Good evening everybody. Good evening. Don't slide on or off. Just leave it. Hey everybody. Hi.
Hello. Okay. Well, I think we can get started. We have quorum. Just waiting for Carrie. Um S is gone on to bigger and better things. Um and both Sophie and Eddie uh weren't able to make the rescheduling. Oh, it's going to be just the three of us and hopefully the four of us when Carrie arrives, but I think we could get started.
Okay. So, I'm going to make a a motion to call the meeting to order. Do I have a second? Second. Second. Uh, roll call. Kevin here. Um Joan, yes. And Rick Lopez. Yes. Okay. Terms of our um agenda tonight, um we have minutes both from February, which we didn't quite get to last time. Well,
we we wanted some revisions, and last month's March. Uh then we'll have public comment and um and we have two matters before us. Uh the 20 Kov Hill Road matter and that of uh 56 Arcadia Avenue. And we'll have uh administrative hearings for both of those. And we will be taking a vote on both of those. And then we'll wrap up with updates and as usual any final comments. And
um and that's it. Um okay. In terms of the minutes uh for February 12th, um were there any uh Oh, hi Carrie. You're you're muted. Sorry to be late. Thanks. Yep. any um changes, suggestions, edits
uh that anybody saw? No. Good to us. None from me. For me either. Okay. I make a motion to approve the minutes from February 12th. Have a second. Second. Roll call. Carrie, yes. Kevin, yes. Yes. Rick, yes. Okay. And then in terms of the minutes for February, I mean for March 12th, um any edits,
changes? Uh Carrie? Yeah. Um two things. One, I I I didn't get a chance to look. I I thought I wasn't sure S was Well, maybe he was there, but I'm I'm not I I could I just didn't look. And then the other one is safe 2.0 know was referenced twice in the minutes and it should be spelled s a p h e not not like it sounds so so um that was all I saw. Yeah, I think I'm pretty sure S
was there. Um maybe it was Sophie that couldn't be with us. There was there was a note about somebody missing and um Okay. Yeah, but that's Yeah, that's fine. Okay. Well, I'll make a motion to um approve the minutes with the change in the spelling of safe and also um Haley, if you can just double check the recording. Yep. Make sure that that wasn't the case. But um I I think u I think S
was here. Perhaps it was Eddie that wasn't. I I don't remember. Um so that's my motion. Do I have a second? Second. Second. Joan. Second. Roll call. Carrie. Yes. Kevin. Yes. Joan. Yes. And Rick. Yes. Um, okay. In terms of public comment, um, I see a couple, uh, names out there. So, um, I think I saw
Joe Harrington and Peggy Harrington uh, first. Um, Haley, do you want to unmute them? Yep. So, I if it works, I can call them out one at a time. We have somebody else joining also and then I can give them the twominut time frame. Does that work? Yeah, that would be fine. Okay. All right. So, I can start with Joe Harrington. Yeah. Just asked to unmute him. Mr. Harrington. Yes. Hi. Um,
welcome. Thank you for having me. Sure. I guess my video is disabled. That's fine. Not a problem. Okay. And um, can you just give us your address and then you'll have two minutes to make any comment you you would like to for the board. Yeah. My name is Joe Harrington, uh 12 Franklin Terrace here in Reading. And I understand that apparently the turkey feeding problems are going to be discussed tonight. And uh I thanks for um the notification I got on that. Um and I just like to say a couple things. Um I I want to encourage the board uh and and support any efforts they want to
make to help stop the feeding of the wild turkeys. And I also want to plead with anyone um who maybe is listening tonight or not um if they're feeding wild turkeys to please please stop. Um because of the the people feeding the turkeys, we ended up with a large very large concentration of wild turkeys in our neighborhood. Um and at at some point um towards the end of the fall last year uh there were over 40. I swear there must have been 50 on some days. That's a lot of turkeys to be parading through your yard. and they were going to a couple of what I started to call feeding
stations uh in the neighborhood. Um, one of which I believe is going to be discussed tonight. Um, so that massive concentration of turkeys, you know, made for a big problem. Um, but the first thing is beating turkeys is not good for the turkeys, at least according to the Massachusetts Division of Fisheries and Wildlife. So if folks are doing it, um I I think they might want to think about the fact that it's not good for the turkeys. Having unnaturally large concentrations like that, uh helps the spread of the diseases among the birds, uh potentially makes them um a bigger
target uh for predators and I suppose even dogs. Um so I would that's one reason why I I would hope that any of the neighbors my neighbors who are feeding turkeys would stop. Um the other thing is that um in addition to not being good for the turkeys, it's not good for um the neighbors. Um they um you know the turkeys u make a tremendous mess. They roost on roofs, trees. Um there's a mess over people's patios, furniture, swing sets, um you know, you name it. Um and you know,
there's really, you know, once they're in the trees, there's not much you can do about them once they're up there. They're also very ner uh very noisy in the mornings. Uh especially early. You know, they wake up pretty early. Um more than uh I don't have uh school age uh kids here for for the most part, but I have neighbors that do. And um those those kids need as much sleep as they can get. Um they also did actually become quite aggressive. Sorry Joe, your two minutes is up. Thank you. Thanks for the opportunity. Thank you, Joe. Okay, I'll do Peggy Harrington next. Yeah.
Hello. Hi, Miss Harrington. Um, thank you for joining us. Uh, if you um I presume you're connected to Joe Harrington maybe. Um, so you have to give your street address, but uh, go ahead. You have Peggy Harrington, 12 Franklin Terrace. And, um, yeah, we we are pretty connected. Um I'm I guess I didn't realize I would be speaking. I wanted to join in on to see the meeting. However,
um I do um obviously agree with everything Joe says. And at the end he was saying they are becoming very aggressive, the turkeys and uh so when the little kids are out, we've got a four-year-old grandson who's out in the yard and he's got turkeys chasing him. I mean, it's and it's um it's, you know, and it's we try to we try to help them, but it's it's um it's getting to the point where it's it's beyond ridiculous. And the amount of mess our neighbors have a um a swing set and they have um it's it's I mean, they're out there trying to clean it and
the kids can't even use it anymore. So, it's really and you drive by on Van Nordon and they were placing food on the table for the turkeys and um so it's it's and also on um Cubby Hill you could see the that the turkeys were feeding off of a bird feeder that was put very low. So, it's it's not and it's not helping the turkeys. So, if um any help that we can get to take care of this uh we would really appreciate it. Thank you very much. Thank you for joining us. All right,
I'll do Dana next. Dana, uh, did you want to speak? I'll unmute her and or Yes. Hello. Yes. Hi. Thank you for joining us. Yeah. So, I'm right Yeah. I'm in the same neighborhood as the Harringtons and on Swan Road. And I just want to say I agree with most
everything they've said. We had a a herd of about 40 of these things over the winter and it was a horrible nuisance. The droppings were just overtaken the walks and so forth around the house. But uh since since uh Mr. Solarin helped us out. Uh you you all passed a ordinance and and that the the lady that was doing most of the feeding was fined apparently. And so I believe
she stopped feeding them, which is great. And I noticed over here at least there's a noticeable difference. The the turkeys are starting to disperse and uh things are looking a lot better here on Swan Road. But I think it's very important to keep up the uh the law and uh enforce it like you have been and I thank you for all you've done so far and that's it's made a significant improvement at least in my yard. So thank you very much. Thank you for your comments. And we
can ask Jojo if they'd like to speak um or Yeah. Well, I wonder if Jojo is with Katie Freeman, who's our Oh, yes. Sorry. Yep. Straight up here. All right. Um, okay. I think that is it. 56 Arcadia for the Freeman, I believe. Okay. Um, okay. So, we can move on to um our administrative
hearing at 20 CVY Hill Road. Um, and I'll make a motion to open the administrative hearing. Do I have a second? Second. Second. Roll call. Carrie? Yes. Kevin. Uh, you're muted, Kevin. Yes. Okay. Joan, yes. And Rick, yes. Okay. So, um just to just as a reminder of how these things
um work, um we're going to uh start with um a overview by uh a day um as to what the issue is, what has been done, what's transpired from the perspective of the health department and um And then we will ask um Mrs. Cooper, Kendra Cooper, um to who I believe is KGC, um you know,
to give her perspective and uh I think she's she's basically appealing the uh violation and the fine. And so she will give her thoughts about um this whole situation at which point um there will be an opportunity for the board members to ask questions. uh to Kendra and to uh AD about uh the situation and um after that if there are no more questions then we will um close
the administrative hearing and uh the board will have some time to deliberate on a decision. That's kind of how we're going to generally do these. So I'm going to start uh let Adday start with um with his uh overview. Thank you Dr. Lopez. The feeding of wildlife regulation section 26 was on the board of health agenda four times in 2025. It was on the agenda on February 13th, May 29th, June 12th, and
August 14. The regulation was finally approved by the board on August 14th, 2025. On December 1st, we sent out a do not feed wildlife flyer to Mrs. Cooper. After receiving a complaint and verifying a violation at her residence, we observed multiple bird feeders at her residence. On December 2nd,
Mrs. Cooper came to the office and stated that our flyer contained false information. She stated it was an elementary school level flyer and that she will keep feeding the turkeys. At that point, we informed her there was an approved wildlife regulation pending publication. On February 11th, the regulation was published in the Daily Times Chronicles
and it was posted to town website on March 16th. On March 2nd, after the publication, we received another complaint regarding turkey feeding at 20 Kov Hill Road. We found multiple bird feeders on her property, but one stood out to us. Um, Haley, could you please put up that picture? Yes.
