calling to order the Zoning Board of adjustment R in Township New Jersey regular meeting February 20th 2025 the notice requirements of the open public meetings act have been satisfied by the placing of a notice of this meeting on the pton board at the
municipal building filing same with the Township Clerk and transmitting same with the Hun County Democrat the curer news Star Ledger and the Trenton Times Roll Call please where'd you [Music] go chairwoman Miss Cynthia schaer here
Vice chair Mr rul dami here Mr Randy block here Mr Steve fario here Mr Jim Ferrero Jim hey Jim thank you m I'm I'm unmuted I don't know why you
can't hear me when we hear you now hear you now we're good we're good Miss lindsy cool BR gal she has asked to be excused Miss Lor ktina Miss Donna Drews here Mr James Miller
here call anyone else Prof I can't I can't four professionals board attorney Mr John drill here Township planner Mr Jeffrey Bella here on behalf of board engineer Mr KES Dari we have Mr Ryan McCarthy here Township
landscape architect Mr John Morgan Thomas here and all other board professionals have as to be excused board secretary Taylor vaugh here okay can I get a motion to excuse Lindsay
motion roll call please chairwoman miss santhia Schaefer yes Vice chair m s adami yes Mr Randy block yes Mr Steve fario yes Mr Jim yes Miss Lor ktina yes Miss Donna Drews
yes okay moving on to comments announcements distribution correspondence and meeting minutes having none moving to the first application for this evening boa case number 2012-2020 applicant is the fud shop Land
Group LLC location block 36 lot 65 10 no Brook Place application for a minor site plan with d variant relief for manufacturing use and residential use in a B3 Zone and it's going to be rescheduled oh
did I put a copy of his letter with you uh hold on give me a second got it okay uh letter from Scott Bullock Dear Miss vau applicant the fudge shop
Grants a Time extension for the board to act on this application to the end of July 2025 I will get back to you on proposed meeting dates the engineer is still revising the site plan thank
you okay okay can someone just remind everybody so what they're revising where we are on that they have to revise and also re they have to do a submission for the front front off front front building
the existing building so right now I'm not exactly sure why he wrote his letter the way he did but right now they're penciled in for April 17th but that's still subject to if they make it with that new submission within the 21 days because
we're not going to wave that rule well you guys decide that they're not going you're not going to wave the 21-day rule yeah I would suggest that in this case you do not wave the 21 rule it's not simply you know a couple revisions this is something the board wanted to see and
wants the the board experts to have you know plenty sufficient time to get the reports I think we already told them that correct yes yeah yeah okay and and Jay needs to do a report traffic expert traffic expert Jay Troutman needs to do
a report okay all right so they're on for the 17th they're penciled in but they they're still going to have to notice no matter matter what date they got right okay all right thank you moving on to the second application
for this evening boa case number 10-22 Esco Precision Inc location block 36.029456 [Music] can you identify yourself for the record Amir El can you spell your uh first name
e m iir okay and raise your right hand you swear that the testimony you'll be giving in this proceeding will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes okay so you have a letter it's undated but the board secretary says it
was submitted on January 15th and it's requesting an extension of the deadline for the following regarding the site plan application for 11 royal road condition 15 in resolution 22-8 for obtaining zoning construction
permits and you want that extended for a six Monon extension so just for purposes of the the the record here the board has already granted two prior extensions the last extension which was
the second EXT ention was memorialized in resolution 2024-25 correct jeffre so right now I know that he is saying that he wants an extension of condition 15 do they need a also an
extension of condition one or is it just just 15 condition one is that the applicant shall revise the site plan and other documents uh by September 5 2024 was that that was yeah that's okay so condition 15 is the
time to obtain construction permit commence and complete construction and obtain the co and that was supposed to be by November 18 2024 when do you want that extended until um so let's see here I know you asked for six months but
what's the date you want to extend it so uh see pre-cast is going to be April is and then steel you're in April so you'll have a shell by May where we're in February now it's three months yeah so I
would say six months is probably what it's going to be there's no way it could be plus a month has construction started out there J no no okay this condition says you're going to obtain zoning and construction
permits by November 18 and then you're you're going to have two years to complete construction so you're saying that you believe you can commence construction by when I know you went through when would you
commence um like I'm not sure stru land like Land Development is like okay what's the first thing you're going to do to yeah so so they did like a a pad right like the land is done and now they have to do like the so they did site
work you're saying right so now the actual building is just right but you didn't need a construction permit to do site work correct okay okay got you so when are you going to need your first construction permit when they do what when they that'll be the pre-cast walls that's how saying in April pre-cast
walls and the steel correct yeah so you believe that you'll have the pre-cast walls arriving on the site in April is yeah have they been ordered yeah okay and they gave you delivery date of April is they they don't
guarantee anything I understand all we can do is give a deposit and get on their schedule but I can't guarantee to you it'll be by April right put it this way you want to come back here again no okay so does anyone have any suggestion
because I can tell you that if you extend this thing to April he's going to be back here because there's there's no way that me that's April is means May or June yeah well I mean for the whole building
with like electric and whatever you're Hing make September okay you have to apply for and obtain a zoning permit and all your construction permits not just the first one all of them right meaning construction Electrical Plumbing
so if he thinks he's going to be done by September why don't we just extended thinking that he won't start till September and that would be the worst if he had November 18 2024 what does the why doesn't the board just give him November 18 2025 I agree
sounds good thank you okay and I think members of the board last time when you weren't here the reason they kicked it out to have you here what has been the delay that tell them that they wanted to know I honestly don't know um we signed up with J&R for the site work and he's
just been working I don't really question him we're not really like you know heavy developers so we kind of take them at their word and he's been working and I don't know did he give you did he give you a timeline and you and he's just keeps I thought he was within the timeline to be honest I'm not really like fing it too
closely be honest with you I thought we were okay okay yeah okay okay if I may it took it took a while because you had the zoning permit and once you guys got the land ready for site work we asked
that you get a letter of certification from the County Soil just saying that the site is satisfactory unfortunately the soil conservation they're under staffed as well so it took them a while to get that letter to us oh yeah it's true yeah okay okay that's a
real good explanation yeah for okay thank you for that I kind site together the site nightmare yeah okay so someone on the board want to make a motion to further modify condition
number 15 to extend the time for them to apply for and obtain zoning and construction permits by November 18 2025 I'll make the motion you a roll call please Cynthia that was you and Randy yes chairwoman Miss Cynthia schaer yes
Vice chair M dami yes Mr Randy block yes Mr C fario yes Mr Jim Ferrero yes Jim okay yes Miss ltina yes Miss Donna Drew yes okay okay
okay thank you all right good luck thanks okay moving on to the third case for this evening boa case number 20- 2024 applicant as Pioneer developers LLC block 36 lot 13 180 Pennsylvania Avenue
application is amended preliminary and final site plan with bulk variances is that the right address because when I Google Maps this is this this property does not come up is 180 I think they put up a street sign that says barbish right it's going to be
one barbish one bar okay okay I think it was 180 180 Pennsylvania Avenue that was the 180 is that other site no no so 180 is if if you look at it uh on the tax M there's
like a a flag on the lot that goes towards Pennsylvania and so access was originally Pennsylvania and then it got moved on to oil okay thank you good
evening good evening Madam chair members of the board Cara kazinski mcnellis kazinski and lime thank you for coming out tonight hopefully the weather will hold out for a little bit and hopefully we can give you the information that you
need as ex that in a manner as possible so that we can continue with this application um as Madame chair indicated I'm here representing Pioneer developers LLC property is 180 Pennsylvania Avenue block 36 lot 13 Senor I to Zone uh we're
here tonight for amended preliminary and final site plan approval and both variances and those are for the tree canopy removal of 84.9% where 55 is permitted and 79.9 6 was previously approved by this board uh
for the proposed Monument sign to be located 5et from the RightWay of Royal Road uh where 10 ft is required and that is subject to the Township's either granting a variant or the vacation uh that issue is still up in the air at
this point but we continue to advise the board of where that stands if that ends up going anywhere at this point but we are asking for that relief in the event that the township does make that determination to uh allow one of those events to occur and also the design
exception that we noted at the last meeting this is from section 29672 C is in cat 2 K is in kite for the proposed galvanized steel guard rails uh your ordinance requires that they be wooden and asking for that design
deviation okay also there was in the engineers memo dated February 14 they raised a question item seven they say a C2 variance was granted with the initial approval to allow disturbance within 75 feet of the stream
bank and to allow structures within 100 feet of the stream Bank the applicant shall provide testimony regarding whether the extended disturbance exasperates relief off any additional relief is required we discussed this at the previous hearing yeah okay and what
was the conclusion it was the The Stream in question was a ditch stream that came through the property and it was removed in its entirety as part of the project so no relief is required that's correct all right and we will go through
the other items in that letter as well but that at least takes care of that one piece of relief if I may just before we go any further so just to put on the record uh Mr James Miller and Mr Steve bario were not here at your first hearing but they have listened to the recordings from the first hearing and
they are eligible to vote if a vote is taking place tonight thank you excellent thank you you're welcome you v um we were last here on December 19th where we presented the revised engineering site plan and our Engineers testimony in support of the revisions and the
additional relief that we were asking for uh the board had a number of questions did as did the board professionals and there were some items that we indicated that we would revise on our site plan and return to this board with and we have done that this evening and we have
our engineer here to present those revisions and we are prepared to respond to um items in three letters that are before this board uh Mr dar's letter of February 14th we engineer uh Mr John Morgan Thomas's
letter dated earlier today and also there was one little piece of Jeff's letter and that letter was dated uh December 16th uh just a couple minor items that we just want to put on the record I think we've addressed all of them but just to close the loop on those
three letters um so that was December 16th um also as discussed at the last meeting we submitted amended exhibit a to the application to reflect that revised relief that I indicated in my opening um we also have information here
tonight through testimony of our engineer regarding the satisfaction of the self-reporting request to the DP uh with regard to the um property conditions our engineer will testify as to that he'll also testify as to submission of the revised plans to the
hunon county soil erosion sediment control uh we submitted our updated arborus report he is here tonight to answer any questions but we have reviewed Mr Thomas's report we'll be prepared to address that as well uh and we have our updated plans uh which were
last revised February 7th and again uh Mr ner will be here is here to testify as to those revisions and answer any questions um I indicated the reports that we've have since the last meeting that we're going to be ready to address and unless anyone has any preliminary
questions um I'd like to have Mr ner who was warning at the last meeting uh remain under oath and continue to testify to the revised plans that are let me see um the arborist was was he here I don't think no he was not so let's get him sworn in right now so I don't forget can the
Arbus come up to the microphone please can you state your name for the record yeah Todd Pearson hey how do you how do you spell your last name p e a r s o n he and it's Todd to O okay can you raise your right hand and do you swear or affirm the testimony
you're going to give matter will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I okay do you have any you'll I know the applicant attorney will qualify you but do you have any designations licenses or anything uh some a license a New Jersey state license tree
expert okay John if you want I can qualify him now so then if any questions come up I know sometimes as we're going through not a bad IDE that's a good idea yeah yeah I don't really plan so just so the board knows I don't on calling him to
testify to answer your questions um okay so you've stated your name and address you've stated your license um is that license in good standing yes and it's in the state of New Jersey state of New Jersey um have you appeared before other boards in the state of New Jersey no this is your first appearance
my first appear have you testified as an expert um in other circumstances uh with regard to your license so I've written reports as an expert but I've never actually stood in front of a board or a well this they're going to be your first you understand what it means to be
