meeting. Um, this is a regular monthly meeting of the Princeton Historic Preservation Commission being held in person on October 20th, 2025 at 5:00 p.m. in the main meeting room of the Municipal Building at 400 Witherspoon
Street, Princeton, New Jersey. Pursuant to section 13 of the open public meetings act, adequate notice of the time and place and agenda of this meeting has been noticed by transmitting a copy to the Princeton packet, town topics, the times, tranonian, and by
filing a copy with the clerk of Princeton and has been posted to the municipal municipal website um www.princetonj.gov/meings GV/meings and posted on the official Bulletin board at the Princeton Municipal
Complex, 400 Witherspoon Street, Princeton, New Jersey. Um, Elizabeth, do you want to take the role? >> Yes. Miss Satderfield >> here. >> Mr. Shaskin, >> here. >> Miss Howard.
>> Mr. Shore >> here. >> Miss Freriedman >> here. >> Miss Croll >> here. Miss Maria >> and Chair Capazolei >> here. All right. Thank you everyone for
coming. Um my first announcement is that we are extremely saddened by the passing of our colleague Elrich Endersby um last week. and we will be um holding
comments um after the applications during public comment to give uh remembrances um about Elrich. So, thank you. Um we have two sets of minutes uh February 3rd,
2025. Uh, are there changes or comments to the minutes? Um, and if there are no changes, would someone like to move approval?
>> All right. Thanks, Roger. Is there a second? >> What? Oh, David seconds. >> I don't know about you. Oh, February 3rd. I think you were. Let's see. See.
Um, Elizabeth, do you have the list of who was here February 3rd? >> Oh, I'm sorry, Madam Chair. I don't have that printed out. >> Yeah. >> Does anyone recall being at that that February 3rd meeting? >> Uh
Ian, do you have a copy of that at hand so you could see who >> Thank you. >> Okay. >> February 3rd it was uh Capazolei, Satderfield, Freriedman, Shir Shatskin, and Howard. >> Okay. All right. Thank you. All right.
So David seconds. >> Um all in favor please say I. >> I opposed. Motion carried. Um the minutes from July 21st, 2025.
>> Um these were carried from the August meeting. Um >> present were Shore Capazoli, Endersby, Freriedman, Satderfield and Koshan Novakova. Okay, thanks. Is there a motion? Are
there any changes to the minutes? And if not, further changes. And if not, would someone like to move approval? >> Okay. Thanks, David. Is there a second? I think I saw Charlotte. Okay.
>> Oh, Shirley. Okay. All in favor, please say I. I. opposed. Motion carried. Thank you. All right, we're going to move on to the applications for the Princeton
Theological Seminary. It's um 44 Mercer, 15 to 17 Alexander Street, 19 Alexander Street, 2527 Alexander Street, 29 Alexander Street, and 31 Alexander Street. So, Elizabeth's going to start
off with a summary and then I'll turn it over to the applicant for their presentation. Thank you. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. Uh the way that I'd like to approach this is um just generally talk about the
six properties of the seminary as you had mentioned 1517 1925 27 2931 Alexander and 44 Mercer Street. Uh in the reports um I carried over a lot of the historic information from the review
that the applicant had received in 2024 when they had come in for exterior building improvements. And that's really just to let some of the members who weren't here in that time uh just have a little knowledge of the history of the properties in addition to kind of
refresh the HPC's memory on them. Um, and what I'll do is I'll identify the uh lot in blocks and the addresses just for the record. So 1517 Alexander is block 40.01, lot 7, zone R3. Sorry, I don't
need the zone. Um 19 Alexander is block 40.01 lot 8 2527 Alexander is block 40.01 01 lot 9.
31 Alexander is block 40.01 lot 11. Uh 29 Alexander is block 40.01 lot 10 and 44 Mercer is block 40.01 lot 5. Um
so these six properties um many of which are Steman houses um as mentioned it was discussed at the special meetings in 2024 and um these all are coming in for
landscape and hardscape improvements. Um many of them talk about the uh replacement of the driveway apron in addition to the sidewalk that's part of the driveway. Uh talks about walkway
improvements um landing for sidewalks, landscape, um some retaining wall, fences, wood and um aluminum um lighting as well. Um, so
I think that uh just to kind of highlight them, the change of material for blue stone colored concrete for the step landings in addition to the the driveway above the apron of the
driveway. Um, location of new trees in front of houses were some of the comments that came up whether it was appropriate to have it in front of the houses directly to block the view of historic buildings. whe whether it should be set to the side or perhaps replaced with something that might not
be as dense. um talked about um in one of the applications that they're looking to widen the sidewalk. One which is on the side of the property going along the side uh in addition to widening
steps uh to uh allow for um installation of new railings and also so uh also for HBC to consider for the two fences. one which is the wood fencing which is
most of the uh proposed installation is going to be the style that's on 44 Mercer which is on the corner of Mercer and Alexander and the other one is for the approval for aluminum fencing. Um
what else do I hear have here? and also um uh also for the HBC to address the landscape violations where vegetation was removed without coming before the historic preservation office to see if it needs to come for review or not. Um
and there is another property which is 2931 where the applicant has proposed some path lighting and some um reflected not but mirrored landscape on both the properties that are joining each other.
And the reason for the lighting is uh the applicant indicates that their um their uh seminary community in addition to the neighbors use that as a throughway to get to the campus and back to the neighborhood. So
that's something that HBC should look at and see if they find that appropriate or not. So those are just kind of the highlights of that. I just wanted to bring that up for HPC to review. And again, this is in the Mercer Hill historic district. This is type two, which is anything visible from the p
public right away. There's no paint involved here, so we don't have to address that. Um, I'd like to turn it over to the applicant, so he can kind of address some of the comments that were made in the reports and then maybe go back to those comments and go um sight by sight to address them as well. Thank
you. >> Oh, thank you. Okay. Hi, Ryan. >> Uh, thank you, Elizabeth. Um, Madam Chair, members of the board, uh, Ryan Kennedy from Stevenson Lee here for the applicant Princeton Theological Seminary. Um to my left, your right, we have our landscape architect. I'll have her introduce herself in a second. We
may not need them. But behind me, we also have um the uh vice president for facilities for the seminary as well as our actual building architect if if needed, but not expecting to need them um necessarily on our presentation. Um,
as Miss Kim said, um, we have six properties that many of you are familiar with from last, uh, I guess not last summer so much as the year before, 2024, um, for the, uh, approvals, um, for, uh, the upgrades to the actual buildings
themselves. Um, and we're here tonight uh for uh landscaping and hardscaping. As Miss Kim said, the largest pieces of which um are the aprons and the uh sidewalks adjacent to the aprons where
the driveways cross the slate sidewalks here. Uh the applicant is proposing a colored concrete and to reuse the slates elsewhere where they can be repaired. Um but we'll we'll take a walk through the neighborhood and the conditions and um hope you'll agree with our u proposal to
replace them with something sturdier. They're just unfortunately not holding up well. Uh the balance of this um application then moving to heartscape. We do have uh two uh stairs to be replaced. Um I'll say there confusion is not the right word, but we did have two
options um in the proposal. One for a concrete stairs and then one that could be clad with with stone. Um both are provided as um as as possibilities for for the board to help us uh consider. Most of the reasoning for those
improvements are the unfortunate u go to safety and code um railings where they should be there um uneven stair treads and and risers um you know to um bring up to code for safety purposes. Um looking forward to the discussion about the retaining wall. Um, a lot of effort
went into thinking about how to restore that. Um, and certainly interested in in the board's take on whether that should even be there at all. Um, to be honest with you, that wasn't something that crossed our thinking in, you know, to to remove it necessarily as part of the project, but looking for your take
there. Um then and ultimately um the tree replacements and plantings as part of the application and and know finally just to to note again between 29 and 31 there is this we won't call it a shared driveway but but ultimately that is a way uh that the community does use to
get to the you know these are residential style homes but they are part of a uh an institutional use as well and there are some I'll just say some additional considerations in in planning for those that uh we'll we'll talk through um um before we start. Maybe I'll just ask Mara to introduce
herself and um get her credentials out there for you guys. >> Thank you. >> Uh good evening. My name's Mara Baird. >> Before you start, we should swear you in. If you can raise your right hand, we'll swear you in. >> Do you swear that the testimony you're about to give this evening is the whole truth to the best of your knowledge?
>> Yes, I do. >> Thank you. >> Um my name is Mara Baird. Um a landscape architect. I've been practicing for over 40 years. Um most of my work has to do with uh education systems, colleges and
universities in the Philadelphia area. And I've been working I've also done work with um public gardens and I've been working with the seminary for about eight years now on various projects. Um this is the most the most recent. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> Thank you. Um so just from a run of show perspective, I I thought um the way Elizabeth gave the over was very helpful. We have split our um presentation into property by property. So if it's okay we can start I have two slides generally about the neighborhood but then go right into 44. Right.
>> That sounds good. >> All right. Um and um Mr. Angelo um we'll have one if we want to remark it for each one if that's necessary but ultimately is one slide presentation. >> Uh what would I mean Elizabeth? What would you >> if they if they're even marked >> everything is the whole slideshow as one
exhibit or mark each property as an exhibit? probably each one because >> we'll just note which slides pertain to each one. >> A1 through A6 according. >> Excellent. >> Um so if first uh if we could the slide
two here is the neighborhood view. Uh anything you want to just add about what we're looking at here um as far as the seminar's um campus is concerned? >> No, not at this time. >> Okay. Um moving to slide three. We've prepared
uh kind of a zoomin of that map that shows the properties that we'll be discussing here. Um starting on the right, 44 Mercer at the corner and going to 31 Alexander on the left. And uh with each one, we we posted the the facade
with it too, just for some neighborhood context. and we can move back to this uh if the board um would like to see it again as we're thinking about context of of any of the um projects or properties that we're talking about.
Um so starting with 44 Mercer um the the key pieces to this are first the uh replacement of the uh apron and sidewalk um with a French gay colored concrete. Ultimately, um, as we'll show in a few slides, um, these have not held up well.
Um, and the belief is that the upgraded material will will both uh free up some of the slates for for use elsewhere, but hold up better and and have a better look. We'll also talk through or walk through the neighborhood. There's very few examples of other driveways using slate anymore. Um, in in uh Withersman,
Jackson, excuse me, um, in uh in Mercer Hill. Um uh there is a um on 44 um down Alexander there at the end of the previously installed fence there's a proposal to extend it by essentially one
length of fence to help screen uh the parking area. We'll show some photos of that. Uh and then if you want to just kind of talk through the types of plants that are being proposed here. Um so we um one of the things with which I've been working on the seminary is to
define a horicultural identity for the campus and have it be simple and elegant. Um focusing mostly on an arboritum type aesthetic rather than a garden aesthetic so that there's an identity for the boundaries of properties that's defined by large
canopy trees and smaller flowering trees. Um, so this project offers an opportunity to grab a large piece of that at the perimeter of campus. Um, so what we're talking about here are the um
stellar pink dogwood that you see at the right hand that would be used along the side of the property. Um on along the side of Alexander where the property is more narrow, we're talking about adding the Isix Dragon Lady which is a narrow
growing evergreen and it would be placed between the windows so that it would not block windows of the um of the property. And then in the front um the seringa reticula, the tree lilac. Um the reason for that choice is that there is a tree
lilac already on Mercer Street and so the thought was that this was complement that planting. Um other than that again we are trying to leave things simple and elegant. So it's mostly turf and trees. Just going to the next slide slide five.
Um this is the plot plan that shows where those plings would would be. And um we have u kind of shaded in in reded that center um photo the the location where it's proposed that an additional um fence panel matching the
existing fence would be installed to help hide that parking area. Um maybe just jumping right into some of the comments. You know, there are certainly several different ways to screen a parking as the seminary's desire to to do that and and and hide this um you know, it's one probably the only example
of um that kind of sideways parking lot style parking in the neighborhood that to to you know, ensure that it's it's uh screened. There are lots of ways to do that. This is the one that we proposed because it does match and would appear like the rest of the fencing um in the area, but certainly happy to to hear and
discuss other thoughts about um about that. Um, while we're on this slide, uh, I believe there were some comments on the location of the tree or or type uh on that front corner. You want to perhaps talk about that a bit? >> Uh, well, again, the um the green
triangles indicate the areas where we're suggesting that the dragon lady be planted. It's a narrow strip adjacent to the house and we believe that that particular plant can be kept at a reasonable size um to highlight
the um the building and then the pink triangle at the end is where the uh dogwood would go within that open space at the end of the property. Again um using the flowering trees to to highlight the building to frame the
building. Now, one of the comments on the the I'll guess call it the corner tree that was proposed um might be that it would block the home. Is that is that the type of tree that you feel would be particularly opaque or is that the right word? Uh see-through or allow some
visualization through it? >> Uh yes. And and again, the the idea is that the tree would be centered on the the white panel at the end of the building rather than on the window. So, um it would not block views from the window of the house or to the house.
Um next couple of slides we um and we'll do our best not to repeat ourselves for the other properties, but this is the kind of the the tour of of um aprons and sidewalks for for the neighborhood essentially. Um and we we first, you know, top right is the one for 44
Mercer. The uh apron itself is already concrete. Uh and the sidewalk is what's left of um of slates. We then started with uh you know starting down the other side of the street 19 or or continuing down the street, excuse me, 19 257 uh
and 29. You can see the the rough uh conditions of of these sidewalks. Um we then, you know, try to find the only two other examples that are still left of of slates in the area. And the next couple slides really we go down uh through other properties to to show that they've
really all been replaced um with concrete uh if they had been slate in the past. There's there's only those two examples of of um of slates. Uh again, um here's uh other concrete examples um
uh from the neighborhood um that we believe that the the colored um color matched concrete would would do a good job of um say mimicking or showing and has plenty of um examples uh in the neighborhood um as compared to the slate
that is is failing unfortunately under the weight of the of the cars. um to just one of the comments. you know, this this will go to all of them, but the idea is to replace the sidewalk and and the aprons with um with the matched concrete color and if there are slate
pieces for this is for all of the properties to to use them elsewhere on sidewalks um and save as many of them as possible uh for use as you know the seminary has a significant corner and and street here of of of slates that they would be repurposed for um and
used. Um, going through the rest of the comments, I think we talked a little bit, but you know, again, Era, if you want to talk a little bit more just about the the and I'll go back maybe two slides. Uh, the tree placement um along the home, I think, was was meant to uh
both not hide, but to kind of highlight and be between windows, but there's certainly um room for uh uh repositioning or or discussion there. anything you'd like to add that to address Miss Kim's second comment. >> Um, no. I think as I said, the the
intent is to frame the building, not to block it. >> Um, and I know this is a a comment or question that goes with every application, whether it's landscaping or ones that, you know, someone building a new home, of course, but you know, about the sustainable measures. Um the types
of plants are are are you know the number of trees that are being planted we we believe is a huge net positive uh to uh try to reuse some of the slates um from the uh apron area. Um uh but but ultimately for a landscaping project there's not a lot of
uh um we're certainly not using um invasive plants and in fact what might have been there years ago or in the past were invasive and kind of gnarly boxwoods in the past. and the ideas to um at least to seek approval to improve them with the flowering trees that we're
proposing. So, as to 44, that's certainly the the program. I I'll leave it to um to you if you if we want to pause and discuss this property or or how you'd like to proceed. We could go through all of them if you'd like or or
>> um why don't we go through the whole your whole presentation and then one by one we'll have comments and then maybe um take some public comment and then we'll um you know do it one by one. Okay.
>> Okay. Um, so I'm I'm moving on to slide nine, which I guess this will be our second exhibit, the exhibit for >> you know what I was actually trying to keep track of. I was going to mark um the few slides you had at the beginning that were an overview of the whole neighborhood as A1.
