here. All right, here we go. Okay, here we go. Hello everyone. This is Chuck Terron, Readings, conservation administrator. Uh, this meeting will be conducted in person and remote format consistent with chapter 2 of the act of 2023,
which further extends certain COVID 19 measures regarding remote participation in public meetings until June 30th, 2027. Please note, not all items may be in fact discussed and other items not
listed may be brought up for discussion. to the extent permitted by law. These agendas include those items which can be reasonably anticipated be discussed at this meeting. Please note that this meeting is being recorded and uh all material for this meeting uh
is available at the conservation division page uh under projects by year. Brian B the chair's commission the commission's chair will facilitate this meeting. Please note there will be a public comment period at the end of each
hearing. Each vote will be taken uh by roll call and we will begin with a roll call attendance. Brian, can you review the agenda and take roll call attendance? >> Sure. I'll start by reviewing the agenda. The first and only hearing tonight is open
>> recording in progress >> for determination applicability for 102 John Carver Road. As I said, that's our only hearing. Then we have a number of discussion items. The first one uh is a diffic certificate compliance for 259
Main Street that we will not take up tonight. We'll do that in the future agenda. That'll be followed by a presentation about CPA. Then we have um a proposed plan change for 32 Harper Street and 15 carriage
lane is a certificate of alliance conversation. Then we have a discussion on our policy for accepting land donations and then we have a number of old new business items. Um first is an enforce enforcement item.
Uh the conservation staff DPW meeting and so I won't go into it. So this order I call people's name will be the order we vote in. Starting with Sherro. >> Uh Jerro Staker, member present. >> Walter Talbot, member present.
>> Tim Michelle, member present. >> Rick, member present. >> Martha Moore, vice chair present. >> Brian Bo, chair present. Thank you. >> Yeah. So, our first
order of business tonight or both order 704 um is uh 102 John Farmer Road. >> Thank you, commission members. >> Before you start, Jeff, anybody online be join the homeowners online? Sarah
as you see her online. >> So Sarah, if you want to raise your hand so Chuck can find you and let you in. >> Okay. Uh for the record, my name is Jack Sullivan. I'm owner of the Sullivan Engineering Group. Um this RDA is in front of you at 102 John Carver Road. Uh
Norse Environmental U performed the delineation. Um there's bank flagging and BVW flagging uh for this project. Um this does um abut the average river, but this portion of the river was determined to be intermittent
um under past filings. So um our work is really just uh we have a small amount of work proposed within the 100 foot BVW buffer. Um there's a proposed deck with steps. We're a little over 96 feet away from the border and vegetated wetland.
Uh with this project is an existing single family home that's outside the 100 foot buffer zone with a onecar garage. The onecar garage is going to be demolished basically in the same footprint but slightly larger. They're constructing a one and a half story um
garage with some living space above it. Um this project did go before the zoning board of appeals. They did um the owners did receive a special permit from the zoning board for approval. Uh so as I stated basically the the entire addition
is outside the foot just a small little portion of the deck in the steps are within the 100. The backyard is relatively flat. I do show spot grades. Uh we are proposing a 12-inch diameter uh mulch silk sock to be placed um at a
limit of work line. Um there's no trees to be removed. There's no breeding changes within the 100 foot buffer. Um so I think at this time I'll turn it over to the commission. I know you were on a sitewalk and to see if you have any questions on the project itself. Okay.
Um, people who are on it, somebody want to give a quick rundown of what we did out there, what we saw. >> Martha, and I'll meet you. >> Okay, happy to. Um, it is a big flat yard, so um, we haven't got a lot of
concerns about erosion from the project. Um, we did make note that the um 25 foot buffer zone um contains a swing set and a treehouse kind of structure. Um, and
there are not supposed to be structures inside the 25 ft zone. Um there's also a pile of grass clippings in the corner of the fence near um flag 1A behind the 16inch tree in that back corner. Um and
we also noticed that if you go through the gate to the shore of the river, there are some piles of um leaves and sticks and a remarkable fallen tree that goes across the stream there with a
enormous root ball behind it. Um so uh um I would suggest that part of the conditions for the project would be to um remove the glass grass clippings and the leaf piles down to the point where
the leaves are starting to decompose, take them to the compost center instead. Um, I would propose that when the children have outgrown the treehouse and the swing set or when the family puts the house up for sale, whichever comes
first, those should be removed, um, at that time. Um, and I had a couple of questions. One is um where is the construction entrance going to be and where are the stock
piles of soil and or materials going to be? >> Construction entrance will be the existing driveway. They'll use that for access. Um the soil stockpile it's it's going to be a garage. It's I don't think it's a full
basement. Um so I it's it's not going to be much excavation. I think they'll remove materials from the site. There's not much room to stockpile. If they did have to stockpile, it would be in the front yard outside the 100 foot office zone.
>> And is that where the materials will also be stockpiled is in the front yard? >> Yes. >> Okay. Anybody else caught anything I missed? >> If I remember correctly, there was no foundation for the garage, which
That's the >> So, there has to be some excavation of some form. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. They'll excavate down. They'll put in a frost wall with a footing, but that that's half the reason they're they're taking down the existing structure because there's no foundation to it. >> Then you move
as you go. >> As we go. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> I would just add, are you are you concerned about groundwater? Is do you think that's a concern here? >> No. We did notice that the downspouts for the house currently
um one goes onto the driveway and one um goes sort of next to those proposed steps um and uh onto a a grally area there. So they don't currently have
infiltration from the down spouts. It just goes onto the ground, but it's a a big long flat yard before the water would get to the stream. >> And actually, the slope kind of goes up, goes down a little bit from the house, but then kind of rises heading towards
the stream. >> So, do you have any plans to infiltrate the roof? >> No, I talked to the owner about that. Um, it wasn't an expense. They were >> They just had a baby. She just had a a baby boy. So, and I know their budget's
tight even to do this. So, I I I said to add infiltration would be5 to $10,000. And I said, "You're outside the 100." I said, "Typically with the commission, if I'm inside the 100 with an addition, I always show some type of infiltration, but on theirs, we weren't looking to do
that since we're outside the >> I'm just wondering whether perhaps a rain barrel at one of the downspouts would be within their budget and that would be useful to them that might give them a little bit of >> That's not a bad idea. Could Sarah speak
to that? Chuck, she's on. Yeah, she would like to unmute herself. >> I'm here. Yes. Hi. Um I think we would be open to that. Although, um perhaps on the side of the house, you know, aesthetically, I would want to put one on the front, but the way it's going to
be off the side of the house could could work quite well for that. Okay. >> So, would then just the water from the back of the house make it to the rain barrel or
would you put like a pipe slanting down along the side of the house going to a barrel in the back? >> Sarah, do you know off the if um off the front right corner of your house, is there a down spout to the ground there?
>> Yes. looking at the house on the front right corner. Um I mean it's just there's only one gutter in the front. It's such a small house. There is a down spout that it's directed on the side the right side of the house that goes the
back and because of the rating there on the right side of the house the um dissipates into the yard. >> So it sounds it sounds like she could put a rain uh barrel in that. Right. That right side where the gutter the
down spout comes down. >> Yeah. >> On the right side of that >> on the front. If if you're looking at the front of the house from the street on the right side, it sounds like there's a gutter with a down spout. If someone has Google Street View, I could see it. >> There's a there's a down spout. There's
a house and then the addition current edition on this corner. So, leftand corner of the right hand piece. This is a down spot that goes into the little garden and the water then runs under that area. >> Okay.
>> But I don't think you could run the water across. Right. So you have to be on the left hand side of the new addition going somewhere >> or in the back corner by the patio right
where the 100 foot line crosses the back corner of the house if there's a gutter back there. So back left but back right? >> Well on the side where it says existing chimney if you went back toward the backyard. Yeah >> there if there's a gutter there and a down spout that might work.
>> Um you know it I I think we don't need to nitpick where it is. If you can find an appropriate place for it I think that would be a positive addition to this plan. But um >> I except I would remove the if find a
place for it. >> Okay. >> So if we say we're going to find a place for a rain barrel and that's that's a condition. Sarah, does that work with you if we find a spot for the rain um a rain barrel? >> Yep. That's not a problem.
>> Any other questions from the commission? Chuck, you have any? Um, I don't have any questions. Uh, the it just sounded like there was there was a gate in the back and you said that the
um pile of yard waste was over by uh flag number one. >> No, 1a. >> 1 A >> inside just inside the corner of the fence. That acute triangle up there. Yeah. Inside the yard. That's grass clippings. It's actually very
>> And behind the gate is leaves >> right on that one inside the gate. It's a very tall pile. So, we were speculating that maybe it was some kind of a compost pile or something as opposed to just quote unquote yard waste. The leaves I think are yard
wasted outside the fence. But but S Sarah, can you tell us what the pile inside the fence is about? >> Yeah, of course. Yeah. So, the the root system for that that large tree um that is tipped away from our house um it kind
of it falls it it goes right there. Um and so that fence was was a bit of a challenge to to place, but that was that was pre-existing kind of the the mounds back there were pre-existing when we bought the house six years ago. The clippings were were definitely new.
you know, we're just kind of um finding a place to compost those, but um open them if that's the preference. Um bounds from the um the roots from that tree. >> Okay. So, based on that, I would say
that there needs to be a condition removing the top layers of the leaves outside the fence and removing most of the pile, the left inside the fence. again down to where it's already disintegrating.
I apologize for stepping on your time. >> No, I just needed clarification with that. Um, no, I'm satisfied with this project. Most of it's outside the 100 foot buffer zone is only deck uh with no roof and uh
some stairs within the jurisdictional area and the erosion control. seems appropriate. So, I'm satisfied. >> Does anybody in the room have any comments, questions? Anybody online have
any comments, questions about this project? >> Yeah, just raise your use the raise hands function reaction button. Seeing none. Okay, my bad. >> If they wanted to have a compost pile, I presume it would be okay to have it in
the other side of the 35 foot line so they could have a compost area near their shed, for example, or does it have to be outside the 100 foot? >> No, you I mean it's it's up to you. I don't mind if people use like a small
area of their property, but a compost pile can't just be a pile that's not contained. It should be within a fence or, you know, compost bin or something like that. >> But to answer your question directly, I would say yes by the shed that's on this side of that slight rise.
>> So I can say if they wanted to have one. Okay. Um, can I have a motion to close the hearing on 152? John Cart. >> I move to close the hearing on 102. John Cart. >> Sorry. >> Walter Talbert seconds that motion.
>> Sticker in favor. >> Walter Talbert in favor. >> In favor in favor. >> Ryan Bow in favor. Okay. This is an RDA. So, can I have >> Yes.
>> Can I have a motion um to issue a negative determination for I move to issue a negative determination for 102 John Carr. >> Walter Tabet seconds that motion.
>> Walter's in favor. >> More in favor. >> Ran in favor. >> You're all set. Thank you. >> All right, Jack. >> Thank you so much. >> You're welcome. Okay. So, next
>> is our first discussion item, which is 259 to 267 Main Street. As I said, we're not going to be taking that up this week, this meeting, so that'll be on a future agenda. And uh the next one, next item would be
the CPA presentation. >> Is somebody here? >> Yep. >> Oh, I didn't know what I was looking for. Great. Okay. the CPA presentation. Can you come up and introduce yourself, please? >> All right. Um, I am now wearing my CPA
representative hat. I am the Conservation Commission representative to the Community Preservation Act committee. >> I'm Sandy Matapia. um pro committee member CPA study committee
at large member we're going to do tonight the slides of a duet and sort of a Q&A presentation along >> excuse me >> yes
>> sometimes it's hard for the audio to pick up people back there so if you raise your voice just to be sure. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Um >> All right. So, next slide, Chuck. And um we will have a request for you at the
end of these slides. Um but Community Preservation Act, most of you were here for my presentation last spring. Um it's a way that we can um raise money through a small property tax fee that goes to
open space which is conservation and recreation, historical preservation and affordable housing. And by um implementing this um CPA program, the state will give us some money if we um
raise money as a town. So it is a way of getting uh uh matching funds from the state. Out of all the 351 towns and cities in two cities in higher than one of them so far have adopted the CPA CPA.
