Start recording. Recording in progress. All right. I expect everyone can hear me. There's any issues, you can let me know. Let's give it a few more minutes so people uh log in correctly.
Think we lost Tim again. No, I'm right here. Okay. Hello everyone. This is Chuck Chiron. Readings conservation administrators will be conducted uh in person and remote format consistent with chapter 2 of the act of 2023
further extend the certain COVID 19 measures regarding remote participation and public meetings until Jan June 30th 2027. Please note that not all items listed may be in fact discussed and other items not listed may be brought up
for discussion. the extent permitted by law. The agenda includes those matters which can be reasonably anticipated to be discussed at this meeting. Please note that this meeting is being recorded. All materials are available at the following link provide in the chat.
Brian B, the commission chair will facilitate the meeting. Please note that we will be uh public comment period at the end of each hearing. Each vote will be taken during this meeting uh will be conducted by roll call vote and we'll begin with a roll call attendance. Uh
Brian, can you uh review the agenda and take the roll call attendance? So first we start with a continuation on a hearing for nurse of intent for 885 Main Street that will be continued. However, we cross that bridge we get to
it. followed by a continuation of a public hearing on an abbreviated notice of resource area delineation of 695 Pearl Street. Then moving on to continuation on an NOI for 57 Longwood Road.
Um then uh 692 Pearl Street is a continuation of a public public hearing on request for determination of applicability in RDA. And that's it for our hearings tonight. Then we have open new business and some discussion items
and some minutes to approve. Having said that, I will now do the roll call and this will be the order that we vote in when we get to that. Uh so first Martha Martha Moore vice chair present.
Walter Walter Talbet member present. Sure I got there. I didn't see him. Uh Tim Tim Michelle member present. Rick Kio member present. Joe
Joseph Flurry associate member present and Brian Bo chair present. Okay given that call to order at 707. Um so ready for the first hearing which
is 885 Main Street. As I said at the applicant's request, that's going to be continued until July 23rd. Can I have a motion to that effect? I move to continue
um 885 Main Street to July 23rd. Walter Talbet seconds. Walter Talbot approves. Martha Martha Moore in favor Tim to Michelle in favor
Mchu in favor and Brian Bow in favor okay so let me just make one announcement that we did receive the second round of comments from our third party reviewer uh we won't be discussing those tonight but they'll be uh you can find those on
the conservation division page under uh 885 Main Street and so we expect them at the uh the July 23rd meeting for uh discussion. Okay. Uh next is 695 Pearl Street
and they'll also be continued to July 23rd. Okay. Can I have a motion to continue 695 Pearl to July 28? I move to continue 695 Pearl Street to July 23rd. Walter Talbot seconds it.
Walter Talbett's in favor. Martha Moore in favor. Michelle in favor. You in favor. Ryan Bow in favor. Okay. Um, next is 57 Longwood Road.
Yeah. So, uh, we have a choice on this one. Um, so they haven't been responding to emails. So we can either take this off the agenda and wait for them to contact us again. They would have to renotify and
put a, you know, put an ad in the paper or we can continue it to our next meeting. I just assume continue it and keep continuing it. So there's going to be a point where it's not going to make any sense anymore. One more. Okay. So, I just wanted to
tell you that we don't continue it, they need to spend some money to get back on the agenda. Right. Chair. So, can I have a motion? Um, Brian to get up. Just my own understanding. How long has this been continuing for? Couple months. Okay.
Yeah. So, maybe four meetings. And, uh, a couple times I reached out and said uh, something to the effect of uh, you know, consultants. There's a consultant that works for Hayes Engineering on this project. I said, "Usually consultants let us know when they're not going to come to the meeting
and continue that meeting." And I didn't even receive a reply to that email. Okay. Can I have a motion to continue 57 Longwood to July 20th? So moved by Martha Moore. Walter Talbert seconds. Walter Talbert
approves. Martha Moore in favor. Michelle in favor. in favor in favor. Okay. 692 Pearl Street before we get started.
Uh Ricko member um applicant I do have to recuse myself because you'll be presenting. I'll be presenting. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Uh let's say I will read the blurb. uh continue the public hearing on
request for a determination of applicability followed by Rick Richard Kio pursuant to Massachusetts general law chapter 131 section 40 the wetlands protection act andor the wetland wetland protection bylaw section 7.1 the
applicant proposes tree removal of 11 trees within 100 feet of a bordant vegetated wetland and intermittent stream the application and plans can be viewed during regular business hours at the town hall conservation office 16 low street reading mass and on the
conservation division page project by year access map 57 lot 2 IDA 2025-8. Okay. You want to introduce yourself and walk us through it? My name is Richard Kio. Um my wife and I
we live at 692 Pearl Street. I want to thank you for the opportunity to speak tonight regarding my RGA. Uh, this request seeks approval to remove 11 edge trees located within 100 ft of Bolt a bordered bordering vegetated wetland and intermittent
man-made drainage ditch. Nine of the trees are mature white pines, each between 21 and 28 inches in diameter, approximately 80 to 100 ft tall. They all lean toward the home. Two additional oak trees near the ditch are
structurally compromised and present a similar threat. Let me also clarify that the request is not tied to any current plans for building. Our focus is strictly on safety, moving trees that pose a real and documented hazard. While I can't
predict what we might consider years down the road, there are no active plans to build on the property and I will keep conservation guidelines in mind. This concern is personal to me. I grew up along the Ipsswitch River surrounded
by woods in North Reading. And one of the reasons my wife and I chose this property was because of the natural setting and how it reminded me of home. I love being in the woods. It's part of who I am. But I've also seen the dangers that large unstable trees impose. A
close family friend of mine, Mr. Tom Gunning, was tragically struck and killed in 2016. by a fallen limb in his backyard in Ken the age of 48 while shoveling. That same day in Ken, a six-year-old
child died while also being struck by a fallen limb. These are avoidable tragedies, and I do not want to see anything like that happened to someone I love or anyone in the neighborhood. Our plan includes responsible removal as
with pre previously approved work. The root balls will remain to prevent soil disruption and all tree debris will be removed. A police detail will be scheduled to ensure public safety during the removal process. Although we are limited in replanting
options due to a dense canopies and existing root systems, we do plan to introduce native shrubs or native trees, particularly along the rear property line and along the ditch to help restore habitat and provide some privacy. My wife is particularly
interested in planting mountain laurel, a uh native shrub we believe could thrive in the area. Additionally, if replanting on site proves constrained, we are open to donating trees to Bare Meadow Park just across the street or making a financial contribution in
support of local conservation efforts. In closing, I respectfully ask for a positive determination for this work so that we can address these serious risks in a timely and responsible manner. I appreciate your consideration. Look forward to working with you all. Thank you.
Oh, just to clarify, on an RDA, you actually want a negative determination. Okay, that's the positive outcome. Okay, sorry. Um, okay, commission members, any questions? The word ditch was used several times.
Have we established that that water structure on the side of the property is a ditch, a stream? pond. I mean, what is the definition of it? Yeah, I think the applicant is calling
it a ditch because it's um it's the bane of his existence at this moment, removing these trees. And um the wetland scientist myself
uh would call it an intermittent stream because it flows from a wetland and um whether it's across the street or whether it's behind the associated
property that's at um 700 uh Pearl Street. But I have to also let you know that engineering calls these things strange ditches also. So that never bothered me. But for us it's an intermittent stream.
So it's under the jurisdiction of intermediate streams. Yeah. Not under the jurisdiction of ditches which there are none. So there's no drainage ditch in the wetlands protection act. There's there's streams,
there's rivers, and there's intermittent streams. Okay. So, you'll find those those three things. Okay. Um I was not present in the last visit, I guess, to identify which the 11 trees
they are. Whoever did that, I would like to hear from them as well. Thank you. Um Tim, do you have anything? I can't see that you could have a hand up or anything. No, I am. I'm all set.
Martha, do you want to walk us through our visit there? Sure. Um, I apologize, Richard, that I wasn't able to go when you were able to be home, but I did want to make sure I had a chance to see your property when I
was in town. Um, and I, um, took some notes while we were there. Um, assuming that you have permission to take down the trees you're looking to take down, I was looking especially for
opportunities where your plantings could take place. And um one thing I noticed is that your front yard has no existing plantings. Um no um foundation shrubs along the front of the house, no trees
in front. Often people have somewhat smaller, more decorative trees like a dogwood, something like that in the front yard. Um, so that's an opportunity for some tree planting or some of those um, mountain laurels that you were
thinking about. Um, I also noticed that behind your shed there's quite a stand of buckthornne and if you were to remove that invasive buckthornne that would also open up some space for um, planting
other trees. There is a maple there. Yep. Uh, buckthornne. Forgive me, I don't actually know what a buckthornne is. Invasive. Yeah. Um, we could come out and identify it for you so you would know what you're
looking at, but it's a a shrub that is invasive and it's one that we encourage people to take down um, and, you know, try to keep keep the buckthornne population low. So basically, you've got
a stand of sort of 6 to 8 foot tall shrubs behind your shed. And if you took those out, you would have room for a maple that's already growing there or maybe put a couple of other trees off in that back corner of your property.
