will have built-in gutters to match existing gutters the wish H whah hicken shift stone is proposed for the ground level exterior walls which will match the existing um walls
which are below the the water table there's going to be a new cast stone water table which will line up with the existing water table um fa windows are proposed on the North and East Elevation on both the first and second floors and windows are going to be on the south
elevation there'll be cast stone header and window sills also um the exterior walls above the water table are going to have three coats of Stucco finish and um I believe that that will also be within the faux window
area and the roof is proposed to match the existing slate which is random with hard vein variegated green slate of varying thicknesses and um there are three different samples of that right it's not
not combination right so that's why you have three different samples and I think that that's probably answering one of my questions um the exterior trim is to match the existing which is the Lichfield gray Benjamin Moore color and
the rear Edition HBC really does not need to review that because it's not going to be visible from the public right away um the new East Terrace for the new Ada entrance is going to mimic the same material and details that are
existing for the North Terrace so the cast stone balls and railings will match the Haden Stone cast stone material and um the railing system and headers the uh what will be new is the Julius blond steel railing which is going to be added
to the ramp area uh the the blue stone pavers are going to be new because I believe it's existing out there on the north side of brick um but I don't believe that's going to be visible from the public right away the there is an existing window that will face out onto
the new Plaza um the the intent is to remove that window and the shutters use the existing window openings and install a door which is going to match in the same style as the ones that face onto the North
Terrace um the the proposed CL door is going to be wood and instead of 4' 2 in it's going to be 3' 8 in the Pavilion is going to be on a concrete P pad with fiberglass column covers and it will have a flared roof
Eve similar to the main building the slope portion of the roof is proposed at the Copper standing with copper standing seam which there's a sample down here and the low slope Center section will be a Kar roof or an eal and there is going to be a Hugo ceiling
fan which going to be installed in the vaulted ceiling area uh they have a variety of lighting um sorry I have here three but actually there's four and they're a combination of wall sconces emergency lights and uh step
lighting um the other site Improvement really that is um something to talk about is that Transformer as many commission members will will recall this is pretty large
um do I have that Dimension right I have it 7 feet 4.2 in is that correct 6 6 feet 4.2 okay so uh it's about 6 and 1/2 ft
wide 6 feet wide 6 by 7 wide 6 okay apologies um and then uh according to spec sheet there are three choices but then there are other options of painting it a different color if um that's
approved um the proposed Transformer is indicated to be approximately 35 ft from the building and 6.2 feet from the side Lot line um and then the the new Ada parking
stall as mentioned is going to be behind the elevator the the the variances there's a d variance for f which there's an existing non-conformity and so the proposed is going to increase that um
non-conforming variance and then there's two c variances which is the minimum building setback because of the increase of the um elevator location and and then there's accessory loading birth which is
required so Madam chair what I'd like to do is maybe give the applicant an opportunity to make their presentation then come back to the comments if that's okay that that sounds great thanks for coming so hi I'm Mora ment talk partner
at Ford 3 Architects I'm here with Bob roli who is a CL Club alumni and our legal representation for the evening Holly Trump who is the club manager Bob Chittenden our mechanical electrical palming fire protection engineer and
Aaron Collins project architect extraordinaire for our team um so I guess we you know appreciate you um hearing our application tonight I think I'm just going to start with Holly very briefly talking about the Club goals for the
project Madam chair do you want to have all of them um swor at the same time ter thank you sorry everyone that's going to testify if you would raise your right hand do you swear that the testimony you're about to give this evening is the whole truth to the best of your
knowledge yes yes thank you could you just spell everyone's name so we have it for the recording secretary sure um so mine is m o i r
a mlto m c c l i n t o c k um Aaron Collins is e r i n c o l l i
ns uh Holly Trump h o l l y and then Bob Chittenden um b o b let's see if I can do this right Bob will spell his own last name chitton c
hii TT e n d n that was tricky and then what was Holly's last name Trump t r r u m p we know that thank
you yep well good evening everybody thanks for taking the time to meet with us uh and your efforts thus far to get us to this point it's been probably a vision of over 15 years of thought and process and in the last two and a half
years it's really become something that is it an important part of our clubhouse uh back in the day as Moira will show you later in the clubs only had like 20 or 30 people in them and now we are boasting of over 202 members on a
regular basis plus we had another hundred in the springtime so we're up to over 300 members in the club and the university continues to up their uh their class sizes so we have to kind of keep up with things in two ways not only
are we there to service and and you know become a pass through for a unique experience of watching all of these young Souls come through but we also are part of a process where what we do moving forward is falling into to a
category where we're all moving in uh Savings of energies and things like that and forward thinking um so like our whole energy base of what we're doing for that is about increasing our our uh overall electrical is to also put into
pieces that are uh you know talking about car chargers and things like that they're all essential pieces moving forward for the club and we're kind of living on borrowed time where we are now with only 300 amps of service so um I guess the most important thing is I'm
responsible for almost 4,500 people that have either been members or alumni and it's way has weighs heavy on me that we continue to still have the same feel that the old girl from 1913 has and she kind of speaks to us and tells us things
that we should do to keep her in the same vein as we TR you know go forward into making her newer and better we still want to keep that heart of what they experienced we I saw have people from the 1950s and 60s that come in and tell the stories and want to see things
that they will always remember fondly but whatever we do to the exterior of the building especially with historic preservation thank you okay um so Elizabeth gave a very you know detailed overview of the project so
I'll try and move through my presentation quickly can you all see it on your screens or are you going to have to turn around yeah okay so um before I got into really talking about what we're intending to do I wanted to talk about the um historic
context of the building before you get too deep into it was this submitted as part of the application packet or is this a so this is a exhibit this is a new exhibit uh we did we did submit I mean so we because basically we you know we had sent Elizabeth a presentation on
Friday that that she did put onto the website but then we um once we received her Memo we updated that presentation in order to um you know respond to some of her comments more fully so make can we submit this as a new exhibit yes I would
just say um we don't have to March Mark each slide individually just as Mark it as one exhibit a one consisting of 25 slides okay so this is exhibit A1 25 slides
um so you know just I wanted to start with talking about the context of Prospect Avenue and the building site since a lot of the comments we received um in the HBO report dealt with some of
those issues so the Charter Club their first building was actually in 1903 and they purchased an existent house on Prospect Avenue it was renovated by David Adler to meet their needs at that time when it was built Prospect Avenue
was a highly pastoral landscape it looked out into the valley to the South and then immediately to the north was you know the University's football field and this sort of instantly established what Holly was getting at which was that
these clubs came to serve not only the undergraduate students but also the alumni and really are a um you know a key mechanism for retaining alumni engagement in the university in 1913 the club decided that
the David atler building wait let me go back one second sorry just one small thing um you can see in the background here this is the building that was the squash court it is unclear to us whether that was a purpose buil building when
the club moved into this property or they adapted an out building but so it was existent prior to the melar and migs building um in 1913 the club demolished the David Adler building and constructed
the M melar migs building here's a view from around 19203 again you see the squash court building in the background um other noticeable things to pay attention to are you know the low hedge r at the front which still exists today
and the sort of more sparse plantings around the building [Music] um we went into the I'm not going to go into the architecture of the building because we talked about that previously so at this time the surrounding area was
still as described previously you know fairly open to the South um this is in the 1930s you know the university did move the football field to the back but you still have this sense of expansive landscape looking out out from the
building um you can see here in this aerial view Yar and migs had um purposefully created this sort of it's actually more of an L-shaped plan that is open to the southeast allowing sun to
stream into the building um and the Gathering spaces for the students uh here's that little squash courir building you know you can see the sites of all the clubs you know they all had sort of the property line plantings and
sparse plantings in the front and back leaving Central Open areas for activity so today the landscape is radically different this historic landscape no longer exists in any form um you know particularly with the Advent
of the new school for engineering and Sciences the feeling of these properties and is you just completely changed they are closed in um you know is somewhat more intimate but you do not have that
connection beyond their site so in thinking about our site development we have purposefully tried to respect the um architecture of the existing building and look at how to build upon it to meet the needs of the
club and these needs were really focused on um access for both undergraduate students and for alumni I that you had to come up a flight of stairs to get into the building and then back down a flight of stairs to get to the rear yard
which is used for all sorts of events um again expanding the dining capacity So currently this this Wing is the dining room um and what they've had to do to meet modern Food Service needs is the there's kind of a Great Hall that's like
a tea and you come in and all the food service equipment is lined up up in that great hall because there is no place to put it and most meals are self-service um this Wing held what was originally the club room and to meet you know the numbers of students and not have them
wait too long that room is now populated by tables so this addition is really intended to provide a place for the servery equipment to move to to restore that Great Hall as a space and also get these additional dining tables out of
the club room um you know maintain exterior space which is a very important part of Club life the this is the remaining foundation of the squash court you know we're taking that um from a zoning perspective we're taking that
impervious surface and sort of relocating it to the footprint of our open air Pavilion The Pavilion is rotated to really take advantage of you know opening to this space um so that it can be used as a place for bands to play
or other you know if somebody's doing speeches during reunions this is the central focal location um then coming around to the east side we have the elevator Edition this is the service side of the building
