It is Tuesday, fe February 10th, 2026. It is now 2 o'clock and we will hold our board of county commissioner special um workshop. We will have an invocation led by Commissioner Harvey followed by a pledge of allegiance by Commissioner Newold.
Please stand if you're able to do so. Let us pray. Gracious heavenly father, we thank you for today, day we've never experienced before in our life. Lord, we ask that you just watch over this workshop meeting. Give us guidance directly from your throne room. Give us
inspiration. Let us talk freely, Father, with each other and our audience today, Father. Lord, let us just put everything on the table and move Putnham County forward as we can do today. Father, we thank you that we can call upon you in this great country, in this great state
that we live in. And Lord, we just thank you for all the blessings that you bestow upon us. In Christ's name we pray. Amen. >> To God. >> All right. Thank you. Um, we will have a public comment time in
just a moment, but before I get started, what we will do, um, gentlemen, is we're going to, this isn't formal. It is a workshop, but I do want to have some semblance of organization. So, the buttons still work. Let's try not to interrupt each other and and that kind of stuff if we can keep from doing that.
Um, public comment. Is there anybody um who would like to speak regarding public comments? You have anything, Miss Debbie? All right. And of course, uh, we can have some other time for that as well. Is there anybody in the audience wants to speak right now? Okay. The
first item, um, for business is the information technology office relocation. Um, as you know, this has been brought up at the dis and um, we've asked staff to do their best to give us what informations and concerns they have
and also whatever concerns or information we have as um, elected officials. So, is there anybody who wants to start off with this? >> Are you looking for staff to start? >> Are you looking for your board? >> We'll start with board. Do you have
comments, Commissioner? >> Sure. Let's get the party started. Um, you know, we we were I think we've all been down to the IT office. Um, you know, my my background is in mechanical contracting maintenance, HVAC. Uh, the
first time I traveled to the IT office, there were initial there were definitive concerns when I walked in regarding the air quality, um, mold remediation. Uh I saw you know I think at the time there were still buckets on the floor collecting water and uh we have very
sensitive computers and electronics located in that area much less um very valuable employees too. Um so I think that we need to address that issue as to whether or not we want to
repair that facility which I know now talking to Mr. grimes that the roof is repaired, but there was an issue. Somebody decided it was a good idea to put a plastic water bottle in one of the vents, which didn't help. Um, but there's definitely an issue there, and that's the purpose of this meeting is to
find a direction on what we want to do. >> So, I'd like to open the floor to my other commissioners, see what your opinions are, and also talk to staff and get their opinion and and determine a direction for this department, and then we'll move on to another one. >> All right. Um, I'll go ahead with you, Miss
Julianne, before we move forward. I know you were about to have some comments. You're good. >> Um, Commissioner, just as a as a general um, as board direction, we met with um, it who kind of gave a comprehensive
overview of the complexities of what is needed for that division. And it's obviously much more than just a clerical division based on the amount of equipment and the number of agencies that they support through that equipment. So when we talk about
relocation department for that particular division, it's not just the people but also the components and and systems that go with them or are needed to be supported by them. So and this has not been a new conversation. We've been kind of discussing this for a number of
years and we've made some steps already in transitioning some of that infrastructure. Um but there is some remaining infrastructure. Mr. Richie was not able to be here today. He's under the weather. Um but I did include in the packet um his commentary on both uh page
four and five and six as well as his um most recent update which is simply that even though we'd love to transition over we can we can certainly transition staff but fully vacating that premises is going to be very very complex for them.
Um so there just some some complexities to think about with that particular division. I'm happy to guide you through any other questions that you might have. >> All right. Thank you. Uh, Commissioner Harvey, you're recognized. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. You know, I think this is a long time coming. Been here a long time and we've been talking
about renovating these areas. I think this is a good move for us to be looking at. Do want to be mindful though. Um, I think the two we're going to eat the apple one bite at a time. Right. >> Right. >> And we're only going to be able to take probably small bites as we can afford to
do it. Yep. But I think we need to have a long-term plan as we go down this road for all of our buildings throughout the county. I think this is a easy, not the easy lift, but it's the first bite that we really need to take. And um I'm
looking forward to what it would take to to make that Pantry Pride building, if you will, um functional for it and for veterans. So, I am looking forward to the conversation. Again, we got a lot of planes in the air. We got a lot of
promises out there. Keep in mind that better place plan does run out in a few years. So that's our 1 cent sales tax. If the public doesn't vote that back in, we have some financial obligations that are still on the hook for that. So we just need to be mindful of that as we go
forward. But this commissioner is all about fixing those two departments and putting them in that building. So thank you, Madam Chair. >> Okay. Commissioner Pelister, you're recognized. Um, for those of you who have never never been in the IT department, I'm gonna keep all the these
comments uh focused on that area. That is a just a a really confined area. There's just no room to move up there to do anything and let alone I'm sure expansion one day has got to happen in that area and there's nowhere to expand it. I could see up
there. So, I think it's imperative that we um make whatever space we need to make and as Commissioner Harvey said, bite the apple off one piece at a time. from my understand because of the financial um constraints of it. But we definitely need this needs to move
forward if any way possible with with getting them the space they need plus some room to grow into. And uh if we can do that, I think we're definitely moving the county forward and and doing good works. Thank you, Madam Chair. >> Okay. And um I want to make sure that um
that you all have taken the time to read uh this attachment. It does talk in there regarding the relocation project and the fact that the IT department had looked at um four spaces. One was the old health department space. Um one actually the board behind the board
chambers suite 700 and suite 550. And then he goes on in here to discuss some of the the challenges with each one of those um discussions about relocation. Um with that, go ahead, Commissioner um
Alexander. Yes ma'am. So >> we can agree that as a consensus that the IT department needs to be moved or needs to be renovated. So that we've established that >> I believe so. Okay. >> Without doubt. >> So now we just need to figure out which
one choice A, B, C or D that we do. and the the options that were presented all leave to me some room for discoverables and some some unanswered questions that we won't
be able to get a value on until we actually get midway through that project. While I love the idea of renovating the spaces down here, I also am entertaining the idea of building new facilities because we have a finite cost
of what it took us to build the animal control shelter as well as the uh solid waste facility out there. Both of those, correct me if I'm wrong, were in the 300 to $400,000 range. >> Yes, sir. That's correct.
>> Okay. And so it it brings to light an interesting point that as we've discussed before once we get over the 50% threshold in accommodation of this building we have to update the entire fire sprinkler system. >> Yes.
>> So for my turn >> and so we need to figure out what our total cost is going to be on one option versus another. And if if this involves I know last time we talked about we're not going to get a contractor to bid on it
unless they give us you know unless we give them the contract or whatever. Well, I would rather spend $10,000 or whatever the cost is to get a firm price so that we can make an accurate determination of whether you know this is the way to go or that's the way to
go. But we know what it costs to build those two buildings. We need a good summation of what it's going to cost here. Do we have structurally deficient walls, roof, other things that we may encounter that aren't, you know, aren't visible now and they going to push us over that threshold in addition to the
fire sprinkler system. Um, so we can spend $10,000 and not make a million-doll mistake. So, I don't know what the cost would be to have that inspected, but I do know what it cost us to build those other two buildings. Um, you know, there's been discussion
about the electrical service. sits down on that end of the building. So, if we looked at demolishing those buildings, then we have to talk about redoing the entire electrical system for the facility. So, there's a lot of variables in there. But, I do know that if we took some of the vacant area or even where
the old first federal building is and we put a new structure in there, it's going to be $300 to $400,000. Correct. So, we know what that we know what that cost is going to be. And based on what you said or what we had we discussed earlier, we're talking $200 a square
foot per renovation because a lot of people what they neglect to think about when you do a renovation such as this, you pay for not quite twice the labor because you're tearing it down. Then you got to put it back up. So your cost, it seems like it might be cheaper on the on the front end. there's some additional
stuff in there that that may come up that that will push your costs higher than they they could have been on a new facility that we can build to cater to that group. And anytime you take and modify a facility to fit a need versus building something that is, you know, structurally exactly what this group
needs, somebody's going to have to make a compromise. Somebody's not going to get what they need to do their job correctly. So those are the things that I'm looking at. Commissioner Palis, you're recognized. >> Um, Commissioner Wilson, I heard you say that here behind us was possible
location. >> They had considered it. >> They had considered. I don't know what the square footage is in there, but somewhere and I may I've read 5,000 square feet is was a request. I may have getting that tangled up with the uh veteran affairs. I don't know if ma'am or not. I've read so much. But anyhow,
one thing we could be very mindful about if we if this was adequate, we move back here. you're not tripping the threshold of of your sprinkler system area, then that that whatever that might be that would cause us a problem. So, that would be an added plus to putting it here if
that's not going to be in our way in the future. I mean, or the commissioner's way. So, I don't know what all stored or done back here. So, I would refer to somebody that knows more about it than I. Thank you, Madam Chair. >> We um I thought that um that's a good comment. Um Go ahead, Mr. Grimes.
