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All right. Okay. It is after 7. We have quorum of at least one uh posted committees tonight. So, I'll go ahead and call the finance committee to order. I don't see any finance committee members on Zoom. So, I don't think I need to do a roll call,

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sir. Um, I see two select members on Zoom. So, I will uh let you all know if a third select member appears in the room here or anything like that. >> Yeah, we did see Karen around. So, reliable. And then for school committee,

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I see one two. Yes, that gets us to >> Oh, okay. All right. I see. Yes, Karen. So, um, uh, someone want to call the, uh, select order. We have

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>> What's that? >> Chris and Karen Roseillis. >> Karen, do you want to call it to order since you're in the room? >> Oh, uh, Karen Rose Gillis asked if you could call to order because you're in the room. >> That's fine. So, um, yeah, I'd like to

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call the writing select board to order. Um, Chris >> here. Darren. >> Yes. >> Karen Heric here. Thanks. >> All right. So, welcome everyone. Um, uh,

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the, uh, first order of business is an opportunity for public comment. Thanks for getting that in. Not the result of the agenda, but we do want to hear from the public. So, is do we have any public comment?

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Uh, I see Angela. Um, you want to say your name in street? >> I assume that we're working from microphones on the ceiling, which you are probably as close to as we are. >> I mean, speak clearly so you can be heard. That's all I ask.

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>> Okay. Thank you, Angela Orchard Park Drive and precinct 5 meeting number. Um, thank you town manager Wellman for the budget proposals that you put forward or uh and um and um CFO Angstrom for the work

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on the proposed budget. Um there are a couple things that I would like to talk about. Um the first one is with administrative services um on page five and the boards and

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committees are once again this year um asking for money. I was I was completely dismayed when the board's committee's commission appeared before the select board for requests and um the ching of a a a staff member for a request for

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$2,000 for a bench for mallet zones. Um and basically telling him, "Sorry, it's broken. You're just going to have to repair it." Um last year, select board members also um build the trails committee. They couldn't have a couple

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thousand dollars for materials for boardwalks and repairs. Passive recreation is still recreation and it is the recreation of choice for a large number of residents. It seems that there's no limit to the amount of money

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that we will spend on sports if it involves a court or a field or a floor. But regarding walking in town forests, boards, benches, and conservation areas, it seems that there is no request too

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small that the town cannot say no to if it's for passive recreation. So, I know that this is um the town manager's preliminary budgets. I would hope that like on page five and six that even if

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there are cuts even if or even if you know the the override doesn't pass or whatever to really consider that how much these small asks can make to to these committees. um and and think of the millions and

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millions and millions we spend year after year to year for sports and and the little amount for people who recreate in the town forest and our natural areas. And then the other thing that I'm asking you to also is on page

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seven 55,000 for elder and human services programming. I think that the programming um I know Reading has always done what they could with the money that they've had, but I do know that other towns have much larger budgets for elder

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and human services programming. And I see that in the level two it gets cut back and then the override it goes all the way down. So I know that these are preliminary budgets or you know their asks. Nothing is set in stone yet. It's

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still early in the process, but I'm asking the finance committee to, you know, consider the highest level for for these things for the elder and human services programming. There are some,

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you know, there there is a money barrier that will keep some elder people from the senior center um from the new recal. And I and I want the availability to be there. And I hope that you know we are

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really thinking about equity um in in what services we provide, what rec recreational activities we provide to uh all town all town residents. So >> thank you.

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>> Thank you. >> Any other public comments? Chris. >> Oh, yes. Chris, please go ahead. >> Thank you, Joe. Chris Haley, 71 Tennyson

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Road. Um, I just want to correct the record on the $2,000 bench asterisk that was still covered under warranty. I will not be giving $2,000 to anybody to replace items that are covered. I don't

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care if they're benches, playgrounds, hockey equipment, uh a snowblower, it's under warranty. Get it replaced under warranty. That's all I got. Thank you. >> Thank you.

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Any other comments? >> If I hand the virtual gavvel over to the town manager from your organization? >> Yes, I'd be happy. Gh. Next one. Can we steal one? >> All right. All right. All right.

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>> So rare. >> I know. I know. It's so rare. I didn't get No. Thank All right. Well, we're here for the reorganization. Um, do I hear any nominations for >> I have I nominate Emily?

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>> Second. >> Are there any other nominations for chair? >> How about say I will nominate Mar second. SO, DO YOU WANT NEVER MIND. >> SO, and we have and we have a second.

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>> Um, Emily, do you accept the nomination? >> I don't feel like I have a choice not to. I mean, I don't think that's how it works. I think you always have a choice. I would very much prefer not to, but it pressed into service.

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>> Why would you prefer not to? I am in uh a very busy season of my life and I'm working 60 to 70 hours a week as it is. Um and I don't feel I be able to do the do the role justice that I would want to

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for the next three to six months and I feel like that's a really busy and important time for us to be doing this. However, if there's really no one else who's willing, I would be friendly. You could delegate heavily to whoever be your vice chair.

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>> Well, I was going to say I'm willing to be vice. I mean, I'm willing to be chair, but I thought since you were vice it would be I I said to myself, I'll be chair one of This is my last three year ter of them. So, it doesn't matter which of the three years, but I I'm better

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this year. Last year, I didn't have time. I don't have that much time this year, but it's better than last year. So this this year is just very it's going to be difficult for me to do it well. But we tag

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make better is an important year. >> It's an important year and I just want to make sure that I can give it the the time and attention that it's going to require. So >> I mean I I I will accept the nomination.

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help people open their hands. [laughter] >> Would you accept vice chair? >> I would absolutely accept vice chair. >> So now we're accepted. >> Can we make discuss or have questions? >> Yeah. Um, so, um, I am

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I'm just going to ask because I had kind of an had something of an experience the last time I was reappointed. So, I would like to hear how each of you feel about reappointing uh, you know, committee members in good standing. >> I'm I'm absolutely about that. I mean,

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and I define good standing as attending meetings. So, that's what I would that's what I would go by because and it's people have personal things going on in your life, but We don't meet that often other than in budget season. So if you can't commit to it, maybe this isn't the board for you.

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>> Yeah. >> But that's just my feel. >> Very very similar. President reappointing. >> Mostly I just don't want to vote for someone who's going to not reappoint me any [laughter] >> you've demonstrated. I mean you you look

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at the spreadsheets and you've been chair like your commitments. >> I had a bad experience. >> I think what's going to happen is is after this year because we're the people that gets that decide how much free cash to use. There's a lot of pressure on all

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of us and depending on how people in the community feel about the override and what how much it should be there's going to be that much more pressure. So, we all have to have steady heads about this because it's going to be hard. Are there any other questions for the nominees?

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>> So, we nominate chair nominees I think technically accepted difficulty. >> We have a race. >> So, we got a vote. >> I'm going to call for the vote. If there are no more questions

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we mess this up every year though call vote and you choose who you want. >> Choose who you want. >> Jack will take a list. >> Okay. >> Yeah, that makes sense. >> We have two nominations. >> We'll do it. >> We do it differently. That's

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>> how we do it. >> This is different. This is >> all right. I'm going to um >> you'll text you'll text Laura again and she'll say, "Yeah, this is cool." [clears throat] >> All right. Okay. Um

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>> you need a list of finance committ. >> No, I uh I need a motion to call for the vote for the chair of finance. All right, we'll do a roll call vote and just say who you're who you're voting

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for. Which of these five nominees will lead you in the future? >> Your hands >> John >> Chris >> appreciate Emily your honesty. I was running to vote for you for chair but it doesn't seem like I want to disappear. So I will vote for

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>> excited to vote for Mary. Uh, Emily >> Maryanne >> I guess me. Congratulations. >> All right. So, do we have any nominations for vice chair? >> Second.

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>> Any any discussion? Emily, are you willing to serve? I serve as vice >> chair vast experience as vice chair. Yes, really good at being the vice chair. Maybe I don't know. >> So, start taking notes.

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I will just do a conventional. Have we all been done with discussion, Jackie? >> So, I will do a roll. >> We need a motion, I think. >> All right. All right, I'll just go around the room. Joe, >> yes. >> Andre,

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>> yes. >> John, >> yes. >> Chris, >> yes. >> Joe, >> yes. >> Emily, >> yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. Eight. No. 97.

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Okay. >> Did send mess. Yes. No, he's traveling. He's traveling to work. >> Um Oh, yeah. >> Should we make up a new bowl like secretary or something? >> Make the motion.

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>> So now I got to get I got to get to the agenda. >> Okay. Thank you. I get them not bringing in charge. So we have hope to reorganize and I guess we can start with leazison reports and maybe by the end of the

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meeting we can do more on assignments. So does anyone want to volunteer a liazison? So CPDC met on Monday and reorganiz but uh they're working on drafting uh updates to the bylaw for the ADU

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bylaw to come to state regulations that should be >> uh that should be ready for fall time meeting and also uh eastern updates the zoning by eastern gateway Okay. >> I mean, I can volunteer. I watched the

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select board last night. We have a member here that can probably elaborate, but my conclusion, and I missed the very end of your discussion, was I don't think you guys were a unanimous endorsement for November override. was a lot of discussion about November versus

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the spring. I'm not sure. Did you can you tell me did [clears throat] you conclude anything? >> We didn't. I actually thought there was this was going to be a second level discussion. We kept it high level on purpose. So, this isn't really a great format to do that in. I thought it was going to be like the last. So, we we

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discussed um the important points keeping it simple for the voters because this is complex. >> Oh, you you stole my next update. But no, no, I'm kidding. you explain. >> Okay. So, we we just talked about keeping it simple. Um,

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>> so it's kind of the opposite of this. >> Oh, well, this is good. I mean, this is good, but >> Well, this is true. This is not going to fit in the bag as your glasses, but they so I we appreciate all of the efforts that the the permutations that the town

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manager and CFO have come up with our options and and I expect you all to discuss them at well as well and for instance we thought three generally three options on the ballot might be too much and we had to bring them into versus one or two um we discussed sort

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of so that's tiered and then we discussed also options that we have through >> that are in our memo. >> Okay. >> Yes. Phasing it in and and we had a a really deep discussion worth watching

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about the three at least three very hard years coming up and you know including what people have already seen on their tax bills are all for really good reasons but they're not going to be you're going to see significant tax increases or or we're going to see 67 positions cut like as identified in the

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red. I think that's okay. >> And just the only other unrelated update, I'm just checking the name. I think her name is Brena. You guys appointed a new board of library trustees member. We'll also have to have a new role to help manage the [clears throat] library trustees budget.

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I'm sure there were other other discussions, but that was the major stuff I Oh, and Chief Clark is retiring. >> I haven't heard that. But he recommended Detective Gamandola. >> Deputy Chief, I'm sorry. Yes. As as as

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to be, you know, on the list for his replacement and it was such an impressive list that they read about her. She's a bronze star winner and all these all these things. I think she would be the first woman chief of police in our town, too. >> So, she's just, you know, great person.

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So, good luck to her. >> What's that effect? >> I think he said May. That's right. So that's just all I have for that meeting. Um, oh, and I guess we have a school committee member in person here could could fill me in. See, I'm already

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buying my people. But when I listened to the override discussion in your school committee meeting, um, and Dr. Turner is here on the call also. What I got a sense from his discussion in the schools is that the schools maybe do not feel

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like they've had enough input into this override process yet. Would you say that that's correct Dr. Turner, if you want to speak that we, you know, we've kind of been just in you weren't officially

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superintendent yet, but then um I I I don't know the discussion I heard was you all wanted to weigh in more on what the schools need and not necessarily for example to include conclude 100k a

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position like you mentioned that and I think John Wise said well there's some people that achiever and some people more expensive. So, it's not as simple as it was made to sound. Do you if you guys have any input you want to add just about your meeting?

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>> Sure. >> Sure. Thank Thank you for Thank you for for asking. Um uh I I'll say that um time manager Wellman's been extremely collaborative in um on on boarding me and we've we've met uh prior to uh my

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start with uh uh Dr. Milichesky um in our finance team. Um uh as you as you uh mentioned in our school committee meeting um our I [clears throat] stated that our team's been uh working at this uh every day since I on boarded on July

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1st. Um we'll be um working with our principles uh on uh uh right now in terms of uh uh planning with a presentation for our school committee. Uh I believe that we've um announced that a school committee meeting will be on Thursday in which we'll be giving a

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presentation to to the school committee um outlining uh some of their questions um regarding um what uh cuts could look like uh in uh the school on the school side um if the override does not pass. I

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think um the presentation that uh town manager man um town administrator um Wellman will be will be giving we've we've been uh briefed on it and um as I said it's been very collaborative and we understand sort of the positions that um

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[clears throat] uh are in the slide for depending on your decisions um and uh we'll be making some recommendations uh over time with the school committee um and getting their feedback on it. Yeah, that's that's good. And the other thing I I note on that sorry I think it

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was my school was Aaron Gaff points out how specific you have to be and I think that that also applies to the town side that the public will respond to seeing specific things even if they seem hard because people can visualize the impact

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and I we're going to get to it but I'm grateful that Roman got very specific on this reading glasses chart. Sorry. No, that's okay. So, thank you. I think we So, that is um

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on boards and now we have a reserve transfer request that I believe was related to the animal control officer. Sharon, do you want to elaborate on that? So at the end of last fiscal year um we had we used to have a regional um

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animal control officer through Wakefield and at the end of last fiscal year that um that relationship ended and we able to do it on our own. Um we had already built the budget for fiscal 27 with $22,000 in the expense line because it

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was a regional situation. Um, now we're looking at potentially making a full-time decision, moving that 22,000 to the salary line. It also got moved from the health department to the police department, but that's all part of public safety as well, but it is in the

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expense line right now. So, what what we're asking for is the equivalent of 60 well 47,000 to cover the $69,000 full-time positions. We were not getting a response for the part-time position. we entertained a lot of different

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options for looking at doing it as um you know a W like a W2 or W9 and you know unless it's full time I don't think we're making fun. So, we're requesting $47,000 in the next town meeting. I'll move 22,000 from that

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expense line up to the salary line so that we can hire fulltime questions. >> So, there's 69,000 to the annual salary. >> It is. Yeah, it's the annual salary estimate. Previously, we ran an inter municipal agreement with Wakefield.

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Yeah. And um the animal control officers at the time when they were asked for some minor minor information from the new town manager there um they up and quit um and cancelled the inter municipal agreement and so that created

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a lot of um you consternation and difficulty and so forth. So, uh, moving it to the police department, it'll be a 32 a 32-hour position >> and, um, we'll be able to do more with that position than we weren't able to

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before. So, that person will be able to go into the town forest and do some educational efforts and, you know, on our trails regarding dogs, um, uh, be a backup parking officer, that kind >> enforcement. So seeing we're already

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into this fiscal year. When do you anticipate this hire happening as soon as possible? >> But we'll probably So this year if it comes in at in that amount, we'll probably be short on how much we spend this year. >> Yeah, we'll be a little bit under that

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that annualized salary >> but not by much. >> So my question Sharon, you mentioned moving 22,000 for expenses. Sorry line at town meeting I assume. The plan would be as we usually do to

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>> the 47,000 from free cash >> or wherever we have you know be anywhere else we won't necessarily take it from free cash but >> I remember the F2 I'm not expecting you to find a lot of >> I'm not the numbers right now

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there's a number also too we work the health insurance um agreement and we had already built the budget. So there's probably some additional money in health insurance that we can um if we need to because we built it based on what they told us it would be before we the agreement. So

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there is some access there. So I don't anticipate that relative. That's awesome. My question, the level of service you were getting from Wakefield. Was it that a full bank position or was it a part? >> It was a part time. It was kind of

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almost on calls. Yeah. And so we were paying sort of an on call fee for this sort of the weekends and it was just a really inexpensive option. We cannot recreate >> um and and inappropriate.

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And I have no idea about this line of work, but do you anticipate you getting applicants? You can do part time positions. >> We posted it as a partition. >> We we received some um we did not build

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that we had the candidate that we um and then uh we have received some other recent applications. So um since we've moved it over police department there it's going to be u deput chief amadola be in charge

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of that hiring um so and she is at a prestigious uh school right now for three weeks working on this. Okay. Any other Chris, you had a question. >> I didn't see you.

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>> I know. Is it the 69? Is that fully loaded like like pension? >> No, that's just the salary. >> So, >> but also we have extra in our benefits line. You know, benefits is all kind of different benefits. pension, life

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insurance, health insurance, all of that in the benefits get access within it >> because before it wasn't a benefit position, correct? Like part time? >> No, it was it was in it was like so

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employee. So like the cost is really on it like 25 35% more >> with with like >> oh if you call it yeah probably above that fully voted with health

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>> I'd say 20% insurance >> okay and then um I know this is easier said than done but could we go the other way and regionalize this it sounds like there is need >> that regionalize it Well, not once we have a full-time position.

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>> No, I already tried to reach >> but no one else is looking for part time. >> So, some communities have regional arrangements already, but they're kind of full or the territory is too large. Um, other towns weren't interested in

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sharing who they have right now. But I think she is speaking to me post >> next >> question. So Jour is non benefited that's not a member of the pension system or do you offer health insurance to even pay?

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>> No, they would be benefited at 32 hours. Have they benefited the pension system? >> 32. >> I talked to the chief 32 but then jumping system. >> Um what are you doing right now with animal control? There's a

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>> animal control the designated animal control officer and so police department is responding to >> the last two fiscal years. Has the police personnel line out and be fully expensed or has there always been a little bit left over at the end years? So could this be absorbed just through

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the natural fiscal 27 process? >> You talking about the expense line of this person is going to be an employee. So last two fiscal years has the police personnel line been fully spent or has there been any extra >> expended

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understand what you're asking. >> Yeah. >> Can I just ask one question? You said they would serve as a backup parking enforcement. So does that require special different training than um an animal control? I mean it would require

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some training on the equip on the you know devices nothing ownorous at all. The animal control officer has specific required state training. >> Um so that and they have a year if somebody Uber hires somebody doesn't

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have it then they would have a year to get it. Um, so you would hope to hire somebody. >> I beg your >> I said I heard that. >> Um, any further discussion? >> What happened?

