phone on on the podium. It's uh it needs to be switched on. Okay. Um, start. Hello, this is Chuck Terrone, writings conservation administrator. This meeting will be conducted in person and remote format consistent with
chapter 2 of the acts of 2023 which further extend the CO 19 measures regarding remote participation in a public meeting until June 30th June 30th 2027. Please note that all items
not all items uh listed may be in fact discussed and other items not listed may be brought up for discussion to the extent permitted by law. agenda includes those matters which were reasonably anticipated to be discussed at this meeting. Please note that this meeting
is being recorded and that all materials for this meeting will be available are available at the conservation division page on the town website. Martha Moore is the vice chair of the conservation commission but in Brian Bose's absence she'll be
conducting and facilitating the meeting tonight. Uh please note there will be a public comment um session public comment period at the end of each hearing. Each vote will be uh taken during tonight's meeting be conducted by roll call and we
begin with roll call attendance and review of tonight's agenda. >> Okay. Um attendance um and this will be the order we vote in. Tim >> Michelle member present. >> Rick >> Rick member present. Walter
>> Walter Talbet, member present. >> And I'm Martha Moore, vice chair, present. And Joe >> Joseph Flurry, associate member present. >> Recording in progress. >> Okay. And our agenda for tonight is um the MBTA hearing, which will be
continued to the November 12th meeting. Then we'll talk about Zero Small Lane and 24 Dustin Road has also asked to continue to November 12th. And then we get to 400 Grove Street. That's a new
public hearing. And then we have two items we need to vote on. One is 1295 Main Street releasing the bond for that property. And 288 Grove Street. There is
a minor plan change request um at uh Metobrook Golf Course. Um after that there's a couple of enforcement issues and some um information with the administrator DPW monthly meeting etc.
And I believe we have not received any minutes to vote on for this meeting. >> No minutes. >> Okay. Okay. And we are starting at 7:05. Okay. So, the first hearing is the MBTA
and um that has been continued, but it looks like there are some people here that might want to speak. Um and so I will allow a very brief period for public comment. Um no, >> no. >> Um so, we're going to continue the
hearing. >> So, we had to vote on that first >> and let everyone know that we're not allowing any discussion for this hearing. So, we're going to continue that and then Joe Flurry is going to give his report and we decided that
maybe that's the time for public open comment at that point and so anyone can speak public. >> Yeah. Okay. Um so, first we need a motion to continue
the MBTA hearing to November 12th. >> That's you Walter. I thought I second things. >> No. >> Oh. >> Oh, you're moving today. >> I'm moving. Wow. >> Um, I move that we continue the MBT hearing till November 12th. >> To Michelle seconds to Michelle in
favor. >> Dio in favor. >> Alter Thomas in favor. >> Martha Moore in favor. Vote four to zero. In favor. Okay. And before we take Joe's um report, I just want to mention that we
got a letter from Brad Jones um handed to me. It was written to Mr. Riley. So there's a a letter that will be in our record. And also Brad Jones and Rick Heggerty wrote a letter to Phil, the
transportation, the secretary of transportation. So I have copies of those letters here. And um just so people know, on Monday, October 27th at 700 p.m. at Reading Memorial High School, there will be a special select
board meeting which will be all about the Reading Turnback Track proposal. So if anybody wants to have input, that's a great place to go for that input. Now Joe Flurry, >> you took most of my report. Sorry. >> No worries. So, um, yes. So, the Town of
Writing Select Board is going to be hosting a special public meeting on Monday, October 27th at 7 PM at the Reading Memorial High School Performing Arts Center. Um, this discussion is solely on the MBTA proposed turnback track project in Reading and its impact
to the community. Uh, there'll be members from the Reading Turnback Committee presenting, potentially the MBTA and I also the select board will be presenting. Um there will also be an opportunity for public comment. Um so we do encourage all residents to attend.
This is not just for abutters, it's for the entire town. Um and share their feedback at that time. Um, and then additionally, there's been several letters uh released today from Rich Hagerty and Brad Jones's office regarding the proposed location um and
their concerns as well as the um information published by the writing turnback committee on their concerns with this this proposal. So, um again, I would encourage everybody to attend the Monday meeting if possible to learn more about the project.
>> Thank you. So, any advice for the commission if they're intend to um they intend to attend that meeting? >> Um we need to um host it as a meeting for us if we're
going to have more than four of us there. Yeah. Is that correct? >> That's true. >> Okay. >> And we do have a active permit in front of us. So you got to be very careful about talking uh you know really open
meeting law it might you don't want to be in a position where it feels like you're talking about the application. So maybe just listening would be the best advice. Um that's what I would say but I'm not sure chair uh vice chair has any other
advice. >> I think that sounds like a good idea. Is it going to be broadcast broadcast or is it only in person? >> My understanding is that it's going to be broadcast like a select board meeting. I have not seen anything in the agenda. Um but I can double check.
Sounds like someone >> Yes, just via RCTV. >> RCTV YouTube channel. >> Zoom. >> Correct. There is no Zoom. Uh it's RCTV's YouTube channel. So public comment would have to be in person >> or sent via email. But if we're just
watching, we could watch it on RCTV and that won't issue >> create hassles with the open meeting law. >> That's true. >> Correct. >> Um actually Oh, you're going to post it. >> I'm going to post it anyways. Yeah. Just in case. We were advised by Jane to do
that. >> Okay. >> So, Jane and Matt, >> if you guys want to go, you are able to go because Chuck's going to post it as a meeting. But >> the advice is it starts at 7. and it overlaps by an hour with the
Eastern Gateway meeting at the library. >> So, unfortunately, we can't all be in two places at once. Okay. Um, so, so the advice is if you choose to go, we're not talking because we are talking in our
form, but we can go listen. >> Can we speak as a resident though? Like if it's not about the open NOI, but it's regarding other aspects of the proposal. Can we still speak >> as a question on that one?
>> Yeah, that's the advice I've uh got is yes, you can speak as a resident. >> Just have to make that clear. >> Okay. >> Because I don't want to dis like I don't want to discourage. I mean, it's clearly different between a resident that's talking about how the noise bothers them
and >> saying, "I received some information from the applicant, >> you know, and this is, you know, and tying that into your answer, >> right? That makes sense." >> Okay. All right. So, um, we don't have a
public comment for this hearing, but we are allowed to have a citizens open forum at every meeting. So, I'm going to allow about 10 minutes of citizens open forum, which um we're going to allow two minutes max per
speaker. So if anybody wants to speak um this is your chance and um Joe is going to be the timekeeper for us. Anybody interested in the room in speaking on any issues in particular
>> the specifically with the MBT >> uh citizens open forum could really be anything but I suspect that everybody's going to be talking about MBT Jim Riley. >> Yes. Go on up and state your name and
address, please. >> 87 Hancock Street, Ready. Uh, thank you for all being involved. I have just one question. Um, little over a week ago, the board of
health had a meeting and agreed that there needed to be an independent sound air quality study and was going to send a letter to the Con conservation commission to get their input on that. Has there been any
discussion or input and where is the stand? >> Um I believe they have asked us to hold off on voting on this issue until that study has been done. Is there more that I should say, Chuck?
Uh yeah, but they they they've asked they've suggested so they don't have any uh authority over the conservation commission, but they they've let us know that they're um uh they're doing a study
and um so I will let you know that we uh it seemed like we were going to work on it and put some uh put some ideas together. That happened this afternoon, right? Uh, and I assume it'll go out soon.
It's it's um and we'll see. I guess we'll see who uh who's going to do it. I can tell you that they are thinking of a shortterm turnaround for uh the people uh that want to be involved any any company that wants to be involved in
this information. So, a short turnaround. Um but I'm not sure what date that will be. >> I'll just add one thing and then I'll leave. Maybe not. But I won't leave. uh MEPA our team has been involved with MEPA and
they have responded saying there are documents state and federal documents they will issue and I think it's my belief that it's important that whatever this study is and agreed upon we should look at the
MEA documents that were provided specifically for the environmental justice independent living center area. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Anybody else in the room with comments or questions? >> Hi, good evening. Uh Lucas Prao, 85
Hancock Street. Um just once again, thank you for all that you guys do. Um and that's kind of the focus of my comment today. I'm kind of winging it tonight, so sorry. Um but as far as I've understood it, I believe out of Alistister mouth himself has said this
is a precedent where they plan to put the idling locomotive. So I urge you as a board for all the wonderful things that you guys did at the mallet location. It is just gorgeous. I was down there last week and it was beautiful. So if they can set a
precedent, I would recommend and I'm once again don't know if it's in your pre purview. All I ask is this board also attempt to set a precedent. That's all I ask. Thank you. >> Thank you.
Anybody else in the room? >> Linda Russo, 55 Hancock Street. Um the other night we were talking about the situation and we real I realized that the sound study was done with only one train but the idling train
but 28 times a day another train is going to come roaring by. So what good is a sound study with just one train and that train was only three or four dB below the limit that would make it. So
what how loud is that going to be when the other train goes by 28 times a day? I think it'll far exceed anything that's supposed to be allowed. So if they do a new study or if they don't do a new study, I think that has to be taken into
consideration how loud this will be for the residents when there's a train already idling and another train comes roaring by every 15 minutes, every 20, 30 minutes. However, it doesn't matter how many, it's still going to be extremely loud for the people.
>> Thank you. Thank you. >> Hi, Pat Crowley, 71 Vine Street. Um, we have been going up to Tannerville to um help them understand what's going on. And even today when we were up there, the anxiety and the fear of what's going
to happen with all these trains and they have certainly expressed to us that there are very there's a number of seriously involved people with ailments and other issues that require sleeping
during the day to recover from different um episodes situations they're going through. and they are having trouble now with the amount of trains. Now they live right on the tracks at the old turn
round turn whatever it's called. Um and >> roundhouse >> roundhouse thank you and they are very concerned that any increase is going to affect their health and they very much
want it down by the tracks. So just telling you their feelings. Thank you. >> We do need to keep our comments to things that are in the purview of conservation which is unfortunately not human health but wetlands.
Um is there anybody online who has asked to speak? Is there anybody else in the room who's looking to speak? >> I don't see any hand raised. >> Okay. And we are just almost at our 10-minute limit. So, everybody has spoken who needed to.
>> We can go more. >> No, no. I would love to get home before midnight this time. >> Okay. All right. Nobody else online has a hand raised. >> If you are trying to speak online, you
use the reaction button at the bottom of your Zoom screen and use the raise hand function. >> You just notification. Yeah, I think someone added a comment. I don't know if it was. >> Okay. All right. Um, we will Oh,
>> John K has his hand raised. >> John K. Hold on a second. And this will be our last public comment in this um open citiz citizens open forum and we'll move on to zero small lane now.
>> All right, John K, you can uh unmute. >> Perfect. Actually, I wanted to state this is not John K. Uh this is Margot Denoi. I live at 1137 Main Street, uh, but don't have my own, um, account,
so I'm I'm using that of my husband. Um, so my concerns are primarily that, uh, we we have a conservation area, um, again, that's governed by the the Wetlands Act, um, MSM, and then we have
the bird sanctuary. And these are super important locations um for the purpose of being able to mitigate climate change, for the purpose of being able to
lower climate um heat, for the purpose of being able to absorb carbon from the atmosphere, for the purpose of being able to reduce noise, for the um in order to assist uh with biodiversity or
support biodiversity. It seems to me that by placing um these uh diesel engines that are going to be spewing
oh benzene, formaldahhide, nitrogen oxides, carbon dioxides into the environment. It makes no sense right in the the midst of all of this. Um there was a very um good quote that and
an Andrew Finton or Andy Finton provided during an NPR interview with all can things considered when uh Governor Healey um passed or or signed off on her executive action back in September of 23
stating that it was imperative to be able to maintain biodiversity and how important that is the purpose of of of human health. Um and for you know climate um you know trying to to you
know help climate change or or or um support work against climate change. Um >> I know you can't hear the signal but your two minutes is up. Can you wrap it up very quickly please? >> Yeah absolutely. Is it possible? So I've
I've kind of made my point. makes no sense to go ahead and degrade an environmental area whose purpose to humans at this point is to go ahead and help sink carbon and clean the environment. What is the point of
putting more uh pollution, noise, air, heat, etc. into this environment when there are other environments that it could be put into? That was my one point. Second point is, is it possible? >> Sorry, your time is up. Okay, thank you.
>> Thank you. Come back to the next hearing if you need to speak more >> for Perfect. >> Yeah, all these all these MBTA questions are best to say uh when the applicants here because then the commission could actually address them. >> But we appreciate uh your input
>> and you can also go to the uh select board meeting on October 27th at 7 p.m. in the performing arts center at Reading Memorial High School. Okay, we need to move on to zero small lane. >> Is Jack online?
