Yeah, thank you. Calling to order the zoning board of adjustment routing township, New Jersey regular meeting September 18, 2025. Notice of meeting. The notice requirements of the open
public meetings act has been satisfied by the placing of a notice of this meeting on the bulletin board at the municipal building filing same with the township clerk and transmitting same to the Hun County Democrat the Courier News the Star Ledger and the Trenton Times
roll call please chairwoman Miss Cynthia Schaefer here vice chair Miss Arculi has asked to be excused Mr. Steve Farcio here Mr. Randy Block here Mr. Jim Ferrero here. Miss Lindsey Kbringel, she is asked to be excused. Miss Lorett Cina
here. Miss Donna Drews here. Mr. James Miller here. Board of Professionals board attorney Mr. John Drill here. Township planner Mr. Jeffrey Varella here. On behalf of uh township engineer Mr.
Aesh Dari. We have Mr. Ryan McCarthy here. Traffic consultant Mr. J. Troutman here. Board planner, Miss Joseph Caldwell, has to be excused. And Township landscape architect, Mr. John Morgan Thomas here. Okay. Can I get a motion to Oh, how about the board secretary?
Excuse me. Board Secretary Taylor Vaughn here. Okay. Okay. Can I get a motion to excuse board members Lindsay? I'll make second. Lindsay and Ros. Sorry. Thank you, Russell. I'll second that. I already second.
Oh, you did? Okay. My bad. Randall Chairwoman Miss Cynthia Schaefer. Yes. Mr. Randy Block here. Is that yes? Yes. Yes. Oh, yes. Mr. Steve Barcio. Yes. Mr. Jim Ferrero. Yes. Miss Lorina.
Yes. Miss Donna Drews. Yes. Mr. James Miller. Yes. We have to excuse Rul as well. No, she said it. She said both. Both. Oh, I'm sorry. My hearing out. No, she amended. Oh, okay. Okay. Okay.
Uh moving on to comments and announcements. Hearing none. Moving to distribution correspondence. So we do have the uh final revision of the uh township and zoning board adjustment 2024 annual report. Um thank you
everyone for all your your contributions especially Lorett and Donna. Um a lot of this came from them and of course Jeff and Taylor. Um, can I get a motion to adopt it? Correct. Yes.
So moved. Second. Roll call. Chairwoman. Miss Cynthia Schaefer. Yes. Mr. Randy Block. Yes. Mr. Steve Farcio. Yes. Mr. Jim Ferrero. Yes. Miss Lorett Cina. Yes. Miss. Donna Drews.
Yes. Mr. James Miller. Yes. Okay. Moving on to the resolutions for this evening. We have two. First res resolution. Raran Township Board adjustments CE Main Street LLC 181 Old Croin Road block 41 lot 63
application BOA-06-2024 resolution memorial memorializing modification of condition number one of the resolution number 2024-12 for extension of time to revise plans and related documents and to obtain signatures on the revised plans to
December 5th 2025 resolution number 2025-12 version 2025-09-08- version 2. Any comments or changes? Hearing none, can I get a motion to approve?
So moved. Second. Can I get a roll call from Right. Roll call of the people that voted. Yeah. For it. Yeah. So, chairwoman, Miss Cynthia Schaer. Yes. Mr. Randy Block. Yes.
Steve and Jim, you guys are abstaining. Miss Laurina. Yes. Miss Donna Drews. Yes. Miss James Miller. Yes. I think I can vote for that one. Can I? No. I'm sorry. I didn't mean it like that. Are you sure? Of course. On it. This is C. Right. Taylor. CE.
Yeah, he's on it. CE. Excuse me, guys. Nothing. It's different. I was doing pioneer. I see what's going I see what's going on here. All right. Scratch that. So, yes. Let's Yeah. Okay. The applicants in the audience, it's going to pass anyway. So, don't worry.
Staying here. Just so you know, all those people in the audience, they're all with the applicant on the next hearing. That's good. Is anyone in the audience not here with the applicant tonight? Okay. They're here for fun. All right. Moving on to the second
resolution for this evening. Ron Township Board of Adjustment, Pioneer Developers, Inc. one Barbarich Drive block 36 lot 13 application BOA-26-20 resolution memorializing modifications
of condition number 5A of the resolution number 2025-03 for extension of time to complete all tree remediation work from June 1st June 1 2025 to August 30th 2025
resolution number 2025-13 version 2025-09-08- version 2. Any changes, comments? Hearing none. Can I get a motion? Oh, sure. Go ahead. I was just wondering um the work is complete. You got it. Remember microphone. You're a big offender.
I was just wondering if the work is complete. I was just asking John that. Hold it. Uh the remediation work is complete and the remediation work was completed by August 26th. Correct. Yes.
Okay. Can I get a motion to approve? So move. I'll second. Can I get a roll call, please? Correctly. Yes. Chairwoman, Miss Cynthia Schaefer. Yes. Mr. Randy Block. Yes. Miss Lorett Cina.
Yes. Miss Donna Drew. Yes. Mr. James Miller. Yes. Okay. Moving on to the application for this evening. We have two BOA case. Are we doing the fir? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. BO case number 02-2023
applicant is family Flemington Family Partnership LLC. Location is block 72.23 lots 31 and 31.01 324 and 328 highway 202 application preliminary and final site plan with
Dvariants and bulk varants for proposed car dealership. I have nothing to read. Yeah. So just a a question. I believe this is I don't know how many number of times
this is now being adjourned. Mhm. And we're scheduling and they're going to have to renotice. Correct. No. No. No. We didn't. So this what's the change? When was the last time they were continued to this evening without the need for further
notice or are we Okay, so we received a correspondence letter from them last Friday stating that they would like an adjournment request because they were last heard July 17th and at that meeting we stated
for the record that they would be carried to October 2nd, but they had to make the 21-day deadline. Correct? So last Friday they did not meet the deadline. A correspondence was sent to us already requesting an adjournment and it also stated that they want to
speak with the applicant. They weren't sure if they were moving forward. So this is this is a break in the notice this evening. If you say so. I I don't So did they ask for a date certain to be
adjourned to? No. No. So obviously they're not here. They can't proceed. So my there's no problem adjourning it, but you can't pick a date or you could pick a date, but they have
to have their stuff submitted 21 days before and they're going to have to renotice. So again, I'm sorry. Do you have that letter with you hard copy? No, but I have it. Hold on. Virtually. This is their September This is the September 12, 2025 letter from Cara
Kazinski. Is that correct? Correct. Okay. I'll read it in the into the record. It says, "Dear Miss Vaughn, as you're aware, this office represents the applicant in connection with its application before the township the township of Rarid and zoning board of adjustment regarding the above
referenced properties which is currently scheduled to continue at the board's meeting of October 2, 2025. Please accept this correspondence at the applicant's formal request to adjourn the application to the board's next available meeting so the applicant can
further evaluate its options. And I'm not going to read. So they are asking for the next available, right? They're asking for the next available option, but the board it's scheduled for October 2. Tonight is September 18th.
So their notice has without need for further notice is for October 2. If they can't make the October 2 date, we would have to remember to make an announcement on October 2. So my suggestion is unless
someone thinks they want to do, you know, otherwise I'm just making a suggestion is to say, okay, you won't be heard in October two. Tell us when you want to be heard and you're going to have to renotice. Unless you want to pick a date certain
and then be in the same position. You guys have been trying to schedule residential applications one meeting a month and commercial the other meeting a month. Now for this applicant up next, this is their lucky night. Okay. But normally you're trying
to bang out two commercials a meeting. Mhm. Sometimes you can't finish two in a meeting, right? So, if you give them a date certain and they do this again, again, you're going to have two scheduled for that night and you'd only go with one. So, it's up to
you how you want to schedule this, but what do you want to do? Do you want to give them a date certain in November and tell them, you know, the what the 21day submittal date is and then have to on October 2 make an announcement
continuing continuing it to November. When was this application submitted? Taylor, when uh 2023, right? I have a feeling that you have a rule that says that your your 200 foot list has to be I believe it's within
four months. I I I prefer four to six months whatever. Okay. But still I'll bet you that the list is also out of date. So my suggestion is okay well
they're adjourned but have Taylor try to schedule a date with them and they have to renotice. But again it's totally up to you. That's just my suggest. What is our What is our calendar looking like? I mean, for once, November is pretty open. November and December, they're they're pretty open.
Surprisingly, for now. Yeah, it's it's been a good year. I hate to say it. A good fall so far. Yeah. Oh gosh. Do we have anything close that could that that could jump into November that we would then be pushing out if we
gave them the November date? So, there's there's a couple res there's a couple residential applications in a non-conforming use certificate that are ready for November, November. But if you didn't have a commercial application in November, you could do
two meetings in November for residentials or you could meet for once in the month for the first time in three years. Three years. I I was going to say maybe seven years. But also, I would just think about, you know, getting revised plans and you guys
actually looking at them and also the board professionals as well. Oh, because you guys had a lot of comments for them. Yeah. I think about the pile on my table is like so um whatever you'd like. I mean, would it be worth it to to wait until
they submit and then to give them a date? Oh, okay. I like I like the sound of that. I like that. There you go. You know, we need to get off this mayor. Go round. Should I put that on the record? Put that on the note.
James Miller. Yeah, there you go. There you go. And so I take it you're going to German's no problem. And you're going to ask Taylor to send them a letter saying a Germans no problem. And once they make the submission, then they'll be given a new date. But
now the last question is when is the board's time to decide the application expire? I did not bring it down. I believe it's the end of the year. Can you just the believe part? I don't like the believe. I I didn't bring it. Okay. I had a break and someone just check. Yes.
Okay. And we'll tell them that if there and ask for an extension till March 31, 2026. I was going to say in the note either resubmission or a decision because they were they did state they weren't sure if
they were going to move forward. Okay. Oh, resubmission or a decision? I think. Okay. Okay. They were the ones who mentioned it. Well, they re What happened to Jeff's suggestion? It sounded good to me.
Okay. Never mind. Yeah, never mind. Never mind. We're wasting time. But can you in the letter can you ask Taylor to tell him that they're going to have to extend to March 31, 2026 because the board has no confidence
that they're going to be resubmitted? Feel free to use that word no confidence and with the need to renotice. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Yes. Okay. All right. Moving on to the second application for this evening. BOA case number 10-2025.
Applicant is G7B LLC. Location block 16.01, lots 35, 36, 38, 132, Highway 31, preliminary and final site plan and devariance with bulk variances for a proposed drive-thru coffee shop. Good
evening. Good evening, Madam Chair, members of the board. Jason Touvel, attorney for the applicant. Um, this is an application as as stated for preliminary and final site plan. um D variance for the drive-thru component of the proposed
coffee shop as well as C variances uh for signage only. Uh the block is block 16.01 and it involve it involves lots 35, 36 and 38. So the proposal is for a seven brew and we'll get into that more
in a minute. um coffee shop with drive-thru to be located on the vacant pad site that's located directly adjacent to the PetSmart um as it relates to the Raran Town Square property. The proposed 7B brew is going
to be approximately 510 square ft. So a very small building. Um, and I should note that previously when the original shopping center was approved back in the early 2000s, this pad site there was contemplated a building of approximately 3,800 square
ft with the drive-thru. So, there was development always proposed here. I guess it never materialized. And this will be a little bit smaller as it relates to the building. So, it's 510 square ft and it's a little bit different than I guess what we're used to as it relates to coffee shops.
Whereas there's no cooking inside the building. So there's no cooking aspect to this um to this application. It's only drinks. So it's coffee, tea, um and energy drinks. That that's it. Um there is no inside seating as it's a only a
510 square foot building. There's no indoor seating. Uh there is a picnic table on the site plan as if you're looking at it, but that's only for employees for for for a break. Um, the hours of operation, and we'll go through this in testimony as well, but just so you can have it in your minds when
you're listening, are 5:00 a.m. to 10 p.m. Um, seven days a week. Um, there's only 6 to eight employees on a peak shift, less when it's not a peak shift. And the deliveries are minimal, and we'll go through that as well as trash because they only serve um, beverages.
Oh, excuse me. They do have pre They do have muffin tops prepackaged. They do have that, but there's no cooking um on site. Muffin tops or the whole muffin? Just the tops. Okay. Uh make sure that's a condition of approval. Okay. Um um the application
though as a whole does comply with the bulk requirements in the zone. So we don't require any setback variances, coverage variances. The F complies. We do have some variance relief as it relates to signage, but we'll go through that um in a minute or during our plan during our testimony as it really
relates to the size of the building and the location um on the on the property. Uh we've gone through the letters uh from the board's engineer, the board's planner, um and and board's traffic consultant. There's nothing in those letters that we cannot comply with, but we'll go through those uh during um
during testimony. I have four witnesses that I plan on calling. So the first witness will be Zach Rosscam. He's the principal of the applicant. He'll be operating the facility. So he'll go through operations, tell you about Sever Brew, how it's a little unique from the
other types of coffee shops that you're maybe used to. Do every time you announce a witness, spell their last name for not only the G court stenographer, but myself. So what's Zach's last name? Ross Cam. R O S K A M.