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>> What happened to the person? It was two people uh sharing one job somehow in another community and they they were asked some question response

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came out the same way and they would they continued working for us sort of for DM but um that did not interested >> they're not interested in um one

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position they demanded wanted to be both hired. Um and so yeah. Yeah. I'd rather not go down that road. >> Yeah. So um

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their service to the town services they were responsible to the town but they were limited in what they could do with it came up at town meeting frequently with you know enforcement of leash laws and so you know how many dogs in town boards but those conversations

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we were never able to adequately manage Anything else? So, do we have a motion uh motion to approve the $47,000 transfer from

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the final questions? Okay. Um, I guess we're all here and no one's online, so we can just do a show of hands. All in favor? All three. >> Thank you. Okay, so the next item on the

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agenda is the um star of the show here, I guess, or maybe there's two stars of the show. um discuss override options and vote on recommended override amounts. But seems what goes hand in hand with that would be discussion on budget cuts and free cash use usage. Um

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and I think in the packet the town manager has part of this she would like to present. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes. Um I'm going to read into the record and for the public benefit u the memo that I've sent tonight to um all of our boards, committees, and commissions uh in your

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finance in your income packet. Um, regarding this, I think this lays out where we're at right now. >> Can you read that? [laughter] >> Okay. >> Thank you. So, reading faces a significant and escalating structural

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deficit, $6.47 million in FY27, rising to 9.8 in FY28 and reaching 11.4 4 million in FY by FY32. The proposed FY28 operating budget assumes the passage of a Proposition 2 and a half override to maintain stable services and avoid

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severe reductions. Without an override, the town would need to revise the FY28 budget, implement broad service cuts beginning in FY28, and make substantial deeper reductions in FY29 to achieve a balanced budget. The deficit has been driven by years of increasing reliance

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on free cash, stagnant departmental budgets, and substantial post-pandemic cost inflation across labor contracts, utilities, waste management, health insurance, other core expenses. Free cash regeneration has now inverted, leaving the town unable to rely on reserves without jeopardizing its

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long-term financial stability and bond rating. To address FY28 needs, I'm asking or recommending a $6.5 million override supplemented by three million in free cash tied directly to the capital plan. If the override fails,

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approximately 67 municipal and school positions would be eliminated. Capital investments, including an ambulance purchase, would be deferred and major service reductions would affect every department. The library would lose Sunday hours and face staffing reductions severe enough to risk almost

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certainly risk state to certifications resulting in the loss of aids and inter library borrowing privileges. The choices ahead will shape writing's fiscal health and service levels for years. Clear understanding and thoughtful engagement across boards, community staff and residents are essential as the community considers how

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best to preserve the high quality services and financial stability it values. So this memo accompanies the FY28 budget presentation and outlines the significance of a proposition 2 and a half override request. The proposed FY budget assumes the override successful passage allowing Rey's operating budget

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to grow at a modest and sustainable rate. If the override fails, the budget must be revised and resubmitted to govern body and ultimately by town meeting for July 1, 2027. Our current fiscal picture

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faces a substantial and growing structural deficit. For FY27, the deficit is 6.475 million, increasing to 9.8 million FY28 and continuing to escalate through FY29 and FY30. By FY32,

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our projections indicate that the deficit will reach 11.4 million. To remain within current appropriations, I'm instituting a hiring increase immediately, prioritizing public safety and essential services. This year will represent a more austere budget environment than FY26.

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Should the override not pass, service reductions begin in FY28 intensified significantly and FY29 to meet those required cuts. Nearly all municipal departments and the ready schools will face reductions in staffing and services.

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So why do we face structural deficit? Over several years, Reading has increasingly relied on free cash to balance the operating budget. Although the town's last override in 2018 was modest at 4.15 million, smaller than the $4.5 million override 15 years earlier,

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it lasted almost nine years due to strong reserves and temporary pandemic related funding of CAR's act. However, that longevity came at a cost. Department budgets have been essentially level funded for multiple years and cannot keep pace with postpandemic inflation. Rising costs affect all labor

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contracts, utilities, fuel, waste disposal with our new recycling trash collection contracts 39.5% uh 39.5% increase employee health insurance and more. Um, an additional item I'm adding here

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at Living is um, the state has um, terribly underfunded municipalities uh, in multiple ways since the Great Recession. It hasn't adequately when you when you uh, account for inflation.

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So, what's free cash? Everybody in this room knows what free cash is. People at home may not know what free cash is. And free cash is a terrible term, but it's part of our reserves. Free cash is certified annually by the department of revenue and includes unspent departmental funds, interest income, and

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local receipts. Most of our reserves reside cash along with the town's $2 million stabilization fund. Free cash can be appropriated simple majority local town meeting where stabilization fund reserves require a twothirds vote.

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An important distinction in planning budget solutions. Beginning in 2023, Burden's ability to regenerate free cash reversed. The town now regenerates less free cash annually than it uses to balance the budget. This is unsustainable and risks depleted

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reserve, a downgraded bond rating, and higher borrowing costs. Path forward to restore fiscal balance. I propose tying any use of free cash directly to the capital budget consistent with writing's longestablished policy of investing 5%

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of the operating budget annually capital and debt service. In FY27 we reduced uh capital and debt to 4.5%. Funding agencies have consistently recognized this discipline approach as a strength helping reading maintain

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healthy infrastructure and stable financial standing. However, excessive reliance on free cashes disrupt that balance, necessitating structural correction. For employ 28 with an anticipated structural deficit of roughly 10 million, I am asking the select board and the finance committee

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and the community to consider a $6.5 million override paired with $3 million in free cash and additional savings achieved through attrition and organizational restructuring. Without the override, cuts to staffing, services, and capital would be

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significant. Current estimates show approximately 67 positions across the mun municipal and school departments would need to be eliminated. This number would increase if recash were not used to support the capital plan. Projects funded through prior debt

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exclusions including kilum elementary school and recal be affected by an unsuccessful override. They were approved previously by public. Anticipated impacts entailed override. Service reductions would be widespread.

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uh including well beginning in FY208 accelerating sharply in FY29. Major departments police, fire, public works, schools, and the library would experience largest cuts due to the scale of their budgets. Smaller departments such as community development, building, finance, health, town clerk's office

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would also face reductions in staffing and hours. Townwide operational functions including human resources, legal, information technology, and facilities would see decreased training, weakened cyber security efforts, delayed maintenance, and reduced custodial services.

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Capital expenditures would be reduced further, including deferral of nearly a million dollars in planned FY27 capital projects and ambulance purchase and associated equipment of people's phone. As part of that, the library would also close on Sundays and base staffing cuts severe enough to jeopardize its

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certification. Notably, we only have to cut a little more than $26,000 in staffing from the library to risk their descertification because their budget is so narrow. Losing certification would end state

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aid, eliminate access to grants, and prevent borrowing from neighboring libraries such as Wakefield Stone and Velvets in the field. Over time, municipal service levels would necessarily contract to core functions resulting in diminished community engagement activities and a

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reduced quality of non-essential services. So, in closing, writing stands at a critical juncture. These decisions ahead will determine our ability to maintain valant services, protect financial stability, and preserve the community character residents expect. My

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commitment is to continue providing transparent datadriven analysis and to work collaborative collaboratively across all boards, committees, and staff. I urge all stakeholders to engage thoughtfully in the work ahead as we make choices that will shape writing's future for years to come.

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>> So that is my TSA. And we can move into this chart. >> Yeah. >> Even better. even.

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>> Okay. So, the the purpose of this chart um as as we added things to it, the fonts necessarily got smaller and smaller. So, um we should have permanently printed this on 9 by 11 by 14. Um but I want to take folks through

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kind of what happens if we don't pass N. Um, so previously you and I even said it last night at the select board meeting, we were looking at 74 positions. When Sharon and I sat down and talked about it again, I cut more um more capital in

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a no override budget. So it was like 3.989 brought that budget down to $3 million. And so that is to save more positions. Um, and so that's now it's also important to note these numbers are fully loaded. This is an estimate. So

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it's the equivalent of 67 positions. What does that mean? We have done an estimate and we work with the school uh department staff and Dr. Validate this um but an average salary is about $85,000 and 15,000 in benefits

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and then uh what was it for? >> 33,000 33,000 per position. Okay. So, uh the these numbers are fully loaded. When you have to pay unemployment, you have to lay off more

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people to pay for it, which is terrible, but that's that's how the math works. So, um when if we unfortunately if we have to come to this to this action, um the specific numbers the specific position change what that number looks

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like for business to give folks an understanding of the scale that we're looking at. Um, under this no override scenario we've presented to you, it is our hope that the finance committee would recommend 3 million free cash of what we have left to um we would not

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recommend any more than 3 million because that would be tied to capital budget and if we did that then we could it would be about 67 positions. If we were to not use any free cash or less, that number would only rise.

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In administrative services, we would be cutting uh the boards and committee funding back to $20,000 where it is now. In community services, elder and human services programming would remain at 13,000. Elder and human services meals would be at 15,000. We

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would not hire a therapeutic instructor. Um, and we would eliminate the volunteer coordinator position in DPW. We cut weekly recycling to bi-weekly. Notably, it's also going to be bi-weekly in the 6.5 million. Uh we will cut parks improvements that's

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in the capital plan. We will cut fencing capital. We will eliminate the assistant town engineer position is currently vacant by holding it vacant. Um and we will remove trash beds from parks fields. That would save us a season.

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Under facilities, we will cut one new maintenance staff member and one custodian for our new building. Um, in fire department, we will cut an ambulance purchase and associated equipment and a simulation management. These are under health. We will reduce road

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mitigation 30,000. In the library, we will cut Sunday hours jeopardizing certification. In the police department, we will cut overtime $200,000. We will cut one cruiser. Um, as you know, we usually place two cruisers annually set up to

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one and reduce the crossing guards budget by $20,000. The school department, they have a $97,000 community priority that's built into the uh the $6.5

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uh level two budget. That brings the school department budget to a 5.25 budget percent budget. Um if there was no overright, they would lose that. Um and then the school department budget would grow.

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Um plus all the cuts that we have. Um and [clears throat] then the technology, we would cut Microsoft licenses, we would cut wireless devices, and we would cut it support for night meetings um and even support.

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So, if the $6.5 million override were to pass, this is a partial restoration of services. I would still reduce positions on the town side, three to five positions on the town side. Um, we would still need to use three to$3.3 million in free cash to augment that budget. Um,

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but then again, that would be tied to your capital plan. Um, and we would maintain services across the town. We would restore the board and committee funding to $25,000. We would increase elder and human services programs to $43,000. We would increase the meals to $25,000.

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Uh we would hire a part-time therapeutic reconstructor for $33,000. And we would restore the volunteer coordinator position. CPW would uh continue to have recycling bi,000. Uh we would restore the parks

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improvements, the fence improvements, the assistant town engineer position could be filled and we would restore trash bins and parks and fields in facilities. We would hire two new two new maintenance staff and two new custodians to staff the buildings um and

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manage um all that square footed well over a million. >> Yeah, they're over a million now. Um we'll restore the ambulance and associated equipment purchases simulation mannequin restore road mitigation to $50,000. Library will stay

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open on Sundays um and maintain the certification. The police department uh will restore the overtime will restore their second reserve and their proc $20,000. The schools will u have their community priority in the budget so that

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their budget 5.25 25 um% increase and then in technology we will restore Microsoft licenses, restore wireless devices, restore some support for 19. Now we went through an exercise um to see what would it take to

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eliminate the structural deficit for short financial and so that number is $11 million. And the way we get there is we add in this budget here [clears throat] we add $1.2 2 million in services that were

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requested that we did not that I did not fill in the level two budget and we reduced the uh free cash that would be used. So that that brings us to $11 million. So there would be no cuts to services expenses or personnel. There would be no free cash usage in the first

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year following the override. We would maintain services across the town to preserve financial health and our AAA bond rating. Community services I would increase some programming there and their meals. Um, and we would hire a full-time therapeutic recreation instructor. For DPW, we would restore

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weekly recycling and hire two laborers. Um, DPW has requested some laborers to help with um, highway, which plowing, snow removal, um, and all the work that highway does throughout the year and also um, people who will be working on

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the buildings in and around the new building. Um, and the fire department has requested four new firefighters, which will help decrease overtime. And the police department, I would add, hired three new police officers, which again

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would help increase our time. Um, and those would probably be on at night to achieve. So, these are these are examples of how how we would get to 11 million. This we can reduce that. Um but the most important thing is to have the

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override last us to FY32. That's the goal. Um it is to reduce a reliance on free cash usage to to supplement the operating budget. Um again I'm proposing that we have a

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policy that we do not exceed capital the capital budget um with our with our free cash support in the budget. So they are tied onetime monies to one time expenditure. Um and when in the future future boards

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and and the town understands the numbers getting too high we understand that's a signal changes. Um questions and um so just to be obtuse green is yellow

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plus right correct everything. Yeah exactly. Um, and so I guess a couple of specific questions. What does it look like without OT? I know that's been a major issue, you know, not major issues. They've had a

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lot of OT past couple years for variety of reasons. Um, if there's no OT in the budget and we get to, you know, month 11, 10, 11, and there's no OT time left, are we is there just no service? like it

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just so I had this conversation with the chief um with all of the department heads but u particularly with the ones we are experiencing and so unlike the snow and ice you know budget where you can you can go over um but as we did

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this year um I have said it's July you need to manage your overtime now because this is this is the austere year FY27 FY28 if there's no over worse But um I've said I don't want you to have an

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ethic of we're going to go back to finance committee and ask for this. We're going to go to um town meeting and ask for this. If that means you have to pull people off the road, you have to pull people off the road. It means um reduced training. Um it means you know

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stacking calls. They're already stacking calls. They will continue to stack calls. So, it will be a reduced a reduction in the level of service of people who are accustomed to. It's interesting to note that the police department has had a staffing study done since before Jordan's furniture was

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built. They are doing that work now. Yeah. No, I said, "Wow, maybe we should do that now, but you can't hire a consultant to do it. So, figure it out." Um, so and they are they are working on that, but um you know, we have more people that

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live in the community. We have a lot more traffic accidents in the community than were prior to Jordan's furniture being built. It's not related to that, but you know, there's there's just a lot more calls for service. And so if we're taking cars off the road, that's going

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to have an impact. So the three officers here, when I spoke with the police chief about this, again, it's a proposed requirement. um you would put them on the night shift because during the day we have um detectives that are in the in the building that can you jump in and do

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more day officer but at night we don't have that so that answer >> it does um and then in ter I know you said you know 67 positions kind of place it approximate um do you have a sense of

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would the community basically schools just make it fit for community priority volume like whatever 970 >> 917. Yeah. >> Um and you know so would we expect there to be

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additional cuts on top of that 97 school side or is that just kind of >> it would be the 917 plus the positions plus positions. >> Understood. >> Yeah. Plus positions. >> Okay. >> So yeah and we'll we have a little bit

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more detail about that in Sharon. Okay. Well, I mean, so I was going to ask about I mean on the long run to understanding what the what having cutting the community priority means I would say you $100,000 a position approximately. That's nine positions

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approximately. >> But then that's 9 plus 367 or whatever. >> Um >> if you chase that number. >> Yes. Yeah. That's the So you're looking at at um par parents of kids in the schools are of course going to be concerned about that number in

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particular. >> That's a shared number just so we're very clear. Yeah, >> it is a shared number. We have not decided on an aortionment how that would be determined between the towns. We'll have a little bit of a conversation about that later. Yes, >> I'm I'm not asking you what are the

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three to five positions side on $6.5 million. I appreciate the time in that. >> Um, so yeah, but I wonder if there like is I mean I don't know if this is a sharing question, a bill question, a

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turn question, but like what's the what exactly the 917 community priority mean? >> Um, I'm going to ask Sharon to explain that charge. So when we met the school department

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trying to determine what this budget would look like asked them do you have anything that you need to add or what is that budget look like they gave us a 5.25% budget just for level services not add any positions or anything that so I

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had planned on a 3.75 so in order to get them there the difference between a 5.25% 25% budget and 3.75% budget is that $917,000. So it's not adding anything. It's just trying to keep maintaining what they're what they're doing. They don't have any

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teachers or anything in that number. And so they would need to pay if we didn't get that right because that 917 can't be afforded because possibly. So there's no it's not tied to it's just their regular >> and they gave us kind of some of the

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background. They were estimating 3% cola across the board and then 6% for paras are very much underpaid and so they they know so there's some estimates there that might need to change in terms of what they do do for

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polas but that's what they came to the table kind of just you know bottom up figuring out what I have right now if we did a 3% steps all the stuff we normally do what would it really cost us and that's what they came back Joe, [clears throat]

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>> it's more just um like is this circulated and you build this out like to me it might help like for people that are close to it like what's DHS right >> just know like any time you have like the acronyms but like the 917 trying to figure out a way to put that in a couple

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words because like that >> I feel like the fact that something is a community priority versus the school department budget just again that's kind of an implementation detail >> it's just in general intent to have the same operating budget so to give the school something more than the town is

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getting that's good >> don't think >> we'll just say we're it's a it's a a 97 >> cut to the school department >> and the other thing too is like full disclosure like we're We're cutting the

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purchase of a new ambulance in a new cruiser. Correct. We're not taking one off the road. >> We're deferring the purchase of what we would be. >> Yes. I think it'd be good to >> I know it doesn't help sell it as much, but just to be really clear.

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>> We want to be very clear and fair because this is what I promise you. >> If I say I'm going to cut it, I'm going to cut it. >> Yeah. >> I'm not This is not a tactic. It's not a jane. Whenever I've come before a town

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meeting or any boards in the town and I promise you something, I will keep my word and if I say I'm going to restore it, I will restore it. You know, depending on what time you're in the closer group, you know, but that is my promise. It is we have been asked to be

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transparent, I will be transparent. I my my my my ethics and my word are very important to me and you know I take it very personally so I will be honest and as forthright and transparent with everybody as I can

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>> and I know Sharon has to say >> I wanted to add something general that 5.25 25 was built with expectation of a certain level in full step. None of these um unions have contracts fiscal 28. So there's some flexibility there.

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So you know I mean they're they're probably building it what they'd ideally like to see and if there's no override that would very different I would guess. Well I think I think there the school department's number of% is >> it is not it is not extravagant. Um and

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you know >> but in a no correct um so yeah and and the school committee is responsible for their their collective bargaining and we are also in all of our

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>> just one one other thing probably >> that's okay you finish it's really back to your memo which which I do do like Jane but the part about the debt exclusions Like technically the operating costs would would be impacted if you think about

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>> Yes, you're correct. The operating cost >> it's just the way it's like word it sounds like it's >> that's helpful. I appreciate that. That's really help that those costs build full year to build

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all those things and that's full year even if they're not going to be there the full year just to bring up the baseline. So I think fiscal 28 >> No, no, you're you're right. But I think the point that he's making is >> I can close recal for the week is and I

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can shorten the hour. So and I will because if I can only hire one custodian to service them, but right now Pleasant Street Center and Town Hall are serviced by one custodian and the police department and the fire department is one custodian between the buildings.

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Okay. So it's we need to hire more custodians just to manage that building. Um >> but the meaning behind your comments was more that that it's not going to stop those proceeding and those expenses have to stay happen. We have to we have to run those

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buildings reduce cost [clears throat] if we have to close the library on Sunday for weekends. And I just want to like um I'm not sure if this gets too worried, but on the on the memo talking about the

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cost, put like numbers on it like you reference all these different costs that are going up, but remind people like you know you have two and a half% and don't don't assume people know that >> we're Yeah. >> You mentioned why we face structural.

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>> Yep. Why would they >> rising costs affect labor contracts till it few like you gave the example of waste disposal but throw in some of the other ones because there's there's big numbers there that are far exceeded you know

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>> that's excellent feedback thank you >> I know he's trying to balance like so it's not a book but it's quick Yeah. No, I'm grateful for your feedback. >> Mark, sorry. I think I had

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>> Yeah, I fig questions first and then go to the other words. I did. >> I had a question, but I want to make sure my other members had something. >> So, I got a few questions. Um, the stabilization fund, um, should we be

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proposing using some of those funds? >> I would not recommend doing that. We should be putting our money. >> What what is the purpose of the stabilization fund? >> It's part of your your reserves. >> When would we use stabilization?

