All right, everybody ready? Okay. All right. Thank you. Um, this is a regular month monthly meeting of the Princeton Historic Preservation Commission being held in person on November 17th at 5:00
p.m. in 2025 in the main meeting room of Princeton Municipal Building, 400 Witherspoon Street, Princeton, New Jersey. Pursuant to section 13 of the open public meetings act, adequate notice of the time and place and agenda
of this meeting um has been noticed by transmitting a copy to the Princeton packet, town topics, the times, the tranonian, and by filing a copy with the clerk of Princeton who has posted this to the municipal website
www.princetonj.gov gov meet/meings and post it on the official bulletin board at the Princeton Municipal Complex, 400 Witherspoon Street, Princeton, New Jersey. Um, Elizabeth, do you want to call the role?
>> Yes. Miss Satderfield. >> Mr. Shatskin, >> here. >> Miss Howard? >> Here. >> Mr. Shore, >> I'm here. >> Miss Freriedman. Miss Croll >> here.
>> Miss Maria, >> chairperson Capazolei >> here. >> All right. Do you have any announcements, Elizabeth? >> No announcements. >> Okay. Um, like I said, we are waiting for a number another member of the
commission to arrive, but we have a lot of business to take care of ahead of time. So hopefully she'll be here soon. Um, public comment. I know there's one person who'd like to, if you want to
come on up. >> Thank you. >> My name is Bill Shields. I'm actually a resident of West Windsor. I live on 158 Line Road, but I'm also very much uh involved with the town. I'm a chairman for 911 committee over there that put that tro that monument. I'm president of
engine company number one. I've been a 55 year member of the fire department in town. My father was a member, my brother member, my uncle was a member. We go way back to this town. So, I'm very much, you know, attached to the town and I want the best for the town. I approached the council meeting uh a couple months
back when I found out and it was in September. I found out in August that June rather that they were going to put affordable housing in Chester Street Firehouse. So, what I'd like to do, I have a two-minute thing I'm going to read to you which I presented to council and then uh I'll just give you about 30 second followup on that on what actually
I'm in process of doing now. I believe transparency is essential otherwise this is going to be a very very uh challenging and very I just really going to put a black eye on the town. We don't want that to occur. All right. So, let me just get this out here real fast and
we'll move on. All right. I stand before you today as a former chief and president of Princeton Engine Company and a proud member of a family whose legacy has been inter intertwined with a vital institution for generations. The Princeton Fire Company
number one has been more than just a fire station. It been a cornerstone of this community, a history and the broader fire service of Princeton for nearly two centuries. The building we are speaking about is not just a a structure. It's a repository of sto of stories, sacrifices, and memories that
have shaped the town. Upstairs in that firehouse, we have decades, actually centuries of historical memorabilia, including uniform photographs and artifacts dating back to the 1800s. These are irreplaceable pieces of our collective past. Pieces that speak to the bravery, dedication, and resilience
of the men and women who served this town long before us. The proposal to repurpose this firehouse for a low-income housing project, while undoubtly well intentioned, risk erasing that this history. Our history is not just mine, but that the history of every citizen of Princeton who have been
benefited from the service and sacrifices of this department. The integrity of the building, the preservation of historical records, and the memories of of impact on our community must be taken into account before any changes are made. I ask
I ask not for just a I ask not just have a former leader of the fire company but as someone who deeply cares about the town of Princeton that we find a way to preserve this legacy. We cannot allow this building to be a lost of time and his invaluable history be buried beneath the weight of modern development. It is
it is possible to balance a need for affordable housing with a preservation of our town history, but that will require thoughtful planning, community engagement, above all, respect to the sacrifices that have shaped the very fabric of Princeton. In closing, I urge you to reconsider the proposed plan and
secure explore the alternative alternative that honors both our present and our past. Let us find a way to ensure that this legacy of Princeton and Fire Company number one is not erased but preserved preserved for the future generations. Now I presented that to the council meeting back in end of the
summer when I found out this was taking place. I also gave to the council I say packets or multiple use for that building that could benefit the town. I also in a process with the state New Jersey preservation people trying to save that building. The building itself is only 1949 it was built but actually
the footprint there goes back to 1860. All right. It's a It was the fire company. Our my department goes back to 1794. So, I'm just here today to give you a heads up what's going on. I'll be approaching you people asking for consideration as we go through this process. I'm working very close with Ed
for the affordable housing people in the community uh housing authority. I gave him copies of all the plans I had from the original building uh that was built there in the 1860 in the 1949, which is helping them immensely in planning this out. I know it's a process be a few years getting done. I hope it never gets
done and that be that but so be it. But we can't hold up progress but we have to look at it in the best interest of the town in in the memories in what the history is built there and and in for the pocketbook folks. That's the big thing. So thank you very much and I I'm sure you'll be hearing more from me.
Thank you. >> All right. Thank you so much. Thanks for coming. >> Thank you. >> All right. Anyone else for public comment? If if not, we're going to move on to the minutes. So, we'll start with March
17th. Um the people who can vote are David, uh myself, Freda, and Roger. This is when we reviewed uh Charter Club and the ramp and all that business. So,
um if are there any changes or suggestions? And if not, is there a motion to approve the March 17th minutes? Okay. Thanks, Rita. Seconded by David.
All in favor, please say, "I." >> I. Yep. Okay. Motion carried. Um, next we have April 7th. Um, the people who can vote are
Freda, Roger, David, and Shirley, but she's not here, and myself. So, this is the uh draft the minutes for April 7th. We were looking at the wheelhouse at the Updike Farm and
we were also looking at the door for the Nassau Presbyterian Church. Um motion to approve. >> A motion to approve. >> Okay, thank you. Second. Okay, thanks Freda. All in favor, please say I.
