statement and then we'll be ready to get going. This is a regular meeting of the Princeton Historic Preservation Commission being held in person today, Tuesday, March 24th. They don't they don't help me. It's got old dates up
here. in the main meeting room of the Princeton Municipal Building at 400 Witherspoon Street here in Princeton, New Jersey. Pursuer to section 13 of the open public meetings act. Adequate notice of the time and place of this agenda of this meeting has been noticed by
transmitting a copy of the notice to the Princeton packet town topics the times tronian and by filing a copy with the clerk of Princeton has been posted to the municipal website and posted on the official bulletin board at the municipal complex building
400 Witherspoon Street. Okay. Roll call, please. >> Miss Satderfield is absent. Mr. Shatskin >> here. >> Miss Howard is absent. Miss Capazolei
>> here. >> Miss Freriedman >> here. >> Miss Croll is absent. Miss Kepdova >> here. >> And Chair Sher Uh just a quick announcement. I wanted to keep the commission aware of the
subcommittees we discussed last week. We do have the communications subcommittee working. I met with Craig uh from the municipality and Justin this morning to discuss the HPC newsletter and how we're going to be kind of handling that moving forward and I will be meeting with the
communication subcommittee to discuss that with the outreach. And then also the first application tonight has been carried at the request of the applicant. >> Very good. Am I looking at the town the the municipal website municipal
recording of this meeting on the screen in front of us? This is kind of new. We're it's recording every word we're saying, which is kind of interesting, but I don't know if that's was intended or >> Yes, >> that's a good question. >> It's optional apparently. This is new
from council, so it's up to you guys if you want to keep it. If not, >> it's disable it. >> A moment ago, we had the applicant screen here, and I thinking, oh, are we recording onto their computer? Um, but now, now I'm clear. Does anybody have
any questions on that? Okay, Sarah, if you go ahead, the minutes, >> please. So, we have um minutes from February 24th, the last month meeting uh and they were
distributed ahead of time. Does anybody have any comments or corrections that weren't already phoned in? I saw when I read through that there were a couple of minor corrections uh were made. Does anybody have anything that hasn't been submitted? I gave Ian some other typos, but I had
one I made one change that I wasn't sure of. It's the minutes seemed to indicate that I was going to invite the head of experience Princeton. I wasn't clear I volunteered to do that. I will do that, but >> well, that would be good. If not, we can we
can do it through Sarah or whatever. >> Uh, okay. >> So, we're leaving it where >> leaving it? Um, >> you'll reach out to them. I'll reach out to them. >> Very good. >> And at the same time, we also said reaching out to uh the historical society for the same
or a different day. Probably a different day would be better. >> Different day. >> All right. Thank you. >> All right. Then looks like we're ready to move on to um >> res motion for the minutes. >> Oh, sorry. >> I'll move to approve the February
minutes. as corrected. >> Second. >> Roll call vote. >> Thank you. >> Mr. Shatskin. >> I >> Miss Cavazolei. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Miss Freriedman.
>> Yes. >> Miss Kosvnikova. >> Yes. >> Chair Sher. >> Yes. So, in terms of uh resolutions, I read a email that came out just a little while ago about um having to update the resolution for uh 8 Place and that would
be distributed this evening. Thank you. Thanks, >> Sarah. Will will you or or um Lisa tell us what the um go over what the difference is from what we may have seen. >> Pull it up. I I had a red line version.
I had a redline version, but one second I can tell you exactly what they unless Sarah you're able to it were minor changes. I know the um the third whereas statement was just regarding that the applicant had previously become come before the
commission with a concept review noting that. >> Yeah. So the third whereas clause is new. The num item number two the applicants revised to clarify that
the property is single family threetory and um also that it let's see yeah because originally we had a multi I think it was multi >> I think it was multi family originally. Yeah, multi family, but they clarified that it was single family and that it's
just connected and then on the other side it's a two family. >> So, they wanted to clarify that. Um, let's see. I don't mind. I think there was one other
change and it was in reference to the on number seven that on the the second to last line Nope, that's wrong. >> It was his mother, not his mother-in-law. >> I'm sorry. >> That it was his mother, not his
mother-in-law. >> Moving it. >> Right. I had mother and it's Yeah, mother-in-law. They changed it to mother. And there was one other reference to the the rooftop. I believe that might be in number eight.
second. Sorry about that. Yes. Thank you. Okay. You know what? I don't you mind if I updated? I'm I'm sorry. I
I really Okay, be easy. I'm looking at the wrong So yeah, it was number two where they corrected the the type of property that it's single family versus the multif family. The
other provision I'm having a hard time finding now is it was in reference to correcting the language about the height of the changes. And I just can't like I said I don't have the red line in front of me.
