I'm not coming. Calor City Port Richie City Council workshop Tuesday, April 7th, 2026. Like stand for the pledge. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation
under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Madam cler, please. >> Mayor John Eric Hoover >> here. >> Vice Mayor Chris Mayer >> here. Councilman Robert Huard >> here. >> Councilwoman Lisa Burke
>> here. >> Councilwoman Christine Sullivan >> here. City Manager Don King >> here. >> Thank you. Okay. First up is comments from the general public. I have no signups tonight. Anyone public like to comment? Okay. I'll close public comment and bring it back to com city manager. Pass it to Mr. King for his comments.
>> Just to get everybody up to speed. I don't know if anybody had the opportunity to look at their email today. I did uh pass forward some information kind of kind of the left and rights of what what we've got tonight and what we'll be dealing with and uh with uh Pedro and and
>> David >> David I hard time remembering history but I got yours this time. Okay. Uh just making sure that uh we're all on the same sheet of music as we talked here so we make productive uh uh discussion with what we've got as far as the medium project today. So hopefully we walk out of here with a solution uh the way
forward um because it's a great opportunity to take advantage of uh the this grant that we have, but we want to make sure we get it right. And so let's hopefully we get it right with the decisions we made tonight as we move forward so that we have what we want when we walk out of here uh within the uh guidelines of of what we can do at
this point. And this is based on multiple discussions with DOT uh individuals with the mayor spoke with who we spoke with and then speaking with the team over here uh just making sure that we were within the uh left and right of the scope that we had. U what I
would ask you as you look at this um don't let this be limiting. I know with the project that we have and the things that we will be doing there is a left and right but remember there's always a future here too and you know don't consider this you know an end all beall project. in the future if we move things forward we can may potentially make it a
a a phase three project of this later on down the road. So don't conceptualize you know uh yourself into a quarter here just look at what we have today and then think about you know the potentials here in the near future. So um that being said I'll turn it back over to Mayor.
>> Thank you. Um okay so that brings the council business item number one US19 median landscaping design presentation Kimley Horn Associates um turn over they got some presentation or go ahead >> David Flanigan landscape architect with
Kimley Horn 200 Central Avenue sweet 600 St. Petersburg. Uh, I wanted to start if you could just bring up the part of the PDF file that I had sent that's in your packet. Just a quick update from the time we spoke last on a a couple items that tried to address some of the
concerns you had which thank you for those as well. We were able to follow up with DOT in a roundabout way and Pedro actually unearthed some asbuilts. So, one of the restrictions we talked about at the time was that the design speed of the road was 50 miles per hour. that
limited us from doing these. We f we actually found out through some of the asbuilts there are portions, believe it or not, within our short area of the site where we do have some 45 mph design speeds where that would allow us to do some of the taller plantings we were talking about. There
are some areas within that that are still 50 where we're not. So, that was sort of a a good news. That was partially a good news situation. Primarily where we do have some options about going taller are if you want to call it on either end. So right when you
cross the bridge and then essentially up at Ridge Road. So that's good news. That kind of allows us to do a little bit what your concerns were talking about making it a nice entry and some of the things that I know Chris you had mentioned. The second part of it is is not quite as
good news. We are still limited by Florida statute regarding billboards which limits planting height of material within these visibility triangles which there's there's a sheet that's got a bunch of red markings on there that sort of outlines where we're limited.
Um a later sheet and I'm I'm sorry I don't even know what if you know what sheet number it is. It's it's it's yeah that one. So those triangles basically display where we are limited by
>> billboard statute. And and think of it this way, the three and a half foot height is not a random choice. That's considered the driver's driver's eye height as he's sitting in his car. And so the the billboard companies have lobbied and gotten Florida statutes paid so that any views
from a driver's eye within those triangles will be able to see the billboard. And I know Mr. Mr. Mayor, you had sent a a email to DOT and Mr. Hunter that I thought was very eloquent and asking about the whole geometry of the situation.
The general process I think you had a valid point. The general process that happens with the billboards is since it's a Florida statute, we have to send the plans to the billboard owners and they review it. And I can tell you they basically say any thing that's within
that that visibility cone, they're not going to allow anything above 3 and 1/2 ft. Even though I think I could make your argument where at 3 and 1/2 ft from the driver's eye, you could actually go higher within the median. Just long story short, we're >> kind of restricted. >> Yeah. And so for the rest rest rest rest
rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest of council. So the the green screening definition in floor statute says means the planting or installation of any vegetation or other landscape material which will reach a height reach a height greater than the height of the bottom of the lowest sign face as viewed from a height of 3 and 1/2 ft above the
roadway surface at the edge of travel lane closest to the outdoor advertising sign. So the the email he's referencing is I think the engineers or whatever said they they can't go above 3 and 1/2t. Well, three and a half foot puts you at the where you're supposed to start. So, of course, you go higher than three and
a half foot because as you're if you're three and a half foot above the roadway and you're looking up toward the sign, there's there's a there's a line that goes to the bottom of that sign that you could have height well above 3 and 1/2 ft. So, I guess and his answer was basically it's not well above 3 and 1/2
ft. It's slightly above 3 and 1/2 ft is the way he tried to answer it. And so the way the billboard companies interpret it is don't plant anything above 3 and 1/2 ft is and we're a little restricted because this is not DOT saying let's look at the plans and let's
calculate what the height would actually be on from this point specifically to that billboard. >> Instead they hand the plans to the billboard company to get their approval and they say yeah no trees within this triangle is procedurally that's how it happens.
>> Yeah. So just to explain kind of >> you know I I get that again there it sounds like >> they're being more restrictive than the statute requires >> probably. >> Um and if you I mean right across Ridge Road right here there's trees in that median there's a billboard right
here and how they get there >> it's it's actually outside the triangle where the trees occur now >> right in front of it. Really >> the good news is keep in mind the the the the restrictions in the triangle are only limited for like for instance if
it's only a south facing billboard then it's only restricted for north driving traffic. So that's where some of that nuance comes in. >> So anyway the bas based on those two things since we last talked that we were able to confirm and verify we do have
areas again down that last median down at the bridge and the the one closest to Ridge Road. we would be allowed to do some taller materials if you would like us to do some palms or whatever your choice. I know that was one thing that was mentioned about wanted to feel like Florida and then and accomplish those.