under the road yes and you've written the report that has been presented to this court tonight yes and you agree to testify truthfully with regard to each item in that report and your analysis that L writing that report I do I what do you have to do to become a New Jersey licens tree expert um so
it's I don't remember the exact timeline but there's I think you have to be a practice in arist for five year four or five years or um a bachelor's degree in a comparable field and then additional you know experience do you have to take
a test it's a test yeah very comprehensive test it's uh a sorry do you mind just speaking a bit closer to the microphone sorry um so it is a comprehensive test I think it consists of it's a 4our um book test and
then a 4-Hour field exam okay now what does an arborus do what would you what the typical things you do uh a lot of things an arur could do it's essentially it's the care of trees care of plants um so it's you know I own a company and
then I also do some um I guess like Consulting as well so did you graduate from a college uh I don't have graduate uh a degree now okay not a graduate do you have any college degree okay what
was your major what did you business management okay and your degrees in a business Bachelor of uh no Associates of business okay you have an associates degree in Business almost okay I never I never completed you never completed so how did
you end up in the the arborist field uh just something I started doing as a job out of high school and I've been doing it for what 38 years okay Steve you have any any questions on his qualifications as an arborist well yeah some good ones
um I so you don't have a degree and there wasn't a certain um class that you would have taken because you took business classes as an associate degree correct and you've been working in the field since you were 18 17 actually or
17 okay and you said you have provided reports before yes where have you provided reports uh just to various um I guess in case with lawyers I've just never been called in court was it were they for litigation like Lage yeah
litigation usually or most of them have been um either trees taken down you know by neighbors that didn't own you didn't belong to them of some were trees that had fallen onto neighboring properties that done some structural damage all right but what would have been the like
was there a technical issue that you did a report on or was it what was the report based on what were these reports based on I guess most of the time my reports would be kind of reporting the um the state of the tree the health of the tree uh was it obvious that the tree was going to fall was it a danger to
begin with um I've also I also do a lot of haard tre evaluations um okay I mean I personally think don't not yet let ask him some more questions okay okay is there a state arborist Association or something
like that uh there's yeah a couple what assoc what state associations are there and do you belong to any of them uh so I'm the president of elect of the New Jersey chapter of the international Society of our Bor culture um there's
a New Jersey shade tree Federation U there is a board that oversees our license the board of license Tree Experts okay so you said you're president of the New Jersey chapter of what international Society of
art for culture okay and did you what did you have to do to qualify to get into that organization let alone be president of the New Jersey chap that's a volunteer organization you really have to volunteer sir I'm sorry I can't hear a word you're saying I don't know how much closer I can get to this mic really
just tip the mic up a little the one thing I will just note and I told Taylor this when I don't know about Jim when you were when this video that I watched um for this last hearing on December 19th you have to really there was times I had to go back because I could not
hear that microphone anybody your microphone and that microphone wow I'll try speak a little louder type of microphone because if these are picking it up that one's not that could be y just a clarification question so as a certified tree expert are you required
to um undergo or maintain continuing education credits yes and what types of things do you have to do for that continuing education credits what types of courses or so it's any license really it's the same as any license you know um
it's has to be class is based on various forms you know or various aspects of the industry whether it's you know biology or pruning or you know soil um okay and those courses are typically offered by what organizations
that that offer cus there's a lot that offer um I probably get most of mine from either Ruckers or from our organization itself okay what's the last one you did I'm doing one next week um we have our New Jersey uh Garden State Tree conference down in Atlantic City
it's a two-day class where you can get I think you can get about I think you can get 11 credits it's about an hour per credit you're required to get 30 credits over a two-year period or 32 maybe Steve this sounds similar to yeah wait you
have to have 32 over two years correct yeah so just from a contextual we need 24 over two years yeah so um when certified tree expert when that designation came in was it done on in an
attempt to professionalize the industry and demonstrate competency so it started a long time ago kind of as a self-regulation um the state of New Jersey so we were certified Tree Experts and then the state of New Jersey kind of took it over and made it a licensed tree
expert yeah so it is done it is done through Department of Community Affairs and you are a licensed it's actually uh Department of the D the forestry your forestry actually it's not it should be it should be in agriculture so it's in forestry but it's not it's through the D
okay D you guys comfortable um finding that he's a uh an a tree expert certified tree expert is well he's New Jersey licensed tree expert but
do you accept him as an expert in trees yeah do you think what do you think that he was asking that's I'm asking you John John Thomas uh well probably come out in testimony we had a
I did have a a meeting with Mr Pearson earlier on and and I haven't worked with him personally but he I'm generally satisfied with everything I'm seeing in this report and just as a little little background he mentioned that you know U
other Allied professionals can take the uh can take the certified tree exam and at one point I fancied myself I thought I might go ahead and do that and I found out that less people pass the certified Tree Experts exam on the first time that passed the Landscape
Architects exam I was so so for me for me what I was going to say because I do have some cases that deal with trees it is it is definitely an art you definitely got to know what you're doing and it sounds like uh you have the credentials um and I I'm glad
that I asked you that question I do I do feel comfortable myself in saying that Mr Pearson's an expert in tre because this is the first time you've ever been you know dealing with a tree expert and
because this is his first time he hasn't been accepted as an expert a tree expert before why don't you straw po everyone before the chair makes her ruling because the chair you know she does the inial rulings and they can reverse on a majority vote why don't you just poll
people to see if people are comfortable declaring and accepting him as an expert that's great T you want to go down the you want me to or you all right James yeah I'm fine he State licensed Contin continuing
education credits and most importantly John Morgan Thomas thinks he's thinks he's Donna yeset yes Randy yes Steve yes Russ Jim you okay yeah yes I'm okay you accept
him as an expert yes okay I accept well now hey Mr Pearson now you can tell people you've been qualified as an expert front of the board don't forget that that's your I'm I'm as an attorney I'm tell him you should do that was the rid and Township Board of adjustment you have no idea what that
[Laughter] means okay so he's sworn in he's all set um I'd like to have Mr n again still in the road just kind of go through the changes to the plans and uh then from there we'll go through the questions that remain outstanding in your experts
reports okay all right good evening now we don't need to submit this because this was submitted to the board correct this is a demonstrative exhibit it's one of the sheets that the board has all you got to do is tell the board which sheet you're going to be talking about sheets
five and you need a microphone with you it's sheets five and six okay sheet five and six of the plan the plan set that's titled amended site plan last
revised February 7 2025 correct correct okay okay so we made a number of revisions as Mr Thomas said earlier we had a meeting with Mr Thomas uh with Mr McCarthy was there Jeff was
there and oh that's right John Tully was there thank you um and then myself and uh and Todd and and the applicant were present to go through basically what we talked about last time uh work out the details as as best we could in there on on how
we wanted to to address the concerns that the board had so we sat down um had that meeting uh Todd had uh modified the his uh remediation plan the Arbus report that you have before
you uh we took that plan and converted it onto what is sheet six of the plan set um the notes and the recommendations and the protocol for that 5-year period of what that is just a just a quicking for a second so
Forest Glenn arborist LLC tree evaluation remediation plan prepared June 25 revised January 14 2025 do people have that we don't have that I think that was only submitted to Mr Thomas was
this thing let's ask our board secretary is was this thing up in that Rec on the website no yeah I don't think so no so we got to mark this as an exhibit do you have extra copies of it and also can you
can you submit it electronically to the board office yes um yeah well we're going to say that we have exhibit A1 exhibit A1
is the thing that was attached to applicant attorney's letter that said exhibit a just put a one next to it exhibit A1 is the amended the list of relief she submitted that with her
letter today so exhibit A1 is the Pioneer developers list of relief amended preliminary and final site plan approval in addition to whatever Miss kazinski read into the record in her opening statement exhibit
A2 is going to be the farest Glenn arborist LC tree evaluation remediation plan last revised January 14 2025 okay so um hold on this
is your copy all right make sure I give this to our board secretary after we're done with it and so you board members do not have this so you're going to have to explain you know go through it fa enough and now you're responsible
to give it a Taylor you know where her office is know she that was a little [Laughter] creepy it's gonna be one of those nights tonight uh so Punchy that's
okay so the the report is um I think the better way say it's generally consistent with the prior report taking into consideration the the comments that we had in the discussion with uh Mr Thomas
to really break down and specify out different treatments for different areas so I'm going to flip this over to page so page six is the restoration plan which
incorporates what is in the forest Glenn arborous report um if you're looking at your plan set along [Music] the right hand side or sorry left hand side of that sheet he's talking about
no yes there is a tree maintenance protocol on there and that's really taken from the the recommendations within that report and uh making sure that they were all actionable items within there and really breaking out the different areas because as we talked
about last time perfect I'll tell you what can we take a quick break let's get this thing let's get this thing scanned let's get put up on the screen so the board members can follow along can we take a five minute break you rather have the
report than the plans on the screen no I'm GNA do both but can you give A2 to Jeff he's going to scan it right now email it over to Taylor call the meeting back to order so what my suggestion is is to
have Mr nusser ask our board secretary to put the tree evaluation remediation plan A2 up on the screen ask her to go to whatever page he's talking about so the board can see what he's talking about uh what these recommendations were and then he can go
back to his plan to show how we took the recommendations from the report and put them on the plan so if we could go to page four of the plan and Chris can you pull that microphone a little closer to you yes
great just trying to give myself space and not just be eating the microphone but so as we're making our way over to thank you um so the the plan previously had a
more um sitewide protocol for dealing with the trees as opposed to kind of more area by area uh and when we sat down and we met what we talked about was there were and I think we may have even talked about it
in the previous hearing there are different areas that should be treated differently based upon um their characteristics there's the as it's shown on restoration plan sheet six there's like there's the
Eastern tree area which is over here and that was the area with the biggest concern I think from the board and from Mr Thomas those are mature trees that are providing some screening to the
residential development to the east um and so the means and methods being used there is the I forget what John's um if you call it belts and suspenders or gold standard or however it was referred to
last time that that gets the uh the full kind of package of what's that the trees so if you look in here here meaning in the report in the report p on page four there
are uh the fourth bullet where it says there are seven mature shade trees and five younger shade trees in the Eastern tree line that would be this area of particular concern there's a recommendation for doing air speeding
and Excavating trenches 10 ft off of the retaining wall to the existing hedro making the trenches in that orientation as a report says will Aid in movement of rainwater
away from the compacted root systems The Trenches should be 8 to 14 in wide and 12 to 16 in deep and should be backfilled with a mixture of organic compost and the existing soil mulch so there's uh recommendation made in there
and what we had done on the plan in the tree maintenance protocol again as on the left side here of sheet six is to um to take that and uh make it a little more to take it away from being a
recommendation and make it a part of the plan part of the plan and something that that shall be done um and and so just as you go through here I don't want to read through them all at nauseum but what we did was we took this
plan and we like I said we modified it so that it made it part of the plan and made it something actionable and something enforceable and it um as opposed to being year based 2025 2026 as you can
see her on sheet four uh it's you know year one and then the subsequent years what would happen in there in in each of those years so this being uh year one and and the start
of that plan um and year one being obviously 2025 so year one is referenced on the plan you're dealing with each bullet point underneath 2025 on page four of the report correct C can I ask Mr to John Thomas a question
