Um, all right. So, it is 7:01 and we have a quorum. So, let's uh call this meeting of the finance committee to order. Uh, we are hybrid. I see uh one member who's on Zoom. So, I'll start with a roll call vote. Um, Mark.
Yes. >> John >> here. >> Ed >> here. >> Andry. Uh Marianne >> here. >> Uh Joe, Emily >> here
>> and Joe Carneahan here. All right. So, welcome. We have a few folks here today including folks presenting. >> All right. Um so first thing on our agenda is uh well actually before we go into public comment I have to give oh and uh secretary corum just joined for
attendance purposes. Um >> but we are going to need another chair aren't we? Um let's scoot this way. >> One moment you you step here. I'm sorry. >> All right. So, um I do have to uh I see
that we have three members of the select board present. So, I do have to, you know, point that out. Some select board members know not to deliberate on anything that is, you know, their purview, which is most town business. So, there you go. Um all right. So, with
that out of the way, um, uh, do we have any other comment? Um, uh, Karen, >> so did you want to is there >> not the the, um, the chair is here on Zoom, but since you all are not posted, you cannot call to order. Sorry. So, all
right. Uh, I don't see Well, so we have Bob is in front of the public. I don't know if you have any comments, but uh, all right. I'm just kidding. Um, that's that's why we're here. All right. So, then let's proceed to liaison reports.
Um, it's been a little while since we met. What do people have to report on? Anyone want to go first? >> Jeffrey, go ahead. >> This school committee obviously will be here later talking about the budget, but they are in the middle of the superintendent search process. Um, as
well as, I believe, the rise director search process. Um so they're hoping to get the um superintendent selected before the election in April. So it's a very tight timeline and they're pushing through and I think yeah
>> thank you. Um maybe we should just go around and I'll call in everybody order. So that will be John Sean up next. >> Uh so nothing real major from CPDC but they were discussing updates to the ADU bylaw in their past meeting tonight. We've learned that the ADU applications
have tripled in 2025. So, it's still not a huge number, but it's more than we were getting in the past. So, maybe some new growth news on efforts. >> Thank you. Uh Ed, >> no report. >> We're still building Kilum because Okay.
Uh I said we're still building Kilum. Uh that's usually your >> correct. >> Okay, good. Just checking. >> All right, Andy. Um, so since last time we met, Jason, >> you got to get real close to these mics, I'm afraid. >> So I wanted to just update that Jason
Small has been appointed as a general manager for the light department and we successfully stole him from the damage selected division. So that's that's great, but I don't need that. So I have to report back. >> Thanks, Emily.
>> We're gonna talk about mine later. >> We're now in suspense. All right. Um, switch to the other side since I think chairs were supposed to go last. Marian, >> um, I guess since Jeff didn't announce it and I it's Carla Naro was not running
for school committee again, but Jeffrey Cororum is. Not that I'm not that I'm plugging you, but that's just another candidate. And I honestly decided to take a a select board break. Please, someone else give a select board update cuz I don't know what's going on.
>> That was my New Year's resolution. Less select board. No offense. >> I I can't judge. I haven't watched been watching them either. Uh Joe, >> uh nothing to report. >> Okay. Nothing from Joe. Uh Mark, >> uh nothing. >> All right.
So the um uh the main thing I have to report on is the CPA study committee which is preparing to present our recommendations to the select board um next week uh Tuesday February 10th select board meeting. It's the result of almost two years of work. So I'm uh
certainly looking forward to that and uh invite people to tune in. Um, see. All right. I guess um I'm actually not sure of the protocol whether I can ask the select board for an update or whether that gets deliberationally.
Maybe we don't take any chances. All right. Okay. I mean, it's it is important board is doing for the record. I'd like to say that there for the Yes. Marian >> the most important update Trader Joe's is coming to writing.
>> Yeah. All right. Okay. >> Oh, no. That's No. >> Um, Matt, did you have Matt R, did you have anything you want to share before we jump into the agenda here? >> Um, no, nothing too new. Um, like like we just said, Trader Joe's is coming to Reading. I can confirm that. They haven't allowed us to say what location
it is, but people are guessing about that. Um, Reading is a small town in a lot of ways. So, that's that was sort of the big news. We are meeting um on Tuesday is the next select board meeting. Um the agenda will be posted tomorrow in the packet. So that's about
it. Thank you. >> All right. Well, let's uh keep the agenda moving along then here. Uh speaking of agendas, so the next item is an approval of defel spending for snow and ice. >> You want to talk about ahead and get Chris here too.
So just as standard procedure when we are entering deficit spending we um getting a vote from Kim Linkcom to acknowledge that you know that we're in deficit spending that storm last week was quite a doozy and we'll be asking for a significant amount for snow and ice at April town meeting which is our
normal practice is to replenish at April town meeting but in order to deficit spend technically we're supposed to make sure is aware and approves the deficit spending. Um, Matt, do you have anything to add? >> Um, no, that that's correct. We also have Chris Cole, who's our DPW director
here tonight if there's any specific questions. Um, this this happens. This is anticipated. We always keep our fingers crossed when we do the budget and hope that we're going to stay within it, but we purposely budget it low, as you know, because every year is unpredictable. This year, there was a
lot of uh ice early on. We had to spend a lot on salt and paying people to go out there and salt the roads. And then of course we had the major storm a couple weeks ago. So we're already unfortunately over. We find ourselves in the situation a lot and so we're coming to you to ask for permission to spend
deficit. >> All right. Is there a form from a motion we should be making here or >> I would I would just do simple motion. Motion to approve. We have we do have a a letter in there from me that Sharon
drafted. Um just asking for the approval. So I would just you know make a motion to approve the deficit spending for snow and ice. >> Uh please Joe. Um I guess this question for Chris. So with the um
first you guys did a great job. This was we haven't seen much snow for a while, right? And I know you're still clearing, but I I know say they're still clearing some of the roads and they're even wider than I've ever seen after the snow some, but is that still coming out of the snow budget or is that just covered by a
regular DPW? >> Um, for the most part it's coming, if it's during the day, it's coming out of the regular, you know, um, DPW um, you know, salaries. But, um, if it's overtime, um, it's coming out of the snow ice.
>> Okay. And then I'm just trying to think the timing of this storm. Do we have to pay more overtime because of Sunday? It was good in some ways, but >> on Well, I mean it's it's regular time and a half for Sunday, but they have contractual um requirements, you know,
once they reach a certain number of hours that they get additional compensation that we have to pay for it, too. So, >> Okay. And then in terms of like contracting with like, you know, private plow operators, right? Does that help us or hurt us or >> Oh, it definitely it definitely helps us because we can't do it with the staff,
you know, the staffing levels that we have on our own. So, >> you know, we um we need the contractors to fill out all the uh the plow routes that we have. And >> but are we are we still like below like average with the number of private contractors that are willing to do that
or like could we use more of them? I'm just trying to figure out. >> I mean, we can always use more. just makes the job easier. But, you know, we we get by with what we have and, you know, that's what we do every basically do every year. You know, we we increase the rates every year and,
you know, just manage with what we have. >> Okay. All right. Thanks. >> Uh Mark, >> yeah. Uh just what what is the spend to date? >> Oops. Uh, I think it's 7:05 and we had a budget of six 675. So, we're over by
35,000 already. Any other questions from the committee? Well, then in that case, I'll entertain a motion to approve the uh deficit spending for snow and ice has been presented. >> So moved.
>> Thank you, Emily. Thank you, Ed. Um, last chance for discussion before we vote. All right, let's vote. Mark, >> yes. >> Jeffrey, >> yes. >> John, >> yes. >> Ed, >> yes. Henry, >> yes. >> Emily,
>> yes. >> Marianne, >> yes. >> Joe McDonald, >> yes. >> And Joe Carneahan, yes. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. I was able to get here. So, thank you. All right. Um, next on our agenda is a
presentation on the Pleasant Street Center status and future planning. So, please take it away. >> Come on, Katie. This is you, too. Not doing this road show by myself. Hello.
How is everyone this evening? I'm bringing my town moderator energy. You feeling it? It's going to be a long night. Okay, so we're going to be short. We're going to be quick. This is fun. This is a good time. Um, this is Katie Gabrielloo. She is our director of operations and she manages procurement, risk, and communications for the town.
Kind of a rockstar. I hired her. Um, so this great tonight we're talking about the future of the Pleasant Street Center. Uh, right now retail is slated to uh open soft opening first week in August 2027. Okay. Uh, tomorrow, fun
fact, we'll be getting the bids back uh for the recal construction at 2 o'clock. So, that's exciting. Um but we have to start making a real determination about where we're going to go with this uh this building. It it will be surplus. So what can we do? Um we have a short
presentation to go through and then we're here to collect your ideas, your thoughts, questions um and we are putting those into um an analysis feedback for the select board. Um we'll also be doing a survey for the public.
Um, we're visiting uh boards, committees, and commissions because there's no monopoly on good ideas and through your unique roles with the town, you have interesting perspectives that are valuable to this process. This is also a part of good procurement um
hygiene, if you will. Next slide, please. I made that term up. It's nice. Thank you. Um so the plastic center as you know this is um was originally built in 1883 as our first municipal building.
