president of the United States who call that terrorist highest level. But it comes as Tatar is pulling out all the stops for Trump's first visit as That's Recording in progress. Okay, we should be good to go.
Thanks. Hello everyone. This is Chuck Terrone, conservation administrator um for the town of Reading. This meeting is being conducted in person and remote format consistent with chapter two of the acts of 2025 which further extend CO 19 measures regarding remote
participation in a public meeting until June 30th 2027. I'll do my best but uh why don't you move up front? It might help. Please note that all items listed may be in fact uh discussed and other items not
listed may be brought up for discussion to the extent permitted by law. This agenda includes those matters which can be reasonably anticipated to be discussed at tonight's meeting. Please note this meeting is being recorded. all materials for this meeting available at
the following link which I'll provide in the chat after Brian uh introduces himself and the commission and uh Brian Bo our uh commission chair will facilitate this meeting. Please note that there will be a public comment period at the end of each hearing. Each vote will be taken by
roll call. We begin with roll call attendance. Brian, can you review the agenda and do the roll call attendance? Chuck, I can. Can you uh check the screen? It was not focused on you. Okay. All right. So, first I'll do a
quick review of the agenda. Uh we're starting off with a um presentation from the Malbury Forest Monuri School. Um and then we have a continuation of a hearing for 119 Winthrop Avenue on a notice of
intent. Uh we then have three hearings that have been um continued continued at the applicant's request. Uh those are um 288 Grove Street, 885 Main Street, and
695 Pearl Street. All continued at the applicant's request. The next one will be 269 Main Street, opening a public hearing on request for determination. Um, and that's it for new hearings. Then we get to old new business. We have a
fair number of items and then some discussion items. Having said that, we'll do uh roll call and this is the order we will vote in when we get to that point. Um, Walter Walter Talbot, commissioner
present. Tim Tim Michelle member present. Martha Moore, vice chair present. Brian Bro, chair present. Okay. Um, we're going to get to 269 later. You heard where it was in the list, but just
to say it up front the first time on how we're going to handle comment. Um, please try not to repeat what somebody else has said for the interest of time and what have you. Um, try and stay focused on the topic at hand. Um, and we
will be timing people. We're going to shoot to be couple three minutes per person at the most. Otherwise, this could extend for a long period of time. Okay. No, I can say yes. Thank you. Yes. Okay. Um with that then we can go to the
first hearing which is um the Malbury Forest Monastery School and we have Mary on the line. Mary, can you introduce yourself for the record? And uh I guess the f best thing to do would be just start in with the presentation. Sure.
Thank you so much for having me. And I I have my co my co-founder here, Dr. Emory Fast, if you'd like to say hello. Um should I share my screen to show a presentation? You sure you have permission to share your screen? Is uh
is your co-founder? Is she signed in separately or is she sitting next to you? She's signed in separately. So, I can see her there, but she's off camera. So, maybe hopefully she'll come back in a moment. What's her name again? Ann Marie F. I can't turn on audio or video. Yeah, I
see Marie. So, maybe that's it. Let me see. I want to help everyone stay on time. Okay, wait. and then I'm gonna full screen so you can see it properly and I will stick to my time a
lot. Thank you. Yes, of course. All right. Oops. Back to the start. All right. So, good evening everyone. Thank you so much for having us at this meeting tonight and for allowing us to present about our program. My name is
Dr. Mary Gerana Saba. I am a geographer and a filmmaker and an educator and the co-founder of Malbury Forest Monttoauri. There is Anmarie, Dr. Amarie Faustst, a biologist and researcher and our program's co-founder. So, I'll just
start off by telling you a little bit about the program and our mission and our values. Malberry Forest School is focused around three key principles. The first one is land stewardship. So it says here, we teach children to care for and steward the land, plants, and each
other from a very young age, fostering citizens with a lifelong commitment to nature and our environment. Accessibility, highquality education should be accessible to all, as should the outdoors. Community care, understanding the ways that we are all interconnected, grounds children's
inherent cur curiosity in a commitment to positively impact where we live while caring for the land, themselves, and each other. and Montasauri education which with its personalized and child-led focus is a rigorous educational approach that also teaches
children to be connected members of a community. So we there we go. Uh this is the sort of overview. We would love to enter into a mutually supportive collaborative relationship with the conservation commission. Uh we are
proposing the possibility of locating our school on conservation land in the 2025 2026 school year at and around Mata Cabin. And I'll get into a little bit of our asks um in a in a moment and we
would of course in in response because we we believe that we have overlapping values as an outdoor school that is about fostering care and land stewardship. We would of course proactively collaborate with the commission uh do things like work days
at the cabin, take care of the land around it and and make a donation to the conservation commission fund. So what would this look like? Some details. Mutual support. So what are the ways in which we have imagined we can support the conservation commission's goals? I
see that there's a small typo. Sorry about that. I'll fix it. Uh the first one is through our yearly donation to the conservation commission fund. The second is we'd love to organize a friends of matera cabin group to organize and participate in work days.
This the third is that we would maintain a presence in and around the conservation area and then that would just sort of generally keep the the space safer and deter hunters. Uh we could also educate visitors about conservation areas and about the reasons not to walk dogs on conservation land.
We could identify and remove invasive species plants from around the land which is something our program is now in its third year. That's something our children, three and fiveyear-olds are are excellent at. It's really exciting. And uh, of course, we would record any
land or facilities issues on the land. And we could organize regular land stewardship education sessions and and whatever other supports that the the commission deemed appropriate. So, what is this going to look like? What are we proposing? We would be a regular school following the
public school calendar. We operate from 8:30 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. Monday through Friday. Our program is entirely outdoors year round. We will work and explore in the areas around the p the the Matera cabin and the pavilion. And of course,
we will be mindful of children's impact on the land and relocate our classroom areas regularly like our classroom outdoors a in order on in convers conservation with the commission to minimize our impact on the land. So, our outdoor classroom asks because we will
be primarily outdoors is that we would like to be able to use temporary pop-up or canopy tents and addition to using the pavilion at times when when it's available. And we would also ideally like to install some kind of a outdoor sink for uh children to be able to wash
their hands to minimize traffic to the bathroom. And that could be, you know, a temporary thing or or something that's more more like uh installed. And just to make sure I am staying on time, uh our asks would be
because Montasauri pedagogy relies on natural materials and things that children can access, we would ask for accessible storage shelving. And we would like to place lockable storage cabinets inside the cabin so that children could kind of go in and out or the educator go in and out and bring
cabin and bring materials to work outdoors uh when when they're doing outdoor outdoor education or outdoor work. And we would request non-exclusive daily use of the restroom facilities in the cabin during the school day. We would also ask for indoor use of
the cabin, kind of extending our original plan to be primarily outdoors. In the winter, we're still mostly outdoors, but when it's very cold, it's good to have some the possibility to retreat indoors to some heated area. So, during inclement weather or the winter months when it's quite cold, we would
like to be able to kind of come in and out and um sort of operate like inside the spaces of the cabin in in in tandem with our outdoor use. And so our indoor needs would include just us bringing in some small mobile furniture, floor cushions, small tables. And for cleaning
and upkeep, we would regularly clean the cabin after our use and and thoroughly at the end of each week to prepare it for any weekend users. Um proactive solutions. We are used to coordinating space with other
with other people. We're used to being good neighbors as as a program. And so that is our priority is to create a good relationship with all of the youth of the cabin and and the conservation area and the and the community garden as well. So for parking, most of our
students will be dropped off in the morning and picked up. A small number of staff cars would remain on site and we will of course direct anyone who wants to stay all day to park elsewhere because we know that it's a small parking lot and that it's very important to navigate usage. Uh also for the
pavilion similarly uh if if there are other users we would agree upon time frames that we would use it where it would be sort of less in use so that we weren't like preventing other people from using public space. And for other cabin users we would want to coordinate
ahead of time to know who else was going to be there and when so that we could kind of proactively create a contingency plan ourselves. And just in general for problem solving, we anticipate proactively coordinating with the conservation commission coordinator and
other parties just to minimize conflict and to just really proactively seek a good positive relationship um with everyone involved. That's the presentation and I believe that most people have and and the commission have had a different version
of the same version but in a different format of this presentation distributed to you before the meeting but I'm happy to make this available to everybody and for further discussion and I would love to take any questions and thoughts. It would be great if you could pass that
through to us through through Chuck. Absolutely. We'll send that one along. Exactly. Thank you. Okay. Anybody in the commission have questions, comments? What number of students are you expecting to have in your program and
what age? Our program is uh 3 to 12. So, we have a primary classroom and an elementary classroom. They're two separate classrooms. Um but by classrooms, we just mean like group together. And to be
honest with you, I'm not sure what the anticipated number will be for the for September because we're a newish program. We we were a sort of homeschool co-op that is becoming a regular program. And so we anticipate I would say up to 20 is what
we've been saying, but we anticipate probably much less this this coming year. And have you looked into the um state regulations of square footage of classroom per student given that you're planning to spend some of your time
indoors? Absolutely. So for nature-based programs where you will be 50% outdoors or more, there's actually no regulation around indoor use. You just need emergency emergency shelter. And we fully plan to be licensed by EEC. And
I've already sort of I've already begun that process. by early education and care for people who don't know that acronym. So really no limitations on how many kids you could squeeze into Matera cabin based on EEC's regulations.
There aren't isn't that it's quite interesting that they've made that sort of regulation around nature-based programs. But it's because a lot of programs the the sort of different naturebased schools asked the state to be able to operate without any access to indoor space. And actually our program
until now has has not we've operated entirely outdoors since 2022. Um, and you were talking about installing some small children-sized furniture in Matara Cabin. What do you envision would happen to that furniture
if the cabin was rented out for other uses when you're not there? Yeah, I'm not sure that we actually will in it's a possibility of of bringing in some furniture and I think that anything that we would bring in we would just anticipate would also be used by other
users and that would be fine with us. The only thing that we would like exclusive use of is this storage space for the materials which we think the best way to do that is to put lockable cabins um cabinets so that the ch so for
the children's pedagogical materials but apart from that if we did bring in any furniture which we're still deciding about that we would it would be open to everyone's use. Okay. And poison ivy there is poison ivy on the property. How
do you anticipate dealing with that? Our children are really good at identifying poison ivy and other kinds of um plants that they shouldn't touch and the ones that they should touch like um like they you know pull out the garlic mustard
and and so that it's it's primarily through education that we anticipate um navigating that. Okay, that's all my questions. Yeah. Okay. What is the ratio of adults to children?
We will maintain a 10 to1 at maximum ratio of adults to children and it will probably be higher. And how do we handle health care emergencies or boooos whatever? So we will have a um a physician on call
on our team. My sister is actually a physician at Cambridge Health Alliance and so she's on And uh we you know generally like another like any other program we'll create a sort of emergency uh response
plan that we'll present to you and also to the school committee when we go forward. So if there's an emergency, the adults would still stay on site and the child would be escorted elsewhere.
If there were an emergency that required children to be uh taken to a hospital, then yes. And the the good thing about this program is that we sort of have, you know, parent volunteers who have been interested who who sometimes come and because they're so interested in
what we're doing, we have some folks who come from New Hampshire, for example, and so they just stay most of the day. So we would create a contingency plan that made sure that we would always have enough adults around in case somebody had to accompany a child to for a medical emergency. And we would of
course immediately inform the child's parents. Would there be any like first aid kits on site? Absolutely. All of our instructors are first aid and CPR trained, EpiPens, etc. Yes. For any child who requires an EpiPen, there
would be an EpiPen on site. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Yes. That's it. Um, one thing I want to uh mention, uh, you briefly mentioned hunters. Um, I
hope you've talked to Chuck about hunting there. There are some times of the year in some areas where bow hunting is allowed. So, just obvious want to be aware of those two things. Um, when it comes to a
commitment, are you hoping to get a multi-year commitment? Could just be a commit to one year and then see how it goes from both perspectives? Yeah, we'd like to see if we could do one year and a pilot year and see how it goes from
both perspectives, that's to say. Okay. Um, you know the site, you're aware we have the pavilion up the hill. Yes. That's another thing you could work into your plans. If it's, you know, slight drizzle inclement but not pouring,
perhaps you could do things there. Still keep the kids outdoors. Um but not be in the pouring rain. Totally work that in. Um as far as the sink you mentioned, uh
again in line with the idea of trying it for a year, um would something like a camping sink be sufficient for at least the first year? Is that Yes, that means your needs. Yes, we'd be happy to. That's what we've been doing right now.
I, you know, I I the idea of installing an outdoor sink is just that if that were of interest to the conservation commission in general because it can just be a good thing to have a work sink outside for when there's work being done around the like around the cabin and that we'd be happy to sort of take that
cost on ourselves. But yes, of course, we we have been using a camping sink and we would be happy to continue doing that. Okay. Um, so are you anticipating there would need to be any changes, renovations to
the building at all? There's two exits, entrances, there's exit lighting. Is there anything else you can think of? Um, you're satisfied with fire extinguishers and things of that nature. Fantastic. No, I don't. We're especially
as a pilot project, we're sort of hoping to use the cabin as is, leave the cabin as kind of with a leave no trace as much as it can apply to an indoor space. That's sort of our motto. And obviously we can talk about that more as this moves forward. Anyway, so the last thing
you should be aware of, and this is vital, Chuck and I both have tremendous experience at parking cars up there. uh for Porchfest we actually got 38 cars in. So a small fee to the conservation fund we can explain to you how to do
that. Will you work as valet also in the morning? Chuck might I'm too busy. Uh talk to you. Any questions? uh uh only to say that the nature-based classroom is uh a perfect fit for the
Matiraa area and the conservation complex that's out there, moving the kids around and uh utilizing different spots and you know stewarding our land for us is a big plus. I don't see much
use uh at Matira Cabin in the morning until after school. So I don't think this would conflict with um you know programming that the recreation department has and as we all know recal
was just approved. So that's all going to change. Maybe no more programming from the rec at material cabin in a couple of years. So, um the space is uh wide open. There's parking. There's a
pavilion. There's uh a uh rain collection system and outdoor spickets. And um I I think that this is uh worth exploring, but again I don't I don't
know what the select board uh would say, but I but I do notice that we do have a select board member here. So um I just want to say that uh this came to Arlington also and this came I don't know if it actually got to
Burlington, but it also was discussed in Andover. So it is a school that's committed to partner up with conservation. So hopefully and all of those weren't nos there. The the issue
in Arlington I believe was um the bathroom issue and um it never really formalized. I don't know what happened in the other towns but but certainly um you know the naturebased classroom you know is
something that conservation believes in and this is an opportunity to kind of uh you know really help out with that. So with that I don't know if um Karen wants to say something. I don't you I don't know if the st the podium's in the right spot but if you could at least stand up
and uh and introduce yourself for the record that would be great. I'm Karen Har and um thank you um for allowing me to speak and and thank you. I just want to thank the conservation commission for um entertaining um this kind of proposal and and listening to
what Mary has to say. Um, you know, I think I share a concern with other people in town and I don't know if it's all of you that that Mater is such an important asset and and I I think it's underutilized. I would love to see it utilized more. So, in listening to what
Mary had to say, I'd never heard of a program like this, but um seeing this presentation, it it it seems like it would have a good synergy with what you all need and in in times when
um budgets are getting tighter, so making our dollars, tax dollars go further. Um, and I'm glad you asked about parking and um, so that that's great to hear. 38. Um, I do have a little experience negotiating with a a a
larger child care operation opening up locally um, over on summer. And so we had these discussions about and I can tell you that program's larger. And so we had discussions about them maybe needing like six staff positions during
the day and you know and then there's the coming time. So I mean I think I think you know based on your slides that's an important consideration. We are select as speaking for the what I've heard as a select board member we're having challenges over by Austin Prep there are students more and more
students with PARs parking our residential neighborhoods and and making the neighbors unhappy. So, while I saw on the slide it said certain people could park elsewhere, you know, that's that's something I could see that we just want to all be comfortable that if the site can accommodate it or the other
bare metal parking area could accommodate what they need. Terrific. Because it's on a busy main street, parking elsewhere might be a little just be something to discuss as you pursue this further. So, I just want to thank you all for and thank you Mary. This is
um really interesting program. Thanks. Thank you so much for that very kind and supportive comment. One thing we should definitely be planning is some communication to people who walk in there um so we can get their
feedback so they can be prepared to perhaps go in the Pearl Street entrance or something. But either way, we should be letting people know that this is even moving down the pike or whatever, right? and we're happy to help with that in
whatever way. And I'll just say we've been in several different conservation areas. The main question for us was just trying to access indoor space because this past winter was just so cold and and we're we are very good neighbors. Um the children make friends with all the
people that they see that are regulars in like you know we we'd been at Whip Hill in Stoneham for a couple of years and we have all our friends up there that we that we now miss. So what are you thinking next steps might be from
your perspective? I guess next steps we would wait to see if you guys were, you know, if if the conser if the commission approves this and then to see what the next steps are sort of in terms of creating a written agreement I suppose for one year
and that would be I think primarily what we were thinking and then just whatever feedback you had. So, um, is it sufficient for us to vote that we're interested? Is that enough of a positive feedback for you to begin
thinking about the next step or would you actually look for a full commitment at this point? I think it depends on so you know ideally we would love to know as sooner than later what what the fall will look
like and so you know we but we respect your democratic process. Okay cool. Um yeah I think one note sorry if I can just make one note um there are certain things for for us to move forward with getting the school up and running that require us to have kind
of a signed agreement. So that like I think that's where we're thinking about if at some point whenever everyone is comfortable if we could have something in writing I think that that would help move our process along as well. Thank you. So as far as that commitment that
there's no way I think at this point what we know so far that's why I was wondering what you will hopefully get what you were looking for. Um but at this point uh we can decide that it's worth pursuing and take it from there. Walter, you want to say something? Just
in general, what is our risk as the conservation commission for the Matera cabin? If something goes wrong, people get hurt, disaster happens, what's the insurance or Yeah. So all those questions, this would obviously have to go in front of town
council and the select board and it would go up. Uh my suggestion is I came in tonight to present this project. I want to know what the commission needs to be added to the presentation. Seems like we need to know parking, maybe
class sizes. Even though there's no limit on children for outdoor uh events or teaching events, we're going to have certainly a limit and we want to place a limit on how many kids would be at Matira. I think we also would want some
idea at least of the bare bones of um I'm going to call it a maintenance plan, but basically how would you plan on cleaning up if you were using it indoors? Um how would you determine when it's time to move on to the next temporary site? Just some idea of the
thinking so we can contribute to that if we need to. That sounds great. Yeah. And I'll say we have full liability insurance right now that covers us and so that will continue and then we've uh we add uh the town as a as a lency or I suppose you
call it a lency is covered under the law and the conservation commission as well and the cabin as well. Okay. And that obviously would get feedback from town council on details like that. You want to say something? I just think this has to um the presentation has to
be elevated and um it also has to be all about mater. So anything that we're uh that we're talking about could be mater specific and we come up with all the questions and they're answered.