I would agree with you. I have looked at that area. There is a um an oak that the arborist had mentioned to me that was already dead. Um, it didn't really pose a danger to me, which is why it wasn't tied up. U, if it's okay with you, Martha, I
would love to replace that with a with another tree as well. It's currently not on the list of the 11 trees, but that is an opportunity for another new replacement tree in that spot. Okay. Yeah, I did make a note of a dead
tree back in that corner. And I also made a note that tree A along the stream looked like it was dead to me. Um, so tree A would not actually count in your tree count because if it's truly dead
with no bark on it, it doesn't count as a um a tree being removed. Um, and a shrub or two for that tree to replace it. Sorry, can you say that again? I said, "I still would consider adding another
shrub to replace that." Yeah. Um, when Brian and I walked the property, you had a strip of yellow tape that seemed to be where you thought the 100 foot line was.
That's correct. Okay. Um, when we measured the 100 ft line, we thought that it was um, probably not quite accurate and there
are two more trees just outside of your yellow tape that we would consider to be part of this proposal. Um, and I don't know if you got a copy of my sketch that I drew those in.
I did not. Okay. Um, they are quite close to I and H on your plan. And I would think that we should count them when we're counting within the 100 foot line. Everything else is further out.
Yeah. So there you see the 100 foot line and I and H. Um, we think the 100 foot line should be just a little further back and include two more trees beyond I and H. Hold on. I don't know where it just went.
Sorry, guys. It was there a minute ago. Better than this. It's not that one for sure. Were they in the center, Martha? um behind the house just beyond your yellow
tape. So, I'm not saying that we wouldn't let you take them down. Just they need to be included in the proposal based on my plan. Yeah, that's the one.
So, if you see I and H in the backyard. Yeah. Okay. I just beyond the yellow tape from I and H there's two more trees and then there's a big gap and the rest of the trees in your property are further back and clearly beyond 100 ft.
I would agree with that. Yeah. I did I didn't know it was so close. I I could go either way with it. I'm totally fine adding those two trees. Yeah. Um so um those were my observations. I did
notice that a number of your trees um had multiple leaders, so I would um think that those um are less safe to keep. Um
the trees that looked like they were in pretty good shape are behind the shed. D, E, F, J, and K. Um, so I'd want to consider those independently of the other ones
that are closer and more damaged like I, J, I mean I, H, G, um, and the ones you marked as approved.
Um, so that's my thought. And I think the ones that I'm talking about, I'm calling them four and five, just beyond the yellow tape, those also have multiple leaders. So, um I would be comfortable if we had
a good planting plan for um removing them and replacing them with other trees. I think that's all I have to say on this one. Okay. All right. Um let me add to that. Um I
just told you on the side basically we agreed with that line as long as you take the rightmost part of it and uh pivot it back 10 12 feet or so and that's when those trees fall into you. Um,
we did notice as we were going to measure to the wetland at the top right there that you have some piles of brush and what have you uh in the jurisdiction. So, if you could remove those. Yeah, we discussed it. I think the last time you and I did clean out the ditch.
I'm sure you saw um when we when we were there, we still saw more than one pile. Could be two, right? But in the ditch itself went in there and cleaned out all the leaves in the string. Yep. Got me.
Okay. Um so I would like to see a plan um with a little detail about where you would put the replacement trees. Um and I recognize that your goal is to create
a yard like you grew up with. uh I can accept that which would mean putting them around the periphery uh to some extent but if you could tell us where how many what kind I would find
that helpful and I would like to bring a specialist on on site as well some time sorry that's fine I also would prefer more trees than shrubs doesn't have to be all trees but um I certainly would prefer
that the trees get replaced as much as possible. Uh let's see. Yeah, that was it. When we were measuring it, it was difficult. It was dry. So, we're measuring it from
uh the top of a bank of a depression. So, it was by no means exact, which is why I said it about 10 12 feet, but it was enough that two more trees fell inside. And that's all I have to really say about that. Anybody else have any
questions, comments? Hey, Brian, it's Joseph. Can you just uh clarify what you mean by approved on this map? Oh, um, those are ones that we previously had agreed that Rick could take down because they were considered
hazardous. Perfect. Thanks. Great question. talk to you, anything you want to bring in? Uh, yeah. So, those trees that are are approved would still be counted as the overall removal unless they're
barkless and meet our dead standards. The only thing I want to mention, Rick, is I understand that you don't understand the stream and stream morphology or anything like that.
Raking out a stream is bad. It's almost the worst thing that you could possibly do. We've given out violations for people that have altered that. So surprised Brian or Martha or someone didn't say anything about didn't want me to be the guy, but
this is not a seasonal thing that you can do. I mean, you did it this time. Yeah. What we only allow is if there's a blockage that just happened. So, you know, and it's blocking the culvert. Yeah, you know, take that out. I mean,
and do some stuff, but I don't think you should take a weekend to do from one end to the other. Always maintain it. It should ride on top of those leaves. Those leaves are helping it to um stay moist and stay wet. And there's a lot of
activity that's happening underneath the leaves. So, just want to mention that that we're not approving that. The commission's not going to approve like that. But now that you know, uh, it's it's just the blockage. And I understand it happens. I have a culvert in front of my driveway and when there's a first
flush of any storm, sometimes it gets blocked up. And I try to get that first few feet out of there. And, you know, that's maintenance, but the whole thing's not maintenance. It's just that couple of feet in front. But that's that's all I wanted to say. And I
appreciate you listening to that. I I I walked the property several months ago, but this is before we started identifying specific trees. If this project goes through, how many trees would be left within the 100 foot
zone? Um, so off to the right where the stream is, a number of those would be left there. But it still would be trees there and that's also where they're talking about uh planting more for screening and
what have you. As far as the back u to the back left closest to the property, there's one or two over there that are pretty damaged. Those are definitely coming out. And then ahead of you, they're coming out. So there will
be almost none in the rectangular yard type area, but they'll be off to the right between the two properties. That's accurate. And show an aerial photo of the property. You can sense how many trees
are on it. Um, so I understand that I, H, and G are healthy trees. Uh uh those are ones that are tall, close, and at least one of them has lean
at this point. They're healthy. Yes. Brian. Brian. Did Walter ask about IH and G? Just I and H, I think. Oh, IH and G. Oh, sorry. Okay. Um, I has all of its
branches on one side. H has three leaders and G has three leaders. Okay. So, they're they're risky trees, let's say, from their own health perspective. Yeah. And there are a few um deciduous
trees in among these pines in the backyard. There's an elm near the place that's marked as 100 foot on the on the drawing. There's a cherry over near the shed. So, you know, if those younger
trees were left, there would be um some trees left on the property, even if the tall pines were taken out. Yeah, Martha, that elm tree near the shed is marked for removal.
At least according to the arrest review. Um, do you have a letter on it? I think that's C. C is a pine. Um, oh yeah, see is a pine. Um, yeah, I I marked in a cherry that was
not marked on the list near the shed. It's um kind of near J, tucked in between G and D. Okay. So, the elm tree according to the arborist letter is close to the house at the back right which is growing toward
the house. Okay. So, they might want to remove that too, but it's maybe just outside the 100 foot. You talking about the one in the uh top right quadrant behind the shed that I No, I'm talking about right next to the
place where you rode 100 feet on the line. If Chuck moves his cursor, I can tell you if he's pointing in the right place. Yeah, just a little up from there. Right there. There was an elm right there.
But I didn't compare that elm to the arborous letter. So, if it's in the arborous letter as leaning toward the house, maybe that's not one you're planning to save. When a letter says back, right, I don't know if that constitutes back right. No.
And then not in our 100 foot jurisdiction, there are some other things, a red maple and some small maples, maybe a Norway maple. Um, but they're outside our jurisdiction in that upper left corner.
So, are we comfortable? We know which trees are going to come down. I think Walter asked a question about how many trees are going to be left on the lot and I put this up. I think that question is still out out there. I'd like to know the answer to that also.
