##VIDEO ID:QGvhdth5me0## w Wai I ni yeah exactly it's okay it people who usually got a got got a questionable reputation amongst individuals city council Workshop Amica stand [Music] clerk have rooll please Mayor John Eric Hoover here vice mayor Linda Rodriguez here councilman David Mueller here councilman Robert hubard let the record show that councilman Robert hubard is absent from today's meeting councilwoman Lisa Burke here City attorney Nancy Meyer here city manager Matthew cobbler here thank you okay first up comments from General Public is there any comments from General Public that's your chance George okay bring it back um moving on to com manager I'll pass it to miss C comments yeah I think uh if it's okay we'll go from here into a forerunner okay it's okay sure um so I know that there had been a number of questions asked about Forerunner and uh recently had a meeting with them and they went over some of the different changes that theyve made to the software and uh one of them to interact directly with you so a you could ask any questions uh or have any concerns address it with them and they can also kind of give an overview of what the changes were that uh were made here recently that I think correct some of the issues maybe some of you had seen I believe Grace is on the line so if you don't mind Grace I'm gonna turn it over to you to kind of talk about uh what changes were made to the software yeah and I believe Matthew is speaking right I believe so yes yeah okay we're not we're not sure yes my name is Grace I oh saying can you hear me okay my name isne I work at for Runner um I'm a customer success associate I'm the main point of contact for for Richie app for Runner um so I would love to share bit more of the recent updates that um and then I would also just point out I'm joined by Liz Russell who the director of customer success Lucy Randall who works with our product team she's a product manager so she really facilitates these updates and then conol our Hazard aent Le um in terms of the most relevant updates uh to the work that PO Richie has been doing uh the last meeting I had with Veronica um Matthew and I believe K and present um was to disc C discuss the updates to our substantial damage estimate tool um so the team is very clearly working very diligently and with the damage assessment team to go through port regie and contuct those estimates our Tool uh the updates we made um there were two one of them was to streamline the summies that of the SD will comprise this after it's completed so the D is out they fill out um the forms with the relevant information about the property and the Damage um and then when they finish and submit that form there is a summary presented of the estimates and the Damage cost and we just kind of streamlined that so it is a more concise summary that relates hopefully the information much more clearly in terms of the damage cost the basis for the replacement cost and then separately the basis for the market value of the property and then the actual percent damage of the market of the U property by taking that damage cost and that property market value that's just a summary kind of refresher making it clear and concise we actually got a lot of great feedback and fory on that is that clear yes okay and then the other update that we rolled out um was again something to make the work a bit easier for not only the Port Richie team but everyone out there doing the sdes um before the logic was that when an sde substantial damage estimate was completed an Associated record of substantial damage would be logged in the account but those are kind of separate actions um and now the SD form within the form itself there's an additional widget at the end that incorporates property market value so when the assessors out in the field doing that substantial damage estimate they're really determining the damage cost based on the replacement cost of that structure um as is you know outlined by F but um we added a widget towards the end because substantial damage and that threshold is determined using the property market value um and so that we know that different values can be used to calculate the replacement cost versus the property market value so now Al to say that additional widget makes it a lot simpler so that when the damage assessor completes that substantial damage estimate in the field they click the property market value source so that that Associated damage record automatically just logs the correct property market value instead of being two separate processes lots of manual checking um hopefully it's just a bit so so on that Grace the the 15% bump to to adjust so it doesn't show that anywhere on so just I guess going back so I actually looked at several properties um and the percentages were way off and so what you said the first time around I've checked several of them and they're all spoton I mean exactly the way it should be um the only thing it doesn't expose in the in the portal anyway it shows the under the overview tab it shows the Improvement value uh but it doesn't show I guess would be nice since that's kind of in there if there was somewhere on on here that it would show um the new base market value adjustment or whatever so that you could actually see that number that would actually correlate back to that percentage because otherwise people would take their Improvement value potentially um and that percentage wouldn't show up because it's it's 15% less than based on our calculation or whatever entity would do it' be nice to have a a thing on there to show that that additional markup yeah Lucy do you have comment on that Lucy actually deals with like the product directly yeah can everybody hear me okay awesome yeah are you just to clarify the question you would want to on the overview tab be able to see that actual assessed value so the tax adjusted value that's coming from the assess rather than just the Improvement value no that's not it yeah I think that's what she saying the assessed value well no we want market value well the assess values on there not not this well so assess value is not on there so you have a valuation the assessed value is is after they reduce um any deductions for Homestead whatnot I guess it's probably what you're thinking right well what we're looking at is we're looking at um the Improvement Value Plus any adjustments to that for the purposes of the substantial damage so a market adjustment in this case yeah I think that's a super great call out we do on the and also the sis form have that market adjusted Improvement value um and so it's that Improvement value that we're pulling from the taxor office as you mentioned and then we're adjusting that value and we're surfacing that on the forms themselves when folks are filling them out um but then we're also pulling that Improvement value information in from the tax assessor at kind of a regular payment and suring that on the overview of the property as well I yeah you could and maybe the best place to put it is on sisd Tab right um where that instead of having to go back between overview and that you you probably should just carry that over as the adjusted market value it's based on those percentage that way all those numbers are right there but again if even if it was in overview that'd be helpful but probably the best place is have sisd tab I would think right so you can independently calculate that and say okay that 18% is 18% of what you know it's the Improvement value uplifted by 1.1 15 if that's the number or other number somebody establishes is the value right and then the the other thing I don't know if if this capability is here because obviously this is a a consumer facing portal does it have the ability to have the the backup documentations linked in here that you can pull those up or is it just a summary and that's all you can provide so in terms of the public basing website what what's available on that yes is it possible that you can actually select hey I want to expose uh the appraisal what came in the actual uh damage assessment where they're going through like the billly official goes out he he runs some numbers and and makes adjustments based on what he sees at the property but none of that's exposed here it's um it's just a number wait a minute let me clarify something also because I heard you say something with this uh this update to this you have a tool where somebody's going to go in and put damage to flooring damage to walls damage to electric and then you're going to aggregate that to some value right there's a tool that somebody's going to go and utilize right did you hear that sorry what is the question so there's a there's a tool that they use in the field when the billing Spector goes is that right Tony you guys have like fill in the blanks you got a schedule of electrical wall damage appliances all those things and you aggregate those and you have a value that value gets put in the system and that becomes the substantial damage amount right yeah can that data be presented in the system either all the data there or that tab that somebody's filled the blanks in that has made the assessment or a file that reflects the detail adding up to that damage so in terms of the for the public website what of that data is exposed so we don't currently have on your public website I don't know if we we could do this right now we'd have to talk to product but we expose the substantial damage or substantial improvements of us particular property on the Port Richie website that's one of there's like an overview Tab and then there's the sisd tab where Property Owners can go and view Associated damages and improvements the actual estimate and the form is not there um that is um housed in a different you know part of the properties um information panel I don't know about bringing that in Lucy could speak to that potentially more in terms of having that all in one place um for the internal users a forerunner um there is a general tab that houses all inspections so there are two reports specifically that have been um drawn up for inter internal users like Veronica and the team where there are all of the SD forms and all the fields all the information that have gone into those estimates um for residential and non-residential um substantial damage estimates those can be exported it's as simple as we can export them from the system and send them to with them and you can do what you would like with those yeah whether you know the public comes in and wants to see it um or you yourself would like to see it um I don't know about actually exposing the SD form on the public website I don't believe we've done that yet but correct me if I'm wrong okay we have not done that but the damage record is there the damage record is just one number on a piece of paper that doesn't tell you anything except what the total is so not how you got there it sounds like to me it's not this the Portal's not configurable you can't just pick and choose what goes out there it is what what it is at this point is that correct you guys don't do any customer cannot configure what gets exposed um Sor so yeah can can the customer Us in this case are we able to configure what's Exposed on the portal or is it just out of the box this is what you get and you guys have to make modifications in order to put anything else on there um both so we can customize presently to a certain point in terms of exposing say like whole inspections like an SD that sounds like something we just have to work on to to facilitate for you at this point the easiest workr I can pick up off the top of my head is exporting all of the them for you in like CSV or an Excel file yeah one more thing so there's a on the portal there's three tabs there's overview which we talked about there's sisv we talked about there's also a files tab and I'm assuming that would be the supporting documents would be housed there but there's nothing in there what normally goes in files tab I guess yeah so that's where there's a level of customization so whichever files that the fory team uploads and would like to be made public can be made public on files I know that um Veronica requested the that the property images of high water marks were publicized so on certain properties you will probably see those under files um and other communities elevation certificates are very often listed there um and then other like flood proofing certificates maybe development we development permits and really anything you would like to surfice there um as a public file can be public sized we we do it you know at your discretion can this the substantial damage form that we would do ourselves be carved out into a file and exported and saved there as an individual Standalone file Lucy you think that's possible yeah I think that's great feedback and I they're talking about this summaries themselves being exported as like a PDF rather than the letters that are being right I think the letters need to be there as well um because because what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to establish an audit Trail right we got to go and prove some to somebody that we're doing this work I'm going to want to see letters the high water marks I would like to see the detailed calculation that says okay we've arrived at this by taking a b c and d and adding them up and if you're able to export uh certain fields and I'm assuming that they're with that tool at the end of that tool you have the summary of all the details that add to the total line item of of damage so that ought to be exported into a flat file that somebody could look at here and attach that's all saying who who somebody that's great that makes sense who's somebody I would I would think our people here that do the work they're reviewing the data attaching the files that that's part of their with normal part of workload talking about is just the customer facing so resident facing so we be for the residents to do that I mean all this we're talking about staff has access to that already for all those right what you guys are talking about is putting it now out into the public face inside and that's my question and that's my question you all the I would assume the city has all that backup documentation to support in in the it's in the system already on thank you um but why would I need to know if I understand your question Dave why would I need to know how much Lisa paid for flooring or how much Lisa as a neighbor not not as Council persons that's not what we're talking about okay that that's what I understood your question that's why I'm asking what we're talking about is somebody independently has made a determination that you got $100,000 worth of damage who like a building official well not somebody a building official okay it could be somebody else that we've got a whole host of people running around the city doing this and they're doing it from the road they're just throwing a hand grenade at the house and saying nope it's that much so how did you come up with the number one and I'm an auditor I want to see corresponding detail that adds to the total right and I agree that anybody with a public employed by Port Richie or working for Port Richie FEMA Etc but I understood your question is on the public side so that a neighbor could go look on a neighbor's paper is that not what you said I that's what I'm asking the question the damage report should be visible to anybody that needs to see it but that who what why is my neighbor on a need to know basis on what I paid for flooring I'm not gonna AR I'm not going to argue that the point is is it's public it's public record it should be made available the documents should speak for themselves and if you get discrepancies like I've seen I'd like to see how that comes out because this is a brand new um area for us and things don't appear to be being captured correctly it sounds like they fixed some things and in order to do that I'd like an export of this stuff so that I can reconcile the numbers I want to see how much in this city has been captured as damage compared to um how many have been tot you know substantial i' like see some of this these this information I'm not getting it I think as a not as a council as just regular City residents I don't think City residents need to go snooping on somebody else they have a question they can go to the city and ask them for that information that's that's not what it's about at all it's about how did somebody come up with a number why does one house have $20,000 significant damage and the other one has got a hundred side by side there's there's issues with way things are being calculated I want to see that one we're consistent you as a as a city employee no me as me as a city council person right okay to ensure that this city doesn't fail with uh FMA and lose its ability to have insurance in this area I want to ensure that we're going through the right process standard processes rates things look consistent as opposed to this house had $12 per square foot damage this one had 230 there's big discrepancies there and I don't know how that was arrived at all I have is a number on a piece of paper so without that supporting detail there's no way that it appears to me that we're doing a consistent level of review sure the difference is if one person allows you in to do the inspection versus somebody that won't let you in so now all you're doing is taking off of a high water mark That's the extent of how it's done that's the two ways to be done right and that's it so you could end up with $112,000 versus $100,000 but this information is not coming forward to the people if if I could so yeah to your to your point you know people going around and looking at other people's props whether you have that now right the ability is there now to go and see but what you don't see is that number so for example and it's it's really it just boils down to transparency really you've got a number on here house X had $10,000 worth the damage maybe the next door neighbor X house y had $50,000 that's a discrepancy right why is why is that $40,000 more well if you don't have that detail there to explain well he went out he inspected the house X and you know he realized that it was only 10,000 because he put his eyes on it and he saw the damage where's the other one from the road they wouldn't let him in and so based on the the square footage calculation it was a 6 4 85 times the square footage and that's why it was more but none of that if you don't have that on here for for public viewing an individual can't reconcile that and say well my next door neighbor only had 10,000 I'm showing 50,000 what's what's the deal here so if that if that's there they can answer their own question as opposed to phoning in and say hey what's going on my neighbor is way lower than me and then you know that would that would answer those questions so that would be one thing again you're not seeing what they're paying for their flooring and all that although on the on the building permit side you can see all that anyway if you go out there but if it get a building permit it's all listed out there on that side but from the substantial damage I think it is important that there is some amount of detail shown as how that number was derived so as the public goes out here and looks at this um it makes sense and I can also say that when this before they made the change I went out to look at my property and I could not I could not get that percentage to match no matter what I what I Ran So I had to call had extensive