Next slide. >> Let me go back one one slide and just for purposes of continuity here underscore two things in this slide which we're going to pick up on later. One is the search charge uh and the other is the match. So exactly what
would constitute the search charge that would appear on local property tax bills? We'll get to that in a little bit more bill later on. And we'll also talk a little bit about the match. Those kind of together make up the amount of money in a pot that we go to these three
particular subject areas. So, I'm going to introduce the next slide, which is who are we and what have you been doing? Go ahead, Mark. >> Yeah, I I jumped over that introduction on the first slide. >> Um, they produced this the select board created this committee in the spring of
2024. They were hoping that we would be able to like Winchester vote on this in November of 2024, but we didn't get created in time to do a reasonable study before um the deadlines for getting on
that 2024 ballot. So, we're now looking at the November 2026 ballot. There are representatives on this committee from conservation, that's me, recreation, historic preservation, affordable housing, um, a member of FINCOM and a
member of the select board. Plus, Sandy is our ATL large member. And our job was to study whether or not CPA was a good idea and um various ways that we could adopt CPA if we thought that was true
and then to present our findings to the select board. And we have been to the select board once and asked for a time extension because we felt like it wasn't a good idea to try for November 2024, but they gave us an extension to um get
us to 2026. Little add on to that is that at the end of this slide um our sort of our main target is to serve something up to the general electorate um in the statewide ballot
six. But there are series of milestones or steps that this this adoption process needs to go through before we get to that point. And again at a in a later slide we'll detail what those steps are on the schedule for them.
So that's next >> who we are and sort of what we've been doing which is a lot of due diligence trying to get our feet under us uh by studying some of the history in town as well as neighboring communities and
picking up um what are good practice tips uh from the statewide coalition that serves the communities who have adopted this law. Um, so that kind of carries us through to the next slide, which
is more specifically drilling down on each of these subject areas. What types of projects come to mind uh to those folks who um think along these lines? What where the money would be applied?
What projects might uh might be good examples of um benefiting from CPA funding were to become available? And Mer is our lead on this particular subject. >> Okay. So, I talked to you guys um in the
spring about the fact that we could have purchased all those lots on Grove Street that are now enormous houses. We could have used the money to buy the property that's now the parking lot. Um Town Forest could have used some of that CPA
money for um the removal of those dead red pines. Um, in the future we could use some money for upgrades or repairs to Matara cabin, um, improvements to the community garden, improvements to trails and boardwalks, um, and other similar
things that we could do with this money. Um, sometimes there is a state or federal grant that requires a local match and the CPA money could be drawn on for a local match for those kinds of grants.
>> Yeah. One of the one of the things and this is sort of a third uh prong where you raise money uh by sirch charge on local property tax bills that's sort of the primary ingredient of the pot of money u but then it then is goes to
these uh different subject areas and then there's a state mass that's the second one and sort of a third prong which is difficult to find is the last one that Martha mentioned which is in this in this particular matching grants.
And as we'll see in other subject areas, there's other forms of what I call leverage, you might call um sort of turbocharging the basic funds and sort of multiplying them so they become even greater and can
serve greater purpose. So, uh here we are in open space. Next is recreation. take it up. >> Sure. So, um, we could have spent CPA money on Birch Meadow phase one and phase two, which has been going on this
summer. We could spend it on playground repairs. There are a number of tennis courts and basketball courts around town that have been um neglected and are in bad condition and um their maintenance has been pushed back year after year
because other things were more important. Um we could spend it on pickle ball courts which has been a popular item right now. And one thought is that the CPA money could be used to encourage fundraising by some of the
sports booster associations um if they had a way of raising money um to reach a matching goal. sort of like those um public television, you
know, if if you donate, we have $100,000 that you can match that funding. Um so it's one way of encouraging some uh sports boosters organizations to get some more funds donated.
>> Add on there would be that um we did a little bit of research and um tallying up about a half a million dollars over the last um eight or 10 years that have come from booster type organizations.
So those are sort of private funds usually on a project specific basis. But if there was a pot of money, a portion of which was dedicated to recreation, you could then use that pot if you will to incent
funds for a particular project. So again, it's just a way of sort of turbocharging things that might otherwise happen or could be available to start the process. That's recreation. We next go to historic preservation.
[Music] >> And we have a number of buildings in town that would qualify for CPA funds. Um the historic commission would also love some funding for historical markers and for um paying for an arch archavist
to organize their materials. Um and just looking at this picture of the Pleasant Street Center, once recal is built, what happens to the Pleasant Street Center? If there is renovation done to that building, it could come out of CPA funds.
next. And then affordable housing. Um there is a great need for affordable housing in Reading and um a long waiting list for people who want to move into our
existing affordable housing. And this is another place where if we provide funding through the CPA, we can use that for matching funds from state grants and other programs that would help us um
create more affordable housing in town for people who need it. Okay, moving on. Next slide. Okay, how much would we raise, Sandy? Okay, so this slide and the next slide
is filled with a lot of numbers. Um, and try to simplify it for you um and then rely on questions that you might have to to sort of um bring up any of the nuances that you may be interested in.
This slide is were we to adopt this law locally in one form or another, namely at one uh sir charge rate or another, what amount of money might what might might we expect to generate both from the locally raised revenue as well as
the state match? And then if I could toggle um Chuck, if I could toggle just between these two slides, the next one is designed to show um how that kind of breaks out in terms of who's paying
locally um to raise this money and what it would to them on their local tax bill. So, if you go back one um and to start um we're looking um at something on the order of a
million dollars at a 1% search charge. Um it can be a little bit less or a little bit more depending on what that match is. And just to elaborate a little bit more on the match, um you see here two different percentages. One goes back
several years ago when real estate was pretty much transacting at a healthy clip at 39% match. So whatever monies were raised locally, there would be 39% add-on, if you will, from the state. And
then last year 14% reflecting what is a pretty low level of real estate activity because the state match is made up of fees that are collected at the registry based on papers that come in over the counter for real estate transactions,
things like municipal lean certificates and deeds and mortgages and so forth. So each one of those pieces of paper has a fee attached to it. All those fees go into a fund and then at the end of the year that fund is distributed to communities who have adopted the law.
Right now, town of Reading, I shouldn't say the town, but people who buy and sell real estate in the town of Reading pay that money into the registry. None of it comes back here. It goes to other communities. So, the last two lines are designed to give you a snapshot of what
it would have been a few years ago, what it would be last year. And if you kind of look sort of in between here, about a million dollars um or so on a 1% search charge rate. And if you go to the next
slide, what you'll find is we're at 1% taking the average homeowner plus what's not indicated on this slide, which is a $100,000 exemption first portion of the assessed value. Maybe
I'll restate that so it's it's it's clearer. We're looking here only at residential properties. Um and we're taking an average or a median pick your pick your row and saying
the the committee would adopt as is usually the case in exemption for the first $100,000 of assessed value for those properties. So the assessed value minus that $100,000 exemption
um multiplied if you will by the tax rate in the town of Reading gives you what would then be subject to the 1% fee. To simplify it at 1% for the average single family home, we're
talking about $100 a year. uh that that would be the hit if you will to the average homeowner. So round terms which I guess is a very easy um way to to think about and retain the impacts of
this law is that it would raise folks tax average folks tax bill by $100,000. It would generate >> by $100,000 >> excuse me $100 a year. Sorry, I'm going I'm flipping on to my next thought here.
And that would generate about a million dollars to the town to be used for what we just talked about. Um the further thought on this is that that million dollars as we talked about
is sort of based on a low level of real estate activity. So you might expect that that would increase. The other thought which I think is particularly interesting, this is based on a fair amount of research which the chairman of our committee car from finance did is
that the town on average, this is just sort of coincidental expends about a million dollars a year for what our CPA eligible projects. So what we're talking about is
generating a pot of money about the size that we annually spend for projects that would be CPA eligible and we're doing that in a way under CPA where we would get approximately 15 or 20% at minimum
kicker from the state plus all those multiplier effects for matching grants and so forth that we're talking about. So bottom line I think one might um propose is that's a pretty good deal. >> Next slide.
>> Okay. Just on dates and steps and so forth. Uh at the moment um we're going through outreach to uh interested boards and committees such as yourself. Um and uh we will be doing sort of an
informational presentation to town meeting in the fall. Um based on all the input that we received from our outreach, we'll make some decisions on in particular what sir charge rate to propose or recommend to the selectman.
Um serve that up to the select men sometime at the beginning of next year. go to town meeting in the spring to see if the voters will um or town meeting members I should say will endorse that and if so it then moves on to the
statewide election in the fall and then following that assuming adoption by the way those are both by majority vote assuming by assuming adoption there's some follow on steps that take place really on the mechanics of the law
of forming a bylaw which would define the the committee that would administer this law by way of recommendation to town meeting and it's only town only if town meeting approves are funds authorized to be expended for any number
of these purposes. So that's a quick summary um and Martha's going to kind of give you some uh takeaway points or requests. >> Yeah. And just
to be clear, um, a minimum of 10% of the money raised has to go to each of the three categories, open space and recreation, housing, and historical. And then the other 70% can go to any of
those categories. So it could be divided a third, a third, a third, or it can be heavily weighted towards conservation one year and historical another year and housing the third year. >> And how is that decision for the allocation made? >> Um the community preservation committee
recommends it and then town meeting votes on it. >> And you don't have to spend it every year. You can reserve it as well. >> Yeah. Okay. So next slide and last slide. This is the last slide. So the
question is um we would love to have the support vote from the conservation commission to support the recommendation of this um CPA and I don't know if it got on the agenda in such a way that you
guys can vote tonight or we can vote tonight or whether it has to be put on to be voted on in two weeks. Um but the other thing we would like is to have your opinion on should we go for the 1% should we go for 1.5 should we go for
0.5 it's a risk versus benefit um risk versus reward um balance because if we ask for too much and it gets turned down then we get nothing. If we ask for too little we maybe could have gotten more.
Um, so the question is where is the sweet spot of what percentage to ask for? And towns are allowed to go for up to 3% but um we've been advised that um keeping it around $100 per household is
the um way to be more likely to have it pass. So that's why we're looking at the 0.51 or 1.5%. So, and then if you come up with ideas of what you would like to see CPA funds
spent on, um, we're happy to, um, have you report those back, I guess, to me and then I'll take them to the committee. So, is it something that we can vote on tonight or is that something we have to >> It's on discussion items under vote.
>> Says vote. >> So, we could vote. I don't know if anyone was prepared for it. It is on the agenda, but maybe There's some questions also. >> Do you have some questions? >> First question for you Sandy. How are you chosen as the atlarge representative?
>> Select board composed the committee and they defined its mission. Um and so I applied as a volunteer to be the atlarge member. I've got a little background background in environmental laws. I
guess that was the credential that this they may have looking forward of >> and this committee that's going to be deciding on the allocation of the pot of
money is guaranteed equal representation among the different causes how would that committee be comprised >> I'll give it one thought on it which is uh it was scheduled for tonight but I'm
not sure it's going off. uh the bylaw committee. There was going to be a presentation also the bylaw committee by representatives CPA committee and so the bylaw which was indicated in one of the two slides um the after the law is
adopted at a further town meeting a bylaw is proposed for adoption which would establish the committee including its composition and that can be we talked a few communities where that was a
particularly you know highly political exercise >> because it's a fair amount of money that would be at the discretion of the committee to sort of sort through different projects and then recommend to town which ones they think worthy of of
being of funds being used for >> but I'm pretty sure that conservation is guaranteed a spot on that committee >> which is how I got the spot on the study committee Right. So we have this in Arlington and we have the guaranteed
members are conservation, historical commission, recreation department, um I say conservation and someone from the housing. Yeah. >> And then others and so I those might be controversial spots.
