##VIDEO ID:Jeq47TMllao## I'm gonna leave it on all the time this way I'll I'll tap really good okay like to call to order the 2125 planning um resiliency and restoration uh committee for Port Richie if we could uh stand and Pledge of Allegiance please United States America indivisible with liy and justice for all okay if we could do the uh attendance yes chairman Carl Roth present Vice chairman Chris Leeds present member Daryl Rose pres member Linda Rodriguez present member Ron podova let the record show that member Ron podova is absent from tonight's meeting and member Devin eron but the record show that member Devon eron is present for tonight cool everybody else good good everybody okay um so so we have minutes on this that we have to approve like a board meeting yeah just like um your portor board um will be taken and put on the agendas agendas foral got okay any um like approval on the minutes or any comments about the minutes before we approve them motion to approve the minutes second all in favor I any post nope okay minutes are approved um I think what we wanted to do is just go through and get any updates from folks first uh put uh couple items on the agenda kind of an extension of what our conversation was last time about storm water which I thought was pretty fruitful um basically Daryl it also sent some elevation information I didn't really put that on but we could talk about that too depending on um but uh Incorporated the coast elment of the C plan in for those that may not have seen that for more contextual uh background on on uh on things so I thought that might help anybody comes in just in case I'll leave that there for you and then I'm going to grab the M good deal um so uh with that why don't we go around the horn and uh do updates um Chris you like to start sure so had a uh back and forth interactions with Mark Bellis the chief uh uh the director for the office of strategy and sustainability for Pasco County um as we've talked about last couple of meetings uh want to have a back and forth with them really understand their resiliency plan and what their plans are and look for areas where we can work with them you know maybe shovel ready stuff I hate that term but it's the most probably accurate one um what are things that they have on their big picture thing that we can take and maybe get them to help us resource and us go do the work um so he's very much in favor of that uh gave me three dates in January so the 6 9th and 10th I think were the three dates um and he gave us pretty much a broad block of time each one of those days it's a Monday Thursday and a Friday um I'm not sure how many people we can take with us I would be bold and you know if if you say hey I really want to go uh then I'll ask for a room big enough to hold all of us we're just a few of us and I'm going to extend an invitation to Matt as well uh but the intent of that really is for them to go present their plan to us give us you know kind of an under the coverage look um they have not shared it out in the open yet so we'll be one of the first groups to see that live and then start a back and forth conversation with them about what we can do to support that plan and to see if we can get some scientific resources from their team to maybe help out or help flesh out our committee as well um because I know that was one of the things we really wanted to have so he's very supportive that approach um just look at your calendars 6th 99th and 10th and if it's pretty much anytime before about noon on any all three of those days all mornings all mornings I think on the Monday it goes up till about 3 o'clock but that would be starting at noon one o' two meeting it's the 6th nth of the 10th it's a Monday January January January okay sure 6 9th and 10th um uh so that's good that that's moving forward and that he's engaged there had a conversation with Sean P from planning and zoning um I think we talked about two meetings ago that there's going to be some overlap with what work that they do um I just offered to him to have him come to our meeting first meeting in January okay uh so that he could get a feel for what we're talking about not we're not to a point where you know obviously any recommendations back to him yet um but don't want him this to be happening and us be moving forward and then get far enough road we need to do something this l surprised him uh so he's very open to that and said you just tell me when and I'll be there so and I think that was my two tasks from last time the uh meetings does anybody have any biases on uh early in the week or later in the week I would prefer earlier the week early Monday that' be Monday yeah only because the 10th I do have the the 10th I do have um a previous engagement yes okay let's just push for Monday and I'll do it yeah there a couple of days the first is the middle of the week right yeah so there's a couple of days at the end there uh if we come back um and what were the time windows on the Monday Monday was prior to 9 or prior to 3 o'clock in the afternoon so pretty much any time okay uh darl what's your take as far as what's going to be less of an impact on you since you're gainfully um earlier in the week would be fine time wise time of the day you want to do first thing it's hard to say given the weekend you want to slip it back a little bit give you a couple hours it's all you know um anytime as if I accept it than can pop off with utilities stuff like that but I can make all right you want how about 9 to 12 some that window okay I'll see what can make work for that day are we doing that on 9th or the 6th 6th okay will follow all yeah we'll have to do that um before the meeting so let's just get with Ashley and right as far as that goes and then she can put the word out that we have that meeting scheduled Cent H Government Center uh I would assume tell so the only thing that we'll have to consider is that we will be attending their meeting all right so uh just from a keeping everything on the straight and narrow we have to minimize our C discussion amongst ourselves but as much as we can go and get out of them and where they're going it's a Open Season so just keep that in on that cool um now that's good with Sean because that that leads into some stuff that uh yep that I was thinking about y he was very enthusiastic happy to get engaged good good good um de so um I did a lot of research on that graywater thing and that was uh very interesting um I don't think it's um I don't think it's something that we we actually have water source here that's fairly um accessible you know because we have the Limestone shelter H um but in places where there's seriously water restrictions like you know like a desert every drop really does matter but the the systems in place to do that really cost between 510,000 to really set that up and I don't think it's cost prohibitive and I think that if we get into that it will just add a whole layer of of more things that people need to add on to their home um and and it's a very tricky system that requires a lot of Maintenance and it's a smelly system and it's it's um they've they've come a long way with it for sure but um you know like the gray water if it if it stays around for any length of time it reeks um and uh and the filters need to be changed and things like that then you have pumps and and holding tanks and a lot of plumbing and things like that and it's a complicated system is really what it is um it does make sense if you're if you uh if you don't have access to water that can General um but we have the aquifer here we're very you know fortunate for that you know and even even um if we didn't have the aquifer I think that you know as as technology progresses I think that these are sort of intermediate solutions to you know long-term issues and whatnot like doing this gray water but I think that technology really will change um in you know 10 20 30 years from now where we're trying to mitigate on a high level um you know these these impacts and stuff with the water but I think we'll have desalination plants and things like that that will will start to spin up and come online um because I I thought that was an interesting thing that you brought up with the with the gry w um so I I really did a lot of research on it and I and I um most the people who um you know had uh had information on it said just don't do it it's just not it's just a big headache um well question sure do my recollection was the codes precluded us from doing that is that correct as far as our our written codes yes keep us from doing