##VIDEO ID:IYiZmWvW4BM## come in my bathroom you hold the key I do my first city council meeting Tuesday January 14 2025 just a little bit different tonight before we have impation have seen that our former mayor passed away tomorrow visitation tomorrow and a funeral is on Thursday um so I wanted to when we have Danny come up for the invocation out of respect for for her and appreciation her service if we could have a moment of silence for the invocation so like to invite Danny fields for the invocation and remain standing for the pledge of course moment of silence that's your leave Lord we just thank you for this day and we thank you for that mayor and Lord how she served and was a leader and we just pray for peace over her and her family and Lord and we know there's a time for everything so now I just come before you and for the ask for wisdom for things that's going on for the city and for this meeting tonight that every employee would act with servant Integrity with a position they're called into with character and honor leading Leading the People with the government and the word of God through Jesus Christ and I just want to thank you for the stuff that they're going to be discussing tonight from the public and also the city manager the mayor the council and the board in each department here how we will work to uh make this a place where we could grow together and hear from you and hear from one another and be prepared for everything that we have to face and decisions we need to make tonight in Jesus name I pray amen amen I pledge ALG to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all thank you m clerk have R please Mayor John Eric Hoover here vice mayor Linda Rodriguez here councilman David Mueller here councilman Robert hubard here councilwoman Lisa Burke here City attorney Nancy Meyer here city manager Matthew coppler here thank you uh first up we got two sets of meeting minutes so looking for a motion to approve the September 10th 224 City meeting minutes motion to approve September 10th 2024 Council second motion have a motion second got one question sure um on page what can I see the page anyway it talks about Amendment four can somebody refresh me what uh we did there with Amendment four what was Amendment four amend four was the um the abortion Amendment for oh okay it wasn't ours okay gotcha thank you anything else forther discussion no I'm good thank you all in favor say by saying I I opposed motion carries uh next up I need a motion for the October 3rd 2024 city council special meeting minutes motion to approve the October 3rd 2024 city council special meeting minutes second motion second any further discussion all in favor say I saying I I I opposed motion carries okay next up is comments from the general public I do have one signed up Danny Fields [Music] welcome my name is Danny Phils my address is uh 8114 Li kid here in Fort Richie and again I just want to thank you for your service and you know together we could hear from the public and each other and make decisions there's a lot that has to be done the mayor and the city manager operation manager each department you know and uh so this is a chance for us to reflect on the not so much the past how we could grow and learn and go forward and uh that's one of the reasons I'm here you know we we so I want to thank you for the uh say happy New Year's to you but as a minister I also would say this is the day the Lord has made we could rejoice and be glad in it and we know we face a lot of things uh we do see things go on in our nation like California so I want to take a moment for them and and and know that you know that when we govern her we look at a bigger picture so we got to prepare and prep activate and recovery so it takes teamwork to do that and I know I think about the First Responders there and all that they're going through ruin the people see but when government looks at the bigger picture and works in all these departments we could be ready like we have here with hurricanes and floods starting with our uh government and the cities and you know the counties and learning work together as we've done here and we've done a great job at that and I want to thank the police and the fire department and you guys for the stuff that we've been through so on on that I want to also uh talk about an event that's going to be coming up tomorrow at uh 8114 Le kid at light of the world Tabernacle we're having a lunching at 12:00 to 2 and that will be leaders in area we uh pray and work in work together with the community and the people and the businesses and governments those are welcome if you want to attend that you're welcome and we would like to be able to discuss and learn and grow together in that area but I also will be in uh going to event with the mayor uh mayor in Clearwater Bruce and it's going to be called this the pastors and leaders meeting discussion Faith and family day and how we could work together in these areas to continue to build and uh prepare for everything we need to to make it a great place to live and work and play and and to be together so we all could learn from one another we could all grow and then build the character and have a great place you know Florida's I I I love our governor and when I say I love him I love what he stands for and how he carries himself and that we know that politics they bicker and fight with one another but when we can really see the big picture and come together that's what it's all about so I just want to thank you and invite you to that so the address would be can I go ahead and give that so uh it'll be 138 80 uh in Clear Water and uh FEA sound Drive Feather Sound Drive 138 yeah 13880 and uh and I got it here and I'll give it to you so if you want to come to that you could come to it I got some printouts and so for time sake I was just wanting to move on with that but I wanted to invite you to that so I do have a website here as well and I didn't want to give it out to have a bunch of people online go show up because it is an a reservation appointment but I wanted to reach out to leaders that was willing to go and uh give them that invitation I will be there other leaders will be there and this is a great time to learn and grow together with Mayors and and uh County Commissioners and all that would attend this so we're we're branching out into more areas to with somebody cares to work and I'm trying to be more involved in that area as well as serve you guys here in this community thank you thanks Danny that's all signups I have by show hands anybody else like to speak Mr Mayor welcome thank you mayor Chris mayor 4591 Harbor Point Drive um I just wanted to comment uh to Matt and his team uh Veronica and Tony great job on what you're doing um I went through the substantial damage inspection Tony came in professional solved the problems we're moving on and I've heard this from numerous other homeowners too so thank you and I know the pressure you're under and I know the guidelines you're trying to meet and all those things but from everybody else's perspective it's not so clear so thank you for helping our community get restored and get back to normal we appreciate it I really mean that thank you Matt all right that's it thanks show hands anyone else like to speak I'll bring it back to com city man pass it Mr C for his comments um real quick I didn't prepare a written one because of the length of the agenda I didn't want to be holding this up but real quick we're going to be doing some changes to the monthly reports it's probably going to be over the next three three months that we'll probably see that transition to a new format but we just started uh working with Department directors on that um another change that you're going to see is in the second meeting of each month we're going to have a department come in and do a presentation on what's going on in that department um I think you've probably done that before so that shouldn't be new but uh this this month is building Department's turn so uh on the 28th uh Veronica and Tonio will be do a presentation we look forward to it um last thing again real quick uh we're going to be narrowing down the uh the list of uh candidates for the police chief uh probably by the end of this week we'll have that narrowed down to uh the candidates that I want to bring in for formal interviews so uh I'll be sending that out to all of you so you can kind of see what it is and hopefully have the whole plan put together for what we'll be doing when we bring him in so still on track sometime uh early February to have that uh process and hopefully by mid February have h a new police chief named that's thank you okay next up is comments from boards committees um you have CAC no cic but the coastal resilience um we did uh Mr Roth and Mr Leeds and I went to the county and met with um a group from the county um and we had a great meeting it was really um informative they gave us a lot of different projects that they're working on um the four rivers Basin project which is which is an Army Corps project which is uh resurrected apparently it was um in play years ago and kind of died off so that's back into play so they're looking at that one of the big things that they're looking at is the gulf Futures project which is um in combination with USF and Dr Wong they're going to be looking at the whole P the whole Coast but Pasco is included and there's going to be five data points from our Coast from arpa down to um holiday um and that's going to include the co uh the mouth of the river or river Cody River um looking at tides and and water quality so um that's in the future not in the near future but I'm sure in the future so we'll get information out of that um but it was real good to our meeting a lot of information um very willing to work with us and we expressed our willingness to work with them so lots of good things we're going to keep in touch and we're going to have um not we didn't set specific meetings but we all going to have meetings between the our two groups and uh keep each other informed so I'll keep you informed good thank you you're welcome a little feedback on her mic I I know and I tried to turn the master down but it's not working cuz I'm so quiet I think it's something that has to be done with the program just keep meeting or something so if you're not using it just turn it off so if you turn all the other ones off whoever's speaking turn turn the mic on and that way we don't have any interference coming see that works yeah so wait turn Okay um the uh Centennial committee um obviously those activities will be ramping up here mid-February um the focus of our meeting obviously we we assigned individuals the previous meeting we signed individuals to each one of the events to kind of spearhead those events and our Focus this this past meeting was to U secure funding because at that particular time we didn't have any funding at all from the packet that sent out I think s sent out about 400 emails to the businesses and um we got nothing back as of that meeting however since then um the what we talked about was uh kind of dividing and conquering that list going and and you know knocking on the door calling whatever more more personal visitation on that to try to to drum up some funding uh for sponsorships after that meeting I did make a few calls um I know I think we're sitting at right now we've got about 22,000 committed um so we 22,100 22,100 to be exact yeah I think we we received 100 right so we got another 22,000 that should be coming in very very soon and then obviously there's some other stuff uh in the works and people are in the committee are actually reaching out to to folks so hopefully we'll have uh at least sounds like we're going to have some good initial seed money um and then obviously going forward we'll be uh feverishly planning those events and and that's kind of underway so more to come on that uh that's all I have from the Centennial any other board of committees okay moving on to cons agenda look for a motion motion to approve the consent agenda second have motion second any further discussion yes I noticed that we have received Newport Richie's uh sewer bills so looks like progress is being made there and I appreciate the effort thank you uh I did have a question on that actually because as I was looking at this it looks like there's the Broadway Avenue sewer and limit Drive sewer all in the same account again it's all counting stuff so just curious more anything but there is that Congress and pin hill which is on a separate account um so I was curious of why we separate that out and then we only got October for that particular um area but we got October November for the other two so what why is November not on that one uh I'll have to check on that but um Sometimes they come over with zero and sometimes they they kind of come over as a double bill so that and then it very well could have been that we I would say a double bill but I'll check on it and have it answer for you yeah no it's not like not important I just was curious and is there a reason why we don't well we have a I guess a merged account for those two but a separate account for that one is something special with that particular that I don't know so okay um anything else anybody well not of Court not with this I had something before I want to comment on before the meeting but I'll cover that after yeah we get comments there okay any public I comment to bring back for a vote all in favor signify by saying I I I oppose motion carries okay next up is uh public hearings we've got two public hearings tonight um under 3 second reading of ordinance number 24698 and the number four second reading of ordinance number 24699 we'll cover those together um as far as commentary um and then we'll vote on each one of those separately um one thing to add on that is that um um the matters uh are on the record that they were heard on November 12th 2024 at which time Council passed the ordinances on first reading with recommended changes after City staff and the Africa presented their testimony evidence um so with that being said we're not going to have a full-blown hearing here but uh I want to open it up if there if staff or the applicant has anything further to add anything from applicant staff okay okay since there's none um then I'll pass over to Nancy to have her reading okay the first one's ordinance 24698 an ordinance of the city council the city of Port Richie Florida amending the comprehensive plan future land use map to redesignate a 0.70 acre parcel more or less located at 8202 cormel drive from residential to commercial mixed juice and providing for an effective date okay so that I'd like to open up public comment if anybody like comment on these see no hands I'll bring it back and that was for comments for both 698 and $699 so bring back okay so open up for uh motion of discussion on uh the second reading of ordinance number 24- 698 which is the future land use map change I'd like to make a motion to approve and adopt ordinance 24698 amending comprehensive uh plan future land use map and redesignate the 70 acre parcel located at a202 Corel drive from residential to commercial mixed juice okay is there a second second have a motion to Second any further discussion on that see Hands I put to a vote all in favor secondy by saying I I opposed motion carries next up second reading of ordinance number 24699 do you need to read that by time ordinance 24699 ordinance of the city council the city of Port Richie Florida amending the official zoning map to redesignate a 0.70 acre parcel more or less located at 8202 quile drive from R22 family residential to C3 General commercial and providing for an effective date okay and then also I've already had public comment on that but just again anybody like to comment on that particular one okay I'll bring it back um for motion and our discussion motion to approve ordinance 24699 second okay have a motion second any further discussion okay all in favor say I saying I I oppose motion carries okay that closes the public hearings next up Council business item number five first reading of ordinance number 25- 711 amending article one division one chapter 109 to update the flood plane management regulation of city of Port Richie I'll pass that to Mr C for introduction yes so we uh and I can't remember the exact date but we had a uh couple different discussions on amending this particular code in in a broader sense what's going on is uh we're taking uh a number of items that are located in chapter 110 and moving them from which is the building department code into 109 which is our flood uh Hazard uh code flood plane management code um so that's kind of the bigger point of view with this in doing so uh we had also had recommended at that point in time to increase the the number of years for the look back if you remember we were talking I think two or three years at the time and uh decreasing what the substantial damage amount could be and we were talking from 50% I think down to 45% um then of course we had hurricanes uh and so there's been a discussion among Council to uh keep it at at various times to keep this at the 50% Mark for substantial damage um and doing away with the uh year look back so there would be no look back period for that um there's a number of other uh items located within this that that really we didn't have a lot of conversation about I I think at the time when we first discussed this uh the substantial damage was probably one of the bigger items we talked about as well as the uh moving from one foot to two foot above uh freeboard for future development since then I know there's conversations that have come up about the non-conversion agreement that I assume we'll have a conversation tonight about um but with that I'll kind of lead into the the discussion and go from there okay you want read by title ordinance number 2571 an ordinance of the city of Richie Florida amending Article 1 Division 1 chapter 109 to update the date of the study to support the city's basis for establishing flood flood Hazard areas to remove the requirement to evaluate previous permits and substantial Improvement and substantial damage determinations in article one division 3 chapter 109 update definitions in Article 2 Division 2 Article 2 Division 2 chapter 109 to prly Define appeal and modify the definition of substantial damage and substantial Improvement for consistency with modification made in Article 1 division 3 chap 109 add more stringent requirements in article 3 Division 1 chapter 109 to require non-conversion agreements limit limit contents within an enclosed area increase the minimum building elevations on residential and non-residential buildings address address flood proofing and Foundations and Coastal a Zone require registered design professionals to design dwelling foundations and require anchoring and elevation of replacement equipment and clarifying article 3 division 5 chapter 109 that permanent placement of recreational vehicles and part trailers is prohibited providing a fiscal impact statement providing for severability providing for codification and providing for an effective date amen that's a long one I'm paid by the word t i no yeah um since I got their mic off I guess when you read might want to you know this way so make up a little better could you hear that okay ashy I guess um so a lot of this these changes um impact CRS points and so we Mar's a presentation before we open up for discussion might be beneficial to hear that presentation to kind of get some background information on those points and that so yeah there was a request at some point in past that staff put together a presentation that that discusses the points how you come up with points where we stand with points um are you going to that right now so it's being pulled up and I'll turn it over to Veronica who worked diligently to put this together thank you very much tell me c it up here so this is I put a oh give her this Mike that was so I put a brief summary of the community rating system of course this is a PowerPoint or a topic that can take several workshops to understand the indepth of the the intricatus a quick summary of what it entails where we stand today the activities that the city is working on to try to move forward with some extra points and how we can lower our class rating and gain a higher discount for our insurance premium okay so this is the national flood insurance policy it provides affordable insurance to property owners and encourages communities to adopt and enfor enforce the flood plane management regulations what is the community rating system so the community rating system is a voluntary incentive program that recognizes and encourages Community communities to practice and exceed minimum requirements from the national flood insurance uh I'm sorry Ashley go go to slides okay so here is where our class sits this is where the city of Port Richie sits so for the communities range from 5% to 45% and they're discounted in increments of 5% okay so they're based on 19 credible activities which are organized into four categories so the higher the number you are the I'm sorry the the the higher the number of credits the lower the CRS class one being the best class that we can have we are at a seven okay the city of Fort Richie currently is at 1789 credit points um I also put in here the county is at a class six with 20 2020 points and the City of Newport Richie is out of class seven so this this is something obviously that we're looking forward into acquiring more points to lower our SC that you said 1789 sorry we're at 1789 credit points does does that include the points we've got for the 4Runner software is that no okay so no so this is all of this data is up to date as of now but not with anything that we've acquired within this past year so do we have a projected uh where we'll be with those because I know we we probably don't know Point values we're going to get for some of this stuff we're hoping with the gis we're hoping with Forerunner we're hoping with some of the other things that we've done that it'll require it don't get us into a class six we're pushing for a class five but I I think we're safe to say that we should be out of class six but that's all going to determine different things do we have do we have the um a spreadsheet or report shows what categories and the values rece and so in the next in the next slides you'll you'll see that okay we we broke it down by the points that we've acquired the averages that are out there um and what we could possibly obtain okay so they're they're in these slides so the next slide Ashley so we have 19 credible activities we have four categories public information and education which is Outreach in education flood plane management regulations which are your zoning and your building codes they should be there your flood damage reduction which are your structural improvements and your [Applause] mitigation and your flood warning an emergency response preparedness plans and emergency Outreach so those they're broken down into those four categories and under those four categories you have 19 activities okay the next SL okay this is each so the next couple of slides is going to show you a breakdown of the series um by activities so all of the 300 series encompasses your elevation certificates your map information your Outreach projects your flood protection your flood protection information and assistance and your flood insurance promotion so each one of those is that so section 310 is an activity 320 is an activity and under each one of those it shows you everything that we can acquire points for and there each a point so it's going to vary so the points are going to vary um some of these I did put the points in what you can get um the city has been working with the county for for the past several months to establish a program for public information also known as the PPI the CRS provides additional credit for public Outreach efforts that are coordinated through an adopted program for public information uh the city and county have contacted stakeholders and will hold its first meeting January 22nd of this year so we have been working diligently with the county to perform that we do gain extra points for that committee um just establishing a committee does not get us points so we have to do projects and so we have contacted um I'm proud to say I've worked with Alina over the CRS coordinator at Pasco County for several months to establish this and we we have acquired uh the city has acquired five stakeholders here um and she has also has two or three from the county from her side that are also be in attendance um this committee we need to have 50% or more has to be stakeholders and not government workers so even though we have a good long list of government workers we also needed to um have also outside people stakeholders as well was the name of the committee it's called the PPI the program for public information is that residents stakeholders or um so we need to have an insurance a well on staff we have uh our stakeholders uh include a uh an insurance agent uh an insurance firm uh we have the planner we have a planner um we have two Realtors um and we have two people from the community a contractor and uh a person from uh one of our committees one of our boards here who was interested uh in in being a stakeholder so another question I had so you mentioned when you going through the the rating was six I think say they had 2020 or 2,200 points 20 2020 points okay so they they've just uh they're just over that 2,000 to get them into that six category correct my my question is obiously as we're working with the county have we kind of took side by side with the analysis that we have and what we're doing to get our 1798 or 89 what it was against what they're doing if they get their 2020 compare you know what are they doing we're not so so we have we are working on that there have been some changes at the county um and I was just informed last week that that CRS coordinator is not going to be in that position for much longer um but there are conversations that we've had at dealing with with the county is is sometimes somewhat of a challenge I'll be honest with you here we do a lot of things inous with the building department with the staff of three right over there they have multiple departments working on multiple projects they have