Long term short term. So what's that in the blue? What is that going to look like when all the trees are cut down? So we understand what's in our jurisdiction. But what happens outside of our
jurisdiction, as it says in our regulations, sometimes affects what's in our jurisdiction. So, it's appropriate to ask at least. So, is there um are you saving any trees within that lot? Going to consider it. Yes. But for the most part, they're all
coming down for the most part. Yes. There's a lot of pine still in that uh top left quadrant. All right. So most of the trees are coming down and so um that was the answer my question. You okay with that?
I mean do you understand the answer? I'm not asking are you okay to get a response? I'm have no jurisdiction outside foot but since it does affect within our jurisdiction what would the drainage situation be?
Well, um, so I think it I think it I think when you see a clear cutting of an entire lot, then you know there's a lot more going on and you're focusing on our jurisdiction, but if all the rest of the trees are
going, it's really creating more disturbance than uh just what's happening in our jurisdiction. And again, we do have the right to look outside of it if it if there's something that we expect that will happen more
likely than not. Semantics are we had several conversations with you before you applied the paperwork and one of the impressions I have in my mind is the whole place is going to go well. Mhm.
Now, I've not heard that on the record, but well, he just he did just say that he's taken down most of the trees on the lot. But again, I'm also going to be replanting trees along the outside plot
uh plot lines in the rear as well. Like I said, I'm not looking for a blank. I'm just looking for some safety to get down some of these big pines. Okay, Martha.
Um, all I would like to see is a more um fleshed out planting plan. Um, where will the mountain laurels go? What other trees are you planning to replant? Um, and exactly where um on the property
would those trees go? I see you've got the the green boxes here, but that's not very fleshed out. And when you're planting something like a red maple, we
want them something like 20 ft apart. So, you need more space than what's shown on those small boxes. Yeah. To put those trees. Like I said, I I do plan on trying to bring somebody on site to take a look at the property. I don't know a whole lot
about planting or anything like that and how much feet apart for trees either be or shrubs. Um I just need a little bit of time to do that and I can obviously report back to you. So we would like to see that plan before
the cutting is done other than you can obviously already remove the ones with approved because there were more hazards. I recognize there's logistics issue there but I think we want to see a plan that we can can improve.
I don't think there's been a discussion of timing. When when would you like this done? I've been discussing it since March. When would you like first feasibly possible for Northeast Tree Services and then the replanting?
I hope I still got to save up for the trees and stuff like that, but I hope this fall next spring I could have everything in line. I just moved in. I still got to furnish the place. I I do think we need to have a plan that
shows what, where, how many, and an idea of when um not so much for the cutting, but for the planting. And then we're going to have we will impose a surviv survivability ratio and
a duration. coming years at the end of two years you have to have uh a certain percentage of survivors. So that's all predicated on the plan. So I think the sooner you get the plan, the sooner you
can put this fully to bed. We have anybody you recommend that can come on site and help me out with this? Okay. Um, no. I Well, I don't as a town employee, we don't
give recommendations, so the commission knows somebody. I'm not sure, you know, how that works, but you'll certainly hear of people being on the commission also. So, um, that would be, uh, you know, something that you could do. So,
Um, the only thing I would say is there are other people who have had to turn in planting plans and they are public record on the conservation division website. So, you could look back through some of those properties and see
who shows up frequently. Okay. Thank you, Marco. Yeah. And so it sounds like we need to request a continuance till the next meeting to give him a chance to put his planting plan together. Yeah, I I think that you could get
somebody out there and and still meet our our deadline for that. So this could most likely uh if that happens wrapped up at our next meeting. But again, you can take down the four.
We don't need a surveyed plan. And this could be a sketch time. You know that. Yeah. I just want to be sure that that's clear. Cost a lot of money to bring him back a second time. Yeah. Yeah. So, a sketch would be fine as long as it's understandable. I mean, what you
have on the screen now is like Martha said, it just needs a little more detail. Um, and I think you might be planting a lot more than was there 12 trees now? I wrote down 12 trees because we added one. You said you would put one in voluntarily. That
kind of missed the comment, but was it was it a dead one? Yeah. Yeah. So, that's still optional until we finalize this, but you talk to your person and then uh and then come back to the commission. We need that by next Wednesday. That could happen.
Let me check. Yeah, it would be next. Is your hand up fresh or still up? Oh, I'm sorry. That's why you called on me. Yeah, that was from earlier. I can make some calls and help facilitate it.
Facilitate what? Getting someone on site to help with a plan. Uh, as Chuck said, as town employees, we're not allowed to make recommendations or anything. Well, I said me. That was for me. Right. I'm not a town employee.
Yeah. No, you're you're actually a a aquasi employee. uh we are considered special employees. Yeah. But um I've seen it in other commissions where they'll, you know, hand out some names at a public meeting,
which I'm not sure people do it here. Maybe we should check into that first. I know I can't do it. Yeah, I know you. Yeah. Um Yeah, we'll talk about that. That's you know, so we didn't we didn't check. I mean, I can ask Laura Jim tomorrow.
I know what's going on with that. But uh so on that a real policy. Yeah. On that note, we need to continue to the 23rd. Um so can I have a motion to continue uh 692 Pearl to the 23rd.
I move to continue 692 Pearl Street to July 23rd. Walter Talbot seconds it. Walter Talbot's in favor. Martha Moore in favor. Michelle in favor. Brian Bow in favor.
And is that 40 then because Rich recused himself? Yes. Okay. Okay. Come on back. Member friends. Okay, that's it for the hearings.
Uh, yep. Let me see if anyone's here. Gino F is in the waiting room. They are. Gino, are you both here for um 50 Johanna? What are you here for? We're inheritance.
695 Pearl Street. Okay. Um and it's in continuence. You might want to say something later when we have public open forum. Is that what you're Yeah, we're just gonna Oh, understand the process. Okay. Okay. Just wanted to make sure.
So, uh Gino, um I did talk to Moren and she said she's juggling a couple of meetings. I don't believe she's here. Um, and she asked me to wait until up until 8:15 and she said if she can't
make it at that point, she's not going to make it. So, um, so can I have a motion to continue this till later in this meeting? Yeah. So, I hope you understood that also from Moren.
I move to continue 50 Joanna until later in the hearing in the meeting. Seconds it. Walter Talbert's in favor. Martha Moore in favor. Michelle in favor.
You in favor in favor. Okay. Uh violation notices. No updates unless you have anything on Pearl Street. I'm just hoping. Okay. No, nothing on Pearl Street.
Okay. Um then discussion discussion items. Item seven is B research. Chuck, do you want to walk us through that? Yeah. Um so uh Elsie Tally a PhD student from Ruters
University would like to conduct some a smallcale research project at Mlet Psalms and Morgan. Uh Elsie will be sampling a limited number of uh Saratina Kolkarta bees. And I have a picture of
those and if someone can say it better than me I please go for it. So these are the bees that we're talking about. Um, and I guess they're at uh they're at uh Mlette Soms and Morgan and um they're
small carpenter bees native to northern uh North America and they're notable for its role in a general pollinator and as a model organism in a study of social uh evolution which is quite interesting.
So we uh I did give permission for this uh bee research out in Mallets and Morgan. I thought it was a notable project in a notable uh town uh conservation open space and uh they said
they would be happy to share the research with us and if there was time they would come to the commission and present the research to us and uh so I thought that was pretty interesting and so I'm happy uh that they accepted and Morgan and I do want to let our
pollinator guy know about this because he's also uh you know has a interest into in bugs and bees and so so these are good insects uh they're not invasives or well they're these I did a little
looking around and these bees are uh they're very good at pollinating other plants and so that's one of the things but I was most uh interested in their uh their physical characteristics and and why they were considered model uh model
specimens. So that that was more interesting. So I looked and they're not endangered or anything like that. So no no So Okay. So you need us to approve that. You need us to Well, I I already approved it. It was
more of an update. So that's really all. Um you can approve it if you feel like it. No, that's fine. You approved it. It's on you. I heard back from members that they thought it was a good idea. And I appreciate the members that did reach out that they did it separately and they
didn't do break the open meeting law by telling their information that they approve it or they thought it was a great idea um on a reply all email. So to in a second. So uh yeah.
Okay. So the next item is the onboarding of new members. Um so we have Tim Michelle who's been on as an associate member and henceforth will be
a full member. We have Rick Kio who's joining us as a full member and we have Joe Flurry who's joining us as an associate member. So that brings up us up to is that seven full members.
