##VIDEO ID:J1EgtmoRlMI## e e e e e again we want to mute people everyone has co-hosting ability so just mute them if they start talk and if they're not um oops just a few minutes folks we'll be uh starting the meeting okay now I'm going to record which recording in progress hello everyone this is Chuck terone readings conservation administrator this meeting is being conducted in person and remote format consistent with chapter 2 of the acts 2023 which further extends certain provision of Co covid-19 measures regarding remote participation in public meetings under chap until March 31st 2025 please note not all items listed May in fact be discussed and other items not listed may be brought up for discussion to the extent permitted by law this agenda includes those matters which can be reasonably anticipated uh to be discussed at tonight's meeting please note that this meeting is being recorded and all material for this meeting is available at the following link which I'll provide after I finish this script Rano the commission chair will facilitate tonight's meeting please note that there will be a public comment period for each hearing each vote taken during tonight's meeting will be conducted by roll call vote we'll Begin by roll call attendance and Brian can you review tonight's agenda sure first call the order of 704 um the roll call order will be uh the order of I'm asking people now um so Walter member pres member pres Tony Tony rakis member present Martha Martha Moore Vice chair present rainbow chair present now I'll review the agenda first tonight we have a hearing for 87 Walker Brook Drive on an amended order of conditions that'll be followed by zero Cedar Swamp which is a continuation of a hearing for a notice of intent then there's bare metal Conservation Area opening a hearing on an RDA next is 57 Longwood Road this is opening a public hearing on a notice of intent 62 Scotland Road opening a hearing on the RDA request for determination applicability and that'll be followed by old new business and some discussion items um some minutes for approval and that would be it having said that why don't we jump right into 87 Walkers Brook is there anybody that we need to admit Chuck uh yeah uh hi Peter I just uh let you in and I let Gary in is there anyone else with you tonight that um is here for Walkers 87 Walkers Brook Drive no just me and Gary thank you okay Gary um if you want to turn on your mic in your video that's fine if not that's fine also um sure there you are uh Gary uh or or Peter whoever uh who's going to update the commission on this project just introduce yourself for the record sure uh Peter vtii from veral Dana uh representing Lee Enterprises um Limited Gary Magnuson CMG environmental representing Lee Enterprises as well okay did you want me to put up the uh the plans and um are you just GNA walk us through what I guess what needs to happen tonight is you just uh I know that we went through this before to decide whether this was an amended order of conditions or not but just a I guess a a quick version of what you went over before would be helpful and then comments from the commission if you can please be brief that was quite a long agenda we have to get through sir I'll just uh I'll briefly update the commission on where we are procedurally um we um submitted a um request for plan change pursuant to section 7D of the uh town of readings Wetland regulations um um at the last meeting in September uh the commission made a determination that the uh plan change was significant and would require an amendment an amended order of conditions and since then we've submitted um basically a written request for an amendment to the order of conditions and uh uh you know notice to abutters um and follow the procedures for um uh in the the D policy for requesting um an amended order of conditions so the original order of conditions I believe was issued at the end of January of this year um the plan change um and and Gary could walk through um sort of more of the technical details of that but the plan change essentially um includes a uh um a drainage CT um that would um you know a curve a blocking of the curve Gap um on the the car um on the curb that was on the side of the Wetland resource area and um redirection of the um of storm water surface storm water into the trench drain or uh trench Culvert into the um the infiltration sort of area that's located um along the highway on the property so that that's the plan change we we submitted it I think we walked through it last meeting Gary I'm sure is happy to run you through it again but um last so last meeting was the determination of significance and this meeting is a vote on whether to approve the amended order of conditions okay thank you um does anybody in the commission have any comments or questions we want to get to do you want Gary to run over the uh plan briefly or uh let me ask does anybody here feel they need more than we got at the last meeting no no I think the plan is pretty straightforward okay and then do are there any questions L gentlemen all right do you have anything you want to say ask I don't I just want to remind the commission that we be ask will I will ask for conditions uh after you close so maybe even that you might have some conditions that you could you to think about let's try that again does anybody have any thoughts conditions that will record in a minute the original order of conditions has all the time frames in it this would specifically be for this new storm water Improvement right and the original order of conditions has all the um erosion control right so we don't need to worry about that for this one I I like the plan they presented I'm fine so Gary I have one question this this still um it needs to be approved by mass do correct that is correct U we're working through that but obviously once we have the commission's approval it'll be one of the check boxes that mot's looking for so it'll facilitate a hopefully a quicker process with them so this and all the improvements is for the detention area by Mass DOT it's on their property so um I think just the only thing that I would add is as soon as you hear from M do to keep the commission informed and provide us the paperwork that they they send you for the approval for denial right but that doesn't uh get in the way of us moving forward tonight yeah okay so can I move that we approve an amended order of conditions for 87 Walker I think we have to close first oh do we have to close on this okay I'll move to close on 87 auor book drive anybody want to second that this is Tony I'll second that oh do you want to ask anyone if they before we continue maybe someone's here yes is there anybody out in online land who has any comments or questions about this yeah just use your raise hand function uh to the reaction buttons to the raise hand function and uh we'll see you you'll pop to the top of the screen see any in the reaction button raise hand function we'll see you uh if you have any questions seeing none okay so we have a motion in a second so we're ready to vote so sorry before we close can I can I make one request um regarding the the prior order of conditions had um a number of special conditions that essentially said the um you know the the illicit discharge needs to be resolved before for the work can commence um given this plan change can the commission include some language in the amended order of conditions that says essentially um this this plan change is has resolved that that concern and the work May um continue according to the plan essentially just to sort of button up that issue about um you know the the prerequisite for commencing the work what what order are you planning on doing the work are you planning on fixing the discharge first before you get to work on the on the pumps that's it right but I just wanted to make sure that was still the plan okay all right does anybody have any thoughts on that so so I have a question not sure this in quotes fixes this but it certainly improves the situation I'm not sure if Gary can add any light to that is is this a fix at the end of the day are we getting clean water at the other end I just I think that we worked with I think that this solution was the best you could do in this situation and um it's certainly a lot better than it was but maybe to say it doesn't fix it but to say it improves it would that be acceptable it I'd prefer to see language that IT addresses the commission's elicit discharge concern that would clear it clear it up for us but um you're the commission that's your ultimate call all right we'll keep that in consideration then so we can move on okay so then I ready to vote althor please repeat the motion the move move to close oh okay Walter talet in favor lior in favor Martha Moore in favor Brian bro in favor okay so we're closed so now we need a motion to issue move to issue an amended order of conditions for 87 Walkers Brook Drive second second Walter talson favor in favor Tony Rak is in favor Mo in favor ran in favor okay did we have any conditions or are we all set on conditions yes that will receive notification from M do to the applicant about e either way yeah okay all right thank you thank you very much vote on the oh I I moved to issue and we voted thought you moved to close did and then I moved to issue voted voted on two things yeah okay sorry it's all right good to remind me because once I forgot okay all right we're all set I'll issue that um I'll send that out within next week all right all right Peter G right thank you very much right thank you good night so they're moving on to zero Cedar Swamp um is there anybody out there for that one yeah I'm letting uh Shah Shah in right now and Andrew's here I saw him show up also okay you should be good good to go yeah okay Andrew Shona welcome um I'm not sure which one of you wants to give us an update of the status and if and if you do please identify yourself for the record sure I'd be happy to give that that status update uh my name is Shona pus I'm with BSC group I'm a applicants representative um for the uh for the project uh since the last Hearing in um end of October um there haven't been any uh changes to the project itself uh we were working with the commission on um a draft order of conditions um particular conditions that would apply to the the project um we've been coordinating Andrew and I have been coordinating directly with with Chuck uh we received a draft order of conditions yesterday uh and we're able to send back you know a few different kind of comments and uh thoughts on the the order of conditions a little bit uh prior to this meeting at about four o'clock or so so we're hoping to uh to um engage in discussion and and work through some of the uh the conditions okay there anything else that's all okay um well I will have to say that uh obviously we did get a uh response from you folks um late kind of kind of last minute so most of the commission hasn't even seen um the comments yet yet I saw them briefly while I ate tonight so I think it uh wouldn't make any sense to move forward and get into discussion on the comments in general um do that make sense to you um I'd like to at least look at the special conditions personally I mean based on the length of time we've been before the commission and our schedule I mean I kind of would at least like to look at the special conditions um I don't think that really helps I mean at least in my experience going over things like this in a committee setting is not very efficient not very productive I would rather give all of us um time to actually look at these things to have our questions prepared our comments prepared our approach prepared so talking about it in real time we would hear your impression on it but then we'd say Okay f fine we still have to go away and think about it ourselves right sure yeah um a little more time seems reasonable 24 hours seems like you know a little bit short for everyone right so if we could set a date by which we could get maybe comments back from you ahead of the next meeting because I think there's only one Hearing in December if I'm not mistaken so I guess I'm kind of at a point with our schedule we we're kind of needing to have a determination at this point is there a date we could see comments from you based on our our draft back hang on one second chck must to say something no not now so um seems to me like we could certainly all have a chance to read it within a week and give comments to Chuck and then chuck could send those comments that make sense to you too you can do it in a week yeah so yeah after Walter says yes why don't we make it so we can so the the so I read through this and I think that you know it's generally seems um to be to reflect what the commission wanted in a lot of cases and there may be just a few that need to be discussed so um I think that the commission could look through it and get it back to the applicant I by to me Thursday morning and I could send it to the applicant or maybe Wednesday and send it the applicant on Thursday so by the end of next week they have it right right so from my quick read of it I agree with that's General premise that a lot of it looks perfectly acceptable as what we were looking for but I see it as three General categories I think there's going to be the majority of the comments that we agree with and say agreed as written there will be some where we have disagreement and we going to want to uh push back on those and to and to change that perhaps and there's some were just not clear to us and that's going to need some some further discussion so three buckets accept not accept and discussion does that make sense okay with with that in mind would the commission entertain another meeting in November specifically about the draft I guess my again back to a comment my concern is right there's not another meeting that the commission has November so we'd get your comments back which I appreciate but then we'd be all the way out to December 