How much parking are we going to allow permanently? How many uh how many students? How often they can be in each spot? uh any limitations that we want to put on it. Um the outdoor sink, I don't know where that could go or if that's
going to cause problems. I I was going to ask how does how does that work in the winter time? But um so I I guess for me I would I would want all
those questions answered, maybe have something closer to being formalized and then have this go in front of the select board. And I hope that um Aaron can help us with that and uh see what they think. So another thing
that I'd like you to think about and put something on paper are ideas of how to incorporate the terror bare metal to some extent in particular not just being in trees for example we are undertaking
some replanting or what have you the meadow itself perhaps there's an area that the school could adopt the kids could plant and water and and see the cycle Right. So something like that if you give some thought to ways to take
advantage of what the area offers rather than just what your I want to use the word generic but your generic curriculum would be and that is a very important at the door there there's a sign in sheet. Go ahead. Um, oh, I was just going to say that
this is exactly the kind of feedback that own conversation that we would want to have with the with all of you to be able to figure out ex in fact how to adopt how to have our emergent curriculum they call it respond to the environment that we're in. So that's
that's a really wonderful example. No, that's great. Um, so just want to take a quick poll. Um, is everybody in favor of pursuing this? As vague as pursuing means I mean
just do we need a motion or are you just getting a I don't think we straw the straw pole. I wouldn't use that term for sure. Just an idea everybody. Strong worth exploring as far as I'm concerned. Okay. Same. Good. All right. So then if
you could do some of the things we talked about on our end, we can maybe explore uh what steps we might have to take on this end. What date would you need a final commitment by?
I suppose if we had a final commitment before the end of June, that would be important. And the sooner the better to be honest. Sure. Well, it's good to dream.
Okay. Um, no, that's good to know. I think at this point we could be set with you. I appreciate you coming in and giving us the board. Maybe ask Karen that. Oh. Uh, Karen. Um, how would this go in
front of the select board? this have to be accepted by the conservation commission first or is it something that it almost doesn't make any sense to really put a lot of time into this if the select board doesn't want to entertain it either that you say that
you just have an offline conversation about with town council because it is your property that you were charged with managing so I I haven't quite caught up with you to figure out why the select board would need to get involved unless
Unless it's just a so we can talk about that afterwards. I I don't I'm not really sure. Obviously town I would feel extremely uncomfortable unless we had the support of the selector. Oh, all right. And even there's also that liability and the town manager. They would have to know this is a big deal.
It's not typical. So I think that we would really want to have the select board town manager uh weigh in. Yes. Probably sooner rather than later. And I just didn't know how to bring it to them if it went to us first. and we brought it to them or if you would bring it to
them or they should approach the select board and town. Uh again, I just don't know if the select board has any jurisdiction. So it could be like this is what you want to do, but I like the way you phrased it and town council will and town manager obviously you want to
engage Mololis. Um but um town council is going to clarify whether select board has any jurisdiction over this or not and and we just take it from there and then yeah but let's if you guys um based on your
straw poll want to I think it it'd be a good time to like alert Matt that you're maybe considering it and I can do that if you want to. That'd be great. Okay. All right. Anything you need let me know. Thank you. Thank you. We've got somebody in the waiting room.
Um, so we are set with these fine folks. Yes. Okay, I think we're all set. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thanks for your time this evening. Thank you. All right. Thank you. Okay. Next hearing is continuation of
public hearing for notice of intent for 119 Winthrop A. Um, is anybody here for that? Are you online? Okay. Um, so I will read the blurb quickly before we get into
it. Uh, continue public hearing on notice in 10 followed by James Gallagher pursuant to Massachusetts general law chapter 131 section 40 the wetlands protection act and or the reading wetland protection bylaw section 7.1.
The applicant proposes construction of a 22 foot by 24 foot garage addition with living space above. All of the work is within the 100 foot buffer zone to a bordering vegetated wetland. The application plans can be viewed during regular business hours at the town hall
conservation office 16 lower street ready mass or on the conservation division page under project by year. Assessor's map 27, lot 274, DP file 270-0798. Um, all right. So, you folks
were in last time. Um, do you want to take us through what uh what changes, what have you made? We had a number of uh requests last time. So, can you take us through that? And by the way, if you go up to the podium and
let us know your name and address. I know that's kind of obvious. Thank you. James Gallagher 119 through 5. Marie Gallagher also 119th Avenue. Um so we sent the engineering report. I hope
you got that on Monday, Chuck. Yeah. um with all the rainwater retention plan and whatnot. And I know that was kind of the biggest open-ended question. Um and we talked about some of the details last time about, you know, planning a three-foot strip along the the fence line and um some erosion control and that was added to the map, the erosion
control plan as well. Um but just trying to finalize everything now that we have kind of the the rainwater plan. I'll I'll all finish from the engineer. Okay. Um, so as far as the three-foot strip, have you determined yet what plants you
would do and what configuration, what have you? Um, we don't have a final proposal, but um it's a it's a complicated space um to plant anything. Um, very few things like to grow back there.
Uh it after considering our options, I it does appear that maybe we need some more top soil back there. Um when we dig the foundation for the house, my hope is to
um pull out and transfer over some of that top soil. Um that backspace lacks nutrients. I have a hard time even getting weeds to grow back there. So, um I think on either end of the yard there's some very shaded tree covered
areas. I think uh after considering the options, I think a combination of ferns and wild ginger might be things that like the climate there all year long and are very durable.
Um it is uh it's a tough space because it is very wet in the spring and very dry in the summer. So something that's going to appreciate both ends of that spectrum. Um I think in the center uh the yard where there isn't as much tree cover, we
do have a greater opportunity for things that draw in uh pollinators. Uh we do have a uh collection of four at the moment uh high bush uh blueberries. Uh we may add to
that. Um and I think uh I think we have uh opportunities for some different uh species of flowers that might also draw in the pollinators to the blueberry bushes during the summertime.
So, let's talk for a bit about your beginnings of an idea about taking some soil from the foundation and put it back there. So, would you use that kind of a foundation and then do some kind of a top dressing on top of it so it's richer
soil? The question is hard to answer. We did take a sample, a soil sample from back there in the back and we've submitted it for testing so we know what we've got to work with. Sure. Um maybe we won't need to transfer any
soil at all. I I'm going to guess that that it's not very nutrient-rich. And so, um, we've really worked on the soil, uh, in the area where the addition's going because we've been trying to grow grass there and growing grass is harder than
it sounds. Um, so we've really kind of kind of bulked up the nutrients in the front side of the yard to make that happen. um probably look in consultation with a local nursery and try to decide what I'm
going to need to ensure that the plantings go grow and thrive. Questions I would have are things like what depth of soil are you thinking of adding? What measures would you take
to stabilize the soil until it whatever was going to grow there grew in? Um you were talking about some plants, blueberry bushes, whatever. You also would like you to think about some kind of ground cover. So it's a multi-layered
um strip rather than you know just one or the other. Right. Any other questions that I'm missing on that? Well, I'm thinking the ferns she suggested would make a good ground cover. And you just want to pick ferns
that are appropriate for that particular habitat. Yeah, sensitive fern comes to mind, but there are maybe others as well. And yeah, so I I I just am concerned about if you're adding soil to that back
part of the yard, is that um filling next to a wetland. So we want to be careful not to add too much and and overfill the wetland. in in talking
with Chuck later, but um I think Chuck has said about two inches. Yeah, that'd be fine with me. Um escaped to me. Some questions that were asked bounds, you wanted to know about those and I
forgot the other stuff, but you guys, if you remember, storm water runoff was the big one I was looking for more information about. So, the storm water runoff for the for the addition. Yeah. So the plans are on the screen. It shows that the addition uh
is is captured in the infiltration system and then the outfall is at the at the point um into the wetland area. Okay. I'm I'm not seeing something that looks like an infiltration system right
here. Aha. It's a big rectangle. Are those cult chambers? It doesn't mention it says detail. So there's some detail on here. There's a few others attachments I think. And then
as well here. Yeah, if you scroll up higher there, Chuck, I think we um system perforated PVC pipe. Okay. And who designed this infiltration
system? Engineering. Okay. Okay. Now I know what it's made up of. Where's it going again? Just behind the garage. Yes. Okay. In what is currently lawn? Yes.
So what I was going to say is typically we ask for planting plan be submitted. often we want that ahead of time so we can review it um before we approve it.
Sometimes we'll say submit it to Chuck and Chuck uh has our authority to approve it. Um my concern here is that it sounds like the details are fairly vague. Is that a fair assessment? Not that big. I mean, I think they've,
you know, between me and her mother, who's a master gunner, put a lot of time and energy and effort into it. And I mean, we're haven't even started construction yet. We're not going to be realistically doing any planning until probably the fall. Yeah. Um, so can I ask then that
you commit some of this to paper? You know, dimensions, the two inches of top, that's what you're going to do, what plants you have, and where they'll be arranged. Um, not to a millimeter of course, but a general layout so our
experts can look at it. Can can we ask for approval tonight and then we can finalize those details so we don't have to suffer more delays because we're trying to get ahead of the tariffs and get building permits and costs are going up. It's okay, but I may the rest
of the commission is okay with that. Yeah, that's all right with me. All right. So at this point then I think we are ready for a motion for this unless there's more comments. I cut to the chase there a little bit. I move that we approve this
notice of intent. Yes. Sweet. Um for 119 Winthrop Street contingent upon submitting a planting plan to Jeff. Motion to close the hearing. Oh, sorry. All right. I move to close the hearing.
Walter Talbot seconds that Walter Talbbert approves. Martha Moore in favor. Brian B in favor. Okay. So then conditions. What conditions do we have? My biggest condition is they submit a
planting plan to Chuck as soon as they can. Anything else? Let's say uh let's put some before occupancy was requested. So that would at least I don't know when occup this
almost when you're finished the project. So you want to do it this fall. It's probably well before you're doing occupancy, but you wouldn't want to plant the lawn when people are still building. Yeah. So before occupancy, we'll um we want to plan
And that seems like but that you would be planting next spring. Yeah. Does that sound reasonable? Yeah. Enough time. Okay. So, I'll put that condition in. So, that's the planting plan. No more than 2 in of uh you know soil on top of
the vegetated buffer strip can be planned. You don't have to do it, but if it's needed, you can use up to two. Okay. Those are the two conditions I go on. and living. Yes. In the bounding stone. What is going to happen to that stone
ring at the top of the hill in the backyard? So, we're probably going to try to put some top soil up there, too, to get some more stuff to grow up on top of there. So, we probably just use some soil to, you know, fill in the little small holes. So, you're going to leave all the stones there and just cover them up. Yeah. Is
it is there a chance that that is hollowed out a little bit? When we were looking at it, yeah, it seemed like there might have been I'm gonna call it a sinkhole, but it's not a sinkhole, but seemed to be a vacancy down there. Not not in any significant way. I mean, there's something very solid underneath there. I
don't know exactly what it is. So, there might be a little bit of erosion in the top inch or two of soil and there's something you probably concrete underneath that. So, as long as you're aware of it, take that to account. Okay. Having said that, can I have a motion to issue the order of the
conditions? I move to issue the note the order of conditions using including the conditions just mentioned. Walter seconds that motion and Walter Toets in favor to Michelle in Martha
Moore in favor in favor. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Enjoy your project. Thank you. Thanks so much. So quick question Ch. So next up building permit. Can we just start submitting them to building approval? Absolutely. They the as part of the building permit process, they want you to upload the order of
conditions. So, that will be needed at some point, but they're going to go through a review process. Yeah. And so, there's going to be a little bit of time, but yeah, get right in on that. Awesome. Thank you. Yep. Good luck. Thank you so much. Okay. The next one is 288 Grove Street.
As I said, this will be continued at the applicant's request. Can I have a motion to continue this? Do we have a date when they want to continue to? Yeah. May 28th. 28. I move to continue 288 Grove Street to May 28th. Walter Tobit second that motion. Walter Tobin in favor of
the motion. Tim in favor. Martha Moore in favor. Brian B in favor. Okay. So that's continued. Next one is 885 Main Street. Also be continued to May 28th. I have a motion to continue
this move. What is it again? Uh 885 Main Street. I move to continue 885 Main Street to May 20th. Walter Talbert seconds that motion. Walter Talbert's in favor of that motion. Michelle in favor.
Martha Moore in favor. Ryan Bow in favor. Next one is 695 Pearl Street. This is being continued at the applicant's request until May 28th. Can I have a motion? I move to continue 695 Pearl Street to
May 28th. Alder Talbert seconds that motion. Walter Talbertson's in favor of that motion. Michelle in favor. Martha Moore in favor. Brian Bow in favor. Okay. On to the meet. Uh 269 Main Street. Um, is
there anybody online in addition to the people who are here? Do you know? Can you see if anybody What do you mean by that? Uh, is there anybody online who's here for this hearing? You want to raise your hand? So, make sure you let in. Well, they'll let in, right? They're all let in. Okay. Yo, we're all good to go.
So, I'll read the blur. Use the verb. Um, they present. Yeah. Commission discuss and go to there. Okay. So, I'll read the blurb. uh open the public hearing on request for determination of applicability followed by 269 Main
Street LLC pursuant to Massachusetts general law chapter 131 section 40 the wetland protection act and or the reading weapon protection bylaw section 7.1 the applicant proposes placement of an 8 foot by 16 ft fence followed by the
addition and placement of two twoyard garbage dumpsters all the work is within 100 foot buffer zone. The application and plans can be viewed during regular business hours at the town town hall conservation office 16 lower street red
and mass and on the conservation division page under the project by year assessor's map 12 lot 40 RDA 2025-5. Um, okay. Is there somebody here to present
that? What a guess. Okay. And so can you please introduce yourself? My name is Dr. Bruce Doyle and I presently live at 269 Main Street in Reading and I'm here this evening to propose and petition the conservation
board to allow building to place a dumpster outdoors in our current parking lot. The first issue arose just over three years ago when we all moved into this building. One of the main conveniences we were provided before moving in was that the builders had
installed a room in our underground garage for our garbage placement. Within this room are currently three garbage bins and two recycling bins. What was beneficial to all the residents was the fact that we could walk downstairs and
just place our trash into the bins without having to go outside and deal the typical New England weather conditions. Here's where I come in. As a newly elected board member, my first project was to do all that I could to get the garbage placed
outdoors. So why if we have such a convenient situation for us, but I want to do this. It's for one reason and one reason only. And my reason actually has a bunch of adjectives associated with it, but it
still remains as one reason. and that is the smell, the stench, the odor, the rotting and the disgusting smell that we experience quite often. Are there other reasons for me wanting to do this project? Oh, absolutely there is. There are other
reasons. However, at this time and for the reason I stand before you this evening, the other reasons were considered and I quote unquote an internal issue and were irrelevant to this meeting. However, if I'm asked any questions at the end as to what my other
um reason was behind this, I can present that to you. But right now, we're dealing with the odor that we are experiencing in the building. So, what was done to attempt to combat this constant odor in the building? Well, a small barely functioning fan or motor
was installed into our uh garbage room. Now, our building has been pretty divided about this issue. So, I'm bringing about some advantages and disadvantages of this project. One disadvantage, as I stated already, is the odor in the building,
the health risk, the potential for rodents, the potential for insects. A specific incident had occurred in our building. However, this includes the average weekly odor that we experience on the first and second floors, but this one just occurred just
a few weeks ago over a few days. And for a period easily of 48 hours, the garage, the first floor, and the second floor smelled so terrible that many of the residents throughout the day were complaining of the overwhelming stench
in the building. Some of the residents who have said, "I've never smelt anything in the past even complaining of the stench that existed for over two days." One resident posted on our Facebook page that it smelt like a decomposing body. And honestly, that was
not an extreme statement. The only real advantage is the convenience. So, now I'm going to bring up some situations that most people living in New England have had time to deal with while living here. Remember when walking one's garbage to the outside of their home
every week of every year, regardless of the weather? Remember, it's snowing outside, but we have to get our garbage picked up that next morning and we have to get it outside regardless of the conditions. We put on our boots, we put
on our snow gear, and we walk outside to bring up the multiple barrels that we required to get our garbage out the next morning. Snow, rain, sle, sub-zero temperatures never stopped us from knowing that we have to bring out our
garbage weekly. So why is this different for 269 Main Street? What are we concerned about? Safety, slipping, falling. Well, what did you do when you lived in the house? We all slipped. We all fell pulling out our garbage. But we
knew that that garbage had to be brought out that night or the following morning regardless of the weather. And rarely has anybody ever said, "Oh, it's just too nasty out tonight. I think I'll just wait till next week to do it." So, I did
an experiment on my own. I went to the garage door at our building and tested what it would be like to walk from the garage door to the proposed site of the dumpster. And here's what I found. Now, I walk a little bit on the faster side, so this may have to be taken into
consideration, but it took me 22 paces to walk from this garage door to the proposed dumpster site, which took a grand total of 20 seconds. If you do that in return, then you essentially can bring your garbage out to a dumpster and
return back into your place in less than one minute. So, I guess that it took longer than that to perform that task if you're living in a house. So, with that, I then asked, what are other disadvantages that building opponents will provide to you? And I
came up with this, the infamous rodent population. Yes, we should discuss this issue because if a dumpster is placed outdoors on 269 Main Street, then it's likely that the entire rodent population in the state of Massachusetts will now
descend upon 269 Main Street and our brand new dumpster. Why? I guess because we're fresh bait, fresh meat. And so this way, they're all going to descend upon us. So that can only lead to my next research project that I did.
