not making it calling to order the Zoning Board of adjustment BR and Township New Jersey regular meeting something's wrong with that microphone you can't hear me Oh no you're coming across scratchy oh all right hold on okay does this work better no not really that can everyone else can you someone else their mic and see testing testing yeah sounds good it's the chair's mic of course test yeah that's a good idea I'm GNA bring you an emergency mic I got one I got one good okay this work again testing one two 3 yeah kind of it must maybe she's too close all right so now now is this better yeah okay so all right restart Zoning Board of adjustment R in Township New Jersey regular meeting May 16 2024 the notice requirements of the open public meetings act has been satisfied by the placing of a notice of this meeting on the bulletin board at the municipal building filing same with the Township Clerk and transmitting same to the har County Democrat the CER news The Star Ledger and the treaton times roll call please chairwoman Miss Cynthia schaer here Vice chairman Miss lindsy kber gal here miss lorett ktina here Miss Donna Drews here and Mr James Miller he is also asked to be excused board professionals board attorney Mr John drill here Township planner Mr Jeffrey Vella here board engineer Mr aesh Dari present traffic consultant Mr J Troutman here Township landscape architect Mr John Morgan Thomas here board stenographer Miss Jackie clap board secretary board secretary Taylor vau here can I get a motion to excuse the three board members who asked to be excused I'll make a motion I seconding that can I get a vote chairwoman Miss Cynthia schaer yes Vice chair Mr rul DJI yes Mr Randy block yes Miss lindsy K brel yes Miss Lorette ktina yes Miss Donna Drew yes that's hearing none moving on to distribution correspondence none and minutes no minutes for this evening moving on to the applications for this evening we'll start with the first application boa case number 06- 2023 MSP Hospitality LLC TA Travel in and Suites block 4.04 lot 35 482 Highway 202 app ation for preliminary and final site plan approval with d variants for manager suite and two family use I understand there's a me there's a correspondence would you like me to read good evening mam chairperson Steve Gruenberg on behalf of the applicant MSP Hospitality LLC um I forwarded correspondence to miss vau on May 15 2024 uh indicating that if you will recall at our last time we were before the board the board had wanted us to get architectural plans or floor plans of um the additional structure that was on the property my client tried to secure the existing floor plans and was unable to do so and has hired an architect to actually draw up floor plans they're just not ready for this evening I understand that um also a planning report was requested planning report and I did speak with m mcmanis about that quite honestly yesterday and she was prepared to send it but I didn't want to send a planning report the day before we were scheduled when I already knew that we weren't going to be able to be proceed forward is there anyone in the audience here tonight on board of adjustment case number 6 2023 the MS Hospitality travel in in Suites anyone in the audience here no keep on going okay so um my request was for us to be adjourned to a next available date without the need for further notice um I understand that might be an issue right my understanding talking with the chair is that because the floor plan hasn't been submitted and last time when the board continued the hearing they said okay they asked what date do you want and the one the closest available date you guys said well that's not enough time to get the floor plan so then they picked out tonight yeah that's enough time to get the floor plan they said they wanted it submitted ahead of time and it hasn't been submitted at all and in light of the amount of time that's gone by since the beginning they're going to say fine we'll carry the hearing but we don't want to give you a date certain and announced that no further notice is going to be given because what if the floor plan is not submitted and quite frankly they've been having trouble with their agendas because they tried to list the applications that they figure they can finish that night and these applications have been Fallen by the wayside they've had to cancel two meetings and then they have a couple and they have a backlog of applications and then they have ex excess meeting time so now they're trying to schedule more applications than can physically be heard in a night anticipating some are going to fall off and that's exactly what happened tonight the third application you're going to hear also fell off the first one your application fell off now luckily they scheduled four and so in fact you with your other client you're going to be very lucky because you might end up with most of the meeting but the point is they no longer want to just carry things to a date certain without need for further notice unless they know for certain that it's going to happen and it's not contingent upon something being submitted am I correctly stating what you said yes and I want to add and I know Ste Mr G this is not just for you if everyone were to show up this evening everybody would get like 35 minutes this is this is getting to be a scheduling night yeah um and we are attempting to move quickly especially through the resid ones and and we're finding that critical and hopefully try and bring it to more reasonable schedule and and at least have some people uh be prepared a little better I know everyone's very busy um but just an example there were four four of them I spent last night reading them I spent the weekend reading them and I'm sure I'm not the only one and it's just getting extremely difficult and um obviously residents are are frustrated also so we're just trying to put a little bit more pressure and get things moving a little bit you're not hearing any argument for me and and again it's not just you I'm hoping there's others that may hear this recording so so so here the bottom line is the hearing is going to be adjourned but a date is not going to be set until and unless the floor plan is submitted and the planning report is submitted once those are submitted then you'll talk with the board secretary she'll assign a date and then you'll re notice is that correct chair yes understood okay and we already in my letter I extended the time period for the board to act through the end of October to cover your schedule yeah so we'll be she'll be watching that to see when your plan comes in great thank you all appreciate it thank you all right moving to the next application boa case number why don't you go to number three right now all right let's get that out of the way yeah POA case number 03202 24 applicant is Thomas M Puli and conetta Stewart location is block 85 rot 15 71 Old York Road applications for a d variance request for an accessory department now I understand a letter came in late in the day on this one from the applicant attorney yes could you read that into the record please Yes Dear Miss vaugh consistent with our phone discussion of earlier today please accept this letter as confirmation that the above referenced applicants have requested an adjournment of this hearing scheduled for tonight before the zoning board to the next available hearing date the reason for the adjournment request is that the applicants must Reen notice for a D1 use variant and secure the services of a planning consultant the applicant hereby extend to September 30th 2024 the time for the board to act on this application thank you for your courtesies respectfully Erica Edwards now what do you want to do about this one because so so this is the one Jeff that has been going on since when did this start originally when 2019 and then they applied for an interpretation corre they applied for the interpretation in 2022 it wasn't heard until October 2023 and then what happened uh the board did not act favorably with the interpretation before the board was going to vote on it the applicant withdrew it because they saw it was coming yes and then they filed for a D1 us D1 us when was that in I believe earlier this year I don't recall the is this the first time this has been this is the first year yeah right and what is why did it take so long from then till now to get from reading that letter okay I can understand it's it's a blown notice okay so the notice was detected apparently they didn't list in the notice they wanted and the notice was so if it was just a blown no they would have to re not but the other thing is in the letter they said that they they haven't retained the planning correct correct so what do you want to do with this one do you want to I mean they have to re notice no matter what so if we dismiss it then they'll have to reapply yeah you could dismiss this thing and they have to reapply because obviously this is not if they don't have a planner this thing is not ready for hearing it was de complete the clocks running they extension for when now September 3 how many extensions have been granted on this one on this one just alone I think it's just this she this one was deemed complete and I offered her at least three dates so she knew well in advance that she had tonight so the is the question is you carry it and they got a re notice or do you want to dismiss this one without prejudice so they can refile it to clear it off the books and let some of the other things now what might happen is if you do dismiss it Jeff might issue another summons but they've been either intentionally or unintentionally dragging this thing out since the first summons from 2019 yes yeah what what are the other options so dismiss what's other things options dismiss adjourn this thing you can't do it to a date certain because it's a blown noes so adjourn it and then our board secretary is going to have to try to come to an agree upon hearing date which very tough with this attorney in this applicant the other option is just dismiss it without prejudice so they can refile but it's dismissed it's off the books it's not ready for hearing anyway whatever consequences flow from that Vis zoning office that's that's not your problem so when you think about it okay if you look at if you if you could look at Taylor's board and all the applications and the timing this comes off okay so it's not in the mix so we've got 19 so now we're down to 18 and Taylor doesn't have to worry about juggling this one around with us you're making that the res the resident reapply but this has been going on since 29 this isn't the first rodeo right and this is also this is not a typical resident you know they want to do an addition or something this is for an accessory yeah and we're trying we're trying to be extremely fair and streamline the process be dismissed withe dismissed without prejudice right so then they just reapply to to apply okay when they have all their ducks in a row Mak sense someone want to make a motion to dismiss this without prejudice I make a motion I'll second can I get a vote chairwoman Miss Cynthia shaer yes Vice chair M Russ DJI yes Mr Randy block yes Miss Lind K gel yes Miss lorett ktina yes Miss Donna Drew yes okay you can do a letter saying that they um denied the request for the adour to dismiss it without prejudice and they're going to have to reapply okay moving back to the second application for this evening boa case number 02-2020 apologies for mispronouncing anybody's name kupal Maj M location is block 7224 lot 9 8 Hastings Lane applications for C variant for exceeding the permitted square footage and height of an accessory structure good evening hope I didn't do too bad Hi how are you again good better than last yes okay Jeff do you want to um this history You Were Here on April 18th Jeffrey can you just move his mic to him you were here on April 18th and um the board went through the the application and without speaking on their behalf or it it looked like it was going in the right direction I think you sensed and what they wanted was a revised drawing to show show them what you were talking about yes and you have in fact submitted that correct yes so and you you remain under oath so why don't you take it from there um I think I've met the requirements as Jeff has told me and asked oh thank you I believe I've submitted what is the intention of uh the structure we've removed the as per you know I guess a Council and for Jeff remov the second variance that we're looking for the the height and now it's just a matter of one thing and if I remember correctly that's everything that we're looking for we're also looking for square footage which I think we got the uh surveyors to redo je yes that's correct uh the new survey reflects two so can you explain to the board now exactly what relief is required down to the square foot the total square footage is 1980 okay 19801 1980 square feet is the total square footage of accessory structure that's correct okay and the maximum allowed by the ordinance is 800 800 so the extent of the variance is 1980 minus 800 is 1180 1180 and the board asked him to also besides submitting the revised plot plan which is last dated April 24 2024 they also asked him to submit revised architecturals to show this cat this future catwalk thing which he did and reduced the height so can you go through that for the benefit of the board the height was reduced from what to what so the initial proposal was 22 feet 9 in and the revised height is now 19 feet 10 Ines and the maximum allowed for an accessory structure is 20 feet high 20 ft high so this now complies with that correct complies Y and why doesn't the applicant tell the board um I know it says future catwalk so future means what let's assume the board grants the C variance for the 1,180 squ feet over the maximum allowable accessory structures when would you have this um accessory structure built and then when would when do you envision the catwalk being built and the reason I ask is because generally when the board grants C variances they put a time limit on how much time you need to construct and sometimes it's anywhere between like a year or two years to pull a permit on something like this they'd probably give you a year to pull a permit unless you ask for more time up in front and if you know your timing I strongly suggest you ask for the time now so you don't have to come back and ask for an extension and then they also impose a Time limit to complete the construction and generally that's between one and two years but again if this future catwalk is like four years away you might want to tell them and ask them about it so what what's your construction schedule plans assuming they granted the variance okay so assuming the bo granted that variance the structure would go up in less than six months ideally um so in other words you don't think you need more than a year to pull construction permits or do you want two years just in case I I don't know what that means what do construction permits means okay let's assume they Grant the variance right you just can't start building right you have to go to the zoning office get a zoning permit the zoning office is going to look at your actual construction plans that you submit make sure they comply with the resolution assuming that's the case they'll give you a zoning permit and you have to go to the construction official and apply for construction per uh building permit electri Electrical Plumbing whatever you're going to have for the inside or for the outside for the inside or for the outside for the inside for the inside I hope to do in the next two years okay so you plan on constructing the building itself in the outside within six months correct and the inside including the catwalk within two years correct can I just