e e e e e you see them and don't get that same ability but Walter if you see anyone who's unmuted mute them let give him a second to
uh a second to join everyone's connected how many people are out there not not many I can't see the number right now let's see eight pretty hello everyone this is Chuck
terroni readings conservation administrator this meeting will be conducted in person and remote format consistent with chapter two of the acts of 2023 which further extend certain provision of covid-19 measures regarding
remote participation in public meetings until March 31st 2025 got to keep an eye on that date please note that not all items listed may be in fact discussed and other items not listed may be brought up for discussion to the extent
formidable by law this agenda includes those matters which can be reasonably anticipated to be discussed at this meeting please note that this meeting is being recorded I'm going to do that right
now recording in progress all materials for this meeting are available at the following link which I will provide in the chat Brian Bo the conservation chair will facilitate this meeting please note that there will be a public comment
period for each hearing each vote taken tonight and at this meeting will be conducted by roll call we will begin with roll call attendance ran can you please review the agenda and take the roll call attendance sure so reviewing
the agenda our first item is to open a public hearing on a notice of intent for zero Stout Avenue uh that's going to be followed by opening a public hearing for a request for determination of applicability but right away uh with
kolis then uh we will continue a public hearing on an noi zero fine Vine Street MBTA however that will be continued at the applicant's request we get to that point uh then we will get to Old new
business uh few discussion items and that's it for tonight having said that let's do the roll call and this will be the order that we vote in when we get to that point uh
Walter Walter talet member pres Tony Tony rolus member pres Michelle member pres Marth Moore Vice chair present brianb chair present we have a quorum so call it the order at
7:05 okay um I guess we're ready for the first one um is there anybody out there for one assistant DPW director Michael kman okay um hello we have somebody doing the
minutes this week um I'll do it's gonna be a short one so I'll do it okay um that took forever on the last one okay um so Mike you want to uh take us through this do you want to uh do you
want to read the blur or you want me to read the blur I don't know no I'll read it I think we should read it each time that's why I was asking if you wanted to bail out of it while you kind of get yourself together could read the B blur time and I just thinking time okay okay uh so we going to open a public hearing
on a notice of intent followed by Michael cman assistant DPW director pursuant the Massachusetts General Law chapter 131 section 40 the wetlands protection act and nor the reading Wetland protection bylaw section 7.1 the applicant proposes after the
fact approval for completed work of a water fountain for both dogs and humans to include waterline trenching and a concrete slab all of the work is within the buffer zone to a bordering vegetated Wetland the application and plans can be viewed during regular business hours at
the Town Hall conservation office 16 low Street Reading Mass and on the conservation division page under the project by year assessors map 43 lock 33 the EP file 27-0 is that correct
uh no that's there's no uh Mike kesman there's no uh there's no DP F no DP the first one right yeah no DP so Mike could you uh introduce yourself and your kids for the
record my name is Michael kesman I'm the assistant director of the reading DPW this is my son Brighton he's here with me for moral and emotional and technical support and guidance I'm I also lost my Pokemon card book and he
lost his Pokemon card book and his mother is not home right now okay go ahead and let us Mike do you want me to share the screen uh oh yes please I can do that I think he's all right so here we go I have the plan from
the um I have the plan showing and you see this this is from the storage uh containers that we put in so we're using that plan again yep thank you so this is an after Thea permit for a water fountain to be
installed uh in this area it's within the 100 foot buffer zone it is a water fountain um that will be both for dogs and for humans um and the story here is that the DPW as I understand I wasn't working with for the town of reading at this
point but last year a water service line was installed um bringing the Water Service up to grade above grade actually and then at some point in the recent months um we went and installed the water fountain
itself um including Excavating for a concrete base and installing uh the Water Fountain um and again this is an after Thea permit um I don't necessarily have the full story on
how uh we got to where we are right now um but I am here to uh to apply for the after Thea permit um with you guys uh and a sign of good faith and um and uh that's kind of where we're at
here okay thank you um anybody in the commission have questions comments observations and I will mention how incredibly cold it was that day when we went out to look at the storage unit um oh stop it it was freezing that day okay
um anybody here have any questions comments or anything my biggest concern is not erosion into the Wetland from the work that has already been done but erosion that might happen due to use of
this water fountain and I would like to see the wetlands protected from that kind of erosion okay any but you're concerned about water running off and I'm concerned about um a lot of dog feet tearing up
the grass around the thing and the soil running off into the Wetland and creating gullies and things like that so I think need to do something to um put a burn put perious pavers around the water
fountain something like that so that the um place where the water fountain is is surrounded by soil that used to be grass and I don't want that all getting chewed up and making a big puddle that makes
the mud mud running off into the wetlands I have idea how about you just put concrete around it no we don't want to put concrete please that's all I had to say anybody else have anything is Walter's hand up I don't see his hand up no I
don't see his hand up okay um not seeing anything else then so this is an after the fact permit application and when we're doing that we have to put ourselves in the mindset of
would we have approved it um had they come come to us in the proper way and so so in doing that I was looking at uh where it ended up being in proximity to
both the the wetlands and to a um natural heritage an endangered species area that's where the amphibians go and I use the gis map today I admit that's not exactly precise but it was only
about 37 to 40 feet something like that so it's fairly close um on the one hand there is a fence between where the water fountain is and the wetlands but nonetheless that's pretty
close um I understand that while there was a delineation done of much of the Wetland the area essentially behind the fence was not lineated so given that for background
the first thing I'd like to see is an alternative analysis um because it's likely we would have asked for that had it come through uh proper channels as far as other places the water station could be uh one
that still achieved the purpose of the water fountain without being so close to wetlands in the natural heritage area um so that's the first thing I would looking for Mike is an alternative analysis um the second thing is I have
some conc concerns about the as not of delineation behind the fence um I don't suppose you have anything to add on that any idea about that in terms of the location the location was um
selected because there's a water line an underground water line immediately right there so the DPW was able to dig one small trench one small hole tap the waterline and break a service pipe vertically to the surface sure thereby
minimizing the amount of disturbance trenching excavation Etc that was required um so that is why the location was kind of selected um uh for this for this this location okay um but but again
from our perspective our responsibility is protect the wetlands it's not in our prview to be thinking about conveni and what have you um for DPW so going back to um where I was asking is do you have
any idea about the delineation of the area behind the fence uh my only real knowledge about the delineation behind the fence would be during our site meeting um when we were out there and um I believe you guys were kind of standing on the other side
of the fence and we took a tape measure and we measured um what we thought was the distance between between the water fountain and the wetlands at that time y that that's true um that was us essentially eyeball in it um that's not an official delineation so there isn't
one in place at the moment so I guess the way I'm seeing it is um I I do want an alternative analysis if you did not want to do a delineation of that
area Beyond the fence you could agree tonight to move the water fountain and then it would be moved someplace where the lack of a existing delineation wouldn't be a problem because it would go further away um just in getting a
perid going forward righty you have a spot in mind um move it not really I've put some thought into it um I was thinking that across the parking lot somewhere near where the kiosk is might be a place to start
thinking uh the ground is level there before there's a slope up to the to the uh the level of the field itself so you wouldn't have a hill to worry about uh at least not much of an uphill to worry about but I
certainly didn't do any designs or anything um where would that be on this map that we're looking at now oh yeah you're gonna ask me that okay so I can switch to the gis if you want but I think we're up here I think these are toal lines they're starting to climb
in this area right here are you talking about the kiosk if you take the pathway to the right as you enter the field where the path turns from asphalt to gravel over by where the old gate was where the gate still is so so when you come in the entrance from Grove Street
that's where you're going to be putting the the fence in and essentially almost right across that parking area SL Road there's a uh kiosk that was put up by Boy Scouts a year or so ago a wooden kiosk with a little roof on it so I was
thinking somewhere around there uh I'm not saying that's a perfect place I don't know how that would work with the kiosk there although best I can see that kiosk isn't used so there may not be any interaction that's a problem but
something like that that way you don't have to go up there Hill to the level of the field itself um but it does still mean going across the pavement it looks like the waterline might cross in more or less
that direction from the the chart that went away in M go um they put the the water fountain at a place where there was a pipe if you look
at that diagram the pipe seems to go across the parking lot to the other side so it might not require digging a long trench in just a whole I'm not aware of that because my understanding is it goes the line goes from the
hydrant which is right there inside the fence from Str have um and it runs 12 feet to where it comes up into the station so I don't think there's anything going across the pavement
gr um yep so right about there is where the kiosk is uh and you can see the white shading above that that's the uh slope of the hill going up to the field itself likewise the one uh going off to the right along the road that's also the
slope going up to the field itself so I think if you could find a place on that lower level um but further away the other thing you want to bear in mind right where the road comes in from
the compost area on the right hand side that's where you have the trash barrel in the gis again not 100% accurate but in the gis it shows that as Wetland as well in fact it shows Wetland
going onto the road there so let's assume it's not entirely accurate but but it goes right to the lower half of the road at the where is that right here Brian on the um yeah you r that area up a little bit but yeah so you propos you
want the the barrel and the fountain on the opposite side of the road you might as well get the barrel get the barrel out of out of the wetlands um not all poop bags make it into the barrel sometimes they on the ground around it if that is in fact Wetlands which is
