e e e I'm tapping unmute here uh if that works there go looks like it work work all right so it's 7 o' it looks like all of us are here although we are hybrid um but I'm calling the uh tonight's meeting
of the finance committee tter uh starting with the roll call vote as we are hybrid uh so let's see um wait is Mark still there um yeah yes Mark Mark Z yes Ed
Ross here Joe MCD here Emily Sison here Maran Downing here Jeffrey Corum here Andre Kum uh John Sullivan here and Joe caran here so welcome everyone to the second of our four straight weeks of of
uh uh fincom budget meetings um uh last time we covered the school budget uh tonight we are covering the big projects uh killum and recal the ones that were before us uh we have a couple other things on the agenda that are somewh more routine finance committee business we have a reserve
transfer request and um uh is the season talk about the snow and ice def spending we did this year um and then next week we will start with the uh Town budget and the financial forecast and that's not going to finish in one night so we
will finish that and uh discuss the town meeting warrant articles other town meeting warrant articles besides the budget on the 19th um it's only been a week since our last meeting yes excuse me can can I call the Kellum School building committee oh yes right you all probably
have and I I'm checking I'll check other things while you do that please go ahead here Nancy here John John C's there I don't see I don't know if anybody else is on but that's for thank you Chris is online
Chris maybe he's just John's on can I call the um permanent building committee recal building committee to order please do uh Nancy Tumi here John
cise Hand Nancy ziml here vat Hopkins here you have a forum thank you all right right uh let's see we have I think we might I think we might have two pyboard members I'll keep an eye out
for a third umen on um yes on Zoom I I see you and I see uh Chris um so if we see anybody else and if you see anybody else please feel free to interrupt me so that you
can you know call Mark join exactly I might expect Mark doxer at some point U given the given the agenda for tonight all right okay we just let us know yeah be about minutes okay all right okay I'll keep an eye out then all right
um are there any other committees that need to call to order no all right um it's only been a week since our last meeting so I there's a placeholder for liais on reports I don't imagine that people have a ton to report in six days but I can just give
an update from last night's select board meeting they had a discussion on the pickle ball project where um I shared the complete and utter shock that the project was proposed at 1.8 um almost $1.9 million for Seven
Courts and there were numerous questions about it and I gathered that there's some value engineering that can be done to bring the cost down along with possibly reduction of a pickle ball court um select board members were comparing costs in other communities
they were explaining about concrete concrete versus asphalt course a lot of considerations too much to tie up a report with but one of the suggestions was and maybe when the um Senior Center folks speak tonight is they felt that there was definite Synergy between that
project and am I correct in saying it it will save money if they're both done at the same time because of the drilling of putting in Transformers for lights yeah it could it could so I don't you know to the extent that's a
financial concern um it's something that is going to go on the warrant but not you know this this seems to be some range of of price now on that but that happened last night all right thanks U I realized usually the first bullet on the
agenda is a token welcome one but actually and then public comment will come after that we don't have that so um I want to are there other in reports I think selectboard there aren a lot of committees besides sard that has met school committee did meet um one issue that might come up in the future um the
state approved a uh a bill to allow cameras on school buses to catch people who pass um and that would need to be approved by the town which would be a warrant article and the school the superintendent was asked to look into what the costs would be and how that
might affect um in that we don't actually have the school buses we would be paying you know they this bus company that we contract with might ask us to contribute something I mean it's we don't know anything at this point but it's just to put it on the you know on
our radar is a possible expense that they might be making some money to add those cameras for the safety obious for students John uh Eastern Gateway exploratory advisory committee is going to have a uh public survey coming out
pretty soon about development people would like to see down Eastern Gateway so be on the lookout for that uh I see we have one more select board member so um I think we have the vice chair on the phone I don't think we have the chair so Karen do you want to
call Select board order I'd love to call the select board to order we have Mark in the room and then Chris is on Zoom just letting me know and Ken Haro great thank you all right sorry for the interruption
there but um notes all right so yes next next uh well strictly speaking previously on the agenda but catching back up to uh uh next on on what we're actually going to do is an opportunity for public comment
um if anyone would like to speak to the finance committee about anything we're talking about tonight no and lots of good I mean there have been to to the credit of all projects being discussed there have been a bunch of different forums and there will be more um so but um all well in
that case um let's keep moving it along uh next on the agenda is uh presentation and discussion on the kilum school project uh Carla are you starting off sounds good Joe I'm sorry to interrupt oh yes um it looks like Laura Stella raised her hand for public comment oh
I'm so sorry I didn't I looked around the room and I didn't look at Zoom um uh yes uh please Laur go ahead uh you appear to be unmuted but we can't hear you I see is muted oh there she you got me
now yes we can oh excellent I had a general question because I did look at the packet before the meeting started and I don't know when it's appropriate for this question so you might put me on hold um I noticed in the kilum
discussion they talked about the debt reduction of the library and all those other projects but also in the senior center discussion that same debt reduction as in terms of how much it
would lower the taxpayers annual cost is we can't be using both those numbers for both those projects correct um maybe I should
let want me to answer uh yes I think that's I mean there's only one savings you know you're going to get the savings once you're not going to get it of both projects but they both want to remind to that the savings that you're receiving from debt exclusions being paid
off but you're not duplicating those savings no no I think they're just showing it on the slide just to remind you that these Deb exclusions have fallen off and have have provided some savings that will help buffer some of the increases you're going to see so the
average come person needs to understand if both of these pass there's only one savings that applies yes that is true the the savings are independent of uh if it's not on our agenda I'm going to try let sound staff comments on
it instead um I so all right thank you um and apologies again for missing that on Zoom uh anyone else I missed no all right now please Jackie are you calling up the
presentation I can if you would like please you got it thank you best good evening everyone um thank you for having me tonight and thanks for hosting the um the kilum school building project um we're happy to give you um an
update I I will wait for Jackie to um to call it up but I I will start by saying that um I won't go into dep in depth because I know this group is a highle group who knows a lot about the project so I'm going to focus more on the
numbers which is I what I think you want to hear more of next one please and as you know um the msba has um eight different modules right now we
are in module number four the schematic design um we've as of February 10th 2025 we submitted the schematic design to the msba so we will wait about two months for them to review the project and come
back to us we are anticipating that we are on their agenda for um the April 30th msba board meeting at that point they will give us the okay and and show
us that they will put forth the money for this project and then we move into module 5 which is funding the project where we have 180 days from that point to let the msba to show put the money forward and show the msba that um that
we have the funding for the project as well next slide please course um so I've used the overall project schedule here just to separate out the two different funding portions
of this project in that intermittent um orange dotted line that Circle there that is the $2.2 million that was appropriated by town meeting on November 17 2022 it brought us through um the
feasibility study the schematic design and it brings us right up to the vote um which will be May 13th of 2025 after that if the project and um continues we will have that debt
exclusion which will fund the rest of the project next slide please quick review of um the building is three stories we have included you can see highlighted in green is the um
rise preschool the Consolidated rise preschool Under One Roof we were thrilled to hear from the msba that they were would be participating in the 12 classrooms there um in the um blue bluish purple
color um you could see the other classrooms for so for the K through five classrooms on the second floor is the kindergarten first and second and then the big kids are on the third floor the third fourth and fifth graders are on the third floor the gymnasium is on the
second floor and the cafeteria uh cafetorium um is on our first floor next slide Jack this is a and I'm going to show you a series of pictures that um renderings
from the from LBA from our designer that haven't this one has been but the other ones have the committee hasn't even seen them so I had to put them in um this is the proposed site plan you can see there there's a gray intermittent line and it
shows the outline of the existing School the new school is more towards the havil street side of the site it's a really tight site you can see um there's a lot of different areas for um different
levels of playgrounds um we have a field there and one of the the biggest features I think the best features of this site is the increase in amount of parking spaces for staff and for visitors the thing I like the most about
it is that um during drop off and pickup a lot of the parents will be able to drive right on site so we will take a lot of the congestion off of the roads we have done an extensive review of all
of the traffic and existing conditions now with um with traffic in the area and um how things will be reconfigured they they will have a really nice setup for um for pickup and drop off next slide
please so we're at um schematic design which is only 30% complete so um this is a rendering of what one of our um classroom neighborhoods could look like so and we visited multiple different
schools and this was a very similar look to a lot of these different schools um and how we um how our educational plan works in reading and is to have these classroom neighborhoods so we've actually made our classrooms a little
smaller but spilled some of that space out into the hallways so these little nooks and areas can be used for additional and different types of learning for our students so this is something that we are really really excited about as well and the teachers
um and staff had a lot of imp into this design too next slide please this I don't know why I just always like the cafeteras um the this is the community cafetorium and this is a real good depiction of um a lot of the
different ones that we have seen it is a combination cafeteria and Auditorium um I every one we've gone into have had those big huge Windows um with a lot of light coming in which I love um these are the this is not a fancy place right
it is a durable place it is um you know the materials that are put in they're real durable materials and it just but it's a pleasant pleasant type of environment so I love that picture next one
Jack so the next few slides are just different views these are aerial views of um a neighborhood views so this one is from the west side and you can see the the um how the the traffic pattern is there's a um an entry and that exit
and then the bus comes in from the um from the havil side street so the buses have a separate entrance but they leave through the same exit as um as the parents during drop off and then the next slide shows um the east side so
this is um this here is the back of the building so this is from the havil side of the building and and what you would see there next slide please um this is the view from Charles
Street this is the front of the building um it will it will you have the field here to the right is where the um the parking lot is as well and this is this is a potential
look of what the school would look like the next stage for the design ERS is to get into all of the materials outside and the look and the windows and things like that but I think um our designers kind of walk around with us to all these
buildings that we kind of um squeak in their ears and said I like this I don't like that so goad J just U making sure that I understand um the angle looking from uh is there the the playgrounds proposed are between the they're not
shown here but they would be between the ball field and the the foreground and the school in the background yes y then I do then I do understand thanks yep and this is from the CH from Char Street next slide please oh um sorry uh Ed Ross has his
hand raised Ed you like to ask a question uh sure actually car this goes back a little bit um but um and you may want to tackle this or you may plan to tackle this at some point later but I I was wondering if you plan to share we
are doing um against the initial 2.2 million that was um appropriated by town meeting I think that'd be something interesting to share and um it's a good shout out to the um to the work that the um OPM and um and designers are
doing say that again Ed how much is left uh so I was wondering if you plan to share how we're doing against the the initial 2.2 million um as far as an expenditure perspective um I don't know if you was planning on doing that later or um or at some point
I just think that would be something good to share to the committee since it's a an appropriation and and it's Finance related um we are at the point right now where we are um on schedule and under budget we are under budget
about $650,000 from our 2.2 million that opportunity of um going into the project or coming out of you know coming to the end of this phase gives us an opportunity to um to push
along our design efforts um not many districts have that opportunity because they um use all the money that they have so um we have had a lot of internal conversations about it and we are um
we've had meetings with our designers and with our OPM and we will just as of today we're having a meeting on Monday for the committee to talk about that to see if we would like our designer so certainly during this phase
of the project it's kind of like a quiet time and um and people are focused on the vote right we want the vote to to be successful and to happen um the designer kind of goes on hold so to speak right and they hold their people and and
they're used to this um we feel like we have an opportunity to push our um the the process of our design to a different level and gain back time and I'll explain how that time kind of factors
into real dollars um like three just for escalation costs 333 $333,000 a month so um does that answer your question Ed perfect that's exactly where I wanted
you to go Carla that's um and again it's it's a a a huge um you know a benefit and and something that you know folks should be aware of and probably the only only folks that really have heard about it today are the ones that are on the committee um but it's it's it's um a
true Testament to um to you and um Town manager um and uh uh superintendent as far as you know the selection process of the OPM um and and the designer and the work that we've done with them so thanks thanks for sharing that and that 2.2
million is part of the overall project costs um and we have gotten reimbursement from the msba that money is sitting in our Treasury and that will stay in our treasury this this um additional design that we're talking about is not part of that money we have
