##VIDEO ID:q883baUrPz0## e e e let call Fin order I do have the zoom participants up it doesn't look like um I see I see one school Committee Member and two members counting one in person we're not coring there yet but I'll try to keep thank welcome everyone um so uh agenda tonight is is um the uh you know biggest questions that we consider every year of course the use the free cash to support the budget um uh we're also tonight going through to order please oh uh Carlo has joined okay cool sorry my bad um please do look like hey to order is there anyone there in person yes Karen is all right do a rollen here Chris here car is here and Melissa just joined Melissa you here yes I'm here all right thanks thank you thank you car thank you for all right okay um so uh finance committee is not yet get hybrid although we are expecting one to join hybrid eventually but for now I won't do a roll call since we're all here actually don't know the is if we become High recommend meeting but um all right so um oh we are here okay so I will go ahead and do a finance committe roll call um uh since we are now hybrid um give Emily a second to unmute and then uh so uh Emily SS here so no worries wor two minutes after um this whole starting on time thing is not to work at my my job um Jeffrey cor here Ed Ross here Joe here John Sullivan here Maran dowy here uh Mark zaro here Joe caran here all right so um I was just starting to recap the agenda we have um Leon reports we have discussion of use of free cash for the budget and voting on that uh and then we are going over the subsequent town meeting warrant um we've also been asked to um appoint a representative to the uh newly forming Eastern Gateway steering committee and then we should talk about uh planning Financial Forum 2 which is only a few weeks away so let's get started uh does anyone have any liaison reports so the uh school department appointed Phil littlehale is the interim Director of Finance to replace D PTO who left on somewhat short notice um so he's I expect him to make help them out with their for the uh the budget [Music] cycle uh um I will confess I've only seen parts of the very long select board meeting last night I can more confirm and and Carla was here so correct me if I'm wrong what didn't happen there's a contemplation of reallocation of $80,000 of arpa money that I think is from the money allocated for recal and not the so the the 300K that rack that everyone voted to allocate towards the recal project and not the 600k for Elder services and there was a suggestion that maybe that could be allocated to cover a proposal for pickle ball courts but no vote was taken correct Karen do you want to yeah you can add to that too cuz you were there yeah I and um just to be correct I don't disagree you I think the total number was 108 oh 108 I'm sorry I thought it was 80 on on the pickle ball presentation that I saw department has put forward proposals and in addition to pickle ball we considered um there's some other proposals that Sharon put forward like uh a shortfall in uh sewer and considering if this pilot for second sprinklers goes through um there a couple other items that sh Paving sidewalks you know just to give them some we need to use it by December 31st 24 so it has to be encumbered so it has to be something that we know we're going to do right away um or encumber it or enter into an agreement yeah I was puzzled about when I saw the pickle ball proposal like well do you have a somebody who's agree design and someone's agreeing to design it for that amount of money okay then that's then that's good to know but I think there's more things that are up in the air with with with more what happened last night I think they wanted to hold off and had more information yeah anyone else that a little bit um I I talked with Jenna a little bit after seeing pickle ball on the agenda so want to get her perspective um but so Maran and Karen spot on but um just to add that the pickleball Community has raised um you know a ton 120k and so they're they're hoping to you to donate donate that the effort and there's uh I think 100K in FY 26 in the capital plan um toward it so there's there's a couple of different little pockets um so they're hoping uh they're going to shoot for spring meet Spring Town Meeting to see if we can get a vote um the other thing that is uh fiscally motivated in in the community services realm they have a volunteer coordinator who is with them and has been funded through the ARA funs through fy2 um and apparently she's the bomb and they really want to keep her on so they're trying to figure out um how they can use some of the money from their revolving fund to kind of fund her at 10 or 15 hours um a week just to keep her she's been really good at coordinating programming and then um longterm they're thinking of trying to figure out how to fund a part-time therapeutic wck person uh which would also probably come out of the evolving fun in wreck um cuz it's part-time it be low so they're they're looking to kind of rejigger some money to keep some staff on and um figure out a way FY 25 and FY 26 that's what I got um for my part oh go ahead just the K School building committee met last week um still on track um we are um they had a presentation in front of uh msba um waiting to hear back for that at the end of the month um um and then we'll move on to um schematic design um and that should um and then there's still a few things still yet to be determined um from an overall um building you know kind of the guts of them building as far as um you know systems and things of that nature as far as um heat um air um all that that uh so that's still to be determined but um on track and should have more um I think our meetings are going to start to pick up a little bit more as they get closer to um working on uh schematic design um we should also hear back from the msba um on the approval I I think it's everyone feels it's a foreground conclusion but we should be able to get official word I think it's later on this but I it's the 30th I right about that I think so yeah all right so um I think this happened since our last meeting but the um CPA study committee's uh charge has been extended um uh we did a short presentation of the select board and um uh so there's not a the committee is not recommended a particular date for when CPA should be considered but um not certainly not uh a month a month from now and um you know more closer to two years from now would' be more likely Target um but we have time now to uh research possible projects you know collect updated information on on what how much might be collected and what it would cost people um things like that anything else all right moving on to discuss and vote on use of free cash to support the FY 26 budget um Sharon did you want to say something to start us off or so I handed out the kind of the slide they talked about nothing's really changed about what the numbers are in terms of getting these operating budgets but there are some things that are in flux that um I feel it's important to mention so as part of the financial forecast under accommodated cost um there's like a 20% I think um increase for the um rubbish line um because so much was uncertain about what those were going to look like so we went with worst case scenario shortly after we did our accommodated cost presentation we did get a proposal back for Kant they do the disposal part of the contract and and at the end of fiscal 26 the um collection one will be up anything we've gotten from The Collection portion has been outrageously high and which is what's driving us to go with those percentages because they've been outrageous kant's proposal was was much more reasonable um and so I feel like there's a chance that we'll be able to bring that number down and bring down the free cash use the only other issue is is that within the financial forecast we also have a million 50 for New Growth and the assessor said to me I'd feel more comfortable if you brought that down to like 800,000 so the net of whatever it would be I mean there's maybe $350,000 savings on that rubish line that could be um reducing free cash had it not been for the new growth so maybe we're talking 100 150 it could go down um but worth mentioning just because the information wasn't there and time for us to have our presentation at Financial forum and just something to note that there's always that potential anytime we do identify something savings you know before we vote the budget we can reduce the free cash number um we also have health insurance up I think it's 8 and a half% we've not seen a number like that in a long time but that's per Maya's recommendation um and we are starting to see our numbers creeping up in the fives the last couple years so it's a very real possibility so if if that number were to come lower you know that' be a good return on free cash or we could use it for something else at a future town meeting but a lot of these numbers are kind of driven by what our contact at Maya tells us about Property and Casualty workers and health insurance and so that's why those numbers look the way they look but there could be some flux later um as those numbers become like real numbers when we actually hear something back from Maya but what our actual rate will be so that's all I have I ask on that new growth is that are there projects that we thought were going to come online this year that are not done yet or something that I think that the number this year came in lower than we expected so he was a little more nervous about next year's numbers so he's like I think better to be conservative and have more than be optimistic and have less um so and are those projections based on projects that are it's really hard to know what's going to be billable by the time we get there we're planning so far in advance so some of these things could actually end up in fiscal 25 you know so he he said better air on the side of caution and maybe bring those numbers down but we had been seeing really great New Growth numbers we had peaked at like a 1.7 and then we're trying to bring it back down because that's not a typical number for us so um I think that it's a good point and I would like to bring it down and so when we get that contract signed with Kant I don't want to change anything on the forecast until we have a real number where we've signed a contract but their proposal was a good one so a reasonable one the other one is not so reasonable which is driving our numbers before so let me just open this up for uh comments and and questions and thoughts on this uh I can talk but you better not let me Joe Jo I'm just thinking as a straw man and Sh you jump in but if you look at like revenues like before free cash and I know this is like tons of caveats right some projections but that's like 3.23 to like 3.39 I mean just as a strongman when we start something like 3.3 what numbers are you looking at I'm sorry oh I'm sorry the budget like you know that fits in the package yeah what what what numbers just looking out for like the next you know four four years say like fiscal 25 right before use of free cash right yes and I'm just saying like looking at growing you know the operating budget at the same amount as revenues cuz I guess my concern is like the tech this before but the more we keep building that base right the harder it's going to be because we're headed for like an overrider you know MH you know ulate a lot of caution it's like you know that just I know it's it's hard to look at it um in fiscal 25 and 26 because our over overall numbers look different than what they they would typically be like for instance in fiscal 26 it says 2.48 that's because the debt exclusion goes away so our numbers are looking kind of skewed because the the debt the excluded debts going away and the revenue related to it so it just makes it look like a lower increase over the prior and the same thing was happening in fiscal 25 we had excluded debt going away for the high school and wood end those debt payments went away and so did that additional Revenue that we charge the taxpayers so it skews the way our Revenue looks in the years when those things fall off so so it it doesn't help us for sure um for 27 to 29 like we don't have that right that that assumption there is you know new growth and what we've typically seen from like other sources of revenues so you're proposing using numbers more like that I'm just thr out there yeah like is it 3.3 I don't know because the more we grow that operating budget it's going to be harder to adjust for that or you just wait for an over just what do we have for regeneration or the so the fiveyear average for regeneration is about $6 million and last year it was it's not certified yet so I can't say they're going to hit us with something I didn't count um but it looked like the Regeneration was at seven last year but also in that number was about $350,000 from finally getting feo money for the pandemic so years ago that actually was spent out of our general fund so went back to the general fund so there are always these little things these little surprises that come in I mean FEMA is one of those things where you could have a storm and it could be two years later and you're getting money so we've already paid all the cost and the money comes back and something like that is happening in F School 24 that you can't count on happening in the future years but seven is a really high number for US I've never seen a seven so I don't want to count on a seven but our fiveyear average is above six yeah if the average is six then you know we we just heard you say we're going to budget conservatively on the new growth right so we I tend to be conservative Revenue assumptions are conservative and that's why we end up with the Regeneration so I wouldn't have a problem with you I would think there actually be prob should use something closer to 6 million of free cash since that fits the long-term average you're Jeffrey you saying the use of free cash at six yeah million yeah but the other thing that's that we talked earlier I talked with Sharon earlier the the amount of interest is still high and the budget is about half of what it's been running so there's still trying have to count on the interesting because when it's high like that it's not going stay that way so we don't want to be counting on it but yeah there's definitely but still if there's a couple of million that's not in the revenue line for that so we're we're going to regenerate it's not I mean you still have 2 million in the budget so we're we're not going to be off by 50 % you know part of it is the balance of free cash and the other part is the rate so we're going to have some regeneration from that with these numbers so you know if these are the way they are we won't need the it won't be at 6 million the need I think that we've always kind of been on the on the side of very conservative in terms of we look at our Revenue numbers and we pick numbers that are realistic that we think are very attainable and we know we have the big cash and so that's why we regenerate the way we do because we do the numbers do raise rise and you just don't know what what numbers are going to be in the next you know we're building a budget for fiscal 26 it's you know almost 18 months away so you don't know what the economic environment and all that's going to be when this budget actually unfolds and so we tend to be very conservative and we know we have the free cash we don't know what each one of these Revenue types are going to be and so I think that that's always kind of been the practice and it's worked in our favor I I dread when it doesn't work in our favor um but the numbers of free cash that we're using are higher than I've ever seen so that in itself makes me nervous yeah I think the other side of that is true um but I also think to your earlier point we're also regenerating you know at a at a at a clip that's you know I think commiserate to that so like even if the net is still net negative you're not regenerating more than you're using it's still you know kind of probably more in line historically with what you would use from free cash to supplement um so you know again in you know I know that there's been a lot of um you know uh good you know kind of positive work that's that's happened you know kind of renegotiating um you know kind of contracts both on the school side on the town side um you know for um um uh from from that perspective um and I think it goes a long way to say that you both all of those done all of those were done um without any drama um they were done you know kind of on time early um and um and if this is the you know the the the byproduct of it where we're using a little bit more free cash on the on the on the front end um with you know kind of collective fingers across that things um regenerate um I think that's you know kind of a positive and then we've also I think the level of service um um that you know we are um as residents are getting from both the town um and the the numbers from the schools are super positive on on both sides of it so I think um you know from my perspective you know having something that's you know in the three and a half three and 3/4 range um as far as um you know a supplement to budget I think is you know kind of on target with what we've done historically um and and kind of allow for the you know the town as a whole to you know to kind of you know continue um supporting um the the staff um and the services that they provide to the community so but that's that's where I I sit on it based on you know kind of a lot of the you know being able to kind of look based off the sharing's numbers and also you know kind of just taking a wider view as far as you know the positives that are happening you know kind of across the community from what we what what we're getting from the town and the schools um just so if I'm understanding with this with the with the Regeneration and free cash is this essentially at this level of use like say we're we're using approximately 6 million and that's around the Regeneration that's going to keep the um free cash balance from growing or keep it the same you notice how it's been creeping up a little bit it could decline you know we don't know what the future holds but the more you use the more likely you are to see the number drop um and so the these numbers do concern me just because they're large right and I think as I pointed out talking to a couple of you earlier today and I did send this to the chair like it it the inflation is pretty inherent in the free cash usage numbers now compared this year compared to last year I had done it I can't really get this on camera where I was looking at what you said for FY 25 versus 26 and a 3 and a half% support in fy2 would cost us you know uh 3 8 9 million and now it's costing us 5.8 million and I know there's regeneration so it doesn't look like that but still there's 2 million of inflation in there that it's it we're not going to if if that continues we're not going to be able to sustain that either we've had so many years of just inflation all over the place all over our budget so it's been it's been rough I mean we've got a lot of things going on with inflation in terms of um even like with the Vocational School on top of like probably increased tuition we have Capital that's being charged to us because they're building a school and that was an additional $260,000 on our budget and then we're hit with almost every accommodated cost going up a percentage out of the ORD and then it all wraps into a budget that looks pretty normal because we have excluded debt falling off and it makes it look like it's a tame number but it is anything but tame so it's it's a hard budget it's for sure but in a position where in a different time it's a this is a much harder conversation um and we're fortunate in and having um a lot of you know kind of good you know fiscal uh management so in in in a time where you know we're we're lucky that we have the balances that we have that we can we can weather this and we can and I and I feel we can probably weather it pretty well and we're not put you we're not putting you know the town's finances in in in major Jeopardy no I mean I think we all agree like I love how Sharon is so conservative i' read you be you know conservative but I mean we shouldn't be using free cash to support our operating budget right from a municipal Finance perspective the way we are right so well I mean there was there was a guy who made that you know that claim you shouldn't use free cash at all but it sort of I think that it just assumes a different way of budgeting not as conservative on how much regeneration they're going to get I mean if we're regenerating $6 million a year and we don't use any of that to support the operating budget you know then the free cash balance just goes huge and like okay we'll build kill them out of the $50 million of free cash that we built up over you know 10 or 15 million and and it gets back to the level of service that you're providing to to the residents in the town so I think that you know again we have to operate under how we budget um and um and Joe I I completely understand and and understand that that number looks and is High um but by the same token to to Jeffrey's point you know there's there's money that comes back on the back end will it be we none of us have a crystal ball you can only go off of historical averages and even if you're conservative off the historical averages we're not