WEBVTT

METADATA
Video-Count: 1
Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=F_qgQYhgGoI

NOTE
MEETING SECTIONS:

Part 1 (Video ID: F_qgQYhgGoI):
- 00:00:04: Zoning Board of Adjustment Meeting: Roll Call, Introductions
- 00:01:13: Presentation of the Zoning Board's 2025 Year-End Report
- 00:04:27: Resolution Z24-515: Ridge View Road Approval
- 00:05:41: Endorsement and Approval of the 2025 Year-End Report
- 00:07:05: Resolution Z26-727: John Street Historic District Correction
- 00:08:47: Resolution Z25-680: Valley Road Approval
- 00:09:47: Case Z22-295: 13 Prospect Avenue Extension Request
- 00:11:59: Ryan Kennedy, Attorney, Presents Case for Extension
- 00:16:51: Public Comment Period: 13 Prospect Avenue Case
- 00:17:59: Board Discussion and Approval of Extension Request
- 00:18:49: Case Z25-654: 25 Henderson Avenue Adjournment Request
- 00:20:11: Anthony Teddaro Requests Adjournment to June 24th
- 00:21:16: Board Discussion and Adjournment to June 24th
- 00:24:16: Case Z26-738: 288 Cherry Hill Road New Dwelling
- 00:24:50: Staff Summary: Variance Needed Due to Lot Size
- 00:29:20: Ryan Kennedy Presents: Existing Lot, Compliant Home
- 00:31:14: Tree Removal and Safety Concerns Addressed
- 00:31:45: Kristen Walker, Homeowner, States Intentions to Build
- 00:35:46: Kim Rel, Civil Engineer, Explains Home Siting
- 00:38:49: Siting of the Home and Stormwater Mitigation
- 00:44:05: Driveway Location and New Home Placement Clarification
- 00:47:53: Nicholas Franis Addresses Chimney and Fireplace Question
- 00:52:12: Stormwater and Tree Preservation Discussion
- 00:57:50: Public Comment: Wendy Mager, Friends of Princeton
- 01:07:10: Public Comment: Cherry Hill Resident, Winkler
- 01:09:17: Attorney Kennedy Summation
- 01:12:13: Board Deliberation Regarding Tree and Wetlands Issues
- 01:31:17: Motion to Approve Z26-738 Passes
- 01:32:23: Meeting Adjourned


Part: 1

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Okay. Good evening. This is a special meeting of the Princeton Zoning Board of Adjustment being held electronically via Zoom on May 13, 2026 at 7:30 p.m. Adequate notice of the time and place of this meeting has been given by

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prominently posting notice of this meeting on the official bulletin board at the municipal complex and by filing a copy with the clerk of Princeton on May 8th, 2026 and by posting a copy on the municipal

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website house page as a public notice. Claudia, can you call the role, please? >> Miss Chen, >> here. >> Miss Coulson, >> here. >> Mr. Floyd >> here. >> Mr. Shrivever.

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>> Mr. Tannen, Mr. Stein, Miss Donna, Mr. Dokin >> here, >> Chairman Cohen >> here. >> Thank you. >> Um,

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M. Gribbons, do you want to give us the uh the year-end report or is that >> Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I can. >> Taylor, what we'll do is we'll swear you in for the evening. Do you swear or affirm your testimony this evening? We'll be truthful. >> I do.

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>> Thank you. >> Um so for the 2025 uh report, um 26 applications were filed in the calendar year, three applications were withdrawn. Um the board heard 22 applications

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total. Um for appeals or interpretations of the zoning officer's decision, the board heard one which was 728 bun drive. Uh for time of extension, the board

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received two requests. In 2025, there were no requests to appeal the historic preservation commission decision. In 2025, the board considered 19 applications for C variances which were

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generally approved with conditions. The board heard three C variance applications involving lot area issues. All the applications involved the demolition of the existing home and the construction of new complying projects.

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The board also heard several applications for sideyard setbacks and height to setback ratios. Most were considered dimminimous and were approved. As for Dvarianes, the board heard seven.

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One D1 case for uses that were not permitted in the zone, Ridge View Road. One D2 case for the expansion of a non-conforming use, again, Ridge View Road. one D3 case for the deviation for

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conditional use 728 bun drive and four D4 cases for the floor area ratio which were 66 Dempsey 13 Prospect 164 Prospect and 254 Witherspoon.

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The board heard one minor site plan for 650 Great Road, one major site plan application for 254 Witherspoon, and one subdivision for 374, 355, 369, and 371

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Ridge View Road. Recommendations of the board to council. Number one is to consider the former burrow and township ordinances or to consolidate, excuse me, the former burrow and township ordinances. Number

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two, explore the creation of an ordinance that would permit non-complying homes located in flood zones to be raised above the base flood plane elevation without variances. And number three, to consider the elimination of variances for

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non-conforming lots where the proposed home meets the bulk requirements. >> Okay. Thank you very much. >> Of course. >> Okay. We have uh three resolutions this evening. The first is case number

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Z24-515, 347, 355, 369, and 371 Ridge View Road, block 4, 401, lot 13 and 14. I believe these were all in the package you received. Does anyone

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have any questions or comments on the resolution? Steve, are you are you trying to do all of them or are we going one by one? >> You mean with the resolutions? >> Yeah. >> I'm going to do just one at a time. We

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>> Okay, great. Yeah. Thank you. Good. >> So, does anyone have any question on this resolution? Or if there are none, if so, move would like to make a motion. >> I'll move approval. >> Thank you. I'll second it. >> Thank you, Eve. Okay, Claudia, can you

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call the role, please? >> Miss Chen, >> yes. >> Miss Coulson, >> yes. >> Mr. Floyd, >> yes. Yes. >> Mrs. Shrivever. >> Yes. >> Chairman Cohen. >> Yes.

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>> Thank you. I I have a a question. Can we uh are you okay with the report or are you making any do you have any provisions or any recommendations for council

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>> and can we approve it so we can I can send it to uh council. >> Oh >> yeah, we're talking about the first item the >> Yes. the report. Well, I think the I think the three items that that Miss Grivens identified

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that we want we would appreciate if council would have considered I think should again be emphasized. I think we I think we we noted the same three the year before. >> That's correct. >> They sound familiar.

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>> Well, do we have a motion to to uh endorse the report and a second? >> Okay. Would someone to make a motion >> report? >> I'll second. >> All right. And then I think we can just say all in favor and

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>> Okay. I >> I >> I >> Any nays? No. Okay. >> Okay. >> Great. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. Back to the resolutions. >> Thank you. >> Our next case is Z26-727

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166 to 168. John Street, uh, block 17.05, lot 16 in the R4B zone, the Witherspoon Jackson Historic District. Again, >> yes,

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>> I was going to say I do have two um changes I'd like to suggest. Uh, one is a correction. It's on page four in the now therefore paragraph, and it's simply a correction. It should be 1668

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John Street. And page two, um, paragraph six, uh, the applicant had asked that we, uh, clarify that their expert, Mr. Benadetto, is employed by

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Aka RF, Inc. So, I told them that's fine. Um, we can add that. Okay. Okay, board members, are there any questions on this ordinance, on this resolution? Or if there are none, if

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someone would like to make a motion. >> I move approval of Floyd. >> Thank you. >> Second. >> Okay. >> Who second? >> Driver. >> All right, Miss

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>> Coulson. Yes, >> Mr. Floyd. >> Yes, >> Mr. Shriber. >> Yes, >> Mr. Stein. >> Yes, >> Chairman Cohen. >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Our third and final resolution is

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case number Z25-680 64 Valley Road, block 701, lot 258 in the R6T zone. Um Karen, are there any corrections or additions to this? >> No, I don't have any changes. >> Okay. Board members, uh are there any

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questions on this resolution? >> Okay. If none if someone would like to make a motion. >> I'll move approval of Floyd. >> Thank you. >> I'll second. >> Okay. Thank you, Claudia. >> Miss Chen,

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>> yes. >> Miss Coulson, >> yes. >> Mr. Floyd, >> yes. >> Mr. Stein, >> yes. >> Jen, >> yes. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Um, we have three applications this evening. The first is case number

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Z22-295, 13 Prospect Avenue, block 49.01, lot 2.01 in the E2B zone. Um, Miss Gribbons, can you read or summarize your memo for us on this case? >> Absolutely.