Okay. And then our second witness will be our civil engineer, Aaron Chan with Stonefield Engineering and Design. That's a A N C Han. Then Justine Fox FOX will be our traffic engineer um from also from Stonefield
Engineering and Design. And then finally, our professional planner, uh Christine Cafone, COF OE, is our professional planner on the project. Um, I provided my affidavit of notice and publication to the board. So, I believe
that's in good order. Um, so with that, Madam Chair, if with your permission, I'd be Can I call my first witness? Yeah, I'm going to swear everyone in, including the board experts. But Zach Ruscam, he's the applicant's what? Principal. Principal. Yeah, he'll be the our
operations witness. A fact witness. Hold on. I think you might have spelled his last name wrong. Sorry, two M's. I thought about that for a second. Sorry. How do you spell it? Just add one M to what I gave you at the end. Okay. Sorry.
All right. So, can the four people that Jason mentioned stand up? Can all four of the board experts stand up? Can everyone raise your right hand? Does everyone swear or affirm the testimony you're going to give in this matter? It's the truth, the whole truth. Nothing but the truth. Starting down there.
Yes. Yes. Yes. I do. I do. Yes. Okay. And for the board stenographer, can the four of you identify yourselves and give your relationship to the applicant? Just go right around the horn.
[Music] Got our methods. This is Jeff Aarella. I'm the township planner. Ryan McCarthy, township engineer. Township engineers office. Jay Troutman, the board's traffic
consultant. John Thomas, boards landscape consultant. Good. Yeah, you're good to go. All right. Thanks. All right. So, the first witness I'll call, Madam Chair, is uh Zach Rosscam. Um he is a principal of the applicant, and we'll go through
operational testimony as well as give background on um Seven. Thank you. So, Zach, you've already been you've already been sworn in by the by the board attorney. if you could just give your relationship to the application and what your duties and responsibilities are in that capacity.
Hello everyone. Thank you for the time. We we really appreciate it and exciting excited to potentially be coming to Raritton Township and and thank you for your time to to hear us. Uh my name is Zach Rosscam. I'm one of the principles and primary owners of of Seven Brew in New Jersey. We're a local franchisee.
Seven Brew is actually across 34 states, but we are the franchisee for New Jersey. So, we own this market of New Jersey. Um, my wife and I are both the primary principles and owners. So, in that capacity, you're going to be you're fully familiar with the
day-to-day operations of the facility. Yes. Okay. Why don't you tell the board a little bit about the seven brew model, sort of how it works and what differentiates it from maybe other coffee facilities. And just go nice and slow. No problem. So, as Jason mentioned, we
are drive-thru only. We operate out of a 510 square foot building and we are beverage only. So primarily serving coffees, teas, lemonades, milkshakes, energy drinks, flavored sodas. Um you come, we come to your car to take your order on an iPad. Our employees will
come to you. We tried no speaker box in our facility and then we also come to your car to deliver you your drink. So we go personto person for two interactions every time you come to our shop. Um, and we operate from 5:30 a.m.
until 10 p.m. Seven days a week on Saturday and Friday. We we stay open till 11, but but 5:30 to 10 every other day, an extra hour on Friday and Saturday. We typically get two deliveries a week and typically have trash come twice a week as well.
Okay. Um, and those deliveries, they come during off hours. Yes. Okay. And there is a walk up window um on the plan. So if you could just describe that as well. Yes. So we do not advertise it and it is a very very minute part of our business, but we do want to accommodate
pedestrians who don't understand the model and might walk up to our stand. So we have a separate section that is sidewalked where pedestrians can walk onto the site. One of our employees can walk out to them, take their order, and then deliver them their drink. It is technically a sliding door. So we can actually walk out to the pedestrian,
speak to them, walk them through the menu, take their order, and then give them their drink. Okay. And then if you if you said this, I apologize. Just how many employees do you have on a peak shift? Approximately 5 to eight depending on the stand and how busy we are. Okay. And then during off peak times,
what are your typical number of employees? Three to four. Okay. Um in terms of the garbage pickup, how many times per week is that? And is that also during off- peak hours? typically during off- peak hours and twice a week. Okay. And then there was a question I believe in one of the upboard
professional reports. Do you have Door Dash pre-ordering Uber Eats? Does that occur in your facility? No, do not do any Door Dash, Uber Eats or any of the delivery services. We also you cannot order ahead. There's only one mechanism of ordering to keep things
very efficient and fast through the drive-thru. Okay. And this has come up also from board professionals and other uh boards. Um since it's all all the service is being done by the employees outside of the building. Um what do you do in
inclement weather? If it's cold, if it's raining, what occurs? Yep. So in the colder weather, we actually have very heavy jackets and we also rotate employees inside and outside. Employees will never be outside more than 10 or 15 minutes at a time. We also have heater stationed all across the site for the employees benefits and
we provide them with very heavy jackets um and encourage them to continuously switch inside and outside. In in warm weather, we have a canopy that gives them shade and coverage. We also have uh cold rags that we provide and similarly switch them inside and outside every 10 to 15 minutes.
Okay. And again, we said no cooking on the premises, so you don't have any fryers, no there's no boiling, anything like that? No, no, none of that. Okay. There was and I mentioned it in in the opening there is a picnic table on the plan. Can you just describe what that's for? Yes. So that's primarily for employee
training and breaks. So that is for employees maybe working a six-hour shift. Maybe he wants to sit down for just a couple minutes. It's a 510 foot building, very small. There's nowhere good to sit inside so they can go sit at that picnic table for a short break. And then it's also a great spot for employee
training when they're learning how to how to work at a sem. Okay. All right. That's all I have for Mr. Ross Cam. I just wanted him to go through operations. Obviously, the board will see more of it when the site plan comes up and you'll see how the site is laid out, but that's all I have for him on direct. Okay. I I have a couple questions, but go ahead.
Absolutely. You sure? Yeah. Go ahead. All right. So, I'm I'm confused. Absolutely. No problem. So, the way you explained it. Yes. I was thinking you have a drive up. You have double driveups. Okay. And what you said is
they're going to come out to the car and take your order, which leads me to believe more of a sonic type model where the cars pull up and park and you come out. So explain to me what I'm missing with the drive up versus people coming out. Yeah, it's a great question. So it's a double drive-thru where the drive-thru
and you'll see in the site plan is around the building and the cars can move up and our employees are actually trained to slowly inch the cars up as they're ordering to make sure the line keeps moving. But there's a sidewalk along the inner lane for the employee to stand on so that they can take an order at the window of the car. And on the
outer lane, there's a two-foot striped um no drive area that the employee stands in to take the order on the outside lane. So the cars are in line and can move up and our employees are actually trained to slowly move them up, but it is not parked. Okay, you can go. I I have more.
So I just a couple questions. Um, have you do you own any other seven brew locations? We do. So, we've been approved in eight townships across New Jersey. The We've been uh approved in Washington Township, in Tom's River, in Winslow, in
Glouester, in Middle Township. Um, we are open in Washington Township. We are about to open in Tom's River. We are under construction in Middle Township in in Kate May. Um, and are about to break ground in in Gloucester, among others. So, is there only one store that you own that is actually active right now?
That is correct. Although there are 500 7 Brews across the country. Um, and I've been working with Seven Brew across uh multiple different groups for the last 5 years. I just went to one uh never heard of it before. Um, I was in Auburn, Alabama, and uh I went to it. It It's an
unbelievable operation. I would call it uh Why don't you describe it? It's like Chick-fil-A on crack. I mean, that's basically what it looked like. Um he he's the way he described it is exactly what I saw. Um and what's
interesting about it is that there is you don't go inside. Although I guess I can tell you that the people the people that were in my car because we had never been there before actually got out of the car to go order. Yeah. Very quick. Um did anyone order a muffin top? No. Not that I know of. Not that I know
of. But, um, next time what's interesting is that, you know, and and this is something that you guys are going to have to get into is that there reason why I think you're going to have two drive-throughs is because it's just it it can get very crowded. Um, there there were a lot of
cars. Now, understand that this was a day after a football game. There's people there. Um, but from what I've been told from other people and from what I could see, and obviously he's going to he'll testify to it, but Yeah. Just go on what you saw and not by what someone told. Yeah. Yeah. But it's it's it's a it's
interesting. They do come out in iPads. They come out, they take your order. Um, and so, you know, it's it's exactly the way he described it. Um, my question is, and I guess we're going to get into it later on, uh, because I do want to hear from your traffic expert, but the
question I have is when you were looking at Flemington, did you look at other any other sites besides this one? We did. Yes. Okay. Um, we did. And this site, was there a reason why you picked this site? Because there are some variances you needed, obviously, but is there a reason why you picked this site?
There are there are several. Um, we we struck a great deal with the landlord, but we also think it's a a great spot. It's right in the middle of a bunch of retail. There's a there's there's a great um uh sort of it it's a it's a good spot for for people to come together. Okay. Um those are really only the
questions I had. I just I I am going to have a question when we get to the traffic expert just because that area is it's it's a it's a traffic nightmare at times. But um the operation as the applicant testified to is exactly what I saw and it was very efficient when I was
there. Very efficient. So Okay. All right. So now what you said I have more questions. Yes. So you have two drive up lines. Yes. Okay. And no one's going to park anywhere. Correct. Okay. So I get in line. There's two cars
in front of me and two cars behind me and it's just me and everybody's ordering a lot families. How do I get out? Yeah, my order comes and I can't get out. So, typically the drinks are made in order. There are exceptions where
somebody has a big order in front of them or maybe there was a mistake in front of them. If you're in the outer lane, we can serve you when you're second in line or third in line and there is a a pass through lane. So you'll be able to exit to the right, right, and and get out. If you're in the
inner lane, typically you do have to wait for the car in front of you to leave, but our average weight times are very fast. So you still won't be waiting very long. Okay. So what are the average weight times? So it can vary quite a bit by site um across the country. It depends on where
you are, depends on how busy the stand is, but but typically we're in the 3 to four minute range from the time you order to when you get your drink. That's the same as fast food. We're depending on what metric you look at, we're about one and a half times faster than a lot of our coffee
competitors. Okay. And that's I think just to dovtail off that, the reason is it's only drinks. There's there's no there's no cooking. There's no warming. It's just it's just beverages. No cooking. And also, we only have one form of ordering. So, you don't have to
balance the Door Dash and the the in in store. We don't have any of that. So, it's always one form of ordering, one line. Well, two two drive-throughs, but and we have multiple machines making those drinks, but one form of ordering, which keeps it all very ordered. Okay. I'm surprised you're going to get
younger people to actually face toface order. They don't like that kind of stuff. But, but let's Okay. All right. I'm good. We're good. Appreciate it. Thank you all. Okay. All right. So, Madam Chair, the next witness I would have is our civil
engineer, Aaron Chan, and he'll put the plan on this up so that everybody can see how it operates as well. Oh, and I just wanted to make it clear, I said during um my opening, and I think Zach corrected me, it's 5:30 a.m. to 10
p.m. 7 days a week. So, that that is what the time is. If if I can And then he said Friday will be an extra hour. Friday, Saturday. Friday and Saturday to 11. Yeah. So, yeah, Friday and Saturday to 11. So, I just want to make it clear that the May 5th, 2025 memo from Stonefield did say
seven days a week. So, we're just going to modify that to the Right. And we're going to take out on the Stonefield memo, it says 5:30 a.m. So, we're going to modify 5:30 to 5 a.m. No, no, no, no. It is 5:30. Yeah. So, it's just the weekend part,
John, that have to be modified. Okay. No, thank you for that. Okay. And just one other clarification. Let me get that one other clarification is what is the use variance that you need and why? I believe the way that the planner's
letter reads is for it's for the drive-thru for a fast food uh user. Because the board should be aware of this. This is just I obviously don't testify. This is my belief. I think that recent ordinance amendment where a
couple things got a little messed up. I think this is one of them because I was looking in the ordinance and I don't think fast food restaurants now are permitted anywhere in the township. Fast food. Yeah, it's defined. There's a
definition. Get closer to the microphone. John within fast food. So, I believe I think your notice is fine, but I think that the use variance that they're applying for is not merely because they have drive up service, but it's because it's
a fast food restaurant. Because I asked Jeff, can you show me what zone in the township allows fast food? And there is none. Oops. Oops. So, if
now you guys, a couple people on the board were part of that committee. Mhm. So they're going to need their planner is going to need to later reconcile the variance with the ordinance. So you guys might be helpful in Did you guys intend
to have this ordinance prohibit fast food? No, I don't. Not from everywhere in the township. No, no, there were some I thought we were just limiting it to a spec couple specific area. What's the definition though? Right here. You know what? I don't want to test. Can
you read the definition of fast food? [Music] A retail food service operation in which a limited or in which a limited or specialized list of quickly prepared or prepared food items is offered for
onremise or off-remise consumption. or where a drive up window exists for ordering food items or where vehicle food service or or consumption of food within a vehicle exists on the premises.
