WEBVTT

METADATA
Video-Count: 1
Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=aF49QSS5XbM

NOTE
MEETING SECTIONS:

Part 1 (Video ID: aF49QSS5XbM):
- 00:00:00: Meeting Commences; Roll Call; Pledge of Allegiance
- 00:01:40: Skipping Agenda Items; Public Hearing Introduction: Walmart Expansion
- 00:02:14: Walmart Attorney Introduces Project; Addressing Notice Issues
- 00:05:11: Jurisdiction Approval; Bifurcation of Seasonal Sales Area
- 00:07:22: Project Background: Site Details and Prior Approvals
- 00:09:16: Current Application: Expanding Online Pickup, Minor Variances
- 00:10:04: Online Pickup/Delivery Service Explanation, Building Separations
- 00:12:20: Parking Space Signage and Bulk Variance Requests Explained
- 00:15:17: Diminimus Variance Claimed; Swearing In Witnesses
- 00:16:52: Overview of Existing Conditions and Proposed Improvements
- 00:17:46: Aerial Exhibit (A1) Describing Existing Site and Uses
- 00:20:51: Site Layout Exhibit (A2) Showing Proposed Site Changes
- 00:24:25: Question Regarding Northeast Concrete Hatch; Sidewalk?
- 00:25:52: Signage Plan Exhibit (A3) Directional & Location Discussion
- 00:27:45: Directional Signs; Route 31 Entrance and Lowe's Confusion
- 00:29:55: Perimeter Routing; Promoting Storefront Area Avoidance
- 00:31:18: Location Signage Needed; PetSmart and Longhorns?
- 00:32:22: Applicant Willing to Amend Signage Near Route 31
- 00:34:25: Food Pantry Queue Consideration and Traffic Routing Problems
- 00:37:14: Temporary Signage Needed to Separate Pantry Traffic
- 00:38:52: Add Logo; Slide Second Sign Past the Drive Aisle
- 00:40:34: Is the Current Design Maxed out On Sign Size?
- 00:42:29: Signage Flexibility; Can Add The Logo To Prevent Problems
- 00:43:10: Details of Banner Signs and Call-In Stall Signage
- 00:46:10: Begin Addressing Engineer Report, Circulation Changes
- 00:48:35: Directional Sign Location Relative to Stop Sign Location
- 00:49:24: Remove Comment 14; Other Condition Agreements Detailed
- 00:51:25: EV Charging Spots; Preference is to flip to the Other Side
- 00:53:29: Changing the Model; Which Particular Space Do You Pull Into?
- 00:54:52: Those Charging Spaces; Just Moving Further West, but Near?
- 00:57:57: Sign; We Move Them Further; What Spaces is Comfortable?
- 01:00:20: Light Pole is Actually an Exposed Foundation Right Now
- 01:00:55: Light Fixtures are the Same and No Increase in Impervious
- 01:01:37: Verify The Catch Basins are Functioning Well & in Good Condition
- 01:02:08: Just Want to Televise; See About Catch Base Pipe Conditions
- 01:02:46: Construction Detail Requests, Clarification or Update
- 01:03:24: Planner's Report; Variance Relief and Banner Questions
- 01:04:48: Documenting Prior Approval of OPD; Directional Clarifications
- 01:06:32: Signage Package Must Match Board Approval; Required Parking?
- 01:08:13: Seasonal Sales Bifurcated; Storage Item; Lowe's Material
- 01:10:37: Environmental Commission; Traffic Impact & Lighting
- 01:12:03: Traffic Review; Focus on Operational Hours & Traffic Flow
- 01:13:11: Landscape Review; Plants That Died or Diseased Replace
- 01:15:31: Positive and Negative Criteria and for Relief, if Any
- 01:16:05: Introducing Architect; Educational and Professional Credentials
- 01:16:57: Architectural Upgrades; Branding, New Entrance Door and Canopy
- 01:18:03: Elevations in Larger Scale Exhibit; Plan Description Continues
- 01:19:16: Wall Signage Plans, Review and Reduction of Signage
- 01:21:47: Pylon Sign Resurfacing; Questions for Architect Begin
- 01:22:56: Site Plan Showing Pickup Location Needs Correction
- 01:24:24: Whats the Old OPD area to be Used; Storage/Backup
- 01:25:17: Calling Professional Planner for Testimony on Relief
- 01:25:50: Planner Provides Background and Testifies to Variances
- 01:27:11: Planner Describes Site, Purpose, and Zone District
- 01:28:33: Third Type of Variance; Building Quantity and Justification
- 01:29:53: Operational Efficiencies and Project Benefits Explained
- 01:31:14: Waiver Testifying; Higher Illumination and the Safety
- 01:32:05: Distances Involve are my Professional Opinion and Standard
- 01:32:18: Planner Satisfied with Testimony Regarding Safety Issues
- 01:32:32: Motion To Approve With; List of Items Agreed Upon Detailed
- 01:34:21: Walmart To Add Logo; Move Wayfinding Signage; Banners 2x5
- 01:35:08: Amending Site Plan To Remove Left Side Top; Pickups Items
- 01:35:24: Discussion and Approval; Date for Bifurcation Scheduling
- 01:36:12: Reminder the Two of You Need to pick Another Date for Items
- 01:37:18: Seasonal Discussion; Fire Safety; Adjacency of Fire Area
- 01:38:24: Meeting Adjourned; Next Meeting and Storage Discussion


Part: 1

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Sorry. Is that >> okay? >> Thank you, Taylor. >> Started to think it was meant to consciously. >> Good evening. The Raron Township Planning Board is now in session. Call to order. The notice requirements of the Open Public Meetings Act have been satisfied by the placing of a notice of

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this meeting on the bulletin board at the municipal building, filing the notice with the township clerk, and transmitting the notice to the Courier News in the Trenton Times. We have a roll call, please. >> Chairman, Mr. Edward Getting >> here. Vice Chair Miss Donna Drew via

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Zoom, >> Miss Robin Fatu >> here, >> Mr. Bob King >> here, >> Miss Michelle Capakiri >> here, >> Mr. Dennis Conan >> here, >> Mr. James Miller >> here, >> and >> Mr. Joseph Lane, he has asked to be excused. War professionals board

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attorney Mr. Joe Toriello >> here. >> Township planner Mr. Jeffrey Beckerella >> here. >> We have Mr. Ryan McCarthy on behalf of township engineer Mr. Aesh Dargy >> here. Who louder is that? >> Here, >> taupe landscape architect Mr. John

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Morton Thomas >> here >> and traffic consultant Mr. Jay Troutman >> here. Okay. >> Thank you, Taylor. I'd like to invite everyone to please stand for the pledge of allegiance and a moment of silence for the men and women in our own services.

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I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you everyone.

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This being a special meeting tonight, we're going to just run right past the next few items on the agenda. That being comments and reports, correspondence, minutes, and resolutions. If we do have someone from the public here this evening for citizens privilege, and you want to address the planning board on

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anything other than what's next on the agenda, which is the public hearing, now would be the time to do so. And please come up to the microphone. Okay, there being nobody, we're going to move right on to public hearing. Walmart real estate business trust. This is preliminary and fight final site plan

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with bulk variances. >> Good evening. >> Good evening. >> My name is Tom Latizia. That's L T I A. I'm an attorney with the law firm of Trotman Pepper Lock in Princeton and

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I'm here representing Walmart Real Estate Business Trust, the applicant and tenant of the property which is the subject of tonight's hearing. We have provided the required legal notice of of this hearing by certified mail to the

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property owners within 200 feet and by publishing uh in the uh news and I would like to uh thank the board for holding this special meeting uh for us uh at our request. Uh there were two uh notice

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related issues that uh came to our attention last week. Uh the first pertain to the owner of 12 Minang Road which is Aston DPA2 LLC. It turns out they did not receive the mailed notice

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and we immediately um discussed this with Mr. Oriel and at his direction we served the owner with the required notice and obtained a signed certification uh from the entity. Uh the

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representative was Peter Sudek. He confirmed receipt as well as the waiver of the 10-day notice requirement and his certification has been uh uh submitted. Uh the second issue uh that we were

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informed of by uh Miss is that the notice for Flemington Office center LLC uh the owner of 6B Minana Road was addressed to 68 Minana Road

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instead of the correct property address. And however, despite this addressing error, the owner confirmed that they received the notice and signed the uh green certified uh mail receipt. So, we we obtained a signed certification from

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an authorized representative, Dr. Paul Phillips, who confirmed that they did in fact receive uh our notice and sign for it. and it his certification was also provided uh to uh Miss Long.

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Uh we believe all the other uh notice materials are in order and we have submitted the uh confirming affidavit. So subject to Mr. uh's uh opinion, we believe this board does have jurisdiction uh to proceed this evening.

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>> Thank you, councel. uh based upon us working through the issue that you've identified, I I will agree that the board has jurisdiction for this application with one caveat uh that I don't think the entire board has been

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apprised, but we had some conversations earlier today about some of the relief that's being sought specifically the conditional use regarding seasonal sales areas. and we had a conversation specifically about ordinance 296-151

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subsection U. And uh as we discussed, in order for this board to have juris uh jurisdiction over that portion of the application, the applicant must satisfy the five criterium in that resolution.