that is what you're saying question that's the question I don't know I wasn't so concerned about um from my perspective I'm not big into telling you what to do what I want to be able to do is have the flexibility to do if I choose to do that so what my recollection was the last time I looked a while ago was that we were precluded from doing that per the codes as far as I'm aware we you do have to hook up to sewer you don't have a choice correct but that's not even what I was quite say but no that's that the sore part I understand because that's a requirement but does everything have to go down the sore okay okay is a question because hooking up the seore is one thing blackwat great but my thing is is there something in the code that's precluding me from doing something that is reasonable and feasible not that I necessarily want to do it but I don't want to preclude you or anybody else from doing if it's a reasonable op Comm commercial is different than residential residential everything if it's toilet shower sink has to go into the sewer system because with the chared that's how they do it drains um it's it's mainly roof drains and that's why we do smoke testing so a lot of people will sneak their roof drains and French drains and time them into our sewer system so we smoke test right instead of coming out of the stack of the house it'll start coming out of the gutters that's how you know there gutters are tied into our sewer system which is a big no no do the state that's a state thing they cannot be tied in I I I agree that you know traditionally the system has built up because of how we've built the system right so like in many of our older cities the storm water and sanitary are all tied together that's creating big bigger headaches but it's been that way for a hundred years correct all right so many entities are trying to correct that my question is are there things out there today okay we're looking a 100 years down the pike okay uh I'll give you a classic example that I just ran into U my understanding now with the new air conditioning systems that you the building code still requires you to have a supplemental heat in it okay because the code hasn't changed the new systems operate down to minus 20 degrees without need for heat so why does the code still mandated he's talking about an actual coil system talking about hbac system heat pump that you would buy after January 1 the codes aren't in line right with the technology right so my take as I step back all right and I do a look across the board and say what are those things that were precluded back because the way we've built the system now I don't want to go after every windmill out there but are there some reasonable ones that we should at least ask the question with the gray water what what do you want to do if you were able is is the premise that if you were able to how do you want to do that and use the water to water your grass or fill your swim be more like a reuse it'd be like a more like a reuse tank yeah yeah exact well I tell you where it came up for me you'll probably have to put in you probably have to pull electrical permits because you're need a pump in order to pump it back into your house you're going need back back prev devices because your pump that you're putting in your tank to pump it back into your house to reuse it might come back into our system if you're putting out more pressure than what we're giving you say say you're putting 85 PSI we're only giving you 70 well you're going to overpower us if you don't have a back F in and then they're going to end up or the back F fails and that they're going to be you're going to be pumping back into our system this a little bit of a a bias remal so there was some developers that had come in they wanted to do some larger commercial development and residential development and one of the questions that came up had to do with the impact on limited resources water sewer and all of that and because elsewhere in the country people are trying to satisfy leads requirements and and whatnot they're doing some very Innovative stuff where they've figured out and may not in the books now but they figured that out there are other implications okay that have to be considered on a larger scale all right but um are there things that we just want to stop precluding from being able to do because these commercial came in these folks came in and say Hey I want to do the grand development and you know what the impact is got to going to be no more than three houses okay well gosh that sounds pretty good because your footprint is a lot smaller than I was thinking talking about for new construction or or is this like a project that you're interested in kind of doing it it's just something there in my mind that has lower impact on the environment yes okay it causes Downstream ramifications to some of the stuff that we've built up for a 100 years give it I I understand uh but the last I looked we were precluded from doing that and I hate being precluded from doing things for arbitrary reasons okay if it doesn't make sense okay so if you wanted to build a new home and put in parallel Plumbing Systems all right for the drain connected them together today for the sewer system that we go down okay why should I not be able to do that because tomorrow maybe there's a solution in five years that makes this a wonderful thing okay because there's been more development more water demands and all of that and cor Richie can say here say hey we've been driving our usage down down down okay don't hold us back because we've done things in the past because we've looked out forward to say hey this is what we want we need to continue to refresh and redo and how do we do it in the most the least impactful way being proactive instead of reactive that's my thinking so looking at Development Across the board how can I do the least impactful development or Redevelopment what are those things that are important and utilities so if I encourage people to not use all the power that they do and use energy efficient stuff that's a good thing I think because there's less impact on that maybe I encourage them to get solar or wind or you know whatever it happens to be I don't want to mandate something because if you don't want to do that I don't care but if you want to do that hey go for it so that's my take I don't want to preclude you from doing something if you want to do it and it makes sense so the way it's written currently code is you're saying we're we're precluded from I believe that was my so I have to okay so so you when they put I use rain barrels out rain barrels out so they can water to use they don't have to irrigate they can use the rain barrels that's how they water the pr it's essentially what you're saying but there's no reuse inside the house reuse it for outside however you want to reuse it so the reason we don't allow hookups with gutters and anything other than fixtures inside the house because you're charged for the water that comes in sewer also our list stations are only for the capacity of the residents of the usage that they get which I think it's average 90 gallons per person per day or something like that roughly an average of four whatever also we have to pay for that so we're not collecting the money from you guys using the water but we're also we're paying to have the unused water treated I.E the drains French whatever it may be that's why you have to do the smoke testing because there is people out there that that's where it's no different than I and I when we get in our sewer system if we allow water that's just not being paid for us in our system and it's just it's not a bad it's just a bad thing all around and and I understand there's the sewer part is huge I understand that because I know folks that are in the business and if they don't have the proper mix of black water gray water the systems don't work okay but that's why if we wanted to evolve those systems over 20 or 40 years because of things that we want to do we need to raise that on the agenda now because those things don't just happen overnight as far as the source systems and uh not that they can't be addressed but they're not built that way now so that's a it's a complicated it's not a trivial little I just wonder here's here's my thing with it though is like the more I I get into it and I think about it juice is not worth the S because it's just a lot of messing around for because you know we luckily have these well Fields they just produce you know what I mean we got you know and uh you know it's