what the gsjs is showing then and they're essentially throwing poop bags into the weapons that doesn't make any sense when it can be moved 12 15 feet across the road there those little black marks are the boulders that have been placed along the
the road to prevent vehicles from going up on the on the field um in in terms of relocating the water fountain and I would have to confer with my colleagues on this but I have a strong feeling that uh if the commission requires us to
trench through the asphalt and to run a new water line that um the appetite might not be there to do that and that instead we would propose to remove the water fountain and abandon it okay I guess what I would say is we're not
mandating that you have to go across the pavement at least what I'm saying and the commission obviously gets a vote what I'm saying is where it is isn't good so if you can find some other location we don't have to trench through
the pavement and it satisfies the requirements of the Wetland protection act then I'm open to listening to it which is why I was asking for an alternative analysis in the first place um I only was talking about this place because Chuck asked do a place in mind
this is one place in mind I recognize there are some negatives to it but the negatives are not from the weapon protection U perspective it's more from the uh DPW perspective understood and to Martha's
Point um if it was to remain where it was I think that we would be able to install some type of surface treatment be it Stone um or some other type of surface pavers etc for some distance around the
water fountain that would um serve to minimize any erosion from foot traffic of dogs and humans Etc um but I I don't know if um if I'll be able to to get us to to run a new order line to relocate it to any
location uh other than where it is right now and I'm sorry to say that but I I don't see that again I'd have to talk to my colleagues but I'm not I'm not sure if I'd be able to do that so I understand that um does that mean you
want us to continue for now while you take it back to them M if that's what you're requesting then yes I will go back and talk to I'm actually not requesting because a continuent has to be from the applicant
I'm saying that if you can't speak without talking to your colleagues and I understand that then I'm not sure what our next step here would be other than to continue I don't see us relocating the water fountain and any other location that it's in today
could you put back up the plan I'm I'm sorry to say that no I I understand Mike um okay there's the water fountain all right is
going to the right on this diagram there's a thing that's got two lines parallel to each other come down more that is that a pipe of some sort Cat TV would be cable television
and the T would be telephone so those are overhead wires coming off of the telephone pole right there the the underground water line it doesn't appear to be shown on this plan but those are all overhead wires coming off of the telephone pole right there yeah okay that makes sense thank
you okay Mike so I understand that you think that that it may not be something you folks are willing to consider but at this point I I think we have a conversation to have and we should
continue for now hey so Mike what is the um ohw mean on the plan i' I've overhead overhead wire okay I actually don't even know that we had it at the range okay no I'm just I'm just searching for where
this water line might be but um I'm not 100 % sure the water L where the water line is so I mean that could be you know something I look into a little more and um we show where the water line is on you know if we do continue the hearing
so at the lower part of the uh screen the H road coming in from the left yeah that's actually stav the one below you is not named it just goes to the compost and out to Grove but on the inside corner of where the where Stout a join
the parking area right down below that there's a telephone pole with a street light on it and near that there's a hydrant and the hydrant they took a line off the hydrant and ran like 10 feet or so towards that toe so it's it's within
a few feet of the pavement right with intersection of two roads I have to I have to apologize because this I'm looking at this plan and the the fountain location isn't shown on here I just I see the fire hydrant in the
telephone pole but I thought I thought I had the hydrant on here I I think Chuck said this plan was actually from the containers so I'm not surprised here there was there was a plan I I thought we had submitted a plan that showed the um the F the fountain in proximity to
the hydrant I don't know off it's possible it's there and Chuck just has yeah we can look I set up the plans uh to check out um just a question while thinking about
Alternatives analysis we have the lovely new parking lot further up Grove Street are there any fire hydrants near there that the water fountain could be placed in that Pro proximity the water is on
Grove Street so it would be similar to a new home construction where you would have to tap the main in the street and trench through the parking lot which is a much higher elevation than the road I think that you know in terms of the location that was selected it was
really not just ease of of the work to be done but the minimizing the impact I mean you know we're talking about any relocation you're going to have to dig a 4 foot trench you know and that significant excavation you know from wherever you're going to run where you
grab the water that significant disturbance so I mean i' just like to bring that up too that if we do you know we're talking about relocating it I me that's significant excavation and significant disturbance to what's going on out there you know where the location
that was selected be it it wasn't impr approved before it was done it was very minimal in terms of its impact with where they dug and and the work that was done to tap that line okay so I don't have a I don't have a plan uh
I looked through the application and uh it might be in my email but it's uh this is the plan that you know I must have I must have sent the wrong one in with the I know why I'm sorry the plan that I'm talking about just Zooms in on the area and I think it
showed the stone border proposed Stone border and a stone Pathway to the area okay so can we have a motion then to continue this um until until when how much time do you think you need
to talk with the poers that be so why don't you go over the request it seems like three you want an alternative analysis you want a delineation of the wetlands back of the back of the fence it's basically that area that doesn't
hit the 100 foot buffer zone but it's in back of the fence and the third would be mov move the or don't do either one of those and and move the water fountain and then we at least need a plan that can show show us where the
water line runs how it runs left and right so let's say it runs up to where Brian has uh suggested the water fountain then it would be uh it would be very interesting we don't know where it runs at this point I believe it ends at
the at the water fountain I think was extended from the hydrant further away from gr Street towards but might as well see but those are the three those are the three that I have any any other ones from the commission members any other I think Tony and I would both like to see the plan that Mike submitted that we
haven't had a chance to see here absolutely I think that was part of the three I put I hear it that's fine yeah sorry and I I would like to if this water fountain did not get moved and did get approved I would like to see what
conditions we would put on it to prevent erosion into the Wetland I think one step at a time well yeah what conditions we would put on it we we we would no not ask that way we would say to the applicant we're concerned about erosion and degra degrading the area around that
come up with something that won't allow that and we like to review that yeah and then we approve we'll put conditions on well and also I want to see maintenance of whatever the solution is because given the amount of activ activity I
think we expect I don't know how it will stand up but one thing at a time time the first thing is get the information we asked for and then make a decision on location yeah so where where it is right now and just think about how
to I'm just going to say simply Hardscape it so we don't get that muddy Mucky uh maybe in a rainstorm runs off in the back um and that could be a lot of things we're going to let you design that yeah or think about that and then
the other requests well then okay can I have a motion to continue do you want to say the next meeting Mike sure okay uh which is february6 I move to continue this
hearing to February 26 this is T second Walter toppets in favor Tony rakis in favor those all in favor Marth Moore in favor rbo in favor okay thanks Mike okay thank you
guys have a nice night thanks Mike okay so next one is the right away um from kis and I will read the blur because it's my favorite thing to do um you want want me to read the blur you talk to much as it
is okay open the public hearing on a request for determination ability followed by kis under the Massachusetts weapon protection act mgl chapter 131 paragraph 40 Andor reading Wetland
protection bylaw section 7.1 the applicant proposes maintenance control and maintain activities for the years 2026 to 2030 all the workers within the 100 foot buffer zone to a border bordering vegetated Wetland the
application and plans can be viewed during regular business hours at the Town Hall conservation office 16 low Street Reading and on the conservation division page the project by year assessors map 20 lot
53 is that D 20 is that missing D assess map uh deals right away so assesses map 20 lot 53 this is uh an RDA so we don't get a file number from so it's 2025
D1 okay have said that is there anybody out there who's going to walk us through this yeah can you hear me this is Matt Donovan from Benish yes we can uh Matt can I just put something up first and
could you explain this this is the exemption email that you sent me I just want it out there so if we could just talk about this so it's in the record how you're exempt from the local bylaw
so yeah so Kus um because it's MBTA property um the question had come up if we if we uh notified the abuts and we that's a local bylaw um for rdas for the
abutters to be notified and um MBTA as a political subdivision of the Commonwealth is exempt from local bylaws and fees um yeah so if if I if I may so the um so
kilus has presented uh this um statement and they bring this to every town and through the Wetland protection act uh a request for determination of applicability is subject to notification
but only through the local newspaper with certain circulation but we make that with our local newspaper so 10.05 3B uh says that the applicant must meet the uh advertising
criteria and uh advertise it a local newspaper but it doesn't say anything about sending out individual um uh legal notices to voters within 100 feet 200 feet so that's
that's silence that doesn't have to happen and the um local bylaw exemption is uh the local bylaw is where we find that additional uh requirement that's added by the towns which is to notify
individual households that are within a 100 or within this town it's 300 feet of the project but that brings us to the third point which this is not really a project this is a review this is more
more or less uh in the wetlands protection act since it's under um the agriculture uh you know herbicide application go maintenance it's we're only reviewing
the maps and um so therefore the uh linear project for more than a th000 feet does not apply so in this one here has come to town a few times since I've been here I
think this might be the third time and you know typically our role is to look at the railway from one end of town to the other talk about any changes that uh we know about uh you know an
additional Vernal pool additional sensitive area maybe an area that needs more treatment and uh we asked to be left alone in a previous version of this uh and and and then Matt will talk about you know the particulars of what that
team does whether they do it every year whe they do it every other year or whether there are no no restrictions on that so our Maps the maps that we received Tonight Show those three things uh maintenance every other year maintenance every year and no
restriction areas which are not don't have any colors at all on them so mant that was a long way of getting to the point but but I did want to bring this um uh this letter into the record and I appreciate your