conversation with Matt and Tony and even after that it it got close to that but it was not to the to the penny now as this change it is and it was also a difference in is a if you're at 50% damage I think before in order to be substantially damaged it had to be 100% now it's actually showing the actual percentage damage based on the valuation so there was some differences in methodology but again without that detail you couldn't reconcile that so me as a consumer just looking at my particular property I couldn't make hide your hair of it I mean I knew I was okay but the numbers wasn't make they weren't making any sense so if we had that at least somebody could do due diligence and oh I see makes sense and this is what happened one of the other things that that Tony just brought up we have individual that has made a determination nowhere in here is a note that reflects that hey I did a visual inspection uh touring the house as opposed to I estimated it based upon sitting in my car at the road okay there's big discrepancy in value so these are the kinds of things that I think that would enhance um the information here is if we had the ability to describe you know this was done by an on-site visit as opposed to this uh homeowner would not let us inspect the home therefore they got a an assessment with uh such you know whatever we could do on the high water market and if you go if you go into where I was not allowed in to do the inspection I put no access for inspection used high water mark line that's in my not I've seen some of those that's that's in my notes and actually on this one I have up it says using property appraiser times 1.15 not ACV SD completed by billing official Brian so he's making notes on ones he's visit you know I would even go so far as if there's a way on this that that's a simple uh checkbox uh estimated how was it done estimated evaluation onsite inspection and then you would see that and actually you can maybe even expose both of those you can see what the what the estimate was what the actual was and then act obviously takes precence again it's it's important to be transparent because in a case like this people are potentially losing their homes and if they're going out here you want the data to be crystal clear on why those people that are falling in that situation are in that situation and why others aren't because otherwise it it looks like maybe sides are being played lay the information out there there's no questions there's a methodology behind all if you're the one damaged definitely be able to is all public information anybody can get that information and that's what I I was going to add that even if it's not on a outward facing website if you walked into City Hall they have you get any right yeah that's one more so if if we have the capability we got a tool which why we pay for this tool so that you know obviously we don't want people I mean inundating as with public records request it's just more time she has to deal with it put the information out there we have it's just a hide here it's it's just part of the everyday doing business just a status amounts are on the permits anyway yeah so the more we can provide self- serve the better in my opinion that that's exactly where I'm coming from um and it's good record keeping if they're going through the process we have a standard procedure and we can export that file and attach it here as well as who reviewed it and you know those comments that you're making with the review that helps people understand that hey this had a little more effort we did a walk through of the property the building official evaluated the damage uh at a much closer level and arrived at the numbers this way when they come into play into if Fe comes in and asks questions it's more there and easier to find and it's there already all we're talking about here is taking that to the public site so all those records we have in the system I would even think that that would be for an audit purpose you just point to the website and say here take a look it's all out here right that or do they have to come in and look at our access is there well we got these guys on is there any other questions around I think it pretty much covers everything I I will say you guys did great work um getting that resolved the only question I have is obviously you guys been around for a while um you know we're new to the product obviously but for us to have all those calculation problems and then and I think others as well that's kind of what prompted you guys to make these fixes how come that hadn't surface before it's kind of curious those issues um oh okay so in terms of you revie SS that result from the estimate um I think in your case um I'm running back in my own hand sting between accounts um how hadn't we come across this particular issue before um I think in terms of PT Richie the discrepancies with the SDS was you know we have this s now incorporates property market value but before it was separated so there was this really extra burden on the staff to ensure that they were checking and seeing that you know there's automated assess value for property market value and I think um there was just a lot with two hurricanes back to that um so it's in terms of just like the workload um and the particular environment of the PT Richie staff and what they were doing that it just it just came out that there was you know some discrepancies that we just go back in and fix up by ensuring that hsd record was using automated assessed value um I don't think in this case it was a particular like product issue but more like the the environment you know you have so many properties you're doing the SD on the stack has so much time um and um going through that we were able to catch it and understand the problem at hand and luckily we had a pretty simple fix yeah so I guess s like it was it was right process on the on the user side to get that information out there whereas now you guys is pretty much automated that so it's it happens automatically that's kind of a change I guess yeah the the those two new updates to the SD that I explained hopefully like you know it's not a fun process um it's one you hopefully don't have to do especially you know with two H games in a row but um we're we're just hopefully incorporating this a a two newer updates to make it a bit simpler for the staff and a bit simpler for the damage assessment team and then that will in turn make it simpler when you're communicating to your residents about you know here's the estimate when they come in with their actual um you know permit for the for the repairs perfect thank you appreciate you guys working with us any other questions for the team thanks for joining guys thank you thanks so much I'll follow up thank you thanks so much you all have a great one okay passing back to your any more comments nope that's it okay and I move on to comments from mayor city council I'll start my left this time vice mayor Rodriguez good thank you councilwoman Burke councilman deer I as well have none so we can move right on to council business discussion of changes to the city Charter I'll pass it to Mr C intruction and I'm gonna turn it over to Nancy City attorney to uh lead us on the journey down through changes to the Chart all right thank you very much so um what I was going to do is just take you through to the red lines that are in there as a product of the review that Ashley Matt and I did um a few months ago this of course does not limit you from addressing other sections that we did not talk about but um I thought it might be easiest for us to to do the red lines and see if we can get through those and then um if there's anything else you want to talk about um we can go to the sections so the first um red line is on page six section 2.02 previously it said the terms of um the of elected officials will commence on the third Tuesday it's hard to read these sometimes when you have the strikes on the underline you got to figure out which is which even though you know what it means um but essentially everywhere we talk about um within the charter we talk about the commencement of the term it's been changed to the 4th Tuesday in April um right now you know you have your election and then on a random Monday the next Monday we're going to do something so we've just tried to make it more um sensible and easier you're already here on Tuesdays you come in on Tuesdays and that's when the the term will start so that's all that's all that is intended to to change on that so swearing ceremony would commence next meeting basically the next meeting instead of on the Monday yes right and it's actually another week out to get more time for them to be finalized hopefully and that kind of thing yep so just want to just okay these as we go through them any objections to that then next page 203 um there's a list of ways that you can forfeit your office um which none of you will do I am sure there are there are a list um that's the same yeah same okay so we're back back on page six there's two spots where that language is Chang changed to represent being the fourth Tuesday in April right the next uh section I go to page seven um number sub paragraph four under your the list of ways to Forfeit an office um currently says it failure to attend four regular meetings of council and a consecutive 12-month period without prior notification to council um we thought it might be prudent to um change that to be without being excused by a majority voed Council sometimes people get into a situ ation you'll know about it you want to you know an maybe you know they're going to come back but they need some time so we thought it just seemed more prudent to let you guys make that determination vers versus saying that's number four you're out of here um you might still do that but want council's input on that that just seem to make more sense so on that it says for regular meetings yes would when when you say regular me this is not a regular me special me so this wouldn't be part of that wouldn't include special meetings or workshops that would just be your four normal Council meetings and then um unless you want to change it no so I mean we who's keeping track of this the Clark well I mean but as far as excused or not this yeah you don't you don't do excuse that it's kind of strange normally you know someone let's say he on vacation other places I've been Council would excuse them or if they're ill or whatever there would be a request you know they the the council member would ask please excuse me when he gets to the roll call there would be you know someone makes a motion to excuse so and so would happen but you don't really do that here so then that's my point so I I like the change here um and I think procedurally if we have an absence um that that's one of the first things that we do address that absence and that way it's excused or not ex excused or not excused I'll say no call no would be excused right so um and then we because otherwise we have no idea if this ever reach this point so I don't think we add what if somebody's in an accident and there no call no nothing you can you can go back go back in a minute you can go back so like if let's say we were going to do that today and obviously we have someone missing no one knows where he is oh you know no excuse you know we're not going to excuse his absence and we find out between now in the next meeting that there was an emergency then you guys can address it and go back and set that absence is excused that has happened Tom on the way into a council meeting had an accident right outside City Hall so he was on it yeah so so it has happened everybody was fine nothing but so it has happened but yes normally you guys let if you guys have something planned you guys normally let you guys know ahead of time in in a meeting that you have scheduled if it's scheduled beforehand is it something that they should excuse at that time so we have that on record like um per say Council H was on vacation and he wasn't here for a meeting should Council excuse that I think that's procedurally how you guys wanted it should be done at the point in time that it happens I mean you know what Nancy was talking about was those that were unknown but I mean most of the time it's going to be known you know I'm off on a cruise or I have a family member ill in another state and I have to go I mean most of it you're going to know before and again usually well us different places different ways uh where I was at last you know council members would just send me an email saying hey could you please ask for you know me excused I'm doing whatever it is and I would bring that up to the mayor so he's aware of it and then when they do the roll call you know so let let's say someone's not here you go there the mayor would say and so and so is asked to be excused because whatever whatever the reason is someone makes the motion excuse move on I'm wonder if we should leave it as the regular meetings or because I think all meetings are important workshops or whatever um it's what we're here to do so I I don't know if there's a reason to restrict it to just our regular Council meetings I I just open up to all meetings I if you have an excuse we can excuse you um but obviously if we're having a meeting should be here what's your thought on on that I I understand what you're saying but then you put a number on it there are so many meetings it's going to be difficult for in the future I just got off of working but in the future maybe some members of this Council will be working and will not be able to attend every single special meeting work meeting workshop and Council I that's fine I mean you excuse that right well and I think I mean one one potential way to address that I mean this is effectively what like one six is what they're they're doing four out of 24 assuming there's two meetings a month um so I mean you could do that ratio I don't know what the math is on that to be honest but but you know if it's 15% of of the meetings you could just look that year and as long as you're you're not missing that percentage of meetings or 20% or you know whatever that number is because I think this past year we've had a lot of meetings and and you know the problems going to be the more meetings you have the more likely you're going to have someone that's not going to be able to make it yes and so I think staying it for is going to you know be dis disadvantageous to someone just because you're having more meetings you have a higher likelihood of hitting four and I and I think if I may I think it's regular meetings in most places I see it is regular meetings because an emergency meeting there's an emergency there's a good chance people may be missing special meeting like you said sometimes I'm I'm used to being there for my regular Council meetings but you call the special meeting on Tuesday at 1 some people won't be able to make that so I think they leave it as regular that's your main meetings where business is held and done and workshops of course more educational we want to have people there we want you to understand it ask your questions get give your input so when we get to Council meetings they run smoother but I think the the thought process is the the meetings where the work's getting done they need to be there that is their job right I think that's why it's I think that's regular regular that's my opinion leaving it excuse leaving it for regular meetings right now all meetings are important and we should absolutely make every effort to and still if I can't make a special meeting I we should still be contacting whatever the process whether it be Matt or Ashley I in the past have notified Ashley but um we can change that's not a problem um well but but I think leaving for Charter purposes leaving it in as for regular meetings is good but well this is something it it's in the charter I mean we we can always draft something in ordinance wise whatever but you it would make sense you take it out of the charter if you was going to do it that way my point is is and I think we're missing the point is that these are pretty much going to be no call no shows like you're aware a meeting you just forgot now which to me four is more than enough I mean if you can't if you got to work it's excusable ass if you're on vacation if you're sick I mean it's it's not like we're not going to excuse a valid excuse for missing a meeting but what the problem I see is you don't want to get somebody in here and not we have a problem now but this is OB this lives on you know I don't want to have if I go on uh and and leave the the council I want to make sure my elected representative if they have a meeting they're here that's not just showing up for the regular meetings and are not participating anything else I mean if if they're supposed to be here and they don't have an excuse it should count against them it's a regular meeting or not to me if it's a meeting it's it's important so is for the right number I mean if you wanted to open up all meetings and up that to maybe five or whatever we're saying regular meetings are we changing regular to all meetings and then is four the right number because if there's 40 meetings then four is not the right I think the 23 meetings that we have that's a 17% ratio four is probably an appropriate number but again you're focused on the you could you could technically miss all the meetings if it was excused the number is only the number is only in effect for unexcused abses and for me that should be very low yes but if it becomes a situation like that we have the choice of DET determining whether we're going to excuse it or not so that's the control Point correct if somebody does hey I'm calling in I can't make it I can't make it can't you know what this seems to be a pattern and we're not going to excuse use any more meat you know the point is is we have the ability to control that so do we want to lab the point or well I and I don't really like that aspect of it either there ought to be set defined what's excused what's not because otherwise you can have that you you have a you have a hostile Council gets one of the council members hey I'm going on vacation sorry you gota be here we don't excuse it and then you get it you run a net you get owed by likes everybody excuse anything you know I stubbed my toe on excuse you know it it's it's tough but and and again you don't even have to change it you can you can leave it as prior notification to council which doesn't give you any power to address it you're just notified less restrictive the way it was no I like the fact of being excuse it like I said I'm not GNA be there well why none of your business that's you know and from what Matt was saying that's typically how other boards and commit or um Council handle that kind of thing so maybe we step it up a notch and move forward with you know four or five it's something private and they tell thatt then there's got to be a way to address that too that's a good point they said what happens if it's something that I don't want to share because it's personal whether I'm having a surgery or what my kids having iuse just based on person but I shouldn't have to tell you if I want to keep it private so maybe telling Matt or whoever we picked mat and Matt would say Matt would know that is an excuse thing and he would recom yeah I to be honest with you if if you make Council aware that you're not going to be for a meeting whatever the reason I'm good you're going to be excused absolutely yeah