thanks welcome to this public meeting of the Princeton Board of Education the board is an elected unpaid group of 10 citizens who set policy and make decisions on educational financial and Personnel matters for the Princeton public schools on behalf of all residents we're always pleased when members of the community attend our meetings the board and the school district operate under applicable New Jersey Law and under regulations of the New Jersey State Board of Education each meeting includes an opportunity for those attending to comment on items on the publish agenda or other matters interest to them the board reserves the right to limit the time allotted for public participation law limits discussion of individual personnel and confidential matters we hope our meetings provide useful opportunities for communication between the board and the community thank you for attending as required under the open public meeting act and JSA 1046 aten adequate notice was given for calling this meeting it was authorized by the Board of Education and forwarded to the municipal clerk Princeton packet in the Trenton Times on January 6th 2024 it was also distributed to the schools and others on the standard distribution list the board reserves the right to enter into executive session during all meetings of the Board of Education board policy 168 recording devices requires that we inform those attending this in-person meeting that the proceedings are being recorded this meeting is being live streamed the representative of the S district has authorized to vote on such matters that affect S District students or effect the governance of the princ of public schools as more specifically designated in njsa 18a 38.1 sending District votes pertaining to Personnel actions refer to high school Central administrative and districtwide staff only votes otherwise are considered abstentions in the event that mjsa 188 38.1 is amended the law shall take presidence over this bylaw thank you Mr Balden would you please call the RO sure Dy Kendall here Betsy Bago here Beth Baron here Adam be pres Debbie bronfeld here Tomar franceski here Susan caner here Brian McDonald present Rob Christopher here we have a quum thank you Mr Balden um so thank you uh to the members of the audience for attending tonight we're so glad that you're here um and I just wanted to say Dr Foster last night the state of District I think was a resounding success I do to yay and I I really want to thank all of the Educators and community Partners who um set up tables uh I thought it was a wonderful evening to really focus on our strategic goals and also student initiatives and you know clearly uh students are um at the center of what we do um we loved uh the research uh that students were talking about and the um concession stands uh as well as the Princeton High School uh Jazz compost so thank you every one in a particular thanks to Val ol who spearheaded along with Susan M thank you Foster and before we move on with the agenda I'll just say a parent came up to me at the end and said so how's the state of our district and I smiled and they said the state of the district is good y uh and moving on now um we have a very busy meeting tonight and we're going to invite um our architect um to come up and uh provide an on the Lear long-term planning sure thanks George good evening everyone to see everyone again can you all hear me okay yes okay great Matt you're gonna work the okay so anyway I'm here tonight just to kind of give an update of of where we stand today with the uh study we've been doing for the expansion plans and the potential referendum for the Princeton Public Schools so next slide Matt just kind of update you on our agenda and I think some of you may have seen this before but there'll be some new information here potential projects we're going to do an overview we're going to talk about the Middle School additions and renovations to Princeton Middle School uh additions renovations to Community Park Little Brook School we're going to talk about updated cost estimates and where we are today with estimates and then we're going to talk about project schedule next steps and even take a look into some of the construction period as well so that following projects are being considered now addition renovations to Princeton Middle School we have two options to see tonight and I'm going to go ahead and show both of those Community Park Elementary School Little Brook minor renovations to the Princeton High School Tech space still studying that and classroom HVAC improvements at Princeton High School okay so here's option number one is the two-story Edition that I think we've shown earlier we'll go over it again and option number two is new and that's a wraparound two-story Edition which is going to include a new main entrance main office I'll show it to you okay all right so option one may have seen this before in blue two additions in the back of the building that's the fitness cafeteria expansion um and uh aux gy multi-purpose space okay uh along with the cafeteria expansion along with some Renovations we'll talk about those a little bit in the front a two-story Edition okay and this again is the original uh Middle School uh option and the twostory classroom addition in the front we'll talk about what those contain Now we move on to the next slide so left side that's the first floor of the middle school and in the back you'll see uh the new construction which is kind of the cross-hatched area and that will be the cafeteria expansion in purple there Matt's pointing to that's the multi-purpose space and kind of that aquac color behind it uh yep there you go and then those orange areas represent things like toilet room storage spaces mechanical those yellow lines are cars for access to those spaces we have to have access all of those rooms so that is the new addition in the back of the building in the front of the building we have the new addition two stories there's the first floor that's the it relocation from the high school in the front and then in the back we have three classrooms and again you'll see those same orange spaces for toilet rooms and of course the connecting corridors in yellow we have a covered walkway to connect the anex and the pod that's a critical circulation area there so we've looked at that as well so Renovations upper left a music area we're going to go ahead and just open that up remove some walls make two large music rooms out of that to make those spaces more functional for the music program also expanding the cafeteria but we're going to renovate the cafeteria also expand the Food Service element of that we're going to realign the entrance into that area so it coincides with kind of the open common space in the center there and then we're going to have that Carter that's going to connect and we're going to take care of that F the dining room there that's also where we'll be impacted by that Corridor passing through so those are the renovations on the second floor we have the second floor portion of the pot and there we have uh classrooms as well as a new science lab with a preper okay in that right P col there so that is option number one first and second floor for the middle school so let's take a look and see what oh yeah go ahead on the second floor midd school that white that's the roof below that's just the roof up we can't do it's not so that the space that we're adding on we can't fly utilize the two strings oh uh only because of the way that the the square footage just worked out maybe in in the long run we would even that out probably would fine once it was all done I think so that's just how it worked out in the drafting but I think we could we would probably fill that in and just make it one space rather than have that overhanging okay but that's what that white space is yeah sure okay so option number two main office expansion and renovation okay a new secure Ada accessible main entrance which will be closer to while not renovate pod C for district it that's the existing pod and replacement new classroom science and faculty room in the new addition so what does that look like so like before in blue in the back the multi-purpose cafeteria expansion addition is essentially the same has not changed from option number one in the front of the building along WN not Lane you'll see a kind of different addition okay and what we've done there is we've done a wraparound addition we've created a new main office to the left and you'll see there's kind of a new coverage right there and we're going to show you on the plan how uh that affects the entire uh flow through the building and yeah goe to the next next slide it'll be easier to just show everything yeah move on all right there we go you just maybe blow that up yeah so in the back that's essentially the same as option number one in the front what we've done we've created a new addition combination of twostory and single story space now to the left you're going to see kind of that long yellow line that's that's the walkway that we lead up for Walnut on outside there yep there you go what we're going to do right at the end of that is we're going to create a new entrance to the building okay there's going to be security drib there a nice little Lobby a new main office a couple of offices and we're going to attach that right to to the existing main office so we're going to expand the main office considerably uh create a conference room create some additional bathrooms create some faculty space we're going to do a bunch of things with that space it's going to it's going to create a much nicer main entrance to the building much closer to the Street and U I think a a more appropriate um space for the main office in administration okay the other part the two-story part we have some classrooms there we also have some small group rooms what you're going to be seeing there is we're going to be replacing some of the rooms that we're going to be displacing in pod C and you see in the brown there that is what we're proposing to put the district it Department rather than put them in new space we purpose some of the existing space and put the kids in the new space instead for the uh for the programs right so you're going to see a combination of different spaces here that's some of our our replacement spaces for spaces that we're taking over we have on the second floor that same science lab that you have in the first option and also some additional classrooms and that's out I think they're like four new classrooms I have to check double check the numbers but it's something like that we're going to uh make connections on the first and second second floor now on the first floor what's interesting about this concept is we're going to make a wraparound connection so you're gonna be able to go all the way right from pod C right well okay Y and then from pod C you're going to go straight through and then you'll be in a hallway classrooms wrap around to that Lobby and then you will basically connect to the building where the existing main entrances okay now that would make a nice enclosed Courtyard which would be a nice little space Outdoor Learning space for the kids all right so that's option number two uh in a nutshell big nutshell okay question can we ask a quick question sure of course so it perplexed me at the first rendition of this as to why it had to go to the middle school because of all schools it's probably one of the most constrained is there any particular reason why it has to go there and not to any other place sure um what I was Charing with doing is opening trying we had a conversation in one of our meetings about opening up some additional space at the high school so our plan is to repurpose some of the it space in the high school for space that the kids can use there and take