WEBVTT

METADATA
Video-Count: 1
Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=vY2tSZCzfxY

NOTE
MEETING SECTIONS:

Part 1 (Video ID: vY2tSZCzfxY):
- 00:01:27: Invocation, Pledge of Allegiance led by Elementary Students
- 00:04:53: Roll Call, Buddy Davenport Absence, Public Comment Begins
- 00:05:29: Public Comment: Robert Ryan Hagan - Riverwalk Agreement
- 00:06:54: Consent Agenda Approval and Golf Advisory Board Appointment
- 00:07:58: Discussion, Motion, and Approval of Golf Advisory Board
- 00:10:30: Memorial Day 2026 Proclamation and Public Comments Start
- 00:11:59: Public Comment: Angela Leduc - Flock Safety Cameras
- 00:14:59: Public Comment: Rebecca Gatton - Chamber of Commerce Events
- 00:15:34: Council Member Comments Begin: Sidewalks, Park Boardwalk
- 00:17:11: Council Member Comments: Rotary Club Cleanup Success
- 00:18:47: Council Member Comments: Inter-Government Communication Needs
- 00:22:49: City Manager Comments: Riverwalk, Stormwater, Parks Updates
- 00:27:51: City Manager Comments: Disc Golf, Trail Projects Updates
- 00:29:14: TPO Citizen Advisory Committee Report by Bobby Ball
- 00:30:01: Public Hearing: Ordinance 2026-2 Land Use Amendment Begins
- 00:31:57: Public Comment: Jan Albert - Hydrology Concerns
- 00:34:44: Public Comment: Gary Singleton - Moratorium, Stormwater Concerns
- 00:37:37: Public Comment: Mike Ponitaski - Low Impact Development
- 00:40:01: Council Discussion and Vote: Ordinance 2026-2 Passes 4-1
- 00:43:28: Second Reading Ordinance 2026-3 Rezoning, Discussion Begins
- 00:50:32: Public Comment: Resident details city-based flooding concerns
- 00:53:34: Public Comment: John Gerchak - 1-Year Moratorium Rule
- 00:55:33: Public Comment: Robert Ryan Higgins - Spruce Creek Impairment
- 00:56:22: Public Comment: Matt Druce - Dissatisfaction With Council
- 00:57:50: Council Discussion and Vote: Ordinance 2026-3 Passes 3-2
- 00:58:09: Council Committee Reports: First Step Shelter and Chamber
- 00:59:45: Council Committee Reports: Art House Fundraiser Success


Part: 1

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Please rise for silent invocation and remain standing for Pledge of Allegiance by the Sugar Mill Elementary National Elementary Honor Society students. Amen. All right, can you guys come on up here to the uh the podium for us? >> [snorts]

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>> And when you guys are ready, you can lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance tonight. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with

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liberty and justice for all. Okay, if you guys can wait right there, the rest of us can sit. We have six questions we're going to ask each of you tonight. All the questions are different. I hope you studied. Starting with math.

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>> to start down this end. If you guys would, come on up here to the microphone. You can kind of pull that down a little bit, okay? Come on up here. We want you to tell us your name, tell us what grade you're in, and what is your favorite topic in school that you like to study. My name is Holden.

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I'm in fifth grade, and my favorite topic is math. Nice. Very good. Well done. >> [applause] >> My name is Skye. I'm in fifth grade, and my favorite topic is math. That's nice. All right.

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>> [applause] >> My name is Owen. I'm in fifth grade, and my favorite topic is also math. Very good. My name is Delilah. I'm in fifth grade, and my favorite topic is reading. Nice. My name is Kylie. I'm in fourth grade,

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and my favorite topic is reading. All right. I'm Ethan. I am in fourth grade, and my favorite topic is math. Nice. I'm Isabella. I'm in fifth grade, and my favorite topic is math. >> [applause] >> My name is Oliver. I'm in fifth grade,

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and my favorite topic is science. All right. >> [applause] >> My name is Will. I'm in fifth grade, and my favorite topic is social studies. All right. Please introduce yourself. I'm Buffy Snipes, the AP at Sugar Mill

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Elementary. My favorite subject IS MATH. AWESOME. >> [applause] >> ALL RIGHT. WELL, WE WANT TO WE WANT TO THANK YOU guys for being here tonight. We start every meeting with an invocation and a pledge of allegiance, and we are so grateful that you guys took some time to come to see us tonight

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and do that. So, thank you very much. Uh as a side note, I would let you know that part of introducing yourselves, we were looking to see who really liked math because our finance director is sitting right over there. She starts recruiting really early. So, we don't have any NIL deals, but uh

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but she does start recruiting. So, you guys excited about summer being right around the corner? Yeah. School year is almost over, right? So, well, we hope you guys have a wonderful, wonderful summer, and thanks again for coming tonight. Good job, guys. THANKS, GUYS. YEAH. >> [applause] >> WILL CLERK CALL THE ROLL? COUNCILMAN FOLEY? HERE. Councilman

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Giffords? Here. Councilman Green? Is here. >> Vice Mayor Grubbs? Yes. >> Mayor Stilwell? Here. Everybody is here. Item four was a presentation by Buddy Davenport, the chairman of the Florida Inland Navigational District. He unfortunately had an incident uh late

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this afternoon, and he will need to reschedule. So, he will not be here. Um but that's going to bring us quickly to item five. Public [clears throat] comments on consent agenda items only. Any public comments on consent agenda items only? Robert, welcome.

