realization. Good evening everybody. It's a little after 5. I'm sorry. Let's um get started with today's meeting. And that starts with me fumbling through a printed announcement. Opening statement. This is a regularly
monthly special no monthly meeting of the Princeton Historic Preservation Commission being held in person on February 24th um at 5:00 p.m. in the main meeting room of the Princeton Municipal Building at
400 Witherspoon Street. Pursuant to section 13 of the open public meetings act, adequate notice of this time and place and agenda of this meeting has been noticed by transmitting a copy of the notice to the Princeton packet, town
topics, the times, the tranonian, and by filing a copy with the clerk of Princeton and has been posted to the municipal website. It's also posted of the official bulletin board here at the municipal complex, 400 Withersman Street.
Sarah, do you want to take role? >> Miss Satderfield's absent. Mr. Shatkin >> here. >> Miss Freda is absent. Miss Capazolei >> here. >> Miss Freriedman >> here. >> Miss Croll is absent. Miss Kosvnikova
>> here. >> And Chair Sher >> here. We have gone to trying to reduce the amount of paper we print. So, we all have to share things up here. So, I have to get a copy of the agenda. Uh, the next thing is um some announcements.
Sarah, do you have anything for us? >> I do have a card we received from Ed Shmeir regarding our present to him during our um the last HBC meeting. Yeah.
>> All right. Administrative matters are submitted Oh, sorry. >> Nobody wants to hear what I have to say. >> So, um, Julie, want to work with me on this? >> Sure.
>> Yeah. Do you want this? >> Yeah. Take that. So, I guess the way to do this is to um name each committee and who who's there currently, who was formerly there, and then if we need to have some new members
or if someone wants to be off of that committee um and wants to go to a different committee, no free rides here. Um we can talk about that. And um so the first one on this list is something that goes whack a long long long time called the King's Highway. And for those of you
who remember, we kind of made national news in trying to figure out what to do with the traffic and condition of our historic resource, the Kings Highway. And uh under Christine Luwendowski working with the neighboring towns and counties, we had the Kings Highway from
Franklin Township all the way down to um Lawrenceville where it hits the uh the interstate named to the National Register of Historic Places as a as a resource. And it uh we had a consultant who wrote that up. uh it got passed and
what we've been working on now is to see what other um actions or or protections or uh concerns that we can address through a subcommittee of this historic preservation commission. Uh we had
looked for a while at things called um conservation or uh scenic byway um classification for the road and um quite honestly we have not done much on that but it's not a committee that should go away right now.
The two remaining members who are on this committee are myself and Julie. It would be great to have a third person. The former person was Tom Pile. So this goes back a little bit. Is there anybody who would like on the commission who would like to work on that committee? >> Um what is the scope of this committee
and do we still need it? Well, that's a good question and maybe the way we we should do it is to take a look at what the scope and what the possibilities are for a committee to be uh in place and working on this topic and figure out if there is more work to
be done, a reason to be in business or not and then report back saying whether we should continue this committee and at that time figure out if we should have some other members on it. So, um, I think maybe what I'm hearing myself say and hearing what from Roger's question is maybe Julie and I should look into
that and report back at the next committee meeting on what our recommendations are for that subcommittee. Does that work for everybody? Okay. The next one is called um Gulich
farmhouse and that's a matter that is actually between the um municipality of Princeton and the property owners there for an arrangement that was made many many years ago to try to find funding to help that very historic farmstead um get
some restoration and put it in good shape for um stabilization. Um the committee members there are um well the remaining committee members are Julie Capazolei and Shirley Satderfield.
Um we were just talking a moment ago kind of the same kind of question that Roger was bringing up. What is the standing of that committee? What is it what is its future? What should we be doing with it? And I think there is followup to be done with um the appropriate representatives on the at
the municipality to find out where that stands because there was some legal agreement arrangement on that and I think that we have not um kept up probably with the current status of that. So um Julie, does that sound appropriate to you?
>> Uh yes, that sounds good. >> Okay, good. And Julie, regarding that one, I do have looks like two binders of like what the preservation plan was in my office if you want to come and and reference those and we could kind of work on that together as well. >> All right. Thank you.
>> You're welcome. >> All right. Here, this one is um I think one of our hot topics because I just think it's so important. Sustainability and preservation. And somehow or another that was um Julie Capazolei and David Shore. Also um I will say that um
getting ready for this this meeting I did reach out to um Ann Seuss at the uh Princeton sustainability what are the um Princeton >> is it >> sustainable Princeton. There it is. and I had a very nice conversation with her
and we agreed that there's probably some areas of good overlap and some things we probably would both like to see happen um between the the two different um commissions and that uh again I think we should probably um it would be great to
have a third person working on it but also get a meeting uh with not only Sustainable Princeton but any of the other kind of environmental conservation groups in town and just kind of see where we can go with this concept. Who would like to join that
comm that subcommittee? >> Oh, very good, Charlotte. And if anyone else wants to, I'm happy to step off, although this is a very um interesting topic to me. Anybody else want to work on this? Is Roger
Oh boy. Um, the next one is called completion of the 2003 2003, not 2023, not even 2013, but 2003 architectural survey. And that had three members, Shirley, Roger, and and and
David, me. Um the direction on that is is is is a good question. Um I have to admit that I don't really know where we are on that. Roger. Uh do you have anything to add on on that? >> No, I mean the that's the last complete
architectural survey 23 years ago. It's the kind of thing that, you know, I would hope we could be able to get a grant at some point to update because it's a fairly large project. Uh we got a grant the last time.
Some people did not think it was satisfactorily executed. Uh so that makes it even more important that we make sure that this survey is up to date and and accurate
and that you know links so directly back to the CLG status the certified local government status that both entities had and both entities managed to lose in the process of the merger. Um the last thing I heard officially on it was right at
the end of the year and maybe actually last week talk or last month talking with Lisa a little bit is that it's being looked at. It's being worked on in the background >> the the ordinances. So yes, absolutely. >> So the ordinance that gets us the CLG which will get us the potential to have
funding to keep up with the architectural survey or or however we're going to address that next. So, I guess we're um we're hopeful we have a little bit of potential. We have a little bit of forward motion on that. So, um stay tuned.
Design guidelines. Here's one I can report very very positive forward motion as we meet um once a month with the consultant that was uh selected and hired about August of last year, I think. and wonderful progress on that
and that it has a couple of really good um uh attributes to it is that it's um uh the the the meetings that are held with the person who's putting this together for us who does this on a a
national scale very talented well recognized person meets with a committee of people here at the um well we do it virtually but people here within the the municipal government. Um, so in addition to the committee members, we
have our liaison. We have Leighton who's in on those meetings. We have Justin who's in on the meetings, Justin Wesco. And then um the mayor is often there. Um the administrator is there and a couple other people I don't always don't always
um see on their faces on the thing, but it's a it's a group of people all giving Oh, and I'm sorry, David Cohen. um another council member giving a lot of feedback, doing a lot of work. Um people are reading the uh stuff that's drafted very carefully. Uh giving great feedback
and bottom line is a document that I think is going to benefit even more than the people who are uh owners of historic buildings in historic districts in town. But there's just a lot of common sense building maintenance that's being included in there. um just some great approaches and how to think about things
and also a little bit about how um design guidelines interface back to um the uh municipal ordinances uh and and what the process is for doing different things physically with buildings uh in town again specifically for the historic
districts but the lesson that's in there I think is very um good for illustrating just the process overall. So, um, with that, it's Julie, myself, and Freda. And I think we're we're we're good with that commission right now.
Princeton Battlefield State Park expansion um, interpretive and Princeton signage. So, there's a lot going on there. And of course, they're trying to get it all to come together for the 250th anniversary.
And some of us have had different roles interfacing with the park and the people who are doing uh work for the park and the fundraising that's going on, the input that's coming from the the people at the National Park Service level, the
people that are uh influenced from um the um American Battlefield um Society and just locally what's going on. Uh I think that there's a kind of a a meeting that happens regularly at the staff level uh
with um first with Elizabeth Kim and now with Sarah just gets updates all the time on what they're doing. Um so that committee right now is Roger Shatskin and myself. We could have a third person if anybody's interested and it's a very exciting time. >> I'm interested.
>> All right, Julie. Thank you. >> I can we strike expansion from the title? >> Yeah. I don't know what that expansion is about. They're not buying any new land. >> That was that was the title prior to them getting that additional
>> they they did acquire more land or more land was acquired for them and given to the battlefield through the American Battlefield Trust. What's going on there that's pretty exciting is just um you see some more signage going up all the time which is great kind of interpretive at this site
looking this direction is how the troops moved that day. They're also um have done a lot of work with um understanding the historic landscape and in certain cases they're clearing things away so you can find they believe they've found the um the sawmill um trail and things
that were just very key to that battle that had been lost for a long long time. So uh stay tuned and and that's pretty cool. The next one, ordinance revisions and demolitions. um for a while we had um uh
we had Christine Luwendowski as a volunteer on on that. Roger Shatskin and David Shore. I would love to have um anybody else or if anyone wants to take that place and let me do something else that's good. Any volunteers?