not like we're running out you know like I think that's just a myth like that's just a fallacy like we're not running out of water like I've never in my entire life and in your entire life we've never turned on the faucet and not had water come out you know um and I you know they say we're running out of water I don't believe it I think that um you know when we if we do run into issues where the oifer is kind of coming down or something like that we'll come up with in ideas but I just think these really complex systems where you know we have to have these you know backflow valves and you know we're already supposed to have a backflow valve anyways but is it working properly is it gumed up you know is let me just stop my was not to pursue the bra waterer issue right my intent was to pursue things like that okay that was just the convenient example interesting though it's an interesting thing to look for things like that that impact resiliency and uh you know makes it easier to restore that minimizes impacts on the environment those are things that I think we want to look for that would that doesn't fish I don't care but that's let's look for things like that so we can at least think about because there may be bigger ramifications because we got a 100-year horizon we're looking at here I only want to look at 2040 right now but if we can what are those things that we need to be thinking about so you're not looking at that specifically you're not looking at fixing it for tomorrow or next week or next year you're looking you're you're trying to get us to look into the far future to set ourselves up or or future generations for success in the future and and you use the gray water as an example but but that that's one piece of the puzzle but the puzzle is a 3,000 piece puzzle or whatever it is exactly am I yeah yeah yeah you're just trying to get us to up because development for us depending on what sea level rise does may look completely different than what we see today so that's what I think we need to kind of get in our our heads a little bit and I was just trying to tweak things yeah so what a lot of places do is I'm sure you guys heard them they use reuse plants I know like how they get the water back to Quality is not the most questionable yeah the thing is is the sewer gets pumped into the tank gets pumped then it goes through all these Ro process chemical process and gets turned back into drinking water and then gets pumped right back out to the system so or they use surface water which is a big open Reservoir collects all the rain water well like pumps it out pumps it into the plant gets treated and then gets taken out as drinking water so those are so much I kind of what you're down the line in part of that tree the other thing is you talk about 90 gallons per person okay you like a household of four why aren't we encouraging things for 30 gallons a day all right and reduce the overall impact because then there's less demands it's easier to recover we got a smaller water plant that we have to De or we can handle a lot more growth okay or we can it to more outside I mean I don't care but it's like what can we do to you know grow the city and get us going in those areas recommendations on minimizing our impact are around water or sewer and I only started this conversation because those to me were the fundamentals that we provide to our community so let's make sure those are right for 20 or 40 years or 60 years some of the some of the stuff I see where it's highed just from the the billing aspect of it is there's a water there's water restrictions right but it's not Forest that makes sense right so there's homes that use 5,000 gallons every other day just watering their lawn you can see which one's water so they're overusing that water there as well it's just you know if things were en forced and the rate you you would see the usage go down a little bit but but kind of you know and and you know like when you buy a faucet today or whatever they're they built in with these you know restrictor valves these little pressure reducers the first thing I do when I buy those is I rip them out because I hate that I want to use 90 gallons a day I don't want to use 30 gallons a day because when I take a shower I want a nice I live in America this is a rich country okay if we have issues we need to make more water not restrict you know less I think it's like a we have this like thing of scarcity in our Lins from you know like the Greenies and things like that and I understand and it's it's it's thoughtful and it's correct in in a certain way but I I don't I don't I don't like um I don't like scarcity I like you know abundance and and kind of moving towards that like if we have we don't really have water issues um you know currently and even if we do develop the rest of Port Richie I'm not even sure if we would even have water issues then especially if we're making I don't think water supply it's the moving the wells the the high surface pumps the the parts back there it's that's the when you're sure using so much water that your wells are running 24 hours a day with no rest that's what the over with the new water plant it'll pump during the day leave enough in the water tank rest during the night that's what they're supposed to do pump during the day rest at night you know it's only to be irrigation water at night which is less than what is everybody using from day that now our water's down because obviously there's not that much people in the city right now using it sure so good if you have not toured the water plant I would suggest you get with Daryl and do that because if it I I did it and it was the two gentlemen that work back there are telling Sal yeah I know but but they their certifications they are so I have a class C they have class A's and very few cities have class a water treatment guys and they are so knowledgeable so I would highly suggest you guys go back there and and let they'll tore you around they they did me it was a complete eye opener on what they were proov since they've gotten there but also they're very knowledgeable in the water aspect of it take to the well field where you yep take it to the well fields and stuff so great guys so I think these are all good things it's just a matter of um what are those things that we want to push forward or recommend forward and I think you know we're kind of getting a feel for what that is and that was the intent of that to look at those things from a a permability perspective and are there things that we shouldn't preclude that we may preclude now or things that we should encourage that we don't encourage so those are recommendations that we can make to council and to the city what I what I was sort of um you know after I kind of looked into that you know I kind of you know segwayed there um and I was looking into you know because of obviously the flood it's top of mind you know and how we mitigate that for um you know I'm looking at I'm looking at some new construction you know that's happening around the city you know and I see these like studs these 2x4s you know they're they're not pressure treated they think they're pressure treated and uh you know it's it's just a garage it's on the first floor but number one it's too low I don't know why we even allow garages to be built that low right and also too why are we using anything but pressure treated lumber for the bottom floor right and why aren't we sealing up the studs and why are we and why aren't we mandating that we we should be waterproofing everything you know that's you know going to be destroyed basically what happened to you know everybody you know in the storm we should be looking to try to waterproof these things seal up the studs with some kind of sealant epoxy elasto mer redard whatever um you know maybe instead of uh you know fiberglass uh you know insulation maybe close cell spray fil would probably be a good you know good look um and uh you know even like for wind ratings and things like that you know instead of using a 2x4 you know why don't we mandate any kind of you know outside um Lumber be a 2x6 instead of 2x4 because it adds so much strength you I'm doing a doing a home right now from 1965 and I'm looking at I didn't even notice this it looked kind of funny to me but the stud size is just different it's a real 2x4 in it's it's a real 2x4 and it's hardwood too it's not this crap we buy at the store well I think one of the reasons why I kind of move towards this area is that if there's rebuilding going on what are those recommendations that we