Show your driveway. receiver nation board meeting Tuesday, December 9th, 2025 like to invite several leader Fields for May, please. >> Father, we just want to thank you. We ask for wisdom for the stuff that's on
the agenda tonight with the community redevelopment. So, we know that this is a place where we're growing and that there's going to be a lot of development, redevelopment. So just let us look at the needs of the people and the business and what they need and
bring in the developers and everything we need from every part of it from land development to business to housing. And we just thank you that we could do it together with the wisdom that you give us through the council for the city in
Jesus name. Amen. algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, liberty and justice for all, please.
>> Chairman John Eric Hoover >> here. >> Vice Chairman Chris Mayer >> here. >> Member Robert Huard >> here. >> Member Lisa Burke >> here. Member Christine Sullivan >> here. >> City attorney Nancy Meyer here. City manager Andrew Butterfield
>> here. Thank you. Okay, we have no board minutes. So, we're going to move to comments from the general public and open up general comments. Any public comment? I have no signups. Okay, seeing none, bring it back to comments from city manager. Pastor Mr. Butterfield for his comments. >> Thanks, Mr. Mayor. Um, I was tasked uh
to get the cost of what it would take to do appraisals on properties as we do acquisition attempts. We got three back. One was a expensive outlier. The other two were $3,2700 a piece. So, uh, I'll go about issuing
some appraisal requests. >> Oh, say that again. I missed that. >> Appraisals for acquisition. >> There's several properties we need to try acquire for the water plan and then look at others. Uh, it's been requested to look at the one the Billy Kitas property.
>> Uh, $2,700 and $3,000 for the two lowest. >> Okay. So >> clarification, how much was the water plant appraisal run? >> Uh we asked for uh several properties from several we have a agent that's
requesting bid. So we got one for over 9,000. So one for 3,000 and one for 2,700. S can back me up on my math. Uh there's my memory fails, but that would be the cost of each appraisal >> for the three to do this property. >> Yeah, for that one. But as far as the
water property, I don't have that information as far as what that >> Oh, you have that? >> I don't have that. >> I might have misunderstood, but I think they do any of our the properties uh for that fee. We haven't had an appraisal on
the potential water uh plant site, have we? >> They were preparing that for us, but I I I wasn't in direct conversation with that company. Uh the city manager was, so I don't have that information with me right now. Um, but we have the three the the three quotes for the new piece of
property. Um, I have we have those, but I don't have the water plan uh water plant information. >> So, you clarify new piece of property for me. >> The one on the corner of the one across from Nicks Park. >> Okay. >> The uh the bait shop, there's actually three parcels. So, those are the ones
that'll be appraised. >> So, it be for all three parcels be 2700 or 2,700 per parcel? >> From what we've read, it's 27 for all three because because that's what's listed. Um the quote is that there they had the um they had the ID numbers for all three parcels and it was 2,700.
>> One came back $9,000 and the other ones went too. >> Yeah. One was just very high. >> $9,000 is >> Yeah. $3,000 is actually high for a appraisal. But since you have three pieces of property, $3,000 would be a normal about $1,000 piece of property appraisal. They're just going out there and grabbing comps and bringing them in
and drawing up. >> Uh so I've misspoke. Let me get back to you on the water plant property next meeting or >> that was property, right? >> No, >> no, those are those are the three quotes for the the the piece of property across from next park. >> The water plant property is one back here.
>> Oh, he said I heard waterfront >> water. >> Water plant cuz I thought that's what you asked. I thought you asked for a water plant. >> I don't have that right now. >> I mean the water plant property. Chris thought it was >> the what plan property is already under
contract or not yet? >> It's not. >> We're still working on that, >> sir. >> Uh so, uh just also uh and Derek can speak to this. he tracked along this morning the county commission met and they discussed today uh commissioner
Mariano pulled it off the agenda for discussion uh at first and there was some discussion about uh updating CRA maps to ensure that uh uh properties that aren't really uh shouldn't really
be in the CRA map are there. So, we thought we'd do some self assessing making sure that uh we could remove or add properties as necessary in the coming so that next year when uh the same thing comes up at the county there's no questions. Chair, do you have
anything to add to that? I state that. Right. >> Just at today's meeting the county commission they pulled uh C2. It was the approval for the tip transfer for all the CRAAS and they pulled it to discuss it. It sounds like they want to do a field trip to the CRAAS to see what the
stolen blight conditions are. That was the first thing. And the second thing is they seem they will be asking for a more formal presentation to them. Although by law we just required to put our annual report online. They may request a presentation which won't be a big deal.