Maria, thank you. Anybody else interested? Okay. Um, what I'll try to do, and I'm I'm sure we've tried to do this every year, is to try and at least find out what
each of these committees with maybe new members is doing and kind of get some scheduled updates. Master plan update. Um, I think probably should just call that master plan now. Uh we all contributed quite a lot to the
master plan um update process a couple years ago, but the job is as um historic preservation commission. What are we witnessing in the community? Uh where are our concerns for the historic resources uh etc. and and make sure that those um concerns and and discoveries
are are channeled back up upuh up the chain to make sure that um that anything that's um precious or endangered uh it gets the recognition it should and then how that um will fit into what the ordinance calls for right now. That's um
>> that's Roger Shatzkin and David Shore. Um we'd love to have somebody else. >> Very good. Thank you. All right, we're getting there. Page two, Valley Road. Um, at one time this was
specifically about the building across the street, the Valley Road School Building, but I think in the work that was being done um by various different entities to try and uh get reinvestment to make improvements along Witherspoon Street as a whole, which um a lot of
input was received from historic preservation commission. Uh there was a group of us that met on that quite regularly and that member who's not here today, Freda Howard, did an incredible lot of work on that just because of her professional skills, ability to read drawings uh and specifications and could
catch things that um might have been missed. A lot of input, a lot of um uh contribution back to what the engineering department was doing. And I think we we got on the physical work that was done up at the other end um a great result. But at the other at the
same time, there's been talk about how does the Valley Road School and this end of that corridor factor into it and can we um please try to be involved in that process more as it moves forward. And that's um Freda Howard and Shirley
Satderfield. Is there anybody else that would like to work with that on that subcommittee? Okay, the next one on our list is the CLG grant committee and we have that on hold until we know more about um the CLG
status. So, I think we'll just leave it that way. Website public education committee. I think this is really vital. I think it's um uh it's great that um Roger has taken some leadership in that and is um uh
very um um uh eloquently uh maintained that we need to get more and more word out about preservation, our successes, what's going on, what our concerns are, uh where there's educational opportunities
uh communitywide. And I I'm sure that we probably would like to have at least another person working with them on that. Do we have a volunteer? >> Very good. I didn't know this was one of our committees. PTS redevelopment, Princeton Theological Seminary redevelopment. We
have a subcommittee on that. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Um well, I should know more. I'm one of the committee members. Uh but we're missing Elrich, so we need to Roger and I need somebody else or um anybody wants to help us with that one.
>> Is that once again, is that moot? I mean, >> I I I kind of wonder that. I was just thinking before we really got into it, we should kind of figure out where we are on that. Um, >> it's not a historic district. >> Yeah. Our our Yeah, there's there's history there and and where we are now
is where we are now, I'm afraid, as far as what the commission can do. >> It's an empty lot at the moment. >> Yeah. Why don't we just put that on hold that we >> hold or delete? I'm not sure. What's the commission's feeling?
Guess hold. >> Hold. Okay. >> All right. The next one is education and promoting historic preservation, which I guess I was thinking was part of what was under the website and public education committee. Should we maybe
just put them together? Again, that's um Roger and and Charlotte. And I'd be happy to sit in and talk about that kind of stuff and figure out some more direction, but I I feel that that's they're very well related. >> Yeah, that's one I agree.
>> All right, the last one here is the house and cottage and I have a note here. Oh, 2018 meeting. Well, we had a had a committee on it at one time, but actually in trying to do some research on it, um no lists were
were found. Julie, do you want to talk about that? >> Sure. I think recently um the Herrentown Woods group started a fundraiser to restore the um Veilent Cottage. So, I think it's still active.
>> Okay. So then somebody we should reach out to them and just see where they are and see how we could join or support or >> Yeah, I can help with that. >> Okay, great. >> Julie, I did meet with um I'm blanking on his name right now. Steve Hilner. >> Yes. Um to discuss
>> kind of the the house and the cottage and the status and we went over some things so we can also discuss what I have there. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. I thank the commission's um help with getting through this part of the um the work that we have for this evening.
Um I think we've got good notes here. We'll send out a followup to everybody and um I will try to reach out to all the committees and and and talk to them. I'll do a certain amount of talking to myself, it looks like. Um um and then I think we're we're done
with that for tonight unless anybody has any more input on it. Okay, we have some minutes to um approve. As usual, if you happen to have sent any comments or changes back in, um please
just let us know that you did that. And if anybody has any other comments, we'll start with the um November 17th, 2005 minutes. Does anybody have any um want to make a comment that they've already submitted changes or corrections or um
see something new? >> Okay, then how about a I'm sorry. >> I'll make a motion to approve the minutes. >> All right. >> November 17th. >> A second. I'll second. Just an FYI, I gave Ian
some line edits. >> Very good. Thank you. >> Typos, proof read kind proof reading kind of stuff. >> All right, then moving on to the Oh, >> roll call. >> Yeah. All in favor? >> I >> uh roll call. >> Oh, roll call. >> Roll call. All right, then.
>> Mr. Shatan, >> yes. >> Miss Capazolei, >> yes. >> Miss Freriedman, >> yes. Miss Kosvnikova, >> I wasn't here that day. >> Okay. And Chair Sher,
>> yes. The um December 15th, 2025 minutes. Again, if you made some comments or suggested or submitted anything already, please let us know. >> Those are super short. I'll move to approve. >> All right. Roll call vote, please.
Having a Mr. Shaskkin. >> Yes. >> Miss Capazolei. >> Yes. >> Uh, Miss Freriedman. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Miss Kosvnikova. >> Yes. >> And Chair Sher.
>> Yep. >> All right. And into the new year, January 27th, 2026. >> I have one suggestion. I noticed the document had 2025 instead of 2026 on it.
So, just got to shift the year. >> Any other input or previous changes? If not, a motion to approve. >> I'll move to approve those. >> Thank you, Julie. Second. Thank you, Maria.
Is there a roll call? >> Mr. Shatskin? >> Yes. >> Miss Capazolei? >> Yes. >> Miss Freriedman? >> Was I? >> You weren't. No, you weren't here. >> Uh, Miss Kosnikova. >> Yes.
>> And Sher Sher. >> Yes. >> Motion passes. All right. Now moving on to as we always do the um the resolutions from business that we conducted last month. And the first one was um the application for 66 Lee
Avenue. And that was modifications to a previously approved garage door and window um uh specifications uh under a previous application. Um and that we uh came to a resolution on that.
It was distributed to members. Um, if there's any discussion or if there's a motion to approve, please let me know. >> I'll I'll move to approve it. >> Okay, Julie. Thank you. Second. >> Second,
>> Charlotte. Thank you. >> And this we do by roll call also. >> Roll call, Mr. Shatskin. Yes, >> Miss Capazolei. >> Yes, >> Miss Friedman. >> Yes, >> Miss Kosvnikova. >> Yes, >> Chair Sher.
>> Yes. >> Very nice and tidy. Our next resolution was um an application for 150 Nassau Street. It had to do with um a storefront being repainted.
Um and we had you know a discussion about it and some notes and there was a motion made. So the resolution was distributed. Um is there any discussion or um if there's someone who wants to make a motion to approve it? >> I'll move to approve it.
>> Thank you Julie. >> Second. >> Thank you. Roger. >> Mr. Shatskin. >> Yes. >> Miss Capazolei. >> Yes. >> Miss Freriedman. >> Yes. Miss Kosvnikova. >> Yes. >> Chair Sher.
>> Yes. >> Our um third um resolution that we did last month had to do with um 110 Nassau Street. Modification of a storefront window and door. This was to allow them to have um very interesting pivoting or
um yeah, pivoting is the right word. windows that would open vertically and let the the street side and the inside um flow together better. Um and um if there's no more discussion on it by by
anybody about the resolution that was prepared, we're ready for a vote to approve it. The resolution >> I move to approve it. >> Thank you. Mr. Chhatskin, >> yes. >> Miss Capazolei, >> yes.
>> Miss Freriedman, >> yes. >> Miss Kvnikova, >> yes. >> Chair Sher, >> yes. >> All right, we're going to move into the application part of the meeting. Um, the fun part, the part everybody comes for.