Now, my office is on Main Street in Stonem. And what I did just a couple of weeks ago, I took a clipboard, took a piece of paper, jumped in my car, and from my office in Stonem from Redstone Plaza, I drove back past my facility at
269 Main and into Reading Center. And this is what I found. I actually did this experiment because I wanted to know if there are dumpsters anywhere else or are we the only one that's going to have a dumpster. To my shock and surprise, I was dead wrong. So, what I did, I took
this clipboard and here's what I found. So, the Montterosa building at 159 Main Street has multiple outdoor dumpsters. The Buckingham condo complex at 68 Main Street in Stonem has outdoor dumpsters.
The Oklahoma condominium complex at 100 Main Street in Stoneham has outdoor dumpsters. Coming into Reading now, the Belmont Apartments at 243 Main Street, which is the very next building from where our building is at 269 Main
Street, Outdoor Dumpsters. 352 Main Street and Reading, outdoor dumpster. 21 and 52 Sanborn Street, outdoor dumpster. 132, 139, 142
Washington Street, all outdoor dumpsters. My proposed dumpster will be placed on a smooth, durable, non-absorbent surface with a closed lid on both dumpsters, one for the garage, one for the recycling. A 2-yard dumpster
will be placed and each will have a drain plug attached. They will be cleaned and serviced with whatever is recommended by the town of Reading, which if I recall is two to four times per year. The dumpsters will be enclosed by a wooden fence as recommended by the
town of Reading. There will be two doors for easy access to this dumpster. I have provided you with the name of the engineer, Hancock Associates, that the placement of this
dumpster is in a yet in a safe place and a clear explanation was provided of how the closest catch basin will be safe for any runoff. And if you can give me one minute, I forgot one piece of paper. And here's what I received from a
Mr. Joe Peznola of Hancock Associates, the vice president, director of engineering. Bruce, I was the design engineer for your building at 269 Main Street. I was called regarding your proposal to move the trash facility outside the building. I understand a
dumpster area is proposed in the place of the parking space directly across from the garage entrance adjacent to the conservation land access. It was also mentioned that a question was raised as to whether the dumpster location would impact the existing storm water
management system. The location of the dumpster in this area will have absolutely no impact on the storm water system. Rainwater, sometimes referred to as runoff, will flow across the pavement from the dumpster area around the curb
to the existing catch basin located directly across from the garage. This catch basin is equipped with a hood which will capture any trash or floatable debris and not allow it to leave. Routine maintenance includes
periodic pumping of catch basins to remove the builtup sediment, trash, and any oils or greases that float on top. The water from the catch basin travels through the underground pipes to an underground infiltration system. This
system is equipped with additional treatment to filter out any other pollutants or sediments before the water recharges back to the surrounding soils. This system was fully approved by both the planning board and the conservation
commission. We submitted an asbuilt survey and engineers certification as to compliance with the approvals back in June of 2022. I'm all set. Okay, thank you. Um, before we go to
commission members, when we get to the portion of the show where you guys get to have comments, uh, please address your comments to the chair and I'll take it from there. Okay? And let's try and keep the, uh, background chatter to a minimum. Uh, any questions from the
commission? I have a bunch, but do you have any first one? No, it seems like the motivating fact odor. In my experience, there's many different systems that solve
problems. Have any of them look been looked into? All we have in there currently is a fan. But there are systems that address odor specifically abated and exhausted. Have you looked into those? No, I have not. Okay. Thank
you. Um, I also would like you to tell me is the stench that you're referring to caused by people's food scraps that they're putting in the trash or is it like adult diapers or is it baby
diapers? Or is it dead bodies? I mean, what kind of odor are you guys thinking is it's sour causing this stuff out of the refrigerator that may have been sitting for a long period of time, that sour
stench that you experience. Um, as a resident on the first floor, I've been experiencing this on a weekly basis. So, what happens and I go down on Sundays to do the trash. We have three garbage bins and our our So, we're not picked up on the weekend, I don't think. But Monday
is our pickup and the lids basically are over the top um or partially opened and the smell just generates on the first floor routinely. So do the condos have disposals in the sinks or does everybody
have to put their trash in? Okay, so there are disposals and um in my house we use green earth comp I mean black earth compost for our food waste. So, our actual kitchen trash is very not smelly because all of our
compost is going out with blackers compost in a sealed compost container. If you're saying the trash lids are up, it sounds like you're generating more trash than you are um having capacity for in those trash cans. We no longer
have room unless we add another day. How do you expect the the dumpsters to expand your capacity to not have the lids of the dumpsters be up by the size of it and the amount of bags that
currently fit into a three bin system that will go into a twoyard system that the pickup we have figured out just by the amount of bags that each uh tote holds as well. And then when it's put outside, we know about how many bags
it's going to take to fill up a 2yard bin. And then with that proposal, we will My proposal was to at least get us started on a two-day week pickup, which can advance to a three-day pickup. Um, Chuck, do you have that picture I sent
you by email of a typical two-yard dumpster? Yeah, that's it. That's what you're talking about, correct? Okay. Um, these dumpsters, I looked closely at the lids today and they were intact,
but not long ago, these dumpsters had holes chewed in the plastic lids and the squirrels were going in and out of the dumpsters through the holes and the rain was getting in and out through the holes. Um, and so I'm concerned if you
were to get this style of dumpster, um, what your maintenance plan would be to, um, or replace the lids when the squirrels chew whole food. So the
company that I have information for that would be our company that will provide us with this service. Uh I have spoken to them about that and they will go ahead and rep repair or replace as needed and that's just by their contract
with me as often as weekly as not if it's chewed. If it's chewed then they will go ahead and replace it. I don't know how often squirrels get in there to chew. I have a very s I have a similar dumpster at my place at my place of
business and they have been very accommodating to me. This is a different company. So I'm going by my conversation with the sales rep there based on the fact that she has also serviced my office in the past. It's a different
place now. Okay. Um the dumpsters are something like 4 feet high. The lids are split in half, so you have to lift half the lid of that six or eight foot long dumpster to be
able to put your trash in. If there's a not as tall as me and not as strong as me person who has to take their trash out, will they be able to get the lid up to put the trash in or will they leave their trash bag on the ground next to
the dumpster because they can't lift the lid? At my office, I have the same size and my staff ranges from 51 to 54 for the shorter end. I'm not much taller than that, but at least at the 51
or 52 staff member is dumping garbage in there every day with And what's the oldest age of your staff member? Me. Okay. Oh, young. So, I'm I'm just thinking that there are some people in
this audience, and I'm not making any guesses as their age, but they look older than you. And it looks to me like I would be concerned, and you know, we're conservation. Our concern is the wetlands. My concern is that somebody who is older
than you, not as strong as you, can't get the lid off the dumpster, leaves their trash on the ground, the trash gets spread about and blows into the wetlands. And so I would be very concerned that you come up with some
system where the homeowners in your condo complex who cannot carry their trash out to the dumpster could maybe put it in those totes in the garage and somebody take it out to the dumpster so
that the um dumpster does not um end up with trash around it. So your your concern is the height of somebody and the ability to lift up a plastic lid that maybe three pounds would I'm looking at
some of the people in this audience and I don't think they could well besides if I can piggy back on this there's always a situation where there's been a snowfall you have the weight of snow in addition to the plastic I can imagine scenarios where there's some different The other thing is you have to lift the
bag up at home right Yes. Yeah. Um I have a friend who spoke at town meeting when they wanted to make us all get the wheelie totes that you can now see curbside everywhere. And she said I am only allowed to lift 10 pounds and I
would not be able to put my trash into that wheelie tote if I have to get the full-size tote. And that's why the town put a plan in where you could get a smaller tote. So my elderly na friend with health issues
could put her trash into that smaller tote. So you know if we were to approve these dumpsters I would really want to see a system in place whereby there is no chance that somebody leaves their trash on the ground because they could
not put their trash into the dumpster because it is a big heavy lid. It may not seem to you that dumpster. I have opened the lid many times with a trash bag in one hand and one hand to open the
lid. It is not a light lid. Now, maybe you're getting a flimsier lid, in which case it's going to get chewed through by rodents more easily. So, if you were going to do that, I would like to know what your system will be to avoid people
leaving their trash outside the dumpster because they cannot put it in the dumpster. So, as a for me a firsttime dumpster use aside from where I have it in my building, have there ever been complaints in the town of Reading with
these dumpsters from other condos? because I'm assuming if these dumpsters are and I just mentioned a couple of addresses, I'm sure there's people my age and above that are dealing with this. So, I'm my question would be,
have people come to town hall and say, you know what, we have this dumpster in here. I am 80 years old. I'm handicapped and I can't lift this lid. Conservation about that. However, I will say there have been incidents where we
have gotten reports of lots of trash around dumpsters because lids were left over or the trash was mounded. Um sometimes leftover convenience, laziness fill in your your reasons. Yeah. But nonetheless, the trash then spreads
everywhere. So, uh, it's almost moot if there are other places that have the same dumpsters. The question is, what is your place going to do to minimize um, trash being left outside, trash
blowing around to the wetlands just beneath your parking lot? So, you're you're asking me to to provide a proposal, which I would have to put together for, right? And so I didn't expect you're going to pop one off top of your head right now. I would like to
see that in plan form, operation plan or what have you. Uh that covers the scenarios Martha mentioned and others. Give them thought for ways to ensure that the trash makes it to the the dumpsters and then ways to try and keep
the trash in the dumpsters. And then finally, a plan for periodic frequent walking of the path through the wetlands back there to pick up trash, right? Yeah.
Um I I think the commission's going down a road where you'll get appealed by D. Yes. Trash, unless it's smothering the wetland, is not a violation. It's a problem. Okay. Interesting. And talking
about how to get the trash from that place to the dumpster and scenarios about whatifs can be handled in an operation and maintenance plan. Okay. So, I think this I understand what you're doing, but if um uh the applicant
wanted to appeal, I believe that he would win if you're going to put conditions on it like you're talking about. Okay. So, I'm just gonna kind of check you right there and then we should now continue your conversation. So, so then from my perspective, I'd want that operational
plan. I don't know if that would be satisfactory for what points you were bringing up, but yeah, I think an operation and maintenance plan would be appropriate. I also just I think if people
are putting stinky trash um spoiled food in their trash in the building, they're going to be putting spoiled food in the trash in the dumpster and it's going to just be smelly out
there instead of smelly in the building. Um so I Uh, I'm thinking you guys as a building might want to discuss how to encourage members of your community to use their disposals or use a Black Earth
compost bin and not um be inconsiderate on the weekend and and put spoiled food in the trash that ought to be relatively unsmelly trash and do
something else with your spoiled Oh, understand the uh the area next to the where you're going to put the dumpsters. Do you have that? You have that picture? I have the picture. Yeah. Okay. Um cross-hatched,
whatever. Yeah. Is is that also for fire engines to back up to get out? So, there is How do you explain that, Chuck? What that the area with the lines? Uh, I thought it was a temporary uh uh
parking area for people that are moving. No, no, it's not. That's not a parking area. What I thought it was is a either a snow site for snow plow or uh
an area for emergency vehicles. And it's right next to one parking space. And then there there is one separate which is a little wider than a parking space and those are separated with a bunch of white lines that from what I was told is
an emergency vehicle uh turnabout or snow removal area. You're going to put a fence around the area. Is that a locked fence? It will be. Yes,
it's a wooden fence. And there will be, we haven't decided whether we, it can be locked, but it'll have the little clasps that fold into the the um the fence into
the latch. I'm just curious if every member has to have an individual key to get into. Oh, I had no I never even thought about putting a lock on. So, it's okay if other people from other places come in and use. Well, we have we have a camera there that will watch
that. So, all the dog walkers who are using your foot path through the wet what wetland wetland, you would object to them throwing their doggy bag in there as they come back out. We have a dog bag
facility right next to it and a place to dispose of. Yes. So, we have a little area um I'm not sure where it is on the map, but there is an area for any tenant to grab a little dog bag. They go into the wetlands, they take a bag, and then
there's a little garbage there. And where does that little garbage get emptied to? Now that gets picked up separately from under the building in the garage. What service comes and picks that up?
Anybody know? The cleaner changes that day. Okay. That one I'm not I'm not sure of. Maybe that's the source of your stink. No, the source is inside. Inside. Yeah. The cleaner empties the bag. They don't put it in the inside trash to be
taken away. She takes takes it with her. Okay. Yeah. Okay. I'm looking through all the original plans for the building and it doesn't say in anything I've found yet what that
cross-hatched no parking area is intended for. Do you remember, Chuck, what it was designed for? I I told you what I thought it was for, which was I thought it was a temporary parking area for for a moving trucks, you know, a small moving truck based on its
location, but Okay. It's It's not a parking spot. There's one next to it. Um I'm not sure what it is. It's not being used for this purpose. Not a conservation. It's not being used for
any purpose. All right. Um, I'm snow. So, Bruce, do you want you you so um just so everyone understands, you asked the health department, you asked the planning board. Any can you update every
uh the commission on that? As far as what now? Updates for what did they what did they tell you? Did they say that this is an issue? This can't happen. I was never denied any anything. They I was continuously told to move
forward. Um to get all the information you can and provide us with a diagram to provide us with the size uh a plot plan for that area. Yeah. So, I heard from to
you already planning board that they looked at it and I asked them if they needed to review it and they said they didn't. They had no issues with this move. Okay. And each each of the each of them that doesn't mean once we approve
it and it goes through whatever step is left. I don't know if health has a step that they'll flag it at that point, but their initial thoughts and I think that was more than one or two looks at the plan. Any questions or comments?
Yeah. Uh I I wanted to know when I was looking for your information if you if you're submitting the operation and maintenance plan. Do you did I don't know if anyone looked at do you feel like that's sufficient for this outdoor
dumpster Bruce do you after this conversation I think that um some of what commission asked about trash outside would have to be addressed. I mean, that doesn't seem So, no one's approving a trash outside spot,
you know, at the next to the dumpster. That would obviously attract animals and uh be a problem for everyone. But again, that would be covered by the health department when they do their inspection. But I would like to see
language to do a better job at policing along the Bible, whether it's a violation or not. I'd like to see that as mitigation. nothing else to keep that area cleaner than a community state. Yeah, absolutely. I mean,
when I went there, I mean, it wasn't a dump by any means, but there were Starbucks cups and the cover off of baseball and some plastic water bottles and the things that we don't want out there. So, I don't know what you guys do
currently to occasionally clean it up, to rely on residents to do it. I don't know. But whatever it is, you need more. And that would be part of this operation and maintenance plan, I would think. So, yeah. Yeah. So, that would cover pickups, issues, who moves the trash,
what happens in the snow. Um, I'm not sure I'm not sure this eliminates snow storage in this area, but if it does, some some something about how that will be handled or if it needs to be handled
at all. Um, I guess that would be a conversation with the plow company. So, I was trying to get it the other day when we were there. So, the um enclosure for the two dumpsters goes in basically
alongside the cross-hatched area, the hatched area. Um, but the gates were open on the end of it, right? So, how would one get to the furthermost in dumpster? So, there's two potential um
projects for this. One, it can open up at the end, but we realize that if it opens up at the end, then it's going to interfere with the actual driveway. So, we thought it would be best to open it up in the parking space itself, which
will overlap or at least go right into those the white line area. So, this way it will not open up into the the driveway where people will be walking. So that means you will have to know what the situation is with so snow storage. Correct. Because if it goes there, the
gates may have difficulty open. Yes. Okay. Um and what are you going to do for lighting the area? Has not been discussed. Um because we obviously don't like light spilling out into the wetlands. You don't like what?