>> Um but someone from conservation will is guaranteed a spot just like recreation. That's my understanding. unless things have changed. It's been five years since I've been on our CPA committee. But uh
and I was going to ask a few questions about that because it seems like I heard a couple I don't know if you were finished. >> You were finished. >> I have one more. Go ahead. >> You want me to? Yeah. >> Sorry. I heard you talk about maintenance. I didn't think that was
allowed. Has there been a change to allow maintenance? >> I think what I meant was upgrades. Okay. >> Yeah. There's a there's a distinction between preserve protect personal or real
property from injury um or destruction that kind of stuff. That's kind of like the criteria. This is the uh uh community preservation allowable spendable allowable spending process. Uh
>> that's for acquisition. Yeah, what you just read I think is that personal acquisition. >> No, it goes across all lines. So, they've xed out the ones that that don't apply, but this definitely applies to open space and um and open space is kind of similar to
conservation uh in a way. So, uh but that was my question. Was it what maintenance? >> No, maintenance is is specifically excluded from all the categories of projects, >> right? And by maintenance, is that general maintenance or is a major renovation considered maintenance?
>> Uh there's that's the distinction that's important is that um as I understand it anyway, if you're doing restoration or rehabilitation that that's CPA eligible uh but just you
know sort of routed of a field, you know, they do do every year because for example. >> Sure. And the other question I had is you mentioned that Joe Conahan had looked at some
particular amount of money that's spent each year. >> Yeah. >> And my understanding is CPA is also not allowed to take on uh any project that was on the capital plan. >> Is that is that true or not? We're not allowed to
>> I don't know whether that's true or not. I've never heard that. General did a lot of work and had a lot of discussions. I've never heard anything. that might need to get checked into >> the capital plans that come up as well as the budgets what was what was
approved for funding and not or as the case may be which is where the public >> yeah I think unless things have changed if it's on the so whoever is putting the capital plan to start thinking whether this will be accepted by CPA but if it's
on the plan and the town was supposed to take care of it you can't take it off the plan but you do have an opportunity and should look into that because can't go either way. Um, yeah, material cabin. I think the the
deck would have been an upgrade that would have been paid for. Um, and then, you know, like a maintenance item like some rotted wood. You couldn't have that. >> But doing a restoration, having me coat
and what have you probably would be >> upgrade or to bring it into compliance. The other thing that the material cabin has going forward is a lot of the CPA is available to conservation land that was acquired through state grants and
material cabin was and so was some of our property. So that that you know so some of the land is like you can do stuff on land if it was acquired through a grant but if it wasn't then you can't. Now, I'm talking about when I was on it,
these are things that depending on your committee and how strict they are whether they'll pass or not because one of the big conversations in Arlington was what about invasive aquatic invasive management?
Because is that maintenance or is that a one-time hit? Are you protecting your investment or are you doing yearly maintenance? Arlington landed on that it's acceptable to use CPA money for
that. And so what they ultimately landed on was if you go to the CPA website, they have all the projects that all the towns have agreed to and that's kind of the starting point because those
are assumed to be acceptable. There's a lot of guidance on the administration of the CPA and all these questions that by way of example that you're raising >> have come up before in one or another
town and um the umbrella group sort of statewide is the president coalition, >> right? >> And they do a bangup job um with I mean if you look at their website the data that they have on CPA and all the
sort of suggestions and standards. Um, so it's it's really well supported. Um, but these are the types of things that you run into. They're gray areas, nuances, and you got to understand where
the line is. >> And speaking of support, um, the CPA offers you buy into their system and they will support you. I highly recommend that. They're a lot of help during the first year. Um, and um, I
think you if you've gone through this, you understand that there's some sort of like uh, membership. I'm going to call it a membership, but they they do offer support. So, I wouldn't recommend going it alone. Uh, buy into their system and get their support um,
>> from the CPC coalition. >> CPA coalition. Right. >> Yeah. >> Got it. >> So, >> I do have one other question. I'll come back to you in a second. But um so what was the thinking behind residential owning? >> Oh um
I guess two thoughts were for starters. Uh one is it doesn't make a lot of difference in the numbers because the commercial component of the tax um revenue is relatively small somewhere in my folder. I can give you
that delta if if you're really interested. I think it was it was less than $100,000 per year. Put it that right. I'm pretty sure of that. Um and then secondly is that um
we're trying to navigate a political landscape here. Uh and different people including on the select board um have got different views in terms of who takes an extra burden. The thing that I
think I neglected to mention is that there are in addition to the first 100,000 and as you are now pointing out commercial part of this there are other exemptions that we're going to be will be part of our recommendation which include a long
exemption and the senior's exemption. >> We haven't really pulled the committee yet in terms of where their collective thinking is. Those are all up for decision. >> Is um sorry is multif family residential
included as part of that residential search charge or >> Yes, >> it is. Go to the owner. These these all these fees were assessed to the owner of the property. This was situation.
probably would get reflected somewhere down the line but the case >> any other questions >> so I had one additional question so these CPA funds would they offset what is allocated to for example conservation
commission on an annual basis so the $10,000 or whatever or is this an addition to those funds >> no be we'd have to have a project uh specific ask so the conservation commission would would have done their bare metal project
>> or we could uh um so something like leveraging would be Mlets and Morgan. We got $2.5 million from Mystic River Watershed Association, but we needed we were able to leverage another $500,000
of CPA money and that's what got us the grant from the M. I'm just saying this is an example that didn't happen, but that's how you leverage the money. they like to see outside sources. So, um there was a couple of occasions when we found some uh soils that needed to be
removed out there that CPA would have come in very handy because we had ended up having to go back to town meeting and ask for additional funds. Um provided the timing was correct, we could have gone to the CPA committee. So, they seem
to be oneoff projects in my mind, but by all means, if you guys could, you know, answer Joe's question better than I can, uh, that's that's what I would think. You would come up with a project, a project, you would present it. Uh, if it
meets the criteria, um, they vote it up and down. It's a two-part process in in Arlington where you don't have to put a lot into your presentation. If they accept you, then you have to work on a better presentation. You come back to the committee and they'll decide whether
you, you know, you've made the grade. You go on and they'll um take you through the process and then approve it and then it goes to town meeting. So it's a twopart process. Um >> so in does that CPA request process run
in parallel with the budgeting process? Is there some offset timewise? >> I think it does because it's open right now and so and in our town um the warrant just closed so it's it's kind of same. Um
I I don't you know I don't know enough about it to tell you how you pick what goes on a warrant and how what goes on a CPA committee. It almost seems like our best conservation ideas go to CPA where
we can actually do conservation-minded uh improvements like um like in flood zones we can create storage and uh you know by diverting a river and um creating storage next to it and um
things like that which probably wouldn't get approved. uh historical one was I was surprised at if I'm too you guys don't want to hear you just hit a point but >> can I just the one thing that would
never be approved in town meeting was u we had a historic site and believe it or not the rock wall needed to be uh taken apart and put back together you know just basically a stone wall that was a lot of money and only CPA through the
section that's um a historical resource was were the one which was able to create to get that money because 10% goes in each one of these buckets and they're able to be used. So, um, and believe it or not, from what I've heard,
historical requests are almost the most requests that go through because it's probably a lot of backlog and uh I don't know. So, Sandy, sorry. >> I think going back to your question is that for my mind anyway, technically
they're separate. Whatever's budget allocation is in the ordinary course um is sort of side by side with CPA CPA funded projects in that area.
They're going to come up in front of the same town meeting. So there may well be uh some dynamic between the two. But if you step back from that question, what you look what is being done here is that for areas
that typically don't compete well for money from a budget. What we're doing is you're creating an entirely separate system of of fundraising and and spending for that. And so, um, you know, from a net perspective, I think
you're really well ahead of the game. Whether you can continue to defend, if you will, your normal budgetary allocation, I don't I don't know how you answer that question to look at, you know, other examples, but
Um I mean the whole idea here um is to find a way to support uh I'll call them community improvements that go to kind of quality of life that ordinarily don't get a good shake and they end up
denied or deferred booked or they're always trying to catch up. So those projects for like the conservation commission I guess from our process would those be raised through Chuck to the commission itself to vote on or would it be a general discussion
in a conservation commission hearing uh for ideas for projects that would leverage CPA or how would that be handled? >> Um I think anyone can come up with a project but it needs the conservation commission's vote to bring it forward to at least the CPA committee. you and
private individuals can also access the CPA funds. So you do it on your own also if you wanted to go through the conservation commission have their support. It would take a vote from the conservation. >> So we would have a process defined of how to petition or >> and we would have to have discussion and
open meetings so people could hear what the thinking was. >> Okay. >> So it's not just a vote on it. It would be discussing right liberating. >> Right. So, it's not just a project that shop would come up with for the year. This is something that anyone in town could bring forth to the conservation
commission by a specified date or time or the year. >> I'm not sure about that scenario whether anyone can come to anyone in town that wants to do a project that's conservation. Yeah, they would come to us, but anyone wants to do a project and just go straight to the to the CPA
committee. So >> I mean if somebody had an idea for something to do somewhere in conservation jurisdiction >> that certainly would be a path to bring it here to see if we had interest and what have you. >> I certainly think the path would be
through me. They would contact me >> decide whether it's we want to go forward with it or not and then it would come to the conservation commission >> and and it's to also assess if it's CPA eligible. It's not directly coming from the conservation budget or a capital request.
>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Um just one last point. So u in terms of the town uh meeting vote, the searchcharge rate that is going to be finalized by your group and presented or is it a vote on each options?
>> I think we go to select board and select board puts one of those choices on the warrant. So, we make a recommendation to select board and select board makes a decision on which option they send to the warrant if they choose to send it.
>> Okay. Is that why you're asking us what we think? >> Yeah. Yeah. We're gathering as much information as we can so that we have a um pool of people to take to the select board. We went to the uh street fair and
50 people voted and told us what they thought was the right searchcharge. So we have that collection of data from people we ran into at the street fair. >> So a scientifically selected group. >> Well and all the committees that we're
presenting to and you know etc. So um so I think we have used up a lot of your time. At this point, at this point, >> without doing a vote, do people feel confident you know enough to vote? Do
you have reservations you want to go out go read up on side of this meeting? >> Kind of going through it right now on the Excel sheet involved. >> Okay. >> Handover handover doesn't have anything
listed on there. >> Okay. You you'd like to wait a meeting before we vote? >> I'd like to wait too. >> Same here. >> Or if you want to express >> if if you want us to come back to answer questions, um we're happy to
>> Yeah. >> Okay. At this point, why don't we put it off for just one meeting? The next meeting, we'll vote. So, make sure you do your homework beforehand so when you come in, we can vote. >> Yeah. >> If we're going to uh support this or not. That's that's our vote basically.
We'll be we is a conservation commission as a whole supporting the CPI CPA proposal that they recommend. >> And so and if they have any questions, just reach out to Martha who >> she's get your questions to Martha so um Sandy and M can come back and and answer
those. >> 2002. >> Yeah. and and Reading attempted to pass it the same year that we passed the override to build the high school and it failed by a very narrow margin. >> So, hang on a second. So, open meeting
considerations. If somebody has a question, they send it to you. Does it go just to Martha? Otherwise, it's deliberating, right? Has to go just to Martha. >> They're asking her a CPA question. They can >> It has nothing to do with conservation.
Yeah. Okay. >> Thank you so much. >> Thank you. That was uh that was really good. >> Appreciate it. >> All right, Sandy. I'll see you. >> Okay,
next topic is 32 Harvard Street. >> Chuck, people said they would be here correctly. Yeah, I don't I don't see anyone here for 32 Harvard >> entering the waiting room named Rickles. >> Rickles Rickles. >> Sean Cough, I think it is.
