Good evening and welcome. This is a special meeting of the Princeton Planning Board on September 25th, 2025. Pursuant to section 13 of the Open Public Meetings Act, adequate notice of the time and place of this special meeting was given by filing a copy with
the clerk of Princeton on September 9, 2025. Notice of this meeting also has been posted to the mun to the municipal website, princ.gov/calendar. GV/calendar. Notice that all regular and special
meetings of the Princeton Planning Board will be held electronically via Zoom was transmitted to the Princeton packet and the Times and was filed with the clerk of Princeton on Tuesday, January 17, 2023. Please note that this meeting is being
recorded. During hearings on applications for development, members of the public will have an opportunity to comment and ask questions. Public comment is heard by the board after an applicant's representatives have finished their presentations and have been questioned by planning board
members and staff. Those wishing to comment orally should virtually raise your hand when the time comes by clicking on the reactions or raise hand icon at the bottom of your Zoom screen or if participating by phone by pressing
star9. Oral comments will be taken in the order in which hands were raised. We ask with respect that members of the public express your views in three minutes or less. We'll have a countdown clock to help speakers keep track of time. Please
note that speakers who exceed three minutes will be interrupted. Inappropriate public comment containing obscenity, hate speech, or relating to matters not before the board will be muted. Mr. Leco, call the role, please. We'll
do, Madam Chair. Uh, Mr. Bodheimer >> here. >> Miss Capazolei >> here. >> Mr. Cohen >> here. >> Mayor Frereda. >> Mr. McGawan >> here. >> Miss Na.
>> Mr. O'Donnell >> here. >> Miss Pearlmother >> here. >> Mr. Taylor >> here. >> Ms. Wilson Anderson >> here. and Chair Wilson >> here. >> You have a quorum, Madam Chair.
>> Thank you. Um, announcements. What's up, Justin? >> Uh, I have Thank you, Madam Chair, and good evening, members of the board and members of the public. Um, I have a few announcements just related to our department staffing. Um, Nathan Foot started in the newly created position of
assistant director of planning a couple weeks back. Uh, he's here tonight and he's been here uh for the past couple weeks. Uh Nathan is a licensed professional planner and previously worked for a private uh planning and engineering firm in New Jersey. Um he will eventually take over reports to the planning board. So you'll be seeing a
lot of him soon. Um we also were lucky enough earlier this week to have Deedra Battle start in the position of administrative coordinator uh that Carrie previously held until her retirement in July. Um you will obviously be hearing a lot from her via email, phone, and at these meetings in
the near future. Um, that being said, the board schedule is looking pretty light until the end of the year. So, I expect uh and I I hope she'll be appointed board secretary in the new year at reorganization, which will be here before you know it.
>> Well, great. Welcome, Nathan, and welcome uh DeAndrea. It's really great to have you both on board. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. It's nice to be here. >> Um, anything else, Mr. Leco?
Uh, no I do not have anything right now. >> Okay. Um, >> let's see. We have subcommittee reports. We have an upcoming uh landscape subcommittee meeting next week. I don't
think that we've had any um committee meetings since our last meeting, have we? >> Yeah. Mr. >> Chair, there landscape committee Wednesday 9:00 a.m. >> Yep. Wednesday 9:00 a.m. I'm going to finalize it tomorrow with a sunshine
notice and put it on the municipal calendar. Uh the uh landscape committee will discuss a landscape plan for the 469 Euing site um and to follow up on conditions of approval uh for an approved landscape plan um at 900 Herrentown Road.
>> Okay, great. Thanks. >> Uh and one other update, the site plan committee was canceled last month as you know uh and it probably will be cancelled again in October. Okay. Um, applications. We have three applications um, tonight from Princeton
U Public Schools. The first is Princeton Middle School. This is a conditional use authorization at 217 Walnut Lane, block 7302, lot 12. This is file number P2525-683 co.
Justin. Madam Chair, proof publication and service are in order and the board has jurisdiction. >> Thank you so much, Carrie. >> Uh, will you swear in Mr. Leco? >> Yes. Um, Justin, if you could raise your right hand. >> Yes.
>> You swear or affirm that testimony about to give be the truth? >> Yes, I do. >> Why don't we swear in our whole staff? Jim, could you unmute yourself and raise your right hand? Is there anybody else on the staff that we expect to be testifying? Uh Derek >> Derek is here.
>> And so let's >> What about Victor? >> Victor. >> Oh, of course. Yes. >> If you could >> unmute yourself, Victor. Derek. >> Yep. If you could all raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm that testimony you're about to give would be the truth?
>> Yes, I do. >> Just want to affirm if you could just go around and state your foot named. Uh Justin Leco, >> Derek Brick, >> Victor. >> Great. >> Thank you, Madam Chair.
>> Thanks. Um Dan Weissman, Derek Bridger, Jim Purcell, and I wrote a joint memo for each application. So, I'm going to summarize uh that memo here. Um I'm mainly going to cover the board's role tonight and leave the proposals themselves to the schools to present.
Um, and just as operational note, um, like last time, uh, I'm going to refer to the planning board as the board and the Princeton public schools as the schools instead of the board of education, uh, to hopefully make things more clear. Um, you may remember about a
year ago, uh, this month, the schools came to the board for a capital review of the three proposals you'll see tonight. The board provided comments back to the schools at that time which the schools sent to the state department of education prior to a referendum that was approved by the voters on the
projects you'll see tonight. Um and in a way the capital review a year ago was more of a planning exercise and a broad one. Um whereas this conditional use review tonight uh for these three projects is going to be heavy on engineering and and details. Um, and I
say that not to give myself the night off, um, but to foreshadow that you'll be hearing from multiple engineers tonight. Um, and this includes the applicant civil engineers who drew up the plans, um, and the applicant's traffic engineer who had additional recommendations on the sites and, uh, in
the municipal right of way, rights of way around them. Um then on the municipal side, you'll hear from Jim Purcell uh who's reassuming uh the land use engineer position for now that he he held three years ago, four years ago. Um
as well as our traffic engineer, Victor Anastke, who wrote uh reports for uh for each of the sites or one report covering each of the sites, I should say. Um, and additionally, reference will be made to a memo Deanna Stockton wrote in her capacity as municipal engineer uh
regarding the the proposals or the parts of the proposals that are in the public right ofway. Um, and Jim will get into that, but I know she spoke with our traffic safety committee as well as our police department to come to a conclusion of what the municipality will implement um where it's on our land
essentially. Um the reason the schools are back before the board is not just because they listened to the board's comments and made many of the changes recommended last year. Um but also our municipal ordinance requires conditional use approval for schools in the residential zones that these three are
in. Uh the schools uh by state law are exempt from formal site plan review including stormwater regulations. uh though they obviously need to include site plans of what they are proposing to do in order to prove that they meet the
conditional use standards of our ordinance in section T10B 321. Uh that section refers to principles the board shall consider on conditional use applications which I'll read in full in a second. Um and this is going to be a little long so so bear with me for a
second. Uh, quote, "In making its decision on an application for approval of a conditional use, the planning board shall take no action which will substantially impair the intent or purpose of this article. The board may attach such terms and conditions to an approval of such application as in its
judgment will preserve such public good or such intent or purpose and shall be guided by the following principles. A the local need for the proposed facilities and whether or not the same is adequately served by existing facilities within feasible distance of
the area to be served. B the existence of nuisance factors and whether or not adequate shielding by way of landscaping or distance from the nearest property line is provided to minimize any such factors. C. The effect of the amount of traffic which the proposed use may
reasonably generate upon existing streets. the safety of nearby uses such as schools or other places of congregation or public service, the peace and quiet of nearby property, and the use of public right ofway for parking service or any other purpose." End quote. For a school use
specifically, our ordinance also requires that the site conforms to the standards set forth in section 300 of the state board of education's 1969 guide for schoolhouse planning and construction. Uh that section was included as an appendix in our memo
packets. Um three things to keep in mind are that uh the section 300 of the guide for schoolhouse planning and construction is titled selecting a desirable school site and obviously schools have been on these sites for some time. Um the proposals are more of
infill ones on existing school sites rather than selecting new sites. Um, next, that section really speaks in generalities rather than objective measures uh, regarding locations and and things like that that you would consider for those sites. And finally, the
document was adopted in the same year as the last time the New York Jets won a Super Bowl with Joe Nameoth. Um, so it has been some time uh since we've gotten a new document. Um, in addition to addressing the conditional use principles and the standards of that
1969 document, uh, we also have some comments in our report, uh, or our three memos regarding exterior lighting, traffic, uh, Princeton Environmental Commission recommendations and a few other things that we could come back to, uh, after each presentation if they're
not covered by the schools. Uh, and one last thing I want to note, um, even though the school's stormwater management review is under the jurisdiction of the state schools development authority, um, we did have our stormwater management consultant review the applications, uh, and provide
recommendations that we hope the schools will consider. Um, Jim, Jim, is there anything that you'd like to add at this time? >> No, you took all my thunder away. I think you got you covered everything. >> Excellent. Great. Uh, so Madam Chair, I would hand it back to you um at this
time and you're you're on mute. >> I didn't want to cough over you. Um, I saw that Mr. Anoske um activated his camera. Do you have anything, Victor, to add before we get started?
I I'm not trying to prompt you to say something. I just want to make sure there's nothing pressing you want to bring to our attention before we hear from the applicant. >> No, I I was just adjusting my camera. That's all. >> Okay, great. >> Thank you.
>> Um Okay, so on behalf of the schools, we have Who is uh quarterbacking? >> I think I'm introducing the quarterback. Um >> Okay. and hopefully he'll he'll be Joe Nameoththlike this evening. Um my name
is Mike Lasusa. I am the newish superintendent of the Princeton public schools. Uh and I just would like to begin first of all by thanking all of the members of the planning board. Madam Chair, and and everyone, we know that this is a special meeting. Um we appreciate your time. Uh we know that
you're on >> Yeah, I'm I'm gonna have to swear you and the witnesses in No, that's fine. So, if you and your other witnesses could raise your right hand, do you do you swear or affirm that testimony you're about to give will be the truth? >> I do. I do.
>> So, sworn affirm. If you can go around, state your full name, spell your last name. >> Sure. Michael Lasusa. Lusa. >> And Mr. Lassusa, since you're the MC, um you can call on your uh on your
witnesses uh one at a time. so there's less chaos. >> Okay, I'll do my best. So, I'll begin with um Mr. Brandon Croker. He is the land use attorney for the board of education. >> Yes. Good evening.
>> Okay. I'm not going to swear Mr. Croker right now because >> No, I can al I can introduce the rest of the team as well. We have um Andrew Harris who's the board's the school's business administrator. I will try to honor the uh the distinction that that Mr. Leco offered in terms of uh to try
to make the the uh references easier. Um Sir Andrew Harris is the business administrator. We have um George Duthy uh who is board's architect as well as Daniel uh Chatoni um also of FVHD
architects on behalf of the schools. uh Beth Kenderdine of Edwards Engineering Group uh also on behalf of the schools and Patrick Downey uh of Dynamic Traffic uh also on behalf of the schools. Um just as a matter of
housekeeping, I I don't know, Jerry, did you want to um I know you're going to swear people in. Did you need me to qualify experts or um I think I >> I'll swear them in as a group and then as they testify, you you you should qualify them. >> Okay. Sure.
Okay. So, if you could go around and and give your Have you already done that? Given your full name and spelled your last name. >> Yeah, we typically uh each individual introduces themselves and spells their last name. In this case, uh Mr. Croker introduced each person. So, and I didn't
want to interrupt the flow of that. Um >> my apologies. I I jumped No, that's all right. I asked everybody to go around and and uh state their name and spell it for the record. Uh, so maybe we'll >> All right. Thank you. >> Go back to Dr. Lassusa. And >> well, he already did.
>> He already did. Okay. Then we'll move on to uh Mr. Harris. >> Andrew Harris, H A R I S. And as Brandon said, business administrator with the school district. >> Okay. So, I'm uh George Duthy. I'm a
principal with FPD Architects. Uh, that is spelled uh, Duthy D U T H I E with FVHD architects in Yuing, New Jersey. >> I'll follow George. I'm I'm Dan Scatoni, S C H I T O N E. I'm a senior associate
with FD Architects. Um Beth Kenderdine, that's keen der I ne with Edwards Engineering Group. We are the civil site engineers. >> Uh good evening everybody. Patrick
Downey D wy with dynamic traffic. Uh we're the traffic engineers for the schools. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you, >> Mr. Cracker, if you want to
lead the show or however you want to do this or Mr. Lusa. >> Sure. Sure. Absolutely. Um, just so a matter of housekeeping, did um did you want us to address them in um I know some of the review comments kind of addressed all three sites just in the order they're on the agenda or just in
terms of h what makes the most sense or what? Yeah, what we want to do right now is start with um presenting everything for the middle school. Um we'll go through all of that testimony. We'll um talk through uh the resolution and vote
on that and then we will move on to Littlebrook Elementary, go through that process. Uh I didn't I I omitted from my description of the process for the middle school public comment. We'll hear public comment on each, but they're we're looking at them
as three separate applications. Middle school, then Littlebrook, and finally Community Park. >> Okay. All right. Fair enough. Um, so just preliminarily, uh, I think, uh, your planner did an excellent job of of just giving an overview and and
introducing the applications. I had some um some preliminary comments, but I think he too stole my thunder and so I won't re reiterate uh all those comments, but I guess just to um add a couple things just just to make clear,
we're here um as your as Mr. Leco explained because of the the conditional use ordinances that um the municipality has. And just to be clear, these are we're here for and we'll address them separately, but where there's three separate sites that are already
operating, they already have uh you know, school facilities on them. We the scope of what we're here for is really the uh additions and the the you know expansions of the existing facilities and the existing educational uses. Just
we're just in other words, the new stuff. We're not here seeking, you know, conditional use approval for the entirety of sites. They've already been approved and are and are operating. Um, and just to reiterate, I I think he made it clear, but just in your ordinance, the the
um the considerations that that are specified for the for the board's uh you know, consideration are uh those three that he named the local need uh which I think um you know, we've explained in
the in the referendum that our existing facilities are are are insufficient and you know, that's why we're here. And then the nuisance factors which you hear from the experts about and also traffic which uh you'll hear from the experts especially Mr. Downey. So we think we
can meet those um you know those standards and that's why we're here. But I would say you know we we've we're here about a year ago and and we have you know appreciated the feedback at that time. We've at that time we committed to work collaboratively with um the board
during the design phase and I think we've done that and the reason we're here separately is as we explained last time there were uh we we essentially bifurcated the applications for cost considerations cuz we didn't want to go through this whole process if the referendum was not going to pass. So so
we set this aside and and committed to coming back at a later date um you know if and when the referendum passed. Thankfully, we're here that that it did pass and now we're back before you um to to seek that approval on this second piece of the puzzle. So, um I think
otherwise uh you know, Mr. Leco kind of went over everything. Um I will just add and I think it'll be clear when the when the experts testify, but we you know, we have incorporated or tried to, you know, where possible or address all your
experts comments and you know continue. We thank everybody for the feedback and you know we have really tried to to work cooperatively. So um I guess in terms of addressing the middle school just for so the per for
purposes of the record that is uh 217 Walnut Lane. It's block 7302 lot 12 and it's in the R8 zone. And again that that your ordinances specify that you know that that public schools
are conditional conditionally approved in residential zones um upon uh compliance with that 1969 document which could possibly be outdated and and been superseded by you know more relevant authority. But in any event we think a
lot of the the considerations are addressed in the plans as well as the other principles we previously discussed. Um, >> well, that's a great segue for looking at the plans. >> So, I don't mean to I don't mean to um foreclose anything you were >> absolutely
>> that was important to say, but um maybe we can >> move it along. start. Yeah. Uh taking a look at the plan and go through the um uh the issues that were flagged in the
and the invitation to to discuss one thing and another that were in the staff memos. >> Sure. If it if it's okay with the board, my thought would be to um ask Mr. Duthy uh to to give just a brief overview of the projects. Then >> right
>> over to to Miss Kender Dine to to go through the more detailed engineering plans that she worked so hard on and then um have Mr. Downey address the you some of the traffic uh comments from from your engineer. Um but if if the board would prefer, you know, a
different a different order, you know, manner of handling things, I'm happy to do so. No, >> that that sounds just fine. Thank you. >> All right. Um, so I'll ask Mr. Dy. Um, could you just in terms of the the middle school um project?