I'm sorry. Light spilling out into the wetlands. It interferes with the wildlife. Are additional lights needed or is it sufficiently lit? Question. I I've never I have never inspected that area
to see what the lighting situation is. So, you should do that. I can't be honest with that. I don't know. You should check that out. So, the issue is too much lighting affects, right, wildlife? Yes. Um, and there's all kinds of thought on the kind of lighting to
use, how much to use, the height of the light fixtures to try and minimize how much it spreads. So, the place to start is just do you even need it? Yeah. Well, that was my question. Do we need a light? Do we need a light source there? We're not asking
you to put in a light. That's not conservation's not I'm asking are you putting one in and then if so there's issues. never planned on it. Okay. So, you should just double check that you think it's safe. That's up to you. So, safe safety issues, what you're concerned about and darkness. Okay.
Uh Okay. Do you have any other questions, comments? Uh no. Okay. So, we will open it up to the general population. Again, if it's if I call on you to go up, go to the podium, introduce yourself. If you have
comments or anything to the chair and please try not to go over uh repeat questions. I'm all set. Thank you. Brian Brian will facilitate this and direct all the questions to the conservation. I'll just start there and
move my way over. So why don't you come up and introduce yourself? My name is Nancy McKel. I live at unit 3005 and I'm the new kid on the block there. That being said, I have listened,
I have watched, and this is what I would like to tell you. First of all, when I listen to the buildings that Bruce named as having outdoor
trash, for those of you who don't know, all of those buildings are 30 to 50 years old. And so the concept of storing trash inside didn't even exist at that time.
I also did some rounding around and I looked at Reading Commons, Reading Woods, Johnson Woods. All of the multi-unit buildings have, as you know, indoor
trash storage. I am not talking about the standalone uh houses in those developments. I'm talking about the the garden style ones. all have indoor storage and they have
been able to control the odor. They as you drive through you don't see trash all over the place. What Bruce did not tell you is that originally they had bin staff in there
washing the containers in the trash and it worked very effectively. this board chose to discontinue that. So they recreated the problem that the first board tried to solve.
The second thing is in terms of lack of storage in this storage room. I personally spoke with Bruce about it, with uh Eric about it, and suggested that the two recycle bins, which are empty all the time, be
converted into trash bins and that the recycle, which is basically paper, be outside in the trash container that currently stores the cardboard. And that would solve the
problem of overload. And to your point about being able to reach, I will tell you personally as somebody who stands 5t tall on their best day, even in the storage room, in the
trash room, for me to have the bag to to raise the lever and get the thing in is a challenge on my best day. So five feet means as tall as I am, I got to lift it and somehow get it
in. I would submit that most people will do exactly what you don't want them to do and say to heck with this. I'm dropping my bag here. Somebody else can worry about it
because it is so frustrating. I would also like to share my experience. Can you please wrap this up so we can move along? Sure. Thank you. As a manager of a golf course, we happen to have a huge trash
container. I will not tell you how the grounds crew finds coyotes, rats, squirrels in there on a daily basis tearing it apart. And the other problem that we have at a golf course that I'm sure will exist
here is the neighbors will start to drop their items in front of the trash barrels outside. It's an easy way for them to get rid of furniture, of rugs, of everything that they can not
get. And with that, I thank you very much. Thank you. Somebody else wants to Yes, you please. Hi, my name is Pam Fleming. I live in one 01. I'm on the first floor and my
apartment is directly above the trash room. My bedroom is on top of the trash room. It has I have no smell whatsoever. In my apartment, none. The trash room has a ventilating exhaust fan which runs
the entire length of the garage and vents out the smell. So, there is no smell. Occasionally here and there we used to, but we did everything we could to prevent the smell. We had the barrels being washed. We had the floor being We have the floor being washed. We had the
walls being washed, but it set off the alarm. So, we stopped. Um, we don't have a problem with smell. I don't know what they're smelling. I would smell it. My bedroom's right there. So, myself with a dumpster
outside, barely 5t tall, and I have health issues, would not be able to lift that cover constantly to swing my back, my bags into that dumpster out there, what they call. Um, our concern too is the conservation
land, the snow removal that is well, we were told when we moved in that lines that is for emergency vehicles turn around and they do. They use it now when they come. Um, the we're concerned about the snow. The
snow used to be stored in where the truck goes. Well, it's called Charlie space. The parking space. heat pots, other places. That's where they store the snow. They're going to have to start storing the snow on the opposite side of
our driveway up against the conservation land, which will it's filled with gas, oil, salt, pounds and pounds of salt, um, and which will fall and drip down into the wetlands right there. That's
the only other place they can store it. Uh we're concerned about the animals coming up, of course. And the animals down there, they will just go on the top of that, climb to the top of that, take out a bag of trash, and off they go. They will chew
through it. And a wooden fence. We just found this out. They will chew through a wooden fence. I've encountered numerous animals down there. I've walked my dog there every single day for three years and encountered almost everything. The ecosystem down there is nice. It's not
really dirty. I would pick up trash. A lot of dog poop bags down there. Like he said, we do have a dog station. I would deposit them in that there. Um, but we have a good ecosystem. We have ducks floating in that water. I don't know. You know, and there's frogs. Little kids
go down there and play with the frogs. And the trash having a dumpster right there at their disposal at the animals disposal is just going to create havoc for our ecosystem down there and the trail. It's a public way. So to have
that be, you know, encroached by trucks coming two, three times a week or whatever they claim it to be. It would be just terrible. and and that having it's unsightly and it's unnecessary. That's my point. It's just very very
unnecessary. Thank you. Thank you. Want to speak? Did you? Yes. Hello, my name is Denise Nolles. I live at 269 Main Street, um, unit 2001. What I wanted to do was rectify a
few things that were mentioned that I know it differently. As far as our trash room, we have three barrels and two um, recycle. We need the recycle. We
need the recycles because the recycle gets filled often because we only have one other laundry style black whatever you would call it outside. I think you guys saw it outside the trash room. That's
for cardboard only. The last board put a letter uh a note up there that said cardboard only. As far as the trash and trying to use certain bags, the last board member she tried to
really push using and her name is Pamela Fleming. She tried to use to push certain biod degradable bags um certain bags that would not give an odor. She would tell me more more often
than not how these people are just throwing everything in the trash. It they don't use I mean she went as far as some people putting their garbage in the freezer in the freezer and then take it
down the night before or that morning of trash pickup. The trash barrels were being cleaned. Absolut the board before prior had the people coming in way after way
long after that people like myself would not stop complaining about the smell, the odor, the the trash room being dirty, whatever. They started having again one of the board members from the prior pushed to
have um uh the cleaning company come out and wash the barrels. Unfortunately, they would come out, but then they would never show up. If we need, you know, if we need reference to this, I'll be more than happy to call the company and show
that they would never show up. So, the barrels weren't being washed the way they should have been being washed. When they would come, when they would come, talk about wetlands, they would come and they'd wash the barrels by a big truck outside
our garage with all that, all that dirt. It wasn't like they took the barrels to another location. They cleaned them right there. Another problem I have as far as the snow. Our snow is put everywhere. It it is put
everywhere in our in our parking lot. It is put in the uh in the side of them. It's put in the back of it. So, as far as them saying the conservation, it's going to put oil and gas. It's already
all going there. This is not going to this spot that we have for the trash that we're would like the trash to go outside has nothing to do with the trash that would that would go in between that stripe line that
is beside the spot that we're going to be using. One more thing, people are complaining about trash, the smell, and I understand they live on the first floor. They're worried. I'm going to say this. I sit on
my deck a lot in the summertime. I live right next door to a pet hotel, whatever you want to call it, that has barrels. I don't think they have a dumpster, but they have barrels and they throw all their dog poop and
whatever in that barrel. I also on the other side of me, I live in the back of the building, the condominium that has 47 people that has the dumpster right on the edge of the conservation
land. That's always that's always full. You can hear the guys coming, whatever. I have never, and I can put my life on this when I say this to you, I have never smelt any sort of garbage outside.
So, the point of them saying that they're going to si smell garbage, I don't think so. I think it's a very it's it's about smelling. We're in a confined area down in the garage. It's going to be going out. We're not going to it's it's going to be
in the open air. I don't think that's a problem. And as far as the conservation land, I know my husband has had problems with the trash in the building and he's gone down there because people have left
their bags outside of the barrels because there was no room for it. So, okay, that's all I have to say and thank you. You anybody else wish to speak?
I guess I meant it can be. Hi, thank you committee. I'm Dr. Linda Johnson. I live in 106. So that's one end of the small buildings, 24 units. Um I've uh I'm on the board, the H current
HOA board. And um as they've said, we've had disagreements. I feel that we've lived there about a year and a half now, a little over that. And um I we don't smell the trash uh even
when we walk out. I did recently noteify the board that we have never had the carpets cleaned in the building. So, I've arranged for us to get the whole carpets clean, which I think is part of the smell. Um, there are problems
occasionally down in the room when people have not thrown the trash in plastic bags, and that's the only time I've smelled it. But um we feel that it's important for us older people and short. I'm also 5 foot to uh have the
indoor facility. It's part of the reason was part of the selling feature of the uh place. And um it's safer. We worry about slipping and falling uh because it's a little bit of an uphill to get
from the um garage door up to the proposed trash area. I'm a retired physician and it it's a concern that somebody's going to get hurt that doesn't need to be since
it was built to have it inside. And um I do feel I I've had several people come to me because they knew that I preferred to keep it inside and they've noticed things. uh one of the fourth floor residents who lives basically above
us I'll say amused in you know quotes uh can watch all the animals and such coming to the outdoor dumpsters uh that are uh what is it 243 the the big red
lot building um so we know there are going to be a lot of vermin there there also bacter very enviral problems that come with outdoor trashes. And um it's um I feel because we're on the
conservation land, there are going to be bags if for no other reason people pass through, which is great to get to them, you know, from Main Street to there, they're going to dump trash inside uh on the ground. They're not going to
open our thoughts to open our bins. And so I think we will have trash on the ground. And um I've been told by at least a couple of different um businessmen who have their have to have their trash outside for the businesses
that raccoons and rats and whoever they are, whatever they are, do eat into the plastic bins and there's often leakage down there and um so I think we are going to have pollution problems and
that concerns me. Thank you. Anybody else wish to speak? Come on down. Oh. Um, I live at 102 on the corner. Um, my unit is directly adjacent and the
closest to where the dumpsters would be. Um, I My name is Ally Numovich. Um, and we like to leave our windows open in the summer and sit on the porch. And I just moved for up from Boston um which does have my fast outside and um it was very routine to
see raccoons and squirrels and um skunks and one of the people in my building did get sprayed once as well as their dog. Um and I kind of wanted to leave that in Boston um and not up um in Reading. Um so I know it's not really as much of a
conservation issue as a personal preference, but um yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, thank you. My name is Dr. David Maul. I live at 269 Main Street on the first floor and I have uh not had any
odor on the first floor and also in the garage. Um I'm there frequently and I don't smell any nasty odor coming from our trash room. there is a fan that runs there constantly. So, I'm not sure
what we're trying to fix. Uh I guess we're trying to fix people complaining of an odor. Um there are other uh means of doing that as um Mr. Talbert and other members have mentioned. We could address odor in other ways. Um,
including, uh, you know, the mention of having people dispose use their garbage disposals and not dispose of anything nasty in their in their trash. There's also been um a number of misstatements here today. For instance, uh, Ben Bath
is a certified company that does clean barrels. Uh they even work for Logan Airport and their truck is all self-contained. They turn our barrels upside down and wash them and all the drainage from that goes in the truck.
None of it goes onto our property. So that's just one example of a total misstatement and misunderstanding of what the previous board has tried to do in order to help reduce odor. And I'm sure there are many other um you know ways that could be
looked into rather than taking the trash outside where it's going to destroy the wetlands. It's going to destroy our property because uh the the dumpsters when it rains, especially if there's holes in the cover, water goes in there
and that has to drain out. Sure. There's a plug. Um those plugs often don't work well. Some of the dumpsters start to rust through and filthy dirty water goes onto the pavement and there's a much bigger mess in having the trash outside
than there is inside. We have the ideal thing. Now I spoke uh uh we we have spoken with the builder and he said he from the beginning he tra he plan to put the trash inside and he does that with
all his new buildings and no one else has proposed none of his new buildings have proposed moving it outside. So I'm not sure what we're trying to solve here but it seems to me like we're moving in the wrong direction. trying to go
outside, contaminate uh the the the um conservation and wetlands rather than look into other ways of perhaps solving an older problem which most of us don't even smell. Thank you very much. Thank
you. Any last thoughts? Okay. First, I want to make it clear. It's not in our purview to adjudicate issues in the building. Um, it's not up to us to go determine whether or not
there are odors or not. Uh, for us, it's solely will putting dumpsters out there cause harm to the wetlands. That that's that's our that's our focus. All right. So,
um, you folks can handle your internal differences, however is done in that building with the condo association or whatever. And I'm not going to get into how you might ascertain the odors and whether or not to use garbage disposals
in Black Earth. All those things are up to you guys to figure out the way that works for the majority of people or again or whatever the system is you have in place. So from our from our perspective, it's if we approve the dumpsters there,
what's involved with that? You know, do we approve it? And if so, what measures can have to be taken in order to uh prevent impact on the on the wetlands? Um so you all understand that this is
not us running away from any responsibility. This is us focusing on our responsibility. All right. Um so whether or not there are other means
of reducing odors, it's up to you folks. If you want to uh have your association explore those, explore washing the barrels, that's not in in our world. That's not on our plate. We have the
report from the engineer that if there is spillage out there and it goes into that storm drain that's near uh the corner of where the dumpsters would go, that that would be contained, that would be processed. So, um, that's not going
to get out to the wetlands if as long as it's in that space. Um, as far as the snow, if they're pushing snow over the curb and everything, we'll have to watch for that. But if the snow's within the curb and it melts there, whatever is in
it, it's going to run again towards the uh drainage that was designed in and it has uh methodologies in place to handle that properly. All
right. So um from my perspective I think we can uh entertain a motion on this. If somebody wants to um present one then we would come up with conditions that would be attached
to this attached to how excuse me it might be implemented but that's the process that will be followed. All right. So, is there a motion? Uh, let me go back. What is this? This is an RDA, right? Yes. Yes.
Okay. Is there a motion um for either a negative or a positive determination? I'm not ready to make a motion on this. Okay. Is anybody ready to make a motion? Don't have to. I'm asking. Okay.
So, it's pretty clear that we don't have we're not of one mind. Um, the way this would work is um the applicant either could say, "Yes, I want
to vote tonight and take their chances on which way the vote might go." Or the applicant could request a continuence to the next meeting presumably uh to allow more time for people on the commission
to uh get some resolution to whatever their um qualms are. Right. Did I state that right? I just would say I would also like answers to some of the questions we've asked. Um
fair enough. So, you know, we've we've come up with some questions. If if we were to approve this, we'd want to know what the operation and maintenance plan would be. How often would they solve the problem of animals getting in by chewing
holes? Okay. So, I saw you nod. I'm I'm assuming that means you'd be okay with that continuence. So, do we want to make sure we list the information we'd be looking for before the next meeting? and then um you could provide it to Chuck
and he would distribute to us and then at next meeting you would present whatever you found and we could uh go through this. So if the applicant that proposal Thank you. So if the applicant wants to make a
continuence we cannot override that by making a motion. uh the applicant has requested uh a continuance. So that we will continue. So we we can't override that. We have to wait till next time. Um I suppose you
can make a motion. I don't think it would carry. So um you can decide tonight. Someone can make a motion. And I think Brian was saying if if um there's no motion, which it sound like there wasn't
before, then the only option is either um continue or take a vote and and or have no decision. Yeah. Not sure how to word this. That's Can I make a motion that we
decide on this issue tonight? No, you make a motion on the determination, positive or negative. Yeah, you just come up with a motion. They'll have to say yes or no. I'd like to make a motion for to reach a
determination for 269 Main Street. In the affirmative or the negative? Well, in the negative meaning I I don't approve of this whole thing. So that negative means it has no effect on the weapon. So so for everybody if we
this is just a motion. I know but just so understand the negative positive thing. A negative determination means we'd be approvening going forward. So Walter you I'm moving for an affirmative positive determination. Positive determination.
