##VIDEO ID:N4xQ-gKtzUc## e e e e e recoring in progress his Walter just real quick right someone notices Walter's in or he raises his hand and let me know do this okay we're gonna start uh hello everyone this is Chuck terone the conservation administrator this meeting will be conducted in person and remote format consistent with chapter two of the act of 2023 which further extends the covid-19 measures regarding remote participation in public meetings until no March 31st 2025 please note not all items listed uh May in fact be discussed and other items not listed may be brought up for discussion to the extent permitted by law the um agenda includes those matters which can be reasonably anticipated to be discussed at this meeting note that this meeting is being recorded and that all materials are available at the conservation division page and I will provide a link to that page as soon as I'm finished here and then Brian Bo is the commission chair and Brian will facilitate tonight's meeting please note that there will be a public Comon period for each hearing each vote will be taken uh during this meeting will be conducted as a roll call vote begin with attendance and Brian can you please review the agenda great first we'll set the roll call um still no Walter so he's coming right now so do him last okay so I'll do the agenda review first then uh we have a full agenda tonight so we're going to try and move right along uh the first one is a continuing an RDA discussion on 29 green metal drive then we'll move into uh opening a notice of intent hearing for 32 Harvard Street uh then we're going to continue noi conversation for zero seedar swamp next is to continue a public hearing on notice of intent for 57 Longwood Road then open a public hearing on notice of intent for 62 Scotland Road open a public hearing on a notice of intent for zero fine Street fine Street MBTA sliff um and then mov to old new business and a handful of discussion items uh followed by um administrative administrative report and then minutes for approval so as far as the vote goes we'll go in the following order Walter can you be first you let us know you can hear us and state your presence I can hear you Walter talet commissioner present arer member presid Martha Moore Vice chair presid Michelle a member present rbo chair present okay um then we should get right to it and the first one as I said is 29 green metal Drive um chck can you see you see anybody out there yeah um it's right here on screen there you go um can you hear me all right perfect good evening everyone my name is how are you just can I ask you to um introduce yourself for the record that would be nice to start yes um thank you yeah hi everyone uh my name is ell good evening thank you for the opportunity to um to talk to the uh committee today I'm a resident of reading um unfortunately I couldn't be there in in person I I have very young kids at home so I apologize for that uh but I I've had the opportunity to meet at least some of you in person um hopefully I can present the changes to the plan that you had recommended and uh uh see if that uh that is something that the commission finds it favorable he do you want to walk us through um the updates to the plan that you're presenting yes um so I'm going to share my screen um so I just wanted to check it do you think it it's a good idea for me to just revisit some of the uh context and background that I shared last time or should I just straight uh jump straight to the the we are we are trying to move right along so if you could just get to the changes I think we can stay with you okay perfect um I'm going to share my screen um please uh let me know you can see it yes we can okay perfect uh sorry I'm other things on the screen though also yeah yeah sorry I'm trying to fix that hopefully it should it should should be okay better all right perfect um so um I I I'll just stay on two slides okay the first one is basically what I had presented last time which was on 23rd of October uh again just to give a quick background this is um uh this is a view of my backyard uh there is no construction we I'm not asking to do any construction no patio no swimming pools no roads nothing it's it's a plan of about invasive plant management and Native planting um the reason why we are over here today because a portion of my backyard it is adjacent to the conservation um land uh there is a um a bvw Zone away here and the 25 ft buffer zone is going through my backup which which is this red dotted line over here uh what I had proposed is that hey in my plan I'm going to remove all the invasives which are just taken over it's really detrimental it is not only taking over my but my neighbors and the adjacent land which is um the uh which is are owned by the raing open trust land um so the uh from uh from from the last meeting the conservation committee was favorable of all the removal of invasives uh what they wanted to understand is hey look uh can we make this a little bit better from a native Plantation um so I have gone ahead and made changes and that's what I will share with you right now compared to what was presented last time and had a couple of discussions with Mr tone as well and he also helped um and and and guided me uh with some recommendations uh so what are the changes there are five changes uh that we have made to the original plan uh the first one is the buffer strip which originally was 5 ft I have extended it and I'm I've changed from 5T to 3 ft so that buffer strip nothing will be there only the native funds which are already present today they they are there but I'm not going to do any kind of um uh any kind of changes to that uh what the SEC so that's the first change the second change is within the BBW zone I'm going to add more native plantations um than what that is than than what was before so so uh I have put a addition of skunk cabbage or an equivalent wet plant uh whatever is available at the nursery at that time or or or the vendor but it will be native plants native plants that we are going to add uh over here uh I'm also proposing one additional Button Bush um or equivalent uh plant over here that is marked over here as number three uh the number four is that which is the issue that the conservation had last time it was there was grass over here what I'm proposing hey look I'm not going to put any grass uh this is going to be a no more Fue so there would be no more way um it will be a no more Zone uh it will be planted and and then then that that will be that of it and just to add with uh you know with um uh the habitat I'm proposing that hey look I'll just put a bigger bird bath I do like birds I do like uh natural habitat uh so that's that's another change I'm going to put over here uh the thing that you see over here temporary wooden bench that is outside the the 25 ft Zone uh so is the bird path there it's it's not going to be permanent it's going to be something that you can lift it with hand and move it but it's going to be outside uh it's just for uh you know garden furniture some garden furniture that we can go outside and sit and enjoy the nature uh so overall from from the original plan basically I have added 60% more buffer coverage uh I've added more native uh twice the number of native shs and plants bigger bird bath uh no grass it's converted to a no mo Zone um uh so that's those are the key changes uh the five big improvements to the original plan that I've made okay okay uh that's all I had to uh share any any questions any okay okay thank you for uh making the changes let's see if there's any questions or comments anybody on the commission have questions or comments on these changes my question is you said you're changing a five foot Zone to a three foot zone no sorry I I it it was originally five feet now I'm changing it to8 feet so I've added three more feet to the buffer okay that makes more sense sure of course any else I don't have any other questions Walter do you have your hand up no uh Chuck do you have anything I don't um at this moment I don't have anything okay um I figured you'd say something but I just wouldn't give you a chance uh I don't have any questions either um so at this point um we probably could move for a vote a vote to close um so can I have a motion for vote to close on 29 Green Meadow I move to close on 29 Green Meadow Drive all Cher second okay vote wter talins in favor choer in favor Martha Moore in favor I don't think I can vot on it because I was last time good point um Brian B in favor okay now we need a motion to for determination theability judging what I've heard I think we want to do a negative um determination a negative to allow them to do the project yes okay I move for a negative determination of applicability oh Chuck do we want any conditions first yeah good point okay does anybody have any conditions they want to add to this yeah so I'd like to ask the uh applicant if um they submitted an um maintenance plan with this um application did you hear the question I just wanted to confirm if I understand it a maintenance plans means um uh like after 6 months or after the first summer uh or a suitable period the the the um the applicator of herbicide will come again and do a second application to ensure it that's what was uh given in the original plan as the maintenance plan is is is that the correct understanding Mr that's for the uh the herbicides that um you're going to use U part to do and what I'm asking is how are you going to ensure the survivability of plants that you're putting down there which won't be what AR is doing unless you let me know that and maintain the lawn I know you said there's no mowing but you can't just not mow it for years and years and years yes uh so we're approving this plan how in other words how are you going to maintain what we've are about to approve and so if you don't have a maintenance plan for this area I was going to ask for one as or suggest the commission ask for one as a condition uh that you provide one uh to maintain this area and uh approvable by myself uh so it would be something that you and me could work on just to make sure the commission is uh you know gets what they what they want in the future and so that would be something that would need to take place prior to uh you getting the document that the approval document are you okay with that I agree yeah okay are there any other conditions anybody has CH you any conditions okay then we are ready for a motion who Walter has his hand up so sorry Walter you're in the glare up there that's my brightness coming through um I was just worried that do we still have him removing the invasives and picking up the trash per the previous meeting yes yes the the the original plan of removal stands yes I fully agree part here will do it um the changes is only to the plantation plan thank you okay have try again okay I move that we issue a negative determination of applicability for 29 GRE Green Meadow Drive uh I second that Walter Tabit in favor J in favor Mar Mo in favor Brian B in favor okay um so that means that you will work with chuck on that maintenance plan and then he can uh take care of any paperwork all right thank you very much thank you team have a good rest of the evening bye bye bye bye okay next 32 Harvard Street uh this is opening so I'll read the blur open the public hearing on noce of intend followed by Elanor shanov pursuant Massachusetts General Law chapter 131 section 40 the won's protection act you know the reading Wetland protection bylaw section 7.1 the applicant is proposing Renovations of a single family house a portion of the house will be rebuilt a small addition to the footprint will be added and a second story will be added the driveway will be expanded and walkways will be reconfigured the rear yard will be regarded slight sorry regraded slightly to resolve the ponding issue all the work is within the buffer zone to bordering regit head Wetland the application and plans can be viewed during regular business hours at the Town Hall conservation office 16 low Street Reading m867 and on the conservation division page under the project by year assessors map 26 L 117 the EP file number 27 270 d790 okay is anybody here for that project Ian from Meer Rim is here Ian can you introduce yourself uh for the record and uh let me know if I uh if there's anyone else uh elener is here but uh anyone else that's coming to the meeting tonight sure um so my name is Ian anley I'm engineer from Meer brem representing the applicant I am here with elener shanov who is the property owner in the applicant I'm also here with uh Steve deferia from Phoenix Architects uh he is the architect on this project uh let me see if I can pull up the plan okay can everybody see the plan yes yes okay so this is 32 Harvard Street it's an existing single family house if you're looking at the plan Harvard Street is down here toward the bottom the bordering vegetated Wetland that we're going to be talking about is in the rear back here and then the single family house is in the middle going to zoom in so what we're trying to do is put an addition onto the house right now it's a single story house we want to take down a portion of the existing house rebuild it and then add a second story to that new area as well as the existing portion of the house um we're going to be taking out an existing deck in the rear and replacing it with a screen porch and a smaller deck um the driveway in the front we're intending to expand that so the two cars can fit on the driveway rather than one uh then we're doing some kind of fine details in the front uh moving the walkways to up with the driveway and new entrances and such um the other thing we want to do is remove the there a small shed in the back that's actually partially within the Wetland uh we want to remove that shed as well as a um gravel fire pit that's right next to it we want to remove that um with all that said the impervious area difference um from what's there now to what's going to be there at the end very small difference it's about 250 more square feet of impervious area um but that's mitigated by the fact that we're removing impervious area right up against the Wetland and we're removing a deck that's within your 35 foot no build um zone so we're taking a structure that's in there taking it out making it a little bit smaller back there so the additional impervious area was kind of pushed away from the Wetland compared to what's there now um the other component of this is there's some ponding that's been going on in the back bonding just kind of sits there during the Spring has nowhere to go you can kind of see this dashed line here that's generally the area where the fonding is uh we want to take that and do some fine grading um kind of add 3 to six inches so that the wand can drain back to the Wetland instead of fonding in the yard um so that's that's just the project and um I'm happy to answer any questions great thank you um Commissioners questions and Walter I don't want to leave you out since I can't see you so do you have anything you want to bring up I would obviously like to thank Eleanor for joining us when we visit there this past Monday she was very helpful I have two major comments um you're talking about putting fill uh in that upper leftand corner uh in front of where the old fire pit was yes there's like a there's like a burm there can't that burm just be leveled removed and that would improve the flow yeah so I think in that corner where that um fire pit is that's probably what we would do is just take that out and let it kind of gray naturally the fact that it's ping here suggests to me that it's sort of a low point that it has nowhere to go so that that was the thought process for the fill um is to fill it up so that it's pitching toward the Wetland rather than collecting in the middle my other observation on Monday was my God there's a lot of weird stuff in the wetlands um we found CRTs we found tubes we found a lot of good stuff uh like to have that removed yeah I think we'd be okay with that as a uh Department okay anything else Walter for my position that's fine thank you thank you TR anything you want to bring up um yeah some of the trash in the Wetland included some empty flower pots so add those to the list and also some what looked like they were trash bags full of leaves that had decomposed and so there's um scrap of plastic black plastic trash bag um I'd like to see the plastic removed as much as possible I think the leaves are so decomposed at this point there no point in trying to move them um I am concerned that the um lawn goes right up to the Wetland flag line and um if you're taking out that gravel area um I see an opportunity for adding some native planting maybe in that area to make more of a buffer between the Wetland flagline and the lawn and um also perhaps in the area um coming down towards the corner of the house where the Wetland line comes closer to the house I would love to see a little planting going on there um maybe a tree that likes to have its feet wet like a red would be an appropriate um choice or a swamp oak or some shrubberies something to give a little bit of a buffer between the yard and the Wetland so when you're thinking about the ponding issue um that would be an opportunity for some some native plantings that don't mind being wet so would you want I don't think we have an issue with that um I think I would want to see a planting Plan before they just start planting things but they could just give it to Chuck if we're going to vote tonight I would be happy to have Chuck approve whatever they come up with okay let see anything else you want to bring up um those were my issues yeah um so you're going to be digging up some area when you're expanding the driveway what are your plans for handling that material that you dig up sure so that would be removed from the site um that's a typical thing that would get removed and um disposed of properly we would not you know put it anywhere else on the site so you would remove it right away yes yep so you don't have to worry about stock piling it or anything absolutely yeah it's a relatively small amount of material yeah um what about the material how you going to handle material from the shed and the fire pit where you take those out I would assume the same I would assume that would get loaded um onto a vehicle and removed from the site also in real time uh yeah yeah I would say so yep as they take it down they would load it into um into a vehicle in the front and then on once it was full it would get taken out okay and where are you going to stock pile the building material that you're going to use for the addition and what have you that I'm not too sure of um I I know you'd probably want to see it as far away from the Wetland as possible um you are correct sir y so I I would suggest um somewhere in the front yard if it's feasible okay so you you need to make a decision on where that's going to be and to update the plan sh that stockpile sure can do that okay and what's your thinking on a construction entrance well we have the existing pave driveway there now so that would be my thought for vehicles to enter to utilize that driveway that's there currently okay okay um in your in your plan you're talking about uh putting in some PA walkways are these perious papers or impervious papers uh the intent was to be impervious although you know they would allow some material in but we are not intending to do prvious papers unless it's something the commission you know strongly desires have you considered um previous papers is there a reason you wouldn't have used them uh it it's more costly you have to dig lower remove more of the existing uh material and you have to put in a good amount of um Sanda gravel beneath the papers to promote the infiltration so it's a little more expensive but it would offset the admittedly small increase in the impervious area though right sure yeah it would okay we we'll consider that um how do you propose handling rainwater off the uh the roof when you're done with the um Second Story and the addition so I believe currently it's downspouts and Elanor correct me if that's incorrect um I think it downspouts into the ground and then runs off on the yard um since we would not be really increasing that area it's really a vertical addition um I would keep it uh similar to the existing condition with the down spouts am I allowed to talk okay this is Elanor from 32 Harvard um current right yes currently the downspouts go into the yard and then we sort of angle them out away from the house and we haven't talked to Ian with about this yet but I did have some plans to work with the Department of Public Works to get the barrels that they have to just recapture some rainwater um I don't know if that affects anything just current thinking um Chuck do you want to talk about what we've been doing with roof water sure uh so um the commission always asks since 2011 that all new structures are the roof runoff for those structures are infiltrated into the ground so you would be held to that same standard okay as opposed to recapturing it well we don't so sheet flow is not what we want I think ultimately you're going to help yourself um by doing this anyways because I understand the neighborhood has a lot of uh water sheet flow water issues um so I just wanted to add that if you can't figure out the best spot on the existing um on the existing addition you can use an equivalent amount on on the house that's existing so um one or the other but we'd like to see infiltra from the roof runoff into the ground into Chambers okay just to make sure I understand correctly um it sounds like that is only for the new area not the entire house or are you trying to see the entire house put into the um Chambers that's not been what the commission's asked so whatever the new area is that's what we would ask for so you might just capture the back gutter or something like that um yeah it's a very small when you're talking the building the increase in the footprint is very small I think it's like 40 square feet so although even that is what about the uh what about the sorry Brian about the screen porch is that on top of existing it is that's actually a deck right now so the oh okay and Chuck when you say Chambers are you talking ctech Chambers or could it be a stone drip trench yeah right it could be it could be but I