--------- recing to order the Zoning Board of adjustment R in Township New Jersey regular meeting February 6 2025 notice of meeting the notice requirements of the open public meetings acts have been satisfied by the placing of a notice of this meeting on the bulleon board at the municipal building fing same with the Township Clerk and transmitting same to the Hun County Democrat the C news the star lend and
the Trenton Times Roll Call please chairwoman Miss Cynthia schaer yes here Vice chair Mr RI here Mr Steve fario here Mr Randy block here Mr Jim Ferrero hey J here we're good can you hear me yes yeah thank you
thank you Miss Lindsay cool brel she's asked to be excused Miss lorett ktina she is also asked to be excused Miss Donna Drew here and Mr James Miller he has also asked to be excused board professionals board attorney Mr John drill here Township planner Mr Jeffrey Vella here board engineer Mr rash Dari pres traffic assult Mr J Troutman here board planner Miss Jessica cwell here an acting conflict landscape consultant sir
I'm so sorry okay good I do have it I do have it and board secretary Taylor vau here okay can I get a motion to excuse the board members who are not here tonight so move second roll call please chairwoman Miss Cynthia schaer yes Mr rul dami yes Mr Randy block yes Mr Steve fario yes Mr Jim Ferrero yes
Miss Donna Drew yes okay moving on to comments announcements hearing having none distribution correspondence and meeting minutes and there are no resolutions this evening so we'll go right to the first application boa case number 10-22 Esco Precision Inc location block 36.029456
-7 11 and 17 Royal Road applications for a Time extension request for obtaining zoning and construction permits anyone from Esco here does not appear that anyone from Esco is here so can we put this off till next month and ask the applicant to come in we've granted multiple extensions on this and it's just uh we'd like to understand what is happening yeah maybe you could ask the board secretary to contact them and say that you had question questions you wanted to know
why they needed the additional extension after so many previous extensions and that you want them here to be able to answer that before you consider their request is that what you want to ask the board secretary to do yes we do thank you very much moving on to the next one boa case number 22221 applicant Salam Bashi Abdul Basher apologies if I messed up the name block
6.07 LW 3961 o Clinton Road applicant time extension request for resolution compliance good evening good evening Madam chairperson members of the board Steven Gruenberg on behalf of Seline bashier the board will recall that we received a planning variance uh in order to be able to have Mr Basher construct his family home on this lot um one of the conditions was that we needed to go to the Ron Township committee to uh get
approval for our use of the certain part of the access which we got and uh the things that we did submit our plan revisions um except they weren't done in a timely fashion so they were supposed to be done by September 21st of last year and uh we're requesting a one-year extension they have been submitted but just in case there's any revisions that need to be made we're asking for that time period to be extended to September 21st
2025 and that's condition one of the board's resolution okay so this's go slow for a second so you're requesting a modification of condition one of resolution 2023-24 a one-year extension from September 21 2024 to September 21 2025 to revise
the plans and get signatures on the plans correct that's correct okay anything else the other one is condition 12 which is the time within which to obtain zoning and construction permits and commence and complete construction um that was supposed to be done by September 21st 2025 we require an Loi as one of the uh specific approvals and permits that is going to be necess NE AR um and that's
14e njde issued letter of interpretation that's not going to happen between now and September 21st 2025 we would request uh an extension to September 21st 2026 do that let me just restate this one so you're also requesting modification of condition 12 of resolution 2023 d03 for one-year extension from 921 2025 to 920 21 2026
and that is to obtain permits correct zoning and construction permits so the reason for the extension of number one was it took time to get the Township's consent for what we honestly we got that in April of last year we got we needed the Township's consent in order to be able to use the access way that there was a question as to the ownership of and we secured that from the township committee okay and the reason for the extension
for number 12 is because we needed the EP Loi permit okay just a timing question um the LOI has to be in hand before permits can be issued we're making it later than so it seems in congruent yeah who whoa whoa isn't not a site no we we just need the the resolution required our plan
to be the the comments of them to be addressed and revised by September 21st of 2024 in order for us to get permits we have to satisfy the outside governmental agency approvals one of which is the de now I understand now I understand he's saying you need more time in September 21 2025 to get the plot plan signed because he's saying you also need that Loi
to get that sign he he's suggesting that you seek an extension of condition one and 12 to the 921 2026 that's fine as well okay I'm me hold on yeah otherwise you out of sink I thought it was just to get the plans revised as the way the resolution was not to get them let me take a look hold on but I'll take the other year
no to revise them and get them signed that's what it says okay so now it's the same reason for both it's they need the njde LOI I can tell you that Mr Basher is very anxious to get this done to build his house I think you I think you put in what you need to put in anyone have any questions no any have a problem with
what he's asking for I don't anyone no no can I get a motion yeah motion to modify the two conditions to Grant the two extensions okay motion to modify the two conditions to Grant the two extensions Grant the two extensions next second can I get a roll call please chairwoman Miss Cynthia schaer yes Vice chair Missi yes Mr Randy block yes Mr Steve fario yes m Mr Jim
Ferrero yeah do you hear me yes there's a time delay that's all Miss monitors yes thank you all very much appreciate okay moving to the third uh application of the evening boa case number 02-2020 applicant is Flemington Family Partnership LLC location block 77.2 3 lot 31 328 Highway 202 application for
preliminary and final site plan with d variant and both variant for proposed car dealership good evening good evening how are you madam chair good before we start can we please just remember to speak into the microphones both Prof the applicant and our professionals and board members too for the record I'm doing a good job so far that's right okay that's right
one I think we found our Jackie part twoo that's right I'll try and speak slowly as well yep that's good uh Madame chair I will just note for the record that this application pertains to both Lots 31 and 31.0 I'll go through that in my opening they all part of the application you were reading right from the agenda
that should also be 31 and 31.1 that's true it's just the typo on yep thanks sorry that completely not okay noted D not yes good evening everyone my name is Cara kazinski I'm with the law firm mcnali Yos kazinski and lime and I'm
here this evening representing the applicant Flemington Family Partnership LLC the properties that are the subject of this application are located at 324 and 328 Highway 202 and this is block 7223 lots 31.0 and 31 I have been involved with this project since the outset and we started working on this in 20 20 when we went
under contract for the property at 328 Highway 202 since 2020 we've taken a great deal of time and effort to design what we believe is a project that is not only attractive but functional which has not been easy in light of the difficulties affecting this these properties which you'll hear by way of testimony during this application specifically I'm referring to the court ordered shared access driveway off of Route 202 and the
master plan roadway design required by the Township's master plan by way of History this property was created as a result of a court-ordered subdivision of the property which was previously known as block 7223 lot 31 and that court ordered subdivision resulted in the creation of the properties that are the subject of this application again known as block 72.2 3
lots 31.0 and 31 that subdivision was ordered by the court in order to resolve a partition action that was filed by the owners of lot 31 in short the owners could not agree on how to use or dispose of that property so the court subdivided it and essentially gave each one of them an interest in one of the sub divided
Parcels in furtherance of that interest and the court order and in light of the DOT regulations that came down prior to the court ordered subdivision which you'll hear a great deal of from our traffic engineer at the appropriate time the owners entered into an agreement pursuant to court order to share a single access off of Route 202 for both of those properties okay let's Che quickie but that the shared access of part of the court order they then
entered into an agreement on how to do it correct yes that's correct okay pursuant to that agreement the owners would share the cost of construction and maintenance of that roadway and in connection with this application before you we have the consent of the owner of lot 3101 to proceed which is why that's also part and parcel of this application the applicant is applying for preliminary and final major site plan approval us variance approval we
have a number of bulk variances and design waivers all of which you will hear lengthy testimony on from both our engineer and our planner and these pieces of relief are requested in order for the applicant to construct buildings on lot 31 for use as two new motor vehicle agencies specifically a Nissan and a Toyota and these would be relocated from another facility currently within the
township you'll hear testimony with regard to that facility from our representative of the applicant as our first witness in connection with those new motor vehicle agencies there will also be accessory used motor vehicle sales and motor vehicle repairs as both of those are permitted by your definition of new motor vehicle agency which is at section
new and used motor vehicle sales are permitted in the Township's B2 zones which is where these properties are located but as a conditional use and subject to a Litany of conditions some of which as I'm sure you can guess are not met by the applicant's project which is one of the reasons why we're here before you tonight because you're asking for D3 conditional use variances for those deviations correct correct
the project also proposes the installation of paved parking concrete walks the paved access drive that I gave you a little bit of history about and Landscaping lighting signage storm water management utility services and other ancillary improvements in connection with the project
I noted the master plan very briefly in the beginning of my opening and we will go into a great detail with regard to how we are providing for the master plan roadway that has been outlined in the Township's master plan I have a handout as well so everyone can see exactly what we're referring to and that Master Plan roadway was referenced in your 2008 circulation plan uh we have worked with with the board's professionals to provide what we
believe is an appropriate location at the rear of the property for this plan however we are open to uh commentary and any other thoughts and um uh potential improvements to that location uh that we can accommodate in order to give the township what it's looking for in connection with that potential future construction of that roadway the applicant believes that at the end of its presentation we will have provided the board with
both lay person and expert testimony from all of our professionals that will enable this board to Grant the relief requested and most importantly that it will have addressed the concerns and comments not only from the board and its professionals but also of any members of the public that may be here tonight that are interested in this application and we welcome comments and the opportunity to discuss any questions and concerns that the public may have
quick great opening just one question I believe you also the application also requires two D1 variances which I just would like you to mention or if you want I can mention you can tell them you can correct me if I'm wrong your choice the D1 variance would be for the two what we believe may be two principal uses on the property so that one it's both of our planner opinions and my opinion you do not need a D1 use variance because it's not multi multiple uses to car
dealerships in our opinion are allowed under the ordinance as conditional uses what we believe the two D1 variances are if you look at the plans there's a hot box on your on the dealership lot 31 but there's also a hot box proposed on lot 31.0 and there's no other use on 3101 so in our opinion the hot box on
3101 is a principal use not an accessory use because there's nothing on that lot to be accessory to therefore that requires a D1 variance and your shared access road is over 3101 and under the knuckle versus Little Ferry planning board case from 2011 that's can't be considered accessory because there's nothing it's accessory to and in fact in the knuckle case there was something it could have