Can you all see that? Yes. So, this is uh 20 Kovi Hill and right underneath the the tree, you can see a bird feeder right there, right above the turkeys. And that shows direct association between the bird feeder and the turkeys. They're getting food from the feeder and they're just relaxing on the fence. You know, they don't need to do much work to get the food. It's
right there readily available. Um, so based on that, we issued a cease and deceased order as well as a violation ticket to Mrs. Cooper. Um, we conducted uh subsequent inspections and uh the bird feeders have since disappeared. And I believe Mrs. Cooper is here tonight to either address the violation the violation and or to challenge the process. Thank you.
Thank you. A day. Um, can we uh unmute Mrs. Cooper? Yes. I just asked to unmute her. Great. Mrs. Cooper. Yes. Yes. Uh, welcome to the board. Thank you for coming. Um, well, it would have been nice to be in person. Absolutely. I can't believe that you don't do that kind of thing when you assess fines to people. Yeah. Well, it's it's been the case for a number of years for now and
many boards of health it was many boards of health are in fact remote but go ahead. Um uh my husband also was listed on this these charges. So he's here as well and I I prepared a summary of what happened in my view. Okay. Like to go through. So, you're both on That's fine. We're both on the same. We We're just looking at you together. Okay. Go ahead. So, the first time I'd ever heard of section 26 of the regulations was the copy attached to the fine and the desist order,
the cease and desist order. So, that raised my curiosity as to what the hell's going on because I I couldn't believe that I'm getting a fine for something I didn't know about. So, um I began to investigate. The first thing I did was check the town website. Uh and and there's no regulation 26 at this time frame. It didn't get in early March up until when March 16th 16th. Okay. After I pointed out that it wasn't on. So after that, I then went to your board
of health agendas for 2025 and I found out I found those same four meetings. I went to the videotapes and listen to the discussion of the four meetings. Uh and by the way, I I don't think you actually ever finally voted on that. There was no vote taken in the August meeting which is the effective date of the um of of the um regulation final draft which we and that would have given uh two of the members that were not there for the three vote
u on the the June meeting uh the chance to weigh in on it and so I'm not even sure it's valid that it's been voted on but anyway because it said on the agenda that it was going to be for inform and vote but you in vote. So that that bothers me a little bit. Um I I viewed the videos. I reviewed the minutes. Um all released on February 11th, 6 months after
the approval of the document. Basically, all of your minutes were released on 2025. on the 11th of February. There were a couple in the first part of the year that were re released earlier, but most of them that involved these four meetings at least were not released until February 11th. Uh the same day that the notice went in the paper for the legal notice. Uh so again at the June meeting
it was approved by Kevin Ston, Kelly, Carrie Dunnel and Richard Lopez. Um and then it was sent to the council for further review I believe and at the August meeting then uh the 14th well despite the agenda saying inform vote there was just a inform section of the meeting talking about the changes that were made the two days was fine with the legal as far as there was a rationale for it and so forth. Uh so no vote was taken though. I I did review that again tonight just to make sure.
Uh in the meantime, a cclick fix in November had identified 20 hill as a location uh feeding the turkeys. We weren't feeding the turkeys. We were feeding the birds. The squirrels were feeding the turkeys, you know. Uh, so we had a squirrel problem really, not a not a turkey problem, but I can understand why we should have done better on def uh putting a baffle up or something to defeat the the u squirrels from being able to disperse the u food to the turkeys basically. Um,
but we were unaware of any of this only after we got the the um fine and and because Well, no, but I'm saying we were not aware of the regulation. Absolutely. But we did get that all of that discussion the poster the little sheet that showed the mass wildlife saying don't feed the wildlife. Well, that's not even what they say. That that's this is this is like a a page of a six-year-old. Can I just finish, please? Okay. On December 3rd, we received that poster cartoon
notice and Kendra couldn't believe it would be from the board of health. So, she went to check it out and she'd found out that she Huh. Yeah. Oh, that's that it was issued by the board of health in in response to the cclick fix apparently. But, you know, you had the regulation approved at that time, so why didn't you hand out the regulation to us and we'd know about it instead of keeping it a secret, you know? Uh anyway, uh apparently another C click fix went out in
um the first part of the year, February I believe, and we were targeted by the health department, I think, for the cease and desist order and the notice of violation was issued uh after um that was it was March. Yeah, March. Because No, but they didn't have they didn't they didn't release the minutes till February 11th. I know. We didn't know anything about put a legal notification until 11th. So that's why we didn't know about it. Uh we think you've done a poor job in communicating
this regulation and we think we've been agrieved by that by being fined and having a a notice to uh desist cease and desist cease and desist order in place. So based on that, I' I would urge you to dismiss the violation and and you should consider dismissing it for everybody that's been fined so far because I don't think it was communicated. You could have sent it out with water bills or something like that. You know, I I just think you're not proud of this attempt
uh at at uh controlling the turkey problem. And I don't think it's going to be effective anyway. It will we we will reduce our feeding of the turkeys, but um we're not they they are in the yard. They are across the yard. They are native to this area where the golf course is, where the the uh for town forest is, where um you know, we've we've got all of these and the Ipsuch River. We have lived here since the 80s and we have we there have been birds for years. We have been and and we
have had a bird feeder. I can't I'm we can't go be out there and policing. Well, are the turkeys eating it or are the morning doves eating it or are the hawks eating it or the blue jays the I mean these this has not been a problem. It's been a you know and I think if if you were receiving these complaints you should have had some sort of public hearing so people could be aware of it. I mean people there's been nothing there was nothing in the newspapers other than you know and when I read the minutes and I read the times that you've discussed this and I thought you know why
didn't anybody talk in public about this instead we've got we've got that that's the other thing we we mention this to people and they're unaware of it you know they're just saying what you're me you know they can't believe it but anyway um we're we're going to try to do better with our squirrel problem really it's a squirrel problem. The other problem was that we received this now this was one of the worst snowstorms of the century of the you know not century of the decade maybe the
century too I don't know I'm not that old but uh but it was one of the worst problems and to have something when I read your when I when I read section 26 there is a lot of questioning in there I even the the legal angle that you've taken with that intentional and unintentional attractance what the definitions are I mean It's it boggles the mind and I have talked with many people in the Northshore about this including the Esters County um the agriculture the co-op which I belong to and they are mortified and they are shocked that the way this is worded and the expectations because
and some people are are being told take your bird feeder down other people I they call the health office and they're told get rid of your bird feeder well you know I don't think people have to get rid of their bird feeder if they control the bird seed that falls off of it. Right. But it's very hard to do. And especially when we got that and I looked at that picture. I mean, I have Well, that's not the bird feeder, by the way. That there. That's not even close. That's not even close. That's not a bird feeder that was circled. The bird feeder is way over to the left, you know.