some of the space in the middle school and use that for it but not it couldn't it could go to any other school as well right um we'd have to analyze the space I think we would be more spatially challenged than the elementary schools I'm just worried because I know the middle school is really jammed and it's where sort of all of that comes together right and we also we also want it to be Central right both of the people with with the use technology are in the high school with the second most people in the middle school so to the elementary school uses technology as like a secondary yeah and I think looking ahead the district is interested in some redundency trying to create a redundant District Hub okay MDF where they could uh in the future if they needed the flexibility of having you know no way we could put it here or wherever Administration is no again I'm just asking the question because I just know Jason struggles with we would have to renovate part of the uh dilapidated section probably heading that way um not to uh good of a solution yeah have to study that been vacated more than a 10 years now one of the other things about this it department is that has its own entrance you'll be able to basically kind of prime real estate yeah right there yeah well you know right it's it is a compromise I mean it's designs always all compromises right so um and certainly there's multiple ways to do things many times so it's really a matter of just discussing it building consensus and trying to arrive at the most appropriate thank you I had a very similar question which is if in the new iteration using existing classrooms for the for the tech department that is very Central that's sort of in the middle of where the students will be flowing I didn't know if you thought about putting it in another part of the building or if this really does make the most sense from an access perspective I I think that location was chosen for exactly that reason they they have the ability to go in and out and get right out to the street and if they need to go off site to other school locations certainly we could look at other areas of the building whether they'd be more appropriate uh but that was sort of what we settled on as as of today as of today yeah I one one question the new Courtyard are we able to create access to so that the kids could cut through it to get to that up the new cover yes yes uh you could you you would have doors on each on each into that courtyard anyway as a matter of a code requirement for exiting okay so sure from the hallways you could leave the doors unlocked and the kids get cut across yeah it's very nice yes so George and thinking about flexibility which which I appreciate this new design so you're talking about putting the tech spaces into places where we clearly you're currently have classrooms right you wouldn't really renovate too much there we just plan would be that's a great question right thank you for reminding me no our plan would be to use those essentially as they are so if something happens and we do need to recapture a room later on we did talk about possibly just recapturing that room and then Tech could go somewhere it or that portion of it someplace El so you're building some new classrooms you're taking some of the older classrooms kind of repurposing them but in the future should future boards need more space there could be um that flexibility that's that's helpful thank you yeah I'll add because we don't know we think there's a lot of tech space and when the tech moves we talk about in Long Range planning that we might even immediately be able to pick up one extra classroom because they may not need that and what I like about this is they've been talking about having places for parent meetings like IEP meetings and other types of meetings and this gives Jason which is something he's wanted for a long time a place where everyone a team can gather because the conference room is pretty small at PMS right now and IEP meetings right you'll have a security office you'll have an welcoming Lobby right you'll come both ends of the hallway kind of widen right nice area where you can you can wait okay much like like the little broke Community right park had nice little lobbies you'll have a nice Lobby here and and then look out onto that courtyard so it's going to be that would be nice can I ask a question about the um entrance so is the secure vesle that we currently have going to be redundant or it is we have to talk about how we want to repurpose okay but yes I mean maybe it still becomes a security office but you need eyes on the door it'll be like a booth you know like a with a window where there would be somebody all right thank you and that security is near the nurse so if we wanted to create some like storage for the nursing area because more kids will be in the school like we could take over that space and I guess following demographics is there over years you know sorry the last 30 years Princeton the demographics have been going like this so any space that is built I don't know if this is also contingent on Theos next referendum could be reused in some way or create Revenue in the future for the schools I mean what what I'm trying to say is we don't know what's going to happen in 30 years and this is going to be here and hopefully space can maybe the board can thought about could be reused in different ways sure Revenue that direct with with the space in the back with that flexible multi-purpose space that also has the ability to be closed off from the rest of the building and used separately at night weekends to keep people from traveling through the rest of the building so that would be already the beginning I think of that kind of that effort because we do get this we do pay taxpayers money for this it could be used second one is um it's hard to predict the future but again supply chain lack of Parts inflation could you give a six- months estimate well if you someone you know put a gun to your head how would you say things might go well I'm going to say this we are seeing improvements uh in certain materials we're still having delays with things like um hbac equipment uh generators and switch gear they're getting somewhat better but you have to remember they were 12 months before so now we're seeing more like eight months seven months will it improve Again by next year the general consensus is the supply chain problems are going to start to correct themselves as the chip plants that we build those things start to come online we think that with the interest rates know dropping down it's going be a little bit less pressure on your construction economy hopefully we'll see prices start to moderate they're never going to get to where they were before construction prices uh and then you know there's also the labor aspect you know a lot of people left the trades and there were a lot of there's a lot of construction job openings right now so they're working on trying to solve solve that problem a lot of moving Parts aot yeah a lot of moving parts so I wouldn't want to commit to not you not and you'll see when we get to the schedule I didn't mention those those particular things we just should be cognizant of them those are hard to predict sometimes and sometimes you would even find out to the week before that's happened many times I have one more quick question on the first floor I notice that you have the dark green classrooms and then there's the light green now that look like they actually have dividers in the middle so are those spaces that you could use either as a full classroom or you could maybe yes yeah you could small groups small groups teacher prep 800 foot right which are bigger actually than the rooms that it is going to go into and they're uh they can be divided into two 400 rooms great thank you yes okay so Community Park Elementary School and again just a kind of a rehash here so site plan again in blue two additions uh to the right is a is a one story Edition and that is a new gymnasium and um we uh we'll talk talk about what that entails and part part of a library and you'll see some improvements on the site just to kind of get an idea of playgrounds and connectivity this is just a very kind of a rough idea of what that would look like uh and then on the left side there kind of attached to the end of the twostory the newer two story Wing would be another twostory Edition classs in it so anyway to the plan yes so um on the left we have the first floor key to this plan I think is the c cafeteria what's happening in the existing cafeteria as proposed right now the stage would be removed and with that area would be repurposed as additional seating space which is much needed for the lunch periods of community park okay what we're going to do is we're going to construct new a multi-purpose room with a new stage and that's in the green there there you go and again that cross-hatched area that's new construction so we're going to connect across the courtyard at community park and we're going to construct that new gymnasium there and you'll see again yellow that's that's your circulation so we're going to connect one side of the school to the other side of the school we're going to expand the cafeteria and the kitchen and service area as well at community park and they we're going to take the existing gym which is the area right to the right there you go thanks Matt the top portion of that which is the existing gym will become a music room that orange zone is kind of like a storage Zone and also so to create some acoustical isolation and then in purple you're going to see a new library a New Media Center which will also have a smaller addition attached to it to the left the cross-hatched area which will have daylighting and there's going to be some high because it's a high space we're going to put some High lights in in there some high windows in there so we're still get some nice daylight into there and again you'll see the same thing you'll see bathrooms you'll see uh some storage rooms and things like that so that's sort of what's going on on that side of the building now on the left side you see that two-story Wing those are classrooms in green there again the Orange is is uh storage space and mechanical stair Tower we're going to take advantage of the existing elevator when we connect the addition we won't need a new elevator and then down on the uh bottom left portion of the first floor you'll see those are repurposed that's the old library we make that into a classroom we're going to also add some small group rooms additional small group rooms which are much needed there so you can see those kind of B go hatched on the plan so one of those rooms is a classroom you'll be losing when we make the connection so we'll make that a small group room and then on the on the right side again you see the second floor you see those classrooms those three classrooms there again the spaces in Orange and again two more small group grps up there small group rooms and a connection in in in yellow the caror and a stair Tower so that's that's the plan for Community Park really the same plan is is we've had down for a while not not much change to community part okay that little [Music] Brook so here's Little Brook Elementary School and again here's a site plan and to the right you can see a blue that's a single story Edition classrooms and then that small little Edition that blue Edition on the left side that's going to be a music room Edition okay so here's the plan for Little Brook so on that right side again you see in the same color coding the six new classrooms at Littlebrook two new bathrooms as well you'll see an orange there and then you'll see over on the left side in the red pink that red color that's h a new music room again you see that connecting Corridor there we