back in our treasury if that makes any sense that's been returned back great um and then this is the um back of the school from the Hail Street side I I will just say that that fence will not look like that it will be a more robust fence with um with more um
Landscaping there for for buffering because those are play areas too and that is set back quite a quite a way too next slide please and this is the main entry view sort of because it doesn't it
doesn't show the the drive up next slide Jackie all right now we get into the fun stuff so um just as a quick rundown of the building this building has three floors it's all electric um solar on the
roof um I know there's been some discussions on both projects about a potential um shelter in place or I'm going to call it Loosely call it emergency shelter um not officially an emergency shelter because that comes along with um a lot of state
requirements and that would create a a very a much more expensive um output for us so we're we're talking about a situation like what happened in um in LOL and in Andover a few years ago where
there was a explosion um a gas explosion in residential areas and people couldn't go home right because they they couldn't go home so this um I'm going to call it a in place even though I don't have a term that I think adequately describes
it we need a place to put people right we have CS in this down that are set we have them for emergency types of situations so right now the police chief and the fire chief have asked both projects to include this information and
if both projects go forward I I I have heard and don't quote me I have heard Chief burn say that the Centerra of living was a more appropriate place for it because the kids are in school during the day and if it's not a townwide situation we still have children at The
Killing school so if that is the case I think I can't speak for the committee but I think that the committee may decide to pull that out right because we wouldn't need it in two different schools um if it was to be in killum a
few things it would um we have um a gas fire generator that will um we haven't determined yet whether it's going to be diesel or propane it would service um just the common areas in the building so
it would service the gymnasium the cafeteria and the hallways it would not service the classrooms so it would keep the temperatures and and where they needed to be and keep the lights on um so just as a a quick aside about that because I know it it has been discussed
recently um to our HVAC system these were our five options we as a committee chose um option number three which was half geothermal Wells so that's 44 geothermal
Wells and then there's a um dedicated outdoor air system um that will be on the roof but the reason why I'm bringing this up Jackie the next slide please is for financial reasons to show
you this option 3A um if you look at the second to last column the um inflation reduction act incentive values those are listed there those played into the committee's decision on
which option to choose the msba program is so it's such a good program the way they bring you through this process that you know was a unanimous decision by the time we got to this point but we at this point in time we have been told that um
the in that those incentives are still in place if for whatever reason if the federal government decides to pull those um we've kind of mitigated our potentially mitigated our losses there it was part of our decision is what I
want to we we did um bring that into our decision-making process um some things you can't you know you can just try and plan for them we just don't know what's going to happen next one please this brings us to
um the interesting piece of of the puzzle so um we have for both projects we and I don't mean to talk for the the recal project and um but we have coordinated
together so um we have May 13th as the election or the vote um this debt exclusion vote because time means money so we started to dig into our schedule as soon as we got on the mba's um agenda
for the 4:30 um msba board meeting we really kind of drill down into our schedule we met with the town clerk um twice the OPM really wanted to understand so we could
take her timelines and and plug it right into our schedule um she has a lot of um legal requirements and timelines that she needs to comply with so at that point we knew that recal was going to
town meeting on um for April 28th town meeting and we decided or we the schedule showed that we could hit that date so um Matt called us all together both groups got together and and
discussed it and said okay this is this is a good thing so I guess I'll be the one to talk about it um we had these meetings um in terms of um kilums perspective I will tell you
how this benefits the project and benefits the taxpayers um this the date of going to April town meeting fits in with our schedule nicely we um we will have given
the msba um two about two months time um to approve our schematic design on April 30th when they meet um we are hopeful that and have no doubt that we're going to get a thumbs up from them and they're going to come forth with their
funding the second night of town meeting is May 1st and we have we are calling or the select board is going to call a special town meeting within the town meeting because we want to open it and close it for um for both projects
at that point in time we have to start a 7-Day clock um it's almost like a buyer remorse you have a seven days after um town meeting to make sure that our vote was was good and everybody's happy with it so that brings us to our first
Tuesday which is May 13th um to to go to the the the voters so in terms of um potential savings for cost um just talking escalation here it's about
$450,000 so if you assume a 4% escalation per year with a construction value of about 100 million uh translates to 333 333 per month um for 6 weeks that's
$450,000 um another potential savings on on bid day um is we have a potential savings on bidday because the um the project schedules more desirable um we will be the the most
ideal time to put a a contract in the contractor's hands is in March so if we have a a year's time for design so if our design starts on May 14th and goes for a year um you know we're we're
handing this off to the contractor in May of 2026 that situation Ed was um asking about or wanted me to bring up about potentially Saving Time on the designer end um and having the designer um start
working through some of their process would potentially save us another month so we're slowly creeping towards that March date um why is that beneficial because the contractor can start earthw work um concrete without winter
conditions um and if we're lucky he can get the steel up and he can get the sheathing going so that's less less risk for the contractor hopefully translating to lower bid costs and um and then hopefully we will you know kind of
mitigate winter conditions there as well and then for number five um we currently have two Modell on the site and um those modular are going to be moved to a permanent location at the
high school so what we're going to do is take take those first graders out of those modular at the end of this year and um put rise two rise classrooms in there and move it to the high school right outside of Rise um that will be a
permanent location and we will be able to use those modulars after the construction's done and we move rise into kilum we'll be able to use those for a lot of our Innovation Pathways so um Joe Huggins has this completely set
up like down to the day so as soon as as soon as we um we as soon as we achieve a favorable vote he's able to um a week later award that contract so we could get those modulars moved and out of the
way for construction Emily um the cost to move the modulars where does that come from so um we part of our swings we have swing space contingencies in um built
into the price it has come from that $2.2 million the design portion of it we use Gap our inh home doctor is that what we call it house doctor um uh to um design that for us and then the the
price for moving them will come out of our our project costs Co thank you you're welcome next slide Jackie what are the risks um the risks is that um we have um practically eliminated a
35 day wait time that um Lo it's a Mass General law and it is um the town clerk needs to receive the exact wording
for an election to go on the ballot so we are submitting that to Lara early so we have cut that back so it it translates because of other things as well to 37 days so we've cut that back
um so if this doesn't pass town if neither project passes town meeting we are still having an election on May 13th and that vote is valid
vote um so potentially we could lose the 20 to $30,000 for that vote question about that would be possible to call a special town meeting after the May 13th vote if if suppose I
mean in in the circumstances where the town meeting votes in the negative and the May 13th voters vote in the positive could we call a special town meeting at that point to to say hey town meeting and we know you said no but the voters just said yes you want to you want to
authorize this borrowing now I I I thinking that probably would be a prudent thing to do um and obviously be getting town counsiling on it yeah right so what happens if they don't approve the borrowing if who doesn't the town meeting town meeting it goes if we're
having an election an election has been called so can't cancel it hasn't been called yet meting votes s does seard voted to call an election but it's going to be called
before yes election is being called I'm not sure if town meeting votes no and then we have that we still go to the the voters and they say yes then what happens do we get the money like do we have the money for the project or have to go back tell me
authorizes the so the vote the vote by the vote stand means the vote happens not that the results of the vote think that and and who am I but I I think that um that wouldn't be a a good faith effort in the minds of the msba right if
town meeting said one thing and the voter said another the msba is going to say you guys got to get your act together so um I I wouldn't view that as the the project is moving forward okay so by by my opinion by the vocal standing the vote happens not that the
vote I don't think but you'd have to go back to town meeting now I think if you got if you got a popular vote of the residents of yes and a no from town meeting I think that tells Tom meeting the residents wanted I would think that'd be an easier vote to turn strictly speaking if Tom
meeting voted no that process that Carl alluded to by which the voters can petition and overturn to meeting via referendum we could vote twice Laura gem would never forgive the town but uh strictly speaking I believe that that if the voters want this the voters will get it even they have to overrule town
meeting to do it via petition the key excuse me for a second the key to this whole process too is once town on April on um April 30th we have 180 days M to um put up the money
SEC sing y so so that's going to be I I'll talk what is what if you get the full no path regardless of what town meeting says voters say no once voters say no twice and I hope it does doesn't come to that without advocating I just
think that's not you'd be giving up the chance for reimbursement like what is the plan so um that's above my pay grade but um and that's part of my last slide we as a town have to decide what to do with that school so um in order to bring
that school up to code keep the existing one-story building in all its Glory bring it up to code that's $62 million so we'll have $62 million of an existing school just brought up to code or you can have you know 8 $87 million
and have a brand new school so doing nothing is not a a path forward it is a path forward it may not be the optimal path forward in terms of taxes cheaper right and can I just ask another another question that um maybe especially with the superintendent being
here I see raised in the community contentions that um this school doesn't have to be this big because District enrollment is going down blah blah blah and I've kind of while I was I was double-checking numbers here and actually killum is pretty stable other
than you know before 201 15ish when everything was higher and the killum is stable rise is going up the district you know is down from 10 years ago but kind of stable so apart from enrollment there still seems to be some
people saying well the school doesn't need to be this big it doesn't all need to be there and I know you've given good reasons but enrollment was can maybe the superintendent or um somebody just speak to what you're projecting because I
think there's a contingent that keeps thinking no enrollment is going down we don't need this we can just redistrict and like look there's still a dispute I hear about the rationale and I don't agree with that but i' just like to hear it from you that no it is not dropping
or maybe we can't use classrooms the way we I try to explain to people we use classrooms differently but maybe just to hear from you you want me to come up or you or Carla or whoever can I give a couple of things first um so the um the study the
the enrollment study done by G app right um that helped us get into the um the feasibility phase or the the at the SOI the statement of intent phase um that Gap study showed that our average school
our average Elementary School was 30 to 50% too small right and we know that kilum is too small when you're doing work in closets and your closets are in the hallway your school's too small kilum is about 50% bigger than the
existing kilum and so it doesn't mean it's a it's an overly huge school it means that the existing school is half the size that it should be per the msba guid in terms of cost for adding the um we we looked at buildings of just four
classrooms of Rise existing well two classrooms existing plus two for expansion as the small our small building and then we had a larger building we had 12 classrooms right um that difference in cost there including
the reimbursement from msba our cost as a town 8.8 million to 12 million that is the range so bring bringing rise in for 8.8 million to 12 million some people still may say that's too much for what it does for the rest of the our school
district and for our high school which is our Flagship which you know promulgates what our you know what our tax base is and how wonderful our town is that that's the C that's the opportunity for us so so just so I'm understanding what you started to say
though because there msba standards we would not be allowed to build an undersized School because msba to for our proposal we have to meet what they view as sufficient class size standards so we couldn't propose something that was too small no we're we're working in the M we have to follow so that that's
kind of the key thing because then you the people will say oh you know when in the 70s kilum had 500 kids it's like I can tell you that kilum is not over and above you you asked the design of usopm one word to describe writing residents he's going to say Frugal they're both
going to say Frugal but I think it's important I think be important as you explain this maybe in the April second hearing to say you know we can't propose this smaller and even be in the mspq because they won't they want things to meet their standards okay yeah just a
couple things to build off that too so uh we had a recent demographic study done in the community as well from Jerome McKibben and outside demographer so our current enrollment for K5 is uh 1,776 students the projection goes up
actually uh the next two years are supposed to be relatively level the 1775 1774 and then in 26 27 they jump to 1847 oh W and then continue up to 1866 1883 1901 1919 and 1932 so the projections
again you can look at the mckb demographic study sort of how they're projecting out particularly on years where we don't have like birth data so we feel a little bit better about the you know 26 27 27 28 data because it's actual based on actual bir births instead of projected births uh but that for us you look out to where it went out
to 2032 2021 or 2031 2032 we're looking at over 150 student increase and I think for Carla you know kind of expressing too that our schools are already under sized is one piece right so there's not really many much space to absorb this
second we also see a continued increase in the amount of students with complex special needs some of our English Learners some are Le some our students who need additional supports and US need to find spaces in the buildings as well like the the the needs of our students
are very different than they were 10 20 30 years ago and we have to be able to have space to be able to meet those students needs I'll go even further is the district has asked us as a as the school committee the commit to be responsible of invest to save models for