So, I mean, and these are turkeys on my neighbor. You're circling something that is not even a bird feeder, you know. Well, and and that's I I am really appalled at the way that and by the way when properties were targeted and I mean and just because someone calls well you know and no one no one really other than me bringing up this thing that was not sent to us. It said to current owner in a childlike sprawl of 20 CVY Hill Road. I mean we and by the way and it did not look I mean I've
taught K through college and believe you didn't say we were going to continue to feed the turkeys. did not say anything. I I beg to differ with what with what aay said that is not the way it went down. And when I brought that to when I when I I showed that to them, one of the reasons that I couldn't believe it. Number one, it was not very professionally created. It did not. And I I told them, well, again, why why issue that? Why not give us the regulation? And I did ask them that actually you should have you should if you should have the law that says or you that you claim to
say that they will become aggressive. That is not true. And if you talk to the Ottawan society there are also other other organizations may become aggressive. May if you're going to go into serious legal aspects may should be something that you know the way it's worded and that and that's why I went down because number one it really did look like a first page first page of a coloring book for a six-year-old u but also with the cutesy little birds and stuff but it also had statements that were not true that you can't say they will become aggressive and we've had turkeys for years
as have many people in town and there are people in town who have no idea a that this was passed and that you were enforcing it with fines. This Well, anyway, I I don't understand. Number one, why wasn't there a warning given before the fine? That would make sense to me. And in that way, you would know that we're aware of the regulation before you find us, you know, but that that's just poor communication, right? this also. I mean, I did I wrote I wrote the um the board on the 10th of March after we got this thing and after we got a the um the violation, the alleged violation that
uh that says that uh that your uh health inspector was unable to obtain a signature. Well, my husband was home on that time. If that is when they did doorbell camera doesn't show anybody coming to the front door during that time at all. Uh and and I I understand what I got yesterday at 3:03 from uh from Aday. Uh and it just it goes into because I asked all right so who took the camp, you know, when was that photograph taken? What was it? And I did obtain the um the photograph from um from
uh Laura Jem because I specifically said, "Okay, we want a hearing, but we also need this kind of information like when was it publicized and um and we wanted to know um you know, how was it taken or what?" Because it looks like it was taken from the neighbor's yard. and she was appalled when she saw that because she said that, you know, this that doesn't look at all that looks like it's from her driveway. So, so she's really concerned and um and what I got from my day yesterday was that when
I said, "Well, how was it taken? In what manner were we notified?" and uh instead it I'm I'm get once again this mass general law chapter 21 you know chapter 40 21D uh no I criminal ticket or whatever but regardless of what that says the uh the um the notice that we got the violation specifically says that we were um let's see that that they were unable well and by signing it you
would be admitting something but also checking off without ever speaking to us that uh checking off that they were unable whoever came I don't even know I mean Zenith I think is his name he came and uh he he allegedly came there or I mean maybe he didn't and it checks off that uh that if this was that whoever it was that filled this out uh was unable to obtain a signature which implies that we might have watched them or something but that's not true and it's not that that he Nobody spoke to
us. We had no idea until I went to the post office and got it. We don't believe if he even was there the we now we through uh Laura Jim we have the metadata for the photograph and we know what kind of camera it was taken with. I asked through what means and nobody's they're just saying oh well they don't have. So we we did respond to the hearing and we didn't hear back at all. So, we sent you a letter just to make sure you had received that notice. You didn't respond. Nobody's
responding to us. So, what the hell is going on, you know? Well, and and plus, when we did get some some communication from uh it was I think on the 7th of of April, it was from Haley. Oh, yeah. Haley just said the meeting has been moved to the 15th. Advantage. I'm think I'm thinking that implies that we've been talking and we we knew when we were supposed to come or you have a hearing and and that's when I wrote things. I said, "Look, you know what is this just informing me of when the board of health has meetings or is this when we're supposed to have the hearing?" And
um and then I didn't get anything until our days yesterday. So, I mean, you know, it's it's there's a lot of miscommunication and I can only imagine what other people if they have gotten and now I requ have gotten fines and Laura Jim wrote three to me. I don't know if that's true or not. I don't know because and we were unaware of any of the u of these complaints until until we they got this this cute little thing. But I wasn't even aware of that. I mean, when I went up because
it looked like someone had gotten hold of the town stationary and and the town envelope and and I I couldn't believe that without something coming from the board of health that they would not have very specific references to a specific bylaw or something on it. Instead, it it ends up, you know, just having a brief. That's the absurdity that you had a by you had the rag already in place. If it was in effect in you didn't issue it given it to me then I don't know why you didn't issue it.
I don't think you're proud of it. Whatever. Well, I'm it's not proud. It's it's it's it undermines the trust of people is wrong. It really does when people, you know, hear about these things that exist and that that people are are are hit with fines and have no idea about it. you really need more publicity, but you also need to carefully look at the wording of that of section 26 because there are a lot of of problems with that. Okay. But anyway, I think I think if I think we kind of got the the picture. Um, you know, well, it definitely has been confusing to
put it mildly. you know, it's uh and and we want I guess it's I've never had a reason to feel badly about the board of health and or even watch your meetings. And the problem also is a lot of people in town are not online. I know it's you know I know you I know it's it's more convenient for you guys and for anybody who is it's nice but for neighbor I mean my neighbor is not online you know she's lived original owner and and she's she knows the the the trade. I mean, the Harringtons now,
we didn't know it was the Harringtons until we uh there was something on Cclick Fix when we were going and somebody else saw that. We didn't see it until they did a screen grab and now it's gone. It's off of the DPW site. No, it's still there. It's been archived. I I looked it up tonight. Yeah. Well, it wasn't for other people. I couldn't find it. Um, so let me ask, do any of the board members have questions for Mr. Mrs. Cooper. Um, if so, raise your hand and, uh, go ahead, Kevin. Um,
yeah, thank you both for coming tonight. Uh, I I I've listened to, uh, everything that you've had to say and and I I can definitely take it in. You know, processes can always be better. Um, I will say that we didn't do anything different with this regulation than we've done with anything any other regulation in the past. So, um you know, if if you want to complain about the overall process of it, I get it. That's fine. But on our side of it, we we didn't do anything different. We didn't um change anything. We did notify the public um via uh both newspapers that we were holding public
hearings. We did hold a public hearing uh in this matter. And this is a long time coming, believe it or not. This is not something that popped up uh on the radar. I just want you to know that. Now, all that being said, um you know, certainly your case seems to be unique in regards to there's um the fact that we I I feel like we may have bypassed a warning and and jumped right to an actual um fine. Um it seems like though you had a meeting with our um with our health director
in in regards to that. And so the questions I have have to you are have you feed have you been feeding these turkeys? You say it's a squirrel problem. I don't can you explain that to me how the squirrel in the feeder and dumps out the seed and the turkeys eat it off the ground. Okay. They come through they come through. They don't live at our yard or their neighbors. No, we know exactly where they live. They live off of Swan a on that base land. No, no. I don't think so. No, no, no, no. I know so. No, no, no. It's not open for argument of debate. I absolutely know. So,
I know exactly where they live and they they kind of make their way throughout the yards. And these are birds that absolutely have a patent, right? So, these birds know where they can get their their feed source from. I'm not saying you're feeding them. I'm saying they know where they can get their feed source from. Right? So, what we're trying to combat with this is the public nuisance to neighbors, which has been a a issue for years and years and years. Actually, the folks on Swan A are the ones that facilitated the need for this regulation because it was such an issue over in
that area because I don't know if you know behind Swan A, are you familiar with that that area? Oh, yes. So, there's that big vacant piece of land that's back there. Uh that that's where they kind of that's where they kind of stay and live and they come out and they migrate out and they go and they they they find their feeding spots and they kind of do that back there at the end of the night. That that's their mo. we kind of know it. Um it it's been very evident over the years. Um so that's really where this came from. And I just don't I I don't want to try to um argue
the points that you're making, but I just want you to know from a board of health standpoint, we have been very diligent with the way we've gone about this. Um this has not been a fast process at all. Um as a matter of fact, if you ask some of the neighbors that are affected by this, it's been a slow process. Um it's been several meetings that we've had along the way. Um and and un you know to dispute what you said earlier, we have had a public comment uh public hearing over it. Um so all this has been there. It's it's very difficult for us to feed everything that we do
