for my you can apply when this first app but you have to be already registered for at least registered for driving school. So I immediately signed up for driving
school this week Thursday and Friday. So I'm already signed up for school. I've already paid for it. >> If I miss it I lose my money and blah blah. Anyway, Marty signed up for that for grading school, but
check my license every day. I No, I call my daughter. He goes, "Yeah, it says that you're good to go." He did know. He sent me his secretary or she she sent me a form. He goes, "Fill this out." It was to apply for a class, I think. He go
send it out and we'll just hold on to that. There's something instructor in the class. >> Should I ask him >> or not ask? >> I know you're already paying for it.
>> Worst can tell you he doesn't know. >> Community board meeting Tuesday, September 9th, 2025. Stand for the pledge. Please wait for me to startled >> to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it
stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Cler have roll please. >> Chairman John Eric Cooper here. >> Vice Chairman Chris Mayer >> here. Member Robert Hubard >> here.
>> Member Lisa Burke >> here. >> Member Christine Sullivan >> here. >> City attorney Nancy Meyer >> here. >> City Manager Andrew Butterfield >> here. Thank you. Okay. First up, we get a set of minutes to approve. So, can I get a motion for the August 12th, 2025 CRA meeting minutes?
>> I approve August 12th CRA minutes. >> Okay. Is there a second? >> Second. >> Favor signify by saying I. >> I oppose. Motion carries. >> Uh, next up, comments from the general public. I have no signups. By show hands like speak, come on up.
>> So, so I think um address >> for the record. >> Oh, sorry. Uh Devon Aaron, 5414 Bay Boulevard. Um I uh I think that we got a golden opportunity. We've we've sat on our hands with a lot of the CRA money. We got $5.3 million. We can utilize that
money, really build something great. And I think if we shepherd it really well, we'd have a really good chance at actually renewing our CRA in six months and change. That's really like the big deal that everybody kind of misses is we've had the CRA and we fund it. We've we've fumbled it and stuff like that.
Whether it's like the the dredge lot, which we weren't even really supposed to do, or paying salaries, which we definitely weren't supposed to do. Um, we really want to make sure that we can clean up our act and put this towards something that the county and that the state loves so that we can continue our
our CRA because it really is going to um go away. And if you think about it, you know, we get um I think it's like 1 I know everybody, you know, kind of chimes in. I think it's like 1 >> six one point that's a good amount of money. $1.6 million a year, but we got
5.3 um right now in the coffers. If we got six more years of that, you know, it's really like almost like a third of our of our whole CRA we have even in entirety. And the CRA started in 2002. So, this is really where it's going to pay off is like from now because this is
where we get our dividends because all the gains and incremental financing scheme of of the CRA, that's when we get our our main, you know, value out of it. Um, so I think we need to, you know, probably stay away from these, you know, studies that just waste all of our
money. They really are such a waste. I mean, these these these consultant firms are like the biggest joke and the biggest, you know, waste of time and money in the whole universe and why nothing gets done. If we could come together on the council, come up with an idea that everybody sort of agrees on,
we could really do something great. And I think that with this council, we really got a good shot at that. And um and I and I I pray that we we do the right thing with the money. Thank you. >> Thanks, D. Uh we have nobody else in the in the audience, so I'll bring it back to council. Um next up is comments from
the city manager. Pass it over to Mr. Butterfield for his comments. >> Yes, sir. I've said several times we uh we've for various reasons the there's CRA money has been uh not stockpiled, but uh there's a couple years worth in there. And so I think we're at the right
moment where we have needs and resources and uh looking for a consensus on how to how to spend that. Um, I think the only official business, the only thing on the official agenda tonight was setting the dates for future CRA meetings for the next year, but I
know Councilman Hover had some business we're going to move from council over to here. So, I look forward to hearing that. We can talk about if uh land acquisition is part of this. believe I've got a list of uh of possibilities,
ways to uh do things that I believe will be proper uses of the CRA and and help the city. So, looking forward to the discussion. >> Sure. Um, okay. Next up is Councilman board. Obviously, I think we've got a lot of stuff comments from the board.
So, if you guys wouldn't mind if we could move that to after old business, we'll go ahead and finish up the CRA stuff and then and spend some time in that as opposed to doing that before and have to come back and do the man it's very easy stuff to get through. Is it is there any objections to do that? Do any
motion as consensus? Okay. >> Yes. So, we'll move comments from the board to after business like we did on the counseling. So, that being said, moving on agenda, board business item number two, discussion to schedule and advertise upcoming quarterly CRA meeting minutes. I'll pass that to Mr. better field for induction.
>> Yes, sir. Uh if this current cycle is okay with everybody, we could just continue to do it on the uh uh second Tuesday in conjunction. The only thing I might offer is uh I got a piece of advice that normally it would it would
be good for CRA to proceed city council. So, we could advertise to start CRA at 5 or 5:30 and then go into city council next, but not hard over on that. that there's there's uh there's there was some discussion from the staff that
might be worth discussing >> to to put the CR meeting first. >> Yes, sir. Yeah. >> What's your all thoughts on that? >> I'm fine with that. >> You say start 5:30. >> I think that's fine. >> Is there any reason we couldn't put the CR in front of the council meeting?
>> No. long as the uh there's statutory requirements that we have to have actions taken after 5:30 at the uh council meeting, but we'd still be good for that. CRA if there's actions, I guess, right? Yep. >> So, >> so that just to get us started on that and hopefully we would be done by six or
you know >> if if it went quick, we can't start the city council meeting till 6 when it's advertised. Um but and if but if the CRA meeting went long, it's okay to start the city council meeting afterwards. Right, Ashley? Please opine. I value your input on this. >> That's correct. Yes, you you guys can
hold a CRA meeting before, that's no problem. And it it's beneficial to have CRA business that could bleed into council and get it all done in one night. But if you guys finish your CRA meeting before 6, we cannot start the council meeting till 6 o'clock. So, there will be a little bit of a holdover
with that. Um, and I do want to preface also, I talked to the city manager. If we have um, people coming in to speak for council meetings, we just need to be cognizant of that. When we have people, we try to make sure that they're first of business for council. But I'm all for putting CRA first. Just a matter of
council can be here earlier. >> Staff pointed out that things as you said, Ashley, CRA meaning might move business to the council. So instead of waiting a couple of weeks or a month, you could go right into
>> two birds with one stone. Yeah. >> So >> So that's my recommendation. I think it's again it's not a got to do, but it might be worth trying and see if we find >> Yeah. No, the the only the only issue is if it was going to be a long CRA meeting and we know about it from an agenda
perspective, we might want to um >> roll it to after is because people are going to be coming to the council meeting. um anyone wouldn't have to want to wait. Obviously, >> if we're anticipating a long agenda, I suppose we could flip. As long as we realize before advertising, >> it would just need some coordination
when we're working together with the agenda. We if we feel like it's going to be long, it's if it's going to be a very extensive discussion item for CRA, we scale back counsel or depending I mean, it's just just a a balancing act with
those. It is beneficial to hold CRA before because then you guys aren't waiting for approving something for CRA and then having to wait two more weeks for it to come back for council approval. >> So Nancy, because we advertise these, we got to have these four and let's say we we schedule at 5:30
>> and we we come up on one and we know that it's going to be a long one. Is it okay since we already presed that to to change that? >> Well, you would have you need to make that decision before you advertise it. I mean, if you had to change and you find a way you could you can do what you probably could, but be very a very bad
idea to change it last minute like, oh, let's put this let's put the word I want to do at a different time. So, you want you want to know that when you advertise it. Um, >> and I think from CR perspective, we would know if something was going to be lengthy well advanced. >> And you could always, as you know, have your regular CRA meeting and if there was something bigger that needs more
time, call it a different meeting for that that topic. Not that you want to do that, but that's always >> Okay. So, is there any objections to is it is is your item number two does it state that start at 5:30 or is that something else we need to action?
>> No, that's just the dates. It's quantifying dates. >> Just the dates. Okay. >> It says it says in here immediately following city council meeting. >> Correct. But I can I can change the verbiage of the ad. I do have to notice in the newspaper. So the verbiage of the ad can be that they will be before
council. I'll make sure that it's approved before sending it out. >> So if I can get a motion to approve the upcoming quarterly CRA dates with the the change of moving them before council starting at 5:30. >> Okay. I got a motion. Is there a second? >> I'll second it.
>> I'm sorry. >> I give it to Christine. Second. Okay. Any further discussion? Any public comment? Seeing no put to vote. All in favor signify by saying I. >> I. I >> I >> opposed. Motion carries. >> And just for clarification, this is all
CRA meetings because these are the ones that we're required to hold. We do hold more throughout the year. So, this will be every CRA meeting. >> Yeah. I think moving forward. Okay. Just wanted to make sure. >> We can we hold another CR meeting after a council meeting if we if we vote on it?