example like building out our industri lead program if we build out a strong lead program we think that we can better service students in District than sort of out of District which is important for us moving forward from a you know to be able to maintain sort of the services that we provide students so even those
type of opportunities to build those programs that we need space so I I think that you know this this opens up space in several of our other schools and we think would allow us to absorb what is going to be uh projected enrollment increase in the years to come where we
don't have to do something else in four five six years now I will hit on the rise piece as well so we know that currently rise is 10 classrooms we are projecting again given some of our new the new laws some of the new child fine laws some of our early interventions
that we are going to pick up more students in the next couple of years who're going to be eligible for Rise uh Services we know we need to have space and we anticipate that having additional classrooms will be necessary that brings us up to that sort of 12 classroom that doesn't even address the wait list and
US wanting to sort of meet the of other families given that this is something that would be re you know those classrooms are eligible for reimbursement from msba we think that that's a uh you know obviously we're really encouraged when we got that information because we feel this is a chance to meet what is a growing space
need for our rise students and then also meet what we know is a growing programmatic need at the high school level too so um I think at this point if we given the you know kind of where our community needs to go with enrollment where our commun is going with programming that it is uh Forward
Thinking for us to try to you know maximize as much space as we possibly can and I know Mike Carol's on the call and I don't know if we want to and he has as a matter of fact he has a hands on so soon as you were done GL clearing up the myth that seems to be circulating I want to te him up on a couple of things but Mike I I think can you
confirm sort of what what my impression is is that we have haven't really built much extra space in this building right I I think that we have tried to go by as you know as as small of a building as we could give the community and M also says that he want to address sort of what happens if town meeting uh votes no but
then the voters vote Yes so yes absolutely Tom thank you so specific to the size of the building um I will just let you know that we we are working to build a building that is educationally appropriate and actually allowing the
educational program to define the spaces needed uh we we take that along with the msba standards and I will let you know that the msba standards um they're constantly reviewing these constantly evaluating them and making slight adjustments as they need to but they're
the standards that are used throughout the state and I will just let you know that while they are sufficient to do uh to do teaching and to do all the things that the Educators need they are not robust they are not um excessive if you will in fact you'll often often find uh
if we if we talk to facilities and things like that they they really would wish they had more storage spaces more things like that you know so I guess what I'm saying from that perspective is we're building what we need we're building to match the educational program and the msba standards really
are again sufficient to do what we need but certainly not not overboard not robust they are not not excessive is is the the correct work for that um and then specific to the the previous question on the on the town vote if the
town meeting does did not approve it the vote moves forward if the vote approves it I would say that the first thing that we would recommend is to get a special town meeting as quickly as possible to reconvene I think very similar to what Carla was saying and um we we can
support that we do have the 120-day um time uh window of opportunity to do that there is always a possibility to petition the msba for an extension things of that nature they they always want to work with us they always want to make sure that they're giving us the
best opportunity to succeed but it's not the best uh the plan shouldn't be that we're going to be asking for for extensions and things like that that's the backup plan thanks Mike yes Jo color on you have point about the
62 million just to bring it up to code and I'm not I I don't want to go there but just in for transparency like what what is that and what would be the timeline like to to bring like what are the things that would be in that number like so so um if you start touching a
building um constructionwise right and um you're not up to code you have to bring that whole building up to code right so you would start with our um the the foundation issues we have our fire suppression system which is inadequate
um it it's it's just not energy efficient the building's not energy efficient it has um groundwater leakage coming in um as a minimum those things would have to happen I mean that the building has been really wellmaintained but it's just at
its useful end of its useful life um and what's the lead pipes ohot the bonus yeah and the lack of ADA yeah yeah that's right thank you Carl I just what that wouldn't address we've gone through
some of the educational concerns that we have around the current space the need for spaces that we Joe and his team have done an amazing job converting some spaces that were previously used for you closets or storage that are now used for different purposes and I think that that would not address some of those concerns
from an educational perspective be pure compliance Carl if I could just expand just just like you just said and Tom just said that $60 million get you a code compliant building but it doesn't get you any really improvements as far as educ ucational spaces it really it
doesn't address all the the root issues in that building other than the gr compliance thanks Mike um so okay I think we're good yeah thank you um if we move on to the project cost I I do want to just quickly
say that um msba has a base rate incentive program and um they calculate what your your percentage is ours is a little over um 51% um that is 51% of eligible costs not
the whole kitten Kaboodle right so um and they assign points you're allowed to get 18 and a half coins um and part of this is based on how wealthy the town is um how well you maintain your facilities I will tell you that um and I'm going to
do a shout out to um to facilities because of the points we got from facilities and how well we maintain our buildings that translates to $1.4 million reimbursement from the msba just because we have a good facilities
Department um and then there's other things and in ter in terms of Energy Efficiency well I mean those are huge numbers and I always think that people want to hear stuff like this too um and Joe's paying me under the table
so um in terms of Energy Efficiency there's four points available and we're getting all four points points for that just to kind of get by that this is pretty self-explanatory in terms of um project costs you know for almost
42.6 um million dollar Grant from msba I will also just shout out because I think we forget these things sometimes at the um mba's October 24th 2023 board meeting they raised their per square foot cost
that they would pay from from $393 per square foot um to $550 so that was huge for us um also in terms of site costs they raised that to $55 so it comes out to
$65 um of square foot costs which is was a huge gain for us it's one of the things that kind of sunk um stonem high school because they I they may have gotten a benefit from that um and then I
think everybody's had time to look at um we did take on and and and show both projects and that the um what's coming off the tax rols and we did this in terms of um how much savings per how much it would cost per
$100,000 um of assessed home value next slide please and then the next example is just the the average home example the average home in Reading is $890,000
um everybody can read it I don't have to you know over $734 um the project would add that to um the average home values tax bill for the year if we took off all of that debt
coming off it would net out to about $347 for as a tax increase I if I could this is I think what the the uh the speaker comment there's a similar slide for this for the ret building which says
there's a a decrease in our taxes if you if we fund that one because they're also subtracting off that one does at least have a little quit note at the bottom that says excluding other projects whereas this slide does not say oh by the way that that increas is only if we
don't do anything else just add yeah that's where we see the double subtraction because doing our job trying to promote our own project right so the project but the savings only comes once okay we can we can we can do the math as a you know service for our
fellow residents and add the two numbers and subtract the other yeah so we need it one more slide at the end it says if we do both yeah then subtract off once for what's coming on Mark and I going to arm russle after who gets to take the
credit yeah and just the other thing just for consistency like Apple apples I think the school is at 20 years right thank you yes an assumed rate you know just to make it so compar so next slide
Jackie I I put this in um with numbers that aren't um current but just to bring us back to the question which was kind of already answered what happens if the vote doesn't pass on May 13th we have 180 days from um April
30th to um good faith show funding to the msba um we if it we could petition the msba and ask them if we can go back to the voters with the same exact design if it doesn't if it fails for the second time I put this up here just to show
that option A which was the code upgrade of um 61 milon um and msba makes you go through this process of code upgrade and then um a renovation addition and and and then new
buildings and I think that's next slide Jackie well maybe not this is just um a little bit of um project Milestones design development will take about a year possibly we can cut that back a little bit constructions 2 years and
then um Demolition and site work is another year I am do someone else have their hand up uh you're the first one I forget if you address this and maybe it's unpredictable this is kind of a question for anyone who's building it
if tariffs or those kinds of things hold do we have an estimate of how many how much building materials are non-domestic like that could come from Canada or Mexico that would go into this project and this question would also
apply to recal do we know if if like whether it's steel or Lumber so my flip answer will be that we have to stop producing everything in the United States and we have one year to do that I I I don't I that's above my pay
grade look he's already up I just but they may know how much what percent of the materials are domestic we have contingencies and stuff but car I would say that we don't necessarily have a a defined um specific
quantity of materials that are domestic a farm we we we have an open bid policy so it is is a competitively bid project uh that being said we do try to account for contingencies for both escalation and design so as we're we're going through and finishing the design we have
contingencies built in for that we have contingencies built in for escalation um I will say that uh Co has been challenging with that the contingencies tend to be a little bit higher more recently and I I think that we uh I I would hope that we have it covered I can't guarantee it because I don't know
where the Tariff will be a year from now but I would say with where we're at right now and what we're seeing right now I I feel pretty comfortable that we can manage to within the budget um with what we have thank you uh Ed has a hand
up uh thanks ch um uh Carl maybe something else for you or or for Mike or or Tom to be able to speak to um but um I I also you know to to um some of the questions that were asked about you know
the kind of the scope of uh the school and and requirements um I I do think it's um it's worth highlighting I know you did it on one slide that you know it's not like uh the committee um uh chose you know the topof the line for
every you know um every aspect of the um of the project you know speaking specifically about HVAC um and and and that was you know kind of a real collaboration from the building committees um and the town staff facilities Etc but then also from
a you know from a solar uh perspective you know it's not like we we took every um you know kind of top-of-the line um uh you know uh Choice um and that's what's you know kind of folded in the project so I just think that you know that's something else we want to make
sure that that folks know is that it's you know um we have adhere to that frugality that you know I think you mentioned at the [Music] outset other
questions from the committee Joe gu like operating costs like we're obviously picking up square footage but is there any estimates like like is that like another janitor or I don't know I have no idea how that works
but we we will this building has new type of Technology um that we will need that type of expertise on um so and and i' I've gone to seminars at other schools and they they've talked about
that and how to do that do you do that inhouse or do you um do you bring in that expertise so um we have been talking about that and kind of how to mitigate that we have a a very um small
um facilities group um for for the amount of buildings that we have in our town and um so we will need to bring that expertise on on board as well do you have any sense like how how big that could be like is it like another 50
00,000 a year or is it it it so I will tell you that um for Mass Save if we were not under rmld and and all that for Mass Save they will actually give you if you petition them
for it um I was talking to a district I think it was Belmont that had petitioned for the third year in a row of $150,000 Grant through massave um we don't have that opportunity where they will have an you know they will pay for an energy person
and you can you can ask that you can ask for that amount for up to three years um we do not have that so we will have to figure out how to be able to the systems we we've selected too right it's it's a lot of like a computer system too that
needs to be monitored so you can um educate somebody to do that you can bring in those expertise so we we will need that whether it will be a full-time person or not I I have no idea um but that's something we definitely have been talking about as well and like
at this stage are we looking at like I call it like warranties or protection not just for the roof but like you know for some of the other equipment and things that we're putting in yes but is it is there cost is that cost like embedded like these numbers or we
will um we have been talking about it and other districts have hired a um a specialized consultant who's a tax and con they're Ira experts to help you there's you don't just you know do your taxes and then you know check off all
the IRA things you have to like apply for these grants at different times during our process so if the pro if the if the the vote we get a positive vote that is something we'll be bringing on board right away because that person can help us um in you know we may modify our
design a little bit to to get those incentives moving forward so there are specialized people who specific people who actually do that type of work but but do we plan to pick up like any like maintenance cost or the um Pat Tomkin is chair of the permanent building
committee um the the original question about warranties roof warranties equipment warranties all the equipment everything the entire building will come with like a one-year labor and material warranty on everything and then all the manufacturers warranties will you know
will matriculate to the town whether it's a 20e material warranty on carpet U 20-year warranty on the roof you know whatever that is that that's all part of the you know big into of that price there's no special um so we don't we
don't have to buy up I'm just thinking of like the residential or C we're not buying up additional contract that we don't think we need to no okay okay thanks the only I'll add on that too is just in terms of Staffing potential shifts we would uh need two additional
uh Preschool teachers but that would be generally covered through our uh tuition payments for the uh Rise program so that wouldn't be as much of but we'd have some more control over that we would need to hire one additional teacher for a science technology engineering teacher there's a science technology engineering
