the changes that are being proposed temporary signs must follow the same duration limits so political signs will not get any special or different treatment than other signs that are put out rules will depend on the zoning District not the message in the in the signs as in residential areas may allow a smaller sign and a commercial Zone may have a larger
sign other things that are being proposed to remove labels like political signs or real estate sign that's already currently in the code um inste All Temporary signs must meet the same height set back and duration requirements compliance is now based on physical characteristics the size the placement or the duration again not the
content additional changes that we have been proposed are prohibiting certain kinds of signs inflatable signs and devices vehicle signs roof signs projected light signs signs obstructing visibility or traffic signals billboard and off-site advertising band new Billboards will be
prohibited in all zoning districts definition the new um ordinance will Define what constitutes new and Outdoor Advertising Signs non-conforming and abandoned signs non-conforming signs will have to be removed or brought into compliance within 90 days after the ordinance has passed and they'll be stricter
requirements for maintaining abandoned signs additionally additional permitting and enforcement there'll be stricter signed permit requirements than you currently have applications will be reviewed within 30 days and that there's now an appeal process should you disagree with the building official's decision on your permanent
application design design and Aesthetics going to encourage Monument signs over pole signs requiring landscaping around Monument signs and ensure materials match Building architecture for a more pleasing Aesthetics throughout your community and that's why you're here you
want to hear from you the board wants to hear from you your ideas these are proposals except for the the content that we cannot really everything else or suggestions this is a LGE if you see in the actual ordinance very long um there's a lot of wear as Clauses a bunch
of lawyer talking there taking shape over many years from um lawyers throughout my this has kind of been brought together by very helping a lot of different communities so there may be some signs that we recommend in here to prohibit that you guys really want and that that's okay let us that's why we're here
to have that conversation um this is not I'm saying You must do it this way is your just suggestions and so to just have that conversation great as such I guess we can do it we'll open up to the public currently when you if you
just choose to speak please forward to the podium and that's your name your location where you live and then we're going to try to keep it normally time we use and utilize for like three minutes is your maximum time to speak but I want to hear what you have to say the board
wants to hear what you have to say so it's we're going to kind of make it as very much a very free flowing open Forum so because we're gonna We may have so anybody like to speak sir hello I am uh dell heson of Pasco
science and printing we are uh licensed electrical signed contractor right across the street so I had a couple questions in going through this and uh maybe it's straightforward um 123.3mi with an arrow is that what
that's indicating that that's no longer going to be allowed did I misunderstand that3 123 uh sorry 1213 34 I believe commercial mascots and Commercial message signs that are carried waved or otherwise displayed by
persons on public rights of we in a manner visible from public rights of way would appear to be under the sign specific speically prohibited is that accurate I'm looking sorry trying to find
it on page 15 34 34 34 did I say 24 yeah you said three 3.4 3.34 yeah 1213 34 page
19 yes the intent behind 34 is the the person that you sometimes see that are on the side of the road holding signs twirling signs trying to get the driver's attention you know puppies this way that kind of thing that is what that's intending to um eliminate for commercial reasons obviously it's still
allowed for right if it's a W for for political reasons and things for political is different okay all right that's a I mean I don't do that but some of my customers do I've made signs like that for people in the past and so I want to know so that I know what I can if somebody says Hey I want to sign like
that I can say well code doesn't allow it if that's if that's really what that's intended to be um so that was one question another question is on the next page uh would be about Flags so it's
section 121 D4 Point number three it says Flags displayed on flag poles would this mean that it is okay to have a feather flag that says barber shop for example the feather flags being those things that look like a feather
they're about 12 to 12T tall stick in the ground Barber Shop restaurant things like that I was previously given to understand that those were not allowed within the city limits um but this does not seem to indicate that
so the part uh that part is crossed out again people buy them from me they say hey I want a feather flag that says barber shop or whatever and if they're in in the city of Port Richie I have recommended in the past that they not waste their money on it because they're probably going to be told they have to
take it down so this looks like they're allowed yeah I don't see so I when I when I just read that Flags I think American flag something similar in shape and size right doesn't
say that but their definition section for this um code provision does not define flag but that is something that we need to discuss to make that decision do you when we say flag do we mean what we think it as a traditional American flag and you sometimes see sports teams
on that size flag or something larger or something that is to advertise a business again you know and again I'm not trying to speak out of turn here but I would hope that the goal is to have a healthy community in which in which businesses can Thrive and so if they
can't advertise themselves they they fail and so this is why people hire somebody to stand out there with this spin or to hold a flag that says computers you know or a sign that says computers or restaurant is to try to stay in business which increases your
tax our tax our tax base as a community but if the businesses fail because they can't advertise then then that doesn't help anybody so if they're allowed to have these flags if they're allowed to have the sign spinners I think my personal opinion of course I'm in the sign business but my personal opinion is
that this helps the community to have stronger businesses because people know they exist particularly you take a business that's 50 ft off the street yeah they've got a sign on their building but people don't know they're there if they don't happen to turn their head now is there a possibility that
somebody could be distracted by that and cause an accident yeah I suppose that possibility exists but most of the time if you can get them to look up from their phone and notice somebody standing there with a flag you've done a good thing so that's I think other flags
originally had come to fact there was an issue with them people people placing them an easement which was causing an issue and them impeding visibility down the down the roadways that was one of the biggest issues because I use them in my real estate company I used to use them for open house signs open house
exactly yeah and so my team is using the city so in the city right yeah exactly so okay uh two more points I'm sorry if I'm taking too much time uh one is um 12120b
which talks about materials and says 12 it's on page 31 of my printout which I do got from your website I don't know if it's there or not but it says paper or cardboard signs are prohibited which is great but it says cloth or plastic fabric banners may
only be used for temporary signs there is a type of permanent sign that does use a flexible face the biggest example probably around here is Best Buy that sign which is like 20 ft long and 14t Tall or something like that
would be ridiculously heavy if it were acrylic so it's made of flexible it's made of a flexible face that stretched and adhered to in this case a A can I know that uh and I didn't make their sign but St Str just replaced their sign