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>> Taylor, before you do that, I will just note that the noticing is in order and the board has jurisdiction tonight. >> Sorry. >> Okay. >> Um, so I'll give a brief overview. The applicants, um, the Tower Club at 13

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Prospect Avenue are requesting an extension of time for a minor site plan approval memorialized on April 23rd of 2025 for the construction of an addition to the existing clubhouse for accessible ADA elevator, the removal of an existing

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shed, and the reconstruction of walkway to the west of the principal structure. Minor site plan approval included a D4 F variance to permit a floor area ratio of89 and a C1 and C2 bulk variance to permit

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coverage on the site of 30.68%. A sideyard setback for the elevator tower of 4.6 ft and a sidewalk setback of.5 ft. The applicants are looking for an extension of time to complete the approved construction during the

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upcoming summer months while the students are away from campus. >> So, we're we're to assume this this would take place before the end of August. >> Yes. >> Okay.

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>> Okay. >> All right. They didn't they didn't ask for a specific time. So maybe we can um put a time limit on it. We can say prior to the start of the 202627

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school year. >> Steve, I think their attorney is present tonight. So I don't know if he wants to speak to this or >> make any presentation. >> Okay. Why don't we recognize him and allow him to start?

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Who's representing this case for the uh >> I believe it's Ryan Kennedy. >> Apologies. Um I was Ryan Kennedy from Stevenson Lee for the applicant. Um Zoom does not allow you to change your name until you're in the room. So I'm going

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to correct it now. Apologies that it uh lists something from a prior meeting. Um um >> but u Mr. Chairman, yes, thank you so much. Um if you recall um bit more than a year ago a long process um for the

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tower club uh ultimately uh there were several um items that were of interest um before this board and the historic commission and a and a long back and forth initially including a lot of discussion about front yard parking uh

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and a very important tree uh to the club. After many iterations, uh the project was scaled back uh just essentially uh to the um uh elevator tower uh expansion for ADA accessibility and some um site improvements um as

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well. Uh this is a fairly rare situation. We're here asking out of abundance of caution. I believe tech usually um site plan approvals vest for 2 years. Um the underlying zoning has not changed, but Princeton does have this ordinance that has a one-year limit

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to pull permits um for a project. And um we we came back here just to ask for that just in case it it is needed beyond the the two-year site plan vesting. Princ's ordinance for variances says one

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year. The site plan statute would say two. Um, importantly here that there's been no changing to the underlying zoning and um, as uh, Miss Gribbon um, did note, the reason is so that construction could be timed during the school year. I'll just add that just for additional flexibility both because I

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think it lines up with the site plan approval anyway and just in case there are other un unrelated delays that our request was for an additional year um, um, if if that suits the board. Again, the the plan was and RISE hasn't started yet was to avoid the the students um and

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we're hopeful to mobilize and and be done this summer, but rather than perhaps another trip back, our our request would be for one year to line up with the two-year site plan. >> What would that date be? >> Uh the uh the resolution was approved in

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April of 2015. Um, so that would be um April I believe 20 3rd um 2017 >> 20 >> 27 >> correct. >> Okay.

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>> Wait a minute. You mean Brian? You mean it was approved April 2025? >> Um if I said something different that is what I meant. It was approved the resolution is dated one year ago >> essentially you know uh in and two weeks. Um the request would

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be a year from that. Um >> yes >> to 227 >> two it would be two years from that. >> No it would be one year from now. >> One year from now two years from the resolution approval. >> Yeah. >> One year from now. >> No.

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Okay. Anything else, Mr. Kennedy? >> Uh no. I believe we have a representative from the from the club if anyone has any questions. I don't know if it's necessary. Uh, so I don't have anything directly for him, but if there's any questions, we're happy to answer them and happy to and and thank you for for your time.

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>> Yes. Board members, any questions of Mr. Kennedy? >> I guess I I have one question. Um, I I believe, but I'm I'm not sure regarding the the elevator. Is is there

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an approved pre-approval by DCA that's needed to start that? And if it is, >> has it been obtained? Um, uh, that's an excellent question. I I don't honestly know the the answer to that. Um, uh, the the construction side of the the team,

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uh, unfortunately only, you know, ask me questions when they've been authorized, I guess, to to spend the club's money. So, to be honest with I I I don't know. I It's likely that it is. Um, but I I don't know the answer. >> Okay. Yeah. I I had asked that because I'm supportive of the of the year um as

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opposed to something shorter because I've I've I've heard that it's it's can be a long process with DCA. >> Yeah. The elevator needs approval and they need a local building permit as well. >> Yeah.

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>> Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you're welcome. >> Any other questions of Mr. Kennedy? Can I move approval? >> Well, we have to have a public comment period here. >> So, Mr. Kennedy, I'm going to open this

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up to the public if you want to say anything or >> nothing further. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. >> You're welcome. Okay. This we're going to go into the public portion of the hearing. If there's anyone in the audience who would like to speak on behalf of this application, please

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indicate that by pressing the raise your hand button on the screen. Claudia, any >> I don't see. >> There are no hands. >> Okay, we'll close the public portion of the hearing. And again, Mr. Kennedy,

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before we go into executive session, if you'd like to say something. >> No, I just want to thank the board and and also looking back, this was a I mean a challenging but a a healthy back and forth that a project that developed over time. very much appreciated to the board and your counterparts at HPC for working

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with this applicant over it was almost two years to kind of get to this final uh plan. So much appreciated. Thank you. >> Okay, board members, uh we're going to go into executive session. Uh is there any discussion on this? Any questions?

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If not, if someone would like to make a motion. This appears to me to be pretty straightforward. >> So moved. Excuse me, Stephen. >> So moved. >> Okay. Second. Anyone?

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>> I'll second that. Floyd. >> Thank you. All right. There are no questions on the motion. Please, Claudia, call the roll. >> Miss Chen, >> yes. >> Miss Coulson, >> yes. >> Mr. Floyd, >> yes. >> Mr. Shrivever, >> yes.