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Good to see you. Mayor, council members, Robert Ryan Hagan, Port Orange. Uh I would like to talk about item number 10, license agreement for the use of the Riverwalk Trail for special events. Um this uh

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summary here says that um it's limitation to use of use to Sunday only. But when I read the license agreement, I can't find that in the license agreement. The only reference to Sunday is it's just says

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the licensee currently hosts a weekly Sunday morning waterfront market creating a community-oriented market experience conjunction with the restaurant special events. And when you read special events, it says approval by the city for any

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special event shall be required in accordance with the code of ordinance. Um my concern is that uh ultimately uh you know, they might open it up again for Friday or Thursday or another day uh because it it just is not

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clear. It it's it's much too vague. So um I think you need to get some clarity there. Thank you. Thank you, Robert. Thank you, Robert. Good job. >> Anyone else on consent agenda items only? All right, back to council. Council, can I get a motion to approve consent agenda

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item 6313? Move to approve consent agenda item 6313. Second. We have a motion and a second. Will the clerk call the roll? Councilman Bolling? Yes. Councilman Gephardt? Yes. >> Councilman Green? Yes. >> Vice Mayor Grubbs? Yes. Mayor Restaino? Yes, 5-0. I'm aware that we have a

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little bit of a conflict with our agenda and also a neighborhood HOA meeting involving a Cypress Head. So I'm interested to see do we have a which our Golf Advisory Board appointment item 19. Do we have anybody who would like to make a motion to move that up to the

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agenda for us to take care of now? So moved. Second. We have a motion and a second. All in favor signify by saying I. I. I. All right. So let's go ahead and move We're going to move item 19 Golf Advisory Board appointments up and get

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that taken care of now. And unfortunately, I don't have my computer with me yet. Uh Oh, there he is. >> [laughter] >> A little bit of an IT issue. None of the students, they were all math, science, and reading or I was going to pass this on to one of them. Um

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Can uh Wayne, can you bring us up to speed on this item what we're doing here while I'm trying to get logged in? I know we've got to fill some positions here. Do you need to put your or somebody on council? One of the council citizens may know what it is. I do. Uh so, there's uh

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there's four There's four seats that are actually up uh for uh reappointment to a 3-year term. Um and as part of the ordinance, the golf advisory board is is supposed to have uh somebody from the

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women's golf, from the men's golf, and etc. So, what we have here is two people are stepping down. Uh Miss Jane Taylor, who's been on this board for a long, long time. And she also represents our HOA and her neighborhood, so

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she is stepping down. And so also is uh Mike Bagnato, and he's here tonight. And again, we want to appreciate his service. So, we have two people that are up for re reappointment, and that's Gary Brigadoe and Dennis Flash, who uh I know Dennis

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been on there quite some time, but uh there are two new applicants, Holly Perpall and What is the other one there? James Walsh. James Walsh. So, um with that, I think um basically, you got you got two people trying to fill two seats

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uh and two reappointments. Okay. Would somebody like to make a motion to that? I'll make that motion to uh to reappoint Dennis Flash, Gary Brigadoe, and to appoint Holly Perpall and James Walsh to

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uh to these new three-year terms. I'll second it. All right, we have a motion and a second. Would any of the applicants like to speak? You guys want to talk us out of it? >> subject is not >> [laughter] >> Hopefully golf, right? All right. Uh Jim Walsh is out of town,

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but I'm here and I'm supporting him. Okay, excellent. Thank you. >> That's good. All right, so back back to council. Council members, any comments? All right, we have a motion and a second. All in favor of this uh motion, say "I". I. I.

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Any opposed, like sign? 5-0, just like that, you're hired. Thank you. All right. The pay The pay is incredible. >> [laughter] >> Thank you, guys. Oh, yes, for sure. >> All right, that's going to put us back on schedule here to item 14, Memorial

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Day 2026 proclamation. So, give me just a moment. Let me go ahead and read this. Whereas, since our nation's founding, American sons and daughters have given their lives in service to our country. Each day, as Americans, we enjoy the freedom, peace, prosperity, and

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independence. These are virtues upon which the United States was built and ideals that bind us together as a nation. And whereas, the first Memorial Day was observed in 1868 in remembrance of soldiers who died in the Civil War. And since that year, our nation has set

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aside this day to pay homage to American patriots who have fallen in service to our country. And whereas, on Memorial Day, we pause to remember that freedom comes at a great cost. Throughout history, American military personnel have stood tall to oppose the enemies of

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freedom. Many of these brave servicemen and women gave their lives to defend our liberty and to uphold the promise of our democracy. And now, therefore, I, Scott Stiltner, Mayor of the City of Port Orange, Florida, do hereby present this proclamation in remembrance of Memorial Day and urge all citizens to show

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respect for our veterans and continue to remember and appreciate the sacrifices they have made for freedom. Public participation, non-agenda. We have Angela Leduc. Did I say that right? Did I get the last name right? All

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right. Welcome. Thank you. Angela Leduc, 674 Herbert Street. Thank you, council members, for listening to what I have to say tonight. In 2022, the city entered into a 2-year agreement with Flock Safety for nine Falcon cameras. The contract renewed in 2024

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and it's set to expire this year. I'm here tonight to ask you not to renew this agreement. The taxpayers have spent at least $103,000 over the last 4 years to be unlawfully surveilled. These Falcon cameras are marketed as automated license plate

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readers. They are actually AI-powered surveillance machines that capture every passing vehicle and person and transmit that data to a private corporate cloud that state and federal agencies can search at will. Flock Safety is a private for-profit

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tech company with no transparency laws and no oversight. Their 90,000 cameras nationwide are always watching. Their algorithm never sleeps. 24/7 location tracking should require a warrant to

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uphold the Fourth Amendment. In 2012, US vs. Jones, the Supreme Court said you can't track a car without a warrant. You can't retrace your steps from information collected from third parties. In 2018, Carpenter vs. US, the court said a person does not surrender

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all Fourth Amendment protection by venturing into a public sphere. These cameras continuously record our movements without a warrant, probable cause, or even reasonable suspicion. Privacy is a right we must demand and protect for everyone in Port Orange. [clears throat]

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The city does not control the data and the residents have no public record against a private company's servers. Privacy Privacy isn't about hiding wrongdoing. It's about autonomy, dignity, and the ability to live free from unjust scrutiny.

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Our data the Our data is simply just not safe in the hands of Flock. YouTuber Ben Jordan has discovered their system is severely compromised. He found that many cameras are live streaming directly to the open internet and that any reasonable skilled hacker can gain access to these cameras.

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I would like our city to audit the vulnerabilities of this software that we are paying for. I will also ask you to have a vote to early terminate this contract and remove all Flock cameras from our city.

