All right, here we go. Hello everyone. This is Chuck Terrone, reading conservation administrator. This meeting will be conducted um in person and remote format consistent with chapter 2 of the act 2023
which further extends certain provisions of co 19 measures regarding remote participation in public meetings until June 30th 2027. Please note, not all items listed may in fact be discussed and other items not listed may be brought up for discussion to the extent
permitted by law. This agenda includes those matters which can reasonably be anticipated to be discussed at tonight's meeting. Please note that this meeting is being recorded. All materials for this meeting are available at the conservation division
page under projects fiveyear and Brian B the commission chair will facilitate this meeting. Please note there is a public comment period at the end of each hearing. Each vote taken during this meeting should be conducted by roll
call. Begin with a roll call attendance. Uh Brian, can you please review tonight's agenda and take this roll call? Sure. Call of order is 7:05. First I'll do the attendance. We'll go
in this order. Walter >> Walter Talbet member present >> member present. >> Jack member present. >> Martha Moore vice chair present. >> Ryan chair present. Joe 30 associate member present.
>> Now review the agenda. Uh first we have >> uh Tim trying to get online. Something's wrong. >> That's right. Um, first we have a continuation of public hearing for 281
Main Street that will be continued. Uh, so we'll do a motion to that time. Next is Zero Track Road. This is opening a public hearing on a notice of intent. Next is 87 Walker Brook Drive, which is
opening a public hearing on an amended order of conditions. And then that's it for our hearings tonight. And then we have a number of discussion items and an old new business including minutes for approval. >> There he is. He just came on actually.
>> Tim, can you uh >> he's not he hasn't joined yet, >> so he might be having trouble. I'm not sure. I just saw him flip on. Okay. >> Just give him a minute to say he's here, but let me go forward.
>> All right. So, he's uh can ask if you can hear us. >> Tim, can you hear us? >> I can hear you. >> Okay. Um you are going to vote after Shurog.
>> Okay. Can you uh state your name and be present? >> Tim Michelle, member present. >> Thank you. Okay, so we're ready for the first one. 281 Main Street. As I said, this is going to be continued to May 13th. Can I have
>> I was going to give a little update. >> Fair enough. >> Yeah. So, just quickly, so we left the last meeting they and agreed that we're going to have third party review for 281 Main Street. And so we wanted to do it expeditiously and so we went with uh LEC
and Wesley Whitten for the storm water and um when those quotes came in which was uh 8500 and about 4,000 for the storm water um the applicant looked at that and they thought that they could get a better
price if we went all inhouse. So, we reached out to Epsilon for both storm water and um environmental and uh they were unavailable at this time to do any third party review. And
so when I returned to work on Monday, uh we decided to go to BSC and I've reached out to BSC and um we were in contact with their group that does third party review and they said they would provide a quote. So, we should have
that. But with that, the applicant said there wouldn't be anything to talk about tonight. And so, we've uh we've a request to continue to May 13th. >> Okay. Uh so, on May 13th, then we would have
the conversation about whether they accept whatever quote it is we get from BSC. So my understanding which is my understanding is we need to try the three blotes. This that's three. We all we'll have
three but we'll have you know even a swing and a miss works. So when they don't when they're busy that's that's trying. >> Okay. >> So we're gonna have two to choose from and um we'll see where they're at. And I think they're both great companies
no matter which one the applicant agrees with. >> What's that? >> Yes. >> I move that we continue the hearing on 281 Main Street to May 13th.
>> Walter Talbert seconds. Walter Talbert in favor. >> Rick Q in favor. >> Jree in favor. >> Tim Michelle in favor. >> Martha Moore in favor. Ryan Bow in favor. Okay. Next is Zero Track Road.
You want to let anybody in while I read the blur if there is anybody? >> Yeah. Um, yep. I will be letting people in. Um, open public hearing on notice of intent followed by the town of Reading Engineering Department pursuant to Massachusetts General Law, Chapter 131,
Section 40, the Wetlands Protection Act, andor the Reading Wetland Protection bylaw, section 7.1, for replacing the existing bridge, bridge number R03-006, parenthesis BW7,
over Walkerbrook on Track Road. Replacement of the existing bridge will include replacing the existing structure with a new pre-cast concrete four-sided box culvert within riverfront area. The application and plans can be
viewed on the conservation division page on the current project. Assesses map 23, lot 023 0-0000 0010-0 near uh 13 track road, DP file number
270710. >> So it's Heidi Fiser. >> Okay. Heidi, do you want to walk us through the project? >> Yes. Uh, thank you very much. Uh, may I have permission to share my screen for the presentation? >> Sure. And Heidi, is anyone else here? I
know that Maggie Anderson from representing the town's engineering department's here, but is anyone else from um here? >> Uh, I believe that would be uh just limited to uh just us. I know it's a kind of a tough week with school vacation. So, a couple folks weren't
available. So, we'll do our best. >> Okay. >> Hey, go ahead. Can you introduce yourself, please? Uh certainly. So my name is Heidi Fischer. Um I will be res uh representing the town of Reading Engineering Department um for uh this
project from AECOM. >> Okay, I'm going to go and get my iPad. >> Okay. >> Are you sharing? >> Yeah, let's make sure. >> Yes, I'll go ahead and share now. Thank you. >> Okay. I didn't know if you had started trying Okay, something's coming up
and now we can see it. Go ahead. >> Okay, perfect. Um, yes, so good evening. Um, as stated before, this is for the track road to east bridge replacement project. Um this is over um Walkersbrook uh which is located near Zero Track Road
um located uh in residential area. Go ahead and u share the location uh roughly so you can get an idea of where it's going to be located. Um this is the the northern side of Track Road along which uh Walkers Brook um kind of crosses through this neighborhood. Uh
previous to uh this proposed work um the engineering department had also proposed to um also conduct a replacement of the the bridge crossing over um on the southern portion of track road. Um and that work was conducted in in 2020. So
originally this was um one project for both crossings and then um I think due to some funding they initially they decided to uh separate out these two projects. So now um they're ready to go ahead and and do uh this crossing for what they're calling track road east.
So just a little bit of um a background on this on this project. I stated before uh they had to separate out separate out the two different crossings. Um and track road one um west was was completed in 2020 and and was able to be awarded an order of conditions. Um the existing
structure over um this portion of Walkersbrook was constructed in 1943 and um due to the current state of the bridge uh the crossing actually been closed for several years um just due to the the unsafe conditions.
Um and then just some background for um for ourselves. uh ACOM performed wetland delineations uh a couple years ago uh to delineate the mean annual high water and um it was determined at that time that it was also synonymous with delineated bank to walkers brook.
So the um existing structure that is uh located here is a single lane crossing um approximately 10 ft across. Uh water depths below the the bridge are approximately 2 to 3 feet. Um, and then as stated before, uh, the bridge has been closed for some years now, and we
wanted to just include a couple of photos for reference just to get a sense of, uh, uh, what the current conditions are and what it's looking like. Also gives you a sense of, uh, the the bank and the nearby vegetation. Um, and then also to get a pretty good look at what the water depths, too, are at this
location. And this is just the roadway approach. So, as you can see, um it's it's been closed down for some time now and um definitely has been overgrown um quite a bit. So, the proposed uh project as stated before was that the uh existing
structure is going to be removed in its entirety and is going to be replaced with um a new uh pre-cast four-sided box covert. Um so the the existing structure is going to be uh removed in its entirety including the wing walls. Um and so uh
the the proposed replacement will include that installation of the culvert and and the new construction of the new wing walls as well as um a renovation of the existing um roadway crossing over Walker's Brook. Um as stated previously, the uh the crossing is um at the moment
only uh a single lane um and doesn't really have very good load bearings. So the the plan would be to actually uh widen the current crossing to allow for two-way traffic and also to allow for uh two-foot shoulders on either side. Uh
the approach to the bridge will uh also be renovated in order to meet that crossing and will include um that widening work as well as uh mill and overlay. Um and then the the alignment and profile would be to matching existing conditions. Um and then as as
seen in those photos with uh the vegetation being what it is, uh there would be some um some work to kind of clear that area, but the the at the moment the only number of proposed uh replacement of trees is is um limited to two at the moment. Um and those would be
of similar um size and uh in kind um and to be approved by the commission um as was done previous in 2020 for Track Road West. So the resource areas in which uh this work will take place uh include inland bank to Walkersbrook uh land underwater
bodies and waterways bordering land subject to flooding the riverfront area and the um as well as the flood plane as well as uh we accounted for the uh town of Reading um regulations for the zone of natural vegetation which we've
included in our planet which I have on the next page. Um we've proposed as part of uh this work we've proposed um compensatory flood storage on an incremental basis um which will I believe it's on might be on the next uh
sheet when I discuss more of the uh flood storage but um will uh based on what we're proposing to do it will actually result in a net gain in flood storage in this area. Um and then for the uh for during the the time of the
proposed construction, the number of mitigation measures which will be in place will include coffer dams to be installed um in um around the the proposed work area in order to perform the work in the dry um turbidity curtains downstream of the work area. Um
as well as sedimentation barriers um to be inject inspected daily. Um and then including a water pi bypass system as well will be in place in order to um ensure the um the flow the continued flow of Walker's Brook um in order to
divert it away during construction. Um, and then we have a a very busy plan set here, but we wanted to include just uh a copy of what we had submitted with the prop with the uh excuse me, the permit to um give an idea of how all this work um coincides with um coincides
with the resource areas. And as you can see, the the red hatched area include the work that's going to be in the roadway. Um and then we've included all of the uh delineated lines for bank um as well as that uh zone of natural vegetation. Uh I believe that the riverfront area being that's 200 f feet
actually extends past this sheet. So um we've accounted for all of the the work that's being uh conducted within uh within that area is is shown on this sheet here and I'm happy to to linger on this sheet for us um you know and or
certainly go back to it. Um but definitely wanted to also just portray the uh compensatory flood storage which is on this next sheet. Um so you could see it's on the uh lower left hand side of the page where we would be proposing this this to be. Um and I believe though
we also show some of the proposed areas in which um tree replacement would also be taking place. But with that, I come to the end of my uh prepared presentation, so I'm happy to answer any questions you may have. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you.