just want to get back to Ian for a second although um the actual increase in perious imperious surface is quite small it it would be it wouldn't be um advantageous to me Miss up this opportunity to add this into this uh project so I would encourage the commission to you know ask for something like the entire back gutter so it would be half I'm not sure how the roof line breaks but that could also be something that you come up with I wouldn't like to see 40 square feet being infiltrated into the ground around in some sort of uh small chamber um like I said there's a lot of issues on this on this uh Street we're not addressing this to this applicant in particular it is something that we've asked for consistant um is that area it says existing garage and the proposed porch would that equate to grabbing everything off the back gutter I mean that's a calculation you have to look for that that would be something that I would be strongly in favor of seeing okay do you have do you have an issue with that or anything that we've talked about so far I don't have an issue with anything we've talked about and I don't know if you have questions but I don't understand the chambers I just don't actually know what we're talking about are you talking about like an under I could explain it a little bit um I don't know if you're familiar with dry Wells um it's basically a tank that goes underneath the ground the roof goes through your down spout it goes in the tank and then it infiltrates into the ground basically yeah um the more modern version of a dry well was like a plastic chamber um does the same thing it's just shaped and looks a little bit different um but basically it's an underground storage container that um is open at the bottom so that it can infiltrate into the ground and the purpose given that our backyard is like the groundwater is sometimes surface level um and we've talked to Chuck about this too I think before the possibilities of something like a a dryw so the purpose would just be to um put the water lower into the ground is that okay it's true basically to try to reduce the direct run off from the roof into the Wetland okay and to take some of that water out of the storm too so it would decrease flooding in its own way Ian you might find out you don't have groundwater at the right height and you could come up with some different Alternatives at that point but at least we would like to move forward and see if that if it could be installed and so first step where is the groundwater yep okay I just wna say one thing I would not discourage them from getting a rain barrel um in addition to what you're talking about it's um given all the drought we've had this summer people with rain barrels can water their Garden if there's rain using the roof runoff not the um tap so um I think I encourage rain barrels but I think I'm GNA also bow a chuck for the um for some infiltration Chambers I think you could get away with having both on this house thank you okay um next point I want to make is I want to strongly agree with Martha on some planting um especially in the area where you're removing the fire pit in the shed seems like that's a great opportunity for some plants and Ellen when we were there you said you like trees a good good good chance to put in some trees go ahead oh I was just agree yeah so do I I'm Adam by the way we're I'm just I'm not used to people agreeing with me so I was surprised but okay um okay so we do want to see a planting plan and in addition to that area in the back left if you could spread them along the uh the Wetland line itself so you you're you're creating kind of a natural um Zone in there which is what we often could you put a number on that like a five 10 25 foot vegetated buffer strip what do you it's not a not a great lawn we've done in the past once this big I'd say three feet is sufficient thanks anybody disagree yeah there's not much room for more than that okay um and that was it for my questions Chuck do you have anything you want to bring up yeah I wanted to ask Ian uh the sil fin seems like it's pretty far back from the project can that be moved up to the 25 foot line for this project it can the only reason I have it back there is because of this little regrading that we're going to be doing um one option is to put you know one line sort of behind the house and then have a separate line kind of right behind where that grading is going to happen so the so the grading yeah let's keep that that finish um for a second and let me finish with the grading question so the grading is I see where the line is that where you're going to stop is quite close to the Wetland itself what is the buffer between the Wetland and the end of the grading that you're going to do and how are you going to keep it in place and ensure that there's no erosion so I have it about five feet from the Wetland line and the reason for that is I need to grade it so that it can get into the Wetland so if I'm filling you know over here and this right here is below the Wetland you know I I need to make it so there's a gradient that goes to the Wetland and it's a smooth transition um what would happen is when they put in that fill which it's not a lot I'm thinking like a couple inches uh they would compact it like they would uh fill on a construction project and by compacting it that would keep it in place um and then it would be seated as well obviously so if I um so it's going to be no more than two inches of fill from the house back to the to the Wetland I would say somewhere in the realm of 3 to six inches probably mostly three but you might get once in a while a small spot that needs a little bit more there's not a whole lot of room to work with I don't want to fill it too much and then you wind up with the situation where now it's spawning over here instead so it's going to be very minimal and there has to be sort of a u complete transition from the back of the house to the Wetland what is the timing for uh the grading and seeding because it seems like you're going to open up the whole backyard there might be an opportunity for movement and um if you could do this and then Hydro seed or whatever you're going to do roll out s quickly that would be the best so what's the timing of this project Elanor do you know um what your timing is so and Steve is the architect he's here too um we are intending to file with the zoning board as soon as possible and have already sent out the plans we have three different contractors that we are trying to get bids from with an anticipated start date of somewhere in Spring like April maybe March or April does that answer the question if if there was a condition on the uh order to not do don't don't do the grading between November and say March 15 would would that work is your I don't know if your architect would want to chime in on that I'm just I would just like that to be um taken care of completely all at once instead of uh you know waiting to with the ground open I understand but I'm not sure I have the expertise to weigh in um we've never built half a house before Steve I see you coming on thank you I guess sure um is someone here to talk about this I can just continue to talk I would just say that lucky and the contractor would be doing this from between April and the fall and then it would everything would be fine um but you know we now we don't know if you're hydr seeding or rolling out sod and so there is a concern um so a condition to not have loose soil in the back so if you grade it out you're going to take away the top soil it's going to be all loose and when the rains come it's going to solidify and head towards the well and and create more of a problem than you would even imagine uh so I'm just trying to eliminate that so they could grade it out get it right and then finish it off as quickly as possible and that's that's what I'm hoping to do by eliminating November through March 15 in the uh process of um taking care of the lawn has nothing to do with the addition the building inside outside with any of that it's just it's just yard work uh my thought is maybe some kind of condition that says the building work and the yard work could occur you know simultaneously or near near each other um so that it all be done sort of one continuous project versus separated into two well that doesn't address my concern that's not really the issue the issue is just to do the grading during a Gro season so as soon as you put down the seat or whatever you're going to do it takes right away establishes um the vegetation and so you don't you at least you minimize the erosion okay yeah so I mean we're fine with the condition then that um you know starting in starting in the spring I don't I don't see starting much sooner than that anyway I mean you could certainly dig the foundation do whatever digging you're going to do and the screen porch and all that grade out the back seed it and then move the erosion control right up as close as you can get to the building because the land Landscaping is done now and then you'll be out of the ground and start working on construction so you could do something like that too uh it sounds like it might be a discussion with your contractor when about timing an Ian U all right so I had grading I had um theil tents planting in the zmv and the rain infiltration and I'm finished okay are there any other questions from the commission no okay so um yeah thank you for looking to Walter um so at this point let's list the things that we've asked for we've asked for a planting plan um we've asked for the addition of C Che C Che chamber Andor water barrels um not or not or and possibly and and it doesn't have to be C we're just looking for INF and I was going to do but all right so some kind of infiltration chamber um a place marked on the plan for material stockpiling preferably the front yard as close to the driveway as possible anything else that construction entrance um my thought was to use the driveway as the construction is there a note on the plan I don't think so that's what I asked yeah so just add a note to the plan to say that the driveway is the construction entrance yeah as long as adding the stock pile that's an easy two words to add yep was there anything else that came up um I think you wanted a buffer some replanting in the back yeah so we so we want just some more to understand the grading and how that sequencing happens we wanted to ask how far off you could move the sil fence that seems to be by with the grading so there's some questions there uh the zone of natural vegetation between the flagged Wetland you're going to create a three-foot vegetated buffer strip you're going to look into uh you're going to um look into uh rain infiltration and then uh a planting plan so we can see the native plants uh that you want to um plant out there and then uh stockpile uh in construction entrance sorry I was pausing there I had some notes come up on the screen and I was trying to figure out what to do and it wasn't multitasking very well yeah sorry um I want to add a note uh to that uh vegetated strip in the back uh the idea there is not to have a garden and then put down mulch or what have you uh is to do some native plantings and to have ground cover um out there with it so it's a natural setting close to a restoration poose to a restoration right um so the point is not to uh turn into a lovely decorative Garden back there uh Walter I understand you have your hand up although I can't see it in that's yes uh one of the conditions is also the trash removal good point yeah and we've listed a number of the items but Ellen you saw it when we walked around out there there's a whole lot of things that just don't belong there including the two whiffle ball so that that's what we're talking about is getting all those things okay now um I understand you wanted to make a point oh I just had a clarification question question about the three-foot vegetation plantings um because currently you can see the actual Wetland line comes out into our yard if you look at the right hand side there's a space where the Wetland comes out there's grass and then there's natural I mean things that grew not natural planting but things that grew there Noble and planted uh including some trees does the buffer zone does that mean to convert some of the existing grass into the is that where the native plantings would go too does my question make sense yes sure yeah um well at the very least you can take advantage of the area where you're taking out the fire pit and the shed so that's an area where you won't be touching any grass so that would be a good place to concentrate uh some some of your plantings um when you're doing the regrading um I think there's some spots where it actually goes right up to the Wetland line correct yes all right so that would be another Prime spot to do some plantings of the native plants and the ground cover as opposed to uh lawn grass um I think what she's asking about is the area on the right hand side of the plan where the vegetation tree line is way back from the weap so I want to just ask we ask for a planting plan so Ian can present something that elanar and the applicant agrees to and then you guys can decide I mean instead of Designing it for them yeah so Ellen are you work with uh Ian and I I understand your concerns and so um I mean you certainly you have an area that was lawn and then when the Wetland scientists came out they put the flag way in the way in through the lawn area and so your question is what if I just put it next to the tree row and the commission is getting more than they had before um and I'm so that's where it shuts out there that's something for you and Ian to discuss and then present to the commission uh if if that's what if that's what you want because what I heard was and what usually happens is we like to see it from the Wetland line out three feet usually it's the conversation starts with the plan yep happy to work with him to do that I stand corrected okay um so at this point I think we need to uh see if you would be okay with the continuation so these changes could be made and you could resubmit updated plans and the planting plan and what have you our next meeting is January 8th um do you think you could have uh these changes and what have you done by by a week before that time that's when middle time is absolutely so that'll be what the second it could be the new year first so you know the 31st or the second would be great yeah you can always prepare them while you're watching the ball games that' be great we'll do okay in that case can I have a motion to continue this I move to continue the hearing on 32 Harvard Street to January 8th I second that tets in favor in favor arth Mo in favor my first one I don't know if I was still yeah you're allowed to vote can you hear the he to Michelle in favor crbo in favor okay thank you thank you thank you have a good holiday you too you too okay next is continuation on zero Cedar Swamp in coming in now Andrew's on right so they're in okay um so quick status update we had sent you folks our um first cut at the order of conditions you will sent back some proposed edits so in order to keep this relatively short I will say that we accept um your proposed edits except for three of them and we can cover those three pretty quickly Chuck can you bring up the document uh sure first one is in the uh documents number 23 might be 17 might be 17 17 okay figes can you make the text any bigger Chuck yeah I can try here we go slider on the lower right I don't know if that was too much is that is that a jailbreak or what do we do here how tell me when it's good that's fine all right um so this one has to do with the language around or describing um the rctv uh recording of the uh me Mee and in it you're suggesting that uh we take out the information about how we um intend to use the funds that we would get from you we actually want to leave that in there we think it's important that we identify uh what our intended use will be so that one we do not agree with one yes go to the next one please I'm just looking for because it's so yeah looking for the red for the red should stand out with this size I think this is it yeah that one concerns me right so on on this one um we are intent was to have equipment taken out of the weapon area every night so it wouldn't stay there um and this uh this edit would make it so that's not necessarily true but we do want equipment moved out at the very least it can go to an Upland area maybe you move it um out of our jurisdiction into a neighboring Town that's also part of your overall project but um this is also one that we don't want to accept um your edits on uh regarding that one the reason we requested sorry this is Andrew Cole National Grid environmental scientist uh the reason that we were requesting that edit is because to do the Cason drilling the drilling equipment is positioned on a fixed point so that piece of equipment mobilizing in and out it's it's pretty significant to request that type of equipment to move and you'd have you have a workpace that has the equipment that's supporting that drilling activity so to ask for all of that equipment to mobilize multiple spans out of a wetland that that's why this Andrew you're making a good point so let's change it so um we will we will allow you to leave that one piece of equipment in place because of the issues you just talked about but as far as the other equipment where you don't have that fixed position situation we want those uh taken out each night they can put a spill containment system under that one piece okay yes that's good point Andrew is that acceptable and can you name that piece of equipment so I can put it in the order of conditions um say that last part again it was just hard to hear you so I don't know what to call it when I add it to the order of conditions so one piece of equipment is going to stay um uh commissioner wants to talk about uh some another condition that he wants to add to that but I just need the name of it so I'll yeah um I guess it does have a couple different names uh we could characterize it as a deric drill rig um the spelling on that it might take me a second to get to the spelling but if it could it be car characterized as I Derek sorry the Digger Derek Digger Derek or Dr yep and mean if this condition can just be expanded to say all equipment stored within Wetland will have a containment underneath um no no we actually thought about that um so wait a minute we have we have kind of an expert now right right next to you yeah uh so Andrew before we get into this um so what the chair said was uh he agreed that there's a drilling equipment that needs to stay but that other equipment the loaders and the I don't I can't name them all he's not saying yes to that exactly yep so skid steers ancillary equipment trucks all of that type of equipment would would be removed yep parked in Uplands it's just that fixed piece of equipment der drill rig okay and then um um Tim Michelle wants to say uh just with the spill containment system under the one piece of equipment that stays is that except yeah I saw I'm shake his head yeah yeah that's on track you can't move that out correct yep okay a chance that go underneath all of it just under the middle the motor part we don't have to chassis exactly like uh typically we can use an oversized or a large Kitty pool or something that's basically under the chassis so if you can hang on a second uh Chuck and Tim that's just in the center of that piece of equipment that's where all the gears and the motors are as there any other spots because the um they're putting it on a surface that has gaps and right above yeah mat the mats have G they're basically like square telephone PS and so we're concerned that any dripping would drip straight in so when when we're putting the spill containment I understood that it could be underneath kind of the center there's nothing on the tracks that is going to leave just under the motor that's enough yeah that's F practice I just put a big pan under the center of the machine okay I'm not sure Andrew if you have anything else to add to that no what I was describing is exactly what what he is saying you know under basically the components that would house any of the fluids so if there was a leak it's going to be captured directly under okay so you're in val agreement that's good want to move next one that's fine that we agreed that that this we agreed with I believe because they don't own the land not the rights so yeah we agree with this one these two this one here uh 39 wasn't um it wasn't strike out what what was is the comment on 39 um the same as 38 yes okay okay yeah those two were the same and this is the and this one's fine it's GNA go to you rather than the commission I think the the last one that was left was the one about um the way down here and having uh this one wanted to address engineer a so the thought is um we agree that the Wetland scientist should review and certify um components of this project that are within their um wheelhouse and expertise but there are others such as um uh that seem to need a engineer such as where the kons are going and all all the rest of that stuff so it didn't seem correct just to have sign off by the Wetland scientist so we wanted to request a review by your by an engineer also or you know really we just want to make sure things are going in the right spot so it could be a lanor also I understand yep so the the reason the requested change was was asked was that we are performing this work off of a general utility spec for the foundation and and sizing I mean to address the request would would an affidavit by an engineer basically having viewed it in the field be acceptable I mean so what I'm getting at is we didn't submit a plan that was engineered in that respect so they're stamping something based off of just a spec which is an engineer typically wouldn't be stamping um yeah I mean if that's if that's the best you can do I I think we'll accept it but you get our Point our point is the Environmental scientist can talk to that part of the project we want somebody officially to uh stamp the mechanical part of the project placement part of the project Andrew I wasn't able to take notes can you either say that again or uh one of the commission members let me know what that condition should be well Andrew do I see if we agree