Go. Bob also needs to stop separately. >> Good. How are you doing? >> Go ahead. Good evening. This is the May 27th uh planning board meeting of Ron Township. Um call order. The notice of the notice
requirements of the open public meeting act have been satisfied by the placing of a notice on this meeting in the bulletin board of the municipal building, filing the notice with the township clerk, and transmitting the notice to the Curry News and Trenton Times. May I have a roll call, please?
>> Chairman, Mr. Edward Jennings, she has asked to be excused. Vice Chairwoman, Miss Donna Drews, >> here. >> Miss Robin Fatu has asked to be excused. Mr. Bob King, >> here. >> Miss Michelle Cafakiri, she has recently just asked to be excused. Mr. Dennis Concan >> here.
>> Mr. James Miller >> here. >> Mr. Joseph Lane, he has also asked to be excused. Board professionals, board attorney, Mr. Joe Toriello, >> here. >> Township planner, Mr. Jeffrey Vagarella, >> here. >> Traffic consultant, Mr. J. Troutman >> here.
>> And we have Mr. Brett Harris from Environmental Resolutions, Inc. I'm sorry, Brett. I don't know what kind of title to give you. >> Consulting planner. >> Consulting planner >> for the evening. >> Mr. Brett Harris.
>> Yes. Okay. All right. Thank you. Um, can we please stand for the pledge of allegiance and then a moment of silence >> for the that would be the rest of it. Sorry. Um, for the men and women serving the armed forces, particularly those
serving in troubled areas around the world to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Thank you. >> All right, we will move quickly. Comments and reports. Nothing of acting chairman. Anything from the boards on comments? Nothing. We'll move on. Engineer not here tonight. Engineering firm
representative. Uh no comments. planner. Jeff, do you have anything? >> No comments. >> Okay. Jerry, do you have anything? >> No comments. >> All right. Moving on. Uh correspondence, discussion, and recommendations. We uh
have on our agenda the major item tonight is the discussion of our township circulation plan. And I'll welcome our our uh consulting planner from >> ESRIR. I don't know. Well, I'm really excited
as always erri uh here this evening to go over that with us and to do a presentation. Thank you. >> Thank you. Um so, first of all, thank you all for for having me here. I'm excited to give you guys a little update with the plan. Jeeoff and I thought it would be it's a good good time um to
sort of check in with the board and uh I think the main purpose of tonight is to really just get your feedback on plan recommendations. Um, we've pulled through the recommendations from prior planning documents, but now we're at that point we're like, okay, what what do we want the the plant to do now? Um,
so I did prepare a little presentation. Um, if Taylor could please pull it up. Um, just a pretty brief thing. I'm just going to go over some existing conditions, some top issues and opportunities that I've noticed that we've analyzed in the township related
to circulation. um and then the plan recommendations and stuff. So, um so you want to go to the NASA slide. Um so this is pretty much what I said,
just a little road map for what we're going to do. What is the circulation plan element? little recap of existing conditions. Just some uh data points that I thought were the most compelling. Um from existing conditions, uh we identified some top issues and top
opportunities uh related to circulation, draft plan goals, draft strategies and actions, and then time for discussion. And like I said, I want this to mainly be discussion, getting your ideas for for what we want the plan to do. So what is a circulation plan called?
Um so there are a few key functions of circulation plans. Uh they identify the types and locations of transportation facilities. Consider all modes of transit. Uh efficient movement of goods and people. Um and it must reflect the federal highways
functional classification system. So moving on, typical components of a circulation plan element. Um, next slide. I'll just look at you. Um, so some typical components are inventory of existing systems, uh, which we've done
an analysis of conditions and recommendations, integration with land use policies. And that's sort of where we're at right now. Recommendations for infrastructure and potential upgrades and integration with land use policies. Uh moving on to existing conditions
and then so just some pretty high level things. The uh township is mainly classified as urban roads. Um and this is an important designation because it attracts increased federal and state resources. Um so as you can see 87% of
the township is considered urban. um mainly because of the dense population in these areas versus more of a farming >> aspect of our townships. >> Yeah, I'm pretty sure it has to do with like census tracks. So, it's really dependent on Yeah. on who who's living
in that space right now. >> The the roads I saw on the one map indicate that was all pretty much farmland. >> I believe I should have printed that map too, but it's the western side of the burrow. That's >> that's the south. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Um,
>> federal federal census data has listed us almost all of Hunter County as urban for decades. >> Really? >> Yeah. I have no idea why. I mean, I guess it's >> it's in density. >> And I always assume because it was federal, they're look they were comparing us to, you know, everywhere in between from New York to Wyoming and
between. So when you look at the big picture, maybe we do qualify as urban, >> just not compared to say Essex County, >> right? Or the rest of the state. Yeah. Exactly. >> Yep. Um, >> Jersey is more popular than Tokyo. >> Oh, I didn't know that. Is that Tokyo? I
know it's the most densy. >> Wow, that says that says something. >> Yeah. >> Wow. >> Um, moving to the next slide. Uh, transportation mode share. Uh, I'm sure it's no surprise to you all, but 73% of Ritton residents drive to work,
20% work from home. Uh, pretty comparable to the county and the state. uh a little slightly more people drive to work um than the state and then slightly more people work from home when compared to the state but pretty on brand for for the county. Um moving to the next data point uh of existing
bicycle infrastructure on the next slide. Um there are three existing bike lanes within the township. Um on Walter for Raman Boulevard, Chart Street Corner Road and Clover Hill Road. Um these are not protected bike lanes. They're just
painted on the road. If there are more bike lanes that we didn't pick up, please let me know. Um, but that that's what we've got based on the the county data. Moving to the next slide. Um, one thing we wanted to include in the
circulation plan was warehouse development over time and how that impacts the township, how that impacts um, you know, the the township's infrastructure. So, as you can see, warehouse development in the township has increased significantly within the past 10 years. Um, 22 employees in 2015
to nearly 60 in 2024. And then the wages associated with warehouse employment has increased from 1 million to more than 3.4 um over that over that same time period. And that's from the New Jersey uh quarterly census of employment wages.
Um, so right from the state data set >> is 2024 the most recent data set you can grab. >> Yeah, we grabbed this data in January. So I'll double check that. >> Yeah, just because we've had so many come online
>> in 25 and 26 like >> at least Yeah, >> yeah, >> okay. >> ongoing right now that May. >> Yeah. >> So we call a warehouse even though I'm thinking some of that might be flex pay. Yes, it's all the same.
>> Yeah, I would imagine flex space may attract more people than it would be. >> You like all the developments that would be >> that would be >> and when uh >> a lot of the stuff on uh Bish Drive.
>> Yeah. >> A lot of that is like kind of sportsoriented type things, indoor batting cages that'll attract more traffic than a typical warehouse. Yeah. >> Yeah. But would would you even have the data if they don't even have TCO or CO?
>> See, that's where I'm wondering even operating them. Yeah. >> They're just there. >> Yeah. What I'm what I'm wondering >> if as another data point because we have a on the books approved or under construction
so many additional warehouse sites. It probably would get a good handle good to get a handle on it >> like get how many are proposed to be starting up within you know >> or or under construct. just extrapolate based on if we know the amount of square footage what we have and where it's
going to that might be a relative number to >> you probably could >> yeah I guess where I'm going with this not to interrupt the presentation >> there's more discussion >> bas so to me when I start thinking about why am I worried about warehouses it's
the tractor trailers yeah and so that's where I thought it would really be good to show on one of these transportation maps where all these warehouse facilities are where the existing current ones are, where the proposed ones are because I think that then g
would give me a better perspective on a map all at once like these are where we're seeing all these issues coming up or will be exasperated. >> I think that's a fair that would be a really good chart to see because we should be able to see how they're feeding the so-called arteries into the
to the main foods that are ultimately we've already heard it from Readington, right? They've already complained to us on the committee saying because they're leaving Lipton and they're going north. Oh, sorry. They're going north. Yeah. And they're like, "We don't want them coming through our township." And like, >> "Okay." >> Yeah. Right.
>> Yeah. And that's where I think it'll help us also when we're thinking about recommendations of the relationship of the land use and the zoning >> because we already, >> you know, it's going to be interesting when some
of these open up. >> Yeah. They go where they say they're going to go. >> Yeah. And I like the idea of like spatially, you know, because then you can really easily be like, okay, they're sort of concentrated this area. Maybe this these side roads or whatever need weight restrictions and, you know, it builds the case for for future, as you
said, recommendations that >> or as I was point out here, are there other areas that we may want to highlight if there's going to be like a recreational corridor? I think of the south branch >> and if we talk about a one-way road for example around river road and we know trucks are coming through there what
extra things might we want to have installed >> to to protect pedestrians or cyclists >> folks like that. >> Yeah, definitely. We'll uh we'll game plan and and figure out the best way to to get that data, display it, and then have it feed into the recommendation. >> Well, that intersection is the classic
example. I mean, that's why 202 and Case Boulevard was built up the way it was in the first place. Just a lot of people don't want to use it because some ways it's quicker to go river depending on which way you're going. >> Oh, yeah. I It has to be something has to change there. Yes.
