actually [Music] quiet everybody it's not hard to win i'd like to call to order 2025 U resiliency and restoration
committee meeting for Monday April 14th uh if everyone could stand and please state the uh pledge of allegiance please i pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands
one indivisible with liberty and justice for all actually can take the attendance please chairman Carl Rock present vice Chairman Chris Leeds present member Daryl Rose here member Linda Rodriguez let the
record show that member Linda Rodriguez is absent from today's meeting member Ron Pedova let the record show that member Ron Padova is also absent from today's meeting member Deon Aaron let the record show that member Devin Aaron is also absent from today's
meeting and welcoming member Robert Hubard present present okay yes good deal so we have we have Mr i would like to make a correction there
bob Hubard replaced No no if she were to attend today she would still be able to be part of this committee because I thought we recommended and voted on that at the last meeting no based on Yeah all right based on what the lawyer said she is welcome to attend today's meeting if
not yeah Hubard gets to take part cool okay so uh do we have the minutes from the last meeting and uh do I have a motion to approve
motion to approve the minutes from last meeting have a second second all in favor of approving i done okay um moving on uh we the last couple meetings we've done a lot of uh work
around uh elevations and and whatnot and I thought I was feeling a little frustration as far as progress so I thought uh maybe kind of resetting a little bit and kind of giving a baseline for everyone might be helpful uh and
then we can get into uh you know the task at hand and our probably one thing that's furthest along is Sunset Boulevard as far as those elevations so uh I did a couple of
things to what I thought may be helpful uh for us looking at the city and um Ashley could you put up the the first uh schematic so that one there okay so in
conversations with the as we were going through our past meetings we tended to be looking at the full nut of the city and I thought it may be easier for us to think about things maybe in in components uh it would
accomplish a couple of things uh it would help us focus more in on specifics in those areas i understand that they this breakout here is somewhat reflective of our drainage basins of the city to the mo for the most part so what
we have is uh south of the river and west of 19 we have north of the river and west of 19 we have east of 19 and north of ridge and then we have south of
ridge and east of 19 so just to kind of help us break down our efforts uh and maybe be a little more focused but also making sure that we're giving attention to the different areas of the city not just one so does
this pass the sniff test so that's the question to you guys yes does that make sense okay um so with that the other thing I
did was can we go on to the next okay so what kind of got this committee going I think to some extent is when we talked with council as far as sea level rise that we've seen to date in the various
areas of our city from when they were developed so the south side of the river started getting developed in the 1920s uh things like Harbor Point wasn't until like the 1990s so we have a a myriad of how the city was developed so what we
shared with the council at that time was this schematic that shows when the development took place and an estimate of how sea level has changed since that development occurred so for example if you look at uh Harbor
Isles there which is off of Miller's Bayou it says uh since 1968 so from 1968 there was about 5.8 in of seawater sea level rise that was what we shared with the county with the
council that was based on St petersburg which at that time was kind of the bell weather for the region as far as where to look because they had the oldest records in place so since this
information 2019 I thought maybe looking at it again because now the Tampa Bay region has gotten more focused on this they've got uh they've had a group of science types
say here's the basis that we want to look at at St petersburg but also what the rates were and generally speaking that the rates of seawater uh increase have been increasing during the 20th century and they're increasing
faster in the 21st century so each of the communities have been recommended by Tampa Bay Regional Planning Council to take a look at what it means to you in your situation so uh Clearwater did a lot of
work in 19 excuse me 2018 to 2020 time frame and as you move north along the coast it's not the same as Tampa Bay estuary things are tend to be
more so Clearwater has a higher rate than what St petersburg has based on factual measurements that Clearwater did versus on the historical data of St pete so with that actually if you go to the next page
so recognize remember that 5.8 uh there so if you look at this is updated and this takes us to like 2024 and if you look at Harbor Isles 1968 instead of that 58 in reality we're at
like 9.3 in since 1968 based on the clear water metrics so the increase from what we shared with council several years ago has changed anywhere from about 0.9 to 3
and a half inches so and then to harmonize with the rate projections that Clearwater is talking about 2025 to 24 to 2040 an increase of about 6 in and then out to
2070 about 17 and as the committee had discussed we were going to use 2070 intermediate high change as our bell weather so what I wanted to kind of do
was reset everybody as far as the best guess on what we're potentially looking at and the reason why I did this was we were talking about roads and such so if we had this basis we at least know what
the playing field looks like does that make sense to the members okay so any questions i know this is new so I
apologize but well know I I looked at scientific data i don't have it with me of course I brought with me but um we're talking about sea level rise and there hasn't been any since 2006 it shows here 2000 to
2024 it shows that the yearly change is nothing when 4.38 and 25 years later it's still 4.38 but now they're projecting it's going to double in six years how is that it goes back into at least
This is what the experts are saying it's going to be going faster okay how fast is open to debate well how fast is the true scientists that have studied sea level and the the chilis and all around the world Australia Africa United every
first of all it's not going to be higher in St petersburg and not in Clear Water or higher in clear water than is in St pete it's going to be the same uh so the studies why the studies vary because they measure from the ground where the ground settles like in Italy they show one of the sea levels they found the sea levels rising in Italy but then after
the scientists went and tested it sea level didn't rise at all the ground was settled the building so the true scientists most of the ones that I've all the ones that I've studied said 2006 sea levels haven't risen at
all anywhere around the globe sometimes they expand a little bit to heat but they don't have any expansion as far as it rising significantly and notice and there's a lot of questions of why people ask well why is it not rising in my backyard why is it the same i still got
the same low tide i still have the same high tide I've had in 40 years well because it hasn't been that's why so if you have I'm my main concern is you know protecting our shorelines to storms because we definitely have sea
water rise when hurricanes come and winds can blow the wind the waters up and that's more of a concern and that's something we should address but as far as it the actual sea levels rising i've seen all the scientific data i've studied it for years and there isn't any since
2006 i don't project it to happen even if the is this there's no where is it going to come from i would encourage you to take a look at the Noah data associated with clear i've looked at it from 73 i've looked at it
and the trend shows that very very little is what they're showing but still Okay yeah um but like I said here you got study what actually they show here 2000 4.3 8 millimeters they've shown a 22
millimeter rise uh in the chili it was over a course of like 35 years or something like that and their studies are they continued the studies and after 2006 they showed no sea rise anywhere on the globe uh this
these scientists and they give the the data to know it too um this information is from the Tampa Bay Climate Advisory Panel okay so they're the local proportioned experts that Tampa Bay Regional Planning Council
is utilizing okay so if we're not if if we're in line using this great if we're not then okay well I just wanted to put a stake in the There's a lot of lines out there you want to use those and that's fine well I just the committee my main concern is when you have sea level
rise to storms okay and and you address that then you won't have any issues with that either i just think you need to address it according to storms okay okay but you're talking about raising Sunset Boulevard or Well that was part of the reason to do this to say okay if we're
going to do something with Sunset because right now our low is at about a plus 2.85 NABD right so the question that we were debating was well how high can we go without adversely impacting
storm water runoff and what do we need to do if we're saying make an investment we're telling the city to make an investment of I don't remember what the city manager said is a cost per linear run of road and drainage right to make a recommendation we want to make sure it's
high enough so we're not getting flooded in five years yeah if you're trapping water you're looking at a huge expense so if we make any recommendations that make sure it had a it passed the swift test so so the purpose of elevating road
is for people to get out during storm drain or what is it for this to have people can drive down the road when the elevate because you you're going to elevate the houses too or the conversations we've had is uh date was to look at egress and ingress from uh
the storm evacuation standpoint or for first responders uh if required so okay having either making recommendations on we need different um vehicles to get in or we need to do something with the roads so they can access but there was
some minimal level of a solution that felt obligated to push forward to council and and so just trying to find a little ground here we we would also have
whether it's from settling or rising water right we have roadways that just under combination of a high tide and a moderately heavy rain we have areas that flood now oh that's real bad so in addressing it regardless