sure um on the screen I'm just seeing uh a which is regarding the Wetland scientists providing sort of a statement that it was done to the order conditions isn't it the lower lettering that you're looking to amend sorry just I just wanted you ask you talked about um certifying um a visual certification by a engineer who's uh done a site visit you know okay um I guess the applicant providing the applicant providing uh a professional engineer affidavit that the project was uh installed and uh installed per plans okay that was I think that was all about that's it so um Chuck will make the minor changes we just talked about um let's see so can I just ask a quick question sure um just below that section c struck out the two prints of the ASB built plans is that for the same reason that you don't really have engineered drawings is that why you're taking those big comment was they don't usually do as builts if I'm correct if I'm wrong nope that's correct yep yeah so there's just a general spec for this Foundation that's what they're utilizing and building to okay so given those changes can we uh go ahead and close just unless anyone else has some comments audition toat though right yeah I would just I would just make sure that we have okay there any other commissioner comments Walter I don't forget about uh people visit okay how about anybody in the general public um if you have any comment uh you can go to the reactions in the lower right and do the raised hand function and somebody who's not blinded by the glare up there can see it see see none um so it's reaction buttons uh it's the react button and then you would click on that and then do the raise hand function so again seeing none okay and then is there anybody in the room who wants to comment on this I know you're here for a different project but okay in that case I think we can close I move that we close on zero Cedar Swamp I second that I third that wal you want to start to vote Walter toits in favor in favor Mar more in favor B bro in favor Michelle in favor okay um and do we vote on approving this today um well the issue the issue we have is that the next meeting is uh 28 days away so um we probably should vote to have you issue and you can issue when when you can get to it in the 21 days so we want to talk about you know any additional conditions I think we beat conditions I think we beat conditions no there's a couple more so you wanna you want to get your check for the bylaw okay okay sure and and actually the longest check mentioned that Andrew my understanding is you're bringing a check by tomorrow that's correct yep good to hear thank you so Andrew I have a check already um I think that was for the state fees the check you're bringing is minus the state fees that I already have correct uh I might need to ask shaa to chime in if it is minus the state fees or I could hand you that check back if when you if you wanted you know because I understand that the amount we talked about corre is covers everything the amount of the check is yep the amount of the check uh does not include the state fee the state fee was was separate to it so that's that state fee is an individual fee okay so I'll I'll be depositing them both at the same time okay wal do you have your hand up yes I do uh my question is since we just went through negotiating that contract or that form shouldn't we see that form in its final print before we vote sorry Walter can you do that again since we just went through negotiating that form the agreement shouldn't we see it in its final printed form before we commit it's just the timing timing that's the issue I understand I'm just trying to be picky but so excuse me so so might as well ask Andrew our next meeting is January 8th if we issued and got you a copy on January 9th sent it out January 9th would that be okay so the commissioner's request to see a version maybe you want to see the final version also uh with that work does that keep you um that keep you on your schedule for this project uh it's already pretty problematic uh to be honest with you I guess I would prefer that the conditions that we talked through and agreed to could be voted on and that would be what is issued to wait till the next meeting then receive it have to record it uh line up the contractors I mean it it's we're kind of getting to a Crunch at this point so the commission my my concern is that we've been back and forth several times I thought from my perspective at least I thought we had agreed at our last meeting what the contract should look like we got it we gotta thank you let me see what chck has to say so the commission could close tonight and the applicant has nothing to say about that they're only request is to close then I could generate the final final send it out to the commission you would have to have another meeting before the 21 days is over to issue so we need to have a to have a special meeting that's all you would have to do if it's if it's that important you could you could do that and so looking at the calendar um it's the 11th you know I'm not coming on Christmas the 25th is open um yeah so next week we have week of the 30th which is for New Year I know we've been doing hybrid meetings can we have an all Zoom meeting oh yeah all right so that way if we can just have a quick meeting over and uh can close and we can set the meeting date at another time but it but you know with Christmas think think uh Walter you you're around right since you want to see this and Tony's area I'm causing the problem so I'm available good all right um what about uh next Wednesday we have a meeting at the same time on the 18th well what about let's let's do that offline because we get Tony involved you know Tony might want to be read this or okay um so Wednesday is fine with me what time you know like s seven again yeah so if it was next Wednesday the 18th it wouldn't need to worry about scheduling the room or anything could just resum there no good time for it all right that's at least you know it can mock that it's fine fine we just have to have a email thread text thread to figure out a a date but what we want to do then is we've already closed yeah so we just have to vote to issue um after we have that meeting or we wait for that meeting at that meeting wait wait for that meeting issue at the meeting so we need a vote to close and then we're done we did those we did okay so we're closed all right so uh Andrew we're gonna have a meeting soon as possible um I'll put the changes in right away uh I don't know what time you're getting here tomorrow but I can probably hand you a copy I bet uh and then it's all about when everyone's available and to talk to Tony our other commissioner yeah okay and that would and then do that work off works for Walter all right so that's it so do we have to continue to that special meeting we don't have to no because we've already closed I just double check all right all right that's it then thank you thank you for helping us log through this no thank you for your patience I appreciate it very much have a good evening than you I know okay next one continuing a public hearing on 57 Longwood Road 57 Longwood Road requested to continue until our second meeting in January and that is January make sure I get it right 22nd okay can have a motion to continue to January 22nd I'll move to continue the hearing on 57 Longwood Road to January 22nd second uh I for second Walter Talbots in favor in favor Mar in favor Michelle in favor rbo in favor okay that was quick yeah so 62 Scotland Road gonna open the hearing so I'll read the blurb open public hearing on notice of intent followed by Brad and Kristen Dary pursuant Massachusetts General Law chapter 131 section 40 the weapons protection act and or the reading weapon protection biue section 7.1 the applicant proposes construction of an 18t by 36t inground pool with a blue stone patio all work is within 100 ft of a border in vegetated Wetland the application of plans can be viewed during regular business hours at the Town Hall conservation office 16 low Street Reading Mass and on the conservation division page under the project by year assessors map 10 lot 215 theep F number 270 z- Z Jack's here and Kristen I did give you uh um co-host permission so you could turn on if you felt like it but Jack if you could just introduce yourself with Mission I'm gonna pull the plan up and you can discuss any changes or just I think you should use this as a new meeting and just brief overview of the entire project yep that makes sense to me thank you Chuck thank you commission members for the record my name is Jack Sullivan I'm owner of the Sullivan Engineering Group um before we get started I I do I notice on the agenda that uh there was no D file number yet assigned for this site but I did look it up uh this morning and it is D file number 270-0795 I'm sorry what was that 27071 0791 0791 thanks sorry yep um so for this project um it's a it's a backyard project Norse environmental um did the Wetland flagging there's a uh drainage ditch towards the back left portion of this property that has bvw associated with it um Norse environmental did the flagging and supplied um the bvw determination forms as part of the notice of intent filing um with that said the owner is proposing to construct an inground saltwater pool 18 by 36 with a Blu stone patio surrounding um the closest portion of the patio construction is 74 feet from the bvw um we're proposing a 12in diameter mulch sock along the limit of work line and provide um the access to to the rear yard um there's very limited grading changes associated with this pool um less than six inches and there's no mature trees to be cut as part of this project um all the abutters were noticed uh on this hearing the owners of this um I gave proof to Chuck that they were noticed um as you know we had submitted an RDA for this application but it was determined that by the commission that a notice of intent should be filed so it's basically the same plan I showed previous um but we did go through the whole notice of tent process and I should note there is a um existing play structure behind their existing patio that they they're going to keep they're looking to relocate it I told them it has to be outside the 35 foot BBW uh setback they they don't know quite where they're going to relocate it now but it will be I did make a note it should be outside the 35 foot uh bvw buffer um I think with that I'll turn it over to the Commission in for any questions um one question that came up last time I think I should just hit on it now is I think Walter brought it up um on the saltwater pool it's a cartridge system so there's no flushing of the water you just change out the cartridges for your maintenance for the salt water but at the end of the season if water did have to be drawn down uh and pumped off of the pool they they basically just they don't treat the the pool with salt for about a two week period um and then that way um the salt basically um you know is eliminated from the system and they're able to flush on onto the grass but um so to close down they basically just don't they don't apply salt for the two weeks prior to doing that um but if anyone has question questions from the commission I think I'll turn it back to the commission for questions are there any questions I have a couple um can we make sure that we get a conditioned to have an operation and maintenance plan that describes that um maintenance of the pool and um when you're digging out the soil to put the inground pool in what are you going to do with that soil it'll all be hauled off site there'll be no soil stockpiling it'll all be removed from the site okay um okay and um I'm concerned that the 25 foot bvw buffer um near uh Wetland flag 3A the grassy area goes very close to the um Wetland Flags that 25 foot znv is not 25 feet wide um I wonder if we could request um some plantings to um to increase that zone of natural vegetation in that corner would the uh applicants be open to that um do you see them on the call Chuck it's that's a question yeah we would be open to that and you're thinking like shrubs Martha something like that some native shrubs shrubs or another tree um I noticed there were a number of tree stumps there that seem to have died a long time ago and been taken down so there had been more trees in that area so is this this area you're talking about yeah um are you looking for everything out to the 25 foot line or just a little more I was thinking an extra five feet so pull it out 5et toward the grass um so it could be um 5 feet of shrubs so maybe I don't know six shrubs total um or four shrubs in a tree something like that yep that's fine so Jack I would ask you just to update the plan not to hold it up but just have that plan to meet with those changes and is something the applicants are with get the right dat yeah we're okay with that thanks anything else I think I'm good after that drog anything can't see alter wter yes at the last meeting I was questioning the well it's not on the screen right now oh there we are the proposed pool Mechanicals that just a circle what does that mean that's the area that they're going to um that's where the pole Mechanicals will be located right right right behind the back left corner of the house what is the definition of pull Mechanicals um it's it's it's the where the cartridge system would be for the for the saltwater change and it's it's like the the uh the circulation for the the water the the pump so they're they're pumping water 100 feet from the pool back to that and then returning it to the pool yeah it circulates it correct and it's not 100 feet I'm just I'm estimating by looking at the drawing yeah yeah we're 48 feet from the the pool to the back deck and then you know it's probably about 60 feet but for them it it makes a good loation you don't you want to put those in an inconspicuous location um so by put it tucking it into the back left side of the house I believe they talked to their pool company they said it could work and what is the material there for of the piping that's going to be conducting the liquid the water back and forth It's all PVC so it's non-corrosive and then I have a question because of my relative uh sophomoric wisdom with the commission has anybody else built an inground pool within 100 feet of the wetlands before in Reading yes yes yes yeah okay I have one more thing go ahead okay um I have one more concern that I always express when someone has fenced the entire yard and then has a pool in one area of the yard um it's not a um conservation issue but a safety issue um are you planning to have a safety cover or a safety fence around the pool so that children can't be playing in the yard and fall in the pool yes there's an automatic cover that will be installed wonderful thank you okay first um I have uh couple questions um Jack when you were just doing the uh the summary you said no mature trees to be cut are there any trees at all going to be cut yeah no no trees okay that's what I thought from The Narrative but when you said mature I thought I would check also as far as the excavation um what I've seen when this gets done is that typically the hole is dug um and while the majority of the soil can be taken away some is left around it in piles to fill in around whatever the molded pool is that's going in is this going to be anything like that it might depend what type of soils they find when when they're digging out if they were suitable to to fill in um if it was it might just be like a you know one or two foot high soil burm around the pool that they they grade back in into the pool edging so it wouldn't be a large soil stockpile area and how long do you think that soil might be exposed maybe a two days maximum okay and it is fairly flat lot so yeah yeah well but put this way we have a condition that if that soil pile is going to get larger than just a a big burm basically that you need to uh do some kind of covering for it uh so you know if we get a downpour then uh it won't wash away although I'm not too worried about it but just in case I'd be fine with that like they could put a plastic tarp over there some something and weigh it down with bricks or stones or something stock file is covered either every night or if it's not removed within two days instead of saying over five yeah yeah okay okay um that's all I have uh Chuck did you have something sure Jack you talked about the um pool equipment area um Mechanicals is there a trench between the pool and yes Y is it on the am I not seeing it on the plan oh I didn't I didn't show the trenching but there would be trenching between the pool in the in the Mechanicals um is it how is it is it just is it going to be a trench with like a back ho is going to just digging area out or is it going to be uh sprinkler system um no they they it it would be excavated with so they they they dig a a trench uh two to three feet deep from from the back of the house straight to the pool and put the piping in place right and it's all it's all I see that you have the mulch sock there so you're within that area I'm just surprised that it's not on the plan is that something you can add also since you're going to update the land with the vegetation yeah sure yep okay all that's a good suggestion that's a good idea so these are relatively minor changes so I would like to suggest that we could um close um if anybody wants to and um we could have Jack uh send the updated plans to Chuck who would be the um the judge as to their completeness and what have does that make sense works for me yes okay in that case uh can I have a motion to close the hearing for 62 Scotland I move to close the hearing on 62 Scotland I second toets in favor and adding of course Yer in favor Marth Mo in favor Michelle in favor Brian B in favor okay conditions play structure outside the 35 foot Zone maintenance plan um is available Jack you might just seem like it was only a few you might also add that to the plan I don't know if there's how much room there is on the plan to list a few things for maintenance but that would be something would be a condition I miss I I miss what you just said there Chuck add what to the maintenance just to have it available um sounds like oh I can put I can put that right on the plan yeah I'll put in pool maintenance and I'll I'll detail it so it's on one document and the other thing you might want to add on the plan is just uh any flushing would be you know upgrading of the 50 Foot line okay I don't see the 50 Foot line but would just going to have that as a as a number you know okay and then stockpiling will be hauled off site immediately and then the planting in the znv at and near flag 3A in 4A would um generate a five foot buffer strip and then the stock pile is covered if it's not immediately removed or on site more than two days and also one for uh cleaning up the yard waste towards the back of the property any others Walter I see Walter stand up okay so now you can have more discussion or another motion or I don't know what you want to do uh what I'd like to do is to go ahead and um issue pending updated plans going to you someone has to make a motion but I just prum to nod that that was uh in the card okay and is issue or approve the correct thing we're saying right now well you should say issue we're going to issue the order of conditions yeah motion to issue closed okay so notice of intent we issue an order of conditions well you would also you're you're always going to close you're always G to issue but we yet all right do we always close an issue on rdas right okay um I move that we issue an order of conditions for 62 Scotland Road I second that Walter tabbits in favor with the conditions right drugs the liquor in yeah with the conditions we already mentioned um Martha Mo in favor Michelle in favor right rbow in favor great thank you thank you very much everyone thank you everyone have a good holiday all right you as well good so I guess we're done okay some very patient people through all this I thought I would try their patience more um so next one zero fine V zero Vine Street open a public hearing on notice of intent filed by MBTA test nelli pursuing to massachusett General Law chapter 131 section 40 the wetlands protection act and the reading Wetland protection bylaw section 7.1 the applicant proposes construction of approximately 4500 linear feet of turn back track adjacent to existing Mainline tracks within the existing railroad RightWay and existing railroad Bast portions of the work are within the buffer zone to a border bordering vegetated Wetland the application of plans can be viewed dur regular business hours at the Town Hall conservation office 16 Global Street writing mass and on the conservation division page on their projects by year zero fine Vine Street from the train station to Willow Street near accessors map 20 lot 195 D file number 270 and no ending I 270 0792 0792 coms there are no comments they didn't have any comments okay um so so William uh hello and uh when you introduce yourself for the commission uh can you just let me know who else is here with you so I can let them in it looks like uh Fontaine has his hand up yeah I can say that right now JY Fontaine anarita and Jack's 12 is Jack Connors or John Connors gotcha okay thank you that's our team and I'm Bill Doyle um so quick introductions again Jeremy Fontaine is from MBTA anarita is from kolis and Jack um he's not up yet but Jack Connor's Jacks one2 he's uh also he's the project manager from uh from kolis be out there managing construction anarita and myself are in the Environmental Group I'm actually from C 1.0 engineering Consulting um and that's the team that's here tonight and hopefully we can answer any questions after we give a brief presentation I'll try and keep it brief you guys have had a long efficient meeting um with that said um Chuck thank you for your help this week and getting all this pulled together this week and last week uh can I share my screen and got to go through the graphics that we have you can yes all right I got a couple of graphics and then a couple of pictures in a separate PowerPoint so hopefully it'll uh it'll I'll be seamless over here I'm getting pretty good at this um and while Bill while Bill loads that I just want to make uh to say one point for the introduction um for the project that uh per Mass General law 161a Section 