need that to maintain exiting in the building we're going to uh take an existing music room and convert that into a storage space and then we're going to rep renovate some of the rooms which are in the existing CST area right now kind of a maze of rooms we're going to straighten those out and just put individual rooms there individual offices for your specialists in there and the school psychologist and people like that and then on the bottom right hand side um as you can see from the on the upper part of right above where the yellow is those existing rooms kindergartens have small group rooms in front of them we're going to do the same thing we're just going to give you some additional small group space one of the things that came out of uh studying the programs at the schools was the need to have more pullout spaces spaces where kids can be taken in small groups and give specialized instruction so we tried to address that concern here okay so that's a little book yeah um George um some of the parents at little questions about square footage per student yeah I did do that and um I think we have to make a chart yeah which I haven't G to yet but I think it would be even to do that with Riverside and Johnson Park as well just to get an idea of parody you know and what that means uh and I know that Community Park outwardly appears to be bigger and have and it does have more Renovations going on simply because of the existing configuration building but I think when it's all said and done we're going to find there's parody with the different core spaces and even in the amount of classroom space allotted by by by student but uh we we have to finish that exercise I am aware of that yes George I have a question yes too sorry yes um so in the letter the parent some of the parents wrote that the special the small group rooms don't have Windows right and so my my son was at Little Brook and he was in a resource room so you know that school was built the 50s so they didn't know better but we know better now right and I'm just wondering is there a way to incorporate if not Windows Skylight some kind of natural light because it is very you know they are in a box um yeah I just wonder if that's we can we can look into that certainly we could do that all I appreciate that sure thank you we could open maybe some windows into the hallway and bring some light yeah sure and George also the uh cafeteria is going to be renovated right uh yes correct right thank you thanks man yeah we're going to remove that little storage room in the corner there and open up the cafeteria make that bigger the kitchen yeah work on the kitchen got some plans for the kitchen yes Renovations thanks for that and I just you know wanted to point out too that the the planned capacity at CP will still be slightly larger because of the nature of the proposed programming would be you know DLI and traditional so with Community Schools you know with uh cohorts can be quite uneven we see a large cohort every five or six years that is can be 20 to 25% larger than other cohorts so they have to have some additional classes to be able to maintain that traditional programming for those um unplanned for you know larger cohorts so there's a little you know slightly larger uh planned capacity at and that all depends on programming too of course if you have more self-contain and you know fewer children y so there may be some tweaking still to do I question I'm a little Brook parent just one just an easy disparity I guess when you're adding the two new classrooms between Littlebrook why would the CP classrooms be 100 square feet larger than the new Littlebrook classroom so I I did see that question look at that because we needed more prek rooms I think that they 950 foot of prek rooms that's size of like a kindergarten or prek which we give them both the same number but I need to double check all six all the rooms here are 850 the Little Brook at Little Brook they're 850 yeah so the 950 would be kindergart at commity work yes because you have in this building if you can just scroll down M we do have some we have the kindergartens in this room these are 1300 sare ft currently two and there's you can see there's one two and originally was 5300 I guess approximately right square feet that were three were yeah go ahead in general kindergarten rooms are bigger oh because they also have a toilet yes correct um right here and so in I mean is that a state requirement to require yes okay well it's basically required it's it's almost a mandate I mean you can have line of site ask any teacher do they want to have to go on the hall where you're trying to you know educate little guy little is right oh well no I'm essentially a mandate mandate okay it's a and chrisy I want to thank you for bringing that to our attention because there's usually a really good answer and we don't know it but George does so we to check though I adjustments so that everybody there par we do and we still have some some things like that to do go through the utilizations just for the upper grades those fifth and sixth or fourth and fifth graders are big kids right F that yeah doesn't you know it feels very for clroom sizes actually it's okay PR 950 then 850 for the next you know for 1 through three and then 4 to six it's it's 800 square feet and then it's 750 so we try to stick to the guidelines well FPS the facility efficiency standards yeah yeah just to be little book's been renovated a couple times actually um I went there so I remember but compare 2004 to they renovated 2004 2005 what what does the work look like do you have any comment on they made they did work on the um Elementary the uh kindergarten rooms and stuff like that it's oh the rooms that were read you mean your other oh yeah yeah 17 years ago oh yeah yeah we went through all the all the schools yeah they the rooms look good yeah we didn't see any major concerns in the existing classrooms Adam the other thing they did elementaries they made needed a full Square yeah you at one point you couldn't get through right added that addition on this right so that's that is one of the bigger ones they made yeah yep a little more boring thing but storage at Little Brook seems like really tight so I just want to make sure that out of learning spaces and eating spaces and and that was that was true I actually went through because there you know were a lot of questions I went through and charted every space and the current educational spaces are pretty comparable right now between CP and W Brook although it was about at least double about double the storage space at CP compared to W Brook so that you know which luir principal Luis brought up so right that's near the gym that's a good spot for him I think he's yeah it's definitely noticable when you go in the lack of storage space you can feel it yeah and again I don't know if you can do anything about this appar asked me to ask flooding on the field and I guess you can't can you do anything about that we're we're going to be looking at all the sites yeah we have we have a separate plan for that there's actually another project to do take do some remediation of some ponding water at Littlebrook in the last referendum that you did so we're going to be looking at that but we don't want to do that until we look at the big picture and see what you have going on on the rest of the site but that'll be a we're gon to be look at to playgrounds and kind of an integrated effort there great oh okay estimated costs here's a good part all right so all right so this is Middle School option number one now what what is not on the list any longer is the Valley Road Demolition and site development minor site development work you know for the Valley Road okay so what's happened is opt otherwise option one is essentially what we we've shown previously and you can see the cost range there all right so somewhere between 77.7 and 81.7 million that's option one that's the non wraparound version of the Middle School here's option we're still studying the the high school um yeah we've made progress though um we haven't necessarily quite updated but we're not you know the Consulting Engineers are not quite done yet they're making a lot of progress on um looking at the delivery system you know how um Heating and Cooling are delivered at the high school and they are working on that that we don't have that full number in yet and we still have some work to do to look at the tech area Renovations at the high school but that's yeah so here is option number two it's about $7 million difference okay um this is the wraparound portion of the middle school and really that's where essentially the cost difference lies it lies in that in that construction at the middle school and again these numbers are preliminary and there's going to be some additional iterations of these numbers as we refine the plans that we have to do and the site work is a big is is a big uh influence on these on these costs as well all right so that's why you see the notes on there all right George can I ask you a question about um option one option two at the middle school sure bless you um how much more square footage for kids are we getting with option do you have that yet option two so option two I don't have that number in front of me there's the most of the work in option number two is related to um the main office and main entrance right and some additional space we put into the two-story part because we needed to replace some of the rooms that we were taking out for it so okay yeah it doesn't really net out to much additional space other than what you have now different space but right but there new rooms for kids and it's also a better flow right it's a much better flow which is why we're doing the new entrance nicer rooms I think and and you get that new science lab right room so and we thought the sight lines were better for their kids coming in than they would be adding to the front yeah and you have flexibility for the future well I'm just you know because people are going to ask well what are we getting so we're getting a better flow we're getting um because I can tell you I had many IP meetings at the middle school and um they're very small rooms with no windows too um so uh it is Meaningful thank you sure okay so that is option number two so you can see between 85 and 89.5 million which really is actually almost about where we were when we have Valley Road in there a little more it's a little more okay all right anticipated project schedule Valley Road off the table is it yes as I've been told for now for now okay so I just want to talk a little bit about an overview of the schedule and here again you can see in the yellow Bo we have unforeseen conditions there's still a lot of things we haven't figured out yet Agency Reviews those types of things so there are some caveats here but referendum date as planned right now December of 2024 okay uh there potentially be some work that would be done prior to the passage of the referendum in order to kind of get a jump on things and when they say that I'm talking about things like Geotech Services survey Services maybe some uh additional schematic design potentially we'll have to talk about whether that's feasable or not a design regulatory bidding award so what we're planning doing referendum passes we're going to spend until about August of 2025 doing the construction drawings we have to submit those uh construction drawings for various approvals okay we're going to have to do uh some work related to the site that's also going to require some review and approvals from various agencies such as a drcc one of my favorites um so we want to allow enough time for that office of State Controller reviews contracts and all of those things and then we're looking at construction period uh from o for the