of whether you think it's rising sea levels or some combination of settling and maybe porting 50 years ago and 40 years ago or whatever it was I think we've got a combination of preparing for storms and addressing some immediate
needs we've got right now that appear to be getting worse in some places right yeah so the the raising of the roads would only be for access for vehicles right that's that's the only reason you would raise the road otherwise you're going to have to raise all the houses around it
so and then you're going to have to put a wall up you have to put a seaw wall up because if you leave the seaw wall as it is you raise the roads you raise the houses well now everything's just going to wash out so the for sunset for example the to do a short-term fix before you do the
lock is make that seaw wall bigger and make those people that have because it all comes up those uh man-made little boat ramps that they have made they're already they're at ground level with the
road and so when high tide comes up it's already I mean low tide it's already halfway up that ramp so when you get two foot of the high tide come in that's how the water ends up being on the road so and honestly I don't even think a lot of those people even use those boat ramps
because they have docks right so you got to close those in that'll help Sunset from flooding in in most parts and same with the marina it comes up their gate i was out there with uh Derek the other day and I was showing him that this is where it floods at where David where
Davis and uh Chaz I'm sorry Chazco is that that gate that's right there that uh at the marina that's where the water comes up and that's how that area floods right there down the way down Sunset kind of where Pat Rogers is it comes over the
seaw wall a little bit and it comes up the little man-made boat ramps so start would be getting rid of those boat ramps because they all have docks so those boat ramps probably been there since the 50s the boat ramps if they're some more
problematic than others and some of them are just broke off they're janked they're ragged like they're not Yeah they're not or they could owners if they own the private property have the option of raising their property and improving their boat ramp so that it doesn't flood
that if that's the option that they have on the problematic boat ramps I suppose because their docks don't flood that their boats sit on so it doesn't get that high it's the it's everything else that comes in and if you worked on storm
drains over there recently a lot of good work over there actually and you've got problems with it flooding down Davis Street over by Limestone too sometimes yeah and you raise the seaw wall and raise the road and raise all that around the river is still going the water still
get back in there usually yeah so because all of our drains that everything from Davis that map that I had everything from Davis Chaz everything floods to the to the river and well when you're inverts are almost at
negative at the negative tide part it's there's nowhere for the water to even go when tide comes up it floods the storm pipes rains there's nowhere for the water to go until low tide comes and sucks all the water back that's first week here when I talked the first thing I brought up was storm drain lift
stations not just there but over by Washington Street too the only thing is that we have to find a place to pump it to we have nowhere to pump it if the tide's high it won't go out exactly so you're going to have to wait for low tide anyways just like how our city drains
right now on low tide everything will drain on low tide but when it rains majority of the time it rains and it's already high tide as it is so I mean the the problem I see it looks like limestone area and some water was built
kind of like on swamp land it was very low it's and it's all very low over there and uh elevating the road and the seaw walls and all the ground like I said around the river you're still going to have water get in there at high tide is
going to get in there somehow exactly um how do you how do you mean a lot of the storm you're going to have to reverse and flow somewhere else and not to the river well that kind of goes back to our conversation do we tell everybody to get
high lift vehicles or do we do something else and um you know the the road piece was the the something else so what is the the
the viable path uh on that um you know mean sea level is at about uh 1.6 something feet here in Pithich River yeah so that's uh when you look at our
low points on sunset at 2.85 85 that means that we have a high tide and maybe a little wind blowing and that's why that floods and the last couple years
the tides generally have been running higher than average on average uh from what I see not counting the storm to your point um so
um what I thought is you know we talked about levies we've talked about uh closing off those access points or mandating that potentially uh to anyone that has one to provide some protection
that way but we haven't gone forward with any of those types of recommendations but if that's something that we should push forward we can certainly do that those full moon super moon tides so
so tomorrow at 2:36 if nobody's seen sunset during a high tide I encourage you guys to go over there and look at it so keep your car away just go down just go down Chazco till you see the water then just back out you
don't have to drive down Sunset you can see it from the water i've seen it yeah I see that's why we had to put signs up that says I've been going out this river since 83 and it's been a problem ever since I've been here it's Does it seem worse now in some areas it does i mean today and
tomorrow we're about four feet so yeah well that's kind what when we were looking at this I looked at the elevations along Sunset and if you look at that 2.85 85 to be able to deal with it for maybe the next 15 years consuming assuming a
high tide and maybe one event you needed like a plus five so that involved raising it up two plus feet there at the belly all right and in order to get your grades and looking at home elevations
and all of that kind of stuff uh what kind of cost is associated with that is that something we want to do that's an enormous cost that's New Orleans is built below sea level so that was part what led into our conversation perhaps because we have the federal channel we
should be talking to the Army Corps about levies which there are no levies in Pasco County or on the West Coast right now but maybe that's a conversation that we should begin having don't know well they got huge water pumps and they got leveies and that's
what protects that city just see what they're we don't have to have that scale but something like that is what you'd be looking at so that's the part that if that's something that we think is viable that we want to move forward so be it but I was trying to
just take a a micro look here to see what are we really talking about uh and it looked more complicated and difficult than I hoped for uh Ashley can you go there's a map there of sunset
is it further down yeah right there so I don't know if you can see that but um those elevations there uh were intended to be able to address those high tides and also buy us out to
15 years okay so from 2.85 to 4.5 is a lot in my opinion mhm okay to change the landscape there is that something that's even reasonable to consider which is part of the reason I just threw a stake in the ground for us
to talk about one thing too I I I stare at at all sorts of areas of the city on the property appraiser site and I'll I'll tell you I'm not sure how this even works because a lot of these a lot of the roads and everything even on Pier
it's like private property technically so I'm not even sure yeah it goes all the way down to the middle of the river yeah but I mean like from the I mean even even where the road is that's like technically part of people's property i'm not even sure how that works as far
as you know raising it and stuff because that's it's a lot of it's a lot it's a lot there's a lot a lot it's a lot of you know what I mean i mean you're messing with people's you're messing with people's property technically even though it's I guess a rightaway would it
be um technically um but uh Well that was part of the reason to where it kind of Yeah that's still a lot to to deal with you know that's a lot of regular road to be Well a lot of these people want us to do something well so this is
the this is the ramp I was talking about right here right sure it comes floods down this way floods this way to about here also floods around this area and floods down up in here those are the spots that sunset off during high
tide so to kind of move us towards where we were going what kind of things do we think are viable to address this because like I said I threw a dart there to have something to talk to that seem unreasonable i'm cool with that uh but
you know what are the solutions to Bob's point because the community is looking for answers and this seemed to be one of the most uh problematic areas on a routine basis um
do we go to the Army Corps and say "Hey we need a study here to look at levies and how do we protect federal channel?" And I would start that right away so I mean we can't pay for it i'll guarantee you that there's so much water
too coming from you know I've been staring at these maps you know at night and uh there's so much water just coming off you know from from Pasco County into our area and just you know and just clogging up our canal whether it's
dredging going down or lifting our our stuff up it's just you know we really do need help from you know the bigger municipalities we just don't have the money here obviously you know u but like levies or something that's you know like you see what they're doing in Japan now
they're just saying "All right we're done we're going to put up these like I don't know if you saw that these like 30 foot concrete walls i love it i think it's great you know but but um and and actually where we are because we have
the gulf and the and the um and the uh and the limestone shelf is there and it's solid you can actually you know put peers down and build up top of it could actually build like a giant wall out there to protect because because we
really need to protect I mean so much property inland and you know even if you get like a mini tsunami or something like that we've never had that in you know our lifetime or anything but you get like a 100 foot wall of water I mean gez Louise you know there's nothing to