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And as we discussed, the applicant has not satisfied section 4, which leaves the applicant with two options. Either to bifurcate, remove that portion of the relief and come back another day or to

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go which which the applicant has agreed that bifurcation makes sense. And then additionally, as I've discussed with council under 4055D-51 subp paragraph C specifically holds that whenever approval of a conditional use

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is requested by the developer pursuant to the subsection, notice of the hearing on the plat shall include reference to the request for such conditional use. So we've also agreed that notice with respect to that relief is deficient. So

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you will have to renotice with respect to that. So at the appropriate time I would just suggest that uh the applicant can confer with the board secretary as to when we can have a second hearing

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with respect to the seasonal sales area and then once that date is identified you can go ahead and renotice for that date. But other than that, yes, the board has jurisdiction and you can proceed with your application on that

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understanding that yes, the seasonal sales is bifurcated. >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. So, just a little bit of background for the board. The the subject property is identified as lot 35 in block 16001

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on the uh township tax map. The address of the property is 152 New Jersey Route 31. And the property uh which is a shopping center as you well know contains an existing Walmart and is located within

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the plain commercial service district. The uh PCOS district permits retail and retail service uses pursuant to section 296-118 C1 of uh your land development

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ordinance. In 2005, uh the board granted preliminary site plan develop a mixeduse commercial project on this lot as well as adjacent uh lots which included approval to uh develop the Walmart store and a garden center uh which exists

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today. The uh preliminary approval was thereafter amended with additional variance of relief for signage in 2006 and final site plan approval was granted on October 10th, 2006.

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In 2019, uh Walmart received minor site plan approval from the board to construct a building addition uh for their online pickup and delivery program. And this this current application relates to the online picked

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up and delivery uh operation which uh we call the OPD uh program. So, we're seeking a plary and final major site plan together with some minor C variance uh relief to convert an

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existing portion of the uh store parking lot to create a total 39 designated OPD parking stalls uh to facilitate the online pickup and delivery service.

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There are currently 13 existing online uh pickup parking stalls. So, we're just expanding uh the number of online uh parking spaces. The application also proposes

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directional signage and some building upgrades, namely a new employee door, a canopy for the OPD operation, uh new wall signage, and some uh new exterior uh paint in order to uh refresh

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the uh the facade of the store. And just uh some background on the online pickup delivery service. Uh this business has grown significantly uh since the uh COVID

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uh pandemic in 2020. Customers uh view the online pickup service as a major convenience particularly for those wishing to remain in their vehicles rather than shop in the store. and it is

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an amenity that Walmart customers demand and as a result Walmart is proposing OPD upgrades to basically all all its stores uh around the country. So the buildings are intended to

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separate the online pickup and delivery area from the main brick and mortar store entrance which provides benefits from a circulation and parking perspective. Uh the goal is to have a safe and efficient uh online pickup delivery

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operation. There will be no changes in the shifts worked by Walmart and Associates nor in the store hours. Uh uh all the the hours will remain the same. So the site improvements which we will

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discuss with you uh this evening involve uh as I mentioned uh expansion of the online pickup parking spaces from 13 uh to 39. Uh the overall uh center parking

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is required to be at 1980 parking spaces. Uh today there is currently 2,26 parking spaces and with uh this uh application there will be a reduction of 13 spaces

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to 2013. So there is plenty of parking uh on the site and uh no variance relief is is necessary. In addition, at each of these 39 parking spaces, there will be some um signage

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uh marking uh their the spots. This will contain um information uh on a parking space as well as a number to for a customer to call when they arrive. There will also be uh two permanent banner signs mounted on two existing uh light

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poles. These will these banners will say pick up. And then as I mentioned, directional signage uh is proposed to uh provide wayfinding messaging uh throughout the parking lot uh to direct

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customers uh to the uh pickup area. There is some variance relief and I'll just briefly go over uh that portion of the application. So uh this finance relief is being sought under NJSA 4055D-

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uh 70 uh 2 commonly known as the uh bulk variant section of the municipal uh language law and the majority of this relief uh relates to the to signage. Uh the

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signage that I mentioned at the uh the head of the parking stalls, there was one sign that is going to be uh 4 1/2 square ft. Uh your ordinance requires a maximum of three square feet. So we leave a variance for that pickup sign.

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And then I mentioned the banner signs. Your ordinance actually prohibits permanent banner signs. Uh so we're asking for a variance to allow uh two 10 square foot that is five five feet in height by 2 feet in width pickup banner

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signs on two existing uh poles. And we also are seeking a uh variance for the number of uh wall signs uh per your ordinance section 296-163D2 one wall signs permitted

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uh per tenant. Uh Walmart as I mentioned uh previously received uh some signage variance approvals. At the time that was for six wall signs. Uh today there are eight uh signs on the building. uh with this application uh all eight

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are being uh replaced with new signage. >> However, the overall square footage of the new signage will be uh is going to be reduced uh from the existing square footage and we'll go over that uh with the board. Uh the final uh relief is a

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design waiver and that uh is for lighting and we're seeking the waiver from section 296-75G2C to allow the average to minimum illumination ratio um of uh to allow a greater ratio of 7

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to 4.1 instead of 4:1 maximum required by your ordinance. In our opinion, these variances are dimminimous and we're going to provide testimony uh to support them. >> So, unless you have questions for me, we

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can begin our uh presentation. >> Yes, council, if I could ask you to um call up all of the witnesses that you plan on testifying. I'm going to swear all of your witnesses in with the board professional. >> We have uh I have three witnesses. >> Okay.

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>> You gentlemen would step forward. If everybody could raise your right hand, do you swear or affirm that testimony that give in this hearing is the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth? >> Hopefully. Starting with you, sir. If you could state your name, spell it for the record and then go right across. You

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guys don't have to spell it. Kyle McKenna. Ka. >> You're the engineer. Yes, sir. Okay, Marco Necultis, board landscape architect. >> Jeff Bear, Township Planner. >> Ryan McCarthy, board engineers office.

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Thank you. So I call Mr. Kyle McKenna. >> Just of note, Mr. McKenna has testified before this board before. Yes. So he's and obviously was accepted. >> Appreciate that. Thank you, Mr. Chair. We still have the exhibits. Yeah. So let's start. I'm going to just do a

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brief overview of the existing conditions of the site for for the record. Uh briefly describe the proposed improvements lay the land and the intent of what we're doing to improve the site and then we can jump into the last point.

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>> So we did bring reduced size copies of all the exhibits as well. So everyone can have a copy. We should mark them. Uh I'm sorry. What's that? Okay. You already have Mark. We should mark them as part. So how many

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how many are there? I think it's a total of eight. Eight exhibits. >> So we'll we'll do they're all So what are you going to start with first? >> I have three. >> Yeah. Three. Okay, we'll do A1 through

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three. Okay, so let let's say what is what is A1? So A1 is an aerial exhibit dated May 6, 2026. It's just a aerial exhibit depicting the site and surrounding areas.

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Yeah. Right. So, for everyone's reference, the site, which was previously described in the introduction, is outlined in yellow on this um exhibit. Uh the Walmart building, which will be the subject of this application, is located to the east

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end of the shopping center with the existing Lowe's to the west. Um the site is bordered to the north by some adjacent commercial uses with many road uh beyond um to the west by NJ

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route state route 31 to the south by Walter Corin Boulevard and to the east by Sportsfield with um some undeveloped areas beyond it's a the site's an existing Walmart um as was previously mentioned there is a

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existing um OPD D online pickup and delivery service located just near the northwest corner of the Walmart building. So that area of the site is it's kind of the more quiet area of the site. Lower lower demand for parking in

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that area. Um which is why the OPD is located over there. And what we're proposing to do as part of this application is um relocate the OPD spaces from the northwest corner of the Walmart building a little bit further to the east um and just across the the

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existing drive there. So there's going to be an increase from 13 uh OPD spaces to 39 OPD spaces. The net there's going to be a net reduction in the overall parking by 13 spaces as was previously mentioned. Um, that's really the result

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of the size of the OPD spaces. So, they're 12 feet wide center to center on the spaces just to provide a little more room for folks to pull up for the um Walmart uh uh employees to bring out the the goods, make the delivery. Those

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spaces also will serve and currently today serve and will continue to serve uh Walmart van delivery as well. So, um, I'm going to introduce my next exhibit, which will just highlight the changes, the location of the OPD, and some of the other improvements that we're making on site to facilitate those improvements.

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Unless there's any questions on existing conditions. Yeah. So, I'm going to introduce exhibit A2 which is titled site layout exhibit again dated May 6th, 2026. same orientation with north to the top of the page as exhibit A1.