room as you look at the floor plans we would need to have a designated staff member for that room and that's part of our commitment and the documents that we've submitted msba uh which is probably a good thing anyways in sort of where we are Education Without we really see this just one staff member in terms of school operating budget I know Joe
maybe me yeah more custodial definitely for killum we're going to be needing more custodial staff and then on the maintenance as far as the core facilities budget we are going to be adding we're very custy right now with the amount of people we have covering a over a million square feet so I would
imagine we would be adding more technicians and to what car Carla was speaking about um I think what she's talking about is a sustainability manager um which sometimes do hire out for and they're funded through grants and they go after different opportunities but as far as operating
the building on a day-to-day basis with the energy management system the building operating system whatever you want to call it we have the know how to do that we don't need to bring anybody in for that but we will be increasing our of course our utility costs are going to go up because it's full electric our maintenance contracts we're
going to have to expand on those and so we are going to be especially with B projects coming on so there there is going to be a shift going forward okay F to to too early to understand like what those and we're looking at numbers right now I mean for a building that size
where we kind of know what the right size as far as custodial and maintenance Staffing goes okay yeah thank you thank you I think one of like the early public forums there was talking about improving sidewalks around the school if we're getting some of the traffic away from
off of Charles Street is that included in any of the plans here or is that for further down the road not not you're not asking for that happened before the the project during is that part of the project oh the so they um that's a great
question the the there is a plan set for how the um the traffic flow is going to go and where parking is going to be um I and Mike maybe you can answer this I I would guess and say that the um the sidewalks are right AB budding the
school are part of the project but anything additional to that wouldn't be I think that's the way we are currently planning at car immediately adjacent is within the project there there's other considerations the traffic engineer has
has provided as as options that uh the town may consider to do outside project okay that's not so that's a separate funding Right Down the Line somewhere okay and then with the additional parking at the school just looking at
the the maps like where's all the snow going we have to plow this we're going to bring big blow dryers in geothermal snow melters flamethrowers you know what I am going
to tell you the one thing I do remember they were talking about like how wide that area is like the walk the driveway in used to it's like I'm not going to say 40 it's it's very wide so this could be deceiving
um car as far as the snow that's actually part of the requirement for the designer to have that as consideration so they will have areas defined for where the Str will go here they're not going to build a sledding hill C the
rec do we um do we have other yes please since we have p on in here so will the town need to upgrade any of the infrastructure around the the school like the water lines I don't know any of the that will tie in or no not
really um I'm I really haven't been part of the conversations has that been discussed um as far as you know upgrading water lines and so forth and hear that mik it's more m question I
mean yeah my understanding right now I don't think there's been any discussion that we need to do any uh upgrades in the road of utilities we've looked at the existing utilities we're basing our our work off of those utilities I don't believe we've done a hyd flow test yet
but what that would potentially do is is talk about a a fire fum in the building or not not necessarily upgrading something outside the property lines sorry one more I'll let you go on on the um maybe this should be a question for Sharon but is the 20-year assumption is
that what you're recommending for this project or I know that's what you use as an example but Sharon Sharon was looking at him and she said she decides with that town accountant right because you show different like or
she she did okay they show different years because you they want to see the impact so the the the higher the years you get the more interest you pay the lower the years less interest you pay oh yeah also the burden on the taxes and
also on the on the budget that will pay for it is less so it's a balancing a yeah it's and we have a like a upward uh soaping yield curve now going out long is going to hurt you too so it's better to do the 20 year it's a balance yeah if if you can
afford it but they will add more taxes pay less will pay less than long term the other thing is that all of our buildings will be 20 years older 20 years so uh Sharon as soon as you left uh Joe had a question about the borrowing term
um the 20year term versus other Poss we that is that the question is that right now is that the recommendation for this project it is and it's based on just looking at how much more interest goes if you go from 20 to 25 years it's $20
million more interest and it saves that average home maybe $61 a year if it was me I'd rather stretch and pay that extra you want to make it go away five years and then when you look at the 30 which is I why I thought we would be almost
doubles the cost of the project because 87 $83 million or 83.7 million of interest and the difference is only $23 from for the average taxpayer from from 25 years so it's like I feel like the
numbers seem to point that 20 is the right choice y um at least to me I don't think the savings is signant I'm good with that I was just trying to I saw the different schedules and was trying to figure out if we when you see a project like this you default oh it's got to be
30 I can't imagine we could afford anything else and then when you see the actual numbers break down you see how how the interest accumulat you said this doesn't make sense I don't want to spend excessively on interest if we can afford to stretch just a little bit more and bring it down this a question I've heard in the
when people were in conversations about the I've heard someone say um oh uh finance committee will be deciding on that I was like oh really um uh I think it's a Treasurer fun okay yes not but obviously if I'm building the budget and the treasure we have to be in line with
each other but I think we're always interested to hear what fincom has to say what residents have to say if some if a if residents were saying we can't afford that number that you're putting out there then that feedback is necessary before we make any kind of definitive borrowing at that at that
space it feels like you know if you're talking just things like $20 $60 that's very different than $200 $300 which I think is enough to swing people more than I I I and it's maybe from my position maybe there are people
from 20 20 to $50 matters but I just feel like psychologically like something under $50 looks less impactful over a year and then one would think that in that time frame another project May develop that might need funding and so
the sooner you pay off this debt the the sooner you have that bandwith to take something else on G to ask are there are other projects that we can kind of foresee down the line within the next 20 years of this size not that I know
of are there we're going to do a a facilities master plan to kind of see the condition of all the buildings and recommendations of what needs to be done and that might highlight to us if what building if any in the future might need to be looked at okay no I I was going to say one one
other thing in the you know back on the subject of of tax burden and the you know 2050 sorts of numbers um I another we are talking like there are certainly residents for whom $50 would matter they don't own the mean valued house they presumably rent or own something less
expensive so the burden would be less so that's um um something also one thing I asked U uh I had an email exchange with Carla about means and medians because the um I understand the standard from Sharon is is to use the mean um but a few expensive houses make the mean
larger than the median so um it's accurate to say that you know half of taxpayer half of single family home owners would pay less than the average that we're describing here um buy a little I think it's 840,000 vers well anything less due to this project
there's still going to be home value right but I mean that the um yeah that in DLS they prefer us to use the aage okay that's that's what guides are that's fine but DLS can't change the fact that half of voter half of half of houses cost less than the median which
which would be good to know you for people to know that even though we're quoting an average that 50% are going to be below going to be more yes more than 50% are below the mean good we're not the average is not dragged down by a few very cheap houses I don't even know how that would work
the average is dragged up by a few expensive houss this is amazing how much the property values have gone up since I quoted it in 2022 I think it was average home was 670 and now it's 890 so is that why the cost per home is less because I
was looking at the numbers October 19th 2022 you gave to fincom and it was a project less than this but was more per home and is it because the tax base is bigger the interest rate at the time was like a 5% coupon so when I was doing
that that analysis I was assuming 120 million I was assuming the lowest possible MSP reimbursement at like 30% and it somehow miraculously came up very close um but um like it was high it
was higher because it was a higher interest rate oh okay higher interest rate so like if you look at and this isn't set in stone this is like we know we're very close to starting to borrow and this is what they're projecting for us at our Hilltop
Securities but back then 5% coupon rates were the going thing so at the time we were asking was part of it like think the interest rates were starting to go up and and that that we were starting to see more 5% coupon rates now keep in mind we get premiums for you know we get
a lower rate because we're a AAA Bond Community but they still need to package for resale and 5% was what they were doing at the time now they're cing us a four so so that to do with the size of the tax base being higher because home values are higher no I mean it's all
kind of breaking down by price per 100,000 and all that all that's the same it's that when they did that projection for me they were very conservative with a 5% now I do understand what you're saying Mar the um there are looking at there's there there are
more hundreds of thousand of home value in this town than there were two years ago as you're saying like see the numbers were like eight this is from two years ago it was 80 for $120 million of debt and it was that coupon rate it was 88 per th000 and now it's like 73 per
th000 so it just was I was like wow it's I was I don't know why in my head I thought the interest rates are worse now than they were in 2022 but maybe well by by leate beginning and end of 2022 for day and night is that's that's the year when it l22 yeah but the but the numbers
still stayed somewhere close to the range that we were quoted so that's at least it's quite yeah some happy coincidences here I know you put a lot of we we we demanded this that estimate from you you know I don't even know anything let me just guess and then and
then and unfortunately it's going to get harder for you to avoid us asking if that in the future because you turned out to be completely correct within like $1 million in terms of the uh Town share um which is uh I was trying to give worst case scenario and it came up very
close sigh but yes okay all right are there other um questions about this about kill all right thank you Carla very much for coming and presting thank you for everyone for committees um does the kill and
school building committee need to adjourn adjourn the school the Kellum School building committee Pat yes Nancy yes um John maybe but he's still
here I see Chris on Zoom I see John cot on Zoom I see John he's not coming back computer and Ed's still sitting there sorry Ed we're looking for people to vote to a Jour but then he's still going be here
for I might just leave both then you're you're stuck with I'll stay I'll stay but uh Carlo was trying to get a vote together to adjourn thanks Chris thanks Ed we're technically not ajour there's still five here oh okay
I'll okay I didn't know if I didn't know if some people were dropping off the call um if everyone's staying great um Carry On um or if Quorum was staying all right well okay so let's get back to the agenda so next is our president presentation discussion for the reading
Center for active living project great hello everyone I don't think I've for you so I'm brianka with Turner in towns and Erie owner project manager here to give an update on the recal project and I think the last update was back in
October so a lot has happened since then um and I'll try to be really brief here on this presentation so that we can have plenty of time for questions share this here and see if this works so I don't know how familiar you
are with the project um I'll touch on kind of a few highlights and then like I said happy to answer more questions in detail about any of the topics so this project um has been in development for quite a while let see how do I get to the next
slide now I think you there we go uh 10 years uh number of studies were conducted we had the recal committee that was active for I think believe three years um a lot of Engagement with the public on what was needed and how
they envisioned this project moving forward um what it's really about is addressing changes in the demographics uh there's a growing population of the 60 plus Community that's projected to reach 30% by 2030 so this project is
really about addressing those needs um and within that age span of the 60 plus you really have a lot of differences in what people need you know you have the younger younger age groups that are still very active you have older age groups that need more support
services So the plan is to address all those needs uh through these programmatic changes unfortunately uh the program doesn't really work in the existing building uh there are a number of problems I won't go through all of them here there are problems with the
facility itself and I think the biggest thing is just there's a lack of space so there are long waight lists for a lot of the programs that are offered and there's a shortage of programs um that are currently meeting the needs of the community or not meeting needs of
community I should say so all of that really expands into um having a lot more programs that are needed to support this uh growing segment of the population so as part of this project um a lot of work has been done on figuring
out how do we best move forward um overall there were six different sites that were considered the three most desirable sites were then uh intensely studied to figure out uh what's best for this project and of the three sites uh they
were evaluated by the recal committee also by the Council on Aging the architect did a review as your OPM we also did a review and all of those sites were reviewed by the permanent building committee and then together with the
select board um unanimous decisions were made that the Simon Way location was the best site so that's kind of what moved us in that direction and there's a lot of good reason for that um and I'll talk a little bit more of the site when we get into the design part but um going through this process
there was also a vision statement a mission statement that were created so Elder and Human Services together with veterans services and Recreation and also the counts on Aging really work together to Envision what this space is supposed to be and it it's really a place that's going to Foster the health
and wellness of the community by promoting social interaction um and creating a place that is not only for the 60 plus group but really is open to all ages so kind of inter uh generational meeting place and
conserve the needs of these various groups also so uh this came up as we went through this process this is kind of an interesting thing something that you might want to read up on later it was a study that was put out by the Surgeon General and it was an advisory