Six full members and one associate member. Two associate members. Carl is two associate. So we're getting there. We're growing back up. So we lost Todd. Yes. He has to deal with some things. So
um this is a good time as any to do a brief I mean brief discussion of the open meeting law and how it affects us in particular uh especially visav site visits and what have you. Um, and I
believe you'll be asked to as new members, you'll be asked to take an online online course that has to do with uh new board members and uh implications of open meeting law, but you should be
seeing that in your mail. I sent that out today for the ethics and um open meeting law. Yeah. Okay. And so what you should do is uh there's two there's two links. One of them is from the town and if you go to
the state website, you sign up, they'll remind you because um ethics is once a year. They'll remind you that you're getting close and they'll send you a reminder to take that ethics course again and then and then years to take it,
right? I believe it says on there. I didn't read it. Yeah, I know that. uh you you have some time but we shouldn't be talking about this in November let's say you know it should it's once a year and it's generally around you know this is our fiscal year
so one of the things we do each fiscal year which was forgot that we're going to have to put on in the next agenda is we have to reappoint our chair and vice chair so all these things happen during this time okay so let me do the brief summary so
um open meeting law ensures transparency in government by requiring that deliberations and decisions of public bodies be made open to the public. Public bodies, that's uh anything in the county, the state, local governments, boards, committees, commissions. So,
obviously us um when a quorum of members meets to discuss public business, the meeting must be open to the public. quorum for us because we have in seven we have
seven members is four um and so if we have four in a site visit or standing in the parking lot uh we can't deliberate you can talk about things like scheduling you know do the site visit next Monday I'll see you
there whatever but we can't give opinions try and sway opinions on any particular item that's before We have to post notice of meetings at least 48 hours in advance. Chuck takes care of that. He posts the agenda uh
online uh the previous Thursday. So, it's actually more than 48 hours before the meeting the following Wednesday. Minutes must be recorded in written minutes that are made available to the public. Uh so we now have a transcriber
um that we pay to uh write up our minutes. Uh as they are done they will be circulated to us and we review them and send comments back to her. Uh we do not send comments to everybody. Uh
that's one of the things they look for that serial communication. So you would say comments back just to her um and then she can do the updates and then we would approve those minutes as amended when we get to that point. But in
general the key point um a part of the of the law has to do with the use of technology. So you can't do a reply all for anything that concerns uh public business and you can't do serial communication which
would be something like uh I send an email um to you you do comments changes and you send the author and so so forth because that amounts to uh conducting business not in public.
Uh so this is overseen by the attorney general's office. Complaints are filed by members of the public. Uh and that's pretty much it on the violations. Um let's see what else did I want to
say? Um so for us the main thing is just the uh the communication and when we um are together outside of this room. This commission has been really good about most people getting to site visits. So,
it is likely that we have a quorum, close to a quorum. Um, we also have to watch it if there's a public meeting that we're attending. For example, when Simon's way is being discussed, u there were a number of commission
members there. We had to be sure that there weren't a quorum in which case we would have had to go into session. Uh likewise with the MBTA meetings that had a lot of interest and we'd have to be aware of the forum there as well. It doesn't mean we can't meet it. Just we
have to declare the meeting and I think that's all I really wanted to say. Anything else you wanted to add to that, Chuck? Well, I just think that if you take the course, it's it it um you know, it speaks for itself. It's important. Um
it's this is a this is a town where there's been a lot of open meeting law violations uh thrown at committees. So, it's very important not to break those rules. And I'm empowering all commission members when they see someone on an
email, not just me, to say, "Hey, save that for the meeting. That may be an open meeting law violation. Don't discuss, you know, end it." Whatever you want to say, but that's what we want to do with our
emails. When I feel like something is so enticing that it may start a conversation, I bcc everyone. So um blind CC and um people don't know they so they can't
just reply all and so that might be by habit also. So for example I go home tonight I look up those bees and I discover they're poisonous. If I I could and I send a blanket email out to everybody and say hey those bees
we discussed are poisonous. I believe it's I so just my own experience you can send out a comment but then make sure that everyone understands that they're not to reply and this will be discussed at a meeting
but you should also BCC everyone. Okay. Yeah. And you have to be aware of the serial communication which is if people sent you a comment back just to you, you couldn't turn around and send something out and start a change or someone wrote back and it was
completely wrong and misconstrued what you were saying and you really felt passionate about correcting that. You can't I can't. So, some commissions actually would tell you you should send that to me. I'll post it when the you know in the time
and the commission will read it during their uh you know when it's posted. Okay. Things are posted. We'll put it up on the website or we'll send it out to commission during on distribution day. I like that system. I'll send it to you and I know you're bored. I mean, it's difficult mostly around um
the minutes because we need to know what you said. I mean, you're not supposed to look at Brian and say, "Hey, Brian did said this and that's not correct." Just look, you know, look at least at what you said and make sure that's correct and it has the tone and
and you know, the meaning correct. So, that's how you would do the minutes. So I think that's it for open meeting. Next topic is conservation DPW monthly meeting which is scheduled this month
for July 15th. Martha I forget. Are you unable to meet that? I can come as long as it's um uh available online. I may be home. I may not.
Okay. Okay. And I believe I and by the way anybody is always welcome to that just it's uh Tuesday at 1 o'clock and unless you have lives. Okay. Administrative 54 check meadow
planting grant. Yeah. So uh we've been struggling with uh watering enough at Bear Meadow. We have about $12,000 worth of trees out and trees and plants out and four new gardens in the meadow.
And so we've um so each year I have over the course of the summer I have almost a hundred volunteers come through but it's usually 20 a week and then a couple weeks we have big weeks where it's 40 or
50. So um we've been watering every day and or every other day when it's needed, but during the heat spells every other day. We've had some die off already out there. And in August, um the volunteers are going to leave. So,
I'm going to need I need to get through August. August is the last hot hot month and maybe some part of September. So, I'm going to try to find new volunteers, but I'm also asking the commission members. Now, Garrett lives close. I've reached out to him. Uh Garrett's someone that uh is very active around the trails
committee. you'll see him at some of our work days or whatnot if you if you go. Um I've asked Garrett and others that live around there uh like Will Finch, but um right now I've only been able to find one person that would cover it over
the weekends. So this is going to be something I'm going to do because I don't want things to die out there, but I would like some help. So I'm not there every day. So that's something to think about. um
the watering. So, there's a hose out there and you just turn the hose on and you I I disconnect it the closest to the garden I want to water and I just put the sprayer on it and spray the spray the plants and fill up the gator bags.
So, it's pretty easy. I did it in two hours. That's that's your commitment about two hours. It's also easy to find the four gardens because it's it's been trampled. Yeah. To and from a lot of action. Um if you're out there after see what time
I get home from Chesta, an hour and a half, two hours sometimes 5:30 you're out there. Oh, absolutely. So the song land is open from dawn till dusk. Okay. I can meet you out there to get an idea of the landscape and if I have time I can go over. Even if you did two and
then reached out and said, "I did two. Can someone pick up the other two tomorrow?" And that that would be great because that would just be, you know, it might even be less than an hour. So, I will say some of the neighbors around the area, they were looking at that fire hydrant. It was leaking quite a bit of
water. I know it's been resolved now, but there were a lot of neighbors. Yeah, we we we reached out and uh let them know that. So, uh yeah. Um, and since you're near there, uh, yeah, please please keep an
eye on that, uh, that fire hydrant because that's pretty expensive piece of equipment. Um, all right. So, um, Mallets and Morgan, was that the other one that you wanted an update on or no? Uh, Material Cabins. So, yeah. So, we um, so one of the big
projects I was going to do this year is build a deck in the back of Mater Cabin. So that's a 24x 24 ft deck with a handicap ramp because my plan is to do everything I can handicap uh accessible
because someday the town's going to say all new trails should be handicap accessible. So I want to get my boardwalks and decks and and whatever I'm doing handicap accessible so a modification doesn't happen at conservation.
So, has a handicap ramp, has stairs, there's going to be a new path out to the existing trail that leads out to Bear Meadow. We have it framed. We have a little bit of the uh itty bitty stuff like another screw
here, another screw there. Tighten up that uh joist hanger, things like that. Make sure it's bolted every 12 inches when it's going into the foundation. That kind of stuff needs to be looked at still. We have half the decking on and so you can go out there and you can see
just how big that's going to be and how awesome a space it's going to be for programming and for any visitors to that to the to the cabin. So just want to give you that update and I think it's pretty definite that we'll have it finished by this first week in August
which was what the plan was all along. Okay. Then on to approval of minutes. Um, we have not yet received the last two on here, the two June ones. So, we have the two May ones that we can approve. By the
way, for you newbies, the policy is you are strongly encouraged to read, review the minutes, and submit comments back to the transcriber. But when it comes to the meeting, um, we will be approving the minutes regardless
on the assumption that somebody will have read them and done a good job at finding things. And so basically, everybody should come prepared uh to vote affirmative, but ideally you've read and reviewed and submitted your comments.