down to every household. Um you know we go about it in a in in a manner that is um transparent. We go about in a manner that is making sure that we publicize this in the newspapers. We go about it exactly to the the way the law has laid it out. Now, is that perfect? Probably not. I'm not going to argue that point with you, but it's no different than any other way we've gone about it, uh, any other regulation that we've adopted. So, I just want I I I just want you to know that because it seems like you don't have a lot of faith right now in our department, but I want the public to
know and you to know that that's not the case. We have done exactly what we've always done. Um, and and it's tough to get everybody. I get it. Trust me, I get it. But at the end of the day, you're not going to get everybody. Um and and some things are going to fall by, you know, fall by the wayside in the way of people don't have the time, the inkling to want to delve into daily meetings. I like, you know, in in government. I understand that. Um so that's not that's not open
for argument debate. That's it's it's it's what it is. It's it, you know, there's no there's no um there's no malice um in anything that we've done. We we've just tried to help cure an issue that a lot of of residents have had with these turkeys and and wild animals for that matter. And this is the best way we came up with it. At the end of the day, if we roll it out and it's not perfect and we and we change it, so be it. but I'd rather roll it out in an imperfect thing that helps the community
right away. Um, so I I'm actually absolutely fine with the way we have our regulations written. Um, I will say to your to your defense that yeah, you probably should have got a warning um rather than a fine right out of the gate. A a verbal written warning with the actual regulation, the um putting out a a pamphlet on our behalf or or a flyer on our behalf. that's user friendly. That's about the best way we can do it. So, I know you you're calling like sixth grade flyer,
but you know, we're trying to be user friendly with that flyer. We're trying to make it easily accessible and and readable and digestible to the to the residents. Um, but the difference is if you had given us the regulation at that time, we'd know there was a fine. So, listen, I'm in I am in complete agreement with you. we should have given you a a warning and we should have given you the regulation with that warning. I'm not going to dispute that. Um I think that's
the way it probably should have gone. Um again, it it sounds like there was it sounds like this has been going on in your your yard for a while and that there's there should be some kind of leeway to allow you to figure out this regulation that we've just rolled out. But I don't want you to go out there and say that the process was flawed. It really wasn't. It was it was a long time coming. There's people on there's people on Swan AB that will tell you it was too long. When was that
hearing for that? The one that you say there was a public hearing. When did you conduct the public hearing? The first one. Um I don't know off the top of my head. I know we had one. Yeah. Well, we don't know either because we've looked back and we were trying to figure out when um was it in 2000 I mean where was it and when was it and how did people know because I specifically asked that's one of the questions when were you how was this publicized when were the hearings and what was the second newspaper because when I asked about how it was publicized um I where where was it was the
notice you said there were two newspapers the only one I'm aware of that I was told was I was aware of was the Chronicle on the 11th of 2026. So, if I can just jump in real quick, there are certain regulations that require a hearing and there are some that don't require a hearing. There was no hearing. And actually, Aday, I I did not talk with you the day that I went in with that with that little coloring book, you know, flyer that that even says like the wildlife strongly advises
them. And what I did say to them at the time was that the people in the office I just said you know if if this is what you want you should put the the like the regulation not just strongly advises I have researched it. I am on the the masspar legal the animal you know the animal subcommittee and you know we've all been looking at this and wondering what you know where it came from. Have they ever seen that? And and it says, "Do not do not," and this is the cute little one I'm reading
with with the colors. Uh it says, "Do not feed turkeys because turkeys will become aggressive." Not necessarily at all. Um and feces will begin to spread. So Kendra, can I stop you? Yeah. Do you have a problem with our regulation or do you have a problem with your fine? Because tonight you're here to discuss the fine that you were given. Well, we don't want to clarify. Understand? I I just I want to clarify which the fine is the issue that Okay. Can we can we stay to the fine? Can we focus on that? Because we don't we're we're not on the meeting tonight on the agenda to
discuss the regulation. We're here to discuss your fine. So, we cannot legally emperative hearing and vote because I haven't seen you know I I haven't watched that many Zoom meetings since actually this you've been zooming since co right? Is that when it started? Since 2020. 2020. And that's what I figured. So there are there's many there are many people who don't know unless you have another way of reaching them like in the water bills or like something like that. And
once they knew then they could say well okay was questioning it you know I mean I got a copy with the fine and um and and I I think we deserve to know exactly how what what means was used for the for our signature to be collected. Now I understand ADA said that well you don't need to. It's just site. Well then don't send out a violation uh sheet that says that that it that says that you did not you know you you were unable they were not unable to get the signature.
They didn't even try. So that's that's the Can we move on beyond the signature? Uh Carrie you had a question. I did. Thank you. Dr. Lopez. Um my question was just I I Kevin you had raised the question about the warning and I had made note that there was a notice on December 1st that was a flyer and I I wanted to understand from a day if that was um the a first step and was that considered a a was that departmental treatment as a warning. Um I just wanted to understand it not
um I'm not interested in discussing the quality or the character of the pamphlet. I'm just interested in I'm interested in hearing from a day our director please uh if I could understand what the process and the intent was on December December 1st with that um distribution. Thanks. Thank you very much. So yeah, at that point in time the um the regulation had not been published and I did
not feel comfortable um doing a you know issuing a ticket or a warning based on a regulation that hadn't been published. So instead of that, I sent something that was friendly that would still drive in the same point to the occupants of 20 Kov Hill. And um as a result, she came in and had a lengthy conversation with the department and um she stated multiple times that she wouldn't stop feeding the
turkeys the birds and she also stated that you know it was an elementary school level flyer and that you know it contained false information. So, at this point, um, I knew that we were dealing with somebody that knew what she was talking about. She understood what was going on and, um, we were able to publish the regulation and, uh, we got the same complaint and I didn't feel,
um, the need to issue a warning since the occupant knew exactly what was going on. We didn't know they were to our office. If I could please hear from a day. Thank you. And she had been to our office telling that she would never stop feeding the drugs. No. Okay. Thank you. A day. Thank you very much. A day. Thank you for the answer to the question. So what I understand is that the department chose to provide education as the first step and did so with an established pamphlet that provided information about it. And I understand you. I I'm what I understood from a
day's words is that they provided education in the form of a pamphlet that no that asked that asked that provided information about not feeding that's education that's not the regulation that's education and now I understand the process and how we move forward thank you for that clarification I think uh unless there are any other questions I think we should probably close the administrative hearing And I I would like to add this is not an education pamphlet. That is just a sheet. And I
did not say I'm going to continue feeding the turkeys. I mean, I never said that. I wouldn't say that. Okay. You know, I mean, I I'm I'm really concerned at how this is coming out and and um you know, with the I mean, I don't know if you people saw it, but it certainly looked like someone had gotten town stationary and then printed something in color. um in that if and I explained to them that we needed to have some we you know they they should if they want this to be you know a notice they they need to to put references specific things I think if you see it everyone
I've seen this looks at this and said isn't that cute they don't look at it as a warning with any penalty or anything so I'm I'm concerned about the way that the board of health is con is doing this and dealing with this and you know it would have been quite quite much easier if if they had been there had been a a hearing at which people said, "Look, we have concerns with with the uh with the wildlife and especially the northern part of town, though the the the turkeys are everywhere. They're
not just here at my feeder." And you know, so I think a Swan Road could have a problem, but also you've got to consider all the construction that we have. I know you know about the rat problem, but around here it's also the construction and right behind people in Swan Road, that's where there's these there's been a total upheaval of all the wildlife and over near Martin Road and all that area. Uh, okay. I think we need to we need to move on because we're getting into the broader discussion. Um, well, that's part and the purpose of the hearing is really more around the question
of the violation and the fine. Um, and so I'm gonna make a motion. I appreciate that you listen to us, too, because it's so frustrating to to have this kind of thing. Well, we we know you're trying to do the right thing for the community. You know, we we saw that. We are too. I mean, we Yeah, we are too. You know, it's um but anyway. Okay. I'll make a motion to close the administrative hearing. Do I have a second? Joan second. Roll call. Kevin, Carrie, yes. Yes. And
Joan and Rick. Yes. Um, okay. So, uh, comments. Um, I I think ultimately we need to vote on the violation and the fine. Do we uh accept the appeal or do we think it should go forward based on the conversation and the issues that the Coopers have brought up um is really the issue before us.