about the issues that address um social isolation within the community and it's interesting because it talks about how it not only affects individuals but it affects the community at large in fact lowering academic achievement having a worse performance at work and even
having significant economic impacts on not only the individuals but the community as a whole so that was kind of an interesting point of reference because it really applies to this project as we move throughout it um you can see on the graph there on the left they actually highlight the social
isolation as more damaging than a lot of the viic that we commonly know of like smoking and excessive drinking obesity things like that and the solution from this uh report was to design an environment that promotes a social connection and that's kind of what that recal project is
about so here we can see the site uh that was selected uh it's really being envisioned as a community resource area as a whole because there are a lot of programs on that in that location already that that the town has you have the Burbank Ice Arena you have existing
athletic fields just off the image on the top there you can see the center for active living in the lower leftand corner and then uh some pickle ball cords that are proposed which I think it was mentioned earlier um this evening
that's actually a separate project but that's slated to be in that area as well and then there's also a Wilderness walkway that's that's proposed um and we've been talking with conservation about those issues so overall you know there's a great resource for the
community it's on 15 acres of town-owned land so I'll quickly just take you through the design here's a view of the outside looking from the ice rink uh the main entry View and you can kind of get an idea here of these two parts of the building kind of on the
right side we have part that um is more open to a variety of community needs the more public space and then on the left side you have the area that's more focused on the 60 plus community and you'll see that more in the plans here's another exterior view that
uh shows an outdoor space um next to the senior Hub and then there's also a second outdoor space on the upper level and we've also looked at the potential of adding uh solar panels to this building to generate some electricity uh this is
also planned to be an all El electric building um the solar panels right now are not part of this project but we're looking to um maybe fund that with some grants if we can find some grants for that or also through cost savings for the project by using alternates
so here you have a view of the plans um on your right you have the first floor on your left you have the second floor you can see the big blue arrow on the right that's the main entry and so those lighter blue areas those are the more of the shared spaces so those are also for the 60 plus Community um definitely the
multi-purpose meeting room also the gymnasium both of those spaces are going to be used by those groups but they're also open to uh more uses by Recreation and the veteran services each of those Community departments have stated their need for that type of space and have a
number of programs that they plan to run in those uh the dark blue spaces are um more for the seniors if you will the 60 plus uh groups on the first floor you have Elder and Human Services offices
and then on the bottom right hand corner is kind of that senior Hub um and then the orange spaces on the second floor are the offices for recreation and Services here's some views on the interior the one on the left is right
when you come in you'll have reception to your right the multi-purpose room to I'm sorry reception on your left multi-purpose room on your right um the second floor is then the access to the um Recreation and veteran services and walking down the hallway you have that
program guide so now if you look at the right image you can see someone walking in they can see what the programs are and then head straight down the hallway to the senior Lounge so it really works as a senior center even though it's part of an overall Community
Center uh some views of the senior lounge and Senior Cafe and the game room which is uh near that senior lounge and then a view of the multi-purpose room that can be divided for different types of uses um and here's a view of the
gymnasium and one thing I I didn't mention when we were looking at the plans is that uh um having these spaces also allows the town to use the facility for things like boating um that's been discussed as a need um that's that
people foresee for the future and also like you heard uh earlier Um this can function as an emergency shelter since we do have enough space to put cots for people to sleep there are showers that are in the facility and we also have a
kitchen and with the generator we can have power if there's a power outage so um what are the costs I guess that's what we want to talk about here tonight so first I'll give you just a little bit of a framework kind of where things started and then tell you kind of
where we ended up and then what the impacts are to the taxpayers so during the feasibility study the initial costs ranged from 28 to 29 million that was based on a range of square footage because there were some different programmatic options and that was based on construction starting
in 2025 which obviously um we're not doing right now um and there was a $2.6 million contingency so I've kind of adjusted those numbers to reflect where we stand today so if we look at the current square footage of the building
actually not being able to start construction until 2026 and the $4.7 million uh contingency that we're currently carrying using those numbers with the feasibility study that would have actually made it closer to about $33
million so we also looked at well what's what can we expect to pay um what have other communities paid and it is a little hard to get an exact number because you can't do an exact Apples to Apples comparison each project is very
different um but we did find uh you know a range and I can talk about this more detail if desired of somewhere between 26 and 34 million that's kind of where this type of facility of this type of size would would be expected uh but looking at the
feasibility study numbers and the input we got from neighboring communities when they've done similar projects uh we did hear back from the community that the project really needs to be under $30 million so that's been a big thing that we've been working on as we go through
the schematic design how do we get this project to be uh the most cost effective possible so I'm happy to say that we were successful with doing that um we have an approved budget by the permanent building committee for 27.9
million and that that doesn't include still the four the full $4.7 million in contingency and it's based on uh a 2026 construction start date so how did we do that well um like I said throughout the schematic design
the permanent building committee um and the designer have worked together to really be very cost conscious anous questioning a lot of the materials that you know we would be using for the project what kind of return on investment these different systems will give us making sure that we're not
oversizing or even undersizing the the building because if you undersize it you just have higher costs that you need to pay later um so trying to be very efficient also the synergies of these groups um even though there's Elder and Human Services Recreation and Veterans
there's an overlap so you're getting a lot more usage out of the space which is a lot more efficient and then in addition to those types of decisions that are made also being very responsible in the financial planning that's something that we take very seriously um during the schematic design
we had multiple cost estimates that helps to really make sure that we have a clear understanding not only of the current market conditions but also on the scope uh to make sure that everything is included that needs to be included in the cost so they're not surprises later and we put together a
detailed uh project budget you know thinking really about all the things that we can expect on this project and making sure that we do buil in uh the right amount of contingencies for this type of project in this location in this type of environment and
then finally the use of alternates is also a tool that we can bake into the project that can help to manage so that we do not exceed the budget but also allows us to get work done very cost effectively if there is addition additional money um available and the
town wants to you know put additional things into the project so um as I said the project budget was set at 27.9 million and you can see up here the four different contingencies that we have that total
4.7 million they each have very specific purposes um and are necessary to protect uh the project from inflation uh from design issues from construction issues that happen on these types of projects
also I do want to point out that um some items that were considered optional are included in this project so the first is the Range Road Improvement um to the second entrance to the parking lot so that that provides a better flow that
was requested by the fire department um to have better access so that has been included in this also we do have a full building generator that's what Ena us to have this emergency shelter we've included triple pane windows which will help with the Energy
Efficiency and also um cut down on sound transmission in the building so if the pickle Paul courts are nearby you're not going to have that noise uh disruption and there is also a hold for a stone dust trail and that's being worked out with the Conservation
Commission on the details of that but what's not included as I mentioned before is the pickle ball courts that's a separate project so just to give you a general Sense on where we are today and how things look moving forward uh we would expect the project to be approved in May
and then finish up the design work by the end of the year and that would allow us to go out to bid U by the first of the year and start construction on the first quarter of 2026 and as I think you heard already this evening that's one of the tactics that
we've used to help manage costs um because that will allow us to get the most effective uh or the lowest bids essentially uh on the project by having it nicely timed that way and then once construction starts uh we would expect the building to open in
the fall of 2027 so we've had a lot of Outreach on this project uh we've had a number of public forums there's been a tremendous amount of Outreach um in newspapers there's a lot of information on the website if you haven't checked that out
yet uh please do uh we can't cover all of it tonight but you can reference a lot of the information there and of course A lot of people are asking well what's the impact going to be on the taxes so we worked with the town uh now that we had the budget to figure out
what possible terms could be and what kind of tax impacts so uh Sharon had pulled together a number of different uh tax impacts ranging from 15 to 30 years with the current interest rates and then also like you heard already
uh tonight that you know we do want to point out that there is Debt Service that's being retired and that of course will have an impact on the taxpayers so um the overall range was uh 183 to 265 for this project for the
average homeowner for a tax impact and then if you were to put that together with The Debt Service that was being retired that's where you would end up with a tax reduction and that's what we mentioned before so that doesn't include other town taxes or
other projects as mentioned before um but that's the simple math on those numbers so also I just wanted to point out that um you know we did have survey results back in 2022 that showed uh there was interest
in an all ages Community Center that's also what a lot of other neighboring communities have done from what we found uh those communities that didn't you know build something initially um kind of wish that they've had uh but a lot of communities in Massachusetts have been
building these types of centers and uh from those survey responses we had 59% of the survey responses that supported at the time back in 2022 um a tax increase of $100 to
$200 or more um and then 30% that supported at 200 to 300 plus uh tax increase so just kind of taking that data from those surveys I was kind of
curious well that was back in 2022 what would that look like in today's numbers so this is just really a point of reference um but after adjusting that for inflation the 59% support was $15 to $230 tax
increase and then the 30% you know that total 30 to 345 so we've heard that you know the town is leaning towards a 15-year term for this project I think we heard on kilum that would be a 20-year
term so using the data that Sharon provided um that shows a tax impact of $29.78 per 100,000 so for an average home which is 890,000
evaluation that would be 26 $5 per year um so again you know that without the other project that would still be a tax reduction so you ask for it and here's your
slide what do they look like together so using the numbers that kilum presented before with a 20-year term um and an average home impact of $734 per year and then with the recal project in the 15-year term in a 200
$65 per year tax impact um then taking out the retiring debts of 387 per year that would leave a tax impact of $612 per year for an
average home for both projects for 15 years before the over which is about $51 a month or $12 a week so also I want to point out that um when we set a budget for the
project uh we do that very carefully you know we first of all like I said we want to make sure we have accurate data accurate data in the design accurate data in the cost and then we carefully look at Mark conditions and we try to set the contingencies to the right amount that's going to protect the
project and protect the taxpayers but it doesn't end there um as an OPM on the project we continue to manage the cost all the way through the design and the construction so we typically end up delivering projects
below the budget so that you know I can't promise that but that has been our track record and that would be my Hope on this project as well so if we have a this project budget that's approved that we're going to continue to work to whittle down cost to find U more cost
effective ways to accomplish the goals for the community without sacrificing the program and then the other thing I wanted to point out is that these tax impacts would not be happening all at once so you have the duration of
construction both for recal which would be shorter than for the Kum project but spanning over three-year period so not all that money is needed up front it's going to be needed periodically over the you know that period of time so this wouldn't be hitting the taxpayers all at
once it would be you know somewhat gradual up to that maximum amount so here's basically where we stand uh we've completed the schematic design uh We've developed the budget we have the approval from the permanent building committee on the project uh last night
the select board Moe uh select board met and they voiced uh full support for this project so we're here now presenting to you guys on the finance committee and then I think you heard already these dates uh May 1st the special town meeting and then May 13th
the Town vote so that was pretty brief well done well done they were very nervous about the amount of a lot of slides I'll start by asking did you make that slide with combin costs just now as
we were that's not that's not in the packet so um uh I I did that earlier today that that's okay well then that was foresightful thank you because that is that is the I guess $612 question but yes um all right uh so yes questions from
the committee sure there questions but I'm always the first so please can I ask a question what percentage of the total square footage is the senior Hub because I'm look eyeballing and it looks like it's only about 25% and am I
wrong uh yeah I would say it's not definitely not 25% um I can go back to that slide that's probably the best thing to do yeah I don't I to show you the square footage the plan oh look Joel I'm talking Joel
dedicated senior Hub because it just feels like there should be more for our seniors here but that's so just me Joel can probably give us a a better understanding of the exact square footage but what I would say is
that the a multi-purpose room in the gym are definitely part of the spaces that are going to be used for seniors but not exclusively not exclusively like at 3:00 when all the middle schoolers show up the seniors right the seniors don't want