Have any questions from the commission or comments from the commission? Rick Heidi, I have one question. Um if there are any, but are there any difference between the scope of this project now
and the project in 2020? I believe that the um what's been proposed here is similar to what was proposed in 2020. I know that um the design is very similar and then that um also the replantings are going to be
similar to what was chosen at that time as well. >> Are there two lanes on that first bridge? >> I'm actually not I'm not sure about um Track Road West. I'm not familiar with that project. But that's something I can also um I'm
happy to also pull up. >> Yeah, I don't believe there's not two lanes on that on that first bridge. It's it's wider, but it's not enough for two cars to pass each other. >> And the current state of this bridge allows one car or two cars to pass.
>> Probably one. >> Just one. >> Okay. Does that require any fill? Uh there will be some um the fill required will be um I believe there's going to be rock fill on either side of the bank um as well as um there will be
some grading work around the wing walls. >> Thank you. Anybody else? Um I am wondering this seems like a lot of work.
Um is it absolutely necessary to replace this bridge because there are other ways to cross this stream and also have the uh neighbors bought into this project?
>> Um I can't really speak to public outreach um on this project. that wasn't something that I've personally be involved with. Um I do know that being that uh this is a town project, I I believe that there has been some and some time has gone by between um the initial first project and the second um
there has been some leadup into the the funding being acquired for this project. So um I I can only speak to what I understand of the project, but um it is my understanding that this is something that is um that has been in favor for this for this area. Um, I know that the
the fact that the bridge has been uh closed down for some time, I I believe that some residents have voiced um and again I can't speak to everybody, but I know that some residents have have voiced some um some unhappiness with it being closed that it was it was previously a crossing and now it's been closed for for many
years now. Um even just for foroot traffic. >> Um and why does it need to be widened to two lanes? It's >> uh I >> hardly any houses on either side of it.
>> Yes. Uh I again only speaking to what I'm um aware of with this project. Um I believe that there was also in favor of being able to load um to have more um to incorporate more traffic at this location. Um especially if the southern
location is only able to accommodate one vehicle. I believe that this location it was it was deemed that one vehicle was was not enough. Okay. Um, when you talk about the additional flood storage, basically you're widening the stream bed.
The, um, to my knowledge, the stream bed is not being widened. >> So, the gray area on your diagram, >> but at the bottom left represents flood storage. >> That's correct. Um and it would be it
would be incremental with um the area that would be removed um based on the proposed work. >> Okay. So explain flood storage. If you're not widening the stream, how is it storing more flood water? >> Um I apologize. I would have to actually
get back to you on on that explanation. I don't have those details for you. >> Okay. Thanks. Uh, I guess so. Yeah, >> that's it. Um, I have a question. Can you explain a
little more fully the choice of the three-sided open bottom box cover versus either span or the four-sided covert? I mean, why is that a better choice? Uh it was um explained to me that the the purpose would be for the least
amount of impacts as well as the uh duration of the construction that um that design was chosen in order to uh minimize the time of construction while having the least amount of imp impacts to the waterway. >> Okay.
Um in your letter you talk about impacts to the right of way. What are the impacts that you're concerned about? Um I I I would ask which letter that's referring to. We're not uh we're not ant
the project manager has informed me that we're not anticipating any impacts to the right of way. >> I Okay, I'm looking at the letter from AECOM which was in response to the D comments and actually you signed it.
I tell you what, we're not going to close tonight anyway. Why don't you look at that and um when we come back next time, you can have an understanding of that. >> Understood. >> Um again, in that same letter, you talk
about a restricted site. Um what does that mean in this context? >> Uh restricted site um in in regards to the uh the footprint of the of the work. Is that what you're asking?
>> Um let me actually find the text. It's part of the last paragraph. It's part of the explanation for why the choice of a foursided covert. And it
said um you chose that for a number of reasons. One of which because of because of the restricted site and I'm don't restricted in what sense the width the length of the thing you're going to be
the spanning be putting in. I just don't know what that means in this sense. uh restricted in the sense that um uh looking at the um at the environment in which the crossing is um there is um
there isn't any proposed um work to increase the um disturbed footprint on either side of the bridge. Uh so working within the current disturbed area that the bridge occupies um we would want to keep it as
incind as possible and not have to extend any further on either side. >> But if you're widening the roadway, you are by definition impacting more bank, right? I believe that it is going to be a
widening but it is going to be um the design is going to be the least impactful to those resource areas. >> Okay. So you're saying it will be more but it's the least it can be in do lane. >> Yes. >> All right. Um
so I understand that it's not passable. Is there any um clogging or anything under the current bridge? Uh what I'm getting at when you do this work, are you going to open it up and therefore
allow more flow downstream? I do not believe that it's going to have any um any change on the carrying capacity of uh the stream, but that is something that um I would certainly want to confirm before I say definitively. But
it to my understanding there is um I know that during the duration of the work we we will be ensuring that um that the the the flow is diverted but in in terms of increasing the carrying capacity of the
waterway uh that is not my understanding. >> Okay. I I asked that because one of the considerations in the regulations is uh what's the chance of downstream flooding? Uh and so I'm wondering if you
if you got to open it up. Is there a chance for such flooding? So, okay. Um that's it for my questions. Chuck, do you have anything you want to bring up? Uh yeah, Heidi, I wanted to know if uh so you got the comments from DEP and I
wanted you to uh talk about why you chose to use um uh the replacement um what they're saying is uh stream crossing replacement should file as a limited project under this criteria and
so there you filed under 1053 um F which is for a road and the other one is a um stream crossing and >> uh and I was wondering why that was
chosen. I know you provided uh information, but if you could just go over it for the record, that would be very helpful. Um and I did read that and I'm still wondering why um at the end of the day you didn't make that decision.
>> Right. So um again speaking to my understanding I believe that because we are not meeting uh the majority of the stream crossing um standards for this project um that is why they wanted to go under the 10533F for improvement of an existing public
roadway. >> But don't you only have to meet them to the extent practicable? And if there if you're limited uh to meeting them that's acceptable. I thought that was the the criteria.
it and uh it also helps the commission. Um um it it just serves up the project in such a way that um more check marks are taken care of for the environmental um u I'm going to say environmental
check marks but just to make sure that um we're having the least impact if you file in my opinion if you file under 10 538. So, I I was wondering, but if if you're not if you're not prepared to
answer that, I again we are going to we can talk about it um at the next meeting. >> Yeah, I I would like to um if you don't mind, I would like to take that back because um you know, it is my understanding that we're we as you said
before, we are meeting them to the extent practicable. Um but it was advised to file under the um the 10553. Um so you know we did prepare that response to D. Um but you know if you
also see see issue with it and you think that um filing under um under placement of a stream if you believe that the meeting the stream crossing standards is is more in this case uh advisable I I would certainly want to bring that back to our project manager and and have that
discussion with them. Sure. Yeah. I'm not um I'd like us both to look at it and uh be prepared to have a little bit better discussion uh at the next meeting. I don't think it impacts the project. I just think that it was the advice from D. I looked at it and uh
thought that it would work. Um going to move on to another question about what Brian had brought up. You know, the four-sided box culvert. Um, you know, um, I I wanted more of an
explanation of why we're going with that because my understanding, my simplistic understanding is that if you have a full-sided box culvert, you would have to dig into the stream bank. Uh, I guess even if you were doing abutments, you
would have to dig into the stream bank, but at least you would be in the bank. you're going to be underwater, so more impacts if you have a four-sided box culvert. Um, I believe at the last one we did do the same thing. And
the comment was they weren't available at that time. I think when that project came up, there was a lot of um stream damage uh in northern communities and it was very difficult to get um these box
culverts and we were um you know compelled to go with a four-sided box culvert but um I guess what we get with the three-sided one is less impact, no impact to land underwater. Um, possibly you could let the stream flow as you're
doing the work. Um, I'm not sure about that, but I but it seems like you could. And um, you're going to leave the um, you're going to leave that um, stream base intact.