just unless the board wants him to go through every single bullet in the report and how and whether they put something on the plan the general question is are you satisfied with the report in general and
if you have anything in particular that you're not satisfied with could you tell the board that's that's my first question the second question is let's assume the board is satisfied after everything that is said this
evening I imagine that there should if there's an approval condition it should incorporate by reference the report with the dates by which these things are supposed to be done but anywhere it says should I should make it a shall so that's those are my two
[Music] questions Mr Thomas answers that this could cut down the amount of time spent on this report there may even be some portion of his report that I think might address some of those changes in the plan yeah
and and I think the short answer is yes generally I'm satisfied with the report as as revised and it was revised we discussed a number of these the initial report in our in our meeting that Mr ner was uh uh
describing um and again one of the things that was discussed is that in the arborist report that a lot of the items weren't actionable they weren't written as a spec technical specification so that was in that was included on the plan and just kind of in the short form
here in my original report you know I said something to the effect like I I think we you know what we need to do here is uh you know the gold standard of remediation uh my discussion with Mr Pearson and I agreed with him is that
you know when when you have this kind of disturbance underneath the root zone of trees there's you know there's not a real great fix because you can't get in there and and simply decompact the soil and I'll give an example some of the board
members might have been around during one of our original solar applications where we had a incredible problem with soil compaction by multiple passes with trucks and the solution was and this was
something I worked at with Mr Capo the township engineer what happened on that site was is we had one of the local farmers with the biggest I've ever seen using a subsoil plow plowing down to the depth of almost 24 in we can't do that
under you know under these conditions I would that would kill the tree right away so what we're doing is kind of trying to develop an some kind of approach so how you can't you can't do that physically but there are a few things you can do and one of the things
you can do the gold standard is this process with an air Spade which has been described as you know kind of cut they they do that with radial trenching um what is radial trenching what is an airspade so an
airspade is simply a very power powerful air compressor and amazingly when you direct that and it's specific to the to the aricultural compressed air uh it blows all the all
the soil and even some rock out of the out of the soil you can dig a hole with it but it's like a kind of like a sand blasting machine it leaves the roots intact because the roots are flexible so you know even this you know it causes a
tremendous amount of disturbance you only do it if you have to uh but it's a it's a good way we've we've used it on in my practice on jobs where we had to install utility lines underneath and we can you can you know do excavations with
it it's very time consuming and it there is a disturbance that goes along with it so the conversation that I had with Mr Pearson was maybe there's some areas where this is appropriate where we think the trees are more valuable and and
where the disturbance was the greatest so is that reflected anywhere in this report and that's reflected in the report and on Mr naser's plans it said in the area at the help me Chris on the the Eastern tree area the Eastern tree
area it's refer it's labeled as the Eastern tree area and then it says within the tree maintenance plan 3.2 on here for the Eastern tree area yeah my my concern is those trees aren't specifically
called out on the plant would I think it would be helpful which nine trees you're talking about explicitly and which seven and it so if I if I may that that's why we took the Arbus report
and we turned it into this plan so that we could make it more actionable and make it something that everybody could understand so those trees are what he's referring to is these trees over here that's more than nine trees so that's
where I I I don't know which nine trees in that area this this is going to be this is for that and all the trees in that in that space what he's saying is they went over inclusive so even though the report
pointed out nine all the trees in that area are subject to this note is that correct Mr yes and that's the way that's the way I interpreted it so it's it's it's we he sort of he sort of grouped them together and made the areas larger
are there any aspects of the report which are factually inaccurate or you don't agree with in if and could you if there's any factual inaccuracies can you correct them and if there's anything that you don't agree with can you tell the board about it so they can discuss it because the things you do agree with
I have a feeling that the board is going to trust your judgment on it so yes and and let me just finish one last one last piece here and the piece was so those trees in that area on the Eastern side that whole big
group were using a variation of the airspade treatment which is the radial trenching which is digging out the trenches with the airspade putting good soil in other areas on the site we determined that I I agreed with Mr Pearson that we could use the method
that he originally proposed which is a u basically a a air and water injection in the in the root zones of the trees and that's to occur in the other areas of the site and and quite frankly and I think it says this exactly in Mr n's
report that we in in the in the in the notes that that the first step is we're going out to the site I'm going out to the site with Mr Pearson we're going to do some shovel tests we're going to exposed get down to the actual soil
level and at that time we'll kind of do a final evaluation and if we see something that's substantially different or what neither of us was expecting we may modify this plan I mean that's the that's the that's the bottom corre that is that is correct that's note number
three it says in the spring and then it says note the exact remediation methods are subject to the review of existing conditions by the arborist and landscape architect the scope of the initial treatment shall be detailed in the initial arv report and approved by the
township so yes it would be if any modifications would have to happen at that time that's that's and then to to get back to Mr drill's question about kind of I did have a couple I a couple of factual items that
I wanted to correct that again assuming that at the end of the evening there's approval coming out of this and that a condition of the approval is going to take
A2 and put it inserted as a condition I'm going to need the arborist to submit A2 as a word Dock and email it and anything that you're about to say about corrections have to be corrected in it
so can you get a pen in your report and start taking notes on whatever Mr Thomas is about to say [Music] just can I can I ask a question first I I understand where you're going with that I and I appreciate I thought the intent that I thought the intent of the
discussion of having the this report turned into the plan was to make it so that yeah you didn't have to do that that the recommendations would be made into but no I I understand that when I'm talking about my bad page
four and five where it has the schedule 2025 2026 2027 2028 do you have a note on the plan that does that that's the main the tree maintenance protocol that's on this sheet that's on sheet six is this turned
into the actual item okay does a year one year it says year one year two okay it says year one and then years two through five because they're okay so it doesn't it doesn't say 2025 2026 it uses year one year year two all the way
through year five right because this actually starts at 2024 on page three and so all right that's fine so this doesn't physically have to be but if any of those someone has to take notes of this because I don't exactly know I don't know what he's going to say number
one and number two if any of the notes have to be changed because this I guess Chris you have to take good notes on this and I'm gonna end up asking Mr Thomas to somehow send me something but if the notes have to change to yeah consistent to what he says or maybe
they don't but maybe the report just has to be changed so and if I could just ask a question for clarification we could do it now or later we've got year one we've got 2025 when does this start because we are not done with construction we are not done with an approval so I just want to
let's keep that in mind so we know what this time period is is it a year is it a year from a certain date when does that go we should also address that good point start what page are you on I'm on page page three five
okay and this was really just kind of a uh it's page three of five and it's [Music] sorry it's in the section of Mr Pearson's report
U called initial site inspection report and I think this is kind of pretty much unchanged from his initial report started P that started on page 205 um and um well let me just start the bottom of 205 because it's the same paragraph
and it says ation is the next priority our initial evaluations and recommendations may be altered in some specific root zones as soil is remove as moved or removed which is kind of what we were talking about upon discussion with the site work managers and Vis uh
visible evidence it appears that Machinery used was of track variety when driving within the root zones track equipment delivers the least amount of pressure per square inch of soil which I agree in theory but you know I wasn't on
the site looking at the equipment I know they use very large equipment on the site um it also goes on to say much of the soil that is encroaching on the root zones was moved through either gravity or rain run off which I'm just going to
have to say I don't agree with I think this should be removed from the I think this is not not not correct I I don't think editorial comment it's not necessary and you basically don't believe that it was
uh moved through gravity or rain runoff unless gravity is dumping off the back of a very large truck uh it it's the condition that we had just to be the condition that we had on on portions of the site was we had 3 to 4 feet of soil
filled around trees that's what I saw when I was first on the site I have a question if that's true what you're saying what does that mean in terms it do it doesn't mean anything in terms of what is proposed as a solution here I
just wanted to okay yeah but wait second he's saying it doesn't change the remediation part of it he just wants to make sure that as a factual matter the document's accurate and that uh the fact that all that soil got around the trees
we we had testimony in December on what happened it the testimony wasn't that you know it rained so hard that the soil just you know moved like that and and just for clarification I was just talking to Mr Pearson um this was the
state of the property when he went there it was his belief obviously that particular statement was in the report initially prepared on June 25th that wasn't part of the revision in January that's what he's saying okay don't just say right that's why he wants it removed
from he wants that sentence removed from the report and I think that's probably what he did witness when he was there but that was after the first round of soil being removed so it's it's a it's kind of a different animal and then he also goes on to say this soil has been
in place for a months which it it had been in place for nine months at that point nine months to a year so again he he he he was at the site at a later date but this soil have been place for a number of months inad of a few months
correct and everything else and everything else is fine but I just I I just it it it quite frankly it made it sound a little less serious than I felt it was anything else so John John down through the sentence where it says ironically the same soil has provided a
positive the temporary effect within the covered root Zone that's factually not well I I I'd ask Mr Pearson to explain that but I think the idea was is that we had some very hot dry weather and there was a at the time there was a
cap of soil left on that wasn't 4T deep and it might actually have been cooling the cooling The Roots that's that was my that was my supposition so is that is that correct at the time at the time but since all these things
were and I don't know if it's more appropriate to have an addition to this with these comments as opposed to like a Redline or rewriting of the report if we do an attachment the condition is going to say that A2 needs one more
revision okay okay to knock out the things that Mr Thomas is talking about right and again these comments aren't about the the proposed remediation it was simply just a kind of a background okay and John I'm sorry you had another
you had part two of your question okay I so one other thing to note here on the tree maintenance protocol that's on the plan it includes um
inspections by not just the orist on a regular basis but also Mr Thomas um going out with him to do the inspection to look for um you know the the conditions of the trees if any of the trees are dead
you know we talked about last time and there are notes on here as well if any of those trees were to die um and be removed that there would be the there would be replacement trees for that as well which uh we
added the trees from the the tree index from the original plans here onto the onto the pl so we know what those trees are so we don't have to go look back to to Mr Thomas has point to me we don't have to go look back we have one plan set and we can see this is what the trees were so if any of those trees do
die we know what the um what it was and and what that mitigation needs to be for those trees and Chris I don't think it's I don't think it's on your plan but I just want to ask John I think it's going to be part of the resolution John that you had said
if there's a if the inspection is not met and the arborus is not available that the owner would take on the expense of the township having an arborist meet that
schedule something to that that that that was that was my recommendation just as an an Enforcement issue like if if we say we we're going to schedule these twice a year in the fall and nothing happens or we don't get reports my recommendation
was is then the then the township would would would hire their own arborist at the applicant's expense to go out and do the same thing because it's in his report it's not on the plan it's but it'll be in the resolution
and obviously after notice and you know at that point so if we were not responding to if we're not responding to when the inspections are scheduled then obviously it's at that point obvious okay we'll have to figure that out I'm not g to agree to anything like that