Um our first one tonight is from the uh besties um James and S Sandy um at 8 evil in place and this is a project we've looked at previously I guess as a concept review and then we've had some
updates and now we're here for the um formal application and u we'll um we'll let the applicant you want to do the their staff report first or the applicants report
first. I've forgotten your preference. >> Applicant. >> Applicant. >> All right, Lisa, if you'll um >> Yeah. Um Mr. Kennedy, uh do you have witnesses for tonight's >> I I will. Um
>> Okay. So, we'll >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And um so to my right, your left, we've got our architect and we have the homeowners here. I'll say one and a half really because we won't have much testimony from this side. Just an introduction, but >> Okay. So, we can swear everyone at the same time. If you could raise your right
hands, whoever is going to be testifying. Uh, do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. Um, thank you. Kind of a point of order. Um, as I slowly introduce myself again, uh,
Ryan Kennedy from the law firm of Stevens and Lee, uh, here on, uh, for this project on Evelyn in place. Um, and I, in looking back at the concept, I did remind myself that, Mr. Chairman, you said it correctly. I know that was a point of discussion last time. Um, and much appreciated. Uh,
if I don't know if there's another, um, button or um thing to get this screen to turn on. We do have some ex Oh, there we go. I just have to to ask for it. Um, >> will we get these on our monitors or >> Yep, here they are. >> Yep.
>> Only needs to be said, I guess, and then should have used it for the lotto numbers instead, I suppose. Um, again, Ryan Kennedy from Stevens and Lee. Um, I'm here with Jim and Sandy, uh, the the property owners here. Uh, many of you recall in March of 2025, we were here for a concept review. First, let me
thank you for your time and comments there. Um the goal with these reviews um and why we're so appreciative that you do them is to get initial feedback while the project comes together. We hope um the two uh predominant things we heard then was to to make sure um if there's a
visibility from the street that we've kind of um understand that fully and we did a lot of work including a a unique balloon test to see you know what you might see from the street. Um and second there was a lot of discussion about a carport. Um this is a very interesting
property where it there are two single family halves of um a historic home. Uh Sandy and Jim own the left half that we'll see which is technically um a subdivided fee simple single family home. And to the left you'll see uh um
on on the screen a garage and behind that they plan to build a accessory dwelling um unit. The goal here was to have this be seen um really not at all from the street. Um and if you recall those who were there, there was some discussion about a car port or right now
there's a two-car garage. They have a um historic car. We were looking for a place to put it and at the end of the day we struggled with that quite a bit and the the the answer was um to really remove it from the project. Um something we couldn't really quite figure out to
how to get our our um our heads around. Um, so as we start, I'm just going to ask Jim and Sandy to reintroduce themselves and we'll talk a very briefly about why we're here, what their use for this project, um, will be. So Jim,
>> um, good evening everyone and thank you very much for your time in reviewing this project. We greatly appreciate it. I'm Jim Besty and along with my wife Sandy were the homeowners and u we had the the opportunity to present our concept review last March and uh we took
your feedback um legitimately and and and was was very helpful and and made some of the adjustments as uh Ryan just set forth. This this project is is very uh how should I say important to both of
us because uh I have an elderly mother who is wa waiting uh to move from a multilevel townhouse in eastern Long Island which right now is quite challenging for her. You know she has to go up and down the stairs. Um her mobility is severely impaired. So we
were looking for one level uh arrangement that would also provide the opportunity uh for for a uh my sister who lives in the UK to come visit her there as well and and and and also other other family members and a caregiver
from time to time. So we we we tried to do what we could to uh uh put this project together uh to maintain the uh historical integrity of uh evil in place uh and and and uh as I said we've made
some adjustments and uh hopefully uh they will meet with your approval. >> Um thanks Jim. Um if you keep the microphone I just ask you a few questions before we switch to um um our architect but they'll be easy ones I promise. Um here we've got your uh this
is the historic district where your um property is u located. Is that right? >> Yes. >> All right. Um then here's an overhead um neighborhood view. Um we always kind of I always joke about these oblique photos. Um often they incorrectly show
lot lines going through the middle of houses. here. It really is the case that um it does uh their half in blue uh is their portion of of the uh original um home here and then the other half actually is a two family interestingly.
Um so their half is a one family that will with your approval have an ADU uh and the other half is a is a two family. Um, a little bit of background, Jim. Um, I think you you gathered this, but this was originally um, uh, women's college uh, named after Evelyn. Is that correct?
>> Yes. I mean, I think it was the coordinate uh, women's college to Princeton University, and it was in existence for several decades, but I think it ran into some financial trouble. I'm disappointed that Princeton University didn't bail them out, but ultimately Princeton University did wind
up having women come come to the university. But this this school then uh be became a a a personal residence. And I I at the time that we bought the home, we I remember I happened to be a lawyer and I went through the title report and I saw
everything that was done o over the course of time and and uh on on Evelyn Place there there quite a few professors that live there including uh a professor right next to us at seven Elyn Place now. and and we did wind up uh
purchasing um from the estate of a a renowned uh uh Princeton University uh history professor and the former mayor of of Princeton. So let let us not you know forget that. So I I feel like um there's a lot of history here and and uh
we we want to try to maintain it. Um so um again to my right uh your left as our I'll switch mics here and hand it to him. >> Legendary. >> Thank you Ryan. >> Uh Dan, if you could just briefly introduce yourself. I know you've been
before this board before but um very short version of your credentials perhaps and we'll have you accept it as a >> Yes. Yes. I've testified before this board two other times. Uh one with respect to in addition to the house at 250 Mercer Street. You might remember
that. that was a couple years back and then again at the concept review. Uh I've been a licensed architect in the state of New Jersey since 1980 and I also serve on the historic architectural review board for Yardley
Burrow. >> Thank you. um if it's acceptable, I'd like to have him offered as an expert um this evening. And uh thank you. Um and if we could um just at this next slide here, this is a uh a view from that
culde-sac at the end of Eivelyn looking at the property that we're we're talking about. Is that right? >> Yes, that's correct. And that blue arrow kind of focuses in a little bit on the part that we're talking about, you know, behind the garage area.
>> That's correct. >> Um, this next slide shows um, I guess a bit of the distances we're talking about. So that garage is about 100 ft from the street. >> That's correct. >> And, uh, we'll be talking about the spot kind of between the garage and the and
the main home and then behind it. >> Yes. So for those of you who remember 20 uh March 2025 uh this is the uh concept plan that we showed then um a lot of similarities but the couple things we
want to you know focus on a bit um you know an accessory dwelling unit behind the existing garage um a connecting um breezeway um between the existing garage and the main home and a and a carport
that got a lot of uh discussion Um so um Dan, if you could take us through the revised program here as we've shown on this slide. >> Yes. Uh um in response to the re the uh comments we got at that at that meeting,
we um eliminated the carport. That was a topic of some discussion at that meeting. And the other the other issue that came up was the height of the ADU. I guess there was some concern that it might when viewed from Elyn Place
project above the roof line of the existing garage. So we re we reduced the height of the unit by I believe it was 2 foot 3 in uh so that in effect it doesn't when
viewed from evil in place it doesn't project above the ridge line of the existing garage. And um that green arrow and the green dotted that's the meant to show the concept ridge line. >> That's correct. That's the what we
presented in March. And this drawing represents the revised uh scheme. >> Um so if you could start taking us through the the proposed kind of floor plans here. I think you've got them laid out really on one sheet, but you know, talk about what what will be there uh
for Jim and Sandy and their their family and and a little bit into what materials you're >> Yes. adjacent to the existing garage, we're proposing uh two two parking spaces with a walkway that leads to the ADU. Um enter into a
small uh entrance area and then off to the left of that would be the kitchen. And beyond that, towards the back of the ADU, would be the living area. And to the right of that living area, is a small dining area that opens onto a
deck uh looking out off to the back. And then off to the right side of the ADU is a bedroom with two closets and a bathroom. Uh in the middle of the ADU is the stairs
uh running up to the small bedroom that's encased enclosed in the existing attic space of the ADU. Um and just to note this sheet kind of shows the full site plan I guess with the attic plan kind of superimposed in
>> yes off to the side. Right. Uh this view is is from the front. Now keep in mind here you're seeing the ADU projecting above the roof of the garage on the right. But in perspective that doesn't happen when you're viewing it
from the street. But um that small window in the gable end is uh into a a bathroom that serves the upper bedroom. And below that is the entrance way into the ADU.