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>> Mr. Stein, >> yes. >> Mr. Dokin. >> Yes. >> Chairman Cohen. >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you, Mr. Kennedy. >> Thank you so much. >> Okay. Our next

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application this evening is case number Z25-654, 25 Henderson Avenue, block 6804, lot 11 in the R2T zone. Karen, are the uh notices in order? they are and the board

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has jurisdiction tonight. >> Okay. >> Now, I will I will advise u Mr. Chair that I understand the applicant's attorney is here and I believe they are going to request that the board take

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jurisdiction and carry this application to June 24th. So, uh perhaps it's best to let their attorney, Mr. Taro uh uh advise what they're seeking and then the board can decide if you're going to

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carry it. Then that maybe the best thing is to um hear all your testimony then including a presentation by Miss Gribbin of her of her memo. >> So you're saying Miss Griven should wait to >> No, I'm saying if you're going to carry

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it then you're going to carry it and if you're not going to then you know we'll we'll hear the application. So perhaps Mr. Tadaro could explain uh what the applicant would like to do. >> Yes. Uh thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh members of the board, good evening. Anthony

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Teddaro of Fakery Drinker Bidd and Wreath on behalf of the applicants. Uh we had uh previously submitted uh an adjourment request to the board's uh next regular meeting on June 24th. While

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we appreciate uh the ability to to get us on for this special meeting, uh due to some scheduling conflicts and and witness avail uh witnesses being unavailable, we have just requested just to carry this um after the board takes

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jurisdiction and uh make an announcement that the matter would be heard at the next regular meeting on June 24th. >> Okay. All right. Karen, do we want to have Miss Grivens just summarize her memo for

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the public or not? >> If if I may. >> Yes. >> I would just suggest that if if we are going to carry it that any substantive uh discussion be had all all at one time. >> Okay. >> Thank Thank you. I think that I I tend

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to agree with that because uh once you go through Miss Gribbon's memo, the board probably will have questions >> and want her to provide further testimony. So basically then you'd end up beginning the hearing on it and and I

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think what's being asked is if you're amendable to it to adjourn it to June 24th. Um, in which case, uh, we would announce tonight if the board is amendable that the this hearing is being carried to

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June 24 and that the applicant will not be obligated to make further notice. >> Okay. All right. >> Is is the board amendable? Is everybody uh support that? >> Do we want a roll call vote or we just

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want to >> No, no. just a consensus that this is acceptable is is okay. >> Well, I think um are everybody want to indicate if they're supportive of this application? >> Yes. >> Yes.

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>> How many cases are scheduled >> for June 24th? >> Um without this case being scheduled on the 24th, there are three applications >> for June 24th. So, this will be the fourth.

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>> Yes. >> I I'll note just that there's another application on the 24th. It's been carried a couple of times. It involves a property on Mountain Avenue, but uh I'll say there's a common issue between them

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with respect to um access. So, that's why it maybe it's helpful to hear them together on the same agenda. That's not why the applicant, as I understand it, is seeking an adjournment, but that's just an additional thing to keep in

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mind. >> That's that's correct. >> Well, I guess the the the only thing is we'll we'll Mr. Tader will try to get it on on the 24th. Um I don't know if this would be heard first or I would imagine it would be

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heard last since it's being carried, but >> and we understand that and we can only do what we can. It's just we know that tonight we we weren't going to be able to present our case. So, >> okay. >> Okay. >> German and we heard when when when we can.

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>> Okay. All right. So, I guess uh we are in agreement board members that we'll carry this to the 24th. >> Michael, are you okay with >> Yeah, I'm okay with it. >> Okay. And the note just for the members of the public, you'll see on the agenda

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for the 24th when it comes out the uh information so that you can participate via Zoom. It should be the same as for tonight, but that information is always reprinted on the agenda. >> Okay. All right. Thank you very much, Mr. Tadero.

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>> Thank you very much. Have a great night, everyone. >> Okay. Okay. Um moving right along. Our next case is case number Z26-738 288 Cherry Hill Road, block 3901, lot 1101

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in the RA zone. Karen, are the notices in order? >> They are in order and the board has jurisdiction tonight. >> Okay. All right. Miss Griffins, can you give us your memo or summary of your memo?

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>> I'd be happy to. Um, so the application before you is for 288 Cherry Hill Road. That's in the RAT zone. The applicant is proposing to demolish the existing dwelling on site to construct a new two-story single

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family dwelling. Again, um the subject property is in the RAT zone and is subject to the use and bulk regulations in accordance with sections T10B 246 and 255 of the former Princeton Township land use ordinance

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um but not subject to the neighborhood character ordinance of um the residential standards. The subject property is not located within a locally designated historic district. Um

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the proposed new uh two-story single family dwelling will is proposed to include five bedrooms, five full bathrooms, two half baths, a relocation of the driveway, a fourcar attached garage, a

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rear patio, and a pool. The subject lot is not compliant with the following bulk requirements of the RAT zone which is the lot area where the requirement is 174,240

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ft and the existing is 106,387.6 ft. Typically, we would ask the applicant to advise if they had made contact with any of the adjacent property owners to determine if they would sell any property to lessen or eliminate the variance or in the

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alternative purchased the lot. Um, but I will mention that the subject property abuts the John Witherspoon Woods open space to the left and an already existing undersized lot to the right. Um, additionally, I would like to note

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that the applicant proposes to remove a total of 35 trees on the subject site. If the board um is to act favorably on the favorably on the application, a condition shall be made that the applicant obtain any and all applicable

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permits for tree removal and replacement with the municipal arborist prior to the issuance of the zoning permit. Um, if anybody has any questions, I'd be happy to answer them. Borg. Yes. Question. >> Um, is this not in a zone that's

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environmentally sensitive? >> Can you speak a little louder? >> I'm sorry. Is this um location in a zone that's environmentally sensitive? And does that impose any additional requirements?

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>> Um, to my knowledge, no. >> No. >> I I had a similar question. um just in that I I noticed that let's see I guess page two

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of the um location map what's called location map master plan at the I'm going to say you know farthest from Cherry Hill Road that back triangle of

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the property it says wetlands limit line per New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection, New Jersey Geo Web. But it also says, I marked it somewhere else. It said that that was not

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something along the lines of an official. It hadn't um Let me see if I can >> That might be something that civil engineer can speak to. Yeah, it says wetlands limit line shown from New

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Jersey geo web not from field delineation or is based on an approved letter of interpretation. So that made me just wonder if we oughten to have that for starters. >> Well, why don't we let the uh applicant

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explain that? That's a very good point. >> Yeah, that is a very good question. Okay, board members, any other questions. Okay. Um, who is going to be representing the applicant this evening? Ah, Mr. Kennedy.

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>> I did not go far. Um, and speaking a little sooner than I anticipated, so we'll look forward to um ending everyone's evening a little sooner than we were anticipating. But um, again, thank you all for your time. Ryan Kennedy from the law firms of Stevens and Lee for the Walker family. Um, as

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Miss Gribbon noted, um, we are here for a C1 variance. This is your classic hardship. It's an existing lot um, with a house on it. Um, they're looking to build an otherwise conforming home that that satisfies all of the requirements of uh, Princeton uh, in the zone with

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the only exception being the existing condition of lot size. Um, as she also noted, um, because the property is surrounded by, and we'll we'll show this with the with our exhibits, um, uh, preserved open space and similarly

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undersized lots that could not, uh, sell or transfer any property without themselves becoming more non-conforming. Uh, the the necessity of of that exercise was not um required here um for this undersized

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um, lot. Um, couple of other notes before I introduce our our two witnesses, one being the property owner, uh, and our, uh, um, representative from our civil engineering team. I'll note that we do have a representative from the architecture team. I don't know if we'll need them, but um, um, there are questions later, we can have perhaps our

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designer answer those, but um, you know, this type of case, I'm not sure if that's necessary, but they're here um, as well if needed. Um, I'll also note um, as as Mr. descriptions uh point on the um on the trees. Uh we've already begun that process. We'll talk through