>> I. >> Opposed. >> Motion carried. >> Very Elrich centered minutes. >> Yes. Yes. And we wish he were here to vote. Um the third set of minutes is from Monday,
August 18th, 2025. And this is uh when Crown Castle had the three applications. We voted on two of them and carried one. Um it's Freda, Roger,
uh myself, and Emily. Um, so if there are no changes, would someone like to move approval of the minutes? Uh, thanks Emily. >> Uh, Madame Chair, just wondering, so this one, which was August 18th, which
had, um, Oh, never mind. I thought that I didn't realize Ed was there. My apologies. >> Yeah. Um, so moved by Emily, seconded by Freda. Okay. Um all in favor
please say I. I opposed. Motion carried. All right. Thank you. Now we have a lot of resolutions. The first resolution is uh
containing the multiple properties uh for the Princeton Theological Seminary. Um, so this is uh Princeton Historic Preservation Commission application of Princeton Theological Seminary Historic Preservation Plan
approval hardscape and landscape improvements to um Mercer Hill District. Uh let's see, does it have the addresses in here? Um
the addresses would be 44 Mercer, 15 to 17 Alexander, 19 Alexander, 2527 Alexander, 29 Alexander, and 31 Alexander Street.
All right, Madam Chair, I was wondering if I could ask our attorney um I know that with the email you sent that you said that you needed a little clarification on something, but I didn't get to actually read it what it was. Was that resolved >> the
>> with the email? I think that you said that there's there was something that was still outstanding. >> Oh, yes. You had mentioned something about driveway lighting. >> Oh, yeah. Because uh the application I think it was 29 and 31 which were adjacent to each other. Uh the I think it just says add lighting and I think that we just want to say was along the
driveway. >> Okay. So then under >> So it would be for both of those I believe because I think the driveway is split between the two properties. Is that correct? >> Yes. So um and did they was that included in the plans or did the plans need to be
revised to improve the driveway? Um the the lighting I believe was approved as is, but the one on 31 uh they needed to and you had added in there that the landscape should be adjusted so it's not in front of any of the existing windows on the building.
>> Yes. So I think for um under the section um one it's whereas it has a lot of numbers underneath it. one, two, third page that says what the applicant is seeking >> that will just be revised for
>> 29 and 32. Note that they are also seeking approval of driveway lighting. >> Okay. On E and F, >> yes, >> 29 and 31, in addition to driveway with parking lot or and driveway, they'll both be
uh having driveway lighting. >> Okay. All right. Um, >> I think it's pedestrian light changes. >> But I have a question. >> No, she doesn't. Right. Okay.
>> All right. So, >> yeah. So, I think that that lighting is actually more like pedestrian lighting and not driveway lighting, you know, even though they're using the driveway because it was for the residents and the neighbors to be able to cut through to get to the seminary lands.
>> But, I mean, since it's at the driveway, would we still call it driveway lighting? >> I had it in there as pathway lighting. >> That's good. >> Okay. pathway. All right. So, 20 >> It's already in there. We don't need to I have install pathway lighting in there. >> Okay. All right. >> Okay. >> Okay.
>> We don't need to do anything to it then. >> All right. Any other changes or suggestions? Um now, because Roger voted no and Emily voted
no, >> I don't I don't think it matters because it's just the facts of the meeting. So because it's just >> typically we just have the people only the people that voted yes on the resolution vote on the resolution. >> All right. So it would just be
>> Yeah. So it would just be myself and David then we need >> Yeah. I mean, I think it's fine, but but but is it true because they didn't vote in favor of that they can't u approve the >> they do, but in this case, we would I would say you would invoke what's called
the doctrine of necessity, and we have to have them vote because we just don't have >> Okay. members. >> Okay. Would did you vote on >> Yeah, you weren't. Yeah, you weren't here. So,
all right. So, this is just a document of what happened, >> correct? >> Um, but do you want me to do roll call or do you >> Sure, let's do roll call. >> Okay. Um, Mr. Shotskin.
>> It's just to votes. >> I mean, so we need a quorum to >> you need a vote on it, >> right? >> And then a simple majority of those that are eligible to vote.
>> So what was that? You you vote. >> No. >> No. >> No. No. What? >> So he's he's not voting for the resolution. So >> is But isn't it just a matter of fact and not that you're >> it's it's a motion to adopt the resolution,
>> right? >> It but the resolution is a factual. Not that you're voting that you're going to approve or not approve the application, but that the that the resolution Okay.
>> Let the minutes reflect that his vote doesn't um acknowledge his support of the application, but his support of the >> facts of the resolution. Okay. All right. Miss Howard. >> Oh, she was in here. >> Oh, sorry. Okay. Um Mr. Shore.
Um, Miss Croll, >> I I couldn't hear what Rogers what the resolution was there. >> So, the resolution is really of the fact it's kind of like fact of findings for the project. You know, that that certain things were discussed and this was approved and not necessarily that you
are stating that you are in support of it, but that you're saying that it's a true resolution of what occurred with the application and what was adopted. >> Okay. In that case, yes, this is >> okay. >> Correct. >> Um,
>> chairperson Capazolei. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, that's okay. Great. >> All right. Thank you. All right. We have more resolutions. Um, we have the resolution for Glen Freeze, um, and the owner, um,
Kevin and Alicia Mers at 210 Cherry Hill Road, demolishing the existing pool house and building a new pool house in the Tuscalum Historic District buffer. Um, would someone like to make a motion?
Okay, thanks, David. Thanks, Emily. So, it was uh motion was made by David and seconded by Emily. >> Question for you. I didn't get who um who for the motions for the the seminary ones. Oh,
>> did I miss that? >> Oh, did we do that? That I think that was >> I think maybe I did go ahead on that one. Um >> you can just redo it. All right, we can redo it.
Sorry. Um, so would someone like to make >> madam chair with apologies. I just I couldn't hear with um your attorney's microphone was was quiet. Um, it it >> it did seem my understanding would be that only those who were present and
voted in favor would be eligible to vote on the resolution. But it it seemed like everyone was voting. I just want to have some clarity on what the procedure is. So, we just don't have a quorum if the people who voted for the resolution um it's only two of us
>> though. So, >> usually under the MLU all that well and I don't know if I'm objecting to everyone voting, but if if when they make motions, if I if it for the record could be those who were eligible to vote, I would appreciate it. Um >> yeah, I I agree with that assertion.