>> Okay. >> The slides dealing with 44 Mercer as A2 and then those several slides that you just had um showing the driveway aprons, mark those as A3. And then we'll do the 1517 Alexander Street as A4.
>> Got it. Um, actually I didn't write all of this down, but let me uh let me finish my notes. But so the uh driveway tour uh is A3. Uh A2 is 44 Mercer. A1 is the three slides that um uh showed the
neighborhood. And then A4 we would start with 1517 Alexander. Do I have if I have the right? >> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. Um uh so next moving down the street um you know in our mind it's right to left if
if the corner of uh Mercer and Alexander is the right. Uh as we move for left down Alexander um we get to the second property. Um this one um has a couple of different features to it than what we
talked about at uh 44. Uh from a hardcape hardcape perspective, the desire is to uh consolidate and rebuild the uh stairs again with uh match concrete. But again, you'll see in your your um packets there was also uh an
alternative for a stoneclad um option as well um to widen the walkway. That's that center photo there. um that left piece with the yellow line being kind of the property line between the two properties. Uh that is kind of the main access way for the rear of the house and
and how that the occupant of that home uh would use things. So the the proposal is to expand that so it's more usable. Um noting that there's not um a net increase of impervious or at least not enough of one that would cause either a
variance or a storm water issue. Um, and that's um that goes kind of no matter how the front steps are dealt with. I I'll say um the original discussion proposal was to remove the strip to the right, that second walkway. It's on
another property that's not the subject of one of these applications. So, we would certainly be um that was what that was the interest of the seminary to do home. um as part the back and forth about deeming this complete, we couldn't include it necessarily is my understanding as as part of the request
here, but ultimately that's just a an access to a fire escape and we would be very happy to connect that part of the adjacent property to this one for for the limited times that they would ever need it for access and uh either as a
subsequent application um with the blessing I suppose of this board to pursue it, remove that other um sidewalk. Um uh with that then there are a proposal to um plant uh two to two
cherry trees I suppose uh in the front of the property. And I'll I'll move to the next slide and and perhaps you can just go through um the the planting the planting plan. >> Um yes, it's uh pretty simple. We're
talking about two cherry trees again to frame the building. And as we move through this um in part of this idea about horiculture identity, we're trying to build a catalog of trees that are going to be used and repeated in pattern
throughout the campus. Um we've done this already at some of the residences that are already along Mercer Street. So some of the trees that you will see this evening have already been planted and have begun that list. Um this is our first suggestion to use the um aabono
cherry and but you'll see that um coming back again as we move through the presentations. I'm going to see if the virtual laser pointer works here. Um okay.
Um so as far as the front step uh is concerned currently the front steps of the home and I'm going to back up a slide are con uh consolidated the actual porch steps but the what's left I suppose of the concrete walkways had you
know were bifurcated or split kind of around an an little planting area. Um, and then as is one of Miss Kim's comment, but but with apologies that we didn't think in advance to to put a photo here, there um were two uh
sidewalk extensions uh into into the street. And so I think one of her comments was, well, you know, that how do we address those? And we if if it's the board's um desire to to join us in consolidating and and again so desire to
to um u have one if any um frankly sidewalk connection to the street and be happy to consolidate that. Um it is uh interesting and you know I don't know how often those are actually used anymore for um access to the streets. Um
but it certainly uh either repurposing the existing ones in a consolidated way to match a a revised singular stairs as proposed um or uh if if the board's proposed preference would be for us to
keep the stairs separate then we obviously have those match um as well. Um again um from a landing perspective similar to the other stairs that we're talking about um uh we did provide
schematics for both u concrete um and these as well. Oh excuse me and a and a blue stone treads. Um although could we go back Ryan could we go back one slide? Um, if you look at uh the the photo with the dimensions of the
concrete path right above the dimensions, the reason for changing this at all is that right now the um the concrete has opened a gap between the steps and the landing. And so when we thought about making the repair, we
thought again in the interest of reducing imperous paving um and creating more green space in front of the building, it would be desirable to just have one smaller path leading to the landing of both. So I again um attempt to keep things as
simple as possible. That's that is the um the program proposed for 15 17. I'm going to move next to our next slide which would be 19 Alexander which I believe we're we're up to five. >> Yes.
>> Okay. Um uh similar program to this one but with a couple of other elements that we've seen both from 44 and the house next door. So, um we're uh we'll show you some more detailed pictures, but again
um the um revision of the apron sidewalk to the concrete. Um this is something again as as noted in the overview, this property has a a retaining wall that with the steps kind of built through it. Um the desire from the seminary is to
and we'll we'll look at it in more detail uh in another slide. correct, make the, you know, bring the stairs up to a a safe uh situation with proper handrails that are in the right locations and go to all the steps and are the right height. Um we had not
honestly till the comments considered removing the um the retaining wall and that's something we'd be open to to discussing um uh with the board. uh but to uh again uh replace the steps with u concrete with consistent risers um and and treads
either in concrete or um with the blue stone as we propose as an alternate. Uh the new handroll rails um would be uh sized to code. The current ones are 30 in which is not tall enough for code and do not and we'll step into it and see a
little bit more detail. do not actually get to the bottom riser uh cuz they stopped short of it and are actually kind of rather than in the stairs are in the retaining wall. Um and then um we have uh an example of um the the same wood fence uh at the rear of the
property but street facing but at the the uh kind of flanking uh the property. We'll show you that where that goes. And there is a reference to an aluminum fence. Those would be along the side property lines in the rear. um we don't believe visible uh but the idea would be to have something that is uh helps um um
allow these spaces to be used a little bit more privately by by the occupants but in a way that we don't believe is would be visible uh from the street or or um intrusive. So uh first if we want to start with the the the plantings that we're looking at here.
>> Um actually I'm going to start with the the steps in the walk if I may. >> Sure. Um so this this slide better shows the reason that we are suggesting widening the stair um to match the width of the existing landing um so that it
can continue down from the steps of the house and then we can put the railings in the steps so that you can safely traverse down to the sidewalk. Um the steps existing steps are damaged. The stone is damaged although any stone that we could save we would save for reuse.
Um and uh we're proposing concrete although there is an ad alternate to do blow stoneclad steps instead. Um the trees that we are suggesting here is just um one tree on
the one side of property that would complement it would be another stellar pink that would complement the existing cornis florida that's already on the site. and see if I can get my Oh, the pointer's back. So, this uh where the
star is, this kind of flank um between the home and the property line would be where the wood fence would be proposed. Um the kind of perpendicular portion of it and then the portion along the property lines and and the and the rear would be proposed to be the aluminum
fencing. And um regarding the conversation about the detention the retention wall >> um right to on the on the left side of the property um
there's a just a sloped yard coming down from from grade down being sloped down to the sidewalk. Um, if if the board is interested in having that wall removed, we could easily do the same thing here because we don't have any trees that would be impacted. So, we could just let
that that that turf slope gently down to grade. And the revised design of the slightly wider steps is to allow the um railings to actually be placed within the steps rather than on that retaining wall. So that that actually would potentially
accommodate the uh I say the removal, but if that's the board's desire, actually that that would fit um and would be similar to the other proposed stair um down the street, which is essentially stairs um with a with a grassy area rather than a retaining
wall. Um our next slide for 19, this shows again um so probably the same photo that we saw before. Um but um you know the apron area that we proposed to um
replace uh with with concrete and then our our attempt to show where that um wood fence would be. This is zoomed in. Uh would be screened but um partially visible from the streetscape but as you
know between the the house um that side um location where the the fence would um the wood fence would um come out from the rear of the house along the property line. Um just take a look. Um there was
uh a a typo actually on the topographical survey where I think uh this home was listed in the body of the house um uh at 16 versus 19. So obviously we will certainly correct that. um uh the
stair riser I think we addressed which is to essentially allow the um railings to be incorporated into the the stairs rather than the uh retaining wall which would also help facilitate if there's a different idea with the retaining wall as well. Um uh did talk about comment
four which is the you know the modern construction about the retaining wall. I think from our perspective, um the retaining wall, the proposal for the retaining wall to rebuild it is an extensive one. Um so we're certainly not opposed at all to to regraing the
property um to remove it. Um when we talked about it, it it seemed that perhaps either keeping it and rebuilding it close to what it is now as proposed or removing it would make sense. um that we couldn't quite wrap our heads around a you know a kind of in between with a much smaller um I'm sure something could
be ar you know figured out but but ultimately it would be a lot of storm and drainage work uh to to kind of re um or perhaps for the first time do footings for a proper wall but with only uh you know a small amount of it might
might not make as much sense. Um um you know we talked about the the uh the steps um and landing. Um the current height uh for the uh railing is just not up to code. Um and the proposal um would would allow it to be a a safe height. So
that are we would very much um like to and maybe uh from a construction perspective required to to go to that um higher height. Um uh comment seven is one that might um make its way to several of these applications. I don't
want to anyone to think that we're proposing Belgian block anywhere. That is an artifact from Princeton's design detail that they like to have on plan. So on some of the newer plans that we actually like kind of crossed it out and blacked it out so there'd be no question that that's not what we're proposing. But that was just an attempt in the
technical drawings to take Princeton's design guide which has a um Belgian block option but that is not at all what we're looking to do uh to be clear. Um and then we talked about the uh the two um fence options. one which
would be visible and match the um 44 Mercer uh and one that we we don't believe would be visible um and kind of designed to to to not be so frankly if it were. Um and then again with the driveway um
uh aprons as with all of these we would be reusing as much as we possibly could for other um adjacent um repairs u along the street um in the area. The um last one uh item nine, this is
not something I think any of us caught um but Elizabeth certainly noticed. Um we believe and correct me if we're wrong in our interpretation here, Elizabeth. Um that the there is and my pointer here, this um
the extension from the sidewalk to the street had never been lined up, it sounds like with the stairs. Um, and that's that's its current condition. We weren't going to move it. Um, if the board desired, we we probably could straighten it or or kind of have it line
up with the the stairs or remove it if it doesn't make sense to have there there at all, but that was uh not something that our team had caught. I believe that is it for 19. Um, moving on to 2527,
which I think we're up to six. >> Yes, >> excuse me. Um, again, as with the other properties, this one um has the uh replacement of this sidewalk and apron. Um, the we'll we'll get in a little bit more detail with the uh the steps. This
would be, I think, a good visualization or understanding of what we just talked about. If we were to lose the retaining wall, we'd probably end up with steps similar to what we're talking about with this application. But to replace those steps with ones that have again consistent risers and treads that are
for for safety and with a a prop appropriate railing um for safety uh as well. Um and then again uh similar treatment um with the wood fence on the rear flanks of the property um to create some privacy. Um not particularly
visible. We'll show that slide again that shows, you know, how far back it is, but then with the aluminum fencing in the not visible parts of things um uh behind and and then um updates uh with um with the stellar pink dogwood. So now
I'll turn it over for kind of the more specific tour. Well, I think I think you you pretty much hit all the points. Um so just uh the location again the location of another stellar pink dogwood in front of this in front of this house.
Um and then looking to the the center that's the current uh kind of partially dry stacked and you know this this goes to the retaining wall next door. Um started off likely as just dry stacked and over time there had been some mortar kind of put in there as as repairs. Um
again the proposal here um would be to replace these stairs with the concrete or the blue stone with more consistent treads as we showed in the in the schematics and a uh proper railing um for safety. But if the board were so declined as we talked about next door, this would
ultimately be the type of stairs that I think the vision would be uh for the for 19 as well. Um, if the retaining wall were to to to go away, >> I also don't I don't think we've mentioned yet as far as the railing. Um, what we were proposing is that the
railings would match the new railings that just went on the renovated homes. So, it would be consistent the whole way down the walk. Yeah. Um, likely the railing on the lack of railing, you know, predated people looking at that. Um, and you know, it's
it's code now and we'd like to bring it up to code. We're not quite sure why it was built that way. But likely uh I want to say not a lot of thought went into it, but uh ultimately this was a kind of a dry stack steps that came together over over the years. Um and and code has has certainly changed. Um again, blue
stone consistently uh we'll repurpose as much as we can. Um believe you have the height of the the risers uh for the replacement steps. >> Well, the idea um all these stairs are a little bit different. So the overall intent is that there be the same number
of stairs that there is now at each property, but they would all be they would be divided equally. So I think we're tending toward a 6-in riser, but it would vary a little bit based on the specific topography for each each house.
Um, as with the last application, um, we are not proposing any Belgian block. That's just kind of a design detail, but certainly we're happy to revise markup condition as to make it absolutely clear that that won't um make its way into a final um project. Um maybe the last
thing is if we want to just address the location of the uh ornamental tree. Um that's uh comment nine um from the memo. >> Yeah. Again, um the intent is that it frames the building rather than blocking
the window. So um we would adjust it accordingly and again like the property before it the um wood fencing would be the while rear street fronting facing and the aluminum would be limited to the side lot lines and we believe not not
visible. Um again um because it's the spot between uh the buildings. This are uh this slide shows on on the right where that fence would kind of be. Um now there's you know we didn't we won't be removing those trees that kind of block it a bit but that's the idea that it's
it's at the rear of the home kind of creating that backyard um area uh for the the occupants of the home. And then again uh the the particular um stones uh from from this piece some of which might be salvageable from this particular
property. Um next we're going to 29 Alexander which I believe we're up to seven. Um, this has a lot of the same elements that we've talked about um uh with the
uh not having any retaining walls and uh or or stone hard skate steps but introducing uh between this property literally between this one and 31 this um concept of whether you call it a shared driveway or pathway. This is a
I'm going to say major thoroughfare. That's probably not fair. But this is a a walking path that u um seminarians and people in this community use to get around campus. So it has some additional challenges um uh that other driveways or
or sidewalks don't have. Um so uh the again we've got the the apron replacement uh the fences that we've talked about that match the uh um 44 Mercer and then uh these low voltage lights uh at a very warm temperature with very low spillage.
We believe that these would be extremely low um impact or visibility, but just the bare minimum to allow for um uh safe passage um for people using it as as a walkway, which is unique um uh for homes
that are in a residential style but are are part of an institution. Um there's a this this does have a tree removal. Um and we would propose replace a a crab apple with with a dogwood and then um on this side of the shared driveway um uh
for new trees. So um just another comment about the um about the lights. They're only 22 in tall and I think the next slide shows the uh pattern of illumination. So, it's
a 7 foot radius um to get down to 0.01 uh foot candles. So, again, we're looking for just uh putting a soft glow for people walking along uh making sure they can traverse this safely.
Um the u proposed fixture, which is uh and I'm gonna apologize. I'm gonna be very careful not to use words that are actual lighting terms. You know, we we did look with the manufacturer. This is a dark style dark sky style fixture. Whether it's been certified or not, we're not quite sure. But the the idea
of this is to to point all the loud down all the light down and and to be shielded with very minimal um and and at the same time warm um lighting. Um perhaps want to talk a little bit you know we have marked out here the locations of the proposed trees um both
from a spacing and how they would you know physically I'll use the word thrive but you know be successful in in living there in that location. Um so again um this uh the planting areas here is are not as narrow as we saw at 44. Um I
think the one side it's a little over six and the other side it's a little over eight. Um and so we're talking about having the dragon lady be planted against the building on either side to sort of give you a prominade as as you walk into campus.
Um just going through some of the other comments again like all the other ones may not have been mentioned in every application but consistently and I'll move to the next slide so we can see more. Um the idea would be if if any of these slates are usable that we would of course um salvage them and and use them
uh u either as spares or elsewhere on the sidewalk uh in the area. Uh location plants. Um did we talk about comment three the the location of the um of the exist of the
the dogwood um in front. Oh, so um it would replace the crab apple that's there now that is in poor condition, but it would be moved away from the step a little bit more. Um again, the idea is that it would um
complement the existing dogwood that's going to remain. So, that'd be planted there in a bit of a cluster that would leave the front of the building clear to view. And I thought we had a photo of that, but I it may have uh dropped off here. If it's not too jarring, I'm going to go
back to the beginning of the presentation um just to so we could get a a front facade of um of 29. >> So that's yeah, that that would be the crab apple. Again, it's in in poor health. And the idea is that the um the
new tree would be planted more to the side of the house to frame the house. you know, with again with apologies. I'm going to zoom back. We're we're in the I guess we're in part of A1 now, just for the record. And um us back to seven.