should put forward to make things more resilient should we consider uh making recommendations to people that come into build should we be putting things as an enhancement to the building code to make things more stringent I don't know that answer but if we get a list of things that we think are important understand the cost ramifications associated with it and then is it something that we want to push forward as a recommendation or do we want to push it forward as a encouragement to revise the code in the city so so but that that was kind of my my short list in my head and if we want to maybe discuss that like a little bit you know sealing of the studs you know instead of drywall maybe Hardy Board 500 you know and um you know 2 by sixes instead of 2x4s also there's a greater r value there potential because you can obviously fill the Gap you know you know uh more you know with six inches than of four um and um and uh but so just for argument sake so for new construction right it should be up anyway right you shouldn't have new construction on the ground in the water in the flood plane so I'm with you my house is block up to the first floor right and so I've got very small part around the steps from the garage the house from the original house and it's just 2 by por right there and and they're the crappy 2x4 you know house built 2004 or whatever but those aren't those aren't damaged every time you they've been wet twice since I've been here and and there's no damage to those right they just dry out and they're fine I wish they were like in his house and real tox4 treated Le Lumber and all that stuff but I guess my point is what we're describing in large part is how people are rebuilding ground floor houses right now right those are the ones that are rebuilding using the the cheapest material that they can get because what they can afford to do new construction already has those requirements it's it's more the the rebuilding ones they can't afford to do a lot of the stuff you're talking about for the for the upper for the Upper Floor you know obviously that's that's high but what I'm kind of saying is is we we we have these houses you know built on block and that's good right um but the problem is is the ground floor of these homes that are built on block that are raised up on St or whatever you want to call it um they're too low and we still utilize the bottom floor so what I'm saying is if we use better materials and and you might not have you might have a very simple downstairs in my house I have a little more going on you know and um and I have a lot of kind of work I got to do you know to fix it and um you know and and I'm going to do this on on my own stuff you know and I'm and I think that you know this this the clean up from the storm is probably a s CH but I think that we should be looking at elevations of homes in general from the garage floor from the bottom floor because we we keep our cars there we keep our Teslas if we if we're into that they can blow up it's a huge huge problem but we should be elevating these properties as much as possible um with obviously with drainage in mind and uh and trying to mitigate some of these things so we don't have you know even if your your your house is upstairs your shop or your your laundry or your your stuff is is higher let me more resilient we're having a great conversation um are we focusing on the new development or are we talking about about the existing and what we can do are we talking about both do we have a bias one way or the other that we can take offline and go work I don't I don't think we're gonna I don't think we're gonna Ram this through to the council agre and get it done and I don't think we even need to do that right now because this was kind of a 60-year eye opener for us know but I think that moving forward we should we should try to mitigate this because I'm seeing new construction that's and it's not good and we need to fix it because so so let's come down with some okay if we look at the code and this is what's required for new construction and it's not adequate right okay they're not doing as resilient as it should be let's highlight those things and let's get it listed and let's have that as our next discussion yeah and and even like even like the fact that you know we're talking about elevations of the roads you know you know we're we're building new homes that are not that are not high enough for what the future is going to look like on the base floor you know what I mean just on the garage yeah I wish I wish they'd have brought in you know about 75 D truck for the fil in my I wish my house 2004 had been built four feet higher most of them Builders are going to throw it on a homeowner to raise it because you get the lot as is you can go around on the east side of 19 and some of these and some of these homes sit in a bowl like that the driveway just comes just that's what I'm talking about and there's no V's in a lot of these dve if you go around go outside of here and just go out there spring whatever you the first 10 feet of every driveway where they come together like this there's a v right that's supposed to be every house is supposed to require that that's for the the water come this water come this and they it goes down the SS like that you know I got a house on Damon Lane that you know has caused kind of a huge flooding issue on on my street you know we talked to the old building official about it you know we had made several comments to the building department about you know hey like this is where all the water goes um you know we have to mitigate this Etc you know can we put in a drain here before the structure goes up before the foundation was done and nothing was done and it's you know the flooding is like horrendous and Daryl's been you know keeping up with this and bringing the the sucking truck and we have um we actually have an engineered quote on doing that doing that road so good I appreciate weo but but that but that house for instance the electrical panel nearly got flooded you know that should be way up and the bottom floor of that house is is is like right at the grade of the road where it floods so you know naturally it got you know four feet of water in it this is a brand new home that this guy paid almost 700,000 for you know and it's like we we our building Department's not you know helping people say okay we live in a flood zone we need to bring this thing up and you need to make adequate drains to be able to mitigate this because this will help the home be more resilient moving forward in the future that that's kind of I'm like a practical guy you know I see things in the in the in the community and I'm like well that's you know we should probably mitigate that and change that we should Elevate this well we should come up with something that is something that we can give to the building department of things people are coming in and looking to develop new or or buying in the community and we have a list of things that you want to consider to help make your place more resiliency more resilient here's a thing here's a list of things you want to consider if that's something we want to move forward I'm okay with that so let's just take let's take that let's work on that work on that yeah okay and then and we can move that forward okay I'm excited about that that's something that's I would suggest you all look at the Town Hall we had last week which was almost two hours with only um Chris Chris here yeah um He's a brave guy and all the building official stuff because it's not only it's not really just the building official it's a lot of the citizens that are not also complying and it it's it's it's a combination so and there's a lot of good information in that um discussion and it was for two Chris was started out real upset of course understandably so and by the end of it it was more of a of a information give and take back and forth um so I would it was two hours and I don't we all don't have two hours to watch but I I would suggest it it was really good info because a lot of it is not just us it's FEMA guidelines it's not it's not us being pain in the neck it's it's FEMA and FEMA does have guidelines for how much you can raise it and you're not supposed to have the first floor garage and have a playroom and you're not want to go put a garage door on their home and they would Deni because it's not supposed to have a garage door and that's not a Port Richie roomle you could move to Newport Richie it's not a Newport Richie rule it's a fever rule so there's a lot of bit