patience yeah thank you for that I think that cleared it up well um is there any other stop screen sharing and you can I don't know if you have um any of this information you want to put up you want to put up the maps or you want me to put up the Maps doesn't matter uh I was
going to pull up the map but if you want to that's the same thing for me and um I don't know if you have any questions regarding specific areas later maybe it' be easier for you to control it um but I'd be happy to I have it ready here okay if you'd
like yeah why don't you do that let you say rest so you're doing it's like you've done this before all right so um if you can see those these are the maps that we've you make that uh as large as I mean a lot
larger than you have there I just key in on here that's pretty good thank you yeah and I can go through I can go through these um after I give a little presentation of like what's in included
um and show the rest of the pages because there is it does go on to several Pages um but for now um this RDA is to confirm the accuracy of the maps as Chuck mentioned um used with the herbicide application
along the commuter rail right ofo the RDA is submitted to your commission every five years as required by cmr1 and it's required to get these determinations before submitting The Five-Year vegetation plan to Mass Department of agricultural
resources um I'm happy to go over what the work that's mentioned here in the RDA and what's done each year relating to chemical apption but as Chuck mentioned the RDA is specific to confirming the accuracy of the maps your commission will have the opportunity to weigh in on
the plan during the ve VMP review process um that will be submitted to MD in mid to late summer um the vegetation management plan is designed to manage control vegetation to keep the railroad Operation Safe um
regulations are in place to keep the sensitive areas protected throughout the duration of the plan and these sensitive area restrictions can be found in CMR 11.04 as well as our vegetation management plan the maps here um are made for the
chemical portion of the plan but often dictate where mechanical methods will be used due to chemical restrictions um there are two main chemical applications each year one that happens in the May to June time frame and this targets specifically the road
bed and one that happens in August September time frame that targets the brush areas adjacent the brush in the areas adjacent to the road bed um the sensitive areas marked with the blue and yellow um only receive the road bed
application so that's what I'll focus on um because that's the only program that takes place near these sensitive areas um the road bed application is performed by a spray truck that is a high rail vehicle that drives on the track and is equipped with nozzles that
on the back side of it located about 18 inches above the ground that sprayed the solution directly down onto the track um the truck has Booms that extend out to Target the shoulders of the road bed um up to 12 feet from the center of
track the certified applicator is always accompanied by an environmental monitor familiar with the site conditions and equipped with these Maps instructing the operator as necessary um the applicator has the ability to turn all the nozzles off or in many cases just one or both of
the side booms so the mixture only sprays directly down onto the track and not onto the shoulders where it may be getting into the buffer zone of a sensitive area um the yellow zones typically represent when the track is within 22 feet of a wetland
boundary um and I say 22 feet because the booms Supply the mixer 12 feet from the center line um and it's critical to keep that 10 foot buffer from the sensor areas to conform with the regulations in the yellow zones they typically don't receive any treatment however in some
cases the track will be sprayed directly down up to the edge of the tie um this is done at the advocator environmental monitor discretion as long as it's done within the regulations um the blue zones typically represent being within 100 feet of
sensitive areas and these zones typically receive a full Road bed treatment but the environmental Monitor and advocator or on alert to shut the booms off if there's any um areas adjacent or on shoulder that are wet including if there's water in the ditches they'll they'll shut those booms
off to not apply in those areas the light blue zones can be sprayed every one year which is the minimal interval minimum interval in conformance with the regulations and dark blue zones which are typically um more water supply areas
can only be sprayed once every two years um for this road bed treatment um which is the minimum interval um in the in these blue and yellow zones due to the limited spray more effort is put into controlling the vegetation um with physical and
mechanical measures um the chemicals that are used each year are typically chosen by the certified applicator in coordination with kolis um with that said all chemicals are from the approved sensitive area material list provided by Mass Department of agricultural
resources um we we include this mixture in the yearly operational plan that we send to commiss to your commission every year um and with that said I'm happy to answer any questions and go through these Maps U if not we're seeking a
positive 2A and a negative um determination as your commission has has uh issued in the past okay thank you um any question from the commission I have a question about the
uh the letter um the letter that that we have in front of us from asdot and the way it was explained has absolute exemption from local bylaws and local fees we received a similar letter from
the same applicant from MBTA kolis a couple of meetings ago um that's a little bit different than than that um we re the last otor that that we received which is part of the the
application and on the website is dated July 26 2012 and there's a paragraph at the end of page two it says while mbta's immunity from Municipal bylaws is firmly established uh this exemption is not absolute a municipal bylaw regulation
can apply to an exempt entity in the very limited circumstances where that regulation serves in important purpose and would either have no effect at all or merely negligible effect on the entity's ability to fulfill its essential government
function so it seems like this applicant is giving us two different interpretations and I'm a little confused now which one we're supposed to follow what letter are you he's actually referring to a decision from I forget which court the
decision was sent to us um for a previous hearing that we had a couple weeks ago so Matt doesn't have that letter what Matt doesn't have the letter that's last one no but it's it's the same applicant
ultimately right so so I want to speak we we we have an applicant that had two separate hearings is submitted two different two no I'm I'm just saying I should provide that letter to Matt so he can answer the question I mean maybe not tonight but but he doesn't he wasn't
able to review this yeah I'd be happy to to take a look um I do see one is isn't one has the MBTA and the other one says keis yeah the other one I think only in N bta's operator no you exactly right
but I'm and I'm not sure they were reviewed by the same person but what's what are the differences that you see the more recent letter that we have in front of us
uh appears to state that the exemption is is absolute it doesn't it doesn't mention that it's not absolute the way that the previous letter does the previous letter gives circumstances where where a bylaw could be invoked if it's significant and if it
doesn't impede their their function so I'm I'm just bringing that up because may maybe they're you know in in in the possibility that that maybe we we have a bylaw that that we'd like to consider in
implementing this or you know but also in in terms of of a precedent yeah so I don't want to speak for the applicant but the difference I believe is this letter we're looking at tonight is stating the
regulation what you're talking about the last time was a decision that the court made in response to a town or a city uh pushing back on that exemption and in
that decision the judge wrote that the exemption is not absolute and then the uh conditions you talked about so it's not really two different views there's this view which is the the rules and the
other one is here's how a judge interpreted when it was challenged but if we felt then that if there was a circumstance that our bylaw needed to to cover we'd be able to do that given the conditions that you
talked about yes okay right um I just want to clarify in the blurb that um Brian read There were the words maintenance used a few times is
that only maintenance of the vegetation and we're not talking about any sort of Maintenance of me mechanical engines or anything like that diesel trains on the track in
Reading yes this RDA is specific to vegetation management um I mean it's specific to confirming the maps accuracy um used for vegetation management plan um so it's it's limited
to the work that's in the vegetation management plan which only is vegetation management yeah so nothing like um mechanical like trains or anything like that okay and you've said that we are
not discussing the particulars of the vegetation management tonight because that comes up at another hearing yeah the actual work itself we're required to get these determinations of of the accuracy of the
Wetland boundaries before we're even able to submit the vegetation management plan to the DAR um as it's permited at that State level once we do submit once we get these determinations we submit the vegetation management plan we notify
your commission the DAR notifies your commission um there's a 45 day comment period there's and it goes through a um it goes through a a board of people
made a board a board made up of people from the D the D um con Mac I believe um and then that and at that point they they either approve deny or request modifications to the vegetation
management plan but in that process there's a 45 day comment period um where any any issues regarding the or concerns regarding the work can be brought up okay thank you so it's sounds like
what we should be doing tonight is having Matt go through his series of pictures and have us understand where the wetlands are compared to the tracks yeah I've got one other question before and this is for
for my own information does this vegetation plan apply only to living vegetation or Does it include um clearing out piles of leaves that that may be clogging up a a culvert or removal of of stag or large
branches yeah if there's ever I mean it's in cis's best interest to keep the drainage um the drainage working properly so if there's ever there's ever CTS or ditches that aren't working properly they did it is they do um have
maintenance activities included where they would go in in clear ditches and clear CTS and um is yeah a separate plan or or I'm just curious if the vegetation plan is is
only for for cutting back living growing vegetation and and and if the other type of Maintenance falls under a different type of plant no I I maintaining ditches and and um Culvert is within does fall within the vegetation management plan
thank you anything alter anything okay so before we go back to Matt um I have a couple of questions in particular the first is I'm wondering when these Maps were created and before
you answer um because there was recently some significant work done at the mlet SS and Morgan Conservation area which is up by Willow Street it's like the uh last map
in your display it's it's three three or four yeah and so I'm just wondering what this depicts I mean I don't know for a certainty that any of the boundaries changed I don't know they didn't so I'm wondering when this was
created so the actual maps and delineations were created um back in back whenever the origination of the vegetation man management plan was created which is back in like the late 80s I believe um however these maps have
been updated throughout the years we've we've increased the scale of them we've gone out I was personally out in the field in this area putting new markings down um as the old ones Fade Away um so these markings have been updated within the
last year um and as you me as you mentioned whether or not the wetlands would have changed in this area they would still even if they did change slightly the boundary of these Wetlands it
wouldn't change the the markings in the field as far as dark blue blue or yellow um unless it change the character of the vegetation right because the work that