I get it. It's not ideal, but it's less disturbance. So, that was uh, my question on why that is. And so yeah, if you could just answer what that
why that happens and and it can also um you know, you can also take this and uh and come back with that answer too, which is which is fine. Or we can discuss the you know, what's going on at the project uh when we're out there. >> Certainly. um as as kind of we responded
to D with this um and you know I'm happy to speak to it as much as I can but I think it was a number of factors that were um put into consideration for this design um not the least of which being that also funding I believe was also a piece of it. Um but you know these are
things I would like for the town to speak to specifically but I think it was overall um site considerations um the the limit of work in which we were trying to stay within being that the the site is considered somewhat restricted. Um and then the fact that
there's also the the overhead lines too I think was also part of the consideration. So it was kind of I think from a from a holistic point of view to determine that this was the design that was chosen. Um but but certainly, you know, I'd love to get someone from the engineering department to to speak
further to that if if they can at a later time. >> Sure. Can I just follow up and just ask why overhead lines has um any bearing on whether it's three-sided or foursided? >> There is going to have to as proposed as
far as this project, there is going to have to be um um one of the lines is going to have to be relocated. Um so I believe that that was a factor. Uh yeah, I still don't understand, but um you know, like I know that we don't have Ryan here tonight and he did speak
to me and and said there would be some information that only he knew. So I know you're in an awkward position with some of this stuff, but uh I know Brian's on vacation this week, so I appreciate um the answers that you are helping us
with. To be clear, Ryan's on vacation. Brian is right here. >> But go ahead. >> Okay. Um, sure. I just have uh just maybe a couple more and then so uh on that first project, I was here for it and uh there was a couple of things that
I want to make sure doesn't uh doesn't happen. And um so we had a lot of um you know you can we had a lot of turbidity in the stream and I believe what was used was a silt fence to kind of maintain that area. I want to make sure
that the the town or the contractor has instructions on how to install that and if it's not installed a procedure that the conservation it's not installed correctly. So we would come in in the
morning and it would be like tied on one side only and straight down the stream and so it lost everything that it was holding and it you know I'm not telling you that I believe in any manner that a silt fence is what should have been used
but um that's what was used at that time. And so I want to make sure that that is looked into and we have people that know what they're doing and the right equipment out there and um
if there is a problem a procedure in place to call in AECOM to get us some expert advice on how to correct the situation. So I know that would be one of the things I asked for. Secondly, uh when we're replanting trees, the
conservation commission likes, you know, tree replacement. I think we did that uh with the first one. And um unfortunately, the town isn't um uh under the same they don't really So,
they'll plant the trees, but that care and take doesn't happen as if it was a homeowner. So, we have no recourse if the trees um you know die off. Um, I mean, they'll do their best. I don't want to say that they won't do their best and and they certainly have in the
past, but I was talking to Ryan and he said maybe there's some other mitigation that may work uh better uh that than than planting, which is hard to be hard to maintain by the town. So, I was wondering if you could look into
different mitigation that could be used in this area rather than replanting um because it's it's a little problematic. Uh my last question is about storage. Uh I thought that the town owned a piece of
of parcel next to the stream right on this road. Is that where you're going to store things or is it going to be in the street? And um are you going to block off some of the street uh for that storage?
>> Uh so this is for uh stockpiling of of uh materials for the construction. >> Yeah. So at the last we had a um a siltation device. It looked like a dumpster with uh it was separated. I I can't think of the name of it, but it
that was in this town owned property where the turbidity was pumped out. It was put into this um whatever this is and uh and then pumped back into the stream. But what it did is it settled
the sediment that was in the water into three compartments and when it finally left that, it went back into the stream. that was needed because it was such a problem and it was put on the town property. So, I'm assuming something like that, like a frack tank. I don't
think that's what it was, but something like that would be possibly needed and a spot for it would be needed. >> Yes, agreed. Um I know that um there is some minor discussion of dewatering in
the NOI but I believe that um we said that it would be determined um by the contractor but um certainly we could um you know pro provide what we would um anticipate would be proposed by them or examples for other projects of what might have been done um and where that
that would go. Um, I do believe that we anticipate that it wouldn't go back into the stream. Um, but you know, without without knowing specifically what the contractor would choose, um, I'm I'm not sure what would be anticipated, but I believe that that is not um that would
not be ideal. >> So, we yeah, we've run into this before. I mean, the commission's had a lot of commercial type projects. So, this commission understands that there's like there's a call out. But I mean you work with the town so you know we're sort of on the same side but what
ends up happening is they say hey means and methods we can't get into that blah blah blah. So the commission has learned to just put it into their um conditions what they want and then it's part of it's part of the contract. So we would like to have as much information like you said you're going to make your best
guess and so we will if we agree with that best guess like I said frack tank some other methods out there Ryan would be very helpful uh also and we would just put some conditions on something like that so that would be appreciated if you did take a guess on what they may
use in situations >> certainly yes we can provide that thank you >> thank you that's all you had something so uh are strictly evaluating this just on the bridge replacement or even like the roads and
the streets leading to it because I see one of the streets at least one of the sides it's not really a road to get two cars in and out of there. So that's going to be another project or is it part of the same project?
>> This uh so what's in front of us is just the bridge replacement. There's no discussion about the road unless there is um some utility work under the road that crosses underneath the bridge which they have to move or
>> reroute and that's a good question to ask >> if there is and how much of the road has to be ripped up to do this work but I they're not going to >> there's not no part of this that talks about widening the road >> okay because yeah at least if I look at
Google maps doesn't seem to be like a road on one Y that's it. >> Okay. So, um there's a number of reasons for us to continue. The first one is we haven't done a site visit yet. So, we
need to schedule a site visit. Um >> you want to go to the community and ask if anyone's here wants to know. >> Okay, good point. Um is there anybody in the room who has any questions or comments about this hearing?
and you can go to the reaction button and and click on the raise hand function and we'll see you on the screen and I'll let you uh >> you're out there in zoom land. >> Yeah. Or anyone here we do have we do have a few people here so um
give it a few minutes. I don't know if you understood, Chuck, but if you're out there and you want to say something, look for the reactions option at the bottom of your screen. Choose the raise hand function and Chuck
will see little icon come up. >> Do you think? >> No. Seeing none. >> Okay, then u let's schedule. >> Anyone here? I don't know. >> Okay. >> Um then um let's schedule uh a site
visit. Um >> I don't know if a special one needs to be since they're coming back to our next meeting. It could be as always the Monday prior to the meeting. Our meeting is on the 13th. >> When's Ryan back? >> He's back next week. So April vacation
is this this week. So he'll be back next week and we could go >> the 11th would be the Monday before the meeting. >> Yeah. >> So we could >> we could just have it as part of that. >> Yeah. Okay. >> You want to set a time now? I want to have the first one at 8:30, >> right?
>> Okay. >> So 8:30 on May 11th will be our site visit. Chuck obviously invite Brian. >> Yeah. I Brian said that as long as he's back he can make any meeting and if he does have to change it we'll we will
accommodate that. >> Um then do we want to continue just to 13th? Is that sufficient? >> It's sufficient for Ryan. Is that uh did that work for you Heidi?
>> Yes. >> On May 13th. Okay. Thank you. Um, and I have a motion to continue zero track roads to May 13th. >> So moved. >> Walter Talbert seconds. Walter Thomas in favor. >> Pio in favor.
>> Green in favor. >> Michelle in favor. >> Martha Moore in favor. >> Ryan in favor. Thank you, Heidi. >> Thank you very much. Appreciate it. >> See you next time. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Next.
87 Walker Brook Drive as opening a hearing on an amended order of conditions. um 270-0777 followed by OB Enterprises LLC Massachusetts General Law Chapter 131
section 4 me the weather weapon protection act on the red and weapon protection bylaw section 7.1 the installation of two new double wall fiberglass underground fuel storage tanks in addition to completing all
depending approved site improvements as part of the original order business. The application application and plans can be viewed on the conservation division phase under current projects map 12 lot 42 the EP file number
270-0777. >> Can you introduce yourself please? >> Good evening. My name is Sarah Shaftman. I'm an engineer with Greeman Peterson Inc. And I'm here tonight on behalf of the applicant, Colia Enterprises, for their application to amend their
order of conditions at 87 Walkers Brook Drive. Um, so I'll go ahead and I can share some plans. That's okay. All right. So, so we'll go full screen.