11th and that's the only Hearing in December so then based on what you're saying with comments back and then revisions again that goes into January if I'm not mistaken and then pending an approval at that time we have 10day appeal 21 day issuance like it's getting to a point where we can actually execute the project under conditions we have for the project I understand um so let's first explore the idea of not having a second meeting in November if we were to provide comments to Chuck and he passed them off to you say a week which is what Mar had suggested uh then that would give you a time to look at our response and uh to do the same thing basically the same triage agree with uh some number of ones that we that we s back to you and then to have a relatively small number of ones discussed right for the December 11th meeting right and at that point I think we could go through that um targeted small list of topics go ahead chck I was just gonna jump ahead again I you already told me about that that's what he does yeah um I don't see why Andrew why why were we not um closing and and issuing on the 11th and then you would have your 10day approval that's December 11th yep yeah so based on what Brian had said three buckets one conditions you can agree upon conditions that we need to discuss and ones that you want to maybe further uh change right if on the 11th the ones that you aren't happy with and that you want to change We can't agree upon then that would be concerning to me and then you couldn't close on it so then we're pushed out to the January date that's my point are you able to make those decisions at the meeting or if we sent those to you so it sounds like you would get the that information of the ones we don't agree upon by next week um end the next week and then you could I don't see why I couldn't like go back and forth with you and try to try to make that happen and so we would be pretty much all set by the by the 11th the goal would be to get the 11 with the document that's essentially agreed on and we would do maybe some final comments and questions and then end it yeah so one of the things that y again on the 11th I I would be requesting a vote so I can appreciate that that that sounds like a plan to me sure I just to let you know one of the things that I was uh I had a question about and I'm going to let the commission do it now I'm not looking for an answer but it was uh 4 3 44 and 45 it looks like there was a lot of that information taken out of that that section and I was wondering if I noted the um vegetation management plan incorrectly and so that would have been something I I asked myself um so you know in order to get that right I would had to reach back out to Shona and to find out you know how to how to change that around to make the the corrections so that was one of the things that was would be hard to do um during tonight's meeting great so is that a reasonable goal for us to get comments to you through Chuck in a week plus or minus a bit and then you would go back and forth with Chuck before next meeting get to the next meeting where the document that is for most intents and purposes already there is that a reasonable that would be wonderful going into Thanksgiving time off not not having to you know continue to think about it that would be great that would be ideal I would appreciate that yeah it's like avoiding studying for exams over the break yeah okay so given that then uh you would agree to a continuance until the until December 11th yes I would okay can we have a motion to that effect I'll move to continue this hearing to December 11th I second that toets in favor in favor Tony lock is in favor Marth Moore in favor Brian B in favor okay so yeah just to add some color to this we receiv received this afternoon at 4:30 a marked up document of the order of conditions that I sent out and so there's not many items it was 24 five pages of that um special conditions I would say there's only 20 items that they mentioned maybe a little bit more or less but a lot of them seems to be okay everyone should be able to make comments uh we've done that in many different ways but I'll reach back out to you individually don't send me them with everyone else these are individual uh not actually don't see the email maybe I was I did not I only sent it to to the chair and asked his advice based on the T time that we received them so the rest of the commission did not you those comments okay so we make our comments directly to you and the sooner the better but no later than a week from today and then you can get the comments compiled and back to them yeah and then and then the following week with your permission I'll be able to just iron out any of the problems that came up that's and uh yeah that's a goal should be all set for the 11th that's that's what I heard yeah I agree okay okay right Andrew and sha thank you um thanks for the help and we'll we'll talk to at least by next Thursday and then uh the following week probably a lot more okay okay thank you for your time have a good evening T night okay next bare metal Conservation Area uh this is actually submitted by Chuck so that's right I was like what is this okay um hold on a second let me get this uh trade and don't forget to ask for r um I don't know if this is the the best plan but this is we gonna have to do triple duties here I'm gonna stand over here evening commission this is Chuck tone contion administrator uh this plan shows some trees we're trying to do some improvements at bare Meadow and this location is off Pearl Street Alp of 120 721 Pearl Street and at 721 Pearl Street there's only one small section that has some trees in it that um will be coming down with the larger improvements that uh are going to be presented later on this month so we needed to get a permit to take these trees down within the conservations jurisdiction that red line on the plan is the 100 foot buffer zone but we didn't want to or I didn't want to present a plan or do some work that was marinal so it was best to come into the commission and get your approval the blue represent the dead trees and the red represents living trees that are basically on the 100 foot buffer zone line um they're all entangled are pretty much entangled in Oriental bitter suite and um for the most part if that isn't taken care of with our project uh opening up this area then those trees would die anyways from being strangled out so um it's quite simply just asking for permission to go within this area and remove those trees if I could read that from here I would but uh let me see what it says the red trees are the living trees the blue trees of dead trees there's uh seven seven living four dead and four dead the entrance is from 721 Pearl Street the access to remove those trees would be through that entrance through that gate um and reaching in uh from outside the buffer to manage the trees all the trees will be dropped in the direction uh of the field and not in the direction of the Wetland so it's a pretty small project is a project that's on the edge of the 100 foot buffer zone uh so you know it's good for the commission to give comments on that so I'll just stop right now and hear what the commission has to say about this project okay anybody have any questions or comments you said that the sorry uh the trees had to be removed for another project like they going be REM from the ler project yeah so in the uh in the bare Meadow um Stewart plan opening up the meadow was something that was mentioned and the commission has received a grant to do that work so we'll be presenting that plan to open up the meadow and create more grassland for the nesting Woodcock uh and to increase that Woodcock habitat so the grassland is being um trees are growing into the grassland and each year it's it's smaller and smaller so around the edges they're just going to remove some trees that have grown in and then at that point the commission uh and the conservation office could maintain the field in that general area so the distinction is that the other trees that are going to be presented later they're on conservation land so we do care from that perspective these are in the Wetland jurisdiction so that's before Mission now yeah this was checked out and there's no other no other trees that are coming down that are even close I think the next the next group of trees are over 200 feet away so will you be doing this work when the ground is frozen so uh we'd like to have the same condition as the uh Town Forest got so either dry or frozen but during the time frame um that the uh natural heritage gave to the to the uh Town Forest committee also so we would we would be working basically up until uh May and uh no wait a minute that was March February 28th yeah February 28 and then anytime after May so that's what we're looking for but the the goal is to get it done during the Frozen season if there's one and um to stay out of the mud and to stay out of tearing up the ground and the advantage of that also is that would make it winter work may help in availability and cost with whoever does the work so who is going to do the work are you thinking this is uh so this is part of the larger project I'm just looking for an approval for this part of the project like I said no other no other portion is within the buffer zone but this is part of the bid package to to get the rest of the work done if somebody sees Walter's hand up make sure you tell me but Tony I have a few questions did did you mention how the trees were going to be [Music] removed uh yeah so uh we don't want to um so they're going to be loaded onto a truck and they're going to be either with a crane or with a small piece of equipment uh dropped to the ground so I'm going to call it a fella buncher but I've heard it called different names so they'll go in cut it at the base hold it as it falls and it falls quite slowly to the ground how how large are these trees the trees in this area some of them are 20 inch dbh 24 inch dbh but some of them is really small like 10 and six so there was a variety of trees the ones that are dead are the smaller ones they you know and as a matter of fact there's a some of the dead trees are ash so they had no chance of living anyways and what's the access point the access point uh hold on a second I'll switch ass for a second it's right there off Pearl Street and so this Pearl Street parking lot it's paved there's probably 11 cars that could park there so the entrance would be right in that area we've called out that area as the staging area it will be blocked off from the public well this work is going on and so not saying they're not going to process back out on the parking lot they'll process throughout the meadow but um whenever they're staging and their equipment and all that all right um I don't know if the so it was February to to May was the the no work period the forest got I can look it up okay if you want to give me a second in the Town Forest rule they could do it up to February 28 y so they can work all of February they can work all of February and then they they were off and then they resume in May I can't confirm that but they're definitely off in March all right because um W Woodcock nesting usually goes through June or it can go through June so if we're there to improve good habitat habitat would be preferential to not disturb them that makes sense to me especially during the dating process any other questions well ch's looking that up want me to ask the question about the invasive management plan or will you ask that that's your favorite well no gu maybe I'll ask invasive related question so are those trees that are dying because of of the invasives and is that does that have anything to do with these trees actually coming down right I mean there it seems to that they're going to come down anywh irrespective of the yeah the trees the ash trees will come down anyways they're just dying they're standing dead right now and they will fall down I mean they could be habitat trees but you know this this plan is um creating habitat for specific species so we're just trying to just increase the possibility of this habitat um you know as as we read about in our evaluation from Mass aorn so if we're trying to increase the meadow habitat we don't want to leave 10 foot snags when we take these trees down we want to take them down to ground in order to have the grass land expand is that correct yeah I I can't find that so I'll have to get that it's it's in the document it's in the natural heritage document if you you guys want to look it up we've had I I don't understand why the uh Town Force plan is not up there still yeah all the other ones that are up there but it makes sense to make sure that the no Cutting Zone time goes at least through June because of the wood cost here which is so so the this is just a formality here at this Meadow it's not uh it's not protected land for species or estimated habitat for rare Wildlife uh it's it's none of that but we're going to take the same precautions because way off 300 or 400 feet away there's a Vernal pool and it makes sense so um we no under no obligation because it's not reviewable by Misa so the time frames that the commission decides upon is is is acceptable uh it's it's what's in the uh the RFP for the cutting and um as long as there's the overarching conditions of Frozen or dry yeah then that going to be self-limiting anyway to some extent and we could phrase the condition to be um no cutting between February 28th and June 30th or whatever the time frame is in the Town Forest whichever is larger yeah I think you could just just recognize the town Force document from natural heritage and just use that yeah just references yeah but what if it allows you to start cutting again in May we don't want to do that because of the wood costs so um it does allow you to do that but just like we did with the Town Forest you're only allowing it because of the conditions to be at you know during the winter time so