Okay, having said that, uh, another thing about the minutes, uh, that everyone is under the impression that if you're not at that meeting, you can't approve the minutes. A minutes is an administrative action, and even if you're not at the meeting, you can vote to approve. You can also still choose
not to do it, but I just wanted to put that out there. Okay, so um, May 14th. Um, so the first thing I guess so, can I have a motion to uh approve the minutes
for May 14th? I'll I'll move to approve the minutes for May 14th. Walter Talz second. Is that working? Walter Talitz in favor. Michelle in favor.
Martha Moore in favor. Kio in favor. Brian Bow in favor. Okay. Um the next one is May 28th. Uh same thing. Uh can I have a motion to approve the minutes from May 28th?
I did read them. They just recently came out. I only found two mistakes and I sent them to Chuck and to the uh person typing up the minutes. Um I found one and sent it to the transcriber. Okay. So I move that we approve the
minutes from May 28th as amended. As amended. Walter Talbert seconds that Talbert's in favor. Martha Moore in favor. Tim Michelle in favor. Thank you in favor.
Ryan Bow in favor. Okay. Um so we are sending corrections back to the transcriber. Yes. Um, so as far as the June ones go, um,
so everybody is on the emails from Chuck's notes. So everybody would, well, did you all get copied on the on the May 28th? So is the list accurate? In other words, okay. So let's make sure that uh she uses the complete new list of uh
addresses. Okay. Okay. Um all right so having said that oh there was one last thing. Ah so next Tuesday
the select board will be considering um budgets. So, it would be great if people could show to support um there our budget requests. Uh
do you want to send out what was submitted so that new people can see? Yeah, I'll send out the sent in the end. Yeah, the last meeting I just did right logged off at that time. So, usually
what happens is that the that um you stand up at the podium and you present your budget and you take questions. So, I've done it in the past, but anyone can do it if they if they show up. I think we all want to be there to
I did it once. I might have just supported you, but I was there once. Remember my and still we had no budget finance. Okay. Well, I'll give you that. You get half a point. That's one. Okay. But I'll be there.
Okay. And that so that that's the next meeting. We'll we'll verify that when that agenda comes out. Um so what was the date on that again? The uh it's our next meeting. It's the I believe it's the 14th. I think you said the 14th. Yeah.
It might be the 15th because Tuesday is the 15th. Okay. There you go. Yeah. All right. So it'll be the 15th in this room. So they're and they're also talking about the um the Montasauri forest school on that date and we would probably want to be there also
supporting that because the conservation commission uh approved the use of the um bear meadow and the cabin and the pavilion and that's really taken off in the last couple of uh weeks. Uh Jane
Wellman and Matt Krenellis were um very helpful. uh left all the work up to me but uh but were very helpful guiding it and Melissa uh Murphy and Karen Herrick have also been very helpful. I think we
have at a point where they're going to give a presentation to the select board and uh town council is going to have their marching orders to kind of put a put a uh license agreement.
Okay, that's good. It'll be a good deal when it's done. It will be a good deal. Yeah, I think it'll it'll help out a lot. And um the the deck would be uh well utilized. I'm just trying to read that note, but
Okay. Yeah, I know. It's one of the problems. Uh oh, Moring Harold has entered the waiting room. So, that's what we've been waiting for. Yeah. Okay, then we can go back to um the
discussion item 15 Johanna. Okay. So, you want to start that up now? Yeah. Let's wait until Moren joins. She said it joined. She'll be able to turn on
Hi, Moren. Uh, can you let me know if you're able to share screen from where you're at? Yes, I should be able to share screen. All right. Uh, we're gonna start off. So, wait for Brian. I think you might do a little intro and then introduce yourself for the record.
Okay. Okay. Um so this is um a violation discussion. Um it was uh learned that there were some trees being cut that had not been permitted. Uh since then well actually
Martha and I went and uh had the tree company stopped their work. Uh since then the applicant the homeowner has been to a meeting. uh they have retained Moren Harold um to work up a restoration
plan which she's going to talk us through shortly. Um and so at at this point that's what we're considering is the restoration plan to handle the damage that was done by cutting of
unpermanented trees unpermanented cutting of trees. Having said that, Moren, can you please uh introduce yourself and give us an update? Sure. So, my name is Moren Herald. I work at North Environmental Services. I'm
working with the homeowner, uh, Gino Fedora regarding a restoration plan for the enforcement action. Um, I can bring in the plan if that works for the commission
and we can go over the site. Okay. Okay. Um, so this is the existing dwelling and the driveway. Um, as part of the restoration plan, I
flagged the resource areas. The resource areas, this B series is the bank of the perennial stream that's located offsite. Um, I flagged an A series for the bordering vegetated wetland. Um again
that is located offsite. However, the offsets of the 100 foot buff zone in the 200 foot riverfront area fall within the lot. Here is the 25 foot no disturb. The 35
foot setback that the commission likes to see um as well as the 100 foot buffer zone offset to the BVW. And this is the inner riparian zone. So, as you can see,
90% of the lot is within the inner riparian zone. When I flagged the resource areas, I also took a look at the tree cutting. Um, I noted three stumps in this species in the
field. And I can bring in my restoration plan and the table. Um, so here are the tree stumps that I noted as well as the four existing snags in their DBH.
Um, as well as any type of notes relative to them. So, one of the 18inch white oaks had a metal rod through the trunk. I think that was likely used as a clothesline from the previous owner.
One of the white oaks had a large gall at the base of the trunk. Um, there was a twin red maple tree which was split fairly low. I don't know, maybe six to seven feet up. Um, and the
remaining tree, one of the trunks was cut. So, the remaining tree showed a large amount of rot through it. Um, and I can show the commission on this page here. So, here are the existing DIM
trees that are now stacked. We have a large um gall at the base of this. We have this clothesline rod through this tree as well. Here's another view relative to the dwelling. So, as you can see, the
existing snags themselves are fairly close. They're approximately 30 feet from the dwelling. This is the uh maple tree, the twin, where one of them was cut. Um,
again, here's just another view of the existing snags. Um, and then here's the rot that I saw throughout the maple tree. Um, we are requesting the commission to allow this
maple tree to be cut given the close proximity to the dwelling. Um, I'm requesting the commission to allow the stags snags to be cut as well. Again, fairly close to the dwelling. Um,
in terms of Yes. So, the red maple tree with the rot on it, are we looking at mushrooms there? Is is that what I'm seeing? This is it looks like there's some sort of fungus in this location, but it was
certainly rot that I noted. Um, this is bark here, not a mushroom, but there there did it looked like there was some sort of fungus, certainly rot through the tree. Um, in terms of the restoration, we are
proposing a one:1 ratio um to the trees cut as well as six native shrubs we're proposing to plant. Um, I like to give the homeowners or any type of client list of native trees. Um,
so that there's some flexibility in case they go out and they can't find a red maple or sugar maple. There's a variety of native trees that I provided. So, we're proposing the trees to be four to six feet in height and a minimum a minimum of three different tree species
to be selected from this list below. In addition, we're proposing thick shrubs 3 to four feet in height. A minimum of two different shrub species shall be selected from the table below. If there is any deviations
from these lists, I specifically um direct that applicant, homeowner or contractor to contact um Chuck or the commission to approve the new species prior to any plant installation.
Lastly, I'm requesting the commission to allow the reestablishment of historical lawn on the property. The lawn does extend into where the trees were cut into the backyard. I provided the commission with some
photographs of the original home prior to the restoration and improvement of the home on the property and I can bring those pictures in. So, this is from uh I think it was Red Fin. I got these pictures. So, as you
can see, here's the porch in the original deck. The lawn did extend back into the property. Here's another view of the property itself. Again, showing the lawn um encroaching
towards the wetland area. And here's another photograph as well. We're not proposing to expand the lawn area, but we are requesting to restore what was there. Um it is also shown on the
engineered plan which I will bring in. So here is the proposed lawn area that we would like to restore. Um and in addition to that, we would like to construct a fence
um within the backyard area if possible as part of this enforcement. The benefits of installing um a fence is that it will prevent any type of future
intrusion into the resource areas into the no disturb setbacks. Um anybody whether this house becomes sold or rented anybody will clearly see this fence. Um and it just provides a
permanent demarcation. And that concludes my presentation. I'm happy to answer any questions or concerns the commission may have. Okay. Thank you. Uh any questions, comments from commission members?