>> Well, first we need to qualify. Is that am I right here Mr. >> Barry >> Muller? We need to qualify. Mr. Judy, um, if you could just talk a little bit about your um, education and other qualifications. >> Sure. So, I'm a licensed architect in
the state of New Jersey. I've been licensed for more than 40 years. During that period of time, I've worked exclusively, almost exclusively, on the design of public schools throughout the state of New Jersey. I went to school at the New Jersey Institute of Technology, graduated with a bachelor of architecture degree. I won't tell you
when. And um so I I have been a licensed architect, as I said, for 40 years and employed by the same firm, by the way, and and I'm now happy to say I'm a principal of that firm, have been for uh more than 15 years. also uh working with the Princeton Board of Education on an
exciting referendum project um and uh a lot of collaboration back and forth including with the planning staff of Princeton. Much appreciated. I'm also a licensed professional planner in the state of New Jersey. Not quite as long as 40 years, but I've been doing that as well in and really in conjunction with
the work that I do for my firm. So, uh you know, >> thank you. We accept your qualifications. >> Okay. Uh, I could I could segue. The description of the project that's contained in Mr. Leco's memo is is good. And I and I really don't have much to
add to the middle school other than to say that our goal in the design was to create, you know, compact additions that would have minimal footprints challenges of those sites. You know, all of the sites particularly in middle school very challenging site. So in managing the storm water, managing the traffic and
all the other issues, obviously proximity to residences, residences nearby. So we, you know, I hope in our testimony from our experts from Beth and and also from Patrick, you'll see that we did first of all take, you know, into consideration and tried to address as
many things as we could in consideration of the constraints that we have to work under. And so I think I'll just turn it over to Beth now and ask her to just kind of tell you about the process. and I know she's familiar with those comments and I can certainly add or testify when needed. Thank you.
>> Okay. Um and we'll we'll qualify you as well. Um Ms. or Dr. Kenderdine. I'm not sure. >> I like I'm wondering whether is somebody gonna be able to share a screen and show
um as you describe. Okay, great. Yes. >> I'll step back and let you talk about your qualifications. >> I've only been licensed for 20 years. So, George has me way beat. Um, I graduated in 1998. I got my PE
professional engineering license in 2005. Uh, like George, I do a lot of work on public school projects. I've testified before planning boards all over New Jersey. Uh, worked in a lot of school districts across New Jersey. Um,
if there's any questions, I'm willing to to answer them. >> And you're licensed in the state of New Jersey, I assume. I just want >> Yes. >> Got it. >> Or I should have specified that. Yes. >> We accept your qualifications. Thank you. >> Thank you. Okay. So, I am going to
share my screen of Princeton Middle School. Here we go. Can everybody Oh, wh Can everybody see that? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. Excellent. This is um the cover
sheet of the planet that we put together for Princeton Middle School. It is the so it's it's really it's the overview of the whole site. Um so it's probably the easiest one in which to describe uh the improvements that we're proposing. So,
on the front of Princeton Middle School, there's a large building addition. Uh, we're creating a small courtyard here. Um, and then we're proposing there's a there's a covered walkway along the front to the new entrance of the
building. Um, walkways along the the front to access the building um at all doors. All of those will be code compliant um and ADA accessible. Then
>> just for reference, the the street to the left is Walnut. Is that correct? >> Yes. Wouldn't it be handy if my plans? But yes, >> that's all right. I just want to make sure everybody's oriented. Okay. >> Yes. I apologize for that. Um
>> so yes, this is walnut on this side. Um across the top is I'm sorry I don't remember. Hold on one second. >> Thank you. >> Thank you all of you all who are much more familiar with the streets of Princeton.
Okay. Um so like I said, we're proposing this building addition with a covered walkway. It's we're essentially replacing that that front entrance of the middle school. So, we're trying to recreate that same um entrance feel to the new building addition. Um there'll
be some new new walkways, um some new stairs just to navigate the the elevation change. Um that's at the front of the building. At the rear of the building, we're proposing a new addition in the back. Um again, the the site
improvements are pretty much just to accommodate the new addition. So, we're reconfiguring the walkways around the addition. We're reconfiguring the dumpster enclosure. Um reconfiguring some of the parking areas around the
building addition just just to um just to accommodate the addition. So, the primary purpose of our site work for Princeton Middle School is really just to accommodate the new building additions. um the the rear of the site actually we
are not proposing any new imperous coverage. So we we are not proposing any storm new storm water management for the back of the school. We're going to use the existing detention basin that's in the back of the school. Uh for the front
edition, we are proposing a new bio retention basin in pretty much the only area left of open open lawn that we can use in the front of the building. So this, like I said, is the kind of the
overall picture. Um and now I'm going to go to some of the the larger scale drawing so you can see some of the detail. Um, I'm going to skip over the existing conditions plans unless anybody has any
questions on those and just go into kind of the the site plans that we put together showing the more detailed layout. So, this is a site plan showing the front building
edition, the one facing Walnut. Um, as you can see, there's the covered walkway along the front. There's the new sidewalk connecting to the existing sidewalk. There's, um, new sidewalks and some retaining walls and stairs just to
navigate the elevation change to the new doors to the building. Um, we are proposing a new concrete area for additional bike racks along the frontage of the school. Um, and otherwise pretty much the only
big change is going to be the bio retention basin in the front. Um, this is you can see the rear edition for Princeton Middle School. Um, again, if we're just putting in some new
sidewalks, some new stairs, um, some retaining walls to navigate elevation changes and make these new doors work. We're reconfiguring the rear parking just to accommodate the the addition
that's here. Um we're proposing a new emergency generator next to the existing building and there um and a new like a cold box, an exterior refrigerator
um back that can be accessed from the the service area in the rear of the site. Um, I think what I'll do is skip to the grading plan so you can kind of get an
idea of where the bio retention basin is going to go. So, um, this front area, front lawn area of Princeton Middle School is occupied by a large underground detention system that was
put in during a the previous um, a previous uh, building program on the site. Um, so really the only open area we have to use for green infrastructure, storm water management is this lawn area adjacent to the
underground detention system. So, this basin is designed to store and treat runoff from all of the new imperous coverage that we're proposing for this addition in the sidewalks.
Um, I think that's pretty much a general overview. If you'd like, I can go through the comments that were on the um on the the planning memo. Does that make sense?
>> Sure. Yes. Thank you. >> So, I am on page four of five from the planning memo dated September 19th, 2025. Um
and the first comment is regarding the emergency generator and the cold box which I mentioned are proposed adjacent to the service area in the rear of the site. Um, I get that the the um
the comment essentially asks whether we have um uh considered alternative locations and um I can state for a fact that we have because I sat in on a meeting discussing the location of these um the the emergency generator and the
cold box. Um and unfortunately the constraints of the site are such that um there's we couldn't there was really no other um practical location for the emergency generator. We recognized that
um the the noise of the emergency generator would affect neighbors. So, as far as I know, we did have um decibel calculations performed for that and decided to put it closer to the existing school building rather than on the other
side of the of the parking lot where it would affect neighbors. So, we we have considered the impact to neighbors. Um it should be considered I think that it only gets run maybe once a week for 20 minutes. I think George can can speak
more um intelligently on that. um and otherwise it would only be running if there was an emergency need for it. So um we have given consideration to the neighbors as far as um the um the emergency generator and the and the cold
box are concerned. Um and we certainly can um install landscaping or some other kind of buffer around the cold box if if desired. Um for comment number two regarding
additional exterior lighting um there is no plan at this point to um install any site lighting any additional sight lighting in the rear of the school. We anticipate that there will be some lighting um on the school building that
will provide illumination of the rear parking stalls. Um but that will be directed towards the parking stalls. And of course we will take into consideration um house shielding and any other um uh design considerations to
minimize that the impact to the neighbors. So, um, like I said, it will probably just be some some exterior lighting of the building for emergency purposes. Uh, we don't anticipate any new site lighting for this rear parking
lot. Um, comment number three, I am going to defer to Patrick Downey once I'm finished with my testimony because that is regarding the traffic recommendations. Um,
comment number four regarding stormwater management. This is actually um sort of a generalized comment for all three of these sites. Um, we are subject to the New Jersey Stormwater Management Rules. So, we we have to by law follow all of
the requirements of the New Jersey Storm Water Management Rules. And we're also subject to the DNR Canal Commission which actually has some stricter requirements than the New Jersey stormwater management rules. So the stormwater management systems for all
three of the sites will provide peak reductions, water quality, groundwater recharge and green infrastructure um in the form of bio retention for all three sites. Um
then um question number five is regarding the um green development checklist. Um and pvious pavement, the green roofs and renewable energy techniques, dark sky compliant lighting,
EV chargers, additional bike racks, and traffic demand. Um like I said, I'm going to defer to um Patrick Downey regarding the traffic. Um, EV chargers. We We are not proposing any EV chargers at this point. Um, I don't think there's
really enough parking that we could designate EV chargers, but it's certainly something that the that the schools can can consider if they want to put that in in the future. Um, the dark sky compliant lighting, like I said, we're only
proposing um basic lighting on the building. We're not proposing any site lighting. So um uh there shouldn't be any issues with light pollution. Um as far as pvious pavement is concerned, um
I have a tendency to avoid pvious pavement as much as I possibly can, especially for um any kind of turning movements or um uh steady use of pavement because it has a tendency to
disintegrate under under heavy usage. Um so I have a tendency to gear towards other green infrastructure um options like bio retention um because my experience with pvious pavement in any kind of school situation
where the pavement is used on a frequent basis is that it has a tendency to uh ravel. It turns into a a gravel parking lot. So, I I I use it sparingly. Um, and I haven't proposed any of that on any of
these school sites because um I just don't think it's practical. So, um I think with that I will open myself up to questions from the board. >> M I'm sorry,
>> Mr. Muller. Did you have >> I was just one of the clarification. Uh when you were talking about uh putting a buffer, installing a buffer, was that around the coal box? >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yes. Yes. If that's um Yes. If they put
the coal box in, we can we can put some kind of a buffer around it to mitate um uh any any noise from the from the machinery. >> So it this would not be a vegetated um buffer then. It would be some kind of structural.
>> Oh, no. I was envisioning some kind of vegetative buffer. >> All right. Thank you. >> Well, plants offer even evergreens very very limited if any um soundproofing or at least so I've heard
from um sound sound experts. Um, but it might it certainly might be worth putting uh, you know, depending on how big and bulky and tall that um, equipment is, it might be worth putting
in it for a screen. And I am wondering whether you know if it's, you know, something that runs 247 like I mean I assume it is because it's a great big refrigerator, right? So, have you looked at the decibel level of um just the
ongoing running of that cold box? >> George, do you know if that that's been studied? You're muted. >> Yeah, I know. Um I I'll also say Beth doesn't know this. On the architecture side, we are going to have an enclosure
around the walk-in box. It'll be a a masonry enclosure, so there's going to be definitely some sound absorption there and probably a little bit of reflection as well. And we're But the current plan um is to bring the walls of that enclosure up so it goes extends above extends above the condensing unit
that sits on top of the unit. So that should greatly mitigate the noise. Uh I don't know off the top of my head the decibel levels uh of that. That's information we can certainly find out. But I do think between the the the landscape screening and the wall that we're going to construct on three sides
now. The the the side that faces a school we have to keep open obviously for access. But the three other sides we are going to enclose with a with a masonry architectural CMU or other type of material heavy heavy masonry material. >> Um thank you Mr. Cohen.
And >> yeah, I just wanted to ask I mean I know we're not really here to talk about storm water but since you mentioned the uh pvious pavement I'm how do you feel about previous pavement for walking surfaces because
you have quite a bit of new impervious coverage towards the front entry and um I I assume um it doesn't have the same drawbacks as as you were referring to
for a traffic surface. So just talk a little bit about why or why not you would consider it for the walking surfaces. >> Well, I mean typically pvious pavement is it's not meant as a means to um limit
runoff. It's meant as a way to treat water quality. Um I don't need to treat water quality on walking surfaces. So, um, pvious pavement also typically needs, um, a large stone section below
it to get you beneath the frost line. Um, so it's just overkill, honestly, for a for a walking path. It doesn't um it it I would have to put a large section of stone underneath. I would have to probably under drain it because there's
no infiltration in the soils. Um, so it's just it's a large amount of money to for a for a walking path in my opinion. It's just not economical. >> Okay. I mean, I'm assuming your bio retention meets the need. So, it's sort
of a mood point. >> Yeah. The it's a small scale bio retention basin. They're all that's on all three sites. They'll be landscaped. They'll look like a rain garden. Um it's designed to provide the water quality treatment that pvious pavement would provide. >> Um I would suggest with all of these um
bio retention basins um to look really carefully at the planting um plan for those basins. Um it's really important that those plants be on the list that D
provides in the um BMP manual. Um and often um you know firms that you know frankly know more about engineering than landscape architecture or you know bio
bio retention design um spec just the wrong plants. Um and so those can you know these basins can be just fantastic teaching tools and absolutely beautiful features or they
can be something else and it would it's just it'll be really important at our schools to have good and I know the schools have got very active >> you know student and parent organizations that that would be a terrific resource for helping making it
great. >> Yeah. We actually have a landscape architect, >> right, >> working on our staff that put together the the planting plan. >> And if and if I may add, we there was a similar project done at the high school using native plantings in the basin as
located there. And so, you know, it is our intention to work with the mun municipality the landscape architect. We have sustainable Princeton involved in our projects as well. Terrific. >> And and deal with have those native plantings uh that we've been discussing. We've kind of started that conversation
that that's something we have to finish up, but we'll definitely do that. Thank you. >> That's great. Thank you so much. Um, Mr. O'Donnell, >> thank you, Madam Chair. Uh, the screening for the generator, will that also be masonry or will that be another
material? >> I'm sorry, Mr. Duthy, you're >> I I have it. Sorry, my screen is blocked. Um, yes, there's going to be I don't we haven't decided yet. We're either going to do a masonry enclosure around the generator or we're going to
do a uh like an acoustical fence type of sound enclosure like we sometimes put around chillers. U but there'll be something like that around the generator. Uh also, >> no, the the the cold box is what you're saying. >> No, no, the generator. Around the generator. >> Around the generator. Okay.
>> Yeah, we'll fence it in. Sure. Um, and we also have sound curves. I don't know if I have those with me for the decibel readings. As we get further and further away from the generator, the noise drops off considerably well within the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection residential noise standards.
Uh, which we are complying with, although technically generators are exempt. So, uh, you know, we we expect for the amount of time it's going to be running for an hour a week. uh on exercise. The only other time you would hear it is when there's an actual power failure,
>> right? >> Yeah. And I I mean, it probably isn't even an hour a week. Hopefully, it's >> probably not >> like 15 or 20 minutes, but I mean, if you're nearby, it'll be loud. >> You'll hear it. Oh, yeah. But we hear generators now everywhere. >> Absolutely right.