Just make sure we got all the rest of the comments here. I think so. We we we'll perhaps address in conjunction with 31 when we get to the next property the the um I guess I'll say the the pathway design. You know, it's it's probably be best to talk
about them when we talk about 31 um collectively, I suppose. Um so getting to the the last home uh 31 Alexander furthest to the left and our right to left um um travel down the
street. Uh this I believe we're up to eight for these slides. Um again this one like the others has the uh apron replacement and the reuse of the slates. Um, it does have a a uh wood fence again
in the back uh to uh kind of frame the uh u the rear of the property. And then in this particular case, there's a because it is a common walkway uh we do feel it's important to have a little bit more privacy there for these occupants.
Uh so this is a a wood fence proposed in that area even though it might not be visible um uh from from the street. Um, and then we've got the uh four uh dragon ladies on the side of the home along the walkway. Uh, as well as uh uh two
cherries u in the front and a a similar um uh lighting pattern here. Uh we've got um uh our our next slide. You can see where the where the the trees um would be um
planted and the the wood fence um and gate again matching what was at 44 um in the rear. Um perhaps maybe now's time to just kind of address the landscaping as between 29 and 31. It was kind of a
joint area. Yeah. just um the idea that it's kind of a classic gesture to frame a walkway with with the same plant on either side. Um again, we want to leave it simple and elegant and then softly lit uh for
safety. And again a similar comment I think that you made to 29, but the the size and types of these trees and the locations you know designed I suppose not to to not to hide anything and and also with enough size and space that these will be successful in this
location. >> Um the other the other comment regarding sustainability is the um the hedges that were removed here were invasive um invasive species. So we feel that that's a a good environmental gesture as well.
Um just go through the other comments here. Um uh the just go back um with the proposed front locations. Uh I I believe our intent is certainly to
frame the house, not to block it, but certainly happy to discuss these the locations of the trees. Um um and the the note about the um um there's I think it possibly an extraneous sheet for the other type of
fencing that is not being used on this and we certainly um will will remove that. Um finally um just because we we have them here. I think we've got uh a few other streetscape slides. Um uh these are
common to all of the uh applications but and we have them here in case the it's helpful um for the board to see. But you know starting we went right to left. Now we'll go left to right at 31 to to see the uh existing streetscapes of 31 uh
and 29 again that crab apple in front that um we discussed. uh 25 um 27 uh and uh and 19 again the um the two that would have again if we were to lose the retaining wall at 19 uh similar
um stair treatments um 1517 and here in this photo you can see that kind of bifrocated path I suppose to the street um that um either could be consolidated or or kept in place. Uh and then a at 44 Mercer um
a photo that shows the prior attempts at screening the parking um uh and where we would propose to have an extension of the of the wood fence uh for screening. But again um open to other options and discussions there to just to make sure
that that the uniquely exposed parking area um on the street is is covered um in a way. Um, so with with that, I think we've gotten our our presentation um out there. Um, thank you for for listening,
for all the excellent comments from from Miss Kim, and I'm happy to answer any questions or or um as we go forward. Thank you. >> Great. Thank you. All right. Um, I do want to check with the commission members first. Uh, questions and let's
start with 44. Um, are there questions or comments on 44? Um, and I guess we could talk about some of the general things as well, like the the
apron materials and uh stairs. So, um, and as far as the removal of hedges prior to this, they were all boxwoods. They were all invasive. >> The um the hedges that were in at 29 and
31 were yanmous and privet, both of which are invasive. So, those were removed. Um there was also on in the front of 44 uh there was a large eonymous and a private hedge which also were removed. Okay. Thank you. All right. So I'm
opening it up for comments. Um if anyone has questions on 44. >> I have some questions. >> Sure. >> Um I wanted to ask about 44 U. Mercer.
So, how many cars does that parking um lot can how many cars does it fit? >> There's four. >> Four. >> Yes. >> Okay. And then So, is there going to be a gate somehow? So, you're proposing to put the um fencing all around. Just
extend the fencing. There's not going to be a gate. >> Just the front. >> Just the front. Oh, that's what I thought. Okay. So, they can just >> drive in. All right. >> The intent is just to to screen that um because clearly that lot is not in keeping with the residential character
for the rest of the street. >> Mhm. >> But the the fence would not extend across the driveway if that's >> I understand. Yep. >> Okay. Other questions about 44. >> Mine are kind of general to everything. >> Can you use the microphone?
>> My comments were more general to everything. I didn't um break them out that way except for well 15 17 at the end. I can talk about that individually. Do you want to >> just go ahead? >> Okay. Um, so um I'm I'm curious about
the the horicultural identity that was spoken about for the campus. Was that developed using any um historical records or data or archaeology? >> I'm sorry. I don't know if I understand your question >> that you mentioned that there was the
creation of a horicultural identity for the campus. Was that based on research or is it entirely new? >> Uh, no. It was it was based on um an earlier discussion about
how difficult it is to identify the seminary as distinct from Princeton as distinct from um ordinary homes and what could be done in a reasonable fashion to try to u delineate it without fencing
the whole thing. And so the thought was to use plants because uh the campus has a lot of beautiful plants that uh complement the beautiful architecture um but to repeat them in a way that they're clearly visible. So at a certain time of
year all the dogwoods along the perimeter of the campus would be blooming and you know you were at the seminary. Now we've just started putting this into place but that's that's the idea. >> Okay. I just was curious. Okay. I mean there a lot of the campuses in town have
had some very famous architects and and um uh planting schemes and and sidewalk what plans associated with them. I didn't know uh if there was anything uh that hearkens back to that. But I I I get the idea of trying to to unify with
uh some really beautiful planting materials that do very well here. The the dogwood season in Princeton is gorgeous. Um my next question or comment was again about um landscape treatment and and just to say that um hardscape
especially when you're um that it's been saved, reused um repurposed and um I think it has a wonderful ability to help the u pedestrian experience the campus and just what bits of history still ex
exist. And um I think that's a that's a very good thing. Um I'm very very pleased to hear and I I it could be both a um just a ecological economical um background but saving as much of the
slate reusing it as possible is is just really a very good thing. And I think, oh, uh, this, I guess, does relate to one property in particular, but the lighting that you want to put in that path that leads from Alexander Street to
to Miller Chapel is is, I think, a smart thing, and it seems like the fixture that's been chosen is as low-key and uh, appropriate as possible without it being so low-key that people might trip over it. So, I I think that's a good choice. And then when we get to 1517, I'll I'll
ask about that. >> All right. Thanks. I'm going to open it up. Anyone else? Shirley. >> Yeah. I just wonder why it's taken so long to fix these um sidewalks and the steps. Usually the historic houses have
older people who have live lived there for so long. And uh it really is a hazard, especially the one in the middle that has a step um and the sidewalks. And I know there might be younger people there also who would have the same problem. And then the retaining wall. You said you were
going to remove that retaining wall. >> We'd certainly be >> one of the retaining walls. >> We'd be open to removing it if that's the board's preference. We >> because it might be if if you repaired it would be better because if you if you um remove it, that's sort of where where the water comes down to it and the water
may come to the sidewalk if you don't keep those retaining walls there. >> Yeah, that's a that's actually a very a very good point. Um we're we're open to either, you know, our proposal was to to rebuild and and as part of rebuilding it. It's pretty um expansive. You know,
there would be a drainage situation necessary to make the the wall actually function properly. So that would well although I I will say that um the front of the property is fairly level right now. So that the amount of water that
would be coming down would just be for the extent of that slope, which would not be a tremendous amount of water. Not to say that it wouldn't flow down to the sidewalk, but it's it would just be a little bit that's coming down that bank. So I don't um I just want to make it
clear that we're not suggesting that the wall might be removed if it were going to create some sort of storm water issue. >> Right. >> Thank you. >> Thanks. Um, Maria, you had a question again. >> Um, I have sort of a comment and the
question. So, um, in terms of deline like you know the Princeton uh seminary campus is absolutely gorgeous. It's really beautiful. And in terms of delineating um sort of that beautiful area perhaps something like um a
concrete apron but the slate sidewalk throughout for that whole area might make a lot of sense. It would be really beautiful, I think. And I also was wondering whether for all of these um houses you would consider instead of
like doing the um wood fence and then the aluminum fence um just doing shrubbery and more trees instead because again the beauty with this is that you obviously don't want people walking into your backyard necessar necessarily, right? But I feel like it would really
sort of break down that, you know, feeling of, you know, that beautiful expanse that you have there. So, and I wondered whether you were thinking that maybe instead of, you know, the wood fence, instead of the aluminum, you could give people more privacy, but
actually just planting more um, you know, behind those houses. And looking at the Google maps, I don't know how current that is, looking at kind of like the backyards of these properties, there seems to be seem to be quite a few plants, quite a few trees there already.
>> So are you are you suggesting that you would rather see hedges rather than fence? Is that your point? >> I think so. Um again as our conversations about horiculture on the campus have really tended toward trees
um both for simplicity and also to make sure that we're not proposing anything that the staff is not able to keep up with. Um they don't have a large horiculture staff. We want to make sure that we're not putting in anything that
won't be maintained to a proper level. one other and I I pulled up the one of the slides that shows the area map just as a reminder I suppose that while these are residential style buildings they do back to um a campus you with parking areas and and other more institutional
buildings. Um so the the at times uh the physical barrier for um a res a seminary resident looking to have a backyard experience might be more helpful or necessary than in in another type of um
situation. Um, also I think that excellent point about the slates unfortunately on the sidewalk portion of the um of the apron. I guess if the apron is the part that goes between sidewalk and street and the actual sidewalk that that
abuts the apron, that's the part that's gotten the the worst beating unfortunately and and um kind of drove the physical need to look for a different material. Um, and it's it's just unfortunately not holding up. And you know, from walking through the neighborhood, there's really only one or
two examples of of slates across driveways um anymore likely for that for that reason. >> All right. Thanks. How about on this side, Charlotte or not, Emily? >> Um yes, I I would like to address the
the issue of the blue stone on the driveways. Uh the well at the moment both sides of Alexander Street from Mercer all the way down to Stewart Hall um are continuous blue stone sidewalks.
Um on the other side of Alexander Street, the east side, there are only two driveways and both of those driveways have blue stone on the driveway portion. Um it does all appear to be newer blue stone. It's not as old
as the blue stone on the other side. Um but it is all completely intact. And I I think that there is a photograph circulating around of the driveway into what's called Steman Alley uh which is
on the other side of Alexander Street. And that driveway actually serves nine houses um on um on Mercer Street and on Alexander Street. So it's not just the traffic for one house or a couple of
houses. It's massive traffic um including uh garbage trucks, construction trucks, and um it's believed that that blue stone was put in in 1985. So it has survived extremely well for at least 40 years. Um so I I
would urge um I would urge people to consider um putting in where needed new blue stone um properly set um so that there there could be continue to be continuous blue stone sidewalks on both
sides of Alexander Street. um as every I mean I think everybody knows it's one of the most intact historic um streets in Princeton. Um and the streetscape itself is is an essential part of the of the historic district. So
>> um uh that's that would be my my concern and and uh you know hope that could you know it could be done. >> Did you photograph We're just looking for a photograph. >> Oh, okay.
>> We should probably mark this >> in as an exhibit. Um, >> so this came from one of our >> Yes. So, we can mark this as what do you usually mark uh commission exhibits as? >> Well, there they have a everything do. >> Should we do H for
>> H? Yeah. Let's start H for HBC. Yep. Okay. >> Perfect. >> All right. >> I think they do. I think I see. >> Yeah, they have a copy. >> Apologies. So, this this um photo you're we're marking is
>> H1. Got it. >> All right. So, I don't know if you need some time to respond to that or if you want to come back to that. Um, >> we want to get through the other comments, we can we can come back to that. >> Okay. Um, are there other comments about
the the retaining wall or other u materials? Um, well, I I'll just add that I I would like to advocate for the I guess the blue stone um covering on the on the any
replacement steps rather than the concrete. Um, I certainly think that that would help maintain the the historic character of the street. >> Okay. Thanks, Roger. You had any comments? >> No, I I agree with Emily. Um,
maintaining the blue stone. Um, I also like the retaining wall. It's It's a little quirky. It's It's individualized. It gives some character to the neighborhood. I I personally like to see that rebuilt. >> All right. Other feelings about that um
retaining wall. >> Well, I I agree about the retaining wall. I think it's part of the point I was trying to make about finding these various different pieces of um hardscape from previous times gives a lot of character definition.
>> So you'd rather have them repair I mean they're not going to rebuild the retaining wall but they would repair it. Well, um what what's shown on the drawing is actually to disassemble and reassemble because it's bellying out and
failing in many locations. So if um if the idea is to keep it, we would like to rebuild it so that it's stable. >> Right. And now Elizabeth, I don't know maybe you have a comment on that because you said that is a later addition from
the 40s maybe or >> right. So that retaining wall obviously is a modern construction and I guess if you look at the streetscape of all the other properties along Alexander Street, you could see that that building is really not any higher and I think for
them to kind of work with it and at that time it was probably a simple solution. I think that they probably made it dry laid. It's not concrete laid. Um, you know, that was common that they would do that. And you can also tell by the the angle of the wall as it goes around the
driveway too that it was newer. Um, so for consistency, I thought it would be a good idea if they could lower it, but I think that what the applicant saying is that they would rather remove it instead of lowering it. Um, so it's up to the board how they feel about that,
>> right? And I think part of this is what era we're aiming to uh restore it to. I mean, I guess some of the comments are, well, if it's older than 50 years old, then
it's okay because it's become part of the historic landscape. and other members like might say, "Well, that was not really a very thoughtful addition back then." So, I think there's
maybe some diverse opinions on, you know, what where we're trying to go with that. I do um I do think it's um not typical in the neighborhood. So, I'm I'm
kind of inclined to remove it uh because I think it draws undue attention. >> Right. And I think the other um thought that I had was um there's a lot of additional hardware that's being added on to the streetscape of the properties.
the railings that weren't necessarily there whether they're existing here or they're asking for add-on and those are always dictated by the amount of steps you have. So if you can reduce those then you can also reduce the requirement for railings >> right
>> so that's something for the HBC to consider as well >> and since the houses are primary um you know we we do want to keep in mind not detracting from the home or adding undue attention you know
um so yeah I'm I'm inclined to that the the retaining wall kind of detracts in my opinion from the from the architecture. Um
>> Madam Chair, just to I I believe from our architect though that even with the reduced grading that there would still need to be several treads there and that wouldn't in our mind um remove the need for a railing
that um we wouldn't be so few treads that that would be possible. But on on the other hand um as you were speaking about um the integrity of the entire streetscape um removing that wall would
make it look more like we're trying to standardize details for the houses as they have been architecturally so that the landscape responds in a similar fashion and the type of step you see in one building is similar to the type of
step you see in the other. And again the um the retaining wall is something that's very different and big for that for that street. So it fights against the idea of standardizing >> and I think that maybe HBC looks at
standardizing a little bit differently. I think they feel that there is always a uniqueness to um to each building. I mean, there are some similarities because of the period and material and style, but there are some unique features that um don't necessarily
warrant standardizing. But at the same time, I'd say that retaining wall is kind of modern and is not um to me is not historically um reflective of that landscape along that street.
>> All right. Are there other comments, uh, questions? Um, as So, as far as, um, the fencing goes, I think we've gone
back and forth. Now, there isn't any vinyl. It's just aluminum or wood. That's correct. Okay. Um, and there's an option for all of the
steps to have a blue stone cladding. >> Yes. >> Okay. And um, the landscape that has been removed was invasive.