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>> So in some communities they they take their free cash certification at the end. Um they go to their town meeting they appropriate money for their capital and then they remove they put the rest of the free cash in stabilization because it's harder to spend. it's harder to

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spend it because you need a twothirds majority at town meeting and so it it reserves it. It's a it's a protective reserve. You have to convince more people at town meeting that you need whatever it is you want to spend money. So right now we only wait you only have

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$2 million in state. Um so your reserves and we'll talk more about this later are are dropping significantly. A few years ago, we had $19 million in reserves. And that seemed like this is not a good time to public and ask for an override

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because the reserves are like between free cash and between stabilization. But now that number is Sharon will take us through it later is is almost where what we have left is about need

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and then it's gone. >> So the stabilization fund will really be used after free cash is gone. Is that just trying to understand like what would you use? >> It's basically a savings account that you never touch is what I would call it. It's part of our reserves and we're

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where we're right now with the estimates I put in place for what I think three cash might regenerate this year. We're about 12% of our net available revenues. AAA bond rating requires a 15 to 20. So we're below where we should be. So any use of free cash in the fiscal 28 budget

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the recommendation would be to keep it low three billion or less because I know I can regenerate more than three million usually in any given year and it would be connected to capital spend which is one time. I think the thing that makes our budget different than a lot of other communities that that that discipline of

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that 5% of debt and capital built into our budget and a lot of communities they use their their free cash to pay for. So we've always used a small one and a half to2 million dollars and it was never the full amount of of the capital but having

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it would make sense and having it tied to our capital spend make it more of a one time use kind of scenario instead of supplementing our operating budget which is unsustainable. So that was kind of the thing because right now it looks like where free cash would be estimated

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somewhere around 13.6 million if you use 6.475 475 using half your free cash. That's not a good level. I would never recommend half. I mean, this year we essentially used half of our reserves. We're at 17.3 and we spent like $8.6

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million. So, so essentially that is not something we would have done on the onen like we would never chose to do that. free cash needed to be used for other things. Snow and ice, other things that come up that were less than ideal. But that's where the situation becomes bad

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is that we're using way more than we should and then something comes up that you have to put money at like the snow and ice that was like a million dollar over. If you were to spend down your free cash and all you have left is civilization and then you have bad snow

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and ice gear, you only have $2 million. You know, if you have if you lose a lawsuit, you know, so it's the ultimate emergency. >> It's your emergency like if we have nothing else or something. I mean, ideally I thought

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you want to see the stabilization 15% and anything extra would be attached. Do you know what I like or at least 10% or some other number because that's the number we're really driving for because our AAA bond rating is at risk at the very least the 7% that you

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acquire should be in there. Do you know what I mean? So that you can see the distinction of we need we require 7% minimum. So if that 7% was in stabilization fund that balance precache would look a lot smaller and a lot more manageable for people to understand. When you see a huge number like just

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million dollars in there, people think you just you're flush with cash, >> right? >> It sends Well, yeah. And it sends a it sends a wrong message to us. >> It's good to have reserves. It's good to have healthy spend on these reserves to get us through this rough patch, but we

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have to reboot in. I think >> I got So the uh the school's kil is coming in under. So is there a way that you're going to communicate >> so that amount of debt is going to be less

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like time will be um will be borrowed probably roughly more than probably like 60% for each project. So we borrow 50 million retail we were on we're supposed to be borrowing 86 our share was 86 where it's

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coming in so much lower my anticipation would be that second bar would be a lot less than we had planned but until I see a cash flow of how things exact numbers at this point I just know that tremendous that would help that cycle be

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much smaller and I think that the money that we did borrow will last us longer the cash projections that we have we borrowed enough to get us through June of 2027. The numbers are coming in so much lower. I would think it would bring us further into fiscal 28 further, you

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know, so that we wouldn't have debt payment at all until 29 second debt plus that second tranch will be smaller. So there's definitely things that are working in our favor in some ways, but I don't have exact numbers at this point, >> but we will communicate that. We will communicate it once I've got I mean I've

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been I've requested an updated cash flow and I'll be asking for one monthly as the project starts to proceed. >> So we interest on the money we've drawn down property. >> So we um invest the money that we've draw that the money that we we borrow

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we've been investing and maximizing investment earnings which we're allowed to do as long as we um stay within our spending. Um we have to spend like 10% within like six months whatever. So you really have to be careful when you borrow. You don't pay that spending timeline. You have to pay arbitrage

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which is the difference between your interest rate money. We don't want to pay that much back. We're allowed to keep that interest if we stated that our spending threshold which we borrow. Um but the reason we borrowed a little bit more than I had planned was to the over

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28. all signs last year were pointing that it was going to be 28 and we ended up trying to borrow enough to keep us longer so that if I can get that borrow to happen somewhere in the middle of fiscal 28 I won't even have an interest you know what I mean so it just depends

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on that cash flow exactly when I would borrow and and I do anticipate that that second borrowing much more just tax bill >> so but there will be a positive you know impact to [clears throat] people's tax.

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So we may see an override process or somehow communicate >> that you won't have as much payments. >> We will definitely have something on I just don't know about the exact numbers of what that impact. So I won't know exact >> your tax bill will still go up by but it

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would go by less than the calculator on site that we used to have. It's still there. >> It's still there. >> Okay. Y says so. So that's the it's sort of it is tricky to communicate about this because you're communicating like this is it winning against the counterfactual like uh but uh you know

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it is still many people like our last meeting or in fact communicate the whole thing make sure you're not I don't think the suggestion communicating the whole thing set that aside um >> a lot of >> as we communicate the whole thing uh yes

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>> I think we meant stack up all the about say oh it's only going up by 800 because the override like what about kill them >> exactly the net effect savings is that that stack is >> John had mentioned why aren't you showing me fiscal 27 I can't show you

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fiscal 27 tax rate hasn't been set fiscal 27 so when the bills go out for fiscal 27 those first two quarters they go out with fiscal 26 tax the tax rate in November so I can't give you what the tax rate is going to be and right now we're doing a rebal which is done

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even makes it harder for the assessor to even give me an idea of going to make. So, it's really not ideal for me to try and estimate it. So, what we the best we can do is use fiscal 26 um and you know average um average value for a home and

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the average tax bill and then tell you what that impact is that that first day. And we have following slides we get. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Did you have something? >> All right. So I had a

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sorry go ahead >> question. I know that we get somebody from last time we did that. Um we did an agreement with them. Um where is that? It's a while,

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>> but I think it was about two years. >> So, because it's done on like a threeear hour sold, >> right? >> It's really not working out to be as beneficial as our prior arrangement which was based on the CPI index. And so, what I'm seeing is that I'm actually

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getting less money each year instead of an increase of something. that agreement was it? >> I don't remember years. >> It was negotiated back with Dan. We still in the select board. So it was like >> So you just resigned it now? >> It didn't change.

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>> No, we changed it. Um I thought it would go up more. They're not selling as many kilowatts when they sell more kilowatts when we convert to electric. Maybe these on buildings come online and but she's right. It's not gone down a lot, but it has gone down a

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little bit because they're not selling more kilowatts. >> It's not significant. Maybe $20,000 reduction this year of what I'm getting out of. Interestingly enough, it went up. We're all at home. We're all all using power in the district. And then when people

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went back in, but it's not helping our budget. >> Yeah. >> So, and then receipts from growth based. Is there >> new growth? >> Yeah, new growth. >> New growth. I have not I feel like it's

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been declining and just kind of stabilizing. I'm not as actively engaged in what's coming in. I don't know if you can speak to it, but I do know that it we haven't seen any anything that's kind of really help. >> You have my conversations with the accessories.

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>> Nothing that's moved the needle. >> Some projects that are coming online. They will there will be, you know, some new growth numbers. There's some there's some exciting things happening. Um but they haven't pulled permits yet. So, I can't speak to it. you know, you don't

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know what those valuations will be. Um, Eastern Gateway, that project, reszoning that area and planning for redeveloping there, that's going to be the new growth menu. So, the the 40 smart district in downtown was

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part of what helped extend that 2018 override. That work that they did created new growth opportunities. Um, Eastern Gateway is your opportunity um to to you know that is a that's a longitudinal you know look that's

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strategic investment um that we all need to talk about reszoning that um I think Mary you talking about that >> yeah I think I remember Bob said in one year we had one billion in grow right when the the stuff was peaking yeah but

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it was all you know just like 1.6 six I think then it just started to >> right and now that the projects I've seen looking at CPDC that are coming up I mean okay like next to bagel world or next to perfectos I mean it's going to be once if it gets past what like 20

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apartments or something condos get assessed more than apartments it would be nice if we had more condos because those really help us out I don't know why they're the same thing with same number units assess them so completely different but like they were like four or five one year the downtown now it's

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just like maybe one a year so it's much smaller no new applications that actually change the downtown >> but also what's left in downtown I mean they've done a lot >> they changed the zoning district

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>> require more parking I Yeah. >> So, I just have a couple of questions and then I want to go. I know Tom Weiss has had his hand raised. >> Oh, all right. >> I can I would call on him. So, is everyone in

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their questions? >> So, one of my questions is I don't understand And maybe we can inter library director here why we need Sunday hours to maintain certification. Is it just to meet a weekly hours? Because there's a lot of other libraries that aren't open

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on Sundays. No, it's not. It's not just that. It's uh if we close the Sunday hours that does not require uh it it makes it risk pleasure. That's not what's really good driver. except if I have to do layoffs because we are

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required there's a formula um with the u somebody was sharing that I had access to it and I think that we have comparable number of FTEEs our neighboring [clears throat] town something like 25 FTEES in our library and I didn't really see

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where where we were lacking I thought we were high compared to neighboring like compared Wakefield and Melrose. >> I it the formula is not just you know it's not the same from town to town. I

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guess population that may be part of it but it's a formula. I don't know the details of the formula. I did discuss that with um with Amy but so she says if if at level

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two if RPL is at 3% they're okay. Um if there's no override in the best case they could cut no more than $29,50 level two. So that'll be Sundays and some other expenses they can maintain their certification. If the cuts are over $30,000

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um between salaries or expenses any combination of a person. >> So that's part of that. >> Yeah. It's that it's that local um appropriation that that formula you don't need that that's certified.

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>> Okay. And so it's it's it are these positions that have to be like official library positions because it has to be out of the library budget. Okay. So out of the budget, not necessarily librarian. I I don't want to get into debate about how they have director of equity. I'm never going to get his title

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right, but I know he's also our disability director now. Correct. So, I didn't know if we fully moved him to one town or something if that changes anything. >> He's not really in the library. Yeah, he's in the library, but he isn't doing library functions. Right.

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>> Right. Yeah. I don't know. >> I I I don't I don't I just didn't know if consolidating to the town side changes anything with the library budget and helps it run that if it's net the same amount. It just

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doesn't impact it. We still have him. we still have what he does. He's not um my other questions were just maybe minor things. But I guess just back to the library as a town manager, I know the board of library trustees controls a lot of aspects of the library what

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role do you can you you can just tell the library at a high level. We're doing 10% [clears throat] of grass cuts or something like that. That's what you can do. Like what what oversight role do you have on the library budget because I know they're a separate board that oversees. They they have special funds

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they control. Um but we have to reduce reduction for us. >> Okay. So yeah because they do have they have a lot of trusty trust. >> They do they have that can get them like this. >> Yeah. >> Um I guess another quick question. Um

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just on the police overtime. Are we now charging for police details special functions already? Okay. >> Yeah. Started that this spring and Um, and you know, it's disappointing to have to tell people that. It's not a it's not a fun thing to tell people, but it's but

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we're being equitable. Everybody everybody has to do it. And um we want in, you know, we're not going to make you have a detail. Don't, you know, we want crowds to require the street to be closed. Okay, I guess um I remember this

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more in another detail we got in the financial forum about this just called it cutting Microsoft licenses and I think wasn't it co-pilot licenses and you were going from 100 to some 50. I'm just curious how many town employees are now using it and I don't know if you get

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into Joe will correct me on my terminology about how many tokens the town is using the billing like I >> if we get too specific about that stuff I should use myself >> no I'm just saying we are we expending a

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lot on that right now and do you anticipate spending a lot is that cash is leveraging that >> we have we have some employees that have G3 licenses and we have some employes and we want to move more people to G3

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licenses. Um I mean you know and so that that's what part of what he wants to do. Um and then he he asked for 100 co-pilot license we're currently in the process of developing an AI acceptable use policy.

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Um and so we have a committee that started that work and how we use this ethically as a town um as as staff. Um, so because we have staff doing, you know, AI upgra over here. So we're like, we're not going to do that anymore. Have

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an enterprise you check your confidential. I just didn't know if this was a balance. We think we're going to save money with these licenses or whether this is just we're in the experiment stage. >> We're gonna save money by not giving by not distributing the 55 G3 licenses that

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he's asked for um and the 100 co-pilot license. But we do need to distribute more of those license. So we have some people doing this work that needs to be done. Um but it's really to avoid cutting things that our security our

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SCADA that holds up our you know our infrastructure our cyber security um you know licenses carry a lot of that. Kevin's very he's like you can touch these things. >> Please don't touch these other things. these are the ones I really can't have

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your touch and I'm like okay else >> just my only final point is and I think this was alluded to in the select board meeting last night you know most people open up their real estate tax bills um 10% increase and people are going to want to know well you're getting 10%

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more from me where is that going and why isn't it enough so if it's the first part of the killum recal say look of your 10% increase your 80% is is going to that the other 20% Is it health insurance? Maybe it doesn't have to be exactly two and a half two and a half%.

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>> Yeah. But people saw that and then to hear about an override on top. >> They'd want to know but why isn't that extra being very clear why what is driving it? What's in it? >> And the other thing that makes it confusing is the fact that in fiscal 26 was the first year that all the debt

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exions had fallen off. So fiscal 26 was extremely back. They could even have saw a slight reduction, you know, and then now they're going to have the first, you know, trunch of excluded debt hitting. It's about $568 for the average home and

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their home is appreciated. So you're going to have that 2 and a half%. I mean, your home is appreciated faster than other homes. So you actually see more than two and a half%. I think people think that my taxes can't go up more than two and a half% levy can. The ley go up to 9% and your portionate

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share of the overall value of all the property in revenue is based on what your property is worth what all so it's like a percent >> right I guess it's just a lot >> so people don't say wait my tax is going to be 20% more after this over I mean the other thing

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I'm noticing is that reading property appreciates extraordinarily fast the last time we talked about property values the average property was 8.90 and now it's like 950 and it's It's that was like a year ago. So it's like crazy to me how fast that the value

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property is value. >> The residential residential the commercials don't go as fast. >> Yeah. And therefore we're shifting more. >> Yeah. [clears throat] >> One more question there is that estimate we're talking about taxing. I'm kind of

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curious how that you mentioned Sharon something about using FY26 rates. So, because I I got my bill, I saw the debt increase. I did the math 99.999% or something. Like, okay, that's out. Um, and then but

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then I also thought, but this doesn't have appraisal for my house and it doesn't have a tax rate. This is an estimate. So it could be more >> but it's going to be less because every year property appreciates by more than two and a half%. And every year we end

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up setting the the nominal tax rate goes down. It has gone down every single year. So if we are using the FY26 rates >> been gone down when they finally said it. So you're right. It's positive. >> Right. So, so I guess I mean I I can do

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I can look at my old real estate textbooks and figure out whether or not the I just haven't done this work, but I'm assuming that that from the process you've described, it sounds like if every year we using the previous year's rate for the estimated part of the next year, that's always going to be

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overestimate if the normal rate goes down. >> If the rate is going recal coming in, so it's not going to go down. It has to go. No, but the part without fil. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Right. The two and a half% part.

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>> Okay. >> So, I think we're all set. And then [clears throat] we had hand on a >> I think unmute if you're still there. >> Yes. Trying to come off mute. Sorry

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about that. Um, can you hear me? Okay. >> Yeah. Yep. >> Okay. First, apologies. I'm not there. I just got back from New York, so I apologize. Um, a couple of things that were going on through the conversation. I just I'm trying to remember as I try to catch up since I was waiting. Um, first things

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first, uh, I think it's really important that we understand the 917 community priority. In the context of that, if we all remember this current FY27 year, the schools took about $847,853,000

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cut to a degree, which as most of you know at town meeting I emphasized multiple times is essentially removing the entire kindergarten community priority that we had over the 5-year period. So, we should be looking at 917 and saying we're reinstating the kindergarten community priority and be

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clear about about that because that was what was cut and the schools had to do a lot to balance that cut inclusive of spending money we would not normally spend in FY27 and remove to a degree our reserves as a result of some of that. So, let's I want to I want to make sure

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we're all on the same page and we should make sure the marketing says that appropriately, too. That's my two my two cents. Um, second, we have every single union in town going into negotiation this year.

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Every single one, right? Um, so >> we have to be conscious of that. And yes, the schools did put a number in there as a base um for the teachers and a slightly

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bigger number for another another union just from a a base perspective um because of where those unions are compensated but none of those have been negotiated yet to the point that was mentioned Jane by yourself right >> that is ongoing um some of which we're

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we're talking about starting soon um in the proactive and collaborative nature that we have held it over the last few times, but nothing has been committed yet and some of those unions are already aware that they all are aware that this this override is coming. So, it's not going to be an easy conversation for any

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of us, but something we all should be conscious of and have in the in our forethought as we're going through the year. Um, third is part of the conversation, I think, Marian, you were trying to rehash some of the the school committee conversation that we had, and we are

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going to have a meeting, as Dr. Turner mentioned to go through in more detail because we have not yet had a chance to go in detail um due to some of the transitions and a few other things that we've been we've been dealing with. So we will have more information ourselves

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here in the next week and a half or so for that conversation so that we're we're more informed and can therefore more inform select board or more advocate to select board as the case might be as well. Um my point in that conversation was more that and to the

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more that we have to think creatively across a lot of things and I I would we we have such a long and and continuous um strong relationship between school and town. >> Yes. >> I want that to continue. Um >> yes

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>> and I I I I've asked that we look at all sorts of opportunities for for furthering that as part of some of these conversations that we're talking about. um some of the non- studententf facing positions as an example and is there something there that we can be doing as

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we put more you know I I said this out loud in that meeting I'll say it out loud as well as we put the therapeutic in the budget for the uh recal the people that you would hire for that are the same people that would do something similar in the schools in fact

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you might compete with us by hiring somebody for that role so we should be talking creatively around that around on that front, not talking about hiring somebody fresh, but maybe augmenting somebody's salary that's already on the books of the town, but in the schools in the the school place, right?

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>> I heard where you said someone could spend the morning in the schools and the afternoon in the senior center. >> That was position because I wasn't sure if you meant a parallegal or >> Yeah, that was the construct. You know, we have we have some >> very very skilled professionals that are

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that are focused mostly in our special education space in fairness. So, it's not like they can just walk out the door and go work in the in the in the recal, but it is something we should be exploring and being creative about. HR and finance are two other places I think we need to be, you know, creative about

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as we think it through. Um, just can't not not because I don't love them because they're awesome, but because we just need to be conscious of this. And I I very much appreciate the question that somebody asked. can't tell who but about other revenue and and you know Eastern

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Gateway and stuff like that because we have to include what we have done as a town and what we are doing as a town to increase our revenue base as well so people are aware not just of the expenses um and what they're seeing and how

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they're seeing the 10% rate increase in their tax bases but what else are we doing as a town to to raise the revenue base uh appropriately. So, u just some food for thought as we go through this and as we, you know, work our way through it. Uh, obviously those of us on

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this call other than our select board members, um, are not really making the final vote. Um, but just a few thoughts. Thank you. >> Is there anyone else online?