make a suggestion yes why don't you ask the board to give you two years to get the construction permits and then if you don't mind four years to do the inside of the building if you think that's too much three years I respectfully yes that sounds much more reasonable what does the board think about this that sounds reasonable yeah that that sounds reasonable you don't want to back yourself into a corner yeah yeah need time need time to think is there any ordinance or anything John on that about three or four years it's the first time is there any specific requirement for three or on that no no in the board rules you have a rule that says You must impose a time limit on getting the construction permits and you must impose a time limit on completing construction and getting a CO generally for a c variant it would be one year plus one year but the rule says if you know there's special circumstances you can grant more than that okay okay and so this I mean you're going to I correct me if I'm wrong you were planning on doing most of the Interior fit out work yourself yes that's correct he's doing it himself it's not like it's gonna have a a contractor do the building right shell but he's going to do the inside himself yeah so I would think that the board felt that that was special circumstances that that would justify you know a departure from your standard one year plus one year to go to 2 years plus four years okay would you like four years yes I would okay all right before we go to any questions or comments or anything from the other uh individuals is there anything that anything else you want to present Jeff or or k you have anything else no hi we have any other in other words there any are there any conditions and it was just the square footage I just wanted to confirm if the shed is is going to be relocated to comp in fact I have to remeasure that I want to remeasure that but if it's not compliant I definitely want to move it to compliant location yeah I think we discussed last time I suggested imposing a condition to move the shed to a compliant location so Jeff why don't we go through it's measured at 14.4 ft right yeah I I had a now I've looked into like what it takes to move something like that for what is it like four inches six inches something like that not that complicated we can definitely comply yeah uh je this whole thing installed not installed if I recall correctly that was a whole issue we had about the Gaze it's counted towards the accessory structure so it's it's counted as a okay so there there are no Exceptions there to that no we we now know that the extent down to the square foot okay so I would just like to start off at at five my report okay this is your report dated May 7 correct yes revised right and just to confirm that there's not going to be any commercial use or any utilities that would have it wait a minute no commercial use correct but there are going to be utilities yeah right that's correct said yeah I need power he needs electric and he needs water yeah does does that mean from the Grid or can I just there's other options there like solar batteries there's other ways to do it but way yeah I think you want to ask the board to not they're going to impose a condition no commercial use that's correct I have no intention you don't want any condition imposed restricting you from any utilities do you no no I can't make something self generative that way yeah correct but I think that Jeff was that question leading back to some of the earlier discussion where like would this be a semi commercial gym where you'd have people come in to do exercise class under no conditions would it be okay so this is not there's no intent there's no commercial intent here whatsoever right that's the clarification Dan's point was also we talking about you have some exercise you're not going to use it as a gym no it's going to be used as a variety of things yeah one of the things is uh storing gym equipment storing uh ATV storing many many other things storage correct it is not going to be used commercially residential storage and growing Greenhouse vertical Gardens self-sustained vertical how do you spell that self- sustaining vertical Gardens oh vertical okay yes no intention Bing any bathrooms or no no no in fact I believe you said all you needed was a water spet I mean it's yeah but do you need a drain I'm hoping no um put it this way you want to SP it right if you figured out you needed a drain you don't want to condition saying no drain do you no no I don't so no bathrooms AG it's okay agreed no bathrooms all right any other questions before I go to the well again Jeff can you go there's other things in here that should be go through the report number eight uh extension of a drive way if you do so zoning permit would be required which way is extension is it like wide longer either anything any changes to the driver any changes to the driver yeah what yeah okay okay n is Tak care of 10 has been taken care of as survey 11 talk about tell them what that is so once the zoning permit is issued and prior to clear construction as survey would be required to reflect set of to the to the size can you clarify that and so it's going to be it's going to be an asil survey reflecting so this is a proposed Stout to reflect the the constru so you have to do another survey correct now here's the board's suggestion unless they want to make it a condition you know how your shed the existing shed instead of being 15 ft off the line was 14 and change yeah since you know you're going to have to pay for an asilt survey right you might want to arrange to have the surveyor stake out the building so come out put Stakes to confirm that where you're showing it on the plot plan is where it's going to wind up then it lessens the possibility of a mistake in its location being made and you having to make a return trip here understand so we have had applications get approved the contractor comes out and moves it and then you're in violation because they either moved the addition the solar panels whatever it was they didn't follow the proposed plan they moved it on your property you know what I have a suggestion why don't we make it easy for him why you add put a condition that they have that he has to stake out the proposed accessory structure prior to construction the bill building plus the shed no no the shed the shed exists he's going to move that to a compliant location doesn't have to be shown on the as it's already there I'm suggesting that you add a condition saying that the proposed accessory structure must be staked out and okay so so I'm GNA say yes because of what's Happening um where residents have been forced to come back and spend time effort and their own dollars and a lot of it swimming pools for contractor mistakes yeah so I so we're going to put this in as a condition to hopefully mitigate yeah your situation and possibly having you come back and spend money and being in front of us again can I understand this in plain English can just repeat it as I understand it before they put down the building they need to put down Stakes no not they before before the contractor does the building the you need a surveyor a license surveyor in the state of New Jersey to put down Stakes now he's not going to put Stakes down on the corners because then how are they going to put the foundation he's going probably put Stakes 2 feet 5 feet 10 feet from the corners so that the contractor can take a string or a tape measure okay off the stakes but the surveyor will know what to do condition language is going to say it's not going to say stake out the corners it's going to say that the accessory structure must be staked out by a surveyor prior to construction prior to the issuance foundation so then how do I make sure that the contractor abides by this that's that's the only thing I gotta worry about right that's the only thing you have to worry about okay because and if he doesn't I mean you got a clear-cut case against him if you don't have it staked out and he says how does this look and you say fine guess who problem is right right so if I take pictures put it out I take all the the measure make sure that the the surveyor puts down those Stakes make sure they're okay with it they record it however they do it and he's going to keep those Stakes going to remain in the ground yeah we did that before until my dog decided to just play with those so that doesn't always stay that way well then get the staks put in deep get steel pins and have them put in deep instead of you know cheap little wooden things right [Music] gotcha okay the only other condition uh to confirm is that storm water minor development will reir okay and on that one we suggested did we suggest that he contact a certain engineer who was pretty good with that yeah who happens to be sitting in back sitting in the front row hello not him Wayne that's right talk to him okay yeah so let me understand this this is so that when there's uh a lot of rain that we don't end up putting water in the wrong places correct boom that's right yeah that make sense Jeff which number that's number 12 number 12 and that that will be a prerequisite to a construction permit the plan the plan the plan yeah okay okay I think that's it is there any questions or com go ahead I have uh one and it's based on can't hear you one thought and I am relying on John we can't hear you still not why don't you pull the microphone closer to you also thank you because I have yes thank you so I just have this one thought and I will rely on John and um our other um professionals when I was um reading a um provision in our ordinance um the township C that um indicates that marijuana is prohibited um no growing no processing no selling and the reason why I'm bringing this up is that TV show it was a reality TV show on a couple years ago and there were people growing marijuana in Barns and I just thought maybe for um any future um users of the property just to be on notice that it's illegal for the record there's no intention of throwing marijuana put them on notice of it I would not suggest that being a condition because what if they change the ordinance in five years but put them on just so you know there's an ordinance that prohibits that so in your vertical garden don't have cannabis good to know thank you thank you now the board may recall that the reason that's being proposed to Grant a C2 not a C1 a C2 benefits versus burdens variance is because this pole bar accessory structure is going to house Motor Vehicles residential storage and other things that otherwise you'd have to have store outside and if the board grants this it would enhance Aesthetics that was the argument if you're in favor of granting it I suggest that that's the reason you're relying yeah that's what you said right enhanced Aesthetics is exactly what I had in mind I think you said it better but yes you said it better all right any other questions any questions from the audience uh please come up there's I see there's two individuals please come up to the mic provide your your name your spelling of your last name and your address okay I'm you have to speak with a ladder for me I'm Sharon Sherwin I'm your neighbor okay hold on you have to spell your last name h e r w i n okay address 36 Written House Circle lemington okay and what I'm going to do is I'm going to suggest this is a one witness case it's not like two or three Witnesses let me swear everyone in and they can ask their questions and make their comments okay can you raise your right hand you swear any comments that you make will be the truth whole truth nothing but the truth yes okay so you can ask him questions and you can make comments okay I have one main concern I have several concerns but I have one we got up to your property I'm directly behind you and all of your structure is directly at our property line your pool your conos your UMO your home and now this structure which is quite large we have septic system and all of our leads go right out to our property line along with lot one which is the neighbor to the left of us how with all of this hard structure how is that going to affect our our septic system with overflow of water will it this cause our septic system to fail it goes right up to their property line just before he answers I just want to make something clear he's not seeking any setback variances he complies with the required spacing between the property line and the structures right now he's got a shed in the north east corner which doesn't comply and he's agreed and the board is imposing a condition that that's got to be moved back to 15 foot line and the accessory structure this pole bar he's proposing it's going to be 16 fet back not just 15 and the board asked them last time because it was also needed a height variant and they said hey there's people that live back there you know it would be probably a better idea to bring it down and he brought the height down so just so you understand those are the facts so what your question is is how will these structures impact storm water that's your my my concern is at the base of our property long and now at our neighbors his property there's hard surface all across the property line well okay so stop for a second you're saying there's hard surface all along the property line I'm not seeing any hard surface I'm talking about surface so this is us here so he has the I understand but but notice the pool the separation the property line is dark line yeah the setback is 15 fet there's nothing within 15 feet and you're saying he has impious structures in the back but none of them are on the property line none of them are closer than this little this shed is 15 ft the proposed accessory structure is 16 ft the swimming pool just eyeballing it looks to be about I'm gonna say 35 ft right my my only concern right now is our sees because our leads FL right up to the end of okay so this is a question for our board engineering expert so can you show him approximately on this plot plan where you're seting so this is us here and our house sits right right about here in the middle of our which is and the leads seting system is right our of our home and the leads go directly out two leads and go directly out to the end of our you're saying lead she saying leads yeah the fields you're talking about the field yeah okay yeah fields we have a lot of water that settles in the area so my concern and I don't know if it is a concern but I just want to find that out is it going to affect the SE system if there's water overflow into the ground is it going to cause a problem for our septic system so it and there's no topography on this plan for me to tell exactly which way everything gos but I think that there's a Swale that's running on the opposite side of the pool is that's where your property all drains down all drains down yeah from away from them so more than likely and Theo is what you're right the P where's the oh right here sorry the so as far as when you when you actually grade uh property and just I guess just as a point of clarification I was paying attention somewhat earlier uh the afcan is going to be required to submit a a storm War management plan that shows the grading of the property because the big concern really would be if they're draining and the water is laying where your setic field is then that would be a concern overflow of water that causes our system to and if that happens there would be a concern it could go anywhere so I think that's why we're trying to do that storm water so they're checking that out yeah I think that's that's what they just recommended we wholeheartedly agree the board didn't recommend that it's going to be the board approves it it's going to be a condition a requirement that he submit a storm water management plan because it would affect this