>> It would have to be noticed. >> Okay. >> But it's possible though if we had to. >> It's possible. Yes. But it would you can't you can't have a CRA meeting and then go into council and say well I want to talk more about the CRA item. It has to be noticed and there's
>> let me ask you this. If let's say we did start at 5:30 >> by consensus we we decide to do that and let's say we we do get rolling at CRA could we could we gave out and suspend that meeting go into the council and
then pick back up CRA meeting after that break? Never seen that done in my life, but I'm somebody could do it. But that mean be serious. There were times when you were in a in a um that would just be for No, I've never seen that done. I don't know that that would be proper to
do that. >> If you could check and see if that's just so we would know if that's something that we could do. >> And again, I think we know we talked about planning wise, you would probably know if it was something that would need more time, but um I can't think of a scenario that you would do that. But yeah, I'll I'll add it to I mean, you could take with you recess for a couple
hours and come back. >> Yeah, I guess >> you could. >> Okay. Okay. Next up is old business. Any old business for CRA? I know you mentioned about old business last time, Christine.
>> So, it's in there. >> C. >> Okay. Okay. With no uh no business, then we'll move on to >> property acquisition's on old business. >> It is on the bottom there. What what's specifically? What property? >> It doesn't say anything specifically.
So, >> uh, city manager and the council discussing properties acquire. Yeah. So, but, uh, we'll just we're going to cover it in the comments. So, since you plan. So, moving past old business, I'll go to uh, uh, board comments and I'll start
uh, with member Hubard. Okay. And I'm sharing the screen again. Um, gentlemen, we had talked, like I said, about sharing property swapping out here. >> Can I interrupt you for just a minute, please? >> Yep.
>> I don't have the look through seeing what you're pointing at on this screen. >> I'll describe it. >> Oh, he should be able to see it on his >> He can use his mouse to navigate. If if Bob wants to sit and navigate his mouse, then Chris will be able to see.
>> Oh, he can't you can see his screen. You just can't see what he's talking about. >> Oh, yeah. >> He moved his mouse. I can see it. >> Okay. See it now? >> Yeah. >> Thank you, Bob. >> No problem, Chris. Thanks for Chris. Hey, Chris is my buddy. You don't take
no Chris. So anyway, because of Chris's comments and the part that we talked about putting docks at Nick's Park and representing the city where we are, all of us up here, the gentleman owns this property, has people right now bidding on this property. And he's put a halt to
selling it um because he would rather sell to the city at this point because of what we're doing. And because of that, um, this property here is extremely valuable. Obviously, right in the middle of the water district, uh, but it could give us a
possibility of owning, I said like this property here. We already own this, but we could get this piece of property, this piece of property on 19 to where the city would would have all the property all the way to the water and we could get it within the budget we have
for property acquisition. I think that would be extremely valuable move and I'd like to hear a little bit. Andy, you've looked in this a little bit too, >> sir. Did you uh did you include the Thai restaurant? >> Yes.
>> Everything from 19 all this property here. Of course, this is the rideway. This piece of property, all of this we would own. Yes. >> So, we've already got Nick Park and then we've got just west of Thai restaurant, >> right? So, it would be a matter of two
purchases buying the Billy's property and the Tai restaurant, >> right? >> If we don't make a decision tonight, he'll just go ahead and sell it to someone else. >> That's the unfortunate. >> Huh? >> Did you say tonight?
I would like to move that Andy and Nancy make a move to acquire this property to lease this property here right now and look into this property also. That would be extremely valuable to the citizens of the city. it would get everybody's attention that we're serious about doing
something down there and we'd have control over what we can do with this property as far as accessibility, which is what I've talked about already and uh help developers, current developers down there as well as future developers and welcome serious future developers uh by
showing them that what we're trying to do down here is very serious. when you when you if you could if you could restate your motion more specific. You just said you'd like to make a motion to purchase the property. There's no amount. There's no >> Well, it's a negotiation.
>> So, you motion to start negotiations on the property, >> right? >> I know that we can acquire this property for our budget if they can negotiate something to where it would be in that budget or less. I'd like to make a motion to have Nancy and Andy negotiate
and and lock in that property for the city. >> Are is there an amount that you're going to >> Well, we have 1.9 in the budget. It would be that or less. >> Okay. So, you're making a motion that they would they would negotiate the the the purchase of the property up to $1.9
million >> for both pieces of property. >> Yes. >> Oh, that includes the Thai restaurant. Thai restaurant and the you know everything. >> Okay. >> Got a question. I'm sorry. Um that piece of property that you mentioned that's behind the pirate bar there, is that
included in the deal? >> Yes. This little piece here >> that's included in the deal. >> Yes. And and behind all this behind the restaurant here and of course this is our rideway >> in that one section. the old Gildog
property beside the pirate park >> with cars parked there. Yeah, that's Gildog property. There's a fence that goes high. Okay, >> this this is Yeah, they were Yeah, this is parking over here. A lot of trees and this is kind of crappy piece of property here. This needs to be cleared out, too. But yes, this is included in it.
>> So, so for clarity purposes, there's one owner for that whole piece that butts up to our two lots and that also butts up to where those cars were dog owns. Correct. >> Yes, Billy. Call it Kadus.
>> No, he asks me to say it again. It's right there. He owns all this property. Yes. And he wants he he wants out. He doesn't want his property swapped. >> He wants out. The bait shop would be ours. Take it down. Do whatever we want with that. Uh I would suggest Well, I
mean, this is if we acquired a property, but you can put shops right down here, have a parking garage in here future. So you're talking years down the road that you could have shops here. You could have another bait shop. You could build little This is a historic little building. If you could build some
buildings like that down here in pastels, it would be very inviting and have all this as far as parking um for access to the to the water area. I mean, it's parking now, but I think we need to and we can do all kinds of stuff with
this property over here, too. So, it would pay for itself. I think they'd be a great investment for the city and if you want to get funding for the city to see the acquisition means we're serious about doing stuff down there as well as some other projects I want to talk about
after this. But Andy, >> question. >> Sure. >> Um, are you talking about when you mentioned the 1.9, are you talking about in this fiscal budget that we're sitting in talking about right now? Are you talking about next year's budget? >> CRA CRA. It says 1.9 for property
acquisition. That's October 1st. >> Yeah, it's October 1st. We I'm not 100% that we can >> Okay. >> go in agreement to do anything with fiction money. This is all fictionary money. So, we haven't approved a final budget. So, there's not 1.9 million. If you're going to use what's in there now,
then you can you can appropriate that this year of what's in there right now, but then you'd have to I'd have to come back and we'd have to finagle a little bit this year. I mean, if you're talking about want to go do it this year and use this year's money, we absolutely can. I just have to update that. But you can't
really go forward and spend money we haven't approved yet. >> Okay. >> So, if you want to talk about this year, there is money in there to do it this year to do that. Then, you know, we we just got to word it correctly so that we >> could Well, that's that's that's what
obviously there's a motion on the on the floor. Okay. And and I would we I can call for a second for the purpose of discussion or if you want to retract your motion, we can have some more discussion. But I think before we move to a motion on something, we probably ought to have some more discussion. Um
but I don't want to I don't want to force a vote on this until we have some discussion. Um, so procedurally, would you want to pull your motion for right now and then we can cast? >> Yeah, I'll pull it for now. Discuss. I wanted Andy and actually >> wanted them to to work this out >> and there'll be an opportunity for that
after we have some discussion. So, >> well, I I the land is inherently valuable, especially down in the waterfront. It does give us it would give us like a a stakeholder claim there with a lot of flexibility connecting as you said councilman from 19 all the way
to to the river. Uh so it is a a great opportunity shortterm it would really help us when we when we come up with the redesign for Nick's park to to freshen that up. It would help us to continue operations there. Let's say you fence off half of Nick's park at a time and
get it worked on and then do the other half, there'd still be parking uh as the parking lot was cleared. Um the current parking lot was cleared, you'd have parking just just east of there where Billy already rents parking spots when
there's when the free city parking is filled up. Um, and then of course it has an inherent value that whatever plans change, it's valuable property. So, uh, now I I think in talking to Billy, I don't think he used the word legacy, but
it sounded like he wanted to leave a legacy. He'd rather sell it to the city, I think, uh, if a developer bought it now, the city would never have another chance for 100 years to buy it is how Billy put it and probably true because of its value. but he wants to give us a
first right of refusal at least. So, I would love the opportunity to uh with Nancy negotiate a fair price for the property. I think it'd be a great asset for the city and a and a a good use of CRA money enabling us to uh to parlay the parks we have and maybe add to the
park situation with part of that property. >> I I agree with everything you're saying. I'm 100% with that. If we're if we're talking about doing this and we're still in this fiscal year, so we talk about using the money we have right now, it's the same money basically except it's
appropriated differently. So if we're going to do that, we say, "Okay, let's do this." So if we go next week and buy this, we we do it in this fiscal year because we haven't we don't actually have a budget set for next year until our next reading. So if we're talking about we have to use the words this fiscal year so that we can move forward.
And if we do that, we can appropriate that money in this fiscal year. And then I come back at our next budget meeting and and reappropriate with the with the with that taken out. So what we appropriated was money we're carrying forward. We're not going to carry forward that if we appropriate it now to
purchase this land if that's what we have to do or we sit and say, "Okay, we're talking about it to spend in next year's budget if appropriate." But right now, we don't have any money appropriated for that. But if you're going to buy it, you got to buy it out this fiscal year. I would in my motion I would ask for reappropriation. >> Repropriation.