Yeah. So again, those we do we've got some limited spaces within the project area where we can actually do that. Now is sort of the the summary of the you know what we >> is it safe to say that if if we were to put together a plan with some with some
pawns in the other one that would what we feel would be within that statute that would go to them for approval. You're saying that they would not approve? >> Correct. >> Is so what is the process? Let's say they we send something to them. They say no we don't approve that. And is there an appeal or is there
>> it there's really not there may be a process to do that but it it will not go forward mainly because it's a Florida statute unless you want to change the Florida statute. >> I mean I >> if it's within a Florida statute I guess >> how can a sign >> no one agrees with you more than I do and I would love to be able to plant
that too but I I can tell you that that that's the way that's that's going to happen. >> Um and I think Mr. King spoke a little bit about is this is a phase. If at some point the statute changed, we could maybe plant more of that tall material here and there, that type of thing. That
that's something maybe to to go I I know Mr. Lari and when he talked to us initially, we're trying to to meet this deadline to get some some plant material on the ground based on this specific grant. So, we're trying to respond somewhat to that, which again, thank you for scheduling this meeting so quickly
because I know that was part of the equation, too, to get some things done as well. So, anyway, that's sort of the big picture thing. And if you had any specific questions, we can talk specific plant material or we can talk if you had additional thoughts or concerns or if you've had a chance to look at the plans
further since our last meeting, those types of things. So, I'd be happy to answer any questions regarding any of that. Now Dave, the only question I have is if we do decide to do palms, what specific type of palm would we be looking at? >> So the good news is so one, we'd want to
do something that's a little bit cold tolerance. Like I wouldn't recommend using a a royal palm or I know if you all have any specific palms you like. If you notice what is up and down other parts just on the way up here again tonight reconfirming there are some date palms which is the the broader head
which which is what what occurs I know Lisa the the area you were concerned about potentially not removing palms from those are date palms and those sort of a grander larger head that would be allowed sable palms are state tree they do great um mule palm is a good choice
for roadway situations they're fairly durable that type of thing um even come out here there's a couple areas that have um European fan palm which kind of looks like a a sable palm but the the fronds kind of hang down a little bit more just a slight different characteristic so there's some good
choices to do that are cold yes ma'am >> sorry can I get you repeat those >> sure see what they look like >> and if you go to the slide right before I think we've got a few of those are those palms on there yeah got some
photos but so um date palm Uh, sable palm, >> ribbon palm, >> ribbon palm, >> and then some of those ones we made we made in there that I noticed on the way up here are um, Chinese fan palm and mule palm.
>> Foxtail not an option. >> Foxtail. >> Foxtail is an option. It's a little touchy cold tolerance wise this far north. And I did you guys have any issues with freeze this winter? yard full of palms, all kinds of different ones. The worst thing I had a couple times fell down, but the rest of
>> they're okay now. So, it's funny because we've got a couple projects up near Orlando and Orlando got must have had a harder freeze inland because they had some areas that got wiped out with some foxtails this winter. So >> kind of self cleaning is why they >> they do and I know from meeting with your m your maintenance team. I know
there's concerns about that too that that's not necessarily a good thing where you you may want them to hang on to their fronds a little more so that they're you have to maintain them as opposed to falling on cars type of thing. So again those are the types of concerns to think about. >> But obviously
the main consideration from the what I think you're all looking at is more as an aesthetic concern. So you know what we can best do that. So, >> I mean, if we're just going to do the bridge and we're just going to do bridge road and we got to trim a couple palms, I don't think it's a big deal, you know?
I mean, I just that's our entryway and it shows where we are and we got to dress up the best we can. >> I don't disagree. I'm not trimming the palms either. So, I just >> I'm not either. I'm biased. >> You may get a different answer depending you ask, right?
>> Hey, it's either trim palms or pull weeds out of the ground one at a time. Anyway, >> so which of these is the best looking palm um that is safe for these? >> I would tell you the the more grand
looking is the date palm. It's got a bigger call it a starburst head. >> Is that what's what that's right there? >> That's what those are. >> That's what they are at at the little the pork chop island down there. >> Yeah, that is nice. >> They have kind of that pineapple look. that can freeze. So, those are pretty
durable. >> And I will tell you, they're more expensive than a sable palm, for instance, but they are a very different look and a larger aesthetic. So, there's advantages in in that sense. And I would
tell you it those if let's say we did three of those down near the bridge and three up at the north end that would be comfortably within the budget we've that that Sal's given us to to work with based on the on the grant which you're looking at. So >> what's the cost comparison between a
ribbon palm and a date palm? >> A ribbon palm is probably double the cost of a date palm per clear trunk height. Keep in mind, um, the nice thing about Sab Palms is I've been doing this 37
years in Florida. They're the price really hasn't changed a whole lot in 37 years, believe it or not. Like for raw material, you can get you can install a cabbage palm of almost any height for $500, $600 total, which blows my like everything
else has gone up a lot in 38 years, but that sable palms not so much. And a ribbon palm is probably somewhere around double the cost of that. >> So, so it would be sable palm and then date palm. >> Date palm is more expensive than that. >> Sable is the lowest then date and then
ribbon. >> And we want to be big enough to where you don't have fronds, you know, hanging down in the roadway. So you want I would recommend we're probably going 18 to 20 foot clear trunk on those. So a date
bomb that height I mean I can I can check within you know current prices they may have fluctuated slightly in the last week but you're you're talking somewhere around $3,000 per palm $4,000 depending on >> daytoday they do vary a little bit
>> like the the palm on her right >> so that the head looks like that except >> look kind of like >> it's never going to have a curved trunk like that that's more of like what a coconut palm would be. >> That's true. But that's that you're right. That's that's a long pinate leaf as opposed to a a sable palm is a
palmate leaf. More like the palm of your hand. The the frond kind of does that instead of long and slender. >> Exactly. >> The date palm is a great looking tree. I'm just Are we worried about this thing dumping all those They look like dates. Okay. >> They are dates. >> Edible sweet dates. I mean, are we gonna
have >> No. They're hard orange. They're and again I would tell you it's a great aesthetic. It looks great. The the orange color on the green. I will tell you people that have to maintain them probably curse them up and down.