We're just at this point because we don't have enough people here. I said by the doctrine of necessity, we have to have enough people to at least get the the matter to the floor >> unless it gets carried to another meeting. >> Well, again, I think the the case law says
that you you actually can it's once you've opened the meeting, but again, as long as my request would be that the motion and second be from the members who are eligible to vote. Um because I I believe under the MUL, those are the only two votes that would likely be considered. Uh but if we could do that
that would that would be my >> All right. >> So David, do you want to move the resolution for the seminary? >> Okay. And then I'll second. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. >> Okay. And then do we go back and do the
vote again? >> I can do that. >> Okay. >> So it's just for you and David then, correct? Yeah. >> Okay. Um Mr. Shore. Yes. >> Chairperson Capazolei. >> Yes. question.
>> Okay. So, we're moving on to um again 210 Cherry Hill Road. Um uh same meeting. So, would someone like to make a motion? >> I'm sorry, Madam Chair. What was that?
>> Oh, I just We're I'm asking for a motion for 210 Cherry Hill Road for the resolution. Oh, we didn't. No, no, we didn't. >> Oh, sorry. >> So, >> yeah. So, we did that for the seminary.
That wasn't for Terry Hill Road. That was for the seminary. >> Not Not Glenn Freeze project. So, now we have to do Glen Freeze project. See? Yeah. Yeah. The reason that we had to go back is because with the seminary
resolutions, I had forgotten to get a motion and a second. >> So, we just did that. >> Okay. So, now we're moving on to Glenn's project. >> Okay. Do we do we we didn't vote on that
yet. >> I didn't hear the who who who uh who uh >> David, >> could you talk in the mic? I'm sorry, I just can't hear anybody. David, you you uh Okay. And who second? >> I second it.
>> Emily. So, >> okay. >> Mr. Shaskkin. >> Yes. >> Mr. Shore. >> Yes. >> Miss Croll. >> Yes.
>> Chairperson Capazolei. >> Yes. Sorry about that. All right, everyone. We're moving on to the resolution for the application of the trustees of Princeton University 18 to 40 Edwards Place Replacement of Windows,
doors, siding, trim, railings, brick, stoops, cornerboards, skirt boards, entry details, and lighting in the Mercer Hill District. Would someone like to move that resolution? >> So moved. Thank you, Emily.
>> Thank you, Roger. So, it was moved by Emily and seconded by Roger. >> Oh, no. >> She can't get here. >> Oh, God. Is she okay? >> Um, Mr. Shaskin, >> yes.
>> Mr. Shore, >> yes. >> Miss Croll, >> yes. >> Chairperson Capazolei, >> yes. Um, Leighton just told me that Shirley is not going to make it. She fell coming out of her house.
>> Oh my goodness. Okay. So, I'm very sorry to say that for 344 NASA Street, we have just found out that our member Shirley Satderfield
will not be able to attend the meeting because of a fall. Um, we do not have a quorum for that application because
there were members who recused themselves. Um, and at this point and one member traveling for >> we tried very hard.
Okay. If you can if you can >> Yeah. Let us know. >> Yeah. So, >> so we are going to move on to our first application and uh wait and see.
But Yes. >> Uh we will go on after the first application to the third application. Um so the first application is uh 6 to 10 NASA street. Um installing new snow
guards. Um it's uh Sasha Rizzo. Um this is in the central historic district. >> Madame Chair. >> Yes. >> I believe that we have other matters prior to that application. We have that um under the quincentennial
on the agenda. Uh oh, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. All right, hang on there. So, Kip Cherry, I'm so sorry. Kip Cherry, I
see you're on the applica on the agenda just before that first application. Okay. >> So, >> sorry. >> Um, do you want to speak now? >> I can.
>> Okay. Why don't we just do it now? Okay, looking good. So, as you know, uh, for the 250th anniversary, we submitted for two state markers, and I'm giving you an update, uh, on that. And also,
um, if anyone is interested in looking at the locations that we chose, uh, I'll be happy to send you a little map so you can go out and look. I'm pretty I'm pretty sure we're going to get our
markers. I mean, I don't have any real hint, but I just sense that we are. So, it would be good if you go out there and take a look at the location and I'd be glad to send you the text as it stands. At this point, uh, we were told that de
in December we would find out who was chosen when the state historical commission take makes their vote. Unfortunately, now it's been pushed to January. So, we won't know in December. And the text and the location, the the
finite location is going to be uh reinforced after they do their public vote. So, we'll have one more take on it. So, that's why I think it's important for you all to go out and take a look, especially before the snow flies, so you can see for yourselves how
this marker is going to work. each marker, the one coming in on um Quaker Road and the one going out towards um Kingston. And I have a question for you uh to just kind of wet your whistle. How
many of you know where Pluckerman is? Pluckerman. Does it ring any bells? Plucker. >> Plucker. >> Well, that's where Okay, that David, that's good. That's where the Continental Army went after it went
through Kingston and went to Pluckerman and it stopped there to bury someone who had died at the Battle of Princeton. And that person's name was Captain Leslie and he was British, but he was a friend of Benjamin Rush. They had been in
school together in Scotland. And so, uh, Washington knew the story and felt that it was very important to give him a proper burial and so had sent word ahead to find a minister so that they would have a proper funeral funeral in
Pluckerman, which is right off of 206. If you go up north on 206, you will see a sign eventually that says Plucker. So, um, I I think these little tidbits kind of bring home the Battle of Princeton. uh it was real and and that was one of
the funny things about the application was that they wanted me to prove that it was real and there are there aren't many original documents to prove that it was real but the letters that were sent to um Leslie's father who was an earl uh
describing his death on the battlefield is one of the pieces of truth that we have that the battle really happened. So, uh, I will report more when I have more to report and, uh, stay optimistic and as I said, I'll send you the
locations, uh, if you just email to me and, um, I'll send that. So, I'll just email to everybody, then you'll all have it. Thank you. >> All right. Thanks, Kip. Appreciate it. The other matter that we had on our agenda is the uh, Revolution New Jersey
panels. Um, is someone here to speak to that? Um, all right. If Oh, yeah. Clifford, you have something a public comment or just something to update.