been accessory to but because it was being also used for the other lot the Supreme Court said that required a D1 so it's the two planners in my opinion that you need two D1 variances not three you don't need one for multiple uses because you have one use basically two different tenants so to speak okay but you need the second Hot Box I believe your engineer is going to explain why that's
proposed and the access Drive which um again you're going to explain why the shared access why that's a good idea there might be a very good reason to Grant the D1 variance but it's a D1 variance you agree I do okay thank you then let's we just set the table so to speak so let's go thank you for that clarification um and unless anyone has anything else I'd like to call my first witness um but I will say I did forget I have
um I'd like to get through obviously as many witnesses as we can tonight however I'm not looking to rush I want to make sure that every issue is addressed everyone obviously has the opportunity to ask questions and we can thoroughly give you the testimony that you're looking for uh my Witnesses are Mr Tony gady so look as you're mentioning the names I'd like all your witnesses to come on up and near that microphone but we're going to do a mass swearing in okay I have three of the five here right now okay um just so you know
yeah um so the first will be Tony gady okay spell them for me t o n y okay that's easy one GE you said you're right you're right g i a g i a n o n o t TI TTI okay and he is a what I didn't get that right Tony please give your the spelling your last name g e o g e
o TTI TTI so it's g e o n n o TTI wow and is he a fact witness or is he an expert he's a fact witness okay next give me give me another you said two fact Witnesses so who you uh no just one fact witness uh my next will be our engineer Kelly uch spell your first and last name I'm gonna swear you're all in at the end all right k e l l e y aha I would have had that
wrong okay I would have had that right O Apostrophe suu CH okay and you are the applicant's what engineer okay so you are a PE I am a PE and a PP I'm licensed in New Jersey for both and I'm licensed in Pennsylvania New York but we're not qualifying you yet but you're not going to be testifying as the planning expert you are testifying as the applicant engineering expert correct okay who who else I know that James
Necker okay let's James I got what how do you spell the last name NE c k r okay and you are I'm the applicants architect okay you are an RA registered architect state of New Jersey yes applicants architectural expert okay who else you have I know they might not be here Gary Dean Gary Dean who I know is going to be the he's a PE and he's going to be the
applicant's traffic engineering expert correct and a Jim Kyle and Jim Kyle who's going to be uh PP aicp and he's going to be the applicants planning expert correct he actually may be here shortly he's tied up in whatever whatever applicants drive back she got over an hour yeah but two hours doesn't don't tell me that okay and we have a bunch of experts
at the table so why don't we start here and we'll go around the horn identify yourself for the record again we're going to swear in everyone at the end I just want to get everyone's name Jessica C board planner I'm Jay Troutman the board's traffic expert Jeff rockes Dary board engineer Tim K oani conflict landscape architect hold on spell that last name and spell it slowly k by the way you have the the winner of the hard names
tonight name yeah it's easy you have say it's like an Italian name except it's I can give you my card but for the record spell your name k a l u h i o k a l a ni I okay and you are a licensed landscape architect and what firm are you with ERI okay now let's get everyone whose name I just
mentioned to stand up and we have to remember that Gary Dean and Jim Kyle when they eventually appear will have to be sworn everyone's going to put the right hand up does everyone swear or affirm the testimony you're going to give this matter the truth the whole truth is nothing but the truth you're going to go around the horn yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes okay
you let me know when you're ready no take it away all right uh Kelly could you put up sheet eight please okay Mr gady uh you have given your name and your spelling for the board could you please describe your position with the applicant yes I'm director of real estate holdings for the beans organization and how many years have you held that position four years have you
been involved in other beans projects in the state of New Jersey yes I have how about in maridan Township yes I have and have you appeared before this board before yes I have do you recall when you started working on this project we began working on the contract to purchase it in 2020 and were you involved at that time yes I had just started basically at Fred Beans was this your first project it was my first project lucky you um were you
involved in the due diligence phase yes I was and obviously now you're involved in the land use process correct so you have worked with the professionals that are here tonight throughout this project uh including the land use process yes I have okay did you hear my opening with regard to the proposed use of the property yes I did and is that accurate that Mr Beans is looking to relocate his Toyota and Nissan facilities is that
correct that's correct where are they currently operating in the township they're on um 31 and 202 we have two buildings there one house is the Toyota and the other one is the Nissan car brand do you know how long they've been there uh I know we've been there since 2012 I'm not sure how long the buildings have been there beyond that okay uh Fred has been operating those uh dealerships out of there since 2012 2012 Okay so Fred I assume is Fred Bean yes beans put on
bean b e a n oh beans okay yeah thank you you're welcome thank you uh to the best of your knowledge have you ever had any complaints or violations issued by the township uh or any entity with regard to that facility nothing I'm aware of and just give the board a little bit of information why is
the applicant looking to relocate we're looking to relocate to uh build a purposely built building for both Toyota and Nissan which have changed their brand since we've uh started renting here and also Fred isn't really a big renter he's more of an owner oh so he rents that facility over on 31 we're renting that those two buildings okay and he's been renting there since 2012 2012 is when we took took over what are the the dealerships over on rout 31 currently that's uh it's
the Toyota building and the Nissan building okay same ones we're looking to relocate yep um did he recently have to extend his lease for that facility in order to proceed with the land use application at the end of last year we had to renew for an additional five years okay and that hopefully will cover us through this land use
process uh does the applicant uh own or does the Fred Beans company I should say uh own other locations within the township yeah coming up the road on on 31 we have a Hyundai dealership and we also have a carar which is an auto repair auto body repair sh I believe both of those had applications before this board as well correct that's correct does he rent those facilities
sorry does he rent those facilities are owned by the organization thank you okay so you've had experience with the township and other car dealerships within the town that that's correct so you are aware of the Township's concerns for making sure that the dealerships have a certain look maintain a certain operational standard um and how important it is to maintain that within the township yes we are and it's sort of
what we do anywhere where we operate if you ever saw the way we maintain our buildings Fred Fred Beans does a wonderful job of keeping them up and investing in the property you know I'm going to fast forward to one of my questions later since you went there why don't you just give us a little understanding of the Fred Beans company where they operate how long they've operated let the board get to know him a little bit yeah we're we're celebrating our 50th year in business this year um we were predominantly starting in the
doown market in Bucks County and from there now we've branched out uh we just had a recent acquisition in Abington Township we also are up in Mechanicsburg we just purchased three buildings in Mechanicsburg there uh we have Washington New Jersey we have these buildings Here In in Flemington and we're in Exton and um Westchester market now too we also we also I'm sorry I was just going to say do you own all those buildings all those buildings are owned
with the exception of the Westchester building that's owned by Ford Motor Company and who who owns the buildings that you're here in Flemington the ones on Route who owns the Toyota and Nissan on Route 31 correct I don't know who the landlord is okay I have that probably somewhere in the application um listen it's in the application
that's [Music] applic I can I can get that okay the beans organization also operates the Carstar brand which is a which is loo body shop Car Quest which is Parts uh we also have um one of the largest Parts distributor ships on the East Coast which services not just our buildings and Our Brands but throughout the throughout the whole Eastern Seaboard so
they've got a little experience with what they're looking to do yeah Fred Fred's a very very much a student of the industry it's pretty handson too every day at 85 he's in work okay so thank you I appreciate that um so to that end and the Township's interest in making sure that the dealerships maintain a certain standard um they may be looking to impose conditions on any approval that they Grant uh in order to achieve that
end uh is the applicant willing to work with the board to impose any reasonable conditions and and make sure that they're satisfied should they approve the application without a doubt I have a question did Mr Beans approach the current landlord and offer to purchase was that an option it it was an option for it was an option for the organization and then with the rebranding of of Toyota to Nissan it would be a very extensive remodel so we
elected to stay on this property to bring this to fruition to build two new purposely built brand uh you know brand that is being uh put forth today by Toyota and Nissan so can you help us understand what you mean by rebranding because I'm I don't understand I'm sorry when you see uh the car dealerships you'll see that they changed the facade you know Nissan will go to silver and red Hyundai want to Brown so that's the manufacturer requesting
that the owner of those properties Rebrand them to the new branding that the manufacturer has and he he he has done that in the facilities he's in a couple years ago yeah we did that to the carar building and we just finished the renovation in December of 23 I believe on the Hyundai building okay but those are buildings that he owns correct corre and there was actually and to the extent that you know if not I can certainly
have Mr Beans here he was willing to come here tonight um to testify further but to the extent that you know there was a a great deal of dialogue with the current owner attempting to purchase the property correct yes there was uh was there um let's say a a vast difference of opinion as to the value of that property yes there was okay and that that made this presumably the best and possibly only option for the beans Corporation to
move those dealerships to this area was the last option that we had at that time okay last question when you say Rebrand I'm thinking remodel is that what's yours it's remod changing the car yeah we're only changing I'm only talking the building itself the dealership building itself I got I got to follow on that so that was that was helpful what you just said so you so you guys tried to buy the property but there was a disagreement over the value right cuz that Toyota
building is pretty it's it's not old that that Toyota building is I mean they redid it right Ju Just so you I'm not testifying obviously but let me just I assume that something that goes into the cost is whatever the manufacturer wants you to do in terms of redoing the the side so to stay it's not just reaching an agreement with the owner to buy but it's also having to calculate in how much it costs to do the remodel which is
easier than the Rebrand and therefore what you're saying is it ended up being substantially less money to buy a vacant property which was zoned for conditionally permitted dealership and build a brand new building rather than buy the existing buildings and have to redo the exteriors is that what you're saying yes that's what he's saying my next my next question was going to be if Toyota has certain requ Ms that you're in Nissan right correct that you're you
have to do correct you have to do all right so and the not I'm sorry yeah go ah not to interrupt you but um we also have to add service pays which is a very big expense to do with lifts and those kind of things uh so that's also it's not just Cosmetics sometimes it's the operation of the building but ideally for you guys it it would have made it would have been life would have been a lot easier if you could have worked something out with the owner that's correct the landlord I should say yes
that's correct okay thank you and I could just follow up just at now that the board has the benefit of that additional testimony I'm going to ask you the other question again was the uh beans Corporation did they have to enter into a new lease in order to continue operating at that facility while we go through the land use process it wasn't new it was just an extension extension and what was the shortest extension that the owner would agree to five