Um this is the existing Shell gas station in Walker's Brook Drive. Um this was before this commission back in 2024 where this project was um issued a notice of intent and
order of conditions or their improvements to the existing concrete tank mat which is try to zoom in a little bit. will let me. Anyway, they're replacing the new concrete tank mat and all four
of the fuel islands and that and then there are some storm water improvements and some plantings that were recommended at that time. Um, that's the current approved plan. Our client has also proposed to do all of that previously
approved work plus the addition of um replacing the existing fuel storage tanks that are from 1990 to new state-of-the-art double wall fuel storage tanks with a new state-of-the-art alert system and sort
of all the bells and whistles there. The current tanks are, like I said, they're from 1990, so they're 36 years old at this point. Typically, the lifespan of underground storage tanks are between 30 and 40 years. So, replacing them now,
um, while there are no issues, will be overall better for the resource area and the environment. Um, so that is the only change between last time you saw this project and now just the addition of those those new tanks.
So I'm happy to answer any questions the commission may have. >> Thank you. Questions, comments? >> Um, I'm just curious. They had an approval from us in 2024 and have not yet started the work. Do you know what
has delayed the work this long? >> Yes, that approval was for a different um not for our client. It was for a different developer at that time. So, Pia has since purchased the property and they'll be taking over um the property
and doing those improvements. So I believe there was just some sort of transaction between these two years. >> Um because when the original proposal came before
us um that storm water work down in the lower right corner >> um we were very concerned about water contaminating the water supply to the side. So, um I I would be very happy to
get that work done and the >> um the opening that allows storm water to go into the water supply um to be closed up quickly. >> Yes, definitely. So, yes, our client is um hoping to get this order of
conditions amended so then they can start finding these improvements. question. Chuck, >> this is just procedures, but new owner of this property, does the existing approved project and conditions carry over? >> Yes, >> it does.
>> Thank you. >> Yeah, that's why a lot of contractors are developers try to get the order of conditions and then they sell the vacant land with an order to build the house. So, it's >> Thank you. >> valuable step.
Has there been any testing of the soil around the existing tank? >> There has been. Um, there are a few monitoring wells on the property right now just due to past remediation efforts
in the 2000s to 2010s. Um, they has there has been extensive testing as a result of those remediation efforts. Um all of those efforts are now closed by D with no further testing
requirements or concerns. So um there aren't any contamination concerns on the property and of course as required by D there will be a licensed site evaluate a licensed site professional on site to evaluate any soils
when you're removing the tanks. How is the soil going to be evaluated or where is it going to be taken to? >> It depends on I guess the second question depends on what is found. Um but as required by DP the licensed site
professional or LSP will be on site for the tank removal. Um and there are requirements from D on what sort of soil testing um will be required at that time. So, our client has retained an LSP for this work and is prepared to do all
of the required testing. If any contamination is found, then that LSP would know the protocols of where where and how to dispose of that. >> Have there been any test wells at a perimeter
further off the property or just on the property? It's my understanding that there are just test wells within the property bounds as directed by D for the original remediation efforts. Um again those
efforts are all closed. So the state has no requirement um as of right now to be testing the surrounding area. Um and D has closed these these concerns. >> Yes.
Anybody else questions comments? Do you have anything? >> Sure. Um uh so yeah, we did have a order of conditions that was uh reviewed and kind of presented by another engineering firm. Has your firm looked at that and
do they agree with that those um plans and they feel like what was proposed with this other firm you agree with and will work? >> Yes, we have. So um we've reviewed the order of conditions and all of their plans.
Pretty much our plans look extremely similar just in our format of what was originally proposed. Um so literally the only difference is just the new the new tanks and piping but we've reviewed that um the client applicant they're aware of
those existing order conditions >> and are you aware that in the order of conditions not this amendment but the original which is still in effect the conservation commission required the first thing that's done before any other
work can happen is that this storm water situation will be taken care And are you prepared to do that for that um that detention basin with the two uh outfalls? I guess has inlet as an outfall and then it's underneath the
driveway and it discharges and then to close that gap in the curbing prior to doing any of this work or is that going to be problematic with the amount of cement and concrete that has to be pulled up and you want to ask us about
that now? No, the there's been no concerns that I'm aware of from the client in terms of that process. Um, and of course, they're very much aware of that request and we have sort of recreated the previous traffic control
plans for doing those storm water improvements. Um, so the client is on board um with conducting those improvements and traffic control. >> Okay. Um, so you said that D has closed
out this site and uh they issued a letter. When you do this work, are you going to remove the wells? >> I believe that um just due to the location of the new tanks
that it will impact a couple of the wells. the applicant has made it clear that the wells will be um they're no longer required, but the past owner has retained them just should they need to do any additional testing, they're
already installed. Um the owner will retain them until construction at that point just due to removing the tank mat and also the placement of the underground tanks. believe that
at least two of them will not be able to remain. As for the other couple, I'm not sure what the plan is there, but >> unless they're pulling up, you know, the tarmac or whatever, seems like unless just work in that area, they'll just stay because you're not going to pave
the whole site. You're only going to patch where you where you're working. >> Correct. >> Okay. Um, and then Walter was asking about tanks and he was concerned about testing and you know, you never know. You put down a couple test pits, but problems
could be elsewhere. Um, but in your opinion and uh GPI's opinion, they're they're right now there's nothing to be concerned about. The tanks are solid. They're they're holding up. >> Correct. >> Um, what is the process um for removing
a tank? Um, we did one and this is much bigger situation, but what they did is they emptied it as much as possible and then they put this material in it called flow fill. >> I'm not sure if that's the process. Can you tell us a little bit about how the tank and the liquid inside of it can be
safely removed? >> So, I'm not personally too familiar, so I don't want to oversp speak. Um, but it's my understanding that the LSP on site will oversee all of the
functions of the tank being removed properly. Um, it's their responsibility for controlling any hazardous waste and assessing for any hazardous waste. So the tank removal will be in accordance with D standards and anything that's
observed that's a concern would be um addressed with the plan. But I believe that what's standard is that they do empty them and fill them um and then remove them, test the soil and then they issue a sort of removal closure document
that gets submitted to D. So in the in the the LSP, the licensed site professional, they are um a a special employee. They represent the
DP. So it's they're very serious. They usually don't let anything slip, but they're out there representing D, not specifically this this applicant. They want to make sure there's no issues. So having an LSP on site is a good thing.
And so when these Was it the tags that leaked? Is that was the first problem? Seems like it would have been if they were like looking for something. >> I'm not fully sure what the response was, but >> So they have to chase whatever. Let's say it's oil. They have to chase it and
they do sidewall samples until they meet whatever standards. And so the only limiting factor that would be would be the wetland, but they would have to chase this probably up to the highway and all the way across the site if they kept on getting hits higher than
allowed. Um, and so that was our experience at Mlets and Morgan where we were only stopped by running out of hits for the wetlands. So I would think once they do that and the
site's clean, they'll put the tanks in and fill it with clean soil. So anything that's found now is new. And so that whole process would happen again. And I don't know if anyone here has ever smelled petroleum impacted soil. It's everyone knows you can't get away from
it. And even the contractors will recognize it. But just one more thing, they never remove the soil from sight because that's that's the biggest issue. It has to be tested first. And so we we
will know about it. Our first order of conditions has a whole bunch of uh conditions that say if this is found, we're to be alerted. You need to tell us what the plan is. We need to be part of um the procedure moving forward. We had
um our old chair from uh Wesson and Samson help us with some of that language who does these site cleanups. So I think we're kind of covered on that through the first order. >> I've been out of the field for 30 years.
So bear with me. But the premise was every tank underground at a gas station leaked between that spillage or whatever. every my biggest clients at that time were mobile
>> and senogo >> and it was a whole can of worms >> these projects just went on forever and ever I don't know at our level a town level if we should be concerned about that it's probably a bigger higher level
I used to deal with EPA not with towns really and projects >> well that that'll all take off without us if there's a problem there the LSP will have to shut the site down and and and um go through the procedures with D. Like I said, they work for D.
>> If they're trying to attach this to a previous approval that we did, I don't think that's the right process. >> What What are we missing out of the original approval? We talked about a little piece of drainage
coming off the uh the the tarmac going into the wetlands. This is a whole thing where >> No, no. Can you go over what the first one because No, there was more to it. We actually the conservation commission added that part. >> Yeah, they they that was what we wanted.