was done uh they worked on the abona River where it ran through that Conservation Area they created storage pools to hold uh storm water surges for a while but in the course of doing that
um it is certainly possible that the the extent of it may have changed uh and so you said that was done the last year that work was finished mid this year earlier this year so these
Maps may not capture whatever um that work ended up doing to the boundaries and I don't know what that is so would you think that would be covered in this conversation would that be part of the vegetation management
plan well that would be part of the maps um so you're saying in this area there's there's areas along the track that may have either closer or further away from the track um shifted on the right hand
side of the track um where the cursor is uh for example that uh channel is cleared going under the track um the wetlands going down to the southeast and that view um may have extended there's a
beaver dam in there which has constricted the flow to some extent I don't know what the cumulative effect is and so I'm just that's that's all can say I don't know what it is I don't know that there's not an effect
though so yeah whether whether or not you're you're saying basically this green um outline boundary of the Wetland may have shifted slightly um from this new new Wetland um and if it was going
to shift it most likely would move to the South East um just because there's a road uh at top and I don't think it go up Beyond it but I I think it's most likely if it happened it went to the southeast right and what I'm saying is
it it very well may have and that would that would change the outline the green line um but it wouldn't change the the actual markings in the field they would still continue to stay um dark blue so it's still delineated
correctly in terms of um the the zone for chemical application for it to constitute a yellow zone it would have to come up right at the Wetland itself would have to come pretty much right up within 20
feet of the track um let me gu this the the um two different colors blue one is a two-year inter interval and one is a oneyear interval what correct which what determines which one is selected so the dark it's dark blue in
this area specifically for the the D Zone too which is a a water supply area I see um but if if it wasn't for this pink pink outline DS zone two this would
all just be a regular light blue color through here I understand I didn't realize that that's what it was I thought it was actually trying to uh identify sensitive areas in certain vegetation okay uh one more question if you go to
the to the very first map so 104 so um that yellow swath is labeled as a Zone a can you tell me what that is yeah let me uh pull that up just so I
don't misspeak I have that um but is that a d designation yeah I think it has to do with um also has to do with water supply area um let me go back to my map I just don't
want to misspeak I know I know that the actual um so is no that's a Zone too yeah all I have is a surface water
protection area all right so let's let's go with that thought that is broadly speaking surface water protection area can you go back back to the map please yes okay so um on that swath you can see
where the track goes down to the southeast about halfway through the swath it changes from uh one type of control to another can you tell me why that is so I believe the
yellow is yellow here because it's within there's a covert here and it's within I think the yellow is for the actual green Wetland itself and as you can see there's a wetland right up against the track for this whole length from wak field to the center of the
swath so you're saying it's coincidence that it happens to change in the middle of that yellow ribbon well the yellow I mean the you can see the green line end right where the yellow to
Blue changes right so that's up against the uh the mound of the track itself yeah this is basically saying the Wetland is within 22 feet of the center line of track and in this area um they probably
wouldn't spray at all depending on how close that Wetland does come to the center of track if it's if it's within if it's closer than if it's closer than um 12 feet from the center of track
they won't spray anything but if it if it's like for if it's between 12 and 22 feet from the center of track they may elect to to only spray directly down um onto the actual ties themselves yeah it's
just that um going up to the northwest the yellow line ends right at the boundary of the wetlands so I don't know how that provides the margin you just talking about it seems like that's the end of the wetlands and bang you start
spraying you know inches later to overstate it you mean I'm I'm wondering so right where the the light blue yellow intersection is where one ends the other begins that's also where the boundary
for the Wetland is right right so I would have expected if it's a no spray Zone within a certain distance of the Wetland that it would have extended further away from that corner
rather than stopping right on that corner yeah I think it does extend slightly past it um and OB there's a there's a a stream here too I mean this could
be this could be an area that we can review in the field as well because it does it does Come Close um I don't know how this looks like an intermittent stream here that continues beyond the Wetland so maybe that would constitute
an extension of the yellow Zone on this south side of the track yeah however I'm I think I would I would imagine it's it's delineated accurately from what the actual field conditions are and
it's kind of hard to tell from this um just looking at this map knowing how close you are to that Wetland from the center land of track um the problem is that we are are in the position where we're reviewing the maps and what you're
saying is the map may not be given uh accurate a perfect view of it that the conditions in the field may make May suede what we seeing on the map so then it's hard to review this if the
map isn't going to be uh the gold standard if you will no I mean I think it is um and like and we're we're definitely open to year review um we that's why we've submitted these maps for year review and
um if there was any areas in the field that you want to take closer look at we would have been happy to go look at them um whether it's whether it was before this meeting or past this meeting um it's something that we definitely can
look into we want these to be as accurate as possible as they are used for for pretty sensitive work um to be done and we are we're just as aware of that as your commission is um so we do want them to be accurate what I'm saying
is I think I think it is accurately um portrayed it it it does look like the Wetland does get very close to the track in this area and I'm not I'm not sure yeah it it could be worth looking
at in the field is what I'm saying Mar moving a little further Northeast Northwest on that track um just where new Crossing Road
crosses um somewhere in there is a gas station which we've just been working with and there's definitely a wetland between the um gas station and the um
gasoline gas propane gas kind of place um if you zoom in it might be easier to see that but I'm wondering if that's not marked on this map so new crossing road so we want to go closer to 128 sh crossing road is it
off the page yeah yeah I don't think it's on shell station's on towards the end of it okay down to the so isn't the Shell station in reading so does this page not include at wers Brook and a little faster
cross okay um down with like the green circle like the Market Basket so that white Chuck are you controlling this no okay Matt can you move it so we can see the lower right corner
better okay so there's the Wakefield line so that white roof that's uh Na's building okay so that's the task the old task right corner you're talking about the gas station no the gas station is further to the right
than that old task building and the Big Wide yellow highlighted stripe yeah is that property boundary between reading and Wakefield or what that's the Zone a that I've been the Zone a okay so so
where would our gas station be would it be off the page to the right it says that's Wakefield I suspect right where that um it's more upper right all the natural gas like that little gas station
or or the gas or the gas station Ro between the two of them all right so you begin a new Crossing new crossing road that further up and it's
on the right right right up there oh it's on Walker's Brook right yeah yeah right okay there's a big white splotch and it's further up north north
of that you can see the wetlands lines yeah okay so I'm I'm looking at a at a different map that I pull up on my computer it's it's the Mast I use the mass Brew of way site clean up phase one
site assessment map which shows a bunch of different layers and a bunch of natural natural resources and from what I'm looking at Brian it it it looks like based on mass D's map which may be different from what's actually in the field but based
on on the remote sensing the Wetland line ends about halfway through the Zone one where the where the color change was where that you were just discussing as you proceed to the Northwest toward uh new Crossing
M um that appears to be 100-year flood plane yeah um I understand now why I was confused I was looking at the railroad track and thinking of it as Walkers Brook Drive and um south of the railroad
track is the reading DPW Yard and also there's a business there the larger white rectangle that's at the very upper right is the building that used to be task yeah and we walked in from Walker's
Brook Drive to do a site visit for the gas company natural gas okay and then we have the gas station right near where the word Brook says okay so I think you do have that accurately marked as a wetland
then okay U someone else was going to say something yeah I was ruminating um so what would be involved if there were to be
a check at this in the field is that something that we would be involved in or is that something that somebody from your end would be doing um so it's definitely something we could we could involve you it's I'd be happy to go out there on my
own and and kind of assess the situation and come back to your commission with photos and and a a s new suggestion of delineation if it does constitute a change in what we think the marking should be um I think if anything you
would extend um I'm going to go to another page real quick just to show you what the new marking would look like if it does constitute it um so similar to here where it's dark blue and yellow on one side
yeah it would be this same concept except light blue with yellow on one side yeah kind of to extend this yellow because obvious this this Wetland on the north side of the track here doesn't extend there's no intermittent string I
mean may maybe there is but it from the looks of it there's no Wetland on the North side and you would just be kind of trying to conform to this intermittent stream on the South Side um and like I said I I was out here in
2024 just last year and I put this marking here and I I was I was making sure they were all in conformance with anything obvious so I may not have looked at this area careful enough but um I was pretty I was very um cognizant of
my surroundings throughout this whole all these site visits I was going on several site visits a a month um to to get these markings back in the field um so if that's something you'd like me to do I would I'd be happy to to set up a trip down there um at the same
time I wouldn't I wouldn't mind still trying to get a determination tonight to to kind of um move this along with a with having that as a condition um if that's amendable for for
you and your commission that is fine for me the commission obviously has to make it own decision but yeah that would be good I'm I'm not questioning your competence though it may seem that way I just didn't understand exactly what that picture was showing
so um yeah if you could do that and uh submit your findings to Chuck uh and if your findings are as you expect them to be that there's no change right and if it's a change
um what would that mean if there were a change and we had already done a negative determination is that possible to do ative determination the condition that may re open it I am I
you could you could update the map certainly could do that that's true yeah conference make you could make a a determination or finding that uh you approved everything except