3 the MBTA is exempt from local bylaws I just wanted to state that since uh you did say it in your introduction okay yeah thanks for that um so uh with that said um we are here to present a what we're calling ter a turnback track which essentially is a bit of a turnout it's a second track uh adjacent to the existing track uh can you all see the um the graphic I have up it's basically your Town's GIS map with some layers on it yes okay um so to the uh to the left of the page uh the there's there's a uh is the beginning of the project starts at about Willow Street and I'll just try and draft you know my little red dots and things um we said in the in the application you know from Willow Street but really it's that was just kind of to get a placeholder for things the project doesn't start until way on the other side of the um of the Eon am not going to pronounce it right but the uh Arona Arona River um and it's actually uh you know most of the way on the other side of the of the wetlands and the bird sanctuary is there uh the so there's a a a limit of uh um jurisdictional area there and then oh my God someone's coming in my door right now hold on SEC uh sorry about that I don't know why someone's ringing my doorbell and dog's barking um so we have jurisdictional area on the west side of the project the Northwest side of the project and we have some jurisdictional area on the Eastern side of the project uh this is at basically between um uh mineral Street and and wubber Street down at the other end closer to the uh closer to the station the uh Depot as it's called Uh so those are basically the two jurisdictional areas um the Western jurisdictional area has Zone 2 Wellhead protection associated with it it has the bird sanctuary associ associated with it and it has um uh bordering vegetated Wetlands on both sides of the train track right of way um you can see that there is kind of the gray area in there that is buffer zone it's not Wetland the train tracks here are actually elevated on what I'm calling a kind of a Causeway is built up you know 100 years ago up above the wetlands so it's you know it varies between you know five and 10 feet above the wetlands so that you know you can imagine this thing slopes down and I don't know if you guys have had a chance to get out there and take a look um that's the Western uh the Western jurisdictional area the Eastern jurisdictional Area is uh again bordering vegetated Wetland and you there is a a Zone C surface water uh protection area that kind of encompasses that basically side of town um but really there's a there's jurisdictional uh uh buffer zone the existing train tracks uh the red line there and we'll get into a little deep more detail in the next graphic um but the existing train tracks lie between the new train track and the wetlands so basically we're on the opposite side of the train tracks for uh for this particular Wetland so there's really no no real chance of actually disturbance uh to the wetlands with the exception of some signaling that will happen on that side um I'll go to the next graphic and we'll talk a little more detailed as to uh you know where the work is happening so this is zooming in and to get our bearings again we have Willow Street um you know off to the left the West um we have the the the river that comes through here the 200t buffer on either side of the river we purposely stayed outside of the 200 foot buffer just to try and make things as simple as we can um we have the green line represents the wetlands to the North and the wetlands to the South again the train tracks are situated today on this elevated Causeway if you will um we're proposing about you know 567 ft in from the edge of the buffer zone uh we'll start building track and then that will extend East easterly to we have mineral Street here a match line will go down so this is all outside of jurisdiction from about that 567 ft that we see here we're outside of jurisdiction from here over from here over um so we go down continuing eastbound we go across underneath mineral Street uh as that's a a bridge that goes over over the right of way and then we continue down till we get to basically to wubber street or in in where the station is here uh you know right before the station and this is the other Wetland system that's uh that that exists again you see the buffer zone uh it does extend you know to the existing track if you can see this graphic the existing track is right about here and the red line the older red line that was there before that's the new the new track where the where the new track will lay um to note in this area we're we're also doing all of this work is uh is actually within ballast um and I'll show you a bit of some pictures on that next um but there's some existing uh control boxes and units and stuff out there and you'll see that in the gra in the pictures and basically we're going to extend some simp under within the ballast uh duct work to a signal that lies you know somewhere in this area up here um and that will be determined when we have the right sight distances and everything with the alignment of the track um I'm going to try and switch to some pictures which will hopefully kind of key us into things um me see if I can run this slideshow uh all right do you guys see the pictures the picture up on the screen yes yes okay perfect um so this is looking westbound we're past the mineral Street Bridge looking at the um you can see kind of both sides of this this I'm calling it again Causeway uh this is the the uh the rear Road RightWay as it extends through that Wetland area not all the way through Willow Street is way off in the distance you can barely see it in the back in the back there the two orange lines are my Railroad engineering version of where the track will generally be located you can see kind of this uh this uh oops I to go that one yet you can see this track piece here and this track piece here that flank the existing single line tracks those are just stockpiled track that are there those eventually will go where those orange lines are so those don't don't count those two tracks as being you know actual track today they're just sitting there stockpiled ready for installation the key to note on this particular PL this particular image is looking westbound towards Willow Street as we're going through that um you know that Causeway that elevated above the wetlands the W wetlands are the break of this slope way down in this area probably about six or eight feet uh maybe even 10 feet at this location down below this this Causeway this gravel area between the the railroad tie and the top of that uh you know the crest of that is probably 25 to 30 ft it varies a little bit but you can see the the um the sign the uh the uh the telephone pulls um this is where the track will go historically track was here um years ago uh before 95 way before 95 so it's not like it would be within that envelope of time um uh and the intent really is to put the set of tracks back here and Jack and or Jeremy can speak a little bit as to the functionality and what these tracks are for there won't be a sep separate fullon line going through here this is kind of like a pull off to the side of the road and let a train pass um but I'll let those guys explain that you know how that works uh but the key to note the key thing to note here is is this flat area uh that is essentially where the tracks will be uh in the uh in the application I talked about vegetation uh that would need to be cleared and removed what I was talking about is this opportunistic you know uh vegetation that has grown up in this area that has grown up in what has over time become slightly organic material that's filled in between the ballast rotting leaves stuff like this um that what will happen with this is this grassy stuff will be removed uh and some of this material will be scraped off the top because we can't put ballast and build train tracks on organic materials so we'll scrape that stuff off and it will be shipped out of the um out of the uh the jurisdictional areas for sure we're not going to dump it off to the side we're not going to leave it in the area at all it'll be taken out uh most of the work will happen uh you know via the tracks uh either with uh with special equipment on on the tracks or we have we'll have access uh from down closer to the station and we can access this uh what is essentially an access road now um from the station uh but the key thing to note there is that the uh you know the organic material and the the unsuitable material for train tracks um will be removed uh the the Ballance material that will be brought in is that you've seen it at the train if you ever go to the station there you know it's the 1 to 2 in uh uh you know clean gravel um ballast material very porous more porous than what is is there today um you know the intent is that you don't have fines in here that would migrate out you have good solid material so that's what will be brought in I don't know if you can tell from this image but where those tracks are now or where the proposed tracks will be is you know 6 8 Ines 12 Ines in some places so that organic material and the bad ballast will be scraped off maybe two three inches and new new um new processed ballast will be brought in so again this is a little bit past the um the mineral Street Bridge looking West out to Willow Street across that Western uh jurisdictional area uh the next photo is obviously closer to the station uh but what I did want to show in this one is again the tracks so were spun around looking the other direction so the new track is on the on the left side now uh goes in that area where there's already ballast and everything obviously those blocks will move that you know the steel rail that you see there again is that stockpiled rail but this is generally the Orange Lines generally about where the where the new tracks will go uh the thing to note here and this this signal will be further behind us but this was the best picture that I had that shows the um shows the mechanical boxes that are there and essentially will extend you know underground conduit it in in this ballast here to service that uh that signal and that'll have connection and Telemetry to the tracks to say that you know the gate is open or closed um that essentially is the project again it's it's adding uh this double track from about the station to not so much to Willow Street but to the wetlands in the west um it'll be all in that ballast as you see it there uh material will be scraped off unsuitable material be scraped off uh and disposed of outside a jurisdictional area most in most cases offsite what you're looking at here close to the station this ballast material probably is is will just be regraded and and used this is this is what the Ballance material that we'll place will look like um you know more clean like this obviously the Big Blocks won't be there um so that's the intent of the project uh the two jurisdictional areas uh we talked about um the work we talked about uh it I'll let um either Jeremy or uh or Jack Connor speak up if they have anything to add yeah thank you Bill for that and then just uh two notes so this location here uh we believe would be exempt under the Wetland protection act under 10.02 b2i for installation underground utilities um kind of like bu building what Bill said everything is within existing MBT right away and after these tracks are built um it would save the commuter from ring to Boston 15 minutes so currently it's a 45 minute train ride and that would drop to 30 minutes so you you said you have an exemption for the utilities is is is this an area where there's Wetland where I was looking at the plan our own town GIS I wasn't sure so this would be dur within buffer zone okay yeah so so I just switched back to the other plan so those white boxes you saw in that graphic in that picture if you remember that I can go back to that if not uh those were these and we're going to essentially extend an underground conduit uh probably two 4 in conduits within the ballast you know uh and to a uh to a signal that's you know some distance back uh depending on the site distances on on on the turn and everything coming around the corner so that would be yeah can you uh cite that again so I can write it down yep and it's also in the noi filing but it would be it's 10.02 b2i thank you yep I believe you might have been familiar we um believe it's in this area on it can correct me we had that big fiber optic project along the commuter rail it's a similar exemption we use for fiber optics uh for signaling and um upgrading our signal uh system throughout the the whole every line yeah Jeremy that that if you see that spool if you see my pointer right here that spool of wires there that actually goes down under theground I think it goes in that direction or it's on this side of the tracks um but that's I think that's what you're talking about um and it also makes it more resilient that we're putting it underground instead of the pulse so uh if if that's all from from Jeremy and if Jack doesn't have anything to add uh we're all here for questions again uh I'm consultant helping out the kolis and MBTA Jeremy is from the MBTA you can answer kind of the questions on the general like uh you know layout and everything of how the how the process is going uh from what they need uh for service um Jack Conners is uh project manager for construction and Anna is here basically uh with me for the environmental permitting aspect of things okay thank you uh Walter you want to start us off yes I was curious where the turn outs were where their controls are and does everything stay within your existing right away yes uh yeah yes to everything stays within the existing right of way um on the west if you remember the you know you have we have the river here 200 foot buffer here we're about 50 or 60 feet outside of that that's where the first turnout uh happens it goes out to the you know then goes to the east and then the other turn in I'm not sure exactly where it happens those those yellow the uh the white boxes were here but I think it happens back uh you know before we get to wurn Street um and uh yeah all of the uh all the Telemetry and the the signaling and the switches the switches are really tiny little lunchbox looking things they're on the ground almost buried in the ground at this point um that's all happens within the ballast that's there today basically and within the right away thank you anything else Walter no that's okay thanks anybody here I do um you say the purpose of this is so that a train car set can pull off to the second track and allow another train to go past um how long is a typical or maximum train cost are set compared to the length of track you're planning to build jery can you is it eight cars yeah that sounds right for this line yes is it is Jack Connor on it I think Jack would know the answer to that one yeah hi good evening good job Billy you learned all the terminology real quick I've been at it for a while but it's usually it's usually like a six or seven sometimes an eight car conest that they'll be tucking in there I can only speak to the engineering part of it and the track work and the Civil work as far as the operations on on exactly how the schedule is going to work and how long a train is going to uh dwell on the siding um that that really hasn't been finalized yet I think that was all tied into a promise of the 30 minute service that that the mbga is trying to establish for for uh reading residents um the only other issue that I had was the the um turnouts to crossovers are going to be um probably about 800 feet to the east of uh wubben Street they'll be right in that same area right now where the signal houses are and that's that's where most of the activity is going to happen uh the Crossovers the conduit installation uh the manholes we have to put in the power upgrade right about there Billy yes um and all the work is going to be um performed within the right of way um on mvta property Billy mentioned some of the organic material that will be removed from site uh and taken off um jurisdiction will stay on right of way property it'll be moved probably up towards what we call Wilmington Junction and spread out on the right of way um in non-jurisdictional uh areas so nothing no material will be removed off um off site and we'll have and we'll have erosion control barrier the work as well excuse me absolutely the reason I was asking that question is if the typical train car set is say half or a third as long as this track you're proposing could you make the track a little bit shorter and completely avoid the Wetland mirror Willow Street do you really need that much additional track to be able to pull your cars off to the side Yeah you mentioned that was about 560 feet so I'm just wondering if we could avoid impacting the Willow Street end of this track by just shortening it a little bit do you really need that much track well the the the intention was we were going to go all the way to Willow Street um and we've shortened it up by about 600 feet right now to stay 200 feet West towards Boston of the abona river so I'm not sure Billy exactly where that location is with the wetlands I mean I can only I can't speak for the MBTA but from an engineering point of view we probably could move that another couple of hundred feet to get out of the wet lands I I can't figure out how many we can get a back to you on that question at that something but I how long how What's the total length of a train set is it not 800 feet it's about for an 8 car consist would be about 850 fet and how long is this whole proposed turn back track 4500 yeah it's about 4,500 feet so it's like four times as much as you need for an eightc car section of track of cars well again I can't speak to the operations and for the MBTA but it excuse me it it allows for operational flexibility uh for storage of maybe some track equipment um maintenance equipment or happen there I mean that's so that area that's jurisdictional that has the thand bird sanctuary on one side and molets and Morgan Wetland complex on the other the storage issue the maintenance issue the the activity the the timing of the activity those are all would come into play in that area more so than down the track when you have you show some other resource areas but um you know the bird sanctuary has been left alone for many years I understand the track's been there but those are the reasons why it would be uh it's very helpful you look at it and to find out if you can pull it back to the edge of the Wetland well you know I I probably spoke of it pretty much early as far as maintenance equipment and I understand you don't want you know that that sort of activity going on there so you know we can eliminate eliminate that again I'm speaking from an engineering perspective for kolis the NBTA has the final say say on this yeah let that is something that I can um reach out to our operations and see why that decision was made um I don't want to say anything incorrect to why the total length was uh decided on so if that's something the commission feels strongly about that is something I can um get feedback um and get answers right and that's why we're going through it we just wanted to make sure that you understand that the commission you know well we we'll find out but now a couple of Commissioners have have spoke about this if they all agree that seems like a problematic spot to uh bring the line to and especially staging if you were going to Stage out there I mean and we put a condition on it that you couldn't do that then how it's hard to enforce so anyways be great to get your answer back at the at the next meeting appreciate that we definitely look at that but I I wanted to before we get off this topic um there is a this Bend in the line and I do know sight distances are a are are an issue and I do remember that as being one of the reasons because staging here or or stopping here stopping there um again I'm not the the uh you know the the big picture designer of these things but I do know site distances uh you know dictate dictated some of that decision but we can definitely get back to that the preview of the signal um so to to to put it in layman's terms so that the engineer can um properly view the signal so that he knows whether to go or whether to stop yeah yeah so I guess we don't know all the ins and outs of these things but it almost seems like move the signal so new signal I'm not sure I maybe I guess the bottom line is we have the question if you can go double check on that and you can answer to the exact question and maybe some context around it as far as visual distances and what have you so we have a better picture of why it is what it is yeah absolutely I can uh I can get that back to the commission thank you okay so my next question um are how long are the railroad ties going to be that go under the existing track and then under the new track next to it What's the total width going to be of that area um probably I mean we have the existing track we have 13 for track centers and so it'll probably be it'll probably an additional if you were to look at it it would probably be an additional 14 feet if you stood and looked right at the existing track it would probably extend about 14 feet so for a total of 30 feet from one side to the other yes okay um and um are there any um in your narrative on page three it says there are several dead or unhealthy trees within the right of way that need removal um how approximately where are those are they within our jurisdiction and um you know can you tell us tell us more about those trees so I believe those trees are more by the mineral mineral Street Bridge um they're outside of jurisdiction um it's kind of uh and I'm not sure if it's part if it ends up being part of this project or the ongoing um the ongoing uh vegetation management plan um yeah so part of the vegetation management plan for track safety we usually just do um spot trim of Limbs of trees but anytime we come across trees that could fell and impact our tracks they'll be removed and that's all under our vegetation maintenance plan um that reading's a part of um so the ones that are within our jurisdiction are what I'm concerned about so if I had more information about trees inside the Wetland buffer um I would love to have you get back with