Um it has it's freaking me out one moment please. >> Uh so >> we should be good. Go ahead. >> It was finished in has a huge living area of 4,300 square feet. We did a commercial appraisal last year. Uh this is a a properly done appraisal. It was
somebody who's qualified to do a historic structure. Um and the determination at that time for April was 9665,000. Potential rental net operating income would be $72,000. >> Uh I think that's per year. I wish it
were per month, but it's only 4200 square feet. But I like where you're going with that. Um, so the site's located and where it's located, it falls short of the lot requirements to for developers to turn it into housing. Um, it could go to a housing authority um to
be made housing. Um it's on the historic registries and there is uh KDIA added a preservation restriction agreement after it with the historic commission um which controls uh limits to the interior and exterior but we can that's a that's a
work we can work with that we can um make an effort to reduce some of that. Um next slide please. >> Katie, can you uh lead us through this one? >> I can. Thanks Jane. So, some of this might look familiar from town meeting. Um, as Jane mentioned, we've been
hitting the roads to other boards and committees. So, if it does look familiar, we'll be quick on this one. This is just outlining some of the potential uses as that we could be looking at for this historic building. So, of course, we could sell the property. We could gift this to the Reading Housing Authority potentially to
create um affordable housing here in town. We could keep it for future town use. We could also explore leasing it to a for-profit or a nonprofit. That's where some of that uh the rental income that we talked about on the previous slide may come from. Um and you can see some of the options. It's font's a
little small here, but some of the town use, you know, we are always talking about the lack of storage here in town. Um town clerk's office in particular has has brought that up. Um additional office space like that is something that we could utilize from a town perspective. From a commercial lease,
you can see some of the some of the option that we've seen in other towns. And if we go to the next slide, please Jackie, you'll see some examples that we've pulled from other tier communities like Wakefield and Peabody of nonprofit usage. Um, we have the Inspire Cafe in Wakefield, which works with the Boys and
Girls Club and provides employment opportunities for folks with differing abilities. Breaking grounds Cafe was created by the Northeast Park and that supports a variety of local restaurants. Both of these happen to be food service related, but we thought these were nice examples to highlight ways in which
nonprofits could utilize space similar to what we have at the Pleasant Street Center and bring bring back something um pretty cool to the community. And then on the next slide, some additional examples of repurposing spaces similar to the Pleasant Street Center. We looked at NIC and Newberry
Port. And as you can see, certainly a similar look to what we have at the Pleasant Street Center. I believe both of these are former um fire stations just like we have in our municipal building here. And so these have both been repurposed to be arts related. So the center for the arts and the
firehouse center for the arts. These serve as community centers that focus on live performances, art galleries, um community events, maybe musical performances, movie screenings, the like. Um, and this is something that we've heard as we've started this kind
of road show from boards and committees as being something that, you know, thinking about what a wonderful location we have for this building situated right downtown. This is something that could be, you know, a very exciting way for this building to be repurposed, activating the downtown area potentially
in the evenings, um, especially. So, we wanted to highlight these four examples as something that we see as, you know, potential usages for this building. >> Yeah. Excellent. >> Oh, other feedback we've received is it could be used to house um important like
found historical documents, could be a little kind of a museum. It could be my favorite word lately is I'm gonna say it aanam. >> Um can I have a little aanam? Who's with me? >> I get so much from everybody. Um, so you know just other utilizations of the space.
>> We get a lot. >> There was there was a a question from the committee. What is an Anthony >> J? >> It's a library. >> You got one. >> No, it's not that kind of library. Um, >> not not necessarily, but it's sort of
like we could put some of our historical documents, but you could also have little, you know, performances. You could have um you could activate the space. So you could have like coffee houses and you could have performances. You said theater, >> author talks,
>> author talks, lectures. Um it's a it's a place where people can get a little cultural um enrichment. So some important procurement considerations with the sale or lease of any property. We have to engage in a competitive
process, competitive solicitation. Um, so while we have some ideas, we've also heard from the food pantry in town they're interested in utilizing the space. Um, we can't say we're only going to give this to, you know, a food pantry
that's based in Reading. Like it has it's supposed to be competitive. That being said, um, we do have the flexibility to put in a solicitation language that says preferential treatment will be given to reading based on profits, something like that. and and
we're allowed to do that. >> Um let's see if the the select board may lease the Pleasant Street Center the building in whole or in part but it does not provide usage of the parking lot in order for the parking lot to be leased.
We have to take that to town meeting. We don't make the we don't know why there it's a wonderful we'd love to see that rule changed. Um so at least there's alignment both but with land it has to go to town meeting. Um so part of the reason we are doing this work now is
so we have a good sense of which process we need to entertain so that we do it the right way. Um because nothing's ever easy. Um and the initial before we started the road show the initial feel we received from the select board seemed to favor a lease and not a sale. Seem to
favor to keep the building within the town. Other feedback we've received is that the whatever happens with the building, it should pay for itself. Um, so the town's not paying to keep it running, that whatever whatever uh is in there is is covering all of the operational costs. Um, that's some early
feedback we've gotten. So, next slide, please. And there we are. That's what we have for you. And now it's your turn. We're not looking for a vote. There's no vote needed. Um, we're just looking for your feedback.
All right, go ahead. I see Marian. >> Hi. So, um, thank you for presenting the ideas. I think, you know, the community repurposing are interesting. I'm not sure if Newbury Port is the fairest comparison to Reading. I mean, they've
already got, you know, the ocean there. They get a lot of draw and whatever they did with that building is just gravy on that. I don't know where the location is in NITC. Um, one of my questions just is it it looks disappointing to me to see
the appraised value. It makes me think notwithstanding the money, we wouldn't get that much for it. The appraisal include the parking lot. >> Yeah. Um, it included the whole parcel lease. >> So, I mean, just I tend to side with the
select board in in leasing it because we could always have it be a short-term lease if the town needs it. it's there because we're not going to be able to in the future get a market rate property. But my my one other question is if you if a senior center wasn't in there with
whatever its needs are, what does it cost to run this building is a year like to keep the heat going to keep basic maintenance? Is it a huge amount of money? Like what is the pay for itself kind of cost? And is that comparable to
the you know 72k rent? Um, I can get that number for you. Joe Huggins has that figure. I don't have that, so it's a great question. Um, I believe the operating costs like heat
and so forth were included. And so that 72,000 is the net, the net profit we would receive after all those expenses are paid. But I can double check that. >> Oh, please do. when you get that share that with the committee because I
Marian's not the only one with that question I'm sure. >> All right. Um I >> I did think that's what it said in parenthesis that that was net. >> Yes. No, it it did. So just to be clear, I understood that as net as well.
However, since not all of the uh options necessarily involve getting a market rate rent for it. Um then you know like for example if the town were to use it without rent wanting it to someone just to keep it as storage space or as a center that is run by the town or any of
those things. Marian has a very fair question which is what is it going to cost to keep the lights on in that building while we do this given that no one's paying us rent for it at that time. It's a fair question. >> It's a difficult question though in that if you're just storing records in there then you don't need to heat it very
much. Right. >> So it I don't know. I bet I bet Joe can give us a expert nuanced answer. So I'm looking forward to that. Um speaking Joe's m um thank you. I guess my question is
related to the cost too like do we know like I thought the pitch for the living center was that there was a lot of concern about mold flooding in that building and I'm concerned about the operating cost too but like longer term like what is the assessment for that building like I
have no idea what does the roof look like or I I I love the building but I'm just curious like you know do the bricks need to be repointed in 10 years like is there any like capital plan for that building it'd be really good to know that too.
And and then relates to like leasing um like we would we would basically act as a landlord which makes me kind of makes me nervous, you know, municipality, right? There's a lot of risk that goes with that. We're not in that business today at least. I don't think a lot of
towns are like do we know other towns that like are in that type of model? It just seems yeah we may be kind of stretching what we're the comfort zone that we typically handle. >> Um some like the NIC center for the arts
is sold to an organization that manages that space and does did the work and they they so it's a nonprofit organization and that became the reading center the native center for the arts. So um that's not a lease scenario. So we can find out more information about what
is it, what are the ages, what are the future capital, you know, considerations for the Boston Street Center. Um, and we know Joe knows how old all those things are there. The building is up to code. Um, it's the elevators there, the sprinklers are there, you know, but it's
a problematic building. It's constantly a smell of gas in there. Um, you know, there your other things. This is an it's an old building that's been retrofitted. Yeah. >> And like the model where like I'm not a first like if we looked at the three affordable units, right? Is is like who
would pay for that reconfiguration work? Would that be the writing like housing? >> Yeah. >> Or could we leverage the trust? Like we have a trust fund, right? With about was it 350,000? Is that right? >> 400. So if the housing authority if the town were to gift it to the housing
authority um then they could utilize a variety of tax credits particularly because it's a historic building they get a greater amount of tax credits um and the the trust and so forth and then they can do financing and they can use their their budgets they get from the
state to pay for financing uh on to do the that redevelopment work. There are organizations like Choice Housing out of Chelmsford helps put together developers and financing packages so housing authorities can create more housing, but it would not be on the town to do that.
>> Okay. >> Okay. >> But if it did in that model though with the town like I guess the renting house authority, the town would still be responsible for long-term capital type projects, right? And maintain a building or >> we would gift it to the housing
authority to do. That's correct. you' be in their budget to manage those things. >> And the three units like um seems like we could get more than three units. >> Yeah, I mean maybe you could the if you look at some of the adaptive reuse that I've seen lately. Um particularly
looking at elderly affordable housing, a lot of adaptive reuse and the apartments are 350 400 square feet. They're small efficiency apartments. They have a a bathroom, they have a a gall just a kitchen on one side of the wall and it's it's basically a small studio. Um, so you if you did something like that, you
might be able to get more units out of it, particularly on the main floor and the top floor. >> Okay. >> And then the basement could be used for storage or other things. >> And under that gifting model, too, we could also limit the amount of parking spaces that went with it. I'm I'm sure.