their acrylic sign that kept blowing out every time there was a hurricane they replac theirs with a flexible face which is more likely to withstand strong winds than you know than an acrylic face so that may be something that people you know if you're not in the sign industry
you may not know that but I can see what you're saying a cloth or plastic fabric Banner may only be used for temporary signs but there are permanent signs that are made with a plastic or you know a stretched canvas uh face as it were so let me ask you a question then yeah you're in the sign business the
utilization of such materials when you draw a sign up for someone who's putting a permanent for instance correct you clearly identify how that is that media is used it's in a channel we screw it down etc etc ETA it would have
if I were if I were putting in a a a new sign like that then yes any any new sign I have to apply for a permit for I have to get engineering on and so that would be that would go through the engineer the engineer would you know but in the case of someone like Str Str whose face blew out and they said hey I want a sign
that's not going to blow out K do you have anything available you don't necessarily need a permit to replace a face in a broken out sign so I don't know that you would necessarily have to go through an engineer in order to to change that sign face to a different type I know that
it's there is a provision in here for you know repairs or uh changeable face faces on signs don't need a permit but it's not considered a temporary medium correct it's not a temporary medium in this case no it's a temporary medium that might be something that you might
want to think about cloth or P plastic fabric banners may only be used for temporary signs note this does not apply to professional installed flexible faces designed to be used as a permanent replacement for an acrylic something along that
line uh and then the only other question that I noticed in my perusal of this was the landscaping around Monument signs which is a great idea I like it's a perfect idea if it's in somebody's if it's in the front yard but what if it's in the middle of a parking lot and there's concrete all around it how would
you landscape around that so having that as a hard and fast rule that there must be lands I mean I guess you could put a a flower box you know something like that but if it's in a concrete in the middle of a concrete parking lot as some of these monuments
and pylons are I don't I'm not sure how you would landscape around it so that would be my that's my other question okay okay thank you that's all I have right now any questions for the gentleman while he's here thank
you anyone else in the public questions concerns comments I'm Chris Mayer um I am opening a carders ship at 8201 uh US Highway 19 and I support the city's goals for safety and Aesthetics and whatnot but I
have some concerns with terminology so in the ordinance it says that activated signs are to be banned but I I might have missed it but I didn't see where in the ordinance the definition of what an activated sign is is that a sign that lights up when a car drives by or is
that any modern digital sign I can answer your question co currently it's a different provision um the code that's part of the ordinance but in section 101-1 activated sign is defined as any sign which contains or uses elimination
any light lighting device are lights flash or alternate or change appearance of said sign or any part thereof automatically any sign which parts is part of its normal operation such as rotating signs shall be considered an activated
sign additionally a sign that depicts or contains copy which moves or appears to be moving emits audible sound vapor smoke odor particles or gases gaseous material or electric reader boards okay one I
mean got all that at once but that's what the definition is currently so it sounds like any digital sign is banned I believe so at this point I mean it's digital sence today with small business having the ability to have to represent your business well drive by traffic
brings a lot of business into us and digital signs is a very modern way to do that now a lot of the pot shops and things that have flashing lights can be very distracting but but we modern digital signs can display a static image and they can have photo cell sensors
that will dim down at night time so you can put that in ordinance and require that that way at night time you can still see it but it's not blindingly bright um you know they don't have to play movies they don't have to change you would just limit how often they can change maybe every 60 seconds so we're not dealing with the flashing thing
again that's a that's a distraction um but another distraction is signs that are too small or signs that are so sunf faded you can't read them because realistically in my experience and it's not scientific when you're driving down the road if you can't read a sign you're going to spend way more time looking at that one Than A nice bright clean
digital sign that you can read the words on in two seconds and you keep on driving um it's no different than driving down the highway and reading signs on the side of the road they um they take your eyes off the road for a second and you go right back so a static digital sign that changes once every 30 seconds or
every minute would be very beneficial to small business um last point I'll make is I moved down here in July and we've been coming down here for 10 years now but in July when I moved down here I went to get lunch one day and went to a barbecue spot you now I'm techsavvy I'm resourceful online so I'm looking at
Google and I'm finding you know let's look at the the best rated restaurants and I found this five star small mom and pop barbecue place um perfect festar rating 50 reviews went in there the only person working there is the owner so I'm like hey what's going on how's business going and he was shutting down he was in
Newport Richie he was shutting down because his sign out front was so small you couldn't see it I would have never seen it if I didn't dig and go to Google Maps and you know sort by best reviews first I would have never seen it and um and he wasn't driving any traffic to a
store or the that I decided to go to the only reason I found that gym and it was a very nice gym was because they had a little A-frame sign right on the side of the road which I don't think the other guy the barbecue shop was allowed to do so I don't know if he wasn't supposed to have that but that led me to that gym and now for the past eight or nine months I've been spending my money and
having membership with this guy's gy so we got to have good signage for small business and and there's ways to do it that don't affect the safety of the the drivers that are around that's all I got okay questions
do have you utilized said signage already for your yep yeah we have a a six or 7 Foot by 7 foot double-sided digital sign uh at one of our businesses in Winchester Virginia and um and yeah it's got the photo cell sensor so it'll dim down at night time and and it will
cycle through pictures but it's no flashing and I have it set up on that one to change every 20 or 30 seconds so it's it's it's the flashing stuff that really grabs your attention that PS you away was there any issues with the City you Conformity there they they actually
about six months before we got that sign just allowed that to be in there it was it was not allowed previously and they allowed it to be in there okay sir step the we step to the podium though so we can hear yeah because we're recording yeah anytime you talk you have
to come back up say your name yeah so we can keep you on the record and so everyone can hear you uh dell from Pasco signs again 6144 Ridge Road so up until June 2022 Pasco County did not allow those digital signs uh they just
reallowed them and uh we just installed our first one at walesby over uh walesby U clinic IE doctor over in Wesley Chapel um the way that this County's code is set up only 50% of the sign can
be digital it is set up so it cannot have flashing lights it is set up so as the gentleman said it has to DM night it has to be you know a certain number of foot candles whatever it is and um it cannot I mean it's like the Billboards you see the Billboards around all over