more specifics about those if they're all outside our jurisdiction then you don't have to talk to me about it yeah I believe I believe there there are no significant trees with within the jurisdiction we can definitely check on that but if you look at this is basically the jurisdiction on the western side um and we're not going we're not even going close to well we're going closer to the poles but not up to the poles uh and all of the trees are trimmed beyond the poles uh where where we go through the Wetland area so really the only vegetation in this in with within jurisdictional area is you know the scrub brush and you know maybe there's one of the one or two of these I don't even know what they are uh maybe burning bush maybe not um uh yeah the the the reference to the to the bigger trees where as we come around that corner by m Mechanic Street um there were some overhanging branches and and some leaning trees in that area which may be gone by now uh from the vegetation management stuff that is ongoing this time of year before winter comes I just wanted to had something you you were just saying you said there's no significant trees there be going to be pantic can tell us about any trees that you would take down to in in our jurisdictional area to go to Martha's Point yeah we will go back we will look into that um but and we'll get the get that's fine I just like to zero in on words like that but anyway yeah absolutely gotcha yeah you talked about removing the in opportunistic vegetation and the bad ballast is that going to be put onto a truck and taken right away or is any of that going to be piled up as you're doing the project it definitely will not be piled up and stock piled within jurisdictional area it will be put on either flat car on track or dump truck and brought out to I I forget where Jack said it would be it would go but there's another layout area outside of jurisdiction um off Locus here where it would go Jack do do you have an exact location on that again you said correct Billy it'll be along the right of way um like I said headed towards Wilmington on Railroad property on MBTA property in non-jurisdictional areas it'll just be spread out so that it doesn't have any impact on on anything yeah it won't be stockpiled on site I mean it's going to be removed they're going to put down new ballast and put in ties uh so it's going to go right on a truck and out of the way they they don't have room to move to move and stockpile and then move again then stockpile again and move again so it's it's on the truck gets out of there then they bring the new stuff in and that's common practice throughout our system where material we remove from the RightWay we reuse during the RightWay um it's an agreement we have with the EPA okay um I have a couple questions um so my first one could you bring up um not you ch um the view of the Eastern the eastern part of the work um there's some language in your introduction that's a little bit vague I just want to clarify some of that um so in your introduction down the near the end of the first paragraph it says a Vernal pool is indicated near the easterly Wetland area can you show us on your one of your Maps where that is yes close it is it says near near could mean a whole lot of things right where that dot is so it's it's it's associated with that Wetland there it shows up on it shows up on your guys's GIS and how far away is that um well the uh the the buffer zone here is is about 100 ft so 100 200 350 300 350 okay um and along the same lines that's exactly where it is great thank you in the same paragraph it says the project extends from about 200 feet east of the abona river river Could you um actually chuck could you bring up our G GIS and if um oh yeah could you stop Sharon so Chuck can bring something up oh yeah yeah sorry yeah that's fine thank you and Walter I do see your hand let me just finish this line of thought okay no 182 feet okay so my question has to do with where you measured from the abona river and um let me help guide Chuck so if you can find where the abona goes through um right here yeah okay so okay so there's the river and then then there's this finger this water body that extends to the southeast um so from where did you measure you measure from the river somewhere but you measure it from that point of water because that actually uh a pretty good distance so that might affect you at 200 feet so we measured from the uh you know when you the Culvert going underneath essentially the Culvert going underneath the River defines the you know the center line of the river and we went basically 200 feet uh from that um is that is that the Culvert up in that way yeah that's that's about where it is on my on my drawing there and that's where we put the 200t river front area but then we're another you know 50 or 60 feet outside of that you this is here right you go there yeah I know I thought I was just uh William was showing how he would do it and I think that we would say that the river comes down through here and then turns up and then goes through so this would probably be the closest point uh the 200 foot but I actually believe that's pretty much all mute because um it's about 200 F feet if we measure from oops themes um let's say the Wetland which is all the way back here you know this is where we're hoping to end the track at that point there okay I just wanted to add some weight to the shorten the track because I think the 200 feet measurement is off yeah but there but jurisdictionally I there was a screen up that William had um that showed and they talked about there was like 500 feet that was yeah something like that yeah from that red line back about 560 feet is where yeah yeah about 560 feet to that where he measured out the river 6 but yeah yeah okay so from where you do it it's still you know whatever but still pretty still pretty far okay yeah still a good lot okay um those are my only questions Chuck did you have anything uh yeah I had a few things uh I don't know if you want I'm gonna stop sharing you are you done with this yeah I'm gonna stop sharing just in case you want to put this up again Walter's having having a com to the me if I may I think one of the goals that we're looking for is to shorten this thing as short as possible my question would be what is the distance length from the transition from one track to the other from from end to end of the project if you're making the turnout the turnout what is the distance from a train goes from entering the turnout exiting the turnout and is now on the second track to a point where it clears it's 800 feet 800 feet okay and then you double that 1600 ft and then add in the distance of an eightc car train how long is that and is that practical yeah so we can I mean like Jack and this going to in but I can get those answers back to the reasoning to why we chose that distance I'm assuming it has something to do with line of sight or safety or there there's definitely a reason why our operations team asked that I don't think we have a answer to I understand the commission's role wants us to shorten it I can get an answer to why we chose that um that uh distance for where and exactly where the train would be um staying not moving until it got back into service um you know while I was waiting for the train to go by I can get all those answers but I'm not really sure if we can unless Jack can jump in I don't think we know exactly uh why that distance was chosen I think it had it had sight view it had preview to the signal and I think it also had something to do with operations okay that's fine we already um have asked you to come back to us with more information on that so we can take that up again at that point I guess uh Walter do want bring anything else up okay okay uh Chuck thanks uh so um do you anticipate uh leaving trains I'm going to call it staging trains on this new track would that be part of the standard operation um Jeremy or or Jack can you talk about exactly like how how this works you know how the car pulls off not staying overnight it's not an if it's no overnight then that's fine that's that's answer okay def yeah um essentially what it is is a train will pull into Reading Station offload its passengers and then that train will proceed onto the uh onto the the new track the turnback track and tuck in and at the same same time according to the schedule and these all have to be finalized excuse me I got a terrible cold and um a train at right about the same time will be will'll be moving towards Boston from around Andover um they'll pass the Train That's tucked into the siding they'll stop at Reading Station um make a make a passenger pick up and then they'll proceed into Boston and then once they they clear uh the Train That's tucked into the siding will come out onto the main line pull down to Reading Station and wait for its appropriate time to head back to Boston so the way I see it and again I'm I'm I'm I'm speaking for the way I understand it with kolis is that the the uh dwell time on the siding will be minimal thank you uh just to follow up question to the the turn back track you're entering on one side and you're exiting at the the other end is that how it works or do you back do the train back out NOP they come right back out it's it's what we call a crossover it's a switch that goes from the existing Mainline to the new turn back track so they just throw the switch and they tuck in clear the signal the switch is lined back and they just sit there and wait until they have author authorization to come back out and then they back just to clarify there's one intersection of the main track and the turnout track there not one at either end of the turnout track that's that's correct okay it's Illustrated one of both ends that's what I thought too yeah it's they're saying it's Illustrated differently that need to be checked sure that was never the intention we were the original plans were excuse me that to to end the track stubbed right at wuben street so um okay is that something else you can look into and okay so it's not Illustrated coming back in at wurn street it's only Illustrated in the middle of our Wetland near the a river is the one connection no I'm sorry yeah that's how the the plan is that's how the plan is is shown it just dead ends at wber Street obviously they'll be like the it it dead ends at wuben street but it also dead ends at you know it was proposed at at Willow Street it's a it's just it's it the the entrance into the turnout track the turnaround track is only at the area that we described as the control area the in loock yeah can you a double ended sting you have a second there well want me to share again yeah if you could um okay you guys see that yeah so I'll pull away the so this is the plan that's on file so we're at we're at wubber Street and we just show a dead ending there at wubben Street and then let put back my marker and then as we come back up you know it's it has this yeah it has the turnout that's where that's where we're talking you know having a turnout there that will not be a turnout that is that is just going to be a dead ended track and I I apologize Billy if that's oh okay so the dead ends there and then the turnout is somewhere down at the right the St opposite you you had the signal house um shown on on the previous plan towards wuben Street that's where the crossover and the new interlocking and the conduit will will be installed right there okay okay so that looks like near Vine Street yes yeah okay so we'll correct that okay all right uh we'll get a correction on that um so my next question is uh I did notice that the ballot underneath the existing tracks was higher than where you're proposing the new track will you bring everything up level yes yes okay when you do that when you add that much material do you anticipate it rolling down the sides we'll have erosion control barriers all throughout this area where tracks being uh in materials being brought in you can you can guarantee that we're not going to get like like Stone rolling down and like kind of encroaching further into so overflow of the barrier which we see all the time all right so you'll put that in um yeah we'll have erosion controls the whole way down H silt fence all the way to prevent any sedimentation into the Wetland yeah I think the point there is just to be sure that um any material that does slide down roll down isn't enough to overcome the barrier which we see so the barrier needs to be sufficient to hold fair amount of material rolling down the hill yeah so several years back when the conservation this commission uh reviewed the um operation maintenance plan they requested that the area between the thalen bird sanctuary and the mettams and Morgan area uh you would not use herbicides to um spray down the tracks in that area is is that still your understanding yeah and for this project you won't be doing that either correct I don't think we spray outside of our tracks in the in the vegetation maintenance plan is that correct we we came across the delineation markers out there where that designate a no spray area okay still designated that way yeah so it's only anything that' be removed which you know we're not but hypothetically would all be mechanical there's no spraying okay that that's what I have um anybody from the room can you come up to the podium and tell us uh who you are good evening my name is Jim Riley from 87 Hancock Street uh I my house borders conservation land Linea the alen land and also borders propos changes here I've Liv Liv in Hancock Street all my life I was in this area when they used to have locomotives and the old uh rain station used to have a turnaround down near the depot that changed a long time ago I have major concerns and chak has been very helpful I wrote a quick note to him my area of concern I'm going to raise my concern because of different issues have been brought up here today that I think make some difference my area of concern is that I've seen diesel trains sit idle in my own backyard right now never mind a turnaround they pollute the diesel fumes come all through my yard if you want to walk the track you can find leaks on the ground it's just the nature of diesels I believe that if this is needed and the town of must adhere to it because of a quote another MBTA law I believe that such storage line and a turn back track should be down behind the depot down behind the DPW Stop and Shop Market Basket the reason being is that's a commercial area not a residential area where this is being proposed right now along Vine Street is all private homes as well as down by the Condominiums and apartments the people own I believe after hearing what they're saying the 4500 ft is not needed if the 4500 ft is needed to store maintenance equipment that's not in the proposal none of is in the proposal all he was talking about is a turnback dragon I agree with Martha if the size of the train one train per every few hours needs to be stored there 800 to 1,000 ft is all you need not 4500 ft I would like to recommend first of all I oppose this I know there's a law and I can't change the law but I can oppose it I believe if you're gonna put something like this in it needs to go down behind the DPW stop and Sho in that area uh William can you stop sharing the screen oh yeah sure and again just so people can see what we're talking about here y okay so here we are so this is the area you know generally this is our Industrial Area here it's past as Street past 28 uh you're in you're in that area there so I guess the question is you know how how do you choose this location uh instead of a commercial area why was the residential area Chosen and I if you don't have that answer you can just get it at the next meeting but um why it wasn't why that era wasn't chosen yeah because it is you know it is I mean the DPW is not going to complain um I mean there's more Wetland I I I understand that um but let me just take a quick measurement too there already two tracks in that area near New Crossing Road could those tracks be used for this purpose or are they actively used for something else may they already have it there yeah it shows on the line two tracks question it joins together at Ash street so you've already got that functionality in my understanding that's two different lines that come in so kind of going where um Jack was talking about line from Andover would come in or the reading would tuck and then it would go back to the station so I'm pretty sure that's why we have those two tracks because they Branch out to two different lines is that correct Jack well first of all the just from an operational point of view what what the goal is trying to um what we're trying to achieve is a efficient timely um 30 minute service from Reading Station which means in order to do that a train pulls into Reading Station and then to be efficient they clear out of the way to let another train go in towards Boston to to pull into Reading Station go back through two Crossings over Washington Street Main Street Ash Street and then find a place to tuck in I think because of the um this the signal requirements and the timing I think that would turn into a um not as an efficient operation but that's that's I think is was the primary reason why um it was decided to go on the other other side of wben street but again MBTA operations would have to back okay so so let's agree that there's not a definitive answer to that particular question so if you could um you know find that out for us and give back to us for the next meeting that would be helpful too y absolutely thank you anything else you want to say again this is Jim Riley sorry one other concern I have it was raised briefly and it touched a sour spot where you're talking about leaving maintenance equipment sitting on this turn back track um I I think that will not be the practice that was that was me just thinking real quick of an you know easy way to justify the extension of the track I understand the the the reasoning there so I'd like to withdraw that statement I know that that that's not really gonna gonna happen that will also be that will also be in my response to the commission I'll address that as well and I would think that we would have that as a condition just to be assure it's in writing that it wouldn't be maintenance equipment it would just be shortterm right yeah yeah it would not be a storage area yep then again I appreciate you answer questions but moth brought up a point if the train is and people have said is roughly 800 feet long I don't understand why it's going to go 4,500 feet yeah absolutely we will get those answers I'm sure our operations it's due to some type of due to regulations and due to safety but those are all things I will address in my response uh to the commission and U make sure that you also get a copy of those as well and again I'm asking we're verbally talking about something but I think it's really important to me maybe some of these other people that why can't it be put down behind the DP okay Jim you made that point I appreciate it's us a chance thank you anybody else have to have anything they want to say question please and just introduce who you are and what have you so I'm Patrick Sheron 132 middle sex what's the timeline for all this yeah so right now there's a long lead time on supplies so um you know once we clear the environmental permitting it's most likely a springtime operation uh work that would begin outside of jurisdiction there could be some early action work but uh right now the bulk of it is I was told that's targeted around Springtime and then when would it begin being in use because the construction is going to take months right yeah scheduled change the the scheduled changes are usually around May and November so I don't know but I'm guessing that maybe in November I'm not sure but we can also try to get that answer right Jeremy yeah I can get what yeah absolutely does anybody else wants to say anything no um so excuse me out in TV lands yes um is there anybody out on Zoom who wants to say anything please go to reactions and hit the uh raiseed hand function and somebody here will notice it I also just make one quick note just for the um the uh resident the first resident speaking uh does he had a brief comment when you go out there and and walk the tracks you can see I just recommend that uh if anyone please don't go out on the track just to safety um we do have you know a lot of active trains there so if there is something that there's areas you do want to see uh please reach out to the MBTA prior to and I will point out that um Chuck has gone through that certification process so aware there is thank you have to do before you walk so trust me we're not going out there okay it's a safety concern that you know we take safety very very seriously yeah uh so let let me just add to that we um so we would need to get to a point where we could do our uh or I could do my job and go out there I'm assuming that I wouldn't reach out to MBTA I would have some sort of contact either within this group a wetland person or something like that and I would arrange to meet uh you know during the project just to make sure everything is in compliance um the certification that Brian talked about I got five years ago so it's it's not valid um but uh we we've been out before um with uh the company of someone one from you know kis or uh the MBTA so I'm not sure if that's it but if if I have to take a course then then I then I fast yeah absolutely and we can also in one of your conditions you can also put in a pre-construction meeting too you can verify that all Ro controls are set in place before we break ground as well anyone that wants to take take a walk out there uh we can through certain accommodations just to take a brief walk um we can we can accommodate you to do a quick a quick site visit yeah that's great thank you you definitely don't want to damage your trains okay um so at this point it's pretty clear that we will need a continuation and you folks okay with that I assume yeah I think I think we're good with that have some some answers to get you guys so that'll give us some time okay just take notes um but just in case I will there be a list sent over to us I just want to make sure I didn't miss anything I I actually we go over that right now we'll do a summarization of the things we've asked for perfect having