That annual reports usually due by end of March each year. So that ask may come to me. >> Thanks. And then lastly, uh you should find sometime this week, we'll email everybody the wayfinding update. Uh
we're expecting to see some of the monument ideas for uh the signage and we'll get that to you and then that'll be addressed formally by the uh board uh Derek at the first uh a meeting in January. Correct.
getting the idea was to provide you probably next couple days what we get from them. So you kind of chew on it for a month and give us some feedback and then hopefully formally adopt or or switch up you know their their examples by the January meeting.
>> Thanks. That's all I have. >> Okay. >> Okay. Next up is board business item number one general construction park fence replacement. I'll pass that to Mr. Butterfield for deduction. >> Yes sir. We went out for bid and that was the best bid that came back for the fence replacement along the is that
along the east side of the property and uh the uh we got three bids and that was the the best bid. Again, one was wildly higher than the other almost double the other two and the other two are very close. We went with the lowest bidder.
the um and I noticed the three different quotes they all kind of had three different flavors of what they were going to put up. Um did we not when we put this out to bid we did not specific on you know we need
x number of feet on this side x number of feet gate because everybody was a little bit different on what they were providing. >> The only variation was whether you know depending on the size. So I actually went out with each of them to the site to do a site visit. So we we walked the site, we told them what we wanted, which was a fence similar to exactly actually
like far from park. The only difference was uh the the size that they gave. I suggested that we open it up a little bit because there was some damage from vehicles hitting the post and so uh some of them did do that. The the dimensions were exactly the same though >> or at least should have been when we
discussed it with each of the contractors. And I, you know, I went over there to take a look at kind of what we had. Um, obviously 21,000 even at the lowest bid is a lot of money for uh what a little
bit of fence is needed over there. Um there's um and I guess I have questions. This probably maybe legal question too. So along the western side of the park, the the residential home has a vinyl fence that pretty much goes all the way
down to the waterfront. Relatively new. Um, and our fence obviously is right up against that what we have now, you know, being a park, do we? Because when you put a fence next to a fence, obviously stuff grows up between it and all that. And since it's a vinyl fence,
which is I even question how it was even approved all the way back cuz it should have been >> that fence actually is not permitted. When I looked to go see what was going on with that because I was trying to figure out a survey. I found a survey from 1982 uh showing that chain link is ours, but that fence was never permitted
to which makes sense because it's it's not it's 6 foot all the way back to the water almost which is >> I talked to the building official and and our fence because it's open space and it's open can go 6 foot all the way to the seaw wall for ours. We also thought that by by having another fence
there it might protect the residential fence from accidental bumping by cars since there is a parking lot there and it keeps with the aesthetic. you know, we're trying to keep the same aesthetic throughout all the parts and so who's to say they don't take that vinyl face down at all. >> Yeah.
>> So, there was that. So, um what's that, Chris? >> Um and just to clarify, so we're not going to do anything. We just attached to the concrete wall. >> Correct. Yeah. But I can see it. Okay. Go ahead, Chris.