right now but where where is that on his report where in your report is that [Music] restoration yeah the no something this is on John Morgan Thomas's it's uh and his report I
believe yeah it's at the very bottom of five so page two of John's report under paragraph five the very last state the last uh sentence so instead of having a note we'll have a condition in the resolution stating if the applicant
fails to conduct inspections issues issue report and Implement required actions the township reserves the right to engage in private Arbiters at the owner's expense you don't need to do that it is on the plans can't hear you it is on the plans okay where is it on the plan it is restoration note number
five restoration note number five it is on the plan okay so on the on the right side of the plans that note was included thank you and maybe maybe the condition John to your point as long as John now
it's a note on the plan understood understood but we're going through to make sure that everything that's in John Thomas's report that we've agreed to is on the plan maybe the condition is if there is any that's missing we'll put it on the plan that's a good idea that way
it's all encompassing and we don't have to worry about it okay can I ask a clarifying question about one of the the notes um where it says um trenches under under the tree
maintenance protocol year one note number 3.2 it says the trenches shall be back filled with a mixture of organic compost and existing soil SL mulch is there a percentage of organic matter that you'd like to see brought in so
that it's not wood chips that are on the site and as opposed to real compost like do are you looking for a mix of 50% compost and then 50% soil mulch mixture or what's the ideal
mixture because I think it's it's pretty um nebulous about what would comply um I'm I'm gonna let Mr Pearson and my answer would be that what we're putting in the trench
is mostly compost more than 50% we we don't have we have some we have some Top Soil issues on the site any anyway so I don't know what the top soil component is going to be so I think it's going to be a soil
mix that's high in organic matter right but I think I might ask Mr Mr Pearson right now to to to just indicate what in his opinion what the proper mixture should be in those
trenches so you kind of put me on a spot here um my desired response would be I can't really answer that question until I see the quality of the soil that's there if the quality of the soil that there is high in organic material and I think just
mixing in a little bit of wood chips and I mentioned perhaps biochar would be sufficient if we found it to be you know depleted of organic material which I doubt in a would in a previously wooded
area I doubt that it would be depleted um but if was depleted then I would you know kind of Base it on that I mean you could say 5050 is pretty pretty high that's a lot of compost um you might actually generate a little bit of
excessive root growth in the trenches um and not digging deep where they really need to to survive long term so it's a really hard question to give you a direct answer without knowing exactly what's there if if I if I can
the the recommendation in or the the requirement in the maintenance plan was that there's an initial site visit between you and Mr Pearson um he's going to provide a report with those recommendations and that report would
include a recommendation on that for your approval from a from an amount of you know what that what that looks like okay based upon that I think I think that's fine that that makes sense just to be clear that doesn't mean
dumping wood chips in the trench and that makes meets the uh standard so correctely there are exess wood chips around that site yes and this will be to John's gonna have uh John's gonna have
final say final say on that so that's yeah not a so I guess I'd like that that no clarified that says you know that it should be backfilled with a mixture of organic compost at the direction in agreeance of with our
landscape it's note number well either in the report or in the notes on the plan it's number 3.2 give [Music] me oh that's it's not okay give me not on the
plan six of 10 sheet six of 10 note number what treatment maintenance protocol protoc year one year one 3.2 3.2 read me what it says and then read me what you want change um well the
trenches shall be back build with a mixture of organic compost and the existing soil mulch okay it amounts to be determined but based on the recommendation and approval of our you want
add to the end of the sentence maintenance am I mean per for the guidance provided by as determined by the board landscape architect yeah I just think it needs to
be okay clear do we do we want to say determined or approved I mean appr I think just to John's point I think John would prefer approved thank you and I just had one last or one one
last comment about the the inspections one of the intentions here [Music] was I'm not in the report I'm on the notes where are on the all the points be one of maybe not one
of the most exciting hearings on sheet six of 10 which is the restoration plan and these are the notes that Chris has been referring to tree maintenance protocol and this is really just informational for the board but we have we have
basically an inspection in the spring the ARB arbest is inspecting in the summertime and this is um you know year one as well as years two through five and then there's an inspection in the fall where I would like to be present
and that's where we look at the condition of the trees the existing trees on the site as well as the planted ones and if there any trees that are dead or dying existing or
planted trees then we want those trees replaced that season so we're not we're not correct so that's what the report that's what this says that's and that's
what it's that's exactly what it says I just wanted the board to be aware that we that's that's was informational wasn't he wasn't making a suggestion or a change to the report he was just identifying for the board and for yeah yes I know you were trying to go okay wait what do I need to change what do I
need to write down but the answer was nothing and the okay sorry and and the reason and there and the reason being that we don't want to wait till the end of The Five-Year warranty period and then start to replace trees we want to
keep going so that is in the notes and that is correct thank you so much John John John we're looking where were you in the maintenance protocol restation if you're looking at the restoration notes and you look at say
3.1 it says an inspection shall be performed by a certified Arborist so in the spring in the summer there's a a number five Su an inspection shall be performed by a certified Arborist but then number six for in the fall it says an inspection shall be performed by a
certified Arborist along with the township landscape architect so it's just there's three inspections throughout the year but John is present for one of them and that's where the you know looking for the dead and dying trees would be identified and replace
that season that's I think the point he really wanted to make that we're not going to be waiting we're going to replace it going to be identified and replace that season obviously okay anything else no thank you all right so I had yeah I had a
little I had a little uh like very brief outline and I've I'll start it now um so uh within the plans and I don't have this plan printed
but the tree canopy removal plan um which is sheet seven we we had updated that based upon the discussion last time to include the areas that were Disturbed underneath the tree canopies um so that relief is revised
and that number is 89.7% so we 76.9 6 was approved 8109 was what it was previously um without the the area underneath the trees included now uh
with the area Disturbed underneath the trees the number is 89.7% hold on for a second so exhibit A1 you're saying has to be modified item two Caris submitted with her letter look
at item two the variance from ordinance section 29675 S2 in order to permit the removal of she has 84.9 what are you saying that what should that figure be 89
8971 89. 71 just so I can understand explain explain how you got to 89.7 one again so if you look at the tree canopy removal plan which is the aerial plan on
there we had the initial initially approved removal that occurred there was some additional canopy areas that were removed and at the last hearing the discussion was that what also needed to be included within
the um canopy removal based upon the definition of the ordinance is any areas where the root zones and the trees were impacted and so those areas were included as well and that's what brings us to the 89 so give me the initially
approved removal was 79 point I'm sorry 7996 no 76 96 76. 96 96 the additional area removed
was 12.74% 12.74% [Music] rather be higher than lower right okay next Point um so the changes to the plans there's a couple things that were included can I just I'm sorry one
clarifying question around the tree removal so that yes but that doesn't include the tree removal that was done on property that you don't the applicant doesn't own correct this is on so there was additional tree removal on property that
they don't own that was New Jersey do property and Township property it's true well why you think about that answer can you just clarify for me so on Caris exhibit a so she had what was
previously approved is what number 7696 it should be 76.9 it should be 76 .96 okay and then in order to permit the removal of what number 8971 okay thank you then I'll I'll edit
that I do that I it's an exhibit right it's an exhibit we're just going to mark up the exhib so no it doesn't include any tree removal that occurred on an adjacent
property and I we we did not so calculate that because frankly the ordinance is what occurs on the property so how do we deal with that I don't know do you have a
calculation though do you know yes they do do you have a calculation for how much trees were removed on Township property and how much trees were removed on do didn't document them at the beginning so they don't know the can't calculate
how much they removed they didn't have a documentation for how much were there do know how many sare yeah see put it this way can you somehow estimate by by looking at the so can we
take another five minute recess so we can do an estimation and John can you go over there with him hey calling the meeting back to order I believe we took a break to see if you could estimate somehow of what
how many or what sort of trees were taken out on at least the municipal property um not so much the do property I think the question was more about the municipal property so Mr ner did you come up with anything no no I mean if you look at the to go to the dot
property that was had been previously um I believe that was previously an agricultural field it had been ceased to use to be used for that and there's a lot of sessional growth there's red
seeders that grew in uh but for the most part the area that was filled there's a couple cedars in that in that space But it was really all just scrub and new trees in that area in my opinion along the
municipal uh boundary there and across there when you say the municipal boundaries it's not the municip not the municipal boundary the municipal property right yes to the let's just Orient to the north okay so it it's it's hard to say uh based upon
theprint quality of the old plan that I have um and and what everybody's able to pull up on their phones to look at say what it is looking at the old plan that I do have um I mean to me there's you
can clearly see where the trees are they're on an angle you can see that there's a gap and then they start again but where the filling was related to those trees whether it impacted them or not I don't know I assume there's some impacts
within that space um I believe that's I know it's Municipal property is that's also the landfill I believe that's the municipal landfill the old landfill not not used for that now so I don't know is that within the
limits of the landfill I don't I I I never knew where the limits of the landfill were but it's on that counter slope there because it's really yeah but would it matter what if it's a landfill if it was a landfill or have trees gr on a landfill that's correct I mean there was there was
proposed Landscaping um or a question came up of proposed Landscaping on Township property was not agreed upon just because of the the situation of the landfill and um concerns of over it so can we request
stabilization and receding of that area and shrubby you know some type of landscaping at the direction of our landscape architect we we are proposing to Res to stabilize and seed and restore
that space in that manner but again if it's in within the limits of the landfill it's ground upon the plant anything yeah I wasn't asking for trees I was asking for stabilization I mean even shrubs anything that would penetrate through the capital landfills
General you went in there with machinery and bulldozed and Disturbed area so you know it's kind of no I look I I understand that it's kind of counterintuitive to say now you don't want to put any kind of you know warm season grasses or something like that
that would stabilize the that would be fun warm season gr and I think that might even be what I don't know whether that's I don't know whether that's indicated on the plan the rest of the Disturbed the rest of the Disturbed portions of the site in including the
new reforestation areas uh have have the native Meadow mix that we requested right that's been added to this revision so if that was used on these Disturbed areas that I think that would be appropriate so is there is there any
indication on your plans about rest ing or do I have to make that a condition there is notation about restoring it but if you want to make it a condition because I'm not sure that it's 100% clear that that area is okay so I'm gonna make this very easy I'm gonna ask
Mr Thomas to write me up a condition about how you how they're going to restore the municipal property and the suggestion by Donna Drews is the same sort of grasses native
so that what what Chris just said the the meadow mix that's already specified within the plans would just be extended into that area so the store and stabilize right so John you can give me language before I leave the municipal building tonight yes yes all right I'm
yeah but when it ah okay so look to see if that notes already there or or we have to add it and if the effect is going to be the same and it's about to suspend two
places I don't all right can we make sure we're speaking to the microphones everyone all right you'll have to read them just see how you here is note number three
restoration apparently it's note number three and everyone's reading it right now to see if it covers the situation currently or if that note has to be revised in any way you need a [Music]
microphone I'm looking at on sheet five the Landscaping plan there's uh note 14 and 15 that says top soil and Seed all Disturbed areas and then all remaining Disturbed areas shall be seated unless otherwise noted I would
only I would only add that this includes offsite areas because it's kind of not the usual situation talking about give me so we're going to add reference to offsite areas also to notes uh