Did anybody want to second that? So, so just so everyone's clear, you're for the project as in positive. I'm against the project. All right. So, you So, you want to make a motion to deny the
project with a positive determination saying that you're just denying it or it needs to go to a notice of intent. Which which of those two? You need a notice of intent or do you need a just deny? Just
deny. Okay. So that's it. So we're making a denial motion to deny uh and it would be a positive determination of that denial. Anybody want to second that? I'll second
it. Can we discuss it before we vote? Um yeah, you absolutely can. Briefly. Um, I would prefer to give this group a chance to come back with a proposal
whereby they answer some of my issues with this outdoor trash, which include how do people who are not able to open the lid of the dumpster get their trash taken out and if they could
come come up with an operation and maintenance plan for this dumpster that I felt protected the wetland interests. It would then be up to this group to figure out how they decide
whether or not to actually have a dumpster because it sounds like the uh it's not unanimous. Let's just say that. And I don't know whether they need a twothirds vote among their homeowners association or whether the vote, you
know, it's not our problem. But if I were going to vote negative determination, I'd want more information. At this point, I don't have enough information to vote negative determination, and I would go along with
you with a positive just because I don't feel confident that the wetland would be protected. without better safeguards of what happens to the trash. So that's my thoughts. What I'm
hearing is all we're doing is moving their indoor problem outside at risk to weather. They they need to resolve their indoor problem. In my opinion, have any thoughts? I don't think it's our issue to say if
someone can put their trash inside or not. That's not the conservation's problem. We have to worry about the wetlands. Not if someone can put a bagu in the trash or not. That's not our Okay,
that's not our insight. If it impacts the wetlands, fine. But it doesn't matter if they're going to slip and fall the gate, the lid. That's not our problem. Yeah. My problem is bags of trash that don't make it into the
dumpster and holes in the lid. And that figure out how it's going to get right inside. Right. So, I would not approve this project without a better maintenance plan. Right. But you would approve it with the maintenance, but depending
on what it's said. Oh, yeah. It I I don't make any guarantees. Okay. Fair enough. But I I would only consider approving it if I liked what the maintenance plan said. I withdraw my
motion. Yes. Then can I have a motion to continue this to May 28th? I move to continue this to May 28th. I second that emotion. Second that motion. Smoke your Robinson. Sorry. Got
it. Um and Walter Talbert approves it. Dr. Michelle Martha Moran Mo in favor. So this will be continued to the next meeting on May 28th. Um the the key issue here seems to be a robust uh operations plan that covers
some of the questions we have. Uh so when you get that, you can send it to Chuck. Chuck, you would need to get it by the Thursday before the next meeting, right? Yeah. So, uh we need it next
Thursday, right? So, it would have to be in to Chuck by the end of business next Thursday. He could distribute two o'clock on Thursday 22nd. There you go. Okay. And so, uh there's no So, you've been notified that the uh meeting would
happen on this date. There's no additional notification for the next meeting. So, this is the notification that it's on the 28th. There will be no letter, no issue in the newspaper, anything like that. So, uh, it will be
on the agenda. So, if you're if you're tapped into the town's agendas, then you'll see it there. And Bruce, if for some reason you can't get it in by that, um, talk to Chuck and you can request further continuence. Mr. Chair, excuse
me. My name is Bill P, also a res. I was just going to make this suggestion. What can you speak at the podium? I think the group's comments um about operational issues are are well placed. My concern is if an operational idea is
to be put to this group within a couple of weeks, there won't be an opportunity for residents of the building to have a chance to review and comment on. I think the chairman is quite correct. It's up to us really to develop operationally how this is going to work and I think
this is something that the whole building should be involved in. So the way it works is the applicant is the one who requests a continuance. He has requested May 28th. So at the moment we will have them on the agenda for May
28th. If in fact it's not sufficient time, there can be an additional continuence. Um if in fact he submits it and you guys don't get to see it until it's posted on our website and that's how you see it, so be
it. It's incumbent on you to review it as soon as it's available. And if you had issues with it, you could come to this forum on the 28th to talk about it. May I ask the applicant if he will agree to a further a later date so that we have a chance to do things internally
before it comes before this group again at this time? Okay. May May 28th another meeting of the entire association. Okay. Okay. But excuse me. Excuse me. That doesn't
pertain to us. You folks need to figure it out. The applicant has requested the 28th. So, right now it's the 28th. If that changes, it changes or doesn't see in two weeks. Okay. Think we're done with that? Thank
you everybody for coming. Okay. It's good that you're involved. Ryan, can I make suggestion? Sure. Why not? Morin Harold here. Can we take up the um enforcement? I want to ask you some questions, but you're still meeting. We're still
meeting. We're still meeting. You have an email? Yes, my email is on the website. Thank you all for listening. Thank you. Thank you. Excuse me. Excuse me. We have moving on to the next thing. So if you have a
question, you can email him. Chuck, you say? Yeah. So I was going to suggest that I know that Moren Harold's here for um 50 Johanna Drive and that's also J AE. I don't know if they're here or not, but
um gota you know like to get Moren here and then our friend here might be the next thing you do. So at the chair's privilege the chair's prerogative we will take um item nine under old new
business next which is J AE Tree Service 50 Johanna Drive. If someone's here from J AE Tree Service, could you uh use the reaction buttons and raise your hands or we'll know that you're here and I can let you
enter the meeting. Seeing none, usually at the lower portion of the screen raise hand function. So that's uh something has to be addressed. they uh were requested to come to the conservation commission
meeting tonight. So, but Moren's here. Uh so, I don't know which one you want to deal with first. We have Let's deal with uh 50 Joanna first so we can go. Hello, Maren. Hi. Good evening, everyone. How are you?
Good. Good for your patience. You're welcome. So, I'm here as well as the property owner. Um, property owner received an enforcement order from the commission for doing work within um the
200 foot riverfront area as well as the 100 foot buffer zone. The work include removing some trees as well as crowning the trees and removing some limbs on site. Um, the enforcement order requested the property owner be here
tonight, which he is, as well as provide a restoration plan by May 8th. Um, it's May 14th. Uh, my client just received or picked up the enforcement order. Um, I think it was on Monday. So, one of the
things I'm going to request from the commission is to consider extending the date for the restoration plan. Um, I I went out to the site today. I saw it. Um, and then one of the
other questions I had was for the restoration plan, what I'd like to do is obviously we need to do some plantings. I understand that's what the commission uh will want. Um but if we could
possibly maintain the existing lawn area that was in the backyard, that's what I'd like to propose. So I'd like a little guidance from the commission if um that's possible on that. And those two considerations you want to
put before us. I'm sorry. Could you say that again? Well, you said one consideration is this and then that. So those are the two items. Yes. And then um lastly um whether or not the
commission will require an engineered plan of the site um just so when I come back to you I have everything um for thoughtful discussion. Okay. Um can you want to say something?
I want to let the commission know that uh there is an engineered plan for a not an RDA that was issued. It just doesn't have the detail that uh the commission usually asks for. So they're halfway there or even more than that. So I don't think it would be a big stretch for
asking for an engineered plan. So um let's take the first issue first which is requesting uh extension on the restoration plan. Um, what kind of extension are you looking for?
Um, well, I think it's going to depend on the engineered plan. Um, I think a month would be appropriate if that works. Um, I need to go out, flag the resource areas. Um, surveyor needs to go out, pick pick the flags up, and then
show, you know, the tree stumps or the stags that are that are standing there. and then do a planting plan. I can't have it to you by next Thursday. June 11th or 25th.
So Chuck just guided me. June 11th of 25th. Which one do you want to target? Can we Let me see. June 11th. Check. June 11th. I'd have to have that into you by what? The fourth.
The 5th at two o'clock. Can Can we shoot for the 11th? Yeah, you can. That would be the meeting date and the distribution date is on the Thursday. But you know, we would accept, you know, it's really difficult to post these things. We have an
electronic agenda. So, it would really be better for you to shoot for the 20 the 4th and if you can't make that then the next day up until 2:00 is the best. Okay. So, you're shooting for the meeting on
the 25th? No, the 11th. On the 11th. Okay. All right. Um, so just to be sure, so this enforcement order is attached to the deed, right? No, no. So, if the property
sold in the meantime, where does that leave us? The the new owner has the new owner has an enforcement action against that them, but it's not it's not nec necessarily visible to that person. The violation
goes with the land, Mr. Chairman. Yeah. I don't Is it on Morin? Is this property on the market right now? I don't know. I went out there today. I didn't see a for sale sign. Isn't the owner right
there with you? Yes. Can you ask the owner? So, can we ask the owner that question? Sure. Gino, can is the property for sale right now? You might be watching the Celtics. I don't know. Um, I can certainly find
out, Chuck, and email you. All right. I mean, I the bottom line is I just don't want to be I don't want that to be a way that this is uh sidestepped. Mr. Chairman, I've been hired and contracted by the property
owner. Um, I'm planning on working on this property and providing the necessary documentation so that this enforcement order will be lifted at some point. Um, okay. All right. So, let's let's say then that we're shooting for the meeting
of the 11th uh for the restoration plan. Okay. And your second consideration you were in interested in was in trying to maintain the backyard. Can you define that more clearly? What do you mean by
the backyard? So, I have some photographs I can bring in. These photographs were taken from the real estate website when the original home was for sale.
Um, let me bring these in. Oh, Moren, I think it's easier than that. If you've been there, you've seen that there's an area close to the house which is sorted. Yes. Yes. Then there's the area where the trees were cleared where
it's uh bare soil. So what do you mean by the backyard given that context? Can you see the screen my screen Mr. Chairman? Yes. Okay. So this was prior to any renovation to the
home. Um this was the rear porch. You obviously see some lawn area in this location. Here's from the backyard looking towards the home. There was a child's playset. Um, I believe this tree still
standing. We have some lawn area here as well. And then here's another look at the property. So, the actual lawn area extended beyond the sod that's there right now. I
understand that there's exposed soil there. That's obviously the result of the tree work and the machinery, etc. on the property, but what I'd like to do is certainly provide the commission with a planting plan. Um, we
need to remove the logs that are stockpiled on the property. We need to take them off site. I'd like to restore as much as the existing lawn that was there um beforehand before the trees were cut.
So we could you can submit that as a consideration. I will tell you from my perspective I would be against accepting that. Um I I I think that uh is part of the taking liberties with cutting down the
trees is clearing space for lawn. Even if there was grass there, it was under the trees under the canopy that came from hundreds of years of growth which is now gone. So I would be against it at least. I can't speak for the commission.
Okay, fair enough. And did you have a third point you wanted us to consider? It was just the engineered plan. So, you know, I think that's already been covered. So, we're going to have an engineered plan which is going to show
our jurisdictional setbacks which will help you decide what to do with the lawn. But until until um you know, the commission has some understanding of the jurisdictional setbacks, no work can happen. I don't maybe that's something you want to
consider. I don't know if the logs because what I heard was you wanted to clean up the site and start restoring the lawn which is yeah Brian said that that's that he doesn't Yeah. the chair doesn't want that to happen. So one of
the things so that that was not that was not my statement. So what I for as part of the restoration plan moving forward, we obviously cannot do any work until we receive the approval from the commission. I understand that. My my
thought was as part of the restoration plan was to remove the logs and the branches that are currently stockpiled and I was hoping to restore the historical lawn area that was there. that that was just one of the requests
for some sort of input which I heard I mean I think I think we're madly agreeing just using different words so the bottom line is yes you you can remove the power logs in the back right um and no we are not going to consider
what you're calling the historic uh lawn area only will allow you up to what's currently sed whatever that is 20 feet or whatever are behind it. The currently sorted area only you can keep open. The rest of it is up for discussion and the
restoration plan. Why are you moving the logs? Is that And how are they doing that? Why and how? Um I mean that's a that's a valid question. I just I assume they were going to have to be picked up and cleaned up. Yeah, it
doesn't have to be done before the restoration plan. I agree. No, actually um they make a fine point. There's no reason to move the logs before we see what your plan is. So, yeah, I've been corrected on that. That's at least get
to the next meeting. Yeah. Question. Sure. Um the uh erosion control going down along the driveway on the stream side of the property has collapsed. And I'm
concerned about risk of erosion from this damaged backyard into the stream. Is that something that we could have reinstalled sooner rather than later while you're working on your restoration plan?
Yes. So, I spoke with the homeowner. Um, in the enforcement order, it directs the homeowner to install, believe it was 12in waddles. Um, that has not been done as of today, but I do know the homeowner is
working on getting those installed. I did not see any erosion or sedimentation when I was out there today. Um, we've had a lot of heavy rains. The site is relatively stable despite the exposed soils, but we will certainly get those
erosion controls in ASAP and I will shoot Chuck an email so that he's aware of it if you wanted to go out and inspect it. Right. And um Marin, there's the place in particular that I'm worried about. There's an area where the soil
was disturbed right up the top of Bank. And so I'd want you to pay to to pay attention to that in particular because it's right next to the to the stream or whatever you want to call that there. We'll do. Okay. More questions. Um I
have the plans from when this um re u renovation was approved. Is that the engineered plans we're talking about? And on those engineered plans, it shows 35- ft zone going right through the back
porch of the building. And it also shows 100 foot setbacks showing that the entire property is within jurisdiction of conservation. There's a 100 foot riverfront and 100 foot um
wetland. Is that the plan that you're working on? Well, that's the plan I received either today or yesterday from Chuck. Okay. Um, and when we did our site visit, um, we
counted four snags that are like 15, 20 feet tall. One tree that had some major branches trimmed but seemed like it might still survive.
And 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 eight stumps of 6 in diameter or greater um that were cut down to um a couple of feet tall. Maybe the tallest one was
four feet tall. Um so those are the the trees that have been removed. I can't say specifically about ground cover because it's all gone. Um, so well, some of the ground cover was lawn area from
the photos that I presented to the commission or or not very good lawn under tree canopy. Um, when we were out there, it looked like and this was back in 2023.
When when we were out there, it did not not look like healthy, lush lawn growing out in the sun. It looked like um uh backyard with a lot of use and not a
whole lot of grass. So, that's not really the point. The point is from your restoration plan, you should be figuring out where and what to plant. You should be figuring out what to do about the non-native bushes that have been planted
along the driveway. Hostas. Yeah. Yeah. And so just your your plan needs to be comprehensive. Yeah. There's an issue with the hostess. Yeah. The original permission was to
plant five native shrubs as part of the mitigation for doing this work and instead they planted seven hostas which as far as I know are not native. So I don't know where the five native shrubs are that they were supposed to plant and
I'm ignoring the plantings that are foundation plantings. I'm just looking along the driveway where they originally the conditions included five native shrubs. Okay. Well, we we can we can
clear that up. I I wasn't aware of I wasn't aware of that, but I can certainly get a copy of the permit and implement that into this plan. Thanks. Okay. So, at that point, we look to see
you back here on the uh 11th. Okay. All right. All set. Yes. Thank you for your time tonight. Good night. Good night. All right. So, we have an enforcement order that needs to be ratified. Do you
want any I'm going to update it with the new date? They have to come back uh at the June 11th meeting. I think that's the only thing we have to change, right? There wasn't anything else. Yeah. And
then just to emphasize no work happen. Yeah, that's definitely worth emphasizing. I think they got that. Yeah. Okay. And no work includes not taking away the log file. Correct. Okay. All right.
So, this is the enforcement signif. So, you have to vote on this, too. So while he's signing, can I have a motion to ratify the enforcement order for 50 Johanna? So moved. Uh sec. Walter
T seconds. Walter Talbert approves. Not too much. Martha Moore in favor. Rainbow in favor. Okay. Um so while that's going around for signatures, we quickly just
address uh AE comm or whatever it is. A E J A J A I got that here somewhere. J A what you guys? So let's just make sure they're not here. Lost a lot
of participants. So if someone's here for J AE tree service, could you use the raise hand functions? to raise your hands to let us know that you're uh attending this meeting.
As I said, we sent an enforcement hog to you. Not only did I send it to you, I emailed you and I called you and let you know it was coming. So, um it's curious to me that JAE is not here.
There's nobody from them at all. I don't think so. We're looking for Chavez. He told us he was the owner, right? John Chavez. Yeah. Well, is that your signature on top? Uh, nobody's No, it's my signature. It's Chuck. Well, you didn't print your name. So, Brian, you
still need to sign. I know. Okay. Um, you're spark. That's right. It's fine. It's fine. Okay. So, so what's the next step? What What can we do? I mean, we already send an enforcement order. Yep. It's up to the
commission. They uh send them a fine. You can send them uh and you can uh after him come back to the next meeting. What do you want to do? So, I would just assume send him a fine. And I think if we do that, it should not be
the maximum that we can do. And just to be certain we're on the same page, we are allowed to do up to $300 per violation per day is not rectified, right? And there are 14 trees
I think was the total. So it' be 14 trees times $300 per day that is not rectified. So the maximum would be that and some period of time from whenever you mailed the letter
or they should have received it. So what is it a week already? Uh yeah it was um what if they don't pay like what's the legal is it? Yeah they go to superior court
over how long does that take? But like you say over that amount, it keeps on growing per day is not ratified. They just ignore it completely. How long does it take for them to actually go to court? It depends. Well, we have to
issue a new fine every day. So, it it's only going to court for the amount that will be uh sending them this point. I mean, that may not be the best
uh you know option right now. I mean to go to court no finding them at this point. We're unsure whether they know or not. So suppose he was here what would we want to accomplish if he was
here we would be this is my opinion we would have to decide. Personally, I would want to take steps to make it much less likely that this happened again in Reading with that company with that that that
company did so little due diligence again in Reading. There was a stream next to the property and they didn't apparently even think about it from a wetlands perspective. So, but what did the homeowner sell them? Did the homeowner sell them? Was okay? Doesn't matter. That doesn't matter.
They're both. Yes. So, we have a um we have our um regulations and we have some policies on the town website and we've had this policy that we hold the uh the construction company or the contractor equally at fault when they
when work like this happens. So, it's I I think it came went there in like 2011 or something like that. It was 14, sorry. Um, so it's been up there for for a while. And um, usually they come in
and we say, "We'd like to educate you and tell you what's going on." And the point behind that is uh, contractor is going to see. So just say homeowner says, "It's all set. I've gone to conservation, cut the trees down."