Right. Well, the whole you could Yeah, you would just give the whole lot to the uh Well, you could have it be a municipal lot with certain spaces, I guess, set aside for residents, you know, and maintenance, but um that could be worked out in the future. I don't know.
>> Okay. And then the final question is and then you could also have a hybrid model, right? Like the food pantry needs a home, right? So, you could have them >> especially if it was under the gifting model. I'm sure the vetting housing authority wouldn't mind sharing. I'm I'm not speaking for them, but >> No, you're absolutely right. It could be
multi-use. So, there could be something that's on the main floor that would you be able to utilize the kitchen there really well in that in that larger space and then maybe the basement space. Um, and then the upstairs space is more like office space, right? There's a couple of meeting rooms and offices and that could
be that could go to a you know a private business that needs some office space right downtown that doesn't mind sharing you know and it can be I'm fairly certain well done and something we can do with procurement at least it two different entities. >> Got it. Okay. Yeah. Because those um
approaches excite me much more than $6,000 a month in rent which I can see us eating through that quickly in the long run. So just personal. Okay, >> John. Uh, question on the leasing the
parking lot. If we were going to go to that lease at time meeting approves a lease, is it per tenant on the parking lot or is it just we approve that we're leasing the parking lot one time? >> It's the ladder. >> The ladder. Yeah. So, >> the tenant it would be a lease that's brought forward. So you would approve
the lease >> and then if a new tenant moves in and they need to have a new lease, do we have to re >> I think if there's a new tenant, you'd have to if it's a new lease. Yeah. It's not just the decision to lease it. It's the it's the lease. >> Okay. >> A document.
>> So would be would we be worried at all that would discourage tenants if they have to negotiate a lease for the building and then have to wait until town meeting afterwards? >> Okay. >> I think so. And then my other question is if we were
to sell the building and whoever bought it, remodeled, you know, the inside in some way for whatever they're going to use it for, that uh would increase the value of the building presumably. Is that new growth or is that does it stay
the same in terms of increasing our tax base >> if it was if we were to sell it? >> Yeah. And then they >> if they got a building permit, >> then yeah, they would go through that that same process. >> So then that's new growth. I could add in that could increase the the tax base.
>> It could increase it. I see where you're going with this. And I love the direction. Um yes. I don't know if how much it would be with the preservation restriction on it. That's like that's another road we have to go down once we decide which road we're taking, but yeah. >> Okay.
on the I have a question that follows up on John. I'll jump in that the so asy do you know what what is the source of the um the stupid rule as we've been already started referring to it that leasing the building has a different set of approvals versus leasing the building and the parking >> it's a great question and I'm pretty
sure it goes back to the Magna Carta >> like I don't nobody knows >> strange way to spell MGL but okay >> yeah uh I don't do you know is there any rhyme or reason >> I don't I think it's the difference between like the developed property and like the land itself that's where they make the distinction So, it certainly is
a situation where someone could lease the space within the Pleasant Street Center and they could use the parking lot, but they cannot have exclusive rights to the parking lot. So, the town would retain the ability to have it as a municipal lot. But yes, we'd have to go through the full process if it was selling the land.
>> All right. >> And that's for any land developed or undeveloped, but parking obviously a little bit developed. >> Miam. So maybe maybe it's related to the underlying zoning of the parking lot and the town could or town meeting could
reszone it to go with it. I I don't know if maybe there's a prominent member of the audience who might know the answer to any any of these histories. No. Okay. You do know >> you're asking a lot of questions and I've >> Yeah,
>> I kind of thought so. Thank you. That's the advice of council if the land is different. Picture. >> Um, thank you, Mr. Chair. Bob Blur Law Sher County Road. Is this thing working? Okay. >> Doesn't Is it >> okay? >> Okay. It's a little quiet, but okay.
>> Um, the distinction between the parking lot and the and the building itself did come up in the past. Um, having nothing to do with, you know, the current situation. Um, and I think it's historic. the um and I don't think it's anything that reading can easily do
without a home rules petition to change. Um I think it if you look at the deeds and see who owns it, I think there's slight differences. Um and I and I also remember the historic aspect was put on the building and not the parking lot and that made a big difference between sort of the two
parcels if you will. Um when I was here we never sold a building so I have no experience. I certainly defer to the procurement folks. We did sell land and that's a lot more straightforward. Um but we only sold land that was um kind
of smalish parcels. Um for instance up in Lothric near where I live there was some land held owned in case it needed a water tank. Once we joined the MW area didn't really need that. So eventually one of the boards said let's you know go through our surplus property. That was
one of them and a developer bought it and and bought a house and put up a house. So most of the land that I sold when I was here was very limited in scope. There weren't a lot of alternative uses and there weren't any municipal uses unless you're going to put up a cell tower and make everyone
unhappy. So it was really just sell the land to the butters to add onto their land or in some cases it was a big enough parcel. Um and then we also purchased uh land such as down at you know the new the new um senior center.
All of this is much more complicated than you think it might need to be. Um and and it's really important that these guys are here to do it because any one slip up in the whole thing can get unraveled. So um you know I'm I'm representing uh
someone who'd like to use the property to the food pantry either whether you know the food pantry is in a position to purchase it outright or just lease part of the building. Doesn't you know either one is is is possible. Um, unfortunately they've outgrown their space. We thought COVID maybe was a
temporary thing for that, but it isn't. It's it's busier now than it was during COVID. And they really need new space. They really need their own space. And they have three alternatives. This is one of them. And and the hard thing is for them to be patient, understand the things I'm telling you is going to take
some time. Um, so you know, they're doing their best to be patient and I know the town's working hard at that. But it's great to kick around the ideas, but in the back of your head, just realize there's twists and turns that may make some of the things you think is
the best thing not that easy. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> All right. Um, Jeffrey, >> I guess I I'm not particularly um inspired by that thought in that it seems like a lot of the things that you've suggested there were um were
things that really belong in the library or were things that we were doing in the senior center but didn't work well because the restrooms there's only a single restroom that's upstairs. So, you know, putting on the big event in the space that's downstairs is a nice space but you know people coming in are gonna want need a restroom. So, some of those
things didn't didn't quite make sense. The food pantry did sound I think I had heard something about that as a possibility before. That sounds like an interesting possibility to me. >> Just a point of information, there are bathrooms in the basement as well. >> Okay. >> But none on the main floor >> just sort of like this building
actually. Yeah. >> And thanks thanks G for this. That's uh excellent and obviously uh you know kind of a worthwhile endeavor. I I I echo a lot of the questions uh that um that the rest of the committee has asked is I think specifically around you know
what's the number to keep it self- sustaining. You know I think that's you know that that's a big piece of it. Um, you know, um, and I think a lot of the questions that Joe asked, um, you know, um, still owning an historic building from 1883 is going to have, you know,
lots of care, um, on it as far as, you know, maintenance and and everything else from a capital perspective. Um and I and I and I think that's the part of it I think I worry about um the most um is I think we're trying to be in a
position where we're trying to streamline what we're what we're doing and how we're operating as a as a town government and you know kind of you know if there's a chance for us not to extend ourselves um and and and something where we we're not having to maintain um
another building I think is um is probably something that we should be looking um you know forward um you know especially as we look at how you know just how we operate in general. Um I do think it's um important to have some of
these other scenarios kind of mapped out and again I and and I think devalued and and some other discussion it's very tough to project you know all the way out um that understanding that okay if one um lease option doesn't work okay
well if you sell it to uh to John's point do we now start to see revenue um through the tax piece um you know um and so it it would be good to you know kind of under understand a scenario all the way down to what the the net operating
is and you know kind of in each of them. Um but I but I you know I I I you know I I I do think that you know the the needs of of the food pantry um you know having something that's you
know a draw to the downtown um you know um whether it's you know um some of those other kind of mixed places uh ideas I think are are are really exciting to be able to explore um you know it but but I think there's some qualifiers like it
it really has to make sense for what the town of Reading wants to do. Um, and I think that's, you know, I don't think, you know, this is a shiny kind of thing to, you know, and a new endeavor, but I I think we we can't lose sight of kind of like our our core, you know, kind of,
you know, uh, uh, options are and and what we should be doing as a town. And I think um we're we're not some of the other towns that you know that have um you know these types of uh buildings and they can operate a little bit differently. I think we run pretty lean and and that's and that's for a reason.
Um and so I I I worry about us you kind of overextending um by being a landlord or or or operating leases that uh that we we might not necessarily have experience doing. Um the other question too is you know
around that too because I I do think that extends to like you know how it's remodeled like depending on what you do like who's on the hook for that remodel you know whether it's the food pantry or things like I think those are you know all things that we just need to be able to have you know you know visibility
into and I think that's that would be important. Uh Mark, >> yeah, to sort of follow up on Ed and John's comments, I think if we looked at selling, if you could sell the building in the parking lot, you know, originally
this this the uh recal location there was going to be like a 25 or 30,000 square foot building. So, I'm assuming if it got sold, you know, whether it's residence or whatever, it could be that many square feet. Um, so I think that
would generate, you know, to follow up on John, I don't know what, you know, uh, property tax, but I think it'd be, you know, significant from what we're getting today. So I think looking at selling it is is looking at selling the building and the lot and what could go there and what it would generate. And
maybe, you know, they have to keep the existing building as a historical site, but maybe part of it could still be used as, you know, for the food pantry, but, you know, could it be more than just that one building would be my question.
>> That's a that's a great question we can flesh out. >> Um, Emily, I see your hand. >> Just want to add on a little bit to Ed, Mark, John. Um, I too excited about some of the possibilities for the leasing option,
but thinking about the empty spaces that we've had around town for years and some cases decades. Um, thinking about how long like the Walgreens building, I don't even know what it is anymore. Dollar store, but you know, same general area, right?