15 and the offsite Disturbed areas are clearly on the plant that's just a question just want to make sure that we know exactly where those what's Disturbed what's considered Disturbed area it doesn't say Disturbed areas on site it says Disturbed areas and the plan clearly shows period okay the
Disturbed areas on it so the plan CHS the Disturbed areas on the township property also yes and it shows it on the NJ do property yeah if you go to sheet which was in there previously it
shows the limited disturbance what she please eight there's a green line and an orange line the orange line was the disturbance and the green was the actual limited disturbance and it shows the disturbance as it
went offsite offsite so we are okay so John note 15 is on what sheet of the plans okay so how about this as a condition in the resolution applicant shall restore Disturbed areas on Municipal property as well as njd
property per note 15 on sheet five of the pland that cover it [Music] okay okay so Chris where were you going next after I think I was gonna stand up
actually all right so close we're on sheet five and and I just wanted to note um a couple of things on here actually I thought it transferred on there and it didn't so I
apologize we're going to look just quickly on sheet four on sheet for the the conservation easement area was limited to the most restrictive of
the D buffers basically on the property uh based upon Jeff's report and his recommendation the conservation easement was modified to include all the areas beyond what will be the ultimate limited
disturbance so not the limited disturbance but you know it will it will put the areas that are within the um that were Disturbed and the trees were Disturbed in those areas where the reforestation is going to happen to be in the conservation Eastman area uh so
that area expanded out for his request and we could do a calculation of that area also yeah we'll provide a a uh a description of of that as requested in the in the engineer report um we updated the Landscaping
plan John John my my plan is he's just finishing up some changes then I'm going to go through Jeff's letter D engineer's letter John's letter and say item four was open he addressed it this test item six I'll go yeah not not trying to okay
but uh okay so then um I'm not used to just sitting here listening but I'll so we have sheet five up uh that we're looking at here on the board and that plan was modified uh based upon the meeting that we did have with with Mr
Thomas and the other professionals to modify the um the landscaping and the replacement trees to to meet his request that we you know in some places reduce the Evergreen species being planted um
and otherwise um make sure that everything was to his satisfaction um and then therefore the tree replacement schedule which is on that plan right above title block just just for clarity of what is an
on-site tree that is an evergreen those are a little bit larger uh what is an on-site reforestation tree what that means caliper inch wise and then what's left as an offsite tree or either an off-site or
paid in l a tree for that amount so then totaling that total required replacement tree of 2566 caliper inches um as is noted in Mr Thomas's report and that includes the old
trees the ones previously approved to be removed that needed to be replaced as well as the additional ones that needed to be replaced and I had that calculation for that split for John's sake um as an additional
366 caliper inches removed um after and then 2200 trees or 2200 caliber inches of trees very big difference you say caliper inches versus number of trees 2200 caliper inches of trees um that had
to be replaced as part of the original approval is this we have a charter or something like this so why don't we get this thing marked as exhibit A3 Chris just give me a name this A3 is a chart of
what uh replacement tree requirements okay chart of replacement treade requirements so yeah sure let's go for the numbers first before we do dollars yep let's not do that I want to ask John Thomas to review this chart and find out if he
agrees or disagrees with the numberers of trees on the chart so the 2200 and I do have a question is it based on this new number of 89 Point whatever 71 or whatever it was no the so
the be very clear the 8971 number right the let me take this step back and we'll I'll get to that that's the canopy dies trees so the 2200 caliper inches is what
was required to be replaced as part of the original approval 76 whatever the yeah the overage of the excess of the 55% up to the 7679 the additional 366 caliper inches
doesn't take us to the 89 whatever that number is because a lot of those trees are still standing remember those trees are there on remember they just they Disturbed
areas of that percentage the trees are still there there's a condition that if they end up dying they're going to do something about it this chart as I understand it forget the dollars for now but this chart on the numbers which I'm asking John Thomas to check the numbers the top part original replacement tree
requirements is what they were approved to remove and the second part is the additional trees per the amended cine those are the additional trees that they didn't have approval for that they removed right all I want is I I see the
numbers I just want to wait till John runs through it and see he agrees with the numbers yeah and let me let me just explain how the numbers are are in here so the the 2200 as I said was what was required to replace as part of the original the on-site replacement is what
we're showing on sheet five of the plan set the total caliper inches corresponding to the two lines that are on that on that chart the off-site replacement is based upon the three sites
that Mr Thomas had provided um as off-site mitigation places where we could plant uh was included in his report those three yes three sites yeah so the the three sites are on there totaling the
950 trees which again from last time 950 trees an inch and a quar caliper one and A4 caliper inches per tree gets us to the 1188 caliper Ines offsite leaving a payment in L for the
original of 343 Cal per inches which equates to 275 trees yes if they were the one and a quarter inch so I'm I don't want to do the dollars
yet until I find out from John if he agrees with those the numbers the caliber inches and if we take the 2200 calber inches from the original approval on the first line plus the 366 calber inches on the amended site plan on the
bottom portion those two total the 2566 caliber inches in John's report correct those two numbers together match that 256 old and new Mr Dy to to your question again none of those numbers count for the trees that are shown in
green here on the restoration plan those would be handled separately you did testify earlier that those you do have numbers if something dies there's a correct yes one one now so John those numbers check
out yes I think that we're if we're working back to the 2566 as the total number that is the correct number okay now go through the calculation because in
December I according to my notes first of all the question was do the new ordinances apply or not and I gave my opinion that they do because the amended site planine application in my opinion is a substantial Amendment under the
municipal land use law and case law if you have a substantial Amendment it's considered a new application correct under the time of application law the ordinance in effect at the time of an application which would be this new application applies therefore I rendered the opinion the new ordinance applies
the new ordinance is $300 a tree if you're not going to plant it the old ordinance was $75 a tree so I'm assuming that the fee in L total for all trees removed per the prior ordinance at
$6,600 is based on $75 a tree so it's B well it's based upon the the the largest size tree and the cost associated with that right because the way the ordinance worked previously was you it was a certain amount Pere put it
this way right whatever it is the $6,600 of the prior ordinance but if unless the board is willing to change because the board agreed they were pulled they agreed with my opinion and I thought that Miss kin you then said here's our plan when we
come back we going to have a mixture of onsite tree replacement off-site tree replacement with a cash and loop payment based on $300 a tree that's what you said the applicant said so are you here asking that the board reconsider that I am asking that the board reconsider that
I this is my opinion to keep it simple why don't you just do plant everything and there there's no issue about pricing keep it simple yeah actually Mr Thomas you gave him three sites how many sites are available for planting trees in the township [Music]
I reviewed this with with with Jeff and the environmental commissioner we probably I'm going to say at least 10 sites at least 10 if not 12 so if there let's say there's 10 sites not even 12 sites are there enough sites that if the board said you know what we're not going
to grant you that that exception you got to plant them all either on site or offsite do you have enough sites for them to plant all these trees plenty so the board could say could deny the exception and say plant them all which I
have a feeling cost probably more than $300 a tree but you can still ask the board if they want to reconsider so what you're asking us to not charge $300 a tree which is what our grw ordance that's what I'm asking yeah and
I don't want to it's I don't want to get into that argument considering all the issues which are happening so I'm just recommending that let's just have the they don't have the space yeah they can plant the remainder of them John Thomas
says the township has between 10 and 12 sites and what you're saying yeah that's what he's saying what I'm saying them all plant them all and don't do any don't do any in L payment plant them all can I just just I just want to put on the record so everybody's clear the
differences between the ordinances I my client is here he's going to hear everything but I just want to show the differences there's a little bit more and again just for the record a little bit more than just the payment and to Mr John D's question that very well may be where we end up or the board asked to
end up but if we look at the old ordinance the language of the old ordinance says that if it's impossible we replacement so I'm looking at section 29675 T is in Tom subsection 4 where
replacement trees are required but not suitable for the particular site because of site constraints then there's a bunch of different site constraints that are listed the township shall impose a fee in Li of planting or the applicant has the ability to plant replacement trees
on public lands designated by the township so the old one appeared and again just for the record just to make it clear so it's there to give the applicant the option the township shall oppose the fee unless the applicant
agrees to read the read the ordinance language again so the old one where replacement trees are required but not suitable for the particular site because of site constraints including but not limited to and it goes through yeah but including but not limited to lack of
space uh slopes topography grading runoff Wetlands flood Plaines riparian or Associated buffers storm water detention or retention facilities existing structures exist in easements or and any other physical or environmental feature which physically
impedes the option to plant the replacement trees okay then the township shall impose a fee in lie of planting or or the applicant has the ability to plant the replacement trees on public to me that's not giving the applicant the
option with that saying the township shall do one of the other if the applicant has the ability to to do it on other sites the T then it shall that they have the it's the board that has the option and not the applicant that's
my opinion of what that language means what's the new ordinance the new ordinance says same step subsection subsection T four believe bear with
me that is T four where replacement trees are re re ired but not suitable for the particular site because of site constraints including but not limited to and basically has all of those same
indications I just referenced the township shall impose the fee in Le of planting or the applicant has the ability to plant replacement trees on public lands uh it's the same language the difference is the dollar the dollar
amount okay the both the Old and the new in my opinion say the sh is the Township's option not the applicant's option so under either ordinance whichever one applies in my opinion if the board says you know what we don't
want to haggle around with charging for trees we want you to plant them and Mr Thomas your expert says we have 10 or 12 sites and it can accommodate all the trees you could just say we're not granting the exception plant them now
I'm just going to say one more thing just to make a complete record subsection five of the new ordinance that talks about tree replacement schedule that has the number of replacement trees shall be the equivalent of 1 to one and a half inch caliper trees a fee and Le of planting
may be allowed to be calculated based on current market costs in the event you know I'm just going to start from the very beginning let's let's put this completely on new ordinance T5 tree replacement schedule a the number of replacement
trees shall be the equivalent of 1 to 1 and 1/2 in caliper trees or greater needed to equal the diameter at breast height of the removed tree in the event that replacement trees are not feasible on site or offsite at a designated
Township owned site stop if they're not feasible onsite or offsite here John's saying they're feasible off site keep on going yep at a designated Township owned site a fee in Li of planting may be allowed to be calculated based on the current
market costs per caliber inches B 5B the replacement of trees whether planted on or off site is preferred rather than the payment of a fee in Li of planting payments in Li of
planting shall only be allowed if the applicant can prove to the township satisfaction that the replacement plantings are not feasable so the only additional point I'll make for the record is that that to me indicates the
Township's preference for on-site planting versus payment in fee whereas the language no no not just on-site on-site or offsite is preferred so what actually what what he just said is true under the
new Under the new ordinance correct so under the new ordinance whereas the old ordinance I submit to the board is a little different because that other indication and preference was not specifically spelled out the preference wasn't spelled out but in my opinion
both ordinances gave the board the option of one or the other so again if my opinion under both ordinances you don't even have to consider the preference of the second ordinance you can say under the first ordinance the old ordinance or the new
ordinance even though it's my opinion the new one applies assuming it doesn't apply assume the old one applies the language is the same in my opinion that the the board has the option of either letting them make payments in L or requiring that they deny the exception