That has happened. Right. Right. And they do it. They believe the homeowner. Like what does that go back to? They're responsible for being sure for themselves. Yeah. We had one case where all they had to do was go over the hill and there's open water. So the next time after they get this violation, they'll
say, "Show me the permit." Right. Yeah. That's the whole idea is to try and have them behave better in the future. So if that's the goal, do we say be here next meeting? If you're not here next meeting, then you're subject to a
$4,200 fine, right? And it's 4,200. Well, I'm just times. I know. I I But if you say 4,200 times, I know, but as you folks are aware from previous reason, from previous conversations, I don't
like it when it becomes, you know, and this time we meet it and this time we mean it. I I hate that. So, I'm fine with the idea that we would give them the information now, give them a date certain when they had to be here, had to respond to this. But it's not like Pearl
Street where it's been going for five years. This is their first, as far as I know, their first infraction, their first time. But that's how you get to Pearl Street. Give them two, right? Give them two weeks. If you don't show up then, right, then you're subject to this. These uh Tim, are these
uh this company familiar to you? I'm sure they use cranes and stuff. They are. I mean, they're they're good people. They have good equipment. I don't really know them that well, but I mean, they do a lot of work in the area. I've never heard their name out there doing anything wrong. You
know what I mean? So, I don't know if they know or not or whatever the homeowner told them, but if we if you go ahead and find them now for this one thing. I've never Have you ever heard him doing anything else? I've never recognized this crew in town. I get their cards in my mail wiggly. So that's
curious to me, right? So that's But like I said, like is like have you ever had to have you ever find them before? Come across sold. I agree with the idea that we would give them um two weeks. It's a more direct
communication. Two weeks, but I do not want this to go. No, you don't want it to happen again. I just like it's not like it's a I've never heard of them doing. Did you see the enforcement on it? Isn't that then the if statement? If then if if not here in two weeks then
$4,200 that does that get him here? Is this just came up what? Two weeks ago. Did this just happen? Yeah, it it did. But but I know but I talked to them. I called them He talked him out on the site. I called him on the phone and
asked for his address. I asked him if he understood. Yeah. See, I don't know any of the context of the whole He said he did and I said, "I'm sending you something. Can I have your email address?" He told me the same one that was on the website and I'm said, "I'm sending it now." You just think he's ignoring it. I
don't I don't know. I don't know. I don't think it ruffles my feathers that they're not here. A little miscommunication could have happened. I get it. But I think we need to get make sure that we know that they receive this
information. Do you do it certified mailing? I I uh called talked to the owner. I asked for his an address where I could send this the uh enforcement order and I asked for their email address which he gave me which
matched what was on the site. And I told him I was going to do this and I told him what it was. that were asking him to come to the meeting. In fact, on the day of, but he did have a very thick accent. So,
something could have been lost between the two. On the day of, we talked to the crew. We stopped them. They asked us if we would wait for the owner, John Chavez, to come and we did. So, we talked to him directly. We told him
there would be an enforcement order for coming. So he knew it the day of he knew it from Chuck's conversation. So he heard it twice that this was coming and so I just think he's blown it off. Awesome. I've never heard of this company in town
or heard from them or seen them. So So look, let's not believe this anymore. um at this point give them two weeks direct communication um with an or else is that and Tim what I think what we're what we're trying to do with the with the contractor is
educate them so that they're more of um they're supporting the conservation commission when they're at the next site. And we want all the contractors when they're bidding um to know that they should all say you need to get a conservation permit because the one person that says you don't have to get
it and he's the lower, you know, he's going to be the lowest, right? But that doesn't happen because I have at least five that go to this town all the time to tell everybody that they need a conservation permit. Didn't happen at the beginning, but it does happen now. Oh, yeah. Everyone does it now pretty
much. Pretty much. Yep. Just a comment. Can we use the homeowner and Morin Herald to communicate also with the JA tree service? They clearly have been able to reach them because they're the
ones who hired them. So um I don't know if we can we can do that. I think this is uh certainly could ask but um I think direct communication is not probably more legal anyway. More of a truth and Tim suggested certified mail. I think
you know maybe send one more letter and get a signature that the letter has actually been received. Yeah. So that I did send certified mail on the enforcement order. Thank you. Okay. So then then they know. Okay. So that's I didn't receive anything back. Oh yeah. You
didn't get the the slip back from the certified? No, it takes it takes an incredibly long time. I got the the receipt back as a track. Yeah, I can track it. But okay, it only it's only Oh yeah, I should track it,
you know, realized tonight when no one's here. Okay, so um if you're sending another letter to say sorry you couldn't make it, please come next. I'm not going to say sorry you couldn't make it. Whatever. But you know, that's the gist of it. You know, you didn't come. We
want to see. I think I'm going to update the enforcement order. Yeah. And and I think I'm going to direct the commission to tell me to update the enforcement order. Ask him to come to the next meeting or fines will be issued. And I would like you to send that one again by
certified mail. Update the enforcement order. Tell him to come to the next meeting or we start with the fine process. Yeah. You don't like that threeletter word sentence? just wait till you're on five years. You understand? Well, like I said, like the
Pearl Street thing, you've been going on for five years and they haven't got fined at all. This guy's been going on two weeks and you're hammering them. So, that's just my, you know, that's my viewpoint of it. Like that guy has been going and going and going and going. Actually wasn't suggesting we we find him the highest amount. In fact, I
started by saying we wouldn't. What I wanted to do is tell them tell him this is what we could. Oh, absolutely. This is what I agree with that. a business week. That's fine. I mean, we can we can choose strategy later.
Okay. Having said that, make a motion, I move that Chuck update the enforcement order and send it out again as as discussed. As discussed. Walter Talbot seconds it. Walter Talbot
approves it. Michelle in favor. Martha Moore in favor. More in favor. Okay. As long as we're going out of order, we want to address 692 Pearl Street. Yeah, maybe it's not even out of order. Okay, 692 Pearl Street. At this
point, I believe everybody has been there for a visit. Um, so we've been there, we've heard your position there, but why don't you give us a quick uh overview for the record. Thank you for all coming to my
property, seeing that, seeing what I've had to deal with. just a short period of time. Uh, every day, last couple weeks, it's been very windy. Don't enjoy being in my backyard at all. I think in the backyard, it should be a safe environment. Everybody living
there, gas, you know, I hope to have kids one day that they can play in their backyard safely without the worry of a tree limb or one of these pine trees coming down, ripping through the house.
I had David Andrews, Pam Fitzpatrick, others come to the property. Um, acknowledging the huge risk that I have around my property, all within 15 to 60 feet from the property, I do believe I'm over 100, these trees
are over 100 feet from the buffer zone. I shouldn't have an issue here. Like I said before, I'm willing to give the $500 donation to the conservation. I'm willing to help out, clean up some trails. Fortunately, I don't think I'm going to make it this
Saturday. um pardon, but no, do my part and be a um that's what I'm trying to do and provide safety to my home for the foreseeable future and not only me, my wife, but for our family.
Yeah. So, I I'm I'm interested too because I know the commission went out there. I want to know what they found out about where the wetland line was, where the trees are outside of it or inside of it, and if they came to a conclusion about uh and maybe it's good
to know that we do have a tree permit in the system waiting to have some action on it. So, a tree permit is usually four or less trees and then that donation uh well uh so that donation is to replant
trees either at uh somewhere else in town if you don't want to plant them on your property, but it's not always your choice. The commission may insist in plant replanting trees on your property or some of them. So I since you're maybe
over the four trees, it's outside of my hands. It's up to their hands and everything's an option. They can say replant every tree, you know, whatever they say. But anyways, I do I'm interested too to find
out. I've been there quite a few times and dealt with the old homeowner too on this. What was the old homer homeowner asking for? Um, there was a tree in the front of the house that they were concerned about and there was some trees on the side of the
house and I think that they ended up taking trimming up some trees and taking a few down but they didn't want to touch the one on the front of the house um because of the requirement to get an arous to say that
it's declining health or something like that. So it looked it looked uh better six years ago. Was that the town own tree? No, that's
not a town tree. So I will start when we went out by coincidence DW was there from an a tree in front of the house. Um which personally scared me because I thought all of a sudden there were trees
being taken down without permit. Um, I I don't I can't afford the stress of my heart. Um, uh, first point of interest is there's a very large pine tree, uh, just next to the driveway, which I thought just
eyeballing it would be a town tree. Rick said that Mike Hannerford has told him that's not town tree. I didn't hear that. Sorry, I didn't hear that directly from Mike. I had the land surveyed and from the point where I put that on a
poster myself and u it looks to me like that is my tree which I think you and I had discussed in the past. Um I I'll be the one removing that unfortunately. All right. Is that the tree with the double trunk? Yeah, that's the Okay. Massive. That doesn't So at
the end of this if we forget to say it, I'm going to say it now. You should probably just verify that with a tree warden because their fines are uh you know grossly disproportionate to ours. So that would be Mike, right? Mike Hanner. Yeah.
Okay. So then we went to the backyard and looked at these trees. Yes, they are in fact uh towering pines. I think you said 23 trees or something. 21 pine trees. 21 pine trees and two what? Oaks.
Um there were a few that you know double leader uh some had some not holes in them but in general looking at them they didn't look unhealthy they just looked tall.
Um let's see. We did uh take a gander at the stream to see if we could solve the question about which way the water is flowing. Wasn't flowing any direction. And besides, Walter didn't bring his ducky to let it float
anyway. So, we did not determine for certain which way it was flowing. Um, but that may be something we have to look at if there's a range. I've been obviously on the property. What I will say is gravity is pulling it
the direction of the resource here which is why I think that was engineered from the street to the back. Correct. Which is why I think that was engineered in the first place. It was a man-made ditch or a constructed swale however you want to call it. Those are those were designed to last was about 25 to 50
years. And if designed properly and well maintained, which I'm trying to do now by raking inside you seen it, u the water should resolve or or uh within 24 to 48 hours. So what as you noticed there, the water
wasn't flowing because it's clogged up towards the resource area. That would be the upgradient area of the stream. An intermittent brook by definition would be my jurisdiction as it exits the resource area that becomes a your
jurisdiction whether it's intermittent or seasonal. So there is a blockage in the stream. There's uh branches and leaves that built up a small blockage which contributes to it not flowing although the water level wasn't
conducive to a flow anyway. Um the uh wetland that Rick refers to is the wetland back right of his property. Um I am not 100% sure if that is
a intermittent stream or what have you which would affect because if it is obviously there's 100 feet in from that so we have to ascertain that which I did not have a chance to do. Um, so what is what is the question? Is
that is that an intermittent stream or is it a perennial stream? It's definitely intermittent. Okay. So it's not a 100 foot buffer from that. It is 100 foot buffer. That was only from perennial. No, perennial has a 200 foot buffer. Okay. That's a
river. See, we're all learning something. But even from the exits of that resource area, it's still in well beyond 200 feet. Um the exit of which resource? The wetland that you were just referring to. No, but I'm talking about the stream
alongside your propert which we just learned it still has 100 foot buffer 100 ft from the from that stream from the stream. Yeah. Jurisdictional on a local level. No, D also
was my understanding because that's the upgrading level of the resource area that it doesn't fall within wetland jurisdiction. So the this so there's a wetland across the street and there's a wetland in back of the house next to you. So whichever way the flow is going,
it's coming out of a wetland. So, it's jurisdictional and there's a direct connection, hydraulic connection. There is a stream across the street. The wetland across the street. Wetland across the street. I was listening to the spring peepers in it the day I first
met you. So, there's a culvert across the street and the backyard of that house across the street is suspected to be uh BBW. So, what So, I don't know what you're saying like upgrading. So um
because so a stream a ditch by itself unless it shows signs of like vegetation hydrarology or groundwater right within the first 12 inches is not going to be jurisdictional. But this seems to
be it's something to have that even without the fact that it's either flowing out of the wetland that's uh in back of the house next to you or flowing out of the wetland across the street. So it's coming out of a wetland. So it's jurisdictional. The culvert that's under
the street is higher at your side than it is across the street. So which would make me think that the wetland ac next to you same side the wetland there the water flows from that wetland into the
stream and across the street. Now I will let you know that there's some difference of opinion amongst the wetland scientists uh that I've run into across the street. No, no one's really made a conclusion, but it would be great
if someone was there when it was flowing and we could make a determination. But still, we have a wetland on either side, so it doesn't really matter. So, it's jurisdictional. It's been called jurisdictional the whole time. So, I think you're you just need to draw
the 100 foot buffer zone and then find out how many trees are in it from the stream, which was never an issue. But where's the wetland that's that's further in back of the house? And then what we always do, this isn't like, oh
my god, there's a problem. The commission has always recognized that trees next to a house, something needs to happen. But we need to know we need to know a count of how many trees are within that wetland buffer. And I thought that's what you were doing when
you went out there. So what what I would say is what we need for you from you is something on paper that can go into the record that shows the stream. It doesn't have to be surveyed or anything but shows the stream the 100 foot the distance from
the back wetland and indicating which of your 23 trees. Um well let's let's do you know this guy's been here forever. So, why don't you and me go out there and then finish off this situation and come back to the commission with some
information. So, I found an old map, too. Yeah. You can actually see that shed briefly in it and they did the 100 mark. Looks like that shed was right on the 100 foot mark from the stream or
from that wetland over in the should be something on paper that Yeah, we'll have to we'll have to put it on paper, but I mean not we're not questioning engineered compared to the wetland. We're questioning compared to
the stream that borders your driveway intermittent stream man-made ditch. Yeah. So maybe we can just go to that. That's what we're considering jurisdictional. And until you can prove that's not jurisdictional, I'm standing by. I think that's jurisdictional. In
fact, in in our bylaws, it does say that even drainage ditches count. They're jurisdictional. So that distinction isn't one ready. If it were a river, it would be 200 feet. I realize I pulled permits from
other properties, seen what they're like. I do not believe I'm in any situation like these folks. Many permits. You've pulled permits on on this on on Yep. Yep. Any tree removal? 24 dash,
whatever. I've pulled them all. I've looked them up on the read and GIS to see where they're located, how far away the trees were removed. Oh, you were just doing research. Oh, yeah. Oh, okay. You weren't uh He thought you submitted I thought you were submitting them. Yeah. All right. So, I'm gonna go to your site
and we're gonna quickly I know it might not take it would take forever, but go to your site and the wetland boundaries quickly. But this is the one we're concerned
about. Would you agree with me that there is a concern with the trees? Would I agree with you? What is a concern with the trees that I have in my backyard? Decide whether we approve of them coming down. Well, I I will agree that that I know that the commission has
allowed trees to be cut down because they're in close proximity to the house. So, I think that that's just trying to figure out you can't take like The only thing I'm trying to do is get you to that point where they can make a decision. We need to know how many trees are outside the 100 foot, you can't say
anything about but the ones that are in 100 foot down and let the commission know how many you want to take down and how close they are because some of them may not matter and they might be something about like
a yard or something like that. But I'm going to just draw this quickly. I'll do it on But talk to Chuck about it. Do it here. Be entertained. Talk to Chuck. So there's a stream, but I was supposed No, just Yeah. No, it's a good question
because it has been addressed previously. Well, because I asked for a mirror at the end of my street. They said, "No, want to go right angles." If I come down and hit a kid, it was legal. Wow. Oh, so complain and don't TBW really don't
know. Yeah. So that's kind of how how I look at it. That's enough to our line. Connecting the dots kind of messed up here. Do one more bricks for clear
line. These are all off of that. You could even say that, you know, I'm going to grab one from over here. Where we at now? We had that problem, too. All right. So, now draw our line. One, two.
I'm glad he wasn't planning the Normandy invasion with this tool. I might have missed the beach. Oh, look at you. I would say that everything in this area here is
uh within the 100 foot buffer zone on your side. I didn't do the other side of the street. Say that's probably about 80% of them. Say, yeah, 80% of my trees. And how many
trees? 28 would you say? No. No, there's 21 pine trees. Two oaks. There's one oak that I didn't when we were walking down towards I failed to mention that to you. There's one oak right on that ditch as well that's dead dying. Probably dead
and it's leaning directly at the house. Pardon? There's one um I I put on the application right there. Is that this one here? No, that's the oak that David Andrew said he would recommend removing because there's another one behind my shed that
is dying and that's going to be a similar situation. I'll find I took I printed this all out. It was this one. Marco diagonal right side focus point. Okay. Don't think I
got a picture of that one. Wait a minute. Show it to me one more time. That's That's the entire deal. It's not this one. Oh, okay. Yeah, I remember that one. Here's what I see. Pine, pine, pine, fine, fine, fine. You know, like all
these pines doesn't look like a mess in here. Two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11, 12, 13. Maybe this is different now. But um you would you would catch this one
too. You could on the upper point. You kind of focus and you can pivot. This is his property. You can grab it. There you go. That's his property. So it's really what's in here. that we're talking about and would cover
this area too. Sorry to be picky. What I'm saying is if this is your point of your feet would be pivoted. Oh yeah, you grab those. So this triangle Yeah. It's the entire It's It's the
entire yard. I drew it poorly except for what's here and this outside corn. Yeah. So most of the yard is in our jurisdiction. There's a triangle at the back that is not.
This is the only part black is the only part that's not within our jurisdiction. And then the question becomes what decision we would need to make about the interests of the wetland
versus the interests of the homeowner. Well, I I think you need the information in front of you and I just, you know, I don't want to belabor this any longer. I want to expedite to getting you the information so you can make a decision.
20 trees is beyond any approval that I can make. So, I might as well just go out there and work on a plan and and and let you guys know and I'll let you know when we're deciding to go out there unless you want to talk about it now.