Engineers they have different people working on those projects and so she collaborates and and takes in all of that information so to to answer your question yes we can do that and go but it's going to be hard to match points by points um they may have 300,000 Acres of open space which may put them give them the 2,000 points and later in the slide I'll explain that whereas we have maybe you know one piece of property that is an open space and so we are acquiring 25 points where they may be acquiring 2,000 points for that so sometimes it's you're not mixing apples with apples in that sense because of the area that they have that they en it's difficult um I have reached out reached out to Newport Richie and they're also trying to get a handle they also have new people running the CRS program there as well so it's hard for me to get data from my surrounding area for that um so we're trying to do the best that we can on our own to try to see what they're doing and try to match up so yes and no right I mean and and along the same lines I guess and I don't know do we share a c CRS coordinator or contact like when we submit that stuff to be evaluated is that the same person that Pasco and Rich uses or each each yeah they each have their own ISO representative and so they may not always be the same and so where I'm talking to Pasco County and never speaking to their their ISO rep I'm we have a different ISO rep here with us so it's is it is it possible to ask our particular person hey can we get let say I don't know this Safety Harbor or find a city that's comparable to our size very similar to us that maybe as a higher rating that we could say you know what's what are they doing to get that rating compared to what we're doing I don't if it's public record we can see that yeah and so we we've been in conversations with them as well our person happens to be out of New Jersey so I mean they're all out of state for whatever reason they're not in state and so a lot of the sometimes it takes a while for us to get that information because what they're doing up there is not what we're doing here and so but yeah we we they they they are there to help us and I know anytime I've reached out to them to ask questions more in detail um on different activities different things they're they're more than willing to help it just it seems like it's kind of a black box you know you Smit all the stuff and you wait and kind of see how you score like take a test and then here's what your your values if you had some tangible things that have already went through that process here's here's what they're doing here's their scores and we kind of kind of look at that it would it would kind of help us gauge okay well if these guys are doing this and they got 700 points if we do the same thing we could probably expect to get around that same number be easier to gauge as opposed to just doing all these things and and hoping to get some value that we don't really know it's it's somewhat subjective I guess I don't know thanks but essentially we have the scorecard right we do and we know that categories and values that we're receiving correct we can compare that to the county and to Newport Richie we can and then see if they're doing something like he said that we might be able to pick up um I went through that manual that 600 page manual and pulled together some ideas um and certainly we ought to focus on the areas that generate the most points and if we're wasting time on things that have 20 points let's move on and find the stuff that has 2,000 and get a bigger share of that right but hopefully that you're focused on and in some of my later slides I'll show that so that you can see thanks Sor interrupted yeah no that's okay you can go to the next one okay so the 300 series um in the First Column you have the activities in the second column you have the maximum credit points uh possible in the third column you have the Port Richie credits in the fourth column you have the average points earned and then the last column is your percent of communities credited so here it it goes through I mean I don't know if you want me to go through each one but average average points earned is across the entire program across the the program the normally on average people get 38 points out of 31 gotcha so for for construction certificates uh Port Richie earn 38 out of a possible 116 320 map information out of a possible 90 we've reached 90 uh 330 Outreach projects maximum is 350 we've done 109 uh 340 which are your hazard disclosures uh maximum points are 80 we scored an eight yeah this is actually good to see because you can see on on several of these we're actually doing better than average but then somewh L some where we're we're looking for yes let's stop at that one right there on that 340 Hazard disclosures right eight for disclosures there's things in that category real estate agent disclosure other disclosure requirements and real estate brochures they all have much higher values than eight so so things that we could focus on sure for example the real estate agent disclosure is 35 points if if you get that and I don't know what that entails but that's something that hey we could possibly pick up another 35 points yeah and so that's a good point because this is one activity that we have felt that we have maxed out on and we're not sure why we're not receiving the point so that is a note that we have to talk to our so rep about um yeah I would think this would be a fairly easy we have created the real estate brochure we do mail it out to all the Realtors we have we have we when was the last time we updated our results I guess because what I was seeing what do you mean your results these scores the these scores are given to us uh every year from I'm sorry every three years from the iso rep so these These are scores that we've had for a little bit of time so we we have a cab visit every five years they come here and do a cab visit okay from what I was reading in the manual one the last reported scores that we had and I believe was that you said 1789 we ended up was in uh maybe June of 2020 that's correct that was when our Chap and from what I read in the manual you can apply and update that at any time you can you can you're allowed one time FEMA allows you to update it once a year and they that's not what I read in the document in their document but it said anytime so I don't know what you mean by updated you mean by recertify yeah okay you're allowed one time a year to recertify okay but since 2020 and I've sat out in the in the audience here that we were going to try to keep up updating and improving our rating but we haven't updated it since 2020 so I it seems like there's a gap there we should be doing that every year we should be beating the bushes on this and looking at opportunities to move this number ahead right sure well provid us things that that have been done to increase it right if you done anything there's no sense to get recertification I get that but she just told me that they're doing brochures brochures got a line item on this for 35 points I think she said that they're not getting their Max points for whatever reason that's that's separate conversation I well and is it because we haven't communicated effectively to the body that rates and right there's some's issue there for sure there's some gaps here and I'm not trying to point figers I'm just saying hey we got to do a better job and it sounds like you're working on it and I want you go ahead wanted to say that understand that there has not been a priority placed on doing these things but and that's not that's not the fault of the building department I'm saying that there's not been a priority where a directive was we need to do these things and it's not that you know again the building department isn't wanting to do it I mean I I think when I first got here is not wanting to do it yeah they are want to do it yes they want to do it I mean when I first got here we had a conversation about the things that need to be done to elevate this and so it's something that we have been working on for the last year to get us into a spot where we can then go to um you know the iso and say Here's what we''re done and and so again it's you know it's not that these things just happen by chance there's there's work that has to be done to do it and it just hasn't been a priority in the past to do those things from where I was sitting out here what was communicated was we're working on getting this stuff we're submitting it and we really haven't so for whatever reason we're moving ahead now right yeah we definitely so I have a question sure so if if we haven't been recertified since 2020 we we recertify every year we recertify we have a cap visit where they come in here and they collect five years worth of documentation that's where these scores come from okay but every year we recertify we have to okay and so when that happens is that when you find out how many points you've scored for the things we've done yes okay that's what I wanted to know when you found out how many points were were given the recertification could be the same points as it was before just recertified for the recertification is you just submit documents it's not so in depth when they're here and they're collecting 5 years so next year when we have our cab visit it's 5 years worth of information we're collecting so for like six months that's all we're working on the CRS stuff to gather all that information together it sounds like that c visit is uh Paramount to to get a score change yes recertification is just a yearly thing you had to do that Cav is actually potentially changes your school and once we we're working on some project and once those projects are completed like Mr maer said we can recertify FEMA will allow us to recertify we think we we we've been working on GIS we've been working on different projects different things to try to get us the for the the the um Forerunner is another project that we worked on to try to get us doing different things so I mean we're working on some of those things before we recertify because when we recertify we want to give them everything we have everything we've done and then get us those and maximize those points can I can I clar ask a question um for the real estate thing as an example that's been in place for a while now we've been doing that as uh for the past five six years okay so that's been in place but we don't know why they possibly did not give us the full points for that but we have no control over that we just send it the on-site visit we have an interaction obviously a verbal interaction with them and we can show them stuff but you just on a yearly basis send them what they what we have and there's and you have a you have a contact person but that's kind of like is that cor we send them all the documentation and they make a decision on that there's no really interaction that's correct so we don't have an opportunity to say hey we were expecting to get 35 points for this thing why do we not get so you have been doing the work and we did address it but they had CRS changes ISO representative changes the last person I had was out of California so there were some changes within their own organization and it the recertification we did in September and we didn't get results almost to August of the next year so it took us that long and I have email threads showing that we've been trying to stay on top of that to find out where we were where we were lacking what we need to do but they also went through changes and so we didn't get that data until later in time but yes we are working on it and yes we are so they have been working on it for over the years since you've been sitting in there it's it's just the it's a slow process yeah sometimes it's out of our control but yes we are govern enties that a Sure Fire slow things down I think there's a new sheriff in town and maybe things will be moving along better I like to move good um I forgot what okay on to the next one actually this is the 400 series The mapping and regulations uh these are the different sections flood PL uh flood plane mapping open space preservation higher regulatory standards flood data maintenance storm water management those are the activities in the 400 um the 400 series focuses on mapping and Regulatory activities to enhance flood risk management and Community resilience is this where the 4Runner would come in to play do you know what category would fit I I I don't know off the top of my head but I don't think it's in the 400 I think it's actually spread over a number of these remember because each activity can can you've got elevation certificates so that's in your section 300 you've got different areas and we've got all the documentation that we collect we have to put those numbers on there on where we think that they so one document like our newsletter our newsletter that we send out the hurricane newsletter we have that under I think it's four or five different categories so it it depends on what you're doing and what it right you can gain 100 points off of just having Forerunner by doing the different things that it didn't you get a base just having the software without any configuration at all and that's probably that's probably one section and as you do things with in Forerunner that's when it expands because possible points that have for you mentioned elevation certificates and you mentioned we got 38 points for construction certificates but nothing for elevation certificates and you maintain those here so somehow elevation certificate since this has been separated out so when we do our annual recertification El elevation certificates get sent separately you have to be 100% compliance so in other words you have to have one for every home or building otherwise you get zero points for correct okay correct and it has to be 100% correct because if the elevation certificate is not 100% correct they kick it back and you have two chances to get it back so if that elevation certificate is not accurate I've got to get in touch with the surveyor who gave me that certificate for that that construction right for that home being built and let them know hey this is not proper this is not correct you've got to fix this wait for them send it back and then I send it off but this is the example I'm trying to emphasize here's a situation where we're never going to get a point why bother the work if you're not going to get the point we have because we're always going to have construction no I I agree construction but you don't need to maintain an elevation certific ific if you're never going to have 100% of them you're you're wasting your time but what do you mean by 100% of them you just told me 100 we can submit two it it doesn't matter there's no number on elevation certificates you don't have to have you have to have 100% completed it has to be 100% in compliance in other words the the certificate has to be compliant correct individual correct but we've not gotten a single point for elevation certificate that's not true that's you just if you backed up you only showed for 310 38 points for the construction nothing for the elevation well the 38 was the was Max no 38 is the max for constru what we earned average points earned are 838 the maximum credible points possible are 116 oh Aver but we only received 38 that means we've missed the mark on post and pre-ir amount okay maybe we can take this offline the reality is is I'm interested in people focused on things that we can accomplish rather than things that we can never accomplish and if we've never accomplished a point why are we wasting the time right I think we have just I think it it's maybe some miscommunication there when when questions are wrong but but we get points because we do collect the elevation certificates we have to do right I mean there's yeah we have to do that that's not yeah and so we do get points for having them I think for what you were saying was that they have to be 100% accurate not that we have to have an elevation certificate for every property that's correct that's correct so the ones we have have to be 100% to get and we're only submitting elevation certificates for new construction we're not we're not submitting elevation certificates for construction that's already out there built it's only for new construction so if we only submit two elevation certificates we only get points for those two elevation certificates but they have to be when a property changes hands you have to get one I'm pretty sure to close I had to get one on my house you can use the old one there one existing yes yeah but that's not one that we submit that's not new construction yeah so let me ask this because obiously we had a firm change this might be going down a rabbit hole but we had a firm change where my house particular I used to be in a wave action AE in a l and and they I they removed me from that so that's that's changed my elevation because of zone change or whatever um that automatically makes my elevation certificate inaccurate because of that map change is there is it incumbent upon the city to go out and fix that because your isn't new construction so you don't need well right but still the city houses that elevation certificate and if you're going to raise your home if you're going to add on to your home if you're going to do some type of construction that's gonna that's going to require that then that's different so until that until that uh action happens it doesn't matter what my elevation certificate has because I'm not doing anything with it correct so really this these Point values are only based on new stuff and so I which I find it difficult to believe that how these things are not accurate that doesn't make any sense to me and why is it in coming upon the city to to to fight with Engineers or whatever say hey this isn't right that doesn't make any sense to me why strange I guess it is what it is but okay so that those are the 400 series the next slide shows you the breakdown of where we're ATS hence what you were talking about Mr Meer um so in flood mapping Hazard our maximum allowable points are 802 and the city has 60 uh for 20 open space perservation we have you can gain 2870 that's 2,870 points we have 127 430 the higher regulatory standards so some the things that were discussed tonight some of the things that we want to we have a ability to acquire 2024 points and we have 276 points quick question um this is fascinating information so we had a brief conversation about Pasco having more open space and so they got higher Point values I would assume that this maximum credit is possible that any entity regardless of side size could achieve that maximum point value is that correct so we could even though we've got less open space in Pasco we could achieve 2870 based on our smaller open space right yeah open space perservation what does that mean acquire property acquire property keep it open the aut in there that's a we've got the Autobon in there we've got all of our parks in there how about the wellfields and all of that is open space okay thank you okay so these are the kinds of things that we want to make sure that we double check because there's things what about you know sometimes repetitive severe repetitive loss homes homes that are in the severe repetitive loss area acquiring those homes the city can purchase those homes tear them down and keep them as drainage keep them as open space keep them as retention all of that Acquire open space is huge th those two right there are huge higher regulatory standards when you cut back on certain things whether it's the 50% versus 45% whether it's two foot free board or four foot 4 foot a free board all of those things are higher regulatory standards and it the the more we keep taking away at it it takes those points away but there is a maximum of 2,000 points that we can acquire there if I could make a suggestion again I don't want to drag this on for proba maybe a workshop on some of these but if we could if we could identify this would be an example that we have open space preservation a maximum of 2870 we're only getting 127 the average is 500 that's a huge gap that's a huge opportunity let's pull a few of those out and even the higher regulatory standards I have a map I have a map of the open space and the credits that we get that I can send to you um and I could break each one of these even if it's it's going to take a several months to go through each one of these so that you could fully understand it and where we stand I think it might be it might be beneficial that if we if we pick out the second of these huge opportunity we have a workshop we talk about you know what can we do to enhance our point value because obviously we're we're severely lacking on some of these and sure it might be something absolutely relatively easy for the council to opine on and we can Shore that up yeah well more importantly it seems we need some feedback from the governing body because we're not getting the answers that we're looking for how do we make an improvement here and that was one of them that I had I had a question had 28 70 points and we're getting 127 um we can do much and and you know a lot of the ground that is owned is not owned by the city it's it's built upon but the city's got a large portion of acreage there and if you include Warner Springs Park too that's within the city limits I believe too and all the City properties we we want to make sure that those things are all dealt with and I think part of that is you have to have maybe a deed Covenant to indicate that this won't be built for future that's correct so maybe we don't have a covenant and we just need to do some paperwork on I I don't know I'm just you know thinking outside the box here on the bottom here I wrote uh activities 420 430 and 450 uh and 410 um are areas that the city could focus on for more activity points these measures are recognized in the Community rating system and contribute to an increased score ultimately leading to more points for the city activity 450 is storm water management can help the city earn more points by implementing and maintaining effective strategies to maintain and manage and control storm water this can include practices such as developing and enforcing green infrastructure Solutions like rain Gardens permeable Pavements green roofs installing retention and detention basins to capture and slow the flow of storm water enhancing Drainage Systems to reduce the risk of flooding by reducing runoff and improving Water Management the city demonstrates its commitment to reducing flood risks and improving resilience in which additional points can be acquired okay so the next slide please so these are points uh these are points uh allocated for higher regulatory standards these are different things um I know that we had discussed the point system and how and and what you can acquire um the cumulative substantial Improvement I know that that's something you know we have discussed but you acquire so many points tracking cumulatively over four year or over five years you get you know the 90 points um these are just some examples of the some of the things and some of the the points that you can um that you can acquire um reducing the threshold from 40 to 40% from 50 you acquire 50 points reducing the threshold to 30% you can acquire 70 points the free board that's something that you can also acquire uh hundreds of points um if we go to the two foot above you acquire 200 points so these are just some examples and some of the things that we have discussed over the time um that I thought would so just to point out because this is actually real based on the ordinance we're going to be considering so tracking improvements cumul over five years 90 points we don't track them cumul over five years track cul over one year right now so we're getting less than 90 for the one year look back that we have I don't know what that is 70 50 whatever the value is but at the same time so let's say we we consider removing that which is in the ordinance um but we also moved two feet above we're gaining 100 points there so that more than makes up for that change just sure okay sure I mean sometimes you can give or take right depending on what you're doing if you're removing the cumulative right you're going to lose those points but yet you're going to gain it on the free board um so you know it's a give and take but 2,000 points that's that's a lot of things that if we make the higher regulatory standards now it's not something in the storm that people want to hear and and you know that the reality of it but for you to know that yes we can gain more points by doing that um uh okay next slide this is the 500 series this is the flood damage activities um the flood management planning uh the maximum is 622 we're at 256 uh activity 520 acquisition and relocation 2250 20 250 points we have 45 530 flood protection uh 1600 maximum points we have 45 and 540 the drainage system maintenance out of a possible 570 we have 95 uh could you go back one slide just to the on the base freeboard is it three feet above is that the cap they don't okay so um one thing I wanted to ask is we're going to be considering two foot is if we should considered three-foot and the reason I ask that because a lot of times when people raise their houses they're raising enough to accommodate garage parking right so and I don't know R um so they're proba if if somebody's raising their house they're probably raising it above more than three foot anyway I don't know what the it depends on where you're at obviously what your Bas is typically see three foot above BF um but some jurisdictions because of these hurricanes are now going to four and five feet the the lake house on green that's in the process of being built you might not know I guess you know what what that is because OB it's a full Garage in there three and I believe it's probably three or even more maybe because like said I wish Mike was here because he probably know um like I said it doesn't cost much more to raise it a little bit more and you actually get use out of the underneath of it so maybe it's worth go ahead and considering three foot as opposed to two foot and just go and get the extra 100 points while we're doing but anyway we talk about that it varies what's that mine's five it varies you're you're You' have to go minimum at least yeah