>> And you talk a little bit on the right, that's the connecting breezeway. >> Yes, they on the right is the connecting breezeway that connects the existing garage to the existing house. >> So the twocar garage that is part of the existing house. This would allow the
>> Jim and Sandy as the users of the main house to um >> to get to their cars without >> without rain or snow, >> right? to keep them protected, a protected route between the house and the garage. >> Can I add something to that? Just >> just by by way of background, I I've
found the past year I've had two major operations for my back and and a hip replacement and and being able to go undercover there was was very important to me. So, that was part of the reason why we added that breezeway. Um so next here I think we've got that
um one of the the site studies we did. So can you talk the the board through what we're looking at here? What what this shows? >> Okay. What we have here is a sighteline study uh showing the sight lines from the culdesac and the end of Elyn Place
um towards the proposed ADU. Uh the lower part of that is a section. Uh you can see in that section the sight line how the ridge of the garage cuts off the ridge of the ADU beyond it. And
we actually tested this on site with a pole with a balloon on top and ran it up and took pictures. And there you can see Jim with the uh the red balloon in the middle. So in in the center that's um uh
kind of showing for literally what he was doing with the to see the top the left is where that would be if you could see it and we and on the right is is kind of really zoomed in so you can actually see perhaps where it might peak a little bit above part of the um uh
yeah but ultimately it appears lower than the um the ultimately than the uh the ridge of the garage of the perspective. The garage is actually the existing garage is actually built on the high point of the lot. Uh the driveway you see here slopes up to the garage and
then behind the garage it starts to slope down again. So that also contributes to hiding the ADU behind the garage. Um I guess this next exhibit kind of shows that I guess highlighted in in orange is where that breezeway would be
and then has several photo perspectives looking in that direction. um ultimately that that would be entirely hidden behind the existing house. Is that right? >> Yes, that's correct. >> Um again there the unfortunately the way that the elevations have to be drawn
there almost from this perspective that doesn't really ever exist on the side of the lot. We tried as best we could to to do photos from from the right of way where you know where people um would be would be looking and seeing. Um that's largely it. Um
we our our goal was to um take what we heard positive about the project and and work in the comments. Um one, you know, can it really be seen? And I I think we by reducing the height and um doing some more work to to show the perspective
that it really won't be uh seen uh from the street and ultimately the thing that could have been seen certainly was the carport and um removing that from the project. Um um so with that we're we're happy to answer any questions that uh
the the board may have. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Sarah, did you want to go ahead? >> Yes. I am going to kind of run through the more
important points of my report. Uh the applicants James and Satini Basiti have filed an application for historic preservation plan review to construct an ADU as well as a breezeway connecting the primary dwelling to the garage. The site is identified as block 34.01
lot 8 on the Princeton tax map. It is further identified as 8 evil in place and located in the R3B zone. The property is designated on Princeton's historic overlay district as type two, which as defined per T10B2 is subject to preservation plan review for any changes
visible from the public rightway. The proposed project consists of the construction of an ADU behind the existing garage, the construction of a breezeway connecting the rear of the existing dwelling with the garage, a slight reconfiguration of the asphalt parking area in front of the garage, and the removal and replacement of several
trees pre previously reviewed and approved by the municipal arborists. The property is located in the Jugtown historic district as shown on the municipal overlay zoning map of historic districts and buffers districts map on the northwest end of Eland Place. The Jugtown historic district is
characterized as a small residential and commercial crossroads community that evolved from the intersection of Nassau and Harrison Streets with a period of significance from 1700 to 1918. Buildings within the district reflect the popular style styles from this period ranging from Georgian, federal,
Greek and colonial revivals as well as shingle. Eight evil in place is a shingle style dwelling constructed in 1881. Originally a single family dwelling, the building operated as a woman's college for 10 years in the late 19th century before it being subdivided
into two houses in 1902. Indicative of its shingle style, the dwelling at evil in place retains its asymmetrical form and varied roof types. It is oriented towards the end of evil in place and accessed via paired driveways branching off from the road on
either side of the subdivide dwelling, contributing to its monumental feeling as a large single family estate at the end of a private drive. The proposed changes are largely set back from evil in place and appear to be minimally visible from public rightway. The breezeway will be attached to the rear of the dwelling, connecting it to the
garage, which itself is set back and angled, limiting this alteration's visibility. The two-car garage was constructed after receiving approval from the HPC in 2016 under application number 10HP 2016. The design of the proposed ADU borrows from the previously
approved garage, ensuring that the new building harmonizes with the existing buildings on the property. While the proposed ADU is taller than the garage, it is set further back on the property, lending to minimal visib minimal visibility from Evelyn Evil in place. In
addition, 8 Evil in Place is heavily landscaped as is the rest of the street, contributing to its overall setting. The majority of trees proposed for removal are primarily in the rear of the dwelling with only two trees being removed in the driveway. The proposed changes to the driveway itself appear to largely retain the driveway's entryway
pattern from evil in place with the addition of a parking space west of the garage. I do have samples provided by the applicant. And there's also a paper on the cart which I'm not going to pass around, but if anyone needs to see it, it's here.
And then to my comments and recommendations. Staff finds that the proposed project generally retains the building's historic use, materials, features, spaces, and spatial relationships, as well as the overall historic character of the property that qualifies it as a contributing resource to the Jugtown Historic District. Staff
recommends that the commission considering the following while conducting the review. Whether the proposed project meets the Secretary of the Interior standards for the treatment of historic properties, namely the rehabilitation treatment measure. Whether the proposed project preserves or enhances the historic or architectural value and character of the
structure. Whether the proposed project is appropriate to and compatible with the existing structures of the historic preservation district. Whether proposed project would adversely affect the exterior architectural features and setting of the structure as well as it historical and architectural character.
Whether the height of proposed ADU is visually compatible with the surrounding structures in the district. Whether the width of the ADU to the height of the front elevation is visibly compatible with the structures in its immediate setting. Whether the relationship of the ADU to the open space between it and adjoining structures is visually
compatible with its immediate setting. Whether the relationship of materials, texture, and color of the facade and roof of the ADU is visually compatible. Whether the roof shape of the ADU is visually compatible. Whether the size and masting of the ADU is visually compatible. Whether the ADU is visually
comparable compatible in its directional character with the structures in its immediate setting. Whether proposed parking area is appropriately screened from the view from the public right ofway and the structures within the district. Whether the proposed replacement trees are in keeping with the general appearance of Evil in Place
and the larger historic Jugtown district. >> Thank you. I'm going to I'm going to ask commission members if they have any questions or comments that they would like to address to the applicant or if need be to our
staff for clarification. >> I'd like to say that I remember the concept review very well and I think you guys have done a great job listening to our comments lowering the roof height which is very complimentary to the garage. There's a lot of attention to
detail. I love the uh picture with the red balloon that really gets it across. So, I think you've done a wonderful job in listening and following through with our comments. I think it's great. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Julie.
>> Are there any other comments or questions, please? >> I have one question. >> Please, Maria. Um so for the breezeway is um are the colors going to be the same as the colors of the ADU sort of that uh gray um >> all the same colors.
>> The breezeway is uh going to be primarily green >> which is basically derived from the existing house. >> If you look at the portico on the front of the existing house, the details of the the breezeway respond to that.
>> Okay. Thank you. >> Roger. >> Got a quick question about the tree removal. Um, as Sarah's report indicates, most of the trees are in the back of the house. Um, but I went back and looked at the uh
concept review minutes and Elizabeth Kim, our former historic preservation officer, praised you for keeping a maple tree near the deck at the back of the ATU. ADU uh and noticed on the plans
that that maple tree is now gone. Um is there any chance that u that could be reconsidered? And secondly, there's another there about 19 trees 1920 trees that are going down. Most of it seems appropriate, but there's also a very
large oak at the back of the property that's on the list as well, like a 28 inch caliper in a storm uh drain, a new storm drain. Um,
new construction for a storm drain. Um, and it just seems a bit ironic that a tree that's sucking up a lot of water is going to be taken down for a storm drain. Um, I'll I'll perhaps let some others speak about the oak. Um,
unfortunately the the maple got a lot of attention and we had a um an outside arborist go in in addition to working with Taylor from Princeton. Um, and unfortunately it is just not in a safe condition. Um so um we're the applicants are disappointed about that one and and
put a lot of effort into trying to work around it, figure out what to um what to do. Um but ultimately what they learned in the process that it's not in a safe position condition even forgetting building, you know, in the area just to to be under unfortunately. Um as for the
oak, um I'll be honest, that one wasn't wasn't true. We can we can take a look at at that one. Um, uh, I think it's been approved and may have, um, Jim thinks it perhaps had died, but if you were looking at it and it looked healthy, we can we can see if that can be maneuvered around. You know, you you
make an excellent point about the um, uh, and obviously storm water is a necessity um, both by rule and um, for good reason. But to put it in in a you know, if if we can do work around that tree, we'll certainly take a look at that. Right >> now, this may may I'm sorry.