>> Tractor trailers. >> That's probably hard enough they could shoot up and break a windshield. I imagine I mean they're like rock coconuts. >> Yeah. I don't know about break a windshield, but they're the and again a lot of times the the individual fruits
kind of fall off by themselves, but they do grow in these clumps and that clump could fall off. That that is definitely a consideration. Now, I would tell you in general, they're in the median and they're heavy enough that they would fall on the median most likely
and in in a hurricane. Clearly, we know that's not the case, but It's a maintenance concern. Absolutely a maintenance concern. >> So, what's the next tree that doesn't have something like that?
>> The mayor mentioned foxtail palms. >> They're a little cleaner in that sense. He even talked about selfcleing. In all honesty, they're all self cleaning. They just at various rates and stages, but they don't have the big fruing >> element. It's just the fronds you're dealing with, right? And they've got that
>> green say >> those could drop at any given time. could they they could and any frond of that size has got some weight to it right where >> so this between the sable and the ribbon which one does would be the cleanest less least uh
>> they're very similar and again like I was saying those are both palmate fronds so they're smaller so they're not as heavy so you could argue that's less dangerous in a sense to have those fall >> um you know if you all Washingtonia
palms. They're not a native, but they look similar to a um cabbage palm, but they grow much taller. They're the ones you see that are 80 or 90 ft tall. We used to do a lot of those, but they had a really bad disease about six years ago, and you like nurseries won't grow them anymore because they they're
worried about spreading the disease. I think at some point they'll come back. Those tend to be and they hang on to their fronds better. They actually call them a petticoat palm where they kind of hug the >> the trunk a little bit. It's Washingtonia palm. >> I would not recommend it just because
nurseries don't have them right now because they they got spooked by the disease. So it's it's kind of not a good idea to do that. So >> Oh, those are the super skinny ones. I'm sorry. >> Yes. Yes. They get really really tall. >> I just had a bunch of those removed.
>> The palm that holds its little, you know, the things you cut them off and it stays there and like for 40 years it looks like they've been growing up inside of >> that. So >> I don't like the look of that. That's a little funky. >> So, sable palms do that. Typically, when you specify a sable palm, you specify
booted or unbooted, and it means they've taken and they've basically shaved off those boots that are the old fronds down the trunk. We we typically I can't think of the last time I specked booted. He knows because I I would take in the plan and mark them up. That smooth gray trunk
looks better. >> Yeah, it's clean. The only time I specify ones and leave the boots on or if I'm doing like in the middle of a nature park and I want it to be a cluster so it looks like it's always been there and park that type of thing. It's just a different look. >> So it's just if if we were not telling
you what to do and we wanted a big fat nice welcome to Port's fine the fish's great go spend your money at our restaurants. What would you put up there? >> The ones that would be noticed the most would probably be the day bombs.
>> Okay. But I just to be upfront with you and and to express the concerns I know your staff has raised about the maintenance. I just want you to not be walking in blindly that though there are concerns with that that require to be addressed. And it probably means trimming off the dates before they get
to be a potential issue kind of. >> I've got palms on two lots and I maintain them all the time myself. I get ladders out cut them off all the way. >> That's not a US either. Here's here's a this is foxtails up here. >> Yeah, that's those are foxtails.
>> You know, they're they're very beautiful trees. They're very clean. They have a nice trunk >> and and to to your point, the the date palm has what's called a diamond trunk, and it's where those fronds have been removed on the trunk, and it's it's kind
of a nice pattern. The the nice look or the the direct aesthetic that you would choose if you were choosing a foxtail is it's that's that gray trunk. It looks like concrete almost and it's smooth and so it's it's almost like more, you know, what what do
you which look do you prefer? >> You you you picked a date over Foxtail. Why? >> Foxtail does have a slight concern with potential freeze. Now, I can tell >> once they're established though, you >> they do better once they're established.
And I can also tell you the city of St. Pete made a bad mistake about 25 years ago when we had did have a slight freeze and a bunch of palm shocked similar what you were describing in your yard and they started cutting them down and they neglected to cut some of the remaining
ones down and those are they came back just fine. So it's >> I I drove to Costco today all the way down to Clear Water and I noticed a patch of dead palms and they just planted them. They still got the things holding them up and everything. Yeah, >> there was a an issue with there.
>> It it could it might have been to the mayor's point may not have been established. I can also tell you any project we did the St. Pete pier five years ago in the installation. We had I think it was something like 750 palms on that site. We lost like 75 of them about
10%. That's about normal on a big project. Now if we're doing six or eight or 10 palms or something, >> we might lose one. >> We might lose one. But the good news is they're every contract rewrite specifications. They're warrantied for a year. So you're at least getting that
guarantee. Exactly. >> You know, also too, you don't you don't see a whole lot of foxtail palms. So they when you do see them, they really look good because I mean sable palms, they're all over the place. It's our it's our most common one. They're very
dirty palms. I mean, especially if you don't maintain, they get just a huge cluster of brown leaves just hanging there all the time. >> You got some of your >> I do. Hey, be like >> I think one thing you might consider is you all talked about making this a noticeable entrance and you know it's
we're now we're in Port Richie and this is wonderful. Maybe you want to be spec purposefully different >> down the road kind of a thing. So that's that's definitely a consideration >> that really set you apart. That's something I like >> because you you don't have a whole lot of space for trees. So, you want you
really want some good trees to really catch your eye. >> You had an 18 foot foxtail palm. >> You can >> you can get bigger than that. And and the foxtails are not as expensive as the dates either. They're they're more expensive than a cabbage palm, but they're not as expensive as a as a date
palm. >> I think they I've never seen a better looking palm tree in my opinion. I think they're really nice. Like so they do I don't think they really you don't really see a whole lot of dead branches on those that they're always >> No they because they >> they drop >> talk about being self cleaning they they
sort of release before they turn brown. >> Absolutely. >> It's a matter of really you don't have to get a thing out the area out there to cut them. You just go pick them up out of the medium. >> I mean worst case scenario we get a terrible freeze in a couple years and it wipes them out and just replant the trees. >> Plant trees won't Yeah. But I don't,
like I said, unless it's right after you plant them, once they take, you know, they're kind of taken off, you're pretty safe. >> I agree. >> Beautiful, too. >> And you got to water these things for quite a while when you first put them in, right? >> Yeah. And and again, when we the specs
we write as part of the plans we're preparing for you all include establishment period watering essentially for a year. So it a day, once a week, >> it it's ba it's actually dot has made landscape architects myself do a lot of
science to figure out and it's literally based on acre inches of water per plant over needed per week to be applied. And it's it ends up being being watered about once a week with a water truck in this case is the >> just go down there and pour it out
there, right? They literally do. And they sometimes they'll do water bags, which I don't like because then you actually see the bag out. If you're familiar with those, it's it's basically a a garbage bag that it slow releases water. I I don't prefer that. I I think it's more efficient to actually do the
the water truck. >> Anything else? >> Yeah. Um so media. Okay. Um, we're going to have a lot of lower stuff. There's I've seen the pictures of all that stuff. What you going to have mulch around it? >> We typically mulch and a lot of the
plants we did. We've got some call it more viny things in there too that sort of knit itself together. >> Fill it all in. >> And the idea is to have these beds fill in >> so they snuff out the weeds. >> That's the idea. I will tell you again, all landscape requires some maintenance.