it's really this is just boils down to if you just now if you forgot you've basically got four times to forget I use Bible example of tonight again this is not a regular meeting very important meeting which US Charter change which we do what every 10 years um he thought it was a six so you know I did that once on cic it happens I think me time I found out said I'm paining my house and that wasn't where I was supposed to be so it does happen and that's and that's why there's kind of a buffer there but we're all responsible adults we have we serve the public that put us in these seats we need to be here um it's our job um and so if we there should never be a time there should never be more than four times for sure that you just no call no show I mean I don't think we've ever had have you've been here have we had a problem with you know that kind of a situation in the P that we understand but in the past have we had that situation no Ian and even if we date back to when um a council member May mayor something that was you know involved with the with the law steps were already taken to replace that seat or remove position anyway but no one has ever been out that many absences you know without action I one of the things in the language it talks about consecutive 12 month period but what about four consecutive meetings or rather change it from from a 12-month period to hey you got four consecutive misses I mean that to me would send a bigger message rather than if you miss one a quarter again I didn't for consecutive meeting in other words you missed uh January and February all the meetings in January February as opposed to maybe you missed one a quarter now it says four meetings in 12 months four in a row four in a row four a row miss four in a row understand so you missed three you come to one you missed three come to one you miss three come to so but you still have the ability to to acknowledge whether you're going to excuse it or not [Music] right I'm kind of yeah I'm thinking of the law the medical side of it sorry but that that's where I go you know that sure you know somebody's got cancer and chemo and they're just not making it for two months obviously that's an excused absence but that might be an ongoing thing different scenario maybe that person shouldn't be on we can go there and so on and so forth but I think um I kind of like the way is it kind of gives people we are responsible adults we ask for this position and if we don't want it we have the ability in here to also take them off by consensus of the council right so um I like to change the way it is the only thing I'm advocating for is should it be just regular meetings I like the way it is regular meetings I like it regular meetings okay okay on that one all right got so um down a few lines to number seven um we were suggesting removal of that because if you read that language I'm not sure when it was implemented but with the current laws of HIPPA I'm not going to be getting a medical record for anyone that's not here to come tell you why they're not here unless they agree to it know if we have a situation like you just this example you gave someone's undergoing chemo if they want to share that they'll share that you'll know that you may know it privately through the city manager or some other thing but I'm not going to be able to get records um without them agreeing to it so there's I don't see any reason to leave that in there okay um then go down to subc okay going down to subsection C you can see there's a lot of red in that section so um this is something that we recently dealt with when we had vacancies on the board and it was a little bit confusing and we tried to make it clearer and easier and more straightforward um so the new proposed language will be that if there's a vacancy um the vacancy shall be filled filled by majority vote of the remaining members of council the person appointed to fill the vacancy are finished an unexpired portion of the term will hold the office until the next annual election for that Council position to which they've been appointed if at any time the membership of council is reduced to less than a quorum the remaining members May by majority vote appoint additional members in Conformity with this section or shall call for a special election to be held within 60 days from the date of vacancy which reduce the council to less than a quorum in the event all seats are vacant the governor takes over so the second two were already in there they're just put in the same paragraph the big change is um if there's a vacancy you're going to fill it and it's going to stay filled with that person until an election for is a special election for example like Lisa we got to do it twice instead of once yes that was the idea behind it so just to clarify this so let's say and let's fast forward to um this next April let say Linda and Lisa both get elected and then uh Linda decides after a month that you know what I'm retired I want to I want to really do some retirement I was and I'm tired I'm tired of Mayor Hoover excusing my um and so she she leaves we appoint that appointment is just until April not until the until her next next election for that for that term so now I don't like that because I tell you why and I I I parenthesize that as well yeah the council appoints to to continue to do business the electorate is the one that decides who in these seats and so in a case like that which the most extreme case you could have an appointment up here for 3 years I don't like that I mean it needs to go to a vote now I don't I don't like having a special election because it costs money and that it's a viral so I think what should happen is is they're they're appointed until the next available election cycle cycle not not for the so I can read um look like you kind said that you said next annual election we added bit to the end of it so we're just going to take off the end it's going to say fill a vacancy or finish an unexpired portion of a term shall hold office until the next regularly scheduled election not you said regular it should be next election so that means be a special election for some reason next election I mean that's yeah not regular election we hold we could hold a um special election special election next election period And so in this just make sure cover so in in the case of Leisa the real scenario we just had what should happened is her appointment should have been until April and then in April we didn't because we had to call special election so we had to do that and now she has to run again in April but that's only because that term expires this April so what we're saying is right you feel it but what if it what what if that wasn't it what if say had another year you still you then you have that elction for the year so basically what you want to say is if if someone finish just until the next April period so she had a special I'm sorry I didn't mean to so you want it to be just until the next April yeah not not to the continuation of that person's right because again the electorate should decide who so you would still have a special election but not two special election no yes you're essentially having your regular municipal election and special election but it's not going to be an additional special election an add additional charge example when Cherokee ran for Bill seat so basically you had the regular Council election that was Tom and Todd's vacancies um and then you had Bill's vacancy which had another year left that was a special election to and that's but it was we didn't you know we're trying to avoid here and my opinion is is we appoint to to continue to do business because it's you know it's right Logistics do an election we got regular election every April and so because of this issue here we had to have a special election by Charter which means we couldn't just point you to April and then you run for the seat correct which would been a better alternative but we had to have a special election for you for the four months or whatever and now now you got to run for the three-year term but but it could be a year appointment as well so you don't want a threeyear appointment and I I agree with that but you but now you it's okay for a year appointment what if they somebody quit me or in April or quit right away then it would just be till the next April be or less than a year I but I I go by your rationale is this is an elected body and why are we going a year with an appointment when we could hold a special election I question the 60 days that's one of my things but anyway hold a special election whatever that time is at that point why wait a year because using your using your rationale is the people are electing us and now we have an appointed person for a year well then just do them for three years if that's the rationale I I agree with your first rationality yeah well and and and I and I see that as well I guess my thinking is that that's the worst case scenario is 11 months right because I mean that's somebody getting elected and quitting or something happen and have to quit moving yeah so you probably would never see that possible but you would never see that and in that case if you did have and have that um again the people speak in April and so um I don't see that as an issue I do see the issue is they have to wait two three years to to make that choice but every April they get a choice who sets up here well currently this says what 45 days if there's more than 45 days which put me in that position there more than 45 days 45 days is barely over a month so what if you just made that longer 45 days is nothing did you make it 90 days well M I'm sorry to interrupt you the um it's in the in the section that she wrote she wrote um to be held within 60 days my first question is is that enough time to hold a special election notifying this um supervisor of election the 60 days is sufficient amount let's say I quit today and they want to hold a special election is 60 days enough to have a special election not really well it has to go through the council process obviously we have to have have an ordinance to enact a special election that's two readings yeah that's a month garbage has to be done um so works with the city when I mean South was first city he had two three three special elections in one year so they do work with us but I think what we're trying to eliminate is the add an expense of a special election um and what is that expense such a short amount of time well I mean you have to pay all the they have to have co-workers all the coworker equipment all the time Grand huh between the organ organization and so realistically if you think about it even if you could get that done in so two readings a month and then um two months you got a three-month window there to best case scenario you could probably get it done right that doesn't really leave a lot of time for campaigning and all that to really to reach out to people and and have a platform and and do those type things you're just basically put people on a ballot anyway so right qualification have a qualification period and all that so like I said it the only time it would really be a long time without a voice would be if somebody got elected and then right after that they had to remove their seat and then you would have a year but long you know longest time three months three to four months of that would be campaigning for that seat anyway so I don't I don't see an issue with an appointment that short well right now we we have February okay right now we have to qualify in February right you can qualify now yeah okay but but but the deadline is February and the election is in is in April so it's it's basically two months anyway somebody has so it's not that's not any different yeah there two months I mean I I could qualify now Lisa could qualify now yet but the deadline is February so that's the date we have to use so and the election is in April so that that really is not really an argument to in my opinion we Mayan not an argument I'm just I'm just saying so you you you can effective Outreach and meet with your constituents and all that you need more than two months I mean if if you're I mean yes it's small city so we have you know a luxury of not having to um work as hard as somebody for the county or what you know even broader scale but again to to do it right you need time to be able to out especially if You' got five six candidates for a position I agree and understand but the right now we say February and so using that so I just but it cost $88,000 too I mean do we really want to go through Logistics and do a special election for that short period of time like said if we if we more than six months so what I'm hearing is we've got a one-year period 11 months would be the maximum more likely it' be six or four yeah I don't think we're have problem with long appointments I think it it could be I me just could it could be 13 months I mean what you're forgetting is someone that's not up for election in that April let's say they up their seat yeah right so what would happen is they they they resign in March you're not going to have that on the speci I mean it could be as many as 13 months I I just think that's a long time so do we want to pick a frame like 180 days is that you know six-month period in other words have a special election by six month or put a parameter so that would flush out to the next annual election well 180 would be a lot better than 60 yeah I think 60 is too I want to point out the 60 that you're reading is is about if you don't have a forum that's not for that that that's a separate section that's talking 45 so 45's gone if I could make a suggest I got I got make one of the one of the problems with the way this Charter was worded that I think we could have fixed because it says we must call special election doesn't say when we call whatever we want right within what we schedu it the problem was in this case we couldn't call the special election in simultaneously with the election of the three-year term so we had to have something before so if we had the flexibility leave it how it is really um but we had the flexibility when we call Select special election that it could given the time frame it could be coincided with the regular uh election for that seat does that make sense what I'm saying so we called the special election for this seat here instead of having it in November we could have said we're going to we're going to have the special election but we're going to because it's so close we're going to do it in April when the regular term happens and that special election would in a sense be a special election and a regular elction combined you follow me because it wasn't I mean it wasn't a regular election for city council but it was a regular election because it was presidential so yeah I think if if what you're trying to do is get out of spending extra money if there's already a scheduled election coming up so you know it's April August right they have primaries or they do something in August right and November those are the three kind of regular scheduled the August one isn't always there's there's chance there's nothing that would be going on so it would be either be November or April would be your two two most likely yeah dates if we need to file a special election by all means we should have it on a another election so don't don't we want to leave two in there then if you if you're saying that because it doesn't say when you have to have the special it just says if there are more than 45 days left we call one you will call a special election doesn't say how soon you has to have to call that and then that person will do the remainder and and we and if we could if we could change that to where we could basically so I think you would want to leave two in leave two in well ex mean I think at this point just tell us what it is you want and Nancy will be able to come up with the language well so so there's here's what I'm look for I don't want to have to have special elections and pay the cost unless we need to right and and getting the people's voice for these positions is Paramount so in the case it's a year or whatever that makes some sense right we want to we don't we won't want long appointments um but in the case where we we had this weird scenario where we just had election in November and they have another in April so it's December January February March April so it's less than five months you're running for that same seat um if we would had the flexibility to call the special election but make it coincide with the regular election so instead of filling so you basically what you're doing is you in your case you would have been appointed until the end of the term right and the election to fill a seat we as counil to spite and we don't have to we could have decided you know who depend on who's up here they could say no we want to have it in November we want to get it to people but we also have the flexibility to say you know we're so close here rather than have somebody did we not have that option anyway no we that's why we had to have an election in November and and here's from the people standpoint because and I and I I always try to look at both sides of the the coin right they they just they just elected at Lisa 800 something votes more than I mean because it's the the type of election it was or whatever and now they got to redo it again four months later basically five months later um is it really going to change it could probably not so it's it's a not a waste of their time but obviously if Lisa was to come in here and then go rank they would give up four months OPP get her out too I I understand what you're saying but that changed is the cycle no no it just well if she's not running in April with this seat these two seats are not running together in April if yeah the seats will the seat saying don't do the November one but that didn't cost anything because we had a general election you still had to they still had to do special things yeah yeah you still have you still the cost to put on that ballot we pay some okay and we now we actually had staff here as election anyway right as much but yeah we didn't have to pay as much okay but the real cost is to the the candid that ran and then they got it turn right around and run again it's just it's too close it is what it is but I think we have the ability to Shore that up as well save money on elections oh call because we have the flexibility to call them whatever we coincide them with with regular elections as we have these different Cycles um but in a cases like this where it's end of the term and they're going to run again there's really no in my mind and again for the public you know I'm going to vote for somebody I got to turn around and vote for them again just I'd rather just waited cast it then my thought but I think we all agree we don't want the person to fill out the entire term that's left okay everybody agrees to that correct yes nobody wants to say okay you get it till as soon as we get it to the people we should get but I think maybe we can all agree that a lesser time a more time than what it is now but a lesser time than the whole three years right you want to be able to whatever whatever time frames left you want an election can be called special but it would be at the next regular election the same election they could be held at the same time so they wouldn't be just running for a year in this case she would have closed out the year as the appointment but she runs an