going to be using all of that like we that we're not going to the the free cash B could go down $2 million $25 million again we're still operating so so we're treating it like an advance on the Regeneration of that's exactly what it is kind of really is that's that's exactly what it is I mean the budget was kind of created B like with that in mind just being very conservative because you don't want to have um a revenue shortfall in the middle of a budget and then have to cat your budgets you know so you want to be conservative and D do actually encourages us to be conservative they actually will push back back at you if you're trying to push a number through that's too high or they don't think you're going to get you have to support the numbers that you give do when you're putting through your tax recap they want to know why do you think the number is going to be a 10% increase that's outrageous 10% you know and then you could say well this number has been over you know and the interest income for one I had a 100% increase they're like they didn't even question it but I mean they question it but like my answer was we've collected double our interest income for the last four years over this amount of money I have to support what I'm doing if it if the percentage doesn't jive with what they consider to be reasonable and so that's kind of how everything started to be built in that direction they they kind of promote that conservative budgeting style I think we're probably more conservative than most um and but it then it tends to lend itself to Regeneration for us I apologize Jo could from the middle what you were saying oh no no yeah we stand back up think the thing I want to say too is like I'm just worried about the scenario in a couple years where rast taxpayers debt exclusion and killum Living Center CPA and we say oh by the way we need know and I I just would hate that scenario like I I hope we never get to that point a big I think we all have the same concern I but I like 3.25 versus 3.75 is like 200,000 you know it's not we're not talking millions of dollars you know so I mean that that that is one thing that so several things struck me about the information Sharon's given us um and but before I say anything about that I want to like I think Joe's concern about or you know the fact that we we take this huge Advance on our regeneration every year and we use it and I mean my understanding I'm not an expert my understanding is that this is not what most towns do and so I am curious why are we different um I mean we have a great CFO but like is that is it simple is that or is there something you know like and is there a is there a path to doing things the way that everyone tells us we should do it I I don't actually know I'd like to explore that question not tonight tonight we have to pick a number so that Matt and Tom can go make their budgets um but I do think that is a you know I too am uncomfortable with the fact that we are doing something different and it's working really well right now but like we are one off year away from blowing a third of our free cash in one year um yeah nobody wants to do that so but I also think that if that and again you're talking about something that's going to happen in 18 months and in 18 months you'll have to deal with that scenario you know um you know at that time and so at that time you're you're you're talking about making cuts you're talking about you're you're talking about you know um and and I think that's and we're always we're we're we're putting it as a point in time but that's what this this this staff does every day that's what they're managing every day they're they're they're looking at it um you know what's happening there's a there's a perfect marriage between how the town's run and how it's and how it's financed and so again I'm I'm I'm not discounting everyone's concern um but I but I also think that it's worked well um in the past and that that the fact that the numbers are a little bit higher than they historically have been we've all kind of pinpointed the reasons why that exists one thing that I'll just kind of follow on from Joe's point we we should have this conversation about you know about everything that's going to be put in front of the taxpayers um you know at some point in time an override will come at some point I mean so I I I I think it's it would be probably we would be doing much more of a disservice to say that yeah yeah it's not going to happen you know because that's that reality every town doesn't um last one we did the last I don't know 3 to five years 3 to five years and we're 8 years what are we8 years in just 26 will be eight yeah just 26 is 8 years so we're you know we're you know um um a big you know analogy guys we're we're job we're on we're the grants and things we got lucky in Cate with that arpa money right so some of that repeated for the future I mean that helped to having all that Federal money but in some cases it hurt us in some ways too because when the money goes away and you've created positions and things like that you have to build that in your base has come higher now so I mean during the pandemic we were very fortunate to have all that money but some of those positions are still necessary and we had to You Know cover that in the next years to come so it's it's difficult for sure not most comfortable but the thing that concerns me is that the $7 million override we asked for failed and we're already at these numbers you know so that's the other thing so yeah I mean I of course every house in town also got twice as expensive in that time so I not even sure what the impact is of the 7 million override at this point I don't either um so yeah I mean the other Joe you made another important observation that that I was going to make if nobody else did which was that um uh all the difference between the numbers on this I'm pointing at at at Sharon's 26 26 free cash uses slide um you know there's only a little over a million bucks difference between the absolute top and absolute bottom of the range we're considering and the bottom of the range is way higher than what we spent out of free cash last year yeah so um what that my take away from that is you know we are going to spend a lot of free cash unless we are going to do drastic like just to do level service um because of the accommodated cost increases that we've talked about um the rubbish the uh benefits the other inflation on the capital items too which is killing us oh that's been very difficult to manage so I mean it's it's um you know we're all alarmed by the fact that all these numbers are bigger than the biggest number we considered last year um but at the same time I don't we don't have a you know the numbers don't care about our feelings um we we have to make a budget that balances here there are other options we could entertain that I was looking at in terms of you know we have some debt that's authorized but not issued you could push projects off and say well we don't need to do five we could do four and a half and you could push things down and bring bring projects you know bring the free cash use down by a couple hundred thousand but then you're pushing a project off and it could get more expensive but those are options I think they're years like when the pandemic started I think we did a 4 and a half um that first year you know we were bringing all the revenues down and we went to a four and a half we took down our opv number um that that's always an option and also during that after that period we went with an additional 700,000 per capital so for a period of time we were doing 5 and a half we could for a couple years do four and a half if that was you know to try and pull back some of it but once you use a certain level of free cash you need that amount the next year to even just as a starting off point the budgets don't go down so it it you're building a cliff you know and I mean in the absence of New Growth we we are in the absence of of significant New Growth so yes absolutely that might change with interest rates going down I feel like that held out like the chapen street that didn't go in and I don't know about Eaton Lake View there were these things that we were expecting right and they they dropped off so now we we're below our 40b 10% but that's that also means those were projects that weren't done yeah and I don't know if they're going to get restarted or sold as some other developers going to look into it especially if interest rates go down and it becomes more affordable so that could swing but then give up two or 3% on a free cash that we've you know collecting the timing of it isn't good that's for sure with with the debt exclusion is coming up it's not it's not timing I would choose for any of this so all we can do is show that we managed the last one well and positive things that happened you know good positive changes in the schools and necessary projects and it wasn't like okay cuz we hadn't had a vote for an override in you know there was a failed one in 2001 I don't think the town before we 2000 there was yeah 2003 and then there was a failed one in 2016 and then passed into right so I mean it had been a long time and we made we extended it as much as we could but I've seen overrides fail in communities around us comparable overrides MOS and um North Reading failed within the last year so I don't yeah certainly not taking it for granted but yeah I'm I I think plus one to your point about the best we can do is is to you know show that we have managed the taxpayers money as well as we could we can't there are things outside of our control go is outside of our control frankly the health insurance costs are outside of our control the public understands inflation because they're experiencing it too yeah and when we had that fuel contract back when Fidel was here went up 30% but those are not normal growth numbers you know so again that's not uh you know we can we can go to the voters with a straight face and say look the only reason you know we've been keeping it at you know 3 and a half% growth for the budget that we actually control the stuff that's out of our control 20% went up 8 1 12% went up 9% and that's you know the only reason we have to have to go back to the voters if that happened so 2 and a half% would be the prop 2 and a half where we were allowed to go up like that that amount of growth which is below this I'm not saying we do that but that's the lowest we can credibly keep moving forward is two and a half Oh you mean the I mean like growth and operating budget not grow not usage that would be pretty tight because we have so many contracts just negotiate cont contract numbers higher than two and a half well I mean it was definitely the union contracts this last time around because of inflation you know the unions were pushing back stronger for higher numbers because they're feeling it in their pocket understandable and my understanding is that's you know the contracts we did were you know just getting us in line with pure communities it's not like we're splurging so and we managed to avoid strikes anyway with our with our staff far which other communities were not able to do so Joe are you willing to take anybody from should certainly um oh I do see we've got uh yes we have two hands raised on Zoom thank you I'm neglecting Zoom um I don't know which of you raised your hand first um I guess Tom you can go first because you're the one who pointed this out to me thank you I raised my hand first and car NOS um so first of all I just want to thank everybody for the thoughtful consideration and here I think there's a lot of factors at play that you all are working through um in a very conscientious fashion um to to a couple of the points yes the the union contracts are a big portion of what we need to account for here um and yes Joe as you alluded to a lot of it was um musling Market adjustment not necessarily just inflation based but getting ready to be more middle of the pack as supposed to bottom of the pack um which hopefully will help us when the time comes from an override perspective with that said um I do think we should be really conscious of trying to avoid uh an override as long as we possibly can I think the The Perfect Storm item that Joe's putting out there is is one that is is almost too realistic right now um as we look at the forward next couple of years with the kill and boat The Seer Center boat potentially a CPA vote um and then adding on a potential override vote that is going to be bigger than the vote that that didn't pass most likely um last time consciously you know as you look at you're operating at the total budget if we look from a percentage perspective you know we're going to that that free cash num is going to just keep going up and up and up and I think Sharon kind of had a slide last time if I recall correctly that showed what that projected number would be over multiple years where you know next year it's more like a 7 7 million and the year after it's more like an 8 million or something like that when you talk about 3 and 1 half% number or something as a range so I would encourage you to continue to be thoughtful about that and you know I heard a couple numbers people thrw out you know um Joe I think you threw out like three and a quarter you know um I think I heard three and three quarters um somewhere between Jeff and Ed you know there might be a compromise there at three and a half um just as something that works I think from a school perspective where we're all we're we're pretty confident that three and a half can work for us um so if that helps at all I don't know if it does um but anyway I just wanted to put that out there unless we need to do as much as we can within reason to extend the override conversation as far past some of these upcoming Capital votes that we know are coming um well while the public may be willing to say yes there's been inflation they're going to say they've already dealt with that inflation and now we're asking them for more inflation from their perspective so that's just a reality that we have to deal with you know I think most people in that room were were through the 2016 failure and they saw a lot of the feedback so we that's a that's a difficult conversation to have and the longer we can avoid that conversation the better off we'll be thank you Carlo thanks um yeah I Echo Toms and Mark as far as the conversation that's been going on but and I'm not sure if Sharon brought this up tonight about the trash budget that's going to at least double um and and that's coming and that's very very real and and we don't know how much more than double so I I think whatever number you settle on I i' hope you'd factor that in at a minimum because you know it's so volatile out there that when we go out to bid next year we don't know what's coming back um but we know it's going to be double so I I just want you guys to keep that in mind um you know the old word is real but as Tom just said you know we've all been hit hard with inflation and next year when we have these votes uh in 25 and 26 on the two big projects and you know CPA is also going to be in 26 so far I think the taxpayers are just going to really push back and you know maybe it'll fail the first time and and pass the second year uh like it did but um I just worry that too much I'm always on the conservative side anyway as far as finances go uh like Sharon but I think the trash piece of it is a big one um and never mind other emergencies that we have with water and sewer and and you know anything else operationally that that we have to deal with everything costs more um you know you guys are going to go over the warrant and it's not because of cost but the the high school flooring is uh going to be on the warrant and they're just asking for a different kind of flooring and that's just increasing the price so it's not really inflation related but I'm sure there's some costs of inflation in there obviously so that's all I have I know you guys are going to do your thing but I just hope you keep that in mind thanks appreciate the comments for both of you um and yeah I'm I'm looking at I can't show you my screen easily but um the uh the broken out accum cost forecast that Sharon produced and she said it's a you know she forecasted a you know $500,000 increase in the rubbish line next year and then another 250 increase after that and then 3% increases after that because presumably by then we're in a new contract but but it's going to go up a lot before it levels off into the new contract so yeah that is um that is exactly why these numbers are so scary and that's why like as Tom pointed out the I think Tom you're probably referring to I'm guessing you're referring to the free cash projection spreadsheet that um Sharon projected which is one of my favorite tools here and that that includes some terrifyingly huge like you think you think 5.8 million for 3 and half% is a lot well then you look at the projection for you know 7 million the following year it's because of it's the same reason these these uh skyrocketing accommodated costs yeah I think that's what I was referring to Joe is is that forecast of of what it's going to look like in the Years out if we maintain a three and a half number or something else like that what that looks like so and those things point at some point we're going to have to I guess the question I mean to some of the points Ed was making before uh at some point we're going to have to really start tightening the belt I think the question is do we want that to be an extreme tightening you know or do we want it to be a controlled gradual tightening um and we can in my mind we can do a little bit more of a controlled gradual tightening if we keep the the number here at like three and a half then if we keep going to a 3 and a qu or four at which point we end up hitting a cliff to Shar to Sharon's point from before and we have to come in at 2 and A2 and it's like it's an extreme tightening so I think that's the another way to think about it is how do we maintain how do we manage the tightening in a way that we can we can limit the the service disruption in the process of of of tightening over over a period of time you mean like weing the increases down gradually a little something to that end I mean and I guess Joe goes to your point of of can we get to you know almost a zerob based you know uh adjustment of free cash usage I don't know that that's realistic anytime soon for some of us but you know maybe it is maybe we keep the overall number you 5 58 60 whatever that is at a relatively static level but the percentage goes down over time or something as a result of keeping that that free cash absolute number instead of percentage number level I'm just brainstorming right now because it's obviously I don't have the tool in front of me Joe that you have that you know you actually have the spr sheeet I don't I just have the the packet so something to think about just to see if we can control control that that that decrease instead of uh hit hit a cliff and have to hop off the cliff I think I think Tom at that point it's just mirroring what what the what for the town and for the schools what the priorities are and and and and weighing you know uh weighing that you know which I think is it's an educated assumption it's happening all the time so I think it's you know it's one of those things where you know there's you know everything is you know aspirational when it comes from you know what what you want to be able to offer you know uh uh the uh the residents you know whether it's from the town or the schools and you just have to marry that to to to you know what what you can pay for um and you know and and and striking that balance and I have a lot of faith um and um in leadership to be able to do that they've done it historically um and it's you know there there will be some tightening that's going to happen um but I I I agree with you I think it's something that it's much better to do it over a gradual basis knowing and and and I think that's why these this conversation is so important because you're getting ahead of it um and so everyone knows that that's what we're going to be operating on when we have this conversation next year those are the types of things that you'll be looking at so uh again I have a lot of faith that that we can that we can handle it that way um we've done it historically um but it's it's it's it's a different conversation than it has been in the past but I I I think that you know the the team is is is well positioned to be able to handle it Sharon do you when you come up with these ranges I mean do you look and say okay I'm not going to propose a percent increase that is larger than you know 80% of the average regeneration per year of the Last 5 Years like like something like such that we could app I mean if we if we want to take a chance and saying okay well regeneration we can't always predict it but I don't like any of these never to I know so like I mean be conservative I build the budget with the projected revenues and the accommodate cost and then and then that what what an operating budget would need to be like I kind of the free cash ends up being kind of the plug in some ways because some of the numbers you just can't control the accommodated cost cannot be controlled and the things that have to happen unless we change benefit or you know if there's a tendency to want to like increase your Revenue projections to make this all work but then you put yourself in a spot where we could be midy