expensive and with with really low groundwater again I'll I'll take you back to the you know if you if you if
you only get a foot of storage in a two acre pond that's that's two acre feet of storage and that's that's really not not enough to to make a significant difference for the amount of money you would pay for that for that piece of property I think we looked at the one behind the wind Dixie it's there's a lot of wetland on it and it's it's not in
the area that the the Sleepy Hollow water flows so we we did consider that it just it isn't where you where the water would go and and I think we might not because it was hard to see on the picture but that the pump down there basically was you said you combine the
two ponds you get the extra capacity and then you force that water east across the railroad tracks across where Rose Bay or where where you go into Rose Bay from Nova canal and go around the all of that so you're you're you're instead of this long path where it comes south of
the neighborhood over to the east up to the top through a smaller canal and then has to sit and try to fight its way into the canal coming down you're going to pull it south and shove it all the way East and push it out on the other side of the train tracks that seems to be I'm
not the P the civil engineer here so I get to generalize stuff but getting it out is seems to be the answer as you start looking at it just trying to trying to hold it in holes in the ground it it seems to be a really losing battle where if you can put it in the right spot and shoot it to the right spot you
get it out of that area and it's not sitting there in people's houses you're just pulling it and pushing it out of the way so I I I was impressed when I saw that that wasn't I wasn't expecting there to be such a black and white solution here that could really make a difference and I think 90 homes that's
that's really positive for that area so is that is if with that pump being in place let's say three years out would that be a way to pump down that Lake before the you know it's coming it's there in Fort Meers will we be able to start pumping so you have to be really careful pre-staging
ponds because if you if you pull a pond below the natural groundwater elevation you start pulling groundwater into that pond and when the groundwater comes in you bring in a little bit of soil with it and you can eventually have slope failure so you have to be really really careful pre-staging ponds below existing
groundwater elevations because you can you can you can compromise the stability of the slopes it's been a common theme that people start telling me I don't understand why you don't pump down that pond and pump down that pond and so we were pumping down the Sleepy Hollow Pond and we were pumping that thing I mean we
had that we had the beach showing right it was almost empty and then exactly what we were afraid of happening happened was the it it it destabilized the slope and then the slope failed yeah you it's you can you can over pump well
first of all there's only a handful of ponds out of the 500 in the city or whatever that could be mechanically pumped down but the ones that can if you pump them too low you can create a bigger problem and so and when you pump them a lot of times you know because we'll get phone calls where people are like well you know the storm is five
days out why aren't you pumping it down if you pump it down too soon it fills back up and so it's all about moving water and try to create you got to have somewhere to pump it too number one but it's all about creative capacity forcing it down the river like we're going to do when it fills up so question for you on the modeling and maybe this is something
for kimley horn to answer but I'm just curious it's expensive project $17 million right so thinking of other options is it possible to take a neighborhood like that like FEMA let's say FEMA in the state reenacted past
programs where there was a lot of dollars to go in and purchase homes and properties that wanted to sell them and and acquire those properties for creation of retention is there a way to model an area draw a box around this
area and say okay if if if that were to happen how many many homes or how much property would need to be acquired is that possible to model that and I get what the city manager was talking about you still got to pump it somewhere at some point but can that be modeled to
see if that could be helpful at all or not helpful at all so so yes that can be done they'll model anything we asked them to model um will it be effective or not it's really hard hard to say we would probably have well we would start off is and go okay we're going to have to take 30% of that property and make it
a pond because that's kind of the go-to number with the CU we have really really high groundwater in this area so again you're not going to get a ton of storage out of that pond so we would have to take 30% of that and it and it needs to be contiguous you can't do you know hodgepodge small little you know quarter acre ponds you need to do you know you
know big contiguous pond so we could certainly could certainly to have the infrastructure that gets all the water into the correct just just in general when we were looking at the some of the animation it was like 35 or 40 like basically every house in the northwest corner of that subdivision would have to come out in order to save
the rest of them in the subdivision that's again generalizing it I don't have to worry about my You' have to acquire 50 homes to benefit another 100 that's correct okay well if I could piggy back on what Wayne was saying a second ago about this this Force main I think most people had similar
issues that I noticed when it came to the flooding and the animation that Kim leorn did was awesome for showing this is that it it was fine and the system was fine till it wasn't when it went away it seemed like somebody just pulled the drain plug so what excites me the most about the Force main not only on
this project but in the Pro first project we talked about is if you could just able to keep that water flowing even as rainfall is coming down it seems to be there is a there is capacity already there it's just you need water movement not capacity at least that's
what it felt like in the two times that I was flooded is it seemed like we were fine and you know it was in the road that was okay and then it went from being you know an inch or two in the road to a foot to next thing you know it's a foot of water in everyone's home and it and it seemed like it came in and
went out just as fast and so you know it seems like to me these Force Mains the water movement cuz no amount of homes or land we're going to purchase is going to be equivalent to the capacity of the Halifax River in Rose Bay right you know
so um but no I'm very excited about both of the first two here projects so Juno on on this note and and something that just turn my light on was is dun loton Square so we talk houses houses houses
but in reality you got dun loton square with how many thousands of square feet of black top that dumps into a ditch it's at Sleepy Hollow that's just on the correct it's just on the west side of Sleepy Hollow and then goes on that whole Plaza dumped to that
that's correct everything goes to the back of that store and into that ditch and that's something I never really calculate because you're you're talking about houses and I just know as an example CB Hollow has the worst soil there ever was because I remember when they built it I we were playing in the muck be careful bought a big portion of
that there's zero there's zero permability in that and you know I'm just sitting here think about all the things that calculate into this and and and CB Hollow is at a disadvantage already has no ponds and it's got terrible soil and it has no pitch but now we're throwing dunon square into
that so when we model when we model this this repair or whatever I think we need to include what all is going into that ditch and what all is going into the surrounding area of C Hollow have we done that yes that's included and and if you'll notice I'll kind of zoom in on
the on the dun Lon square if you'll notice a lot of their parking lot turns dark blue and dark blue in these pictures is good so a lot of that parking lot that was flooded initially turns dark blue so we're we're we're taking a lot of that water from that from that Plaza and and we're putting into our system and we're pumping that
out andr currently we're pumping it into the NOA Canal which is already dead we're it's trying to gravity into NOA Canal so we've got a so bypassing that Nova Canal is with this much water is a big deal and there was there was so much water in Milton that dun lot and square
there are some of the tenants flooded like the the parking lot was that high and and the water was that bad in the back of the canal that some of those tents FL which is why I brought up the conversation is you know whether or not they would be interested in storage themselves and it become something where
we maybe partner with them but I don't want to go I know it's a very slippery slope to go down so that's a conversation that that people at your level might have to have yeah and and I'd be willing to do it if we sat down you and I first and talked about to make sure it was feasible absolutely yeah so
maybe maybe you and I will do that sometime good thank going to go to the next one course yes carry on okay so this next one we call our pona area um so for those of that aren't familiar with pona that's our you know our second through kind of Sixth Street Sugar Mill
Elementary is in the area um that our new mine Commons development is kind of adjacent to the pona area um so at at taking a look at this project again you know we have our our design permitting land acquisition our construction time
frame approximately 25 homes were helping here um you'll see this is a much smaller number cuz this is one of those ones where because of the the land we had available to us we are able to make a gravity
solution work in this area so the idea behind this project is you can see the areas uh that are hatched in yellow we've identified those as potential storm water Pond areas so the idea would be to collect this to collect the storm water route it to those ponds
let those ponds hold the water and then slowly discharge that water East one of the things of note on this one is once we get to the railroad tracks we're going to discharge that because that's where it currently goes that water currently discharges underneath the railroad tracks uh goes east into it's called the dhy canal the
historic dhy Canal which goes under US1 eventually outfalls at Riverwalk Park near the chamber building where we have our where our water goats at that's where all this discharge is so with this one what we'll do is on the on the east side of railroad tracks we're going to put a backflow prevention device so we're going to prevent CU cuz that that
whole system is tily affected so we will prevent the tide from coming back in here but it's not forced no this is this is this is one of our gravity Solutions we're really proud of this one because we got a gravity solution to work we try we tried gravity in all of them first um and this was one of the ones we were we