Um there's somebody in this room that will be in charge of maintaining it. So they've got concerns about that. That that's the idea. If you recall, we also do have some banding that we have some gravel and things. I think we talked a little bit about last time DOT allows you to do a little bit of that, but they
don't want to do like the entire median as gravel because they don't consider that landscape. >> Maintenance on something like this. >> It's I will tell you if if you've maintained your yard, there are certain times of the year where the weeds tend to be a little bit more aggressive. It's it's typically right when you get sort
of that change into when it gets really hot in the spring and then probably again sometime in midsummer. It's what's our our project length? Are we a mile >> about a mile? It's we typically calculate man and maybe
maybe you can chime in on what it what it takes to get if you had a man if you had one person assigned to handle the weeding of of a mile worth of 12t wide median beds on a per day or per month.
>> So this is just me speaking I don't feel comfortable having just one guy in the medium of US 19. you typically have should be closing a lay down especially with cars that close. So that is going to have to know you're going to be closing a lay >> just that because we've almost had
people get hit in the medians on 19. So I was actually going to probably try and get this contracted out just like Newport does to have it landscaped, have it maintained because they already have the MOT, they already have the contacts
with DOT, they're already set up for it. I'm just trying to make sure we're not creating maintenance. You know, we're looking back, you know, two years from now saying, what were we tanking? You know, the weeds are growing up higher than the stuff where all of a sudden we're like, let's kill it all, you know, weed kill the whole thing. Start again
from scratch, you know. >> Yep. >> Yeah. So, you're saying you're not making me feel any better? >> Well, I know that there's going to be maintenance to any of it that So, the whole palm tree thing, you're going to have to get a lift out there. You're going to have to shut lanes down. you're going have to get up there and cut them.
That's going to be something a professional company's going to have to come do. Um, now the maintenance part of it, you are going to have to have someote in order to So, we're going to have to purchase sign boards, probably cones, have the guys out there and and
maintain it. Now, now they just kind of park a truck there in the way and and cut what they need to cut, which >> right now, >> which isn't uh but they still do cut some of the areas and still maintain some of the areas. They do have to be cut in front of uh like where you're at.
>> Um that median still gets cut. One of my guys, they were weeding and watched the guy get hit on a bike right 10 ft in front of him. So, it's not the safest thing. And they do put the truck there in front of them. So we hit the truck instead of them first, but it's not the
right way, but it's a way. So just think about stuff like that >> in the decision. I know you guys want to make it all look beautiful, which I agree with 100%, but we also have my original as well. >> You know, somehow somewhere we're dropping a half million dollars. Why
can't we get something that's like maintenancefree? Like in my houses, I won't do mulch anymore. I won't. It's going to be all cloth and it's going to be a few plants and it's gonna be lots of rocks and that's going to last you 20 years and you're going to spot spray the weeds and everything else is going to
look like a million bucks. So, is that a I don't want to throw a bunch of rocks 19 either because then all of a sudden we're buying lots of windshields. I'm just >> It's a great concern and believe it or not, you're not the first client that's asked me for no maintenance landscape. There's no such thing. >> Well, how even even if you have your cloth and your rocks, there's still some maintenance. You're still going to get
some weeds come up. You're still, you just described yourself spot spraying weeds. That's part of what this would be. I can also tell you that if he's got a crew out there once a month shutting down a lane and doing maintenance, you can probably take care of that median in less than a day. The the it's like six
medians. If you do that every month, it's not that big a deal. If you wait six months, it's you're going to see more weeds and they're >> where I'm going with this and you're part of this. We're doing this. We're dropping all this money because we want
to make it look a little bit more like, hey, you're in corporate now versus like, hey, you're somewhere in, you know, western Pasco County driving through who knows where. You know, that's the way it all looks. We want to change the look of things, which is why we're really getting, you know, excited about putting something nice out there. You're preaching to the choir and what I
would tell you is if you spend this money which Sal and his team have gone to the the extent and acquired to get that paid for I recommend you take the expense of what you just described get a maintenance contract underway where you
it's outlined how often they're going out there weeding where you have control where you can say hey I see weeds out there you need to go take care of that so that you've got it in writing and yes there is a cost to maintain it but you know exactly what you're paying for. >> So Darl, you think we sub it out versus
down there messing around with it? >> Yeah. By the time we buy airboards, message boards, all that other stuff, it's going to be pretty much almost the same price as maintenance contract cost of this. Get ahead of the aball and and look at it. I mean, you
guys are eventually going to be the deciding factors. Well, I I mean it I mean that it's relevant for the fact we got to maintain it, but it's not really relative to this conversation of what we do. Whatever we do, we have to some kind of maintenance involved with it. And I think going forward, we decide we're going to maintain ourselves. We're going to find it out. >> It's all relevant because it depends on
what we put in the ground. >> Well, you're still going to put Well, you're saying if we contract that, we're going to put more maintenance stuff. >> If you got a house and you're flipping a house and you're going to go out there and say, "Okay, we're going to put vinyl siding on this house." Okay. Well, that stuff's going to fade and it's going to have barbecue grill put up against. It's
going to melt and all that stuff. We put hardy siden on it and the hardy siden is going to last through all kinds of stuff including fires and everything else and it's not going to buckle or get weird looking. You're just going to have to paint it once every 10 years. >> Well, depending on what you put too, your your maintenance contract is going to fluctuate. If you've got a heavy maintenance load of of vegetation out