we're located it also drops down from the street we were able to fit in the Ada parking space and it this location is very convenient both for the kind of guest experience and for the club staff use
so these are just some street views of the existing conditions um with these you know looking towards where the Transformer and the West accessible entrance will be the front elevation which will remain
untouched and then on the east side looking down towards where the elevator addition will be located you can see um somewhat here the line of the Seas buildings in the background um so I'm just going to go around the site and
talk about each piece of the building um and again you know what we really tried to do here was both respect the Secretary of the Interior standards for the you know approaching a project such as this with Wow keeping in mind
the club's goals to have really a seamless feeling for their property um you know so we have the elevator addition which does have some differentiation materials the uh accessible entrance which while extending the use
of the kind of historic building vocabulary is using that in a different way and clearly reads as an addition to the building you can see the Pavilion in the background and you know just to sort of sorry not sure Choice um okay so
starting on the west side side we I know we have you know so one of the questions when we first came to see you there were a lot of questions about this Transformer and we have um looked at it extensively spoken with
psng and there really because of the service requirements of the Transformer there really is no other location on the site where it can be placed um this was actually a concession on their part wanted it up
here um you know and so we have pushed it back and it will be screened with a variety of you know native um shrubs and grasses and you know it's I I don't know how much of you guys can all see this
but it's just interesting to also note so it's being placed back here which is on the um flip side of cloyster's trash enclosure this is their trash enclosure um you can also see in this view of cloister that Clo's electrical panels
are directly on the front facade of their building um and you know again then back in the back you see the um new construction so these are the trees there were questions about which trees were being removed from the site these trees that you see in the photos are the
ones being taken down they're primarily um a collection of overgrown U's and then there is one very large pine tree um so those will all be removed and new plantings
introduced so the new plantings um are you know so the number of trees that is being proposed is directly relates to the municipal tree replacement ordinance um and then we have as I mentioned before the kind of shrubs and
grasses um I know there were some questions about the density of this and you know we can talk you know it may be you know that we want to you know the planting you know I don't know if we want to
discuss approving the concept of shielding these with shrubs and then come back in with a more detailed planting plan that's something you know I think because it is it's you know until the piece is dropped and we really see it in
more detail you know that would be like the club has been struggling with okay we know that these are the plants that we need to meet the ordinance requirements but you know there's a desire somewhat to finalize the placement as we get deeper into the
project um so you can see the you know kind of proposed trees being planted along the walkway back to the Pavilion and again here's the current view with these you know the West that side is very blocked um and so just you
know in further thoughts about these plantings there are a number of challenges in where to locate these new trees so the rear of the lot well they look like they have a big lot with a lot of open space this portion belongs to the university and they do not have free
rain over what they do there um you know and then this side of the building is already heavily paved and you know the club really wants to keep the center open for activities they put up big tents at reunions to have these trees
you know out in the middle would become a functional hardship The Pavilion itself is a simple open air structure there were some questions about the lighting for it it's lit by down lights in the ceiling the
ceiling is elevated from the front beam line um so they'll be down lights in the upper ceiling and two ceiling fans that won't have a the drop will keep them above that beam line as well so the rear Edition and we have a
kind of a small correction with the description of the extent of demolition for the rear Edition the rear addition um while sitting where the existing Terraces are you know to maintain that connection to the outside it actually
only requires the removal of this upper level balcony and the structure supporting it this lower the lower walls and spaces within them will remain um the you can see the kind of pool room this is that room on the inside has
their pool tabl so it's the pool room there you can see the pool room exit and windows remaining um and then this back wall just gets assumed by the addition so the demolition is fairly minimal here reare
additions um and then just coming around to the side with the elevator addition uh it is so as discussed the grade drops down you will only if there were no plantings you might only see a minimal
um portion of the stone below the water table there is this existing trash enclosure here um and you can just barely see its cated roof at this point um so there were just there were questions about this in the hpo report
as well so we added these images to give you a better sense um this area in red is essentially where the elevator Edition sits and it would be primarily blocked by this large pine um just one note while we're here about the um
loading birth variance so that is an existing non-compliant condition um you we were informed we had to reapply for it but we are not making any changes to the site that you know take away
something that was compliant um right now what happens is the trucks back down here and they unload and then they back out it just doesn't meet the today's contemporary standards service
Drive um and these are just uh these are the materials you've seen down here with the addition of the Slate so the existing uh building slate is a blend of colors we were proposing to
um continue that onto the roof of the elevator addition the um the HBO report did you know sort of ask about further distinguishing of materials there and I think it is that's one area where the club might be open to using copper on
that roof if there was a strong preference um these are details of the existant bastrd system there are um and this is something we would want to amend our um requests there are two of these
that are crumbling and in very poor condition on the front and while we were having the new ones cast we were would like to replace those two uh the lighting so we do have a memo there were a couple of um
inconsistencies between in the um hpo report and in the materials submitted with our amended submission on March 6th and that is in particular has to do with lighting so um Aaron does have copies of
a memo and new and cut sheets for some things that we would like to um submit I guess that would be exhibit B or uh A2 A2 sorry um but you know essentially we have visible from the street at the Ada
entrance there are two wall scon decorative wall scones these are meant to relate to but not mimic the scones at the front door the emergency lighting is up in the eaves of the building and is done with these very small spots they're
kind of like 6 in 6x6 they will be white to or to you know match the eve color and then this is a fixture for some um Step lighting along the ramp again it's shielded so that you know it will have a
minimal impact on the site and the exterior paint colors continue the existing um I'm not going to we have floor plans in here I'm not going to go through these unless you have specific questions just in the interest of everyone's time but hopefully we have
addressed some of the questions that were in the report report within this presentation you know if there's further questions please let us know thank you um so we are charged with
um asking ourselves is the proposed demolition the addition the site Improvement and the alterations to the building the site features and the uh property is it appropriate does it maintain the Integrity of the historic
structure is it um is it within uh the within the streetcape within the property and the special relationship with the other eating clubs and structures um do the
proposed improvements warrant supporting the variances and um the other question is about any sustainable oh uh I can talk about thatly go ahead sorry I omitted that um so
for sustainable features you know we are um part of the project is introducing a underground storm water basin at the rear of the property to gather runoff water and keep it on site uh we are as
stated you know trying to minimize the new impervious surface so you know I think that while Elizabeth you know the the square footage of the addition does
not result in a commensurate you know increase to impervious surface on the site um and then all of our new plantings are native plants that should sustain I think the other thing is what Holly touched on so um with well the
electrical upgrade is needed for the club regardless of whether they do this addition or not um their electrical service is badly overloaded um and a little bit dangerous their main shut off is actually fused in place at this
moment it's yeah we're all just kind of crossing our fingers everything's good but um the the heating and the approach to the um systems of the building is all done with electric heat you know so we are looking
at you you know utilizing energy in a sustainable fashion um there has been a little bit of additional space built into the service so that in the future when the club has the funding they can put some charging stations out by their
existing parking and do things like that so those are our sustainable features um and just one note about the um sidey yard variants is also to keep in mind um I think it's very interesting in the you know in the description of the building
from when the district was made or these all went on the register you know it notes that this is a two and a half story building and that's how it reads from the front yard but because when you go down the and the lower portion of the building is exposed on the east side to
allow for service access that's when we get into um you know needing that variance for the height of the building in addition to the setback got it all right thanks all right um I'm opening this up to commission members for questions
comments and then in relation to um its appropriateness to uh send it on to the zoning board um you know comments you might have so I could just start uh Roger did
you have anything um I think Elizabeth asked this in her Memo but I was curious about the blocked off windows in the elevator yes so the faux we had um suggested the faux Windows as a a way of breaking up the
mass of the addition and you know speaking to the rhythm of the fenestration in the building it is a um common feature of traditional architecture to they you know call them blind Windows um and you know as a way when you didn't have the opening to kind
of keep that rhythm of shadow that you might get yeah I thought that might be the answer also from the street it's that I think it's a Hemlock or a u fairly big tree right blocking the sight line from
most angles M facing the street I may not be very visible at all right we are not anticipating that'll be very visible at this moment obviously in some point that tree may meet its demise um yes so
and also the tree next to it is the only remaining Elm on the street oh and it's been nurtured and taken care of uh for a number of years now and every year now it's getting a little healthier and healthier so um that one we're
trying to make sure stays all right thanks Freda do you have any comments I just wanted to clarify the cluster of trees that you're cutting down um is that being cut down are they being cut down to install the
Transformer um they are being there's one tree that is sort of coming down relating to the Transformer most of them are being taken down to make way for the accessible patio I see can you go to that picture please sure