and require them to plant them off site and that's your that was my recommendation yeah so why don't you straw pole yourselves you don't even have to get into the dollar amount I want the trees you want the trees s all of them yep planted planted want the trees planted
planted planted I mean planted planted same planted planted Jim trees ores are money planted Tre so that makes it easy thank you Jim what the board's gonna say is they're not interested in
any any money any fee and L of payment so they want the the they don't want a payment in Lou they want it all off site so you're going to have to redo the chart so why don't we take another five minute recess have them redo the chart we don't
need to redo the chart the chart on the plan is the chart that's on the plan would be no but it says offsite replacement oh but on the chart on the plan has the caliper inches of trees to be offsite Fe andl and it
just okay all right so the board was you can ignore the I mean the exhibit was the exhibit for purposes of discussion what the board has indicated the only thing I would ask if we're going to take a break or if the board is no don't you don't need a break now um
timing of planting completion of planting because the next issue is going to end up being should the board act favorably on the application we obviously have resolution compliance um resolution
itself um and I still have some other things I'd like to go through with the board on the letters um from the professionals but to the extent that things can continue including we have a
pending stop work order we have building and Zoning permits that we would love to have reviewed with the understanding the pure understanding that there is no occupancy no TCO no Co nothing that can ever be done by way of occupancy of this
building unless every te is crossed every die eye is dotted every board professional has signed off on it and that is purely within my client's control if that takes them a year and a half if that takes them four years if that takes them six months but
granted due to actions that have occurred up until this point we've been delayed and we're just trying to recoup as much of that delay as we possibly can knowing that we have things to satisfy of the professionals and of this board and again that are purely within our control
done at our own risk to the extent that we can but so are you saying that you don't think you can finish tonight or you think you can finish tonight and if we were to approve this you want to continue to move forward before the resolution is correct that's what that's what I would love okay but I'd like to
keep going so we could finish up this but I just wasn't it wasn't about finishing tonight yes correct I think we very much like to do that and I yeah everybody else does too so yeah what I'm saying is that that we're going to have
to come up with timing for satisfaction of resolution compliance conditions and one of the conditions is clearly going to be replanting of all of these trees off site which is going to take a great and that's not going to happen we just have to put a schedule together correct so in addition to that I'm just kind of throwing out there that we would and we
could put something that says John Thomas will meet with the arist and determine the best time to plant that many trees and yeah I mean the short the short answer is the tree work that is being discussed should commence in the spring and the planting should happen in
the fall of 202 that's that's the short answer and we can work out the detail Mr D I missed that what is she asking for she should wait until she okay I did I did I'm confused now
considering the history of yeah she so she's ask ly what they're going to ask for is trust them they'll take care of it they don't want want anything held up anymore that's okay let's continue let's finish
yeah let's finish so just to clarify so you uh the offsite planning you would say would be a fall 2025 no he's saying in the spring all all of the all of the tree planting all tree planting all reforestation tree planting
should be fall of 2025 yeah if they want to plant their some of the ornamental trees the Landscaping trees that can happen this spring okay and and then any of the tree work that's being we're talking about commencing the tree work
the for the tree remediation work that should happen the sooner the better this spring so that's all reforestation tree planting 12 2025 all tree remediation planing spring
2025 okay one way that can ask tost performance normally wouldn't be able to law this is mediation and Restoration in
my opinion I think we could make to ensure the tree plan okay we ready yep okay okay so at this point unless the board has any other questions of Chris I just like to go through each one of the letters um we
could start with Rock's updated letter um of engineering review number two dat of February 14th um just starting on page two zoning this to make this go smoothly if you
agree that whatever they write here can be a condition of approval don't say anything it becomes a condition if there's something that you don't agree should be a condition or you need to clarify something or they ask for testimony on something then address it
okay so the first one here would be seven Chris has indicated that there is no addition that one um eight we've already dealt with
the landscape architect uh we to the extent we need to address other comments in this letter we will do that with regard to nine um soil test number 109 was an offsite test I think I could just really
quickly just make it quicker for everybody yeah this would be really good the soil test all-encompassing was to look at the condition of the top soil on site and to look at the compaction for the tree remediation instead of dealing with
trying to argue about how we feel about certain results that came back we're just going to say everything that was discussed tonight between John and Mr Pearson that will be what will be done for the tree remediation so the compaction testing is basically null and void at this point we don't need to look
at it anymore the Lance there the tops I just want to make something clear it's not that you regret having it done what they did was not what you wanted done some of it yeah there was a little bit of more information we would have loved to have had um I won't get in the semantics of it so right we're just
going to say what was agreed tonight I'm comfortable with as far as what the compaction is and John is comfortable with as far as the tree remediation so so put it this way that means item nine in your report I can just make a check meaning it's not a condition be
satisfied exactly okay um and then one other quick thing about it there was some issue with the amount of gravel content in the top soil again that's a construction issue not necessarily as a part of this that'll just get taken care of we're recommending they have to remediate it but that would be a normal
process anyway during the construction period so which it was more for informational purposes it's not it doesn't need to be the last sentence of number nine any approval granted by the board should be conditioned on approval of these items by our office in the
landscape architect this is now we don't need an don't need it anymore okay okay 10 we had testimony with regard to the conservation easement that information will be provided so we will agree with that right that will be
a condition yep 13 um Chris can give testimony with regard to what was done with regard to the self-reporting so the the easy testimony is let's hear about that y self-reporting was done uh
I called in to the D hotline and called in the violation I spoke you're talking too softly in your M sorry explain explain the two options for reporting because I think that's very important for the board so there's basically two reporting options one is
they have a a phone number you can call on to to the call center it's usually it's more predominantly for spills uh the other is they came out with an app and it is horrible I figured I'd try the app um but
you know when you say what was discharged your options are oil sludge um like you know not that soil was placed within a um within a transition area so we can't send an email or a letter and get something back
so your option was to make a phone call so I made the phone call um that phone call was made it was logged in by the system uh the land use enforcement group called me this morning morning I spoke with
Colleen she's pronounced her name I I not going to try stop at 10 o'clock yeah no I know uh and and so I I forwarded some additional information to her based upon that conversation and she he she had emailed back um confirming that they
had received it and gave me the incident number that they had logged it under and that email was forwarded to Taylor today um and the board's professionals to give them notice and then obviously any further conversations that we have with the state and any requirements that they
have we will keep the board's Professionals in the loop as it relates to that okay so Ryan you you saw that email for the record it was uh today at 107 okay so this doesn't have to be a condition they've done it I'm just check it off you want to mark that email as A4
you know what yes good idea you have an email for me the mark it I already have it in the board application folder okay this is it okay Mark this is A4 this for the record this is an email to Chris nesser dated February 20th
2025 no this is from Chris ner to Taylor and this has the whole email chain with the underlying email from khen SAA date of February 20th 2025 at 12:27 p.m. got it thank
you all right next is um storm water management 17b the onm manual yeah I mean we can we didn't resubmit the storm water report as part of this so the stor the again this is a condition you don't have to say anything about this I I
think that the issue was that it wasn't provided and needed to be revised it's not going to be revised because there's no need to it but res sure the only the only yeah the only comment was I had the report and then it references the manual we just wanted one fully here's here's the whole thing just package that's all
absolutely all right so that and everything else was fine so we're good there um just wanted to Circle back on Jeff's letter and that was number 18
uh the only thing that's outstanding is so Conservation District approval which we will get that certification from them I think one of the things we wanted to make sure was that there's a lot of s mediation activities and the the tree remediation that we have in here we want
to make sure that what they're approving is what you were looking for because what you're looking for is above and above their standard it's the standard board condition yeah we were only addressing things that needed to be clarified I did I talked to um the district manager today and he knows to
expect it okay so moving to Jeff's letter and this is Jeff's letter of December 16th I'm looking at page two there's items one through nine
um one is done two is done three as built survey submitted four hold it hold it hold it two you you're G to identify all the variance relief that's required we did
oh Jeffrey hold on I I didn't put that out put that in there I have a copy too with the revisions yes that is correct perfect thank you onite okay but after they do all the
remediation have to another survey yeah yes that's required surve yes yes okay four we got the update from soils there's nothing new uh either
required or updated from the RTM edus is that correct remain is that correct for for SS or for RTM we haven't we haven't seen any any update it was just uh this was asking for just testimony um they they provided
provided testimony about uh Hunter County Soil Conservation District but so far I don't think there's been an update about RTM you have an update well the edus Remain the last letter that we submitted I don't have the date of when that was but if we need another updated letter
again showing that they remain in TAS we could do that it's not only the the edus but my understanding is that there is some some work being done on site regarding the RTM that correct hold
up yeah there is some ongoing compliance with RTM to make sure they're satisfied okay well I don't know what what does that mean yeah my apologies I thought you were talking e yeah no it's a I mean it's
really a construction related issue vacuum testing what I'm being told is vacuum testing one of the manholes to make sure that it's sealed and it was installed correctly I mean Jeff if you have something else yes that's the understanding we just need a confirmation from them
you have a confirmation from no from the RTM you want a confirmation that it was whatever they asked be yes all is of that issue was
successfully complet how's that that's okay okay now what about the H County Conservation dist that's the same that's the same we just talked about that we need to get an updated certification that be yes yeah that was already on
along with any outside agencies under 15 it was there under 15 uh okay uh conservation easement we dealt with and Jeff um just to confirm Jeff the limits of where we extended the
conservation he's been to you're good with that yes this one the conservation is shown on the plans correctly correct yes but don't they have to also we still need to
record and provide provide a sign detail on the plan and and sign locations and everything that's reort yeah we got change this okay item six landcap it six is now going to be
changed well it is true says landcape review was discussed in detail during the initial hearing waiver 55% not accept John you got to talk in the
mic look at number six number address that right I'm just saying because when I when I watch the video it's it's hard to hear you okay so number six was the fact that the board was not amendable to accept the Fe and L of planting and you
you guys just affirmed that affirmed that and made that crystal clear and we we did that okay so what about item seven so seven we're still requesting that c variance in the event that the township does Grant either the vacation
or the right of way easement um what's the status of that we have not heard anything from the township with the exception of the fact that do um involvement may be necessary so to be honest we're trying to get through
this and see where this ends up and then we'll focus our attention on that so what you're saying is you're seeking the variance from the board but if the board grants the variance it's going to be subject to at minimum C of committee approval correct
to have the sign in the right of way correct and potentially NJ do approval correct for a vacation so hold on it wasn't it wasn't NJ do for the vacation oh yeah to get them
to to the vacation right okay item eight that's the variance that you've requested correct and item nine okay exhibits prior to the hearing and I think that covers couple
hours before the hearing but it was before the hearing in John's report you have to go l in John's report there look there were some additional notes they didn't do John's report yet he did the testimony she's going to go through