year you know trying to cut our budgets because we're having a revenue deficit or having to add the free cash then anyway so it's it's a it's a hard thing these none of these numbers make me happy this is not something I would love to recommend um but there there really isn't much choice well we're hearing 3 and a half% from the school side does the town side yeah we we're in agreement with that number that number will work for us you given the new contracts we have the the increases and expenses we thought about it um met with Sharon about it I've talked to the school department about it and we are comfortable with the three and half% and would hope that that's what you decide on tonight does someone want to make a motion to recommend a usage of $5.8 million in free cash to support bfy 26 budget sove thank you Ed second second uh thank you John second um any further discussion before we vote prop an amendment I think so just trying to figure out how Rules of Order work for this yeah I'm sensitive to like the town and school but like even at 3.4 I I still think like a slower tightening on the belt is better than you know like that doesn't seem like so like 3.4 would be like probably like 100,000 less not even that right CU it's 200 it's 200 between each yeah so it's like 60 70,000 yeah you know across the you know 100 you know making it a 3.4 just to to start to tighten it a little bit more so I'm going to channel my inner moderator and ask is there a uh second for that well first do would you accept as a friendly no no no okay and then second is there ra is there a second for that Amendment I'll second it okay all right then I believe we actually need to vote on that Amendment um uh discuss yeah we can certainly discuss it first um so how much how much it's under 100,000 change how what is the decrease then it's like 60 or 70,000 probably right we have we have to we have to put a particular number here is the amendment just to 5.7 million versus split split the difference between like I'll calculate the number okay need to do that joke Sharon well I mean the other the other thing is if if it's going to get voted down then I don't want to waste your time that's the other aspect of it it was I think one of the select the point of information did we uh decide on 4% last year what was the number we we're already like sending the message that we're you know trying to okay thanks which only took only required 4.26 million to do 4% operating last year yeah that's that's everything's $2 million higher it's it's we're getting yes oh all right so $8,000 difference if you want to know the exact number so so yeah if if um School Town split that 8,000 is like well be split between town schools right but I mean how much do that how much less what is the 60% supposed to oh like 60 two 13 23 $52,000 reduction he just said 52,000 52 for the schools which yeah you think about it that's it's like a par with Benefits it's multiple yeah it's probably multiple Paras two Paras there abouts all right so yeah so so guess the the uh the amendment to consideration would be to change the amount to 5.72 uh million so so further discussion of that all right seeing none uh we're doing a vote um uh so we are voting on the amendment to change the this to 5.72 5. uh Emily yes uh Jeffrey no Ed no uh Joe yes uh John no um I should have been counting I have not not I apologize I should also keep track of who though so that was Emily uh yes Jeffrey no headed no Joe yes uh yes John no okay uh Maran no no uh Mark no no and Joe no so that uh did not pass that was uh eight yeah six to six to there was two two in favor six against so um all right so we're back to considering uh usage of 5.8 million seriously though thank you for proposing alternative I actually kind of like the part where we had that discussion but I think it I think um Miss Eric brought up a good point that we are sending a message from going from 4 to 3 and A2 y cuz I do remember it felt high that last year yeah I me it was and there were a lot of ads though there were a lot of positions added I think and it was the first year of new contracts is what the other real thing that was like really hard to move all right I don't see any further discussion on the 5.8 uh uh motion so let's go ahead and vote on that one um again we're voting on recommending a usage of $5.8 million of free cash to support the FY 26 uh Emily yes Jeffrey yes Ed yes uh Joe M I'll come back yes johnan yes Mark yes and Joe Gahan yes so that pass 8 Z thanks Joe so you have your recommendation no it's that's this is it was a good effort Joe de democracy at work man this is this is good stuff actually I like it all right um in that case let me flip back to agenda and we are now moving on to the town meeting warrant are we going to do the the floor seeing as we have some people here to talk about it that we could we could take them out of order sure I'm fine with that I mean I guess I'm proposing that or moving for that yeah it's not uh we're not quite as organized as town meeting to have like articles that be taken out of order or whatever we can just do it um I don't are there people here to talk about other articles on the warrant other than the floor no not really um Haven Street I think we're going to indefinitely postpone there may be a little bit of discussion on that but um Andrew may join us later on that Chris may be joining us on that but I think we can take the the floor out of order yeah just because I don't people here I think that's a good idea so let's let's um hear about uh Article 15 of the subsequent doming warrant which I think I think it was like the new presentation was around page 40 in the packet the new packet something did you want Jackie Jo Huggins can speak yeah Jo H superintendent great if you want us to stay back here you want us to stand somewhere I know what's better for this zo if you can stand in the hall maybe you go near Sharon if you come on up come on come on up next to stay away from me so you don't get my cold it's convenient that I'm at the end of the table just sit right in front of Joe I think Jo that's Joe likes to be up in front sure right no I don't uh I can't speak for the folks on the zoom but I'm assuming these microphones are not just for show and probably also be closer it is helpful that they're at the table good thank you for confirming that the new packet they sent out this afternoon not the one on the website what page I thought 40 I think I might 40 or 58 you might have the old one more I think Jackie sent out a packet this afternoon the website does the website packet needs to be updated to this it's page 40 so it's inserted before um before the uh steering committee stuff so near the end right before the end all right in today's this afternoon email all right I don't we have it there so let's uh please take it away jump in all right well good evening everyone nice to see you uh thanks for having us tonight so obviously joined by uh with Joe Huggins here as well and also we have Rob Belin from FJ Robert uh Sports Service as well president of the company who's here to answer any of the technical questions that we will probably get into around the various Services too so thanks for joining us Rob appreciate you uh taking your time on night to be with us also like to say up front too that this presentation you're seeing tonight was not shared with select board last week as they discussed uh this article voted on this article uh so that's something that we you know will present actually at select board We Believe next week so they'll have sort of so you may have you have context tonight that they didn't have as they sort of made their decision and on that as well it's always better to start with Finance Comm we figured we start so are they just rev voting their recommendation not reopening the war and closing it of that okay correct um all right so we can go next slide so I think going back to uh a little bit about the project uh just want to make sure everyone knows that last you know in April town meeting when debt uh debt was authorized 1.7 million we did say that if we as we explored other options we felt this with the a better option that we would come back and have that discussion with town meia again the fall too um so next slide uh I want to kind of context before we dump into the whole project you know kind of what we're recommending wanted to just emphasize for us what is just the scope of usage at the high school in the Fieldhouse you know field house as you know you see all this year uh both days 88 to 8:00 a.m. to 9:30 p.m. uh High School uh students in there throughout PE classes throughout the day then that transitions to after school athletics you know you know several sports teams using them daily but also Al many you know not inclement weather every team's using the field floor and then on many days also that number gets up to hundreds of you know community members using the field Hub uh particularly the Center Court um you see here talking about reading wck basketball gym Sol an estimates between 500 600 players during a PE January basketball day as well too um so as we're thinking about sort of you know which floor just want to contextualize that we're talking about pretty high usage uh and wanted to make sure that obviously tonight we're talking about a surface that is durable uh and also provides as safe experience as possible for for our community for our down so as we go on to go next slide Joe's gonna kind of walk us through you know where we've been with the project the different options we've explored the cost of each and kind of why there's a significant difference between the cost and then I'm going to walk through uh each kind of the pros and cons of each of the two models that we're going to be putting in front right now which is phone back vinyl and wood athletic and then we'll turn over to questions from anyone and I'm sure you guys can uh pepper Rob with some questions Technic questions floor surfaces Joe all right thanks Tom so originally when we had to ask uh for 1.7 million it was to replace the Fieldhouse floor uh in kind with basically a newer system but the same type of material the Center Court being foam backed um vinyl for the Center Court and then vulcanized a vulcanized rubber track and then also new bleachers the the bleachers that are in there are original to the facility um so they're 50 something years old um so and they're not handicap accessible so at 88 accessible so that would be part of that original $1.7 million um price tag that it carried so as we mentioned at last April Tom meeting we were looking at other options and we did look at um well I'm only going to touch a little bit on one of them is a a wood athlet Center surface uh on the floor um and then another system called lumaflex which is a synthetic material over wood that would it reacts the same pretty much the same not as good as the wood athletic flooring system so as we were going through it um because of the way the uh Fieldhouse is set up in order to put a um Maple floor or a synthetic floor in there the the whole Center cord of the the whole Center Court would have to be in fact cut out and depressed down at least a minimum of one to two feet get down to acceptable soil that'd be a structural engineer involved and that's this is where the price comes in to get that because we want it to be level with the track surface okay we looked at another option which was kind of crazy but we said all right instead of doing that let's look at doing transitions to all the doors meaning we' build the court up and build the TR track up on top of the floor but if you've been in the Fieldhouse there's 18 doors out there and that would mean we'd have to have transitions going down to every doorway which would impede the kids running on the track and crossplay and all that so that went out the window so with that wood is a more expensive material and Rob can speak to why there's differences between wood in the inine surface um depressing the uh Center Court does ADD quite a bit of scope and money hundreds of thousands of dollars to do that okay um and also the bleachers themselves carry a big price tag which was worked into the first um the first scenario we went away from the lumaflex system to Maple oddwood flooring because we were trying to find um a system that made it with the vulcanized rubber and we wanted to see it we weren't able to find the synthetic lumaflex system where it made it to the flooring because the the maple does move a little bit but we couldn't get a detail on that and we didn't want to be basically guinea pigs with the first ones doing it so but we did see the uh Maple flooring system made it to a um uh a vulcanized rubber system and also the it's important to mention that the the vulcanized rubber surface that's out there right now is like 3 mm stick the new system is like nine so we would be getting a better track surface if you will so um we um I don't know how far you want me to get into so so just so I'm clear so like this this isn't one or two it's you're doing one and two like one is one is we replace it in kind with what's there right now with just a higher quality version of what's there right now everything so that's everything but the Center Court it's including the Center Court we use a newer version of the foam back vinyl that's more it's more resilient it reacts better than what we have now that's option one okay option two would be the wood athletic center okay sorry okay yeah so it's it's one or two oh just okay all right yeah so sorry I was a little confused you know and it would mean us taking the Fieldhouse offline you said June right June July August into roll into September a little bit depending on um just how long it takes us to do you know there's going to be a cure time for the concrete we just can't when we drop the slab down we have to wait 28 days before we can you know move move again again that adds scope and it adds time so there's a number of factors that are built in there so can I just jump in real quick yep so I I I think one of the things that and maybe this is well understood but the system that is currently there right now both the Center Court and then the the vulcanized rubber are the same height same thickness right so they match up they they match up well what you're looking at right now are only options that would go in the center Court um the so so the foam back vinyl would would pretty much you know match up with the vulcanized rubber that is not being discussed here right now um that is going to go around the cor so the foam back vinyl would be the same cutting um so you wouldn't have to to cut down into of the concrete the wood athletic is going to be a thicker system because you have to build a subfloor and you have to so with the wood athletic the the cost increase mean wood itself is is is you know more expensive than than a phb back vinyl but you also have that extra that extra excavation associated with the wood athletic option number two great so we're going to walk through if you go next slide Jackie we're going to start to walk through a little bit of just you know why are we recommending the surface that is the uh sort of the more expensive surface in the wood flooring and I apologize somehow it's looks okay I think in the packet got uh messed up here but I'll walk you through so I think you'll see tonight we're going to break it down into three factors that we think relate to safety factors that favor the wood floor and then three other factors quality factors we call them that are play um I'd like to take a step back as before get on the safety piece and just share you know for us I've had a lot of question question the last couple of years of you know is the current floor unsafe I think is say I will share that we have had uh you know injuries on the floor um can I share that those injuries are exact you know result of the floor that we have I I mean I can't make that c for sure um what we can say is we know that the floor that we have now uh is not as safe as the floors that we will be installing and I also can share this we feel and I think Rob would agree a significant difference between the safety of the wood floor and the vinyl floor given the high level of usage of the floor by many of our community members by many of our student athletes I of course have to advocate for us investing what we feel is safest for our student athletes and unfortunately many people in this room can put a face to the you know to the numbers you may hear of injuries that we've had in the you know on the current surface so um I just wanted to emphasize again this is there's a lot of factors at play but for me it's most important the student the safety of our student athletes our athletes our community members and ensuring that when they are in the Fieldhouse we can uh give them the best chance of remaining as safe as possible during their playing experience too um so if you go through there's three factors I I'll quickly give a high level on each and I'll let Rob kind of go in a little bit more the technical so you can go next slide um Jackie first safety Factor you'll see that and Rob's helped us to put this together along with sort of we did our own research on this obviously and then Rob has helped guide us through this um first is around shock absorption you can see that different sort of categories up top by phone back vinyl and wood athletic with the ideal percentage of being like 50% absorbed you can see phone back vinyl sitting at 22 to 33% which is considered good uh but very good for the wood athletic which is more than 46% absorbed uh Rob's been very I think is emphasized to us the impact of this of being close to the 50% is is is to be able to lessen the impact of the potential of uh overuse injuries shock absorption isn't always necessarily related to the uh catastrophic knee injuries other injuries but again for a lot of our students who are having wear and tear issues overuse injuries having a surface that has the higher percentage of shock absorption is the way for us to be able to support them and ensure a safer experience Rob anything you want to share on shock absorption yeah no that's that's uh right on Chuck absorption is more of a long-term issue um so you're mitigating the likelihood of of sort of nagging overuse injuries over the the length of of time that the surface is being used we can go next slide second uh criteria that we had looked at and we can answer questions after two is is energy returned uh you see kind of highlight at the bottom is it's important to have balance between the ability to absorb shock and also return the energy constructively in terms of that that ensuring a a safe surface um he Rob and others have categorized generally the foam back vinyl sort of okay in this category versus wood athletic which is they think you know kind of very good in this category I don't know Rob if you can share a little bit about why maybe that falls in one versus the other yeah I mean as as of we've discussed a little bit energy return um is often times focused on basketball and how well the basketball returns upon you so um you know there there's there certain as as TM requirement um whereby a basketball needs to bounce at least 90% of what it would bounce if you were banging it on more of a concrete surface so energy return in that respect a Pham bag vinyl full softer return um the other side of energy return though is is really how long you can you can use the athletic surface or in this case of sand for example you when you run on the beach you get really good shock absorption from running on Sand but you're getting no energy return and so that's why it's you know when you run on the beach versus running on asphalt it's much harder running on the beach longer so you know this is where we kind of this is where we go with energy return you want something that's going to balance shock absorption but also at the same time return so wood athletic is is is is is a definitely an ideal surface in that respect Jack you go next slide then we'll shift to sort of the last factor of safety Factor the elasticity and I think this is the one that I've heard the most about in like my own research on this conversation with Rob and and talking to our athletic coaches I think we've heard a lot about the catastrophic knee injuries and I think that the research shows that the factor that's most associated or most important in terms of you determining risk for catastrophic injury is looking at elasticity and you know surfaces kind of on a spectrum of point to area um uh you know uh elasticity and you'll see here up in the kind of how it's written is that area elastic floors would are sort of preferred for for pivot sports so basketball and volleyball uh where that's not necessarily as important for track and field uh Rob and others have emphasized that ensuring they you know a uh a point uh an athletic surface uh an area athletic an area surface is most important for basketball and volleyball and the risk if we're not doing that and where you know student athletes are participating more on a point floor then that's something that would increase the risk of the catastroph knee injuries other injuries and unfortunately we do know we've had several of those in the last couple of years too and those are the sort of the horror stories so I think for me I'm obviously worried about the overuse piece and injuries but I am extremely worried about the trajectory changing injuries for student athletes and for community members