So, if let's assume that fast food restaurants were allowed here, would the drive up somehow require a D1 variance? No. So if fast food was allowed here,
this this fast food restaurant would be allowed here. Yes. And again, have you looked in the or did I ask you to look in the ordinance and see if fast food restaurants are now allowed anywhere? Yes. And did you find it allowed anywhere? I couldn't find the exact the exact use fast food.
Well, and there's another ordinance provision that says if it's not expressly permitted, it's prohibited. Is it fast food? Food is coffee is not food. Drinks are not food. Um I again my opinion under the
ordinance drinks that you buy at a restaurant if the restaurant is has a limited or specialized list of food items. I believe that drinks would be included and they do sell muffin tops.
Just saying they do sell muffin tops. Is there is there any other item of food just muffin tops? Just muffin tops is a very small part. Okay. No, no, no. It's an important part of your operation, isn't it? Yeah. Or otherwise, why would you sell muffin
Why do you sell muffin tops? Say to the microphone, please step up. People do often ask for a snack, but it is a very very small percentage of our business. Less than less than 1% of sales. In any event, it would either it would
either be fast food as John's saying or it would be retail sales or the other. It's one or the other. Okay. So, here's the issue, right? The drive up makes it fast food also because the retail services which are permitted if you read that definition
establishments providing services or entertainment to the general public including eating and drinking places. Well, eating and drinking places and it doesn't and retail services doesn't mention food. All right. Yeah. I mean, I would just I think we should just always take the
most conservative approach with it. I think that's always the best way to do it, right? So, um Agreed. Yeah. Okay. And part of our testimony as you hear from our planner is the the sort of the limited nature of this. I just wanted to make that make sure that the use requesting is not to have
the drive up. It's to have this. It's the entirety of the development. That's fine. Okay. Yeah, that's fine. All right. Sorry for the inter. No, that's okay. All right. So, Madam Chair, I'm going to bring up our civil engineer, Aaron Chan with Stonefield Engineering and Design. Aaron, you've been sworn in. So, why don't you just go through your
qualifications for the board, educational background, your license is held, and that and that they're in good standing, and your experience as an expert in this field in the state of New Jersey. Of course, I graduated with with a bachelor's from TCJ, the College of New Jersey in civil engineering. And um
I'm a licensed professional engineer in the state of New Jersey. My license is in good standing. I'm also a certified municipal engineer by the NJSME. I've been accepted into 50 land use boards across the state and provide the expert engineering testimony at each of these. The board accept Mr. Chan as an expert
of the field. This you've never testified before us? No, I'm in front of town. Okay. Any questions? No, we're good. Okay. So you accept them as an expert? I accept we accept them as an expert. All right. So Aaron, why don't we start with existing conditions on the site and then we can get into the proposed site
plan. Sure. Yeah. To aid in that discussion, if I make up the aerial exhibit. Do do you have a larger copy of that? I do. Okay. Just cuz the hard copies will be marked as exhibits for the board. Do you want us to also put it on the easel? Yeah. If you have a large one, put that
on as demonstrative evidence and we'll take the small one and have that marked to be board file. Sure. Yeah. And I'll still put on the TVs. Okay. Since we don't have anybody in the audience, we could just face it towards you. Yeah.
[Music] So John will mark this as A1. Yeah. So which one which one is this? You have this sheet. This is aerial exhibit one of two. Yes. What I put on the easel is titled aerial exhibit project area one of two.
It's a two sheet exhibit set prepared. Hold on. The second sheet has its own exhibit number on it. So, let's make sheet one of two exhibit A1 and let's make sheet two of two exhibit A2. That That's fine. And we'll mark it now.
Right. Okay. No problem. Um, so exhibit, if you may flip to exhibit A2, probably better to do the overall shopping center the next sheet, please. So again, what you're seeing, um, no, the second sheet of the first
document, please. Which one? Um, the aerial exhibit and then flip to the second. Yep. Perfect. So, this project again, it's a Rarin Town Square Shopping Center. Um, I think Mr. Tubal has already indicated, but it's it's fronting on Route 31 and also also
Walter Floren. in within the shopping center, you have Lowe's, you have Longhorn, and then we're immediately adjacent to the the PetSmart. Um the entire shopping center, I believe based on the SP 668PF overall is developed, that entire
property is 68.9 acres with 54.6% impervious coverage. You got you got to slow it down. Sure. 58.9 acres. And what's the impervious? 68.9 acres with 54.6% 6%
of impervious coverage. The F is.16 where 0.24 is permitted. If you don't mind flipping back to the first sheet. So going back to A1. So back on to A1 again. This is the um
the the pad ready site immediately west of the pets smart. Uh the access, you know, that's closest to this pad is the right in right out driveway on Route 31. And I just want to maybe quickly go over the previously approved building L. That
was the 3,800 square foot service building that was under SP 609 PF. Um the impervious coverage exhibit, please. Sorry. So impervious coverage. So we'll mark this as A3
and this is the impervious coverage exhibit prepared by Stonefield Engineering and Design. Just Eric, if you could identify it and indicate who prepared it. Sure. Yep. Prepared by my firm Stonefield Engineering dated September
15th, 2025. What this exhibit is is showing on the left hand side of the sheet the previously approved building which was again the 3,800 square foot service building with um two drive-thru lanes and then on the right hand side of the
page you'll see our proposed site plan. So I'll kind of go into that in a little bit more detail but um we're essentially working with the same pad area. It's about half acre in the in its island. And the this was previously approved with a much building much larger
building than what we're um proposing here. So about five times the size and the same two drive-thru lanes. And the previously approved plan has a 12,610 square ft of impervious garbage. So if you may go to the site plan rendering.
So we'll mark this as A4. and and Aaron, if you could just identify this exhibit and indicate who prepared it. So, John, this is uh is the site plan overall rendering exhibit. That's right. Yeah. Site plan overall rendering exhibit.
A4. You want to mark the other sheet is A5. It's one of two. Now, then the other one's going to be A5. You have each of these. Whoever prepared these exhibits prepared with an exhibit stamp on it. So, let's just use the exhibit stamp. And the the last one will be A5.
Okay. By the way, whoever prepared these exhibits, they're very nice exhibits. All right. Great. Okay. So, yeah. Sure. Yeah. A4 is the overall rendered site plan. Again, you're seeing the
entire most of the shopping center that's uh relevant to our proposed seven brew. And I'll flip to A5, which is a little bit zoomed in. So day five once again is a little bit more zoomed in for the proposed seven brew
project. We took the liberty of adding you know color to this and also the proposed landscaping that way it's a clear and clean visual for the board. And what it is we're proposing once again is that 510 square foot building
with a 260 square foot um refrigeration shed. There's a metal canopy that ties both of those structures together forming one cohesive unit. Um the drive-through component and I believe there's there's some discussion in regards to the use variance but we
are fully conforming with the bulk requirements. How many square feet is that cooler 260? So the proposal is fully conforming with the bulk requirements fully compliant with the front yard setback from both frontages. the it's located 172 feet
from route 31 and approximately 300 feet from the county roadway. It complies with the F of uh24 with a proposed.16. It also complies with the impervious coverage of 55% where our proposal is at
54.63. from the previously shown um 3,800t building, you know, we are slightly increasing the impervious coverage by 16 70 ft. So 1,670 ft. The main feature of any drive-through use, as you know, is the
drive-through lanes on the inner lane and the outer lane. That combines to a total of 22 car queuing capacity. It's going to operate in a counterclockwise manner and actually exceeds the typical corporate standard of 18 to 20 vehicles
within their car through stack. So within their inventory they have 500 stands across the country typically 18 to 20. On this site we're able to achieve 22 cars. Um compared to you know typical Duncan typical Starbucks you
know Duncan you see 8 to 12 vehicles in their stack. Starbucks. The newer ones have 12 to 15. And you'll hear more from our traffic engineer and we we've alluded to this as well. Given that the menu of the beverages is limited and there's only a grab and go, you know,
prepackaged muffin top. The the prep time is very quick. It's very focused. There's no um mobile ordering. So, it's all streamlined under the same same u mode of operation there. So, what's the number of vehicles stacking? 22. 22. The lanes themselves, you heard that
the employees are working within the lanes. So, the lane width is slightly oversized. They're 12.5 ft wide. On the interior side, adjacent to lane one, there's a sidewalk that's along the interior side. And between lane one and lane two, there is a two-foot striped
gore area that allows the employees some safe space to to work within. So between the slightly wider lane and also some of the um um accommodations provided, it's safer for the employees to be active within the line and they're guiding the cars to inch up um after they place
their order. So again, the as you as a a customer pull up into the lane, they're instructed by the employees to place their order via a tablet. And then as they complete the loop and get to the walkout sliding door area, the employees
walk out with their drinks and hand it back to the customers within their cars. Just a quickie. So there's another May 5th memo, a zoning relief memo prepared by Stonefield
and it lists the relief that's needed. So I just want you to confirm that that's the relief needed. Just for the record, amend the use variance instead of for a drive-thru use not permitted for a fast food restaurant use not per
that's fine. So we we can I just have you don't have to read all the details. I'm sure someone else is going to get into that but just have him confirm that the relief set forth on the May 5th zoning relief memo is the relief that you see tonight besides during a final segment. Okay. So Aaron, you just want to just
just just confirm that for John. Sure. Yes, there is a zoning relief uh memorandum prepared by Stonefield Engineering that's dated May 5th, 2025. It lists the zoning relief that we're seeking. Um we spoke about the fast food restaurant being the use variance. The
signage I'll touch on in detail a little bit later on. I believe the board planners letter actually calls out some additional um number of signs that should be included as far as the facade wall signs. So for the record, I think uh on the memo we have four shown. It's
actually a total of seven includes some directional signage to point to the direction of uh vehicular traffic flow. And similarly, we have to add that area for the U aggregate wall sign area for the proposal. On the memo, it's 99.7
square feet. Let me grab my notes. So, inclusive of the directional sign, it'll be 122.8 square ft in total. 122.1 8. Okay. And then the last variance was the drive aisle width adjacent to 60°ree parking
of uh required is 18 ft where our proposed is only including one of those lanes 12.5 ft as I was previously testifying to. Thank you. Go back to where you were. Okay.
Sure. So in this in this layout, you're also seeing that we provided a bypass and the escape lane on the second half of the queue. So starting at about the 12:00 position and the um going down to the the 9:00 position, you have that
bypass lane. And then at the top at the top leftand corner of the pad, you also have the existing curb cut that's already there on that pad that allows for an escape lane out back into the drive aisle into the shopping center as well. And um if it is ever needed,
they also have the flexibility to use that bypass area for additional stacking if needed. Um, and that area allows for another additional 12 cars to be within the the vehicular stack before there's any kind of backup into the shopping center.
The overall parking count that was required under the previous approval was a total of 1973. So,,973 spaces which accounted for that 3,800 ft uh building L.
Currently, there's 2,98 spaces on site and that yields a surplus of 115 spaces. With the seven brew project, that 3,800t building is being reduced to a 770T building. So, a 3000 a 3,50T reduction.
The number of parking spaces that's required drops by 12 to a total of 1961. So the proposed number of parking spaces with our project comes to 283 spaces. So a surplus of 122 spaces. This
leaves the project with a comfortable um parking scenario. As you heard, 7 Brew has no interior seats. The customers do not get out of their vehicles. It's really only the employees that we'll need to um provide parking for. Again, the max shift has the highest number of employees at eight, which they can
readily park at any of the parking spaces that's adjacent um to our to our pad. I tend to think they'll probably park on the plan west up along the route 3031 frontage there. Loading again is set to occur during off peak times. It can happen in the um pass
through lane in this particular layout given that we have the escape lane and they can also leave the site at the 6:00 position out of the um the the pickup area. Access to the site we're not changing. Um it's all the same existing driveways to the shopping center as it
exists today. It's the right in right out driveway that's closest on the left hand side of this page from 31 and the Walter Floren's also a right in right out on that particular frontage. There's a small raised uh median island there at that at that particular driveway. We
obtained the letter of no interest from the NJ DOT. We've also obtained a unconditional approval from the county and our traffic engineer will speak a little bit more to to both of these. Overall, the proposed site plan is being presented. It is it is similar to the
previous building L as far as, you know, having the building much smaller, but it's more focused on the drive-through component. And this site as design does allow for a quick and efficient operation and focusing again on the drive-thru concept, drive-through only concept, you know, that's primarily in
beverages and spilling out the last and opened uh pad on this particular shopping center. I'll speak to the landscaping briefly. So, the landscaping proposed on site, you're you're seeing, you know, the the colorized version of it. There's four deciduous and flowering trees. There's a
total of nine evergreen trees on this small pad. 34 shrubs proposed. The trash enclosure is fully screened by some of those evergreens. The landscaping scheme here is intended to provide evergreen screening for the trash and shrubbery along the drive-through lane to kind of
break up the u some of the drive up lanes there. It's for aesthetic enhancement on on the pad as well as providing some seasonal color interest in the way of the flowering trees. I think you can see on the right hand side lighting. Uh we're relocating a handful of the poles that's uh one pole actually
on by the trash enclosure. The current mounting height for the light poles that already exist on site is 25 ft. Our proposed building height is 19.7. So that pole is uh 25 and that's the existing pole that we're relocating.