>> But I I can see why people avoid that. >> Anyway, sorry I didn't. >> No, no, no. Please. Again, this is >> one of the comments that I had when we're going to get into a lot of discussion. >> Yeah. Slides. >> I'm glad. I'm glad. This is why I'm here. >> Settle in. >> Yeah.
>> Um, next slide, please. So, continuing with the warehousing and that impact on the local infrastructure, there are a few weight restricted roads currently in the township. As you can see on the map here, and I believe I had the print out, too. Um, so we have River Road, Pennsylvania Avenue, and then Dayton
Road. Uh, apologies, Pennsylvania Avenue did not make it in the draft packet. I forgot to switch out the map. So, that's the most recent one. That just happened this year. >> Yeah. >> And I believe Clover Hill was restricted as well. >> Jeffrey, that thing on. >> Is that right?
>> I believe so. >> I don't recall seeing signs for Let me >> Okay. Hill, we can look into that. >> Jeffrey, is your microphone thing on? >> No, no, just just tap it so that it's
green. technology. Am I right? >> It's good. >> So, I'll ask my question now since we're distracted. So, what's the difference? So, the blue ones where it says trucks restricted. >> Mhm.
>> Who got those restricted? >> So, I believe these were >> And what's the parameters? Because there's nothing in the report that defines what a truck restricted road is. Mhm. Um I believe these were from the 2008 plan or a subsequent plan that we
just carried through, but I'll definitely look and and see what exactly that trucks restricted is. Um >> could could I add to that, Chair? Yes. This is I tell I'm going to move away because I'm a visual guy. I'm going to point to the map. >> So um in fact on mine I drew a dash line
from this bend here right through to there. And what is going on? So when I talk to our police about this, right, because what we're seeing, and this is my opinion, this road to two trucks hate is because there's a circle. There's a ton of lights they have to wait for. And what they're doing is they're getting
here. They're going to 514 Amwell Road and then they're turning, floating off onto Old York Road, 60 714. I don't know. this road right here because this is where I live and this is where all the trucks are now going and so
our lieutenant say yeah we can catch them here and stop them so it's to prevent them from happening but they're turning and I believe they're by I see this with car traffic as well so I want to bring that mention on this people are bypassing because if they're going to go 202 north and they're going to stay on
202 north they want to >> thank you they want to in my opinion avoid all this >> and they're cutting through more residential. >> No, it's all back. This is all county roads. They're all county roads that look somewhere right over here. >> And so I see it all the time and there's
recommendations in here from the previous study that have not been implemented. In fact, mainers has worked and I'll point it out when we get to that. But I think if you were to think through that, this is what I'm observing. >> No, you're absolutely right. Um they pick up Old York Road right over there
in East Stanwell and they follow Old York Road all the way down through sometimes they branch off and go down Mory's east corner and sometimes they keep going through to three bridges and out through three bridges um the traffic light in Readington. >> Yeah. And we're recently getting
complaints even on written house which is directly in a in a residential area that we're getting >> cutting through written. >> Yes. A couple weeks ago, someone was within a week, they said that they they've seen four within a within a couple days. So, I don't know if it's
just another if it's a specific uh I don't know if it was lo a local um job or or something, but it was major truck to trailer. So, >> they need to be weight restricted so that the police can enforce >> or there's I don't know how they put no trucks, no through trucks, right? And
and how they file that I don't know, but they they I know our Lieutenant Ryan Garbina, I think he's Lieutenant. Yeah. >> Um he was seeing these huge tractor chairs with these heavy stools of wire saying you can't be back here on these roads with that kind of vehicle and he's
trying to enforce it. I want to give our police more teeth to enforce it further. >> Yeah. Well, this is the the perfect opportunity to start that lay the groundwork and then you know the township can build off of it and implement those restrictions and the
policy framework will be in place. So it's great to know. Okay. Um any other feedback before we move on to issues and opportunities and and the the theme of the the truck traffic and weight restrictions will keep coming up
but um if not I think we'll move forward to the top issues and opportunities that we've identified. >> Um you didn't touch on it >> but the electric vehicle charging station map is missing a lot of
chargers. >> Okay. Um, go if you go to go hunt and >> um >> I think they showed they showed like 17. >> Okay. >> So, there's there's quite a few more. And I think it would be helpful because this is something we're going to see
more coming online. So to be able to document change when we do this again, >> I think it'd be helpful if we knew >> um you know the type of charger if it's free like you know there's more detail with >> right a little bit more context around those chargers because we're going to
see more coming on you know as we require all these people to put them in for the statements. Um, so I think that just be an informative data point because the recommendation is we should get more, right? >> But if we don't know exactly what they are and what kind of if they're all
level whatever crappy ones then >> right they should be not helpful. So if you know if they're one, two or three and >> yeah that is a great one that are about to be built as well >> you know um >> just so it's not >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. I think if we have it where we know which ones have to make bring them online. >> Yeah. Because we've approved a lot of make ready but there's only >> so if they got approved in front of the planning board this board that would assume that they're going to put it in. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. They'll have make ready ones which
at some point could be and I don't know how you keep track of when they phase them in. >> Yeah. Unless they change the the level of charging. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, as long as we're consistent, whatever whatever we decide on, as long as we're consistent. >> Yeah. So, we know what's what's there.
And yeah, I think you're right. What's what's going to be built in the next whatever. >> Just I just checked, but the um Clover Hill has a weight limit four tons except local deliveries and it's at the intersection of Clover Hill and uh Old
York. >> Okay. Four tons. So, it's And that's where the bike lane is, too. >> It's on that road, but it's on the I don't know. Is it on both sides of that road? I know it's on >> Oh, no. >> Is it east to west side?
>> It's on the south side or the >> Yeah, it's coming from Am >> to Clover to OR. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Cool. >> I've been on it. >> That's >> Yeah, great to know. >> Took your life in your hand. No.
Um, and just to to recap about the EV, uh, Karen connected me with Gohan and so I'll ask that. >> Yeah, they have you can just go to their website there. >> Yeah, because that was just like just a state data set that we just pulled in something to start off. But yeah, so that's that's a great suggestion. Thank you.
>> Um, all right, moving to issues and opportunities. Um, so I like doing planning processes, I like to think of things as um issues and opportunities. issues pretty much are weaknesses, threats, things that can improve within the township, opportunities, uh
strengths and assets, things that the township can capitalize on, things that make the township unique. Um so that's just a little framing. Um so some top issues in the township are heavy truck activity, safety concerns and crash hotspots, lack of pedestrian bicycle
infrastructure, heavy reliance on cars, and lack of public transit. Um, so yeah. Are are there any anything else that you guys have noticed from a circulation point of view that uh you would classify as an issue in the township?
>> I was trying to think more about the map that you guys pulled together that had the pedestrian and the bicycle crashes >> and and trying Yeah. and trying to see if there's a group correlation between >> bring
>> yeah some of the the other stuff you know intuitively do we know what if there's other things going on that might be contributing to some of that >> um >> so like overlaying additional data >> yeah you know I was trying >> what kind of an intersection it is if
there's plane through there like is it controlled is it does it have a suicide lane or does it have a jug handle >> yeah yeah and yeah I'm not I'm not sure exactly what would be helpful but I just Like I looked at that map and I'm like, "Oh crap." So the the dark one is Ban Boulevard. >> Yeah. That was the one that jumped out
at me both from vehicular and pedestrian. >> Yeah. >> Bicycle standpoint. >> And so do we, you know, like that's a that's a big one. We we can we can get the specific crash reports from the police department now that we
are focusing in on things because we we had sent them a request and they just gave us numbers of crashes and then I went on to the NJ DOD website >> and pulled up the original >> got other stuff but now you can dig into crash reports and find out more now that you >> so that's where I think if we if we want
to start thinking like what do we need to like >> we don't have a lot of money >> you want to know what kind of accidents What what's going on? >> Yeah. Was it kids dashing across the road because they parked their cars illegally someplace else or kids walking home from Central? >> There's a lot of pink and orange like on
this map. Is does one crash get >> the darker it gets more? >> Yeah. The darker is like the multiple like overlay. >> But like if I'm just looking and I see like a pink circle, could that represent one crash? Like just pick an effort. We
also have this >> the list that Jay prepared. I just sort of mapped them and then it was this is mainly to see the overlapping. So >> I see. >> Yeah. >> But it doesn't necessarily mean a high quantity. It just means that's where an accident or accidents occurred >> because there's no scale. It's like
>> Yeah. That's what that's really >> or a thousand. >> Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I got you. >> Make that more clear. I I was just it was just my own curiosity to >> you know and then the the cluster >> larger bubble >> the cluster along
>> the cluster along 20 on 202 south of the circle I'm assuming again like people trying to get across >> it is amazing I drive people walk I'm like and I look at what are you doing it just makes no sense
>> or they're taking their bike across there and I'm like what are you doing >> there's no light there's There's no crosswalk. It's on a state highway. So there's a lot of you know so but that's where you know how could we make it
safer if you know the reality is when you see kids leaving Hunton Central walking along Fan till they get to that traffic light on 31 and then dashing across because the lighting is you know is is is it enough for pedestrian safety
to get across you know or do we need to work with the kids to you more education stop being stupid. >> I forget the name of the grant, but isn't there a isn't there to school? >> Yeah. Right. >> Safe streets for school for all. There's a bunch of safe streets family.