when we land in one of these buckets too Rob I don't know if there's anything you want to share just about no this is that's exactly right um this is in my opinion relative to you don't get this is what you are looking at and a a point toasting surface I would say you know foam back vinyl is not extremely Point elastic um whereas like say a urethane is urethane you know you you you jump on it and and your foot goes down the surface goes down only where you impact um the urethane surface foam back vinyl spreads it out a little bit but is definitely much more of a point elastic system than is a wood athletic Floor Wood athletic floor as you can imagine you know wood is is not really depressing the sub floor under the wood is what is is what it's is what is is um uh lowering upon impact and so the foot you know doesn't get stuck in the surface the depression happens over you know numerous feet and certainly not where the foot impacts the the maple or you know the hard wood so wood athletic is is is like your classic area elastic service and I'll just add in conversations with the you know varsity basketball and volleyball coach of the high school they've said that the the injuries that they have seen in the last couple years that does they use the word like stuck it feels like their knee gets stuck ANS and all that all that exactly um so you can go next slide so I I I think you know again the primary factor for us in recommending the wood is the safety but I wanted to quickly touch on just a couple of other factors as well uh one durability for Rolling loads uh sort of the foam back vinyl uh not being as strong to be able to handle um you know on non-athletic requirements where heavy lifts may be needed on the Fieldhouse floor uh where the wood athletic would be stronger uh we do know there is some you know one of the downsides of wood is you can be scratch up in a little bit ways too on some of the the other activities so I think just oversight of how the floor is used with a wood surface would be really important um but again for the rolling for the kind of the strong for the heavier rolling loads you the wood surface holds up a little bit better um Rob feel free to jump in before I go next slide or if that's yeah know that's that's that's right on I mean you know you still have to protect a wood floor as you would any any surface but if if you're going to if there are going to be rolling loads on a surface um rather consistently then your Pham back vinyl is certainly not the way to go we we we do things like um you know uh we'll use a bleacher block for example where the foam back vinyl um if if you're using a foam back vinyl surface we use a bleacher block which is a to a completely different surface where the bleachers will be coming in and out um I don't think you have that um effect here because I don't think you're well Le reach your middle court but other rolling loads such as lifts and and things like that I mean that that will impact a a vinyl surface uh more negatively than a wood surface Jackie you can go next slide um I think this one was has been really interesting in addition to the safety another factor I think is most important is the durability how long floor is going to last uh Rob's you know guidance is sort of aligned to what we found in research is that you know maintenance of a Quality Maintenance of a wood athletic floor floor should last around shelf life around 50 years versus a Pham back V of around 20 years it's interesting though and I think one of the drawbacks you would say of the wood and you know is that it does require more sort of annual maintenance right to be able to make sure it's going to last the 50 years like you have to put the work in for it to be able to last uh what it should but at the same time if you take care of the surface it's one that the community can expect is going to be uh you know up and running for a significant period of time I do also think it's important that something you know we've talked about is that a downside of the wood athletic is you know having to make sure that you know catastrophic uh water damage would be more impactful for sort of a wood surface than it would necessarily for a foam back vinyl uh similarly like a uh humidity or other conditions like air conditions it's really important that those are addressed or mitigated as effectively as possible because those can affect a wood surface more than necess a foam backed vinyl surface um but I from you know conversations with many in the field we could feel comfortable if we take good care of the floor if you look at how our facilities team takes care of all the buildings I have you know every reason to believe that things would be kept in you know tip top shape uh that this floor is something that would last in the community uh for a significant period of time so you mentioned the the bleachers are were original for 50 years is the is the floor that's there now has that been replaced in the 50 years yeah it was replaced during the renovation 2005 okay sorry y it lasted about 20 25 years each time okay can I ask are we maintaining any wood floors in any other schools right now like I'm trying to remember Parker I think it has a wood floor Parker wood end coolage barrows so you can so we're successfully doing that and you and you can project excuse me we know what it cost and what it takes to maintain it okay yep and we generally do them every summer some we do every other but the ones that get the heavy play you know they get done more frequently so Jo what about like Birch meow is that foam like cuz that's pretty beat up right I know how old Birch meow is um that's rolled sheat Goods in there it's like a synthetic yeah it's a vinyl surface yeah okay so and that's not even like a that's not a facility that we rent out either that's just it's a very small gym over there at birie and did you say you needed does does a Fieldhouse have air conditioning would like how how would we do we do have h a large air equipment in there to keep the air moving in there and one of the things that's mention here is um what we would do which was not done during the project I I didn't get here till after the floor was down but we're going to when we take the old flooring system out completely we're going to repair the floor and we're going to do um motion mitigation we're going to water waterproof the whole entire floor okay no I was just thinking like Sumer humidity GL failed that's why the glue has failed and the floor is given us problems in certain areas I don't think itd ever really completely dried so so that concern of humidity is is is very real um and the you know the the best way to mitigate humidity is to keep air moving during humid time so that it doesn't settle in on the floor um you don't necessarily have to have an hbac system but you just have to be able to move move the air in the space that is a lot of wood uh I think you're about 7500 sare ft which is you know pretty much average but for a gymnasium um but you do want to keep that from spiking during the humid times of the year also the manner in which the surface is installed is important um the wood has to be acclimated to what the conditions will be uh on average and then the installer needs to understand what the potential risk you know how how high might this wood get in moisture in say July and August and then they have to build that additional expansion space into the floor but as long as those you know those issues are handled you won't have any issues with and I asked Rob to that we was this a you know a bigger concern for us given that we're in a Fieldhouse and Rob said share that he has installed install you know plenty of wood floors and field houses and there given you know if you use the strategy just you discussed that we' be in a good position um last slide for us is uh question longevity that we'd expect on the other surface that would be around the basketball court question oh the track R well it's not going to get the same maybe I mean it's going to get people running on it but it's not I don't know Rob do you hear that question yeah we we basically call synthetic surfaces which is which are non-wood surfaces at 20year floors but you can get a 30y year we have we have a 30-year we have a 40-year vulcanized rubber surfaces that's a I believe that you're you're interested in getting a vulcanized rubber running track surface um we work with Mondo a company um from Italy U they produce the Olympic running track um you know we have 40-year tracks in there uh it really it's it just matters you know how how dir get you know how well it's maintained but um vulcanized rubber which is what you're considering in your running track area is extremely durable um the wood uh the reason why you're at and folks I have a speech impediment and uh when I'm in a room uh seeing everybody it's it's usually not as Extreme as it as it has been right now so I just wanted to let you guys just want to let you know that um the reason why 50 years is used is because the mfma the the maple floring manufacturers Association they recommend that once every 10 years you sand and refinish your wood your wood surface um once you get near the tongue um then they say okay you can't use wood FL anymore it would take about five stands for you to get down near your uh tongue now most of my clients will not sand their wood floors every 10 years um it's generally you know 15 years some 20 years some will never stand in wood floors I don't I don't recommend that cuz then you get the urane buil up um and it just it ruins the experience but 50 years again it's it's it's on the the lower side if you maintain the floor properly there's really no reason why your wood floor is not going to last 70 80 years you know as long as a building that so if the wood floor is going to last 70 or 80 years and the the rest of the floor is maybe 20 or 40 are there potential issues with tearing up part of the floor like no because your woodor will be in the center and everything else will be around it so you wouldn't be you know be injuring the wood floor while you're while you're ad demoing the the stuff around it is that a common repair where someone's got this wood floor that's kicking you know going on and on and we have to replace the track around it is that yeah yeah no we we will yeah we Newton High uh Newton Newton sou we did it um yeah that's that's very common I mean we have to have like different covering now like for graduation collections that type of thing to protect the FL yeah we're going to be as part of the project we're going to have them spec out um some they used at Essex Tech I think they have covers for their floor over there um which are big rolls that go down to cover everything up we don't currently cover for elections do we cuz I I was like just looking up pictures of the Field House Flo to familiarize myself and I see these pictures of the voting machines right on the basketball court yeah not for the elections but we do it for like robotics um yeah cuz that's a lot of heavy rolling stuff my I'm never going to see it oh I think yeah we have a m the audience I saw a hand from Karen sure um thank you I appreciate this since the select board hasn't seen this yet um so I just want to ask a a really basic question is our is our Field House obs are we are are we reasonably comfortable that it's worth it installing a system that's going to last 50 years we're not going to to replace it in 10 I think it works well for the community I don't see any problems with the the facility itself I mean not at all and then I had a question um so so it is I understand used by um for-profit organizations and there's maintenance and these other accessories that you need to buy it so is the plan to or do is there already in place a process where the revenue that's generated goes to support the facilities and replacement up of the field I mean so we actually we adjusted our rates last year too um we haven't discussed to this year you know if we with the field housee project we would need to change our rates around a little bit to support higher levels of Maintenance I would anticipate that for the for-profit that's probably something I would assume that we would probably be doing uh I think last year we when we increased rates that was the spot that we went out most significantly was our out of town for profit groups um I don't Joe if you have anything else no that's pretty much it but the money does go into a revolving fund and it gets there support perties in in our budget every year coming from that revolving fund yeah we just have last uh just a last slide too um I think it's you know again the I don't think this is the most important factor at all but I think it's a it's important benefit I think that we are I think a community that really values our facilities and I think that really takes pride in our facilities and uh what we know both for our schools and for our community and I think that we see here that there's 10 of 11 middle sex League high schools that have wood surfaces we think that this is uh the norm for high school communities of our similar size and competition level uh and for I think that that's reasonable for us is a it's a nice benefit if we're investing in the safety and durability that we are also then we think putting on a product that we think matches what we aspire to be and we think we are in terms of the program we offered for our community um and the last slide just outlines I think just the headline which I think everyone's aware of which is the kind of the total project cost for the foam back vinyl and for the wood athletic and I'll note that in the uh town meeting warrant article uh you'll see that it has actually the lumaflex option in there but as we discussed tonight that's not something that we are considering at this point too so we'll pause we'll finish up there for any questions or thoughts so if you'd LED with it cost twice as much and lost lasts two and a half times as long it would have been different compensation the other night I think yeah that's I was just going to say it would have been a no-brainer for them that you know who knows what this would cost if we decide and oh with the next maintenance go around let's go for wood is it going to be $8 million with the way inflation is going this doesn't seem like an extremely high ad for what we're getting out of it I think that's the Practical side on the the money side and I totally agree with that I also my mind goes to also just the safety piece of course right safy thing is driving argument for yeah it's that's that's that's Paramount it gets so much use from every aged kid too from very young all the way through you know uh through high school so um you know you you it's it's the you kind of Marquee thing that that Marquee Court that's used and were we doing in were we doing indoor pickle ball on weekends on it too for the older older people who notm not on the wood service no not in the wood okay I didn't know if that would impact them too if you say that this is exactly say that yeah maybe maybe that yes i' never heard of that that uh rubber surface actually is very good with the pick We There we go don't don't tell them that to shut up Rob it comes with painted pickle ball lines on the vulcanized rubber I just wanted to point out that in the um Capital plan and the debt plan it is in there at $3 million so if it were to go the other way we would just go towards more Capital so okay so the numbers that you've seen already included at 3 million but this this wouldn't um yeah question of question for you would be approving this article would that require uh uh you know the next article 3 when we update the capital plan for there to be a um you know sub significant changes and it sounds like no you know what it might it may have uh we had it in the capital plan already and it was approved at 1.7 and if you recall we had to approve the debt authorization that night because we were moving money from Parker roof and bond Council said you can't do that unless you have authorization already approved so we went with the lower amount the the most affordable floor and and and mentioned that we could be coming back for an additional authorization depending on what option would be picked so saying the the full 3 million was in the capital plan but the debt was only authorized up well it was at 1.7 and I increased it to three but now that you say that I should have increased it here and I didn't so it's a good mention I didn't increase it here so it definitely is going to be an add to so it will be an impact on article three because it would increase it by $1.3 million yeah so the 3 million doesn't cover the temporary service though right the temporary surface that we need to put on or does it we would need that for any floor right oh to cover the floor to protect it the Floor Covering yeah we I think we have enough built in there with um contingency to take care of that we do we have any idea like on the main like it's going to be more or less the same as the other floors would doing in town okay so you'd use the same stuff in bulk like just by extra floor polish outside contract to come in and do it would we get a better rate with more square footage of floor yeah I mean we're already doing five or six of them every year anyway so to add another one it would not I don't think it would be a great savings but okay um they spend about a week in the district doing them so should we not be playing pball in any wood floors or what damage you you you can play on on wub wood fors that's fine I can play on what I said Wu wood force it sounded like everybody Birch has W wood floor but it also I'm not aware of anybody doing indoor pickles all in the schools right now I I was you were okay yeah don't you please oh yeah to answer your question where the issue that affects Joe is when they put down the tape to put the lines down when they pull up they put like tape down it does pull up was it a varnish the Finish to finish and that that's the one aspect of it um if you don't mind is um I've coached basketball in high school for 30 years and and I think everyone here is a parent the past three years are on the varc kids are obviously bigger faster stronger than like a gym class we've had our best players um no one's even there they go up for a rebound no one's there the knee snap and when you're seeing 17-year-old boys and girls girls it's actually worse because a lot of them play volleyball so they get like six months of the H service the run and seeing girls knowing they're going to be scarred for life I mean boys don't they don't really care about that aspect of it but um you know the girls are like I'm gonna have a scar the rest of my life a sexist com well most Boys Don't shade their legs so that that's that aspect of it still let's look at let's go for the he has good intent here don't Focus onbody moving right along any moving right along the fact of the matter is is that it's one you know the boys are down the worst noises I've ever heard was actually seeing a boy boy on the ground screaming on buddy murder but when the mother came in the gym to get him knowing the kid has spent 12 years and was ready able to lose his athletic scholarship which ended up happening because he's he's damaged that um it's it's so unnecessary I mean when Towns come into to play us they're always like we got out of here without any injuries um I mean it's just the way it is there's no give right now on that at all again like that's less the shock absorption and it's more the elasticity of the floor whether it's a a a point elastic floor or an area when you go up for a rebound and you're you're heavy person a heavy athlete and you come down and you and you plant on a point elastic system your weight drives your foot into that surface and it the surface you know wraps around your foot and then you rotate because you're going to go on a fast break and sometimes your foot doesn't release and and and that's that's why we call that sort of a catastrophic in um injury um attribute whereas shock absorption yeah over time your back's going to start to hurt your knees are going to start to hurt your ankles are going to start to hurt but you're not going to you know hopefully ruin your your career or um your scholarship so um so did we get an answer about pickall at would end like is it bad aside from the tape issue are there should we not be doing no you we have a pickle ball cords that are on wood the tape issue is real yeah um we try not they have a game line of tapes that you they say you can use on wood floors but they just don't they don't work they they leave they either leave residue or they actually rip up some of the of the varnish depending upon how how how cured the varnish is I me when when you screen and recode a floor that that that that uh varnish of the Finish rather it really hasn't de cured for a long time I you can still get on it and use it but it's still curing so depending upon when you put the tape down and you pull it up um they have this there's a manufacturer called gym marks and it's actually a marker that you put on your floor your wood floors and it doesn't wash off or Mudge off but they sell this eraser and the Eraser will take it off so that's something that you know if you absolutely wanted to put a temporary lines on a wood floor um I would recommend that system will be using a tape but ideally you know um you're not really putting anything on on the wood floor the rubber floor does work extremely well with with uh pickle