>> Okay. Um, I just wanted to say, Julie, you mentioned a few minutes ago that you wish Elrich was here. >> Who was that? >> That you wished Elrich was here. >> Yeah,
>> you said that a few minutes ago. So, we have Elrich to thank for helping us all understand the significance of this building. And on Sunday, this coming Sunday, the family is having a
celebration for Elrich at the Howell Living History Farm in Hopewell on Wooden's Lane. It's from 1 until 4:00 p.m. And uh there's going to be a um uh some tributes that people are
going to make to him at 2:00. HPC, everyone is invited. Uh, and um, it should be a nice gathering to celebrate Elrich. It's going to be in a barn that he and his partner in the New Jersey
Barn Company moved to the Howell Farm. >> So, it' be very appropriate place. >> Thank you. So, this is Sunday, November 23rd between 1 and 400 p.m. at the Howell Living Farm.
>> Yes, exactly. And and um there's also some conversation about having some gathering for Rick at the historical society perhaps in the spring. >> So we'll we'll if that happens, we'll
let you know. >> Thank you so much. >> Very good. Thank you. >> Thank you. All right. Thank you. and we'll we'll send an email to um remind commission members.
All right, we're going to move on to the application of Sasha Rizzo at um 610 Nassau Street now. Yeah, Madame Chair, I believe that um Daniel would like to know if there's an opportunity to reschedu their
application either with a special meeting or >> Yeah. I mean I think did they have to provide any notice for this application? >> Not for us. >> So >> yeah, so I I would be happy to work with
you to try to do that. Um hope we'll have to find out when uh Charlotte is gonna be in town because she would make a quorum. >> Um and she's out of the country so she's
the other person who could vote. >> Um Daniel, do you have any uh time restrictions like time dates that you know that you're not going to be available or your team won't be available? >> Okay. All right. between Thanksgiving and Christmas.
>> Yeah. So, if we could um I I guess part of this is not know having the information of when people are going to be available, but do you want to try a tenative date?
>> Yeah, it probably makes sense to find out inform people are available. I mean, because Elizabeth, what do you think about trying for Monday the 24th >> of February? >> No, of November.
>> Oh, I'm I'm sorry. November 24th. Is that next Monday? >> Yeah. >> Um, we could try. Yeah. I mean, >> could we try for that? Yeah, because I think what you want to do is you want to be able to have HPC um hear your application and then go to
do you know are you scheduled for next month for zoning in December? >> I think that was the hope but at least if I se I think >> yeah I think that you were hoping to um go before zoning before I left. Is that
correct? >> That was the hope. >> Okay. And is Elizabeth, can Ed cover this or does Tara have to be here? >> I think that we decided that was probably best for Tara to continue because >> I already have to be in two places at once that Monday. So adding a third is
really going accommodating it. >> Okay. What What's your schedule? How about like the first week in December? >> Yeah, like December 1st. >> Um Yep. Monday, December 1st is good. >> Okay. All right. Well, why don't we try
for that >> and we'll send an email out to make sure that we can get a quorum. Hopefully more than four so we have a little backup. Okay. >> Yes. >> Okay. And we really do apologize. We were >> not your fault. Hope everyone's okay. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> All right. Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> All right. Thank you. So, yeah. Tenative date is um Monday, December 1st for 344 NASA Street. Yeah. >> Okay. Well, let's wrap up those two applications.
>> Okay. Um >> well, is there anyone to speak to the um Revolution New Jersey brochure? >> So, I thought that Caroline said that she was going to have someone here for it, but um I guess maybe she wasn't able
to, but I think that there was a link there that showed people what the panel was. Again, um what we had told Carolyn is um we really need to know what the context is before we go before council and say we'd really like this to be um
something that HBC would support, >> right? So, it would be good to get more information about it maybe at our special meeting. >> Yeah, we could do that. I mean, I looked the brochure is fairly general. It looks like it I think I've spoken about this.
it the panels are going to focus more on what quote unquote ordinary people were doing during the revolution rather than the the main actors and the heroes and heroins we know about. Um I think it's probably worth doing. Um but the last
time I looked at the website it was sold out. So, it was subscri full fully subscribed and I'll have to go back and maybe call the the contact person to see what when they're going to open it up again. I think they from the time we started till
now, they got a very big response with a little bit of lag time, >> right? >> All right. So, maybe at our if we have the special meeting on December 1st, we could do a followup. >> Yeah, sure. >> Okay. Thank you.
Um, regarding 610, the applicant is not going to be here. Okay. But he is going, he's in Florida, that's where he lives. Um, but he was hoping this would be a simple application. Um, and he is going to be watching um, YouTube live.
>> Okay. >> Although I hope he hasn't given up. >> Um, >> all right. Do you wanted to summarize the report? >> Sure. So, uh, Serena Holdings LLC. The applicant has filed an application with the Office Historic Preservation to
install install snow guards to the roof of the existing building at address 610 Nassau Street. The property is further identified as block 19.01, lot 9 in the CBCP zone of the former Princeton Burough. The property is located in the central historic district
and classified as type two on the Princeton zoning overlay map of historic preservation districts and buffer districts which is subject to preservation plan review for any changes visible from the public right away and its visible parameters also include painting or adding other surface
coloring to an unpainted surface or adding pre- primed and pre material. This property also lies in the New Jersey and National Register of Historic Places historic Princeton Historic District and the Kings Highway historic district. Um I think that HBC is
familiar with the history of both those districts. Um so just to go ahead um the building on this property received numerous approvals which really first started when they sustained a fire in December 19th, 2019. And I think many of you who are here recall that all the
buildings um um excluding the paired attic windows have been replaced and new wall sconces and new and a new color scheme was approved by the HPC subcommittee. Um the color has not been um applied yet.
Um the application uh received uh in the September of 2025 of this year had asked for about 20% of their slate roof to be replaced which was approved administratively by uh Julie and myself.
However, um he needed to have the um the snow guard approved because hand in hand that's what the installation would happen. And again, because this is a new, um, material that's been installed, it needed to come before HPC. So, um,
Ian, I think that you have the samples that you could pass around. He's got the slate, which is obviously already been approved, but you could see the slate, and then the snow guard, which he had provided the sample. So, he proposed the snow guard to be a PD10R, which is manufactured by Alpine Snow
Guard. These are padst style snow barrier guards that hold the snow at with and um to the building to the roof with flat strips and hooks to anchor the system under the slate shingles. Material is a lead coated copper.