it's Gotta Be raised I couldn't hear what he said sorry yeah You' have to raise your five foot to get it to the two foot or the one foot um the the two foot I believe it is okay so but foot probation it must be raised a minimum of five foot per coat right and so you probably wouldn't raise it five foot you go ahead and raise it six or seven so you can park car another three feet you can park a car right so that's what I'm saying is most time people they're not just going to rate now some people would but there's a minimal cost just to go ahead and get it to where you can actually use that space for parking um so what I'm saying is is by that's probably something we could do to get some points that doesn't really impact people in a negative way at all unless they're really just scrimping every dime they got just to get them to that you know I don't know what a foot would cost and just another roll block well my neighbor across the street uh since has a a crawl space so his house is already sitting on blocks and he's a one foot under so he could raise his house another foot and he'd meet the criteria yeah he wouldn't want to raise it any more than that yeah the the the expense is so large to raise them that once you get them in the air is the is the expense how you put is got a crawl space is not as a slab obviously he's already elevated so he just Jack it up a little more and put more block all the working money is in getting on those things and so forth would be a little bit well the real analysis is do you knock it down and start new and deal with a different footprint yeah well that's that's another thing is it it comes a thing you decide maybe I just build on top of take the roof I build on top of it and turn my lower level into parking at that can't do that you can't yeah you can't that's what they're suggesting that's what they're suggesting down south that they're doing elevating it put a second story on and then converting the bottom to a garage converting the bottom to open you got to tear the whole structure down you can't build on top of a current structure because you're assessed value going over 50% of your assessed value of your house when you do that there's no there's no 50% you can put as much money in house you want if you're mitigate yeah you'd have to get an engineer to say that you're that to do that some might not support a second construction correct but yeah they could but if an engineer says that your house can hold that weight we do have a couple people that are going to do that you just and they just build and then just the bottom that's the thing they couldn't put pillars inside of they wouldn't let me do that they had to tear you have to tear it down and put new pillars in even even a tear might be more economical than ra every situation is different you can elevate a current house like Perez says for2 200 to $300,000 a new house under the same square footage elevator is going to cost you about 600,000 yeah it's twice as much and just so you know we did have a meeting with FEMA today for two and a half hours and I did ask the question um because I've had a lot of people asking uh a good handful of people asking about contractors to try to raise their homes so a lot of people in the community are wanting to raise their homes it's just not financially it's just astronomical the prices are just astronomical and I did ask them and and fdm Florida Department of Emergency Management was also on the call with us um to see if from the state to see if they had they were working with any type of contractors or any type of resources to the that we could give to people that they can contact try to help people to uh to elevate their homes ultimately this is what Bea wants this is what we want this is what every this is what homeowners want they just can't afford it mikez talked about that and so I asked about that um and unfortunately FEMA really doesn't get involved with that and the state it's way above her level she did state so I mean we did ask those questions today to FEMA to see if they could give us some kind of assistance because I don't have anybody to give them to other than just general contractors that are probably charging on an arm and a leg at this moment in time to raise their home so activity 520 deals with the acquisition and relocation of properties prown to frequent flooding this activity focuses on buying flood prone properties as we were discussing earlier and either demolishing the structures or relocating them to safer areas the goal is to remove or reduce the flood of uh the risk of flood damage and high-risk flood zones earning more points will contribute to a lower flood insurance premium for our residents uh activity 530 is another activity uh that the city will be looking closely to gain us more points this activity deals with non-residential flood proofing and protecting building utilities from flood damage and reducing Dam damage from localized flooding hardening our uh infrastructure stuff the uh Li stations and that that qu kind of comes in here M I guess y we're working on yeah that's that's a big opportunity to gain in there as well looks like okay next slide this is the 500 series and the 600 series I kind of combine some of these together some of the 500 we already discussed um the 600 series is the warning and response time um this was just some information that I put here emergency warning decimation decimating flood warnings uh flood response operations preparing and in uh and implementing flood response plans um and the next slide tells us where we're at there um our activity 610 flood warning and response we have a maximum credible points of 395 The City Is At 255 um and we have no levies and dams so we didn't receive any points for those so there are things that you get points for that you won't be able to get if you don't have certain corre so maybe Open Spaces we couldn't achieve 2875 or whatever it was you probably can't achieve 2,000 points but if you buy a property or two properties or three properties you may be able to get 400 points or something you know um something is better than 45 or 20 um but yeah so this is just a summary like I said these are just 13 slides I put together of our more pertinent information um to give you an idea um each activity is it's it's in depth like Mr Mueller had said it is a 600 page manual it is a full-time position it's a full-time job just working on CRS that's uh unfortunately to answer your question we we do the best we can we we're trying to move forward to work on these things um but it it it it does take it is a big undertaking to have that and to be part of that program yeah so can I can we maybe bring this also to the coastal resilience committee this information whether it just be a copy of the slides or idea um or verica to come I don't know if next meeting is a good one I know but if you want to look at that Matt would and talk to Carl about that this might be a really good um resource to also give to him Carl Roth is also one of our stakeholders oh good perfect uh for the PPI so uh he's gonna be part of this uh Mike for I mean I can name him if you like um I have Mr starky I have uh Sean P I have Mike I have Tammy ver we have Carl Roth M and I have two people from the county that I don't know I'm sorry but we have two people from the county that are also stakeholders um and and we will meet anywhere from three to four times a year to go over projects uh like I said our first meeting is January 22nd at Pasco County's EOC uh we will be meeting there to uh introduce the program and and kick off with that yeah I I think it would be really a wonderful thing to bring it back to Coastal resilience since a lot of this is crossing over to over to that uh work you all be doing need both equate to points so thanks veronic for all that information great presentation appreciate that and also for your your diligence in working with that it's uh it's important stuff that uh at the end of the day could bring significant Savings of the the resident the city so um with that I will open up for a motion or discussion I um just a quick thing on language I just on page 91 on that first whereas Clause if you go down to the third to the last line which says for the purpose of participating it should be for purpose thank you um and then I know there probably I know I have some interest in discussing uh about the um non-conversion stuff in here but I I'll open the floor to you guys first just scroll through the document sure so if we go down to the document the first Red Line um is on H on page 93 sorry 94 which is a date change and so nothing really there um and again I don't you know we're looking at this there there may be other things in here that that aren't changing that are in there now we might want to address so don't don't feel constrained to the red lines obviously just on 91 going back to that when you read on the line from the top that addresses the bus the base flood elevation of two feet you would talked about so I don't know you know possibly going to three feet I know that was just off hand comment but yeah we could but but I don't know if if that if if we do this are we are we stuck with this until you know we do another resolution and it goes like so that's why I just wanted to bring that up that's yeah well why don't we that's a good point why don't we since we I brought that up whatever it's that what's in that W Clause is later in the document in Red Line okay oh it is Red Line okay it doesn't point on any specific number yeah if you keep going you'll find it okay I'm sorry thank you okay kind of telling the history of why we're doing thank you um we on page 91 yeah 91 something on there I'm on page 95 as well question who who is our flood plane manager administrator that's your building official building official is it the building official okay um and the only question I have is here we have a contractor doing the work that probably should be an employee and we're in a situation right now I understand that is there an intent to move forward with potentially Staffing a full-time building or along same lines does the flood plane administrator have to be the building official if in a contractual relationship could that be somebody else within on staff I don't know yes both right hire somebody Contra plan to hire a new building I think that that is our long ter long-term goal like next year two years five years or next year uh that is our longterm goal we had we had it I think it's posted is it was we had it posted we've received one resume oh so I again i' you know I'd love to hire someone tomorrow um but you know okay and if I if I may just add some some to that you know we represent many cities and many cities building officials are resigning it's a little bit overwhelming right now to be a building official so many cities that have had building officials are now doing the same thing the city is doing and Contracting that means there more people out there to hire they because it's a difficult position going to the the uh the uh contractors so so well well part of that obviously decision would be is it more advantageous from a cost perspective to contract it or have one on in house I think the the question is there do that analysis obviously and see maybe it's better off the contract where we're located we should have one in house I believe well it should be fulltime because of the flood management aspect as well I I I think though again kind of because there was a couple different questions there so I think from the standpoint of you know the long-term desire is to have an in-house uh building official I think a long-term goal would also be a standalone flood playing manager um someone that's not the building official because again I I think you know the the the role of building official is a little bit different and than of a a uh blood plane manager and so we do it in the past because that's what we did I don't know if that's the right thing to do I mean um you know honestly again keep going back and forth with with all of this that was during the budget we were looking at bringing on someone to be kind of the second person underneath the building official that would be an inspector and again I think there was conversation that that person could then also be the flood plane manager so the building official wouldn't be doing that so does that skill set translate into kind of planning well yeah I mean well I think in Florida the answer is no I I think more flood play managers have been Engineers than than planners where I've been in other states that's not the case it's usually a planning position so so again hybrid yeah in Florida different than other states but again the important piece is going through the process to become a flood plane manager well you're gonna hire two people as an example you're gonna pay a flood plane manager 40 50,000 as an example and you're gonna have a zonian official paying him $40 50,000 why don't you hire a real good guy that can do both for maybe $80,000 and keep him and take care of that guy he can take care of us and he's a knowledgeable guy that can handle that yeah well I think we're pay we paid our last building guy over 100 well I'm just using example I don't know what the sum of the parts are with our contractor but if you add up all his time and now he's working five days a week now because we have the volume right yeah U but when you do that it's probably going to come out to more than well say over $100,000 Plus benefits I think you can hire somebody to do that when I looked at it and we have in the budget I think is somewhere around 150ish thousand for fully loaded yeah I all about that I can do that there you go take that well so we're all topic and if we ring back into the the the resolution or the ordinance um there on there's not anything in ordinance that specifies it has to be the billing fish you it's a designated person by you right so we're good there um the next thing where was red line was 94 just a date again going down to well I would say on 95 though page 95 10963 the designation it's the building only official is designated as okay so that yeah so maybe we should put language in there that the the um city manager has the ability to appoint that design well he can delegate too official building building official or designate well then that would that would mean it the the building only official would have to do the designation and maybe they do give Matt the power so then as designated by the city manager yeah all right agree on that yeah got that give him that a little power he likes that okay thanks for pointing out um 95 so 96 and then red lines on 97 where we took out the uh looking at previous permits this has to do obviously with the look back 97 p7 on 966 okay well 96 97 um that's the substantial Improvement substantial damage determinations that's the part you're talking yeah now on 96 it does talk about estimate market value all that which is there's some red lines addressing that coming up so unless there's anything specific about that you want to talk about I want to make sure that we have a substantial damage substantial Improvement definition in here and I I think it appears later on later so so good there yeah uh moving on down to the next set of red lines unless the Bas seek something is on page 100 um page 98 98 flood P plane management records um 98 yeah um with flood plane management records are we in compliance with all of this and these are permanent records so that means there is no expiration date we maintain them forever right that's good y okay so so got some red lines on 100 well I'm on page uh well 99 uh permits required uh in our permit process do we have a published process for obtaining so that we can convey that information to the resident so they know the process to go through and obtain a permit and it's published somewhere we have that on our website well it didn't seems like there's other things that uh I've heard people going back and being asked for this and another there's a section that we just updated yesterday questions and answer report okay on the it's the first link in our development services tab right that explains what need doesn't need it um yeah you haven't shared that document yeah no the document that I said no no no okay yeah all right we'll come back around on that one yeah I think I think there's with this you know we haven't been issuing NE we we've kind of historically flood plane permits have been a part of the building permit and so this is one of the things that again was brought to our attention working with the state in FEMA that that you know any any construction any any development activity in the flood plane does require a permit and so there's things that we don't require permits for right now uh for instance Flory you know we wouldn't require that is that a development activity in in the flood plane that would be an improvement that would require uh a flood plane commit so I think the the question is that there is a little bit more of a process we have to go through in terms of that that we haven't done in the past and I think what you're talking about addressing that yeah yeah so so so is that development activity those kind of things because this is specific to to undertake any development activity within the scope of the chapter I don't I don't see that again I terminology I don't I don't see development as being changed and floor out I have to research the florid the building Cod there's more than well Florida code specifically excludes stuff like that i' have to look at the what's behind these words to answer that more fully and other stuff further down I was actually G to comment on but while we're here so to me when I read this it seems like we're talking about building something new and then um if it's in a flood plane you have to get the permit even if it's excluded from the okay so when you go to page 111 develop means any man-made change to improved or unimproved real estate including monol into buildings or other structures tanks temporary structures temporary permanent storage equipment or materials mining drudging filling grading Paving excavations drilling operations or any other land disturbing activities so change to improved or unimproved real estate including but not limit to buildings or other structures so you're thinking that encompasses pretty much anything you your W well back to that these are things that you're trying to track that are untractable a lot of these painting painting a room painting the exterior of a building laying side in your yard those are all things that need to be cycle through and cter is what you're saying right not anything outside well if it's F changes if it's fil yeah if it's filed again in in only in the the um a zone right only a or V and the flood flood Hazard area I I struggle with the wording of this and lean to my legal ease over here you know they they they say that they make a very broad State means any manade change improve D improve real estate okay including but not limited to and then they really lifts out some heavy hitter stuff so it almost seems like we're being overly broad but we want to kind of keep it in context of these bigger things like buildings and structures and tanks temperament storage equipment materials it seems like again it says not limited to but I don't know why you would specifically call these things out because if you just leave that first sentence means any man-made change to improve in for Real Estate that covers everything so why do you need to do any other clarification in there again I don't know where the definition originates I don't know if it comes from something else my question maybe it may be coming from an entity that's this is what this definition is going to be and we're adopting that so that's my first caveat I don't know that and is this something actually we're this is our code then we would have flexibility to and and that's what I don't know so I don't know if this if the city created the definition at some point or it was a process that from a state definition so um so that would that's my first thing so a lot but the broader question is what sometimes what you try to do when you're trying to give a definition is you you could just do the the one first sentence but you're trying to give people an idea of what you mean you don't want to not say limited you knowa not limited just to this because there may be something that hasn't been discussed or thought of and you know and you guys have already seen it as soon as you give a specific definition someone's going to find something different that you've intended to include in there but you didn't say it specifically so you want to give them the idea so they understand the intent but not you know tie your hands behind your back and that's exactly my point is the intent here to include flooring and paint and all these mundane things clearly someone says that first but they they come out and they they kind of lead you to believe it's not about that so I would like because this is a Hot Topic and obviously the problem as Dave mentioned is how in the world do you even track this I mean it you know people aren't going to come to the city and say hey can can I paint my house can I paint my room can I are we going to charge people for this now well that's a whole another story it's part of the same story well I mean that's a where the first step is is whether it's free or there's charge to it there's oversight so if it's if it's something that we're going to oversee and we have to be involved in process then you have charges or not or whatever but the first thing is do we need to how we going to ensure this is even followed and it it seems seems it seems overreaching to me I think your first question is is this the definition that the state has said this is the definition if it is that's what we're stuck with and let's clarify that we have to do our best to do our job right okay and I will also point out as we see down I got it highlighted that it also talks about that and it actually talks about what's not in the Florida building code it calls that out too so if if I look at it in context of all that I almost wonder if and we'll get to that so let's let's roll down when I get to that I I'll point that out so if I could real quick that definition pretty much tracks with the definition of development according to FEMA which definition development development thank you and that was under section one this is in their National flood insurance program middle of page okay and that's what I was assuming so the changes that you're seeing today are from fdem they're not from me they're not from Veronica that I know of these are things the States state has recommended to help with the numbers that that Veronica was going over so my guess is a lot of what you see in here that's where it originated but we can obviously verify that it do we have to regurgitate the same information that so they change it we got to go back and change it can't we just make a reference to something else well I think the reference is needed because it duct Tails right back into our community rating system we got to have these definitions we got to say what we're going to do and then we got to verify that we're doing no but if you reference another enti I think why we usually do that we can even sometimes you'll see we reference the building code or some other um Source but we still even statute we represent a stat repres reference a statute but we put the wording in your code is to make it easier for your citizens to go what to do yeah lawyers love going you know look at section B oh no go to look section 152 and go back and forth but you don't want if you can help it to have a citizen continually and the building official or anybody else that comes into your town you know you have someone as their building official now that hasn't been here before he's learning this make it as easy you can for everybody so that's why we do it that way but the problem is as things evolve over time and smaller municipalities or whatever they don't keep up with that because it's it's easy to here if we aren't seem like the only time we should really do anything in here is if we're going to make it more rigid than what's you I just regate the same information because they change that then we got to go out and strike it or change it it's just it's it becomes administrative nightmare but anyway thanks I'd like to make a comment um based partially on this subject I'm a little bit off subject if I could sure so anyway I wanted to discuss this before the meeting but I think it's not only a suggestion I think it's kind of Our obligation uh that we should have a an um new a City of Newport Richie emergency or flood plan handbook for all of our citizens I think it would be beneficial for Matt and Gary and forage police if all of our citizens are on the same page as us and a handbook could get into what to expect with tornado fire flood uh who to who to call how to prepare dos don'ts how permits change under Emergency Management and how you know what like a lot of people don't understand IND probably know turn the power off but you should also turn the water off on your toilets flush them and put a towel in them plug up your toilets and showers so when you have a little bit of a flood could be one or two feet if it's fresh water it's it's a whole different clean up if you got raw sewage in your house and that'll eliminate most of it or all of the sewage in your house if you do a little things like that so a lot of little notes like that as well as contacts what to expect from FEMA some of this stuff here would be good having that handbook so the citizens are prepared for this and they know who to contact have patience don't panic and what we can do for them and what they can do for themselves do and don't during the Emergency Man little different under hurricane newsletter he also well that's kind of a generalization to it that we could do for sure right and and I think everybody in this room citizens as well all of us have ideas through this experience and I'd like to sit with Gary and police department what they can help contri contribute to this that can help them citizens know how to react with them and everything and if we could put something like this together before a hurricane season um I think the citizen would appreciate it