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What we're looking at um on exhibit A2 bottom bottom left hand side of the exhibit, you'll see the overall Walmart Super Center area and then there's an inset on the top of exhibit A2 which shows the area of where the majority of the improvements are proposed where that

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OPD improvement is going to take place. So as previously noted 13 to 39 spaces just in response to the increased demand and utilization of the online pickup and delivery. the the the 39 spaces are located um

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both adjacent to the building just on the north edge of the uh north side of the building and then directly across um there's an additional uh uh OPD spaces um extending in that dark hatched gray

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area on exhibit A2. the existing 13 OPD spaces located further to the west, they're just going to be converted back into normal spaces, normal parking spaces, uh 9 by8. In addition to that, there's going to be

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there's a total of um I believe four uh park corrals within that area of the site just to the north of the building. Three of those are going to be relocated elsewhere on site. Um so same no increasing park corral, just relocation.

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um and uh which will result in a a decrease in other areas of the site but makes room for the OPD improvement. Uh we're also proposing a total of two light fixtures. One is going to be mounted on an existing pole

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and the other will be a new pole just a little bit further to the basically right in the middle of the um proposed OPD area. The lighting improvements which I can get into when we review the technical comments. The really the purpose of that is to provide a little bit more light in that area because

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you're going to have more customer um employee interaction. You know, folks walking around making deliveries. Just want to have that area a little bit more lit than what's existing today. Um in addition, the other improvement, there's two um EV spaces proposed right on the

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eastern end of this row of OPD along the building. Uh the purpose of those is really just to uh charge the Walmart vans um that are used in the delivery. So it's a place where you could have um the option to charge vans as needed as

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part of the OP operation. >> So not for public use. >> They're not going to be restricted, but it wouldn't really make sense. Yeah. Not really intended for public use. Yeah. They're going to be what we call a level two charger. So, it's uh not not like a rapid charger like you would see at over

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at Chopra or Wawa places like that. I'm just going to introduce my last uh this is actually >> before you can move on. I'm sorry. >> I need to turn. >> Sorry, my apologies. Uh the light gray area to the northeast with stripes. What

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is that intended for? I see right near the stop. You see where the driveway? It looks like that's parking, but I don't recall parking me being there. >> Are you referring to Let me highlight here the area just to the >> that light gray right below that >> right here. >> Yeah, right there.

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>> Yeah. What is that? >> That's actually That's sidewalk. That's existing sidewalk. >> Okay. >> Um so that's the that's the color that's supposed to indicate concrete. >> Oh, thank you. >> Concrete sidewalk. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Walmart and note this already.

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>> I I do, but I don't recall parking. That's where the Make sure you walk. >> Yeah, thank you. No problem. >> Yeah, there is there is some proposed the other um concrete hatch. It's a little bit darker. There is some proposed concrete work because we're

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going to be adding in um the new OPD door near that northeastern corner of the building as well. So, you'll notice that hatch is a little bit different. It's not the lavender color. It's uh a little bit dark, more maybe more concrete colored. So that area is where we're going to be doing a little bit of work, put a new ramp in just to

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facilitate that new OPD door. >> Can you point again to the EV? >> Yes. So there's the uh two on the plan. It says proposed pedestal mounted uh EV charger. So there's two pieces in that

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>> one. Yep. If there's no further questions on this one, I'll move on to A3, which is basically just the signage plan just to give a quick lay of the land on what the signage is, what signage is being proposed for the site. Introducing exhibit A3. This is pickup

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striping signage exhibit. So, what you'll see here is the blue the blue rectangles around this um exhibit indicate location of the pickup directional signs on the perimeter. I'll start with those. So, the whole purpose of the directional signs is really to

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bring folks in to the site as safely and efficiently as possible, but try to direct them around the perimeter like to the OPD area to avoid conflict in that storefront area. So, we want to really separate boats that are accessing the site going into the storefront area from

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the OPD traffic. So, what we do is we're proposing if you're coming in off of Route 31, you would be directed along that northern perimeter of the site directly to the OPD spaces. If you're coming in off Mining Road, you would access the site near that northeast

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corner and be directed again around the northern perimeter of the site to the OPG spaces. And if you're coming in off of Walter Forum Boulevard, you would access the site in a um kind of a counterclockwise direction and be directed via signage along the perimeter

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of the parking area and around to the OPD spaces. So there's a total of 11 pickup um sign directional signs which again are compliant with the uh three square foot requirement. And they're basically they look essentially the same. One's straight ahead, one's left,

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one's right. Um, but that's really the intent of those those those directional sites. >> Do they reference Walmart at all? Because the one coming on 31, you're actually entering Lowe's. So, it could be confusing. >> They do not. They're just um the

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standard blue. >> Okay. >> Blue colored uh >> So, this is how they look. The the mockup >> every site, every Walmart site, they're generally the same. Yes, they will be as the sites are upgraded. >> So, coming in there often, I'd be following pickup. I guess I'm assuming I'm on my way to Walmart pickup and know

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that that's Walmart even though Lowe's is in front of me. I'm just thinking operationally it feels confusing >> if I'm going to Lowe's for a pickup like just for consideration. >> Sure. Yeah. So the way that it works is that it you you are placing the order

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online. So um you would be going to Walmart with some level of you know knowledge or sophistication of of that you have an order placed there. Um, so I can definitely appreciate that feedback. I'm not sure that the ordinance permits um that we typically don't put the logos on the directional signs because it's

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typically not conforming with ordinances. Um, but >> yeah, this is logo. >> It's fine to have a logo. It's not ordinance. >> Either that or they have the full stop they need. >> Yeah, that's their logo. Or or maybe you

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don't need one there anyway. I mean, I'm going to Walmart. I know where Walmart is. When I get closer to Walmart, the directional signs help me as opposed to right at the entrance when it really is more. >> Anyway, consideration, >> especially with it being very similar

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color and everything to the other. >> Yeah. One's bright blue like again I'm thinking about consumer confusion >> and I'm not worried about people coming for Walmart. I'm worried about people for coming for a Lowe's pickup that are like, "Oh, it's just Paul is doing anything." They go wrong.

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>> Well, what? >> Yeah, Michelle, turn that microphone on. >> Sorry. >> I I am curious uh if you've done this at other locations where you route them around the perimeter. I am very familiar with Walmart and I just know I'm just

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likely to cut through the front right next to the building. >> Yeah. >> I'm just curious. >> Yeah. So, so this is the way that all the the Walmarts are being changed again to try and promote folks to travel around the perimeter or at least away from that storefront area. Just trying to mitigate the the overlap between that

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we don't again we can't really restrict or stop people as they become familiar with the site, but it's really just to try and promote and do what we can to encourage folks to travel. >> I applaud the effort. I think that's the smart thing to do because it does get a lot of foot traffic in that front of that building.

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>> Yeah. I guess the two leading from 31, the first one says left and the next one says straight. I I just my opinion. I don't know that they're necessary. >> Yeah, I agree. >> I agree. >> Yes. So, I we do typically provide

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provide these at all the access points when when feasible just to just to again direct direct people to let them know where the pickup are. Um, yeah, we could definitely take it into consideration as to adding some a logo or some kind of delineator that's not loaded

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>> 31. >> Okay. Might need a bigger sign. >> Do you have a sign that's out by the PetSmart where there's an entrance there, too? Or the Longhorns? Because those are two other spots into this entire complex that >> also have entrances, but you don't have signs there. So, do we really need these

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two or I mean I when you get to the Walmart area totally understand having all these directional signs to tell people because people will go where they want otherwise. So hopefully this does help guide them the right way. I just

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don't want to >> run into problems with people wandering >> to the wrong one because they're just following a random sign that says pickup and not >> right >> PetSmart pickup or whatever. You make you make a good point because Longhorns is there where the Pets Smart is. That's

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also an access point on 31, >> right? >> So, you know, you either have a lot of signage everywhere and believe me, I wouldn't have designed the way those lots go around in circles and circles, but anyway, um you'd have like 30,000 signs. So, I guess I'm just suggesting that maybe for simplicity and elegance,

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you keep the signage for direction within proximity of the Walmart site as best as possible. Um because I could argue then if you want them at that entry point at 31, you would need them then at the other entry point. You know, I just kept kind of signing crazy. >> So, it sounds like the board is asking

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if the applicant would be willing to amend the the uh the signage plan to eliminate those those two signs by 31. >> Definitely would keep the ones that are from the entrances coming into the Walmart

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>> area. It was >> from Minne. >> Yeah, that one. and Walter Fan. That one >> the two that >> these are quite necessary for me. >> We want them to keep these because they're into like a Walmart area. >> Yeah. >> For ones that are opposite Walmart.

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>> So just the just just these two are the ones that the board is asking you to remove. The ones I circled. >> Yep. >> Those two. We'll leave everything else the way you have.

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>> But if you're coming in from that direction, don't you need a sign tell you to go keep going straight? >> Well, you should have one that says Walmart. >> Yeah. Just for reference, as part of the Raron Town Square, there was a there is a signage plan signage on every it's all

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over the facility kind of directing where it's not traffic related or directional as far. Yeah, there are it it does say uh where certain facilities where Lowe's and Walmart is at at most of all the access. There was a complete and coordinated sign package just for

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them. >> So there are signs pointing you towards Walmart then and then the idea is once you get closer to Walmart, you're going to start seeing signs for pickup. >> Exactly. >> Okay. Definitely keep the entrance >> that would eliminate the need for specific pickup signs.