oops so you know if you look I think it the the pine I mean there really are the pine is sort of actually oh it's oh okay sor sorry this is this is Michael he's our construction manager
he's he's informing me yeah I the none of them come down for the Transformer it's for the um accessible entrance and the pathway okay okay um Charlotte did you have any comments or questions I really don't
okay thank you uh David are um I just have two two questions I want to understand about the um I guess we're calling them the faux windows in the elevator Tower are they molded out of
the synthetic stucco and it's actually a recess like so there's um basic it's a recess in the plane and they are finished in Stucco um there is the header and the sill are actually painted
a painted poly as trim okay thank you um and the the only other common or reaction I have is is all good you know we don't get to talk about Interiors but it sounds like the work you're doing is
allowing some of those great Interiors to be reused as as big open or appropriate spaces and I think that's a very nice thing and um I think it outweighs any kind of concern I have about any demolition or covering up
things from the back I think what you're accomplishing is is is a great goal and and um thank to be enjoyed by club members thank you yeah Elizabeth thank you madam chair so I really appreciate the applicant coming
back and addressing a lot of the comments that were in my report so that was great because there wasn't a duplication of us talking about it um I have to say that um the elevator in perspective really is very small in relation to an addition that can be
viewed from the public right of away obviously the addition in the rear um is larger but it's not visible so that's not a subject that HBC is going to talk about um and in addition that the elevator is pushed back and so it's not
in the same plane as the front I think that recess helps it to um you know make it a secondary type of addition so that's very helpful and as I wrote in the report the material of it being stucco versus the stone um is a good
alteration according to the secretary Interiors um and and I appreciate that the applicant is um considering uh a different roof material if HBC is inclined to um you know make that
recommendation um so really I think the only um issue is that Transformer and I know that this was a topic that came up at concept review and it's not something that that um that that you can actually control
but the question I have which was presented the concept review is that we were told that every Club is going to have to have one of these and that's a concern that every eating Club is going to have a Transformer like this um and
I'm just wondering is there any thought about maybe consolidating it between two properties a shared one that could be ask whether that might be possible and they said no that that yeah yeah if you yes so we actually had asked a question the utility company requires a dedicated
Transformer per building the network electrically underground is maxed out if nobody does any upgrades there's no reason to do anything else to the clubs but at this point anybody that needs to draw more power will require a Transformer we review numerous times on
site with psng to try to get this as concealed as possible the driveway side there's just no clearance to it there's no way to get a truck in they preferred to have it in the corner that you see it right up against the road they need to be within 10t of a either paved or
gravel area and we pushed back CU we did not want to see it up against the road so it is push back as far as we possibly can the shrubs screeing it you're not going to see it you're going to see vegetation that will look like what's on the street while there might be three different variations there is no option
from the utility company they going to provide what they're going to provide we can't ask for a color they're typically a green shade because they kind of melt in with the uh landscape that's around it okay so and they are not interested in upgrading their primary line in the
right of white no what are they doing for the new addition for the University that they put in I mean where are they drawing all that probably you know creates their own yeah I mean
I you know we don't have all those specifics right if you talk so I mean that's what I look at down the road you know I mean uh we've had another eating Club come in here
where their's their issue was parking you know I'm so thankful that yours is not visible from the right away you know that it was tucked in you're using a impervious space that's already there and you're redes designing it and it's in behind the elevator so
you know that's wonderful that a Transformer is a big one and you know as a landscape I can I can tell you that when you put plants in front of it everyone always wonders what's behind it because you're screening it's almost better not to try to screen it I mean
I'm not saying that to do that but I'm just saying it draws your attention to something that you're trying to screen well and I think one thing is you know that we've talked a lot about is trying to it's dropped to you know make the screenings feel like an extension of
this hedge R in some ways you know so that it doesn't feel like it feels connected to what's on the site Holly has something she wanted to add it's kind of like with this whole thing we we battled for the last two years with psng
and actually formulated a pretty decent relationship so it's kind of like the liion and the kitten you know we're the kitten and what the lion says goes you know and we we struggled trying to make this be as less obtrusive as possible
and make it still be functional for for our needs um and we are desperately needing it and then also foresight as I said moving forward into thinking things a little bit more realistically in our world today but um I think with the
landscaping and like um Moor said that we we really want to get it proposed the landscape that's there but I think we're a pretty classy group to try to get it to look like it's infused and then has some kind of
purposeful line to it I don't think anything that our Architects or people or our Engineers have done we really are thinking about the overall well-being of the street and the overall well-being of the club itself and I'm surely at the end of the day we have to answer to the
higher authority which to me is all my alumni so if it doesn't look right and it looks out of place it's all going to fall very heavy and um I think that we're very cautious and very careful because it is such a historic Place does
the um Transformer come in any other dimensions can you get it lower and longer so we can actually in no it does not there's no colar options there are the different manufacturers are about the same size we can't make a request the utility companies want to provide
what they have available at the time understood but three different models would be the same color and would be the same Dimension just trying you know the club would obviously prefer it not to be there near their new beautiful entry either well you know what's very interesting about the
Charter Club is that there really was not any changes to the original design I saw someone over there had Clifford sings book so I saw that you know that were like Partners um but when I look at the the plans that they had it really
has not changed at all even the back so no additions no alterations so that's really great you know and so I'd hate for this to to be the demise of that origal but again I think you know while it's going to be there and it
will be shielded it again is something it's it's not necessarily permanent you know it may be that 50 years you know I I expect the house to I expect the building to have a much longer life than that Transformer I guess is what I'm trying to say understood understood well
maybe I could recommend to HBC to to write in their memo to the zoning board that the HPC um welcomes a landscape subcommittee to be formed to work with the final design with the applicant if
they agree to that okay all right um other members um any suggestions for the applicant um and if not I guess we
would move to a motion okay David some move with the comment just made so moveed with the comment Elizabeth just made so we're we're suggesting to the zoning board that it's
appropriate and that we support um the the applicant for maintaining the Integrity of the historic structure and um its setting within the property the streetcape and the relationship with the other
clubs and do we add in that it's regrettable that we're forced you know everyone's forced to use this this this Transformer Dimension right and that we'd like to um have a subcommittee help with the landscape after the Transformers is
plunked in here um any other is there a second second okay fre to seconds all right we'll go to a vote Mr shatkin yes Miss Howard yes Mr sha
yes Miss fredman yes chairperson capazo yes thank you guys for coming in really apprciate very much much appreciated great presentation thank you wait all right thank you so much for
coming in all right contr contrast of our projects tonight Elite that's that's an interesting I thought that was an interesting e all right thanks everybody we like to
welcome back our our wonderful applicant the Princeton nursery school yay we're we always like to see you guys no we're frequent flyers now you're getting to be a
regular thank you all right so Elizabeth I know you wrote a report for this too you want to just summarize it real quick yes I'll just start by kind of identifying the site um
so the applicant is Princeton Nursery School who has filed an application for preservation plan review for exterior building repairs the property is identifies BL blocks 696 Lots 12 and 13 on the Princeton tax map with the
address of 78 Lee Avenue it's located in the r9t zone and sit in the south side of Lee Avenue between John and Ray streets with um Princeton University's murwick stanworth housing to its South the property lies within a residential
neighborhood within the wers Jackson historic district as as identified on the zoning overlay map um this site is also in the district type 2 historic district which is anything the HPC
reviews anything that is visible from the public right away any changes or alterations to a painted surface or a surface that is um scraped down to an unpainted or pre-primed pre-finished Surface um and as HPC knows and as the chair had
mentioned um this applicant has come before us many times and we're always so happy to see them here because we know that they're always doing a great job on their building which is very important to this historic district um they did receive their funding money and part of this work that they are
doing is um is reflective of that funding to make these improvements to the exterior um so there is water damage um that is being caused by cracks in the stucco and
also within the areas where the trim and sill are um there were some of that is related to the um the gutter um and just you know the age of the building where it is time for it to be
repaired or replaced and so the work that they're looking for is to resurface the new stucco and repair or replace window sills trims fascia freeze Bolding and half round gutters there are existing buil-in gutters but those will
remain all the finishes will match the existing all existing Sills fascia trim sofits um or are proposed to be removed and replaced in kind and shall match existing profiles uh the existing moldings however will be removed but
replaced with poly Ash with a painted finish and all these molding profiles will be custom um made to match those profiles um so the applicant is really coming here um for their approval to do
this work they are um very cognitive of the fact that uh the the North facade the street facing facade is the most important um so they have taken great care to retain any of the existing
material on the window sill or the window ch um trim where possible um but with the site visit that the chair and I had made with the applicant and their contractor um we do see that there are some sections that will need to be
replaced um the interest thing about this building is that the the trim and seill um exposure is very minimal so what they are doing is where they're replacing it
they're matching it to um have the same profile as exists so it'll be consistent with those components that are going to remain and even though they have a very thin layer of Stucco surfacing that they
will be doing um they are going to feather it away from the window and and Sills where there is such a little exposure so that the water has positive drainage out to the exterior surface instead of going into the building um so