>> No, he's out. He's out in the office. >> He's out in the hall. Okay, >> thank you all for coming. shapes. >> Yeah, I ended up reading that uh that uh chat it just said from John K
that the noise would bother the animals also. Oh, >> hi Martha. >> Hi. Is Moren available to work with us? >> Yeah, I can start if she can join. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. So,
>> so I think you >> What do you want the plan or the >> Yeah, you put up the plan and >> and you got a microphone this time. >> Excellent. >> Thank you, commission members. For the record, Jack Sullivan, Sullivan Engineering Group, and I'm here with the
applicant, Joe Marino, and Marin Herald of Norse Environmental will be joining us in a little bit, but I wanted to come in front of the commission tonight and really just give an update. Um, we're going in front of CPDC November 3rd, uh, for our first hearing, and it was
important we met with you first to get feedback from you before we saw them. Also, last week I had a development review team meeting with the uh public works director. Chuck was there. Uh fire department. Um and we had a lasted about
an hour. We had a good conversation and it really centered around a couple small changes that we're going to try to make to the plan. And the small changes were based on feedback from our our first meeting with you guys. um specifically
the location of the culde-sac. Um so the fire department was they said we need a turnaround even though it's one house. Um Chuck and I tried saying what if we just sprinkler the house. Nope. They need the turnaround. It's public safety. And as we know small lane
right now dead ends. There's no turnaround. So by adding a turnaround not only for public safety but um the DPW director for said snow snow removal. They need some place to turn around. So, I didn't have time to do any sort of
redesign, but I'm looking at trying to either relocate the culde-sac to a better location or provide a hammerhead turnaround, which the fire department said they'd be open to discussing. And I'm going to try to
move it so that I'm, you know, I can possibly get outside like the 25 foot no disturb zone. Right now I have, you know, I'm inside of it, this retaining wall. So that was the big thing I think the commissioner Chuck that you guys brought up last time that you'd like to
see me try to, you know, you didn't want to feel like here's a design, you have to accept it if there's an alternative. So I'm going to look at an alternative. Um, so that that was the biggest thing that came out of the DRT meeting. It was a positive meeting. Um, everyone's had
seen the project before when it was going to be two homes. Um, they they were basically familiar with it, but basically the culde-sac redesign. But then for tonight, so that's an update there. And like I said, November 3rd, we'll be in front of the planning
board and um we'll get some feedback because as as I talked to you in the first meeting, there's a number of design waiverss we're looking for, dead-end road length, um width of the road, things like that. Um, I think they'll be received favorably, but haven't been in front of them yet. So,
um, we'll see. Um, but tonight there were two things I wanted to talk about. I know Brian's not here tonight, but I'm hoping we can have a good conversation on it. Um, one is the u the wetland fees for this project. Um so this came up in
the past when it was the two lot um development and as we know the roadway hasn't changed so the a lot of the impacts are the same even though it's one house um and when I did a calculation which I I provided if
on the screen >> yeah if you can put on the screen sure >> right um and I should say that Joe's looking to move to this property he lives in North Andover so he he's going to living here. So, you know, he's not looking to develop the property and sell
it. He's looking to basically move from North End over to Reading. Um, but if we add up the fees, and I I did a um I did I I filled out the the fee calculation forms showing how I arrived to the number, the total fee would be $47,248
for one house. That's for the roadway and the house in in the lot park. um which is cost prohibitive. If that was the case, Joe wouldn't even move forward with this. He wouldn't it would make no sense between the land cost, the cost to construct the road, the cost to
construct the house, and um it just he wouldn't even move forward with the project. Um so we had come in early to talk with Chuck about it. He said, "You can make a proposal to the commission." So that's what we're doing. So, we have a proposal of $15,710.50
and we'd be looking to split that between two two of the conservation funds. 7,800. We basically split that fee in half with $7,855.25 going to the reservation writing conservation fund to cover the wetland
bylaw fee. And then the second payment of the $7,85525 would be to the renting conservation tree fund for the removal of trees. And then I tried to step through it showing for this site in the roadway and the
single family lot there'd be 57 trees to be removed. Okay. In the rain garden, I'm planting in front of me. I'm planting six trees. So I I think I would be entitled to a one to one credit for that. And we have
37 shrubs. And in your tree removal policy, three um every three shrubs would equal one tree. So with 37 shrubs, that would be 12 trees. So that in the ring with six trees and then a equivalent of 12 trees
for the shrubs, I'd have 18. And then Joe would look to plant another eight trees um throughout the driveway in his build site. So I'd have total 57 trees removed, 18 tree credit for the rain garden, an eight tree credit for the
site. That would net 31 trees in total to be removed. And typically what the commission looks for is $250 a tree. So I did 31 trees times 250 equals $7,750. that can round up to the 7,85525.
Um, but what I was hoping to do first we have to see if that's agreeable to everyone. I the the total number of the 15,710 is still a pretty hefty number, but Joe was willing to do that. Uh but also we were hoping to pay
the check now to the reading conservation fund and then for the tree removal portion if for some reason this got denied and it didn't move forward then the trees would not come down so it wouldn't make sense to give that money
now. Joe would be fine with a condition like, you know, prior to a pre-onstruction meeting, prior to, you know, some sort of language in the order of conditions that that check would be credited. His concern is if he had to write both checks and it was 15,000 and
then for some reason this board or the CPDC denied the project, he's that's out of pocket. He doesn't get it back. It's non-refundable. So, that's a concern of his and he was upfront with me and I said that I'll make that presentation.
Obviously, it's up for discussion tonight. Um, but that that that's one of the big things I want to talk tonight about and that's why we had the meeting. Otherwise, I probably would have tabled this hearing till after the CPDC meeting, but this is a big enough topic that it it could take
a little time to talk it through. Can I just add uh the tree portion would be refundable if the trees never came down. But I think a condition would be once the uh if you got an approval and an
order of condition, I would say prior to signing the uh construction permit or clearing the site, we would we would we would solve this situation. And typically what happens is when you're when you're cutting down trees, there's
always something you didn't think of or another tree. >> Yeah. >> And so sometimes it's more than than we go in there with. That's what happened at a net lane, >> right? >> There's like 29 trees and became 36 trees,
>> right? And if if that's the case and some of the trees I pointed out, I don't know if like I show 57 if one's dead. I don't know if that counts in the 57, you know, >> trees don't count. >> Okay, dead trees don't count. So that might be something when you know one's dead, but he took one ext. You know,
we'll work that out, but I that would be fair, Chuck. I that would be acceptable. >> Do you have a planting plan for where the trees and the shrubs you're planting are going to go? I'll I'll add those to the plan. I I
have I haven't yet because I wanted to see where this would go, but I I will add those eight trees. Um they'd be within areas of 100 ft so that they'd be controlled. You know, if if they were outside your 100 foot buffer and you planted them, Joe could go take them
down and you'd have no >> nothing to say. So the eight trees we plant will be within a 100 foot buffer. So there'd be control in the future with the commission. And have you specified species for those trees yet?
>> Not yet, but I'm I'm open to ideas. >> Well, true natives to start with from Chuck's list on the website. >> I know you guys have a good list of native trees and shrubs, so I I can pick some off those. >> Um, does anybody else on the commission have questions or comments? Chuck, is it
possible to absorb the other $7,800 to the conservation knowing that what we know about the tree fund today? >> The uh so there's uh it's like it looks like it's split in half and which one are you talking about? The one that's
>> talk about the tree fun because that doesn't go to conservation I thought. Right. >> The tree fund does go to conservation >> does. Okay. >> Yeah. So we would be able to So what so what is happening here is the applicant is saying I can't like we want
we want tree for tree >> and we're doing shrubs for tree. It's not really equivalent. This gives the conservation commission an opportunity to plant real trees somewhere else in town and it's up to the conservation
commission to plant them in >> spots. So that's where I'm probably getting the two mixed up. >> Yeah. and the other one was supposedly a uh just a uh request to lower the fees, but the the background on that number
and I'm sure this number comes out to close to uh the town council uh uh says that all the all the work um all the work on a site has to be
equivalent to my salary how much how much it would cost the town for me to go out there and review the site. And that's part of this review now and then the future review of uh just administrating all our the order of conditions and that number came out to
generally around this area. This is a different project than the town council talked to about there was that project didn't have the houses involved. So, this is substantially further along than that other discussion, but it's in the
same ballpark. Um, I hope that answers your questions. I'm I'm not saying that we're um allowed to reduce the bylaw fee, but we have been told by town council
that these numbers are too high. And I think Jack was working with what town council asked um them to to work with. Uh you know, why the fees are that high is a is is a long story. Um uh
and I think that we're thinking about opening up our uh our regulations anyways to talk about the fees. Some obviously will go up and some will go down. So I hope I answered your question. I just
want to make sure I understand. So that does answer my question. So based on your calculation, $47,000 would be the fee for today, but you're proposing your reduced fee of 15 with the two split payments. >> Yes. >> Yeah.
>> Back off that. Um was anything paid for the previous proposal? >> Like when this was first proposed with two houses, was collected already? was collected >> and the work that were the reviews that are happening. I know a lot of the plans
they still have to be duplicated. There's updates to be made from the previous plan, but a lot of that work had already taken place for the first proposal. Does that have any bearing in this conversation? Because >> I I it sounds like, you know, it would,
but in my experience, it doesn't. every it each project stands on their its own like DP doesn't say ah this is the third time this has come in so >> we don't have to pay a fee this time now the fees are the fees for it's a different applicant
>> um so the fees are the fees >> and then to clarif >> it does make sense I mean I understand what you're saying >> yeah that's where if it's a different applicant then it's a different process um the other question is so for the trees removed at 250 we're not talking about the volunt
shade tree fund. Correct. This is a separate. So the individual homeowner cabinet 500 is different than this. The shade tree fund is run through the DPW department and the uh
this conservation fund I think we are still allowed to do or it's still an option >> on when they do the online permit but it's it's not going to be an option.
Yeah, that just because I'm I'm looking at the tree replacement policy and that's where this is being called out. It doesn't have that calculation included, the 250 for the maximum number of trees for individual homeowners. So, it says like voluntary shade tree fund contributions will be a minimum of 250
maximum amount of 500 for applicants who are individual homeowners. But new subdivisions and commercial uses, it's minimum 250 maximum amount would be set at the commission's discretion. So, is that a separate the of that. >> It's the tree town of Reading,
Massachusetts Conservation Commission tree replacement policy from March. >> So, our tree replacement policy is for trees for one to four trees. >> Okay. >> When you're when you're uh when you come in with a notice of intent, >> the commission can use it as guidance. I
was going to listen to Rick where you said, "Oh, dead trees are not counted." That's that's not true. and a notice of intent. It's up to the conservation commission how they want to keep the environment safe. And they could say,
"We don't accept this at all. We want 57 trees replanted." It's it's up to you. We do have a tree policy, so it kind of, you know, gets you in the in the ballpark, but you're not required to do anything under that policy because this
is a notice of inent. You have to have four less trees. to be in the policy >> based off your experience is would you consider this 157 reasonable >> and I I was trying to say the 15,000
whatever that is pretty much what town council >> wants as a full package of fees >> and so how it's split up I believe that would be up to the conservation commission >> and Joe if I can add you brought up a
good point I didn't mention it because it's not this applicant but on the another project. The fees had been paid. It was a reduced amount, too, but I think it was close to $30,000. >> Okay. >> And it wasn't the same. >> No, it wasn't. You didn't pay. >> But was it 20?
>> I believe it was very Well, it might have been I don't know the exact number. I thought it was this number because I looked it up when you we first talked months and months ago. Okay. >> That they paid for consultants. So, he paid for all the consultants and that might have driven it up.
>> Okay. That was the case. Yeah. But it's a separate application this time. But >> right, understandable. >> Any questions from the commission? >> I'll just say one additional question. Is this a typical split that we would see? Is there like what what would kind
of drive a split of 5050 and how would I guess this is my inexperience you're asking? >> We don't have a chart on in the regulations. This is this is from the applicant. They're saying this is what they'd like to do and they're trying to get permission to say yes by
saying this is how they'll split it. >> So, but in terms like in terms of the conservation tree fund then that's our discretion for where those trees could be placed elsewhere in the community or is that still at the direct discretion of the DPW? >> No, has nothing to do with the DPW. They
can only go on conservation land. >> Okay. >> That we that we own. So even if it's jurisdictional wetland on someone else's property that that's not where we can plant. It has to be owned by the conservation commission. >> Wet or dry we could plant there with this.
>> Does that lock up the funds then exclusively for tree usage? So for example, if we went with a 7525 splint for the conservation fund, does that open up the usage of those funds for something else other than tree planting? One to one. >> The way this is written 70. So, it says
trees and it's directly equated to $7,750. Whatever the difference is, could be used for conservation purposes anywhere else because they're intending to write a check for $7,855. So, it's not it's like a hundred bucks, whatever.
>> It's like 100 bucks. So, that $100 could be used for conservation purposes anywhere. This is locked in to tree uh you know, for tree uh uh replacement or
evaluation, other things that have to do with trees. >> So, we could use it at S Morgan. We could use it at Pineville, we could use it at Bare Meadow. >> Yeah. And you could also look at this and and say that those numbers don't work and come back with a counter offer
uh with this. I I would think if if the council is okay with this and it's reasonable, I support it, but maybe I'd like to see a little bit higher number to the rein conservation fund. I think to help out
the department to maybe do like I don't know, Chuck, what do you think? 10 $11,000 the read and conservation fund and whatever's left over go to the tree fund. Would that help? Um,
so what I'm what I know about this is I I think it all has to add up to $15,710. >> So, but we don't have to go through this tonight. It sounds like I know the commission just got this. Sounds like you wanted to know if we're in the
ballpark. It sounds like we're we're in the ballpark. >> Brian's not here. When we did our prep meeting, he had some comments. >> Y >> he wasn't going to zoom in from I don't know where this, you know, tonight for this just for this meeting. um if you
came back and we could um discuss this and and members can give me their comments. But um to answer your other question, town council didn't see this particular request, but their guidance over the past has been
those two numbers is like whatever the temporary and permanent alteration within the 35 foot and the 25 foot area. Those fees are too high. And so they mentioned uh fees more like um
Burlington and Burlington's fees are around 50 cents. So uh there there's more to it. I think Reading's more complicated than Burlington. When we talk about our keys, we get our fees. We'll get into all the how does this work for small projects.