I'm unable to see. Oh, here we go. In number eight, the change is that the Mr. Ward clarified that while the height of the AD will actually be higher than the garage, but they wanted to point out that it would be lower than presented
during the concept review. I apologize. Yeah. So, they wanted to clarif make some clarifications based on what was presented during the the concept review. So, that was it. There were minor changes, nothing substantive. >> Thank you.
>> I apologize for >> Thank you very much. Um, yeah, it's hard to make these um should have had the red line with me. >> I'm going to ask the commission members with what we've just learned about the changes to the resolution, are they still comfortable um voting on it tonight?
Yeah, I'm comfortable. >> That seems to be the consensus. >> So, I move to approve the resolution as changed. >> Thank you. A second. >> Second.
>> Okay. I guess that was Roger first. >> Mr. Shatskin. >> Yes. >> Miss Capazolei. >> Yes. >> Miss Freriedman. >> Yes. >> Miss Kvnikova. Yes. >> Chair Sher. >> Yes.
>> Resolution is passed. So that passes. Thank you. >> Yes. >> All right. The the next one for us to um to approve is the uh application that we heard last time for 425 Basin Street. As I understand that there are no changes
to that resolution. So, if anybody wants to uh bring anything up about it or has a has something they want to suggest. >> You got fast. >> All right, then. Are we ready for um a motion >> battery?
>> All right, I'll move to approve. >> I'll second. >> Maria seconds. Thank you, >> Mr. Shatskin. >> Yes. >> Miss Capazolei. >> Yes. Miss Freriedman, >> yes. >> Miss Kosvnikova, >> yes. >> Chair Sher,
>> yes. >> Resolution is passed. >> Very good. Let's get to the third one. 34 Witherspoon Street. Again, are there any changes or anything anybody noted that they want to bring up at this time? Okay. Then how about a motion to um
approve it? >> So moved. >> Roger. Thank you. >> Second, >> Charlotte. Thank you. Mr. Shatskin, >> yes. >> Miss Capazolei, >> yes. >> Miss Freriedman, >> yes. >> Miss Kosvnikova, >> yes.
>> Chair Sher, >> yes. >> Resolution is passed. >> Thank you. Moving on to applications. The first one on the uh the agenda that was presented previously talks about um an application
for uh by Crown Castle for 18 153 Birch Avenue that is not on no longer on the agenda tonight. Sarah, do you want to give us any reason or is there any anything official we need to know? >> Uh the applicant just requested it be carried to the next available meeting as
they were unable to make it tonight. >> Okay. All right, then. Um, 144 Mercer Street, Lisa, if you want to swear them in or >> Sure. Uh, witnesses. So, swearing your
witnesses. Just >> we'll swear in >> only one right now. >> Okay. Would you raise your right hand? Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> I do. >> Can you please state your full name for the record? >> Mora Mcccleintoch. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> Thank you, Mor. And um she will have her qualified if you if you do qualification. She's a licensed architect in the state of New Jersey and is and has a current license. >> Those qualifications are acceptable to us. Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> So, did you guys want to present first? Does that um >> Sure. That'd be great. >> Thank you. >> Um for the record, my name is Christopher Degreesia from the law firm of Fagory, Drinker, Biddle, and Wreath here on behalf of the applicant trustees of Princeton University. Um we're here
tonight on a preservation plan application. Uh very we're very excited to bring this. It's 144 Mercer Street, which is a very charming home in the Mercer Hill Historic District. Um, it's been vacant over the last couple of
years and the university has put a lot of care in studying it and um, we're here tonight. I think you'll see a very sensitive approach that has a primary goal of preserving the historic fabric and basically just taking care of it. I
would I would look at this application mostly as a maintenance and restoration application that's focused on the historic fabric. And I think overall it not only um will enhance the property but be a very nice um piece in the
Mercer Hill streetscape. So overall we're very excited and um our architect who has sworn has been already sworn in has put together a presentation. I think it's about 17 slides and unless there's any questions I think we can get started
and have her go through. >> Thank you. Uh, we do have hard copies of the presentation. If anyone would like them to take notes while I'm speaking, we can. >> Yeah. >> Do we need to enter that as an exhibit? part of the applic.
>> Yes. >> Um, so thank you for your time tonight. As Christopher said, we're very excited to be here and be moving forward with this project. Um the uh 144 Mercer Street is a contributing element to the
Mercer Hill District. It, as Christopher noted, has been vacant for several years and was suffering from a little bit of benign neglect when the university first acquired it. So, you know, our goals with this rehabilitation project are to
restore it and make it usable into the future so that future owners um can occupy it and, you know, sort of move in and not have to do a lot to get it to where it should be to live in today. Um, this photo on slide one is a picture of
the conditions of the house when it was first acquired by the university. It has since been painted, so you'll notice that some of the other exterior shots look a little different. The shutters were not rehung when the painting was completed.