with that said I believe that the applicant um continues to do a great job and conscientious about their building to um make it as um sustainable as possible um with the understanding of
hpc's charge to you know preserve the historic district and it's the importance along the streetscape so you know I always thank the applicant for all the work and effort they do and I know that they also have a timeline for them to be able to use the money for their Grant so um I would say that this
is an application that I feel the HBC would support but turn it over to the applicant for them to thank you make their presentation thank you so much it is really good to be back I think I learned something every time that was a learning experience um but I want to start just by thanking everyone um as I
stepped into my role our board and myself as a leadership at Princeton Nursery School we're really sorry could you just state your name and spell it for the for the record um it's Kola is my first name Kola lyanna Jony it's
Kem i l o l a l e a n n a and then j a h n k e okay and then are you both going to be justifi both so you can both just raise
your right hand okay just he needs to spell uh do yeah let's get his name as well I see uh Joseph Weiss j o s e p we I SS okay and if you can both just raise your right hand do you swear that the testimony you're
about to give this evening is the whole truth to the best of your knowledge I do thank you thank you so much and as our leadership has really just embraced our history uh it this is a part of it so really making sure that we have an understanding of uplifting the historic
preservation in Princeton and so thank you for contributing to our learning um another thank you for the letter of support that allowed us to receive this funding the Community Development block grant is actually a part of the federal funding that is at risk at this point um and so we are very grateful that we did
receive the funding last year and are really hopeful that the funding like this continues um through the federal funds and then I also want to just thank Elizabeth and then Julie for visiting on the very very cold day where we were able to walk through and really just um combine our thoughts and thinking on
this project so I'm going to share a little bit of background as we lead up into getting this project started hopefully next month and then hand it over to Joseph to talk much more specifics uh in that expertise and so in 2018 18 princeon Nursery School we were
actually struggling financially the board at that time and the leadership at that time were really determining could we even stay here in Witherspoon Jackson and so that was something I had shared in a previous meeting here with the commission that our goal was really to
stay but there were two big factors that were preventing the leadership at that time from the certainty of whether we could and the first was the first of reason was the cost of our historic building the facility the maintenance the day-to-day and then the major projects that were on the plate of the
leadership at that time were one of the big factors that helped them to Think Through whether we could think stay there and then the second is about 50% of our families actually live in in Princeton the other 50% come from the surrounding area but of those families
that are non- Princeton residents there are groups of them that are former Princeton residents primarily Withers Jackson Legacy students who used to live on Lee on Birch a and are coming back to Princeton Nursery School those two factors were at that time really helping
the leadership to determine can we stay or can we go uh I'm very very grateful that the the leadership decided to stay but because of covid it was a silver lining for a silver lining for us where we were able to receive funding that
allowed to contribute to our programming allowed to contribute to our day-to-day operations that did start to diminish a little bit in in 2022 and when I joined that year it really was an effort of the leadership um from the board and myself to embrace
our existence in Witherspoon Jackson and not just survive but really push to thrive there um and so we have received funding to take on major projects 200,000 that we've completed we actually will complete these projects at the end of this month so it'll be very exciting
we've completed our roof exterior emergency exits door staircases we installed a security system that in other facilities it's uh it's a given that you have a security system but for us it was really an initiative that we had to put a lot of
funding into and then the launch of a very small school library that I encourage you to come and just take a look at that it has potential to grow uh we received 230,000 partially from the Community Development block grant partial funding from Princeton
University that has committed to support us with the exterior efforts and we received a unique um fund of 80,000 for recognition of leadership at the school from the Princeton Area Community Foundation which total 230,000 that we're going to be able to put towards
this project that has to do with the stucco and the kids actually have a coloring sheet of the school and so they color the school building many different colors but to really revive the yellow stule building that we have there and then all of the what I call exterior carpentry the trim soft moldings and the
casings um since we applied for the funding the costs have actually gone up which we expected it's been over uh almost a year since we have have applied and so there are two um parties that are really uh waiting for the outcome of this meeting Prince University who has
committed to potentially supporting us even more if we are able to um move forward with the project and then um the community block development Grant if they offer it in um 2025 2026 we would be able to apply for that funding as well and then the other party that's
also um pending is the state historic preservation office which is seeking um information about what the commission decides tonight so in total we've raised uh $43,000 for not just for Princeton nursery school but really what we see as
for Withers Jackson to uplift both entities at the same time um we will apply for the community block development block grant again to reimagine our interior spaces very similar to the pre previous um uh presentation so that we can really serve
as a community center not just for Withers Jackson but the larger princing Community as well so our goal as I mention is not just to survive as we were doing in 2018 or to Simply remain but to really Thrive
um I'm a teacher and so I can make do with any situation and nonprofits we do that as well but as the leader at Princeton Nursery school what I've really seen is you cannot have that approach with um historic building it really has to be a proactive solution
and then also long-term Solutions uh where when people ask me about our handyman taking on different projects I say you're looking at her and so we really want to make sure that we have longer um better Solutions than myself and so the repairs that we've actually
taken on in the p in the past year have shown us that larger damage has happened because the delay in the repairs and one example is due to the delay in repairing our roof we uncovered some larger damage that Joseph was able to consult on and
it really led to more funding needs and so what we're seeking right now is to utilize this unique moment where we do have funds to address the um the building concerns and address them in the right way so that is a lesson we learned that we said we only need to
learn once and our applic our application today asked for your approval to allow us to repair our spaces in these long-term Solutions rather than a Band-Aid approach which are a favorite of the kids at the school they love the Band-Aids but we're going to avoid them here and that really meets
our mission of serving students and families while uplifting the rich history of Witherspoon Jackson and princeon nursery school and we kindly ask for your support to reach the school in approving our application for resurfacing our yellow stco building and consider and we ask for your
consideration for approval to fully replace the Sills fascia trim and sophs and kind and to replace the molding and poage those will likely be the last technical words you hear from me and I will pass it over to Joseph Weiss to share
more thank you good evening thank you all um Joseph o um I'm also a neighbor of the nursery school and I want to say that I I really enjoy incredibly being a neighbor of
this Nursery School I sit in my backyard and and just hear the banter of the children playing in the nursery school and it gives me great joy so thank you for what you do um really um I you all have the application packet I believe
I'm happy to answer any questions uh but in general correct me you can't see the screen or is that oh we can see it now oh you can okay great okay it's fixed okay okay so this is the uh North elevation the street
elevation uh there's a lot of Windows in this building there's like 66 windows I believe um and the plan is to first of all resurface the stucco the stucco is uh it's a cement stucco we don't really
know exactly what the substrate is behind this the uh cement stucco but um it's in it's in okay condition but there's a lot of areas where it is extremely distressed cracked uh large gaps so the first step would be to
repair the that surface and then to go around the entire building and resurface with a an acrylic stucco top coating system which consists of a mesh layer it's a nylon type mesh that gets adhered to the existing Surface after that's
cleaned um and then the uh there it gets embedded with a an acrylic stucco mix and then top coated with the Finish coat of which you can choose the Finish we would choose a finish texture that
matches what is there now it's it's um it's not quite a fine texture it's um what's I I don't know the term actually for what what the texture is I can tell you that um in looking at the uh the the
product that we're proposing which is made by uh seea it's it's called a Sahara finish so it's not quite a fine texture it's just a little rougher the total surface added would be about uh um 3 330 seconds to an eigh of an
inch so that's that's one major component of what we're proposing the next is to replace all of the uh rakes the fases and sofits all the way around
the building those are um wood painted wood material they're very distressed in some cases completely rotten due to uh leaks from from water drainage running off the roof on the front of the building uh there's two sections of the
roof on the East Wing here and on The West Wing that have a half round gutter we would be replacing that all other locations as we move around the building this is the East side this has a built-in Gutter and then as you move
around the south of the building um here's a South elevation all these roofs have built-in gutters so we're replacing all the sopit fascia rakes trims the uh the returns
here all with new trim the trim consists of a fascia a sopit and then several pieces of of molding all the all the fascia the and sofits would be uh replaced with a wood product uh it's uh
trade name is Windsor one it's a it's an impregnated Finger Joint it's it's an engineered wood product and it has um a great deal of longevity to it I want to point out that one of the considerations in choosing the materials while we
understand the need to you know Preserve as much as possible the building I feel it's important to be cognizant of the the financial expense related to doing these repairs and so I've really tried to
uh choose or help the nursery school choose materials that they can put up here once and then not have to worry about for at least a decade or more um in the case of this trim material that I'm proposing although it's not you know
it is an engineered wood product it it has like a 30-year warranty on it so the idea here is that they can the school can invest in this Improvement once and then they'll be done for a long time and I think that really helps to you know
make sure that the school can afford to stay there longer so that that's kind of what's guided my my choice of materials um the the uh let me go there's detail so you can see these are the Soph
and fascia details and there's several pieces of of custom moldings there's a shingle mold at where the the uh fascia meets the roof and then there's a cornice mold where the sofit meets the
um uh vertical wall those would be uh you uh custom M poly as material so that they would match exactly the trim that's already there so that that's the second component of the project the next