um you could you could put a restriction on another condition saying this happen has to happen in the winter I'm not sure why it has to happen during the winter time if the dry conditions out there also you if we stay outside of veral pool season and we got habitat season so yeah I think that's all I was saying is that using Tony's information about the end of the woodcut season I think we should just say Town Forest as a starting point with the modification of making a little bit later for the wood C sure so you could make a condition that Tony will provide that information and we'll and put it into the order of conditions um shoulders and our goal is to get this work done before February 28th this winter yeah so uh the way the bid went out is we're hoping that one company will do both Town Forest and bare Meadow oh so we're we're we have a site visit on the same day an hour apart from each other and uh yeah we're trying to make the most of the the economy of scale that can be gained from to uh dinning projects in the same town any other questions here Walter do you have any questions what was that no no okay um Chuck well you you can't ask yourself might want to see if anyone has any comments we sent out in the butters notification for this project I wanted to ask ask you first but of course you do I have any questions you got to recuse yourself um so is there anybody from the public who wants to ask questions or make comments can you see Chuck if put the other hat on the other hat on stop the share stop the share I'll go back but if anyone here has a comment or a question please use the Rea action button and use the raise hand function and we'll see you and you can ask your question seeing none um okay so this is an RDA so we have limited ability to attach conditions um we know the one I already which is the end date is there anything else that we should consider are there other trees nearby that we need to protect in any way wrap the trunks so they don't get scraped or anything like that as the equipment goes not in this area like I said they're all dead um or going to be removed and we're reaching in from an Open Meadow okay good it sounds beautiful but Open Meadow but it's basically thorny Rush very um I think one maybe is worth wrapping is by the entrance it's the one where there some some dead wood we're talking about me moving but that's a fairly narrow entrance so putting a fence or something around that to protect it would make sense I think we'll accept that as a as a condition yeah no problem anything else now the usual language about feeling any ruts that Cur from so I was thinking we would use the exact same language from the Town Forest I mean it's the same project we're worried about the same things so basically that language would be put into this uh determination so that actually prompts a question which is with the Town Forest while there's the same condition about um the contractor fixing any issues they cause in the end their back stop was DPW you think we have that as a back stop here if it's needed I haven't reached out to DPW to ask them if they would clean this up problems but we do have a back stop in way so part of the improvements that we want to do to the meadow is there's paths that bict the meadow creating smaller pieces of Meadow in less habitat and one of the overall goals is to create a perimeter path out of the wood chips to um you know to have people enter walk around the edge and then get to their trail that way so all the ruts presumably will be by the edge and so all they'll be covered up by chip wood chips yeah but it's also in the RFP um I'm use the right terminology it's also in our bid documents that they have to backl and you know cover up the the runs okay any other comments or questions and if not this is an RDA so I need a motion for anyone would like to see the bid uh it's on the town website so there's a bid for Town Forest there's a bid for town for uh this bare Meadow area you just have to put in some information and you can see both did on so they're very similar but I think just trees and if you can believe it there's more hardwood over here at this site and there's more IR bonifer the other spot okay do we have a motion then please I move that we issue a negative determination for this project Walter you GNA vote I didn't hear a second excuse me Walter talins in favor Jer in favor Tony rakis in favor Mar Mo in favor bran bro in favor okay thank you you may take a seat okay our next topic is 57 Longwood Road do you want me to put the fan on the screen we don't usually use those anymore is that fine with you or do you want to do just that you'd have to bring it up close for the commission and I don't even know if rctv can dial in on anymore I would say your suggestion of putting it up on stre great okay okay so can you come to the podium and introduce yourself for the record good evening I am Elizabeth Wallace from Hayes engineering I am their Wetland scientist I'm representing uh the applicants uh tonight we're with you to um discuss a addition project at 57 Longwood Road uh in the existing condition there is an a house uh with paved driveway and a number of structures uh in the backyard and um me just go all the way down to the front here yeah and as you can see on the plan um the driveway and a small part of the house is it within the 200 foot Riverfront area the riverfront area uh is actually extending from a perennial stream on the other side of the road behind those houses uh so the uh driveway is within the outer repair in zone in the uh proposed condition uh the homeowners are going to demolish the existing two-car garage and a part of the existing porch and replace it with um a twostory 840 square foot uh addition which will house uh three cars in the basement and living space above with the addition uh constructed uh there will be a smaller wider driveway and a new walkway uh the uh porch will be reconfigured to accommodate the um uh new addition um we'll be uh removing the existing retaining walls and reconfiguring those to uh fit in with the new driveway and um that's about it uh there's about uh 3,600 square feet of Riverfront disturbance but it's all disturbed by uh existence of the structures and blond uh there is no uh New River Front area being disturbed all existing disturbance uh truck do you have the uh existing plan uh if it was let's see what's we got down here back up on this is that helpful is that where we want that is helpful it shows the proposed twostory Edition um we are taking down one tree uh it's a um CH tree that's coming down you can see that x marks the spot there uh and U there's going to be a new walkway with stairs this uh this property has quite a bit of topographic slope to this so the uh driveway will be sloping towards the roadway and uh in the existing conditions there was a a um crust Stone strip along the driveway we will take that out and replace it with an area of crush Stone um in the in the front corner of the new driveway that will capture some of the runoff I think that uh is a good start on this uh if you have any questions I'm happy to answer them great thank you is anybody in the commission have any questions comments I have a question have we confirmed that the average owna is meeting the definition of of a river or stream or the wetlands protection act as it's shown as a permanent water body on a USGS map and so forth excellent question uh yes it is shown as a perennial stream believe me I battled that I tried to find somewhere where it showed intermittent but no it's it's perennial uh it does look like a man-made portion um I can't prove that but uh it's right in the back of uh the backyards of those uh houses across the street it is pretty straight right in that area we did have a study in town years ago and they call uh above Summer Street heading towards the high school intermittent and below that Summer Street intersection paren that's internal study I don't think the EP has the same opinion but uh at least you could argue that above Summer Street good to know thank you any other questions to Y Char Walter do you have anything I do um it seems like you're doing a fair amount of work closer to the stream than the current situation um for example all the part of the addition that's where there's now a cherry tree um so and the driveway is getting a lot closer to the stream have you proposed any mitigation for the um the impervious surface that you're adding to this project well part of the mitigation is uh the area of cress Stone um we have not uh proposed any other mitigation I believe the uh uh addition will have uh um uh drains uh Gutter and drains going into the ground but uh so that's storm water management that is storm water management right but I'm pretty sure we've been told on other projects that you can't get closer to a river without restoration or mitigation for the work that's coming closer to the river so if you were to do this in the backyard I'd have no issue with that but the fact that you're on the river side of the house we had a previous project where they wanted to put Crush Stone along the driveway and that Crush Stone got them closer to the river and they had to do some mitigation for that well it's uh I'm sorry uh let me say that uh it's all distur I mean there is uh considerable pavement for the driveway and all and um the uh disturbance is right up to the uh uh d uh roadway so actually we're not getting closer you building is getting closer for sure and the uh driveway is wider but no we're we're not closer all of the existing disturbance is right up to the edge of the street so what the disturbance would be the driveway goes to the street what else is so I think everything's kind of heading in that front-facing position and the driveway be the leading disturbance so at 555 West Street the driveway was I can't remember that one but I know that they were going further the driveway was getting closer and I think it was beyond other things that were there that same line but I'm not sure yeah in that case you're right the um the crush Stone was encroached in on what had been lawn closer than the because it was going along the side of the driveway um so are you saying the edge of the street where the driveway meets the street is the Leading Edge of the project and the fact that they are covering up a bunch of lawn with driveway does not count is getting closer because the Leading Edge of the driveway at the street is the Clos CL reach I'm saying you asked a great question and there's a lot in the wellness protection act that's up to the commission's Comfort level um but if I were looking at this I would think since it's all heading in the same direction the Leading Edge of impervious disturbance would probably be the driveway if it was headed off catty corner in that direction and they're building over there the streams over there well yeah they're adding kind of like screen lower left but the but the streams directly across the street behind another behind another house but but the um the proposed twostory Edition is getting a lot closer to the stream because the driveway is getting shorter so the building is getting closer to the stream but it's imper so so the the addition or the driveway the driveway exists the addition is behind the driveway behind that disturbance I mean I think whether we agree or not on whether um lawn is part of this conversation because it's not it's pervious and you know that could be up to your your discretion but um I think it the other question would be for mitigation would be what's what's the amount within the 200 foot so we're in the outer 200 what is the amount of impervious surface square foot and are you adding to that so if it's 10 and this is this is nine well then you're not adding to it but if it's if it's 10 and with this new addition you're you the square footage comes up to 20 then you are adding it and you might be into that area where you have to look for f and g it seems to me there's a lot more impervious surface here than we saw in the ground when we went on our site visit because the area with the cherry tree is now completely surrounded by building and the area behind the stone retaining wall is now going to be extra driveway and the area that's going to be the walkway with the steps proposed walkway proposed porch with roof over Landing steps that's all grass so there's a lot of lawn which I admit is Disturbed area but it's still its lawn not pavement um and I did notice on the right hand side of the building going back up the slope towards the backyard they used a very perable permeable P system where the grass is growing up through the holes in the basically cinder blocks put in sideways so there's lots of holes does that make sense did you see that area yeah so um you know this particular property already has some clearly pervious pavers I don't know that they'd want to do that same thing in the front yard but I very much liked seeing that in the sidey yard so so I didn't have time to carefully read through the rags but my understanding was that if you're moving closer to the river you need to do mitigation so can I so can I interject for one second yeah so what you're talking about and I agree with the conversation is all 108.5 okay in your description you were referring to 108.4 P point4 is General performance standards five is Redevelopment can you explain why you wrote it against four and not five it sounds like I made a typo up there okay I I just want because talking about Redevelopment yes okay fine um but then back to you until it's my turn uh I'm done anybody else Tony you yeah so so I want to answer your question and as the chair alluded to this is 10585 and it's sections d and e that I think you're you're thinking of that say proposed work including expansion of existing structures shall be located outside the riverfront area or toward the riverfront area boundary and away from the river except in accordance of when there's mitigation and E is the