protect against that I mean you know we all don't take that serious but that's like a serious phenomena that can happen and um it would just devastate the entire area the problem is is something like that would spring everybody in action it's just nobody ever wants to
spend money preemptively is the issue it's hard to sell that pitch that well I think that's our task is what can we be preemptive on in a reasonable way are there things that we can recommend if this was recommendation or
recommendation is what we really need to do because we don't know is let's make a recommendation to reach out to the resources at Army Corps potentially do a study of what we can do to protect the
federal waterway and the city given sea level changes that are occurring and storms arms as well um because we don't have the wherewithal to develop an answer well look at all your all your data i mean
really uh 3 4 feet is elevation around the river all around that whole area all the way down past America Marina everything would probably solve your problem with water pumps problem is you got houses but if you had
water pumps then if the water did get in you could pump it out and the levies on the road that area would keep it out at least during the tide surge i mean the other part that's certainly on the table is that we're not going to do anything and we're just going to plan to do
retreat if that's the strategy okay but you know what we just need to think about the consequences of our decisions and I would I would like said reach out to Army Corps Engineers and explain to them our situation and see what they
will do for us okay got a motion would that be Darl would do that or let's talk about that to a degree direction from Matt darl oh yeah i'd have to get the direction from Matt no you don't have to you're on the committee what do you think um we should
at least get a study done correct that we should at least do that because I mean what's it gonna hurt okay Chris agreed yeah a study for the Army Corps to maybe do something with the findings that we
or have them assess i want to change your motion no i make a motion to reach out to Army Corps Engineers to get a study done on our lowland areas and protecting the coast
second all in favor i take it progress uh what we'll do is with that motion we'll recommend it to council uh and as a formal recommendation from
the committee and uh Ashley's got it on black and white now so we'll transmit that to council at the next session m Mr chair if there's any way that I can have somebody else address that motion or remake the motion just in the event um
based on this situation right now with Linda's seat if somebody else could make the motion he's more than welcome to second click okay make a motion we reach out the Army Corps of Engineers request to study how to address our lowlying areas at federal champs
i'll say all in favor hi hi i just wanted to bring to attention that member Deon Aaron is present from today's meeting you guys were in an extensive conversation i didn't want to interrupt so for the record member Deon is present the boss thank you that's what we count
on to keep us uh straight on this okay so for this piece we can kind of set this aside as far as sunset goes right now because this is the approach that we believe is the viable
steps forward i still think we should have storm water uh lift stations but that's another kind of part of saying another isn't like pumping it yeah somewhere
One of the things that we talked about was how do we get areas where we can do that stage i had uh I went to the EMC uh open house this weekend and spoke with uh
SwiftMUD and uh Tampa Bay Water as far as getting with their people that have expertise in either storm water retention uh to capture water and hold it and
maybe do some things to help our saltwater encourage ion on our wells and pulled back water flowing into the Gulf through uh culverts and stuff during high water events and extending that i used to
think a couple of miles but actually having the county change the rules to look at storm water from an enclosed basin standpoint rather than an open basin standpoint which translates to about 3 ines of rainwater in 24 hours
may not be enough but it's at least a starting point for discussion um so that changes the development rules along the coast that maybe gives us a little bit more of a buffer uh from rainwater type situations and in maybe storm situations
if it's dry we can use it for the storm water pumping but uh I have not heard back from either one of those since that was just this weekend okay but uh just FYI okay this move faster than I
thought and she's gone yeah somebody okay can you see if her mouse is movable see what's next on the uh her mouse is movable she really Yeah check her mouse all right uh just as a
sidebar I did pick up the uh the latest Army Corps survey from 24 of the federal channel if anyone's interesting I have interested i have a copy you wanted me to That's okay just trying to go on and
where do you go just uh move past this because this was the hang on that one because I want to fuss at uh Darl a little bit um that 3.5 or 3.8 there oh yeah um I am not
drinking the Kool-Aid on that one and the right there at the intersection of Old Post and U and Bay that's actually the high point there and the bottom of the swailes the swailes don't extend what's
what's not what's where's the cool yeah everything comes like this and flows this way right i'm just But those elevations are the manholes right yeah so and they're room elevation yeah and I'm not drinking that Kool-Aid on that 3.6 there's no way excuse
[Music] me there's no way this is a foot higher than that not buying it i think some Thumpson's busted there swailes don't extend this far the swailes are past the entrance here the first entrance uh
that's where the swailes start now the swale numbers may be okay but the bellies here I don't see one of these manholes uh so I didn't know if some of these may be off to the side there's actually a low manhole there that is um
I think that's sanitary not storm um but that is the high point for that whole area and I can't see it being 3.6 feet there yeah because the water we close off the road we close it off here
and the water is in this way but all it all drains this way this way to the Gulf to where the 70 is yes all it drains that way right but the water cues up here the water comes in goes like that and straight down the old post and then
drains out that way so it comes in here the invert here comes in goes up fills this ditch right fills that ditch does not fill this ditch then when the low tide comes all comes
out here there's one here where everything comes this way and out to that yes right but the the road part is what uh egress was what I was looking at okay not having this road closed was a
potential improvement that we could move forward probably needing to do that sooner versus later uh I'm okay writing off sunset because we've got a path forward here but this part here impacts the apartments sand
pebble and basically we're funling everybody down old post which outside of Grand Boulevard has no easy escape route so minimally having that for late departers is a concern personally so I
think and I believe we have some monies planned for Bay Boulevard for improvements so whatever improvements we make other than just doing a uh take off the uh asphalt and put it back I don't
know if that's a pr prudent expenditure right the the only thing Bay is the just the milling uh resurface right was also involved in that the whole Bay Boulevard half million that's all we've got going on and they're redoing the base I believe at that intersection right it's
but it's the the area that we lose with water that if I spend a half a million dollars or a quarter of a million dollars and I don't address that to me I'm not being as prudent as I would like to be myself
i'm just wondering if we can incorporate something into that as well i know versus coming in after we've done the repaving and then hey we've got this great idea well I think the the rationale that Matt
had with it was we were some 10 15 years off from be able to do something there and so the road is in such a bad shape that they're going to go ahead and reill service it with the intent that later on down the line we do something there i don't know if they can do anything now without certain amount of engineering
and whatnot yeah so that's so that right there is that manhole that end and then what do you see here share with everybody no showing Deon is that that man I was just telling him the manhole in the intersection was that manhole
right there that's the 3.6 and then the one in the sidewalk is Storm at the north west yes and then there's one on the south
uh the south side of the intersection that storm as well that goes across all through that open drain there's two on the inter there's two at the intersection there's one there's a storm manifold here and here
on each side of that intersection the sewer man is dead center right right in the middle of the in the middle of the intersection yes and and that's that elevation that's the part that I was questioning but if we don't feel like we can do anything with that
belly in the road it's tough i feel it's unfortunate but I'm willing to you know move on if nobody else in the committee thinks that's it needs it needs like we need like millions of dollars to to do it unless we talked
about to the east of Old Post okay so here you know the first step there is to do a study which you know it's probably $600 700,000 uh the second thing is then to go out to bid on it that's probably the
to raise that road um just that section of the road is probably north of $4 million okay and and I say that because you'll say "Well you know it's about a million dollars a mile to build a road how can
it be $4 million?" Well the problem is the houses right because as soon as you raise up three to four feet probably maybe more you're going to be creating two things one another belly where now
you're impacting private property but secondly you're going to have you're going to have uh accesses to their houses like this which by no stretch of the imagination would any engineer ever ever ever you know put in
there and so you have to And as soon as you do that guess now what you've done yeah that would be a lot that too but but now the driveway is above the house so there's there's millions of dollars there i agree with I I agree with that
because of the cost of road but I would submit with accurate elevations we may be only talking about and I don't know how exact I could talk to the neighbors how deep that water gets i would submit probably not 12 in