The next few slides are context. Um, so this house is towards the far end of the Mercer Hill district. It sits um in a row of similarly sized homes, many white, many clabbered buildings. It does
have the unique as um aspect of having a large open space along its west elevation. You can see that you know at below this red box here. Um this is shows showing you where it is
within the historic district. And then this is the earliest Sandborn map which we were able to find the building on. Many of the earlier ones did not extend this far down Mercer Street, but um you can see the building here. It at that
point had different immediate neighbors, but you know, very similar context. a few photos for reference to um demonstrate both the current um compatibility of this house within the
neighborhood and then also to refer back to when thinking about how any proposed changes do continue to carry the vocabulary of the neighborhood forward. >> And that slide just >> slide four, sorry. >> Yes, you are all seeing this on your
screens as I speak, right? They have it on their little screens. Okay, thank you. Um, slide five is showing views of the house from the street. We do recognize that the visibility of the
house varies a little bit seasonally. Um, there is a fair amount of vegetation on the west side of the house along the open um, access easement to the houses to towards the back. The east elevation
is fairly close to the property line and has less visibility. There is a full stockade fence along that elevation as well. Slide six um looks at the kind of what we know about the history of this house.
Um we were fortunate in that the Gunnings um did had looked into this and reported to us anecdotally what they had learned. You know this is a structure that has been changed and modified multiple times over its life. Um, you
know, so from the reporting we received, the oldest portion of the house is actually the center and has a ridge that is um perpendicular to Mercer Street. And that uh they're going they reported
dates back to about 1795. It may have had a porch also facing the west um based on what we can tell from the framing. Um and then the front portion of the house that we see today
when we experienced this house was built around 1811. Another interesting feature of this front portion was that it then subsequently at some point in the 1900s was elevated. Uh you go down into the basement. Um you can see that there are
several courses of CMU on top of the Rubble Stone Foundation and um the prior owners reported that the elevation of Mercer Street had been changed at some point and this was done in response to that. Um and then the lower portion the
1700's portion was clearly left at its um original elevation. So there are there's some eccentricities with the house because you come in and then you have to go back towards you have to go down to the lower portions of the first floor and the second floors do also do
not align. There are also some grading and drainage challenges that we have identified. Uh slide seven is our site plan depicting the proposed scope of work to the site. I'm going to go to the next
slide which is a graphic rendition of this work. It's a little easier to walk you through it. Um so on the left we have the existing conditions and on the right of the image we have the proposed.
And this site work scope is really about maintenance and um kind of cleaning up the site. The existing brick walks are uneven. We will be resetting them using as much material as possible
with there is a lot of overgrown vegetation. The boxwoods that you saw in the first photo are very large in comparison to the house. Uh we'll be taking those out, replacing them in kind. There are large areas of um
pacasandra and ivy as ground cover. Um they are also they have kind of invasive vines in them at this point. So we're reducing that and introducing a little bit more land to make more usable space on the site. Uh all of the fences and
the gates will be removed and replaced in kind as they're decaying a bit. Um, and then on the side of the building where the number five is, there's an existing small concrete patio that currently is at the same elevation as
the house's sill plate, which we will be remove I'm getting going to get into this a little bit more in detail later when we look at the elevations, but we will be removing that and regrading it so that we um are minimizing damage to the house. There is additionally at the
back of the house a very large magnolia that is um it's causing the patio around it is very heaved from its root ball and it its closeness to the house is resulting in vegetative growth on the
roof and decay in the siding. So we are also proposing to remove that um and plant two replacement trees that has been reviewed with the Princeton arborist and you know he agreed about the need for it. We had um previously
discussed and had in our application the removal of an invasive Norway spruce. We after a kind of closer look at this be since it is actually outside of the property line and in the easement area
we are going to withdraw that from our application at this time. Um I mentioned that we're planting the maple trees. So in the back at number nine we're removing this pizza 1980s pizza oven edition. And I'm just going
to flip out of my presentation for a second because David had asked about this. So this is what we're taking down just so you all clear. Um it they added this very large this large chimney mass
which has the pizza oven inside and then there is a angled bay window immediately next to it um with this sort of running brick step. So, it's this chimney and this angled portion is being removed and
we're sort of nothing is being put in its place. We're regularizing the geometry of the building. And then lastly, while this is not visible from the street, we will be reworking um the kind of rear walking path so that
it leads to the driveway. rather than to the easement area. And any replacement of mechanical equipment will be at the all of the existing locations. They're marked by the number 11. Does anyone have any questions on this
slide? Okay, I will continue. So, moving into the improvements on the elevations. Um the next few slides kind of go through these in detail. So as you see the house from the street, the primary viewscape is of the 1811
edition. Um we will are proposing to retain all of the existing siding and trim. Um as well as the cornice and the Yankee gutter. Um the roof will remain as well. There's a few areas of slate
that need to be patched and there the chimney flashing needs to be repaired a bit. So on this main facade, these items go through what we're proposing. The first I just discussed number one. Number two, um there is by the front
door this uh little craftsmanlike light. uh we will be replacing that with a fixture we felt was more keeping in keeping with the p the character of the building. Um and then as I said we'll be patching the slate roof.