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>> Min. Yes. >> And Walter Fin. >> And because you're on the side of the building there may as well. >> Just just those two. >> Sir, please speak to your microphone. This one.

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>> Yeah. But being that everybody's placing these orders online, they know that they're going to Walmart to pick it up. You're be using the existing directional signs for the Walmart store already. So, you don't really need those signs. They're kind of duplicate.

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>> Those aren't the one those aren't the people we're concerned with. We're concerned about the people going to other stores going, "Oh, look, it says pickup." And going to the wrong thing. So, at least if they're all centered in the Walmart general area, >> like you do have entrances that go in right next to the building. So, I would

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definitely keep those. Okay. >> The one next to the corner of Lowe's, it's like kind of on the Lowe's side. >> I wouldn't have that one because >> someone going for Lowe's would just follow along the side of the building. I don't even know where their pickup is.

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>> Right next to right by the sign. >> Yeah, it's right. >> Okay. So that could get very com conflicting especially if their pickup is right where you're trying to put that sign. >> Are we Did we say we could do? >> Sorry. >> Yes, he did say we could do loops.

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>> I think Donna wants to say something. >> Yeah. Yeah. I I have kind of another question about the routing for the pickup. Um, directly adjacent to the eastern side of the property is the Flemington area food pantry

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has there and they queue up >> the active lane >> in that lane. So, I'm just wondering how have you thought about the logistics of >> the queuing up

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of the parking and the routing pattern? Have you observed that? >> I would I would still >> Well, I have too. I I know what you mean, Donna. >> Yeah. >> Um >> as you have that um L-shaped curve at the bottom of your the drive-in. Yeah,

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use your pointer there. >> If you go south where the bend is, cars are lined up all the way back there when the food pantry is open. So, I think Donna's point is you're directing traffic through that path, but they're going to get stuck behind a line that is

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people in the line for the food pantry. And I've done it before when I'm picking up my kid from the the cheerleading house that's also next to the food pantry. I thought I was waiting in line with other cheer parents to pick up their kids. I realized I was in the food line and then I moved out into the opposite direction to get around. And

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that may happen. People may think, "Oh my gosh, Walmart's going bananas today. Everybody's in line for pickup." But it's not. They haven't arrived at your pickup yet. They got stuck in the food line by accident. >> That is a point of consideration that I think Donna, you're trying to raise. >> Yeah.

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>> Yeah. That's that's just, you know, it it may need, you know, I I don't know if it >> lane is only two cars wide. >> Correct. And that's where, you know, I I know there's been times even when they

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have the food pantry has their big um >> the bowl when our s helps with traffic because there's such a problem. So >> yeah, >> I know they have people assisting with traffic on the for the empty bowl. I don't know. >> Yeah, that's what I meant. Yeah. Yeah.

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Yeah. So if they do that for regular occasions. >> No, they they don't. Yeah. So that's where it's just, you know, I I think it may need to be something in the um you know, it has to be dealt with at some point and it may need to be some

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temporary signage like a sign board out when it's I I don't know. I you know I like I said we we don't want people queuing up behind the food pantry people like Robin said thinking they're going to pick up you know or even if it even if one of

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the wayfinding signs says pickup sign you know left turn ahead or something so people know they're not in the actual line for pickup. >> I do I think you need logos on this. >> I was going to say if you want your little starburst on there before the

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pickup. I'm not a graphic designer, but something on your signs might actually be helpful as well since we allow for that. So that people are trying to find Walmart pickup, they they know that's where >> Yeah. We don't want them getting, you know, people going to Walmart. We don't want them getting stuck in the food pantry line.

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>> Yes. And yeah, it is going to cause a traffic jam because you do see cars unfortunately going around and the opposite direction and there's not much we can do about that. >> Okay. So, you're suggesting we add a uh spark or I guess that's

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>> whatever the star. >> You could I don't know what to call what's the proper term for the logo. >> Logo. >> Logo. >> Yeah. >> A logo. >> Oh, it doesn't have a name. Sorry. >> Yeah. And to remove those two. So, that that's the >> So, it's to remove those two that we've

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discussed and uh and to add your logo. >> You could also slide that second one past the drive aisle there. So it's past like the side of the Lowe's building instead of >> I agree. I think that makes more sense >> to bring it down further. So it's on the side of Lowe's rather than

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>> at the corner of Lowe's. >> We're at the corner of the Walmart building. I think that would help. >> Yeah. Here. >> So >> like here. >> We'll shift that a little bit. >> That one to the right. >> Shift it right to where the building starts. >> To the right. To the right.

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>> Move to the right. down the road >> to the east Walmart. >> Yeah. >> Y there you go. That would be a good spot for it if you kept it. It's closer to Walmart itself. >> Okay. So, now we're just eliminating one side >> and moving the other one.

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>> Okay. >> Does that work? >> Yes. And then and the logo, right? >> Or something to help with success. >> Separate between the food pantry and >> but who doesn't want their logo up? pictures. >> Yeah. More branding for you.

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>> Can we make that one? >> Um, I'm sure we can. I just don't know off hand if this would be a larger a larger size. >> What's that? >> I I would just need to check. I don't know if it would fit on there, but I mean I think that's a we certainly want

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to accommodate that. >> We have to go bigger. >> Are they maxed out on the sign size? Where are we at? >> 16 is what? 16 is the maximum for a directional sign. >> Okay. >> 3 to 16 is what the board can can review for directional signs.

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>> And what are these at? >> These are >> Do we have room to go or no? >> 18 by 24. >> This is a variance one, right? >> This is not this one. >> No, >> you have the banner one. >> Given that flexibility, we can certainly make that work.

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>> They're at three. >> Yeah, they're at the They're at regulation. Okay. And you >> I mean I think if you >> So we're saying like a couple inch, you know, 2 by two or 3x3 starburst and

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stuck it in the corner of the sign, that would probably be enough room without having to enlarge it. >> Yeah. So if you could give us a little flexibility. >> Absolutely. say four square feet or six square feet.

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>> Ju just for context, I think the last time the board approved directional signage, a lot of them, it was for S Starbucks Starbucks. >> Yeah. >> And they were I can't remember off the top of my head, but it wasn't it wasn't more than five. It was somewhere between three and five square feet. And they

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have logos within them. And it was all that plane. and we're at three now, but we've approved five in the past >> for Starbucks. >> Yes. >> For someone else. >> So, I would say >> if it's going to prevent a problem or solve a problem, I'm willing to be flexible on that, but I don't want to

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speak for anybody else. >> Donna, >> wait, she's muted. >> I'll get there. Directional signs not to exceed five square feet, including the logo. >> There we go. >> Sounds good to me. Okay. Okay. Five

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square feet. And thank you. >> Even bigger, Brandy. >> Okay. Thank you for the feedback. Um, so the other signs that we are proposing, again, same goal in mind, just to get folks to the area. Um there are two

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banner signs which are which are a variance that we are requesting which again I get into the details but I'd like to just locate those on the plan. So there's one on either side of the OPG parking area. So one just kind of to the east side and one to the west mounted to

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the light pole uh >> light poles um 2 by five so 10 square feet total. Uh they're mount so the light pole mounted height is 25 ft for the light fixture. Uh the top of the banner side would be 18 with the bottom

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at 13. So it' be between 13 and 18 um with a 25 foot tall light just for just for reference for the >> I've seen those before. They're fine. >> Mhm. >> The hospital uses those same type of suns. >> They look good, you know, once they're weathered, you know.

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>> And again, the goal is just so that as you're approaching, you can go kind of say, "Okay, there there it What was the size again? I got 13 by 18 10 by >> it's uh so two by five feet 10 square feet >> right 10 square feet high five feet high two feet wide and the bottom is now 13

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so 13 to 18 got it >> and there's two of them >> and there's two yes >> not five foot wide but that would not look good >> throw your little star in there too everyone know exactly what it is >> and that's going to be on the pole that you haven't installed yet >> one is existing and then one is for folks yet

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>> okay >> gotcha makes a tough time imagining But now I got >> I got there. >> You have arrived. >> All right. And then the last group of signs that I just again wanted for orientation um and this is on your

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exhibit is the actual um call-in sign, the stall desk stall designation sign. And um it's actually located to the right hand side of this exhibit. The logo sign large it's called on the exhibit. And actually, if you go out there today, it's the exact same sign

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that they use in the spaces. So, it's basically a blue sign. It has the call in or text in numbers to you arrive, you can call or text. It has the spot designation so you know what number to fall to that you're given. And then it just has a sign that that says pick up on that. And that's the one that we're requesting the variance for just due to

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the size of that um logo large. What is the size of that sun? >> So, that's four and a half. >> Four and a half square feet whereas three would be So where exactly is that? >> On the >> on the So that would be so there's three each stall will have three signs. It'll

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have the call number, the spot designation number, and then below that it will just say pickup >> and so actually if you um if you rotate that pickup sign that's on the exhibit, it's actually going to rotate 90 degrees. So >> Okay. Yeah, that vertical. >> Okay. Thank you.