for this one area and um you're looking for more input and when that comes in okay so I at least have beat this um does anybody else have any other
questions St n Chuck do you have any comments questions uh no I don't I uh I I know that there's a floodway there I think you have an a river an intermittent stream a
wetland seems like there's a lot of things happening in that area good spot to check back um if it's just been out there it seems to me that uh it would be pretty quick for you just to review that
quickly and then get back to the commission yeah okay yeah we'd be happy to do so like I said we do we want these to be as accurate as possible uh I do have high confidence in the applicator in the environmental monitor that even even if
these weren't I think they would have they would catch anything in the field anyway but you want these maps to be as accurate as possible so I want to I want to portray what's actually there um and have them be ready for it okay um then is there any comments
from anybody or online we've only looked at this one section of track oh your point I look should we more ages sure Matt that that's fine if you want why don't you walk us through each of your
um map so this is page two um as you can see there's no Wetlands until the the Wetland adjacent to the middle school and that would all be covered by this Blue Zone here um
which which is 100 feet um 100 foot boundary from the Wetland which you won't there will be no brush spray here it'll only be the road bed application a little bit say there somebody keeps talking on the phone we get that
muted if you're out there in online can you mute please can just m mute that yeah I'm trying to do that I figured it was trying okay Matt back to you yeah Matt can you stop sharing the
screen just for one second so I can understand uh the who's here and who's muted not I think it's this one here it was the 978 yeah number that's okay Walter I
don't know who that is on it yeah just don't say where come from all right it sounds like that's taken care of um if you want me to continue yeah please all right
um so this is a fairly standard Wetland um it has to be blue within 100 feet of the Wetland so they won't be spraying the um the brush application which which extends further out from the road bed
um here you have more oh we went through this page already um I don't know why this area is blue um but it's more it's more conservative than not in this area there's no I don't see any Wetlands here
but it's almost it's almost the blue represents um a restriction where they can't they can only do the roaded um application here so maybe it's
maybe there is more Wetland than there looks like in this area but but they won't it's it's more conservative than um than not and maybe it's just an extension of this Wetland that you see down in the South um
portion yeah that's the part we walked recently all right yes and then the rest of your town is um is controlled by the D Zone two um which is the the
strictest restriction we have um as far as spraying other than a yellow um covert here or bridge and these Wetlands um must creep up pretty close
to the track if this is yellow on the left side um so we cover we cover this and we won't be spraying out into the shoulder of the cell side of the track in this portion um from what I
see represent to rent okay yeah so if there's any uh if there's any areas where you have um additional questions on or concerns I'm happy to zoom in I'm satisfied thank you anybody else
anybody in the general public if you have anything to say find the reactions on the lower right and use the raiseed hand function please okay um given that then I think it's a
good time to move on and have a motion to close this hearing yeah so I just want to make sure um uh Matt what you want what you're asking for us to make a determination you said a positive
2B uh no I think we we want a negative determination and a lot of times towns will um supplement that with a positive 2A determination and the 2A would be confirming the the maps and the negative the negative
determination is is um exempting us from having to submit an noi for this so I think I think last um I know we got a negative determination from your commission
last uh five years ago when this came through I'm not sure EX exactly what number it was but it's usually a -2 3 or five exempting us from having to to submit an noi for this work in your application it says you're asking us to
consider a negative number five determination citing exemptions 1036b and 1058 6A so at least in this in this document is saying a negative number five determination
yeah that that sounds good with us um and I mean we also we would also like to have a positive 2A um for safe measure if your commission is comfortable with issuing that read those yeah
sure uh so uh negative five is the area described in the request is subject to jurisdiction under the ACT since the work described herein meets the requirements of the following exemption as specified in the Act and the regulations no notice of intent is
required that's a negative five um and then 2A the boundary delineation of the following resource area described on the reference plans are confirmed as accurate therefore the resource area boundaries
confirmed and this determination is binding as all decision rendering pursue into the Wetland protection act and the regulations regarding such boundaries for as long as determined as this determination is valid which is three years well yeah is that what this uh so
we're running three years on these or you're running further it's five years and um the actual determination itself the determination form um down near the signatures it says all all determinations are good for three years and then it says there's like in
parentheses um and I I'm not using the exact language but it says um except for rdas for R ofo vegetation management plans where it is lasts for the duration of the plan which is five
years take you word for it I can't find that real quick it's on the actual the form um the determination form yeah form two form two yeah signatures so it says appeal
and it says three years yeah AV for three years the date of issuance except for determinations for vegetation management plans which are valid for the duration of the plan so there you go yeah okay so this question that Brian is
asking about how does that impact whether we can close and issue tonight so I believe the understanding is that Matt's going to go out there and look at it if he finds that the map is accurate
as it is then there's no no change from our closing and voting tonight if he does see a change um the condition we put in would require him to up map but the uh determination would still
stand okay so I move to close this hearing this is Tony I'll second that Walter toets in favor Tony what in favor Michelle in favor baramore in favor Brian B in
favor okay can I have a motion I move for a positive 2A and a negative RDA for five years second Michelle
second Walter Walter well I didn't hear the second sorry Walter Tois in favoris in favor Michelle favor in favor Brian B in favor okay [Music] um and you're all you're all set with
that condition right Matt yeah Matt I'll hold off on sending that out until I hear from you yeah it it should be within the next um couple weeks will I'll keep you updated though um on exactly when I can get out there it might it might be based on weather too
um with like snow and everything so I'll I'll keep you updated but I'm definitely I'm definitely happy to fulfill that condition and um make sure that these are in conformance with the regulations sure can you um can you state that you wave the uh 21-day uh
requirement and that you will um uh I don't know add an additional it doesn't sound like you know when you're going out so what if I said a month so it's a month and 21 days so we have 41 days do I have that right
30 40 51 days teacher thank you yeah I can I can definitely shoot to get it done before then I do I do um wave the 21-day condition um and I will I will definitely keep you
updated 51 days okay yeah we'll we'll do that um and if it comes in earlier we'll just send it out earlier but yes okay thank you good thank you thanks everyone have a good night thanks for joining us
tonight okay okay next one is uh zero Vine Street uh this is a continuation of a public hearing this is um situation where the applicant has asked for continuance until February
26 can I have a motion I move to continue the hearing on zero Vine Street to February 26 this Tony I second Walter toppets in favor Lo this in favor Michelle in favor Martha Moore
in favor Brian B in favor okay that's it for our hearings tonight um next is old new business violation notices is um the only one where there's been
any activity is 445 um Chuck why don't you give us an update on that uh I haven't I have not heard from the uh owner or uh either either
one of the Mr or the dad Jack Rivers so um but they understand that they're supposed supposed to be updating the plan and giving it back to the Conservation Commission I don't really know the reason why we don't have that update okay so then what are options
going forward from here we could continue to wait yeah I I have to say that they they usually get back to me I'm not sure the reason why you know there's three people I haven't heard from Jack in a couple of years but I usually hear from Michael or
his wife um and I haven't so it's unusual they might be traveling I'm not sure but there's there's usually what I would say good communication I agree that I've heard
them reach out to you many times so again our options are to continue to wait I hope that there's some communication [Music] uh an alternative to that is to begin the fine
process um this is already in enforcement order so we don't have that level to escalate it to I tell you what I'll stop talking for a minute what do you guys think on one hand it's it's been a long time on the other hand it's been a cold three
or four weeks terms of getting anything done in the field but we're just looking for an updated plan right we're not looking for field work until we approve what the fieldwork is so we're looking for an updated plan because Martha and I went out
there um to say that what was done was not according to the approved plan and while we there H Jack and his son Mike who's a property owner talk to us and said
they'd like to submit um an amended plan a change of plan we in the end agreed that they could uh very soon thereafter it is passed that deadline at this point and
by deadline that's too strong a word it wasn't a date certain it was here's your target I think they promised us either a January meeting or the first February meeting and they would have had to submit it a week before the first seary
com so so they've missed that date regardless of how certain it was so yes it's been cold as you said this has been going a long time this started before as on the commission by the time I got on the commission it was already an
enforcement order when I'm my first site visits was to go there to review with the the uh engineer I think it is from uh Williams and spages that was reviewing the plan to rectify what had
been done so this is five years in the making or something what are we waiting for what are we waiting for we're waiting for them to do it the way we ask them to do it you got to do something so we were expecting it the last me five years I mean weeks
but but we haven't had a firm deadline firm deadline for the next meeting and from there we escalate BL neglect yeah I mean that's so say again what you were suggesting one more meeting it's the
third strike right we were expecting something at the end of January the first meeting of February with the admission that the date wasn't fixed but if we give them a fixed date the next meeting and if we don't have the plan by the
next meeting then they're on notice for for an escalation I started in December it was brought up then yeah and that's three months in five years I mean yeah so get to a point that you have
to and I think the escalation is that we start finding $100 a day is that the next step and I would say we would do that if Chuck doesn't have a plan a week before the next meeting what's the
review Feb 19 or Feb the most Ling guy in the world but eventually five years is five years do you have anything you want to jump in with I think anything without a firm date is
worthless and also teeth on the back end so I I would be in favor of the date as you just recommended a week before the 26th and then sure $100 a day from there
on in so before we vote or decide on that Chuck what did the last letter say to them was that not a date starting with some teeth on the back end the last inforcement order or the