area propos um sorry that was C and D is proposed work including expansion of existing structures shall be located outside is that what I just read yeah I think C is the one that has the out on it because it says or 100 feet yes so so C is is is not close not located closer to the river than existing conditions are 100 feet and D um says that it shall be um away from the river so in in time can I they interject again so in in this section there's five whatever conditions they all must be met must be met or you do mitigation or restoration there's at least two three ones that are not met so by definition they have to consider mitigation or restoration so it almost doesn't matter what exact details of any one of them are in this case because there's a number of them that are not me right so we should be jumping right to uh what is the mitigation or restoration that'll be done because these conditions are not met so and then just before we go off on that I just want to make sure that a is that at a minimum so the first step is there needs to be improvement over the existing conditions uh of the capacity of the r front area to protect the interest identified in the act so something has to happen there and then we're into C and D or FNG you know so we have two things we're going to get this is a single family house but they're doing infiltration and so that's an improvement so maybe that meets a okay so now we're down to all right but they're not meeting D which is the existing structure so I'll be out side the riverfront area or no closer than blah blah blah so now they're into C and D they're probably also not meeting um the square footage one yeah the 10 sure because you didn't put down the square footage of the riverfront area on the plan but even but just eyeballing it it appears that you're over the 10% threshold again doesn't mean you can't do this it just means that it throws you into effort G for the restoration or mitigation so no matter how you cut it I me I think it actually fails a d and e but either way at least one of them isn't met so we need to be talking about restoration or mitigation um and I don't know if you have any thoughts on that I don't have any thoughts on it right now uh I would like to point out that uh putting the addition on the front side is the only place for the addition uh you can't put it on the sides because of the uh uh narrowness of uh the area between the house and the sidelines um in the back uh outside the riverfront area they have uh various uh structures already there so there's there's not room for the addition so if I can jump in I apologize for being but um I I agree with you in fact you're already seeking a variance already because it's narrow so I think you need to be looking at the mitigation or restoration clause and be thinking of doing something somewhere else in the abona River Basin because what it says is you can do it essentially on the applicant's property or you can do it somewhere in the reach of the river um so you know I'm not going to design this for you but that's something to consider coming up with the plan that you could then present to us and we could well certainly go over it with uh the homeowners and see what they want to do they don't own any property along the uh uh aona and you don't have to yeah you can you can again just read those two sections it talks about doing things to property that the applicant has no legal rights to words to that effect so um you know there's always something that can be done the abona run through much of reading there must be something somewhere in Reading where there can be some improvement that would help you with the mitigation approach in fact I'm sure if you talk to Chuck he probably has a ready list of places he'd like something done so um you know I mean I would suggest that again it's up to you folks but but not to they can improve their own property too they can if if there's space and there and has to be enough mitigation because there's a two two to one uh ratio for mitigation right or is that restoration I forget one of them two one of them three to one restoration or mitigation but again just read those two sections f and g so uh what I'm interested in is just get an accounting of the uh impervious area just to make sure that we are hitting the right notes so if you could calculate uh the existing Riverfront area you're not supposed to be over 10% um I just want to kind of get this out there I'm GNA send you what I'm looking for because I've written it up before for other people and I'll just send that to you so but I have to get it into the record so I'm looking for the existing impervious I'm looking for um the difference and um within the riverfront area so just just that area and then we're g to have to and the way I see it is if you're over it by a little bit we need a little mitigation you're over it by a lot we need more okay but the um there's always something to do and I think that you already have infiltration happening here I don't understand the stones does that to keep catch rainwater or sheet flow or something like that yes yeah okay I mean we can certainly add to it if needed sure but we'll we'll figure something do you know what owners and figure something out so restoration is one to one because you're restoring and two to one because it's less mitigation would would be two to one so two to one yeah I knew one of them was two to one yeah so you would like on that lastation is one to one yes mitigation yeah two to one two to one yeah because they're going to use things like trees spread a pie we're putting in trees but we're not putting in a whole habitat you know we don't have a herbaceous veg shrub layer and tree layer so not doing that we're just doing a little bit so they're not restoring it to its original conditions I don't know if you're going there with this another would beavers not trying to for that infiltration those are the things that are mitigation it's not always just go and build a like like like the other one go go and build a a boardwalk to cross the abona river somewhere I wasn't thinking of that no that was a good idea yeah but um I do another a couple of questions not to do with the five versus four you guys have any questions first um so my first one is are the homeowners going to be in the house when you're doing the work I assume so I so then where with so you have erosion control across the bottom of the property across the driveway where they're going to keep their cars are they planning on driving over the erosion control at night when they're parking no I'm sure that they'll uh take the um Sil roll and uh put it over to the side so that a concern to me because obviously there may be sediment that's already been trapped along the base of it it may be raining when they want to come in and out so that's a consideration I think you need to rethink um I'm not sure it's a good idea to have the osion control be a swinging gate you also have the issue about do they remember to close it do they close it all the way in properly because theoretically there's going to be a a a meting a checkpoint where we look at things like the roin control before the work actually starts so even if we went and we said it's fine it doesn't mean if Mr and Mrs move it aside and then put it back there's going to be just a defective wherever they put it right correct so I would say that's a big concern in my but there's no I mean it's pavement to Pavement and no real way to to put any uh erosion control there uh I'm sure uh until the snow flies they can park on the street the other alternative is to put the erosion control along the curb on the other side of the street but I don't think the neighbors would like that uh it was difficult I I tried to figure out what to do with uh uh the and and I figured you just present it this way um and uh see what else we can come up with yeah I'm not asking you to uh redesign here on the Fly I don't have an obvious solution myself it may be that they have to ask their neighbors that they can park in somebody else's driveway for a while how long do you expect this project to take I don't really know yeah makes two of us yeah okay um and I don't know if that's even possible I know the neighborhood somewhat um I yeah but um anyway that that's my concern above and beyond the four versus five any other questions from the commission any other questions from Chuck no I'll just uh recap and send you these questions uh we'll go over some mitigation issues and erosion control issues any comments from the public or questions I use the reactions button uh raise hand function and we'll see you or you could uh get our attention that way I don't think you could turn this your uh video on at this point because we have that locked because of Zoom bombing I'm also looking when we're thinking about logistics of the construction you talked about the silt sock but where are the um debris from tearing down the old garage going to go and where are the stockpiled new materials to build the addition going to go and is there going to be any soil St piled on the property that will say back fill around the foundation after it gets dug all very good questions um I am thinking that uh some of the stockpiling could be on u a little strip of pavement right in front of the uh um property so down with the trash can were yes yeah yeah so I'm thinking some of the stock piling could be there some of the stock piling could be up on the uh breast area that is not being uh Disturbed too much I I would suggest that in thinking about putting it down where the trash cans were you need to think through if that's okay with the town to have that material that close the road it's not a very wide road so yeah indeed yeah do you know how long the driveway would take to expand it is that like bind a course down like um take off the I don't know how you're doing it but bind a course kind of dry and tight in one day because if that could happen if you could find out about that maybe you could run the erosion control up the sides after that initially happens I don't know when they're going to do this do they do their they probably to do the driveway first because no one wants trucks and Equipment driving over their new driveway so seems like it would be last but maybe the binder course could go on or oh I imagine the binder force will go on first so they can get their vehicles in there yeah so another consideration going back to the thought about the erosion control being at the bottom where you put the materials are going to be important because if it's above the erosion control somehow the trucks going to have to get through there so you have the same issue about how to get through without releasing things you don't want released so you have some things to think about all right so any other we did the other questions here we did questions from the public so at this point it looks like we have to continue you okay with that let's get a list of uh wants for the so understand the driveway entrance understand mitigation stockpile area construction entrance errosion control if they're having a dumpster on the property where are they going to have the dumpster is this the one where you said you're going to have a truck and put it right into the truck I suggested that could happen okay good that that was in The Narrative yes which what made me think about how to get the truck somewhere that control a lot of stuff comes back to control but that narrative also gave the option of a dumpster not just a truck yes it did so if it's going to be a dumpster where's that going to be if it's going to be a truck where's the truck gonna any way it sounds like there's like some sort of sequencing that needs to happen you know I would try to reroute the erosion control use the driveway as your staging area until you can't do it anymore so just modify the plan to show the erosion C going up one side um for that matter maybe maybe the erosion control can be a little bit higher closer to the house and you can put some cars down at the bottom but I'm GNA stop thinking about it that's so I have those things uh and then um and and then provide a plan that quantifies in the proposed degraded area I'll send this to you in square footage in percentage in the riverfront so so we can get an understanding of what the increase is if there's any based on the 10% that you're allowed and that 10% within the riverfront we've gone through this with d it includes everything that exists now now so if you're over 10% now you have to mitigate for the difference if you're under 10% you can go up to the 10% but anything over it you have to mitigate for that difference so that's that's what we're looking for but those those like chart or um a table wasn't provided so we would like to see that that's kind of standard for this commission it's easy just to kind of roll with that on page two of The Narrative it says approximately 3,656 square feet will be altered um and I assume that's all within the 200 so but is actually in the outer 200 yeah yeah right um we're ignoring anything that is the existing house the existing swimming pool etc etc that's beyond the 200 so we're only asking about the section between the street and the 200 foot lines so that's where the 10% is counted right well includes the driveway right yeah so all impervious area within that well which is what I said earlier they just eyeball it I think you have to be over because 3600 square feet of addition that implies you know 10% that means 36,000 and I don't think you have 3,000 square feet in the riverfront area so just from the back of the envelope it seems like you're over the 10% so once again it's GNA push you into the mitigation so the key is with this is you know it probably would be a smarter idea to reduce the size of the driveway but um what's underneath the addition so all that gets minused out not actually gets minused out but in a way you figure out how much you're over it now and you don't have to mitigate