>> So, sorry. Um spoke with Mr. Weedson just a little bit ago. Um and trying to figure out where some of these trigger points are going to be, right? Um we spoke about the area next to veterans currently. Um and so we could keep this
kind of in mind. We're going to have to put a roof over top of the um supervisor of elections because that's the one area of this building that didn't get completed. So that roof is going to have to be redone over top of that one. So that's going to be another project on top of the the
remodel space. Um, but we did talk with Mr. Weedson and of his opinion, and of course he's here in the room with us now, so he could absolutely correct me if I was wrong, was that he was not totally against us being able to do a like forlike exchange of working in the office next door to veterans and also,
I'm going to get them wrong, the 700, the 550, whatever is on the far end that has been occupied in the last little bit. The minute that we encroach into that 19,000 square feet is what's going to trigger it um into the pantry. I think y'all are referring to it as the Pantry Pride section because we're right
at the trip point today, right? There is no can we take 3,000 square foot off of the Pantry Pride building. It's the minute we go in there, we're going to retrofit the entire complex. Um, of course, in his code, it does not reference um fire suppression. It's in
the fire code. Um, so I'm going to tell you if I was the fire marshal at the time, um, and I did have a background in that, I do not view, um, the supervisor of elections and where veterans is as a separate building. Uh, because in our book, the veteran that says you have to
have physical separation and with a canopy in between them is not physical separation. That means we have a common roof between the two buildings. But if he allows it underneath his code for us to, I don't I think we can get through there as long as we don't approach the 19,000 square foot pantry
pride. The minute we do, that's when we're going to do this building. We're going to do this behind us. We're going to do the entire complex at that point. >> So, is it your opinion that the building next the old bank building I guess that's completely separate? >> The the bank building. Yes, ma'am. The
old First Coast Community Credit Union >> for evaluation purposes as well. Now that I I can't speak to that >> because I thought the percentage was based on evaluation purp is it is it not based >> we we've already tripped that we tripped that when we added this portion of the building on when they because you can only do so many remodels right so this
this portion of the building was part of that threshold back in the day right when we remodeled this what you're currently sitting in and the pieces next door eat up that 50%. And I when I talked to Mr. Wadeson he kind of walked us through that and I and that's where his opinion finally lied. >> Okay. So my I guess my question is the
bank building has no effect on it one way or the other. >> No ma'am because you have physical separation because it's over 10 feet. That's a whole separate structure than this one. >> Okay. Okay. Uh Commissioner Harvey, you're recognized. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. So following along with Commissioner
Alexander's point, remodel versus new and the optics of us building new and still having old. Let's go with that for just a second. Would it be better for us to build new
and then tear down for separation purposes that we don't have to ever worry have this conversation again? Or would it just be better because we don't want to th trip the threshold of sprinklers, but sprinklers are there for a reason, right? They're
there to protect the public and our employees. So, would it be better for us to do the whole complex and be in protection or tear down some buildings and create some some space and build a new one? And I think that's the the
questions that are floating in my mind after what I heard Commissioner Alexander say. So, and what I'm hearing you talk about, you know, is maybe there needs to be a redesign, if you will, and and maybe we got land. We we know that.
So, we could easily do something, but maybe a redesign like that because it would be hard for me to justify building a new building and leaving these old building sitting there unoccupied. That would be that's a hard that's because people would say, why don't you just
they don't they're not going to understand fire suppression and all that. They're not going to get that. So, I think that's the talk we need to have, too, is what are the pros and cons here, you know? Thank you, Madam Chair.
>> Thank you. So, um I will say um when we looked at the IT department, we were looking at the two suites that had been previously used. We were not, as far as I knew, we've never talked about moving into the 19,000 square feet of what we call the old Pantry Pride. It would have
been either the part that's at the very end for the sheriff's office or where the sheriff's office was at one time or the old laundromat, right? >> Well, not the laundry mat. it would have been the hair salon but and and that's part of the value of our workshop today. I think there were a lot of different
ideas by a lot of independent um people up up um that that are trying to look for solutions, right? >> So it was kind of all over the board as to what the was was being looked at. >> Um and so that's what we're looking for
you guys to give us your preference on. >> What is the square footage of suite 500 550? I'm going to tell you roughly 2,00 of 500 and and somewhere in there. Um 550.
You're talking the old sheriff's office. >> 2500. >> You're saying 2,550? >> Yeah, the the sheriff's office is significantly smaller where the sheriff's office calls the visitation section was is it was quite significantly smaller. It's going to be around 2500 ft. I think the other one was
>> right around 4,000 um where the old laundry mat was. I think >> I think so. Yes, ma'am. But I mean, all that stuff was occupied. And of course, I don't want to speak for Mr. Wson, but he's thinking we could probably do that underneath the level two alteration, which doesn't affect >> the overall scope of the building because at some point when this building
was up and functionally operational, it was being used, right? So, we don't really have a change use. Now, we can't take that same space down there that once was a hair salon and make it a restaurant because that's a change of use, right? It was all merkantile or business at one point. So if we go changing the use of it, if we make it a
nightclub or we make it whatever, right? Just just whatever. So we don't list leave space out for that makes a change of use. Then you have to trigger the entire building again. >> Okay. >> So as long as it stays relatively close to what it was, right, was generalized
retail sales or business occupancy. >> And then I look um I know you've got I gota I'll get to you in just a second, Commissioner. um the phased approach on uh page five we have staff relocation versus the data center relocation. So
understanding that um just what it says it's not a simple move it um the recommendation would be phased in a strategic process that addresses both personnel and infrastructure. So um we have infrastructure in both
downtown area and also at the EOC and uh for the data center and both of those are secured data areas and they also are secured with a backup generator. Correct. Okay.
>> Okay. >> There is not a viable option for a generator at this location. So that as we talk again, some of the not not the the complexities of this move are that um some components of that would still
need to be secured at that downtown location for as long as we maintain ownership of that building and until or unless we identify an alternative spot for some of that critical infrastructure. >> Okay. So, if we were looking at just um
the phase one approach, which is staff relocation, um I know we have this drawing behind us and it's a almost 5,000 square feet. This proposal would be in which section of the building do we know? >> Staff it staff drew that as their
desire. It was not drawn as a retrofit to any one particular location. >> Oh, okay. this was their ideal office setup. Um, again, there are some probably some efficiencies that we could pick up with
some modifications. Um, and if we were applying that to one of these locations, um, then of course you would modify the layout some to make sure we still accommodate staffing needs, but obviously it wouldn't look exactly like this,
>> right? I know that I had James. I'm sorry. I'm pulling it up on my phone. Um, see, no, I don't see it. He didn't have that drawing. Um, okay. Uh, Commissioner Alexander, you're recognized. >> There was a lot going on there. Almost
lost my train of thought, but so where we're at now, Mr. Grimes, how far are we from triggering that threshold? It's a two-part question. and are we allowed those uh spaces that were occupied to be incorporated into a redesign without uh
overtaking that threshold such as the sheriff's office, the pet salon and all that that were most recently occupied. >> Yes, sir. That that's kind of where we covered, right? Mr. Wson was lenient enough to say, "Okay, anything we've occupied in the past, right, which would be from the pantry pride to over towards
West over, including the the wraparound to um the supervisor elections and the veteran services office. So all of that that we once occupied, as long as I don't want to speak for Mr. Wson, as long as we don't encroach on that 19,000 square foot of unoccupied space, he was
fine with doing a level two type alteration." >> Okay? and and that will >> and we can't change occupancies >> and that will not push us beyond that threshold where we have to upgrade the entire facility. >> Correct. Yes, sir. >> Okay, good. Well, that that's good to know because that's that's a huge
implication on that. >> But with with that being said, so the Pantry Pride area could still remain unoccupied physically, but we could utilize that as a storage facility. >> Yes, sir. That's what it's being used for today, right? So that's what it's
been since it's been here is has been a storage facility, right? So until we change the occupancy from storage. So when we go in there and change it from storage to business or storage to whatever, right, that's when it's going to trigger >> the change of use of the building. >> Good deal. I just I want a definitive answer so people in cyber world and
myself could could reference that. >> Additionally, so if we and this is, you know, a little bit further down the road, but we're we're discussing what these things are going to cost and how we're going to pay for them. So, at that point, we could take and move a lot of the material that are in that's in the
highway patrol building over in East Palaca back into this area and potentially sell that property to offset the cost of these renovations for the county. >> Commissioner, um, I'd really like us to focus on the it and then just doing the order and then have that bigger discussion, focus on the way we have it
on the agenda. Commissioner Palisier. >> Um, it's been so long. I'm like Alexander much everything's run everywhere and gone different directions. >> Um I I agree with Commissioner U what's your name again? Yeah, Harvey.
>> That um um the to the general public and you don't utilize the space that we have here. They don't understand or will not understand why you didn't use it. And that'll be a huge discussion of you've got a building over there and it by the way it doesn't leak or not that I know. I've been in it. I didn't see any wet
spots, but that's going to be an issue there for one. I don't know if this would u and I'd hate to do it, but if you take out that breezeway, does that salvage or make us able to not break that threshold that you're
talking about? >> He's saying you don't break it if you leave the >> We don't break it until we encroach on the 19,000 square foot of the pantry project. >> That's what he's talking about. you get 190. >> No, the the the second we touch that you can remove whatever you can you can knock the whole supervisor of election
side down. The minute you go in there, you're going to have to do the whole entire building. One one piece of pipe that runs through the pantry pride. We have triggered the threshold. Doesn't matter what else we do to the building. >> It's not >> it's the square footage of the building
and the change of the use of the building that's going to require it to be done. >> Okay. I'm I'm for now I'm satisfied. We'll move on. >> Um, Commissioner Newer recognized. >> He may have said this.