>> I'm sorry. I actually asked the arborist, "Do I have to take this oak tree down because it's huge and why would I want to spend $3,000 to take down a tree that isn't even near the building of the ADU in the back?" And he just said that it was not in good condition and that eventually we would
have to take it down. So, I think that's why uh it was targeted as a tree to take down. >> That was another question. You you have consulted with Taylor. Yeah, >> both Taylor and um Princeton Tree Care um as well as privately to to to try to figure out what what they could be
saved. Yeah, >> I want to take that as future as possible. >> Okay. Yeah. And also I I think it's outside of our purview as a historic commission, but I just wanted to raise it. >> Yeah. Unfortunately, we're we're aligned on that too. We we we put a lot of effort into trying to figure out what
how to um certainly with the with the maple Do you have anything else? >> No, just really just compliments like just thank you for making the changes we've suggested and just very respectful
of the, you know, real architectural treasure. >> At this time, I'd like to ask if there are any comments from the audience, anybody from the public that wants to comment on this project. Okay. All right. So, board members, um I agree
with all the comments that have come ahead of us, especially the um the kind of resounding response to our concept review. It seems like everything we we asked for and more. Um and then I appreciate that, um Sarah, who's only
one done this with us a couple of times so far, had our questions really well articulated and put here for us. And um largely, I feel that they all have been um satisfaced or addressed already. So,
I guess we'd be ready for to see if there's a a motion to approve. >> I'll move to approve this application as presented. >> Is there a second? >> I'll second. >> Thank you, Charlotte. >> Mr. Shatskin. Yes,
>> Miss Capazolei. >> Yes, >> Miss Freriedman. >> Yes, >> Miss Kosvnikova. >> Yes, >> Chair Sher. >> Yes, >> thank you so much. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> Be a good project. All right. Next up is um the
425 Basin Street project. You guys want to come to the table? Hello everybody. Okay. Um, as you saw before us, um, that you know that get a chance to present your application. Um, our staff will give their report and the board will
discuss it. Um, don't be intimidated by the fact that the people ahead of you, we see all the time and their consultants and all that stuff. This is a fine project. We understand it and we'd like to to hear about it. So, um, Lisa, if >> you could, will you both be testifying
about the project? If you could just raise your right hand and um do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> I do. >> Do you have um >> Okay. >> And um I'm Michael Evans from Public Service Solar, the solar installation
company. I'm the chief operating officer and master electrician for the company as well. >> Very good. Thank you. >> April, did you want to go with a statement or tell us about your project? Is there anything visual for us to look at other than what we've already seen or
>> I just my computer that is a photograph of the side of the roof that's called the north slope >> which is parts. Mhm. >> Hang on a second. We have some tech
assistance for you. >> I was going to say, yeah, just installing rooftop solar panels to and also to reduce my electric. >> Wow. >> This is also partly the result efforts
to increase. Several years ago, my natural gas burning oil died and I replaced it and
I have a lot more electricity in That is the plan is install the roof behind the house.
That's a one story plan to install solar panels there too. Um so it would be four roof slopes. Um not the small one you see in you know next to the front of the house there. Um
but the two high up and the two in back. Um so uh according to the report the the main issue is the vis the visibility from the right of way of this north slope. It's really more east than north
uh northeast. Um but that's what's what's referred to as the north slope in the report. And just to interrupt really quick, we're just going to mark that that photo as a one for the record. >> Thank you.
>> Okay. Um so, you know, I was surprised to be honest that um this was called visibility. I don't think it's I think I think it achieves minimal vis visual presence. I think that the phrase um the
criterion. Um, so that is what I'm proposing to you to review. Mainly >> her proposed solar system will probably cover about half of our current expenses with electric. >> Is your mic on? >> Her current her current solar system
proposed with including the panels on that northeast facing roof will cover about 50% of her electric costs. So if we remove those panels off that roof, it's going to be 13 modules. she's only going to be be able to benefit for about 25% of the cost of the the electric just
because of these modules. The modules they're themselves, they sit about 4 inches off the roof. They're black frame, black cellled, and they're encapsulated with a black galvanized aluminum that's we consider, we call it a critter guard. It's so critter, scrolls, rodents don't get underneath the solar panels and burrow during the
winter. So all of our solar systems have this enc casement around every single panel. It almost from the street view it does look like a giant skylight because it's very low profile to the roof but there is enough air flow for water, snow and everything to get underneath the solar system and we encapsulated so rodents don't get under there and
destroy the system. >> And I'll just add that um the roof is um modern asphalt shingle. I just replaced it two years ago. It's a new roof. Um, but it was asphalt shingle when I bought the house 21 years ago and it was old
then. So, it had been asphalt shingle for at least 20 more years before I bought the house. I don't know when the historic roof was removed, but a long time ago. >> Thank you. >> And I'm advised that uh the installation is removable.
>> Yes. >> Yes. >> If we were to remove the solar system, only the asphalt shingles would have to be replaced. It's not an architectural cedar shake shingle that's historic. It is an asphalt shingle roof. So if we ever were to remove the solar system, just saying 25 years to add more roof or
to replace the roof itself, we could take the system down, install the new shingles, and we could put the system back up. >> Is that um conclude what you wanted to say or? >> Uh I think so. So I think uh the main issues were whether it achieves minimal
visual presence, whether it's reversible, >> and was there another one that I haven't addressed yet? Sorry. >> No. Um Sarah, if you want to go over your notes, your report. >> I will I'll start with the description
of the project and the historic district in my report. Uh the proposed project consists of the installation of solar panels on the north and south slopes of the roof of the main building as well as the building's rear edition. The property is located in the Princeton Basin Historic District as shown in the
municipal overlay zoning map of historic districts and buffer districts map on the southwest end of Basin Street. The Princeton Basin Historic District is characterized by a small industrial community that developed in relation to the Delaware and Ryarden Canal from 1834
to 1932. The Cam Camden and Amboy Railroad once ran parallel to the canal and a large coal depot was established east of the Alexander Road bridge crossing. The two basins east and west of the bridge quickly began servicing businesses in the area. Stores,
residences, and a church developed in response to the construction and e economic prosperity surrounding the DNR canal. The extent remains of the former community consists of seven mid to late 19th century vernacular dwellings with some Greek revival influences. 425 Basin
Street is a three-story, three bay vernacular dwelling with some Greek Revival influences constructed circuit 1849. The front gable dwelling faces Basin Street as well as the Delaware and Raritan Canal to the east. The project as proposed will install
solar panels on each slope of the main roof as well as its rear edition. However, due to the height of the building and its orientation, only the panels on the north slope of the roof will be partially visible from the public rightway. The panels on the one-story rear edition will not be visible from the public rideway, but will be visible from the historic
district to neighboring properties. The current roof material appears to be asphalt shingle based on available aerials. Therefore, the installation of the solar panels would not damage existing historic fabric. In addition, while landscaping elements are typically considered ephemeral and not permanent solutions for screening, there is currently a mature tree at the southeast
corner of the front of the house, which would which will at least partially minimize the visibility of the panels on the north slope. Staff notes that the um now skipping ahead to my comments recommendations. Staff notes that per the HBC guidelines for the installation of solar panels in Princeton historic
districts, solar collectors should be positioned in limited or no visib visibility locations on the property as a resource in a type one district. The proposed solar panels are visible in three places per the review standards. However, only the north roof slope is
visible from the public rightway. Staff recommends the commission consider the following while conducting their review. Whether proposed project meets the secretary of the interior standards for the treatment of historic properties, namely the preservation and rehabilitation treatment measures. Whether proposed project preserves or
enhances the historic historical or architectural value and character of the structure. Whether proposed project is appropriate to and compatible with the existing structures of the historic preservation district. Whether the installation of the solar panels achieves a mis minimal visual presence that would not result in adverse effects
on the individual resource and the historic district. Whether the installation of the solar panels is reversible and whether the extent to which such alternative locations for solar devices has been considered, investigated and/or is feasible, including but not limited to the applicant's decision to install the
panels on the north slope of the roof. >> Thank you, Sarah. Commission members, questions, comments? Roger. >> Yeah, just to clarify, by the north slope, we're talking about the addition in the back. >> No. Uh, we're talking about the
part of the roof you kind of see in this picture. Uh, the high roof, not the one-story addition on the side, but the high roof uh with the chimney protruding from the top of it. That's the north slope in question.
>> Yeah, I looked at that. I mean, I looked on the online picture. Yes. Okay. All right. Got it. Yeah. No, I I was out at the site and I you know the the our standards call for
visibility determined as seen from the sidewalks and streets in the district when viewed approximately six feet above street grade. I think it's minimal myself. I mean I don't um may be visible from Alexander Road.
Um definitely ex visible from the 12story Lawrence apartment building, but that's not six feet above grade. Um so I I it meets the other criteria of being reversible as we were just
instructed. Um so I I don't see a real detriment to the historic character of the building. Thank you, Roger. I appreciate that. Um, observations from the field. Other comments?