component are all the windows which um are also rather distressed and as Elizabeth mentioned they have a very small rebate um relative to the stucco surface in some cases it's actually a negative
when I say rebate I mean that the the difference between the face of the the trim going around the window and the face of the adjoining wall and in some cases it's actually a negative rebate and that creates a pro a
water management problem so as Elizabeth mentioned we would be scraping some of the the stucco substrate down to get a better rebate but um in all cases uh bear with me one moment I'll
get to the front elevation uh on the front here about 50% of the windows need to have the the trim replaced and we would be replacing all the trim in kind with this
engineered Windor one material and matching the profiles exactly as to what's there um the Portico here the entry Portico would stay the same uh we're we're not
actually replacing the trim on that it's in very good condition it would just be repainted the same is true of this little um Awning or roof over the basement entry that would be remain no
change to it except Reser repainting it uh there's a a a vent in the Gable here that would be remain and just be repainted but the all the windows uh on the front here you can see there's uh
all the ones that have this hexagonal note I can't quite read the number but but it's 12 thank you um those are ones that I've identified as absolutely need to be replaced and we would be replacing
the sill and the trim going around and then the cap there's a cap at the at the top of the uh the window I actually think this might help this is kind of a detail so you have the trim this is the
cap here and then there's the sill piece so those would be replaced uh again matching the profiles uh some of the windows the wood is in okay condition and could be refinished um I have argued just to be
frank with everyone I I think we would like or I would like to get get the permission to replace all the windows in the north because I think one of the things again going back to the cost of of this doing this project is there's a
lot of overhead associated with just getting scaffolding set up and getting the contractor on site to do the work and although we can repaint some of the windows and that's what we're showing um at least 50% and I'm speaking now the
north elevation the street elevation at least 50% Absol have to be replaced because the the wood is so degraded that it's it's really not would not be a viable substrate in my opinion um but of the ones that
remaining the wood is is okay and it could be scraped and refinished but I do think it would make economic sense um for us to be able to replace those at this time too if if the the commission would allow us to do so um because that
way um the school can be sure that they'll get a much longer life out of that repair as opposed to if they repaint they will be back there in about four to 5 years to repaint again because when you're dealing with a even though
the wood is is is in reasonable condition when you come back and repaint it or uh it's it's not going to last that long in my experience uh because it's really we're not scrap scraping it down to the bare wood we're just doing
uh uh scraping off the loose paint and repainting it and the adhesion is is kind of a problem when you when you deal with that condition that's that's just one one other consideration um as we move around the
East here we are replacing all the trims around the windows um there was a question uh in Elizabeth's uh Miss Kim's report excuse me about uh some additional uh Crown moldings on some of the windows the
typical window in the north elevation just has a square cap and uh that's the top piece of the window um there are about four windows on I think one two three F five windows
that have in addition to that cap a a crown molding at the top and we thought it would make sense to just for create a more unified appearance As you move around the building and eliminate that cornice molding there's only these five and then there's a few
in the back and just do use the the same detail that we're using in the front all the way around the building so that was that was the question about the removal there's a note about specifically to remove the the cornice cap molding
going around to the back we're here again we're going to replace we're proposing to replace all the window trim and Sills and then these are the the flanking walls of the back I'm sorry I
uh I meant to get to the west elevation this is the west elevation thank you um and again we're replacing all of the uh window trims and Sills on the west elevation so I'm happy to answer any
questions I've missed anything thank you um really appreciate your presentation here I'll just go one by one Roger did you have any questions any comments no I think I think it's a great project um I to me the only outstanding
issue is what was just raised whether we would be uh willing to allow replacement of all the windows on the North elevation which makes sense to me I mean I I think it's going to look exactly the same
uh and I think it it just makes more practical sense okay um Freda did you have any comments on that well not really um I my questions were about the uh the windows I don't know if I oh it
is on on can you hear me yeah so my questions were about the windows did I understand you correctly that about 50% of them need to be replaced you said yeah speaking about the north elevation only on the North El only on the North elevation all we were uh we had
discussed this previously with uh both Miss capoli and and Miss Kim and we had been told that the other all the other elevations which are have minimum visibility from the streets Gap yeah we could replace all of the trim there so
the only ones really in my mind that are in question are about 50% of these on the North elevation okay thank you so do what how do you feel about that I think it's a good idea I mean it's expensive people you know yeah that makes sense so you
think it's so the replacement of the north would be good yes okay all right um Charlotte um did you have any questions comments and how do you in on the window replacement I I weigh positively in on that I mean just seems
like now I can you get closer to your mic thanks does that that it says it's on I guess you got to get closer okay um no I it seems like the proper time to
replace all of them um I mean yeah it makes perfect sense and I just I really commend you for for just your commitment to the historic building and to the neighborhood and to taking advantage of
you know all the technical advances to do this sensitively and it just feels like you dotted all the eyes and crossed all the tees so Bravo I hope this moves quickly through construction and you get
to the interior too thank you thank you um David I like the project um I guess my my concern and you guys have already stated it is what on Earth happens with with
funding and you know you get far less money or no money for what your plans are I assume that you probably have to rethink what you want to do and probably have to revisit us but um I'm hopeful that everything goes through smely um
thank you for the very careful evaluation of the building and the approach you're taking thank you thank you for for the funding question concern too because it it has been front of mine for us throughout the whole project so we have scenario a scenario B how do we really
take this on and we're very grateful that the university and others have been receptive to our appeals um but the funding concern is very real for if even our current um funding through the federal funds that were already already distributed we're not able to reimburse
ourselves until it's approved um until the freeze is is unfrozen um and so it's it's definitely a concern but our board and then um we've really shared with others too that we would we'll have a solution um and no one will be happier that the construction is done than the
kids because they have been wearing little plastic construction hats um playing indoors they're going to be excited to go back out how cute all right so um with that uh any other comments
okay thanks Julie yeah I would be remiss if I didn't say a little something about being a native son here in Princeton and how grateful I and the people in the neighborhood yeah could you use the mic late and we can really it's a little hard to hear you is that better yeah
that's better yes uh I just want to I would be remissed as I said if I didn't say something uh being a native son here in Princeton and being born in the neighborhood uh it was a little chilling to hear you say uh a few years ago that the question was whether we were still
going to have the Princeton Nursery School here in Princeton uh the good news is is that through your vision your ability your leadership and your grit your True Grit that you have uh
really really graced the town of Princeton with your presence here your entire family's presence the work that you have have done on behalf of young people at the Princeton Nursery School to keep history alive and not only to keep it alive but to have it growing at the rate it is growing I also want to
acknowledge Joseph opar Weiss who's a neighbor in the Wither spring Jackson neighborhood who is uh helping you in this regard uh hats off to you sir for for what you're doing um but but I also you know want to just end by saying
lyanna you are really something special and while resources abound here in Princeton the reason you are getting so much attention and so much financial help and support is because leadership
is indeed everything so my message to you is thanks for everything thank you so oh that was great Leon all right on that note is there a motion sure I'll move to approve the plan
including the replacement of all the uh North facing Windows okay all right is there a second a second all right fre to seconds um Elizabeth you want to take the role hold then I got to find my sheet
okay here it is um with that motion um I just ask what is the profile of the trim going to be consistent with the other because I know that it was projected a little bit so it'll all be the same correct yes okay and then I assume the drawings will also be updated for final
sign off to reflect that sure yeah I can do that yeah all right um Mr shatkin yes Miss Howard yes Mr Shore yes Miss fredman
chairperson capazo yes thank you so much for coming in and all the best uh I mean we love you guys but we hope we don't have to see you again so you get it done but please do we invite you to come down to to leev to visit us at princeon Nursery School we
just celebrated 96 years and we also celebrated the birthdays of our eldest alumni who turned 95 and 94 years old it was the sweetest birthday parade that we did around with this it will happen again next year oh that's
awesome you very much thank you resolution because this is this right this is us yep stay is here we Final Call all right thanks again all right we're going up with seven Green Street
come on down down the price is right you're gonna recuse okay David is recusing on this one yeah he's he's working with Annabelle hi all right welcome yeah it's chilly all of a sudden
absolutely Frozen yeah so um so welcome this is application of anal redcliff trener uh to replace alter and other building improvements um for historic preservation plan review 7
Green Street um this is just us it's not going to the zoning board nope that's refreshing um like the last one and so um Elizabeth did write a report and um
maybe you want to just summarize that Elizabeth and by the way David Shore is recusing himself on this one I'm just announcing that okay so the applicant Annabelle Radcliffe trener has Fen application
pursuant of the Princeton land use code for improvements of the existing house on the property the property site is identified as block 17.02 Lot 56 on the Princeton tax map with an address of 7 Green Street it's located in the r4b
zone and situated on the north side of Green Street near the intersection of Witherspoon Street the property is in a residential neighborhood in the Witherspoon Jackson historic district as identified in the municipal zoning overlay map um this property also is uh
classified as District type 2 again um preservation plan review is anything that is visible from the public right away and any paint or added adding other surface coloring to a unpainted surface or adding pre-primed and pre-finished
material um within your package you saw a um property inventory from wi preservation for this property um as identified in that inventory it says that the building on