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Angela Binda, you can unmute. >> She someone has to unmute you. Sorry, just stop. Okay. >> Is that good? >> Yep, we can hear you. Thank you. >> Okay. Um, I completely agree with what

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Mr. Weise said about sharing resources. I think that's a really important thing to think about as we need to look at budgets. I am wondering about the $66,000 for autic person from the town side. And

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I'm also wondering about what money is coming in um from the Burbank money that was put towards this. So those are questions that I will be asking as we move forward in the um budgeting discussions. Thank

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>> you. And anyone in the room have any comments or questions? Go ahead. Um Jeffrey 3 also um so yeah I guess the in the the red

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column where it says schools cut the nitrates priority the sort of if you're just looking down say how's this going to hit the schools you might not go up to the top where it says oh we're also cutting some positions right so somehow to indicate down there in the school

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section >> move the school section up too >> yeah you know, cutting the priority in addition to the the 67 positions um on the library, right? So, it the cutting this you were saying that

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cutting the Sunday hours isn't exactly what causes just jeopardizes the certification. It's the total cuts to their budget, right? So, I I don't know how you how you word that, right? But right now, it says cutting Sunday hours is what's jeopardizing the

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certification. Well, it's Yeah, I see what you're saying. Basically, one staffing reduction [clears throat] >> and it would probably be important. >> So, Stonem had did something too, right? Where they had they were going to face the loss of certification. They filed

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some sort of hardship. >> You can file a waiver. That's true. Um and um sometimes communities our students have to do that short term or program or um you can I

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I don't want to misrepresent but it moving that um you know that OESJ position in another department you could say well you say in the waiver this was never actually a real library services role just housed library budget so

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moving that role even though it would bring that mix down on the budget. you would say that's that's not really part of the services. That would be a basis. I believe I've had that conversation. Um they need to kind of what what constitutes a way to talk about that

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decision, but just to answer your question. >> Yeah. Just in terms of the you know, you want to say something that you're say you're going to cut something, you cut something, you say the certification's going to be jeopardized if we don't give the override and then oh actually we we pulled this little thing and we fought

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for the wave. magically we don't certification >> but yeah I mean you know how you word that exactly that to make like okay we might be able to to do this but >> that's why it's >> that's it's not gone it's >> but could the library pull from their

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donation funds in some way to to get through say this is a tough year to avoid dropping certification >> that would be a question for old members I wouldn't for that but >> I mean they've got at one point I think I looked a few years ago was a few

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million in donation French. So if it's a matter of 27,000 they might you know make that [clears throat] motion. Yeah, I was going to suggest that. I mean, there's the public library foundation and friends with their last 990s support obviously 150,000. So that might be something that they may change your

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priority depending on how this goes. >> Funds talent to opposed to capital expenses, but obviously as an independent choice of either >> I thought it was kind of related to the town fund of not necessarily coming from other sources. So that might be some of

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the calculations has to be >> donated to the town to use. >> Correct. >> It's not part of our break. So I think it's going to be like the library a certain percentage of like the materials expenses. It's going to be a certain baseline. >> I think it would be a good waiver excuse to say even though it's on our budget

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library. Yeah. Hopefully get there, but >> it's if an override fails, that's looking, you know, we'll do the best we can to restore that service, but it is at risk. It's a real thing. Um, and that and Sharon's right. It's

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the municipal um, I don't know whether we have any of those. >> Back to you. Oh yeah, quick question just um uh so town manager woman has um announced to

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the board that she will not be filling the assistant town manager position and um that concerns me. I especially concern [clears throat] the public we are building massive buildings and um struggling with financial structural

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deficits and all the normal stuff that happens. Um so but I was the question specific question is um Jane not having seen this last night because you were working really hard when the rest of us were sleeping >> like is it in here somewhere because

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that was a that was a big position which was that specific >> yeah I did put like the assistant town engineer um >> but it should be under administrative services I guess >> I don't know that I would I would keep

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it on the chart but we would not funding it right now. Right now then the other question is do I fill the administrative services department there? I mean I'm not filling an assistant town manager and now I have another department there that I need to fill and I'm I'm not sure

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I'm going to fill that. I will appoint somebody constituent services officer. So I'm I'm being my own example of taking administrative cuts. Um, I think it's important to model to the public that we're serious about this and um, so

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yeah, I can reflect that as well. >> No, I appreciate just having that conversation. I um, >> probably didn't want to hire an assistant town manager when we created the position, but now we're so much bigger. I just don't want to drop any really important balls. Put you in that position.

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>> I and I appreciate that because sleep matters. Um and uh my peer in Wakefield has two assistant towns that she that she recently borrows or like

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>> no just for that. >> No, no, no. Right now I'm not filling some positions in FY27 and I've not decided exactly which of those talked with the fire department. we got older positions that we're trying to hire. We're going to reduce how many we fill. So, we're talking about what do

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we have as we have a number of positions that are open, labor positions open and so forth. And so, um we're still going to fill some of the positions that were funded for, but not all of them. But, um right now I the plan is to fund the assistance uh sorry, the administrative

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services director role. certainly open um in you know this override but if it passes the override passes if it fails I don't know if I restructure >> and this is town manager coming

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>> um potentially I haven't I haven't put that number to our budget sorry >> uh so town county mentioned the um trying to preserve the AAA bond and one question I

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would have is you've already borrowed most of the bill amount and what we're going to borrow the rest is a little bit less because the bids came in so nicely and my question is what happens if we lose our AAA plot rating how much extra

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interest rate does the town interest how much extra interest cost does the town going to incur by that and are we still under the the amount that we that the town voters approved is a certain amount which includes all these interest payments. So if we're not paying as much

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in the actual expenses for it, can we pay more in the interest because we've dropped our bond rating and have to pay extra interest and still stay within the amount that the voters approved. >> So the the debt exclusion allows us to pay for the debt service, whatever that

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means. If we drop down bond rating, it's going to increase our interest. I think in the beginning when we had quoted out um what what the interest would be from a triple mill to the drop down plus I think they said was one one

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million to 1.5 million interest now when you looked at all of the projections for those those projects when we did a 30-year borrowing double the project so we're talking a lot of interest we're already paying about interest I would want to advocate for another million dollars for interest but that was I

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think the whole project total projects the whole project we borrow more than 60%. So I'd have to do some French to what was what would be the remainder. Um I will say that for a small community like how rating is a great accomplishment that you don't want to

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make lightly let it go. I think that part of what when we have our S&P calls, they say, you know, we like the way you do things, but what if management changes get done differently? And they might take it as a sign that we don't we don't hold the same values that we did

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in the past. We don't have that same structure because there are things about um the way we do things that isn't like enforced strictly, right? We we pay off our debt quickly. Um they like that about the way we do things. They like the way we budget. like discipline in

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our budget and if they start to see things going the other direction they start to wonder is there a management shift here the shift in philosophy that we're not going to be on for but I think we struggle to get it back if we were able to go so I really don't want to find out how long it takes to get it back if we lose it if we didn't deserve

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it I would prefer it obviously circumstances less than ideal sometimes those things happen but we want to do everything in our power and make decisions know that it risk Another question on the um tying the precache to

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the capital sort of going forward. What it what was that would that actually look like? And I mean right now we have a 5% um target that much capital. So is that 5% going to expand and contract based on how much regeneration we have in the

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previous year? >> No. What I would say is you you don't spend more free cash than your capital portion. Not that the capital portion of

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that 5%. So it's it's a cap. So you don't have to spend that much. You could just say we're going to do $2 million cash even though we're spending because every year >> that 5% rises in real dollars, right? So you're it's always going to increase. uh it gives you a little you know a little

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bit of room but if we're saying we have we're maintaining a discipline that we're not going to spend more than what we're spending in capital support it put in free cash [clears throat] then it's onetime money is matching onetime dollars you don't if I think in the

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first few years if we pass an 11 million um the first few years you wouldn't need you'd have so much regeneration and it would be funded the 5% would be funded in that in that budget fully without cash, right? So, you would have to and

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then as you went along and had crushes, you would you would support it, but you would only support it to that to that free cash, I'm sorry, that capital funding. It's it's a discipline. Once you get beyond that, you got to do something. Now, when we get out to FY32,

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we've paid off our pension line. that frees up millions of dollars that you know it seems like no every time we do a valuation they you know they change valuation they change like that they're using mortality

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the investment debt did you have gains or losses on what we didn't put in reception sometimes that increases your liability and we're so close to being fully funded that any big number is hard to keep in year forces your um enforces your fully funded year up and it has the last couple years.

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We've gone from 2029 to 2032. So as much as I want to believe that we will be fully funded by 2032, we do have to be cautious about that. It's possible we've been pushed out by any number of losses that you sufferations

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follow question by 29 >> the first debt payment on the second tranch hoping to push off to 29. So that would mean we could borrow at some point in um in fiscal 28. >> Okay. So I was going to say concerned

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about the bond rate that bar do that borrowing sooner to give it a rate. >> No, I don't think it would be a good idea. I mean largely because I feel like right now for if if I'm right about where free cash is going, we're at 12% the downgrade is at this point saying

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you're meeting our minimum 15. I would I mean likely what we would do if I'm borrowing in fiscal 28 and it's early in the year probably do shortterm borrow and then that would be just interest only depending on the year one

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interesting when I have to borrow as I said I did borrow enough based on the cash flows that we had originally to get us through June 2027 so that means that I was planning to borrow in 28 but now that we've got these these contracts coming in lower could actually give us much

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more time and that could be bar towards the middle or the end of that fiscal year which would have no impact on interest you know but I do have money budgeted you know fiscal 28 for interest but it would actually save us money it could be money comes back to cash regeneration so it's all about getting

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those updated cash flow from the projects and figuring out when's that next bar and as we get closer it'll be hopeful It can only help a little bit if we changed a policy like how we capitalize

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like thinking of gambling police capitalize those took them out of the operating budget. >> They are capitalized are capitalized but I think that we show them as an operating budget because they don't last about years. But if we would even we [clears throat]

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could just borrow to take that money directly. >> But we could do that. Yeah. I mean, but >> give a little lift to the operating budget. >> They look at them as operating expenses because the cars run pretty much 247. They do not last the set amount of time

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like five years that you would expect at least time to last. And so I don't know years ago under another town manager they decided that if it's more of an operating expense because they were buying so many of them it wasn't it was you know like the detectives cars get driven a lot less than

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>> but the ambulance like I just wonder can we change like how we think of useful hopefully the ambulance is going to last >> oh yeah the ambulance is on there >> it's a 10 yeah they're looking to replace the 10 so yeah

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that is in cap the annual capital. It's not it's just the gadget and the equipment that goes on the annual. >> Okay. So when we say we're taking it out, we're technically taking it out >> capital. >> So in ence that budget almost million

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dollar took out of capital >> that budget that the six million >> maybe people besides us would care about that. But >> we had about 3 million 9. Yeah. a little under $4 million built in just for capital in that in that original budget.

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If no override passes, we cut $989,000 of capital. Part of that is the ambulance, the equipment, the simulation mannequin, all the stuff that goes along with it. So, it's a it's a it's a lot of money. I think the simulation mannequin was 210,000. Ambulance is 500,000 and

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all the equipment that goes along with it. >> And so, I usually try and keep all that stuff together. I go buy an ambulance and not be able to equip them with everything it needs. And so they kind of come as a package deal, okay, probably another year deferred and so to say

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positions, it made sense for us to because we were putting a pretty high number in there for capital. That 5% brought us to about $4 million. Cutting that million dollar seemed to be the thing to do to help with position. >> Yes. Yeah. I don't know if it's necessary or not like say reduce a

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capital like investment like some people would be concerned about if we are making long-term capital you know cuts are going to come back to haunt us potentially. >> Yeah. Well, we're deferring so we're just pushing things out everything kind of a year. So they

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>> it's less an idea but it's >> so um I guess the this agenda item lists um a vote on recommended override balance. I don't >> there's a whole other presentation

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before >> Yeah. No, the the vote was listed before, but I guess I'm just wondering, do we think in the process, do we have to have that vote tonight? Vote on a recommended override amount? I mean, we're going to hear the rest of

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the presentation, but the select board will be taking a vote on the 22nd. Um, and so I think you would move the select board to have recommendations from Pincom. Okay. And and the intention of these

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dates is to um if the SW chooses to pursue a November ballot, we have to have that state. >> Okay. I just wanted to see if we were going to have to have that. >> We could also listen to the presentation tonight and hold a meeting hold another

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meeting before the 22. >> Yeah, I don't see that happening. That's a great summer. Yeah, >> I think we do need to have like that backup plan. >> We can we can get a sense to Chris, you >> question. So at the end of the day though, select board's ultimate responsibility is to choose the number.

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So we can put recommendations. They can say >> we can pick something. >> To be honest with you, we kind of have it not to say we, but it's a little backwards. I think they're leaning on us to come up with a recommendation of free cashache so they can then evaluate it back into single option, multiple

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option. Is it eight? Is it seven? Is it four? Is it none? So I personally would not be comfortable voting on an override amount today. I'd rather evaluate what they choose. >> It's not the override. What do we do? >> That's what the vote says. Recommend an override. >> Oh, is it?

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>> I thought that the vote tonight is supposed to be for for if an override were to fail, what would your recommendation be for free cash that we can nail down with the free cash? >> That's not what the I don't know if we'd be out of out of line. meeting because

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that's not what the uh vote was supposed to be. >> Maybe it should have said free cash. >> We did have an email about the agenda. >> Yeah, I do think I do think we wanted to see where we're at. That would >> maybe it could be a straw pole vote, but not a binding vote.

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>> Yeah, also a free cash recommendation today. I guess is it not really binding? I mean, we're not making >> this suggestion. I'm definitely on board with coming up with a suggestion for a free cash out to better guide the select next week. >> We need to know how much free cash we have in this presentation

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>> hopefully. And >> that is what's going to guide. >> I guess it's that's not what's on the agenda which is my concern. >> Go ahead Joe. >> Yeah. So, okay. So

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>> former chair here uh you know who who uh you know asked at our last meeting what is that you know many times you ask for so so um you know first the point about like recommendations finding yeah literally nothing that come but we are we advised meaning uh select board as I

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as I understand it select board asked us for recommendations and that it makes sense for them to ask us recommendations because we spend even more hours nerving about the than they do. Um, so great. Um, hopefully we can help. Um, the

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recommendation implies they use free cache. Uh, but I wasn't asked for when putting together the but the agenda for tonight's meeting. Um, clean the email we have. Somebody asked me for a vote on a

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recommended amount of free cash outside of the context of a vote on our recommended uh amount or amounts. >> Yeah. I'm trying to think if if you recommended an override amount that doesn't necessarily imply green cash to

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get there, right? Because we could pick a number. We could pick, you know, nine million, right? And that could be that could be achieved in different ways. So go ahead and >> confused. It says discuss override

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options. So that's part of the first >> and both are recommend override. So we can when we discuss about override option I'll say an override option is x amount of

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free cash and then 6.5 million. It's it's within what it says. I don't think we're doing anything wrong. >> No, but the vote is only contained on the over amount, but we're free to to say that to discuss about the

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three cash, >> but I guess we would pick >> we we're going to hear more about what hole we're plugging, right? And you know, does it how are we going to plug that hole next year when it's 10 million? We know we

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know it's 7 and a half million and we know we know we need 10 million and you can get to 10 million partially be override it and partially be free cash use >> but I do think that when it comes to an override scenario it is a collaboration between and select they need to give a

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recommendation you guys are more I think that they're kind of counting on you to kind of tell them what your thoughts are based on what you see our reserves position is um and based on what you're seeing and and you can you could tell us from we should not go below this amount

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of our accounting stabilization fund towards it but this is the lowest you could go so here is the maximum free cash you have for next year >> and [clears throat] we may not go to that so that's >> why don't we let's get to the >> yeah let's get to your part of the

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presentation but I just want to know where this is going >> all right so bottom online. Uh we reviewed these these numbers will be familiar by now. Uh level two budget is a 3.75% increase that maintains educational excellence for our schools by 14%

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uh increase achieved through a community priority by 17. The proposed override range is 6.5 to six and a half million. A supplement of 3.3 million dollars of free cash would be needed to build above it budget. Um we previously talked about

417
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seven and a half% million dollars produced that um in part through additional positions I want to um at $10 million no supplemental free cash would be needed year one at 12 million free free cash would be pushed out

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much free cash would be needed in year two at 10 million get to that >> uh cost drivers important for folks to understand decades of institution locally from the beacon Hill. Um FY27 was the beginning of a new 5-year trash

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contract which increased over FY26 39.5%. The 10-year JRM contract. Sweet, sweet deal. And um unfortunately, those days are over. >> Um

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let's see. >> No, Melissa joined at 83. So there still in. >> All right. Thank you. >> Okay. >> Um and then we decreased it 8% for FY208 by removing the weekly recycling. We I wanted to keep it in and have weekly

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recycling in at the lower level, but then we couldn't sustain it even at that six half uh million dollars level. So that had to it had to go. Um inflationary pressures are driving up to labor and benefits. Um health insurance skyrocketed in recent years and that's

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uncertainty. We are planning for 10% increases in the next few years. We are grateful to our um software expenditures with building security, our computer aated dispatch and parking enforcement um were important investments at a at a big

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cost. And just so folks understand the computerated dispatch, anybody remembers what a TRS80 was or there you go. Or um >> or uh you know like Just think of a radio show.

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>> It's like a cursor. Have you seen war games that movie? Fantastic. Fant. I made the 80s movies. That's kind of what the computerated dispatch. That's what they're working with now. The new system comes online. So, I mean, what we can do with the really old system is amazing,

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but it's >> Nobody can hack it. >> Gota go. >> It's not on the internet, >> right? No. So, and um and our insurance policies for the new buildings, we did renegotiate our our property casualty insurance policies last year, bring them down for FY27, which is great news, but

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our estimates for FY the new buildings will come online FY28. So, that's a big expense. We're estimating that in 230 things we've done so far. We've renegotiated health insurance to bring up the PEC. We're grateful to our employees who are local. They're residents. They understand the problems

427
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that we're facing. They were great to work with. Um, and so we're projecting savings over three years. What was the increase going to be this year? >> They were estimating it to be at 14%, but then they took the GOP once off and

428
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down 10.86%. So, so we actually have a larger number on our budget. That agreement had been settled setting that budget. >> Yeah. So, so we have we have done plan design change. This um the first major

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plan design change 35 years. So, and and PC's done other changes. They've worked with the town. They've been, you know, they they've given back things to town, but this is this is a big change. They weren't deductibles before. There are now um we've renegotiated property casualty insurance. Uh we're leaving

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some positions unfilled. We're increasing fees. In fact, last night the select board approved their consent agenda. in a few areas the fire department ins um we've it seems it seems foolish maybe but we've cut our office supplies across

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the board 10% and when you've been level funding your office supplies for five years you know that's that that is that can be a little difficult um we've reduced our capital budget and um pensions will be four divided by 32

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>> four and a half or I thought we said for >> so this is fiscal 27 >> fiscal 28 is a different step and if it fail it's over next slide >> and Jame [clears throat] just quickly the positions though is it

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>> like is there a hiring fees or >> I instituted it yesterday >> oh okay so it's not on this but there's >> there is a brand >> okay I know you can't say But like on the school side, do they have >> that's that's the school committee. That's the the superintendent of

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schools. I I do not control their budget. However, they they do >> I don't think they can do that because just even if they're mandated to hire, you know, one-on-one aid because someone's IEP, you just can't. >> And like I said before, I will be hiring some people and I will I'll be very

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careful about what we're doing and so forth. It's not that we're not going to hire anybody, but it's all the department heads have to bring their positions to be for approval and maybe more auster. >> All right. So, um I hand it over to

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Sharon to talk about your reserve status. So, we started off fiscal 26 with 17.3 million of free cash and then the all started by November

437
02:06:08.880 --> 02:06:26.800
about $ 8.6 million. So roughly half for cash used in fiscal 26 and so we're estimating regeneration. It's a little bit easier for me to estimate regeneration for the revenue because that's more obvious right now. We're still processing warrants for fiscal 26.

438
02:06:26.800 --> 02:06:41.920
So the expense side is still a little bit unknown. and also the payroll rule. We still have payroll rules for this week's payroll that actually relate to fiscal 26. So I'm estimating based on what I've seen the last couple years based on what I'm seeing currently with

439
02:06:41.920 --> 02:06:59.440
the budget about a million. So basically our free cash is estimated to be and this could be low if that million dollar is low but I'm I'm estimating so it could be $13.6 million of free cash. We got just over $2.1 million of stabilization and then we have our incom

440
02:06:59.440 --> 02:07:16.960
reserves just shy of $16 million total reserve. However, that's only 11.98% of our net available revenues for fiscal 27. So we're we're definitely no longer in the space that we want to be from using as much cash as we have.