And then there set of, you know, down lights within underneath the canopy as well as a couple wall lights on the building itself. Um, generally it's one to three for candles through the drive-through lanes. Average 2.5 for candles. There's no light uh light trespass given how far set back we are
from the from the property line as well as the frontage. There's no light trespass of anything like that with our proposed light uh uh lighting scheme. Aaron, just just while you were on landscaping, you reviewed the board landscape architect's memo dated 91525. That's correct.
All right. Can you just speak to the comments set forth in that letter? Sure. What the board does is if you agree that a comment should be a condition, all you got to say is I I agree. The only things you have to talk about are things you don't agree with or something you want to clarify.
Yes, we're okay. We're good with complying with the comments within the landscape uh reviewers memo. Okay. All right. So, please continue. Sure. So, I'll pull up the architecture of the building next. I have a Sure. You have a location. Do you have any
photographs of what? Yes, that's next. Yep. Perfect segue. Microphone, please. Also, what what did he ask? If he if he has any if if he has elevations of the building. That's what we were going to. Okay. Before you move on, uh it's a
circulation question. Sure. Um, the dumpster is located to the rear of the property. So, I'm assuming employees coming out of the building are going to have to walk across the traffic lane to make access to the dumpster.
Is um are the curb cuts such that they can push a roll rolling cart there? And from a traffic safety perspective, I'll ask our traffic consultant if possibly a a cross a hatch crosswalk should be put
across that area. So when a person starts out like they don't get run over. I I won't say they won't get run over, but it provides more safety and protection and guidance so that people are aware that there is potentially a sidewalk. Sure. Yeah. I do do want to make make
note of it. We did design it so there are curb cuts. So, you know, if employee had a rolling dumpster, they don't have to jump the curb effectively. There's a the sidewalk path leading from the building out to the curb cut across the asphalt area and then there's another sidewalk that's a curb cut leading to
the the trash enclosure area. As far as um you know, the employee being in the drive lanes, there's already employees in the drive lanes working the line. So, they're actually able to facilitate that mode. If there's a warrant for the crosswalk, we can certainly put that in.
It's not a not a big concern. Jay, I'll Jay, do you, our traffic engineer, I'd like just your thoughts on I I guess I would just ask how many times a day would we think we'd have a
pedestrian carrying trash? And would that be during off- peak hours when there's Can I have that? Can I have Mr. Ross cam answer that just cuz he's probably the better person to answer that question. Yeah. So during the 16 and a half proxy hours
that we have it's usually about five four or five times a day on average. And Zach I think Mr. Traman asked that that occurs during um off peak times. You're not taking the trash out when you're as when you're very busy. Correct. Okay. Okay. You mean Okay. But not off peak
hours from being closed. Just off peak hours when you're not real busy. That's correct. Okay. Then one more question on relief. So I wrote down additional signage variance for Jeff Zacharella's memo.
We'll get into that later. And you also need do you agree that you need the three exceptions or so-called waiverss that the township engineer in his September 15th memo points out is item six, seven, and eight.
I think just for the record too for six and eight we wouldn't be looking for waiverss. We wouldn't be um typically I can't hear you. Sorry. Uh number six and eight we would not be supporting a waiver. We would we'd ask that um the applicant comply with the township standard. Number six being a
raised crosswalk especially coming off the intersection there at Route 31. And then for item number eight that's just talking about the the pave cross section. Okay. So six and eight we will comply. I think that's what Mr. McCarthy was asking. Yeah. So that would be those would be removed.
And what about number seven? Yeah. So So number seven, John, the the building there's a requirement in the ordinance, I believe, that the height of the Vipole can't be higher than the structure. So we're proposing a 25 ft um
light where 19 where the building's 19.7, but the light matches the rest of the shopping cent's height. So we would ask for that exception for that reason. Both engineer and landscape architect, you support those exceptions. Yes. Yes. Okay. And I suppose you support them
because enforcing the ordinance for no reason other than enforcement is not prudent and in this case it's prudent to grant those exceptions. Yes. Okay. Thanks. I have one more question relative to this. Is the outdoor cooler considered
outside storage? it it's it's not outside. It's enclosed in a structure. It's not it's not like you can't see it. It's visibly completely enclosed and attached to the building. My suggestion is show the elevation. We'll show Yeah, that's a good point. We will show it on the elevation so you
could see how it's completely part on the elevation then ask the question. Yeah. Thank you. If we're if we're on the topic of waiverss, I just want to quickly point out another one. So, um, from our letter dated September 15th on page six of seven for the landscape and lighting
comments, it's number 40. Um, the town and this is something that has come up before this board. The township has requirements in there regarding the minimum and maximum foot candles as well as a ratio. I believe the ratio is 4:1 for the maximum to the minimum. Um, I
didn't see that on the lighting plan and if we're not going to comply, we would we would need to request a waiver for that as well. Okay. So, who someone on your team is going to have to say whether you can comply? I'm going to have Aaron do it right now. Yep. Yeah. So, we spoke about the
maximum height of the pole exceeding the proposed building. Right. So, we're not on number seven. We're on number four. Understood. Understood. Going through the um the lighting ordinance section. So under 29675G, yeah, we can comply with the with the
requirements within that particular section I referenced. Okay. Okay. So we're going that's going to be a condition. Okay. Okay. So the only exception from the engineers memo is going to be item number seven ordinance section 296 75G
PN 3 NPN PN C N PN that's correct board engineering expert and the board landscape architectural expert both support that exception yes okay all right so can we go to the elevations is that okay madam chair is
that okay So Aaron, let's go to the elevations of the building. Was that a previously Was that submitted? It was previously submitted. Yes. No. No. This is This is not an exhibit. You're right. It's It's part of what was originally submitted,
right? The architectural should be We should have digital copies of it. Yeah, we do. And you should have paper copies of them, right? Yeah. And it looks like the color elevations are A2.1 and A2.2. That is correct.
It's on the No, no, no. The architecturals are on the large one. Yep. You got the right one up there now. The small 8 by10s were copies of the exhibits that they submitted tonight. They submitted them
ahead of time. You have it. Yeah. I say that there were two packets they provided. The smaller packet has the pictures, the visuals. That's all I'm saying. Okay. All right. All right. So, let's
speak to A2.1 which is the elevation and also Aaron indicate what side that's facing within this within the shopping center. Sure. Yeah. So, this is the architectural sheet uh A2.1. This is you're seeing the front facade that's
facing Walter Floren. Um that's the front of the building. And then the bottom image is the rear of the building. And what you're seeing is um again that 510 foot building. The materials and colors, the materials that's utilized is a nichiha board
finish. So it's a fiber cement board for it's highly durable and the color palette is a dark brick faux brick finish on the base um along all the way along the building. And then on the top side of the building is a lighter grayish uh light wash brick.
Just to clarify, you said this is not brick. This is a faux brick finish. Fake brick. Faux brick. F Ax. Fake rick. Correct. Right. Yes. Yes. Yeah. The the material is a fiber cement or nijiha. Okay. Okay. So on that front elevation you're
seeing uh the the medallion logo sign. It's 6t diameter circle and that particular square footage is 28.3. And then at the bottom of the sign you're seeing the chevron arrows as we previously spoke about. that indicates
the direction of travel for a motorist looking to enter the queue. And that's 7.7 square feet. The text that the at the bottom of the arrow says drive-thru coffee with the three arrows. If you flip to the next sheet
Oh, just while you're up there, hold on before we do that. Um, there was a question about what the cooler looks like, and I think this is the best view of it. So, can you just describe that, Aaron? Sure. Yeah, the 260q foot cooler is the structure on the top right hand side of
the page and it's it features the same materials and color scheme as the proposed principal building. The whole thing is tied together with that metal canopy that forms one cohesive structure. In the next sheet, you'll see the side elevation about how the entire
point is the core is inside. That's correct. Yes, you won't see the core. Question. Can I just ask our planner in your opinion is this one building or two buildings? It's one It's one because the canopy connects the two. Yeah. And we did talk about that at the beginning when we
first Is there any reason why the why there is a separation in the building? Sure. Yeah. The the buildings itself is actually pre-fabricated. It gets shipped to the site about 80% complete. Sometimes if they can pull the signage permit prior to they'll actually install
the signage, the HVAC is already on the building as well. And what that allows for is the construction periods actually being very truncated and minimized to limit and reduce the amount of site disturbance to the shortest amount possible. So I believe the Turnersville site, they're being done in about 3
months and and under, which is quite significant. And those three um the principal building, the the refrigeration shed, and then the metal canopy, it gets shipped to the site on tractor trailers. And it gets craned into into its uh
proposed location. So, Whoops. Thank you, Donna. Thank you. The um cooler building, does that have air conditioning and heating? It's refrigerated. I don't think it has heating.
Okay. I was I think that's um kind of interesting. But the other uh main building will be for the employees have both heat and cooling. That's correct. Okay. Thanks. Okay. All right. So, I just wanted to explain and answer that question. So, let's flip now. Is it A2.2?
Correct. Okay. So, Aid 2.2, you're seeing the side elevations of the building on the top side of the page. That's uh the cooler structure. Again, featuring the same, you know, colors, the materials, all
matches the principal building. It's all strung together by the metal canopy, the blue metal canopy to form one cohesive structure. And then on the bottom elevation, that's the pickup side. So, you're seeing in white the two sets of sliding doors. And that's the the crit
critical piece to this that allows for the employees to walk out of the building with the prepared beverages and deliver it to the customers vehicles. The signage on these elevations, I'll describe the seven brew um text sign
that is 31.8 square ft with um again the chevron arrows in that maroon color. That's 7.7. It's the same size as the other one. And again, so counting everything out, all the signage proposed on this building, it comes to a total of seven signs with the aggregate of 122.8
square feet. So you have signage on every single side of your building except the rear. Correct. And the reason for that in this particular arrangement is is due to the fact that the building is set back so far from the frontage. Do feel that you know being a very small building a lot
of the times you can identify sites by the massing of the building. The building itself is 510 square ft. So we feel that having signage on different sides of it that calls for the brand neck recognition is very helpful to the brand and also the fact that it's a new
new chain in in this particular part of the country feel that it's a it's helpful for establishing their brand and also Darren on route 31 this it's so heavily landscaped and there's a there's a burm is that correct? Yes that's correct. along the route 31 frontage, there is a slight burm and as
well as landscaping on top of it. So, we feel that signage posted on the top of the building allows for us to kind of peek through that that BM. You think you think you're going to be able to see that from 31? I think so. And also the uh we're also allotted one um tenant panel on the
overall shopping center sign as well that will help identify on the driveway. Correct. My question is um you still feel it's necessary. I mean, your building is pretty unique. Yes, I agree. And and the roof itself will identify your brand,
which is that you can see easier with the blue and the curve and everything. So I I guess just to to cut just to cut to the chase, do you feel that there's a are you concerned with the number of signs that are proposed? Yeah, I I think we have to be because uh I know we've
had other applicants that have asked for uh what I think what she's concerned with. There's got to be some really good reason. Yeah. So here because if there's not everyone and their brother is going to citing this as a reason why they should.
So what I was trying to get and what Aaron and I were trying to convey is it won't be that visible from 31. So when you get into the site, the signage will be the first thing that directs you to where the front is, to where the building is. So for vehicular circulation, it it helps identify the
building a little bit easier so that people know where they're going. Correct. Yeah, that's correct. Our our view of this is that the way finding to the driveways is going to be mostly identified by the panels on the in, you know, entire shopping center. I'm sure most know you know this shopping center.
And then once you're on the site, seeing the building, seeing the branding will help, you know, safe way finding to this particular path. You are proposing a different directionary for Walter Fen. You're you're proposing an additional directory sign that you
you won't be able to necessarily see the the Wait, wait, wait. I'm sorry. Wait, wait, wait, wait. So, we have we have the sign in the panel in the drive from Walter Fran. You're saying there's going to be another sign directing it to to go left past
You can see You can see that panel from this piece of property. You can I'm confused why you're saying there's going to be another sign. You That's what they're proposing. I'm not saying it's it's it's necessary, but Yeah. You know what? You know what I
think is better? Erin, can you go back to the site plan right now? Sure. Just so you could see where where they all are. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard on the elevation, which is on the elevation. It's nice to see what they look like. Okay. So, Aaron, I Yeah. Can you use Oh, maybe maybe Terra can use the mouse.
Before he does that, these architectural drawings that were up on the screen, do they have a a date on them or a last revised date? I didn't see one. Um [Music] the dates where
the dates on A1.1ch right underneath the uh March 20. So the date is on on A1.1 only. It's March 27, 2020. Sorry, it's only on the floor. Sorry about Yeah. So don't just mark them all the same. So right
Aaron, if you could show the other picture. Sure. Because you can't see the the FAT fan entrance. You can get up and show. Yeah. So he can point. Yeah.