Uh Martha, thanks. And I'm remembering to lower my hand again. Um thank you for this planting plan, Moren. I like the list of trees and shrubs you picked out. Um given that the
um majority of the trees that were removed were oaks, I'd really like to see at least some of the trees that are planted be one of those species of oaks, if not more than one species. Okay. Is that something you can ask the
homeowners to do? Sure. I I think that's reasonable. That's not a problem. Okay. because I think oaks are a very high value um habitat tree. Um I also have a copy of the plan that was
presented to the commission on January 4th of 2023. Um, and I'm questioning um why their 35 ft and 25 ft
lines are so much closer to the house than yours. They had the uh wetland boundary approximately where you have maybe the 50 foot line. So that's a good question. I was under
the impression, and Chuck, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that the resource areas weren't flagged at that time the plan was created. I know when I flagged in the field, I didn't see any flagging or
ribbon or or anything of that nature. So, maybe that's what the discrepancy is. Good point. It does say approximate on all of their lines. So maybe they did not go to the effort and expense of
getting somebody to actually flag them. Martha, if you remember what Giovani said at the time was that uh they did not ref, they use an older delineation. Okay. Um, so
I guess that's one question I would want the commission to discuss is whether we um accept Morin's new flags or whether we are concerned
about exactly where that wetland line is. I know you were talking about putting a fence, but we often mark once we have flags someplace, we put some of those granite bounds to mark where the actual 25 ft line is. So, I don't know
whether we would want to add granite bounds at your 25 foot line at least. Um, okay. And let me just refer to my notes for my other comments here. Sorry.
Give me a second. Um, nope. That's okay. Just just to highlight, um, Martha, that the fence is proposed at approximately the 25 foot. Um, if the commission finds that granite bounds is warranted, we could do that. We could put, I don't
know, maybe signage behind this area. Whatever the commission finds appropriate, we can do. Okay. Um, also on the original approval for this um, remodeling of this
property, there were supposed to be five shrubs planted in more or less the place where you're putting in the six shrubs for mitigation. And when I was there in April, I noticed that rather than planting five shrubs,
they had planted seven hostas. And those hostas were definitely inside the jurisdictional area, which means we would have preferred not to have hostas, but to have native shrubs. Um, so I'm
thinking that the certificate of compliance would have required them to put in five native shrubs. And if you're putting in these six as mitigation, we really ought to have more
like 11 than six. Okay. I mean, I don't think adding a few more shrubs is a big deal. Um, that's not a problem, but I do remember our discussion from I don't know if I was in front of the commission a month ago
regarding the hostas in le of the shrubs and you wanted the shrubs. So that's why I had incorporated the shrubs in the location. Right. Yeah. But um I I didn't want hostas. I wanted shrubs. Um Right.
Okay. And then um when Brian and I walked the property after these trees were cut down, it was April, so there was probably a lot less growth at that time, but we found more stumps. Um, and
I think there are two stumps outside where you're planning to put the fence um near where you're planning to plant the shrubs. There were two trees cut there and there were um a few more trees cut
in the backyard area near the words uh trees to be planted. Um there were um at least three stumps back there that we found that you don't seem to have found. So um it seems to me that more trees
were cut than are showing on your plan. Okay. So those were the stumps that I found. Um I absolutely could have missed some. Could the additional shrubs, the additional five to six shrubs, would
that cover any additional stumps I may have missed? Yeah. Um, that's a good question. Um, the stumps you may have missed were like only 4 in tall, so they may well have
been hiding in shrubbery in perennial. um herbaceous growth by the time you got there. Um would that have possibly have been a
shrub? 4 in uh is relatively small. My marks on my plan say they were 10 in or 8 in or 13 in diameter and cut down at 4 in tall. So it wasn't 4 in diameter, it was 4 in tall. They cut
them off short. And then the stumps you found, they left um one or two feet tall. Um so that was why they were easier for you to see those slightly taller stumps plus the snags. Okay. Does that make sense?
Yes. Yeah. Um so all right. So, by my count, they destroyed a total of 12 trees. And by
your count, it's more like five trees. Or I I don't know. Eight. Eight. Okay. You've got eight. I've got 12. Yeah. Or seven. You've got three stumps and
four snags. Seven. And then um one one maple tree, but we would like to cut down that maple tree. So I was I was counting eight and that and I was planning on planting eight trees.
Are the the the gray circles marked like T10, T16, T8? Are those all save staying? Yes. Okay. So, there are some trees back there and then you've spread out your
trees as best you can in the space where the trees were removed. Um, right. So, I was trying to space them out so that they weren't um right on top or right near the dwelling. Um, I didn't
want the future homeowner to have this issue in 25 years. Um, so I try to space it out appropriately. Yeah. And and I like that. And I like that you give the trees enough room to
grow. They're not going to be crowded once they get big. Um, so I guess what I'm thinking is given that I think there were 12 trees
destroyed between the stumps and the snags and you've counted eight, maybe we could put some more um shrub layer along the back fence area, the 25 ft line,
something like that in addition to the shrubs you're putting in along the stream. So, that's what I would propose, I guess, as a way to reconcile your count with my count. Okay. Oh, and there was at some point a large
pile of logs in the back area. Is that going to be removed? Yes, that will be removed and taken off site. So, we're not proposing to chip it on site or spread any wood chips or anything like this.
Okay. I think that's all my questions and comments. Okay. Any other questions, comments from commissioners? Walter. Yeah, the uh grass plan in the upper part of the picture, the northeast
side, it looks like you're putting the grass right up against the hundredyear flood plane. Yes, that's correct. That's historically where the lawn has always been and we would just like to
restore it. But we're also planting shrubs in here as well, as you can see. That was my question. Okay. Any other comments, questions?
Okay. Um, from my perspective, um, this came in a little bit late. Uh, I only saw the change in the, uh, in the flagging, uh, late this afternoon, and I
would like to not move forward on this tonight. I'd like to schedule a site visit to go out there and essentially review where the flags are because that is critical to where the fence would be and things like that. So I
think that's the first point we need to nail down is to understand how the line could be that different from uh what it was when we saw the original plan and we originally approved the plan. If it's a few feet that that'd
be one thing but this is a significant difference. So I would like to uh have a site visit to go look at it. That's fine. I'm more than happy to walk the site with the commission. That's not a problem. You want to review the flags? That's what I said.
Okay. Um Okay. So, um in in that case, uh well, one other comment um that I have is on the snags.
I would like you to leave one snag. cut it lower so it's around 12 feet so it's not a danger to the house but so we get some uh habitat out of it and then in the future if it becomes a problem or the other trees are growing in fine then
you could take it down but in the meantime let's try and get some habitat out of it Mr. Chairman, I'm a little bit concerned about that. Um, my understanding is a young family will be moving into this home uh with young children. Um, I
understand and appreciate the thought for habitat value, but I really prefer not to leave a snack. Um, I do not want a young child to be injured or killed because we left a 12-oot tall snack. I I
I just I I would prefer planting an extra tree or um I'm happy to compromise in any other way. We can put up bird boxes, but I'm satisfied with planting an extra tree.