years and that happened last year we we finalized that in like November of last year let's assume assume for argument sake that the board granted an approval like three months from now how long from the approval to when you would do the construction and be able to get a CO to move in that's that's a tough question one one that Fred's been asking us on a
daily basis we we need to go out and do more um More Exploring as far as cost for site work and those those put it this way it's conceivable it could take five years correct well I I think I think if all the permits were in place and everything was there and we were ready to go I I think we'd be probably about an 18 to 24 month build that's of construction but you don't you also need all the testing you need soil testing
you need construction grade plans and everything yeah and and the other thing is we'll be building two structures at one time on that property instead of one building per property right so you might say that you have 18 months of actual construction but I'm figuring you have it probably at least 18 months of the other stuff so at minimum would you say at minimum it's reasonable to assume it would be three years from when the board if the board granted approval yes sir
and it could go up to 5 years yes it could okay any other questions yes yeah go ahead Don for and I'm not done just so you know I did have other questions so please I don't want to I'll check off my questions it's more operational kind of question that's that's where we're going next okay okay so I'll wait until you go for your testimony that's mine go ahead so heading to the operation can I ask my questions yeah please so I'm trying to understand this okay um concern that
there's going to be empty business uh car dealership lots and I'm I'm just trying and I know you can't testify for the landlord um when these lots are empty these businesses are empty is there a possibility that he the whoever owns this property can turn it into something else or do they always have to stay automobile dealerships what ask is what zone are the current Toyota and Nissan
buildings located in B2 correct I'm not asking well put it this way I'm GNA ask one of your Witnesses and what Jim Kyle's going to say is B2 then I'm going to ask him what are the permitted uses in the B2 and then he's going to tell the board the permitted uses in the B2 and then we're going to ask him well what type of uh uses could those buildings be converted to and then he's going to say any of the uses in the B2 okay but that's my prediction okay okay
so I I I don't know if I can say it by so there is the concept that auto dealerships always rent that there is an investment group out there that always owns the property below car dealerships and that car dealerships never own their property so I'm just trying to figure this out why don't we ask this if the beans the beans organization I assume that there's I don't know which
what the names of all the beans are but I imagine that there's going to be some LLC owning lot 31 which is probably going to be somehow related to the beans that are in the business individually and they're going to own it and then they're going to rent it to the dealerships which are also owned by beans just like doctors do with their office buildings and a lot of
lawyers do with their Office Buildings is that a correct assumption I can tell you that the contract purchaser is the same as the applicant however I could see that happening exactly as you described down the road because that that's fairly okay so so um so so so technically in other words a dealership might not own the building but um the individual limited liability partners probably are going to be connected to both because quite frankly
they can make a lot of money that way okay let me ask your your the thought um because you couldn't come to an agreement with the current landlord um is it your speculation that he that that difference in the price was because he can quickly turn those properties around to other dealerships I don't think and only answer if you can I just don't want no no no I understand I understand what you're saying yeah I'm just trying to
figure out what we're you know what's going to end up yeah so if you can't answer that that's fine I I don't know the facts to answer that question but if he was interested in a quick sale of his property to somebody else maybe he would have allowed us to have the extension terms lot less than the five years yeah okay you know but we tried know we really Fred Fred met with him personally they went out for lunch and it just it wasn't wasn't happening the dealerships that you're building on the new lot by the same size as the dealerships you
have currently no they're not are they larger the Toyota is smaller okay and the Nissan Jim I think Nissan is larger the Nissan is larger Toyota is smaller yeah okay how about the total is it the same like if you had both why don't you wait for the engineer for that yeah okay all right thank you let me make a note
okay so um Tony let's start talking about the current operations and uh how that's going to translate into the new operations um what are the current hours and days of operations of the facilities uh the Monday through Friday facilities open their doors at 7 o'clock close at 8 o'clock at night and the early the Early opening at 7:00 is for service um the late night at 8:00 is then when sales shuts down okay and what time does sales start sales starts at
8:00 and is it anticipated that the new facilities will follow the same hours and days of operation yes the operations are set up around those hours we're open on Saturdays from 8 to 5: also thank you Sundays no no work on Sundays number of employees that you currently have at the other location
46 okay and is it and that's for both dealerships and service and every aspect of the operations that's right to the greeter in front of the building okay uh do they all work at the same time are they on shifts shifts and typically what would those shifts be well the the shop itself runs on straight time but the shifts are the salespeople and the reception desk and cashier okay so give me an idea as to to a typical Monday through Friday uh shift
process uh so as far as as in cashier you know so a cashier B run they may run three shifts a day just to have someone come in a couple hours each day it's easier to hire people in that regard okay as we said the shop Parts all those run the standard hours of the store Sal one person would work that entire seven to eight and in service in service okay and sales uh I'm not sure of what they rotate but the sales people rotate in and out um there's a minimum of four or
five at each of the stores at all times can you just repeat what you said about um 7 AM is when service starts 8 AM sales start and what Monday through Friday they go to when at night time is at 8 o'clock service shuts down at 5 okay right got it do you have any idea and if you don't that's fine but how many people the maximum number of people that would be on site at any one shift
employees would be the 46 if that could happen was there those 46 are hired for that store got it okay um okay let's talk about the vehicles themselves so you get uh deliveries of vehicles correct yes we do um and you also get deliveries of operational materials that are required for the facilities paper uh you know computers
Parts things like that that's correct can you uh discuss uh let's talk first about delivery of vehicles um what is the frequency of a delivery of vehicles can you before you even do that where do the delivery um the help me the truck that Carri the the car carrier can you show us where when I go there first I was going to have explained if you want to do that first that's fine go
ahead this is sheet eight of the site plan that was submitted so I don't know y so obviously you're aware that you're not allowed to have the new car carriers stop on the roadway correct right so just show the board where they're
designated to unload cars on the site depending on depending on what time the car carrier is coming in with the vehicles we it needs it needs a straight it needs a straight run so it could back the cars off the carrier so in the aisles that are in front of the normal parking area so let's or you guys want us to orient where he is that be helpful yeah you okay so let's let's just what she what sheet are you looking at this is sheet eight of the C where's the north arrow pointing
to the upper right hand corner Y correct you have to say yes it's right here yes sir okay okay so the upper right hand corner is North where is Route 202 so that would is running up Northwest portion of the site and you the area you're discussing with regard to the uh delivery vehicles the car deliver vehicle so they would be coming down 202 and entering where in in the in
the drive in the proposed access Drive which is on lot 31.0 correct come around and around and come around and enter lot 31 so put it this way you have on sheet 31 you have a truck turn plan is that a truck turn plan for a fire Tru or is that a truck turn plan for a car car car car it says truck turn plan for a car car yeah it's there so maybe you showed AB board sheet 31 instead of the
sheet you're on let me see if the engineer EAS yeah he might be easier for that okay I wanted to get in the frequency of the vehicles and that from his testimony but maybe the location circulation do the do the okay do what he's do the frequency with him have the engineer do the rest of the stu okay so obviously if the board has questions regarding location and circulation we'll have we'll do that later I started
asking before John did I was just wanted to get a grasp of what types of trucks the size of them and I think you were going to ask them about frequency y so if you're able to say x amount of frequency for these type of trucks y for yep just want to get an idea y so give us the operation so tell us what kind of vehicles come in as far as car carriers what's the Frequency the timing uh take us through a normal week in the life of the facility okay um the the car
carriers they they work that out with the general manager as far as when they're coming to make their deliveries so we know when they're arriving we know when the trucks are going to enter our lot the car carrier uh vehicle itself is probably the largest length of vehicle that we take in on any day of the week at the dealerships usually how big usually the the box trucks are 28t box trucks that will come in and how many of those per day we may
we may get two to three of those a day two to three a day right but that could be a a marand company that's supplying paper towels and oil dry and those things that are coming off the back they're they're drop they have a drop bed on them where they come down we'll unload them with a pallet jack or a forklift and bring it into the shop so those are box trucks though they're box trucks tractor trailers we have very few car carriers know the size of those no I don't but
that is the largest that's the largest truck and trer that come into the lot just let's just make this easy Jay you know the size of a car carrier what what's the size of a car carrier w50 and what does WB 50 mean besides wheelbase 50 what does that mean it's just a an articulated vehicle uh with a 50ft wheelbase okay how long is the vehicle all
together tror about 65 fet 65t okay and our engineer can go through the circulation plan for that yep um you indicated that they are the delivery days and times are coordinated with the general manager um so we have full control over making sure that two of them aren't there at any one time and that they're they're staggered as necess
how many a week yeah that's what I want okay I'm getting there um so they could be coordinated um typically how many would come in a week um the past week I asked the general manager the past week at two of our stores that I as him we we received in six cars for a week six and those are the 65 F ones correct okay okay and typically do you know when they
are scheduled yes we do we're we're told when they are scheduled so we can be prepared because don't forget when they take the truck when they take the cars off of the truck then our our drivers then take the car and put it in an inventory so we have to coordinate the times they're there with our our our salesmen and um service guys that move the cars from coming off the cter okay in your experience typically it's definely within the hours of operation that we talked about oh yes it is your
guys inspect the cars to make sure they're not damaged or anything like that everything unless it's an obvious damage on the car sitting on the carrier everything comes off the carrier and you you've seen them they're covered in plastic with foam so you really can't tell what's going on if there's any scratches or dents with the car until they're unwrapped and prepped and at that time our once the carrier unloads you're not waiting for them to be unwrapped and the carrier is leaving the site you're saying no sir once once the once the
cars come off the carrier leaves the lot okay how many cars per carrier say what Randy how many cars per carrier we up to six and um approximately how long does it take to unload those six cars probably they're in out within the hour and they abide by all restrictions
that the state has with regard to idling a Vehicles noise Etc on the property yes they do so you've got six a week about six cars per carrier they're there for about an hour uh WB 50 was 65 foot length coordinated with the general manager and around any do you typically see them come in the mornings in the afternoons
in the evenings and and if it it happens throughout the day that's fine too but is there any typical times that it usually comes no they're within the workday okay all right so that's carriers any other questions carriers and we can talk about this later but you know my style when I was reading all these things I was overwhelmed with the traffic and when you look from the there pass through sneakers to all the