>> Now I do I'm saying that because I agree it's a great deal and talked to Andy. It's just you know if we use the wording incorrectly it could falter some things. So yeah, we don't technically have any money for next year. >> When you say it's a great deal, is there numbers involved? >> I don't heard the number yet. >> Well, I mean I just I heard preliminary
numbers of you know 1.6 or 1.9. I think he's >> from what he's saying is the ballpark numbers that I'm hearing. So, like if we want to appropriate that money right now, we can do that and say we set this aside and then I come back with at the next budget meeting with a different
budget for you guys, not adding but just subtracting that that land acquisition out. >> Well, I don't want to get too caught up in in I mean, we're a couple weeks away from October one, so no real estate deal is going to happen that fast anyway. So,
and obviously whatever the if there was a negotiation that happens, I would think it would have to come back to council to approve that purchase. You guys can't we just can't give you a blanket, right? >> Check. >> I'd be very uncomfortable even with direction for Andy and I to negotiate it without coming back to you guys to
finalize. >> And I would would never pass an open motion like that to without knowing the cost, >> right? No. >> I mean, what's one thing to negotiate a price? I'm asking for a negotiation and then next meeting if we approve a deposit and
then of course the closing date would be later. >> So so it's the same dollars. It's just if we if we use >> I think it's the wording. I don't think we say we buy anything. We're negotiating. You can negotiate it. I just I just think the wording the way I
heard it is kind of off. We're saying let's you know we say we negotiate. We go in there and then, you know, at our next meeting we say, "Let's purchase if that's what we want to do." But if we're talking about negotiating right now and hope, you know, he's he's very excited about it. I think it's a very good thing, but we have to make sure we understand that we don't have any money
for next year technically right now. Do you want to buy it today? If you say, "Hey, let's go negotiate today for it. We need to appropriate out of this year's budget, not next year because we don't have >> We don't to to negotiate." Maybe I'm wrong to appropriate. We wouldn't buy it until after October,
which that's budgeted, >> right? >> So, just just to have a conversation doesn't cost any money. >> The way I heard it, it wasn't a conversation. It was more like I'm excited about saying we just got to word it the correct way because when he's talking about he's he's using a $ 1.9 million
>> uh appropriation that's in our fiscal next year budget, we technically don't have right now. Right. >> So, if you're talking about 1.9 million, we don't have 1.9 million till next year. That's what I'm saying. I think if if like we could do a reappropriation for the funds, but if the in
negotiations it comes to the point to where he's wanting a deposit, we could have an emergency meeting for that. But we would be informed on negotiations and we could have an emergency meeting if it needed be to to get this done if that's what needs to be done. >> That's what I'm saying. We have the
money to do it now if you want to. I mean that 1.9 million is just rolled over money, right? I'm just saying but the way you're the way we word it, we have to make sure it in this in the fiscal years because we that 1.9 you keep talking about is not actual money yet, >> right? >> Well, it will be after October.
>> It's it's a theoretical ceiling. >> It is. It is. But, you know, I'd hate to I hate for anybody to come back and that we're doing things out of sequence. >> Point taken. We're >> just pointing. Yeah. Um, so is you mention 1.6. That's that's kind of the the the one I heard as well. Is that
>> fair? because I I I can talk a little bit about that if that's the reference point. >> I'm not sure. I mean, it could be, like I said, that's why negoti he was wanting he's he's been offered 1.5 for it. I mean, he's I don't know if
he'll sell it to us for less. He's talking about a million in financing risk. I don't want to find you have to get bonding and all. It's it's not good for the city to do that. I I've done a little research >> and due diligence. So I >> I know >> I talked to uh I talked to Ron McDonald
who's a real estate uh person and also talk to Sean P on on values of per acre uh in the waterfront not on the water not on 19. So I'm going to I'm going to carve out the um the tie restaurant because that's on 19 and just talk about
uh Coke's property. Um so that's 1.1 acres. Okay. Okay. And at a price of 1.6. Let me pull up my >> 1.8. You said >> 1.6. >> 1.6. 1.1 acres. >> 1.5. >> It's 1.1 acres for the four parcels. I I
got a uh >> what's that? >> 1.6. >> He's asking 1.6. So >> his initial offer was a million up front and then finance the other 600k over 25 years. I think >> so. I'm going to share my screen. I
think it should see I think you stop sharing Bob for a minute. >> Oh, you're good. Ashley must took you out. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, here's here's the four parcels
up here. So one's point45, one's 24, one's 24 or 22 or 22 or 0.24, one's.17 for a total of 1.1 acres. Here's a land value and tax thing is 161,13. Building value 12,920 uh 24 features 13
and then for a total appraised value of all four properties 1870. That's tax valuation, right? Um what Ron had said is in low end uh $650,000 an acre and then he said highend about $800,000
an acre. And just so you so you know on the proposed purchase at 1.6 million that's a million4 an acre. Okay. So considerable higher from the high end almost double uh of 800,000. Now, when I talked to Shawn Pull, just to give us
another opinion, and Shawn Pull's probably a little more in tune with that than Ron is, just because Shawn is is Snap Real, he's actively selling stuff in the area. And um and he said his high
end was about 650. Okay. And so at 650, that total value be about 715 would probably be what our target would be, right? Um I will say as a cop the Gildog purchase here that was 8 and a half acres and that included waterfront property and 19 frontage property. So
the the big trailer park lot on 19 and the Gildog along the water there not you know not the water of the but the canal well there is very small point that goes out that is facing that but they paid
920 an acre. So there was there was some additional money in there obviously because of the waterfront that you have and also the the 19 frontage. So that's a good comparison to use because that just happened. And so for us to pay 1.6
for that is a is a non-starter in my mind and he's not going to sell that for that um because it's not not worth that. And so I just want to share those numbers first off. Um, and I definitely don't have a problem
negotiating on it. And I I think it it has uh value. So the next thing I want to talk about is is what would we do with that? Because it's not really a government's job to speculate on real estate. Um, you know, we we we we could
do some things with it. Yes. And you mentioned building some some shops and stuff along there. Again, it's not something that a a government entity would normally do is is develop a property. >> It leases out property to people that would >> you can do that and it's but again you you basically you're taking on the cost
of doing that development yourself which um just I'll use Ryan's numbers. He just reported today at planning and zoning is that the the across the eight and a half acres the the 19 property which is about five
that was a eight a $58 million uh project and then the other part the Gildog property was a $80 million project for a total about 138 million across those eight and a half acres. Okay. So obviously it would be very difficult for the city to go into and
develop something of any scale uh on that property. Um the only thing that we could possibly do if we acquired it was to be to engage developers to provide whether to lease property back over and they build on it or something like that.
Again whatever we buy we get zero tax dollars from. So depending on what we want to do with our property acquisition, I think we start there. So what what do we if we purchase this for whatever amount?
What do you think our immediate goal do? >> Well, immediate would be would be parking like said accessibility and that would benefit everybody. I mean as far as like Christine had some ideas, Chris had some ideas. I think that would be something in the future, but I think it
could be something we could discuss. There's a lot of things we could do with it, >> right? >> That that can be discussed later. I just think acquiring the property would be an asset to the city instead of a developer putting a car wash down there, someone buying a car. You want to sell it to somebody else. >> You can't have car wash at WOD.
>> Okay. >> I believe that's correct. >> I think they can put they can put different things down there that may not help other people down there, >> right? If you if you want to buy the property, prevent >> free enterprise from doing something with it. >> I'm not doing it. >> But the the WD to benefit the city and
it it could pay for itself with parking fees. >> Right. So if we just cover parking because I looked at that. I think they charge $10 for boat trailers. Um and let me >> currently Right. So here I'm going to go through this and and this is Whoops.
What happened? So, I I went down and and and captured um all historical photos that Google Earth had of that that uh lot. And there's there's about one every year. Couple years have two. So, this is
coming the most recent. So, this is a Sunday, February 23rd, 2025 on a Sunday. Our our boat ramp is pretty full there, as you can see. But there is not that look like there's a couple trailers here. Okay. And if I continue
on, here's Saturn, April 20. Now, this is this is most representative of a weekend that would be really busy. And I I tried to count what was on here and probably around 40 or so. Uh at this time, this was Saturday, April 20th,
2024. If you move to Sunday, March 26, 2023, you have nothing. Sunday, March 13, 2022, nothing. Sunday, October 17th, 2021. There's a few in there. Monday, May 24th, 2021. Just a couple. Friday,
December 18th, 2020. Nothing. November 27th on a Wednesday. Four there. >> Yeah. November. Yeah. Okay. >> Well, I had business down there, >> right? So, people park on the side of the roads. The parking lot's been filled. They had what? Whiskey was leasing property from us because they
didn't have enough parking. There's a parking problem down there now. And if you want to develop this, you want developer to develop, you need to fix that and have more parking because you're going to have a bigger problem in the future. And that's why this property is valuable and it will pay for itself. >> There were people parking at Hooters. Yeah.