did not we do not have to pump this water but regardless of the title because we're holding that tide back and we're we have we we we have enough storage available to hold the water that that that is going to be generated the runoff that's going to be generated from the area we have enough if if we're able
to put storm water ponds in all these hatched areas there's enough volume there to hold the water do we own this land now we do not we do not own any of this land currently okay so again so we have storage ponds it's going to gravity feed to the river it's got a back flow
so the pressure of the water in the pond is going to exceed the pressure of the tide which it's going to let it's going to let it go out but not come back in so you you hold you hold your water through the storm and you hold your water through the Surge and once the Surge and the storm is gone and and the tidal
conditions are back to normal then you have a what we call it a drainage control or discharge control device that will slowly let that water drain out of the pon so it's not something that's active during the storm itself then correct is it correct is this also like it's a smaller area and a smaller
magnitude of like you you wouldn't necessarily even with this amount of land be able to make Solutions work in some of the other areas because you're dealing with much higher amounts of water and in larger areas so it it's also because it's not the same scale or so it's just like a Sleepy Hollow problem excellent point there's a much
smaller contributing Basin to to this area that we're having to that we're having to account for okay right and and this one we're not getting we're not getting Nova Canal spill over in this one or anything like that so this is just really kind of localized um with this area and this is these houses were
developed a lot longer ago 1950s this is this is one of the oldest oldest areas flat I mean just no elevation on the home now with uh the new subdivision that's been developed there I noticed I drove through there there's over 30 man
there's over over 30 inlets in that neighborhood and that's going into their retention that they developed and then where so that that that development has actually three places that It ultimately discharges water so they they hold all
of their water they hold their 11 Ines in their ponds and then they have actually three outfalls so part of the outfall Goes West to Sals Avenue cuz so when you're developing a piece of property you have to do a you have to do a storm water model it's a much smaller scale than what what what kimley horn
did but you have to do a pre what they call an existing condition storm water model so you have to show before you develop that piece of property where does the water go so what we what what the engineer who designed this showed was in the pre in the predevelopment F or stage that it went to three different
location so some of it goes to sols some of it actually discharges North up into a ditch system that goes up into South Daytona and then part of it goes east into the into this this ditch part of it goes east into the ditch system that's or the the
the drainage system that's currently in the pona area so it's three different areas where discharges and another thing whenever you're whenever you're developing land in a in a subdivision like this you have to model what your predevelopment discharge rate was so how many gallons per minute do you does your
land discharge before you develop it you're not allowed to discharge one single drop more of water in post-development than you are in pre-development so you're holding all of that water and you're only releasing and post-development what was released in pre-development and before it would just hit that vacant lot and run wherever the
heck gravity took it right right it went three different locations when it hit the vacant lock that's correct yeah there was no there's no there no control of it had no retention it could have flowed into the neighborhoods it could have wherever it had the least uh the path of least resistance correct but you also
have the capability of percolation yeah but not 20 Ines of rain at true now these we don't we don't currently possess these properties though that's correct but they are for sale or we've identified them as as potential ponds we haven't we haven't gone any farther with
it than that anything else on this project just just a general comment on this particular project area I think it's important for us to keep in mind that this is one of those areas where there are other projects outside of our
jurisdictional boundaries that I believe would tremendously help this I mean if the Army Corps of Engineers and do can improve the Nova Canal system and the outfall project or or the outfalls of all of that because that's where a lot of this water comes from in this
particular particular area yeah and then on top of that this other this mateline Pepper Hill project I mean I I think like you like Jun know and I get it why we want to be conservative but when you put it all together it all makes sense that when you start connecting some of these opportunities even though not all
of them with hard control that I think we can I think the the the impacts could be even much significantly greater than we could anticipate but it's good to look at things conservative so and that that's that's an excellent point because one of the things with if you go back to the mine Pepper Hill or sugar Forest
project a lot of that water currently flows through this area to outfall we're going to intercept that water and pump it so it doesn't have to get through here anymore so that's even less water that we're going to have to deal with so that gives us even more confidence in that this Project's going to work and and and lastly on the on the on the properties that we're talking about
there just just keep in mind when municipal government is always trying to acquire real estate there has to be a strategy and we got to give our staff time to put us in the best position for that and I know that they are working on that um and that'll be enough set on that for
right now yes thank you on the next one yes sir go right ahead okay so the next one we call our Virginia Avenue drainage improvements this project is located um so geographically I'll switch to just go
through the numbers real quick again uh pering time frames construction time frames uh estimated properties helped and estimated construction cost so geographically uh let put my pointer so pointer so this is dun L Avenue right
here going to the dun bridge this is Ridgewood Avenue right here and then you have your railroad tracks right here and Virginia Avenue runs parallel to the railroad tracks and just to the east so this this project is kind of a kind of a tag on to a project that we
constructed in uh 2019 2020 uh we put a couple of storm water pump stations in small storm water pump stations um and some ponds up closer to to Ridgewood um the the one shortfall of the of this project was the the gravity system the
collection system the pipes to get it to the pond they're not big enough so we're so that so when a when the gravity system when a gravity pipe becomes overc capacity then you that's when you have the standing water and that water's flown to that pipe it's over capacity so this project really is about getting
more water to those ponds faster and and then since we're sending more water to those ponds we have to make sure that the existing pumps can handle handle that additional flow so it may involve some upsizing of some pumps and potentially looking at maybe an additional Force man or something like that but once we get into the to the
farther into design is when we can get into all that but right it it's basically getting more water to our existing ponds and making sure our pumps can handle that additional water for the project if I remember right Juno we we talked about this this is just nor north
of epiphanes Catholic church and you got white U white Place Park yep and that was part of our Parks and Recreation Bond was to redo that Park and the possibility of making a storage site
there too right so that's that's outside of what is actually being shown here this is part of it's separately that can Aid to this project and also if you look at the map you see the the purple dots kind of along the east side of Ridgewood those are all backflow prevention devices kind
of what I was talking about before you try to prevent that water from going west of US1 our natural kind of our Natural Dam running North South City can I ask why these Maps don't have the light blue and the dark blue that's we've seen on some of the other Maps I I I had one for this but it was just
because of the the scale of the drawing was really hard to see okay thank you it was just a visual thing yep J the in the in the 2019 project that was executed here that was two additional retention pwns right one off of fox place and it
it was actually three ponds three right was three additional ponds and two pump stations yeah just looking at this on Google Earth and trying to do some rough calculations it looked like we added a little over 40,000 square feet of retention spawn space sound about right that's pretty reasonable pretty close to
that so so just under an acre because an acre is 43,560 per Fe one of those numbers as an engineer you have to memorize did I get it right right guys even planners know that tricky tricky thing in this
area it seems is that Ridgewood hurts us because that acts as a natural burm to keep water from flowing into the river so so it hurts us it hurts us and helps us in a way so it kind of does act as that natural so it doesn't allow that water to completely inundate on the west
side and which is why we put those back flow devices there a lot of what we've been talking about is rainfall we're haven't been talking about storm surge right so you know we can get storm surge without rainfall and and unfortunately those properties East of
US1 and south of dun Lon there's not a lot we can do for those because because the river's right there yeah absent building big flood walls and things like that you know billion dollar projects there's not a lot we can do in that part of
town so this is really retention this this project is is really a collection system to get more water to the ponds and then pumping that water to the river okay similar to what the it's basically just making that existing
project a little bit better okay okay questions on this one get on that one yeah all right we're getting there so this is another one that the name is long and wordy but we're calling it Spruce Creek Woods Drive and Sweet
Water Hills drainage improvements um for for for point of reference you get to the map here million oops I sorry about that yep I went think that sorry about that so this is uh this is tumblebrook drive
here this is Hensel Road here this is what we call Kings Landing the new development there so this is just to the to the west of there so this is part of the city that's actually not in a low-lying area it's got some interesting topography in the
area this is the area where we have some of our higher elevations and and what we found when we were modeling this and and what we found when we talked to some of the residents over there is is the area to to the north along Spruce Creek Woods Drive is is is higher to the point where