there, the price is going to be higher on the on the contract to clean it up. >> That's what I'm saying. rocks with spot hitting, >> you know, a couple things here and there is different than putting out just straight greenery stuff and having the weeds grow everything. >> So, that's what I'm thinking. The relative of how we uh how we maintain
it, I don't know that that's necessarily relative right now, let's we want we want to pick something that's going to require as low maintenance as possible. And then whether we do it ourselves or perform it out, that's a whole another story. >> You're speaking my tune. I'm trying to figure out what to put in there that is as low maintenance as possible. I would tell you the plant palette we've shown
you is as low maintenance as you're going to get >> and there's a lot of color. >> We discussed that as low maintenance as possible and as colorful and vibrant as we can get it and that's what we >> and I I don't want in all this. >> Yeah, we met we met with Mr. King and
Mr. Vari and and and hold accountable after >> I'm kind of surprised with the fire bush because that spreads that's >> it. It does. And that will spread out. And again, >> it's pretty, but it will
>> it does. And again, in some ways, that's that's good. It depends what the look you're after. You want to spread and and sort of drown out the weeds in a sense, too. So, that's part of >> between the curve, right? >> Exactly. >> And again, we have to be a little careful. We can't have stuff hanging out
into traffic. But again, that's part of the maintenance. And and one thing we offered to Mr. King when we met with him. We're happy to look if you want to go >> put the plans out even before they're installed to get a price on maintenance. We're happy to look at the proposals you get back and we can tell you based on
what we see on other projects. Yeah, that's out of this world. That's they're they're charging you twice as much per lineal foot of roadway that we saw down here and and at least have some eyes on it for you and just offer an opinion on that. So, we're happy to to provide that service as well. We don't have a lot. So
if we dress it up and we maintain it well, it will look like a million bucks, you know, versus thinking we got six miles of it or whatever. >> Very true. Very true. >> Can I can I share again real quick? So, you know, when I when I think about stuff that's low maintenance and when I
think of these type of things with um you know that I aloe is a good word, but um you see some of the stuff in Florida that really they it's that's pretty hardy. It doesn't require a lot of maintenance. It looks nice if it's if it's done nice.
I don't see you have anything like that in your >> So, I see you're leaning heavily on succulents, which is fine. Well, that's just an example. I just >> No, no. I I understand. And and again, we're we're happy to entertain. What we tried to stay with one based on our experience in roadways and two based on
the direction that your your staff gave us was lowmaintenance, hardy, be native or naturalized where we can. So, we tried to stay within that. Another thing we try to do is make sure we have stuff that is readily available by nurseries. A lot of stuff is not grown. It doesn't
mean any of those things you showed like you had there's Thai plant on there and and oyster plant. I wouldn't put those in roadways because they don't do very well with like um oil and that kind of environment. They they have issues with it's it's it has to do with the acidity
of the soil that you get changes. So we want stuff that's sort of durable that does well in not a very nice environment >> kind of a thing. >> And we were looking for stuff that was resilient and stuff that was storm recoverable. Yes. And so the stuff we did we've got in there too is
essentially salt tolerant. I will tell you it's not necessarily going to withstand 3 days of inundation. If we have an issue with Hela like we had like none of us ever want to see again that type of thing. But if we get occasional inundation with some salt water and it goes out pretty
quick it'll it's resilient and will come back and and not an issue. So we we tried to tailor it a little bit on that that with those some of those design tenants. >> So if I'm clear where we are right now, the original plan is a good plan. You're
just going to add like six to eight palm trees out there for us >> pretty much. We'll see what we can how much room we have. Yep. We've got there's a couple limitations. You can't be closer than x number of feet to the end of the median when there's a turn lane. So there's there's a little bit of limitation on that. But the good news is we do have places where we can add that
for you like you want. So basically you'll design it roll with the project and you'll surprise us. We'll look at it and say hey it looks great that you're going >> we can add the plants to the like quickly like within a day or two and get those back and for you to review however you want to handle
that and have those ready this week essentially. >> You understand what we're looking for right? >> Yeah. >> Top of the bridge. >> We're here right? >> We want to do it without a million dollars on it. We want to do it with many half million dollars of palm trees. >> Yeah. Million dollar look for half million
dollars. >> That's what I'm talking about. >> Can we go to page 28? >> That's the US 19 view. >> Yes. No. Um, it had it looks like
um a conceptual planting. Actually, it's 20. Oh, it's Yeah, it is 28. 28. You see the chem law group sign? >> Everybody's on it. So, it's just not on these. Okay. >> Right.
>> Rather than having these groupings of the red and then grouping of the orange, could we have something more intermingled than that? We can do that. I'll tell you one thing we typically do in roadways because partially what you're doing is
your experiences as a driver 45 miles an hour. If you do what you just described, it looks blank and less impactful, which sort of speaks against what Chris was talking about about wanting this to be a wow welcome. the larger massings grab
your eye more and and part of the reason for that is you're exper you're not you're not standing still experiencing even though we probably all would be out there occasionally walking on the sidewalk etc but primarily the experience is driving 45 miles an hour or probably faster than that if folks
are driving faster. So that's sort of why we did the mastings. We we we can change that. I I typically wouldn't recommend doing that in these types of situations, but >> is it so narrow and >> partially a mix would be good, >> right? You would you would kind of
dilute the look of the plants that you're trying to >> So you think it might actually come out looking something similar to this? >> Yeah, very correct. Correct. Okay.
the page 28. Let's just take page 28, which is right there. Is Is that what the majority of this is going to look like? Just that because I'm just telling you, I'm not I'm not picking on you. That's not like Wow. There's no wow factor in there at all. Looks like maybe that's been there for 5 years and it was not maintained.