ail to secure we coincide with an election majority for example for example if councilman hubard or councilman Mueller were to resign and leave now right their seats are not up again until next year two and a half years so put them on the ballot in April you would you would put them on the ballot in April you would fill the position and these two positions are up in April so whoever's running would do these two positions we'd also have a special election to fill that for that term for the next year they would have to run that's what we did with Todd and Tom they both resigned and then Bill resigned so I think removing the room in the annual takes away that extended period of time and they would the people would be able to vote for that specific seat for the remainder of that and then let's say it is two years they've got two years left because it's a three-year term the people have voted they have certified that they want this person for the remainder of the two years and then when that cycle comes again if that person wants to run they'll have to qualify again so I think by removing the annual out of all of that takes away all of that extra necessity for special meetings I see feeling whoever is appointed to the found will will be appointed and will hold that office until the next election I have a quick question that we don't have to answer if we can't do it quickly but when Todd and Tom quit and Bill quit that's three people and Tom quit he just he just ran that's right okay so but let's say you had three positions because it's two cycles M yeah if you had three positions two cycles when people run isn't it by just whoever gets the most votes for each if it's two seats that are up and you have three people that run majority votes win those two seats no if you have two seats open three people or you have three three seats open but two different Cycles because people have quit somebody one is a special one is a special election had one for a onee term yeah so it's designated differently you would okay so which is what you just said you you ran for a to finish five month ter yeah so you you would have to make a choice am I running for these two positions okay or am I on the qualifying people chose to run for rather than run for yeah and I that's another that's a whole another issue I don't like that that's I think you should all love it together and the in that case most all the way down in the last election so the top two vote Getters got the three-year terms and then the third vote getter would have got the the special but what you had was you had candidates that maybe could have carried a three-year term but they had to they had to choose between the two yeah you have to distinguish one there's a special election because you have what happens if the person only wants to fill the onee term for whatever reason I don't know that would have someone like let me give it the try I'm not sure that would be the that would be the flip side of it true I mean I don't know if that would happen I'm just trying to be ADV I think it should go in the you can always you can always quit I think that would all mean you'd have to go again good idea because the seats it would mess up terms that would be a big reward I'd have to I'd have to sit and like two and two and two and two and mayor two and two and mayor then you're going to have a special election for one seat instead of two well well no mayor and councel are actually two separate I mean I'm talking about coun is it it we these two seats whoever these are these two seats run for one cycle those two seats run for one cycle mayor ccle and then it goes back to here so if if Lisa was to run on that and be on that cycle that it's one seat three seats one seat one seat cycle Cycles wouldn't change all I'm saying is when you so if you if you rewind back to uh the Tom Todd and Bill election you had Todd and Tom seats for three years on one ballot initiative you had special election for the onee term on another ballot initiative right and so my suggestion would be rather than split that out and you have to make a choice what you run for how would run for councel and so you have both those that's what I'm saying the the the the first two vote getter so the most popular candidates get the longer terms I think actually was in the charter somewhere when they changed over to something that was like that but and then the third vote getter that would be the one that took the your time I I think when we registered we had to register and qualify for either a three year yes that's I'm saying to avoid that you can say I want to run for counsel I'll take whatever seat that I get that would have to be discussed when you when you enact a special election and how the verbage would have to be on the ballot because it's completely separate and I think it might confuse people to be honest I don't know actually quite less confusing I would think because there okay this is one year term is stre because I've read it somewhere else that that's the way they do that they do it let's do this let me look at our Charter knowing that question and I'll get back to you okay and can we do it what does it take to to propose the change and we'll address it when we address because we're not gonna get I know what you're asking for and I can't answer right now if you if we can do it with the wording we have what wording would we need to change how substantial a change would that be um as we can talk about that how it can be done cool un that's not to say it will happen because it's three slots but it could it did it it seems like it okay let me look into that thank you proposition can I digress well I I guess you want to clear all these red lines and then we'll um if you got some on that say on it not on this it was it was more or less on Quorum and virtual presentation oh come back after all right so back to um subsection C on page seven um you want me to taking out annual we're taking the next election and we're not going to let them F the the remain remainder of the term is going to just be at the next election do we want to leave that or do we still want to look at different language than that I feel like you kind of went back like you kind of wanted to do something different but you kind of so this this the way you have it now is it would be potentially wait for three years no that's gone that's gone so this would take it to the next cycle and you're going to look into specials and how all that good stuff okay instead of saying the next election do you just actually say until the next April maybe November depending on what next next next municipal election maybe you should spell out general election is that what called generals November so yeah let me work on that general for us but she'll work on it we'll work on that one all right the next on page eight um sorry about that no no no no that's what we're doing this for um and 205 number one that again is just changing that the council members will be spor in on the fourth Tuesday um instead of a the first the first Monday after the election so that's similar to what we did on the first page do we really have to get rid of tapes they don't they don't exist anymore so um we're lying to the world come in here and ask for a tape there I'm not going to get one give a scotch yes yeah so that is just a um house cleaning to change it from tapes reporting um the next one we added a subsection that I think we realized was missing I don't remember this 203 which is the vacancies for fure office V the issue behind that is that you know if you have three people that resign all at once you have two people yeah and how do you call a special meeting how how do you do anything as a government so we just wanted to say that voting you know that's kind of the exception there says no action of council except otherwise provid proing sentence in section 203 which says you can call for that special election so if we didn't include that you wouldn't be able to call for the special elction because you wouldn't have a quum and now we're saying even though you don't have a let let me also bring up another thing on this you guys might not be aware so what this say is from voting so this is this is the general voting uh provision as well majority of council should constitute Quorum okay so that'd be three um uh we talked about voting so if we only have a bare Quorum here in order to pass anything all three have to be on board so it can't be 21 so if you if you want entertain change that so that you don't need a a full three it's just out there I'd go either way on it I mean I don't is that normally a quorum can be have different opinions and still pass something right I have seen it both ways in different cities some some say if you um you have to have a quum to pass whatever the the it's written as you have to have a quorum of your Council which would still me like if you have three people right and depending on what's written in the in the code or Charter you may have to have those three unanimous to pass anything basically some things are written that it's a quum of who's present it depends on how you have it written yeah so the way we have it written now is if there's only three of us here it's either unanimous or it fails so there there would be no two one passes of things page you reading from this is State section 205 item three because it says a majority of council Council Court them but a small number May adjourn from time to time make P tendance passet members in the matter subject to the penalty by the council and the last part shall be valid or binding unless adopted by the affirmative vote of the majority of all members of the council so it says it a problem should be members present and that's what and I I want can I I want to say maybe in your ordinance it clarifies that you don't need if you only have a forum you can pass by the majority of the that's only in those those sections that you would have less in a quar that that rest of that sentence is only referring to there's no AC step is otherwise provided Bas majority of all we have a core it has to be unan to pass something which could be a problem on I mean you know I'll tell you one of the cities that I we no longer represent but we used to represent um it was actually their planning and zoning and before meetings would start and I had a quum I tell applicant you have to have a yes from everybody up here would you like to continue this to another day you have to win everybody because it was written in their their code you had to have for you know you had I had a quum so I could have a meeting but nothing got passed unless everyone in that Forum agreed because that was the way the rules were written for that town that would be a problem maybe and you guys are very good about attending so you don't usually have that I think we've only maybe had the quum issued once or twice so but it it can be an issue you members present changes that then you have you still have to have your Quorum so you have three to have a meeting and then you can make the majority of the members present so one person can vote differently thoughts I like members Pres you can continue to do business yeah I mean if you had four you'd be the same thing wouldn't it well four four you have the you the majority so then you could still have the three the one person could vote 3 one the trick is when you have your just your your base your bottom three have a meeting then you everyone to get on board you know and really which I think would probably be the case 99% of the time if you had something controversial on the on the agenda and you only had your bare Quorum yeah you could Ram it through with two two one if you had two people you could be on either side of that however you feel right um but I think the right thing to do is something like that something that really really important decision you would probably table until you all be here I know we've matter of fact we've we've waited for you to be in attendance on one thing I can't remember what it was they were G so and that's really the right thing to do but but again and and you probably wouldn't have an issue here because like I said most stuff day-to-day business or whatever it's going to be probably more unanimous unless there just somebody really do get on board so it just it's it it allows business to have happen even with three people you don't need the majority of those might not be an issue but could be so I just thought make that make guys we that because it's it's something that we have that we we we have to have all three if all if the only three is here we have to have all three I I like that because then it doesn't really give everybody their voice so what I'm when I'm hearing I think from day we should change that to affirmative vote of majority of members present yeah that's page nine excuse me all that has happened on this page is the previous paragraph nine was very long and your city manager didn't like it long so um and it kind of made sense they really didn't necessarily go together I don't know why they were all kind of clumped together so we just broke it down and made um some separate sections so it was clear that these are the different duties and they wer on clumped in one one section but nothing um affirmatively was changed except I see new departments were taken out let me remind myself what that means so it say somewhere else that we do create departments maybe that's taken out because it's dup duplicative yeah thought that let me try to I don't remember this is what happens when you know you do this says Council shall Institute new departments we wouldn't do that that would be the city manager no no it would be counc oh okay I will double check but I think that was that it's duplicate and that was already written somewhere else but if not I'll put it back in yeah I think it is somewhere else yeah I think that's what happened and actually the charter actually defines certain departments like police fire like we wanted to we wanted to create a uh a uh city manager accountability Department do I have a motion that just kiding all right jump to page 15 Section 406 page 16 s yes page I'm sorry page 15 Section 406 um I will be honest with you I do not understand the language and BNC that I have taken out um Ashley and I just talked about it again today and I don't understand what I was trying to convey it may be super important so if you guys understand it better than I do please this I think I was so confused I think this is what goes back to what I was suggesting that top vote Getters and all that stuff I think that's what that but you got to remember too in the context of this they formed this and they didn't have all these guys they all ran at the same time so they had this delineation of how we're going to establish who gets the shortest term and the medium term and so it might be something you want to keep but since it confused me and I'm the one you're going to come ask me what it means look at that in your other thing kind of condensing that because like I said that's that kind of speaks to I believe if I read through it it's it talks about you know if you had the three-year term and the one-year term running together instead of doing a special election where you're doing one and three the top two get the longer seats so the third person gets the one seat I think that's what that's getting at there so if you maybe make a hybrid of something like that and bring It Forward that's if you if we would do that but that's that's kind of what I was talking that's what that's trying to convey yeah I'm gonna if that's what we want we're going to try to make it so I understand it because I it was very very confusing for me so what I've done assuming we don't want to add that back um what we did was basically say they candidate for mayor runs and whoever gets the most votes wins and they're the mayor and candidates for Council run and the highest number of vote Getters fill the seats um in order yeah right and I think it's much more cut and dry as supposed to having two things check on the ballot and all that and but it does I said like Linda said person that uh I just want one here I just went two years you know and then the last part of that section and um which is now for Tuesday it's again just changing the the day that they officially take office um all right so you me to look at 406 along with this yes thing you were talking about earlier okay yeah I guess this also app I guess they had mayor and Council running together I think in in the initial ones the top vote getter got mayor were different yeah so so we're trying to make it just more simple keep distinction but on the council we have multiple seats available cuz you should definitely make a choice to run for mayor let me just tell you because that's like call me all right now I'm going to page 20 the right real quick section section five on page 16 is where it says Council create there Council May established Municipal departments that's that's where that for language came from it's uh on page 16 section five general Provisions a creation of departments the city council May establish Municipal departments offices and agencies that's why we took it out it's already said somewhere else thank you you're soour that's very helpful now I don't have to okay um page 20 subsection um sorry section 608 this is just making this is just a lawyer thing all right so currently it talks about that um public records will be available at a suit at suitable places in the city and at a reasonable time that's part of the public records act but there's more to it than that so I think it's much much much smarter to just say they'll be provided pursuing the public records act and you have a crack clerk that knows exactly what to do and calls me any questions we have a on it not sure that's a great analogy but we've got a clerk that's on the ball not a correct CL wow P do not print that please when I heard I saw a CRA he's making notes yeah doing [Laughter] minutes that's funny all right and that was all I think that we came up with well I will say when I first went through I came up with a lot of stuff and then I settle down went back to really and said you know come on be reasonable here is this ran out is ran out of red ink yeah um that what page is that on page 26 there were randomly um quotation marks around that or something and I'm just checking them it just it's just a like they just they were I don't know why they had on yeah and I think one of their place there may have been a a comma or something that I removed same place yeah so a couple couple places like that it's just typographical so since we covered now what else do you want staff before we jump into other stuff you want to take a quick break okay so let's let's take uh 10 minutes so we'll come give a little more 10 minutes let's come back at uh 1210 1210 oh and I need to leave by four just keep that in mind it's 10 minut five minutes oh 125 that gives a little less than 10 minutes 125 sorry 30 310 253 57 we'll just do the count we'll come back we're gonna give give this is so it sounds like [Music] w e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e and we're back all right crack adjective very good especially at a spe specified activity or in a specific role that's what she is she's a crack clerk she's not on crack she's not selling crack she's not buying crack to my knowledge so what you're to your know so what you're saying is what you're saying is is not only do we have a crack clerk