the water actually flows down to tumblebrook drive and kind of exacerbates the issue down there makes a little bit worse that area shaped like a bowl yeah it's it's an absolutely a bowl down there so the idea behind this project is to intercept that water with collection system before it has a chance to flow down to TumbleBook drive and
through pipes through then this is this is gravity this part so through pipes and then it's not shown on here but here I'm going to turn my pointer back on real quick so you guys can see so this right here if you can see where the laser pointer is that's the southern end of the b19 canal right before it goes
into Spruce Creek so this pro project again is is collection system on Spruce Creek Woods drrive route that water West into the b19 and down in the in the Sweetwater Hills we have an existing a small exist
small pond at the at at the bowl and we have a uh a diesel power or a Thompson pump there that we've used for a long time to to try to keep that area dry and it it works fairly well um it has definitely has some limitations the force man is slightly undersides it's
only a 6in force man so we can't push as much water as we need to and then because it's a it's a diesel power pump and it's got um some rudimentary floats on it it's got some inherent issues mechanical issues like for Hurricane Milton we actually had that pump fail
because there was water got into the into the fuel system and caused the engine to stop running so this project we're going to we're going to take that existing diesel pump station construct a an a pump station with electric pumps like we we're
looking at all and then we'll back this up with generator so we're going to basically improve The Pump Station slightly oversize that Force man make that probably a 10 or 12 in force man so we can move as much much water as we need and then we have we own an existing pond on the West Side kind of
near where the the the yellow area is and we've identified that area is is potential additional Pond to hold some water prior to discharging to b19 because one of the unique things about this project is it does discharge directly to Spruce Creek and Spruce
Creek is an impaired water so we have to to do some water quality component to this project which means we have to try to clean that water before we discharge so the caveat to that being when we're in a flooding condition you bypass your
water quality but the other 99% of the time when it's just a standard storm water system you run it through some sort of water quality component there's some pretty unique and pretty um pretty interesting things you can do you can you have these baffle boxes that have this naturally occurring uh it's
nutrient consuming BAC that goes in there so it consumes the NIT the the and really we're looking at nitrogen and phosphorus that's the when we say pollutant removal we're looking at to remove the nutrients in the form of nitrogen and phosphorus so we're going to have to catch rain water mhm filter it yep and put it in the river and then
put it in the river during normal conditions with this with this system if we are in an emergency situation where we're having to pump the water to keep homes from flooding we do not have to Route it through that water control the water quality now this project wouldn't benefit from any of other improvements
on the b19 because this is so far off we'd be pumping into it right and this is this is Downstream of that Weir device that we talked about earlier okay so this is this isn't the part of the b19 that froze flows freely I think uh councilman grub said it correctly when that when that wear is really ripping
over there at Taylor Road it's literally probably class two rapid running down right right down Downstream of of that Weir okay okay anything else on this I'm sorry go ahead no I just want to make sure okay
so Cambridge Canal so this is uh so we did Identify some some improvements we could do that to the Cambridge Canal Basin um but before I go through those I want to give you an update on the project that we're currently underd designed for because that's really the the the most important project we're working on down there so I'm going to
advance to the next slide and this really just shows the improvements that we're looking at doing there so if you look at the area of the of the laser pointer this is the area of our of our BM that failed during Hurricane Nicole um and what happened during Hurricane Nicole is we have this area to
the north which is connected to Rose Bay underneath the railroad tracks the water came up so high and with such force it flowed back into our pond up over our up over our verm and eroded it from the backside and that's what caused the failure
so that was that title surge so we're going to with this project we're going to increase the height of that BM approximately 3 feet if you don't mind and if if you don't have the well I know you do can you just so this area this particular project area didn't
exist prior to 2004 correct so if you could just recap the history of this area because I think it's important for us to know that this this was a very large probably the largest that I'm aware of in the city ever of a storm water mitigation project and a good and
it has worked it it has made significant improvements to the area but it needs to be better and I think that's what we're doing if you can just kind of touch base on that I think that's important and I wasn't here time but but post 2004 um there was some flooding down in in in
this area so the the city at that time um they actually constructed three different so there's Cambridge Canal North Cambridge Canal Central and Cambridge canal South projects they did this is part of the Cambridge Canal Central project that involved uh constructing these large storm water
ponds and con constructing a pump station to take the water from the Cambridge Canal north of north of Taylor Road all the way through the canal system and pumping it out to Rose Bay so as the the the ties have gotten higher and the surges have gotten higher
there was a a there was a weakness that was exposed right and the weakness that was exposed was even though we're still pumping the water we pumped into a trough right here and then relied on gravity to take that water out underneath the redroad Trussel and into Rose Bay and so what would happen was
when the when the bay would come up to a certain point um the the Army Corp of Engineers in St John's riverwater Management District required us to put a fail safe on it so when that bay reached a certain elevation there was a float and when we went into what we called high Bay it disabled the pump station so
the pumps turned off once the bay came up and we we did not not have a choice in that that was not our choice we were forced to to do that so the bay comes up Pump Station turned off and then we during the coal so we we went through hurricane in we and and we experienced
that bay got really high probably 7 8:00 at night pumps turned off there's nothing we can do about it because the bay is literally in the pond so you have they become one the Project's underwater Project's underwater and this is by order of the Army Corps of engineer that's correct so we have we have operational conditions of that pond that
we had to operate under you'd be pumping you'd be pumping a circle right that'd be like if your if your bathtub flooded into your bathroom and the water level was at the same that'd be like trying to pump out of your bathtub you're you're basically pumping the water to nowhere so that that's kind of the kind of the history of how it got there and
then and then how one one of the one of the unfortunate limitations that when they and and and this was a fantastic project they did they did almost everything right when they did this project I think the one thing that maybe they had a little bit of shortsightedness in and they didn't have a a city-wide model or or a master plan
working off of they were working off of what they what what what they thought was going to work right and it really did for the most part but having that Northern BM low like it was and relying on gravity was was the limitations of the project and kind of going back to the
very beginning of the presentation when we were talking about the outfalls the the map we showed with the purple arrows and the blue arrows and I kind of pointed out the two arrows that kind of come together in one point so that's this so if you'll if you'll see where the where the Cambridge Canal pump station is you can kind of see the
ponds on the bottom of the picture on the top of the picture that's where the Nova Canal discharges into there so we have our Nova Canal discharging under Nova Road into this little creek system and our Cambridge Canal Pump Station pumping to that exact same location so post
Hurrican we we went out and we we made some temporary repairs we we put in a a a large sandbag burm and we we piped in one of our pumps to pump around that BM so we had some pumping capacity in that and when we're testing that system uh myself and the deputy Public
Works director Brett Brett matter we were like we want to see what's going on right so we got some kayaks and we we got in kayaks and we kayaked out into that little Bay Area we kayaked underneath the Trestle we had a really slight incoming tide so really light
incoming tide and we turned that pump station on Let It pump let a pump for 30 45 minutes and what we saw was none of that water went under the Trestle that water just kept going north and kept snaking up North so that was kind of our aha moment it's like this there we we we
just found something that we might that that that might only be hurting the situation from the Nova Canal so that's when we made the decision on this project go back a slide is instead of letting this just naturally flow out to the north and and
and naturally going underneath The Trestle we're going to we're going to put we're going to pipe those three pumps together basically each one of them is have a pipe they're going to come together a common header pipe and that pipe is going to be 72 inch pipe so as tall as I am I'm going to be able to stand up in that piece of pipe that's a
big piece of pipe right I want that photograph it's turned on turn and then we're going to we're going to take and we're going to pump that water East underneath our the railroad tracks and so anybody we've ever talked to all the historical data we looked at we've never
had water over the railroad tracks down there so if we can get that water underneath the railroad tracks and build our BM up to the height of the railroad tracks we can Essence keep the baay out of our pond which we need to do so we can actually pump storm water not Bay water and then we're going to pump it East underneath the railroad tracks so
we're not fighting that Nova Canal water because right now we're pushing our pump water into that Nova Canal water and probably compounding the situation and making a little bit worse so and and that's really kind of why this project has been a little bit more difficult to permit because once you get East underneath
this railroad tracks then you're in an estuary that's governed by the Army Corps of Engineers and you have to follow their procedures and when you permit with the Army Corps of Engineers they are required to distribute your permit application to like eight other