But um that was town council's um advice when the first uh applicant came in about this project. >> And I don't know that we really can move money from the tree side to the just
conservation fund side because the tree number comes from the 31 trees. So the 7,750 is based on the net trees removed from
this property. And so that money really has to go to build trees to plant trees. >> And and remember it's not a big number and I don't know the number on top of my head, but when we filed with the state, there was a state fee and a town fee
that was paid. This is additional, >> but I know that's not a big number and I don't know where that money goes to in your funds, but we had a check payable to the town of Reading, you know, might have been $1,500 or $2,000. I don't know. Something like that. And I don't
know where that goes in your funding. >> I'm not sure either. >> Okay. Um, I do have a letter from Pam Merrill from D with a bunch of information on it. You saw her letter. >> We did. Can we finish up with the trees for itself? >> Yeah,
>> I thought we were. >> Sorry. >> Uh I don't know. Does anyone else have anything else to say? I I >> Do you have something else to say? >> Yeah, I I also don't like how this is broken up. And um I
I you know I think that um it's an interesting it's it's interesting. I I understand it. But, you know, uh, the conservation commission is not a bank or we're not
supposed to look at that kind of stuff. Um, not supposed to care about money and whatnot. I think it's important to try to they can't replace trees on the property. They should be replaced somewhere else if that's the final resort. But uh I think this is important
to get these numbers right and um and then to see a planting plan too because I'm not sure that we can say oh well you know all this all this uh information makes a lot of sense without knowing
where it's exactly going to be planted. So >> well we know we know the rain garden that we do have a planting plan for that. So all those numbers I took in that summary are taken right from the plan sheet that you guys have. The eight trees I do have to show those. I agree
we check there. But as far as a planting plan, we did have a detailed planting plan for the rain garden. >> Yeah, >> but you're right. I do need to show the other eight trees and I love >> I think the the rain garden. So then the replacement, right? So you're you're
creating um you're destroying wetland and you're creating wetland. Is any part of that the rain garden? >> My point is that if we're destroying uh or using portion of the wetlands to do the crossing and then we have to do a
replication, half of that replication, if it's 2 to one was existing. And if you're just replacing whatever that is in that half, maybe that shouldn't be counted. >> Um, >> we are we are replacing it greater than
a 2 to1 ratio. And I mean to be honest, where the crossing is, where that pipe is, it's tilted in. It's not even a functioning. I know we're counting that as part of our area, but it's pretty marginal. But
we are we are replacing it at greater than 2:1 ratio. I mean, if we think there's an opportunity to do some other trees and bring that number down, we talk about that, too. But I think he should get a credit for the rain garden plantings
because I could, you know, I'm I'm we're doing wetland replication. I could do a wetland mix and leave it at that and just let it grow out over time, but he's actually going to be spending money on trees and shrubs. That's a cost to him.
So I think he should get a credit for that in my opinion. >> So when you say rain garden, you're referring to the triangular wetland replication that's on >> I should be saying wetland replication area. It's not truly a rain garden, but it's going to kind of function as a rain
garden right on that page. Yeah. >> And you say what you're what you're replacing is a silted in area with a um >> functioning more functioning high value wetland.
>> I think so. >> In that area where we're doing the replication, remember there was like a um a stone fireplace. It had been like a it had been disturbed in the past. There was some sort of old foundation in that area. I I think this will have more of a
value after we planted. It'll be more more valuable. But I do think we to get credit for the plantings because he does have to spend money. >> Something um just one thing to keep in
mind is we're only disturbing a fraction of the entire piece of land that we'd like to put one house on. I mean, this is a over a 10 acre parcel. So, you know, we're disturbing really the
minimal amount that we can possibly disturb to put the roadway in and build one house and then implement drainage for the roadway. Most of this land is going to remain wooden and not touched. So, I don't know if that's something the
commission can possibly take into consideration. >> And before you sit down, can you just identify yourself? >> Moren Harold, Norris Environmental Services. Sure. So, I get the impression that we're heading in the right direction,
>> but I think we do want to see where the other trees you're planning to plant are. Are they going to be along the roadway? Are they going to be up in the detention basin? >> Yeah. Um, and you know that would be an important factor.
And I guess my one question about the wetland replication site is um like does that count as double dipping when you're counting those trees for
your tree replacement and also counting them for your replication of the wetland that you're filling? And um I'm not sure how that works and I would have to look and see how many trees are in the part
you're filling that you're now putting the replication together. >> Okay. >> Bigger, but I haven't counted the trees in the two places. Um so can I go on to other questions
now? this. >> Yeah. I just wanted to make clear that I I don't think that this is resolved. >> No, I don't think it's resolved, but I think >> I don't think he's expecting to pay 47,000 either.
>> So, we can resolve it at our next meeting >> once we get the tree plan. We're certainly well below the 47, but how that 15 or if it turns into 20 or if it turns into 15 with definitely
20 trees being planted, then you know that's the part that I'm talking about. So that's why we needed to and those are just examples. Don't get worried about that. That's when we need the ve the vegetation plan so we can see what's going on. So that's and make comments
about that. All right. >> Everybody else comfortable with that >> generally? >> Okay. Um, so when you come back, you're also going to come back with an answer to the issues she had >> in this letter, right?
>> Yep. So from the letter that Martha's that's from D, we did receive a D file number. We got a laundry list of comments from D, which I was shocked by, but I usually don't see that. You know, there might be one comment, but um those
are the comments we'll work through. >> Yeah. Yeah, she had a big list. >> Yeah, I was surprised. >> Any any comments prepared for tonight about that? >> I don't have any. Do you worry? >> No, I wanted to, you know, address it
formally and provide it to the commission for review and discussion. So, just haven't had the opportunity. >> Okay. >> That was sent out to the conservation commission and the applicant and I'm not sure I mean I talked to Moren
about this and asked if how often Pam reaches out about this kind of stuff and you know occasionally she does uh and you know here's here's the comments uh that they made and
do Moren do you know when you'll be able to address these and then come back to the commission understanding that our distribution deadline is like next Thursday. No, wait a minute. It's the following Thursday. >> So, we have >> two weeks. >> Two weeks.
>> Do you want to We got to do plan changes, too, Jack. >> Yeah, we got um >> Yeah. And just remember, we only have one November meeting and one December meeting. >> Oh, really? >> And we have to hold November meetings. Joe's under a pretty tight timet on
this, so I'd like to keep trying to move along. If we had to continue, we will, but I'd like to ask that we have the November meeting. >> Okay. Um, and I just had a couple of other questions. You talked about trying to make the culde-sac into a hammerhead
to reduce the pavement area. >> Y, >> and you talked about trying to push it back so it's out of the 25 foot line. >> Um, >> I'd love to see if you can get CPDC to budge on the width of the roadway and make it as narrow as possible.
>> We tried that at DRT. Yeah. No, no. Go. >> Well, I mean, the DPW director was there and um they said they need that for plowing. >> Okay. >> Uh but I I will bring it up with CPDC. I I I'll ask a question because if I can reduce pavement, that helps me too.
>> Yeah. And also how we can make sure that we're not pushing the snow into those wetlands when we're so close to the wetland line. >> We had talks with the because the town's going to still plow it. It's funny though, and Chuck will remember this. I
said, "Yeah, you know, the town requirement is 30 feet of pavement. We're going to request a waiver down to 24. I had tried 22 a number of years ago." And the fire department goes, "Oh, we'd like 28." I go, "We're going the wrong way." So, um I I I think everyone
will be comfortable with 24, but I'll try to get it I'll try to get see if I can get it reduced. I think the commission member who was really pushing for putting one house in and not two was thinking that if we put one house in, we could get a narrower driveway. Right.
>> So, yeah. >> Okay. Um, yeah. So, I think that's all we really need to talk about tonight. Is there anybody on Zoom who's not in the room who has comments? And somebody in the room has comments. Okay. And I still had
one more thing too, but whatever order you want. >> While he's looking on Zoom, remember, use the reaction button and the raise hand function. Can I call on the person here? >> Yes. Um, you have to get up to the >> I would love to. >> Waiting for him to go.
>> Oh, thank you. >> Okay. >> Um, I called in last week. My name is Christina Ladani. I'm at 17 Small Lane. I'm the current owner. My mother sold me the house. It's been in the family since it was built by Mr. small. Um, so my concerns, um, I do have a few, so please
give me a time limit. Give me the 10 that the other guys had before. And by the way, I love your shirt. Um, very good for the Conservation Commission having fish on your shirt. Um, you don't love my birds. >> Let me see. >> Oh, come on now. All right. Anybody
else? Under. So, um, funnily enough, you brought up the, um, what was it called? The, uh, the hammer turnaround. Last year when 22 Small Lane was asking for additional land, um, from the Hammerhead
Turnaround, uh, so they can have their driveway a little bit bigger. And we were here for that committee meeting, and we approved of it. There was someone on the committee that did not like the hammerhead. I remember they're like, "Uh, no, don't like the hammerhead. It's not a good idea." Was that you? Um, I
remember the hammerhead was something that was frowned upon and not I'm not sure, Walter. I think it was you that said you didn't like the hammerhead ter. So, I'm surprised that's even brought up because um that's something that was poo pooed uh for the 22 small lane to add on
to their their driveway. Um so, oh, I took my glasses. Okay. Um also, um let's see. I I do have a couple things. So, um, the replanting of the trees, it would be great if it could be more in the area than not, just so we could keep
that saturation that I brought up on the Zoom last time. Um, I'm concerned about the water pump um that was uh brushed over really quickly that was just installed for the three houses on that lane and you did mention that it's it is ready to go for another full family of
but we didn't give you like information exactly on that. I I would really like to see if we can get a survey on that pump um and see if it can handle also the sewage coming in from another house. Um that would be grand. Um let's see.
Will there be any street damage to the um during the construction? Are you going to add on to small lane, car it over, that kind of thing? Because there will be a lot of construction. When 22 um was redoing their house, there was a lot of damage put on the existing street itself, and that's that's a concern. um
along with the uh the greenery that was around it and on the end too. So there was a lot of damage to the trees around there. Um let's see. And oh, also this is really interesting. Could you bring up the uh the plan of uh
of Small Lane in the in the area since I did grow up there and we're talking about the uh the water flow coming from my backyard and then we're going to have that uh 10-in uh trench uh the waterway going through. Let's
see. Yeah. How about the one with the uh the water the color? >> Yep. So, >> sure. Is that up or down? Oh, >> you can squish it. So bring it over a little bit and okay so you're 17. So the water
comes and flows through here. Here's going to be the drain. Now when I was young the water go flew flow through here and into um a waterway going here next to 22. Now that was what 40 years ago the water was flowing. I remember it
was flowing and you as a kid you go down there and you're, you know, playing around and it would never ice over because it was flowing. Now I'm wondering if there's going to be more water coming down and now this, you know, the waterway which is, you know, advanced and there's a lot more rain,
um, will this start flooding the land over there on 22's side and kind of make it bigger and flood over that part of the land that, you know, the wetlands over there. So, there was there was a constant flow and since we're going to
have more water coming down and snow and whatnot, um I'm concerned that there's going to be kind of water building up on the side and flooding for 22, which is not good, but also just flooding. So, that was something too. I'm not sure if
you looked into that. I can talk. >> All right. So, but thank you very much for all of this. I really appreciate it. All right. Thanks, Just to hit to that last item and um
I thought when the drain is silted in I were you having problems flooding in your backyard? >> Yes. >> Okay. So that's been brought up a number of times over the years and by adding this drainage that's going to alleviate the flooding in your backyard. And we're
taking our road drainage and the house drainage and we're putting it into a um a basin out back and we're managing the um you you design on different storm events for for different periods and I submit a very detailed report showing I
need to reduce uh the volume and and rates of runoff on this site which I am but it will help. One of the concerns was the flooding in your backyard >> because I think Yeah. So would that that'll help because that pipe silted in. That's why again flooded.
>> Well, it wasn't just my backyard. It's the surrounding land as well too that's going to be, you know, affected. We do have a lot of nature and wildlife, deer, and all that kind of stuff, too. >> Yeah. >> And some of your questions will be answered with the planning board as well. And I will look into the sore pump
station. I haven't had time to talk to the town engineer, but I made a note to myself to check that. >> When when he uh when Ryan answers that question, could we did a memo with that on it. >> Y >> So, uh just to go back to that, uh culvert. So, that culvert's like eight
or 10 inches existing. >> It's like a 12 inch. >> It's like 12 inch and it's silted in. >> Silted in. >> And what we're doing here is we're spanning 18 feet. >> Correct. >> So, I don't know how many times bigger
that is, but I I think that would uh more than adequately handle any surge that would happen. But Jack's also letting you know that he's not allowed to do that. He has to maintain the existing runoff on the site. He can't
increase that, but he can decrease it. And so in a an unusual way to think about it, that this could be benefiting you um by having this storm water in this house being put in because they have to bring
property up to date um with the current storm water st standards. And they're doing a stream crossing standards too. And that's why um we've gone from 12 in to 18 18 feet is just incredibly
uh expanded over what was there considering also that it was silted up. So I don't know, you know, obviously the water went up against the bank and then pushed back into your yard and that's going to be fixed up. So that's that's
not going to happen anymore. >> Um and Just a quick question. Does that get serviced? Is it like who's going to oversee that? >> So, there should be an operation and maintenance plan that that would be part of. We've done that before um in town
road. There was a a culvert on site that the owner had to maintain uh by just making sure there were no sticks that built up in it. So, there wasn't anything being blocked. So we have an existing condition about that
which could be added to this project or or something different that the commission comes up with. So that that could happen. >> And Jack, you said you had one more thing >> and I I touched on it and where Brian's not here, but I still want to bring it up
and we can make a decision where we want to go on it. But um one of the questions we had been peer reviewed on the previous application when it was two houses and I at our first meeting I talked about how the road hasn't changed the drainage system hasn't changed and
the previous peer reviews were le did a wetland uh peer review and then >> Janet Bernado >> yeah did the storm water and we went through three rounds of each and we were on the home stretch mention there was
some bookkeeping to do. >> Shannon said her storm water was complete. >> Okay, >> that's what I remember that that she wasn't >> right. I think the storm water was complete and then there was just some loose ends on um the culvert and how we're going to do that and Marin's going to address that. But I want to get a
sense from the commission. We're obviously hoping we don't have to go through a peer review since it was extensive the last time and it's substantially the same design. But I wanted to see what your thoughts were on that. Anybody
on the commission have comments? >> I'm not on the commission. I'd like to make a comment. >> I will call on you next. >> I would just say I don't think you have enough material in front of us to make that decision. We'd like to see Moren's answers to Pam's questions. And I think
that would be the more appropriate time to uh ask or pull the commission to see if they're comfortable with the crossing, if there's anything missing. and and if they need peer review, but right now without knowing
your reply. I don't know if Pam will reply, but uh that would be great if she did because that's kind of a peer review in itself. Um but I think maybe at the next meeting when that gets taken care of and the commission have a chance to that would be a more appropriate spot to
ask. Um in my opinion, we are pretty far down the road. I think it was just uh I was asking about pebble counts and Moren was Moren was uh thinking about
her answer. Um so we were deep into like things that may not matter to other people. Um but you know I'm not sure that we've had enough discussion about you know we have all new members so except for
so maybe to describe you know, going through that at the next meeting, too, and and what we're what it's what it's all about. So, they'll understand exactly how much um how much better, more better. Might as well mess
up the entire thing, the entire sentence. >> The challenging aspect of that suggestion is that you meet one time in November and one time in December. Um, so if it's decided in November that the
commission votes to send it out to peer review, well, we lose that month. We lose the following month. So that's why we were just hoping to get a direction tonight from the commission. if you think that might be appropriate at this
time. I understand, you know, Chuck's concerned about the additional information that will come in front of the commission, but I think we want a direction tonight if we can get it. >> Chuck, was it recorded then? >> Yeah. Yeah, it's recorded.