>> Well, I was also in the field today. >> Very good. >> Like walked up and down the basin street just to take a look. Um, so I think it's going to be just maybe a touch visible, but not much. Um, if you kind of because the the road sort of goes down from Alexander, if you kind of like, you
know, if you return towards Alexander, it's going to be you can see it a bit more. So it's not completely invisible. Um, yeah. >> Thank you. >> A little bit. >> Others. >> I think despite being a teeny tiny bit
visible because of the height, it's pretty tall. I think it's so minimal. I don't feel like the the cons outweigh the pros or the pro the pros do outweigh
the cons. Okay. So >> there are for better or worse our solar guidelines kind of assume a type two district. It might be something that we might have to look at later on because it it is talking within the district and
from the six-foot point of view rather than the entire scope of the district the way we do in a type one. That's just an aside. >> Oh, that's good. The only question I had was in the um
in the description in the uh materials that were submitted talking about the solar panels on the on the roof slope we're talking about. >> Yes. >> Being pushed or located as far back as far back along that plane to the back of
the property. And I didn't know if um if Sarah, did you feel that we need to have actual measurements of locations where they're going to be? >> So based on the plan set, we do have the panels closest to the edge of the roof. So looking at it from the street, you will see the black with the
encapsulation. The international building code and the intern international residential code does require a three-foot pathway to get to the ridge from the eve from the lowest point from the gutter. If you would like, we can shift the array over and put that walkway the pathway on the
lefth hand street side so you see less of the array but then if you do look at it you will see the step up from the three-foot to the solar panels. So it's pick your poison. Do you want to see almost nothing or do you want to see a little step? So, it's ultimately your decision. It's currently permitted with
the setback on the opposite side because just to keep it nice and flush, but if you would like us to relocate it, I could talk to our engineers. We could stamp up another plan and I could submit it to you guys. Whatever you prefer. >> I think it's good to have it flush, you
know, even if you see a little bit rather than something popping up. >> I agree. And I and I didn't understand how that works. So, thank you. I I've been in the solar industry since 2009, so I've been to a couple of these and I know how you what the boards really look for. >> Yep.
Um the only um comment that I have that I just feel I want to make as a comment but not necessarily a problem for this project your property is that it's quite fortunate that the height of this building and the angles that we can see from
really work well work in your favor >> for for this installation and for our comfort level of approving it. Um, and that was something that was kind of apparent straight off and I I talked with Sarah about it last week that this is, you know, definitely in your favor.
It's um kind of important that we we're not setting that like this can go on any roof anywhere in town. It's it just happens to fit on this one quite well. And we do take each project individually on its own merits. But for anybody that's kind of like, well, they got to prove there, I just want to stress again
that the sight angles and the height of the building really worked in your favor. Um, I'm also a big believer that, you know, over time some of this technology will make it easier to have a smaller array, for example, and won't be as much of a challenge. Please hurry. Um,
>> uh, I I think that's it. I I I like the project and um I think that we've answered again all the questions that Sarah put before us. If there's any Oh, go ahead. I just wanted to say in response to um your comment about this fortunate uh you know location of the
roof and orientation and angle of the roof um I should have said this at the beginning but I admit I was rather intimidated by the professionalism of the previous supplements. Um I should have said to begin with you know I've been in this house for 21
years. I love old houses. That's why I am in it. Um, and I wouldn't I would have also have been too intimidated to even bring this before you if I had like some of my neighbors a roof that's
pitched towards the street. You know, I would have just thought, "No, they'll never want that." And also, it doesn't look historic, which is what I love about my house. >> U, but I also love sustainable energy. Um, I have little kids. I'm trying to keep them warm, but I'm also trying to
keep the planet a little bit green for them. Uh, so thank you for hearing us and thank you for your time and thank you Sarah for your report. Appreciate it. Thanks. Are there any comments from the public on this project?
>> Okay, commissioner, are we ready to um make a motion? >> I'll make a motion to move the project. >> Thank you. Seconded, Maria. Thank you. Roll call. >> Mr. Shatskin. >> Yes. >> Miss Capazolei.
>> Yes. >> Miss Freriedman. >> Yes. >> Miss Kosnikova. >> Yes. >> Chair Sher. >> Yes. >> Approved. >> Passed. Thank you all. >> Thank you so much everybody. We appreciate it. >> Yes. >> Yes.
>> Michael Emmens. Last name is spelled E M O Ns. and I'm with public service aller. Thank you so much. >> Thank you everybody once again. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you.
>> I'm stuck on here. >> Oh, what? >> That was theirs. >> Oh, yes. It's still there. >> How you doing? >> Good. How are you >> doing? Well, thank you. >> It's a little more intimidating up closer up to you guys than back there,
honestly. >> Yeah. All right. Well, um, should we begin? >> All right. Well, first I want to >> Oh, there we go. Cool. All right. Perfect. Well, first I just want to introduce myself and thank you guys for your time. My name is Steven El Hassan
and I am the proud owner of Oagel is a second generation business. It's part of my life since I was 5 years old 1995 in a small town of Sterling, New Jersey. And uh throughout the years, I've just been so proud to continue to grow. And
my my mission in life is really to serve millions of people, a product that I absolutely love while creating wealth for others and creating an ecosystem and being a community leader in every environment that I'm in. So I couldn't be more excited about the opportunity of opening up here in Princeton. One, I was a horrible student, so the fact that it
took me 20 years to be a part of Princ University makes me feel really proud and pumped up. Obviously, it's serving bagels, but here are there. And I'm just really excited about being a part of this great community. and I understand the significance and the importance of the historic society because I opened my
first personal location in Hoboken, New Jersey. Um, so I have complete understanding of of why that is and I honestly didn't understand when I first opened it, but now being there for 10 years, I now am so grateful that what we've been able to do. I also have another business in Hoboken as well and
uh I see a lot of similarities in Prince univer Princeton I say university just because I want to be there but in Princeton as in Hoboken and uh so essentially what we're here for today is to talk about the exterior. It's okay. >> I I'll just speak on behalf of all of
us. I'm Stephen. Oh, you have to swear. >> All right. >> Always. Yeah, absolutely. Um, so ex essentially what we're speaking on behalf of is the exterior facade. I believe it's a diamond in the rough. I think there's an
amazing opportunity here to create beauty while also really staying true to what the historic value is of this great town and this great location. So, what we want to do is not to add any crazy neon or anything like that. At the end of the day, we love the old school feel
of a traditional bagel store. We are kettle boiled old school bagels. And that's what I want it to feel like on the exterior. Um, not to be pessimistic here, but the exterior, in my opinion, looks a little rund down and I wanted to bring it to life without making it look
too modern. So, what we would want to do is change the exterior facade by just putting a sign right here on the top. It'll be cleaner. It will say Oagel. As you see, it will not be neon. It'll be a beautiful material. and to light it up
is not going to be exterior lighting or anything like that. It'll be beautiful goose necks. I think that aesthetic will be prevalent. I have the green checkered vinyl like on the side of things. And the reason why I like the green checkered is um not to bring it back, but my father had it as a checkered old
school aesthetic back in '95. And I I I'm honestly just bringing that bringing that pride back into all of our current locations as well. Um, so as you see, simple signage, O bagel, and it's that green O, our iconic green. I'm always rocking green, ironically enough. It's
my good luck color. And uh, yeah, that's pretty much the exterior. I don't know if you if you want me to pass this around as well. She does. Okay. Just to see the colors and the feel of it. Yeah, we actually just we were intimidated by the people in the beginning, too. So, we just you know, we
were I apologize if we were whispering back there, but honestly, we wanted to showcase everything that we have here. >> So, this is a little bit last minute. >> You want to just email it to them real quick. >> Oh, of the presentation. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, I can email it to you. >> Yeah. >> To to you, Sarah?
>> Can I do it right now or after? It's fine. >> The colors. >> Yeah. So, the primary color will be white. >> Um, we want to go to the next one. It's the our our Hoboken location is a little bit more black. I want to get away from
the black and push it towards white. The reason why we did black here is because the exterior of Hoboken had significantly more like uh wood trim, I guess you would say. In this location, there's a lot more uh windows, which I love. But, I don't think this building should be black. I think this building
should be white. It's right now it's a a a a tan. I don't know what how I describe that. Do you have the aesthetics of what it is now? Thank you. As you can see above the sign, I want to make that white. Same thing with the
fire escape so it doesn't look like so much like like an eyesore. And then we'll have that beautiful sign. We'll get rid of the awning cuz right now it's just filled with like bird mildew and mold and I want to get rid of that. As you can tell, I'm I'm trying my best to articulate things in a very proper
way here, but essentially that's what we're trying to do is just make this this facade as beautiful as we possibly can. >> I'm sorry, can you just clarify um you're painting the storefront or the whole front of the building? The >> both. I would like to do both.
>> Okay. Because I don't think that was clear in your original application, the whole facade. But thank you for clarifying. >> Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Please. So, behind that is where? >> Yes. >> Uh, you can speak on that. I think it's just a new creation.
>> Yeah, it should be a new creation. >> It's going to be just a a flat white paneling. And then we'll put our signage on that which would be like a uh what type of material is that? PVC. >> Yeah, PVC. >> What is the the >> It would be like here. Let me show you
an example. It would be like this. See the O bagel side? Don't um please ignore the black trimming, but if you see from the signage, it would be wood with our logo and then the gooseseneck. That's what we'll have. And it'll be a half inch thick of PVC.