federal agencies for review and none of these agencies have time periods for review so you you know the the FWC there's a bunch of different a bunch of different agencies that look at your permit application and they don't have to give you a a timely review or timely response we were very fortunate because
we we made our initial submitt right around the time of Milton kind of unfortunate timing and we've already got our first round of comments back from the Army Corps engineer we had three comments back from the Army Corps and none of them are going to derail the project so as soon as we received those
first comments we immediately proceeded so I'll take a step back I'm sorry so whenever you get to a point in your design we're about 60% designed that's when you go talk to the Army Corps of engine Army Corp of Engineers won't talk to you when you just have an idea right they say come back to me with what
you're going to do so we get to about 60% design and then we meet with the Army Corps of Engineers they told us the parameters that we had to permit by and so we submitted our permit application at that point received our first set of comments back from the Army Corps with no deal breakers it's we need to provide
them a little bit more detail on outfall structure and a couple other Minor Details so as soon as we got those comments back we're heading to 90% design right now so we're not we're not waiting to get a permit to finish the design we're going to we're going to we're going to go ahead and finish that design so we we're going to try to time it to get our Army Corps permit
approximate when we when we finish design which we're anticipating being in the fall of this year and then by the time we once we have the 100% design then we can start the bid process the bid process is a couple of months long because you have to put the proess project out to bid it's got to stay out to bid for 60 days
get your bids in analyze your bids award the contract so we're looking at starting construction on this project at the first of first of the year of 2026 so the question always comes down from what I've always heard and learned is f is FEC going to let us go
underneath the river tracks so so believe it or not FEC was the first people we contacted because FEC will talk to you with just an idea so they were they were one of our first pre-application meetings and FEC um as long as we design to their standards basically what FEC is looking for you is
they don't want you to affect their ballast of their tracks which is that big rock you know basically the burm that their tracks are buil on so as long as we don't affect their ballast we can we can go underneath their tracks but that's going to be that's going to be just getting underneath the railroad tracks is a massive project oh yeah
we're talking about because we're going to take that 72in pipe and we're going to split it back up into two smaller pipes because it's more realistic to get on the tracks with smaller pipes and then you got to do Jack and bors underneath that underneath the railroad tracks so we're going to even probably have to fill in a little portion of our pond just to get the pipe underneath the
track so it's a it's a really a a massive civil project and I'm does the sorry no go ahead do they does do the railroad tracks have to be closed down for any period of time while we're operating there so cuz I can't imagine them ever letting that happen so so you
you you can do a ride of Entry permit so whenever we surveyed the area so we had to get survey of both sides of the tracks there's a process you go through with the FEC they have flagman out there you have to be out there between certain periods so you don't affect their you don't affect them so you can be in the
track Corridor but all of our work so the beginning of our Jack and bore and end of our Jack and B are outside of their rideway so they will be an operation the whole time okay perfect I know in your on your document here it's got estimated number of properties helped by this is eight
that's that's talking about that I wanted to I'm going to get to that so so back to the storm water master plan now so I I took us off the storm water master plan cuz I thought it was important to give you an update on where we were at with that project CU I know that project has a lot of interest and I know that's a very important project
that we try to get done as quickly as possible so I wanted to make sure you had an update on where we're at so the the project that we identified in the master plan is really nothing more than so we've identified a couple of pinch points in in that Canal system so
so this this project we only show helping a handful of homes that's really going in and and looking if we can really maximize the efficiency of the Canal system and remove that pinch point that we've identified so the the the the number is
misleading because that little project isn't really going to do a bunch but it's going to help with the efficiency of but overall what we're talking about doing in that Cambridge project to enhance this and improve it we're talking hundreds hundreds of homes with the project I was talking about quite possibly thousands if it's going to benefit the Nova Nova Canal well the
this this canal system is is in a separate Basin okay so it it's completely separate I thought I thought when you when you're talking about the C no Absol you're you're actually right because we're not forcing water to Nova Canal good point right so that was what I was saying is that you know it actually stands to benefit the most
because we all know the no Canal is a huge problem I try I try to undersell these projects so that I can actually deliver on what I sell I appreciate that Jun know like it's it's hard to wrap the brain around something here so conceptually is water really coming
outside of Port Orange through the Nova Canal system as far away as Daytona Holly Hill maybe even Orman and getting discharged this far south into our city yes yes I mean a it might be a small percentage because I know there's some other outfalls but that just to say that and
and I know that's what we've talked about and that's what we hear but it you know that truly puts so this is the bottom of the funnel this is the this is the end of the line right yes and that's an excellent point so it it does and and and you're right not all of the water that that that lands in Orman Beach into
that system ends up to us but some of it certainly does but it's only like six outfalls from Orman all the way to here is it total it's three outfalls three so you know that water's coming here our work down here ultimately could benefit them up there it could yes good let's send them a bill well even with the even
with the pump systems that they put in at re Canal many years ago to to improve outfall through Reed Canal right you you've still seen like in in those major rainfall events you can still see the water passing through that just right on
by that pump system once it gets above that flapper door reing out won't it can't go back out it can't go to the river it closes off that door closes off right Juno the reality is is we've got some beautiful engineering and and
problem solving developed by multiple individuals youve laid it out my question to you is with vuia 386 the resilience Florida and things of that nature sharing some of this
engineering to the cities to the north of us so they can help build Canal systems like what we're talking about if they're if we're sharing engineering and I'm not speaking for y'all up here but if we're sharing engineering so they don't have to go out and spend the money
Holly Hill Day Daytona South Daytona you know whoever is above us at sending us their water it will ultimately help us in the long run sharing that information to them and Engineering to them so we
can mitigate the water before it gets to us that's corre and and that's where the the county through their through their Basin studies they're going to they're performing Basin studies not just for us corre I think I talked to to Ben Bary who's a who's a public works director there I think he said he has like 12 or 13 of these basis studies throughout the
county he's going to do so he's absolutely we're going to we're going to go all the way up all the way up to the east coast and the Nova Canal South Daytona is going to going to have some some the Count's going to help them with that so the sharing of the engineering part of it is really coming through the county at this point through that transform 386 but that's an excellent
point all right all right right ahead our next project is uh commwell Boulevard and rdwood Avenue Pump Station outfall um we I'm sorry he's going to hang out after the meeting you you I I man we can't we're not going
yeah we can't do that in the formality of this of of the meeting so that's okay after the meeting we can talk about if you have if you have something you want to clarify go ahead thank you U so the the Commonwealth Boulevard and Ridgewood Avenue Pump Station out and outfall improvements um I'll go at so you know
we have the standard uh design and permitting construction not a not a large benefit for this project but still was one of the area of Interest so this project if we look at the location so you'll see the if you can it's kind of hard to see
on the screen but there's a area in green that's hatched um and the area that's yellow that's hatched Commonwealth Boulevard kind of goes between those Ridgewood Avenue is on the right hand side and I believe it's the turn now is it that is it that corner so that's kind of your kind of you know
getting you on the map so to speak and so this project is is a couple of different things so we're this is the b23 canal that we're talking about another County Canal on the east side um so and this one we're going to
we're going to look to do some collection system improvements or adding some pipes or improving that Canal system to get to get more water to this Pond City currently owns this Pond right here we're going to outfit this pond with a pump station again to pump that
water from the b23 out east into the Halifax River and then heading south from so this is heading south of the The Pump Station we're also going to do some additional improvements south on the b23 to try to improve flow to the South and
eventually we we have a natural a natural outfall it's it's old fard road rideway I don't know if anybody really is familiar with that but we're going to use that existing RightWay as an out it's already an existing outfall point but we're going to improve that outfall there with this project so okay so so
Canal improvements pump stations to the North Canal improvements improved gravity outfall to the South that's what this project Ina us and this is another one of those projects that's going to have some probably some Outreach ing effects that we didn't account for in our in our
numbers any questions on that particular one Gentlemen We you down that was all right there more cutting and dve we getting close yep all right so the next one is we're calling our South Wind ponds outfall improvements and so the unique thing
about and sorry I I jumped ahead so this is our standard you know design time construction time a decent amount of uh of improvement with this one and yet another fairly High uh cost for this one so this is one of the one of the projects where we had a couple of areas