I think it would make it easier for all of us we could put a something just for the city contacts and news and don'ts that we we expect from them good point to okay so we skipped ahead to something so I'll go back to 95 96 we all good there 97 we were had a strike out um that was for the look back 98 99 I think now we're CAU so on page 100 just just for an FYI on the look back um the maximum points there were 90 for a fiveyear look back sry well for a look back yeah for five year look back if you have less five you get less than 90 yeah so not giving them no that's correct um and so there was a few changes on M eight so this is where it talks about the um non-conversion stuff the enclosed area elevated buildings so I I know I've asked some questions about the non-conversion and and I have I have concerns again maybe outside of our hands from a f perspective but the conversations I've had you know if I if I elevate my home and I use grant money well then it makes some sense for feema to say okay well in order to we're going to pay 75% via Grant but you have to sign this non-conversion agree you're not going to do anything down here makes sense right but for those folks that let's say maybe I just outright pay to elevate my house and I want to I want to be able to do some things underneath there um this I have to sign a non ver say I won't do that and I have a problem with that um and and I understand why FEMA wants us not to allow that and that is because you know I sell the house and somebody thinks oh it's able to ensure it or whatever and there's probably a gap here it's probably outside of our ability to to to make a change but to me I'll be able to do whatever I want within reason to my property under the understanding that I'm at my own risk right so if I want to finish my downstairs and I want to put an office in for you know it's all garage but I want to put an office in and I can't Ure you know um if I if I lose that in a flood I can't um you know should be restrictions on there I can't get any female assistance for it it's just it's my loss at the end of the day I should be able to do that or anybody else in that situation you'll be able to do with your property certain things um but because there's this tie to insurance and they're wanting to mitigate that they lump everybody into this and so they say okay nobody can do anything in their downstairs when really it should be a little more loose than that I I think and again I don't know what what wiggle room we have to be able to well so you would have to come in and apply for a building permit get a zoning or the flood plane administrator to approve it you can't build you can't put living space in that area well and but why is that again the reason why is because of the insurance risk it's not insurable anyway but if well it's not I think there's a question there it's I tell you right now it's not because I got that scenario and they only cover things at my Bas Bas elevation so that being said what what is what is the reason why you can't do anything when you're downstairs if you aren't being covered for it anyway what's the what's the point if you think about from a from a numbers I mean if we get permit fees for allowing people to do that they it's it's they're buying Lumber and stuff from lows I mean it's it's economic oh adves right again when it all floods and that their own dime if they want it's it's then then they put it out at the curb and we have to pick it up and then we asked FEMA to reimburse us for what we just picked up other words that's a good point there that that cost dispose them for but that's a good point thought that's probably the only thing well I'll tell you in in the meeting today with FEMA they they were you know as related to the the non-conversion you know they they view that correct me if I mistake this but they view that more as an education and awareness piece that it's it's not that important to them whether you have non you know required non-conversion because what they clearly said was you can't do that anyways in that area you can't develop can't build in the flood Hazard area so you know where where you could say that that okay you don't need the non conversion agreement but you still can't do it you can't get a permit to do it right all right so what about all the homes that have already been built are we going back and getting have we collected any non-conversion agreements on any properties some some only when they come in and try to get a build uh do something else to their house and then you ask them for the non-conversion agreement and you won't and if they don't give that then they can't get a permit to put Windows on their second storage right I moratorium the way the code is currently written ignore the red lines so the way the code's current currently written it says for projects it's hard to read without the red lines I know but for projects proposing to enclose areas under elevated building things need to include the non-conversion agreement so time if someone comes in asking to enclose it you can ask for the nonvert well let me start you can ask for anything you want at any time right any of us can but um to get a permit as the code's written right now if you're proposing to enclose areas under elevated buildings you would need to give a non-conversion agreement okay as it's proposed to be changed the proposed change would be anytime you come in for a permit if you're if you're um structure is an elevated building if it is an elevated build if it qualifies is what right no matter what you're asking for you'd be asked for so you you want a permit for your windows you got to sign a non-c conversion agreement that's or I want to put a new garage door in anything anything you want to paint your walls yeah I think that ought to be changed I don't and it's it's because of what we saw after these hurricane right well because you have people that have living space down there so how do have Apartments down so what so let me ask you this so we we put this in place and I know I know people that have this won't say any names because they be mad at me but they come in to replace their air conditioner right they're elevated and we make them sign a nonc conversion agreement based on this code and there's living space down there what does that mean they have to somebody go in there and tear it all out to the studs that's right and that's their responsibility ility if I had a two-story house and I put a bedroom downstairs a living area that's on me and I don't feel that we we should have a Mor torium on any new construction remodels any of that such thing in a disaster declaration uh it should be solely we want to do free permits we don't want to charge for permits that should just be for people that we need to get back into their house in their living area that was flooded and then once that's lifted then they can go back I don't people taking advantage I think it should be lifted after that but should have more tournament any remodels new construction during a disaster declaration we did that right okay no we didn't have a moratorium no but we said there was no permit right right right but he's saying something else yeah remodel like if you have a two house wasn't flooded you oh there three no no permit yeah there has to be damage it was supposed to well I don't think you should have a permit issued period Well time out what if I want to get I need a new roof for my house wait till everybody gets back in their house after the flood but it's raining in my house well that's different no it's not it's you can fix that so I'm confused on what are you saying that because there was a disaster that we just wipe off all permit fees stop no he said if my if his house get damag but mine just no perm I I can't get one because she shouldn't even if you have to pay for you're tying up contractors you're tying up our building department that's not necessary it's not an emergency emergent declaration should be for people that want to get their houses back we don't have we don't have the ability to wave permits we have to we have to okay A lot of people are tying up the building department and contractors and a lot of people weren't able to get those people to help them with their house because they bu for those permits tie them up that's what we're paying those are actually generating money so so coming back to the non conversion right so go ahead with well I I I I don't like I said I I don't like it I don't I don't like the it gets worse from here because then they then they get if you look at the actual document they have the right to come into your property at any time with 24 hours notice but isn't this a theme of reg a theme of it's a theme of request so if we do not have that do we not do we lose our rating completely do we lose what no because it's a request not a requirement well that's what I'm asking I will defer to the experts on the ratings but I believe this is these points in conversation I thought we were talking when we were talking about these that we didn't have them prior to not not and we and we kind of got I'm going to say in trouble but that's not what I mean um we got spoken to that we needed to get these to get a better CRS rating is that is that correct so non-conversion agreements is a higher regulatory standard so that's one of the sections that we discuss where we can acquire those points doing away with it completely we lose those points right so you do acquire points for them but it doesn't mean that you're out of the CRS like Mr coppler has mentioned earlier when we spoke to FEMA it's an educational thing more than anything you anything below the base flood should be nothing but storage open space that's it can you have an enclosed garage with a garage door you can okay but you can't build a closet you can't put a bathroom you can't make it an apartment you can't put a dividing wall can't you can't do anything you can't construction down there 25 years ago we had a no-name storm some of you might not have been here you were and people woke up to kneep water in their house so if you're if you're in a flood zone it could be a life safety issue for those people if a flood comes in like that again those are people in the M that happened in the middle of the night people woke up at 6 o'clock and got out of bed to Knee Deep Water if it comes in fast those people can drowned in those houses this but you're talking about a two-story and what's going to happen to all the one story people anyway same thing well that well that's true but but this we're talking about two stories yes the one stories it could happen to but they're not elevated for whatever reason we're talking about twostory and the non-conversion thing so I mean they're trying to make it a life safety issue to save people's lives this is what the federal government is doing well I mean I could so not I could set up by code I could have an open garage downstairs and I can set up an army cot and sleep in and wake up to Knee Deep Water and drown or whatever so it's not necessarily I mean honestly it's people need to take of themselves if there's an evacuation they need to evacuate and if they want to stay in their property they have the right to do that again we may have to rescue them um we we you know do we how much strong arming do we do to dip into people's ability to uh use their property how they see fit now she did say the No Name ST which nobody expected that was a non-w warning thing so correct so that that was a non-w warning thing but it's still no difference whether you got a two story or whether you got a one story water's coming in yeah the the other other thing that we said was is that even if we don't require these things it ain't like I can come in and and get a billing permit to to say we don't have the non-conversion agreement I can't come and get a building permit to do Jack squat in my lower level right it'd be denied so the really no no even on your house well well no taking this non conversion out say we don't even ask for this it it's not like if we don't ask for it we can do it because we can't do it regardless that's correct right you you cannot do anything in your lower level regards whether you have a nonconversion it seems like this non-conversion is just to tie your signature and to get something on the tax record and on the property Florida codes allow you 300 square feet yeah perent the lower level you can have as living area not necessarily be insured on you but that's what they told a non-conversion like you can't even have shelves that lower level no you can have storage up to two to 300 sare ft they said air conditioning living areas you can have air conditioning or Plumbing or electrical storage electrical is interesting too you can have outlets in your garage I don't know they I don't know they said you could have Outlets they wanted them they wanted them six feet off the ground that's when I was pulled my permit this is all the stuff they told me I might have changed since then but the the the problem we have here is there's not a whole lot we can do whether we like it or not is the problem um I don't like it I think there's a lot of overreach in some of the stuff and that's just stuff we're going to have to take up with with u representative Congress so all right the way it's written today it looks like they're going to request a non-conversion agreement on any on any uh permit for the property on an elevated structure whether it involves the second floor or not or or the garage or the top one yeah is if I don't want to sign the non-conversion do I still get a permit you don't get permit anyway you can't do anything hold on hold on it depends on the so it depends on what the way your codee's written and what you're asking for so if we write it this way the answer is yes if you get a permit to do a air condition roof or whatever until you sign that agreement you get no permit if you chies if you're an elevated structure structure with the proposed language if you're in an elevated structure and you come for a permit for anything that you're allowed to have a permit for you will be asked to sign the non-conversion agreement okay but I say no so then I don't get a get yes if you change the code you can't do anything if we leave it the way it is they're not going to ask you for that because can we ask them and if they refuse to sign it still issue them a permit no yeah you can ask you can ask we could ask nicely for a non-conversion agreement was not required we don't have one on file for you do you mind doing this some people might do it they might not do it again it's an education you have to say it to them in a certain way would you so that you weren't actually tricking them into signing without them realizing what they were doing yes which I can't stand there and do that but yes we would would have to be certain it what is the reason I mean we have it a certain way the way is now what is the reason to do this I believe the recommendation from fdem fdem to do this is to educate people um that they should not have anything on the bottom level because they do and we know they did and they do um and the prior language from my understanding was not implemented so the city did not obtain the non-con conversion agreements when they could have in the past when people closed the elevated areas well if that's if that's Cas trying to catch up with what can we can we can we just say instead of requiring to sign a non-conversion agreement that we provide them with can ask for I didn't know about that just I call non-conversion agreement just when they come in for a permit oh by the way you're elevated and you know you can't you're not supposed to be doing anything on your downstairs thing as a as a public service announcement and there you go well can we go back because that's what the that's what the goal is the goal is not to get somebody to sign I mean this is really this is I don't have a two story house but but if I did I wouldn't I wouldn't want to I would either so I I don't have one but for Dave and other people that do I wouldn't want to sign one of those and and if we just go back to the language that it was originally written in it says for projects proposing to enclose areas under elevated buildings include sign Declaration of land restriction well if you're not proposing to enclose anything under because it's already enclosed it's kind of a moot point that's right that's why why don't we leave it the way it is and then you don't well we're going to have to adjust some other things too because I'm I'm not in favor of this and from what I've heard from other people that were approached with this same thing where they've asked they don't like it either they refuse to sign so what it does is it takes away our rights as Property Owners well that's the thing it doesn't really take away your rights yes it does not really because you can't do it anyway it just it just allows you to get permits even though you're you could be a bad actor you could be doing things down there nobody knows about people do that anyway so so that's that so it's really this this this nonconversion agreement is just you signing something so you can't say I didn't know you and when you sell it the person knows they know when they buy the second the second part which hasn't been mentioned on even even the original language it also gets recorded so people looking to maybe purchase your house or make you know they they know that that's they're also educated about that right that aspect so what do youall want to do strike it I think we back up the truck or strike it yeah what's your own thoughts strike it what do you think I think strike and you're saying strike it you totally no whatever I wouldn't like are you saying strike eight I know it takes points away I apologize minimal minimal points I understand yes it takes the points away from the CRS and we're willing to give that up and that's fine I think we still need to educate the people that they're not supposed to be putting stuff down there the educ I know 90% of our residents not only in portet but up and down the post have gotten stuff under there so it's it's it's the way it is um I say we stri it all together as long as they know that it's not allowed you put that in the handbook we shouldn't we shouldn't not let them put a new AC in because they've got a bom down there for the pool AG that's ridiculous that is so by consensus can we just agree to strike eight all together and not require any non-conversion agreements no matter what the case I'm I'm okay with that good there you go does that work for you guys she's like all the points are the points are disappearing let me ask a question real quick what do do we have a lot of have we been asking before this event for non-conversion agreement no we did not we only used non-conversion for new we only were using non-conversion agreements for new development which is what the current code says started doing it was after we walked around 2 days after the first hurricane hit we found all of the residents we saw the debris it's all on the map all the debris that was out there from people building below Bas flet elevation so all they need to do is FEMA needs to drive around your garage is wide open people in Harbor Point had it people all over town had it right a couple of people I spoke to about it had complete bathrooms bedrooms Apartments air conditioning air conditioning units everything that the City had no idea so FEMA drives through here periodically whether we know it or not that garage door is open and they see that yeah we're at risk we're at a huge risk so reason we started to implement the non-conversion agreements it's not to make people you have to tell us what you're doing no it's for when you go to sell your house and that Realtor doesn't care that there's living habitable space down there and it's not supposed to be there and they sell your house and the next person that comes in the new family that is that that comes to the building department not knowing that that's not supposed to be there because they're in a flood Hazard area they bought it that way they didn't know that has no permits there's electrical issues they want to add to it they want to do more things and then we're telling them you have to gut that out that's not even supposed to be there that was the purpose behind the non-conversion agreement I've had out of we we have issued we've had issued since October 1st 331 hurricane permits 331 permits we have issued and we're missing I think we have had right I yeah um I think we have had maybe under a handful of people above base flood elevation that needed to do the non-conversion of which I myself didn't have any of those handful of people argue about it they said you know what I'm compliant anyway it doesn't matter to me yeah you know the the the most thing that they griped about is the cost that it took them to go record it which was I think $30 at the county so if you have a handful of people versus 3,000 residents or 800 residents in the city right or that are on slab on grade or 500 residents that are out there that that's it's not a matter of nickel and diming or telling people what you can and cannot do but if you're being compliant it's it's it's it's not a problem so from our standpoint we'll do whatever you want if you want to strike it if you want to do it whatever you you know Council decides will follow right but I can't say that I've had a lot of issues or complaints with that other than one or two people that may have mentioned something but I have one more question insurance companies for instance I had a letter from the insurance company unless I replaced my roof which was 19 years old they weren't going to renew me um a guy across from um my son insurance was going to drop him unless he dropped three pine trees and stuff like that if the downstairs is enclosed does and you might not know the answer could they drop an individual because the inside the down stairs is is enclosed oh they drop it they probably just tell you can't it it's not sure I can only same thing to me no you still have insurance no you have insurance until you renew and then you don't have insurance I was not going to have insurance unless I paid $117,000 for a new roof they were going to drop me well right that's because it it has an impact to your actual livable insurable space if it's not insurable space well that's what I'm that that's the question I'm asking I wasn't sure if if that was and she might not know the yes I can we've had residents on both sides of that some insurance companies they they won't insure them once they see it's habitable they make them rip it out they don't do it um and then I've had people where they just have gotten away but they've been living in that home for so long and it the insurance company doesn't come by every year again all this is not City's problem right so it's buyer beware if you're buying property in this area you need to you need to know and it's I would think that it's in the real estate agents code of ethics to disclose these things it's just a flood Hazard area you can't do these things this particular house that I've have listed this shouldn't be here but it is and so it's a bonus if it floods it's on your dime you won't be able to rebuild it I mean that's all that's outside of our scope as as as a regulatory agency in my opinion so I I go back to what we said I think we strike it and you know yeah here here's what I found in the manual regarding the points associated with this um first of all they talk about building enclosures Breakaway walls and all that that's where the majority of the points are in this section uh but it does talk about if regulations required that it that the owner of a building sign a non-conversion agreement that is filed with a D and other property records then 90 points if the community will inspect the enclosed area at least once a year or 60 points if the community is granted the right to inspect the enclosed area at any time or 30 points if the agreement does not mention inspections are you to not strike it no I'm advocating to strike we have consistent strike it we can move on if you I mean we can hatch it out longer but there really don't need if we agree we should strike let's just strike it and move on there's lot of stuff talk about only 8:00 we got my bedtime so any opposed to striking language no okay so that's go all right moving on to item see where I'm changing down to there's 11 110 as a appeal defin to change it takes out or a request for a variance two different things it shouldn't so that's no big deal continue to roll okay 11 is the land restriction the form of the flood plane administrator to have this sign Declaration of land restriction non-conversion agreement [Music] means yeah so that's that's the definition so I assume by the time we're done we're going to be removing every reference to non conversion agreement I will just remove that are we not doing it for new construction build either at all no for no we strict the whole thing not for new construction I would think that's striking the whole thing does that so if you if you want to leave for new construction again I don't see a need for it at all to be honest okay then we're not giv them a permit to do anything anyway they come and say Hey I want to create this bedroom and this bar um no you can't do it is it in the permit process well they can't get a perm down below all the all this nonconversion thing is saying hey's I I am encumbering my property exactly for henceforth that there will never be nonconversion it's s it's already it's already known so all we're doing is putting meat to something that uh doesn't need to be there need to be there we don't we see nothing we know nothing God forbid we got another flood we we the city have to take all that stuff out again oh I promise you time I the next flood that occurs we will have FEMA mobilized here what's what is Fe going to do oh this guy I'm just saying well no no no I disagree with that because you are allowed to have storage in your garage yeah not a square foot which is I got wiped out $115,000 worth of tools in my garage Workshop it's not a living space it's a workshop you got a bathroom there too by the way used to but there were also two twostory places that had bedrooms and all sorts of stuff on their first first floor that was out by the curb that