Visible portions of the snow guard will be 2' 3 and 1/2 in long with a riveted fish head design. Guards will be installed in 2x4 layout which is 4 feet on center along rows and 2 feet between the rows. and they'll be placed in
alternate locations. And the top row will start at 10 feet below the ridge. And the installation, as you see on the roof plan, is proposed only along the roof surfaces that face Nassau Street and it's really intended to protect the
Nassau Street pedestrians. Um, so that's really the application. That's what he's asking for. Uh, and there's really no other comments about this. um just that HBC should determine if the installation of snow guards are
appropriate for the historic building and if so if the style the installation method and the patterns are also appropriate. >> All right. Thank you. Do members have any questions for Elizabeth? >> Oh, and I'll note that I'm going to mark the slate uh roof tile and the snow
guard as exhibit one. >> Okay. I couldn't tell from the uh positioning diagram if they were going to have any bars because these these >> No, it's it's just the the fish. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I think then I believe it'll blend
in. It's copper. It'll turn turn dark. >> It'll match the slate and it's used in a lot of historical uh applications. >> All right. Thanks. Any other David? >> Um two things. I I noticed that at um
2-4 Nassau Street, the other large building right next door, which is where our office is, we have snow guards or snow rails, I think. And the other thing I was going to say is every year it's very dangerous out there that they have
to close the sidewalk. And it's it's hard to argue in any way against this. It seems appropriate and and necessary. and they've taken the time to find us nice samples. >> I Yeah, I agree. Anyone else have any comments?
>> All right. Sounds pretty obvious. All right. Um, would someone like to make a motion, David? >> Sure. >> I I move that we approve the snow what what are these called? snow guard.
>> Snow guards as opposed to snow rail. Um uh as as the demon as the um samples were submitted. I don't think there's anything else. >> Nope. I think that's it. >> Second. >> All right. Thanks, Roger. Okay. I guess
we'll go to a vote. >> Mr. Shatskin? >> Yes. >> Miss Howard? >> Yes. >> Mr. Shore? >> Yes. >> Miss Croll? Yes. >> Chairperson Capolei.
>> Yes. Thank you. >> All right. Uh we will move on to um the application for six evil in place. Um uh this is a uh a setback variance.
Um this is a project that we had uh approved recently. And Elizabeth, did you want to go over your report? >> Sure. The applicant six, excuse me, Eland 6 LLC has filed an application request of
variance for a new single family house that was built in the front yard setback. The property lies in the Jugtown historic district and is identified as block 34.01, lot 7 on the Princeton tax map and is in the R3B burrow. is further identified as
having an address of six Eland Place. The application is in the jurisdiction of the of the zoning board of adjustment with with which the historic preservation commission serves as as advisory to the board. Jugtown is also classified as type two historic district
on Princeton zoning overlay map of historic preservation districts and buffer districts was subject to preservation plan review for any changes visible from the pro public right away. Um, I'm just going to kind of go forward with this. Um, as HPC probably recalls,
this application came before them. Um, I believe it was in 200 24 which was approved with some conditions which they satisfied. Um, it did not need to go before the planning board, the zoning board. It was strictly
historic preservation application. Um and during construction, um they discovered that the building was built within their prevailing setback. Um and I believe that the variance that they're requesting is for a twoft relief. Is
that correct, Mr. Kennedy? >> It is. >> Um so the HPC has just asked if they find that this is any if it impacts the property, the streetscape, the district negatively. Um but what I would like to
say is um you know HBC never wants to support an error. So if they do uh find this acceptable or that they have no objections, I think that maybe the best way to state that is that they
have no objection versus supporting it. I think that we just don't want to use that term. >> All right. Thanks, Elizabeth. All right. I'm going to turn over to Mr. Kennedy. Um, thank you, Madam Chair. Um, and Elizabeth, much appreciated. Um, since we will need a witness, I'll ask our
architect to sit up with me just to make sure I'm don't slip into testifying, but um, uh, Ryan Kennedy from the law firm of Stevens and Lee for the applicant. Um, as Miss Kim said, uh, I think everything she described is correct. This is a home, uh, that was approved
um, in the form that you're looking at on your screen uh, at an earlier meeting. Um what's very interesting here is that it was actually approved at the exact location um that it was built at. Um we'll talk through that very briefly. So just get an understanding of um both
just the unique nature of this lot, the unique nature of setbacks on this street because it's so small where one of the three houses to compare is actually perpendicular to it. um a nuance that I think our team wasn't familiar with uh with prevailing setbacks when you don't
have enough to create the averaging uh and ultimately what we think is a uh I'll say minimal really a no impact uh to um any of the items that setbacks are meant to uh consider. Um, so I'll just
again so I don't end up totally testifying uh in in uh if if Jeff Fleer, our architect, just could come in. Um, uh, he's been before this board many times would ask if he could be sworn in uh this evening just we have a witness on the record.
>> U, Mr. Flecher, can you raise your right hand? Do you swear that the testimony you're about to give this evening is the whole truth to the best of your knowledge? >> I do. >> Yes. Thank you. >> All right. Um, >> I do. And and uh Jeeoff, you've appeared before this board many times as an expert in architecture. >> Yes, I have. >> Including probably on this actual
application. Yeah. >> We have one exhibit. Uh it's seven slides. Uh one of them is what you're looking at. The last one says thank you. It's it'll be quite short. Um >> um first on on slide two. Um and uh Terra, if if we marked the entire thing
as as one. >> Yeah, this is short enough. I think it's fine to just mark the whole thing as exhibit A1. >> Thank you. Uh so Jeff here this is uh in blue is the subject property six Evelyn place. >> Yes. >> Um this next slide um marked out. So as
as part of getting it set back calculated in Princeton you you speak to the zoning and engineering office. They give you the other items on the street. Um I guess this is particularly unique street um where there are not enough houses to actually calculate an average.
And interestingly, of the three on the side of the street, eight Evelyn, which is perpendicular um at the end of the culde-sac, was one of the three. >> That's correct. Yes. >> Um and normally when you're calculating a prevailing setback, uh they give you a
number and then you can build a home plus or minus 2 feet from that number. >> Yes. Uh but I guess in this case they gave you because there weren't enough to do the average under the definition they gave you a number but it turns out you cannot do plus or minus 2 ft.