I'll go. Okay. Um, so I I think I I just want to, you know, to start off. First of all, um, I'm going to go slightly off topic with a a point of personal privilege. This regulation um was put into place out of necessity. It wasn't something that we created in our own heads. It's something that was brought to us by the public as a public need for a public nuisance that was going on. Um, and so I want people to really understand where this was driven from. Um, and and more so
the the feedback we've gotten from the folks that were most affected by it is this regulation has actually worked in a very short period of time. So I have to say I've been in government for a while. Well done. Um, that doesn't happen very often where you put something into play and it and you get immediate results. So, I have no issue with this um regulation. If we need to tweak it as we go, so be it. Again, I said this earlier. I'd rather roll out a bad product that helps
people right away and fix it as we run with it. And if that's the case, and I'm not saying it is, but if that's the case, then that that's what we'll do. Um that's what we've always done. Um, in regards to this particular um, folks, I I kind of see this pretty simply. I would prefer in the future that regardless of um communication that's given um that the first offense is an is a written warning with the actual full um legal uh regulation and and and you know a day I I can
appreciate your point in jumping um right right to a fine 100% I I don't disagree with you uh with that. Um, again, you know, we're rolling something out new and we're we're kind of learning on the fly a little bit ourselves here. Um, but you know, I I think that's a that's something that the board originally wanted. Um, and you know, we can debate if we want whether that was done or missed or conveyed. You know, I I I don't want to get into that type of argument. I I want to get into what
actually happened and and and there was not an actual written warning with the regulation given and maybe that's not written up that way a day and and that's probably our fault for not instructing you um properly to to do just that and we'll have to look at that as part of the process. But to me, I would um in this one instance, I I wouldn't I wouldn't find these folks. Um, I would consider that the fine that they got as the warning. Um, I would want to make sure that they are
um they are mailed an official um regulation from us so they can see exactly what it is. Um, that's the way I I I kind of feel on this. I would also like to put out for the public because there has been some discussion about can you have a bird feeder in your yard? Yes, you can. Yes, you can. We carved out a very specific exemption to have bird feeders in your yard. So all the folks that are not listening to this that that might in the future, yes, we we absolutely carve that out as an
exemption for you to have in your yard. However, there's a caveat to that, right? So if it becomes a public nuisance of having those feeders then you need to you know move them or remove them entirely um to to make it not a public nuisance. So that is part of the exemption that the both parts um I just want that to be known but my my failing would be um this fine should have been come as a warning. I think the um um the Coopers are well aware of of of what this is at least
from a verbal standpoint. I would hope to that we can get them the actual um written uh regulations so that they can be fully understanding of of what it is. just to um sort of follow up on a couple points that Kevin made. Um you know when we when we institute a change in regulations or a new regulation typically what we do is we make a real effort in the case of specific
um uh industries or um people who uh businesses that are going to be impacted or or whatever. um to educate them on the new regulation. So when we made changes in the tobacco regulation, you know, we went out and we made sure that all the retailers that sell tobacco and nicotine knew there were changes when we make a change for a food establishment for food uh treatment. We we make sure that we send out information that this is the new regulation.
It's a little bit more um focused because it just impacts a particular industry or you know people who have dumpsters you know for the new dumpster regulations. In the case of this wildlife feeding it it basically impacts 26,000 people. you know, it impacts the the entire um town and so it's a little bit harder to um uh to get the word out. I think, you know,
from tonight's discussion, clearly there are some ways we could probably do better at that. um you know in terms of social media um although there are people who don't go online um you know publication in newspapers I don't know how many people read newspapers these days um it's not as common and so it's it is harder I remember when we had um we were dealing with COVID it was very hard to get changes out to everybody uh with that so I just want to acknowledge that
we could probably do better in these kinds of regulations. Um but uh we you know I think as Kevin mentioned we did you know the best we could. Um I I don't think I have the regulation in front of me and I just scanned it. I don't I don't think there's any mention of giving a warning but I also think that that's the discretion of the inspector. Um so for um any type of uh u you know violation of a regulation a warning could be issued and then the inspector comes back and sees
that the problem has been rectified. So that could have been um an approach and you know given some of the communication issues I'm sort of leaning towards Kevin's um uh you know thinking that you know maybe in this case we view this as a warning. I think the uh Coopers are very now well aware of the regulation and um have rectified the problem. Um and you know there is there is a saying and
I'm not a lawyer but there is a saying that you know ignorance is no excuse. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Um and uh so you know there's that but I think in the case of perhaps fairness um we could consider a warning. Carrie, do you did you have a comment? I'm seeing you nod there and I I I do, but I saw Joan had her hand up earlier and I just want to make sure Oh. Um I was just um when Kevin was talking about um maybe there should have been a warning. I I
believe it it the the regulation reads that the first offense is a $50 fine. And in my opinion, they were whether they choose to call it that or not, they were warned in in December and should have been aware that it's a violation whether there's a fine with it or not and they chose to continue and and so in my opinion, they were warned. Um and I'm I would lean towards continuing
the fine. Other people have been fined. Yeah. And uh you know where where do you draw the line? Carrie. Yes. Thank you. Um Rick, I I um I think that um a couple things. I I want to talk about the communication aspects that's been raised and the the question of notice. And I and I I I want us to be cautious about this because yes, ignorance of the law is no excuse for
um non-compliance and um if our public safety partners um you know heard were were were part of this conversation and how many times people said gosh I didn't know that that was the case. you know, yes, understand we, you know, we can't there's just it's just not possible to notify people of everything all of the time. And that's part of why there are, you know, there's trust placed in appointed and elected officials to be taking care of the needs of the community. So,
I I I I'm not saying that we ought not try and do a good job of making sure folks know, but I don't want us to be um somehow suggesting to ourselves and anyone else that um we should be noticing on every single regulation change in the water bills and figuring out how to spend additional town resources to um flyer every house. it's it's it's not practical and it's not cost-effective. Um,
and I do want to acknowledge that. Um, I also want to um speak a little bit about the the the um the means of uh the the communication. It it sounds to me like the the um there was some contentious conversation and I that concerns me on behalf of all municipal employees. Um I think that um when folks work product is not is described in uncharitable terms I think that that is um
challenging and difficult and when it's repeated that you know the the work is elementary the work is not um appropriate you know if if we if the board if the department are distributing something that's not good quality we want to know and I also would hope that um folks and um understand that the folks that work for us in our town work for all of us and that they are doing the best that they can and sharing the best information that they have available and uh it's important
to me that that that be understood. um I you know whether the material is um written in the highest level of language there's actually standards that are required that we be creating materials that um hit at a eighth grade reading level so that it's accessible as Kevin as you said Kevin it's it's accessible to all folks that it is readily accessible and understandable and um I I I needed to say that and then I just I think yes if there have been three folks that have been fined and
there has been uh and the regulation is written as a first offense is a $50 fine. I have some concerns about uh vacating the fine. We you know the the process was followed. um if this were if there were no other folks that this had gone had been fined um you know perhaps we'd be having a different conversation but our regulation as we wrote it was first offense is a $50 fine and um I appreciate all of the the consternation um but I I think it's important that we be consistent so
um I I feel a little I feel a little stuck here I feel like we boxed ourselves in our regul ation says that and I'm not sure I see the the warrant there was communication on December 1st which may or may you know is education um which is typically a first first public health intervention is education um and that um you know we we we did do that and then there was further communication so um I I do feel a little stuck um and I'm going to stop here uh go ahead Um, all right. So, as now
it's coming back to me, I do recall that it was the first um the first um um offense was a fine, but I also recall us discussing in great detail that we wanted um education to be the first line this offense. So is that flyer that was sent out I'm assuming that is what that detailed the question I would have on that does that in any way um point in the direction of the actual regulation
a day do you want to answer that it's just an educational flyer um okay you know educating the occupants about the consequences of feeding turkeys that's all okay understood Good. Um, so again, I defend this regulation to the hilt. Um, is it perfect? No. And have we found, in my opinion, I'm I'm going to speak only for myself, not for the board. Um, in my opinion, have we found a little bit of a flaw in it? I believe we have. I think I think if we're going
to find somebody, they first should receive the regulation. Whether it's on a flyer that somebody agrees with or doesn't agree with, I don't care. um does it point towards the regulation where they can actually go and look it up and see what it is? To me, that that should be a new um moving forward um covenant that we that we have with that flyer. Um and so again, Carrie, I hear you, you know, where you're torn on. Joan, I both you I I can't disagree with any of your points. Um the
only thing I would say is that we did just roll this out. Um, I know other people have been fined. I also know that the reason they were fined is the actual reason for this regulation. So, it's a well-known history, which is much different than the Coopers. Um, at least to our knowledge on the board of health. We've never we've never heard about the Coopers um in the context of of feeding wild um anything um before this night. We have heard of several times in several complaints of of
uh folks on Swan a feeding them which is really where this came from. I I know that because it came through me. Um I was the original member of the board that brought this to the board um as a direct complaint from a a resident over um on Swanav about an ongoing issue that they have. We have we have video evidence quite frankly of them actually feeding them can physically see it. Um I don't think we have that of the Coopers. Uh so I I don't I don't see the two things as the same.