additions from October of 25 to June of 2027 yes why would you put the referendum forth in December and not November on the normal ballot I think there's more planning because we changed and I'll defer to Matt um but I think there's more because we changed some of the plans there's more work that needs to be done lead time I think what the experts are telling us and by the way one of the folks on our team we have a referend referendum publicity consultant uh they are really recommending and it's not just Princeton all districts stay away from November this year because it's a presidential election it's likely to be controversial and has an effect on voters frame of mind when they enter the when they enter the the voting booth well and and also I I think people will be focused on other things absolutely so December just to me when I first saw that date seems very sneaky why wouldn't you put it on normally why are you trying to sneak it in a month later yeah I I'd almost wait you know another month because it almost seems like you're trying to pull something understood you know in 2018 um we also did the referendum in December and that's just how um it worked out and part of the concern now is the cost um so you know we're very aware of it it went up a lot um so we're aware of it but some of the things you know what George said that's part of it and the other part is that there's still work to be done we're we're permitted to have referendum vote for schools five five times a year there are five months we're allowed to do it November is one December is one September January and March okay so those those five months so you're saying in November there would be a bigger chance of referend we be defeated is that what experts I think December is a good month for a referendum yeah January tends to yeah November would be a bigger chance of referendum to be defeated I'm not talking no I'll tell you what the experts say because I'm not a referendum but the people who are referendum people doing referendums like Laura Bishop they they understand this and and and their feeling is not to do November this year not to do a presidential election year okay that you know it is it's a general election it's not special election December the other months are all special elections but they are committed dates for referenda per the state laws okay stay with November this year I just want to add yeah I and I totally get what you're saying Sue but you know we have been talking about this for a couple years now the price is up there it's it's not set in stone but we're giving as much information as we have when we have it $90 million and um you know when we do put the referendum up again we want to make sure the scope is something the community will support and we want to make sure it passes because what what's the rule if it doesn't pass you have to wait another year or a year so I mean we have to consider all of this and also the kids will continue to come oh absolutely oh I 100% agree and I agree with not doing it in November because the election it just I'm afraid yeah I just know people in this town but if we're telling you now absolutely I think and that might be part plan how to get there okay and that might be part of our our marketing you know just looking at this from a marketing standpoint that might be part of our marketing message this is coming in December and I think you'll find our referendum expert will will be able to help with that question we're not we're not permitted to advocate for the referendum we give the best you know we come up with the best plan that we can and we're as D pointed out we've been trying to do this since initially we were targeting really hard September and it's just proven very difficult for us to get all the work done and thanks to George joining us now we're getting a much better plans and they keep evolving and better and better and so we're trying to really put out the best package we can for the community as soon as we can and I think um you know the sooner the better so yeah I would like to add that when we were in Long Range planning we were talking and that date December could flip into January not that and so giving us that January option which may be because we don't know how long the plans are going to get through which George pointed out and you know we wanted to make sure that it could be that he's giving us a December schedule but it could go into the January and then he would give us a little more dat and I also want to add that you know we're hearing from parents um I think you were at the um the meeting we had at the middle school on a parent rais a question you know George met with that parent um we received um you know a a list of concerns from Little Brook George is reviewing that it takes time and again it just goes back to what we're saying is we want to make sure we get it right this is this is for the community and so we want to make sure that we're reflecting you know what the community wants in this referendum absolutely and I think it's fantastic that we're responding to all of this and making the tweets and adjustments so thank you for that we're we're not done yet we have we have we have more work to do George you're you're you're a Saint George you are thank you for coming back sure sure okay so um oh yeah question so I just was curious the new space is open for use that that would be the classrooms in CP the classrooms in Littlebrook so really the kids can go to put you can put students in seats yes well well well I just yeah we need Swing Swing space right yeah we'll need we'll need some space to put the kids in new space while we do the renovations as well probably not really till December 27 and this is a three-year project after the referendum passes right so when we really have the full capacity that the project is going to be designed for because we'll need some swing space uh during Renovations okay yeah yeah okay and then the last uh slide I think it's the last slide so this really is just kind of some detail of what leading up to a December referendum just to give everyone sort of an idea of all of the work that has to be done one of the things that will be done while all of this is taking place is more of the communications type things and we do have a referendum publicity experts engaged by the district who will be helping us um you know keep getting the message out but there are a lot of steps involved and one of the things we are at the mercy of on this project to get the referendum ready to go in December is the Department of Education they do the review views of the plans we have to have from them permission before we can conduct the referendum so uh we we are placing the timelines on there that we expect and the do we is supposed to take 90 days but in our experience it takes longer than 90 days but we've allowed some extra time in here for the Department of Education but the critical time when we need to be able to say we're going to go ahead and proceed with a referendum from the board of educations point of view will be around July of 2024 when the board has to say okay this is it because then we have to let the clerk of Elections know 60 days in advance of the election which would be on December 10th 2024 that's when the election would be held um George as you continue to refine the plans and come up with the table of comparability um if you do decide um to make some additional refinements or changes at Littlebrook or if you pull the space out over the roof at the middle school how long do you have to do that um is that June or is that is that March well for me I need to be ready by the time I'm I have to submit to the Department of Education with the plan when when you tell us in March we can go ahead we have to we have about a month so April 19th it's around April 19th when I have to know what we're doing yeah for sure so we're a little before that because I need some time to do the actual work but so say the beginning of so we'll be spending a lot of time together in the next two months oh yeah absolutely that's great can can I just ask a clarifying question on the option one option two so what's the timing on that and how are we going to decide which way we're going to go that's the recommendation how we consider it I would I would think by March we want to really be ready to say this is what we're going to do okay uh later in March maybe but the um lrfp amendment has to go in in February right presumably you have to pick before then yeah well for that I you know that's kind of a little bit of a different process but I could kind of I can kind of um put all those rooms in and and then I could I can make an amendment later so I'm not really worried about the lrfp as much okay U I'm more concerned about having the the schematic plans and the cost estimates but we'll be resolving in March so need so George not to add to your very long list of um things to do but I think it would be helpful if um you and your team could just put together some of the advantages of option two at the middle school versus option one we talked about some of them tonight um but you know seeing them on a slide I think would be very helpful because the price difference is a very significant one yeah and one we'll all want to get comfortable with sure on behalf of the taxpayers sure I think a lot of that will also be the second I think we have to remember that we're moving the entrance to a much more serviceable location I think a much more public facing location too which will uh obviously be a benefit I think to everyone to have this visibility right and this kind of uh this important entrance now to the building and we we certainly do that thank you we we'll do option one versus option two sure we'll include those in probably in a future presentation thank you George thank you thank you we appreciate your patience with us happy to be here thank you appreciate all of you thank you now we're moving on you're to Mr to the 2425 budget uh to vote great so our first uh budget presentation you know official um board level budget presentation is pretty top level um we are well underway in forming the budget for the next year um we to talk about our promise strategic plan zerob based budget what that means budget calendar um School tax overview and tax impact uh operating budget um basically looking at where we landed last year and where we're projecting the land with our actual results for this year and then uh we take some questions um this is our promise we promise to prepare all our students to lead lives with joy and purpose as knowledgeable creative and compassionate citizens of the global Society uh we have our strategic planning goals enacted from last year the focus on the early years Wellness inclusion and supports for all opportunity and achievement for all preparation for a meaningful life beyond beyond PPS these are our guiding pillars um zerob based budgeting overview uh zerob based budgeting uh is a continuous process that we uh Implement to rigorously review every dollar that we spend uh we try to start from zero and build up each year as best we can uh and not just add expenses um there are a number of things that make princ Public Schools very unique uh world class University in our backyard we have small schools with comparatively small class sizes we have a large number of student programs and opportunities we have a large number of student Support Services we have a very experienced teaching staff and we have programs that are well well above the state minimum um we also have a high percentage of population navigating poverty uh about 133% um year-to-year on free and reduced launch compared to uh peer districts uh is much higher than in our peer districts and we have a 424 student Charter School in our town uh we also have a a strong