>> Would you be able to find the peer review of when they were up front here at the mic for us to to listen and watch those of us that weren't there? >> Yeah, you could. You could look back and you could look at the recording and you know we could put up some of the
information on the website also at least LAC's notes that's for sure we could we could do all that but again this is this is something we want to be level and even with
everyone right so um you know I kind of said it at the last meeting but you know we're we're looking at M the MBTA and we're asking for documentation before we make a decision. This is very similar to
that same request. Um I understand that we only have a couple of meetings but you know and we're not in control of your schedule and our schedule has been posted for a year and so my answer
it has to be you know that's our schedule. I mean I think CPDC they're like five months, something like that. >> We understand your point of view, but I guess we're kind of looking for the commission if if you feel comfortable
um right now deciding if that's appropriate or if you want to wait till next month. Well, Rick wanted to think about being able to watch the video, and it looks to me like
September 2023 was a date for this. So, you could look at the the minutes. I would start with the minutes before you start looking for the video and see. But that's the the ballpark was sort of when when we were almost done and then they
withdrew without prejudice. So you're in in that neighborhood of looking at the the posted minutes to see when the meetings were. Um Chuck is saying he wants to see how you've answered the letter from Pam
Merrill. Um, >> I'm just I'm just saying, >> yeah, >> don't lock yourself in, right? I mean, it's unfair that they're even asking, >> right? Yeah. >> So, it doesn't make any sense to me that they're trying to get you to take away one of the arrows in your quiver. You
know, these are all the tools the Conservation Commission uses. I wouldn't I wouldn't tell them. And I and if you did tell them, I would say, "Hey, like tonight, this is what it looks like." But we uh we will definitely change our mind if we feel like we need that. That's the only way I
would agree. >> That being said, >> I think to be fair, we had two car we had drainage and wetland. >> Sounds like drainage, like Chuck just said, that had been completed. I'm not changing anything with my drainage system.
>> Yeah, I don't think we're not talking about drainage. >> Okay, so drainage is out. So, we could at least say we don't need peer review on drainage. I don't think that's being unfair asking that. Well, but isn't Pam Merrill asking you to the project does
not meet storm water standards? A detention basin cannot be used to meet standard three and the treatment train must be redesigned to meet the standards fully. >> To her, but she's wrong. >> I mean, we were peer review. We had we
went through extensive stuff. I you can use a detention basin to meet groundwater recharge. So I think I need to hear how you address all these issues that um Pam
talks about, right? >> Um discussing how the bank will be restored. Um implement implementation of quarreal logs and plugs and compatible stream bed substrate. Um
why is your thing 41 feet long? You know, she's got this huge list of questions >> which I was surprised at because we have 24 feet of pavement, six inch curb, so that's 25. We have three foot shoulders and then 2 and 1/2t wide retaining walls
on each side. It equals 41. So some some of these comments I'm going to respond to. >> Um, and some were just bookkeeping, but it was more detailed than I've ever seen in a response from D, but we'll respond to it. >> Yeah, I agree. But they didn't respond.
>> But they did respond. So we have to answer it, which pretty we will. >> Okay. Um >> I'm sorry we don't have a more concrete answer for you, but >> I just wanted to bring up the discussion point and we had a discussion on it. So thank you. >> Okay.
>> Yeah. >> Are we all set? And um would you allow us to vote to continue to the November 12th meeting? >> Yes, please. >> Okay. moves that we continue discussion of
zero small lane to November 12th. >> Michelle second in favor in favor in >> favor in f. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. Thanks. Thanks. >> Next one is 24 Dustin Road. They have
asked to continue. So I need a motion to continue 24 Dustin Road. >> Talbert moves that we continue 24 Dustin Road to November 12th. Michelle >> second in favor
in favor in favor. >> Okay. Is there anybody here for 400 G Street? Think here for that. >> Yep. >> You need a minute. >> Let me read the blurb. I have been lax
about that, but this is a new hearing. So, I'm going to open the hearing on a notice of intent filed by Katherine and Julian Hickman pursuant to Massachusetts General Law, Chapter 131, Section 40, the Wetlands Protection Act, andor the
Reading Wetland Protection bylaw, Section 7.1, for installation of an ingground pool, pool patio, equipment area, landscape wall, fencing, drainage area, associated grading, and utilities
within within the buffer zone to a bordering vegetated wetland. The application and plans can be viewed on conservation division page under current project assessors map 43 lot 15.
It looks like we do not have a file number on this one yet. >> I can check but uh >> no we do. with um 270806 and as of right now no comments. >> Okay, thank you. And um can you walk us
through the project please? >> Sure. Moren Heralds North Environmental Services. Um, as the chairwoman had stated, I filed a notice of intent with the commission um to construct and install an ingground swimming pool um
patio equipment area, landscape wall, fencing, drainage, and associated grading and utilities. Um the project meets the 25 foot no disturbance zone um and the 35
foot no build. Um the wall is proposed along 35 foot. The pool itself is proposed within an area of lawn. Um so no trees will need to be cut or removed as part of the proposal. Um,
as you can tell from looking at the plan, we're very limited in terms of where we can put a pool on this property. Um, but we were able to squeeze the pool in and meet the setbacks
and I can open it up to the commission with any questions. >> Um, anybody want to comment on our site visit? Walter? >> Yeah. You said no trees are going to be. There's a tree
pretty much where the equipment looks like it's going to go. >> Okay. So, one tree. >> Yeah. One small ornamental >> small one there. >> Okay. >> And then there's a the risk of leaves coming down from trees further away
exists. So, are these trees coming down as well? >> No. So, so the so thank you for correcting me. the one tree will be part of the proposal. I didn't realize that um that was where the equipment area is
because it's not shown on the plan. Um but we'd like to maintain that 35 foot buffer that the commission likes to see. >> Uh the other thing is there's a plastic
buffer. Um, look at the patio head and down pretty much along the uh 78 foot I mean I'm reading that incorrectly. The 77 foot line.
>> Okay. >> Uh, what is that plastic cover? >> I don't know. I can check with the homeowners. It might just be Do you think it might be an irrigation uh cover? I I can find out. It's while it
doesn't show up on the plan, it's dangerously close to some of these critical lines. >> Okay. >> So, I don't know where it's going, where it's coming from. >> You know, we wondered if it was an irrigation. It's like about this big
around and green. It sounds like it might be just >> control valve. It says control valve. >> Sprinkler, >> right? that sprinkler, >> but I can certainly verify that with my own. >> And then the sprinklers, are they far
away enough they located? >> I don't know where the sprinklers are located. I'm I'm not sure it's relevant to this filing. Um where the pool is being proposed in the lawn, if
the irrigation system is there, it's going to be needs it'll need to be torn up to get pool in and re-established. Since it didn't show up on the diagram, I was concerned that the lawn is within the 35 foot.
>> I don't so I don't have a tree line on my plant unfortunately for me. So I can't tell you what the extent of the lawn area is by looking at this plan. I know with other projects that had swimming pools, we've also looked for
like crush stone around the edges perhaps around the equipment in case there's any overflow it gets dissipated better. >> That is an option we can possibly incorporate. Um we are proposing a dry
well for the impervious area. So that's just another method to incorporate infiltration. So you could do the crushed stone or you could run it into a system that's underground into a drywall >> some system that if there was an
overflow not worried about it going towards the wetlands. >> Okay, >> that's that's what I had. >> Okay, >> just to go back to your point. So there is that one tree that's like right on the 35 foot no disturb that is going to
effectively hang over where the pool is being proposed. So you know in terms of leaf management I'm assuming it's an ingground pool it'll have a cover on it but during the fall saw there's going to be a lot of leaves falling down in there. That tree also leans beyond the
35 foot towards the property. Um it's not marked on this map, but will the homeowner have any intent to, you know, after a year once this is approved or if it's approved, um to chop down that tree near the 35 foot, you know, due to convenience purposes or
>> let me verify that with the homeowner. That's a good point to bring up. So I can find out whether they want to remove the tree or maybe maybe it just needs to be trimmed, the branches, and that might solve the problem. But let me check with the order to see if they have >> it's a big
>> we we eyeballed it and it was roughly I think pretty much the two/ird of the length of the pool but yeah it would be good to confirm and then in terms of like the storage of construction materials etc. How do they intend to access uh the property um for this
project? So, the driveway is off of Family Circle. >> Um, I'll have to get back to you on that. It It makes sense to me in terms of temporary stockpiling to possibly put it
on the driveway. That way, you won't have anything running off because it'll be on a pous um imperous surface. Um, but I'm not sure if they use it their garage every day, if they park their cars in there, if they're willing to not
use it during the construction period. So, um, let me check with them on that. But I'm assuming the access will be, you know, beside the driveway with the trucks and that type of things for the equipment. >> So, I think and I think there's also
erosion control maps um that's along the retaining wall if I'm not mistaken. Is that going to be also during construction? Yes. >> Um and then just one other observation. So again, ingground pool. Um does the applicant intend to like drain that pool
every season? If so, how will that be? Is there like an operations plan or anything how that will be drained? Can it check this might be for you? Is it going to drain into the wetlands for example? Is that allowed or how do they intend to to drain the pool for
maintenance etc? So, I've never had a pool growing up, but my understanding is that you need to drain the pool prior to closing it up for winter time. >> Six inches or so. >> The skimmer. There's not a not a lot. You don't drain it out every year. You only drain just below the skimmer.
>> And like the chlorine mix that can >> Yeah, very minimal. I mean, like I said, you only drain it just below the pipes that would feed it. >> And you wait till a couple of weeks after you last chlorinate before you take that water out. So you're not dumping chlorine water.
>> Sure. There's there's actual D guidance on that and so we usually ask for a m operation maintenance plan on that which is basically incorporating the D guidance. >> We can we I can provide that to the commission. That's not a problem. A lot
of as MA said a lot of people wait from the last treatment like two weeks let's say and then they run it over across the >> chlorinated pool salt water like you know what they're going to do because that'll be of the plan. >> That's a good question. I need
>> It's all the different plan, >> right? Um, we'll find out. >> That was my last >> Tim or Rick, did you guys have any questions?
>> Okay. Um, and I apologize. I think uh we did not coordinate who was going to send a report from our site visit on Monday. So, we're talking now, but nobody wrote a little email. Often Brian does it and he was
getting on a plane, so I failed to fill his shoes in that way. Um, what I noticed was that we have a beautifully maintained landscaped yard and then we have the um, no disturb zone
with the natural vegetation that has been filled with a lot of yard waste. And in the area where the yard waste is, it has grown up into a bunch of um, invasive species. We saw buckthornne out
there. We saw tree of heaven. Um we saw bittersweet. We saw Japanese knotweed. And the yard waste is not just in one pile, but it's kind of all the way along that um wetland buffer zone. So um I
think we normally ask people who are presenting projects to remove down to the place where the leaves have started decomposing. take off the top layers of leaves. Um, but also I think they really
ought to um do some work to uh remove the invasive species that have come up as a result of piling up the yard waste back there. >> All of the invasives that you mentioned or
you know because I like glossy buckthon absolutely right. It's invasive. It's everywhere. Every piece of land that I flag is glossy >> background. >> It's practically native. I feel like because it's been here for so long. Um
but the Japanese notweed, terrible plant. I agree. We should remove it. The bittersweet, we should remove it. Um tree of heaven. I I I don't know. So, I I don't know if you're talking about every single
species or just target the worst ones to to to give it a shot. >> Um, I only saw one tree of heaven and it was growing up pretty close to their landscaped garden area.
>> So, I would say it would be worth trying to get rid of that one before it gets bigger than it is, >> okay, >> and becomes more of a problem. Um, and definitely the Japanese knotweed. And you know, I really don't want the bittersweet killing all the trees in
that area. >> Um, you know, I'd like to see the the buckthornne also worked on, but um, but buckthornne's tough because you can cut it down and it respouts. I have it in my yard.
>> Yep. >> Um, and it's it's everywhere. It's every piece of land in in the Marramac Valley it's on. I can't think of one that it isn't. >> Yeah. And you know, I pull the buckthorn
in my yard every year and try to keep it under control that way. So, it's it's not that I'm saying you're gonna I don't know that you're going to eradicate it, but I think it's important for them to know that
um it's a good idea to try to beat it back, if that makes sense. And I was thinking like two years trying to get rid of these plants and you know have a good
effort over the two years maybe including a certified applicator because I don't know how you're going to beat the Japanese notweed if you don't have um somebody doing the cut and dab application.