um quite frankly um one was the original proponent or the original person that that needed this regulation and one is somebody that is was um choose my words carefully here that was not 100% aware of it and I think there's a difference because the other the person that we brought this forward for or that that created the need for this I will say um is a better way of putting it um was made very aware um where where we we talked to them on several points before we even had this
regulation in place um in regards to it. So, I hear what you're saying, but I I just see them as as different things and where we're just rolling this out. I I would I would air it on the side of the Coopers and and consider this a warning for them uh moving forward. Again, I just make the will the board is fine. Can I make a couple of comments, please? Um, so, uh, the first comment is that we did everything according to the law. We didn't do anything incorrectly. We didn't do
anything illegal. We followed all the protocols. Um, we followed state guidelines, local guidelines as well. And uh also uh issuing a warning is at the discretion of the director or and or the inspector. So there's no requirement to always issue a warning first. In this situation, um we had a regulation that was approved, had not been published. We sent educational materials out to
the uh residents. Um we got a reaction back. The resident actually came to the department um you know and had a discussion and said certain things and admitted that they would not stop feeding the turkeys. So, I'm not sure like why I would issue a warning if we already know that this president
is adamant about giving up these activities. So, I feel like we did everything correctly and we sent educational materials out and according to the regulation, it says first offense is $50. That was their first offense. Can I ask you back in December when you had this conversation when she when you know in the department when when Mrs. grouper came in. Did you convey to her that we had
a it wasn't just the flyer, but we actually have a regulation now? So, I I did not have like I had an indirect um conversation because I was actually in the office taking care of certain things. Haley was talking to her directly and I believe Haley conveyed the information that you know there is an approved regulation that's pending publication. Um but that was what transpired. I was in the middle of something when she came in she came in without giving us notice which is okay
but again if I'm in the middle of something it's okay for Haley to come in and ask me about certain things. Um and that's what how we've been doing it. So was so was it conveyed to her that there was I believe it was so again she knew about this in December. She got educational materials. The regulation says first offense $50. It doesn't say issue a fine. It says $50 for the first
offense. And that was what we did. She got the educational material. She knew there was an issue. She came to the office and told us that she would not stop feeding the turkeys and February. So, which was three weeks before the fine occurred. The the the regulation was published in the newspaper in February, February 11th. Correct. And the fine was issued March 2nd. Correct.
I I'm just I'm I'm concerned about us setting a precedent that um that that's again that's my concern. I appreciate your comments, Kevin. I'm just trying to I'm trying to figure this out. Um because our regulation states something and we're we're we're I we're yeah um you know what our discussion is and I and I I I I understand the discussion but our discussion is and our
our interest is is is be is expressing something different than what our regulation says. And I am challenged to think about how we approach that um and not set a precedent that um well if you just come in and and argue it um and I don't mean that disrespectfully um but you know sort of like like if you go in and argue the speeding ticket then you know they'll it'll get wiped out. Um they
then yeah I and I don't want I don't want to put our staff or us in that position. Um you know so that's that's why I'm still stuck. Um and again if this was the first person it would make it so much easier. Um um and you know and appreciating all the things that you're saying Kevin about the different circumstances. I you know I I I know. Um, but yeah, I remain so I is that's that's my
gig, Carrie. Precedent. We've talked before and other regulations. Sure. Yeah. You know, I I feel like that's why we have this appeal process, though, right? That's why it's it's it's readily available. And I just go back and I just uh you know I I I I fully um defend a day and what he's saying and telling us and I take it as absolute truth. I have no question to question uh you a day and I I I I I'm on your side. Um the evidence is different. So saying one thing
in the heat of the moment and doing something well I mean we have to prove that they actually did it. Right. So, um, at the end of the day, this is a bird feeder hung from what I could see on a tree. It's not like the other properties where it was on the ground with video evidence of somebody. We like we have that we we have them. It it's it's not a question of did you No, no, here it is. Let me show it to you in in lifetime. And you also have it on the ground, which makes it readily available. Um I I feel like the evidence is different in this case in that
regard almost even to the point where if they knew it was occurring. Now can we I I know we've closed discussion. Did they did the Coopers reference that they've moved that feeder or not move that feeder? Well, we did a subsequent um reinspection and the feeders have vanished since then. They have multiple feeders on their property, but the one that stood out to us was the one hanging from the tree right above the turkeys. There is a correlation between that feeder and the turkeys
below. So that has been that is no longer there. Is that what you're saying? It's no longer there. Correct. But but then has that been removed since since the fine was absolutely given? Yes. I mean, the other the other point I would just make about photographs is we don't need um at least I didn't think we needed photographs, right? You know, when we go inspect a restaurant and they've had food out, we don't take multiple pictures, you know, because they left the food out
and it should be refrigerated, whatever. I mean, or or dumpsters that are overflowing if we don't have pictures. I mean, we rely on our inspectors to visualize a violation and at least that's always been from what I've heard in the last five years that's always been adequate. Oh no, absolutely. That's why I question you know is the theater still there or not? Yeah. Yeah. But the feeder was removed after not in December or was it still it was still present in December and that's
why the fine was issued in my understanding. I just want to understand the fact the photos uh were taken in March and we conducted subsequent reins inspections after that and the defeaters were gone. Okay. So education was not effective. So dece December you're talking to them but they're still there in March. That's what we're that's what well they at the dece in December when she came in she stated that she wasn't going to do anything about it and she would keep
feeding the turkeys. She stated that clearly and she said our flyer was elementary level. So, so it's interesting um Adlet completely agree with you in your assessment um that that should have been given as a that should have been you know whether it was written or not that's a that's a warning um which is quite frankly outside of the scope of our uh regulation and actually more fair um to the resident at the time and if
they didn't remove it till March that's that's not a good look Um, yeah. Okay. Does someone does a board member want to make a motion of all the of all the meetings where we have four people? Um, it would be nice to have an odd number, but um um so what are we motioning to? Right. Exactly. to ex to the the question
deny the appeal. The purpose of the hearing is to either validate the violation and the fine uh as as as it has been done or to accept the appeal and revoke uh the the violation and the fine. So after more discussion, um I think I would at least we can take at least a first vote. I mean,
I think I would um make a motion to um validate the fine and the violation given the fact that um there was uh standard notification, the newspaper 3 weeks before um three weeks before the violation as well as a discussion in December um that um in which the Coopers
were notified that there was a regulation even though it wasn't posted. Um I think there was adequate communication there. Maybe not the best. So my motion is um that we validate the violation and the fine. Do I have a second? Second. Roll call. Um Carrie. Yes. Kevin,
no. Joan, yes. And Rick, yes. Okay. Um, I think that uh I think might be a good idea in um maybe in our next meeting to have an agenda item to talk about um you know when we do regulations, what's the expectation
about communication and um and at least have a standard protocol. But we need to move on. We've been on this topic for over an hour and I appreciate the Freeman's hanging in there. Um so so I'm going to make a motion to open the next administrative hearing um for the matter at uh 56 Arcadia Avenue. And um do I have a second? Second, Joan. Second. Roll call. Carrie. Yes. Kevin. Yes.