>> So, >> I can go over Sorry, my laptop just died, but I will I will explain it. Um the original scope of the project was just a general like above ground refresh of the gas station including replacement of all the fuel pumps and replacement of
that concrete pad um where the cars would sit. So that was the original scope and the applicant now is saying, you know, if we're doing this work and putting this work into the site, we really should have the state-of-the-art
new underground storage tanks. >> My understanding there was some digging going on. Um, and there was something being replaced. I'm not sure. >> They were the tank caps, I think it was. So something under the pad but where the
uh connection was between the pumps and the tank itself. I think that was the tank cap that they were talking. >> Yeah, that sounds correct. >> I'm not an expert, >> but it wasn't the tank itself. So I don't know how deep that went. >> Yeah, I don't know. >> Um even so so this is a amended order of
conditions. If you have any conditions that we should add, this is, you know, this would be where you would put them. So, we are reviewing this separate piece just like it came in on its own. So,
well, if they're going to discover bad soil, the condition would be they have to remediate and also ensure that none is leeched over into the wetlands or wouldn't that
be dictated by DE? the the protocol in the first place. >> That's that's my problem. >> I'm asking >> that's my problem. I don't think it's simply our jurisdiction. >> Well, if there were an issue, it goes beyond
our jurisdiction, but this works is in our jurisdiction. So, that's the first step is rules are not disabled conditions. And then if and only there's an issue that would be dealt with at the
appropriate levels by the appropriate. >> So they would be just as concerned about the wetlands contamination as we are. >> Absolutely. And the LSP like he like Chuck said he he they work
with the EP closely and in fact their livelihood uh depends on them doing that job properly. if they were to shade it too much either way, you can either lose the license and then the L goes away and
just an SP um or something else. And so clearly it's in their best interest to do it, right? >> Okay. So we can approve and Big Brother is watching out for it. >> Well, we have a requirement that an LSP
has to be on site. So that person is there. they've told us that they've hired someone, but we can put we can we can uh say that again in this uh amended order of conditions as one of the conditions >> strengthen.
Okay. Any other questions? Proidence. >> I guess I would feel more comfortable if we're putting conditions on to make sure that we specify that conditions include testing the soil around the tanks. Um,
just to be sure. >> Well, also between the tanks and the wetlands in my opinion. >> Right. Well, I was assuming if you're going around the tank, you're covering all sides. Are you thinking extra testing on the wetland side?
>> Well, if if they discover problems, say 20 ft away from the tank. Hang on a >> second. Is there Mr. Hughes? >> I'm sorry. >> Just hypothetical. If there's a problem
20 ft away from the tank, they should go another 20, another 30, whatever towards the wetlands. >> Yeah. >> Etc., etc. As long obviously, the problem has to be on their property. If it's in the wetlands, I don't know what we would do.
>> Yep. Well, it's Yeah. wouldn't be our wouldn't be our property that would um problem that would Well, it's partly our problem. we would be advised, but oil spills, uh, I'm sure the LSP would call in a cleanup company. They would have to
put out, uh, you know, um, those floatable containment and >> Yeah. >> out the So, that doesn't happen with us. >> Yeah. I'm not talking about spills on top of the surface. I'm talking about what the hell's been going on for years
underneath the surface. Oh, >> you're getting me worried. But I I'm I'm hoping these test pits are uh and and you never know which way groundwater is going, where the clay is, but but you know, um
I think um I think we're covered, but if you want to take a minute, I'll see if I can find the original order of conditions. We can kind of look at some of those conditions. I I found the amendment, but I haven't been fortunate enough to find
Um, I would just say one more thing that I think on principle I approve of putting in new leak proof oil tanks rather than what they were going to do
in the first place, which was >> just >> Yeah. Um, cosmetic and didn't make sure that the tanks underground were sa safe and leak proof, not leaking. So I like that. I like that you're coming with
this request. I just want to make sure we do it right. >> Yeah, I I agree. So if that's the thing that we're jurisdiction over, that's the right term behind. But go ahead, then let's do it. As long as there's somebody, some organization,
something monitoring if there's a problem. >> Yeah, I see. That was small plane taking off. Give you a minute there or two. Any other comments, questions in the meantime.
Yeah. So, I'm not going to be able to reach out and contact the server because I'm not connected to it at this moment. And on our website, we only have we have everything except for the final recorded order of conditions
>> from what I'm seeing. That usually happens after all the I mean, which is pretty standard because we put things up there prior to issuing the order of conditions and then we don't put up the final one. What's the procedure for approving an
amended order of conditions? Do we close the hearing and then move to approve or does it not need to have a two-step process? >> No, this is same. It would be the same as in uh closing a notice of intent.
close add any conditions and then the issue amended conditions >> he said he says jumping ahead in the script >> so
>> so find a motion to close >> I I think that's the next step is a motion to close >> okay I would move to close this here oh did we check for anybody comments >> a good Does anybody in the room have any questions or comments? What about the
person next to you? No. Uh, is there anybody on Zoom? And if so, same thing as last time. Find reactions option at the bottom. Choose raise hand. Click on that and Chuck will watch for
the raised hand. Uh, hold on. See none. >> Okay. >> Right. I move to close this hearing on 87 Walkers Brook Drive. >> Can I get a second?
I want I reck in favor in favor. >> Michelle in favor. >> Martha Moore in favor. >> Randall in favor. Okay. Are there any
conditions we want to add? >> I have found the um what I think is the order of conditions. The draft a draft should be not put it up. >> Yeah, this is a draft. >> That would be misleading.
>> So, yeah, I'll have to provide that if there's any questions. Not working. uh in real time. So >> then conditions, what conditions, if any, do we want to add to that long list
that we have for the first time? We've already got erosion control protecting the wetlands >> and very importantly we have uh specified a certain sequence the work should be done in they have to close the
gap before they do any breaking surface elsewhere. So I think the only condition I would add is to be sure that we're testing for the presence of any contaminants in the soil.
>> Right. Yeah. Worst case if it's there already then we're covered. So say it again. And you want to request the tanks as well. New tanks. >> Oh that that's what they're asking to do. >> That's the actual >> Okay. >> That's the whole point. So that's the only condition then, Chuck, is to
specify a requirement for testing the soil. >> You're right. I did say I approve of the new test. >> Anything else? Any other conditions that we had, Chuck? Do you have anything else that we missed? Yeah, I'm going to say uh we're going to require an LSP on site and as they any findings they'll share
those findings with the consulation commission and that uh all conditions um approved for their original order of conditions and the first amendment will uh be still be in effect.
So those are my conditions. >> Can I have a motion to issue an amended order of conditions? >> So moved. Walter Talbert seconds. >> Walter Talbert approves.
Rick in favor. >> Michelle in favor. >> Martha Moore in favor. >> Rambo in favor. Okay. Thank you. >> Time. >> Sorry. Uh let me see find the agenda.
>> All right. So next on the agenda that was our last hearing by the way. >> So if if you I I do have this. Give me a second. I can just read. This is from the original. says, "During the excavation, soil will be tested, stockpiled, and contained on site, and
disposed of offsite in accordance with chapter 21. Uh, groundwater will be pumped into a fractation tank on site, disposed of offsite in accordance with chapter 21." So, goes through all this stuff about how these documents are
going to be two shows limited work. We're not exceed this. We're exceeding it with this order of conditions or this amendment. And um I think these uh requiring the LSP is uh
noted, but it's good to add it anyways. And um to ensure that nothing you said remediate to ensure that nothing gets into the wetland. That's
right. So, that's the other condition. So, I think we're covered because it has all this language from before. And yeah, and what we're going to add here. So, I hope that makes you feel a little bit better.
>> All right. Thank you. >> Okay. So then let's move on to fction the fussion vote items. This is uh zero net lane.
This is a request the commission to review and determine whether the proposed installation of two sheds as depicted on the submitted plan may be approved as a minor plan change. >> Introduce yourself please. Uh Dale
Harvey it's uh they changed it's 15 and that now >> I knew that but we're doing zero to be continuous with >> uh yeah so there's just a few things we wanted to add uh or amend it was you know a couple sheds um you know a small fence in the backyard be can chain link for our you
know dog and then there's a propane tank and a future generator. I I was talking to Chuck and he just said anything I could think of in the future we might add just to do it now. Um, and you know, it's all minor stuff. The propane tank was in the front.
Everything is in already disturbed, like no new disturbed areas. Everything's already in the work zone, aside from the chain link fence, which would be no excavation. It would just be pile driven, kind of like the boardwalk was. Um, so there'll be no disturbance to any of that area out there. And it's just
for the animals to keep the dog in the yard. Okay. Is that it? That's pretty good. That's it. Any questions, comments from the commission? >> I almost missed that. What was What was the change? Sorry. Can you I almost
missed that. Like what was the change is uh to the plan? >> Uh no, we were just adding the two sheds. >> Okay. >> Um originally going to do a propane tank next to the house. We wanted to do it inground just to make it look a little nicer so the neighbors not staring at it. >> Um and then a future generator if we
ever decide to. Uh, and then just the chain link fence in for the dogs. >> Okay, thanks. >> On your plan, it says 6 foot white privacy fence. >> I was just going to do it on the side for priv just on the left side for the for privacy. Um, we can be
>> up above says five foot black chain. >> Okay. >> Yes, that's on the back side. The left side was just it's only like a maybe a 25 foot section just to kind of give privacy from the neighbor. >> Okay. Yep. >> Um, are you aware that at the bottom of
the fence there has to be space left for wildlife to move back and forth? >> So, um, which is there >> oversized dogs you have, but >> Okay. >> Consider that if it's a small dog, you might have an issue there. >> Is it like a 4 in space? I don't I'm not
really I'm not sure how I didn't >> Yeah, that's fine. We're not talking deer moving underneath. >> Okay. Yeah. No, that's fine. Yep. And it's not to leave the dog out there. It's kind of just to go out to the bathroom, not have her run into the woods, and then come back in the house.