>> Um I also drove over to the park. I pushed the green button and I drove over to the Just get it straight, Ashley. Okay. >> Well, yeah, exactly. Um
I mean, the white fence is up, right? If we're not going to make them take down the white fence, which I'm not trying to force them to take it down, it does block a lot of view of the waterfront there for the park. Um, and so, um, I would think if we're not going to make them take it down, that we don't fence
up next to it because there's nothing worse than putting two fences 12 inches apart from one another. You can't maintain it. You can't get in there, clean it up, dog get caught up in there, all kinds of crazy stuff. And that's probably, you know, when you start cutting that out of it and and and you really only have a little bit of extra
vents there, you probably cut that job in half almost um for the cost of it. So, I uh I would not be okay with spending $21,000 to put black picket fence down both sides of that place. We have the wall on the one side, which is awesome. It's going to be great. You
have a beautiful white fence on the other side, and if they ever decide to take it down, then we'll put up our black fence then, but I think we just hold our money until then. And you don't want to double fence up. It's just not a a good look. It's kind of a It's almost like a an inner city kind of getter look. You know what I mean? So, I would
say no to that. Grant Nancy, what's your thought on that situation with a residential fence alongside the park and not having something there? Any issues or >> Well, I think I think Derek hit on I think the is issue could be if you don't
have your own fence like what's being proposed, I'm not saying you should or shouldn't do that. If there's damage to their fence from people in your park, they're probably going to be coming to you to repair it. >> Well, they have to drive up off the >> on the grass, but it's not like it's right. that far away and they'd have to
literally have a a 70. >> I mean, it's there. You're not asking them to put it there. You're not asking them to maintain it for you. It's theirs. They do what they want with it. You may end up, like you said, at some at some point they take it down. They stop taking care of it. If there's not a permit, that's another conversation. That's up to the building official what
next step should be taken. Um, but you may, you know, later have to come back and and address it if it it's not there and it doesn't look the way you want it to. >> It's clean. They maintain it. It's not dirty. It's not moldy. It's white. I think it you put parking curbs in there. >> Well, put parking curb after there's already a curb there.
>> There's a curb. So, they can't pull into the fence. >> Yeah. >> Right. So, yeah, I think it's a waste of money. Metal fencing's gone up 75% over past year. That's why it's so expensive. It's just ridiculous. But you only need it on one side. There's no reason for double fencing. Now, if they decide to
take down that fence, >> we can address it at that >> easy enough to go in there and put up >> at that time, right? But now, no. >> For clarification, there isn't a security issue. So, their six foot fence does end uh about 30 feet from the water line. And I actually went over and talked to the neighbors. They're having
uh people just jump their small fence >> uh and and actually found them on their dock. And actually, I was out there. We had people jumping and going the other direction. So, we will have to try to figure out piece probably. We'll have to maybe do the six foot from from the corner of
their white fence out to the water to give them security and keep it consistent. Um, you say add white fence to the water. >> Well, if we're keeping consistent with our fence type, we would come basically
come over with the black. You have the white and then not sure if black or white from from there onto the water. >> I think they have some kind of black fence there. Now it's >> it's a it's a it's a chain link that they have quite a bit of different
things on there trying to block even but I think there is actually some black posted type almost like what we're proposing >> if I'm if I'm correct when you get close to the water you have a three foot maximum height >> on four foot okay so you can't do six
foot so we could come off that white fence there with a 4 foot black fence >> I think official it had to do with the use and it's not a res one. It's a It's an open space. So, I think that was the difference is that because of that, it's not res one. We were allowed to go six
all the way. >> Okay. >> So, we could actually extend that fence, that white fence to close it in. >> I think we want to do that, though. You're blocking off the view for the people that are going out there to sit in their chairs and look at the water.
You You're knocking off half the bayou there. So, I think you just leave it. >> Whatever we put in front, put it back. Absolutely. And that way if we ever have to fill in the gap, we'll just run between the two things and go with it, you know. Um, if you're worried about people jumping the fence behind the neighbor's yard, I find that highly
unlike unlikely, you know. Um, so I don't know that we have to go with a sixoot fence over there. I think you just go with a 4ft fence on the end to take it out to where the end of the seaw wall is and just stop it right there. If somebody wants to get in there, they can jump the fence on the front side. They can go right over the fence and go in there. Um, this is just designed to keep
dogs out of people's yards and vice versa, you know, but trying to force people to stay out of there. I mean, you could barbwire and everything. You're still not going to keep people out of if they really want to get in there. >> So, I think we go back to fish and um get some quotes on West Fencing for the
project. Um procedure- wise do we can we do we go out to bid reject all bids go out to bid again with different set of criteria or >> these are not bids these are open quotes >> okay >> so we just call up and say here you're
changing scope give us update >> what's an open quote mean how's that hand >> below 25,000 >> which means you just pick up the phone call the phone book say hey I need you to give me a quote for this job >> yes >> is that open to anybody to give you an estimate
It's whoever you call, right? You just It's whoever you reach out to. It's not like a notification, right? >> Yeah. There's not Yeah, there's no no specific list. >> They reach out to few fence compan vendors for everything. When I put up fence at my house, I found fencing to be gravely different in pricing, you know,
from different companies. Um, so, and Bob said that fencing went up 75%. You said >> at least. It depends. Sometimes more. Yeah. for the aluminum fencing, >> metal, metal buildings, metal fencing. Yes, 100% in some places.