way to the next light that's a busy area and so I was just wondering if I drove there a few times just to see based on the reports so I'm just throwing it out there that's a very big concern so what he's telling you is make sure that Mr Dean your traffic expert addresses that that's that's what you're telling him right yes yes just want to give you heads up you give him a heads up right yeah thank you thank you very much um is it typically in the best interest
of the general manager to schedule these deliveries at times that would be most traffic compatible for lack of better work without a doubt he'll he'll try to do it when he could unload them with any uh upsetting the day with their activities anything else on carriers okay so now let's move on to the Box structure so we talked about the fact that there were about um
28 uh two to three box day day yep and they 28 foot box truck it's the biggest yep that's the largest um and they would typically make deliveries of you just say that for the board because I kind of cut you off when you were doing that testimony it would be the supplies that the that the facility needs to operate and also um we're including in that count where we have parts that are coming in for the s that are being serviced um and are they also
coordinated with the general manager those aren't okay um when do they typically come to the site again we'll see most of our activity right in the morning when around 8 n o'clock for those typees of vehicles those types of trucks and the general manager can coordinate the delivery of the carriers um at times that don't correspond to those delivers well don't forget the box truck TRS are coming at will we really don't have coordination of when they're arriving understood we
have a receiver that takes care of making sure that they're taking care of and unload it and put in in stock do they come into the same portion of the site as the carriers they'll come back by the service in Parts area so we'll go through that a little bit a little bit more once the engineer comes in we try to keep all deliveries everything goes to the rear of the building for two reasons we don't want to clog up the front of the building and the view of the building itself and also that's where our customers are parking and employees are parking so we try to keep
it in front of an inventory area that how long would a supplier be on site making a delivery maybe H and the same restrictions on idling of vehicles uh noise Etc comply with all state requirements that's correct any other vehicles other than the employee vehicles and Patron vehicles that would be on site typically well we have the cars that are waiting to be serviced we have of course the
inventory cars that are there then we have the cars being delivered to buyers so that would be but other than the delivery of the uh cars we carriers and your actual Supply deliveries the rest of them are U your employee cars your customer cars and your cars that are there on site for sale right and then you also have and then your service we also have the small trucks that maybe service the coffee machines take away to rags those kind of things that are coming in and out and during the activities of you
know the daily life of the of the store how often does that happen throughout the day I I don't know have you ever had any issue with congestion on site at your current location with all these different deliveries there there it has not much to do with the deliveries as much as just congestion with you know the ability to park you know to get the staff parking where it needs to and those kind of things but that would be accommodated for in this in this
project without a doubt um the the other thing that we have too is since we own our own Parts distribution warehouse we schedule our parts deliveries to be after hours where they deliver them uh at at night time 8 o' 9 o'clock at night into a seal into a secure cage that's in the inside of the building so those trucks you know one or two a night possibly just come in smaller truck maybe a for transit or
whatever to drop off small parts that they need for the next morning so they're not interfering at all with the operations of the facility not interfering at all though again at the right time please make a note I would have concern of those because of the neighborhood and all that so the timing for those would be an issue but again it's not a diesel it's not a diesel truck it's not a it's not anything that's noisy or air brakes or anything on this and what type of a vehicle would deliver a Ford
Transit little van how long are they usually on site oh maybe 15 20 minutes they unload and they leave just a quick point of reference for the board GNA ask Jeff is there an ordinance that says if you got a use in the B2 Zone and in a buts of residential Zone there are certain limitations on the hours of operation yes there is what's the Lim the
limitation for the hours of operation is from it can't be from 12 a to 5 [Music] a.m. from from the initial testimony yes section 296 d144 hours of operation thank you for that sorry Jee could you repeat that I was because I I
knew I mean I I know each of the board members Tendencies let's just say that Jeff could you just repeat it I'm sorry I didn't hear it do it again slow the section is 5 amm to 12 a.m. 5 in the Y 12 okay that's what the
ordinance says okay and also planner will be talking about this later maybe not tonight later but it's the subsequent hearing but this isn't the use that they're proposing does not need a use variance it needs a D3 conditional use variance because they don't comply with certain ordinance requirements and I think we should also establish that and put that on the table
what are the ordinance deviations that you need the D3 variances for and maybe we'll ask one of our planners to jump in if I believe Jessica has in her report I've got a through L I think Jessica yours but I'll let
you so Jessica's report starting on page 11 and just for the record we're talking about Jessica's report dated January 2 2025 that was the latest update correct and starting on page 11 she has the general standards for conditional uses and then she goes [Music] into
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bond for Taylor what my audio yes okay let me back out the whole thing and come back in or
watch no problem thank you for
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[Music] now can you hear me now hey
folks hello hello hello okay Jim can you hear us now I can hear you guys now can you hear me yes we can okay we're good thanks Jim so than working order ordinance section 29644 restricts the hours of operation on a B2 zoned lot where it AB buts a residential lot to between 5:00 a.m. and
12: midnight they so far based on the testimony they fit within those hours but wear wearing my Swami hat yes yes I was gonna ask he was gonna ask I'll tell you what he's gonna ask he's going to ask even though you satisfy the ordinance and even though you do not require a setback variance in the rear do you think or would you be willing to restrict the parts deliveries since beans also owns the part delivery
outfit to working hours and not after 8:00 pm that would be very helpful wait wait wait that's that was his question my question that's what he was gonna ask you got okay so I can let him answer first then yeah that the testimony up until this point was that we owned the parts facility and typically it's done after hours right so we end at eight so now the question is Mr Giani can we
arrange for parts deliveries to be done during operating hours which would be 7 in the morning to 8 o' that wouldn't be a problem okay okay thank you good thank you okay is that the only standard we wanted to go through at this point unless Jessica thinks there should be there's something else that's very important no I think your engineer and plan can address those perfect great I was just trying to ascertain did you need to sit
back you know varius in the rear where the people were and she was like No And I I I know my again I I know their Tendencies and I was figuring that was his question and it was and you I think you're satisfied now right yes absolutely timing of that was perfect so I I appreciate the help um okay so I think that handles all of the deliveries that we were discussing um a couple other things had come up during the review letters um let's talk
about uh the staging areas for receipt of new vehicles where does that occur on the on the new vehicles come off the truck and get moved to the inventory lot for process okay and then when a customer is coming to pick up a new vehicle uh where do they pick that vehicle up from the manufacturers as of late have been asking us to make sure that they could deliver the vehicle Undercover so the the building itself the store itself will have room to
deliver two vehicles inside in a climate controlled environment with two garage doors that after the uh the buyer receives the car is trained on the car they can drive right out through there so there's no more in the front of the dealership where the doors are open and you're learning about the car and the freeze and weather everything is done inside the shop so both the Toyota building and the Nissan building gym is designed with two and those are on the architectural drawings that uh Jim will present later
on in the presentation that's correct uh and I think you testified that happens for both Toyota and Nissan correct yes it does those architectural drawings you're referring to are the ones that were emailed over this afternoon to the board correct and I have them here as exhibits as well so have any of the board professionals had an opportunity to study those architectural drawings yet no okay that's what I figured I don't think we're going to get to him tonight
my plan was to put him on after the engineer who I think is going to take a while y um okay so that takes care of staging areas for new vehicles um why don't we also discuss there was a question regarding uh in Mr J J's report washing and preparation of new vehicles for display and customer delivery where does that occur uh the way we designed these two build buildings in the Toyota building there'll be um ample amount of wash bays
as we call them to prep cars and get them ready for delivery both at the Nissan store and at the Toyota store so we'll be sharing that service between the two buildings it's all interior correct yes it is okay with obviously appropriate drainage and and Etc to handle uh the washing and the um and the residuals that come off that yes which building will that be in that will be in the Toyota building and that's in the architecturals as well
yes I think that covered that Kelly will cover staging and delivery of the new vehicles and vehicle service areas let's talk a little bit about waste um do you what is your what's the way that you handle uh garbage and recyclables if any at the current location at most of the stores we have a fenced in area where the trash dumpsters are put the dumpsters get changed uh get dumped out any anywhere from two to four
times a week depending on the volume at the store so we have a standard trash bin we'll have a recycled trash bin and then we'll have an area for metal scrap and that will all be in a fenced in area that's not visible until the gates are open for the truck and that's the way it's being handled here as well and that's shown on the site plan correct that's that's the way that we've that's the way we've always been doing it now okay and there's a shielding of those areas that the engineer will be able to
testify to yeah the fence itself has slats in it that prevent you from seeing through but allow the wind to go through without any problems and you said that's two to four times a week is that a private pickup yes it is and that's of everything trash recyclables and metal and scrap metal metal and scrap isn't as frequent because we don't build that up as much rotors and things along those lines but and that is if it's scheduled once a week but if it's need it we call them in sooner just so it doesn't pile up did the trash pickup that's in the
rear of the buildings also yes it is and all that is I'm assuming kept in orderly fashion it's not outside of the designated area Mr Beans is very adamant about those dumps they staying clean when when would those take place they usually get empty between 9 and 10 in the morning ah okay because then what they do they give us the opportunity to empty it and then if we have stuff sitting on the side refill it and dump it again the same so okay so you
wouldn't mind that being imposed as a condition that the trash pickup be in the morning between 9 and 10: again since it's in the rear to Shield those residences back there well just I'd like a little bit more of a buffer more than two hours so give it do you what kind of hour can we do it between 8 and 12 sure that's fine y perfect and again we use a private service so we could dictate those hours to them yep
that Jim you wanted to ask a question yeah does a recycling recyclable material include TI got a situation where their tires being piled outside you remember oh tires yeah you want to know about what do you do with the old tires understood the old tires are enclosed in these B in these areas that we have both the dumpsters and all a separate gate that leads to that they're stacked up neatly and then once a week Tire uh tire
guy comes and takes them actually for free so there is that your normal practice now throughout all the you go around and look for it that's what we see okay that you do have that in uh the spot now correct yeah anything else you have to say with regard to uh trash pickup no I think we covered it as I said you know we don't allow it to get outside the