>> But also the plan would recommend, you know, partnering with schools doing like little educational activities and >> and that's where gound will go in and do it. If we identify hotspots, >> that's what they have staff for. So >> exactly. And we can identify those partnerships too.
>> Yeah. So that's the only thing the the only other one that was curious is that other blotch south of 202 and I think that's again we should know Bob because it's Vory's I think it's along Vory's corner road. No um to the east
that >> we're 68 whatever that gray reddish area there is that >> that's yeah that's old corner and old York intersection I think. Uh yeah, that's the other pink spot. I think further east. Yeah,
>> I think that's it. >> We're close. We're close. >> Yeah, here's 650 right here on this map. >> And it's these accidents that occurred. >> Yeah, that would be for his corner by that 650. >> Yeah, where that at the T intersection. So >> yeah, that's that's the one I talk
about. Yeah, you know, while there is a bike lane, maybe, you know, if we're going to talk about pedestrian safe, I mean, bicyclist safety and maybe get ballers in, maybe there's limited places where we've seen evidence of accidents like let's protect these people or our
kids biking to the baseball the soccer fields there. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I I don't know. >> Look, there's a lot that's a a lot of it's getting busier and busier. People are driving quickly, uh, making left turns. people are not paying attention. I drive there and I'm always looking to
see if people are even paying attention because they're looking to the left and they're not looking back to the right and it's just um that was actually pointed out in the previous study. That's where a light was supposed to be installed. >> Yeah. How Jay, how would it work? Like
if if a light went at um Old York and and Clover Hill and then like 150 ft away there'd be another light at you know you Mory's Corner Road in Old York. I mean that the
>> those don't work so well to have >> Yeah. >> phandoms like that. I I tend not to see the traffic. The light over at Clover Hill and and Old York tends to people are coming to that intersection. They're usually coming in from Hillsboro and they're turning right and then turning left.
>> That is the majority that I see. Right. Or >> the priority would be the light at >> at Old York and Boris because that's where I go there and I see people are waiting. I've waited five minutes to turn left. Yeah. Just >> especially if it's the afternoon and rush hour. Yeah.
Okay. Well, well, I think that seeing crash data is going to help us a lot because that'll shed light on the nature of crashes and accidents whether it's >> bicycles or pedestrians or >> or also also who's largely at fault too because maybe we need to educate
drivers, maybe we need to educate pedestrians and cyclists. Obviously, we probably educate both. But >> what period of time was this data from? Is it a one year? >> Five years. >> Five years. >> Five years. Okay. because it was it was a natural break because 2020 is not
really worth anything. >> So, we got 2021 to 2025 and you can even see >> total crashes in the township. We're still down >> coming out of 21 and then you could see it normalizing again. Mhm.
>> Um I can quickly just I got the total numbers. Uh 474 in 2021, 503 in 2022, 576 in 2023,
636 in 2024, and then down to 563 in 2025. >> And those are just the bike or that's total crashes in your township. Okay. Okay. Yeah, because to me, if I'm thinking about if there's pedestrian
and it's kids, to me that's one level of what you need to think about. And if it's kids on bikes, that's kind of like, you know, versus if it's an adult crossing you, you know, >> definitely. >> You know, I just think there might be different strategies. >> Yeah. Depending on on what exactly
happened, definitely different ways to approach it. Makes a lot of sense. and we'll we'll me and Jay will work together on uh fleshing that out a bit more and adding some that some of that specificity so then we can build on the recommendations. >> Yeah, because with the crash data if we
know like was there a crosswalk there? Was it were they crossing this? Were like >> Yeah. What factors are are feeding into a potential crash? >> Cool. Thank you. Um, moving on to opportunities.
So, as you guys can see, uh, Raritin is very well connected to the region. There's a strong planning framework to build off of. Some communities don't have any circulation plans or anything any previous planning documents really, uh, besides the ones that are required. Um, you guys have a very engaged
community, the suburban and rural character, and then existing parks and trails. Um, again, these are strengths of the township, things that that can be capitalized on. Um, and then I believe the next slide is just reserved for
discussion. Uh, if there's anything else related to uh top issues or opportunities related to circulation in the township, you haven't shared. I guess one of the things that when I
think about in the past five years or even 10 years, there's been times when as a planning board and even at board of adjustment, we've kind of waffled about making people put sidewalk across the front of their properties because we kind of said, "Well, there's no
sidewalks around them, so why should we make them put it in?" But now I I look at Fram Boulevard and it's come back to haunt us because we didn't make certain projects put sidewalks across the front, you know, and that's where, you know,
maybe a a reaffirmation of a policy that the board's intent is to get the sidewalks unless there's something like totally like there's a cliff and you can't build it or whatever. doesn't make sense. >> Are you speaking generally or are you
talking more specifically because I in my neighborhood I don't want sidewalks? >> No, it would be a lot not on residential. So that's where if we articulated a clearer goal in our plan that says on these types of roads at
these level of service. So our smaller residential neighborhoods to me um >> to me like putting that in the master plan. Well, as a goal in this plan element in this this becomes a master plan element, you know, I just think thinking like no, I our neighborhoods
don't, but Woodside Farms when you're getting close to JP case. >> Yeah. So, I think I think >> so that's where getting into those I think when we talk about areas where there's commerce, areas where there's industry where people may need to walk >> or where kids may need to be walking to
school. >> Yes, I agree. And I think what do we we have to get into here is how do we prioritize all this stuff and I have some thoughts around that when we think about what are those and I couldn't agree with you more right is it one side is it two side I think we got to evaluate that specifically but looking
and saying look within these areas if their kids can walk to school and it's walkable they should have safe place to walk that's without to me it's how do we not think of this how do we not plan for this >> boggles my mind right so we we got to >> prioritize those areas and say this has
got to be focused on, right? Versus like I said in my neighborhood, why do I need a sidewalk? I'm in a culde-sac. Nobody's ever coming down my >> kids can safely walk along some of these low inensity residential developments and get to >> a sidewalks.
>> I made a mistake of buying a house with a sidewalk and every time it snowed I was like >> wasn't thinking when I bought it. you know, but yet I mean my that's where my thought is like we have a lot of needs. So like how do we really hone in on what's going to be our biggest bang for the buck?
>> Yeah. So when I looked at this right and now we talk about priorities I'll get into some of the other thoughts because I this is a great map right and I'm pointing to the one with all the crashes right I would love to see this overlaid with the bike map then our sidewalks and if we can s some somehow visualize that
and say >> look we got to get these areas this is number one number two and number three right because of these things when we start to overlay that I think we start to see what are the opportunities and why these are the things we should be focusing on first, >> right? You could triage it. That's
that's what I think, right? Um >> that's a great idea. I love that. Yeah. Overlaying the data, then we can see where what to prioritize. Yeah, that's a great idea. >> I I and I was going through this today, reading through this, and I would love to just put all this stuff in AI and say, tell me what I should go after
first, right? I think as a as a point of view just as a as a as a reference to said tell me what what you think I should be doing because there's a lot of wealth and very good information in here. Um but from a pri I wonder how do we get out there from a priority perspective and
when we look at this report are we going to get very how specific are we going to be on on outcomes when I saw a lot of things that were missed out and it was very specific around Everett Road. Yeah. Dayton Road, US 202, and I even saw Boy
Corner and and we've talked about, right? And I marvel at that intersection. So instead of putting a line in, what did they do? They put two lanes in so people can turn right more rapidly. I happen to turn left and I have to wait for cars to clear so I can actually see the oncoming traffic is
coming because they block my road. I happen to have a bigger vehicle. So I inch my way forward so they can't see left. So they can't. So now they're fighting each other. So I get what they tried to do. it actually was counterproductive. There used to be a large tree there. So when I think about some of these things and maybe some of
these incidents occur from a a line of visibility or a line of sight that is is really being encroached or impinched about I know we got the one on Bart's corner where businesses I think Jay we talked about this at a at a committee meeting where businesses were complaining they said I can't see
allowed right that that's a that's a safety thing right you know so from a from a crash perspective so getting back to the the priorities so what what is going to be the the outcome are we going to see levels specificity around very specific things or are these going to be more general in nature?
>> Typically, they're more general in nature, but I do like the idea of prioritizing even if it's just like, you know, this general area of the townships, uh these type of intervention interventions should be prioritized given crashes, lack of sidewalks, proximity to schools, current land use.