the site was constructed C Circa 1840 and is considered one one of the oldest houses in the Witherspoon Jackson neighborhood um it's it is a small two-story rectangular shaped house with a with a wood-sided gable
roof there is a square concrete block exposed in chimney that sits on the East Ridge the siding is unpainted and they're and with replacement Cedar the house is three Bay with one over one replacement windows over a three-part
picture window and door on the first floor there are no windows on the Gable ends it has a full width two-story rear extension with a shed roof and there are single windows on each floor on the sides of that addition
and the rear elevation and the rear elevation also has a back door the window on the first floor on the East Elevation is a small twin window that's proposed to be replaced with a smaller Square twin window so um the applicant this you know the improvements to this
house are pretty simple the applicant is a new property owner she had received administrative approval for a condenser um because she is living at the property and also doing renovations which is pretty tricky and
uncomfortable and she started this in the wintertime so it was important for her to have some type of heat within there so um we were happy to help her out with that um so the applicant is replacing ing all the windows on the the
street facing property um I believe that they're going to be 6 over six is that correct and uh she had included in her package um she had done a lot of research and people who know Annabelle knows that she is a historic
architect so she always brings a lot of great information and a lot of great research which makes my job a lot easier because then I don't have to do it um but I'm going to defer to Annabelle to really talk about um the uh custom
windows that she's having made for this house and the glass which to me is very interesting um and she's also having the house painted with a special Lin seed oil paint which um I think that I know who that is because somehow he was on
LinkedIn and he was sharing some information but maybe not the same person but any case um she's got some great um and this is unusual for um for a property owner to have so much knowledge um on historic properties and
to want to do it in a way that HPC would um Embrace so anyway um I believe that she's doing a wonderful job and um welcome to the neighborhood thank you oh please go ahead
Annabelle we'll just uh can you state your name and spell it for the record this is Annabelle Radcliffe trena a n n a b e l l e Radcliff r a d c l i f e
hyphen trena t r n n r okay and then if you would raise your right hand do you swear that all the testimony you're about to give this evening is the whole truth to the best of your knowledge yes thank you well thank you for having me I'm very excited to have joined this historic neighborhood and as a
preservation architect who works on preservation projects all day every day including now coming home to my own preservation project which I'm probably going to regret but I love um so um I love this little house and in fact in
the process of purchasing the house um I and the previous owner have set an easement on the house so it's not permitted when it gets sold when I move on to the graveyard that I can see from my window um it will be um preserved nobody's allowed to demolish it um and
we made that decision very deliberately cuz we both wanted to honor her mother who lived there for many years and did really good preservation work there and I to want to preserve the house and keep it for future Generations in its same size and scale so there is an easement I
did attach the easement the initial application so you could see what what that easement is for um so um really um the project is is pretty simple um we have um in the house house um evidence
of the mortis and Tenon framing um including um the windows the two windows that were there that formed um two of the three Bays um there are three Windows above um and there are um two
windows and a door below um historically that's what was there um there was a large viewing window put in which is now compromise the beam there's large um Timber framing in the house which is really quite wonderful um all hand tune beams um all diagonal
um uh bracing on the corners so we've um put a lot of that back um found all kinds of fascinating things that I am in the process of starting a blog on which will be called green on green so um the
um the the proposed um work is to make um um I'm fortunate because I have a lot of connections in the master carpentry field and so I have um um a wonderful firm in um Trenton who are going to make the six over six true divided lights um
from the period uh Janet Foster did extensive research on the Windows whether it should be um a a federal star window um this was very much a vernacular house um it was not um elaborate and we believe that the first
windows on the house were 6 over six although we don't have any evidence of that but from a scale and the sizing of Windows of that period of Circa 1840 um uh we know that the house was there in 1852 from the map the Bon map
so um I think U we're pretty confident from the glass manufacturing size of the period um that these were 6 over six Windows not 4 over4 which was a slightly later Georgian style which came into about 1860 you see that and so I asked a
friend of mine Janet and she produced this wonderful research which I hope you've shared with everybody um she's a dear friend and a very um successful and um prominent um architectural historian on the sites Council um for the state so
she suggested that 6 over six was appropriate I then went into some research on mountains and M profiles and have selected a m profile that's in keeping with the period so the glass that I'm proposing to use is um
something called htog glass and it is um a custom made um insulated historic glass it's a cylinder glass system so it's a poured glass system um we don't make it in this country Pilkington has something but it's had a lot of problems
with it and a lot of um failure with the glass so this is um insulated has quite a good insulation factor which I'm very keen on everything in in the in the house now is electric um with one exception of a gas um furnace so I
wanted to really go to electric go to clean energy sustainable um selection of materials so um the htog glass will have to be imported from England I can't get the glass until I've made the MS so um
and and made the frame so we'll do that first and we'll have a temporary um glass window there until we can do that um the framing needs to be repaired fairly urgently because it has a significant sag in the framing so that's the proposed true dividing light um
windows that are going to be made the um the sash will be slightly thicker but the mtons will hold the the character um because the glass is very slightly thicker than um uh traditional glass and that's one of the appeals for it and that's why it's so popular in Europe um
and is used a lot um the the paint that we're using is a linen seed oil paint um I um believe very strongly in in um changing to linor paints they got a very bad wrap with lead paints with lead White
pigments being used and Lead red pigments being used but now these pigments can be zinc oxide and other pigments so um there's a company in the UK called brunes um they make very high quality Lin doll paints I've given a
number of presentations in fact if you go to the conference um for the the New Jersey preservation conference we're giving a paper with Mel brunes who is a conservative from the UK and he makes these paints um and they're beautifully made they use traditional historic
pigments and all the paint colors that they have in the collection are all based on historic pigments resources um we don't have any research or knowledge of what the window colors were all the windows were replaced with two over two lights that we currently
have so I made the decision to pick a green it's Green Street so it seemed appropriate to go pick a green and it could have been a red um and that will involve the frame GES around the windows which are all Ceda um and the windows themselves and they'll be I think
they're going to be Ceda we're we're having a conversation about that for the windows um but they'll all be painted with the linal paint um and the lovely thing about that is I'll never have to repaint them again because lindsy do paint really lasts forever as anybody's removed lead paint as I have been doing
for a while now inside the house we'll know it's incredibly um resilient and basically it'll just need a linseed you just use lined oil to touch up and that brings back the color so it's a really good way of preserving so i' I'd love to
see more people using linil Paints the problem is you have to be on bwood to do that and I'm very fortunate in that the house was not painted and it's a cedar house I'm not going to paint the clabber at the moment I have no intention to do that just the trim around the windows and the window sash
themselves and there's a few vents that are going in for um a few and and some some lights small path light and then on the back two more lights the existing front door light I've just restored we were able to rewire it and restore
it and we managed to move the electrical to the side which I was thrilled about so the meter is now on the side which was was which was great so I think that that covers pretty much everything well I think this is going to be a a
laboratory of preservation that many professionals will be stopping by to check it out well you're all welcome to come and see it it's it's wonderful little house I'll go again down the line any questions uh Roger any questions
comments no I think it's a good project what's going on on the east side of the building was were there the East Side yes the east side has um a sort of contemporary um um chimney uh which was put on which is sort of now abandoned I've got two small brown low-level vents
for the new high efficiency navian um direct heater that I've got for the hot water radiators and then there was a modern contemporary window on the side that was actually sort of falling apart um and that it's just being shortened slightly
it was about 3' 6 um there's a center structural post so I'm leaving that in place and have shortened the windows to 2T Square each on each side of that post are you changing the Second Story window at all no I'm not on the rear of the building um I'm leaving them I was
hoping to change them all to 6 over 6 but I decided at the moment based on the am of money I spent that I would leave them as the two over two so those will get um repaired um they're going to get re new glazing liny glazing o party and then they'll be painted with linsy o
paint again I I asked because it is uh it's visible from the street so it is yeah it won't be matching the well that's the 1900 Edition so that's the later addition to the house on the rear so that's why it it's appropriate to
leave those windows the only 1840 windows are on the front of the house okay understood I mean I looked around the neighborhood and the windows are all over the place I know they are you have the horizontal two over two yeah two the
the Italians came in I think they just put these windows everywhere you see them everywhere and I I think they were sort of 50s some salesman did very well in Princeton on Windows and AD you do have one small light on the east side too right right
next we do yes it's a very small little path light it's about three foot high okay thanks fra do you have any comments no I don't I think it's a it's a good project it's interesting very interesting project so thank you yeah
doing great um Charlotte anything from you um no only compliments only I can't I mean I really can't wait what a difference that's going to be with those windows um and then you're
and you're leaving the um the wall surface is going to remain natur natural cedar yeah so I'm going to leave it um there was a question Elizabeth asked actually in the letter that she sent me which is about the front door so the historic original front door is still in
place um and I'm keeping that but in front of that prior to me moving in there was a a full glass door so you can actually see the historic door I am going to paint um the green Lin oil paint on that natural finish of that
it's really a storm door but it's really the front door now and I am going to paint that the linor green as well because it's starting to weather and and wood Cedar does very well but this isn't Cedar so I think it would be better to protect it and put linido paint on it