we would pick I don't disagree so then when FEMA drives around or looks around or sends their drones over and sees all that are they not are we going to be stuck with that bill to pick to pay for that which was Bill if we did not permit them to do something and some resident does something how can the city be liable for that because FEMA says you are and that's what happened to Fort Meers after a storm much much later Fort Meers got deemed big and they said you had your photo we had your drone photos we saw we saw water lines we saw um things on the FEMA they we saw pictures of um construction debris we knew we can tell by looking and they're looking years later so they're looking like you know looking back and Fort Meers got is in a world of hurt right now so that's why you see all this we have to have education you have to obviously if you see someone that's doing something that doesn't have a permit code enforcement has to be on them so it's it's I'm not saying but I'm saying that's how it happens because FEMA can come in years later and say you're out of the flood system flood flood manage the flood insurance program because we saw two years ago you didn't do this right we'll put you on probation that's what happened I'm just telling you that's what can happen that is legitimate that's happening right now what they were doing there was they weren't doing their substantial assessments which is a bigger problem I believe they weren't they that was part of it that was a small part A lot of it she is correct so FEMA has they already went out and did drones they already had Drone footage helicopter came through airplane came through we saw it on our our I've got the link through Noah I sent it to all department heads we were able to see clear as day how much trash and debris was at every single location we have they already have this information so today when they were here for two and a half hours they picked five random permits the first thing they did was went to his laptop and we could not Overlook his laptop because he asked us to sit on the other side he pulled up footage of that home of what it look like before the storm during the storm and wanted to see that permit to that address and see what pictures we had in our Forerunner system so they are already aware of what we have so this non-conversion is nothing more than just stating you're not going to do it right that's all that that is we should tell people have living area on two-story house wasn't flooded any debris they want to they need to haul it off themselves in but how are we gonna how are we going to police that in in a storm that just happened you're not going to say I'm going to pick up Lisa but I'm not going to pick up lindas or I'm going to pick you're not going to do that the guys on the street are not going to do that even if they sign the form yeah and they still have the stuff now the then when then when FEA comes in with their drones and they've already signed it so are we off the no and that's what I'm saying it's it's a it's not one thing for FEMA it's going to be all of it if you have the non conversion you're you're helping educate hopefully but that it still doesn't take you off the hook years later that's one part so then FEMA's going to look at okay we see this home did construction oh there's no permit for that well then you should have had code enforcement well we didn't know we don't care F doesn't care you should have had code enforcement do it now how can I do code enforcement two years later with no evidence we don't care do it that's the kind of things that are happening in Fort Meers okay so and other towns so FEA is is is saying okay drive around and I see Eric's house is now twostory and he's got it all enclosed and there's no permits and the code enforcement is supposed to go up to Eric I know you're not that's why I pick yeah because I'm a rule follower me too so they're going to go to him and say now you have to tear it out or and that's and we have to enforce that as a city yes and then they're going to be mad at us because we didn't have them sign a form to let them know that you're not supposed to do that I agree they should they should have known that they should have known it sure that's the first thing they're going to ask yeah do you have a non conversion so let me let me let me ask question oh such a sticky road so I do all that as Linda proposed and I invite Linda over for tea and crumpets in my new I know you do and I invite her over into my newly refinished and and she's her role is a Cod Force officer dumb me I had no idea so she hey you know you can't do this and she goes back to city and she says all this has to be tore out um obviously me as a resident not going to like that probably not going to tear it out probably going to go to the courts and the courts probably side with the city it's going to be tore out so that's just the real and if we do that and and we be that that entity we're supposed to be I don't see how FEMA come down and say we have a responsibility I mean I can't they can't keep me from in secrecy doing things in my downstairs but the fact is it's happening know and it will continue to happen we are not enforcing it I mean again it's hard well this is this isn't enforcing it it's hard to enforce this is education this is different right so this is just right but I'm just I'm going back to your your your example yeah that that again from FEMA standpoint you shouldn't be doing it and and you don't have a permit for it and so City why did you let them do that we didn't we didn't know we definitely did because code enforcement didn't stop them code enforcement should have been going around and saying look I see construction you and let me see what's going on you don't have a permit for that because you can't have a permit for that because it's on the first floor that's where we get I what you're saying yeah I mean FEMA doesn't care whether you have the Staffing to do it they don't care whether you have the will we should you should because it's not allowed and and that's War for all the citizens so you can get into their house and find out what they did Dave's over there building at midnight on a Saturday night he knowe enforc not out it's hard to do so think of it again so I I think the the powers above recognize that very point that you know you you it's hard to do except when you have a natural disaster when it's all laid out bear you see it and that's when they come in and say okay we'll grant you that that you know that was done under the cover of the night and you couldn't do anything about it and we know that you're not going to go get a search warrant for every every two story uh property to do that but now now you know you know when the the debris that's out front is a lot of drywall in a two-story home that nothing should be drywalled in the first story don't put it outside see I think that's probably what this does this gives I I would think if this went to went to the court somebody complaining about that and they you got them by the coonies if they sign an agree I'm not going to do it they did it then it's you know but if that's not there who knows how that goes down I'm just afraid the only the only reason I hesitate is I don't want all the residents to lose the ability to buy the flood insurance sure and that's where that that's that's and that's the end result that could potentially happen well none of us want that I I I understand that but they have the ability Fort Myers is going through this now because they didn't enforce the the the below flood claim thing because they didn't enforce it and by us doing this by us look turning the other cheek are we well I don't say we're turn Che we're just we're just not getting we're just not getting the points relative to we're not we're we're we're foregoing their suggestion on the way and is way I look at it and I was not advocating one way or the other about the non-con conversion I'm just trying to explain that it's it's from from FEMA's perspective it's all of it it's all these pieces and there's a lot of expectation especially now that it's like like Matt said this has happened everyone knows they look for excuse not to pay you know I would even say as we fast forward into the future I wonder how much female is going to be there to be honest to they're not going to keep bailing people out anyway I mean it's there's a new sheriff in town yeah so you know I one thing they did for me I didn't have flood insurance so they gave me flood insurance they gave it to you for years2 S three years yeah but then that property has to always have flood insurance continue with it well that we'll see then but right now technically yes but no I can continue and it's it's not that expensive but they don't it's limited coverage too too which is fine but it's at least I keep my homeowners so well again we just need to say what we're going to do here I'll repeat where I'm at on it I tried to keep my hands out of people's business best I can unless I need to be in there so and that's we can't go into people's houses that's the problem with the enforcement but I will say if the city goes by and sees if they know they're going to do this stuff to their bottom floor we don't know about it fine but don't put it out in front of your house it off so we don't see it if we see it we will act on it that's exactly if we if we see it we'll act on it if you drive by you see me working on my my enclosed thing down there red tag me and take me to the B you can put it in front of his house he's cool with it y puty every one story house there you go big old pile I had a record pile for did that's F I did had to record and you know the funny thing is even if it's just storage you're going to have all that storage out front anyway the only thing you're not going to have is drywall and maybe a toilet doesn't matter put it up everything else that you have down there stored which you can have down there is GNA be on the curve so let's just unless burn is not strike it let's just strike it move on make it go away and we'll uh we'll that's not that's not a that's not a ticket for people to do things they shouldn't do they shouldn't do the things they shouldn't do and if we catch them we will prosecute them full stand of law that's the way I look at it yes a fine and I tell you this lady is the one to do it that's right fine they bring me the case okay okay to move on I've been ready I'm try Okay uh 117 115 actually has substantial Improvement stuff uh taking so this is removing the one year cost that's what I wanted to say this um St changing it from 50 to some other number is what was it was was 50 but when one of our meetings when this was originally discussed you guys agreed and I don't remember exactly who was here at that point I think we've changed in but it was um discussed you down 45 49 and this was brought up I remember I asked the question and nobody could come up with an answer if we move it to 45 or 40 I think is what Mike had proposed didn't know what the impacts we going to be well according to the manual it states 20 points if the regulatory threshold for determining a building is substantially improved or substantially damages less than 50% so if you make it 49 then you get extra 29 20 points if you make it 45 you get extra 20 points walls determines of the percentage of what it cost no I'll tell you for 20 points I leave it 50 yeah all that's doing is taking people's ability to refix their home right and that was the point I wanted to make why dive into these things that have low return let's look at the areas that we can get high return right we're not 50% we've left it okay so the only thing we propos to here is remove the look back period one year so there's no look back period right and I think that's a good that's a good effort y few things on that that we probably need to discuss obviously what on the look back well so we remove that look back there was some conversation about retroactivity and not available no no look back that means each individual vent stands on its own that's correct now that means a roof is separate from Windows is separate from floor yes they done different times well it could be in the same year we had to aggregate those together now we you take that away if you take that away it's B on every event yeah if I have a hurricane tomorrow today and I lose my roof and I fix it it's as long as it's not 50% as long as it's less than 50% of my assessed value and then a week later got for bit another hurricane comes through you got another 50% of your assessed value so you want to keep dumping money into that you dump money put money into it invest money into it free will great thing we'll lose points on that agreed we're gonna make them up somewhere else um the I think it was what did I say it was um the look back period that was cumulative LW that's 90 points well if you're five years we're not there we're getting less than 90 points because we're only at one year so we move this probably minimal yeah just the free board change alone where to the positive the the question I have about this with no look back we have a my house gets flooded um I'm at 65% I say okay I want to not do some of these things I'm just going to permit my 50% to get that done and then then I come back and do the other 15% on 7 permit that's the that's where Fe has a problem because you can you can stream these lot now I I don't know if because obviously what we're what we're thinking is we don't want to have somebody that replaced their roof six months ago starting out with $50,000 towards their 50% that's what we're trying to avoid here and I believe me that makes a lot of sense but in the fact where it is a house that's destroyed um we don't want to be a or do again I don't I don't particularly care again I don't like to to I don't want to see anybody lose their home so anything that we can do to prevent that I'm all for it well with the 50% I believe you guys have a little more calcul with the 50 with the AGG with the cumulative you have a little a lot more work to do to go back and see that things add up right without that each in event stands on its own so what I was getting to is if we don't have the year look back but for an event there's some teeth into where you can't say I'm GNA do my roof close that out now I'm going to do my drywall there has to be a substantial assessment right so that so that's gonna that's gonna so that would control that stringing of permits I would guess okay so so I don't think FEA should have a problem with that because like right now you don't want to put a roof on in April season right that's a great idea hold off on that do not put that roof on in right um and so the other the other aspect of this that I want to bring up and I hope I haven't lost it um boy it's a great thought too um up so we talked about stream permits the um walk away actually this we could do that it's at 8 o'cl we could take a quick break I was going to do that anyway there's a term circle around yeah what why don't we take a quick five minute bio break and then we'll come back so you can just because and hope I Remember by then just because you can't remember what you wanted to say you can start the clock [Music] [Music] got the wine cooler that's so so I guess in the in the in the long run we got an effective change e for for for e e sorry um in substantial Improvement it it makes reference to these um however include any project for improvement of a building required to correct existing Health sanit sanitary or safety code violations identified by the building is on official and that are minimum necessary to ensure safe living conditions those those are not included in substantial Improvement and so I I'm wondering if I if my house floods right and in order to obviously make it sanitary and and all that I need to tear my drywall off and and take care of the mold and all that it seems to me and I don't know if this is our code or if this is coming from female it seems to me those type of improvements shouldn't even go into that calculation I just wondered about that because should go into calculation term substantial Improvement does not however include any project for improvement of a building required to correct existing Health sanitary or safety Cod violation so when my house floods that's definitely a sanitary and health issue if I don't take care of bait the mold and do all that so this tells me that and it further up tells that uh if the structure has sustained substantial damage any repairs are considered substantial Improvement regardless of the actual work performed and then it goes on to tell us that substantial Improvement if I'm bringing if I'm taking care of existing Health sanitary safety code violations to me those should be backed out of that calculation that's what it says it says does not says substantial Improvement does not however include any project for improvement of the building required so it's not included in that so he should not so if I fix my drywall bake the mold muck all that out put that back together that should be zero right well fix my electric safety issu because it's zero all that stuff is drywall is consider well in order to bait the mold you have to pull out the drywall well but it's it's so so an improvement to correct an existing Health sanitary or Safety Code and I don't have that list of what that is um but it is defined somewhere is my guess and it would be more like your sewer line is busted your sewer pipes are clogged your water line is busted or I think that's what that's referring to what does legal say so it's a little vague because got it with Matt i' have to find out if there's within the building code if there are some specific definition for what's in there let's let's look into that yeah I hate to make a decision one way the other well no I point that out because I want to make sure because when I when I read something like this I'm thinking you know is the intent here to to be a land grab which people are accusing government of or is it you ought to be able to put your house back together but you know you can't substantially improve it past 50% because you know you but if you if you're just doing the bare minimum to get it back livable and Abate these sanitary and safety code violations you know maybe that's that helps in that c keep that calculation lower because those things have to be done anyway it seems like it's there for a reason I'd like to know why and I'd like to know why it's and the one brushed off like it didn't exist because it seems to me that that's telling us something there that those things shouldn't be just saying drywall I'm saying if my house floods right the flood waterers a baate I can't live in it like that because the drywall saturated mold's growing it poses an existing Health sanitary issue and by this definition it substantial Improvement which is is is basically the same as substantial damage because it says right above that for this purpose during a if a structure has sustained substantial damage then the term substantial Improvement is this and those things shouldn't go against you that's why I read it I mean well using that definition you can say that about the floor about the electric about everything yeah the combination of of those two so the substantial damage means restoring it to its pre- damage condition right so let's say you had a home that again I'll use the you have a sewer line issue you have to replace a sewer line so pre- storm you have a sewer line issue then you have the damage right and so that that count yeah because that's a you know you probably could make the the uh the argument because again those terms you know electricity not have electricity your home you know you don't have electricity for the storm now after the storm you know that wouldn't count towards you know what damage is or Improvement so you're saying this is referencing stuff before the event yeah I don't read yeah I don't read it like that I I see your point and I when it said correct existing Health what's existing mean pre-existing or existing existing is in right now the storm exactly well didn't say before the storm well we ought to say that maybe we should again I don't know this taken from if this is something copied down from another thing or whatever but I'd be interested to look and see what's going on here because that's it seems like we need to pay attention to that so that was the other thing I was going to to bring up so as I roll down to 17 more the non conver stuff all this come out obviously um then you got the building elevations that does that that stays right you want to go you're oh so yeah now's the time to talk about the two to the three so what's y'all's thoughts on on that and that's only new construction right new construction or if you lift or if you lift or if you have an existing structure that's damaged and you have to bring it up to yeah now just just to clarify let's say Dave's elevated structure is one foot above base elevation because that's what base the current code was when he elevated it if we change that to two or three the only time that would that even affect so let's say that we have an event another hurricane that damages him at that point does he have to raise his house probably not right it would if you know if it got no want to anymore but if it got if it was substantially damaged and he had to start over he would he had to rebuild it he had to if he was just had to fix the roof and repair it repair some windows then no he won it's not over 50% then you yeah well actually the 50% for elevated homes it doesn't matter he can put gazillions of dollars in there nobody can stop him so the question is is there any point if we change this that existed lifting CS would have to raise that additional two and if answer is no then i' let's go to three only if there's a change in the flood plane yeah and that could happen someday yeah and I don't you has there been any analysis done on the two I mean we don't want to get too tall buildings either again I think like I said before when people raise them I think they're they're up there anyway because they're making that garage space or whatever the only people this would impact is they they want to raise it just a bare amount to get them by they're going have to do another two feet but I think if you're going to put the cost into that and I think this actually helps from a grant perspective because the grant will cover what you have to do and so if we're 3 feet the grant is helping pay for that additional Headroom for your garage space too so I think it's a a win-win from a CRS perspective I mean the the the sea level is rising so it certainly is not going to it'll help people it'll be ahead the curve yeah while you're doing it throw another level block on it and we'll get some points for it yeah I think three people consensus three as long as it doesn't financially affect people like signant I I don't know the answer to that question yeah it's like say it's really just another level of block so it's andboard is a big category there's up to 500 points there well 300's what we get 100 now 300 300 for 300 3 feet 300 points at three feet what's the other two for I wonder you say it was 500 yeah that's um let's see that's section 22 also keep in mind that if you're going to raise the the base FL ele or the um the freeboard the building height within our zoning districts are 40 fet so if you're going to move that that's something that we may want to address is look at that Building height I'm just saying absolutely because it's going to make it sometimes a little bit difficult if they're 10 feet and you're going up higher we need do that in lock step because we don't want to get situation where made note okay perfect might to bring that back for another meeting but good point thank you you're welcome what was that um before we move on from there yeah with that freeboard uh from what I'm seeing in the example there's there's also no fill restrictions and Prof F prohibited so these are all things that enter into the equation there's it's AE is allowed if you're in a Zone yeah if you're in a flood zone AE you can bring Phill if you're in a ve zone or within a limo you cannot bring Phil so that mean you have to go on Pierce right a you can B you can't correct yeah that I talk about that was a v now a I think see see from from this example here it says a one foot above uh freeboard no fill restrictions it's 100 points two fet is 225 3 ft is 375 and there's a no fill restriction that means you don't you can put fill in and then there's compensatory storage required I don't know what that means you got to store the water on your property probably right and and then you could get up to four 440 you know if you're storing some of that water in Fr anyway we can move on we're going to look at all that at a separate meeting right yeah yeah so the a lot of red line stuff here I think it's all it's talking about can't flood proof dry flood that's all added at dry flood proofing just keep recomendations just keep your house from making a boat so it pops up and floats away I guess right and then that's like Tampa General did put that flood barrier around their building well is that is that what they did there is that considered dry flood prooof I think dry flood proof treating the home so that if you do something outside the water is just going to go around I don't think that counts no what it does is you have a dry facility Well no but if it once it gets past that barrier the house it gets in your house your house is going to float away I think just another way of doing the same thing no I disagree with that it's if you if you drive flood proof proof your house the static pressure from the water will potentially lift your house and move it if you just put something around it that goes over the barrier it's still gonna get serves the same purpose though doesn't it serves purpose but it's very different application yeah Drive flood PL Dy flood proofing is sealing the building's exterior right to not allow the water in right now if you put a Barry up around that's different that's not dry that's considered dry FL it's not is that dry FL proofing okay okay I looked it up because I did too and that's the example that they used really anyway so we might be able to do something along those mitigation things I don't know but question the um yeah the