we have a crack lawyer yeah that's a lawyer disclaimer you know I don't know what I don't know all right I have to leave around four so let's get to that's definitely we're going to make it 3:30 how's that sound perfect what do you want what else do you want to talk about my suggestions are done we should we should probably roll down to the rest of the start the from the top and then go back to the beginning if right if nobody else has anything with article uh or part what page article one very first P page four we hadn't finished no I'm done that was all had red lines are done we're going back to the beginning back to so article one pretty straightforward okay article two um I did have a potential suggestion here a couple potential suggestions um if we look at uh section 2011 item C where requirement for filing as a candidate it's 15 signatures is that enough or would 25 be better is that a legal thing or is that fine that's not a lot why I guess I not a lot a lot of times you can qualify by petition or by pay you said doesn't even have a they have any um they have a qualifying fee and then an assessment fee but they do not have no and then zepher Hills has their own petition um whereas the other municipalities have the general petition that we use um zepher Hills passed in their Charter they have their own that that has to be filled out fully and completely in order to be verified through S soe so it's it's a it's a charter decision and so the reason reason I bring this up is it's not a lot and so what you could potentially end up having is a very small a candidate run which is okay right but if um if if you only have 15 voters in your foral election you know it's doesn't make a lot of sense I mean you obiously need more than 15 people to get you an office so it just it just increases the burden a little bit more to actually you know I'm not suggesting we make it a lot but maybe bubbling it up 10 more petitions to 25 would be better I don't know how long this has been in here maybe since the beginning but obviously the city's grown we're now 2200 registered voters roughly 15 is it's I mean not hard I think 15's fine I think 15's fine it's not like we've got I'm okay but I just like said I just want to bring that up I mean at the end of the day the vote tells yeah right right no I from from a the reason is is that you could have some very you could force an election because if you got two Council seats open three people run and to say two are incumbents and one person brand new city and they've only got a handful of people you're forcing an election you wouldn't necessarily have to have because qualify it's just to qualify right but if if if you only have two qualified candidates he's saying if the new person saying if the new person doesn't get qualifi then you don't have election it saves you know that's the only reason I bring it up so if you guys want to keep 15 with it um the other thing on that same no same one see is we don't have any um and maybe this by Design you might answer this n we don't have any background check requirements or anything like that um I think the state does have don't you have to state in a you could be a convicted felon in own no you no you cannot' be a voter you voting for just right you can be a convicted felon if you had um your record adjudicated and restored you can vote um we had this discussion at the annual meeting um nobody in Pasco County none of the other municipalities do background checks you in order to be a registered voter you have to be qualified to vote um so that kind of helps negate that aspect of it but none of the other municipalities in CCO do background checks is a cost it does take time and and it affects qualifying too but that's again your decision yeah no I think based on the registered vote report that's probably good but I just know and I I think there's some confusion the last cycle they solicited background checks and we had to tell them no we don't do that it the case or something I well I think that's after the election right yeah thought there was some qualification that you had to be some a citizen in good standing or something and they can't be convicted you know thought that was all part of the because we run background checks for city employees right so the only reason I bring it up we don't do it for Council so okay if that's you guys think you should add I have another question on that is can we legally ask their sex now and age that's true I always put yes congratulations lucky you um I will I will verify make sure we still can I not see anything this as we can but that's a very good question and maybe we want to be in the Forefront of that and just I have a problem answer one of those questions but yeah some you know in in the bigger scheme of things I'll find out thank you why does it ask how long you've been in Florida though since it since that isn't part of it I mean it doesn't matter how long you've been in the city but it doesn't really matter how long you've been in Florida I believe it depends on your ability to vote as well and it coincides with registering because I believe you have to be in BO of at least six months oh in order to be a registered voter oh really yeah L sign immed I think as soon as you get your driver's license you reg vote I thought you used to be you had to be in Florida for am an amount of time and establish a residence with an amount of a time in order for to be a registered voter but it I could be wrong yeah let say if if you if you make this your residence but you got to go back to another state to vote that would be count make lot sense I don't know well I mean the first number one up above it's you know we have to be a resident for 12 months immediately proceeding so the length of the residency is is but yeah residency of the state that's a good question if you're resident of the city obviously resident of the state what is say immediately where you get that immediately proceeding where you see top of that page the very top candidates for office um councelor mayor um must reside in the city of Port Richie for 12 months immediately preceding qualifying proceeding qualifying okay so Bas qualifying you've had to been here Year yes is that the end qualifying I'm assuming immedi theend qualifying yes the last probably the last last so I would ask I would question the length of residency in Florida too that's kind of redundant put a question down there redundant that might be and why you're I guess why you're talking about the sex question age as well both yeah put can we even ask their name and address anymore probably not okay so you can't ask address if they're that's right they may be protected there there are protected addresses but um section 202 terms of office okay 203 SE for for your office we covered most of that see El there2 does talk about that post votes it does say what talk go back looking at 202 B NO2 yeah it does say all that oh other is again um is what thing I brought up about why why so many okay I'll look at that in connection to the other Provisions we talked about earlier all right okay this is where I had a question 202 still 20 two or three well we went back 202 you got is your question 203 okay 203 I think we done with 202 what's your question my question is when we were talking about the excused meetings in the attendance we didn't discuss being virtually oh yes I'm glad you brought that up do we want to add that so that we could have a virtual Quorum with so many people oh they don't allow you do it well let me back up I personally think you should be able to if that's what your code or Charter reads however the attorney general has issued an opinion that says it can't do that and there been nothing Oh I thought that was if it wasn't stated specifically in your my I will I'm happy to check it again but my understanding is that the the recommendation from the attorney general is Quorum needs to be present so a quorum needs to be physically present so that means three of the five right but two could be virtual yes okay right I'm okay with that but then you could just but you could still vote virtual right right the Quorum is the issue the qu double check it I don't think anything came out yeah I thought we talked about that before that was because we didn't specifically say in our Charter that we could be virtual I will I will yeah as the majority of is phally discussed right because we don't specifically say that Corum could be virtual but if we do I don't know if that I'll check it anyway that's if nothing else you want to if if even if you have a physical Quorum you want to give others the option of appearing remotely for sure yeah they're on a trip or something you know or somebody just kind of sick at home yeah too sick you know I mean others and and realistically if if you can do that I don't know why you necessar have to have somebody physically sitting here if they're on I agree with you 100% in the same age I don't believe there has to be physical presence but I'm not Tran so I'll you know things change regularly so I will verify Devil's Advocate we could all be sitting at home in a pajamas nobody could be here and there nobody and then there's nobody here for sure but um yeah good point well there's a plan I can't run the meeting from virtual anyway so I gotta be here we'll send the G to all right okay 203 anything else on that moving right along 204 investigation nothing really there issue I don't think 205 procedures fast well investigation were like three lines I figured the um it does say s meet at least once each month on there of course we always meet twice just CET more you can't meet less oh I guess if it said we twice a month we couldn't have canceled that makes sense still on 205s bre through there yeah anything else anybody else okay you good Lisa I'm good good good I'm thinking good but okay so six six powers and duties I I don't have any questions I did see some OBS made some observations about being able to change the speed limit two six two six oh there's oh you're way down page nine oh in the power you don't see where we have the ability to change the speed no we do have the ability to change speed limit and we do have uh you know something about septic tanks too and it just it made my me think and say hey do we have any something we need be working what I'm sorry the end of this oh let me put my mic on sorry um that talked about septic tanks and and it made me think about do we have septic tanks in our in our city that we need to be looking at converting when this was made we did probably yeah had a SE when I first moved in we had septic and I had a hook up to sewer so I'm sure that that's probably just a carryover I'm assuming the the thing I didn't see I guess it's maybe by ordinance is the um the whole passing of the gel and that that's not Charter stuff that's like if you're not oh for voting purposes it may not it may just be Robert's Rules and not I have to look at the ordinance spefic have to look in your the code and see if it's addressed in the code I can't remember I feel like I think it was I think there was something in the code about I can't remember we've looked at so many different things I remember those Robert's Rules passing the G Yeah so basically um you could if if let's say that there was there was a a motion Linda makes a motion on the floor and none of you all second it you could I could pass the gav to me and then you could second and then I could second it but I take myself out so basically you would act as mayor in that capacity um until the end of that discussion item it it allows discussion basically to happen it may not get anywhere but the motion just wouldn't die in that case so we should try that one I be one one minute but the question is do you have to give the G back maybe you right exactly no it's just to the end of that one Robert's rules say you got to give it back yeah you have to give it back so it's covered by Robert's Rules I can look and see if it's in the code well in our code is specifically remember because I did it and and Todd said no we took that out and didn't do it so I can't do that we a long discussion about this a long time ago I remember talking about I don't remember what our it's not here it's supposed to be procedures somewhere else okay I'll look in the Cod I was I was think because I told you we need to cover that Charter review but I guess it's not here so that's why you want to run for Council and not May so you can second up things sometimes I want to do something it says you're going to conduct meetings in accordance with Roberts Rules of Order so if somewhere else you have procedures you want to change change them somewhere else so I'll look and see if it's see if where talk about later um anything else on Powers and duties no okay 207 ordinance of in general it's all pre cut and dry stuff 208 action required ordinance I guess you guys went through see if there's anything missing or whatever PR comp like what I read through this it kind of looked like it was just basic regulatory legal 209 Mercy see most of them reference chapter 166 and it pretty much just repeating chapter [Music] 166 209 good 210 codes of technal regulations I think all the stuff is prey border the plate 211 authentication recording codification printing does that happen the catification on a regular like once a year they Cy so it more often now I believe it's quarterly I'm not mistaken so it's a little bit more good so this is one year after is this specifically a c a charter I think this was just beginning of time so within one year of the adoption of the charter and at least every 10 years or after the council it's it's I think when it started they didn't cautify as easily and quickly as they do now this might have been when the clerk was typing the code and it was held in binders in the office this 10 years of appropriate time frame for review of this yeah okay all good there all good ah now we're gonna have a good discussion arle three city manager room I think we should have put something in here he should smile more can we do that supp pizza he's not in the mood well he's figured out a way to do that uh sec1 appointment qualification compensation anything there 302 powers and duties of the city manager so in here there's I think we might need to clarify some things because and I'll give you an example of this and all boils down to the whole if you see item J it says provide staff support services for the mayor and council members um and somewhere down below where it talks about Direction there I think there needs to be a solid understanding definition of what directing is because if I of course when we get down to city clerk you'll see there's even some more things because the way the charter reads it my my interpretation of the charter the city clerk is AAL employee so because she some would say a crack she's a crack employee good actually let me special crack you me to put that we move that in the charter yeah please so and I'm just going to jump ahead to page 16 just for example administrative Department of city clerk and so what she has in her duties is um uh to to last item in to perform such other duties as may be required by the city manager mayor and Council as well as other duties required by ORD City pori and there's another thing in there um uh what was that there was something else point of it is my my point is and I and because it was I had an example I had it was when Matt um he just started we just had a transition as city manager and I reached out via email to Ashley asking for record request and I copied Matt on and so in my opinion that's not directing her I didn't say stop everything you're doing and get me my information I said hey can I can I get this I remember exactly what information was it was uh I think it about spend on attorney whatever and so but obviously as you I was accused of of doing directing and I've always been very very careful um to make sure that everything goes through city manager and I copy him on that but you know there's I just want to make it clear what you know directing and you know if if we have it's almost you almost feel scared to talk to an employee it really shouldn't be like that and and Matt's good about encouraging us and he sets up for the new elected to meet with department heads and stuff like that there's a difference between directing staff and interacting with staff right so I I I when I first came when John came in and he he he described it to me like this and I kind of agree with his what he said to me is if I call Public Works and say hey look this's a poth hole can you fix it matter what else they're doing because I'm a council person they're probably going to drop what their not that I asked for them to drop everything but because it's Linda Rodriguez and she's a council person I'm gonna drop everything and I'm gonna work on that and he said the problem with that was they could have you know we all have lists and and the priorities in which we have to set them and they have a priority list to set to meet their boss do CPP their list might not get done because now they have to fix my pothole and now they're going to have to EXC explain that so I think going through Matt is more appropriate it keeps it keeps it more he can then prioritize it and say hey I know don't do that fix that pothole because she's a pain in the neck go fix the pothole or don't fix B hole fix it in six months because she's a pain in the neck but that's that's Matt's choice so I understand what you're saying you didn't ask for that and I am and I agree with that but their perception is I better do it because city council the mayor asked you to do it right you didn't ask for that but that's their perception and they might not be doing their own work and what we might ask them to do might be time consuming and really put off a lot of things that are time sensitive but because we ask them to do it it it doesn't get done so I I kind of think that we should still go through um and and I do and and but I guess what I see there's there's and I I'll give you another example um an IT issue like problem with email whatever you know we can't reach out to George I mean I would I would I would argue that we could um but on say on side of caution reach out to Matt it just takes time out of his day for simple questions now obviously staff needs to have the understanding of you know there's going to be requests from the public C all those things should be prioritized based on what he directs um so there should never be kind if I reach out or you reach out to Daryl and say hey did you you have an update on that uh lift station over uh by Le's house and he no let me run over right now and do it that shouldn't be the way it works I mean if it's easy to answer that oh yeah we or the speed limit sign yeah we got that party and we fix it that takes him out of loop I don't and maybe you should chime in on this what's your thought process do you want to you want to have to broker every conversation that happens and again a loose conversation here we we should be responsible and respect that he is the manager but it just sometimes mundane questions that could be answered quickly waiting on him to call us back if he's busy doing something else taking time as his day he' go talk to staff you know it makes doing business cumbersome and it's frustrating because you're not just a citizen anymore so we don't have the rights of being a resident in the city that we had before because we have to handle it differently where