>> When they were closed, too. So, >> are you not boat parking, I'm just talking about boat parking. So, Alison, you could boat parking there. Parking. This is cars and boats and trailer. I'm not crazy about boats and trucks and trailers there, but we have a boat ramp, right? >> But that parking would be for cars and the parking garage would be mainly for
cars and you could have trucks and trailers. You can't park on the first floor of that parking garage during the day and people can run up with cars on the roof and at night time the ramp would be closed and it all be for cars and you're going to need that parking, >> right? >> Plus, you can do other things with the property besides that,
>> right? 100%. parking is >> $15 for trucks and and trailers and $10 or $5 even for cars to park there would be valuable for everybody down there and the city, >> right? So, and I won't go through all these. I just flipped them, but most of
the time these pictures it's there's not a lot going on there now. All the restaurants and so keep in mind as these businesses open, there's parking requirements that are required. Um, obviously Hooters has a requirement, scratches has a requirement. They have an overflow lot even to meet that requirement. And anything that goes in down there is going to have a parking
requirement. Um there are times when we we're we're starving for parking when we have fireworks and different things and they've used the Gildog lot on 19. And so there is at times uh a parking need. But from an
investment perspective is is all I want to talk about. Let me pull the other one back up there. from an investment perspective. Someone wants to put a business down there and they need to have parking accessibility. Well, we're providing that for them already. That's a big bonus for them, too, >> right? If we So, and and I I I'll use
Newport Richie as example. They've been I know what they put in that $10 million. You know what that parking deck was for like >> it was close to 10 million >> $10 million parking structure, whatever. Um so, it's empty most of the time. Now, when there's when there's an event or something down there, obviously that's So,
if we and I just did a little number here at the 1.6 million, if we if we had 50 trailers per week and if you if you let's bump that up to we have a 100 cars there, okay, at $10 each, it takes us 30 years to get that 1.6 million back. If you cut that in half and pay 800,000,
that's going to be 15 years. It's a long time. >> But then you still have the property though. So, so the property, >> right? So then you the property by then would be so much higher. So you'd have to factor that in as well. >> Again, if we if we could get the property for a for a a good price, it
gives us options. I don't and parking obviously brings in some revenue. I mean, we're getting the adalorum on it right now, we get $1,100 a year just and that which is nothing. Um so you could actually you get more money from parking to beat that. So you you definitely be getting more for it than you would. But
again, I think the key is and what I I don't want to I don't want to lose is we want to have a destination to park at. You don't want just come down here and park now because there's nothing to do. So unless you have something going on down I'll put public comments in
if if you know if we have that land that we are able to use to help develop that down there, it makes a lot of sense. Um but again, it's not selling because the price is too high. So, >> so he's that's going to sell to somebody else if we don't. And then who knows
what they're going to put there and then you want to want to put parking down there later. You're not going to be able to, >> right? >> Well, that's the bottom line. >> Well, that's not true. >> Yeah, it is. Absolutely. >> Again, they you can't just build something without the ability to park,
>> right? For instance, we're going to put a rest. If somebody bought that, put a restaurant, they would have to have so many parking spaces. Do you ever go to like John's Pass or you ever go to Marco Island or downtown Berneden and there's a lot of sharks? They don't have parking >> right in our in our city, we have we
have parking requirements. And so the the questions didn't cooperate with that, did they? >> Yeah, they did. That's >> No, they didn't. >> They got they got they got a room for 100 people there and they got parking for 40 cars. >> They couldn't open without the the parking. >> That's why they had to acquire that other lot on
>> work out very well for them. That's why they had to lease other people's property for parking. If we improve the boat ramp and improve boat parking out there on the docks, aren't we planning for future revenues as well for future of the future of the
park and increased park usage due to the waterfront being up and coming and revitalized and everything? Are we planning for the future, not for today? >> That's correct. So if we don't do this now, then that we won't have the opportunity to buy parking spaces again.
So we'd be stuck with what's at the park and then our park would kind of be obsolete. >> Well, here's here's the the thing and you're right. Right. But if you take the heart of our waterfront, which is what this is. This is right smack dab in the middle of the waterfront >> and you build a big parking structure
there. You know what are they parking for? I mean just go out look on the water. You're not going to do it right now. Matter of fact, all you do do is have the engineering for it. And you have a resort sees, well, these guys are serious about parking. They got accessibility. We can do something there.
>> They're going to want to somebody's going to want to build there and they're going to want to bring traffic in there because they got a place for it. It's future development. It's not something right now, but we need parking now. Actually, we we could use some parking right now. But if you want this to develop, you're going to have to have
accessibility for whatever anybody does down there, even current developers. And you want future developers, you need to have accessibility for them. >> So if money was not an option, right? If money was not an option, >> was an option. >> Excuse me. I'll
>> Okay, I'll have the floor now. Okay. >> So if we had to if money was an object and we purchased this property and we would put a parking deck there, let's say. Is that is that something that we you're you're thinking? I'm just trying to see what >> in probably four or five years. Yeah. So
the the the the long-term goal would to build a parking structure there. >> It takes time to do that. Yes, >> I understand. Again, money ups and say the money's just falling out of our pockets, >> right? >> And we could do it today. The the the long-term goal is if if we're looking to park to build a parking deck there,
that's kind of the goal. Okay. And so >> I think for the first years it could be a surface parking lot while being >> you can do lots of things with it. But if our long and that's that's what I'm getting at. What's our long-term goal with what's what's our vision for this
purchase? Because >> what's your long-term goal? >> Well, I want to I want to see our waterfront be a destination where you can go down and you can, you know, visit a shop. You can uh you can go to a restaurant. you know, a vibrant uh
downtown type feel where you have stuff to do. >> You want to have festivals and stuff, right? >> Festival. Sure. More probably waterfront park than it would be in in there. But if if that was developed down there into a vibrant um downtown like field area, you could probably have some street
festival stuff like that. But again, if it's if it's just a big parking structure in the middle of it, you know, >> I'm not I'm not sure that's something that would uh be beneficial. >> John's Pass has one right that they wish they'd had it sooner, but they got one
right in the middle of their >> John's right in the middle of John's Pass. They got a five vice garage now. >> Okay. I've been to John's Pass and there's stuff to do down there besides park. I guess you need parking. >> That's what we That's what we want to do, too. And and I will say too that the
the idea behind WOD, it's not that way, but if we're going to provide structured parking, we could reduce the parking requirements on businesses because we would have that structure there. >> Have more businesses. Exactly. But where would businesses go?
>> Well, there's a lot more options then, isn't there? >> Right. >> Well, no, it's all Yeah. No, there'd be more options because instead of having a building and three4s of their property have to be for parking, they could have 80% for their business and that's part
because we're providing parking for them. I'm I'mma pull up the map. [Music] >> If I may, if we fired it, we could uh re realign the roads >> to a way that made sense for us for the
for the future. And then we could identify parts of our parcel that we could sell off to private businesses that would benefit for being on the right place on the because the roads could be totally different than they are right now. >> And set up
>> 80% 90% sure that if you have a designed parking garage and a place for it down there that a future resort developer and the state of Florida would help you build it. have that be part of the terms as you they have to have
parking accessibility. It's already implemented. All they have to do is help with some of the funding as well as the state and it's you got a place for it. >> So here here's the entire waterfront and obviously these parcels here sold and somebody may do something with those
very very soon to the tune of $138 million. Don't know what it is. Plans are supposed to be submitted within a couple weeks. You have the the old seaside restaurant here. The hotel's coming down, right? I think they've already moved on that or whatever. But so that and that's currently for sale.
So that's something that somebody could potentially do something with. Hooters's probably not going anywhere. Already there. Uh same thing with Whiskey Joe's. Whiskey Joe's bought the um the house here that they're going to do some kind of wedding event venue or whatever. And
they also bought I think they're have a contract on this property here to satisfy their parking needs. All right. Hey, on that already. >> It Pasco appraiser didn't show a change yet. Uh oh, this is sorry. This is this is catches. >> That's catches.
>> Catches. That's overflow. This one right here is what I think is under contract with uh Whiskey Joe's. >> That's correct. >> Yeah. Apologize. And obviously Catches is here. They ain't going anywhere. The marina's here. And so really outside of
that, um this right here is all the vacant land that's left. And so if you if you again this is and I'm not I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer. I just want to make sure that we have the right vision because the vision for the waterfront wasn't to have a big
structured parking deck right smack dab in the middle of it. It would make probably more sense to have the parking deck down here uh kind of away from all the action because this is this is the heart of our waterfront. And if we if we build a parking garage that is just a parking garage,
you know, you got to make sure that you have lots of things around here for that. >> Well, that's how you get things around here. They're there. So, what >> they're not there yet. >> Are you Are you Are you thinking if we build a parking deck here that all the waterfronts will be bulldozed and they're going to build other things? I mean, that's possibility, I guess.
>> Well, I think that you you're going to invite more businesses because they're not going to be strapped for having to build parking. I think there'd be more accessibility to everybody, current developers and and future developers. And like I said, you're talking five years down the road. It's not overnight.