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that. Um and actually I believe the applicants team met with uh the other and I'm going to continue to get confused with so many uh tailor now on the land use team in Princeton, but with the arborist um last week or the week before to to iron out the the needs and

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we uh u her suggestion uh Taylor Gribbon's suggestion of a condition makes perfect sense to us. Um and we've already started that process. Also note that um um most of the changes are resulting um in the relocation of the driveway. Um we'll show you that there

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there's a a change in that that's more of a safety purpose. Um so recloing the driveway is causing some of the needs of um of that tree. The other parts are um uh the storm water management um as well. Um but but ultimately happy to

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comply with those requirements. Um our our two witnesses here this evening. First will be Kristen Walker, the the property owner. Um and uh also Kim Rel from our civil engineering team. Um perhaps if we want to swear them both in

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at once, we could we could do that now. >> Sure. Um Miss Walker, Mr. Brel, you both swear or affirm your testimony this evening will be truthful. >> I do. >> Thank you. Uh Kristen, uh if you could just, you know, briefly um introduce yourself to

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the board um and your connection to Princeton and you know, your your plans here for uh for building your your new home at 288. >> Sure. Thank you, Ryan, and thanks everybody to on the board tonight for attending this meeting and letting us um bring our requests before you. My name

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is Kristen Walker. Uh my husband Charlie and I and our four children are relocating to the Princeton area for uh my job. We are actually moving this summer, but um excited to join the community as soon as possible and

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hopefully uh build at 288 Cherry Hill. Um and so we're we're happy to answer questions and fully invested in the process. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Kristen. Um uh if it's all right, as we normally do, I have a

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series of um um a short series of slides that we've submitted as our exhibits. I'd like if it's all right to share my screen and uh mark that as our one um exhibit this evening. Uh and I'll get to the end. I believe we have

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11 slides, but the last one just uh is our traditional opportunity to thank the board. >> Okay. Thank you. Um I believe that um that is now sharing. Um Kristen, before we switch over to our civil engineer, just a couple questions from you. Um the uh

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that blue arrow um points to the the property that we're talking about and and um you've purchased for for your home at 28. >> Yes, we have. That's correct. Was was Miss Walker sworn in? Did I not pay attention?

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>> She was she was great. >> Um, moving on to the next slide. This we've got an aerial photo that we uh took from Connect Explorer, but that's your property um outlined in blue. And then um I guess as you heard before kind

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of behind it and to the left um is the preserved open space. And you know the one to the to the right is a another home. Is that >> that correct? Yes. >> What we're looking at. >> Yep. >> Um and then uh again zoomed in a little bit more. This with a different

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orientation, but the uh existing um home on the lot. And you can see um the I guess uh on a an up and down motion here parallel mostly to uh Cherry Hill Road is the existing driveway uh on the on

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the lot. >> Yes, that's correct. >> And and one of your I guess requests in working with your design team was to I don't say make that a little um not just say simpler, but to reroute that for for safety reasons and better access to the

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to the road. Yes, sir. Well, >> thank you. Um um if anyone has any questions for the homeowner, um I'm assuming most of the questions will be able to be answered by civil engineer, but certainly offer it now before uh uh before she's done. >> Board members, any questions of the

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homeowner. Okay, Mr. Ryan, please continue. >> Thank you. Um our next witness and possibly final I suppose uh for the evening is um our civil engineer uh Kevin already sworn in but if you could I know you've testified before this board uh many times if you could uh give

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the board the benefit of your credential so I can accept uh accept it as an expert here tonight. >> Yes, I'm an undergraduate uh from NGIT and in civil engineering. I hold a currently hold my New Jersey professional land uh engineers license

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and in good standing. Uh I've been at this for close to 40 years. Uh and I've testified in front of this board numerous times. >> We will accept you as an expert in your field. >> Thank you. >> Mr. Let me just ask, are you the you're

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the engineer of record? Is that correct? >> That that is correct. >> All right. Thank you. >> Okay. Um so uh Kevin on slide five here we've got the um bulk charts here. Um we just uh confirm for the board that this

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complies with all of the uh the proposal complies with all the requirements except uh that first one which is the existing lot area. We take them through that. >> That is correct. >> All right. Where umund 174,240 square feet is required. Uh the existing

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condition is just a little over a hundred thousand. >> Yeah. Which is a little more than in acreage terms it's about two and a half. Is that right? >> Uh it's 2.4 acres. >> 2 point 2 2.4 acres.

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>> That's correct. >> Is not 174,000 square feet. >> No. >> No. Two. It's the the current lot size or the existing lot size is 2.4 acres but we're but it's

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>> lot is the is the 106,000. Yes. >> That's correct. >> Okay. >> I'm sorry. Yes. >> And it's a 4 acre requirement. >> Correct. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Um move to slide six. I think colorcoded

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the um a portion of the tax map this side of the street showing the lots that don't conform to the 4acre requirement um our lot and then the the one lot that that does which is the preserved open space. Okay. So Kevin, is there any option here to get more land? Um I

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suppose to to fix the condition >> there there is not unless of course the town wants to you know make a purchase you know but no there is not. >> And your understanding is that generally when property is open space the state

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wouldn't allow that. It would be a >> correct >> a unpleasant um uh experience to to find replacement property I guess. >> Yeah. >> All right. Um next kind of um showing again from another view the uh adjacent

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um property and the property uh behind it as not being uh um available. Is that is that right? Green being preserved and not available. Red being too small to give more land. >> Correct. >> Um next I believe we've got a uh portion

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of one of your site plans. if maybe this would be a good time to take the board through, you know, the the program for the the sighting of the home, you know, where the storm water mitigation would be, maybe the revised driveway, um, as well as, uh, you know, if perhaps you can answer the, um, the question that we

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heard before about the, uh, wetlands, potential wetlands, uh, you know, to the >> Excuse me. Uh, can you enlarge the site plan? maybe get rid of the other things on the screen so the site plan is larger >> so I I I I can zoom in but I I believe

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the portion of the screen that I'm sharing is really limited to the slide. I I don't know if that's a if it's a me thing. I'm happy to do it. It may be a function of your screen at the moment. >> No problem. Please continue. Yeah. >> If if this is helpful. I'm able to zoom

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in a little bit but I think I I max out at about here. If that's >> that's fine. That's fine. >> Uh so as you see that we have an existing house on the property which will be removed along with any existing improvements and in front of you you

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have the proposal uh for the home uh with on the as you're facing the home on the left hand side uh that hatched area is your storm water management. This will be a major project in the eyes of the ordinance. So we will be addressing

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all storm events as required. Uh we will use a series of retaining walls. Our goal was not to disturb any more than an acre uh to so we uh would have we can we would not have to go to the Dware Ritan Canal Commission which would trigger

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that. But it was also we wouldn't remove as many trees and part of that was to preserve trees. Now we relocated the driveway. Um the the way it was before it was kind of

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hard to access the site uh going towards Princeton. It was a it was a hard turn if you will. This way we we centered it up on the lot. It gives a little better visibility and and a little shorter driveway for

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for coverage reasons. Uh you can also see that we're proposing a patio area in the rear with a pool area that'll be a walk out scenario out the back uh for access. It also helps with again the disturbance area and minimizing that as

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much as possible. So, um Kevin, if you if you I know it's not shown necessarily on this exhibit, but if you perhaps e explain, I suppose um what was done or what would be needed to be done if anything as far as um uh