Okay. So where that film is? Listen, since there's no one in the audience, bring the thing right up. Okay. Bring it right up to the board. So where and Jason? So right here. Okay. Right where that building is. You see where the driveway
is? Okay. You can see that driveway sign in that building. It's only parking lot between them. That diagonal. That's right. Nothing else. That diagonal is that sign right there. So just guys, just remember court
stenographers trying to take this down. One person speaks at a time. We don't normally do things like this, but on this one we know in the audience is the way to do it. How about this? Let me just have Aaron walk through. Yeah. All the signs are good idea. And then if you have a concern,
I mean, if there was trees or something in the way, I'd say. No, that's just [Music] And then the current driveway loud so your reporter can hear. Yeah.
course. So the the shopping center overall sign that we get a force pan on right the directional sign that we have all it says seven is the coffee that points to the start entrance. So it's just a small
four sign. So it's a direction. Isn't there an entrance? There any other signs along 31? Along 31 is the four square foot panel again on the um overall shopping center pylon site. So So just to be clear, there's a four
square foot seven room on this on the pylon on the county road. Correct. a seven a four square foot sign on the on the pylon on route 31. Correct. And then a four square foot directional sign that says drive-thru and with a
with an arrow. That's correct. Yeah. Okay. And and the intention and the design for that sign is to lead motorist to the start of the drive-through lane. Okay. Okay. That's there might be a reason. Okay. All right. Now, after hearing all that, does
anyone have any questions on any of the particular signs? I think they're absorbing it. Fine. No, I thought it'd be better to talk it through that way. Good idea. No, I would just say that if I if I can. I've I've lived in the township since
1981 and I've driven through this complex many many times and wayfinding signs in that complex are absolutely necessary because there's no logic in my opinion to how the driveways or the the what do you call it the the lanes the
you're saying you think this is a good idea. You're saying yes the wall signage in this particular case is really acting as wayfinding sign. Yes. because it's very difficult to navigate your way through unless you know where you're going. Does anyone disagree with what he just said? No, I actually I I actually agree with
James. The other thing is the drive-thru sign for your business is really a drive-thru business. It you almost need it because it tells them like where to go. And just being at the the one in
Auburn, I kind of wish they had a a a sign that kind of directed you to where the drive-thru was. I think based on the confusion that's already there and the fact that this is a drive-thru business, it's almost necessary.
Okay, that's fine. I just I just was there tonight and I was sitting there and I'm like, "Okay, you can see this. You can see those that Walter sign of Walter Friend." I'm like, "Yeah, the other the other thing that I see is that rear access point."
Yeah. People could get really gummed up and gum the works up by trying to come in there and circulate by so by I think by having the original the additional arrows on the building hopefully they'll come to the front of the building and go in the right way.
That's fine. So that that's you know that's so that that would be so a follow-up question would be is there any is that rear driveway meant to be one way out or twoway direction?
It would be one way out only. We'll propose um pavement markings that says do not enter as well as signage that says MUTCD signage that says do not enter. Okay. Because I assume then that your planner will be making a C2
argument for all the signage on the basis of traffic safety under purpose H. John. No, no, purpose A. Oh, okay. Look at you. Traffic safety A. Okay. Okay. Thank you. That's my assumption. Okay.
All right. Question. Sure. Just just that we're on uh signage. Are there any other temporary signage that's going to be proposed like feather flags or any any other thing? No feather flags. Okay. Yeah, that's that's good because just so you know, they don't like feather flags.
Wait, I thought that was Was that in your report? I read feathered flags somewhere. Yeah. I just wanted to know if they were going to propose one or two or any other. The client says no. Okay. Okay. All right. And before Aaron concludes, just Aaron, can you just speak to compliance with the review letters?
Sure. the um ERRI letter dated um September 15th, 2025. Um the McDonald and Ray we'll get to with traffic. Um and then the go one by one. Is there anything in any of the
comments in the engineering memo dated September 15, 2025 that you don't agree to have made conditions? Other than we already know item seven is going to be an exception, but you have a do you have any issue with any of the other numbered comments
becoming conditions? No issue. Can I ask a question about number eight on his report on Ryan's report? Yeah, they said they're going to comply under waiverss. That's the one you were talking about. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Okay. All right. And then moving on to the September 12th
2025. Oh, sorry. Before we jump through, I I did have I just went through and highlighted some areas where we're looking for testimony, just some discussion. So, I just want to quickly just run through them just so that way during resolution compliance if we get there, I can just check off provided. So,
uh for item number 10, um we're just trying to make sure that when this is under construction, it sounds like it's going to be a relatively quick construction. Um that there won't be any issues with site circulation as opposed to the construction and the rest of the site. and if there are that you're going to provide necessary safety measures,
things of that nature. Yeah, we'll work with your office and the building department on that. Sure. Perfect. Uh we did have a couple questions just because this property is on different lots. I think it was just a little bit confusing as far as who owns which portion, how crossax uh easements.
We are just we are just leasing this. So whatever access points are in place now, whatever easements will remain. Okay. I think I don't know what it is before just because I know that this site is very large uh and it's been around for quite some time. We just
wanted to make sure again just because it is on separate lots if there are easements there like the I know that the trash enclosure is technically on a separate lot. We just want to make sure those are the same owners. The only lot that's separate is that uh I think where the basin is which is owned by the
township actually but I think the only thing that's there is is storm water and and grass area. Okay. So, there's no reason to traverse that area. Yeah. Then there's there's an I know that there's an easement going off to Miniac if you're if that's that's the lot you're
Nothing will change is my point because we're just we're just leasing. We're not buying. Okay. Okay. That works. Cross. Uh just testimony regarding the existing site conditions, the the pave surface, sidewall curving, landscaping, and just
just in this area. We're not looking for the entire site. So, I know that it is currently paved. You can kind of see now on this on this exhibit. So, just what the status or what the condition of the existing uh infrastructure. What item are you on? That is item number 17. Sorry. Okay. Cuz I 10 through 14. I've just put
checks on them. They're not condition. Yep. Okay. And now 15. I'm putting a check. Okay. You already discussed 16. So, now you're on 17. Yes. Okay. Sure. So, I had an opportunity to visit this particular portion of the property
just this uh this evening. You know, generally the pavement I'll categorize as fair. There's some cracks that has been seal coated. The current pad itself is, you know, pretty much a lawn area. Um there are some, you know, bits and uh pieces of curb that could be repaired
and uh our proposed plan here more or less seeks to, you know, full depth pave um the entirety of our drive-thru queue. And then um there's some milling overlay areas that extends into the the drive aisles. So more or less um you know
there's there's going to be a uh you know overhaul of that particular area and then we'll tie into the existing curb where we can. If there's spot repairs that's necessary, we're going to do so as well and we can work with your construction office and your inspectors to do that.
Perfect. Uh item number 19, I don't know if we testified to this yet. It's the ADA parking space that is behind the uh the circulation. I don't know, Jay, if you wanted to I saw in your letter, too. I think we're going to hear some testimony from the traffic engineer on
the operation of that space. Uh, from what I understand, it's kind of a unique situation since they don't have customers coming and parking and walking into the building. I believe it is there
in case they had an employee with an ADA placard, but we can hear that testimony. Correct. Yes, we'll have the the traffic engineer address it, too. Can we can we just go back to 16 real quick? I know that you're the testimony is that um there's not going to be any mobile
orders or anything like that. My question is just so it's addressed, is there any plan in the future to have mobile orders or Uber Eats or anything like that? Yes. So the answer is no. And if that were a condition that were to change for
whatever reason and the board makes it a condition, we'd have to come back to the board. Yeah, I already wrote down a condition. No mobile order such as Door Dash or Uber Eats. So if they want to do that, they have to come back. Okay. Okay. Okay. Uh item 21B, just technicality because it says discuss. Um
just because there is the overhang, um I'm assuming there'll be some kind of signage or striping on the actual overhang that limits the the vehicle height that would go through. Yes. Perfect. Okay. Uh one thing that I did have, so item number 25, there's a stem wall that is identified on the plan. I
wasn't entirely sure what that was. I just wanted to see what the purpose of it was. Yeah, the the stem wall uh notation on the grading plan is uh really for construction. So, as I previously described, the buildings get craned and dropped off on site. So, that stem wall is to denote the elevation of
the foundation pad that gets built prior to the building drop off. So, it's purely for our construction, not really related to site plan and land use. Okay. Uh item number 29, looking for testimony with the existing storm water facilities on site and in particular in
in this area. area. I know that there's a couple inlets that exist now that are being tied into and uh I think we're asking as a condition of approval, we just televised the storm water pipes in that area. We don't have to do a full in-depth analysis of the entire site, but just to make sure just in proximity what you're tying into that there aren't
any concerns. We can agree to do so. Great. And then item number 36 under the stormwater management comments. Um if there's an operations and maintenance manual if that was on file deed restriction just because I know again
the property is from quite some time ago before the the overall rule. So just making sure that the the applicant or at this case the landowner would be responsible for the future maintenance and current maintenance of any of the storm water on site. So, just if if that was either recorded yet, uh if it's not,
we would recommend that it is. Just wanted to see if just some testimony, I guess, just what it is now. And what number are you on? 36. Item 36. Yeah, we could comply with that. I'm sure with the size of uh this particular development, there was already a storm
water maintenance manual that has been recorded and uh you know our our site is relatively less than 1% of the entire piece, but it it'll be on the landlord to to maintain the storm water basins on site. Okay, that's everything I have.
Okay, for my purposes, does are you guys looking for a condition on here or not? Yeah, I think we just we weren't sure if it was there or not. Um if it I think we could just make it a condition instead of having to testify to say whether or not it is in place. We
should say if it's not in place, it will be. If it is in place, submitted. Yes. Can I just ask a silly question on that issue? Sure. But if the regs have changed since the last time since it originally was approved, would the same requirements for recording the manuals and all that
stuff have been in place at that time? No. And that's where we get into a weird area. Um, so the site has received site plan approval already, so you're not subject to the current rules, right? Um, the operations and maintenance manual, that one I think we could we
could be flexible about. I think we would just look for it for um because this project does meet the minor development under the township ordinance standards, not the state standard. Okay. We just developed something for that. I think either we're going to do a dry well or some kind of Okay, that's fine. I just wanted to make sure we weren't
reverting back to something that wasn't required at certain point. No. When was the underlying when did the planning board grant final? 2005. That was the original. There were subsequent amendments for certain things, but the original development was in 2005.
Latest 20. The latest amendment was 2018. Yeah. Give me somebody. What was that amendment? 2018. That was the residential buildings for Raron. Okay.
Okay. Sorry. Go ahead, M. That's everything. Okay. Okay. And then um going to the um the memo prepared by Mr. Vakarella dated September 12th, 2025. Aaron, can you just speak to that if there's whatever is under your purview? Can you speak to
those items? Sure. We don't have any issues complying with the comments within the letter. Great. Jeff, what is the uh ordinance for the hours of operation? I know we we don't do 24 hours. Um, is there is 5:30 okay
in the morning? I'm just just double checking. I assume it is. I know we've had some applications. Only certain zones have time limitations, not all of them. Does this zone have any time limitations?
[Music] During Flemington. Yeah, that's fine. And then John, I don't know. Do you want us to speak to the ancillary letters from like the various agent departments within the town, too? They were they were attached to Jeff's memo.
Yeah. Yeah. That's So So I got the answers. It's It's under section 296-118 M. Hours of operation. All uses shall be enclosed to the general public from 2:00 a.m. to 5:00 a.m. of every day except
uses within 200 ft of the residential buildings shall limit hours of operation to 12:00 a.m. to 5:00 a.m. So okay, so their hours are fine. Yes. Yep. Thank you, Jeff.