441
02:07:16.960 --> 02:07:33.679
So this slide is from town meeting. It's essentially showing our actual reserves in comparison to our 7% minimum. And then in fiscal 26 27 it had projected using actual use of free cash which was 8.57 million for fiscal 26 and then

442
02:07:33.679 --> 02:07:50.079
assuming we used the same amount that we started off um fiscal 27 with for fiscal 28 at 6.475 and then regeneration at the you know conservative $3 million. If that was the way we played it out at the end of fiscal 27, we would be right up

443
02:07:50.079 --> 02:08:07.040
in line with the 7% which is not ideal. It's not ideal for a bond rating, but also just it's diminishing our returns. >> A very quick question. I thought I heard in the school committee meeting someone saying well 7% isn't really what we want. We want 10%. >> We want 15 to 20 is what we really

444
02:08:07.040 --> 02:08:23.520
wanting right 12. So yeah. So right now I mean that would actually be going further the other direction. I guess pointing out if we were to use the same amount of free cash in fiscal 28 which would be voted in fiscal 27 April down meeting that would actually lend itself to the

445
02:08:23.520 --> 02:08:40.560
potential of us actually budding up 7% minimum reserve that we set for ourselves which is different from what bond rating agencies are really it used to be 10% was sufficient now it's 15 to 20 so having used so much free cash in such a short time we've actually put

446
02:08:40.560 --> 02:08:56.880
ourselves at at risk which I don't think kind of on the onset knew all of the things that would come up. Fiscal 26 that would require precaution, especially the snow and ice was a big surprise. I don't think I've ever seen us request a million dollars for snow and ice. So the things that went down in

447
02:08:56.880 --> 02:09:14.000
26 were not exactly anticipated. So I don't know that I would be in favor in trying to go with that kind of a number fiscal 28. So that's the reason to show you that because that would bring us down and we might actually be in danger of bond between our own reserve which is the seven%. So we'd be right in line

448
02:09:14.000 --> 02:09:31.599
with that which is less than I do. This slide shows us um on the blue is the free cash used each year and the red is what we regenerated um each year. And you can see in early years most years we regenerated well more than we used. But in recent years we start it's starting

449
02:09:31.599 --> 02:09:47.920
to hurt. It's going the other way. We're actually using more than generating. So we're just kind of depleting our reserves is what's happening which is the need for the override. We're definitely in a space where we need more free cash to plug this structural deficit that generating which is just

450
02:09:47.920 --> 02:10:04.400
making reserves move down fast. Now this is the structural deficit. This is two slide thing and what's happening here is I'm showing you our accommodated cost. Our accommodated cost in ready is we take the money for accommodated cost off the top before we split the money

451
02:10:04.400 --> 02:10:20.000
with the school and the town. And these are areas that can be kind of hard to control. Their benefits, out of district special ed, debt, um energy costs, veterans aid, insurance, all these things are taken off the top. And during

452
02:10:20.000 --> 02:10:36.239
the last few years, they have been outrageously high. The percentage of increase is well above what we can expect. And so what the purpose of this slide is to tell you where is that structural deficit created? Oh yes, sorry, forgot to add that. So

453
02:10:36.239 --> 02:10:52.880
essentially up here, these are all actuals from fiscal 20 to fiscal 26. I've updated I've updated this to be actuals through last week, even though we're not completely done, just to give you a view. And so this basically shows you in

454
02:10:52.880 --> 02:11:08.960
this column here the difference between what we spent in fiscal 26 and what we spent in 20, how much that changes, what the percentage is over that seven-year period. Over here it's what would I anticipate those to go up? What would be

455
02:11:08.960 --> 02:11:25.520
affordable under a prop 2 and a half budget? 2 and a half% every year for seven years would be 17 and a half%. So this number here represents what 17 and a half% would look like. However, this is what we saw. So there's a structural deficit built in here. You know our our

456
02:11:25.520 --> 02:11:42.880
so the very first line our our pensions our pensions went up $3.6 6 million over what they were in in 2020, which is a 71% increase. But if I did 17.5% increase, I would only been at 731. So

457
02:11:42.880 --> 02:11:59.599
this $2.8 million is is kind of the kind of piece that we've been filling in with free cash is anything above what can be afforded under our Prop 2 and a half. So I used two and a half. It could even been three, but just generally showing you this is the problem. These are our actual costs. These are not our budget.

458
02:11:59.599 --> 02:12:16.400
This is our actual cost. and they have risen dramatically in all these areas. So in the area of benefits, we have $5.2 million of structural deficit because they rose 71.75%. And then in capital, I didn't show you

459
02:12:16.400 --> 02:12:33.440
capital because capital's all over the place because we're waiting a long time. If we buy a fire truck in one year, we don't get it till two years later. So, it really wasn't making the numbers make sense, but capital has been increasing um at a very double digit rate, 20% more. Um, but it really made this look

460
02:12:33.440 --> 02:12:51.119
kind of funky, so I didn't put it in. Um, debt, about a million dollar difference um in the debt area. Energy, $574,000 of structural deficit is coming from that area. It's not like anybody

461
02:12:51.119 --> 02:13:06.719
>> just like when you say death though like I'm trying to understand that while we're two and a half like because that's not really that's that's a function of how much but >> that's I guess it's a 5% you say >> so but I'm basically saying like in terms of we do this 5% of your balance

462
02:13:06.719 --> 02:13:21.840
in debt but in general like if you were to say a prop two and a half budget can really afford things going up about two and a half to 3% and so our debt changed enough that it would over that, you know. So that $271

463
02:13:21.840 --> 02:13:37.679
271425 is what I would have hoped for for our debt to change, but our we ended up borrowing for more things and so we have a million dollars there. So it's basically just showing you just the change and it's just to let you know that the actuals really are coming in

464
02:13:37.679 --> 02:13:52.560
much higher than what you can really afford in a prop and a half budget. I mean the biggest source of revenue that a a community has is the the the taxes which only can go up two and a half% and our overall revenues only go above 3.2

465
02:13:52.560 --> 02:14:08.960
3.5. So really anything that goes up more than that three three and a half% they're really it's really messing up our budget and making us cut other areas to help with this and we've been plugged into this hole with free cash. So as I said that's a small piece of it the debt

466
02:14:08.960 --> 02:14:32.639
but then the energy is 574. So this is the second page of accommodated cost. Also we have financial which is our property insurance and veterans assistance veterans on the decline but our property faculty is about 420,000 above what we

467
02:14:32.639 --> 02:14:48.639
would have expected and that's with us actually having a fiscal 26 some savings I thought yeah was it 27 >> is that just because like insurance rates are going up everywhere you like we all see that with our home >> we went to our insurer and gave real

468
02:14:48.639 --> 02:15:04.159
hard time said we need to bring our property And that's >> because we guess because we had really good loss ratios >> and it went down. >> So we paid less FY27. >> So in the accommodated cost section the

469
02:15:04.159 --> 02:15:21.040
only section only piece of special ed that we pick up in accommodated cost the auto district special ed which is the area where we have the least amount of control about the pricing and so that can really be a budget buster. So we pulled that out before we split the money and that only had increased 58,000

470
02:15:21.040 --> 02:15:36.560
but it doesn't tell the whole picture of special ed in general because there's a conscious effort on the the part of the superintendent and the school committee to try and spend more money in district on special ed to make it so that fewer kids go out of district. And so down below I give you a little bit more

471
02:15:36.560 --> 02:15:53.040
information about special ed it's just it's very telling. I mean the overall special ed is up 1.6 over what the 2 and a half% every year would afford and and it breaks it down to in district is almost 1.1 million a

472
02:15:53.040 --> 02:16:11.199
little over 1.1 million and 508 for um out of district which is the part that's in our cost section. So that that's significant that's being absorbed in an operating budget. It's only been going up three 4% every year. So that's kind of a lot for that to have gone up above.

473
02:16:11.199 --> 02:16:27.599
And then vocational schools, as you know, there's a school being built in Wakefield and we start to see capital charge. That's a million dollars, just about above what we would have anticipated. And we're seeing increased enrollment at those schools. So, we're actually seeing more of a piece of the capital. So, the [snorts] way things

474
02:16:27.599 --> 02:16:43.840
work is every year their operating budget and their capital, whatever their debt payment is, is broken up to [clears throat] based on how many students from your community come to their schools divided by the overall number. And so the more students you have go the the bigger this number for

475
02:16:43.840 --> 02:16:58.719
capital becomes and the operating budget that so we are seeing an increase of students going to that school as well. So that's where that million dollars comes from that capital being the biggest piece. Robish is 194,000 above

476
02:16:58.719 --> 02:17:14.479
and that doesn't include the fiscal 27 um new contract. It's up 39 and a half%. Um, so this is before that actually hits and it's still up almost $200,000 more than what could have been afforded in a prop two and a half budget. Snow and ice

477
02:17:14.479 --> 02:17:30.319
was at $1.5 million fiscal 26. So $800,000 was covered by free cash essentially over the this this time frame. State assessments um something's missing in the state assessment. So that number is going to be but state

478
02:17:30.319 --> 02:17:46.399
assessments, you know, go up every year, but they're very gradual. I can see I have an inco number here. It looks like we're missing a month that hasn't been posted yet, but it just it it wasn't a significant piece. We're looking at it through fiscal 20 to fiscal 25, but I

479
02:17:46.399 --> 02:18:01.120
didn't have the number to put in there yet. So, but that that could be up, but not probably not much. And then um the grand total here is $9.5 million of structural deficit that we've absorbed through free cash cuts within

480
02:18:01.120 --> 02:18:20.800
our budget. Um so, That's noteworthy because a lot of people say, "What do you need this money for? You're not adding anything. What am I getting from our money? We're just filling the hole that inflation has created um in our in our expenses. This is the prop two and a half override

481
02:18:20.800 --> 02:18:37.040
history of the ones that have passed. 1993, we got a $2.4 million override that lasted us 10 years. We did 4.5 at that point. That passed and lasted us 15 years. The override we got in 2018 was smaller than the one we got 15 years

482
02:18:37.040 --> 02:18:53.359
prior. Time value of money. I would have expected that number to pass at a bigger um amount, but it did not. We went with a lower number because the first override bill and we still somehow made that 4.15 million last nine years and we the estimate was three to five years. So

483
02:18:53.359 --> 02:19:08.800
the combination of using our reserves and the the car's act and ARPA, all of those things, those grants actually helped us extend out that difficult period during the pandemic. >> After 2018 too, I think we were only using like one and a half million to two

484
02:19:08.800 --> 02:19:25.280
at most. >> Drag different yet a dramatic difference. >> This slide shows you the average tax bill. As I said, I cannot give you fiscal 27 average assessed value. It's too broad. So I had to leave the 94419. But what I did add to the slide, the

485
02:19:25.280 --> 02:19:40.399
average tax bill for fiscal 26 was $10,348. I show you the impact that you see in your fiscal 27 tax bills, which was estimated at $60.19 per 100,000 of value, which would have

486
02:19:40.399 --> 02:19:57.760
been $568 for your average tax bill. So if you were trying to figure out where where's my bill going to be kind of around, you would take the 10, 348. Add in the 563 and you're getting closer to where that bill would be. Um, but there's also that appreciation of your

487
02:19:57.760 --> 02:20:13.520
property value. It could have gone up two and a half% it could have up three. Depending on how quickly your property is appreciating comparison to others, you could see more than two and a half. Most people would see a similar thing. Um, and this shows you what what an override impact would be. So for the

488
02:20:13.520 --> 02:20:30.560
$6.5 million that Jane had discussed is the number the low number that we would hope for that that would be $736 for the average taxpayer and 14 million I can't see us ever asking for that but I give you all the different levels you know I can't see

489
02:20:30.560 --> 02:20:46.479
that I can't see us having but I gave it because we're not asking for that but I give it to you so you can see kind of what the impact is you know it you know because we did get a large list of things in that level one budget for departments that went unfunded at least

490
02:20:46.479 --> 02:21:04.880
$1.7 million worth of things just under time that they would have had. So if it was if there was an appetite for it, it definitely could have been a higher number. But I don't see that fing where we're heading. We're trying to move for the lowest possible number.

491
02:21:04.880 --> 02:21:21.439
We had talked about the the tiered approach. We'd also mentioned in the beginning of our conversations, you know, at the end of the budget season for for fiscal 27 that there's always the option of phasing in an override. So this would show you an example of impact

492
02:21:21.439 --> 02:21:37.040
if you were taking a $10 million override and you were to spread it over three years. So the first year you'd see $453 hit your tax bill. The next year I would only ask for 2 million. So you would only see 226 because you're going to be

493
02:21:37.040 --> 02:21:53.040
having the actual second tr is probably going to hit there. And then year three you'd see 453. It still adds up to the same total on the prior slide, but just to give you an idea of what kind of impact you'd see each year. And I gave you a few different examples. The six and a half, you could say, "Oh, let's do

494
02:21:53.040 --> 02:22:08.800
that over two years, or you could even do three, where you do the first one at 5 million and then do nothing year two, but year three do this 169." So, there's a lot of ways we could structure that if that is where people feel more comfortable is having it phased in at

495
02:22:08.800 --> 02:22:24.640
different at different amounts. I don't know. Did we find out for sure if a tiered approach could be done like this? I think the way it works it can be. The way this works though too is that if if there was a $10 million override and we say it's going to be

496
02:22:24.640 --> 02:22:39.359
spread over three years. We give you the kind of parameters that you would do it by. The way that would work is do would see that your override pass for $10 million. So on the tax recap it would add $10 million to my levy. The way that works is I would physically leave excess

497
02:22:39.359 --> 02:22:54.880
capacity on the table. I would not charge it. >> You run a risoto found meeting on the floor spending it in theory. >> I've never seen that happen, but I guess it's a possibility. But you had they would have to have trust that I would

498
02:22:54.880 --> 02:23:11.600
not do something opposite of what I said or what that J and I would be holding over. >> I guess the question is if you if someone if you took a different position, right, that your replacement could take it all. Right. >> Exactly. something happened to me and I wasn't here but not that we've won

499
02:23:11.600 --> 02:23:29.600
anything but depending on the personal >> and the other thing I think that there could be some sort of wording that's put out there I don't know how binding is to say this is how it's structured this is the way it's going to happen but the way on it would happen on the testing is I would leave the excess capacity so in

500
02:23:29.600 --> 02:23:45.280
the $10 million scenario if I took $4 million that first year the excess capacity I have to leave to to my word is six could be $6 million. The second year I would have the four million build my baseline and I'm going to have to leave four million at the end of it and

501
02:23:45.280 --> 02:24:02.760
that's how it would work because do kind of police us on that. So it would be kind of one of those the res that we would execute as we said we would >> which we have a couple of questions both on income and then raised hand in line if you

502
02:24:02.800 --> 02:24:17.920
>> so when we're talking about spreading it over it is this wording when you say we're communicating this is this wording that goes in the actual ballot or >> question how would the public understand that

503
02:24:17.920 --> 02:24:37.359
through information session information you put out a tax calculator. I know you know if they're coming in and they're voting on something else and they see this they may just not understand it but has to be communicated when the when the conversations are happening

504
02:24:37.359 --> 02:24:55.359
with the resur if there was you had a question of sparing out is that it's the taxpayer less >> yeah so I think it's important to know that the taxpayers just got the that

505
02:24:55.359 --> 02:25:11.359
exclusion. So the softer we make it I personally like this approach just just because of where we are right now. >> I guess they just vote without understanding I don't know >> education educate

506
02:25:11.359 --> 02:25:27.280
>> we had a select board member her hand raised >> um Angela but select board member her first please. >> Okay thank you madam chair. Um yeah, so I just um glad to see this presented. And then last night at the select board

507
02:25:27.280 --> 02:25:44.080
meeting, maybe during maybe after, we talked about whether or not if our community makes a decision to do an override and phase it over several years, whether there is oversight from do and I think I heard it's maybe there isn't any and it's all done internally.

508
02:25:44.080 --> 02:25:59.600
Are we positive on that answer? >> Yes, you check. >> I spoke with Sean Cronin today at my He is DLS. He's he's the guy. Yeah. So, >> I spoke to him today and he says all

509
02:25:59.600 --> 02:26:15.600
they get back at do is you know the amount of the override and um you know when we voted it in and what it's for. So, and that's comes from your question. So, we might put it on for operating and for schools or if you look on DLS right

510
02:26:15.600 --> 02:26:31.760
now it says so for the 4.15 it's like just operating schools and everything else. So they just put it on itself. >> Yeah. But um No, so they don't police us as that. I did ask that question. >> Okay. No, that's a good answer. Um because you know, we do we do have

511
02:26:31.760 --> 02:26:51.680
residents that just we want to do what we say we're doing and being very clear and have accountability. But thank you >> question. Sorry to jump on the queue here, but in member um the the um I want to make a just an observation rather

512
02:26:51.680 --> 02:27:07.600
than a question. All of these year one numbers are small on this example are smaller than the 6.5 million that we think we need for the yellow case here. So, um, and this maybe doesn't change

513
02:27:07.600 --> 02:27:23.280
the point like in terms of if if we put multiple override options on the ballot, the ones that are bigger than six and a half, you know, could be spread out, but presumably they would need the first, we would still need the first six and a half in first year for the same reason that we need six and a half first year.

514
02:27:23.280 --> 02:27:39.120
>> It would require us to use free cash. But knowing you have it passed, you know, you're getting it back from the tax spread out. >> And and even if we're if we're instituting the override in over three years, you restore some of the positions, you know, or some of the expenses and you can restore those

515
02:27:39.120 --> 02:27:55.120
later, too. So, you bring stuff back online in the second year, >> right? But the six and a half is what we need to get in order to get these things. So if we did, if the impact in year one was only 4 million, >> you would get >> two and a half million of these things wouldn't be coming in the first year.

516
02:27:55.120 --> 02:28:10.640
That's >> which is a wash. >> But for me as your manager, I I like that scenario better than no things coming in. >> No, in terms of of of the red columns,

517
02:28:10.640 --> 02:28:25.439
>> but what you're doing this year, you got to be generating more next year for Y28. because they're holding some positions open. Yeah, I expect there'll be regeneration, but there's also >> you know some some funding there.

518
02:28:25.439 --> 02:28:41.520
the expense is a lot like we have needed to add more money at town meeting uh you know in the spring every year seems like we need to add every town meeting it seems like we need to add more in article five or whatever it is you know because which I assume is

519
02:28:41.520 --> 02:28:56.240
the effect of like the level funding expenses and then level one fund expenses and then >> and then and then >> well some some of that might not have happened to the extent to that if If we knew there was an override, some of that

520
02:28:56.240 --> 02:29:12.560
free cash spending and prias might not have happened. >> Yeah, we might have decided, oh, we won't do not I'm not saying pippable, but I mean something we might have been a little tighter in some of our decisions. No, please. I don't think it's been so easy with 300,000 here and

521
02:29:12.560 --> 02:29:29.680
300,000 there, right? But I do think it's a different scenario using free cash knowing an override for $10 million is passed because you know you're getting back. And and also too in this budget, this fiscal 28 budget, there is a fully loaded budget for these new buildings

522
02:29:29.680 --> 02:29:46.479
for all of the costs for a full year so that it's part of our baseline. We're not going to spend all of that, but I have to do that just to get them built in at 100%. So there is a little a lot of extra that's actually built into fiscal 28 to to get that fully loaded for those buildings. And we're not

523
02:29:46.479 --> 02:30:02.080
having to spend all that money. So we could be putting the free cash in to balance it, but we probably put it right back into free cash. You know what I mean? So I do feel like when you have and also to from a perspective of S&P looking at us if we were doing a permanent borrowing, they see that there

524
02:30:02.080 --> 02:30:18.640
that you have a past over that you're phasing in like the way you would explain. They would feel like you've got the back of your residence. I think they'd be less concerned. Um and and also too, I could put off a permanent borrowing. they could do a short-term borrowing and until we got closer to the

525
02:30:18.640 --> 02:30:37.600
end of the project. So, there's a lot of options there. So, I do think that the four million is less than ideal. We need six and a half, but if you pass the $10 million or $1 million or 8 million, I know that I'm getting that money back to >> just what I can ask one quick thing.