I don't know. The whole thing is very overwhelming. Invasive species management. It's It sounds really great. It sounds like such a great good thing and it is. But the problem is is unless everybody's managing the invasive
species on their property, it just doesn't work. And the other problem is the birds. The birds spread all of these plants through the berries. So, it it's just a daunting task, I think, for a lot of homeowners. Um, but
if the commission is going to require that this be done and be implemented, um, then that's what we'll do. That's why I was hoping to maybe target the worst of the worst. And in my mind, the worst of the worst, the notweed and the
bittersweet. I would also include the tree of heaven on >> the tree of heaven. >> Yeah. What does everybody else think? >> I see Rick nodding. >> I pulled out a lot of buckorn. It's uh I
had a lot of it. Took me I don't know four hours. Really easy to pull out. I think they should give it a shot. >> Okay. you're already I mean you're not working on that directly in this location of the proposed pool, but you might as well take the opportunity to do it now versus
5 years down the road where it's going to multiply. So >> yeah. Um and you were saying there's buckthornne everywhere. There's also yard waste piles in every backyard we go to visit practically. And I'm just
amazed that these people who are across the street from the compost center couldn't drive their leaves to the compost center. You know, people from the other side of town can complain it's too far away, but this was the like closest house you could possibly be and
be able to take your leaves to the compost center. Well, a lot of homeowners have landscapers and you know those guys are busting their humps every day landscaping and and they dump it where there's a convenient spot. Doesn't make it right, but
>> yeah, >> that's what happens more often than not. >> Yeah. And so that's the request is to ask the landscapers not to keep blowing the leaves into the wetland. Um >> that that's perfectly fine. I'm more than happy to remove the lawn waste and
the lead waste. >> That's not a problem. Okay. >> Um Okay. Uh one of the people asked, "Are you keeping the door that's next to the bulkhead that will lead out to the pool from the garage? Any changes there?"
>> Um I'll have to ask the homeowner. I believe we would keep the door. >> Okay. And the patio that's on the plan, is that the same patio that's there and the same patio that's going to be there or are you modifying the patio in some way?
>> The existing patio will remain the same. >> And um it looks like the retaining wall is going to go where some plantings are around that existing plant patio. So are those going to have to be relocated or removed to make room for the retaining
wall? Yes. Okay. Um, oh, out in the middle of the wetland, we noticed uh at least one cinder block and some piles of cut logs. Um, I think the
cut logs might have come from a fallen tree. Um, I think we would ask them to remove the cinder block from the wetland. I'm not sure we need to ask them to remove the logs. I think they can rotat,
>> right? They can rot in place, but maybe maybe take out the cinder block. >> Okay. >> Okay. And how far away from the wall are you planning to put the erosion control so that you have some room to work to build the wall?
>> Well, the plan shows it right next to the wall and that is a good point. Um, we may need to give that at least a couple of feet. The walls really a landscape wall. It's only
varies in height one and a half to two and a half feet. Um, so it's not 4 feet or greater. Um, if we could rem if we could relocate the erosion controls 5T, I think that would
be adequate, you know, that would give the men building the mall five feet. They can work on the upgraded side and gives some little wiggle room. >> That would make sense to me. Does that make sense to you, Chuck? >> Yeah.
So the the erosion control will be more or less on the 30 foot line and the wall will be on the 35. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Okay. Um, and if they're bu putting in any soil stock
pile when they're digging out for the pool, I would love to see that on the other side of the 100 foot buffer zone line in the front yard rather than downhill from the pool.
>> My guess is they'll be trucking that off site. >> Okay. just because outside of the 100 foot is in the front yard and it just does not make any sense to dig it out and run it across the driveway. >> Okay, so trucking that out sounds good
to me. Um the uh proposed patio that's going to go around the pool is not drawn in here. Do we have any specs for that patio? >> I can get you specs. It's actually shown
as um a sliver of patio area right here. >> Oh, just on that side only >> and a little bit right here. >> Okay. >> But I I can get you uh specs from the pool company if that helps.
And is that the imperous area that you're talking about doing the um storm water basin for? >> Yeah. So I don't know how the commission
looks at pool if we need to count that as my understanding is we don't because the rain fills up the pool so it's not running off. >> Okay. Every town is different believe it or not. That that is my memory from the first
pool we um permitted was that the pool does not count as impervious surface. >> The same with the cover. >> Well, is that something? We should probably check on that. I mean, I don't think we're trying to fix runoff. I think we're trying to
infiltrate. >> Okay. So, um, but I'm not sure it, you know, we made a decision. It's not going to be part of this, uh, application. So, but I'd like to check on that. It's not
that sounds >> not what you remembered. >> No, it's not that I don't remember it, but just when you said it, it doesn't run off, that that's what I don't remember. Okay. >> So, that was the reason I'm like questioning it. It's going to be covered like eight
months a year. >> Yeah, but I mean I have a cover on my pool and the water goes on top of the cover. >> No, no. The cover sinks in and it makes a pond in the middle of my pool and then I have to get rid of the water later,
but it's not in that first storm surge 24-hour thing. >> Well, an ingground pool will have a cover that the water will seep through. >> Depends on the ingground pool, >> right? But normally the ones that they put in now then >> they have the the elephant pool. Nothing puddles on top.
>> Yeah. So it all goes into the Yeah. Um the pool that I'm remembering is right off of South Street. It was near Sturgeis Park and that's the one I remember that I was surprised to hear that that didn't count as impervious. So
that was like 2020. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Anyway, um but maybe it would be good to know what the patio is going to be made of. And I'm surprised that they're only having patio on the two
sides of the pool away from the house because usually you don't want to be trucking across the lawn to get to your pool. You usually have some sort of a walkway from the door to the pool. >> I agree. I I would like that. Um,
>> so >> let me verify with the homeowners. I mean it this was that they approved this design, but I think it's an excellent suggestion. Let me rever if I am. >> There's no detail for the um power for the
for the pool equipment >> for the pool >> where the tension is where it's going to be coming from. >> Okay. You'd like to see that on the plant? >> Yeah, good point. My my question is looking at the diagram now more thoroughly. If there's maintenance on the pool, you
have to go through the far side of Grove Street, walk through the gates, then go across the patio to get to the pool. There's no access to the pool from Family Circle. >> There is. >> Yeah. >> So, Chuck, if you put up the um Can you
put up an aerial by chance? >> Yes. >> So, the driveway is actually off of Family Circle and then I mean you could access the pool through the lawn beside the road, but there's a fence.
>> There's a fence there. That's my There's no gate through the fence. >> I don't know the fence detail. I'm sure they'll have a a gate. I'd put a gate. They >> show a gate on the far the north or up
side. Yeah, they show a gate on the side of the house farthest from the pool. >> They don't show a gate along the driveway side. >> I think that was just an error. Um, if the commission would like to see
a gate, we can add a gate in that location. That's not a problem. >> I think they'd like it. >> I don't think we should let have people we can't design the front. You're telling them put in the gate. We should be talking about a gate >> access if they want to access it.
>> There's a fence on the plan. You're asked to approve that. Just end it there. >> Yeah. >> Sorry. >> I won't charge. >> And um did you notice there's somebody in the waiting? I didn't notice that,
>> but I wondering. >> Okay, I think I have finally come to the end of all my questions. I apologize for bringing them all on you at the last minute. >> It's all right, Matthew. You're keeping me on my toes. >> So, you've got a bunch of things to go
back and ask them about. Um, so, um, is there any public comment either in the >> Chuck comment first? Sorry. >> Oh, is there Chuck comment? I've been waiting. >> Thank you, Josh. >> So, uh, so my comment was, uh, I didn't als I I also So, we're approving the
installation of an ingground. I can see that on the plan. Full patio, and you pointed that out. Um, the equipment area. We've asked for more detail, which I'm wondering, are we asking for like is it going to be um on sauna
tubes? It's going to have a foundation. That kind of uh >> probably going to be a slab, but where's the the trench for the electrical gone more? >> So, how's it fixed the ground? There's f fencing. We just talked about that drainage area. What are we what are we approving?
When you say drainage area. >> So, the thought was to put a drywall in that location. >> What location? >> Does it say it on plan? Am I missing it? >> Okay. Right near the 78.
>> Okay. >> And that dry well does what? Where? What? So there's like no line coming from the dry well to show us where it's getting its water. >> I can add the details for that. Um
this this lot is in the waterhed. >> So I think we need to do a deep hole for that as well. So, are you thinking rooftop? You're thinking where's your thought? Is it coming from the roof that you're going to just pipe
that over to the >> No, it's going to connect to the patio. It the patio is going to be impervious and then we're going to run the surface runoff to the drywall. >> Patio is cement.
>> Yes. >> Okay. as far as I know, unless the homeowners are looking to change it at some point during this process. >> All right. Patio cement. So, it I think that
a little more detail on the plan would be um would be a good thing. And then the associated grading. I just want to make sure we've run into problems with this before. I don't see it on the plan. We would like to know
where, how much, that kind of stuff. If you're not going to go out there and take shots and fix this plan, like to see a document that describes what you're going to do for grading or any filling. >> Okay. So, um,
we can do that. I mean, that area is somewhat flat in that area. So, you know, when I say associated grading, a lot of it is if it's relatively flat, you're going to do some grading, >> but it's not going to be substantial
like you put it in a 4ft 6 foot retaining wall or something like that. >> You you do have a uh wall going in there, retaining wall. >> We do. >> And that's when you said associated grading. I'm my mind started to kind of wander a little bit on what's what are
we talking about here? >> Well, if you look at the The elevation of the pool is going to be at 79.5. You can see the 80 contour right behind the house that goes along uh the property line. And then where the wall
is proposed, you have a 77 contour. So the wall's going to vary in height from about one and a half to two and 1/2 ft. But I can try and get some more detail on the plan. Um that
>> so between the bottom of the wall and the top of the wall towards the house and pool there's a twoft there's a two foot difference and you got to fill for two two feet. >> Yeah. >> So I just want to make sure the commission picked up on that point. I
was also confused by the patio. Um so all right now that's it. all my questions. Now, anybody in the room with comments or questions? Anybody on Zoom? Use the reaction button and the raise hand function inside the reaction button.
Okay, seeing none, um it looks like we have a lot of things to come back to the next hearing. Are you willing to ask for a continuation? >> Please. >> To November 12th, >> please. >> Okay. Can I have a motion to continue to
November 12th? >> Walter Talbert moves that we continue discussion of 400 Street to November 12th. >> Michelle seconds to Michelle in favor. >> Thomas in favor.
>> Martha Moore in favor. Thank you, Moren. >> Thank you. Okay. Um, >> I need to step out. >> So, you can continue on. Yeah, we can spray. >> Is this 1295 Main Street?
>> No. >> Rose Street Meadow Brook Golf Course. >> Okay. All right. Want to present to us your proposal? >> Um, yes. Dan McCarthy from Metober Golf
Club. Um we have a minor site change uh with our storage building that we're putting in. Um we need to put in a um a holding or a uh ejector pump for a bathroom that's going into the building um and bring water and sewer lines down
to that area. So they're detailed out on the drawing. Location of the Ujector pump is to the right of the building and water line is in blue, sewer line is in gray, I mean in um green running um up
to our existing storage building that we have up in the parking lot. Um and uh sewage and water are coming from that building right there. So, we're just looking for or just notifying you of our additional excavation to the right of the building for that holding tank or
for the ejector pump and water lines coming up. >> Okay. Um, did everybody on the commission get a chance to see the plans online? Chuck hasn't put them up on the screen
yet, but the green line goes right along the road. The blue line comes in at the front of the building. Um, it looks like it's going under the tree cover, but is that still also in the road? >> It is not. It is still in the road.
Yeah, that's a that corner has been cleaned out from trees. There just that tree cover has just never been updated. >> Okay. So, yes, clean in the road. >> And um, is this basically cut and cover trenching?
>> Yes. So you will not have any stockpile dirt to erode overnight or anything. It's going to all get covered up again the same way >> dig and excavated. I mean that we still have all of our erosion control out and such from the building. Everything is still current. So >> it's still intact.
>> Okay. So you're working on doing the building already, correct? >> The erosion control is in place >> and you just need to add these two lines. >> Correct. Anybody on the commission with questions or comments?
Construction experts. All right. Um, so what my notes say is we need to vote whether this is a minor plan change or move up to an amended or order of conditions or as much as a new notice of
intent. And um my feeling is it's probably a minor plan change. Is everybody okay with that? >> All right. So, can I have a motion to that effect, >> Walter? Or do you have any questions first?
>> I'm just looking at the doc. Sorry. >> So, the first question is, is this a minor plan change? Then after that, we'll vote whether or not to accept that minor plan change. Okay. I move that we accept. >> No, that we
decide that it's a minor plan change. >> I move that we decide whether it's a minor plan change as presented from the golf course at Meetbook with the new septic system. Pardon me, not septic
drainage system. >> I think it's sewer line and water line. >> Sewer line and water line. Okay. Can we >> Michelle seconds to Michelle in favor in favor? >> Walter Thomas in favor. >> Martha Moore in favor. Okay. Now we
discuss whether or not to accept this minor plan change and then we can move on that. But any comments on whether you approve of this minor plan change? Any questions about the logistics of it? Okay.
Now we get to say, do we accept the minor plan changes? >> The only question I have >> is that the uh pump station, what prevents it from being overfooted. >> There's an emergency alarm in it. Um
it's it's a it's a forced main that runs up to an existing force main. So, there's a there's an emergency alarm in it that triggers um at at a specific height to prevent that, but it's it's it's under pressure. It's not a uh holding tank. It's under pressure.
>> Well, we have the exact same unit in front of our storage building. So, we already have one on property that that works uh very efficiently. >> Thank you. >> Any other questions or comments? Anybody
from the audience? I don't think Chuck can look to see if anybody's on the computer. >> Come up on the screen and stuff in there. >> It doesn't seem to be anything. Okay. Um, can we have a motion? >> I move that we accept the minor change
to Metobrook Golf Course as provided in the discussion. >> Michelle second to Michelle in favor in favor. Martha Moore in favor. >> All right, commission. Appreciate it.