And so, you know, if we don't attract someone to take up that lease, you know, every month that sits, you know, it's not a net 70, it's a it's a negative 25 or whatever. So, um, if we, you know, like Ed said, if we have some plans or,
you know, scenario A, B, and C and things we think are very likely, not so likely, medium likely, I think that would be really helpful as you're trying to figure out what to do with this property. But my initial, you know, reading the packet, I was like, leasing feels very risky to me. Uh, especially
in a place where we're trying to tighten our belts. So, but thank you for the presentation, >> go ahead. >> Uh, it's more of a comment, but I am um usually maybe it's me personally, but I'm always against selling properties.
I'm always about obtaining properties. And the reason being that if you look at the town in the future of maybe 5 to 10 years, uh the services of the town will probably increasing the town hall here is relatively small for the workforce that they have. And what's going to
happen is that we're going to be looking for space probably in in 5 to 8 years or maybe sooner. Uh as the town expands, there's more residents, there's buildings. Um the new MBTA is probably going to uh bring some new development. So there's going to be more need for
services. So that property there is close to the police station, close to downtown, uh close to our town hall. So there's probably going to be a need for it in the future. So I'm completely I'm going to say it right now against selling the property. The use, um I love
the idea of being a hybrid use. And when I say a hybrid use is a nonprofit such as a food pantry, it's actually ideal for that building. Um, and then retain some of the other offices if they don't need to list the whole space for town
use. And the other thing to keep in mind is that ideally you want the building to pay for itself. And the way that it pays for itself is by listing it one for food pantry, but also we need to be a little more practical. Uh, for example, um,
Reading Retirement right now pays uh, rent to uh, private to um, to someone that owns a building in Haven Street. So, one idea is to have move that move that kind of town or I know it's under
um its own governing body, but it pays rent right now to um for profit or whatever the LLC that owns the building is, but it could easily move there and then it will pay the count. So, the money stays within us. So, that's one
solution for it. Um, the other thing that I wanted to mention is what important for that building is that it's right downtown and it should serve if we sell it um, you're going to make probably a million
and then the tax the taxes that you will get from it, you're not going to realize it until like five, six years from now. So the proximity to our current buildings such as the the police especially the police as we expand and
the town the town hall I think it's that property is more valuable that uh just selling it and there's other ways to to fund it. Um I know recreation is always looking for space but with the new building there maybe they they don't need it that much but there's other
concrete always looking for space. Um, and I get motivated because I've recently I've been doing a lot of um, business in Beverly. And what happens there is they own all the there's Beverly offices all over downtown. Uh,
and what that does is that it increases the um, people work in in town offices and then it increases the food traffic. So what that means is somebody comes in here and then they need to go to their building for because there's a town
office there, they're walking right downtown. So all of the downtown businesses probably going to benefit from it. So um that's my that's my uh comment for that. >> Thank you.
So, um I know with the recal that it's going to have a senior center portion and a big sports portion, but there's other towns. There's been clamoring by different people to have some kind of a teen center or it doesn't have to be sports, but just another kind
of spot for them to go. And I'm not saying the town would take on that liability or who would who would run it out. When you said recreation, it made me think of that that like combined with a food pantry or storage, there could be something like that too that there'd be
a big need cuz there's other towns that are developing that and teens don't care about, you know, the bathroom downstairs. I mean, I know we have to have everything be accessible, but I I think that like you said, it's just it's so that's why I didn't understand the appraisal. It depends on the usage, but
it's it's so convenient to so many things that >> the police department would want to use that building at some point. >> Yeah. Okay. Thank you. >> I'll go ahead and weigh in myself. I've been so I'm very similarly to Henry and
and um uh that that uh I just selling you know there's the whole joke about buy land. They're not making it anymore. buy historic buildings. They're not making those anymore. Um, uh, there's an awful lot of things about that place that are not, you know, we
would never get again. We would never have a chance to get again the location, um, or anything like that, um, if it were to, you know, become a market rate real estate property. So, yeah, that does certainly my inclination is to look at basically everything besides selling
before selling. Um, I do recognize the budget problem. I mean, I recognize all the different constraints there. leasing is a pain. Uh being a landlord is a pain. Uh but on the other hand, um we our as this committee knows well um and
as town staff knows well um our budget is limited as well and is coming under pressure. So, um, uh, yeah, figuring out some way to square that circle of don't sell it because, you know, reading has been here for hundreds of years and would like to be here for hundreds of
years more and, you know, heaven knows what we might want to use something in the center of town for even in 10 years. Um, but I certainly don't want to give up that option. So, I would want to explore all the other options first. >> Okay. >> Thank you very much.
>> Thank you. appreciate the lots of good feedback. Every committee has their own lots of good feedback stuff. None of us >> I can't take I can't place favorites, Ed, but you know. >> There we go. >> Thank you very much. >> I can see the way you were saying that.
>> All right. So, um uh I do want to mention in case uh either we have we only have two board members on the call now. So if it is appropriate at some point to call on either of them for something, we don't have to worry about an open meeting law situation there. Just sharing that for
the record. All right. Um so moving along in our agenda. Um the uh Division of Local Services offered a financial policy seminar here in Reading at Wedding's request, but attended by many other towns um at the library uh just
last week. And um I'm not sure who of us should talk first and maybe I'll offer it to to Matt and Sharon first. Um but we went through yes we talked about financial policies which is a topic that this committee has discussed many times before and we've definitely got some thoughts. Several of us were there
Jeffrey Emily um Joe McDonald was there part of it and I was there as well. Um I had Karen and Chris and Carol from the select board there as well. So, um, Jim, do you have any opening thoughts on this? >> Um, sure, I'll start. Uh, I thought it
was a a really great, uh, seminar workshop. It was a good day. We had requested it at FINCOM and the stock board's request. Um, in the past, I guess as part of the community compact, the state would come in and actually write these policies for you and it would take anywhere three to four months
to do. And then recently they thought the most effective way is to sort of go out and teach people about the policies have have the towns take the first crack at it. They would be available for some highle review if needed. Um and they do
that by having these larger workshops. Um when I approached the state they said that there were other similarly situated towns that wanted these and so I said why don't we host it in writing bring people out there and it was a very good well well attended uh seminar workshop
um we got a lot out of it one thing we have a lot of policies and Sharon has the book right here a lot of the policies that were covered at the workshop we have some variation of which is good so we're we're in goodstead there are other policies that may be a
bit new to us that we want to implement. We want to take a look at really everything we have and see I don't know that for reading having they had one document which I can share if you haven't shared um a template for one big set of policies our policies are a
little more scattered and part of it is by necessary some some are in bylaws some are income policies I don't know that we'll always we'll ever have like one big book that it's you know covered under one authority but I think we have a lot of different of the bases covered Um, but we had a we had a good
discussion. It was it was good to hear what other towns were doing. Uh, I think we're we're in great shape financially when I hear about what goes on in other towns as well and the way they do things. Um, not to knock any of the towns that were there, but um, and I think what we're doing, Sharon could speak to it a little bit, but we are
going through the the draft document that they gave us to see what parts of it already fit in our policies. Maybe if there's something new, we can have a new policy there uh and look at it. And you know, it's always good to sort of refresh too. Even though we have
policies, you know, FINCOM, they want to look at it and say, "Okay, we can we can refresh that or or change some of the limits and whatnot." Uh the same with the bylaws and and other policies that are out there. So, all in all, I think it was a good start. I'll maintain a relationship with the state on this as
will Sharon uh to to walk through it and we any anybody that wants to help on it and feedback we're always looking for more help in that area. So Sharon, did you have anything to add? >> Any last time? I don't think I picked Haley.
Um so I thought it was a good a good conference. I felt like the templates they had, the thing that I really liked about their templates is that they had references to the the chapters of the law, the sections of the law that are pertaining to that area. So, it was good
because I think you could review all those sections and make sure that your everything you have in your current policy actually matches up with current law. Um, I think that's important. A lot of what they went through, we did have those policies. Maybe there were a couple that we didn't. Um, but like I
said, I think you got to look at these policies regularly and make sure that they're up to date with what current law is and also what our thinking is at the point that we're looking at them. So, I have them. I had brought them to the training thinking I'd be drawing, but it was really more about looking at their
template. Um, so I I plan to look at them, each and every one of them, and kind of compare them to like what their template was suggesting and see if I can make some first round like drafts, you know, to look at and have us review.