your list okay well no hold on I uh so our next meeting is January 9th and uh there's a couple of things you can do so we'll do a list here but these uh these meetings are recorded on YouTube and so they'll be up on YouTube pretty quickly and that's at rctv Studios if you wanted to listen to it a second time uh and verify the list so we wanted information on why the length of it uh we wanted information on why the choice of that location versus in the industrial area of reading um and that's the DP you referenced that's the DPW location DP as Street and Walker Brook Drive and we'd like uh any information you have on any trees in our jurisdiction that may be affected um verify there's no oh yeah what about the ball concern about erosion of the ballast that they have to add um no stockpiling in the jurisdictional area I think just verify those um confirm no trains will be parked overnight on those tracks that's that's confirmed and also no maintenance equipment just Rolling Stock if that's a real word sound sounds good okay and then I also have um to update the plans to show that both dead ends on each side yeah I'll accurately show where the turnout is yeah great I think that's the list having said that can I have a motion to continue to January 9th no 8th he said ninth but I checked it on my phone I thought it was the eth please give a motion I move to continue this hearing to January 8th second Walter tabbits in favor in favor Marth Moore in favor Tim Michelle in favor Brian B in favor okay thank you thank you thank you thank you guys see you a couple weeks so uh just so people understand when we get the information within a few days we post it on our website so the conservation division page it's under um project by year and um you can just go there and see what's updated but also don't um hesitate to give me a call and I can either direct you to that website or I can send it to you or you can come down and pick it up and just to make it a little bit more clear project by year and you look for zero Vine Street because that's the name of the project on the website I Just Want to Thank You L yeah all right thank you for coming down and uh having those good questions appreciate it everyone thanks everybody everything I okay next time probably yeah it's the way right Jim thanks thank you very much all had some good questions I didn't even write them down wasn't thinking thank you don't say anything more to it okay have a good night all good night have a good CHR so let's uh let's get uh Anette Lane okay so let's um jump to one of the items from the discussion items it's item 12 zero and net Lane just uh I think you're all aware of the situation there was a project there was some damage to frees there also was some problems with weapon there and some wood wood chips that were inadvertently put in there so having said that um you want to get up and give us an update it's GNA come right up here so receive this paperwork uh I sent it out to the commission we've had it on the website for a couple of weeks it talks about Lucas environmental had did a site visit he done did the site visit um on November 14th and the pictures show the area of where we're concerned you can see that the retaining wall is in here and here and we're below the fence in in this area here and this is the area where wood chips would be removed or were removed this was uh an area where when they took the trees down they stockpiled all the wood chips and by just moving back and forth and dumping the wood chips on top of them it kind of um messed up all the the undergrowth so I'm not sure if anyone on the commission read this letter um but it seems to me that they've made some recommendations and we just want to find out um when the recommendations will happen and I and maybe you can give us a project update also because I know a lot of Works happened and people are wondering what's going on with uh kind of like how you were working quickly and now it's kind of like stopped excuse me I got all could you just introduce for the record PC the owner of zahl um we got all the underground utilities all the work done we built the boardwalk first that was the first thing that we did um once we got the lot approved and I understand there were a lot of of concerns but one of the main concerns was in a butter that wasn't in a butter and a butter is a somebody who buts the land correct but we were having pictures taken of us they were reporting to you Chuck correct right yeah harassment is what I think it's we did everything right um the team that I had between the engineers and attorneys there's over a hundred years experience with everybody they're well more than qualified we didn't do anything wrong everything was done correctly the engineers came out from the town uh commented on how well everything was built and you know my thing was just to get all the utilities and wall done um before the winter there's no rush on this on my end I bought this in 1999 with you know hopes to my kids were young so I've been sitting on it there's no rush so so basically if residents were asking we could say there is no problem it's not of their business we just right it's my it's it's my lot it's not their lot so when do you think you would complete it or get back to it show progress that people can see right when when do you think that would be spring everything's germinated um so so the other question Chuck asked was having to do with the recommendations in that letter yes um in in the spring right now it's all germinated which was good just so nothing would erode so everything was that was my we had a window to plant and we did so right but I mean so in there they talk about a little bit different mix yeah and so you would do that in the spring yes yeah I use conservation mix they recommended Yeah a different mix that was missing a few seeds my that's my fault you know I just threw down conservation mix which I asked people who do this for a living what what to do I that's my fault so they didn't say it was bad they just said this thing is better this this is what is recommended right so we use conservation mix you have it what Circle back on uh yeah so I I did ask you when when I first saw the boardwalk I said that first bit and there's the time frame for doing that oh you made a different that's that's done okay I had seen it sorry it's a beautiful Boardwalk uh yeah the boardwalk's nice and I was just concerned about the ramp because it was a little steep and I'd been out there many times and it wasn't done but now I'm telling it's done which is great um the wheelchair has to get up there now good I appreciate that um so we at our last meeting I was concerned because we had our letter from um Iron Tree and noted how the trees will uh what happened and how the trees will be looked at and monitored and how they how they were um going to be uh not fixed but put the patch on patched and has that happened not yet not yet and so we were satisfied with that eval and we didn't have this one so I second so you said not yet do you have an idea when that's going to be done in the spring so yeah Springtime for spring time ah yeah yeah unless we get a one day coming up and then we can do it I'm trying to remember if that letter said anything about any urgency covering up the exposed well three I can tell you every morning I come by off of um Walkers Brook to Village is that turn Village Street it's that John Street it's a tight turn and if you look at that tree it's been hidden six seven times dur in ice ice stores and that's still doing pretty good doing really good that tree is not within our jurisdiction though still not recommended that people hit trees no I'm sure those were accidents ODS were accidents there was 2000 300 so so my question was do you think there's any negative aspect of waiting till spring to put that patch on oh we'll do it yeah definitely I know but would it make sense to do it sooner so it's protected during the until spring yeah we could yeah soon as we get a warm you know phly warm I think Bobby said somewhat you know 4550 the what I heard from um um from the arborist Moses was that he was he said well I'll order a case of that stuff right away and that was months ago and so I would have I would have thought that it would have been on already but uh yeah and that's why I want look at I I'm not an arborist I don't know that having that exposed for a few more months is bad seems a good idea to get the Band-Aid on yeah and by the way it was over 45 today so in the forign r yeah that's that's what we did up at I think it's yeah in the rain up at Mata oh we W could you uh rain day instead of could you just reach out to uh Bob Moses and just if he says Spring's fine just you know send me that email that would be great um and then so moving on we didn't have this letter from um Lucas environmental and so that was kind of what we talked about and how to get this going and it wasn't that we didn't think uh things would grow back again but it was a it was something that we didn't have the expertise to know about so now we have this evaluation which basically says you know there wasn't any long-term damage there was seed put out is a little bit more recommended these are in place we have a plan so I feel satisfied again that we're that we have a plan we can point to it and and we've gotten some input from some experts uh as far as what's happening what's not happening I mean in all honesty as long as the erosion controls in place and doesn't erode um and there's no trash on the site and there's not problems like that there's three years with your order of conditions but but you can't ask for you can ask for an extension but the Commission in the past has um asked the applicant why you why it's not finished and so you might think about that because if it's just hey I didn't have any time they might not extend and then you would just get a notice of you'd have to get a notice of attend in when you wanted to move forward but three years is a long way off I mean it's yeah have two years left but I just wanted to give you that warning so it's not automatic right okay thank you yeah so I think we're all good here uh I'm not sure I know I can't go ahead keep on talking that's what you do no I'm fine too I would like to see the treatment done mostly I guess what they say in abundance of caution so other than that anybody else have any questions or anything thank you for coming yeah thanks yeah thanks Peter thanks yeah youo all right okay back on track um M Rivers yeah okay so 445 Pearl Street I I do have to I didn't know uh petc B was going to show up I thought that I was like hey do you have that letter and he's like oh I forgot to send it to you so yeah should have said it was really not too much after receiving the letter that we needed to worry about um okay so we have um we have an enforcement yeah we don't have any violation not oh so so here's the thing let me bring you up to date so he was wanted to reach out he said I can't make this meeting that's why he's not here tonight he's traveling this is 44544 yeah so we're talking about 444 Pearl Street um and um oops didn't want to do that 44 Pearl Street uh had a plan to do kind of like a v-shaped uh Bank on either side of this stream that you can see and then vegetate it with cor fasheen logs at the B at the base coconut husk logs that will be anchored into the into the bed the stream what we got was a retaining wall on one side um a retaining wall on one side and um yes there was about a six foot retaining wall that looked like this one but um this retaining wall runs from one end of the project to the other end of the project so I sent Michael Rivers a second or third or fourth enforcement order I asked him to stop all activity except for can maintain the erosion control and come to this meeting then he called me a couple days later when he received it and we talked it over he thought it would be best if he met you guys out there and um I'll look for the email I can do that here and uh he's uh wanted to have an opportunity to to tell you during the co of the project why he made the decisions he made I felt like that was be best on site so that's why he's not here and I do think that the site visit should be set up and then we would probably get back to this in January no so as an update after our other site visits on Monday Marthur and I stop stopped by hoping he would be there he wasn't we asked the people who were there to ask him to get a hold of you to pick a daytime that we could hopefully go back out and listen to so basically I think it's on him to contact you or you guys to figure out a day and then see if we can make whatever day he thinks he could all right so he says hi Chuck just following up on last Tuesday's phone call regarding letter and not be in town for that mid Wednesday meeting uh I would be on January 2nd or January 3rd in the afternoon around 2 pm so he's suggesting January 2nd or 3rd around 2m in the afternoon also after 3:00 on 12:30 works for me please let me know if this works for you all please convey this to the committee I apologize for not being able to attend the meeting um blah blah blah so it looks like we have three dates um I can do January 3rd I cannot do Jan jary 2 okay and what time did he say on the 3rd I know 2 was 12:30 January 3rd works in the afternoon after 2 pm did you do that's W Wednesday I believe third Friday Friday or Friday I meant Friday you do you want to be there for that well I know it's a violation I know it's not what the plan said but we're at this point where Conservation Commission has a lot of latitude to uh approve you know it's it says whatever it says in the book but when it gets down to it you think this is a violation we're going to move forward with that if you think that there's some accommodation that needed to be made and you believe what he said then that happen so it's not so important that I'm there it's more important that you're there and you understand because you're going to make him the final decision on whether this is truly a violation or not so I would encourage everyone who can make it to go if not you will have to have a good set of pictures and site visit notes so we're talking Friday Friday really is there any is there any time on a Friday the 3 that you could make it in the afternoon after two I mean does later in the day give you a shot at making it yeah I think that later maybe four o what about you my daughter was flying to Italy that day like think I'm out yeah but you're not flying to Italy I'm GNA take her there okay um is it what date is this janary Frid January 3r Frid I can do the second I can't do the third Marthur you can't do the second I could do the second if it was 2:00 but not if it was 2:30 or 3 um I'd rather not do the second at all but right got your off that's fine like said happens I can make it I think Friday is better but Friday yeah if you do Friday so Friday at 4 but I think you can't make you having a meeting next Friday is fine yeah okay so Friday no the special meeting talk how dark it will be o00 know when everyone's ready matter that was is 2:00 better because I'm home on Friday so I live close by I could he said after fine that's fine yeah I'll just be coming back that night that's only for C okay so Chuck we've settled on I do the third if I can try to make an Eng the third at 2:30 the third at 2:30 we're going to four4 five correct Walter can I come yeah are you available okay I wasn't sure if I was involved or not are you GNA have are you gonna have yet another new car at that point I at 230 car available for the conservation office I mean that's I need something to haul around all that a beautiful blue electric Mustang really you got an electric EV Mustang yeah I traded in my red one I didn't recognize him when we got to the site visit because it was the wrong car I was looking for a red car and this blue car showed up sort of like Chuck I didn't recognize his truck for the first couple of times okay that's enough CH chat thank you very much got two things on the next item which is the DPW no uh new work no uh new work without a permit at stab you guys looked at that we also have the other thing about proceeding with the work for the containers and the garbage um and then do an after the fact permit in January so let's do the first one first which is the um dog watering station at the end of sh have that we looked at in the site visit on Monday you don't want to say the $5,000 no I not GNA pile on no you're not g so the issue is that this was installed without a permit U and so we need to decide what to do about that uh We've made some decisions already uh one of the decision was when they when they do come to us for those containers um that permit is an RDA bran made the decision that that will not be allowed to be added to that RDA so separ to be a separate permit for and what ended up happening is they went out and ran a line or connected to a line that was near that proximity was a hydrant hydrant right 5et from without any permission it was just done and then when we found out about that because they brought it to us um we said well we should probably need a need a permit let's just do that and then Chris Cole the director of the DPW in our monthly meetings as I remember just he told us one maybe two times they at least told us that um he intended to get a permit before they moved forward um but he just didn't have time uh when we asked about it and then next we hear it was installed uh again without a permit without continuing the other permit so completely uh done with you know you miscommunications and with no permits the other thing to point out though is that this is reading town government so it's another part of us which is something to consider why we treat them as the same right to a great extent well I would I would remind you that uh no one should have uh any special treatment uh with the wetlands protection act and um okay so I think you would want to understand that there's you know more reasons than just a WPA a lot of people in town want to make sure no favors are given so what are what are our options we could permit it after the fact oh yeah we could make them tear it up and well gonna work for the options we could make them take it out that's a decision you would make if they have a permit you could send them a violation notice you could have some conditions and have some actions in that violation notice an enforcement order violation notice one of the same you can have some actions that you want you have to go to the Conservation Commission at their next meeting you have to submit a plan by a certain date you need to install a rosion control you cannot use it ceas assist blah blah blah that would be violent or you could tell them they need to file a permit which one I'm not sure possibly an RDA and we would just wait for that to come in but also let them know that since it's not permitted then it shouldn't be turned on which will be easy to do since it's winter time and we're concerned about the freezing so those as I see a two options any other options have Brian I'm thinking through the ramifications has it been turned on you know I didn't try it the other day I I let Michael uh cman know that you I informed me that it should not be turned so I'm not sure if it's turned on or not but at least the DPW knows yeah yeah I'm just thinking through the ramifications of PR around Conservation Commission um being thrown under the bus for taking away that water station but I think it is the appropriate thing to do is to have it not be used till there's some legitimate process around it um I do like the I always like the idea of a violation notice um enforcement order I think would be good I don't know what conditions there would be we did notice that there's bare soil around it there's no protection if if and when the water overflows the small basins um and the weapons are right there so think nothing is not an option put it that way so I would I I would suggest we do the enforcement order with conditions and leave it at do not turn it on as you said that's easy that's I agree with that I was concerned about the bare soil around the base of the thing and I think it's likely to even if the grass is planted there's likely to be um foot traffic no wear it down wearing down the grass so we want to think about what would keep it from getting dug and eroded some more well there's a ton of possible answers there right yeah but they should DPW should come to us with a suggestion that we don't design it somebody else does and we approve or not I did I will say I didn't see any evidence of where they dug the line I don't know if that means it did a long time ago and the evidence maybe it's right there pretty close I'm not sure that connction down full Fe I would um but they still would have had that yeah but they might have went in but still has still 4 still broken the surface though yeah I didn't see any evidence of that so that's my information I don't think I I want you to reconsider enforcement order I think that um it's in it's off if it's an enforcement order I I would say you know don't you could justify it h why would you do an enforcement may do it this way why would it be an enforcement order instead of an RDA I think we have a problem where certain organizations uh overstep the bounds constantly and I think by saying okay submit an RDA and then we'll bless it and you go head and doing it didn't cost you anything so I think that if we um make a point of of that we do take it seriously in this case it's fairly benign it's a water station but it's fairly benign but there there have been other things where um you know they've just done things right okay what are the conditions uh well do we have a vote and then we could talk about conditions first of all agree we would need a motion on whether it's going to be a violation or enforcement or that's kind of where we are isn't that the same thing uh it's different levels are you you're saying an enforcement order I am yeah is that a higher level or a lower level than violation higher strictor so enforcement order you're um you're telling them what to do so you'll say these are the steps we want you to follow and they're they're obligated to do that uh a permit is allowing them to do it so it's up to them whether they do it or not so there's no choice when we send an enforcement and what's