>> Finally, somebody who doesn't have to come back again. Right. Done. >> Was done before you even got back. >> What's that? >> Done before you even got back. >> I know. You guys are great. I feel very proud.
>> Thank you. Okay. And 1295 Main Street. >> Yeah. 1295 Main Street. This is a project that was um came in as lot a Main Street. It was a house. Very difficult spot. And so because of that, because a
contractor was building it, commission asked for a bond bonds for $5,000. The house was finished a long time ago and we issued a certificate of compliance. We've actually been there a few times just to make sure that things are
working correctly and their 25 foot no disturbance zone. Did that um and I received my monthly report on uh uh you know the accounts noticed lot a was in there which is
called uh uh 1295 Main Street. And so I reached out to the owner and I asked him to uh submit a request to have that come out. I do not feel there's any reason to hold this money. This is project's finished. This was just u the owner's
oversight. It's not it's not really set up so that the conservation commission says, "Oh yeah, now we have to give you your money back. Everything is generated by a request from the applicant." But I did reach out when they came in. They happen to be doing another project in town. So, I got the request letter and
uh I have the information sent me about the check and the refund. So, my recommendation is that we approve this uh fund. Oh, it was also on last week. We talked about it last the last meeting, but I didn't have it on the agenda as a vote. So, this needs a vote,
and that's what I'm asking for tonight. And when you said the owner, do you mean the the person who did the construction who has the bond or the person who bought the house and now lives there? >> His name is uh the the person that uh
for the contracting company, they ended up selling selling it to the now owner, but the owner back when this order of condition came through was Frank Lanzano. >> And so it's going back to Frank. And uh the way our orders of the conditions are written,
whoever gives us the bond, we have to give the money back to that person. If you want to look at that someday, visa v503 Main Street and those guys up at that end of town, uh you can, but but right now, this is this is how it's
written. And and this is not the same situation. This money should go back to Frank. He finishes the project fine. >> Yep. Yep. We we made them add some more plants to fill the 25 foot zone. But yeah, I Brian and I and Chuck have all seen
this property and it's in good shape. >> So, can we have a motion? >> Any discussion? >> Oh, sure. Discussion. >> Go ahead. >> I move that uh we return the bond funds for 1295 Main Street.
>> Michelle second to Michelle in favor. >> Rick Q in favor. Thomas in favor. >> Martha Moore in favor. Okay. Um the next thing on the agenda is the enforcement order at 445 Pearl Street. Brian has
been by to look at it, but he's not here to talk about it. So, I'm going to suggest we um hold off on that till Brian is back. >> And that might be something that we put on the agenda for everyone to to look at. I think that it's moved along much
better than it has in the past three years and um we'll see where we're at. But let's hear from Brian first and uh we'll do our prep meeting and if he thinks it's time for the entire commission to go out, then that's what we'll set up. If not,
we'll monitor it for a few more months, see what happens. >> Didn't we do a site visit there about a month back? >> Yeah, it hadn't been finished yet. Now it's finished. Now it's closer. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> If you remember when we did the site
visit, wasn't there a giant dam in the middle of the stream? Yeah. >> The dam is gone. Okay. >> And the nearer part to the street has been worked on, but I haven't been there to take a good look at it. So, I think another site visit is more. >> Did the DPW have to get involved with
that one? >> Um, >> because they blocked it off. I think you were concerned about that >> on that day. I did reach out to the DPW and uh someone went over there and um you know talk to them about that. I
don't think it was in a bad way. Just saying if they need any additional help and >> uh or something like that, but it was taken care of quite quickly after that. >> Yeah, I stopped by >> but but the town did not do any of the
work. I spoke to Mike and said I was just checking because it was pouring rain and I wanted to see what was going on. And he said the DPW had stopped in and offered that they could help pump the water over the dam if necessary, but
um but it hadn't filled up that much. Okay. 50 Joanna Drive enforcement order site visit and review. We did go out to 50 Joanna Drive. Um Walter, do you feel like telling what we saw there. And Joe, were
you there, too? >> If you want to speak up and tell us about what you saw, you're welcome to. >> Sure. >> I don't remember the numbers in their names. >> So, we did have I think four four commissioner five commissioners there at
50 Joanna Drive. We observed I think there was the new fence that was installed as well as the plantings. We did a counting of I think 15 trees and additional shrubs. Um, we had some concerns around the
location of several of the trees planted on the far end of the property closest to street facing Grove Street. um the location they were kind of clumped together and I believe there was also
some concerns that they were not true native plantings um but varietals of those natives um we did speak with not the >> Mr. Federa >> Mr. Federa uh about moving one of the plantings one of the trees uh to just
help kind of with its eventual growth which there was some agreement that it should be moved. >> Yeah, >> Ryan was I know talking with Mr. Federa >> beyond our our site visits, >> right? What he said was he thought they
had put them in exactly the place Morin had on the site plan. And between Monday and today, I did not get a chance to pull up on my computer the site plan from Morin. >> But um yeah,
>> I think we saw >> was our concern >> and I know there was some removal of invasives. Uh there was a little bit more I think on the far end of the property that could have been removed that we observed, but um everything appeared to be trimmed
from the base up to um 15 feet or so. Um some of the vines that was observed, Walter, I don't know if there's anything else. And just for detail, the um the three red maples were something like autumn
glory or October glory or something um varietals of red maple. Um they had all been purchased at Mahonies and um that's what Mr. Federa said Mahonies had. So, I
think maybe we were not clear enough on wanting true natives when we asked them to do those plantings. >> How so? >> I don't remember. >> No, I mean like why do you think it's the commission's fault?
>> Okay, maybe it's not. Maybe it's that he didn't hear us when we said we wanted true natives. Why do we need to wonder about what his position is? >> Does the commission always say we'd like true natives? >> We have
>> pretty much 100%. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And Moren's been here many times. >> Just just a clarification to that. I believe it was Mr. Vera or the applicant provided the list of
natives to Mahon at that point in time. I think that's what they mentioned. They just took the printing the print out and handed it directly to the owners when they were sourcing the trees, >> right? Just >> I think the answer to that is sounds like from what I'm hearing the list was
correct, but when Mr. Fera says this is what they had, that makes me think there's some substitutions. There's always substitutions, but >> I mean, and it's not just one, it's
three trees. >> Uh, more than three because a lot of the dog woods were not native dog woods either. >> Uhhuh. >> The maples in question pretty close. >> Yeah. Interestingly though, my memory
was three trees in a straight line and one tree further back. And these trees are not shown exactly in a straight line. >> Yeah, but this one is further back than
um I think it actually is. in this plan, the tree is further back than where they planted it. But, um, I think they're pretty close. But that's a key
question then is we asked for true natives. We didn't get true natives. Do we >> But did you No, I'm only just mention this because made you made it seem like, you know, maybe we should try harder the
next time or something like that. And I'm not really sure that's how the commission operates. And but if there was some sort of agreement made out on site, Mr. Federa, then I think you'd have to honor that. >> I don't think we made an agreement. We
just had a conversation and we asked the question and we got the answer that he handed his list to Mahoney and this is what Mahonies gave him and the one I'm remembering it's autumn glory was the red mate um
and I think probably when he handed the list to Mahonies he did not say and they have to be true natives and Mahoney is not one of the landscape companies that stocks mostly true
natives. I think Mahoney stocks a lot of beautiful varieties of varying colors of flowers for your flowering dogwood for example. So, uh, but
I guess that's the question is, do we demand that they dig up all of these non-natives, varietals of natives and replace them with true natives? Do we wait and see how many survive in the spring and have
them replace the ones that died off with true natives? Um, how uh how hardnosed do we want to be about our must be true natives policy? That's my question. in the
after the fact that they've already planted all these trees. As a homeowner, having planted many, many things myself, I'm trying to remember if I've ever seen a tag that says true native or ever
didn't have some kind of variety. is true natives available commercially available. >> If you go to the right place they are not necessarily Mahonies. >> Okay. >> Well, we don't we don't provide a retail
location to buy those true natives with our planting when we provide that list. We don't have preferred vendors. >> I don't think you can do that. >> Yeah, that's what but that's that's that would be my confusion. Like the tag actually one of the tags says it was like native valley or something like
that and it's like I see native as a homeowner. Maybe that is a native but >> well you know I was just curious, you know, thank thank our lucky stars that Moren Harold was part of this
project and actually I believe she was the consultant on this project and she is a wetland scientist. If there was any con confusion, they could have come to the conservation commission or just asked Moren what her thoughts are. So
homeowner walking up a tag that says native, you know, maybe I I mean, we can't go around looking for excuses. It's hard to get this stuff done. And if you want to be specific, we have to write it into
the enforcement orders. But and and that's maybe where we didn't have the need for that because all this was presented. I don't think there was a request to update the enforcement orders. We just went with what Moren uh presented. So I'm looking
for her list and u I think that would be interesting to find out. >> Walter just had the plan up there. Does it have the list on it? I think as a homeowner, you pay these people to do their job. You're trusting
that they're going to do it. So, Moren, the PL, you know, I don't think the homeowner is looking at every tag saying, "No, >> absolutely not." No. >> You know, you're paying someone to do a service and you're relying on them to do it. >> We're actually hoping that happens because then the homeowner can go back to the service and say, "This is not
what I asked for. This diagram says proposed shrubs and proposed trees and that's all it says. >> There might be a letter associated with that where Moren listed off the plants. >> It's not in the project. >> Yeah, it's not in the letter either.
>> I have one from August 6th. It's called the revised planting. What she call revised plant revisction. >> Revised plan memo. There's Morning's invoice. Eight trees. Eight trees. Shrubs.
>> Yeah, I think there were eight trees, eight shrubs, and then he added one more up in the front for some reason. >> But yeah, none of these documents actually have the list from Mahoney's. I mean, you just have the Mahoney's
invoice. That's it. So that's that's what they planted or ordered. >> There's a chart here that says homeowners shall plant a minimum six shrubs and they give common name and Latin
name. >> Okay. >> Plant a minimum eight trees, four to six. >> Common name, Latin name. >> Okay. I don't think it says on that list must be true native. So we managed to
let that one slide by >> common Latin >> trees are proposed to be placed. Six native shrubs are proposed. >> Yeah. But native can include the varieties unless we specify true native and then
it's not varieties. And we learned that with uh 1503 Main Street. >> Okay. >> So, it said native and not true native. >> I think it didn't say true native. >> Okay. Well, all right.
>> Let's go on. Let's just move on. So, um I think I would suggest that we do not close this enforcement order yet because we don't know if these trees have survived
and we want some survival documentation. We want to see them leaf out in the spring and maybe survive next summer. >> Yeah. >> At least a year, maybe more. >> Yeah, I think that Yeah. In the back, I think a lot could happen. they could
just get entangled by bittersweet or something like that. So, there's some maintenance that's needed and it would be prudent to wait at least through one winter and we usually ask for three. So, that would be that would be uh
reasonable, but um yeah, it's up to you. >> When we were there, I got in my car, drove away, and I'm saying I never looked to see if they had hoses. Uh the uh the tenant is the one who's going out and watering them, >> right? But did you see hoses?
>> There were none in the yard. But there was a hook up >> towards the back part of the law. >> You're an expert on this. You want to >> You did ask about that. >> At one point I was I was calling Joe. I said, "Am I watering too much?" I was out there every day. >> You were reaching the gator bags every
day, >> but there were no gator bags that we had. >> Yeah. It's a good a better time of year if those pictures are from August 6th, >> you know, >> and you went and saw them recently and you thought that they looked good.
>> Well, the hot horn beam or the horn beam had three little tiny leaves left on the top and all the rest of the leaves were gone. Some of the dogwood leaves were pretty droopy, but it is fall so I'd like to see what leafs out in the spring
and what survives the summer. So, let's put it on for a year from now. Let's go back and look and decide at that point how many need to be replanted and whether we want to come back a year after that and look again.
>> So, I'll let uh Mr. Federa know that we like the planting. We agree with the spacing. Everything seems to be good, but we just need to make sure that these will survive where they've been planted. So, we're going to hold off on uh closing out the enforcement order
and look at it again a year from today >> and maybe another year after that >> and then make a decision. Sure. >> Okay. All right. We're on to November 4 DPW
monthly meeting projects for 2026 list needed. So if there are people on the commission who have ideas for things that we need DPW's help for Joe has has at least one >> beyond sort of helping me out today
>> routine maintenance that they always do for us. This is particular projects we want to ask for. >> Yeah. So uh we were out at Matt's homes today to take out a second bench. Um, it's the one on the largest pond uh in
Lance Homes. The the footings or the legs on the benches are bending. It's a polywood bench. It's made out of I think it's a recycled plastic material, but what we've noticed on two of them so far, and Chuck and I have removed both of them, is that the legs bow out over
time. Um, occasionally they'll get shifted when people are moving things. Maybe they'll take a photo or something like that and they might move the bench, but um in the last year we've had to take out two of those benches. Um we would like to find a way to reinforce
them. I think Chucky mentioned you wanted to bring them to Materin to be used and potentially swap them out with >> Well, that was an idea. Okay. So, >> either way, we need support. >> You could present that to the Yeah. So,
we're asking for we're asking for like this just occurred to me, but it sounds like Joe had some had had thought it all out, but um the benches seem to be not the highest quality for the use that they're getting
at uh Mlets Morgan. So, I said, well, why waste them, right? So, obviously the conservation commission uh would want to replace these. So, I think one of the one of the requests that Joe is going to make is to replace the rest of the
benches down there. Uh, that about $1,600 each. So, maybe we can only floor one a year, but um that would be one of the things. But for the DPW request, that would be cement and someone to make
the make the cement uh, you know, form and uh whatever the slab is in in the certain area. So we can put the bench on it and put it in place but uh just the cement. So the this list is for things
that we need done that we can't do ourselves and we need a little help from the DPW such as how they helped us with the uh material cabin deck. They dug the footings which was a big benefit. So
>> why would a slab prevent the legs from moving? >> So depending So depending on which bench you look at, some of them have like paper stones down that the legs will either sit up against or like prevent
them from moving. Uh two of the benches, they're actually just on a level like kind of a crush stone grade. So there's not much of it shifting. But the I think it's actually the quality of the bench itself in potentially in the heat or,
you know, in that environment there's no stable ground. It's a rough terrain that it's being placed on. Every time you have someone sitting on it, it's causing a shift in the legs. I also don't think they were assembled properly to begin with. Um, so there's other concerns with the bench there. Uh, a stable kind of
platform could help kind of minimize it moving. Um, but ultimately I think swapping it out with a different bench would be more ideal. So for the DPW's purpose, at least some sort of regrading or slab would be helpful to start.