Are there um I guess maybe next I should should ask the other FinCon members who are there if any of you have comments to share. I have a list of notes and questions I want to share, but I'm again trying not to go first. >> Great. Good job. Are you a guinea pig
here? Yeah. So, um, one takeaway for me was that, um, you know, I'm not just saying this because Sharon sit next to me, but, um, we we are fortunate to have her. Like when I heard other towns are struggling with or when they talk about policies, I'm not watching Sharon day
today, but I've heard her reference these things in the past. So, you know, tip of the hat, you know, um you should um you know, hope hopefully you feel valued here. The the other things I like takeaways for me were more um there was one talk about like a capital plan
committee and I don't know if we really need a capital plan committee, but there was that notion of like metrics around the capital budget and I know that happens today where there's a lot of conversations across the different town departments, school, etc. to prioritize
our capital items and challenge does a great job with that, you know, spreadsheet that she creates, but you know, maybe there's some way to without making it too ownorous like that might help some of the decision- making because I know sometimes I I see that capital plan and yes, can I spend more
money at road, but really to know is that $80,000 or $180,000 dump truck is that like an A, B, or C or you know, however metric you want to look at like without making it too too convoluted. Um the other thing is like they they showed us some nice data sets but unfortunately
you have to download them all into Excel. So it would I think you'll go on the same place Jeffrey like it'd be nice to look at our peer groups again and potentially there's a lot of data out there but software that they use is very limited basically they have a lot of
data put that into like Excel right and go wild right so I I think there's an opportunity there um and and then the other thing is like if if you know myself can help or anyone else that was there like like Sharon like updating some of the policies you know I think
she could use some help, right? So, >> Jeffrey, anything you want to add there? >> Yes, I I echo what Joseph was saying about uh the capital plan and and knowing the priorities, right, that we see it and we understand, you know, things are shifted around here and there, but I don't have a good sense of, you know, why did the dump truck get
moved up this year? You know, where is it that the back the kind of background information to put it on the list this year as opposed to next year? I'm I'm not sure if a dump truck is specifically used here, but there's that just sort of like we know it's there somewhere. There's some justification, but it's not
in the spreadsheet and I'm not, you know, without making it too burdensome as you say, how do we how do we add some more of that information so that we can say yes, this is why, you know, we approve this particular u shuffle reordering of things on the
the capital plan when we come to town meeting. Um yeah and I guess I don't actually know all of the the finance plans. I know that for example the school committee has particular dates by which they must submit their budget. you know that they
vote on it at a particular time and they um I I don't know to what extent we have policies that say you know for the other departments do you have to get your budget in by such and such a time and there was some you know some I think they mentioned that you know some towns don't have that and it's it's always
been done by such and such a time but then if somebody comes in and doesn't get their thing in there's not a policy you can point to and say hey you know that's actually the policy it's not just I asked you to do it it's really so I don't you know I defer then obviously to the town staff to say, you know, these
are the policies we need because, you know, this hasn't been an issue before, but we see this as as a possible um case where something could back come and and hinder us uh in being effective in the future. And I thought also that for us
the first half of the the workshop was really good for us in terms of policies on capital plans and budget planning and the second half was all on operations which we really don't get into. Right? So like when you reconcile your accounts and and dep make your deposit to the bank it's like okay then I mean if we
need to vote on such a thing we're happy to you know put a stamp of approval on it but clearly that's not something we're generally as as finance committee involved with those decisions. Emily, anything you want to add? >> I will echo uh Joe's comment. We are
very lucky to have Sharon at the helm. Um there were some comments from some of the peer comm community or the other communities that were there that was like, "Oh, well, Sharon does does her thing and does her thing really well." So, really appreciate you um doing all
the work you do, Sharon. Um, and then the peer community data. If you don't know, I am a statistician by trade. So, I downloaded all the spreadsheets and I merged them into a master database and I'm doing some modeling because I'm a nerd. Um, so I would love to talk with
you more about that, Sharon, at some point. Did it too. This is like nerds nerd central. >> Nerd chairs and coaches. >> We're doing great. But I >> generating a new peer group anyway.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. You volunteered to take that on and >> I I'm starting to try to figure out what that looks like with like act with stats instead of with businesses and like oh they're kind of the same size. So you know not to get too technical and nerdy
but I've been trying to you know on each metric like what communities are within 5% of us basically and then if there are people that hit more or less. Yeah. Anyway, so we'd love to talk more about that at some point, but not today. >> Can we share that merge database with
the group? >> It's public data, so I don't see why not. >> Yeah. >> Share that with the group. I think >> I'll clean it up and then share. >> I mean, actually, yeah, this is this is in fact a thing that we kind of learned
this power from the CPA committee where we can just ask Jax to put things on the town website and go on the town website. It's magical. Um, and so yes, could be if if you have a um a snapshot of their uh you know, whatever
seven or eight different spreadsheets merged into one. Um I bet you could share that with Jackson and anyone of us could download it from the um thing. Yes, I did the same thing during the um as Jeffrey said, the first half was about planning, which is, you know, what we help with here, and the second half
was operations, which was a good opportunity for me to play with spreadsheets because that was not obviously my area of expertise or responsibility. Um, and indeed that's not an area where I have any reason to think there's anything
would need to change. Um there are definitely things in terms of policies and the planning side that we've talked about. Um interestingly peer communities is not in their template as a policy. We did have a little bit of during one of the coffee breaks we chatted with some of the folks there. Um I actually forget
who came over with me. Um maybe Matt was there. Um you know and uh they did have some feedback from our existing pure community list. Um, the first was that they thought it was oddly large with 23, which is funny because I I didn't I mean, filtering 350 down to 23 is a
pretty big filtering right there. And at some point, you just get to like you're not just like, I'm just going to do whatever Wakefield does. Like, no. Um, you need more you need multiple peers to get a range of of, you know, options. Um, there isn't, you know, no disrespect to any of our neighboring towns, but there's no one town that I want to
emulate in everything. There's probably not even, you know, five of them. Maybe that is the right number. I don't know. Um, let's see. Other So, I did make notes on, you know, there were things that the template had this nice thing where they had different colorcoded things for you to fill in. And some of
them were sort of mechanical things like the name of your town and the title of the person and town staff who was responsible for this. So, you know, we have a CFO and you have only a town accountant and no one with the CFO title, you know, whatever. Um uh that's that's all mechanical. Then they had
things that were highlighted in yellow where you have to make a choice like what is your annual funding target for capital and debt. Ours as everybody here knows is 5% right now. Um there are other ones where we don't have that set
as far as I know. Um people find although I have not gotten to read that pink binder. I don't actually want to read the whole pink binder but it doesn't mean I don't know what's in it. So for example, do we have a formal definition of what you know makes something a capital improvement versus being in the expenses line for a
department or um you know how do we decide when we go to town meeting for something whether we want to use you know included debt or just cash in the operating budget or cash from free cash. Um I've we have weighed in on that. this
committee has weighed in on whether something should be free cash or borrowing before, but we were kind of there wasn't a standard policy that we were following in doing so. Um, so there's an opportunity to put down some guidelines around that. Um,
uh, let's see, there's interesting like there they talked about, you know, having a target for debt service in total which would include excluded debt. Um that would certainly change the numbers a lot in this town because the amount of excluded debt is getting real big is going from zero this happy year.
I hope I would like everyone please take a moment to appreciate your real estate bills this year. um and and then sigh um uh you know so we will have a lot of excluded debt and we know that's something that like um the amount of debt in total not just included or
excluded is something that rating agencies look at um you know um someone asked where FINCOM reserve amounts come from and indeed ours is 200,000 because it was 200,000 last year that's that's the system I think you know maybe
there's no need to reserve that one because we've not been asked for to use the whole amount. I don't know, maybe we've been asked kind of close to the whole amount. So, we certainly don't want to find ourselves in a position where we can't, you know, meet some emergency need. Um, on the other hand, also that is setting aside
money that normally just goes back to cash. And one other thing we did talk about was the use of free cash. And you know our I was really hoping for a better answer from the folks from the state about like you know we budget
conservatively. I don't tell me or and certainly don't tell Sharon not to budget conservatively but the effect of budgeting conservatively is that you have regeneration. Um, and I do think maybe
some places deal with this by uh not having that 5% for capital and debt like we do. And instead they just they don't that gives them 5% more for their operating budget which takes away the need for free cash and then they spend
all the same amount of free cash on capital which basically means they've done exactly what we have. They just moved they moved the things around. So they did it. um which is not a um >> is that is that because there was an absence of policy on their end? >> Um I mean it's uh well
>> we have the 5% >> you're gonna you need a mic. >> Go ahead Ed. >> Yeah because we have a 5% policy, you know, we we so I'm asking do they do it that way because there's an absence of that 5% policy. So they they they
take it out of free cash. I mean, you would if you don't spend on capital, bad things happen. Uh, so, um, I think the short answer is yes. Um, I mean, there there's also this this principled objection to the use of free cash that
folks have, but again, I haven't really heard the I haven't heard how it's actually different for changes like how many taxes people pay and what services they get. Um, >> yeah, I guess I guess I don't know if this would have come out, but like I I
look at the fact that there's a there that 5% policy. It's it's very similar to like, you know, like as an individual where you you you save first and spend later, you know, I mean, like, you know, so there's a priority in what and how you you kind of you budget for yourself.