>> Everybody has a generator. >> I Well, yeah, absolutely. I just want to I I I I commend the idea of a um an acoustic uh type of uh enclosure. >> Yeah. >> Um other questions from board members
and um Mr. Koker, do you have any other um experts that you want to >> Yeah, my my intention >> Yes, your traffic. I'm sorry. >> Yeah, absolutely. If I could go to uh Patrick Downey maybe to um I know you're
the board's um traffic engineer had given a review member review memo. My apologies and Mr. Downey had written a response. I think it's it's been transmitted but I think he wanted to address it on the record. Um so I could have Mr. Downey do that now with respect
to the middle school. That would be appreciated. >> Sure. And uh would you like me to begin with qualifications? >> Yeah. Yes, please. >> Sure. Um, so once again, thanks for having me. Patrick Downey, uh, with Dynamic Traffic, traffic traffic engineer for the schools. I'm a licensed
professional engineer in the state of New Jersey as well as Pennsylvania. Uh, hold a CR a supplemental certification as a professional traffic operations engineer. Uh, my education is a bachelor of science and civil engineering from Rowan University. Uh, and I've testified before other planning and zoning boards
throughout New Jersey. I've had um the great opportunity to work with this particular design team on a number of other school projects in New Jersey and excited to be a part of another good one. >> Great. Thank you. We accept your qualifications. >> Thanks very much. Um so actually while I
begin I might ask if um our engineer Beth if you don't mind maybe put up the overall site plan that you started with. I think that might be useful as I go through a few of the items I wanted to summarize. Um starting just with kind of what our overall process is for a project like
this where we're looking to uh improve and expand an existing facility. So we obviously have a number of conversations with the school to understand what they see out there today uh where their pain points are etc. We do our own boots on the ground observations, see where buses
and parents uh are using for their loading operations. Talk to the crossing guards, try to pick their brains what they see on a daily basis. Uh and then review the proposed plans to make sure that they're going to adequately accommodate um not only the the minor increases in traffic from the student enrollment expected to increase over
time as a result of population growth, but see if we uh can't make things a little bit better to organize the traffic activity that already exists for the existing school use on the property. Uh we submitted a report uh for this school and the rest um in early August
that uh looked at a number of different factors. chief among them being um additional trip generation for the expected student enrollment increase over time. Um to summarize, for this particular school, obviously being um the only uh public middle school, it
gets a little more uh increased than the individual elementary schools do, as you'll hear in some of the other applications later. Uh but even here, we don't believe it's something that's dramatic. So during the morning peak hour, which um from a traffic perspective normally overlaps a little bit more with the commuting peak hour of
surrounding community traffic, um based on the rates published by the Institute of Transportation Engineers, which is really the industry standard nationally, uh we're projecting a trip generation increase of about 130 or so trips. And I think it's important for the board to
know what a trip is in the industry. That's a one-way movement. So a single parent say dropping off a student is two trips. They arrive at the site and then depart the site. So 130 trips is really between 60 to 70 additional cars if you want to think of it in more layman's
terms, which is about one per minute during that peak hour. Um relative to the existing volume of traffic already associated with that school use, we don't believe that's anything that really changes the character of the operation here. Uh but nonetheless, we've identified a number of improvements that we think could
actually better manage uh the traffic circulation at this site compared to what it is today. Even taking into account that increase, um I think it's also important to note that increase in traffic isn't necessarily proposed quote unquote in in the sense of a normal land
development application this board might ordinarily see for a new housing development or commercial use. This is really a projected increase from uh uh population growth that's coming whether we accommodate it or not. So, we're trying to get ahead of it and make sure the facilities can accommodate that
growth when it does occur. Um, as you can see, and the board's probably very familiar with this site, there's not a lot of onsite uh traffic circulation. The parking lots are rather small and simple. A lot of the activity is occurring on the municipal rightway
streets of Walnut and Guo. So there's nothing uh we can do without really close coordination with the municipality which has already begun at a preliminary level. And just to kind of give you a menu of some of the improvements we're looking to make at a high level um that we've received preliminary positive
feedback on and a willingness to work with from the municipality. Um better allocating the curb space. Uh right now you know where the uh bus loading zones are signed to be versus where they actually occur. Where parents are signed to be versus where they actually go. It doesn't really all make sense. I think
there's a much more efficient way we can allocate that curb space. Uh better striping along the roadways to give you uh two quick examples. Uh there are some ADA parking spaces along VO directly up against the existing pedestrian crosswalk. That's really the least
appropriate place for parking spaces since it actually blocks visibility of the crosswalk. It doesn't comply with New Jersey Title 39 uh parking regulations. So looking for a better location for those ADA spaces. It's just as convenient, but not too close to that crosswalk. Uh trimming low hanging vegetation
across pedestrian routes, specifically along Walnut. That's something we observed. Installation of additional uh bike parking spaces and uh installation of some additional ADA spaces uh in the on-site rear parking lot you see to the right of your screen there. Uh based on some feedback
from your traffic professional review. In terms of uh parking supply, we also did uh go out there and quantify existing parking demand on a typical school day uh toward the end of last year uh and compare that to the existing and proposed parking supplies. To put
some numbers to that, uh the proposed uh parking supply in the future condition um including both the on-site lot and the accessory lot just off the page to the north here across Guo. Uh proposed total parking supply of 131 spaces. What
we found uh during the peak time which is really midday once every uh one has arrived and is parked for the day was about 115 spaces. Now we do have some additional staff anticipated as that population grows of about 10 to 12 even
conservatively assuming a growth of 12 more uh parked vehicles on site. That's a total demand expected of 127 which still falls within the 131 spaces proposed. So from an operational perspective, um even considering that growth that's expected, uh there's
enough parking to satisfy the needs of the school between those two parking lots. In terms of bicycle parking, uh we found uh that there's a lot of students who bike to school here. It's actually great to see the parking uh the bike parking spaces were overflowing on the days that
we did observations. So there's absolutely a demand for more bicycle parking. Uh, one of the comments in the traffic review is to make sure that the bike parking supply provided uh, complies with ordinance requirements. At a minimum, we would absolutely agree to do that, but uh, we might actually go
above and beyond that because additional uh, biking trips means less vehicle trips is exactly what we want to encourage. Uh, and it's great to see we want that to continue. Uh, we did submit uh, some responses to the traffic review letter uh, from the board's traffic consultants. In their letter, uh, they requested some
additional information to, you know, further clarify things stated in our original August reports, uh, and made some good suggestions for improvements to the plan, like the ADA parking I mentioned before. Um, overall, we take no issue with the comments in that letter. I'm happy to go through it in more detail if you like. Uh, but in
general, we would agree agree to comply uh, with what's uh, stated in that letter. >> Great. >> That's really all I have in direct. Uh, happy to answer any questions. Um, is the bike parking covered? >> No.
>> Correct. The bike parking. >> See, I didn't hear I didn't see you answer, but I saw Mr. Mr. Cohen shake his head, so that's why I assumed the answer was no. >> Yes, that's correct. Uh, it is not covered. >> Uh, thanks, Mr. Cohen.
>> Yeah, I I did want to ask a couple of questions about the bike parking. Um because from my read of the of the the staff comments, they were suggesting I think both that the quantity of the bike parking comply with the ordinance as
well as the design. I know almost all the racks that are there currently don't really comply with the design of the kinds of racks that um we like to see. So, I just I'm wondering number
one, can you quantify like how many bike parking spaces the ordinance would require? About how many you have currently about how many you have currently that comply with the design requirements and
how many you're talking about adding. So, Ed. >> Sure. So, the the bike racks that are there today are fairly old, not exactly a modern design, fairly rusted. We don't have an exact uh count of those, but we will absolutely need more racks to increase the supply. So, if it's I think
there's maybe five existing racks. If those were to be a request of the board to replace, I don't think that would be an issue to ensure they're a consistent modern design. Um the ordinance requirements a little bit uh difficult to calculate. It's um not just based on, you know, square footage or students, an
easy number. It has to do with occupancy of the building. Um so our suggestion in our response um to the traffic review was as any condition of an approval this board might choose to grant uh we would confirm that uh calculation with your professionals make sure enough are provided uh in the correct location and
design to their satisfaction. >> Great. >> Yeah. And Pat, I wanted to comment that in your uh traffic study, you actually have identified what you feel would be the percentage of of of students and there's probably some staff too who who
will ride their bikes to school. So, we would certainly account for that as a minimum number uh and probably then some as well. And we could certainly replace the racks that are there with racks that comply with the with the municipalities uh design standards. That that shouldn't be a problem. We'll just have to find
out what those are and then we can we can get that and we'll take care of it. Sure. >> Yeah, absolutely. We want to make sure it meets the requirements and meets the operational >> even the existing racks. It is you we're doing this beautiful addition. We we don't want we're moving them. We're moving them anyway, right Beth? So,
>> Mr. with you. I'm glad you mentioned the fact that faculty even or staff might be riding bicycles as well because I noticed that the day on which you did the parking count was in early June, which is probably a peak time for
um you know staff to be riding a bicycle or walking if that's um you know if they're within a suitable distance. And the question is, you know, do we feel comfortable that the parking demand on a
day in early June really is the maximum parking demand uh or whether you know in the winter or when it's rainy, you know, you might have a significantly higher demand for parking. So if somebody could
respond to that. >> Sure. Yeah, I can handle that. Um I think it's a great question. Um definitely worth discussing. I think certainly um your student population is very likely to vary in terms of you know bikeability versus not depending on the weather. Um I can say I'm within biking
distance of my particular office here from my home and >> I'm asking this in regard to the car parking. >> Yeah, understood. >> Okay. >> No, I I guess what I meant is I think most parent uh the staff get into their normal routines for the most part. There
might be a few more who choose to bike, but I think for the most part, if they choose to drive, they're they're drivers and that's kind of the mode they take. Um, so, you know, even me, I do like to bike recreationally, I've never even considered, depending on the weather to to bike to work, even though I I could by distance
and and the point is, >> Mr. Downey, >> your answer is you don't think that there would be more staff driving in inclement weather. No, I think there certainly could be a little, but I don't think it's a major fluctuation and the parking supply is not, you know, right
up against the the the demand projected. Um, >> it certainly is. I mean, at 127 demand, that's pretty close up against what was it 132 133 that >> Yeah, it's about a force base surplus. Um, again, I'm not exactly sure what the
breakdown is of the staff, but I I wouldn't expect it to vary that much depending on the the time of the year. Yeah. I think the reality is short of doing something with the lot across on the other side of GR they were parking
people park along there anyway. I mean that's there is parking on that that on that side of the street. Um and so I think that kind of be the overflow unless something changes there uh with an ordinance or something. People do park there and it gets it does get
filled up there mostly after school actually and on weekends actually. So when I've seen more cars there >> I I feel a little bit in an awkward position because we're almost always trying to convince applicants to do less parking.
Um but you know my understanding is that the schools actually have a requirement to provide parking for staff. Um you know and so saying well if there's not enough
in the lot they'll they'll park on the street. I'm not sure I I'm not sure whether that requires some action of actually reserving spots on the street. >> Yeah. uh from a legal standpoint.
>> Going back to the traffic report, Pat, I just if I heard something wrong, but you you have accounted for all the staff in the building with the parking already. That's in your count. Yes. >> Yeah. So, what we're finding is that the existing parking um demand is not a one
to one ratio with the staff um count. So, that could be due to some bikers or walkers. It could be due to to car pooling or dropping off. There's a number of different modes of trans absenteeism. >> Yeah, some absenteeism which is fairly typical at any given day. So, it's not to say it's a onetoone need for staff to
spaces. It's generally less than that. And that's what we saw uh out there. >> And I I think one of the other recommendations from staff was to consider a traffic demand management program of some type in the schools. And maybe that's more a question for um for
Mr. Lusa whether that would be something you would consider, but I would think that that would be another appropriate response if you were to find that the counts that were done on that day in June uh were not fully reflective of the
demand. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I think we can agree we should continue to monitor that that situation over there uh at the middle school uh with the other in conjunction with the other changes that are being made.
>> Sure. >> Just just >> Yeah, I'll just add really quickly uh Brandon that at least in my experience, I'm accustomed to not having enough parking at school sites. I I'm not George would know better than I would. not aware of a requirement that you have
to have sufficient parking for every staff member. Um I I've for as long as I've been in the business um I'm familiar with staff members who have to park on the street or a lot nearby like a half mile away even to uh then walk a
path to get to their um to their respective schools. And at the uh administrative offices where I work on Valley Road, there is insufficient parking for all of the staff who work there. So, I personally park on the street each day. Um, so I think there's
enough parking, maybe not right at the school, but close enough that I would hope we'd be able to manage if we have a surge or an increase that we didn't anticipate to try to accommodate everyone in a way that at least was reasonable and not too far off. >> Yeah. And I think realistically we have
really other than a small area that's trees and grass over in the parking lot the the auxiliary parking lot on the other side of the street. There is nowhere else to construct parking on the middle school property. So then I think it has to be a collaborative effort to
figure out what we would do u together you know if if that situation should occur. But uh as far as I know and what Pat has said uh it doesn't appear to be an issue at this time. >> Just to briefly chime in, we don't we don't believe it to be an issue. But um
in addition to coming before this honorable board, we have to jump through a lot of other hoops including you know going through approvals with the DOE and that parking on site is is one of the the things that's under their jurisdiction and they review. Um so um again we don't think it >> but but parking that spills onto the
streets is in our our purview. So [Music] >> well we think we think that the supply is adequate but um you know >> we don't we don't based on what the data Patrick has provided dynamic traffic has provided that doesn't appear to be uh
the case of what of what would occur during during a normal school day. Okay, thank you. Um, Mr. O'Donnell, >> thank you. Uh, why was there no
consideration of EV charging stations? >> I don't know if um I don't know if Beth wanted to address that. >> I can address that. Uh, so it was looked at uh it's it's really an an issue of expense. It's an issue of cost and and um and uh the decision was made by a
district two things that to try to uh find a way to maybe have a vendor or somebody like that come in and install a system that could then be a revenue generating and that would be the only way the district would be uh interested in doing uh an EV
charging station only because of the infrastructure putting it in place. It's costly. Um, so that but but they are open. It is on the pallet for discussion at a future date. >> Well, it seems that it would be easier
to make them EV ready even if you don't put in the the final connections. Uh, you wouldn't have to then worry about retaring up the part of the parking lot in order to to put in the infrastructure
for it. Sure, we we could we could speak to the engineer to the mechanical or to the electrical engineer about what that what that would uh entail in terms of making capacity available in the electrical switch gear that's going into the new additions. We could certainly talk to them about that uh and at least
have the ability to make the connection uh on the uh on the school side. Okay. So, if a vendor >> ready would be a a very smart thing, I think. >> Sure. Yeah. I I don't think that would be a problem. Even if it's just a spot where a spare a future spare breaker could go or something. We could run a
pipe outside and put a box. That's really not I'm not worried about that. It's the cost of the actual system, I think. Uh and obviously it takes away a parking space that could be used by somebody else. So, um but that we could certainly explore that further, but putting in the the back the uh
infrastructure report, I don't see a problem with that. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Uh Miss Pearl Mutter. And then yeah, go ahead, Freddy. >> Uh, well, I want to reiterate some of what's already been said because from I'm on the environmental commission. I'm their representative on here. And from
an environmental standpoint, we certainly would like to see EV charging stations. And um, the fact that it takes away somebody else's spot doesn't give me very much comfort because you're taking away a spot from an EV station.
But if you put in look into the infrastructure and do as much as you can, um, we certainly would be in favor of that. And if you could possibly find the money to do it now, we certainly would like to see that as well. I mean, from an environmental standpoint, it it clearly makes a difference. >> Sure. Happy to revisit.
>> We will and we will include the infrastructure. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Um, >> anybody catch the last thing Mr. Dy Dy said? Could you repeat that, >> Mr. Duthy? The your last your very last statement.
You'll certainly include We will include the infrastructure for the electric vehicle charging stations in the in the designs for the electrical systems of all three additions at the the you know projects middle school community park. Okay.
>> Thank you. Thank you very much. >> Sure. >> Um are there other questions uh for the schools about um the middle school >> I just had >> project? I want to be mindful of time.
you know, we have a hard stop at 11 o'clock and if we can get through all of these, I know we would all >> want to do that and we have public comment to hear as well. So, Mr. Muller, did you >> Yeah, just just a question for M. Mr. Downey. Um, you would identified a whole
series of improvements that you were at least considering or maybe doing better allocation of of curb spaces, striping for the roadways, etc., etc., moving those ADA spaces off gu are those all in that report that you had submitted to the um to the town.
>> So yeah, that report summarized our initial recommendations. We've had even more discussions with the municipal engineering department since then to sort of refine some of those. So um you know unlike a normal site plan where the improvements we're discussing are those on our own site. It's it's a coordination effort since they're in the
public right away. So, um, you know, our commitment at this point is to continue working with them to make sure we see whatever improvements they would like to see happen um, instituted. >> Thank you. >> Yep. >> Madame Chair, Jim Purcell, >> acting land use engineer. Um,
>> I on on that same note, um, Mr. Mr. Danny, could you please speak to the memo that was received by you from our municipal engineer as to what the municipality is willing to do in order to um consider your recommendations?
>> Sure. Um could with number of memos, can you just confirm which one you're referring to? I apologize. you you received the memo from our municipal engineer Deanna Stockton regarding the um
>> regarding the efforts that the municipality would enter into to um meet your recommendations. If you didn't receive it, the school district received it. Actually, it was sent to Beth Kenderdine. So, um Beth, did you share it with your
traffic engineers? I believe um it was shared with the entire team but I have it in front of me. >> I think I think it would behoove you to uh share uh um speak to it in terms of the recommendations from the from your
traffic consultant. >> I will I will share it. Um um I have in front of me that the memo I can send Pat a copy as I as I do this.