526
02:30:37.600 --> 02:30:55.080
Maybe you already said this, Joe made me think of or you Oh, well, we're not putting back everything at 4 million. What is the um cost of every week recycling versus every other week? Not that I I feel like that's the most.

527
02:30:56.000 --> 02:31:11.600
>> So that's a lot of money. I mean, if we didn't put that back, but we were keeping teaching positions or keeping police position. I'm just >> it's it's four people that um number in the

528
02:31:11.600 --> 02:31:28.080
>> right. I'm just saying in terms of what we're doing for the that might be the higher >> that people might miss that less than other things. I think >> um I don't know. I I lived through all of the conversations and the phone calls about recycling. It's a trash contract,

529
02:31:28.080 --> 02:31:45.840
but there was there was a lot. It was a lot. So, I guess everyone's still adjusting to it, too. >> And we could tweak any one of these to make it work. But the whole idea is to >> it is and that's why that's you're absolutely right. That's why it's like

530
02:31:45.840 --> 02:32:04.800
that's an easy one to say we're gonna >> so to me it's like the last thing you went back ahead and then I'm gonna go to Angel like the go with 6.5 or 31 or with eight.

531
02:32:04.800 --> 02:32:23.520
What's the expectation of the next over [clears throat] you have that? >> I would say that at the six and a half, we're lucky we get three to five years. It's really a baseline number because if things continue to increase the way they have, especially health insurance being

532
02:32:23.520 --> 02:32:40.720
one of our larger expense items outside of salaries continue to increase at a double digit percentage, three to five years would be the most I could promise. I practically any numbers that kept happening. I'm hoping that it will stabilize. So I think what we were told by Maya was next couple years still

533
02:32:40.720 --> 02:32:57.600
budget a 10% number and then I start putting a seven or eight. But that still hurts. seven or eight is still a number that does not work with the budget like this. So for the next five years, I'm showing either a 10 or a seven or eight and that those numbers, if they end up being lower, help us, but I have to be

534
02:32:57.600 --> 02:33:12.960
conservative and keep those numbers up until I see that those numbers are going to be lower. So it's really hard to say the 11 million with our projected deficit is like 11.4 in FY 32. So if we did an 11 million up front, that should

535
02:33:12.960 --> 02:33:36.399
get us to FY32. infrastructure back >> and you get and you get the money. >> Yeah, >> by that point Eastern Gateway >> we need at least five year.

536
02:33:36.399 --> 02:33:53.840
>> We need what the the electorate can tolerate. >> Yeah. >> Do you know what I mean? I mean, you've asked a lot. >> I I >> I I understand. The irony is not lost on me that over the Fourth of July weekend where we're celebrating the 250th

537
02:33:53.840 --> 02:34:13.479
anniversary of our independence from King George Third's tax policy that people are opening their tax bills and seeing increased taxes and and we're talking about it over at the same time, >> right? >> But it's a structure.

538
02:34:14.800 --> 02:34:31.439
first and I'm your new town manager, but I've been here for 10 years and I will say that I think Sharon and and and this committee over the years have done an excellent job of making the override last override was less than what we've

539
02:34:31.439 --> 02:34:48.479
done 15 years before that. I mean, we're not catching up and growing and and you know, doing those things. The town is a steering. Um heads are very good at managing their budgets. um you know the work has been done and continue to do that work whatever the

540
02:34:48.479 --> 02:35:05.359
electorate that's but it will serve consequences >> and these are just examples we could structure it way we wanted we could make the first year six million less we do to make it just to give you an example of how you could spread it out to make it

541
02:35:05.359 --> 02:35:23.200
less taxp I like the idea like that spreading it out of it's really just good faith from the taxpayer, right? Like we could say come back in year two, ask for 11 million, all of a sudden we push up 5 million in year two. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

542
02:35:23.200 --> 02:35:40.319
>> Because the do doesn't control the timing of it or they just see the 11 million. >> Yeah. But am I saying something public? I >> No, no, my question. I'm just saying there's cynics out there like that. Where are these hypothetical mustache trolling villains that are uh to like

543
02:35:40.319 --> 02:35:56.319
say that they're going to raise the the budget by six million and then raise it by 11? I mean that is um none of those people are going to get reelected meeting or site board certainly not you know >> just one last comment uh thank you shar

544
02:35:56.319 --> 02:36:13.280
that that table that you have that describes specifically what structure is I think that's one of the things that probably needs to be published somewhere so folks can really see you can actually see where the where the deficit is and

545
02:36:13.280 --> 02:36:30.080
most of it retirement on the housing that's like5 million right there >> which which of those cost I don't think you can control um for for the retirement there is ways but I for

546
02:36:30.080 --> 02:36:47.920
example handle they borrow they borrow for for their borrow like 38 would I suggest that >> but there there is ways that you can stabilize pay they just stabilize your payments but it's the same amount of money that

547
02:36:47.920 --> 02:37:04.399
we're paying now health insurance on the other side just a follow on that I guess I'm not wondering like what is wrong with pension obligation bond when borrowing rates are lower than discount rate so if we want to replace based on KMS's 2025

548
02:37:04.399 --> 02:37:21.920
we owe $50 million fiscal 28 to 32 we were bring that down to the present value of today's we were to hand our time board the money the next time we issue debt Wouldn't that be less to just pay debt service at three and a half, four%. >> Yeah. If they invest that money and they lose a ton of money, that's where the

549
02:37:21.920 --> 02:37:38.240
exposure is because then they're >> right. But you'd be satisfying your obligation closer than having to make an 11.4 million payment in 2032. >> Not a lot of communities go that direction because it is risky because you're putting the they put the money in the stock market. They're putting >> Yeah, they're putting like they're going

550
02:37:38.240 --> 02:37:55.040
to do anyways, but you give them money. Yeah, but there Yeah, but there are years that we we have significant losses. You know, there most it averages out to about eight and a half% return every year. But there are years that the rates go down by 12, >> right? That's why it's smooth. So

551
02:37:55.040 --> 02:38:10.800
>> it's smooth, but I do feel like it's it's risky and a lot of people >> have done enough. I guess the question >> he was our treasure [clears throat] if you replace 50 million accept only

552
02:38:10.800 --> 02:38:28.960
the only and I I will use many numbers the only thing that that does it will lower your payments by 1 million per year. Okay your your payments like think of it as your mortgage payments. Okay. >> Yeah. I get it. So um once you do that

553
02:38:28.960 --> 02:38:43.920
the risk associated with it is not even worth it because what happens we have seen years where the prebalance is have gone down. It's just stock market >> it's it's very exposed to the stock market but the problem is that you are

554
02:38:43.920 --> 02:39:01.280
because it's it's retirement you are obligated to pay for it. You're obligated. So then the question becomes is what happens if you cannot meet your retirement contribution? What happens? You leave the people that need it the most can't pay them. What What will

555
02:39:01.280 --> 02:39:19.040
happen? So, so there's a few things that go go with it. Um Andover is a case study. I've looked into it. Broton has done has done it also. Um we see how Massachusetts has done it. I've looked into it. Um we are so close

556
02:39:19.040 --> 02:39:35.439
of being fully funded as long as it doesn't move the way because it's a moving target. We were at 2029. However, we went we >> dropped our discount rate from seven to 6. >> The borrow is still lower than discount. Sorry, the way that we're still on the

557
02:39:35.439 --> 02:39:51.520
hook. If they lose the money, we think we're still on the hook. So, if if they lose a good percentage of it now, they're going to start giving us another assessment and we're paying the debt service. >> But you would have to pay it any place, right? >> Is mandated by the state. Yes. So the

558
02:39:51.520 --> 02:40:07.600
only thing is that you you gain is that >> interest rate arbitrage, right? I understand. >> Yeah. The the payment. So you're paying for example 7 million at 26. If you had borrowed it, you'll probably pay the debt service or hundred million whatever 200 million.

559
02:40:07.600 --> 02:40:23.439
>> Yeah. You have to make $50 million in payments for the next five years. It will be about six million. So you're only saving like a million a year. That's all you say. >> Like a year, right? >> Yeah. But that's all you say. You just paying interest.

560
02:40:23.439 --> 02:40:39.240
>> I hear that we're going to get another 2027 KMS and if it doesn't perform again our payments are going to go up again there's going to have to be poss duty uh to that fund. It just seems like overd

561
02:40:40.240 --> 02:40:55.760
and and the rates need to be like ended at 2.3%. right now like five six um so the what are your savings just you stabilizing everything that's all the same but the difference between them

562
02:40:55.760 --> 02:41:13.840
it's not as big as you that's the way that I see it um but then again you're just paying more interest that way because again you're >> we take down a general obligation bond at market rates for six years or whatever to 2032 it is lower the

563
02:41:13.840 --> 02:41:28.720
discount rate which basically implied interest right correct so it should be in the money I understand that obviously performance of the fund performance >> is a risk but we have that money at risk anyways we still have to make $50 million payments

564
02:41:28.720 --> 02:41:44.720
>> all I'm saying is that the interest that you were paying on that bond for whatever how many years it's a it's guaranteed that you're paying okay if it's invest if the market is performing well you're getting all [clears throat] that money you're getting way more money

565
02:41:44.720 --> 02:42:01.600
than you would be getting from the debt. >> An interesting proposition interest [clears throat] obviously was the past don't know what it is today. No, I looked like it's a great and the other thing to see >> what what the u what end did for example

566
02:42:01.600 --> 02:42:18.720
they they in so they did five or I think 10 years they paid like less um less payments but but then they're just you're just kicking the can down the road >> but you're also tying your debt you're they got a debt ceiling that we can use to borrow you'd be tying up

567
02:42:18.720 --> 02:42:35.359
>> andover's number was crazy comparatively they turned a future liability of almost 550 million to a set number at a lower budget better but still you have to pay >> and but and not override since 03. So I'm just saying obviously it's something I'm interested in obvious because the

568
02:42:35.359 --> 02:42:50.800
discount rate and interest rates at the time we're in a very low trade environment may not last forever for disabilities but we're talking about trying to save million dollars here million dollar there but there is risk involved when you're taking money at a set time and the stock

569
02:42:50.800 --> 02:43:10.640
market you know this is a robust discussion so we have someone online and then I I think we'd want to move on with this. Was it more of the presentation? Angela, you had your patiently waiting to put your hand up, I think. >> Thank you very much, Angela Binda. Um,

570
02:43:10.640 --> 02:43:26.800
town meeting member. I have two things to say about this discussion. The first is um I think um Miss Wellman hit the nail on the head when she said talking about what people will pay. And I think that you need to look back at what

571
02:43:26.800 --> 02:43:42.880
happened at the last override. follow that because what happened was that the town asked people what they were willing to pay for an override and then they patted it. It did not pass. When it went

572
02:43:42.880 --> 02:44:00.399
down to the number that they wanted to pay, then it passed. So, I think that that is very instructional and I don't think most people are looking at the huge budget and saying this is going to get cut. that's not going to get cut.

573
02:44:00.399 --> 02:44:16.960
But I think people are looking at their own wallets and saying I can pay 500, I can pay 800, I can pay a,000, I can pay 1,500. The next thing I want to say is about the tiered system. I am a municipal

574
02:44:16.960 --> 02:44:34.720
employee in a neighboring town, longtime um librarian in Stonem. I have I know select board members. I followed that and it was very confusing when they were talking about the tiered

575
02:44:34.720 --> 02:44:49.920
system. Um it was not clear to residents whether or not the town the the the town administrator the select board could override

576
02:44:49.920 --> 02:45:04.960
what was ever passed. So even if something was passed that it would be a certain amount the first year, certain amount in the second year and certain amount the third year, it was not clear to the residents whether or not that

577
02:45:04.960 --> 02:45:22.880
that would actually be enforcable or whether or not the tenant administrator or suckboard could change that. So I think that I like the idea of layering it in. I think that it's something that people need to think about and make sure

578
02:45:22.880 --> 02:45:41.040
I I what I heard in Stonem I looked online and it seems like it is enforcable. Although when I was in Stonem said no it's not enforceable. I'm not sure what it is. So, I think that if you go with a tiered approach, you need

579
02:45:41.040 --> 02:46:00.000
to be very specific whether or not this is what you're voting for or this could be changed. Um, so anyway, I think that my two points are listen to the residents about what

580
02:46:00.000 --> 02:46:15.920
they are willing to pay and what is the timeline in which they want to pay it. I think those are the most important things. I think that we all know what may or may not be cut, but nobody's watching it, following it that closely.

581
02:46:15.920 --> 02:46:33.600
But we are looking at what we may or may not be paying in in the next couple of years. So thank you. >> Thank you and spend. Okay. I think based on my looking at the presentations a couple more important slides including

582
02:46:33.600 --> 02:46:49.600
maybe getting to spend's point what what might be made. So if you want to finish your presentation. >> Okay. The reason we want you guys to give us a recommendation if an override failed where you would lean towards cash

583
02:46:49.600 --> 02:47:05.600
because it we have to build that budget kind of strategically think about it well in advance because we're not going to know right away. So so this is what would happen at 6.475 which is a number I would not recommend our budget could go up 1.55% our operating budget could go up that

584
02:47:05.600 --> 02:47:23.200
much 6 million just above 79%. All other numbers are, you know, a reduction to the budget. So you can see where that is. There's not one number out there that actually leaves us at level service. So this slide shows the equivalent for

585
02:47:23.200 --> 02:47:38.960
positions we would need to cut to stay at a 3.75% budget. So in blue, you can see these ones here. This is how we split the money currently out to be takeout cost. 63.6% goes to the school and 36.4 4 goes

586
02:47:38.960 --> 02:47:56.000
to the town. And obviously we understand that the you know we want to see what else what are the options in terms of how we split these cuts. Um if we were to go with a $3 million number that's 67 positions. If we split we split it the

587
02:47:56.000 --> 02:48:12.960
way we split the money. 43 would be on the school side and 24 would be on the town side. But if we did a 5050, which nothing's been decided yet, um it would be 34 33. Now down below here, I give you kind of an idea of how many

588
02:48:12.960 --> 02:48:29.840
employees are in the town and how is our FT as real employees. I think even their parsers are counted in the system as you know a full-time equipment even though they're not full-time. So they have 623, we have 249. So, if we were to go with this

589
02:48:29.840 --> 02:48:47.120
option, this $3 million option, the school would see a reduction under the 63.6 option, they would be seeing a 6.9% staff cut if if it all had to come from from staffing, which I feel like we've been running leaning up that there's

590
02:48:47.120 --> 02:49:01.840
probably not a lot of expenses that they can cut at this point. So, we're really I just wanted to kind of put it in perspective of physicians. there may be some things that we can do to bring these numbers down a little bit. So if we were do the 63.6 the way we actually

591
02:49:01.840 --> 02:49:19.279
split the money that would be a 6.9% cut for the school. If we do 5050 at that range it would be a 5.5% cut staffing for the town side because there's less employees. Um if we split it to 36.4 the way we split the money that would be a

592
02:49:19.279 --> 02:49:34.800
9.6% staff reduction. And that would be 50/50 be a 13% reduction in staff. And overall, it's a 7.7% reduction in staff. Those are large

593
02:49:34.800 --> 02:49:50.640
enough cuts that they will be felt across the community. There's just no way that your services would not be impacted by that level of cut. But at this point, I can't see us recommending using half of our attached tool to be up at the top. And we really do need to

594
02:49:50.640 --> 02:50:07.520
start. We we've exhausted all our excess reserves. We really don't have the excess reserves to be looking at one of these bigger numbers. I think we do need down at the bottom. That that's just my opinion. It's not up to me. But I just I wanted to make sure it's clear kind of

595
02:50:07.520 --> 02:50:29.120
if every everything that needs to be cut after this is is from staffing. This is the number of positions we're looking at. It's a pretty scary number. That is all there. >> Oh, another thing I didn't mention is the one thing that we noticed um is that

596
02:50:29.120 --> 02:50:44.240
on the town side um the average employees about 85,000 and 15,000 for benefits. So that was where we'd got 100,000 for what we did here. And what we discovered in talking to the school department, their average salary is about 100. But the benefit side does

597
02:50:44.240 --> 02:50:59.840
show up on the on the town size. That's where it's absorbed. But there is a little bit of a difference there. But we just kind of generally so if they're patting positions that are maybe less than that, you're looking at that's important to note like they're

598
02:50:59.840 --> 02:51:14.880
cutting somebody who's 50,000. And the other thing we discovered through this process sitting with school department is um we really needed to bulk up our unemployment number because municipalities are self-insured for unemployment. So um a person on unemployment, the most they can get is

599
02:51:14.880 --> 02:51:30.319
like a certain amount and for 30 weeks. So that's about $33,100 per person be layoff they could you have exposure there. What I had done was I added 35,000 times 55 people. So the more unemployment I put the more

600
02:51:30.319 --> 02:51:46.000
positions I have to lay off. So it's like you're chasing the target and I'm trying to be conservative but there's another option there. There's an option of saying hey let's agree that this unemployment thing is going to be a problem. Maybe we on a number that's lower because I think I added almost $2

601
02:51:46.000 --> 02:52:02.560
million to the unemployment number for 55 people to be applied for 30 30 weeks. Maybe we make that number more like a million and and agree that we would cover it with pre-cash incomes and higher would reduce some of the staffing. So there are still some triggers that we can pull, but it would

602
02:52:02.560 --> 02:52:18.399
be irresponsible of us not to try and put something in there because we know that we are going to get if you're actually actively laying off, you are going to have some people collecting unemployment for some period of time. And so we do have to have something. The number I put in here is maybe a high

603
02:52:18.399 --> 02:52:33.920
number for 30 weeks. Maybe if I be realistic, who knows? But I put into this number that you're seeing with the three million at 55 positions at 35,000. So hopefully that's a heightened burden and that's maybe something we can work

604
02:52:33.920 --> 02:52:51.359
down to try and bring the positions down. If we can agree on you know putting a good baseline number there that might be a little bit more realistic maybe not all these people will be on it for this is not at the point of us. So that's that's a conversation to have to but keep that in

605
02:52:51.359 --> 02:53:06.800
mind when you're looking at that. I had to increase our unfunding dramatically to account for this level. >> We don't have any contracts that have like severance agreements beyond unemployment. >> The town the only the only contract we have is that you're right. So there's no

606
02:53:06.800 --> 02:53:23.359
other than bargaining stuff. Yeah. Nobody's under contract. Speaking of contract, there's not places where instead of having employees, it would be cheaper for us to hire contractors that we don't have to pay benefits to because that already been

607
02:53:23.359 --> 02:53:39.200
done where we can't. I know we have a lot of maintenance contracts with facilities department um to do a lot of that kind of >> that's why we've been able to get away with four maintenance for over a million.

608
02:53:39.200 --> 02:53:54.479
>> Yeah. Well, I know like the high school at Coolage, you're on a maintenance contract. Well, that had I looked at the school budget that had gone up. I know that's not your budget, but in in if in a no override scenario is like selling the Pleasant Street Center

609
02:53:54.479 --> 02:54:12.640
on the table at all or no, right? I know that's kind of the select board's decision, but >> that's a great question. >> You know, when you need you're desperate, you need money. >> Maintenance of the Pleasant Street Center is not So there's Oh, really? Yeah, we've

610
02:54:12.640 --> 02:54:29.040
increased we've increased those those related budgets to but recap. >> We still have it. We have to do something or sell it. I guess we can't just let it >> that's work that's ongoing. >> Are you sure? I thought you did.