thing I did highlight here under five um it says the a b the interior portion of such enclosed area shall not be partitioned or finished in separate rooms except for stairs ramps and elevators unless the partition is required by fire code and then B where perimeter walls are permitted the limitation on partitions does not apply to low bearing walls interor again this is defining what kind of walls you can have down in that area I'm assuming this language is pulled right out of somewhere or is this is this our language this was given to us by fdem okay there's a lot of elevators in houses those are okay they're allow um that's the only thing I had on that so anybody else rolling on down I don't see anything else until we get to 122 and we we had some permanent placement of recreational vehicles so this was recommendation by FD FD e m the way it was it says the same thing this just says it straightforward right no permanent placement no permanent placement what I had highlight is actually above that under temporary placement because it says and this is an or so it's not both of them so one be on the site for for fewer than 180 consecutive days or which tells me that it could be there longer if it's fully licensed and ready for Highway use which means recreational vehicle or Park Model is on Wheels jacket system so basically if you're licensed and you're you can pull it off and put it on the highway it can exceed that 180 days and I don't know how long that what's temporary what's permanent and I don't know if there's another code out there that defines that but this is this is FEMA's language I remember when we did it um read it no you can't put porches and stuff on it but you still can't live in it right well no you can no you can live in it while you're doing the construction of your house right but if you're not doing construction of your house you can't live in it correct correct sounds like you had some experience with that kind kind of got a campgr my back code States the same thing section 109 424 States the same thing for temporary placement that's straight from FEMA what we have is what FEMA has so yes it's it's an ore and there's no limit on Section B so Temporaries just not per so and and sorry sanction two and again there's there's I have mixed feelings about that whole thing and parking boats and trailers and all that but for the for whatever our intent is here this seems like to me once a if I read it correctly once a tempor once a uh once the city declares a local state of emergency pursu C to orance at that time you can put a thing on there as long as this road ready can it go into perpetuity no no what be permanent can't be permanent but the intent is that there's going to be times when it takes construction longer than right 180 days so this gives flexibility for the building official to say okay I understand it's going to take you seven months to get back into home you can keep it for seven months and not be restricted to six as long as it meets these qualifications but it's not permanent so it can't be imp perpetuity well perpetuity is a a bad word because it can't be permanent it's only there because of the emergency right when the emergency stops then it starts the counter but see it doesn't say that that's the thing so that's well again it goes back to it has to be tied to something related to the emergency though which that's what the so you do it until the the state right but once it happens it's my right that triggers it and once it's in there the intent is once once you're Emer once you once you don't need that anymore you're you need to move it well who determines that building official we're good here from a language perspective that's because to me it says like once once we allow it there's really no there's nothing that says that once your bilding permits satisfied or your whatever it just it just says you know you're good as long as you can move it at that point that's why I bring that up okay if everybody's good with I'm good uh moving on to I don't see anything else for a while that's it for that one anything else on first read ORD number 25711 this will be a first reading again because you made substantial changes so you don't I mean you can as a consensus tell me to make the changes you've made but this is coming back okay yeah so once those changes are made then he goes back to State too to just make them aware so that they can review them look at them and okay um any further discussion on that anyone from the public like to comment all right they have comments not about that yeah comments must be confined to these uh actions okay so next up um some was somewh of a continuation of that just a little different area is item number six first re War number 25- 712 amending articles 1 two and oh I guess we don't need to vote on five do we since we do we need approve with those substantial changes just the consensus for me to make the changes and we'll move okay yeah we're good make sure we're get there so six first re orders number 25712 meing articles one two and five of chapter 10 of the city rep which you cify codes I'll pass that to Mr Copler yeah I refer back to my earlier comments which were a lot earlier um that these are effectively taking a section that was in uh 110 moving to 109 so what you're seeing mostly in 110 is the removal of of those items that moved to 10 so did um is there anything on this that somebody wants to bring up I've got a couple things let me see if it's relevant there's a couple additions in there no big deal 142 takes out a praise value um and there's a market value that basically because in our code it praise value is 120% of cess value um and so the market value now is based on an appraisal or whatever that percentage is that the appraisers office gives us this 15% yeah that that language was moved well actually it's existing language in 109 but the reference here is relevant because we've taken out the subsequent uh information that that ties to so you don't need it right and the question I had was is given what we're in the thick of our substantial damage on and we're using 115% of the value based on our code should we be using 120% as it exists today or is this something that we can't do something less than what the the Count's doing or whatever like the market you mean because the market ad just was 15% and that's what we're using right but our code says 120 that's what well we're not using that anymore that's gone that's struck well it's not struck yet well it will be not yet but not yet so all these things that are in should be 120% right I don't know that if there's somebody on the line it could be a problem well but it also could be the that's updated just say I've already talked to Veronica about this they're gonna go back and look at that to see if there is yeah and that's yes that's a great idea and that may be outdated language there that we shouldn't even have in there that which I don't know right I mean if the property appraiser you know they collectively are doing something different than that most likely that is outdated that would be my guest but I don't know that and I only I want to bring it everybody's attention so that we make sure that whatever we need to do we do okay on it cu if we actually can be doing 120 and there's somebody teetering on the line losing their home or not because that 5% that 5% helps them sounds like they need to take advantage of that 120 while it's still there that being said I will move on was it the greater of appraise value or 115 no just 12 I mean if you have an appraisal that comes in higher right right praise still is controlling back and then it's not anymore I mean with with the changes it would not be I mean currently the term prays value but when when you go to the new language in 109 it's market value and it it references a certified appraisal it it right and the difference is here it talks about appraise value in 109 the new 109 is talking about market value so it's the same concept just in different words right constructure still there get get an independent appraisal still um which what you see in 144 there's a market value and it defines it in section 109 283 of our code which that's what he was talking about and if you go down there's uh on 145 um this is um has to do with I guess yeah the the look back and all that removing that to make that same so nothing nothing new there some of that move those definitions moveed to the 109 as well right yes so so this again these are recommendations by FEMA what you're looking here at here and the things that are relevant that need to go to 109 have been proposed in 109 and the language has been taken out of chapter 10 yeah got so a lot of lot of stuff was removed on those three pages and then um that's it the 51 under stop work orders I had um the this is what I was talking about earlier so it says upon notice from the building Zone official work on any building structure electrical gas mechanical or plumbing system that is being done contrary to the provisions of the Florida building code or in a dangerous unsafe manner shall immediately cease so if I'm doing flooring or I'm painting or I'm doing other things that that the Florida building code doesn't regulate permits for even though especially flood Hazard area does what this tell me is is that you know maybe an issue there I gotta get perm whatever but can we stop work order because this tells me that you can't stop work order if it come if it's not something that the flil code governs but understand it's two different things okay that work that isn't covered under the building code for instance FL we use that um in in a flood haard area is related to the flood permit flood plane permit not the building code so two different two different sections and that goes back to the whole development what it is what includes yeah it you know we would we' probably issue a stop work order if we found you doing that just to notify that you shouldn't be doing that but really the next step and this was something that femo talking about is take the court just go right to court that we would again probably do the noov first it could be a stop work order or it could be the noov okay uh the moving down 153 um IND division four permits I had demolish and I'm thinking it's talking about demolish from a demolish whole property because I know we don't need permits to demo pull out drywall we didn't need permits to muck out stuff right part of your substantial damage but we don't per I don't need permit come and say I'm ripping my drywall out and all that but it states here it's required if demolish but I'm thinking it the intent here is demolish the whole structure not not that's my question is I'm assuming that too yeah you're you're on 155 page 153 section A under application it says any other authorized agent or contractor who desires to construct enlarge alter repair move demolish or change YY or blah blah B need permit but we weren't requiring permits for the yeah this this is the building small demo stuff related to the building code that's right but under section two down there uh the installation of any manufactured residential storage shed less than 100 square feet perit not required but because if it's a special flood has area they would be but I know that our exactly right so does that need to along so you need a permit for anything over 100 square feet don't think matters because we're all special flood head anyway and everything need permanence so but case this is greater than and what the point of the changes were was trying to put all the blood azard stuff into one area and so this again was doing two different things it was doing the flood flood plane as well as regular building um moving on down I don't see anything else red Lin I don't think I had anything pointed out oh there's okay 164 there's a big change affidavits I will tell you that fdm recommended this change because this is now appropriately tracking the Florida building code it was not correct before okay any heart with that assuming not okay and then page 170 under Item B work commencing before permit issuance there's a line that was added any person who violates section so subject to deposition fins cost it's it wasn't it's not new it just wasn't in there they were already they were subject to to that still class six violation always same yeah okay and then [Music] I'm not seeing anything here's okay 184 this is just talking about house numbers and this again this this actually was um our prior building official recommended this change because this is now in line with the Florida building code okay if on that just because it requires I guess the street address to be four inches four inch numbers or whatever if somebody has three inch numbers what what's that mean you gotta have change them Tak them jail F that means they're not compliant with the Florida building code and that's up to the building official was that something are we making a change to that because do we like do they need to change it right now because they were three inches in height by two inches before looks like so this would be like a grandfather in type thing I just want to make sure that I building official time to go drive around look for no I'm I'm teasing you no as they move forward they need to I think it was more yeah okay no issue there these are long we're done yes that's unless anybody sees anything else and I know we didn't do any changes to that I was going to recommend if we just leave it they stay together sure um because you're taking things out of one out out of 10 that are going to go in 109 but if we take them out of 10 before we get them into 109 so I think it's better if they just you motion to table that um yeah that'd be good keep them together can I get motion table this so this so basically if we got to do a first reading on the other one again because substantial change to it um we're just going to table this one so at the same time we'll do this one otherwise we'll have a second reading of this one and the first reading of the other one is keep no that's so is that a motion yes that's a motion okay is there a second second okay anyone comment vote all in favor I say hi hi hi opposed I number six is tabled uh yeah is there any way we can our move that up he's eight n so that he doesn't have to sit through another hour and a half yeah we need do we a motion so I motion to move eight n up to now and then s to follow second motion second any for discussion public that comment put a vote all in favor by saying I I post most carries so we're g to we're going to bring you up Sir because I know you probably not interested in hearing any more of our interesting conversations um so we're gon to roll right to item number eight approval of McKim and Creed scope of work for Engineering Services for the planning and design of a poble water plant facility passive mcop for introduction so as you're aware uh we uh are in line to uh get $4.25 million uh from the Clean Water State revolving fund uh to cover the cost of plan Des uh for a new portable water plant facility um we went out to bid as you're aware and uh selected um Kim Creed to handle that work for us and they prepared the uh statement or excuse me the scope of work and uh we are looking for approval of that so we can uh get to the final uh contract get that sign and get him going okay and he's got a presentation or I don't think you have a presentation so questions I guess we would take 100,000 off he had a presentation um yeah he's here in case there's any questions and plus the next the next item that we're g to talk about okay so just and and I'm sure you do this but just just make sure obviously if we if we have people that are not know here they're supporting action we could have those at the very top of the agenda to get them if it's possible realiz it's G be that long yeah just put them first always better I guess I hate hate wait but I appreciate you being here um and then so I'll open that up for discussion and our motion is there this is for approval for scope of work I guess right okay so motion discussion I'll make a motion to approve uh scope of work work with K McKim and Creed for Engineering Services for the plan of design of pable water plant facility second I get to L that a second so uh any further discussion anyone public I comment any put to vote all in favor I saying I I opposed motion carries item number nine adoption of fail's work plan for the planning and design of potable water plant plant facility pass it Mr C for introduction so as a part of uh everything we need to do to uh get to the final uh application for the uh $4.25 million we have to put together a facilities work plan that uh of course our selected uh Consultants before you have the contract uh did a lot of work to put together so um what you have in front of you is the proposed uh work plan and and it's okay if you come maybe just give a little overview of what the work plan is and why it's important please Phil um hi I'm Phil lock from McKim and Creed project manager it's good to be here uh the facilities work plan is a requirement of the um FD State revolving fund program um there's a checklist with very clear yeah hold it down turn screen there it is okay all right that better okay the facilities plan is uh like I said there's there's uh um there's guidelines uh to follow checklists and it basically goes through the main requirement of the work plan is to compare three Alternatives one is a do nothing alternative and then two other Alternatives um that would aim to address the the drinking water um you know issues so uh the bottom line is we went through the facilities plan did these comparisons and we have recommended a reverse osmosis treatment facility um and uh you know the facilities plan goes through environmental um it goes through the need for the project uh there's cost estimates for the different Alternatives and you know kind of developing pros and cons and in this case here there was just one alternative ative that would meet all the requirements the regulatory requirements um so that's pretty much a brief summary I'm happy to answer any kind of questions any questions there a motion motion to approve the facilities there a there a resolution attached to this motion to approve resolution 25 read it I you don't have to but I can go read by time Okay resolution 25-1 a resolution of the city of Port Richie Florida relating to the Florida Department of Environmental Protection State revolving fund Loan program providing for the adoption of a water supply facilities work plan for the implementation of design and construction of a reverse osmosis drinking water treatment facility facility providing for conflict providing for separability and providing for an effective date motion to approve point D1 second second L second so motion second any further discussion anyone public I comment hands the brand for a vote all in favor signify by saying I I oppos motion carries thank you apprciate stay just for your information we'll be bringing back I think at the next meeting the loan documents we have to get a resolution we have to do yes we have a resolution yeah that'll be coming back to you perfect thank you and I you beer soft drink whatever you let me know maybe two probably two maybe a case actually long I think somebody mentioned bourbon okay so that uh changes that uh concludes the agenda change so now we're going back up to item number seven first reading of ordinances to amend the charter of the city of Port Richie uh I'll pass it Mr C for introduction so uh Council met at a special meeting on December 17th uh to review the proposed changes to the city's chartered off by the city clerk and City attorney based upon the discussions at the meeting the attached ordinances implement the wishes of city council and so to get these obviously on the April pallot we need to have it to uh the uh elections board I think it's the second or third of February so we will need to do reading today first reading and then on the 28th we'll need to do the second reading yeah action each ordinance separately okay yes so that being said I'll pass it the first reading of the 25713 if I can before we that part there was a couple things that we discussed um when we talked about the charter amendments that you asked questions about that I have answers for um you asked about if um the Quorum had to still be all in person as as of the latest attorney general opinion yes it cannot be virtual um to get your Quorum so that needs to stay the same we don't have any ability to state that that's not the Attorney General is saying don't touch it until there's a state statute it lets it happen are you're in the state of emergency which is what we was you know previously when we were do still not that state of emergency different one um state of emergency where on the governor declares the quum can be met by technology be very clear you can still be we can still be attended by virtually it can't count as the Quorum and your vote counts and everything just like here but we got have three sen here um the other one was about passing the gavel that is a code thing now Charter thing so if you want to address that at a different time we that for violence yeah okay so now to ordinance number 25713 an ordinance of the city of Port Richie Florida submitting to the electors of the city of Port Richie a proposed amendment to City Charter section 2.01 composition eligibility requirements modifying the requirements for candidates and providing for an effective date motion to approve ordinance 2571 second motion second for discussion um make sure yeah I don't have anything on there we that one just we kind of we removed the uh the age and sex I think from there okay anyone public got comment see bring back for vote all in favor 65 saying I I oppos motion carries if you can read by title the next one ordinance number 25714 an ordinance of the city of Port Richie Florida submitting to the electors of the city of Port Richie a proposed amendment to City Charter sections 2.02 c 2.02 d 2.05 A1 and 4.06 e to allow terms of office to commence on the 4th Tuesday in April and providing for an effective date okay motion discussion I do have a question on section three at the bottom of 215 um this basically states that it's on the 4th Tuesday in April let's say there's some conflict and somebody had travel plans what whatever the case may be there's no there's no ability for us to reschedule that we're locked into that right so how and what happens if um somebody gets elected in April and they had a Cru everyone beond that just had to be during that time frame or they visit a family or or death of a family or whatever whatever would cause them not to be able to be swore in and participate in that is there facility for us to be able to reschedule that with a vote of coun yes I don't think that it's not worded in here but that mean things happen and you can we don't need to say anything that okay that was my only question yeah I think you're fine okay motion discuss to approve 25714 second motion second for discussion any public comment see bring for vote all in favor say saying I I opposed yes I think so yeah you y Carri uh next up pass ask for her reading ordinance number 25715 an ordinance the city of Port Richie Florida submitting to the electors of the city of Port Richie a proposed amendment to City Charter section 2.03 vacancies for fure of office filling of vacancies and extraordinary vacancies to require a vote by city council to excuse the council person's absence and providing for an effective date yeah and the motion or discussion and I'll just open with so we we talked a little bit about this and this is a language we talked about but I just wanted to clarify once this gets adopted potentially adopted in April is it that every from a procedure standpoint and I don't think it need to say till here maybe we need to divide that procedure but um I guess if let's say that the next say this meeting Bob wasn't here and he called him because he was on vacation whatever are we to action that Bob's not here motion to excuse him so it happen so we do it every meeting if we have a vacancy yes and if it's unexpected you know let's say on the way here Bob got sick and turn around and went home we didn't realize it the next meeting you can bring that up retroactively that we excuse him from the last meeting to that's something we've not done in the past this because as going forward once this if it's potentially adopted by the public then we'll need to make sure we have a section to excuse absences as needed motion to approve ordinance number 25-75 second have motion second further discussion anyone public i' comment s hands and BR for a vote all in favor signify by saying I I opposed motion carries uh next up you read by title ordinance number 25716 and ordinance of the city of Port Richie Florida submitting to the electors of the city of Port Richie a proposed amendment to City CH to the city Charter to delete subsection B7 of section 2.03 vacancies forfeiture of office filling of vacancies and extraordinary vacancies is inconsistent with laws of Florida and providing for an effective date so open up for motion discussion again on this I don't necessar recall this particular why we're taking this out but um Hippa is why we were taking it out this is a this is a way let's say for use you someone to Forfeit their office that you decide they're they've been declared disabled unable to perform their duties and they don't want to voluntarily leave you're not going to be able to publicly provide that documentation from phans evaluation is protected information if you if someone made the allegation and you wanted to come in and go no no look my doctor said I'm fine that's you but this is contemplating that you aren't able to have that conversation and that somehow we're going to get a document from a physician to say you're not so I guess in a case where you would have somebody that was midle incapacitated or whatever you wouldn't well you wouldn't excuse them for four times in 12 months and they're off they're off Council if that passes so we wouldn't say yes there's but if they're here I guess we'd have to get up for something else you'll figure something out you you're not going to not that it' be a issue but I'm just curious there there's other Provisions that you'll fall under CU I worry about