the county they display a static message they display it for 60 seconds then it switches to another static message they don't have any waving flags or any you know cars driving across the the screen um it's basically like a Jumbotron but
you don't have to use it that way and so I agree I I had noticed that about the activated signs I was going to ask and then I it slipped my mind so I'm glad that he brought it up um I personally feel I know that there are some in this in the city they USA Car Wash has one it's old it's outdated you know it's 20
years old uh the realtor realy across the street from there is Century 21 I think they've got an act they've got a a digital sign like that it's basically like having U the track letters except that you can change it by typing on a computer screen and you know rather than
going out there with a pole sliding the letters in and uh CH you know changing it once a week or whatever you can change it as often as the city's code would allow so I also agree that the activated signs is something that you want to consider
having get into the modern times here I would be I would not be opposed to reviewing passo County's ordinance if they changed theirs obviously um thoughts from the board we're talking about signs but we seem
to we seem to have some businesses that have window signs inside their business that move whether the lights are moving whether they're trailing whether they're flashing are we going
to count those under the same ordinance as we do with the exterior signs I don't I don't know what you're talking about specifically so I can't really common what that that would be we'd have to look at it and see what that looks like and that's something I
think short answer would should be Yes sounds like similar it's just indoors the key for this is and I'm going to clarify for the for the public too the key for this is to make it the reason we're sitting here doing this is because we need to understand need structures obviously right so your business up
North has utilized this service before and it's worked very well right obviously Pasco County sees a need for it and they've modified their ordinances as the gentleman has said from Pasco sign and that's those are the things we're interested in but also another
side of this is we need to the sign industry in general and poor the poor gentleman probably gonna hear me say this but the sign industry in general depending which city and which location you are and especially in Florida it's like the wild west M you can drive down us 19 and see everything known to man
and because of that fact it does get to be very convoluted very messy and else this is giving us the opportunity well actually more the responsibility to go ahead and modify our code anyway we need to hear from you guys to understand what's going to work best for you but at the same time more importantly it gives
the city Direction on how to enforce and more importantly work with the citizens to be able to get you the best to be able to get your business going on trust me I'm a real estate broker if I can't put a sign in front of a yard there's times people drive around a house three or four times before they even realize it's there right it's just little things like that that make a difference so and
I have many customers I don't want to sign in my yard okay well great I mean it's going to reduce the amount of people showing your house by 30% that really absolutely so it's just it there is there's need structures but at the same time by doing what we're doing I think it's very very important we do this because it gives the city Direction
and helps people in the in his industry as well as the building department and in enforcement as well for code enforcement to be able to have a clearly defined set of rules to work with so to answer your question most likely Ron yeah if it's something that's that he's
trying to get this sign approved and we agree that this is the way it has to be 60 seconds a certain Candle hours or whatever quick handle light numbers whatever it is and all those things and we have that clue defined it's not fair for you to drive down Ridge Road and like we said before a a pot shop or
whatever you call it has flashing lights that's that's not what the code reads so yes we need to be able to give that information to code enforcement so that they can go ahead and make the proper changes so that you didn't step up here and waste your time so yeah I think we definitely need to review that I'm open
to it if if it's something county has looked into absolutely so well do we need a definition of what a sign is the only thing I'm pointing up there's a as you mentioned a pot shop okay
that it's not as sign but the windows are lined with flashing lights that go around and change colors in a movement is that a definition of a sign or can they say oh no that's not a sign because
we're not saying anything with it we're just using the lights to draw attention sign would be a message unless they unless they went so far is to paint on the window that they've got the lights going around now it is a sign right so definitions are very that's
it's kind of a convoluted mess so um but you're right if it's just lights that are flashing then at that point it becomes is it a code issue where the lights are they're too bright or they're flashing incorrectly and this and they're causing an issue for for for traffic movements and all that so then of course that's gon to be a that's a
DFT issue we're take that look we'll figure it out and figure out if it f somewhere else yes is 60 seconds is that a reasonable time I would like 30 I I think 30 is reasonable right right and I'll find
I'll find what Pasco County has drafted um and bring that back to you guys as well I couldn't find anything when I look really quick but yeah be curious to see what penal is doing too because I know they they're really on their signs okay the only other thing I had a
question on sure in the ordinance it says that any sign that imposes a glare on a driver is banned so I mean a glare to me is any light so is that saying that we can't have any lit signs like we have to block the sign from the street
if it's lit when cars are driving by at night time you remember other situation I don't I don't remember I put notes down but I didn't put the section numbers but it it it restricts glares to drivers unless you have some sort of
barrier blocking the sign for the drivers but what's the whole point of having the sign well I'm going to ask the gentleman from the from the Sign Company then is from glare would that perspective be something is that also a medium issue so you can't have something that has Chrome
on it so it reflects causes an issue uh again Dell from Pasco signs I did notice that in here I took from that and I I'm I I didn't mark it so I don't know where to look for it I took from that that it would mean that you wouldn't have any light that would hit somebody in the eye they driving by like a spotlight
pointing at the road to get your attention but I reflect this reflect the sun um yeah I guess a chrome chrome situation like that would also be but I took from it like there's a like you
said pot shots pop pot shops that have the the green lights or whatever flashing around them lots of them will also have you know open open open open you know they're they're like they're like uh basically flaunting you know I know it says something in here about
signs that are not visible from the street don't don't count like you can have an obviously like the City Port Richie emblem on your back wall here not visible from the street don't need a permit for that that's that makes perfect sense to me but if somebody's going to have a flashing light mounted
inside the glass so it's an inside sign but it points towards the street and flashes lights at the street to me that should be something that should be looked at as as being an an an outside sign really so I think I found the the language it's um under 121-3
A7 these are signs that are specifically prohibited it say any sign which has has unshielded illuminated devices that produce glare so specifically unshielded illuminated devices that produce glare so that would be something shooting a beam of light directly into
as he was saying a lit sign in general is okay just a lit sign cars can see it driving by well might be depending on what you decide to do right yeah right right but that yeah that doesn't mean any any like