>> It looks like a bunch of dandelions. >> Well, that did we put what's the the ground cover we had in there? >> Perial peanut. That was a choice. It does. It doesn't have to be the yellow flowers. We could pick something else. >> The yellow flower is not bad. It's just you got this big red looking thing and you got the yellow thing. It doesn't
look very >> major. Looks like Okay. >> Looks like a dude with a bad haircut. You know what I mean? >> I will. And again, we talked about low maintenance as possible. It's not It's not supposed to look manicured. It's supposed to look There should be massing. It should look full and
healthy, but you don't want it to be topiary at Disney because that would mean more maintenance. >> Trim. Yeah. Trim it all the time. Yeah. >> We We want it to look healthy and full and like Florida and and I'm not sure what is lacking for the Wow. And partially is it because we
we literally cannot go any higher in this specific instance because we're limited by the 3 and 1/2 ft of shrub element that so that's part of our limitation is we it probably would look more wow if we were able to go some taller things and again we're going to get that on the ends now based on what
we were able to do on near the bridge and near Ridge Road. But that and see this is a great example of what I'm talking about. This was taken from a car. >> Right. >> Right. And you can see that you've got all kind of space before you can get close to the bottom of that sign >> from there. But if you were right up
next to the red shrubs, you wouldn't if if the if you're the driver if the car was up another 100 ft next to those. >> Yeah, but >> believe me, I I couldn't agree with you more mayor. >> That's all I'm saying. Yeah. How far? That's that's all debate. >> Sign lobbyist plenty of money and their wine was done lawmakers. Have any of you
been around long enough to know when they they wrote the law in 1995 to outlaw all billboards in Florida? Anybody remember that? They and it got shot down. I mean, it passed. It was it was law and the sign lobby totally got rid of it within six months. Like,
>> now I want to go back to this picture here. Um because you do have massing there. Um, as I look at it, is there the potential to to to spread that massing out a bit so that we have a plant or
vegetation that expands? So, let's say you've got the purplish type flowers. Let's say you bring it forward about 30 feet, >> but as it grows, it expands and starts to to fill in that space collectively over time. >> Yes, we can we can Yeah. And maybe I should have mentioned that and I I was
assuming that in my head. we can come further closer to us, if you will, in the camera where we've got the perennial peanut and do more massing or change it up a little bit. >> So, giving it an opportunity to to as it grows, it masses into the other the other the other types of flowers. So,
you've got a little bit of break in between, but over time as it as it matures and our in our medium matures, it it it masses itself out. If if if one if we can't fill it all in, can we eventually mass it into position? >> Yeah. And again,
That's literally how you want to maintain it. If you want if you want to let you know to Christine's point, if you wanted to let it sort of intermingle a little bit, you can let it maintain and some of that will do that. I would also recommend and what we've shown currently on the the conceptual plans is we have planted these very densely
because we've got the budget to do it based on the monies available which gives you a more immediate impact as opposed to a typical thing. Maybe we're planting three feet on center for a three gallon shrub. I think we we're currently done like a two feet or or 30 inches on center. So, we've we've
already tried to densify that, if you will, to get a more immediate impact because we've got the money in the budget to to account for that on on the limited distance that we're dealing with. >> I just post that. >> Yeah. Are >> these dividable at the root to where
they could be when they grow when they mature? Could they be divided? Christine, can you Sorry. >> When they grow, could they be divided? say like a hawk steak, you can take a shovel and just go through it and then you have two hog stoves for >> No, I know exactly what you're saying.
Um, some of them are like that and you could they kind of do that on their own and they they sucker up on their own. They they put out >> right >> roots if you will that end up coming to the surface type of thing. >> They're not exactly like hostas but not
not dissimilar. >> Yeah. Anything like that that could eventually turn into more plants to where we're not purchasing them, but we're just moving them into position would be great. >> Yeah. And they and again, they'll do that on their own within the confines. >> You're talking about maybe harvesting
those and taking >> intentionally. Yeah. >> I I honestly have never had someone do that, but there's no reason you couldn't >> as part of the maintenance. I was thinking just to gather them up and put them in where >> Yeah, it's a farm now. >> Do they grow to tell this? Do they go
through there and loosen up all the soil? They just dig a hole and drop the water in there. >> We have so our the plans will have spec requirements for soil. They may actually have to come in and take out some of the existing soil >> good soil >> because I can tell you right just from when Pedro and I were out there walking it, there's a lot of areas that have a
lot of >> cigarette butts, bottle caps. Well, not only that, but even like like a high content of like calite or gravels or, you know, debris, which again, plants are pretty hardy and they'll sort of take, but we need to start with good
fresh. So, I guarantee they'll be taking out probably 6 to 8 in of that existing soil as >> garbage away. Yep. Good. >> Yep. Planting soil, which the good news for us, planting soil in Florida is essentially 70% sand and 30% lom. It's very inexpensive relatively, whereas if
you're doing this another part of the country, you're actually bringing in really expensive top soil to get it to grow. So, we're we're in a in a better situation because of that. >> We had said we were going to stop at Ridge Road. Don't we go past Ridge Road with this project?
>> Are we one median past Ridge? I thought Ridge was the last. >> Yeah, I think I think the last med >> is just a little Okay. >> I I may have misspoke, Chris. >> Okay. Adjacent. Adjacent with Walmart. Walmart's entrance. >> I got you. Okay.
Sorry. Um, have y'all ever done any any astroph in the meetings? >> We have not. I I don't think I've ever done that in a roadway median. I'm honestly not sure how DOT would react to that. I'm just
thinking because I always like that because if it's grass you got to cut it all the time but you know grass median instead of mulch but grass with with plants and stuff intermix in there always looks really nice. I know how it would look with with acetone as an option. Obviously that's low maintenance but
>> even and I and I understand your concern and again you talked about it potentially in your yard too. Um, one, it's got a lifespan. Believe it or not, it'll it in the sun, even the highest quality artificial turf will probably last you 8 10 years. And it's
>> again, if you're open, I honestly don't know that DOT would approve that for paying for a a highway beautifification type situation for for that. Um I the projects I have done it on more recently are more like um a commercial frontage where they're trying to limit
where or they're trying to utilize a space to have picnic tables and things like that where they don't want to deal with it. We try to stay even away from doing a lot of grass out here because everybody talks about low maintenance, no maintenance. Grass is very high maintenance. You got to mow it. >> Yeah. >> You know during the rainy season you're
mowing it at least once a week if not more. I was just thinking, you know, you've got these sectioned off spots through the media, you know, like instead of throwing in something that grows like throwing throwing some astro right here and then make some growth there and some growth and it kind of
makes it kind of looks like a really tight >> and that's what we tried to do with the gravel and I and I think you could probably argue it and ask the question of dot and take say hey what if in some of these areas we did an aster we we we could actually put that as an alternate in the plan if you would like us to.