>> The other question is, is this outside of scope of what utilities could probably do, you think? >> Yes. >> And the the vinyl is higher than the metal, so they won't be jumping it. I mean, you can put a vinyl fence in there. >> They're not going to jump that six foot vinyl fence. It's too hard to get over
>> the metal fence. No, they it's just I mean the same metal fence we have down at the waterfront park is the same thing they're going to use over there. >> It's about five foot high then. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That's probably six foot high. What do you think >> at waterfront? >> It's probably six. >> I think it's probably six close to it.
>> And that's what was in these quotes, right? Six foot high. So, if we could could we go back up for another estimate to include just the part from the white fence around to the gate and then the gate and then over to this the concrete wall and then at the
end of the white fence from there to the water just that whatever that 25 or 30 ft is that >> and and so that 30t clarification 6 foot or 4 foot okay so we're doing six front around to the vinyl skip the vinyl come
back do four to Yeah. Keep keep the visual in it. Yeah. >> Well, it's it's open. So, does it matter being 4 foot or 6 foot? >> It it butts up to your neighbor to our home. >> All the rest of this fence going to be six foot. So, and think about this. If we if they take that fence down and we
need to fix that, are we going to go to 4 foot? >> I'm just making when you get close to the water to keep the view in there, you don't need to >> you're seeing through the fence >> because it's it's a it's aluminum like you can see in our park now park. So I just don't know if you need to go all
that six foot when you get across the water. But whatever you guys want to do with that. >> It's already six foot. I'm just thinking and I guess if we're if we're already going to piece it in, if we're looking at potentially someday, we may need to come back and and make that connection. Do we need to I'm okay with that, Eric. >> I'm fine with that.
>> Keep it six foot or go to 4 foot. So it's really a future thing. If you think you're going to go to 4 foot for the rest of the way, then >> I was just thinking close to the water. It's nice to be less intrusive. doesn't look so doesn't look like a prison yard kind of, you know, it's not so Yeah.
>> Okay. >> I mean, argue with him. So, whatever. >> Can we open it up both ways that they give us quotes on four and six and then we look at it from there? >> It's probably going to be the same price for four or six. Really, at the end of the day, those sections are probably The
six was probably cheaper because it's more common, you know. >> Probably true. Yeah. might be actually cheaper. So, we'll just come back to them and remove omit the port of the >> They say how big you say a gap is uh from Yeah. From there to the seaw wall
about 30 ft. Yeah. >> The same thing. I don't think it's 30 ft. >> It says 3 ft water wing. I don't know what that mean. >> So, a 3ft water wing kind of juts out a little bit past the seaw wall as well again for security. So, no one's coming up and around. They did. They talked me
quite a bit about security problems. >> Swing around the end of the pole into the >> Yeah, you have to basically jump the water around it. Doesn't go out too far, but Yeah. >> I mean, at that point there, they can come down the whole open yard on the left there. Walk across the sand and come in this way here, too. >> Yeah.
>> Right. There's a whole open yard next door for sale. No house on it. Just wide open all the way. >> After I was there, there were some people from the park there, too. >> Yeah. See, they they say three foot water wing. So, so same same height three foot >> three foot beyond the shore.