just unshielded illuminated devices that produce it GL so I imagine something just with a big light shooting out that's what that's trying to capture okay any other questions comments yes ma'am please
hi Danielle Merkel 5 614 Queener Avenue there's in what section is this section 1213 signs specifically prohibited and it's mentioned a couple of other times
throughout but sign window signs which cover more than 25% of the total window surfaces so we sit on Grand and Queener we have an open sign in one of our Windows facing grand and one facing Queener we have very tiny Windows the
signs are about 2T by 2 ft each they take up more than a quarter at 25% of our windows I mean that's that's an issue because our Windows aren't that big but they're just regular open signs you can't get smaller um electric open
Signs Now these are open signs that are like an illuminated open sign that's sitting yeah it just it you know they're the little LED lights that when you turn it on it says open okay and I mean is that a problem my my
partner's worried about that sure um we've had this discussion before regarding the 25% role so the the key with the 25 because there's a lot of people that are utilizing window signs as far as painting is a big one and then of course a new thing and the gentleman
will tell you from P sign is window perf window perf is also a very big one a lot of window so and they print on 50% of the medium the other medium you can see through it um that doesn't qualify anymore unfortunately the 50% because of the 25 I think the key with something like
you're seeing saying is how much square inch or feet does it take up of that sign you're talking about in conjunction to the actual window so solid like this they have space they else I think it's it's GNA one those questions it's just going a matter of measurements from that standpoint and
also I think what does the board think a lot of these are it's subject to interpretation by the building department too right so that's the that's the key your definitions help them with inter our definitions are designed to help them but everything can be done on a case-by Case basis as well
the city is not designed and what we do is we just Council we give recommendations to council Council makes decisions based off of what we believe and what they believe as well they a good Council will go ahead and they'll do the research that we do and verify that
the recommendations we made for our citizens is something that they they they make they make ordinances accordingly we don't make ordinances here but ideally everything is sub to I mean we do have other boards is a
board of adjustment for a reason right there's variances for a reason so if your windows are literally a foot by foot you have get your signs in there departments there's there's other avenues that you can go through and this ideally is by modifying this gives them
a form right there's a there's a way to work through that process I'd be curious to see what your your site looks like in comparison to that um how I mean bu the window is what building what building is
it it's um 5614 Queener Avenue it's right it's like caddy corner to naughty or oh okay okay I'll cross there all right um go ahead total window is you talking about a single window or that total window of the whole building no it's the it's the
physical window so one single window go ahead you're sir please again del pasco signs it actually says the aggregate when the agregate so that means think think of aggregate Stone I mean it means all of the windows
together so in my view what I read about I Googled it to see what aggregate meant and it I mean if you had four Windows you could cover one of them completely the other three that would be 25% of the aggregate window space I know that I know that some of my customers have been
told hey You' got to take that stuff off your window because it covers more than 25% and so we did we we followed what I thought was but then when I was reading this yesterday I went wait it says aggregate if it's aggregate is aggregate well curious we should look see what Pasco says and one more thing on that
while we're talking yeah I've had this discussion with some people before at the County and and here there's no regulation that says you have to have any windows on your business at all so if you don't have to have a window then why can't you cover that window you know what I mean like if
somebody's in a warehouse and all they've got is a steel door and no windows that's okay but if you have a window you're not allowed to cover more than 25% of it I'm I'm not following the logic there um so if the idea is you can't logic in
the same sentence I've been in this business a long time I've seen a lot of things over the last 40 which is why we're glad you're here 45 years oh my goodness I'm older than I thought um uh yeah so if if if you know again if
you don't have to have a window then why can't you cover at least 50% of the window or if not 75% of the ites right now and this and this is not new proposed language that's the way it treats currently in your code um so look at what Pasco does too but I'll
also point out just add more to the conversation that um your code defines a window sign as a displayed on a temporary basis for not more than four weeks which is not what this is envisioning you're envisioning I think a permanent correct thing so we need to address the definition also if this is
something we're interested in allowing okay all right that's a little F thought you have you have more than one I can see it yes okay go ahead um the other one was about temporary signs yes ma'am so we have an A-frame um thing that you can replace
the letters and we got code enforcement telling us to take it away so I think part of it was I was out of town at the time and my partner had put it at the edge of our property which
is actually part of the city and I think that was part of the problem but my question is if we put it we have to figure out we have to go to City Planning and figure out where our line is if we put it on our own property in our grass in front of our building are we allowed to have that
A-frame for our specials for the day so Sandwich Board signs correct is what we're talking about a yeah okay I don't know that I was just I don't know much about signs but it wasn't all that clear with the temporary signs signs but they do have to be in the right location so
that may have been the problem with that um and there is um information in the code and of course I'm sure the building department would be happy to help too explain um the setback and the right away and what where you can put know it can't impede traffic or like if on the corner they have to be able to see
everything I've read all that in there but I was just wondering about the so we can have an A-frame as long as it's on our property it says sandwich sandwich sign so that's what we're talking about um so as far as exempt is concerned on page 21 we have a section there where it
says number eight one temporary sign may be dis displayed per Street fundage subject to the following restrictions of course there's a list of restrictions there too so is that would be I think what she's talking about yes it used to say not eliminated real estate we took that part out yeah yeah you definitely have a temporary
sign it has to be in the right location um have to be taken in every night because County we had to take I I don't know that I would imagine so be more of a that'd be a building apartment question but I think if no
actually you know what it wouldn't be because it's not fair to do that to them so it would be something we would want to clarify when we're modifying the ordinance so I would personally say yes just because we live in a volatile weather area you don't want to leave a
temporary sign out all of a sudden we got a storm come out of nowhere and it's flying across into traffic so I would say yeah temporar have I feel like I read that you do but now I can't remember where I read it so make sure most restaurants many restaurants have
A-frame menus boards and of course they're classified as signs the way we're doing it but they they do advertise what somebody is offering as today's special or so they certainly
qualify as temporary signs is there a way to go ahead and add a a notation that if there weighted so they don't blow away they'll be allowed um I I