Hold on one second. Um the um the the comments provided by Deanna um are regarding the um curb management along Guio Avenue
and Walnut Lane. Um regarding the signs, the drop off and pickup zone signs for buses only. Um Deanna states that the uh signage improvements could be beneficial to assist with messaging the proper behavior. So she agrees with that
comment. Um the second comment is regarding the two ADA parking stalls uh which were already mentioned by Patrick. Um she is agreeing that the ADA parking stalls should be relocated to provide
the 25- ft clear zone on each side of the crosswalk. Um the um regarding the midblock crosswalk across Guo Avenue between the accessory parking
lot and the school building. Um they are she states that the um Princeton public schools has recently changed traffic operations for the accessory lot. Parents are no longer allowed to use it during arrival and
dismissal. With the proposed relocation of the ADA parking stalls, the visibility of the crosswalk will be enhanced. So, no further modifications are proposed. Um, and regarding an additional crosswalk on Guo Avenue,
she does not uh support that based on consultation with the Police Traffic Safety Bureau. Um the uh she has a comment regarding the um investigation of improvements at
Guio Avenue and Walnut Lane. Um she states that the municipality will consult with the public schools and police traffic safety bureau on the potential of restricting certain traffic movements when the crossing guard is controlling the intersection. Um so
she's going to the municipality has agreed to work with uh police traffic safety and uh Princeton public schools regarding that intersection. Um the recommendation to provide a wider
dropoff lane along the middle school frontage on Walnut Lane is not currently supported based on consultation with police traffic safety bureau. Um the lowhanging vegetation is going to
be handled by uh public schools. The um the comment regarding shifting the bus morning drop off location along Walnut Lane to the north side of Franklin Avenue is not currently supported because um based on a
recommendation from the Police Traffic Safety Bureau, but they said they would monitor the situation. Um and then the follow the last one a second. Yep. The last comment is regarding the partial
southbound closure of Walnut Lane at Franklin Avenue during the afternoon pickup period. Um she states that the municipality does not support the recommendation but will monitor the situation and consult with Police Traffic Safety Bureau and the and the
school district. Um so I'll I'll forward this memo to Patrick. I wasn't aware that he did not have it. So, um, and well, like as we said, we we've been in consultation with the municipality regarding all of the recommendations
made by um, Patrick Downey and his team and we'll continue to consult with them. >> Um, Mr. Leco. >> Yes, thank you, Madam Chair. So, just to follow up on that, is it safe to say that the schools are in favor or they
don't have an issue with any of those recommendations and and you'd honor them um either as a condition of approval or uh uh where applicable or just after the fact? >> Certainly. Um I at the end of the day,
they are township roads and they're those to do with what they believe is safest and best. Um, we came up with a number of recommendations, some of which sound like are agreeable, some maybe not so much, and that's fine. Uh, we just want to be a good partner and make sure uh whatever they would like to see comes to fruition here. >> Thank you.
>> Uh, thank you. Thanks for posing that question, Mr. Leco. And, uh, Mr. Purcell, is that um, what you wanted to hear? Need slash needed to hear? Uh I I think it was important for the uh the planning board to hear and other
>> uh other agreements that uh the municipal engineer has made for the other two schools as well. So they should address those as well in their testimony. >> Good. Right. Thank you for that. Um other questions uh or comments from
any uh Mr. Lusa? >> Thank you, Madam Chair. I just wanted to mention that Jim and Diana were absolutely terrific and gave a lot of time to us. They've been out to all three sites. Uh they observed the dismissal and arrival at schools. They
um exchanged ideas with us and ask questions. So, uh whatever guidance they give us and whatever they're willing to do, of course, we will accept that and continue to work with them. They've been they've been terrific partners for us. >> Um thank you. Thanks for saying that.
and um we know they're terrific and and uh we appreciate that you think so too. Um any other questions from board? Any other points that uh staff or
professionals or witnesses wish to make before we hear from the public? Okay, with that I will open up the meeting to public comment. I'm trying to get my cursor to the right place. We have um
uh 18 attendees here. Um now is the time if you're um uh observing the meeting and wish to address the board. Now's the time to raise your hand. Click on the raise hand icon and we will bring you over in the
order in which your hands are raised. Um Joanne Marshall will be first. Um, so just to go over the protocol, Mr. U. Mueller will um swear you in and then he'll ask you to state your name and spell your last
name. And it's helpful to know what street you live on. We're not asking for your entire uh street address, just sort of where where in town you are. And uh um
so with that I think we need to move um Miss Marshall over and I don't see any other hands going up right now. So please do if you want to speak please do raise your hand and we'll take people in the order in which hands are raised. Mr. Le Mr. Leco.
>> Yes. Thank you Madam Chair and I I just want to reiterate to the public that we are uh this is being split up into three separate applications. So, the comment period right now is just for the middle school application that we just heard. And then, as the chair said earlier, we'll get to Littlebrook next and the
community park right after that with their own comment periods. >> Great. Yes. Thank you for reiterating that. Um, so let's let's see. I've lost track. We have
moved over our first uh member of the public. Have we not? I'm not seeing her on my screen quite yet. >> She actually declined to be a a panelist several invitations. >> Okay. Okay. Um and so you moved over um
Nick Scott. Is there someone else that you moved over before Nick Scott? >> Joanne Marshall >> was he he tried? >> Yes. But she declined. Okay. Um Okay,
Mr. Scott, if you could unmute yourself, uh, Mr. Muller will we'll swear you in. >> Could you raise your right hand, please? You swear or affirm the testimony about to give will be the truth. >> I do. Thank you. >> So, sworn affirms, please um say your
full name, spell your last name, and give your street. >> Uh, it's Nicholas Scott. Last name is SO TT and I'm at Guio Avenue. >> Thanks. Welcome. Go right ahead. >> Uh, thank you. Yes. So, I'm at 243 Guio,
so right adjacent to the middle school and opposite the uh the accessory lot. Uh, and this comment relates to um one of the uh parking plan recommendations. Um, and I know there's quite a bit of
discussion about the parking capacity, so apologies if I if I missed this one in particular, but um, I did see that there was a recommendation F in the traffic report to, uh, expand the accessory parking lot to the east and remove extraneous, uh, grass islands to provide additional
capacity uh, within the lot. Um, so, uh, my comment was just to, if that is still, uh, something that's under consideration, uh, state that I'd be supportive of, um,
filling in additional parking in those extraneous grass islands, but, uh, really would, um, would not want to see that, uh, parking lot expanded to to the east, uh, which, uh, I think would add to some traffic congestion issues and
some issues with blocking uh driveways for for those of us that uh that live on on Guo and uh would also have the potential to uh you know require the removal of some uh mature trees. So
apologies if that's not under consideration, but um I did want to just make that that comment. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. Um Mr. Downey or uh Miss Kinderdine, does somebody want to just clarify what the plan is for that
parking? Are you going to remove the the islands and create more parking there? I did not hear that that was part of the plan. >> It's not part of not part of the plan. It's not >> Didn't think so. Okay. >> It was part of the It was >> within the the traffic report as as something the board or schools may
consider at some point in the future, but it's not part of the current project. So, we're not moving forward with it at this time. >> All right. Good. Thank you. Thanks, Mr. Scott. Um, so any other member of the public who would wish to address the board
about the middle school, please raise your hand right now. Uh seeing none, I will close the public comment portion of this application and let's move on to any final uh thoughts or questions, comments from
uh any panelist. And if not, let's see. I know this is a slightly um different sort of overview go over the conditions process than we might typically go through because of what's
under our jurisdiction and what isn't. Mr. Leco and Mr. Mueller, could you walk us through exactly what we need to do right now? I think you want to um basically uh act on the uh the application which is um
conditional use approval and then in terms of there's no site plan um and there would be the conditions we um that we talked about. >> Okay. So those conditions and um um
uh including the um recommendations uh pro and um and not uh from um Deanna Stockton's uh memo as well as those that are laid
out in the staff memo. in the staff memo, right? Yep. Um and then the other ones I have are um the Anastasiki comments in response to the
Downey material um and the report he originally did um then replace the bike racks with racks um ba basically of modern design um in location that the uh the staff approved the num the number
location location and design and uh location that the staff would approve. Um and then um they'll consider installing EV ready spaces and will include I don't know if it's the right way of phrasing it. I think it is electrical
infrastructure and the electrical systems for the school to service uh EV um spaces if if they were ever installed. Um and I think that's that's what I have
>> Mr. Mr. Co oh Mr. Cohen and then Mr. or let's go. >> Yeah. I just I think that it's appropriate to have a condition for the masonry enclosure at the cold storage and for the sound fence at the generator
as that both of those were represented. They would be >> in fact >> agreeable. Yeah. >> Let me go over the re our report which I had not gone over. Um and that would be that there'd be um the coal box if it's installed uh there'll be a masonry
wall or coastal fence around it and uh I take it a vegetative buffer around that for aesthetic purposes. Um and that the generator well the generator's been moved closer to the building so we don't have to say anything about that. Well,
that they did agree to um a not planting planted buffer, but an acoustic uh fence around the generator. >> Generator masonry fence or acoustical fence. >> Acoustical or masonry? No, probably not masonry. There's just not enough space,
physical space, right? It's probably have to be something thinner. Yeah. >> Acoustical is probably more important because masonry is just gonna bounce the sound around anyway. Yeah. Um and that the um the the fence
will be uh as high so as high as the um condenser on the top of the coal box. Um and then um that's all I have from the from the report. >> Mr. Cohen again. >> Yeah. I just also want to propose some
language regarding my concern about the quantity of the uh you know car parking and maybe the condition is that they will monitor the adequacy of the spots that they have on site and if they
find that they're overflowing that they will coordinate with the municipality to identify suitable offsite parking locations, whether that's at Westminster Choir College or
uh on street in in certain locations, um to make sure that we're not negatively impacting the residential neighbors with uh parking overflow on their on those streets. >> Uh would a third option for that be um
also like removing those islands in the existing parking lot and things like that? So other not just off streetet kind of binding the municipality but also on their property as well. >> Sure. Yeah. >> Yeah.
>> And madam chair I had one more >> please. >> Uh there was a discussion about native plantings in the rain garden and I believe the school said they would work with the municipality the municipal staff to make sure that's done. >> Yep. Yep.
But all that they said about that was highly reassuring that they're >> and Madam Chair, Madam Chair, >> Madam Chair, I have one more as well. >> Please go ahead, Jim. >> I think it would uh uh be uh appropriate for them to provide us with photometrics
to show what the lighting is going to look like with on the back of the building by the parking. um just uh to so I can be satisfied that there is no trespass uh onto the adjoining properties. >> Thank you very much for that. That was
going to be my very last question. Um or something that got at that. So I appreciate it. Yeah. >> And and as part of this overall nuisance, I'd also like to see the uh audio the um yeah >> decel
>> the decibel levels uh that that um I think Mr. Duthy actually uh said that they did have some mapping for that. >> Good. For the generator. Yeah, >> for the generator. Yeah, >> sure. I'll have the engineer provide that and the photometrics. Yes.
>> Thank you. >> I think for the generator and the cold box, which I keep wanting to call an ice box like my >> walk-in freezer. Walking freezer. Yes, >> walking freezer. >> Yeah, we'll get that. I made a note of that. whatever sound whatever sound
information you have please. >> Okay. Um so with that are there and if there are no uh >> oh has frozen. Yes.
That's a fine time for my screen to to freeze >> because you were talk you were talking about the ice box too much. >> Oh, I must Yeah. Um yeah, my my computer took the hint. Um did someone make a motion
yet? Thank you, Mr. Cohen. Moved by Mr. Cohen. Is there a second? >> A second. She's frozen again. >> Okay. Does Does Alvin get it or does >> Alvin gets it? Yeah, Alvin gets it.
>> Um, we'll give we'll give Louise a second here and if not, we'll go ahead with the with the roll call vote. >> Okay. Um, Justin, are you going to do the roll call vote?
>> Certainly. Uh, Mr. Body, >> yes. >> Miss Capazolei, >> yes. >> Council Cohen, >> yes. >> Mr. McGawan, >> yes. >> Mr. O'Donnell, >> yes.
>> Miss Pearl Mutter, >> yes. >> Mr. Taylor, >> yes. >> Miss Wilson Anderson, >> yes. >> And I will try to stall as long as possible. But,
uh, it looks like we may have lost her. >> He'll be back. >> Either way, uh, uh, motion approved. >> All right. >> Would now be a good time uh, for a bathroom break? I think I think a five
minute break would be in order here till uh the chair can can uh log back in. >> Great. So that would be let's meet back at yeah 8 it's 8:32 now 8:33 now. Let's meet back at u 8:38
and uh certainly before 29. So thank you very much. >> Thank you. Oh, >> great. Well, again, um, apologies for, um,
bouncing off, but, uh, you were in very capable hands with, Mr. O'Donnell. We should be ready at any moment to do the same thing. Uh, because I, as you guys can tell, I'm not in the room I usually am in. Um, so the next application we
have is, uh, for Littleberg Elementary School. This is a conditional use author conditional use authorization at 39 Magnolia Lane, block 5803, lot one. This is file number P2525
684 CO. >> Um Justin, oh thank you, Mr. Mueller. Can you speak to jurisdiction and proper notice? >> Publication and service are in order and the board has notice. And if I may, with respect maybe to facilitate things a
little bit, if we could treat everybody who was sworn in during the last session um as to be continuing to be under oath so they don't have to be reworn. >> Excellent. >> And the same thing with respect to the um qualifications. >> Good. That's Thank you very much for
that. I'm glad that's uh I'm glad that's something that we can easily do. Thanks. Yeah, it's unusual, but here given that it's the same applicant, I think it's perfectly appropriate. >> Great. Thanks, Jerry. Justin. >> Uh, well, Madam Chair,
>> to say before we to get us going or >> No, no. In that spirit, I would just say the same things I said before the last one about the conditional use. So, I think we could hand it off to the schools to present the plan. >> Okay. Um, do we want to start with Mr. Kroker, Mr. Dudy, or Miss Kenderdine?
Just briefly, I I I'll refrain from uh this, you know, making any additional comments. I I I think the same, you know, same as Mr. Leco, the same comments apply. The only madam chair already read the the address and block and lot into the record. The only thing I would add is that Little Brook is
located in the R4 district. Um we're similarly, you know, we're also here to pursue the you the referendum project. So, I will um probably proceed in the same order and I'll I'll I'll ask Mr. Duthy just to give a brief overview and then we'll ask uh Miss Kenderdine to um
go through some of the more you know detailed engineering plans. >> Great. And including anything from um uh Diana Stockton's memo that applies. >> Sure. >> Okay. >> Sure. I don't really have much to say.
I'll turn it over to Beth shortly. uh other than in keeping with really all of the projects again trying to maintain sensitive and compact footprints you know that um you know accomplish a lot of things functionally like tying parts of buildings together you know so
there's connectivity you know we've we've tried to create some nice outdoor spaces we've created some little courtyards things like that that I think are going to enhance the overall uh design and improve the site as a matter of fact uh and um without further ado I'll just turn over to Beth thank
Thank you. >> Thank you. Um I'm trying to find my memo regarding little Sorry. >> Yes. >> And will you uh can you share your screen again? The way Great. Great.
>> Yes. Um um so again I'm just using the um overall site plan. It was on the cover sheet of our plan set that we submitted. Um the the this is the existing Little
Brook school uh located on Magnolia Lane. Uh you'll see the the entrance driveway, the bus loop, the parking in the front. Uh we are proposing a small building addition and then a larger building addition at the back of the
school. Um we're going to replace an existing paved play area behind the school and we will be expanding the existing parking lot behind the school to accommodate um uh more more parking
on the site. There is um uh sidewalks just to replace existing sidewalks, connect the new additions to the existing sidewalks, and we're proposing a mulched playground um behind the school between the two
additions. Um so I can go through um the similar comments that we had from uh the memorandum excuse me um said by the planning board
Justin Leco Dan Weissman Derek Bridger and James Purcell dated September 19th 2025. Um it's typically the same comments that we had. So, um, what I can do is just go through kind of
the So, this is the site plan showing the parking expansion. Um, well, I can show I'll show you the this is the existing parking lot behind the school. So, you can see it's kind of in an Lshape. So,
we are just kind of squaring that out to provide additional parking for the for the school site. Uh, we're reconstructing the existing uh dumpster enclosure in the center so that it still has direct um access off the main
driveway. Um, we're restriping it um to provide standard 9 by8 parking stalls. Um, the entire outside will be curved. There's two. Oh, sorry. Excuse me. There's one island proposed. Um, and
then like I said, there's the building edition is here. There's the paved parking or paved play area behind that building addition. And then the rest of the site is the mulched playground.