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>> Just below the other two side. whole thing doesn't work unless you have a sign with the number on it. >> It certainly helps know which ways to pull up. Yeah. >> Yes. >> QR code or whatever >> something. >> Pick a spot. >> Let's Yeah. Let's address the report.

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Sure. Then we can run through the boards. Otherwise, we go there. Everything else is staying the same. Why don't we uh start with a ship engineers report and that's um

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the report from environmental re uh resolutions zinc dated April 28th 2026 and I think the first couple pages for summarizing the application

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and I think we can start um your general comments on page uh >> three >> start there >> which report that's >> yeah he does the same thing

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>> okay so yeah the first the first comment which is comment Number five is just discussing changes in circulation um and routing to the OPD. Again, there's really no change in circulation other than just relocating that OPD area a little bit to the uh to the east there.

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Um and access will be provided as I as I described, but we'd be happy to touch on that or describe further if there's any questions. Um hours will be the same as today. So, store hours are 6:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. with the OPD uh hours from 7

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a.m. to 10:00 p.m. That's consistent how it operates today. Uh the next actually two comments, six and seven are referencing some discrepancy between architectural plans um for Ballard location and concrete finishing and we've agreed to address

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that such that the architectural and site plans are consistent. Um, same same with number eight there. I think that's a similar comment. We would agree to address that. Um, for uh comment number nine, just to label clothes store on the plans. We'd

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be happy to do that. Uh, that's not an issue. Um, and comment number 10, just identifying route 31 on the specified sheet. Again, we can certainly address that. There there was a question about the location of the proposed directional

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sign relative to the existing stop sign locations. I'm going to go ahead and uh ignore the uh sign near that northwest corner. We've already discussed that >> but elsewhere on site there are there is the directional sign coming off of Walter Bora Boulevard which is in close

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proximity to the stop sign. So basically the way we show it on our plans is kind of behind and a little bit offset from the stop sign to try and avoid any sort of conflict visually with that. So similar mounting height, smaller sign than the stop sign, but again it'll be offset a little bit to the side. That's

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that's the way that it's intended to be shown. the existing pickup signs uh that are being removed. Just there was a comment to uh basically repair the asphalt um as those uh signs are removed and we'd be happy to do that as well.

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>> I just want to cut you off for 14. Uh I just want to respectfully remove 14. I I addressed it with Jay. So >> we're going to take 14 out of our letter, but 12 and 13 are conditions that are agreed to. >> Yes. >> And 11 has been addressed. >> Yes. >> Correct.

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>> Okay. Great. Appreciate that. Um there was for comments for 15. It was really just addressing references and notes which we would be uh no objection. We'll address that uh comment.

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Um and then yeah for the comment number 16 is just identifying that the online pick and delivery signs will be placed approximately a foot behind the curb. It just notes that there's a portion of sidewalk along that north side of the building that would be reduced to 4.1 ft

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location. Um we're comfortable with that uh reduction in space. It does provide enough room for a shopping cart or a delivery cart for the OPT to get by um two people to walk by. It's it's a relatively short distance so we're comfortable with that and do think it is sufficient.

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The two charging spaces. So um so yes, we can certainly uh there's a comment about providing either baller protection or clarifying the setback from the curb to provide protection from vehicle conflict with those chargers. Certainly can address that comment and we would

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agree to either provide ballards or locate it uh two feet behind the curb as as commented on. >> But which uh which is the preference and what should be in the resolution? Um, >> we would just say that they comply with ordinance number. The number is actually

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in the comment. 296 55. >> So that's the condition. >> Yep. Okay. Very good. >> Can I make a comment on the EV spaces real quick? I'm just thinking like I don't know you guys can might agree with me or not but having those closest to the entrance of

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the building like if you're not intending them for public use maybe you want to like flip it to the other side or something because I feel like people are going to try to park there. Let's All right. People aren't always thinking clearly. They'll park there thinking they're going to plug their car in and

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it's not done in >> Yeah. >> any timely manner. about >> I I I agree. >> I just think I would move it if you're not intending it for public, I would move it away from the main entrance door

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side of the banks. >> Um, okay. So, yeah, there are a couple of thoughts that that's the place was there. Um, again, for online pick and delivery book, you're parking a designated space and u the associates coming out to you. So there's really not

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much of a um improvement in efficiency or convenience depending on where you park because everything's being brought to you. You're not getting out of here. And then there are some also just construction preferences to keep it close to the building. So the it's being fed from the building um electrically. So the closer

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we keep it to the building, the better. >> Yeah. I wouldn't move it away from the building. I would move it down the building. >> Just going to move it west. Are those for Walmart only? There's no signage restricted for for only um but again

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Walmart does designate the space numbers as well as part of the pickup so they control where you're going to park. You're going to park in the space that they assign to you. So they do have a certain level of control but it gives them a little bit of flexibility. >> So you're not going to be assigning spaces one or two because you don't want

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the public using them >> who the Walmart van will be that's how the pickup works now. You pull into a space and then you tell them what space you're in. They don't assign you. >> I only get Walmart. >> Is it changing?

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>> No, that's what they said. >> What's the operational process is? What? You tell me which space or I show up and I pick one. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Which one? >> They designate a space. You pull up into that space and then text. >> Okay. So, I guess they're changing their model

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>> and today you just pull into any space or is the process still an assigned number >> or a pickup? >> Yes. No, there's 13 designated spaces. >> No, not not that. They're saying which particular space you pull into. Right now, I've just done a pickup recently.

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You pull in, you pick a you just pick an open space, >> you call the number, and you let them know what space you're in. >> Yeah. >> I mean, I'm not talking spaces out in the parking lot. I'm talking in that set of designated spaces. >> If I'm Yeah. If I'm in a Tesla and I pull up to space one and I call and I

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say, "Hey, I'm in space one." You don't want me there. You're saying it's not meant for public use. So that's confusing. >> And the other thing is somebody driving an electric car might think, "Oh, look, they put charger space." Because they'll see the chargers. They're not small. So they'll pull up and be like, "Oh, look. They put charger spaces near the front.

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>> It's designated for pickup. I mean, come >> blue paint. It's for my charger." >> Not I have public uh right >> TV chargers, >> right? But the people don't >> pay attention to that. Are you kidding? It's hard enough to get them to see a five square foot stop. Even if it's

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blink or one of the others, you know, they may just think, I'm going to be in there for half an hour. I'm going to charge my car. I'm swipe my blink and now I'm char >> that space is already restricted for pickup only. And if you're going to be there for five minutes, that would

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>> anything's possible. So, it certainly could happen, but it shouldn't it shouldn't really be a common occurrence because it's already designated for pickup only. So signing it further, I don't know that that would actually mitigate that that conflict. Um it's signed for pickup, they're going to be

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there for five five minutes or so approximately. It's typical turnover. So um they're not concerned with it operationally. Uh that that's just their preference as far as location. Those are always also the prime spots to park for the Donna that they're not.

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>> I was gonna say that's those are the two spots I always look for if I pull in the back like I like to. Um, could, you know, you said you don't prefer to do any additional signage other than the pickup one, but could it be, you know, maybe some clarification would help

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that, you know, if it's really not meant to be a public charging station, then, you know, maybe some additional signage clarifying that. >> We're moving down the building. >> You mentioned the Walmart bands is the intended use of the chargers. Was that

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correct? So when would they be charging? If these spaces are free for anyone to pull up and get their pickup order, are they charging there overnight? Is that the thought? >> The spaces are also used by Walmart delivery vans to make to make deliveries as part of the OPB.

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>> So maybe a sign that says not for public use or Walmart or employees only or something. >> A Walmart, whatever verbiage, but we're just saying we live and breathe your store. this Walmart, it will get taken

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up by people either using pickup or just going shopping or wanting to charge their car. And if you're okay with that, you're okay with that. But we're saying that's what will happen parking. >> That's our experience being Walmart customers. So >> it's where I park.

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>> That's what I'm saying. So, you know, you know, it could be 9:00 at night and you want your van to get charged up for the night because it's not a supercharger. That could be they won't have a space to charge. where I will park now that I know that things will be available. >> But it's worth consideration.