you know normally I would call the building depart about something or I would call utilities and say hey but now we can't we can't do that we have to run everything through M I mean you know if if it's something about your personala if you want to get a building permit you're following up on a building permit I wouldn't expect you to go through me to follow up on your building and I know some of you do that and and you know what I normally do is tell staff to call you back because you know that that is a resident process but if you want to get a report on all the building commits that were issued oh yeah that's that's that's a council function right so those are kind of the two different things what what I found in in my life is what you might think is simple is not simple at all and so you might think that you're asking for something that should be like that but then I get on the backside when I start asking the question you know when I look into it now all of a sudden there's a whole process and so again you may have and if you and what happens is you reach out to an employee and say Hey I want this and what you don't understand is what has to happen to do that and then all of a sudden we spend $1,000 dollar in doing that because you know the employee thinking well the council member ask for and and you know and and this has happened my me in my career and I go to the you know the council member that you know causes to have a lot of money well if I had known that I would have asked for it see that's what I do right you know I I ask a question they know that I'm asking a question they tell me what they have to do to do it and then I'll get back to you and say it's really important you know this is something the whole Council needs to know or maybe I already know the whole Council needs to know and we would do that so I mean that that's the difficulty I think in in requests coming from Council is you know what Linda said is is a typical city manager response you know you can't prioritize their time you can't make that as an individual council member you can't make that decision that binds the city in some action you know it's it's the majority of five that binds the the council and and that's you know whether I like it or not that's what city managers do right is to be the one that says hey you know I have this request it's going to cost us money is it valuable to all of you to do this or not and then if majority says yes then we go and do it but but staff is kind of predisposed to try to be you know getting done what you think it you know what they think you think should be done and I agree with like like for I'm playing with replacing a sidewalk and I need I want to know I don't know if I need a permit for that I would call Veronica ask a question that's a citizen question I'm it's not a council question that's a citizen question do I need a permit for XYZ and I would expect to get an answer I wouldn't expect to go to through Matt for that right but what about that stop sign on Old Post or uh the speed limit sign that's a council function so that I would go through Ma yeah and what he pointed out is by asking for some new report or whatever they go off again that that's kind of way well beyond the scope of what I'm I'm getting at here I'm just talking about and I'll give you another example and again I kind of you as a little different because she's kind of special role but um say that sorry one specifically one specifically person would say that that be our City attorney Sor it's it's how that term crack has changed that is true so now you're aging me that's that's okay I'm a rain you all back no um set it out the agenda I noticed there's a an issue with the agenda or whatever you know I I've been there's been there's been just a couple times in the past I I reached out said hey this didn't have this in here not not content wise but there was an issue with my signature block for instance or something something trivial right um but you know after all this hoopla happens then I even that mundane stuff go city manager or something about the web sou kind of manages that there's there's just mundane things that you you know that because all he's going to do is relay it he's not going to say no at the end of the day it's he's he's really he's our employee that does that role so again and I think part of it to remember too even though it it might be mundane like hey there's a a typo in this on this page or whatever it's also the appearance of that and I think that's what right kind of you ran into people saw something they thought oh this seems wrong right and maybe technically it's not but it appears wrong and that you should avoid it right so it's just it's just it keeps everyone on the on the right page there's you're there's no way you're interfering with stack because you're not going to them as a council person asking or telling them anything it just protects you of you and that's that's and really they could get questions from five different people so they're they're answering Council questions all day long as opposed to doing their job that makes sense so I I still think going through Matt for councel business for personal things you got problems with your house you need a whatever you know personal resident questions I don't think I would go to Matt for that either but I I think for anything Council related I think still needs to go through M that's my opin and again I don't have an issue with that but there are there are specific things again we're just doing it because we don't want to invite Thing by what the charter says I can go to the clerk and ask for public records I don't need to ask M to get public record but that's a resident thing right right that's a resident thing you can anybody can ask for public records absolutely well this specific instance I was called out that was that was the email that was provided language for item J well so that that's I think that's where the confusion comes in there it says provide staff support services for the mayor and council members so he he does that obviously he assign staff for us that's that's sufficiently broad yes next okay he I just I just brought that up because there is you know some people think directing is more than it is and that's that's we'll get to that next I think I think it's we talked about that thanks for um section 303 an an city manager disability nothing really there I don't think removal that would never happen well maybe not with this one yeah I think it's happened in the past has it has yeah uh 305 supervision departments I think this is where it talks yeah and Direction all Department that was where Direction comes in um 306 Personnel system 307 administrative code and that will in that article and we got article four city election I think we've sufficiently discussed that she gonna come back with some stuff you got till four right little legal stuff I think okay um so I'm going to Article Five administrative departments anything there of note administrative Department item number J uh I to keep properly indexed books of all ordinance and resolutions do we want to say digital records or bring digital records along for the ride we we have physical copies of all that stuff too right we have physical and digital yes do you have to have physical probably probably no no really no once once it becomes scanned that is your original copy what happens if computer system goes down well that's where you have backup backups a lot of cities have become digital um if they're not scanned we have a fire they're not in protective so um it's it's safer to to become more digital but also have that that safe that fail safe in the event something happens yes which do we want to change this include digital you can and that would allow her from keeping I don't know you do you need to call out digital because B index books that sounds like a physical document how about just to properly keep all ordinances and resolutions by the council secure or something like that that covers digital paper pigeon just Smith that little bit properly report yeah yeah something like that how how has this been done in other cities that you've been with I've never looked at this provision so I can look at what other cities have done no one's ever asked I'm just thinking from Mass persp I've never seen that language any place have have you you mean this index books yeah typically how does your other cities that you do business with they keep a digital record typically yeah and how about a physical record as well uh they once it's been scanned and recorded then yeah because some states are not very Progressive like in Michigan you know they don't recognize just Standalone uh digital I mean maybe that's changed here in the last year but but you had to have both so but again that particular language I've never seen it I I think you usually it's you know shall be the keeper of all ordinances and resolutions passed by the council it doesn't go into index books I like that better and then we would allow what your internal policy to dictate how that will be maintained so we don't really call it out a digital record it's just yeah I mean maintain accurate records yeah I mean typically again it it would fall on the clerk to uh Define what that is that's the destruction schedule under different provision okay yeah I like that everyone does The Keeper of all the keeper of all ordinances and resolutions and keep whatever she us that's really directed by the state I mean it falls back their their records and we have record retention policies and things like that um but normally after it becomes passed or whatever scanned and that's our official record again the state steps in and says how you're supposed to keep your records and that's how you know if it to be heart copy then you know the the clerk will figure out the system to do that and if it's digital they figure out the system to do that why they have those conferences okay and do we want to scratch K and R the NY resered you do that a lot of times when you get rid of something rather than re number or read letter everything it just leaves it there and if we wanted to add a new a new put in there Duty for her tonight day we could just write put that in k a spot for it like crack clerk right there right to be the main point of contact for all crack items anything else again just point out in item in it does specifically call out I view her from a charter perspective as a special employee is that she perform such duties as may be required by city manager specifically mayor specifically and councel as well as other duties so that's in there just a you know if you want to change that to make it less specific but I view that as if I need to and I I give I'll give you another example before the meeting I had her ask her if she could print out these things and she did but should I you have print this out for me it's see say I told you right away that be you want to keep that or take it out from your standpoint I mean she again special employee they're they're administratively we need certain things right can I get a copy of the if we go digital can I get a copy of this look do you really need to talk to I yeah I think I think keeping it that language is fine getting rid of the though would be good but hly if we ever abuse you let I have a feeling you would um professionals consultant section 502 anything there 53 utility department 504 public works department I'm going to roll through these fast cu prob not much here 505 Police Department 506 fire department 507 bilon inspection Code fli Department I do have something here um so in here it specifically sa that the department shall be headed by the Chief Inspector which would be the building official now we have a consult so well there's that right but um I'm not sure most cities have their own building inspection Code Compliance or building building Building Services director or whatever um I don't know that that should be the the chief inspector's role he should be there to inspect or should be somebody overseas the department again Matt would determine that but the charter restricts him to be able to do anything like that because based on Charter the Chief Inspector the Billy official be the one that would be the head of department so I I think we need to do something about that now what that is I don't know um any thoughts on that no I mean I I think that you know typically building officials are excuse me not not the department director of a a department and there's a lot of good reasons for that um usually they're they're an agency within the department not not a department themselves um um it is something that you know we're we're as we're looking at right now we have you know our Revenue manager and our building official if you look at their position descriptions they're doing the same thing in in some areas and and when you go back not only to the Charter here but also to the code rip large I mean there's a lot of conflicts there that you would have to go through and do a substantial rewrite to a lot of things to take the billion out of the chain of you know overseeing the whole development services department um so I mean it's something that you know we talk as you need I talked about later in the process I just felt that you know one we're kind of in a state of flux so we didn't really move forward with anything like that to do it but it's it's quite an undertaking and and if we're going to be getting you know if if decision isn't to have this on the April ballot is something that we could discuss but if it is to have an April vote then I mean it's just it's going to take way too much time so you think just ch because if you look at all the other departments it basically just referen the department head which would be who you've designated right that you have the power to designate but for this particular one and and right wrong or indiffer this is a very very important function of the city City you don't have the ability to to appoint anybody but Chief Inspector right so so saying if we just take that out and leave the the words well you'd have to take out that whole sentence right the department you just read department head you don't specifically tell who the department head is right then you you appoint whoever you want whether you hire somebody or you promote somebody or whatever you do you have the autonomy to be able to appoint a department head but here this ties your hands to department head is a chief affector right and so I would say we take that out so that you have the ability to do that but if there's is there more to it that yeah there's and that's what mat was explaining there's I don't I don't have them with me but we have looked he's gone through the or um code and found a number of ordinances that make that address the building inspector as the department head like there's a a number of code modifications that would have to happen simultaneously so we need to be ready to do that that to be ready to go so when this passes those can be passed and it's consistent because right now if you pass this it's not going to be consistent with the code well this goes to this would go potentially go to ballot in April and again the reason I I hate to push that because it requires a vote to the public yeah we can work on getting the we got till April to get that ready I would because this is this is something that's going to be very very important very very quickly um because potential Development coming in and we've got all this stuff that's going on now we need we need to let m control that department how he sees fit as opposed to being hamstrung by a certain line chart so I would propose we change it and move forward on the other stuff my and my answer is that that can happen you guys direct me to do it it gets done I mean you're not asking me for it to get it to you tomorrow I can not do that but if you want it done kind of as this is moving along we can work on that what do you say Matt I mean what your what's your um well I so my my default answer is I always like to plan and I that's what you know why I didn't move forward is you know to have a plan so I could say this is what we're going to do so when you look at change language you know what it's going to be I mean in this case you'd be changing language without knowing what that land really is um yeah no if you limit it to just taking that one sentence out well that should be too because you wouldn't need the building inspector so meet state requirements so I mean you could take that out and and again I could easily say building official you're the the director and then until then until the other stuff changes then he could make a decision but if you put a charter it can't be anybody but the Chief Inspector right now and in order to change that it has to go to vote can you word that bring it back to us y of the stuff see how that goes yep thank you I can do that and that's the only thing I had on it anything else 508 Department Personnel um 509 Personnel manual 5 when was the last time it was updates in the process so do we want to put some review in there that be updated periodically or it's at his discretion whenever he wants to do it you want you force it do you mean yeah that ties everybody's hands I think you could have a really great written one you don't need to update ever okay uhis of departmental powers and this is it also talks about creating additional departments or positions to dissolve this departments by four fifths vote um now there was a I know there was a change that used to be to get rid of the city manager was four fif vote now it's a just a simple majority do we want to make that the same do you departmental Powers you want to keep that a four fist V again in my opinion everything should happen with you shouldn't need any super majority um for this but again probably never happen majorities talking about eliminating a whole department that's I don't think that should be just a simple majority I think that's a big decision that needs to be at least four F did we do that with this didn't happen he was that was Welling a department that's part shifting things and the reason I bring up in in reality if we can three of us can vote to fire the city manager if we want to dissolve a department we fire city manager all this this allows us to not have to do that to you see what I'm saying it's just why do you why super majority to do that we can get it done by you know the other thing that's I'm all about if we if we really need a four fist let's leave four fist but if we don't why have it in there just it just hamstrings and you have to and again the biggest thing we could ever do is is terminate city manager um and that only requires three so but eliminating decision a whole apartment is different than a person because you're going to replace that person you're going to replace with s they're not eliminating well right but I mean I guess my point is is that if if if three people wanted to do something like that then that would be the Avenue if if you need four you couldn't get the fourth you just you bring somebody here that like I guess you still have to even if you got a city man still take four fists I don't know I just just bring it to your attention I'm good at leaving it by the way just trying to be consistent I guess um six Finance taxation anything there budget budget budget message adoption budget we did this pass things you see issues with budget here think good public record that Administration budget audit