So in uh relation to the buildings kind of like on the other on the two sides of this building, do you do you will sort of the signage be kind of like you know quite a bit higher
compared to the signs on the other on the buildings that are to the side to the two sides of it? >> I don't believe so. What would be the what's the dimensions of this Noah? >> It is 84. It's current the signage is >> 16 16 inches high
>> for currently the the cupcake house signage was on the awning >> correct there's no signage >> as many of the many are some are some are on both the awning awning rather and above the awning like my moons and >> correct
>> jewels thin crust they have both >> above the awning on a panel and on the awning >> yes so we would just do one think it would just be cleaner and I thought that would be more advantageous on your perspective. >> It varies like uh Manderlay is just a
panel sign alchemist embarrasser is a panel sign. Most of the others are on the awning. >> Can you go back to the existing to the photograph? >> Yeah. So So the white stri >> you want to show them the other
>> below the awning. Wait, actually, wait. Sorry. >> The Do you see the above the windows, below the awning, the white striated? >> Yes. It' be right there. It would just be like more centered. So, that would be like the white space. Once we take off the awning, we'll just make sure the
signage is in the center of both. >> Got it. So, >> and it would only be 16 in tall. >> Right. I understand that. The the white whatever this is, I don't know if it's wood. >> I don't know what that material is either. That's why we're going to just do a nice clear
>> Well, does this stay there though is my question. The what? Whatever that >> Do you see what I mean? >> It's like >> below the awning above the window. >> Yeah, we'll just we'll just keep it if if and then we'll just repaint it so it looks a little bit cleaner.
>> So, I sorry, I just a little confused. Are you installing your lettering on a panel to be installed there or are you installing the lettering directly on the building because that's how it was proposed in the application provided >> on the building. >> So you're not you're not putting a PVC
panel to then put the letters on. Just putting the letters on the building. Okay. >> Just wanted to clarify. Thank you. >> Quick question. This has to go to zoning as well. Just >> zoning >> zoning permits. Yes. But it's it's um it I confirmed with Derek that currently as
proposed it meets zoning, but yes, it will need zoning for approval as well. >> I liked in the Hoboken one where you had the gooseenecks, you had like four of them, right? Not just above the sign, but they went across the whole facade. >> It'll be because Yeah. And the one in
Hoboka because we're on the we're on an end cap, so we have an opportunity to do more gooseenecks. But you just have two here above the sign, right? >> Yes. >> No, I liked it when it went all the way. >> I'll add another one. >> I mean, to be completely honest with you, we're here just to, you know, this
is what our goals are. And if there's like a quick little modification you would like us to do, we can do that. >> You know, the goal is right now is just to get this project going so we can hopefully open up before the college kids come back in September, >> right?
you want to continue with your presenting or >> Yeah, I if there's any other questions that you may have, please feel free to ask. If I need to clarify anything else, please let me know and I'll do a better job on doing so. Does the PVC the the green and white
checker sit in a frame or something? I'm not quite sure how it how >> it's a vinyl on the front. >> It'll be a vinyl. There should be a clear vinyl on the on the window trim >> to to see the the blue area. >> Yep.
>> It'll go underneath that blue area. So, it just be a clean aesthetic. Do we have Monontlair's uh visual? >> But is it like glued to the window or I don't understand. >> Remove the window? No. As of right now, no. >> Sticker that goes It's like a >> Can I speak? >> Yeah. It's a pretty much a sticker that
goes on the outside of the window. It's a vinyl. >> Um it sticks >> sticks on the window. Yes. Got it. Sarah, maybe you could walk us through what you know about what's behind that awning. I'm a little confused on that. >> Sure. >> Thank you.
>> Yeah. So, I'll I'll go through the comments as it's it's out outlined in my report. Um, regards to the building and its history. Uh, the proposed project consists of the removal of the awning from the storefront, repainting of the storefront facade from the cornis and below in white, and the installation of
new signin lettering and goose neess lighting directly into the existing signband. The properties located in the central historic district as shown municipal overlay zoning map of historic districts and buffer districts maps on the west side of Witherspoon Street between Hullfish and Nassau streets. The central historic district encompasses
the core of the central business district and several univers Princeton University buildings. Buildings within this district are of diverse architectural styles ranging from the 18th century through the 20th. This block of Witherspoon Street was primarily residential until circa 1900 when the majority of the dwellings were
converted to mixeduse buildings with storefronts and occup uh with storefronts occupying the first story. Historic Sandborn maps indicate that 34 Witherspoon Street was a circa 1880 Italian8 style single family dwelling until circa 1906. Uh, and I have
additional maps in the back of the report. In the early 20th century, the southern half of the first story was converted into a storefront with the northern half following sometime prior to 1918. Based on the photos provided by the applicant as well as available historic photographs
from the Historical Society of Princeton and the 1981 Princeton Architectural Survey, the current figuration of the storefront with a central paired door was most likely modified in the mid- 20th century. However, the corners directly above the storefront dates to 19 circuit 1918.
Uh and then per my comments and recommendations um staff finds the proposed project generally retains the building's historic use, features and spatial relationshipships as well as the overall historic character of the property that qualifies it as a contributing resource
to the central historic district. Staff recommends that the commission consider the following while conducting their review. Whether proposed project meets the secretary of the interior standards for the treatment of historic properties, namely the treatment measures of preservation rehabilitation. Whether the proposed project preserves or enhances the historical or
architectural value and character of the structure. Whether proposed project is appropriate to and compatible with the existing structures of the historic preservation district. Whether proposed project would adversely affect the exterior architectural features and setting of the structure as well as its historical and architectural
character. Whether post signage colors and lettering are appropriate and visually compatible with the colors on the building and within the surrounding district. whether the design, lettering, and scale of the lettering are appropriate and visually compatible with the building at 34 Wither Witherspoon Street as well as the neighboring
structures. >> So, it was in your report that we had some of the historic photos. >> Yes. >> Can we bring them up somehow? >> Yeah. I just want to reiterate. I'm sorry. So, because you brought up a great question
about what's behind the awning, >> right? >> That's what I'm trying to work on. Yeah. >> Oh, sorry. Yeah. So, behind it, it's it's wood paneling already. It just needs to be repainted. So, instead of Monontlair, see, if you see be back here, I apologize, but we created a this
black facade. It's not going to be like that. If anything, it's going to be true to the actual material and it's actually going to restore the historic component of it >> way more than even this to be completely honest with you. >> That's why I think we just paint it white cuz it has a beautiful white
paneling to it. This picture doesn't do it justice. I think Danny to my left has a better visual of the >> Yeah, if you zoom in this this one needs to be pulled up >> and then you can zoom in. But then in
terms of um in terms of the scale uh of the sign. >> Yes. >> So is that going to be so I can see I can see the size. >> No it wouldn't be as large as M. It's not no it'll be 16 in. Much much smaller. >> Yeah. Much much smaller. >> Oh good.
>> 16 by 84. So it'll be 8. It'll be wide but again the height will only be 16 in. >> It's just a less than foot and a half. And if you and if you look closely to the wood paneling, if you remove the if you remove the awning, it's
>> it continues, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Do you think the sign goes here? >> Goes up here. >> Okay. the lamps go >> and then this gets >> right
>> and the the middle of our logo will be right above the 34. >> I think I I like the approach in its simplicity, you know, it doesn't not trying to recreate anything, not trying to cover things up. Um that other project you had in other town that's
that's cool looking but that's not our location >> exactly. >> Um I think that um it's a pretty good approach. Uh you may someday want an awning. >> Yeah, I might be. Uh I might be doing
umbrellas or something like that like the outdoor seating environment they have on on Witherspoon. Like I said before, we're not you know we're not Starbucks. We're just trying to like complement whatever community that we're in. >> Got it. Mhm. Other questions from the commission. >> Just out of curiosity, is the
checkerboard look part of your your corporate identification or >> It's part of our trade dress. Yes. Just to make it so more aesthetic because if if you see that the tables there, it gets dirty behind it. So, just to prevent that, I thought it would be a
little bit more kind of like less of an eyes sore. And once it's all clean, I think it'll look I think it'll look good. And are you the franchisee or the owner? >> No, no, I'm I'm I'm I'm the owner. >> You're the owner? >> Yeah. Yeah. I'm not a franchisee.
>> So, you could make the sign a little bit smaller if you wanted. >> Sorry. >> You could make the letters on the sign a little bit smaller if you wanted. >> On the on the on the sign. Oh, no. 16 inches is small. I feel like I have Thankfully, I have contacts on. You're not going to be able to see it. 16 in is
is very small. >> Questions, comments? Ready to make a motion? >> If the bagels are good, they will come. >> I like that. Well said, Roger. I agree with that. >> Yeah. I just wanted to say it's a lot better than what is presently there now. >> It's a great improvement. And like
someone just said, >> I hope the bagels are really good. We could use a real good bagel place in Princeton. >> When I open, I got you on catering. I'll tell you that. Well, then you have to stay for a while. Yeah. >> So, Sarah, this is a letter to the
zoning board or is it a or >> No, it's still um because I think at this point it's not a development application. It would just be for permitting. So, this is still pres normal preservation plan review application. >> Anyone want to make a motion to that effect?