for the last the updated enforcement order so it just asked them to finalize their plan and submitt it to the Conservation Commission before this meeting so without teeth on the back end yeah yes they don't do that by the 26 then you can go forward with the
fonts all right so I can update it again and I can call them and I can email them but I can also update another one and say uh you know if it doesn't if you don't deliver to the commission what they're asking for their findes will start yeah
I mean I've St my opinion a number of times which is there's no point in having regulations if it's not unfair I mean it's been a long time I will go along with one more um it's like I said my dog
that's it no more last time so I didn't realize it was five years I mean if it was it before yeah um yeah I'm not about finding people but I mean you got to be to a point that
there were some EXT extenuating circumstances that dragged it out that far but those circumstances are done and I'm just going to State for the record that I think the longer it takes them to
come back with their revised plan the less likely I am to accept it they're not taking it Ser right okay so then can I have a motion to authorize Chuck to update the enforcement order as we have
discussed so moved second just tellon me I second Walter Walter toits in favor M all in favor Tony Rus in favor
Martha Mo in favor Brian in favor okay CH in case you had nothing to do yeah all right next is on the discussion items first topic is the upcoming
conservation DPW monthly meeting for February 4th which was yeah that's incorrect are we are we going to discuss what happened at on February 4 I thought we were planning for next Point that's that's a good point not easy
oh you want to take us through it I think you know we always talk about a bunch of different things there was an agenda I don't have it in front of me but most importantly the com um the DPW wants to start uh submitting notice of intent
applications for cleaning out uh the area in front of culverts so picking up whatever sand comes off the road and uh and and it may go out five feet I don't know how deep it is 5 inches deep 10 inches deep but they want
to um kind of craft that area to be uh I guess a better storm water player so the question also came up how many can they submit at one time one at a time for each covered spot apparently
there's a bunch 17 18 maybe they're thinking about doing four notices of intent so we wanted to know how many they could combine and so they encouraged me to reach out to D and D is not in favor of this kind of work so
after I reached out this is what I heard uh two things uh you can you can combine as many as you want I think that they're trying to get you to go over the uh the threshold for you know the Army corol threshold and you know so then there's
more review there may be a water of quality review that also has a threshold so these are all things that the DPW needs to think about it's the engine department so they'll understand all these thresholds they want to not you know impact yeah so
um that's a project that's coming up and I I think it would be interesting to go and see them first like when the warmer weather comes if we could do a site visit with the DPW and see uh what we're talking about and there might be more a
more pragmatic solution to this you do have a uh townwide maintenance permit that covers cul cleaning but not any cleaning within the channel or bank so just end to end of the
Culver that that's all I can think of I can just add a little more color what they're thinking is if they scooped out my word a little bit by the mouth of the Culvert that would allow the natural flow of the water to push out anything might be in the and give it a place to S
that's their thinking off the road yeah they probably do and they're and they have a lot of easements for all this all the waterways beyond that many what's that what do you mean Beyond I mean if it was within 10 feet they would own it
right they do own it but they do need a permit so so even though they own it it they so they're required to maintain all the waterways and this is like an an ISS is I don't know if it's something they've been doing but um I looked at
one area with my kesman off of um Pleasant Street Pleasant Street uh right near right near the uh Park so there's a crossing right there and there
there was a lot of sediment there and it looked like a couple of the uh coverts were filled or they had some problems and I was like wow this is this is interesting but as it turns out that's not one they want to do so you wonder what kind of shape the ones they do want to
do yeah yeah so I'm I'm not sure what they're looking but what I saw on that one there was it was so obvious that it was sand and it was from runoff and it had accumulated and it was above the culverts wonder what the commission
would think about about these you know um and and the work that needs to be done I think it would be great to see them before they come in I don't so anyways we talked about that we talked about the broken water pipes and Mike kesman was here and you could have asked your question about how often does this
happen I think what we're getting is just more information from the DPW that's what I was wondering but it would be a great question for Mike kesman when he comes back there been five reported in the past few weeks no is there something different um
it's just the you know as I understand it's the freeze and thaw cycle that's all they said the meeting was it's been cold and the core of the water system is yeah and so some things get cold and
freeze some things that old and break well that's what they said but it's been a lot and it's possible it's been happening all along and I just wasn't in a position to hear about it but it's been a lot um okay anything else I think that
was it for our real conversation it jump to administrator's report go ahead there gonna be some tree trimming at Morton Field uh we walked the site with Mike um Mike Hanford and his Foreman his name is
Aaron and Aaron was uh full of information uh very helpful um had some good suggestions uh we talked about things like when you write through his reports some of this terminology I don't understand so they had
raise you know 3inch Elm and I was so my obvious question to me was how far are we raising these things you know what are we talking about here what's what does Raising mean and I guess sometimes it's like you have to understand they're trying to get a lawnmower under it that's like whatever
with an air conditioner on it so many feet high six seven eight feet high so they want to raise that but sometimes it just means any of the limbs that are pointing down they'll cut those off and leave the rest of the limb
so that may always need to be looked at there was there was like 26 trees on this list so it was well worth it to go out there um so where's Morton Field yeah field yeah it's The Big Field in the
back but you can't get a vehicle down so it's all going to have to be hand done there's a lot of hand workk and with a field Frozen they feel like they can get out there I've seen they're not going to get out there can show you pictures of things that are stuck there
ambulances from baseball kids getting injured it's it's so wet yeah it's all going to be walked yeah well they said there was a lot they're going to do but there's a couple trees that have to come down unless it's now yeah but if they wait like no no they're try behind the fence are they going to
stay on the field that field is pristine I mean the guys that take care of it are nuts so but for vehicles to get out there there was a they're so nut there there was a kid got hurt there was an ambulance that got stuck that I get towed up yeah they're so nuts they
actually they had to uh like manufacture a better pitcher mound one day so they went to the stream and dug out some material that was equal to the field that that and popped it into the pitcher
mound and there was this big cavity dug so it's all about the field it's all about the next star was my son's coach I I was there with with this with this yeah so that that got everyone's attention so there's no environmental
there's no environmental out there what's the next step on that so you there's no next step I approve the work it was a list of a bunch of trees they were all obvious that something needed to happen we talked about adding a few but there wasn't anything that was a concern the next thing on my list I
wanted to talk about is I checked out I gave a preactivity to the tree cutting at um the National Grid um transmission line that was today we went up to lenfield walked out into the field very slippery uh entrance
um got down there show what they were going to do I have to go back next week because uh they stopped just at the reading line so there's no work and reading there's no erosion control out they just want to hit this area while it's frozen so they're dropping in the
mats uh all the mats are brand new I've never seen brand new mats but they all are brand new they would the plastic they would yeah they're like 8 by8 stack of four put together so um they're dropping those in place sometimes
they're cutting the Buckthorn and other material that's in front of them I hadn't seen that before and I asked them about that and they said that's that is typical I just didn't see it but um so when they we're laying things down and it will pop up in the spring well
actually they're cutting things not everything but some things and there're and it'll just grow out in the spring so there's going to be another site visit next next week or the very early of the following week Northeast tree is doing the work um they're topping some of the
Cedars they're cutting some of the Cedars and other trees and it seems like their plan is to to put the mask down reach over and cut the stuff so the last thing I wanted to talk about was did you happen to look across the Town Line to
see where they worked already and how's that look yeah it looked all right there was some stumps and whatnot in the you know left out there but it was pretty clean they work off the mats they don't go off the mats as a matter of fact there were hardly any tracks you know like most
people don't get out of the trucks these days and so there was just a few people but before they go in there they send out their Forestry Crew um the uh Wetland scientist and uh someone from nor uh Northeast tree or it's not Northeast
tree it's Northern Tree Northern Tree say northeast is different than northern northern tree and they have a they have a bunch of people to walk and they they mock all the trees X remove slash is uh cap or Trim in some way they mock all
the trees that's the professionals go out there but Northern Tree goes out and just reads what's on tree okay okay so okay what's your next item so we talked about the AR day I sent an email to the chairs asking them to go to the meeting
and Matha provided a lot of input um and I thought that it would be great to come to the town Force meeting so we've been invited to the next ARB day meeting which is going to be somehow hosted from the library this is a library operation
but it's also a DPW operation DPW I've heard is paying for the the saplings and watering the saplings and for who knows how long so there's that there's that connection there so they're making sure these are U being uh taken care of in such a
way and they're also talking about cages or some sort of protection so they don't get eaten so this is might be a little bit different than what's happened in the past um well M fact they're going to water is already different yeah but how for how
long so we talked about um where these are going to go and where's the best spot and there wasn't there wasn't a lot of consensus on where they should start and how that works and so that might be up in the air but
um there any discussion on species well we we submitted a list of species and um they the popar is something they want they're so out of that list they're going to pick three that's what I heard and they're going to go with three but
they really want the papa so this is um so it's a common Papa I don't know that a scientific name um so not found around in New England it's a southern I've seen it in Virginia they really want the
common Popa so uh so the list that so the list that is not native that they wanted to plant is kind of like what you would find at an arum or someone's
backyard and that might answer a lot of questions you know right right off right off the stop so um but I suggestion would be to see what's out there and what's growing well and kind of kind of reproduce that