of interest that we combined into one project so the unique thing about our South Winds Pond is it's in what we call a closed Basin so that South Wind Pond does not have anywhere it currently has nowhere to discharge to so it fills up and it fills up and it just sits there
right it doesn't go down and it takes forever for it to go down so the idea behind this one is again we're going to so we're going to go here's meline Avenue is here let me get back to my pointer I assume you guys know exactly where these are because I
do so this is so back in this corner this is kind of where the Walmart Neighborhood Center is this is mateline Avenue here and this is the south wind development here so on the south side of meline Avenue is Viking Drive and Viking Drive has some some drainage issues it
was an area interest but it wasn't a big enough area to really kind of rate its own project so to speak so we're going to collect that that water on biking drive and Route it to that South Winds Pond might on the surface seem like a bad
idea but what we're going to do is we're going to so we have an existing and this is going to get probably a little more confusing than it needs to be but we have an existing what we call a reclaim augmentation station so back in the in the years when the
city was experiencing drought and they were trying to we were trying to expand our reclaim system what we would do is we would pump water from ponds into our sewer system and have that go to the Wastewater Plant to generate reclaim water because we needed more reclaim water to water yards with um those pump
stations ultimately did not function as designed because when you needed the water the most the ponds were too low to pump out of so you had you could only pump the ponds down to a certain area and whenever the conditions were really dry the ponds were too low so those reclaimed most of the reclaim augmentation stations have since been
abandoned this is one of those areas where we had a reclaimed augmentation station so we already have a little bit of infrastructure there we have a wet well there so we could potentially outfit that wet well with some storm water pumps and pump that storm and instead of pumping to the sewer system
we're going to take that water and pump it East so this is uh for this is Atlantic high school is on the on the North side so we're going to pump it kind of parallel to the southern B property for Atlantic high school and then if you see the the the big vacant piece of property outlined in Orange we
own that piece of property that's a city of Port Orange owns that piece of property it's almost it's almost a 30 acre piece of property so it's pretty sizable so the thought was that that the plan is to pump to dig to dig a large holding pond so the water that doesn't
drain out of South Winds Pond will pump to this big pond and we're just going to hold that water there once the storm has gone the flood waters go away then we can slow slowly release that water cuz it it eventually does ultimately outfall to the Nova Canal system and we're going
to design this project so that we're not going to be discharging to NOA Canal while the storm's going on because we have it this area the the land is actually fairly high so we get a decent you know 4 or five ft of storage before we hit groundwater so we can get a lot of storage out of this piece of property a good use for that piece of
property it's an excellent use and and probably have a little walking trail or something around it too any question on that project area no say Jun I know me and you've talked about this quite a bit as soon as I came a counsilman I got a good phone call
from a resident in that area and as soon as you turn on to South Winds it's a lake it is it is and and that water just doesn't go anywhere so it it it's a really difficult situation cuz then you have to pump that water some and and you you get right there at stop sign and the
storm water drain right and you go okay where's it go and then you follow it through permission of citizens to go through their yard and here's the lake that Southside Lake it's like okay so you take your truck you drive around to the backside well I know y'all see a
road on this here but when it rains there's no Road it's the two Lakes join to make one Lake and so and so for this one for for post hurricane in uh we were we were desperate for solution so we we saw that the Atlantic High School storm water system wasn't full so we went to
high school and said hey can we pump some water to your pond so they let us do that and we were able to pump that pond down and it actually it actually worked and we didn't overwhelm their system so that really is what kind of like spurred the idea for this project like we can we can effectively and it's not a lot of water that we have to pump
to get the water out of the out of the house and roads here yeah it's it's just enough to be in that c of saac area and 15 20 homes that are just inundated every time it range and nobody should have to deal with that who does that big pond R belong to so if you look at the
so the the the big pond is owned by the city okay that's a city- owned Pond we built that after that Community was developed that's correct that that was that was that we we expanded that pawn and took ownership of it right okay I remember that because that South Winds was built with no retention right correct crazy good in what year was
South Winds built 80s early probably right before yeah right before 1990 yeah right before 1990 early 80s so we own that one that's correct and what about the small one to the South the small one is is there Pond okay all right but when it rains it's
everybody's the the road in the middle goes away and it comes it turns into one big pond everybody's water at that point gotcha okay any else anything else on this one sense to mece Road drainage improvements so this I believe is a uh the final project for the evening we're going to
talk about we're call this our South Spruce Creek Road so this is an area um I'll go through the the the time frames the Rel relatively low number of houses and a fairly decent cost on this
one but for a point of reference uh the the top that's Central Park Boulevard and then Spruce Creek Spruce Creek roads coming down through it so this project involves again some collection system improvements on on the
northern part of it so collection system improvements here getting water so we're going to take water North to Central Park and then East and this this we're going to get it into what they call the the Cambridge Canal South
improvements so these improvements some there was improvements put in this area with with the Cambridge canal and at the very very east side of here just west of the railroad tracks we have a a pump station there it's a it's a it's a large 12in Thompson pump so it moves a bunch
of water and so we can effectively pump water so we're going to put more water there we're going to we're going to take a lot of this water from here route it North that pump station so we will have to make some Pump Station improvements maybe a larger pump we may even look at putting a a permanent Pump Station there with a electric pumps with a diesel
backup generator um we're a little bit sight constrained there we we only have an easement back to there and it's really tight to get back in there so we're going to have to be kind of creative with with how we get to that pump station and then the southern part of this project I'll zoom in a little bit so it's easier to see um the southern
part of this project is again we're going to do some gravity system improvements along long Spruce Creek Road which involved taking some of the some of the culverts on the side roads making them bigger so we can flow more water and we're going to get it down to um wish I had the pointer on the zoomed
in so this is Golden Pond right here Golden Pond Estates I believe is the name of the development yep uh the so the Spruce Creek Road RightWay down there we have a large a large area on the west side of the road that city owns and we're going to take that and basically turn it into a long linear
Pond system put a station in common theme and then pump that water from that part of the project South to Spruce Creek so this one is kind of a kind of a take the water to the South Pump It South take the water to the north take it up to our Pump Station and pump it
East any specific questions going back up to the the pumping North is it the Central Park and then East yes Central Park so this is all gravity and the the pump station is at the very east end up against the railroad
tracks so if you if you go to the south end of Trailwood Drive and then go go we actually have to access this pump station through some piece of property we have an access easement through there so that's why the site's kind of difficult but there's a there's a pump station back there gotcha the that pendry drive has some
issues with some flooding didn't it so we didn't we supposed to in the street though yeah I think that that was primarily Street flooding we haven't we haven't had a lot of uh residents contact us from that area we had we had more residents contact us from from the area along Spruce Creek Drive gotta
Spruce Creek Road I think in that area actually all right I know we need we're not done that takes us to the beginning I know right so we're not done but we got to take a short break cuz my as my dad would say my start May that's the end of my presentation good for you yes so uh let's take a quick 5 minutes and
and come back and then we great job we're going to bring it back to council for S some thoughts and questions and talk to the city manager about where we go from here okay five minutes yes e e e
e e e e e e e e e e all right we're going to bring this back
here uh to council for some some additional comments just a couple things that I wanted to to to to make mention of um and Wayne I guess just you can you can search Bas on all of these projects
we have we have timelines written into the projects I just want to make sure that we're being clear about what that time those timelines mean I'm trying to find one here so like if you look at Virginia Avenue drainage Pro it say estimated estimate estimate of design and
permitting time frame TR take your time I got it you're here 12 months estimated time construction time frame that's that's not today right that's meaning there's funding and we and we give that
project we like to go forward correct okay start on that or the clock starts when the funding is available to start the process so when you award a contract for design that's what that's for when you award a contract for construction all right and I I just wanted to be
clear about that because as we're kind of going through this and and I really do like I really like the idea of our team going into the community CU every one of these projects is different even though even though I know the theme tonight seems to be pump to the river pump to the river pump to
the river it's great but they're all different in how this is going to have to be executed and how it's going to work out so I do really like that idea a lot that we go into these areas and that we can spend more time and and and folks are going to have questions and and they
can pick Juno's brain and what about this and what about that which we've done a lot of already and we've already ruled out a lot of things that that can't be done because to to our surprise my surprise um you know you you just think well we just need more retention more retention more retention more