to be there so I'm just wondering how much middle space seniors I and I turned 60 a month ago so I'm a senior now so I'm really concerned so how much space am I going to have well I I'll let Joel talk about the square footage but yes you're right so you know those other
spaces that I highlighted are going to be more Shar shared spaces they're going to be for the seniors but at other times they're going to be used by other programs and so uh like the recreation department right now is currently renting space and other buildings to
accommodate those needs so when the seniors aren't using the space we can capitalize on using the space which also helps to save money but uh Joel maybe you can talk about some of the differences in square footages the I think the to say that
it's a senior U dedicated spaces is a little misleading there the during the day the seniors have access to all those spaces and they have priority use when at other times during the day so if if
in the evening the senior programs expand and they need to use a multi-purpose room the intent is that that's a they have priority over use of that multi-purpose room the multi-purpose room happens to be 2300 square ft the gym is a similar space
that's there for their use typically we have these centers for active living in in many communities and at three or 4 in the afternoon they do turn those gyms over to recreation use so that the gym is 6,800 square
fet when the gym is used for that that doesn't preclude seniors or anybody else from using the track track that's on the level above the gym so it's it's very hard to say exactly how much you have at any time but I think it's fair to say
that the senior center spaces if you take out the gym are 18 to 19,000 Square ft of space and then you add that gym during the day it gets you up to the 28,000 total square
ft that we have in the building and that's very comparable to other um communities of this size that that have that and it's very comparable to the Newton C and Newton has a much
larger population so I I think what Brian's drawing was trying to do is say these are spaces that are just for the seniors that are designed very specifically for seniors we don't anticipate a lot of sharing in those spaces these are the spaces that are
open at different hours when alls when it's allowed by the senior programming okay I just know because you're mentioning how the senior population is 60 and over a lot of people like myself 60 and over are still working and if you get out of work it's
going to be a it's not going to be a real dedicated Senior Center but I also know at the other end maybe seniors over 75 prefer to be out during the day and not driving at night so it's it's hard to meet like you said it's different needs I I just this isn't really a
construction question maybe is just a Ed question I just hope the se you know the point of building this is for the seniors that you'll be able to prioritize their usage and give them the space they need yeah I mean we have uh people here from the council and aging
from all the town departments and I don't know if they want to speak about this but I can just say you know having Saturn on the meetings that there have been a tremendous number of meetings on how they're going to work together and how the the senior needs are going to be prioritized throughout this process and I think everyone's kind of on the same
page with that thank you sure let me just um add a little color to this part of the conversation um we've hired a consultant to come in and work with us on our operational planning um so we're working with um
Elder and Human Services veterans and and Recreation and then that will also help us project our operational cost which may be a question that's coming up later we know we'll need you know more uh custodial support for a building that's roughly three times the size of the current Pleasant Street Center um but our our staff worked tremendously
well together and um it's we all understand and prioritize the needs of the 60 plus Community for this project for this building um and it's a longitudinal uh priority and Brian touched on it it's in your packet um our vision statement our mission statements
that guide how we do the operational plan and how we designate those spaces and how we use them so we are very well aware that with a with a building like this we'll be able to cater much better to the needs of our working um you know senior 60 plus population um of which by
the time this is done I'll also be almost in that population I'm really looking forward to that walking Track I'm telling you but um you know it it really is a way that we can you know really serve the community and and the population and demographic is tremendously uh changing and so we're
very cognizant of that and we're trying to uh learn from our neighbors who are doing this work folks who have finished these buildings folks that have just uh you know have been operating them for a while and then um being able to bring them into our understanding and how we go forward all right
good more questions Joe thanks um it might be back to the operational plan but sure will that include like so how much is baked in here like for furniture FF that's an architectural question my friends 500k 500k that's what they have in the
cost it's right on page page 48 of our package if you zoom in in the we can we can give you okay I see okay that um and Technology 300K yeah and and that's where I was kind of going
too like where like for for digital AV like other assumptions about like I'm just thinking of the audience right I'm so think of this as more for the senior population the new yeah the new um H uh audio VIs ual uh upgrades that have been done to the pleasantry Center will be
brought over to this project so we'll we'll capture new technology and bring it back into this building so that's it's brand new investment over there um yeah and look Joel's Joel's here to add on to that I think the Audi visual budget
includes hearing assist in the program rooms and in the multi-purpose room so it's it encompasses all the technology that goes into the building for presentations and uh audience and presenter presentations okay and the in the
furniture budget was a there's a detailed Furniture budget room by room using the quotes from this uh State list on approved Furniture vendors um for these kind of projects so they're accurate and that furniture oh sorry
yeah but but it's more designed for like I'm thinking older people I'm just oh yeah yeah okay same thing the bathrooms and all that would be absolutely widths of stairwells widths of hallways um yes we have our architectural team has done
and worked very closely with our Council on Aging members to ensure that this is um exceeds the minimums of ADA and then just um I've asked this like in other forms but um for Pleasant Center like the plans for that because
because my concern is like I'm very supportive of this but I'm worried that we have Pleasant Center still surviving as a town building to maintain operate Etc right so it's like you're in our heads j a lot about that I did a little
presentation for the select board a few weeks ago about what we're going to do with the Pleasant Center with the ideas may be um it could we could have a rental situation a lease situation or even sell it we're in the process of getting an appraisal right now when we're going on the tax assess value just
a ball pocket um and then you know it could bring in anywhere 80 $85 to $100,000 a year in leasing depending on who we relase it to um could be a nonprofit use could be a for-profit use so that I'll have more on that as we go forward to town meeting but it's
something we're definitely looking at and thinking about okay do we have any idea like I'm not advocating that we sell it but is is there any sense of what the market value for it would be um like I said we're gonna we're going to do an appraisal on it I think when we when we look at it from just from a tax
standpoint it's currently assessed for like $87,000 which seems you know low to me has hisorical has has historical restrictions too but exactly um so we are we are going to get a commercial appraisal done on it okay I
just think of include this at town meeting yeah oh yeah it's certainly on our list you're right on about that thank you thank you y is there going to be an elevator in this building where is it in the schematic I
can't figure it out uh when you come in the the entrance um just to your right just past the multi-purpose room right here right here oh I see it yeah okay um so on the cost I saw that
you budget zero for hasm is that a reason behind it on the yeah this is a new new structure so there's no abatement so they so has has there been a study on the soil there yes yeah we did have a study in the soil as well I
know that that was a concern initially um but uh before we finalized the site selection uh we had the data from the environment environmental engineer uh telling us that we don't have any hazardous soils that need to be removed
there's a line here for profit it says um so under under construction cost it says profit 498k that Sage off a base what what is
that so that's for the general contractor so that's cost of doing business I mean that's so that would be in so this project uh is planned to go out to to bid so design bid build rather than like construction manager at risk
um so so we will be awarding to the lowest qualified bidder on this project so that's an estimate of what we would expect um they would have built into their bids for profit so those numbers are put together when we do the cost estimating um because we want to get a
realistic idea of what the bids might come in at okay that's all I have John uh have we looked all it current parking utilization at the existing lot on that site uh for the ice
rink yeah uh yes we have and actually I think Joel could probably speak to the best of that um having done the parking calculations but uh we have had discussions with them and plan to use uh shared parking okay
CU sorry yeah can you can you talk about the uh numbers Joel and and the arrangements uh with Burbank Ice Arena we we hired a we retained a parking consultant to do an assessment as part of the feasibility study so that we were
sure that the sites would support the required parking um with the staff including the veterans and the recreation and the U Elder services staff the entire staff the staff to
maintain this will have a full-time custodian and then the users of the building um that that parking count came to about 90 spaces and I think we're providing 92 or 93 on the site there may be like there's an upcoming St Patrick's
Day lunch if that's a sellout event and you have more parking um we've approached the arena to see if we could use that front parking lot and there's been discussions in that regards because they have
similar needs when they're big h games having the parking lot with 90 spaces on the other side of Range Road from their facility would benefit their program so there's a Synergy and what that does it allows us to have less asphalt on our
site which is expensive but it's also very hot in the winter and it increases the amount of storm water management systems that you have to put on the site so this idea of shared parking as it comes to fruition um has a number of of
benefits to it but on a day-to-day basis the parking lot for um recal is sufficient and that's not anticipating parking from the pickle wall facility they have their own
parking okay so on a day-to-day basis we think recop would need 90ish spots that's that's the projection and that that's also based on the traffic engineer has done facilities for us of
this size with gyms and multiple use in situ and sedbury and Falmouth they did Newton um they they've done many of them so there's a lot of good need them they have a lot of good data on how these
actually get used and um so it's it's a experiential um base to the number okay so this lot the lot that we're looking at on this map at recok has about 90 spots we expect day-to-day
parking demand to be about 90 spots but there's also a lot across Range Road that has 90 spots give or take which might during there's 0 in the front and there's additional parking in the back where the town fields are and so the
anticipation was the front would an overflow U opportunity um as discussions with Burbank continue so I guess it just seems to me that there's we're building a lot of parking that is going to sit empty most of the
time right like there's two 90 spot lots that are right across right next to each other and like one of them we're going to need 90 spots during the day and the other we're going to need 90 spots sometimes at night seem like that's a lot of extra parts
maybe the senior center users can't walk that far to the other W I don't know program get close the the design of the center is such that we try to get a good 30 to 40% of the parking within 125
ft of that front door of the building and if you park day to day at Burbank you'd have to cross the road and come in it's an interesting comment because usually get the reverse comment that we need more parking but we we really tried
to right siize this parking lot for the day-to-day use and and then have the Overflow because there are times where Burbank has an event during the day and you wouldn't be able to park so recently on um there was a Monday very large
hockey game not that long ago the Lots would fall and that would have be had been a day that the um Senior Center also be open and then the recal will also have programs in the evening quick question do we know what
the maximum capaity of the building the way that it's used right now it's projected uh the proposed design yeah um I don't have Joel you'd have the number right for the occupancy
well that's there's two occupancies there's a if there's one occupancy that is for the worst case scenario every room is full at the same time and you have to evacuate the building which you'll see that on the drawings and that's an 800
person number but that never happens you don't ever have every room in your building filled to Absolute capacity but the way we do it is we do real scenarios for Morning Noon afternoon and and Peak
events like Thanksgiving launch Valentine's Day St Patrick's Day event a current events a movie a presenter um and the average of that is between uh 80 people
at a low point in the morning to 150 people to 200 in the afternoon and not everybody arrives Solo in a car they have a ratio that has been extrapolated from the other project projects and the
IT standards that project how many cars you need for that many people and that gets us to the number of 90 cars but the projection on average is there'd be about 150 people actively using the building at any one time thank
you don't know if this is a question for you but uh the timeline on construction is nearly not identical but significant overlap with the kilum construction timeline and those sites
are quarter mile half mile apart um I don't know if this is a A recal or a kilum or a town question but that will be a very significant disruption to that area with Hail Street being a main access point to 95 have we given thought
to the impact on traffic and parking and like where are the teachers going to park where you know while all these things are happening there's a lot of cars that are going to need to go somewhere so uh just one construction workers construction workers need to park the kilum staff will need to park
the so those are part of the plans that are put together um for the construction phase um you know the phasing and where the parking is going to be and then during the construction period managing uh traffic issues so if there are big deliveries coming in that would impact
residents or something like that there'd be notification and coordination within the community um to address those yeah so I just making sure they coordinate with each other I think is I wouldn't anticipate any major
problems that um the construction workers they they're they're early it's almost like 6:00 to 2 so they're going to be in very early so you're talking about congestion on holl Street um that that that'll alleviate that quite a bit as far as the recap project I don't see
really an issue with parking that parking lot is going to serve as construction work or parking a lay down area inde dependent on what the status is of the pickle ball courts if that's not done that's even more staging um kill them will be between you know
displacing the fields and you know having teachers and occupied school that that that will be a challenge that will have to be worked out in design development but the construction workers it is like starting at six my my husband's in construction know