that because it's kind of grandfathered it's what you're going on new grass for or any pervious surface being covered up by impervious surface that's what we want to know and then with that where I'm trying to get at is we would like to understand if that's a large number then it would be a large amount of restoration or mitigation that would need to happen um does the commission need a alternative analysis are you satisfied that this is the only place where this addition can go I think that would there's already an alternative Alternatives an there is one okay I S Tony shaking his head so we're good with that that doesn't have to be uh discussed anymore no I think we beat this to death you sure you sure think it's time to move on should we move to continue you think we should somebody do a motion ask I did oh she said yeah oh I I didn't answer but yes please do I move to continue the application n the 57 Longwood Road to the next meeting December 11 I second that Walter tets in favor Cher in favor Tony rakus in favor Marth Moore in favor bro in favor thank you thank you very much okay next 62 Scotland Road public heing on RDA is anybody here for that acation let me assume you're talking to me stting here and lost the projector I know I think it I I noticed that and seeing if it's going to start up again on your screen can you still see the people who are in the zoom fall I can there Walter looks concerned so I think that he doesn't know what's going on let me see if we can get this screen oh here comes back we should be fine in a second I can hear you yeah okay here we go okay Jack are you here did I give you uh did they get you in hold on a second Jack all right so Jack has uh permissions to turn his screen on Steam also what is a hand raised has permission to turn our screen and video on and um ready to go I think that's all we have is anyone else Jack here for this Chuck Kristen yep Kristen's on yeah Christ and Brad and Brad okay there they are okay so which one of you want to um tell us about your project please introduce yourself for the record sure uh for the record my name is Jack Sullivan I'm owner of the uh Sullivan Engineering Group and um on tonight with uh the owners Brad and Kristen dhy of 62 Scotland Road um they're proposing to construct an inground pool in a bloomstone patio to the rear of their existing dwelling Norse Environmental Services had gone out delineated the bvw um there's a a drainage ditch um that goes through a 12in drain on the PIP on the property there's no evidence of a drain e Minesota associated with that pipe but there there is a drainage outfall there through the ditch and there's BBW associated with that ditch um the nearest point of the patio construction for the pool is 74 feet from the wetlands I do show a a 12inch diameter mulch sock um that will line the construction access to the pool area in the patio area they do have an existing deck and Patio off the off the rear of the house they're proposing some stepping stones to get to the the new pool patio in the inground pool presently the entire backyard is surrounded with fencing so we don't have to worry about installing fencing for this pool project the fencing complies uh with the building code requirements for for the fence regulations um there's only very limited um site grading changes um for the transitional grading for The Pool and Patio construction there's no trees to be cut as part of this project uh since as I stated the patio 74 feet away I I looked at this as an RDA project and not a notice of intent especially with the limited site grading and no tree removal I do show where the proposed pool Mechanicals will be they'll be tucked in at at the rear of the existing house um and there is an existing structure that they're going to look to relocate they haven't determined yet where that will be relocated but I did put a note that would it would have to be outside the 35 foot no structure Zone and the owners are aware of that they just haven't figured out yet where they would like to put that in the yard um I know Chuck had been out to the site uh because North environmental had some questions on the delineation I know Chuck took a look at it I'm not sure if the commission has looked at this site or not but I think take at this point I'll turn it over to the commission for any questions okay thank you are there any questions I have a question um from the plans it looks like the proposed inground pool will be saltwater um I'm just curious what what are the chlorination requirements of that and how is the how is the pool going to be dewatered for the winter Brad would you know how they're going to maintain that do do they have to B uh back wash or do anything for the system you know um I believe the water stays in the pool so we're working with environmental pools um so there's no chlorine because it is salt water um and I believe from other friends that the pool is filled throughout the year um and then we will have an automatic cover that closes um in Winter cover yeah I don't really question but with environmental pools is the company that we're using because there there are discussions in in in the Wetland protection act about uh discharging pool water particularly chlorinated have to go back and see if there's anything for salt water but we we' want to make sure that a large amount of volume of saltwater discharge isn't going to aviously affect a freshwater Wetland if it if it were to be discharged to the land surface in some of those cases I have put in um like a bed of crushed stone like like an area so that if if they did have to draw down the pool um we could do something like that just put in an area where the water would would go into it could still be over a grass area but we could we could put Stone underneath it so that it in encourages uh the Water to [Music] infiltrate not convinced though that we want to be infiltrating sea water essentially oh it's worth doing what you said about checking the regulations I don't remember anything in there about salt water but I'll look again myself as well any other questions w three hi I have a I have a few questions one is on the discharge of that pipe on the uh on the uh east side of the uh property the source of the water is that from the street from the dorm storm drains I believe it is and where does the water go that's on the uh down spouts on the side of the house on that corner Brad Kristen you one down spout my I don't I remember looking at it when we bought the house so I haven't opened there's a a sewer cover in our yard which I haven't I tried to open recently but I can't get it open but I think one down spout in the back leftand corner of the house drains into that it drains somewhere under thegr I'm assuming it goes into that same drainage ditch I I really don't know if for certain though yeah I noticed also that uh storm cover or pardon me that cover on the North side um and I was curious what that was I really don't know I mean the the prior owners never explained it to us and we never asked the questions at the time um and I I don't really remember 100% what it looked like I tried pulling it off over the summertime I I couldn't even get it off it's so jammed on tight um but I do think I do think I mean I know that the um the down spout does go underground so I'm assuming it goes goes into that same drainage system I must confess I did not know much about saltwater po saltwater pools so since our visit the other day I done a little bit of research and salt waterers as a pool is great for the human body it's much better than chlorine however salt water is very very corrosive to anything to do with metal and I'm curious to know why we have a uh mechanical system more than a 100 feet away from the pool are there any metal pipes or metal ducks that the water's going to be going through uh it it just seems like a very very long distance if that's where the pump and the feeds are as far as I know it's all going to be PVC but I don't know for certain the only reason the mechanical were over there is because that's where the person who did like the landscape design and the pool design thought was the best spot for him it may be the best spot for the electrical feed if that's where your internal panels are I'm not convinced it's the best spot for the uh actual pump and feed yeah they ask the pool company yeah I mean the gas Line's right there too so um it just makes connection for that a little easier too but you know it's a little outside my wheelhouse I don't really know and then the other thing that was a little um interesting I guess would be on the southwest side you had compost piles um that seemed to be within the 100 foot range where um what SI is that like the back is like the back corner like the far Corner look look at this diagram the upper leftand corner oh yeah there oh I don't know that's that's from the prior I mean I've I've thrown some random debris back there like like uh dirt and stuff like that but a lot of stuff that's back there is from the prior owners I can't say we dug into it and evaluated thoroughly but it seems like there's some natural materials that should be removed perhaps I don't SP a lot of time back there but I mean maybe so it looks like a lot of yard waste there's I mean we have landscapers who you know don't dump anything back there so those are the comments that I have okay thank you how long have you owned this house uh 2016 June so about eight years years um it's just a thing I noticed and I failed to put it in the report to to Chuck um it seems like there's a lot of tree stumps in the backyard um as we walked around there were trees that clearly had been cut down at some time but I don't know whether those were when you were there or whether they were the previous owner uh some were the previous owners some we took down ourselves because the trees were dead we've had a couple trees companies come on look at a couple trees we were concerned about and both tree companies agreed that the trees were dead and I mean if you look at the stumps that are out there the inside of them are all rotted um completely rotted out in the middle so it was the right decision in our opinion to take those down and one tree that the stumps not rotted out but was actually the tree we were most concerned about based on the fact that it hadn't shown leaves in a couple years yeah um in general when you're within a 100 feet of the Wetland you're supposed to um let Chuck know that you want to take trees down and have them approved by him so um certainly if you're looking at any other trees you're concerned about you now know how to Chuck so y make sure that any future trees you're running by him before you have them taken down de you're certainly allowed to take down but you still have to check with Chuck okay I didn't know that but we'll do that in the future um I guess my question is Jack Sullivan said that because there are no no trees to be cut and no sight grading to do that he thought this was an RDA but generally we expect swimming pools to be a notice of intent um so I just want to bring that up whether this really would be more appropriately brought to us as a notice of intent and like I said the real reason was we're 74 feet away with any structures so where where well outside even 50 feet um for your buffer and I think in the past I I have done some inrs when I'm over 50 feet away I've definitely done above ground pools when I'm over 50 feet away and read you can do above ground pools at over 50 feet away for the cons for our conservation regulations right in reading and above ground counts as a minor project in ground does not yeah St law it does but runting is different anything else um I don't feel like this would be a project that would be hard to approve but as I said I would be more comfortable if it was a notice of intent okay um I have a few questions uh my first one is what's the square footage of the new patio going to be um if you go to your second question I'll I'll get you an answer to the first question um my second Point relies on the answer to the first point oh okay let me give give me one second yeah okay well I'll make my point anyway while you're looking so the reason I was asking is because again looking at minor projects in Reading they'd have to be under under 100 square feet that's why I'm wondering what the square footage of this one's going to be okay I'll know one second okay on Jack I got you in faster than that AR you an engineer usually I am it took a while to load you're making the the patio area is 4 420 square okay so it also is not a mind project which also makes it more significant um your construction entrance is on the left hand side of the house facing it from the street 420 square feet thank you uh the construction entrance is on the left as your facing it correct all right so that goes in the area where that previously discuss discussed manhole cover is any thoughts on concerns about weight and maybe causing some damage to whatever is down under there I'd have to see where their gate access is through the fence we could probably put something around that structure to protect it so no one drives over it I mean the manhole covers to the to the right of the gate so it's it's be kind of tucked behind there's a little two foot wall there it's tucked in over there so there wouldn't be any trucks driving over that well I'm not worried about the manho cover I'm worried about whatever passage pipe or whatever is underneath it because I don't know where it goes it comes from and so just concerned about some truck going over it and causing a problem I suspect it be kind of old too which would be more of an issue I mean we've had trucks in the past to do some of the tree work and there far as we know there hasn't been any issues okay I just wanted to bring it up um let me see what else did I have um so those are really the questions I had the others were answered so I'm in Martha's Camp as well given it's a in ground pool in a patio