Um, the the new building addition to the rear of the school with a um an interior courtyard. Um, and then we are maintaining an existing playground at the at the rear corner of that site and proposing some ramps and walkways just
to provide access to these rear doors to the school. Um, the new bio retention basin will be located directly next to the
parking lot. So there'll be a trench drain across the bottom of the parking lot collecting as much of the pavement as possible to flow into the bio retention basin where it'll be treated for um suspended solids removal before
being discharged um into the same outfall that the existing storm sewer system discharges. Now, um the the comments from the um planning
um professionals um pertain first to the ADA parking stalls. Um there's a comment regarding the ADA stall requirement because we the the facility contains 62 spaces. Um, ADA
standards require three accessible parking spaces. Um, this states that only one is shown, but I think that there was a misinterpretation because we there are two existing stalls. Hold on one second. I will So,
we we're proposing one new stall um with the revised plan, but there's two existing stalls at at the front of the school. So we are meeting the requirement for the three ADA parking stalls. Um the second comment is regarding
lighting. Um at this point we are not proposing any new site lighting for this uh the additional expanded parking. The existing parking lot is lit by dusk dawn provided by the utility company. There's
a right in here there's a utility pole with an overhead light. Uh we intend to use that existing light. Um if it doesn't provide enough lighting, I believe the intention is for the school to work with the local utility company
to provide additional dusk to dawn lighting through the utility company. Uh but it should be noted that the parking lot itself is well away from any residential areas. um and surrounded on all sides by dense
wooded areas. So, there should be no issues with um spillage. The um um I've already addressed uh a lot of the storm water management concerns. Like I said, we're proposing a large bio
retention basin. It's going to be planted with native vegetation. We're also proposing landscaping around the site. Hold on one second. I will pull up the the landscaping plan. So, you can see we're proposing um
native trees and shrubs within the the new bio retention basin. We're proposing some new trees around the site um especially to replace what's being taken out in the wooded area by the um by the new uh parking lot.
Um and we are the the bio retention bas will meet all uh New Jersey storm water management rules for green infrastructure. Um for the most part the other comments um are answers are the same. Um there is
one comment regarding a valid freshwater wetlands letter of interpretation for this for this project. You can see might be um right at the top here. This is the edge of our of our new parking lot where
we're we're sort of squaring it off the existing. This line here is the limit of the 50ft wetlands transition area. We did have the wetlands delineated by um a certified ecologist and he
established the limit of the wetlands and established this 50-ft wetlands transition area. So if anything we would probably go to the D for um a a footprint of disturbance um LOI
for no presence of wetlands or transition areas. Um but we're confident that we're outside the transition area. Yes. >> Sorry to interrupt Beth. Um Nat Bodheimer, do you have a question you need to ask? >> Yeah. Um I mean I can't you can wait till the end of the presentation. So I
don't I didn't Okay. At this at this moment moment. >> Okay. Thanks. >> Coincidentally, that's the end of my presentation. >> Incredible. >> Okay. That's the end of the comments from the the staff report. So if there's if there's something you'd like me to
address, please feel free. anything in um Indiana's uh memo you want to speak to? >> I will leave that to Patrick who now has a copy of said memo. >> Okay. >> So he can he can speak to that.
>> Okay. Um >> he will also address the traffic um traffic uh comments. >> Okay. >> From the staff memo. >> All right. Um what's your question, Matt? Well, I was just I was curious about the bio retention and whether that I I couldn't tell where the on the right
hand side whether the how much space there is between the southernmost edge of the bio retention swale and the woods and whether the existing ball field, you know, is is still in place or whether
that that is occupying the entirety of the of the ballfield space. It does not occupy the entirety of it, but it does cut into it. >> So, um, probably this gives you a better
understanding. >> This is the the edge of the bio retention basin, and this is the tree line. >> So, we will be cutting into that that lawn recreational space. >> I'm I'm curious, is the bio retention basin uh can it I mean, is it a p is it
passive? Is it is it possible for is it accessible to kids? Is it is that part of the play space or is it not part? >> No, no, it's designed um to hold water
um for up to 72 hours. >> So, this is not like a lower impact development kind of bio retention basin. This will be a pond in >> correct. It'll be a pond when it for >> I said 72 hours when it rains really
really hard. It is it is >> correct, you know, >> it's not a it's not like a low impact development kind of thing with like pvious materials and a bio in a basin, you know, in a basin beneath it.
It's it will be a pond when it rains. >> That's >> Yes. Um, and then I guess my next question is, you know, one of the nicer features of the driveway and, you know, the the the the parking that is closest
to the street is that it's all uh, you know, there are a lot of trees and I do not see much tree coverage in the new parking lot. It looks like it's going to be a pretty bare apron. And I'm just kind of curious
just about heat island kind of things and you know what what you know are there any opportunities for adding shade trees in that parking area or is and have you considered it or have you considered it and rejected it? But
that's that's my question. Um my answer to that would be we could we could incorporate islands um so long as we meet the requirement for parking on the site. Um obviously taking out or
putting in islands would mean taking out parking stalls. Um we are proposing additional trees around the exterior of the parking lot. We're not proposing any grass islands within the parking lot itself. >> What is going to be between the bio
retention basin and the edge of the parking spot? I don't see any trees noted noted there. >> Hold on. Um, let me find the correct plans. >> Can I also ask is that bio retention basically going to be you know In what way is it going to be separated from the
surrounding area? Is it going to be fenced? Is it going to be Are there stone blocks? Like what's >> Yeah, we'll we'll propose a fence around it to protect it from from students accessing it. It'll most likely be a 4 foot high um
chain black chain link fence to kind of hide it as much as possible, but it it should be fenced for safety reasons. >> No, I understand that. I mean it just sounds that sounds pretty ugly. Um and it does not sound very
ecological. Uh so I mean I don't I I have no idea what are the most uh effective ways to in you know include hedging and you know to to to do that kind of thing. But I mean it's just I mean it it's it's sounding it's sounding
pretty it's sounding pretty spare. So I have the landscape plan up. You can see we do have some trees proposed around the bio retention basin and within it. Um we what we can do is
provide some additional trees um between the parking the parking lot and the the the bio retention basin on the burm um which will certainly soften the effect of any of fencing. I think that's a good idea with um you
know making sure they're native species and I and I understand the rationale for fence. I would say it's really important to have a gate >> in the fence because people obviously need to access it and you know regular maintenance but also students and
teachers might want to sometimes go in there and >> yeah there's a lot of loose balls around and there's it's pretty easy to imagine balls >> getting kicked. >> Oh yeah, >> that's I mean that field is littered with >> with balls and
you know there's kids kicking balls, playing balls, throwing frisbes, whatever. You know, there's a lot of stuff. There's a lot of aerial stuff. I have a soccer ball on the roof of the gym. Not that I'm bitter about that. >> How long there?
>> It's been there since you were a student. >> It's been It's been some time and it's really made me want to revisit my teenage years of sneaking onto the roof of the school. >> Haven't done it. School people. that that will not make it into the
minutes. >> Yep. >> I'm not concerned, >> Mr. Leco. Is that it, Nat? Or >> that's it. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to verify. Is that fence shown on any of these plans?
>> It is not. No. >> We can certainly go over it with you when when we have a final design plan. Essentially, it's going to surround there's going to be fences around all of the bio retention basins. >> Okay. So, the board should be aware of
that. Um, is that going to affect any of the existing trees or or anything else that we're seeing here? >> No. >> No. Okay. And, you know, I hate to ask it this way, but are there any other things that are being proposed that
we're not seeing in what was submitted? Um, no, not that I'm aware of. >> Okay. >> Okay. Thanks. The question needed to be asked. Um, uh, Mr. Cohen.
>> Yeah. I just want to uh underscore the importance of getting some trees in between the buyer retention and the parking lot because I think you did represent earlier that there would be trees that would be helping to shade and
mitigate the heat island effect that would be caused by not having any, you know, um grass islands in the parking lot itself. So, right now I'm I'm not seeing shade trees and it would be
important to get some in there. Um, so, uh, is it within our jurisdiction to suggest a certain number or is this something you could work out to the satisfaction of, um, the planning engineering
department and the municipal arborist? Is that the right way to handle this? Because there's, you know, there's three trees and there's 12 trees. I mean, I I'd rather not be prescriptive about it right here, but I do want to make
sure it's sufficient to address the concerns that I think legitimately Mr. both Mr. Cohen and Mr. Bodheimer have raised. >> I mean, I I would like to suggest that our ordinance does
uh stipulate a quantity of of islands within a parking area. And what we're saying is you don't have to do the islands, but I think the number of islands that would be required by our ordinance would be the appropriate
number of trees uh adjacent to the parking. If that's acceptable to people, I think that's a good way to quantify it. Um, I, you know, I honestly don't know, David, because I don't know how, you
know, maybe that's two islands and I feel like enough and >> I think it's like one per 10 uh parking spaces. I think >> maybe Jim knows. Um, >> so we're maybe or something like that.
>> One per 10. Yeah. And how many uh parking spots are in this lot? Sorry, I don't know that off the top of my head. Is it like >> I think we're actually proposing additional 21 parking stalls.
>> So that would equate to two trees. >> Yeah, I feel like that is insufficient. Um, you know, I along the edge of that of that parking lot, I feel like, you know, at least four shade trees, you know, so that that's why I'm
suggesting that >> um >> well, they also have to arrive on something that because they need to be, you know, there needs to be room for them. they need to be compatible with the site and all of that stuff, but um uh you know, if you could work with with
the you know, municipal staff to come to something that's acceptable to everybody, then >> um that would work for me. Mr. Leusa, >> thank you, Madam Chair. I just wanted to mention that um Sustainable Princeton just helped the district secure a grant
um for for new trees and we will have 92 going in districtwide. Uh so I don't of course have the specifications and the and the the knowledge about which ones would be best at this site or provide the most shade or fit. Um but we certainly can engage and try to make
sure that we are um pushing and allocating as many trees as we can. uh to Littlebrook and in this area to help out and I'm sure sustainable Princeton would be you know game for for giving us some guidance in that regard.
>> Fantastic. Thank you. >> Um Nat. >> Yeah, I just wanted to say I mean it does not seem as if that space between the bio retention basin and the parking lot is designated for anything any other
functional purpose. And it does seem like a an appropriate location for a number of trees. So, it seems like it should not be difficult to to make that a wooded edge of of that uh
of that southern boundary of the parking lot. So, I mean >> people will compete for those spots. That's for sure. >> That is true. >> That is really true. That that is really true. That would be that is going to be an a parking amenity. >> Yeah.
>> On the south end of that lot. >> Yeah. >> I just want to point out that that um that is a burm. This is a slope uh that goes down to the bottom of the bio retention basin. So, we're going to have to put in probably some smaller trees.
They're not going to be um large >> then >> large canopy trees. >> Then you can put in more of them. They don't have to have to be 80 high. >> I don't I don't want you to I don't want you to think we're putting in oak trees along the top of a >> So, put in river birch trees or
something like that. I mean, no. >> But, >> well, and it's also true. I mean, I just, you know, just need to work with the with your landscape architect because oak trees have tap roots that go down many feet and they can actually access water that a lot of other smaller
trees cannot. So just pick the right tree for the site and Taylor Sapidar and and others can you know can be a great help there >> and your own and your own professionals. Um Justin >> yeah madam chair just to be clear to
board members the southern uh edge of the parking lot so the bottom of your screen uh that's actually blacktop down there. Um so I don't think any trees are going there. We're really talking this eastern edge uh between the lot and >> B. It's really Yeah, it's in here.
>> Okay. All right. And is that black top? Well, it's a What is that? >> That's um That's meant to be outdoor play space. >> It's asphalt.
>> It's there now. That's there now, right? >> It's We're replacing it now. I think there's um there's an existing basketball hoop there. Ah, >> that's there now. >> Well, that could be a very good place for um permeable pavement if you
want to shrink the size of the bio retention basin, but we won't re-engineer it on the fly. Um, okay. Do you have other other questions uh for Miss Kinderdine from board members or staff?
Okay. Are we going to hear next from Mr. Downey? >> Yeah. So, if there's no further questions for Miss Kenderline, I would um let's go to Patrick and ask him to speak to some of the parking comments and and our responses with respect to the site. >> Okay.
>> Absolutely. Thanks, Brandon. Um so similar to the middle school uh we undertook a similar effort here comprised of both uh speaking with the school staff uh and performing our own boots on the ground observations of a typical school day. Um we also submitted a report as part of the Littlebrook
application uh that again summarized uh trip generation and parking demand. Uh starting with the traffic generation again using the Institute of Transportation Engineers rates. Um it's a fairly insignificant change in traffic volumes projected here simply because
the change in uh student count is so much less compared to the middle school. Uh during the highest peak hour only about 11 peak hour trips. So you know one every five minutes or so during a peak hour which is not something we think would be even a perceptible change uh to the surrounding roadways.
Uh similar to the other schools we did identify a number of potential traffic improvements. I have now had the opportunity to review um Diana Stockton's September 18th memo summarizing what the municipality, you know, has agreed to do with regard to those um improvements. So, similar to
what our engineer did on the last application, I'll just briefly summarize what's in this uh memorandum as it relates to this particular school. Um so regarding uh the left turn restriction uh at the driveway that exists today um we identified an opportunity to improve some of the
clarity of the messaging of that. Uh the municipality will install signage to communicate the left turn restriction for vehicles except for school buses during the arrival and dismissal uh periods. And we encourage Princeton public schools uh to equip the parking lot monitors with safety vests in training uh if they are to continue
directing traffic at the school driveways as needed. Certainly, that's something we could agree to comply with. Uh, regarding the parking signage along the frontage of the school, uh, the municipality will review and update the parking signage along the school frontage. Princeton public school
grounds have also been contacted to elevate tree branches, uh, which obscure some of the signage. Again, no problem to comply with that. Uh, enhanced crosswalks, uh, install additional striping to increase the visibility of the crosswalks. Municipality will refresh the pavement striping as needed.
uh install signage to formalize uh short-term parking and queuing during the student dropoff period along the site frontage. The municipality will review and update the parking signage uh along the roadways as needed. Uh and lastly, um you know, south of the site, a little bit off the page here, uh
there's poor sight distance at the horizontal curve in the road. What was for formerly a culde-sac is now a continued roadway where Magnolia Lane curves. Uh the municipality will investigate and consult with the traffic safety committee and infrastructure and operations committee on potential
solutions at this location. Uh and it notes that curve ahead signs uh with advisory speed plaques have been installed by the department of public works. Um so all those are summarized in DA's memo and for the components that would be the school's responsibility. Uh absolutely no issue complying with
those. Uh in terms of parking considering the existing spaces and the 21 additional proposed the total parking supply in the proposed condition is 85 spaces. Uh the peak parking demand we observed was 58 vehicles again midday and with 12
additional staff uh anticipated as the population grows out that would be a projected future demand of 70 which falls you know well within that 85 proposed parking supply. Uh said another way, we expect the parking demand to increase by roughly 12 vehicles uh where
you know 21 additional spaces are proposed. So relative to existing conditions, the parking supply is improving uh relative to the staff count. In terms of bicycle parking, again very good utilization of uh bicycle travel by students uh and likely some staff that
we want to continue to encourage. Again, that minimizes vehicular traffic necessary. So we would again agree uh to the similar conditions to make sure there's an appropriate number and design uh of bicycle parking spaces provided on the final plan. Uh and then again there were comments
related to uh the report and design for this school in the traffic review letter received from the board's consultant. Um again we provided some additional information. Uh I've agreed to some of those recommendations. No issue uh you know complying and satisfying that letter as well.