They may say, "You're full of it. Don't do it." But it >> Do you fabric it before you put the rock down? >> It Yeah, it's typically the cross-section they do. It's got a um You don't need It doesn't need to be a hard surface, but typically it's got, believe it or not, it's got like a gravel base underneath the turf. Okay. >> So, you'd kind of you kind of be paying
for the gravel you're already putting on the plans right now and just doing a fabric separator. >> Thinking of a turf, just the rock that you're talking about. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Like a weed barrier. Yes. Yes. >> There. Yeah. Yeah. >> So, if we get growth, it's going to pop up around the sides. >> We can also, if you would like, I think
we'd be okay in budget. Again, just we're not talking about miles and miles of this. You can there is a weed barrier fabric you can do within the shrub beds, too, that basically you lay it's typar is one of the manufacturers named like Kleenex there. And it's it's a weed
barrier fabric that goes beneath the it goes on top of the soil and then you you literally cut a hole out to plant every plant and then the mulch etc goes on top of that. >> We we can specify that if you'd like. >> I've had mixed results with it. You you
end up getting some weed growth anyway sort of up in the mulch on top of it, but I could also argue those weeds are probably easier to pull out than the ones that are rooted heavily into the soil kind of a thing. So, it's kind of a I don't normally expect that, but we're we can certainly include that in the
plan set if that's something you guys want to do. >> I'd feel better about that. What about you, Darl? >> All right. So, six trees, fabric, existing stuff we got going on here. I think I'm a thumbs up. You guys thumbs up on that? Anybody? between the
park >> and keeping the trees that are already there >> in the Yeah, in the other meeting. >> There's one blocking sign blocking the sign. >> I'm sorry. Say it again. >> There's one tree blocking this the new sign we're going to put up. >> Oh, I gotcha. >> Remember we saw that in the Where's that at, Eric?
>> Is it the one corner? Washington. >> What? Washington >> where they want to put the digital sign. There was >> there was a tree in the way of that. We wanted to make sure that we weren't blocking that. >> I don't know if the placement or whatever there was. Was there was it based on the image we provided that was
blocking the sign. Okay, keep in mind we approximated the sign where we think it's going to go. Okay, maybe your sign folks can adjust that slightly to avoid that. But >> probably get it in there without having to do any tree work. >> It would be ridiculous for us to spend all this money on signs and then put the sign in the middle of three trees that were blocking.
>> No, we wouldn't do that. >> Yeah, we got a whole we got a whole project for that. >> Okay, cool. >> And the quality control for the installation of those. We're not proposing any new trees that would block signage there. So if your signage to to Mr. King's point and install the sign without being blocked by the existing
trees >> here, let me share Ashley. >> Page 26. >> Just go back to what? >> So like if you look at this photo here, let's see if I put that bigger. you see if you augment some grass in there along your your your massings
>> if it was astroturf or something that you would have to maintain it has a much better look to it I think um and then also if I go back um there's another example here but I mean >> it it would have to be out turb if you got grass out there these guys would be
walking mountain right there >> right >> this little overkill see how they've got kind of you know >> I I agree entirely I will tell you notice how high that second tier is. And even the one prior to that, it looks to me they burmed up the median and they've planted stuff that's way over three and a half feet.
>> Yeah. No, I'm just saying. >> No, I I I know what you're saying. >> Look at layers. I just give you some >> So the one and and again, I wouldn't recommend I think some of those areas. We're probably not going to be able to get aas out there, but we could do something where more of a a plant in the
center of the median has a mass that's at the three and a half foot height and then drop down to a slightly lower one with some color on the sides. that maybe maybe that speaks a little bit to your point about >> not so much intermixing them but it's it sort of ends up being a layer. Yeah, absolutely. >> See like >> like one big blob that's a little more
defined >> something like this with whatever you have minmixed in there but you have >> like that. Yeah. be grass ground cover or something around there is low maintenance and like I said if they would allow accent of astral turf that would be >> and again I I think we can show that as
an alternate in the plans and see what they say and they may say and again astro turf does have a higher cost so just it's you're looking at probably 10 or 12 dollars a square foot give or take >> I don't know if we need astro maybe just a low growth something there
>> some ground cover or something I think that's definitely valid and then put some else nicer stuff there. >> Yeah, I think that's a better solution actually. >> That way we're not budgeting our budget. >> Yep. >> That it was on the screen. I didn't have the word.
>> That's what you meant, right, Christine? >> That's what I meant. >> I was feeling over here. >> Yeah. Thank you. Me just right. Yeah. Uhhuh. Any other questions? >> So, I guess next step is you guys go back and draw something up.
>> We'll update the plans based on your feedback tonight. Get those to Mr. Licari and then, you know, you'll have that in your hands. You can go from there. >> Awesome. >> Do we do we agree on the fox tails? Is that >> I think we agreed on foxtails. >> You okay with that? >> Yep. >> Foxtails. This >> cool.
>> Sounds beautiful. >> Love those. >> Are you okay? >> Call them poop or foxtails. Are you okay? Hoover tails. Can't wait. >> Cleaning. They're self cleaning. >> You'll be out here taking a selfie. I can see it.
>> We'll get him a maintenance crew. >> Okay, there questions. Thanks. Thank you. >> Thank you so much. Appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> Great to see you all. >> Thank you, >> David Pedro. Once again, behalf of the team, council, thank you for everything you guys have been doing with us and and
continue to work with us and um we look forward to final project. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Thanks. >> Okay, that that concludes council business. Next up is our comments from the mayor and city council. I start with uh Councilwoman Burke. Thank you.
>> Council Sal left um golf crossing. Is that going to be done before the landscaping? >> Well, when was landscaping? That's a good question. >> They're putting curbs in and stuff. They said
>> that's going to be We'll have to get back with you on that one because it's all going to become time sensitive. What I'm what I what I what I p per pursue right now is that we'll probably get the landscaping in first based on the timelines that we're getting back from Department of Transportation for the
Grand 19 Boulevard. So that's moving a little slower than we wanted to right now. >> Yeah. >> Well, fortunately, >> if the if we get the uh >> we can pause it in the process if if we need to, but as long as we get everything in and actionable, it's got to be in the system and moving
>> the uh if we get the appropriation, the earliest we'll be able to start on Cran Boulevard be July 1st, I think. >> Yeah. So, if we get the appropriation, >> I was doing damaging the plants and digging up and >> and the optimal time that they that they were considering putting the plants is summertime because they said that would
probably be optimal for them to get them in. >> Well, they're only doing the medians, right? >> Correct. >> So, the the Grand Boulevard shouldn't impact any of the medians there because there's no median >> on Grand, but that's on the other side. >> It's not a median though, right? >> It looks like there's a plan. >> They're playing on the sides when it
comes together. There's not just the median in the middle. It's the side piece in between. >> They're put they're changing curbs. >> Page 26. >> That area right there. What's >> that? >> The grant is only for the median.