information so I would suggest sure regarding flood um it wasn't everything but it was at least good a good uh conversation back and forth I was given all the things that going on and that's kind of a moving Target right now staying away from that if we could and trying to take the longer longer term view because there's a lot of Dynamics going on right now and I thought we didn't need to have that conversation again yes so so are you good as far as coming up with I'm excited about that I think that's great I think that's great moving forward really all right I spoke with Michael fatini I don't I'm sorry if I screwed that up um Park Ranger war a voice yep I asked him if he would like to come to the meeting he said he would love to okay he doesn't know um how much he can do he might have to run it up the chain sure but I told him a little bit I told him to maybe expect a phone call from you that you were very knowledgeable and and you could okay talk to him but um he was more than willing to come um I left him two messages about tonight I only spoke to him last week okay um so I I I guess he just couldn't make it tonight but I'm I'll I'll call him I got his number on my phone and if you want to give him a holler but he was very he was very excited about um the resilience because I guess he that he lives back there his whole shop is still four foot of um seethrough yeah because he he he of course got inundated back there as well so I'm very excited to come work with us and see what we have to do okay good good good good dear I got over your I got you you saw the elevations I I can get you any so that's just a snapshot so yeah well I had to insert them all in there okay so that's St so you'll see the ones where I put on the house that's actually the elevation of the house okay elevation of the street you can see our streets were only 3 foot in some are some some 5 feet above sea level right and and one house and I gave Bay boulev I don't know if everybody saw it one house on Bay Boulevard is a 53 our road is only like a 46 and the bottom of the sale is like two something and then you go down to at Bay and uh oost where that drain comes out right there where I put it it's at a five I think was it seven so it's yeah it's only half inch above sea level or half fo above sea Lev CAC completely fills up with water on harvest tiddes this time of year so like Island after this I have the map in my truck that has all the everything from over the years so we could pinpoint wi if you want to look how about next meeting why don't we do a little bit further look on the whole yeah roads piece of the equation because that was really the bottom line are there things that we need to do with the roads in the immediate term to buy us a more consistent level so I'm not you know high and then go swimming and then come back up again so from the short term maybe that's a those bottom those swes I think on Bay Boulevard or like a two something it was like a 25 I remember correctly I have the if I need to look at only 2 and half ft above sea level so they're going to f i got real good visual of that coming in at 6 in the morning on the morning after the flood because there was just you could just see where you go and me and mat are working on some in-house things uh with engineering firms bridging Wilkins down to Old Post to co Road figuring that whole thing out uh Damon Lane's one of them if you guys haven't heard we just did Blue Point Canal you did what Blue Point Canal oh all that so up to 60 feet off of Old Post Road three feet down nice da I saw the debris D no I saw yeah yeah we you have to put those up how how did we get that done by the way how was that um so I had a contractor come in since uh use it per through the state everything so was that like a trash pump deal or just dug it out dug it out from a storm water standpoint yes that's wonderful and and we cleaned out all three 30 in pipes so nice lot of lot of stuff in those pipes not not as much as you would think a lot of it was there was a lot of builtup on the east side of Old Post uhuh where was restricted and obviously if you were by the west side of w verying low tide you would know you would see how uh how high it was but that's all down all taken down three feet nice and that's that's because that's where the drainage pipe comes and it flows through now so we that's good now yeah we talked about blue point on it um another spot is DJ Limestone through olner to Mallet over to B's court so it all flows through um CL of that up P Street Sunset Boulevard and Chapel I got all quotes are just kind of good that's um I uh have not had any success with Newport Richie I have uh have an alternate course of action that I'm going to pursue in the in the next piece but um I've kind of I've done my follow-ups and it's still Lays by the side and I've got the potential angle that may shake things up a little bit so it'll either go very well or it will blow up in my face I'm not sure which it's going to be but uh so by next time I'm hoping to uh have some information for you on that on that note um comp plan piece I don't know if you had a chance look at it you may be more familiar with than everybody else but you guys may not have seen it but U uh couple of things that I highlighted because of our conversation last time around storm water was um in in a number of areas uh basically that what kind of water and land practices need to be in place to reduce storm water runoff and ened percolation so these are things that are in the comp plan but what I don't know in the Land Development code I don't find anything specific associated with that not tied together right so I see the desire but I don't see what you want to do all right so if we want to reduce storm water runoff what are those things in the that should be in the Land Development code is my interpretation unless somebody has some insights about it that I didn't see so I highlighted that uh if they exist or not uh maximize recharge of developed land and ensure protection of wetlands and recharge so maximize recharge of developed land so that's assuming that there's something there so what do we what can we do in that Arena um or the question is how do we do that um Land Development uh should limit lot coverage and imperious surface I don't see anything that deals with that but that's something I've got some information on in my piece but that was a vision in the code there's no way to execute it so is it something we should bring forward or maybe we'll work with Planning and Zoning uh on that that's another question and I'll bring that up here in a moment um there was a number of things in the code and I've seen excuse me in the comp plans that talk about like hardwood hammocks and wetlands category one two and three I'm not sure any one or two that are around are because of the size yeah the only one that' be probably close to us is Sal okay so there's things in the comp plan that kind of confusing for me because we do boilerplate you know anything so um the other thing is uh an interesting one that I saw that I've considered is the encouragement of planting native vegetation in front of sea walls which translates to magr um I've done a lot of reading on it I hear good things about it my question would be is that what do we do to minimize the critters that come with is there something that we can well and there's also the issue of if you play like where they just you go mangr that that Canal doesn't exist in four years right right they just grow across and cover create like a map huh they create a map yeah right even even at 3 feet it's not well with the mangroves and if they get too big you have to be a certified off yeah but even if it's a man-made Canal so we're losing you know those those freaking things man they're like example Limestone you know by the marina why that doesn't drain is because it takes a while the M that's grown yep over it so I got with the arist and we're going to try and just lift the meshing up on it to let the water flow back through because a m girl just they create like a bad of just they good for erosion control but Gody protecting from stor surge they they do but it's it's a it's a you know there's there's actually good good things about mangroves but you almost can't mess with them because there's so much regulation protecting them over you know but the goddamn things grow everywhere I mean because of the flood I got them popping up all over my property in just the most random places seats go everywhere yes but I know it's from a from a how you protect sea