think the way it's the way it's actually the verbiage is currently it's already allowed as long as it's in the proper location so it doesn't have to say anything about being weighted and I think the the key part that Lor's worried about which I would agree with is we need to have time UPS attached to it does it have to go in at the end of
business for instance so it has to be nonilluminated so being out at night time doesn't do any good anyway so and it can't have any glare sir please put them on the board today you say non-illuminated non-illuminated can you have
a s like a one of those um solar lights in the ground lighting it sign itself is not an illuminated sign it's just illumination on it that's a great question that I don't know the answer to
we don't address that he's going to respond as well give this is in regard to the sandwich board signs the A-frame signs it it's on uh section one what 121 417 and what it says is in non-residential zoning districts one
sandwich signed per business establishment having a certificate of occupancy placed on the sidewalk no further than 5T from the main entrance door of the structure of the establishment now my problem with that is if you're 50 ft off the road they've got to already be in your they've
already be in your parking lot before they can even see the sign uh I know DNA smoke shop sh over here they had one and they were putting it out byward Road and they were told no You' got to have that so they moved it down and put it 3 ft from their front door I made the sign for them um and they you know they had
to move it and put it on their sidewalk well it doesn't do them any good in terms of you know smoke shop turn here because you're already in you're already in their parking lot before you can see it or as the gentleman said about the gym which may have been Lux works okay I made that too and he put it out by 19
when it was just a little A-frame sign that said Lux Works GM and with an arrow and um you know if if it was by 3T from his front door this gentleman would have never found that business um so having it feat from his front door does does
really doesn't do anybody any good I'm sure it wouldn't do this lady any good either because they're already in your parking lot by that point okay thank you so we maybe check that verbage on that too based on sidewalks in front of the establishment
say 5T from the main entrance yeah I mean I think that's because Salk going where she's at for instance I know her business is she's talking about it's quite a distance back yeah probably closer to 40 feet right yes
yeah yes ma'am okay and then on um 10111 I'm confused about what this is so on underneath number 11 there's a however signs which are printed upon a wall of a building shall not be subject
to the provisions of This Land Development code and it's crossed out and then number nine above it says artwork that does not constitute commercial advertising visible from a public area so we have
a so we have a mural to get around the permitting and everything cuz we don't own the building and it was ridiculously expensive sorry we called you um so we ended up having somebody paint the mural on our wall so I'm just
curious if that is going to be an issue because crossed out so the mural itself is it actually a Mur it's it it's our logo with our business name it's a it's a like a tiki
t a tiki hut with our name on it sounds like a sign there's been discussion and questions about that in the past and the gentleman who's actually a friend of mine who owns NH marketing around the corner from you um Nick has
it does vehicle wrap so there was discuss about putting a mirror on the side of his building gigantic logo well ours is just I think it was like a 12 by 8 spot in between the end of the building and a
window so it doesn't impede anything or it's not in the window and we got the permission from the owner to do it I don't know the answer that question and I know that's because I piece of commercial real estate downtown
and I know the City of Newport requires murals to be permitted and approved by the actual city council to be a put on be put on a building um I don't know what kind of guidance we have I know because I got cited by the
by code enforcement for EO that was there 20 years before I bought the building oh we had a sign that's been there over a year and a half when we bought our the business and just had changed the name but we were going by their BBA for a while and we got coded
for their sign that was over that was there over a year but it was a b it was a a banner so that's when we started looking at the codes I think M we're gon have to we're gon have to dig have a good answer for you but I'd
love to answer myself yeah because when we first did it over almost a year ago um the code it did it said said that it wasn't you know it wasn't part of that code it wouldn't matter so that's why we ended up doing it I was just wondering
okay that's all the questions I have thank you thank you any comments or question on our how much of her signic you there you go how much of your
mural constitutes the sign for your business versus I guess the artistic value of having a tiki hut drawn on the side of the building it's our logo we put our logo
on the building so what percentage of that art is your logo um well the it's toasty tea Hideway and that
is I have a business card it has yeah I tell you for the Chamber of Commerce we uh we were looking into doing the side of our building like a a very famous
Dutch mural so that is our logo and that painted that showed library books and of course the titles on each of the library books would have been sponsored by our local businesses you know like ferals air conditioning would
have this nice antique looking book and it would say ferals across the top which would constitute maybe 5% of the total image of just that book but it was a minuscule amount compared to the total
image of the wall okay are are we considering how much of a mural is Advertising based on the presence of the sign of the business or as you said you go down to
Newport Richie and they got murals on the sides of the buildings everywhere and very attractive and everybody loves them and uh does that really constitute advertising it definitely would be advertising because you're advertising
the business I mean in her example example yes yes sir please but I I don't think our code address is murals I don't think either and I know at new por the murals and new por those are not advertisements no again Dell Pasco signs sorry I hate to keep um taking all the
time here but the the City of Newport Richie my understanding of what you're talking about is exactly that that like if you have a camera shop you can't have a mural of a camera on the side of your business have a barber shop you can have a mural of a camera on the side of your business so if you have uh you know
because because it's now a sign if so I know there's that gentleman down there that paints all the buildings right US1 19 sign whatever um and again I don't know the guy I've only seen his I've only seen his work I've seen his stuff online but it to me if you take a
Veterinary Clinic and you paint cats all over the side of it and dogs and so forth now that's sign because you are now advertising what's in that building but if you painted ice cream cones all over it that' be great if it's a veterinarian's office wouldn't be great if it's an ice cream shop because now it became a sign because now you're
advertising what's inside the building so it's sort of a fine line there um you know painting a sign on a building is still painting a sign you still would be limited to the square footage and I don't know whether you need to pull a permit for that I that that I don't know but I'm just saying if you've got a 100
foot building and you put a 10-ft sign on it you're okay and whether it's painted directly on or whether you pay somebody like me to make you a sign and and uh and um uh you know illuminated electrical sign and and that that's you're still within your square footage
but uh you know you put a mural that is not related to your business on the side you know picture of Chasco Fiesta on the side of your building nobody's going to say anything because you're not you are not selling Chasco Fiesta you are you're you're that's not your retail establishment sorry thank you