building okay Jim when you ask a question you have to stay right in front of that microphone on your laptop and just keep on talking no you when you pull back your head it like stops well I I wasn't asking I just said good happy with their response oh okay he said okay thank you okay thank you okay and if there's any necessary
amending of the plans to Better Label these areas and the way that these things are going to be handled you'd be willing to amend the plans to do that obviously as any condition no problem okay um just a couple more things in the board engineer Landscape Architects review letter uh the last one dated January 23rd uh there were a number of comments regarding Landscaping correct yes there were okay and our engineer is going to test ify with regard to uh responses to those questions is that
correct yes and you are willing to comply with the responses that the engineer is going to testify to we have no problem complying with anything he testifies to okay one of the comments that he's going to make is with regard to the request to install an irrigation system along Route 202 okay what item is that in his report so that is I'm sorry I didn't label it um 55
55 and in that number 55 is asked for us to install a just get the exact language we recommend that an irrigation system be installed along the tracks US Route 202 Frontage and at high visibility locations within the site um does the the fiend company install irrigation systems uh no we've never
installed landscape irrigation systems in any of the facilities and do you have a practice for maintaining and replacing Landscaping yes we do we we hire landscape landscapers and guys that will mow the lawn and take care of the shrubs and and the trees uh on a new building we will plant them for the specification with the gator bags and all those things and we'll keep after them going forward um but we've never installed Irrigation
in any of the buildings and have you had any problems with maintaining the aesthetic look or the um the healthiness of the Landscaping in your other locations no no we haven't we've U done a real good job of keeping things watered well until they're rooted and also germinating and from that point they seem to do very well and if one of them died and needed to be replaced or a number of them died and needed to be replaced would you replace them without a doubt that would be so I I do have a clarifying question I understand about
landscape how about the irrigation system do you have any experience of maintaining that I I don't have any experience maintaining it at the beans organization I have a I have an irrigation system at my home and I understand what you're saying as far as blowing out all the solenoid valves and all those things it it is it's it can be done but it has to be managed very well and so you guys will well we're we're asking that we uh are not imposed upon to put a irrigation
system in in other words they're they're bringing up item 55 is something they don't want to do he's explained that they don't have Irrigation in any of their other facilities that's that's what he's saying and any of your other facilities located in a large area select fill with red Shale soil with not very good soil beneath it I don't know experence all all I could say is if
they are uh everything is flourishing and doing very well um Fred is very much on top of landscaping throughout all the buildings and we do a lot of we do a lot of maintenance on this you're using landscape but I'm making a distinction between that and an irrigation system so that's why the question well the reason we don't need the irrigation system is the landscapers do such a good job of keep things on a spot well how how often do they uh you say you got Gator bags
how often do they check them and how often do they water them because that's that's a pretty labor intensive you know way to do it I mean well that's only for the that's only for the new planting we just finished the Volkswagen building uh last summer uh in Doylestown and there were hundreds of pieces of landscaping there trees and shrubs and everything else and uh we made sure that those Gator bags were filled with a water truck did that and made sure that they were filled until the trees were well rooted into the fall yeah because I mean
it takes at least a year for that to happen right and and we you know this past summer we had temperatures up in 100 degrees for like a week and established material was dying so I you know and we were at a disadvantage also because our townships in in Doylestown and Langhorn imposed no watering so even though those plant were put in but we didn't have that out here we had plenty of water well that that's that's much that's much better for us then we'll use that water
when we say we have plenty of water meaning it wasn't raining a lot it was also dry but if you had an irrigation system your Landscaping was okay that's what that's what he's saying I what's the op you know opposition to putting in a drip irrigation system I mean it's very efficient it gets underneath the mulch so instead of just watering you know the the mulch layer it gets into the roots um think I think that understanding where you're coming from we could certainly go back and discuss it I think that what we wanted to
present to the board was that we have not had it at all these other facilities he very dedicated to make why don't you go back and discuss it we've and bonding can also be an option as well that's just something I wanted right I understand but if they're more interested no one's interested in collecting someone's Bond I I hear you they're interested in having flourishing landscaping and and it's been more common practice that we request irrigation okay and the results just
speak for themselves I mean we we typically required for all you don't want to look like the Flemington Circle side exactly what what's the cost on that I'm just curious what would that ask them what would be the cost for an irrigation system with the drip irrigation system it would be depending on the areas we put in I'd have to get it priced we'll go back and look into that yeah certainly will understanding where you're coming from but I would also I'd also like to note too that we're we're currently operating the four buildings
in the township the the Toyota building the Nissan building Carstar and Hyundai and if you drive by and look at those properties without irrigation they're very they're very well-maintained right but they're long established planting beds with the exception of the Hyundai store which had some new plantings with the please look at it we'll look at uh
okay okay I think that's all questions I have so I have some operational related questions um could you please uh share with me how in the board how many um display vehicle spaces do you have at your current facilities how many um designated spaces for display facilities as far as the exact number we we use what we call the front line that will face that will face the uh the
main road and that front line is filled with our display Vehicles there and that varies per as many as there could be I probably should clarify myself vehicles that are parked on the site as part of your storage which includes I guess from your term the display Vehicles how many spaces do you have at your current two dealerships can I make a suggestion can you flip the sheet 37 because that shows the parking configuration something in
green something exting I know that I'm asking at his ex as you want to know what the existing existing facility the proposed facility he's proposing 200 I wasn't following you now I am okay so I don't know the exact I don't know the exact we'll get that number for you so so current number I just want to make sure I get exactly what you're looking for uh the number of designated display vehicle parking right so it would exclude employee parking customer parking and all those spaces I'm sorry I think
what is asking for inventory parking inventory parking yeah including display ah yeah okay which would exclude any service parking right so no employees no service um no customers correct everything else for the current Toyota for the current yep and then um at their existing facilities how many repair Bays do you current
have so I right we'll get you that information okay and then a third thing kind of related to operational is within the storage display areas what's the longest run of stacked vehicles that you have you mean Bumper to Bumper currently that's that's that's part that way according to your site plan because I have a feeling there's some that
are parked that may not be according to site plan so on your site plan you're proposing 13 like five like five deep sa um even longer inventory right you're talking stack yes so it looks like five is is what you had to stacking and I guess ask is that something that you do is that the ex she wants to know what do you do on the existing right because I believe that doesn't comply with our ordinance well that's one of the areas
of relief they need which is a D3 variance yep because of the 29615 probably B it's probably a design standard so I'd appreciate that information I think it can make us a evaluate them what current versus what you're proposing on the new site we'll get that back to thank you do you want to wait to hear about this at the next hearing session
or do you want them to submit something in writing so you can see it ahead of time I think that would probably spoot things along oh absolutely to the extent that we can get answers um and provide them in writing with attachments we'll certainly do that okay and if it's coming from this witness who's a fact witness can it come on your letterhead yes not the engineers it will be easier to uh 100% yeah oh I'm sorry one last thing um in your testimony you said that you currently at
your current facility you have 46 employees um sales service and you know kind of all all around I guess I'd like a little more clarity because when I look at how many employees do you anticipate having at the new facility or was I mishearing or wrote it down wrong that it's for 46 at your current facility facility currently we have 46 employees at the current
Hyundai store okay but with proposed and proposed be but you're going to be increasing the number of Bays substantially wouldn't that dictate more employees well there's a lot of wash bays that are included in that bay count car wash bay and not mechanic Baye okay so and each Bay is not assigned to a single mechanic also you know many sometimes there's many bays assigned to
one mechanic and get daily basis depending on what they're working on so we we think that that number is a good employee number going forward to the new store both dealerships combin yes not combined separate 46 46 46 46 yes couple questions um the new facilities you'll serve as hybrids and electric cars yes we will
and is there any special equipment that is different or that for those for that service well there's you know we're going to we'll designate in those in those buildings when the time comes with Jimmy with the architecture we'll designate EV Bays we have certain Jigs and tools that we have to buy from the manufacturer for remov all the battery we'll have a battery storage area where it will go and the proper um equip that the techs need to use while working around those cars they will have as we do now special gloves special Shields
garments things along those lines so we will follow all the manufacturer as well as any code uh any codes that pertain to EV Chargers or usage in the car batteries Etc and Jeff we don't have anything around EV battery storage or anything like that that we need to be concerned with ordinances no okay um I want to go back to the question of um the size
um so if I did I did some research and I'm not saying I'm an expert by by all means but I'm just confused um car sales for the last seven or eight years have gone down correct as far as the numbers on revenue and those kind of things I'm not very well versed to answer that okay because if you look at it 2015 was the peak and ever since then Car Sales have gone down leases is are in half and I'm I'm just curious is do
you need the size buildings that you are proposing you you have to reach a critical mass to be able for the dealership to be profitable and you have to be able to do a number of service visits and and oil changes and all those things have to be taken into account when you're designing the building you would think that you wouldn't even need a building with the way internet sales are but I you know I service you know I go around to many of our buildings you
know I I oversee over 40 stores and buildings in our portfolio and I'm amazed and I and I tell Cara this and I tell Jim this too I'm amazed when I come out of my office and walk down into the showroom of the Ford Store how many people are in there buying cars and I go up to the Lincoln store there's a a flurry of activity around car buying that I'm seeing now I'm no expert and I can't tell you you know how much more it is than 2015 Etc but I do know that our lots are full with inventory and we're
selling cars at all the dealerships now there's none of dealership are strong do you have a turnover rate of cars or of do you have like you turn over the cars I could find that out for you I don't know that but I could find that out I think that would help I I don't understand my concern is that the Landscaping uh that we're we're losing trees and we're not putting in Islands if I read it correctly I'm just concerned can we get rid of if we can cut down the size of the building or the number of parking spots can we keep the