ball uh it it uh holds the ball very well like with with tennis you know you want the ball to be able to bite into the surface wood floors are very so smooth obviously so the pickle ball doesn't uh bite very well so it's not a wonderful experience you can definitely do it but if if I were you folks I I I jump over onto the rubber surface that's going to be right next to it that's the one that if you were going to put any lines down for pickle ball um I would put them on that surface can I comment on can I comment on coolage and um wood end please sure go ahead coolage of wood end it's not ideal but we use rubber lines that we bring and take home with us so there's no tape um I've been playing in those gyms for 2 years and I've never seen them taped the rubber lines you know if you step on they might move we just move them back but we measure out the quarts we put the Nets we assemble the Nets and we use this thin rubber line so at least that in would end there is no taping of quarts going on sounds like a good compromise some must have invented to help Pi ball sorry what was that what was the question wait uh anyway all right please yeah um for statey urement would they distinguish like between wood and fo back like if this is being done as a school project might be a town meeting question like that might come up you know part of msba yeah yeah exactly so some people AR they putting aren they putting a gym in Kellum and is kum's gym having a wood floor or have you decided that yet I don't think they go that far yet I'm sure we'll learn through that process whether or not I would I mean again I all of the new msba the bills throughout be seen have all been wood floors but does that mean that that's something that the community has had to pay extra for I don't know or that's something been reimbursable I assumed it was reimbursable L knows that the reimb the size is the 6,000 ft I know is reimbursable um maybe Rob knows I don't know that's a good question the regulation Flor 6,000 6,000 yeah I'm I'm actually not sure about that but but I will say that you know middle schools and elementary schools where the you know the average user is is not as heavy as as high school um using a synthetic surface is sort of a safe for option because you don't have as much of force being driven into the surface um you know so but but as you get into high school and certainly at college and and other Pros where you have a lot of you know heavier heavier users that's where your area elastic surfaces become much more beneficial I'm not sure about reimbursement due to safety is I don't don't don't know that world I'll find that out for yeah it's much time meeting ask question I'm going to interrupt myself with sort of a point of of order or really just a question for Jackie for minut take we didn't have a um because Jackie's remote we didn't have a sign up thing here to name Carl was introducing himself um uh do we have a notebook that we could use for that so we have that for the I can write it down somewhere you mean in terms of who was visiting who who was who was I Jackie I assume you want me to write you want me to write it down so we have usually sign in sheets on the cork board oh oh okay we can one of those that would be great I don't want to I don't Jackie I I appreciate your help and therefore I don't want to make your job Harder by having to guess who was here and don't use my pen so you'll have to borrow a pen from someone great cool so yeah we can pass that around in the background and get that taken care of all right back on topic ask one question and and and if this needs to be tabled for the warrant discussion um when we get to that when we get to this into the warrant do we talk about the funding options and so forth that we need to do for that or is that something that we can discuss so with the article I think we are looking to borrow all of it but that's something we could amend and we haven't borrowed but we didn't borrow the 1.7 no no gotta okay we only did that authorization that night because we had to we knew that there were options that were entertaining but we needed to do a dead off ation that night to to move money from Parker Road and and and did that allow us did we need that in order to kind of kick off the project to be able to get you know kind of to scope out I think it was for design yeah the money we have now is for the design War perfect okay that's that's that's what I thought okay thanks thanks I was going to ask a question earlier in your presentation about whether because of the digging down and that's a most extra cost like oh well this won't wouldn't be we have to replace it again it wouldn't be so bad but then you got to the part where we didn't replace it again for a very long my um I'm happy that question this seems M um or at least considerably less we don't have to sign in I think it's just uh yeah that's just for for non May other attendees probably yeah other attendees all right um so we took this out of order but where we're eventually going with this is um voting on um do you want to vote on it while they're here uh can we vote the Warren articles out of order I don't know I don't see why not think you could yeah I don't see why you so which article was this no I don't CL I closed my presentation so and so we're looking for a debt authorization of so we just going to recommend or not recommend this then in our correct and so article yes so for and then we determine who presents it exactly we get to do that whole thing we can do that later yes that's that's fine um but I figure we I I just thought it would make sense to vote on this one immedately after discussing it not that I think it changed their mind well we're not even recommending an amount we're just recommending the article right also true um although it seems like it says mil no no F think about you know some of these uh warrant articles is that uh like it has to say that it's a borrowing for instance supposed to for cash but it doesn't have to say the amount um I don't think it doesn't say it doesn't say the am it should say um the background says that we authorized the 1.7 and then the background does not say three somewhere in here it says you know that the cost of we can change the background we haven't printed it yet yeah we haven't printed it the war article has to stay and we keep it per um purposely vague yes so you can include but the background we will go to print probably tomorrow after your oh you know what I think I probably would have added it in like the top C so probably got eliminated it was up here the addition yeah no not the background but I you know up at the top where is to raise an appropriate borrow I might have put the number there and it looks like somebody probably updated it and took it out so yeah it should be in the background I'll include in the background well if we if we can so the background would include the 3 million 1.7 plus yeah I would just explain that the that that we're asking for an additional authorization of 1.3 to bring that total to 3 million right so to meeting because it's dead does that need to there it's approval I believe six um is yes although the way the article is worded someone could propose an amendment to you know could am met the motion to use free cash instead and that would be within the scope of the article so and town meeting could sit there and amend the amount too though that makes no sense to me but right but it could we have project if right yes we have we have sometimes had productive discussions about whether something should be borrowed or not um all right um do we have further discussion on this warrant article or should we go ahead and vote on thom's recommendation all right who wants to do all the moving um look at move move to recommend the contents of our Article 15 to town meeting thank you miss the word from there second can can we just say that um as as amended as amended as propos as amended yes yeah as amended during the meeting to include the dollar mil include the dollar mil okay that's fair I mean I think it's it's um that might even be unnecessary because strictly speaking I think we're not asked to vote on the background but on the article um but absolutely it should be in the I want it to be in the background so I mean I think that the um whoever gives this report doesn't need to say at their meeting we voted to recommend this article with like we just say V we voted to a supporter yes that that that discharges our respons you know it's our responsibility to make recommendations on articles so all right uh so thank you em for the motion thank you Joe for the second uh any further discussion all right let's vote uh Emily you Jeffrey yes Ed yes Joe yes John yes Maran yes Mark yes and Joan yes 8 Z let me make a note of that because I need to remember these counts all right and we said we'll we'll do the divvying up of who reports which ones later um all right are there any others that we should take out of order we go back to the beginning should we give people only only here floor chance to run away very fascinating thank you sit through a really long free cash discussion for giving that presentation sausage is made as they say we have we have Public Safety here is there an article that is particularly per to Public Safety folks I think probably the first the first few articles when we're talking about Capital Improvement budget there are some Public Safety and also it is here so we could essentially start from the top get from the top that I think yeah all right so we can start with article three exactly go ahead and this is the this is just generally the update to the capital Improvement program so we have it up there I actually have to amend it oh yeah so as you pointed out they add for the 1.3 million did not get added to the capital it got added to the actual spreadsheet but not here and it needs to be approved by town meeting so this number becomes 2 mil 52 2, 52,000 so um so just keep a note of that you want me to give the background of what's going on here so when we had April town meeting um for fiscal 25 we had debt payments car signing off I don't know select and I don't see Chris is still here Carlo car has already signed off and I don't know if any other select board members were on the call Melissa also I missed when Melissa signed off sign off ised just to let you know get to use that phrase night 84 I can just link out exactly you no longer have to announce your your leaving ter all right okay I failed to properly adour CP committee the other night myself so I'm not you keep going Shar so when we um approved the fiscal 25 budget in that um debt plan was a debt payment for Birch meow Phase 2 and the Haven Street project or the downtown project that $4 million borrowing last minute that was in the warrant book for April it got pulled so we didn't end up doing any borrowing we were expecting to borrow in June or July and have a debt payment in fiscal 25 that didn't happen so we have this extra money in fiscal 25 for debt payments that we're not going to be using so we do 5% debt and capital so I'm moving the debt payment to the capital side and doing as much Capital as I can so that's why you see these huge numbers here that says 752 but now with the 1.3 it's 2, 52,000 so what we had going on was um first off we had 85,000 for Bobcat for facilities and they had some Savings in fiscal 24 and they purchased it in fiscal 24 so I'm taking that off the capital plan for fiscal 25 and it gives us a little more Wile room um the police department has requested a parking enforcement vehicle that's a 2013 and so we added that 30,000 for a pickup truck it's a 2006 for Highway um a blower unit uh blower unit for the loader um so we reduced the price from 250 to 220 that's what we had it on the capital plan for and they have it um they encumbered at 220 so there's a savings there my God I must have misheard you we um we are finding that Paving is just not cutting it the amounts that we've been putting in we get about 600,000 for chapter 90 every year we try and get 4 or 500,000 into the budget the capital plan but the capital plan has been very tight we started off with a 425 we're increasing it to 845 um so the 600 has that been what it's been every year in the state so the state hasn't changed any pressure on the state do that there is was that conversation yeah change so I felt the best use was to try and grow a little bit more money since we have these debt payments that are not going to be used towards the paving um and also we're having some a lot of complaints about sidewalks and so added 100,000 because we usually only have 100,000 in our budget doesn't go very far so this adds another 100,000 there What's the total payment then with would it be with the so 600 plus it would be 845 845,000 plus 600,000 so we'd be looking at almost like 1.4 1.42 five something of that nature and and the roads are kind of in not the greatest shape so the more we have in any given year the better it's going to get so I felt like that was a good use of the the extra funding especially what we're trying to adhere to that 5% of our budget being debt and capital where the debts going down the capital has to go up um 32,000 for fencing um for a play area adjacent to Wood end this was something requested by the superintendent as a safety issue and so I I put it on immediately is that for the second play area not the there's already a fence around from what I understood that that that people come out of the Forest right where where this play I'm not really familiar with with player up adjacent to the left like the left of school which used to be like the little kids play area cuz that's not really a adjacent to Town Forest that's adjacent to the school the Town Forest is adjacent to the soccer field isn't it yeah corre this is the area that's like adjacent the wooded area that's but um like R Lane and okay so so it is the one further up not the one lower down so to make that play area more secure they wanted a fence there and so we had this um added for um fisal 25 at 32,000 um and then one of the projects that we were looking to borrow was the Birch metal Phase 2 but when Fidel asked for this money he didn't do it in the typical fashion usually we do design and then borrowing so that we have the cash to do the design and then once we have the design we do the borrowing um because he buried it into the one authorization I pulled it out so they could get that design work done so the project could potentially move soon so that's the 245 you see there can I just ask a quick question before we move on so when you say a parentheses 2013 like parking enforcement vehicle does that mean we're replacing a 2013 vehicle mm that's the year of the vehicle the year yeah well of the vehicle being replaced yeah that's the year of the vehicle being replaced no we're not buying no I understand because I I saw that with the driver's ed vehicle for the schools yeah so I try and give you the year of the vehicle so it kind of lends itself to how old is the vehicle that we're trying to replace and we have a parking enforcement officer to drive this vehicle yeah we did for a while but we do have a park yeah we've had so we've had Bridget for a while we had had um somebody um thank you Ron um we had forever he went out injured then Co hit and then nobody was really coming to work anything so we didn't hire and then we had this guy Ed for a bit and then now we have Bridget Bridget's been with us for about a year now she's out there every single day um the car like I said it's a 2013 she's driving around in it's gets driven around she just just doesn't do the downtown she hits parking space all over that was going to be my other question I mean not to go get into the whole parking enforcement thing and kiosks cuz that we don't even know where that's going but I just wanted to make sure we had an officer that was driving the car we do have an officer it's not a police officer it's a an enforcement officer Park enforcement officer yes but somebody is driving the car yeah somebody driving it's not just downtown they do hit like the school areas the um basketball courts they go to other areas in town that also do enforcement is she get a nice plugin I'm asking for an electric car because that was the um guidance I'd gotten from the town that if it wasn't an emergency vehic vle if it wasn't designated as an emergency vehicle um that I was to get um electric when I can efficient is there a charging station at the police station for electric vehicles we have um we do have one the station y okay Sharon a question on the Birch meal Phase 2 so does that mean this is going up to 2,245 so the the project was um debt authorized at 2.14 million and that included 140,00 000 I think it was for the rise playground I remember him saying something about the rise playground we put out the bid and it was too smaller job we didn't get any bids on it and so he wanted to roll it into the Birch Meadow um so without the design I don't even know if his estimate of what the project is going to be is accurate and it's also kind of further out so it could be more expensive so I just carved out the 245 for design just cuz without the design they don't really have a fixed number yet um but they do have an authorization at 2.14 million for that project if it's within that you're not going to hear anything they'll borrow for it and we will continue Park roof right huh ro oh I it I feel like things are costing more now I don't know I I would hope we par Parker roof was the gift that just kept on giving but anyway cuz we borrowed it at like 87 and we kept Distributing that money all over the place so um and then the 1.3 I missed that um for the field house floor and bleachers has to be added to this um first section to make that total instead of 752 2, 52,000 um and but of course that 1.3 we're asking for debt um then under fiscal 26 we have a net of $155,000 where the net changes um and this is just the balancing act that we we do to get to the five 5% because we we look at what we've got planned for Debt Service that 5% we calculate the 5% we deduct whatever we have planned for Debt Service and that end number ends up being the number we spend on Capital and sometimes with all these price changes things have to be moved around to make that balance and that's what you're seeing here I don't know if there's anything that's noteworthy except I do feel like with all the price increases you're seeing like a 10year asset we're waiting 12 13 years to replace it something that's 15 is getting 18 to 20 years so it's it's taking us longer than historically it usually has to replace these vehicles so um so that's the only thing I'll mention so we're pushing things out moving things in moving things out to make that balance happen for for the doors and windows there AR any like security issues with do any school other or they push no I mean back to like we we we sit down and we collaborate with all the department heads and um everything that I move around is is cleared by the department head that's requested it is this is is this a is this going to be problematic because if they come back to me and say this is problematic for me this is in bad shape I absolutely need it then I I res situate everything so there's a lot of revisions that happen because you sit with each department head and the town manager and other key players to help figure out what are the priorities what's in the worst shape and make sure that you know as those priorities change because we determine something's in worse shape than we thought sometimes those things have to be made a priority so when I move things around I send several revisions back out to the key players to say okay I've moved some of your stuff take a look is anything problematic where it landed um and so sometimes it takes a few rewrite to get there I'd say um so that's for fisal 26 a net change of 15,000 and then we just kind of note that there are various changes in fisical 27 but you can see them I kind of highlight them in green so if you're looking at the packet you can see everything I've move um forwards or backwards or in increases of price although when it got printed it doesn't show you that right hand column that I tried to show you before where it says exactly what I did I moved it out and increased it by $10,000 or whatever um but you know if you're interested in that version I certainly can send it so you can take a look sometimes it's very unsettling to see how much things go up from each to the next I find it quite shocking um and then under the water um for Enterprise funds there was a project that we identified was missing from the capital plan I think they thought they told me somebody missed it and this water main replacement was scheduled for fisal 25 but not actually on the capital plan so so what I ended up doing is adding it um and we're going to ask for certified Surplus for it cuz we do have pretty good reserves now for water and then again this other one was missing as well 600,000 I don't know how we missed both of these but um and that will be in fiscal 26 and then for sewer we have an increase of for an increase from 60 thou from 60,000 to 100,000 for a pickup Tru which I found to be out PES but it is what it is um and that's a $40,000 increase had the same reac you see how settle unsettling it is it's very upsetting um I don't know and and and and there really are coming in at some of these prices so I don't know how much of it's a little extra buffer for them to feel confident they're