Dave sometimes you and you you're welcome to leave it and of course the the um the electorate may not remove it um but it's gonna you based on what you're saying HP never be able to do this let's say I got a medical record about you I can't come in here and share it unless you give me consent to do that okay there a motion motion to approve ordinance number 25 I figured you'd be the one to make that motion I can't second that motion second any for discussion anyone public I comment hands bring back for vote all in favor signify by saying I I opposed motion carries if you read next by title orance number 25717 an ordinance of the city of Port Richie Florida submitting to the electors of the city of Port Richie proposed amendment to the city Charter section 2.03 vacancies forfeiture of office filling of vacancies and extraordinary vacancies to modify the process by which a vacancy on Council is addressed and delete section 2- 03d as it is incorporated into amended section 2.03 C and providing for an effective date okay motion or discussion and I will comment here that uh this was motion to approve yes second hold that thought uh so the uh I we had a long discussion about this and I believe you did a very good job of capturing exactly what so said I had to call Matt and talk through it again yeah so just to clarify I'm reading this correctly um I think is there that's all here so we a vacancy happens once we appoint um the next regular election now that regular election do that next our regular election April or is that next available like November election I went by well I was going by your Charter that calls your elections regular elections Lang so basic so this would be the following April election regular election if that's what it is um and we can add regular Municipal I mean that's if that's confusing to people that's what it's that's the intent is it will be your next you the city's next regular election and then talks about if you get a lot of vacancies or whatever and it's just me and Linda left um I know so when we talk about and I'm curious about this from other boards of committees as well if you if you're down to two the majority vote is two right so you basic have to be unanimous to to make it for the on because yes so anytime you're on an even number you can't have even Ste Somebody's gotta agree but you and Lind will get along to L meia we have many things in common we do I think for that point you can disappoint get right uh the other thing I had pointed out here is language to call special if desired so again the language is exactly we wanted do we want to have the ability by vote of the council to speed that process up so for example April comes um someone's elected and God forbid they hit by bus and so it's a whole year of appointment do we want the ability to be able to give that back to the people to put in there because what we're saying here is we basically appoint and that they're going to fill it for a year well that's what we just one things in the previous one we just said that the way it is what do you mean we'll take Lisa because she just happened we just said that she wouldn't have to go she was appointed oh in her case yes over year and a half we had that discussion last time we had that that's the that's we had to hold a special election for her in November because we had to hold a special election we couldn't hold a special election at the same time as the regular so she couldn't wait to ideally in this if this was in place she wouldn't had to run in November she would have ran in April right so that's that's covered but what I'm saying is is do we want to if there's ever a case where an election happens and we've got that long this is was you I'm I'm okay with appointment for the year but that might leave a bad taste in the mouth for public say well you know it was voted for this person now Council appoints whoever they want we got to wait a whole year to fix it if we you know we're good with that but if let's say we had a bunch of people say it's not fair whatever we actually could if we wanted to vote to special election well actually what he's saying is it's it's it's if if somebody runs and they're running for the three year and then they drop out right after that then it would be the next whole year to fill that position or Council would be filling with me it was there was a limited limited number of days for an appointment before you had to pull a special election which means so then I had to run and then I had to run you know like yeah right but but but we're looking at if they get hit by a bus the next week is this saying they that person is appointed for three years no no to the next Max will be a year next Reg what happens if the next election is the mayor and not the city council they would be on a ballot with that it's an essentially a special election but we're not calling it in between that year okay but if somebody gets HT a month after they're elected we we can call a special election or we can wait until that next April and it's an essentially a special election with your regular municipal election kind of kind of what we did with um the last April we had with the other candidates it's a special election with within a regular election we're not having to have soe come in here in in May or July to have a special election solely for that and now there is a change to that too if I'm reading this right which I like instead because what we had before was we had two candidates running for the threeyear seat or three cands running for the three-year seat two cands running for the one-year seat the way this reads is they would all run for Council the top vote beers would get the highest terms so in that case there would been no Cherokee Sherry separate election that they had to save one here they could have been in a council pool and basically if they if if uh Cherokee would have got the most votes at all then she would got a three-year term she wouldn't had to say I just want the one so you're not running for a chair you're running so you're running for counsel and if there's if there's term differences the top voters get the higher terms the lower get so that's that takes care of all that but in in what you're saying though if it coincides with the mayor election um then there would be a council they' have to select mayor or Council whichever they want running for they would be two separate things and those terms would be commission whatever's left but I do like I think I like your suggestion if I may go go back to that um I know the intent was not to be required to call a special election but it's not a bad idea for you to have AB we could just put um a vacancy of the city council shall be filled by a majority vote of the remaining members of council any person appointed to fill the vacancy sorry I started too soon she hold office until the next regular election or something you know unless Council by majority vote was just to call a special election May a sitation I'm sorry go ahead but you're say there may be a situation where it's boom it's been you know it's going to be a year and your example of a year is is a good idea I mean people voted and then they should have the right so and we should yeah I I think that's a good idea and again what you would probably see happen in that case the majority of the council that was there would would appoint that person right m I can use an example let's say that the person that quit then the other person uh the fourth they missed because they were sick potentially you could have a bad appointment right because maybe the other person would have went the other way and locked it so just just and if people come in and complain just gives us the opportunity to be able to put it to a special elction if we need to probably wouldn't do it but you it's good to have the option gives us the absolutely because yeah my people should make that decision does that one have to come back with that no no that's fine already there's already been a motion a second it's already in the origal on you're not really making you can go forward you can go forward do we make a change yeah well you might want to add oh that's right but that's fine so I need so I need to amend the motion though who made the motion I'm in the motion okay so can you restate your motion amended I with special motion to approve ordinance number 257 17 with changes second motion second any further discussion public like can speak Chopper no vote on in favor say saying I I I I oppos motion carries there's a string vote there okay if you could read next by ordinance number 25718 an ordinance of the city of Port Richie Florida submitting to the electors of the city of Port Richie proposed amendment to City Charter section 2.05 procedures to update obsolete language and provide for an effective date could youall earn some money over 25718 second have motion second for a discussion anyone public I comment hands put to vote all in favor by saying I I oppose motion carries next by title Please ordinance number 25- 719 an ordinance the city of Fort Richie Florida submitting to the electors of the city of Port Richie a proposed amendment to City Charter section 2.05 procedures to expand voting rules to include section 2.03 of the city's Charter allow the affirmative vote to be based on the council person's present when the vote is taken and providing for an eff Ive date motion of discussion motion to approve ordinance number 25719 second motion second for discussion anyone pull that comment see Hands put the vote all in favor by saying I I opposed motion carries read next by title Please ordinance number 25720 and ordinance of the city of Port Richie Florida submitting to the electors of the city of Port Richie a proposed amendment to City Charter section 2.06 power and duties of the mayor and Council to modify subsection B9 into three separate paragraphs eliminating a compound paragraph remove dup duplicative language providing for renumbering of paragraphs and providing for an effective date okay motion discussion and I will point this out I mentioned this a Matt so we we talked about the council's ability to U remove departments I think was what the conversation we have remember right and then this basically says that we can't Institute new departments section five 5.a of your Charter let you create Parts a different section that's why it's duplicative oh so we don't need it there right taking the ability away it's just said said in two spots so we were just trying to clear it up perfect clean it up sorry motion to approve ordinance number 25- 720 second a motion second for discussion any public a comment see Hands bring to a vote all in favor signifi by saying I I opposed motion carries okay read next please ordinance number 25721 an ordinance of the city of Port Richie Florida submitting to the electors of the city of Port Richie and proposed amendment to City Charter section 4.06 determination of election results clarifying the manner in which the election results will be determined and subsection subsection B removal of sub section c as the language is incorporated into subsection B and providing for an effective date yeah this is the one that basically says you just run for Council and they divy out the the terms based on highest votes so motion to approve orders number 25- 721 second motion second any further discussion any public comment sign bring for a vote all in favor 65 by saying I I opposed motion carries read next by title Please ordinance number 7- I'm sorry ordinance number 25- 722 an ordinance of the city of Port Richie Florida submitting to the electors of the city of Port Richie a proposed amendment to City Charter section 5.01 administrative Department city clerk to remove obsolete language and providing for an effective date open floor motion discussion motion to approve ordinance number 25- 722 motion second further discussion public comment please seeing none I bring it back for vote all in favor signy by saying I I oppose motion carries read next by title Please ordinance number 25- 723 an ordinance of the city of Port Richie Florida submitting to the electors of the city of Port Richie a proposed amendment to City Charter section to amend section 507 building inspection and building complt iance Department to modify the description of the department head and providing for an effective date FL motion discussion the building offal doesn't have to meet the state licensing requirements yes no what you're doing is you're saying that the um department head of the building and construction inspection department will be a qualified individual appointed by the city manager that's it this language or originally had the building inspector being the head of that department yeah trying to does that does that would that make it possible for Matt to appoint somebody without meeting State Flor license yes because the idea is it may not be a building official oh right so this so this is just about the building inspection code so there's another section that talks about the building official must have this requirement if you go it's in the cam over with section of the code but there's a couple sections of the code that talks about exactly if you appoint a building official it has to have so this is just didn't make sense to leave that sentence in this provision because this provision is removing the building off basically it's not the building official anymore it may not be right be the department you maybe if not qualified actually you can't because you're account I'd hire you thank you motion to approve 25723 motion second forther discussion any public comment I keep asking Danny you keep telling me no vote all in favor signify by saying I I opposed motion carries uh next by title please or ordinance number 25724 an ordinance of the city of Port Richie Florida submitting to the electors of the city of Port Richie a proposed amendment to City Charter section 6.08 public records to comply with state law and providing for an effective date motion to approve ordinance number 25724 on page 262 the top says ordinance number 2572 last number it's 724 that the business impact statement has the correct number for some reason there's a couple that are missing that number but we'll make sure they're on we don't know what fine no that's good and it's not even on paper and it's wrong just want good you might not have caught that on paper actually I'm glad you thank you point out so I have a motion Lisa is there a second second have motion a second further discussion let public comment saying none I bring it back for a vote all in favor signify by saying I I oppose motion carries please read next by title ordinance number 25725 an ordinance of the city of Port Richie Florida submitting to the electorates of the city of Port Richie a proposed amendment to City Charter section 8.02 Board of adjustment to allow members of the board of adjustment to serve on committees and providing for an effective date motion or discussion motion approve 25 725 second have motion a second any further discussion um on did we because we say there City nor hold any other appointed position within the city except members do do we need to have other appointment is is there is there a situation where we might appoint somebody outside the scope this or just extra words that's the my thing probably find way it is but I didn't know the answer to that that's why I like I wasn't sure what all possibilities existed in the city and you know we keep creating new and different ideas to make it better quier process so I just left it okay did I get a motion and you get okay any further discussion anyone public comment see Hands I bring back for vote all in favor 65 by saying I I opposed motion carries read next by title Please ordinance number 25-7 6 an ordinance of the city of Port Richie Florida submitting to the electors of the city of Port Richie a proposed amendment to City Charter section 8.04 comprehensive land use plan committee to modify the number of members the city council can appoint to define a quorum in providing for an effective date I motion discussion this one's got a br to 2572 yes I have it they're on it what's the number 7 25726 motion to approve ordinance number number 25726 second sorry Bob too slow I tried any F discussion uh any public comment see un break for vote all in favor 65 by saying I I oppos motion carries and now the moment we all waai for if you can read by title please yes the last one and the the content this is what he's been waiting to comment on right here ordinance number 25- 727 in ordinance of the city of Port Richie Florida submitting the electrics of the city of Port Richie a proposed amendment to City Charter section 11.07 salary of city council to modify the monthly salary for the mayor and City and council members and providing for an effective date okay open up for motion and discussion and I will just uh bring up an issue that says in this on the impact statement below this it says that these Sals were placed since 2010 2011 okay done with by memory to happens thank you yeah big difference y so I didn't know and I don't know how these are worded to the public but if that was on there I'll make sure and then the other thing I was going to add obviously this this is going to the public to vote so if if you guys are just make sure you're good with the numbers when we talked about it last meeting uh we took the salary based back in 2001 and extrapolated based on Cola adjustment to Brant and we rounded down um I think it was like pull back up but um I want make sure you guys are good with the numbers before we put it to public because OB is a difficult process to do going forward and it is based on the col adjustment so it's kind of built in so if there's any discussion on it or believe that is you know by all means this is the time to if you think it should be more less I don't have a problem with the only I would say is residents might have a problem with the difference in in mayor and Council I don't know um I don't have a problem with the personally but the residents might what s pointed out that it says members of City Council shall receive a monthly salary as indicated below you're welcome way to go to approve hold on damn it almost so do you remember change it to just a yearly salary and leave the bigger numbers yes or annual salary so that's the only thing I have is I don't know what y'all think about that I don't I would like it to go through because I think we all put a lot of work into this so yeah um I just don't want to turn people off by that one number so no offense please no I I totally agree um the it's the reason I bring it up is I understand the bring it up I they will yeah is is it is it possible to in the explanation we can try we have enough word as far as the vote separate out so that they can um vote for one and not the other but then what happens is they vote Yes for us and no the way so yes what was that again you go back to 36 so if you all pass you stay at the 360 you I don't think you want to separate them yeah because there's a possibility that I'm let's just have an example no one likes you right example and they say no to your raise but they say yes to their rise well then you're stuck at what you are right now and they're going to go up to the higher second we word it differently so it's on the ballot if I think the mayor has a lot of responsibilities right that I agree with that not a lot of responsibilities uh more or or at least this mayor does this mayor's going I mean he's going out and doing a million I thought you were G ask the next mayor might do I don't have I don't disagree with that I'm just saying your your point is well taken I don't want I don't want this to cost the entire Council raises right because and I don't think it would but you know but I think I thought you going to ask is we get I don't remember the number words but we get so many words to kind of explain our intent and I'll try to work in there you know why the count the mayor's higher than the council you can't separate in it too I guess say you you could but then there's a there's a distinct possibility that one would pass and one wouldn't well no if you pass the first one with with all Council no and then you come back see no this year and then next election could we do May separately on on an individual thing to a higher rate Char thing the electric also so same process I think I think your best bet is to keep them together so there's consistency and we do our best to explain it I think everyone recognizes how hard you work and it won't be a problem yeah well and obviously I'll if that uh if that fails we think that's why it is we can come back with the keep them all the same and yeah and do that way can always bring it back another amendment you and I can tell you if it fails it probably needs to come back we have to wait till the next election well you call a special one for say some reason you have to do that you know you never know you never know so um that would be recommendation we keep it together we'll do the explanation the best we can with the limited number of words we have and see what happens else do or do you think that might be a problem I don't know I didn't think about it I don't know I you know you can't make an option like 8,000 for the mayor and 6,000 for councel or just have to be this well because all roll together what saying is somebody well I don't want him getting that so nobody's getting nothing Al together that's that's fine I say I have an option of this or 8,00 for May 6,000 for city council the other but the bottom line is this is this hasn't been raised in many many many years that needs to be explain that all we're doing is we're making an adjustment to that you don't on a ballot you can't only do so much right well I've seen some of those paragraphs are shocked sometimes when they find out how much it really is yeah the character Max I'll make it work but I need to but I do need to consider on I either have to because I'm completely missed this um that your title has monthly salary obviously the first sentence has monthly salary and then I quote an annual salary so I need to know if you want to quote it as annual or a monthly I would probably put it as annual which is easier to fix actually if you say monthly it's a smaller number might pass because it's going from 360 to 9600 right it might it might come across and be more salable so I will I will change the leave monthly um yes so A and B will have monthly just divide by 12 I think it's 8640 or something is that right or do you explain changing from 360 to 800 you know or whatever in the explanation so they can see and the reason is because it hasn't been adjusted in 25 years yeah thank you for noticing six so 625 and 800 is what the monthlies are you're keeping it as monthly yes and I oh the dollar amount yes were you going to run buy a house of so it will now say for the mayor be $800 monthly Council council member 625 I'm done $625 monthly so 625 time 12 is 7500 y all right so it's motion with those changes yes go the dinner Friday notion motion 25- 725 with changes discuss 727 727 second motion second further discussion sorry Dave thank you public got comment I thought you wanted that all right bring back for a vote all in favor sayy by saying I quickly I oppose motion carries unan unanimously right uh okay that's all the charter changes thanks for getting through that um and so next up on the agenda is item number 10 city of Port Richie delegation of signature Authority for FEMA grantee public assistance program pass Mr cop introduction so we're in the process of submitting reimbursements to FEMA for expenses um so we need to get uh City myself designated as City's authorized agent so we need a letter from the mayor signed by the mayor delegating signature authority to the city man he's becoming a right of dictator here is because I don't get paid enough to do all these signatures that's pass this over hands hey you can't even make a motion I don't think you should get we make motions we make seconds you do nothing I know I know sit there you just sit there there I got listen her tell me no all the time I do do that so motion to approve this this delation of signature Authority for FEA grantee public assistance program second second sorry Bob again least for a second uh any further discussion anyone public like to comment see vote all in favor 6y by saying I I oppos motion carries last of council business is item number 11 purchase of a pierce saber pumper pass Mr C introduction so during the uh fiscal year 25 uh budget process in the capital program we talked about the purchase of a fire engine to replace and uh one that currently exists it actually is going to be to replace an engine three years from now um but because it takes up to 36 months to get it built we need to order it now uh we've been given two options in terms of uh paying for this we can either pay pay for it you know put a deposit down and pay for it uh when when the vehicle comes in or we can choose to go with a loan option um if we did go with a loan option I would tell you that that we'd probably be looking at the fiveyear market for 22% um and trying to give you kind of an analysis of this um when when you look at the cost of because we get a prepayment um discount which is effectively $110,000 off of the 1 million $ 6,516 uh it ends up being we spend only about $31,000 more um to actually go with the loan um I think it it probably is a better process to go through uh because of that but um that's really in the end going to be up to you if you want to spend an additional $31,000 for that flexibility what is the life expect expectancy for this um offer good evening so um the life expectancy of a Frontline apparatus is the nfpa's recommendation is 10 years a reserve apparatus is 20 years so this we'll be replacing a 20year old apparatus is what it'll do and and we would be expecting to hold on to this for 20 years y so 10 years will save for 20 years so the current truck that we're in right now will be about at the n and a half year mark If depending on if this comes in at 36 months or or a little bit after between 34 to 36 months with the contract says they have to deliver it in so you're about at night so you're going to put that in reserve status and then this would become the primary line then you have 10 years of Reserve status 20 goes