the canopy trees that we're losing um that that's where my concern is and we can look into that because we do meet the parking requirements so if there's some you mean the parking requirements she saying how about the Landscaping in the parking area requirements I understand what I was getting at is since we meet the parking requirements if there is a preference to maybe not me the parking requirements and impose some additional Landscaping just a clarification your the number of display
spaces is totally discretionary on your part there's nothing in the ordinance that requires that understood Absolut so that's more than half of your parking on your site again so we'll we can look at the parking requirements versus the discretionary items and maybe have some discussion as to a tradeoff you know if it's you know more preferable for a parking variant as opposed to a landscape design waiver and
and you know sorry just clarify you don't need a variance for parking no what she's saying is is do a tradeoff switch put in the Landscaping get a parking get the variant for parking you don't need a parking variant she's saying that board member Drews is saying don't lessen the number of employee parking spaces lessen the number of inventory parking right right parking parking space would not need requirement for the number of inventory spaces they can
eliminate inventory spaces they don't need right right right right so that's I just want to get record correct you don't yeah so okay maybe I'm misunderstanding when I'm looking at our required versus provided no she's not she's not talking about required she's talking about providing and Jay wants to see just just have your engineer take a look at the the parking chart and the plan because it's based on 15 employees per dealership building not
46 the only the only thing that I would like to add to the employee count is that's total payroll so when we talk 46 people we take talk 46 people are gonna be paid from Toyota right but but they asked you before what's the maximum number of employees you'd have on site at any one time you said conceivably it could be 46 46 well if that's the maximum number you could have on site at any one time then Jay's right the parking calculation for employees is wrong and we were we realized that because we just realized the number so
our engineer was prepared to talk about that so we're we're right there I do though want to make sure I understand from you know your perspective what's required versus discretionary and what we have to play with and what we don't yeah I think one maybe one of the spots you want to look at is that that you're talking about the stacking in the rear it backs up to the residential area the islands you got in there are really kind of small so you're not really going to get any good you know screening or buffering in that area so if you
could expand that area alone the perimeter TR ride enough room for some evergreen trees and things like that I think would be a big help so the other question so I want to go back to what I was referring to is on Jeff's report number 38 where it talks about uh waivers requested for Section 296 75s for tree canopy disturbance of 68% where 68.5% where 55 is the maximum
allowed disturbance so you're building the site you're going to just you're going to wipe out a lot more than we were hoping um we've had some experience recently with another site so it's kind of front and center so yeah I don't know you're talking yeah exactly um so again um even like um we're thinking if you wipe out the last row of the inventory and put trees or you don't have to if you wipe out the last row of the inventory and you don't
have to take out more trees again just some put it this way what the chair is saying the board members antennas are up now for waiver requests or exceptions from 29675 S2 yep because they feel like they got burned and they don't want to get burned again and they want to see if you can keep it at 55% and not seek any ception that's what that's what she's asking and to give you some information that happened so you understand where
we're coming from um what happened was is they they took out trees that are extremely old and then impacted the site view from other from the residents uh further down so what we thought was going to work is now 81 trees at 100 feet tall are gone so we're not we're not saying we're just saying trees are important understood so we understand we'll be sensitive to that issue and just to add one more thing that would be
the major concern from the neighbors if you're able to protect that that's only going to help the application one of since uh chairperson mentioned about the dealers I I read a little bit about future dealerships or new dealerships and we talked about internet sale and I'm I'm not surpris what you were saying about critical mass but I do see Trend just foot for thought of reduced showroom space with the new types of dealerships
again I'm not an expert but I was concerned in a very similar way so something for you guys to think about and that way you can reduce the size with the buildings still do you do you have uh do you have internet sales do you have people who will go on the internet okay so if you if I go on the internet and I say okay I like this Toyota for and I I go ahead I can order it there and then how do I get it I go to the I
go to the dealership and it's there or we'll deliver to you when it comes in yeah that's why the the showroom size is getting yeah no no and that's what I was kind of asking is does Fred Beans have a business model where he has um a large site or a small site and thus you know we again we did this with another applicant and they were like no the business model is the business model is the business model so we need these 19
variances so that's all I'm saying is if if there's a business model that Fred Beans will consider um we just want to make it known that we're cons we're bringing it up you know the only concern the only concern that we have is that just as we come in on the site development and the Land Development that we're doing tonight and asking for some variances the manufacturers are extremely strict on following as much as if we could fit 25 Bays but the Mandate is 26 we have to fight for a variance to
get build a building with 25 Bay versus the 26 we just lost a battle with Hyundai on that where we had to add an extra Bay just to meet their requirement so some of it isn't dictated by Fred more of it is dictated by the manufacturer saying but they're not asking you to cut down the number of service Bays they're asking you to take a look at this at the showroom well this all can yeah some things are from the manufacturer yeah and what I can explain to this board and if some of you recall
this is something we were before you on the site correct we make the ask that is our requirement to make the ask Y and what this board decides conditions upon allows is what this board decides conditions upon and allows so but Our obligation is to make the ask so yeah I mean a corporation can ask what they want but they don't they're not here right and does it fit for this town
you know example which we used in that other case was McDonald's right the golden arches well the McDonald's and Westfield yeah yeah way there's no M there's no golden arches Chester doesn't even look like a m doesn't even look like a McDonald's if they want to be somewhere bad enough yeah the Burger King yeah right on in Chester yeah is a house it's a house doesn't look like a Duncan if if one of these big corporations
wants to be in your place bad enough right all of a sudden you get approval but I guess what I'm getting at is but the board the board has to they won't do it unless it's if they see it in a board correct resolution with a condition yeah all of a sudden they'll Grant a waiver correct yes that's exact that's exactly what I'm getting at yeah if you ask them to ask the answer will be no if you impose
it 95% chance it'll be yes correct thank you um okay now I don't know where I am um all right so that was 55 we're focusing on we hear you with regard to Landscaping we'll even uh we can provide some information regarding our analysis that I know Fred always does before he looks at uh you know Trends and other sites so we can come prepared with that information as well um yeah I think that was all the
questions I have no Cara the only other thing I would say is that I didn't see in any of the reports is at some point I think we should have um a site view of where the houses are versus where sight line drawing sight line drawing to the and so that it doesn't become an issue the the viewing height unlike if you're doing it from the street it's three feet from sitting down in your car it should be 5 feet person
standing in their backyard or looking out their first floor window you do the site because I got I got the feeling and I can't tell I thought the site was down from the properties but I can't tell I it might be down now but after they bring in all the F it's going to be up that'll be a separate issue for the engineer all right but what you're what you're getting at is we want it from the
first floor window right not not not three feet off the ground from the first from a typical first floor window because if you don't do that you're going to bring it in and you're going to waste time and we end up having to do that a perspective I'm also very interested in is given the difference of elevation from the high from Route 202 to the display areas and the lights I I have some real concerns because there's there's 20 it's roughly
20 feet higher plus a pole so that's I'm just envisioning going down 202 and that light 40 feet in the air it's going to be in my eyes even if it's shielded so I have some real concerns about that so if there's be some light light test or something or something that can give you a better feel for that I was looking at the sheet and I was wer worried about the residents behind yes that's that's a whole other issue for the residents and
the but I never thought of 202 okay so I'm asking I'm asking the board engineering expert do do you guys need something from them to look at that concern or can you look at that concern without having something submitted from them think there was something in your report I'm hearing we have a spill over on the 202 shown on the plans well it's not it's not get right she's saying if you're driving by can will it be distracting because you could look up and see a light see the
lights because it's it's not there is technically no SP the foot candles are within the standard but because that thing's y0 is it gonna be a beacon that's gonna draw your attention right that's whatare it's moreare so I mean Kelly such has done these sight line drawings before so so do one in the front but the one in the front is a whole different purpose right it is that one is Taken 3 ft off the road a driver's eyes but that
is a sight line to see what part if any of the light fixture would someone see that's what she's asking about right that what you're asking about yes and the glare so that might impact driving up and down the lights stay on all all the time no they don't I think we we tapered them back to almost 20% overnight just so the security cameras have enough Vision to see anybody on the okay that's the only reason so maybe on that thing add is is that a note somewhere in these documents or is this
just see that you're telling us now I don't remember about scaling back the lights you what sheet on the plan 16 or 37 on the top right corner does that and that says that they will be taking down the 20% let's take a look we're going to take a look right now but they they yeah Kelly can you tell us what note it is number two say says shall be on a timer and on from
[Music] town okay so it percent it doesn't say a percentage they're dim now at the at the location you're at now correct the the location as far as Toyota and Nissan I'm not sure I know that Hyundai and Carstar are they dim them after hours that I mean you're not it's not like it's no it's not you don't drive by so that you would agree to dim them to the 20% that
you've recommend if that's number 20 car put that in your letter and reference note number two on sheet 16 to be modified yeah you're saying 20 to 25% is normal I'm pretty sure that's what we had one there okay put them whatever it is let them put it in Cara's letter so you can see what they're saying then you'll ask your engineering expert his opinion about it if he's happy when he comes back from his trip
right I'll tex you that either way it's gonna be getting it on with the a [Laughter] Swifty all right any other questions I just want to make a note that um I
don't know if the one gentleman is from the public oh no he's with our NG office just want to make a note that the uh there's no one but but to be fair about this there were about five or six people there were four well I saw two okay there were three people according to our board secretary and they left when we started to have the computer problem yes you're correct so they may have figured that we weren't going to be able to fix it and get back on
okay okay y so you're saying the ca might have sa the computer I actually thought it was the other way around to be quite honest uh okay so 921 we have our engineer um I think we all know what he's going to testify to um what is I have a formality question since those neighbors left because of a reason well
I I already spoke to them they were fine and they said because if I'm able to get the recording back up that they will just listen to the YouTube recording and then they would be informed by me when the applications carried to my question is not that my question is next time when we're here if they do have question for this witness do we allow it or not you have to allow it because he's not done testifying the municipal land juice law says every witness has to be subject to cross-examination they don't they're