retention and and the realization is is that we can't create enough retention in these areas we are we those uh I don't know are you able to pull up those uh Google Earth images I sent do we have those or no it's okay it's it's fine but
if you look at if you look at Google Earth um and you look at these areas like Beacon Woods for example which is over there behind uh yeah Alberton the old Al used to be U that kind of stuff you know you look at those neighborhoods hundreds of homes no
retention whatsoever in fact that one that particular Community I got a lot of phone calls about talking about how the retention pond adjac in that neighborhood isn't enough well that retention Pond doesn't doesn't even serve that neighborhood that was done by dot um so there's nothing coming out of that neighborhood and so it it it
started making sense to me through conversations with the engineering team and staff that you're you're not going to retention your way out of this MH you're just not you're not going to be able to acquire enough property and and even then and a lot of areas the retention wouldn't be sufficient enough
to hold enough water um so it it becomes prettyy evident that you're going to have to have other plans which are incredibly expensive plans and they're going to take a long time and a lot of engineering and design to to be able to execute these so um I just want to make
sure that it's important as we go into the communities and we talk about these time frames that they they know these time frames are not press go today yeah these These are these are time frames we as we work to being able to get funding and move these projects off our list one
out of time and get to them that that's what will take once that point gets to each of those projects now that being said not that doesn't mean there are not other things that we can do that aren't part of these projects there are other things in the community I know junice was just having a conversation with one
of our residents there are other smaller things that we're going to be doing and we've always done to to look at the little small problem areas that we can fix quickly and get those underway without more engineering More Design more permitting and things like that and so stuff like that we'll always be
working to do that and so um I just want to make that that point clear any anybody have any other questions for junior we had to take a break did you want to come back up for just a second so I had to take a quick break but if we've got some more questions we're we're here we're working tonight so let's so so way back to back
to the the statement about time frames okay and let's just take an example is is sugar Forest okay we're saying okay we're going to design we're going to start design in 2025 okay and so that money the money for design we we've already allocated yes
sir okay but then once we get through design then we go to the bid process and we go to contract type process that's when the rest of the money has to be either in place or or the project stops until we go get the money correct and and this this is the project that we
have the legislative appropriation so that would put about $3 million into the pot we we have also uh we we we're getting close to the time we'd be eligible for the resilient Florida matches from that as well we also have we we have been every time we
get money now back from one of the storms so we got an Irma about a million dollars from Irma we put that into a pot to hold we had the property on Reed Canal we're trying to sell that would close this summer we would put that in the pot so we're starting to build funding million for that not 25 but
we're starting to build up parts of it to be able to do the construction of them and then you get the match we that becomes our match to the resilient Florida project some of these twoo is once we got them done and prioritized when we know what the cost benefits are we'll put them in the CIP is part of the
budget so we'll be looking at the long-term Construction in that and at that point you can decide do you want to go down a grant full because we've done that with parks in the past if you can get a grant you build a park you can't get a grant you don't so we chose to go down a bond process so you've got options to look at other things if you
choose you can borrow you can do bonds as well for storm water depending on what you want to do but those Finance discussions would be part of budgeting processes so you can look at the overall how we're running the city cuz I look at it like this and again excuse me no jumping is okay here here's sugar forest
and again this T something for the residents as well when we talk about the commitment of the city and how how serious we as a city are here's sugar forest and we're estimated $25 million for 400 homes it equates to about $62,500 a home but you go to some of
these other projects now you go to sleepy you got $17.5 million for 90 homes now we're at $195,000 a home you get up to some of these other ones you you know pona we're at $28,000 per home we keep
going you got a million dollars a home that we are investing to save 12 homes that's a lot of money conceptually conceptually I mean you I mean and the the prices keeps going up I mean Spruce Creek Woods 477,000
a home to help 22 homes that's a lot of money those are the ones where you're also going to want to consider your your options through Elevate Florida transform 386 the FEMA HUD and various sources to help individual homes Asos those numbers I'm looking at these
numbers just skyrocketing you know and in in the Commonwealth area as an example it's $17 million for 17 homes and to some extent the the the planning exercise is important to be able to help understand that like if you were just to
start it the day after the hurricane and say it's going to be too inexpensive to fix you're not going to have that credibility so if you go through the modeling process and show them what it takes and so this is what we're going to do the community can decide you what what will we do this may be the area where we try harder to do individual
homes because at $2 million a home maybe that's not the most pragmatic approach to go forward but the exercise allows you to see this is what it will take to stop that from happening right and I guess that's what I'm getting at is saying okay here we're able to identify these these areas what it takes to help
these homes and and so now looking at the cost is that cost is that cost feasible to go in and do that or is there another option that we might have to look at so yeah well that is going to be extensive conversation and hard decisions that this Council and and
councils in years to come are going to have to make is you are going to realistically have to look at something because here's the other side is when we're trying to acquire funding from these other mechanis these other you know government agencies and resources it's got to make sense on their end as
well you're you're not going to go to a lot of these agencies and say hey I need $15 million because I want to keep 15 houses I want to keep $10 million worth of property from flooding right they're going to they're going to look at you like you got three heads that's just not
going to happen so there there is going to be some really hard decisions and hard you know and conversations to have and and and we'll get to every single one of those yeah I I think what we're going to have to look at is and this is good that we're having this right now because I kind of wanted to have a
generalized funding conversation not to make any decisions tonight but I think what we should look at is right now we have some irons in the fire we we are actively pursuing funding that we feel good about that we think our chances are
good about and and and that's going to shake out through March and April mostly right end of April we should have a pretty good idea on transform 386 and our our luck at the state right I don't know how quick they'll get an answer that's when we're going be submitting them April May but in any regard once
we've seen how that plays out and what we can count on there then I really think this council is going to have to come back and have really a a strategy funding session moving forward CU we don't know what the next years are going to bring and we got to really explore what all the funding mechanisms could
could and couldn't be FEMA probably by that time is going to shake out a little differently and look differently if the concept is is to send that money back down to the States and let the states have more control we're going to have to see like what does that mean if the state has a program where okay if your house flooded twice in the last 10 years
it's eligible for 75% to be purchased and the city has to put up 25% or whatever those type of programs look like that's where a lot of those projects like that Lance yeah that's where those where those make sense you know and we they we went through something like that after 04 in the woods subdivision I think that was 7525
it sound about right yeah where FEMA put up 75% of the funding the city put up 25 and we acquired a lot of homes that we took out of the equation and guess what it didn't really help anything right it didn't help anything as far as any other home but none of those homes flooded
inmon they don't they're not there right so you know repetitive flooding homes and repetitive areas yeah are part of a real conversation to have because like Uno spoke about for 3 hours tonight realistically not every property in Port
Orange can be saved from a storm like Ian or a storm like Milton you have you have topography that is shaped like a bowl homes were built back in the 60s and70s where there is no retention no network no infrastructure anywhere in those areas to to really help to that
level and then at some point you are going to come across you know it is going to come down to cost right right I mean if if if you had a billion dollars to spend you could do some really awesome things but realistically when you look at some of these projects like I think Juno started
to say earlier on a project you know it wouldn't it just doesn't make sense to try to design a project to stop 21 inches of rainfall in certain areas because yeah the it's just not going to happen you know you're not going to get you'll never get there you'll never have
enough funding to get there so um what I what I would say Wayne and chime in here but I I think strategically we need to have a funding conversation so that we all better understand where are all the places we're going to try to go get funding how much funding do we get
within our own City what opportunities would there be for bonds and grants and all those different kinds of things you want to tou just maybe touch on that a little bit I don't mean to put you on the spot but but I mean it's going to come down funny and that's the thought process is the reason why we were going to wait till May to start doing the more detailed meetings because we want to make sure we've got all the numbers as
good as we can get them so that we can do exactly what councilman green was doing where you you're looking at cost per home so that you can make that decision so we that's what we were planning to put together late May is when we do the Capital Improvements program workshop with Council where we would cover some of that if it ends up