Okay. So attached to Jeff me. Yeah. Yeah, there were review. Right. So, I just wanted to make sure we just to go back. So, you're complying with um 24 A through E the inspections
that were noted. They're going to have to Yeah. What I was Yeah. What I was going to say, approve. Yeah, Jeeoff, I can't speak to whether they're in compliance or not, but what I could say is we'll we'll have to resolve these with your office one way or the
other if you find if you think there's an issue. So, we'll have to call the landlord. There's a representative um and we're going to have to have them get in touch with you and figure it out to your satisfaction is basically what we're going to have to do. Okay. All right. And then any other comments that refer to the previous plan
or any revisions you you agree just agree? Okay. Yes, we agree. Okay. And then um Okay. And then the next one was the environmental commission memo. Um I just wanted just a clarification there. We're
not going to do a rain garden, but I believe Aaron, you indicated you would work with the board engineer to do the dry well and some sort of swell on site um in in the spirit of addressing this comment. Yes, that's correct. Hold on. I need I understand. All right. So Aaron just
speak to Yeah, of course. So environmental commission's letter 722 the first comment is roof leaders being connected do not want to be connected uh directly to the storm system and there was a comment within er's letter in the storm
water section that refers that makes a recommendation to do a proposed dry well that connects our roof runoff into and we will complied to do that dry well system. What you're saying is you've already agreed to the engineers
solution, so you're not agreeing to the environmental commission's comment. That's a fair way to say it. Correct. That's correct. So, we're crossing that one out. Okay. Yep. Anyone on the board have a problem with that? Can I ask you to move? Just just to clarify, they they are kind of they're agreeing to do both that
the roof leaders not tying directly to the storm water system. They would go to a drywall which then discharge into the storm water system. kind of staying in the spirit of what the town's ordinance is for storm water requirements. So, it's yes to our comment and yes to the environmental commission comment number
one. They say yes. Oh, okay. I I I forgot the ring guard part. So, never mind. It's yes to your comment. Yes. Yes. Yes. Sorry for the confusion. Yes. Correct. and and that would be no to my comment
number two then because I basically had a comment that I said I supported the environmental commission's request for a rain garden and perhaps it could be I'm not sure what the swale was but it's perhaps it could be something that would be
incorporated into that traffic island next to the rip wrap if that's not feasible I understand it but if they agreed to do what you've asked for in number do. They've agreed to do what Ryan has asked for in his memo. There's no need to complicate things by
me putting in the environmental commission's comment number one because I can guarantee if I do there's going to be Yeah, you mean comment number two, but yes, comment number two. Yes. So, number two covers the environmental commission. Correct. So, I'm I'm crossing out the
Environmental Commission not because people don't agree with the Environmental Commission, but because they're agreeing to comment Ryan's report and a comment in John's report that basically does these things. Yeah. Yes. Okay. All right. And then the next one
is the fire department letter um fire marshall, excuse me, dated July 2nd, 2025. And we will comply with that. Correct. Yes. And then John, there was um additional
memos or just um you know checklist from the RTMUA. They just find it acceptable. There were no comments. And then the non-residential development fee uh from the tax assessor which we have to comply with at state law.
That was it. Sorry. I just want to make sure we got that on the record. And that concludes um directive Mr. Chan. Oh, sorry. I have one more question for him if you don't mind. Sure. Of course. Um I had seen online I looked up the seven brew and I see that you have a
design that the metal canopy is straight. Um, and I saw online, so I'm just asking, they seem to be at an angle, not as steep as the roof was, but as a a
type of arc, and so I'm just asking, yours look completely straight. Is that true? They they will be completely Yeah, I think we flip back on A2.2, which is the side elevation for the proposed building. The canopy is straight. There is that arch element in the tower portion of the building.
That's sort of the the the look. Um but yeah, that can be strict. Yes. Okay. Thank you. That's why I asked for the date on the architectural plans because if you guys approve it, the conditions going to say it's got to be consistent with the architectural plans dated whatever date
with March 27, 2025 or something like that. Okay. And and I think if this is the end of his testimony, we should take a break. Cynthia, may I make one request based on something Donna brought up? Sure. Um, she she pointed me to that exit only driveway, which they're going
to do the proper striping and signage to control that, but I measured that and it's designed at 21 feet wide. I think it's too inviting for an inbound vehicle at 21 feet. Would you reduce that to 15 feet?
Yeah, 15 feet is acceptable. Thank you. Okay. Can you does that impact? I I have to understand what you're talking about. Or better yet, watch this. Here. Here's your report. Make me a condition. Just Just write it out.
Make me a condition. Write the bottom. Is that for delivery? Awesome. Then let me have my pen back. [Music] 10 minute break. Huh? 10 minute break. You take a 10-minute break. take a bio break and Jay can give me my condition.
Okay. All right. Take a break. Sure. 10 minutes. Yeah. Jim, ready? Okay. Calling the meeting back to order. All right. Um Madam Chair, our next um witness is our traffic engineer, Justine Fox with Stonefield Engineering. She's
been um sworn in. So Justine, if you can go also go through your qualifications for the record. um educational background, your license is held and experience testifying before similar sports in the state of New Jersey. Sure. Good evening everyone. Um I
received my bachelor's of science in civil and environmental engineering from the University of Maryland. I'm a licensed professional engineer in the state of New Jersey. My license is current and in good standing. That's right. Go Turpps. Um, I have over nine
years of experience um, in land use in the state of New Jersey. Um, and I've been accepted by about a dozen other boards throughout the state. Okay. Would the board accept Miss Fox as an expert in the field of traffic engineering? Yes, we will. Okay. Great. All right. So, Justine,
your office prepared the traffic impact study. Um, it was dated May 12th, 2025. Correct. Correct. All right. So, what I'd like you to do is hit the categories of that study, specifically trip generation, site circulation, which would involve queuing
as well as parking. Um, but why don't you describe some of the existing conditions as they relate to traffic first and then head into those categories? Sure. Um, so as discussed previously, this is this development will be located on out parcel of the Ryan Town Square
Shopping Center. The shopping center is located at the northeasterly um corner of New Jersey Route 31 and Walter Foreign Boulevard. Uh there are various driveways to the site with the clo with the overall site with the
closest being located um the westerly most right and right out driveway at Walter Foreign Boulevard that's across the street from the Costco driveway entrance and along route um 31 the southerntherly most right and right out
driveway that would lead you closest to where the parcel is located um adjacent to that PetSmart that's previously been mentioned. Right. And as part of the application, there's no proposal to change the access to the site. Correct. Okay. So, why don't you explain how you uh obtain the traffic volumes and the
trip generation as part of this application? Sure. Um, in terms of trip generation, we refer to it. That's the Institute of Transportation Engineers trip generation manual. For this, we looked at the specific use proposed here, which is a a
a drive-thru coffee shop with no indoor seating. Fine. Can you tell us what page you're on on your report so people can follow along? Sure. I'm on page five currently in the trip generation section. Um, so it does provide data on sites such as
what's proposed here specifically based on different criteria. You know, if it's a residential development, you would look at the number of units. In this case, we are actually looking at the number of lanes proposed for the drive-through development. So, for our
two-lane coffee shop with no indoor seating, we anticipate about per IT standards 90 trips in and out of the site during the busiest hours um of the development. So, that's going to be your weekday morning peak hour and then your
Saturday morning as well. Um, a trip here is considered any time a vehicle crosses both in and out of a driveway. So for your 90 trips for the development, what that's saying is you have about 45 vehicles entering and then
45 vehicles exiting the drive-thru. Um, in addition, it does publish data on what they on what they uh define as pass by trips. A pass by trip is what you would describe as a vehicle
that is on the roadway already but is visiting the site. So for example, this might be someone who is traveling along Route 31 on their way to work during the weekday morning. They are pulling off the state highway into the development, picking up their coffee, and then
returning to the roadway. for this use in particular. It um it anticipates that 90% of trips to this site are are comprised of that pass by
trips. So in terms of new trips, we're only expecting about, you know, less than 10 to the site. Um in addition, we looked at the Saturday Pass by trip rates for this development. Um, it does not publish pacify rates for
Saturday. However, um, bless you. Thank you. However, the NJ DOT um, HAPS program does publish rates on coffee shops with drive-thru. That's about 50% of trips on a Saturday morning are anticipated. So
for our trip generation of 90 vehicles, you're really looking at about 10 new trips on the weekday morning or about 40 trips, 45 trips on the Saturday midday. Where are you now in this report? I am now on page six. That was the table on page six.
Y okay. um for our development. I'm going to jump back to page three just to go over what um real life data we collected for this site. We specifically counted the uh performed
traffic counts at the two driveways closest to the out parcel here. So that would be the uh New Jersey Route 31 um site driveway, the one most southerntherly to um the site as well as
the Walter Foreign Boulevard site driveway. Um we then compared the traffic volumes on the road and grew them for an anticipated um future condition. In this case, we grew them for two years at about 2%.
um that's to capture any growth in the area for new developments. Um I believe specifically a residential development located across Walter um foreign boulevard adjacent to the Costco was brought to our attention. We did look at the traffic study and found that the
that their anticipated trips along our site driveway was very consistent with that growth factor we already applied. Um so you know we are um confident that the conclusions of a report would remain um regarding any other developments in
the area specifically that residential development. Um I think I'll yeah I was going to say so based on that the levels of service at the driveways would they operate at acceptable levels of service? Correct. All driveways were operating at
a level of service B during the studied peak hours. All right. And also in connection with the application, uh, we received the letter of no interest from the DOT. Can you just explain what that means? Correct. Um, for the development, we did submit what is a letter of no interest to the New Jersey Department of
Transportation. Um considering that the state highway is under state jurisdiction, we did perform a trip generation analysis based on the overall shopping center and the kind of change in use of this additional drive-through
coffee shop um is anticipated and they determined that it was not significant increase and granted us the letter of no interest. Right. And the county which also has jurisdiction over the other driveway also issued a unconditional approval. Correct. Correct. in the same process
and on the letter on the letter or levels of service you indicated those are all um A's and B's in the peak hour correct correct and that's for the right in right out driveway movements okay so next I want you to move or and discuss your analysis as it relates to on-site circulation and queuing um and
please just go through that and explain whether you believe it's been designed um appropriately sure um for that I'll jump ahead to pages um seven of our traffic study so The site is designed as a primarily
drive-thru facility. Um, it's what I would say is drive-thru encouraged. There are two drive-through lanes on the site. The outer lane, which has a conservative queue of a stacking queue of about 12 vehicles, and then the inner lane, which um would be able to
accommodate about 10 vehicles for a total of 22 stacking spaces on site. And that does leave room for between vehicles to allow for the staff to um navigate around vehicles. Um the lanes are in a counterclockwise
direction around the 510 square foot building. Um as previously mentioned, the waiters, you know, this is different than other national brand drive-throughs that you might be familiar with. the weight, the staff is actually coming out
to your car and sort of directing you through the drive-through lane. I would equate it similar to um maybe like a hand car wash where you're really at the direction of the staff on site. Once you enter the queue, they would greet you.
Um, and the staff, based on our observations, does a good job of coming right up to you as soon as you've entered um, the queue and your order then begins. You're talking face to face with the person. Um, in terms of traffic
and capacity, this really does speed up the process of ordering. Um, based on our observations, the typical transaction time from when a vehicle first stops on the site to when they leave the site was about three and a half to four minutes, which is a little
faster than other coffee brands um, nationwide. Um, the other benefit of the site is the on the outside of the outer drive-thru lane, there's an additional bypass lane. So, if you happen to be in that second
outer lane, you've already received your order. You would be able to pull out of the queue, exit the site, and the vehicles behind you would be able to pull up. Um, this is a benefit from similar uses where instead of waiting
till you were at the pickup window, the staff is actually bringing you your order directly to your car. So, in terms of the capacity, the site has been designed to fit what the um what the brand anticipates to be the maximum customers on a typical day. Um and that
22 stacking spaces is even more than what is anticipated on site. Aaron Chum when he was testifying Chen Chen I think he he either mentioned Starbucks or Dunkin Donuts or some other and he said that they provide X number.
Do you remember how many stacking these other 15? I think the typical Can we just ask him to Yeah, it's 10. What were the typical stacking that you had said other fast food restaurants have? Now, granted, this proposal has a
much limited a much more limited menu. Yeah, other coffee drive-through shops. So, Duncan, for example, typically has 8 to 10. Starbucks has uh 12 to 15. Okay, thanks. Okay. So, so Justine, in your professional opinion, the 22 spaces
is a proper amount of queuing for this for this site. Correct. All right. On on the parking and Mr. Troutman had stated during Mr. Chan's testimony that you would provide some testimony not only on the parking but also that ADA stall. So, could you please speak to that?
Sure. Um, again, given this is a drive-thru preferred um development, the anticipated parking demand is very low. It would only be for employees who would also likely carpool to the site. um that
ADA space really is just provided in the in case there is an employee who would need that um you know that accommodation and it was proposed where it is on the plan um specifically so that the employee would not have to cross um any
drive aisles. It's not intended for customers to necessarily use. Um, and that's why it's proposed on that inner uh drive-through lane. And that's really just because the customers are are not are not parking and then walking. Correct. Okay. Okay. Um, and in ter Mr. Chan also
testified to this, but if you could speak to it, the um the site as a whole has is overparked. Correct. Correct. And even with this, when you say it's overparked, you mean there's more spaces that aren't required. Correct. Correct. Overparked would mean too many cars, not enough
spaces. No, that would be underparked. Okay. Yeah, I think underparked is when you don't have when there's not enough spaces to accommodate. Overparked means you have access. For the record, how many is required at the entire center and how many Aaron went through that. Aaron, do you
want to do you have that? Um I believe Aaron testified to 1,961 are required and um we are overparked by 122 spaces. So that's about 200 [Music]
40 something. 2083. 83. Sorry. Go ahead. Um, so the reduction in spaces for the development is not a concern here. Again, this is
not a high parking generator use. Um, I think that concludes my testimony. Yeah. Just on one other thing, just for the record, all sight distances at the driveways and the queuing lanes are all set at proper and industry standard sight distances. Correct.