starting at six or seven on the road so it's the the the traffic congestion is less impact than you'd think I'd say in the morning yes but in the afternoon when you're talking 230 exit from the site and kilum pick up at 2:45 it's
going to be K K's going to be a challenge it's going to be a real big challenge so you know just where those sites are so close and yeah I mean on the killum project I don't know consider offsite parking somewhere else but I'm sure that can be managed and and this site you know where there's a lot of
land is just right across the street so maybe something like that could work Jo a comment Mark please go ahead um so I think one of the things that I would like everybody to keep in mind is this whole project facility um was
designed first and foremost for the 60 plus community and the advantage of having this type of facility of having this kind of layout down there by by the ice rink is to really leverage all the activities that are there so if the town in fact also decides to support pickle
ball pickle ball it gets a lot of use of the 60 plus community in terms of outdoor pickle ball the gym at certain times can be configured to do is it three pickle ball courts Joel inside the gym yes you can have three conceivably three pickle ball courts inside the gym
and so having all these things allows it to be leveraged I think I shared with you last time and I exaggerate slightly the parts of this building could run 247 I I exaggerate obviously you'd have to service it and keep things going but um we have a lot of needs in
Recreation we have a lot of needs in programming for seniors that we don't accommodate fully today a lot of it is daytime but not all of it and to your point there's nighttime activities that needs to happen um would it take up every single room of the facility
probably not there's probably opportunity that's the programming challenge or programming opportunity to make sure that it works for for the community the other advantage that that I I kind of see with with all these things coming together you know parking brought it up all these different pieces this site allows for these things all to
be close and to be as accessible as possible for a broad swath of the community 60 plus first and then a broad swath that follows the quote unquote dedicated space has been the source of a lot of discussion um and there could be
more dedicated space which means that some of that space is going to be empty more regularly or we can leverage it and use it in other ways the challenge for that is going to be an elder and Human Services to make sure that that that works smoothly with priority for the 60 plus Community as as the
Mantra that's what it's got to be so the opportunity here is to have the the track um above the gym that can be used you know all the time is to have different activities that can take place one of the big challenges that we talked
about early on was how do you get more of the younger 60 plus Community to participate that's a challenge that senior centers in general have and for this community where it's not just reading that has this big bump in 60 plus it's it's this country at least I
don't know if it's broader but it's certainly it's all all over the place there are more folks that are staying here there are more folks that want to utilize different kinds of facilities this is a great opportunity to accomplish that be with
that that's a quick question please so so this facility is going to be only for reading residents and how would we enforce that why you going to enforce it at all or just out of curiosity I think um I'm gonna ask Chris to ask question
yes can you would yes hi uh kki ELD Human Services uh administrator um so the majority of our purchases Pati now is uh reading residents we do reading residents Priority First we do have um
it's under 10% um of out residents outside north ring surrounding towns um but also writing residents also go to surrounding senior centers um the key is uh writing residents are a priority um
to small percentage of outside residents um that come in um one thing I do try to keep in mind is there are a lot of folks who come from outside of town that support us um you know I have a lot of folks who regularly give us some
donations they're like hey here's a check we love being here have some you know this is for you guys um and thank you for allowing us to be here um but we do um make sure that reading residents get top
priority the registration oh what's that through registrations yeah through registrations um and everything so like um trips programs um it's always ready residents first and then if there's any space available after that outside residents can uh jump on um we're
working on details on pricing on that um if we charge outside residents maybe just a little bit more but those details are still being work down and figured out yeah just building on that like you know you've got this walking Track with a basketball court and unless it's
reserved by wreck I mean what's to stop just any you know group of 30-year-olds showing up hey we need IND it's a rainy night let's go go play basketball here and they're driving over from Lynn or whatever you know or Danvers how do how are we controlling
that so right now um one thing to keep in mind is um even at the Pleasant Street Center and the way we're set up now um we have um we do Recreation does use the Pleasant Street Center currently um it's usually um right now the
Pleasant Street Center closes at 4 our usually our last programs kind of end uh start uh at the end of the day at like 3 um and we kind of we building closes at four but we have Recreation and we do a lot of intergenerational stuff um some
of these details need to just kind of still be studied and worked out a little bit but we have a that's the key part right there is we have a great relationship Jim Sullivan myself we work really closely together which works out really well to be able to kind of
control a lot of things um you know on who come who's coming in who's kind of coming out you know what who's doing what and when um which is really nice um you know and it's we're doing that now and it's very successful um on being
able to control um and we have to keep in mind um which is nice um a lot of our older adults um we have a lot of you know we always want to make sure we honor what older adults want a lot of older some older adults there's a
c-port that likes just to be older adults we have another cohort that likes to be works with older kids and have them around they really value that um and we have another one that kind of likes all age range ranges so we try to Value each fo cohort especially for
adults and respect what people I hope that answers your question yeah this is just something new and different this is like a satellite why with all these free facilities that that are great and that are going to draw more than what our current Senior Center has right yeah it
numbers will increase but the nice thing is um with the new center we'll have one main entrance so we can monitor who kind of comes out uh who comes and goes um which will be nice um as you can see on the drawings come in the door through the entrance and the desk is right there
uh we don't have that right now with the Pleasant Street Center you go on the door people can go right upstairs or then go you know two ways um which makes it more challenging so with the design uh the nice design of Joel and everyone um it's nice because we can we can
control who kind of flows in and out and I think in our operational plan we're going to have all of these details by town meeting and I think the intention is to charge all of the non-residents so the senior non-residents will have a certain fee
and then a non-resident child or family from another town um will have a fee as well and a lot of the other similar centers around the um of our Massachusetts have the same type of policies in place so we'll have that buttoned up by town meeting to give to
you all and it will also help us you know pay for a lot of the costs inside the building just charging some non-residents quick question do we know the hours of operation just out of curiosity yep so the rough hours of
operation are now under the FAQ section in our um on our website and offand I don't know them by heart talked about they're not they're not fixed right right now Andre like it's and it's it may differ from different nights where there's demand you know demand
generation is Will staff toward what folks want to do um when we're talking about your scenario Maran is is more like an open gym right so it'd be designated open gym and then people would have to come in and register and tell us who they are and and so forth
but we we would anticipate programming maybe you know men's basketball leagues you know uh yoga um you know those kinds of things would be programmed so people would know charge for use I mean you got to pay for the wear and tear pay for this building I think roughly during the
week it's like 8 to 8 and then on the weekend again like 8 to 3 and Sunday 8 to 2 or something like that roughly so and then obviously after 8:00 pm we can still have programs but not have the whole entire building open so if it's
just um a senior line dancing program we can shut down one whole side of the building and just have the gym open so that's another great feature of this building so we can be a little bit more thoughtful and how we're using it see your line dancing yeah we actually do
have a nighttime now um line dancing program right now so 30 people uh 20 something yes 20 something I'll say 30 yes okay so yeah I'm not sure you want to do this but if you have space in the summer
there's obviously all these hockey camps at Burbank you you might be able to get Synergy there with like programming to use the space me I don't know if the demand goes down in the summertime but you know there's all these sub camp opportunities right you know the nice thing is there's a lot of opportunities
on outer Human Services veterans and Recreation I know my my my goal even in the Pleasant Street Center um and I believe everyone else is I don't want to speak for everyone but is to maximize the usage of this building to its fullest potential you know if we're if
the town's going to pay for this building let's make sure we fill it um let's make sure we have the program so it's used to its fullest potential um I know myself I don't want it to be you know sitting empty and it gives us and this gives us
also an opportunity to look at new and upcoming uh new programming you know I've stated this numerous times you know could we do robots I mean how many retired Engineers do we have in the um uh town that we could do some intergenerational stuff so we could do
robotics we could do woodworking you know we're limited on what we can do now but it's nice that with this building we can think outside the box and bring a lot of programming that we don't have now so we can reach more of the community
numbers it and last one um sorry I see there is a kitchen in there is that a a full long commercial kitchen or it's just like a tiny little one and what what's it going to be used for there has been conversations I think we're leaning more towards the
commercial side that's correct um right now we have community meal we have Community meals um so we need a full capacity kitchen to meet um to meet code um a lot of it is warming up but over the past year even at the Pleasant
Street Center we've added cooking classes and we're trying to again think outside that box um on top of that we also have different dinners and um like the Lions Club comes in and they do a senior dinner the police department comes in and they do a senior dinner and
utilize the kitchen and the stove um so it'll be nice to have first of all larger kitchen again to expand programming but also to meet the needs and continue to meet the needs of the community cooking classes and cooking classes yes yeah the cost estimates
include the commercial kitchen so if there was and that also meets the threshold for the shelter we're going to have a going to hide a cook there or that's not currently in the operational plan injury but if you'd like to fund it volunteers yeah um there are
communities that do have chefs on staff um which I was I had no idea about but that that's a thing if you have a commercial kitchen why not I mean we're just going to drag you on the project and also how do they feed them for Community meals like do they cater what
do yep so right now thanks to arpa um we used to use Elder and um Elder Ser Mr Valley Elder service um but thanks to arpa we have been able to utilize a lot of the local businesses which is really nice because we can kind of give back to the local small
businesses in the town as well so um you know everything goes out on bid um so Mondays um the the um professor's Market has been providing our um Monday Community meals um and for our lunch and
learns um we go to fat Larry's um and then for some of our larger events like St Patrick's Day lunch and um we used uh we've used Battis we've used Mandarin Mandarin um down the end
of town and we used um darar um down across from Home Goods so it's kind of nice um the way it's set up um because we can you know um utilize local businesses Chris yes you might mention that we can seeed 125
um right now um as Marilyn was saying thank you Marilyn um another opportunity that this could provide is right now if we want to do a large meal like we do we go up to the Hill viiew Country Club up the north riding because we just don't have the capacity um and we can some of these
meals we get 150 um we can go up I know for a Thanksgiving meal we have almost 200 people um you know and we could do that in this building um if we if we wanted to so that would be nice to have the space to be able to sit up to you
know that many folks um and it would be nice to have a commercial kitchen so we could pull that off right I don't see any hands I also don't see any on Zoom so thank you very much for presentation so to adjourn do we need to adjourn any
more committees before anyone leaves yeah uh the permanent recal building committee a motion to tojn Second uh Mark o yes Nan ziml uh yes yes John
C yes everything in the uh the kilum school building committee Ed can I get a motion to adjourn got take off mute [Music] first I'm not leaving I'm just
second sancy Tumi yes John C yes Ed Ross we have uh Chris Haley Chris is on he's muted right now we got a yes from Chris is Karen uh yes Karen is still on
motion to adj the select board so can we adj theel second Mark yes anden where thank than thanks folks we need an ergonomic recess or we I just need to
stand through the yeah we can do this all right okay all right all right so next on our agenda is the finance committee Reserve uh transfer request's going to talk about that I can
talk about it um so we're requesting $80,000 60,000 of which is for um election costs and we had some cost overruns for the elections plus we're doing the special elections so there's additional funding needed and we've
listed the several different accounts where we need a little addition additional funding and then we've had some traffic control repairs that have run over what we've budgeted I don't know just you know it's kind of a variable sort of thing when those things come up um and they've requested another
$20,000 so a total of 880,000 across um the election cost and the DPW traffic control repairs Tom Kirk and DPW director are here if you have any specific questions Tom Kirk's on Zoom see you both thank you for being
here um I could probably think a question or to but I want to let other folks go first the justification mentions the presidential election being a significant overcut I would have expected that to come in earlier is that why didn't we hear about this closer to November I guess it's enough I guess
it's something that Laura could probably answer Laura so we didn't necessarily pick up on the extra cost until after we started um until after the election itself it had to the the extra cost came
in with the amount of vote by mail ballots and then also the extra staff that we needed to process all that and that didn't come about until after the November election okay what was the breakdown of of I I'm sure you probably told us
before and I heard it this like Boo meeting or something but what was the breakdown of of in person versus by mail in November do you know by any chance um I don't know the numbers off the top of my head but I can look them up if you want to give me just a second
absolutely I I have a similar question the answer of which will not you know uh is not no matter what the answer is is not going to change my support for obviously funding having the election in May um but uh when we did the budget for
25 did we not anticipate a special election for one or more building projects we did not we we did not also anticipate the election that the special election that we had in May of 20254 as