So, who's going out there and who's working on the plan? I'm going to work Well, can you do make a plan up? How would you like me to do it? I'm gonna make a plan up. I'm gonna meet the homeowner out there. We're gonna talk about the trees he wants to take down
and we'll measure from those trees to the house and try to make the commission understand how close they are and if they fell what would happen. often we have had
um an arborist report and I know you've had a tree guy out there. Do you have a written report or just the stripes around the trees? There is a letter that was submitted in the application. Who who are you working with the company? Have you chosen one? Um I I did
choose Pam Fitzgerald from Northeast. Okay. David Andrews was did a great job. Um worked with me. I wanted to give him the business at the end of the day. He told me, "Rick, you can't beat Pam. Save yourself a couple thousand dollars and do
it." All right. All right. So, uh, Northeast has an aist on their staff, and so they could evaluate the trees, too. But we just have to I mean, this just has to get sped up
a bit. You know, this has taken a while. So, well, this is the first time it's officially come before the commission because last time he just showed up and said, "I want to talk to you." But he wasn't on the agenda. No, but he did submit the uh he did
submit the permit a while ago. I don't know the date. And so when he started showing up, the permit didn't get finalized. So I was waiting for the commission to say this is an RDA. it's fine to take them
down. They're so dangerous. There's so many dead ones out there. Uh, you know, I don't know what what you would have said, but there could have been many options. So, I think the best thing to do would be to
um, you know, look at the trees unless you have uh, made up your mind on a few trees that and then just come back. Oh, no. The issue in my mind is that most of the trees look
healthy. The flaw is they're tall and near the house. Mhm. But it's not like you're seeing tops that are bare or there's no more missing branches than is normal for a pine tree, you know. And so that to me
was the issue is that yet why he wants to reduce the risk of them being near the house at the same time I didn't want to have to go through and say get an arburous report on every one of these trees. Um
uh I don't think that you're going to get so we we've gotten a few arous reports independent and they're quite different from the oper company. So, um, you're not going to get that kind of report. Yeah. I I was thinking back to
West Street where the arborist went through and said multi- leader, that's dangerous, this, that. So, is that kind of a quick shoot from the hip kind of an assessment? And looking at it, I could see some that were multiple leaders, not
the majority. And there weren't a lot with any apparent rot. There were none that I saw that had any uh soil stress marks from the tree swaying near the bottom of the tree. And so looking at it with my love of understanding, I said
most of them look healthy, not all. And so I thought we'd come here and talk about what to do about situation where the imminent drive is from the being tall. It looks because it's not because
of the health of the tree. I as we know a tree can look healthy and fall down tomorrow, right? Or it can look like it has some issues in the last 10 years. Yeah. I just really don't want something to happen. lost something in 2016 from a
branch falling on yesterday somebody died at Franken Park. I do not want this to happen to one of my family members or somebody on my property. I get it. Yeah. I mean, you said it out there and we agreed with you there. But then the problem is what do we do on the interest of of the wetlands that we that we're
supposed to protect? Um, and I don't want to be the the hard guy and just say you can't cut them because none of them look like they're dead. If anything, it sounds like you need a report to read.
I think that would give us something definitive to say based on that report. Um, so it's it sounds like I'll step even further back. When you were out there, you decided that, and I don't know if anyone, this has to be mission,
have to say this, right? You decided that the trees looked healthy. You didn't other than the proximity to the house, you didn't see anything that concerned you for the most. Depends on the tree. There were some with that. Well, there was something that concerned
you. You should flag them and told them they could take those ones down. So, Brian was going to write the report. Okay. So I was working the election. All right. So we can Are they Are the trees that are dangerous in your opinion
going to fall in the house? Okay. Is that up to the expert to to deem that though? Like he's hired Well, I don't know. I mean, anyone can recognize a tree that's really bad and then just split right in the middle we're leading. Multi leader.
Yes. There's the one in the corner for the driveway and there was a few other ones, but there was there was some that were really I've been doing this a long time. There's a couple there that really scared. There were definitely some multi- liter ones that I would be fine with coming down. There was many that
were just single liter, no obvious signs of decay or anything. They just felt striking region. So the ones that those three or four should flag to be removed You should have given your permission to
take those down. He doesn't break that'll save him. And the ones that looked okay. I mean, you know, your evaluation
you could say, I don't have enough information. Well, you can trim a tree, right? And go out there and evaluate, right? I don't know if you want Pam from that very tree to do the evaluation and we
did talk about that that um an arborist that works for a tree company more likely to give you a paper. Yes. Can I ask a couple of questions? Sure. Um, when we were out there, one of the
things that was really obvious to me is that the homeowner has been raking up all the leaf litter in the forest and leaving bare ground. The uh the natural ground cover that you expect to see under pine trees has all been raked
clean. And um that indicates to me um sort of not understanding the forest ecosystem. And I'm wondering what you're expecting to have in your backyard once
the towering pines have been taken down. Is it going to be all sod grass or is it going to be um understory forest or are you going to replant trees that will grow and a hundred years from now somebody else will have the same problem
as you but it's not your problem because they're only 8 foot trees when you plant them. So, that's one of the things I would like to know when we're making the decision of what to do about these trees is what's going to be there when we're
done because I would like to see the habitat protected and not just turned into a football field. I don't want it to be a football field. What I want it to be is something that I could enjoy,
my kids could enjoy safely in the backyard. something that I grew up with in North Reading, a nice yard. That's what I want without any issues of branches falling down, a trees falling on a house. I do not want that to happen. So, you want this whole place
with not a single tree. No, I didn't say a not a single tree. So, when you say a nice yard, what are you actually envisioning? I don't know what your north threading yard look like. My yard has giant pine trees in it.
ious grass, something that I grew up with. Okay. Grass is not a ecosystem that I would approve of. I would like to see shrubs, some some sort of trees, maybe
put in oak trees or red maples or, you know, um something that has habitat value for the wildlife. Well, where you're taking away all this habitat value, what habitat value would you be returning? And I would be much more
likely to approve this project if what I saw going back in was not lawn. That's sort of where I'm coming from on this. I'm looking for the habitat value that is provided by this
forest that you would like to get rid of the danger but I would like to preserve the habitat and somehow we need to find a way to meet in the middle there where you don't have danger and the wildlife gets habitat. So that's why I wanted to know
what you were envisioning because what I saw was all of the um Canada Mayflower and the ferns and everything else was taken away by your raking efforts. And I
would have loved to see them still there and know that that was something that you were valuing in the backyard and not planning to take out all of these pine trees and try to grow grass in this very acidic soil that has had pine needles in
it for hundreds of years or aundred years anyway. Okay. But as a homeowner, don't you have the right to break your yard? I mean, maybe I'm not within a 100 feet of the wetland. You you you are under
jurisdiction of the conservation commission. So, anything that falls, you have to leave. I didn't say that. No, but that's what I meant. But think about the yard next door to you. Didn't we come in and say, "No, you can't put a hockey thing in your next door yard." Yeah. I had to jackhammer it up. Right.
Right. So but but you can break and pick up like leaves and sticks and stuff like that. Goes back to the interest of the um that are listed in the wetland protection act. So uh anything you do that is
against those interests uh you can't do. And so if that includes raking something clear and taking away that natural habitat which is part of the overall forest ecosystem, yes, that is altering
things. You you just you can't just do it. If you're within the various jurisdictional boundaries, then have to follow the rules, those jurisdictions. Yeah. And you know the the way that yard was raked looked to me like that erosion
could be so like my yard has grass within the 100 feet. I can't mow my grass. Like it's the same thing as raking, isn't it? I mean this is just I'm asking questions. I don't know. Your grass was previously established. You didn't come in and take
away all the bushes and put in the grass. Your yard had If it was already there, you could maintain. Yeah. And you know, like um the the people who were here earlier tonight from 119 Winthre, they have a lot of yard within
what should be the 25- foot natural vegetation zone, and we asked them to put in a three-foot strip of natural vegetation. We didn't make them make the the natural vegetation extend all the way up into halfway through their back
porch because that's where it should be if it's 25 foot natural vegetation zone. So, so you know, we are trying to protect the wetlands without being ridiculous about it,
right? Um, and so I'm saying you have a forest. I don't want to see your forest go away and become lawn. If I see you bought a house that has lawn, you can maintain the lawn that was
there, but the house he chose to buy doesn't have lawn. I would like to maintain the habitat value. I'm sympathetic with him because when he bought the house, he didn't know what he buying because he didn't have enough time to research it. So that's just I'm just like Well, he knew it had big tall trees. He didn't know it was in the 100
foot buffer zone when he bought it. Trust me. When I bought mine, it was the same. That's I'm just trying to learn as far as like what's So, but that's that's where you know I understand that some of these trees would definitely need to come down. What
I want to know is what's going to be there in their place. And the guy at 550 West Street planted 500 blueberry bushes and eight trees and, you know, blah blah blah. he came back with a planting plan
that um helped to mitigate the loss of the pine trees he took down. And that's the kind of thing I'm looking for from you. And all I'm hearing is lawn, a nice yard, grass, and that's not a planting
plan in my opinion. And I have areas within the plot where I could plant shrubs and trees. I do. Okay. Okay. Well, I mean, Chuck, we talked about when you went on the property when the day I So, that's what I want you to come to. So, hang on. So, we've gone round
and round. It's past my bedtime. I agree with Chuck that we need to speed this up. Chuck has volunteered to go out there with you and look at the trees. Chuck is aware of obviously the uh the
act and everything and the interests. He's now aware of your concerns, which I agree with, are the same ones we had of West Street, the same ones we had earlier tonight on Johanna about not letting what was trees become lawn. And
so I think that the next step here is to have that step happen, have something in front of us to base it on rather than where we're stuck right now. Yeah. My concern is is that going to satisfy you because there's
there's it sounds like um there's more trees out there than I could approve and there's a bigger project out there than the commission is going to be able to uh digest in just a
conversation without plans and an action plan and a reveation plan. Yeah, I I think that's likely. I mean, I'm certainly not going to be on board with taking down 23 trees. Um, if they're
close to I mean, we have to have to weigh different factors if they're close. That's true. But there are a lot of houses in Reading with three close to the house. You can't take them all down. We would never prove that if they're in our jurisdictional area. So, you're looking for a little bit more like which ones are
dangerous. And having a report to point to would help. So understanding that the most of the yard is within the 100 buffer zone, not understanding what your project is, you might want
to rethink this. The trees that are dangerous can come down right away. If you're concerned about them, I want you to call Northeast tomorrow. You've told us that you want people that are going to work there and you have my permission, the commission's permission
to take them down right away. So, three with the cracks in them. Okay. Since there's cracks in them, yes, multiple. I would say the one leaning across the driveway over the house, I would think is a good candidate to come down. But it's a small number. It's not
the majority of 20. But the ones that you mentioned that he's mentioned, there's pictures of those should come down. Yes. Right away. And if Pam has another one out there that you got no one mentioned and she calls it out as a dangerous tree. like five trees coming
down right away or I would be surprised if it was more than the three or so that you mentioned. I would say there's five or fewer. Okay. So, I would agree to have him take down up to five trees right away without having to come back
to the commission. If he wants to go to more than five trees, I want to know which trees we're talking about and what he's going to plant in their place. We're we're going to know what trees he talked about. the the ones that are dangerous, they're going to have to ID them. Okay. But I still want to know
what they can come down right away. Yeah. They All right. So Okay. So So if he's taking down five trees and he puts up five blueberry bushes, you know, fine. The majority of the cost is when they return. No, I I know I we're we're
we're getting the the we're getting the uh the liability off us by telling you you can do it and putting it on you. If you choose to save money and wait to do it all at once, then then that you've already been given
permission to take down those trees, the dead ones, the ones that are at risk, the ones that they've identified. And if there's any more than those three, then Pam has to reach out to me. David Andrews noted 15 trees. Yeah. Out of the
21. Yeah. So, I'd have to look at those trees because I'm sure some of them are too far away and leaning in the wrong direction so they wouldn't hit the house. But if they are, then then we have something to talk about. But that would probably be a good uh site visit to go over those trees that you think
are dangerous and should come down right away. Um, so that would be a good thing to do. And the next step that I see from what I'm hearing here is you have a bigger plan than we're hearing about. And and the way that that's usually handled is
with a permit that incorporates removing the trees, building whatever patio, porch, deck, working the lawn, and turning it into whatever with all your landscaping areas. and we look at that all at once
as one big project and that can incorporate the trees also but we just don't want to have these dangerous trees standing there. So the and and the whole idea behind that is to not peacemail us just bring it all in. If you haven't thought about it hire an landscape
architect to take you to the finish line. Yeah. Yeah. So house was $921,000 for a 1700 foot home. Kind of sucks, you know. I'm not really happy with my situation. Okay. But then I don't think it would be either trying to get you out of the pots that that I can handle and
they can handle, but as far as like all the other the other pots and you know the thing about it is you you're saying you're disappointed with the house, but you have a great house in Reading and someone else is going to feel that. And with these improvements that you make,
it's even better. So it's not like you're going backwards. So, so, but you need a permit and we got to get rid of the dead the bad trees. The trees that are dangerous. Okay, let's move on. So, you and me want to meet I don't know if you want to bring that guy out there,
David. Yeah. Or whoever wants to ID the trees business anymore. That's going to be the problem. What's that? He He doesn't have the business anymore. So, I don't know. Would Pam be better giving her the business? I think it's fair. Yeah. Oh, Pam Pam's fine if she's IDed some trees,
but if it's the obvious ones with the cracks in them, we don't need help. I just the cost of bringing them back. That's okay. Just moved in. Oh, reach out tomorrow. Uh, all right. We'll see if find a spot.
All right, Martha, can we put off your presentation? Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I wasn't planning on I requested next month. Absolutely. Oh, yeah. Um, so why don't we um consider the uh approval of funds for
birch metal casting fields pollinator garden? Um, that should be Want to do another fun one or you want to let Mike Rivers hang out for a minute? Oh, I didn't know he was on. He's on you. You good for this?
It's a funny word. Mike, are you there? Yeah, I'm here. Thanks for your patience. It's all right. Yeah, I got a couple more hours and then I can wake up and go to work. All
right. So, I don't know if you guys saw Mike's write up. Uh he modified the um western uh Williamson sporadish sporades plan uh letting us know that he's going to
remove the retaining wall after he fixes the northern side of the bank and some other things. But if you didn't review it, it's not uh I did not review it. All right, Mike, do you want to let us uh want want to try to walk the commission
through the modifications you made? Sure. Um, it it's it is exactly the same plan minus two items on the schedule. Everything else is
identical. That's um I don't have it in front of me, but I think it's um number line three. is where I have that uh wall in that timber wall. Now at would remain in to
be able to have the platform to work from with the excavator from the south side. Establish the um stream channel bed and the northern side bank.
Do all that work from the south side on that. um shoring wall platform. And then as that gets completed, we'll be taking out the wall and doing the southern bank from the
driveway side from the south side. And that's the only difference. We're waiting for Chuck to put it up. That's why we're all sitting here not. All right. He's staring intently at his
computer screen. I'm trying to figure out if this is it. No. I know. I sent it to you guys. I thought the screen froze for a second there. Is this the plan modified April 25th?
Yeah, they were all He never changed that. But it's the plan. What What date do you have? That's the only Well, there's only two that have dates on, but one's back in February. So, the most recent one with the date in the title is April 25th.
And you're looking on the conservation website. It says restoration plan modified April 25th. Yeah. Just um I don't know why, but it don't won't search rivers.
Um, did you attach it to the email you just sent out to us with meeting minutes and notes? Probably did. Oh, here's something. I I sent it to you Monday. If that helps you at all. Yeah, that will help. Okay, let's get rid of this and go
back to Monday. It was Monday at 10:56 or Oh, wait. Yeah, 10:56 a.m. My god. There you go. Yeah, thank you. Found it. Nice.
All right. So uh most of this is the enforcement order and some of the changes that were made. These are just highlighted. These are the changes that were made. Um so construction to begin again when
dry period has begun. Uh best guess is June at the earliest depending on the weather and then we have some an additional uh so we already approved what's in black it's the red which was not which is updated temporary shoring
of the wall in place on the southern limits of the channel machine access to the north bank limited uh install means and methods to enable work to begin wet season as requested by the conservation commission. I think that's dry season.
But um then it says at the bottom this is temporary shoring wall to be removed once the northern bank and channel are established as directed in the approved document. So these are
new from uh you know additions that were were added. Um, and Mike has let me know that the retaining wall was always going to come down, so that's never an issue. And, uh, it's just there as a temporary
structure to access the other bank. Okay. And can you see that? Let me uh, and what's going to be done on the far bank? Is that where we're going to be putting quar logs and stake and and um Well,
it's all as per It's as as per the approved plan, original approved plan with uh yeah, coconut core logs. um some um um willow
staking, high density staking, as well as the regular staking by the core log along every foot, you know, as it's detailed exactly how it's detailed in the in the plan drawing. Yeah. But that
plan was made before a whole pile of dirt from the southern bank was piled onto the northern bank. So I'm wondering what you're going to do about that dirt and debris on the northern
bank when you're preparing to plant your plants and put in your quarrel logs. Are you just going to leave that stuff there and plant on top of it or are you going to um dig out some of that stuff that you put there?