so if I could do 12 inches there on that belly okay for probably less than nah couple hundred feet does that get me something to keep that open during a plus water event okay I'm not talking about the
whole road i'm thinking something in the interim until we can do that more comprehensive look so so two two different storm or two different high water events we're talking about right so one storm surge
right so not going to get high enough right you're never you're never getting high enough battle and and so actually three different three different say three different uh water events so one is storm surge second is blue sky
flooding right and and that at at the worst is is maybe six to eight inches on the road at worst and probably not the whole way across at least since I've been here that's what I've seen and then third is a storm event i guess you got a
fourth one storm event with a high tide then then it'd be higher but the the storm event actually if there isn't a high tide the storm event comes off of what's that road right there on the side there can't
quiz no no no the north south road not right there what's that hamber Hamber because that that's where the flood starts when when the storm when it's a storm event it starts there and
it'll come back over there so the easy solution the less costly solution is not raising that road for three of those four things okay right the easier solution is and you have plenty of
rightway to do this is you get rid of those swells and you put pipes in the ground and you oversize the pipes so when you get the blue sky flooding because of the king tide and all that it stores there and so you won't you won't see that
going over the road that's also going to help you when it gets to a storm event storm water mean water will be able to get out a lot quicker um will not help you though in a storm event with a high tide because that water's not going anywhere right but you
build capacity within the pipes to at least mitigate some of that another thing with all of that two things um one is how to get the water over to um so
would be between the primary property and the back of these apartments which is um which is Richie right how to get water over there so you're pushing it away from Bay Boulevard and you're pushing it
over there building capacity on Blue Sky and so when you get those those you know so it won't affect blue sky flooding but when you get a storm event with with a high tide it forces water over there and so it's not impacting you at all on Bay
Boulevard the other thing is over on the pond that goes ultimately connects to 19 comes down goes miles into the pond is finding storage there so when when you're getting a high tide the water goes that
way to a certain thing and so again you're minimizing the water going back into those pipes so you don't have to worry about the high tide impact on the storm system so if I'm following correctly what you're describing is we
need um six to 700,000 to at least assess the situation first for that problem and the solutions you've described is that that fair okay and you know we we've we've
put money in for that study already once okay but we don't have every all the other things we need to have in place to force that money but we will hopefully next year be more successful in doing this and the state's going to unless they get rid of their
their grants for this um we should be in line to get that money and so that'll be the start but but honestly if you know raising that road the way it needs to be raised is probably 10 to 15 years down the road um and just from the dollar amount it's going to be a crazy amount
of numbers that you don't have right i mean there's we're not going to pull $4 million out of thin air is is there something the committee can do to help that process is there anything that we can assess or provide or do you feel
like that's moving along in a reasonable fashion so one of one of the big things that that I would think that the committee would be a part of um you know we put in the money for the um storm water
master and and in that doing that which we should get funding for um you as being kind of the steering committee for that because out of it there's going to be a lot of um you look at storm water but also you know what are the impacts
of of how we handle storm water now and the impact on the estuaries and waterways and all that so there's natural tie in um so I think that's where you fit in okay on that is you'll help start guiding because I mean you've you've already talked about quite a bit
of the things that that plan is going to have to consider and come forward with the different solutions to it okay folks thoughts make sense yep
darl you want to jump in i probably cut you off i apologize oh no no matt Matt Matt cover because he's saying he's saying it right though yeah so to piggy back on what what he was saying is down
here down here up here and down by miles are three totally different things we got to worry about so this right here this inlet affects just to here uhhuh that the property he's talking about that goes out to
Richie is affected by that canal that's goes down Coons so it comes down Coons comes down goes around on the where the hiking bike is on the other side of the rail goes down to where um behind the apartments goes out and goes out to
Richie so when that's how that area floods in okay and and so if I could just real quick so what what I'm proposing in all this and and he's hitting on is how to use the
system that we have and retrofit that system to be effective towards getting us through the next 20 to 30 years because the the unknown in all this is where is that water level going to be right because if if we're talking a foot
a foot foot and a half difference in the next 20 or 30 years again everything I'm saying is irrelevant right um but if it stays relatively the same then you start trying to figure out okay how do you disperse that that title impact on on
the city so it doesn't have a negative impact when you get a storm event because that those are the two things that right you know the the the blue sky flooding we can we can deal with I mean it's it's it's an issue but it's not a big issue right now at least for that that section there's another section
city it's different so then you know the question is how do you how you how do you dissipate those high tides across the three different areas that he's talking about so so when you have a storm event
it's not going to cause an issue And so what I'm what I would be proposing is there needs to be connection between all three i'm not an engineer so I don't know how you do this but there needs to be a connection so when you get pressure on one you have two more to back it up
to be the overflow right and and so where he's talking about there you know again a a title impact we don't want it to impact the other two but if the other two are getting impacted which which do
have an impact on the roadway and residents we have to figure out how to push it over to there and and so again the the solution here is capacity and so an example would be if you look at how that that drainage system goes out you
know I'd be looking at okay let's follow it make it deeper make it wider so so there's less of an impact so it has more capacity to hold more water coming from other directions whether it's storm water or overflow and the same thing
with would would be the southern piece of that which is the part that 19 connects into miles goes to you know how do you make that bigger so it takes it so in the middle you know the water's always away from the middle so you don't have to worry about it
got make sense folks okay okay All right what do we have next on on there i don't think I think these were the the things as far as the roads piece but it sounds like between the Army
Corps issue going forward that was it for those and uh this I think we've got that uh Okay that's the the piece there um
okay and planning zoning since uh uh Sean's not here um I think the uh I was hoping he would be here because I think there's an opportunity now for the city and uh given the different
things that are going on but there's uh uh been looking at conservation easements and mitigation banks for um wetlands and whatnot and there's uh 30 acres of buffer property that is
available out Bay Boulevard on the north side and um it is a unique opportunity for the city at this time to potentially acquire that um and potentially have a revenue source
out of that rather than just owning property and taking off the tax roles by using it for developmental exchange to get things that we may want in other areas so we could sell those things to
the developer uh and potentially and I'm not an attorney but developing some revenue components associated with that this property is I don't know if the developer realized they probably can't develop it given the latest which is
which property are we talking about for Caret uh I'm not sure that it's the where the last of the houses are on the north side of Bay Boulevard there's that new two-story house there and then there's
vacant property that's for Okay right so anyway those 30 acres I was describing um as far as the opportunity creates a buffer uh for uh storm surge uh at the
EMC they showed me the line uh that they had enjoyed here last year uh but getting land off the books to me is not necessarily a prudent deal but uh some of uh my acquaintances over on the east
side uh this is a big business as far as uh being able to do development by pro being able as a governmental entity being able to provide that to the entities that are coming in to make investments in your community so I think
if that's negotiated prudently we get a revenue source out of that land and it's not just static so if we do this wisely so it was something because I saw this was available I thought I'd bring it up i was hoping you know Sean was here he'd
probably have better context about it what's the idea with that because that's platted property that's I've walked back there that's high land some of it a lot of it's been wiped out by the the storm vegetation
well right but I mean a lot of trees have died from that but I mean it's still it's that's like precious property that should be developed right don't know for for sure i mean that's that's we only have so much land in the city
and that's good i mean that that is a platted piece of property and that's a good piece of land to build on it's just it's just not built yet but I mean somebody tr somebody filled that in once upon a time that's my backyard and um I