>> They they gave me three to choose from. Um 33 was the smallest. So we chose that assuming that we still had the two foot to play with. >> And as it turns out in this scenario you do not. Um going to our our next slide,
the same aerial map with the you know three the three example um uh setbacks shown and then the again because it's at the end of a culdeac with a undulating um frontyard setback. You could see both
where the house was placed how Jeff designed it to follow the setback. Um, interestingly, the part that is closest to the neighbor's house could have been closer to the street um, from a setback perspective. So, this is actually set
back from the absolute um, closest to the street that it could have been. Um, and unfortunately, we'll zoom in on a little bit, um, because it was placed in the field at 31 ft rather than 33.
um which again was as it turns out what this board was shown when it was initially approved here. Um that little corner that's circled of the front room of the home clips into part of that undulating setback.
Um here is the revised kind of as built well as partially built. I'll let Jeff talk about that in a second. um location of the dwelling where you could see the difference between 31 and 33 ft and how it clips that little corner of one of
the staged setbacks that was designed uh in the home. Um here we've got the renderings that would have been part of the original project where you could see both on the site plan where that corner is and what part of the house that represents. Um
and uh Jeff, if before we go to a slide, this is Thank you. Just update the board. Um you know, ultimately uh this was something that the the homeowner or the the property owner developer found. Um they noticed the the
the field, we'll call it a field mistake in the interpretation, immediately went to the town, stopped work, and we've been here waiting to see what to do to come back uh for zoning. So the home is the the foundations are set. Right. >> Um the framing is up and the question
really is what to do whether we go forward uh with a a min you know what we would describe to the zoning board is a very minor um front yard setback um request versus
something more drastic, you know, taking the home down, rebuilding it, or I suppose some type of redesign to remove that corner. Jeeoff, any anything else you'd like to add? No, I I think that that states it all that it would be very
difficult to take that corner off without affecting the the building >> and the design. >> No, my understanding is that the the literally the home that was approved from a visual perspective and a location perspective with the plot plan that was shown to this board actually was this
location. Just wasn't understood at the time that this little corner of variance would be needed. that happened later and that combined with the field mistake brings us here today. >> And that during when they were setting the building there was a little jockeying of the building because of some existing trees that they were
trying to avoid. We actually can levered part of the building moved the foundation in on the side to uh accommodate an existing tree >> and so ultimately this particular location helped with uh tree preservation on the lot. >> Yes.
So happy to answer any questions, but ultimately that's that's um what we're here to show. Uh we think this lot, you know, um I I probably would be saying this number was a dimminimous exception regardless. U but what's unique about
this street and this lot is that what what normally the code thinks about with a front yard setback are things that the eye can understand. that they are fronts of homes that are next to each other or lined up. Um here going back just a a few slides you could see two of the
homes we are actually set behind um still even in this situation and the third one that would count is perpendicular and and from a set while counts as part of the equation is hard to understand how it relates because
it's turned 90° from from the house with that this it is a extremely unique situation both us being here now mid construction of course um but with a front yard setback with so few homes to compare it to and one that undulates
that where so little of it actually is both in the setback and the home itself, the actual front that we would describe is actually set back a few feet from where it could be set back. >> All right, thanks. Yes, Elizabeth. >> Um, I just have a question. I mean,
obviously I have Derek's um memo. Um why is it that um you were not allowed that twoft buffer? Um is it because you only had three properties to compare it with? >> Yeah, I'll be honest. Um and I I'm
before the board a lot in here. I don't know that I would have known that had I been involved initially in the project. The definition of prevailing setback requires at least five homes to use. So, in the scenario where there's less than
five, the um you get to match one of the less than five homes, but in that scenario, there's not the plus or minus. In the averaging scenario, there is. >> Oh, >> and that that part of the uh ordinance is actually that sentence is at the very
end of the ordinance. >> I I admittedly have never come into the situation before. Yeah, I don't think we've ever run into this before either. Um, anyway, are there questions for
um Jeff or Ryan about the situation? >> Yeah, I have a question. >> Yeah, Rita, >> which room is that in the front that would be made smaller? Which rooms are those up? >> It's a first floor guest room and the second floor bedroom.
>> So, they're both bedrooms. >> Bedrooms. Yes. >> Okay. And it is it's a tight site and unusual shape. So we really had to squeeze those in there. >> Right. Other other questions?
>> I I guess I just had a procedural uh sort of question about this. So, because they did get approval back in September 2023, are we considering this an amendment to those approvals or is this a new and separate application and we just will make reference to the
September 2023? >> Yeah, it's a new application, a zoning application. >> Okay. >> Because they're going in for a variance. So, HPC is just going to serve as advisory and provide their memo to them. >> So, we'll provide a memo to zoning.
>> Yes. Okay. I just wanted to clarify that before we and then so if that's the case uh does it make sense then to um have the September 2023 resolution as exhibit A2 so that that can be referenced and any testimony on the record for that is
incorporated herein >> is it 23 or 24 >> I thought I saw 23 and >> I thought it was 24 >> oh it was 24 I was looking Oh you know The application was made in 23 and then heard in 24. >> Yeah, I think there was a concept review
in 23 and then and the actual application was in 24. >> Okay. >> So, well, I don't know it was included in the packet. Um I imagine there was there's a >> um there's Elizabeth's um HBO
report which I imagine predated the hearing and was there whether would there have been a resolution of approval as well? Yep. >> Yeah. Because back then they didn't need zoning board approval. So it would have been a resolution of HPC. >> So there would have been a resolution in October of 2024
I think. >> I believe so. >> Yeah. >> Yes. If you want to reference that. >> Yeah. My my only I mean I'm sure Derrick will get everything right. my only possible concerns I know and even I got some of this wrong um because I wasn't involved initial project but the what
was approved was visually there were some you know some back and forth and changes and what you guys approved was a little different than the initial plans and I don't know if that is what's reflected in the May report if that's the initial report or if the final version of what was approved will certainly represent that no other
changes are >> I think the resolution included what the conditions of approval were there was a subcommittee that actually uh worked on some architectural detail. Jeff recalls it like the the band that went around the building and the the porch
um height and also the the the the the board, >> you know, they were interested in it lining up. >> Yeah. The railings. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, it was it was more uh it had nothing to do with construction really. Is is my understanding correct
that if the street had been straight and didn't have the curve with the circle at the end, it would have been inconformant. That's that's correct. So, if you see um uh here in green is the front yard
setback. So, at the where the the front I'll just you know because we're looking from the house towards the street here, I'll say the front right the the home is in gray here. Um the front of the house if it were a triangle or if it was set up at you know even to the street could have been several feet forward actually.