that's larger than 100 square feet I'm definitely inclined to think in a WI versus uh RDA is there a big difference it's a different process yeah I mean it would take more time because you're going to have to submit an noi form and then we're going to have to have a meeting to discuss that um isn't all the information basically the same yeah you you already had the plans you have a lot of the background work so essentially it's a different process it it would it would be the exact same plan exactly yeah so in in this I just look at it like even you'd have your you can impose some conditions with the RDA and it's like we said there's no it's a very limited project um I I don't see what a full notice of intent being this far from a wetland what the difference would be compared to an RDA so my thoughts are I do think there would need to be some conditions having to do with um Z yard waste in the back there's a pile of dirt in the back that's been there for a while um and so part of my thought is not only is a work itself fairly significant but attach in many conditions to an RDA just isn't done um and so that's why the overall picture to me feels like we need the framework of an noi to get um to get where we want to go with this because there's a pile of dirt in the back of my yard I don't no because it's an inground pool with a 424 square foot patio and happens to also have a pile of dirt but the pile of dirt is not the determining Factor the fact that it's an Ingram pool with a 420 foot square foot patio is what we're concerned about right but it's also like Jack said it's over 75 Square uh linear feet from wetlands and if you I mean if you guys lived out here it's never wet it's it's I'm actually surprised it's even categorizes Wetlands I mean maybe there's some vegetation in there that qualifies as Wetland vegetation but that that is dry 99% of the Year unless we have a rainstorm and then it's wet and then it dries right back out right but but that's not really the point it is wetland in the area it is within 100 feet it is two pieces of work that are above and above our level of a minor project and um yes is a pile of dirt but there's other things back there too like what address well like the yard ways for examp example wa but it was pre-existing what are we supposed to do about that it doesn't matter because if it's on your property it becomes your responsibility all right then I'll get it out of there I don't I don't understand why this is going to get held up so let me try and explain the the the form that you that you used the direction that the two chairs are going in so the an RDA is a request for determination the determination that is made from your check off box is is whether the work is within the buffer zone and can be um done without any alteration to the area that's protected under the wetlands protection act and so if the commission decides that yes they have jurisdiction but and also yes that there could be some alteration based on what we've discussed about the salt and the maintenance um and we went with this form there's no check off that that works and also if we just pushed it through with a few few conditions um we're essentially saying that this the work isn't um the work doesn't rise to the level that it needs a wetland permit in the first place and that's simply not the case I mean a lot of people see this permit as a lesser conservation permit but it's really a determination to find out whether you need a notice of intent or not um the other thing that didn't come up that I wanted to mention is because you probably have a maintenance plan and the commission would want to memorialize that through recording at the registry of deeds and that can't be done with a request for determination of applicability which was is the result of this this form here and the third thing I'm going to mention and I mentioned this in my email is that typically the commission doesn't uh do this and if we did there would be a precedent so I don't see where you're moving your project above and beyond other people so they also couldn't have this accommodation so the commission tries to be um consistent thank you very consistent with other uh residents in town and I I think that I don't remember um you know usually small additions even if they if they have a foundation and they're not a soner tube or pool which is just like putting in a foundation would always have a notice of intent so that's the best explanation I can give if the commission goes in this direction but that question hasn't come up now we have some other questions and it's the entire commission that has to take a vote so you could continue on get the information that the commission is asking for and see what direction the commission goes when it's time to make a decision I think that that's where we're at yeah and I don't I don't think commission members and Chuck I don't think we were saying this is a minor project but I also don't think this Rises to the level of a notice of intent um if you approve an RDA with an inground pool I did one I just did the As built today at 15 Carriage Lane it was an above ground pool 24 foot diameter 35 feet from a wetland I'm sure there's maintenance requirements but that was right at the 35 foot no con structure line that got approved um in this case I I just look at this project they're 74 feet away no trees to be cut and minor grade changes it's besides what we talked about this sounds like you you want some areas cleaned up I don't see how a notice of intent would do much more than an RDA this the the the it's still going to be the same if we do a full notice of intent it's going to be the same exact plan that comes to you that gets approved yeah I agree I mean it's it it seems very similar but the but the um consistency and the recording and the um and those things are are what's different I think 15 Carriage I do remember that plan I think there was a fence that segregated Disturbed area or useful area for the family um and area that was just to be left wild uh and there was possibly some trees that were going to be planted and I'm not sure that project had anywhere else to go um pushing it up or pushing it down doesn't mean that makes it okay for an RDA but we could look into that and I could add that to the commission's uh you know distribution so they could look at 15 Carriage Lane also it was above ground and it did not have a 420 foot patio oh m is yeah Jackie you I I thought you were talking no it it it did it did not have a patio but it was also exactly 35 feet from the wetlands I think there should be some you know they're situating this about as far away from the Wetland as they can um it has to go in the rear yard um and to make them go through a whole notice of intent where we do that we're going to have to re notify a Butters it's it's more fees you got to pay the fee to the state for the exact same project I I I I just I have some trouble with that but if that's the direction the commission wants to move in then we'd have to go in that direction I just feel it's going to be the exact same plan we see in front of us today and then it's just making the homeowner go through additional hurdles and additional costs even the example you brought up Jack wasn't wasn't the same it's not apples and apples and the no but the point being that was approved 35 ft from a wetland right at the and you're right there there weren't other locations to really put it and they're different projects but I'm just trying to make the case that the the you know the patio 74 feet away in this case it's a pretty level lot we're not on a steep slope like if we look if we look at this it seems like a prime I I don't think it sets precedence for other in ground pools because just like we're talking about with Carriage Lane every site is different you you could look at every single site and say it's it's a different case I don't think the commission should feel if they approve this as an RDA it sets a precedent if we were to continue this till December 11th and voted that it was a positive determination on December 11th and you then had to come back with an noi then we'd be into January if we suggest that you come back with an noi today you can come back on December 11th with your noi and you save a month and I heard the homeowners were concerned about delaying their project so I know this is a tough time of year to bring us projects because we only me once a month in December and November but the speediest way for you to get your answer I think is to come back with an I on December 11 if I can interrupt Tony actually had something they wanted to say Yeah you mentioned the cost of Ren notifying the abutters um what what was that cost $200 in an hour and a half in the post office plus plus another hour and a half filling up the forms I mean it's and all the fees to like you know Jack we're representing this meeting again so it's it's very costly to send out all of those notice of certification it took the post office an hour and a half for me to stand there and send it to 35 of Butters probably took me over an hour and a half to print everything out put in envelopes fill out the the forms it's it's just it's not a small task it's not easy to send out these notifications and as you can see there's there's no one no none of my abutters are on the zoom call I mean not there's not one one Mr model behind me who has a pool mind you inground pool was on it for a little while he he jumped off for whatever reason but there's there's no one else that's has any issue the other question I had Jack is if if it's the same plan and the same project between an RDA and an noi why noi filed initially so to to get off through this the applicants knew when it came in I I raised the red flag the I let them know on 1031 that this is not typically an RDA Jack felt like for the reasons he stated tonight that it that he'd like to move forward uh the legal ad was um sent in on just just lost that I think it's at 11:4 so a few days later we kind of proceeded so before the legal ad was even sent out and the applicant uh homeowners were included in that um email because I just wanted to make sure that everything was above board because this this did seem to be something that the commission would pick up on so by ignorance is the notice of intent for is the notice of intent for you guys or is it for the Neighbors the the point of a notice of intent is it is a more um firm document with regulations that you have to follow and it gets recorded at the registry of deeds a um RDA if we choose a negative RDA it slides under the radar and we put some conditions on it but you don't have to turn in your operation and maintenance plan and you know there's no recourse for the Conservation Commission if things go wrong um because we've essentially told de that this this project does not rise to the level of needing a conservation permit even though it's within the buffer zone or resource area so for us it's our next that are that's why that has been drawn with conditions and and pools so it's it's frustrating I understand that and there's a lot of nuance within the wetlands protection act it's not just a different permit it's it's the correct permit it's a permit that allows the Conservation Commission to put it in the right category to maintain the operation and maintenance plan and to ensure that things are built in the in the way that they were presented to the Conservation Commission our only recourse if we went through with this project under an RDA is to send you an enforcement order if things are done right on and we always have to worry about Big Brother looking over our shoulder which is TE saying well why did you approve the project in the first place I mean we're using a very reputable Pool Company you know it's you know I'm not my brother you know it's no we understand that but obviously any work done by humans can have problems even a good company occasionally makes a mistake or has an issue and this would allow us to be involved in the resolution of the issue whereas in RDA we're basically saying we're not involved to have a nice day I guess my frustration is it sounds like there was a z% chance you guys are going to improve in RGA instead of just coming out and saying you weren't going to improve an RDA you kind of just tiptoed around it and now we're in the situation where we lost a month we're going to spend hundreds of more dollars we're going to spend hours of our time to just have the same conversation again it's it's I understand you guys are trying to do the right thing and you guys have a job to do I get it I'm not trying to be disrespectful but it's just it's incredibly frustrating we need to follow our regulations and and that's really what would regardless of what our personal feelings are we we have to follow the regulations we have we have Wetland bylaws that kick in here we have state regulations and we need to follow them right but the RDA seems like it's checking all the boxes Jack's done this for years and he knows it just as well as anyone but I don't want to speak for Jack So Okay so we've gone round and round on this um do you want to agree um to a continuance do you want us to go ahead and vote you know close and vote I mean Jack I'm thinking close and vote what do you think I mean yeah if we close and vote and it the boote comes out we need a full notice of intent then we'll go that route just hoping it's going to be the same exact thing you have in front of you today okay so let's close and vote given that can I have a motion to close move that we close the application for request the determent of applicability for 62 Scotland Road I'll second that Walter tets against against closing Walter this is the vote to close you're voting against closing J sorry Walter tabs in favor thank you uh Jer in favor Tony what in favor of closing baramore in favor rbo in favor of closing okay then can I have a motion about the applicability it would be a positive determination if