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wetlands on on the site? the as as you mentioned as the question came about was about the wetlands uh shown on the plan that is that was actually u pulled from the new New Jersey geo web the D website as stated

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as on the note uh that's how it was plotted we you know kind of use their G uh GPS or GIS program with ours and and that's how it was plotted no it is not a field delineation by a consultant, but

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uh previously talking to Derek, he he thought that this might suffice since we weren't we weren't going uh developing anywhere near the the wetlands area or in fact the buffer area. We're well outside that any possible buffer area. >> And and um Kevin, is is it the case that

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those are state rules and if there was a requirement to comply it, we certainly would. uh would be something that that would not be something that the the board um you know would be able to you know grant a waiver from that ultimately if it's a requirement for wetlands that's something that D would require and do that

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>> yes that would be up to the board whether you know again whether or not they wanted a field delineation or not but we we felt that uh again that we weren't going to be anywhere near that and for the most part where the pool extends to or the patio that's that's a

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disturbed area now from in lawn law long lawn sense it it's been disturbed. >> So um maybe in terms of of of feet can you can maybe just roughly explain to the board how far away from those areas the project is staying and and maybe

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again explain which ones disturbed. >> Uh let's see if I can do that for you if you give me one second and see if I can. It's well I would say it's about 75 ft from the buffer line.

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>> So that's that's not 75 ft from any possible wetlands. It's 75 ft from the >> from the actual buffer line. So in in this case you you would add you know another 50 ft to that to the wetlands line. >> Got it. And in in your experience, is um

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that state data and distance usually um uh accepted as as appropriate um distance to stay away from without triggering the need for the >> Oh, yes. >> state to require a a letter interpretation. >> Yes. >> I have one. If we were to approve this,

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I I would like to have our engineer uh review it just to make sure he feels that no wetlands delineation is required. >> Good. >> I think that's an excellent condition and and I I'll note that while that may have I don't know whether that's happened yet or not. Um because this um

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has storm water will be going before the engineering department as well. Um uh so um they might have caught it as part of that, but it's excellent condition and and I think that that makes sense from our end. >> I have a question. Is there an existing driveway now? I don't see one. >> Yeah.

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>> Yes, sir. Yes, there is. >> Where would it be on this map? >> If you look, it would be the it would be the far uh left corner by the road there, right near the entrance of the park, actually. Uh, and it kind of it draws up along all the way across the

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face uh of the house and and up. >> Kevin, would it be helpful if I I move back? We had an aerial photo that I think showed it. Wouldn't we want to move back to that? >> Yeah. Uh, yeah. I don't know if it it it should >> Hold on. Let me

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>> So, I believe this here. >> Uh, you can Yeah, it's it's kind of tough to see, but Oh, you can see it. Yeah, right there, Ryan. It's It goes right up. You can see that long driveway and it comes where it acts as uh the the uh Cherry Hill Road. Like I said, it's a

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sharp turn coming into it from one direction. >> While you have this slide up, can you Is the new house roughly going on the same plot that the old house is on? >> It's It's a little further south from the existing house,

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>> but about the same distance from the road. Uh yes, pretty much so. Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Uh the existing house that I can tell you about >> 57 ft from the uh right away.

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>> Why don't you share uh the PDF with the civil plans on page three? I think that's more clear. >> Happy Kevin, do you have that handy? If not, I can. >> Yeah, I don't know if I can pull that up. >> I'm not that techsavvy to share, quite

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honest with you. Do you have Do you have the uh PDF, Ryan? >> Uh I do. It might take me a minute, though, so if there's other questions, >> you'll probably have better luck at it than me. >> I have it open if you want me to share. >> Oh, that'd be great. >> That's an option. Technically, I'm

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happy. I think I've yielded the screen back. That >> Okay, hold on a sec. you have your drive. >> There we go. >> An existing house. >> Thank you, Mr. Chen. That that's that's quite helpful. Um,

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>> and the new house will essentially cover the old house. Kevin, fair. >> Yeah, it it covers a portion of it. Yes. >> Okay, thank you. >> Um, let me um we

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just to to round things out and if I can uh hopefully get my screen back. One second here. Um um he moved back up just to round out the presentation. Um so um we do have the designer from the

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team here. Um we have the elevations right in your packet just to show the the home. Um um you know just noting that it's compliant and um and we're not really planning any direct testimony on it but uh I'll represent that our you know someone from the design team is available if there are questions about the architecture um that the board might

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have uh beyond what uh uh what our engineer um has testified. >> I saw a number of chimney or a number of fireplaces in the drawings. Are there any chimneys? Kevin, if you know that other otherwise, um I'll I'll ask uh I I don't I don't

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from the design team waiting in the wings. Um Claude, if you bring him over, happy to have him uh uh testify or answer that question. >> What's his name again? >> Uh hold on, let me stop my share here. >> Ryan,

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>> uh Fran Franis. Um Nicholas, I believe. Maybe first of all, if you would raise your push your raised hand button, I believe that that should be you. Yes, there you go. >> It's not a major question. It's just a curiosity.

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>> Yeah, we he he was able to to to say to come, so might as well give him a give him his moment. Yeah. So to make his trip worthwhile. Um uh princ I believe there should be an invitation. You might have to click yes to join as a panelist. Uh >> he declined to be a panelist. There he

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is. Oh. Uh, well, I believe we'll need to have your uh camera on to to hear something from you and uh I'll I'll ask that you be sworn in before you uh provide any testimony. I believe you you muted yourself, sir.

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Hello. >> Okay. >> Yes, we can we can hear you. If you could get your camera on then I can ask you to be sworn in. >> Yes. Let me see if I can get it working for you here. >> There you go. >> Sir, do you swear or affirm your

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testimony this evening will be truthful? >> Yes, I do. >> Thank you. Um, and I I'll just represent we'll just have him as a fact witness. He's part of the design team, but there was a different uh architect of record. Uh, so rather than go through the details, I'll maybe just have him answer the the factual question if that's all

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right. Um, >> uh, so first of all, I I I believe the question was uh as to fireplaces and and chimneys. >> Uh, yes, we don't have any uh chimneys. Uh, we're going to have probably a gas fireplace which would be direct vented out. Um, but not right now we're not uh

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looking to put any chimneys in. And for our HVAC units, usually we have them in a corner somewhere in the basement. And our HVAC system is usually direct vented out with no chimneys. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> Um I'll ask the board before, you know,

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summarizing um if there are any other questions that either our engineer represent from the design team could could answer, happy to submit for them. Uh now >> board members, any other questions? would um I don't know if the engineer

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would be able to answer the question of if there was any other um when you considered where you were going to put the um uh the what am I trying to say the um wetland remediation the I mean that's

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not what I want to say the um is it the >> storm water >> storm water thank you were there were there did you consider other areas was that the Well, that was that that was really the only area that it was downhill of everything so I could collect all all

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the runoff as I could to to help mitigate that. That's uh that that was pretty much the the only spot. Uh I didn't want to push it too far back into the wooded area. Uh again, save some trees for that reason. Uh but that that

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really is the best spot for it because it is downhill of all the development. >> That that does make sense that you it still did require taking out some trees. So you're saying >> we did less required less trees being taken out by

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>> that's that's correct. That's correct. Uh again and as we did meet with the arborist and we went over things and he was satisfied. We made a couple minor changes to the plan form and that's reflected in the latest revision. So,