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Many cities nationwide are in lawsuits and are canceling their contracts. From Ithaca, New York to Santa Cruz, California to Austin, Texas to Cambridge, Mass and many, many more. Taxpayer money is funding data harvesting and I ask you not to renew this contract.

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I'll end with a quote from Benjamin Franklin. "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Rebecca Gatton with the Port Orange [applause] South Daytona Chamber of

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Commerce. Welcome. Thank you. Good evening. Rebecca Gatton, uh 3250 South Nova Road. And I am here representing the Port Orange South Daytona Chamber of Commerce. I want to thank you all for your continued support

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of our wonderful chamber. We do have a couple of coming up on Memorial Day, May 25th. We do have a ceremony here out at the pond at 10:00 a.m. And then there is a ribbon cutting on June 2nd at 4:00 p.m. Realty Pros assured on Dunlawton.

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So, thank you again for your support. Excellent. >> Thank you. Is that it? Is that all we had at the meeting? Yes, sir. Okay. All right. Council member comments. Let's start with Mr. Foley tonight. >> Uh nothing tonight, Mayor. All right. How about Mr. Grubbs?

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So, on uh consent agenda item number nine, uh just wanted to bring up some of the importance of what's going on with the sidewalks. We're about halfway through um sidewalks on Willow Run. Uh one of the big keynotes here is is everybody's always asking why it takes

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time to get things done. And the reality is is this project has been slated for many years. I mean many years, over eight years. And uh the beauty of it is is uh it's over half a million dollars.

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And it it gets down to the taxpayer money when it all shakes out to about $55,000. It's all being paid by Port Orange. So, sometimes waiting, it comes around, it saves the taxpayers thousands of dollars. So, thank you for

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staff and the citizens for waiting to be able to get this project together. It's on the home stretch now down by Williamson being cut in. 12-ft path going all the way around uh Willow Run and connecting into Town Park. So, that should be done here within the next

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month. Um and then Memorial Day uh park boardwalk is all set up and ready for the Memorial Day event this weekend. So, if you haven't been over there and look at it, the the staff did a phenomenal job rebuilding that area. It

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looks beautiful and it should be a great event. Absolutely. That's it. Sean, how about it? Yeah, so uh Saturday I got to participate in the Rotary Club Port Orange South Daytona's uh road cleanup. They decided to tackle uh

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Riverfront Park and uh from basically the chamber office uh where the the the kayak launch all the way to Dunlawton. And uh I started in that area working my way through our property and I I was really impressed with the fact that I

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didn't have a lot to pick up. Uh our staff is doing a really good job of keeping uh debris that comes off of trucks and gets gets left behind by uh folks uh just keeping it uh clean. I really appreciate that. There was a lot of debris that we picked up along the

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river. And that just happens uh every time I've done a river cleanup. It's you know, it just that's where it ends up is on the shoreline. There was quite a bit of debris on the uh west side of Tiki Dock's parking lot where people parked and drink and throw their cans over into our

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property there, but uh outside of probably 50 mosquito bites, [clears throat] um I'm doing pretty good and uh our staff is doing a pretty good job of keeping that area clean, so we certainly do appreciate that. Uh I did find though there is a um shopping cart in the middle of the

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property that we failed to get, but that's still sitting there. Shopping carts have a have a life of their own sometimes. I have no idea where it came from. Anything else? Nope, that's it. Excellent. Sugreen? Nothing tonight. Nothing. All right. Just a couple of short things and and we don't have to have a lot of discussion

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on it tonight or make any decisions, but uh and I'm going to talk to the city manager a little bit more about this, but one of the things I want to make sure that we're doing we we get a tremendous amount of citizen contact and concern about issues that are not related to the city governance. A lot of

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the lot of the the concerns or comments we get a lot of times are related to county government or state government or or or what have you. Um and and I'm concerned that we haven't ever had really a good discussion on some consistency on how we forward that to those agencies. Now, I

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believe, and we'll get the city manager he doesn't have to come in and I don't like I'm not trying to put him on the spot, but I know through our internal process system that they do have a process if a citizen sends in something and says, "Hey, I'm concerned about this in in this particular area." And it turns out it's county, they forward it. But, here's what I don't I'm not sure is

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happening. The elected officials for those areas, I don't think are are being informed about it. They're not hearing about it unless we are reaching out to them to, you know, the the county county district rep or the state representative or the state senator or whatever and passing these things on.

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So, I want to just have a little discussion about it. Be thinking on that. I want to have some consistency on how we do that because I want to make sure that not only our staff to those government agency staffs are are getting the information on what the concern is, but I want to make sure those elected

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repres- -entatives for those other organizations, government, whether it's school board, county council, state representative, state senators, whatever that is, I want to make sure they're getting it. I even had one not too long ago from a from my a resident in South Daytona who thought they lived in Port Orange. And you know, when I so I called

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Mayor Hall to be able to pass that on directly to him. But, I just want to make sure we're having some consistency and I do want to make sure those elected officials are hearing it cuz I know that's a lot of what we hear back in in the in the public. On that note, uh I had staff do a little work cuz I was getting a lot of phone

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calls about the repaving project that's been going on west of I-95. And so, thank you very much, Robin, for getting the information on that. That is a county project. Um, we were able to get the full scope of it. Um, it basically will cover uh Taylor Road from I-95 out

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to about Crane Lakes. Um, and then it will only go south on Williamson to just past the VFW entrance, but then it's going to go north all the way to almost the the base of the bridge. So, there's still a lot of work there. The rain hampered and delayed some stuff. They also had a lot

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of crews that were going out and doing some of the the beforehand work, if you will. The curbs and fixing some sidewalks in some areas and some driveways and things like that. Looks like all that's done, so they should be getting close to just doing the the mass part of the paving. And

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[clears throat] but the work that they've already done looks really good. There is There is a lot of concerns in the infrastructure in that area with the roadway. So, I know the residents are appreciative. So. Just a note on that though, Mr. Mayor, they're all working at night. So. Yes. Perfect. Yep. Be aware. Excellent.