Yeah. Okay. I don't I don't think a snag of a tree that was just cut is going to be uh any concern for a number of years. Um the kids out, but that's fine. I would take the extra tree. Yeah. I I'm just I
I'm just concerned about young children being injured. Yeah. Um so I'll talk to you ahead before we Sure. Um yeah, I'm concerned about your tree count. I see that you have a uh eight
trees and six shrubs. And depending on what's picked, the two shrubs for each tree removed would have to mature at 5 foot tall um to be counted for two. Otherwise, it would be four for each tree. But even
taking the eight trees and six shrubs and taking it at face value that there would be 5 foot tall at maturity that doesn't equal 12 trees. I'm going with Martha's count. She's usually
pretty good out in the field. He's like a southern hound dog out there when she's been good in the past. So, we're going to go with that count of 12. I'm also concerned about the fence and
uh where it ends up in proximity to the wetland. I'm hoping you can bring it up a little bit. And when I saw those pictures, it looked like the grass didn't extend to the back of the property or back uh where you have the fences, which I'm assuming is the back
of the property. And with kids and dogs, that's all going to get trampled and it's not going to be pristine habitat. And there's an opportunity to have something in front of that wetland. And I know that you stopped at the 25 foot line, but as I
understand it, we had to approve a fence for a dog right now. And so this all this area is going to be given up. I'm not asking for a lot. I'm just saying because we do allow fences out in this area, but if you could just move it up a
bit maybe in front of those two trees that you proposed uh planting and so from those two trees back would be, you know, fair quotes protected. Okay. I'm I'm more than happy to discuss
that with my client. Um so that's not a problem. And regarding the tree count, if we do a site visit, we can just verify our numbers. That's so that that'll work great for the site visit. Sure. And we'll just do we and then I
guess when it says the final count will have to be approved by the conservation commission or myself. I think that we would want to look at height at maturity and make sure that we get that correct. Okay. So this fence is uh you know one of the
stipulations you must know this that the fence needs to have uh an animal passage in it somewhere. Is that being thought about? No. Um like what what type of animal passage
are we talking about? Um I don't know a raccoon or a mouse. I don't know. Or a coyote. Oh yeah. Like coyote. Well coyotes jump. So that's not a problem. But um are you thinking about that somewhere? Because
that might be something to discuss at the site. It is in the regulations. It is I can't imagine that some other town hasn't asked you about that before. So maybe it's something to discuss in the future. The fans
show where the gates are. Yep. So that needs So I'm h Okay. Okay. So, show the gates. I'm happy to discuss that at the site visit, you know. Um, in terms of wildlife passage, I
think I'd have to gauge on um whether that's wildlife going under the fence or how the commission interprets that. I mean, the nice thing about a fence is you keep you keep your dog enclosed in your yard. Um, if there's a wildlife
passage, that doesn't happen. But I'm happy to discuss it with the commission to get some ideas. I don't know what kind of dog they have. Three and a half to four inches is what they they talk about. And you look at fences on like tomorrow, you'll notice
that there's a post and the rail in between them is usually above the ground anyway. So, it might not be that much of an ask at the end of the day. Um, I wanted to ask about the flood zone you're talking about.
um going up to it. Are you crossing it any way? Is any of that area beyond uh that line in the 100redyear flood been altered? Do you need to do restoration?
So, we are proposing some planting. So, here's if you can see my mouse. I'm worried about the planting. I'm worried about grading and bringing in top soil and adding uh or taking away
storage. So short answer is no. Um we are we are proposing to do some seeding. So I my memory is there was a stockpile of area
of uh logs and branches around this location give or take. So we would like to see that area to stabilize it. But in terms of bringing in lom or fill, we don't need to bring in loan. The loan's
existing. Um we're we're not proposing to fill or grade. It's fairly flat out there. So it's it's really not even necessary. So as I understand the plan anyways, it's that from that checkered line towards the river would be the flood
zone, not from the line and towards the property. Correct. So this is the flood zone here. It seems like the only thing you need to do out there is plant. Yes. And in the past, I've talked to FEMA and
they've said that planting is not considered uh fill. So, I won't consider it fill either. That was all. Okay. Something you want to add?
Yeah, I'm looking at so these plantings in the upper part of the diagram are within 25 foot if I'm looking at this the bottom line correctly.
Are we over here or up there? Yes. So this is the 25 foot. It shows up as a faint um purplish color here. Okay. So, this is all 25 foot and we're putting plantings into it. Sure.
Yes. It essentially will be restoring it because um some of it was lawn. So, this area here was lawn and if the commission allows the fence, this area will naturalize and come back. My concern is more about the lawn
actually. Um, it's human nature to make the lawn as close as possible and lawns get fertilized and have all kinds of chemicals and stuff put on them. I'm just worried about that happening within the 35 foot
where 25 is our buffer distance 10t is no structure. But so as as long as they keep natural the first 25 ft and as long as there's bounds markers or something so they
don't mow in there they don't do things in there then that's protecting the 25 ft. My point is the lawn is breaking into the 25 foot. Where's that? What did I just do?
I don't know. Oh my gosh. the historical line for the water. So, I was going to tell you that um I see Gio's trying to enter the meeting and speak. He has something to say. Brian, just give me a minute to get back into
my computer. Gio, if you can hear me, we'll be with you shortly. Hopefully where we have the six shrubs to be planted. They are within the 25 foot. So Moren, you're sharing the screen,
right? You did you take that down or did I do that to you? No, you did it, but I can bring it back up. Okay. Thanks. Sorry. Okay. All right. So, the shrubs here are the shrubs
and then the green line penetrates the 25 foot line. So, the green line shows the approximate historical lawn that was there. And this is the 25 foot this purple line.
I guess what I'm saying is I don't think we want grass in 25 foot line for the risk of being fertilized or dug. So I agree that there should not be grass in the 25 ft closest to the wet closest to the flats
the grass. So, we're not proposing that. This this line here with the squares in the line, that's the proposed fence in this area of plantings and lawn. Um, we're removing the lawn from this
location and it's going to be plantings and if the commission allows the fence, then everything beyond the fence will be naturalized. No, I get it. I I think it was just uh misleading because you had the hatching out there and it showed the historical
lawn. Okay. Boundary and so as long as it's clear that it won't be beyond the 25 ft wherever that is. Well, let's make it clear. Can we note the plan? Go ahead, W. Yeah. Can we make the green line the way the lawn is going to be?
Yeah, that's a good idea. Or note the plan that this is uh to remain natural. in this area here. Sure. All right. What else? Tree protection
shields. Yeah. Uh, so can we ask Gio, are you with us yet? You can unmute if you're listening. Are we uh see? Can Can anybody hear me now? Yes.
Okay. So, we are we trying to say we we're not able to approve this tonight because I have a family inside this house that is going to have a baby. Uh, and you know, in a few more weeks and and he was hoping that we could get this
done before the baby was born. So, we just got the material. Yeah. I mean, uh, so I understand your concern, but we got the material just a short time ago and the differences in the flagging is is big enough that we
really have to go take a look at it. So, so if we meet on on site, can can we see if we could prove it on site and and and we could start the next day if possible? Well, we can only approve things. We
only can deliberate in a in a public meeting, an open meeting. Um, and so, uh, no. Uh, we would have to go to the next meeting. I'm also wondering whether you really
want to be planting trees in the 1st of August because that's generally a pretty dry time of year and it takes a lot of watering and it might be better to um
approve it over the summer and actually do the planting in September. We could we could do that. And did you see the the chat from the occupant, Brian? No, I did not. Yeah, the occupant would like to be able
to unmute and be able to be called on. Okay. Um, so before we do that though, Gio, are you set with your questions, comments? No. Yeah. No, I'm fine. I'm fine with everything else. Yes.
Okay. Um, Chuck, can you Yeah. What's the applicant name? Sterling. Okay, I get it. Spearing. Oh, there we go. Hello. I appreciate
Can you introduce yourself, please? Yeah, of course. Uh, my name is Michael Spearing. Um I'm the current occupant at 50 Joiner Drive um with my wife Lauren. Um we are um we just moved in about a month ago. Um we've been working with Gino to try and get this resolved um
since then. And so what I just really wanted to add here is that um like Gino called out, we're expecting a child in about two weeks and so time is really the essence here for us. the the thing that we are really concerned about is that we have this kind of pile of debris
that's just been in the yard continuously. And so even if we do have to come on site to do a site visit to redetermine what that line is for the fence to be put in, is it possible to move forward with the work of removing
that debris so that it's just more kept in the backyard there in the interim or do we have to do all this together as one approval? Um, one thing I just would like to add is that the erosion controls are already
installed on the property. Um, and if the commission will allow us to move the snags in that one red maple tree with rot, we could possibly remove those snags, the tree, and get the
debris off the property and then work out the details in terms of the number of trees to plant and shrubs. Well, that that that request just expanded. I I I heard from Michael that you wanted the pile of debris removed
and now it's gone to cutting down the snags and and another and another tree. Well, I was just thinking a newborn baby and tree cutters make an awful lot of noise. So, I was really stating it for um the
family to prevent that. That is main concern. Um, rephrased much more nicely. Meen, my wife is actually sitting next to me and agreed as you were saying that if the commission could consider that proposal.
Yeah, I'm thinking about it. Um, I also have concerns. I talked about Mission Creek, but um erosion is in so if the line moves. So there's no no fence or anything yet.