commitment to equity uh the budget calendar U it's actually something we're mandated to go over but it's also important just to see where we uh what we do each year we start in early November and uh we send out our information to all our budget managers around the district um they're required to enter their information um into our software um before to break then we come back in January and uh we met with um um most if not all of our budget managers um the superintendent myself um curriculum and instruction HR um my assistant business administrator so we had great meetings with our principles and budget managers um we listened to their concerns um Dr Foster was uh very you know attentive to you know hearing um all our concerns um all their concerns I should say um and then we uh start to look at our top level expenses analyzing um benefits costs um of course Personnel being the biggest driver of our our costs and tonight is our first budget uh Workshop our top level overview so to speak um February 28th uh although they don't post it it's interesting but he will be hopefully giving him he can change it uh but I I doubt he will but it should be on Tuesday February 28th and then by Statute is required to uh give state aid numbers to all the districts in the state to 48 hours later so usually midday on that Thursday um we find out state aid numbers um as you see later most of our um funds are not state aid but and then um like I said March 1 and then March 19th we look to uh have the tenative uh budget adopted which should be usually pretty close to the final budget um it is due by statute on the 20th um which is okay sometimes we have a couple more days in there but basically so we have everything ready to go by that um third week in March um and then April 30th uh will be our scheduled public budget hearing and final budget adoption uh this just shows the well it's the exact same percentages uh each year in this case it doesn't vary a whole lot from year year right but it's the property taxes that the citizens pay um a little bit uh of a here the um the schools typically make up uh a higher percentage in in most of our peer districts across the we're 50% you know 49% um the schools 29% to the county and uh 21% um to the uh Municipal Taxes and then 1% for open space um in both years the percentages are identical um our tax levy is really broken up between mostly we we've tend to focus well we just had a presentation on the capital side so that's where the debt service comes in so I'll just start with that uh The Debt Service Levy for the current uh school year 3.52 million it funds long-term capital projects we get money back from the state for Debt Service Aid um its statutory rate is 40% for all districts but it's pro-rated uh currently at 85% of the 40 which is 34% but that's only if everything that's done meets the um requirements uh you just heard George mentioned about um long range facilities plan and if we uh if we do new space and we can't exhibit to the state that we and it's by very specific state standards that we can't house all our students that we don't have unhoused students then they don't give us money for the uh new additions uh they will give us funding for any Renovations we've typically gotten back uh very close to 34 4% on the last two referendums um 2022 was 34% and then the latest one that we passed in November that the community passed was 31.2 I think um so anyway so uh as of June 30th 23 we had uh 40 point just about $41 million in principle of outstanding debt um but the the main part of our budget is our operating budget on the general fund tax levy um for the 23 24 year is 86 uh just about 86.1 million so as you can see um currently 96% goes to operating 4% is on the capital uh so this is a little more uh up to date with The Debt Service I included here as of December 31st we issue Bonds on December 28th for the no no uh November 7th referendum as you can see so we have a little more debt outstanding um the interest rates were between 2.63 and 34 it was interesting to not because it's obvious it's actually revers because we had an inverted yield curve the shorter term rates were higher than longer term rates it was a 13-year Bond um so you can see our matur there we do weighted average especially on the last one we had certain things that uh would not be lend themselves to 20 years um so we wait that and make sure that we're not paying for something that's going to last 10 years over 20 years to be uh financially responsible um we currently uh our AAA rating was reaffirmed each time we issu that uh bth uh to the range of the rates so when you issue the bonds each year would have a slightly different rate yeah and I was thinking about changing this and putting the the net interest cost so we bid right so we go out the underr is all bed on our bonds they want to have prints in on their books so it's usually very competitive and they come very close at the end to the net interest cost so but this just shows a range of the interest on the various maturities um so our AAA uh Bond rating was reaffirmed each time we issue debt our rating agency moodies has to re-engage with us interview uh with us we use our financial advisor um and so that was refering that was excellent to here um there's not a whole lot of uh of natural AAA uh school districts that Moody does I think do only to uh standard is in course has a few more than that um this is right now what our Pro projected uh net Debt Service so as I spoke briefly about the debt service Aid that we get back so this would factor in um that Debt Service a so it's net Debt Service each year it peaked in recent history uh well probably all long-term history at 6.63 million but the current uh 25 uh looks to be slightly lower than 24 and currently 26 is slightly lower obviously uh this will change depending on what we decide on our previous discussion right now um on that type of of debt we haven't gotten into that we are analyzing with uh I've been working closely with the financial advisor looking at various scenarios um when we're doing that amount of of creation of space we could um very easily go a little longer term on the maturities and be it would still be um uh financially responsible um we've tended to issue 20-year debt but when you're building capacity that a lot of the uh the life of the assets would be easily could be 25 years it could be even 30 years um but this shows that our Debt Service uh is decreasing um this also talks about the different um basically you know the taxes get um collected by the town which is on a calendar year we're on a fiscal year so sometimes it makes things confusing for people U but this just shows the various uh scenarios right now um we're projecting you know at basically a 2% rate um for the uh debt um sorry not the debt service for the general fund tax levy for the current um 25 budget but it's still very early um the actual calendar 2023 uh School tax levy was just under 88 million um but the actual tax rate increased uh a little higher um uh basically uh 1.45% although the assessed valuation um which was rare this year did decrease um because of the University taking uh properties off the tax role based on some um decisions that that were made um but so it made this particular year feel a little higher for the average taxpayer 3.14% effective School tax tax because this that tax was assessed over a a smaller base uh princeon historically is very resilient when it comes to downturns in the economy with our um valuations um typically going up each year even um in recessionary Period which is a a signal of the strength of the community um all these were taken from the 2023 Mercer County ratables um this shows uh basically it puts our general fund tax ly percent inre percentage increase and then it charts our enrollments which uh there was a big drop off there um in Co um you know not tremendous but it looks pretty large on the graph we're trending backwards uh trending back upwards I should say um and the last 2425 is just a projected um enrollment and uh you know we've we've held the tax levy uh you know it goes up and down we're uh allowed to percent basically each year with certain waivers um going backwards we did have some enrollment growth that um allowed us to tax at above 2% and of course uh the state does allow us to pass through health care costs um the only caveat there is it is indexed to their plan which is a self-insured plan so if they don't raise their health insurance premiums which they held flat for four years um and then last year they did increase them then we can't pass that through even if ours go up so it's a little bit of a a hiccup for planning um so we did pass through um a portion of that last year which uh shows in the 3.71% general fund tax levy for the current year I should say 23 24 we're looking forward now for 2425 um this looks at our bank tax cap so if we don't take all of the available waivers that are allowed to us either enrollment or Health Care um and then we we essentially can Bank them for three years um so uh we have uh 50 almost 52,000 which isn't a lot on expiring this year um and we created uh 94,000 almost 95,000 last year uh we didn't use the full health care waiver allowable to us um it should be fairly significant this year too we're just really diving into that now um we don't know um where our rate uh renewals will come we've been analyzing that we had our um insurance brokers in they were in it was it late December right um we've had some trending up of claims um but we're still looking okay but it's always um it's very close to when we actually adopt budget when they give us our actual rate increase so it's you know always a little bit of a dance there um we are insured on our medical premiums but we are self-insured on our our X plan uh the actual uh 2023 general fund revenues as you can see 86% um come from the Princeton tax levy 5% come from cranberry tuition um and then 2% uh or other tuition we we actually collect tuition uh small p from our staff and then Miss's revenues of somewhere around 3/4 of a million each year so most of our 93% of our revenues are I would consider locally uh produced 7% coming from state aid um during the birf of years state aid has has increased um slightly um in our case a lot of that has gone over to the charter school so we've kind of been about flat there um so just BL this up just a little B because all our eyes sits are probably not as good as they were few years ago we chart our we always historically um so when I got here uh we developed a plan where we look back five years and look forward we try to look forward three years but um we always want to look where our actual revenues are you know um we want to keep our fund balances healthy but we're not here to you know put money in the bank we're here to educate our students so you know we try to come close to break even and hopefully put a little away a little money away and the bank for um reserves each year our actual 23 numbers are in this column here um you see the revenues each year um um our adopted budget our estimated actual for this year obvious the tax levy is pretty much set um there's not a lot of fluctu fluctuation on the revenue side for a school district um we were able to um get more funding uh the university um as I mentioned before I take properties off the tax roles and they um uh pass that through um in a payment to us each year um so it's projected to be uh$ 2387 million for 2425 um it's been very helpful in this inflationary time of inflationary pressure and we'll look a little bit more at the expense side um why is that going down from uh the 2.75 yeah so that so what we so the first year that of the University um we did in the budget actually put the full uh 2.25 and the $500,000 um uh number but that $500,000 is we