going to have enough money when the time comes to buy but um yeah so that's what we have there for sewer nothing else going on there that's a fiscal 26 change storm water um no changes um for fiscal 25 or 26 and some various changes made in the um later years going into article four that's where you'll see me moving money from the debt the 721 th000 to the capital so we're increasing the capital by 752 and but that but that'll be 252 2,52 right no well no because the 1.3 is debt this is actually looking to add money um gotcha okay so the 52 is the actual increase that we're actually asking for operating money for whereas the 1.3 we're asking for debt so will you denote that and when you when you do I was going to put 1.3 and put debt in parentheses debt authorization so that we know why I'm not asking for the full amount in article 4 so when you do fy2 you said at the Top Line it says you know plus 752 net changes will you will it say plus 2,52 net changes or would you have it denoted at the Top Line too like where it's involved that oh up here I'll probably put I'll probably put it up there and next to the actual listing of the floor okay so I put it in two places but in article four I probably won't mention the floor at all because we're not asking for yeah I just just to tie it out I just you because it's I have a feeling that that that'll be a question that I'm sure I'm sure um I'm looking at um a shortfall a little shortfall for the northeast regional Metro locational scho of $110,000 we need to ask for that the fincom reserve fund transfer we're looking to reimburse that if you recall we had a 2023 truck fory truck or something um that we had um a fire at the manufacturer and it had to um be you know placed in order somewhere else and it was much better plus I think we had some money that we'd asked for for another truck that had accidentally closed to free cash so that's how we got to that 135 so the other thing had going on I I think I mentioned s word I don't think I've mentioned it to you we have needs in the finance department um so for the last nine months we've had like a 19 like somebody working 19 hours a week to help us because ever since the budget kind of flowed to my department in its complete entirety we didn't add any real staff and it is kind of burdening a little the flow of the work I'm delegating them as much as best I can and trying to like move things around the department and get cost training going on but what my assistant department head is so bogged down that I haven't been able to sh the budget at all and she's supposed to be my backup so I I know that I'm kind of making us a little vulnerable so what I did was I asked the other um department heads that had some attrition and retirement savings if they would let me take that savings away from their Department to fund bringing this position to a full-time position so it's a net of $60,000 so you'll see that I'll have a nutrition savings or retirement savings throughout to fund that additional 60,000 going to the finance department just to get us a little bit more health because even when I I presented to the select board last night I had to say to them oh we're three months behind on posting the interest entries because we're just doing a lot the volume up in the finance department is great and we're trying to manage with as little staff as possible but I feel like I'm not doing us any favors by not having a backup for me if something were to happen so I hate to ask that at this time but we are covering it through taking savings from other parts of the budget um but it will help us keep things more on time and and maybe allow me to um chain my backup so U so if I'm if I'm calculating this so g91 uh h91 and uh j91 and 91 that's the 60,000 mhm got okay so I mentioned that just cuz that's I saw the first attrition St so all the department heads were very much in support because we support them very strongly we help build their salary budgets and we do a lot of work for them so I was really pleased come here convince us to pay them we do so yes I mean so I was very very impressed that nobody had any issue me taking a they're all they're all pretty smart people I'm in full support as for Sharon she really needs this you know the work out there for extra water bill help last night too yeah we've we've got some extra water bill stuff to I'm like I need got right um and then property sorry ntion savings so how do we create the savings so what happens sometimes especially in in departments that have unions um so if somebody leaves and they're at a higher step and we hire at the lower step you have savings that are just achieved just by by that that transaction happen and also when it happens with retirement a lot of times somebody retires they at the top of the range and then you're replacing them and they start back at one and that savings helps sure okay um so they could have wanted to save it for themselves so I'm very happy that they're willing to invest in me and my department um Property and Casualty Insurance um is it was um 25,000 less than I actually had um estimated because the last couple years have been 10% increase the number actually ended up being a little bit lower so I was happy to see that after after two years of very high increases um it came in under so I'm using that 25,000 towards um funding some of the things that we're looking to change here um extra OT for a migration project for technology um they they have some needs that um are going to require a little bit more overtime have come to the Forefront and so that reduction of the 25,000 um for property casualty will help fund some of that and they're looking to do some much needed technology up upgrades um then we have the attrition savings and then Regional Housing um we are the lead community and like a intermunicipal agreement I think we have we had two communities and we're adding two more but the way that works is that money that comes in that we charge to the other um communities comes in as Revenue but having the added communities increases our expense so we're trying to increase the expense to the level that we'll need to support the for community so that $30,000 is an increase but we will see that coming back to us on the revenue side as well because we build it out to the the the communities that participate veterans assistance was um trending low for this year so I took a little $220,000 away from them the 60,000 we talked about for a permanent position within my group we talked about the attrition um at public um safety um this request was from the school and I don't have anybody here to back it up but but they asked for they had a pilot program where they were doing a compost um composting at one of the schools that was very successful and last year they had asked about rolling it out at all the schools at a cost of 50,000 and I said I put it down November not knowing that we'd be in such a tight spot so this is um an item that's there I'm not sure how you feel about it but it is an environmentally friendly thing to do and and I I hadn't Derek left he was the one kind of brought forward to me and he asked me to make sure it was on the W but then I don't have any of it to really talk to how the program went and all that stuff cuz I'm I don't work on the school side but I left it on here so that we'd all know that that's a need or a want at the school I would I would assume that would from the people who probably best answer aren't here I'm guessing but that that would um you know they would produce less trash yeah it would help us in our I would think our trash ex less tonnage and so that's the way I was thinking would come back accommodated costs over there eventually pay for itself completely but it'll pay for something yeah exactly and and also kind educal benefit educational and it might actually kind show that other people people to do it themselves kids are going to go home and tell their parents to compost and then they like so I love that part so I know it's a big ticket item but that we had agreed to put it there originally was be 18,000 so I think that was the cost of the one school that we had been doing so when I asked about it when when it came up again you had said you'd put this in for November I'm like well how much is it I don't remember it was you know nine months earlier whatever when we were talking about it and the number ended up being 50,000 who negotia that would that be you Chris uh I guess so I would really love if they could bump us up to the 500 number because we're going to do this we're investing this yeah yeah I mean we've talked to them and they won't budge is this going to be is this going to be an annual cost are just a k a Kickstart setup cost so if we do this for the schools is then this going to be a 50k line item for the schools every year it doesn't sound like it really got any I think it will build up the so what we add in November it will build up the base it will probably be there every year that's a good question you got you got to do some setup you got to get the bins they have to figure it out in each yeah I don't know I don't know how much of this is set up though but there's the definitely an added expense every year that will be there 50,000 hopefully not but I don't know the number exactly every now they're going to produce a lot of tonage so this could it could help us when we put our when we put our um collection out to bid um to see that the tonage has gone down because the schools produce a lot I would imagine so just that one effort and then also modeling for the community a way to bring down your trash so um so in the end put the technology stuff might be helpful to describe like what that is like are those like like servers or software technology techology behind yeah I'm both excited to talk about it and apologetic for how gred I'll be so we are about a third of the way through a migration project um that it's taken us about four months to get to this point from a technology standpoint there's really no need to accelerate it but from a risk standpoint there's a great need to accelerate it and um I don't think we really appreciated that we' be doubling our risk during this transition period but it's clear to us that we are um to get on the other side of it um it it makes a lot of sense and my staff is receptive to coming in and you know nice weekends just to get on the other side of this so that's what the overtime line is for is that well is it is it but is related to like we like upgrading like servers like or like software or yep so the um so that's that's the piece for the migration um for the technology upgrade there's two efforts in there one is we we don't have a risk of data loss right now but our ability to recover in a timely manner for a portion of our uh data um would appreciate a service that um is about half of that uh so it's a cloud-based service for data recovery um and speed efficiency um it also gives us some additional insight into our data make sure that we don't have um personal information that is uh stored in a way that is um less than ideal um I I know this I know this is real B but um yeah that's good just make you like on me like add some more text just thought I think it's not knowing what to put yeah I'm a little security related to yeah or something like I guess one thing to say is everything in here is um security risk um I could put something about RIS reduction I guess is a good way to put it for the 25,000 um and there's um two components to that one data recovery portion and that Insight um and then the other part is to um get outside Health to make sure that we are um are protecting or just to get a a sanity check on some of the way that we've protected ourselves and yeah that that's and so that's both our internal infrastructure and some cloudbased services so and if I don't if I going to step in part of the issue is honestly my agency um majority of my agency doesn't work Monday through Friday 9 to 5 um so for the technology to come in and do like the upgrades and um like the um migration they need to come out offside hours to meet with the people that are working straight overnights evenings weekends and stuff so that's part of it they they we don't work the same hours so it's that's part of the need for to for us to get this done they have to physically come in and do some of the migration and like I said overwhelming majority of my department doesn't work a normal a normal schedule Public Safety um you know police fire and DPW they are the um almost exclusively the remaining um portion of the migration effort um so yeah chap clack is right about a certain segment of that if you say if you say security related technology upgrades instead of just technology upgrades I think this goes from a yeah that yeah like a a security Rel no-brainer to whatever's even more sure than a no-brainer okay so yeah shall I continue okay ahead so the um the increases um total 1,52 and the decrease is 806 with a net of 246 from free cash so the extra 1.3 for that school so that that's going to be that's the article you just voted Ved on like um for the school that's the debt authorization so that's what it's going to be confusing and it's probably why I wasn't thinking of it is that article article three amends the capital plan but doesn't fund anything article four but he doesn't fund the ask for in Article 15 more things from right so underwat we have this um water main replacement that I I mentioned I missed on the the capital plan so it wasn't built in when we actually voted the budget and we're going to ask for 560 from um the water reserves for that should I move on to the next one or do you want um um to ask any questions what what we just can I ask question y of the chief so there's no fire track increase on here and I ask this of the select board last night you're feeling pretty good that it's going to come in on truck yeah without any last year um it's it's complete in Wisconsin they're just doing some punchless things it should ship you know next week or so it'll take us about 30 days to get into service equipment needs to be moved over radios lettering and things like that it's a real truck wheels on okay thank you how do how do they ship it they drive it road trip has to make sure that it's Roth not you know w't overheat things like that they drive it from from Wisconsin wow imagine trying to get it on flat it would be so heavy it doesn't have like R elem money yet does it that would look strange that our fire truck is in Wisconsin so um Sharon was asking about how we're going to proceed do we want to vote on these as they go individually um we went by as they go by um just so that again the same rationale for why I suggest we vote on Article 15 at the time was because three and four are pretty tightly coupled so I didn't interrupt you after three um but do we want um shall we vote on three and four now before we uh you know move on to other Financial articles if that allows some of the Personnel here to go home because oh that's also I yeah let's go ahead and vot if we need to you know J for some reason all right so um in that case uh I'm looking for a motion to um uh recommend at the contents of article 3 to town meeting so moved uh yeah as amended oh as as amended indeed I did have to amend it I'm sorry about that article three not article four it's good that they're on the ball because I would so all right okay so that was um probably Zoom lag but I heard Ed for thank you I had to thank you um any discussion before we vote no all right uh Emily y Jeffrey yes Ed Jo Mark yes and Joe caran yes 8 Z all right uh article four um I will entertain a motion to recommend the contents of article four to move to recommend the contents of article 4 as amended uh thank you thank you Emily I think uh sorry was article four amended or actually we're going to add security risk related technology upgrade I wondered about that after I said it too I thought it was amended yeah it's I mean we're better safe than sorry I am going to amend the wording so as well all right sounds good all right then um wait we haven't voted on article four yet though let's do that uh Emily yes sorry full of cookie jealous yeah gonna say next time we get you in person you should bring some right Jeffrey yes Ed yes Joe yes John yes Maran yes Mark yes and Joe yes 8 Z on that one all right moving along article don't have any right now we don't have any prior bills identified so it'll be the usual practice we'll meet a half hour before the meeting or if something comes up I'll I'll definitely let you know and we'll we'll schedu some time gentlemen than youology my email that's so so I don't know you don't have to vote on that one because there's nothing there right um so article six um the 40R smart growth money that comes in um when we get it in um we transfer it to a Smart growth stabilization fund the money last year came in at the end of the fiscal year right after we had had April Tommy I think it came in in May um so this 39,000 needs to be moved into the smart growth stabilization from free cash because that's where it closed into because it comes into the general fund so that's what the substance of article six and seven relates to that and that accepting article 7 will make it so I don't have to ask you to do that or it would automatically the stabilization fund so six and seven were to pass you probably never see this again love put them together yeah no that's they they are related do you want to vote on those two now yeah let's go ahead and um so any questions or discussion about article 647 no all right uh let's so on article 7 it says yes of all or a percentage not less than 25 % is the motion then to move dedicate 100% to the stabilization fund but we always move 100% I'm looking at the text of article 7 says yes or a percentage not l% not less than 25% you're saying we're going to do all oh yeah all okay and and it's we're just saying we're we're allowed to do it without further appropriation which means that should just do it right and I don't have to ask you to do it ex it is confusing language so it's not less than 25% where I haven't checked the way the law is written and so you're just mimicking the Town Council counil language there V to approve the um substance of thank you is there a second second uh Joe do this any further discussion before we vote Emily yeah Jeffrey yes Ed yes Joe yes John yes Maran yes Mark yes and Joe yes all right uh seven vote to um approve move to recomend move to recommend sorry move to recommend the uh substance of article 7 to town meeting so do we actually can you scroll up a little Jackie are we supposed to get a report on this yeah yes we are actually we are both us and by line yeah cuz it's a financial article and it's a local accept and it's like a local so we figured both yeah makes sense so still waiting for us okay thank you Mark second all right um any discussion before we vote all right Emily yes Jeffrey yes Ed yes Joe yes John yes Maran yes Mark yes and Joe yes turn yes so that's 8 Z as well so the substance of article 8 has to do with the opioid settlement fund so um back in 2023 we started to receive funds related to the opioid settlement um and municipality started to receive this money in 2023 but there was no legislation allowing us to set it into its own special revenue account because there it's not like money that we could just take in we actually have requirements behind it we have to actually use it for substance abuse programming um and so the legislation came well after we started to receive funds so when the legislation was approved to set up a special Revenue fund for it um we were able to transfer it was in fiscal 24 anything we'd received that year we could transfer but what we received in fiscal 23 that closed to free cash now I need a vote to move what closed to free cash into this special Revenue fund so that we have it earmarked to be used for substance abuse because it's really not free to us we absolutely have an attachment to do the program com um and so the amount of that is 81,1 157 that closed in 2023 to rec cash so does that essentially go to the Coalition part of Public Safety and and they can expend it without further appropriation because that's the intent of the fund and the way the legislation thank you so is this like a PR distribution or is there more money still to come out of the 900 million I'm not entirely sure I know that we've been getting money since 2023 and every year we're getting money so from different sources so I don't know as each of the like I mean some of them are like pharmacies are settling with us and giving us funding so I don't know when it ends but when we do receive funding we are on the hook to provide sub abuse programming you know to mitigate opioid um abuse support like the stock deliver I'm sorry can it does it have to be like can it the staff of the Coalition that provide that I don't know I could look into that because you know we are because we have a coalition they they are on it and they're doing the programming right away but we're not charging salaries or anything there it's actually the cost of putting together the programming that they've been charging there but it's a good a good question I should see if that's a possibility um because I'm not sure about the answer we getting I mean I can look at the total but this was 81,000 just in fisal 23 I don't remember what's in there right now then going forward this is just a onetime thing like in future years we don't need an article like this no because