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>> We've experienced your store. We know a lot. >> Those charging just further west along the building, but further west. >> Well, I was keep it near the door though, like you still have because you're using it for the deliveries that are coming out that door, correct? So, I'm just saying move it to the other

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side of the door or something. But then >> we could certainly look to make sure that if the comment is just to move it a little bit further west. I don't I don't think that would >> I don't know what actually I think it closer to the building. >> Can it be an alternative? Either resign

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sign where they're at today or proposed >> or we move them further away. >> Yeah. But yes, relocate char uh charging spots further west. Is that right? further west a little right >> indoor signage appro uh

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>> yeah if you move it down I don't think you really need the signage that says >> nobody's going to go try to park close to the front door >> right >> in the wrong space >> just just for me so if if you all act favorably tonight I want to make sure if it comes back and they move it to the

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west can you tell me the exact two spaces that you guys are comfortable with because I don't want to sign off on anything that you guys are not >> I don't where the electrical is. >> Um, >> the electrical around the South building, you know, put

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>> a range of numbers would be fine, too. I just want to make sure. Are we talking about spaces number 13 and 14 or are we talking spaces number four through 10? I just want to make sure that >> 11 through 14. I don't >> somewhere in there. >> We're not trying to create electrical problems or even if it's just the next

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two after the island, you know, >> that's 13 and 14, right? >> I can't read it. It's too small for >> I didn't bring my readers. >> So, are the ranges 11 through 14? Okay. >> I'm getting I'm getting old.

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>> Oh, >> yeah. I was saying even nine or 10. >> They want it closer a little bit so they can load the van. >> So, 10 through 9 through 14. >> I would say anything in there would be plenty. Hello. >> Are we still doing the either or? >> Yeah, that's what I heard.

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>> Okay. >> So, either provide clarifying signage or ship those last. >> Donna, are you good with that? >> I'm okay with that. >> Okay. >> Everybody's okay. Thumbs up. >> Okay. >> I mean, one of the factors we're talking

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here about is the the electrical >> cost to move them from where they're at now. So >> just chimed in with the suggested message in a sign on Walmart van charging only.

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>> Thank you. >> Okay. The next uh comment I believe was number 18 we were on. >> Yep. >> Yes. That's where we are. >> So number 18. Yeah. So, um this was a comment to recommend one of the light poles. There's the Belgium curb that's

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around it is being removed. Um that light pole is actually an exposed foundation right now. It's just over 30 in high. They all are within that area. So, I believe we would meet that condition already and we can provide clarification in our response letter. Yeah. >> Okay.

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>> So, you don't object to the condition. You're just saying you satisfy it. It >> exists. Okay. Um, and number 19, uh, I'll provide clarificating testimony that the proposed two light fixtures are the same, uh, fixtures as as what is on site

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today. So, same same thing. Uh, number 20 is just indicating that there's no increase in impervious, which we acknowledge and agree. So there yeah there was a comment one of the one of the catch bases on the site was um unobtainable during the survey.

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Um I actually did do um a quick physic uh observational walk of the site. The this that catch basin does appear to be in good operating condition. Um I'll have to confirm what the surveyor Y was noted as um inaccessible.

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Um but we would agree to conditions A and B just to verify that the catch basins are um functioning well and um in good condition for the proposed connection. This is in reference to upper post storm water tie in or the root drain and the canopy for the new

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door. So basically we're tying in that new door into the existing underground system so you don't have splash blocks or water, you know. >> Makes sense. >> Yeah. Just just to clarify, this is a similar comment we made at the last meeting. So just we're only looking to basically televise and clean that pipe

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that you're tying it to. So it's the inlet and then wherever that pipe goes to, we just want to make sure that that pipe is just in good condition. Yeah. >> And if it's if it's in good condition, then Yes. >> If it Yeah. And that's another actually good point. If it is in good condition, we don't have to do anything. If it's not in good condition, the condition

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would be to repair or replace as deemed necessary. So that covers number 21. And then on to the detail sheets, there's a few different comments on requests to clarify or update our construction details. And we would agree to all of those for uh summer 20 through through

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22 through 25. That's it. The rest are administrative stuff. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Let's go to the planners report please which is dated April 30th start under under comments on page.

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>> Yes. Sue. >> Yeah. Actually, I'd like to start with the variance relief because I'm looking at Jeff's report and he's calling out two C variances and yet in the application I thought I heard an additional sign variance with respect to the banner which another so I'm a little

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confused because there there's banner here. There's the pickup signs. >> Yeah, I noted in in comment 10. >> Comment 10. Oh, okay. That's it. I'm sorry. It was the wall

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sign. So that's an additional variance, right? >> The wall sign. >> Yeah. Because I heard you say that you you previously sought an aid relief for six, but you currently have eight. So you have two that you don't have permission for that you want to clean up

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>> in this application. And the the square footage might change. That's not requiring additional relief. It's just the number >> based on their testimony. It's actually going down. I think you were going to get get into it. Um, yeah. Later, but it's it's just the number. >> Yeah.

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>> For for two additional, correct? So, that's going to be So, what what's on the top is correct and then number 10 is the additional variance to to get permission for the two additional signs that are on site. Okay. I'm sorry. You see it? I'm sorry.

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>> Number four. Is that where you want to start? >> Yes. Number four. Thank you. Mhm. >> Okay. So, um for comment number four, I think that's just documenting the prior approval and that

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OPD was previously approved. Um comment number five is just clarifying that we're proposing 39 pickup stalls whereas 13 are were previously approved. Comment number six is um clarifying the directional signage

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which is previously testified to the 11 directional signs around the perimeter of the property which are now being reduced to 10 directional signs. >> Uh comment number seven is just clarifying the the size and the um proposal of the two banner signs uh 10

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square foot banner signs. And then comment number eight was the question regarding that the um logo sign which I previously clarified that pickup sign is mounted to the the individual parking space sign. So >> and you want it shown on the site plan. You want it updated Jeff? Is that what

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is that what you're as I'm reading it or no? >> At least some sort of no possibly just clarifying that. Uh comment number nine, I'll defer to the uh the architect um uh their testimony. They can address that along

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with comment number 10. There are building signs being replaced and freshened up, but I'll defer to the architect on that as well. Comment number 11, we would agree to that the sign package must match the board approval. um subject to the the

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changes that we've discussed for comment number 12. I think we clarified the existing parking in the introduction to the presentation. >> I provided those numbers in my intro. Do

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you agree with those numbers? >> Yeah. So it was actually my mistake and it wasn't the existing but rather the required number needs to be consistent with uh other applications for this development. So they're proposed was I believe 2073

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the reducing it to the um 2060 that's what was on the plans that was submitted but I know that after reviewing the resolutions there was a little bit of discrepancy so I don't know on the record >> yeah the number I had

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>> what's your concern >> 2000 >> if there's There's multiple site plans for this development. If there's different numbers, whoever's reviewing at that time, they could it's going to just >> Yeah. We need to have the same number, no matter if it was seven brew or this one.

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>> Yeah. So, the condition could be as long as it's consistent with the prior approval and just uh that's fine. >> And then you can figure it out. >> Whatever that number was. >> Yeah. >> All right. I'll take this offline with you, Jeff, to make sure

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>> I understand it. >> That brings us to number 13, which would previously discussed the seasonal sales. >> Yep. With the >> board of adjustment. >> No. >> No, we're we're going to be bifroed here. >> Okay. >> Um comment number 14. So there was um a

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backo on site for as part of this seasonal snow removal that has actually been removed was out there today. It's gone. So we agreed to to that condition as well or that address that comment. It's been addressed um comment number

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15. So this this area we looked at with um the operational team at Walmart and in photo the feedback we got was that that material is actually all Lowe's material. Um the only storage uh that is

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in that area photo from Walmart is just the pallets which are in the pallet enclosure. Um, so I I presume that would be addressed uh via the Lowe's application that's pending, but there was no material from Walmart still there at this time.

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>> Okay. It it looks like it because it does behind Walmart, but it be verified that that's not actually Walmart's uh material. >> Okay. Thank you for confirming. >> And that's it. and 167 have them addressed if storage

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is not allowed. Okay. >> So, is that a violation that you'll have to follow up? >> It's going to be either a conversation with Lowe's. Yeah. Or it's going to be an enforcement action where Yeah. >> it's going to be brought up. >> Well, Lowe's actually has a use fairness approval.

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>> They're on for tomorrow night. So, their proposal has not been approved. And >> well, there's a 2010 resolution you might want to take a look at. So actually they they have an anchored meeting for tomorrow to amend that. >> Okay.

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>> And that location that they are using >> was not approved. >> Okay. >> And they are coming back and going through the process. >> All right. >> And there's some discrepancy as to where exactly Lowe's and Walmart are going to be storing. It seems like it's all

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Lowe's. So it's going to be a conversation with Lowe's tomorrow night. >> Okay. Okay. >> Which are you going to address next? traffic or landscaping. >> Got two more records. >> There's no EC from the others. >> Traffic. >> Um, yeah,

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>> I've done a Ray memo. >> Aologize May one. >> If there's really any comments to the lighting with the environmental, >> sorry about that. I >> lighting should be shielded to reflect

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all light downward and less than 3,000. >> So yeah, so this comment um so the lights on site, every light in Wilmer is a 5,000k light picture. Um so we're proposing to match what's out there today and and and

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from my perspective, I think it would be preferable to keep the lights the same and to not have three different colored lights throughout the entire rest of the site. So, um I think it is a good recommendation. I'm I'm assuming that the lights will be shielded. Yep. They're all LED lights, so they're

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generally shielded. The two the Let me let me rephrase. So, we would say uh they would need to be shielded if there if there's light spillage, but I don't believe there is any light spillage based on >> No, no increase at all with the light values at the property line. And they are LED lights, so they do a really good

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job at pointing downward. So, Ryan, no condition. No. Okay. Okay. Now I can >> So the traffic uh letter the first commission is just uh referencing the way >> you could focus on four and five.