>> He may have stated this earlier, but in that space that we have available that we can utilize before we trigger the whole shebang. What is the square footage in that space more or less um discounting just at the end of this building before
you make the L? You've got a you got a restaurant in there too. So you what you have is you have vacant space on the on one side of the restaurant space on the other. Yeah. >> But even including even including the restaurant. >> Okay. >> I'm just curious as to that square footage.
>> Yep. >> But to me as you make the corner, we're kind of already made the commitment to dedicate that to veteran services in my mind >> on the the piece that's next to veteran services. >> Correct. Yes.
So just >> roughly. >> Okay. So let's talk. Can we can we reverse B with A for just one second? >> Sure. >> Because we already I've got a budgetary estimate on there which may help the conversation go a lot better. >> So I I walked a contractor through the
building and says, "What do you think it would cost to replace a storefront glass to accommodate the six offices?" and we floated around the the the the plan roughly of, you know, creating I think it was six more offices, a visitation room, a little small conference room, all that. Now, this is we we're not talking about doing any roof work, okay?
Because that's that still needs to be done. >> You're looking at he told me somewhere you're going to probably between $250 and $300,000 to to reclaim that space and make it functional and usable the way that it was designed on that plan. Right. And that was I'm going to tell you that's roughly 2500 3,000. No. Um I
I I don't want to give you a bad number, but that's what that space was in there. Um that was a rough budgetary estimate on what we had a really small scale drawing. He thought we could probably pull off for somewhere in the neighborhood of 250 to $300,000. >> And that's that's be that's just getting
it into into a shell. >> That's to get No, that's getting the the veteran services into open the doors to where you can serve clientele about 300 grand. >> Veteran services. Okay. I'm sorry. >> Yes, sir. And then I mean I'm gonna tell you it's probably going to be twice that much to come around the corner and build
twice the space for it. If we if we stick with a 5,000 square foot price tag. I mean you're probably going to come around the corner and spend 600 700 grand. >> That that puts me back to the the question of the old first federal building and and why we don't just it's
my understanding that that building is beyond its useful life and and not worth a rehabilitation. >> That's correct. And I don't recall, it's not a very big building, but there's space out there. It makes me wonder why we don't get rid of that and put it there. I mean, at some point in time
when we have the need and and have have identified use for the balance of this, we're going to have to bite off the fire suppression and the whole kitten kaboodleoodle. But I think, you know, we talked about the public looking at it and saying, "Why don't you use space you already have?" And they won't understand
that. Well, they understand dollars and and if if you say, "Hey, it costs us, you know, $2 million to do this and $500,000 to solve this problem in the short term." I I I think people understand that.
Anyway, >> ma madam chair, and just just to give some more perspective, the sanitations building that we built at Solid Waste was 2500 square feet, brand new, turnkey, was $397,000. What did you say? It was 397.
>> 397. Yes, ma'am. >> Yes, sir. Approximately 2500 square f feet uh turnkey was $397,000. >> Yes, sir. What was >> animal control? When we separated the the building out,
>> the office the office building itself was approximately 400,000 for 3,000 square feet. And um I know this is the drawing that it submitted based on their um looking toward the future, but um certainly we
could scale this down. This is a 5,000 almost 5,000 square foot area and um we again we don't h we we don't know exactly what's at the end of this building. What what did you did you determine that square footage wise?
>> I wrote it down but I don't have it with me but I will I will get you a measurement before we get out of here. >> Somebody can pull that up. Somebody pull this up. It can't be that hard. We >> we we'll work on that. >> I got you. >> Okay. Thank you. Um, it's hard. I I think we're we're back to
where we were to begin with, which is um it's hard for us as a board and it's hard for you as a staff um to say, "Well, what do we do next?" And I'm in I'm while we can talk about a new building, we don't know what the building is going
to cost to renovate. And until we know what the building's going to cost to renovate, then we can't make an informed decision on which which one to choose. Um, so I think that's the same challenge that we were facing earlier.
Commissioner uh Pelister recognized. >> U Madam Chair, thank you. Um, I have a sketch here that u Mr. Suggs got me quite a while back when we toured the U Pantry Pride building, if you will. And if we could maybe let Miss Barardi run make eight or nine t copies and pass
them out, it might help everybody kind of stay on point. >> Are these based on the sweet? >> This is No, this is strictly pantry pride there and this is what we currently occupy. >> I don't know that that would help us. We're looking at what's at the very end. >> I understand that, but I'm just so you never mind. You don't think it'll help? Okay.
>> Well, it'll help for the next discussion. >> Okay. >> You want to do that one? Okay. Sure. Sorry. Um, that's why it's called a workshop. Commissioner Alexander. So, that brings me back to the end of my
discussion from earlier. Um I would rather engage an architect and um a contractor to get a firm cost on what it's going to take to renovate those buildings on a square foot basis or you know getting it as close to what
our desire is for those those two departments before we make a decision on which way we're going to go because again like I said I would rather spend 10 grand than make a million dollar mistake. Um, I'm I definitely my goal at the end of this meeting is to provide
staff with a direction, but also we need to make an informed decision instead of a bad decision. So, I think it would behoove us as a county to spend that money to get a a physical quote and then make a decision based on that quote to
renovate our existing space versus building new stuff. So, >> any thoughts? >> I'm had my mind on something else. I'm sorry. I'm thinking of somebody.
>> Any thoughts on that? >> I do. Thank you, Madam Chair. Commissioner Alexander, I'm in full support of that. I believe that's the right way to go. I think when we talk like that though, we do need to look at somebody who can look at all the buildings. If we trip the threshold,
what does it cost us to trip it? if we don't have a use for it. You know, I agree that when I said the fact that the optics are hard to explain, they are hard to explain because when when you say, well, if you want to talk to a
constituent and you and you have the ability to to debate with them, you can say, "Yeah, it cost us cheaper to build than it did to renovate." But you we don't have that position sometimes. Sometimes it's in social media. it's gone before we can ever capture the narrative and trying to get it back is
now does it really hurt us? I don't know that. But I'm just saying I think we do need to be mindful of that. But I'm also the mind of if we have a 19,000 square foot building that we can't ever use, then why have a 19,000 foot square foot
building? Let's tear the thing down. Make it a breezeway. Make it a concrete pad. put picnic tables on it and have people sit out there. Whatever we can do, but it but our public now is going, you have all this room and you can't do
anything. So, I'm with you. I think we need to find somebody that can tell us what we don't know and go forward at that point and say these are your options and show them that number one, we got to show them what we want to do, right? These are the the things we want
to do. We want to put this building here. We want to put this office there and see what the see what the outcome would be because right now we don't know what we don't know. So I appreciate that. Thank you, Madam Chair. Very well put. >> So what um so just to make sure that we
all agree we all agree on a couple things. We all agree that we want to see it moved over here. Do we all agree on that? >> Yes. >> Okay. Do we all agree that we're looking at a staff relocation in a in one phase
and a phase two as far as the data center at a separate time? >> Makes sense. >> What remains down there would be handled separately. Okay. So, okay, we got a couple things we agree on. Um, then the third thing comes to what size
does this does the it actually need and is there space already in our building at the end. Okay, thank you. >> So, currently um you have a total of all of them down there of 9,400 square feet
>> of vacant >> not including the restaurant, >> not including the the Pantry Pride in the middle. You got 9,400 square feet to the west over side of Pantry Pride today. >> Okay. >> One of them is 4,800 square feet, one of them is 3,000 and one of them is 1600.
>> No, that's totally separate. And I think um so do we know if this drawing that was estimated was based on the 4,800 square foot? >> I know it says 4,900 and something, but I remember James.
Yeah. >> This that's in our packet. >> Oh, no. No, ma'am. That again was drawn by the IT department. They they just drew up their ideal plan. This this was
not a plan that was particular to be inserted into any existing predisposed notion of where they were going to go. This was just an an ideal scenario for them. >> Okay. So, which partial which one is the
4,800 square feet? >> Um, >> the furthest to the end, the one on this side >> would be the third from the end. Madam chair, point order. >> Would it for me it would be helpful if they have a map from the pantry pride on that way to the end of the breezeway and
any other thing going towards supervisor elections. That'd be helpful for us to be looking at. So we're looking at the same square footage numbers. >> My map it it what I'm looking at is is literally just a drawing that breaks the suits. >> Okay. >> Okay. So I think what he's asking is could we get that on our monitor? >> Right. And I'm just
>> monitor or hard copy whatever. Um, James, can I mean, Jacob, can you get me um access to to display onto the podium? >> Thank you. >> I think that's a good idea. While you're doing that, uh, Commissioner Alexander,
you're recognized. You have other comments or you did. >> These workshops are different, aren't they? I'll get back to you on that. >> Okay. All right,
>> Madam Chair, just just for the record, uh the the paper just handed out, that was a uh information that I got Mr. Leo to give me several several months ago. Okay. So, uh you know, this is this is the information that was provided by the chief building official just so we'd
have a square footage. >> Okay. So, and while we're while they're pulling this up, the square footage that says 20,115 is what? Pantry Pride. >> That's what we refer to as Pantry Pride. And the 26,470 is sweet 100.