And I think by, you know, if you're if you're investing in capital based on what's left, then you may not always hit five. And so I think that's you know and I think this having the policy and the discipline that we have leads us to in
the long term you know um a a consistently better position because everything is well maintained because we are spending the 5% and then you know we're we're spending out of cash in the back. >> At a minimum it's better maintained. I think well might be a some of the folks
in public works driving trucks that are 15 years old might might have differences with well but it's certainly better maintained. I agree 100%. Sharon, >> so I think that what I got from it is that our policy of the 5% debt and capital is unique that I don't I don't think that that's what's done in other
communities. I think that people look at free cash should be used for one time uses and they'll look at it for capital and a lot of times whatever they regenerated last year that's what they'll spend on capital. I think our approach is much more disciplined with the 5% because we are putting three four
million dollars towards capital every year. Um and so the small amount that we used to use usually was up to like one and a half million prior to inflation hitting. We did not use anything outrageous and we had far exceeding what
we would you know we would spend more on capital than what we would use from our free cash. this use of free cash at this high level has only been over the last couple years where inflation has harmed our budget so greatly. I don't think that our style prior to that was
problematic because I feel like we had that commitment to the capital and we are not just doing it because we have regeneration. Okay, we have money, we'll put it towards capital. That's not our commitment. Our commitment is 5%. We built our budget that way and we fill a little bit of the gap with that that
free cash because it is a one-time use sort of thing. It's not something we have to do every single year. I don't have to buy a fire a truck every year, but but a lot of times they'll look at capital as that one thing that they should be able to use it for because it's a one-time thing. It's something that you don't have to spend your money
on every year. Um, I think our commitment to doing the 5% is what makes our budget unique and makes this work and it's why we always use the free cash as some sort of a component to it to help fund some of the capital so that that huge amount of capital that we're
committed to spending that we're it doesn't completely bury the whole operating budget. I mean, every year there's a minimum $3 million of of capital in that budget. sometimes four, you know, sometimes five, depending on how much debt is there. And prior to the
inflationary period, we were putting in no more than $2 million of free cash. So, there was always a good portion that was funded just from our regular operating budget. I think it's really hard when people haven't seen our budget and how we build our budget and how different it is from other communities
to really make a judgment call of what we're doing makes sense. I mean, I'm not in favor of how much cash we've had to use the last few years because of what inflation has done to our budget, but generally I'm not against the way we were doing it prior because I feel that
commitment is there to the capital is to not let things slide and let things, you know, end up being problems before they're taken care of. Like I think that's the biggest concern. And right now our capital plan is in that space where we have every line item has like a
how many years that asset's going to last. What dictates where I move it has to do with balancing that 5% with how old is that asset and how long can we expect it to last and can we get another year or can we not you know and that's where those conversations with the
mechanics and the people who run those departments become very crucial to where I put it on the capital plant. this unexpected thing happened or you know so I feel like it's really hard to compare us to others because our budget looks so different. A lot of other communities don't do the accommodated cost where we
take those heavy hitters off the top before we start to split the money between the town and the school. So it's really hard to compare ourselves to another community because we take a very different approach. I haven't changed anything that Bob set up because I feel like it was really well thought out and
it works for us. Um, and I I just carry forward what he put in place because it's always worked for us. And since I've been here, free cash has been rising, rising, rising. Inflation is not something that any community escaped over the last three years. What we're seeing is something that's across the
board. You can't have doubledigit growth on a lot of line items within a budget that's going to have increase of 3.2 maybe percent of revenues. You can't have multiple line items growing by double digits and not have that impact you. It just the math isn't going to
work. And so that's why we think this we're buying ourselves time right now. Um and I just feel like their answers of you should never use free cash. You're not really looking at what we're doing. I you don't see the commitments that we've made to this budget every year. And I think that's important to note.
>> Sure. Did you did I mean did you already have an appreciation for how different you know you we do our budget versus other towns or or was there more things that were highlighted in this discussion that you you kind of learned through it that
>> I've always used to be an auditor earlier in my career I used to audit cities and towns so I knew right away when I came to writing that that our model was very much well thought out and very different from what I'd seen in the past. So, and that's why I stick to it because it
works. You know, I do think it's it's lousy to be in the situation you're in and it's painful to have to try and pick our moment to figure out when we write the ship because all these costs have blown up out of control. Um, but I I still support the way we do things
because I feel like it's always worked. And I felt like some of the comments coming from Dear was like, well, why not be less conservative? When I say conservative, I'm telling you that the number I'm putting there is probably very much likely the actual number from the prior year of revenue that was
collected. So that's not overly conservative. That's that's the safe number, right? And and it still could go down. Motor vehicle being prime example. >> That was what I was going to say. They said you can't do more than 90% of your previous year. And yet I remember several years where we said I raised it.
I raised it. I raised it and still people bought more cars. The other thing is is why is the one telling you not to do that? Like when I do my recap, if I started to say, "Okay, I got $3 million um in motor vehicle x. I think I'll get 4.3 next year, but I only got four."
They're going to question me on it. They're not going to let my recap go through like that. They're going to say, "You need to show me where you got that number, that you're so sure that you're going to get that." They can see the actual prior year and they'll be very comfortable with that. You start pushing that number upwards and they start
questioning. So, they'll tell you one thing, but then when you're trying to set your tax rate, it's a very different situation. They're like, "Well, show me show me where this revenue is coming from. How do you know for sure you'll have it?" You can't justify. It's an up and down thing. And a lot of a lot of what goes on with our our local revenues
are very reliant on how the economy is doing and how people are feeling they have whether or not they have disposable income or not. You know, people are buying less cars when they feel like they don't have as much disposable income. They're going to hold their car for longer. they're going to go out to eat less. We get less meals tax. We are
very much impacted about how people are feeling about, you know, what they have going on financially and whether or not they need to, you know, halt their spending or slow their spending. We will feel those impacts yeartoear. So, we have to be very sensitive to what's
going on around us and not be overly optimistic. That's the smart thing to do. I felt like the comments being made were like I was cheating the the taxpayers by being overly conservative. I'm pushing those numbers up as high as I can and still it's we're falling short
because there's just no way to to close the gap so large because of all that's gone on. I mean, I'm like, just to think about just even this past year, we had 39% for rubbish and 14% for health insurance and those are big numbers to start off with and you're going to grow
them at that rate and somehow I'm supposed to cover that within a 3.2% revenue growth. Like, do you know what I mean? Like, just thinking about it, you have to actually realize that that math is never going to work. Prop 2 and a half does not help us. It hurts us. And we have to be very careful about what we
do. and and we and then I also don't want to go to town meeting and say I overp projected my revenues now you need to give me free cash do you know what I mean like I I was overly optimistic now forgive me give me more free cash like I'd rather tell them up front I think there's a likelihood we might need some
free cash and put it in there do you know what I mean like I think that is a safer way to go I felt like they were just never using it well I think our scenario looks a little different than most and I just wanted to say that >> so I wasn't that I wasn't able to go to
this >> sorry I wasn't able to go to this meeting but listening to what you're saying Sharon did you all get a sense I mean do do towns run things differently than cities where you said you know you're going to have to go to town meeting and explain something someone
like in the city of Melrose they're not account they're not going to get as many direct facing >> inquiries that they may get their city counselors or whatever it's called there and then people who come to public comment at the meeting, but I feel
especially with like representative town meeting though, you know, the other kinds of town meeting, anyone can show up that you're just you're going to get that many more hits and questions. And I guess the other point is where you feel like some people were saying, why are we
so conservative? You know, you can almost push back like is is our situation with our money better than the way the state is running theirs like for the for the the people who want want to be less conservative? Are they just having failing overrides
or you know this the state can just they're not they can they can say things but they're not living the reality of trying to get an override passed. >> I mean and I'm just bringing back to what I presented at financial forum. We had something that I had put in the packet that showed how what percentages
each community in Massachusetts is using of their reserves and most of them are using all the reserves or almost all of them. We were up at the top of the range even though we're using so much the percentage still is lower and I think it's because we've had this commitment to the capital and you know I bet you a
lot of these communities are doing bare minimum capital whatever they can afford and that's it. The way we've done this is a very disciplined way of saying we can't let anything go. We have to do at least a certain percentage. That percentage holds us like accountable to
ourselves. And and you know, I just I think it's a better way of doing things. And I thought that they just matter of factly saying you should never do it. I think you have to look at the situation in its totality to actually get the situation. >> Andre, go ahead.
Just wanted to make a comment on what previous said about the capital plan and what the way that we do it. I've looked into it. I know it's it causes a lot of pressure on what what you have to like move out and what you have to pick and choose. And that's a big question that I
think we should definitely look at if 5% it's actually still feasible because we've been at 5% for a long time. Actually, we've been like forever 5%. So um it's something that to consider in the future. Maybe we can pick it up and
see have a discussion about it if 5% is still feasible. >> Yeah. No, I certainly took away one of my big takeaways was understanding the relationship between how we do capital planning and how we use free cash. And that's sort of the like, you know, if
you frame it as we are imprecise at budgeting and then we end up with using a lot of free cash that makes us sound sloppy. But that's not the reality. The reality is that we are committing to spend a certain amount on capital and then we are taking you know our our
uh budgeting is not less precise than everyone else's. It's just that we put ours back into the operating budget and then spend it on capital there as opposed to other people who spend it on capital, but they don't spend anything from the operating budget on capital, which means they're not reliably spending on capital. And if you say this
is about losing free cash, it sounds reckless. If you say this is about reliably spending on capital, you see it's actually very responsible. There's um Karen, go ahead. Did you did you want um Oh, Jody, did you hand up? Oh, just quick quickly probably saying the same thing different way but um I I
I look at that 5% similar to just like basic personal finance like pay yourself first put that money away into savings or 401k and then you deal with like what you can do from an operating perspective right and I think yes we can you know definitely discuss like should it be 5%
6% but I I love taking that off the top because I think it just keeps you um so much more disciplined and in terms conservative accounting like the the only thing if I was struggle with is like interest income. You know, we have a much bigger amount like sitting there
free cash and trying to like game interest rates I guess on interest rates. I think we've seen some variability and surprises there but I don't know a better way of doing that. Right. So Ed, um, so I I I'm maybe just kind of taking
this off in, um, in in probably the next leg of it. Um, and and this may be a little bit, you know, kind of forward thinking everything that I think we're talking about as far as, you know, the the order of operations as far as how we how the budgets, you know, kind of created. I do
think as we start to get into this next leg where we start to talk about how we replenish um I I think the one thing that uh that I'm I'm hearing that I think will help you know kind of tell
the story is the discipline that's also used when you set the operating budget post all of this. I I I think there is a lot of hard decisions that are made consistently every every year on how to
do that and and and what gets added, what gets cut um or what what doesn't get added. Um and so I think that's that's that um thread is I think something that we we
just need to socialize more. Um I because I um I echo you know kind of what Joe's your kind of first comment is is that you know we're very lucky to have you know you in this in this position and the discipline that we use.