>> You acquired property now. Then we need to do like a a match funding for a design first >> and that's going to take a while to get that done. And then we have it that's sitting there with the footprint of where it goes. You have future
developers come in there. We said, "Well, we have a design for a parking garage. this is where we want to put it. If you want to put a resort in here or we can even advertise that we have this and what we're doing to bring a developer or a resort in there that helps their footprint as far as a
business. They don't have to furnish parking because we have it for them and they'll help >> perh build that for us as well as the state because it's a big improvement for the county. This is I'm talking about this is should be have a lot of business going on down here would be probably the
busiest part of this county by far once it's done. But you have to have accessibility or plans for accessibility in order for that to happen. You can't just have a parking lot here, parking lot there, and just a business scattered around. You have to I mean like I said, I've been a lot of different places and there's usually a parking garage for
events or for for the weekends for the business down there. And we have problem right now with parking down there. people park on the side road. Now, Whiskey Joe's did purchase that property. Maybe they'll do something else with it if we put a parking garage in there. I don't know. But it being it improved the whole waterfront area. Like
I said, got docks for boat do parking and you got parking for cars, boats, and trailers. And that's something that you're going to show you have accessibility for anybody wants to do business in there. That's that's going to improve the property. It's going to improve real estate property as well as a couple other things I want to mention
too. So either you want to do it or let them sell to somebody else and they'll put hit the ball courts or they'll put whatever down there. I don't know. But I just think for the future of the city, this is important piece of real estate to have. If I if I may, uh I've heard the number maybe a thousand new
residents might be living down there when Mr. Burke's development is done and people bring need cars and delivery vehicles and all kinds of things. And then we've talked about I think that development was pretty much sold to the public based on it won't be a compound
with a with a wall blocking the view. It'll help current citizens get to the waterfront and enjoy it. So a city-owned place to park I think would would help to that end. I've even heard I think one of the councilmen has suggest maybe a free parking for citizens, a free
parking pass, >> right? >> That would get you in that. Uh so that'd be honoring a promise to the current citizens and welcoming people know they have somewhere to park when they come in for the new people that are going to be moving in to man the uh the the new Muffet Center.
>> Exactly. And you're going to have a lot of traffic from that. >> So they live here but so they're not getting a hotel parking spot down there. But they they live here and they know they live 20 minutes away and they know they can come down and visit the waterfront and find a parking spot. and you have a carnival or something over at Waterfront Park with food trucks and
stuff, a big event. You're going to have four or five years going to have shuttles from here to Newport Richie and around here we talking about maybe a little tram or something carrying people around people up at the parking lot taking them over to uh Waterfront Park from there. >> Yes.
>> Well, I think I think people you're talking about that which I'm not saying it's a bad idea. I'm not saying it's a good idea, but what I do know is about four years ago, we bought the property over there. >> Mhm. >> And it was sold to the people as we're buying that property for parking. And
what happened is nobody in the city, no citizens were ever allowed to park on that property. Yeah. >> It was about half a million dollars wrapped up in >> it was about it was Yeah. It was about I think it was 300,000 a piece by the time they tore it down there. Yeah. was about $500,000
and it was all it was all sold to um the citizens on oh more parking >> and not one of us ever got to park on that property. >> You said that was half a million dollars >> by the time we >> by the time they did the demolition >> demolition and all that's about half a million dollars in it. >> Okay.
>> So with four more parcels half a million dollars spent on that that would be like nearly $2 million. So we're still under that. So it seems >> what I'm basically saying is plan because there wasn't a plan before. There was a before there was a oh if we buy this property you you'll have
someplace to park and >> well we can charge $10 for parking right now tomorrow but um in the future I I think that this is imperative that we offer accessibility to the waterfront district. Um and real estate is worth
what someone's willing to pay for it and he's going to sell it for for more than 1.3 million anyway. So, we don't buy it. He'll sell it to somebody else. And who knows what they're doing and who knows what kind of accessibility we have to it. I don't have no idea. But I'd like to have it where the citizens have
something that for the future of the city as that grows down there, which is what I'm trying to do. Improve the value of people's property without raising their taxes. This is imperative. >> I agree, Bob, that we should negotiate. >> Oh, I I have
>> I agree. We should negotiate. Um and and I've done a substantial amount of buying and selling real estate, commercial, residential, and we have um this beautiful boat ramp and this waterfront access right there. And
regardless of which way we go, whether we decide we want to put a parking garage there or whether we want to enter into a a public private relationship somehow like Newport Richie does in these situations here, that property is going to be valuable.
>> Um that is that is in the future, you know, that's going to be some very val. We're not going to get it back. We're not going to get another opportunity to buy it. And as long as we don't have another use, the only thing I'm looking at right now is do we have a better use for that money? Because if we don't have
a better use for that money sitting in the bank right now, we're actually losing money when it's sitting there. >> Absolutely. >> Versus investing it. >> And we can buy and I'm just throwing some numbers out there. If we can buy that and the the tie place for less than what we were planning on spending anyway, um I think it's a great
investment and I think it's going to complement us in the near future because our folks over there who who have dropped, you know, all that money on gild dogs and everything over there, they're not going to stop. It's g somebody's going to move and do something over there which is going to make that property worth even more. Um,
so I'm I'm open to the idea as long as you guys or gals can't come up with a reason why we could we should spend that money elsewhere. But sitting on our hands right now is not a good move for us. And and I think this is this is really is our crown jewel. This is our opportunity to have a piece of of the
you know the entryway to the golf. >> Well, I agree, Chris. I think we can we can do private and public uses for that over there. >> And that's something that we can determine. I mean, I got ideas. Everybody's got ideas. I think if we purchase that, we can put together a
workshop later this year, next year, and decide more of what we want to do with the future of that. But I think a parking garage on part of that would be imperative to the growth of that that real estate down there. But you're right, and if we wanted to in four or
five years it didn't work out, we could sell for more than what we paid for probably. So, keep in mind that um as things develop down there, whether it's on that parcel or other parcels, they're going to have to be elevated. And when they're elevated, you park underneath the elevation. So, I mean, you're going
to see plans come forward. You're going to have a couple levels of parking as part of that. >> Yeah. So, >> if we own that property, the dredging material will go there, too, for that. >> Right. >> So, there's going to be parking components at the lower level on all the stuff that gets built down there anyway.
So, as as things develop, there's going to be parking included in that >> and there might not be a necessity for a parking garage because you might wind up raising all those buildings and parking underneath. But regardless, we need the land, >> right? So, and I don't have a problem. Like I said, if we can get the land for
a good price. I don't want to overpay for this because again, >> you paid half a million dollars for 9 and 10 and you're looking at four more lots for 2 million. >> They paid 300,000, but they had two houses. They had a demo and and that. >> Okay. But still, you're not far off base adding four more parcels. >> And that was a long time ago.
>> That was a long time ago. Now things, you know, and it's not coming around again. >> Yeah. >> So, those nine and 10, >> and we don't even know a price yet. They haven't started negotiating. These are just talks about can we get to a negotiation table. So, >> yeah. I I I don't have a problem with
negotiating on those properties. Um, obviously, I just want to make sure that >> you're not going to buy anything down for like that for an acre and a half for 600,000, >> right? >> Ain't going to happen. >> Okay. Devin I'm just helping you out brother and I don't forget it.
>> Go ahead Chris. >> I'm sorry. Who do we have to negotiate this on our behalf? >> It's been talked about Nancy and myself. >> I don't negotiate. I draw papers. I mean I would not be dependent. Billy said his at he his brother-in-law is a realtor or
son-in-law's a realer, but he wasn't going to use a realtor. He just was going to use his lawyer. >> You're going to need to have somebody represent your interest. >> He was just going to get a lawyer. He wasn't going to use >> We'll have to figure that out. So, I I would have need somebody who does this, who's savvy, that understands things that, you
know, this is this is not a place for us to like, okay, well, let's just make a contract. We need to be very um methodical with this and and and I think we need to move forward, but we need to have somebody negotiating this who's who's able to do this correctly or we're not out there, you know.