And Joan. Yes. Rick. Yes. Okay. So, um, at this point, the Freemans are probably experts at how these administrative hearings work. Um, we're going to ask a day to give us an overview of the issue involved here. um what's transpired and um and then give um Katie Freeman an opportunity uh to give her perspective on this and then we will um have time for questions um and then conclude
the hearing and take a vote. So a day um you're on right. Thank you Dr. Lopez. Um, on March 24th, uh, 2026, um, the Massachusetts Department of Public Health forwarded us a complaint about a residential kitchen permit holder advertising and offering TCS foods from their home kitchen. Um, TCS simply means time, temperature, control for safety. So, we immediately investigated the issue
and determined there was a violation of the food code based on the information obtained online. Let's see. Haley, can you please put that up? Just scroll down. Keep going just to the food section. Keep going. All right. Right. Right. Can you turn it around? Would you be able to do that
or no? Give me one second. Don't know if I'll be able to do that. Hold on. lower right hand corner. Yeah, sorry I couldn't see it. There we go. Okay, so we immediately investigated the issue and uh we determined there was a violation of the food code based on the information obtained online. Um so the residential kitchen permit has limitations and only allows for the preparation of baked goods, jams, and jellies. pretty much foods that do not require hot or
cold holding for safety. So, as evidenced in this picture, you can see that that's not the case. Um, there are some cut tomatoes, onions, and potentially, you know, you know, grains in there. Um, we also noticed uh inadequacies in the product label. So we immediately issued a cease and desist order and provided the permit holder with corrective measures and educational materials regarding um you know residential kitchen food protection program.
Katie was very cooperative during the process. Um she has since taken down those pictures. Um, I believe she now fully understands the limitations of her permit and even though you know the violation of this nature, a violation of this nature uh could result in a revocation of her permit. I would not recommend the board take this action at this time. Um, Katie, are you here? Would you like to say anything regarding this? Eddie,
can you hear us? She should be unmuted. Yes, looks like she is. Should I maybe try to unmute Jojo as well or just just about to say that? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. No, I'm sorry. Can you hear me? Oh, yes, Katie. Yes, I'm here. Sorry,
it's giving feedback. You want to mute one? Be fixed now. Let me Oh, do you have us on TV? You're you're this being recorded. Um if you if you're both together and you're both on on it maybe um right. Okay. Can you hear me now? Yes. Yes. Perfect. Okay. I can't hear them. I can't hear them now. Um so did you hear everything we said?
She can't hear us. Um, give me just one second. I'm sorry I I can't hear you. Okay. Um, all right. I'm sorry. I'm just going to try to log in on my phone and see if I can What were you going to say? Yeah. I mean, I'm I'm I I'm It's not
I can't The speaker on the computer is not working, so I know I have to. Katie, how about now? Can you hear us? Should we play a theme song till she hears it?
Oh. I'll remove her other one so it doesn't um echo. Yeah, make sure I do the right one. One is one is K A T I I'm going to remove Can you hear me now? I think we need to remove Katie and keep Katie. Okay. Okay. I just wanted to make sure I didn't remove the wrong move Katie and keep Kate. Okay. Remove Katie.
And now we will unmute Kate. Okay. Can you hear me now? Yes. Can you hear us? Yeah. Okay. I'm so sorry about that. No worries. Oh my gosh. Okay. Um so basically what happened um was I have two separate Instagram accounts. Um, one is an account that I've had for many, many years. Um, that was just pictures like a food
blog that I had created. Um, that has like all different pictures. And then I have my separate business account um for the business that I had just opened. Um, it was I believe that week um I had just opened the Instagram account for my the separate one for my business. Um, and the picture is actually from my food account, not my business account. Um, I believe the person
had screenshot it and attached it to the email. Um, and then in terms of the label on my package, I have the name of my business on the front and then on the back of my package, I have a separate label that has all the ingredients. Um, which I actually since that picture was uh taken and put on given to you guys, I've now put on the front of my bags. Um, so I mean, as far as I'm concerned,
I h I hadn't done anything um that violated the the food uh safety code. Um, and I had spoken to um Zerahan about it and it had seemed like things were worked out. Um, so I wasn't quite sure, you know, moving forward what what the situation was. So, can I ask um so you have two two different Instagram accounts. One is your business account and one is your um where you post pictures
of things you've made or other things like that. Yeah. Right. And so, yeah, under your permit, um, have you actually made, um, food items that are in violation of your the, uh, limitations of your permit or not? No, I haven't sold anything that is is um against the the T is it the TC? TC. Yes.
TC. Um, TCS. No, I haven't I haven't sold any any any of that food. No. So, the complaint was that someone drew a connection of your your second your your personal Instagram account where you post different foods. Yeah. And they they said, "Well, you must be selling these." And that that was the complaint that went to the state. Is that is that how I understand it? Yes. Um the person had also
um complained about two other local home um residential kitchens with I believe similar or um claims having never purchased anything from their business. I I don't this person has never I believe purchased anything from me because they would have seen um the labels specifically on the bag. Um, that's why I knew that it was just a screenshot from from social media. So, um,
yeah, I I haven't been selling anything that that violates the the residential kitchen law. Okay. Is that your understanding today as well? Correct. And uh we've been able to um send um Kate some educational materials as well. Um and um at this point I'm comfortable saying that she now understands the limitations of her permit better.
Any other questions for Kate? So, a couple I'm just I'm trying to rack my brain around this. I I I I understand the con concept of it all. Um, so you have All right, I'm gonna beat this to death here. Sorry, Kate. It's okay. You have you have two separate accounts. One is like your personal um blog, right? This is um you know um something I made today and and then you have a business one is like this is something you can purchase. Is that correct?
Yes. Okay. And the item in um involved was from the personal blog, not the business blog or the Instagram account, whatever. So, if I can jump in real quick. So, this is it. It's it's all about perception. So, it appears that you know when you have your personal No, no. I like No, I I get it. I'm just trying to verify, you know. Yeah. Yeah. So when you have verify I'm trying to figure out how we can verify. Yes. So when you have your personal Instagram account um
you have a bunch of followers and then when you open up a brand new business account you really don't have followers and sometimes you may want to promote your business on and I believe that you're explaining social media to a Gen Xer. You know that right? Yeah. We invented this stuff. Sorry to cut you off. Um, but no, I listen, I I completely understand it. I just I'm just trying to understand the process. So, we did a site visit um um to Kate's house or Katie's house
and just to to verify. Is that correct? Yes, we have some verification. That's what I'm I'm I'm looking for. I guess I should have just led with that. Correct. Okay. Okay. Yes, John. So, so my understanding is that there was there was no violation essentially. Yes. Perceived violation. There was a Right. But there was no actual violation, but she has since taken down those pictures and uh she's done her best to There'll be no further misunderstanding. Correct.