And again that's all I have. Uh happy to answer any questions. >> Okay. Questions for Miss Kinderdine or Mr. Downey for anyone? Mr. Mr. Cohen? Yeah, I think that there was um something in one of
our staff memos about concerns that signage alone wouldn't be adequate to um stop left turns into the driveway and suggesting cones or I but I am having trouble
imagining even how one would do that. Um so I guess just asking Patrick if you have any thoughts about ways to effectively um prevent left turns into the parking lot. >> Yeah, of course. That's something we did
go over. Um yeah, I think we can just stick on the site plan. I'm not sure where the screen is here, but um the the challenging part is that that left turner restriction is just during the peak hours. So, where on like a a formally, you know, left turn driveway, you might actually build a concrete pork chopshaped island. It's not really an
option available to us in this case. Um, and the temporary measures, cones or barricades, etc. have some, you know, they're not the prettiest things and they also have sort of a maintenance um, daily operational component to them. Uh, which is something we don't exactly want
to put on the school to manage every single day. So, um, we think between the additional messaging uh, and additional conspicuity um, you know, visibility of the staff uh, that help assist direct traffic, I think that would be improved from what it is today. I don't want to
speak for the board's professionals, but my understanding is that was generally found to be acceptable to them as well, but I would defer to them to confirm. Uh, but yeah, we're not looking to add, you know, like a cone daily operation to this. >> Yeah. And I think V I think this was from Victor if and I know he's on the call.
Victor, if do you want to comment? Mr. Anosik, if you're there. There you go. Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm I'm fine with the uh the measures that they they recommended. Um, initially I didn't I didn't know that
there was going to be a guard, a crossing guard at that uh location and that's why I thought just having uh no left turn signs will not stop people from making those turns. But the the school is recommending they're going to
have guards there to direct uh uh nonbosses from making left turn on. So I'm comfortable with that. >> Great. Thank you. and and Madame Chair and um Councilman Cohen, I I was out and witnessed the uh traffic control
operations that take place on a day at a at a normal school day uh in the beginning and uh the I believe Diana's memo mentioned that we want to we're going to get the school district to make sure that their um staff who do direct
traffic at those entrances are properly attired with uh personal protective uh devices. Um it witnessed that they were not wearing vests. However, we did not see any uh
anyone attempt to make a left turn um during school uh drop off in the morning. Um so it it is operating fine. Uh our um traffic safety officer also says that uh um don't don't mess with
perfection basically. Um, the school district does a very good job of managing their traffic in and out of Little Brook School. >> Great. >> That's that's very good to hear from both of you. Thanks.
Um, other questions or comments from board or staff? Okay, seeing none, I know there are um members of the public who have an interest in
addressing the board right now. There are five people with hands raised. Um Judy Coutine, Ian Davies, Joanne Marshall, and um we'll start with those three and then there are two more after that. BP Prince
at Verizon and Andrea Lobo. Right now there are 15 people overall in the attendees area. Um so just to recap, Mr. Mueller will swear each of you in uh ask you to state your first name and spell
your last name and um ask uh if you're willing to share what street you live on. And with that, I will hand things over to Mr. Mueller. And um and Mr. Muller, you're swearing in Judy
Coutin. And if I am mispronouncing her name, she will tell us. >> Can we take down the plan for this? >> Yeah, please do uh take down the plan because we want to be able to see. Thank you. >> Yes, Miss Cen, if you could raise your right hand.
>> Yes. >> Can you activate your camera, please? >> I'm sorry. I'm on my phone. Can you hear me? >> We can. Yes. >> Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm I'm having some connection issues, but I I am raising my hand. >> Okay. >> You swear and affirm that testimony about the case will be the truth.
>> Yes, sir. I do. >> Okay. So, sworn, could if again state your full name, spell your last name, and if it pleases you, uh what street you live on. >> Sure. Thank you. Judy Cutton, Ku Tin, 16 Magnolia Lane, across the street from the school.
>> Thank you. >> Thank you. Um uh I appreciate the the moments. Um, I want to echo what Nat was saying about the bio retention site. I'm actually very concerned about safety for kids. Um, even with a 4ft fence, I'm
worried about even, you know, six inches of water, a child can drown. So, I want to um state my concern about that large bio retention pond. That's one point. Uh the second point you mentioned was that the um the the storm water management
for the park new parking area was going to be connected to the current where the current water was going. Could you please explain exactly where that water is going? And the third, I want to make sure that you've taken into consideration the fact that the Harry
Harris'sbrook tributary runs underneath the Little Brook property um near that black top and AC around the edge of the property and that often floods um and especially that front blacktop area that
we were talking about. It's also known as the kindergarten playground which is directly across the street from my house. often floods and I'm wondering what's going to be done to help uh um with that storm water situation. Thank you.
Um the the front Oh, um so as far as the the front, I'm assuming that um can I do you mind if I share my screen? >> That's fine. Yes, fine. Okay. Um,
so I have uh the Littlebrook site up on up on my up on the screen. Um, >> we're not seeing it yet. >> There it is. >> Okay. Um, I'm assuming that Miss Cootin is speaking about this play area in the
corner of the of the lot. I believe that's where the the kindergarten play area is. Um, and there is a plan in place. I believe you guys have already seen this. It's it's already been designed um to reconstruct that
playground area and put in some drainage improvements around it um and put in some some storm water management systems in that corner to address that. That's a different that's a separate project from what we are currently um speaking about.
So um as far as the outfall for this bio retention basin, there is an existing storm sewer outfall in this location which you can better see. Excuse me. Probably on on this plan. So,
it's a it's a little convoluted, but if you can see, there's a 12-in uh reinforced concrete pipe that drains into that tributary into the wetlands that are located along the northern property line of of Littlebrook. Um there's a there's a small rip wrap apron
with an outfall there and our intention is to connect to that same system. So we are u mitigating the peak rate of runoff to that point so that we are reducing it as per the New Jersey storm water management regulations
and we we're just going to continue to drain through that same outfall. Um the idea is to um limit disturbance within the wetlands, the wetlands transition area, limit um the um demo de demolition of trees in that area so we can we don't
have to put in an additional outfall. Um so yes, we are aware of the the tributary back there. We are respecting the wetlands associated with that tributary and we're respecting the transition area associated with those wetlands
>> and Beth reducing reducing the amount of flow actually. >> Yes, we're reducing and not the same. It's it's going to be it's going to be less >> to comply with the very strict stormwater eggs in New Jersey. Mhm.
>> Is the um the bio retention basin um connected through an under drain to that outfall or to that same drainage area? >> Yeah. >> Yes. So the so the rain water from the runoff from the
>> or at least part of the um parking lot >> is going into the rain garden which when it doesn't just immediately absorb the water, you know, through with plant roots or through
uh infiltration, there's an under drain to to take the overflow as they >> correct. Yeah. the um there there should not be any water being held for a long period of time in this in this detention basin. There's very little infiltration
in the soils, but we we are proposing um an under drain below the filt the filter media of the bio retention basin. So, the water should evacuate. >> Yeah. Uh Mr. O'Donnell. Oh, wait. I'm sorry.
Um, well, I see your your hand up, Owen, but we there are still a couple of things that um Miss Cootin raised that we haven't gotten to yet, but what was what was your question? >> Yeah, I was just going to ask about um the kindergarten area uh the kindergarten playground. Is that do I
understand correctly that there's no plan at this point to deal with the the runoff there? That's not part of this project. >> It's a separate project, sir. It it was done it was designed separately as an as a part of another group of projects in
the district. We expect that work to take place next summer. >> Okay. Thank you. >> We've been waiting for regulatory approvals really. That's really what we we have to deal with the DRCC. >> It's not easy. So anyway, next summer we expect that work to take place. >> All right. Thank you.
>> Um so Miss Cootin was concerned about the size of the bio retention basin. Can you just speak to um what governs that um sizing? >> The size is based on um the amount of
runoff running to it. So um we're required to treat all of the runoff from any new or reconstructed pavement on the site. So all of that water has to get directed into the bio retention basin and then essentially the size is based
on the volume of runoff generated by a future um 100year storm event. So the the the NJ doesn't require us to deal with current conditions. They uh have changed the rules so that we actually
have to design for an inflated future um storm event. So, the the basin um in all honesty, I doubt it will ever get entirely full because it's designed for a future um storm event that may never
happen. But because of recent flooding in New Jersey, they changed the rules and we have to design for um a potential storm event that could happen 20 years from now. >> Yes. >> Um so that's what's governing the size. It's um
>> uh we have to design it's essentially like a bathtub. You have to design for the volume of water going into it and then release it at a very slow rate so that it doesn't impact the downstream flooding condition. >> Um except it's not designed like a
bathtub because a bathtub is not a sponge. It's designed like a >> you know I'm sorry the above ground part is designed >> very differently. >> Yes. Um, and how deep is is the basin?
>> Um, I believe this one is about four feet deep. Hold on one second and I will >> Yes. So, the top of the burm is at elevation 102. The bottom is at 99. So, it's it's three feet deep.
>> Okay. Um All right. Thank you. Um, we have we did have other people whose hands were raised. Joanne Marshall or maybe you've already brought someone over. Is that
>> Mr. Davies would be next? >> Mr. Davies. Ian Davies. Can you activate your camera, sir? >> I can. It's not very pretty. I'm in Ireland right now. So So it's currently 2:25 a.m. in the morning. So I'm trying to
>> Yes. So public meetings should be public, but it's 2:25 in the morning, so I'm in Ireland. I live on Broadville Drive, so I have at least four concerns, but I'll try. >> Mr. Davies, I'm sorry. I'm so sorry to interrupt. I know it's >> If you could raise your right hand.
>> Super late, but you need to be sworn in. So, Mr. Miller, if >> you can raise Do you swear if you raise your right hand? >> I can raise my right hand. Yeah. >> Okay. Do you swear or affirm that testimony about to give be the truth? >> I do. and Davies D-aves Broadripple
Drive. >> Thank you. Go right ahead. >> So, um I have at least four concerns. I'll try and be succinct on all four of the concerns because I think other residents in the area may bring them up. The first one, I think, is around the storm water management. It's a little
bit uncongruent that we have a nature trail at the back end of that parking lot that we teach children about nature and the wastewater wetland management and then we build in a pond to basically control wetland or water management in
the area because we can't control the water because we're building more impervious coverage. So I think it's really in congruous that we have a little Brook school with a nature trail that will put a water management pond right next to the nature trail that actually has been there to actually
teach kids about wastewater management and natural water wastewater management. So I think that's the first part. I don't think the current conditions there I think you guys you guys is a very porative term but I think you need to walk the area and see what happens
during flooding in that area. It currently floods and it floods quite consistently when whenever we have water. It's not a hundredyear storm. It's not a 20-year storm. We can have this flood in um probably every couple of months in a heavy rainwater storm in
New Jersey. And so I'm a little bit concerned about the wastewater management and actually having to build a pond with a retention basin and then the fencing that's been mentioned around it when we actually have instructional students walking past on a wet water
management area that we said is naturally managed for wet water. So just take that under advisement. I think that part the other part is the parking part. Uh the the other point I would like to raise is around parking. We currently deal with excessive parking in the
neighborhood because the park is parking is insufficient. We routinely have people two or three cars parked outside our house from the current parking. So I don't I don't feel the current assessment that there will be adequate parking at peak time with the expansion
to cope with the additional um parking requirements because we currently don't meet it and we're probably way below where we need to be right now in the neighborhoods on Magnolia and on Broadwood Drive. there are staff
there are staff um already parking on those streets daily and so we're I don't think that the assessment actually lines up with where we need to be. So I think that assessment for parking is is inadequate and doesn't represent the state of the fact on the ground right
now or where we need to be in the future. Personally, I don't think we actually need more parking at the school. We need a better management system for why we have less people driving in the neighborhood to get to the school, whether that's staff, students, or anywhere else. I think we need to actually address the amount of
traffic in the neighborhood and we don't need to be providing more parking. We need to find a better way of getting staff, students, anyone else going to the school into that neighborhood. Um so that that part is around the parking place but I think the current plan doesn't represent the
state of the ground right now because we have uh certainly excessive parking on Broadripple. We have excessive parking at Magnolia and those aren't students those are staff cars right now. So I don't think the the new plan will address that.
And then I have uh two other plans that I I wanted to come up with. We currently >> Mr. Davies you're you're past um your time. Did you get to your fourth? >> Yeah, I have three and four. I have three and four. One is around noise that we currently deal with noise from the
school and I want to make sure that we deal with an adequate noise mitigation plan for any of HVAC units on the school because we're we're certainly in excess of the current residential requirements in the area and I think we're getting much more to an industrial zone. And the
third one is lighting and I think this comes to the parking. We need to make sure if there's additional parking that the parking is is lit to support school activities during the day and is not lit to support school activities during the evening or weekend so that we don't have
excessive >> um so noise pollution was the first one and then light pollution is the second one that we need a a plan to mitigate that. >> Okay. All right. Thank you for your comments. Um, thank you for staying up so late and um
um letting us know how what you think and how you feel. So um um Miss Kenderdine and um Mr. uh Downey, would you like to address the the points that Mr. Davies made?
>> Well, I can I can speak to the storm water management bio retention basin. Um it's required by law for me to put in green infrastructure um to to mitigate the peak rate of
runoff storm water from a project site. So um while I understand that there's a nature trail right next to it, um I'm I'm required by law to put in something to mitigate the storm water coming off of the new pavement that we're putting
in. Um uh I believe as well as far as lighting is concerned um I believe we already addressed that we're just planning on putting in the minimum amount of lighting required for the parking lot. Um and uh as far as noise, I'm afraid
I'm I'm not wellversed enough to address that. Um, I think maybe George might be able to to address what noise mitigation is being proposed as part of the the new building additions. Um, and I will let Patrick address the question on parking.
>> Okay, great. Mr. Duthy, >> thinking off the top of my head, I I believe there's only one new unit being provided. It's a smaller package unit. It's above the music room which is on the back of the building. Uh those units we specify are typically equipped with
noise reduction packages. Uh but it is mounted on the roof. It is a smaller unit. It's not a large unit for the single music room edition. Uh and uh you know there obviously will be you know some noise generated by that unit. Uh
but it is on the back. Um and you can provide that um uh the decibel numbers to to staff so that we make sure that collectively we're not um exceeding
uh state or municipal noise ordinance. >> Sure. Oh yeah. We can the engineers provide noise data fan curves and things for that for that unit. Sure. Oh yeah. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Um and um Mr. Downey as to the insufficiency of parking. Can you speak
to that again? >> Yes, absolutely. So, in terms of any um I guess we'll call it overflow parking that might be rippling to the adjacent roadways right now. I think as part of this project that would be reduced. Um as I mentioned before, with the additional growth, up to 12 additional
staff are anticipated, whereas over 20 additional spaces are being added. So even if every single one of the new staff brought their own vehicle, there's still a surplus of parking being added on site that doesn't exist today. So to the extent that there is overflow, that should be reduced because we have more
capacity to pull that activity off of the streets and onto the site compared to existing condition. >> And and Patrick, I think it's safe to say a lot of the traffic that's generated um is due to pickup and well drop off, but especially pickup with the queueing of the cars as they wait for
the children to come out. Right. >> Certainly. Yeah. If you're driving by and you see, you know, a lot of cars in the area during those peak times, by and large, those are associated with the parent activity. Um, but yeah, the static parking of vehicles, you know, on an all day daily basis, that should be reduced as part of the application.
>> Yeah, we should have a reduction. Yeah. Um and I just want to say although it's not my job to make a case you know on behalf of the application at this point especially um bio retention basins are nature-based storm water management.
That is a huge change that the state required with rule changes a few years ago and has beefed up um since then to raise the standard further. And as Miss Kendradine uh said, you know, look forward at um
rain event intensity anticipated as a result of climate change, which is a big big deal. And so even though there's a nature trail nearby, this facility is also a valuable teaching tool for how you manage storm water in a way where
infiltration happens. Plants take up a giant amount of water and uh if you really have just a monster event, then you've got overflow that goes uh you know into um a catchment area.
Anyway, it's it's a whole lot better situation than it used to be. It is nature-based and um uh you know, that's all I have to say about that. So, we have up next um Joanne Marshall and then Ian Davies.
>> No, Ian's already spoken. He >> Oh, I'm so sorry. It's it's uh it's only um 9:36 here. It's 2:36 there. Um, Miss Marshall, welcome. Um, Mr. Mueller, Miss
Marshall has her hand up already. >> Joanne Marshall. J O A N. >> Swear or affirm. >> M A R S H A >> swear affirmable drive. >> Miss Marshall, he Mr. Mueller is needs >> swear or >> he says before you say what you said.