I I think it's lo it gets lost on the general public. They don't understand the detail. I think we just need to figure out a way to to distill it a little bit better. I think there's a lot of decisions that are made on staff and
other expenses that are made post you know kind of capital planning and I think need to be highlighted as well. I think it's not just how we maintain from a capital perspective. There's a lot of other decisions that are made there again because of the order that we do
that that I think we should we should lean into and and and and talk about more because it is uh it's a very impressive discipline and I and I would you know I would challenge you know other folks that that think that that the town is reckless um because that
inevitably will come up um it always does and I think that's something that we need to prepare for and be able to explain. And not to bear late, we have a good story there. That's I'm not saying that you're crafting. I just think it's telling it uh because it it is done with
a you know an an expert uh discipline. >> All right. So there's another dimension of policy that that um we've talked about um that hasn't come up with this discussion yet and I think we all agreed that we all love um Sharon and being responsible.
So go team um and uh but then the um um and uh is the question of how we um how we structure our uh cash and reserves. Um the way we do things right now we
have so we have our policy versus our minimum target for reserve 7% and we've talked about whether it needs to be 10% because of rating agencies and so forth. Um uh our current policy actually you know a balance less than 5% requires
formal review by the committee but that's 5% would be low. Um, but one thing we don't do is we there's no So, we have a general stabilization fund. I understand it's created like after the last override and we put $2 million in
it and then we forgot it exists. Um, which I mean we can forget exists counts towards our 70% every year. Um, but there's no, as far as I know, there's no policy for when anything should ever go into it or come out of it.
Um so um you know one might um you know some people will look at our you know if if the town does or this isn't the board that decides whether or not to put forward an override but if the town does put forward an override this year people are going to look at the absolute amount of our free cash and they're going to
say well free cash is free and there's you know the still this whatever how many digit number um and so surely I don't need to pay for a tax override because you know um we have a lot of free cash like well no the free cash is both stuff we could spend on a onetime
thing uh and it is also our reserves it is also you know we don't so um and this might be this might be the wrong time because I'm afraid our you know our our reserves are going to get smaller before they get bigger again um but I wonder if
you know after the next override is the next time to to maybe evolve that policy to have a better defined like No, this is free cash when you know town meeting needs to spend, you know, a million dollars for a feasibility study for whatever like that's where we pay it from and it's no
big deal. And this is stabilization fund where if you think about touching this, it's already to talk about an override. Um, so that's a policy question. I don't think 2026 might not be the year to to
uh to pose that question, but um I think it's an important one and will hopefully help you know the next override after this one be further away and smoother. >> I think it's a good idea. I think that's a really good idea.
Uh Karen >> Karen Heric for um great discussion as usual and I and um I was energized leaving that um I'm always energized after DLS comes and talks with us. Um I guess I'm a policy wonk >> and they say that I'm the nerd.
>> I know. Well, you know, we're all nerdy about different areas, but this got me so excited and and thank you for for Matt and Jane for making this for Matt, first of all, making it regional because that just really was helpful and there was a lot of good energy in the room and
um and and and Sharon was proven right time and time after G. So, so that's all good. Um none of that none of that's bad. And I appreciate the uh I don't know how you guys figured out who would attend, but I appreciate all of the effort. It was four hours and an excellent showing from the select board
as well. And um so some of the takeaways are that this is definitely a collaborative process um with the select board and the finance committee which makes sense because some of these policy decisions need to go through town meeting. We need to get their buy in. So that's that collaboration is always
good. Um uh and and I know I heard somebody say I'm not really that interested in like some of the operation stuff, but I think from as a selector member and having lived here for 30 years, I was like I
learned more about how some of the things operate and how the checks and balances, how we keep things organized than I ever have. So that was really useful from that perspective as well and also raised my anxiety a little bit because we talked about like
transitions. Um so one of the value value adds of having more policies and maybe extending existing policies in place is that it's a communication tool for bringing finance committee members up to speed for bringing select board
members up to speed for God love us if chairman ever decides to not work here anymore like it it it's so it's a it's a living document that helps um even within probably within the tunnel manager's office and within um Sharon's area now that your staff is a bit bigger
to just help get everybody on the same page. So, so I look forward to really like going through this a little bit more after you guys have had a chance and you know there were some examples like you know we could further define say um the policy exceptions like um like OPED
like this body and um we all agreed that we were going to when you're not in the distant past we were not going to fully fund it. So that actually could be in the policy that like you know what under what circumstances would we do that and I'm a big fan of some of the things that
Joe was talking about about the stability accounts. I think we really need some policies around where do we want that to be when do we fund it? When would we consider getting going into it? And then you know
here's another idea. Well, again, or you can and you can have exceptions. If this group in the select board were to, you know, spend a little time thinking about this, you might say a couple of years ago, we were in the opposite situation where you were like, "Oh, wow. I'd like
to budget conservatively, and there's nothing wrong with that." And then free cash came back like a lot bigger than you expected. It was posited that we could have a policy that says when a windfall shows up like that, you could put it somewhere, you could park it somewhere because
getting back to some of the other comments about how we allocate capital, I I worry and I worry when our free cash free cash like balance gets so high that we then start investing in capital
projects and then in the situation we're in now and it's not well, it's complex, But we vested a lot in capital and we're going to turn around and need to talk about um an operational override and we no longer have the free cash to support that. So that get keeps me up at night.
But um um one piece of advice that um TLS gave us or or said mentioned to me before we left was that you know wondering our free cash balances are so high and we're making a large contribution and and so we do it differently than other
people. But one way to get a handle on that which would be educational for the select board and perhaps you all or some of you is that what are all the inputs that go in and out of free cash the last couple years and maybe take them down a level from what we've been doing. So
because we do do things and some of them may be small. So I'm not we do do things differently than other towns. I've heard there have been requests to maybe um send some of the permitting funds from the conservation commission into a budget for the conservation commission. Now they're just going to free cash. And
I think I've heard um some other examples as well. But anyway, that was one suggestion to maybe um maybe do a little analysis on what on any given year what goes into free cash and just maybe take it to the next level because I know we we do some of that
already. But um thank you. Thank you for making that original event and thank you all who attended and um yeah, it's a lot of fun. I mean, we're we're gonna get there and I see this as a a precursor to a very difficult decision that we're going to have to make as a town. You know, whether we're going to have to
talk about bringing an override and what it's going to pay for and how big it's going to be. Thank you. I'm looking around for other hands. Well, thank you all very much for the comments and input and I look forward to sounds like Matt and Sharon have some
plans to look at some things, you know, please share with us, let us know how we can help. Um, and uh, yeah. >> How do you want me to, you know, do we want to take it in pieces? like I'll review a few and then maybe we schedule a meeting with the select board and come
so that they can hear you know is that something that would be I I think one of the things that I don't think they really addressed I think they kept saying the select board would approve all the policies but in some cases I that confused me because in some of our policies are fin approved some of them
are select board approved so that piece I'm not really the last time we did an update of the select board policies I did that a few years back with the select and it didn't cover all of the policies that Fincom has. So, I'm not sure what the where the line is drawn of who's
supposed to approve what policy. So, that's something we might need if help for because that piece was a little bit foggy for me in terms of why is it that this policy got approved by FINCOM and these ones went to select like I don't know where the line is drawn. Um, but I don't think it's a bad idea for both
Select Board and Financ to chime in as we update these policies and make sure that we're happy with what's in there. Um, and so I don't have a problem with this like meeting as a group and stuff. But I I do want every to kind of give me some guidance on who has to vote to put this into place or should it be both or
should it be what? Like I that's the piece I was kind of left still baffled with and I didn't get to ask. I figured I could ask it for you because I had a meeting budding right up after our meeting, so I had to go. So, >> yeah. No, I think that's a fair
question. It does seem like in other communities the policies were set by different boards than in our community. And I'm not sure if that's I mean, given that they're policies and not, you know, binding laws, there's no legal, you know, no one goes to jail if the
reserves go below 7%. Um, that we do have a very bad year. Um uh but the um yeah so you know in a sense they're all advisory. So my guess is it's probably a little bit loosey goosey but at the same time
we certainly don't want to have conflicting policies like no thank you. So yeah we should absolutely align on >> be separate. which is and that's fine. That's fine. Like you can take turns whatever like we can play nice
but uh yeah um no if there are any rules obviously we'd love to follow them so please do uh let us know. >> Okay cool. All right then in that case let's keep moving along on our agenda. Um so there's an item for birch meadow light
fixture failure replacement. So, speaking of capital failure, um we haven't had a meeting since November. So, uh this is a little bit old news, but I just wanted to bring this this board. This is FYI at this point. Um
just you know um but so if you missed the Daily Times Chronicle in late October uh the Nor Easter we had knocked one or two of the tolls clean off the lights light the uh soft the big softball field. Um very lucky no one was
there at the time. Could have been terrible. Um but no one was hurt. Everything was great. not great. But um so Jim Sullivan, the recreation administrator, worked with RMLD and DPW uh to go assess the situation, make sure
it was, you know, safety was the number one priority. Um and so four of the poles were damaged in the storm and had to be removed immediately. Once they were inspected, they were given a 30-day timeline to make sure that they were