you else sir hi my name is Dan Timmer on these sign things you got uh a temporary sign and a permanent sign as there's sizes to the permanent signs because we're coming
up on Hurricane Season again I used to own a pub in Clearwater right on a Mandalay and 60 years ago if you had a temporary sign that sign had to be moved inside the building at night when you closed it could only be put back out when you were
open okay a permanent sign fell under code enforcement and code enforcement determined the size of that sign and how much damage it could cause during a hurricane I built a building over here and I had to build it for 180 mph wind
loads under your rules so is there these permanent or these temporary signs if if they're really temporary they should be moved in and out of the businesses or it's considered a
permanent sign if it's a permanent sign then it should fall under a different ordinance and it should meet a code that you guys have to come up with so it's not a flying debris does that make sense we agree
with you 100% that's exactly what we that's exactly temporary and permanent and the permanent ones should have wind load factors in them and size y because nobody wants any of these big damn Billboards anymore anywhere right
because they just fall apart and they don't work thank you we agree with you that's for needs to be addressed and put in there absolutely the definition of of a temporary sign and more importantly when and where it has to be stashed
afterward after it's been utilized temporary me temporary correct anyone else back to the mural conversation I'm sorry just one quick second there is a definition of wall signs which reads to me like a mural it says a sign which is
painted on and then some other examples painted on a wall of a building with its facee the plane of the building thought or wall in which does not project more than 18 inches from such building I don't know I don't really understand what that means but is that mural that meaning murals or is
that meaning built on to something built on the physical structure yeah right like a a painting attached to a structure like another another object wow yeah that's what we currently defining we so we'll work on that too we need to work on that
definition okay sorry Sor thank you um Mike Low catches Waterfront Grill Port Richie Marina um specific to activated signs are we um are we just speaking about just with regards to the ordinances in general are we just speaking about the WD or we talking
about all Citywide changes it's a Citywide modification of the of the code right now as far as the Waterfront Overland district is concerned that's a different animal um ncy yep there so the the code what we're talking about would
be the definitions that apply everywhere then you need to go to your zoning different zoning districts and that may give you um me change some things and I think yours does yeah I believe the I think the W is different okay POS something do
another question are there not activated signs currently within the city limits operating there are there might be yeah yeah is one there are quite a few I think catches is one well it's no longer working it wasn't
working you tell your brother to fix that filed for our permit we came and picked up our permit there was a note with an asterisk that said no LED lights right so our our signed guy said you know with
pause he said hey guys I don't I don't know what this means I don't know what we should do here but obviously I'm you know in support of activated signs because we definitely see the benefit and and the need for them um as this gentleman had pointed out there are many municipalities across the country that
that allow them uh they know how to regulate they know how to to manage them properly um you know we look at it like you know we have Frontage on us9 where we are we're lucky enough to have that but we're not allowed to have an activated sign now right and so we feel as though we're we're disadvantaged as
compared to you know the other businesses on us9 that are allowed to have them um we just want a fighting chance we just want to be able to to lure people in you know to to tell our our story and have our message on a on an activated sign um you know it could
be something as as as simple as as we're talking 30 seconds 60 seconds regulation obviously the the the light intensity and the levels but you know even if the city wanted some messages to be put out there on our sign we could certainly do that and and and help the city with with
regards to Communications and and putting a message out but but no seriously we we really feel as though the activated signs they can be done properly um we don't feel as though being in the Waterfront overlay District we should be kind of handcuffed right so
Corr you're correct in the in the Waterfront overlay District right now there is a um you cannot have neon electric Message Board variable lighting system or other illuminated signs are prohibited except where a variance has been granted go to the you know have to
right Board of adjustment and work work on that that's something we want to discuss it can be discussed but that's a different provision from this ordinance it would be another ordinance try to understand why we're limiting
the use of LED as a light since it uses less power it's more conservative uh it's easier to work with it has a longer life right than a regular incandescent bulb or a fluorescent bulb does it's certainly
safer to handle and yet we're sitting back saying you Mike can't put an LED light in his side under what what guys would that even make sense your code 2005 yeah but the code was built in
194 we we we don't want to have specific discussions with people that are trying to discuss with the city remedies we're trying to discuss the overall idea I mean that's definitely something we can all we can talk about in a separate environment but I but I I do know that that that sign's been there for a long
time that particular on us right I wasn't even it wasn't working anymore um yeah the motherboard went down and so it's old technology right and so the only suitable Replacements would be a full LED sign because they just don't make the old technology anymore can't find a motherboard for it we can't we
can't get it repaired so um yeah so that's the only that's the only solution for a sign like that is is now led and so to to you know Ronald's Point yeah I mean it's that's a better technology use a lot less you know energy produces less
heat yeah I mean environmentally it's safer we don't have any not just gases like we do have right with some of the other bulbs and yet we're restricting what should be an advancement and working backwards instead of forwards on what we're doing I think the key is going to be for us to
get our hands on P County side ordinates regarding that that's going to be a big part of it for us yeah um Team especially since they just changed as recently as they did 22 and then see what else what pelis county has to I have not looked at at the city of Port
Richie's sign code lately but uh is there anything in there on activated signs for the for those that have them on 19 is it are you talking about the red sign on 19 above the bridge that one like Culver has one I know Walgreens I'm
talking about the one that's not working is that the one that's right above the bridge oh yes correct yeah the big red one yep yeah and when we have as much an investment in our Waterfront District they are in a completely different environment than we have with
the general city because they're having to attract a waterbor community as well and you've got boats coming in that have to be able to recognize where it is see it it's almost impossible as as as Matt
said over there for us to not make that a specific area that should have real consideration because we're trying to attract everybody to the Waterfront District bring your boat boat in go to his lovely restaurant uh go to Hooters
or wherever when Hooters reopens and you're restricting him because we're not allowing those businesses to thrive in a manner they need to that just doesn't seem fair to answer your question Mike the orance did
specifically say no activ signs So within 2005 absolutely it's it's been there whether or not we've enforced it apparently we have not I mean business is as new as Culver have gone in so right um like I said I'd be very interested to see what pass count allows