>> No, no. Um, yeah, Ellen's Ellaner's right here. So, she's got she's doing everything to get our attention. So, I'm gonna let her in right now. Sorry about that, Ellen. >> There you go. You have Yeah, there you go. >> Thank you.
>> Hello. Hi. >> So, do you want to start us off by walking us through the pages you would like us to consider? >> Sure. Thank you. I wish I had a nice presentation like that, but I don't. Um,
so three things. The a waiver of the infiltration requirement is one thing we're asking you all to consider. A second is a fence installation in our backyard. And then along with that moving a proposed planting area to
another part of the yard. Um I submitted the infiltrate the waiver of infiltration requirement first. So I guess we can talk about that one. Feel should I just keep going? Feel free to interrupt me. Okay. Um, so originally
you all approved our plan um for downspouts to go into an underground infiltration chamber. We're doing a big construction on our house over the main original footprint except we're adding a 4 foot 4x5 foot
making making the back corner square. So we have added a little bit of square footage to the house and because of that we were required to do something with that rain runoff. Um >> and so what the decision was by this committee was to do an underground
infiltration chamber. So he discussed that a lot with our general contractor. Um he says he can't recommend doing that because he would have to submerge the chamber in water in order to uh install it. So, we sent a video a photo from May
9th and you can see that the water level is so high that there's not enough distance between the bottom of the chamber and the groundwater table. Um, I mean, he also said the cost was $6,000. Um, then we also discussed the option of along the back of the house installing
down spouts and piping that water out under the yard to the edge of the existing wetlands. But he said during the rainy season he was concerned that the water would back up the down spouts because there would be nowhere for it to go. Um and I think
that's true whether or not there are holes in the the pipe. Um and he said he would have to pump water out of the pipes in order to out of the hole the trench in order to install the down spouts. So I feel like we have we've
considered all the options that we could think of and so what I'm requesting is the waiver um not to do the infiltration requirement because I think the all the the chamber or the pipe sitting in the water would impact the efficacy um and
we're only adding the five the 4x5 new area. So, it shouldn't be a significant addition of of rainwater. >> Can I ask if you considered um with your contractor the idea of
directing the runoff into the gravel area under your new addition? >> The gravel area like under we have a screen porch. Is that >> right? >> That doesn't addition whatever you were
building in the back left corner. Um, no. Do you just mean sort of sending the water all there and having it sort of sit under >> in the past in a number of cases is have people
uh dig down where the gravel's going to go. I believe the number is typically 18 in. And you direct the water into that area and then it infiltrates um, you know, through the gravel into the ground. And that way it's not running across
your property on surface water, which what we try to avoid. So that's something that you might talk to your contractor about. >> I think the term for that we use is stone drip trench. Stone drip trench.
>> Okay. Um, yep. I can certainly ask him about that. Would there be any concern with since it's right up next to the house um or you know I guess the downspouts wouldn't be going very far away from the house anyway.
>> Um and I yeah I will learn more about that. I don't know anything about the stone drip trench. >> The uh the drip trenches are often a linear trench underneath an eve or something a roof line where
where it falls down. So, it's typically next to the house anyway. >> Okay. >> So, you're counting on it moving away from the house as much as towards the house. I don't know what the state of your foundation is, anything, but >> Yeah. You Alan, you must have your
foundation in place. Did they have to um uh pump out water while they were excavating? >> Yes. I'm not sure why the the pipe out into the wetlands doesn't work if you added an overflow
uh section and a backflow pretor which is just a flap >> like installing a big chamber area. >> Oh, it's just a pipe a oneway door >> on the same pipe that you're sending out to the wetland. So water can go in one
direction but if it tries to come back it will just shut the gate >> that and then we typically ask for on the down spouts that there's a mechanism on them that allows for if there was backup it would just
it's just a backflow pretor but it it basically if water comes back up it just goes out the down spout towards the bottom. It's it's a it's another section you just install into the down spout. So that would prevent it going up um you know up
to the the gutters. It I think the groundwater is pretty high and that that hole it looked pretty high. I didn't investigate it myself and it sounds like we're getting a lot of comments from the carpenter or the or the contractor who's not like Jack, you know, like an
engineer. So um did um I know that you used meer brim did that was that evaluated um by I can't remember the person. >> Yeah Ian it was Ian Aninsley. Yeah >> have a comment on that who is an engineer.
>> He right and we the last time we spoke about it I think was a few months ago and he did say that he thought that downspouts would move water away from the side of the house and potentially keep the yard drier. Um, I didn't talk to him about the potential of the
downspouts backing up >> or the flap kind of thing that you're talking about. Um, >> it seems like well I don't know what you guys think. >> The backup flow very well. It's going to
prevent the flow from coming down from the roof. >> Well, it goes way out into the wet line. You put it on almost the end >> somewhere along the line. got to get one. >> Well, it goes from one direction.
>> Okay. But then now you've got more flow coming. Where's it going to go? >> Uh on the overflow part that we talked about. >> You're assuming it's going to over over pressure the wetlands flow.
>> No, there's an overflow portion, too. >> There's two two steps. >> Oh, okay. Gotcha. >> Yeah, two steps. I'm not I'm saying >> we're being >> these are these aren't like these are things that we've over the years have
come up. So it's, you know, they've worked elsewhere. I don't know if we're just asking if you considered them. Not saying they're appropriate for your property. You would have to talk to Ian or the contractor that's going to put them in. But um
you know, I I did see the picture and I I sent it out to everyone. the water in the hole was about a foot below the top. So I think when the when the contractor is saying we excavate, you would want that under the frost line so it doesn't
freeze. It's going to be in water anyways. How is this going to work? Uh it's not an easy situation. I mean it's but it does seem easy to say it's not going to work and that's what I'm hearing a lot of it's not going to work.
What what is the implication of putting like a rain barrel but then pumping it to the street? >> Like installing a sump pump either inside or outside to pump the rain barrel water. >> Well, to me a sump pump is below the ground which we can't.
>> So I'm thinking something above the ground. >> Yeah. >> And then pumping it to the street. >> So again, we we're not here to design. That's an interesting idea. I would just like to suggest you could bring these ideas, whatever, back to your contractor and maybe Ian.
>> Yeah. >> To see if any of these things uh are feasible, especially if you could go to Ian because he is an engineer. >> Yeah. It would it would be best to say or to add to that that the commission is
looking for some sort of infiltration and so it would be uh better to not just uh you know decide that these aren't going to work based on you know initial review.
But um the only other thing that you said is and this came up in the meeting is um and the commission made a decision on this and this is what we're going to be doing from here forward and this is what we have been. You are uh your new the new part of your house is above the
garage and this addition. And so we counted both of those as what we wanted infiltrated um even though the garage was there before. >> Right. So we we had come up with that accommodation. So if it ever comes up
again, commission members, they have a very small addition and it was like why should we infiltrate? Well, it's our opportunity to do infiltration is their opportunity because there's already a backhoe there. Shouldn't be too much
more money to just turn around, start digging in a different different section. >> So, so why don't we park that conversation? >> Plus, it works with the MS4 permit, which is something by the town. So, >> do you want to talk to us about your next request?
>> Sure. >> Um, so the fence, we, you may have heard our puppy. We got a new puppy and we're interested in installing a fence in the backyard. And from my understanding from Chuck, we would be able to um the the
area that we would plan for is along the edge of the wetlands or the Yeah, I think it's the tech technically the edge of the wetlands um and along the side of our property. So my one first question is may we do this
and then the second one is the currently approved planting area for the native replanting. If you look sort of in the top left there's a gray area with dots in it. Yes, exactly. That's currently a bunch of rocks and what we
had proposed to do was remove those rocks, put some native plants like I think hibberry bush is one example. it's listed on the plan. Um, and then have some grass in there and then plant native plants along the border of the wetlands.
And my question is, since we're going to be use losing yard space by installing the fence, since it has to be this wacky shape, may we instead turn that top left hand area into the yard and then make the whole
right area behind the fence now native plantings. Um when we were out visiting um in the back corner of your yard there was a hockey net. >> Yes. >> Yes. Where on this plot plan would that
hockey net be? That's like so I can get a sense of the geography >> that kind of Yes. So there's the red angle. Yeah. That's where the hockey net is right now. Yes. >> Okay. So,
it seemed like behind the hockey net there was already a lot of vegetation grown up. >> Yes. So, part of that the green speckled area. Um there's a little part of it in the front that is already natural
vegetation. And then between that and where the fence would start, if you sort of come down on the picture a little bit, that's all currently grass. But it's technically wetlands. We just learned with this house object.
>> Is the purpose of the fence purely for the dog? >> Yes. >> Does that I mean we would install I think privacy fence because we're doing you know uh the the red firm line not
the X's. We would do privacy fence. I think cedar like six foot. Um, so I guess the purpose of that would be to create an area there. We all put nice plants there like a garden. Um, but we
wouldn't have done it if we weren't if we didn't get the dog. Does that answer the question? >> So, is it a big dog? A better question is, is it going to get big? The reason I ask I don't have a problem with dogs at all. I'm asking because we require space
under the fence to allow wildlife to move around and so I'm wondering if you have a small a dog that's going to stay small and might be trying to burrow out. >> That's a great question. Um and I think my understanding was three and a half
inches from the the ground. Um no, he'll be like 60 poundsish. Um and a leggy dog jumper. So, >> okay. >> I'm thinking a taller fence, but um
and also my understanding though was if it's chain link, it can go all the way down to the ground because there's area for wildlife to pass through. Is that >> It depends. The example I've heard us use many times, you think about rabbits,
whether they could, if they got in somehow, could they get out? Um, I guess a small baby rabbit could get out through the holes in the chain link, but um, I think I still would ask for the space underneath so bre rabbit could get
out if he had to. >> Is that true of the other kind of fence we were considering is like black aluminum with the rods which I think are four and a half inches apart. Um, >> well, Elena, you don't need to uh raise the fence all the way around. If you to
accommodate what Brian's saying, you could I mean, so the topography of the ground may create these areas anyways. Um, and then your solid fence may have it. It's, you know,
I guess the Wetlands Protection Act doesn't mind if the turtle or rabbit hops around for a while trying to look for an exit, but um, as long as there's one there to be found. So, the the thing about it is uh I think that your privacy
fence could have that three and a half inches in it. And I'm not sure how much of this other spot is the uh chain length, but if you could let us, you know, know that there's going to be at least two spots in that chain link area that's a little bit higher, um that
would probably help uh with Brian's, uh what Brian's request is. >> Yeah, I'm a big rabbit lover, apparently. And you were saying about the um the vertical black bars that certainly has
plenty of room for a rabbit to get out, but could a turtle get up and over the bottom shelf or would you still need to have three and a half inches for the turtle to get under that horizontal bar? >> Yeah, those would have to be up too. I think the one well there were two
different styles we were considering and one has a horizontal bar and then just empty space that could be three and a half inches above the ground and the other one has um can't remember if it has a horizontal bar or not but the vertical rods sort of touch the ground
um and I can't I mean there are some size turtles I think that could get through there but I guess my point is that I I do think that either one of the aluminum fence styles has significant You know, again, it's like a four and a half width. >> I think the bottom line is, you know,
what we're trying to achieve and why. So, when it comes to picking your fence, just make it so there's some area that wildlife can get out. >> Okay? >> If you happen to trap a big snapping turtle in there, don't worry about it. Don't do it yourself. But, u I don't
know how we get in the first place. Um, but I don't we don't have to design it here and micromanage it, but it just needs to be space for the wildlife. >> Okay. >> Have we already approved the fence? >> No. No. >> That's here. They're here tonight to
prove the fence. >> I will make a motion. >> Not there yet. >> Would a wire in the ground be considered permanent fixture? >> A dog fence. Yeah. below the ground.