Mhm. Um, I can't think of a good reason not to other than I hate peacemail approvals. See, the thing that bothers me is that the core of this whole thing is getting the flags right. Everything is
predicated from there. where the flags are is going to have something to do with where the fence is. Well, just after I think that you're you're pretty good. So, what I would say is the the bar is pretty high because if
you approve if you allow this to happen within before we approve, then anyone else who wants the same accommodation would have to have a baby. All right. And I do know one of the easier things to do to try
and get around. But it is one of the problems we have is that we do have to think about precedent. Um, and there are times that we're living in the gray as it is, but this seems pretty far over again because the
core thing that got our attention is the big move in the weapon line, you know, and that's that's where we always start. We start with where the weather it's a it's a it's a compromised tree and the snags, right? So, they're not really I don't think that anyone's gonna
want the snags in this area. I don't think they're if you ask me, I don't think the commission's going there saving a tree within the play. I think I already said that the snags went down and the only other one is that dead tree and the pile of brush
or that's what I'm hearing is what's being asked. You could ask others. We have members. You can just find out like what what is what is what does Rick think since you're an expert in tree cutting? Yeah, Rick want chime in. Give me a
break. Is it okay to possibly give a an approval to pass on my approval to Brian and Martha make that determination on a site visit? I don't think so. I mean there are some things for example there are some things
for example that we can authorize Chuck as administrator to finalize but as far as something where the wetland line itself is in question that's too fundamental you know
but fortunately the trees and the debris are not located close to the wetland line and it's just the removal. Yeah, Martha, what do you want to say? Um, yeah, I was going to say I think
we are very close to agreement on the planting plan and I think we should maybe check with the other members of the commission, but I think it makes sense to have them be able to
take the snags down now and then we do the wetland line determination and finalize the planting plan a at our next meeting. I think
that's a reasonable thing to do assuming they can get the tree cutters out there within the next two weeks. Who knows if they'll be able to come. But I don't see a reason to hold up the tree cutting cuz I think, you know, in my opinion, we're
going to let them cut down the snags and cut down the compromised red maple. So, um I think we could let them do that part while we hammer out the final details between the eight trees and the
12 trees question and the wetland line. Okay, you convinced me. Um but maybe check with Tim and Walter. I haven't heard from them. Thank you.
Do any of you three named individuals have comments or questions? I'm fine with that. I'd be in favor of removing the snags and getting rid of the crap on the ground. Yeah, I would agree with that as well. Um I guess one follow-up question would be how would that be handled in terms of
like order of conditions? Like are is it a partial vote for you guys now on the snags or how is that handled for the future meeting? Oh, you just an approval by the commission. You can vote on it, too, but
I'm back. We would vote to approve the three actions we just talked about, but there wouldn't be any final vote on the uh project itself. The three actions would be removing the
debris, cutting the one dead tree, and cutting the four snags. Okay. And then I guess one other clarification point, Brian, would be, you know, for future precedent. How far in advance do these requests need to be made so we don't run into a similar
situation where we're two weeks out from the birth of a child for the occupant? How is that typically handled? Yeah, documentation has to be in a certain period of time before a meeting. There's no requirements for, you know,
farther back than that, no less for the full gestation period. So, we don't have anything like that. And we don't typically have a need for that. Okay. So, it's within that 48 hours of posting effectively. Uh, no. So things are supposed to be
posted supposed to be submitted to the u the coordinator uh the Thursday before our meeting. Okay. So at 5:00 pm the Thursday before is when the deadline is for the things to be considered in the next meeting.
Um get that right. I I'm sorry. I was looking up. Um so this is an enforcement order that we're working through. So Joe, the the practice would be that we could just update as a commission the enforcement
order to allow these certain steps, but then to enforce what else we need, which is a plan. A plan. Plan. Yeah. Let me see if I can talk at some point.
Boy, this is your problem. Yeah. So we have uh the plan and the site visit and um and another meeting to discuss all this. So that date of the next meeting could be put on the enforcement order and allowing these
actions also. And so we can just incrementally kind of release it or tighten it up because we're we're in control. It's not uh uh an enforcement order can't go and be appealed. It's up
to the commission and it's usually standard to keep projects within an enforcement order because the commission has the most control over such such things. I didn't hear your other question about when can things come up. Uh but I would like to say that the
conservation commission has um authority uh through their um the fact that they're on the commission and they've been uh sworn in to interpret the regulations as they see fit. Okay?
Just remembering that they're here to protect the wetland and the environment as it says in the wetlands protection act. so they can make this change and accommodate somebody's request that night if it makes sense.
We try to as commissions to try to tie it to something so that everyone if if it's like this oneoff thing like this is and we don't usually approve things in the middle of a a negotiation because if
um the applicant never came back it it becomes really tough and but in this case um like I said I I think there's a reason to move forward. It's not likely a reason that someone else would have in the future. Uh, and
if they did, it would be another good reason to uh to make an accommodation. So, I think that's why we're here. Okay. I'm I'm good with the comments that Brian and Martha have stated as well. Okay. Then,
um, why don't we vote to approve those three actions? And can you give me some direction on the updated enforcement order? um such as bring them to the next meeting. Right. So definitely come to the next meeting um
with an updated with an updated plan plans. Yeah. Yeah. And ideally that will have any update or confirmation of the wetland flags as a part of it part of it. Yeah.
Um and uh uh Morin needs to attend the site visit. Yes. And uh I don't think we have final agreement on uh some of the planting details. For example, the shrubs bushes
versus the hostas. I think that's still an open uh conversation. Um and you're allowing the removal of the snags. Yes, that one maple and and the debris and the debris falling debris is on the
ground or cut debris on the ground. I think that's it. And like no no no chipping on site and all that stuff. Everything's removed. Martha, is your hand up? Yes. Um, normally we would do our site
visit on the Monday before our next meeting, which would make it July 21st. Um, does Moren have to get do we need to have the site visit sooner than that if Moren has to get her things in the
Thursday before the next meeting? Yeah. Or can Moren make her plan and submit it and then we go on the site visit? No, I think we have to go on a site visit first because the
review of the flags will be pertinent to updating the plan. Okay. So that Monday anyways, Simon's way. Which Monday? The 21st.
Right. But our next meeting is the 23rd is the Monday. Yeah, Monday is the 21st. We have a very lengthy site visit at Simon's Way on the 21st. So, it would be better to have this before. Okay. So, so why don't we see if we can
schedule a site visit um in the next week? Um, I don't I know it's a tough time for vacations and everything, but um um Martha, when are you back?
Um, no, actually, don't answer that. Um yeah, I'm just looking at my schedule and thinking that um probably Wednesday morning the 16th I could do a site visit or Thursday the
17th. Would either of those days work for Morin? Yes, I could do either of those also. Um the 17th I would have to do in the morning. I have a 1 or 1:30 site visit in Danvers, but I can do anytime on the
16th. So Martha, do you want to aim for 8:30? 8 a.m. 15th. Which which day? That's Thursday. What the time first? So we want to go at 8:30. Is that okay with you? 8:30 on
8:30 works for me on either the 16th or the 17th. Okay. Does that work for you? 17th. 16th doesn't Okay. The 17th is better. Does either one work for you, Tim? Does either one of those? Well, does Thursday the 17th at 8:30 work for you?
I can say yes now, but yeah, it changes dayto day. So, I'll say yes and then until it doesn't. Okay. Yeah, the least is possible. So, yes, I'll be in town. Okay. So, Maren and others, let's schedule it for 8:30 Thursday the 17th.
Okay. All right. Okay. Having said that, I think we're done with this for the evening. Well, I just want to thank the com commission for your flexibility and allowing the tree debris and the snags to be removed. I I really do appreciate
that and um look forward to seeing you on the 17th. Okay. Can you give us notice on when the trees are going to be cut down? Um, sure. Maybe the day before would be great. And if it's not Friday, Saturday, Sunday,
something like that. Can you make sure we get that information on Thursday because we're not I can do that. Thank you. My good. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Have a good night. Good night. Thank you. Thank you all.
We're about done. Do you folks want take the chance to say anything? We can have a quick public comment period. Okay. I'm all right. Long long night. Oh, not for us. This is this is good. Um
so on that note, um can I have a motion to adjourn at 9:04? Oh. Oh, hang on. Um I was going to go over uh 420 Hel Street. I talked to you about it. Yeah, it works completely outside the 100 bud. It doesn't need to be talked about.
I approve in absencia. Okay. So, on that note, have a motion to adjourn at 9:05. So moved by Martha Moore. Seconded by Walter. All in favor? I.
You're allowed to second things. A motion. No, I was following the order. Doesn't have to be mine every time. Although it's easier when you're doing the minutes because you just cut and paste. All right. So, we're all set. Do we All right. Thanks for sitting through us.
Light still green. Yeah, maybe they're on one. I told you