decided because it was targeted for things that are uh related to our strategic planning and we the process now doing our initial report how that money was spent uh we segregate that as a grant so we can track it better um and have more control just because um you know the other money is um unfettered with any restrictions even though you know there's no like they're not restricting how we can use it but we just want to be able to track it better so we're only putting the 500,000 is segregated in our grant fund so where where does that Grant fund um appear on this chart it does not we really don't focus a whole lot on the special revenue or grant funding because Grant funds are are basically matched uh you know revenues uh are match with the expenses they're coming in from uh State sources we have a lot of nonpublic in the community which were required to provide some Services through to them security has been a big one in the last six years technology nursing uh comp compensatory Services a lot of um the Pea is a large brand that's the preschool Grant um so the revenues and expenses offset so we we don't focus on that because um it's funded on outside sources we're more concerned with our operating budget and our capital budget that's not it is because the school launch fund is um technically not in a grant fund but we do receive uh monies back from the federal government and there are a lot of restrictions on the Food Service fund because of that um in this picture yeah we really focus on on the operating budget um during budget season during budget season because how do you match then all the preschool teachers that we pay so there so the expenses are matched with the revenue so the revenue comes in from the state like let's say it's a little it's more than two million two million come in from the state we budget to only spend two million on preet um there's a little bit of the caveat there that the uh there are some hidden Transportation costs a little bit with um prek we are required to match so we're not mandated to educate three and four year olds but with the the state funding program we do have to provide some Transportation so there are a few hidden costs a little bit there some of that were able to absorb within the Grant and some were not and then the state does this other little trick with so although the formula only funds the so the pre- program is we're getting in the Weeds now a little bit but uh just bear with me really quickly um the they formula is funded on the general education students but the program is required to be a um inclusive program so there is requirement for special education children to be uh mixed in with the uh general education students so but then they require us to allocate a little bit in our operating budget for the special education which is totally counterintuitive to me and I I've argued with them about this um but it's a small amount right now it's 70,000 each year they kind of inch it up it's it's it doesn't make any sense to me 70,000 is a teacher um I mean it's a little lower than our average teacher cost but yeah Essen that's a lot of money well because now we're we're up to what are we at n forgive me if I got that wrong she not here no might be watching but essentially by listing them separately the revenue and expenses you're saying if that money doesn't come in those are not things included in our budget otherwise exactly okay so those are things we can't have prek if we don't get state aid for that I mean all of these so this is what we're budgeting that we have to come up with the the money exactly thank for explaining that much better than I did and much quicker CH what's the CPA always the CPA I guess um let me Zoom a little bit here this is the expense side so we really always focus on you know our actual expenses um salaries are are trending up um we're really looking to uh contain our Personnel costs as we move forward um we're um our benefits have been pretty good over the last few years we've done a nice job there um we really and Al there's some charts L on that show this but the first three groups here are um make up uh about 81% of our budget I have that here I'll just jump forward as you can see it's uh I don't have that percentage oh yeah you can see 58 17 and seven so what is that 82% of our uh costs our salaries benefits and Charter School payments um so it's a really high percentage Insurance costs have been trending uh significantly higher you know um anyone's watching and I feel bad for everyone out in California with those floods all so the insurance Market is all over the world interrelated so reinsurance is you know our insurance companies back each other up to cover losses so we all you know absorb that's the whole principle of insurance so unfortunately a lot of the um climate change um things get you know we we all pay a little piece of that um so property and casual rates have been going up all over the world it's putting a little bit of inflationary pressure on our budget um so we track here by our uh maintenance and cons still um we have been trying to fix things um more as you can see over the years so um that does cost money um our student services tuitions uh are inherently I use very technical term Wy I always say that jam makes fun of me but they go up and down we could see here they they were kind of very flat and then um this is the adopted budget I shouldn't even have that column there I'm looking at actual here but then it dropped and then it went up significantly it dropped uh say 700,000 went up 800,000 um this year we're looking it's going to be closer to $5 million so so you know um I would Asain you know they're very hard to control those costs in the shortterm tuitions um students postco you know you can say a lot of a lot of different reasons why um but very hard to control in the short term so we really closely at our expenses um transportation cost as you can see are also another driver if you look at actual 22 to um our estimated actual 24 that's two years um went up an awful lot and if um if you went back to 21 they were at 1.9 to uh about 3.2 so that's $1.3 million um it's a big increase you but in 21 we ask parents not to take the bus like because of covid we I I would yeah I would look really at 1819 yeah yeah still apply no it is but we we know why you know uh 21 uh 20 was the biggest where we didn't actually bust for uh three months we actually got concessions back from right 21 we started a little late we did get a little back you're yeah we start right we as people not yeah we did we had less because we couldn't do it you know the way they really the time perod when we weren't busing we house yeah but and kids were still home I mean for right that's correct yeah didn't even go back um our fund balance we look at our fund balances um that's one question going back the athletic the athletic budget is almost double what was and yet it's gone down past year Athletics what was that movement actual uh $722,000 you go back to 1819 it was 511 well some of that a big chunk of that actually is related to um the pool manager retired so we've contracted out that's the Big Driver there it moved from Personnel to I remember yes so it's actually was there before but it's somewhere in a different line yeah okay P Middle School p we didn't have uh well that was a capital project we used capital reserve funds you're right uh Adam we spent close to a million dollars on the HVAC system but that was out of capital reserve okay um but we do obviously try to keep our pool in good shape Matt is still very War there is is still war in there yeah is um busing for the um Athletics teams in athletics or in transportation um it's in athletics okay because that's also gone up it has significantly it has I mean do we know if it's are there more students participating in sports postco that would be an amazing or or more sports or is it about the same we haven't added too many I mean um you know there's been a push to add uh volleball teams but basically the same U the same basic yeah but it's the transportation actual contracted costs women City and JV usually I don't know exactly now you're testing my knowledge but but we I know like when we were looking for bus drivers and trying to keep bus drivers that that cost one oh and yeah in about 24 month period we went from uh $20 to $31 an hour so and then we also allowed for our bus drivers to have the same benefits as the resting employees which I think was very Equitable and fair I did I think it's important and it helped us to be able to recruit I don't know if I'm allowed to ask a question but it might help to show these numbers on a per student basis on a per capita basis instead of just broad numbers because there's Trends happening but we're here to like everything's allocated to a per student right so yeah there's a great resource out there for people that are really into the analysis of comparing districts but the taxpayer guide to educational spending it does track a lot of the costs and it Compares and it's interesting to look and you'll see some comparisons with some of our peers across the state and there's a lot of differences just in how education is delivered in different towns um what the full it tracks things like uh teacher costs and you'll see some towns that have um super strong uh unions and have higher uh labor cost you know etc etc all these different factors smaller uh school districts the smaller the school district on average as you know Rob could probably test is is higher per pupil costs um in some ways but there's all sorts of caveats to that but I'm saying in our actuals like every year if we said well how much of the to to your point Betsy how is the athletic number getting bigger because there's more kids participating yeah we don't know right well we don't know yeah yeah I could call Brian right now no I mean it's not about that it's about just making sense of the number but even on an overall basis we have the enrollment per year right I mean that's the question is sort of does the trend of the budget follow the correct a good we've talked about tracking cost uh you know student participation in clubs and activities uh closer um and you'd have to pull out charter school because that's gone up a lot but the yeah the charter school is you can see here you know definitely and it again I hate to say it but I like to say it it's lumpy it went up our actual costs uh were actually lower in 22 23 and that's because there was not less students but the waiting were quite different and the the way that the state calculates uh the numbers each year it it just it it's not smooth like it goes from like a 6% increase to a 1% increase then with the waiting benefit in 22 23 it actually decreased our actual expenses and then um our adopted budget we're we're looking at that's a huge number that's like $675,000 increase just year-over-year and that's State mandated right the per pupil cost that we pay Charter State mandated so it's not that necessarily the charter population is increasing the last few years or the number of Princeton students are increasing if that the state is charging more part okay that that's correct and so they get a percentage of our our calculated cost so they essentially the um the higher the cost of educating a student in a particular Town translates to that Charter tuition is is the charter busing in our busing number or in we it's in our busing we're mandated to bust those students because theoretically most of them the vast vast majority I think only about eight kids are not currently prined residents and also the um private school busing there there's some families who live in Princeton who send their children to private school and they they take the public school bus that's also in our transportation yeah we do we do a whole