out 10 comes in new one it's kind of setting the city up for a a 10e replacement cycle which is pretty fortunate most fire trucks last in 5 to sevene replacement cycle um it allows us to do that the um you know when we're talking about the longevity these trucks of course as they age um the one that we're going to be replacing in 2008 has cost us significantly over a few years um just because parts of when that truck was made that style truck um the the fire department was pretty desperate to get a truck in in 2008 um and they kind of had to buy one that was ready to go and off the lot um and that's why probably if you ever looked at that cab design of that truck you don't see many trucks like that because they've discontinued that cab well with that comes discontinued uh timoy front ends and and all this other stuff that you know we're just kind of rolling the dice on and then the saltwater exposure to these vehicles um you know we had the intention when we replaced this current fire truck um when we were when we were ahead of the council back in 2019 um we had the intention of holding on to a truck from 1999 sent it for inspection and found out that the frame was rusted out um so you know we we do as much prevention as we can um but unfortunately salt and everything and the corrosions the bodies are made of aluminum but the frames are still Metal Frames always watching that truck and taking of yeah we try to take pride you know this is this is a a huge commitment for a city it really is and we understand that ont taking um and when we build these trucks we take the fiscal responsibility seriously you know I mean because you could get very expensive in in in outfitting these trucks with you know quote unquote bells and whistles right for for lack of better terminology um but the big thing that kind of pushes our price up just a little bit is we have to build it to fit our fire station right you know I mean that that that right there when the and I met with all the fire truck manufacturers some firet truck manufacturer said hey we'll just tell you right now we couldn't build a truck that that low that you need to get in it's 9 96 the average fire truck is 910 um of height so it's not like we can they can take an inch off they got take a few and we had to give on some things for instance we can't ever get a th000 gon water tank because to get 1,000-gallon water tank and still have the compartmentation to take care of the tasks at hand we have with the water rescue and stuff we had to to figure out hey do we want to get rid of hose or do we want to get rid of water so we had to to give and take um even with with this fire truck uh and fire trucks are only getting bigger which is not good for us because you know we we're trying to build them smaller to fit our current bases all the equipment transfer I mean the equipment does transfer so obviously we'll be equipment from a 20-year-old truck um so you know but in our Capital Improvement plan I think not next year the following year uh we budgeted what we we're going to be asking for about $100,000 to do that that was just a number we put out there of course we're going to go through the equipment and see hey what has valued life um but again I don't think you want a 20-year-old saw you know but that's stuff we can replace as Our intention is as department is over the next three years if we have this approval that will kind of start chipping away at that equipment list and figure out where we are what we can transfer over we can't transfer we have a step by you know step program so airs like you haven't heard us ask for new air packs in a while but they're on a list so we look at the age and the use of items and then we kind of pace them out have it but you will yeah coming sooner or later it's coming and and unfortunately also working about working against some stuff the NFPA just says hey look past this point you shouldn't use it and NFPA is a recommendation but the downfall is if somebody does get hurt using that the first thing they're going to reference is well it wasn't NPA compliant so you know you're it's one of those what what do you do you just try to do the best interest a lot of equipment like police equipment dated it's got and sometimes you don't even want that it could be a rope that's never been used once it makes 10 years whether it's never even been taken out of the bag it's got to be done with those items are out there so like Mr Copler said the reason why we're coming ahead of you kind of like it looks like we're kind of jumping a gun it's not we're necessarily jumping a gun we want to make sure that in 3 years from now we have the truck coming in when the truck 20 years old not in 3 years we're going hey we need a truck and oh by the way this truck is costing us $60,000 to maintain and and keep especially after this last hurricane that truck rolled the dice that truck I mean obviously it was unforeseen but that truck was the made sure that we made sure that that got because we had to go in to get people right um can't tell them sorry can't tell the fire truck that was the truck that had the exposure we did prevention like you said we had a guy underneath that truck with a pressure washer washing it but I wash my truck afterwards yeah and still no brainer so we asking which option excuse me yeah so there's two yeah the two options are we we pay cash where we'd have to put a deposit down and then when it's delivered we had paid the rest um what I didn't mention with that another calculation of all this is that because it's only a three-year window uh you know what I would intend to do if we went that route is we would put money aside each of the next couple years in the capital plan you're still going to have to pay more in the final year because you only have three years to come up with the million dollars so in doing the the loan option for five years it levels it off first off so only pay in 218 for five years so you don't have that you know larger payment um and so it gives you a little bit more flexibility in the capital Improvement plan so you don't have that larger payment uh in the last year what's the interest rate for payment uh they're proposing 4.82 now we we are looking right yeah so I I've actually met with a couple of uh independent Banks to see if we can so the plan was to borrow the you know we have the 200,000 set of side right now we can use as the down payment but it's borrow the difference set it in a bank account pay on it I we should if if if we can get a decent interest rate actually make a little bit of money off of it and still pay for it in the so I mean uh you know in that that way we're not doing it uh using our own cash or anything like that so we're looking I had a few banks that didn't really do a whole lot for us I'm waiting on BCI Capital One that we got our back to truck and stuff from um their interest rates weren't really great on those items so trying to work Som out for us but um that's kind of where I don't have an exact answer I don't have anybody give us a better interest rate than 4% right now so our interest cost on a fiveyear plan which what you're proposing right Y is 150 Grand rough 41 right now the other the other piece of all this and I for to mention is we did uh request this is one of our appropriation items and in in that the way that I uh put it together was you know the city would put 200,000 because we've already budgeted that and we could potentially in the upcoming uh legislative year get the other $800,000 which again takes care of everything so it a question about the appropriation if we were to get that and we we Finance this at the 482 say um is there can we pay that off and evate that interest then so it's not we're not locked into once we do it so am I understanding didn't we what we talked about it yeah we we did ask him if there was a prepaid penalty and he said no so basically just stops the crewing once we pay it off yeah the um and of course the other thing ask we got we do have the cash to be able to cover all this but it would take away from other things but if we don't we don't have a attached to that maybe it's prent to go ahead and pay for it and save that 140 in interest cost and do a loan for something else unless this is unless you think this is a better interest rate opportunity than something else that come along like a bond or something we need do something big I don't know right but the issue is going to be that short of paying for it up front right if we we put a million 60,000 or actually right we're GNA be paying a million doll plus so realistic I guess the money probably be I know what what are we earning now four something yeah it's like 4.78 so really it's a wash more less a little bit more so it's probably those interest rates well right now we're we're running about uh $1,500 in so I took out $500,000 each one of those investment accounts to cover for the million dollars that we you know use and we we're running about5 maybe $1,800 short than what we normally would be bringing in so I mean it's not a huge loss but I mean probably worth it for the option right is that kind what you're thinking yeah I think it just gives us flexibility in the capital plan for the next year right Ian emergency happened and he I want to tie up a million dollar right I want to get the truck but I don't he did indicate that um you know he got an extension on these rates to to us when we met him um so he did indicate hey look if you are going to finance it Finance it like get the approval fill out the application get it going because he got extension on these rates because the rates are going to go up yeah as long as we can like said if appropriation happs whatever we can pay it all off whatever happens and we're at interest it's good I think and that first payment isn't really due until the year out correct so there the options all right I'm go one that be option one yeah it's not due until next next year yeah least so U Mr C was talking about the fiveyear plan figures out um so yeah your first payment be 125 2026 so we got defer on that so we don't have to what we do is sign this don't make first payment till next year and that first payment is the 200 something we've allocated for this year right yeah but I'm assuming as soon as we sign the deal the interest starts AC crew ex yeah and then we gain the $100,000 discount $110,000 go right I'd like to make a motion to approve the purchase of the peer saver pumper and leave the selection of the payment options to our city manager and our finance manager because they're going to make the best decision for us secondment okay got a motion second second I a second I'm open up for f open up further discussion if you somebody's mic's not on over yeah I I had some questions on some of these options sure I noticed this one had a Pham a foam system in it do we currently have a foam system now so we have one in the 2008 truck we do not have one in the current truck because the truck we bought um was a prefabbed model um the the current K we're in it was already in production and we couldn't add that option onto the truck okay so you're getting we're actually getting it back so it's in uto 2008 we're getting it back we have we have one in the system now yep when this one comes in in three years it's going to replace we're going to lose one we're going to get the same thing we have one in this all right so that's what I wanted to know uh I also noticed um you mentioned that we're getting 800 tank instead of a 750 correct um what is the capacity of the tank we have in the systems now so our current so remember we talked about truck height um so as our disciplines increased ALS and water rescue we've now taken on more compartmentation right um so when we talk about our dive equipment now our aist equipment that's now taking up other equipment so we're having to go from a around a 950 gallon tank 800 gallon tank but we're keeping the same amount of Hose which doesn't lose ISO points so we were talking about ISO before um we do fire flows so I don't want anybody think this like this um our average nozzle flows about 150 gallons a minute um off our initial line coming off so that's Ade time and we're in a pretty hydrogen City so water we we had a long discussion on this Chief and I one of the biggest factors was the fact that they had to lower the truck yeah so by lowering the truck they had to make the tank size smaller and we had to try to discuss what hose we were going to lose as well as the water we did not want to lose the water but we just didn't have a choice there's two things we had to cut short the height and the length and the length yeah so we have a cut bumper space on both sides which sounds um aesthetically the bumpers are aesthetic well not on a fire truck they're not when the the back bumper the shorter you make it the harder it is for us to stand on it to safely get hose off the top so those changes had to happen because there's no other way to fit it in the truck but a big portion of that water tank loss you're speaking of lower the tank the only other option was to change the suspension which was absolutely you know was like people lower their cars and trucks they would have to do that to the fire truck which is an astronomical Fe and believe it or not it only increased the tank size by 75 gallons yeah 50 gallons yeah that was a so $22,000 change to is it the reason why we're going with foam also what a pre-piped foam system is when you add class a foam it's a surfactant so it makes water more wet per se for laab terminology now having that piped in actually increases your tank size because now we're putting foam on side of a fire with that so that foam is actually helping us with less water yeah less water yeah lot options I can't let air do have the numbers up in front of you was the change for that 7 750 to 800 was like 22 Grand it was 22 Grand and it was like at a cost per gallon it was $446 per gallon so I asked that because I knew that was going to be brought up so when we're looking at the sourcewell contract there's two contracts that you have would have f um the Florida Sheriff's Office reason why they didn't run this under Florida Sheriff's Office is to cost more money for the same exact truck cuz florid Sheriff's Office charges more to the manufacturer to use that contct contract so they went with the sourcewell contract because it brought the price of the truck down on the sourcewell contract it's a basic pumper a basic you'll even see in that we have LED lights you think it's a no-brainer to have LED lights now but the contract says to use H hallogen lights it's all within the the premise of the contract allows those changes but the reason why those changes are there is because the truck the base model truck for that base contract is that a a base model truck that's 9 fo 10 not meant for our dis and does that their homework so you guys are comfortable with all the upgrades that you've made to the vehicle yeah this has been a year and we've been at this for about a year yeah yeah we've been at this probably a little bit over a year we've been this I this this truck's going to not only serve the community for its time but it's going to serve it in a capacity that fits the needs of this community you know this isn't a truck that's meant for you know I don't want but like Pasco County it's meant for the city of Porche our streets our Heights you know what we've got to carry you know we're unique in the fact like I brought it before we we're we're one of the we all the only Department do water rescue well that's good for you guys right we we're ready to go in if you car drive your vehicle in the water well that equipment takes up space you it's wet when you put it back the compartment has special to make sure that the wet gear can go in the compartment so this is the first fire truck he's excited about it as you can tell that the city's actually City's actually purchasing that is built for us we not just and him the whole all the crews got to go out and say Hey listen this compartment is great but it doesn't fit this tool we got to put it at an angle we're going to fix that so all those little things were included into this truck for instance I I didn't want power windows but the guys out voted me and they wanted power windows and you wanted them to do this yeah I that's what they have for currently one of the other things I did notice that they're charging you 3,700 bucks for solar film on on the vehicle can that get done locally we saw that and I I I still question that myself but the liability of us doing it on our own versus buying it from the manufacturer I I to me I thought it was worth just million truck I think just to let them do the do the window T it came that way they they installed it versus us taking it paying you know from F by night company to come in and install the window ending on it breaks the window yeah I I I looked at that number I I kept shaking my head matter of fact I got a question mark by it myself and then when talking to him a little bit he's going do what you want but that's what I Unity drives the train I asked too okay they may take it for a test drive you never know any other discussion questions okay I have motion second on the floor if no other discussion I'll open a public comment saying none good okay bring back for a vote all in favor 65 saying I I opposed Mo cares un answerly thanks guys and that business discussion of old business next up any discussion of old oh I'm sorry no I'm right all right old business old business first I was wondering uh with the U the company is doing a survey on our traffic situation um we're still I think uh in line to get that done in the next four months a few months right is it a few or more we it's few um we're still in line with them we we've sent them all the requested data uh currently there is a survey available on the website for data that they're collecting so if anyone hasn't had a chance to complete the survey on on our website um but we're in line to be projected to finish by April okay so I I would I would highly recommend uh residents well as Council go to the the website that was set up I think it allows for you to put in uh specific areas of concern and type of concern which would be very helpful to uh you know again there may be areas that we're not thinking of and they're not going to see in the numbers that they uh are studying um so it's an opportunity to put those areas within the city into uh the knowledge base so we can you know make sure that this is a uh complete uh plan when you get there any other little business uh yeah BR your bathroom yes so it was demolished today I don't know if it's completed is it complete let's just say they were load I left it's gone yeah um we have to make sure I don't think we've had a chance to go out there flush and and so the next phase is really to to get what the replacement is going to be and then update you guys up um just makw a limestone drrive fishing pier that's going to be I think on next Council agenda to there's a bid closing so we've got the bids in for the Limestone fishing pier had two bids is that right and so we'll have those on nextg to to select oh by the way I've seen people fishing on that so you guys might want to keep an eye on Limestone yeah that could be a real hazard nothing to stand on any any other old business no can't do that we have to communication what got communication Round Table com we move that to the end so uh next up comment from mayor city council I will start with I'll start with vice mayor Rodriguez I don't think she has anything obviously but I'll give you a chance second chance at it let me see okay Burke I'm finally getting along with this mouse I think this is going to work for me good so thank you to George for setting this all up and sa was in here working on it and everybody else that yeah it's it's going to work it's easier to keep track actually okay good uh councilman H I think this great root beer the caramel you get Caramel you get a fire truck that's a good deal I didn't get a Caro Compu Crow going off for votes or something these C don't break Compu that is that you got I just say the computer is awesome I think it's great save Ashley time and money in the city I think it's a great idea at 600 babies today don't step on my th I got I Ashley needs a monitor like just so we can see her face I don't think you want to do that yeah I can see it trust me probably leave wow that I had that's all got Council Mueller yeah I got a couple uh whatever happened with the property on Quest where the sea wall was falling in were we trying to get that resolved or demoed or I think that's on one of the lists to go forward with light mistaken because I noticed that that property has changed hands next the next round yes that property's changed previous bu official that but I don't want to I don't want to stop that keep it moving um good that you're working on got a new Chief in in the process um how we coming on dispatch um the county approved the changes that we were making to the uh interlocal and the next step is to go to the County Board that dispatch board to get their approval of it and once they approve it then it will go to us and then once we approve it it goes to the board Commission good good to see progress here now in the uh review of the previous minutes there was a mention of the Pine Hill lift station that do epoxy line was how was that going I believe Daryl informed us on on Monday that they were they were going forward with that particular Elation they haven't completed yet yeah I haven't completed and I noticed that there was an Ethics training coming up for Florida leag of cities for all of us uh that's on 25 and I believe it's a webinar and if you sign in we can I don't know if there's that there's probably fees for that is it no it's good free you say February 5th February 5th there you should have gotten an email today it came in this afternoon and there's a grant seminar uh with them as well that our grant person should look into potentially have some opportunity there um and that's all I have okay I just got a few things first off Happy New Year to everyone uh I think this first me of year so 2024 was a rough one and um we got through it we're still getting through it but we'll get there we'll well make so AB happy happy New Year everyone and wish us well for everybody the myself and Matt spoke at the uh delegation meeting last Tuesday uh they met and um basically just thank them for consideration obviously we've got five Appropriations before them and so obviously they're they're integral into potentially getting that those across the finish line so we we were there and represent City for Richie um the the other thing I wanted to mention was um on on the digital stuff I know this was kind of put together for this this meeting um one of Reason Ashley was in a conference I think right so she was actually remote so actually worked out better for not to do the books this time but I did want to point out this was a large agenda we had 61 pages and just so just from the paper perspective of it not counting Ashley's time that would been involved putting those books together um 61 Pages you take that times seven books is 400 4,27 Pages you it by 500 pages in a ream of paper um you get 8.4 so almost eight and a half reams of paper a case is 10 so this meeting alone just the just the paper involved in that to to do those books would have cost probably 50 bucks minimal cost but it's a it's a case of paper but there's a lot more time and stuff invol that so I'm really thankful that you guys are giving us a shot I think it'll work better maybe a little different but uh it's it's a real good savings from from paper from time environment just all across the board I think it's going to be a lot e are going for I appreciate you participating in that actually helps actually out tremendously um maybe but um two more things I save the the this one for last but I want to let you all know I've I've been in conversation with Bill Rocket's office he did a walk around Newport Richie last year um so and I met with them Karen I said hey we'd like you to come here so they've they booked that date as of today how the Press so May 9th which is the day before our May 10th is a Saturday so that's May 9th is a Friday that's the May ball May no that's the next week May 10th is the um the kickoff parade for the Centennial so Gus is going to be here on May 9th time yet to be determined to um Oly take a tour of the city stop at some of the business or whatever and visit for SE so it gives us opportunity to get in front of him and and uh so kind of put that on your calendars so hopefully you all can participate in that I'm sure would earn it the afternoon sometime but it's a good opportunity to get in front of Gus and and roll out the red car for him and make him welcome um so got that cifi for the May 9th um and the last thing I wanted to bring up obviously you guys probably saw it on Facebook the fire department posted there was uh two um firemen that got fireman of the Year Damian line ball and Bruce forgive me Joan Janus I had it before I started slip Bruce Janus both firemen of the year I know we there's a lot going on and of course this is a big agenda yeah if we could give Applause yeah appreciate those guys service and dedication Community obviously um we do have opportunity for um I guess you probably had some kind of ceremony presented that stuff to them I would like to do that as during our Proclamation section at one of the next Council meetings so we can uh give a little recognition from the council for that I think it's a great achievement I appreciate their Serv so if we can set that up at some point you guys set up for the volunteers fireman's boss okay that's when we actually presented them so all the family was already there so doing a whole another day did it right yeah and and and going forward I forgot that you started yeah and going forward if you guys to ever do something like that let because I didn't know about it I'd love to attend to that myself just to just be there support those guys so in a future or anything like that but you know if we can if we can bring in here during proclamations as well let's do that because they need that recognition it's it's important um that's all got so that I will entertain a motion for adjournment motion to motion second all in favor 65 say I I