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>> okay. I assume you're going to be replanting a number of trees. >> Uh, I I would assume so. Yes. >> Okay. Okay. Any other questions, board members? I'd like a little more positive answer

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than that. >> Yeah. >> Repling the tree. Uh that would definitely be up to the the owner on how many. >> So So let me let me let me let me uh let me maybe perhaps do a better job. Of course. Um we've already met with the

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arborist. Um we will be doing the at least the amount of um uh replacement trees. Um uh if if there's any issue um not running out of places to put new trees, we certainly would uh um uh contribute financially as required, but

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I think the the idea is to get as many on as as possible. Uh the the at least the compliant number and and then some. Um and uh um again, that's already in the process of being worked out with the the uh with the arburist. >> I I think that's an important thing for

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us to pay attention to because I don't actually ever recall an application that had the this strong language really at the you know where it says a total of 35 trees will be removed and um it was

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recommended that you know that that all applicable permits for tree removal and replacement um be obtained before in issuance of the zoning permit. I mean that that

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is what I want to make sure that we would do rather than assume that it would be done. No. Um fair fair point. Um and we are certainly in agreement with the the condition um as as suggested by uh by

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Miss Gribbon. Um certainly the intention would be to plot uh you know there there are specific requirements uh regardless but you know um making sure that they're done as an additional condition here. um uh certainly makes sense to us and it is either way our intention um and

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requirement really uh to comply with the town's ordinance and again that's you know exactly how where they would go is is kind of already in the process. I know sometimes there are um I don't expect it on this case, but you know there there there are options for um um

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how and where the placements go and that will all be worked out in conjunction with the arburist. >> Okay. Um, if the board members board members, any more questions before we move on?

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Okay, Mr. Kennedy, do you >> have any more witnesses or would you like to see anything else? >> That that'll uh that's it for our witnesses this evening. I want to thank you so much. This is your um uh classic C1 um existing

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case where there is not an option to expand the the lot. We are proposing an otherwise compliant lot in the township does not benefit from the burrow's rule that would allow this construction um to continue. Um uh so we have to come here

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for the um for this variance. It was actually interesting to hear um in the summary um you know how many of these type of cases were were were before this board last year. Um uh look I I'm a statement against interest here. Um I'm uh this is my job to do this. Um uh but

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uh perhaps uh um I appreciate the the hearing the summary because ultimately of you know um if otherwise existing lots didn't have to go this process and you know pay folks like me. Um there are there's some other I'll say you know safeguards on the on the trees and storm water are done uh administratively. Um

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but be that as may in the township it is still required that we come back and seek the variance. Um, and again, as as Miss Gribbon noted in in her her um memo, this is your classic C1, there is really nothing about this undersized lot that we could do um uh other than u

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abandon it. Um, and it's got an existing house and uh we're proposing conforming um otherwise conforming lot. So again, thank you so much for for your time and appreciative. I I think we might be seeing the maybe this is the new gold standard for uh tree conditions, but the

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language makes sense to us and maybe we'll start seeing that on on other similar applications. We certainly uh agree to it here. Thank you. >> Okay. Um at this time, we're going to open the meeting up to the public. Uh, if there's anyone in the audience who'd

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like to comment or ask any questions on this application, please indicate that by pushing the raise your hand button at the bottom of the screen. Uh, Claudia, has anybody indicated they'd like to speak on this application? >> There are no hands.

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>> Okay, >> wait one second. One sec. Oh, one second. Hi, Wendy. >> Hi, >> Miss W Maker, if you're comfortable giving us your address. If not, if you

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can just tell us if you're a resident of Princeton. I am a resident of Princeton and my address is 459 Cherry Hill Road. >> All righty. And do you swear affirm any testimony you give this evening will be truthful? >> I do. >> Thank you.

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>> Um so, uh I am raising my hand in sort of uh two capacities. one is as the president of friends of Princeton open space and the other is as a resident of Princeton and of this

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particular part of Princeton. Um first of all I want to welcome uh Miss Walker and her family uh in terms of their interest in um becoming residents of Princeton. Um it's a wonderful place to live. Um

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in terms of uh being um the president of Friends of Princeton Open Space, um as uh various among you may know, um that is a nonprofit

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uh land conservation and and uh stewardship organization here in Princeton. and Friends of Princeton Open Space in fact has adopted pursuant to the state statute and the um

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town's adopt a park program the John Witherspoon Woods which is the um open space immediately adjacent to the property that the walkers have purchased. And um

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uh one thing I'm going to suggest in the future is that um uh notice be given of this kind of application to um nonprofit organizations in those circumstances because we devote a

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tremendous amount of time and treasure to maintaining public uh open space on behalf of all the citizens in Princeton and so of course we take an interest in what happens

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um adjacent to them but because we don't own the public parks um although we hold a minority interest in some of the more recently acquired ones uh we don't get formal notice. So, I only learned about

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this um application earlier today. Um and um I I have heard um well, let let me back up. I don't

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intend to say a lot about the um the application in terms of the uh request for approval of a variance from the lot size requirement. It it is the case as was mentioned by

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one of the uh zoning board members that uh this is an environmentally sensitive area. Um, the Princeton Ridge was specially zoned uh for large lots because of its unique

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ecosystem which provides many um so-called green services um to the town. uh in relation to um uh counteracting urban heat effects, uh

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providing um spaces for the birds and animals that we all enjoy seeing, um helping prevent uh flooding, etc. So, um this lot is in a

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special area. Um, I don't know if the Walker's realtor made them aware that it was non-conforming, but I assume they knew that when they purchased it. But again, it's not the lot size that concerns me

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so much. Our concern is with the trees that are to be removed. Um the John Witherspoon Woods, the adjacent property was recently inducted just within the past month into the old

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growth forest network. And I appreciate that the Walker's property is not part of the woods, but many of these trees are big and old and their removal will have an impact on that adjacent valuable forest ecosystem.

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So, um, anything that the board can do to encourage, uh, actions that might reduce uh, the amount of

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uh, large trees to be removed and or ensure the proper um, care of any replacement trees. um would be uh greatly appreciated and a benefit to the community which has had

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the unfortunate experience of um a lot on the other side of Cherry Hill Road quite close to this purchased by someone who had very um ambitious plans for a large house and pool etc etc. cut

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down many many trees, um planted replacement trees, abandoned the project, didn't take care of the replacement trees, and they all died. So, um that is a concern here. Um I'm sure that's not the walker's

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intention, but it's always good to put things in in writing um as others have suggested. Um this evening I understand that uh the storm water plans will be re reed by the engineering department. I

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hope that understanding is correct. Um but again um you know I I do urge the walkers and their um professionals um to consider every possible option to

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um reduce the number of large trees that have to be removed because replacing a large tree with a a tree that has you know a 3-in diameter because you can't put back a tree that has a 20-in

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diameter at breast height or a 40inch diameter at breast height is really uh a step backward from uh an environmental perspective, a climate perspective and a sustainability perspective. So um that's

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the concern I wanted to express and I appreciate you listening to me. >> Thank you very much. Uh, Claudia, is there anyone else who's indicated they'd like to speak? >> There are no more hands.

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>> Okay. >> Marty, did you bring over Mr. Reid or >> um >> because I see him? >> Stephen, did you do it? >> Uh, >> I I'm just I'm listening in. Can you

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hear me? >> We can. We can, Mr. Reid, but did you want to make a comment? >> Um, I'd like to help the uh applicant a little bit. >> Well, all right, then. We'll need to see you on the screen.