and and do that in green as well right Elizabeth do you have any other questions not as far as uh the review of the application I do have a question about the the window glass that you're using is that thickness just from my own
information is that thickness slightly thicker than you might find with a double pane or oh no it's thinner oh it's thinner is but a little bit thicker than a single yeah pain okay all right well
it really sounds terrific um if there aren't any other comments uh would someone like to make a motion okay Charlotte thank you is there a second Roger okay I guess we'll go to
the vote Mr shatkin yes Miss Howard yes Miss fredman yes chair person capol
yes thank you so much for coming in and best of luck with the project I'm thrilled to be in the neighborhood I'm really very happy to be there so you're all welcome to visit so so don't go everyone yet we
have one concept review I guess Tara if you need to get going I think you don't need me for this one I don't think so thank you this is just a concept you don't need a right we're not going to have a resolution or a memo or anything it's
just a concept review not that I know you're busy not that I don't love being here but I know you got that memo to get out really quickly oh yeah I know I know right oh you'll see him again good how are
I apolog I didn't were it was last get you that memo and everybody have a good night yeah have a good night thank you all right so welcome and thanks for coming in we love concept reviews really I mean they're the
best um so we don't have a report or anything we'll just hand hand it over to you and let us know what you want to do well um thank you madam chair uh Ryan Kennedy from Stevens and Liam here with uh Sandy and Jim and their architect Dan
Ward uh to my right talk about their home uh at 8 Evelyn place um very interestingly to to get to this point and I'll I'll Echo your sentiments um Madam chair that we very much appreciate the opportunity to get some feedback on
the project um from the outset I'll say it's it's quite an interesting both the their home itself being half of a historic structure and I'll say that the from talking with the zoning office our expectation is that um following the comments here we'd come back with an HPC application but what they have planned
is as of right and does not require any variances which did take a lot of of thinking because ultimately as it turns out a half of uh this structure which they own uh is a single family house technically and entitled to have an Adu
with it um as well uh so the the program here that they're looking to talk about um is to connect their existing freestanding garage with the Breezeway uh so they can get to there without the uh being in the elements uh we think that that's not visible at all from the
street but we'll talk through that um adding a small carport to the side uh rather than building a bigger garage or something more obtrusive to allow for their third car to be out of the elements and then staged behind that uh
in Adu um for they unfortunately as you you'll hear they had a bit of an experience of what it's like to uh um have access accessibility uh needs in this property and as it turns out it's really not set up for that and it would
be quite invasive to try to to set it up for those purposes so um uh Jim s you want to just quickly introduce yourselves and uh explain you know your your thinking and need for the the project absolutely maybe I'll start so
James B uh they've got them right I don't know if I need to be sworn in or anything like that not not for concept yeah because it's concept review okay good and and my wife Sandy uh who I guess I I do need to give the credit for the purchase of this home uh about a
decade or so ago um it it was not in very good condition but I think that she showed that it had tremendous potential um we did go through uh historic preservation Commission with with regard to the renovations and uh We've now come to a point where I
happen to have uh an elderly mother who lives in a town home on Long Island multi-story Town Home who is no longer able to get up and down the stairs and we need to find a place for her to uh to live going going forward so we came up
with this notion of constructing this uh Adu on the property and and interestingly at some point didn't want to do this so much I thought maybe we could have my mom move on to the first floor of the existing 8 Evelyn place and
I think Ryan alluded to an unfortunate situation recently I've had uh major back surgery and I've been living on the ground floor and seeing what it's like to live on the ground floor with a small half bath and trying to get around there
and for my expectation is that it would be impossible possible for my mother to live in that in that situation there there's no way to expand the bathroom to make a full bathroom so that that convinced me all the more that we needed to construct this Adu and and I felt
like we had the land as as uh Ryan pointed out we don't need a variance I I I happen to be a lawyer myself so I looked at the ordinance and it seemed to me that this is the perfect type of situation that uh Princeton municipality
would would expect it a an Adu to be constructed so I don't know Sandy if you'd like to add anything to that well the other thing I just would point out is that um my wonderful mother-in-law lives three and a half hours away from us so as she's been getting older and we've been going out to Long Island
Eastport to visit her it's almost uh a hardship on us to have to be in traffic for three and a half hours one way and then three and a half hours traffic coming home and we do have Caregivers for her but the other hardship is that you know when they they have lives these
women and when they can't make it it's like who do we who how can we run out there um so I really want her to be right next to us and it is unfortunate that she can't live in in my house it just is not possible it would be very
uncomfortable for her uh but this gives this Adu would give her her privacy it would give her her own things around her um and it would make the last years of her life I think you know very happy and so that's why we're doing
this okay great thank you um so Jim and and sany just we we'll go through a couple of slides to orient the board a bit um we're looking here uh the arrow points to your house and that uh purple Polkka doted area is the jugtown uh historic
district y yes uh then uh looking next to the neighborhood view you know interestingly often when we do these oblique satellite sits shots the uh you know the lot lines accidentally cut through just like through a camera trick through a house here that actually does
cut through the building so that left side in blue is your existing home uh with the garage that we're talking about that's right and the Adu would go behind that
garage and then uh just briefly so the the right side of the house though your your neighbors that uh you share a party wall with that's actually a a two unit as well that that that that happens to be a legal two family dwelling because they have enough uh Frontage on on
Evelyn place to to have that yes there's two units there all right so um I know you guys know a bit about the history you want to just take the board briefly through um you know some of the information you know about the structure I'm happy to share with it u o
over here look looking at the the house it happened to be the first women's college in New Jersey it was for a brief time of coordinate uh school for Princeton University I I put in the Wikipedia uh link there if you wanted to take a look at at it uh and I it's
interesting to me politically uh Barbara bog Sigman lived there for many years uh and she was the mayor of of Princeton from 1983 to 19 uh 90 and the dining room I I believe is is a place where a lot of decisions were made for the
township uh we as I mentioned earlier we we bought the home in in 2014 did a pretty significant renovation uh to maintain the historical character of the home and uh also updated it for uh modern living and I mentioned that the
the main level uh has this only this half small bath not easy to even get into U that the house there again because of my unfortunate surgery recently I I I've noticed I've had to
climb up and downstairs just to get into the house on on on the the the the the areas that are accessible um which would be very very difficult for my mom so just somewhat surprisingly almost an
acre of land in in downtown Princeton so it it it it struck us that it it it would be almost a waste not to try to take advantage of some of the land there uh I think that the the commission's probably aware because not too long ago
they they they uh approved a much smaller lot for a much larger construction a different situation but I'm just pointing out how land is at such a premium in in in in that area uh our neighbors a matter of fact and then
I I already discussed the the the the need for for my m um uh but now turning to the The View it's interesting when you when you look from the circle I mean you can you can barely see the garage
which can be seen so obviously within the jurisdiction of of of of of uh historic preservation commission but you you can see the garage that was constructed from that point of view it's it's the Breezeway that we're planning to to connect the main residents to the
garage you could not see that from the street uh and and then the the distance that we're looking at there is about 110 ft from the from the uh the street again we we're very mindful of of the
importance of maintaining the the uh Integrity the character of this neighborhood you know I I I I really enjoy living there I happen to be a uh assistant football coach at Princeton High School for the past five years and we we actually made the playoffs this
past year and I'm looking forward to continuing in that role uh as as I continue to stay in this home so it'd be great to have my mom actually come to a game once we complete this Adu so we're looking forward to having uh another winning season you know in the coming
year so the on the right the blue arrow uh that's the proximate location of the connecting Breezeway and then uh I'll just kind of circle here but that behind the uh garage is where the Adu would be correct located and this is we we've asked to
have this additional um carport added to the garage the main reason that you see is is Victor the valvo which is a 1997 valvo GLT wagon that's my sort of Pride and Joy but you can see poor Victor is struggling out there in the
snow not being being subjected to the elements so we were hoping that we could get some sort of uh coverage for Victor by allowing the carport to be connected set back a bit uh uh to the the existing
garage then uh just a couple points that we likely probably already made before we get to the architectural points but um our expectation our plan is to to have the Breezeway connected get them out of the elements but not really be visible from the street um the carport
to get the car essentially partially out of view and tucked back but um out of the elements with a less obtrusive um treatment than a new garage or an expanded garage um and I believe you got some plans um from a sustainability perspective uh U for the
Adu yes so the these are s's plans but I'll run through them really quickly I mean we we're we're very interested in um the solar panels of shingles uh we're not going to have any gas there we we're we're planning on having uh a heat pump it'll be completely uh use of
electricity and uh you know we we we we we're actually hoping that this will be uh a relatively maintenance-free home that um you know can be enjoyed uh comfortably by by mom um uh next we we do have our
architect Dan Ward I know doesn't need to be technically sworn in but uh as you feel free to give the board your uh your credentials I'm sure they they're familiar with them and well yes I I have appeared before this board before um I'm
an architect uh licensed since 1980 believe it or not and I'm licensed in New Jersey Pennsylvania and Bermuda um do a lot of work in and around Princeton Hope well Pennington
areas so um and I'll um keep up on the screen for them the the site plan that we put together but why don't you take them through the the program sure um as Ryan said earlier the the sighting for the proposed Adu is behind the
garage so in that respect it's pretty much well concealed from the public way you'll probably see a bit of the roof peaking above uh the roof of the garage uh the Topography of this site is