>> Right. One advantage we do, he does want to sell to the city before anybody else. So, that's a huge advantage. But I I agree with Chris. >> I mean, and can do preliminary negotiations. We already talked to him. >> So, are we under a consensus that that can do
>> and and we can obtain our own realtor? Let's I have his motion >> and or attorney. We we we could hire an attorney or realtor or both to represent us. >> And you can say the attorney part we can handle. My firm can handle that part. We have a real estate person. I mean, we could do that part. Negotiating is not
what we I would do. I wouldn't call them up and say, "Hey, I'll give you 1.2." I don't I don't do that part. My firm would do that part. Um but there are people that will do that. And I would obviously recommend that you find the right person for that with something this substantial. And I can help you with that. Well, he
>> So, I appreciate the offer to the the confidence you have in me, but it will not be me to do that part of it. >> It was you and Andy handle it, >> negotiate, whatever. But yeah, you you guys could handle it. But I if you want to have someone else to negotiate then,
>> do you have anybody tonight that would be able to do that? >> No, time to find that person. That's >> I couldn't I can't really do that. He wants I could work a deal out, but I mean I'm can't >> probably already have that person in the city. It's probably conversation that
Andy could have with somebody and it doesn't have to be a full point commission. It could just be a you know like a peacemail thing. Okay, we want you to put together the documents for this. I mean, a good real estate attorney who was savvy could handle this for you. >> I I don't really know any in the area. There's a couple that are over in
Trinity that are very good, but um you need to have somebody that's willing to get in there and negotiate, get this whole thing done. They're going to do it with the entire restaurant and everything. just do the whole thing at one time. >> Well, the tie restaurant would be a separate issue. I think >> might have someone
>> you want to move all at one time or somebody's going to get somebody's gonna say, "Oh, you bought all that now." >> Well, that's kind of what I was trying to get to tonight. >> I understand it's separate contract, but it happens at the same time. >> Yeah. We can't use something, I guess. Go on the plan zoning board. Is that >> That would be a conflict, wouldn't it?
>> Yeah. >> Be making money off of it. it be some private game that I would maybe check with Newport Richie. >> We could we could leave that up to Andy and Andy could can consult with us
individually on that and um and then we can move forward >> before before this. His brother is a good friend of mine and and I know that there's a couple people already made offers on that property and I think Andy knows what that is. So he
understands he can't just go in there and insult a guy. He'll walk and sell it to him. >> So I don't want to do that. But >> uh Andy knows that. So he he understands the conversation we had. But if he has some help, he wants help. I'm all for that.
>> I welcome help. Team effort. But uh yeah, I've already spoken. We did we did an initial consultation with him and uh I think lowballing would be uh he'd just walk and sell to somebody else. He'd like to sell the city, but he's he's got
to make a certain amount to make family. >> He's given us first dibs is all go and make a motion. So, we get >> Yeah, I want to make a motion uh with the right appropriations uh that uh Andy and Nancy work a deal with Billy on that
property as well as the Thai restaurant property uh or purchase of those properties. >> Second. >> Okay. Motion to second. Any further discussion? Appreciate anything else? >> No, sir. I'm good. Okay.
uh public comment. >> Um so this is a complicated thing, but this is what I was talking about where we could put money into something that's a long-term goal. And this is the beginning of that. This is just getting our foot in the door. And you know, the
Ryan Burke show is potentially spending $138 million on these properties right over there. 2 million bucks is nothing. If that's what they build next door, why wouldn't we want control over that as an interest for our city? I mean, if this is our crown jewel, like Chris said, we
want to be able to have a stake in this to where some developer comes in and doesn't buy it out from underneath us. And what it really comes down to, and it boils down to what's called opportunity costs because you can't go back into the into the into the past and buy things once they're worth what they are. You're
never going to be able to get your hands on these properties. And and there's synergies down there because obviously we bought those two properties for what a half a million dollars. Those little two lots that we uh that we rent out or whatever. And then we got Nick's Park. I mean, and then we got Waterfront Park.
That gives us a whole different kind of dynamic and synergy down there that we can play on and allows us to to do things that we otherwise wouldn't be able to do. And we can shape that area to our vision, which gives the citizens through you guys an opportunity to actually have a say down there rather
than private interests coming in and doing whatever they want and running rampant in the city and developing whatever. This is a wonderful idea. This is exactly what we need for the citizens. And it gives us an opportunity to actually do something. Um and uh and it's and it's it's here. You know, it's
right in front of us. You know, the Thai restaurant just came up for sale because they got flooded. They don't want to do it no more. Billy's Billy's been done for forever. He owned way he owned all that almost, you know, for a long time. And uh and he wants out. Hopefully, we can um keep a bait shop there for, you
know, a while or whatever and maybe redo that, rebuild that. Um whether a parking garage goes in there or not, that's a long-term plan. But thing, you eat an elephant one bite at a time. And we need long-term visions in this city. And we have six more years in CRA, which means
we can purchase this now and keep inching this along into something great that we control as a city. And that's the beauty of this. So, and as far as comps and stuff like that, if you got if you know, you know, as being spec speculatory, if you know you have a
development potentially going in for $138 million, you know, you know, not even, you know, a football field away, yeah, 2 million bucks is no big deal. And also too, the opportunity cost just because we got Nicks Park and that other piece of property and that would give us
that whole strip to build something better. If you own, you know, I bought I bought 11 properties on on Bay Boulevard, and because I I own all of them in in aggregate, they're worth way more than individually because one maybe one day I could sell that to somebody in
a in a in an entirety and it's worth way more. So, it's the same thing for the city. It gives us it gives us um a synergy. So, that's that's my that's my spiel. So, good job. I'm glad everybody's seem to be in agreement. Yeah, Eric, >> one one question I have for you. Um,
just because, uh, at the last meeting you mentioned that you you weren't on board with spending money on properties. What's different about this property just because it's so close to the park? >> So, so, okay. So, that that that's an interesting point. This this is opening
us up to be able to do something greater with the whole Nicks Park and those two properties. before we really can't do anything because we got these two lots. They're almost useless to us. That's why we haven't done anything with them is because they're useless. Um and and
Nicks Park is, you know, kind of a weird thing where the parking and stuff. So there's really not an ability to really do anything with a vision. But when you buy these in aggregate, it changes the whole dynamic and it opens up opportunities whether it be parking
garages, shops, or uh or something for the public or or a private um public venture. Um you can you can do so much. For instance, if we were able to buy the whole downtown area, think about we what we could do. You could you could do so much with that. And we have the
opportunity to do it. And I don't think if we buy that, we're just going to leave that vacant. We're going to be able to do something relatively easy like do parking and stuff for now and then and then later we'll be able to put in shops or or something to that effect.
So, it's it's a it's a long-term thing. I mean, that's that's how you got to think when you're doing these things. You nothing's going to happen in Port Richie like that. It's going to take time, but I think Bob's got a wonderful vision and I think Eric means well as well. um he's, you know, he's got, you
know, his eyes set on on certain things down there and I get that. Um but I think that we need to have a stake in that area and that gives us that power and control which is really what matters. >> Yeah. I just want to clarify that one thing about not spending money for land acquisition, but obviously this is a
good instance of where that land acquisition might make some sense. com. I'm a common sense guy and I um if there's a good deal like Chris Chris sees the value in this because he's like a real estate guy to some degree and he's like man if I if he's thinking of it as if it was were his own and that's
why he's excited. You can hear it in his voice. >> Yeah. Thank you. All right. So it's all public. So I'm going to bring back for a vote. Um, I'm I'm I'm up on this and but obviously just at the very limited portion of making negotiation. Obviously, I want to I want to hear what
kind of price comes back. I want to I want to talk about vision and stuff down there because it I will agree 110% that that's a very uh key property that has huge potential for all kind of things. And if we own that, we are going to
control it and we need to make sure that we do the right things with it. And I think that would involve some public comment obviously going forward maybe exercise or whatever but definitely up on it. So all in favor signify by saying I >> I >> oppose. Motion carries.
>> Okay. >> I got 10 minutes. So yeah, a couple things. >> Do you have more than I mean? >> Well, I know I do. Correct. But anyway, um, appreciate that vote, but there's a couple other things I think we we should
be doing and looking at. I was riding around today. I've been thinking for quite a quite a while and I've been a lot of different communities. I just went had a birthday party for my grandchild down in Deneden and they have a a lot of places have these splash pads
and I'm going to tell you right now dollar for dollar a nice splash pad increases people's property value more than anything you can't dollar for dollar. either we have a perfect place, a perfect idea for the right property of
putting a nice splash pad between the playground and the dog park on Waterfront Park, a recirculating splash pad. And I looked at them and they're not astronomical. You can spend anywhere from $50,000 to $200,000 and you can have something when
moms go by, oh my god, that's when I have my birthday my kids birthday party at. So they're going to they can go down there in the summertime when it's hot and they can play on the playground and jump in the splash pad. And it's got they some of these new splash pads have things for
underprivileged children. Also it it creates motions where they can play and and it's good for coordinating young children to play in the water especially with their parents. So there's a lot of things you can do with a splash splash pad. Um, and I think Waterford Park
would be a great place to have it. And I would like to have Andy and S look into designs for splash pads, get prices so we can maybe get an engineering plan. We need shovel ready ideas for the state so they can see we're serious about what we're doing
down here. That's one thing. And I think that would be a great improvement for the city to tie into the playground at Waterfront Park with a nice splash pad. Do you in your research those? Do you know are those like uh like pool water where they recirculate or how? >> You can have both. The recirculating one
cost a little more initially but it saves you a lot of water. >> Sure. >> Instead of just pumping water into it, let it drain into the you know it would recirculate like a pool and you'd have a pool filter and chlorinator. Uh and I would recommend elevating it so if it floods it won't get damaged. But that's
once you get some ideas together, him and Sal put together some plans, we can look at that and we can get some prices and get something a footprint for it over there and and I think we could get assistance building that as well. I think we can do matching dollars and you're talking probably less than
$100,000 out of the city to build a quarter million dollar splash pad >> and that would be a great a great investment for the city. >> Yeah. Yeah, another idea I was looking for. So on that one, if if and I think the we've talked about sun shades or
shade sales for a long time and we we try to get some grants, never got anywhere with them. I don't think they're that astronomical. >> Shade over at Gildog you just talked about. >> Well, if we move that over there, but I mean you could actually do some nice triangular type shade sales or whatever.