property yeah totally and and the the understanding is that is that the property would would be graded to drain away because that's that's really the the main concern is the water to to lay there and saturate the ground as long as it drains away the surface water wouldn't cause your problem I'm being very careful to say that because I can't guarantee your seing system is not going to have a problem but the way that that this Improvement would affect it would be the surface water and they're going to ensure that surface water weather so in that regard this Improvement What They Se for won't impact I see okay thank you hi my name is Marilyn pman F Frank hold hold we can't hear talk is not here sorry start again my name is Marilyn feinan f as in Frank i n as in Nancy e m as in Mary a n is a Nancy and I live in 37 Written House Circle and um hold on who has my plans my plans thank you so I live across the street on Written House C but the reason I'm concerned is you know was talking to our neighbors we heard that what was going on um three years ago we had three major water incidents where we are and my concern is where his storm water management is going to probably be filtering water in right below where we are and is all that extra wood are then somehow going to make it worse for us is is my big concern I talk to Mr Tully in the engineering department but what does Mr Tully know about this application he didn't know anything about the appli he told me he did not know but he's very aware of our situation but don't rely on Mr T he has no idea what's I understand that but I ask General how the storm okay this is the board engineer so I'm gonna ask you to come up here and try to show him where we're over here like the sents are here a big retention base here and there's swes in our property can you y I can get up on your computer do that tax map or something let's I can get the Google Earth yeah get the Google Earth find out where she is and then you ask him the questions and then based on what you're seeing answer her to the best of your ability abely and I'm not saying that I'm just assuming you're not an engineer you better off having an engineer answer to questions agreed agreed what's your address 37 Circle wait shwin is lot two and that's shown on the plan so if if you have a lot number that would also be good so the applicant is so you're you're on the other side of the road right and but we have a storm water swell that runs on our property and it's retention Bas so I'm not sure but I you know I'm not understand abouty but see that he's a Swale and I'm thinking that all quick ask question water generally does not run uphill is that correct I only went to [Laughter] [Music] Ruckers therefore and and and you're you're concerned very Val the uh so in general the applicant and what Mr drill was getting at uh was that in general it appears at the applicant's property and again there's no topography on on this plan there will be on the right but if she does testify that the detention basin's on the other side of the street and her water is running under the stream into the detention Basin I think we can deduce that the that her property is uphill yes but my concern is that if there's additional water going into wherever that retention Bas oh that the retention Basin would back up it's going to slow that from empty and therefore make it worse because if we had the worst FL we've been on our property for like 30 some years we had the worst in years we've never had to go over our driveway and went over our driveway three times so so we are concerned I we actually called the town we thought there was something wrong that what water wasn't flowing properly from our property okay and I know they've been out there couple times so in general it appears that that the app's property is Downstream of even even the drainage basin that that you're you're concerned with it appears that he has a Swale on his property yes I saw that that that runs under here Pi see this little kind of faint line and I apologize to the board yeah please uh just disregard Mr Dary not knowing this he was not actually assigned this application that's why the gentleman you spoke to in the engineering department again he is not aware of this application and he said he told me I know nothing am I I just ISU General can I tell you something in general he's the wrong guy to go to for storm water management the township engineer is the guy to go to for storm order management yeah you you weren't incorrec John usually refers anything most things to yeah he didn't refer to you this time huh said answer specific questions and can you answer General but just just answer your question though so this this faint line that you see going across here that's that drain sale that the applicant was referring to so his property drains down into that sale and it goes down in this general direction so so the drain basing you're concerned with is actually Upstream his property and and then you're Upstream from that okay so his his his improvements are you know he could do he could pay his whole property and it won't impact your property okay well then but I'd like to make just a general comment in general as you look at variances like this we know three years ago there was excessive flooding in riton Township and every time we cover ground juice is a huge impact on storm water management and that's we we the township changed the ordinance because of that um we've had several applicants over the last two years seeking impervious coverage variances and when they come in the board actually says when the only way we' Grant you an impervious coverage variance is if you actually put in storm water management system that makes your property act as if it actually has less by putting in infiltration and things like that so they they are well aware of it that's why when I said we had like nine or 10 applications in the last two years just just so you're aware it's actually not just applications that come the boards the township actually has a minor develop man so a lot of other municipalities they sort of have state that you don't if you don't meet criteria as a major project a lot of times they won do anything in our Township we actually have a minor development mot maneria once you meet a certain threshold which is lower threshold in our Township you actually have to M you have to rain a certain volume of water so because that's you know I'm still the new guy but that's one of the first things that uh only because I heard the term oh you just have to put in a rain Garden so that kind of worried me a little bit that a rain Garden was not sufficient to hold the water that 1500 foot building right no there there were actual hard calculations that have to do to determine the volume of water just so you know again it's the volume of water is 3.4 in of a rainfall over a 24hour period they have to take that amount of rainfall over there increasing pervia and retain that water on site that actually handles most of the regular nuisance kind of flooding that that occurs that's what okay okay thank you and the gentleman that we were recommending um I think he's been before the board at least five or six times in the last two years for that that what they're referring to the the bald guy with the white shirt in the tie sitting in the front seat is a civil engineer and and he has been designing a lot of these storm water management um plans for homeowners who are seeking these sorts of variances okay so there anyone else there are members online as well is there anyone online that has any questions or comments for this applicant actually can you come back for one second so I can swear you in I forgot to swear you in no I swear you in yeah can you raise your right hand do you swear or affirm with the comments you just made were the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes okay thank you all right anyone online hearing none is there anyone else in the room I thought I saw a gentleman stand up oh I didn't I'm sorry yeah right there was someone coming behind you what happened that was the attorney that was oh that was Steve is a citizen all right never mind okay so can we close for deliberation yes I'll stop okay yeah so first of all I want to thank the neighbors for going out of their way to come here and talk to us as well as Express their interest so I'm going to address a couple of things what I had heard one was last time uh gentlemen there you had mentioned about adding more structures and how it looks I'm address that as we go through this as well as the issues with storm water so one of the facts about storm water is we're all volunteers but one of the courses we had to take to sit here was for stone Water Management okay so we take it very very very seriously the other thing is there are few of us here who also help with during the emergencies so we do understand live of what happens when the floods come in so we're even personally with the work we do outside of here are very sensitive to that okay so we assured storm water is way on top of our list uh the other item which is part of the variant by the way I'm going to support uh this application for yes uh and the reason for that is when you look at the big picture if uh this uh pole B was not in place they would put all the things outside and we would not have any control over it this in fact is going to he used the word enhance Aesthetics this is in fact going to help put everything in place so your neighborhood looks better because of this and I think that's a big benefit from what we understand I have studied these drawings they look very very good all I'm going to ask you sir is make sure it Blends in very well with the environment because that's important when neighborhood neighbors take interest that's very critical to make sure that everything goes well yeah put it this way there's going to be a condition that it has to be substantially identical to the plan that he submitted perfect perfect even better right so with that in mind I am going to support and I do want to thank you for being very coopertive the way you've been flexible and adjusting everything and making sure things go well and lastly on a personal note I'm looking forward to this new way of planting things I think it's going to help us in long term from a vision as far as what it means to our environment and how farming is going to be done in the future so I I commend you for that too okay thank you so I will support this application anyone else I I guess I'll say I'm going to support the application as well and just note that you know unlike some of the applications the board of adjustment gets for that involve an increasing impervious coverage this one is below our minimum hard surface coverage yeah um they're allowed 20% and the applicant is going from 12.6 to 13.8 so that's that's a a small increase compared to what we sometimes see uh in front of this board and by having the stormw management provision to offset the in increase in runoff um that's a a great benefit okay anyone else I would also be in favor of this applicant um I agree with everything my my colleagues have said again I I don't want to harp on it I just want to let you know that um we like to approve things like this but we don't want to see you again and I say that kiddingly but we've had issues where the as built that the contractor did not do what they said and what it comes down to is we as the board can't just say oh they made a mistake we can then give you another variance and and then the applicant has to argue with their contractor so it's do they come here or do they argue with the contractor so all I'm saying is when we approve something there are conditions and there are reasons for conditions and that we ask you know you are a resident yourself you don't have an attorney with you um if you have questions or or have any questions about anything please reach out to the planning and zoning department to get the answers to follow what we've approved yeah I suggest you call Jeff well with zoning questions yeah so and and I think you as you know we have many applications so be patient and um I think um I would be in favor of approving this if there are no more any more comments can we get a motion to approve so I'll second can vote R call please chairwoman Miss Cynthia schaer yes Vice chair Miss Russ DJI yes Miss lyy cool BR G oh sorry Mr Randy block I'm so sorry which one yes Miss lindsy cool BR gal yes Miss lorett ktina yes Miss Donna Drew yes thank you great thank you all very much um just for the record uh Jeff and Taylor thank you for all the help you yeah yeah think we take a break for a few minutes um sorry I'm at the clock it's 5 to 8 we come back at 10 5 after and Mr gromberg you're back on okay calling the next application for this evening boa case number 04202 24 applicant is 207 Everett Monsanto properties l p block 86 blot three and four 207 Everett Road application for a minor subdivision with preliminary and final site plan D variance and C variances for proposed contractor J good evening Mr gruberg good evening Madame chairperson members of the board Steven Gruenberg attorney in from Clemington New Jersey and also a Ruckers graduate and uh I'm here representing two of 7 Everett monano Properties LLC in this exciting application to revitalize the 100 concrete plant site to put it to a good contractor storage yard use um this is going to require uh various relief that you've just identified including D1 variance relief and C variance relief and preliminary and final major site plan approval with a minor subdivision but we're not creating any additional Lots we're taking two lots that exist and reconfiguring them so that they both have Frontage on Everett Road and are both viable Lots rather than having one that doesn't have Frontage so um we the the New Lots are both going to be conforming they're 11.24 five acres and 12.71% [Music] for the township to take a site that has uh buildings and a concrete plant that is going to be removed and to revitalize and use the remaining buildings for an appropriate use I have uh forwarded the uh certification of proof of service and publication of the notice of hearing and as that jurisdiction be confirmed yes so I'm going to I review the content of the notice and it's acceptable and I'm going to ask our board secretary if you riew the certifies yes I have and everything is intact okay so it's my opinion the board has procedural jurisdiction over the application thank you I have four Witnesses we can swear them in all at once as you like to do get all your Witnesses up to that microphone and all the board witnesses can stay right at the table we're going to have everyone rais their right hands I'm going to do a group swearing and then I'm going to start down at the end and ask when I get to the the ultimate question of you know good yes yes all the way down the line so does everyone swear or affirm that the testimony they're going to give in this application the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do I do I do I do I do I I do okay now start at the end slowly state your name and last name spell your last name and give your relationship to the applicant or the board as the case may be I Xavier m p i theant you're the applicant's managing member solo managing okay and how do you spell your first name x i this is this so owner and the managing member of the applicant okay next my name is William meel I am the applicants and Mary as and I am the applicant traffic engineer way Ingram i n g r a m I'm the engineer J TR McDon R Associates TR cons the board John Thomas John Morgan Thomas in the board's landscape AR Township planner or planning expert broadcast Dary with environmental resolutions Township engineer and board engineer okay I would like to call Xavier