being something that's big enough that it needs to be its own we can do it Standalone but we'd give you here's all the the options that you have to available to you to make these decisions and just like you said this is the up pros and cons of bonds pros and cons of of of going to Grants because you you
may just have to wait for a while to get there so we'd be able to put all the here's all your financing options and here's the costs and benefits of doing them that way yeah I'd like to say a couple things if I could um I don't I don't think I get I think we got to be really careful when we talk about cost
per home because we're talking about a $12 million project but we're talking about a Project's going to last and benefit 30 plus years so yeah it's it's $12 million or it's $20 million but that's onetime cost that's going to
improve the that area for a very very long time and if you break it down to yeah I mean if we did cost per home I'd say no to all this and let's just let the the cards fall where they are and let's see what happens like it's happening down in South Florida where
people are coming in they're tired of flooding they're selling their properties and investors are what they're doing is they're buying the whole neighborhood not one house not two house they're buying blocks and they're knocking them all down and they're redeveloping today's standards and they're getting a lot more money for
that property not saying people need to sell out I hate to see that people these are lifelong homes and and I love the fact that people own a home and they live there for a long period of time at some point you got to decide can I continue to do this do I make an
investment and lift a home do I make an investment and rebuild the home or I just let it go and the problem when the city buys the house nothing can ever be built on it again yeah it comes off tax roll so it comes off the tax roll and now it's just a vacant lot sitting in the middle of the neighborhood so at
some point we have to look at okay the cost per home what the benefit is what the long-term benefit is and is it just better to just let the cart fall where they are and let someone come in and say look I'm going to give you 250 for that house and I'm going to give your neighbor the same and I'm going to give the neighbor the same and I'm going to
unnown block and I'm going to come back to the city and say I want to redevelop the whole thing I witnessing this across the street from my parents house right now in Fort Lauderdale where a two acre lot that had a bungalow on it that flooded during a hurricanes now it's eight units they're
selling for $850,000 a piece and that's part of Redevelopment and they're not going to flood they're designed not to so at some point we do have to look at where do we just say hey we can't financially do this because we've got
you know 50 other per of the people that live in this city that pay these tax dollars and they got to say to us hey that's not a wise way to spend our tax dollars doing this so we have to look at the big picture and funding and I know that this city and I'm confident in our
engineer and our staff to go out and G grant money I'm very very impressed and I want to share this with the public with our city manager and our engineer when we went to tassi they were so prepared they had us so prepared to present to the people that are making
these decisions because ultimately the governor and his Senate and his his house they make these decisions on where do money's going they uh put together one heck of a presentation I'm very impressed with that and I thank you for that because we felt very very uh
prepared and our assistant City Manor so thank you so much the presentation was incredible but at the same day we're looking at money and our tax dollars and U so well I think I think to that I there's are great points and I think to that too is that you're going to have to
correlate the dollar to what we can really do like like junus is saying you know these projects are being designed to this standard of about 12 in that means they're not going to stop any in so if you put $17 million out for
however many 17 20 properties you have to knowingly do that and move forward down that path knowing if it's a Milton and an Ian that money didn't help that that those properties still got flooded am I saying am I saying conceptually am I am I right on that or correct no I
think conceptually you're correct but I I think that because we did um we were so conservative with a lot of arrestment that we could probably handle more I and Milton are are are going to be really difficult storms to handle no matter what we do uh especially a storm like
Milton believe it or not because of that kind of rainfall intensity but but in essence you're correct with what you're saying yes so there'll be a lot there'll be a lot of I think that conversation we have to do something so I want to ask you and I want to touch on something that that
bothers me okay and it's and it's the bureaucracy of the permitting process now the mayor May mentioned saying you know reach out to to Senator Wright and reach out to Chas is there somebody in these permanent processes that we can reach out to to say listen you know you
just don't have your own time frame to to to look at these permits or to to get the I mean this seems to me like nobody nobody cares Beyond us that we need this permit to do this work is there something that citizens can do or they
could reach out to to say look you know D or FWC whoever let's get this thing to the top of the list or how does that work well that that's not my area of expertise but I would say that's probably you're probably more beneficial to reach out to your elected officials at the state level because in they
they're the ones that have the power to potentially enact permitting changes uh the permitting agencies aren't doing anything purposely to to to slow these projects down they have they have a set of standards and a set of rules that they have to permit by just like our own permitting staff we have a set of of rules and standards that we have to
permit by so it it' really be up to the to the higher levels in the state government and when you talk about the Army Corps of Engineers then you're getting into the federal government but I'll give you an example we made a point in board orange to say okay if you had how if you had damage your home from a hurricane we're going to get you your permit and it's not going to cost you
nothing we got it out the door like in this situation this is a critical situation straight up all this flooding is a big deal our local representative that we're working with at the Army Corps of Engineers has been very helpful to us I so so him as a person he's doing everything that he can do to help us get
through this thing as quickly as possible because he understands the urgency but he is still limited by by by by the rules that he has to permit by okay I'm just yeah and I I will say that I I I hope that that there is a Wind of Change so to speak because I you know
years and years ago when we were talking about projects with the Nova Canal for example and and getting the state on board and seeing some movement with the studies and stuff like that there just wasn't a whole lot there now I think now I think there is I mean there's you know we heard that in tasse I think we're
hearing that around the the local network of elected officials that the Army Corp of Engineers is re-engaging and and and kind of doing some studies with Daytona and things like that and and now I know that you know the county there's going to have to be a regional
plan for these for these bigger scale things the Nova Canal system for example or b19 I mean it's got to come from higher levels and I and it sounds like they're willing to have those discussions and do those studies to try to see what can be done to improve that
so I I'm not so confident that was the case you're saying you look at these time frames and and and and you got people out here that have rebuilt for the second time in two years and we're 3 years away away from a project minimum
from the and that's from one project let Al all just one project that's frustrating to me three times since 20 2004 yeah that's just frustrating to me because you know this is a critical situation I agree not just in Portland but all over the
state anything else for junos no thank you so much man great job fantastic Tracy to you jump in there Tracy you've been writing down a bunch of notes man these are these are notes for everybody go ahead but uh Juno I want to thank you very very
comprehensive uh when kimley horn came in and they this going to sound bad gave their Spiel take that the wrong way gave the Spiel it's it's you want to come in here and be able to break it down to the general public so everybody knows
exactly what we're talking about um all the councilmen have talked about this you know it's it's dollars and cents homes and things of that nature and to give you all an ideal you're talking about dollars and cents if we took the top five projects out all nine because
it's it's budgetary but top five projects that affects the most impact of homes and things of that nature it's a tune of about $78 million we've always talked about matching if we can get the state to come in on that 78 million because it takes years for us to get All the Monies in
place to begin with that spits us out to about 39 million I know some where between the properties and all the Acquisitions and sales that we've had in the past we could probably Scratch Out 9 million that leaves us with about a $30 million tag right now and we can go Juno
you you got this go knockout five projects what I'm suggesting and and I know we're not talking about votes and things that tonight but on $30 million on a 20-year Bond on a 20-year note bond is simple math
30 years or excuse me $30 million 20-year Bond that's $1.5 million a year being paid back on a bond without interest so I don't have the interest factored into that this is just simple math we have close to 25,000 residences
and businesses inside the city just so y'all can keep that number in your head at $60 a year if we did a flat across the board to pay that note on a 20-year bond that
makes sense because the people paying it you living here 20 years from now are helping pay it but we have a storm water tax now we do and that's the question of that storm waterer tax is how that gets distributed and what we're using it for I'm not saying take it away from that I
know we talked about a incremental positioning of raise to those tax bases but we're we're looking at a solution how do we get here how how do we get to this next one to go Juno take your team and make it happen it's it's
understanding the brass tax of things approximately 60 bucks a resident is what we're talking about to make this happen without interest figured into it wrong you did 65,000 population right you're talking about res
units 25,000 residents as far as homes roay tax pay property taxes and and the storm water feed just give you a little background on it and this is generalizing the the broad number but we went when we went through that when we we put the increase in about 85% of it
goes into projects very little of it goes into staff there's not that many people and right now we we are sitting on a couple million of it we have to hold on to because that's our share of all those FEMA matches that are out there so that's about what we would have