line Seashore it is the it is a it is much more attractive now than bringing in a bunch of rocks or some kind of artificial fill or concrete or whatever right is much much more attractive just when you said in front of seaw wall I'm just reading off the C plan I know I know all right but so I think what I look at is the fundamental Challen just when I I look at our Coastline and I believe the solution isn't one thing for everywhere right okay but where the solutions are we ought to encourage is the part that I'm hoping that we can get to maybe the conversation with Pasco canning will help right given that there's some more knowledgeable people and I know with the uh the state he talked about a biologist that is available that you know those are the kind of people say okay that works here it's really not practical there so we could at least get some ideas that let's consider that here let's not consider that there and maybe we bake those things into the zoning code like I don't know but just trying to get some things on it um let's see so those are some things that I saw in the comp plan that I thought you know apply to us that if we could figure out how do we make it happen so uh what I did was kind of with that context uh you know we're not reading that as you sit by right well if you want to read it I thought just letting you know that's good now the question is 90% quite that all right so um from our conversation last time I thought putting some ideas on paper might be helpful maybe it's something that uh I wanted um we're really here to make recommendations to city council so but when we're working cooperatively with other parts of the city like Planning and Zoning how do we want to do this do we want to get with planning and zoning and try to come up with a solution do we want to toss it over the wall planning and zoning and let them work on stuff do we want to take it to city council cooperatively so I want you to think about how we should move things forward what do you think is going to be the most effective way to do that as we go through this conversation okay so I just like pay that in for for groundwork here so um basically from a planning zoning standpoint how we build the amount of impervious surface was one of the things that I've had a hang up on because I've done some storm water work in the past at the county level and what I didn't like is that I allow the developers to come in and do their designs based on 50% hard surface but then after you buy the house you can do whatever you darn well pleased so in that I've over capati the storm water at that time nobody cares MH right except the guy that's getting flooded next door all right and why that's happening everybody pleads ignorance on so that's always annoyed me to a degree um so how we build um you know how do we maximize open space how do we do things for peration that's another uh area so what we wanted to do is you know better prepare for resiliency and protecting the resources and how to recover faster which I think is a key thing overall especially if we're going to get tagged on a regular basis um this is all fairly not familiar I think with people uh adaption strategies that we can use protection hard and soft structural that's our green and gray kind of stuff accommodation uh but how do we basically not have a barrier kind of what we were talking about earlier Devon but how do we encourage things to occur in maybe a different way than they would typically do uh so uh I know on the elevating structures piece there's limited resources to be able to do that so how do we go about um going after that um do we incentivize people to do things how do we go about it the avoidance piece is an interesting one where do we say know okay that we don't want you to build down at Harbor Isles anymore because um that's going to be underwater so any new construction there is for boating any property that comes available I don't know I'm just I don't think we should I don't think we have any of that in our city that we should probably like I think everything that's platted in our city we should try to get built some at some point in time because we have a very limited amount of land you know correct correct I mean that's the constraint um that we have to deal with but how we build maybe that's something that we look at we encourage so I mean if you go around at least in my immediate area you find people that had very little impact and you had other people that had a whole lot of impact that maybe shouldn't have all right uh and then you have the old guard that you know you're toast anyway you look at it um so the interesting part of this is I alluded to it earlier is what we propose is kind of a function of what we have so making it fit is what we have to figure out having that blanket statement that applies to the river the coast the oton area the Bayou I don't know if that's reasonable or feasible so how do we get down to that level to say this makes sense here it's it's economically viable it's technically Fe feble uh so how do we how do we look at that so what I was looking at here was what kind of regulations could or should be in place so should there be additional things in the flood plane uh or flood way because floodway has a different meaning than flood plane um from the the FED side so what are those minimum standards that should be in place uh to help res I don't believe we have any zoning overlay areas other than the Waterfront is that a correct statement that's the only one I know I think so yeah I think you're right yeah so the way they talk collectively is that this can be a really useful tool I don't know how Planning and Zoning has looked at this into place but maybe we look along the river as one or around the bou as one you know if there's different things that we come across that are effective maybe this is something we should consider uh is coming up with more specific recommendations or whatnot in a particular area um and certainly flood pay management stuff this is I think part of the struggle that we're going through now is we're trying to get points but then these things don't aren't effective um so and but come back to open space that was another area so um what was I going on this okay so things like green roofs I don't know if you can build a green green roof here right about like grass on there I don't know what the heck what is a what is a what is you're talking about like green Walls too where they and they build they put like a thing of Jasmine as the wall instead of instead of building a brick wall it's they do it they do it over in like England and stuff a lot right so are there this goes back to are things precluded or not how do we keep it open so there's other things the one I found interesting was the building design Modular Buildings can more easily be moved renovated and deconstructed as a community or tenant needs change or as climate related impacts change interesting concept we preclude mobile homes manufacturing homes in many of our areas are we looking at this wrong because we know that those stand up the Hurricanes just as well as in the past but if they're easier to move and relocate or whatnot maybe in some areas that's what we should encourage being done versus a traditional stick built home that you can't move without Dynamite so again this is just to stimulate thought processes um uh on here when I was down in Cuba what their comments were the only building stands up to a hurricane is a concrete buil building walls roof yeah Puerto Rico's like thato Puerto Ric can't build anything without a concrete roof either yeah so you know are these things that we should uh be putting out there uh acquisition of land I think is an interesting one conservation e mins for the storm water piece um byouts of frequently flooded property I don't know if we've had any conversations about that on CRA I didn't think so um so what I did was try to look at it from a standpoint of for example so if I look at our residential zoning front re set backs at 25 ft side backs at 515 total pool five from the water building coverage I saw something in there that's translated 35% of the property but if you look at a house for us in Port Richie that translates to 2400 to 2700 Square ft 400 ft of driveway in pool that gives you coverage of the 52 to 56% just on the basis that's not C sidewalks or big patios or any that stuff the county if you look at their sitbs 30 30 15 15 um much more green space available and one of the things that I looked at is you took a look at we said a th000 equivalent