If we move to slide 10 here, we're looking at um the proposed work including the replacement of the existing shutters. When they were taken down to um paint the house to keep it from further deteriorating, they they
were really literally just falling apart. Um, we have stored them on the site so that we have the ability to fully measure and document them, but our intent is to replace with custom wood shutters in kind and reuse the wood the
hardware to clean it. Um, the front door again are it has some areas that appear to require Dutchmen and other repairs. Our intent is to pursue that and then if that is found to not be viable due to
the extent of rot, we would replace with a new um custom wood door by true style to match. Um now items six and seven are a little bit of a change um well from the
approach in our application. After consideration um discussion amongst ourselves which was then followed up by the receipt of the memo from the historic preservation officer. We have decided to amend our application that all of the windows
within the 1811 portion of the house that are visible from the public way would be replaced with wood windows. Um, you know, our while our, you know, the investigations we've done have shown that these are not original, we feel
that, you know, the keeping of the consistency of the material is important here. >> For clarity, that's Five windows on the front facade, three on the west facade, and two on the east facade. >> Yes.
>> Uh here are a few more window photos just to kind of illustrate the conditions of the windows. Um one, interestingly enough, on the east facade appears to have originally I'm sorry that says west, it should say east. Um appears to have originally been a door.
But you know our intent we have um there was some asbestous and hazardous materials in the building. So we have removed the finishes and the intent is to do a full frame replacement window which will be installed from the interior allowing us to keep the
exterior trim. Uh slide 13 is demonstrating uh the scope of work regarding the windows in detail. Uh so as we just discussed at the 1811 portion of the house, you know, we'll remove the triple
track, remove the existing nonoriginal windows and install the new wood window from the interior. Um and then at the rear portions of the house, we would be proposing to use the matching aluminum
clad window. Um also similar installation. Um this the full frame replacement does allow for the closest match to the daylight openings that we could achieve. Um the most of the most
of the tolerances except for at the jams are within a quarter of an inch and that is in compliance with the secretary of zero standards where they're really interested in the daylight openings. The mutton sizes are also the same, which is
great. And if you're interested in seeing, we do have a corner sample of the aluminum clad window. The profiles are going to be identical. Um, this manufacturer makes this window in both full wood and aluminum clad with
matching profiles. Um, this replacement will also allow for a leads safe environment for future occupants as well as improving the energy efficiency of the building. We will also be insulating the exterior walls. So, that's, you know, an
important thing for us to take advantage of. And while triple tracks are great at preserving windows, sometimes they are also very difficult to operate and actually let fresh air into your home. slide. So the next two slides are
looking at the sides of the house. Um there is very little uh change proposed on the east elevation. This is mostly a replacement of windows in existing openings. There is towards the rear of the
building an existing through wall air conditioner that we'll be removing and installing new siding. And then at the very rear of the building, we are proposing one new window. So again, the 1811 portion of the building at the
front will have the wood windows and then as we move towards the rear portions, we'll have the matching ex um aluminum clad windows. You will also notice um and I'll get into this a little bit more in detail that we have
we are reinstalling shutters on the 1811 portion of the house but not at the rear. So the west elevation has the most proposed change. Um this is where we are removing the chimney and bay window
element. There was also leading into what was then the kitchen, these very large plate glass sliding doors. Um, and then there was this area with the concrete patio that I was discussing
earlier. Um, so this had sort of two French doors leading out to it. It's in, you know, what we believe was originally a porch at one point. Um and there is extensive rot both um to these doors to
the sill plate and to the lower courses of um siding here. So, we have proposed removing these French doors, replacing them with a ganged window that sort of is based on the size of these existing ones at this little sun porch area and
then installing um siding and flashing to really protect the BU building as well as regrading to allow proper drainage. And then on the second floor, you can see there was one window here, one small double hung and we are
proposing um two hopper windows at these locations. Um this was really we were looking here to this is the primary suite up here and we were looking to make the room a little bit more furnishable to not have a window right
in this wall. Um, and also we're then having windows that meet to current egress requirements. Um, and then at the rear where there was once the bay and the plate glass, we're proposing a new rear entry with a little pent roof shed.