>> Um, Madam Chair, if I just want to address that. So, um I think that the point of the comment was that it's a discussion that should be done with the historic preservation office and not just determine that it gets removed. I I mean
>> I don't like >> I appreciate you raising it now this morning. Um >> I don't like Zelcoa. They're not considered invasive, but to me they really are. So I mean like I wouldn't go out and remove it if it you know without if it was necessary. So I think that that's the point I want to make that in
the future it's always good to reach out because there is a section in the ordinance that any landscape removal alteration does require to be um to come before the historic preservation office for determination. All right. Thank you. So, I guess the
last issue really we'll go back to are the the sidewalks and the the blue stone and the point that Emily had raised and I guess if you had a a response.
>> Sure. >> Yeah. Why don't we have Dennis? You want to introduce yourself? Um uh and uh we'll get you sworn in. >> Sure. Uh Dennis Castanon uh ABP for operations for the seminary. >> Okay. Uh can you raise your right hand? Do you swear that the testimony you're
about to give is the whole truth to the best of your knowledge? >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> Uh in regards to the aprons, uh actually Alexander Street has uh three different s uh driveways in addition to the ones from the seminary. Um the one that you
pointed out, you're correct. that that particular driveway is intact and is in excellent condition. Uh the second one has several uh blue stone pieces that are damaged. And actually the third one, which is 26 Alexander Street on your
right bottom, is actually concrete. So we're not stepping away from what actually is already existing. All of Edge Hill, which is still on the Mercer Hill Street, all of the driveways that have slate sidewalks have concrete
aprons. So, we're basically want to make sure that the vehicles that we use because it's not only this the individuals that live in those units, the seminary actually has larger vehicles that sometimes we have to go into those driveways and might potentially damage them. Uh we have
plows that have to go into those areas. So we want to make sure that again for the for the residents and also the community members the sidewalks are actually um clear without any damage uh blue stone. So that's the main reason why >> and and may just as well. So Dennis in
in your experiences maintaining a campus is there um additional things you could have explored that would let you believe that the concrete is a better material for this location? Well, obviously a lot of the materials that we use are
eco-friendly, but unfortunately they're not uh blue stone unfortunately is not very helpful. I mean, Mara has more experience working with a lot of campuses around uh the east coast, and she could speak a little bit more on that if she wants to.
>> Yeah. In um in my experience, um I have never used blue stone in a driveway application. Um, I've used it in a walkway application, in a plaza application where the only vehicles that would be using that would be a fairly
light duty snow removal type vehicle. Um, but driveway apens take a lot of a lot of abuse. So that's not my experience. So I guess in in your experience what you see in the neighborhood is either what you see of
the concrete or broken slates is consistent with your experience in and of this material um across your work. >> Yeah. The the only other um you know Belgian block um can be used successfully as as a driveway apron
although that doesn't seem to be the standard vocabulary around here. Um, I see it a lot on driveways in say Villanova. >> Yeah, I I agree. I think Belgian block would be completely out of character in this neighborhood. Um,
it has such a suburban feel to it. Um, all right. So, if let's see. So, are there other questions? If not, I think we should
uh open it up to the public for comment. Is there a microphone that they could use? All right. Would Yep. So, if there's anyone from the public who would like to uh comment on
any of these six applications, um yeah, go ahead. I'm representing the Mercer Hill Historic District Association. My name is Christopher Olsen. Um I'm reading a letter from the president of of the
Mercer Hill Historic District Association because she was not able to be here. And this letter apparently could not be received unless it was read in public. So that's what I'm here to do. >> Written. >> Sorry. Um, Elizabeth, what
are Do we need to swear the public in or >> do we need to Okay. Sorry. We should swear him in. Okay. >> Can you raise your right hand? Do you swear that the testimony you're about to give this evening is the whole truth to the best of your knowledge? >> Yes, it is. >> Thank you. >> Yes, I do.
Um, the letter is dated October 15th. >> With apologies. I don't mean to interrupt. Um, but just before you start though, just to be is is this a is this the speaker's testimony or is he reading a letter from someone else? >> Yeah, he's reading a letter uh into the
record from the president of the Mercer Hill Historic District Association. >> I'm not going to ask that it not happen, but I I believe that is the definition of hearsay. Um >> I think he is here representing >> Okay. the his uh historic district
association as a whole as the letter came from not her personally but as the president. >> Okay. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Allowed to proceed now. >> Yeah. >> The memo to Elizabeth Kim, Princeton Historic Preservation Officer. Julie
Capazolei, chair, Historic Preservation Commission. David Shore, vice chair, Historic Preservation Commission and Historic Preservation Commission, HPC, regarding the applications of the
Princeton Theological Seminary. I won't repeat all the addresses, but it's everything that's been presented this evening. Um, dear Miss Kim and Princeton Historic Preservation Commission. As president of the Mercer Hill Historic District
Association, I'm writing to you today because I am away from Princeton and cannot attend the October 20th HPC meeting. First, I would like to commend Princeton Theological Seminary for the historic preservation work they are currently undertaking on Alexander
Street, Lennox House, and Payne Hall. The area of Alexander Street before Mercer Street is a highly significant historic gateway into Princeton as both sides of Alexander Street have houses all built from the 1830s to 1840s.
Walking down both sides of the street from Payne Hall on the east and Steuart Hall on the west to Mercer Street, the sidewalks are continuous blue stone. On the seminary side, the blue stone is in need of repair in places, but the
majority of it is intact and contributes to the historic significance and ambiance of this unique historic section of Alexander Street. The blue stone truly enhances the historic district, especially in this high-f foot and car traffic area of
Princeton. As per the town's historic preservation ordinance, the MHHDA would like to respectfully ask our PTS neighbors to restore the bluestone sidewalks, including the
sidewalk area at the driveways and blue stone front entranceways or replace in kind. We would also ask that PTS please look at the driveway apron and sidewalk at the entrance to Steenman Alley to the
left of 14 Alexander Street. This driveway entrance is a combination of blue stone and Belgian block that was restored the last time Alexander Street was repaved about 20 15 to 20 years ago. And the blue stone is in in the driveway
area is still in very good condition even though cars for nine residences and many heavy trucks come in and out of the alley. If blue stone is laid on top of a hard base versus dirt, it is stable. Please note concrete slabs can also
crack under the weight of cars and trucks. At 19 and 2527 Alexander Street, the blueest stone steps are in need of repair, but the blue stone landings are mostly in good or very good condition, with one slab in
need of replacement at 25 Alexander. Both steps and landings at 19 and 2527 Alexander Street greatly enhance the historic character of these highly significant Greek Revival houses designed in the 1830s by Charles
Steedman. We kindly urge PTS to restore these blue stone entranceways. Regarding fences, we would highly recommend continuing to use wood and not aluminum as wood fencing is compatible and appropriate within the historic
district and already used or planned for 44 Mercer Street and 29 Alexander Street. Many thanks for your consideration of the MHDA concerns and requests. Sincerely, Carolyn Carolyn Robertson, president, Mercer Hill
Historic District Association. Okay, thank you. >> Can I add one personal comment as an observer from across the street? >> Much of the damage to the the blue stone sidewalks uh at the
aprons to the houses on Alexander Street. I've witnessed huge dumpsters being pushed into the properties. And admittedly, Alexander Street is a very narrow street, but much of that damage was done during the demolition of those houses. And the contracts, I would
think, would have included repairing damage done by their demolition contractors. That was both damage to the Blue Stone sidewalks and some of the curbs. And that's extraordinary
um construction that happens very, very rarely. But that damage was was not what you see today, two years ago. So, thank you. >> All right. Thank you. >> All right. >> Hi. >> Hi, Joe.
>> Hi, Joe Butler. 18 Haven Road. >> Yes. >> Do you swear that the testimony you're about to give is the whole truth to the best of your knowledge? >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Um, I really wasn't intending to speak on this, but I just want to comment on the fence on 44 extending it.
I appreciate that they want to, I guess, obscure or disguise the cars. It's not the right word, but I'm afraid it's a little bit of a hazard because it does block the view. That's a single lane driveway coming out of the back of that. And I think having a solid fence
certainly for school children, younger people, I I think it's a safety hazard and I really would prefer if they could put in greenery. I I understand the issue that it's more to take care of, but um it does seem like from um cars
entering and exiting it would be better to view. Is it I appreciate that they want to hide disguise those cars, but it's just a few and they're cars. I I mean, it's a parking lot. I So, it's
it's a good effort, but at 91 Mercer, they have cars parked in the yard in front of the house. So, I mean, for those cars that are parked behind the house, it it doesn't seem like it's really necessary. I'm unless they can
get the people from 91 Mercer to park their car there instead of the front yard. Thank you. >> All right. Thank you. Um, did you guys want to respond to the letter or the public comments?
>> Just just very briefly. Um, Dennis, just one follow-up question. I know you've been looking at the um these sidewalks for years well before even the construction project started and um the condition or the failing nature is that what we're what we showed the the board
here tonight consistent with your experience over the last couple years even at before construction had started. >> Yes. However, >> yes. Uh we actually looked at the uh driveway aprons uh well before the construction began because there were
several pieces that were damaged well before the project started. I do agree that several of them were additionally damaged and we're looking to not only uh replace the slate um on the other sections of the sidewalk because again we want to make sure that the sidewalks are um easy for uh community members to
be able to walk but specifically again on the driveways we just want to make sure that the size vehicles that we use uh because again we're an institution we just don't have regular vehicles we have some heavy equipment that sometimes have to be used since our staff actually manage the landscape on all these homes.
It's not an outside contractor that does it. It's the seminary staff that does it. And the vehicles that we have range anywhere from uh two-ton vehicles to a 4-tonon vehicle depending on the work that we're doing. So, we want to make sure that again those walkways are safe for everybody including our residents
that will be there as well as community members. And again, this is something an application that has been done throughout Princeton. I personally walked I think the town a few times to make sure that we were not uniquely disturbing or doing something that was
not already done in the district. Um so that's all I want to say. Thank you. >> All right. Thank you. All right. Elizabeth, did you have any further >> just Okay. >> Just one thing. We're certainly open to as we said during the um the
presentation um the the screening techniques certainly interested in in input um um on how best uh to do that. We had kicked around also uh while our proposal was to use the same type of panel. Um if you'll noticed or recall that there was a top and a bottom
portion perhaps uh just using u the bottom portion or or some other treatment. We're our our desire is to to um screen what is not a um residential style parking area from from the street and there are lots of ways to do that and we'd be certainly open to feedback
on on other ways to do that. >> Okay. Thank you. All right. Well, maybe we need to go specifically now property by property. Um so starting with 44 Mercer
I think um other than the the blue stone um as far as the wall goes um I >> you mean the fence
>> I the fence the f as far as the wooden fence goes um I see the issue on on safety and visibility and um also
I don't know if extending the fence makes it better. So um I don't know other comments on that. >> I I I do have a comment and it it does have to do with like the historic
character of of downtowns and how things are built closely together. Um, I work out of an office at four Nassau Street, which has a um, tall brick wall along the side of the driveway all the way out
to the street. And if we didn't have kind of constant reminder within the building as good tenants of that space to look in that mirror and make sure we don't um, cause a problem with pedestrians, it's a very real problem.
Um, and I think that Joe brings up a good point. I guess in the past there was the um the other agency, the other commission that would look at turning radiuses and safety that I guess some of that responsibility is now ours.
>> Yeah. >> So, it's kind of hard to ignore that point that was just brought up by the public. Uh, I don't know what to do about it, but I I I would say from my own experience, uh, driving into that driveway for
many, many, many, many years, um, that I still come out there and and, you know, stomp on the brakes that I've forgotten to look carefully enough or some kid is on a little scooter going faster than his parents realize. And, um, it would
just be horrible. Would a lower fence with still that see-through top give some of the um shielding that I think is nice that you want to provide um be another option? I I just feel sitting here I I can't be silent on that. So
there's there are my thoughts. Thank you. >> Right. Any other um points of debate about the application for 44? >> Yes, Elizabeth. So, just to kind of
follow the vein of the fence, I'm just wondering is the applicant opposed to using plant material to do to serve as visual buffer? Is there uh is what's the the strong um >> as we said we're we're open to >> Oh, okay.
>> I'm I >> some >> Yeah, >> again I think that we we are open to either option. Uh I think that with troubles in regards to the uh blocking of the road. Uh maybe a compromise is actually
instead of putting two panels just putting one panel uh on one side making still visible uh and you have now eight about 6 feet I think uh or 8 ft of view for any pedestrian that might be coming down the road. So if you look at that
image right now uh you would fit two 8ft panels in there. So maybe the compromise is just putting one panel leaving the other half open. So again, anybody that's driving in or out are able to see pedestrians on the sidewalk.
>> So I guess the question I have is it's you're proposing at the same height as the other one, which is six feet and it doesn't really need to be six feet to screen the parking area. Um, and as David said, perhaps you could put a
lower one or maybe as you know, as I recommended, maybe some vegetation. And again, either one does not have to go to the edges the way that you had originally designed it. Both options could bring it back. Again, I mean, I'm looking for uh an opportunity to have
less hardscape if you could do with planting. Um, you know, walking along that property from the corner of Mercer down Alexander, I just feel that there's a wall of that fence there and it just feels like I'm, you know, that my
viewshed is narrowed to just the right of way and it's not allowing um the vistas to go beyond, especially if you have a higher fence. So, if there's an opportunity to to load and add greenery, I mean, that would be my recommendation.
One other comment I do want to say is that we do have an electric charger for uh the resident in the back that you could clearly see. Um and by putting at least one fence panel, it will kind of hide that fact from anybody else uh with shrubbery obviously during the winter
and fall or late fall that still will be visible for people and so we want to give them that little privacy at least for their vehicles. >> Okay. Yes. >> Sorry. Um, I I almost feel like we're
working very hard to hide something that's that's not particularly offensive. It's a few cars and there are a few cars parked on the street. Um, and I'm wondering if, you know, it's going to actually look more out of character to
do one panel or half height or, you know, maybe like choose the safest option, have nothing. And I don't know. I I don't I find the the fence sort of out of character with the with the
streetscape in general, but >> All right. Um um well, as David said, I think we have the burden of not just the aesthetics, but the safety as well. And I think um the concern
is that um keeping it open might just be a safer option. Um >> Madam Chair, might it be possible to have a condition that would have the
town's engineer take a look at it for assistance? I mean, this has been um it's a challenging process. you know, we we we kind of uh have been at this for a couple of months, but only just at this moment kind of get to think about and react, you know, and in another application,
>> we'd be saying, well, let's let's and I'm not suggesting this, you know, have a landscape subcommittee look at it and figure out this detail. Obviously that is not what we're suggesting but but but ultimately if there's an opportunity for you know if there is a safety or or
viewshed issue not viewshed view um site triangle issue um it would be helpful to to get some feedback on that. Um, >> so are you proposing that um the applicant have an opportunity to talk to engineer and then come back to HPC on
this one? I'm I'm saying that a condition um of approval could be that that could be finalized with engineering um and the final detail at similar to what we might do in another in a larger application. Um
>> I guess it depends on how the HBC views whether putting a fence or no fence or planting. >> Right. I I think if it were planting, I don't think there would be any question that it would be safer. Um, and I think the the point was that
having just one panel is kind of awkward looking. Um, so is it is it possible to that we could
make a condition that there be some kind of planting there screening instead of a a fence? I um I if we look at the orange scrim that's up there um whether it's
fencing or planting, it's still going to obscure a sighteline. So um I think the material is not the issue so much as the height and the extent of the screen if any. I
think that's the question. Then to Charlotte's point where she says that she feels nothing is really needed. I kind of >> I think this this street while you know in some ways it appears to be
residential it is part of a campus and so it's a bit of a different condition. It's um and which to me allows for a few cars in one play, you know. >> Okay. Yeah,
>> understood. That's if that's the board's desire, then >> we'll check it out. >> Yeah. >> All right. So, so I get the sense that um there isn't uh much enthusiasm for the fence as far as the planting goes,
replacing the apron and the the trees. Are there any comments, questions with that, Madam Chair? Yes. So, I'll um um bring up some of the points that were in the
report about the landscape. Is this working? Sorry. Um and it's kind of repetitive to the same comments that were made for all the properties. I understand why um ornamental trees are proposed. There's kind of a branding
that's kind of in place for the seminary in addition to trying to frame the building. And as a landscape architect, I understand, you know, planting and framing the house. However, historic properties are a little bit different. We don't want to hide it. I mean they
are um the architecture of the building especially many of these Steman houses are ones to be um shared and viewed. Um and I think that there is opportunity to still have trees and other landscaping added but I think that when you put it
right in front of the house that really distracts from the intention of the historic streetscape. So, I would ask the HPC to really look at the placement of where they're putting those trees and also the um
species. So, you've got the um the um dragon lady um which is a very narrow columner tree that can grow high. Uh the one next to Mercer Road as mentioned in the report, it doesn't have needles like
other evergreen trees. It's a you know, it's a holly tree. So you've got kids going by and there is very narrow space there. It's from like maybe three and a half to less than that in width. And yes, it grows maybe, you know, four to
five feet wide. Um but at the same time, I think that you want to be cognitive of where you're putting planting and how it looks against a historic building. So does that type of plant complement or appropriate for the
historic house? I think that that's something that HBC should consider and I and I think that they did a good job of showing where they could place it in between windows, but the question is, is it the right plant for that property and
is it the right spacing also? All right. Um well those are pretty uh consistent throughout the all the applications. Um
I so I don't know um if maybe Um, the plans are shifted. >> Ryan, could you take it to the site plan where you had the uh Yes. Oops. Back.