residential units in the city if we applied that concept what the county has versus what we do we could acquire another 17 to 24 Acres of permeable ground water aborption versus right so my intent was here to at least what if okay but are there things like this you're assuming if you built if you leveled everything and built everything back up anything I built new or if you wanted to add a pool to your place all right or take one out yeah what what do we want to do this is more complicated area but this is where um I'm just talking about that bottom units so 1923 units you if you the increase you're talking about would have to be if all of them were built to the county code versus the city code I just took a thousand okay I said some of those are yeah okay I figured some of most of those are residential units versus multi- units because I was just I didn't have a number and I didn't want to call thatt so uh so anyway the concept here was is there something we could do in the Planning and Zoning to enhance our ability I know in the Waterfront overlay it was a big deal about having hard paved areas versus permeable but over the last five years the big talk on commercialist have permeable so you don't have to deal with the storm water run our codes don't allow that go to what permeable parking yeah yeah no because I remember a conversation when Seaside a couple people ago when seide was first being built and those gentlemen were there they were extending the parking lot towards gildogs and they had the parking lot had to be had to be per had to be I was and a Gentleman yeah and for residential um on land candle light they he put a big um one of the big I call it industrial garage for his RV and stuff like that and I spoke to Mike at the the time when it was being built and he had to maintain 40% some about Jerry yeah yeah 40 big building or whatever on on Kline how how to maintain the 40% um permeable so and he and he did that so and that was enforced that was just a year or two ago okay so so there is there is something in there about that okay so there maybe it's more flexible I just didn't know but I was looking at the setbacks piece because if somebody's coming in on new property what do we want to do there or if I'm rebuilding so I'm I know a couple houses are being torn down all right so do we want to do something or do we want to make recommendations in this area so that was the intent there the other thing that I looked at had to do with the storm water piece in total and one of my things is I don't want to reinvent the wheel because I want to be able to do on on something that's relatively accept able but for present day design it's 25 hour 25 year 24hour um and I'm going back to our well discussion all right which is why don't we get with the county and any major development here and say no no no no no no let's treat it as a closed Basin I want you to hold your water for at least 24 hours because what Matt talked about and I think you mentioned darl last time was that with Milton and helain they were two different events one was water from Inland one was water from the coast well if I have the combination that's a serious problem so if I can hold things for 24 hours I still may get screwed but if I can hold it for 24 hours by upping the capacity in the city that would be great but more importantly what I'd like to do is go to the county and say within two miles of the Coast all right to get more resiliency and this is a conversation that I'd have with bell is because they're doing their storm water study now it's like what are we going to do along this line to protect the coast better for a period of time we're not talking for 500 years we're talking up your standard a little bit to buy us something okay so that's where that was coming in on this side of town it's hard for us to hold water because our elevation so low right that when if we get a two foot three foot tide coming in that's why you see the water coming in on it's going to be hard to hold water because when it rains that's you see water even happens on Limestone Dedra bends just even the water just sits there but you're talking about getting the county to hold storm water right so if you had Milton and Helen were the same storm if the water comes in and we've got the rain water run off at the same time then we would have had way more water than we had right we need we need the water from the new developments out in West pascot to not come here for a period of time well we get a lot of US1 19 as well well that's where our conversation last time with the state of Florida hey guys come up with a solution here to hold your water all right for 24 hours all right uh for the 100 year uh you know changing things up a little bit I don't want to make it impossible for you but what I want you to do is make it more resilient than it is today and this is an easy thing that we can I think we can point to and say this is what we'd like to do as creating a life preserver around Newport Richie I'm sorry Port Richie and probably Newport Richie too but Fort and I'd go to the watersheds myself but I didn't want to get there I just said two miles for at least at least from De West we should be holding any water there right that should just go yeah it should be able any water we didn't hold any water for Milton the water was still proban right but I think it given how the count is working all right yeah and the general thought is when they do storm water development is that I'm not an enclosed Bas and I'll handle what I traditionally handle but then if it goes more than that I'm dumping it to you so I've got a dumping project through Magnolia Valley and the work that we're doing across 19 they're shipping it our way thank you very much so what I'd like to do is say guys hey let's let's do something here figure out how to you buy some land and figure out how to hold it back for the 100e 24-hour event well they they are widening that you know they're working on it right now going to uh the park Salt Springs or whatever well the the storm water system that it goes through and where it runs through isn't city of porich area not all Springer and everything we don't that's that's all Pasco Road some the where Auto on that field where it comes through that Dam where that's all that's all Pasco County our storm doesn't water do go into that at all which it should we should be able to since you are paning it pushing it back to us up at Salt Springs but where I was trying to go was okay there's things that we can potentially do trying to get with planning zoning or how do we want to move these kinds of things forward are these are are any nuggets like this that we need to package better update counsil on up get some more facts to bring to the table I'm trying to test the waters here what do you guys think on how do you want to move stuff forward and is there anything here that we want to move forward or it's not ready for prime time yet we could put bigger we can to to h a lot of this water you could put bigger storm pipe in instead of the little two foot ditch that we have you know if if you put a 36 inch pipe in like how it's almost standard it's you'll almost out of mind a lot of a lot of pan down the Miami cing to get rid of these SWS where it all just flows to right and pretty much on the side of the road up and down up and down the road that's what I think we should do on our on our busier roads what if we had from the drainage Canal you just cleaned out that under Bay Boulevard we created a drainage capability that's 24 feet wide and 3et deep under the full road all the way up that's what I was talking about with the Miami curbing with the p inlets and then that will take it and you can take it down to Coons and have it have it drained down there or wherever you need to wherever the best place for us to drain it whatever the lowest part yeah whatever the lowest part is for us that doesn't pump that doesn't float into the canal because if you put a bigger pipe in we're already we're only 5 feet above sea level right well by the time you get the fall obviously the bigger pipe you need you don't need as much fall as you would with the smaller pipe the bigger pipe you can almost run it flat and it'll it'll drain but by the time you put that pipe in you're going to be well we know we need to do something with B okay let get to the elevations get little ahead don't want to go there but just leave this food for thought right but if we had to raised Bay Boulevard and we raised it and elevated it over a drainage system under the