a violation violation is just noting that that's happened to get the conversation going it's like saying we send that to people the Y yeah this first very first step yeah it doesn't it it's a very first step to let them know what's going on and we would have done that when the original you know with a homeowner we would have done that when the original line was put in place with the DPW because we have a monthly meeting we told them at the monthly meeting so they got the word Okay so we've already hit the fation level and they did it without any permit so then enforcement order would be the next step I mean in my mind if you're going to have rules and regulations you have to enforce it right and yes there are places we can be lenient and what have you but as I said this is an organization that probably needs to be rained in a bit but you need them for things too so doing this yes probably doesn't help you get anything that you want if you're trying to work together to a point you know I guess in a way but you know this this is so you know we're supposed to enforce the wetlands protection act with blinders on and we don't see you know the town or individual people or someone who um you know someone any different than anyone else as the wet L protection act doesn't say this but they don't classify their uh Wetlands there's no A+ Wetland and there's no F Wetland so more is allowed they're all topnotch whether it's not whether it is or not and that's where the Conservation Commission comes in and puts their knowledge into it but if this you know you are the elected body I am the administrator Brian is making the decision that's been seconded it's not that they're working with me it's they're not choosing to work with the Conservation Commission uh and I had already said that I feel like maybe it's not where we want to go at this point but I I guess I was convinced that you seemed like you really you really thought this was the only way to go move forward I mean I think you made that pretty clear I could be convinced otherwise that somebody had a good reason what you said I I did consider that because you do need them to to facilitate a lot of the things that you do so that's true but I don't think we should yeah but you can't make the decision on that we couldn't make a decision on that I I don't I wouldn't want that's almost seems like you know it's not fair or ethical to treat them differently than anyone else you know like oh well can you well in fact in the state in the state state ethics we can't do it because quit broke World maybe not direct but but doing a violation because you said it was kind of brought up in the monthly meeting but if it's set as a violation then do they come to this meeting to discuss their what is there any Merit in doing you could ask them to do that in a violation notice they're not obligated they could ignore it they can't ignore an which again is I think we want to get their attention then can a violation have a stipulated time period to say that if you don't come by next meeting then it be comes an end en forcement that be a I like that idea violation and get per and corrective action for the soil yeah violation notice now and then if they don't respond to that then invite them then do an enforc then they've given you no choice so what would what what would you want to see besides a date what would you want to see them do by that date give us a plan how they're going to avoid um the soil around the water station getting eroded and get the permit anything else is that the only concern so you can't have them do work under a violation notice so an enforcement order would allow that or you know RDA or notice of intent but you couldn't like list some things off because they don't have a real permit so so we would ask them to apply for a permit to put it in and yeah typically you would ask them to come in the commission with a violation notice State what the problem is what the immediate actions are and I wouldn't ask for a plan because it's more likely than not you're going to say we want you to return in the second meeting or the first meeting in February with a with unnotice of intent or an RDA that's after the fact I mean they could get it all done by April that's when they want to use it basically you know it's not they could or the commission could say take it out because it's always going to alter the resource area we didn't have an opportunity to to look at that I mean you know the Town Forest has a lot of dogs that if they're just like hovering around that area yeah because some of them are going to leave things behind and some people won't pick it up some dogs will wander a bit and actually be in that Wetland I I you know does it make it worse by tearing it up um temporary alteration I would think yeah so in my mind the biggest concern I have with that is it was placed for convenient um it's close to the the hydrate but that doesn't mean it's a good place Wetland you know so we certainly would have talked about was there a better a placement that was farther away um and that would have meant they would have to run a longer line but it would have protected the wetlands which actually is our function it's not our function to you know minimize the length of the pipe on the ground and I think there was a discussion about that like a year or two ago of they wanted to put this in and where would we put it idea was first raised yeah yeah so well in fact there was conversation about it putting it smack dab in the middle of the uh of the field where the water treatment used to be that would have been a long pipe run yeah but it was discussed you know so that's that's yes on the one hand they did it without asking after we had said don't do that and the second is I don't think the placement is good so it not only it's within the Wetland protection uh like a buff is on like water and wetlands and trees and vegetation and you know amphibians and things like that well in water and frogs and things like that but it's also an amphibian habitat so it's priority habitat of rare species and estimated habitat of rare Wildlife so it's double it's not in that area it's next to it or near it very close certainly it's kind of funny how they draw the lines because I would say no amphibians are going to be saying oh well you can't go over here they're going to use that field that's a nice grassy area oh and it's a structure within the the no structure Zone yeah it's yet another reason why it certainly would have been something we would have had a lot of conversation about it wouldn't have been that's easy go ahead and do it so that's that's my concern well it sounds like the least steps to make the progress in the right direction would be an enforcement order but before we vote I do want you to know that I talked to Michael kesman who said he had no problem filing whatever the commission wants to take care of this and to make it legal now he doesn't know that you would consider removing it and you know but he didn't mind if it was a notice of intent if it was an RDA and what he what he had to do so uh he was also the person I talked to when I said you know so supped to stay off yeah you know I mean I just can't think of what argument there would be to overcome how close it is to sensitive Wetlands I I don't know what that answer would be okay well it's 10:15 and we should go for another hour on this yeah well you know I get it I mean they're all right they're helping out here's a compromise well let's take the violation path okay but um it should be a notice for 10 if we do an RDA I I'm gonna be pushing for it to be a positive determination so we might as well cut right to the Chase and say notice of intent and if Mike's looking for any information you can tell them some of the things that we're concerned about the placement of that there and that way at least gives them a heads up that it's not just going to be smooth sale yeah your your obligation your is for the wetlands right and if it's it's not just the activity to install it because that's done it's the activity that will happen continuing and from now on and I'm just you know we we did a dog park in Arlington and we there's trees in it of course and old trees and the dogs you know like dogs are crazy right right they ran around the trees and it was like they killed all the grass and all and they dug it was like almost like a channel you know around this tree and it exposed all the roots you remember the house we we went to on summer summer a where they had the back along the fence where the dogs went back and forth back and they just worn a a trail yeah and they put a they put a bench in front of the tree someone had much expense and so the the dog just moved out and then they were going around remember Forest you can be dogs off leash and I will tell you from lots of experience dogs tend to go early in the walk and when you're coming down stav that's early in the walk not more people now are going in and lot five and the other end but when they go down stro and they haven't gone already they go when they get to the field just go there in February when the snow melts and see it for yourself all right so yeah so I don't know what the vote is but you also have this other project going on right there yeah so let's let's take care of this one first all right so I'm going to make a motion that we uh give them an enforcement um no I go back I go back I'm G say violation violation telling them uh they have to submit an noi by our second meeting in January which is the 22nd okay that's that's my motion I second that motion I'm gonna add add something to it we do you well I'm GNA ask you do you want them to have that resource area evaluated so we understand exactly what we're trying to protect it's a good idea line yeah we're are we G to rely on the gis I think that area is getting wetter and wetter it used to be you could walk down Stout have always and not be in the water now it's a given at certain parts of the year you better bring your wait your waiter well not your waiters but just little boot because there's going to be water down there and then that freezes and it happens every winter now not for long because winter's not as long but the water is higher okay so the second meeting in 22nd January is 22nd that sounds familiar and uh okay okay now uh the second item there U we didn't vote oh you moved I seconded Walter start us off can you repeat the motion then please because sounds like a motion to give them a violation notice telling them to uh start the noi process don't turn it on don't turn it on don't do any more work um install control I think those are all fine ideas yes okay and to submit an noi by u a second meeting in January the 2 how does that sound Walter then there was some kind of evaluation of the Wetland yeah so I'm going to ask them to uh I get that down uh submit a notice of intent and a wetland delineation for the motion or is those conditions for the motion you can say them in the motion yeah okay I I I just thought that would be part of the noi process but yeah might as well give them advanced notice to be looking for that and so put it in the motion so as amended okay anybody want if I can vote Walter taltz in favor in favor Mar Mo in favor to in favor Brian B in favor okay second item there um we went on the site visit we looked to the right of the first brick building on the parking lot there at the end of uh stav uh that's the area that DPW would like to um turn into a repair and Depot if you will for the trash barrels that town is going to be using starting in April uh they chose it over other places because there's electricity in that uh small building they want to turn it turn it into a a workstation um and they want to place two containers outside the building to the right has a grassing area behind the fence I forget they're doing two40 Footers right that's what they said 2 40 Footers um they want to do it there and that'll be for storage of barrels um before that passed out to residents of Resident has one that break the wheels come off gets by a car or whatever they can bring it there to get repaired or perhaps a replacement um so the issues are same as the water F actually actually maybe even a little bit worse yeah because that means you're going to have some car traffic coming down there for DPW Personnel um to work on the workstation and I don't know are they going to have residents come there to pick up a barrel or drop off one for repair would that be done by Town trucks I don't know but that's a question the reason that's important because that is uh in a fibian area and so particularly some parts of the year they migrate around there and that's been something we've said in the past we don't want cars going there that was an alternative place for end up the parking lot lot five that was a place that was considered and our concern was traffic going down that road with the amphibians there traffic destruction proximity of the wetlands you know uh all the above yeah impervious imperviousness which is those containers and they put the containers on they poured them on a pad yeah gravel I think they said yeah they said gravel it's not going to pour a pad gra and when we were on the site visit we eyeballed the distance and we concerned that a 40 foot 40 foot is going to come real close yeah there are other options for those parking well the parking areas with have been a good one but the the problem is here is he missed the deadline this Michael cman um and and I was trying to get a hold of them I sent a couple emails I even sent an email to Chris Cole who was preparing for a meeting and he didn't get to the email until a couple days later and it was truly too late at that point to do anything couldn't put it in the paper because our jurisdictional time frames had already passed wouldn't have been able to notify the abutters but then I found out when Mike got back that he did notify the abutters I guess there were only three but I didn't know that because I asked him to review the legal notice and let me know if he approved it so I could sent it to the newspaper I think he just printed it and sent it out without getting back to me so it was a bunch of mistakes again and um it couldn't get on to this meeting and uh when I I talked to Chris Cole I felt like putting it on this meeting but that's when I realized that we didn't have time to have it in the newspaper um so the project is all about the containers that the town is getting and so they're getting whatever 26,000 of them or something like that I don't know what the actual number is but they're assembling them over on Sim way and they ordered a couple extras just in case things broke and this is the area where they're going to store the extra ones into containers and they're going to actually um save parts from them I guess and they'll be repairing some and parts will happen as more and more get broken and so I guess there's some repairing that's going to happen there too so it's a change of use it's more impervious surface even though underneath is gravel gravel yeah um and it's more activity and so again we want to be concerned about is it likely to alter the buffer zone those would be the two questions that we would ask so in three and n two are is the work within our jurisdiction and is it likely to alter the resource area that's one of them and three is the work within our jurisdiction yes is it likely alter the buffer zone and so that's what you're being asked that's what they're asking you to decide on so as far as we know there's no expected influence from the work um yeah is it just mechanical repairs or there seems like pretty lightweight repairs like you know hand tools you know yeah but it can only be wheels and I mean after that right after that they got to replace them anyway unless mold in plastic that's what I mean not no chemicals andu that's not what what the idea is um they're not going to do a lot of um work to change the building they're going to repair that broken window they're not going to put another door in so they're just going in those two overheads through garage doors yeah um there is a bunch of stuff about electrical service I wonder whether the electrical service work need another door would need to be separately from putting think if something happen we could have that in January I think so um to be honest with you uh i' I see a lot of electrical only permits for um say like tubs where those tubs go sonas and stuff like that or a running a on electrical service out to a shed or something like that the shed's already installed I don't usually get involved because it's a trench cut and cover um so that's a minor issue yeah it almost seems like an area where we don't like to have a permit just for running electrical lines just seem to be over reach I mean if the trench was huge and they're doing a lot of work there I guess one of those buildings has been flooded a lot so they're going to repair all that so it's not just for the containers they have to run a couple of just normal what 220 120 lines to it but there's some fixing that has to happen the electrician told me the pipes that were there have water in them so they need to be redone that a problem having water in near electricity I know I just wondering what the so another point to make is Martha brought up the idea could the containers be parked on the existing parking lot their answer is no because they anticipate using that other building in the future and the containers would be in the way and they're thinking this is a long-term placement with containers which is why to the side uh was chosen we tried to get an idea of the frequency of use every every answer was as needed we don't know enough yet so are they going to have somebody there every day once a week don't know that's where the repairs happen to yes in in in the building maybe you could have the drop off the containers the same hours as the compost that eliminate traffic doesn't eliminate because still coming further down the road um but see but I don't even know are they going to require the resident to bring their Broken Barrel or are they going to get a notice and have a truck go by and pick up all the broken balls well one thing's for sure is you're going to increase the activity in that area yeah no M no matter what it's more and the you know the fence concerns me too just as someone that has like there's a field out there that I always thought could be utilized somehow it's not restricted it's not I mean something could happen in that field but they're putting they're moving the fence up keep people out mean the gate the gate oh yeah the gate and so hang on a second so let's explain let's explain let's explain that you know when you come in stav there's a gate at the at the end and then you can turn into the compost and back out part of The Proposal is putting a new gate right Beyond where you can come out so the cars could go through compost and back out they couldn't go down to the repair Depot except one was open but no cars wouldn't be going there anyway only DPW would be going that's well that's the that's the whole point I mean right now that area is no action um there's action now we're starting to bring action back there is action the cup Scouts go in there on a regular basis the boy scout's going a regular talking about the DPW DPW is like allowing business in there and so with business you got to bring in supplies you got to bring in customers you got to maintain it you have to make sure the surfaces are great not leaking it's updated all these things part of your decision you're there's it's not just what's happening it's what it means too is there mitigation that we could ask for because of all this extra work and I'm also noticing it's 10:30 so I'd love to see us make a decision and move on and we did bring up the idea of a condition that we would be appr proven if we approved it this activity only and if there was any change an activity they help to come back to the commission uh and so that's that was in our Q&A with them so that would have to be a condition if we would I I think it's tough I think it's I think it's a tough discussion as we look more into it you want to do an after the fact it's completely going to change the use they're blocking off Public Access it's got this beautiful field out there what's going to happen with that is it now just for DBW and Scouts well in general people can't drive in there anyway except for during compost hours and people will still walk in there that's where traditionally whatever the so traditionally there was um pories there for track season yeah where are they going now probably still there because the track people still walk in yeah the cars aren't allowed down there for they're in they actually Park them in the compost area they all load the streets so maybe that's a condition you know like I don't think it was asked I mean are you saying that no one can get in there they're not they have to find a new spot for these water potties um because the gates up now but that doesn't prohibit people from walking in there but you're driving in the port ples oh I get your point when they drop one off yes yeah and it needs maintenance they're they're serviced I don't know once a week that's a good point although is that a conservation jurisdiction and P is or not to me like the DW needs to let them in to service the portapotty of the main gate they just have to open the second gate when they open the first gate to let the portapotty truck in I don't know I don't know how it works now and well the gates locked because it's not compost season anymore no the fora parties aren't there now so yeah no I'm it's maybe it's just a question they'll say well no it's same as before we're not you know we not trying to no one's ever trying to take over until it happens but um what so what's the decision are we going to allow this forward or what is this a good spot for these or or not oh and that is a hole in our knowledge we don't know where else it's considered we know they said they look to other places this is where it needs to be primarily because of the electricity is already there um so we're kind of taking their word for that I they could yeah and on top not sure if if it was no they would find another spot what about the DPW where they already have all that stuff put 240 than I mean there's that where we