>> Well, the medians aren't included in the side pieces though, >> right? Because there's drawings of side pieces here. >> What what they're saying, I think what Ashley's saying is >> page n >> the landscaping design that's going to be done way before the crosswalk's done. So if the crosswalks affect that, then
that'll have to be ripped out. And >> so is this >> on page 26 where it shows the digital sign there and the trees that we're leaving in there, you see all other stuff. Is that part of the medium project? >> Yes. >> Yep. >> Seen the medium project? I haven't seen
the plans for that, so I couldn't >> speak on that. >> They're plant plants in there. >> Yeah, we've discussed that. It was worth the trees were going to come out. They were going to do a a smaller version of >> you have to overlay these plans. >> Obviously, we're widening that putting a protected left in on both sides. So,
>> well, the some of the things to also consider is one, we got a media project going on. We've also got the we've also got the US19 project, but we also have the sign project. So, there's a lot of there's a lot of impact in there. So what we what we for the council need to do is we need to
make sure that we phase that that project as people are doing those process pieces so that we're not throwing things in and have to rip them out pull back out. So that's leave that on us to make sure that we follow through for you to make sure that we're covering that. But if there is issues where we end up getting ahead of ourselves with the medium project then
we're just we're just going to have to figure out how we go back in and reset after we go in and do the the science. I think that that the big piece is one getting that that intersection done correctly and then getting that sign in there. >> Yeah. >> Correctly. >> Yeah. Like finding project has to be
done before you plant the ditch >> which Yeah. I think the most important thing to keep in mind is that and correct me if I'm wrong council but uh the only thing that's holding us back from well two things hold back. One, we got to get the DOT permitting. What's the update on that, S? Is have we made
any head headway on that? >> 19 grand. >> Are we talking about something different? >> Grand Boulevard crossing. >> Uh, yeah, we're still working on the permit. So, as soon as the J has the permits. >> Okay. So, once if they was to say today
we've got the permit, we technically could move forward. We got the plans and everything ready to go, right? We'd put out the bid be 30 days or so. Um, so, so, so we're going to move forward one way or another on that. The only thing as far as timing is obviously we've we've we're in the hopper for that $250,000 appropriation for that. So, if
we were to get that, we would have to wait till at least July 1st, >> I think it would probably be, >> but with that grant, they're just going, you know, basically to because what it is, it's going to come in the form of a grant for the for the construction side of it. >> We'll already have the drawings. We'll have the permit in place.
>> We just can't shovel in the ground until July 1st. Otherwise, it won't we won't get it. >> Right. So, >> that'd be the only cave. >> We we'll pretty much have everything to satisfy that that contract and paperwork when they send us that appropriation. >> It sounds like best case we're going to be at right about that time anyway based on the bid process and all that.
>> And the bigger piece of this sale is deconlicting the three projects ongoing at the same time. The sign, the median, and then the grand 19 boulevard. >> Well, the thing is is that even well, the signing will will depend on a lot of things. um you know even if we have to
if we have the medians done during you know we're still waiting on the uh estimated time of the sign project we'll leave that particular area bare you know and uh >> something in >> it all depends what we you know when we get the final when we get the final drawings I don't think we were going to
repave that because I mean that's >> because it's pretty rough >> it's very rough >> but that's FDOT's you know roadway so we're just basically remarking our easements on that side. I'd have to find out >> the apron coming in. >> Yeah, that's the the apron the apron
going out and the apron. There's there's a certain certain amount of feet that's on the city side and there's certain amount that's on the FDOT side. I'll have to take a look at the I'll have to talk to the engineer and the plans to see if we're talking about remilling the whole thing. But that will but then once
again going on that you're going on FDOT's time because that intersection belongs to them you know the whole center of that intersection is FDOT you know the three lanes of 19 on both sides we're more or less talking about before the light that
the changes where >> right why don't we paved uh ridge there by the Walmart we went almost I'm assuming that it's the same distance if you want green that distance. So, >> which that's there's it's pretty bad as you approach that like at least on the
east side. >> West I don't think is as bad, but >> Okay. Anything else? Okay. Vice Mayor Mayor. >> Um, no. I'm I'm just I'm I'm a little
bit concerned we didn't have any citizens show up here to help give us guidance and input. I'm thankful the two that did show up. Um, but it would have been nice if we had additional people here to do this. I don't know whether there's something that we're not doing, you know, to get the people here or
whether they just >> shared it two times. >> What's that? >> I I created a uh >> Can we put it on the city website? >> Yeah. >> Twice city website. It was sent out to multimedia through all our citizens. um
other adjacent Facebook sites posted a couple times as councilman just said. So I mean it was out there. >> I guess it's just when you have something really in their face, something that's going to change. This is just a minor thing and they're just
like >> they don't come. >> It sounds like by the end of the year Richie is going to look like a different place on 19 >> and I thought that was pretty significant. What I also think is is as they see this
project, you're going to start getting that population in for those following meetings for things that occur because I think what they're wanting to see is they're wanting to see the project. >> Not I was going to say knocking on doors and visiting people in the city and I've been doing that. These homes, these low
homes are getting filled. People are going in there. Yeah. >> People are renting them again. They're they're they're looking past the flood. They're saying, "Hey, that was a once in aundred year." So, we are getting people back in the city and which is great for us that regrowth that we needed where the other people left and moved in with their kids, whatever they did somewhere
else. So, this is a positive thing. I'm thankful we're doing it. Thanks everybody for all your input. For those of you on staff who have worked so hard for it, thank you so much for that. >> Okay, I don't have anything else to add either. So, with that for a motion
motion to >> second motion second. All in favor signify by saying I. >> I thank you.