P want to talk into that microphone good evening Madame chairwoman committee uh board secretary fellow professionals my name is Xavier Pensa and I am I'll ask you some questions what's your position with 207 everetts Montano Properties LLC I am the sole owner and managing member of 207 Evers Montano and when did you purchase the property uh late last year okay and do you have familiarity with the township of ridan on any other sites I do I currently own and operate uh my office and construction business out of 165 River Road which is a property that has a similar use approved by this board several years ago prior to my purchase where it houses um various businesses and uh provides for outside storage of construction materials equipment and trucks and is essentially that the same or similar type of thing that you would like to do on this property yes and why don't you tell the board a little bit about the recent history of the site and what our proposal is um the site as I uh know it um I came across it four years ago uh is in this repair you know it's got an old abandoned concrete plant uh it's an Site for Sore Eyes has been underutilized and really just a site for Shor eyes uh in the township um I I believe that the township um needs a viable option for several business owners in town to properly and legally park their equipment materials and trucks as I've become uh you know a business owner in town employing over 60 people um I've witnessed just driving around that people just park their trucks equipment park materials all throughout the town I believe that there should be a responsible way of maybe perhaps controlling this and does the reason why I felt compelled to purchase this property and hopefully with the board's uh approval uh provide for some sort of uh method for people to properly Park in town so this this site um currently has uh a two-story concrete building which we're proposing to remain and Mr Ingram is going to go through all the nitty-gritty of the site details um but what what are the remaining buildings and concrete structures that are going to be removed the concrete plant is is going to be removed the existing building as is uh provides for approximately 3,800 squ feet of office space about 8,000 square feet of mechanic shops St SL uh working space and we we don't propose to extend that or U build beyond that we propos to use it as is we propos to level the property to pave it improve it and use it for you know control parking materials and trucks and the hours of operation that's the anticipated to be 7 am. uh and no later than 7 P.M 7 days a week correct yes sir outside of you know special occasion maybe emergency use there are several snow plowing contractors in town so in case of emergency we would like the ability to perhaps make an exception but for the most part 7 to 7 20% seven years and um we don't know exactly how many tenants would be using this space but um it would be a maximum of 10 tenants correct yes and what type of security would be there on site we currently have a 24hour um 7day a week uh camera system um it uh it records um you say you exist that's at your current site you're talking about yes sir it's currently monitored 247 with a recording uh camera system on this particular site now yes and that's you're proposing for that to continue yes sir wait a minute you have that now on this site yes Oh I thought you meant you had that at your current construction location we have it at both but at 207 there is a a c security and surveillance system installed that reports 247 okay now I understand thank you sir right now the gate the property is gated right yes it is with a big scary sign saying don't go in there because I was afraid to go in there we've had issues in the past where the building was vandalized so we felt compelled to not only install the surveillance system but also the gate it is you know there is an old concrete plant there right which is not only a sight for sore eyes but can be dangerous and so why we come to you and ask for permission to not only level that to make the property safe but also to make it viable and to kind of fit into the town and maybe help resolve some of the current non-compliant illegal parking that's happening throughout Town um what are the uses that are going to be done within the parking storage area um so we're proposing um contractors have their own storage area they're uh allowed to uh you know store materials in a controlled manner meaning palti or wrapped or nothing loose and we're also proposing to park construction equipment and trucks and trailers we're not uh proposing any type of um maintenance or working on vehicles outside correct no maintenance will be strictly restricted to inside the mechanic shop that uh currently exists today and there was a question I think in Mr vella's report about shipping containers um there there may be the storage of shipping containers but there will not be the stacking of those shipping containers yes sir um we're asking for that because it allows for contractors and and contractors have needs you know similar to the application before us where there's a controlled way of storing loose tools right you don't want demo saws you don't want shovels scattered throughout a property it's an eyesore it's tripping Hazard it's dangerous so providing and giving us the and providing a tenant the ability to have a shipping container not stacked we don't want anything uh stacked on top of each other but giving them the ability to store their Tools in a controlled manner would certainly help to just keep the site clean and aesthetically pleasing and safe the type of uh if you could elaborate maybe a little bit maybe you've already uh touched on this but the type of outdoor storage and materials what what will they be I'll give you an example as to you know my use currently I own a heavy civil construction business I've had the privilege of working in town before building roads installing underground utilities um things of sort of like ductal iron water main pipe or storm sewer pipe or pallets of block and brick those types of things um there'll be no parking outside of the designated spaces no sir and um one question was the ground sign uh whether we would have a goose neck drop Lighting on that sign in order to match the rural character we're willing to do that absolutely we're here to be good neighbors to the township I believe in the township that's why we're here I believe that we run a very orderly operation today at 165 River Road and I welcome the opportunity to do it here I think that this property needs a little tender love and care which it's been lacking for several years um I looked at this property several years ago I thought it was a great opportunity but it was the wrong timing and I think the timing is now you know I see trailers all over the township and I think that not only is that dangerous but it's a detriment right homeowners cut their grasp but they have people parking random cars and trailers and Pickups all over town where it's not it shouldn't be allowed so give me the opportunity to clean clean that up by giving people an opportunity and an option to park legally um question was whether we would have a Quant cut um or any type of barrier there's none on the plans and there's none proposed correct no we're not proposing and one last question I think I had for you was the future use of the uh vacant lot um right now we don't have any plans for that lot correct very candidly I don't I I don't have any plans for I honestly don't know I'd like to see what best Blends in at a future date but at the moment I I honestly don't so Purp of this application though that lot is for any use that's permitted in the AR Zone correct yes sir no there's no devarian being requested for that lot correct nothing that's all I have we're going to get into the nitty-gritty of the site through Mr Ingram's testimony so I haven't done that but I wanted to give you a an overview of what the proposal is is your current site you said 165 River Road yes ma'am that's over by there's a horse farm back there there is across the street okay so you were here four four years ago um so I I purchased it on the condition of the approvals and so the prior owner and I can mention him by name I I won't unless you ask me to no get the name Glenn hail from Hil buil construction Glenn and I um had a handshake deal to purchase the property but I said and and and this is my communication to the township as well I come you know like right at you so I don't I didn't want anything illegal blend you have to go get your approvals I have to make sure that everything is dotted and and and cross dened and then I'll purchase your property and that's what we did I I I believe it took him you know a couple months to come before this board and finally get the approvals and ultimately we did close on the property Jeff that that approval went pretty smoothly didn't it uh it was a few meetings yeah we had a few meetings okay yeah thank you so how long have you been running that place what was that question how long have you been running 165 River Road 165 River Road um I am a little older than you sir so my mind is not perfect but about three or four years approximately uh chairwoman said about four years ago when Glenn was here I don't want to have the exact but about that I'm glad I for you you have more hair than I so remember we heard me correctly wasn't there a problem with concrete and not property I'm not hearing you Randy wasn't there a problem with concrete on what property a problem this property yeah yeah this property this property that we're here tonight this was the psng the big stacked pile of concrete ask him is it still there yeah is it still there the piles of concrete or the concrete plant the piles of concrete he wants to know no sir and that's one of the reasons why I didn't purchase it four years ago there were piles of materials that I didn't feel should have been there and I didn't feel confident in purchasing that property without that being mitigated and remediated first okay well thank you thank you sir the question you said you have uh currently have employee over 60 people how many people do you anticipate moving to this location or are you going to consolidate at this location at the moment we don't plan to relocate our business to this property we plan to redevelop it clean it uh make it to you know the standard that we've presented to you in our drawings now ultimately we plan to make this available to tenants to lease out and rent so you're not going to occupy the main building then that is not our plan no me um is someone going to um present testimony regarding the building itself oh yeah you're gonna have have an engineer like he said this is right this is the managing member so he's given the uh the 60,000 30,000 foot I'll ask a 30,000 foot question do you anticipate when uh the project uh for the functioning of the project would there be restroom facilities provided for you know contractor comes in in the morning wants to give his equipment they probably need to use facilities before they go out and at the end of the day when they come back so wood access to restrooms be part of that um package of what's what's going to be in the building the two-story concrete building there going to be offices are people the contractors have to rent an office to be able to store their stuff or can they just store stuff at the yard not have an office and in the office how many toilets are you going to have so I'll I I'm going to defer some of that to my professionals but I'll speak to what we currently have there's approximately three or four functional clean bathrooms in the building there's one in the mechanic shop itself um there's about 3,800 Square ft of finished office space clean painted just very nice space there's about 8,000 square ft of the mechanic shop area so there are facilities within the building and I think the board heard before that PS and prior to my purchase psng was a tenant on this property through the permission of this board on a temporary basis and they made uses of made use of that office space facilities and garage space um in terms of WEA tenants outside will have access to the building our goal is to lease the building and the outside now there may be a tenant that doesn't have access to the to the inside um I can't speak to what the future tenants are going to be ma'am I I don't know yet yeah I guess my concern would be if a tenant is coming in we want to make sure that um public health issues are addressed and there's access to at least there's how that um when future tenants come in that there is the ability for them to use the facilities um yeah so that would just be something i' i' like some information on at some point sure I I and just I'm an NJIT graduate but I'm not my wife is rers um uh so two very strong schools in New Jersey that I feel very strongly that's a diplomatic way of putting it I'll let the Ruckers guy talk that and certainly comply to the best the other thing you mentioned is that you know you the types of businesses that you might anticipate were uh snow plowing businesses yeah what what else you talking about like small plumbing contractors electrical contractors I have a specific question regarding this snow plowing um the storage of salt outside has to be covered under a covered it has to be in a qu like basically covered or under a in a concert Hut um I I I can speak to that um um committee woman um we are not proposing to erect any salt sheds or or are nor are we permitting storage of salt outside as a matter of fact we're not proposing storage of salt inside so how would you have a snow plowing contractor then on the site they can't have salt there they can have a plow on their truck but they can't store Salt we're not asking for that I don't don't have any desire for that at 165 River Road we do have one tenant that is a snow plowing contractor that does have a HUD that was permitted via this committee and complies with all the regulations of the DP and storm water Etc but we're not asking for that just curious is that SRA the it is yeah it is the board might recall that happen yeah yes sir okay okay so then you would okay I guess I want to come back to one question I this property is sitting in a very good location for what you want to do I was just a little taken back by your hours because I think as a contractor don't they work uh some contractors don't they work till dark and so when you said 7 to seven yeah I was just wondering this isn't in a neighborhood there is is this it even close to neighbors that I know of um put this way if a contract is going to have an office there and they have a bid du on a Wednesday they're generally in the office midnight past midnight the day through the application I just I just I just thought that was odd and and I think we should talk through that because I think it's a perfect location that if you do have contractors that work till dark for whatever they do landscaping or whatever they are um we just want to clarify that thank you for that madam chairwoman anybody have anything else just ask one more question to [Music] remember that yes yes sir on the I just had a few statements questions because he's proposing a shipping container that's going to be another de variance well I don't think he's proposing one shipping container I think he's proposing to have if contractors want shipping containers to keep their stuff in he's proposing that that would also be the sort of thing that would be stored on the site am I correct I think that would fall within our request for outdoor storage because correct my are you're not looking for a permanent container as an like an outdoor office you're looking for containers whether they be gang boxes on wheels or you know