>> Um, right. >> And did you have one with the side also? I think you had one that showed both >> for 44 Mercer. >> Yes. >> Yeah, >> that one. Yes. Thank you. Right. So
the Holly um I I So you're concerned that someone who's on the sidewalk is going to it's going to interfere encroach on the sidewalk.
>> Well, two things. one, is it the appropriate species for the property? Um, and two, is it there enough room for it to grow properly? Because if you look at the circle, obviously there's part of
it that is um going to be growing towards the building and then there is then it's going to be at the edge of the sidewalk. So, those are just the two things for HBC to consider. Um, and I think that they addressed the one dog
wood um, well where they talked about why it's placed in a certain area and it is between windows, but then I'm concerned about the um, I believe it's the lilac tree in the front. Again, it's right in the front. Perhaps it could be moved on the other side of the porch.
Um, but I know that there is a street tree right there as well. Correct. There's a in the right of way. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, um perhaps maybe push it back so it's more in line with the porch or
close to the porch and not so much this much towards the street. But, um again, it's right in front of the building. >> We're open to removal if they don't want the dragon lady. We are hoping to not have them in those locations.
>> Or even a a substitute plant material. >> Yeah. >> Uh what what about maybe um so what about maybe like some tall hydrangeas? They're not going to obscure the house as much and they're really beautiful.
That would be really nice. And if you move them kind of like a little bit more even like in this location, that would be okay. or like moving them a little bit towards the the edges of the house might work as well. >> Maria, are you talking about the one in the front yard or the sideyard plant?
>> Um, this side one, the uh the green triangles. >> Okay. >> Oh, I'm I'm not sure about the the overall maintenance and season >> seasonal appeal. Um I mean I guess I don't want to micromanage
their their application. I I think the question is will the Holl's um interfere with pedestrians? Um and I guess I want to ask the landscape architect
about that. >> Um in my opinion, no. That um they can easily be maintained to stay clear of the walk. However, as Dennis said, we're we're willing to eliminate the holl if that's what the committee would prefer, but we would like to keep the flowering
trees. >> Right. Are there any other comments on the holl's? >> I just want how what is the dimension between the edge of the sidewalk and the house where the holl are? >> It's about three and a half feet.
>> Three and a half feet. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, you just keep on top of them so they don't grow. >> Well, again, we're we're willing to to eliminate them from the plan.
>> All right. So, if we eliminated the holl's and we eliminated the fence, would there be agreement with the rest of the application? Yeah. All right. So would there be a
motion? >> You have to use the microphone. >> Oh, okay. Great. >> Oh. Move for approval of the plans for 44 Mercer Street with the
applicant taking away the Elix Dragon Lady, but could come back to us with a different plant that might work um more socially better. Um and oh, and and not to have the um the the last two fence
sections put in, but they could put in low growing. Oh, that's that's my opinion. I was going to say low growing landscape, but we haven't talked about that, so take it out. Um, that that's the motion. >> Uh, Matt, excuse me. Um, >> with part of this application is their
driveway. So, I think the HBC has to make a determination how they want to >> address the treatment of the driveways, whether they're going to allow for them to put colored concrete or if they're going to want them to um put install new
blue stone. Well, I I'm looking at this photo with the drive and there's quite a bit of block in it and I'm wondering if >> you mean Belgium block. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I gave mine to Ryan.
>> But yeah, but but the the blue stone sidewalk is is consistent with the blue stone sidewalk throughout that side of >> and I don't know. >> Okay. So, the Belgian block serves as the driveway apron in this picture instead of concrete.
>> Right. So, we're saying the apron can be concrete, but the >> just just the sidewalk, we're asking that to be slate or blue stone. >> The apron is concrete now. Just
>> Yeah. Okay. All right. So, >> Oh, wait. Is is is that apron concrete now? >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> Okay. That one right there that I mean not the apron, the sidewalk. >> Sidewalk is blue stone, right? >> Apron is concrete. The sidewalk is blue
stone. >> Blue stone, >> right? Okay. >> I can I make one? This this might not be a popular opinion, but um I actually think that if the sidewalk is where it
crosses the driveway, if it is, which I think you called out, a tinted concrete, tinted to as close as you can get to blue stone that there is an argument. I mean, the blue stone can be a little
rougher underfoot. it can, you know, it can move and that there is an argument to have a smooth surface across the driveway where people don't I mean it's a safety issue in a way. Oh, where
people don't even have to look down, you know, it's it's the smoother. You can just cross the driveway quickly without So anyway, I Yeah. So, so Charlotte, you're supporting the
tinted concrete. >> I'm supporting tinted concrete. >> That's the color that's being suggested, the French gray for the tinted concrete. >> All right. Okay. >> This is This is the concrete, >> right?
>> All right. So, >> and we should mark those samples. >> Yep. because they'll I'm sure they will go in with the application materials somehow as exhibit A9. >> Okay.
>> So, is the motion to include the tinted concrete as suggested? >> I will put it I will include it in this motion that the rest of the commission can vote it up or down just so we get a a motion on the table. >> All right. All right. So that's been
moved by David and seconded by Charlotte. >> Madam Chair, with apologies. One, as to the dragon lady, we are happy to remove them entirely. I I did hear perhaps that there might be alternatives that perhaps could be done without us fully returning
in that kind of subcommittee style. Um if if the board has considered that, we we would be happy to provide more, you know, a substitute um that perhaps cannot be determined at this moment. Is that okay if we do an administrative approval?
>> So either they'd be removed or there'd be an appropriate substitute chosen. >> Yeah, I'd be fine with that if HBC supports it. >> Okay, I support it. You're a landscape architect. >> No. >> Okay. All right. So,
>> and and Shirley brings up to Well, we'll do this in discussion. The >> um >> right that comes that comes next. So, don't worry. We're going to we're going to vote on that. >> Property by property. Right. So >> yeah, this is just 44. >> Just so I know for that one, it's for with regard to the driveway apron and
the sidewalk that crosses over the driveway, it's to be >> the tinted concrete. >> Tinted concrete. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And then what was the review at a later time for >> um instead of the dragon lady, it's
another plant. >> Okay. That >> to be determined. >> Okay. but without having to come back to full commission, >> right? As administratively. >> Okay, I think we're ready to vote. >> Okay, so this is um
44 Mercer. um if I heard correctly um remove the eyelocks dragon lady and for the applicant have an opportunity to come back administratively for a different plan and the remove the fencing
and um support the tinted concrete. So that's what we're voting on here. Miss Satderfield. >> Okay. Sorry. Are you going to vote? >> Ready to vote now? >> Okay. Shirley's ready now. >> That's a different property.
>> Okay. >> We're going to pass a lot of these tonight. >> Okay. Yeah, we got this one. >> Are you guys ready? >> Okay. >> Okay. All right. >> Miss Satderfield. >> Yes.
>> Mr. Shatskin. >> Uh, no. on the basis of wanting to replace the blue stone in kind. >> Okay, Mr. Shore made the motion. It's hard to go against it. Um, so I guess I have to say yes.
>> Miss Freriedman. >> Yes, >> Miss Croll. Um, I'm an alternate. Am I voting? >> Freda is out today. Yes.
>> Uh, no. >> Miss Capazolei. >> Yes. >> Um, are we supposed to ask Maria also to vote or is it just Yes, >> I think Maria should vote too since we are missing two. >> Yeah. If you're down two, have two alternates.
>> Y uh no. >> Okay. Uh >> oh. >> It's a tie. >> What? >> All right, let's talk. >> So, that means it didn't pass. So, um maybe we can get another motion,
>> right? >> So, would someone else like to make a motion? Sure. I propose all the the same adjustments that we're making plus replacing the sidewalk in
kind with blue stone. >> Okay. >> All right. All right. Same motion as previous. >> I just want to be clear on that one. Can the So, the apron would be tinted concrete and then the sidewalk that crosses the apron would be blue stone. >> No, I think the apron is Apron wouldn't
regular com before you go I we have seven voting members >> we had one two three four five oh did was did I count wrong one two three four one >> so I I counted four yes votes out of seven I am sorry right I apologize I
counted wrong um there was four yeses and three nos so the motion passed >> okay my apologies >> all All right. So, the motion passed. So, I guess we go
on to 1517. Um, and here we're talking about the landings, uh, consolidating the landing into one landing.
Um, and then there's a cherry tree and the widening of that walkway on the side, too. >> Oh, and widening the walkway. That's right. And widening the walkway on the side. So,
>> is that your motion? >> I Is that Yeah, that's the motion. >> Second. Okay. So, consolidate the landing, uh, match the existing concrete and
widen the walkway. Um, all right. I I don't think I can move it. >> Yeah. All c could you show that other site plan
one similar to the one you had for 44. >> Yes. Okay. That makes it easy >> to um I think you were about to point out the whether the um
the sidewalk extenders would be changed or consolidated perhaps. >> I guess the comment I made is that it no longer aligns when you have a consolidation. So, how um I mean this maybe it doesn't bother HPC or just
wanted to bring it to their attention. I'll >> just say we're we're agnostic to that. Um wasn't part of the application, but um >> Oh, those two little >> Yeah. >> strips there. Um which don't really serve a purpose.
>> I think it used to when >> Yeah. I >> you know when you either got dropped off or you were crossing the street whatever. Um but I guess the the question I have is
>> um the individual properties seem to have some differential in the way that they access ingress and eress to the property. So, this one obviously you
have two separate walkways to a common landing, but then you do have your own stairs. I believe that there's a railing in between it. Um, so when you come in, if you're just coming from the public right away, you're going you're you're
centered on it, but then you have to go back out to the side of your section because all the handles on the doors are on the ends of it. I mean, not that it matters, but I'm just wondering um is there uh kind of a unique
design to this to kind of emphasize the individuality even though they are, you know, sidebyside duplexes. Um you know, just something for HBC to consider. Is it an opportunity for that small island to really have some better
planting than what it's been in the past? cuz most of the time this is just shrubs, you know, but there is always opportunity to do better. Or maybe HPC doesn't care. And then on the side sidewalk, it's 24 in now. And I believe that they're uh proposing 30 in
>> 36. >> Oh, 36. Okay. Um and then I guess the question I had is you said that you were willing now does the seminary also um own the adjoining property? Okay. Correct. Because I know originally your
application was actually to consolidate them into one, but I think that that's probably a problem because then you have to have like an access easement. I guess Derek would have asked for that or something. >> You just wanted to eliminate the one on the right actually >> just al together just Okay.
>> And and because it is a access to uh >> unused. >> Yeah. That emergency one could leave there and just walk on the grass. It doesn't need to be >> Okay. >> paved. So, oh, so will you be coming back to ask for that to be removed or >> that's different application. So, if you
wanted to allow us to remove it, we could remove it. So, we could keep it. That's what you wish. >> I guess the point I'm making is if you've got two sidewalks so close to each other, you're going to extend it another, you know, foot or whatever,
then you've got like this little strip in between it and then you've got this concrete going in between the two properties. I mean, if you are able to eliminate that then it doesn't look like it's so much pavement along the side prop you know because all
these lots are narrow it >> but I mean so that's for the the the commission to decide but so those are my points I was trying to >> so part of this is also removing that little strip on the on the right side
>> we're certainly very agreeable to that >> okay all right and then um I I don't know. My sense with the landing is consolidating it would make it look less fussy. Right now, I feel like it's detracting from the architecture because
it sort of zigs and zags, does sort of weird stuff. But I don't know. Is there >> is is that not a good uh place for a tree? >> Oh, that little section there. >> Yes, right there.
Um, the question is, is is that an appropriate spot for a tree? And um, maybe you could speak to that, but I'm thinking that it would block >> well, a lot of the home. >> I I think I have two thoughts on that point. One is that it's not a very large
space. Um, and two is Miss Kim has been arguing against having a tree in front of the building. So um to my eye the paving that's there now dominates the view and to have to reduce the extent of paving would really be an improvement
for the whole composition. the um is there a photograph of the cuts that line up with the two front sidewalk steps to the curb because I have a question.
Are those pieces of blue stone? Are they concrete or does anybody know? >> They're pieces of blue stone. I believe if you're removing that one one run of sidewalk that goes to the um fire stairs, could you also
remove those two strips to go out to the street? Yes. >> And then the whole issue of >> Yes. >> consolidating that stairs. Um it won't have the awkwardness that I think somebody was mentioning earlier. Well, I I also um personally feel that
encouraging a midblock crossing on a street as busy as Alexander is is a safety issue. So, I think it would be better to remove those anyway. >> Okay. So, is that a motion?
Yeah, if we can remember all of it, it was to >> So, we're consolidating the landing, getting rid of the two strips by the street, allowing them to get rid of the little strip on the side, the right hand side, and >> widening the other one.
>> And widening the other one. And what about the material of the landing? The new landing. >> So, with with with um unlike the ones that were actual stairs, this one I believe would need to stay in concrete. There's just not enough room. There's
not enough steps or risers to have that material make sense here. >> Well, and also the application is to leave the landing at the base of the steps from the building because there's nothing wrong with that. We're just trying to repair the damaged pieces.
>> So, the piece from steps down from the house paving area step down. At this point, we wanted to push them together in the middle. Do they line up with the width of the piece that's at the bottom of the stairs or
are they just indented on both sides from it? Just so I understand it. Or maybe you have to make a sketch. >> Narrower. I mean, you could show the Yeah. the site plan. >> So, the the as you come down the steps from the house, the first landing is fine and it's proposed to remain. Mhm.
>> And so from that point, we would strike a center line and create a 6ft walk leading to that landing in concrete to match. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> Just so I have a picture of it. >> Okay.
>> So that >> Yep. >> Did that complete the motion? >> I think we got that. Yeah. So is there a second? >> Okay. Charlotte seconds. Okay. >> Um, Madame Chair, could I just make a comment? The removal of the sidewalk is
actually on another lot. So, um, maybe what we could have HPC is recommend that um, when the applicant comes in that they don't need to come before HPC and that we could just support administratively, >> right? That that would be an administrative. >> Thank you very much.