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Um also, just want to say um it is National EMS Appreciation Week, uh May 17th through the 23rd. So, uh thank you to all those that serve in the EMS capacity. Uh and last week was National Law Enforcement Appreciation Week, May 10th

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through the 16th. So, thanks to those folks. And in Incidentally enough, you know, I know we all see, you know, I don't do a lot of social media anymore, but from time to time you'll see things on social media. It's this week and it's this appreciation week and so forth. And And uh I did want to say that I noticed

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that law enforcement gets a week, but firefighters get a month. They [laughter] get a whole thing of September, right, Chief? Like a whole month of September, I think. So, uh we'll we'll be thanking them coming up. They uh they they're always looking to, you know, get that upper level. So, good

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deal. But thank you to all those that serve in the in the public safety capacity and all those roles. We do appreciate you guys. Uh and that's all I've got. So, let's see what the city attorney has tonight. Nothing for you tonight. All right. Mr. City Manager, you got a few things?

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I got a couple on our list. So, for Riverwalk, obviously tonight we did the Tiki Docks license agreement. That That one of the things that we had been told by the brokers and people in the area looking at the overall project is activity down there is good for us. Anytime you could show activity, that Sunday morning thing is an outstanding

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thing. It It originated that the the coffee shop guy had hired somebody to help do events. Peaky Docs is bigger company. They stole the the event person from them, but they have done an outstanding job of drawing energy down there on on Sunday. So, that's the kind of stuff that that when you go to show somebody the site and what its potential

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is, it's making a difference. So, that's a a positive step. Um the people that we've been talking to we we're thinking probably sometime this summer would be when we would bring you whatever the top two or so people are for you guys to consider for potential sale of it. But one of the things that we're hearing

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different when Bristol was in here, uh basically [clears throat] they were going to own the whole thing and have it all be private. And the roads, the seawall, the park, and all that. [snorts] I think that was probably part of the problem they ran into is that they couldn't probably make that work for them. Uh one of the everybody's really been talking to us has asked that question,

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do you have do we have to own the roads? Can would the city be willing to maintain the streets in there as public? They asked questions about potential fine grants for the seawall and how the park would be done. So, what I would expect when we get proposals this time around, it won't be give us the 11

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acres, we're going to make it an entire private development. It's likely that there'll be some questions about infrastructure being shared, some public, some private. And that that would cut We were What we were going to do with Bristol is we were going to get TIF tax tax increment benefits to cut offset the cost of it. I think these guys don't They just want to

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go hell out you cover some of the infrastructure that will be public like what's typical in other downtowns. So, just be aware as that's going forward. Um on stormwater projects, uh the the um coming up in on June 2, we're going to have the contract to start

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demolishing the three properties that we already have acquired, the two at Sugar Forest and the one on Trail Woods. Now that we own them, we've got to get them knocked down in July. Uh in in in about then. So, there'll be a contract on June 2 with the company that we did bids for principally cuz they've got to be able to work under federal requirements. So, it's it's a little bit It's not just

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like some guy to go knock down a house. You've got to follow certain rules to to knock these down under this funding source. So, that's coming forward for activity for those lots. I know it's important that we make sure that those lot We're not going to build Augusta National looking greens on those those properties, but we we need to They're

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going to be in residential areas, so we've also got to make sure that it's okay and fits into the neighborhood without it being a super high level. So, there's a balance in there as we get these lots cleared and move forward. Uh also in stormwater, the the Cambridge bid awards or the bid bids are due May

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29th. So, we expect to bring the whoever is the best bid to you in June. So, the second meeting I think second meeting June would come to you for that. And then, depending on how the award goes, you're looking at late summer start of construction uh for that project. So, we

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we did spend quite a bit of time with people during the bid process. There's some complex questions asked, which is good cuz it's a whole lot better to get it right on the front end and have the bids be good and bring you change orders later in the process. So, a lot of people showed up and had questions about the electric in there dealing with the

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pumps and how everything works. It's You're also dealing with the complexity of working in the FEC right away. And you know, they're they're have almost as much power as anybody railroad companies do. So, you know, they had questions about how do we do this? What what are the rules that are going to apply to us and how do we work in it? So, they were

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They were a lot of good questions to clarify that. Hopefully, that makes the bids better. So, that gets you a better project price and a more accurate project price coming forward. So, it was worth the time to put in to it cuz it's a it's not a simple project. There's going to be some complexity there given the nature of that.

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Uh one of the things the county's doing They brought it up at the round table. They also are the the committee's name is Stormwater Mitigation and Flooding Subcommittee, real long name of that that regional group that does that. So, they've got a meeting coming up at the end of the month. The county's working on a dashboard on their website that

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will track county projects. They're sort of two ways. They're going to look Look the projects and the maintenance. So, what are they building new and how are they maintaining what they own? And they're trying to set it up so that the cities can upload their stuff so you can go to one county site and track regional stormwater. They're going to probably spend most of the summer working with

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this committee trying to make sure they get it the way they want to. Uh but they've been really good at communicating with us. They're already doing a regular newsletter in which we we get to submit stuff to it. So, that's been out for a couple I think it's two or three issues of that have been put out. So, the county's working on communication and where that helps us

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all to to have their their bigger span that gets to more people that way. Will they basically just be able to pull the stuff off of our website? Or will will it be different? Uh they're wanting us to put it there. They're they're they're saying you we don't want to be editorial control. So, you you tell us what you want on it. So, basically our

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all of our information >> [clears throat] >> in the city of Port Orange will be available on our site and on the county site. Correct. Okay. What else you got? Uh the parks [clears throat] bond project. So, this one's not a park bond project but people were were interested in that. The the Buschman disc golf course. So,

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the the signs started going out I think it was last week. They should be completed this week. Is that the [snorts] correct number? Okay. Uh and then they're going [clears throat] to advertise openings so we expect late this week we will advertise the opening of the the golf course. Uh and in tonight you also awarded the contract for start design for Rec West.