large containers for contractors to put their stuff and be able to pick them up or leave them there am I correct yes sir you understand what they're what they're looking for are there any other accessory structures that would be propos any other accessory structures you propose no sir and just to be clear when you I'm just clarifying when you say shipping container I think of a certain size yes okay just want to make sure I got the size correct we're gonna have to address this because I don't know if it's if it's an accessory I mean okay technically it's an accessory structure they're going to call it a what it called a gang box it's an equipment storage container unit but in the past hasn't I'm sorry but this board has required applicants well if if they to get shipping containers right if they want to have one permanently on the site or if it's outdoor storage but generally they want it put on the plan so they can make sure that it complies with all setbacks what he's what he's talking about it cons tell me if I'm wrong my concept of a construction yard is regardless of whether or not the contractor has an office in that building it is a place where if a contractor wants to store his construction trailer right could be a big trailer on Wheels you could store it there if a contractor wants to store a bunch of material that he doesn't want to keep outside because he's afraid that the weather will affect negatively impact it or someone will take it then he the contractor is going to have a a storage container that you see on the back of a tractor trailer truck yeah a large storage container which can be locked to put the contractor's stuff in it y if the contractor wants gang boxes on Wheels because he might want to chain them to a post or something and he doesn't want to pay for space in the office for that he might keep that out there they might have um wooden planks they might have scaffolding out there things like that that's the sort of stuff you're talking about storing outside correct yes sir yeah on the plan do you have a designated storage area yeah we'll show we do and Mr Ingram will go through that so again I'm not advocating one way or another I just want people to understand what's being proposed and I and I think that what they're going to be proposing is they're going to have this area and it's different but the same concept five Birds right you had a parking area oh yeah okay you had concrete monuments put on the corners so that the area could easily be seen by a zoning officer of that's where cars could be on that site so maybe that's where outdoor storage can take place on this site and I for five Birds I had used an analogy from Clinton which was actually an outdoor um automobile store its place and they had concrete monuments but I have a feeling that's the sort of stuff that Mr Ingram is going to talk about am I correct you are correct sir okay is there any other Steve tried to ask this what other sort of things would be stored out there besides the things we just mentioned I I think Mr drill I think we covered them all how about like a concrete mixer could be stored outside sure concrete mix on Wheels toe behinds compressors right generator toe behind generator anything that you could see on a construction site so would there be for example fuel storage refueling trucks with fuel we are not allowing fuel storage of any okay so there's you know that have a fuel tank a back or a front end loader yes sir so excavators loaders any types of construction equipment yeah are any containers excuse me is any containers going to be stored inside Randy we repeat that question containers the containers are being stored inside no only containers are outside you're not going to have any of those large containers stored inside the building are you okay are you have any storage inside the building other than like files in there there is 8,000 square fet of mechanic shop area and so a mechanic may be working on a piece of equipment inside the mechanic shop area understood but are you're going to but you're not going to have storage in that other than office storage you're not going to have storage if someone's in the mechanic shop to have work done on a vehicle the vehicle is not being stored in there it's going to be worked on presumably and when it's done it's going to be sent back outside correct right right so just since there's a lot of concern about what you're going to store I'm going to try to try to ask a clarifying question sure you're not planning to store anything which is hazardous no sir right like more environmentally something which can leak like salt or oil or whatever no with the exception of we do have and it's permitted by the town it was inspected the heating oil tank right so there is a heating oil tank inside the building right that heats the building that hits the building right so not for storage of some client coming and customer coming no sir does that help because I want to go back to the the 8,000 foot mechanic shop do you want to allow construction equipment and vehicle storage in there also if you're not using the full 8,000 ft for a mechanic shop absolutely okay win right so you got to say something like that because thank you Mr I'm a very literal guy we would like to have the ability uh from this board permission from this board to be allowed to park construction equipment inside the mechanic shop area awesome okay okay yes Jeff one last into the microphone please there was some testimony regarding the piles of concrete and I know that the plan reflects some some piles still there could you just qualify remot testify for that okay okay all right is there anybody on line for this I think the only comments that we have online I'm not speaking for anybody is please speak into the microphones please and to note for the record that Miss lindsy cool brel has recused yourself from this app yes thank you for mentioning that thank you I forgot I have one quick question um with regard to you got to go loud you go Lou with regard to um the agreement between you and the contractors who are using your storage facility um is there some Protections in there regarding um abandonment or things just um being left to um fall into disrepair um something to prevent those kinds of um problems from happening um I I will certainly address that ma'am so every tenant will be on a lease and um if you ever are in the area you're welcome to stop by my current facility um I'm known for being very tough and detail oriented I like things oriented a certain way I like it clean and I'm on site so while I might not be occupying that site I'm very diligent about keeping everything orderly so in addition to a lease and a contract between us and our you can um be reassured that between myself and my staff we keep things orderly and are very aggressive and active in making sure that people comply with our lease requirements and your lease agreements will provide for the ability to um deal with any abandoned property or or vacant property or just you you you have an incentive to make sure that the new a new tenant gets in there if somebody's abandoning so part of my business we have an in-house Council who drafts our contracts and leases that will certainly be taken under advisement and be part of our leases thank you okay I think that's all we have for this witness um Mr ingr thank you everyone for your time okay yeah right there [Music] Jackie asked for a minute ah she wasn't talking loud enough I didn't hear yeah I know now I'm in trouble I know I couldn't resist that was the wrong I got in trouble before I left my house tonight I got in trouble at the meeting uh Mr Ingram you have do I have to qualify him as an engineer listen it's up to you I gotta tell you you're nuts not to qualify somebody even if they testified here 15 times if if someone's out there and files a prerogative writ and he wasn't qualifi you want to do that come on qualify give the board the benefit of your qualifications please sure I am also a Rucker grad engineering uh and NGIT in ler bank so I covered my base right um I'm licensed engineer I've been practicing for approximately 20 years licensed for about 15 and I probably appeared for 75 different municipalities in the State uh including this board at least probably a dozen times I offer Mr Ingram as an expert engineer I don't think we have any questions we'll accept that thank you thank you um Wayne you put something up here this was um already submitted to the board and doesn't need to be separately marked correct this was the exhibit we turned in a couple days ago so we do need to mark this uh this we A1 yeah that be A1 again just do me a favor keep them all in the same place just go to lower right hand corner somewhere an A1 with today's date on it and just read what that caption in the lower right hand corner says uh it's labeled site plan exhibit for former 100 in concrete and what's the date on it 5324 okay and why don't you take the board through the site sure so I I'll just start by orienting everyone um on the north side of the page we have ever's road on the Eastern side um immediately adjacent to us is the railroad and just beyond that is uh route 20231 to the South um we have uh what was previously approved as a Solar Development on a farm and to the west of us is mainly farmland and there are two houses uh immediately uh to the west of us up along the front of Everett and across Everett we have one other home uh with a tree farm uh associated with it uh in terms of what's on the site I think everybody's familiar driving down the highway uh with the uh concrete plant uh that you see going by it's probably the most noticeable structure uh of the area here uh we have the main uh office mechanic shop building we keep referencing uh which is somewhat Central to the site and in Gray uh these are the areas that we're proposing for the outdoor storage but that's also consistent with the current limits uh of the uh concrete gravel pavement that's already out there is that shown on one of the sheets of the plans that you guys submitted uh this storage area not on that I believe page seven sheet seven it's consistent with that uh we have the existing cell tower uh which is located uh in the southwest corner of the developed portion of the site our site access is via a driveway area looks different than we we highlighted it more but the limits are as shown it's just what you see the limits are as shown where's show me where this limit right here is the same limit that we're depicting on this on this plan it's a different scale correct yeah scale is the it's labeled as the proposed existing edge of gravel and stone parking area Okay are there any physical markers out there that delineate that other than the fact that it's either pavement or gravel are there any concrete monuments or anything like that no but that's what we're proposing to install yes so this is based on the surveyed limits we're going to stay consistent with the limits that are already out there we're actually going to shrink it by about, 1500 square ft uh just to kind of normalize the lines because it's just kind of anomalously uh uh left across the site um the rear portion is actually has uh like basically block walls that were put up that kind of Define that edge we're going to maintain that um on the Eastern portion of our site we do have a uh Power Line easement a lot of the existing structures that are there now are in that easement uh so those will all be removed um we are proposing though to maintain the the storage in that area um you know where where it currently exists but again there's no expansion beyond the limits of what was already um used uh previously on the site um we are proposing this is also a site plan and subdivision application currently the site is divided uh there are two lots there's a northern lot which is basically up to the limit of this uh improved area and south of that was a secondary lot um which again covered the the southern portion of the site uh at the rear of the site we have uh a stream tributary to the shanic and we have a wetland uh boundary uh that is within that area there used to be a former residence in that area uh there still has the remains of a of a foundation from that and they actually had an across the railroad out to the highway um and when we kind of looked at the property you know we have two lots we weren't really using that space but it didn't really make sense to keep a lot that a had no Frontage um B had all these environmentally restricted areas um and you know had these kind of unsafe access to the highway so our thought was why don't we remove the lot line and reposition it such that you know we can put the the rear portion in a conservation easement you know as requested and basically create the portion of the property that we don't want to use into a separate lot for future use we don't know what it's going to be for now it's agriculture that's that's all we're proposing um so but again that would put about 11 and a half acres 11.24 actually on the western portion of the site um you know probably about eight or nine of which are are developable uh and separated out and this area if you recall the prior application by psng this is where they were storing uh for you know at temporary but temporary was a very very long time um and they they basically left the site recently they were also using uh the maintenance building and some of this property um they've removed all of their um equipment their supplies they've restored the area and you know have have left it now and um again we're not at this point proposing any use of that um but our thinking was it would be wise at this time to subdivide it because if anything it's a control to the size of this development so you put a lot line in this is the limit of this industrial use you know we'll come back to you at some point in time for this whether it's you know one or two houses or whatever it may be or agriculture if he just wants a buffer you know that's that's not to be decided uh with this application um we are uh as you heard proposing up to 10 tenants on the property the building would be utilized by some of those tenants how do you figure the 10 tenants that's how many offices you can fit in the building no have many areas some of them may not have any office space it depends on who the tenant is it's available till it's not available anymore I this C how did you how did you come up with with 10 we looked at the area and figured what's kind of a minimum size somebody would need to operate but this is what we're calling a maximum we you know we figured what you would want to limit is how many people would be using the site so we figured 10 is a reasonable number to fit in the outdoor space we have but frankly what we hope is to have a few tenants is possible if we had a larger tenant who wanted five spaces that would be even better um what we want to Define in the application is the limits of where storage can occur which we can certainly delineate with markers as requested you know probably like a concrete Ballard would be the you know easiest delineator um though we're open to any other you know alternatives and the other portion I think that's important is uh interior to the site we have a 25 ft access way around the building you know to access all these different areas that we have to keep clear um that's going to be necessary for you know emergency access for any of the vehicles that are coming in and out and we we can't be blocking that up so what we're going to propose as well would be to install the same types of markers along the perimeter of that 25 ft to demarcate that there is nothing to be stored you know outside the limits of that um I should also mention one of the questions was with regard to the cell tower um when this was