>> Yes. Okay. >> Is there a driveway with this one? No driveway. >> No. >> Okay. Am I supposed to Oh, sorry. >> I think we're voting. >> Miss Satderfield. >> Yes.
>> Mr. Shatskin. >> Yes. >> Mr. Shore. >> Yes. >> Miss Freriedman. >> Yes. >> Miss Croll. >> Yes. >> Miss Maria.
>> Yes. >> Chairperson Capazali. >> Yes. >> Okay. We're going to move to 19 Alexander Road. That's the one with the retaining wall. So, um, there's been various opinions on
the retaining wall, whether to let it go back to grass or whether to preserve the retaining wall and have it rebuilt. Um, so
I think Elizabeth had recommended if that it might be better to remove it uh because it doesn't keep with the rest of the landscape.
I tend to agree with that. Um but I know Shirley you like it. >> Yeah, I'm that's the wall I'm concerned about. Is it that they're going to repair it rather than to take it down? >> Well Well, they they said if if we
approved it, they would rebuild it. >> Okay. That's as long as it's rebuilt. >> Okay. So, but you want to keep it. Mhm. >> You want to keep that? All right. So, you want to make a motion >> to keep the retaining wall
>> and replace the apron with the concrete and rebuild the steps. Um, plant the dogwood. >> Madam Chair, I think we need to also
talk about the aluminum fence, >> right? And then there's an aluminum fence in the back. >> Um, are you okay with that? >> Yeah. Okay. >> All right.
What's the um material for the steps and it's also the installation of the code compliant railings. >> Right. >> So, so the steps would be concrete with blue stone. We we had presented two possible all
concrete or concrete with blue stone treads. Okay. And both plans are in there. Um it's up to the board what what they'd prefer. >> Can excuse me. Also the landing is the landing then going to be blue stone clad
concrete. >> If the request is to do the steps with blue stone cladding then the landing would be blue stone as well. >> Okay. Thank you. And this application is also to widen the stairs, I believe, because they want
to be able to install new railings, >> right? And I understand that. Um, all right. So, Shirley, are are you making a motion? I know you feel strongly about the retaining wall.
>> I'll make a motion that we accept >> the the 19 Alexander. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Okay. All right. Is there a second? >> Okay. David seconds. Okay. This is 19. Miss Satderfield.
>> Miss Satderfield. >> Yes, >> Mr. Shatskin. >> No, >> Mr. Shore. >> Yes, please. >> Yes, >> Miss Freriedman. >> Yes,
>> Miss Crawl. No, >> Miss Maria. >> No, >> Miss Caposi. >> Yes. >> One, two, three. Okay. Motion passed.
>> Okay. Our next one is 2527. [Music] Um so this is uh making the risers standard. Um
the risers are all different dimensions. Um >> if it helps Madam Chair, this has all of I believe all the elements of the immediately prior application minus the wall.
>> Okay. So these stairs will be concrete with the blue stone. >> Again, assuming that's the board's preference, it would be. Yes. >> Uhhuh. All right. So other than the fence, there's
it's pretty much the same. So is there a motion to approve? So um these steps, it also has an option for the treads to be blue stone. Is that correct? >> Yes, I think. Yep. That's
>> So And this And this has a driveway as well. Yep. So, is there a motion on 20 527
with the blue stone cap option for the steps? >> So, moved. >> Okay. Is there a second? >> All right. Thanks, Charlotte. Um, Miss Soldderfield, >> yes.
>> Mr. Shatskin, >> no. >> Mr. Shore, >> yes. >> Miss Freriedman, >> yes. >> Miss Crawl, >> no. >> Miss Maria,
>> no. Miss Capazolei. >> Yes. >> Motion passed. >> Okay. Now we're at 29 Alexander Street. This is the one with the path that goes
to campus. Um so this is extending a fence uh replacing the apron. There's the path lighting and then there's the planting of the dogwood.
And for this one, Elizabeth, did you have comments again on the dragon lady? >> Yes. uh similar as before although um I believe which property is this
>> 29. >> This is 29. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So 29 I believe on the the the side elevation they have more um uh walls that have less fenistration
versus the one on 31. So there is a consistent design there. So I think the HBC wants to really consider that again it's the same planting that they had before which was the dragon lady um same
columner evergreen style and in addition I also talked about that dogwood that sits right in front of the the house if perhaps it could be shifted. >> I I will point out though that um there's a significantly larger planting area along this drive than there was at
44. So, I do think the dragon lady is appropriate here. >> Okay. I'm sorry. Could you say that again? >> The planting area on both sides is significantly larger than it was at 44. So, I think Dragon Load is is an
appropriate plant. >> So, again, it depends on how HPC feels about the um the design of the columner on both sides. And I understand that they're really kind of create almost
like a prominade effect with the lighting. I think the lighting is going to be benign except for when it's turned on at night. You know, you're not going to see it during the daytime, >> right? It's pretty subtle. >> Yeah. I was just wondering if the um if you could tell us what that foot candle
is that's shown for the lighting. I >> it's uh 01. >> Okay. >> At seven feet. >> Okay. All right. So, um I think we've gone through all the
points. Is there a motion? >> Julie, may I ask a question first? Um with putting in the the U path lighting and obviously putting in the new landscaping, a lot of digging is going to go on
there. any chance that that driveway can get resurfaced or >> we are going to be uh planning to planning for that. >> It's needed. Yes. Thank you. >> Just for driveway re resurfacing they would not have to come back to HPC, right? Okay.
>> No, just replacement in kind. Yeah. >> Just want to make that clear. >> Thank you. Just can I clarify on on all the houses you guys want to remove that slate on the right away? Correct. Like what you proposed on 15. We have the
same scenario on 19 on 25 on 29 and on 31. I believe >> the concrete >> that slate piece not on the not on our property technically. It's on the rightway.
>> That those little pieces. Yeah. Okay. >> If you could reuse them. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Right. Back to 29. Um, so 29 has a driveway, apron, sidewalk.
It has the fence, lighting, and landscape. Right. Any other questions? And if not, is there a motion? Can we use the template? We've been
using a motion to approve with the the concrete replacement at the driveway apron, the landscaping that they're proposing, the lighting that's being proposed. Um, and the Yeah, the landscape that's being proposed. I say that.
>> Yeah. >> With dragon lady would be okay there. >> And the ornamental. Yeah. Um, >> is that all the points? I >> I think that was it. And the fence. >> Um and then there's a fence in the backyard. That's wood. >> Yes. Only wood on this one.
>> And the wood fence >> in the back. Yeah. I I think that's it. All right. Is there a second? >> Who? >> Oh, thanks, Shirley. >> Who Who made the first motion? David. >> David. And Shirley seconded.
Miss Satderfield. >> Yes. >> Mr. Shatskin, >> no. >> Mr. Shaw, >> yes. >> Miss Freriedman, >> yes. >> Miss Croll,
>> no. >> Miss Maria, >> no. Chairperson Capazolei. >> Yes. >> Motion passed. >> Okay. Last one is 31 Alexander Street.
So this is the uh same thing with the apron. Um same type of landscaping with the cherry trees as well. Um And
another wood fence. >> Okay, Brian, I was wondering if you could show that picture. Oh, there it is. Thank you. >> So, [Laughter] So, so I guess the question or the
concern I have is, as you can tell, the backside of this house has a lot of windows on it. Um, and they're pretty closely spaced together. I'm just wondering how that holly tree is going to fit into that area.
Well, again, the intent is to have it located between panels of windows, >> right? But I mean, the I mean, maybe it's just the the perspective of the picture, but it looks like there's no way to put it in between any windows
without it blocking it as it's growing and even before it hits maturity. >> Well, I I believe there is. Well, in the area where there's the um you know mechanical
uh access, would there be one there to sort of camouflage to to >> Yes. >> So, one there and then >> which mechanical
>> the the electrical panel that's >> Oh, >> by the front door. >> Okay. It doesn't look like it's there to the drawing. >> So the holly would kind of be in front of that. So you wouldn't see the electrical panel and then
>> after the window you have enough room for >> really three before the the windows start, >> right? So I So yeah, so as I said, it's really the back portion that seems to have more fenestrations than the front.
So, I mean, I guess we could say provided they don't block any windows or >> that' be a good condition. >> Yeah. Okay. So, um and they can just uh either reduce re
or realign the plantings in consultation >> with Elizabeth as an administrative change. Yeah, if they want to >> if if there's a possibility to swap out the location, I'm sorry. Is that what you're saying? Would be administrative for the last one.
>> I guess the concern is if anything is blocking windows >> that we would just kind of work that out administratively as a condition. Okay, understood. I think that makes sense. >> Okay. >> E either that or or eliminate a tree, you know. >> Okay. Yeah. Or eliminate the last tree
>> and it wouldn't even be close to a window. Yeah. >> Okay. Um, so is there a motion on this one? >> Yes. Let's have a motion.
>> Um, do we need to repeat it or is it well enough recorded? >> Um, I think that we went over everything very similar to what was on 29. So, >> right. >> Okay. So, moved.
>> Is there a second? >> All right. Thanks, Charlotte. Um, >> Miss Soldderfield. >> Yes. >> Mr. Shatkin, >> Mr. Shore. >> Uh, yes. >> Miss Freriedman.
Miss Croll. >> No. >> Miss Maria. >> Chairperson. Capazolei. >> Yes. >> Motion passed. >> Okay. >> Thank you all so much. >> Thank you. Um I have an administrative
question for probably Elizabeth and HPC. >> Would you want all of these in one resolution or separate resolutions for each property? You could probably do one and I'll just copy it for each file if you include all of them.
>> Yeah, because I think the the like whereas clauses a lot of the information is going to be the same. It's just the relief that'll be different. I think >> I think that would work. Thank you. >> All right. Well, thank you for coming in. >> Thank you all so much.
>> All right. Our next application is um 210 Cherry Hill Road. Come on up. >> Hi. >> Yep. >> Oh yeah. Is it on?
>> Yeah, you got to push a button. >> I'm not very good at this. >> There we are. >> Yeah. >> That's why I don't have fancy pictures up. >> All right. Can we swear you in? >> Yes. >> Okay. Okay. Do you swear that the testimony you're about to give this evening is the whole truth to the best
of your knowledge? >> Whole truth. Nothing but the truth. >> Thank you. Okay. So, this is for um a pool house and I think we got these drawings uh last
month. So, correct. >> Hopefully you went back to your packets. >> Um but Elizabeth, did you want to read from your report? >> Sure. I'll just do something really quick. And um this application did
require demolition noticing because they are taking an existing pool house. Uh they're demolishing to build a new. So I'm just going to ask um our HPC attorney if all noticing is in order for us to proceed.
>> Yep. It looks like they met all of those notification requirements. >> Thank you. >> Yes. So, the applicant princon theolog I'm sorry, wrong one. Uh, sorry, hold on. Get my report. >> Do you want me to read from the report?
>> If you could, I could just generalize it, but I actually don't know where my report is for this one. I'll look there in a minute. Um, but I I'll just >> I can read the comments if you want me to read the comments. >> I just wanted to put the uh application
address on record that this application is at 2 Thank you. 210 Cherry Hill Road. Um it is part of the Tuscalum historic district buffer which is a type one which is uh viewed from public rightway
and anywhere else within the historic district. So this makes it really simple because obviously I'm going to go through it pretty fast. Um so as mentioned this is in the the Tuscalum historic buffer. It's set pretty far
back from the street. However, it is type one. Um, it's situated on the west side of Cherry Hill Road between the intersecting east streets of Chest View Drive and Flet Drive. Um, sorry, mine was marked up.
Um, the zoning officer did review this and found that there was no um requirements for zoning. Um, the pool house is an existing octagon shape which um has a eight-sided hip roof with asphalt shingles, has vertical
woodboards, clad the exterior walls combined with sliding doors and fulllength windows. Um, and as mentioned, the applicant wishes to demolish this and place it on the footprint with a slight expansion to the
size. Uh it will be built next to the pool house and there is a small existing stone terrace that will be removed and existing stone walkway on the north side of the pool that will be realigned to accommodate the expansion of the
building footprint. Um there's some additional new stepping stones, porch entry installation for access for the new kitchen door off and there's also some relocation of landscape on the property in addition to new landscape.
Um the uh you can see the comparative sizes of the existing and proposed and the height is approximately the same height as it exists today. Um and then it just talks about the material
uh as mentioned this it does appear that the pool house is aging and replacement does seem reasonable and the building design is an improvement what currently exists. The existing house on the property is not historic, but because it is so close
to uh Tuscalum, it is to protect the buffers to that historic district. Um I believe that the applicant had addressed some of the questions I had on here which asked about the footprint and I'll leave that to him to talk about that. Um and then there are some
questions which are also addressed for the applicants. So, I'm going to turn it over to to him to be able to address them and answer any questions that the commission may have. Thank you. >> All right. Thank you. >> Uh we were here in 19 or in 2022 in May
for a larger addition to the house. Uh that I believe that was a zoom meeting, but this is now much better. Anyway, I'll just go briefly briefly through the drawings to make it simple and then open
it up to questions or discussions that you may have. Um, uh, the first thing I'd like to point out is that this little building that is 16 ft wide and 20 ft long
is 1350 ft from the road. It's 622 feet from the barn at Tuscalum. It's 821 feet from the main house at Tuscalum. And there are so many trees between all of this that you can't even see the pool
house from the main house. So, nobody's going to see it anyway. But we did do a nice job designing the new pool house. It's uh similar roof structure, slate roof, um copper gutters,
uh cedar shingles siding that is painted, windows are Marvin windows. Uh the lighting is uh similar to the lighting we used up at the main house. So, it's really just an
addendum to the request we had in 2022, only it's smaller and further away and nobody can see it. Uh, you can see on page HP3 the existing pool house and why it needs
to come down. Uh, you can see the new building proposed on HP4. And it has, as I mentioned, the slate roof with a similar slope roof to the main house. It's slate. The siding is
shingles. The lights are the same. The lights are uh temperature of 200 2,700 and they only have a uh 400 lumens. So, they're not very bright, but
they they do work well for the fixture that they are on the house and lighting the immediate area. [Applause] Uh, the windows that we're using down there are exactly the same as the
windows we put in on the original house in the kitchen. and they're just a large sliding door. And the the new ones work a lot better than they used to. We are adding something that's different. You'll see
on HP6 is there will be a structure uh uh ceiling porch that goes out from the back of the pool towards the swimming
pool itself. This is a structure that has louvered roof structure that's flat and you can open it up when it's nice and sunny, but if it's raining, you can close it down and it'll drain. So you
they gain an additional covered area >> for entertaining when they when it's uh when they want to. It will be painted white and uh as will the little trellis covers
on the back of the uh building that uh houses the storage units. Um it's pretty straightforward. It's pretty simple. I'll open it up to questions. Uh
>> it is sustainable as it can be. >> Our industry now is very sustainable. We try and do as much as we can with trees. Uh we're using slate. Uh we're using the trim is boral, which is a fly ash product that's been approved by you. Um
and painted white. So it's and it's on the same footprint as the old pool house was. So the destruction is minimal. The planting that is there now is going to be dug up, healed in, and then replanted
when we're done. So, there's no loss of trees. Uh, it's a pretty straightforward project. >> Okay. So, I'm just going to go off of Elizabeth's um comments. >> Okay. Um, so the lighting I guess
there's concern about if there's going to be any kind of light trespass and I mean it sounds like it's so secluded you can't even see the building but the will >> what's the concern >> will anyone see see the lighting
>> no >> from another property. Okay. Um let's see the the roof. There was a question if uh the roof height >> we looked at that the roof height of the
existing octagon is 4 and 1/2 in lower than the ridge of our new building. It's it's imperceivable >> for anybody to even notice that. >> Okay. >> So, we're going to leave it.