And then these existing windows are just being replaced with the same size. So at the rear, all the new wood siding will be cut wood. true wood siding cut to have the exposure and thickness to match the
existing. So everything's very consistent. We get the same shadow lines and all of the trim um would be fabricated from boral to match existing. We do. We included the proposed floor plans just so they were
sort of an aid to talking about what we were doing with these proposed alterations at the rear. Kind of give you an idea of how we're regularizing the house here where we're taking away the diagonal pizza oven and then what was happening with the primary suite.
You can also see here what I was discussing earlier with the front of the house being at one elevation and then needing to take these three steps down to the rear portion. >> And that is our presentation. We're
welcome to entertain questions or >> Thank you. Um, looking out to the audience, I believe that everyone probably here is associated with this project and therefore has received the staff report and any questions that they
may have had. I was going to ask um what we would normally do if there were members of the public here, be sure to go over the the staff report, but um I I'll ask the commission members if um since we've seen the report and everyone
in the audience has seen the report, do we want uh Sarah to go over it or bring any particular points up still? Um how do you all want to handle that? Oh, let's give Sarah a chance to summarize it, maybe. >> I appreciate that.
>> All right. Thank you, Julie. Um, so I won't I won't bore us all by reading it word for word. Uh but to hit on the more main points that this is in uh the Mercer Hill historic district which is defined as a type two district
subject to preservation plan review for any changes visible from the public right ofway. Uh the majority of the work proposed on the rear late 20 20th century editions is not
wholly visible. So my report did mainly focus on the work being conducted on the 1811 portion of the house which faces Mercer Street. And as the applicant brought up, the building itself, the massing has changed over time and most of the additions,
most of the changes are being conducted on those later additions. And the proposed changes subject to the preservation plan review are by and large in kind repairs or replacements and will not have a effect on the building
setting or to the larger Mercer Hill historic district. The main point that was subject to review based on my assessment were the wood windows uh being replaced with clad windows on the 1811 block which the applicant has now
changed because it constituted a change in material on a architectural feature that was visible from the public right ofway. That being said, uh the proposed project generally as even with the condition of the windows, uh generally retains the
building's historic use, features, spaces, and spatial relationships as well the overall historic character of the property that qualifies it as a contributing resource to the Mercer Hill historic district. and I will go through the recommendations I had before as they
still largely stand. Staff recommends the commission consider the following while conducting their review. Whether the proposed project meets the secretary of the interior standard for the treatment of historic properties. Whether the proposed project is appropriate to and compatible with the existing structures and landscape of the
Mercer Hill historic district. Whether the proposed project would adversely affect the ambiance, character, and appearance of the Mercer Hill historic district. whether the proposed project preserves or enhances the historic or architectural value and character of the structure and whether the proposed
project would adversely affect the ar exterior architectural features and setting of the structure as well as as its historic and architectural character. And recommendation six does not really apply anymore regarding the
change in material to the windows. Thank you. >> I'll I'll start. >> So, this is always going to be Wanda's house, even though the university has it. Every time I drive by, it's like, "Oh, there's Wanda's house." Yeah. So, we um and I think
all these changes are great. They're not really changes. I mean, I don't really see any real changes. I mean, I just see improvements, repair, maintenance, but
it's it's going to look like itself, but better, you know. And I do appreciate the change from uh aluminum clad to wood windows. Um I think that's a very nice gesture. Um,
and as far as what goes on in the back, it just sounds like it's getting cleaned up, you know. So, I have, you know, I'm I'm really glad the university is going to be using it and um, but it's still going to be Wanda's
house. Big shoes to fill. Um I have a couple of comments. So the first comment is that uh for the um outside light fixture, we always want to make sure that the light is not too bright and sort of, you know, a certain
intensity and it's yellow. >> We will usually recommend that the initial lamping be done with a 2700 to 300 Kelvin, which is a warm yellow. Um, obviously we can't control it forever, but that would be what we would have the contractor put in.
>> Understood. Thank you so much. And the second question is about the door. So, I love it that if possible, it will be repaired and if not, I see the um alternative which looks very nice. >> Would you, if you had to replace the door, if you can't repair it, would you
consider um using the original hardware? >> Yes. >> Like the mail slot and everything. That's wonderful. >> Yeah. I mean, the lock still is in decent condition and I think that we could reuse that. >> Great. Thank you. >> I think it's a a great project and I
really appreciate the fact that you've replaced the windows in the front with wood. I mean, that was my only concern. Uh uh it wasn't totally clear to me that the windows there were not original which changes the calculus but
>> in anyway it's it's a very nice gesture. Much appreciated. Um, yeah. I really I I don't know who who is Wanda Wanda served as the head of the planning board for like
I don't know long time. >> Got it. and she was before that head of the burough HBRC um and has written I don't know how many books on Princ Princeton history
architecture >> okay more >> she's famous >> I think this this looks great >> of special note she was one of the only people to whom Elrich deferred >> whenever Uh
Elbert corrected himself. He said, "Whanda wouldn't let me say that. I had to change it." >> Um no, I think this this looks great. And as um as Julie said, that's all anyone ever wants is to look like
themselves but better. >> That's what we always like to say, that if we've done our job really well, you'll never know that we were there as architects. I have one more um quick quick question. >> Um so to the extent that this is going
to be an exhibit, I just wanted to make sure. So on page 13 on page 13, so this is the um windows. >> Yes. >> Uh scope of work. Maybe I'm not understanding this correctly, but you have uh three uh.3 under 18 um 11
portion of the house. So install new wood colby heritage series. >> Okay. So that's a typo and I apologize. Yes, >> I'm just we can correct that. That should say install new Colby Ultra
series double hung aluminum clad windows. >> Is that >> the first number three? >> This the first number three is correct. It says wood. >> The second one. >> The second number three should the word wood should be struck.