road yeah okay complete curve to curve so 24 feet of drainage 36 in 48 in I don't care all right at that low slope that's a lot of drainage capacity that can bring stuff out in that funnel out okay so how would that impact the houses on Bay you can't build it higher than them you'll flood them unless you Crown the road well that's what I was asking would you have would we have to go down while you couldn't but a lot of those houses pitch to the pitch to the street anyway so what the some of them only like a foot above the road see this is where we need the elevation conversation because if we get that and say we able to raise the road 12 in for compensation sure does that get us to our 2070 intermediate level or not that road still drive okay but where does it gets sure okay so I think that's the question so if we have some design that we can bring it up we determine we can only bring it up 12 inch or six inch or whatever is it worthwhile to do okay or is it better to Band-Aid stuff because we can't do it right or we work something to get those homes those Low homes out and up I don't know but if you have drainage under the roads risk of flooding those houses even if raise the road goes down right they're better off with the raage road the realage system than they are today open dra system no drainage system and that just floods so the raising the road doesn't by itself FL the house it does if you don't you're talking about with drain right you can accomplish the the idea of getting the road higher so it's dry right but improve the drainage for themselves themselves same time I think but I mean I'm not a storm water guy not even than you and I'm looking at stuff where I can get you know wider sidewalks get rid of the open swes right get a better Road that's at an elevation that buys me some time okay and it may be radically different than what we see and maybe I you know figure out a way to so the intersection at Bay Boulevard and old poost is at a 36 that manhole that's not in the road though is it yeah it's right yeah it's right there it's only out of 36 yeah the manle that's in the road that's the one in the road that didn't make sense to me because the Bell to the east pitching it's pitching the way these manholes are everything the roads actually pitching towards Green Street but the water stands to the east of old coast and the elevations did not no this I'm talking about on Bay Boulevard that's what I'm talking about on Bay Boulevard to the east of Old Post is where the belly is so the water comes across here goes down and flows that way just fills the pipe up and flows that way and flows towards 19 right the elevations and it looked higher on bate Boulevard to the east of Old Post and you're talking about on qu and stuff right because Quist is at a 49 449 which is which is almost a foot taller than Bay and old poost all I know is when I come in Bay Boulevard and there's heavy rains I can't go down Bay Boulevard because there's a belly there the in front of the apartment that's closed off there because you can't there's no eess I think where you're talking about I think is where the road does this the whole road is covered it's not the in front of Pelican Bay or whatever that yeah yeah the road pitches like this that's why you see the roads all eight up yeah it pitches that way but this section right here yes is what's always closed right now it have been closed lately but that I perceive as being the evacuation B here because if I had to bug out and I had heavy rains before that could very well be closed and I can't send people that way and the only thing is to come down this way so that's to me a serious uh evacuation issue that if we're going to deal with Road things and that height that minimum height I think we need to look at but anyway we'll do that next time yeah right because I think we've had enough conversation maybe put them in a in a import order you know rank them one two three whatever right but that's why I always thinking about the elevation so um you know there there's the storm water things there's water quality stuff there's this and then maybe we can get into so the road pitches like that kind of towards this road this road pitches sou to North that's why you see in some of these that's why you see that pitches that way right same with down here where is it at there's like little Cuts in the in the uh sidewalk was for the water to go right but this is why this Road's all ate up right because the water the water the W the the salt water and it's just eating this this one travel the other the other lane the eastbound Lane is good it's the westbound Lane that's bad no poose right because the water just gets just keeps popping the asphalt water gets in between it right well that goes to another thing is that which I have a mitigation guy coming to look at so City we shouldn't be spending any government money or state money on things that are going to be damaged by the storm so what kind of Road are we going to put in right to me that's the fundamental question it's certainly not going to be asphalt because we know what happens to that so what is it should be concrete should be concrete yeah what about brick no what the brick pop to yeah brick brick brick shifts and moves where was Concrete where it's all tied in with rebar and it's also too with this you could and if you go down old post if you look at Old Post before V Bay was built it was fine after V Bay was built if you just go back and look at the M it was a lot of this is from these trucks these bigger trucks coming in just tearing they're just they're coming to the stop signs they sliding and it just takes that's why if you notice on truck routes what are the intersections because the truck just teared up and I think a lot of this along with the water with this and O post was done because when the V Bay got built right that was a big conversation back then when it was being built whether how bad the road old post was let's let's pick this conversation up next time as far as Road piece I think we have some homework to do um any thought after this conversation how do we if Sean comes next time um be thinking about do we want to toss it over do we want to refine it further cooperatively with Planning and Zoning do we want to re Council on the current thinking just give some thought to that would would it be a good idea to also ask the building official that knows the codes to come when Sean comes because a lot of times we're saying we don't know the code we don't know you know we don't know the specifics of the code would that be beneficial or no the the develop I would think on the first one maybe not okay yeah um but then when we get to the the development uh codes on where we want to go on that I think I I think it's as far as your first question which has been how do you carry this forward how do you make a recommendation and then like the planning and zoning and then building codes I think it's important for us to get big picture stuff ideas and then figure out what's the best forward right because it's going to be different for each one and planning and zoning I think we've got to get that part of it nailed down first and kind of give it perspective of this is kind of generally what we're trying to do and then get more specific and then you can get toiling codes down the road right that's my my thought on yeah because that was my thought all along any new development how do we make sure we're putting the right things out for 20 40 years yeah they need to capture all the storm water before it comes to us all these new developments and commercials and property stuff like that I think that's huge they should have their own Dr sites they should have their own you go on any of these new subdivisions getting built they take some of these dras take up a whole street right one side of the street lately now they're building the dras behind houses and just buting up against because they get more out of it right right so if you notice and that was I know I've heard rumors of you know development here development there but what are we insisting on are they operating under the current is there something that needs to be more stringent that's where I'm going right let's get something on the books there if if we can because storm water is huge yes right do I have a motion to um end the meeting motion to adour Second all in favor very good thank you guys little run there but thank you Ashley go home go home we'll leave everything here I fix house amount of Sur you have and addition you're going to have