>> So at least one of the benches is on a slab. >> That one's okay. >> That one is on the hill. >> That Yes, because that is a different type of bench altogether. So that was I think that was donated. Correct. >> I get a picture now. Yeah. So these poly
benches were they part of the original project built by the original grant and can we complain to them that they >> do you see the back job >> the back bottom leg so it bows in >> um >> and I think we have you put you we put
in requests warranty request >> yeah I've already I uh it's actually pretty easy with this company so I actually put in the request already and I'll hear in a few days whether they'll accept it or not This particular bench unfortunately didn't have a um barcode
on the bottom which you need because they're they identify each bench own it own barcode. This one was missing. I looked I turned that thing over a few times trying to find it. Um
and I let them know that and they seem to be processing it. Uh they asked me for a second picture but nothing beyond that. So, we're only asking for whatever we got the arm and both legs. I
would be fine with just getting this arm right here. This leg leg section >> because the rest is is >> they could send you that and you could take off the old one and put on the new one. >> Yeah. Well, that's our second one. We're
pretty much experts now. >> This this happened in I think the last two weeks, too. There was no noticeable bend. So, it was pretty quick. >> So, these are the ones that would be better, you know, suited somewhere where it didn't get a lot of uh, you know,
>> pop a brace in the back. >> You could, >> we thought of that >> the back leg, you know, >> cheaper than slab and then putting angles to hold all the legs.
>> Yeah. >> I mean, it it can be fixed. Uh, as a matter of fact, um, yeah, a lot of people suggested I I like the slab because it >> the slab probably throw something behind it >> probably. Yeah, I probably could.
>> Can I ask for the bench that we have the slab? I know the volunteers worked on the slab and then the bench was donated, correct? >> Right. How's that handled? So if we theoretically if there was a second donation for this is this is probably the most active bench used on the
property and if there was a second bench donated does that individual >> if if there's a bench donation request is it the slab and the bench is it just the bench we provide >> the slab and the bench that's what the last one was. So the total the the
donation from the individual in town that got that first bench that was for the slab, the bench and black. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> Yeah. They they uh they paid for it all and they were happy to do it. Um >> it was like 2500 bucks for the whole
thing. >> It was just under 2,000. Yeah. And I think the plaque we weren't involved in. >> So and it's just a tiny little, you know, business card kind of thing.
>> So, any other ideas for projects that we could use DPW's help on? >> I'm wondering if there's any paths >> paths that need stone dust or wood chips or anything. >> Well, stone uh wood chips certainly they
don't spread them out for us. They just dump them off. and we're able to get wood chips when we want within three weeks. >> Okay. So, that doesn't >> that doesn't have to be on >> that doesn't raise to this level of this list. >> How about any of the repairs that need
to be made to make mater certainly we would support her request. Um, but I'm not making it seem like I know what they would do. >> But if there was some sort of site work that needed to be done, it would make sense that we wouldn't pay some site
work company to do that. Uh, but that list hasn't been we don't I don't know where that list lands because we have a it's coming up in the agenda, but we have a list of things that are needed, but it's really up to the uh fire
department, the chief of the fire department and the um building commissioner to say what we really need or or what what they want. So, we'll be having that meeting in the next couple of weeks.
But uh Rick Nelson's out and maybe on vacation or something like that or was his schedule was full and then uh our new building commissioner is out and so we have to wait for him to come back. So it's
it's not like hey get this meeting done and we're going to be in there the next day. It's it's more or less like everyone's kind of holding their breath and trying to figure out who can do what. I can just really get back in.
>> Do you have any projects down near Pineville that need DPW support? Anything? >> Well, I have my projects. I'm asking you for your projects. >> Oh, I'm just thinking of projects that, you know, might be appropriate.
>> Yeah, I do. >> I want to hear from Chuck. >> Hey, what are your projects, Chuck? Um well they're not all I so usually what I try to do is figure out who we have coming here from next step volunteers and what their skill level is
and then with those projects but we do um yeah we do have a couple projects. So, one of the one of our requests that I looked at with Brian Bow was there's some trimming, tree trimming needing to be done to open up some areas in the
garden that uh get a lot of afternoon shade. So, we wanted to make a request to get some trees trimmed up there. >> Community garden. >> Community garden. Yes. >> How is the fence around the community garden holding up? Does it need repair?
And is that something we need help with? >> They wouldn't do that. >> Okay. Fine. >> No, they didn't even help. They didn't even help with the fence down by the parking lot. That was that had to be done by actually yours truly to go in uh put them in. I think the conservation paid for.
>> Okay. >> So, it's it's tough. So, does some of the So, like a trail, you know, carve a new trail bring cement out into an area where we can't get to. Um there's a uh like in the in Bare
Meadow there's a stone wall and someone put an opening in that stone wall and I wanted to put it back like it's original originally was. And so moving those rocks around is something that people can't do. I mean, that's pretty low. We
don't need it done. Um, but it's things like that that we that we couldn't do. Uh, another request was painting the handicap um symbols on the ground at Material Cabin and at Pearl Street. That was on last year's list, but it hasn't
happened yet, so it's probably going to be on this year's list. It's really that kind of stuff. >> What about the bridge at Sturgis Park that being proposed across the uh like a culvert or something like that
trail that goes kind of >> along the river and baseball fields, softball field? Isn't there going to be a >> bridge or crossing? Is that >> something that DPW would be involved with >> building it?
>> Building it. >> No. Okay. >> I think that's from a project on Walnut Street is doing that bridge as mitigation. >> There's a couple bridges going on out there now. So, uh Walnut Street is um
>> uh is trying to sell that project. So, there's actually no and and trails committee found out that the bridge they wanted at the far end is far too expensive excess of $50,000. So, they haven't taken a vote on it. I doubt that they're
going to be doing that anyways. Um there's a possibility what they have done is they've paid for a plan out in that area and they're hoping there's enough room to get into an area where they can either build a bridge or go on land to get out
uh and get back to the field. So there another access at the end. >> Okay. >> Um so yeah, that all we have there is the trail at this point and no bridges. So what ends up happening is that build bridging that bridge building goes back
to the trails committee and they do it uh as part of their list but I'm not sure they would even do this one. What one's reasonable? It's 16 to 18 feet across and that's pretty reasonable. The one that we did at Mlette and Morgan across
the the Ajona was 25 feet. So we know we can do 16 feet or 18 feet without a problem. Uh but yeah, if you can keep thinking on November 4th is the DPW meeting and we'll have to I'd like to give them my
list well in advance and so yeah, just so that's what we're looking for like like you guys can send like you can do something in your house but it would be better if you got a contractor to do most of the work. So that's kind of what the thought is. What can they give us a
hand with that we couldn't do without them? >> Okay. >> Are you able to put a list together for yourself of what you're trying to accomplish? >> Yeah, I I can put a list together. Uh, you know, a lot of things had been taken uh had happened. Our list is still
pretty big from last year. They might not get through it all. So, with whatever and with what they have to do, and they don't even have to do it. They just pick what they can do. This is a request. You know, best thing to do
would be to have, sorry guys, have CPA go to CPA and say, "Hey, we need, you know, we're proposing a bridge. So, I get all the labor. This is how much it costs. If you gave us that money, we could build this bridge." You could get
the money from CPA. So the footings or something. I don't know how. Trying to think like how would we get DPW? Maybe they would dig the footings next to the stream and and and create the footings for us. >> But we you know we'd have to pay for
engineering and and all that material design and footings. Yeah. >> Are you able to give us like a fiveyear plan on some of the things you're trying to accomplish and we can try to knock them off? >> So our So there's a plan in the uh open space plan. You can you can look through
that. Most of what I come up with is I you know I want to concentrate on the material cabin. I want to make that kind of like the the hub of conservation and those trails that happen in that area. >> Um you know I talked about
when I first came in I asked if I can I want to get together a group of commissioners. Doesn't have to be seven or six or five but there's a grant round coming up starts. It's open pretty much now. You can sign on it and um it has to
be by February. We have to have it turned in. And so I need some help writing a grant. And um so are there grant writers in the group? Are there people that can write in the group? And so I went reached out to Mary from the Montasauri school who said, you know,
many times when we were just talking, waiting for people to show up that that's what she used to do. So, she's going to help me, but I need some commissioners, too. She's busy doing something. She'd like to have someone put a bunch of stuff together and she
would take it from there or she would come in and help us with next steps. There could be help also here in town from Andrew McNichol. But, you know, we don't want to just have just farm it out to someone else. We want to do this ourselves. We want to
do this and get the credit ourselves. So the grant is for engineering uh and design of the path that's going to back up recal. Following year we're going to go out for construction. Okay. So design and uh engineering and we probably want
pricing too. So >> I think to Rick's point though, if we can get a list, consolidated list to kind of start to branch out how we would structure grants and how like our vision, it would kind of help like you taking what you just said, putting it on
paper, making sure that we have that. >> Great. Now, who volunteers to do that? Oh, it's my it's my ideas. Okay, >> we can contribute. No good turn goes unpunished. Well, if you're looking for somebody to write a proposal,
I spent 40 years doing technical proposals in sales, >> right? We got one volunteer. I I sounds like someone who knows what they're doing, too. >> Used to do it. >> Yeah. I'll send you the information
and uh when uh so send you the information and we'll uh we'll go from there. And as far as the five-year plan, if you give me some time, I would put it together and
to to take that one more step. Um what we used to do in the town I used to work for is we used to always evaluate our properties and it became easier once you went through once and you would identify everything that
needed to be done and get estimates on everything and then you would choose what what to work on. Now again, this works best with a funding source, and grants are a good funding source, but but the town I was in had CPA. So, we
would constantly update the estimates so they were current and then know what we could do when we would go to CPA and we would have drawings and whatnot. But that money for the drawings came through budgets. There was a budget involved in
that, too. We could certainly do that. Uh, I could put something together if you give me some time, maybe this is something that I would present in January. Um, and then uh and let you know what each place looks like
because I have like half a vision, but I guess this would complete it if I had to kind of write up what you're asking me to do. Okay. All right. And it is after 9:30 and I think we don't have any minutes for
approval, but we do have administrator's report on Mata Cabin and that would be our last item I believe. >> Sure. It was only what I just already told you about that we're having a meeting in a couple of weeks. We have a list of things to do. I don't know how it breaks down if it's if it's something
that >> staff and volunteers can do or what. We'll find that out and I'll report back. Uh it's been a while. Uh, I think I have to say that Jane Wellman has um,
you know, it it really stinks for this place to be closed down and people have just kind of avoided it like a bad problem. Like you just ignore it. But she's just come back with emails and got us again and said, "Let's let's plan another meeting and and see what happens." So, we're we're we're at the
point we're going to get another meeting in a couple of weeks. So I I'm I'm hopeful that it will at least have an understanding if we need to find some funds or if it's there's funds available just to do minimum amount of work. >> Has trails had any impact on their work? I know they had a volunteer effort last
week. Were they able to get all of their stuff out of the garage as needed? >> I wasn't part of that volunteer effort. I wasn't around. Um but I know that um they were able to get what they need and it's been put back.
Um and but I can also let you know that uh activity around the trails and around the cabin which we used to have a lot of activity is zero. You know trails committee would be there making pieces for the for different
boardwalks and whatnot. That's all been shut down. It's basically a storage area now. So uh they're waiting for it. I mean it's good that it's kind of wintertime too. I mean, kind of, you know, there's always a push for these last projects. Really get into winter,
it's going to be better that uh the snow's here because there's not more work to do. But I think trails has probably been impacted uh almost as much as conservation with not being able to use the cabin and not be able to rent it out.
>> Yeah, I'd really like to see that cabin be able to be rented as soon as possible. So, I appreciate your work in that direction. >> Karen Heric gave us a shout out at last night's uh select board meeting. She mentioned it. She uh asked the question
directly to Matt and Jane. Jane gave a better probably better than what I just said, but she uh she let everybody know the time frame and what we're looking at. It all ends up two weeks out. We got to get to this meeting with the building commissioner and the fire chief to find
out what our next steps are. >> Okay. They're really driving this. >> Okay. Anything else? Anybody else have anything? Can we really have a motion to adjourn at 9:36?
>> Move that we adjourn this meeting at 9:36. >> Michelle second. Michelle >> Rick favor. >> When you're doing the research on small lane for going through those >> Oh, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I'm sorry.
>> Okay. Okay, I just looked on the on this and Ellanar Shankoff is here and she had a question. I think I let you and Brian know about this. The commission doesn't know about this. So, we're going to let Ellaner and >> Okay, skip the adjourning.
>> Sorry. >> So, Rick, if you see the words Talbot and Hammerhead the same line, Yeah. >> please tell me. >> All right. Very good. All right. >> May I? >> There you go.