now they they've kind of made the the way the law is written all money that comes in is general fund Revenue unless otherwise stated so when this money started to come in it had to come into the general fund because there was no legislation allowing you to put it in the special Revenue fund but then the fy4 money did go into this so they made an exception in fiscal 24 to acknowledge this money as um an exception to the general fund Rule and allowing a special Revenue fund yeah but so we only have to do the catch it trailed the year that we started to get it there was one year in which we were legally obliged to do something and it was also legally prohibited from doing it at the same time awesome it was like totally backwards they knew we were going to start receiving the money but set up the legislation you're legally required to set aside and you're not allowed to set it aside now can actually set it aside that makes sense and they told me to close it to free cash and I'm like I sent a d I'm like but it's not free I'm obligated to do something with it it's almost like it's a grant like you really want it in there and they're like you have no other choice so that's why all right any other discussion about article 8 move to recommend the substance of article 8 to meeting second thank you Ed thank you John uh last call for discussion before we vote seeing none uh Emily yep Jeffrey yes Ed yes Joe yes John yes gr yes Mark yes and yes also 8 zero all right oh Haven Street streetcape which I can't say quickly so this is the one that um keeps getting pushed um it was pushed in April and I think it's getting pushed up this yeah so we're going to indepthly postpone it we could talk about it a little tonight um we just don't think the funding is quite baked enough yet um I think Andrew uh McNichol is on the call who's our community development director who could talk a little bit more about it and answer any questions are you on are you on the call Andrew I am here okay here's Andrew so uh so we we did Identify some funds that we could put towards it as Town funds the entire project is million project so it is a large project the town engineer gave a nice overview of the project to the select board um a few meetings ago the select board had some legitimate concerns about it so that gave us pause to go back and look and see what we can do um we do have a a mask Works Grant 2.6 million which is not in jeopardy if we postpone this we're waiting for a federal earmark that could be about 2.5 million which we they told us we really wouldn't hear about until after the election so I think by April April it will be better you know funded will have a better idea on the funding it's still a significant borrowing as ask at this point and given the situation in the town where we're trying to be a little bit more conservative um we can we can pair things back a little bit I wanted to recognize Andrew did you have anything to add to that Andrew's one of the leads on the project my only ad would be this potential to try to explore other grants as well we have the mass Works Grant and we can look at that again and the state just also released um some MBTA communities related grant funding if you're compliant um and streetcape shovel ready projects into that scope at the first read so we think it's just worth the time to um do some more due diligence on the numbers explore some other opportunities and of course look to also rebuild some confidence with um the roadway Commissioners in the select board so so is that the kind of update you were thinking about giving to town meeting as well um yes we we we're going to we're going to ask to postpone it but we can give a little update to town meeting as well yeah because I think that's a pretty positive message that be nice for Tom me to hear what you guys think can I ask a question so I mean I have to confess like even the first time Fidel proposed this I was the one fincom member who voted against it but for different reasons because I was at the time this was before the mosque proposal you know 25 Haven was going to be a 40b and I was just concerned about redoing sidewalks and taking away spots when things were going to be being dug up there with new driveways but I do appreciate that part of this included what um was a safety improvement with relocation of the crosswalks and I don't know is it PO is it possible to still just you know restripe and repaint and do a mini version of that part of it or do you need to have extended the sidewalks out to create the safe Crossings cuz I you know it's it's nice to add trees at the Depot that's kind of a nice to have but I do appreciate safer Crossings could be beneficial now um Chris Cole our DPW director is here maybe crosswalks and that would be cost effective too I mean to put the bump outs in you know really I think it would really be c um not cost effective you know to to put them in because I mean you're talking about it's part of this project too you know running underground conduit for you know future lighting and everything and now you know you may have to dig that area up again you know you just put in so oh all right so you you couldn't put crosswalks in without bump outs you couldn't fix locations of crosswalks with everything is is I'm just talking like a painting job and moving things you can paint crosswalks like better cross like in a better location or no um so just to add some of those a new crosswalks and you would have have to add ramps anyways I believe um so all right looking at the larger picture doing it yeah I assume the sidewalks already had ramps but maybe they're not in the optimal crosswalk location everywhere yeah I think there's a fair amount of Paving involved too myre okay so and I think that they said that did he said there was like Cobblestone or well you know need the Cobblestone no no but it makes it a more extensive project oh I see makes it more expensive maybe just to this point as well for the crosswalks it's helpful too as we move to finish the design and get the actual estimated budget that we can look at things like changing the materials for crosswalks and things like that and look at other cost saving uh techniques so a question please uh uh Andrew quick quick quick question um do you know when we will know uh more about the um MTA Community grants like will you know that before uh town meeting or um or like when does that start to crystalize we wouldn't know before November town meeting um by any means if we are able to comply at November town meeting so my quick reading is that those grants are being made available pretty quickly $5 million per year for the next three years um they didn't seem to have a maximum award I'm not quite sure the turnaround for notice just yet on them and if it's a rolling application no it's a $5 million total with my read it's not too much but at the same time I don't know how many shovel ready projects there are in every Community um that fit the scope so we'd certainly be trying to ask for as much as we can and let them come back with a number to us there is a million could be good you make a pretty compelling case that improving uh you know pedestrian access to the train station is about as close to suppor the spirit oft possi get so I would uh yeah that's U the other thing I not is that um in the debt plan we do have it scheduled as a $4 million debt because we don't know for sure we're getting the grant so if the grant comes in it changes and reduces our debt service and allows us to you know do more capital or is is it a federal live Mark waiting to hear on Yes Federal yeah is there any Stadium marks that no no well we got the massw work Grant and we have that already so that's a guarantee but we get stay another usually the state ear marks aren't for that we could but usually they're a lot less than what you know the federal ear marks are for so the federal be 50k so and your borrowing of just under 4 million that's doesn't include the federal right yeah right so it's holding a spot on our debt plan but we were hoping to hear about the Grant and be able to adjust it I think given the trash and the you know killum and this senior CED a lot of things coming up this is going to be a harder sell to even when it comes up in the spring we'll know more if you got if you got more information in this on grants yeah we can lower the amounts now a million and a half it's a harder cell to commit someone to it now yeah absolutely so if it's getting TBL we not have to vote on it you don't you wouldn't have to vote on just giving more information I I double checked with the town engineer today and he said yeah definitely that's the course of action as well cuz he was sort of the lead on the project so and the SEL and the other thing that they mentioned that we had some other you know areas where we can move funds around from projects that were completed or where it would fit into this project so there's that 1. 1445 62153 that's like funds that he had identified that we would look to transfer so that we wouldn't have to borrow right so that will help and does the town control all the parking spaces and lights of the train station or is that the well there's there's an MBT we have certain there's an MBT lot there um and then not on High Street though is that the one on the other side like is that or I'm not sure mistaken some of the light post might be MBT but we do actually maintain the parking own it and the majority of the lighting fixure is down there MBTA Lots on the other side of the the train track so it's outside right uh yeah this might be a little bit go for finom but if I remember right this area includes where there was the hit and run a few months ago where there was the what there was a hit and run on a on a bike I think Washington Street yes I know it's a dangerous area yeah there was this is being well some of the right but it was not going to be in time for this oh we could talk to the police department in terms of enforcement down there um you know it's an area they watch that whole area around the train station is I mean we we would at least want to if if we didn't get the grant we have the $2.6 million Mass Works Grant so that that's all that High Street area of the project um we would have to probably invest another like 600,000 which they could transfer from one of the other projects and get at least that piece of it done um you know just so we don't lose that Grant want to6 million yeah we're not we're not going to be given back that no that's they gave it to it's our I'm not Yeah well yeah I've walked on there I don't think there are crosswalks intersection there's no there uh yeah not really there's a I think there's a stop sign on High Street but Washington Street there's nothing Direction in that the curve seems like it's kind of designed to drive around as f as you can yes right yeah yeah it's a wide rad for sure okay all right so it doesn't look like so we can do no report then yeah no report on that um though for what it's worth it sounds like the consensus is supportive of indefinite postponement so yeah for sure we got that message no report on the next one yeah uh 13 I think is the next one 150,000 for um invasives B for tree removal and invasive plant management right and that's a request from the uh Town Forest committee and I guess it's phase four we've gone down this road before um they they have a um they did a nice presentation to the select board on this as well and they'll have something for Tom meeting they're going to present it so is this a continuation of what we gave them like 200k of Offa money for we had heard those phases the next phase this is the next phase of it and and from what I'm told it's very very needed in the Town Forest so I'm asking for that is this the last phase I think for removal it was supposed to be yeah but unfortunately it's only getting started on invasive plant management but for tree removal I think this was the last phase yes and so this is likely to just come out of free cash yes that's the yes that would be the ask yep fre cash yeah it says right in the background this is anticipated to be the last major phase dead Tre yes they dead I know I heard that somewhere yeah quite time so we'd want to vote on on this article and I think it's the last one that You' need to vote on already voted on 15 so correct the last one of the night move to recommend the substance of Article 13 to town second thank thank you Jeffrey thank you Ed um if there's you know any further actually I will insert one bit of discussion which is that when I was um reviewing earlier faces of the tree removal wearing my previous hat on conservation uh they gave us a tour between when they marked the trees to be removed when they actually removed and some of the trees were marked to be removed had fallen down since the time they had marked them so that that was a very compelling argument like why like like these trees needed to be taken down so ah all right any other after you're done voting you might want to assign them do you have to assign them I do that's yes yep and then God I'm sadly we're not on the agenda here no all right um all right let's let's move along then um taking a vote on uh motion to recommend Article 13 uh so Emily yes Jeffrey yes Ed yes Joe John yes Maran yes Mark yes and Joe Kahan yes it's also 8 Z all right the other bit of um uh town meeting related business is to assign reports we have seven reports to assign um thanks Chris good night so uh I can uh go around the table um maybe um maybe I'll just go around the table anyone have any is anyone particularly like you know I mean I'm wondering if if our if our uh you know I would like 15 you would are you going to have to are you going to have to arm wrestle Emily for it that's why I said it first that's why I said it first it's funny you say arm wrestle so I'm having shoulder surgery 3 days before town meeting boy so I can't arm wrestle and I will probably be there but I might not be coherent so maybe it's okay very well then for for um so okay so let's let's give that report to uh to Ed then oops and um it sounds like I think you Joe should take the first one me what's the first one again I that's um I mean I don't see why why not I don't have any personal attachment to any of these could have uh I kind of figured if we were voting on Haven Street it would probably be me if we voted in favor and Maran if we voted against because would represent the opinion either way it's a move point so um all right so then um just go around the room uh we'll do uh Joe can do the budget amendments M uh John can do smart growth stabilization fund uh I mean I was going to I was going to spread the love so we you know so six Maran do seven um can do eight uh and uh Jeffrey can do 13 okay who's doing four Joe I'm writing it down just as a backup in case you're it's all right so um all right uh okay in that case I think we are done with everything we need to do in advance town meeting good unless unless bills come in we need to vote on Article 5 but and then we can stick that with andry who's not here we'll stick that with andry see I'm being nice I I'm not just giving work to the guy who unlike the last chair un likee my predecessor who gave me the budget when I was absent it's all right it gave me a chance to actually comment on the budget which I didn't have during the meeting all right so next on our agenda um and this is what um uh another thing that Andrew I know has been patiently hanging around for thank you Andrew to staying on off late that's all right so uh the Eastern Gateway project steering committee uh would you like to talk about what uh looking for there sure I'll for you guys um so back in 2019 the Tom through some additional Grant work had done some conceptual design work with gamble Associates on what we had deemed the Eastern Gateway which was really um is going pull up the map down at the bottom of this document was the industrial Parcels on the south side of the MBTA track which is really the rmld campus and some of the lots and structures in and around it uh obviously in 2019 turned into 2020 priority shifted things got re-evaluated over the next few years um we had re-engaged in 2022 I believe to bring this plan back out into the public realm and say let's refocus on this area because was has continued to be heard as a need to address the industrial Zone area so we submitted some more Grant applications uh last year received a $100,000 housing Choice Grant to address the Eastern Gateway next step and by next step we want to put some finer details into it and also expand uh the area of interest to now span over the tracks include the Market Basket lot in one General way the Stop and Shop and even potential that um Longhorns in B cheese restaurant renting Walker's Brook Drive so this plan and this effort has really just kicked off we just met with the consultant team two weeks back um to officially kick this off with them we start setting goals strategy schedules Etc um the long-term intent of this plan is to engage with the broader Community the whole Community because this is such a large effort to identify the appropriate land uses and also some potential transportation and infrastructure improvements we can start making in this District uh it will put pen to paper in terms of conceptual layouts again over this whole area and what we've heard from rmld We're partnering with them on this is um that they have some needs of their owns in terms of um addressing their facility needs and what they'll need going forward into the next five or 10 years on site so it's a welcome partnership we really want to Lish a steering committee to um get the right people in the room to help ask the right questions and so we started to focus on boards and committees that have uh Keen interest many do but on long-term health of the town and long-term sustainability so planning income Bim it we're likely to expand this to a few more and include some residents as well um but just starting to get The Feelers out there from you guys we wanted to invite you because not only is this a visioning effort but whatever does happen at this site is one of the most transformative areas in the town it's a new growth opportunity land use considerations which of course has tax implications um over the long term so we just want to capture the whole picture here make sure any recommendations that come out of this process are appropriate and right for the entire community and everybody's on board with with them um so that was as brief of a synopsis as I could give those red circles in there are some of the key intersections um if you remember maybe over the LA course of the last year we've been working on the Walker's Brook Corridor redesigned through other Grant work by itself so that those intersection intersections in that work is a little separate but of course of strong consideration in relation to this plan so we'll be working through all of that over the next 12 to 18 months I'm happy to take questions we hope to have you on board I will add the note um there's a potential chance that the Searing committee evolves into the next step um when we had discussed it with cpdc on Monday they had recommended us to think about um the committee maybe taking more of Al a Simmons way exploratory committee approach where the committee might also help lead in the recommendations to select board planning board in the community uh so there's a chance that it takes the next step I have to talk to the project team Town management um flush that out a little bit more so here we are can I so I watched some of this discussion on the cpdc the other night and I appreciated um chair Weston's concern like where that this project was originating Maybe out of the Town side versus out of a committee but one of my questions I mean especially given that you're pointing out traffic in intersections and direction of the town is um it's not to disparage anyone anyone of us having input on the finance committee but it seems like a select board member would be someone who ought to be part of this as much as any of us or in addition to us is there a reason why the select board wasn't included we would like to engage them as a whole if we're going to take the next PATH to make this more of the Simons way like committee um I do think having a select board member specifically on the committee would be a direct benefit uh but we wanted to approach them as a whole as the whole roadway Commissioners with the Project's intents and goals and priorities to make them all aware figure out have the best way to get their feedback um but we're open to all considerations at the this point as we try to formulate these committees and the strategy to approach this plan okay I had a similar question to MaryAnn's because that was sort of the U what jumped out at me in terms of of um forming these committees and who who wasn't there um so yeah I do do yeah that Quick List was not should be exclusive um and only those three yeah so people on the committee have questions yes yes and so what's the actual like deliverable though like after 12 to 18 months it's like more more Vision so the deliverables will be a set of policy recommendations which is mostly zoning in this case to address the land uses identified but also um the drawings and site conceptuals for the entire Parcels both in their connections and how those land uses could play out because with the drawings that might help us look at subd districting or different types of zoning districts over this entire area that we can