>> Yeah. Beyond. So, beyond beyond your seaw wall, another three feet. >> Oh, three foot. Yeah. Keep So, you can't just kind of hug around on the seaw wall. You have to really get out. >> And that's kind of where I'm weirding out a little bit because when you have six feet of aluminum fence hanging three feet over the seaw wall, it looks kind
of funny. What are your thoughts, Bob? >> I see it a lot because people swing around to get on other people's property. Well, if you swing around on that aluminum fence, it's probably going to fall off and you're going to fall in the water. >> Yeah, he might. That's a risk you take. But I I' I'd go around my neighbors. I go help him on his on his dock. He's got
a problem over there. If I need to tie his boat off or something, I swing over there and help him out and he's done the same thing for me. But if you got that situation and you got kids down there and then knock a ball into the guy's property, they're going to find a way to get over and get it. >> And you got remember this a public park and so you're going to have people
there. The residents that live right next to that don't want people in the park coming into their yard. So, let's >> But it's Yeah, I mean, you have maybe two feet something there just so they can't swing around it on low tide, but it's I don't know. It's not something that's going to
happen very often. People want to get over the find a way to do it anyway. So, I've got one that's probably 12 to 15 inches hanging over it and you can't easil get around that. That's a deterrent. That's all you need. >> More than more than what you need. I don't know if you need three feet hanging out.
>> I don't think you need three feet. No. >> Yeah. Yeah, just I would just say minimum >> needed to >> 20 in 18 20 in. Yeah. >> So high in that section and go out >> as 20 in little as possible. As little as possible to keep people from swinging
around whatever technically looks good around 20 in. Yeah. >> As long as your arm that's how long it has to be. >> We're not farm you're swinging around. >> Just reasonable. >> I just wanted to address the neighbor was complaining. people were getting on the dock. So, I just wanted to address
try to address that with them. >> Yeah, >> Derek, we just figured we need some help building the fence, buddy. That's >> We all wanted to jump in and help. >> All right. So, we can table that, I guess, until they come back with a motion to table. Motion to table.
>> Second. I got motion second. Any further discussion and public comment? See, I put a vote on favor say I. >> I oppose. The motion carries. That's all board business. Next up is old business. Is there any old business discuss?
>> Just any um the latest on US 19 and Grand. >> Oh, good. >> Um I just sent an email today to the city manager. Um the give me a second. I can pull that up. They have made the the engineer has made
the changes for FDOT and has sent has sent those changes back and they're preparing to um you know hopefully you know reissue the permit. If you give me a second I'll give you the specifics of that. >> One thing to think about too on that because that's one of our appropriations
um and we won't we won't be able to spend start anything if we want to take advantage of that appropriation. So obviously this all preliminary stuff doesn't matter. U but once we do this go out to bid or whatever um we'll have to
make a decision. Do we want to move forward with it and and lose some of the appropriation money if they approve it. So just keep that in mind because you can't say well we spent x number of dollars towards that. It didn't work that way. It's once you get the appropriation for it then you start to
work. >> We'd have to wait till >> June or July 1st. >> Uh July 1. July 1st is 300k. So >> yeah. >> Yeah. So >> I think a lot of people don't want to wait on that. >> Well, if they if they're going to save 300 grand,
>> I know, but we've been saying for a year it's coming. It's coming. >> I I agree. >> I mean, that's one thing that gets brought up to me all the time. >> Yeah. >> And we can do that. Just keep in mind that's one of our appropriations core requests. >> So, um, the engineer emailed me. is that
basically um FTO has commented they they requested additional drainage calculations a grading plan um and authorization from the city which they did receive. Uh they have the the engineer has calculated the pre and post impervious areas um contributing to the storm system and developed a primary
grading plan. Uh they intend to discuss the updated calculations and plans with FDOT and reissue the permit application within the next week and that's where I am at right now. And then once you go to bid, >> it's 30 days. >> It is 30 days. Construction is not going to be an issue. It's just getting this
permit from FDOT, >> right? >> Every time every time the engineer >> brings brings it back to the table, they creates more comments and wants something else. We didn't, you know, they didn't ask for they didn't ask for drainage calculation before or a gradient plan. Now they're asking for
that. >> So they the engineer has gone back and and issued those things to them. So now we're we're basic DOT reviewing this and and providing us with this permit once we have the permit going out to bid is not a problem. So realistically just for
your knowledge. So session starts in January, right? And so we'll know if we're going to have that appropriation in the budget for say relatively early in the year probably before we'd be able to even start the project because it's going to take 30, let's say we get that done. Let's say it goes out to bid 1 of
January or whatever. it's going to be February before we review those bids. Um, we're kind of gonna know if we're going to get the money or not. So, we'll definitely know if we're not in there and then we can move forward with it. But, if we're in the mix of just waiting on the governor's signature and it it goes through, we'd know that even well
before that. It's just we couldn't spend until July 1. But, we know that the money is ours. So, we'll have we'll have good understanding of where we're at in that appropriation process. >> Appropriate. Can you just go ahead and do it and then wait for the money to come? it you can't spend it until July 1st.