taxes and fees ratory fees billing code inspection fees ad Taxes public service taxes service fee for dis checks and that's all that article oh good article seven Municipal borrowing should be pretty straightforward authority to borrow positions of bonds stash and sing funds um the there's no 4 requirement on any of these things to borrow and issues of bonds not either so that's just regular majority that's not a big thing to actually go in debt it would make sense to have something more like that possi um article eight board's Committees of land use plans there's some inconsistency here some board for example C planing is only board talks about like chair and all that you get the board of adjustment and there's um chair I think Port Authority doesn't say anything about a chair it'd be nice if those were a little more defined similar they all do the same thing but there's there's varying degrees of how it is maybe just look through those three to kind of shore them up similar what we did with CAC to you know solidify some of that stuff tell what a quorum is and whatever whatever needs to be in there it seems like it gets less and less as you go down po authorities just hey we got three people doing this I'll look at them uh the comp plan is a four-person committee I don't understand back to board of adjustment we wanted to talk about C oh yes yes yes glad so is there any reason to continue to have c in there to force them to only be on that one board I will research it I I did a quick search while we we're talking about something else and it it looks kind of like the the thought processes of what s said um not only is it POS judicial continually but um in some cities you don't hear I don't believe um require the board of adjustment to be um people that are spe like specialized in the topics that would come before Board of adjustment and thought processes that's all they should be doing it's it's in depth FOC it's focused and it might end up being a conflict because they may be a developer that helps with that but you know they can't maybe do other things or something well the other thing is that if if the member is on the Planning Commission or planning board they would be hearing an appeal potentially from some well they couldn't have be two boards though so they couldn't be on both boards right this is more so I agree with that you can't be on more than one board but if you're on board CR you should be able to serve on the C advisor committee or committee or all the other thing it's it's just and you know if you're in a city of thousands of people probably not an issue because you got a lot we don't have a lot of interest I mean we can't fill board commit position we have now so this is just a restriction we just lost a CAC member because of it maybe change um if there's an interest in doing it um allowing allowing the board of adjustment member to be on committees but not let them be on any other board right there he already have you can't serve on more than one board somewhere in there well yeah but saying yes you can't serve on more than one board but you can serve on a board and a committee yes CAC is committee not a board what I'm saying is that you don't need to put anything in there about serving on another board because you can't it's already in there it's already in there you just need to open it up you need to take that out well no they can't have employment in the city but they can serve on any committees all right then you jump down thank you for comprehensive Ling yeah that's a four person committee again you can be locked 22 and that's pretty I don't know why we so we either need to take it out a three or four or three or five I would think thoughts on that I have no thoughts y taking the city manager off of it sorry so leave it for what's other cities do on this I a lot of cities don't have it seen this in our city how many do we have on the committee now two two we need more than that we yeah we at least three by saying four the problem is if you get four and you got two two you can't get three can't get five yeah we get three that's I'm saying yeah but yeah five would be tougher right but again four causes a a potential deadlock situation and you don't want to be deadlocked on your conference use plan I mean You' got to do something and if you so it just seems odd it would just be a four person so you don't even have a quorum now no so you can't conduct business well do we have Quorum I don't know is have committees that are five no but this particular committee is going to be important is it yes well that's so much now we do possibly back but in the future obviously it doesn't State what a quorum is actually so back to your standard list of things right majority well there's no majority it's two would be the best Clos as you get to majority but is that a majority actually you have a majority if you only have two members I say what a mess yeah I say Mak it three three sounds like it but make sure the city manager stays in there he's a CH he has to be we meet we have to beat the bushes to get people to show any that's want to make it three sure three member city manager and two minimum yeah we minimum there you go maximum of five yeah three to five yeah good suggestion got it because somebody has this dying desire to beond there you don't want to and quum would be based on the majority of the committee and that ought to be the case in all of these they ought to have the same guidelines I'll look for that they consistent okay uh article nine initiate initiative and referendum didn't see anything in here you guys see anything article 10 General Provisions actually before we move on let me ask this we we had talked about um and I don't know if this is in here or this could be done by ordinance or whatever but in the event that uh um an action is brought is defended and the the the council member is um uh absolved of whatever there's fees or all that the city can reimburse those fees or whatever I think there ought to be a provision that if something is brought and again there's there's things that can be brought to frivolous anybody can bring anything right it's true or not um and what exactly and what happened what happens is is that it goes away and we reimburse attorney fees and and all that cost City money I think there ought to be a provision that if you bring a charge you better be ready to pay for it if you lose it but again I don't want to I don't want to keep anybody from doing that either but that's kind I think some places actually have where then the city can build that back to the it's not uncommon that the prevailing party receives fees when they Prevail whether you could do it in this context I'll have to research it know it's Char again that's something I think we need to think about um going forward um article 10 General Provisions personal financial interest prohibitions Charter Amendment procedure what doing now suits against the city cability construction anything there article 11 transitional Pro I'm really testing my ran Neal skills here U trans transitional Provisions authors and employees transfer Powers pending matters State Municipal laws schedule for adoption corporate boundaries s city council any discussion there yeah I think mat sent out a analysis on that um I I did a little analysis actually and so the and I so this was done the last time it was done was February 21st 2001 so almost 25 years yeah this there's attachment you sent email is that the last time it was updated 25 last time was updated was 2001 so almost 25 years ago um thank you it's it's I got another package from okay another package so I just just I use the cola rate that is put out every year um if you take 4320 in 2001 and you roll that out for example 2002 1.4 was a cola 2003 2.1 if you propagate that out all the way to today if we would just basically get in Cola increases that would put the salary at $766 345 just for an example if you if you applied Cola across the board I can share my screen you know I did the same thing but I used the inflation rate from for 25 year period And I come up with 7911 so very close very close So Co is what basically they do they that's what they adjust Social Security and stuff based on is it's kind of like the standard number for cost of living um increase let me share my screen here so you can see this share send request okay oh I got do it again sorry share there we go let's do small this one okay so there's starting salary in 2001 when they did it and then you basically take the cola rates and adjust it every year with the cola that's through 2008 there's through 2017 and there see 2024 and so if you look at just this one so basically if you keep up with coal it'd be 6,149 cents in 2018 based on a 1.6% increase that would take it from 61 to 62 that's where the ex come so if you if you propagate that across every year you end up with 7,663 45 so let me bring up what we're looking at I think it's this here is your and this is what man SE a neighbor communities and whatnot I can tell you Newport Richie they did theirs three some years ago I think um so there's a couple things on Sal on council salary obviously ours goes to a vote so the people decide whether they give us a raise or not right we can propose it um but they can vote it down so what I like about that is that takes effect immediately and some of the language you see on other ones if if it's done by ordinance um if we pass an ordinance to adjust a salary and it gives you more flexibility go to vote ta Council it it basically so I'm me use a real example let's say that we were under that same thing that Newport Richie was and we voted today to um uh raise salary to X right the upcoming election because it's within six months let's say you guys get reelected that entire threeyear period you would not see a raise until your Replacements come after that that's how those ordinances are going what does it protects people from giving self raise basically right so you know I don't necessarily like that approach because there's could be a long time before that's seen so I think if we would make that change to where we change the salary and like said we can we can look at change in the salary put to vote leave it as is and any time go back to vote that's perfectly exceptable I we do it and it happens immediately or we could do we could propose a change and and we could also change it going forward it'd be done by ordinance and we'd have some of these restrictions um I think it makes more sense to wait a year for the next budget cycle let me throw a third thing third what's third option what if you whatever you set your salaries at then TI all future equal to whatever they're giving the rest of them yeah you build build a that way it's automatic whatever the staff and employees are getting since we're employees that would apply immediately when that occurs and you wouldn't have to go back to the well every time you want to do that the only problem is you're voting in a way to give that when you approve the budget right budget Sal yes it's true so if we're saying well we want five we give it by five right aren it is it two saying if you're waiting you're to the next election it has to be more than 6 months isn't that true then maybe I'm not under understand is it true then that at some point your Council your entire council could be making different amounts yeah so in that scenario I gave you let say we raised it to 7500 right right and so less than you guys you guys stay at to 4320 for the entire threeyear term but the next the next round gets because it's more than six months yeah that well that that's just one choice I mean like if you look at number one I mean it it's not not automatic like number one just talks about um it'll become effective the expiration of that term so yeah You' vote for it now and yes it wouldn't necessarily affect you for this term but your next term it would there would still be a rating period so those are just different ways these cities have come up with obviously trying to show you're not just voting to put more money in your pocket to put money in your pocket you're doing it for the good of people coming to council and making it worth their time to volunteer their time because you really are this is not going to pay you for the work you do um but it makes it you know sit better that you're not just sitting here like oh they're trying to give them this other R there are other cities that don't have any waiting cre at all just passes it becomes effective yeah so just however you want to to put it together so I I like as an option kind of what Dave said if we were to again if we decide to raise it put to a vote if it happens but in that raising that it would also adjust your by your Cola and then potentially you never have to take it back to the vote right you'd get to it would keep up pace on its own right and then if you did want to do something above and beyond that you take it to vote so the citizens have because I said I don't like because the whole purpose is is to is to have a salary that meets the needs and 25 years ago I mean it's it's as you can see it's it's it's really really low and we don't do this for the money and even if we took it to 7500 we're still not doing it for the money it's I mean it's it's a lot of work um and you know we do it for the love of our community and all that but there are expenses time that we we spend in meetings preparation I mean it goes on and on I spend countless hours in the evening I go to events I mean there's a lot of stuff that goes on so I think we need to consider that um what's your all thoughts I I think the cost of living is is fair no I mean of course Fair you know everybody else got raes and you're right we're not none of us are doing this money um right so it just does help a little bit when we're here till 10 o'clock at night yeah well you drive back and forth it's a lot of time so I mean I don't I can't imagine I've had I've had people when when you tell them what what salaries are like you're kidding me right so I don't I don't think that that the citizens would have a problem with providing some adjustment here I think that based on what it is if you just take coal from that I mean you're never going to make any amount of money so and it another another point to that that's important is you know you want good candidates up here that's willing to put in the work and you know it's it's especially course you just retired so now it's a little easier obviously but uh the people that are working um you know you it's it's a sacrifice right when you're working for 40 hours got a family and stuff like that and so we might have people that say I'm not doing that for $360 a month but they might do it for a little bit more and we could get more interest um and have better qualified candidates up here I think because there would be at least some amount of reur huh qualified candidates no let me let me take that CRA that was my crack clerk analogy wow so no I mean you know you never know what the future is going to hold but um you know honestly we're our advantage is is that we all over our community and we don't really care about that but so so are you advocating picking picking and uh putting a number on here now we we' have put a number on here and then at the end of the day this whole package goes to vote so it's one everything it's either All or Nothing well not necessarily and and I I would almost well no no no what I'm saying is is when this package goes to vote it's all or nothing no the different substance of changes are separate ordinance it's separate topics so salary count salary would be a separate each issue present oh would be voted for yeah amend yeah yeah a lot it's a lot of writing by understand I thought it was all in which somebody yeah okay so pick a number so you're I need to go I don't want Rush do we need you for this you don't have to but I need to know the number at some point gotta go so I'm up here now so this is what Matt sent out OB you had that in front of you that's examples or whatever based on our sour 2001 that would put 766 7,663 45 and then obviously if you build in Co adjustments after that that would continue to rise with Co my suggestion would be have Adam double no offense to you of course double check the map so that we're not screwing yeah whatre I would have Adam just do a double check but I mean the way you did it it seems to be more than fair with doing the cost living adjustment yeah I pulled these right off the government website unless I did a typo so that's I'm saying I mean so doing the cost of living every every uh every year is more than fair so well you're saying cost of living and I'm suggesting whatever you're talking to the same budget but this is to get us here but but no he wanted a number now so that's I said I don't disagree but you know to prevent us from giving our sales raises higher than that maybe you do defer to cost a living and that way it excludes us from that that's not a number that we right right I like that idea though and then staff if we want to give staff a bigger bump we we aren't tied to col we do that doesn't invol which one what well there's different which metric yeah which which which one whatever they're giv Social Security Social Security I think that's that's what need to tie it to something very specific since this is a retirement I yeah I think different acies put different we do the C of Social Security I think that's probably the most recognized one right fedal I can do the math he wants but I'll have Adam double check the numbers be the number no offense to I mean I hope but you know just no please check my word um and so the other aspect so we would leave it to referendum I'm refer but a vote um but we would build in once if they accept it going forward sub a cola would automatically adjust our shows for for social security for that and we be coming setting it at um this or you want to make it a round number to like say 75 yeah I would I would round it down yeah so so set salary at 7500 without the cap the six month cap or yeah no it's if it's if they approve it it's effective um and then the other item is do you want to keep it all the same for mayor because most of the time Mayors get more money make a little less I mean I will tell you that there is a lot more time they come to me so again okay $ 7600 and I would uh let's see and again my election is the following year so I'm thinking more of the line for not me and I'd be willing to take that and just make it effective for the mayor just because I you know but I from my perspective I think this position should get at least a little bonus because I do a lot I give you example I sit on the no board I got to drive half the meetings are over date city um hour drive there hour drive back there's other boards and stuff I sit on um when most time when residents reach out they go right to me um because they have the illusion that I have more power than I do but it's just it's you know media reaches out to me for comment um it it I got hit with the thing I got $2,000 in legal fees from this last few things which obvious may come up soon but uh you know there's there's a lot of additional headache in this and obiously you know you guys SP a lot of time too so I I think we all should be paid but you know I hate to advocate for myself so I'm not really doing that I think the mayor whoever that is me or not should get a little stip and if you look at Newport Richies I think there's I think there was one in there 75 