So definitely that depending how how that goes then we can dial in a little bit more on the specificity but right off the bat these are more general and then as the township goes to implement you get more specific >> general how do we prioritize right
because I think we're going to want to get after things we can attack and we're going to talk about how do we get after that and hopefully it's part of this conversation. One of the other thoughts I had is when I think about our truck traffic because we hear a lot of complaints about that and if we have the ability to restrict things, but restrict
things in a I'm going to say in a little bit more strategic way and and here's an example and and I'm going to reference my neighborhood because I live there and I drive there a lot. Dory Dilts and I hear people complain there's traffic on Dory Dilts but if I don't allow traffic on Old York there's no way they're going
down Dory delts unless they're coming from three end they're going the wrong way and then where are they going then they're going to be on a road that so if we can think of I don't want to have no truck signs all over the place but if we can get very strategic by eliminating some of those other streets well you
can't get there from here right type of approach I think that might be useful way of thinking about how we we we kind of confine that >> I don't know how easy or difficult that is, but but look, that's just one example. I know if we did that and there's no reasons why people should be
driving up Bory Delts to turn on the Bor's Corner that just go to Old York Road and then go out to 2002. It just doesn't make sense. >> Yeah. And that bridge, is there a weight limit on that little bridge that blew out during Sandy? >> Oh, they redid all that.
>> Yeah. But it wasn't like it was mega rebuilt. though. >> That's right. That's right. I don't know how how like weight limits on bridges can inform weight limits on roads. I mean, is there usually a relationship or
depends? >> Well, the county owns all those bridges, so they have to take care of all that stuff, >> right? >> And they the ones that have to recommend. >> Yeah. But the we could re we could amplify the need since that's a municipal road
>> and there is a framework you're given that you're stuck with which is the the access network for trucks which is all state highways and all 500 series roads >> are allowed to be truck routes. >> Right.
>> So that's got and when you do a restriction you can't ent trap anybody. Okay. So, you have to make sure you give them a way to get >> to those places. So, that's kind of the framework where you'd be able to build out your uh um weight restrictions like
we did on that section of Pennsylvania Avenue because we told them they could take Royal Road >> and get out to the state highway or they could get out uh out to 202 case. >> Uh but no, Delta is a local road. It's not a it's not a collector.
>> Right. Then now >> did you say regarding the specificity? >> I was just going to add that the existing uh master plan pointed out a lot of spot improvements that were also identified. It doesn't have a ranking as its prioration,
but it does get specific in in regards to recommendations. So that's something that would would also be in this. >> So that'll carry forward. Yeah. Okay. And if there I did notice there were a few things that had been done. They were little. >> That's a Yeah.
>> Yeah. So that's where you know maybe when we figure out priorities there may some of the things may be on this list and we just say instead of being one of 30 we'd like you to be the top 10 or something, you know. >> Does the zoning ordinance speak at all
to sidewalk requirements for any land development or would that just be a comment from professionals reviewing each site plan? I believe there is some promotion as far as walkability, but it's it's not a requirement. It's more of a design standard that that it also
is being brought up. So, it's not it's not labeled as such. So, >> so that's where we could amplify things if we want it more. >> I know in the Larkin application that was a a design waiver request. They made the argument that there was no
connectivity and they wanted to save the money on the sidewalk. >> Yeah. I brought it up with that but then it didn't make sense because there was no >> sidewalks on on either side >> right there is a sidewalk there now >> is that we're talking about too >> no on road
>> just so then so I'm going I'm bring one more note that I have up on trucks when we talk about woodmont bronze and truck entrance and exit >> this is going to I thought they were supposed to have an off-ramp and an on-ramp >> and there's none of that >> what road did you say that was
>> this is going to be on route 202. Okay. So, I can envision trucks waiting for the light to turn red, start pulling out, and when it goes green, everyone's going to be pushing over to the left to get around them. This is going to be a nightmare. >> I thought there was supposed to be enough room on the shoulder for them to
not an official turning lane, Jay, but I thought there was supposed enough room on the shoulder for the trucks to make the >> turn without blocking the highway. >> We're talking about that new one. >> Yeah. Yeah. the warehouse, the big >> the big warehouse that still doesn't
have a sign. >> Okay. Yeah, I do remember reviewing those DOT plans and I believe you are correct. Um they were accounting for that. Um I think the DOT was making them do heavy duty pavement in that shoulder. The idea being
>> So they're supposed to pull up on the shoulder, >> but is it it's not marked. It's just going to be a white line that they're going to >> Is that how the DOT handles that >> typically? Yes. But then they'll flare it at the driveway. >> Okay. >> For for the turn. >> Okay.
>> So, >> thank you all. Um All right. I think it's time to move on to goals. So, um plan goals. Uh I reviewed uh previous planning documents uh and
distilled all of the goals into three categories. vehicular circulation, integrated policy, and alternative transportation. Um, each of these categories or buckets has one goal. Um, so if there's any word smithing that you guys want or or something pops up in
your brain that that you want a goal to uh, you know, capture, please let me know. Um, but, you know, goals are are meant to be lofty and, you know, vague. And then as you go down in in the process through strategies, actions, recommendations, they get more specific.
Um Bobby had feedback. >> Um yeah, but when you're talking about both at a high level, I was going to give more specific. Um when when I looked at this work and I look at our neighbors and one neighbor that happens to sit in the hole of our
donut, um do they do you know if they have a circulation plan? So Jay, do you know off the top of that? I >> I think they are trying to effort that at this time >> and the reason why I ask it would be
wonderful if somehow these things kind of because we are so close and it is kind of many people cut through there um whether it's pedestrians, whether it's cyclists, clearly cars, >> right? And I think that's where the the count the county bicycle plan and some
of the county stuff can can help pull that together as well. But I totally agree with you. There should be >> so the burrow at this point you don't think has a circulation. >> Well, it it's dated because I know they uh they were um talking about updating
that. Um I do represent that burrow as well as their traffic consultant and >> Okay. >> There was talk, you know, five years ago and I haven't seen anything since then. >> Well, you can go tell them what an amazing circulation plan we have. They're way >> and I can even recommend somebody.
>> Yeah. Thanks J. Um so through my pre just fun fact through my previous employer I worked on their land use element and economic development plan element and that was 2022 and at that moment we didn't do the circulation plan but that's that's interesting to know that they're
thinking about doing one because that would be cool to have that integration and cohesiveness between both. >> I thought on our broader borders but it's it tends to get a bit more remote. Um but Flyingington I think there's a lot of synergy here or should be and would be nice if we're working particularly when they're looking at
things like the rail line and and opportunities for recreational that or at least hiking or biking along that I think that makes a lot of sense >> for sure. Yeah, I agree. It's a great suggestion. >> So you're suggesting under the three
categories areas you'd aspire for one goal. Currently there's one goal under each category. Um there could be more if we want to split up um like for example the vehicular circulation. It uh references safety and efficiency. Those could
easily be split into two different goals like one focusing primarily on safety, one focusing on the efficient movement of you know vehicles throughout the township. So >> I don't want to discount safety but I am very passionate about efficiency and getting through this town because it's a
nightmare especially during rush hour. So maybe carve out efficiency. >> Yeah, >> because I like I said, I don't want to discount safety because a lot of people brought it up tonight, but I haven't heard anybody discuss really efficiency and getting through the town.
>> And that ties in with the burrow, too, because >> it's I mostly go north to south and sometimes west. I very rarely travel in the eastern part of the township anymore, and you guys have spoken a lot about that, but going north south, there's no good way to go.
>> Yeah. and a gridlock starting three o'clock in the afternoon. >> Yeah. Well, I I I live um on Old Clinton Road. So, I get in on Sand Hill and I go down 31 and I go about 100 yards and it starts gridlocking at the hospital. >> Yeah. >> And you go, you don't really drive. You
more shuffle from light to light. Yeah. >> And I go all the way to Well, I go to Trenton. So, I usually go down 20231. Then I usually break off and take 179 to 29. I go that way. >> Yeah. But that's where are you know >> there's no good way to get through the township >> right so that's where some of the re the
longstanding recommendations about some additional >> connector roads or >> through roads or things like that >> plenty of back roads and different ways to go but that just puts more traffic on the minor collector roads as I believe they're called in the local
>> because depending on the day of the week and the time of the day tells me what direction I'm going from point A to point B I'm not going there I'm going this Well, like when I come here, I don't go through town. I take Barton Hollow. Um, Sand Hill, Barton Hollow, Pleville, to
Barton. >> More traffic on my old York Road because everyone's trying to bypass. >> Sure. That's what happens when the main arteries have too much traffic. people start going to their plan B or plan C, the alternate routes, and that just puts more traffic on the roads that aren't really meant to have
>> the goal that traffic efficiency or optimizing the appropriate use of our roadways. Like that's the problem when when people >> I think that's two sides of the same coin. >> Yeah. Yeah. Efficiency just sounds like we don't care if we're going to kill somebody in the way if it's as long as
it's efficient. >> Well, I wasn't thinking back like I know what I mean. Although when I've been sitting in traffic, >> but that's where I think some of it might be >> you can start think somebody better be doing
>> but no the only other thing that >> but yeah I don't want to discount safety but yes we do need to try and optimize or somehow >> right for the benefit of the residents and the >> commercial traffic too. Yeah they got places. Yeah. Yeah.