>> Okay. Thank you so much. I am really sorry to be standing between you and adjournment. So, um, >> hey, it's only 9:36, right? >> I know you guys have a lot of stamina. I know. But um so it was my understanding
that the commission wanted some clarification about some fill that we wanted to put in the backyard. Um so on the order of conditions it was previously approved on January 22nd 2025 page 15 number three says that the rear
yard will be regraded slightly to resolve the issue. Um, and then I submitted a map to show the a few additional fill areas that where I wanted to fill in um, with between 3 to
6 in of fill. So, what's previously approved is near the back edge of the property for 3 to 6 in. And then on the side of the property, I wanted to put 3 to six inches as well. And then there's a couple of areas where we might put
about three inches. Basically, the landscapers came out and said, "Your yard is a little bit like this, and you know, there's some spots we can put more fill in." >> And just stop for a minute. You're talking about 32 Harvard Street, right?
>> My apologies. Yes. >> Okay. Just so everybody's on board. And your question is, >> it was my understanding that the
commission maybe wasn't on board wanted to discuss whether or not I could add a little the interpretation of slight regrading, whether or not adding a little bit more fill to the side around the corner of the house
was within the scope. >> Okay. Helen, I'm gonna just try to >> Great. Thank you. >> Yep. >> So, uh, the order of petition went out and I talked to Brian and Martha and both of them understood this as there's a low point in the back right hand corner that could be filled and that was
Brian's recollection when I was on the site visit with Elellanar talking about the fence when she told me that they wanted to add like six inches to everything out there and smooth it out. Um, some will be more, some will be
less, and then and then, uh, tow it into the slope right at where the wetland is. I said, I'm concerned about this because we don't have a plan that shows grading, and if you just let your landscapers loose out here, I don't know what's
going to happen. Um and uh so we talked that over and then we talked about what the approval was and I said typically the commission approves 2 in over existing soil uh just to top dress it so someone can create a graveyard and but but this yard
has a high point low point some humps some valleys and it it needs to be straightened out but I wasn't sure that we approved D it. Um, and so Eleanor has been waiting to
get approval because I think the landscapers are ready to go. Yeah. So, it's it's it's tough because what I think what I'm saying can't be done and what they're hearing can be done is going to
be the problem. That's that's where I felt when I was on site. I said, "This is going to be a problem." So, >> is any of the fill going on the wetland side of the wetland line or is it all uphill from the wetland line?
>> Uh, it's all uphill from the wetland line. And I do have a map. Um, I can either share my screen or Chuck has it. >> Could you share your screen? That would be easier. I wasn't really prepared to. >> Yep. Great. Um,
do you all see that? >> It's coming. >> Yes. >> Okay, great. So, the map here shows the this dotted line I don't is what was previously approved for 3 to
six inches of fill. Oh, no. I'm getting a message that my Zoom is quitting unexpectedly. I don't know if you can hear me still or see the screen. >> No, we can see you. We saw the message, but you're still there, >> right? >> Um, and from what I understand from the
landscaper might need up to 6 in of fill, but then the other two spots, I think it sounds like 3 in of fill would be fine there. On the plan, it does say there's no grading to be done within five feet of the wetlands. So, the landscaper would
adhere to that. It would just be fill in those areas. >> There were several other things, weren't like the drainage off the roof from the down pipes. Yeah, I >> we gave them an exemption to that,
>> but they were going to run it, I thought, across the backyard. >> No, it was really curious. I mean, Ian said that it couldn't be done, but if you can look at um that green spot um that green spot there in the corner of the house
to do it like this, the green spot corner of the house. This looks like it's going to be an area that's going to get a down spout. This is about five feet between here and the and the wetland.
Here's the wetland. So, I don't know if they're getting run off from here or from here, but it certainly look like this along this line there would be a downspout to here that would go in that direction. Ian said it couldn't be done. I don't
know what he was thinking about because this between here and here with a pipe directed under the ground and then daylighted in the wetland is exactly what we were asking for. And they're putting three to six inches
of fill on top of what's there now. So I don't understand why it was rejected by Ian. I think he thought the groundwater was so high that the water wouldn't come out of the pipe. It would just sit there.
>> That was what he was saying. >> Yeah, he's when I was outside, he's absolutely wrong. >> Okay. >> So, and if that was included, the additional I mean they could they could place the pipe in an area where it would be underground
and above the water level because it is above the water level right there. So, >> the corner you're pointing to has the rain barrel. >> Well, it will. The house is under construction now.
>> Um, but tonight my question was just >> Wasn't there drainage coming the upper left hand side of that drip diagram where the porch is? Well, let's like Ellen says, we don't want to start going off somewhere else,
but I'm still surprised that we were told that uh it can't happen because it looks certainly plausible that it could happen. I mean, just a shovel in a piece of PVC would make this work. But as far as Ellen, you still there? So, as far as
um >> grading, my my issues were when I was out there, that's a lot of fill right here. I'm going to change the drainage pattern. And there's a hump over here somewhere.
And what I'm hearing is what I was hearing that day is you're going to go six inches above everything and then just tow it into the slope. And so that looked that looked like at the end of the day this would be completely flat from one
end to the other. Um and that's not what we approved. >> Right. And then my well my interpretation was that the slight regrading and I did I asked So, we're not hearing you.
>> She froze. >> Oops. >> Yeah. So, it's a difficult situation. She needs to get going. >> I could put up the screen if you want. >> Oh, yeah. Sorry. I can share again. I hope it doesn't cut out. But um my
conversation with Ian, I was thinking he was saying that there's like the slight regrading to him was sort of understood that there may be some other areas, you know, where there's a little bit of fill added. Um
and so it seemed like the question was sort of how slight is slight? >> I don't know if that clarifies. So, are you planning to add the 3 to six inches into the white area that was already approved and also three inches
into the pink circles and three to six into the green? >> I think the answer was yes. >> Yes. Excuse me. Yes. >> And I drew this. So this is not an engineer's drawing or a landscaper's drawing
just so you know it's based on my understanding of the yard and the landscaper and if this were approved you know I would provide this to the landscaper and make sure he could adhere to this
>> comments. We had talked about drainage going across a lawn. Now we're raising it 6 in. >> Three to six. >> So now
>> there's a big slope already. And so I think we're just trying to slope it away from the house and down into the wetlands. The current drainage is only good. >> I I don't want to do design work, but isn't there some way to use that volume
of soil to absorb the drainage off the roof? >> Which volume of soil? The new soil or the current soil? The sorry, the proposed fill or the existing?
If if the place puddles because the ground the groundwater table is so high if you're in six inches in theory the groundwater is down here. I mean I know how I would do it in my house but I I'm not into design work as
I discovered. >> Tim Rick any thoughts? It looks >> first. >> It looks doable on the plan where it doesn't look doable on site. So I I
you know um I'm okay if you if you approve it and but I don't think it was approved. So that's why we're here. So if if you what what she's saying, Ellen's saying is
that um this plan will be presented to the landscaper and they'll do what's on it, but what's not on it is an area that shows six inches higher than what's there. Now
that that's a lot of material that you're bringing in there. I mean, >> I'm worried that that leaves you quite a slope going down into the wetland because the wetland line comes so far into the yard >> and they're going right up to against
the wetland line and with the slope. I don't know. >> Yeah, I think it's um I think it's easier to see when you're there like that the the sort of the green part is lower than the rest of the yard. So the
wetlands and the green part are low down. And so I think the thinking is to basically smooth it out so that from the house out to the wetlands there's a little bit more of a consistent slope down into the wetlands rather than sort
of this thing with a a low low point um around that back right side of the house. And so it wouldn't be like a drop off, it would be like a slope, gentle slope. >> And that green area, is that uh to
stop a flooding, a basement flooding issue, or is it just to flatten out the lawn there? >> It's to flatten out the lawn. I don't know how it would affect the basement. So, so obviously, you know, this is an
area that gets a lot of water. The wetlands gone right up to that point and now you're kind of changing it just in front of it. Is it still going to get some of the water? makes sense to me to say
this probably would be okay if they could do the pipe, the storm drain or this the gutter to the downspout to the PVC pipe that discharges in the wetland because then at least we would know the
wetland in that area was getting some water and because it seems like they're altering the surface water patterns. Right. I think we'll be putting more water into the wells direction. I mean,
I get that. Maybe maybe that's okay, but uh it's it's >> Yeah, we're just used to looking at plans and elevations. Now, I'm worried that this mound of green is going to push the water off to
the neighbor's house to your right rather than letting it flow backwards into the wetland. So, I'd be more inclined to say up to three inches, but not up to six inches.
And I have less problem with the pink spots because those are only three inches. >> Right. Okay. Um >> in on the entire is it >> Chuck? Are you at all concerned about her house flooding?
>> Yeah. And I can speak to to that too. Um so related to the 3 to six inches. The six inches is just to bring it closer to the level of the rest of the lawn. So right now that whole part of the lawn dips down. So it wouldn't be like we
were creating a new high point. Um but then to the point about is that going to dump more water into the neighbor's yard, we did have a conversation with them um before they signed off on their permission with the building permit and
have in writing that if what the work that we do that we do sends more water into their yard, we will work with them on some type of amelioration project. Um, and Ian was confident about that because of the way that he's envisioning
that the sloping is is just going into the wetlands. Um, >> so I was concerned um so it didn't look to me and I didn't study it as um let's say I was like a
carpenter and someone said I'm getting a you know leaks in my basement. So, I wasn't looking like that. Was really standing in about the green area. And we went I went there to talk about the fence, but what I heard was six inches over the existing land. And there's a
very high spot. And I said six inches on top of that. And I think the neighbor has added soil in the back of their yard. So, it's like significantly above like everyone else's grade. So, I was thinking, is this is this what we're talking about here? Is everyone trying
to fix their flooding problem by adding a bunch of soil on the back of their their yard? Um, and that was my concern. And my So, most of my concern is like not to approve it when it's not something the conservation commission approved and when it's not something so
dimminimous that you guys wouldn't get mad at me. I mean, although, you know, you think that that's not a thing, but it is. I don't want to take away your authority. So, this seemed to be something that I didn't have any direction on.
And and it also from the description sounded like it was a lot of fill. I looked at the highest point and I said six inches above that. Wow. You know, I'm not I'm not sure I could say yes to that. I think it's exactly what I said out there in the field.
>> Does this reopen the drainage conversation though now? I mean, like what we've been referring to. So, we had a separate vote. >> I don't think it has to. I I mean, I think it it seems to me that something could be done in that one corner, but um,
you know, I question why Ian told us knowing that there would be six inches above what's there, why why a pipe couldn't couldn't fit between the existing groundwater table and the additional six inches.
Um, I'm just going to say I would not approve six inches on top of the highest point. I would think the highest point should get zero and the lower point should get some soil, but the highest point should not get any higher than it is now.
>> Um, just a technical question. It wasn't on the agenda. Are we allowed to vote on this or do we just vote on whether we think this is administrative approval or minor plan change? Can we actually approve making this
change tonight? This is I I think we're just um establishing what Eleanor thinks we agreed to and what you guys are going to do. So, no votes needed, but if this sounds to be
something that you've approved, then you can just say, "Yeah, we we agree with that." But if it's not, then we have some uh we have to do something different. >> Pardon me, but I I thought the Colt system that's shown was being removed.
>> It is. There's no, >> but it says Coltech roof infiltration system. It's showing two rectangles. >> Yeah, that's the old plan. And we agreed at a recent meeting that they didn't
have to put that in because when they dug the pit, it was too full of water and it wasn't going to work. >> Yeah, but that's the reason I was surprised it's still on the drawing. >> Yeah, I'm sorry. And that's that's my doing. I didn't have Ian
update the drawing. I just took the one that I had that was approved and drew my own bubbles on it. >> We get through this. Can we uh appoint Brian and Ma to go out there? I'll go too and we'll just make a decision. You're gonna have to have more time than
the last time. Uh and maybe we can do this on Monday or Tuesday. >> Will Brian be back by then? >> Thought he was only going to uh Las Vegas for the weekend. >> First you said Montana, now you're saying Las Vegas. Whatever.
>> He's gonna stay in one spot. >> He'll be back. I I don't know his when he's coming on, but you and me could go out there. >> No. >> Are you guys okay with that? >> Anybody else want to go with us? >> Is it Is it six inches of lom fill or is there additional like rock fill
underneath it? >> Just soil is my understanding. And then we'll plant seed on top and then depending >> I'm around I'll go. I just don't know when you plan on going. I'll look at my schedule. >> Yeah, because I it would be great just to >> I've been there once. I had
>> if you see it And it's okay. You know, I I thought that maybe 6 in would need a retaining wall at some point so we don't alter the wetland. >> It's like six inches. I think the long gets really squishy, doesn't it? >> Yeah. >> What's that?
>> Long. It will get it'll get squishy, too. >> Six inches. >> Well, I where they're proposing that >> everywhere where they're proposing is going to be solid >> lawn. I mean, it is pretty solid except when you go below that where she's
asking to put in six inches in this green area. It is soft, >> but it won't be soft when they're finished, >> but it will be 3 to six inches. So, to your point about like a drop off wall, I don't think we would have like six inches and then wetlands six inches
below. It would again just be like sloping down so that it gets gradually and gradually closer to the wetlands and then once you know it nears the wetlands line. >> Does that make sense? >> So it's 3 to six >> now hit 10:00. So, let's uh schedule
offline a site visit for me and Chuck and anyone else who wants to go or can go and um we'll figure it out and we'll come out and check out your backyard and figure out whether we think this is going to work. >> Thank you. I appreciate your time.
>> Okay. >> All right. >> It would it would be best in the morning if that works out. Would that sound possible? Um, it would depend on the day and the time, but yeah, let's work it out.
>> Most your availability is in the afternoon. It's Tuesday. >> If not for >> just shoot up whatever time I'll I'm not super busy. >> We'll try to figure it out. >> I'll get there if I can get there. >> Okay. >> All right. I'll uh I'll reach out
tomorrow. >> Perfect. Sounds good. Okay. So, can we adjourn at 10:01. >> Thank you all. >> I move that we adjourn at 10:01.