approved there's an existing easement which you know kind of jogs in multiple directions goes behind the building and accesses to the rear I can't quite figure out how that was arrived at because you know You' think it would work with the prior concrete limits but they had piles that didn't allow access and and it really didn't make any sense um and not to mentioned the uh cell tower company wasn't even closely operating where they were supposed to so we're working with the cell tower company and creating a new easement which they are agreeable to we can you know as a condition provide a final agreement with them uh but we're going to be relocating their easement along our proposed driveway along the front of the building and then along the western side to access their their facility um it'll work better for us it's cleaner it'll be the same 20ft width that they previously had and you know it gives them a direct access to it um you know which should should improve and keep them compliant with what you know what they really should be operating on on the site uh we the eement was probably around some equipment or something like that you would have thought so but when we surveyed it I mean there were piles in the way there the road didn't even function as a road so it really didn't make any sense um but it certainly wouldn't work for what we're doing here just did you look at their approval resolution just put add that to your list just check their approval resolution and make sure that if you're going to reroute easement or something it doesn't do something with that or negatively impact that sure yeah we we we've already been negotiating with them in terms of reloc I understand I just want to make sure that there's no condition that needs modification or anything like that fa enough um so we are proposing uh some parking uh uh the perimeter of the building uh to be compliant with with what's required for the for the size of the structure uh we have a required Ada space we will uh you know sign that appropriately we'll have an EV stall as required um we will add to the plan the location of the doors uh basically we have bay doors on the front side here which are going to remain uh accessible um and again we believe that's appropriate uh you know for the site uh in terms of lighting uh we have 20 foot lights on the building 25t poles on the perimeter uh which is compliant with the height requirements uh in the township I believe we do need relief uh from the uniformity ratio one of the reasons for that is is if you want more uniformity you need more lights we don't necessarily want more lights this isn't like a parking lot where we're going to have the public you know needing a certain lighting level you know these are enclosed lock off storage spaces at night um we believe we have safe lighting for them but we're not looking to install more lights than are necessary there you know there's no reason to light this place up um you know more than just a low safe level so you know we think that asking for that particular piece of relief is really just you know for the benefit of anybody looking into the site um in terms of landscaping I'm sure we'll discuss that in more detail but um what we're basically proposing uh is to beef up the uh northwest corner where we AB but a resident we kind of walked around out here and stood in a different place and said you know from from different Vantage points what can you really see and you know I I do think that the the existing uh Tree Line buffer is actually decent but we did think it could be beefed up in that area to provide a better buffer to that neighbor um obviously to the South we have a pretty heavily wooded area and we have a solar farm opposite us um we can't really do much to the east uh because of that power line easement so we would have liked to put something there but you know they have height restrictions we can't you can't allow vegetation to grow into it um so we're not proposing anything more than already there there is obviously tree cover uh you know in there uh off our property um and but I think visually I think that you know even though we're going to be storing things here the fact that you're not going to have that very tall concrete Tower at in itself will be an improvement to the visuals uh for anybody who's traveling down the highway um the other buffer we were concerned about was Northern boundary um but you know really when you look between the topography and the existing coverage the the tree line here is quite dense um and you're lower and grade and when we were standing out here you really couldn't see into the site um and it's a pretty thick mature buffer um we didn't really think that adding anything else to it was going to uh really improve the views uh from what you can see over there just based on that topography and that coverage um I do uh agree with with Mr Thomas regarding uh if there's a need to during the course of construction go out here and you know sporadically locate additional Landscaping that we feel would fill gaps I think that's appropriate and you know I think we'd rather leave that as a condition that we would um you know walk through site with him to choose those locations um that would serve the best purpose to fill those gaps um more so than trying to you know put it on a plan we'd rather have that something that you know we and and we have approved uh in the field and we would certainly agree with that um in terms of utilities um you know I understand one of the questions is is storm water management um we provided a more detailed summary of that uh basically shows that we are not increasing the impervious in fact we're decreasing it and we're not altering it in any specific drainage area so really you know even though there's a lot of you know uh basically clean up to the area nothing we're doing here is going to increase storm water uh runoff from the site be a very marginal decrease um but we don't really have the need for a storm water management feature because we're neither increasing coverage or increasing uh uh roadway surface coverage from what it is today it's it's going to function exactly as it has uh you know good portion of our site you know close to the rear and you know I think the fact that we're not supposing to have any of those hazardous materials on site which would be your you know your concern you know for the quality of the runoff uh I don't see any uh impacts you know from what we're doing here where where does the water run now how does the water get off that large site where does it go there there's a couple different drainage areas uh a good portion of it uh does run off the rear uh we have our high point kind of is on the easn side it's all Overland flow y nothing nothing chance there's no basins there's no pipes it's all you know sheet flow run off yes so so related to that every road does have flooding issues okay so I was just wondering with the recent storms like this last two three years have we seen any impact even though this Ms from what you are saying like is there anything which can be done which would help those flooding well I mean you know we one of the relief we're asking for is you know generally yet you know pavement is required we're not proposing pav yeah we'll put it this way the issue if you were in front of the planning board on a permitted use he'd be right but you got a use variance for outdoor storage um in my opinion if the board wanted you to do storm water management that you wouldn't have to do if you had a permitted use as part of the negative criteria they can make you do it the issue is What's Happening Now what's the situation how the recent I'm not aware of any issues I mean I've been out here during rain events you know the fact that it is gravel you know it's impervious but you know we're keeping it consistent so there there really isn't I don't I don't see any you know heavy areas of ponding I don't see areas of erosion um you know it actually keeps a pretty good coverage I mean frankly the the biggest detriment was what happened here for seven years they had no storm waterer Management on that system and it was dirt I mean that was the problem and at this point they've receded that and restored it to a better condition than when they were originally there I think that was probably the biggest benefit was having that tenant leap not the I'm not talking about any erosion on the site when all this water comes off the site where does it go on other sites or the roads some of it flows to the street a good portion of it flows to the rear and the stream and some of it flows West before heading back to the street so there are a few different drainage we analyzed every single one bus to prove that I understand that I'm just saying if there's any off are there any offsite areas that are negatively impacted by the existing Overland water nothing that I saw no I don't I don't see any areas that appear to be impacted you know there's no like concentrated area that's creating erosion is what I'm trying to say that that seem to be an issue now so how much of the how much of the water is going on to every a road for example and that one fls I go and monitor I have no doubt I mean but that's a that's a combination of factors that don't yeah yeah but the point is where does it flow and is there anything which can be done to better right is there anything that can be done so that water on this site does not flow onto everage Road we're not asking you to solve some problem on everage road caused by someone else's property is there anything that can be done so the water on this site does not make its way onto ever Road are there storm water pipes under ever Road not not in the vicinity of our site no there's there's an inlet uphill that's about it okay well where does that pipe go to if it's uphill it's got to go downhill it seems to be on the railroad track so again not on our property there's another pipe on the side of the road uh in front of the B lot uh kind of in the Northwestern portion that appears to be heading west um but that's on the opposite side of the stre may you consider asking the board engineer to have a offline with Mr Ingram and see if there's anything that can be done to make it so no water is Flowing off the side of the everage road and uh Rakesh Al even give you exact areas in a where it floods when because we got do that it's part of our monitoring yes okay my other job okay yeah I'll give you the detail and you guys can work it out we can certainly take a at that I as far as uh the water shedding off of the site onto ever Ro I think we can Define that a little bit better and there may be some things that we can do to to enhance or improve that the situation I don't think you can I don't think you can you can't stop it right I you can't prevent any all runoff from the site from getting to Evert road but what we can do is is take a look at uh a way of making sure that it's first that it's not adversely impacted which way is provided the calculations to demon stra but maybe there's a way of enhancing it uh that the applicant can Implement that and can we also for the record ask rasul what is your other capacity that you're talking about so I volunteer for the township OEM office of emergency management so we're always on watch when they're flooding so he's saying on his from his personal knowledge he has seen flooding on everage road and that's why he is expressing a concern and that's why if anything can be done to lessen the water coming off the perhap we could get back to it only because I think you're going to have some competing interest here and it's going to be what what wins out I mean there's you know when we talk about Landscaping there's been some requests by Mr Thomas regarding additional things you're looking for I can tell you that we can't do both we can't drastically increase the buffer up here and provide storm water management there isn't enough room wait I I would just say there's some flexibility in your site design so there could be some you could remove some of the pavement or the stone you make room there becomes a point that you know there there's a limit to how much you can remove and still have a viable project I mean we propose we could have we didn't make any attempt to come here asking for an expansion whether we improve storm water or not we came here asking for the same limits as is the impact would be minimized if we start eroding this this doesn't really become much of a viable you know site necessarily for this type of use and we're back to square one so a a general question in looking at the aerial photography provided along with looking at additional sources like Google Earth it appears that there's portions of this area that you're claiming are currently impervious graveled area that seem to be vegetated areas I would say just because of weeds grow up because they never maintained it there go out here and core this you're going to find feet so so I guess that's where because of the issue storm water management the need to verify the true extent of the impervious coverage existing on the site seems pretty important um for multiple reasons um and given that the drainage in the back goes to the nanic or the third is it third tributary of the nanic which Downstream floods as well um you know that I I I just was perplexed um when I looked at your map and you know granted I pulled up you probably got me on the camera today pulling up to the gate kind of look into the property just to see what it looked like but I saw an awful lot of lawn area and so that's what you know again some some additional confirmation about the extent of the impervious coverage um would make me feel a lot better saying yes you can keep doing what you've been doing go for it or you know maybe it's really not impervious coverage and there are standards impervious coverage that were on the PS application because I did the survey for them all those years ago it it's unchanged it's the same thing the site has been abandoned though I mean all this area main doesn't change impervia service Ian I I admit weeds can grow up but when the weed is growing out of you know a foot and a half of of you know RCA and gravel pavement it's it's still an INF service okay another thing you mentioned that within the jcpnl easement you couldn't do any Landscaping but yet because of height limitations but yet you want to allow the parking of your parking your proposed Park extent of parking areas extends into the jcpnl easement correct so that's have you gotten written approval from jcpnl that you can Park somebody brings a backo in underneath we don't see anything in our in in the agreement that's contrary to that I mean the reason they create a differentiation is because you plant trees and over time trees get much much larger as opposed to equipment there's tons of properties in town that have similar and the same easement running through them they're allowed to have driveways parking areas things like that it's the Landscaping that they they you know right but this is construction equipment containers that's where I guess it would you know solicitor is it appropriate to ask for a copy of the JCP now easement language so that we know what's permitted and not within that easement through the property we can agree that and you know we will only store things within their easements at you know that are allowed by you know the agreements that we have Steve was that J we provided the title work I'm sure that's in there it's probably in the board file but can you look can you look can you look through that JC being the easan and uh just give a summary of yeah I don't have it with no I understand I I'm not saying for for next time yeah can I ask a question so I'm looking at page three and so I'm I'm gonna ask rul rul is it