mean that's you know I don't necessarily want to see a gigantic apartment complex or something there but they had plans drawn up for that just several years back um for Vakara Bay i mean that's like you know a lot of people and they were going to do a boardwalk and everything else i mean I think that's
probably a good I mean we only have so much land in the city that's that's you know platted and livable and able to build on and stuff and I'm not I'm just I think it'd be crazy to turn that into like what the Autobond Society is
doing and whatever you know what I mean that waiting just waiting for you know the ocean to swallow whole um because we only have so much you know we only have so much tax base here anyways I mean we're trying to grow the city to some extent you know and you know like for
instance like developing that could give us the money to maybe raise Bay Boulevard because that would be the exit you know what I mean there's there's there's a lot you could sort of do there I mean I I just don't Are you saying like as a buffer for the storm surge
Well it accomplishes a number of things but if I could get more development in a preferred area maybe higher density versus a lower density there and I get more value out of that versus developing there then there's the economic model
that makes sense okay i don't know what all's in the hopper at the city but if I could give a developer greater potential because I was able to offer this regard and there's a baseline be it's in the special flood hazard area what they can
and cannot do all right but if I can get more value out of this over here and give them sell them credits over there it's a small price to pay because my dollars are over here yeah I get dollars there all right i I I get that so what
are you actually insinuating like what are you how does that what I'm suggesting is what's being done in the state of Florida is identifying a couple of things that have come out from the storms one is um for cities to have buffer areas particularly along the
coast and in the developed area you have little that's bufferable okay uh but then um my acquaintances use that as trade tradeoffs for larger more expensive development because they've
got that to give away it satisfies the state environmental cadres because you can do a lot more by negotiating over here so it's a a trade-off between the two so in
that the opportunity presented itself I just brought it forward for something to talk about because it's available now it may not be available tomorrow all right so that's the only reason why I bring it up if it makes sense great if it doesn't that's too that's okay too but hence
bringing it up there they did spend money on a whole study for Vakara Bay i don't know if anyone's even looked I I have the file for it it's pretty interesting things and it's something that you know we city I think it's great for the city i mean it's just bringing more people and money to the city here
and it's not really you know it's not like congesting anything it's like you know it's like a 50 acre parcel i mean it's huge you know it's not all buildable but there's it's you know it's like a pretty good plat you know i only bring it up before Yeah i'll just
say that um I know Swift Mud had put a kibash on on the development that was most recently looking at going there right for a number of different reasons I'm told i don't know what those reasons are um but I was told that that was kind of
the thing that killed the the last development proposal was coming in um you know there is there is upland there yes but there's not a lot of upland so their density you know they were basically going to be building on pods
within within those acres right um so I I don't know how all that I mean you know you bring up from my perspective that's that's something people that make decisions have to make a decision on right because you know to to purchase
that and take that out of out of the ability to collect those property taxes which help drive you know uh services as well as keep the cost of services low per person i mean that's that's the calculus that has to happen um and so I
don't know because never had the opportunity to talk to the council about going that that route with it but I think it's one that needs to be discussed and not only there you know on the the southside you also have all that property on limit too right right and and again both you know the things that
they share in common are you know what what was possible 30 years ago is not possible today yeah and and you know what was platted in on off a limit 30 years ago or thereabouts you
know it was like 900 units you couldn't put 900 units on there if you tried today because everything's changed and so that particular property I think there was a thought of what could happen 20 years ago or 30 years ago when they first started splitting it off but
there's reality today what they can do and and again I don't know what that partnership I mean maybe there's a partnership between you know the developers and the city that get in there and you know but I don't know this is where I thought um there are people
that are very knowledgeable about this area that we may want to reach out to to do a little bit of due diligence to say if I had these 30 acres and that accomplished X from an economic model
standpoint yet around the waterfront overlay i had different ideas all right and if having that available for a developer for something more don't know what more means all right but if I could
do some horse trading there maybe the dollars make sense and somebody that understands this better than Wah certainly uh may be able to do that quick numbers on the back of the napkin and say "Hey this has some legs i would
seriously think about it." Or you're on drugs don't worry about it all right it's not worth the word you're not using is offset right yes and that's exactly offset right but what it buys you I don't know the specifics all I know are players that have done stuff right in
sensitive areas because they had these offsets to play right so it's like okay if that buys me something where I have nothing so and I think that's 100% of what I think was contemplated in your creation is to look at those ideas and
make a recommendation on city council that hey you know here's not only is here's an idea but we've looked at that idea and here's how we would recommend you go about it i I um I just I'm
uh I think that you know we have a lot of old development in the city and I think a lot of these environmental practices like are really stupid and I think we have a lot of opportunity to actually like like for Carara Bay is like a blank clean slate where you can
actually build something beautiful of the right elevation where you don't have blue sky you know nonsense and all this crap and you have an opportunity to actually do something in the future instead we're tra we're horse trading land that's not
even developed and potentially never developed and we need to develop all this stuff because we need new fresh property we don't need to develop all of it so that that's where I understand what you're saying but but if you develop all of it then you don't have
the area that you want to have so if you if you know anything about the Keys right the Keys got to a certain point where they said "Hey we don't we don't want any more development." If you're going to build a nice big new house you're going to have to buy an existing
property tear that one down take the septic tank out return it to a pristine state and then you can build your new house over here and so there had to be an offset right and in our area if you develop everything the flooding problems and the storm surge
problems become worse right so we need places for water to have a place to go right you want you want environmentally you want the area to still have places for you know in that area there's bald eagles nesting there's all kinds of stuff going on right and so you don't
want to drive all of that out so the the idea that maybe you use that and preserve it the way it is and it's not as developed and not overbuilt and then you may be overbuilt and develop in another area where that and and that
that that's my but that's my point and and um and I apologize but these are these are platted lands this is all we have to work with understand that to grow the city and we're talking about getting rid of platted property so that
we can let the you know I and I get it the bald eagles are really important there are bald eagles no that was pardon me part part of the problem that we have is that plans and development 80 and 30 years ago was
stupidly done and not thought out so just because it was platted and hey we're going to have high density property here doesn't mean that it's in where we sit now and knowing what we know that it's a good idea for it to have been platted that way so all is
saying is maybe we need to take a look at this and say is there a better way to use that land and shepherd it going forward and then we can you know there's I I would argue there's plenty of places where we can take stuff that shouldn't
even be in the city anymore and develop it tear it down and develop it again right so I agree we need we need massive progress i think you and I are on the same page with that but this is this is like this is like a blank slate and and as far as flooding and things like that
where the water is going to go this is basically waterfront property that we're talking about and when you go up you see the Gulf i mean this is like this is like multi-million dollar development we're talking here to bring This is It's
funny we're we're like we're like um we're like talking about basically giving up the last development the city has where limit drive and bar and all these things that should be developed you know to their fullest potential with
the biggest kind of money coming in we need to I I just think it's phenomenal that these are even here at our disposal to have a developer come in and bring in a couple thousand people into our city and build brand new things because what
that does is it builds a base for people to come and then tear down the old crap because right now we basically just have a bunch of old junk that needs to be ripped down and redeveloped but to bring in the new stuff at in at the current
you know code and everything like that bring the properties up and as far as you know drainage and stuff like that these are waterfront properties i mean it just goes right out to the Gulf can I ask Sure can I interrupt for just a sec do we have anything going on at the city