and it was 10 I think was the difference was uh Beach 2100 [Music] so here Madera Beach is what I was talking about it's very similar in size and it was 75 and 10 what thoughts on that and a council it's basic same as in Newport Richie 75 and 96 and there there's it's three years old so what did you just point out what did you just because I put M away I'm just I'm keeping alive M Beach we set our C 75 and then 10 it's very simp simar to Newport Rich 75 there's a 9600 so I would go with the Y wasn't run against [Laughter] me then the people would need to approve this obviously I think the Newport Richie went good I mean say5 96 you do that too y I'm good with whatever you guys want to put in there like said it's it's not to me it's not about the money that $400 $500 you put in a lot of time May a lot of time you you you just need to make sure that uh whoever the mayor is up here they they should get something election because it's a lot of work so well I think you've stepped it up a thing we participate now more in a lot of things a lot of the county things so I have no issues okay so doing what 96 75 to M Richie okay and then Co adjustment going forward um the get back to my agenda here uh so I salary battle language nothing ear there and that's pretty much it it [Music] um that's all we had so is there any other discussion to got motion to journ Second motion second favor say I I thank you all for --------- ##VIDEO ID:ntL8oTMsA0M## mees please Mayor John Eric Hoover here vice mayor Linda Rodriguez here councilman David Mueller here councilman Robert hubard let the record show that councilman Robert Hub is absent from today's meeting councilwoman Lisa Burke here City attorney Nancy Meyer here city manager Matthew CER here thank you okay first up is comments from the general public uh we have nobody in the crowd nobody think online so we'll bring it back to comments for city manager pass it to Mr CER for his comments yeah the only thing I want to let you know is we have been accepting uh applications resumés for the chief of police position for the city and uh as of today I think there are 26 uh resumés that I have on my desk so we're getting a good turnout and they're not slowing down so I'm planning on keeping it open till after the first of the year and then start the the process of Ming it down and defining what that process on side going for who's weeding that out you are so you're going through these 26 applicants eventually I'm just right now it's just collecting them I said they're they're still coming in I think uh today there's like six or seven that came in did we have a close date on when accepting yeah till what open F but we could for example we could get a a top-notch person and just fill it and say okay that's it just interview one guy and that's it we get that's our prerogative right could do that I would recomend that get that no I I I'm very confident that we're gonna have a pretty good po I mean you know it's uh one of you know doing this for 30 some years this is probably the best educated pool of police chief applicants I've ever seen now we don't hire them you do correct yeah now did we get a stay in this at all um usually well par me I thought I was GNA say usually no I don't think I I I think there there's going to be a place I just haven't figured out what that process looks like you know again I want to have some involvement by staff as well in this and you know I've been looking at different ways other communities have done it in Cross right not a complete review yet but uh you know because I know that you have a certain signature Authority I think that's what 10 grand is that right apply to higher yeah would app is that is that what it is for hiring well the regular signature Authority for p it's like 10 grand but because it's a hiring uh that goes around that process yeah well not in that process not that process at all it's under but it could be it's budgeted positions I think it's probably why it's well but we have budgeted spend and we have to approve those all the time different building Al hiring Authority versus uh purchasing Authority well and that's why we're talking about hiring I wanted to you know at least get that out appreciate that's just want a point of clarification problem that's all I okay any other questions for mat okay moving on to council business uh first up item number one city Ajax Paving Industries contract I'll pass it to Mr C for introduction um as Council remember we had a conversation at the last meeting regarding uh spending the rest of the ARA money um I put I put at your desk kind of a recap of this I do want to point out as I'm checking all the uh different numbers to make sure I decided to check the number I hadn't checked before which is the total for the budget which shows 1.45 th000 or 1,4 154,000 and I noticed that that doesn't that that sell did not include the spend from last year so in reality in doing what we're going to do with um ax it would put us $18,000 above that so be one 1.47 2,000 approximately um I really don't have a big big heartburn about that just let you know because again we're going to control what we spend based on what the actual project will look like in terms of the streets um and there's always that possibility when we come back to you with the streets that there may be a street that we really need to do that puts us over the 450 we may have to amend it and use other money to do that um so at this point in time the goal was to absorb all the money so we don't have you know the possibility of giving any back so I don't really have any concerns about that but that's I wanted to point that part out on that spreadsheet um going forward uh what we had talked about doing was throwing the extra money into a Paving um so the first uh first item we have here uh would earmark $450,000 with ajck Paving for streets to be determined uh very shortly and know now if you want to go a little B more okay um I know city clerk was you know emailed the packets to you earlier today and I don't know if any if all of you have had a chance to review it the it's on she did oh I'll speak louder um I don't know if all of you received the packets today you know because they were only sent online you know they were sent to your emails um the city clerk will pull up as much as he can I'm going to go over and explain the details about this uh agreement with Ajax Paving um it's it's extensive because it's a piggyback bid it the the packet itself is over 236 pages but the City attorney had a chance to review the piggyback agreement um it's an agreement with Hillsboro County the the good thing about this particular piggyback is that it not only covers Paving but it covers a wide aspect of different different tasks so in in the next uh and this and it spreads out to 2026 so the good thing about us locking it in now with arpa we secure the funds but then over the next s for the for the life of the contract we can pick what jobs that we want to go ahead and do so it's not only tied into Paving if we want to do concrete work we want to do ditch clearing we want to do tree removal we want to do um Canal you know Canal cleaning um swell reconstruction covert repair um all different types this this particular contract covers all of that and I and I and I talked to over I was talk working back and forth with uh with Dave Reed from Ajax he's one of their senior consultants and he said he goes this this will this will give you a a broad scope of work to do over the next couple years so it it allows the city manager and staff to come up with different projects as opposed to just strictly dealing with Paving so and don't get me wrong Paving is covered under it so if we just want to do roads we can still do that but this allows us to you know repair sidewalks and do a wide variety of other tasks per you know per the per the bid contract that's good had the flexibility for sure right yeah so um we push to to to lock that in um as I said the City attorney had a chance to briefly look it over we have all the completed documents you know to move forward on this to at least lock in lock in the funds you know due by the end of this month so um if there's any questions we can go to a particular point of the bid contract or anything like that or the pricing pricing sheet I stand for questions I guess all those different services are priced in contract what they be yes like if if you go to to the pricing pricing sheet section of the of the packet that I sent and if you can pull page 235 235 yeah all of those different services are covered under this particular contract so yeah like I said it I mean they even have a segment there for litter removal if I wanted to hire them to go up and down US1 19 and pick up litter it's there if they you know if they're going to replace pipes uh covert pipes whatnot it's there they want to do concrete work which which actually helps not only sidewalks but if that was to do um concrete repair for utility main braks or anything else that is there um canal ditch clearing we can re you know if we need to clear out um storm water storm water swells and whatnot that is covered in this contract so this pricing sheet pretty much covers all the aspects so it gives us a wider range of things that we can do over the next couple of years and with the renewal of this which they just renewed with Hillsboro County it's good to 2026 very good any questions motion to approve you need a motion yeah motion to approve the AG I got motion for I'm sorry didn't I apologize motion second any further discussion any public like to speak signal hands I bring back for a vote all in favor 6y by saying I I opposed motion carries next up item number two City Hall Parking Lot ceiling I pass it to Mr cop for introduction yeah so the other item we wanted to put on there uh involves uh ceiling the the current parking lot here at City Hall is if you haven't noticed there are some uh upcoming issues with that that we believe uh by sing it will we'll make it last a little longer before we have to do a repaving a complete repaving of of uh the parking lot and I don't know s if you could actually brought up to brought this topic up to me a few few months back um we walked the parking lot and examined it um there are some issues um that we want to at least preserve the parking lot before considering having to Mill Mill and repave it I mean and pour new um asphalt on it um ceiling will is you know it's less inexpensive and it'll buy us more time um parking lot is you know coming on 26 years old so um actually redoing it in the future is going to have to be something considered um so but at at this time it's on we have we don't have any large pod holes or anything like that um there's going to be some repair work that Public Works will do before before we seal the parking lot we notice some root intrusion in some of the parking spots and um especially close close to some of the DRS in in the parking lot that they're going to go ahead and uh and cut out and then put put some new Asphalt in and then we'll have the parking lot sealed afterwards this also includes uh going ahead and remark the entire parking lot after they're done um this covers the entire All City Hall and the police department so basically we'll do the entire uh everything that's basically black top um we the the with the with the vendors I discussed with all of them at the time that we'll have to coordinate with the police department as far as availability so we'll have to just probably either do this in sections or you know hour there but I told them that they're they're going to be there 247 so we'll have to work out that schedule um the the the bidder that I chose is not not the lowest bid but that is only because they provide the uh for for I think it was like a $900 difference they provide a warranty um for a year on the material that they're using none of the other the other vendors did not and the lowest the lowest vendor did not provide a warranty so it was my recommendation for for the uh the difference of $900 was to go with the vendor that provided a warant for the sealant so I stand for questions the recommendation the recommendation is to go with G Coast Steel coat for 11924 yes move to approve the parking lot ceiling company which I don't have in front of me second it's G Co G Coast seal coat G Coast seal coat have a motion and a second okay any further discussion anyone public I comment see no hands I bring it back for a vote all in favor signifi by saying I I opposed motion carries uh that's all Council business next up is comments from the mayor and city council I'll start my right with councilman mu I'm good good vice mayor Rodriguez Merry Christmas councilwoman Burke okay okay I do have a couple things um I had reached out to Mike Wells um in in some of the conversations about substantial damage um we talked about potential remedies one would be to get an independent appraisal to raise the value it was kind of under the assumption that the that would affect the property taxes and I um I want to say I'd heard that from possibly female Representatives but anyway that information seems to be incorrect so I wanted to set the record straight on that so I reached out to Mike well specifically on that ask about if an indiv idual that finds himself in a substantial damaged situation if they get independent appraisal to adjust that value if there's any tax valuation implications and he he wrote back to me said good morning John this has become a common question for impacted residents and we encourage you to share the information below will my assessed value and taxes increase if I get an independent appraisal to submit to my building department the answer in most cases these appraisal reports do not make it to our office if by chance they do our office will take into consideration quality and condition noted in the report not the Value Estimate since the purpose and intended use of these appraisals is very different than that of our valuations however if physical changes were discovered we would be o obligated to review these improvements in the scope of our appraisal uh those with a homestead exemption have assessed value protection by virtue of the save our homes cap which would not affect their cap value as long as no physical changes or additional square footage has been added and no sub areas have been changed for example garage converted to living space second question will my property's assessed value increase if I repair or rebuild my home after Hurricane flood damage and the answer no as long as repaired or rebuilt home does not exceed 110% of the structures original square footage under Florida law if a property is damaged or destroyed by Misfortune or Calamity after the damage or destruction occurs the property owner may continue the homestead exemption the Calamity provision in Florida law protects Property Owners from an increase in their assessed value following copy when repairing rebuilding their property up to 110% of their original square footage the owner must notify the property appraiser that they intend to repair or rebuild the property and use the property as a primary residence following the completion of repairs sincerely Mike Wells Pasco County property appraiser so hopefully that bring some clarity to that issue um the other thing I had real quick obviously we've we've got vacancies on our board's committees um and the citizens advisory committee especially is may not even have quum at this point um but uh if it if it does it's a bare minimum so I do have a couple uh people that have sent in um to the city to be considered um one was Chris May here he's also on the board of adjustment and he would like to be considered for the citizens advisor committee um Echo so and then I have another one um from Matt Douglas he would also he would like to be a part of the citiz advisor committee as well as an Al to the Planning and Zoning Board so if you guys interested in AC okay just sure feedback oh there it goes there we go should be okay okay testing one two okay fingers crossed so there's any interest in in action that we can take these up one time if you want to look for a motion for Chris mayor for the C of committee if I may 1 since this is a special meeting to take to consider anything that's not on the agenda you need a consensus on the agenda and then you can address okay so if there's any interest in in U uh amending the agenda to uh take up some board committee requests look for a motion for that make a motion to consider board request to amend the agenda am the agenda is there second second okay motion second is there any discussion public comment see has bring back for a vote all in favor 65 by saying I I I oppos okay motion carries so now if there's interest in adding Chris mayor to the CI advisor committee I look for motion make a motion to add Chris May ass advisory committee second motion second any further discussion anyone public like comment see bring back for a vote all in favor 65 by saying I I I oppos motion carries and then I have another one Matt Douglas he's wanting both the planning zoning alternate as well as s advisor committee so we'll look for a motion for the cist advisor committee for Matt Douglas I make motion to add Matt douas citizens advisory ceter and the alternate for Planning and Zoning okay can do them at the same time um you can I need to go back to the other gentleman did you say he was on board of adjustment yes he can't be on anything else I don't think I'm double specific for instance like Lor Lori um is on planning zoning and committee so yeah different was Board of adjustment was something specific go ahead finish this point I'll get back to you okay it just popped is it okay together okay so I have a motion to for both the cisor committee and alternate plan Zoning for Matt Douglas is there motion second any further discussion anyone public comment see no hands I bring it back for a vote all in favor 6 by saying I I oppos motion carries one second [Music] sure if you're on the board of adjustment you can cannot hold any other appointed position oh okay came up before when Pat Rogers wanted to be on the Centennial and that's when it came whoever whoever the first one was he cannot unless he wants to get off Board of adjustment do we have to just go back and revisit that okay so I need to I need to remove the motion withraw my motion citizens advisory Council due to him being on the board of adustment okay and so do we vote to okay motion resend second well not a vote but a motion to resend and then this since you voted yes second to resend and everyone agreeing that's being resented okay so got motion a second to resend any further discussion any public I comment see to bring back for vote again all in favor say by saying I I oppose motion carries You' like tow from Board of adjustment he join hasn't met since I've been here so maybe he might want to that's interesting let me ask a question I don't know why that's in your um well we're have Charter review right after this we're addressing Charter so we could effectively address it there yes if that's a issue I don't know yes right now we can and then revisit yes and yeah so it wouldn't be effective till it's the charter is voted on yeah it'll take a little while okay um and that is all I have any um there's all the business on here but there's old business we want to talk about then upj motion to adjourn is there a second second all right motion second all in favor second saying I ier give me a couple minutes