>> Any other questions, comments? >> So, for the the shed on the left side, sorry, Chuck, the shed on the left side, there's no additional like tree removal. >> No, no tree removal and everything that's on the plan aside from the fence is in the area um that was disturbed
from the original building. The shed on the left side's actually sitting completely on ledge. That's a The whole house is on a rock. >> Took three weeks of hammering. It was not fun. >> The diagram of the 12 by 12 shed looks
like a rectangle to me. >> Yeah, it was just a it was a print on it. Yeah. I don't know why it's not proportionate, but it's 15 feet off the house. Yeah, it'll be 12 12 feet from the 15 foot mark. I don't know why it's rectangle. Will the sheds have any sort of ramp
going into them or are they at ground level? >> They'll be at ground level. Um the left one I'm going to the ground on the I mean the elevations of the house kind of really drop down in the backyard. So we would contemplating about doing on the left side, but if it's going to be an an
issue, I can, you know, it's not a big deal. We can actually I can excavate the loom to make it so there's no built ramp if that's makes it better. Um yeah, just um mostly I'm thinking in terms of um
storm water runoff. You're adding 12 x 16 + 12 by 12. Does your existing storm water tanks infiltration systems accommodate that extra roof runoff?
>> So, I talked to Chuck about that. I asked the engineer. He said because they're built off the ground 10 inches and it's stone underneath. It's the same thing since all the ground's still pious. So, all the water running off the roof can go right underneath the shed and it's still going into the ground whether the shed was there or it's not.
I'm not disturbing anything, but the four corners will have four 10 x 10 blocks, 10 inch x 10 inch blocks. >> Does that make sense to you, Chuck? I don't know. We've done that before. >> When we went over this, uh, it did make
sense. I also asked that question, um, kind of making sure that, uh, we had the answers to everything I anticipated the commission to ask. And so if it's raised up and there's uh gravel underneath. >> Yes. >> Um I think that it has an opportunity,
you know, maybe a condition if if you wanted to add one. Uh but you have to think about this because this is a minor plan. But if you know, a couple conditions fine, but if it's wholesale, you might want to bump it up to an amendment. So um that that area can't be
blocked. you know, I don't know, like critters an issue, you know, use uh garden fabric, but you can't use like a board to block that area. >> Something like that. >> Yeah. I mean, in the shed, like I said, it's sitting on a complete rock, so it's not draining as it sits right now.
Anyways, that entire left side of the house is all ledge and solid. I'm gonna have like six inches of loom on top of rock. >> Enough times to me that very quickly. 17 triacles of stone came out of there.
>> Are the sheds being assembled off site and then delivered? >> No, I'm going to build them personally myself. >> So, you're So, where where are you going to have like storage of materials for the construction of the sheds? >> Right in the driveway because they'll be built um the house is already framed. So, pending an approval, we probably
build them right away. So, we still have the driveway and everything is where all the lumber stays and gets built and then we carry it over to do any of the construction. And then you're just going to kind of bring them around where the 35 foot buffer is to the left side for that. >> Yes. Yeah. There's like a you know maybe from the corner of that front porch there's like a six foot opening where
you can get around the front left of the house. >> Okay. >> They'll be carried. You can't get a machine there. So we just going to have to hand carry everything. >> Yeah. Maybe the next question is any machinery anticipated but >> um
is there any issues of what's being stored in the sheds? I'm thinking about like gasoline powered lawnmowers and stuff like that. Do we have to worry about um contaminants leaking from what's being stored inside the sheds? I
>> mean, mostly just yard stuff, kids toys. Uh I bought an electric lawn mower, so it won't be a gas one. Um I do have a tractor, but it it's a small one. It doesn't fit in the shed, so yeah, it'll probably just be and it's diesel. Um it'll probably just be yard stuff, kids toys, bikes, you know, random stuff. The
one on the front um will be more like tools for my my construction, just random, you know, hammer nails, guns, things like that, you know. >> So, not um gas tanks. >> No, no, I don't think it's a great idea to put gas in the shed anyways.
>> Okay. >> Okay. So, we are considering this as a minor plan change. >> No, I'm gonna ask some questions first. I just wanted to make sure we understood that before I closed the position. >> Oh, you had me. Yeah, I I fell right
into that. >> Okay. Um, so did we review the criteria for thought we would agree it's a minor plan change? >> Okay. >> Say your piece.
>> Okay. Thanks. Um, so I was wondering why you need two sheds. And I I guess why I can ask this is because under the WPA, we're we're all about alteration. So you're alterating you're altering
another area. So is it absolutely necessary that you need two sheds? >> The one on the left side is for the house. The one on the the small 12 by 12. It's actually that's sitting on a rock as well, but that was just going to be for, you know, my personal business stuff just to put things in and out of
there for my van. So, they're two separate things. >> Having a lot of stuff, I'm going to say yes, you need two, right? >> Yeah. But, I mean, I could if if it was a yes or no, I' i'd deal with one, but two would be preferable if I could. >> Does this have a garage? This house? >> It does. It has a two-car garage right
in the top of the driveway. >> Okay. So, there you have the garage. You have a basement. Full basement. >> Yes. and and you need two sheds. >> Okay. Um >> coming from eight acres in Boxford and downsizing >> from bigger house, smaller what?
>> Um so is there any I think that we said this in the original, but that no copper gutters or anything on this because copper >> aluminum standard >> plays havoc on vernal pools. >> Nope. >> Yeah. So okay. So, no copper. And then
you have one of these sheds is uh located on the 35 foot line. And I know you're building it yourself. Is there is there do you have the ability with the fact that you're like stick framing it to um kind of move it a little bit?
>> Yeah, I can slide it back. The only reason I put it there, like I said, it's sitting on a piece of ledge. That was the only reason. It's like a the left side of the shed. It drops off about six feet. It's sitting on a rock. But I can slide it back to get it in that 35 if that's what you'd like. >> Believe it. Believe it or not, that's a helpful question even though you have to
do work because we would need a variance request if you're over the 35 foot and you need to be in a different permit to do that. So, it's great that you can move that. >> And I know you did a lot of work on this part. I'm just asking so that work doesn't go, you know, silent.
>> I noticed that you have your fence over the drainage easement line. Can you let me know if you talked to the engineering department and got uh you know about that? >> Ryan's on vacation. I went down twice. The other gentleman I guess was busy. I never got a phone call back. So I went
to water and sewer, talked to Mike Kensman, Jeff Cummings, and Peter Isbel. And they all said it should be perfectly fine. Um they were had no problem with it and said it would be okay on on their wash. But >> yep. >> And they wrote it. I think they did it
on the permit. I saw it came up on my portal too that they approved it. >> And I I just want to let everybody know that I received an email from uh the three horsemen, Mike and uh Jeff and uh who else was the other? Pete, Isabel,
and they're saying that um uh they don't have a problem with putting the fence over this easement. Uh it will not interfere any of the issues that they have and that represent the water department. Uh uh Mike Kesman is
uh assistant DPW director and Jeff Cummings is the highway director. So that's basically the town's workforce and so they don't think there's going to be any issues and they've also made notes on the open gov permit that's in our system just saying that they have no
issues. Um, I wanted to ask since you're here in front of us and you've been on the site for a little bit of time, have you noticed anything that we didn't anticipate when we, you know, approved this site as far as
>> like more animals than possible, trees that that we should have to >> protection on the trees because I know it's a big issue. We put wrapped the bottoms, we had plywood on them, making sure nothing hit them when we were working. Um, >> do you think the driveway and drainage is working? Uh, you know, like the
driveway is kind of in place, nothing's spilling out. >> The neighbor on the right, um, they all they did tell me since the previous owner put the driveway and those infiltration chambers in, they used to pep puddling in their backyard and they don't get it anymore. So, it must be catching all the water that used to run off of the property that went into their
backyard. It must be doing it. >> You see a net lane? >> On a net lane. Yeah. On the corner of a net in Martin. >> And they don't get the pudding in their backyard anymore. So, whatever they did in the driveway is already working to help them out. >> That's good news. Did you happen to uh
ever look at those uh pine trees that were damaged and how did those look? Do they look like they're healing themselves or do you think that's a problem in the future? >> Tree expert, but they they darkened up and they look like they're starting to I mean, I don't know if they grow bark. I'm not really sure the whole >> I actually got that ball some stuff and
recoded them all. >> Yeah. >> Um and I I don't know. I'm not like I said, I don't really know what I'm looking at. I just figured the more I do, the better it will be. >> Well, you know, the right guy that uh that went out there in the first place and did it. So, I think uh he's uh he's
an operist and um I think it was his recommendation that put that black balsom on it. And um I know it's not I mean whether that works or not is his is >> definitely darkened up since we started. So, it's doing something like the it was like a lighter color when we first started the house. Now, the bark is
really dark in those areas. So, it's changing. >> And the my last question has to do with the the pathway that's in there. I don't know if people are using it. Do you have any intention? When's your when is the timing to take down that chain fence on the is it Applegate on that side?