>> Well, we also plan I mean we we planned on using this using CRA dollars initially. Yes. State appropriation was just a was just a way of us not spending the CRA dollars on something else. >> So yeah. So this basically helps us both ways either one way or the other. We do have the money to go forward with the project. It's just we wanted to make it
a state appropriate project so we can get the you know funds from somewhere else. >> That's just something everybody's >> Yeah. No way. >> I've wanted it done before the end of this year. So, it's just been a this has taken much longer than any of us anticipated. But once again, I you know,
he he has talked to the secretary uh from FDOT, you know, and the secretary has been back and forth with us. The staff from FDOT has been back and forth. The engineers been has has complied. So, it's not like it's not like someone is holding, you know, like holding the ball and waiting. The only one basically holding the ball is is getting that
permit signed off by them. I'm saying when it comes to US19, >> they're not going to cut any corners. You know, >> I always ask you, but just >> No, it's fine. And and before I before I come to this meeting, I get an update from our engineer about what is going on so I can prepare that because I
understand how long this project has been waiting on. And if if if this was if we were waiting on anything else, I would I tell council and the city manager like what's going on. But I'm basically at the mercy of getting this permit issued before we can go out to bid. I can't go out to bid without the permit. That's gonna be the the first
thing anyone's anyone's gonna ask for permit. >> It's going to be done next year whether we pay for it or state pays for it. So >> I know but like you said we everybody would be done this year. >> Yeah. >> So it's it's it's move
>> I had can I just back up just one slide? >> Yeah. >> Can I go back to the fence? >> Sure. >> Okay. I guess it's technically old business now, right? It's getting old as we speak. I'm just thinking I don't know how much of this
21 grand they were charging us is for tearing down the old fence, but our guys have all the stuff to roll in there in a matter of like couple hours. Like pop all that stuff out of the ground, throw it in the truck, and take it to the dump. And we don't have to pay somebody to go in there because the guys who install that fence are different from the guys who tear it
down. Now they got two crews going in there. Maybe we're spending a lot more. >> That we can do. >> Well, that's what I was thinking. >> We'll take we'll we'll we'll incorporate that. I think that's a great idea. >> We'll take care of that part. We'll let them know. >> And the we also took out like the finishing touches of fixing the rock and all that. We told them, "Don't worry
about that." So, that part's already handled. >> When you pop it out of the ground, you pull the concrete with you, throw it in the back of the truck, right? And just grade it over a little bit with a little hand. I'm just >> make sense. >> I think that'll save us about five grand. You know,
>> 177 feet of demo tear down fence. So, I bet you they that's a pretty good price for that. Anyway, I want to save anywhere we can because we're always up here nodding our heads. Yep, let's spend it. Yep, let's do it. And I'm like, well, hold on. Let's just try to spend it wisely. Okay. >> Thank Thank you for letting me back up on that.
>> Anytime. Any other old business? >> Okay, seeing none, I'll go comments from board. Start uh with Councilwoman Burke or member Burke. Sorry. >> No, I had my question. >> Vice Chair, mayor, >> uh I had I'm all fenced out. I'm good. Member Hers >> I'm done for
>> member Sullivan >> I'm done as well looking for a motion >> motion to adjurnn second all in favor say by saying I take