And she's it got improved labeling. So, correct. Even if there is further misunderstanding, it's not about the misunderstanding. It's about the sale. Right. So if there's no sale, there's no violation. I mean, she could promote, you know, meatloaf on her business site all day long. When someone shows up to get meatloaf, they're like, "Well, sorry, I don't I don't sell meatloaf." So, right. So, there's the perception does not create a violation. That's that's kind of where I was trying to figure out. Um that she could promote, you know, cheeseburgers on her business site if she'd like all day long. If she sells a cheeseburger, she's in violation. So,
we are required to investigate every time we get a complaint. I know. So every time she does that and somebody complains, I know I get investigated. As it should be, I mean that that was my initial sort of um question was that I was sent the cease and desist, but I was just confused because I knew where the pictures were from um after going back and looking at my two accounts. And then I was wondering how that is handled or how that would
be handled in the future if there's some sort of like investigation before something like that is sent out. Um so where um Haley, can you please put up that picture again? Um, so the way um your text reads on the picture um okay so it says, "Hi everyone, my name is Katie and I've recently opened an at home bakery called Katie's Table." And then you have all these pictures. So basically
like when you look at this, you're pretty much telling people that this is what you're making. That's that's what it looks like. I'm licensed by the reading board of health. I make sad breads, sandwiches, and then you have all these pictures of things that you shouldn't be making. So, that's where the issue is. Um, right. But I I believe that that picture was taken from my other account and sent to you. Okay. But it says right here, Reading Board of Health. I'm licensed
by Red B of Health. Yeah. you know. So that's the I know I and I can see how that's confusing, but I believe that this picture is it is from my other food account and she it seemed to me that this person was trying to go after local home businesses the way that she had worded her email and lumped in two other women. Um so this this picture itself we actually looked online as well and we found it exact. So this is this is our screenshot, not somebody's screenshot.
This is Ton of Reading's screenshot that we took online. This is Katie. This is posted under your name. This paragraph. Yeah. No, I know it's posted because I have But I have the actual picture I didn't believe was in my post that was on my business account. Yeah. So this is our picture. We we we got this screenshot from your website and it has your name on it, Katie Freeman. And it also references Reading Board of Health and that was why you got a cease
and deceased. Okay. I'm sorry. I didn't realize that that picture was part of the of the pictures that I posted. I had posted a bunch of pictures that were all together and I I didn't even realize that that was in it. Yes. The I apologize for that. Yes. If you scroll down, um um Haley, I mean, this was a promotion right here. So, right here, go back down. Let's see. The one with the rice and the one with my food page. Exactly. So, that's your personal page, right? The one with
the rice and shrimps and things like that. Yep. Okay. So, that's your personal page. And then if you go to the bread, go go back to right here. No, no, no. That's an advertisement or promotion that you posted on the Reading Mass business page and you stated you shared those pictures and stated I have just opened this new business and this is what it is. So that's your that was your post. So that's why this that's why this came up. You said you're licensed by the Red H, you know. Yep.
Okay. I didn't realize that that picture was was in there to be honest. I've I wasn't selling that. So I don't I don't know. So that was the reason for the cease and deceased and um okay since then you've you know you've removed those pictures and that's why I'm recommending to the board not to um you know revoke your license. Okay. Okay. Because you're cooperative and um you know I feel like you fully understand the limit limitations of your residential kitchen permit. Yes, I do.
Okay. Okay. Um there are no other questions. I make a motion to uh close the administrative hearing so we can deliberate on this. Second. Second. Carrie. Roll call. Carrie. Yes. Kevin Jones. Yes. And Rick. Yes. Thank you, Kate, um for your time. And we're we're going to discuss this now.
It sounds like um from my perspective this was just um uh there wasn't a violation um in terms of selling the inappropriate foods. So I don't see it as a reason to revoke the permit myself. I mean I I am going to say I just it I I the the post with those photos by the business owner saying these are the thing you know this is my new business and these are the
pictures that's that is concerning but I I I you know here speaking you know hearing from a day about his confidence that that the business owner understands the limitations of their permit um you know I I will I I support the um you know I trust our our staff that they're confident on that and that you know the education and understanding of the the seriousness of I mean there's a reason that we look for proper time and temperature control. It's to prevent
um serious health impact and it's not just because we're um I don't know trying to be mean. Um I mean this is this is a very ser it's it's it has serious implications um especially for people who maybe are immune compromised or have other illnesses and you know so um but yes thank you for doing the work a day with the business owner and um providing the information to us. Thank you.
Um yeah I mean Carrie Rick I would I would agree with you both. think at at the the worst that this is um a um a misrepresentation um by mistake um not not by malice and seems to be the case here. I would agree though from a standpoint I you know good you know good job a day with this one because anytime that someone assigns the board of health and shows those pictures that's where it becomes very problematic um where now it's you know we don't want it to spread that
oh you can you can sell that type of product um with the port of health's approval no not not under regular circumstances you must have special conditions in order for that to happen um so um I I I'd agree. I I I I don't see um I don't I don't see any real violation that occurred here. I think it's just a um a a misunderstanding in the at the worst case scenario, which I don't think it is a just a misrepresentation. Um but I don't think it's that either. But neither one of those rises to the um um to a a findable offense. I agree. I agree that,
you know, there was a perceived potential violation and it was addressed directly and and um the uh business owner was cooperative and everything's fine. Good job. So, I just I just make a to sort of seal this. I would just make a a motion um to uh I don't know Uh, I would make a
motion to uh allow Kate to continue her permit and um and no violation was found. Seconded. Ke Kevin second. Roll call. Carrie. Yes. Ke Kevin. Yes. Joan. Yes. And Rick. Yes. All right. Moving down to the backstretch here. And before we go on, I you know, folks, if you want to stay on, it's you're more than welcome to. It's a public meeting. If you want to drop off, don't worry.
We'll understand. We understand. By all means. It gets very procedural from this point forward. So, and we appreciate you stick sticking in and making the effort to attend the meetings. All right. Monthly report. Um I'm going to make this brief and then I'll have um leave go after me and then hopefully we can wrap this meeting up as quickly as possible. Um in the month of March we conducted 14 comprehensive food inspections, two food reinspections,
one food born illness investigation and one food complaint. We issued one new food permit, uh, six housing order to correct letters, and four solid waste 21D tickets. All right, Liv, you can go ahead with the nursing updates, please. Okay, good evening, everyone.
Okay, welcome to April. Welcome to spring. So excited. Okay, so for the month of March, we had 73 flu cases and 19 COVID cases. Little uptick in the flu there. Um, but we are starting to trend down, which is wonderful. Um, for April, here are blood pressure screenings for the month. April 3rd, I was at the senior center. On the 27th, I'll be at the library and on the 23rd, I'll be at uh 22 Frank Tanner Drive. It is National uh Minority Health Month this
month in April. Time to raise awareness and the importance of improving health for all racial and ethnic minority individuals. It is also Medicaid awareness month, time to recognize the central role Medicaid plays in the lives of over 80 million Americans and many, many here in Reading. It is also National Autism Acceptance Month. Communicate effectively with someone with autism. Here are some tips and tricks. Oh, it is also alcohol awareness month here in April. So, check your alcohol use. This is little
uh checklist and also a nice little standard drink list. All right. So, events that I have coming up. I have the annual hearing screening is coming back. We have it coming on May 20th. This is the QR code to sign up. I also have the link um for anyone that might want it. I will also be having a hearing screening coming for the for our Reading Fire Department um and our EMS staff. I'm pretty excited about that. We have the mimography van coming on Tuesday, May 5th. Uh,
please register because spots are sign uh filling up quickly. I will be doing a Narcan training with the Reading Coalition for Prevention and Support on May 11th after a CPR class, a hands-on CPR class that I will be teaching that same night. We have our annual health fair that I organized at the Pleasant Street Senior Center coming up on June 1st. I already have over a dozen vendors coming. Um, so last year we had 31. Um, so please if you're able to come by,
we really appreciate that. Um, we are doing a regional baby shower in um, hopes to support new and expecting families and parents. We are going to be holding that regionally at Lynfield um, with the Middle Sex Essex Public Health Collaborative and we're calling it baby be bump baby and beyond. And I am doing a diaper donation at the um diaper donation drop off at town hall if you would like to donate. And as always, I have my
diabetes supplies takeback program and my medical supplies takeback program. Thank you. Thanks, Le, Dr. Lopez. Yes. Um, any final comments, ideas for future agenda items, suggestions. All right. Well, I guess we made up for the last meeting. Um, that was like 25 minutes. Okay. Uh, I'll
make a motion to adjurnn that in that case. Do I have a second? Second. Second. Roll call. Kevin, yes. Carrie, yes. Joan, yes. And Rick, yes. Thank you all for your service and we'll see you next month. Good night all. Bye. Thank you all. Good night. Good night. Bye.