>> Yes. Uh Oh, are you talking about the opposite side? >> Yeah. >> I can take that down whenever. I don't even know why that's there. I mean, people use that every day. I met probably half the neighborhood through that, which is kind of kind of nice. I actually me and my wife kind of enjoy it, so it's been a good thing. My daughter loves that. Calls it the dock.
So, she loves hanging out on it. >> Well, she'll that's a that's an actual wetland there. So, if she gets goes out there on big night, which is when the vernal pool things happen, she might see activity. She uh will see frogs and
other things going by. And I we were out there. Didn't we see a uh a raccoon walking around? >> There's a few of them actually. I'm on camera in the dumpsters. >> Oh, it'd be a great place for a wildlife camera for sure. >> Yeah. Um, just wanted to bring it up. It's uh it's up to you, but of course before the uh certificate of compliance,
we would want to have it come down and we'll do a complete check of the whole place. But yeah, thanks for the update. >> So, you're saying you want the fence to be taken down on the other side? Is that >> up to you? >> No, I don't mind. I don't even I don't >> prior to requesting a certificate of compliance. So, that would be at the very end of your project.
>> No, I take it down. It's not doing anything. I mean, people going through whether the fence is there or not. So, might as well take it down if it's you guys want. Great. Okay. Any last thoughts? All right. Um, >> I move that we accept this as a minor
plan change. >> Walter Talbert seconds that Walter Talbert approved. >> Rick in favor. J 350. >> Michelle in favor. >> Moore in favor. >> Do you I don't know if minor plan change. I'm not sure anyone's here to
talk about this. Is there anybody out on Zoom who has questions, comments about this hearing? I apologize for forgetting about >> and you want to use the reaction button and use the raise hand function if you
have any questions um pertaining to 15 and lane >> aka zet lane. >> Yeah, as we're tracking at zero. >> Uh seeing none. Okay. So, we have voted and you are free to go.
>> Okay. >> Enjoy night. Thank you guys very much. Good luck. >> Okay. Um all new business. Uh the first is a request for people to join us. Qualified commission members
needed. Uh, if you read the agenda, at the top of the agenda, you'd see that Chuck basically wrote some text about that, but we have uh some current openings and we maybe get an additional
openings and we do have an associate opening as well. So, we are looking to add some people to our group, our married band. Um, it would be great if these people had experience, some
background in environmental science, natural resource protection, engineering, or things like that. But, uh, truly will accept anybody. Uh, somebody who's willing to come in and learn the rules and regulations clearly
is a a mustave. >> And you want to tell them that this is a working mission. Um, everybody goes to site visits. So, it's not just the time that we put at this meeting and the time you take into reviewing all the projects. We had a group of people last
year going out watering a uh habitat um planting area that we did at Bare Meadow and they didn't fail. They were out there as needed until uh until uh you didn't need to water anymore and they'll be out there again. So these things come
up and we call on our commission to go and check out sites. Also, uh Joe, I didn't have an opportunity to look. I know you may know when the next VAS committee is scheduled for generally. >> I have to put you on the spot.
>> Yeah. Know I thought it was like existing members um needed to complete applications by the end of the month, I believe, if I'm not mistaken. And then typically it's it's like right in June. Unfortunately, I don't have the dates
written in front of May here, but there was an email from Laura Jim on this. Um, here we go. BASC meetings will be scheduled between May 16th and June 15th. And the select board will vote on all appointments and reappoints for terms beginning July 1st, 2026 at their
meeting on June 23. >> So consider the application period is between May and June. no later than May 31st, please complete a volunteer application and return it to the town clerk. >> All right. So, that's that's important that we let put that out there. So, you
have to have uh anyone interested in joining the conservation commission um would have to have an application completed and turned into the town clerk by May 31st. >> It's for associate members to go up to
full seat appointment. I would have to get back on the other date, unfortunately. What about a uh just a person that wants to apply for full membership? It's all May 31st. >> It doesn't say specifically in here. It's just that the meetings will be May
16th to June 15th on here. >> The link is on the uh tonight's agenda and we'll keep that link on the agenda until probably >> the end of June. And so, uh, you can go to the link and find that information yourself or you're welcome to call the
town clerk. Uh, reach out, uh, to anyone in town hall. We're sure we can get you to the right person. All right. And as you can see, tonight was a quick meeting. So, if you join us, you won't be here till midnight. Those are the bad old days
um, for the most part. Um, okay. Then moving on. Next item is the second annual Green Communities Garden Party um at the Reading Public Library. This is
on June 18th from 6:00 to 8. Um I will be there for that one. Uh you know where the community room is, right? Yeah. >> They set up tables. There's probably 25 organizations of one kind or another
around the room and traffic goes around. So you get some chance to interact with some of the public uh I find just as useful as interacting with other groups uh ones that are have a likeminded mission and
other ones altogether. So, as I said, I will be there. Having more than one person is always a good thing. It's only two hours. You're indoors. You can't get rained on. So, uh I would appreciate it very much if uh one or two other hearty
souls were there as well. Um does anybody think they could be there? I think, but I can confirm in uh the next meeting. I usually have to take my daughter out for tennis which will check with okay
>> I can probably do six to seven >> so I can help out at least for that part >> do we have three events that week >> yeah there's something on 20th >> 20th is the something >> friends and family day is the 20th
>> the 20th y okay I will be able toend >> yeah we'll do Okay. Um, next item then is bare metal habitat area planning assessment Tuesday, April 21st.
>> Mr. DPW >> DPW, but that's Chuck's area. I didn't want him speaking. >> No, go ahead. >> I just going to give you an update. Uh, so me and Mike Kesman spent the day today driving around. I know it wasn't on May 7th, but we had some stuff to do.
We needed to look at um some invasives that are growing in the town forest. And so we have an invasive permit for the town forest committee that will expire before the snow flies. So they have an
opportunity to use herbicides on the aliantist tree and some do not weed and whatnot. But Jeff um Lamson >> Jeff Lamson from Town Forest Commission >> the chair of the town forest committee wants to be more uh environmental and
they're going to do a lot of as much polling as they can themselves but there's some areas where um like um what were we after? We were after um garlic mustard. the garlic mustard was so uh uh pervasive in these areas that
he thought that he wanted to talk to commission about a um you know a process to do that and uh so I'll let him speak when he gets here and they'll be here in uh within our next two meetings. So uh but they will also
be asking additional they're going to ask for that permit to be extended for another three years. Um, so what's happening with the permit is we have kind of like a lot of work and a lot of money evaluating town forest and then a
map that shows all these areas that they were working on. Well, most of those are done. And so now the committee wants to know since you know the area so well, they want to modify that map themselves. They want to draw in an area that's as
accurate as they can with the GIS and you know they're linked to the DPW. So, they're going to do a good and accurate map, do their own assessment, and use that map that they've modified instead of spending money on that and put the money into uh treatment when needed and
uh just to stretch out the money. They were able to get some money for town. So, we're going to talk about new treatment areas that will be shown on this old map that's been modified and we're going to talk about um how that's going to happen and then
also to extend the uh approval that the conservation commission has done and typically that's about what you're using it on and what you're using and how you're applying it. So >> I thought for the most part they had
focused on Buckthornne. >> They did and so and what I what I've heard is Jeff wants to really attack that with volunteers now. >> That's not going to be >> that's not going to be cut and dab anymore. >> Okay,
>> that's not a good spend of that money. But what is a good spend is like the aliant street tree of heaven and some buckthornne and there's some other stuff out there u that >> garlic mustard the black swallow award wart >> swallow a wart was another thing they
mentioned yeah I I don't know >> I just the way you were talking >> it's it's going to come in it's going to come in that huge package and we're going to have to look at it >> get it when he when he brings it >> um the next thing on the agenda is uh is uh
and also for me we're going to call this a public information uh announcement and so uh so the bear meadow habitat area planting and assessment is Tuesday is really no it's not >> we rescheduled to Monday
>> it's Monday now Mondays walk through yesterday >> oh okay okay yeah it's now it's Monday another date U >> so what you're talking about is not what's up on the screen right
>> 2 27 no >> that's coming up >> 27th of April >> might as well report on that now anyways also so we're going to do the habitat study we're going to walk out there we have Carl Sakonei uh landscape designer who's an associate member of the
commission helped us put these uh areas together helped us choose plants and we want to talk about water how much water when we have to water. What else can we do out there? I want to talk about um stopping the access to the
interior field area and um uh it's slowing down, that's for sure. But we want that to be the habitat and we want people to enjoy their walk around the field, not through it anymore. And I know there's a lot of people out there
using it. you know, at least they could, you know, allow at least they could accommodate us by walking on the path that we provided. It's a longer walk. Maybe it's get their steps in. I'm not sure. Instead of
cutting through the field, which is um you know, it's for many reasons it's not a good idea, but uh ticks for one and uh the uh the ground wasps, but um certainly uh it also
takes down everything >> and anytime you're kind of cutting through a field, it creates a path which invites other people. So basically, you're saying, "Walk this way." >> Can you put a little sign up that says, "Take a work." Thank you.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we can put some educational signs up there. I have some ideas of how we may spend our money this year uh regarding the field, but I'm not but signage is uh you know, it's good and bad. I mean, you know, you have
people understanding what's out there, but then you have a sign, you know, right in the middle of a beautiful field. >> I don't mean a a permanent plastic or metal sign. I'm just saying something on a board that you put there so it looks like oh my gosh this is really happening rather than
>> Yeah. We have talked about restoration area. We talked about having a sign with a picture of the American women to say that's what we're trying to bring back here. >> So Chuck, you're saying that walk is going to take place on April 27th.