>> Yep. Okay. Thank you. Um, I wanted to just make a couple comments. Um, I I'm very happy about the the window change. That was probably what I was bringing in today thinking where could this conversation go and I'm glad that
you guys um came up with that already. Uh, thank you. Um I have a question about removing the boxwoods. It seems to me that as I understand part of the um secretary of interior
standards and as Sarah was reading us um that they contribute to the character of the landscape and the property and I didn't hear anything about them being diseased or >> Oh. So I mean Miles, do you want to talk
about Dynam's comments. So they I mean we had the um university grounds come out and you know their thoughts on them are that they're so when buckwoods get old they get start getting they don't get it they're not as
dense. Um, and these are very like are much older and they're also I mean architecturally my feeling was that they're a little bit oversized in terms of how much they block the house at the moment. Um, and we felt if
we trimmed them back to a lower elevation, they would not look very good because of how they they're sort of spread out when in their growth, you know. So the recommendation there was to replace them in kind. You know, recognizing that plants do age. Yes. But
you are correct that they're not diseased. >> Boxwoods age very very very slowly. >> Very slowly. >> And in some places, you know, mature boxwood would be considered a real asset to the property. >> Um
>> well, no, but there you can see from the very This is three years ago. Windows by >> trim down. It's just not >> No, they they don't trim well.
>> So, but they're being replaced. Do we have a um if we were talking about replacing with trees, there would be a standard of you know so many inches at at four feet. Um is there a standard on what we're talking about on replacing these boxwoods with? >> So if you look at slide sorry I'm going
to have to count through these. On slide seven there is the plant schedule um which does list the size. This is also um in the submitted drawings. This is sheet C 100.
>> I don't see size unless it's a code in here. I don't understand. >> I'm sorry. Okay, let me zoom in. >> I guess it's seven on either side of the door. >> Yeah, seven on each side. 36 inch height.
>> Oh, okay. >> So, yeah. So, they're it's the size is the height, not diameter. >> Following on everyone's uh comments earlier about um Wanda Gunning and also
Dr. Gunning. Um, is there any possibility of the university naming this the Gunning House? >> I I I think naming is a an issue that university looks at very carefully and
has certain committees. So, >> okay, then we'll have we have somebody that can answer. >> Good. >> Do I need to be sworn in? >> Good afternoon. >> Well, let's for the record. Um, for telling the truth. >> I do.
>> Uh my name is Kristen Applegad. I'm assistant vice president for community and regional affairs. Uh the university has a a process. We have a actually a naming committee at the university where naming suggestions can be put forward uh to that group. So if there was a desire,
if perhaps the commission wanted to make that suggestion, you could send that to my attention. I'd be happy to submit it to the um committee on naming. But we actually I'm sorry, Christopher. We we actually have a very formal process um >> that leads to the naming of of structures but we'd be happy to consider
it if that was to be a proposal and proposals can come from external to the university. A quick question. This is really not in our purview, but just out of curiosity. It's going to be fac. It's really hard for me to hear. >> Sorry. It's going to be faculty housing or what what's the purpose of the
>> I will let I will let my colleague Tracy Mansour speak to that. It it'll be faculty >> I can tell. It will be faculty housing. >> Thanks. >> Thank you. >> All right. Then do we have a motion to
approve what we've uh been looking at? I'll move to approve it. >> Second. >> I'll second. Any discussion? >> Okay, >> that's great.
>> So, Mr. Shatskin, >> yes. >> Miss Capazolei, >> yes. >> Miss Freriedman, >> yes. >> Miss Kosvnikova, >> yes. >> Chair Sher, >> yes. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you all. >> Good job. You
>> good job. >> Yay. >> I will I'll send a link to that committee's I'll send a link to the committee's website to uh Sarah >> uh to be shared with the commission. And at the same time, I realize it's the it's kind of outside of what the
university's desire for naming something. It's about the community who have had all the service from them. >> Like many things at the university, we have a process. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right, Sarah, do we have more?