try to get us in line with that because that's kind of key Ronald's point it says that any sign on any river is prohibited and I don't what does that
mean exactly if the whole business is on the river is it just a sign facing the river that's physically on the river that's a that's I remember I remember we wrote all that for the overl district that was a an interesting one at Best thank you thank you no I agree we
we need to definitely look at that Lor's brought a good point we need to review that anyone else okay board questions concerns I'm assuming most of you have read through this I've read through it multiple times I've looked at it for the
last 20 years or so thing I would like to say is I'd really like us to look into the factor of what Mr low brought up the use of LED lighting which is now preeminent in the whole world of
what we're doing and yet our code is so Antiquated it's restricting it I just that's I think that needs to be adjusted is that prohibited now LED light I don't see the word LED in here anywhere can't have anything any
activated light which would the definition would include it doesn't say the word LED but illumination light device lights activ activated is just talking about motion or flashing something right then say
LED lot of this there's no no you can't have it right now if we want it that's something we can adjust it right now led it on itself is not no you can't it's not where it say that where does it say LED
illumination of any light that's not be led right that's light LEDs are lights the lights I know I don't know scientifically how they work but they lights come on up my sign well a light turned off wouldn't my sign expert for the day
Pasco signs sorry um so there's a couple different types of LED signs obviously right so there's the electronic Message Board which is what we're talking about was almost like a big TV set or or a um Jumbotron but the other thing is I mean these may be fluorescent but these may
be LEDs that just look like f fluorescent and so lots of times we get calls from people and they say hey my sign's not lighting and lots of times I will go out and I'll take the fluoresence out and I'll put LEDs in in their place and then we put the plexiglass back in and it looks just like a fluorescent sign from the outside
I do not think that there's anything PR preventing using LEDs in that format I think the LEDs that uh catches may have been told that they can't do is an activated sign which would be like a Jumbotron type situation and
again why because you know if you if you stop to think about the even what the gentleman said about environment regardless of whether that's a big concern for you or not when you take a plexiglass sign and you put track letters on it that say you
know special of the day Catch of the Day is is you know grouper for $9.99 or 19.99 or $ 39.99 that's great $59.99 um if you're lucky if you're lucky so that's all well and good but
those ple those plastic letters are going to end up in the dump at some point whereas LEDs you in theory should be able to use them for the next 15 20 years and just keep changing the message without ever having to end up with that stuff breaking in in signs and and storms and ending up in the trash so
there is some legitimacy to having the digital moving into the digital world and probably one of these days into the AI World which that's another story yeah coms to the board questions you have a lot
okay I mean I personally am very passionate about the sign issue myself I've stood in I've stood right where you are and gone to city council and I got fined for a real estate sign that was 4 by8 for for a business or for a a
subdivision I was doing off of limestone and got code enforcement sent me all sorts of letters was $500 a day and I came before city council it's probably 15 years ago and brought 34 signs that were that were not compliant the city and said how can you make me do mine
when you haven't done any of these other ones why because you know that you when code enforcement shows up at my house and says hey Sean can you move your boat I move my boat so I'm compliant so you get you got to win and I had that very same conversation so I understand where the concerns are I also agree that the
we know that this uh ordinance is very very dated 20 years in anything with technology is a lifetime so like the gentleman said activated signs we will definitely look into that I agree they can be done Tastefully and
they can send a message catches has used that one for hundred years um I didn't know it's even down let's put it that way um and I can't say you how many times I've driven by the Culver son my wife says pull over they have this flavor ice cream today so it they're they work right so and they can be done
Tastefully uh it's important for us to be moving forward correctly yeah but we have had a problem with code enforcement absolutely very selective I opened up the Chamber of Commerce I put the same sign up that you have surrounding this
entire city hall material with holes in it to allow the light in where the signed portion itself was less than 20% and the rest was to help stop sunshine and heat
coming through I got a $1,000 fine uh told I had to be taking my sign I walked right in and showed 35 signs surrounding the city hall and the question when we asked him and I went to the mayor and the city manager saying why is this
selective well that's just the way the zoning the city manager looked at it you know just wasn't wasn't uh anything but selective enforcement well and the good news is by spending the time we spend doing these workshops in particular
especially when there's not a vote there's no pressure to have a vote we can have conversations open conversations with the citizens is to alleviate those kind of situations in the future because we want it to be fair for everybody yeah so um and I'm a big fan of small business small business
runs America so it runs this town every little I go to would rather go to a to a local restaurant than a chain restaurant any day of the week just to support my neighbors so that's key right um I don't know there's I'll go around
the room Matt questions concerns anything you wanty to look on my question it relates to Mike's business is to catch a sign is on 19 so do that fall under different state requirements because it's on 19 versus like a nor
regular Port Richie roog with be different talk about a spec I we shouldn't a specific instance to answer your question though so we know that's not and would it be guines there's not a lot of signage in the city of por the joys of being the city of por is we're
four miles square right so most of the signs are either on Ridge Road or US 19 or a few come off different places so to answer that question it's it has no bear so the idea is to make sure that it's fair across the board whether you're whether you're naughty or or your
catches or your Hooters it doesn't make a difference it should be fair across the board yeah that's good that's that's what I think okay so good yeah any I'd like to ask about vehicle signs what does that mean so we we need clarification on vehicle sence and that
was a question that was brought for us last time um I know from a personal standpoint it matters to me I have a WRA vehicle in the city so um does that qualifies as a vehicle sign do I need to go peel the wrap off my jeep that would be we don't really have any
clarification on what that is and if it's going to be something that said citizens don't want to deal with usually it's the the vehicle has to be running because a lot of people are buying like vehicles and just setting them out on the street I knew Newport Richie had
a problem before where they were doing same thing by old ratty vehicle especially trucks painted a bright yellow or blue or whatever color was and put a fiscal sign in the back of it and call it a temporary sign same thing the
gentleman said before that's not a temporary sign that's a that's a monument sign that you put wheels on that's a mobile sign right so and and they're not when comes flying by it's not anchored correctly he wouldn't sign his business on that so I think we need