Who are you inviting to join on that walk? So, it's Carl and it's the watering crew, which is Joe and Rick and who am I missing? Joe, Rick, Will Finch. Yeah.
>> And then Garrett um has been helping, you know, when he can. So, he's uh he's like the, you know, associate member, I guess. But anyways, we had we had it set up so they would water every other day and um a lot of communication had to
happen. But the whole point is um you know, don't let the trees die, protect your investment. So, we're prepared to do watering again this year and we're just going to do an assessment uh which is a needed step and we'll report on that at the next meeting. >> But again, we are still in a drought. So,
>> and and you'll be lucky. I'll we'll we'll appoint somebody just like at site visits to do this uh report uh and you won't have to hear me. So before we move on, I just want to throw this in. So uh so uh planting for the future. So uh the
Reading Town Forest is going to hold an event on April 25th, 2006 between 9 and three. And they ask that you join them for this event. And um it's it's great for all ages. And there's more details when you register for one of these time
slots. There's 9 to 11, 11 to 1, and 1 to three. And so they need people. I think it was rained out last year, >> but they always need people. >> It rained, but it happened >> in the rain. >> They had 500 saplings to plant. It was a
great event last year and they want people to show up and it was a good uh a good time for everyone and you can see all the work it's done in the town forest and uh by cutting down the pine trees that were going to basically fall on people. It was a safety measure and
now they're doing the replanting which was a request from the conservation commission but also uh they volunteered on their own because they love the town forest and they want to see it uh you know uh in a better situation than it is now. So uh please join them on the April
25th. Have any questions? You can reach out to the town force committee uh through those links. That's it. So, let me go back to the violation notices.
Um, so 445 Pearl Street, I did manage to speak to the um the the wife of Michael Rivers, whose name I cannot think of. Um, and
>> Annie, >> that's right. Okay. and I explained to her what we were trying to accomplish. Uh she said she would talk to Michael when he got home. Apparently she did because then Chuck got an email from Mike
essentially saying he would provide a schedule to get it completed soon. Have you got any more since we talked? And I sent out the schedule which was just an email just kind of phrasing that the fact that they're going to bring in some loom and they've ordered some planting
and that'll be happening in the next couple of uh couple of weeks. >> I sent that to the commission. >> Okay. I >> didn't see it. Sorry. >> I saw that email. My memory is that we had asked for willow stakes on the
slopes and the email that he's described does not seem to mention willow stakes. Um, I'm not sure we asked for it. Um, >> it was in the >> approved plan. >> The approved plan. >> In the approved plan from Thor Aran. >> Yeah.
>> So, I've been kind of watching to see when the willow stakes are going in. >> Sure. So, you want me to make sure that he has willow stakes? >> The willow is usually >> tublings. Willow tublings.
Two per linear foot of bank stabilization is what's on the approved plan. And then seed mix and erosion control blankets on the slopes, >> right? >> Okay. So, yeah. All right. I got it.
Tublings, seed mix, and the blanket. And while I was there, I brought Amy over to the Southern Bank to show her the two erosion channels and said that Mike had to fix those
filing and stabilizer. He mentioned that in the email that's per street. Uh, >> do we want to mention the tree that got taken down? >> Uh, it's not part of B Street. That's the next. >> Okay.
>> Yeah. Um, so then minutes for approval. We can approve the first three. So, can I have a motion to approve February 25th minutes? >> I'll make a motion to approve the
February 25th minutes. >> Walter Tobit seconds. Walter Thomas in favor. Kio in favor in favor. >> Michelle in favor. >> Martha Moore in favor. >> Brian Mo in favor. Okay. Um can have a motion to approve March 11th.
>> I'll make a motion to approve the March 11th minutes. >> Walter Talbert seconds. Walter Talbert approves. >> In favor in favor >> and Michelle in favor. >> Martha Moore in favor. >> Brian Row in favor. I have a motion to
approve March 25th. >> I'll make a motion to approve the March 25th minutes. >> Walter Talbot seconds. Walter Talberts in favor. >> You in favor? >> In favor. >> Michelle in favor. >> Martha Moore in favor. >> Ryan go in favor. Okay, good. We're
almost caught up. Emily did send out the April 8th, but it was uh yesterday, whatever. So, we'll do that next time. and Emily, when you get this to transcribe it, but thank you very much for getting us caught up. I appreciate that very much. Uh any last thoughts
before we go our separate ways? >> Yes, I just want to let everybody know that uh our environmental went out to Mlets and Morgan today and they're under contract to do to maintain that property mostly invasive and making sure that the falls
are unclogged and they do a lot of that work. We they also evaluate the freshly planted trees and the shrubs. It's a little bit too early to do that, but the trees look great. Some of the shrubs are a little questionable right now. I think
that everyone needs to know that. Um I know this group is mostly outside of this area, but um you know, the banks along the pond look good. Um there's a couple areas that we have to keep an eye on. There's two um Canada
geese out there and they look quite comfortable. And then uh so Joe has uh some coyote decoys that we used last year and I brought two down this morning and put them uh put them along that one
pond. So there's four around that pond now. I mean Joe's can move them anywhere he needs and we can get more. And we've also uh we also have some other things that we ordered and um I'll be distributing to people. I don't know who else lives down there or gets there long
enough, but um maybe it would be good to um you know find someone else who kind of lives where you live and uh have that kind of access. So um just just uh we have something that's approved, but I don't want to like shut it shout it out.
I'll tell everyone later, but it but it does uh keep the geese away. Um it's not toxic or anything like that. It's not chemicals, it's not powder, it's something else. So, um that's my only report other than that. U
we're working hard on uh Sturgeis Park and it looks like some plans are coming together. DPW, although they approved everything we asked for, it's going to be a hit or miss year. They are underst staffed at this point. Um, and I'm I'm
just thrilled that they accepted to do another slate of work for us. And when that gets done, it's kind of us and the town forest committee who are a separate entity. Um, but but when we do work, it's hard to separate us from them. So,
we talk about it as if it's well, we're all the same. And so, uh, we're going to be doing more bark mulch. We're going to be hopefully building a bridge, hopefully creating another path down there. So, we have a loop trail with a bridge in between so it would form a
figure eight. Um, and some other things came up today about kind of getting some better access down by South Street. And that's uh in the thought process with the DPW. Um, and so >> what do you mean by better access? So,
if you go down towards South Street through the trail, there's a um the water the it's Sturgis Brook kind of goes underneath the road and there's a guardrail which pushes people out close to the street. You can see a trail. We
talked about several ideas to make the trail behind the guard rail and we're checking on a few things and if that can happen, people can be as safe as they want walking behind the guardrail and connecting to our our path that we've been building for the last
couple years. >> I had that thought when I was walking there the other day to meet um Bobo. >> Yeah, >> because some cars are flying down South Street. Just uh note you mentioned town
forest committee and us, but did you really mean trails committee and us working at Sturgeis Park? >> I could I could say yeah, I forgot to mention the trails committee, but it's the conservation commission when we do projects. It's like we're helping the town forest committee, they're helping
us. Same with the trails. We're all one group when we work together. So town forest committee is in fact working at Sturgis Park along with >> not the town forest committee I haven't seen but uh I actually one member showed up a couple a couple of times um to do
something actually we always have Brandy she's on both committees and um a a great help and a big uh you know very motivated person um and so but I think there was another town forest member there too but that's mostly
trails They're mostly doing the trail work when it's we're creating trails, but um we always get town forest and some conservation members there too. Like Joe, you've been there, right? He's on the conservation commission. And Rick
was going to show up, but then it's he had to go to Hawaii. >> So good. >> Had to. >> Yeah. >> But uh tough life. >> Somebody has to do it. >> Yeah. And and you know when we did Mlets and Morgan, it was a mix of both trails committee and conservation that day
>> and the select board >> and we had a member from the select board which was great. Chris, thank you for showing up. >> Okay, any comments? No. Good. Can I have a motion to adjourn at 8:57? >> So moved.
>> All in favor? >> Thank you. >> Good night, guys. >> Good night. LSP. >> It's LSP. >> They have the same concept in aerospace. >> They had two kinds. One were called
captives. They worked for the companies, but they were all