possible to know exactly where you're talking because I'm not an expert but I don't really see where the word is running off a lot on the everage road so if we're going to ask the applicant to look at something could we provide some information it's so funny you're reading my you're reading my mind I am texting okay right now the person who monitors that to tell me exactly stra list you can't be texting someone you're a board member you're going to become a witness you can't do that you got to you got to tell you got to tell okay our board engineer what to do I will tell you offline yes okay yeah soz cuz I so what I'm try yeah you're going to say what offline I am going to explain what are the areas to answer on you got to do it on you have to do this as part of the record this is based on your knowledge which you're allowed to bring to the board if you place it on the record so you can't do it offline you can't send a text you got to for the record right now so that Jackie can take take it down you guys got to stop talking so Jackie can take this down I I will I will discuss with Rakesh in detail all the areas within the Everett Road where we have floodings okay and then we can figure out from there if there is any Merit to this let me make a suggestion then yeah when the two Engineers meet you want him at the meeting so he can give them his area of concern or not because I'm not I'm not comfortable having a board member talk to Rakesh about okay his and her concerns there any mapping devices that that's what I'm trying to figure out so this way we can be one more specific so here's my suggestion you tell Rakesh and Jeff for them to contact OEM okay and see what mapping they have okay you're a volunteer so you know that there was flooding there but you have to you got to make your up your mind are you going to be stay on the board as a judge of this application or you want to be testifying I will recommend you guys approach Raymond Mr Ingram uh just to kind of get to Cynthia's question the chair's question could you on the topography sheet sheet three of 12 could you approximately show where the top of that Watershed where the drainage break is because it looks kind of pretty obvious we have a I mean we have a drainage map in the storm water submission we we provided to the board which I mean fully shows every separate range including just roughly this evening could you just show us where the top of that water shed is because it seems like it's pretty obvious roughly I mean basically you know H half the the storage area to the north it basically seems like it cuts about halfway through uh and everything to the north of that ultimately heads to the front and then there's kind of a break and and it kind of bends the rest of it kind of bends around and goes to the rear that's what I'm seeing on the map right is that with the regrading or with the existing grading we matched the existing so I mean that's consistent I mean it's easiest to see probably on sheet eight the grading PL but you know basically any regrading you're seeing here is not us really changing the site it's getting rid of all the stuff that they left behind so you know when you see us regrading all we're doing is we're taking out the piles that they left they had they had ramps up to the conveyors that's what's all the REM in the rear you know there's the remains of those recycled concrete piles they had we're just taking those off and putting things back the way it was flowing those impim yeah I I think if we could identify where specifically and how big this is I I'm thinking we might be making something we want to make sure it's safe thank you uh and then kind of the the last Point uh I think there were some questions on was related to the uh uh to the septic uh what we know it to be is we have a septic tank near the building there's a pipe that heads over to what we we think is a seepage pit over this area that was all opened up there was no evidence of any failures at this time it's it really wasn't vacant that long because again this was utilized by uh PS uh for their operation over here um you know it's our it's our opinion that we are not altering the size of the building how many gallons per per day can that septic take that's analyze because it predates there's no records of it it predates all those requirements so again my opinion you have a system that exists that legally exists and if you're not increasing the size of the building or the you know changing the use per se which we're really not it's a maintenance building then you're not doing anything that requires it to be changed where are the concrete where are the contractor offices going to be in the same offices that already exist the office office space septic is based on Space of office that is change Maintenance building is still a maintenance building nothing more so who checked out the septic system you did we did with the owner you know we opened it up together checked out the tanks and the line you know it appears operational there's no blowout anywhere it was it was operating for p could you again point out on it's very hard with that map to see things don't you don't have any other ex put it this way what use the this the plans you submitted and tell us tell them what page to look at to see this I the best page would be the sheet seven yeah the grading plan which is uh sheet seven not that's a plan on sheet s you can see it I mean in the northeast corner you know just past the building there's a a circle labeled septic tank um and then we have a covered pit which is located just off off the edge of the gravel which is where that's that's where the you know the pipe was flowing by the way where is that covered pit northwest corner of the rattel parking area the edge of Pap by 6ot covered P so you're telling me that right from the septic tank there's a line that goes so is that shown on sheet eight on sheet eight you can see the you see the line so that that se lateral is going underneath all this proposed Paving and parking area he's saying it exists now is this propos or exist right um again you know thinking about what this put it this way the board could have some sort of condition that it be inspected by I don't know who the health department well I I would suggested anything I mean um Mr Dary had a in a comment in his letter that that we you know obtain their approval I mean if you want us to obtain I don't even know that it would be a permit but some sort of response from them that you know you know if it's not failing it's unaltered and it's legal and that it's and that it's permissible to park heavy duty equipment and container trucks on top of it well I mean that's permissible because anytime you you're allowed to have a pipe that goes under pavement you can even have a seet that goes under pavement it's legally existing um it's it's not it's not required to meet C code and we're not we're not telling you so the condition would be review of existing septic by Health Department for adey for adequacy and compliance yeah I I guess we're making another applicant come back with very detailed information to us well I mean frankly this is also an outside agency approval this is the type of thing that all approvals get conditioned on right you know the agency that regulates this is the health department so typically you you'd approve a plan and just like DP permit Soil Conservation permit County planning board it will go to that jurisdiction and they'll provide that certification for review by your engineer I mean that's how that should be well that's that's if they need an approval for a new one so I have no problem with having the board condition review of the existing septic I can when there's a change of use right it's perfect it's normal and customary right for for the health department to provide a letter saying that the the existing septic system or or whatever whether it's a proposed septic system is sufficient to serve the proposed use and they're going to ask you questions similar to what I'm about to ask which is a comp comparison of the prior use that septic system legally you know legally and adequately served versus what you're proposing so from from a from a flow and a perspective and I know that you know there's a there's a maybe um a disagreement or a difference between what how flow is calculated before how flow is calculated now for all practical purposes uh flow is really based off of the number of users of that facility so does the number of users of this facility change from before when it was a concrete plant to when PSG was using the facility to what the afcan proposing and that's we can address that that's what they're going to ask you and that's what we're going to ask you to provide for next for the next time come in and I would say You're going to hear some traffic testimony that talks about how the traffic isn't increasing which I'll just throw out there if the same number of trucks were you know essentially were coming in when it was a concrete plant then you know then then we're going to have here that's about the best way you're ever going to determine whether the number of people using the facility is really changing but you know we can leave that up to the health department to determine I would also say that like any other person who has an existing building if they ever needed a new system we do still have ample space it's not in regulated areas which we could locate a new system but we just don't think that's necessary and and and that's why there is an outside governmental agency approval can't hear you and that's why it is an outside governmental agency approval that we can get that type of but typic we do require and ask for that information as part of our submission requirements so that's where we're asking I mean that's usually when you're building something new and that's why when we created this new lot we ensured that we had passing testing we're talking in circles everyone's agreed it's if the board the only question is is this a condition of approval or do you want the information beforehand if you're coming back next month why don't you just get the information beforehand it's you're not they're not asking for a review and approval of a new system you're asking them to review the existing septic system and to obtain a letter stating that it is adequate to serve the proposed use that sounds like feasibility it's not permability feasibility feasibility okay is one of the four essential elements of a development which the board has to find before they could Grant preliminary site plan or preliminary subdivision approved we we can Endeavor to try and get that I'm just sensitive of if if we don't get that in time for the next meeting I don't want to be in a position of saying oh you don't have that well you might now you've got to Ren notice that's well you don't have to Ren notice as long as you don't cancel a meeting well that's that's what I'm I'm saying let's let's defer the issue of whether it can be a condition of approval or not I'm suggesting you're hearing this what I what I'm hearing unless I'm wrong is you want this before you vote on the application you don't want it as a condition after can can you straw poll people if they they want this before they could vote on the application or not yeah can we get a vote so don you would I would like it before before before before before before before yeah okay one last thing and it is somewhat of a a Board of Health and state requirement issue that the existing Foundation that you're going to get rid of the old house it's noted that there's a well on that lot or on your map so I'm assuming that'll be decommissioned and closed in accordance yeah we can investigate I don't even know it may have already been closed when they demoed the house we don't know but we can check okay and and similarly if there was a septic system there that should be closed in accordance with the state rules so no C records we can investigate okay and notes in the plans to the effect that you would do that if it wasn't y any other questions uh related to related to the parking lights remember you mentioned that this is not like a parking lot or whatever and I did see comments from our experts about it my question is is it going to be similar to what you have on 165 River Road the lightings and everything sorry I didn't hear the question the lighting he want will the lighting proposed for this site be similar to what he has at 165 I don't know what he has a 165 but they they're 25 I mean again the parking lights outside the building are 25 foot full cut off downward facing you know we're trying to limit ourselves to only lighting the the used space um so we don't think we have any offsite impacts so that's the concern so there was a comment from our experts so I just want to make sure that because I what Wayne was saying is lighting is going to be much much deer than what you see on a parking lot did I get that right well so the reason we have have multiple 20ft fixtures around the building is because that's where the parking is the office space that is more uniformly lit I think what's throwing the calculations off is you know the rest of the site so it's a uniformity ratio we don't have the same uniformity because we're more concerned with lighting the used areas less concerned about lighting the storage areas and that's why your uniformity ratio is got that's much Clear thank you thank you can I ask a couple questions here um so Jeff mentioned this but in the prior board approval for Public Service Electric and Gas there was a condition to remove the stock piles of dirt Stone and crushed concrete what is the status of that I thought in the beginning it's all been basically removed my understanding was that most of that was given to the Township in the last few years put it this way I don't care where it went is there any left on this who of the board experts has been on the site there is a there is like a a short remains of the pile which will either get removed or you know R it into the final thing it's basically at this point just recyle concrete the same as the rest of the base here's is that true microphone microphone it's still piles I don't know if it's the original see the the condition stat that there that it was 20 in 20 20 that it was supposed to be removed I don't know if that that was determined by the previous engineer but those piles were 25 30 feet tall listen I just want to know are there any piles I don't care how tall they are of concrete on the site there is probably some minimal remaining material okay is nowhere near I assume the board's going to impose a condition that's got to be removed now there was testimony there was no condition because it was a temporary use we had a back and forth of PNG but there was testimony that there was contamination out at the site and because of that psng only wanted to use a certain part of the site and not the other part of the site what is the deal they also had said that um they had either an lsrp someone was aign what's the status of the contamination we know that there is a no is there no further action letter on the property has that been submitted to the uh no I don't think so okay so let's get it's a no further action letter from the engine D yes so let's get that submitted and do you know when that was issued I do not I just you know the applicant wouldn't have bought the property without all you know all the environmental concerns being removed so that's what they were provided okay once that's provided I would ask the board engineer maybe uh to call down to the D or do a op request or what whatever to find out what was done and when it was clean to get that no action letter Y that's all I had Wayne do you have anything else uh not really other than I'll just go through the letters