>> That's our current our current office. Okay. Thank you. >> That's everything from building and zoning back. >> Okay. So, >> yeah. >> Yeah. >> Does everybody understand that? Okay. >> And the other pieces we're talking about are here. >> This 20,000 is from is the is the pantry
pride and then everything else, >> correct? which they said was 9,400 >> west of that building. >> That's what they're working on getting us a map of >> everything beyond Pantry Pride, >> right? Oh, well, while they're working on that, I did have some of that some of it came
back to me. But, um, as Mr. Harvey was saying, you know, we we were elected to make the best decisions, best fiscal decisions for our community. And you know we need to collect all the data so that when somebody does come to us and ask why we did this it because we bas we
basic fact we did the research and and you know this is the decision we came up based on that information that provided us with the best future path moving forward for the county. So if like I you know we have this facility if we can use it fine but if if it's cost prohibitive
and we can get three buildings to accommodate three different services for the same price that we could for renovating that we would be foolish to do that >> and then we would have to answer to that. I think that's a discussion we have to have once we have the numbers obviously. But it's hard for me and and my little peep picking brain to
understand why we couldn't use 4,800 square feet that's already existing and that it would be more expensive than building a brand new building. >> Yeah. >> But I think that's probably the way most citizens will think. But I guess we won't know till we see those numbers. >> Madam Chair, I agree with you 100%. It's
hard to comprehend. How could we have four walls and a roof that >> then we can't go in and modify what we need to modify and that still be cheaper than from the ground up? >> I can't I just It's already got the ground. It's already got the zoning. It's already got the >> the concrete floor and the concrete
walls. >> I I agree with you. And if we can, that's what we need to do. But, you know, I'll tell you a brief story and I'll I'll give you my best Larry Harvey imperson impersonation. I bought a Mustang. I bought a Mustang years ago for my wife for $2,000
and I put about $6,000 into it and I was just about $3,000 short of having a $1,500 Mustang. >> That's right. >> And I don't want us to be in that same position. >> Yes. So, I just want to make sure we
collect all the data and even if it cost us a little bit of time, a little bit of money to to asssure that we're making the right decision, let's just do that. >> Well, we already had um CRG come in front of us and they basically said, "What is it you want?" And we never gave them what we wanted. >> Yep. And now we are going to have a
direction at the end of this meeting one way or another. That is my goal. >> We're getting there. >> Getting there. >> Yeah. And >> Mr. SGS, did you have anything you wanted to add or Mr. drives >> as soon as Miss Young and it can get that pulled up so you guys can have it.
I think it'll be much more helpful that time. >> Yeah. All right. We're going to take a few minute break while this where they're doing that. Thank you. All right, we have the map in front of us. >> I I can. Thank you. Um, is your mic on? Yeah, but but you're multi-talented, so
I'm not worried about you. >> Yes, ma'am. I appreciate your vote of confidence there. I'll take that. >> You got this. >> Okay. So, >> very good. Thank you. >> Yes, ma'am. If you can follow my pointer, that is what we are lovingly referring to as the old video visitation. That's 16,000 square foot.
>> 1600. Yep. Yep. >> 1600. I'm sorry. The one beside it there is what used to be a hair salon. >> Yep. And then immediately adjacent there would be what we would call uh the old laundry mat. And then this 1,200 square
foot is the current restaurant that exists. >> Okay. >> Moving down from there, we have um the two buildings what we are calling Pantry Pride and the building that we are occupying. >> All right. Go back to the first one.
>> Yes, ma'am. >> Look at you, Clay, with all this great mapping online. and I knew it was available. Good job. >> Good job, Julian pulling it up. Thank you. >> Very helpful. Um, >> very helpful. >> Yeah. So, I guess in my mind, I had
always thought that the 4,800 square foot be especially whenever we talked about the loading dock on the back. I know there's some concerns about that as well, but it did give them the ability to unload equipment on the other side of the fence versus they're having to go upstairs. So, I had always in my head at
least thought the 4,800 square foot would work. Um, I don't care. They can configure it however they want to. It already has bathrooms, too. You're not having to build new bathrooms. It has bathrooms and plumbing already in it. Granted, the plumbing would have to be upgraded. I get it.
>> No. What? It does have bathrooms. I would looked at them. restaurant >> is the restaurant and then you're going towards >> WT over. >> Well, it might not be the entire loading dock, but it's got a you can back your
car up to the back door. If the 4,800 wh what happened there? If the 4,800 uh square foot piece needed a loading dock, certainly that could be constructed. That would not be >> right. I don't know. That would be a matter anyway. But um maybe it was because you turned out here and went
behind this one that said 3,000. There's a door right there at the end. Um either way, it has something back there. Um, what I would like to see, and so I guess I need direction from staff, if we wanted to build out the 4,800 square
foot or the 3,000, do we have to spend $10,000 for an engineered drawing? I mean, we can't do this and and then once we, in other words, could we take that 4,800 foot and have Richie do his um his design of what he would like to see in that building because that does include
the bathrooms. um if he was able to take that and overlay something, right? That you can't we can't take that to a to a um to a GC and say, "Hey, come look at this building and give us an idea."
>> $10,000 just >> because you're asking we're being asked, which is fair. I'm not saying it's not fair, but you're we're saying, well, from staff's perspective, you're what I remember you guys saying was we can't do something unless it's funded, right? Like you like it's an unfunded project.
So, how much do you want to put toward it? Well, I don't know how much to put toward it. I mean, that could it could be a kill kill the deal right off the get-go. >> Yeah. I mean, we can if if you guys will to determine what space you want, I can get you a proposal that we can bring back to the board that says it's going
to cost X because we we can draw all we want. Somebody's going to have to sign, seal, and stamp permittable plants. Right. >> Right. >> So, I mean, it would be no different than what we're did right there. I mean, we can get a very rough estimate on what it would cost, but I mean, somebody eventually is going to have to give us a proposal, right? And we can bring a
proposal back to you guys and say it's going to cost $100,000 for plans and then >> then they're going to put the plans on the street and then it's going to have to come back with a number. Um, and then we we don't know what the number is until, you know, it comes back, right? So, um I mean we can get you a rough
idea. I mean I can take the square footage of what we just did. I mean because you're really the same scale design as what we just did at um well not neca the the when we looked I had the contractor come down and do the >> real quick look at um veteran services
to get those guys expanded over there. >> Um Miss Julian, what's what was the what what's the square footage of that piece? Is that one that you have there >> of veterans of the piece? >> 2000 >> 2000. So around $150 $160 a square foot I'd
say was probably ballpark of what it cost to build that piece out. >> The the the quote was roughly 250, right? >> 250 to 300 was just a general. >> So if we're going to double that, you're going to be half a million dollars plus the engineering >> design >> and design
for the IT area >> for 5,000 square foot. >> It's correct. >> Correct. >> Just by the numbers. >> Yep. Yep. And that's, you know, what I was going to suggest. You know, we just did a a remodel on SMA, which we're all very proud of. And then we're doing a remodel out there at the sheriff's office on the old um driving range. So,
we we've got some estimates that are pretty close on what real real numbers are going to be because we have two projects running concurrently. Um, you know, that's that kind of gives us an idea. I had forgotten about those. So, we kind of have an idea what renovation costs are now. >> What were those?
>> They're jumping ahead of you, Commissioner. I'm sorry. So I think the >> they both >> can I answer Mr. New's question? Yes. I just kind of just trying to keep your order that you asked for. Um so the insight building was roughly I'm going
to tell you somewhere around two 2200 2300 foot. >> Is that the sheriff's office? >> The sheriff's office. Yes, sir. That was $380,000 plus plus a $20,000 septic system. So, we're going to be $400,000 into the remodel of that 2,000 square feet
and it had no bathroom work. It had I mean, we changed the fixtures, right? Um, and we added a shower. Um, and then we painted the walls, put flooring down. I mean, but we kept the same mechanical systems. A lot of it is the same. And it was 380. And then what we just did at
SMA, I I did not get a square footage of SMA. I'm going to say it's probably 5,000 square feet. >> That's where I would put it. um was $68,000 >> to do just >> truly paint and flooring and some odd end I mean they built a couple barrack
type walls but I mean it was no major construction >> and both of those numbers are net the design uh engineering plans that had to be done >> and your um on your septic you said uh for for the insight was how much >> I think 13,000 >> okay
all right uh Commissioner Pelis you're recognized Um, everyone, I think we should bear in mind that we're not constrained to this 1,600 square feet or this 3,000 square feet and that wall that's there. We could easily knock a hole in that wall and put in a doorway.