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>> Sure. >> So for four I'll just run through um I I provided some testimony on the OPD but just a little more information. So the the peak times typically are in weekdays or in the afternoon um roughly 4 to 6, you know, after folks get off of work.

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Um and then Sunday afternoons are also pretty um popular time. So those are kind of the peak peak times throughout the week. Um the uh transaction volume is is you know hopefully going to increase as they're

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expanding. Um but on a typical day um they're seeing approximately 3 to 350 transactions throughout the course of the day. Um and again that's accommodated with the current configuration and they're increasing the whole point of this is to increase the

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supply to to meet the the demand in the OPD. Um occupancy duration of the spaces typically 5 to 10 minutes like on the high end 10 minutes it's usually less than that. So um and then

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the ID number the we would agree to address any um discrepancy >> just for you guys not to get confused between your architectural site plans. I saw two different numbers. >> No problem. And then um final memo

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landscape architect John Morgan Thomas dated May 1st please. And this essentially is recommending that the landscaping

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that was approved previously uh for the site that is since died or disease will be uh replaced and uh we will do so we will make the replacements. Does that include

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that line of shrubbery where the food pantry is that caught on fire? It's like burnt >> by that facial reaction. That was a no. >> Okay. >> Well, I mean I I guess what we did in our report is we documented the plants

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that were in the in the improvement area for this application. But then the second comment was basically in all the in in all the landscaping associated with the rest of the Walmart store that should also be included because if it's not there it's basically a it's

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basically its own in violation anyway. So it should be replaced >> but this is a good time to get that done. So that's what we're asking. And I wasn't sure if that wall of shrubbery that's right there along your pickup route um right there where the food pantry I

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don't know if that is in this I can't tell where the line of delineation is between one or the other. >> We'll we'll look it up. >> Yeah, but it all caught on fire. So the whole side they're facing Walmart is just burnt. >> Well, that would be captured by um Mr.

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Thomas's closing comment about replacing anything that's missing, disease, or dying. Right. So, correct. >> If it's yours, if it's not, >> stays. Thank you. >> Just calling it out. >> Yep. >> Thank you. >> Thanks.

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>> Okay. Uh, any more questions for Mr. McKenna? >> This is just for the record. If anybody is here from the community has questions for Mr. McKenna, there being none. >> Actually, I I need you to go through the positive and negative criteria for the relief.

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>> Well, we have our planner. >> I'm sorry. I thought you were >> Yes. Yes. But it depends. >> That's correct. >> planner on that one. >> Okay. Um, so if no further questions, I'll call our architect, uh, Marco Nevice.

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>> What he was planning to do? >> He did. He did. Yeah. Right. >> She did. He did. >> I know. We're like 90% done. >> Some kind of outdated. >> Yeah. The firemen put it out. They don't

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>> Sorry. They didn't say much. >> I mean, save lives. Buildings and shrubs. >> Lington's a special area with burning bushes. Voices start coming out. mulch fire.

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>> Can you uh start by providing uh briefly your u educational professional credentials for >> Sure. Um my name is Marco Neas. I am a licensed architect in New Jersey and several other states. I uh got my degree

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in architecture from NJT in Newark. Um I've been licensed since the year 2000. I've testified before numerous boards in New Jersey and in surrounding states as an architect and I've also served on the planning board for about five years incl New Jersey. >> Right. Thank you. I'll hold it to the

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board. >> Thank you. >> So to briefly uh go through some of the uh upgrades and some new branding uh with this remodel. Um as the engineer previously mentioned, the first thing I want to mention is the new area uh for

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the pickup. So, the pickup area was moving from this area back here to this area over here towards the front of the store. And as a result of that, we're going to be uh installing a new sliding door as well as a canopy for weather protection. Um, as far as a plan is

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concerned, that's about it. There's interior stuff, but I won't get into that as far as some LED flashes and stuff like that. >> So, we'll mark that uh that that's not part of the submission. Uh, no. I think we provided that.

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>> We provided this. Yes. >> Okay. So, if that's part of the application, then we don't mark it as an exhibit. That's what I'm asking. >> Okay. We submit. >> Yeah. So, that's not an exhibit. >> Okay. >> Anything that wasn't submitted as part of the application, you can fall that

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out. We can mark that. >> This was not originally submitted. This >> Okay. So, then that's going to be A4. A4 just identifying where it goes. >> Um A4 what it is are just larger elevations so it can easily easier be

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seen because these elevations get pretty long and the scale of the original submission was made them very small. >> That'll be A4. >> A4. >> Yes. >> Yeah. A2 is exhibit.

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So, um, just to run through this fairly quickly, um, what Walmart is looking to do is to rebrand the store. Um, there's a lot of, uh, easy bricks that will remain as is. So, anything that is brick that has a brick surface is going to stay exactly the same. um everything

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that has some of these peers and the back wall which is not shown here. It's it's shown on another sheet which I'll get to. CMU block whether it's split faced or smooth face that's going to get painted a new gray and the ephas work which is um there's a lot of features

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architectural features. The features themselves are going to stay intact but they're going to get repainted with a new gray color which is a darker gray. Um, as far as signage and some of the um and and another difference is this is uh

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the main entrance uh for the Walmart currently the where the Walmart sign is. It's already in blue. Um this area over here which is a little bit to the left on the plan. This is currently gray. We would like to make that blue as well. And when you turn the corner and you're

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facing the access way into the parking lot, there's currently a sign similar to this one. Uh it also has gray backing. We would like to turn that into blue as well. Um as far as the signage is concerned, um we are requesting basically the same

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amount of signs that exist there today. Um the overall area of the signs is going to be reduced. I believe the original application approved 465 square feet of signage. I think we're going to end up somewhere around 415,

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which is well below the 5% threshold. And um and yeah, I actually think the original application may have actually have the spark and the Walmart as encountered as one centers that were close together. So, I don't know if that

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if that explained the six versus the eight, but that could be an explanation for it. Uh, but what you see there today is basically where you're seeing what we're proposing. Um, again, this this entrance sign actually got a little smaller. This one got a little bit bigger. Uh, this outdoor sign, I think,

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reads today um lawn and >> garden. Yeah, it says something a little So, there's less lettering. So, yeah. Um we do have a photo of where all the signs exist today which which were submitted uh today to the board for for your reference. And the only other item

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uh that is in addition to this is basically resurfacing the Walmart portion of the pylon sign. So that's going to get redone within within the same boundaries of the sign that exists today. Other than that, that's pretty much it.

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That's any questions for Mr. needs. >> I just say it looks good. >> Thank you. >> One question. >> No, I don't got questions. >> You referenced the the site plan. Um and there's a a pickup sign. >> Could you clarify as to where that is?

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>> Sure. So, um if you look at the photo, one of the photos that was circulated this evening, it's if you're looking at the front elevation, it's all the way to the right. It's actually It actually has an orange background. It says pickup on it. That sign is actually staying in

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that general location. The orange is going away, making way for the new gray. But the pickup sign, I believe, gets a new arrow. And I believe it goes up a little bit. It It's mounted a little bit higher than the previous. >> So that's not That's not shown on your plans.

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>> It is. It's right It's right. It's shown on the elevation. Yes. It's shown on the ex elevation. >> It's also shown on the elevation versus medicine. >> Yeah.

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>> So, so I'm looking at the front and then you're talking about the right elevation though. I'm talking about the front elevation. >> The right end of the front elevation. >> The front elevation all the way up. So, it's right here. goes Walmart or

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Mercedes on pickup. >> Yeah, see where it is. He's right there. >> It's not the right It's not the right location. You have it. You have it on the other side of the Yeah, I'm not sure. >> Okay. >> Oh, on the site plan circle.

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>> Sorry. See the side is showing the existing pickup location which is back here. >> So, so you're not proposing anything back now? Thank you. I just had a question about where the

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P like the OPD area is now. What is that getting used as? Because it looks like you're moving the whole >> section to the front. >> My understanding is that's just backup house and storage. So just another >> So nothing for customers to come in and go or any of that kind of stuff. >> I don't believe so. No.

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>> Okay. In this conversation that I wasn't following between the two of you, is there is there do the site plans need to be amended? Is there an error on there? Does any >> the reference on the architectural plan should just be removed or corrected?

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>> Yeah. So, >> reference to what? >> Top to a pickup location. >> Top left portion pickup location to be removed. >> Correct. Okay.