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>> Okay. I'm not sure. I'm I'm not that uh conversant with Zoom, so that >> Well, but we can't I'm afraid we're not going to let you we can't let you participate if we can't see you. >> See what I That's all right. I'll I'll

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leave it be. But I guess the answer is nobody else than Steve unless Claudia says there's someone else. >> No, there are no hands. >> Okay. >> Okay. All right. Hearing none, we'll close the public portion of the hearing.

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Uh we will allow Mr. Kennedy to sum up before we go into executive. >> One second. One second. up. Okay. >> Hi, >> Mr. Winkler. Hi. Uh uh if you could uh let us know your address or at least if

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you're a resident of Princeton. >> Sure. Can you hear me? >> Yeah, >> we can hear you. >> Oh, great. Uh I'm a resident of Cherry Hill uh Cherry Hill Road. >> All right. And um do you swear or affirm any testimony you give this evening will be truthful? >> I do. >> Thank you.

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>> I would just like to second um Wendy's comments. I I fully welcome and and support the walkers to the neighborhood, but um just expressing some concern around the impact on really the the old growth canopy and and how we can do our best to to preserve the kind of character certainly of of the the climb

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up from town into the the Cherry Hill Ridge. >> Nothing further to add. >> Okay. Thank you very much. >> Thank you very much for the time. >> Welcome to the neighborhood, Kristen. Okay, Claudia. Uh, anyone else indicated

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they'd like to speak? >> There are no hands. >> Okay. Um, >> can I just say I keep getting removed from the meeting and I would like to continue to listen in. So, if somebody could stop removing me, I'd be grateful.

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>> Okay. All right. So, at this point, we will close the public portion of the hearing, allow Mr. Kennedy to sum up and then go into executive session. >> Thank you so much. Um and also appreciative of uh the comments from uh

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both the uh neighbors and I I'll call the the caretaker neighbors um being involved a bit in that field. It is quite uh frustrating on the notice side only. It it goes to ownership and that I actually have some some thoughts for improvements not necessarily on our

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application but um in how that works. there are some some tricks that other land trusts do to to get notice that that might work. Um but ultimately, you know, we're sorry. Um uh you know, we we get a list from the the town. Um and it's um it's ownership based. Um and and wish you could have, you know, shared

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the plans and discussed it with you um earlier. I'm also much appreciative of the the comments in the trees as as I think you heard the the the the whole idea of of of the the sighting was was based on minimizing that and they'll continue to do that. Um we'll continue to I'll say comply. um because that's

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the word you have to use, but it's their intention to do as best they can to minimize the the trees. That's the number that's um the arborist believes based on the current location. If we can avoid that, that's what they're that's what they want to do. um uh and and certainly um uh again the the condition

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Miss Ribbon uh suggested uh to ensure that appropriate uh uh types um locations uh for uh replacements are are done jointly with the arborist and I I suspect that uh uh the arborist takes

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some some some input from um our trusted uh um preservation community um in uh maybe not on a case by case basis but in in how uh they operate in guiding uh the applicant. Uh similarly with the stormwater engineering um uh we'll

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continue to work with the the engineering department um and the town's engineer to confirm that is done appropriately and if it can be smaller um uh it's tweaked uh you know it's uh to to avoid uh additional trees that's that's what the applicant would would

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like to see happen um as well. uh it is dictated by topography um you know that particular location. So there might not be a lot of opportunity there, but again um wellreceived and it's that's the applicant's um desire to to maximize um

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that um again um uh from a you know what the actual application is. Uh it is a uh C1 hardship variance for something that was like that. um uh they are complying with all the town's um zoning uh requirements other than the thing that

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no one can change which is that the the lots um uh in this case predate uh the creation of of this zone. Um so with that I want to thank you all for your time tonight and all the the excellent uh comments uh particularly from the uh

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the neighbors and our our our um uh friends in uh in preservation. Thank you so much. >> You're welcome. Okay, board members. Um, let's go into executive session. Any questions, comments, or

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motions? Yes. I I'd like to return to the tree issue a bit. >> A little louder, please, George. >> I'm sorry. I'd like to return a bit to the tree issue. If I recur correctly, the adjacent property has been designated old growth and I am aware

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that the shade tree ordinance requires only the thickness of the trunk in terms of replacement but not the type of tree. This would be possible for us to have a condition that the type of tree that's being rep is replaced essentially

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matches the trees in the old growth designated area. Well, we have a a tree replacement ordinance and I think Karen, correct me if I'm wrong, that would really govern this and that would be administered by

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Ms. Gribbons and the and the uh the town arborist. >> Well, yeah, I'm going >> I mean certainly certainly that's certainly it's correct that you do have a a tree permit and replacement ordinance. Uh I guess what you're

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hearing from um the uh Princeton open space is that this may be a more unique area um and that there are special concerns regarding um

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this this ecosystem there. So, um, if you know it, it certainly the applicant could be asked what they're willing to do in terms of the tree replacement and the protection

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of the replacement trees because if I think I I heard correctly, the concern was also that many times replacement trees die and that's the end of that because I guess they're not required to be very big. So if they're not maintained then they they don't survive.

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Um so certainly I guess given the what's been described as somewhat unique location for this property directly adjacent to the uh John Witherspoon Woods open space.

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Perhaps that's something you could inquire from the applicant to see what they'd be willing to do. Well, why don't we why don't we put it as a condition of the approval that we recommend that they uh you know their tree replacement is

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consistent with existing species and of trees within that area. And then also a note saying that or something saying that uh now I don't

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know do they require a bond for site improvements? >> I I don't think so with a single family home. No. >> No. >> So maybe some guarantee that the uh that the tree replacement is carried out and

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protected. Um if I if I may, Mr. Chairman, um two two notes. One, um if just because many of these things are agreeable, I think to the applicant. Um but let me let me just just point out one one item. Um our our might be able to testify a little

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bit to some of the the the trees, but ultimately um I just want to make sure um there Princeton has an ordinance about the types of new trees to be planted. Some of the existing ones may not actually be desirable and maybe should

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be replaced with native species from the from the plant list. I I don't know off top of my head if any of these are perhaps invasive trees. Um also note I don't know I don't know that any of them are what's called specimen trees under the town's ordinance. But I I guess I've

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I I just note that I I think that these are good suggestions, but I want to make sure we don't get so specific that we end up with a situation that uh is is counter to the the town's ordinance. And one of those scenarios might be um if if a uh an existing tree um that is um uh

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non-native um may not be desirable to replace it with the same type um rather the arborist may prefer um a a native um species um in in place of that. Okay,

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>> Steve, I think um Miss Mer's got her hand raised. I don't know if you want to hear from her, but I see she's I see a hand raised symbol there. >> Well, at this point, I think we're in executive session and uh let's discuss it amongst ourselves.