You could take the 1600 foot side, bring it back to square it up with the 3,000 foot side if we need to add on if we needed that space. We're This is This is This is what we have. It's not what we're tied to. We could we could expand upon this drawing in any direction pretty well not any but you know
>> I would just reason like Mr. Wade said to answer that question um if he if he would >> okay then that that that answers that question whether it's a whether whether it's a level one or level two remodel right I don't know how far he wants to push his needle on which one's which
>> okay thank you thank you Madam Chair >> Commissioner Harvey >> thank you Madam Chair so Mr. Grimes. Um, I was talking to you at the end of the break about the electricity work and asked you if we could bring a generator. Let's just say we're in this section
down here, the 3,000 square foot or the 4,800. Your concern, you had some concerns about the electricity in the generator. Would you expound upon that? >> Yes. Yes, sir. So, back whenever the we did the roofing project on here and we
didn't do the roof over top of the old cooler that's in behind the pantry pride, there's two switch gears back there um that I was told at the time was about a 18-month delay to get them. Um I said, "Can we get a generator in here to run the building?" He said, "Not the whole thing." Because it's just the way
this thing is wired, right? It was brought in from the two services and it there's ways it crosses back and forth. Um, I was told by the electricians then that you'd have to sep, you'd have to segregate it. You'd have to redo it down there and just wire your hardcore infrastructure into a generator. Could you put a generator here? Yeah, but you
just have to put just what you needed it for your dedicated resource that you're needing to power, whether it be your IT equipment or whatever. But to do the whole entire building, they told me no. But I'm not an electrician. I just went on the professional advice of the ones that came here. I've talked to two of
them that said that it couldn't be done. not the way the building's currently wired. >> So my question is if we went from if we did the 1260 west. Okay. Could we cut the electricity off there, start over with new electricity and just forget and
then put a generator there just to handle that part? >> That's going to be an electrical engineer that tells us that. I I truly I can't answer that question. >> Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. >> All right, Commissioner Alexander. >> Commissioner Harvey, were your questions regarding the generator? was that in um
regards to supporting the hardware for it in that area. So during my conversation with Mr. Richie um and maybe Jacob can expound on it a little bit, but the majority of the critical systems are either already moved to the
AOC center or going to be moved to the EOC center. So, I don't believe the criticality is there that the that that might be a determining factor as to whether or not we did this on this building. Um, while I have the floor though, Madam Chair, I do have a
question. >> Um, for I don't know if it would be for Mr. Fur Leo or for Mr. Grimes, but oh, back in the day, I did some work on one of the county's properties. It's the old hospital that became the nursing home
and they went to do some fire piping through there and during the course of that they found uh asbestous and I wanted to see if there has been an asbestous assessment on our facility uh if there's any there if there's going to
be any abatement needed because that will be a large cost on that as well. >> I don't I don't have that answer. >> Yeah, it's an unknown. All right, gentlemen. We've got more answers now. What's your
pleasure? What What is What is the direction you'd like to see staff to do? Commissioner Alexander, >> I would like to see staff go out and um get estimates for each one of the properties or we're on it right now. So,
let's stick with it. >> Yes, we're on it. That's correct. >> I would like to instruct staff to go and get an estimate to build out, you know, 5,000 square feet per the request of our IT department. Give us a, you know, we
call it a plus or minus 30% to give us an idea of where we're going to be if we decide to go that direction because we also we already know what it's going to cost us to build a new facility and then we can make an educated decision for for our constituents. >> Yeah. And I don't mind if they had to
shrink from 5,000 to 4,800. >> Sure. >> Sure. I mean I mean when we when we were talking we said ask for the stars and see if you get the moon. You know that's good. >> But do we we need to assign a number to that? So, um, with that motion, um, can
I open it for discussion as to what staff might think would be a potential cost to acquire that number? >> Madam Chair, I'll second that motion if he's got it on the floor. Now, we can have discussion. Correct. >> I just like, yeah, I want to make sure
we get a dollar value on what our staff might think it would cost us to get an accurate estimate. >> All right, we're in discussion. We we generally see and this is just a very general thing so I'm going to caveat it with that at about a 10% is what design and engineering would cost for the
design of the building. So I mean I think our early estimates I'm I mean when we figure it up I think you're going to be somewhere between 6 and 800,000 to do the 5,000 square foot remodel. I mean that just simple thought. Um I think you're going to be somewhere $60 to $80,000 in in design
and engineering plus your $600,000 for um building. So you're going to be total package and I'm going to say 700 800 grand. >> That gives you a document that you can take to the street. >> Yes, sir. >> Madam Chair.
>> Yes. We we've got to have some numbers somewhere to start with and you know right now we're just casting at the sky and see what sticks. We don't have no idea. So I think we need to come back with some some solid numbers on that 4,800 ft and see what we're looking at. We may be barking up the wrong tree and
we can't do anything about it. So we need to find out if we can >> we can bring you back an engineering estimate and that's what you're going to get back is what the architect or the engineer is going to tell us that we're going to see for this 4,800 ft. The cost. Now, that's not saying that we can't value engineer. We can't do
something, but that's that's what you're going to see. >> If this were to happen, Mr. Grimes, I'd like to see you work some of your magic like you did out at the animal service. >> Those are those are coming very thin about out of the magic eraser. >> All right. So, let's bring this back.
So, um, is the motion for an engineering estimate? >> Mr. Grimes, what an engineering estimate? You're saying 10% of the total cost of the project >> or is that a different estimate? >> That that that's what I'm telling you that I'd probably call for me to get design plans put together, which is what we're going to have to put to the street
to bid >> um because they're going to come in, they're going to do the layout. You're going to pay an architect or engineering firm somewhere between 60 and $80,000 for me to bring you back the proposal to do that space. >> So, so we have two things. So, what Commissioner Palisier is saying is the
estimate first >> and then if we're okay with that, then go out to the design, >> right? You're saying getting an estimate. Yeah. >> Am I understanding that correctly? >> The problem is we're going to that backwards. I have to have a design in order to put something out to get you a price because I don't know whether you
want three bathrooms, you want two bathrooms, you want 16 offices, you want 12 offices, you want this power, you want that. >> I want the least expensive. >> I I I I understood portalit. We got to have a design before we can put something because who knows what that's where all this is going to start at a
design, right? >> Commissioner, I'm gonna help. I'm gonna jump in and help a little bit. Um, so decisions before you guys if you would like to move forward in the next step in getting a proposal is that we engage a design professional. We have those on continuing services. The board would
need to direct staff to engage a design professional and direct staff as to what budget you'd like this taken from. If that's the proper protocol for this step, I would like to make that motion. >> That's already a motion on
all over. >> Yeah. All right. I resend my motion so we can get some more clarity to it as we move forward. >> Well, you can still make a motion. I just need to have it clear. >> Okay. So, what's your motion? So, my motion is to engage a design professional um to provide us with a solid number so
that we can accurately determine which path would be the most beneficial for our constituents as good stewards of the tax dollars. Uh and I would like to challenge Mr. Grimes with providing me that estimate
for $50,000. Commissioner, I'm gonna and and I appreciate all of that in the world. However, design professionals are one of those categories where negotiations are very thin in what the law allows. Um, and so we are not allowed to really
negotiate with design professionals um quite as blatantly as we are once we get contractors, right? We can value engineer contractors. Um the the method of what they do, we're not allowed to value engineer design professionals in that particular manner. quite quite as
blatantly. Um so certainly we can engage um a design professional via proposal with a max not to exceed number but if they if that number exceeds it then we walk away from them and we are not allowed to go back to them by method of the law. >> Gotcha. Gotcha. So
>> so so make your allowance something that you you that we all feel is truly reasonable. Um and then identify the reserve fund that you'd like to be utilizing >> or you don't put the number on it. Madam Chair, you got a motion without a second on the floor. Have a discussion.
>> All right. Um, yeah. >> I think our motion was inaccurate in the way the way >> it's it's a $50,000 cap. Is that what you're saying, Commissioner Alexander? >> Well, based on, you know, we were open for discussion on that motion and based
on the data that's provided, um, they don't feel that that's going to give achieve what we need. And then once we do that, that's going to isolate which design professionals we can use because we can't go back to them if we haven't agreed to the terms that they are and that's a state mandate. So that's
non-negotiable. Um it's just it's scary to me that if we know that we're going to be $600 to $700,000 to renovate that particular facility and we know that we can build brand new for
$400 or $500,000. I don't know that we know that. I mean, we also thought I mean, the the design engineer that we got for the boat ramp was a lot more than what it came in in at. >> Yep. And that that's a very valid point. So, that's why I question where we're at um on the estimate, but
and you know, I don't want to handcuff staff with an unachievable goal because that's been a recurring theme in prior administrations. they do a good job and they, you know, but I don't want it, you know, to be consistently stressful and
have to do things that, you know, may may or beyond their capacity. So, I would I would like to amend my motion. Um, I think that $60,000 would be the not to exceed that I would like to propose, M Michelle,
>> for a renovation project. >> Yes, ma'am. >> In the in the suite >> on the from what fund, sir? what reserve pot. >> Um, now that's up to you. Tell me where you recommend that being drawn from. Would that be from the better place plan? Would that be from general fund reserve? Where would you think would be
the most appropriate place to pull that? >> This particular project eligible funding pots are going to be either your general fund reserves um or your BP. Although I will tell you the perception to BPP on an IT building may be not as palatable
as using your general fund reserves. I agree 100%. So I would like to pull that from the general funds and retain the BPP for what it's for. Better place plan. >> Okay. >> All right. We have a motion on We have a second. Any further discussion? >> Madam Chair, Miss Young, do you you feel
like that number is adequate that we're that if I heard him correctly 50,000? Is that right or >> 60? >> His max not to exceed was 60,000. Um I am not a design professional so let me start there. >> I do know that. Um, so we certainly will
go out and and negotiate that contract or attempt to negotiate that contract, >> come back. >> If we hit impass, then we'll come back and go back to the drawing board. But it may be a decision point for you all, too. If we've hit impass on a design professional that we know to have done
projects for us before and we know that cost is going to exceed 60 for the design, then it may be reasonable for you guys to explore what a design professional is going to be for new construction. Right. >> Right. It it may be a metric where it triggers your your decision matrix.