611
02:54:29.040 --> 02:54:46.080
I could be wrong. I could probably >> but if it's unoccupied I would hope you wouldn't be spending as much if it's unoccupied it cost more money short but in general like I'd say eating stuff nobody's in there you you don't want to

612
02:54:46.080 --> 02:55:02.960
freeze it >> you don't want to have the value of your property destroyed if you eventually want to sell it that's just a >> you can't that's only like a short-term fix it >> the term the timeline is ideally to have

613
02:55:02.960 --> 02:55:20.760
um either a renter or a buyer sorted out by about the time we open if not >> I jumped in here but I want to ask the committee if they have any comments on these last couple of slides or last

614
02:55:25.600 --> 02:55:47.040
three or What's the regeneration? >> This isn't assuming any regeneration. This is looking at our current estimate of cash like this is just saying like if every person's worth about $100,000, we've got to cut this much money. That's

615
02:55:47.040 --> 02:56:04.399
that's what we're looking at. >> Regeneration doesn't affect this. Regeneration affects what will recal cash balance be after this? and so which we care about because we don't want that number. >> We do care but I don't think it's a number that you can come up with right now. I mean I will say that I do believe

616
02:56:04.399 --> 02:56:20.160
that fiscal 28 will have a lot of regeneration simply because I had to build full year of cost buildings. So utilities and the four new um employees that would be hired, they may not be a whole year, but in order to have a good baseline, if you're going to go for an

617
02:56:20.160 --> 02:56:34.720
override, you want to have those costs fully loaded for a whole year so that you're not trying to next year add in the difference. Oh, I put in 25% now next year I got to add 75%. Like if you're going to go for an override, you want to have those buildings covered at 100% even though they're not be expended

618
02:56:34.720 --> 02:56:51.600
at that. So there is February >> I mean they're not going to be there the entire year but they're budgeted as if they were and that that piece of it does tell you that there's a fair amount of regeneration that come back to us. It just the number is a little unknown

619
02:56:51.600 --> 02:57:13.680
not knowing exactly the date. >> Okay. Well, we have um >> I'm sorry is did anyone have anything else to say? >> I mean I'll Are we are we discussing our free cash usage recommendations? >> I guess that's what we're getting to kind of to lead leading to maybe a

620
02:57:13.680 --> 02:57:29.040
recommended override amount slashf free cash usage. We could take a straw >> binding or non-binding vote, but a representation of how we feel. I I will say I've been scrolling through the captions of our last meeting and I see where the misunderstanding was between

621
02:57:29.040 --> 02:57:45.359
me and Jane about what we should be discussing in this meeting and so I will take responsibility for that hour and 26 minutes if you watch it yourself but anyway >> oh okay >> so yeah that's where that's where you said I want to know how much free I where I said do you want a

622
02:57:45.359 --> 02:58:01.359
recommendation on override amount and you said I want a recommendation on free cash and except that's not what I heard I see. I see. I see it now. >> So, >> we can still take take a recommending an override not. So, I

623
02:58:01.359 --> 02:58:17.600
guess if we start looking, do we want to look at the red sheet or do we have does anyone have another proposal like in between the two based on I don't know if a couple of slides back had the different >> Yeah, that one with the green. I know

624
02:58:17.600 --> 02:58:32.960
it's tiered, but it also kind of gives us a few amounts. So this one here, >> yeah, I mean this is more amounts than what's on this this it doesn't just go from six and a half to 11. It has in between numbers. >> Is this what the the select board

625
02:58:32.960 --> 02:58:49.520
discussed? No, I'm just giving to you example so you can see kind of what an impact be if we did something spreadable the board some of the members expressed an interest in what this would look like and so I asked Sharon to make the slide um and and build it out and I like how

626
02:58:49.520 --> 02:59:06.880
she she gave some options here so you know this gives a a pretty good baseline could go >> especially where there's things that were requested we could not find >> and I think you know to the point Miss Bindy, knowing what the public's willing

627
02:59:06.880 --> 02:59:22.240
to pay is a factor. I don't know if we know that. And I think also with the last override, making it real by like people saying, "Oh, we're going to cut middle school language and we're going to cut these things that we had the advocacy groups for running that got got

628
02:59:22.240 --> 02:59:38.800
people interested too." But they all there it was also so do we have an idea what we think people would willing be willing to pay? I think it's going to throw out like an 500. [clears throat] We know you know 800 900 or so and that can go down. It's coming on recalcul. So

629
02:59:38.800 --> 02:59:54.319
we're adding on top of that. So do we think not another thousand? Do we have an idea that does anyone have any thoughts might just take straw hles in somebody's mouth? I'm not sure what to do. >> Or do you want to look at this one where

630
02:59:54.319 --> 03:00:11.520
you can see all the impacts? >> Okay. Yeah, maybe that's that maybe that's >> that one there is just showing spreading it out but the numbers have the same >> the total end up being the same either way. >> Well the total take all that number and then add in what's

631
03:00:11.520 --> 03:00:27.439
what would come on recal and kill because we have to >> I think that recal and kill was that but the average tax was about $1,000 between both of them with the fully loaded budgets that are coming in lower. So I'm expecting that second tranch debt to

632
03:00:27.439 --> 03:00:44.479
come in lower but I did borrow like 60% of your orig. So so I see that 568 first the first trunch I don't know if you round that up but for all of those numbers I feel like I want to add six or 700 and then say

633
03:00:44.479 --> 03:01:01.520
can someone tolerate that? >> Yeah. So I definitely feel like 12 and over is not out of the league right now, but I don't know. >> Senator Chair, >> I just wanted to add to your conversation that you know the select

634
03:01:01.520 --> 03:01:16.960
board is is also split right now and there are conversations on is it one number or two numbers. So I think it'd be helpful if finance committee had an opinion and maybe >> the one number two. >> Is there a tiered presentation? Are we

635
03:01:16.960 --> 03:01:37.560
offering residents a higher number and number or are we offering stone last a higher number lower number the most votes over 50%. >> That's right. Did three tiers pass

636
03:01:42.240 --> 03:01:59.760
>> maybe passed at the high level >> pass the lower. So, um you know, it just I think it it gives uh voters choice and u more control and I think empowering voters is important um would be my opinion. Um

637
03:01:59.760 --> 03:02:17.600
>> they passed 15 million 54. Oh, they >> I thought they like the first possibly ever for that. It was some historical amount. And obviously this was the last >> failed at some number like 11 million.

638
03:02:17.600 --> 03:02:33.200
>> Weird. >> They weren't like, "Oh my god, we're going to have to fire teachers if we don't do this." >> Right. And if you don't say it right, >> I think that was >> I think Mel Rose and Stone are more are better comparisons to us than

639
03:02:33.200 --> 03:02:57.600
Winchester. Manchester, but they also had over >> they had so many >> I think they had one in 201 more residential as we are in terms of like the commercial part is as well is a

640
03:02:57.600 --> 03:03:13.120
little bit more commercial. >> All right. So trying to think I don't do we all right can we take a vote tiered or or I'm just curious whether we don't have to decide on the tiered but do we like tears or do we want a single amount

641
03:03:13.120 --> 03:03:32.160
who wants go ahead John >> ti is as in comes in over time or >> multiple options >> multiple options I'm sorry you know multiple options So I guess maybe to be clear

642
03:03:32.160 --> 03:03:46.720
>> how many >> how many of us like it for I'm just curious how many of us like multiple options >> so and how many of us want a single option >> I do too I like my comment on that is I understand the attraction of a tier

643
03:03:46.720 --> 03:04:02.800
because it's called a marketing gimmick but usually you put a higher number that's aspirational people say absolutely not and the number below it's feels comfortable so that is a high higher likel of passage But I don't know if the select board would feel that way. The three [clears throat] out of five

644
03:04:02.800 --> 03:04:19.920
want to do that this close because they some feel we are rushing into this. So I don't know if it even makes >> no I heard that this is all very hard to do by November. Go ahead. >> So can I ask can I say my perspective as a doesn't matter how many years if I cannot vote.

645
03:04:19.920 --> 03:04:35.439
>> So regardless how many years you have people that cannot afford just vote. I'm just concerned that we don't have a lot of time to educate people people based on the current environment for a lot of people. So >> we also have the benefit of the second

646
03:04:35.439 --> 03:04:52.319
bite of the apple in spring. Not ideal but I do we all aware of that as well as god forbid if both failed or the only one we present failed. we have time to tune up these numbers and reapproach in spring with a more targeted number which I assume would be lower than all of these which still may lead to cuts of

647
03:04:52.319 --> 03:05:07.600
some kind but it may not be as dramatic as >> so I guess with the tears say the lowest tier passed it and we don't like it we're not going to come back another say both both were to fail like stone well stone failed the first >> stone's first one was like 14 something

648
03:05:07.600 --> 03:05:22.960
>> you know if hypothetically if they were to put 11 and eight I don't think both those are best. They both fail. And then you have to go back to the voters with probably the likely winner for the beginning six and a half spring which again to the average voter will say well I couldn't

649
03:05:22.960 --> 03:05:39.120
afford 1,200 really don't want to pay 800 but I can I can stomach 550 whatever >> you can put that option up front too. >> Again it's lower turnout generally if it's spring election however obviously better turn out in the fall with

650
03:05:39.120 --> 03:05:55.120
this is so okay. So the timing of the thing is not on our agenda. >> No, >> I have opinions and especially related to like when things are more likely to pass and which sort of things are more likely to pass in a high turnout election versus low one or that matter

651
03:05:55.120 --> 03:06:11.120
how natural politics affects turnout, the nature of the turnout. But that's on the agenda. So I should shut up. >> Well, the thing no, we but we if we're recommending an amount, we're recommending an amount for what election, right? We're not recommending it out for the spring election. It's

652
03:06:11.120 --> 03:06:26.640
like we could recommend an amount. It's like when you could punt it and say no, we're going we're not putting it on. >> So which again is what's process a little >> I know. Uh because you know the select board's prerogative as executive to put

653
03:06:26.640 --> 03:06:42.640
it on. I think we should be evaluating after they decide but we're kind of flipping it and trying to give them recommendations but at the end of the day it's all >> so we've kind of favored a tiered approach. We can just come out with what what we think. >> So now we get to

654
03:06:42.640 --> 03:07:01.680
Okay. Do we want two tiers? Do we want three tiers? >> Is that Do we think it's too confusing? Are we thinking like the marketing that oh people might go for the middle? Three seems like a lot. >> Madam Chair, >> yes. Well, and since you guys are

655
03:07:01.680 --> 03:07:16.240
discussing this, I just wanted to let you know that um I just wanted to remind you all that at town meeting, we also voted to put um the CPA on the ballot in November. >> Some of us did not vote for that.

656
03:07:16.240 --> 03:07:33.920
>> Yeah. Well, town meeting as a body voted for it and I had forgotten >> but but it adds I think it adds complexity to the ballot and I just so we did touch we did talk about it and I just wanted to make sure you guys were consistent and knew that. >> Yeah, that's that's not on our agenda

657
03:07:33.920 --> 03:07:49.439
and we kind of know I think it's 90 to $100. Well, you don't need to discuss it, but but if you pick um if you pick three options, understand it's three options plus CPA to figure out versus one option in CPA versus two options in

658
03:07:49.439 --> 03:08:06.479
CPA versus apparently our town clerk said that we could have a town meeting and and change the CPA ballot. So, >> yeah. >> And that cost the town money, too. That's why we some of us thought CPA was

659
03:08:06.479 --> 03:08:21.680
premature. But let's get back to So I think we think maybe two options, but I don't know if these two best options. Go ahead. >> So first thing I want to say is that my preference for two options versus one is

660
03:08:21.680 --> 03:08:37.359
not strong. Um I mean it's based on the idea that you know actually in part of it is a reaction to the fact that the timeline that because like to not bring this forward any sooner talking about we've got you know four or five months to do this basically. Um this does give

661
03:08:37.359 --> 03:08:52.720
the voters some input in a way that we couldn't solicited from them. You know >> it maybe this is a straw poll. This ends up being a poll of the voters what they'll >> they'll take. I don't know like maybe like say we put six and a half and 11 or six and a half and 10 and neither one

662
03:08:52.720 --> 03:09:08.319
passed. Now we have a baseline of okay we have to go lower and use more free cash. >> Yes I I am confused at the well I find some people are very sure that this is doomed and some people are not. Um, so

663
03:09:08.319 --> 03:09:24.880
I'm not so sure that anyone should be so sure, but that's so can I make this first recommendation based on what I personally think >> it's a option. >> Um,

664
03:09:24.880 --> 03:09:40.479
and and this is Chris's point. Um, I would go with the option to the personal option at 7.5 million and free cash use of 2 million and then the uh higher

665
03:09:40.479 --> 03:09:57.680
option of 11 million with no cash no free cash use at all. So that will be and then it gets into a conversation we're going to uh smooth it out for three years or not. That's that doesn't have to be on valid. No, no, we wouldn't

666
03:09:57.680 --> 03:10:13.439
put it on. >> So that's so that's a new point. That's just uh so and and >> well it's to his point. If >> we [clears throat] have to be realistic here if it if it fails okay and you have

667
03:10:13.439 --> 03:10:28.800
to go back to we're going to go with another amount >> and the other >> the other amount is 6.5 million. Well, the other thing you just said too pertinent to the CPA, the difference between six and a half and seven and a half is almost the amount of the CPA.

668
03:10:28.800 --> 03:10:44.640
Like I'm trying to doom CPA, but people some people, and it was my thought, if I have to pay an extra $100, I'd rather have it keep teachers than I, you know, fund more playgrounds. And I love playgrounds, but people might make a

669
03:10:44.640 --> 03:11:00.479
preference, and that's just me. But people might want to say, "I want my extra hundred to go where the town needs it most," not for some limited options. Or people might say, "No, I want CPA and I'll I'll pay less." I don't know. >> You want a little bit that the state

670
03:11:00.479 --> 03:11:18.960
kicks in to match. >> Yeah. >> CP. >> Yeah. >> But it was nice when it came to >> Well, I does anyone just >> No, that's a that's a good proposal. I guess I >> I'm wondering what's the free cash usage

671
03:11:18.960 --> 03:11:35.439
at 10 million. 10 million just sounds better than 11, but that's still some free cash. >> How about 11.9? >> I mean I >> So my thoughts so 11. So going to a regime

672
03:11:35.439 --> 03:11:53.439
of no free cash usage when we know we're going to have regeneration. In fact, we know it's probably going to be four in FI28. Uh, and we are spending on capital in the operating budget, which is what other towns spend free cash on. That

673
03:11:53.439 --> 03:12:10.560
seems like that seems excessive. That seems like we are taxing people and just putting the money in free cash for no reason. >> And then people did resent, oh, this free cash. How did it grow to 19 million? I know it was co and other things, but people got like, why am I paying so this time? I think it would be

674
03:12:10.560 --> 03:12:27.279
if we went straight for >> no one no one wants to see it grow but but then we need that 15 to 20% for borrowing that people have to understand >> well the the borrowing question it's funny I'm hearing so I I understand Sharon saying that like 7% might not cut up AAA but I've also heard other people

675
03:12:27.279 --> 03:12:41.600
asking and I I share the question of like well okay but like how much is it really worth like >> to you know to eat AAA versus >> whatever double A philos so forth um that that you know missing 15 might cost

676
03:12:41.600 --> 03:12:57.920
us AAA but also costing us AAA but it's not the end of the world. It's kind of both of those things pushing in both directions. Um yeah, I would I'd be okay with a higher tier but only with the expectation we would be using

677
03:12:57.920 --> 03:13:14.720
free cash and we would be rolling it in gradually something like the the other slide that we were looking at. So then the upper level you're thinking could be lower than 11 using a little pre-cash. >> Yeah. I mean whatever the upper level is I would want to see. I mean I think

678
03:13:14.720 --> 03:13:31.840
actually like a $200 difference seven and a 7.5 million right if you started that and $200 more is about it's between nine and 10 million right? >> Yeah >> like 7.5 comment in theory. I agree with

679
03:13:31.840 --> 03:13:49.120
Joe's point. I mean there are some people that are trying to get away from free cash use at all but the con regeneration supports using free cash for hard capital assets we touch I was actually willing to support it free cash use that almost match funds the CIP as long as it's generation and we meet the

680
03:13:49.120 --> 03:14:05.359
benefit obviously I was based on the 7% sounds like our guidance probably be up closer to 10 we should be moving the extra interest we're getting into stabilization it'd be a lot easier if our stabilization was closer to five so you basically never hit a minimum. That'd be great.

681
03:14:05.359 --> 03:14:19.920
But if you look at the green, yellow, red, if you were to basically say $3 million cash use across the board, now it's just eight, seven, six. Now you crunch that down all the way to just the top three. Now you're basically telling

682
03:14:19.920 --> 03:14:35.600
people we could save everything by using free cash responsibly. We're not going to use the overranking budget. The highest number we'll need is 8 million. It's 906. If you were to sell it that would if you were to tar it, you would say if everything say the same. If you want

683
03:14:35.600 --> 03:14:50.960
more firefighters, more cops, if you want to keep your weekly recycling, we're going to use three million of free cash and we're going to do an overhead for 8 million and hopefully it cuts us to fiscal 32. And the second tier is a lower number. That's six and a half.

684
03:14:50.960 --> 03:15:09.600
Seven and a half and a half and eight. We're not going to have those two ti includes weekly recycling. So, it's a kind of massage in the numbers, but if you want to have that, I mean, this that's a lot of scary numbers, but if we're not even really considering anything over eight, then I wouldn't

685
03:15:09.600 --> 03:15:25.200
present it. Um if we were to I say agree recommend obviously the decision doesn't happen until spring that uh we as a board are willing to consider using a number of free cash that's basically a a match peg to CIP spend whether it's 100%

686
03:15:25.200 --> 03:15:42.080
coverage 80% coverage or some other I feel comfortable as long as generation continues. So I believe the draft number we saw was 4.9 but as Sharon explained to me u 2.5 I would hope to do it is extra interest because of rates currently and rates are probably going to keep staying higher. So we're

687
03:15:42.080 --> 03:15:57.279
probably going to keep having investment income way above budget and I believe that money should stop. >> Those are my multiple sense. >> Anyone else? >> Can I just add on the realm of like

688
03:15:57.279 --> 03:16:11.680
what's the voters's appetite? Everyone I've talked to so far is like if the override is going to give me what I'm getting that's great but the minute you start adding stuff I have a problem with it. And so I think agree please say you

689
03:16:11.680 --> 03:16:27.760
know seven it's eight we use three three in free cash to balance but we're like oh well this gets you this gets you what you have plus we're adding four new firefighters right >> yeah people don't I can take that that's 1.2 2 million. I don't have to have that.