for projects it does not generate a a we don't have a savings account in it of huge amount of numbers to do Capital so it's it's pretty well used up by by all the maintenance that he took you through the people doing that and then some of the smaller level projects if we didn't have that money set aside for FEMA you
you would have uh about 2 million maybe 1 to two million a year that you could put into Capital that would come back but it's not going to it's not going to reach the the levels to really be meaningfully helpful with these big $20 million projects yeah well this is a this is an addition to what we already
got going on so so you would have to like as you said you'd have to either choose debt or or some other method and you're assuming you get all 50% matched that's cons exactly you'd have to have 50% matched to make this happen right but we're also talking about we're
fighting for dollars and it's getting those dollars from those entities they're not going to come in and go you guys look great in Port Orange we're going to do all five projects you and I both know that's not going to happen but if they're doing one and two a year it's going take you that long to
get it through Army Corps of Engineers hope not anything else yeah that's all read Juno first off great presentation um and thank you to kimley Horn everybody this this is um this is what I was hoping for it's
it's better than I hoped as far as feeling like I can look at this from a data driven perspective and make decisions based on that um it's not hey I have this theory that if we dig this this Pond that it's going to be better
proven and and scientific in some way and so I'm very appreciative of that um I think this was a great investment I think we've learned a lot here funding wise I think we ought to be very careful at trying to tag it down to price per
home um it is everything uh when it comes to the government is is financial someone has to pay for it and it's us our residents and our businesses and so we're going to have to be very very careful how we navigate these but I also don't think we want to start immediately
dismissing projects because something that um I learned tonight through this entire presentation is that there's some projects that you've conservatively say will help 12 homes right and 12 million for 12 homes I get is ridiculous that's
makes no sense at all but there can be additional benefits as we are finding if something is adjacent to the Nova Canal or the b19 that would benefit possibly thousands of homes up the way um what's
probably I appreciate the conservative estimate and I like us being that way I do think as we have to start making decisions financially as to which projects we want to pursue especially which ones we want to pursue first I
think we're going to need maybe a little more detail and a little more range as to this we feel really good about it helping this many and there's a good chance for these and and there's a minimal chance for these but I think it's going to have to be a little more rainbow not black and white um because
we're going to need that information uh otherwise we're just going to sit here and say well 12 homes 12 million and all of us are going to look at each other like we can't go that way and I don't want to go that way with it I I want to see all these projects get done if it makes sense uh both financially and and
Fe feasibility and in terms of uh timelines and everything else M wa were you about to say something I saw you P I was just going to say one of the things that does help us bigger picture so the the Basin studies that J know was talking about so the larger County studies of the whole basins because if
you look at what we showed you not not every part of the city has a project so the b19 study comes in to lower the Weir or build something else it's it's easier for the water to get through stick some back flows on it a lot more lot lot easier to pay for that helps the people
in Willow Run I know Willow Run Is Not The Only Name there's six or seven neighborhoods in that broad area but it helps those areas and going up up b19 the big issue of what do you do with Nova Canal so you mentioned a couple of the other neighborhoods that weren't in there the ones in a little Southern
areas that that are like Beacon Woods that that still run the same problem they gravity off into Nova and can't get anywhere the extra outfall that we've been talking about whether we work with the state and the federal government and the county to pay for something that we do off of Reed Canal where we build
another one that parallels dun Lon and pushes it out so some of these projects aren't going to just be on Port oranges back the idea would be to to have Regional projects where everybody's putting in and our share may be a much more reasonable part of a big Regional one you get something like that in an
outfall off Nova then then you help a whole bunch of people doing that as well and and we're not the only ones writing the check for that no absolutely yeah you know the one thing I think of is we won't we won't beat this to death much more tonight like we're getting there on the funding part but the one thing to
keep in mind is you don't know what you don't know right so I think what you're going to see evolve because we've seen it in the past with FEMA dollars is once you pass on something you may own it all so what I mean by that is is H hypothetically you've got a project area and you've got
a $15 million project and and and the other the other uh government agencies that are involved in the funding look at it and go okay we're we're not supporting a $15 million project for $8 million in property right and so they
they may say look you had an opportunity here was this program where you could get 75% of the funding you match it with 25 and you buy those properties because they're no longer going to be insurable because that's another mechanism that's going to have to be considered is could it even be insured again uh because I
think you're you're seeing that happen now in discussions at the state level you know they're trying to figure out because these insurance companies don't want to Ure properties anymore like this so anyway I it's going to get complex it's going to be hard decisions I think
some of the the the the I'm not sure the right term but the valuation of you know the a project area versus what the cost of the project is is going to be part of that discussion as opportunities come available and like I said you know
president Trump I think has pretty much said right out he wants to do away with FEMA so there's going to be a new look more than likely of what that agency looks like and whether that becomes more State controlled or how that shakes out it's just something we're going to have to watch CU that's going to we're going to have to be fluid
on that we're going to have to adjust to that stuff but I think we may have an opportunity with the Elevate Florida concept and and H guys have been doing a little bit more with it but the the one of the challenges that the original uh cdbg or the the the FEMA projects was that the homeowner if you just elevated
had to pay their 25% so a typical house that was like3 $335,000 so they would have to go mortgage another 30 grand on these houses to elevate them so one there's this stigma of I don't want to have my house up on sticks in a neighborhood when other people don't and then there's where am I going to get $30,000 when I've already got a damaged
house to elevate it so where Elevate came in is one speeds it up and two they were paying that match so you didn't have to do it so it may be in the long run and we trying to come up with ideas here is getting rid of some of the stigma in in getting them to because they're they're going to run out of
money pretty quick and Elevate Florida because you don't have to put the match into do it so maybe get the state on board to keep pushing that at that elevated you you pay for it you do the price and and you're able to get 2 200 homes done that way instead of 40 and then you're able to focus on some of the
bigger areas where where you do have a cluster like a Sleepy Hollow where you know it's you're going to have to take 40 homes to all in one group to elevate or you that project seems to be way more of a cost benefit winter uh in a big way so so you know if if maybe that's
approach is to try to make the one off one house at a time thing way more feasible for people in the long run because it's like you said if we buy them we're stuck with a piece of land that's off the tax we had to go mow it now all the time so we've got to maintain this forever um if they if they
own it live in it they get to stay in their neighborhood kids get to go to the same schools they just have a house a little bit higher up and if you're not having to come up with $30,000 to match to put it in there maybe more people will do it and that maybe that takes care of your areas where the big project just isn't as feasible yeah well we
there I'm sure there's going to be some Creative Solutions we can find I think just as we go through this whole process you know yes there are properties and there's homes and there's dollar signs and all that but it's people's lives and so we want to make sure we're just very careful with our tone and our approach because we are talking about things for
a lot of people it's their biggest investment and so I just you know just want to make sure we we have to do what's right by our citizens and we have to do the right thing from these from our seats but we also are talking about people's entire entire livelihoods we just want to be careful about how we approach and that we don't become cold
and just strictly focused on just the numbers well we want to over over the next 3 to four years for sure we want to aggressively pursue every dollar we can out there because hopefully what will happen is is we're going to go through a long period of time without a bunch of
these crazy storms but the the the reality what that will will do is there will be less and less funding available because it's hot it's a Hot Topic right now it's a it's a it's when you have natural disasters you see this infusion of funds from the federal governments down into the states the states put more
money up and and all that kind of stuff but then you go through those periods of times where you where those things aren't occurring and and there's other projects that start rising up whether that's Transportation or whatever in the state and so we've seen that in the past so the the the goal for now and and the
focus is let's get as much as we possibly can pursue everything we can maximize every dollar I think this I think the storm water plan the modeling gives us a lot of confidence yeah um in the money that does need to be spent that this will be very beneficial you can see that in Tallahassee when when
we're talking that way so but like you said that we're not the only one there for the dollar there's cities all over Florida that are a lot of the state somewh worse than us a lot it's true yeah a lot so anything else you guys want to touch on tonight are we good
thank you very much junos thank you very much thank you to all the staff everybody that's played a role in this we appreciate you guys thank you