>> All right. Um, what will the color of the trellis and vine structure be painted? >> White. >> White. Okay. And um and just so you know, there's been a lot
of discouraging discouragement in planting ivy because it's invasive and it >> Yeah, I agree with that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Um, and then, um, will there be a new path to access the storage doors?
>> No, that's just going to be, uh, mulched. >> So, just walk on the mulch because it's not used that often. >> So, it's not worth putting blue stone stepping stones there. >> Okay. Um, there's a hickory tree.
>> Oh, the hickory tree is beautiful. Yes, we're protecting it. >> Okay. >> Yeah, it's a great trick. >> Yeah. So, making sure you protect that. Okay. So, >> we've got drawings for protection on on HP2. There are protections for the
tree. >> All right. Great. All right. Are there other questions about this application? >> No. I think I I tried to you know I always try to scout locations for our meetings. >> Couldn't get there. >> Couldn't get there. >> Yeah.
>> So to me that says, you know, unless there are other questions, I'm ready to put this to a vote. >> Yeah. I mean, it's really far from Tuscalum. >> Really far. >> So yeah. All right. Any other questions? Um, and
if not, would anyone in the public like to speak regarding this application? I don't see anybody. Okay. Um, >> I know the neighbors at Tuscalum and they like this.
>> Oh, good. That's good. Okay. Nice. Um, if not, if there's no other discussion, is there a motion? Sure. I'll move that we accept the application. I have to say as slight
footnote, if Elrich were here, he'd be arguing over some small architectural detail that he didn't like. >> I know. >> But >> I know. Bless his heart. I mean, >> but I miss that. But apart from that, >> yeah. Okay. >> I move to accept the application.
>> Is there a second? Okay. Thanks, Shirley. All right. Um, >> Miss Satderfield, >> yes. >> Mr. Shatskin, >> yes. >> Mr. Shore, >> yes.
>> Miss Freriedman, >> yes. >> Miss Croll, >> yes. >> Miss Maria, >> chairperson Capazolei. >> Yes. Thanks so much for coming in. >> Thank you.
All right, come on up, Princeton University. We're doing our best. We're doing our best. >> It's dark. >> Sorry. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Does um can we take just
a really quick break? Um, yeah, if anyone has to freshen up or anything, I'm sorry. It's been a long meeting. >> Yeah, it's right over around the corner. >> This way. Sorry.
>> Yeah, I know. Everybody does. So, I've been telling them maybe you want to go to the other one. It's going to be busy. >> Yeah, I think he wants us to be close to in case. >> Okay, let's see.
>> Right. >> I think I have my I think they also need a resolution because they because it just does not go anywhere but us. So >> I think all three are under our >> Thank you so much for being here. It was
kind of weird cuz um >> um you're >> okay. Well, I told Lisa, so the meeting that Lisa is at tonight >> in that town, I am not planning to. And
I told her, I'm not leaving to cover. >> She said, she was like, "Oh, you know, you want to cover Stockton for me?" I said, "I" And she was like, "Wait, wait, wait. You can't." >> Yeah. Yeah. You're the attorney. You can't be >> truly a civil attorney.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Hi, Sure. Thank you. That's so nice of you. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Hopefully not. >> Thank you. Yeah. I um I had heard that it said
>> we didn't have a conflict and I was like what the heck? >> I saw I'm sorry that's so confusing. causing speciality for like >> so it's essentially the same thing. I
mean, right? >> I mean, there's still the conflict. >> Yeah. Yeah. They Wow. This is >> I recommended just to change the >> Yeah, I know. I've never even heard of
that before. >> I Everybody here hates me. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> So it can but My eyes aren't good in darkness, so I have a flashlight I guess I'll use.
>> All right, everyone. Thank you for coming back. We really appreciate you hanging in there. Hello, Princeton University. >> Hello. >> So, let's
get this going. 184 18 to 40 Edwards Place. Um, application of the trustees of Princeton University. Um, Elizabeth has a report. Um, Elizabeth, did you want me to just go to the comments or do
you want to summarize? >> All right, >> you can go to the comments. Sure. But I believe that the the applicant has a presentation, right? >> Yeah. So, we'll just read the comments, then you can do the presentation and then >> Sounds great. >> Yeah. Um
just that the majority of proposed improvements are repair and when necessary replace which will be in kind. The new color scheme seems appropriate to the and compatible to the colors of other houses. Um
removal of the triple track storm system is an improvement. Um, I appreciate the details in documenting the building features. Uh, ex, it's recommended any existing
window weights remain in the weight boxes or to be stored for possible future use. Um, recommended that if LED is used for the night new lighting fixtures, the spectrum
be no greater than 2700 Kelvin. Um overall it's sympathetic to the historic fabric of the building. Um HPC should weigh the information the applicant presents regarding the age of the
existing windows and if there are greater differential uh or dimensions and if that's acceptable. And then there's a bunch of questions about
um have the six center units ever had decorative metal railings over the entries? Um when was the covered front porch removed?
Will the replacement of the front entry door hardware and the mailbox slot match the existing um product details? I think we've got that. Insert windows are proposes when window replacements.
Um, and so there's concern if matching the existing window. I guess the the dimensions of the insert windows, I guess you can address that.
Um, >> yeah, I think I was trying to say there is, um, that there's an advantage obviously for insert windows because you're able to retain more of the historic fabric. you can uh retain your um your sills, your trim, um you know,
the framing and everything like that. However, um the dimensions you you you can't get as accurate as matching all the window dimensions. So, that's what HBC should look at. And when you look at that differential chart that was created, uh the highlighted the dark ones are the difference of the quarter
inch, which is what um uh sorry, yeah, quarter inch, which is what HPC uses the former burough standards for anything greater than a quarter inch differential. Um is something that kind of puts up a red flag and says, "Hey, look at this a little bit more." But at
the same time, according to HMR study, they had stated that these were replacement windows. And I think that that's something that we'd like for them to address to see what was the age of these windows that were replaced. I understand that they were um double hung and now that they're um single, which um
were hard to actually tell from the picture. So, you know, if you could give a little information about that for HPC, too. So, that's what that comment was. >> Okay. And then um the material for the rear door replacement um seems like
there's a little inconsistency with some drawings. So maybe you can go into that. Um what's the color of the rear replacement door? Um the basement windows, a little question about those. And um do the existing
window wells require repair. So I think that's everything. All right. So take it away. >> Thank you. Um I'm Christopher Deg Gresia from Fagory Drinker Bidd and wreath
representing trustees of Princeton University. We're happy to be here this evening. Um this is involving 1840 Edwards which is essentially 12 uh units of faculty housing that's owned by the
university. Um this project tonight is essentially a maintenance and restoration project. I think it's something that the committee should be excited about. you know, this is a um an owner that is allocating resources to an older structure to take care of the
structure to maintain it and to bring in into um current codes up to current codes. Um so one of the guiding principles here and I think you'll see it through the materials is the preservation of the historic fabric. I
think we've done that very well here. But for the most part, we're looking at, you know, repairing and cleaning and repainting and repointing and in some cases replacement in kind. We do um have the window inserts that we are proposing
and as indicated, we're doing that to preserve the historic fabric and also allows us to remove um the the um storm windows so it'll look nicer from the street. So, we think it's a really very positive uh approach and um we're very
excited um about the project. We think it does elevate the streetscape and does great improvements for the structure itself. Um I should mention there are no changes to the architectural elements. There's no expansion. There's no
addition here. Like I said, it's really simply just taking care of and maintaining an asset. Um, unless you have any questions, I'd like to turn it over. We put together a a short 22 slide presentation. We can mark it as exhibit
A. Um, and I would like to introduce our architect, Brian Stevens, who is from HMR Architects. He's a licensed New Jersey architect. >> You could raise your right hand. Do you swear that the testimony you're about to give is the whole truth to the best of your knowledge? >> I do.
>> Thank you. >> Okay. >> Okay. Hi. Uh, thank you for inviting us here tonight. Um, as, uh, Christopher said, my name is Brian Stevens. I'm a licensed architect in New Jersey with HMR Architects. I'm an associate at at
HMR. Um, so I will um, we'll we'll go through this this presentation. I've attempted to address the comments we've received um that you began to go through. I've tried to address them in the the content of my presentation here. So, if I skip over any, we're we'll
certainly go back to it. Um, so, uh, starting off, uh, you know, as as Christopher said, the these are 12 townhouse units owned by the university. They're used as as faculty housing. Um, to the next slide, please.
>> It's located on the the southwest end of Edward's Place, and the front facade faces north. Um you can see on the the short deadend street the the amount of uh street frontage these 12 town houses occupy. Um the units themselves are are
relatively narrow 12 to 13 ft wide each but um when you line 12 of them up together it's takes takes up a lot of street front. Um next slide. We believe it was constructed um between uh 1885
and 1888. Um it appears on the 1890 Sanborn map and it is not on the 1885 map. Uh and then in the next slide um you'll see it is located uh within the Mercer Hill historic district as everyone's aware. Um next slide please.
Uh this photo was taken from the seminary um probably Steuart Hall in 1888. Um, it's the only historic image we uncovered of Edward's Place. And you'll see there you're looking at the rear elevation. That's a closer view.
Um, the buildings, al although all the rear porches have been reconstructed, which I'll I'll touch on. Um, the configuration has not changed. Um, you get a really good view of of uh what was happening here. The difference when they were constructed as worker housing in
the 1880s, the yards were individually fenced and there's uh there's outouses at the at the back end of the yard which not there anymore. Uh next slide. Um site improvements are relatively minor here. We are not touching any of
the existing sidewalk. Uh the driveway and parking lot will remain. We are not removing any trees from um any either side of the building, the front elevation or the rear. Um we are replacing the wooden fence in kind. Um
there's uh a gate at the end of each walk uh from the from the rear porch. Um this fence is, you know, near the end of its life and it's due to be be replaced and that's what we're we're taking care of in this project. Next slide. Um, very quickly, this is just the two
levels of the interior floor plan. Um, the proposed work is really a a refresh and as Christopher said, a maintenance project. We are not proposing any floor plan alterations of the interior. Um, we are replacing uh appliances and fixtures
and building systems. um in addition to um insulating the entire building envelope from the interior where we're removing interior finishes to get to the wall cavities. Uh next slide. Uh here you see the uh elevations uh the
long elevation across the the north facade and then typical elevations of the rear. Um on the the Sandborn map, um there is what appears to be a a continuous front porch along um along the whole building. Um which we've not
seen any other evidence of. I know the question of when was that removed. Um it it shows up on the same as the same designation on the Sandborn maps through 1918 and then there wasn't another depiction of of uh of that of the porch.
Um, architecturally looking at the front facade, there's no remaining evidence that a porch was ever there. Uh, it doesn't mean it wasn't there. Um, but this clabard and everything else appears to be original and and you know, we we can't speak to what was at the on that
porch. We're not proposing any changes to this front elevation. Um, no reconstruction of a porch. Um uh as for the uh the pediments over the pairs of entry doors, um the center two um so the the four units, there's two units in the
in each each side of the center line. Um there's no uh decorative metal railing above that. And again, there's no evidence on the facade that there was a railing there. Um we looked at the the cap of the the pediment. Um and uh again, we're not proposing to to add
one. We have no evidence that there was one there. Um you can see the the rear elevations. Um you know there's a an alley between each pair of units which is a nice way to bring some daylight further into the into the units. Um
there's existing um HVAC condensers in the in the alley. We are replacing those in the same location with with new systems. So there's no no changes proposed back here. Um these porches, um you'll note they're in the same
configuration as the historic photo, but we believe these were rebuilt, um certainly after World War II. Um uh we speculate around the 1970s. It's um nominal dimension lumber and plywood u cinder block and and you know, concrete
slab. It's it's very uh simple construction. Um there's, you know, some uh some initials and some writing in the concrete from the 1970s. That's why we we sort of place it there, but we don't have a record of when that is actually reconstructed.
No changes are being proposed to that. Um, next slide. >> Next slide. >> So, um, the work that we're proposing on the facade and it's typical on all all elevations is uh a repair. Um, all of
the painted uh wood surfaces, the architectural details, the wood clabber casing, um, everything is to remain. It's going to be prepped and painted. Um where there is damage, which um we've noted on our our on our uh application
submission, the more detailed drawings. Um where where things are damaged, we're replacing in kind with with wood profiles to match existing. Um no proposed changes here. Um and again, it's it's um in relatively relatively good shape.
Next slide. Um, part of the the window and door work that we're proposing and and we'll get into a little more detail on this is to remove the the triple track storm windows. Um then remove the the window
sashes themselves and replace them with uh insert windows uh a Marvin uh clad wood insert window um with insulated glass panels 6 over6 light pattern to to match the existing the uh front doors
are going to be um prepped and painted. Um the hardware the operating hardware is existing to remain. We have an image of that a little later on. um the storm doors, which are not original. These are aluminum storm doors. We're we're going to replace them with uh full light wood
storm doors um that will have just the storm panel, not a screen. Um and we'll give you more of a a full view of the of the existing door. And and just to answer one of the questions, we will be uh rep um the the um the knobs will
remain on the door, but we're replacing the um the male >> the male slot and the um the dead bolt. >> Okay. >> Um next slide. The uh stone foundation and the brick uh
stoops are all remaining with just maintenance and repair work. There's limited amounts of repointing. Um, at this point, we we don't anticipate the need to replace any of the the brick or stone. Um, again, they're all in fair condition. Um, but repointing will will
take place. The uh metal handrails are going to be prepped, primed, and and painted. Um, they're going to remain no alteration as well. The uh in the center image, you can see the existing uh numbering, light fixture, and uh fire alarm device. Uh we are replacing the
light fixture and the signage um which we'll show in a later slide. Next slide. Uh at the roof uh the existing roof membrane will remain. Um the chimneys will also remain and this hatch to um
what's essentially an inaccessible um small attic will also remain. There are a few new pen penetrations for um cast iron vent piping for plumbing. Um the way this roof is pitched uh it slopes
continuously from the front the north elevation to the back. So where these penetrations are happening further back um you're you're lower than the parapit. They're about 12 14 inches high. Um but they're not visible from from the street front due to the the receding elevation
of the roof as it slopes. Next slide. The uh exterior paint. This is the uh the scheme we've proposed in our um we submitted actual paint chips I believe in our application packet and we have full-size paint chips that we can we can
show uh because the color doesn't always come through accurately digitally. Um we did not complete a spectroscopic uh paint analysis but we did um collect paint chips. We sanded down um the paint finish to get down to bare wood. And as
we uh went through, we found different layers of other neutral tones. Um so um there's our our belief is that there was never a bold color scheme on this, nor would we want to propose something. Uh as I mentioned earlier, this takes up
quite a bit of the the street facade. And when you look at the adjacent properties, um something um more dramatic than this could could really dominate that end of the street, which is not what we'd want to do. Next slide.