lot of um busing here to um Princeton day hun and uh steuart and sacred art uh fund balance uh we look at the basically I categorize everything uh outside of capital reserve statutorily once we allocate money to capital reserve you can never take it back out unless you're using it for our Capital Improvement um so you don't want to have necessarily too much money in there but anyway our fund balances have been fairly stable um but they are flattening out as you can see um we have been using uh capital reserve we used capital reserve to fund a lot of additional products projects on the additional HVAC um we just talked about the pool hbac system and um shingle roof at the uh High School etc etc etc um our operating budget Broken Out by percentage we just I fast forward earlier 80 uh 2% is salaries benefits uh 75% and that's pretty um static as you can see it doesn't leave a whole lot after um 18% left for everything else you know just to turn the lights on 2% of our budget goes towards our energy costs Transportation um out of District students only 1% for um curriculum instruction number but these are non salary cost so I want those all together um again showing the trend of um salary benefits in Charter over time and uh questions and answers which we took a few already but any other questions comments yes Adam I love it's appropriate time for this and if I get the numbers right but I was told we have a hundred uh students who come with their their parent staff um out of District yeah a little more than 100 yep that's correct Adam so so my feeling was and again just if we're if we're underutilized at a school of space okay but we we are going to we I don't know that at road so has produced what 20 students that's been pretty slow but we don't know where the demographic is going to be and we're building a lot more space why should we have these hundred students come that could be five classrooms well they're spread out across I know the district so it's in theory it's it's it's five classrooms but there we have six schools over 13 grades right K 12 13 grades um so about eight was that eight about eight on average per grade I think it varies from like maybe to seven so it's it's absorbable it's also a collectively bargained item yes yes it's collectively yes it is and um and uh tuitions were raised since I've been here 7500 but 22 what maybe subsidize probably right and the tuition cost as uh was brought up by the audience which was a really good question too it's you know it's always a little bit tricky because it's the marginal cost of one student right versus the ACT you know the average cost so the marginal cost of educating one student is less and and they do pay um for special education costs um and also you know there's a teacher shortage um we're lucky that we have you know we we haven't been as affected as other districts who have to pay bonuses uh signing bonuses to hire teachers um and Princeton's always been more of a community and so we we want our teachers to feel part of the community Matt I have a question overall what's the headline for the year if you had to give it a headline for the budget year what what do you mean now you're just like that's me you're the one okay well so um let me start with that I do really appreciate it you are a for educator I love it um but you mean perspectively looking at planning for the 24 25 budget I think that um you know administratively really focus on controlling um Personnel costs and maintaining uh head count at the current level or you know possibly you know through attrition but that's really the most important thing I mean when you look at our cost 80 U uh 75% personnel and benefits and that and that's not different here than any other school and it's important have you followed um the strike that was in Newton Mass no no so it's very interesting um and bet you here I was gonna say isn't that near where you grew up to be a taxpayer there so uh long story it's a four-year contract and the increase over the four years is somewhere for some staff at 52% wow yeah and they went on strike for 11 days uh it's illegal to strike in Massachusetts uh the like it is here right yes the union incurred half a million dollars in fines yeah no I a question let's say we do get a deficit that then we we get together we have to make cuts that reflect the values of this board basically based on what what kind of student you want to have yeah I think that one of the things about so we were talking just a few slides ago that is important to look at fund balance so we try not to make Draconian decisions and we you know that's why it's so important to track where we came from and where we're going and really have a our finger on the pulse so it is important to recognize when you know Personnel costs are rising faster than you know 3% that we really have to be careful because you know we can only tax so much um and community members also already pay a lot of taxes here so but it's important to know that there is that buffer to be able to you know we we have a buffer right now but it's important to keep that buffer intact so it's a a double-edged short there are kind of two two ways to look at it another that SI effect but I'm very impressed by what you do amazing oh thank you speak very highly well hopefully I mean I try we try hard we try hard thank you I appreciate that tby I you know would be a Miss if I didn't bring up my favorite couple items par G and um school supplies like we can't cut personnel you can't cut the benefits I mean those things we need but there's these lower ones that we just I really really would love us to be able to work with our town and be able to park on the streets around all of our schools so that we don't have to take taxpayer money and pay for parking which we do at the church across wherever across the street and I'll put it out there you know I I'll put it out there yeah whatever it is 2,000 but we negotiated a 30% decrease okay okay why 3500 they used to pay 5,000 yeah I know they did I know they did I know they did um again you know like the school supplies I just you know want to make sure we keep our staff um and I know you know we talk about head head count we also have a lot of students that come in that need full-time AIDS they do and honestly personnel has been really pushing to make sure every Aid has a real spot and if every a and if an aid has half a day then there's somewhere else like we're really working on that but I I know in the high school like they're down a couple AIDS so you know there's places that we can't cut nurses we can't cut we're having trouble keeping them in the daily so there are things that we really should be cutting we're pushing back down um into some of the areas so that we don't cut staff because that that that's not what I will ever vote for I did have a question on the computers so the leasing is four years or five that we did for co uh well you're you're talking about the one to one initiative it expires fiscal 25 So when you say fisal so we have one this budget that we're planning for right now that we're so one more year of payments on the um mostly related to the um the MacBooks Chromebooks and iPads that roll out and is are we thinking or looking at when we replenish that we would do something similar I mean was that a good way for us to being studied right now the um you know it was a very um you know interesting time obviously I don't have to right so it was we're studying now how it's being used what oh no I got that part I was curious about the financing of it well no but I think the most important part of to say what do we need going forward you know we're not just going to take the status quo that no I know that we're leaning towards you know um probably you know maybe not having I mean I don't want to say anything right now but no no I know I was in the committee I was in the committee I'm I was curious more how we're going to more Chromebooks maybe possibly at the middle school would make sense they make them very uh sturdy now there's a lot of breakage with matter when do you think we'll have um an update on technology for the next five years for the next five years well Financial Financial that's what I'm asking well we're definitely looking at it right now because like you're saying we're already looking at that next budget so if we wait too much longer I think the first and foremost is um you know Dr two and her team with Dr guidance are looking at you know how technolog is being used what we think is necessary to move forward and then trying to be as cost efficient and then of course with interest rates higher you know the the leasing costs are are you know got it so one other thing a few months no sooner we just got the technology review which had a I think it was what a three-year plan of of recommendations so some you do no no I'm talking specifically about the was asking the one to one Oh I thought they already made a recommendation that I saw well I'm not going to make promises for my peers you know but definitely in the next you know three to six months the other thing um you know we had everybody had a zoom account because that's how we survived like can we now back off a lot of those subscriptions license whatever they're called we're going to be looking at all yeah that's part ofing at all the and Dr 2's really been focused on that what of the Educational Tools like so many of them are really important and and some of them you know have like four like dedicated users but there's only four people that are really using them then you know be something that we would probably drop okay all right that is a really good point we are looking at that because we don't know need why don't need in the anymore okay thank you we do use zo for our committees uh Matt and Dr poer um so you shared the headline for Princeton Public Schools um you both talked to your colleagues in the county and the state quite a bit and we know that last year last year's budget cycle Robinsville and Monclair both laid off in the neighborhood of 30 um individuals primarily teachers um what are and so many districts around the state are facing the pressures of the 2% tax levy cap and the fact that compensation is Rising by three 4% even higher in some districts um are is it this time of the year that you start hearing about what's going on I'm just wondering if there's a a headline for the state that's a good question it's I think it's hard to answer I um you heard a lot from your peers at Round Table not not Al they are anticipating another difficult year but I think like the governor Murphy's message tends to be when when State a figures come out that that sort of indicates um the future of the next school I know that a lot of our peers have had uh and um board president alluded to you know in Massachusetts have had high contract settlements you know within the state there's been a lot of wage pressure um which is hopefully cooling but then we got you know mixed reports just last week interest rates rose on Friday more than they had um a long time so it's a lot of mixed economic data I think that uh but school districts are definitely um trying to maintain cost Transportation pressures were at across all districts that bus I me there's very few districts that are pure walking districts in the state yeah and that we're actually in a good spot there because we're balanced just about 5050 so that's kind of the idea you don't want too much of your too many of your routs contracted versus inhouse so I think um there's also also been we obviously learned that there's a new uh head of the Department of Education who has a finance background who's and I know that the governor has said they they're really focusing on on funding education public education so I think that's good news we'll see whether they