>> It's not invasive. >> No, I'm just trying to be Let's listen. >> That's not what they're here. You can suggest it, but that's not what they're here. >> Yeah, that's >> But I wouldn't consider that wouldn't even have gotten to you guys. >> No. >> So, >> because those are usually buried
underground anyway, so it's not not a structure. Anyway, um so the third item you had on your list was maybe you covered it. That was uh plantings and you look into
not have the plantings. >> Just move the plantings. >> So would you move them or have fewer? >> We may have more. I just want the area that's going to be inside the fence now all to be able to be grass and yard for
the kids to play. Exactly. But then we'll make more planting over there. We used to have that be yard and they could run around in it. But since we need to do the fence on the wetlands line and we're losing that yard anyway, I thought, well, let's, you know, fill all that in.
>> As long as you end up with more, I'm happy. the the point is that the up to the first 25 feet we can dictate has to be a vegetated area with a certain size yard we don't impose that so as long as you
end up with appropriate amount of vegetation that's not going to be an issue for us I would say um so that brings us to the question of the fence um so I' I'd like to consider all these three things as one not two three
independent views of it. Um, so the question is, can this just be an administrative administrative change or is it amended plan or is it a new NOIL whatever?
>> If we're considering all three at once, we need to have her come back with the answer from Ian Aninsley and the contractor of what they're going to do instead of underground infiltration system, right? So, I think um
it would be good to continue this to the next meeting, give her a chance to come back with an answer from the engineer, and then we would vote on all these three things together. Unless you're in a big hurry to put the dog fence in soon.
>> If that's the case, we could divide the projects into separate things. I appreciate that. And I guess the two things I'm thinking are yes, I would love to have this fence done as soon as possible, but if there's a possibility
they're going to need to have construction machinery driving in to dig trenches, then we can't have a fence there. So, um, it sounds like
we have to consider all am I thinking about this right? Do we need to consider all three? >> Okay. >> Do we have a precedent putting a fence on 25? >> We don't. >> We have allowed fences in various
>> peace on the >> this is even on the wetland. >> Okay. So, let's try and be accountable to the applicant's needs. So, let's vote on the two we can vote on
and we'll deal with the uh infiltration of the roof runoff whenever we come back with an answer. So, um one condition I would like to have for what we've talked about even so
far is if you could update the plan to show the fence and to be sure that the new planting area is clearly marked. So it'll be there for the future. Just submit to Chuck, we don't have to look at it again, but just so the record is there.
>> So I don't I think that's a good idea, but I think that um typically a fence and a move like this, we would allow what I how I directed the the applicant, which is you can draw on the plan because we see what's going on. We're
just trying to save >> Yeah. >> You know, big expense kind of thing, right? I'm not saying I can see what's going on here. >> As long as we have something in writing that people in the future can go back to when they're doing a coc and saying where's it supposed to be? >> This is part of the file and
I you know Ellen talked to me. I understood it but I I can see how you guys didn't. So I can make some additional notes on this plan and when I put it into the file they'll be there for whoever's >> clear amongst us and Elanor that when
you're looking for the final certificate of compliance whoever it is will be looking at this plan whatever it ends up looking like and trying to determine if the fence is where you said it was going to be. So, >> right. So, the the uh the asbill plan
will pick up the fence and the new garden and we'll just compare it to what we're looking at here on the screen or >> the contractor knows he has to adhere to that. >> Can I reword my question? Sure. Do we have a precedent of putting a fence on
the wetland? We have a precedent of putting the fence on the edge of lawn and allowing that >> on the wetland. >> Edge of lawn. >> Edge of lawn >> which in this case is the wetland lawn. >> Well,
I'm saying the wetland screw the lawn. I'm saying >> so we have so yes there are cases where fences are right next to wetland. >> We have cases in town where we have driveways right next to wetland. We haven't done it on the wet land. >> We have
>> right next to that's my question. >> Thank you. >> This is this is >> Yeah. So, um you know, I would I I think you're right. I mean, you know, some commissioners could get and say, "Hey, look, this is an area that that doesn't
work for them." But consistently in this town, we've tried to accommodate fences. no matter where they go. The rules are don't cut down trees. If you're weaving through the forest, the commission has to look at it. But if it's on existing lawn, most likely you're going to you're
going to get a yes. Unless that lawn is so wet that you know, no, you know, it's like just planted and filled like yesterday. >> Yes. >> So, so it's Yes. >> Sorry. One additional point. So, the the filter sock, the erosion control, we
noticed that it was actually flipped during the state visit. So, it's not up against the property. It's actually close to what your proposed fence line is, which is inside that 25 foot zone. >> Um, was there a change made to where erosion control was placed on the
backyard? >> So, I haven't seen it be flipped. Last time I went, there were stakes, you know, every four feet or something upright. We noticed it wasn't the stakes, but it was actually the sock itself was not up
against the property as depicted in the plan, but it was actually up closer to where the >> went across the back and then it came up towards the house and curved to the side of the property. Whereas in the plan, it showed running across the back and then
curving outwardly to the side. >> So that's why that curved Can you put the plan back up so she can see what we're talking about? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. My understanding is that the sock goes right along that line. >> Okay. Yeah. So, if you look at the back
corner of the house where it says proposed rain barrel, the filter sock is supposed to be like 2 feet away from the house for like five or 10 feet coming in from that proposed rain barrel back
right corner. And it didn't seem to be that close to the house up there. >> Yeah, right there. Those three points on that line. >> So, where was it? I was more >> back closer to where the fence is being proposed.
>> So, the so the erosion control is a moving target. Um, and um, if the contracts I've moved it when it didn't look like it worked for the contractor, they're supposed to create enough space between their project and
the erosion control to to work out there. Sometimes it's moved and there might have been some action over in this corner. As long as there's erosion control in place and it's on the existing lawn and not
crazy downstream or towards the back, I would think it would be fine. Um, it looks like no matter where it is, it's going to hug the project because the addition, we can see where it is right there. And, um, I guess it's
downgradient from the wetlands. So I wouldn't I wouldn't think a move would be bad thing and it doesn't have to stay as per a plan but it does have to protect from erosion >> which it does seem to be the one to know everything.
>> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. On that note >> so do we need to vote or is this just administrative approval or is that what we're voting is whether to make it a minor plan change or administrative approval for the fence and the planting change.
Right. That's your decision. >> Yeah. >> So, we have an order of conditions already. This will be added to it and picked up at the uh as built plans section. Um and this plan will be part of uh part of the COC um application.
>> The the decision rests on whether or not the change is significant to the interest of the act the wetlands. So, they're adding fence. Um they're having the same or more
plantings just in a different area and we have we're not deciding yet on the infiltration. Those two things, my opinion would be that they're insignificant to the interests of the act. So I would be okay with it being administrative approval,
>> especially if we have an updated plan. You >> ready to make the motion? Do you want to make this motion? Make a motion to administer the pool or make a motion. >> Make a motion that that this that to authorize Chuck to make the decision on
his own. >> He's he's administrator. >> You can mention the two items. >> Override that motion to allow the fence as long as it has that access for your turtles and squirrels to easily pass through and out.
>> As well as a motion to to allow her to change her planting plan from the initial spot to behind the fence. >> Yeah. As per this plan, I would just reference this. >> Yeah. >> And the motion would then be
that we would allow that as a minor plan change. That's one motion you could make. Or we would allow it as administrative approval by Chuck and take your pick. >> I'll make a motion to have a minor u
>> plan change >> plan change you're shaking your head >> I I I mean my opinion is is an administrative decision >> okay I would make >> so you want to withdraw >> I want to withdraw my motion >> and make the motion that it's an administrative decision
>> yeah so the the point just to you know I don't expect to go through this bunch of times we get a lot of smart people here but um we have a piece of paper that permit we don't need an additional permit if I just tell them and review it as part of my normal review on all these properties. It
should be fine. So, administratively, this being approved seems to be the best way to to go. >> That's sort of the lowest level. >> Minor plan changes the >> Oh, yeah. It's confusing. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I just appreciate jumping and making a motion. Anybody want
>> I'll second his motion for administrative approval. Okay, this is for the fence and the plantings. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Oh, it's in favor. >> Michelle in favor. >> Rick in favor. >> Martha Moore in favor.
>> Rainbow is in favor. >> Okay. Thank you. Sorry for dragging this out. >> Thank you very much. I'll see you in two weeks. >> Sounds good. Hi. >> Who who went to uh 15 >> Carriage Lane?
>> We did. >> You and Brian. >> Oh, Walter, you have to tell us. Is this your turn to >> Walter? Go ahead. I have to remember what I was a beautiful place. Um
>> lots of plantings above and beyond what was called for. It's the only Not negative. The only difference was there was a spruce in the far right hand corner that was supposed to be planted, but they have so many other plants that
were there. I think it more than easily offsets. There was crush stone around the pool which was required. Um the only question was along the looking at the house the left side fence on the other
people's property it was like six foot cleared which was a little bit bizarre, but uh no like the house looks great. I think they've done a good job of findings. Nothing looked like it was dying. Looked like it was all
>> thriving. Did you had an opportunity to talk to the homeowner? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Uh so this was just a request for determination of applicability for a deck and offense. Was that it? Deck and
offense. And um I think the fence might have existed already. I think it was the swimming pool and the deck >> there. Yeah, the above ground pool and the deck. There you go. And so there was a requirement for these plantings and um I think it's Kate had dama asked me to
um have the commission go out there and uh review and we usually don't review determinations of applicability when they're finished um as a commission but uh this time it seemed important and uh so I'm glad that that I would only asked
if you talked to the homeowner to try to understand what they wanted >> remain from I'll I'll reach out tomorrow and just say the commission agrees that the project's complete and uh you've done a great job. >> So my summary would be they have done a
great job. The plantings are not exactly what was in the planting plan but they have reasonable substitutions and the overall uh scenario it's fine. It's in good shape. Most of the plants are very healthy.
>> Yeah. One example of a substitution is the white spruce is not missing. It's just a river birch instead. >> So there is a tree there. It's just not the tree that was on the original plant. >> And they have some additional um glabra
which is that um ink berry holly I think. >> Okay. >> Um and we did notice they've put in a couple of non-native species. There's something that seems to be a lilac in there. So, um it's in addition to all the native plantings they did put in,
there's also a trampoline um in more or less the uh 25 foot zone. So, I would say when the kids have outgrown the trampoline, they should move the trampoline and or get rid of the trampoline and not have it in the
>> condition. That's an idea. >> Yeah. just when he's talking to them, you know, trampolines don't really belong in CNVs. >> So that's all my comments on it. >> Okay. >> Nothing else required there.
>> All right. So now the next topic is um our policy on accepting land donations. Um, so the reason this came up is that we recently
um accepted a land donation near the high school. What's that street again? >> It's hillside. >> Yeah. Sorry. And >> starts with a W. >> I thought it was
>> side goes down the hill. This is around Waverly. >> Waverly. Okay, >> here we go. >> So, the bottom line is uh we accepted it quite a while ago. It was held up because it turns out there was a shed
that would that was actually on what would become our new property. And so, that had to be moved first. That has finally been moved at which point we were moving forward with accepting the property. um verbally that it happened, although it hasn't been registered or
anything yet. And then a windstorm happened and some trees fell uh from that property onto the donator's property. Um and the donator uh would like the town to take care of
those trees. >> It it actually didn't happen that way. They >> But no, I just want to make sure that I do want to make it sound like the person that was living next to so this this person that was living next to house
originally had the shed property only called up and inquired. She said, "Look, a tree fell on our property from what she believes had been land that was supposed to be donated to the town." and she wondered if it was that had happened yet or if it was something that she
needed to take care of. And I said, I believe that that has happened. Um, but to reach out to the forestry department and I reached out to the forestry department myself and just let them know that this was coming and let them know
that this was a newly acquired piece of property. And I think Brian can take it from there. >> All right. So at that point the free warden uh raised the question as to
um in the future. uh he felt that he should have been notified and had some sort of input onto our accepting the property or not based on the condition of the trees
and hence what work might be incumbent on him in the future for the status of the trees. Um, and so we decided that we would write a letter to the town
capturing our thinking, our position on this. That's the letter, the draft letter that Chuck sent around to the commission for review. And that's what we're here to either amend or vote on or what have you. But to summarize our
position, there's like four key points. The first is as a precedent, we always try to accept land that's donated uh being donated. They're not making anymore. you
know, reading has less and less open space available and it's incumbent on us to uh acquire at least an interest in the land if not the land itself uh to protect protect it, preserve it and what
have you. uh this this actually if you read section uh HC have you have done that it's relatively short although it's tiny print but basically that's uh where the establishment of conservation commissions come from in the state law
uh it says if a town establishes a conservation commission here's the uh powers and authorities and and what the point of it is and one of the things it emphasizes is um acquiring and preserving natural resources.