>> And I think when efficiency is done right, it promotes safety. >> Absolutely. >> Exactly. >> Because now you have people who aren't rushing around driving like maniacs because >> trying to cut through these places where they shouldn't be cutting through. >> Good point. Good point. Yes. >> Yeah. It's a great point. The other the other thing with the uh third bullet the
third goal area I guess I'd like to see one thing I think we've actually >> missed some opportunities on is partnering with some of the agencies like um go hundred in and the t the uh
TMA and stuff like that because they got money and they got resources and I you know I know and yeah and they've done so you know something in that goal to add in while we're going to integrate with their stuff but also more effectively
partner and utilize resources available to our community because you know I think they got some good stuff. >> Yeah, >> that's a great idea. >> The only other kind of it's so I know at least two of our schools are doing
safe routes to school and walking school bus and all that kind of stuff with >> so I think it might be interesting. They might have some good information about where are they getting walkers and bikers from because when they do that they organize the whole walking school bus or the parents to go along with the
bikers on the couple days of year that they promote the kids to do. It just might be an interesting data point that if we're going to try and prioritize where do we want to get bike lines, lanes, where do we want to make sure we have better sidewalk connectivity, you know, I would think their safe routes to
school coordinator, the school districts would have ideas, but I think the safe routes to school coordinator working with the school would would have some I think useful information. >> What are the two schools? Copper Hill. >> Um, um, JP Case and Well, I guess the
other school is not Floodington is in Flington. I don't know if this one does. Do you know if >> Robert Hunter does? I don't know if they do. I know JP Case does because I've seen them mobilized. Um, but I would just talk to the the safe routes to
school coordinator. >> Yeah, that's a great idea. We'll definitely can look into that. Cool. Your last point, alternative transportation. So, as I read through this, one thing I didn't see really kind of highlighted. I I I love the fact when
it gave a little bit of historical perspective on how we kind of got here and the rapid growth and and really cars worthy transportation. That's the Tom Motor. And I sit there and I looked at this. I'm like, that's what we did. How do we undo it? Right? That's why there's not enough room for bike lanes um and
and sidewalks because we didn't effectively plan. I don't know how we undo that and create that space other than making the roads more narrow. Uh but when we think about alternative um modes of transportation and as I drive around, what do I see
more and more? I see more ebikes. >> Yeah. How does that >> and I'm like is that a good thing or a bad thing? And I think personally if we want to encourage alternate people aren't going to bicycle. We have a very hilly community and it just it's it creates people are going to get exhausted. Maybe they don't want to work
out as much but I'm seeing these ebikes and e- scooters which I have one and it's a lot of fun. >> They go fast. Yeah, >> they do. But do we want to encourage that and how do we promote that and support that? And then I think about it when they get to their destination are
there charging capabilities for them? And so it's it's a different way but I don't think we really stepped up and looked at that element. And I'm thinking because this is a plan, right, for the future, we got to be thinking hoverboard, right? Because they're going to be coming out in the next 10 years. But you get my point, right? We're
thinking about we're thinking about today. But what what might be coming? And if people are looking for alternative, greener forms of way of commuting, smaller vehicles, more electric, I don't know. Is this are we ready for that? But I'd rather think through that a little bit and and plan for that if we can.
>> Yeah, that's a great suggestion. And this is exactly the opportunity. As you said, this is a plan for the future. So, you know, I'll look at the APAC uh American Planning Association to see what guidance they have for, you know, future transportation options and could definitely start >> bikes. I see more and more of those. I
just think it's going to happen more people and that's a cleaner way of getting around. >> See a lot of them on Mory's Corner Road. >> Sure do. >> Yeah, definitely. Uh fold that in. >> All right. Um so thank you all for the
feedback for the goals. Moving on. So um the rest of the plan there's a bit of a hierarchy. So it's goals the overarching then we get more specific as we go down. So then strategies and then uh actions and then that takes us to our next section um draft strategies and actions.
Most of these are just pulled from the 2008 circulation plan and the 2012 bike and ped plan. We did throw a few other ones in there, but the bulk of them are pulled from previous planning documents. Um, so as I mentioned before, they're
nested under the goal category. So for vehicular circulation, uh, that first one we have, you know, the township should continue to place weight restrictions on roads. Um, the township should continue to evaluate the feasibility of the roadways identified
in the 2008 circulation plan element. the spot improvements that uh Jeff brought up earlier that get very specific um and then additional locations for EV charging and I do want to beef up that strategy a bit so um after discussions with godan and stuff
and then um moving on to the next slide. Um, one strategy that came up in the subcommittee meeting on Friday was uh public awareness about road safety specifically with sharing the road with farm equipment or school buses. Um, and
that may include, you know, educational uh materials, signage, >> throw in cyclists as well. >> You have to because people are not paying attention to cyclists. >> We're going to educate. We should include all that.
Many drivers think they have the right away. >> Say the motorcycle driver. I can tell you that that's correct. I'm sure they're not looking at all the motorcycles. >> Um and then the individual
uh actions. So moving on to the next slide can be found on page 37 and 38 of the the big draft plan and that has all the specifics. Um, some of them were signalizing intersections, traffic swinging in specific locations. Um, so a
good range of things. And then the master plan >> I did see adding another circle like not >> this was developed when roundabouts were really >> it was a big thing in 2008. Basically, >> I mean proposal for down at Rayville in Old
York. >> If you want to condemn a lot of properties, you can put money in but or the where you know. So I that's where some of these we may decide or will date it. Plus they also closed one of the recommendations down there. They already
closed off that other um I guess it was >> oh that cutth through extra traditions. >> Yeah. Cutthrough is gone. And that was one of the things it was recommended to be a pedestrian connector but like between the two. Yeah. Whatever. So I
think some of that some of that needs to be toast. Um, you know, and then just I think that there's some things that could be eliminated. >> Perfect. But >> yeah, that's the the bullet that goes over.
>> I enjoy the circles. >> Oh, I guess that's not just not on Saturday morning when you get the Pennsylvania drivers over here. >> I'm sure. >> No, I like roundabouts. But >> you're a Pennsylvania driver. Yeah, >> I live in Pennsylvania.
>> I know. He seemed okay, didn't he? >> There wasn't much judgment in that. >> No, I like I like roundabouts, I think. But given those that historic Rayville, there's unless you're going to condemn a whole lot of houses. >> I think you were talking about one right
here, right in Dayton. And uh >> Yeah, that's >> Yeah. Yeah. I think setting or >> that one that one might work actually because there it's a big enough area you could probably get the roundabout in there if >> I was when you guys when you mentioned the circles. Um I drive out periodically
to visit my sister in Reading, Pennsylvania on Route 20 22 out there. They've been putting in small circle after small circle after small circle. >> But they used to have traffic lights and they're trying to encourage traffic to just keep on moving rather than stop stop. So there's a time and a place for
circle, but they're trying to encourage more traffic flow to keep it moving. And they don't have the heavy, >> see Pennsylvania, >> they have moderate traffic, I'd say, >> right? >> You go up to New England, the roundabouts are handled one way. >> And once you're on it, you have the right away. You get on it, you must
yield. They're all the same. >> Yeah. >> All makes sense, right? >> If we here, we change it. >> Yeah. That's we retrofitted existing circles which the geometry isn't designed as a roundabout. Circles you go in on the outside edge. Roundabouts you
go in perpendicular. So that how they can slow you down. >> Yeah, that makes sense. >> So but or circles people come flying in from the outside, right Jay? And go whip. >> That's a circle. A roundabout is always traffic entering yields. So if you're in
it, you have the right of what that's the definition of a roundabout. They and they try and try and make them a little bit more perpendicular if they can. But >> okay, I'm with you on that with that, but people are going to be confused. >> Yeah, >> we can also make the language a little more big. You know, like traffic
improvements at this intersection or something and leave it to whoever is implementing >> ter traffic circle roundabout. >> So the next set of recommendations, the bypass properties. >> Yes. So under integrated policy, it's
the next sort of bucket. >> Yeah. >> Um want to go to the next slide. Thank you. Um first strategy, you know, uh when the county finishes the 2026 bicycle plan, implement where where
appropriate. Um and then Donna, as you mentioned, the the bypass properties. So, we discussed a little bit with Sorry about what? >> No, I I'll let you try. >> I was just going to say we discussed with the subcommittee um and I think the initial thoughts for the bypass
properties for was um for bike and pedestrian improvements. Um but I would love to hear your thoughts on that. Jeff prepared a map highlighting the properties which is very helpful. So, that is something that can definitely be fleshed out a little bit more. Yeah, I think what part of the my when I started
looking at the properties in the property list, I don't I can't tell which ones have actually been preserved and bought. So, are all these on this list ones that have already been bought? >> Yeah, that's correct. They're all owned by JD. >> Okay. So, I think just a clarification
like these are properties DOT owns. So, you know, >> I've reached out from our open space to try because the county's acquiring or attempting to acquire one of those. I'm trying to I asked what can we do to get the rest? >> Mhm. >> And I haven't heard back, but I'm going to keep trying.