>> Right. >> Okay. >> All right. We have a motion on the floor in a second. Go ahead. One more one more question doesn't really pertain to that, but we have designs and plans on file for the two buildings that we just built brand new. So, we will save money if we
can modify those plans. Correct. >> Well, the two buildings we >> Yes, if we were doing new construction, sure, we could lay those plans in front of us. >> Okay. So, we're not >> Your motion is for renovation of >> Right. Right. I just want to clarify that before we made the vote. >> Okay.
>> Thank you. >> So, >> all right. Any further discussion? All in favor say I. >> I. >> Motion carries. >> All right. Veteran Services Office. So, um that's in front of us page eight and nine and the rendering is
the last page in your packet. So, as we know there, the veteran services office is cramped in their current space and they need additional space to accommodate staff and uh veterans who and people who are coming into the office
and administrative staff's worked with veteran services to determine what they need. And there is an approximate 2,000 foot office suite right next to where they're at. So, they wouldn't have to do anything but move next door. And
>> when you say move next door, they're going to just widen their current space, continue to use the space they have and utilize the space next to them or physically >> Oh, I didn't get that. I guess I need clarity on that myself.
I think the plan was just to move next door and to uh look at potentials for giving that space that they're currently occupying back to the supervisor of election. >> That's what I thought. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah. Okay. >> I was unclear. >> Okay.
>> I believe that is what we have drawn up. Jr. >> I need to switch computers. >> Yeah. Let's say that again. Miss Young, I'm sorry. I believe my understanding is that our when we met with to get a a visual a
design concept was for us to move them out of their current. So remember the suite that they're in used to go from the front of the building to the back but we cut it in half years ago when veteran services was a very small operation and the supervisor of
elections was growing in what they needed to store and operate in. So the back half of that suite that they're currently occupying was cut in half and isolated to the supervisor of elections. As we all know, the supervisor of elections operations are going to continue to grow. So has veteran
services. So they currently are operating in basically a half of a suite. So when we looked at the options, it was to move them completely out of the space that they're in and into a front to back suite, i.e. they would take up the whole area to give them the
utilization. Now, their their request um was a 2,000 square foot area that would accommodate their current needs um with some caveats that they need ADA accessibility for the patrons that they serve, those types of things. Um and so
that space they're currently occupying today could be then um returned to the supervisor elections or identified to be used by a much smaller division than what veteran services is every day. in the current location that we're referring to is already at 2,000 square
feet. >> Yes, that's correct. It's what we used to call the doggy adoption center. We used to do doggy adoptions in the windows. >> All right, Commissioner Harvey, you're recognized. >> Julian, can you put the map back up there from >> Well, I wish I could. Not yet. It
please. Um I'm not sure I have that. >> While she's putting that up there, could I ask? >> Sure. Um, and maybe I was writing some of them something else down. Y'all may already mention it.
>> Veteran services is currently in 2000. Correct. >> Sweet. 2,000 or square feet. >> No square feet. >> They're in a thousand. They're in a thousand. >> The women's dress shop that is next to it. What's the square footage there? >> It's the 2,000 we're referring to. >> It's two more thousand. >> No, it's the same thing. It's called
You're calling it that. She's calling it the animal where we had adoptions. I I believe the plans that >> it's the same property, >> right? And I believe it's one and the same and it's roughly 2,000 square feet as to what we would move them into. What
they're currently in is a thousand square foot. If you can look on the map, um it's not well, you can't readily identify it, but it's a portion of this building here. >> Okay.
So, Madam Chair, the question I have for Julianne is go back to the map of let's talk about from the Chinese restaurant west. Okay. >> Okay. >> Yes, sir. >> So, if we're talking the 4,800 square foot and that's what we just decided on,
could we do something to the west of that and build build veteran services there and completely move them from their location to that location? because they they're going to need a lot more
security than than what they have now. And our veterans deserve a better area in my opinion. So my thought is get them out of the building they're in that's cramped there and put them into a bigger building and then
we've solved that problem too of future growth because I do hope that we grow veteran services more just like you said elections is going to grow. We need to be prepared for our veterans to be able to be served in a in
a secure facility. So my thought is since we're doing it, maybe some engineer, architect, whoever would look at both buildings and say we can do this and that. Um but our our veterans
deserve that and and then forgo forego the buildings from the old dress shop and the old beauty salon over to supervisor of election or drugs if you will. um forgo all that and just put our
people down this side right here and that would be IT and veteran services next door. That would be something I would like to see done. Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, >> that would uh they're currently in a
thousand, so we'd be tripling their space that >> their uh drawing that they sent us. What's the square footage that they >> 2,000 >> 2,000? >> Yes, sir. >> Thousand more. They ought to be happy with that. >> It's 2,800. >> 2,800.
>> 2,800. 27 something. Well, >> we're Yeah, we're >> That sounds good. you know, I think >> who drew this. >> So, it uh we had a um contractor give us a a preliminary just kind of a basic concept of it. Um
>> and this was based on those >> based on um Mr. Allen and his teams telling us about their needs. Now, I will say it may be prudent, especially for this particular division, for us to look at both spaces, um, because we did get a little bit creative in how we're going to get water to one side of the
building to the other to accommodate some ADA restroom requirements and and requests. So, that was in part um part of the that design accommodated trying not to run plumbing to one side of the building where it didn't exist. Um, so
we could look at both, whatever. I I understand Commissioner Harvey's desire was to keep us all on one side of the building. However, um, cost may may outweigh the desire to put us all on one side of the building.
>> No, sure. >> Good question. >> Commissioner Harvey, you are done. >> Yes, ma'am. Thank you. >> Commissioner Alexander, you're recognized. Miss Young, the um so I'm looking at the BE000 suite and we're potentially
putting getting an estimate on putting the uh IT staff in the 4,800 foot and the 3,000 foot beside that is the one we're talking about. Correct. >> That's my understanding. >> Okay. So, that being said, the water was going to be an issue for
>> No, no, no, no. Let me back up. the plan that you originally have in your packet was developed to be in what you guys are calling that dress shop >> um and was kind of flipped to accommodate plumbing on the back side where it currently
runs. Um it's certainly any renovation that we do is going to need we're going to need plumbing obviously for it as well. So it may be a not issue. >> Yeah, I didn't think it was going to be an issue. I mean we can run the plumbing overhead. We don't, you know, people naturally assume that you've got to run it through the foundation, but if your
supply lines can all go up and over, um, you know, that, you know, your drains obviously have to go down, but, um, okay. >> Well, I know in viewing both the 30,000 square foot suite and the 4,000, the plumbing, the bathrooms are already in both back both of those buildings.
>> Yep. Yep. >> That's where the previous bathrooms were. >> Yeah. I went down there and looked at it as well. So, >> so >> whatever the least expensive option that provides our people with the best opportunity to service our constituents is what we want to go with. So, >> so, so can you go back to the other
slide where you had um right next to the supervisor elections office where the current >> working on it. >> So, that 3,300. Okay. So, we just haven't drawn out, we
haven't sectioned out of that the current supervisor, I mean it's just the current um veteran services. So, in your comments, and if I heard them wrong, Mr. Grimes, please help me. Um I thought you had an idea that this 2800 square foot
for veteran services would be somewhere in the 250 300,000 maybe. So, if we're taking an existing building and you're That was a real rough estimate. Okay. I mean, we didn't really nail down to what we want the storefront to look like or anything like that. It was just
the inside trims. >> Okay. So, why wouldn't we have the same type of math for the IT building? >> That's that's what we said a minute ago. I mean, it was the same number about 2500 square feet. And if it's 33, I
don't think it quite is 3,300, but that's not here nor there. And we said that was somewhere around $250 to $300,000. Double the space is 600. Um that's where kind of we got the math at. I mean I'm sure it's going to change one way or the other. That's why I was just throwing through some real rough
estimates out there. >> Okay. >> Okay. I was making sure I was following your thought process. Is it is it less expensive to bid them together if you're doing a bigger project? Is it I mean, do do we save
money by >> Probably >> putting them together versus >> I would I would I would think so. Yes, ma'am. And put it out as one package, right? Because then you're only mobilizing one contractor. You're, you know, I mean, you probably need to increase your amount for design, right? Because we went from
>> designing because we're going to need to design both, right? Both of them are going have to go through the same process. And we can design the 4,800 and the 3,000 next door for that 7,800 square feet. We can design all at one time and make it the space and we can move a wall or whatever we need to do. >> Outstanding.
>> Um, we can absolutely do that. But I mean, we just need to know, you know, if you guys like the concept that they've provided with you for the the amount of offices they need and that kind of stuff, we can absolutely bring that back as a one-time design for this B basically 7,800 square feet.