So yes it it if you were to freeze that plane you know from right to left here it would have complied and actually been behind it >> and it's in line with the other two houses. Essentially >> it is in line and actually a little bit behind.
I don't I was out there and I was trying to figure out what the issue was. Um >> it's a head scratcher. Yeah. >> Yeah. And visually I don't see any difference. So I'm inclined to recommend
to the zoning board that >> that you have no objection >> that we don't have objections. >> Uhhuh. All right. Anyone else here? >> Yeah. Oh, I have there's a neighbor. Um I Yeah. Okay. This is a great time for
public comment. Go ahead. >> Hi. Um a neighbor. My name is Maggie Deppen Brock. I live at 333 Nassau Street. I just want to say um that um I you know obviously unfortunate that there's an error, but I think that they're doing an excellent job. I walk
my dog past this house and the house fits in the neighborhood. So, um I'm very appreciative of that. Um, so support of one neighbor. >> All right. Thank you. Thank you. Any other comments?
Um, if not, Roger, did you want to make a motion? >> I would move to recommend to the zoning board that they accept the placement as is or whatever. Correct. >> And I guess >> can you can you I couldn't hear you. Can
you talk into your microphone? >> Sorry. I'm not what would be the correct phrasiology to >> that we have no objection to the zoning. >> Yeah, we have no >> allowance. >> Yeah, I >> could also recommend to approve and that is allowed as well. >> Subject to the conditions that were
noted in the resolution of approval that was pre previously granted. >> You mean that the three comments? >> Okay. All right. >> I guess those would become now recommendations to the zoning board. >> Correct. Yeah.
>> Yeah. And so just to kind of touch on that because one of the comments is um is it this one? Uh >> oh no it's not that. But I just wanted to to note that the plans that um were
submitted show a relocation and a change of dimension of the garage. So it was a twocar garage and now it's shown on the drawing as a onecar shifted behind the house. And um when I had talked to uh
Joe, he had stated that he didn't want to hold it up because the application doesn't say that. We didn't have any drawings because obviously this variance is holding up the continued construction of this house. So um we would like for them to come back with that, but the
drawings that were submitted should not show that garage there. It it really should be more of the asbuilt. >> No, understood. Okay. Yeah. the the um there's a chance that that as they're reyncing the site that they would want to come back for that, but we
consciously u um meant only to ask the board for this um and get back to construction. Then if they decide to change the garage from what you saw to something behind, um we do that separately. >> Okay. So, we'll um we'll be seeing you guys. All right. So,
>> possibly. Yes. >> Roger made a motion. Is there a second? Oh, David seconds. All right, I guess we're ready for a vote. >> Mr. Schkin, >> yes. >> Miss Howard, >> yes.
>> Mr. Shore, >> yes. >> Miss Croll, >> yes. >> Chairperson Caposi, >> yes. >> Thank you so much. >> All right. Thank you for coming in. We'll see you soon. All right. Um, again, everybody, uh,
keep your schedules open for December 1st. Um, sounds like we're we're going to be back. Um, >> well, we won't have to come. This is only >> Yeah, you you guys, right? Yeah, you and
Emily won't. But David and Roger and I, >> Charlotte. >> Charlotte and maybe Shirley if she's okay. >> Oh gosh. >> What else can happen? >> Is she doing Is she okay? >> There was a note from um Marina.
>> Oh gosh, that is not good. >> Marina say she's okay. >> Oh, we are really really sad. Several of us got a note from Marina just a few minutes ago saying just what um Leighton said that you know she got disoriented but um seems to be okay.
>> Okay. So if we let her know if she can get around by December 1st and we'll let Charlotte know that we're meeting on December 1st. Was it determined that we have a quorum for December 1st?
>> Yeah. So, we hopefully we'll have a quorum for December 1st. >> So, I should still send out that email, right? >> What's that? >> I should still send out that email about Okay. All right. And that's going to be the only application we hear, right? >> Right. Is the only one we would hear would be 3:44.
>> Okay. >> On December 1st. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So, we'd be here 5:00. >> Yes. Again, it's Monday, right? And I'll just check to make do you know is there a council meeting that evening on
December 1st? That's the only other conflict we might have if they have the room. >> So we'd have a hard stop at because they start at seven, right? >> So So we have >> a meeting there. >> So we'd have a hard stop at like 6:45.
>> It might be hard. I don't think that it would work. I think I don't think you want to cap on that. Um, and so I just wanted to give the HPC some update. Um, my understanding is the posting for my position ended last Sunday and I believe that they got a
pretty good um handful of of applications. No me no meeting. Oh, uh, Leighton says no meeting on December 1st. So, let's go. No council meeting. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Um and um really my work is stopping at the
end of November. I mean I will make myself available for December and then our last meeting obviously I think we have housekeeping to finish up. Um I'll get the agenda set up for um 2026. Um, I do want to talk to Lisa because as everyone knows, Ed's retiring
and so Lisa Maddox will be um stepping in and I just want to check with her schedule to see if Monday's work because I think that she has another the municipality that um she goes to and again that would mean that she couldn't stay late kind of the same.