>> And so these are these are the neighboring properties. You can see that um they're typically more ornate and a little more colorful than than uh at at 12 18 to 40 Edwards Place. Um so uh we feel very uh very comfortable with that
that color scheme. I I didn't mention um you know we we did pick it from uh a palette of colonial um revival colors um from the I think we even referred to um century of color the Roger Moss book look for different color palettes. Uh
next slide. So, uh, here are the front doors. Um, the interior view, um, up in the upper right corner, uh, with the proposed, uh, storm door, uh, wood storm. The mail slots are being replaced. Um, we are
proposing a, uh, an aged bronze finish, not a bright brass, um, and with the doors painted that uh, the that deeper blue you saw in the previous slides. Um, we also have their proposed uh, replacement signage. it is um using the
the font that standard for the university. Um again it's it's replacing what's there and essentially the same size and and layout. Uh we also have our uh proposed light fixture which we have uh cuts we can we can submit with uh
with our presentation here um at the you know uh color temperature the 2700 K uh temperature LED lights. Next slide. So, here are the uh existing windows. You can see the the triple tracks um
really tend to flatten out the the appearance of the existing windows. Um we we took apart um removed the casing on an interior of the window and found that uh the we believe the the weight pockets are are original. The weights
are still in the pocket that we opened up. Um the frame and the sill is all all uh original. The upper sashes have been fixed, turning them into a a single hung. Um the sashes themselves we believe were replaced. We do not know
when specifically they were. We would say um you know probably first half of the 20th century, maybe even later than that. Um the glass is is flat and clear. It's not wavy glass. And the uh divided
light the wood muttons are um if if if it was you know the sashes from the 1880s they the muttons would have been mortised all the way through the the frame. There's no evidence of that. We sanded to barewood and and uh um these these profiles are are the the actual
profiling on it is is kind of a more modern cut as well. Um so we we do not believe that these are the original uh sashes. Um, next slide. What we are uh proposing um is to leave
the frame and weight box in place um including the existing casing. Uh remove the sashes and the parting stop and in install a uh a Marvin cladwood insert window. Um the window itself would be,
you know, all of the operable parts would be new. Um there would be no um you know there's there's concerns with lead paint unoperable windows and housing used for family. Um these windows would be insulated glass um improving the energy performance overall
of the building that will will now be insulated. Um the existing mutton and the Marvin's mutton are both 5/8 inches wide. Um the we were using a simulated divided light um which which has the
spacer bar with between the panes of glass to to simulate the the depth you get um without the uh the the triple track on the exterior. Now um the shadow lines from the mountains and the the depth of the window is going to be more
u more evident. Um we also um you know the as we'll we'll show in the next slide there is the compromise where the daylight opening with the insert window is reduced from what it is presently. Um and that that is the compromise. But the
advantage is um we are not removing any of the existing um wood casing, the weight boxes. We're not touching the clabber. Um and given the relatively good condition of of of the exterior uh mill work, um we think this is the the
appropriate approach for this. Um the where the you know the improvement is is is worth that that compromise. Um we are you know demonstrating uh here as well the the daylight opening um from the exterior casing to the glass uh both
with the triple track and without it on the existing window and then the the new um the new dimension. You see that the the new sashes the the um styles are very slender but there has to be another you know that secondary frame that goes
with the insert window included as well. Next slide. Uh this is a little hard to read um up on the screen, but this is our our comparison where we um illustrate the actual uh differences in in dimensions
on the on the units, including the um top and bottom rail as well as the uh you know the the parting rail and the the p the size of the the lights. In each in each instance, um we'll be replicating the existing light pattern.
Six over six on the front elevations and two over two on the the rear and um interior elevations, meaning the you know the alleyways between the units. Next slide. Um these are just examples of of you know other projects that have used the
similar approach. Um just to short of having a mockup to show you this is you know uh recent examples of this. Next next slide. Um so in response to uh some of the comments we we received. We wanted to
show a few other uh images here. Um on the left you can see the existing uh entry door. Um and then we there's a photo of the the knob and scutchin. That hardware will uh remain. We're not proposing any change to that. Um the
male slot will be replaced and there's a a dead bolt that will also be replaced. Um the uh moving to the the right side, we are proposing a uh a we there was some discrepancy in in the application and our drawing uh a fiberglass door
with a solid solid wood core. Um the existing back doors are um are aluminum clad wood core. right now. Um we with with the interest of um maintenance and durability um and something that
feels like a wood door. Um we're we're very comfortable proposing the the fiberglass clad uh wood door with with light, single light um for the rear entrance. Those doors would be um they're currently painted black. We would we would um we proposed painting
them black as well to distinguish them. Um and and we did not consider painting them the same as the front door, let it be different in the rear. The window wells, you can see the the basement window in the center top photo there. Um the window wells are corrugated um
metal. Uh they are all in good shape. They're attached to the to the stone masonry. Um, you know, as these windows, um, the basement windows will be replaced with a they're they're existing in swing awnings, we're replacing them with an inswing awning Marvin window,
um, with the same two light pattern. Um, if the window well needs to be reattached, which we we didn't see any evidence of that, um, we'll address that at the time of the basement window installation. Next slide.
that that that is uh it's a summary of what we're we're proposing here. >> All right. Thank you. All right. I want to open it up for questions. Any any questions about these replacement windows? Um the
age of the windows, sizes, anything. Um I I have a question. >> Yeah. >> About the windows. Um, so I wasn't exactly clear on what the windows um are
going to look like. So are they going to look like uh the examples on page 21? Is that is that what we're are those the windows? >> That that is that's the uh a literature. We're not proposing that light pattern, but those are the those are the windows,
I believe. >> But that's that's what it's going to look like. Not the color, but >> not the color and not the light pattern. Like it's going to be a six over six. >> Six over six. >> Yes. Yeah. >> That's what I That was my question. Okay. >> That that that is not that. >> So they're going to look basically the way that they look right now.
>> Correct. >> Gotcha. Thank you. >> All right. Thanks. Um, as far as size discrepancies, did you have anything uh like over an inch or any kind of
difference in size that you had to accommodate or everything is >> the the um the analysis that is included in the >> set of comments is accurate. We we verified that and that is what we depicted and we we double checked that
today. So that those are the >> So that looks very very close. Um all right. Um any other comments about color or um
anything like that? No. Yes. Elizabeth, I think because the applicant had stated that the uh replacement they believe was like mid 20th century. I think that it's not anything of historic significance. So I think the differential that you see
which is you know the standard we look at that um I feel that um the insert definitely outweighs what that change in dimensions is. I mean if it had been not as recent maybe it would have been
considered to be worthy of saving but I think that you know with the description that they had represented that that the inserts are a very good choice. Yeah, I agree. I mean, in terms of insulation, it's going to be a huge
improvement. Absolutely. Um, would anyone like to comment from the audience? Any public comment? No. All right. Just checking. All right. C, can I ask one more question? Yeah.
So, I think I saw somewhere in the application that the um existing windows will actually be reused maybe or will be kept in storage. Is that right? or am I mistaken >> the um the window the sash the weight boxes and the sash weights will remain
in and which is a reversible condition um we I don't know that we discussed retaining the sashes but that >> yeah the the the sashes in the front are not the original so they're going to be removed all of the original material the
weights the frame the the whole box will remain on the building itself. >> No, I understand. Uh >> the sashes were not keeping. You're not keeping that. You're just getting rid of them. >> We're not going to store the sashes now. >> Okay. >> Well, and do they have lead paint?
>> They do. >> Oh, okay. Yeah. Well, then there's the problem. Okay. All right. Is there um any other questions? I just had a quick small question. The um you said the
front doors were black or blue. >> The existing doors are painted black. We're proposing painting them that that color. >> Got it. Okay. >> The rear replacement doors are black. >> Got it. >> Okay. Anything
else? If not, would someone like to make a motion? Yes. >> All right. Go ahead, Charlotte. >> No. Well, I first just want to compliment the university and the architects on the presentation and the
thoroughess and the dedication to um historic adherence. I mean, it's really quite beautiful. So, um >> do >> Thank you. >> Do you want me to go? Yeah, just say uh
I make a motion. >> So I make a motion to um to approve this uh this entire um proposal as as is and with all its fine details. >> Okay. >> Thank you.
>> And is there a second? >> I'll second. >> Okay. Thanks, Emily. All right, >> Miss Satderfield. Yes. I just want to say this is very well done and uh also um Reverend
Edwards would really appreciate it. I'll tell you who that is. Yes, >> Mr. Shatskin. >> Yes, >> Mr. Shore. I'm trying to figure out the windows, what the replacement windows were
previously and what the original windows were, but I can't seem to answer that myself. So, I will say yes. >> Miss Freriedman, >> yes. >> Miss Crawl, >> yes. >> Miss Maria,
>> chairperson Capazolei. >> Yes. >> Thank you very much. Thank you so much for coming in and thanks for Sorry about the delay >> and >> appreciate it. >> Hope you have a wonderful evening. Thank you. All right.
So, we are on to public comment. And I I said that this would be the time where if anyone wanted to say something about Elrich, we could do that. >> May I?
>> Yes. >> Do I need to be sworn in to make a public comment? Good. >> No. >> Good. Thank you. Um, I did want to come by. I didn't want to spend three hours doing it, but I did want to offer my sincere condolences as a former liaison.
I was a council member for those of you that don't know, and I was the liazison to the historic preservation commission for five years. Long, long time. Anyway, um you know, Elrich was really such a valued member of the commission and
really appreciated his expertise and his experience in the community. And I just feel like it's a real loss for us all, for the greater community and for the commission. And I just wanted to express my condolences to you, his colleagues
and friends. So, thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. I don't know if anyone else wants to say anything. Yes, Leighton. Thank Thank you, Julie. Thank you,
Elizabeth. I just want to read a statement that was quoted by Dr. Martin Luther King because this statement reminds me of everything I know, witnessed, and felt
about our good friend Elrich. If I can help somebody as I pass along, if I can cheer somebody with a word or song, if I can show somebody he's traveling wrong, then my living will not be in vain. If I can do my duty as a
Christian ought, if I can bring salvation to a world once wrought, if I can spread the message as the master taught, then my living will not be in vain. Rest in peace, Eldrich. May the
good Lord keep you. Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Yeah, Roger. >> When I was reading the uh minutes that were on the schedule for tonight, uh I came across two things. This this is a
discussion of the toll house on Mercer Street uh next to the Quaker meeting house. And just two things that just struck me as uh so typical of Elrich. And this the first note is Mr. Endersby
asked about the corner and how it connects with the principal house. Max Hayden the architect proposed meeting with Mr. Endersby to work on corner boards and siding. And that was so typical of Elrich's generosity and and
giving of his time and his attention to detail and knowing how things work architecturally so that he could you be a resource for us all. And the other thing a little later on Ian summarized Elrich's comments as Mr. And Endersby
provided historical anecdotes about residents in the area and sometimes it seemed like it was way out there. Other times it was uh entirely germanine but it was it was Elic and it was wonderful because we
didn't have that historical institutional memory that he collected during his 12 years of doing the recollector or talking to everybody from the last century who is still alive in in Princeton. And finally, just a personal note, as an operator member of
the commission, to be very honest, I often waited to hear what Elrich had to say to figure out what my position was going to be because he clarified things. His depth of knowledge was such and didn't always meant I voted the same
way he did, but it clarified exactly where I was going to end up going. And that was not possible until I heard what he said. So I I prefer to think he's in the Dominican Republic somewhere uh wintering the cold that's to come.
>> Yeah, I know. I I know this has been a really hard meeting to get through without him. So, I don't know if anyone else wanted to say anything, but I echo Leightton's
words that he was the extremely kind. I think it's his kindness, with his subtleness, with his u enthusiasm for every single built
thing he ever came across. And it wasn't just with us adults. when I saw him interact with my son as a really tiny and problematic little boy running around doing stuff. We went up to the um tavern where his offices were one day
for an event and he had he had something in mind for what James would be doing that day and it was they had been doing some archaeology and they had a big big pile of dirt to sift through and James did that for hours with Elbert coming by to check on them and what did you find
and what do you think we might find? I mean that's just that enthusiasm that he wanted everybody to have about history and the built environment is going to be really missed. >> Yeah. >> I remember I was asked in 1990 to join
the historical society of Princeton and I used to go up to the third floor. That's when I started the history of African-Americans in Princeton because it wasn't done. Um, and I'd go up to the third floor on those creaky stairs at the Bainbridge House and he would be on
the third floor working on the recollector. And I started that's how I started my history talking to him. He did so many interviews with people in our community. Um and he sent the best Christmas cards
with his barns on the front of them. You remember those? Did you get them? And he was always willing to help. Um actually, because I do the history, I'm always looking for things to put in a museum. And one day he said, "I have three
doors." I said, "Doors for what?" He said, "They came from the Robson house on Green Street." So they're in my garage waiting for a museum to put them in. But I miss them so much. Oh god. It felt like there was
no worldac after plays with your grand Well, I know we'll keep you updated with um information on the memorial, which I heard will be at Howell Farm at a later
date. So, we'll let you know. Good to see you. Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Howell Farm because he and Alex put that barn up. Yeah. And I saw Glen Karen
which was a project of theirs is going to be 50 years. Okay. Um, do you want to say anything about Sesquitenial the or the um the stuff you wrote about? >> Oh, I can do this. I can do this since
>> very quickly. Um, in terms of some outreach efforts last week on Tuesday, we had the adaptive reuse tour of the Triumph Brewery. I thought it was very successful. Emily
came. Uh, freedom was also there. Uh, the Triumph people were happy with it and invited us back to do it again, which we we may do in the spring. We're still trying to expand that to some other facilities in in town like the
Graduate Hotel, but it u it was an interesting uh and rewarding hour. Um, it was co-sponsored by the Historical Society of Princeton. Last Friday, I met with the Mercer Hill
Historic District Association officers and I really was standing in front for the historical society. They do events, they do tours. I ended up kind of being an honest broker and putting them together. They want to they are looking
possibly toward offering tours of Mercer Hill with the historical society which is set up to do this stuff. Uh we we are not I'll keep a hand in as best we can. Um Carolyn Robertson of the historical
society and this brings us in has done some investigation. The the state historical commission which is a littleknown body in the department of state does a lot of research has some grants uh is putting
together a revolution revolutionary themed display for uh use around the state. I will s we didn't get a chance to send their brochure around. We we should send that around. Uh
essentially they they have I believe it's 12 panels that could be put in the hallway of the municipal building or monument hall or possibly the library depicting the lives of ordinary people during the revolution rather than
focusing on the famous generals and uh soldiers and Alexander Hamilton and people we know about. It's more of a look at what quoteunquote normal people were doing during the revolution. I think it's, you
know, thank Carolyn for digging this up. I think it's something we should look at and we'd have to bring it to the council to get approval, but some of the preliminary materials we've seen look look promising. So, we'll keep you apprised on that.
>> Thank you. I know we have just not too much more time till that happens. So, all right. Is anything else, Elizabeth? Um, so just a few things on the staff
reports. I do want to follow up on the semi-quintential anniversary historic state markers. Kip was able to put the two applications in. So, they're all done. We're going to wait to hear um you know who will get granted some of those.
Um, two other businesses. I was reached out by the new historic preservation specialist at the county and she uh wants to know if Princeton has any type of wish list on historic preservation projects that they
like um for them to look at. This is Mercer County. So, I told them I'd bring it up today and see if there's anything that we can tell. So Mercer County would promote historic sites in Princeton or what are they going to do? >> So uh they're wondering is there a
bridge maybe that's a county bridge that we feel um you know warrants work um >> oh like grant money. >> Uh well it's actually through the Mercer County Planning Department. So they're
looking to see if we have a wish list of work. any description of the requiring? >> She just reached out to me. She's new and I guess that maybe that's, you know, she's been asked to do that. And maybe it's because the Mercer Bridge, there
was a whole thing about that where supposedly there was a bridge they were taking historic bridge from somewhere else and they were supposed to put it in Princeton and they just built a temp we just built a temporarily a temporary one before they had disassembled it and brought it over. But in the meantime,
somehow they disassembled it and it never was installed. And I think that they found it over at the airport at the Mercer County airport. And so now they've been trying to get it. And I'm not sure what they're doing, but I think that that might have just kind of accelerated, hey, listen, what else
might Prince be interested or maybe other towns within Mercer County. So if anyone has any ideas, let me know so I can reach back out to her. Um the other thing is that um I um was told by
administrator that Ed's retiring at the end of this year. So >> Oh, Ed Shmere is retiring. >> Yeah. So um we believe that probably Lisa Maddox who's done who stepped in for him in the past who I think that she's done a good job. Um she'll
probably be taking over. >> All right. Well, thank you. Is there I think that's it. Is there a motion to adjourn? Okay, thanks David. Second, Roger. Okay, thanks everybody. Good night.