from a a redevelopment strategy much to your point that many of the things that we have are older uh so a lot of communities that are trying to evolve detroit is a classic uh of how do we go
from where we are to where we'd like to be from a lot is there anything out there today that we've got in the hopper or we're thinking about that you're aware of okay yes do you want me to get into that for two minutes anyway while I'm trying
Don't run for cramp my ability to talk can I can I before I do that yes can I just because I think this is actually the debate that needs to happen within the city sure right that% needs needs to
be decided because but is the question for me is here is this the right venue i don't know if it is right i I don't I don't know that either i mean half the council's here but let me have to ignore this but let me let me just let me just
say though that that what what you're leaving out is that these these areas I guess the question you have to ask is why aren't they developed you know if if this land is so great and so ready to be developed why
is it I'll answer the question sorry it's an easy answer because we face this when we talk to what they were saying do you know how much money we have to spend to bring Phil in yeah to build what we're going to build so I use the Crimean property
which is at the end of uh Richie so it's the the property by Walmart right you know they're they're estimating it's been estimated that's over $2 million of fill just to build on probably a third Yeah of the 20 acres and so that right
off the bat is a killer to any development i'm pretty sure what killed that that property over there's development was Swift Mud was saying you're going to have to bring Phil into these areas even even on the upland
you're going to have to bring Phil in to do that and they didn't they didn't do all the surveying they were supposed to do and so they said well then we're done oh wow until you do all this surveying forget it and that's tens of thousands if not more in cost to survey that they
would have to redo and so they're they're right off the bat not not all developable land is developed because of that right i mean it's not not because the land can't be developed it's just the costs are so much that that it's now
from from a community's development perspective you know and and you know look at Newport Richie newport Richie has a very active CRA you know you go over there and because they have a lot of money as well within their CRA you know they'll give they'll throw a few
hundred,000 to you to help you know offset that fill cost and so it makes it a little bit more palatable for those those developers to do things that they want to do we also have that offset program where they can get density because you know they have properties
that that you know will never be developed and and you can buy into that you know yeah exactly the transfer of development rights um we we don't have that we have kind of the bones to do that but we don't have that set up but
here I guess to to finish that point to go on to what Carl asked me is we need to make because we don't have endless amounts of money to do these things but if we decided that this you know between Limit Drive and and this area off of Bay
Boulevard you know we want to put our money on Limit Drive because you know there's a higher potential for denser development there and better development and you know the the infrastructure is already there and we're not going to be impacted by I mean I'm just making these things sure
but it makes sense to focus development over there then then it would make sense not to in try to invest in an area that's not going to be as as good for the future of the city on a lesser
developable piece of land sure and so that that's I think again the debate that everyone within the city needs to make is we have to we have to pick and choose where we want development to occur and then use our limited resources to make that that development happen so
to answer your question so um you know obviously the waterfront is is one of the prime um a lot of a lot of effort has already gone into that and and I think we're kind of that at a a cresting point where I think it'll be
downhill which is a good thing um in terms of development happening there and and once that development happens more development is going to happen yeah and more development will happen right um you know council as a CRA and I'm actually talking to them next Tuesday about this the next the next big area
that we want to start uh investing time and effort in is Grand Boulevard and so that that you know will be something that I think is going to be on the forefront of the CRA CRA's u um uh agenda start pushing how do we
redevelop those areas right now again we we don't have a lot of land that's not impacted by a um floodway flood area a high so I mean all of this then goes back to something that again what you were talking about
is these are all areas that if we say this you know Grand Boulevard is a better place to have more residential and commercial development than over here on Bay Boulevard well it's going to be hard for those places but if you have you know transfer development rights and
all this now all of a sudden you can you can possibly make a denser development over on on Grand Boulevard and use that resource which really are the development credits
or the ability to develop those other areas and so you get leave them alone you don't need that because you can do the same amount of development someplace else and it's in an area that's going to be less impacted by future rise in in uh water it's not going to be impacted
necessarily by storm surges you know blue sky flooding is not going to happen all these things that again make for better living conditions um within the city and you do it someplace that that again is is in need of
Thank you yes two minutes well I think perfect you know this is the struggle we touch on so many different things and you know I I feel like our mission is sort of clear
but not too clear it's good though but this was one of the things I just saw become available so I throw it out there for conversation and if we think we want to do a little bit more due diligence on it can certainly do that um going going
forward if you think there's I I'll certainly take the monkey and and run with it uh because I'd like to learn more about it to me it's an interesting area uh I I know big dollar people that are doing it it's like I don't know how it works so maybe if it
to me it had to give us some bottom line benefit to do so okay the last thing I want to mention is we have the Am I right one more thing what okay i thought you were keeping me honest here tampa Bay Regional Planning give me
a second Dave uh Tampa Bay Regional Planning uh session uh we have it's uh in the minutes so if you didn't see it uh there's an agenda in there it's at the very bottom isn't it um but also it's down in Palmetto
Florida uh so I don't know who all is planning on going i don't uh know yeah you do need to know if you want to go because we have to get that i'm in because I changed my schedule for
it so I'm definitely in uh for that so the agenda's included in the packet if you hadn't seen it it looked relatively interesting i don't remember where was it last year clear water clear water so it's more further away but probably less
costly parking though so it's just a matter of uh you know uh going and stuff but anyway the agenda is there for FYI uh I'm going to commit to Matt right now i don't know if anybody
else has or desires you can do that offline matt we're on oh gotcha sure you guys are counting you don't count what was the date again Ashley may 15th and 16th may 15th it's a Thursday and Friday thursday and Friday
i'll be in Texas yeah well okay so Matt are you planning goal both days uncertain um definitely one day i don't know about second day okay again the second day is kind of more more focused on their resiliency uh awards that they
do so you're going to coordinate any transportation or he says he'll drive okay cool perfect um Okay very good so uh that should be good i met uh Pete Altman from Newport Richie
the other day and uh he's pushing hard on that i didn't realize he was a member and and all the chairman the head the chair of their resilience right right so uh anyway had a nice conversation with him the other day so that uh I think can
bear fruit anybody else i didn't sorry no idea how busy okay um so that is let me make sure one other thing sorry
guys uh oh okay so what we have in summary is that we have a motion that were sent into council about the study for from US Army Corps of Engineers for along the federal channel and potentially sunset so we have something
on that we'll get the specific translation from Ashley uh can bring that to at next council meeting the uh the uh the sea level rise update we had fair discussion on that are we comfortable moving that forward to
educate council on that or what's our thought on that yeah sure okay all right all in favor of moving that forward do I have a motion motion move forward okay second all in
favor i any opposed okay all right mr mueller I think we're finished up here hey Mueller you have to say your address now yep new meeting i uh Wow i'm actually our uh council city council
representative for the Tampa Bay Regional Planning Council okay and we are bringing that back um in a previous um council meeting we did uh indicate that there was a a group that were going to go and I believe the city manager is
going to be communicating that effectively um for my edification or explanation to help me understand when we're talking about this a particular piece of property that we
want to do tradeoffs on and I'm just going to spitball here from the center the property next to Walmart it's got certain density limits now the property on bay it's got certain density now are we are we suggesting
something to the effect of the the individual or company that would be buying the property next to Walmart would buy property buy the property on bay and in lie of developing
the one on bay they would develop more on the property next to the Walmart is is that what would occur but the what the state and feds are recommending is that the governmental entity be able to do that so hence my
thinking was that we investigate the acquisition and be able to use that as an enticement for the type of development we want so I I see that but if we buy it it comes off the tax rolls and then it