briefly and I I I can say briefly because if I haven't touched on it we agree to it um the um we have no issue with the who's letter first uh the department of fire safety uh had a few comments All what the date uh March 15 2024 um is that part of Jeff's report though just making sure this from Jeff's report yes yes okay um they want nox boxes um numbering put it this way listen is there anything on that list that you're not going to agree to we've already testified as to the H not having hazardous material um there is a from the recycling coordinator uh there's a request what's the date March 19 2024 and is that also attached to Jeff's letter yes uh we agree to those those comments um switching over to rees's letter again we don't really have any uh objection other than um what we really wanted to point out was with regard to the DP permits for wetlands and flood planes um we show and we um does desate how we determined the flood Flames uh it's nowhere near the developed portion of the site we would you know we do not intend to seek any permissions because we're not doing any work um in those areas and the flood plane is uh um extremely distant from anything we're doing um when we made the application we had a valid Loi it's expired during this process but we are not doing any work in those limits and we're not doing any work off the limits of existing in ious so again we're not proposing to seek any new permissions because there's really no permit required you know the LOI determined what the buffer was what the wetlands were and we we were already well outside okay so what you're saying is every suggested condition in Reeses May 14 2024 letter you agree to outside of obtaining those permits because we don't feel we need them you don't need a the so I I'm uncomfortable here this is kind of going fast and there's a lot of questions and and issues but I just want to know what permits is he talking about he says they don't need we put it in the in the really in the form of a question that uh what number is it wait do you have the number here let's see uh uh General site plan comment 14 talking about the freshw wetlands now explain if you had a letter if you had an Loi why do you think the board shouldn't impose a condition that well you get the updated Loi because it's an extremely lengthy process to do we're not doing any work in the areas that were previously designated and approved it's not as if we don't have any Loi we we had a valid one when we applied here um and it was valid for the prior application so hold on it was valid until it expired on April 26 2024 there's no process to get it extended you have to apply for a new one it's not any quicker uh our extension is basically the exact same thing as a new one it doesn't move heck of a lot what's your opinion about this so if the if the app were proposing any activity to expand their footprint uh I I would be uh a little bit more um concerned the the proposed work is staying within the existing limits of of disturbance uh there's no uh disturbance proposed closer to the wetlands or really outside of the existing limit so I I given the fact that the the LOI literally just expired two weeks ago um I I would I really don't have uh concern if the applicant were to go back and get go through the expense in time the line would just be reverified there will be no permitting required the the concern would be hey if it's been years and there may have been changes in the in in the wetlands line and perhaps a permit is now required then I'd be a little bit more the bottom line you're G to make a recommendation you recommend that they say you don't have to extend the LOI yeah okay you recomend Sor good okay he's recommending that you don't impose a condition to extend that Loi can you straw poll everybody sure can than straw Donal um yeah I I'm I'm torn because we have a rule that they have to have it but I understand the applicant's position their application was deemed Complete because at the time it was submitted they had it the issue so it's the issue the issue is under the circumstances should the board if it approves because this is another agency approval right should the board POS a condition saying it has to be extended now you don't have to listen to the advice of the board engineer his advice was now I don't think so because they're not expanding any I would agree with that but and this is where the butt comes in if the applicant finds out they have to now put some storm order Management in they have to put they have to put in a septic system because the old one's not approved and it now and it now triggers an Loi Why Don't We Kick the Can down the road then until the next hearing because then we'll have we'll hear from the Board of Health and we'll have this meeting on the Storm War great idea can I ask one more question having to do with the the wetlands well before I just want to hear the other permits that they that they don't want thank you he said there were other permits so they're not permits so that's maybe that's where we we need to clarify what item um no 9 D 9 9d right and and and again it's not the wetlands was not a permit it was a verification of the wetlands line which dkin had that was valid up until three weeks ago I apologize um the other is the flood had FL Hazard area verification uh as well the the app can actually uh estimated the flood Hazard area using the D's methodology to estimate which is a very conservative methodology uh and even with the conservative estimation methodology the flood has area line shows up and if you look on sheet um actually it's not on the grading plan either because it's off the page it would be the overall if you look on sheet uh what sheet is that sheet four also has it I believe uh which is an overall plan that shows where the flood Hazard line is so the line at the bottom of the page that says fhl that's the estimate estimated flood Hazard area line which is within the wetlands areas for the most part um so you said and again FHA verification should be provided right and and what they say is you don't want to because because the line is nowhere near the development and I can take it a step further and say if I use the absolute highest level in the entire chart of the D the line still wouldn't touch developes to that you say I I I say again same it's the same sort of um same same line of reasoning that that I follow for the wetlands they Happ staying within their the existing limits and the flood has area line is vertically much further down than what the existing limits are and then also distance-wise it's several hundred feet away from the limits so I would be comfortable if that did not get a naturual flood has area verification okay and on that one it's not dependent on storm water improvements and septic no because it's so far away so this one's an absolute advice that uh under the circumstances based on what Mr Ingram said the board should not require an FHA very ification can you Str Str poll people on that Don you're good great okay all let's go we all okay okay I don't think weever finished the wet no we didn't but I I just when when he said we agree with everything but not the permits I yeah I guess we I'm I'm John I'm just nervous when we say we agree to everything and we haven't presented the facts for the board no I'm just for my notes I'm just trying to get it for my notes and then Lett next she has questions on the wetlands and then okay you're going to go back unless you wanted to go through every item then you go back and you ask any questions you want that were raised in the memo well they I I guess I haven't heard any discussion about why they shouldn't comply the variances that they're asking for related to driveway West aisle all that stuff the engineer hasn't talked about any of that we're going to be presenting planning testimony in support of the varant the planner is going to talk about the VAR okay I mean actually if you want no that's a fair point I will I will discuss the engineering components yes there are very definite engineering point but that's fair um but let me just go ahead and then say that the only again we agree to everything else the but stop for a second when he says you everything else I just want to make it clear so these reports they have different so I wasn't asking them about the Varian section that's proofs they have to put in or the waivers I was talking about the section the minor subdivision comments and the site plan comments those are the ones that become conditions that's what I was asking them about and I know there's still questions on Wetlands so don't even talk about variances yet go ahead it's probably more of a comment than a question I guess what um kind of makes me uncomfortable is the the one thing that makes me uncomfortable is the I just have so much junk in here thank you thank you so um it's really my observation from looking at the plan sheets there's a lot of Filth and it's um there are stock piles of material that seem to be encroaching on those Wetland areas and it's um I guess it's just a comet because it's it's hard to know um from the reality of the of the functioning of those Wetlands based on those Stu piles of material where are you seeing that what she there are no I want to know what sheet she's refering um for instance take a look at 12 and it's very um soft in terms of the color of the ink but you can see these um what I am interpreting as do piles very close and sort of encroaching on that Wetland area okay come on [Music] this those the on that remov right no is this still here that's what she wants to know are they still here good eyes I've been looking at I see that I thought that was a bunch of trees I that's are there's this there's this here a little clearer maybe John I'm just suggesting a break you a quick break they have to talk about this like a five minute break to all those online we will be taking a short five minute break let's go so miss patina on sheet three saw what she thought were looked like stock piles what did you guys determine there I recall from three or four years ago there were much larger piles back here which were all removed by the prior understood what shown on sheet three to the extent that there may be some remaining material back here it it is not allowed to be there and we will remove it and we will my suggestion is we have the to the board Town engineer come out with us and confirm that all the any remaining piles in those areas are removed because it's not the subject of an application it's not something we're trying to keep we don't want it in those but just quick you got your office prepared the plan right so what is the what are those things on ch3 there obviously the remains as I recall what was back there it was mostly some sort of soil but we'll make sure it's removed so real quick just because earlier Jeff you Jeff Wayne Uh you testified that that there may be some remains left but but before there were 30 foot tough house cuz I was referring to the stuff that there were large in the maintained area that's what I'm I think we're talking now about something that's even further south there was a little clearing there and they they were had some storage piles most of which were removed but to the extent anything remains it will be removed we don't we didn't put it there we don't want yeah and that brings me back to my um concern about the configuration of the Wetland so if those stock piles are removed and it goes back to maybe a natural um Contour maybe the wetlands actually would end up being bigger that's not how a delineation would work per se but if we told the DP it was out there all they would do was tell us to remove it and that's we will remove it and we will restore it so you know nothing of our application is hurting the Wetland we'll try to make it better by getting everything out of there that was intended to be there and what you try what you're saying is that if you go out for a s sidewalk you're going to try to have this stuff removed before you come back for the continued hearing so you can report that it will be removed I can tell you what's there I'm not going to say we're going to have it removed in the next two weeks but so that site walk will confirm whether or not the survey that you presented us is in fact true and those piles are there I believe it's accurate yes survey has to be accurate it's got to be files well it's showing yeah mounds of something yeah so yeah we we we'll verify I'm looking at the the topography that was submitted with the LOI the LOI plan and that doesn't show those those those mounts that that show up on your site plan I think that's but that may be that that Loi plan was from years ago when the pile was much bigger and that's what the prior owner removed that's why all you're seeing is some remnants now or could the prior owner have added to that area in those inter it doesn't really matter because they're going to go remove it they're going to report back what it was and then I'll be shocked if they don't agree to remove it we already agreed to remove yeah they already agreed so so what's the most efficient way to have for cash go out prior just to to verify that what's there is there cash and Jeff and Wayne should walk together okay between now and the next meeting right between now and the next meeting we do that okay all right fine y y yep all right all right I would like to suggest that we stop before Mr Ingram gets into any of the variances before he does anything else because I would like to take the board into a closed session to give them attorney client legal advice um where I need confidentiality to exercise my duty as an attorney I want to talk about use of social media by board members during the hearing process and I also want to talk about a recent case decided by the mors county assignment judge Diamond chip realy versus Township of start Sparta planning board where the assignment judge there disqualified eight members of the planning board on an application yeah so um why don't we what is our schedule like when can this hearing be continued so I mean Steve if you would like to turn around because I could offer you guys the first it depends on when you guys can schedule your site visit and make sure anything that the board has asked you can get department and I could possibly give you July 18th that is our only July meeting because the other one falls on the 4th so that's our only one for July and um the next one would be August 1st and see you already have one of your applications scheduled we already have one scheduled too right we have Old York Road I I don't think so no on August 1st is hon storage right July 18th is Countryside right yeah okay that's so we're already there for that yeah yeah yeah so so but I'm making sure that you guys have enough time to get everything and have a site visit because I'm sorry you're not going to take another spot right for an application July 18th would we have enough time are you sure yeah that's that's much yeah we would like we would prefer to have July okay and Jeffrey can you please just check their time all right so the hearing in this matter is going to be continued to July 18th with no need for further notice but what is the time ju July 19th okay so let's get an extension till September 30th then granted okay so now can someone make a motion to go into close session to get that attorney client um privileged legal advice from me that I talk about so move I'll second call I gotta do roll call chairwoman Miss Cynthia Schaefer yes Vice chair Miss UL dami yes Mr Randy Bron Miss Lor Christina Miss Donna Drew yes no if you mind just here for me to all members online the board is going into a closed session so unfortunately um the zoom meeting is going to be logged off within a few minutes good night all thank you good