Uh in there it also says that if we have a plan as much as possible it should align with the town's master plan. You look at the town's master plan the second bullet in the list of themes for
their vision is preserve and protect open space and natural resources. So again, it's in line with the town master plan as well. Um the next thing is that um
going by president, we have never had to uh reach out to another department like that to get approval. Yes. When we accept land, it's at the approval of the select board. It's not at the approval of uh forestry or anybody else. So this
is asking to establish a new president for no reason. Um, additionally, and I just learned this myself a little while ago, back when the town manager was Bob Lashure,
he actually instituted an annual uh amount, $7,000 to go against the um forestry division's budget to cover conservation uh tree related expenses.
uh that's never been uh we've never heard anything otherwise. So we're going under the understanding that that money is still being allocated and yes I recognize that money that's not used doesn't roll over to the following year. At the same time we
haven't had a need to uh involve the tree warden very much in our tree problems recently. So, I'm sure that money wasn't given back, so it was spent for whatever his needs are. I have a problem with that. But, you know, at
this point, our accepting a donation can't be tied to a different department's labor situation has to be whatever the goals and purposes we have. >> Why is the tree warden involved in this?
It's not on public ways. It's not on public land. >> Because it it fell from conser fell from what becomes conservation land and the tree warden handles conservation land uh to a certain extent
>> there is a tree removal policy if somebody's if a tree falls from conservation land onto private property we cut off the part on private property and take it away so we're not impacting the private property with our tree >> and what's on the conservation land
stays in there >> so conservation's considered to be public grounds. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. It is public under different jurisdiction the responsibilities of the tree >> board.
>> Oh yeah. That came up and when that came up and was pointed out to the tree warden and that's when the bottle outure added the money to his his tree account. I think we were using or requesting some trees a lot during that time. I don't think we've requested
anything in the last couple of years. A lot of stuff comes from trails committee. There's a lot of requests there, but it's not in fossilation and it's really not the same bucket. Trails is its own group. They have their own money. They have their own requests and
I think how DPW handles them is you know different from how they handle the conservation commission. uh this you know there wasn't the money was allocated for the understanding
I believe that um this may have been missed and oh yeah you have to take care of conservation land also and so that's why the money was put in there um like I said many
times I asked Bob if I could be in charge of that money and um manage, you know, our land and and uh it went to it went to uh >> Mike Hannerford, but that question did come up. I one more thing right here.
We we received this piece of land. This was Zohabil Street. We received this piece of land from the owner that bought Zero Habil Street. This was a donation to the conservation commission. This is a big piece of property and I asked the
DPW on this one before we get it. Do you want to review it? I didn't ask Mike Hannerford. I didn't ask the forestry department. I asked Jane uh Canella and uh she said no. She said that wasn't how they do how they do it. And so it's
really never come up since then. So uh the conservation commission got all this all this land here and it didn't even come up. So, >> so, so given that context, what thoughts, if any, do you have on
the letter that was sent around to you folks? >> So, really the intent of the letter is to ensure that the conservation commission and the select board only has jurisdiction. It's kind of like define define our
>> regulations and what our procedures are. >> Exactly. It's our it's our policy when it comes to accepting proposed land donations. the the one condition that's been placed
on us recently by town council is the one that we have to get a piece of property that's going to be donated. You have to get it surveyed ahead of time. All right. So that's a new restriction that was put on by the town by the town
council. But that's the only requirement there is above and beyond approval from the select board. So, we would accept land without without doing a survey or with doing a survey. >> We have to do a survey. >> You would do a survey. And what does the survey contain?
>> It tells exactly where the boundaries are. >> The boundaries are avoid any future boundary disputes. >> Does it mark which trees are on that property by any chance like similar to what we see with property? >> I don't think I don't think they st it out even. I I don't know. Not a
requirement. >> It's a boundary survey. >> Yeah. I remember we had that done for the property that was donated on >> Sand. >> We had it done for >> Waverly. Were there any earlier than that or >> No, it was new at that point.
>> I think Sam was the first one. That's where she is. >> And through that survey, they they identified the shed that was on um this piece of property that was going to be on conservation land. Um, and it's just
easier to know these things in advance. And so that's why the survey >> and so we didn't have any issue about surveying the tree condition of the piece of property that was donated at Sandborn.
>> No, we received that. >> There has never been precedent for uh survey and status of trees on land to be donated. So if like hypothetically if this wasn't a shed but maybe a detached
unit that was on the property where people would be living in it and that tree fell on that detached unit on someone's private property from public land. But we accepted that public land as a land donation or trust previously like two years prior. We would have no
ability or would the town be held accountable for that tree falling on someone's unit. But like two years prior that tree was also probably in poor condition. Would have already damaged that property. Like I'm just trying to think of
>> hypotheticals. >> Well, that's fair. So this is this this crushed a >> reality reality. You said it could have been >> crush a shed. >> It didn't crush a shed. >> Crushed nothing. >> This the survey the survey turned up that there was a shed. Hence it had to
be moved. >> Okay. Got it. The only issue here is a tree fell from conservation property onto private property. >> The policy says that the town will take care of the piece that's on the private property,
>> leaving the remnant on conservation land where it felt. That's not our Well, that is a policy we agree to, but I think the tree warden, you know, how he treats the trees that are on the conservation
land or public land and their encroachment onto private land is is his decisions. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But we worked that whole policy out back when I was first on the commission. So, we're talking 2020 or so. Mhm.
>> The whole question of if the tree is on private property and falls onto conservation land, >> as far as I know, one tree fell >> and they, according to the policy, no one informed me of what actually happened out there. Um,
according to the policy, they cut it at the property line, took away what was on the private property and cleaned that up and left uh left the rest on conservation land. >> And this is that waiver that you were talking about. >> That's that waverly. That's what I would have expected to happen
>> based on our policy. >> Yeah. And the previous time that policy had to be enacted was 2020 when we actually tailed down the policy. >> No, no, it's used all the time. It's pretty it's pretty clear. Mike
understands where he's he's at and he understands where I'm at and we we reach out to each other when needed. Uh it's it's a pretty clear policy. >> Okay. So, he's done a number of trees along the way that I just never heard about because it never was an issue. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> That's an automatic response.
>> Yeah. I mean there it's a very active uh um forestry department and when it comes into conservation area they'll reach out to me or they'll follow that policy. >> So this is just clarifying
what our policy is on accepting donations doesn't change the tree policy when I order it. >> Understood. >> So >> um and you're looking for our input on this.
>> Yeah. I mean, do you want to change any words? Do you want to bless it as it is? You wanna bring it here and start a bonfire? >> Um, I I would like to u possibly be the uh devil's advocate here and say
I think it might be courteous of us to notify the forestry department when we are planning to accept a donation. So they're aware of it, but I don't think they should be able to stop us from doing >> say we notified them. I'm doing
hypothetical. >> Say we notified them and somebody went inspected and had push back. Then what? >> I mean our goal is if there's land available, you want it.
Um maybe they would know that there are trees they should trim or cut down that are hazard trees that are now our responsibility. I'm not saying we would let them tell us we
can't take the donation, but maybe they would have recognized this tree as having a giant rotten spot at the bottom and it might be better to get rid of this hazardous tree before it fell on somebody's yard rather than
liability. >> It does >> maybe. >> Yeah. Um, >> just a suggestion. You don't have to listen to me, but you know, you asked opinion. That's what I would say is it might be courteous to let the forestry
department know. >> Did you read the letter >> doing that? >> No. >> Yeah, because there's a section in there that mentions working with the uh forestry department. >> Okay, good. Then I'm happy. >> I don't remember when that came out. I
don't remember. I think the whole point is like we'll work with the forestry department, but I think the conservation commission is really worried about picking up land and also creating space around any wetlands to give it additional protection.
Now, if the select board said no, you know, what can we do about it? But, um, I don't think we should get I mean, my personal thought is that It just, you know, I don't know. I my
personal thought would be we really haven't got too much land for this to really make a lot of a big difference over the many many many years of the wetlands protection act being around. >> Although I will point out we are now over 65 pieces of property and almost
thousand acres. That's that's not nothing. Who's coming? >> So, what's Yeah, I just want to get keep going with this meeting because uh there wasn't really much on the agenda. We're still here.
>> So, I'd like to um vote to have Chuck send this letter. If I could have a motion to that effect, that would be helpful. Oh, who am I sending it to? >> Yeah. >> Is it from
>> It's from Right. >> So, the two um >> Yeah, I think you would think the town manager and the site board, right? >> Yeah. I mean, I can't hear any any other place to do it. >> Yeah. So, that's what I'll do.
Yeah, that's it. >> Well, town manager includes the assistant town manager. >> I don't No, I wasn't cutting anybody out with it. I was just saying not >> I'll uh review it
and if I have any comments, I'll send back to you, but we have permission to send it out from the commission. >> Yes. >> Does that need a vote? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay. I move that you send the letter.
>> Walter seconds that motion. >> He said in favor just >> in favor in favor. Okay. Next item. Violation notices. The only one here we have here is 445 Pearl Street. Martha
read us in. >> Okay, we went to check out the progress that Mike Rivers has been making at um reconstructing the stream on 445 Pearl Street. And the bank
closest to his house he has made some good progress on. But in the and he that bank on the southern side of the stream, the half of that bank that's closest to the
house has been shaped, seated, loaned, has quar at the bottom and riverstone at the bottom of the street >> and it's in the the correct position. >> Seems to be pretty good. >> Okay.
>> Um on the opposite side of the stream the bank has been carved back to be the right height but the lom and the seating has not happened but there's a quarong at the bottom on that side however as you move from the
house toward the street there's an enormous pile of dirt filling the valley that is the stream bed um so that all the dirt that was carved off
the far banks or the downstream banks seems to have been piled up in the stream bed completely blocking the stream. And if you look upstream toward the street from there, there's a depression at the bottom of the culvert
that clearly had water in it at some point. Um, but there's no place for the water to go as it comes out of that culvert because it's hitting a 4 foot wide, six foot tall dam.
So, he has work to be done to complete this project. And um the bar logs at the bottom are fairly far north. So, that stream is going to have
to curve to get to the culvert from where the coral log and gravel bed are at the moment. Anybody else have more information? >> While we're there, a neighbor came over and said that he'd been told that
Mr. Rivers planned on trucking out much of that material that's forming the obstacle. >> I knew we had heard that from somewhere. I forgot it was the next door neighbor. Um
yeah, it's tough. The part that he's done, he has shaped it um according to the plan. I mean, I didn't measure the slopes, but they looked to be the one and a half to one and the two one that
the plan calls out. Yes, there's stuff to fill in on the far side, the north side. The question The issue is when is he going to get to the rest of it? And
I will say I had no idea that putting in a blockage was part of the approach for it. I'm not a construction engineer. I do not know. I did not expect that. Um perhaps it had to be done to keep the water out to allow him
to do the obstructing of the more downstream part of it. I just don't have that expertise, but I was surprised. >> Is he could he be excavating from that dam like to reach the opposite side without going on the neighbor's property
by any chance? >> Our understanding was he rented some piece of equipment that had a long enough reach that he did it from the south side >> the southside bank. >> I don't know that I would drive out onto
just looking at that dam. was pretty firmly packed in. I thought it was actually the existing ground. You have more experience with it, but from what I saw. >> So, um, he also had at least reconditioned the section on the north side between
the dam and the culvert because it was loom and vinka ground cover matching the ground cover that was there already. So again, I'm not the engineer in this either, but it seems like he's about 20% done with the project.