you want to ask them to submit a notice of intent that's why it wasn't would be a negative determination if you wanted to approve this project as you've U reviewed it tonight we typically vote for a negative determination so if we were vote against a negative it' be a POS domination it would be denial essentially of the exactly question yeah you're saying positive it is in our jurisdiction you say imp positive that it that it's within our within our the resource area and that it's going to alter it so we need to yeah they said it's within our jurisdiction so if we vote for a positive determination they have to come back with an noi they don't have to come back they can they don't have to do the pool but it's not approved right here so um does it matter which way rephrase the motion is there just the issue of positive determination and I think that's that um you have jurisdiction and that you're you have a concern about um possible alteration of the resource area so I'm going to move that we vote for a positive determination of applicability for this project second for that I second positive determination means that we're not in favor of this going forward absolutely correct I'm in favor of a positive determination um yeah I'm in favor of than for wasting our time apprciate Mar Moore in favor ran in favor okay okay all right thank you and um you know sorry about confusion and the frustration but um yeah talk to Jack and uh and reach back out if you need anything and uh thank you thank you everyone okay so next is old new business um violation notices the only news there is we got an email from 445 Pearl um essentially the homeowner Michael Rivers has found some rotted Timbers that he has to replace so he sent pictures of it and he invited us to come out and look at it which I haven't done yet but so he's continuing to move forward he just found a hiccup along the way okay so and discussion items zero in that lane um we were waiting for some support documents uh for both the restoration and the tree damage Chuck did we get the documentation we're waiting for we just we got documentation uh from an arborist that's known to be very reputable in this town in other towns uh I know that he works with many conservation administrators that part was taken care of uh he's made recommendations to use lack Balsam uh in the tree he says the trees aren't um the trees aren't suffering any structural damage through that um through the the the damage that was incurred with the moving of all those stones um but I you know I do want to let the commission know that typically when when a tree is damaged it's it's one tree two at the most and this was six to seven as he said I thought it was more than that and these are all pretty bad uh gouges yeah gouges and damages I have a picture of one but I'm sure you saw them on the website um so anyways that's that's my report I what about the other half of it do we get anything on the restoration no report on the trees that's my report on the trees so what about the restoration the restoration we asked uh and I've asked a lot longer than this about having a restoration document outlining the fact that this had happened and the proper procedure by a qualified professional uh detailing what the steps needed to be taken are to um to ensure that the lower or the upper Wetland area next to the the boardwalk would be restored in a correct manner so I was told more than three or four times that Lucas environmental had been out there the same person that showed up to the to the meetings and they would be providing a letter with all that information in it have yet to receive that I have read to receive any information from the owner I only talk to the uh the arborist about this project but it seemed like they were moving forward these things just don't seem to be coming in so so that means we need to talk about next steps right next steps um can we treat them separately looking at the tree situations from one perspective and the restoration from another perspective would do we have to treat the issues there as one issue you can you can ask me so what do we have out there we have uh we have an enforcement order you can ask me to update the enforcement order and and um just separate them in your instructions and we can do different things for each one okay do anybody have any comments questions on the situation very unfortunate that it happened in the first place okay but now we're here right so my view is that we need to do something to get their attention in the case of the trees since we did get um a recommendation from from Moses uh I think we should apply a u time period by which the remedy should be affected so apply the uh La bossom in a given time period and then they would have to monitor it for some period of time to be sure that it actually worked that my take on the the tree side of things and I will say and I actually put that same material on a tree that was damaged on the path going up to the Pavilion at the Tera cabin and it has worked just fine it's if you don't know to look for the spot it is hard to see where the C was so that's my thinking on the trees as far as the restoration side of things um I I'm inclined to their attention by um giving them a relatively short time period to get our answers or we would begin a fine process so having thrown those things out there what do your thoughts on either one of those approaches don't know figure bus so you're you're looking for a time schedule for for planting possible Replacements no looking the recommendation is to repair it with to to put a Band-Aid on the wound basically and so this what I'm thinking there is just to put a time period on them getting that done and then a time period for how long it has to be monitor to be sure or what Walter's got a hand author yeah what what's our empowerment as a commission to do that just for information purposes or do we have any those trees were supposed to be protected and they weren't a number of them were damaged and so this is now us taking the next step to uh remedy the damage we we can't stop the project or do anything disapproving right I don't know CH I don't think we can it's not like we can say fix the trees or you can't can proceed well they're operating under an order of conditions right yeah we can when it comes time to to close project we could keep it open until it gets fixed doesn't get fix well I don't so to be honest with you I think the fix for those trees is going to happen that's that's what I'm hearing but it would be good to have a time frame to say well before like December 15th you know we I'll go out there and check it out I mean we can make that the fix I think that part is all set as far as the restoration of where the soil which is it's kind of like the outer edge of the resource area because when they took down all the trees they needed a spot because I guess they didn't have enough trucks they needed a spot to put all the wood chips and so it was piled up like right at the edge of the Wetland and then spilled into the wetlands and then went down into the Wetland and so all that was cleared out then red then scraped off and I think the owner did some more work over there some things have sprouted up but it looked horrible at the start it was damaged by the wood chips and then it was damaged further in his remedy when in fact he had been told not to do it but to get advice from a weapon scientist as to how to do it hence I think that is a higher burden well I I think it's important to to be honest with you I think it's important to get the evaluation because for all we know he could have done exactly the correct thing not saying he did but yeah no like to see that could have done that it could be a seed bank in there could spring up in Spring um you know the Wetland scientist should be out there I I I I mean I would certainly say when we we did allow some work and in a Min of plan change uh with some sort of like storm drain structure I mean I don't think any of that will happen again until we remedy the situation but maybe you could update the enforcement order and I could send it back out to have the black balam installed with pictures of each tree sent to the Conservation Commission before uh December 15 and um you would like to see a uh an evaluation as far as I know um Lucas environmental has been up there that's why I've been told by the end of the month so which is Saturday so I'm fine with your thoughts on the trees I agree as Tony pointed out we do have the ultimate checkpoint when they go for uh certificate of of compliance we can y your n based on the health of those trees among other things if it's the same owner ruin my there I'm not saying that we don't have we still don't have jurisdiction but it's always harder to yes you know yeah but at least at least the work will have been done the material will have been applied we have seen that work in the past in the recent past so I think that's a good step in the right direction I'm still not happy with the rest I'll get back to you in a second when you started talking started talk go ahead um with with the restoration side of things I agree yes if they give us the evaluation that's trying to get it just we've heard for a while now that one has been created and we haven't got it you haven't got an answer from the guy he's basically ignoring what he was asked to do after he caused that damage I think we need to get his attention he's obviously not reacting to the first enforcement order or has not reacted well half of it started I'm not defending it I'm just saying you know that is a fact I'm just telling you you have spoken a fact I'm gonna suggest that instead of giving them till December 15th you give them till December 10th and then we can have a report on it at our December 11th meeting I would rather have that than wait till January to have a meeting about it I think got the fine idea so if they can send you the pictures by December 10th and then we'll know it's been done in time for our meeting if both actions haven't happened by December 7th is there anything I need to write into you enforcement order yeah we still find it why not choose December 8th and then we can physically go and look and on Monday a site visit on the nth do that F by me so back to your question so what do we do if they don't meet these conditions so we have the option of a finding what other options do we have let it go yeah I know I just want to make sure that you're not finding because you know they're not paying attention I mean is this is this is this a $300 a day find based on something that could actually grow in on its own and the other half of the project is happening I just I'm not asking you for the number you're going to give on the fine I'm just saying that $300 a day fine is for like someone who's discharging grease into the Wetland or something like at that level it's anything that no I know it's anything but you know you would so we have a situation where they damage trees and have finally given us an evaluation of that that's good now we we want them to finish the tree situation they have not done that officially we have heard that they had a report produced created we haven't seen it we don't know if it's any good we don't know what it's going to say let it go and be back in one one growth season or two we don't know all we know is we've heard nothing there's crickets and it's winter time about the one portion we've heard a lot about the the tree yeah and and as Tony knows uh this to be true is that some of this these Wetland with Wetland plants and stocks and whatever they have to overwinter to germinate correctly so there's a freeze cycle that needs to happen I said nothing about they have to have it growing again or else we have to get them to give us that evaluation we ask for how long go yeah no I understand that but the next step would be that they would plant and if it is time this year they would plant I mean that's what I was no going to wait another year to plant I think depending what they're going to plant lots of options that you want to do lo you can do live staking you can do there other options so depends but but the first step is we got to see the evaluation the report based on that then we can figure out the second step I I'll do that tomorrow I'll step up my game I'll reach out to the I'll reach out to both I actually you know sent the emails I've only gone the AAS to to write back and I think it's because the AAS has been in front of this commission representing other people in town and so I know him a little bit you know I know him less but I I do know him I think that I think he's like well you know I'm gonna I'll get i'll get back to him not going down the but whatever okay I have some I have December 8th Walter and I have four fines we want the work done on the trees with pictures and we want the eval prior to the eth so we have time to look at it before our meeting yes yeah okay anything else to be said on that topic good okay conservation DPW monthly meeting December 10th that's late why is it's so late you sure it's the 10th our meeting is the 11 seconding it right now and that's the second Wednesday that's the second Wednesday the first one third it might be the it's probably first Wednesday is the third yeah yeah it's the third okay yeah I would have expected it on the third are you still available uh yeah okay I'm ding for you guys to take a day off at some point just so you can attend this meeting so you can see what you're missing okay next one administrator's report Chuck do you want to give us some updates yeah I just want to let you know that um Simon's way uh the soil evag relation is moving along I haven't seen the report I've asked for it been assured that I would get it as soon as it comes into the town send out an email but it's better to just keep in touch with the engineering department they'll let me know when that comes in there was an email that went past and it said there was nothing found seems like it's