>> Couple pavilions. They're expensive though. So, is there any objections to have the staff move forward with looking at uh splash pad placement and plans as well as putting some shade sales over there and kind of get us some idea costs? Same objections that >> I don't have any I don't have any
problems with any of the things we're talking about, but I think waterfront park alone is a much bigger project and instead of going around on the outside and working little things on the sides of it, I think we need a master plan, >> right? And we need to, you know, we're going to pop, we're going to pop, we're
going to pop, we're going to pop that, we're going to pop the the U waterfront over there, Gild Dogs, and then they're going to put up their, you know, condos. It's all going to happen at one time. So, I think we should probably, you know, I know I know Deon said earlier, we waste a lot of money on planning. But
I'll tell you what, poor planning causes big pain. So, we probably think about planning a little bit more with this beautiful property we have. >> I think it's a great idea. flashback awesome idea.
>> 100% what Chris on exactly what he said. The problem with waterfront is we're limited unfortunately. But I agree with Chris 100%. Like the docks, that's phase one. There's four phases. I'm not going to get into others. And my idea, I want you guys to think about it. But until he comes in a year with what we've already
proposed at next park, I'm not going to really talk about the others because we got to see how that works for but a splash pad >> would help with investments and help down at Waterfront Park and as far as future developments and future funds. >> I think we want to show we got to show
that the county and state we're serious about. >> No. And and so and I like like Chris thinking we've got a lot of things we've talked about amphitheater this now. Um, one thing I I haven't brought up, but what we need a we need a connection to go across to the downtown waterfront district and connect that park across
that water. So, a foot bridge or whatever where people can walk across there and go back and forth. So, I think rather than look at that small piece, why don't we why don't we get maybe somebody to kind of draw something up for Derek can speak to
>> comments. So, as we work with our proposed consultant, uh, you know, I'm taking all this information back to them because that's what they're looking for is feedback. But those are ideas and the deliverable would be a 3D model. So, whatever community decides and council
decides, they'll 3D model it. So, you see what it looks like and make, you know, edits that way. And then, uh, choose a design and then prioritize, you know, which part you want to hit first, uh, depending on funding. And then the next step would be design actual design
engineering. But all these comments are helpful because that's what we're going to eventually look for. We'll still do, you know, workshop with community and the board and council. But these are helpful to get us even a little bit closer and speed up the process. >> And you wouldn't want the expense of a public pool. It would be 20 times a
splash pad. The splash pad is a great way to cool off cool off on a budget. Kids are moving and they're cooling off and it's and it's on a budget compared to a pool and the ongoing maintenance and lifeguarding of that. So, great idea, sir. We'll we'll get right on that one. >> Yeah. So, maybe let's put together a
master plan. We and maybe we can have a workshop and kind of talk. >> As Derek was saying, Tampa Bay Regional Planning Conference is the first entity we've gone to to see what their pricing is on a master plan and uh he's taking all this input. Please speak to that. Yeah, they don't have to be the person. We're just looking chopping around.
Since we're a member of government, we thought we might get a better price. And so, right now, they're they're just gathering data to present to us a cost. If if we don't like it or doesn't work out for us, we can go to a you know, regular design engine. >> Okay. Go ahead.
>> So, yeah. Anyway, that's I just think that would be above all a great improvement for the city and I think it would draw people from all around. Uh anyway, a week my my grandkids live in Logan. They drove all the way to need for a little water park, water splash
pad. So, um Rasher Park, I was down there today looking at what they were doing down there. Definitely different. >> It is. >> Daryl's out there mowing the grass and the guys were u having sandwiches and some kind of beverage. Anyway, uh I've
been all over the state uh at different boat ramps and um as far as having that as like a boat ramp, I was thought that would be great for the citizens go so they get away from the the the the traffic down here at Nicks or even what
Pasco New is doing. the pro there's a couple big problems and and and if you look at the the map up here if you come in down here you have you boat ramps you have to come in you have to have a staging area you have to have staging area and water for boats waiting
for their turn may not be a lot could be two but you need to have a staging area you need to have docks um this would probably be the best location for a boat ramp would be at the end down here um this really isn't feasible but if you got a truck in a trailer. I've done this
many times. Your public boat ramps take up a lot of real estate. A lot of real estate. Um you come in and you come in, you'd have a staging here just like you do at Nick's Park and you wait for if someone's at the ramp. If not, then you drive around here and you pull up and
then you back in to put the boat in the water. What you do if you put a boat ramp out there, you lose all this parking here. You lose all this parking here. You only have parking for uh trucks and trailers. maybe right here and it would probably be about 18 of them.
>> Well, so keep in mind too, we talked about this today in respect to moving the um the bathroom here. Obviously, in this photo, you see the old bathroom, but if if we would put the bathroom, you see where the sign is right there at the very corner we come in, >> right? >> So, you you would you would basically
kind of get close to that. We actually talked about you could possibly take that old sign, it's a like a gate, put that on the the bathroom facility and and have a mural there, sunset or whatever where it kind of would would it serve as a sign and the bathroom as well. But basically, you would you would
come in, you would expand across all that green space. So you would bring your your trailer along that perimeter on the north as you come around and you come down, make the turn and you you had the launch there and then you had the parking kind of right. >> So you got a lot of mangros here.
Actually this is an old picture because this all the mangroves here you can't even see the water which is talked about trimming them >> right that tree line basically right where >> all through here. So >> but you would be able to get around that back you'd have to have oneway traffic a road that goes over here. >> Yeah. basically right along the perimeter there
>> over this one >> on the other side of of the of the bathroom would be here. >> It just was just >> no engineering or anything, but it just it would make a little sense. >> But you'd come one way into the park and you'd go out on the other side and the parking would be in the middle there.
And again, this is this is very very same footprint as Nick next park, which is kind of what Nick Park does. You come in, right, >> make the loop, >> but they have a whole lot of parking. Well, hopefully, >> right? If you open up all that green space and you you design it, right?
Well, one one of the biggest problems what we need to determine first if you want to do that is dredging. This is all grass area out here, >> right? >> And this here belongs to somebody according to this and uh >> that that's belongs to us.
>> I don't see the state dredging through grass wetlands. I just don't see them doing it. Well, again, the whole the whole purpose if we were to look at would be a local launch that could be used at different tide levels. It if obviously when the low tide was there,
you you would be able to use it, >> but during the higher tides or whatever, you would. And once we had the facility, then we could petition to get some state money to make that more of a deep water out there. >> If you make all this parking out here, whatever, which you can't do,
you're going to eliminate parking. People use this park now, >> right? >> You can see Yes. >> 20 cars out there on a weekend. >> Well, the one you have there now has 15. So, >> like I said, I thought it would be cool. I'm just thinking practicality. I'm not sure if the state is going to dredge
that or anybody will because they do a a grass survey on that that >> Well, we're we're they're surveying it right in this now. Well, this here they're they're looking at this, but they'd have to continue out and that's the problem of them going We'll see what they say. But I don't see I looked at
this dredging and and because of the the grass beds that are out there, they're not going to dig up grass beds. And anywhere you go out here to get the deeper water, you have to grass. Now, if you want to like kayak launching, canoe launching, that would be awesome. That
would be that would be well they have I know they have that the other park but this would be great to have that here >> and and that's what people are doing by the way. They're they're launching their kayaks. They're they're fishing from the banks. That's I mean that's what they're they're doing down there. Not they're not playing in the playground, right? >> I mean you may have they haven't played in the playground for a long time,
>> right? And I'm not >> the waterfront park is for that. But if you have if you have pavilions out there and maybe a small playground that's fine. What a lot of people have talked about and I and gave me some great ideas. She just gave me a great idea
tonight, too, is right over here in this corner, you could put a big uh observation platform and you could build it up and make it look like the still house. So, you'd have like a pavilion to look like a stilt house and you could
have another you'd have stairs and you have another level on the roof of that for another observation deck on top of that. Mhm. >> So you'd have like a stilt house torped sort of observation deck with another observation deck on top of it. And that
would be a photogenic moment for a lot of people. A lot of people would use that. They use the park now. They'd even use it more then. Um I think that would be better utilized. Um >> you might even put that out a little bit into the because it's going to be on stilts anyway. >> But on stilts you could put it out here.
>> You have to put out a little bit off the lot. You free up your space in park too. I'm I'm I I mean having more boat access for residents or for whoever you're limited there. It's just so small. >> Well, limited. Keep in mind and you guys keep coming back. It's not deep water. Not deep water. There's a there's a lot
of launches that you can do that you don't need deep water and that's kayaks and all that and jet ski >> boats and all that. And if you give a place that you can again you can put a sign down the other said if you if you draft less than this please go down to our >> better facility to get you out closer.