John this one I'm going to suggest you go through in detail okay so let's start again this is John's report February 20 2025 um so let's start with item one um item one I think really just outlines
what the revised plans show with regard to caliber inches on-site trees reforestation trees and and all of that description um I do see the plans do not indicate how the off-site trees are to be provided um but I believe that based
upon the discussion that we've had um and the additional sites that are going to be identified and the schedule that that will satisfy that comment unless John there's something else you'd like to sayone yeah this was just referring to the plan didn't reference what was going
to be onsite and offsite and we've resolved that so it was referring to number nine where that was discussed some more so I think that's we're satisfied than two has complied three has anywh they say has complied that
means I don't need to put any condition on [Music] correct do not read the has complied go to the ones that does not have a has complied or that has a Noe for example five says has
complied number seven's the next One S so seven states a note should be placed on the plan that at least 10 species of reforestation trees be provided for the on-site reforestation trees final plant list for on and off
site reforestation planting to be submitted to the township for approval we don't have any issue with that okay that's fine thank you eight nine currently the plan in okay so let's
look at this plans not indicate provided I think that's been resolved yeah that's discussing where that's been resolved correct but first number nine okay okay 10 notes added to she five refer to sheet 20 of the original
application in reference to tree replacement and Basin planting all applicable notes shall be included in this plan set note one and two of the retri so is this covered with the general condition that all comments in
the arborous report we'll make sure that those are included as notes on the plan well these are these are the first one is there's notes on this plan that refer to the original approval plan and the idea here this this is a condition because we just want we just want to get
it in one package so when we're doing inspection okay um 11 sheet nine not consistent I I think this is fine for a condition as well yeah the notes that are on on sheet nine are just the standard Soil
Conservation District's notes about um soil decompaction so just just just what you were saying earlier that we need to get the two to Jive and that they're not working at Cross purpose yep right so it's a condition what about the last sentence of number
11 right we that's we've talked about that twice now that we need to do that I'm gonna strike that out of John's because we I'm GNA have a condition that you need to get the hunter County Soil Conservation District approval right and my condition is going to be the first
two sentences correct yes yes okay number 12 um uh I think this reiterates yep it's a condition and what we're specifically looking for is we we we we have the
three sites that we've already indicated we have some more but what has to happen before we start planting is we need to review the sites and to get a detailed plan for each one so there's no it's not fuzzy it's not just this blob that I've
shown on my plans it's it's got to be something specific so I think honest that helps everybody I think it it helps you have things where you feel that they're appropriate the town have them where they'd like them and the applicant clear on where they go and and the
things that need to go on with you know the site clearing corre and so forth so that all has to be spelled out in these plans so that would be great thank you so I do have one open question if we can get to it so it's to ran um I think we I
I had it in a conversation or email um just to get it on the record uh my concern was about the retaining o after I watched the video again how we were how there was this retaining o that was not put in and 100 feet or so and so my
question to Ryan at that time was uh not being an expert of course does that uh uh create structural uh weakness in the parking lot or something like that so I just wanted to get it on the records reply to my question concerning that so
uh the the retaining wall that was missing was along the southern portion of the property and the the whole purpose of the retaining wall um was to limit the amount of disturbance it was to have an access road to get to the Basin and the idea of the retaining wall was we would put the wall in then not
have to grade out into areas and create more disturbance um the fact that that wall is not there does not do anything structurally to the parking lot it just expanded limits of disturbance which is the whole reason we're here tonight there's there's no there shouldn't be any issues with the parking lot or
structural Integrity because of the missing wall and just to confirm it also does not change anything with the storm water correct as as uh submitted by Mr ner the the new storm water report still indicates that they're meeting all the state requirements thank you very
much at the point please address the variances and the exceptions that are need have listed so can someone explain to the board why they should [Music] Grant start again so at this point
unless any board members have any further questions of any of the witnesses I think some applicants witness should address the relief they seek yeah and so we discuss this I I just want to make sure he's been qualified as both an
engineer and a planner hold on let me Che got that hold on he's identified as an engineer a planner I know that you qualified him as an engineer just to play it safe qualify him as a planner can you please provide your qualifications to the board with
regard to your planning license I am a licensed professional planner in the state of New Jersey licenses is in good standing I have practiced um and have you testified before as a professional
professional planner yes have you testified before this board as a professional planner certainly have and have you been accepted as an expert by this and other boards in the field of professional planning I have you accept him as an expert in planning yes thank
you so so we had three pieces of relief one being a design exception and two being the relief the first being the monument sign we talked about in detail last time the monument sign I'm really I'm having a hard time understanding you Chris you got to talk louder and you
gota not M CH Chris can I ask a favor could you try using that mic just switch the mic we're thinking that it's the mic's just give it a shot thank you better better or not better well
better anunciation but still soft you got to yell all right I'll yell I'll yell so three three pieces of relief two variances and one design exception the first piece of relief was for the monument
sign we talked about this in some detail last time the monument sign where it's [Music] approved you can see here well that's a terrible plan to choose but we'll use it anyway uh was located inside the
site at the end of what's known as barbish Drive um it's not very visible you can't you know it's not helpful for wayf finding to anybody to have it uh that
deep into the property the request was to place the sign out on Royal Road where it could be seen and direct people appropriately into the site um so again this was
promoting the safety the public safety to make sure that people can efficiently get in to the site nobody's slamming on their brakes late trying to get in because they can't see the sign or they're driving past it six times it's a C2 variants with traffic safety yes it
would be and the relief further that the sign be placed five feet from the right of way of Royal Road where 10 ft required was again because we are in this narrow right of way um where we don't have control of the neighboring
properties and the visibility of the sign would be diminished by having it further back we needed to have it further forward so that it is visible along the street uh again for the same reasons of promoting safety of the
traveling public the second piece of relief is permitting the tree canopy removal to 89 71% this is uh I think and somewhat
interesting one to thinking through it earlier today really are you permitting that disturbance it's already happened right this disturbance has already happen put so put it this way you can't it can't be
a C1 in my opinion it can't be a C1 hardship because there's cases that say you can't Grant the C1 to correct an error correct and and you certainly can't Grant the C1 to correct something that was self-created correct they did it intentionally so you need some sort
of C2 argument right so it would be a C2 and yeah what's the C2 argument so the C2 argument on here is you know look again looking to the benefits outweighing the detriment and obviously there's been damage to the trees that
was not um this board did not want to see um the efforts that have been made and the the protocols that are being proposed and the conditions that go with it for this plan to number
one [Music] um must be snowblowing outside I guess is that what that is salting um number one the the tree maintenance protocol uh where the air spading that
was discussed earlier and the the multiple inspections per year and that whole process of trying to um maintain the trees that are there and reverse the effects of the additional fill that was
placed upon those trees number one number two a commitment to replace any of the trees within there that have been um that if they do die you know commitment to replace those trees
number three um the substantial reforestation efforts um that will be undergone both on and off site as a result of that additional disturbance and then I think finally also the expansion of the conservation
easement on the property to include these areas to put them within the conservation easement so that ultimately I know it's not today it's not tomorrow it is in some time but as those trees grow back um that the canopy on the
site would be greater than even the amount it would have been where you previously granted the relief at 7 6.96% because of the the reforestation efforts on the property so I think um
you know overall what you get from the benefit of granting the relief is all of those mitigation and restoration efforts and conservation efforts with the the negative of not granting it I honestly
don't know what what it would look like if you didn't Grant it because it it has been done the negative would be that you're not going to get those those efforts done uh and and the site would just kind of sit there and be
stuck and and are there any Residential Properties adjacent to this property listen I don't even go there I think good argument he's made you got yeah okay thank and then just the last the final ones are the design exemption so
that was for uh the guard rails that were installed on the site we talked about this a bit last time as well were the standard galvanized rails and not the core1 steel which is the weathered steel
Brown look which is the um the town's design standard um what the discussion was last time that we had about this was that these are not publicly seen they're not out on along the road the you know
the the one guard rail is right above the detention Basin in the rear of the site facing inward you know it's really an aesthetic not a it's not a safety consideration it's really just an aesthetic consideration of what those
guard rails look like um and so um being within the site itself it would be you know wouldn't be visible from the traveling public and to be honest it it may be the town's standard but I mean I drive around and
yeah I would not make that AR I would not make that argument the township has a standard you you said it it's an aesthetic stand it's an aesthetic standard yeah and there's no aesthetic detriment to the public because it's inward facing don't attack the standard but
right use the standard to your advantage okay and then if the board grants those two variances and the exception with the imposition of all these conditions I assume it's your opinion that the amended site plan would
comply with all other zoning ordinance Provisions which haven't been granted variances previously or this evening and all site plan ordinance requirements that haven't been granted exceptions previously or this evening and therefore the board should Grant preliminary and
final site plan approval subject to all the conditions is that that your testimony yes couldn't have said it better that's the case I just one I just had one question about the the proposed sign oh you're not asking
anything so you get that microphone the the proposed sign that um is 5 feet from the right of way um visibility there's not going to be any additional clearing proposed no the reason for this would be
so there would be no need to contact you know the dot if you could get them on the phone about clearing on their land to to have visibility that the idea is to have it forward so that it's visible without having any obstructions from the
existing vegetation okay thank you car my suggestion is first to note for the record the only people in the public are here with the applicant there's no other members of the public here and then it's my suggestion that
before they make any request outside the application that the board deliberate and vote on the application then if you have any requests to make make them you if you want to make them now you can but if you want to get a nice vote before you make the requests that's what I
suggest you do and you're not going to make a closing argument yeah you're I assume you're going to wave your closing argument unless there's something that the board feels they have not heard I'll closing argument okay you want to close for deliberation anybody want to go
first I'll go thank you so I'm in favor of this application I just want to make a couple of comments uh one is as far as the the monument sign issue I think that's a right thing to do for the
safety reasons as it was mentioned without elaborating um very very very disappointed about the second one where as we said error was made and uh it's unfortunate
however you're correct in your argument that if it's left the way it is it's worse than right where we're going and uh quite frankly I was very happy with Chris the way you explained everything I
could see that there was a lot of honesty there and I I believe that we do have a good plan of remediation okay so thank you for what you went through and it was very hard but I appreciate that okay I I'll follow
that up I Echo everything that uh res said um I will I hope the applicant understands the work that they had to do to correct a lot of the stuff that happened here um and I I say that with all due respect because I I I do like
what the uh plan is with all the conditions but you kind of put these guys in a bad spot with pers of what happened I wasn't here in the first day but I I did watch the video um so I thought you guys did a really good job of of saving uh a a potential really bad
situation because it does make us it puts us in a bad spot when things like that happen because other applicants are going to say hey well if I guess if we do this and we we mess up we can just do what you know Pioneer did um and I'm not