>> A little bit more. Yes. >> Staff report. Do we have to open public comment when there's no public? >> Right. >> The formality at this point. >> Um, seeing no members of the public. >> All right. No members of the public to
make comments. Let's go on to staff report. >> Okay. Um, so I did draft and send out a new historic preservation plan application. Um, I have two copies here if you guys want to pass them around.
>> So they are electronic and fillable. And the idea was just kind of to try and streamline them as much as possible. >> Sarah, my only question on that is and I like it is when a form becomes a official form
>> and then two months from now we say, "Oh, we forgot to ask this or there's another kind of information we want. Can we adapt and change the form?" um as you would as you would see that you thought was necessary as the staff person. So
it's not something that gets locked in. >> No, I don't think so because the the older form was revised over time as needed. >> Consistent with the ordinance and all the requirements. >> Yeah, we're not asking for less or asking for more than >> it's an administrative.
>> Yeah. >> Okay. That was my question on that. Do other members have uh comments about that? I had a minor question about the very top of the form. Is it legally proper to refer to us as
as as the municipality of Princeton's township code? Are we a township anymore or is that is that somehow legally required? >> I think that's how it's written currently in the code, which is a different conversation. It's right now
the the municipality's code is still housed in the old burrow code and the township code. So it's it is correct. >> That's hopefully going to change >> sooner sooner rather than later. >> Just be the Princeton code.
>> Valid point and good catch. Roger. >> Yeah, it's confusing. We are actually a burrow though we don't talk about it very much. >> Right. And it's Yeah, the township portions of the township code are still in effect. So that's how it's referred. >> Yeah.
>> All right. >> Things are >> What do you need, Sarah? Do you need us to actually in some way or just start using it? >> I think it more just thoughts, questions, concerns. Do can I go forth
and be merry with this application? then go forth and be married. >> Okay. Excellent. >> Is it going to be submitted electronically or they just can fill it out electronically? >> They can fill it out electronically. We still need the affidavit completed with an original signature and a not
notorized stamp. So it at some point we have to have a hard copy. But it just from a purely practical standpoint of somebody typing that in and I can understand what someone's email actually is and I can copy and paste it rather than trying to figure
out handwriting sometimes. So I have one question um and that is >> and I don't necessarily know whether this is you know in relation to the application but maybe it is like sometimes when people come in and they have sort of a drawing of what they propose uh or they sort of you know with
what they propose and they have the architectural drawings and so on and so forth. Um, but they don't always kind of have the picture of what the building is going to look like in relation to the streetscape or some kind of rendering.
So, not always. And, you know, when they don't, then I feel like we have to ask for it because even though you have the dimensions, it's still much easier to see something when it's, you know, when you see it in the context of the street. So I don't know whether that's something that's uh should be part of the
application or could be asked to be part of application um not necessarily kind of like as a required required but is preferred that might be nice. I we know I know that we ask for pictures etc. >> Yeah. Yeah. I could maybe make that a
more a little more clear in that section that we do need pictures that show the property and the project in context with the rest of the neighborhood. I could kind of clear that up because that is something we're already running into as you said of I've I don't even get a picture half the time and I was like
what the Google image is from 5 years ago. So yes, I could I could absolutely update that. >> Thank you. Sarah, do you want to talk about Kip Cher's um information about the state historic markers?
>> Yes. So, Kip, who has been working on our state historic markers under the is this the American Battlefield Trust Grant? I believe >> I think it's from the the state of New Jersey. >> Thank you.
um that we were approved by the state historic commission for one marker on Quaker Bridge Road and that I sent that out. I can pass out the copies I have here. Uh, one marker on the way into the
battlefield. Um, and she also sent us draft text of what the marker would say. Um, one question I had, and I'm not enough of a historian of the battle to know, but
I wondered if the any troops had marched by that area. had they marched in. It would be nice to ref if the marker itself is near a pathway that the soldiers took. That would be nice to to reference
somehow. It's not in the language that Kit proposed. There is a marker further down Quaker Road uh that I think dates to the 50s that's left over from a series of markers
uh that indicates that it was a path of of the incoming soldiers, but not clear to me that that particular spot is. And if it were, it would be nice, as I'm repeating myself, nice to reference it.
And just for clarification, it's at that site at the end of Quaker Road where you're turning towards Nassau Park Boulevard. Like that's the location,
right? It's it's believe it's right near the parking area by the canal. Quaker road comes perpendicular to the canal and then makes a if you're going towards Port Boulevard. Yeah, I think you're saying the same thing. Yeah. >> Yeah, I'm saying the same thing.
>> It's called Port Mercer, I think. >> Well, yeah. Well, Port Mercer is the where the lock tender's house was. So across the canal from the parking lot area. >> Yeah. >> Right. Yeah.