I'll make a motion um to approve the application as presented. >> Second discussion. >> I'll second >> the gentleman in the back. Is that part of your group or
>> Yeah, it's part of my group right there. >> I'll stop asking about >> comments from the public. All right, then. Um >> get a vote. Roll call vote. >> Roll call, please. >> Mr. Shatskin, >> yes. >> Miss Capazolei, >> yes.
>> Miss Freriedman, >> yes. >> Miss Kosvnikova, >> yes. >> Chair Sher, >> yes. >> Thank you. >> Thank you so much. >> Good luck you guys. >> Thank you so much. I'm excited to be serving you and the great community of Princeton. >> Did you bring samples? >> Yeah, we're we're looking forward to it.
>> Yeah, I'll send them to Sarah. Is that okay? >> Yeah. >> Did you bring samples? >> That'll be rising. It's all about the early morning. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Thank you so much. >> All right. Thank you. >> I guess the next phase is um sorry the I
I forgot about the the formality of it. So it's after the store society then it's >> the zoning correct >> the the commission. Yes. We will um I'll follow up with your resolutions and approvals. >> Thank you. >> Um when they go through and then Yes, you'll go to zoning for the signage permits.
>> Okay. Great. What was your name again? >> Sarah. >> Sarah. Thank you so much, Sarah. >> No problem. >> We appreciate it. Thank you guys. I know. I know. I know. >> But if they're certain, >> you know, you can't do bad.
>> No way. >> Comment. Oh, it is my report. >> I Yeah, >> I Well, I guess my report is more of a question of how we feel with our first goround of electronic agenda packets. >> Say that one more time. I'm sorry.
>> How we felt about the electronic agenda packets. >> Good. I thought >> I said it's okay. >> I thought it was okay on this last application when I couldn't see some of the stuff that I had looked at previously and I didn't print out photographs of my I didn't print
everything out. I printed out the I printed out basically your report to follow because everything else dovetailed to it, but I didn't have the pictures. What do you What do other people think? >> Um, it worked well. >> Good. >> I mean, one thing I did in the past is
if you have some kind of like iPad thing, you can store the reports and photos on Google Drive and then just pop it up during the meeting. >> So, I've done that a lot.
All right. There's >> you're going to contribute toward my iPad. >> Yeah. >> The only other thing I have um so I guess we're going to say let's keep keep trying that. >> I mean, we haven't had a really big complex thing or or new. I mean, if if
Well, whatever. >> Yeah. I I think that those will really be kind of more of the test, but I >> Good to hear so far. Good feedback. >> Yeah. So, the other thing related to our functioning is the meeting schedule. And
um I really wanted to have Shirley here and she's not here tonight because of conflict. She was here tonight about safety, I think. >> Mhm. >> So, we'll we'll defer the question I guess another month on on what our set date is, but the rest of everybody seems
making Tuesday's work. And from what I understand from from Freda is that she had three months where she couldn't do this. And so we've now done two or three of them. So next month >> I don't think we I don't think we can
come to a resolution tonight without having Shirley's input. >> Right. >> And David, is it right now the last Tuesday? >> It's March 24th, right? >> Yeah. It's the fourth Tuesday of the month. Whether that's the Tuesday the last or not depending how the month works.
>> Okay. >> Right. Like actually March has five Tuesdays. >> So this is our next one is the fourth Tuesday >> which is the 24th. >> Anything else anybody else wants to
bring up? >> You had a couple of quick things. Um, once I was on the uh Office of Historic Preservation website tonight and I saw that there's a beta interactive map. >> Mhm. >> I don't know if anybody's looked at
that. Is that something Ian could talk about? I mean, it looked good. At some point, can somebody from staff run us through it and whenever it's not beta or maybe it's more
along the lines to being totally launched or >> Yeah. So, right now it's it's pretty much on I mean it's on the website, but it's you know tucked on the page versus say on the homepage or something like that. Um we're slowly trying to get our maps more public. So, right now we did a
kind of a sample of the MI in Princeton, tried to make that super visible, accessible, and then um on our planning page, we also have an interactive zoning map. So, we're trying right now they're they're on our website. We're just not really pushing them uh too much, but I'm I'll take any
feedback on it. As far as the historic one, um I basically combine layers from state uh Data. So, it's historic districts. Um there's some stuff from Lucy. I think as well the historical data. So, it's just kind of combining m
um the national and local historic districts, the locally designated historic districts. Um I think there are uh zoning possibilities and it's really just uh you punch in an address, you can get a pop-up box, >> so it'll give you the block and lot.
>> Is there any reason you lump the state and national together rather than separating those? I mean, that was more of just uh fewer boxes for the people to click through. So, I I mean, I can split them. >> Yeah, I think it would be better to split them because they're not they're
not contiguous. >> Not always contiguous. >> Um >> Sure. >> Yeah. No, that'd be great. No, it look like a great start. I I wasn't sure why the parcels were on there. Um some of this was is used as an internal
tool. So when Sarah writes reports, I know Elizabeth had um had used it as well. So when you have partial uh information, so like maybe the public isn't necessarily for uh blocking lot, maybe it's not their first thing of
mind, but um not applications. We do request it, so it's out there. Um I mean, if there's anything in particular that you'd want to see detail-wise for historical, please let me know. We can see if the data is out there or make it visible. Yeah, somebody should just send the link
around so people can look at it. It's kind of hidden right at the top like a graph or two down on the uh historic preservation office page. >> Yeah, we're sort of doing a soft launch because I I So really what we're going to long-term vision there's going to be
more of a mapping page and we've talked to the web master here. Um, and it's really going to be more of like a a true mapping landing page that'll have I don't know five or six public maps of various themes. So, right now we're just kind of in a sense soft launching it,
but yeah, I'm happy to resend it to everybody and give it a shot. >> Yeah, it's fant I mean I don't mean to sound critical at all. It's fantastic and great step ahead. >> Sounds good. Uh the other thing I wanted to raise as possibility I think we
talked um before Elizabeth left and she wanted to table it till Sarah was here is the idea of inviting the new director executive director for experience Princeton to come and talk to us. Um and my agenda
there is is pretty simple. I just want her to and I can't remember her name. Um, I just want to make sure that she understands the gravity of historical preservation in Princeton. Uh, and that
any promotion and development that experienced Princeton is going ahead with you has to keep the historic aspects of town in mind at the same time. I I think that's extremely good timing, Roger, because I I think the next phase
they're supposed to be going into or one of the things on their future agenda is having the ability, I don't know if it's small grant money, but something to to get some projects started, some visual projects on storefront started. And I think you're right, it would be great for have that background. Um, a lot of
those programs, a lot of the downtown programs and storefronts come from kind of a preservationleaning start. And since it's going to be coming before us, those projects in districts, um, it'd be smart. I also think that, um, even though Elizabeth Monroe has
been here as the applicant with the, uh, wagon house or whatever it was, it' be good to have her come back as as, you know, historical society executive director. I think there's some good opportunities. >> Yeah. Speaking of which, I my last
point, I am in my outreach function. I'm working with Eve Mandel. We're talking about an This is just an idea at this point, but talking about doing another adaptive reuse event
and we're thinking about focusing on Bainbridge House. Little little more complicated because we have to get the university involved as well, but uh that has a lot of historical possibilities. It was the headquarters for the historic
society for many years, the public library, and now it's Princeton's done a very nice job of rehabbing it for their uh art museum outpost right there on Nassau Street. So, right now, I'm
negotiating through the museum hierarchy to figure out who I have to talk to to get the ball rolling. But that's >> maybe I'm gonna I'll start with his office, but I was going to walk in there the other day, but they're only we open the
weekends figuring just say who's in charge here. But anyway, that's that's another thing we're looking at. >> I cool. I would like to thank Maria for her work in putting together the the
tree memorial to Elrich and she spent a lot of time and effort on that and it's very meaningful and I just want to know want her to know we really appreciate it. >> Thank you Julie. So I'll give you an update too might as well. So basically
the application is in and um so Elizabeth Monroe would like to have a flowering tree. So Taylor suggested um a red bud >> and so he's planning to be there um at some point when it warms up maybe in April and so he promised that Fred and I
could come along. The idea is to the idea is probably to put the tree kind of like um actually at the entrance to the farm because that's going to be um public property and so the town will take care of the tree so Elizabeth Mineral won't won't have to worry about
it. So that's that's the update. >> That sounds great. >> Anything else? How about a motion to adjurnn? I move to adjourn. All right.