not subject to cross examination until they finish their direct he's coming back because there's a bunch of information you asked him for car's going to send it in ahead of time but it's all going to be subject to cross examination of be prepared for yeah sure yeah thank you okay and the board has to decide do you want to start the engineer knowing that you're going to knock off at 10:00 or just knock off now and have the engineers start clean at the continued hearing no I think we should give we have a half hour I think we should give
them the opportunity okay and and maybe I mean we again know his normal course of testimony if there's something specific this is one thing all that something specific that you know you've seen and you'd like us to have looked at more fully for the next yearing that we'd appreciate so we could be prepared for that that might help speed things up a little bit all right I'm already SW yes yes you are okay uh Mr uch can you please state your name and qualifications for the board Kelly uch o philosophy Su
CH uh I have a Bachelor of Science and civil engineering from Virginia Tech I graduated in 2012 uh I've been practicing uh civil engineering uh with a focus on site plan site design subdivisions in the state of New Jersey since 2012 I have a professional engineer license in the state of New Jersey it's in good standing and has been since 2018 I'm also a professional planner in
the state of New Jersey since 20122 also in good standing and then I also have engineering licenses in Pennsylvania New York and Florida uh and then I've testified before various land use boards zoning boards planning boards throughout the state also in front of this board okay anyone have questions okay we'll accept them as an expert thank you very much um I do have uh an exhibit that he's going to use initially um it's a two-page exhibit you could
just reference what that is the title the date um and indicate whether or not you prepared it and then I'll hand it is this going to be what some of the stuff that was emailed in this afternoon yes I have full okay uh so it's a two sheet exhibit that show aerial conditions of the site can we do this however you want yeah let's have the existing site conditions
exhibit would be marked as exhibit A1 and the proposed site conditions exhibit would be marked as exhibit A2 and hold it hold it hold it if you mark that big one the big one goes in did you say you have here I have no no Kelly listen to me the big one is going to be a demonstrative exhibit we're going to keep in the board file is 8 and 12 by 17 unless you guys want a big one in the board
file I think it's easier to see if somebody wants it okay then Mark the big one A1 thank you one says existing one says proposed you guys got to share them with us that's why they gave you extras no got so these are these are stapled but it doesn't matter the existing site conditions Mark as A1 the proposed site
conditions exhibit Mark as A2 okay can you just describe the location of the property and the properties and the existing conditions so the subject properties as Miss kazinski previously noted it's block 7223 and it's Lots 31 and 31.0 uh lot lot 31 has 11.83 acres and lot 31.0 has
12.78 78 Acres uh and both properties are located within the B2 commercial Zone uh and on that exhibit that's in front of you uh the Eastern property or the property to the right as it reads on the plan is SE uh 31 lot 31 and the the lot on the left or the Western portion of the property is lot 31.0 uh as you can see on that existing conditions aial uh the property is
surrounded um to the north by Route 202 and then beyond that is the Aldi and Kohl's uh shopping center uh to the east by the Vorhees Corner Vet Clinic as well as the Flemington vet hospital uh to the South by uh uh uh Heritage Court and Lexington Circle and to the west by Normandy court
and both of those are part of the Concord Concord Ridge Community okay quick question has has this been color rendered at all or is the aerial the actual colors and then you just added the lot lines on top uh we added the lot lines and then some of the existing features and some of the uh exist ing easements which I'll get into our color just to bring them to attention Okay but not the like the roof colors the grass
colors the Shrubbery colors that's all of the existing property surrounding that has not been touched from the aerial image um so both both Lots 31 and 31.0 one are currently undeveloped uh as you can see from the aerial there is some significant um tree cover of matern mature tree canopy as the uh ordinance defines um and on lot 31 you can see
there is an area within the center of the property that was previously cleared um of those trees and there's a little Access Road currently going up the center of the property to that clearing area uh on the plan to the South or to the uh bottom I'll call it of the property uh there is an existing 100t wide jcpnl easement and those yellow lines on the plan running through are
the overhead lines that are within that 100 foot wide easement and that goes through both properties 31 and 31.0 uh and that easement uh also has a clearing to maintain those overhead wires and avoid any obstructions with the wires through there further to the south on that particular portion there some lines that are colored uh red and yellow or red and orange and those are
uh stream buffers and repairing zones associated with a regulated ditch that is right along the southern property boundry um so there is a regulated area within that southern portion of the property uh to the north of the property bisecting or going through 3 1.01 and crossing a corner of 31 is another regulated ditch with Associated reparan
zones and stream buffers for the township ordinance and the state regulations uh at that location in the front there is a 100 foot wide uh cross access easement and it's dashed in a uh black line on the plan and that's the location that uh Miss kazinski previously noted as the area that the dot as part of the subdivision
of the two properties noted as the location where any driveway I see that for the two properties can you guys point that out to at least our table and then bring the exhibit in front of all the board members and point that out so there's a it's that black rectangular thing with the dots yes the dashes the dashes anyone want to see that we see yeah can you bring that just take the big exhibit up to the board and point
out it's wait what you okay and that will probably once we get to 82 even if you want I understand but there's going to be some other questions on a too sure okay I was in the middle okay the general site topography I don't show Contours on this drawing but the general site
topography uh there's a high point or Ridge that runs through the the center of both 31 and 31.0 one that generally coincides with where that clearing is on lot 31 and off of that Ridge line there's a distinct breake and drainage that some of the water goes to that regulated ditch that I previously mentioned on the south or the southern border of the property and the remaining portion goes along to the northern uh portion of the property and that other ditch that I previously noted so
basically that that clearing on uh the center of lot 31 is a high point of the property and everything else kind of shs off in either direction from there uh and then I also included on this image uh these gray hatchings or gray um images and those are representative of the regulated slopes in accordance with the township ordinance uh so you can see there's a
portion of regulated slope on the Northern boundary right along the edge of Route 202 which uh from the way I see it is that was probably man authored or Man created when they cut in Route 202 at that at that portion um and these are the light gray areas correct correct they look a little like a parallelograms two of them okay um and
then there is a a larger gray piece on the western portion of lot 31 right at the edge of the clearing that's shown in the aerial and I also believe that that's a a man altered or Southwest the southerly Southwest portion of this of what 31 31 correct and I I again I believe that's man altered that happened as part of that clearing of that area kind of moving soil and altering what
was the clearing done on what was the purpose of the clearing on lot 31 I I don't know what it was done and when it was done but it was it was cleared at one point in time um but then I believe the remaining portions of the regulated slopes are natural or or pretty much unaltered I assume that your assumption is because the other two are look like a parallelogram they're very defined and the other one looks like a for lack of a better word a blotch correct and the the
other ones generally follow the natural features associated with the ditch and the Stream So they would be kind of naturally occurring objects whereas the one that follows the road it follows the road uh and the one that's kind of next to the edge of the clearing it's next to the edge of the clearing so that generally kind of explains the existing conditions as shown here as shown on exhibit A1 right shown on exhibit A1 before you turn the page could you provide some context
around the existing drainage easement and the foot y granter exception strip sure so the the existing drainage easements on the Eastern and Southern portion of lot 31 were filed as part of a previous site plan application that was approved for the site but never ultimately constructed and it was associated with a I believe it was a
supermarket but it was some type of retail facility and and just just to clarify that was for lot 30 lot 31 not 31 correct not okay um and then the conservation easement in the rear of that encompasses where those regulated areas that we were previously discussing so those conservation easements were filed as part of that um part of that site plan approval to not touch the regulated
areas and the 40 foot strip exception agreement that I I don't know the um General I don't I I don't know the I don't know where that originated but it's an easan area where nothing can be built and there's an agreement between the two neighboring properties along the eastern boundary and this so has the language for that
exception agreement been provided to our attorney to look at well the bottom line is is anything proposed to be constructed in that stripped that existing 40 stripped exception uh as part of our application no so not even any land grading or clearing not as part of our application so we don't have to worry about it if they're not doing anything in there A2
what is that you're putting up on the board uh this is sheet seven of 37 of the plan set un board so it's last dated 117
[Music] uh so as a results of this proposed development there is going to be tree clearing and tree removal uh and what this plan is depicting is the limits of where that tree removal is proposed uh so the the
hatching or the crosshatch shown on this plan are the limits of the existing canopy that would be removed so there's existing canopy along the uh eastern boundary that I think Miss Drew was actually just speaking to that is being remained undisturbed untouched and is forested and would remain forested and then again there's an area along the southern boundary that is along the regulated ditch that is not being
proposed to be disturbed and is also forested and would remain you're saying is everything within the cross-hatched areas that would constitute the 68.5% tree canopy disturbance uh I for lot 31 I have is 64.2% so you're also proposing tree disturbance unlock 3 1.01 correct and
that much tree disturbance to put in a little stinky oh that's the cross that's the access correct and there's some grading involved yeah yeah strike the word stinky from the record just to be clear if you look at the area where the conserv easement is on the right hand the existing conservation easement there is some proposed clearing shown on the plan for that
area let's just make sure we know which one we're talking about so in the South Side there's a little bump yeah so if you limited disturbances put it this way if there's any disturbance proposed within a conservation easement they're going to have to go to the township committee to get relief from
that well still listen it doesn't matter if if it's a drainage easement to the township or a conservation eement to the township you're going to have to go to the township committee to get permission correct thank you can I ask a quick question on a to why are there either structures or gray areas indicated on
lot 3 31.0 one other than the access road or drive yeah so that looks like like proposing warehouses that's what that's what what is that it's we are showing that this property uh could potentially be developed but that's not part of this current application so why do you have it on there because we want to show that the the roadway or the the cross access driveway that's coming in off of 202 will not only serve the application
that's before you but will serve lot 31.0 one in any future application or on that it looks like you have a fairly good idea of what that application is going to look like uh yeah I mean I have a call up specifically on the the drawing that says potential future development not subject to I understand but where did you get the details to know where the parking areas were and where the two buildings are uh there was a previous application before this board
with that layout that never got approved that I'm aware of okay so where did I pick up 68.5% Jeff's letter huh Jeff's letter I think number Okay so Let's find let's find out exactly what the I know 55% is the maximum allowed item 38 Jeff's letter 38 on