>> Yeah. So, you know, I I think most of us would support trails in open space. >> Yeah. >> I know the open space committee is looking into it. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But Jeeoff, I did notice there's one property that doesn't have a number on
it. It's the one that goes between Um, Bartles Corner and Wait, I had that's Could you do an older person a really big favor?
>> Could you make these maps and the fonts a little bigger? Even if you if you could even just so when they print out their 11 by 70. I I literally had my flashlight out multiple times today trying to read because when the font gets down to like a two or >> Yeah.
Um, >> yeah, it's in. >> Yeah. And what is that? >> It's pink on the map. >> Maybe up there by the number the red one. Between like by number it's there's
nine and 10. Between n between nine. No, between eight and 10. >> Eight nine. >> This one between eight and 10. That would be >> that one. Is that out? Oh, so the that between junction and uh that's the actual right of way. That's the
>> So they they reser they have they own the right of way or no? >> That couple on River Road there was actually a right of way for the bypass. I can't confirm whether or not it still exists for any of the properties, but that >> that section is not owned. It's it's
where the bypass was going to be constructed. That's just depicting what it's the shape file will be >> for where it's going to be. Well, I'm just >> Okay. Okay. I'm just
>> No, no, no, no, no. I'm just if because that's a property of lot of interest. This isn't that the one right next to >> the red and gray between eight and n that it or >> Yeah, that's that's what you're referring. The red and and gray section.
Yeah. You're talking about right here, right? >> Yeah. Um Yeah. I mean, this partial. >> Yeah. That section right there. >> Says 46 Royal Road, but that's >> that seeation. Isn't that the one >> number four?
Okay. Yeah. Because you're looking at corner right there. >> That's okay. >> Yeah. My glasses don't fine. I don't Okay, >> the the format of the final plan will will be different and I'll definitely
make things bigger. So, yes. >> Yeah. So, I think a little bit is a language around the bypass properties just saying these are ones that currently DOT owns and >> you know yada yada. >> Yeah, that is a great point. Yeah, really making that clear that DOT owns them and they're they're right for
improvements given that ownership >> and there might be some other needs the township may or may not support for uses on some of those parcels where active recreation includes maybe some parking
and things like that. So she's not our property yet. >> No, nobody's property. Do you If I can ask, will you get when you integrate the the bike map from the county? Hopefully they're far enough
along because Jeff and I met with the present on the folks that presented that >> and they asked us a couple of questions about within and a lot of them happened to be around I think is it south and in that area we're they said would
you like more or less and my answer was more and I want to make sure we include the picture that had more. >> Okay. >> Right. is we want to create those opportunities to the shopping centers to the restaurants and things of that nature that really help promote that.
I'm not sure if this the one you had included the more is it there was one that had a couple and there was one that they said and I opted for the more. >> Okay. Yeah, we can we can coordinate and make sure that that the more is included. Um,
>> perfect. All right. I feel like that's a good segue to um the next goal category which is alternative transportation. Um so again, uh a lot of this is just pulled through. Um so the spot
improvements from the 2008 plan, the recommendations from the 2012 bike ped plan. Um we touched on it a little bit earlier, but you know, funding mechanisms should be explored. safe streets for all partnerships with uh public and private entities and um I can
add that specificity you know calling out goundan calling out different organizations um with specific partnership specific projects uh stuff like that >> if you're going to reach out to go hundred because I haven't heard they're they're they I know they they're big fans of cyclist but I'm not sure where
they stand are they promoters of the ebikes as well and eBay of pools >> I can definitely ask uh Karen connected me with them Um, so we can we can see what >> they're a great organization. I'd really like to understand what their what their approach is to to that as well. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. I'll definitely ask that when uh I meet with them. Um, so going on to the next slide. Um, so that first strategy is uh, you know, just improvements for the existing bike lanes. uh whether that be safety, visibility, striping, paving,
ballards to protect the lanes. Um you know, just casting a wide net for whatever gets implemented down the line. Um and then that second strategy on this slide is building off of the study that I believe Ruckers did, right Jeff? Um
regarding River Road, the greenway. Um so you know just yep >> highlighting that um potential conversion to oneway greenway you know setting the stage for probably a future study just on >> something that could happen didn't you
do a traffic assessment and determine that we can't make it one way so that's where I guess there needs to be cons >> we had some work done >> okay >> so I >> I do remember looking at that um a while
back and there were some circulation issues created no matter which way you made it. >> Okay, >> one way. Um, the thing I see out there a lot is the peel off from 202 southbound on the
river. So, if you made it one way the other way, you could force them to case, >> which is where we want them. So, I mean, I can certainly revisit that. Well, I think just, you know, whatever and I I
just recall you had done some kind of a level of an assessment and I think that should be reflected somehow in this. >> I agree, >> you know, and along that too along with your Pennsylvania Avenue
um work. >> Great point. Thank you. Um and yeah, Jay and I will coordinate and uh beef up that recommendation or or peel it back uh whatever is more appropriate. >> I think that now it's coming back to my
mind. Um the sensitivity there was for the existing residents >> and what that's going to impose on them if it becomes one way and the inconveniences and lack of efficiency. No, this was the first time I saw really limited to what was it between Case and
Rockefeller Middle Lane, right? That was where this was talking about creating one one way just in that one. >> Okay. So, it was it was a sub segment then. >> Not the whole looked at way up. There's multiple residents along that whole stretch. >> Yeah. When Ruckers did the study, it was
from actually Northlands. There was going to be a proposed >> Oh, is that right? >> Yeah. Possibly um trail head there. Did I misread because I thought this just talked about just that one little section where it's still narrow but the curve would still be two lanes which would then force traffic eventually down
Rockefeller main which doesn't >> well somebody else's problem I guess is >> would not like that. I'm sure, but on that one, >> that's where it originated was that it was going to go from Northlands one way then, but I guess when they did
some presentations, it was it it came up to be either, but it was supposed to go from Northlands all the way up to even uh where domination is. So, there was there were spots along >> Oh, wow. >> It was a a full-on project there. >> Well, that's interesting. Yeah.
>> Well, that would be also challenging because there's a lot more. There's a housing development back up in there. >> Yeah. And it there was talks about maybe a property being purchased by the township or the county as a as a as a um as a parking area as well. So it was
very um >> it was pretty aggressive. >> Pretty aggressive. Yeah. >> Okay. And this was done in 2014 and I don't know what happened from there. I don't know if it just dropped or there was plans to revisit it but it's >> it just dropped I think.
>> Yeah. So there there that may be a a archaeological relic. You know this has been done but the land use and things have changed and we we're looking at other issues along some of those
segments of river road. >> Cool. Sounds good. Yeah. Yeah. We'll coordinate and get to the bottom of that and update it. Um perfect. And then the last strategy uh for alternative transportation is um where appropriate
integrate uh FHWA small town and rural design guidelines. Um so I know this is a little bit of like word vomit. It's a lot of text, but in your uh in the draft plan, there's some pictures on what each of those uh improvements are. And and for this, I was really just, you know,
trying to cast a wide net, add some really soft language, you know, where appropriate. Um nothing too prescriptive, but sort of just like a guide. And then if you guys are curious, um the FHWA small town rural design guide, it is a it's a pretty nice
website, nice guide book. Um, so yeah, shows some different typologies and stuff of transportation improvements. So, but again, nothing too prescriptive with that one. Um, and then moving on to the next
slide. Um again, just broadly some actions that were pulled through um from previous planning documents, installing sidewalks in certain locations, uh stops for pedestrians, bike lane restriping, scenic route designation, and uh that
full list can be found on page 42 and 43 of the draft plan of and those are those very specific uh actions, recommendations, and then uh discussion So, I know we discussed a lot
>> before Oh, yep. Before you get there. >> So, the population forecast, I thought our population was already at 24 over 24,000 and and you projected to get there by 2050. So, I >> I Yeah, I I know the I only go on voter
registrations. >> Oh, well, that's >> that's I look at that for other reasons. I don't know. Uh and it went actually down from the previous one. So I when I quick looked at the 2025 census it said it was 25,281
and when I looked at the census Bureau of American community community survey it said it was 24 361 and 24. Okay. That's where I just was surprised cuz I I know we've we have been going up
slowly or slowly or that's not a word slower than in the past. >> According to AI the population the is 25,281. >> Yeah, that's the census. >> Yeah, that's where I just you know >> I'll double check those numbers. Yeah, I
believe we pulled them right from the NJTPA, which they're required to have those forecasts, but depending on when they did them, they might be a little dated, so maybe we'll run our own little population projection based off of more recent data. >> The fairly I I agree. I think the report
I I would agree is going to be moderate growth. Uh but when I looked at the housing, our affordable housing unit exceeds what what the numbers are there. Whether we have faith that we're going to have be able to hit those numbers or not, I don't know. But, uh, I just know
we're we're challenged on many fronts. >> Yeah, thank you for flagging that. But, I'll definitely look into that because I I believe the population forecast projection that's like one of the required components of the circulation plan. So, it's important that we get that one right. Um,
yeah. So, thank you. Um but yeah, so discussion I uh I feel like we've talked about a lot but I wanted to open up the floor if there's anything else. >> I have another >> topic. So uh throughout this report and I'm sorry if I'm speaking too much but
this is fascinating to me and I'm very interested as you can tell. Uh when I read through the report and I looked at all the items that were pointed out in the previous and they're still outstanding. This is maybe more of a board's discussion and and and helping me understand being on the
township committee. How does this become actionable and how do we ensure we are embracing this and asking the question for new development projects specifically when it's going to affect our traffic in any way, shape, or form that we somehow start to tick these
things off. We start making this a priority and we get after it. I I don't know. Who does that fall on? Is that It can't be this young man right here. >> It falls on me to present it >> and for the board to know.