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Uh that that one similar kind of components to the the rec we have here but as it goes forward we'll bring updates to council and give you a chance to comment on the plans as it goes forward in the process. It won't just show back up as a finished thing. We'll probably we'll talk to you as we go along. And the trail project. So,

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>> [clears throat] >> Tim has already submitted that to the TPO. It's in a feasibility study for the bigger trails that are part of the bond. Uh but in addition to that the Presbyterian church across the street over here owns a bunch of land to the north side of the church underneath the power line easements. I don't think given their future plans that they want

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to hold on to that. So, they have shown an interest in in letting us acquire it from them. So, you we're in early stages but it's a big piece of land. It's over 10 18 acres of land or so. It's a fairly large piece of land that could work as part of a trailhead or something. So, we've had some preliminary conversations

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with them on that. So, that's that's part of the park spot. That's all I've got. Thank you. Appreciate that information. >> [clears throat] >> Does anybody have any questions for the city manager regarding that stuff? Brings us to item 18, citizen advisory committee for the TPO.

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How are you, sir? Good, how are you? Good, good to see you. Good evening, Bobby Ball with the CAC for the TPO. We had our monthly meeting. It was probably our shortest meeting in a really long time. Uh we didn't have any agenda items and we really just got a couple of drafts for some future items that are coming up

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to us probably next month. So, I don't really have anything to report, but I'll take any questions. Do you have any questions for Bobby? Great report. How's How's our new official doing so far? Doing pretty good. How's our new representative? No complaints. >> [laughter]

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>> Thanks, Bobby. Appreciate you. I'll try harder. All right, and that's going to that's going to bring us to the public hearing portion of the meeting, item 20, second reading of ordinance number 2026-2. It's an ordinance of the city of Port Orange, Volusia County, Florida, relating to comprehensive planning, amending the future land use map of the

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comprehensive plan, amending the future land use designation for approximately 56.53 acres consisting of 52.96 acres from Volusia County agricultural resource, one unit per 10 acres, and 3.57 acres from Volusia County urban low

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intensity, 0 to 4 acre 0 to 4 units per acre, to city of Port Orange rural transition, 0 to 2 units per acre, for property generally located north of Charles Street and west of Airport Road, with text amendment adding a future land use element policy to to provide density limits for the overall

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56.53 acres 56.53 acre property, authorized transmittal to required agencies, providing for conflicting ordinances, severability, and an effective date. Can I get a motion and a second to approve on second reading ordinance number 2026-2?

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I move to approve ordinance number 2026-2. Do I hear a second? Second. I have a motion and a second. Uh Mr. City Manager, on the first reading there were some some uh discussion and changes that uh council had asked for. Can you comment on that for us?

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>> Yeah, the This includes both the large-scale comprehensive plan amendment and the zoning. And the the density limits in both of them don't line up perfectly. They They're There's a the the land use limits were a little different flexibility. And the council members had asked about a way to limit that. And so one of the things that the

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mayor brought up in council agreed to put into the motion was to limit the land use to one unit an acre. That got put in [clears throat] there. That was what got sent forward and transmitted to the state. So that is part of it. It's part of the motion. It's part of the the item. So if you approve this night, you are approving that one unit an acre

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density limit on the land use as well. Thank you. Council, any comments? No? Not yet. Anybody from the public want to speak to this item? Come on up. Welcome. Hi. I'm Jan Albert, Country Circle East,

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Port Orange. Uh appraiser and hydrologist for 54 years. Um I'm kind of surprised that we're not going to the end of the moratorium on this piece because changing the names doesn't change anything. But what I want

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to talk about is um the the one per acre uh density would normally be wonderful, except on this site it isn't suitable enough because it's hydrologically very fragile. And

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you're going to need other things besides just the density change. You're going to need to have uh uh stem wall construction to individual cisterns to dry wells to uh vegetative berms, rain gardens, etc.

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because the way it's drawn you're going to have 25 million gallons going for into the creek with each 4-in rain event. We had eight of those last year, and that's typical without a hurricane, and um

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that is in violation of both chapter 50 and of the Volusia stormwater as well as the uh house bill 403. So, we met this morning with Jane Dye, who is the stormwater manager at Volusia.

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And um the basin study is delayed, which is not a surprise, but the first phase of it is not going to deal with the Meander Point, and it's going to take a long right now they're not even

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they're modeling data from 2021. So, I'm going to tell you what's at the Meander Point, and she actually invited me to send her my own Manning's calculations, which the Manning's coefficient is a function of the im- impedance of the water flow from the

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debris, and there's still 60% of the debris at the main tributary as well as to the south. So, >> [snorts] >> we need to do those elements of design to to get this in compliance. And the reason we need to follow the compliance

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is to avoid multiple flooding events from this. So, even one house on that site, that's what I'm saying. It's not one per acre is sounds great on any other parcel, but this one is very challenging with the Astula soil and how

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it flows into the creek. So, um I think you should wait and uh let them come back with a plan that can actually meet the standards of Volusia Chapter 50 and House Bill 403. Thank you. Thank you, Jan. Thank you. Anybody else want to

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speak to this? Anybody else wish to speak to this item? Come on up. Welcome. Oh, thank you. My name is Gary Singleton. I'm a resident of Tomoka Farms Village. First issue, uh setting aside the 1-year

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moratorium. Uh rules are meaningless unless enforced. Allowing superficial changes to nullify the 1-year moratorium is a perfect example. It demonstrates a blind disregard for both the letter and intent of your own rules. Paytas Homes, Paytas Engineer, Paytas

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Attorney, Vintage Acres. Paytas Homes, Paytas Engineer, Paytas Attorney, Halon Acres. Paytas Homes, Paytas Engineer, Paytas Attorney, fill in the blank acres. Same property, same company, same engineer, same attorney. Putting lipstick on a pig doesn't change

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the fact that it's a pig. The second issue, reducing the number of units is irrelevant when it's management of stormwater that poses the greatest threat to the safety of neighboring properties. Only the implementation of low-impact development methods will enable Paytas to comply with the legal

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requirements to maintain volume and discharge rates at pre-development levels. Today, Jan and I uh met with the Spruce Creek Basin project manager, Jane Dye. We were distressed that phase one was complete, but they were still modeling with data