690
03:16:27.760 --> 03:16:43.600
>> Right. So I I think the minute this is an add what we have instead of the messaging of if we don't do this we lose. Right. I I think people see the need to have before the next step. And >> that that's the thing right something

691
03:16:43.600 --> 03:16:58.720
that you're getting from voting right. We have a structural deficit. They're just filling the gap. They're not actually getting inflation that we might not be getting. >> We are we already bought something new. got a new school and a new and a new building. Got you spent your money. Party's over. Now we

692
03:16:58.720 --> 03:17:15.040
>> just use it. >> So I'm starting to to say we just propose 8 million. I don't >> and and the 8 million, you know, the other part of that is it it will last you have that discipline that we're

693
03:17:15.040 --> 03:17:31.680
talking about cash and and capital. You know, it's gonna it's going to last longer. You know, it gets us closer than So it's not maybe Chris you convinced me to back away between the other things to back. Does anyone else

694
03:17:31.680 --> 03:17:47.120
have a turn of mind that >> that seems to be the biggest way >> right? I know we're not voting can't about >> thousand. It's like that mental number of going >> and again that could change again there's so many variables the calculator can be updated if you have some time until November but to guide the select board if they're if they're looking for

695
03:17:47.120 --> 03:18:02.479
guidance to be honest with you might not just do anything [clears throat] but um I personally not am comfortable with using a number of recaps to help guide them to work hard >> technically won't happen till fall and spring and by then we'll know what

696
03:18:02.479 --> 03:18:18.319
happens we'll know what happens fall >> this is starting to get me away from having two tears you know, so we all >> So I'm going to anyone want to make >> just if I see 8 million, I just look at 8 million. It's not that I'm just going to

697
03:18:18.319 --> 03:18:33.279
No, with the hope that it's going to be a lot less number next time. >> I see. Yeah, we paired it. Would we pair eight six and a half or something? I mean that >> that was I kind of you know I like the I mean this is what Chris was saying a

698
03:18:33.279 --> 03:18:49.200
second ago of like there's a eight plus three million free cash is the no cuts option or maybe we make it you know actually this thing >> yeah if you were to pick off firefighters and cops but if there was

699
03:18:49.200 --> 03:19:05.040
we're not adding anything we're simply keeping it the way everything we're very happy is that number >> 9.3 or whatever whatever it is and then for dash this is more for the benefit of the slight obviously to >> no no where I'm not following you so

700
03:19:05.040 --> 03:19:20.800
take approach >> so this obviously a big gap between 6.5 and 11 if you were to say again people see you were adding fire >> by the way there it is there to >> that comes out what that number

701
03:19:20.800 --> 03:19:35.600
>> you think 1.2 million right so if you backed off 1.2 2 million from 11 million 9.8 >> and that's what your structural deficit 9.8 over the idea >> you're 11 million take so it's 9.8 8

702
03:19:35.600 --> 03:19:54.800
million and then with no free cash support you you restored financial. So that's what that >> question would recover things and then we would have cash again, >> right? But again, we'd be using it at a

703
03:19:54.800 --> 03:20:10.880
rate that is actually in line with regeneration which >> and we would be using it I mean I love I love the tying it to the capital spending as a policy when we get to future agendas. I'm gonna be excited about that. >> Okay. So could we if we go so we were

704
03:20:10.880 --> 03:20:28.760
thinking away from tears but we wanted to give people an option if we said 9.8 and 7.8 because then 7.8 is almost eight but they're still separated by 2 million or >> I don't know >> where did 9.8 come from. >> I'm just I was just delta in back from

705
03:20:29.040 --> 03:20:46.560
the exact structural deficit >> exact amount of prec >> and it gets under 10 too. Okay. >> But the but the impact on the bill is still not enough for a thousand. >> All right. >> And then 7.8 gets us closer to what we really want of the eight.

706
03:20:46.560 --> 03:21:21.760
>> Yeah. Or I mean even 9.8 free cash will increase though. >> I'm sorry. >> At 9.8 free cash interest more than 3 million ret you're right I mean I still okay but 9.8 and

707
03:21:21.760 --> 03:21:37.439
>> I think Marian if we we had god forbid a fourth tier that was like [laughter] and that said 9.8 and then I accounted for using 3 million now it's my >> okay >> but that's the number but again if you're not some people are sensitive

708
03:21:37.439 --> 03:21:57.120
about adding staff >> right the 9.8 8 assumes 3 million free cash. >> The financial forecast just so you can see. Okay, this is what we started off with a 3.75% budget which is >> I'm going to need 9.8.

709
03:21:57.120 --> 03:22:18.080
>> Okay, let me just show you. >> Yeah. >> Okay, this is >> not this is what we started off with. It was 3.75 with community priorities added in or the additional cost related to the new buildings for the community priority to

710
03:22:18.080 --> 03:22:32.640
get the school to where they need to be. And I think we have another community priority in there for $60,000 because we cut a cruiser last year. >> 3.75 is the yellow on this middle. >> 3.75 is right here. >> Oh, no. I just meant like it corresponds

711
03:22:32.640 --> 03:22:48.720
to the yellow. Yes. Okay. Now, the structural deficit is 9.8 million for that budget, but we are assuming that we're going to still use some free cash. Um, which is how we got to the 6.5. We were going to use $3 million of free

712
03:22:48.720 --> 03:23:05.680
cash. And then if you remember, um, Jade said she would still want to restructure a little bit on the town side and eliminate some positions or, you know, have some cuts still within the town budget to make that 6.5 a more digestible number because I feel like the lower we get this number, the more

713
03:23:05.680 --> 03:23:21.439
likely that people will be able to say yes to it. So the structural deficit here is 9.8, but we are still planning to use pre-cash to bring that number down. But when you look at how that number grows with the assumptions we have in here,

714
03:23:21.439 --> 03:23:38.080
>> it's it's mindboggling. And that's where the 14 comes in. But if we were to continue to say I were willing to put two mill$ two and a.5 million at all times, this 11.7 is where we'd be at, you know, fiscal 32 if >> we get our three million back.

715
03:23:38.080 --> 03:23:53.920
>> Maybe >> we we right. The one thing I will say is that in these assumptions, our assumptions, as I said, for benefits being at 10% for a couple years and then going down to 87. And if those things come in lower, that really helps our budget. It helps us that money lasts

716
03:23:53.920 --> 03:24:10.239
longer. But right now, I don't know anything different than what the Maya is telling us. They're telling us go with double digits right now. And so that 9.8 we know to be real. But everything in the future has got assumptions into it that could be better than what I'm saying. I I tend to be conservative because I'm asking them and they're not

717
03:24:10.239 --> 03:24:26.399
giving me good numbers and I'm going to use what they tell me because I know nothing different. >> Well, they're better than we can fix our stabilization front. >> Exactly. So, so that this is where the number starts is this 9.8 and how much willingness we are to use free cash. Now, in the entire time I've been here

718
03:24:26.399 --> 03:24:42.080
14 years, there has not been one year that we have not regenerated $3 million. So, I do think three million is a safe number. I think the last couple years we're closer to make that 4.8 8 million. So we would still be building free cash, you know, bringing up free cash to bring

719
03:24:42.080 --> 03:24:56.960
up to that 15% that we're after. So that's kind of how we got to the 6.5 is assuming that we would be continuing to use some baseline level of cash kind of tied to the capital as we talked about. This budget here, 3.75 has almost $4

720
03:24:56.960 --> 03:25:15.040
million of capital in it. 3,989 is in that budget right now. So we could use that um if we wanted to kind of make that our new policy in this particular one, but we kind of defaulted to three because I know three is regeneratable and we start to rebuild some of what we

721
03:25:15.040 --> 03:25:32.481
put in out of our reserves. So I think we fell at three for that reason because I know that we'll regenerate and start to rebuild back to that 15% we're looking for, but also it is tied very closely to capital. So I am definitely more confused

722
03:25:32.481 --> 03:25:49.520
[clears throat] now because this talks about 9.5 6.5 million plus 3 to 3.3 million in pre-cache usage plus a lot of cuts. >> So it all like these are not the this is

723
03:25:49.520 --> 03:26:06.399
not increasing as much like getting >> the only cuts that are on the yellow are the taking out the recycling. We weren't able to keep that in. Okay. Some staffing staffing. >> You talk about cutting three positions. That's three to $500,000. >> Three to five positions. It's not 60

724
03:26:06.399 --> 03:26:22.479
positions. >> Well, of course, of course. But I'm just trying to figure out like the math. >> I think that's three to So, she's expecting three to five positions to be about $300,000 savings. You bring that down to 9.5. Then you take $3 million away from it and that's how you get to six and a half. So she's expecting if

725
03:26:22.479 --> 03:26:38.239
she has to cut two or three positions because she isn't done restructuring and being the new town manager she would be doing that exercise in her first year. If she was to cut 300,000 from this budget that would go down to 9.5 use $3 million and that's how we got to six

726
03:26:38.239 --> 03:26:52.800
million. >> So what's so what's partial about partial restoration services? The three to five positions >> and like you're putting back road mitigation. It's like all the things you're completely taking away. We're

727
03:26:52.800 --> 03:27:08.000
putting back part of it. >> Yeah. >> But not but not I mean >> but the schools do get their >> also priority just get rid of the instructional your 6.5 is not that you know financial

728
03:27:08.000 --> 03:27:24.640
help every time. >> You're still going to have you still require free cash and you're going that number will still increase out over time. So that's maybe we don't call it partial risk >> match here. Okay. So I've been uh

729
03:27:24.640 --> 03:27:42.000
Mark's questions about regeneration have gone nowhere until now. But now I'm they're they're what I'm thinking about because it to me if we regenerate at least $3 million a year and we need $98 million to balance budget. That's a $6.8 million structural deficit because

730
03:27:42.000 --> 03:27:58.239
>> next year >> well disclosure I understand people on this committee knows that's a plug but for a disclosure a lot easier to visualize as a typical person if we were to change that line to free cash for articles and say three million across then the next

731
03:27:58.239 --> 03:28:15.120
one says structural deficit of six and then eight and nine it's a lot clearer for people to understand >> you mean showing the deficit on us I Yes, >> it's generally we don't normally I mean people don't res go this is where that would be like if I were to change this

732
03:28:15.120 --> 03:28:34.560
>> at the end but >> but if I would put that here you would see it down here >> when I read I wasn't a finer I go I don't see the problem the balance says they're using free cash >> yeah a lot of freak out >> there's got to be a disclosure to say in

733
03:28:34.560 --> 03:28:50.720
rent means danger But if we're going to not say commit, we're not going to vote. If there's an assumption we're using 3 million of free cash for capital, it's very clear this tangent and there's a structural deficit. If that is clear to voters that 6.8 or 6.5 and then as the

734
03:28:50.720 --> 03:29:07.520
years go by.3 million each year, this is where they'll see >> scroll down a little. >> Yes. Yes. >> That's where they'll see. The problem is is that most people don't know our financial forecast that well and they wouldn't look for this number. If we were to market, you know, make this a little more

735
03:29:07.520 --> 03:29:22.960
>> when I show when I show when I show like when I'm showing how much patch is needed, I'm trying to tell them this is how much I need to make this balance. >> They don't know that exist. >> Marketing the information

736
03:29:22.960 --> 03:29:38.800
is how it happened. >> You know, you ask for a table to kind of grab what's happening. This is not what the town's putting out and it's not what a pro ballot committee group or an anti- ballot committee group would put out I

737
03:29:38.800 --> 03:29:55.359
like your ideas we will talk as someone who before I became involved and I read that I looked at this as we have balanced budget for five years but I also don't know what the balance of free cash is because it's not on there it's a separate thing >> the average taxpayer must think well if

738
03:29:55.359 --> 03:30:10.239
they're going to put it there must mean they have it >> but we don't know >> we do have it but it's more than it's >> year 2030 I don't think we No, it will be gone if we don't pass it over, >> especially if minimum reserves. >> We had some of the spreadsheet where the

739
03:30:10.239 --> 03:30:27.040
free cash was like down to nothing. >> But I would >> I get that, but I mean understanding is that we need to say free cash remaining and then like free cash used, free cash remaining. >> But I'm not worried about that. Let's get that.

740
03:30:27.040 --> 03:30:42.399
>> All right. So, let's we we want to move on. Let's try. So, do we we back to tears or a single amount? We're going all over the place. We come up with something. >> Chris wasn't here suggested 98 and 68. >> Um I I think it's it's probably going to

741
03:30:42.399 --> 03:30:58.080
be >> I think Enry wanted a lower option and you said eight. >> If there was eight was the highest option and if there would be a lower option I think it's going to be either six and a half or seven. I'm not experience preference but that's under the assumption that u use some sort of

742
03:30:58.080 --> 03:31:15.760
reach um to do that. So obviously I think 11 is not >> 11. So as again we want to scare people down to eight from 11. >> I'm not sorry. >> So

743
03:31:15.760 --> 03:31:32.960
>> I like I like the idea of having people get have feel like they have some agency but two choices but they have to be acceptable choices. We know six six and a half isn't great but it's acceptable. But we have to be prepared to live with that. Yeah, >> it may be a short time. One thing I

744
03:31:32.960 --> 03:31:49.439
would like to just add just to visit slide. I know you're saying we are regenerating because we're getting invest and that won't last forever. That that's something to keep in mind, but we do have evidence of our cost going up 9.5 million more than what%.

745
03:31:49.439 --> 03:32:06.640
So we really do have a structural deficit that has been growing just because we're generating some investment income but by the way that we can't really rely on every year because we don't know what's going to happen to the economy. We have to be very conservative about how we project investment income because prior to inflation and prior to

746
03:32:06.640 --> 03:32:22.000
interest rates going up we were getting two $300,000 in investment income and now we're getting like four or five million. I can't include five million knowing that it could potentially go down. So, it's really a hard number because we're really getting some numbers here from investment income that

747
03:32:22.000 --> 03:32:37.600
we can't count on being there in the long term. The other thing is is we we borrow this money and while we're holding money, we are investing and we're getting money that's that isn't going to be we're investing money that's not going to be there in the future. We're going to spend it on the project. So, there's a lot of things at play

748
03:32:37.600 --> 03:32:54.560
here. I know that we'll get the $3 million, but I still do believe that you really do have this deficit here in the background. we, you know, they tell you don't don't use pre-cash as part of your operating budget because, you know, it's not a good practice. I think that we're justified in doing it because we we do

749
03:32:54.560 --> 03:33:09.760
have this discipline built into our budget, but I still believe that we can document that our our costs have gone up well above $6.5 million. So, I sense this this board does doesn't want to present to the taxpayer a no

750
03:33:09.760 --> 03:33:27.120
free cash usage even within that. would want to count on >> if not the three million some amount of it because that's just going to be a lot. >> So six and a half and eight sound like two yeah sound okay there's a difference between the two and do we want to

751
03:33:27.120 --> 03:33:42.800
>> all the logic for 7.5 ones that you did a bit of buffer 500k and that buffer can come out of the free cash use so we are still going towards using that free cash and now since we been using so much

752
03:33:42.800 --> 03:33:59.439
precach. >> Yeah. I mean, you're not going to put seven pick one or you're going to have a delta between the two. >> So, >> that's >> all right. >> And then if if it fails, you default to six.

753
03:33:59.439 --> 03:34:14.479
>> I I hear what you're saying about about wanting to have a lower option, but I don't want to like assume failure here. I keep hearing that. What's that's planning just for >> the other you go with a higher number in the beginning you're using no free cash

754
03:34:14.479 --> 03:34:29.920
which gives you more labor in the years to come for the unexpected to use cash. You have to kind of look at it in different perspectives. I mean we are planning that lower number to use 3 million but you could look at it and say if we did get the higher number right off the cuff we could go to zero for

755
03:34:29.920 --> 03:34:45.309
three cash and start building up and have more years. So I you got to look at it a lot of different ways in terms of because we're seeing like no end in sight for some of the inflation benefits and we don't know you know >> which I mean if if higher tier

756
03:34:45.309 --> 03:35:02.560
[clears throat] option I mean I'm not I still don't like a no free cash option in year one >> um you know if we pass a higher tier I would think that that would be what you know I would want I would want to see that as a as a gradual production. So,

757
03:35:02.560 --> 03:35:17.279
you know, >> a higher tier buys us more time. >> Exactly. Because we basically get, you know, instead of having to vote on a $6 million override now and a $3 million override in three years, we could just vote on the bigger override and but only

758
03:35:17.279 --> 03:35:33.520
raise my taxes this much >> smaller, right? I mean, it's it's you know, actually, >> what if there were two tiers where the tax impact one was the same? confused voters.

759
03:35:33.520 --> 03:35:51.040
>> I know confused voters, but uh they vote for the lower one probably. Yeah. >> All right. Come back and ask, >> you know. No, which is fair. I think that's the link. >> Um so we'll let Tom Wise make a brief

760
03:35:51.040 --> 03:36:07.680
comment then we're gonna pick something. We also don't know what all of these may still not be schools enough. So maybe that's good to hear your job. I'm not going to say too much on the schools, Marian. I just wanted to say um you know, I think you guys have had a vigorous deer debate. You've gone around

761
03:36:07.680 --> 03:36:23.840
in circles, but I think the two numbers are staring in your face, right? I think 9.8 and 6.5 are the two numbers. One gets you fully fully free of free cash and it but it's a big enough difference between 6.5 and you can justify what you're going to get with that. 6.5 is

762
03:36:23.840 --> 03:36:38.319
the number that the town manager is comfortable with, but then you're not going to regenerate as much, so it's not going to last as long. So, I think your two numbers are there. You can obviously go back and forth if you choose. Um, but you you seem to have settled on two

763
03:36:38.319 --> 03:36:59.160
numbers. And the two numbers in my mind are pretty straightforward based upon what we've been presented and what we're seeing here. 6.5 and 9.8. >> We might vote for it. >> We could have 6.58 and 9.8.

764
03:37:00.560 --> 03:37:18.600
6.5 >> 6.5 and 9.5 >> 9.8 I mean >> 9.8 covers the structural but she's going to reduce the position right and get closer to 95 >> if you want to get to 9.5 I'll reduce the position to get to 9.5 >> yeah

765
03:37:19.840 --> 03:37:36.080
still I'm still cutting a lot of people you know at 6.5 um I'm sorry no it's probably the same amount of cuts still at 98 [clears throat] but 9.8 means the structural deficit today it's higher tomorrow I mean it's in FY28 that's

766
03:37:36.080 --> 03:37:53.279
structural deficit it's higher after that we can still with the capital plan sustainable >> okay >> you know I think it puts us in a much stronger financial >> if it passes but it all right so you

767
03:37:53.279 --> 03:38:10.239
wanted 7.5 other people did 6.5 can we split the difference and call it seven and just say seven and 98 So that gives you recycling so I would I would I would I would support

768
03:38:10.239 --> 03:38:27.760
the lower level of seven if and only if part of the idea is give you your weekly recycling at least. >> Oh to go to seven. I guess that would make sense. That would be a fair trade, >> right? I mean that that is a that is a literally everyone has to has trash

769
03:38:27.760 --> 03:38:44.399
recycling. So, I'm going to call for um do we approve two tiers to recommend to the select board? Who knows what they'll do of seven and 9.8. Let's do a vote because it's getting likely. >> We need a motion, right? >> Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. So moved. >> So moved.

770
03:38:44.399 --> 03:39:01.120
>> Okay. Second. And so let's take a vote on seven 9.8. How many of us are Yes. We got one, two. Is it unanimous? >> Oh, good. Yay. Great shot. All right. So that's leg. So same. >> Yeah.

771
03:39:01.120 --> 03:39:22.760
>> So we have a couple of more agenda items and we it's getting late. So I I would say >> yeah I think we don't >> to minutes. >> All right. Second. How many people

772
03:39:23.760 --> 03:39:40.439
>> Yeah. We had the meetings voted to approve minutes first. So >> So what was what was the count of the interment vote? It was >> it was everybody. So we voted seven elect. >> Okay. So I'm sorry.

773
03:39:40.880 --> 03:39:57.920
>> Yeah. >> The select board still needs to be right. >> I think we only have two people on. So we just effect >> we have three people on Karen. >> Okay. Sorry I haven't been able to see you. [clears throat]

774
03:39:57.920 --> 03:40:16.040
>> Um yeah so motion to adjurnn. Um one of you guys >> second. >> Great. Um so um Chris >> yes >> and Karen. >> Yep. >> And Karen Herrick who are adjourned. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you everybody.