Well, I do like Commissioner Harvey's comments that you could put them on the same side of the building and then you could bid them out the same at the same time. They're right there together. You can put Veteran Services where the 3,000 square feet is and and potentially it
where the 4,800 is and get them both worked on and and bid and just everything at the same time. I like that idea. >> I agree. I mean, >> because if you're making a roof repair, you don't have to make it on two buildings. I know you said there's still going to be a need on the on Supervisor
Elections building in the future, but if you're making the plumbing, it works for both sides of the of the wall. >> Yes. And and just just so you keep in mind that that side of the building, the roof's already been done on, right? So, all that's already completed. So, we don't have a lot left to do inside of that particular box other than start
working, you know, whatever we're going to do on the inside. >> That's what I would like to see. >> Commissioner Alexander, you're recognized. >> Yep. No, I I agree. And um so what we would need to do is just amend our earlier motion to encompass the whole thing and raise the threshold. And that
way we've got an accurate cost for both of those facilities that we can compare and contrast to new construction that we already we have a fixed number on that. So how do I need to do that? >> Madam chair. >> Yeah. >> Um been as this is veteran services and
they're here and he's sitting there with his arms folded like that mad. I don't like that. Allan Allen always looks like that. >> Okay. Well, >> that's Alan's normal. Okay. >> I think you just make another motion.
>> Yeah. Sound almost sounded like one. >> Okay. Well, let's let's try that. >> Let's try it again. >> So, I would I would like to uh make a a second motion to amend my first motion. >> Yeah, you can just add to it. >> But anyhow, I want to increase that
threshold. Um, so we're looking at >> 100 grand. >> 100 grand. >> Second >> and that will encompass a study for both of those buildings. >> Both buildings. Yeah. >> Yep. And then we have some good solid numbers and we can make a good decision.
>> Wow. >> It feels like the right thing to do, but it hurts at the same time. >> That's right. >> And you know it does. It does. But you you just want to do that. So you you may you may spend $100,000. Like I said, to keep from making a million-dollar mistake.
>> Okay, we have a motion on the floor. And there's a second. >> All right, any further discussion? All right, all in favor say I. >> I. Motion carries. >> All right, we'll get those going together and wait to hear back from staff.
>> All right, Commissioner Pelisir, this is your baby on item number C. This is your ugly baby. Before we get started, Mr. would like to ask and I sure don't want to keep y'all going, >> but there's only one little small more small piece of that building down there. You don't want us to throw it in on the
design and make it office space as well while we're designing is bringing you back a proposal. >> If you can bring it in for that 100 grand, we'll be good. I >> I just don't want to do I just don't want to expand a project further than what you want. But I mean, if we're we might as well do a design on the whole 9,800 square feet if we're doing it. >> If it's cost effective, absolutely sold
us on >> I told you. I told you. Work your magic. Are you gonna lead this conversation? >> I can a little bit. Um >> so this is um county buildings. >> Yes. I've um some time ago asked for a list of uh county owned properties that
we have and um are not on the tax roles that possibly could be. And uh there's quite a long list um of of those properties. Some are just are vacant land, some of them have buildings. Um the uh it has come to my attention that
the um we have an interest from a private entity that is uh actually they're a commercial organization that would be interested possibly in our highway patrol building across the river in renting for an extended lease uh them with option to buy at some point in time
possibly. So anything's on the table. um just something we need to discuss and decide what we want to do or how we want to handle it. I know that tower that is on that property belongs to the state of Florida. It can't be touched that this particular um entity that tower won't
affect them. They they wouldn't be interested. They just want to cut it up inside and make office space whatever. Yeah. Office space as good as I'm going to share. >> Okay. That's what that's this is where you want to start at. >> It can be right. All right. Get everybody's opinion what they think. All right, Commissioner Harvey, you're
recognized. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. You know, when we talk about county buildings and county properties, we have a long list, and like I said when I began today, we're going to have to eat this apple one bite at a time. We we've got a lot
to eat there. Um I think it's going to take multiple workshops to get through that. But I did bring up a long time ago and I appreciate Commissioner Palis here. The F FHP building over there uh does need something done, but keep in
mind that we got stuff in there and we're going to have to do something with that stuff in that building. So when that time comes, it's going to be have to be cost effective for us to be able to do build, move, house something uh to
get that stuff out of there. It's going to have to be a lucrative deal for the county. But I just don't want to talk about that one building. I don't mind talking about it today, but I do think we need to start looking at that building and then the income producing
buildings, the lands that we have, the lands that we have being used under contract, the lands that we have under that bring in revenue, the lands that we have that don't bring in re We have a big apple here. >> Yeah. and and I think we need to start
cutting that up a little bit better. And I appreciate the first bite could be the FHP building. U I have no problem with that. U but the rent's going to have to justify us doing something with the stuff that's inside that building and
moving the stuff. And I don't even know if Mr. Grimes where we could move that stuff to. If it if we had a lucrative deal that somebody wanted to use it right now, where could we move that stuff? or do we have to build another building which I don't I don't mind
that. Let me say if we took the rents from that building, build a building, use that money to pay for the building of the building, I wouldn't have that problem. But I need to know I need some information from you, Mr. Grimes, of how
do we accomplish that when we get there. So that's that's my comments, Madam Chair. >> All right. Uh before I go to Commissioner Alexander, I will say if we look at um any kind of a sale, lease, rent, whatever, there's a process that has to be followed and that's per
Florida statute. And it's and so if you you just can't take one entity's offer, you have to I believe you have to put it out for bid and then just like we did on when we sold the old Ronnie Clark building and then there was a process and uh there was a successful bidder in
that process. So just keep that in mind when we're discussing um county buildings and how we want to move forward. Uh Commissioner Alexander, you're recognized. >> I think it would be pertinent to let Mr. crimes. Answer the first part of the question and then I'll comment.
>> Thank you. >> As we continue to speak about that building, I'd like to state the 100,000 foot level. If we could, please. Um, for fire rescues side of that, we're going to need about 3,000 square foot of air conditioned space. Um, our other partner
in there is going to need roughly about the same. So, you're going to need about 6,000 square foot of conditioned space um to replace what's currently in that building. Um so, that's I mean, we talked about it. I mean, um the piece of
property behind the EOCC is for sale um that runs between the EOC and St. John's Avenue. Uh the problem is it's biseected by a pond uh that neither one of us have no any use for. I don't have use for the one on St. John's Avenue, but I could sure use the other additional 80 or 90 ft that goes behind the EOC would help
me tremendously to have our operation from the building in East Palaca more centralized location to to our staff, right? Because every time a firefighter needs bunker gear, we got to go to East Pla, pick it up because we don't have the space. Um, so long term, that's a great plan, right? But I don't have it
today, you know? I mean, I need we need the space because there is setbacks, right? I can only get within so many foot of the property line before I can expand. Can I expand the warehouse that we currently have out there and make 3,000 square foot of condition space and make it more efficient than what we have? Most certainly. Uh but that
operation would be much better in town, closer to the staff and the logistics people that have to pull the stuff out every day to keep our ambulances and fire trucks and stuff on the road, but it would have to be replaced. But absolutely, I'm I'm game for that one. Uh but the other partner in there is going to need space, too. And it needs
to be >> Yeah, he's going to need space. What else is in that space? >> That's why he's keeping it at the >> Let's keep it at 100,000 foot. >> Okay. >> Yeah, understood. Yeah, we know who that what's going on. So, you as an entity need 3,000 square foot of condition
space, >> correct? >> I didn't even know there was space behind here. How much do we have behind us? >> Oh, EOC EOC. >> No, I'm just talking about if we had to have conditioned space, how much do we have? >> That's probably 1,100 foot back behind us. Yes, sir. >> Okay. Good deal. Good deal. I'm just
exploring options. I got you. But, you know, the the key factor on this is, you know, leasing the property. If we have a tenant that wants to go in there, not only are we going to recognize the revenue stream of that rent, but additionally, once you have a tenant occupied space, it reverts back to the
tax roles and we can and we can start collecting taxes on that. Correct. >> Yes. So we start getting we get a tax we get tax we can tax them on the property and we get the revenue from the rent. So that's that's a pretty significant
amount of money in my opinion for property that's just sitting there holding you know storing stuff in. So I think it would behoove us to find somewhere to put that stuff and get that back out there. >> All right, Commissioner Pelister, you're recognized. um the bid process, putting
out a bid only benefits Putnham County because if we put it out for bid and who knows, you might have two or three or five or six, you know, hey, I'm I'm interested. I want to get lease that out. So certainly to the highest bidder and that would benefit the county as far as storage space and I hear what you're
saying, Mr. rhymes out there is great, but if we're not able to use the pantry pride build or leasing it out, put a partition wall in there and AC it because I don't think that has to meet any kind of special codes, does it? To put AC unit in just to >> keep these uh items refrigerator chill
that you want to take care of that's currently in FHA FHB building. >> Maybe I missed where you said the location. I apologize. >> I'm sorry. Um, if we're not able to use the pantry pride building to do or lease out or do anything with, put a partition
wall in there for whatever space we need, put an AC unit to take care of that amount of space. And there's your storage space because it doesn't have to be there's we don't have to have bathrooms in there, do we? >> I'm going to have to lean on my friend, Mr. Wedson that's there in the front row. >> I mean, I'm asking I don't know.