make good on it but I think it's good news that the Department of Education now is starting to be hopefully better better staffed I think one of the things that concerns me and I'm seeing at the Garden State Co Coalition is that there continues to be through the legislature all these new bills that come with these unfunded mandates from the state and one of them being that we have to re rewrite all the new curriculum standards by August and um that requires us to bring people in the summer and pay for all the time and I think that some of the other peer districts are working at you know at the county level to provide evidence to our legislators to say this costs us X number of dollars taxpayer dollars to do these things in such a rush fashion so I do think that there's a lot of pressure on us from the state and the state legislature keeps had brilliant ideas for new programs and new committees and new things requirements that cost us a lot in terms of people don't forget the new change to how you can use C days so right exactly is that on your list so right I these are the intangible things we don't even see on your list that are coming on on you guys and you're having to comply with it so that's it's good for some assemblying person to say I'm doing this yeah they come up with bills that sound great but then it means cost for us so I think that's important I just wanted to also point out I know we talk and operations but sustainability I think the things we've done in The Last 5 Years through sustainable Princeton and that partnership I'm I'm very encouraged and we have a three-year sustainability plan and the idea now that the taxpayers have allowed us to reinforce the roofs and the and the siding and the HVAC systems that are high efficiency and on controls I feel like we have uh our energy costs in in hand and hopefully if we can move forward with solar which I know you said we were going to start looking at this summer um and that would not cost additional taxpayer dollars you know we could bring solar into the mix and hopefully the pricing on that in the larger scheme will help us so I'm yeah I'm excited about that feeling good about that there's not a lot we can control but I think I'm I'm very grateful to you for and to the administration for you know taking that one 15% of the pie and really massaging all those different categories with Debbie's Debbie's on on the parking but thank you thank Youk thank you anyone else well Matt that was a great job thank you um so with that we will now shift over to public comment for our public is there anyone who hasn't said anything that they want to say again I did have a question come to the podium please please state your name uh where you live you don't give me the house number just the street and the town Sue Evans wor SM Lane in Princeton um as we like look at the budget and we look sort of at our plan um we have two people on our payroll I guess that are intro and I know we had said that we were going to start looking at that those searches come the new year I just wanted to know if we've started that process um or what you know if we what our plan was to when we were going to start that well um so we have um yeah we started our HR search okay yeah thank you y anybody else I don't have anything although I had I was receiving some texts from please St your name Street Jessica Vieira Stockton Street from Princeton I don't have anything else thank you for taking the time for my questions that we're sort of more ad hoc um it's very informal when we're the only people here um but I was was getting some text so I wasn't sure if somebody on Zoom if you can open it up to anybody who might be on the call is that normal that you would do that but okay were you shair um so the question was was raised to me I will tell you the question was raised to me when that U when our architecture was going over the plan is that given the increased cost that we've seen an option to at the middle school have we thought about the 56 school again because it's a real question and if we're going to be fair and we've always talked about how operating budgets and whatever like let's really delve into it because I think the community and again this is just me what was being texted to me um the community really would like to make sure we're not doing something very short term instead of um really looking at the longterm forecast I'm you know me and I this is me putting back in my voice I'm always interested in hearing what the demographer has to say and I always want updates on what the demographer is saying because without that I agree Brian we can't forecast like a university can or you know but there's a lot of building going on in this town and we got to figure out how we're going to accommodate those students without jeopardizing the kids who are already here thanks again all your hard work thanks Matt do you just want to um tell folks where we are in the process of updating our demographics uh yeah we are looking at um it once again which is um uh very um attentive by us to really you know typically um demographics are not reviewed annually but we're at a critical point in our planning so we've taken the extra step on re-engaging with the town updating all the plan developments um and so we will be updating um our overall uh demographics within the next few weeks other question would you say that they're going to be adding on to the original estimates that with they building more densely I don't want to speak for the demographer um there you know some differences um I actually don't know overall if they're going to be higher or lower at this point there are some changes in the plan developments there are some delays which make it harder uh with some of the plan developments um you know so yeah and I think also the de demographic reports aren't in exact science so I think you know we're going to try to do the best we can with the information that we have yeah I mean I you know I I don't like to you know uh toot my own hor so to speak but I mean we are we are no we are trying to track our our developments in town and it's helped I think the demographer to be able to say okay this development has created this many students we don't have it unfortunately Brian wanted it down to the household but we weren't able to do that I would have loved that myself actually so I'm only teasing a little bit um we can't do it by the household but we can overall and then you have you know how many of each unit you know how many are affordable Etc so we're tracking that now building a database of information which will help us to plan for the future so we are taking you know steps towards trying to be um you know as accurate as possible but uh the board president is right it it uh demographics are uh hard to predict and once you get out there past five to 10 years it's IAL science I mean what I was getting at relationship with the town because this building is going on to 2027 it could go even further you think you think a your Clarity assessment with the Town Council itself about where they're heading and the number building we've been dealing with the town planner so he's really helpful giving us up toate information um so you know if you're your relationship yes yes yeah we work very well the group the current group of Administrators here and across the street um we were just meeting a week go so you know it's yeah Poli always policy process and Poli yeah I don't I don't bother with politics yeah um just I wanted to talk to address the five6 you know when you add a couple of classrooms on a middle school the operational difference is is substantial for a school first stand one for the 56 so You' got to you know the cafeteria the so the special ad vice principal principal all those things so it it becomes and then even alone the new bill the cost was 100 million just over so really the to the additional swing to make a 56 ever makes sense I mean frankly I don't see how operationally an operational income Capital fund maybe at some point it would make sense to build but operationally I don't I have a very very hard time understanding how it could ever be something that you go afford that would ever make sense that would ever be a sensible thing to do Beyond just kind of adding on to what you currently have that's sorry I understand I hear you I just want you to know that I'm getting texts this evening as I'm here saying thanks for coming and given that that we were just given another alternative for the middle school that raises the cost of that we're proposing people are saying look the community hasn't given up on the 56 and that's what I think you guys just need to hear so I understand I totally get it maybe there's a different way to explain it um maybe showing the numbers on the operating cost and saying look if we you know like the real numbers not just they're higher like by how much um because I think that there are people who are in this for the Long Haul meaning they're got kindergarteners first graders and they're saying look when my kid hits you know I want to make sure there's room and and that my child has the right experience um so that's that's and and we want that too but we also want to make sure that um we plan for the growth in a responsible way and as you know let's say 30% of taxpayers have kids in our schools and and the rest don't and it and as you also know as a homeowner taxes are high here anyone else I think it's helpful thank you and and we have in our public presentations actually gone through in a more granular way the actual operating costs and the types of positions that would needed to be added and I think at some point we will be putting out an FAQ that is clear and and shows that but we definitely have thought about this we've been thinking about this for several years um and I think we've been you know Gathering more and more data that is supporting our decision and I I'm really happy tonight to have the the next option because it just keeps getting refined and refined based on some things we're hearing heing from the public but I think we're getting closer and closer to the right solution for the present anyone else no all right well thank you for your comments and for joining us this evening appreciate it uh so now we're moving on uh to one Personnel item it's a resignation um Brent Ferguson math teacher PHS has submitted his letter for resignation effective April 21st 2024 um we want to thank Mr Ferguson for his service and we wish him all the best in the future um and Mr Bon there is no vote here but I know we have to take a vote so can I get a motion please not the G Brian second Rob D kenel yes bet bag yes Beth Baron yes Adam Beerman yes debie brownfeld yes franceski yes yes Susan canther yes Ryan mcdin Yes Rob Christopher yes motion passes thank you Mr balen um so this is the 6th we have another meeting February and March are busy months so we'll be seeing a lot of each other our next meeting is February 20th um okay um our next meeting is February 20th at uh 7:30 here at Valley Road um I just wanted to moment wish all our families that will be celebrating uh Lunar New Year a very happy Lunar New Year it is a homework for your weekend please let Dr fost to know if uh you get homework um and I know this is also uh I saw you had a post up it's a national counseling week national school counselor week so thank you to all our school counselors uh for taking such good care of our kids in fact that was one of the items that the teachers in Newton um they would not settle the strike until a social worker was put in each school to help deal with some of the issues that were going on in the schools and nurses too didn't have enough nurses y thank you Debbie um and so uh with that can I get a motion to adjourn Debbie second be all in favor good night