Yeah, some of that stuff is going to get some of that stuff is going to get dug out so it can match the exactly the drawing to match the previous slope and the slope in in the drawing. Okay. Yeah. And
what are you going to do with that material that you put there when you dig it out? Well, whenever I if I have a surplus, I'll have it taken away. Why would you have a surplus? If you took it from one side and put in the
other side and you're bringing it back, where' the extra come from? Well, that means I probably won't have a surplus. I don't know what to tell you. I I have I have elevations on the drawing. It's all right drawn. So, I'm
going to make it match the drawing one side. We see what happens on one side and then approve the next step. Okay. Um, so are you proposing to do this work
yourself? Uh, well with other laborers. Yes. All right. Um, so what Chuck just suggested makes sense to me at least, which is to have
you address the one side and then we would take a look at it at that point before we uh authorized you to go ahead and do the other side. The one side being the north, right? That's when he has to clear up first from the south
side. Yeah. So, I'll set everything all up, bring in a machine, do half the job, and then send everything out and get approval and then bring everything back in again. No, I think the commission is
uh sufficiently staffed and the and the conservation commission themselves are around 247, so we can get people out there to approve. So, that shouldn't be an issue. Oh. Oh, great. So I I can just call for an inspection kind of slick.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Give us an give us a heads up, but we can get somebody help. Yeah. I can That shouldn't be a problem. When you know you're going to be doing the work, you can let Chuck know that you're planning to do the work at a certain time so he can give us a
heads up to clear our schedule to come see what's going on. Yeah. Yeah. When are you planning to do this work? Well, it's I mean it's depends on the weather. So I mean typically some years, you
know, the end of right around June, the end of June, it's dry there. Okay. So and other years, other years it's, you know, it'll be July and and it's still wet. Depending on the end of June, you may have to adjust depending on the weather, but the plan at the end of June. Yeah, I
think that will be the the earliest I'd ever seen it dry up. But And is it going to be a week to do the the one side, the one bank? Yeah, I probably be uh you know, probably about a week.
Okay. So, end of June, beginning of July, we should expect you to contact Chuck to say you're ready for us to come take a gander on the North Bank. Yep. is I'm gonna So, we're going to update the enforcement order with this information and I'm going to say I'm
going to uh put in the enforcement order. Then I think and you tell me right now if you don't think so. The first thing you're going to do is shape the slope, but you're going to be putting those Cy logs pretty much first and then building off of that. Is that
true? I'll probably be be pulling some of the material to set the slope on the far bank and then and doing the channel, you know, the channel at the same time kind of, you know, but I don't want to pull I
don't want to pull material down, you know, because I'm pulling it towards me and disturb the coconut core logs and ruin the stream bed. You know what I mean? I want to pull the make the slope, carve out the bottom of the stream bed,
install my coal log, set my, you know, uh, three three to four inch stone, and then on the South Bank when I do get to that point, I'll be pulling it away from the stream bed. So, I think that's the best way to u protect the stream bed during the construction. Well, obviously
you're going to have to take extreme care not to pull stuff into or drop stuff into the stream as you're bringing it from the north bank to the South Bank. Right. Well, this is why the it's critical to do it during the dry season.
None of that matters at that point. You know, if there's no if there's no water at all, it's a dry time. So, I just wanted to establish we need to be there when he starts because that's critical and then intimate and and then
to sign off. Yeah. So, Mike, you heard that, right? So, you're going to notify before you start. Yes. 72 hours notice blah blah blah. So, we can be there, too. Okay. I mean, I I'll be able to, you know, work with the
forecast and once it's dry and I see there's no rain coming up for a certain amount of days, then I'll I'll let uh Chuck know and that'll give them and I I I'll have to, you know, pull my equipment together and everything else, too. So, should be should be ample
notification. Okay. So Chuck's going to update the enforcement order, get it out to you, and we expect to hear from you again later on in June. Yep, sounds good. We want we
um Yeah. Okay. I was thinking like how does he get a hold of us? Is it you want to give him I can I can put in the post order. I could your phone number. I could put my phone number like not have I assume conservation office. Yeah. So
Mike, when you call the conservation office, I can get those messages on my iPad. So it's fine to do that. It's fine to email. That's why it's important to give notice, right? Because it's it's, you
know, walking, you're not walking around the iPad on the weekend when you're out there mowing the lawn or something. So uh I got to get some notice to even check if I even thought this was happening. So yeah, I mean I I'm I'm look I'm thinking maybe almost two weeks
or something like that I'd be able because I I I have to pull everything together too. So Right. Okay. Uh yeah, it won't be anything last minute. It won't be a couple of days. It'll be at least a week to two weeks. So
Okay. Okay. I think that's good. Awesome. Great. Thank you. Okay. Now, do you want to cover the uh casting field pollinated garden funds? Can I move to
No, go ahead. I'm going to read his letter at least, right? Oh, okay. Fine. Dear members of the conservation commission, I'm writing to respectfully to request the funding of the amount of $500 to support continuing development maintenance of the pollinator garden at Birch Meadow. This garden plays an important role in supporting local
biodiversity and providing essential habitat for food source of bees, butterflies and other pollinators within the funding. With this funding, we plan to purchase additional uh native plants, mulch, compost, and enhance the
ecological functions of the community uh and community engagement. Pollinator garden aligns closely with the conservation's mission to protect, enhance our natural resources. Your support will help ensure the garden continues to thrive, serve, and an
educational and environmental asset for the community. Thank you for your consideration. I'd be happy to provide more information and details. Uh if you need to discuss this further, Phil Perkins. Sincerely, Phil Perkins. I before I make a motion, I just want to
comment that when I drive by Birch Meadow uh Castine Field now, it does look like vegetation is um taking root in all that soil that you put down last year. I didn't get a chance to look and see
whether it's native or invasive. So, I'm hoping that Phil will We're working on it and some of my summer volunteers are going to be out there pulling whatever. He keeps on sending me emails about how bad the soil is from the DPW, but uh
we're happy to have it and uh just but he's just IDing all the invasives. So, okay, make a motion. All right. I make a motion to approve funding for Phil Ben Phil's Phil Perkins in the amount of
Perkins $500 in the amount of $500 from our conservation budget. Yes, I second that motion. To in favor of it. Michelle in favor. Martha Moore in favor. Brian Bow in favor. Second.
Okay. Next one quickly would be voting to accept the land at zero Waverly Road. Did you ever get that? I did. It's been updated like six to get the latest one. Well, do you want to read it? It's been updated since the one I had. No, I think
you have it. Just Just add Mr. and Mrs. You have that one? I can do it if Yeah, the one I got earlier. The last one I have. It's the last one. So, okay. So, uh this motion
uh it's it's I guess um so moved would be someone's motion. So, a motion to accept the gift of land at zero Wavely Road, map 33, lot 38. Um, commission moves
uh I move that the conservation commission gratefully accept the generous gift of land located at zero Wavely Road from Cheryl A. Serret um executive of the estate of Samuel and Gloria Bolino. Uh this donation is made
in memory and honor of Mr. from Miss Lino during uh to an enduring commitment to open space preservation and the natural beauty of our community. The commission extends their sincere appreciation to Mrs.
for uh carrying out this thoughtful and impactful gift which contributes meaningfully to the town's conservation efforts and protects the value valuable nature natural resources uh for generations to come. So moved.
Second. Walter Talbot seconds. Walter Talbert approves. Michelle in favor Marthmore in favor in favor. Okay. Um, I want to tackle 51 Sanborn Lane.
Pre- removal discussion. Uh, did you get down to that gentleman's house? Yes. We spoke to the wife. And what is the result of that? A permit? No permit. What What was the direction you
gave him? I mean, just to speed it up because he's not here. Um, Okay. I we talked to them. They said that you thought the um decorative cherry in the backyard
could be removed. Um and they did not tell us a planting plan for what they wanted to do in place of the trees. Um, I have
the request of the trees they wanted to take down when they came to us. Um, in I don't know what date it was. Um, but at that time they were looking
to take down nine trees and I think they were talking to us now about four or five. Um, one dead, five. Yeah. So, the dead one certainly could go.
Um, and yeah, um, we were concerned about why they wanted to take the oak trees down on the edge of the driveway because they basically were saying they don't like the debris that falls from the oak trees and makes a mess on the driveway.
They didn't look particularly dangerous to me. Um, the cherry tree looks like it's pretty much um in poor shape, but I'd be willing to have them take down the cherry and maybe
plant a native in its place. Um, I took photos. Let me look at my photos. It's been a long week and a long night. So, there's four dead trees and one
living tree. Not four dead trees. One dead tree. One dead tree. One dead tree. Okay. There's a cherry leaning toward the house with three main branches and they have lights tied to the cherry and they said they would move
the lights someplace. Um, so then there's the pine in the back right of the property. Um, there are two oak trees by the driveway. They do overhang the house, but they don't look at all unhealthy.
There are no dead trees. It's all budding. Those look fine from my perspective. The dead oak is also near those other trees by the drive further to the left. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so is this a tree permit or is this a
RDA? I wish it's a tree permit for some of the trees they're interested in. It would be yes for the cherry trees, the pine in the back, right, and the dead oak to the left of the driveway.
So that's two live trees and one dead tree would be as far as I'm concerned easy to approve. And and and so the way the tree permit works is you take down four trees. So
what's the fourth tree? Okay, that the the dead tree doesn't count. So the two trees that we are recommending are the pine tree in the back and the cherry tree. Yep. And are
you saying that they can take any other two trees they want? That's how the policy is written. This is the part of this is like making the sausage that I don't let the commission see. But yes, people have been taking up to four trees
down forever. they want to in that policy because we haven't updated it to have like different restrictions. The only restriction I know of if it's close or within the 25
foot area or close to the resource area then it comes to the commission if I feel like I don't want to. So the two that they're going to want the two oak trees by the driveway. Yeah. big overhang the house in the sea.
Okay. So, it's those two oaks, pine tree in the back right and cherry tree right behind you. But but what was most important is you're just saying it's it's sufficient to use the tree pyramid and then I can just go back to him and yeah, work on taking down those four
live trees and the one dead tree. That sounds like it fits within the tree. Yep. Okay, that's enough. Okay, we did that. Um, conservation DPW meeting postponed. I never heard from them about about
bringing it back. So, uh, I So, I don't know if it's going to be next week or the week after. I did send an email. I did let them know that Martha didn't want to do it on uh on uh voting day. Yeah. Tuesday, which was the vote. And
uh never heard back from Chris or uh Mike H. So if they No, wait a minute. I Mike Tessman. If if they get back to you, then you can send something out. I'm gonna see if we can make it. Yeah. At some point, we be going waiting for the next one. Yeah. Okay. Minister
report for the uh main update. I just want to say that uh please join us this Saturday on the 17th. Rain or shine, we will be working. Uh we have a lot of mulch. As a matter of fact, uh when I was there last Friday, I think it uh uh
one of the the the person with the retaining wall, I saw their kids throwing um like yard waste over the retaining wall and uh had an opportunity to let the whole family understand where the property line was and what should
and shouldn't happen with that. They said they would move it. Hasn't been moved yet. Um but um on that work day, I'm sure it'll get taken care of. I'm don't know if these people will be part of the workday, but maybe we can get rid of it
uh ourselves. I was there today and there's a pile of leaves right at the parking lot and Mike Kesman was there and said that that was some work that you did and that the DPW is going to come take that pile of
leaves away. Yeah, that is the whole idea was the DPW was going to show up uh Monday, last Monday, and pick up all the debris that we had. But I called them up early Monday morning. I said, "We got rained out." And we put the we put the leaves
above the retaining wall, so you don't have to come and pick it up. Hopefully like saving my one thing that they would do for me. Yeah. And so that's why he was just looking at it and that's why they were up there. We didn't ask that. So someone put them up there. We had
them tucked away in a corner uh of the parking area, but someone felt it wasn't enough and they put them up on top of the rain wall. So it was great. It was Okay. So was this work that was done on Saturday even though you were rained out or was it later in the week? So I was there on Saturday. We weren't rained out
after two and work happened with with kind of the people that always show up, you know, and never want to say die. So, uh, I was there and some of the trails committee members were there and people showed up intermittently. Uh, but the and and
there's a very active and, uh, steward of that land, uh, that lives right on the corner and he did a lot of that work, too. So, okay. Thank you to all the people who showed up on the rainy day. Okay, moving on. Let's get some minutes approved. Again, show up on
Saturday 17th between 10 and 3. The minutes approved. Yeah. Are we going to talk about Forest Street at all? 114. No, no, he withdrew. He didn't need that. He just needed to have me sign off on the occupancy permit. Oh, okay.
Right. Which uh he So, they always mix that up. Occupancy with certificate of compliance. But when we got into it, when Brian sent me the list, I was able to talk to him a little bit more and he's like, "Oh, I I really need occupancy." I'm like, "Oh, you
said, you know, right?" Okay. I I just I know we're in a hurry, but just they didn't plant as many trees as they said they were going to, and so he was going to send us a check. So, you're saying there was two trees that he didn't plant. Um, well, it depends on which
plan you go by. One plan has a whole bunch of trees across the back, so it may be more than two that he's missing. So like one inch, not even one inch in diameter. Oh, yeah. The saplings. The ones he planted to me. Yeah. Yeah.
The red maples, the and the dog and the dog woods. Yeah. They're not two to two and a half. And they've also been chewed at the bottom, of course. There's no cage around them. You can see where it's been chewed. So they won't have the threeear survivability. But this plant
has 18 trees. Um, and the other plan has eight trees and I don't remember which one was the one that was the final plan, but I mailed you about this one and then I found this one. So, you need to look at your final plan and figure out how
many trees they were really supposed to plant before we give them certificate of approval. Yeah, I haven't signed off. This was revised. That's not the question, right? So, we can we can address that later. Right. the the final plan was the
18 trees and they've planted six. Okay. So, so that's a big deal. So, um I don't know if you're going to get So, my recommendation would be let's get an understanding from this developer before I'm signing off on the occupancy.
Okay. And the other thing that you should have let me know right away is that the trees that went in were like one inch caliber instead of and they were saplings and you don't agree and they should have been 3-in caliper and blah blah blah. I didn't note that they
were dear chewed or whatever. The excuse was there was nothing available at the nursery. But can you talk to them? That's what the letter said. Okay. Um I I correct my statement. It's
um six red oer dogwood, six arrowwood viburnum, and then nine tree and then six trees. Um and they only put in six trees and none of the shrubs.
And yeah, and they put in Yeah. three each of red maple and flower and dogwood which that meets the the requirement but they're missing all the shrubs. And are those sufficient size? No. No. As they said, these were pretty pretty skinny
and they were four feet tall, if that. But if they don't survive, it's a moot point whether they were big enough or not big enough. And I would say I think he was going to wait his three years on on all of those, but there's
Yeah, there's a few trees that are different. I think 12. Yeah. And then the shrubs, the red oer dogwood and the viburnum are shrubs. So he's missing the shrubs. He only put in the trees.
Okay. So it doesn't look good. And and they had some non-natives, but again, those are decorative shrubs around the foundation. So, and there was a chunk of the sod that didn't look like it took on the That's pretty new. Yeah, because
that wasn't in the pictures that that So, if he he had to buy his way out of that, it would be three grand for those for those trees. Oh, per tree. Yeah. Okay. Is that what you're thinking? or or because we're not in the tree policy.
You can say whatever you want, but it would be three grand for those trees into the conservation fund. Well, I want them to plant the trees there. They they dug up our vernal pool habitat and we made we made an agreement they
would plant the shrubs and the trees. So, in looking at the distance those red maples, distance apart they are, I don't know, we'd want to put another one or two, three out there. No, I don't want more red maples. I want the shrubs. The
shrubs intermingled with the trees. Um, yeah, I those trees aren't going to last, right? So, then they But that's a TC. What are they? Red oer dogwood. Red oer, dogwood, and viburnum. Was it arrowwood? I just said
yes. Yeah, that was what was on the May 1st, 2024 plan. I always prefer trees over shrubs. I'd be fine with them paying the money as long to get trees to survive.
But I want the trees in that yard, not in the conservation property. Yeah. The red maple on the back wall. Yeah. And the dog woods along the side of the driveway, right? As per the approved plan. But but
the approved plan was six trees plus six shrubs plus six more shrubs. It's 18 plants. So I don't want to let them have six trees and not have the eight and not have the 12 shrubs.
Okay, we can decide. What I said is I would be fine making the contribution to the conservation fund and making sure we have six trees that survive. I'm not so worried about the shrubs. I'm I'm trees.
I'm trees all the time. Okay. And I disagree. Okay. Three minutes. I wasn't there. I know nothing about it. Okay. Oh, and did you figure out if they had enough um the 15 foot wildlife carter? Well, that my
misinterpretation would be that I thought the wildlife carter was going to be such that those little froggies and snails or whatever turtles could work their way up the slope and it's all rugged rough. You
know, maybe they're you maybe they're they do that. I don't know. There's a strip of grass that goes along the side of the house. It's not growing well after Yeah.
They probably walk on the grass. I would They usually do what people do. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not kidding. I I I agree. Yeah. I like, well, I'm a I'm a black bear. I'll just just run through these bushes. Well, the plot shows grass next
to the house, then a 15 foot corridor, then a 10 foot. Well, they had that recorded, so I think the the width is correct and all that is correct. I don't think it was supposed to be touched. It is what it is. It shouldn't have been disturbed during uh the building. So, it
it it kind of is what it is. Yeah. And there is there is undisturbed part next to it. What he's talking about is right next to the house they planted sod which is not doing well. So it's not the full thing is not natural. Yeah. Less of it is
natural but there still a natural grower with a grass annex if you will. Yeah. That's fine. I have no problem with that. I expected to have something like eight feet of grass next to the house, then 25 feet of open
space before you got to the next property. It's definitely not open space. Well, it's rocky and treey and stuff, right? That's open space. Yeah, it's natural. As long in there, it looks like the contractor moved them over and that's a problem. That looks creepy. As
long as the turtle bust to get him up and down. Okay. So, uh we do not have time to time. So, um I'm open for taking a motion to adjourn. So, moved at
10:59 was not done ringing. So, at 10:59, all in favor? Amen. Okay. Wow. Thanks for sticking with it. All righty. Teddy bear. This is me. Am I
Is our sound off? He's getting creepy. Well, you know what I can do? Sound still on. When I was at Mlette Songs today, I saw a beaver.