good but that's that's uh you know not substantiated I guess so the other thing that's happening at Simon's way so I'm gonna move on did you have a question Tony you're look late the other thing that's happening at Simon's way is like there's a skating rink and then back of the skating rink is kind of a grally paved area that's never been paved a second time so it's mostly gravel um they're going to be using that area for the trash barrel roll out what they're called trash barrel totes and those have to be assembled and um I think they said they can do a thousand a day and so this will be set up to assemble those trash barrel Bo that that area is not within the conservation's jurisdiction but as you drive up the road there is a wetland kind of it looks straight through the brush and back of the back stop for the for the ballpark and so there was no conservation you know requirements on that project so that's the second thing that's happening out there what are those totes for B yeah you're all getting a new tote a 64 gon Barrel instead of our own trash can they're designed to be picked up automatically Rob the trucks they've been out on display in the hallway for a year and a half now haven't noticed he's just been throwing trash into the music walks by have a giant sign on convenient this is on trash today where I drop it so okay no but that's that's coming up because there's also a permit coming up at our next meeting to create a storage area more permanent storage area at the end of Simon's way um so those are the updates that are happening at at did I say the end of Simon Way the end of uh Stout AV so that's going to be a more permanent storage area at the end of stout a storage thebly is happening on Simon's way super temporary won't as soon as it's done everyone moves out the storage is on stra app permanent containers within the fenced area next to DPW and water department owned structures with high voltage that's why it's fenced off this a fenced off area that was never accessible to the public and you say containers you mean something like a um thing that would go on a container ship like a cargo ship yeah a big metal box and they're gonna alter the area I mean kind of jumping in front of it but they're going to grade out the area put down some gravel they need to run some electricity there's a you know it is close to the resource area but it's on top of lawn it's in you know the use is going to be seldom from what I heard it's they need a certain amount of containers to swap out ones that have broken or they need parts so they're just going to grab the parts and assemble them I think the commission would want to know is there a change in use is this a storage area or is this going to turn into a workshop that would be one thing do they intend to increase the area where these containers there going to be three or four is it going to be other containers for you know air conditioners or like gummy gummy bears or something like that whatever they going to use these containers for so is it's just going to be restricted to two so this is coming up in uh December from the DPW that whole area if it's not mowed is protected through the state so they're just outside of that area so it's Visa protected just like where the the brush is there okay okay but that's not for tonight so tonight gave the next thing is pollinated G at Birch mow so I had a great day a couple weeks ago we've uh Mike Hanford uh and his guys dumped out some soil uh at the last minute we were told that um I had found something with the backo that would help me spread out the soil and volunteers come in but at the last minute I got an email from the DPW Department that said you need insurance for your operators and people and you need a hoist license for in order for them to use that machine on Town land well insurance was easy that was Nob brainer that's a Next Step uh The Next Step uh Ministry is insurance we use that there it's their group and no one had a hoist license so we ended up spreading out all this material ourselves and uh you know luckily the piles are placed close together but it was a little bit of work for a lot less people than I expected to show up but the people that did show up and I want to give a big shout out for the next step group and um the Baptist Church here in town and Ed Bennett who has been very helpful on a lot of these projects they all stuck around some of the kids were like 10 years old 11 years old they all stuck around they seem to have a great time always very positive um they had a uh an adviser with them uh just a young a young adult advisor who was doing probably most of the work but uh it was good and uh we got it done and now there's four inches of top soil on top of the pollinator garden and Phil Perkins has already planted a bunch of seeds out there that he has found and germinated himself in his own greenhouse and then um through Kathy Kelly of the trails committee I received additional seeds from Resident and reading and those have also been Incorporated in this area and it's Upland and Wetland mix these seeds so hopefully next year we're Further Along on that so that's all I had about those two projects we had a few um we had like a couple hours left to kill the day because there was a barbecue at five o'clock no I didn't go to it everyone else did and we spent those two hours weeding over at Imagination Station so they were all good for that too we were pulling up the mug wart and other things that we found we cutting the Japanese the Oriental bitu okay as long as you're talking so much you want to talk to us about town meeting says the chair you want to talk to us about town meeting sure so town meeting was the other night uh we had two articles of Interest out there first off the transfer article 14 from from lot five which is uh 371 371 Grove Street as requested by natural heritage specifically missan Marill who I've known since got was in Boxford and um she had a request that the land wasn't developed beyond that and she wanted it uh transferred to the Conservation Commission so that would be protected under article 97 so without much uh comment last night that had happened and uh we got that transfer so now the deed will be uh put together by Town Cil and that land will be under our control the understanding of that land is um you know General day-to-day stuff that's going to be all up to the the trails committee not Town Force committee but if it's a major change they want to do like a new bench A New Path something like that they're gonna have to talk to the Conservation Commission they all agreed to that seems fine they don't have much changes down Force committee really more or less administrators administrates things and doesn't really get out there like the trails committee and does does uh projects so if it was ever an interest in planting on the hill beside the stairs who would be responsible for that well I think that would be a conservation project but it would be need it would need to go in front of the trails committee to let them know what was going on and get their import from it also and just to make sure they didn't have something that may go up in that area I think that's an excellent spot for uh for planting it's been in the works for many years we have a plan it's been approved by natural heritage we're just waiting for um and we actually have the money too so we're just waiting for a volunteer group to say not only can they plant the material but they can water it throughout the summer which is step two did which kind of killed it on the first go round okay yes everything will be run past the Town Forest committee as anything that would happen that project would be run past the Conservation Commission um so okay I think that point needs to be made more than once to the DPW department at one point you mentioned Trails committee and I think you really meant Town Forest committee oh it's context he did correct himself planting on that Hillside you said we would want to talk to the trails committee to make sure they didn't have plans for it uh yeah they're not going to have plans for it but but no really meant Town Forest Town Forest because it's connected to the town forest in a way it's an entrance into the Town Forest they don't own any of the land around it water department it's uh the golf course and it's an easement but it's a connection so it it seems to be Town Forest we don't want to muddy up the waters yeah I mean if they had ideas and they were good we certainly would support it so yeah if that ever happened one speaker at town meeting questioned um the rules the rules Jen Hillary you were watching no she emailed me oh okay because the question was um if we own the entrance to the town forest and conservation makes different rules than the Town Forest committee who's determining the rules about the entrance to the town forest and I I think we're just gonna well that's why I spend so much time talking about it I didn't mention Jen Hillary at the beginning but there there has been a plan I mean we go to the town Forest meetings yeah there's always a representative conservation there it doesn't make any sense to change the rules in this one little spot when the rest of it is something different so it's going to be the town Force rules in in the lot five parking lot if we're only talking about major work you know what we're going to call major Which is less than what would DPW would call major yeah I appreciated Jen Hillary's question it's you know those are good things to think about but but we talked about that already several months in advance okay okay so anything else you want to talk to us about yeah all the all the Town Forest articles were were passed they got $150,000 $50,000 to remove the Red Pine $100,000 to do invasive removal it was supposed to be a substitute motion to spend the money any overage or any money left over that wasn't spent on the uh the uh invasive removal or the Red Pine removal would be spent on planting but but the time didn't allow so um they did say they were committed to planting and maybe this will happen but we didn't get a substitute motion and they were supposed to put it in the in the bid document and somehow they didn't put it in there either so it's it always seems to be that thing that Brian always gets kind of myed about which is like how how are we going to replant and they said there's a seed bank in the ground and it's and our Forester says it's going to grow up yeah but the competing plant is Buckthorn which is going to grow 10 times as fast 10 times as quick and reproduce 10 times it already is in the other areas of a cut it's not as if you have to guess you have examples and as soon as it's shaded again none of that seed is been to remain dormant which can remain dormant for 15 20 years but still that that second part $100,000 for invasive removal that's this year not when the time to move on not when the invasive start to grow so and the other question was how often do we have to do invasive or follow this treatment plan they just spend $150,000 on this work and they just said less every year less every year that it comes up okay oh we should move on I think it's accurate that it would be less every year in the areas where they cleared but there's more and more areas they haven't touched to even thought about invasive removal should be a significant expense again again and again in order to actually make a dent otherwise all they doing is a holding action in the areas they're already clear I think that um I think that um the information we got from the trails committee guy who's the bder forgot his name Dave Williams Dave Williams I think that speaks volumes for what can happen and maybe they have to like say oh and then get this area here because some Buck Thor has grown in not as much as before you know I don't know what's going to happen out there but it does Conservation Commission always evaluates and gets reports for five years okay okay treat for three Val for five all right so I'm moving on unless you want me to talk more about this I'm sure you want to but no I'm good I'm I'm surprised I so let's talk about minutes for approval um there's a lot of them here built up we got to catch up as best we can um did everybody have a chance to review 911 yes yes okay um I got some comments sent to me and I did an update and sent that out with any other comments that we need to put into it okay can we have a motion to approve minutes for 911 I move that we approve the minutes for 911 I second that Walter toets in favor in favor in favor more in favor Ryan in favor moving on 925 is everybody had a chance to review 925 did get comments from thought there was I think the I miss Chuck's name and I also had to add other I haven't done that you spell Chuck's name wrong no I did add it oh going to say that's only fa because I spelled your name yeah I need to do that and send it okay yeah and also we usually put the additional people who are at the meeting at the top right so any other comments that need to go in can we have a motion to approve it as amended I move to approve the uh September 25th minutes as amended I second that Walter tets in favor sh the lior in favor marus in favor Mar Mo in favor Brian B in favor next one October 9th and N same thing uh I need to add those two comments you have some some comments make any is anybody a chance to review that does anybody have any comments they need to bring up right now I move that we approve the minutes from October 9th as I second uh I CH in favor not that way it's only 10 in favor Marth more in favor Brian B in favor last one on here yeah mine aren't ready yet was the October 23rd still got some gaps to fill in from YouTube so we got a lot of those done yeah um so before we close is there anything else that we should talk about please say no okay can I have a motion to adjourn please second at 10 minutes a date uh 9:37 okay all in favor great thank you get a lock down in a short time all right see you e e