but I think I think the concern is the for this commission might be the PO so that's why I'm asking so my next thing is to say like you guys find out if you're available to go go there any of the commission members go to this meeting and let's see if we can decide on the three species that are going to
go out there it's why does it have to be only three species thats like we we're generating another monoculture issue that's what that's what I think that out of 500 and what they're want to plant and what they expect to lose they thinking
three species are going to be what what they want so we don't have any jurisdiction this is advisory right no in some areas we will have we will have jurisdic will you make your determination you can say look I don't want any of these Popa in the I'm just saying outside of our jurisdiction you
have you can't say anything they're gonna do what they want yeah it can be can be a palm tree a POA and a and a and a petunia that would be good yeah I did review the list they sent us and only three of them
were officially native trees the fourth one was swamp white oak which I think is a native tree but it's not on the town's native tree list yes go around so but five of them so I guess it wasn't a
total of 10 but five of them were crazy meta seoa I mean giant Redwood in town Forest so who made the list you know Chuck sent it to me I remember that but um I think it was the town Forester
who made the list perhaps I don't want to be making fun of him but they're not native trees um there's a a um black walnut there's a a Siberian Spruce Siberia is not native to here no that's
the name Siberia should give is a give it away yeah is that that a Japanese maple so I sent Chuck back my list which had eight or 10 native trees that I thought might be more appropriate is this and also the three
of their trees or four that I think would be a good choice is this tied at all to the town wanting to become a tree City USA again they are a tree did they lose the designation I thought so still are no
the the out in the hallways from 15 years ago no no I think I think we actually said I think it has to do with planting and one of the criteria is that you have to have an Arbor Day activity a ceremony
of some kind that's required as far as one that was tied to that so yeah so I mean they're asking us to be involved they sent it to us uh you know obviously DPW is more involved it seems like they saw and then as courtesy they sent it to
us and you know as always comments are going to come from conservation because you know we we have the Insight on what happens within the puffer Zone yeah and the resource area so um yeah and I'm just going to
say one of the trees that that was on that list is um one that's found further north than here and so as climate warms it would be another red pine again
yeah so um I I I have great concerns about that list there are a few that I think would be a good choice but Pia glaa is found further north that we're just going to be cutting down dead trees in 20 years you can always use snags
though we got some snags optim I'm and P okay well that's that and the only other that I'm going to mention is that uh um so Kathy Kelly's been reaching out you know I have to say in I've been every
time I've just said I'm gonna defer to Brian and uh Yep they're in the they're in the text they're in the emails I'm GNA defer to Brian and she's asking for um she's she's uh brought up a a good
point um don't know what we're going to do about it but uh we've changed our rules people are confused according to Kathy and that um and that she would like some uh new signage at all of our
uh kiosks and to let people know what the requirements are for instance before it was dogs under voice control and now it's leash so it's a valid point yeah so I just
didn't know why no answer had had come I don't know I kind of said you know why I was doing a four plus hour minutes that's what that's what I've been doing that was a long meeting I was gonna give her your address she was really
persistent you know how that goes oh yeah um so I I think it's something that we should address I don't know how you want to approach it I would like to get because we do this for the trails committee too it's always confusing for them to say
hey can you just get us some new signs for this this and this it's like I need another you know I don't know dog dog rule sign so so what do you think of essentially doing what the trails does where they have a QR code on something
on the kiosk and then you can click on that and find out what the rules are that would allow us to do changes modifications to the rules without having to new do new signs every time yeah I think that came up uh in some meeting I was in and they said that
that's not very informative some people don't have access to that so I think that I think it's um something where you want to write the rules even some sort of truncated version of the rules and for more information QR code something
like that if you remember I did a truncated version before yeah Kathy mentioned that and she gave you high praise for that but the hunters didn't why did the hunters get mad because there was a bow there was an arrow in one of them you know not on MH tree and
bow and arrow in certain Maps so what I said is in gen in general huntting is not allowed see the conservation commissioner for details ah and apparently the hunters were up in armed so to speak with Chuck
about what do you mean we can hunt other than that I didn't hear any so anyways that's that would be a good thing to kind of like you know before the next meeting you know we'll we'll kind of going to work with like Tim on this
Tim I'm just sorry about that my mother's in the hospice I'm just doing one text uh no no no problem maybe we could appoint someone to work with me on that and I think what what I mean by that is like what Brian did Brian's been doing a lot I mean but maybe there's
someone else who wants to do some of this work which is just to come up with the dog we have a list we we approved a list I mean I could just grab that and turn that into something well I think the biggest question isn't coming up with the wording because we just went through
that because of bare Meadow so that's easy I think we need to know how many entrances we have to post that you know what are we talking the five or six main areas you know Pine Bale wherever so I think the the the plan with that is it
would be nice to I and I don't know I mean it all for since I've been here it's been the trails committee that really put things inside the kiosks so what I thought would be very handy is to get you know what a what are they called flash file
zip file you know the flash file no no no it's a it's a it's it holds files it's like all in a line speed files something like that well anyways get those um it's like an area to hold files but it's one on top
of another almost like it's booked together oh like the little yeah I got you like the folder and fill those up and Po and you know I don't know attach it to the wall at at the trails committee garage so they have like 20 of
each as long as we're not going to change the rules there'll always be some available for each for each area so you're thinking that this information would not be posted on a sign at an entrance like
they know dogs in bare medal science are you're thinking of something on an existing kiosk that's all she asked oh okay okay the trails members are willing to open the kiosk and put the signs inside they have done but now that we've had this conversation Brian can you know
reply to the email and and and tell her what we're gonna do or I can't does the town have their own sign shop they make all their own signs uh in in the office we just print it out and then we laminate we have a laminate but if you need to make signs do they have their own the town does not
have their own sign shop as a matter of fact everyone goes outside and and gets it from different vendors some signs are very cheap online and we do that you can do that but I my cousins bad brothers sardella Connors whatever can we can
have signs made if we need them made yeah really I think what Chuck's talking about is not metal signs like the ones we put the notes the F you need metal signs or other sign or banners or whatever reach out to me and we can do something have you done your ethics
course for this year probably not okay you might want to so yeah we've been using different companies for those metal signs and um and cost obviously sometimes we need them and sometimes we don't usually we
they change a lot I mean you know we're always like two years is about as far as we go and and the signs have been costing like $70 each sometime they used to be 35 but I mean I'm thinking they're 50 to to 80 now for depending on what sign we're
using but that doesn't matter I just wanna I want to have a pool of signs so when Kathy or someone from the trails commit says look I need a b and c we know what they want it doesn't need to be updated and this is going to be same for the Conservation Commission because we have like restoration areas all these
signs that we've made up and so a lot of theirs are all set but it's this dog sign that we have to take care of and that's going to give you your segue into the dog dog discussion fair enough I was going to go a different segue in fact I'm do my
segue first speaking of my little SN Mark to Tim State ethics thing you gotten an email from the state ethics asking you to complete your course on it I haven't seen one recently I I have last fall
State something like that so I I last fall they sent one out encouraging you I got a reminder a week two weeks ago saying if you haven't done it do it I got one but they said they didn't need till May 20th yeah I that's fine I wasn't looking
at the date I was just wonder if everybody got the notification I'll check my SPAM yeah that's a good idea okay now the other segue is on well um dogs in bare Meadow as you all
are aware effective August we changed the policy so no dogs in B meal they still allowed in the other conservation areas although now on a leech anyway going back to Bare Meadow U there are a number of people who still bring dogs in
there we had been told that a number of them were going in through the woodend cemetery um and I have gone there there are people in Dog Tracks to the left of the cemetery going to an entrance Trail
um going into bare Meadow um will Finch uh has been very active in uh pointing out that when he goes in there he and his wife go in there they see people on dogs all the time and he's making the point that we
really shouldn't Force it as you know my stances I agree with it we really should enforce it so I reached out to Reading Police to ask to speak to the Animal control officer we don't have one
anymore um we currently contract time from the Wakefield Animal control officer then we reim reimburse Wakefield for whatever time the guy has to put in the person has to put in they then pointed me to Health
Department saying the health department now is enforcing dog bands which I didn't understand but I called the health department I talked to the director and um not entirely helpful uh
in essence he commiserated and said Town Forest committee has the same problem because their dog policiy going to the end of this month and they don't know how to enforce it either
um I did talk to him one of the ideas we had circulated was whether or not we could somehow get a police detail for once a week or certain time a week at a prime period essentially hoping to show the flag and discourage people from
doing it I ran that by him said what do you think and he thinks he thinks it's not a good idea and he doesn't think the read Police Department would do it anyway they don't they wouldn't consider that a good use of law enforcement
resources that's a phrase that he said close that's possibly um although we had been talking about is would we actually pay for a detail once a week once a month some some periodicity um so anyway we at the point
still where we don't have a solution to that I've been going at was going to sit the cemetery hoping to interdict the traffic I never saw anybody traffics not people uh the past couple of days I've
gone to all three of the main entrances so Mata cabin the cemetery and Pearl Street thank you and the Pearl Street parking lot looking for people or cars if there's a car there I've waited for somebody to come out they didn't have a dog didn't say anything other the places