Okay. Um, and we agreed to Mr. Troutman's condition. Um, you have no issue with it either in um narrowing the the exit driveway um uh leaving the the bypass lane. Correct. Correct. And that's just theirs. It was an existing curb cut. Mr. Troutner wrote a condition for me.
We're going to make it number 12. It's going to say the width of the exit only driveway PN from the pass through lane and PN shall be reduced from 21 ft to 15 ft and that's acceptable. Correct. Correct. Okay. And then I guess one other item in
Mr. Tman's letter. Um the any delivery vehicles would be able to come onto the site during off peak hours and properly load and unload. Correct. Correct. And it's your understanding as well that those um vehicles are only on site for about 20 30 minutes. Correct.
Okay. Vehicle size um it's majority box trucks but if a tractor trailer could comes it could fit there. Correct. Correct. They could utilize the overall development is designed for that. Yeah. And Mr. Rosskim testified it's
about twice per week that there's a delivery. Correct. Mr. Chairman, item nine, is that supposed to be a condition? Items one through eight, I just put check marks. They're not conditions. It's either they gave testimony. You're explaining that you agree. What about item nine?
Item nine was addressed in testimony. So, you can check that. Okay. I think he just wanted us to put on the record it would be for an employee. Yep. So, item 10 is a condition, item 11 is a condition, and new item 12 is a condition. Is that correct? Yes.
Great. Thank you. That concludes my directives, Miss Fox. I I have just a couple questions. Um and I looked at Mr. Troutman's report and I it looks like everything is in line with respect to um the study. My question is
on the report that you have um who who prepared the report? Stonefield Engineering. Who prepared the traffic impact study dated May 12th, 2025? He's going to ask you. Your name's not on it. Yeah. Oh, I'm just curious like
So, did you did you ever go to the site? Yes. Okay. How many times you've been to the site? Um, I reviewed footage of the traffic counts that were conducted on two separate days and then I did a site visit this evening. Right. So, my understanding would Did you I'm sorry. Did you say you went
actually physically went to the site? Correct. Okay. And then my understanding is that in these types of things, what happens is you have people go out, they do uh studies of the traffic patterns, they take video of it. Right. Right. Okay. And you reviewed that video, correct? Okay.
Do you know why she reviewed that video? Um well, I'm going to ask her that. And I'm I'm assuming that the purpose of reviewing the video was for your testimony here today. Correct. Okay. For verification purposes. Correct. Yeah. I just want to make sure when we
have a record like this and we have these applications and traffic to me is probably my biggest sticking point. Um I always want to make sure that the person who's testifying um I would have liked to have seen your name on the report, but if you're going
to come and testify, I want to make sure that the person's been to the site um has at least looked at the video of the studies. That makes me feel a lot better. And then obviously Mr. Trapman's report made me feel even better with respect to uh what was happening here.
Um so I don't have any further questions with respect to that. Anyone have any questions? Okay. Next, our next witness is our professional planner Christine Capone. [Music] [Music]
All right. So, Christine, you were sworn in. If you can go through your uh credentials as a professional planner for the record. Yes. Good evening. Chairman and members of the court for the record. I am a licensed professional planner in the state of New Jersey. My current
valid. I've been testifying for about 29 years in the state as an expert witness. I have to qualify here in Rid. It's been a minute. I was I thought I touched it and turned it off. I knew it. Um I was at the planning board here last week. Although I didn't testify, I have definitely testified here. I think it's been maybe a decade or so since I've been here, but
I have been qualified as an expert witness before over 450 planning and zoning boards throughout the state. I teach planning and zoning courses for the Rucker Center for Government Services. I have a master's degree in city and regional planning from Ruckers. Um, I'm a court-appointed affordable housing special adjudicator in dozens of
communities. Um, my firm, in addition to the lion share of my practice, is appearing before planning and zoning boards, but I do represent the casino redevelopment authority in Atlantic City as their planner. So, sometimes I am on the other side of the of the Would the board accept Miss Capone as an expert?
Yes. All right. Great. So, Christine, just some foundational questions and then we'll we'll go from there. Um, you visited the site in the surrounding area. I did. Yes. I had a slice of pizza from the pizza shop. It was delicious. I've been there several times. It's good. Crispy.
Um and you've um reviewed all the relevant sections of the zoning ordinance and the master plan as it relates to this property. Yes, I have. And you've heard all the testimony, reviewed all the plans and reports associated with the project. Correct. Okay. So, why don't we address the D1 variance first and then we can go into
the signage variances as well. Yes. So the D1 use variance is because your ordinance does not specifically permit fast food in the PCOS, the planned commercial office service district where the subject property is
located. While it does permit a variety of commercial uses and it does also list out some prohibited uses, eight of them to be specific, it does not allow this as a use specifically. What it does allow though is category 2 service uses. And I'm going to read it because it's
just a couple of lines. Service uses, child care, restaurants, parenthesis, including takeout and exterior eating areas, hotels, banquet facilities, conference facilities, recreation, movie theaters, theaters, public uses, civic
uses, light manufacturing, insurance and real estate offices, and travel agencies. So that I would I would consider this to be as a planner who's testified, you know, in hundreds of communities on thousands of applications, a fairly permissive district as far as commercial uses go.
However, the subject use is not specifically enumerated um as a fast food use. And your ordinance does define fast food use. It is identified both in your ordinance as well as Mr. Bakarella's September 12th correspondence. And it reads, "A retail
food service operation in which a limited or specialized list of quickly prepared or pre-prepared food items is offered for on premises and off- premises consumption or where a drive up window exists for ordering food items or where vehicle food service or
consumption of food within a vehicle exists on the premises. So while we do align with that definition, I would say we are probably not what is typically considered. If you asked somebody in land use, right, your side of the board as planners as well, you hear a lot of
applications. If you ask someone to describe a typical fast food use as we know it in New Jersey, they probably wouldn't describe the use that's before you this evening. Nonetheless, we have to deal with the ordinance and the regulations. Um, and we are here seeking that D1 use variance which requires me
as the planner to testify that this site is particularly suitable. We don't have to establish that it's uniquely suitable and this is the only location it can go or that we have ruled out other sites. We just have to demonstrate that there's something about this site that makes it suitable for this use. In my opinion,
um, one of the things the board can be guided by is that this was the location of a former pad site with a drive-thru. Right? We know that there was an approval for a building that was 3,500 square feet with a drive-thru associated with it. We also know from listening to the testimony of our site civil as well
as our traffic engineer that this site can accommodate a vehicle stacking of up to 22 spaces and this is a large commercial shopping center at 68.9 square square acres sorry 68.9 acres. So for those reasons I think the site is
particularly suited for this proposed use. In addition to particular suitability as a devariance, we have to demonstrate that one or more purposes of the land use law are advanced establishing the positive criteria. Statutoily in order to be um meet our
burden of proof, we have to demonstrate one. I believe that three are advanced by this application. Criteria A of the land use law talks about promoting the general welfare. The master plan here in Raridan is very specific. In 2008, it
was re-examined. Then it was looked at again in 2019 when the goals of that master plan were reiterated and they talked about permitting additional non-residential development. So I think that's isn't that the for the negative criteria? I'm getting there. Yeah, I'm just
this is the how is a how is the general welfare is promoted. There must be some kind of need for this use. That's why it's promoted. No, we don't I don't think we have to demonstrate need, Mr. D. So promoting the general welfare what I was going what I was the point I was making was that the master plan calls for
additional commercial development and that by providing additional commercial development on basically a vacant pad site we're promoting the general welfare. I think you guys are both saying the same thing. Yeah. I don't think you have to prove need but if you I don't think you have to prove
need. You think? No I don't. That's what I said. I don't think you have to. I agree. So, but if you have need, doesn't that I think we're saying per say promote the general welfare. Yes. So, that's why we're saying it. So, I think we're saying the same. I'm going with need and not I'm not
going with the master plan for a special reason. I'm waiting to hear about the master plan on the negative criterion, the reconciliation. You you'll hear it again, Mr. D. So, and then I also think criteria G, criteria G of the land use law talks about providing sufficient space in appropriate locations for a variety of
uses. You also heard Mr. Chan testify earlier this evening that we meet all of the bulk criteria for the PCOS zone. And what that means is the coverage, the setbacks, all the intensity regulators for the PCOS zone we comply with. And
the last criteria I I think we meet is criteria M which talks about having developments that provide for an efficient use of the land. And I believe the testimony the direct testimony of our site civil engineer was that this is a quick and efficient layout. So I think those three now again if you don't agree
with all of them that's okay because statutoily we only have to advance one. So I cited three criteria A, criteria G and criteria M. All right. So those are the special reasons or the positive criteria. So on the negative criteria we have to show
two prongs. One is is there any substantial detriment to the public good and then two we have to reconcile um the omission of the use from the master plan and the zoning ordinance. So why don't you address those? So we'll stay on the negative criteria because the two prongs of the negative criteria are the impact on the zone plan
and the impact on the public good. Um, I already told you in in my opening statements that I believe this to be a permissive commercial zoning district and I read for for you those criteria, those category 2 uses which contemplates restaurants including takeout and
exterior eating areas. The other thing is that at section 296-118 which regulates the PCOS zone, it talks about having a mixture of uses in that zone and I think that this is consistent so with that. So I think that we're
consistent with the stated purpose of the PCOS zone and we are not radically different than those uses that were in intended by the PCOS zone. So I see no substantial detriment to the zone plan. As far as the public good, this site
sits um hundreds of feet back from the adjoining roadways. It is well screened with existing mature vegetation on the subject property and I see no detriment to the public good if in fact the variance for the the use variants were allowed to allow the use at this location.
Could you go back to the master plan now and explain why it's also consistent with the master plan? Use what you said on the positive criterion to plug in here. Yes, certainly. So the master plan was reexamined here in 2019 and it restated
the goals from 2008. One of those very specific goals was to permit additional non-residential development. So, not only do I think we meet the per burden of proof with respect to particular suitability and um positive and negative criteria, but I think this is an
opportunity to implement your master plan and implement that goal specifically. Okay. You're saying ordinance section 296118 shows that the use is consistent with the intent and purpose of the zoning
ordinance and the master the 2008 master plan goal about permitting additional non-residential development shows that the use is consistent with the intent and purpose of the master plan. That's your testimony. Correct, Mr. Drill. not only the 2008 master plan, but the 2019 master plan,
which restated that goal. Well, but that 2019, was that a master plan or was that just a re-examination? It was a re-examination report. Yeah. Okay. And then Christine, just a couple follow-ups. So, on the f on the f on the master plan, um the reconciliation, this use, there's only
one in New Jersey that was just built recently, and this concept is kind of new. So the fact that the concept is new, there's only one in New Jersey that was built less than a year ago. Could that also be a reason that possibly it wasn't envisioned by the ordinance in the master plan? Right. So when I talk I didn't even do
the medit reconciliation yet. That was the last part of my testimony. So I've had actually had the opportunity despite the fact that um there's not many of these or there's only one open in New Jersey. My daughter attends Hamilton College and in New Hartford, New York there is a seven row. So, um, she is a
swimmer, so I'm there a lot visiting. So, I've had the opportunity to visit Seven Brew quite a few times. Um, I'm a fan of the Blondie. Check it out. I think it's it's a very good blend. Um, so, but when you're talking about the M Medi reconciliation, right, what we have to look at there is the governing body's
continued omission of this use. And the Medici case is a case that came from, I think, the late 80s. And footnote number 11 in Medici talks about a use that was unique at the time of the drafting of the zoning ordinance. And in footnote
number 11 in Medici, it re it referenced a a fitness club like a gym, which of course back in the 80s there was not a gym on every corner like there is today. So kind of kind of funny to to read a unique use like a gym. I guess in the 80s they weren't so prevalent. So I
think that that's a great transfer to this type of use, right? The ordinance really didn't contemplate this very small building that is heavily rellyant on a drive-thru for um you know a use that's primarily devoted to beverages. Right. Quest a quick question on that.
When the traffic expert testified, she said there was and the report says the it has a land use 938 which is a two-lane coffee doughut shop with no indoor seating. Can can you get the trap? Do you know
when the studies in that proposed chip generation were published? I mean that that must be recent if according if this is such if this is a new use. Well, I don't think that though this is a coffee and donut shop, right? Dunkin
Donuts has been around for a long time. You're saying they have a use that just has two-lane coffee doughnut shop with no indoor seating. When was that? So I'd have to ask Justine. the 11th edition. Part of the IT 11th edition. Ah, this thing says the 10th edition. So
that's the brand new 11th edition. Uh, the brand new one's 12. Okay. So this thing I think the report says 11. No, the report says chapter 10. Oh, chapter 10 of the third edition. That's That's the page.
Yeah, John page five. Am I on the wrong page? Yeah, that's Yeah. Yeah, that that's what page am I supposed to be on? Sorry, it is also page five, but it's going to be on the second sentence of the second paragraph.