>> He's doing everything he can to avoid coming >> under roof and it's dry. >> No, I I get it. But I mean that's again we're attacking that space, right? We're making progress inside that space. >> Its current use is designated storage. >> Sure. I just don't know how much work he's going to allow to go on inside that
storage space. >> Okay. >> Yeah, we can't hear you. >> We don't mean to put you on the spot, but we don't have a choice. thing about that space is there were decisions made back in 2008 that kicked this issue down the road then and now
we've arrived. It's really difficult to make any maneuver in that space where already we're against the wall when we got into the complex and those were the conditions of the time then that we were facing and it's kind of this problem was kicked down the road and now you're
facing it and so that space is appealing but you're we barely even go in it right now. You know if we start increasing that intensity it's putting me in an awkward spot. you can just say we can't use that that space. I mean, it's okay.
>> I think it'd be best to not use it. There may be some wiggle room, but for the most part, you know, it's best to to not use the space. Um, I think the whole idea in the first place was we weren't really supposed to use it in the first
place. So, we were, like I said, we were very difficult decisions were made all those years ago. And this was what the commission faced at that time was the cost of dealing with this property >> and uh it was a exorbitant cost is difficult.
>> So when that when that when that when the rehab for this space was done it took us right up to that threshold of more than 50% of the space. Once we go past that then we have to renovate this as well. >> Yes sir. Um, as far as the other questions, we already have occupied
space, little modifications that are occupied or are acceptable. And so all the discussion that we were talking about earlier, just want to make it clear, I said it from the audience, but I don't know if you heard me that we were willing to do little little things, little movers. Um, it's business to
business. We're not tripping major issues there. >> But that space down there becomes problematic. >> Gotcha. Okay. Gotcha. unreal to me. >> Commissioner Harvey, you're recognized.
>> Thank you, Madam Chair. So, let's just play the game real quick of building a new building. Um, 6,000 square foot. We know that's about 800,000 based on animal shelter. Um, animal shelter was
3,000 at 400,000 and the uh sanitation was 2500 square foot at 400,000. So, we're we're, you know, we're probably looking 6,000 to a million dollars. Um, maybe maybe 800,000.
So, if you lease the the FHP building and you'd be looking at around and if you dedicated that money to a new building, so let's just play the game of 850,000, you're looking at $4,000 a month for 10
years, right? So with that in I mean would I'd have to be able to justify to myself that yeah we're going to build a building and we're going to use that money to offset the new building. So I think it could be done because I I believe Commissioner Palaceir is right.
I think there's going to be a lot of interest in leasing that building and $4,000 a month would not be an exorbitant amount in that area for that building. And then you take that money and dedicate it to a new building that
satisfies the needs of the current tenants of the FHP building. >> You just picked that number because you were just doing math. >> I'm sorry. >> You picked that number because you were just doing easy math or where did you get the $4,000 a month? >> Well, basically on mortgage calculator,
I just kind of did the math on that of what a $425,000 loan for 10 years at 6% interest. I'm sure we could get a better Okay. Okay. Interesting. >> I was just trying to get where you were getting the Yeah. I didn't if you had a price per square foot based on rental space or what you were using.
>> No, I I didn't I don't know what we could get on real estate. I mean, we'd have to put that out for bid, >> but we will recognize the property taxes, too, once that becomes le >> Well, I still got the floor though. Let me ask you this. The vacant field out here. Okay. I know the trees sacred but you know
>> okay but you know it's old trees are trees but could we do something out there if we wanted to build a new building to house certain things could we use that building >> that land >> that land >> if if we're building a new building for
our uses I mean if we're strictly taking operations and moving one to the other I'd prefer the EOC are out behind the main station off Griffith out by where animal services is. I mean, that that would be the ideal location probably is out there by our EMS main
fire station and the sheriff's office. It would be probably the most utilized spot. >> And we have enough room there to do that. >> Y'all have 180 acres out there. I think we probably Yes. I mean, >> I mean, some of it's wet in the back, but >> it is, but I mean, we moved the animal control facility because originally you
guys were wanting to put it out on 17, >> right? Um, so we moved it and I mean we've got a more space behind it. I mean you could absolutely pull it off, right? I mean and it would really help both places or you could just build onto our current station that's there. I mean if we're talking about just an expansion, you may be able to build onto the the
back of it and move it further back and be able to justify both operations, too. Um, so there just I mean there's a lot of things, but remember if we decide to go down the route of getting rid of the FHP building, our h ours has to be done ahead of time. >> Yes. Right. So, I have to be able to
move my stuff out of there before we hit the leasing market. Right. So, we need to have that building built before we ever put that out for lease. >> Somewhere to store it. >> Understood. Thank you, Madam Chair. >> Okay. Commissioner Palis, you're recognized. >> I I'll be brief. I did the square footage of FHB building ever get
mentioned square footage there. >> Sir, I'm gonna have to guess and it's just truly a guess about 6,000 square feet, I think, is probably what's there. Big. >> Yes, sir. It's it's pretty good size building when you get inside of it. >> You can get a premium buck for that. >> Yeah. And one thing to consider too, we can only sell it one time.
>> You had the floor, did you? >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> I thought it was >> We're not sitting on the tailgate, Josh. >> Um, something I'd like to see done that would just work better for any kind of storage or do anything is we have a
world of junk in the pantry pride building that could be to the landfill. There's a bunch of old computers in there that the um scrap man has told me he has interest in taking those off our hands for a fee uh that we'll get a little money for. But
you know, just clean the place out. It's just clutter now. Absolute clutter. >> No, that's clutter. >> Are you now? I relinquished my time there. >> Okay, >> Mr. Alexander. >> Mr. Alexander. No, I just wanted to reiterate the fact
that we can only sell it one time, but if we can get a continuous revenue stream through leasing it with a tenant, that's acceptable for that. Um, >> we still recognize the tax benefit as well being pulled back into the tax roles. So, we can lease it in perpetuity
until such time that somebody makes an offer that we can't refuse and still collect the taxes, but we can find somewhere else to store that stuff. We've got property and we've got buildings. >> Okay. Um, Commissioner Nebul, you're recognized. >> And I guess this is just an adjacent can
of worms. Um, the I think we went out to Did we go out to to bid on the nursing home buildings? Has there been any any Oh, I'm sorry. >> No, you did good. >> Any progress or update there? >> Yeah, the board engaged us to get an
appraisal and we did engage an appraiser. They're in the process of trying to get through the appraisal process. >> I couldn't hear. What did you get appraisal? >> The two nursing homes. two nursing homes. >> So, you're telling me there there's not a whole bunch of nursing homes out there on the market. Is that what you're saying?
>> It's a very complex appraisal. >> Yes, sure. >> It's a specialized appraisal. >> I'm sure. Okay. Thank you. >> Okay, that was going to be my question. Um, how did we obtain the FHP building? >> So, it actually reverted to us as part
of the deed when FHP ceased operations in Putnham County. um that building once it was no longer occupied by us was required by deed to revert to the county. >> And is there any other language on that deed or do we know or can we look at make sure we look at to make sure that
it doesn't if we were to surplus it that it doesn't go to another entity or the funds go back to FHP or the state or something because we could be just all having a big discussion over something that we really don't have true control over anyway.
So okay. All right. So, uh, further your county buildings discussion. >> Uh, not at this time. I think we're we got enough on our plate. We might want to reel in. >> It's a big discussion. Okay. Anybody else on the DAS want to speak about
county buildings? This was at the request of Commissioner Pelier. He's already given what he wanted to say for now. >> That's what I want to talk about for today. >> Okay. >> Madam Chair. >> Yes. >> Thank you for the opportunity. I I do think I want to go back to my comment a minute ago. I think this has been
beneficial, but this is just meeting one, if you will. >> I think we need to start looking at giving staff the direction of how do we want to go forward? Do we want to talk about the other buildings? What do we want to talk about? Do we want to talk about revenue? Do we want to talk about
vacant lands? We're going to have to do this a little bite at a time because it's a we've never done this to this extent and um I think it would be beneficial if we gave staff a direction. Don't have to do it today. We we're fine
today. We can do it at another meeting and just start whittling this stick down a little bit at a time and by the end of the year we'll have a pretty good idea of what we got going on. And you know in in government the end of the year is going to be here before you blink an eye. it'll be over with and we'll be
back to we'll be in 2027 before we know it. So, I think that we just start at a future meeting, Madam Chair, that you could call. We could do another workshop, take another bite of the apple, and do another bite of the apple and just move forward at that time. Thank you.
>> All right. Anybody else wants to speak about county buildings? All right. Commissioner comments. Anybody have commissioner comments? >> You good? Everybody's good on commissioner comments. All right. County attorney comments,
>> county administrator comments. >> No, ma'am. I believe we're good over here. Thank you. >> Public comment on miscellaneous items. Is there anybody wishing to speak in the public? We we' called for public on uh comment on agenda items. Is there anybody wants to speak in the public? All right. Seeing none, I believe this
meeting is adjourned. Thank you. >> That could be your number. That could be