there weren't cars although I did see cross country ski tracks um I can do that a while longer but I don't think that's the answer either um then Chuck uh
forwarded got I just looked at it today okay this has to do with dog policy for the Town Forest committee um these are their rules and their suggest report violations um
to the reading inal control officer I told you the issue with that um there also was talk about um creating a program a bad dog reporting program I'm not sure how that would work I'm not
sure how it could work uh they copying that from another Tas and and I also suggested that you need to reach out to bill you working in different directions I think Bill could really bring us up to speed on the bill
uh Sullivan chair of the Town Forest Comm yeah so I think Bill's been working on this he understands that where the police are they have signs that that have a phone number on it for an animal control officer is from reviewing and
being at the Town FL meeting this seems to be something that is active now bill bill went through a whole discussion about how he had met with those same people the animal control the health department the police and they
worked out a system for alerting the Animal control officer I wonder when we lost our Animal control officer you might have met somebody who's no longer here but I don't know um do you have any idea how that program works the bad dog
program is that for for bite situations is that for too many dog situation what what's it cover it's it's just an it's just a PO a program to report dog incidents uh but I don't know what's going to happen but
they decided that they'll also get the the uh incident report from from the police department because I don't know exactly how they're going to implement this bad dog but you can get reports too that's the problem with that yeah that's a good point and and I've had it happen
I'm I lived in Salem and I had my dogs on a leash and I got a ticket in the mail from Winter Island around and on the leash I get a ticket and I had to pay it so I'm not a huge fan of reporting because you can report
anything I can report your dog off a leas and you could be walking it so I don't know if you're aware but when we put this all into effect those of us who are on the commission then I got training from the town clerk you'd have to have proof of it and well it was for
us to write the tickets so we were given a ticket book um this was a phone in yeah and the issue with giving us a ticket book is we have to obtain the name of the person from the person with
a dog and it seems unlikely that they're going to admit who they are when we're saying excuse me may I write a ticket to you for having brought your dog in here so so what I've decided to do and I haven't had to do it yet is when and if I get to a situation where I see
somebody with a dog either going in or coming out that I'll talk to them ask for a their identification expect them to say no I'm going to take a picture of the license plate the the other the thought the thought that I had
was go up and be friendly with the dog and look for their dog tag number interesting dot I think a number of people who are using bare Meadow are walking to Bare Meadow yes that is true you're not going to find the ones going in the cemetery most of them are walking
there are a few tracks from the Perimeter Road but most of them come in from Frank Street newor I've seen Watkins coming along Pearl yeah we did have a conversation which we haven't implemented yet that perhaps we could be
in there and speak to people we see him and then walk behind them going back to the house we' we've discussed it nobody has said pick me but uh anyway it's it's an option the bottom line is we need to do
something um like the conversation we had on Pearl Street right having the regulation and not doing anything is not a good answer um I share your concerns about a bad dog right you could have someone just didn't like how you parked
yeah besides the license plate okay I was raised to believe there are no bad dogs they just bad dog owners said you could be just walking your dogs and someone just know like what you did yeah and that's that's to Poli you don't have a policy like that
there's we have a line though we have a line of sight violation book if you see that person and you decide that that person's done something wrong you can give that violation out can they call the town and do that and then they can do it no us it's just us right so that's
what happens call the town yeah we don't have that that's not the way it here good yeah I would write a ticket I would hand you a copy and say you need to go to town hall and pay this and I would keep a copy but I would have to actually confront you in person to
say I see you have a dog with you you're in bare meow you're not supposed to have a dog I'm writing it's not so C like I know a bunch of people Brian knows a bunch of people everyone knows people I mean these are the guys I mean like all the contract I know there's contractors
in there and and whatnot that I've seen at Town Hall so it's not like I'm not going to recognize anyone most of the people that I was I was there a lot on Fridays a few months ago and when people came in I would I would talk to them they were happy to
leave they didn't they didn't realize it whether they're bsing or not they would just leave and that's the whole point the dogs are just playing and they're oh sorry that's what I found too is I started out just warning people and the people paid attention in fact when we
were in there before the bare metal Finning oh there was this woman who was walking really fast and I was killing myself trying to catch up to her but once I talked to her she didn't know she turned around and walked out so I am hoping that in time the majority of the
people are discouraged by those kind of means and that we won't have to give out tickets um but in the meantime there is some pressure we're up we're up to a point where a few tickets are deserved I mean we have Kathy Kelly sent me a
picture of you know not only dog Prince walking on our Trail but they didn't pick up after their dog it's it's like so they want to use the place and they want to disrespect it yeah yeah I I agree
so well and I would say if you recognize a person and you know you've already had a conversation with them then that's definitely ticket worthy well and see what as opposed to this is the first time you've met that person on the trail and what I'm thinking is again take a
picture of a license plate well I'm not I'm not so sure so that we can do I'm concerned about that sounds like a smart idea but is it legal yeah exactly it is legal I want to make sure that anything anything that we're going to like get
out there has been vetted by the police department okay so I did ask Laura during that training she said you can do it but but the police are not going to run legally and so but again my thought there is that if we do that enough that
will discourage people because they may not know that there's no Next Step but if they don't pay the fine there's no legal ramifications for that no we have we have regulations we want to do is to have the dog traffic there cut down if not eliminated right and if we can
discourage a significant percentage of the but if you give someone a ticket are they legally yes we have regulations yeah yeah we have dly authorized yeah but how we going we on the Conservation Commission not just random people on but La came and trained us gave us each a
ticket book signed us out with the number on right the people that are trained so that's legally but we do not have the authority to ask for their ID which is the issue they would have to voluntarily say I'm John Smith and I'm a bad board or you have to know them or
you have to see them or you have to you know like you said there's not many people driving in there are a few driving in from somewhere else but right so so in my mind the passive that's the word discouragement take a picture of the plate if you're seeing with a car
take their picture even if you can never identify at least you know next time but you can recognize i t to you already but also it might make them concerned enough that he find one of the other places to walk there's a million places around here to walk all right so Brian I want
to know if you're going to be reaching out to Bill Sullivan doesn't sound like you think that's a good idea like we connect with what their enforcement issues are I think that's fine in fact going back to the health director that's
what he suggested is one of we wait and see what the Town Forest committee does and how well that works out kind of passive but I will reach out to Bill and don't what I'm looking for yeah my my plan is to be more right in right
with them they're doing it we're doing it the same time it's implemented exactly the same time we just catch up to them but if they're doing it bad program depend on details I may not be on board with that
either the think on things Tim mentioned and people confused thank God there's like six other votes on here so we'll see how that goes but I think what they're trying to do is do a bad dog program for the entire town so you may not have like what you so I don't know if I
don't know if it's going to be like oh well but not don't report a dog at bare Meadow I think it's going to be more townwide then oh I get and and they're grabbing it from another town talk to bill and I'll give some details yeah get get a hold of Bill okay hey Brian yes sir when when
you do your vigilance test are you wearing your vest yes okay good I was thinking the same thing okay in fact I sit in my car with the vest on waiting on well on the hope that they will
perhaps see the vest and again get discour I just want to discourage people from going in I don't want to have to confront them I don't want to have to show my martial arts skills fact thereof we can get you a beanie hat yeah know a flashing
light I have one of those stas H I have a five minut hat with know that he me this the second time someone said that I watched it on YouTube Everything Is modern these days okay so next topic uh minutes
so I just sent out 1211 so we can't review that one um chck did you get my comment on that one I did I did I got all the comments yeah your comments yes on 1211 no no no I got all the comments from people and not I'm not saying
specific ones right so um so 1211 we can't review yet uh one22 we can't can't review yet you haven't submitted that right no I have not he says not pointedly um you are doing so much better than Chuck did on his we can submit we can review
18 yes and that's going to say so the one that we can review and approve would be Martha's from January 8th I have submitted comments have used but first of all everybody read it everybody read January 8th I didn't read January 8 I
did Walter sent his comments in okay so that's a quorum who have read it and so you have there any comments above and beyond what people sent in no comments okay given that can I have a motion to approve the January 8th
meeting as amended with the comments that were sent at I'm not gonna make that motion because it was my minute somebody else has step to Michelle no you make a motion make a motion make a motion to accept the minutes of January 8th as
amended as amended second I second talit in favor abstain I didn't read them I'm abstaining too your turn next uh to Michelle
approved Martha more in favor in favor in favor okay that's all we can do for minutes this time next time we certainly can review mine if you're going to actually review it down this
there a lot there I was going to number the pages but I don't want to discourage people um okay and trly not giving a hard time do you think you'll have it for next time or I may okay it would be good if you could just so we stay
close 60 hour weeks the past couple of weeks okay um having said that is there anything else before we adjourn Chu was talking about having us go to the Arbor Day meeting but he didn't say when it is
just that it's at the library oh it's uh you mentioned duration Meek or something it's March it's March 4th I don't know what time but March 4th and that's what we'll do March 4 I
thought it was like 5:30 or 5 so it's around that time we'll get you the we'll get you the time I thought I put it in here but I don't probably sent me an email but been a little overwhelmed too okay so I'm going to assume that that's the last comment before we adjourn can I have a motion to adjourn
move to adjourn at 9:18 second all in favor let's do it thank you let's go home and watch hockey good night four on well e
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