declines but essentially you get a bigger tax base with the developed property I guess but that's the investigation from economics and essentially we could develop that into a park which has a very low density to some degree yeah i don't the the rules
are fairly specific from my understanding what you can use that property for exactly so that's the due diligence that needs to be done that's that's kind of where I loosely that's the way it is the other question I had is you guys are going to the potentially
to the core thought we were going to investigate at some point um how to get a maintenance permit for maintenance dredging for some of these issues and u problems that we had is that something
that's happening through I'm supposed to be working so we're making recommendations for the our task is to make recommendations to council good the current recommendation is going I can act upon that once once it comes that direction that
recommendation right now is going forward is to suggest going forward to army corps to get a study done around levies in the federal channel that's what's on the docket to move forward thank you i'm sorry um so so one thing I
I did email Ashley and um I'm trying to compile so what I'm trying to do is I'm compiling all the information I could possibly get i even have the Vakara Bay um plan from I think like 17 or 18 that
never got developed or whatever but it's it's pretty it's actually pretty good if you look at it but um but um what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to get all the pitch decks we've had all the John the mayor gave me um the information he had from a thumb drive but I know you've
been at this for a long time i know you've been at this for a minute um and I just want to compile all the information I can into one central thing so I can make it as as um you know lucrative as possible for the city to make a plan and say "Hey um and I'm even
looking at you know some of the older ideas of incorporating the uh canals up north and tying that into um you know Miller's Bayou and stuff underneath the bridge and maybe even opening that up further um and uh creating like a flow
if you will because we really need a flow to clean out these canals because it's just stagnant water you know no you don't think so that's okay tide tide pushes in and it pulls out sure and and I I mean we we've
had there there's a there's a a theory floated by an individual that Miller's Bayou should flow radially is the term that he uses almost like a toilet flushing right almost like a toilet flushing and it never connected on the
north end water the the tide pushes in just like it does on a beach pushes in and pulls out i'm not saying I'm not dying on any hill here i don't even care i'm just saying I'm I'm looking for as much information as I could get so if I could get all the information from you guys that you possibly have and and you
as well um and uh and anybody if you know some oldtimers in the city who got some stuff um if I could get that information send it to Ashley Ashley will get it to me and I'm going to compile all this stuff and work on it and um and I'll and I'll come up with
something to present to you guys next time no no I need I need some time with this i really I didn't know if you wanted to give us you know call out 15 minutes or so and give us a rundown of where you are or what no I really want to work on this like hardcore and I want
Yeah and also too I'm trying to use the technological angle of it um to uh to sort of compile it all and and do that and then and then what I want to do is I want to go to um other than the county
who should I go to for like historical records as far as like these plats and things like that well somebody knows right like when they platted all this and they did all this back you know in the 40s 50s 60s remember when we talked about how do we res you know do we
restore it to 1940 do we restore it to 1950 or 60 my eyes yeah I mean access to that information I de I think I would suggest having gone through this before is you have to knock on the doors see what's there and then based on what you
find that's what you have to go forward with it's never going to be complete because you can knock the way data's retained here and I'm talking ubiquitously is not easy to find right so you have to do the due diligence and
call it a day so I would highly recommend you know getting what you have and taking a cut at that then if you get some more data you can roll that in and see where it goes but you're never going to be perfect no nobody's nothing there's no such thing as perfect in the
universe here but what I'm saying is the information that you have and what Chris has and what what the city has if you can if you can find it I don't want to stress you out i know you're very busy and I and I and I know that you are busy um maybe Dave's got some kind of thing in the coffers that he got from um uh
Columbbo you know or something i don't know you know what I mean well how about this yes how about putting together what data you would like and then we can I'm not I'm not I don't want that i want everything yeah but I don't know what everything is i mean it's relevant i
want it because I'm not the one that's going to be looking at it ai is you understand so it doesn't I don't I don't need to pick and choose and be choosy i just want to get it all put it in a central database and then sift through it and then and then my next question is
is is who has the information of the original kind of plat and drawings or something to that effect of when all of these areas that we live in currently today were developed that way we can say because county has that information do
they yeah you just have to go basically you can should be with the county a lot of that's not on the website though yeah it is it's all there there's missing plans there are missing pieces but that's where I say it's take a snapshot on where you go you're not going to be
100% right but you can get all of our community identified there it's all platted from whenever and then and then the Army and then the Army Corps only goes back to like the 70s right so who do I go to
before that you're on your own well that's a shitty answer i I don't know what else to tell you if you've done the due diligence to be honest with you do I need to go to the state you know does the state Well that's what I'm asking because I I know that somebody probably has this information to be honest with
you as a records retention explanation depending on the development of the property some of those things meet retention and might not be available right sure so if it's if it's something that a property that wasn't developed and it hasn't been developed even if it's if it's platted or not
especially non-platted yes they meet retention so those things even if there were potential developments way back in the day they meet they meet a destruction schedule and they won't be available what about What about historically though and that and that's kind of what I'm looking for a challenge
and all I can tell you is a challenge well no no I but I'm I'm okay with the challenge but but see I'm not I've never went to the state of Florida you know what I mean and even asked for these informations but I know that you may have or Chris has an idea but but you've
got to knock on the door because recognize um you know civilization Florida development really didn't become refined until the 70s and 80s to some extent yes it was pretty much the wild
east if you will particularly if you go back to the 20s in the south side of the river right yeah yeah and that's why Daryl has the problems that he does because oh we'll just let it drain out here no big thing so the best you can do is talk to the various entities that
you're aware of the city one get what information you can go to D what about the state do you know Swift mud or D okay and they may be able to give you some but again the data is more limited you think everybody's all
seeing they're not you're going to find gobs of ways well I'm I'm okay with that but I I'm I'm I'm very serious about this endeavor on the city's behalf i'm not like you know I'm very serious about doing this and and you know I always I always it stuck in my head when you when
you said this multiple times where do we want to res because this this to me was like one of the hinge points that you brought up that stuck to me and this is why I'm almost you know wanting to dig backwards is where do we want to restore this waterway to
1960 1940 do we want to you know start talking about mosquito ditches i mean there's there's a lot of things so I'm so you know with that in mind you said that that stuck with me and I'm thinking about it so I want to make this as conclusive as we possibly could make to
to then sell it accordingly make a decision put a stake in the ground and bring it back to us okay i think that 1977 June is the right one okay you can't be wrong okay but share it with us
as far as what it could be because this is where you found data to that you could draw some conclusions because if you go back be before that it gets harder or it gets more vague so like all of the stuff that I've tried to bring to the table it's like I don't know if it's
right but this is the best that I can find from whatever sources and if it makes sense and you don't think it's right okay sure i think that's the best we can do we would like if we can get the Army Corps engaged i think they're gonna have a lot more horsepower to
bring to the table than our esteemed group is but but you know our council feasible right right right our council you know I I talked to them and they want dredging is high on the priority list it it still is and we don't have
really anybody you know working towards this really i mean I I know Matt's working on seaggrass right now or or we were talking about that getting um you know a seaggrass study done before I think like May or April or something you said um well you know I'm trying to set
a meeting up with uh county staff to talk about getting their vision of the city partnering with them through their MU MBSU program yes so I'm I'm working on that
but honestly I think the city is probably better off going our own road and going with them because we can do everything that they're doing but again the first step in that is hiring an engineer and starting the the study
process i mean the county is is not as close to dredging canals as people think right sure i they gave me which I was going to share with you uh they gave me their study that they've done for Holiday area and the Hudson area and I
want that yeah yeah i was gonna share that with you thank you um and and so that way everyone can see what what the extent of what they've done i mean that is contained in the study and they still have a long way to go before they're