>> Yeah. >> And couple of big rectang rectangular prisms >> of granite on the far slope, >> the northern slope closer to the culvert, which I don't recall seeing there before. No, I was thinking that
that might be intended to deflect current from undercutting the bank, but I also don't remember those being there originally. They were kind of halfhazard. So, at this point, I think he has to get the work done. He's get that
obstacle out of the way as soon as possible. The model should be interesting. Yeah, I am somebody. >> Yeah. So, if uh there's a problem, call me. We got to get the DPW involved.
They should have been involved last Monday or whenever you saw this obstruction, but maybe it's been fixed by by now. I haven't been told about this. I'm hearing it now, but you know, that's going to back up up
upstream. So we would if he's not there to fix it have to get the DPPW involved. So okay notes minutes for Chuck they skipped over your
administrative report. So administrator report um so the MBT uh material cabin so we had a we had a uh staff meeting on material cabin and we reviewed uh the engineers report on the code um becoming getting the cabin back
into code compliance. We have made comments on um made comments on that sheet. There was there was um several options. Um some of
them were further away than others, but the ones that we could probably attain quickly or quick enough was seems to be an occupancy of seven uh 20 people. Um, and so repairs
have to happen, things have to be upgraded. And we're going through that process now to find out what's going on and uh, who's going to take that responsibility and and how it's going to happen. And there is an option that some of these things can be done through a
volunteer effort. um you know so uh under review and um there's the need for a uh what seemed to be a slop sink and a bubbler and um even
though it has a sink and a kitchenet that's not considered in this situation uh you know qualified to get a glass of water out of uh under the rules uh which is mainly ly with our building commissioner who understands those
rules. So, we have options for a bubbler. Um, you know, like a normal one like you would see here, or you can just get like one of those pull and spring situations, standalone unit that he said that works also. Uh, and the slop sink is just where would that go?
>> And would 20 um handle most all of the rentals we typically do? >> No. >> How many would it cover? I think it would cover a lot of the birthday parties and uh functions that uh recreation does. Um
might be might be close on some of the recreation ones like when they do like a um like a Lego situation or cooking situation. I think they're well attended. Um it won't cover the switch river watershed association. It won't cover Tus University. These are the
problems that are coming up in the in the land summit that we do. it wouldn't cover that either. So, um I think that the the the thought uh and you know, thanks to Matt and Jane, thought is now is like what's the low hanging fruit?
What can we do to get it open quickly and then look at next steps from there. Um, so looks like a capacity of 30 uh is the next step up some somewhere in that area and that would probably be
better for for the um historical use of the cabin. >> You have a rough sense of what that is for a step financially. >> That first step financially I do not. >> What was the previous capacity?
So the previous capacity and this is u yeah the previous capacity was set I had walked through the uh with the building with the building inspector back in the day when I first got here probably 2013 um
and we came up with a number like 30 to 40 and I think it's on the website right now whatever it says this was what we came up with um the building inspector doesn't remember that and there was no notes So that's that doesn't matter. So
>> and and we had been going with that. So we had been going with you know we've never had a huge group there. It's never come up and so we were very comfortable accepting you know 25 30 people
>> um for whatever their functions were and and those don't usually come up much either. Most functions are a birthday party of about 12 children, five to six adults. >> What What about the use of the garage
for trails uh storage wise? Any impact from the initial work as to whether or not trails would still be able to use that garage for >> Well, we'll all still this the cabin and the garage are all still usable. We just have to fix some up first. And so it
looks like the cabin there's a couple questions um that oddly enough the garage wasn't in the report but our building commissioner had some questions and he had he sent those off and we're waiting for a reply. It looks like the
garage would need a fire rated ceiling, which is just another either fix the holes that exist there now or 5/8 sheetrock on the ceiling and and not you know someone said that um the
problems or the repairs aren't uh you know impossible to do. They're they're reasonable. So, but you only get to that level 20, right? So, but for the trails committee, they would be able to use their garage. They don't go in there and do anything except walk in, grab stuff,
and leave. It's not like it's not like a shop. >> So, but that's not how they do things. You What I found out in this process is you have to um the code that they're going
to use as if they're in there. So, we have to protect it as as if they're using it as a shop or or using it as a more of a fulltime situation, not just going in and grabbing something and leaving. And the same thing with the school was a problem. They said they were only going to go in and use the
bathrooms, but no, you have to you have to think about it as all year and you have to think about it as all of them there at once. So, uh I think we're on the right track. Um and uh I I believe we'll probably have
another meeting next week at some time or or the early following week and then have um some real information for the commission. When you say volunteers could do much of at least the first tier of work,
is that volunteers written to next summer and then >> No, that's next step people or >> No, that's that's people want to want to lend in lend a hand. That's me and whoever I can have help. So, some of the stuff on the inside would be pulling
down the paneling because that's not fire rated. And then those holes need to be patched and spackled and paint those walls. Wherever those panelings are, there's some door knobs that are just knobs. Those have to be lever handles. Those can be replaced. Those are
volunteer work. We're not we're trying to spend the money on the things people can't just go ahead and do. Um there was is there molding there? That's a problem. Do we need to remove that molding? So is there talk about where
>> money might come from to do the things that people volunteer? >> We want to find out what we're talking about right now. >> So what's the process for getting the financial estimate? >> So this company would be able to give us
an estimate on it. I don't think it would be realistic because I think they wouldn't factor in volunteers could do some stuff. But if they itemize it, it would be handy. Um, again, it's the slop sync, it's the bubbler, it's
the access path between the entrance. There's some grading issues in there that we don't know what that meant. It was kind of vague. And >> is this kind of work that facilities could do?
>> I'm not sure. All those decisions are uh up to others, you know. you know, um I offered what I was able to do is is identify a few things and say, "I think I can get volunteers to help me with this." And so, um I that's not going to
open the cabin, but that's going to at least take that amount of money off. You know, we have to pay prevailing rate wage and and all that. So, this is going to be at least cheap for some of that stuff there. >> Okay. What else you got?
>> Yeah. Um NBTA. So, I received the notice of intent for the MBTA and it came in today uh first electronically and we got that up uh on the website quickly and alerted Matt,
Jane, and Andrew McNichol that it was here. I believe um um Matt reached out to the group of abutters and let them know and I know that one of them came in for a paper
copy and uh I was happy to provide that. So that's in there will be a site visit coming up uh on the 6th and our meeting is on the 8th. So at nine o'clock on the 6, we'll be meeting by Bind Street in that parking
lot and doing the same walk we did the last time for you is not here. We're going to walk way up to >> Okay. So let's >> let's nail down our attending attendance for that meeting plus the hats.
I believe Joe, you will be there and you have laid. Walker will be there and needs you. I will be there and I need a hat. Martha will be there and needs a hat. These two gentlemen will be there. One hat is needed. >> Game time decision.
>> I know. Um and Sherro cannot be there. And she doesn't need a hat. >> So how what does that come to? Four hats and six >> six attendees and four hats. >> Four hats. So we need two more hats. And that's what >> why two more hats?
>> Six attendees and four hats is what we have. So, I need four hats. >> People don't need hats. They already have hats. Four people need hats. >> Need hats. Okay. >> I see what you Yes. >> This was at zeroine street. So, you're
all the way down near the station. You started and walked up. >> We parked in the park in the parking lot uh to the right of Wurn Street along the track. >> And Chuck, >> it was always impossible for me to my
heart when I was working. I had a order one special. I have a 3XL head. >> I I'm not >> there's nothing in it, but that's what I >> Wait a minute. >> So, you want me to make a special request?
>> Yes. Otherwise, you know, the little tightener inside, I always had to loosen it up. So, it was worthless. What? It's not there.
>> Okay. Noted. Um, so that you said that's 9:00 on the 6th of October. >> Yeah. So, um, that brings up my next
question. And there's there's three site visit that we would have done that day. Um so we want to go and take this walk and then we want to go to the depot and look at the area where the train usually stops just to
understand like what happens in 600 feet. You know I think we can get that along the depot area and not you know where people commonly walk. So, it's okay for us to be there and just I'm looking for oil drips, but I wanted everyone to go
there. So, we're going to go to two places that day. Um, Small Lane is on our agenda at the next meeting. And, um, I was looking for this address and I haven't found it yet. And there's
another one also. Um that's uh on let me get the street before I guess start guessing Dustin Road that's off Loville Street heading out to the highway from the town hall. So, um, we have 24 Dustin, which is a
new house, tear down, new house, and we have zero small lane. And zero small lane is probably not going to be one meeting, but a lot of commissions haven't been there. >> I think probably most haven't.
>> So, it might be something where you want to make sure that everyone can go. So, maybe maybe we're talking Saturday or something like that. So since we can't go Monday the 6th which is a typical day um is there any day that week any
morning that week that you could go on a site visit or two >> me just go to work >> okay but the six could take a while >> I can do my
>> yeah because but but we're meeting walking out the lane, walking back and then going look at the station. Even if you skip the station, >> you can skip the station, get there >> on your own. You know, >> I was going to suggest >> one last thought. And they do want us to
stay together. It's not like if you went out, you could head back on your own because, you know, they'll stop traffic for a while, but they want us to stay together. >> That's what I was wondering. We get so close to Willow Street. Could we park a
car at Willow Street? >> Just pop out >> and um No. And and like if two of us drove to Willow Street, left a car, drove around to the other end, then when we walked down to Willow Street, we could all just climb in that
car at Willow Street and drive back and not have to walk both lengths of the track. I remember it seemed like you didn't get much out of the walking back in the snow on our site visit last time. >> The good news, we were walking with the wind on the way back.
>> My vehicle at the house. So, >> can I tell you that I walked up Mount Washington or I hiked Mount Washington with my sister and we got to the top. She was done. She's like, "I'm taking the train down." And she she goes,
looking at me like, "Are you coming?" I'm like, "There's no way I'm not walking back down again because I'm going to have to do this whole thing again if I don't walk back up and walk all the way back down again. So, I'm not getting in the car at Willow
Street." >> Good. >> You don't have to. >> There would have been room for you anyway. >> Yeah. Okay. But but does the we all have to stay together? >> I don't know. Well, let me ask. >> Okay. >> I >> could some of us bail at Willow Street
and come back not on foot. That's my question. >> Yeah, maybe they they could get a an accommodation of those. >> I don't even know what those are called, but one of those things. >> The hand cart.
I will talk about Willow Street. Um, you know, all joking aside, but uh I I'm sure that's not an easy Yes. But I'll I'll check. >> Yeah. The only good news is those people would be off the line sooner. So, they
wouldn't be blocking the opening line, but we wouldn't have escorts. >> Yes, that that is the concern. No, the escar have to walk you up to it, too. They're gonna have to walk you all the way up to Willow Street. >> Well, they have to ride in our car, though. They can walk back. >> Okay.
>> Just a question. You know, that's when we were out there last time, it seemed like >> we walked >> 90% of the way to Willow Street and then had to walk all the way back. So, as far as picking a date for the last two
visits that week, um, could anybody make it Wednesday morning before our meeting? >> The same day as the meeting. >> Same day as the meeting. >> Yes. >> I think
108, right? Yes. You're going to go to Small Lane on the same day as a meeting. >> I'm not really concerned about you two going to Small Lane. Have you been there before, Walter? >> These three should get together and go
there on a weekend. >> I mean, I've already done the walk for the train. So, >> yeah. But have you been to Small Lane? >> No, I have not. >> I can meet you also on a weekend and south to fourth. Would that work? >> I'm in Delaware.