First sentence of the second. It's the IT gen trip generation manual, the 11th edition, 93 years ago. Okay. Jay, do you know if the 10th edition before that had a 938 or is this
brand new from two years ago? I did not look at the tenth, so I'm not 100% sure on that. I can tell you that the rates they used are based on 20 studies. I don't know where they were when they were done because I don't have
It would be interesting if if this was like if the IT just did this two years ago. Yeah. That kind of really shows how Yes, it's aligned with the Medici reconciliation. Yeah. And I also want to say too also not not only just the the type of use but also the way it's done here where the people come out to the
car and and take your orders like that's that's part of the uniqueness of this. Correct Christine of this type of use. Yes. And in fact I think you know the Dunkin Donuts has been around for a little bit longer where you have donuts but this is really I think even more unique than a typical Dunkin Donuts that
doesn't have seating because they do come out to the car. It's a very small building. It's a limited limited menu. So I think it's what you're saying is the zoning ordinance could not have contemplated this use because this use didn't ex didn't exist even though the ordinance
was amended when? Last year or the year before? So the ordinance was amended in 2024. It's now 2025. But this use, this particular use is so new that the ordinance couldn't have contemplated that. That's what you're saying that it didn't. Yes. That it didn't
contemplate it. And then Christine, on the substantial detriment to the public good, does it also reinforce your testimony that we're complying with the board professional recommendations as it relates to all the technical aspects of the application? Yes, that can be looked at in the negative criteria as well. All right. Can you now address the the
sign variances that we're seeking? Yes. So, um, we were seeking the variances for the seven signs at 122 square feet. Mr. Chan walked the board through the elevations of those and I believe that the those are bulk variances so they can be granted under the the board can grant variances under
the C1 or C2. The C2 is the flexible C statute where in the absence of any hardship the board can still grant under the C2 if you find that it's a better zoning alternative that advances one or more of the purposes of the municipal land use law. So I think in this case
you can rely on criteria H which talks about promoting the free flow of traffic. I think we've already walked through the site and the site plan and the placement of the signs on the building to demonstrate how they will contribute to the free flow of traffic.
So I believe that criteria H I also think when you look at the ordinance here in Raridan for signs which is section 296 JS 159 the intent of that ordinance when you go down to B2 one of the stated intentions of that ordinance
is orderly readable and appropriate to the activity to which they pertain and I think that that's a great uh a great example of this application's sign package because it is orderly it is readable and it's appropriate to the activity which it pertains. So, not only
do we advance one of the purposes of the municipal land use law criteria H, but I think as far as the negative criteria, this sign package is completely aligned with the stated intent of section 296 JS 159 of the signed section of the
ordinance here in Raridan. Based on the testimony you heard from the other experts, I assume you'd also agree that you would think 2A traffic safety is promoted. Yes, I would agree with that. And you don't see any substantial
detriment to the public good? You addressed consistent that it would be there would be no impairment. In fact, it would reinforce the zone plan and zone ordinance. Do you see any detriment to the public good as a result of the signed variances? So, I don't and that that's the test. The test doesn't say that you have to hold this or any other applicant that
there be no detriment. Just that there be no substantial detriment and the benefits of the grant of the variance outweigh any detriment. That's our test. So here I see no substantial detriment to the zone plan or the public good. All right. And in your professional opinion granting these sign variance is the benefits of granting those that we
discussed at length during Mr. Chan's testimony would substantially outweigh any detriments. Yes, that's my testimony. Okay. Fact. The only detriment could be aesthetic. And in this case, I assume your testimony is going to be based on all the exhibits that it's actually quite goodlooking and not aesthetically
detrimental at all. You know, Mr. I didn't want to prolong the record, but I actually when I testify as a planner on signs, I usually testify that signs have three purposes to them. Wayfinding, of course, which we've talked about extensively, advertising, these are commercial zones.
We want our businesses to be successful, right? Your master plan wants additional commercial development. And then architecturally, aesthetics. We as planners generally don't prefer monolithic blank walls. And the sign package here in my opinion is very um
reasonable and proportional to the walls that which they sit on. So I do think that they absolutely have an aesthetic. I didn't want to push the limits here on the record here and go with H& on that. But I do think I a desirable visual environment is appropriate because it's my opinion as a planner again who's
testified on thousands of commercial applications that signs are important and they have those three functions to them. But again, I wasn't thinking I positive. I was thinking no negative detriment. Yes, I you can look at it like so many things in planning. It fits in in
different areas and I think you could look at it as as in both of those locations. I I would say that concludes my my director, Mr. F. I have questions and I I just need to to figure this out. Okay, it's drilled into
my head that I'm old. So, help me out. I think this is going to be Zach that's going to help. Okay. Okay. So, I'm going to pull in. I don't see a menu. I see a guy standing there with an iPad.
How do I know what to order? I'm I'm confused. That's exactly right. But we we view our employees as walking menus. So, they'll come up to you, they'll greet you, they'll say, "Welcome to SevenBrew. Hope you're having a nice day." Um, and then they'll ask you if you've been there before, if you have a a number, that'll
be a rewards number. If you say no or if you say it's only my second time, they'll say, "Well, can I walk you through the menu?" And our iPads actually do have a menu on them, but the employee more importantly can walk you through our drink options. How many drink options do you have? So, you can customize absolutely
everything. So, I don't want to overwhelm with the number. That's the thing is if you In other words, it's it's not seven because it's seven brew. So, we're actually called seven brew because there are seven highlighted options at the top of the menu which are by far our most commonly ordered items. So most of the time that interaction
employee customer goes through those seven and says we have other options but one of those seven is probably the right fit for you. So we're going to have a conversation. I'm in my car. We're going to have a conversation. I'm going to say and I looked at the website. I mean the menu is like extensive. I mean
820 calories per drink is a little outside my realm but um not sure I'm going to go there. But um so okay. So you talk. So we agree on ordering something. Okay. He's gonna order it on the iPad. Correct.
I'm gonna pay right there. Correct. He is not going back inside. He's That's going back wireless. Correct. I'm going to go around the half circle. Yes. And someone else is going to come out that door and give it to me. Yes. And the person at the end of the
line actually has an iPad as well, which will actually show your order eyes on it. So, they'll be able to confirm that the order was placed correctly. They'll be able to confirm that the drinks coming out of the building match the order that's in front of them. And they'll deliver you the drinks and and tell you to have nice stuff. Okay.
I just know if I presented this to my son, he'd look at me like I'm nuts. I think I think there is no mobile. We're going to talk to people and we're going to not see a menu and you're going to just you I'm just going to try and visualize something as you talk to me. I'm there. There's a use that's kind of
similar to like Chick-fil-A is another bigger one where you see during usually like the peak time. They have menus. They do, but they will walk all the way out to the front. I think as a part of your your uh site plan too, there are backlit menu boards on the outside of there's one backlit menu board on
right three, I think. Two. Well, let me ask you this. If does your employee show the iPad to the customer if they need to? They do. It It's a rare occasion, but
they will if a employee if a customer, excuse me, really wants to see a menu. Most of the time when I I've took orders earlier today actually in Washington Township, most of the time I make two or three recommendations and the the customer picks one. Uh but if they really want to see a menu, we can turn the iPad, show them a menu, and walk
them through that. Okay. I just had to walk through. I just when you ordered out in Alabama, what did you do? Here's what happened. When we when we showed up, there must have been I'm going to exaggerate a little bit there. It must have been 40 cars. Okay, so I
was basically like, what are we doing here? And so they got out of the car and they walked up. I just parked somewhere else and they walked up and they were like, we just walked right up and they we just ordered. So, they were able to walk up in order. Um,
well, that's and they're going to do that here. Yeah, they can do that here. So, that I I don't know the process. That's why I'm asking because I didn't I wasn't in that line cuz I thought And here's the other thing. Even if you have a lot of cars, I guess seven brew is different in that
you could have a lot of cars, but it may not be a long waiting time, right? Because I would have known that. So, so the basic drinks could be pre-made. your basic lemonade, your basic whatever, but then there are so many options. Excuse me. I'm not testifying for you. I was just looking
at the website. I'm like, this is like a dessert menu, but but again, they have to make the drink. So, there could be a weight obviously because there's going to be a weight because there's So, a lot of those options are just a different milk. Sorry. A lot of those options are just a
different milk. So, for example, we view a skim milk latte and an You have seven syrups. We we have we have quite a few syrups, but but the the seven originals are pre-made and those usually are what the customers select. Okay. Thank you for
you. It's 9:35. You guys want to ask a lot of more questions? No, no, no. I just needed to clear that in my head. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Absolutely. Okay. Thank you, John. Anywhere from three to eight. I guess there's no more questions. Yeah, we're good. So,
do you want to open it up to the public just to be on the safe side? Yeah, I know. I know there's nobody here, but I don't have a question. I just had one thing I found to your point about it being a new use. Yeah. This has not yet been put into the NJ dot highway access permit system. Okay. So, it is new.
It is a new use. Thank you. Helpful. Okay. All right. Anybody we questions, professionals? So, again, there's people in the public. We asked before. It seemed like you were all here with the applicant. So, is there anyone in the public that's not
here with the applicant? Is there anyone? You're not here with the applicant. Okay. Do you want to ask any questions or say anything? Okay. Record should reflect there was one gentleman. He's sitting way in the back. The other people are in the front and he
says he's not with the applicant, but I think he knows the applicant, but I don't know. But he doesn't want to ask any questions, he said. And he doesn't want to make any comments. Correct. No objection. Okay. Okay. We can um
vote for deliberation. So, anybody want to start? You want me to start? Um well, f first of all, I think the the application uh was well done. It was well done. The the exhibits were great. The testimony
was great. Um, this is an area that's been vacant for a while. Um, and I literally was just talking about this area. So, and I do think it's going to provide a lot of benefit. It's it's also it it's something new. Um, it's not the
same old same old. And I think that's that's a good thing for Flemington. We're going to be having a well, I don't know if I'll be around for it, but there's going to be a you know, we're we're revitalizing Flemington. Um, at least that's the plan. and progress seems to be doing pretty well, but I
think this just adds more to our to our township. I really do. I don't see any detriment to it. Um satisfied with uh the traffic study. That's the one that I really uh worry about. I think the um the conditions that have been agreed to
are all uh stuff that I'm glad the applicant agreed to. It was a pretty easy application to be honest the way we went through everything. So, um, with the conditions that have been agreed to, um, and the fact that the, um, you know,
this is going to be a a pretty quick I think it's going to be a pretty quick construction. It seems to be that's the way these things are done with Seven Brew. Um, so I'm I'm all for the application with those conditions. Okay. I'll just add that I I am in favor
of the application. I think it's unique. I think the site is well suited for it. Um, and I agree with with uh Steve that we need we need new and different and uh even though I don't think I'll be a be a participant.
You're going to try again. That's that's dinner for me. That's that's that's one day's meal. So, but I would be in favor and thank you for the presentation. It was well done. Anyone else? Good. You want to vote? Yeah. I'll just say that I'm also uh I
appreciate an applicant who has their act together in an organized application. It's you guys you don't fully appreciate what is being said. Okay. We see a lot of slack around. Thank you. I appreciate this. This is a highly professional,
really well done application. The exhibits are outstanding. It makes it much easier for the board to understand when they can see things. Testimony was crisp to the point. It was Yeah. A thing of beauty. That's what you're telling us. And that's why we get to go home before 10:00.
I will say one last thing. I do think this location I think you're going to kill it because I think 100 central students alone are going to be there every day uh every day on the hour. So, um you know, the best of luck to you guys. All right.
Last point I wanted to make was that I'm eager or excited and eager to see something that's not just the same old drive-thru. So, I'm hopeful that it works out and I'll be eager to, you know, drive through once once you guys open up. Jim, did you have Yeah.
on your microphone? Microphone. Microphone. Keep forgetting about I want to compliment you folks on your presentation of the case. John's right. We see a lot of stuff here. The jury came across very good and very
understandable. Personally, I think it's a great use for that property. And and and you're going to be situated between two competitor comp coffee companies, one on each end of town, and you're kind of in the
middle. Yeah. I think that's beneficial. Also, the Flemington area, particularly Ron Township, is about to undergo another building boom with the apartments and condo and stuff that you're building. So, I think it's is a a good thing to
have for our our residents that are here and the people are going to come here. It's a good option. Let's look. Okay. Can I get a Seems like we're a motion to approve. No one's objected. I second.
Okay. So, Jim made the motion and Randy second. Chairwoman, Miss Cynthia Schaefer. Yes. Mr. Randy Block. Yes. Mr. Steve Farcio. Yes. Mr. Jim Ferrero. Yes. Miss Lorett Cina. Yes. Miss Donna Drew. Yes.
And Mr. James Miller. Yes. Great. Thank you everybody. Okay. Thank you. Okay. I don't think we have any any other business. Nope. Can you Can I get a motion to adjurnn? So move. Second. All in favor?
[Music] Have a good evening. You too.