actually dredging absolutely because they have you know the issue with what's what's what's that area called the preserve uh nature coast preserve yes yes yes but that doesn't preclude them the way they're they're thinking so well
I don't know if they know that or don't know that but I know when when I talked to them that's a big issue that they're trying to wrap their heads around they're getting So yeah but they want to know then we it's I thought as going through the aquatic preserves I thought that was going to be more restrictive and limiting i don't think it will be
based on my interpretation of what's there not in the city off the coast absolutely but even out the coast it's not as restrictive as if you look at the fine print on some of the letter stuff i I think there's more latitude than I
initially gave it thought but until we get there but just as a reminder what established this entity when we went forward in 2020 basically we made recommendations on water quality right and dredging was an
afterthought because dredging wasn't palatable at that point in time right all right so well dred but dredging was a tool a tool as part of the equation but water quality we need to get the things that that may be an answer
to because that was our whole frankly reason for being that the council said we want you to look at this all right so I'm still operating in that mode until I hear differently so well we don't want
to wait for the county then why aren't we talking to dredging companies and they can tell us exactly what we need to do but we don't know if that's the answer we don't want to talk to dredging companies you need engineers engine because you have to get the permit right only way and and so again
one of the issues the county has with their permits they want to do maintenance dredging but what everybody asks them is "When's the last time you dredge those canals?" And they say "Well we really never dredge those canals." And so then they say "Well you're not talking about a maintenance dredge then
you're talking about an original dredge." And that's a different set of permitting requirements than a maintenance dredge and so we're we're going to be the same boat that they're in well ours did get dredged though back in back when we did journey the last 10 years no the only the only thing I know
you didn't say 10 years sorry that but there's challenges around that and that's why we've always believed that we had to put this out with what was really important that would be acceptable and
then by the way in order to accomplish that we need to do some of this but it but it was with an engineering firm that said you're going to if you want to accomplish this this is all of the things to do behind it to do that and so
the reason that I want to talk to the county about their program is not so much that we want to be a part of their program but is there any way that we can utilize what they have done so it reduces what our cost is of doing it yes and that's that's to me the point of
getting where I need to get is how much can I use of what they've done and and if we can actually piggy back their contract with their their firm that they're using i can't remember what it what it's called now just all together
um but I I don't know what that cost is and so I know the company that's doing uh Fernando for instance county uh is Stantech i know what their costs are so I just need to get the contract with the county so I can look at it and say geez
which one is going to be better but again not knowing what I can get from them i I don't know and and if I can save hundreds of thousands of dollars in doing what I'm doing I think a little bit of time is worth it sure but but if
I can't save anything then then yeah you criticize that I you know wasting a lot of time but my thought is I can save money and and that's that's the key i think I I look to the members here i think if we respectively can bring
things to the table that rationalize walking that path that's what we need to do so if you want to take a task on and you want to take a task you you and you bring that to the table so we can see where it
takes us and if it takes us down that path I think we can all salute the flag but we've got to bring that to the table and to date that has not because there's been no uh compelling community reason that I have
heard yet so that's what we need to bring to the table so I challenge every one of you on that to let's bring it forward i just I just need the data like that old pitch deck that you got from like that you presented to the council two three years ago could you send that
to me five Ashley five years ago I think Ashley sent that she didn't send that to I didn't send that i apologize okay um just whatever you have that's relevant because I know you guys have been at this for a while i would greatly appreciate it because I'll I'll make
good use out of it i'm not just pulling everybody's leg here and I think that was part of the question what data do you need because the the data associated with the the the canals and the dredging and all of that is probably the most comprehensive data that you'll find uh
Darl may have some additional complimentary things but most of the things that we've brought to the table I would submit are not as scientifically based as and it's more recommendational
for a council rather than to say you know go forth and prosper on this but that data is there and if you would like that original deck I can say that I I send I send a lot of information to him right from
engineers based on that's what I be think will be most value so I mean if while you're looking at it if there's more specific information I think I got three I sent yeah there was quite a bit of information within what I sent you but if while you're looking at it if there's specific information because
when you say everything that's it's it's vast I'm using this AI thing that's that's but still I know it's new to the to the older generation but it's something AI has been around for 50 years it's not that new uh but I think you have to tell what you need if you
need specific category of information to help it make a decision that's what you need and that's where I thought an interim point if you want to take some time to say these are the things I'm looking for maybe we'll have some ideas to help you but I think just digging
into it making a run on it and say "Hey what's it telling me this isn't making sense i'm trying to update I want to update a pitch deck i want to make a new plan i want to present different ideas daryl's got a stack of blueprints from the original engineering of the
city that's this big and it's on paper that's like this that's crumbling and falling apart talking about No like from 84 oh really see that's what I need but you got to sit down and do it it's a stack of paper like this
it's not electronic digital so when it comes to the only thing that may help us with the whole dredging thing um is we just had a storm so according to Swift mud and DP I just
sent it to you back off their I sent the email five minutes ago if you cannot dredge anything like so if a storm pushed in any shoing any dirt any debris or anything like that
after two years you can't consider that maintenance dredging right if you go before the two years it's considered maintenance dredging because it threw all the spill the soot everything in there because so we have to to um for
let's use bluepoint as example all that stuff came from where came from the construction sites came from 19 right that's where it all came from so we have to eliminate that and then start dredging because if we dredge what's
going to happen all that stuff is going to be pushed back where back inside it's just going to keep it's just going to keep revolving it's just going to be a revolving door all the way all the way around so we have to stop that stuff coming through those pipes right there at that park and then try to fix it out
so you got to fix one to fix the other the countyy's just done some improvements on that big huge water out there they put in the the ripple effect you know to catch the stuff the small stuff and then we dug out on miles but then there's that section right there that
one behind the green we don't know yeah we don't know who's is whose well I know what's back there so we got to take one step to fix the other step so but we may be able to from everything I've looked at and done we may be able to do stuff under
maintenance but I like that that's awesome that's going to be But it's got to be like Matt said it's got to be done through through engineers as well within yeah so we do the storm we do something with that yeah do we need a Do you need We also have to prove that that's where it came from do we need a
permit though we couldn't just You would have to I'd have to call D to see if we need a permit for everything so and but maybe we could get a permit towards the end of that and then they may be able to exempt it i mean that's that's that's
best case scenario is they exempt it from employment so how we were able to do it to begin with was we were under a state of emergency and D recognizes those you don't need a permit to do maintenance at that point when you're
under state of emergency to clean out because that's what's restricting water flow if you're if you're restricting water flow then during a state emergency you don't need a go you don't need a full permit right so it's my thought solutions are there any
other things that anybody like to talk about or can we just real quick because I wasn't here we are holding you to this i wanted to introduce Derek Smith who is sitting over there who is our CRA resiliency
coordinator okay and so uh he brings a lot of knowledge and experience on the resiliency side and is going to be someone that's going to help us push forward a lot of our resiliency programs through the CRA capacity so if you want
to I come for the city of Clearwater so I appreciate all the comments i was there to do some of those um reports and and some of the digital uh twins for the sea level rise so I'm well aware of what your work with and well aware of the
sensor that you are referring to when it comes to the uh sea level rise as well so originally from here in Port Richie Port so just been working down there for about five years and I finally got back up this way so you're on board yes very good congratulations nice to meet you
nice to meet you okay uh motion to adjurnn motion to adjurnn do I have a second motion to adjurnn second all in favor i I thank you guys