well right that was that was an FY 24 I think we had to I recall having to allocate money for that because that was an FY 24 problem um with the uh the special election um so the answer to the question question for the November presidential election
we uh vote by mail ballots we had 6,856 ballots that were returned um I don't know the number that was sent out but I can tell you that about 15% are not 15 to 20% are not returned so we can um I would say we
probably sent out about 9,000 ballots in person early voting ballots was 3,16 2 and absentee ballots were 69 I um yes Mar a question so so laa
under the um 10,000 for election supplies SL equipment was there some kind of piece of equipment that broke for that amount of money like what what was was the $10,000 so part uh there's a couple
things that are coming out of that one is that um for the September and November election we were able to get a high-speed scanner to be able to scan the vote by mail ballots that the what
the state leased and paid for it's a $20,000 machine I um the state paid for us to be able to lease it and now we are able to purchase that machine for uh just under $4,000 just over 5 3,000 somewhere in
that that exact center so that's part of that so we will now own the machine um basically we're getting a $20,000 machine for under 4,000 so that's kind of a it's not considered a capital or
expense it's not something no no because we're purchasing it for the 4,000 um as a basically a used machine and it was us that used it okay but it'll save us time getting returns in in the future
can speak to that most definitely okay well no I'm not going to hang on let me step back a second it's not going to save time on getting returns in it's going to save uh Staffing because what was happening before is all the vote by mail ballots were being processed within
the precincts and would have it so within the precinct the machine that um are used within the precincts takes about 8 to 10 seconds for a ballot to be fed through with the high-speed scanner it takes about 8 to 10 seconds for about
50 ballots to be scaned through so it's a lot faster process um it once we get more experienced with it we'll be able to have all of the vote by mail ballots done um fairly early in the
day versus having them stay after the polls Clos to continue feeding ballots through the machine okay cool that's really going to confuse people who like to watch the hourly turnout numbers during elections oh well um that is true they won't be able to compare to
previous years because uh because vote by mail will be put in through its Precinct but it's right I like the you get the numbers by prec with the high speeded scanner you get the numbers by Precinct but you don't get them until the end of the day okay whereas with the um without that you're getting the
numbers throughout the day with by mail ballot yeah but those numbers typically didn't come in till the end of the day anyway when they were being fed in the indiv ual precincts because as someone who's done it that takes lowest priority right
you want to service the voters who are there in person and then feed those at the end so not a huge difference yeah but the scanner worth every penny it is amazing it full support all right strong
testimonial yes okay so another portion of that is that um because of the vote by mail and the the laws that are put in place on what we have to keep um for retention we we have a storage issue so
we have to figure out something to do to for storage um we currently in and I'll be glad to take anybody for a tour but in town hall we have a room in the basement that we refer to as the election room where we store everything um I went down there the other day to
get something out and I couldn't get in the door because everything is just so jam-packed with all the stuff that we have to save and store and if you look behind you you see all those tool boxes that are there that's because we have no other place to put them that's the those are for elections and if you look in the
conference room you'll see that there's stuff stored there too as well so um the other portion of that is to try and figure out what we're going to do about storage I kind of had have a p we have a plan should I go into that plan I was going to
say will it money um most things do but uh yeah so what I'm looking into is purchasing um in that's included in this extra 60,000 um we're looking at purchasing a um store
U help me out here what do you call that box used for shipping a shipping container there you go shipping container um it's a a 10x1 shipping container to put in the town hall parking lot in the area where the dumpster used to be so and if you walk
out to the town hall anytime that I'm there you'll see that my truck is illegally parked in that spot so that's where the dump where the sh shipping container will go for us the store and be able to meet the retention schedule and and will that be secure like considered as as secure as the building
I guess correct yes yes all question does the uh retention have to be paper or it can be electronic it has to be paper so what the retention what I'm
referring to is um we have to keep all of the ballot voted ballots all of the envelopes that those ballots were shipped that came in um all of the paperwork that has to be done with the vote by mail and iners early voting and
the um uh supporting documentation for the entire election for 22 months so what we used to keep was just the ballots now we have to keep the ballots the envelopes and then we're talking the envelopes that we sent them out in and the
envelopes that we that we received them back in all of those have to be kept for 22 months for every election um and that's kind of like tripling our storage space that we had before vot by Mill existed and then after the 22 months I
have to shred them and there is no space up in the attic here oh no way no no much no and you're talking heavy boxes to take up in up in yeah
there's but there's no space up there and if you walk around the town clerk's office you'll see that there's box boxes stored um up against every corner or wall that you can find as well as within the hallway Jam's office is but that has to be in
town hall right it cannot be anywhere else it has to be here close to your it has to be kept secure and I have to have immediate access to it immediate access to it okay and I was I'm only asking because um for example just uh imld has
a beautiful building that's not being new the the um what's it called the old station one yeah station one it's I don't know if they have anything there but yeah well maybe we could take the stuff that doesn't have to be secured near near with the town clerk has to
access other things that are stored at Town Hall other archives and move it there to make more room for her stuff or is there not is she the only one that really has to store stuff paper form we still store certain things upstairs but it is getting pretty full up no upstairs
is is a nog go cuz it's I know how to you cannot get all those boxes up there it's just not feasible no but so the stuff upstairs that you the whatever you can't bring that all right so you can't but you can't if you move that it's just an so there's nothing we can put in the
empty rmld building but I was I don't know if they have space I mean that rmld building I mean I think it needs a lot of work inside before I have no idea how inside it looks very nice from the outside but it would need quite a cleanup Ian they used to actually generate the poiz and and another
interesting idea I don't know if Shannon's going to like this or not but uh our retirement office say this is some space and they they might have some space there I don't know if Laur though can access it though that building actually logs down
at I right yeah but but I don't think they have any space to store anything don't think so oh my God they've got file cabinets in both those extra rooms so I don't know I mean it would make it kind of like the rooms would be kind of
the Optics of having a container out there it's just kind of strange that so just my opinion so right now we also have uh we we own a trailer that all of the election equipment is stored in and that's stored down at
DPW that is full and then we also store stuff over at the police department and that area is is full I guess every town must be facing this challenge then too yes it's something that we talk about at the clerk's conferences on a regular
basis like what are we doing for storage with all this extra stuff that we have to keep um because of the vote by mail and and vote by mail is not going to go away it's going to increase so you know we're having storage challenges now and
the I see the vote by mail numbers going up every election um so which means that we're going to um continue having this problem if not you know getting worse each year another another thing that we have
to store for example uh all of the applications that folks um send in requesting a vote by mail ballot we have to keep those those applications and we have to keep the paper um for 22 months
as well all right there's no place at the senior center right using storage facility thought about you know how would it be if we took a town clerk's office moved into the senior center to the Pleasant
Street Center I know I he move to where the storage is I don't know that's still a couple years away okay it's an interesting conversation but I'm not sure most of it's pertinent to whether we're going to approve this Reserve fund transfer Jo J
I switched to Traffic Control there we go hopefully this will be much briefer but um on that side is there any like um I know it looks like there were some surprises but is there any like underline like infrastructure problem that we have to worry about like that there's going to be like we're sitting on something that well no it's just a
general increase in costs um in repairs you know um electronics are definitely go you know increasing with inflation um you know we had a lot with that traffic signal over here at Main and Salem um but there is funding um that will
hopefully uh get approved um AEL meeting to U Move that signal further north by by about 10 ft to get it away from the intersection so it won't be getting hit all the time feel stop running into it but um yes right pretty much just increased costs and increased frequency
of repairs you know there a there's a lot inside those cabinets and when something goes it's expensive okay yeah thanks have no other questions questions making sure hey Shar one other question on the on the skner somebody was asking
if it was a capital equipment so I think it's got a useful life of greater than a year what's the minimum cost for Capital Equipment it's got to be at least $5,000 okay all right there we go good thing we got it on
sale all right any other questions to approve the uh Reserve FR transfer as presented second second oh thank you Gran thank you Andre um all right any further discussion before we
vote all right starting on Zoom uh Mark yes Ed yes Joe yes Emily yes Maran yes Jeffrey yes Henry yes John yes and Joe yes is that nine that was 9 Z yeah
now we actually have a this awesome committee people actually come to stuff has to sign this did you actually you brought it too yeah sign that I assume I can do that after we adjourn right can exactly all right so
let's um right all right let's keep moving along so uh next item is to vote on snow and ice deficit spending um is that snow and ice has been kind to us the last couple years not so much this year um you'll notice
that um at April town meeting we're having to ask for $275,000 for snow and ice so the last couple years been very mild this year not so much so anytime we do um go into a deficit we have to have it approved so
that if if we fail to ask for enough money or we don't we we don't even bother to ask for money for it that's a legal deficit that we can have and we can raise it on the recap but you have to have permission so that's what the formality of this is It's just to let you know that I can see that we're going
into deficit so that you're aware they're doing deficit spending and we're going to obvious they do what our normal practices which is go to town meeting and ask for the additional funding out of free cash but if it happens to go over even what I ask for this allows for
that deficit spending to be acknowledged um by by the fincom and DLS will acknowledge it having been approved so I guess then we are looking for a do you need the vote for a vote it vote so I was just going to say it looks like we're looking for a motion to
approve approve the uh uh deficit spending uh for snow and ice removal as presented in the packet so moved thank you Emily second second thank you H uh any discussion before we vote just just quickly I I don't know if
that's a question for um like yeah like the break the breakdown between like private contractors and doing this in house I I know there's definitely been more snow and ice this winter right but do have is it some of the costs coming from that we're doing more in house with
overtime or private contracted costs have gone up more or well so so far this winter you know a lot of it is overtime um because when the storms get to it's been on weekends um we had a couple of holidays you know so that's like double time right there um you know those
contractual obligations too you know with with these storms you know based on how many hours they work consecutively so that's that that's a lot of it right there um plus then we had a lot of um you know saling events you know so we've gone through a lot of Road Sal
which to yes no snow on school days much to my son's dismay this year know or there was one early release that's it but I got to say that they do a fantastic job compared to other towns because I drive through people in here it's [Music]
like big difference do appreciate it a hard job all right any other discussion all right Let's uh vote um Mark yes Ed yes Joe yes Emily yes hereiam yes
Jeffrey yes hry yes John yes and Joe yes all right uh yeah thank you Chris all right um we have a spot for future agenda discussion um I think we uh have a uh
you know we've already talked a bunch about our our four-week um I don't know what to call it Marathon or Sprint Sprint it's a Sprint I don't know it's it's a four we is a long time to Sprint but uh uh so you next week obviously we get the you know the real
fund starts we have the town budget that's right um I believe uh you know uh Sharon's given information to the whole committee about you know the um uh and and we've seen the budget um as proposed so obviously that's what
we'll be talking about um committee already asked and has received information about um updated free cash projections um and the spreadsheet for that um is there anything we need to add to the agenda I think the bu will yeah I was
say Jack Jackie sent me a draft agenda the agenda is like welcome public comment hearing on the budget approv minutes um so yeah that'll be um cool all right um anything else that we need to be
thinking about for other future agendas talked about the you know in the past we've talked about the the splitting how we split our cash between free cash and stabilization fund um I don't know if that's
a something people actually care about or not but all right not hearing anything else all right then we have some minutes to uh approve I have one comment certainly the
minutes um I don't know how you how you do this but when we were here in the audience and I don't know if he signed in but Dana Gino was in the audience um he was not you know on zooms like I could see Karen Rose Gillis and
Christopher cook but I was looking right at him so he signed he signed in I don't know if he signed in though oh he did sign in when I walked up I saw his name he he did sign it okay but I don't see him listed as others present jaie was not here so yeah oh
yeah I guess we wouldn't Jackie might not have known so that's why I'm just telling Jackie so it's Dana Gino she just put it in all right thank you yeah Maran is that typo in your name there uh where I didn't oh it is good catch um uh
in the as reports third paragraph the bottom of page one oh yeah there's no a I didn't even notice in my own name I was like looking everywhere else I kind of I focus more on the content yeah that's a yeah
all right motion to approve the 226 finance committee meeting minutes as amended thank you Emily thank you Jeffrey any further discussion before we
vote all right uh Mark yes Ed Joe MCD yes Emily yes GR yes yes Jeffrey yes andry yes John yes andry really wants to approve these minutes Joe Gan yes as
well second thank you Emily thank you maranne uh Mark yes Ed Joe yes Emily yes Maran yes Jeffrey yes andry yes John yes and Joe yes thank
you all see you next week e e e