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>> I did look take a look at the list of trees that are um going to be removed and there are some that are ash which we could, you know, be on their way out anyway. Um, I think I count 14 natives

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that are um at least 20 in in diameter and some as large. There's an oak that's 40 in in diameter. Um, those you can use the word replace, but you can't really

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replace those trees. Um, you can put another tree there, but it's not um it's I mean I I find this very concerning. Um and I think that you know while it's

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true that um they couldn't buy any property from around any of the you know around it it's it's a choice that they've made to build

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a very large house and that's triggered a lot of the problems that's caused there to be a need to move the driveway I us and to um take out some of the trees. I mean, that's a choice. And I I

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know we use the word dimminimus a lot um but I think about lot area. I mean, there's a reason that there's a requirement for the lot area um and the existing, you know, I mean, it's

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there's a huge difference between what's existing and what they're wanting um us to give give a variance for. And I I just I think I'm very concerned about I I I would really like us to

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consider not voting on this tonight and to perhaps do something that we have done in the past, which is to see if we could get an environmental impact assessment. Um because I I think this is

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not something that we I would not feel good about saying, "Well, we did the best we could here and hopefully they'll some of those trees will live that get put in." you know, there's just and and the location of,

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you know, that anywhere that a lot of trees are taken down is not great, but in particular that it's right next to the Witherspoon woods, which um we as we heard was, you know, recently

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uh added to the National Old Growth Forest Network. I mean, that's something we should be proud of and not be um careless about what goes on, what happens next to it.

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So, I'm I'm I'm I would have a hard time approving this even with any of the amendments that we're talk or modifications that we're talking about. So, what do you what specifically would

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you like in this? If we postpone the the motion, what are you what are you looking you're looking for? An environmental impact statement. That's what I Yeah, I mean I happy to have someone chime in and help me figure out how exactly to qualify that. But I

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think, you know, I think there are going to be um increased flooding issues even with um the storm storm water abatement and I think uh you know it'll be warmer. It'll have an impact on you know I know

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something about it but but I'm not an expert. I think we might want to really understand more specifically what the impact would be around that area. >> Dave, I see Michael and Bernice have their hands raised. >> Yeah, I was going to ask for other

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comments. All right, Eva, are you finished? >> Yes. >> Michael, >> um I'll I'll be supporting this application. I have um I'm aware of the

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the note that our zoning officer put in regarding a condition and the town has ordinances that are not related to us that are related to the arborist that are related to storm water

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management. The state has rules related to storm water management. The arborist knows where this is located. He he's already worked with the owner um and the owner's team. I'm I'm hearing things

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that almost sound like you don't think the arborist knows that there are large trees there and it's his responsibility in this case or her responsibility um to issue the appropriate permits when

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he's satisfied. So I think this is venturing into territory. I can't support denying this. I rather support approving it. And I understand

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some of the environmental uh concerns of some people, but I also think this is treading the things that I've been indirectly accused of, which is redesigning the application.

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Yes, I'm not. This is redesigning the house, although there has been talk about making it smaller already. That is redesigning. And I like to see applicants comply with

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ordinances. They're willing to do that. Um, and quite honestly, not have to comply with subjectivity. I am done. >> I >> I do think that the arborist only has so

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much latitude and that's a problem. So I'm not saying that he people wrote ordinances. I have to rely on them. The ordinance was written with some expert input and I'm I'm talking about

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the, you know, related to trees and and and whatnot in storm water management. It's it's almost like partially accusing the people that wrote the ordinance that they didn't know what they were doing. >> There's something unique

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about this in that it's right adjacent to the Witherspoon woods. I would You can say what you want. I will not debate you, Eve. >> Well, I mean, I I understand it's adjacent to the

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Witherspoon designated area, but it's not >> it wasn't acquired by the town or Princeton open space wouldn't acquire that particular uh park. They left some

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land unacquired. This is one. Now it should be subject to the zoning rules. The rules that govern govern trees, the rules that govern storm water. It's not >> it's not part of the park. And it could

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have been. Now they have and I'm doing Mr. Kennedy's possible argument. They have rights and they're willing to work with the arbors. >> I just lost my screen. Can you hear me? >> We can see you and hear you, Steve. >> Yeah. Uh

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wants to make a comment. >> Okay. But >> yeah, I'll I'll just add on um that the the trees that I see being removed, it is a a large number. Um they are, you know, within this area of disturbance

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which is you know pulled in away from the um the immediate um border with Witherspoon Woods. Uh I would support this with um I I I want to

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understand more about uh the table that is showing um the tree replacement fee versus the tree replacement quantity. Is it is it clear

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that uh the applicant is uh going the route of the tree replacement, not the um payment in lie of replacement. So um just the the fact that it's on the table made that unclear to me. Um and then as

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far as getting into the detail of the species, I would support leaving that to the to the arborists to be um the the one to provide, you know, guidance and

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and um approval of appropriate species because I I do see um a number of ash and I I don't know, you know, what else in these tre trees to be removed are actually

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um not preferable for this site. Uh so that that's all I wanted to add. I would I would send I understand Eve's concern and it's valid, but I I truly agree with Michael in this case that we

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have town professionals who are charged with reviewing and guiding this application through to conform with the existing requirements and I think we we have to rely on them and I I uh I think that's I

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would support this application. Well, I I would hope that we would take it as it as it's suggested that it condition shall be made that the applicant obtain any or all applicable permits for the removal and replacement

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with the municipal arborist prior to the issuance of a zoning permit. >> I think that's that's fine and I I agree with that. Yeah. I mean, that's a pretty that's stronger than I think I've seen before. And I think >> Okay.

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>> I I would have a hard time even thinking about supporting anything less than that. >> Yeah, Karen, I think that should in my opinion that should be in the >> Yeah, no problem. >> Um, okay. And and I guess just to answer the

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question, Miss Walker, are you planning on replacing trees or using the alternative method of paying for their removal? >> We plan on replacing the trees. We we want to have as many trees as possible

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for privacy and to maintain the character of the area. >> Okay. Thank you very much. All right. Um, board members, any other comments, questions?

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And if not, if someone would like to make a motion. >> So moved. Uh, I'm not sure. Do we have caveats that we're adding or not? I'm at this point. We had several things that we mentioned that we'd like in the

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audience or in the >> other than the condition that was recommended by uh Taylor in her review memo. Are there any other Oh, I think m I think Steve you also said >> uh you wanted

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Mr. PCEL >> to make determination as to whether it needs a field delineation of the wetlands. Is that right? >> Yes. I want to make sure that that he makes that final decision if they need a a wetlands delineation.

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>> Okay. And um I think everything else is within the is there anything in the tree replacement ordinance that talks about maintaining the trees, protecting

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the trees and maintaining them? I don't think there is. Can there can that be a condition? We can just say >> all of this all of this is hard to enforce really, but >> well, I mean, we I think we have to rely on our arburist um to to uh work with

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the applicant and and during construction, I believe that he does have a role in there because he's going to have to inspect or at least observe what's going on. So, I think we have to rely on him to do that. All right. So, we have a um we have a

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motion. Is that Stephen? A motion to approve? >> Yes. >> With the conditions. >> Yeah. >> Um do we have a second? >> I'll second. >> I'm sorry, >> George. >> George. Okay. >> Yeah, I will.

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>> All right. Um any questions on the motion? Okay, Claudia, can you call the role, please? >> Miss Chloria. >> Oh, sorry. >> Yes, >> Miss Coulson. >> No,

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>> Mr. Floyd. >> Yes, >> Mr. Strive. >> Yes, >> Mr. Stein. Yes, >> Mr. Dokin. >> Mute. >> Yes,

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>> Chairman Cohen. >> Yes. >> Thank you. It's approved. >> Okay. Well, thank you. >> Thank you, Miss Walker. Thank the your engineer and welcome to Princeton. >> Okay. Um board members, if there's

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nothing else, this meeting will be adjourned. >> Good night. >> Thank you very much. >> Good night. >> Good night.