>> Say again. >> It falls on me to present it to the board and make them aware. It's it's so that it's somewhat >> you telling you there's no priority here, >> but then also to flip it back. It's the township committee needs to appropriate
the money to do the work and there has to be support from the committee. >> No, there's no money >> and the traffic engine there's no money or there is money. >> So I you know I think that's where it's multiple levels of responsibility. Yes.
You know, there's things we can do as a planning board, but there's stuff we can't there's stuff that's existing we can't touch as a planning board. That's >> But if it's a >> So, all right, I'm gonna >> a recommendation and the board is aware of certain areas and it's a >> right effort of of requesting it.
>> So, when Woodmont want Bronze uh came in front of us, we and went for the pilot, we asked for a bunch of stuff. We got some things. We didn't get everything we asked for. one of those items because we knew the that we had a traffic problem on Case Boulevard and particularly the
residents over is it Wood >> Woodside Farm. >> Woodside Farm. Thank you. And we had asked that we could put in one of those flashing you press the button and >> flashes so at least traffic can see that that someone's crossing. And I think that's a a fine example when we talk
about new projects coming in. what what leverage do we have asking folks to provide things like that? >> So, I know that our ordinance had a traffic um contribution and Jay, correct
me. It but I I think that was either legally not allowed or just >> there was some um recommendation that it wasn't. There was actually a contribution where the developer had to put in a uh percentage as part of their
um before they got a building permit and then it went into a a fund to then go into certain um intersections like for the industrial park on Royal Road. >> All of that was supposed to then have
maybe improvements to that intersection on Church and to put in a possibility of a light. Um, so that was throughout the 90s and and the 80s of of of contributions for that effect. I I don't know if that we don't do that anymore. I
don't know if there was >> we don't do it because we can't do it or we don't do it because we just don't do it. I don't know if there's a legal thing why. >> I believe we can't. And >> we can or can't. >> Is that correct? Did the municipal land use law get amended that you're not allowed to collect for offtracked
off-site improvements? >> I believe so. Yeah. So if it's a pilot that all bets are off, >> right? You can leverage whatever you want. >> I'm just getting clarity and getting educated. >> Well, >> I believe that's the case, too. In another town that I work in, they they
would they had a sidewalk trust fund and they were really getting a lot of money from developers and then I think they got into legal trouble and and they don't do it anymore either. So yeah, I mean I'd said the issue to me from a legal standpoint is whether it's considered an exaction
>> as part of the approval and that the New Jersey Supreme Court has clearly said is illegal. >> So and I got a lot of that um my when I lived in Warren County, we would go up my daughter played a lot in Pennsylvania and everybody's like why do they have
all these beautiful rec centers and you know in New Jersey everything is like broken down. And I'm like, because in Pennsylvania are legal. So they they tell the developer, you want to put in these 500 homes, you got to build a $5 million,
you know, rec center and you have to pay for it or we're not going to approve it. So they do it and then they take the cost and they just add $50,000 to every house >> and then, you know, they spread it, but you that was litigated in New Jersey. The Supreme Court said, "No, you can't
do it." So my understanding is you can require a developer um to have to make certain road improvements if it's if it's directly connected to that particular development but not beyond it. >> Right. Right. That rational nexus.
>> Yeah. >> Argument. Then how come we can have them do like for trees like pioneer they want to rather than replant the trees they want to >> because it's tied to it's tied it's tied to the it's tied to the property. Yeah. >> Now to the extent that they don't
they're not needed or and and it's just it's a it's kind of like the old transfer of affordable housing you know into the cities where you'd get a credit. That's kind of that's kind of what we're doing with >> the difference is they're making that impact on their own property.
>> So that's and and violating our standards. So that's why we can make them do something. Whereas >> correct >> if you're saying your your pollution from all your trucks are going to kill trees over there. We can't make them replant those trees, >> you know. So it's direct impact versus
like interesting. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Since we all are sharing the fun and blame and love, um, can I ask that when we do our annual report that this planning board continue to remind the
township committee of the things that are important that we have to figure out how to get done? >> This board does not do an annual report. That's the board of adjustment. >> All right. Then I'm going to ask Ken this morning. >> We I mean, Jeff, you've historically
come up with a list of recommended ordinances. we have to modify and things like that that the board for for carries forward. So in that kind of >> I'm trying to fix the this is for this is bad. We do all this wonderful work,
we get this great report and we're going to create these great plans and then we're going to let them collect dust. That doesn't seem right to me. >> I agree. We don't want to drop the ball on implementation. We just have to I don't know if it's a matter of figuring out an action plan or what, but yes, we
definitely don't want to drop the ball. We just need to figure out how best to do that. >> Well, we have in the past. I'm trying to prevent that from now that we know this, how do we fix it? >> Yep. >> And obviously during traffic reviews, if we see a rational nexus between a
development impact and something list, then >> yeah, >> then we can legally do that >> in a review comment. >> Yeah. But and then that's maybe where um
meetings with the road and engineering department to help you know like did was there any in outreach to I mean we've had new staff that's part of I mean engineering we haven't but um
in-house engineering I should say >> there hasn't but there certainly can be >> well I just you know I mean >> at DPW >> Yeah and DPW DPW is a director will do once we provide them budget to go do it. >> Well, but I'm just saying they may know
of areas where they have chronic problems or you know um John Tully may know where he gets the phone calls all the time about people >> jonesing about something. So that you know related to traffic and circulation it's
>> you know if we want to get them to buy into >> Yeah, that's a great point. deporting our plan. Then maybe if they're asked like are you know is there anything else that you can think we need to add to the list of improvements? >> I think that's a fantastic idea. >> Or if they're going to be ripping a road up to put new storm sewers in, maybe we
get sidewalks along in the same process. Those kind of >> if they're needed. Yeah, >> we could go full crazy and require sidewalks, Bob. You know, >> in my neighborhood, >> not shovel. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. That'll send a letter saying, "Shuffle your sidewalk." >> Yeah. >> Oh gosh. Miss >> Yeah. Yeah. That's not a lot of footage. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Most towns have a >> per se. >> Yeah, it should be.
>> So, that's pretty much everything I have. I have a few more slides with some like framing questions, but I believe we we covered most of it. Um, >> yeah, just, you know, we talked about truck traffic areas of concern we discussed. Um, and I believe the next slide is
just, you know, sorry. Yeah, the only one that I did want to bring up now was potential uh parallel connection from 202 to RA uh from Ray to V's Corner. Um just because there's active applications
um both with the board of adjustment and >> I think it's with the planning board. What >> I think it's in there. >> I saw I think I saw it in the plan. >> Yes. Yes, it's in there. So, so whether or not the as part of this whether or
not it's still relevant or um continue to be >> is that Reading Road. Is that what you're talking about? Or is that something different? >> It's a connection road. It's a like a paper street that runs from the back of the shops out to Vor's Corner next to the vet clinic.