>> It's the truth. >> Yes, I swear. >> Okay. >> Sorry. >> That's right. If you can give your name again and the uh street. Joanne Marshall, Broadripple Drive. Um, okay. So, I'm not sure if many of you people have actually gone and walked this
neighborhood and this area. I'm quite offended by some of the things you have said. I live on Broadripple Drive. The end of my yard is pretty much going to be 100 ft from where the end of that
parking lot is going to be. I do not appreciate the way the lady dismissed that there is buffering from light and sound and that situation is resolved. Hm. Let's see. About 5 years ago, the Little Brook school uh implemented a new
air conditioner on the roof. I am now finally trying to get some resolve with that. My life has been seriously affected by the noise of that air conditioner that has been on at all hours of the day. Night, 4:00 a.m., 5:00 a.m., 1:00 a.m., 2:00 a.m. Yes, there
are trees there for light mitigation. There are trees there for sound. As any sound engineer knows, like the sound engineer that visited my garden and said it sounded like a small Cessna coming from the school. So, no, I am not completely satisfied about the fact that
you really don't know about the sound is what you said. And you really should know about the sound and how it's going to impact all the people on Broadripple Drive. So, that's the sound, the light, the light. If you had looked at those trees, most of those trees are deciduous
trees. Do you know what deciduous means? It means that in the winter all the leaves fall off. Currently, when I look into my yard, I see one of the lights shining on the current parking lot. It is not a downward-f facing light as is required by dark nights night
requirements. It is shining towards my back room where next year when I build my new house, it will be shining directly into my bedroom. I would appreciate if these plans are looked at more carefully. You completely missed the point Mr. Davies was making about
the retention bay. Retention bays are environmentally good as you explained just now. However, we would not need that retention bay if we weren't adding more parking spaces. Why are we adding more parking spaces? Because people drive their kids to school. Why aren't
we encouraging a more walkable Princeton? Why aren't we providing more uh uh transportation so that people all in Princeton can treat transport to their schools without having to drive and have their cars on Magnolia Lane on
Broadripple Drive and other lanes with the engines running? You talk about environmental protection. You talk about adding electric charges in the parking lot. What about not having so many cars in the parking lot? What about not having people sitting on the road with
their engines revving and their fumes coming out? Okay, the water issue is an issue. I'm more concerned about the sound and the light. You're throwing your hands in the air and saying, "If we need more light, we're going to talk to PSEG. What rights and power do I have
over PSNG when they come in and put lights on that playground and suddenly my backyard? I bought this house in 1998. It's a split level. There's nothing sexy about it. Do you know why I bought it? Because I came here and right now if I stand out in my backyard or on
my front lawn, the the it is quiet. Well, that's if the air conditioner on the school isn't isn't on. It is quiet. The sky is dark. I can sometimes see stars. If there are lights shining in my backyard, if there is an increased noise on from an air conditioner,
>> okay, >> I will be protesting every night. This is unacceptable. You need to go and you need to walk the site, not sit in your little offices and draw a little draw. >> Miss Marshall, that we we don't need to be >> and I find it very >> If you could just lower lower the
temperature and and um I I think we've heard heard what you have >> because my mental health has been affected. >> I I understand I understand you are really pissed. I I totally get it. I really do get it and I want to >> I don't like I don't like people say
there are trees and that's going to cover up the sound and if that person had come and looked at the trees they would see that the trees the leaves fall off. >> We're going to we're going to stop now and and um address the the points that you've made.
>> And lastly, you do not have meetings at 11:00 at night on a Thursday midweek when people have to go to work. >> We have a stop at 11:00. That is when we start. >> I want to go to bed. I don't want to be up at this time of night. >> I I would like to I'd like for that to
happen, too. Um Okay. So, um I want to address Miss Marshall's um questions. Our next uh um speakers will be BP Prince at Verizon and then Andrea Lobo. So, um,
uh, she talked about, Miss Marshall talked about light intrusion and noise, um, and things that are done to discourage driving and encourage walking and biking. I know that's an important thing
to the school. It's not specific to this application, but I do want to um you know hear what the schools have to say about and what our own professionals have to say about making sure that um
um the lights are dark sky compli compliant and do not bleed onto um other properties and in particular those that are um of such nuisance to Miss Marshall are are dealt with. And I'd also like to
hear some testimony about um the noise uh on the site now and how much they can expect to add. Um I can speak to the lighting in that uh we can certainly um perform some phototric calculations to see what kind
of spillage is being um caused by the existing lighting. We can certainly address that hopefully with uh house shields or some other uh means of obviously protecting from light spillage. I'm sure the school district
is open to um working with the PSEG or with Miss Marshall to to make sure that she's not being um uh bothered by the lights. >> Yeah, a light is point I was making earlier is that we're not we're not
proposing any new site lighting for this parking area. The intent is to provide the minimum amount of of lighting required for safety reasons for the parking lot. So, um we can certainly take a look at the lighting and make sure that it does not impede neighbors.
>> Well, yes, but that that light is owned by PSEG. Anything gets done to it has to be done by PSEG. We can't correct >> we can measure it, but we can't control. We can reach out to PSEG. We can certainly ask them go and put shielding on that light. I you know, but it's up
to PSEG. I mean ultimately right as far as the noise goes as I testified earlier we are going to get sound data for that unit uh that goes on the music room we will confirm the noise levels that are generated by that unit you know with the noise curves uh and uh we I I don't know
about the other noise issue but wasn't involved in that we can certainly talk to the school district about investigating that but that's not something we were >> Yeah because it may very well be that your new equipment is not as noisy as what exists. Um and so even if it, you
know, adds to the >> um >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. That doesn't mean that it um that that it's okay the way it is. And I and I know that, you know, can't be um solving every problem right here, but if
it is if it is distressing enough um uh on a day-to-day basis when the air conditioner is running to to make somebody that mad, then it really needs to be something that you talk to her about. Um and uh and there may be it may be that the light that is intruding is
not the PSEG light, but some other light that's mounted on the building. It's just important to know exactly what the problem is and do your best to solve it. >> Sure. Great. Certainly. Certainly willing to do that from our perspective as the architect. We're not the, you know, the owners, but yeah, we we will
assist the school district, you know, uh, with the process >> as best as we can. We're not I can't really >> Yeah. >> only control the work that we're doing now on the new work. Uh, and we will use shielded building lights for security purposes. Uh and we'll try to assist
with existing conditions that are there now. Thank you. As we can help if we can assist. Okay. >> Mr. Lassusa, maybe you can speak to the work that's happening to um encourage more walking and biking and less driving. >> I can try. I I before that we'll say
that uh Miss Marshall uh had reached out to the school district earlier this week and our director of maintenance and facilities has been trying to coordinate a meeting with her uh and also take a look at the existing um exhaust fans and
uh HVAC units that are at the at the school to try to uh reduce the noise and determine what you know might be causing excessive noise. So, we of course are willing to um work with George or others or neighbors to try to um reduce the the
impact that we're having in the neighborhood. Um >> thank you so much for that. Thank you. >> You're welcome. And um yes, of course the the district again, not to beat a dead horse, but Sustainable Princeton is uh a great partner of ours and um we try
to uh encourage biking and walking and have all kinds of events to do that and uh educational programs to to promote that. But of course, as you know, we can't control how parents bring their children to school. Um so we do the best we can. Um, and I think that some of the
the spillover issues with traffic uh have to do with events. There's we have a PTO meeting that I'll be at at Littlebrook tomorrow morning. And um I know that I'm not going to be parking in the parking lot because anytime there's an event with uh additional parents and
staff who might be attending beyond the typical uh population there, the spillover is in the street. So, um if anything, this project will help with the spillover, but it won't eliminate at all on particular on days when we have
uh events at the school. >> Okay. Thank you for that. Uh Mr. Cohen, >> is it my turn? >> No, we need to um uh just finish this little conversation and then and then it'll be your turn. I'm sorry to make you wait.
>> It's okay. That's okay. Yeah, I wanted to just make the point that the fact that the existing fixture is a PSEG fixture is not uh divinely determined. Um I assume
that's a a PSEG fixture because it's a less expensive way for the school to provide the needed site lighting. But if we cannot compel PSNG to provide a dark sky compliant and
properly shielded fixture, the schools may have to provide uh privately owned fixtures at their own expense. This is squarely in the criteria of the um conditional use, the the nuisance
factor. And I think that we really need to make clear to the schools um that a solution needs to be found if there's light trespass as um Miss Marshall was asserting
when you investigate you have to fix that. Um and if PSSE and joint G won't fix it for you, you have to fix it some other way. >> Thank you. Um, Miss Prince or maybe that is not your
name. I do not know. >> It is. >> Okay. Mr. Mhler will will swear you in. >> Jerry, can you see BP Prince? >> Let me see >> on your screen. Maybe you can say something. >> Yeah. >> Prince.
>> Uh, hi. >> Oh, yes. I'm sorry. Where's your right hand? >> Uh, yes. Do do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give will be the truth? >> Yes, I do. >> So swear and affirm. Please set your full name, spell your last name, and if
you may give uh give your address. I give you street. >> Barbara Prince, P R I N C. My address is 85 Magnolia Lane. I'm on the corner of Broadripple and Magnolia.
So I have both sides. So one to address >> first name is is Barbara. Barbara. >> Barbara. >> B A R B A R A. >> Thank you. >> Prince like royalty spaghetti and tennis rackets. >> Got it. >> You'd be surprised.
>> You'd be surprised what I get. >> Okay. >> Right ahead. >> Okay. So, I'm right on the corner. Um, one to address what David Cohen was just saying. One of the annoying lights is a school light. It's mounted on the back of the gym. It's bright orange and it is
not it does not protect from the sky. I mean it's like it it blasts. I don't know what the PSG light is, but that's the other thing. The other thing is um I would like to Mrs. Uh, Miss uh, Kenderdine, I I would like the retention
I Well, the way you have the retention pool laid out um, parallel to the parking lot means that you have eliminated the sight line from the building from the parking lot to the
playing field which you've reduced in size and I'm wondering if in fact the retention could be moved horizontally instead of vertically. or east west versus north south as you currently have it. So that's question number one just because it would it
would allow better site visit and I don't know uh Mr. Lassus or Dr. Liss, I'm sure you would know there used to be an afterchool program um at Littlebrook. the Y had it one of their afterchool
programs and they use that field extensively and they have less staffing and therefore reducing that sight line between the the where you're going to re um there used to be the map um where the
basketball fields basketball thing is you're keeping that tarmac. So between that space if you have the retention base in the way you have it it's going to reduce your visibility. The second thing is is that I want to
also point out to you that this the school the way you have it is oriented east west. So if you plant trees between the retention basin and the parking lot it will not shade the trees the cars
after about 10:30 in the morning. So, if you wanted to do a productive trees in the parking lot to reduce the heat, if you could make an a little island of trees between the existing parking lot
and where you're going to extend the parking lot because that way at least some of the trees would have the benefit from noon to 4:00 of getting shade be. But the way you're presenting it now,
you're only gonna accomplish very early in the morning shade only because I know because I'm a big gardener and I'm oriented the same way the school is and so I know this. So you might want to look at that. The school district might
want to look at that. Um and so those are my points. Thank you. >> Thank you. Yeah, it's certainly see your point about the location of those trees. Um, so, uh, I guess the schools, you can
look at the the question of the bright orange light on the back of the gym. That's an important thing to resolve. Thanks, Mr. Lusa. Um, and um, Miss Kendradine, can you speak to the alignment um, and location for the basin?
Um, we can certainly take a look at reorienting the basin if it makes sense um for the school district. Um, I have I have no problem taking a look at that. Um, seeing if it's if it's feasible and it's something that will make the athletic fields more usable and uh safer
for the kids. >> Okay. >> It's more about the volume than about the the orientation of it. So, um, we can certainly take a look at that and see if we can make it work. You know, I don't h
want to suggest something that would make you re doo the whole site design, but if you added um bio retention in the middle of the parking lot to take the runoff from the parking lot into the middle um and have
a bank of trees there and then so that you basically have two bio retention, one in the parking lot accepting some of that runoff and one to the right of the parking lot. then they could both be smaller and you could get shade trees down the middle of the parking lot. Just
a thought. And I know, you know, I know that's a that's a big difference and I don't know how much uh engineering has already gone into um you know the plan. Um but that's another way you know smaller more
distributed basins can sometimes work better than one big one anyway. Um, I could take a look at it, but um, I don't think anything that would be the size of an island would put a big dent in the size of the bio retention basin
that we have designed. Um, so it's >> well I'm talking about an island that would be maybe you know five or six feet wide instead of the typical two feet or something but you know big enough to serve both as an island as a place for
trees and as a bio retention basin. Again I'm not you know there's there's pictures of that kind of thing on all the green infrastructure websites if you look at parking lot you know the subset and everything. It's it's
um it's it's done. I'm just I I understand that it's not what you planned and I'm not trying to um you know um throw sand in the gears. I just think that if it's if you if you are willing to entertain that big of a
change that it could it could work just as well or better from a storm water management perspective. >> We'll we'll take it under adisement. >> Something to look at with uh with the the uh engineering staff um uh in the
municipal building, Mr. Mr. PCEL and his colleagues. Um okay. Um let's um I know we Oh, Miss Lobo. Andrea
Lobo is um We don't have anybody before Miss Lobo, do we? Am I right about >> uh No, she was next. >> Okay. Okay. Thanks. Uh thanks, Ian. So, um, uh, Miss Lobo, Jerry Muller will
swear you in to raise your right hand. You >> swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give will be the truth. >> Yes. >> So, affirm. Please state your full name, spell your last name, and if you wish, give your street.
>> Andrea Lobo. L O B O. I live on Magnolia Lane. >> Thank you. Go right ahead. I have princ two principal comments in the documents that are available um online.
There is a document uh labeled layout 2 that describes how um six classrooms will be added to the back of the school.
um near where there is now a like a hard surface like a paved surface and I imagine encroaching into what is currently the the playing field.
Um so these are six classrooms and I also want to refer to the traffic report um that was issued by off by dynamic traffic on
August 5th 2025. In paragraph two of this document, it said, quote, "The expansion is anticipated to accommodate up to 10 to 12 additional staff members and 1515
additional students. So are am I to understand that the plan is to build according to this layout number two six classrooms to accommodate 15 students.
Uh furthermore in the traffic report in order to accommodate this 15 students um on page three table one the anticipation
um is that the net increase will be let's say in the morning five trips in so six sorry six trips in and five trips out. That means that the
additional traffic anticipated by this report for six classrooms worth of students is five parents dropping kids and leaving the school.
That seems to me very unintuitive. And I am a professor of computer science, definitely not a traffic expert, but I would like somebody to put some intuitive common
sense into this, please. Uh because it doesn't make sense to me. That's my first issue. Um, I appreciate the observation of the traffic expert that uh the turn from
Littlebrook to Magnolia is very dangerous. No, those are not his words, those are mine. And as we have more than a hundred students coming into these six classrooms,
the line of parents lining up is going to go around the bend of Magnolia. They're not only going to sit there with their cars on, with their engines on because it's cold in the winter. And so
there has to be a plan. And anytime that there's an activity um like the one that is going to be tomorrow that Dr. Lassusa is pointing out where there are many people, many parents who are going to attend a PTO, a
spring picnic. >> Professor Lobo, um we're a minute past your past your aotted time and I want to make sure that we have time to answer these questions about traffic and about um the capacity issue that you were that you uh
>> so notice that they're very specific comments that I'm bringing up, right? And uh the last comment is I think Barbara Prince's comment about possibly relocating the retention pond is very appropriate. There is a big section of
trees inside the loop where the buses come and so there might be an opportunity to put some retention um area in there. Also, it affects >> Miss Lobo I I I
>> Yes, sorry. One 30 seconds. They're taking so much of the field that is going to change the character of many of the activities that our kids at Littlebrook have traditionally done that will be impossible because there will be
no place to do them. Thank you. >> Thank you. Thanks. And sorry to cut you off that way. Um, so, um, I guess Mr. Lassusa, do you want to speak to the
to the need for the six classrooms? Now, I want to be clear that what the schools are planning to do in terms of numbers of classrooms added in capacity and all has been approved by the voters. It is not what we're here um
to um make decisions about tonight, but if you could just very quickly talk about the um what what's happening in those six classrooms and the need for them and then let's talk about um uh the traffic
uh question that she raised. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. Well, I can say definitively that six classrooms will not um be built for 15 students. We we 15 students perhaps might go into one classroom uh on the on the low side, but
um as you mentioned the the the planning process for the referendum uh was comprehensive and thorough. There was a tremendous amount of due diligence done by the board of education involving demographers
uh and others. I wasn't here for all of that, so I don't want to um be presumptuous or or comment on the exact numbers of classrooms and how we arrived at at those. But I can say that there's pressure across the district in all of
the elementary settings and uh there is a lot of transportation and busing happening now because there are imbalances in uh some of our elementary schools at certain grade levels. So the the the the addition of classrooms both at community park and at Littlebrook
will help the district overall and overall we're hopeful that we will re actually reduce the amount of traffic that's going back and forth between buildings because there are pressures right now that can't be accommodated in all the schools. So, I guess I would just say there's a tremendous amount
available on our website about all of the planning and all of the thought that went into the referendum to begin with uh back in January and uh certainly we wouldn't uh accommodate only 15 students in six classrooms at Littlebrook.