>> I can tell she has to be in Stockton Burough for 700 p.m. But I >> So what time would that mean? That she'd have to leave almost like 6. Yeah, but I think they may still meet via Zoom. They might not meet >> Oh, okay. >> I have to I'm not sure because I
represent their planning board. >> Oh, okay. >> Lisa, >> so you're familiar with the schedule? >> So, we meet via Zoom for the planning board, but I don't know. The governing body may meet in person. >> I see. Okay. So, uh so Lisa, Ed and I are going to talk and talk about her
schedule and um the only other date that might be available is Tuesday. So, I don't know what everyone's schedule looks like because um Wednesday is zoning board, Thursday is planning board. Um so, no one's going to want to go to a meeting on Friday. So, the only
other option might be a Tuesday if for some reason that there's a conflict with Lisa's schedule. But, you know, so I'm asking the the commission is Tuesday if it needed to be changed, is that an option for you instead of Monday at 5,
Tuesday at fives? It's okay with me. >> Okay. And I'll check. And Tara, um, what's your schedule like on Tuesdays? >> I have the Oh gosh, what are my
Tuesdays? I'm So I have the first, second, and third Tuesdays of the month. I have meetings. first, second, and third. >> It's not great for me. >> So, Mondays would be preferable if we could stick to it. >> Yeah. Okay. So, we'll see what happens.
All right. >> Okay. >> All right. Very good. And um and I'll let everyone know about December 1st. I'll send out an email and make sure we have a quorum. >> All right. And just so you know, our December meeting is also like our big
party. >> Yeah. It's our holiday party. >> Going away. >> Yeah. And it's going to be our retirement party for Elizabeth. And we're going to use the room next door for a big like buffet. And yeah, and the
zoning. I talked to Michael. He said that the zoning board would love to come if they get an invitation. So I think that's a really great opportunity for the HBC members to meet the zoning board members. You know, you really don't get to talk with them. I mean, they see the reports and memos and things like that, but I think it's a great opportunity for
the um both to meet. >> Yeah, that would be great. And so, it's going to be >> right. And Tara, we want you to come regardless of you know what and what day is that? >> Uh what's Julie? What date is the December what? The third Monday of the of >> 15th.
>> December 15th. December 15th. So, please come. We always have a lot of food. >> Yeah, we'll put that on my calendar right now. >> And I did just check Stocktonboro does still meet via Zoom. >> Oh, they do. >> 7 p.m. So
>> So that's not too bad. >> Maybe >> I'll check to see where she usually takes her meetings. >> Yeah, maybe she 56, >> right? Or we could >> Lisa Maddox, she is stepping in for Ed from from their firm, but she has
another meeting that night. And I always I I joked I said I actually legally can't cover the Stockton Burough meetings for her because I'm the planning board attorney. >> I ethically can't also represent them. So I can't even cover for her there. >> Oh yeah. >> Oh
>> yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Well that's that's good. This is a shorter meeting than I think that any of us anticipated. >> Yeah. >> Um um is there uh anything about adaptive reuse?
Roger, did anyone want to talk about I think there was a tour of the new Triumph. You >> talked to it. >> Yeah, we talked about that before. Okay. Anything else? >> What when is that dated for?
>> Excuse me. >> When When is that adaptive reuse? >> I think that was just looking at Triumph because we that they reused the post office. >> That was in October. >> Yeah. >> Oh, it already happened. >> Yeah. Oh, I didn't know that. It was
also going to be the graduate hotel, but no, >> no, that that fell through. At least for the time being, it's on that was on hold. >> Okay, >> but it was announced at the last meeting. >> No, we had we had 20 25 people on the
tour for about two hours. Kevin Wils led it. He was in charge of the >> coordinating the construction of the new restaurant from the post office. Right. >> Very interesting. >> Yeah, it's a beautiful site. >> Yeah, I was I thought that maybe they
would use those rollup windows to like serve food, but they don't. It's just all closed, which is too bad. I thought they'd do a little bit more adaptive re >> that came up during the tour and they just said it was too much trouble to um
I I guess there are different easements in the square and >> uh well there's an easement around the the mural that's actually regulated by Shipo. >> Yeah. No, that that they Kevin pointed that out as well, but there was there
was an easement going into the square. They didn't have that much space to set up tables or >> I see. Okay. >> Anyway, well, we'll keep everybody updated on December 1st, the people who need to be here.
>> Yeah, David, >> I just wanted to share with everybody that this past weekend I was at a conference in Providence, Rhode Island, Association of Preservation Technologies. One of the sessions that I sat in on that's germanine to our group uh is something that every community of
all sizes nationwide and perhaps around the world is how to insert more uh particularly affordable housing and mid-level housing particularly in historic districts. And I I took a bunch of notes. We'll see if anything ever comes of it. I'm happy to sit down and
talk to anybody anything I learned. But I think it's something we should be keeping our eyes open about. um we don't have to invent everything ourselves. We don't have to endure everything by ourselves. We can kind of figure out how to make that balance work. And I think
that's what we all want. And then I I was fascinated by the guy from the the fire company coming in and saying, you know, these transitions of buildings, it's it's hard and it's something we got to all pay attention to. There's a lot of values. >> Yeah. >> And so I think it's it's interesting
times. >> Yeah. It's it's and it's um it's hard because these demands for housing came all at once since the courts had delayed for decades. So when those rulings came down, all the communities
in our area had to respond immediately. >> Yeah. I wanted to ask him what he proposed for the building, making it a museum. I'm not sure what he had in mind. Um, >> I think he has I think they're talking about um a firehouse museum
in that main area, but I guess um we'll have to wait and see what they propose. >> Yeah, it's it's a very good site for the municipality because they get extra credit by giving up a municipal building. I think doubles the number of units.
>> So, I guess we'll find out. All right. Is there Leighton? I I just just want to share with the committee and the general public that in each and every discussion that we have had with regard to the uh Chestnut Street
Firehouse uh with regard to Chief Fields, we have uh always made everyone understand that we understand that the importance of the legacy of that firehouse and exactly what he said. We have heard, we understand, and we are
working and have been working with head Trelli of Princeton Community Housing to make sure that the memorabilia is prominent in the re in the reuse and the adaptive reuse of that building. So, we we we hear him loud and clear and we
understand the full importance of uh having a footprint there. I want the vote >> and and full disclosure, my husband's on the board of Princeton Community Housing, so I'll be recusing on that one.
All right. Any other items? If not, is there a motion to adjourn? >> Okay. Thank you. Um Emily made the motion. Roger seconded. And we're all in favor. Thank you.
I did not expect to leave leaving