out. Um and they had somebody come in and inspect the remaining poles that weren't damaged and they were all, you know, kind of a tilt and leaving. If you are down around that area, you know that those are old and probably past their useful life. So, um you know, due to the
safety concerns and the um inability for any of the remaining poles to actually hold any lights uh effectively or safely, they decide to remove everything under that emergency work order. Um, so the good thing was they worked with
existing town staff and DPW and RMLD uh were able to take it out the poles no cost to the town. So that was good. Um, there was some minor related electrical work to make sure no one got electrocuted. That was $540 um and they the town received a $25,000
insurance payment related to those pole failures. So that's been kind of set aside somewhere um toward to be put toward future lighting. So uh Jim worked with a vendor to get a quote to replace these four damaged poles. It came in
somewhere around there were few between 70 and $95,000 or so. Um but after talking it through with recreation committee and with other town staff, we decided that's not the way to go because uh you know enhanced lighting is part of
Mir Meadow Phase 3. Um but there is an operational impact for these being down. He's already reached out to all the people that use it in the summer and early fall, including men's softball league, uh youth soccer, youth lacrosse, youth football,
um and youth softball. Um, so everybody knows there's no lights for the foreseeable future. Um, but I wanted to put on this this uh committee's radar just because this is a potential, you know, unplanned capital expense that will be coming. Um, so Jim's in the
process right now of getting some quotes on what it will take to tie it into the new Musco lighting. So in parchment phase one and two, uh, we have Musco is the company that has done the lighting and they've they've set us up basically. So when phase 3 comes along, it's just
a, you know, tie into the the new grid that they put in. So um he's in the process of getting bids. We might see something maybe maybe fall town meeting, maybe next spring town meeting. So it's far off, but um you know, initial gut
check estimates are somewhere in the 3 to 500,000 range to kind of get these back online. Um so yeah, that's FYI. If you have questions, I've been talking to Jim for like four straight hours about this, so I can probably answer them and
if I can't, I can find out. So, >> do I get to call? >> Yep. I'll still call on people. Um Ouch. Okay. Um but yes. All right. Um >> Jackie, >> thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just a clarification question. You said that there were four that were damaged. Those
were taken out and then other ones were taken out and then there was a bid to replace the four damaged ones that came in at 75 to 90,000. >> Y >> is that only the four damaged ones and then the other ones would be put back or what's the
>> um So my understanding, but I can get clarification from Jim is that they just wanted to see what it would cost to put up new wooden similar poles that are required to light the field. So once they um did that initial you know those
the ones that were damaged that had to come down and they did the subsequent inspection that was all in the area too. So I think it included some in the castine side and um so I think the bid was only related to like getting lights back online on new wooden poles with the
existing bad light fixtures. Not bad. >> Um Joe and you I see I see Mark on Zoom but I think Joe you were raising Jeffrey already. So go ahead Joe. Just Emily, just to clarify, so FA are you saying in
phase three we had money allocated to replace these lights or >> so the birch motto m sorry um so there the birch meadow master plan um kind of set up you know what is the
ideal for birch meadow to look like over the next you know 10 to 15 years as they build it out. So phase one is was funded and completed. Phase two was funded and in process. Phase three is not even funded yet. Um it's just, you know, the
the vision of what we want and that includes lighting not only for the softball field there, but I think over at Morton and um by the little league field. So but it's visionary. It's not an actual thing. So um and I think on
the capital plan that's many many years out at this point. So, um, you know, I think they're hoping that this can come to town meeting, not obviously not this spring, that would be lunatic, but, um, maybe by next
spring so that they don't have to go multiple summers where we can't use the field in the way that it's been used historically. >> For some sports, can I can I assume they use those generator type lights? Are you looking at that or >> Yeah. So that's why he reached out to
all the the different leagues that use it to figure out what the options are, but um it won't work for men's softball. So it sounds like men's softball's off for this year. Um or they're going to have to find, you know, space in another town or something. >> Thanks,
>> Mark. >> Hey, Emily. Do you know there was a problem with those lights for softball not being high enough? Like are the new polls, are they planning to fix that issue? They're all down and at this point they're not planning to replace
them until they can do a better, more permanent um solution that aligns with, you know, the lighting solutions they have for phase one and two already. Um so everything now is down. It's all been taken down and removed.
I don't know if that answered you. A no night use >> no no no night use without the use of portable generators is for the foreseeable future can't think of anything >> yeah
I was my equip was going to be the only thing that the neighbors will like less than lights sound of the generators but um so yes all right um And I would imagine newer lights are probably better for light versions. There you go. All right.
Um, other comments, questions, or for that matter, quips? No. All right, let's move on to future agendas. Um, so the sort of elephant in the or the whole parade of elephants because
there's a school budget and there's the town budget and there's the town town meeting warrant. Um uh you know we have uh weekly meetings on the calendar starting on the 25th um with the school budget and presently the town budget following whatever that
is fourth fourth. Um but yes from today and that's how February works. Well it'll be the fourth. >> Um uh Mark has a hand up but you're muted. Uh Mark, you're muted.
>> Sorry about that. Um what would be nice for future agendas is sort of an update on where the bid processes are on all these capital projects we've got. Like we just you know we found out tonight about recalc and you know the you know tomorrow the bids will be in but it' be
nice to see you know where those other capital projects are at too. >> Sure. Sure. Yeah. We can bring those to a future meeting. >> Yeah. And I I'll catch up. That was I just missed the last meeting, but I'll have more on on kill. >> That's good.
We're certainly interested in both. All right. Um process. Um see, um Karen, I don't know if you wanted me to put you on the spot. You emailed me with some thoughts about about uh future agenda topics. Um I
could read your email or you could speak for yourself. Um >> um >> oh well you emailed me. Um >> how's your cats? >> Thank you. >> They're great. You did not actually ask.
>> Yes. No, you asked about the municipal empowerment act and about um >> yeah with the pleasure of the chair and you all. Um mun municipal empowerment act 2.0 is before the legislator legislature. um it does give you some flexibility to
potentially raise some revenue and provide some additional senior tax relief and mar income tax relief. So, I thought this committee might be interested to take a look at that where it's the second version. I'm going to wildly assume that, you know, there's some back and forth and this one has a
better shot of um passing. And then the other thing I came across because I was so excited about the TLS um seminar was handover had a committee and took a time to um come up with a whole bunch of OPED advisory committee recommendations,
thoughts and for the pleasure of the chair that might be an interesting discussion to this committee to have regards to our oped policy or reducing our potential liability. Um and and yeah, I did send that to Joe. So you can
share that with um everybody. That's it. Thank you. >> Thank you. So yes, so the the the challenge there is working those topics in because we have a pretty busy schedule over our next few meetings, but um we can take a look at how we're doing as we plan each week and see if we can
fit these things in. It sounds like maybe the discussion of the municipal empowerment act might be I I don't actually know the legislative calendar. to know if if we wanted to have any opinion on that expressing a delegation delegation or something what the time
frame we'd have to do that by. But um okay. All right. Obviously our our our number one job is the budget. That's what we're going to that's you know anything else we can get to in the next month is is bonus. Uh Joe, >> just quickly, um it's probably a
question from Matt, but for the budget, um from the town, if you could I'm not sure what your plan to present, I know it's pretty far away, but to make sure like counts included just get ahead of like the common questions we have and have standardized across department. And
I know what you did, but like I think some of the color commentary is helpful too. >> Yeah, that that's great. And my plan, I was going to ask this anyway if you if you wanted anything to change, but doing what we've done in prior years. So, department heads will come um it won't be a formal presentation. They've
already done that to the at the select board meetings, but they will sort of orally highlight some of the changes in their budget, some of their thinking around that, and then open it up for questions. And of course, any line that you have before you in the budget, um you can ask them questions on, they can
answer those questions. and headcount and you know things like that is something we include routinely in the budget document. Um so we'll be prepared to do that as well. Um and then we'll we'll work through it. We'll do we'll do a wrap up. You know any obviously suggestions you can let us know and then
we will close the budget out and get it ready to go to town meeting. Um in on the last on the second I think usually we do it in two night till the second night we'll also talk about war articles um and have you vote on those. putting the draft together now regarding those.
So unless there's any changes that's that's the way I think we've as long as I've been town manager and then before that because I was a department head um it seemed to work well this way. So thank you. >> I guess I should note we will actually
be I think uh the plan tendedly be the same as last year where because we are the charter obliges us to hold a public hearing on the budget. >> Yes. Um uh Jax reached out to me about when that should be I think that should be the >> what we did last year was it was the first night of the town budget presentation.
>> Um which that didn't make sense. Um and then we could presumably close the hearing then if we get through all the town budget presentation that night or um continue it if if we're doing more if we have having covered all the departments or what I sounds good.
All right. Anything else on the topic of future agendas? Right. Uh we have some minutes to review and approve November. I'll make a motion to approve the minutes from the November 5th, 2025
finance committee meeting as presented. >> Second. >> Thank you, Emily. Thank you, Joe, for the second. Uh, any other comments or questions before we vote? Seeing none, uh, let's go ahead and vote. Um, starting on Zoom, Mark
Yes. >> Uh Jeffrey, >> yes. >> John, >> yes. >> Ed, >> yes. >> Henry, >> yes. >> Emily, >> yes. >> Maryanne, >> yes. >> Uh Joe Mcdana, >> yes. >> And Joe Carneahan, yes.
>> Motion to second. >> Thank you, Emily. Thank you, Ed. Sorry. It was very close. Very close. All right. Um voting. Uh Mark, >> yes. >> Stephie, >> yes. >> John, >> yes. Ed, >> yes. >> Andre, >> yes. >> Emily, >> yes. >> Maryanne,
>> yes. >> Joe Mcdana, >> yes. >> And Joe Carneahan, yes. We are adjourned. I'll even use the shiny gavl.