combine into a um stronger effort and utilize connective connectively together on both sides of this the train tracks here okay thanks so then the next question I suppose I should put to the committee is is anyone interested I see a hand from John all right um is anyone else interested because if no one is then this gets real easy real fast I am but I'll I'll yield to John I I live like I can walk there so I'm secretly interested but also not interested enough to find somebody all right um then funny uh someone asked me about uh voting on things the Committees have to really vote on everything and I actually looked up in the charter and despite the fact that we didn't vote on appointing Jeffrey as our uh representative to the uh the school uh Finance hiring thing the charter specifically says it's byot I forget what you want but one of them specifically says that we should vote on appointments so um uh um I'll entertain a motion to appoint uh uh John Sullivan as the ex officio fincom representative to the Eastern Gateway steering committee so moved thank you Ed thank second from Emily thank you Emily anything before we vote no all right it's late we're moving faster and faster all right Emily yep Jeffrey yes Ed yes a contentious yes Joe yes John yes Maran yes yes Mark Joe caran yes 8 Z all right um okay so um boy oh thank you bye bye K all right um just making a note about that um especially my memory does not get better as 10 p.m. gets closer all right um we go to financial for in 3 weeks um uh so that's the um uh what we've talked about before as far as agenda for that is asking um uh the kilum school building building committee and the um the recal newly form recal building committee for updates on respective projects um uh I don't know if um R Thea on to the kilm school building committee NOS are they going to like cuz you know we just want know what it costs are we going to are we going to have more we might be a little bit closer but we may but it's it we're probably over do for like a where we'll have a lot more information to share I mean we A lot's happened since um uh since we met in spring so um again there's there's still a lot to be you kind of flushed out um you to know any kind of exact cost but we're gonna like we're not we won't be too far after that where we will we will start to know more numbers was there some thought that there was going to be a special town meeting so that we could have an April vote on this related to Kellum or was it still going to be a June vote because then this would be like the last Financial Forum before a special town meeting I think probably more than likely I I I would assume that we would probably have a recommendation do to do another you know kind of ad hoc Forum about it depending whenever it is I I would assume that we would probably have another that would just maybe just in between my ears but that's what I thought I thought we having yeah having another one cuz I think as a community we're probably going to there's already been a ton of Outreach but there'll be just even more and more especially as we get closer to a vote so when is m is the msda going to get back to us at some point you know how we have to present like at the end of this month at the end of this month won't be before this forum at the end of this month we'll know I think it's by the 30th we'll have and I think you know all the body languages at um everything that they we presented I think we presented last week no two weeks ago um and it's you know that that things should be you kind of approved but um we'll know officially I think by the 30th okay well I'm going to say if they could do it on the 30th that would be nice because they' be have some good some good good news to celebrate that evening yeah we might or or at least just to tell them what option it is yeah yes so um although I mean it's we are going to hear about it when we don't talk price just for the record because that's specifically what people have been asking for for a long time but yeah I mean because what happens after from the 30th then we I mean the designers are already moving to schematic design but that's they're front running that you like you really move to schematic design post the 30th you know so um um and then it's with schematic design is when you start to understand more what the cost is going to be right because you'll know you kind of everything from the site you know you then you're going to start to know what type of um you know equipment and everything else that you're going to need in terms of reaching out to that committee to ask for presentation um Ed do you want to do that sure wearing your Lees on that cool yep I mean I assume it'll be you know Carla or somebody give the presentation but um you know whoever wants to um all right uh and then you know I know less about status of recal I think they were had just hired an owner's project manager yeah we just we just entered we entering into a contract with them so that's we we're on boarding the OPM like next week okay can I can I ask a question just and and maybe the public comment was inaccurate but when I listened to the public comment in the select board meeting last night two speakers were kind of implying when they were arguing against moving 80k of of money that there was not enough money to complete that $300,000 study of um you know how ARA gave 300,000 towards the study of the center yes and there were two speakers a Marilyn and a Joanne who were saying that oh yeah they they you know we don't move this money we need it we don't have enough money to finish is that they may have just been make trying to make their own compelling arguments but is that a true statement that we've run out of money on on on the recu plans um not that I not that I'm aware of I did hear the comments last night they were talking about arpa money that we were reallocating and so they were saying don't move it's it's currently under you know Senior Center um I guess they was it the activity the 600 for activities or the 300 for the you know that was the the planning and design part so where was the 80 going to come from well the the the $80,000 that they were talking about you're talking regarding the arpa money yeah sorry maybe it was 108 I miss I miss anyway that money they were they were just saying that the planning for recal y and and was running out of needed the money and was running out of money money so that's not so we're the you know the OPM is being paid for by the permanent building committee okay so that and that that money is there um and we still have money in the original money that we're paying for the architect with that's that's what I it was just they might have been just trying to make I can't speak I think they were thinking I don't know if they were specifically talking about like the actual Senior Center but the programming I thought maybe and that that money I thought we've been kind of encumbering the programming as we've identified and there was a lot of that the last time I looked at a Council on Aging meeting like we weren't burning through that fast at all we were looking for ways to spend it that's yeah that's why they were talking about real right so I think that they're just yeah when I met with she said I think there'll be about 80,000 that I'm not able to spend in time because we have to have an incumber December 31 so that's why smart for the town manager an assistant Town manager to think of another use that would benefit the the intent and plus we have to spend it okay yeah yeah that's exactly right I mean we're not really far far enough along to know that we have something to spend on the senior I just wanted to make sure we you know we really we haven't like spent all the money and then we do need it okay we're still good on that end I mean eventually if we have a project obviously we're going to go and ask for some borrowing but you know that's we're not there yet so so does it make sense to ask um someone to present on recal or do we even know who that I mean so it's the permanent building committee with two additional members is now the recal building committee um you can ask I I mean Mark doxer and Nancy zimac are on that committee now um I think markk boxer presented last time yeah was it John didn't John Sasso present some final report to the select board yeah but John Sasso could do it the last Financial form I think it was Mark D though so so yeah I think I think it's fair to ask um and the OPM is just getting their feet wet but you know maybe they could talk a little as well so I feel like we're repeating the topics of the First Financial Forum or some the theory was that we would we because there was a lot we didn't know at the last Financial Forum right in the library and having these same speakers talking about the same thing did they talk I won't ask Carlo to talk about CPA no well it was the one in a was it August or something no it was in May it was in May right that that whatever that was yeah so I mean the the theory was that we would know a lot more now than we did then and we'd have answers to the questions that people had then and I don't know sounds we're going to know more on well we know more about yeah there's certainly updates on both project I don't know that we have enough to like fill a whole night with you know but we can open it up to comment yeah I mean I mean it was those were the two major and then the CPA is being well you know I me there's not much to there's nothing to report there really there's nothing new on on swc I mean that's Sunset right now yeah that's Sunset yeah and so that's I mean so Simon's way is being looked at for pickle ball and for the senior activity center so yeah right um would we ever consider like rescheduling it like pushing it out a little more I mean would that help would we actually if we delayed it November the financial form November has town meeting in it which is going to be involved I thought for November a potential town meeting is November 12th but I think there was I thought that in the schedule if I remember correctly there was something about November 6th is really the only time there's always a place for us to meet in November in case of last minute warrant things yeah I think I yeah November 6th we have a regular meeting if needed yes that's so we could eliminate the 30th and make the second Financial Forum on the six I guess then do we know what space we would have or not that we we could still have it in town hall that I don't know yeah Jack would be able to tell us which but would would the is is the 30th versus the 6th make a difference yeah I mean if you're getting information on the 30th they'd have time to put it in the presentation I would imagine that's the only thing I was thinking and make sense of it and would have well certified free cash doesn't matter what to you know share yeah we just want to check on rooms CU I know this room generally after the day after the election Laur usually has this you know closed off Financial forms we normally oh yeah we could see if the library is available that would be a better form not that we want the high school our you know live we did that once but wasn't it the audio wasn't great it is it wasn't great in there I think we tend to to call to the library if we can the the public library right right so what I'm hearing here is that November 6th might be better if we can get a room uh on November 6 so that sounds like um uh uh I should follow up with Jackie on room scheduling and then so Jackie could all right I'll follow up with Jackie on room scheduling and then we can pick one of those two dates um all right sorry for being dense would we be flipping them are we intending to meet on the 30th to see like what we might discuss I'm sorry I miss that no I think we wouldn't meet on the 30th regardless and then we' on the 6th and if we needed to do any last minute to meeting business we could also do that on the exactly combine the two but it's I mean I'm trying to look right now at the Library community rooms it's not showing me past 4 p.m. at November six they're they're showing is green I don't know why I can't see got kicked out of the zoom all right that's weird um oh I just lost internet because I think it stops being publicly available at 10 p.m. is that what it is really yep didn't know that you presumably have a pass you know have the password for you can use your phone as a um I can use my phone as a Hotpot I will do exactly that I know and I'm losing his power we're almost done learn something new every you guys have never spent time in this building not as employees so guest uh so I was on was on there was on so there was an RPL one that but let me try town guest to guest I think I don't think okay interesting it must be the RPL one which you know what and that might be like get the RPL one no there is an like for like RPL has hot spots in this building okay um no yeah it's not coming from the building on metal sex all right um it'd be easier to pick up Wii from my house closer um but okay all right well if that works cool yeah I don't know why does the library I'm looking at November 6th does gray mean it's not available book there no idea I don't know like 5:3 8 we'll sort this out tomorrow we're becoming it's after 10 p.m. we're becoming rapidly less effective right all right um are there other topics cuz we're still I mean that's a pretty you know I think that is probably worth having not least because we specifically promised people we would have it um and I'm kind of big on doing what I say uh but are there other topics that we would want to cover in a second Financial forum and leave that open and people can send suggestions too between now and uh whatever we post before I think my brain is checked out I don't know yeah well you you certainly know how to find me you all know where to find me actually so um so yeah please do if you have ideas pass them along um let's see the only thing I'd written down as far as future agendas not necessarily in that Forum because I think I need to follow I want to follow up with Sharon outside of a meeting actually I know you're busy about um uh the way we manage our our cash reserves and the fact that we have um our we have a stabilization fund but we kind of don't a general stabilization fund we don't actually most of our reserves are not in that or in free cash um and so that's a question that there always been that conversation about do we move that 7% to be the stabilization fund and then what's in free cashes um what's really available above the 7% um although we we've talked about 10% is kind of more of an ideal number but I saw that in the the minutes from last time that you were going to ask the Auditors about yeah we haven't talked yet but definitely I did talk to the uh bonding agent that we deal with and she felt that we are viewed as a very strong Community it would probably take several years of adverse Rea you know like you know for us to have bad performance against our budget to actuals to actually consider downgrading us but who knows but she actually did send me and I was going to put it in the packet kind of the S&P guidelines on how they weigh things because I guess they've changed recently so I'll send that to the group um in terms of how they weigh certain factors um and it's not just about your Reserves but also how you attack things like opep and pension liability which were in good standing within you know ahead of schedule for the 2040 um fully funded day for pension and then we have been at the same time making a conscious effort to fund to the best of our ability the opab and have accumulated a good amount of funds towards that even though it doesn't represent much of the liability it's like 13 or 14% there you know 10 or 12 million put aside towards opep um so they look at all those things very positively like the one thing that really hurts communities is the lacking of that kind of desire to fund the UN mandated liability for op yeah all right are there other topics people would like to see in any future meetings I should make a note of here if not not necessarily a topic but um uh having the new Director of Finance and operations for the schools come in and meet with us just so we can put a face to a name little yeah he's he's an interim but he an interim yeah that's a good idea um Can her I definitely can't yeah introduction School Finance director I was actually wondering when Sharon was talking about um uh someone being her backup whether this is someone we should know to or who should know us um oh my my assistant yeah so she's the treasur and she's the assistant CFO we both carry two roles which is part of the problem yes yeah I could have her come and meet yeah I mean I don't you know be nice to have her right I'm I mean I don't want to I'm self-conscious about how often we ask you know you people to come in here not work hours and work like you're doing right now um at the same time though she even come by Zoom just that's true that's true now she could be home with her kids and stuff she's been here three three years now maybe two two years just two two years but in two years I haven't been able to involve around in the budget at all cuz we're that busy so right is it our domain at all to talk about the um Burbank Ice Arena money I know that that's come up at the select board and we came up briefly as a oh could it help pay for you know part of the floor and there's an agreement for what it's used to it's not a consistent amount but community members have reached out to me like one has said oh you know let's let's find some new use for it like for adapt us for us and another one has said well it really needs to go in the main the main fund and we all decide what to do with it it's not a huge amount of money though I think there's like isn't there 425 425 sitting in sitting in that fund but I mean is that like we get a little bit more money from depending on how the formula works out and what they have left over that gets turned over to us as rent I mean grows every year a little bit but it's it's open the contract is kind of you know not not specific that people will discuss intent but is this beyond the scope of what fincom is supposed to do to talk about that money because it keeps bubbling up I I think that's in scope I I was I mean I'm I've talked to probably many of the same people and heard the same opinions um and uh um you know honestly I was kind of waiting for actually we had Carl here tonight I was kind been waiting for him to show up to us at some point because I know he approached yeah he has a lot a lot of thoughts on [Music] approached wck um so I was but I mean we could certainly you know bring up the subject ourselves if like in some future meeting it's not urgent but it would be good to kind of get consistent knowledge and and decisions on it versus everyone speculating on what we can do with it and what we should do with it and what was the intent and I don't know yeah know it didn't sound like there was necessarily a concrete proposal of more like just a floating the idea um um it came up at Rec committee too I think which I mentioned yes no I i' had a chat with um Eric GFF from wck about this um he want to talk to me about it so but I mean if you're just thinking of like rough futureed topics n good good that it dropped off my radar I think it's a good one to to think about for future meetings uh [Music] other topics all right that's plenty of material for future meetings let's move on to uh minutes um I sent a couple of things I sent two things to Jackie um who's probably about to put on the screen um I guess I'll speak for my comments because you can't not look at them um they're not on the screen um I I objected to word couple because uh some people will interpret that literally to mean two and I'm like no no no it didn't mean 2027 I me it could be 2027 or 2028 or 20 99 but those were the you know so several is I mean the performance of each year and how free cash looks is going toate a lot exactly so we don't we don't know enough to be as precise as couple and then um there was just a like a mix up of the number that Shar and you gave for um excess Revenue versus regeneration and so that fixes it to be 4.58 was the excess revenue and or the revenue Beyond projection and so the Regeneration was 7. one which is crazy I hope we keep regenerating at that level then there will be less concerned but like I said there's always things in there that are not expected to continue I mean because I think investment income was like $4 million really high number well no you said a 2.8 million and and it's in the minutes even um uh which is still a bananas amount of money um like for just you know like we're not just about funds the whole High School right we're not like we're not an investment we're very forunate way things come Direction yeah yeah so all right um did anyone else have anything for the minutes I will entertain a motion to approve the uh minutes as amended move to approve the minutes of the September 18th meeting as amended second thank you uh Jeffrey thank you Ed uh any discussion before we vote seeing none Emily yes Jeffrey yes Ed yes Joe yes uh John yes Maran yes Mark yes and Joe carahan yes uh there it says 489 for the ice maybe I'm mistaken I don't know why 425 stuck in my head close enough it's over 400,000 yes all right okay I'm looking for toj motion toj motion toj second sorry I believe thank you motion thank you marann for a second we do have to vote Emily to him I don't want yes thank you everyone we for