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2 to 6 years old. Even more distressing was proposed scope of phase two, which appears to not consider the debris from the last five hurricanes at the meander points. This section of Spruce Creek is essential to element of the Spruce Creek

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Basin environmental stormwater system. Whether you accept our expert testimony based on an extensive data files or the legal application of chapter 50 on municipalities, it remains incumbent incumbent incumbent on you to do your due

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diligence so that your actions do not lead to or allow this or any other development to harm surrounding properties. No approval should be given relating to development of properties within the basin until Spruce Creek's current capacity is known. No overall

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development plan should be approved without legally binding guarantees that stormwater runoff will be maintained at pre-development volume and discharge levels. The world will never be a better place if no one is brave enough to do the

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right thing. Thank you. >> Thank you. Thanks. Thank you. Anybody else? Come on up. Welcome. Good evening. Mike Ponitaski Tomoka Farms Village. Thanks for having me tonight. Um you know, we've come a long way with this development from 111 homes to about 49 or 50 homes and I think

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that's a great step forward. Uh looking at the land and you've seen the pictures we showed you of Hurricane Ian in Milton with the cows up to their bellies in water and on that piece of property. Um you know, they're going to have to do drain fill and build on slab construction. We would love for them to incorporate and we're very happy with

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what Paytas is what Paytas is trying to do by reducing the densities, which is nice. Um we need to put in more low-impact development into this project. Being stem walls, cisterns, more water accumulation points, things that keep the water from running off into an

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already corrupted Spruce Creek. And we've already heard that the study is going to be delayed and we're really not going to get good data out of it if they're using data that's 6 years old. So, let's be concerned about people who live in Port Orange, adjacent to that land, and the county folks that live adjacent to that land, and to Spruce

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Creek. Because Spruce Creek, as you know, is where most of the stormwater drains from East Central Volusia County. From Beville Road south, and probably New Smyrna north, and every point in between drains into Spruce Creek. And we've seen

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what happens, not necessarily with hurricanes, but with 4 and 6-in rainstorms. And we've had a couple just not too recently ago that uh flooded some roads. Um thank goodness this year uh we're supposed to have a lower below average hurricane season, so we may not see some big storms. So, this

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will be the test. If we don't have big storms this year, we we will have our typical thunderstorms that'll give us 4 to 6 in of rain over a 3-to-4-hour period, and will really test what Spruce Creek can handle, what the roads do, um and hopefully we can get you guys to

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work with staff and Paytas Construction to put more low-impact development features into this development, and make it a test. May cost a little more money, but it's something good for the community. Um you know, this is a collaboration, and we've come a long way since about 8 months ago when it was a

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big big development, and we had a room full of folks here, and you guys really changed your mind, and you listened, and you listened to what we had to say, and you did your own research. We appreciate that. Um so, I think moving forward it needs to be a collaboration again with the city, the staff, the residents, and

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the developer to really put in some nice low-impact development in there. Hopefully we can wait for the study, but I don't think that's going to work because we're not going to get good data out of it anyway in phase one. But, thanks for listening. I appreciate it. You guys are doing a great job, and uh carry on. Thanks. Thank you, sir. Thank you, Mike. Anybody else wish to speak on

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this project? All right, back to council, then. Council, any other comments? No. We We hashed the heck out of this thing last time. It's just tough, man. Um Just I'm I'm going to open up real quick, just cuz it's very plain speak to

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me. Um It's such a tough spot to be in our chairs. How do we look at somebody that is wanting to invest in our city who has come forward and compromised a lot and say, "Hey, thanks for the steak, thanks for the eggs, or thanks thanks

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for the potatoes and the veggies, but we need you to throw in dessert, too." And we've seen a lot of things come forward where they may or may not have been right the right fit. I I can't think in my time on council, albeit short 5 years, when someone has come forward and made this

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many concessions. My My home flooded twice in Sleepy Hollow. All right, that is not a fun experience. And, you know, I Roads flooding is one thing, right? A lot of people don't realize, especially in older Port Orange, we did not have the drainage system, we did not have the

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data that we have today to know what we needed back then. And so, the the idea was road holds the water, water eventually makes its way out. We've learned so much from there. Um It It's just a really tough spot because on one hand, when my house flooded

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twice, I never wanted to see another 2x4 go up ever. Like, that's how I felt in the heat of the moment, but then I sit here and I see someone who is really trying to do the best they can with the property they're doing. And, you know, how do I tell a developer

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a a landowner whether it be someone who owns a a third of an acre in a neighborhood or whether it be someone who owns, you know, what I'm looking at here, 50 56.53 56.53 acres. You know, it's It is just such a tough spot. I don't want you guys to sit here

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and think it's that it's it comes easy to just say, "Hey, yes, yes." Because if it was, would have rejected in the first place. I still have I I've still been very, very 51/49 on this because I still felt like

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the right thing to do was to make them wait the whole year, but overall, I think we have to admit and have to acknowledge that there's been a great deal of work done on the other side to try to do the right thing here while still also proceeding with their plans.

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And so, again, that comes from the heart of somebody who understands what it is like to be the neighbor and and to be to be the one on the wrong side of things, right? So, I I just wanted to speak my peace on that. I hope you guys understand what I what I mean

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when I say that. Anything else? No. Done? My only comment is is that the the this is not the same project that we started with. And so, it's not even remotely the same project, not even

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close in density or scope or any of that. So, you know, with we've had some comments about, "Well, they have to wait a whole year." Well, no, they don't. The project has that amount of significant difference, the ordinance allows for the applicant to bring us back a different project. So, that is the the case, and

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that's what's happened here. So, clerk, call the roll. Councilman Foley. No. Councilman Gaffney. Yes. Councilman Green. Yes. Vice Mayor Grubbs. Yes. Mayor Sullivan. Yes, 4-1. Item 21, reading of or second reading of

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ordinance number 2026-3. This ordinance is the same ordinance of Volusia County, Florida, rezoning approximately 56.53 acres consisting of 52.96 acres from Volusia County A-1 prime agriculture and 3.57 acres from Volusia County A-2 rural agriculture to