bring the trash I don't know if you can't come to a conclusion let's move on and just and maybe you can do it on Wednesday next week yeah the problem we do have with another problem we have is that they do have uh time constraints because they have to set everything up somewhere in order to roll things out what are those time constraints I didn't well we know that April is when they did you write it down did he tell us yeah it's his answer to the they're going to start using it in April and they need it before they would like to begin on the 16th or 17th of December delivery of containers is penciled in for the 20th of December that's not the trash containers that's the big yeah big guys so they're hoping to do it next week but those aren't so getting the containers here that's they could put the containers where the leaf piles are until this is yeah CU they're not going to be ready for that not but when are the trash barrels getting here which have to be stored in the container well at that point they need trash BR is going to start Simon's way so no but they're getting extras so there's going to be a certain amount that I just assume they'd have them all there and then move the extra that's the that's all right so it's three weeks to put these together or maybe two weeks um so when do they get arrive at Simon's way and so that I so that question about what time is not about come up with something that sounds good it's more about when are you going to fill up the containers because if there's time then we don't have to allow you to do it after the fact sure well it's you have any follow-up questions for me to ask maybe I can do that well we have the one you just brought up which is the actual time when the containers are going to start getting used right I mean do they plan on right my assumption was that they all start in Simon's way and then some migrate over or they're going to split them from the get-go and go down there um are they willing to store the the big containers why don't they put them in the garage but what the contain barrels the trash in the buildings that exist yeah I know one's flooded the other one's not flooded so would there be room for stirring some number of barrels and doing whatever there's nothing going on in there there's a big pump thing making up a lot of Flor space in that brick building with the broken window yeah I was standing next to it yeah that yeah they can some trash barrels in there yeah so we don't know how many they trying to store too okay so that's a second question have they considered not bringing in containers and just using the building and understand that if they it's after the fact permit you're not going to be able to ask those great questions already be installed which is why I don't think we should do it after the fact approval tonight all right I move we stop discussing this tonight and ask them to come in on January 8th with a notice of intent for us to discuss then and they can listen to the rctv here of this bit discussion so they know what kind of questions we're asking would we rather give them notice of intent for the dog uh for the containers oh yeah combine them both I mean it's this a notice of intent yeah but what they we're giving them till January 22nd for the dog watering but if they want to get moving on this they should do this on January oh yeah I'm fine with that I'm just I know we have we're churning our wheels in the mud here let's to the chase so I put a motion then to um have Chuck asked them to submit and in wife for our first January meeting that's I think what I just said right you think I said I didn't okay fine oh sorry I need a motion first I need an official motion I was suggesting what I wanted to to say so I need you put that into a motion my motion was to tell Chuck we want them to bring an noi to the um January January 8e meeting I think him that tals in favor Del martham Moore in favor in favor B in favor you might want to do Mr Steve Knight off the off the line over here so he wants to talk about Joy Lane he has a certificate of compliance the commission looked at it and they decided there was only a few things that needed to be um straightened out and one was a rosion control and the second one was there was a bare spot in back of lot four that needed some attention Steve has proposed to put Juke matting stapled in on the steep slope and um and um on the bare spot they're going to do uh wood chips or bark mulch and cover up that area uh and so his question is is that sufficient for the commission to get a sign off and because you don't have to wait at all for the uh wood chips or the bark mulch that can just be installed and we can we can issue so Steve I can ask you a question this um uh Jud mat and everything you're going to cover both of the eroded areas eroding areas on that steeper slope yeah basically um along the front of the house both where the gutter was kind of overflowing and towards the uh away from the house towards the right yeah and what would that juk netting look three or five years from now what how would it look what's what's the future of it I believe it's biodegradable isn't it I if I'm not be incorporated into the lawn and plant be growing up through through yeah okay it stays until the lawn takes over well it stays it stays as long as it's supposed to hopefully the lawn grows through it um and and uh establish it itself I think it would also help with the weed whacking because at least that's a visual barrier for the landscaping company to stay away yeah I think you do need to impress on that homeowner to get his landscapers to start to stop you know damage in that area because that's just going to hurt him if in the future you know something has to be done about it so right it's in his best interest to get them to do that right same question about the wood chip area what do we expect the wood chip area to look like three years from now now I think it's just to S to cover maybe so it's never going to be lawn we learned that at 1503 Main Street exactly street it's just too shaded too close to the house so something has to go up I think as long as it's not eroding and um you know the homeowner will probably just keep a layer of something on it you know I mean the Land There is very flat if over time um they were pushed into the ground and kicked around then the homeowner would want it to to replenish it to some extent but I think that's on him I don't see a ton of damage otherwise I was just trying to picture whether maybe over time Moss would fill in there or some plant that survives in the shade or if we're just going to keep replenishing the wood chips every couple years I think he needs that area to maintain his house it's too close to the house to think that it would be covered in shrubs so are there any other issues that we want to bring up besides the two points we saw in the walk if not can I have a motion to authorized Chuck to issue a certificate of compliance for Joy Lan Joy Lane I move that with those two things the juk leting and the wood chips that that would be sufficient to to get a certificate of compliance so we authorized CH the issue yeah yeah second Walter talit in favor in favor in favor Michelle in favor Brian bro in favor okay all right Steve thank you thanks sticking with us everyone I hope you're not wearing shorts of course I am thank you all right it had to be there yeah I guess so um so next is approve the 2025 meeting calendar Anybody Everybody a chance to look at it not do to look at it um I haven't seen it yet but do you want to put it up on the screen I don't think I yeah I do I can put it up what I did is I looked around the holidays Fourth of July Labor Day Memorial Day um Memorial Day it's two day the meeting is two days after actual Memorial Day that should be fine so you can put it up and you can deal with it but it's fine and I get on on vacation so we added some mittle dates um yeah this year yeah that's a good idea we only need to submit by the 8th to get on the 22nd is that a two week before okay and then it's all it's all two weeks okay and but then when we asked them to send you changes that's one week before they asked me to to send changes I need I need it before I need it before distribution day is Thursday yeah Thursday before okay so we cross referenced and checked and checked and checked but I'm not telling you that you know we're perfect because something always comes up I would like it if the town provided uh all the holidays in one spot so we could look can verify that we're not taking up some holiday that uh we missed I'm concerned about is the Jewish holidays in the fall um rash sh yam kapor I don't know when those are we're pretty lucky being the second in uh fourth Wednesday uh and we've not had a problem with um with elections or holidays too much but we can change those coming up I believe we looked into into all the known holidays Russ shaa is September 22nd okay we're good J good Bo yam kapor is October 1st okay so we're good have a have a motion to uh I move that we commit to this meeting schedule for next year I second Walter tets in favor in favor Mar Mo in favor Tim Michelle in favor ran bro in favor okay do you have any administrator report um yeah I'm just going to do this quickly do like this lost my way hold on a second um want to talk about the survey in the meantime yeah know just give me just give me a second here um it would be easy just to say on one one thing be that lot yeah um okay so this is uh this is bare Meadow right here Mata cabin bare Meadow Pearl Street this is riddled with Trails it's the bare Meadow conservation uh complex Matera cabin Pavilion other things are going on there and this is wooden Cemetery off of Franklin Street Conservation Commission has a kiosk right here and it leads down through this area here this is our trail entrance and then it wraps around here and then goes through group we've banned dogs in bare Meadow we got a report that we took care of all the entrances including this one here at the front no dog signs so no dogs at bare Meadow we got a report that people were walking in this way and they do this I know a bunch of other groups like hunters and whatnot they understand no hunting but unless there's a sign they don't feel like it's official so when people were walking through here through several reports that received through the commission um we decided to put in a um another sign at this point here this is not an official entrance but you'll see from my next picture that's Woodin sumary that um historically there has been signs there there is this kios that's been there for 10 years or so there's this sign here put up by the cemetery department so what they're trying to do is that when people come down our Trail here supposed to go in front of the sign and then around the corner this sign says uh no dogs does it say no entrance I don't know if it says do not enter or anything like that think so and it gives some other general rules about the con about the uh cemetery and this this has been here and we just put other things in that you know whatever we put there just Trail markers and things like that so this is the new sign and you know it's pretty tall and there's a hill there and I have another picture but I'm not going to get it I just make this so we put the sign in Mike Hanford uh says he was called by someone who realized realz that that sign alerts people and makes them think that this is a trail entrance so Mike has uh asked that uh the uh the DPW survey the entire within Cemetery to find out if we're encroaching on Cemetery property here and at Franklin Street and he says what he wants to do is have these signs removed if they're on if they're on land so we're waiting for the survey to find out I I told them without the survey we could figure out a solution and the solution would be we'll just move the signs back onto where our property is so they'll stay they'll just be F they'll stay but at the Franklin Street entrance he also says that most of that Franklin Street entrance is on conservation land or on on Cemetery Land and he he wants to make some changes there also I reminded him that at CH Street Cemetery we have trails and they're all on Cemetery Land and now we can't have Trails on Cemetery Land I mean this doesn't make any sense it's a pretty isolated spot you should look at it it's uh the DPW wants is supporting Mike from what I understand I haven't heard anything different I've heard my supervisor tell tell me that he's frustrated about this situation he heard from Chris Cole about it Chris Cole is just repeating what Mike Haner is saying these signs need to be removed they're attracting people over the cemetery property according to Mike and Chris you're not allowed to walk on Cemetery grass so that's and he was telling me that Hunters are parking there in the morning also and I said I have nothing to do with that that's I wouldn't want them to park there in the morning and or or anytime and I'm not sure why they can park before I mean it's dawn to dusk I would assume or something like that get there early imagine so those are the the complaints it's all about somehow the hunters are our fault somehow the traffic into the cemetery you know we have to put up something I said why don't you just put up a fence you know people would recognize that and Mike Hanford said people cut holes through fences so he doesn't want to do that so I will say I've been going many mornings to sit there and I've not seen anybody you parked on the pavement I parked right down by the opening oh okay well that makes sense no I parked in the pavement and in fact couple days of course it snowed and there were no tracks that were there before I got there so I don't I don't know maybe I'm just lucky and not being there with people are using or maybe they're is it a solution waiting for looking for a problem what moving the sides I don't know I was there a couple of times and I I didn't see I didn't see the grass onone and us down to dirt you know it wasn't a bison Trail no certainly there's not a lot of activity and I tried to tell Mike that we are on the same page we don't want dog walkers in there and he doesn't want people walking in there our people if there are our people you know the people that are walking the trails wouldn't would have no issues coming in all the way on more Trail through the forest why would they cut through the you know the cemetery and so I think we're on the same page with this and I don't think that so I think we we wait for the results of the survey yeah we wait for the official request from DPW and then we'll make a decision although I I agree it is likely just move things back um we still want it to be posted that there's no dogs in there we don't want to get situation somebody goes in oh there's no sign and we want to be on Solid Ground so we need to have a sign that's I think a sign needs to be posted there even if it's up the trail a little bit because they people really believe that if it's no sign I didn't see a sign you know why you ever see the signs up in New Hampshire like when they're saying posted no hunting they're like 20 feet apart so the the cemetery sign should be moved in the middle of that Gap yeah I mean I I thought a fence would be a good idea they're actually thinking about putting rocks down there to you know obviously if we getting into like structures it's going to be another permit that the Conservation Commission has to approve even if they are Stones you know we don't know what this is going to look like you can't have activity within the buffer zone without a permit so I this would be just a better thing to work out rather than to oh besid you put you put Boulders down there they did that in the Town Forest there a one road Trail they were kind of cut off they put Boulders across it it would just walk around it now there's two trails around the boulders so that's not going to stop the traffic if somebody wants to go walk in there they're going to walk a little bit further around the edge I mean that's it's not like they're putting an electric fence up or something so anyway I think that's enough for tonight on that one uh I want to bring up something that's not on the agenda we need to vote to uh approve to spend some money um piece of land was donated to us a while ago zero Waverly not a big piece at all um it was discovered that there was a shed on it which has finally been moved after low these many months and so at this point we want to move forward to get it surveyed so that we can then accept the donation and that would be $400 let me just update it so had it surveyed it was like three grand oh sorry and that's when the the shed was discovered the corner of the shed was on Rocky Town Council told us don't get involved different rules for the town they were like you know you need to accept the land without any encroachment so I told the donator the donor that and we they tried to have a conversation and finally they said we'll get back to you when things are Happ so finally the shed's been moved they decided to remove the entire shed not just change it change its orientation so it's off the land um and uh what we have to do according to Town Council is just verify it through a survey that the shed is removed and there's no other encroachment to come back and redo the survey that verification process it's going to cost $400 so it's so we need need to approve yeah that spend expenditure so can I have a motion I move to approve the $400 to um finish to redo that piece of the survey yeah second second toppets in favor in fav in favor Rano in favor okay one last item we have some minutes do we have minutes I would suggest that we don't vote the minutes this meeting because we've gone so long um I sent the October 23rd minutes to Chuck I don't know that they've been sent out to the rest of the group and I haven't done the November minutes okay so that was easy okay and but but before we're done um just a reminder that we're having the big meeting with all of the different groups at Mata cabin January 12 1 to 4m. landu Summit if you want to watch the playoffs keep them at home Trails committee committee open Land Trust climate advisory and he's invited at least one select board member I'm trying to get a select board member and Andrew McNichol to show up so Andrew McNichol is the uh planner and um other services this is the second annual I'm not going without a vest that's it uh you haven't proven yourself yet I mean you have an expert on one thing you haven't asked one dumb question yet so well give me time that's that's the bar time all right okay on that not yes um how are we reminding the other committees about the landu summit Chuck I I thought you took that over glad you asked question is it back in my court um I thought you were sending it out to the um chairs of the Committees was I sending it out to you sending out yeah you uh were sending out and I thought you did that I thought we picked a date and you sent it out I'm saying reminding she sent the survey out yeah I'll get to you I'll send an email tomorrow um I'll and we'll just get together on the same page whether I'm doing it you're doing it I I did it last year it was easy enough okay yeah I just I think I did tell the chairs I think that was a month ago and we should remind people to tell their committee members to I think they they responded to you I think you should do all the chairs again and I should reach out to Andrew and like board member all right okay I'm gonna send you a um well you know we just do that and then I'll send you a flyer unless the Flyer's done I can't remember it 11 o'clock at night um one last question I've shut down my PC so clearly I'm done um what about the newsletter when we want to get going on that again second on that the first of the year first of the year not gonna go because I'm tired of playing with chat GPC I was going to suggest we might go to the um drought website from the government and get one of their PDFs about drought and water conservation and um put it in our newsletter but also send it to the town manager minute um yeah you guys think that's a good idea I will um be glad to take that on and one quick note from that seminar I saw you you were there I didn't see you Chuck did you not make it I went to the first oh okay um anyway one interesting thing that I liked was they said that during a drought you can't use visual observation as a method of delting the weapons um because apparently some people have been saying oh look it's dry and send them pictures and then as the rain changed they move further Upstream so there is a rule in play saying or a decision in place saying you can't do that when not dting Wetlands but but from changing the J the the determination from a yeah perennial to an intermittent stream visual observation is not allowed not not but it said lineation which is why I said that because all the examples were the stream characteristics yeah anyway I thought that was interesting this seminar I thought was okay that's a seldom used thing you don't see people coming in with like development and saying well you know like last year they on his five pictures they say four four straight days with pictures but they kept on moving they get a picture that was dry okay moot whoa whoa whoa can can you confirm that we have another meeting on Wednesday the 18th we don't this is our only meeting for December it was a followup to we're gonna have a second me oh I I let I thought we would um I thought we would send out emails and find out um yeah so so basically we will coordinate that through emails offline because you want to include Tony but but I'm gonna say it's 90% there how's that and we want it at seven o'clock really what do you want it at When's the earliest you guys four I'd be happy to do earlier I would too I think four would be an issue but six wouldn't because while I was here I got I got invited to reunion it's online right yeah online only we're not supposed to you know like people work 9 to5 so like I'm time to get home so 5:36 probably be the earliest did you kill the court did we get our vote Walter it looks like six o'clock on Wednesday okay can we can we vote on adjourning at 11:04 I move we adjourn at 114 I second all in favor okay Walter says I I all right good night everyone record they don't usually 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