You don't have to go down the river. You could >> when I was younger, I had a 14oot johnboat. I could tow it behind my car or whatever. And I took that thing. I took it down to Fred Hard Park. I parked on the side road. Me and my friend lifted it off and put it in the water. So, you can put boats in the water a lot of different places. You can do that
here. You can do that with kayaks, but you're going to have a a guy with a 25 foot open fisherman. He's not going he's not going to go anywhere out there. >> No. >> And if he goes high tide, he can only come back at high tide, right? >> That's not as Okay, high tide launcher. Well, we're going to have to camp out
till the tide comes back in to get it out. >> But again, you know that go you know what launches you go to because of those and you could you would have to post this. This is not your launch. >> If we if we make this fully utilized for small craft,
>> kayaks, paddle boats, crays, >> that's fine. >> But we have to make it limited. And if you're going to limit it, then why put all this over here? put pavilions over here or something and have that big, like I said, you could put this house out here on the water a little bit
farther or observation deck of some kind. But I was wondering also if we put this project together, I think Andy and and S can get an idea what something like this would cost and it's something
that we could also present to the state that this is our plan for the future. >> And I want to impress them. I want them to know we got our together and we're we're putting something together for the city. We're not it's not on the cuff. This is what we're planning to do. >> Yeah.
>> And I think these like Brad Joerger >> and the guys up there that live in this area, I think they would be very I know the county would be impressed. I think they'd be impressed. >> If you're adding water access, I can tell you there's a lot of people be interested. >> Absolutely. So, if you want to have a workshop on what to do with this or if
you have some ideas, I think if we could just work, we know kind of what you want to do with the boat ramp. We kind of know what that costs. Get an idea of what we need to do to put an observation deck. If you want to make it look something like a still home, which they were talking about, that would be a destination in itself,
>> right? >> You want to you want to visit the still homes, come out to Brad Park. You'll see just what they are and look at the view. >> Right. No, I I like the the observation tower aspect of it. >> I don't think it'd be a huge expense. I know they built that still house up for like,000, but that's their buddies doing
it, but >> I'd like to see what it would cost. >> Yep. No, I think it uh it'd be a great fit for out there. So, >> awesome. >> That's it for tonight. Oh, one thing.
The firehouse. We need to determine where we're going to put that thing. >> You said that already. We're going to wait till the 12. >> Wait till then. Okay. >> Don't pick on me. I'm just kidding. You do that every night. I ain't coming to you. While we're talking about Brashen
Park, though, there was a question that came up today that we talked about um the old dock that we had that got loose or whatever. Daryl, uh when Matt was here, they're going to move it over here for the kayak launch stuff, >> but nothing's happened. And so, he was want to know what do we do? And I saw I
told him I'd bring it up tonight about putting that over here for the >> I don't know what kind of shape it's >> talking about Nick's park. >> I don't know. >> How about the floating dock? >> Floating dock and Nicks came loose. I understand. >> It was upside down, but they got it back
in the water there. >> Get rid of that. >> So, it's back on. But put on the pilings. >> If we tear down the pier, the Nicks park, they want to maybe utilize that dock over pressure. I thought there was another one that was that he's got it tied somewhere or something. I don't know if it is. Do you know, Veronica?
>> I I think it's at Waterfront Park. >> Oh, there's one broke away in a storm or whatever and they they they it floated away. They brought it back or whatever. And just to put it somewhere, they were going to put it here to help out with the kayak launches and whatever. And actually, we applied for a grant to get
to coordinate with that an ADA accessible launch for kayaks, but we didn't get approved from the grant. Wasn't >> that So all this stuff should be ADA that I mentioned tonight too. Yes, I I meant to say that. But yeah, >> but that would you know as opposed to
where it's at. If we can maybe get it there and put something there, it might be helpful. We can always move it. So he just need direction on that. >> I just I just like to move that if everybody agrees that Andy and Sal can look into a footprint for that and a
cost. Maybe we can get a preliminary design on something like that. He doesn't have to spend any money. I don't think they do that. Let let us know on that. And then that's something that like I said, we talked to people at the state and county. This is what we're doing. This is what we or what we want to do. And that'll get their attention.
They realize that we're serious about improving the city. >> Well, obviously if we're going to if we're going to do that there with observation tower, boat ramp, and other thing, there needs to be some engineering involved. You know, we can do obviously some conceptual models or whatever, but if maybe by a census get a
cost on what it would do to do the engineering of that, then we can review that. If it's relatively expensive, we can have them move forward. >> Well, the splash pad companies will have engineering plans for that and a cost that we can present >> and I don't know what the cost is to get that, but if there is a cost, bring it
up the next meeting so we can decide what to do. But I think they have different designs and they can send you the engineering plans and the cost for that if we have the footprint for it, which we do. And then I think that's all we would need to present that this is what we're doing, this is where we're
putting it. um that pretty simple to do that I think. But I I mean I looked at and they had cost in it and they had designs and you can call the company and they would send you the designs and everything if if you want them to move forward with it. They tell you exactly
what the cost is and a deposit whatever. So just have that prepared so we can um make something uh I think we can do that ourselves but if we take that and get some help from the county or the state or both. >> Sure. maybe matching funds to do
something like that. I think they'd jump on it. >> Think that the Florida Trust might even have some money for that to improve parks that work again. So, >> I think it should be something nice. >> Yeah. And and you know, we're locked in SCT now because of the the money we used
back we've developed that park. I'll see >> get some more from and they and that's something that I think they would approve with. No problem. >> Okay. Anything else? >> No. Anybody else? Did I get get to
everybody? I start with so you're next. >> Um, Green Key has those deck trails that go through the mangroves. Have you ever been to Green? And >> I thought if we could incorporate one those into one of our parks, that would be really neat. They're really great.
>> Walk right with us through there. Yeah. Walk through there. >> It doesn't have to be that elaborate, but >> yeah. No, I I think if we if we do if we look at Brancher Park, put the plan together, talk about observation, talk about boat launch and somehow make that to where it's you walk through there or whatever, that'd be great.
>> Can we clarify what I didn't hear what >> it's a deck trail, excuse me, over at Green Key Park in Newport Richie. >> It's like a decking that you walk through. >> It goes through the mangrove. So, you're just >> touring through the mangroves. Pretty neat. >> Runs over the mangrove.
They Yeah, they >> they bunch of mangroves and they cut a little >> It's an observation trail. >> Really is neat. Yeah. >> But I would put cameras on it because I've been on some of the others and people just throw trash there like I put cameras there. >> Well, that'd be a good place to
incorporate that in with the lookout. You come down, look out, and do walk around. >> You could have go up to it that way. A walking deck and a little fishing pier added onto it right there. Yeah. >> Yeah. And again, that maximizes the the green space that you have because you can build all that kind of out into the
>> Yep. >> water area. That's that's good idea. And CRA was talking about like wherever we can incorporate a lookout that has a one of the stilt homes like model it after >> I know we don't have that many parks but we would pick the best three if we had
three places or two >> and uh keep the parks looking somewhat uniformed with our still homes and that'd be kind of cool. >> Well, I like that. Good idea. I wanted to reassure the finance director that none of this would cost very much money. [Music]
>> I I saw I saw him twitch and track. Oh my gosh. He was twitching. >> Council Burke. Is that what he had? Sorry. >> Oh, good. >> Cur Vice Mayor. Mayor, sorry. Vice chair. Mayor. >> Vice Chair. Mayor.
>> Yeah. Um I'm excited that we're all moving coly together. We're making decisions. Things are happening. We're not We're not stagnant. I'm excited about that. >> Cool. I don't have anything else. Okay. >> Can I ask? >> Sure. >> Uh sorry to interject, but okay.
>> While I'm while I'm in the uh land acquisition business, um I checked and it's legal. Uh utilities improvement. Utilities is a valid use of CRA funds and we don't have other funding. So, I was I could look into purchasing land
for the new water plant. Um, uh, with the council's blessing, I could at least investigate because there's a one property really that would do it. Uh, and that they're they're interested in selling, but I would need to negotiate.
>> I thought, didn't we already do that? >> We were going to ask for that. I thought by consensus we >> itward that's what that's why you got the real estate. >> I've got a green light to uh for that property. >> Yep. Yes. I mean honestly we we've got
to we we're going to have to build a water plant somewhere and so we need property for that for sure. So definitely >> Okay. So I'll uh I'll also continue with that. I've got an offer right now that I'd like to counter offer but I wanted to make sure I had >> Okay. >> We're also looking a place to burn
rubbage too. Remember >> burn rubbage. burn brush. >> Yeah, >> look on that. >> Um, >> I know they were working on it. >> There there's an issue. You have to be thousand feet apart in all directions and there's a house less than 1,000 ft. So, we're looking at we could relocate
it, but I think we'd have to chop some trees down to So, can I more time to get back? >> Fire said they were going to measure that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I sent Jerry home, so I'm not sure, but I'll get that. >> Okay. Anything else?
Motion to second. Motion second. All in favor say by saying I. I. Nice. [Music]