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the city of Port Orange R-20SF single-family residential for property generally located north of Charles Street and west of Airport Road, authorizing revision of the official zoning atlas, providing for conflicting ordinances, severability, and effective date. Can I get a motion to approve on second

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reading ordinance number 2026-3? Second. [clears throat] Move to approve ordinance number 2026-3. Second. I have a motion and a second. Council, any comments? I'll just make the same I'm I'm just going to make one small comment here is while I I I do think the mayor is right,

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there's been a great deal of change. Um I still don't like the optics and I've learned from some of my predecessors that have sat up here, you know, oftentimes perception is reality. And my conviction lies in in the one-year waiting period. Um and and that is the sole reason

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for my vote being what it was and what it will be for this. I do think I should uh state that. And I can appreciate that. And I And I would just say that optics are difficult. Very. But our job is to

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not be swayed by optics. Our job is to look at the material, the facts, the application, ordinance, and all those things and understand that we have to govern by those rules and standards and

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past practices and all those different kinds of things. Um but but and there are times when clearly, you know, uh optics and the community input and the contact and all those things are are very meritorious and and are part of it. So Well, and and and it's it's

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absolutely factual for me. It's It's It's still It's still the belief that one year would have been the right thing to do. And that's just where things lie for me. That's all. That's good. I I meant to ask Mr. City Manager, do you have anything you wanted to add to this particular item? Nothing on this one.

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I'm sorry. Good. Chase, anything? Comment on this one? Yeah. Good. Um in in reference to waiting a whole year, um I kind of want to know if if staff can help me the history of that kind of uh

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that rule. As far as I understand it, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, when that when that was uh put into play when Port Orange was developing rapidly, which we have seen a complete slowdown in development in this

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community from 2000, I'd say 1996 on, it was, you know, Waters Edge was being developed, Sanctuary, um Ashton Lakes, all that stuff was coming, and I think that that rule was in place for that

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those that era. And And that era is gone. We We don't have in the city of Port Orange a lot going on when it comes to development. We We don't have the land. We annexed in this property knowing

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darn well that there was going to be development there. And I like the product now. Uh you know, I'm I'm glad you didn't wait a year and come back with another 113 when we had that tough discussion. I'm glad we're back to 50. I think it was a a smart move. I think it's what people want, too. I think you're going to have no problem selling

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them. I certainly like to be on an acre. I know a lot of other people would like to be on one as well out in that area, in that rural area. So, it's it's a win-win for the city, but I back to that waiting period, I I believe that was in place,

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and correct me if I'm wrong, back in the heyday when we were just I mean, they were knocking our doors down to build in this city. And if something wasn't right, you didn't have enough time cuz we had another one in line. And I remember many times being in this room where it was one development after

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another. So, we're not in that position where we have to wait. Now, the the water study, and I see the sign wait for the Spruce Creek water basin study. So, not a whole lot's changed since the last one was done out there.

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If you There's a study, you can go find it. It's in Volusia County's records, and I read it. It's about an 86-page study, and I sent it to every one of you guys to look at. And not a lot's changed, but it it did educate me on where the water's coming from. And it's not going It's not really coming from the east headed west. It's

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from the west coming east into the creek 2 and 1/2 ft above sea level from 48 ft out west near the uh the jail. The water's coming, and it's not from development. It's from Mother Nature bringing it this way, and it just heads It just heads to that inlet, and

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it gets to the creek. And the creek creek flooded big time. But I don't think it was naturally from runoff. It was from storm surge. And when you look at studies like that, it's storm surge that causes most of the flooding. In modern-day development, everything

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west of 95, not much of it flooded. There were a few homes in certain aspects, but that was due to the large amounts of rain in short period of time. But overall, when we have 4 to 6 in of rain, we don't have any flooding problems. We might have water in the streets, but that's where it belongs. And then it's gone within the next day.

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So, I've very much looked at this. I've looked at prior studies. Um I've been in the business of real estate for 30 years and insurance for 12. I've looked at every angle, and I feel very, very comfortable and very thankful that we have a development with just 50 homes going out there to keep that rural feel

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to it, which is a lot less than what's across the street at Water's Edge. I couldn't stand it when they developed that neighborhood. But it's there. And I lived there at one time. So, I just wanted to say that's kind of why I'm okay with this now. And I understand where you're coming from. >> Well, and I and I hope what I'm saying

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is it doesn't come across as as rebuking what you guys are are going with here. As I said, it it was very It's very much a coin flip for me. Um I could land on your side, and I did in the first reading, and I really been thinking about this a lot knowing it was coming back to us. It is no disrespect. As I

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said, we have a developer who has made an amazing amount of concessions and who has become a great partner, and we should value you On on the same side, I have run into this conviction that I we have that in place. If we don't want that in place, then we need to adopt a

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different ordinance and change that policy. But I don't want I can't vote on what I think the policy should be. I have to vote on what I think the policy is now. >> Yeah, I apologize, guys. >> And I'll stop. Yeah, sorry. I apologize. I have a rule here and I can't let us get off the actual agenda items. >> Yes, sir. And I couple of times I think

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the city attorney is kind of glared down at me like, "You're way off the agenda item." So, I got to I got to bring that back in. >> Yes, sir. Any comments specific to the motion on the floor and the agenda item? Those are all great points and we can have further discussions on those in another time, but any specific comments to the agenda item that's been motioned

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to? I'm good. No. Anybody in the public wish to have further comment? Okay. Come on. And it's a segue to what Mr. Gebhardt said about um Storm water, where's it coming from? And if I'm off topic, you can just tell me and I'll come at it at a different time. So, I live out in Farm Village.

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I've been there 40 years. And behind us Port Orange has developed tenfold since we moved in our home back in 1986. Um and we never had flooding. We never had standing water out there regardless of hurricanes, tropical storms, 7-8 and trains.