>> Just commute. Um, are you there all weekend? >> Yeah. >> Well, as you said, it's not going to be a one meet meeting hearing. >> Does the following weekend work for you?
>> I'm gone like, four weekends in a row. >> Okay. So, >> we should plan >> not to have you there. >> Yeah, just plan on me not being there. I'll try to get the best. What about you two, Rick and Joe? Could you do it on the 4th
>> after 10? >> I got soccer. So 8:30. >> What time? >> 8:30. >> I thought you said 8:30. Well, I guess. >> No, I can't make it at 8:30. I said I'm free after >> What about Sunday afternoon the 5th?
>> What time are you at? What time you was at? >> I said after 10 10 a.m. on Saturday. >> 10. >> Yeah. >> 10. >> Okay. So, I'll be there with you >> whether you like it or not. Um and we'll
do small lane and then whatever the other one he said. >> Dustin. >> Dustin. >> You can. >> Okay. >> I'll be around. >> Yeah. We just we hold the phone out. >> Show me. At least I'll have an idea. Do you see this? Okay. So, I'll send out a
a text or whatever saying for the three of us, Saturday the 4th at 10:00 a.m. Small lane. You know what lane is? Okay. Um >> Yeah. It's >> off child street, >> right? And so it's a dead end. It's a
culde-sac. Say just parked along the u the road to the on the right hand side. That's easy. Plenty of parking. No concerns about traffic. I could walk that through the work. >> So, I'm not going to be available Saturday the 4th and I want to go see
Dustin Road and we won't be seeing Dustin Road on the 6th. >> So, I will go see Dustin Road some other time. >> That's what we're doing. >> That's my question. Are we doing Dustin Road on the 8th? We had agreed to that.
>> I asked him and we went off to >> Walter and I could do Dustin Road on the 8th. >> Okay. What time you want to do that? >> If you and I are going to the two of us. >> I don't know if anybody else is going to
Dustin Road, but you and I could go. >> Well, but that's also small. 108 was dusted at small. >> Okay, I can do both of those on 108 >> because you've been to small and definitely Martha's been to small
multiple times, >> right? >> So, you only have to go to Dustin because that's the only new one for you for you two. >> You want to go to small for old time sake be like always go small enough. Okay. >> Can we do 9:00 a.m. on the 8th?
>> Sure. So, you're all set. We're all set. your picture and we're all set for MBTA on >> 24. Uh before we go to the next item, I didn't get this on the agenda, but we had talked about it. Um that we're going
to do two things. We want to appoint Joe or discuss Joe as being our liaison for the MBTA process. And so that means that Joe will be uh keeping himself up to date. He'll go to
as many meetings as he can big responsibility and they will report back to the conservation commission. You know, here we are having the permit. Most of the meetings are right here with us anyways. But there might be something else like a select board meeting which I
think is being planned. Now, just to talk about it, would we expect Joe to tell us what the Abutters group is planning? I would think not, unless they wanted to express it publicly. We don't
not looking for inside baseball. >> Yeah. I mean, I I would assume it's whatever shared during public meeting, >> something like that. >> So, for example, like >> I just wanted it on the record that we're not trying to insider a trading. That's the only analogy I can think of. >> Correct.
>> Not doing that. >> It would be the sentiment that's shared by the public during those meetings. >> You hear something good that makes sense. Bring it back to us. All right. >> No, no. I mean like something we haven't thought of. You know, I'm not surprised.
>> Okay. Then kind of a motion for us to put Joe into that enviable position. >> I'll make a motion to put Joe discussion seconds that motion. >> Jerk in favor.
>> In favor in favor in favor. Bless you my son. We should we're gonna kick that off with his first report >> just quick. I think we covered most of it, but um so the MBTA they conducted
two public meetings. Uh one was Tuesday, September 9th and then Monday, September 15th. Um this was after the two meetings held with the Reading delegation and Reading Fire and Police Chiefs uh in late July, early August. So the
September 9th meeting was held with mostly the rail of butters from Vine and Hancock Street. And this meeting was formally requested by residents and the town manager for several months following the previous hearings um with the MBTA back in late February 2025. The
September 15th meeting, which some of us attended virtually, it was a hybrid session and it was also at the Reading Public Library. They discussed the scope of the MBTA's broader rail modernization program, a general overview of the services enabled by the construction of
this turn track um north of writing depot inside of Mlette zones in Morgan. And then there was also additional details shared around sound studies, emission studies, and traffic studies conducted since the previous NOI was rescended without prejudice in February
of 2025. Um, most of the residents and members of the public were able to ask questions specific to representatives of the MBTA around benefits, concerns, and the scope of the proposal. Um, I would encourage that any members that didn't
attend the September 15th session watch the RCTV replay um, just to kind of better understand what aspects of the proposal might not be within the scope of our NOI that's in front of us. Um, and then yes, we have our site visit
coming up on October 6th. And I believe there is a select board presentation being prepared by the MBTA for October 7th, although I don't believe that's been confirmed yet by Matt. It's been requested. So, >> yeah, I I know they want to I know the
select board wants them there. It seems like they really created a spot where conservation's on Wednesday and on Tuesday nights the only select board meeting that they could go to. So unfortunately that's that is what it is.
Yeah, I didn't I don't uh have any more information. I think that uh other than um having a discussion this afternoon with the with the engineer when he dropped off the application, but it was mostly about storm water uh storm water items
which are not really part of this. We just got into it because he's a storm water engineer also. So, >> have you distributed the NIH to everybody? So, electronically, um, MA, if you wait around, I if you walk back, I'll I'll give you your hard copy, but
it's already on the website. >> Good. >> Along with all of the rest of our upcoming meetings, uh, the stuff 24 Dustin's there and zero small lane >> stuff already. >> Is the butter notification letters um
being prepared? Is there a list identified? So, I think in the previous NOI there was a list of addresses. Um, that's >> absolutely in this NOI there's a list of addresses. I still have to write the legal notice. I'll do that tomorrow. They have um all of next week almost to
to get it out. But, uh that'll be with them tomorrow and they'll they'll send that out uh when they can uh to the list of the butters. So, the list is also part of the packet. So, if you go to the
If you go to the website and download the notice of intent, inside of that is everyone who's getting uh a legal notice. >> I think that's >> Yeah, somebody probably wants to make a
remark, but they put it in the chat, but you might want to. >> So, I to >> Well, it's uh we don't have opportunity to do that during the section of our meeting, but we can turn to these things afterwards,
but someone wanted to read it. I didn't see it. So, if someone wants to read it, it's fine with me. >> It's it's in the Zoom chat, so I think there is. >> We can read it. We don't have to respond to a comment. >> Yeah, let's just wait. I think it's best. I mean, if everyone I've said this
before, a written comment's good, but if you want to make a public comment, you know, it's better to hear you say it. And so we'll have uh a public citizens open forum at the end of this meeting. And
>> let me put it this way like we can't read it unless there's identification information associated with camping anonymous comment. >> It wasn't anonymous. I just didn't have time to read the whole thing when it popped up on the screen briefly.
>> Okay. So after this discussion then there is an opportunity for public comment. You're saying somebody who wants to say something could raise their Zoom hand and be called on. >> Last step before we're done. You can remind me if I don't. >> Okay.
>> Okay. So, >> any additional questions? >> Any other questions for >> any questions for Joe on the MBTA material? >> Chuck, you have anything else for the administrative report? >> No, that was the two items that that I had.
>> Okay. So, we have minutes to approve >> August 13th and August 27th. >> We got the 27th on time. >> I know I sent back a comment, but I don't >> I think the 27th we got first and the 13th we got after.
>> Okay. >> Yeah. So, the 27th we've had for a whole And if people haven't had time to read the 13th, we can hold off and do that later, but we certainly should be able to vote on.
>> So, let's do the 27 first. So, can I have a motion to accept the minutes for August 27th? >> So moved. >> Sherog in favor. >> Talberts in favor. all in favor.
>> Arthur Moore in favor in favor. >> And who second? I didn't hear a second. >> I second and in favor. >> Okay, >> it doesn't matter. Somebody did. Great. Um, so we're saying the 27th people didn't have time to look at. We only got
it two days ago. >> 27th time >> came two days ago and 910 >> still need more time. >> And I haven't seen 910 yet. So >> no, 910 hasn't come in. >> So we will hold on to those two and add
this one hopefully. >> So people should definitely be ready to vote about two weeks from now on the 13th. >> Okay. >> Make sure you have read it and commented as needed. >> And um so can that person who want to
make a comment please raise your hand so Chuck can call on you and please identify yourself. Just give me a second though. >> I don't see anyone raising their hand. >> Use the reactions function at the bottom
and find the raised hand underneath reactions. >> Yeah, I don't see it. I thought it would be him, too. So, unless he's having some >> There he is. Don't see it. Okay. At the bottom of your screen, there should be a thing that says
reactions. >> Just mention >> Lucas just said he couldn't see it. So, >> okay, >> I'm gonna I'm gonna >> Who's the co-host now? Yay. >> So, you can unmute and introduce yourself, please.
>> Hi. Sorry about that. I I I'm on my phone. I didn't know where the reactions was. Uh Lucas Praau, 85 Hancock. I hope everybody's well and had a great summer. >> Um myself and Jim Riley um went to the MBTA board meeting and spoke in front of
both of them for our 3 minutes or so. And uh I'm not sure of how many of you attended the 9:15 meeting. Um but as Joseph can attest there was a lot of once again community concern
um ridership riders sorry riders that used the MBTA are questioning the whole concept of the project and all that stuff. I know this doesn't pertain to the conservation commission but even on the 9th due to the sound study I'll call
it false suspect data um they are just ignoring once again all of our requests. So my question to you all and we asked this to them and they said no after both meetings.
Can you just simply request that they postpone their notice of intent which they submitted today? >> So no, it doesn't work that way. Um once they submit it, we have legal deadlines
date wise by which we have to take certain steps. Um >> yeah, so we can't prevent them from uh submitting their notice of intent and we can't delay them once we have it because
of the jurisdictional thresholds that we're that are the regul and the regulations through the state. Um sometimes uh people go to a lot of planning board meetings and they're able to
set their meeting agenda based on amounts and things like that. We cannot do that in conservation with the conservation permits. So, um I I so I I want you to know that I did I
did hear um or know that people wanted this postponed. It wasn't something that I could take up myself, but I do know that uh Matt had mentioned that um he he
had uh brought it up. So, and when I let them know that I just received the electronic copy, I think that um although he didn't say it, I think his uh disappointment was the fact that he had hoped that they wouldn't uh postpone.
>> Yeah. And I know this doesn't pertain to the conservation, but just you have the February 25th meeting where there were a whole lot of false promises made with regards to open communication. Seven months went by. Two weeks ago, we were
made aware of their their the ninth meeting, which so we had three days to prepare for that. Then we found suspect data. Had another week to prepare for the 15th meeting. Roughly the same attitude from the reading community.
Yes, there were some advocates, but I honestly don't believe those advocates fully understand the location. It's just once again we are getting railroaded, pun intended, by the MBTA with this project and they had seven
months to prepare. The town of Reading has had no time or or input for seven months. So once again, it's not directed to you. Uh it's it was it's just if you can't tell, frustration on on our behalf.
>> Okay, Lucas. I mean, we don't even have an open hearing on it yet. So, at this point, I think I want to wrap that up if we can. >> Sure. Yep. >> Okay. But I appreciate you calling in. >> Yep. Thank you for your time. >> Talk to you later. >> Bye.
>> Okay. On. Is there anything else then before we adjourn? No. Um have a motion to adjourn at 9:44. >> So move. >> Second. Everybody in favor?
Thank you. I should stop saying when we adjourn and say adjourn with 16 minutes to spare more positive life.