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>> I I thought I was here in a condition, but I had no idea. >> Yeah, the the pickup location on needs to be corrected. >> Yep. >> You just circled the wrong spot of the building. >> Donna, did you have anything you wanted to add here? >> No, I'm good. She's good. >> Great. Thank you. >> And once again, for the record, there's

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nobody from the community who's here, >> right, to question your testimony. I call my last uh witness, our professional planner. >> Hey, Mr. bandage employee, could you uh begin by

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providing the board your educational and professional background, please? >> Sure. >> Um Peter Vencoy with the community consulting services. Um I am a licensed professional planner in the state of New Jersey. My license is active and good standing and I'm also a member of the

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American Institute of Service. And have you uh testified either before this board or other boards in the state of New Jersey as a professional planner? >> I have. I've testified before H50 boards. Um I'm also the current planning

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board planner for Sarville and um I've testified boards both planning zoning boards throughout the city. >> Thank you. He's acceptable. >> Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman. >> Uh so Mr. Uh Vander Cory, can you um

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explain what your role is with this application? >> Sure. Um if it pertains to you the uh the site plan, master plan documents site visit provide professional planning opinion as to the um whether the the C2

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variances that are being requested as well as one waiver uh meet the criteria and provide a sound basis for approval. So, have you reached an opinion regarding the variance and waiver relief? I >> I have and I can provide some some background information on on that as well. Thank you.

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>> So, um as as I mentioned in preparation for this hearing, I reviewed the um existing conditions, proposed conditions, application package um as well as the ordinances master plan um took a look at the site as well as you know aerial photo photography. The

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surrounding uses are commercial and predominantly with one multif family use relatively nearby but it's relatively intensely developed. Uh the existing site of course contains a Walmart and a uh Lowe's uh that's immediately adjacent to it. And um you know as you know

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there's no change to the building size. In this case it's the application's focused on striping and Spanish or oriented toward uh pickup and operations on the exterior of the building. The zone is planned commercial office service districts. Um the zone zone

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relief uh requested as mentioned previously just to recap um there is a total of three different types of variances requested. One that's with site on light poles due to the marquee the pickup area that's an association

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with uh code section 296-161G and that's for for a type of signage that's not currently permitted. Um the uh variances requested um include section 296-165 since for signage area which includes the banner signs of 10 square ft and the

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pickup signs of 4.5 ft or 3 square ft is permitted and >> and I guess also now five square feet for the wayfinding signs. >> Does that require a variance or no? >> Yes, it does. >> Oh, it does. Okay, it does as well. >> Right.

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And uh third type of variance is for building sign quantity as you had heard um it's really mostly a replacement of the existing signage and I guess it's and I haven't I haven't looked into the the details of the um the minutes let's say from the past hearings as far as whether the spark and the Walmart sign

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were considered as one versus two but I I suspect that might be the case where they may have been considered as one sign now they're being considered as two because it's gone from six to eight. That's basically the same sign package sheet. uh but nevertheless uh we're requesting a uh relief for variance for

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uh quantity of signs going from six to eight signs and that's uh in accordance with or as per code section 2963D 2A. Um in terms of justifications for relief um my it's my professional opinion that all the relief is justified under

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flexible C balancing test as a better zoning alternative. Uh the benefits of the application as a whole substantially outweigh any detriments. Um improvements and uh project benefits that will be provided include operational efficiencies to better serve the customer base um to respond with demands

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and um provide ease and convenience of online bordering. Uh the improvements are a simple retrofit of an existing space to promote an efficient use of land. Uh the improvements will integrate the overall site and promote a desirable visual environment. And the project

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responds to the planning goal of a variety of commercial uses and appropriate locations. And all of these tie back to the ML purposes which are promoted here uh purposes ag uh with regard to detriments there are no substantial detriments created by

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minor site modifications. Uh the project's designed to flow function and operate safe safely comfortably efficiently. Um the modest improvements will not undermine or repair the zone plan intents um but in my opinion will actually advance the zone plan of improving and enhancing the safety

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operations on site. Um his centrally is is um in my opinion uh testified on on that basis as part of the uh purpose of municipal land use law as well. In conclusion with the variances and address the uh weight in a little more detail in a moment but with respect to

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the variances the approvements in my opinion will enhance the established business um minimal many impacts um and the statutory criteria um I believe are met in this case and provide a sound basis for approval and would you like me to continue with the uh sign?

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>> Uh yes with the waiver please. Okay. So, with respect to the waiver, uh it's for um where there's a design exception to permit a higher average illumination to minimum elimination ratio essentially um going that's in the parking area going

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from a ratio of 7 to 4.1 instead of 4:1. The ratio is the result of an increasing light level within the OPD which is the main you know focus area outside to promote a safer interaction between the the staff and customers. Um the change is limited to that area. There's no

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impacts um on values you know outside of that area. Um due to this local increase though it does you know exceed the minimum ratio. Um just wanted to to also note that there's no residential news no residential uses nearby and the parking

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lot is quite large as you all know. So it's relatively well offered um you know based on the um the distances involved here um it's my professional opinion uh that this waiver satisfies the standard of reasonleness and we'll actually see

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the onset. That's all I have. >> Thank you. I have no uh further questions. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Anybody have any questions for Mr. Vandoy? >> Donna, you good? >> Straight forward. Yes.

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So, that completes our direct uh presentation. Mr. Chairman, uh we we are hopeful based on the testimony that you heard this evening that uh you will um find that this uh application

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can be approved along with the uh variance relief and waiver relief uh being requested and with the understanding that uh we're bifurcating the aspect of the application involving the outdoor uh seasonal uh sales area

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which will be handled in a separate application. >> With that, I'd like to ask for a motion to approve Walmart Real Estate Business Trust, their preliminary and final site plan with both variances. There are three variances in one waiver as we just

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heard from Mr. Vandoy. So >> uh with the with the conditions as agreed, right? As as detailed in all four of the board professional reports, planner, engineer, the landscape, and

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traffic, as well as the add there's five additional uh conditions that I wrote down that were not necessarily or specifically called out. One is that and it's one that I've already discussed with council. The conditional approval

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must state that there can be no seasonal sales permitted without either a conditional use approval or a D1 variance. Uh there would be no change in the store hours that the applicant will be adding its logo uh to the Wayfair

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signs to delete the one pickup sign as discussed and relocate relocate the second as discussed not to exceed five square feet. The banner heights will be 13 to 18 feet. Uh and there will be two

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signs 2x5. Uh, and you will relocate the charger further west andor signage uh regarding um that will state Walmart van charging only. And I think

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that is feel like I'm missing one. Um I think that's it. But they're uh >> uh Oh, and you're going to address Well, I Yeah, that's that's in the But you're going to uh What was the conversation

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you had with They're going to amend the site plan to remove the top left pick. >> Yeah, it was just the key plan. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, that's it. That's those are those are the conditions. >> Can I move it now? >> Yes. >> You can move it.

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>> Second. >> What? No. I thought Ed made the motion. Michelle for it. >> Oh, excuse me. >> Okay. Chairman, Mr. Edward Gettings. >> Yes. >> Vice Chair Miss Donna Drews.

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>> Yes. >> Miss Robin Fatu. >> Yes. >> Mr. Bob King. >> Yes. >> Mrs. Dennis Concan. >> Yes. >> Miss Michelle Cafakiri. >> Yes. >> And Mr. James Miller. >> Yes. >> Thank you very much. >> Excellent. >> Again, thank you for having this meeting.

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You guys need to figure out a date for the bifurcation so that he can he can advertise that. >> So I don't we don't have to do that right this second. But you guys are going to have to >> we're not going to be noticing it here

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on the day as he has to renotice. So but I'm just reminding that the two of you need to pick a date >> for that f for that second hearing. It shouldn't take long. >> No, >> it it should not be like more than

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for June 28th, I thought. >> Yeah, you're have to resubmit a new application. >> Yeah. >> So, >> I'm I will be discussing a date with you till you resubmit and complete. >> All right. >> But I will just let you know we're already scheduling it to July and

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August. >> We should be able to get out. We should be able to squeeze it out. >> I would think it's a small quick thing. >> This is very quick. Yeah, this would not be more than 15 >> Yeah. >> minutes, I don't think. >> I agree. I really don't be very short. >> Yeah. And what we're going to need is

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obviously all of the conditions on this approval are going you're going to add update the site plan and you're also going to add the seasonal sales location on the site plan. That's what we need. >> And then we'll submit a conditional use application. Yeah. Right.

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>> Yeah. And then with that Yep. >> Yeah. The only the only have to we just have to Go ahead, Donna. >> The only thing I would just say is that make sure that you're not in violation of any parking fire zones around the building

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>> because that's become a big issue with an adjacent property with their garden center. >> Yes. >> You would never. >> Yeah. I'm just >> Yeah.

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I know they have stuff there's stuff across the front and I don't know if that's in a >> the the fire lane. >> Okay. >> Or at least there has been in the past. So, >> okay. Yeah. Thank you.

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>> Thank you. With that, we're ajour. Thanks everybody. >> Do I need to keep those plans for next meeting? Is that >> Do I need to keep those plans? >> Extra storage. That's the next one. No, I mean for the next Walmart >> Walmart, >> you don't need that.