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Until Port Orange built their two huge water reclaimed water plant or ponds directly west of my home. And we have the data. During storms like Ian and Milton, the city of Port Orange pumped over 20 million gallons of storm water to those ponds every day. I've got

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the data. And that water outflowed to Spruce Creek and to our village cuz we've modeled it. We've got drone footage. We followed the water from the outflow of your ponds. And that's the water that because of development

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floods our homes. And we have that data and we have that footage. So, when we're told that the water comes from way out west, yeah, it's west. It's just about 10 miles west of us. From for for our homes, the water that comes from your reclaimed water ponds, the 75-acre and

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100-acre pond, and you just built the berm up on one of them because you knew you needed more capacity there. That water is still overflowing into our neighborhoods. And I'd invite you to come out and I'll walk you out there and show you where the water's actually coming from. And it is coming

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from the water that Port Orange is pumping out to its reclaimed water ponds because you guys don't have the capacity to hold it in the town anymore in the city anymore because you've developed the property and that water flows somewhere else into your storm drain system, it floods to your water

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processing plant, and it's pumped west and sometimes I guess it's pumped into the river. But we've got the data, we get it from the state every month. And we can show you the facts, figures, numbers, dates, times, all that good stuff. And I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I just want to tell you that we are actually getting water from the city

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coming into our homes in the Smoke Farms Village, and we have for about 12 years now. So, I'll be happy to meet with you out there and show you that. Um just point of fact. Thank you very much. Mr. Lord, we before anybody replies to any of that, there there's a pending

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action that that we've got a notice for a complaint coming in on that specific issue. I'm I'm requesting that nobody respond on that issue, and I would tell you I would advise against going out and doing any site visit at this point under

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these circumstances. Thank you. Anybody else to comment on this specific agenda item? Welcome. Thank you. My name is John Gerchak. I live on Country Circle Drive East.

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I'm a Vietnam veteran. And when I was in the army, if they said to be somewhere at 0800. You be there at 0800." That was the rules. Now, your rules were 1-year moratorium

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on this. And you said it was good for the city. Well, what about the rest of us? The rest of us on that whole block on Country Circle Drive East flooded,

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including me. And I think you're doing the wrong thing by approving this. And it's hard to take from the military cuz I wanted to leave the city

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as a Vietnam veteran to the country. And now I'm being surrounded by urban settings. And I don't like it. I've been at my home almost 50 years on Country Circle Drive East.

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And it was not fun being flooded. We were out of power because of the floods. Our power transformer went under water. So, that that is my opinion that it should have been on the 1-year moratorium. You don't change the rules like they

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told me to be there at 1 at 0800 because you might not make it. You just might not make it. Thank you very much. Thank you for your service, sir. Anyone else wish to speak? >> [applause]

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>> I'll get you next. Go ahead, Robert. Mayor, council members, I Ryan Higgins, Fort Orange. Um since I've lived here, um to my knowledge, the Spruce Creek has been an impaired

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waterway the whole time. It's been identified that way. And um part of the requirement is that there be a basin management plan available to study that. And now it's been years and years, and it's still not done.

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Uh so, I think it's time to say "Stop." Let's Let's understand what's really going on. So, um Yeah, so I I think you should turn this down. Thank you very much. Thanks, Robert.

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>> [clears throat] >> Welcome. How you doing? Good. Ready to answer. It's hard to believe that Name, please. Matt Druce, just so It's hard to believe that the way of life depends on four people, how you vote up here.

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Out of four people, this council, four of you want to change everybody's life out there. Ruin a way of life. Nobody out there wants that. You know that. And the people that want it out there are just going to be the one lining their pockets. They're getting paid. But

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you know, take a way of life from everybody out there. So, we got to sit sit at home and just be all right with the judgment of four you guys that vote yes on this, and nobody else gets to say in it. So, that's a tough pill to swallow.

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So, it's I just can't believe you see all these people that don't want this, and you all still just think it's all right. And for you to say that water comes from the west, it comes from the east, too. So,

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I want to get your facts straight before you start saying stuff like that. Anybody else have any comments? All right. Back to Back to council. Council, any other comments? Good. Clerk, call the roll. Councilman Foley? No. Councilman

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Gilbert? Yes. Councilman Green? Yes. >> Vice Mayor Grubbs? No. Mayor Stahlnaker? Yes. 3-2. All right. Council committee reports. Item 22, First Step Shelter. Councilman Sean Gilbert. First Step Shelter is um

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in search of a new executive director, and uh the nice thing about that search process, it's uh made up of volunteers that provided us the first director, and was with us for over 5 years, and they've done a phenomenal job out there housing over a thousand people.

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So, uh that's the latest news there that I can share with you. All right. How about Port Huron South Eastern Michigan Chamber of Commerce? >> Yes. Port Huron South Eastern Michigan Chamber of Commerce. I got some notes here from our executive director today there,

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and uh just give me one moment. Um they're doing fantastic. They've had um I know the information if I'm looking. Uh they have uh 50 new members since January 1st. They had their uh one of their biggest fundraisers was uh the Taste of Port Huron. They had over

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22 restaurants, over 160 people attended. So, that was one of fantastic turnout. Weather was perfect, and uh a lot of new faces there. Uh today they had their new member reception. They had eight new members join today and share their story. So, a

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lot of good things are happening. Um they've added a new staff person there to help them with events. So, they're fully staffed. They got a great executive director, and our former mayor understands our city, and uh I think they're doing a really good job. Hey, they have I don't know that I've ever

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seen the amount of new membership sign up in such a short relatively short period of time that we've seen since Don's been there. I mean, he's really he's really doing a great job, which I know is a bloodline to the organization to begin with. So, that's great. Art House, Vice Mayor Tracy

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Gross. So, their biggest fundraiser, the Fun and Funky event was uh last week. We had uh honoring Buddy Davenport. Uh it was a phenomenal event.

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They're How would you say they're recovering from the event? Uh fundraising was huge. We'll have the numbers here at the next committee report meeting how that turned out. Um but one of the big things is to understand is when that event goes on,

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it actually pays for kids' scholarships. Um and the summer program is just amazing what these kids get chances to do. There's only a handful of spots left. They're almost completely full. So, if anybody's interested for summer camp programs for the kids, it's it's a

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phenomenal place to take them. That's it. All right. Anybody else got anything to come before us tonight? Yes, sir. All right. Have a good evening.