Anyway, I saw a reference to Quaker Bridge Road, but that's not Quaker Bridge. That's Quaker Road. >> Yeah, I wondered about that, too. So, what is it that we're being asked to do? >> I to review that. the these were two of
the draft text that Kip herself had drafted. Uh I know that our um space is limited on the marker. >> So Kip asked for our input on >> Okay. >> this text or and any edits.
>> Well, I will say this, but Roger will know better. Um, in one of the versions, in my opinion, the the second one called another version, I think the voice comes across very more readable, >> but that it says that we're still going
to have Will Crackour um, review it. So, the voice could change or be different anyway. So, I don't really know. >> I can tell you what my like opinion is, but I don't know what another set of eyes, another historian's set of eyes will do to this. So, um,
>> Roger, do you have any anything to say? >> Yeah. No, I I much prefer the second version to the first. The the first one seems kind of myopic and >> Yeah, I agree. I think the second one is a lot better.
>> I guess we have to give I again my understanding is far from uh I don't know what broad but uh the fact that we have the Princeton Battle for the State Park kind of takes people's attention away from the fact
that the battle was everywhere in town. >> I mean and uh I mean, somebody coming apart upon this marker should I don't know how to convey it, but it'd be nice if it if there were some way to convey that this was, you
know, an entryway into a large area that was in conflict um throughout throughout the days, two days. One way to kind of communicate that vastness of the area would be if this
marker was repeated in several different locations, >> and I understand the state's only paying for one, but maybe we can find a way to raise >> some money to get it repeated somewhere and that helped people understand that yeah, standing in front of Nassau Hall was still part of it. >> Yeah, but I agree. But it might be
duplicated whatever the Battlefield Society is trying to do already with a visitor center and >> Yeah. So >> we need to know the bigger picture I guess. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So we only asked whether we like the text or not. >> This is the text we think we like.
>> It's limited to a certain number of characters. Correct. >> Yeah. >> Always. >> Yeah. The second one seems much. >> Right. So I I I sort of I again I like Roger's suggestion about sort of you know to the extent that there's quake road I guess like you know whether the
troops moved on the road that might be relevant that I don't know perhaps you know a historian does but this is this could be incorporated here in the second version where it says you know the continental army to Princeton overnight using back roads and here you know to the extent that Quaker road was used you
could you say you know this road that you're standing upon or driving upon or or something to that extent. So you could actually indicate that there but again I don't know how they traveled but I I think there's some room there in in the second version uh
for that to make it more specific. >> Yes. So, if I could bring up something that's not on the agenda, but it's not anything to be voted on, so it's something we can talk about. Um yesterday I stumbled across somebody else's very good kind of
points to think about of the um 250th anniversary and historic preservation and what that means in our communities. And I would like to kind of do some more with that. But uh I think what I should do is write a memo to the or something
that can be distributed to everybody and get some reaction to it and what we might do with it. It's only been like 24 hours since I even thought about this yesterday. So, um I'm pretty excited about it because I think it's I think it's a little bit of the push that
preservation needs again. And I was telling people not long ago that I think I got into all of this on the bicesentennial because it was out there so much that let's see if we can't for the benefit of our community and our history and as far as that goes whatever
direction. Um see if we can't use some of this opportunity to rekindle some of that because it can only help support the work that we do by having the public understand why we do what we do. So, um, Roger's already said he could he
could help me with some things. Um, and I will I'm excited about it. So, we're gonna I I'll get I'll get stuff out to everybody. >> Yeah. I loved your idea, you know, asking the public to uh I don't know about an essay, but, you know, even just
a paragraph. >> Yeah. What preservation means to me, what >> what does it mean to them? Um, >> so, so David, this is going to be something you're going to send around internally first or Okay. Because I I don't know to what range as a commission
we should be sending stuff out how that works in terms of like an open-ended essay to the public. Not that we can't do it. I just don't know the >> There's a lot of things that have to be figured out. They're just >> in terms of like with the communication stuff we're doing with Craig and all of that to make sure we're
all on the same page. Also, so we don't get real weird letters. Um, you never know. >> Yeah. >> But yes, to >> figure out direction that goes in,
>> I have a very picky um copy note. Could you on the second paragraph, could you ask them to delete the the before Americans and the themselves after? Sorry. >> Oh, on on the um
>> on the second one. >> That's the second one. >> First one's very atmospheric. The stiffened marshlands. Does anyone else have anything they'd like to bring up this evening? Would anyone like to um have the record
setting motion time for dismissal or closing the meeting? >> I don't think you've made it. I think it's a little longer than our our quick ones, but pretty good. >> Pretty good.
>> Shy. >> So, is that the start of a motion? >> Yeah. I move to adjourn. >> All right. I don't think anybody's going to counter that, sir. >> I I don't think so. So, adjourned. >> I know, right? I know.