>> Yeah, thank you for that. Uh Mr. Downey, do you want to speak to the um traffic circulation and congestion questions? >> Sure. Um so as it relates to the traffic projections um my understanding at the onset of this was you know there might be some other reallocation of students
within the the classrooms that the net increase was anticipated to be 15 and that's where those numbers come from. Um in terms of the second part of the question regarding it not necessarily being a onetoone ratio of students to trips. Um that's really because the trips we're speaking about are those
that occur number one by vehicle not not including um you know walkers or mode sharing by uh riders of the bus. Uh but also because it's only just within the single peak hour of the adjacent roadways. So um while there there might be additional trips in the morning
period overall we we look at an individual peak hour um and the trips that occur within that. So that's partially why it's not onetoone. Um in terms of you know queuing on the street that's really it's essentially what occurs today. Um you know certainly
during event traffic uh items those are peak days not representative of typical conditions. Uh but that's the reality of having the school there today and in the future is that they need to hold events um you know parent teacher conferences etc. um that that wouldn't really be changing as part of this application
that exists now. >> Right. Any other comments from any of your witnesses, Mr. Croker or Mr. Lusa? Anything else? Okay. >> I don't believe so. I just
>> my understanding I think part of part of the reason to add um the classrooms was for smaller class sizes as well and to you know different allocations of students. it wasn't for this big, you know, influx of I heard like a hundred thrown around. I just wanted to to
mention that, but um no, I I don't um not at this time. I I don't believe unless the board has any other questions. >> All right. Thanks, Mr. Leco. >> Uh Mr. Croker, uh did I hear before from one of the professionals that you're adding a music room? Uh which I know has
been a hot topic uh here uh at Littlebrook. I know maybe some of these specialized rooms uh were removed and now will some of these six classrooms be used for those specialized subjects. >> Um I think I heard Mr. Duthy mention that. I'm not sure if uh if that's a new
room or or existing, but um would ask if he could clarify. I >> you're asking about the music room. >> Yeah, I believe that was >> behind the cafeteria. That's a new addition. >> Correct. That's the 1800 foot edition. That's a music room and a corer and a connecting corer. Mhm. So, some of these rooms are not a new class of students.
It's students in another classroom are going to this music room instead of having the music teacher come to them and different kind of specialized things like that. >> One of the problems of Little Brook is utilization and and and to relieve the pressure of the utilization issues at
Littlebrook, full-size classrooms are needed where smaller spaces are being used now for, >> you know, larger groups of kids. So it's to equalize the space, the utilization of the space in addition to, >> you know, moving the, you know, having
to stop busing the kids and things like that, moving things around. So, so you know what, it's it's an idea of of of u, you know, just relieving pressures that exist already on top of the fact that there is growth coming and and as uh uh Mr. Lusa said earlier, this information
is available on the district's website. It was a very defined and def definite process and a lot of iterations and a lot of data is out there about this and how we got here today. Yeah. >> Thank you. Including the long-range facilities plan that this board saw um
last year as well. >> Yeah. Yes, absolutely. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Thanks. Um so there are no other hands raised in the attendees room. Um there are 14 people there now. So, I'll close the public comment portion of this
application. Invite any final comments um from board members uh comments or questions. Um Mr. O Mr. Owen, Mr. O'Donnell. >> Okay. Um one thing that we really
haven't resolved and I don't know if we will uh at this meeting is the need for access to the uh bio retention center versus safety. uh you know I I don't know what the what
the answer to this is. Uh you know will there be you know if a ball goes over the fence the 4oot fence and lands in the bio retention center you know should should the child be able to go in and fetch it out or uh should it just have
to stay there? It's a it's a question I'm just kind of throwing out there to see um and and the need and also the need for access to it for uh education purposes. Um you know,
you know, I don't I don't exactly know what the question is >> and and for maintenance. I mean, no, there does >> well obviously for maintenance >> there definitely needs to be an access point. Um, and you may not want kids going in there for their um, soccer balls, but I guarantee you they will.
>> There will be an access gate. So, it if if a ball flies into the the bio retention basin area, it can be retrieved and obviously there they'll the the gates will be wide enough uh to get maintenance equipment into the into the bio retention basin so it can be
maintained. I'll I'll just add too just from a district perspective. I mean part of our responsibility is supervising children appropriately and we have driveways and streets. J Johnson Park is across the street from a a a brook or a stream uh
or river whatever body of water is the proper one to use that floods on occasion. Um so at least during the school day it's our responsibility to have adults present who are supervising children appropriately. that would apply to a bio retention basin. And no,
students should not be hopping the fence or unlocking the gate to go get a ball. They should be supervised by an adult and get assistance from an adult who can do that for them. And that's something that we will have to work on. Uh, of course, anywhere we we put these.
>> Mr. Liz, will the gate be locked then? Beth, what what is the typical installation that you do? >> Okay. >> Yes, the that it'll probably be a double swing gate um a 10 or 12 foot wide opening so they can get mowing equipment
in there and it will be locked. Um so school personnel will have the keys, but it'll it'll it'll be secured at all times. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Um other other questions from board members.
Should we go over the um what would be in a resolution and and conditions? Have we have we addressed everything that was in um Miss Stockton's memo? Jim, is there anything
uh Mr. PCEL that you'd like to flag that? >> No, Mr. Downey covered uh each of the one of ones of the comments that was in that memo. >> Right. Good. >> Y >> Okay. Um Okay. So, um
I don't know what the wording is, but we put in we put uh reference in the um resolution to uh reviewing and resolving the problem of light intrusion
and um and um you know in some way a a study or attempt to address uh noise complaints as well. What else and the the um
specific additional comments in the memo? >> Louise, while you're looking for that, I just want to check with Jerry. You know, I would like to see a condition relating to the light um
spill and the noise that would require the school to address pre-existing conditions and not just the noise of the new mechanical equipment and new lighting. But I don't know if that's
I mean if that's kosher. So I want to want to get some legal advice to see if we can >> do that. >> I think the board can. >> Okay. and and I haven't noted as as conditions um the photometrics with
respect to the um the lighting um make sure there's no light spillage and that would be presented to the staff and if there is and PSCG is not willing to to take the appropriate steps to deal with it that the school that the schools has
to do it themselves as as you had suggested. >> Right. Right. Um and with respect to the noise, um I just have that they they'll try that they'll get noised out of the staff with respect to the air conditioner over the
music room and we'll try to reduce the noise level from the uh the HVAC's including the that air conditioner. I don't know what else there is. Um >> I don't know. I don't know. We were hearing that there were existing air conditioners other locations that were
quite noisy. Yeah. >> Yeah. And >> and they should be able to identify that if they do in fact meet on site with Ms. Marshall as they've are attempting to do >> and and in terms of trying to reduce the
noise from from the HVAC's and work with staff uh uh in terms of doing so. >> Yeah. And I I believe Mr. Duthy mentioned that the new HBAC equipment either has no a noise reduction package included within it or they're going to
get something to go around it. >> Yeah. And I mean certainly >> that correct Mr. Duthy? >> No, I I I didn't say put anything around. I think I I did say I would talk to the engineer about the inclusion of a noise reduction package on that rooftop
unit for the music room. Yeah. I I think the condition the board's talking about though is it would not only be the air conditioner over the music room, but any any of the other air conditioners also and that um you'll try
to reduce the noise from those HVAC. >> Well, that's not the subject of I mean that that that's something that we're not I'm not even prepared to discuss that that that's not part of this the work that we're submitting here tonight. >> Is that beyond the scope of these applications? beyond the scope of our
>> we're we're agreeing to review them. We're happy to you know to do that >> not as a condition but >> beyond the scope of these applications >> as a as a you know as in the spirit of cooperation but it's beyond you know >> I mean one one of the factors in terms of granting the conditional use is
elimination or is to what extent there are nuisance factors there. So I think the board can appropriately look at all of this and make some conditions to asssure that in fact there won't will not be um these kind of nuisance factors. >> That's correct. For our
>> the jurisdiction is about the new the new addition >> the new work. Yes, that's correct. >> Not just the new I I would say the the existing facility as well. >> But there are existing sites already. It's not not part of the applications
that we're here for. I I guess the point for me would be, you know, if a a new air conditioning, a new mechanical unit went up five years ago without any kind of uh review by the municipality whatsoever
because it was a replacement of an existing unit. And it was done in such a way that created a nuisance that essentially put the conditional the existing conditional use out of compliance with its conditional approval.
That mitigating that since we've learned about it as part of this application would be an appropriate exercise the board's jurisdiction. Um >> well I don't know I don't know if that occurred. I mean, hypothetical, but to
the extent I mean, we we're look, we want to be good neighbors, and I I think you've heard from from our professionals and from um you know, from the administration that that we're trying to do that. We're we're willing to look at these issues. I'm I'm just saying in terms of the the technical scope of the
applications, we're these are three sites that are already pre-existing. They already have school facilities on them. They're already being used for educational uses. We're here because we're in connection with the referendum planning additions, you know,
expansions, and that's the scope of the conditional use approval. >> Well, we we understand all of that, and Mr. Mueller has explained why he thinks that um you know, why why he has a different legal like draws a different legal uh
conclusion based on on his his reading and experience. So um you know and I agree with what Mr. Cohen said. I think we um we you know carefully word a condition that uh expects the schools to
address this uh problem under the um uh nuisance in the nuisance bucket of our jurisdiction and um uh hope that you can uh resolve this with the neighbor Mr. Leco.
>> Yeah. So thank you Madam Chair. Just to follow up and to clarify, are you suggesting if we had a condition similar to the one in the last case regarding a study of the decibb emanating from the HVAC equipment, you would only calculate from the new ones rather than
>> the whole site? >> No. >> No, the whole site. >> I I know that's what we're saying, but based on what I just heard from Mr. Croer, Mr. Croker and Mr. Duthy, is that kind of just as a practical matter how you would And my lights turned out. uh how you would do that.
>> No light spill from just Justin's office. >> I I I mean my recollection for the the comments on the last application were concerning the new the new unit. I thought that was what was discussed because I thought the question was, you know, we were talking about the cold
box and the the generator and and what kind of noise would would be, you know, coming off those. I I thought maybe I misheard but I thought that was the the context in which we were talking about and those would be new you know >> the generator >> additions posed as part of these projects.
>> The generator is not new. >> Yes it is. >> Thought I thought it was new with the with the coal box and I I thought that's why we're talking about the you know either the masonry or acoustic you know screening or vegetative screening >> for the coal box. That's correct.
>> Yeah. Oh, the generator is already existing on site. I thought the generator was new. Also, >> there is an existing generator at the middle school. It's being replaced with a larger generator and being moved to a new location. There is one, right? Yes. >> So, they're both they're both true, Mr.
Muller. There is one, but one, >> right? Yep. Both both correct. >> Yeah. So, um I want to um you know move forward and and uh decide on this particular
resolution um and its conditions. Um I want to repeat that we have a hard stop at 11:00 and we are not going to make it through um the um community park school application in um 30 minutes. So,
we're going to need to um schedule another meeting or put you on an upcoming agenda as soon as we as soon as we possibly can. Um but let's I I um I I don't want the board to think
that, you know, we're going to be here until midnight. I don't think it's fair to any of us panelists, and I don't think that it's fair to the public. So, um, so let's, um, let's put this resolution to bed.
>> And, and if I could ask Justin, excuse me, and Jim, are there any other conditions that we were going to impose with respect to the first the middle school application that we have not talked about that would be appropriate here?
Uh well, did did we mention adding in um the fence that was talked about with the gate, you know, secure fence around >> the bio retention area? >> Yeah. And in fact, that that would be added to the first resolution also because
>> Yes. >> indicated that in fact they're going to do that for all of them. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> And making the parking area EV ready was agreed, too. >> Yeah. And we had also discussed the additional
shade trees um working with staff to get those um around the parking lot. I would say >> around or within but it sounds more likely around. >> Yeah. And do we want to add that they
should at least consider the idea of having now an island between the existing parking lot and the proposed new parking lot and then putting the trees there where it would have much more of a a a heat island mitigation
effect. If I can add my opinion on that, that just that just exacerbates the uh disturbance and would push the parking lot to be larger into the area of the detention basin >> or bio retention basin. Sorry. >> I think
>> it would it would mean shrinking the other one, but but you're right. it. And so I I'm Yeah, I I hope I wasn't out of line by even mentioning that, but if it were much smaller, two much smaller ones. >> I literally sat here tonight just now
trying to lay it out on the plants and it doesn't it doesn't fit. Okay. >> Doesn't fit. >> Okay. >> All right. >> So around not not within in the in the context of a of an island or bio retention um
system. and kind of >> Jim, you're you're still on mute. Jim, you're on mute. Didn't hear it the last >> I'm sorry. I do I do have some ideas on how to increase the uh landscaping. So, um I'm sure uh good
>> the school would be happy to sit and talk about it. >> Talk Beth can get involved and sure absolutely let's talk about it, work on that collaboratively like we have been doing that's great. >> Good. Okay. And I think similarly um with if there are any other options for bio retention within and around the
parking lot if you could work cooperatively with staff on that. >> Okay. >> Those are all the comments I had. >> Thank you. Anything else, Mr. Mhler? >> That's all I have.
>> Okay. Um, given the comments and conditions we've discussed, uh, would someone like to move approval of this conditional use authorization? >> I'm happy to do it.
>> Thank you, Mr. Cohen. >> Who who said Thank you, Nat. Seconded by Mr. Bodheimer. Um Justin, would you call the role, please? >> We'll do. Uh Mr. Bodingheimer,
>> yes. >> Miss Capazolei, >> yes. >> Councilman Cohen, >> yes. >> Mr. McGawen, >> yes. >> Mr. O'Donnell. >> On mute. >> Sorry. Yes.
>> Miss Pearlmutter. Yes, >> Mr. Taylor. >> Yes, >> Miss Wilson Anderson. >> Yes. >> And Chair Wilson. >> Yes. >> Motion carries. >> Thank you very much. Um I am sorry that
we didn't get through all three of these tonight. I know that everyone had hoped to and um uh I it's just not feasible. So um Mr. Leco, can you um I wouldn't expect you to know on the fly
what we could accommodate. >> We actually did we did talk about another date. Yeah. >> Okay. >> I think October 16th was floated as a date. I don't know if that would still be >> Yeah. First I think we're going to have to take jurisdiction uh of that case so
they don't have to renotice. >> Good. Thank you for that. >> If you could announce that would be great. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> with respect to the community park school um application proof of public publication and service uh are proper
and the board has jurisdiction. >> Yep. Thanks. And then so we had previously discussed with the schools October 16th having a special meeting. Um if that still works for the schools then then great. We'll pencil that in and we'll do everything we need to do for the special meeting. Um there will
be no future noticing. Uh the other option uh and this would be a bit of a gamble would be October 9th where we have a university application. Um we could potentially put that on second since the university's already noticed.
Uh you run the risk of sitting around for three hours and then figuring out >> Yeah, let's go with this. not going to hear it. So, >> I think it I think it'd be much better for everybody if and more efficient if we just um put it on the agenda as the
only application on the 16th. >> Got it. So, that'll be carried to the 16th. There'll be no uh future noticing uh for that one. >> Good. Okay. >> Um well, thanks again everyone. Um Mr. Cohen,
>> I was just going to ask if the schools could help Mr. Bodheimer get back his soccer ball. That would be another informal condition. That >> I actually wrote that down on my notepad as >> Wait a second. I'll write that as a
condition. >> And and here I thought you were going to move that we adjourn. >> I'm going to do that now. Second. All in favor? I. >> Thank you everyone. Thanks again and we will see you all on the 16th.
>> Thank you. >> See the rest of the board before that. Okay. >> Good night. >> Good night all. >> Good night. Thanks.