clarification on vehicle signs but Lord is right we have we have different definition that we will look at and make sure it captures what you want it to capture but I think it's kind of what you both just said if it's sitting there no you're using it it looks like it might be okay but we'll make sure okay
all right sir let me say one more thing just state your name again Dan Tim again state your name for the record again one more time Dan Timmer thanks Dan okay I have business here 60 years ago in Clearwater it came down to a thing about
the First Amendment and what it skirted to maybe you ought to look I heard it come out about the Antiquated stuff that we have here in Port Richie maybe you ought to look at a bigger city how they looked at it okay and what it really came down to was the definition of the
word sign what the hell is a sign and that's you know just because somebody prints something and puts it out doesn't make it a sign and that's what it came down to because they were skirting on lawsuits
like he said he got a $1,000 fine and there's 30 five of his neighbors got the same damn thing and they got away with it they didn't get fined so that's a discrimination so you know before you start enforcing it you better figure out
what a sign is to begin with and I'm it sounds silly no no it's not silly it's not silly at all to us what we're doing attorney she'll tell you it's not silly to her not silly all I love definitions what is a sign you know if
Jesus comes tomorrow is that a sign right that's a trick question i' call it the end myself we do have a definition so she definition first first of all no yeah I was we we can discuss it next time to make sure it incorporates everything you
want for the definition for sign I've marked it maybe it's curiosity more anything what's a snip sign uh we had the question about the snip sign again and I did it last time I I remember being snip sign is a sign made of any
material this is what our code says now okay SN snip sign means a sign made of any material which such sign is tacked nailed posted glued or otherwise attached to any pole tree or other natural feature fence fence post bench
Stakes other side or other similar objects located on public or private property the term snip snip sign does not include real estate real estate signs warning signs or open house signs that's how we Define it so attached to a telephone po like New York
C they slap them on the thing and they stick them up there like call this number for lawn sign then I think I know about a pole sign so you're just talking about you don't want a sign on top of a poll yeah so the it turn from from a pole into a
monument probably defined too but you can explain it Pasco signs again uh so a pole sign typically a pylon sign would be like the Gul View Square Mall it's got couple of legs looks like almost like a lollipop right it's got a a sign at the top with a with a pole uh a
monument sign I liken to being like a tombstone goes all the way to the ground so that'll it could still have two legs inside it but it's usually wrapped or or filled in with aluminum or um you know you wouldn't see the poles they wouldn't
be visible so a pole sign would be like I again a lollipop so you got to think of the old Texico sign right a circle with a pole um that would be a pole sign but a monument sign is and that's what the county has now gone to you you can't you're you're not going to see any more
big pole signs done in the county they're all going to be Monument signs maximum 11 ft uh for up to 600 if you got 600 ft of Frontage your maximum is going to be 11 ft tall if you've got more than 600 ft you might be able to combine two of them and get 15 ft tall so you're going to see you'll seen
they're coming down at all all the Walmarts all the publs all of them they're coming down and becoming Monument signs instead of pylons or pole signs that help is there size or something this the
square footage is based on usually you know you're allowed up to 100 well again I mean the pole itself like if it's a really big pole is that a monument uh no it still would be a pole sign yeah in other words you're saying if it was a like a billboard sign with a 4- foot
steel pole yeah they still would consider that a pole sign a monument sign's going to look more like a tombstone it's going to come all the way to the ground I can show you pictures afterwards if you want if you want to see some examples um but uh understand I'm just more worried about just the
definitions yeah it does not appear to be defined in here and think we're saying please use that instead of whole sign so we need to make sure that's defined so that's a good point so we'll get some get a definition from for the next time we talk about I know there's entire
cities I don't know how many are in Florida now there are entire cities in Texas where they've gone through and they've taken all poll signs out and G just the monument signs so and I know there's some of the new newer areas in Florida as they're building out and especially in South Florida they have a lot they're all Monument signs too now
because they don't they're not as like over correct which is kind of key considering we like hurricanes yeah no we don't want they like us they like us L um just I everything that we said I mean I I I would like to see us be able
to have digital and activated signs with LED lights and um Vehicles signs they have to be able to be moved not just sitting on the street it's and
safe yeah that's it BR I agree that we just need a better definition of what a definition is we're all kind of guessing at what a definition is and you know I would
rather see it as CS Spot Run here well that's we do we have a lot of definition we have to make sure we like them yeah because attorneys can write things in legal ease that make it a little tougher for those of us in the general public to understand what keep
asking I need I need to feel needed well that's what we'll talk about these definitions when we when you guys make your decisions and recommendations we can modify the language to that you understand it so so the public will understand it absolutely so
realistically what are we looking as far as and that's a question between you and Miss Ashley as far as right reviewing this is that for our May the the the standing meeting yes it's between this meeting and the one you're not gonna
have enough time for of course try to make everything as streamlined as possible for you guys to make a decision so we'll be at our main meeting which is we canel the correct yeah May 13th is
the next meeting 1 at 1:00 okay so so I'll bring back can hear that May 13th at 1M will be our that's our standard meeting we'll have that's our normal meeting we have and we will be addressing the changes that are brought forth and at that time there may be a
motion to make a recommendation to council to review it so so but we appreciate everybody showing up and giving us your feedback that's been key for us um yes sir please say one more absolutely I'm going to give her some more
work I had a business in City of Newport Richie I had a traffic sign okay on the side of my building okay and it when I was open it was on when I was closed it was off the City of Newport Richie changed their
sign ordinances okay because my sign was up before they changed their ordinances I was grandfathered in and they couldn't make me take it down right we have that we have provision you're GNA run into Grandfather friend absolutely anytime we
change your code we have that possibility yeah I don't look him as as a problem grandfathering is a very real thing that's that's that's just fair so we're talking about as things change and modify we need a we need a clearly
defined set of rules to be able to move forward so when they go see Dale and say I need a new sign he knows what the rules are in the city of poor Richie to be able to give that so if Mike says you know what I want to be able to put specials on for catches and now your ordinance has changed great I can order
that sign same as the gentleman here for his carbons so we just want to make sure but yeah grandfathering is very real here so we don't we try we I know the city's done very very it's been difficult at times but it's very fair so for the most part and it will continue
to be or you'll be or I'll be sitting out there complaining just like you are so all right do I have any other business we need to T to miss Nancy no I know in that case I'll entertain any other motions second second all in favor