saying again I don't think there was Ill motives there but I will tell you that it puts us in a bad spot I think you guys saved this very nicely um so you guys deserve uh a very uh Round of Applause for what you did because he explained it well you worked with these
guys um and I think what you were able to do really put it all in perspective for us um I was glad to hear about the sign to be honest um because I went by the place today and uh I know it's locked up but the sign is definitely
needed out front um so I'm in favor anyone else want to go yeah um I'm going to be in favor just because we need to get the site remediated you know um but I I think the conditions
need to be clear and concise and I encourage the applicant to take every opportunity for full compliance within the Tim taes that are provided I would agree with what Donna said uh wholeheartedly um
I feel I'm being dragged through this um not happy um I don't know if it's going to be complied with um we had a resolution and walked out the door and this is what happened I I don't know how we
recover um I I I'm not even sure what to say I I just you know I manage projects all the time and if things go off the rails you have daily meetings and that's what you do in it and I'm almost to the point of
saying well we should have oversight and I know that's not going to make anybody happy the applicant's going to be really annoyed the poor professionals are probably giving me daggers right now saying daily meetings would be nuts but I I don't know how
to um believe uh I'm just hopeful I think you guys did a very good job recovering um um and I think that we are where we are anyone else you can talk okay you can always
talk even if you can't vote well you could talk into the microphone talk the microphone thank you Taylor talking to the microphone page there uh well in truth I wouldn't really be saying anything that wasn't already said um everything that everybody said I
agree with wholeheartedly this could have gone a lot worse but it could have gone a lot better and I'm glad that we're getting some resolution to it and that you're going to make good as best you can so as long as you stick to the plan we'll be good I would vote Yes if I had a vote
tonight I'm gonna ask Jim to speak first okay Jim did you want to say anything and he froze yes can you hear me CH yes can you hear me okay I uh basically I think that they recovered
very well from stepping on their own toes basically my major concern when when we look at the number of conditions we're laying on these that the applicants are well informed that the
variances and other approvals we give are are based upon their agreement compliance compan our suggestion these our reir who who's speaking
I said acceptance agreement and compliance are are essential for this this type of thing to work I'll vote for it I think it's still a good project I just not so sure it was managed well from the
beginning thank you Jim L Jim I appreciate what you said and actually my comment goes upon what you were saying so the thing that caught my eye in the original approval was number 12 having to do with sewer capacity and
of course I do truly hope that the um tenants um you're planning to occupy the buildings that you're able to comply with that and there's no um that you're planning and thinking about all that now in terms of the evus you're going to
need and that you have um you've been be able to meet those EV requ without any further trouble that's a really important thing all right um can I get a motion to approve obviously with all the
conditions a second can I get a roll call please chairwoman Miss Cynthia Schaefer yes Vice chair Miss Russell DOI yes Mr Randy block yes Mr Steve fario yes Mr Jim Ferrero Jim yes okay
yes misstina Miss Donna Drew yes okay now I'm on yeah now you have some requests or do you want to make okay so
in in like first of all thank you thank you all for your time your consideration and your comments um we all know that this has not been a great great experience a great situation for any of us um I'm glad we are where we are and
to be honest I I feel that we're all in a better situation now even after all of this than maybe we were before um what I would ask is obviously we have the next steps in the board's approval we have a resolution that needs to be adopted with
uh has to be drafted first corre it's going to be a monster correct um with what I know and agree need to be very specific conditions so everyone is clear as to what is required um we do not
anticipate being anywhere near this situation down the road everything will be taken care of um but the reality of this is that we have lost a great deal of time um we have lost enough great number of tenants um we are still
continuing to move forward we have the edus of course consider and we will make sure that we are within the allowable edus um but we have to make up for some lost time um there's currently uh stop work order in effect we have building
permits and Zoning permits uh that we would like to move forward explain exactly what approvals or permits are being held up and by whom so the you might be able to be more specific um but
there are in internal building permits so stop for a second if if there was work being done that was stopped yes was work was being done by virtue of permits correct so which permits were issued and
which permits they issue stop work orders on and who issued the stop work orders the stop work orders was issued across the board for everything um at a certain point we were allowed to do site work to remed mediate
the disturbance put it this way when applicants come before the board and they make requests the the request the board can't tell anyone what to do but the board in the past and because they've done this for some of your clients also if there's not a whole lot
of conditions or if the resolution is going to take a long time or whatever they say can the board ask the zoning officer to issue a zoning permit before the resolution because if the zoning permits issued then the construction permits can be issued the problem here
is zoning permits were issued construction permits were issued stop work orders were issued I don't think the the board who do they ask the zoning officer has nothing to do with it I think this is the township
attorney who's advising the construction code official because I think those are the permits that had to stop work orders now is there anything other than the sto work orders that are that that your client needs and are being held up so
there are also building permits for internal bathroom work that have not been processed hold it hold it hold it that that requires zoning permit appr as there's a pending zoning permit okay so so hold up so the stop work orders by
the construction Department are not something the board can do anything about so you're saying you have internal construction permits and what you're asking on those is you're asking the board to ask the zoning officer to issue
the zoning permits for bathrooms for bathrooms so give me specifics what else do you want the zoning permits issued for bathrooms and what else that's so the zoning permit for the
building permits for the interior bathrooms the other zoning permits would be we have tenants that are coming in asking for number one a determination that their use Falls within what's been allowed originally this another
condition number 12 sewer or something else both both um now the RTM must it's more it's more of a clearance of of if the use specified use is permitted in the respective Zone not related
to it's like tency review it's a use review if somebody just says because remember the original approval allowed for a number of different is that being held up because of this no well everything's held up
because this so your first request is that the board ask the zoning officer to be able to issue a zoning permit for the interior bathrooms so that you can then apply for and obtain construction permits for the interior
bathrooms correct correct second request is that the zoning off that the board ask the zoning officer to now process the the use what it's a determination the use
determinations right that that's the second request that the board should ask the zoning officer to process the use determinations before The resolution's adopted correct I'm sorry say that one more time massach first one you're asking the board to ask the zoning
officer to issue the zoning permit for the interior bathrooms which is being held up the second request is the board ask the zoning permit the zoning officer to process the use determinations before the resolution is
adopted right correct correct any other requests because again you can ask you can ask the board to do something about the stop work orders but in my opinion the the board can't do anything about the stop work orders even if you wanted to that's the township attorney talk to Joe I'll I'll reach out to Joe have
anything else um the only other would be as the tenants come in the tenants will also need to once they get approved for this Zone then they have the RT muua edu thing correct which there's that I'm
looking at as as separate to the extent that the zoning officer needs to be involved yes I don't necessarily know how involved he needs to be it's required for a a TCO or Co correct correct but we're not even there yet
because the other issue is tenant fit outs that require processing of permits for fit outs to get to the C so if if if we don't know what the use is how can we approve a tenant fit out so the cart
that these are you're asking for everything that we would like so knowing how long these other things are so I'll just say not knowing how long these other things will take and knowing and with the understanding that no occupancy
whatsoever I understand the request so zoning from it to allow the interior bathroom work not up to me but that to me if I'm a board member is an easy one processing the use determination is an easy one if they let tenant fit out work start
meaning if if they allow zoning permits to issue for tenant fit out work that's a potential problem before the resolution is adopted Cara I'm thinking if you have possible tenant coming in either you just have to send an email to Jeff and I so that he can look at the
usage but that's it he's just saying yes this use would be permitted that's it it's not on a form it's not like anything because because because listen here this is what can happen like 25 years ago Flemington South we had a a big
thing okay and they the township was like okay we're going to let you fit out all the apartments and everything but no cosos until you you record this deed restriction and they didn't record the deed restriction and then we battled it out in court and they had a widows an
orphans case we have all these tenants they're you know they're sleeping in cars now luckily judge Bernard ruled in our favor I handled it for the township okay but I can see all the tenant fits out the place just to clarify I wasn't
asking for the permits to be issued what we would just like to do is have everything ready to go but so so this is just I know that we've been dealing we've had discussions with Mr s sillo and and it would just request the
same you've had similar requests with so so so let's use an example maybe that's the easiest way to do it so we've got a tenant that's coming in the tenant submits an email saying here's how we want to use the property Jeff writes back and says yep that's that falls within we go to the RTM RTM says yep we
need three edus that's fine that falls within we're great okay now the tenant has their plans they want to submit for building permits no to right okay so so look you can ask them but our advice on that is issuance not issuance processing
so that when everything is squared away the problem is once you submit it that that statutory period starts to run no so I would say on that one wait till the resolution's adopted and the normal course I I I would Grant her the first
two requests to you know to authorize to ask Jeff as a zoning officer to issues the zoning permits for those interior bathrooms and my recommendation is for the board to
ask Jeff to process the use determinations but then wait in the normal course for the resolution to be adopted and resolution compliance for the other stuff and maybe after the resolution is adopted um you're very close to resolution
compliance now because you you basically made the vast majority of changes on these plans anyway um and and then go the normal course from there that's my recommend just just to be clear zoning approval is required before
any building or construction permit that's completely understood again it was really just a matter of to have every duck in a row so that once that last thing is done the horses are ready to get out of the gek that was really just the attempt that we were trying to get
to that's we were trying to how long is the process so I get it it's it's let her talk go ahead I'm sorry Jeffrey but I'm the one who does all the processing of the permits I understand where you guys are going with it but that process
for a tenant to go in is us the Fire Marshal's Office and then construction you guys would be perfectly fine just getting the use done but you have to get that specific form filled out and then you have to do the other aspects with the fire Marshall's office
then it goes to construction I do not want it going here there everywhere else and then oh wait okay now they're done I understand you guys have lost a lot of time but each department is so
understaffed we are going to do our best to help you guys get along with it but you're looking at the zoning department right now I I can't do anything more and I'm trying my best to let you guys do a lot more and based on what Jeff can do but
we can only do so much okay we're going to do our best to get all the these tenants to come in and I'll be sure that Jeff can see each request that comes in that's all I'm going to say okay good you're basically hear if the board even ask
her you got your answer because okay so this is no motion or anything but does anyone object to asking Jeff to do the first two requests okay
problem no problem okay and and at any time just so I'm clear and this is probably more of a question for you if at any time a tenant had plans and just kind of wanted to get some feedback from the construction Department the building department they could go sit with them
and say hey does this look right am I meeting all the code requirements they could always do that right I I can't speak on their that they usually they usually work work along with any and plans but it's just more of having us on the same page and and yeah no plans are
going to them and not coming to us and everything must be consistent understood um the only last question I have is resolution compliance as far as plantings go do we have he said John said he gave you oh you did you did
resol late I'm sorry you're absolutely right you did we good you did think so yes I would recommend that the board members not throw out any of this not that I'm I mean really I'm
keeping it hopefully we won't have to use it again okay can I get a motion to adjourn second all in favor anybody staying I'm