that from the from the cold the sack it actually slopes up to the garage and then from the garage towards the back of the lot it slopes down down so we're starting to build this Adu kind of on a lower elevation to start with so that
also helps to conceal it behind the uh the garage uh adjacent to the carport addition to the garage we would be building a the one Mand mandatory uh parking space for the
Adu with a walkway from that space down to the the front door of the Adu uh architecturally um we took our our Clues more from the the garage which was added as part of the renovation uh when the
bestes bought the property um and that garage is kind of a simplified version of the existing house it's less complex in both its architectural form and in its Det detailing so the Ado the Adu
proposed Adu owes more to the garage than it does to the to the old house although the color palet would be the same architectural detailing would be simpler and the basic forms would be more
simple you want to take them through the I know we submitted elevations and uh yeah do you want me to go through the floor plan is are you interested in that probably just the elevation [Applause]
um I don't know how well you can see this but I think you've got copies in your package yeah we have a we have a copy here the top elevation is what you would see if viewed from the front and uh you can see the existing garage with
the two garage doors you can see a bit of the the uh Breezeway connecting to the house and then you can see the the Gable end of the proposed Adu poking up in the back and some of the U the siding and
roof of the Adu the next elevation below that rear elevation or the North elevation on the on your left you can see the back of the existing house the Breezeway connecting to the existing garage and then in this case the
proposed Adu in front of the garage and then the two side elevations are at the back of the sheet um the north elevation on the left side you can see the garage in that case in that view the uh Breezeway is shown
in section and the Adu um with it with a deck off the back off to the right of the garage and then the reciprocal elevation the west elevation on the bottom right hand side corner of your uh
sheet you can see the garage on the right with a carport Edition built off to the side and then the Adu and you can see entrance door between the the entrance door to the Adu between the the
garage and the and the new Ado Adu on the Gable you can see we've we've picked up on the detailing of the existing garage which is like a stucco with um battens painted batons um at an
angle and then below that uh clapboard siding uh with a 4 and 1/2 in exposure which is what is on the existing garage so yeah I um I guess are you guys ready for any comments questions comments sure
okay Roger I can't hear you I'm sorry uh don't have any problems with the Adu it's really fine we've we've actually approved an Adu in drugtown previously maybe the first Adu in town was in Jtown
right um but I'd like to see more detail about the carport and the the Breezeway you know once things move along that would be my concern because that's visible from the street and
uh I think the carport is actually probably more of a challenge than the Breezeway in terms of fitting it in certainly more visible didn't freway I agree with that as the owner of a 2007 I can
sympathize understood that we we we thought that might be some somewhat of a concern and I appreciate your feedback thanks Roger um Frida did you have any comments or suggestions question B I put it on yeah
have to get yeah to get close yeah um my question also was about the carport and and I'm not 100% sure what your restrictions are but I'm looking at this and thinking why not expand the
garage I mean I like I said I don't know what the because it seems awkward to kind of squeeze a carport in there um and then the Breezeway um um like I said I'm not 100% sure what your
restrictions would be but if you're if you are trying to protect yourselves and your mom from the elements why not enclose that I just think um you know when it when it
snows well it's going to have a roof the Breezeway will have a roof we just didn't think it would be attractive to kind of have like this tunnel thing from the garage to the house but you know for the past 10 years we've been suffering from the garage to the house if it's
raining and cold uh I think that the Breezeway will just be 100% better uh you know protecting us from the elements but not making it so you know well I mean I guess yeah I guess you're comparing
today to having something over you know right now there nothing but I'm thinking if I were doing that or designing that I would think about there are ways to make a Breezeway look like part of a house so just my suggestions that's talk to
my as as far as the uh the the uh carport is concerned uh we wanted to do it in as uh an intrusive way as possible we thought you might have a problem with three garage doors in sequence facing
the KAC so that was kind of our attitude towards that we were just trying to keep it minimal I do take the point though just looking at this picture you can see how the carport would be more visible from the street I I
understood all right um Charlotte any uh comments or suggestions could you go to the microphone again yeah the open Breezeway I think well seems adequate to me
but um and the the carport the only thing I wondered was maybe I guess you slop the roof just simply for snow right that we're never going to have it just I mean I I like keeping the
Integrity of the garage as you did and just adding yeah and the carport we're stepping it back from the garage the front wall of the garage and the rear wall wall of the garage to to make that distinction between it so right right that and I I
mean if you could get away with a flat roof I think it would look nicer but if I understand why water you feel yeah no but it's a it's a nice project I yeah
of David I I think this is a really exciting project in that um well that it benefits the senior Mrs besty but um that I think it's going to be a really good example of using the locally
approved several years ago Adu provision on a historic property that eventually that will help owners of historic properties maintain their properties because they're able to use this you know almost full acre of land to have
you know some more income and to sustain things I think it's there's so much going on that sounds like pressure against um individual property owners and what's going to happen on their Lots um that may be much smaller than this this is an exciting good example to see
and um I like the the reference to the existing garage and actually I guess the Gable of the house with the um exposed green boards and you know in its Simplicity and its placement and all those things I think you all done a nice
job and good luck look forward to seeing it come in as a final project yeah I I think I agree I think the Adu itself is like great it's cited beautifully it's harmonious with the rest of the structures and I just think
um the tricky part really is the carport and the Breezeway and I am kind of with Charlotte on maybe looking at a flat roof I don't know maybe simplifying a bit um so I think that's
the trickiest part because that's visible and probably neighbors might weigh in on that but as far as the Adu itself I I don't see um any issue at all like it looks beautiful so
um yeah we hope we you guys come back and um you know it's a beautiful part of town and I think it's a smart smart thing to do especially because you know we I think the master plan even encourages people to do this kind of
thing so it's uh it's like David said it's a great example for other historic um owners yeah one final Point um and I'm not sure how much difference it matters
but um eving College was named after s John Evin and it's actually pronounced Eveland e correct for the people who care I mean I'm not sure it matters that much and I'm not even sure if it's two syllables or three but you know the writer EVN wall same
pronunciation so I'm working on a piece about these pronunciations it drives me nuts that the recording at Van dentor Street says you know you can cross ventor street but I'm in a small minority I think but you
know there's something lost to the history when you lose the pronunciation it's always going to be hon Street in downtown Manhattan because the guy's name was hon uh actually was something Dutcher but more Dutch rather but uh I like to keep
the history my in the back of my mind so yeah we're we're channeling El right now that's exactly that's where I got it from okay Evelyn it is you got it how do you spell
that that's the same spelling all right do you want any other any oh Elizabeth do you have a question or a comment yes oops so I think that my comment is very similar to charlott's which has to do
and Freda and Julie which is the carport um um I guess you have the carport on the left and then you have the Adu parking next to that so you'll have two additional outdoor cars besides your
garage right and um I like the fact that the deck is cited to take advantage of that large maple tree so you get some shade canopy sensus scale um but um did you consider perhaps moving that carport
behind the garage but it's kind of tight if you're trying to get that deck and also retain that tree to before you get into the root system pushed your Adu into the tree I did that yeah unless it was a different shape that's that's that's the concern I have I'm looking at it from
the streetcape um you know that there's like two additional cars in addition to the garage there um if there was some way to perhaps pull it into the back even if it was just one space versus two you know even even maybe flip that deck
on the other side but then you have to flip your whole footprint you know yeah be different um and then as far as that um that Breeze Way um it could be Ed as
some type of landscape trellis or something like that you know if you you could have wanted to that type of thing but that's the concern I have and also um you know according to your elevation that is much higher just because of the peak of it so
I guess strategically you know we just want to see how that looks from the streetcape I mean we have one view but obviously we got to go around that whole culde sec to look at are you talking about this Gable M yes um and I understand it's going to be taller because the other one is a garage which
doesn't need that same height yeah we can probably lower that Gable a bit because if we have a ceiling height in this SP we were I was thinking in term I was hoping that that main space in the in the Adu would be a tall space with windows that
could look up into the tree canopy and um the reality is that if our ceiling height exceeds 12 ft we have to count the area twice put us over the top right so yeah I think and how high were you
thinking it was from the drawing pretty high uh to the to the Apex uh so was it a cathedral ceiling was it open all the way it is that Center section is is a cathedral ceiling okay I wanted it to be higher but then it would be counting
twice so yeah we can lower that a little bit and we can certainly look at a flat roof on the on the cardboard too okay good thank you that's it all right well thank you so much for coming in we hope you guys thank you for your feedback
everybody is doing well hope your mom is doing well and you're doing well hopefully we can move forward and I'm sorry it seems like they turned the heat off in here so yeah it's getting cold I guess they're kicking us
out like thanks very much thank you so much you okay good well yeah no public so no comment um there's there's no public comment no
we're clean um and since it is freezing in here um yeah all right now um we don't have do we have any other reports oh we got to talk about
April who can who can be here on April 14th so I mean I got responses from everyone except for David and Freda so the dates are April 7th and April 14th and I know that Charlotte can't come on
the 14th but she's available on the 7th but I'm away until like the fourth yeah yeah one out of two and then we would not have the meeting on the 21st right so we're trying to help um the Historical Society because they're
kind of in an emergency situation because of their uh wagon Barn on the 14th okay so I can do the 14th you can do the 14th you can do the 14th but then David can do the 14th is elt going to be back he's yeah he's going to
be available on both but Charlotte can't do the 14th she can only do the seventh but if we have El on the 14th we could do the 14th right we'd have a quorum right and so what I've done is I've asked the applicant to make sure their team is available on both those days and
if not let me know you know I mean I I