>> Yeah, the vet clinic has the has the you could see it if you if you look through it. It kind it leads. >> There's a stub kind of. >> It's a stub that goes to the woods, but it's meant to then connect internally at the Flemington Veterinary Hospital. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> I know exactly what you're talking about. >> Yeah. And we have an application now
before board of adjust. >> Yes. Board of >> Yeah. That has that part of that. the township would. So, so the applicant would grant an easement to the township and then the township would then uh if needed construct the the road and the infrastructure to then u have the have
our road the master plan road. >> Who wants that? >> It was put in the master plan years ago. >> Yeah. I believe the 2008 master plan. >> Yeah. Yeah. And it was most likely because the circle wasn't uh improved and it's it was to alleviate traffic
from going on 202 um and going from the from the from the uh shops of Flemington internally through throughout the four or five properties. >> So it could potentially if you were on 202 and wanted to go home, you could take this bypass road and come out at
the vet on Bor's Corner and bypass >> that's a circle and two lights. Well, it's already a paper street with them. Yeah. I mean, it's already they gave up the land already. It was owned for the road. I >> It also um promotes promotes
interconnectivity like shared trips. So, if you're at the shops >> and this where would this connect on Reville where >> it would go from the shops of Funington >> from the shops >> and then internally um to Vorhees. >> Yeah. You know how when you're coming
out of the shops to get to 202, there's that stop sign and you're sitting there and there's a little stop. Shopping center in this town seems to be really messed up. >> A proposed car dealers. >> Yeah. And I was wondering about that, right? Because the car dealership's
going to come back there. Is that >> And then there was a proposed What was the other location? >> The other lot next to it. The first one you would go through the one that we don't have a current application for >> the one that there was storage capacity issues with >> it was warehouse
>> warehouse. Okay. >> So would that road >> you got to develop those? >> Yeah. So it would be the the applicant would be required to present um a designated access or easement for the
for the road. And there's no exact dimension. There's not exa exact location that the town has provided. It's just an old kind of concept. So it's it's it's peacemeal throughout the each application. Um
originally when the bypass was going through that road when it came out there was going to cut the corner where the self- storage place is and go out to 202. So, you wouldn't have been able to go right from 202.
>> Since we're talking about this, someone's got to fix that light at 202 Church because that timing is off. It's backed up. So, people are going to come to that road and make a left. They're going to be stuck. It's going to be a nightmare. >> It's gotten worse. It's got way
>> that intersection again. >> It's Vory's Corner 202 on the other side of the street is Church Road. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I mean, Jay, they all keep saying >> this intersection. >> Yeah. famous state knows that this is a state road, right? And I understand I thought we had multiple applicants that
were supposed to petition to get the timing fixed. >> I already heard the timing supposed to be Well, the state recognizes, but it's just not fixed. >> Can't you just climb up on a poll and fix it? I can look into that. >> Because I thought self storage and would both
were on the hook to get that timing issue fixed. >> Is this a school warning issue mostly that we're talking about? >> No. I've been there and I've had to wait three lights to get through that intersection. >> Wow. >> At what time? >> Gosh, it could be maybe school. Is there
>> going to the environmental commission meeting the other night at 107? I had to wait through too late. >> That's getting to make you left. I >> I can tell you you're starting with a very inefficient tightening plan there because they have to split the side street
>> and as soon as you start splitting out phases, there's not as much to go around. In other words, >> they serve church, stop it, serve vorhees, stop it, serve the left turn lanes on 202, stop it, serve 202 mainline.
>> So with all those mouths to feed. >> Yeah, >> that that's where you're not timing right because if I come by Wawa, get that green light and I travel just the right speed, I can get the green light at 4 each corner. Got to time it right.
>> Got to know your intersection. Yeah. >> Luck on two. >> All right. So, what are we doing with this? >> I mean, you're going to make a truck ride on Dory Delt Road. >> Bob's house. >> My house is not on the market.
>> So, but does that road stay in? Is it still a goal of this township to have that >> or or partial of it? >> Is it Jay? Isn't it that even if they go all the way to Vorhees, the county would have to review and approve? >> Yeah, that's a potential issue creating
that new intersection of Vorhees so close to 202. >> And the other thing I had heard, this isn't my area of expertise, but uh the environmental permitting to build through that area these days.
>> Oh, that's a good answer. I like that. Oh, >> good luck. I like that. Gotcha. Right. >> How much of a hurdle that is to even >> again I ask who as who is asking for this?
>> Again I think it was asked for back way back when and it's in our plan. So we have to decide if things stay or go. >> Okay. I want to be part of that discussion. >> Well that's that's what this is. Well >> then it goes. >> Yeah. >> Any conversation?
>> Yeah. Um, >> I I think there are reasons you could take that position. >> And even if we were to do it, how many people would really actually use that street? Probably not enough to justify the cost.
And when there are applications going in front of the board of adjustment, uses aren't as they weren't the same as when the when the road was potentially going to be um >> Yeah, originally it was going to be shut. It was going to be retail and it was going to be shopping centers. So
>> again, is somebody who somebody adjustment for this? What's retail >> for the >> So for the road? >> No, no. The road was art was discussed. >> Nobody buys anything >> as part of the 2008 master plan that was that was um confirmed and it was being
promoted as as part of >> did. Yeah. >> Yeah. So that >> times change, right? We can change with it. >> Yeah. It can be removed. It can be that's the idea for these reviews, right? I'm glad we're having this conversation >> because um I'm surpris the applicant was actually going to potentially uh submit
a letter to the planning board requesting that it be removed. Um I'm surprised they haven't uh submitted that letter, but this is an appropriate time to to have this discussion. >> I I I'm challenged to see a good planning rationale for it. If that had
gone to grocery store, smaller retail center kind of like across the road at Planet City. >> None of that. >> But yeah, but if if it had then I could see be having local trips. Problem like Jay just said is once they get to
Vorhees Corner Road, we already have problems with people turning into Reading Ridge not queuing up properly, >> right? >> And accidents there. Although I'm surprised nothing should well just would be just not it would be just accidents. >> That's how many people just coming
across 202 that are in the right lane and turn left >> at 202 last minute. Yeah, >> it's nuts. Or they're going up the road and the the arrow says right turn, right turn and they wait till the very end and they cut it. >> They dive in. So, and just think then you'd have another intersection coming
in there. >> Bad bad news. >> Yeah, I'm just imagining that. Yeah, I >> it's already a >> Yeah, >> you know what? >> I'm ready to roll >> because you would also draw from
Vorhees. You draw left turns into that get down to the shops. You'd be pulling left turns out trying to get on to Vis. >> Yeah. Changed. >> Yeah. So, you know, so I think there's general consensus that >> uh
>> that connector road should be removed. >> Yeah, I agree. >> I would too >> close to the existing intersection. >> I mean, that's that's to me the biggest thing from a traffic safety, the change of intensity of use and some of the change of zoning,
you know, >> and you know, we didn't have business zoning in that whole district across the street back then. It was still residential house. So yeah. So >> it would be more environmentally
sensitive too not to have that road going through there, right? >> Mhm. >> So okay >> access would be from Flemington shops is it's unclear as to what those properties would be. uh one of which is in Flemington and the others there's two in Ren but
>> having that option I don't know if NJ dot would there's no >> there's no potential plans but I don't know as far as access from 202 and having that from Flemington shops but as far as the other side yeah I would agree there's no no need
>> yeah yeah if they want to come in from the other end to access their shops >> or warehouse go talk to Flemington Go check out their master flint. >> They can just go slip my hat. What are you talking about?
>> Okay. People are comfortable with that. I don't think at this point we don't need you stall. You have the consensus of the board. >> The bypass is ready ro. >> Yeah. I know it goes for but that's what you do. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Consensus. So that will
be removed. I still need an efficient way to get my wanton soup in my my gyros >> without recording that. >> Anything else? At this point, >> I think I cut the notes out. >> Okay. So, next step she'll come up with an updated version at some point.
>> Yep. I'll refine um and I'll coordinate with with Jeff about uh timing and stuff, but uh yeah, I'll refine the recommendations, circulate them again, and then uh >> feel like at that point they'll they'll be more specific and there's a lot of guidance to work off. So, thank you guys. >> Okay,
>> efficiency and optimization. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Well, nice job. We put a lot of a lot of information. >> Thanks for putting up with all our >> questions. No, thank you guys. It's nice an engaged board. It makes it a lot a lot easier to >> and Robin wasn't here. Robin was here.
>> I got most of her points across tonight. >> Okay. >> We chatted. >> All right. Next thing on the agenda is just a reminder that we have upcoming hearings on. So, what do we got?
>> June 10th is scheduled for June 10th, 18 US Highway 202. Not what I just gave you tonight. That's 14. >> Oh, I was going to say this is like the fourth packet of this. >> No, no, no, no, no. These are revised materials. So, anything previous toss
>> because that that application they're proposing three buildings >> again. >> They were proposing three self storage buildings. The revised plans show one. >> There's one. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. >> So, please take a look. >> They went up two floors, right? And if you want to
>> That's all the technical aspects I can give you, Bob. >> Three buildings to one. That's it. So, and then the 18 highway, that's the old old York, correct? >> Correct. This is the furniture store. Okay. >> When is when is the 10th? What's on the tent again?
>> Old the old old York furniture store. >> That's where I'm >> as well as capital reviews for the Central High School. >> Are we going to put them on first on the agenda? I think that would be best just cuz you know you guys can ask and
questions and make some comments but it's basically just a presentation from them >> and you have time right >> squeeze that in. >> I don't know how to write that. I have no further comments. >> Okay. >> Is that when they were continued to
>> Okay. There's not enough space to put that on this agenda. I like to keep it at two pages. >> Fair enough. >> All right. All right. Can I have a motion to adjurnn? So moved. >> All in favor? I I >> I. All right. Thanks, guys.