Jeff's letter yeah for Jeff where did you get that 68.5 he says it's 64. what 64.2% on lot 31 so the rest of it is on lot is the 68.5% include lot 31.0 then no there's a separate number for 31.0 because it's a separate lot yeah so ask you this what is the tree canopy clearing on lot 31.0 one if it includes the proposed future development and not
just the access row well well I don't have that because I don't know what the future development ultimately will be well it looks like you have a pretty decent idea based on the last application we weren't cour hasn't approved it it isn't I thought I saw a number somewhere I thought I saw a number somewhere with the my suggestion is to resubmit do another you know an A3 to replace A2 and take
off that or if you're going to put it on then show what type of relief it would need that that's just for yeah that's what I think he's looking for no he's asking what the entire development mature canopy removal would be I'm I'm asking if he's showing something on A2 on lot 31.0 one I'm just curious I mean it looks like cuz we've got the percentage just for the roadway I thought that's what you were asking no not okay okay I'm
sorry where's I mean we could easily just take that out I think that was more just for help to be helpful but why don't you take that out give us an exhibit A3 for next time [Music] Y and we just have to nail down where's where on the documents does it show 64.2 one and how did you calculate like that uh it is shown on sheet seven uh it is there are notes on the right lower right hand portion of
the feet and it's based on the total mature CH on the property that would be your existing we're going to ask the board's landscape expert just between now and whenever is yeah try to check them and check that figure and Je is there an issue of the lot area with the route 202 way away versus that's true my suggestion instead of
getting bogged down in this yeah but that's wasn't that one of your points in your review letter that the right away for 202 needs to be removed from the net lot area maybe that she's saying maybe that that could result in 68.5% but don't waste the time right now of doing it let him keep on going but both you the applicant should check into that and the landscape expert Jeff to
check into that thank you very much can you clarify what you're talking about there because the right of way of 202 is not being counted in our calculations that was just the question I know Jeff posed because it our ordinance removes roadways and road right aways from isn't it a calculation so right what I'm saying is if you're saying yeah the rate of way of route 202
is not included in our lot area or our calculation of the tree canopy area so we need to clear up where ours is and we'll make sure that that RightWay is not included we don't think it is but we'll make sure but it's I think it says all road rways right look at the definition just to yeah well no I'm still I'm still on
sheet seven oh okay sheet s lot 31.0 as part of this development which is strictly on lot 31.0 which I'll get into proposed conditions is really only proposing the driveway and the covert to get into the two properties the mature canopy removal associated with that is 7.2% of what exists on lot 31.0 all right now we can move
on okay so this sheet is titled proposed site conditions exhibit uh it's dated today which is February 6 2025 uh and it was prepared by my office uh akrf uh so the image before you uh shows
the same aerial image that was previously shown for the existing conditions aerial with the proposed development uh overlaid on top of it in a bright color um the okay [Laughter] sure the proposed develop velopment on lot 31 uh includes two car dealerships a Toyota dealership which is on the left hand side or the Western portion of D
she and a Nissan dealership which is on the right hand or Eastern portion of the seat uh of the sheet uh the Toyota building has a footprint area of 33,2 187 Square ft uh and as currently proposed the showroom of that would be 5,1 159 Square ft and that building currently is proposed with 30 service BS uh the Nissan building is proposed at
23,6 square fet of footprint area uh and of that is 4,363 is showroom area and then that building has 13 service Bay proposed just to Circle back to uh Mr gian's testimony the Third a part of the 30 service Bays noted for the Toyota are wash bays correct that's my understanding correct okay and this is smaller than
the current one Toyota is smaller's not right right that was you're talking about Toyota when you said 30 correct yes so that's smaller than what you have right now yes that the applicant has currently correct so te on so technically even well 30 Bay whatever the the building itself is smaller than what you currently have on 31 that's my or2 whatever that's my understanding okay
and we're going to provide I think there was a question I'm not sure if M Dre or um schaer uh the total or actually job total square footage we're to provide that okay can can I no you can't thank you though Jim uh so for the proposed building setbacks uh the Toyota structure building on the left of the pl here the front yard setback from Route 202 is 117 ft and point or
117.5 six ft the sidey yard to the West which is the common boundary with lot 3.01 is 108.3 3 ft and to the rear yard uh so next to the Concord Ridge Community is 330 ft uh 33.414940
3 ft and all of those setbacks for the those main structures comply with the setback ordinances or the bulk bulk
ordinances for the B2 Zone just a quicky enough to throw you off we figured out where jet 68.5 oh go ahead that's it so it's been updated since the original got [Music]
it uh the two building Heights uh the Toyota building is proposed at 30 feet per the ordinance definition and the Nissan building is proposed at 28.07 ft per the ordinance definition and both comply with the 35 ft limit within the Zone uh floor area ratio the Toyota floor area is total floor area is proposed at 35,7 40 square ft and the Nissan floor
area is proposed at 25,253 Square ft uh and then that results in a floor area ratio on the property of 16.71% which is well under the 25% maximum within the zone uh so as I've alluded to and Miss kazinski has alluded to the proposed
dealership structures will be accessed via a driveway being proposed on lot 31.0 one that driveway is 30 feet wide and will serve this development and any future development on lot 31.1 uh the driveway will um require is a DOT permit which is currently been filed and is pending uh the traffic engineer can talk more to that at the next hearing when assuming we get to the
traffic engineer at the next hearing um been approved just to quickly clarify that the permit's been issued but he'll give you you know the exact status that yes um and so if not I'll get it to you but no okay I thought it was part of the traffic report but don't worry we'll get it to
you uh part of that driveway proposes a box covert to cross that regulated ditch that I previously noted along the northern portion of lot 31 and lot 31.0 one that box covert is proposed at 53.3 feet from the front yard um but there are some Wing walls that come off of the actual main structure and the wing wall to the front yard is proposed at 25 ft
um and then from the sidey yard since it crosses over lot 31 and into 31.1 the setac is zero or it crosses the lot line associated with that structure Kelly we we we're going to give you five minute warning but there is one question I need to ask you before tonight okay how much time do we before the F minute warning well all so why don't we ask yeah ask the
question that we give her they give them anything okay I have I have a question okay so um looking at here okay there was the access that was going to come out by Clemington vet Y and you're abandoning that we are not abandoning it it is not part of our application other than the fact that we are providing an easement to the township since this is going to be later in my testimony but I'll go through it now you're talking about the master the
proposed master plan Road correct is the master plan Road shown on exhibit 82 uh it is very very light Shadow the trees that's why your trees are set up like that correct and then it goes down Y correct when exhibit GR when you would submit exhibit A3 and you eliminate the proposed potential future development on 31.0 can you use a different color and
put the master put the proposed easement that you're the applicants willing to give for the master plan Road on this so we can see sure make those dashes thick yeah that's fine I can't see that make the dashes thick yeah or do something I that that easement was part and parcel of the prior approval which has since been long abandoned and basically dull and void the easement is still recorded and still exists but the beneficiary of
that e the whoever it is cop you're going to want to get that released and then assuming the board approves this you're going to then record a new right of way e for the master plan road yeah I would say it's I I know it's the seller gave it was the Grand I'm assuming was probably right in town that's what I'm guessing but you got to check that out I will I I I know I have it I just don't have it here with me okay so that's that's one question what
else I don't know if you can answer it okay I'm I'm assuming that this design on this other property which is is just guess work right now would also feed into that traffic that is correct so heart of the master plan Road and again this is within that 2008 master plan within the circulation there is a sketch I'll call it that basically envisions for the township a connection from Rayville Road
and Fleming the burrow of Flemington you submitted that it's this you submitted it to that's directly out of the master plan yes right I have copies for everybody there's a copies so they can take them home it was hard it was hard to figure out what it was why would make this instead of your new exhibit A2 is now going to be exhibit you know why because we're hand it out now so all right so this gray listen and if you are you handing that in black and
white or color black and white black and white I know you're GNA next time you're going to bring a nice color large one like I Pi it for I I knew you want that's brought with me so our understanding of the sketch that was provided in the circulation portion of that master plan in 2008 envisions a connection from Rayville Road to Vorhees Corner Road as
depicted on this image and it goes through the subject property which is lot 31 lot 31.0 one and the neighboring property to the West which is Lock 72.2 3 lot 32 and that is the municipal boundary of Ron Township and Flemington burrow and then you're into Flemington burrow connecting in with the shops at Flemington okay so there's not only is
it well I should say it's envisioned the way we understand it in rared and townships master plan but I don't know if it was ever envisioned within Flemington Burrow's master plan and then and then V Corner Road is a county road so the connection would have to also uh appease the county okay all right thank you and so our our our understanding and what we're doing for the township
is we are giving the township an area on the property via easement that they could come and take in the future and potentially build that road that they've envisioned it's not the actual physical road is not part of this application just an area that the town could potentially take bu potentially take you're giving you're proposing to give them a RightWay easement an easement okay so you you're giving them that eement they if they
want can come and construct the road over the E correct yeah we're not constructing and and and the reason for that the way that Mr drill described it that is why we designed it in such a way where none of the proposed improvements would interfere with that easement area should the township decide to come and use it in the future yeah okay do we want to talk about uh future yeah well just a couple things just real quick
when you come back I'm going to be really interested in learning about the cut fill on the property and if the original calculations that were submitted are still valid and how how you propose that massive amount of Phil export is going to be dealt with and then um also I really am going to have to hear an awful lot about the porous pavement and how you're going to maintain that and do all when you're going to have all those cars parked on it
okay okay you know in the next Mee any other anyone else anyone any of the board professionals no and there's nobody in the public for the record um question so all of this information that you're asking for Cara did you want that the 10 days before or does that not count towards it no it doesn't have to be it does not
have to be 10 days before okay it's up to them the more days in to give it to the board members he'll make less questions presumably at the continue hearing that's going to be up today okay so then the first meeting I can offer you guys is April 3D so it's continued wa wait they they didn't confirm um is the does the board have
any interest in entertaining a special meeting probably not because they meeting twice a month for three years oh my god I've told you both we're like booked till June darn it I I was hoping the technical difficulties might work um that what is the uh the date by which they have to decide this
application Jeffrey can read March 31st so obviously we're GNA an extension I'll put that in that letter John yeah June 30 so unless they tell me differently the hearing in this matter is going to be continued to April 3 2025 without the need for further notice they agree to extend the time within which the board has to decide the application to June 30th
correct correct okay correct okay can I get a motion to adjourn luck